Why Pastors Give Terrible Dating Advice

I just said, "Why not go on a FaceTime I just said, "Why not go on a FaceTime date?" I could hear Dr. Cloud in my head date?" I could hear Dr. Cloud in my head date?" I could hear Dr. Cloud in my head be like, "It's just a FaceTime Kate." be like, "It's just a FaceTime Kate." be like, "It's just a FaceTime Kate." >> What is a FaceTime date? >> What is a FaceTime date? >> What is a FaceTime date? >> It's just a date, you know, like a >> It's just a date, you know, like a >> It's just a date, you know, like a FaceTime. Yeah. What is that? Again, FaceTime. Yeah. What is that? Again, FaceTime. Yeah. What is that? Again, this is like educating me. Welcome to this is like educating me. Welcome to this is like educating me. Welcome to the Carrie New Hoff Leadership Podcast. the Carrie New Hoff Leadership Podcast. the Carrie New Hoff Leadership Podcast. So glad you have tuned in, where you're So glad you have tuned in, where you're So glad you have tuned in, where you're watching, where you're listening today. watching, where you're listening today. watching, where you're listening today. Hey, today we're going to talk about Hey, today we're going to talk about Hey, today we're going to talk about something that I know nothing about, something that I know nothing about, something that I know nothing about, which is dating. I have not dated which is dating. I have not dated which is dating. I have not dated [music] Well, you'll find out for a [music] Well, you'll find out for a [music] Well, you'll find out for a long, long time. And I'm like, you know long, long time. And I'm like, you know long, long time. And I'm like, you know what? You know what we do leaders? We what? You know what we do leaders? We what? You know what we do leaders? We talk about it all the time, right? It's talk about it all the time, right? It's talk about it all the time, right? It's like, I got a series on relationships like, I got a series on relationships like, I got a series on relationships coming up. We're going to talk about the coming up. We're going to talk about the coming up. We're going to talk about the gift of singleness. You'll find out why gift of singleness. You'll find out why gift of singleness. You'll find out why that's not a good idea. And uh I've got that's not a good idea. And uh I've got that's not a good idea. And uh I've got two people I thought who could speak two people I thought who could speak two people I thought who could speak into this. Kate and JJ Tomlin are here. into this. Kate and JJ Tomlin are here. into this. Kate and JJ Tomlin are here. Uh they have been through a long history Uh they have been through a long history Uh they have been through a long history of dating themselves. They lead a of dating themselves. They lead a of dating themselves. They lead a powerful ministry uh called The Heart of powerful ministry uh called The Heart of powerful ministry uh called The Heart of Dating, have a top rated podcast, Dating, have a top rated podcast, Dating, have a top rated podcast, bestselling author, all of that. And bestselling author, all of that. And bestselling author, all of that. And [music] my goodness, do we go deep. So [music] my goodness, do we go deep. So [music] my goodness, do we go deep. So get out your notebook, enjoy it. Here's get out your notebook, enjoy it. Here's get out your notebook, enjoy it. Here's my conversation with JJ and Kate Tomlin. my conversation with JJ and Kate Tomlin. my conversation with JJ and Kate Tomlin. JJ, Kate, it's so good to have you here.

JJ, Kate, it's so good to have you here. JJ, Kate, it's so good to have you here. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome. >> Thanks for having us, Carrie. >> Thanks for having us, Carrie. >> Thanks for having us, Carrie. >> We're so honored, man. >> We're so honored, man. >> We're so honored, man. >> Oh, well, listen, I mean, we've been >> Oh, well, listen, I mean, we've been >> Oh, well, listen, I mean, we've been hanging out and I'm like, I got to have hanging out and I'm like, I got to have hanging out and I'm like, I got to have him on the podcast. It's one of those him on the podcast. It's one of those him on the podcast. It's one of those things cuz and here and you guys know things cuz and here and you guys know things cuz and here and you guys know this, but like my thing is, you know, this, but like my thing is, you know, this, but like my thing is, you know, I've taught dating and relationship I've taught dating and relationship I've taught dating and relationship series and literally I haven't dated series and literally I haven't dated series and literally I haven't dated since be I'm going to say before you since be I'm going to say before you since be I'm going to say before you guys were born. guys were born. guys were born. >> Oh my gosh. >> Oh my gosh. >> Oh my gosh. >> All right. I'm not going to date you or >> All right. I'm not going to date you or >> All right. I'm not going to date you or make you say this, but like make you say this, but like make you say this, but like >> I dated in last time and you know Tony, >> I dated in last time and you know Tony, >> I dated in last time and you know Tony, we just we had coffee this morning, we just we had coffee this morning, we just we had coffee this morning, right? The four of us. right? The four of us. right? The four of us. >> 1988 was the last time I went on. >> 1988 was the last time I went on. >> 1988 was the last time I went on. >> I was born in '89. So >> I was born in '89. So >> I was born in '89. So >> 89. See? So before you were born >> 89. See? So before you were born >> 89. See? So before you were born >> 95. This is the thing, right? And you guys This is the thing, right? And you guys aren't kids. You're adults. And so then, aren't kids. You're adults. And so then, aren't kids. You're adults. And so then, you know, a guy my age or even 40 who's you know, a guy my age or even 40 who's you know, a guy my age or even 40 who's been married for 15 years comes out and been married for 15 years comes out and been married for 15 years comes out and he's like, "All right, we're doing our he's like, "All right, we're doing our he's like, "All right, we're doing our relationship series. relationship series. relationship series. >> I just have no idea." And so I thought >> I just have no idea." And so I thought >> I just have no idea." And so I thought I'm going to sit down with JJ and Kate I'm going to sit down with JJ and Kate I'm going to sit down with JJ and Kate and you can educate all of us on what we and you can educate all of us on what we and you can educate all of us on what we don't understand.

don't understand. don't understand. >> Well, it doesn't have to be in February >> Well, it doesn't have to be in February >> Well, it doesn't have to be in February and it doesn't have to be summer 11. So and it doesn't have to be summer 11. So and it doesn't have to be summer 11. So we can just go ahead and help them out we can just go ahead and help them out we can just go ahead and help them out off the get-go. off the get-go. off the get-go. >> Yeah. The one series a year. >> Yeah. The one series a year. >> Yeah. The one series a year. >> You're calling us out on the one series >> You're calling us out on the one series >> You're calling us out on the one series a year. That's in February or summer 11. a year. That's in February or summer 11. a year. That's in February or summer 11. >> It's summer 11 or February. Always. It's >> It's summer 11 or February. Always. It's >> It's summer 11 or February. Always. It's just [laughter] just [laughter] just [laughter] ask. Every pastor is laughing right now ask. Every pastor is laughing right now ask. Every pastor is laughing right now cuz they know like Yep. That is when we cuz they know like Yep. That is when we cuz they know like Yep. That is when we do our February better do better honor do our February better do better honor do our February better do better honor mom on Mother's Day. mom on Mother's Day. mom on Mother's Day. >> That's so funny. >> That's so funny. >> That's so funny. >> Fathers, it's like grab a burger, >> Fathers, it's like grab a burger, >> Fathers, it's like grab a burger, whatever. Yeah. whatever. Yeah. whatever. Yeah. >> So, no, this is interesting. So, you >> So, no, this is interesting. So, you >> So, no, this is interesting. So, you guys have been married three years. Is guys have been married three years. Is guys have been married three years. Is that right? that right? that right? >> Yeah, we're still newlywoods. Really? >> Yeah, we're still newlywoods. Really? >> Yeah, we're still newlywoods. Really? >> But it means I was single a lot longer >> But it means I was single a lot longer >> But it means I was single a lot longer than I've been married. So, I still than I've been married. So, I still than I've been married. So, I still understand that world, maybe even understand that world, maybe even understand that world, maybe even better. [laughter] better. [laughter] better. [laughter] >> And you started a big ministry for >> And you started a big ministry for >> And you started a big ministry for people who are dating. So, give us a people who are dating. So, give us a people who are dating. So, give us a little bit of your backstory. And then little bit of your backstory. And then little bit of your backstory. And then we really want to get into we really want to get into we really want to get into >> what is it like? Like, you know, I'm >> what is it like? Like, you know, I'm >> what is it like? Like, you know, I'm pre-Tinder, pre uh gosh, e-harmony. pre-Tinder, pre uh gosh, e-harmony. pre-Tinder, pre uh gosh, e-harmony. >> That came after my time. Like, it's >> That came after my time. Like, it's >> That came after my time. Like, it's crazy. crazy. crazy. >> E-Harmony is like a dinosaur. >> E-Harmony is like a dinosaur. >> E-Harmony is like a dinosaur. >> We were dating in the in the the what >> We were dating in the in the the what >> We were dating in the in the the what would they call it? The prehistoric era.

would they call it? The prehistoric era. would they call it? The prehistoric era. Um, we didn't even have email. Um, we didn't even have email. Um, we didn't even have email. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> No AOL yet. That's right. No AOL. Did >> No AOL yet. That's right. No AOL. Did >> No AOL yet. That's right. No AOL. Did you Oh, writing letters and phone calls. you Oh, writing letters and phone calls. you Oh, writing letters and phone calls. >> Yes, we would get our quill pens and >> Yes, we would get our quill pens and >> Yes, we would get our quill pens and write in letters write in letters write in letters >> and put it with your Pony Express would >> and put it with your Pony Express would >> and put it with your Pony Express would come by. So funny. come by. So funny. come by. So funny. >> No, I I was doing I did I used a >> No, I I was doing I did I used a >> No, I I was doing I did I used a computer. We met at law school. Tony and computer. We met at law school. Tony and computer. We met at law school. Tony and I met at law school and that was the I met at law school and that was the I met at law school and that was the first degree where I'm like I'm going to first degree where I'm like I'm going to first degree where I'm like I'm going to ditch my typewriter and use a computer. ditch my typewriter and use a computer. ditch my typewriter and use a computer. But and we had a computer. We got But and we had a computer. We got But and we had a computer. We got married in the middle of law school. married in the middle of law school. married in the middle of law school. >> But like there was no internet. It >> But like there was no internet. It >> But like there was no internet. It wasn't hooked up to anything. And then wasn't hooked up to anything. And then wasn't hooked up to anything. And then you had a computer lab that you could go you had a computer lab that you could go you had a computer lab that you could go to the law school. to the law school. to the law school. >> Wait, you had a computer without >> Wait, you had a computer without >> Wait, you had a computer without internet? internet? internet? >> Yeah. How does what what even is that? >> Yeah. How does what what even is that? >> Yeah. How does what what even is that? Right. Right. Right. >> What do you use for taking notes? Is it >> What do you use for taking notes? Is it >> What do you use for taking notes? Is it I don't [laughter] I don't [laughter] I don't [laughter] It's like a virtual question. It's like a virtual question. It's like a virtual question. >> I don't even understand. I don't even >> I don't even understand. I don't even >> I don't even understand. I don't even [laughter] understand. [laughter] understand. [laughter] understand. >> Like this doesn't even compute for me. >> Like this doesn't even compute for me. >> Like this doesn't even compute for me. >> No, I I mean you would just write like >> No, I I mean you would just write like >> No, I I mean you would just write like it was DOSs. It was before Windows and it was DOSs. It was before Windows and it was DOSs. It was before Windows and you would just write documents like you would just write documents like you would just write documents like papers and then print them out on dot papers and then print them out on dot papers and then print them out on dot matrix papers. This I feel like I'm your matrix papers. This I feel like I'm your matrix papers. This I feel like I'm your grandfather now or greatgrandfather grandfather now or greatgrandfather grandfather now or greatgrandfather saying, you know, and then we got the saying, you know, and then we got the saying, you know, and then we got the horse out of the barn, but it wasn't horse out of the barn, but it wasn't horse out of the barn, but it wasn't that far from getting the horse out of that far from getting the horse out of that far from getting the horse out of the barn.

the barn. the barn. >> I'm not obviously your age. However, I >> I'm not obviously your age. However, I >> I'm not obviously your age. However, I do find it funny because in the '9s, you do find it funny because in the '9s, you do find it funny because in the '9s, you know, we I grew up mainly in the '90s know, we I grew up mainly in the '90s know, we I grew up mainly in the '90s and the floppy disc and all of that. And and the floppy disc and all of that. And and the floppy disc and all of that. And you show that to a Gen Zer now and you show that to a Gen Zer now and you show that to a Gen Zer now and they're like, "What is what even is they're like, "What is what even is they're like, "What is what even is that? that? that? >> What is that? What is that? When it went >> What is that? What is that? When it went >> What is that? What is that? When it went from the big floppy to the small floppy. from the big floppy to the small floppy. from the big floppy to the small floppy. That was a big That was a big That was a big >> Or have you seen them try to make Jenzie >> Or have you seen them try to make Jenzie >> Or have you seen them try to make Jenzie kids dial on like the the roller kids dial on like the the roller kids dial on like the the roller >> telephone? They can't they can't figure >> telephone? They can't they can't figure >> telephone? They can't they can't figure it out. it out. it out. >> You don't remember rotary phones? It was >> You don't remember rotary phones? It was >> You don't remember rotary phones? It was always fun when your friends had lower always fun when your friends had lower always fun when your friends had lower digit phone numbers cuz it was like digit phone numbers cuz it was like digit phone numbers cuz it was like 9790986. >> Took forever to call them. [laughter] >> Took forever to call them. [laughter] >> It's like 3231129. >> It's like 3231129. >> It's like 3231129. That was fine. But yeah, anyway, stuff. That was fine. But yeah, anyway, stuff. That was fine. But yeah, anyway, stuff. I've just dated myself. But tell us I've just dated myself. But tell us I've just dated myself. But tell us enough enough about me and my enough enough about me and my enough enough about me and my prehistoricness. What about you? Uh, prehistoricness. What about you? Uh, prehistoricness. What about you? Uh, tell me about you guys. You dated for a tell me about you guys. You dated for a tell me about you guys. You dated for a long time. You've been married three long time. You've been married three long time. You've been married three years. years. years. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> You have a beautiful daughter. Yes. >> You have a beautiful daughter. Yes. >> You have a beautiful daughter. Yes. >> Who we shared some time with and I >> Who we shared some time with and I >> Who we shared some time with and I shared a cushon with this morning. shared a cushon with this morning. shared a cushon with this morning. >> She was so cute. Yeah. Well, I mean, >> She was so cute. Yeah. Well, I mean, >> She was so cute. Yeah. Well, I mean, speaking of like the digital age and speaking of like the digital age and speaking of like the digital age and computers, we met on a Zoom call.

computers, we met on a Zoom call. computers, we met on a Zoom call. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> In the middle of co >> In the middle of co >> In the middle of co >> Oh, wow. >> Oh, wow. >> Oh, wow. >> That's how we met. Uh, it was a >> That's how we met. Uh, it was a >> That's how we met. Uh, it was a Gallentine's virtual conference. Gallentine's virtual conference. Gallentine's virtual conference. >> Valentine's >> Valentine's >> Valentine's >> with five. >> with five. >> with five. >> Why was JJ at a Gallentine's event? >> Why was JJ at a Gallentine's event? >> Why was JJ at a Gallentine's event? >> Uhuh. This is interesting. >> Uhuh. This is interesting. >> Uhuh. This is interesting. >> Yeah, it's a good question. Tell us >> Yeah, it's a good question. Tell us >> Yeah, it's a good question. Tell us more. more. more. >> And uh, but Kate had already been >> And uh, but Kate had already been >> And uh, but Kate had already been running hard of dating, which I'll let running hard of dating, which I'll let running hard of dating, which I'll let you start with. You're running hard of you start with. You're running hard of you start with. You're running hard of dating for how long now and why? dating for how long now and why? dating for how long now and why? >> Yeah, at that point it was probably at >> Yeah, at that point it was probably at >> Yeah, at that point it was probably at least four years. It's been around eight least four years. It's been around eight least four years. It's been around eight years now. So I started single and I years now. So I started single and I years now. So I started single and I started it very interesting to be a started it very interesting to be a started it very interesting to be a single person running a dating ministry single person running a dating ministry single person running a dating ministry becoming a dating coach and then trying becoming a dating coach and then trying becoming a dating coach and then trying to date you know but I started heart of to date you know but I started heart of to date you know but I started heart of dating really from a prompting from the dating really from a prompting from the dating really from a prompting from the Lord because I felt him leading me to it Lord because I felt him leading me to it Lord because I felt him leading me to it I didn't want to be this singer single I didn't want to be this singer single I didn't want to be this singer single girl talking about dating but to our girl talking about dating but to our girl talking about dating but to our point of the you know one series a year point of the you know one series a year point of the you know one series a year relationship series I was in a season of relationship series I was in a season of relationship series I was in a season of my life of dating all the wrong ways and my life of dating all the wrong ways and my life of dating all the wrong ways and wanting to date the right way and I just wanting to date the right way and I just wanting to date the right way and I just couldn't find that many good resources couldn't find that many good resources couldn't find that many good resources for Christian dating. I was like, I'm a for Christian dating. I was like, I'm a for Christian dating. I was like, I'm a single. I've done this the wrong way. I single. I've done this the wrong way. I single. I've done this the wrong way. I want to do this right. I want to want to do this right. I want to want to do this right. I want to actually enjoy it and not put so much actually enjoy it and not put so much actually enjoy it and not put so much pressure on it.

pressure on it. pressure on it. >> And I just couldn't, you know, I I >> And I just couldn't, you know, I I >> And I just couldn't, you know, I I listened to all those sermons speaking listened to all those sermons speaking listened to all those sermons speaking of the Uber relationship, but I did not of the Uber relationship, but I did not of the Uber relationship, but I did not find enough not enough books, not enough find enough not enough books, not enough find enough not enough books, not enough podcasts, not enough um content as for podcasts, not enough um content as for podcasts, not enough um content as for dating as a Christian. dating as a Christian. dating as a Christian. >> And so the Lord led me to start this >> And so the Lord led me to start this >> And so the Lord led me to start this podcast. Didn't really think anything of podcast. Didn't really think anything of podcast. Didn't really think anything of it. ended up being so passionate about it. ended up being so passionate about it. ended up being so passionate about it, becoming a dating coach myself and it, becoming a dating coach myself and it, becoming a dating coach myself and releasing a book and all of that. And I releasing a book and all of that. And I releasing a book and all of that. And I just, it's such a joy. We love getting just, it's such a joy. We love getting just, it's such a joy. We love getting to serve singles. But as I was doing to serve singles. But as I was doing to serve singles. But as I was doing that is when I met JJ, who you know that is when I met JJ, who you know that is when I met JJ, who you know always had a dream of dating a dating always had a dream of dating a dating always had a dream of dating a dating coach, obviously. [laughter] coach, obviously. [laughter] coach, obviously. [laughter] >> You showed up in your camo hat. >> You showed up in your camo hat. >> You showed up in your camo hat. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Yeah, exactly. >> It's like, all right, how did you end up >> It's like, all right, how did you end up >> It's like, all right, how did you end up on Gallentine's? Well, well, and fun on Gallentine's? Well, well, and fun on Gallentine's? Well, well, and fun fact, uh, since like you have a lot of fact, uh, since like you have a lot of fact, uh, since like you have a lot of leaders here, Kate ran an independent leaders here, Kate ran an independent leaders here, Kate ran an independent study about Christian dating books and study about Christian dating books and study about Christian dating books and Christian books on marriage. And for Christian books on marriage. And for Christian books on marriage. And for every 350 books on marriage, there's one every 350 books on marriage, there's one every 350 books on marriage, there's one for dating. for dating. for dating. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> 350 to one. >> 350 to one. >> 350 to one. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's either 300 or 350, but it's it's a >> It's either 300 or 350, but it's it's a >> It's either 300 or 350, but it's it's a it's like it's like it's like >> Yeah, there's not a lot. There's a lot >> Yeah, there's not a lot. There's a lot >> Yeah, there's not a lot. There's a lot of marriage content out there, of marriage content out there, of marriage content out there, >> man. Granted, like, we don't want to >> man. Granted, like, we don't want to >> man. Granted, like, we don't want to make dating this longer than it ever make dating this longer than it ever make dating this longer than it ever should be. Uh, but we want to be as should be. Uh, but we want to be as should be. Uh, but we want to be as helpful as possible. uh especially now helpful as possible. uh especially now helpful as possible. uh especially now with the church and the demographics with the church and the demographics with the church and the demographics which we'll talk about but I mean we're which we'll talk about but I mean we're which we'll talk about but I mean we're more single now than ever before.

more single now than ever before. more single now than ever before. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> As a country and and the church like >> As a country and and the church like >> As a country and and the church like they've followed each other in the same they've followed each other in the same they've followed each other in the same trend but um so I was on the the trend but um so I was on the the trend but um so I was on the the Gallentine's call in the middle zoom. Uh Gallentine's call in the middle zoom. Uh Gallentine's call in the middle zoom. Uh >> how do [laughter] you got to answer >> how do [laughter] you got to answer >> how do [laughter] you got to answer that? How did you end up on that call? that? How did you end up on that call? that? How did you end up on that call? >> So it's a friend they are running their >> So it's a friend they are running their >> So it's a friend they are running their ministry amazing ministry called Delight ministry amazing ministry called Delight ministry amazing ministry called Delight and u I was actually doing a blind date and u I was actually doing a blind date and u I was actually doing a blind date as an icebreaker. these girls, 500 girls as an icebreaker. these girls, 500 girls as an icebreaker. these girls, 500 girls could apply to go on a date with him. could apply to go on a date with him. could apply to go on a date with him. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And >> And >> And >> not all 500 girls in front of 500 girls. >> not all 500 girls in front of 500 girls. >> not all 500 girls in front of 500 girls. >> I think maybe I think maybe two did a >> I think maybe I think maybe two did a >> I think maybe I think maybe two did a Zoom date. A Zoom date. Yeah. So I made Zoom date. A Zoom date. Yeah. So I made Zoom date. A Zoom date. Yeah. So I made Kate on the pre-all like organizing and Kate on the pre-all like organizing and Kate on the pre-all like organizing and everything everything everything >> and uh >> and uh >> and uh >> I was immediately like blown away. I'm >> I was immediately like blown away. I'm >> I was immediately like blown away. I'm like this is the most beautiful 4x6 like this is the most beautiful 4x6 like this is the most beautiful 4x6 pixel woman I've ever seen. pixel woman I've ever seen. pixel woman I've ever seen. >> Oh. So I saw she you were like who is >> Oh. So I saw she you were like who is >> Oh. So I saw she you were like who is this? like a Zoom call with like six this? like a Zoom call with like six this? like a Zoom call with like six random people and I'm like, "Who's random people and I'm like, "Who's random people and I'm like, "Who's this?" this?" this?" >> Um, but then, you know, I was at a place >> Um, but then, you know, I was at a place >> Um, but then, you know, I was at a place in my dating life where I was not asking in my dating life where I was not asking in my dating life where I was not asking out women just based off how hot they out women just based off how hot they out women just based off how hot they were. Long story short, I want to know were. Long story short, I want to know were. Long story short, I want to know their character and their faith before I their character and their faith before I their character and their faith before I I would go out on a date with them just I would go out on a date with them just I would go out on a date with them just because because because >> I I didn't really have the character to >> I I didn't really have the character to >> I I didn't really have the character to go out with a a woman who was beautiful go out with a a woman who was beautiful go out with a a woman who was beautiful uh but didn't love God and I just wasn't uh but didn't love God and I just wasn't uh but didn't love God and I just wasn't responsible enough in those situations.

responsible enough in those situations. responsible enough in those situations. So, so I see Kate. I'm like, "Okay, So, so I see Kate. I'm like, "Okay, So, so I see Kate. I'm like, "Okay, great. She's just a beautiful girl, but great. She's just a beautiful girl, but great. She's just a beautiful girl, but that's all I know about her." I go on my that's all I know about her." I go on my that's all I know about her." I go on my date and uh she was like a great sister date and uh she was like a great sister date and uh she was like a great sister in Christ, but I was I was a little in Christ, but I was I was a little in Christ, but I was I was a little >> distracted. You were like, "Hey, hey, >> distracted. You were like, "Hey, hey, >> distracted. You were like, "Hey, hey, hey, who's that in uh you know, hey, who's that in uh you know, hey, who's that in uh you know, [clears throat] [clears throat] [clears throat] >> square number four?" >> square number four?" >> square number four?" Thinking that she's watching me, you Thinking that she's watching me, you Thinking that she's watching me, you know, blah blah blah. know, blah blah blah. know, blah blah blah. >> I wasn't watching at all. >> I wasn't watching at all. >> I wasn't watching at all. >> She wasn't [laughter] watching at all. >> She wasn't [laughter] watching at all. >> She wasn't [laughter] watching at all. She completely forgot about me. She completely forgot about me. She completely forgot about me. >> Camera off. I don't even remember >> Camera off. I don't even remember >> Camera off. I don't even remember meeting him. I'm just preparing for my meeting him. I'm just preparing for my meeting him. I'm just preparing for my talk behind the scenes call. I finish my talk behind the scenes call. I finish my talk behind the scenes call. I finish my day, they invite us to stay on the call. day, they invite us to stay on the call. day, they invite us to stay on the call. I'm like, why would I do that? And then I'm like, why would I do that? And then I'm like, why would I do that? And then I changed my name to like Emily and turn I changed my name to like Emily and turn I changed my name to like Emily and turn off my camera so I can actually listen off my camera so I can actually listen off my camera so I can actually listen to Kate cuz I'm just interested. to Kate cuz I'm just interested. to Kate cuz I'm just interested. >> And so I hang around and I listen and uh >> And so I hang around and I listen and uh >> And so I hang around and I listen and uh I I just loved what she talked about. I I just loved what she talked about. I I just loved what she talked about. She talked about self-hatred, her story She talked about self-hatred, her story She talked about self-hatred, her story of abuse, and just basically who she had of abuse, and just basically who she had of abuse, and just basically who she had become in Christ. So just character, become in Christ. So just character, become in Christ. So just character, character, character, and I that's what character, character, and I that's what character, character, and I that's what I really fell in love with. um asked I really fell in love with. um asked I really fell in love with. um asked organizers to set me up and they organizers to set me up and they organizers to set me up and they basically I know it's hard to believe by basically I know it's hard to believe by basically I know it's hard to believe by looking at me. They had to convince Kate looking at me. They had to convince Kate looking at me. They had to convince Kate to say yes to say yes to say yes >> because >> because >> because >> you gota understand Carrie, you know >> you gota understand Carrie, you know >> you gota understand Carrie, you know this version of JJ back then he had blue this version of JJ back then he had blue this version of JJ back then he had blue hair and weird style and his Instagram hair and weird style and his Instagram hair and weird style and his Instagram was like a different hairstyle every was like a different hairstyle every was like a different hairstyle every photo and photo and photo and >> you know and he was younger than me so I >> you know and he was younger than me so I >> you know and he was younger than me so I was like I don't know there's not a lot was like I don't know there's not a lot was like I don't know there's not a lot going for him. Is that six years between going for him. Is that six years between going for him. Is that six years between you guys?

you guys? you guys? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Wow. Pretty big. >> Wow. Pretty big. >> Wow. Pretty big. >> So that's interesting. You know that's >> So that's interesting. You know that's >> So that's interesting. You know that's one thing we have in common. I was at one thing we have in common. I was at one thing we have in common. I was at law school. Tony was at law school. You law school. Tony was at law school. You law school. Tony was at law school. You don't know anybody at law school. It's don't know anybody at law school. It's don't know anybody at law school. It's 900 students at our particular school in 900 students at our particular school in 900 students at our particular school in Toronto. And I was lining up. That's all Toronto. And I was lining up. That's all Toronto. And I was lining up. That's all you do in the first week of law school you do in the first week of law school you do in the first week of law school is line up for class, line up for books, is line up for class, line up for books, is line up for class, line up for books, line up for this, line up for that. And line up for this, line up for that. And line up for this, line up for that. And she walked into the quad. It was like a she walked into the quad. It was like a she walked into the quad. It was like a shaft of light came from heaven. shaft of light came from heaven. shaft of light came from heaven. [laughter] I saw her and it was like, [laughter] I saw her and it was like, [laughter] I saw her and it was like, >> yes. >> yes. >> yes. >> I'm like, who is this the most beautiful >> I'm like, who is this the most beautiful >> I'm like, who is this the most beautiful woman I've ever laid eyes on in my life? woman I've ever laid eyes on in my life? woman I've ever laid eyes on in my life? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And then it was like pursuit. That was >> And then it was like pursuit. That was >> And then it was like pursuit. That was it. So it. So it. So >> yeah, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> but that's funny. You >> but that's funny. You >> but that's funny. You >> the same for Tony, though. I no she >> the same for Tony, though. I no she >> the same for Tony, though. I no she totally did not know who I was. Uh she totally did not know who I was. Uh she totally did not know who I was. Uh she did not have a reciprocal experience of did not have a reciprocal experience of did not have a reciprocal experience of me. [laughter] I was one of it was me. [laughter] I was one of it was me. [laughter] I was one of it was 50/50. I was one of 450 guys. 50/50. I was one of 450 guys. 50/50. I was one of 450 guys. >> She didn't even care. I used to stare at >> She didn't even care. I used to stare at >> She didn't even care. I used to stare at her in class. And finally one of her her in class. And finally one of her her in class. And finally one of her person her early friends in law school person her early friends in law school person her early friends in law school who was sitting beside her is like that who was sitting beside her is like that who was sitting beside her is like that boy keeps staring at you. I think he boy keeps staring at you. I think he boy keeps staring at you. I think he likes you. It's like you know you can likes you. It's like you know you can likes you. It's like you know you can probably get arrested for that.

probably get arrested for that. probably get arrested for that. >> Yeah [laughter] probably. But I was just >> Yeah [laughter] probably. But I was just >> Yeah [laughter] probably. But I was just staring at her a lot and then I got to staring at her a lot and then I got to staring at her a lot and then I got to know her and all that. know her and all that. know her and all that. >> You have to do it on a Zoom call cuz >> You have to do it on a Zoom call cuz >> You have to do it on a Zoom call cuz then they can't tell. then they can't tell. then they can't tell. >> That's the secret. [laughter] >> That's the secret. [laughter] >> That's the secret. [laughter] >> You don't know. You don't know what >> You don't know. You don't know what >> You don't know. You don't know what square you. square you. square you. >> You can just gawk and stare. Yeah. >> You can just gawk and stare. Yeah. >> You can just gawk and stare. Yeah. Exactly. And stare. Yeah. Exactly. And stare. Yeah. Exactly. And stare. Yeah. >> So we um Kate barely says yes cuz she's >> So we um Kate barely says yes cuz she's >> So we um Kate barely says yes cuz she's doing the Dr. Cloud dating challenge. doing the Dr. Cloud dating challenge. doing the Dr. Cloud dating challenge. >> Oh. Which is what? Henry was just here. >> Oh. Which is what? Henry was just here. >> Oh. Which is what? Henry was just here. >> Yeah. So we and we saw him earlier >> Yeah. So we and we saw him earlier >> Yeah. So we and we saw him earlier today. He So his book changed my life. today. He So his book changed my life. today. He So his book changed my life. How to get get a date worth keeping. How to get get a date worth keeping. How to get get a date worth keeping. It's very old book, but it's still It's very old book, but it's still It's very old book, but it's still impacting people. So for me, the dating impacting people. So for me, the dating impacting people. So for me, the dating challenge and how I applied his dating challenge and how I applied his dating challenge and how I applied his dating challenge was, "Hey, go out challenge was, "Hey, go out challenge was, "Hey, go out non-exclusively with people. Just go on non-exclusively with people. Just go on non-exclusively with people. Just go on dates. Don't make it a big deal." dates. Don't make it a big deal." dates. Don't make it a big deal." >> So it's not like, "Hey, I found you. >> So it's not like, "Hey, I found you. >> So it's not like, "Hey, I found you. You're it." You're it." You're it." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> And that was good for me because I had >> And that was good for me because I had >> And that was good for me because I had previously been the girl that hyper previously been the girl that hyper previously been the girl that hyper committed really fast. And you know, in committed really fast. And you know, in committed really fast. And you know, in the church lingo, that's called the church lingo, that's called the church lingo, that's called intentional. Right. intentional. Right. intentional. Right. >> Right. I'm courting, not exactly. >> Right. I'm courting, not exactly. >> Right. I'm courting, not exactly. >> I'm being super intentional. I'm >> I'm being super intentional. I'm >> I'm being super intentional. I'm pursuing them. Right. These are all pursuing them. Right. These are all pursuing them. Right. These are all words we use in the Christian world that words we use in the Christian world that words we use in the Christian world that secular people have no idea. Pursuit secular people have no idea. Pursuit secular people have no idea. Pursuit intentional. They're like what? Like intentional. They're like what? Like intentional. They're like what? Like guard her heart. None of that makes guard her heart. None of that makes guard her heart. None of that makes sense to somebody who's not Christian.

sense to somebody who's not Christian. sense to somebody who's not Christian. But for me, I it got me in a lot of bad But for me, I it got me in a lot of bad But for me, I it got me in a lot of bad places because I would hyper commit to places because I would hyper commit to places because I would hyper commit to the wrong person. the wrong person. the wrong person. >> So you spent three hours with this >> So you spent three hours with this >> So you spent three hours with this person. It's like this is the one. And person. It's like this is the one. And person. It's like this is the one. And now I'm a hopeless romantic. I'm now I'm a hopeless romantic. I'm now I'm a hopeless romantic. I'm infatuated. I want them to like me. I'm infatuated. I want them to like me. I'm infatuated. I want them to like me. I'm going to perform to get them to like me. going to perform to get them to like me. going to perform to get them to like me. All these things. And so met Dr. Cloud. All these things. And so met Dr. Cloud. All these things. And so met Dr. Cloud. He was like, "You need to do my dating He was like, "You need to do my dating He was like, "You need to do my dating challenge." I started it. He actually challenge." I started it. He actually challenge." I started it. He actually set me up with a different guy and I I set me up with a different guy and I I set me up with a different guy and I I went out with that guy, a few other went out with that guy, a few other went out with that guy, a few other guys. So, by the time JJ came on the guys. So, by the time JJ came on the guys. So, by the time JJ came on the scene, I was talking to three guys and scene, I was talking to three guys and scene, I was talking to three guys and just going on dates casually. They all just going on dates casually. They all just going on dates casually. They all were aware of it and nothing was were aware of it and nothing was were aware of it and nothing was serious. So, I wasn't really looking to, serious. So, I wasn't really looking to, serious. So, I wasn't really looking to, this sounds horrible, add another guy to this sounds horrible, add another guy to this sounds horrible, add another guy to my roster. Okay. Um, I was just like, my roster. Okay. Um, I was just like, my roster. Okay. Um, I was just like, I'm good. My book's coming out. A lot is I'm good. My book's coming out. A lot is I'm good. My book's coming out. A lot is going on. Three guys. This is great. And going on. Three guys. This is great. And going on. Three guys. This is great. And what year is this? This roughly what year is this? This roughly what year is this? This roughly >> 2021. >> 2021. >> 2021. >> Oh, wow. This is like recent history. >> Oh, wow. This is like recent history. >> Oh, wow. This is like recent history. >> Yeah. Yes. Um, and so when JJ came on >> Yeah. Yes. Um, and so when JJ came on >> Yeah. Yes. Um, and so when JJ came on this, I was like, I don't know. I'm this, I was like, I don't know. I'm this, I was like, I don't know. I'm already kind of talking to these guys. already kind of talking to these guys. already kind of talking to these guys. I'm busy. Younger guy, blue hair. So, it I'm busy. Younger guy, blue hair. So, it I'm busy. Younger guy, blue hair. So, it was just a lot of like, I'm not sure.

was just a lot of like, I'm not sure. was just a lot of like, I'm not sure. And I just said, why not go on a And I just said, why not go on a And I just said, why not go on a FaceTime date? I could hear Dr. Cloud in FaceTime date? I could hear Dr. Cloud in FaceTime date? I could hear Dr. Cloud in my head be like, it's just a FaceTime my head be like, it's just a FaceTime my head be like, it's just a FaceTime Kate. Kate. Kate. >> What is a FaceTime? >> What is a FaceTime? >> What is a FaceTime? >> It's just a date. You know, like Yeah. >> It's just a date. You know, like Yeah. >> It's just a date. You know, like Yeah. What is that? Again, this is like way to What is that? Again, this is like way to What is that? Again, this is like way to educate me. educate me. educate me. >> It's helpful. I mean, longdistance >> It's helpful. I mean, longdistance >> It's helpful. I mean, longdistance dating is more popular now than ever dating is more popular now than ever dating is more popular now than ever before. And it's just as like, hey, we before. And it's just as like, hey, we before. And it's just as like, hey, we met. You live in Canada. I'm in met. You live in Canada. I'm in met. You live in Canada. I'm in Tennessee, but you're awesome. Tennessee, but you're awesome. Tennessee, but you're awesome. >> And you have great recommendations. Why >> And you have great recommendations. Why >> And you have great recommendations. Why should that stop us from getting to know should that stop us from getting to know should that stop us from getting to know each other? So, tomorrow, how does 7:00 each other? So, tomorrow, how does 7:00 each other? So, tomorrow, how does 7:00 p.m. I'll Uber eat you some dinner? And p.m. I'll Uber eat you some dinner? And p.m. I'll Uber eat you some dinner? And we just we just we just >> FaceTime. >> FaceTime. >> FaceTime. >> Okay, cool. So the old telephone combo >> Okay, cool. So the old telephone combo >> Okay, cool. So the old telephone combo thing, you know that. thing, you know that. thing, you know that. >> So FaceTime, FaceTime date. So you went >> So FaceTime, FaceTime date. So you went >> So FaceTime, FaceTime date. So you went on a FaceTime date. Yeah. on a FaceTime date. Yeah. on a FaceTime date. Yeah. >> And was that because you were in >> And was that because you were in >> And was that because you were in different cities? different cities? different cities? >> Yeah, we lived different places. >> Yeah, we lived different places. >> Yeah, we lived different places. >> Seattle. >> Seattle. >> Seattle. >> You were in Seattle. Okay. You were in >> You were in Seattle. Okay. You were in >> You were in Seattle. Okay. You were in Seattle. Seattle. Seattle. >> California. >> California. >> California. >> California. >> California. >> California. >> If you were both in California, would >> If you were both in California, would >> If you were both in California, would you have gone on a date date or would you have gone on a date date or would you have gone on a date date or would you Okay. Okay. So FaceTime is more just you Okay. Okay. So FaceTime is more just you Okay. Okay. So FaceTime is more just for long distance.

for long distance. for long distance. >> And you're not going to fly to another >> And you're not going to fly to another >> And you're not going to fly to another city. city. city. >> Not on a first date. >> Not on a first date. >> Not on a first date. >> Exactly. But yeah, okay, I get it. I get >> Exactly. But yeah, okay, I get it. I get >> Exactly. But yeah, okay, I get it. I get it. I really am like I'm as dumb as it. I really am like I'm as dumb as it. I really am like I'm as dumb as bricks when it comes to dating. I have I bricks when it comes to dating. I have I bricks when it comes to dating. I have I So, I'm going to ask all kinds of So, I'm going to ask all kinds of So, I'm going to ask all kinds of question. question. question. >> And this is more popular now. I mean, >> And this is more popular now. I mean, >> And this is more popular now. I mean, like people are more open to dating with like people are more open to dating with like people are more open to dating with remote work. That really changed a lot remote work. That really changed a lot remote work. That really changed a lot of it. of it. of it. >> 100%. Yeah. >> 100%. Yeah. >> 100%. Yeah. >> One or both people now can get up any >> One or both people now can get up any >> One or both people now can get up any second second second >> because you can work somewhere else for >> because you can work somewhere else for >> because you can work somewhere else for a week and it's fine. You're still a week and it's fine. You're still a week and it's fine. You're still >> So, and also just, you know, for all the >> So, and also just, you know, for all the >> So, and also just, you know, for all the leaders, pastors listening, you know, leaders, pastors listening, you know, leaders, pastors listening, you know, online dating is huge. 50% or more of online dating is huge. 50% or more of online dating is huge. 50% or more of people are still meeting online, people are still meeting online, people are still meeting online, including Christians. And so with online including Christians. And so with online including Christians. And so with online dating comes more long distance because dating comes more long distance because dating comes more long distance because yeah if you extend your radius then yeah if you extend your radius then yeah if you extend your radius then you're open you're open you're open >> only in my post only in my zip code. >> only in my post only in my zip code. >> only in my post only in my zip code. This episode is brought to you by my This episode is brought to you by my This episode is brought to you by my fund the future master class. So you fund the future master class. So you fund the future master class. So you cast vision every week as a pastor you cast vision every week as a pastor you cast vision every week as a pastor you preach with clarity but when it comes to preach with clarity but when it comes to preach with clarity but when it comes to funding your church a lot of leaders hit funding your church a lot of leaders hit funding your church a lot of leaders hit a wall. And if that's you I want you to a wall. And if that's you I want you to a wall. And if that's you I want you to know it's not your fault. you've been know it's not your fault. you've been know it's not your fault. you've been doing the work probably without a proven doing the work probably without a proven doing the work probably without a proven framework to grow generosity, fuel framework to grow generosity, fuel framework to grow generosity, fuel vision, or even fully fund your vision, or even fully fund your vision, or even fully fund your ministry. And that's exactly why I ministry. And that's exactly why I ministry. And that's exactly why I teamed up with some of today's top teamed up with some of today's top teamed up with some of today's top leaders, people you know who have been leaders, people you know who have been leaders, people you know who have been on this podcast, who bring you the Fund on this podcast, who bring you the Fund on this podcast, who bring you the Fund the Future Master Class. Inside this the Future Master Class. Inside this the Future Master Class. Inside this program, you're going to learn from program, you're going to learn from program, you're going to learn from Craig Rashelle. Craig's going to help Craig Rashelle. Craig's going to help Craig Rashelle. Craig's going to help you think bigger and believe God for you think bigger and believe God for you think bigger and believe God for more. You'll hear from Chris Hodes who more. You'll hear from Chris Hodes who more. You'll hear from Chris Hodes who breaks down how to cast vision and breaks down how to cast vision and breaks down how to cast vision and confidently invite people to invest.

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what you're coming here for. Yeah. Okay. what you're coming here for. Yeah. Okay. So, let's just go there. What are the So, let's just go there. What are the So, let's just go there. What are the what are the apps? What are the dating what are the apps? What are the dating what are the apps? What are the dating apps? apps? apps? >> I would say Hinge is probably the >> I would say Hinge is probably the >> I would say Hinge is probably the coolest and most acceptable apps for coolest and most acceptable apps for coolest and most acceptable apps for secular and Christian. secular and Christian. secular and Christian. >> Okay. Tinder. No Christians should be on >> Okay. Tinder. No Christians should be on >> Okay. Tinder. No Christians should be on Tinder. I'm I'm that is a rare that's Tinder. I'm I'm that is a rare that's Tinder. I'm I'm that is a rare that's like it really is does meet the standard like it really is does meet the standard like it really is does meet the standard of what it's known for. of what it's known for. of what it's known for. >> Uh there's Bumble which the girl reaches >> Uh there's Bumble which the girl reaches >> Uh there's Bumble which the girl reaches out first on Bumble. Um that's the way out first on Bumble. Um that's the way out first on Bumble. Um that's the way that goes. That's okay. that goes. That's okay. that goes. That's okay. >> Then there's Christian specific apps and >> Then there's Christian specific apps and >> Then there's Christian specific apps and there's apps for people in different there's apps for people in different there's apps for people in different decades, right? So we have people that decades, right? So we have people that decades, right? So we have people that we've coached that are older. They might we've coached that are older. They might we've coached that are older. They might be getting on e-harmony or match.com or be getting on e-harmony or match.com or be getting on e-harmony or match.com or Christian cafe. They use their laptop or Christian cafe. They use their laptop or Christian cafe. They use their laptop or their laptop to their phone. They're not their laptop to their phone. They're not their laptop to their phone. They're not on their phone. on their phone. on their phone. >> No, but that that demographic, we >> No, but that that demographic, we >> No, but that that demographic, we wouldn't recommend those. wouldn't recommend those. wouldn't recommend those. >> E-Harmony still around. >> E-Harmony still around. >> E-Harmony still around. >> 20s and 30s. >> 20s and 30s. >> 20s and 30s. >> Yeah. Still going. It's still going >> Yeah. Still going. It's still going >> Yeah. Still going. It's still going strong. strong. strong. >> Interesting. >> Interesting. >> Interesting. >> Christian Mingle still going strong. >> Christian Mingle still going strong. >> Christian Mingle still going strong. >> Christian Mingle. That's a thing. I >> Christian Mingle. That's a thing. I >> Christian Mingle. That's a thing. I thought that was like a comedian's thought that was like a comedian's thought that was like a comedian's thing. thing. thing. >> No, that's a real thing. It's real and >> No, that's a real thing. It's real and >> No, that's a real thing. It's real and works. Yeah, it does.

works. Yeah, it does. works. Yeah, it does. >> We don't love Christian Mingle. We are >> We don't love Christian Mingle. We are >> We don't love Christian Mingle. We are We like some of the newer Christian We like some of the newer Christian We like some of the newer Christian dating apps. Ark is one. Um, it's a RK dating apps. Ark is one. Um, it's a RK dating apps. Ark is one. Um, it's a RK find your pair. find your pair. find your pair. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Yeah, exactly. >> I know. >> I know. >> I know. >> It's true. It's Yes. >> It's true. It's Yes. >> It's true. It's Yes. >> I know. >> I know. >> I know. >> That's great. >> That's great. >> That's great. >> I know. There's one called Holy. I mean, >> I know. There's one called Holy. I mean, >> I know. There's one called Holy. I mean, it's pretty on the nose. There you go. it's pretty on the nose. There you go. it's pretty on the nose. There you go. >> I'm sure some people download it as like >> I'm sure some people download it as like >> I'm sure some people download it as like a prayer app and then let's all sudden a prayer app and then let's all sudden a prayer app and then let's all sudden you're divorced. you're divorced. you're divorced. >> Yeah, [clears throat] exactly. Um, >> Yeah, [clears throat] exactly. Um, >> Yeah, [clears throat] exactly. Um, there's another one uh Upward, there's another one uh Upward, there's another one uh Upward, >> but that's owned by a secular company. >> but that's owned by a secular company. >> but that's owned by a secular company. So that's also, you know, they're owned So that's also, you know, they're owned So that's also, you know, they're owned by match. by match. by match. >> So there's lots of dating apps. >> So there's lots of dating apps. >> So there's lots of dating apps. >> Lots of dating apps. >> Lots of dating apps. >> Lots of dating apps. >> Tons. >> Tons. >> Tons. >> And does anybody just like not use a >> And does anybody just like not use a >> And does anybody just like not use a dating app or everyone's on a dating dating app or everyone's on a dating dating app or everyone's on a dating app? app? app? >> No. There are people because of the >> No. There are people because of the >> No. There are people because of the Christian culture stigma. And even I Christian culture stigma. And even I Christian culture stigma. And even I would say some of the pastoral stuff is would say some of the pastoral stuff is would say some of the pastoral stuff is like they're like there's a big stigma like they're like there's a big stigma like they're like there's a big stigma that dating apps are bad that dating apps are bad that dating apps are bad >> and that it's just for hookup culture. >> and that it's just for hookup culture. >> and that it's just for hookup culture. And And And >> I disagree with that. I think it's all >> I disagree with that. I think it's all >> I disagree with that. I think it's all about your intention. And of course about your intention. And of course about your intention. And of course you're going to find frogs. Of course, you're going to find frogs. Of course, you're going to find frogs. Of course, you're going to find, you know, eight you're going to find, you know, eight you're going to find, you know, eight out of eight out of 10 people you meet out of eight out of 10 people you meet out of eight out of 10 people you meet on a dating app, it's nothing's going to on a dating app, it's nothing's going to on a dating app, it's nothing's going to happen. You probably, it's not going to happen. You probably, it's not going to happen. You probably, it's not going to be quality. And you just have to know be quality. And you just have to know be quality. And you just have to know that going into it because if you are that going into it because if you are that going into it because if you are thinking every person I meet on this app thinking every person I meet on this app thinking every person I meet on this app is going to be awesome, then you're is going to be awesome, then you're is going to be awesome, then you're going to have a horrible experience.

going to have a horrible experience. going to have a horrible experience. >> But I would say about half of your >> But I would say about half of your >> But I would say about half of your Christian singles in your congregation Christian singles in your congregation Christian singles in your congregation are probably on a on a dating app. are probably on a on a dating app. are probably on a on a dating app. >> That's true. Even, you know, when I was >> That's true. Even, you know, when I was >> That's true. Even, you know, when I was a lead pastor, which is now over a a lead pastor, which is now over a a lead pastor, which is now over a decade ago, decade ago, decade ago, >> most of the people that were connecting >> most of the people that were connecting >> most of the people that were connecting were connecting online with whatever were connecting online with whatever were connecting online with whatever apps were around back then. Social media apps were around back then. Social media apps were around back then. Social media now, too. now, too. now, too. >> Social media. Yeah. Sliding into the >> Social media. Yeah. Sliding into the >> Social media. Yeah. Sliding into the DMs, right? DMs, right? DMs, right? >> Yeah. That's very popular. >> Yeah. That's very popular. >> Yeah. That's very popular. >> Super. I would say that's probably the >> Super. I would say that's probably the >> Super. I would say that's probably the most popular right now most popular right now most popular right now >> for a lot of Christians. Uh, super >> for a lot of Christians. Uh, super >> for a lot of Christians. Uh, super acceptable. I mean, you can be a acceptable. I mean, you can be a acceptable. I mean, you can be a Christian leader, uh, like a junior Christian leader, uh, like a junior Christian leader, uh, like a junior pastor or young adults pastor single, pastor or young adults pastor single, pastor or young adults pastor single, and you know, there's like a worship and you know, there's like a worship and you know, there's like a worship leader who's really attractive at the leader who's really attractive at the leader who's really attractive at the church down the street, and you can church down the street, and you can church down the street, and you can slide into her DMs, you know, that's a slide into her DMs, you know, that's a slide into her DMs, you know, that's a that's very common. Yeah. that's very common. Yeah. that's very common. Yeah. >> Wow. Okay. So, whole new world. >> Wow. Okay. So, whole new world. >> Wow. Okay. So, whole new world. Technologies really changed things. Technologies really changed things. Technologies really changed things. >> Uh, I'm wondering if we can go back a >> Uh, I'm wondering if we can go back a >> Uh, I'm wondering if we can go back a little bit. Let's pick up your story little bit. Let's pick up your story little bit. Let's pick up your story again. 2021, you're doing a FaceTime again. 2021, you're doing a FaceTime again. 2021, you're doing a FaceTime date. That's how we got here. date. That's how we got here. date. That's how we got here. >> Yes. doing a FaceTime date. So, LA, >> Yes. doing a FaceTime date. So, LA, >> Yes. doing a FaceTime date. So, LA, Seattle, pick it up from there. What Seattle, pick it up from there. What Seattle, pick it up from there. What happened with you guys?

happened with you guys? happened with you guys? >> So, at first I wasn't that interested in >> So, at first I wasn't that interested in >> So, at first I wasn't that interested in JJ. I think a big part of our story, a JJ. I think a big part of our story, a JJ. I think a big part of our story, a big thing I would encourage leaders to big thing I would encourage leaders to big thing I would encourage leaders to encourage their singles is to date the encourage their singles is to date the encourage their singles is to date the unexpected. unexpected. unexpected. And for me, And for me, And for me, >> he didn't meet your list >> he didn't meet your list >> he didn't meet your list >> because he didn't meet my he wasn't my >> because he didn't meet my he wasn't my >> because he didn't meet my he wasn't my type. Okay. But type is usually driven type. Okay. But type is usually driven type. Okay. But type is usually driven off of off of off of >> pathology. It's usually also driven by >> pathology. It's usually also driven by >> pathology. It's usually also driven by looks, right? If you think about it, looks, right? If you think about it, looks, right? If you think about it, when someone says no, they're not my when someone says no, they're not my when someone says no, they're not my type. It's it's usually because of how type. It's it's usually because of how type. It's it's usually because of how they look they look they look >> and not because of what they do, their >> and not because of what they do, their >> and not because of what they do, their character, their love for the Lord, character, their love for the Lord, character, their love for the Lord, nothing like that. And so, he was not nothing like that. And so, he was not nothing like that. And so, he was not somebody I would normally go for, okay? somebody I would normally go for, okay? somebody I would normally go for, okay? The age, the hair, style, like all that. The age, the hair, style, like all that. The age, the hair, style, like all that. And in fact, when he came to visit one And in fact, when he came to visit one And in fact, when he came to visit one month after us doing long distance, month after us doing long distance, month after us doing long distance, which is what we recommend, one month which is what we recommend, one month which is what we recommend, one month in, uh, he was great, but I was very in, uh, he was great, but I was very in, uh, he was great, but I was very much in my head hung up on like the way much in my head hung up on like the way much in my head hung up on like the way his style was. his style was. his style was. >> So, you liked him. >> So, you liked him. >> So, you liked him. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> But you didn't like his type. >> But you didn't like his type. >> But you didn't like his type. >> Yeah. The Jenzers would say I had the >> Yeah. The Jenzers would say I had the >> Yeah. The Jenzers would say I had the ick. Okay. That ick. Okay. That ick. Okay. That >> one, you know, the I have heard it.

>> one, you know, the I have heard it. >> one, you know, the I have heard it. >> So, and maybe I'm even sounding >> So, and maybe I'm even sounding >> So, and maybe I'm even sounding outdated. Is that even outdated. Is that even outdated. Is that even >> makes me so grateful I'm not dating >> makes me so grateful I'm not dating >> makes me so grateful I'm not dating right now. just keep going. right now. just keep going. right now. just keep going. >> Yeah, I know. >> Yeah, I know. >> Yeah, I know. >> So, but you know, I'm so grateful for >> So, but you know, I'm so grateful for >> So, but you know, I'm so grateful for people in my life because while I was a people in my life because while I was a people in my life because while I was a dating coach and taught people about dating coach and taught people about dating coach and taught people about this stuff, I still needed those voices this stuff, I still needed those voices this stuff, I still needed those voices in my life to be like, "Hey, that in my life to be like, "Hey, that in my life to be like, "Hey, that stuff's stupid." Like, who cares if he stuff's stupid." Like, who cares if he stuff's stupid." Like, who cares if he has blue hair? Like, his color of his has blue hair? Like, his color of his has blue hair? Like, his color of his hair will change. His style might hair will change. His style might hair will change. His style might change. And what's his character? What's change. And what's his character? What's change. And what's his character? What's his heart like? Does he love the Lord? his heart like? Does he love the Lord? his heart like? Does he love the Lord? >> And most importantly, girls say, "You >> And most importantly, girls say, "You >> And most importantly, girls say, "You can fix that." can fix that." can fix that." >> Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. [laughter] These >> Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. [laughter] These >> Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. [laughter] These things don't matter. I noticed it things don't matter. I noticed it things don't matter. I noticed it appears to be a very natural brown right appears to be a very natural brown right appears to be a very natural brown right now. now. now. >> Yeah, I know. Kate, she got her hands in >> Yeah, I know. Kate, she got her hands in >> Yeah, I know. Kate, she got her hands in [clears throat] there. [clears throat] there. [clears throat] there. >> He did have a mullet a year ago. Okay. >> He did have a mullet a year ago. Okay. >> He did have a mullet a year ago. Okay. Mullet. Mullet. Mullet. >> Yeah. About a year ago he started >> Yeah. About a year ago he started >> Yeah. About a year ago he started growing it and so growing it and so growing it and so >> every day [laughter] >> every day [laughter] >> every day [laughter] that's a funny story about that leaving. that's a funny story about that leaving. that's a funny story about that leaving. Anyway, so for me I really was not sure Anyway, so for me I really was not sure Anyway, so for me I really was not sure and it for I had to kind of challenge and it for I had to kind of challenge and it for I had to kind of challenge myself every day to be like hey ju it's myself every day to be like hey ju it's myself every day to be like hey ju it's just one more date. It's just one more just one more date. It's just one more just one more date. It's just one more date. if you know enough information to date. if you know enough information to date. if you know enough information to see them one more time, keep going out see them one more time, keep going out see them one more time, keep going out with them. Yeah.

with them. Yeah. with them. Yeah. >> And I was like, this is more about >> And I was like, this is more about >> And I was like, this is more about character. Now, if I found him quote character. Now, if I found him quote character. Now, if I found him quote ugly, okay, I'm not going out with him. ugly, okay, I'm not going out with him. ugly, okay, I'm not going out with him. >> Right. If you're kind of >> Right. If you're kind of >> Right. If you're kind of >> really repulsed, is that a word? Is that >> really repulsed, is that a word? Is that >> really repulsed, is that a word? Is that a word? Like really repulsed? a word? Like really repulsed? a word? Like really repulsed? >> Like I And I I'll be honest with you, >> Like I And I I'll be honest with you, >> Like I And I I'll be honest with you, like like like >> her physical beauty was the first thing >> her physical beauty was the first thing >> her physical beauty was the first thing that attracted me to Tony. that attracted me to Tony. that attracted me to Tony. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I had no idea >> I had no idea >> I had no idea >> whether she was a decent human being or >> whether she was a decent human being or >> whether she was a decent human being or not. And I couldn't and and I've thought not. And I couldn't and and I've thought not. And I couldn't and and I've thought about that, you know, it's like I think about that, you know, it's like I think about that, you know, it's like I think there for me anyway, there has to be a there for me anyway, there has to be a there for me anyway, there has to be a certain level of attractiveness because certain level of attractiveness because certain level of attractiveness because you're going to go through you're going to go through you're going to go through >> like and and attractiveness is >> like and and attractiveness is >> like and and attractiveness is subjective, subjective, subjective, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> There is, you know, I find her very >> There is, you know, I find her very >> There is, you know, I find her very attractive. I think objectively she's attractive. I think objectively she's attractive. I think objectively she's very attractive, but like there are days very attractive, but like there are days very attractive, but like there are days where you just don't like each other and where you just don't like each other and where you just don't like each other and like, well, at least you look good, you like, well, at least you look good, you like, well, at least you look good, you know, like [laughter] maybe I'm really know, like [laughter] maybe I'm really know, like [laughter] maybe I'm really vain and shallow. vain and shallow. vain and shallow. >> That is true. Well, what we always say >> That is true. Well, what we always say >> That is true. Well, what we always say is on a scale of zero to five, is on a scale of zero to five, is on a scale of zero to five, >> three out of five is good enough. like >> three out of five is good enough. like >> three out of five is good enough. like moderate attraction is start to start moderate attraction is start to start moderate attraction is start to start with. with. with. >> Yeah. And we'll talk about it later, but >> Yeah. And we'll talk about it later, but >> Yeah. And we'll talk about it later, but especially for men because of porn in especially for men because of porn in especially for men because of porn in the digital age, our compass and our the digital age, our compass and our the digital age, our compass and our objective scale of beauty is so jacked objective scale of beauty is so jacked objective scale of beauty is so jacked up, up, up, >> you know, we don't even know what a true >> you know, we don't even know what a true >> you know, we don't even know what a true natural beauty is or what's realistic.

natural beauty is or what's realistic. natural beauty is or what's realistic. That's such a good point. I want to come That's such a good point. I want to come That's such a good point. I want to come back to that because like even in 1988 back to that because like even in 1988 back to that because like even in 1988 like there was if there was online porn, like there was if there was online porn, like there was if there was online porn, I was completely unaware of it. nobody I was completely unaware of it. nobody I was completely unaware of it. nobody had the internet, you know, back then. had the internet, you know, back then. had the internet, you know, back then. >> And it was really hard to get. And so I >> And it was really hard to get. And so I >> And it was really hard to get. And so I feel like I'm one of those guys. I don't feel like I'm one of those guys. I don't feel like I'm one of those guys. I don't have a porn addiction. And it was have a porn addiction. And it was have a porn addiction. And it was probably just, it's not that I haven't probably just, it's not that I haven't probably just, it's not that I haven't seen it before in my life, you know, I seen it before in my life, you know, I seen it before in my life, you know, I have, have, have, >> but like it's just not a deep temptation >> but like it's just not a deep temptation >> but like it's just not a deep temptation because it was such a stigma, so hard to because it was such a stigma, so hard to because it was such a stigma, so hard to get and I wasn't raised on it. Now that get and I wasn't raised on it. Now that get and I wasn't raised on it. Now that has completely changed. has completely changed. has completely changed. >> Oh yeah. >> Oh yeah. >> Oh yeah. >> To the point where 98% >> To the point where 98% >> To the point where 98% of guys of guys of guys >> Oh yeah. It's >> Oh yeah. It's >> Oh yeah. It's >> have had exposure. devastated >> have had exposure. devastated >> have had exposure. devastated an entire generation of men. And you an entire generation of men. And you an entire generation of men. And you know, one the fact here is your scale of know, one the fact here is your scale of know, one the fact here is your scale of 1 to 10 objective beauty was just what 1 to 10 objective beauty was just what 1 to 10 objective beauty was just what you saw at the grocery store. you saw at the grocery store. you saw at the grocery store. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> What you saw at law school, >> What you saw at law school, >> What you saw at law school, >> what you saw at a football game. >> what you saw at a football game. >> what you saw at a football game. >> My scale of 1 to 10 because of porn is >> My scale of 1 to 10 because of porn is >> My scale of 1 to 10 because of porn is so distorted and warped so distorted and warped so distorted and warped >> that a girl who you would have, you >> that a girl who you would have, you >> that a girl who you would have, you know, maybe rated as seven or eight is know, maybe rated as seven or eight is know, maybe rated as seven or eight is maybe a six, a five point. So that's the maybe a six, a five point. So that's the maybe a six, a five point. So that's the part, but we'll get to that later. But part, but we'll get to that later. But part, but we'll get to that later. But um so Kate Kate's gotten crucified on um so Kate Kate's gotten crucified on um so Kate Kate's gotten crucified on the internet [laughter] the internet [laughter] the internet [laughter] >> because she's gotten like mega viral >> because she's gotten like mega viral >> because she's gotten like mega viral like 20 million views on like multiple like 20 million views on like multiple like 20 million views on like multiple reels because she's called herself out reels because she's called herself out reels because she's called herself out for this. I wasn't initially attracted for this. I wasn't initially attracted for this. I wasn't initially attracted to my husband.

to my husband. to my husband. >> Oh, and what are people saying in the >> Oh, and what are people saying in the >> Oh, and what are people saying in the comments? comments? comments? >> You called him ugly. I can't believe you >> You called him ugly. I can't believe you >> You called him ugly. I can't believe you do that. I'm like I didn't say he was do that. I'm like I didn't say he was do that. I'm like I didn't say he was ugly. I said I wasn't initially ugly. I said I wasn't initially ugly. I said I wasn't initially attracted and then I in the caption attracted and then I in the caption attracted and then I in the caption which nobody reads I realize um which which nobody reads I realize um which which nobody reads I realize um which >> nobody reads [laughter] not the point >> nobody reads [laughter] not the point >> nobody reads [laughter] not the point >> yeah is that it was like because I was >> yeah is that it was like because I was >> yeah is that it was like because I was being superficial and I was hung up on being superficial and I was hung up on being superficial and I was hung up on things like oh the hair color and the things like oh the hair color and the things like oh the hair color and the style and you know again if it was zero style and you know again if it was zero style and you know again if it was zero out of five attractiveness of like no out of five attractiveness of like no out of five attractiveness of like no I'm just he is not physically attracted I'm just he is not physically attracted I'm just he is not physically attracted to me at all that is a different story to me at all that is a different story to me at all that is a different story then no there was attraction but I was then no there was attraction but I was then no there was attraction but I was hung up on age I was hung up on the hair hung up on age I was hung up on the hair hung up on age I was hung up on the hair up on these things. up on these things. up on these things. >> But I I don't think Tony was like deeply >> But I I don't think Tony was like deeply >> But I I don't think Tony was like deeply like the first thing she noticed about like the first thing she noticed about like the first thing she noticed about me was not my looks. me was not my looks. me was not my looks. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I don't I don't think and I I I I can >> I don't I don't think and I I I I can >> I don't I don't think and I I I I can say that, [laughter] you know, and I'll say that, [laughter] you know, and I'll say that, [laughter] you know, and I'll be interested to see what she has to be interested to see what she has to be interested to see what she has to say, but she's never like, "Oh, yeah. say, but she's never like, "Oh, yeah. say, but she's never like, "Oh, yeah. You were exactly what I dreamed of." You were exactly what I dreamed of." You were exactly what I dreamed of." >> You know, she's like red hair. >> You know, she's like red hair. >> You know, she's like red hair. >> Well, and that's not typical. I mean, >> Well, and that's not typical. I mean, >> Well, and that's not typical. I mean, Scott Galloway, he has a really great Scott Galloway, he has a really great Scott Galloway, he has a really great theory. Like for the past few thousand theory. Like for the past few thousand theory. Like for the past few thousand years, men always had the public square years, men always had the public square years, men always had the public square and arena kind of to demonstrate and arena kind of to demonstrate and arena kind of to demonstrate excellence.

excellence. excellence. >> So even though Carrie's maybe not a GQ >> So even though Carrie's maybe not a GQ >> So even though Carrie's maybe not a GQ model, I get to constantly see him model, I get to constantly see him model, I get to constantly see him demonstrate excellence in his work, uh demonstrate excellence in his work, uh demonstrate excellence in his work, uh how he operates, how he treats people, how he operates, how he treats people, how he operates, how he treats people, and that's what women could really be and that's what women could really be and that's what women could really be attracted to and latch on to. We kind of attracted to and latch on to. We kind of attracted to and latch on to. We kind of miss that public square and miss that public square and miss that public square and demonstration for men to demonstrate demonstration for men to demonstrate demonstration for men to demonstrate that excellence. that excellence. that excellence. >> Totally. And we had that. And you know >> Totally. And we had that. And you know >> Totally. And we had that. And you know what I think Tony would say again next what I think Tony would say again next what I think Tony would say again next episode, never speak for your wife. episode, never speak for your wife. episode, never speak for your wife. Okay, [laughter] but but we'll get her Okay, [laughter] but but we'll get her Okay, [laughter] but but we'll get her here next time. here next time. here next time. >> Yeah, we'll get her. You guys know her. >> Yeah, we'll get her. You guys know her. >> Yeah, we'll get her. You guys know her. I think she would say because I've heard I think she would say because I've heard I think she would say because I've heard her say this. She was attracted to my her say this. She was attracted to my her say this. She was attracted to my confidence confidence confidence >> and she was attracted to my sense of >> and she was attracted to my sense of >> and she was attracted to my sense of humor. That kind of once you can crack a humor. That kind of once you can crack a humor. That kind of once you can crack a girl up, girl up, girl up, >> they're kind of like, "Oh, you're you're >> they're kind of like, "Oh, you're you're >> they're kind of like, "Oh, you're you're funny." And I'm always joking around. funny." And I'm always joking around. funny." And I'm always joking around. >> Well, sense of humor is the number one >> Well, sense of humor is the number one >> Well, sense of humor is the number one attractive thing for a woman because it attractive thing for a woman because it attractive thing for a woman because it signals emotional intelligence. signals emotional intelligence. signals emotional intelligence. >> I'm hilarious. >> I'm hilarious. >> I'm hilarious. >> Yeah. Um, no. But I always love like >> Yeah. Um, no. But I always love like >> Yeah. Um, no. But I always love like more offstage than on stage. People say, more offstage than on stage. People say, more offstage than on stage. People say, "You're really funny offline." I don't "You're really funny offline." I don't "You're really funny offline." I don't know. When I get behind a microphone, know. When I get behind a microphone, know. When I get behind a microphone, it's kind of like, you know, I just it's kind of like, you know, I just it's kind of like, you know, I just interview comedians, [laughter] right? interview comedians, [laughter] right? interview comedians, [laughter] right? That's what I do. That's what I do. That's what I do. >> You are very funny offline. I will say >> You are very funny offline. I will say >> You are very funny offline. I will say that.

that. that. >> We have a good time, man. Like, we have >> We have a good time, man. Like, we have >> We have a good time, man. Like, we have a good time. a good time. a good time. >> No, it's true. But before I met him, I >> No, it's true. But before I met him, I >> No, it's true. But before I met him, I was like, "Oh, he's serious and like was like, "Oh, he's serious and like was like, "Oh, he's serious and like really legit." And then behind the really legit." And then behind the really legit." And then behind the scenes, I'm like, "Oh, he's also super scenes, I'm like, "Oh, he's also super scenes, I'm like, "Oh, he's also super funny." funny." funny." >> But you were also that way. And I liked >> But you were also that way. And I liked >> But you were also that way. And I liked that about your personality. So that's a that about your personality. So that's a that about your personality. So that's a another layer of attraction is just another layer of attraction is just another layer of attraction is just personality attraction. personality attraction. personality attraction. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> So it's not just physical attraction >> So it's not just physical attraction >> So it's not just physical attraction that matters. It's there's five that matters. It's there's five that matters. It's there's five different buckets of attraction. I think different buckets of attraction. I think different buckets of attraction. I think people just don't weigh them well people just don't weigh them well people just don't weigh them well enough. You know, spiritual, emotional, enough. You know, spiritual, emotional, enough. You know, spiritual, emotional, personality, intellectual, physical. personality, intellectual, physical. personality, intellectual, physical. >> We always go by the physical mainly, >> We always go by the physical mainly, >> We always go by the physical mainly, right? It's like right? It's like right? It's like >> personality. >> personality. >> personality. >> Yeah. And and a bit of personality, but >> Yeah. And and a bit of personality, but >> Yeah. And and a bit of personality, but we don't weigh spiritual enough. We we don't weigh spiritual enough. We we don't weigh spiritual enough. We don't weigh emotional enough. An don't weigh emotional enough. An don't weigh emotional enough. An intellectual is sometimes that goes up intellectual is sometimes that goes up intellectual is sometimes that goes up and down for the person depending on if and down for the person depending on if and down for the person depending on if that needs to be important. But they that needs to be important. But they that needs to be important. But they could be the hottest person if you can't could be the hottest person if you can't could be the hottest person if you can't have a conversation with them and you have a conversation with them and you have a conversation with them and you can't connect intellectually like this can't connect intellectually like this can't connect intellectually like this is a pretty boring relationship, you is a pretty boring relationship, you is a pretty boring relationship, you know? know? know? >> Gosh, you know, I listened to this >> Gosh, you know, I listened to this >> Gosh, you know, I listened to this podcast years ago. I might have told you podcast years ago. I might have told you podcast years ago. I might have told you guys about this, but it was some guy who guys about this, but it was some guy who guys about this, but it was some guy who made a lot of money very young. Date made a lot of money very young. Date made a lot of money very young. Date anybody, right? New York City. It's not anybody, right? New York City. It's not anybody, right? New York City. It's not Scott Harrison. It's going to sound like Scott Harrison. It's going to sound like Scott Harrison. It's going to sound like Scott Harrison's story. It's not Scott Scott Harrison's story. It's not Scott Scott Harrison's story. It's not Scott Harrison. But he he said, and this is on Harrison. But he he said, and this is on Harrison. But he he said, and this is on a secular podcast, he said, you know, I a secular podcast, he said, you know, I a secular podcast, he said, you know, I was dating models cuz I could get who I was dating models cuz I could get who I was dating models cuz I could get who I wanted. And he said he was like in his wanted. And he said he was like in his wanted. And he said he was like in his 20s, mega wealthy. He's five dinners in 20s, mega wealthy. He's five dinners in 20s, mega wealthy. He's five dinners in with this quote bombshell, whatever that with this quote bombshell, whatever that with this quote bombshell, whatever that means. And they got nothing to talk means. And they got nothing to talk means. And they got nothing to talk about. And he said, I changed my about. And he said, I changed my about. And he said, I changed my criteria because he said, I realized criteria because he said, I realized criteria because he said, I realized even then that I'm going to have more

even then that I'm going to have more even then that I'm going to have more meals with this person than any other meals with this person than any other meals with this person than any other person in my life. And if there's person in my life. And if there's person in my life. And if there's nothing to talk about, I can't be with nothing to talk about, I can't be with nothing to talk about, I can't be with her. And Tony and I, like, we've got a her. And Tony and I, like, we've got a her. And Tony and I, like, we've got a 13-hour drive at the end of this week as 13-hour drive at the end of this week as 13-hour drive at the end of this week as we head back home from Nashville. we head back home from Nashville. we head back home from Nashville. >> We are not 37 years in not going to be >> We are not 37 years in not going to be >> We are not 37 years in not going to be stuck for things to talk about. I don't stuck for things to talk about. I don't stuck for things to talk about. I don't know what that is. I don't know how that know what that is. I don't know how that know what that is. I don't know how that happens, happens, happens, >> but like it is >> but like it is >> but like it is >> fun and wonderful. And that was >> fun and wonderful. And that was >> fun and wonderful. And that was intellectual for me was a big thing. intellectual for me was a big thing. intellectual for me was a big thing. >> It's like I need somebody that I can >> It's like I need somebody that I can >> It's like I need somebody that I can spar ideas with. spar ideas with. spar ideas with. >> Exactly. and she's great at that. >> Exactly. and she's great at that. >> Exactly. and she's great at that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Well, the personality and the >> Well, the personality and the >> Well, the personality and the intellectual. One great way we say it intellectual. One great way we say it intellectual. One great way we say it is, could you be stuck, literally stuck is, could you be stuck, literally stuck is, could you be stuck, literally stuck on an island with this person? on an island with this person? on an island with this person? >> How would that go? >> How would that go? >> How would that go? >> That's a great question. >> That's a great question. >> That's a great question. >> Yeah. Yes. 37 years in. Yes. >> Yeah. Yes. 37 years in. Yes. >> Yeah. Yes. 37 years in. Yes. >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> Absolutely. The only one I'd want to be >> Absolutely. The only one I'd want to be >> Absolutely. The only one I'd want to be stuck on the island. [laughter] stuck on the island. [laughter] stuck on the island. [laughter] >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> You know. Yeah. We'd have a great time. >> You know. Yeah. We'd have a great time. >> You know. Yeah. We'd have a great time. We'd we would spar for sure. We'd we would spar for sure. We'd we would spar for sure. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> We'd have you would actually help me >> We'd have you would actually help me >> We'd have you would actually help me survive is what would happen, but also survive is what would happen, but also survive is what would happen, but also [laughter] have a fun survival skill.

[laughter] have a fun survival skill. [laughter] have a fun survival skill. Exactly. This episode is brought to you Exactly. This episode is brought to you Exactly. This episode is brought to you by church salary. So, every leader I by church salary. So, every leader I by church salary. So, every leader I know, church leader anyway, carries a know, church leader anyway, carries a know, church leader anyway, carries a pretty heavy responsibility. pretty heavy responsibility. pretty heavy responsibility. Honor your team by paying them fairly. Honor your team by paying them fairly. Honor your team by paying them fairly. But the question I always ask is, how do But the question I always ask is, how do But the question I always ask is, how do I actually know what's fair? So, to talk I actually know what's fair? So, to talk I actually know what's fair? So, to talk about a new way to do this, I've invited about a new way to do this, I've invited about a new way to do this, I've invited Brad Hill from Glue. Brad, how do you do Brad Hill from Glue. Brad, how do you do Brad Hill from Glue. Brad, how do you do that? How do you know what's fair, that? How do you know what's fair, that? How do you know what's fair, what's not? Yeah, Carrie, I was really what's not? Yeah, Carrie, I was really what's not? Yeah, Carrie, I was really curious about this and I was asking the curious about this and I was asking the curious about this and I was asking the team recently at church salary. What's team recently at church salary. What's team recently at church salary. What's the most common mistake that they see the most common mistake that they see the most common mistake that they see churches making when it comes to churches making when it comes to churches making when it comes to compensation? And the answer was really compensation? And the answer was really compensation? And the answer was really clear. Churches often use just generic clear. Churches often use just generic clear. Churches often use just generic publicly available stats, publicly available stats, publicly available stats, >> you know, basically things you can get >> you know, basically things you can get >> you know, basically things you can get on Google to figure out what to pay on Google to figure out what to pay on Google to figure out what to pay someone on their team. And so often someone on their team. And so often someone on their team. And so often that's because it's just too difficult that's because it's just too difficult that's because it's just too difficult to get accurate data that's church to get accurate data that's church to get accurate data that's church specific or unique to your city or your specific or unique to your city or your specific or unique to your city or your role. And this results in leaders and role. And this results in leaders and role. And this results in leaders and teams that might be paid too much or teams that might be paid too much or teams that might be paid too much or might be paid not enough or some might be paid not enough or some might be paid not enough or some inconsistency therein. Right. So the inconsistency therein. Right. So the inconsistency therein. Right. So the good news is that church salary fixes good news is that church salary fixes good news is that church salary fixes all of that with their new version.

all of that with their new version. all of that with their new version. >> Okay. Yeah. I've heard about church >> Okay. Yeah. I've heard about church >> Okay. Yeah. I've heard about church salary 3.0. So what does that software, salary 3.0. So what does that software, salary 3.0. So what does that software, that tool actually address? that tool actually address? that tool actually address? >> Yeah, great question. You know, church >> Yeah, great question. You know, church >> Yeah, great question. You know, church salary 3.0 helps pastors and leaders salary 3.0 helps pastors and leaders salary 3.0 helps pastors and leaders answer things like, "Am I being paid answer things like, "Am I being paid answer things like, "Am I being paid fairly? Are we paying our team fairly? fairly? Are we paying our team fairly? fairly? Are we paying our team fairly? How should cost of living, education, How should cost of living, education, How should cost of living, education, experience, all those things affect experience, all those things affect experience, all those things affect comp?" And it uses real ministry comp?" And it uses real ministry comp?" And it uses real ministry specific data to give you clarity and specific data to give you clarity and specific data to give you clarity and confidence. confidence. confidence. >> Well, that's helpful because it's more >> Well, that's helpful because it's more >> Well, that's helpful because it's more than just about, you know, what the than just about, you know, what the than just about, you know, what the salary line says. So, this is the thing salary line says. So, this is the thing salary line says. So, this is the thing that gets me. Every leader I know wants that gets me. Every leader I know wants that gets me. Every leader I know wants to honor their team and lead with to honor their team and lead with to honor their team and lead with transparency, but it's hard to know transparency, but it's hard to know transparency, but it's hard to know where to start without good data. So, if where to start without good data. So, if where to start without good data. So, if you want good data, go to you want good data, go to you want good data, go to churchy.com/carry. churchy.com/carry. churchy.com/carry. That's churchy.com/cy and start for free today. So, okay. So, and start for free today. So, okay. So, you know, you you you have these reels, you know, you you you have these reels, you know, you you you have these reels, >> you've got controversial views, or at >> you've got controversial views, or at >> you've got controversial views, or at least views that are not. What are some least views that are not. What are some least views that are not. What are some other views on dating that you would other views on dating that you would other views on dating that you would would not be cuz you you were you grew would not be cuz you you were you grew would not be cuz you you were you grew up being born in '89. You would have up being born in '89. You would have up being born in '89. You would have grown up with a remnants of purity grown up with a remnants of purity grown up with a remnants of purity culture.

culture. culture. >> Oh, for sure. I was right in it. >> Oh, for sure. I was right in it. >> Oh, for sure. I was right in it. >> You were right in it. All right. So, >> You were right in it. All right. So, >> You were right in it. All right. So, purity ring in middle school, the whole purity ring in middle school, the whole purity ring in middle school, the whole deal. deal. deal. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What's right and what's wrong with that? >> What's right and what's wrong with that? >> What's right and what's wrong with that? >> Yeah. I think it had good intentions, >> Yeah. I think it had good intentions, >> Yeah. I think it had good intentions, but it had a horrible effect. You know, but it had a horrible effect. You know, but it had a horrible effect. You know, Josh, his book I kiss dating goodbye was Josh, his book I kiss dating goodbye was Josh, his book I kiss dating goodbye was it just it was horrible. I literally it just it was horrible. I literally it just it was horrible. I literally have a high school experience of dating have a high school experience of dating have a high school experience of dating a guy and they the youth people found a guy and they the youth people found a guy and they the youth people found out about it and they literally were out about it and they literally were out about it and they literally were like, "You can't be in a relationship like, "You can't be in a relationship like, "You can't be in a relationship without our permission." And I was like, without our permission." And I was like, without our permission." And I was like, "What?" And so they made us come to meet "What?" And so they made us come to meet "What?" And so they made us come to meet with them. They had this whole pledge of with them. They had this whole pledge of with them. They had this whole pledge of like rules. Like if you're going to like rules. Like if you're going to like rules. Like if you're going to date, you have to be dating for date, you have to be dating for date, you have to be dating for marriage, right? marriage, right? marriage, right? >> And here are all the rules. You know, if >> And here are all the rules. You know, if >> And here are all the rules. You know, if you sit next to each other on a couch, you sit next to each other on a couch, you sit next to each other on a couch, there has to be two pillows between you there has to be two pillows between you there has to be two pillows between you at all times. No using Yeah. No using a at all times. No using Yeah. No using a at all times. No using Yeah. No using a blanket, only hanging out in groups, blanket, only hanging out in groups, blanket, only hanging out in groups, like there all these things. And we had like there all these things. And we had like there all these things. And we had to sign it and we had to also, you know, to sign it and we had to also, you know, to sign it and we had to also, you know, meet with them every few weeks to make meet with them every few weeks to make meet with them every few weeks to make sure we're on a path to marriage. It was sure we're on a path to marriage. It was sure we're on a path to marriage. It was crazy. Okay. It was a wild time. We crazy. Okay. It was a wild time. We crazy. Okay. It was a wild time. We broke these rules and then, you know, broke these rules and then, you know, broke these rules and then, you know, it's like the shame you feel because you it's like the shame you feel because you it's like the shame you feel because you broke these rules broke these rules broke these rules >> because rules are meant to be broken >> because rules are meant to be broken >> because rules are meant to be broken >> to some extent.

>> to some extent. >> to some extent. >> It was like, [laughter] >> It was like, [laughter] >> It was like, [laughter] >> don't take that clip out of context. >> don't take that clip out of context. >> don't take that clip out of context. >> It was a hard time. You know, this is a >> It was a hard time. You know, this is a >> It was a hard time. You know, this is a really hard time. Yeah, I don't know how really hard time. Yeah, I don't know how really hard time. Yeah, I don't know how much you grew up with it the same way, much you grew up with it the same way, much you grew up with it the same way, but for me it created this huge shame but for me it created this huge shame but for me it created this huge shame based culture in dating and it made me based culture in dating and it made me based culture in dating and it made me and the guy I was dating start hiding a and the guy I was dating start hiding a and the guy I was dating start hiding a lot of things because lot of things because lot of things because >> we didn't feel like we could be honest >> we didn't feel like we could be honest >> we didn't feel like we could be honest with the things we were struggling with with the things we were struggling with with the things we were struggling with and so and so and so >> yeah I was in the right in the middle of >> yeah I was in the right in the middle of >> yeah I was in the right in the middle of that. It was a horrible thing and but I that. It was a horrible thing and but I that. It was a horrible thing and but I think that you know so a lot of people think that you know so a lot of people think that you know so a lot of people are still not recovered from that but are still not recovered from that but are still not recovered from that but also I don't think our dating world has also I don't think our dating world has also I don't think our dating world has gotten that much better even from that gotten that much better even from that gotten that much better even from that time frame unfortunately time frame unfortunately time frame unfortunately >> any thoughts on that? >> any thoughts on that? >> any thoughts on that? >> Yeah I mean well Dr. Cloud I he loved >> Yeah I mean well Dr. Cloud I he loved >> Yeah I mean well Dr. Cloud I he loved this analogy and and I do too Josh this analogy and and I do too Josh this analogy and and I do too Josh Harris in that whole book and culture Harris in that whole book and culture Harris in that whole book and culture was born out of a car crash. he had a was born out of a car crash. he had a was born out of a car crash. he had a bad dating experience and so the rule bad dating experience and so the rule bad dating experience and so the rule moving forward was okay we're just not moving forward was okay we're just not moving forward was okay we're just not going to drive cars like we're just not going to drive cars like we're just not going to drive cars like we're just not going to do dating going to do dating going to do dating >> basically like theoretically he's like I >> basically like theoretically he's like I >> basically like theoretically he's like I had a bad experience so nobody should do had a bad experience so nobody should do had a bad experience so nobody should do this this this >> yeah and a lot of people >> yeah and a lot of people >> yeah and a lot of people and um you know so the big challenge was and um you know so the big challenge was and um you know so the big challenge was I think for like 20 or 30 years there's I think for like 20 or 30 years there's I think for like 20 or 30 years there's just these generations that grew up and just these generations that grew up and just these generations that grew up and it was like we just don't know what to it was like we just don't know what to it was like we just don't know what to do like there's no real rules anyway and do like there's no real rules anyway and do like there's no real rules anyway and so I think it just became like a so I think it just became like a so I think it just became like a household by household thing. I wasn't household by household thing. I wasn't household by household thing. I wasn't allowed to date till I was 17. And then allowed to date till I was 17. And then allowed to date till I was 17. And then when I was allowed to date, quote, when I was allowed to date, quote, when I was allowed to date, quote, allowed to date, I had no idea what to allowed to date, I had no idea what to allowed to date, I had no idea what to do. My dad didn't teach me anything.

do. My dad didn't teach me anything. do. My dad didn't teach me anything. >> I was going to say, good call or bad >> I was going to say, good call or bad >> I was going to say, good call or bad caller? caller? caller? >> Bad Well, bad call in the sense of once >> Bad Well, bad call in the sense of once >> Bad Well, bad call in the sense of once I was allowed to quote, I didn't know I was allowed to quote, I didn't know I was allowed to quote, I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know >> what the heck I was doing. I was just >> what the heck I was doing. I was just >> what the heck I was doing. I was just screwing around when I I didn't date screwing around when I I didn't date screwing around when I I didn't date until I was 24. until I was 24. until I was 24. >> Uh just you were allowed to. >> Uh just you were allowed to. >> Uh just you were allowed to. >> Yeah. Even though I was allowed to. I >> Yeah. Even though I was allowed to. I >> Yeah. Even though I was allowed to. I just uh I would talk to girls, but I just uh I would talk to girls, but I just uh I would talk to girls, but I didn't really date and put myself out didn't really date and put myself out didn't really date and put myself out there until 24 years old, I'd say. Uh there until 24 years old, I'd say. Uh there until 24 years old, I'd say. Uh and even when I did, I still had no idea and even when I did, I still had no idea and even when I did, I still had no idea what to do. Like I just didn't have a what to do. Like I just didn't have a what to do. Like I just didn't have a set of rules. I set of rules. I set of rules. I >> got this point, right? Like he's like a >> got this point, right? Like he's like a >> got this point, right? Like he's like a lot of young men, Gen Z men, lot of young men, Gen Z men, lot of young men, Gen Z men, >> never talked to, never approached a >> never talked to, never approached a >> never talked to, never approached a woman in real life. Don't know what to woman in real life. Don't know what to woman in real life. Don't know what to say, don't know what to do. say, don't know what to do. say, don't know what to do. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> I I grew up like in the 70s and 80s, >> I I grew up like in the 70s and 80s, >> I I grew up like in the 70s and 80s, that's where my ideas were formed. And that's where my ideas were formed. And that's where my ideas were formed. And it was basically sex and dating was a it was basically sex and dating was a it was basically sex and dating was a lot of don'ts. lot of don'ts. lot of don'ts. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And not a lot of dos. >> And not a lot of dos. >> And not a lot of dos. >> Just like kind of like purity culture, >> Just like kind of like purity culture, >> Just like kind of like purity culture, but not that extreme. It probably fed but not that extreme. It probably fed but not that extreme. It probably fed into purity culture, but it was a whole into purity culture, but it was a whole into purity culture, but it was a whole lot of just like lot of just like lot of just like >> Yeah. I don't really know what a healthy >> Yeah. I don't really know what a healthy >> Yeah. I don't really know what a healthy dating looks like. I don't know what a dating looks like. I don't know what a dating looks like. I don't know what a healthy relationship with a woman. All healthy relationship with a woman. All healthy relationship with a woman. All I've seen is my parents like I've seen is my parents like I've seen is my parents like >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And they've been married six over 60 >> And they've been married six over 60 >> And they've been married six over 60 years. It felt like such a segmented, years. It felt like such a segmented, years. It felt like such a segmented, compartmentalized, compartmentalized, compartmentalized, super high stake, pressure field, just super high stake, pressure field, just super high stake, pressure field, just arena instead of it just being learning arena instead of it just being learning arena instead of it just being learning how to build friendship how to build friendship how to build friendship >> with a woman with a romantic interest. >> with a woman with a romantic interest. >> with a woman with a romantic interest. And when you depressurize, it actually And when you depressurize, it actually And when you depressurize, it actually really allows you to connect with them really allows you to connect with them really allows you to connect with them instead of just sizing them up for instead of just sizing them up for instead of just sizing them up for marriage on the get-go. Uh, and then marriage on the get-go. Uh, and then marriage on the get-go. Uh, and then two, I actually think it allows you to two, I actually think it allows you to two, I actually think it allows you to show up way better as a man and as a show up way better as a man and as a show up way better as a man and as a woman. Like woman. Like woman. Like >> so you asked about a controversial >> so you asked about a controversial >> so you asked about a controversial thought that we have actually you saying thought that we have actually you saying thought that we have actually you saying that makes me think of don't date for that makes me think of don't date for that makes me think of don't date for marriage. Okay. Now that sounds very marriage. Okay. Now that sounds very marriage. Okay. Now that sounds very controversial. controversial. controversial. >> That's what you would say. >> That's what you would say. >> That's what you would say. >> Yes. Do not date for marriage. >> Yes. Do not date for marriage. >> Yes. Do not date for marriage. >> But you got to understand what I'm >> But you got to understand what I'm >> But you got to understand what I'm saying behind that is that we have put saying behind that is that we have put saying behind that is that we have put so much pressure on dating that going on so much pressure on dating that going on so much pressure on dating that going on a date means something way more than it a date means something way more than it a date means something way more than it should. should. should. >> And why are people not asking people out >> And why are people not asking people out >> And why are people not asking people out in the church? Why is nothing happening? in the church? Why is nothing happening? in the church? Why is nothing happening? Because there's so much pressure. It's Because there's so much pressure. It's Because there's so much pressure. It's like I can't. A guy feels in a church like I can't. A guy feels in a church like I can't. A guy feels in a church culture. If he asks a girl out, that's culture. If he asks a girl out, that's culture. If he asks a girl out, that's his one chance in that church community.

his one chance in that church community. his one chance in that church community. So if it doesn't go well, then he has no So if it doesn't go well, then he has no So if it doesn't go well, then he has no other options. This is how he feels. And other options. This is how he feels. And other options. This is how he feels. And on the girl side, they end up talking on the girl side, they end up talking on the girl side, they end up talking poorly about him. So it's kind of poorly about him. So it's kind of poorly about him. So it's kind of legitimate that the guy feels that way. legitimate that the guy feels that way. legitimate that the guy feels that way. >> Blew my one shot. >> Blew my one shot. >> Blew my one shot. >> Yeah. He gets roasted in the group, >> Yeah. He gets roasted in the group, >> Yeah. He gets roasted in the group, >> you know. Exactly. And the girl >> you know. Exactly. And the girl >> you know. Exactly. And the girl blacklists him and is like, "Don't date blacklists him and is like, "Don't date blacklists him and is like, "Don't date this guy cuz this, that, and the other." this guy cuz this, that, and the other." this guy cuz this, that, and the other." And so obviously we have a lot to say on And so obviously we have a lot to say on And so obviously we have a lot to say on that, but I think the point is why why that, but I think the point is why why that, but I think the point is why why let's depressurize it. Go on a date to let's depressurize it. Go on a date to let's depressurize it. Go on a date to see if you want to be in a relationship see if you want to be in a relationship see if you want to be in a relationship with that person. Dating should be the with that person. Dating should be the with that person. Dating should be the means to figure out if you want to be in means to figure out if you want to be in means to figure out if you want to be in a relationship. Relationship is to a relationship. Relationship is to a relationship. Relationship is to figure out if you want to get engaged. figure out if you want to get engaged. figure out if you want to get engaged. So the stages of dating shouldn't be So the stages of dating shouldn't be So the stages of dating shouldn't be single, dating, engaged, married. It single, dating, engaged, married. It single, dating, engaged, married. It should be single, dating, relationship, should be single, dating, relationship, should be single, dating, relationship, engaged, married. relationship is where engaged, married. relationship is where engaged, married. relationship is where hey we are committed we're IG official hey we are committed we're IG official hey we are committed we're IG official okay I am bring to my family gatherings okay I am bring to my family gatherings okay I am bring to my family gatherings soft launch and hard launch that soft launch and hard launch that soft launch and hard launch that >> please explain okay >> please explain okay >> please explain okay >> oh gosh the hard launch >> oh gosh the hard launch >> oh gosh the hard launch >> soft launch is this >> soft launch is this >> soft launch is this >> yeah just a photo on Instagram >> yeah just a photo on Instagram >> yeah just a photo on Instagram >> of our hands soft launch somebody now >> of our hands soft launch somebody now >> of our hands soft launch somebody now I'm I have someone you know you can see I'm I have someone you know you can see I'm I have someone you know you can see us we're official us we're official us we're official >> oh wow >> oh wow >> oh wow >> officially tagged you know >> officially tagged you know >> officially tagged you know >> just to be helpful you know >> just to be helpful you know >> just to be helpful you know >> soft launch hard launch >> soft launch hard launch >> soft launch hard launch >> okay Yeah. Yeah. It's like a tease >> okay Yeah. Yeah. It's like a tease >> okay Yeah. Yeah. It's like a tease versus the the real thing.

versus the the real thing. versus the the real thing. >> So, is the hard launch the engagement or >> So, is the hard launch the engagement or >> So, is the hard launch the engagement or no, you're just a couple. no, you're just a couple. no, you're just a couple. >> Most people hard launch when you're in >> Most people hard launch when you're in >> Most people hard launch when you're in exclusive relationship. exclusive relationship. exclusive relationship. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But some people are hard launching and >> But some people are hard launching and >> But some people are hard launching and they've went on three dates and I'm they've went on three dates and I'm they've went on three dates and I'm like, what are you doing? You don't know like, what are you doing? You don't know like, what are you doing? You don't know this person yet. Stop it. this person yet. Stop it. this person yet. Stop it. >> Yeah. There's all these unwritten rules, >> Yeah. There's all these unwritten rules, >> Yeah. There's all these unwritten rules, right? right? right? >> Right. And it's that hyperintentional >> Right. And it's that hyperintentional >> Right. And it's that hyperintentional culture I think that gets us in a lot of culture I think that gets us in a lot of culture I think that gets us in a lot of trouble. trouble. trouble. >> So, ours was ours was, "Do you want to >> So, ours was ours was, "Do you want to >> So, ours was ours was, "Do you want to go out with me?" go out with me?" go out with me?" >> That was it. And then it was like, >> That was it. And then it was like, >> That was it. And then it was like, "Well, this isn't working out." Well, we "Well, this isn't working out." Well, we "Well, this isn't working out." Well, we didn't know. didn't know. didn't know. >> I don't know what it meant. I asked >> I don't know what it meant. I asked >> I don't know what it meant. I asked girls, "Do you want to go out with me?" girls, "Do you want to go out with me?" girls, "Do you want to go out with me?" And they're like, "Yeah." And then you And they're like, "Yeah." And then you And they're like, "Yeah." And then you go to the show and you're like, "Well, go to the show and you're like, "Well, go to the show and you're like, "Well, that wasn't very interesting." And then that wasn't very interesting." And then that wasn't very interesting." And then you just go and do it again. And I guess you just go and do it again. And I guess you just go and do it again. And I guess if you do it enough times, you break up if you do it enough times, you break up if you do it enough times, you break up with somebody. with somebody. with somebody. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Right. Like, I don't know. I mean, but >> Right. Like, I don't know. I mean, but >> Right. Like, I don't know. I mean, but now it's all But that was all private. now it's all But that was all private. now it's all But that was all private. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That was all private. It wasn't public. >> That was all private. It wasn't public. >> That was all private. It wasn't public. We weren't posting to each other's We weren't posting to each other's We weren't posting to each other's profiles. But now the word date is is so profiles. But now the word date is is so profiles. But now the word date is is so ambiguous ambiguous ambiguous >> cuz back in your day, I'm sorry, that >> cuz back in your day, I'm sorry, that >> cuz back in your day, I'm sorry, that just just just That's why we're doing this back in your That's why we're doing this back in your That's why we're doing this back in your day. day. day. >> Back in your day. No, truly people guys >> Back in your day. No, truly people guys >> Back in your day. No, truly people guys could ask a girl out and it's like this could ask a girl out and it's like this could ask a girl out and it's like this isn't a marriage proposal. Okay, we're isn't a marriage proposal. Okay, we're isn't a marriage proposal. Okay, we're just going. Is that true? That was% just going. Is that true? That was% just going. Is that true? That was% you were expected to date. You were you were expected to date. You were you were expected to date. You were expected to break up five, six, seven expected to break up five, six, seven expected to break up five, six, seven times long before you found someone. The times long before you found someone. The times long before you found someone. The pressure was low. I mean, where it got pressure was low. I mean, where it got pressure was low. I mean, where it got serious is where you started talking serious is where you started talking serious is where you started talking about engagement. Like, is this about engagement. Like, is this about engagement. Like, is this something? And there were a couple of something? And there were a couple of something? And there were a couple of girls that I dated before I met Tony girls that I dated before I met Tony girls that I dated before I met Tony where that was a conversation and then where that was a conversation and then where that was a conversation and then I'm like, "No, this is not going to go I'm like, "No, this is not going to go I'm like, "No, this is not going to go well." And so that then it gets awkward.

well." And so that then it gets awkward. well." And so that then it gets awkward. Then Then Then >> as a as a 30-year-old hearing that >> as a as a 30-year-old hearing that >> as a as a 30-year-old hearing that though, that blows my mind. though, that blows my mind. though, that blows my mind. >> Why? >> Why? >> Why? >> Because that's unheard of. Like that for >> Because that's unheard of. Like that for >> Because that's unheard of. Like that for me is like I can't even fathom just me is like I can't even fathom just me is like I can't even fathom just walking up to a girl and be like, it's walking up to a girl and be like, it's walking up to a girl and be like, it's mutually understood to, hey, do you want mutually understood to, hey, do you want mutually understood to, hey, do you want to go out? And it's just a like a to go out? And it's just a like a to go out? And it's just a like a friendship hangout. friendship hangout. friendship hangout. >> So then what what happens now then? So >> So then what what happens now then? So >> So then what what happens now then? So what happens now is because of the what happens now is because of the what happens now is because of the outskirts of IKA stating goodbye and outskirts of IKA stating goodbye and outskirts of IKA stating goodbye and just unwritten like things now we don't just unwritten like things now we don't just unwritten like things now we don't ask people out because it's way too much ask people out because it's way too much ask people out because it's way too much pressure because somebody of the pair pressure because somebody of the pair pressure because somebody of the pair probably has a high expectation of what probably has a high expectation of what probably has a high expectation of what that means that means that means >> like it's almost like a marriage >> like it's almost like a marriage >> like it's almost like a marriage proposal. proposal. proposal. >> So what do you say? Do you want to grab >> So what do you say? Do you want to grab >> So what do you say? Do you want to grab coffee? coffee? coffee? >> No, you should say I want to go on a >> No, you should say I want to go on a >> No, you should say I want to go on a date with you. I want to get to know date with you. I want to get to know date with you. I want to get to know you. But we need to rewrite the you. But we need to rewrite the you. But we need to rewrite the definition of like what a date is. And definition of like what a date is. And definition of like what a date is. And that's what we're trying to do. And that's what we're trying to do. And that's what we're trying to do. And that's what I think leaders and pastors that's what I think leaders and pastors that's what I think leaders and pastors can do in their community. If they're can do in their community. If they're can do in their community. If they're leading a community, have tons of leading a community, have tons of leading a community, have tons of singles, like they need to emphasize, singles, like they need to emphasize, singles, like they need to emphasize, guys, you should be able to go on dates, guys, you should be able to go on dates, guys, you should be able to go on dates, it not work out, and you still show up it not work out, and you still show up it not work out, and you still show up to church and you're okay.

to church and you're okay. to church and you're okay. >> And you can be I Okay, this is why we're >> And you can be I Okay, this is why we're >> And you can be I Okay, this is why we're doing this stuff. I am so dumb on this doing this stuff. I am so dumb on this doing this stuff. I am so dumb on this stuff. Like, I thought I'm dumb. I'm stuff. Like, I thought I'm dumb. I'm stuff. Like, I thought I'm dumb. I'm like really dumb. I really don't know like really dumb. I really don't know like really dumb. I really don't know what's going on. But like I would assume what's going on. But like I would assume what's going on. But like I would assume that you could just ask someone out that you could just ask someone out that you could just ask someone out like, "Hey, you know, if I was single like, "Hey, you know, if I was single like, "Hey, you know, if I was single today, I'd be like,"Hey, you want to today, I'd be like,"Hey, you want to today, I'd be like,"Hey, you want to grab coffee? You're kind of an grab coffee? You're kind of an grab coffee? You're kind of an interesting person, you know, whatever." interesting person, you know, whatever." interesting person, you know, whatever." And maybe, you know, obviously if And maybe, you know, obviously if And maybe, you know, obviously if they're my generation, they might they're my generation, they might they're my generation, they might understand that because they have the understand that because they have the understand that because they have the same life experience that I do. same life experience that I do. same life experience that I do. >> But if you were to take my life >> But if you were to take my life >> But if you were to take my life experience and put it in a 30-year-old, experience and put it in a 30-year-old, experience and put it in a 30-year-old, I would just be like, "Hey, you want to I would just be like, "Hey, you want to I would just be like, "Hey, you want to grab coffee or go see a show or grab coffee or go see a show or grab coffee or go see a show or something like that?" And I'd be like, something like that?" And I'd be like, something like that?" And I'd be like, "Blah blah blah." You know, that that's "Blah blah blah." You know, that that's "Blah blah blah." You know, that that's fine. fine. fine. >> Yeah. and you're like, "No, wait, wait." >> Yeah. and you're like, "No, wait, wait." >> Yeah. and you're like, "No, wait, wait." >> Well, the other person, you might be >> Well, the other person, you might be >> Well, the other person, you might be like that. That's great. But the other like that. That's great. But the other like that. That's great. But the other person's most likely not. person's most likely not. person's most likely not. >> And that's where we need the leaders to >> And that's where we need the leaders to >> And that's where we need the leaders to step in these cultures of singles to step in these cultures of singles to step in these cultures of singles to depressurize it because if they hear depressurize it because if they hear depressurize it because if they hear their leaders talking about like, "Let's their leaders talking about like, "Let's their leaders talking about like, "Let's depressurize this. It's just coffee. depressurize this. It's just coffee. depressurize this. It's just coffee. It's just tacos. It's like it's not a It's just tacos. It's like it's not a It's just tacos. It's like it's not a big deal." Now there's some parameters big deal." Now there's some parameters big deal." Now there's some parameters like don't make out with this person on like don't make out with this person on like don't make out with this person on the first date, you know, like that's the first date, you know, like that's the first date, you know, like that's where it becomes awkward. Don't like where it becomes awkward. Don't like where it becomes awkward. Don't like bring her, you know, 24 roses on the bring her, you know, 24 roses on the bring her, you know, 24 roses on the first date. I mean, first date. I mean, first date. I mean, >> this is just a 60inute hangout with >> this is just a 60inute hangout with >> this is just a 60inute hangout with somebody that you're interested in. And somebody that you're interested in. And somebody that you're interested in. And if it doesn't work, that's also fine.

if it doesn't work, that's also fine. if it doesn't work, that's also fine. >> Hey, coffee was fine. Probably won't do >> Hey, coffee was fine. Probably won't do >> Hey, coffee was fine. Probably won't do it again. it again. it again. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yeah. And here's the thing I got to in >> Yeah. And here's the thing I got to in >> Yeah. And here's the thing I got to in my dating life, which I am proud of, is my dating life, which I am proud of, is my dating life, which I am proud of, is I would go out with guys one, two times, I would go out with guys one, two times, I would go out with guys one, two times, maybe three, realize this isn't for me, maybe three, realize this isn't for me, maybe three, realize this isn't for me, but this guy could be great for a friend but this guy could be great for a friend but this guy could be great for a friend of mine, actually. of mine, actually. of mine, actually. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> And actually, if you're open to it, I >> And actually, if you're open to it, I >> And actually, if you're open to it, I might Would you be open to me setting might Would you be open to me setting might Would you be open to me setting you up with one of my friends? you up with one of my friends? you up with one of my friends? >> Super uncommon. >> Super uncommon. >> Super uncommon. >> And I >> And I >> And I Yes. But I would try to set guys up with Yes. But I would try to set guys up with Yes. But I would try to set guys up with other girls. I knew because I was like, other girls. I knew because I was like, other girls. I knew because I was like, I don't think this is going to be it for I don't think this is going to be it for I don't think this is going to be it for me, me, me, >> but you're still a good guy. What about >> but you're still a good guy. What about >> but you're still a good guy. What about one of my friends? And I did hook some one of my friends? And I did hook some one of my friends? And I did hook some guys up with some of my friends. Wow. guys up with some of my friends. Wow. guys up with some of my friends. Wow. >> That is one thing in culture today >> That is one thing in culture today >> That is one thing in culture today that's like unheard of, you know, to try that's like unheard of, you know, to try that's like unheard of, you know, to try and do that. and do that. and do that. >> So, I want to get to the rules. I want >> So, I want to get to the rules. I want >> So, I want to get to the rules. I want to back up again a little bit more and to back up again a little bit more and to back up again a little bit more and then we'll come into like what should we then we'll come into like what should we then we'll come into like what should we do? Cuz do? Cuz do? Cuz >> maybe you guys are not as clueless as I >> maybe you guys are not as clueless as I >> maybe you guys are not as clueless as I am, but this is like a real education am, but this is like a real education am, but this is like a real education for me and this is why I wanted to have for me and this is why I wanted to have for me and this is why I wanted to have this conversation to talk about. this conversation to talk about. this conversation to talk about. >> Yeah. Because like honestly, we're doing >> Yeah. Because like honestly, we're doing >> Yeah. Because like honestly, we're doing relationship series based on relationship series based on relationship series based on >> decades old information that doesn't >> decades old information that doesn't >> decades old information that doesn't [clears throat] apply or a decade old.

[clears throat] apply or a decade old. [clears throat] apply or a decade old. Like I'm sure in the life cycle of Gen Like I'm sure in the life cycle of Gen Like I'm sure in the life cycle of Gen Z, you know, if you're 40, you're Z, you know, if you're 40, you're Z, you know, if you're 40, you're ancient, right? Like you don't you don't ancient, right? Like you don't you don't ancient, right? Like you don't you don't know what's going on. You've been know what's going on. You've been know what's going on. You've been married for 15 years. You don't get it. married for 15 years. You don't get it. married for 15 years. You don't get it. You were on AOL. You're not you're not You were on AOL. You're not you're not You were on AOL. You're not you're not in our world. But you said you had in our world. But you said you had in our world. But you said you had >> some bad dating experiences and some >> some bad dating experiences and some >> some bad dating experiences and some good dating experiences. And I know that good dating experiences. And I know that good dating experiences. And I know that you've been pretty public about that. you've been pretty public about that. you've been pretty public about that. So, So, So, >> you know, were you a Christian at the >> you know, were you a Christian at the >> you know, were you a Christian at the time? How did that happen growing up? time? How did that happen growing up? time? How did that happen growing up? Like just to the com the the extent that Like just to the com the the extent that Like just to the com the the extent that you're comfortable sharing what you're comfortable sharing what you're comfortable sharing what happened, Kate? happened, Kate? happened, Kate? >> Yeah, I didn't really I grew up >> Yeah, I didn't really I grew up >> Yeah, I didn't really I grew up Catholic, became more of a Christian in Catholic, became more of a Christian in Catholic, became more of a Christian in high school, but I was a very loose high school, but I was a very loose high school, but I was a very loose Christian, I would say. It wasn't until Christian, I would say. It wasn't until Christian, I would say. It wasn't until after a really hard relationship. So, after a really hard relationship. So, after a really hard relationship. So, right before I get to that, I right before I get to that, I right before I get to that, I >> definitely saw identity out and >> definitely saw identity out and >> definitely saw identity out and affirmation from men. And so, high affirmation from men. And so, high affirmation from men. And so, high school, I was a serial dater. I dated school, I was a serial dater. I dated school, I was a serial dater. I dated all the guys. You all the guys. You all the guys. You >> started at what age? everybody at around >> started at what age? everybody at around >> started at what age? everybody at around 14, 13, 14. And I there was a decade of 14, 13, 14. And I there was a decade of 14, 13, 14. And I there was a decade of my life of dating basically non-stop of my life of dating basically non-stop of my life of dating basically non-stop of never being single ever pretty much for never being single ever pretty much for never being single ever pretty much for more than a week or two at a time. And more than a week or two at a time. And more than a week or two at a time. And so I always was recycling through guys.

so I always was recycling through guys. so I always was recycling through guys. It sounds horrible. Um now some of that It sounds horrible. Um now some of that It sounds horrible. Um now some of that I did have longer periods of I did have longer periods of I did have longer periods of relationships. I dated a guy for 5 years relationships. I dated a guy for 5 years relationships. I dated a guy for 5 years and that that was also still very and that that was also still very and that that was also still very unhealthy. But you know in that I unhealthy. But you know in that I unhealthy. But you know in that I crossed boundaries. I just I really did crossed boundaries. I just I really did crossed boundaries. I just I really did things that I wasn't that wasn't good things that I wasn't that wasn't good things that I wasn't that wasn't good for me because I wanted to get for me because I wanted to get for me because I wanted to get connection and I wanted to seek that connection and I wanted to seek that connection and I wanted to seek that male affirmation and so I a lot of that male affirmation and so I a lot of that male affirmation and so I a lot of that came also into the belief systems I had came also into the belief systems I had came also into the belief systems I had about myself were really negative and I about myself were really negative and I about myself were really negative and I was internally self-abusive I would say was internally self-abusive I would say was internally self-abusive I would say and so at the end of that 10ear stint I and so at the end of that 10ear stint I and so at the end of that 10ear stint I started dating a guy who was very started dating a guy who was very started dating a guy who was very abusive and started emotionally it abusive and started emotionally it abusive and started emotionally it became physically abusive And became physically abusive And became physically abusive And >> and this was a Christian guy. >> and this was a Christian guy. >> and this was a Christian guy. >> Yes, it was a Christian guy. >> Yes, it was a Christian guy. >> Yes, it was a Christian guy. [clears throat] Yes. [clears throat] Yes. [clears throat] Yes. >> And actually, he broke up with me once >> And actually, he broke up with me once >> And actually, he broke up with me once because he said I wasn't Christian because he said I wasn't Christian because he said I wasn't Christian enough for him. It's so funny. But enough for him. It's so funny. But enough for him. It's so funny. But anyway, we did this whole song and dance anyway, we did this whole song and dance anyway, we did this whole song and dance of breaking up, getting back together so of breaking up, getting back together so of breaking up, getting back together so many times. Uh many times. Uh many times. Uh >> and that's a pretty typical pattern. >> and that's a pretty typical pattern. >> and that's a pretty typical pattern. >> Yeah. Mhm. And uh so the the that >> Yeah. Mhm. And uh so the the that >> Yeah. Mhm. And uh so the the that relationship was my first exposure to relationship was my first exposure to relationship was my first exposure to gaslighting, cheating, um yeah, gaslighting, cheating, um yeah, gaslighting, cheating, um yeah, eventually actual physical abuse. And I eventually actual physical abuse. And I eventually actual physical abuse. And I did get a restraining order on him, but did get a restraining order on him, but did get a restraining order on him, but it was a whole season of I I didn't even it was a whole season of I I didn't even it was a whole season of I I didn't even believe the restraining order because I believe the restraining order because I believe the restraining order because I was already in this mindset of I made was already in this mindset of I made was already in this mindset of I made things up and I'm crazy and I'm the things up and I'm crazy and I'm the things up and I'm crazy and I'm the problem. And so there's a lot to unpack problem. And so there's a lot to unpack problem. And so there's a lot to unpack there, but that relationship ended and there, but that relationship ended and there, but that relationship ended and I'm so grateful because I feel like that

I'm so grateful because I feel like that I'm so grateful because I feel like that was a crossroads in my life of either was a crossroads in my life of either was a crossroads in my life of either I'm going away from the Lord and I'm I'm going away from the Lord and I'm I'm going away from the Lord and I'm just going to go into this dark dark just going to go into this dark dark just going to go into this dark dark place or I could run into a healthy place or I could run into a healthy place or I could run into a healthy community, run into the Lord and really community, run into the Lord and really community, run into the Lord and really seek healing. And I was in an unhealthy seek healing. And I was in an unhealthy seek healing. And I was in an unhealthy church community at the time. I left church community at the time. I left church community at the time. I left that church community, left this guy and that church community, left this guy and that church community, left this guy and got embraced into a really healthy got embraced into a really healthy got embraced into a really healthy community, really healthy friendships community, really healthy friendships community, really healthy friendships and started a really long journey of and started a really long journey of and started a really long journey of healing. And um so I took a season off healing. And um so I took a season off healing. And um so I took a season off dating for the first time in my life and dating for the first time in my life and dating for the first time in my life and like around 23 24 like around 23 24 like around 23 24 >> and I was like no dating for me. This is >> and I was like no dating for me. This is >> and I was like no dating for me. This is I need to figure out I need to figure out I need to figure out >> age 23 24. >> age 23 24. >> age 23 24. >> Yeah. I was like I need to figure out >> Yeah. I was like I need to figure out >> Yeah. I was like I need to figure out who I am outside of men. like I just who I am outside of men. like I just who I am outside of men. like I just didn't really know who I was because I didn't really know who I was because I didn't really know who I was because I had dated so much and I lost myself in had dated so much and I lost myself in had dated so much and I lost myself in that. And so that was my season of that. And so that was my season of that. And so that was my season of intense healing and and therapy, first intense healing and and therapy, first intense healing and and therapy, first exposure to therapy. exposure to therapy. exposure to therapy. >> And it was when I was coming back on the >> And it was when I was coming back on the >> And it was when I was coming back on the scene to date that I was researching all scene to date that I was researching all scene to date that I was researching all the stuff to know about how to do it.

the stuff to know about how to do it. the stuff to know about how to do it. Right. Right. Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> And this I still hearted dating hadn't >> And this I still hearted dating hadn't >> And this I still hearted dating hadn't started yet, but that was when I was started yet, but that was when I was started yet, but that was when I was trying to and I started dating again in trying to and I started dating again in trying to and I started dating again in a new way. Still lots of bumps in the a new way. Still lots of bumps in the a new way. Still lots of bumps in the road. Okay. Still didn't always date the road. Okay. Still didn't always date the road. Okay. Still didn't always date the right guy. Still sometimes was attracted right guy. Still sometimes was attracted right guy. Still sometimes was attracted to the guy that said the right thing, to the guy that said the right thing, to the guy that said the right thing, but and I got hooked on it versus seeing but and I got hooked on it versus seeing but and I got hooked on it versus seeing his character, you know. his character, you know. his character, you know. >> And so, but I learned a lot through that >> And so, but I learned a lot through that >> And so, but I learned a lot through that second phase of my life in dating. And second phase of my life in dating. And second phase of my life in dating. And that's when I started Heart of Dating. that's when I started Heart of Dating. that's when I started Heart of Dating. And so, I kind of feel like And so, I kind of feel like And so, I kind of feel like >> And when was that? What year, right? >> And when was that? What year, right? >> And when was that? What year, right? >> It uh 2018. >> It uh 2018. >> It uh 2018. Heart of Yeah. Yeah. So, and that came Heart of Yeah. Yeah. So, and that came Heart of Yeah. Yeah. So, and that came off the heels of another huge breakup I off the heels of another huge breakup I off the heels of another huge breakup I went through, went through, went through, >> man. >> man. >> man. >> To a Christian guy who was a decent guy >> To a Christian guy who was a decent guy >> To a Christian guy who was a decent guy and just still saw that I was still and just still saw that I was still and just still saw that I was still deeply insecure. And it was a really deeply insecure. And it was a really deeply insecure. And it was a really helpful thing that he broke up for with helpful thing that he broke up for with helpful thing that he broke up for with me. My first book is called Thank You me. My first book is called Thank You me. My first book is called Thank You for Rejecting Me. And a lot of that I for Rejecting Me. And a lot of that I for Rejecting Me. And a lot of that I attribute even to that relationship and attribute even to that relationship and attribute even to that relationship and him ending it because I needed to be him ending it because I needed to be him ending it because I needed to be broken up with in order to really broken up with in order to really broken up with in order to really realize, wait, this is the final time, realize, wait, this is the final time, realize, wait, this is the final time, Kate. you are not putting your identity Kate. you are not putting your identity Kate. you are not putting your identity in relationships anymore. Like this has in relationships anymore. Like this has in relationships anymore. Like this has got to stop. So heart of dating began.

got to stop. So heart of dating began. got to stop. So heart of dating began. And but yeah, that's a lot of my journey And but yeah, that's a lot of my journey And but yeah, that's a lot of my journey is dating. I dated all different kinds is dating. I dated all different kinds is dating. I dated all different kinds of guys. Every any guy under the sun is of guys. Every any guy under the sun is of guys. Every any guy under the sun is what I've dated in the past, [laughter] what I've dated in the past, [laughter] what I've dated in the past, [laughter] >> including guys with blue hair. >> including guys with blue hair. >> including guys with blue hair. >> Including guys with blue hair. >> Including guys with blue hair. >> Including guys with blue hair. >> See the rainbow, taste the rainbow, date >> See the rainbow, taste the rainbow, date >> See the rainbow, taste the rainbow, date the rainbow, [laughter] the rainbow, [laughter] the rainbow, [laughter] >> and actually indeed dated some guys that >> and actually indeed dated some guys that >> and actually indeed dated some guys that were that went the other way eventually. were that went the other way eventually. were that went the other way eventually. So there you go. [laughter] So there you go. [laughter] So there you go. [laughter] So, you know, one of the things I've So, you know, one of the things I've So, you know, one of the things I've picked up just with some of our younger picked up just with some of our younger picked up just with some of our younger friends and our our, you know, the friends and our our, you know, the friends and our our, you know, the people that I know that I track with is people that I know that I track with is people that I know that I track with is a lot of insecurity around dating. And a lot of insecurity around dating. And a lot of insecurity around dating. And guys are kind of afraid. You're either guys are kind of afraid. You're either guys are kind of afraid. You're either the super macho type that just, you the super macho type that just, you the super macho type that just, you know, going going out to conquest or know, going going out to conquest or know, going going out to conquest or you're kind of afraid to date because you're kind of afraid to date because you're kind of afraid to date because you don't know where the trip lines are. you don't know where the trip lines are. you don't know where the trip lines are. You don't want to hurt people. And then You don't want to hurt people. And then You don't want to hurt people. And then women just feel so much pressure. That's women just feel so much pressure. That's women just feel so much pressure. That's what I'm picking up. So I'd love for you what I'm picking up. So I'd love for you what I'm picking up. So I'd love for you to walk us through to walk us through to walk us through some of we started this already, but some of we started this already, but some of we started this already, but some of the dynamics of dating today.

some of the dynamics of dating today. some of the dynamics of dating today. Just we'll leave it there because I'm Just we'll leave it there because I'm Just we'll leave it there because I'm just going to assume if you're of a just going to assume if you're of a just going to assume if you're of a certain age, you don't know what's going certain age, you don't know what's going certain age, you don't know what's going on. And but if you're dating today on. And but if you're dating today on. And but if you're dating today through your experience and then now through your experience and then now through your experience and then now you're counseling people 10, 15 years you're counseling people 10, 15 years you're counseling people 10, 15 years younger than you, you know, who are younger than you, you know, who are younger than you, you know, who are probably late teenagers, early 20s, what probably late teenagers, early 20s, what probably late teenagers, early 20s, what are what are people facing when they're are what are people facing when they're are what are people facing when they're dating now? >> There's some big issues in dating right >> There's some big issues in dating right now. Do you want to go into the male and now. Do you want to go into the male and now. Do you want to go into the male and female dynamic? female dynamic? female dynamic? >> Well, my first thought was I that might >> Well, my first thought was I that might >> Well, my first thought was I that might be helpful for you is the the dating be helpful for you is the the dating be helpful for you is the the dating rule book. Everyone has a different set rule book. Everyone has a different set rule book. Everyone has a different set of rules. of rules. of rules. >> Great. >> Great. >> Great. >> That's what's probably causing the most >> That's what's probably causing the most >> That's what's probably causing the most chaos chaos chaos >> that that there is no rule book. >> that that there is no rule book. >> that that there is no rule book. >> Yeah. The dating, it's called the dating >> Yeah. The dating, it's called the dating >> Yeah. The dating, it's called the dating sequence sequence sequence uh of man asks out girl, girl says yes, uh of man asks out girl, girl says yes, uh of man asks out girl, girl says yes, man plans a date, man pays for the date, man plans a date, man pays for the date, man plans a date, man pays for the date, man drops off the girl, you know, xyz. man drops off the girl, you know, xyz. man drops off the girl, you know, xyz. Like that whole sequence now is kind of Like that whole sequence now is kind of Like that whole sequence now is kind of jumbled up. It's really unclear what the jumbled up. It's really unclear what the jumbled up. It's really unclear what the rules are, what the steps should be, and rules are, what the steps should be, and rules are, what the steps should be, and that contributes to a lot of the chaos.

that contributes to a lot of the chaos. that contributes to a lot of the chaos. Like, if you could be in a 30-year-old Like, if you could be in a 30-year-old Like, if you could be in a 30-year-old body and single and dating, like your body and single and dating, like your body and single and dating, like your rule book is very, very different. rule book is very, very different. rule book is very, very different. >> And so, I just think it's really >> And so, I just think it's really >> And so, I just think it's really helpful. Even what just Kate just said helpful. Even what just Kate just said helpful. Even what just Kate just said about the the steps and stages of about the the steps and stages of about the the steps and stages of relationship, just having the same rule relationship, just having the same rule relationship, just having the same rule book or expectations could be so book or expectations could be so book or expectations could be so helpful. like for church communities if helpful. like for church communities if helpful. like for church communities if they just could get they just could get they just could get >> you know some I I know we don't need >> you know some I I know we don't need >> you know some I I know we don't need more rules we just need a framework that more rules we just need a framework that more rules we just need a framework that can be helpful so that at least can be helpful so that at least can be helpful so that at least everybody in that church community can everybody in that church community can everybody in that church community can kind of understand hey a date doesn't kind of understand hey a date doesn't kind of understand hey a date doesn't mean a marriage proposal or dating is to mean a marriage proposal or dating is to mean a marriage proposal or dating is to figure out if you want to be in a figure out if you want to be in a figure out if you want to be in a relationship like if we could all try to relationship like if we could all try to relationship like if we could all try to get on those same pages it would help get on those same pages it would help get on those same pages it would help dating at least within that church dating at least within that church dating at least within that church >> can you go through those stages again >> can you go through those stages again >> can you go through those stages again the five stages of relationship the five stages of relationship the five stages of relationship >> so single we all know that you >> so single we all know that you >> so single we all know that you dating, which is an all-encompassing dating, which is an all-encompassing dating, which is an all-encompassing word by the way. I could say I'm dating, word by the way. I could say I'm dating, word by the way. I could say I'm dating, which means I went out on one date or which means I went out on one date or which means I went out on one date or I've dated them for six months, right? I've dated them for six months, right? I've dated them for six months, right? So dating has this like you have to So dating has this like you have to So dating has this like you have to define it and how we define it is it's define it and how we define it is it's define it and how we define it is it's the stage of building friendship the stage of building friendship the stage of building friendship intentionally getting to know someone to intentionally getting to know someone to intentionally getting to know someone to see if you want to be in a relationship.

see if you want to be in a relationship. see if you want to be in a relationship. Basically, you're gathering data. You're Basically, you're gathering data. You're Basically, you're gathering data. You're getting to know them. getting to know them. getting to know them. >> You're not making out with them. You're >> You're not making out with them. You're >> You're not making out with them. You're like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm >> Oh, so dating to you doesn't include >> Oh, so dating to you doesn't include >> Oh, so dating to you doesn't include making out? making out? making out? >> No. >> No. >> No. >> No. >> No. >> No. >> It's just like you're not holding hands. >> It's just like you're not holding hands. >> It's just like you're not holding hands. You're not soft launch. You're not soft launch. You're not soft launch. >> No, it's not super romantic. >> No, it's not super romantic. >> No, it's not super romantic. >> A really good rule of thumb is date for >> A really good rule of thumb is date for >> A really good rule of thumb is date for 90 days, non-exclusively, and at the end 90 days, non-exclusively, and at the end 90 days, non-exclusively, and at the end of 90 days, ask and see if you want to of 90 days, ask and see if you want to of 90 days, ask and see if you want to be in a relationship. be in a relationship. be in a relationship. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> People right now are doing it after two >> People right now are doing it after two >> People right now are doing it after two weeks. And we're like, you you don't weeks. And we're like, you you don't weeks. And we're like, you you don't know them unless you've been friends for know them unless you've been friends for know them unless you've been friends for years. Like, that's not why. And the years. Like, that's not why. And the years. Like, that's not why. And the whole point there is it's hard to walk whole point there is it's hard to walk whole point there is it's hard to walk away. Even when you're in a away. Even when you're in a away. Even when you're in a relationship, it's kind of hard to walk relationship, it's kind of hard to walk relationship, it's kind of hard to walk away and you've hyper committed to away and you've hyper committed to away and you've hyper committed to someone that you don't truly know. someone that you don't truly know. someone that you don't truly know. >> When you've hard launched on Instagram, >> When you've hard launched on Instagram, >> When you've hard launched on Instagram, it's hard to walk away from that, right? it's hard to walk away from that, right? it's hard to walk away from that, right? It's like It's like It's like >> one coffee date. It was amazing. We're >> one coffee date. It was amazing. We're >> one coffee date. It was amazing. We're official. official. official. >> It's the same thing for like premarital >> It's the same thing for like premarital >> It's the same thing for like premarital counseling. It doesn't make sense to counseling. It doesn't make sense to counseling. It doesn't make sense to propose, put a ring of on the finger, a propose, put a ring of on the finger, a propose, put a ring of on the finger, a wedding deposit down, and all these wedding deposit down, and all these wedding deposit down, and all these things, and then you go to premarital things, and then you go to premarital things, and then you go to premarital and get all the skeletons out of the and get all the skeletons out of the and get all the skeletons out of the closet. We're a big on pre-engagement closet. We're a big on pre-engagement closet. We're a big on pre-engagement because we think you should start because we think you should start because we think you should start talking about those things talking about those things talking about those things >> because it's hard to walk away once all >> because it's hard to walk away once all >> because it's hard to walk away once all those things are done.

those things are done. those things are done. >> It is. There's even for us there was so >> It is. There's even for us there was so >> It is. There's even for us there was so much pressure once you're engaged. If much pressure once you're engaged. If much pressure once you're engaged. If you broke off an engagement, you broke off an engagement, you broke off an engagement, >> that's crazy. >> that's crazy. >> that's crazy. >> That was a massive deal. Like Tony, I >> That was a massive deal. Like Tony, I >> That was a massive deal. Like Tony, I think I can say this. She's not private, think I can say this. She's not private, think I can say this. She's not private, but she broke off an engagement. It was but she broke off an engagement. It was but she broke off an engagement. It was the best thing she did. And I was almost the best thing she did. And I was almost the best thing she did. And I was almost engaged. And I'm like, engaged. And I'm like, engaged. And I'm like, >> I'm so glad I didn't. Cuz then you're >> I'm so glad I didn't. Cuz then you're >> I'm so glad I didn't. Cuz then you're like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, >> it's so hard to walk away. It is very >> it's so hard to walk away. It is very >> it's so hard to walk away. It is very And it still is now. So you want to And it still is now. So you want to And it still is now. So you want to gather that data before you make a big gather that data before you make a big gather that data before you make a big decision like committing because it is decision like committing because it is decision like committing because it is hard to walk away even if you know if hard to walk away even if you know if hard to walk away even if you know if it's the wrong rel relationship. it's the wrong rel relationship. it's the wrong rel relationship. >> So you're single, you're dating, but >> So you're single, you're dating, but >> So you're single, you're dating, but you're not physical. You're not making you're not physical. You're not making you're not physical. You're not making out, no handholding, no kissing. You're out, no handholding, no kissing. You're out, no handholding, no kissing. You're just exploring. Is there a basis for a just exploring. Is there a basis for a just exploring. Is there a basis for a relationship, a friendship? relationship, a friendship? relationship, a friendship? >> And then the third stage is >> And then the third stage is >> And then the third stage is >> and do I know enough to say I want to be >> and do I know enough to say I want to be >> and do I know enough to say I want to be in a relationship. So yeah, you're in a relationship. So yeah, you're in a relationship. So yeah, you're asking things about their character. asking things about their character. asking things about their character. You're getting to know values. You're You're getting to know values. You're You're getting to know values. You're getting to meet core people, but you're getting to meet core people, but you're getting to meet core people, but you're not introducing them to your entire not introducing them to your entire not introducing them to your entire friend group and being like, "Hey," friend group and being like, "Hey," friend group and being like, "Hey," >> right? You're not bringing them home for >> right? You're not bringing them home for >> right? You're not bringing them home for Thanksgiving or Christmas at that point Thanksgiving or Christmas at that point Thanksgiving or Christmas at that point >> because your closest people >> because your closest people >> because your closest people >> and and you know, for me it would be you >> and and you know, for me it would be you >> and and you know, for me it would be you mentioned values, but I would the the mentioned values, but I would the the mentioned values, but I would the the word that I would use is compatibility.

word that I would use is compatibility. word that I would use is compatibility. >> Are you are you basically compatible? >> Are you are you basically compatible? >> Are you are you basically compatible? Are you going to enjoy being potentially Are you going to enjoy being potentially Are you going to enjoy being potentially on a desert island or in a 5h hour car on a desert island or in a 5h hour car on a desert island or in a 5h hour car ride or the airport layover test, right? ride or the airport layover test, right? ride or the airport layover test, right? Where you're just stuck at the gate with Where you're just stuck at the gate with Where you're just stuck at the gate with somebody. somebody. somebody. >> And a last good C word is capable. Are >> And a last good C word is capable. Are >> And a last good C word is capable. Are they even capable of having a healthy they even capable of having a healthy they even capable of having a healthy relationship? relationship? relationship? >> Do they have the skills? Do the do they >> Do they have the skills? Do the do they >> Do they have the skills? Do the do they have the maturity to lean in and do have the maturity to lean in and do have the maturity to lean in and do healthy relation? healthy relation? healthy relation? Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, >> you can talk the talk, but can you put >> you can talk the talk, but can you put >> you can talk the talk, but can you put it to practice? it to practice? it to practice? >> And if you do that for a few months, >> And if you do that for a few months, >> And if you do that for a few months, you're going to know they're always you're going to know they're always you're going to know they're always late. They don't show up. they cancel at late. They don't show up. they cancel at late. They don't show up. they cancel at the last minute or they're always there the last minute or they're always there the last minute or they're always there and they're amazing and they're not you and they're amazing and they're not you and they're amazing and they're not you you'll pick up neediness right away. you'll pick up neediness right away. you'll pick up neediness right away. >> Can they have hard conversations? >> Can they have hard conversations? >> Can they have hard conversations? >> Can they can [clears throat] they take >> Can they can [clears throat] they take >> Can they can [clears throat] they take feedback and grow from it? That's feedback and grow from it? That's feedback and grow from it? That's probably the number one thing probably the number one thing probably the number one thing >> because in those first few weeks of >> because in those first few weeks of >> because in those first few weeks of dating you're there's no hard dating you're there's no hard dating you're there's no hard conversations yet. It's just fun. This conversations yet. It's just fun. This conversations yet. It's just fun. This is fun. They're amazing. This is like I is fun. They're amazing. This is like I is fun. They're amazing. This is like I feel butterflies. And so you kind of feel butterflies. And so you kind of feel butterflies. And so you kind of want to wait till you have some kind of want to wait till you have some kind of want to wait till you have some kind of hard conversation with them. hard conversation with them. hard conversation with them. >> Okay. So then the third stage >> Okay. So then the third stage >> Okay. So then the third stage >> relationship and that's when you know >> relationship and that's when you know >> relationship and that's when you know the everyone says DTR define the the everyone says DTR define the the everyone says DTR define the relationship that's when you're defining relationship that's when you're defining relationship that's when you're defining this is like a bigger deal I want to this is like a bigger deal I want to this is like a bigger deal I want to bring you home to my parents I want to bring you home to my parents I want to bring you home to my parents I want to move towards getting engaged potentially move towards getting engaged potentially move towards getting engaged potentially you know I want to start working towards you know I want to start working towards you know I want to start working towards are we going to get engaged are we going to get engaged are we going to get engaged >> this is going somewhere possibly >> this is going somewhere possibly >> this is going somewhere possibly >> yes >> yes >> yes >> and is there like hugging kissing like >> and is there like hugging kissing like >> and is there like hugging kissing like physical where physical where physical where >> yeah we for for that we say like you >> yeah we for for that we say like you >> yeah we for for that we say like you know you need to know yourself, your know you need to know yourself, your know you need to know yourself, your history, all of those things. But in

history, all of those things. But in history, all of those things. But in that case, you're more of a romantic that case, you're more of a romantic that case, you're more of a romantic couple. Like you really are, yeah, we're couple. Like you really are, yeah, we're couple. Like you really are, yeah, we're holding hands. You might be kissing, but holding hands. You might be kissing, but holding hands. You might be kissing, but like obviously figure out your like obviously figure out your like obviously figure out your boundaries and all of that. But yeah, boundaries and all of that. But yeah, boundaries and all of that. But yeah, this is the stage where it's much more this is the stage where it's much more this is the stage where it's much more we're a pair, but we're not a married we're a pair, but we're not a married we're a pair, but we're not a married pair yet. But we're figuring out Yeah. pair yet. But we're figuring out Yeah. pair yet. But we're figuring out Yeah. You're not dating other people. You're not dating other people. You're not dating other people. >> No more apps. Like everything's out of >> No more apps. Like everything's out of >> No more apps. Like everything's out of the picture. the picture. the picture. >> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. Yeah. Take your >> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. Yeah. Take your >> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. Yeah. Take your profile down. profile down. profile down. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Okay. All right. So, this is exclusive. >> Okay. All right. So, this is exclusive. >> Okay. All right. So, this is exclusive. And then next is And then next is And then next is >> well yeah next step is engagement. >> well yeah next step is engagement. >> well yeah next step is engagement. What's really helpful as far as timeline What's really helpful as far as timeline What's really helpful as far as timeline and framework. The first six months and framework. The first six months and framework. The first six months total. So the first three months get in total. So the first three months get in total. So the first three months get in a relationship. First six months you're a relationship. First six months you're a relationship. First six months you're trying to answer one question. Could I trying to answer one question. Could I trying to answer one question. Could I marry this person? The second six months marry this person? The second six months marry this person? The second six months because we recommend 12 months, a whole because we recommend 12 months, a whole because we recommend 12 months, a whole year, all four seasons. Uh the the year, all four seasons. Uh the the year, all four seasons. Uh the the second six months you really want to second six months you really want to second six months you really want to answer the question, should I marry this answer the question, should I marry this answer the question, should I marry this person? person? person? >> Can I should I? >> Can I should I? >> Can I should I? >> Can I? Should I? Could I? Should I? Yes. >> Can I? Should I? Could I? Should I? Yes. >> Can I? Should I? Could I? Should I? Yes. And uh yeah, and then after 12 months, And uh yeah, and then after 12 months, And uh yeah, and then after 12 months, we highly recommend 12 months of of we highly recommend 12 months of of we highly recommend 12 months of of total relationship dating before making total relationship dating before making total relationship dating before making that decision.

that decision. that decision. >> So, it's like three months of dating, >> So, it's like three months of dating, >> So, it's like three months of dating, nine months of relationship at least. Be nine months of relationship at least. Be nine months of relationship at least. Be with them for all four seasons. Okay. with them for all four seasons. Okay. with them for all four seasons. Okay. >> Nine months of relationship. Funny. Tony >> Nine months of relationship. Funny. Tony >> Nine months of relationship. Funny. Tony and I, we met in September, started and I, we met in September, started and I, we met in September, started dating as we would have called it dating as we would have called it dating as we would have called it November. We were engaged the following November. We were engaged the following November. We were engaged the following August. So, it wasn't a quite year quite August. So, it wasn't a quite year quite August. So, it wasn't a quite year quite a year. We knew though within a few a year. We knew though within a few a year. We knew though within a few months that it's like, "Oh, this is it." months that it's like, "Oh, this is it." months that it's like, "Oh, this is it." like if this isn't it, I don't know what like if this isn't it, I don't know what like if this isn't it, I don't know what it feels like. it feels like. it feels like. >> And but we decided to wait with getting >> And but we decided to wait with getting >> And but we decided to wait with getting engaged because we thought nobody else engaged because we thought nobody else engaged because we thought nobody else will be happy for us. Everybody will will be happy for us. Everybody will will be happy for us. Everybody will think we're crazy think we're crazy think we're crazy >> and that we fell in love and it's too >> and that we fell in love and it's too >> and that we fell in love and it's too soon. It's not. So we waited until the soon. It's not. So we waited until the soon. It's not. So we waited until the following summer until we thought people following summer until we thought people following summer until we thought people would be able to celebrate with us. And would be able to celebrate with us. And would be able to celebrate with us. And then we were married uh nine months then we were married uh nine months then we were married uh nine months after that or so. Like after that or so. Like after that or so. Like >> the engagement doesn't have to be that >> the engagement doesn't have to be that >> the engagement doesn't have to be that long. If you've done all of the long. If you've done all of the long. If you've done all of the pre-work, then you don't have to be pre-work, then you don't have to be pre-work, then you don't have to be engaged first. engaged first. engaged first. >> But pre-engagement counseling is >> But pre-engagement counseling is >> But pre-engagement counseling is probably the last big thing we advocate probably the last big thing we advocate probably the last big thing we advocate for. for. for. >> Yeah, pre-engagement counseling. >> Yeah, pre-engagement counseling. >> Yeah, pre-engagement counseling. >> So, do it before you get a ring. >> So, do it before you get a ring. >> So, do it before you get a ring. >> Yes, that's a great idea. >> Yes, that's a great idea. >> Yes, that's a great idea. >> Makes a lot more sense.

>> Makes a lot more sense. >> Makes a lot more sense. I mean, gosh, and the wedding invites I mean, gosh, and the wedding invites I mean, gosh, and the wedding invites and all the pressure. and all the pressure. and all the pressure. >> You want to get those skeletons out of >> You want to get those skeletons out of >> You want to get those skeletons out of the closet ideally through like a the closet ideally through like a the closet ideally through like a pre-engagement situation. conversation. pre-engagement situation. conversation. pre-engagement situation. conversation. >> So when you're in a relationship, go for >> So when you're in a relationship, go for >> So when you're in a relationship, go for pre-engagement, pre-engagement, pre-engagement, >> then get engaged and then >> then get engaged and then >> then get engaged and then >> ta. >> ta. >> ta. >> Yeah. Then whatever >> Yeah. Then whatever >> Yeah. Then whatever >> engagement possible and get married. >> engagement possible and get married. >> engagement possible and get married. >> What about these people who are like >> What about these people who are like >> What about these people who are like engaged for seven years? What's your engaged for seven years? What's your engaged for seven years? What's your advice for them? advice for them? advice for them? >> Oh, that's wild. That's [laughter] >> Oh, that's wild. That's [laughter] >> Oh, that's wild. That's [laughter] >> what are you doing? >> what are you doing? >> what are you doing? >> They uh >> They uh >> They uh >> we just met a couple that have been >> we just met a couple that have been >> we just met a couple that have been dating for five, six, seven years and dating for five, six, seven years and dating for five, six, seven years and we're dinner last Friday night with a we're dinner last Friday night with a we're dinner last Friday night with a couple. couple. couple. >> Me and JJ took everything in us cuz they >> Me and JJ took everything in us cuz they >> Me and JJ took everything in us cuz they were not there to get our dating advice, were not there to get our dating advice, were not there to get our dating advice, but we were like We're just meeting one but we were like We're just meeting one but we were like We're just meeting one time and and I was just trying to be time and and I was just trying to be time and and I was just trying to be kind. kind. kind. >> Uh and I almost was just like, "Dude, >> Uh and I almost was just like, "Dude, >> Uh and I almost was just like, "Dude, what are you doing?" Like, "What's the what are you doing?" Like, "What's the what are you doing?" Like, "What's the point? I just What's the point? You've point? I just What's the point? You've point? I just What's the point? You've been dating for 5 years." been dating for 5 years." been dating for 5 years." >> No, two years is maximum. Like, you >> No, two years is maximum. Like, you >> No, two years is maximum. Like, you that's You don't need more than two that's You don't need more than two that's You don't need more than two years time to figure that out. One year years time to figure that out. One year years time to figure that out. One year is minimum. And a lot of people don't is minimum. And a lot of people don't is minimum. And a lot of people don't follow the one year. That's what I see follow the one year. That's what I see follow the one year. That's what I see as a bigger problem is the one year as a bigger problem is the one year as a bigger problem is the one year doesn't get doesn't get doesn't get >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> bought into it all. >> bought into it all. >> bought into it all. >> So, it's too fast or it's too slow. >> So, it's too fast or it's too slow. >> So, it's too fast or it's too slow. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> Okay. So, this is super helpful. And >> Okay. So, this is super helpful. And >> Okay. So, this is super helpful. And again, those are some new categories for again, those are some new categories for again, those are some new categories for me that that make a lot of sense. They me that that make a lot of sense. They me that that make a lot of sense. They do. Where do people push back on that? do. Where do people push back on that? do. Where do people push back on that? >> Where do you get the that's dumb? >> Where do you get the that's dumb? >> Where do you get the that's dumb? >> Where you getting that? From your >> Where you getting that? From your >> Where you getting that? From your clients, not from older people, but from clients, not from older people, but from clients, not from older people, but from the people who are in your programs, the people who are in your programs, the people who are in your programs, listening to your podcast, follow you on listening to your podcast, follow you on listening to your podcast, follow you on social. social. social. >> I think two biggest areas is one >> I think two biggest areas is one >> I think two biggest areas is one timeline. People are like, especially timeline. People are like, especially timeline. People are like, especially the older you get, they're like, I just the older you get, they're like, I just the older you get, they're like, I just know. I don't need to wait. And I say, I know. I don't need to wait. And I say, I know. I don't need to wait. And I say, I don't care. I don't care how old you don't care. I don't care how old you don't care. I don't care how old you are. So when you're you're are you also are. So when you're you're are you also are. So when you're you're are you also counseling people my age like or like counseling people my age like or like counseling people my age like or like people in their sometimes. Yeah. people in their sometimes. Yeah. people in their sometimes. Yeah. >> All right. >> All right. >> All right. >> Yeah. So we have the gamut of ages and I >> Yeah. So we have the gamut of ages and I >> Yeah. So we have the gamut of ages and I think a big core audience too still for think a big core audience too still for think a big core audience too still for us is like even 30s cuz they're really us is like even 30s cuz they're really us is like even 30s cuz they're really they really want to get married and they they really want to get married and they they really want to get married and they want to have a family want to have a family want to have a family >> and clock especially women. Yeah. The >> and clock especially women. Yeah. The >> and clock especially women. Yeah. The clock's ticking. clock's ticking. clock's ticking. >> So if you meet someone and you're like >> So if you meet someone and you're like >> So if you meet someone and you're like clock is ticking you still want to have clock is ticking you still want to have clock is ticking you still want to have babies all these things. It's like they babies all these things. It's like they babies all these things. It's like they feel like I'm going to rush this feel like I'm going to rush this feel like I'm going to rush this process. And I'm like, wait guys, no, process. And I'm like, wait guys, no, process. And I'm like, wait guys, no, you why rush the process? You never hear you why rush the process? You never hear you why rush the process? You never hear people regret just a little extra time people regret just a little extra time people regret just a little extra time with someone, but you feel you hear with someone, but you feel you hear with someone, but you feel you hear people all the time, man, I rush into people all the time, man, I rush into people all the time, man, I rush into that. Uh, and so nobody really regrets that. Uh, and so nobody really regrets that. Uh, and so nobody really regrets just a little extra time now. Seven just a little extra time now. Seven just a little extra time now. Seven years. No, not talking about that.

years. No, not talking about that. years. No, not talking about that. >> Yeah. But one or two years. >> Yeah. But one or two years. >> Yeah. But one or two years. >> Yeah. And whatever the age is, I think >> Yeah. And whatever the age is, I think >> Yeah. And whatever the age is, I think that's the biggest thing. Everyone that's the biggest thing. Everyone that's the biggest thing. Everyone always wants to be the exception to always wants to be the exception to always wants to be the exception to that. And I say the only times you're that. And I say the only times you're that. And I say the only times you're exception to that is if you have the exception to that is if you have the exception to that is if you have the best wise counsel on the planet and they best wise counsel on the planet and they best wise counsel on the planet and they are involved and they're holy spirit are involved and they're holy spirit are involved and they're holy spirit driven driven driven >> on both sides >> on both sides >> on both sides >> on both sides and they're giving it >> on both sides and they're giving it >> on both sides and they're giving it green lights and they've had lots of green lights and they've had lots of green lights and they've had lots of time with a communal decision at that time with a communal decision at that time with a communal decision at that point, point, point, >> right? And then so then because then >> right? And then so then because then >> right? And then so then because then it's not a silo decision. You had two it's not a silo decision. You had two it's not a silo decision. You had two infatuated people which infatuation infatuated people which infatuation infatuated people which infatuation lasts at least 12 months. So if you have lasts at least 12 months. So if you have lasts at least 12 months. So if you have two infatuated people, they're going to two infatuated people, they're going to two infatuated people, they're going to maybe think this is the best thing ever. maybe think this is the best thing ever. maybe think this is the best thing ever. You need the wise counsel to to verify, You need the wise counsel to to verify, You need the wise counsel to to verify, hey, this is a really good thing for hey, this is a really good thing for hey, this is a really good thing for you. This is something you should you. This is something you should you. This is something you should >> and some time for the infatuation to >> and some time for the infatuation to >> and some time for the infatuation to wear off as well. wear off as well. wear off as well. >> You can see them as a real human. >> You can see them as a real human. >> You can see them as a real human. >> Good news is three and a half decades >> Good news is three and a half decades >> Good news is three and a half decades in, I'm still mostly infatuated with in, I'm still mostly infatuated with in, I'm still mostly infatuated with mine. mine. mine. >> You still have the rosecolored glasses >> You still have the rosecolored glasses >> You still have the rosecolored glasses on. on. on. >> There are days, but like most days it's >> There are days, but like most days it's >> There are days, but like most days it's like, yeah, she's she's pretty obsessed.

like, yeah, she's she's pretty obsessed. like, yeah, she's she's pretty obsessed. >> The funny thing about rose when you're >> The funny thing about rose when you're >> The funny thing about rose when you're wearing rosecolored glasses, every flag wearing rosecolored glasses, every flag wearing rosecolored glasses, every flag is rosecoled. That's [laughter] true. is rosecoled. That's [laughter] true. is rosecoled. That's [laughter] true. That's That's That's >> there's no green. >> there's no green. >> there's no green. >> It's working for me at this point, but >> It's working for me at this point, but >> It's working for me at this point, but not not for you when you're dating. And not not for you when you're dating. And not not for you when you're dating. And I've seen that infatuation where I've seen that infatuation where I've seen that infatuation where >> you're so in love and this person can do >> you're so in love and this person can do >> you're so in love and this person can do no wrong and six months later they can't no wrong and six months later they can't no wrong and six months later they can't do any right. do any right. do any right. >> It's like you go from the very best >> It's like you go from the very best >> It's like you go from the very best person ever to the worst human that ever person ever to the worst human that ever person ever to the worst human that ever live. live. live. >> You see that through God's eyes? >> You see that through God's eyes? >> You see that through God's eyes? [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> Like, okay, we got to be a little >> Like, okay, we got to be a little >> Like, okay, we got to be a little realistic. You know when we we tell realistic. You know when we we tell realistic. You know when we we tell people are like if you are thinking people are like if you are thinking people are like if you are thinking about getting married to this person and about getting married to this person and about getting married to this person and you can't tell me one single flaw they you can't tell me one single flaw they you can't tell me one single flaw they have you're not ready to marry this have you're not ready to marry this have you're not ready to marry this person. person. person. >> That is true. >> That is true. >> That is true. >> You need to be able to say, "Yeah, this >> You need to be able to say, "Yeah, this >> You need to be able to say, "Yeah, this person is wonderful, but they also have person is wonderful, but they also have person is wonderful, but they also have flaws. I know them. I'm aware of them. flaws. I know them. I'm aware of them. flaws. I know them. I'm aware of them. We've talked through them." You know, We've talked through them." You know, We've talked through them." You know, every person has flaws like that. So if every person has flaws like that. So if every person has flaws like that. So if you're like, "No, they're just perfect." you're like, "No, they're just perfect." you're like, "No, they're just perfect." I'm like, "This is 911. Do not get I'm like, "This is 911. Do not get I'm like, "This is 911. Do not get married yet." One of the issues I hear a married yet." One of the issues I hear a married yet." One of the issues I hear a lot from uh younger adults is fear of lot from uh younger adults is fear of lot from uh younger adults is fear of commitment.

commitment. commitment. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Is that a thing? >> Yeah. Is that a thing? >> Yeah. Is that a thing? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And how about fobo? >> And how about fobo? >> And how about fobo? >> Well, it's fobbo. So fomo, you know, >> Well, it's fobbo. So fomo, you know, >> Well, it's fobbo. So fomo, you know, that came from Harvard research. The that came from Harvard research. The that came from Harvard research. The original term of FOMO was fobbo, which original term of FOMO was fobbo, which original term of FOMO was fobbo, which was fear of a better option. was fear of a better option. was fear of a better option. >> Oh wow. >> Oh wow. >> Oh wow. >> And that's really what it is. >> And that's really what it is. >> And that's really what it is. >> Your cheesecake factory dilemma, right? >> Your cheesecake factory dilemma, right? >> Your cheesecake factory dilemma, right? >> Yeah. Too big a menu. >> Yeah. Too big a menu. >> Yeah. Too big a menu. >> And and you know, I didn't have that. It >> And and you know, I didn't have that. It >> And and you know, I didn't have that. It was like law school. This is my graduate was like law school. This is my graduate was like law school. This is my graduate degree. I didn't think I was going to degree. I didn't think I was going to degree. I didn't think I was going to seminary. seminary. seminary. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's kind of like I better find somebody >> It's kind of like I better find somebody >> It's kind of like I better find somebody or else I'm gonna be single. Like that's or else I'm gonna be single. Like that's or else I'm gonna be single. Like that's fine. fine. fine. >> And you really had that couple hundred >> And you really had that couple hundred >> And you really had that couple hundred people radius around you. It actually people radius around you. It actually people radius around you. It actually makes it much easier. makes it much easier. makes it much easier. >> It does cuz I >> It does cuz I >> It does cuz I >> You want chocolate or vanilla? I >> You want chocolate or vanilla? I >> You want chocolate or vanilla? I >> followers. Exactly. Exactly. >> followers. Exactly. Exactly. >> followers. Exactly. Exactly. >> Now you go to ice cream shop and it's >> Now you go to ice cream shop and it's >> Now you go to ice cream shop and it's like 100 flavors. So that's the like 100 flavors. So that's the like 100 flavors. So that's the >> that's the paradox of choice in a >> that's the paradox of choice in a >> that's the paradox of choice in a nutshell is nutshell is nutshell is >> Tony loves it when I say that. you know, >> Tony loves it when I say that. you know, >> Tony loves it when I say that. you know, there there weren't a lot of better there there weren't a lot of better there there weren't a lot of better options. options. options. >> Yeah, [laughter] exactly. But there >> Yeah, [laughter] exactly. But there >> Yeah, [laughter] exactly. But there weren't for her either. weren't for her either. weren't for her either. >> But I'm telling you, especially for men, >> But I'm telling you, especially for men, >> But I'm telling you, especially for men, uh it is the number one killer. If like uh it is the number one killer. If like uh it is the number one killer. If like you're a handsome enough guy who's got you're a handsome enough guy who's got you're a handsome enough guy who's got good character, uh you're personable, good character, uh you're personable, good character, uh you're personable, their biggest problem is fobbo. They their biggest problem is fobbo. They their biggest problem is fobbo. They have a really hard time committing have a really hard time committing have a really hard time committing because they are terrified of making the because they are terrified of making the because they are terrified of making the wrong choice. And there's this like wrong choice. And there's this like wrong choice. And there's this like naggering thought that my yes now might naggering thought that my yes now might naggering thought that my yes now might block me to a better yes just right block me to a better yes just right block me to a better yes just right around the corner. Men have that.

around the corner. Men have that. around the corner. Men have that. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Is that because of porn? >> Is that because of porn? >> Is that because of porn? >> It's probably because of porn variety. >> It's probably because of porn variety. >> It's probably because of porn variety. Uh and you know, really if you're a Uh and you know, really if you're a Uh and you know, really if you're a handsome guy who's over 5'11 with a good handsome guy who's over 5'11 with a good handsome guy who's over 5'11 with a good salary, seemingly good character and salary, seemingly good character and salary, seemingly good character and personal. personal. personal. >> Oh, you're top 10% of guys. >> Oh, you're top 10% of guys. >> Oh, you're top 10% of guys. >> You are top 10% and you have >> You are top 10% and you have >> You are top 10% and you have >> stuff too, right? Like you have a pick >> stuff too, right? Like you have a pick >> stuff too, right? Like you have a pick of the litter. of the litter. of the litter. >> Every girl is wanting that guy. And >> Every girl is wanting that guy. And >> Every girl is wanting that guy. And that's a problem. And part of that's a problem. And part of that's a problem. And part of >> height's still a thing. >> height's still a thing. >> height's still a thing. >> It is such a problem. >> It is such a problem. >> It is such a problem. >> Yeah. Why? Like I'm 62 and I have lots >> Yeah. Why? Like I'm 62 and I have lots >> Yeah. Why? Like I'm 62 and I have lots of friends who are 5'5 5'6 guys. of friends who are 5'5 5'6 guys. of friends who are 5'5 5'6 guys. >> The average height for a guy is 5'9 >> The average height for a guy is 5'9 >> The average height for a guy is 5'9 which is average means right there's which is average means right there's which is average means right there's lots lower. lots lower. lots lower. >> That's evolutionary attraction. >> That's evolutionary attraction. >> That's evolutionary attraction. >> Huh. >> Huh. >> Huh. >> Kind of like emotional intelligence >> Kind of like emotional intelligence >> Kind of like emotional intelligence signals. U signals. U signals. U >> it is weird. Tony's noticed that before. >> it is weird. Tony's noticed that before. >> it is weird. Tony's noticed that before. We'll get in a room of lead pastors. We'll get in a room of lead pastors. We'll get in a room of lead pastors. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And I'm usually fairly tall. 6'2 seem >> And I'm usually fairly tall. 6'2 seem >> And I'm usually fairly tall. 6'2 seem tall. tall. tall. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And sometimes I'm like I'm pretty >> And sometimes I'm like I'm pretty >> And sometimes I'm like I'm pretty average or below average here. A lot of average or below average here. A lot of average or below average here. A lot of guys are 6'2, 63. guys are 6'2, 63. guys are 6'2, 63. >> I think like 68% of like corporate >> I think like 68% of like corporate >> I think like 68% of like corporate executive CEOs are over 6 foot.

executive CEOs are over 6 foot. executive CEOs are over 6 foot. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's like an astounding figure. >> It's like an astounding figure. >> It's like an astounding figure. >> So height seems to be the case. You're >> So height seems to be the case. You're >> So height seems to be the case. You're [clears throat] moderately [clears throat] moderately [clears throat] moderately >> single power strength. You can take your >> single power strength. You can take your >> single power strength. You can take your shirt off at the beach. You got shirt off at the beach. You got shirt off at the beach. You got >> But those guys, but keep in mind that's >> But those guys, but keep in mind that's >> But those guys, but keep in mind that's 10% of like this club. So 90% of guys 10% of like this club. So 90% of guys 10% of like this club. So 90% of guys are not even getting let in the club. are not even getting let in the club. are not even getting let in the club. And I think a lot of times what you hear And I think a lot of times what you hear And I think a lot of times what you hear is a microphone from women complaining is a microphone from women complaining is a microphone from women complaining where all the good godly men. That's a where all the good godly men. That's a where all the good godly men. That's a big problem. Uh, but a lot of times what big problem. Uh, but a lot of times what big problem. Uh, but a lot of times what people don't realize is the data kind of people don't realize is the data kind of people don't realize is the data kind of tells a different story. It's way harder tells a different story. It's way harder tells a different story. It's way harder in today's world for a guy to date than in today's world for a guy to date than in today's world for a guy to date than it is for women. it is for women. it is for women. >> Like the the dating app statistics >> Like the the dating app statistics >> Like the the dating app statistics >> is not what is being talked about. >> is not what is being talked about. >> is not what is being talked about. >> The dating app statistics are >> The dating app statistics are >> The dating app statistics are mind-blowing. How so? Let's go there. mind-blowing. How so? Let's go there. mind-blowing. How so? Let's go there. >> Okay. So 50 So a guy on a dating app >> Okay. So 50 So a guy on a dating app >> Okay. So 50 So a guy on a dating app will swipe right 50 to 60% of the time. will swipe right 50 to 60% of the time. will swipe right 50 to 60% of the time. Okay. Okay. Okay. >> And again, I'm I've never downloaded >> And again, I'm I've never downloaded >> And again, I'm I've never downloaded dating app. Swiping right means you're dating app. Swiping right means you're dating app. Swiping right means you're interested. interested. interested. >> Yes. Means I'm interested in you. So if >> Yes. Means I'm interested in you. So if >> Yes. Means I'm interested in you. So if you see 10 women, you're going to swipe you see 10 women, you're going to swipe you see 10 women, you're going to swipe right.

right. right. Swipe and then they have a chance to Swipe and then they have a chance to Swipe and then they have a chance to respond to you. Swipe back if they also respond to you. Swipe back if they also respond to you. Swipe back if they also swipe right on you. swipe right on you. swipe right on you. >> So be a match, right? >> So be a match, right? >> So be a match, right? >> So guys will swipe right 50 to 60% of >> So guys will swipe right 50 to 60% of >> So guys will swipe right 50 to 60% of the time. Girls will swipe right 10 to the time. Girls will swipe right 10 to the time. Girls will swipe right 10 to 15% of the time. Okay? Which means the 15% of the time. Okay? Which means the 15% of the time. Okay? Which means the match rate for women is about 30%. The match rate for women is about 30%. The match rate for women is about 30%. The match rate for men is about 3%. match rate for men is about 3%. match rate for men is about 3%. So for guys to get matches, especially So for guys to get matches, especially So for guys to get matches, especially if they're not in that six-foot club if they're not in that six-foot club if they're not in that six-foot club with a good salary, with a good salary, with a good salary, >> an average guy, >> an average guy, >> an average guy, >> an average guy, >> an average guy, >> an average guy, >> average king/ average guys, okay? >> average king/ average guys, okay? >> average king/ average guys, okay? >> They have such a hard time and depends >> They have such a hard time and depends >> They have such a hard time and depends on ethnicity as well. So they're not on ethnicity as well. So they're not on ethnicity as well. So they're not getting that many matches just getting that many matches just getting that many matches just statistically. statistically. statistically. >> They have to swipe 250 times for one >> They have to swipe 250 times for one >> They have to swipe 250 times for one match. match. match. >> Oh my gosh. >> Oh my gosh. >> Oh my gosh. >> Yeah. And of those matches, uh, it takes >> Yeah. And of those matches, uh, it takes >> Yeah. And of those matches, uh, it takes five matches on average for them to just five matches on average for them to just five matches on average for them to just get a coffee date. get a coffee date. get a coffee date. >> So, they have to swipe a thousand times, >> So, they have to swipe a thousand times, >> So, they have to swipe a thousand times, right? right? right? >> To get one coffee date.

>> To get one coffee date. >> To get one coffee date. >> That's what it's like for the average >> That's what it's like for the average >> That's what it's like for the average guy today. guy today. guy today. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> For an average guy. Girls, it's way >> For an average guy. Girls, it's way >> For an average guy. Girls, it's way different. But you don't hear the girls, different. But you don't hear the girls, different. But you don't hear the girls, you hear the guys not complaining and you hear the guys not complaining and you hear the guys not complaining and you hear the girls really loudly you hear the girls really loudly you hear the girls really loudly complaining about it. And I'm like, complaining about it. And I'm like, complaining about it. And I'm like, girls, actually on a dating app, you girls, actually on a dating app, you girls, actually on a dating app, you actually have it much better. You were actually have it much better. You were actually have it much better. You were saying the good godly guys is a bit of a saying the good godly guys is a bit of a saying the good godly guys is a bit of a smoke screen. Is that because they're smoke screen. Is that because they're smoke screen. Is that because they're not interested in good and godly? not interested in good and godly? not interested in good and godly? They're interested in tall and rich. They're interested in tall and rich. They're interested in tall and rich. >> What are you saying? I just want to be >> What are you saying? I just want to be >> What are you saying? I just want to be clear. clear. clear. >> Well, tell them about the >> Well, tell them about the >> Well, tell them about the >> Yeah. Another stat that is out there is >> Yeah. Another stat that is out there is >> Yeah. Another stat that is out there is um when asked if somebody had 80% of um when asked if somebody had 80% of um when asked if somebody had 80% of what you're looking for, would you be what you're looking for, would you be what you're looking for, would you be with them? with them? with them? >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> 75% of guys said yes, >> 75% of guys said yes, >> 75% of guys said yes, >> I would I would go for her. >> I would I would go for her. >> I would I would go for her. >> 75% of women said no. >> 75% of women said no. >> 75% of women said no. So, this brings us into I'm going to So, this brings us into I'm going to So, this brings us into I'm going to call it the list. I got a list of who call it the list. I got a list of who call it the list. I got a list of who this guy the guy I marry has to be this guy the guy I marry has to be this guy the guy I marry has to be that's still very much alive. that's still very much alive. that's still very much alive. >> Very much alive. And the reason it's >> Very much alive. And the reason it's >> Very much alive. And the reason it's also especially bad for women is also especially bad for women is also especially bad for women is >> women's emotional intelligence has >> women's emotional intelligence has >> women's emotional intelligence has continued to grow and their emotional continued to grow and their emotional continued to grow and their emotional healing has continued to grow. And so, healing has continued to grow. And so, healing has continued to grow. And so, their standards for what they're looking their standards for what they're looking their standards for what they're looking for in that area is really exponentially for in that area is really exponentially for in that area is really exponentially high.

high. high. >> Well, and they make money now. So they >> Well, and they make money now. So they >> Well, and they make money now. So they don't have to marry don't have to marry don't have to marry >> a guy for money, >> a guy for money, >> a guy for money, >> right? Or does that >> right? Or does that >> right? Or does that >> part explain, >> part explain, >> part explain, >> you know, the fact that we're marrying >> you know, the fact that we're marrying >> you know, the fact that we're marrying later, uh, having kids later? It's like, later, uh, having kids later? It's like, later, uh, having kids later? It's like, well, I have a career now. I well, I have a career now. I well, I have a career now. I >> care prioritized first. It's glorified >> care prioritized first. It's glorified >> care prioritized first. It's glorified by culture, but it's prioritized first by culture, but it's prioritized first by culture, but it's prioritized first and glorified, and glorified, and glorified, >> right? And then so women, they don't >> right? And then so women, they don't >> right? And then so women, they don't have to marry now for income or have to marry now for income or have to marry now for income or livelihood or safety. They can make livelihood or safety. They can make livelihood or safety. They can make their own. their own. their own. >> Okay, which is fine. Uh but secondly, >> Okay, which is fine. Uh but secondly, >> Okay, which is fine. Uh but secondly, now that a guy doesn't really have to be now that a guy doesn't really have to be now that a guy doesn't really have to be the bread winner, uh they kind of move the bread winner, uh they kind of move the bread winner, uh they kind of move on, which is the way for 2,000 years, on, which is the way for 2,000 years, on, which is the way for 2,000 years, right? We kind of made this exchange. right? We kind of made this exchange. right? We kind of made this exchange. >> Married going to take care of you, >> Married going to take care of you, >> Married going to take care of you, right? I only have to go back to my right? I only have to go back to my right? I only have to go back to my grandparents to know that's largely grandparents to know that's largely grandparents to know that's largely true. true. true. >> Yeah. And so guys could be a provider >> Yeah. And so guys could be a provider >> Yeah. And so guys could be a provider first. Uh maybe emotionally not to be first. Uh maybe emotionally not to be first. Uh maybe emotionally not to be the most healthy, but you know, they're the most healthy, but you know, they're the most healthy, but you know, they're given the protection. And then also on given the protection. And then also on given the protection. And then also on the inverse, guys mainly married for one the inverse, guys mainly married for one the inverse, guys mainly married for one thing, which was sex. That was withheld. thing, which was sex. That was withheld. thing, which was sex. That was withheld. Now they can have that anytime they Now they can have that anytime they Now they can have that anytime they want, want, want, right? Or a version of it with AI, right? Or a version of it with AI, right? Or a version of it with AI, >> right? So the two main motivating >> right? So the two main motivating >> right? So the two main motivating factors for even getting married on both factors for even getting married on both factors for even getting married on both sides have kind of been stripped away.

sides have kind of been stripped away. sides have kind of been stripped away. >> Okay. So women now say, okay, maybe you >> Okay. So women now say, okay, maybe you >> Okay. So women now say, okay, maybe you don't have to be a bread winner. You don't have to be a bread winner. You don't have to be a bread winner. You don't have to be the I can do that. don't have to be the I can do that. don't have to be the I can do that. Maybe you can be emotionally healthy or Maybe you can be emotionally healthy or Maybe you can be emotionally healthy or intelligent. And that's not really a intelligent. And that's not really a intelligent. And that's not really a skill that we've kind of maybe taught skill that we've kind of maybe taught skill that we've kind of maybe taught men growing up. So women really don't. men growing up. So women really don't. men growing up. So women really don't. At the end of the day though, to At the end of the day though, to At the end of the day though, to summarize it, women want to marry up and summarize it, women want to marry up and summarize it, women want to marry up and to the right in every category. Uh to the right in every category. Uh to the right in every category. Uh >> so if I'm making 100,000, I want him to >> so if I'm making 100,000, I want him to >> so if I'm making 100,000, I want him to make 100,000. make 100,000. make 100,000. >> Yeah. Or 20. >> Yeah. Or 20. >> Yeah. Or 20. >> Yeah. I want him to be this. I want him >> Yeah. I want him to be this. I want him >> Yeah. I want him to be this. I want him if I've spent 10 years in therapy, he if I've spent 10 years in therapy, he if I've spent 10 years in therapy, he needs to have spent 10 years in therapy needs to have spent 10 years in therapy needs to have spent 10 years in therapy or more. or more. or more. >> If I go to the gym, he really goes to >> If I go to the gym, he really goes to >> If I go to the gym, he really goes to the gym. the gym. the gym. >> Yeah. Exactly. And what do guys want? >> Yeah. Exactly. And what do guys want? >> Yeah. Exactly. And what do guys want? >> I think they're a little bit more >> I think they're a little bit more >> I think they're a little bit more willing to compromise on some of those willing to compromise on some of those willing to compromise on some of those areas. Like you always hear the like areas. Like you always hear the like areas. Like you always hear the like old, you know, adage like, "Oh, he'd old, you know, adage like, "Oh, he'd old, you know, adage like, "Oh, he'd marry the waitress, you know, or he marry the waitress, you know, or he marry the waitress, you know, or he walks in and marries the inkeeper, you walks in and marries the inkeeper, you walks in and marries the inkeeper, you know, he's just this poor old rag girl know, he's just this poor old rag girl know, he's just this poor old rag girl who's beautiful." Uh, I think men want a who's beautiful." Uh, I think men want a who's beautiful." Uh, I think men want a beautiful woman. That's still very true. beautiful woman. That's still very true. beautiful woman. That's still very true. The problem is their definition of The problem is their definition of The problem is their definition of beautiful is is warped. beautiful is is warped. beautiful is is warped. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know, we're basically looking for >> You know, we're basically looking for >> You know, we're basically looking for like a porn star Kim Kardashian body uh like a porn star Kim Kardashian body uh like a porn star Kim Kardashian body uh with uh like a Beth Moore kind of like with uh like a Beth Moore kind of like with uh like a Beth Moore kind of like character [laughter] character [laughter] character [laughter] >> who's also got the emotional maintenance >> who's also got the emotional maintenance >> who's also got the emotional maintenance of my best guy. right who's emotionally of my best guy. right who's emotionally of my best guy. right who's emotionally dead and suppressed dead and suppressed dead and suppressed >> and [laughter] chill.

>> and [laughter] chill. >> and [laughter] chill. >> She is she's not needy. >> She is she's not needy. >> She is she's not needy. >> Like that's kind of what they want. >> Like that's kind of what they want. >> Like that's kind of what they want. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So it's all these expectations. >> So it's all these expectations. >> So it's all these expectations. >> Yeah. It's kind of like a stalemate. >> Yeah. It's kind of like a stalemate. >> Yeah. It's kind of like a stalemate. >> You know, a lot of that is the kind of >> You know, a lot of that is the kind of >> You know, a lot of that is the kind of cultural war bleeding into the church. cultural war bleeding into the church. cultural war bleeding into the church. >> It is, >> It is, >> It is, >> you know. >> you know. >> you know. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, how do you counsel people? Like how >> So, how do you counsel people? Like how >> So, how do you counsel people? Like how do you get past this? Uh and and one do you get past this? Uh and and one do you get past this? Uh and and one other question that's sort of dangling other question that's sort of dangling other question that's sort of dangling from earlier. So, you know, I don't know from earlier. So, you know, I don't know from earlier. So, you know, I don't know the dating apps clearly, but if I was the dating apps clearly, but if I was the dating apps clearly, but if I was single, can you still just go up to single, can you still just go up to single, can you still just go up to somebody in real life and go, "Hey, you somebody in real life and go, "Hey, you somebody in real life and go, "Hey, you want to grab coffee sometime?" want to grab coffee sometime?" want to grab coffee sometime?" >> No. >> No. >> No. >> Or is that weird? Do you get arrested >> Or is that weird? Do you get arrested >> Or is that weird? Do you get arrested for that now? Like, what happens? for that now? Like, what happens? for that now? Like, what happens? >> It's definitely a rarity, but I think >> It's definitely a rarity, but I think >> It's definitely a rarity, but I think [clears throat] it can happen. [clears throat] it can happen. [clears throat] it can happen. >> Why is it rare? Because of all the >> Why is it rare? Because of all the >> Why is it rare? Because of all the things we talked about. things we talked about. things we talked about. >> It's not rare in the non-Christian >> It's not rare in the non-Christian >> It's not rare in the non-Christian culture. People are still going to bars culture. People are still going to bars culture. People are still going to bars and asking people out, but in the and asking people out, but in the and asking people out, but in the Christian culture, Christian culture, Christian culture, >> like I see the movies and it's still >> like I see the movies and it's still >> like I see the movies and it's still happening in the movies, right? It's happening in the movies, right? It's happening in the movies, right? It's still happening. Hey, you want to you still happening. Hey, you want to you still happening. Hey, you want to you want to grab a drink, right? You want to want to grab a drink, right? You want to want to grab a drink, right? You want to do this? Like that happens in the movie. do this? Like that happens in the movie. do this? Like that happens in the movie. >> It still happens. This all still >> It still happens. This all still >> It still happens. This all still happens. We're just kind of talking happens. We're just kind of talking happens. We're just kind of talking about like maybe the negative, more about like maybe the negative, more about like maybe the negative, more dominating side of where we're failing, dominating side of where we're failing, dominating side of where we're failing, but this is sitting but this is sitting but this is sitting >> out there on a Sunday morning and we >> out there on a Sunday morning and we >> out there on a Sunday morning and we don't don't don't >> I don't know it. I won't say we I don't >> I don't know it. I won't say we I don't >> I don't know it. I won't say we I don't know it. And and that's why it's so know it. And and that's why it's so know it. And and that's why it's so important. You will have almost any important. You will have almost any important. You will have almost any leader or pastor listening to this who leader or pastor listening to this who leader or pastor listening to this who can think of five solid single women.

can think of five solid single women. can think of five solid single women. >> Oh man, >> Oh man, >> Oh man, >> in their 20s, 30s, maybe even 40s that >> in their 20s, 30s, maybe even 40s that >> in their 20s, 30s, maybe even 40s that they're like, I don't understand why they're like, I don't understand why they're like, I don't understand why this person is still single. this person is still single. this person is still single. >> Oh yeah, that is very common. >> Oh yeah, that is very common. >> Oh yeah, that is very common. >> Yeah, [clears throat] this is why. And >> Yeah, [clears throat] this is why. And >> Yeah, [clears throat] this is why. And and that girl for 10 years of her life and that girl for 10 years of her life and that girl for 10 years of her life from 21 to 34, from 21 to 34, from 21 to 34, >> 13 years didn't date. She has just been >> 13 years didn't date. She has just been >> 13 years didn't date. She has just been on the sidelines and that was a huge on the sidelines and that was a huge on the sidelines and that was a huge mistake. A lot of women are kind of mistake. A lot of women are kind of mistake. A lot of women are kind of reconciling this fact of, "Oh crap, reconciling this fact of, "Oh crap, reconciling this fact of, "Oh crap, >> for 10 to 15 years, I was supposed to >> for 10 to 15 years, I was supposed to >> for 10 to 15 years, I was supposed to wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, >> and it never happened. Oh shoot, >> and it never happened. Oh shoot, >> and it never happened. Oh shoot, >> that >> that >> that >> another time clocking and they're like, >> another time clocking and they're like, >> another time clocking and they're like, I need to find someone, you know, I have I need to find someone, you know, I have I need to find someone, you know, I have all these standards and I can't I'm not all these standards and I can't I'm not all these standards and I can't I'm not going to settle." But I So it's it's going to settle." But I So it's it's going to settle." But I So it's it's complicated. I mean, complicated. I mean, complicated. I mean, >> so what how would we combat this? I >> so what how would we combat this? I >> so what how would we combat this? I would say one thing I I I will speak to would say one thing I I I will speak to would say one thing I I I will speak to the women, you can speak to the guys. I the women, you can speak to the guys. I the women, you can speak to the guys. I I say to the women all the time, first I say to the women all the time, first I say to the women all the time, first of all, ladies, please don't expect him of all, ladies, please don't expect him of all, ladies, please don't expect him to be in the same amount of therapy that to be in the same amount of therapy that to be in the same amount of therapy that you've been in. What we're looking for you've been in. What we're looking for you've been in. What we're looking for is where he's at and where he's going. is where he's at and where he's going. is where he's at and where he's going. Okay? What where is he headed? He may Okay? What where is he headed? He may Okay? What where is he headed? He may not have the same language not have the same language not have the same language [clears throat] [clears throat] [clears throat] with you as attachment styles and with you as attachment styles and with you as attachment styles and enagram numbers and all of that stuff.

enagram numbers and all of that stuff. enagram numbers and all of that stuff. Okay? Girls buy more of those books. Okay? Girls buy more of those books. Okay? Girls buy more of those books. It's just women buy the self-help stuff It's just women buy the self-help stuff It's just women buy the self-help stuff and guys don't. That's statistically and guys don't. That's statistically and guys don't. That's statistically proven. So, if we know that, then let's proven. So, if we know that, then let's proven. So, if we know that, then let's stop having the expectation that he has stop having the expectation that he has stop having the expectation that he has to be exactly where I'm at in terms of to be exactly where I'm at in terms of to be exactly where I'm at in terms of all of the knowledge I have emotionally. all of the knowledge I have emotionally. all of the knowledge I have emotionally. I'm more concerned with what's his I'm more concerned with what's his I'm more concerned with what's his community like and where is he community like and where is he community like and where is he teachable? Is he willing to go down that teachable? Is he willing to go down that teachable? Is he willing to go down that road? So, if you date him and he doesn't road? So, if you date him and he doesn't road? So, if you date him and he doesn't know he's avoiding attachment style and know he's avoiding attachment style and know he's avoiding attachment style and it comes up, is he willing to do some it comes up, is he willing to do some it comes up, is he willing to do some work on that? And is he willing to say, work on that? And is he willing to say, work on that? And is he willing to say, "This is kind of an issue. I never had "This is kind of an issue. I never had "This is kind of an issue. I never had to address it before. I'm going to to address it before. I'm going to to address it before. I'm going to address this now." Does he have address this now." Does he have address this now." Does he have community and people in his life community and people in his life community and people in his life speaking to him? And so we have to be, speaking to him? And so we have to be, speaking to him? And so we have to be, you know, I'm not saying date potential you know, I'm not saying date potential you know, I'm not saying date potential in the way of like you can help him and in the way of like you can help him and in the way of like you can help him and you can change him. you can change him. you can change him. >> You're going to make him better. >> You're going to make him better. >> You're going to make him better. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> Yeah. Although you did do that job. >> Yeah. Although you did do that job. >> Yeah. Although you did do that job. [clears throat] [clears throat] [clears throat] >> So did my wife. >> So did my wife. >> So did my wife. >> But it's like, hey, let's focus on where >> But it's like, hey, let's focus on where >> But it's like, hey, let's focus on where he's headed versus just where he's at. he's headed versus just where he's at. he's headed versus just where he's at. Especially emotionally speaking. And Especially emotionally speaking. And Especially emotionally speaking. And then I would say to the ladies, like, then I would say to the ladies, like, then I would say to the ladies, like, you have to stop complaining about the you have to stop complaining about the you have to stop complaining about the men. You have to. Because all I hear men. You have to. Because all I hear men. You have to. Because all I hear anytime I'm in my DMs counseling women anytime I'm in my DMs counseling women anytime I'm in my DMs counseling women is just there's no good guys. There's no is just there's no good guys. There's no is just there's no good guys. There's no good guys. But you don't get it. You've good guys. But you don't get it. You've good guys. But you don't get it. You've never been in my church. There's no good never been in my church. There's no good never been in my church. There's no good guys. I'm like I am not blind. I see the guys. I'm like I am not blind. I see the guys. I'm like I am not blind. I see the guys. They are there. You're not looking guys. They are there. You're not looking guys. They are there. You're not looking at them because they're 5'7. You're not at them because they're 5'7. You're not at them because they're 5'7. You're not looking at them because you are not looking at them because you are not looking at them because you are not confident enough in yourself to even be confident enough in yourself to even be confident enough in yourself to even be open to that guy. So you need to stop open to that guy. So you need to stop open to that guy. So you need to stop complaining about them and start praying complaining about them and start praying complaining about them and start praying for them instead. That's my biggest

for them instead. That's my biggest for them instead. That's my biggest thing. We need to start praying for the thing. We need to start praying for the thing. We need to start praying for the men and we need to start encouraging the men and we need to start encouraging the men and we need to start encouraging the men that are doing it right. So start men that are doing it right. So start men that are doing it right. So start looking for that because the more you looking for that because the more you looking for that because the more you look for evidence of the bad guys, the look for evidence of the bad guys, the look for evidence of the bad guys, the ghosters of this, the more you're going ghosters of this, the more you're going ghosters of this, the more you're going to see that. And so we need to look for to see that. And so we need to look for to see that. And so we need to look for the guys who are doing it right. Call it the guys who are doing it right. Call it the guys who are doing it right. Call it out. out. out. >> And we need to just be more open. It's >> And we need to just be more open. It's >> And we need to just be more open. It's why I say date the unexpected. JJ was why I say date the unexpected. JJ was why I say date the unexpected. JJ was the unexpected. I use my story in that the unexpected. I use my story in that the unexpected. I use my story in that all the time. Date a younger guy. Date a all the time. Date a younger guy. Date a all the time. Date a younger guy. Date a guy out of your age range. Date the guy guy out of your age range. Date the guy guy out of your age range. Date the guy with weird hair. Date the shorter guy. with weird hair. Date the shorter guy. with weird hair. Date the shorter guy. Just try it. Go on dates. Who cares? Just try it. Go on dates. Who cares? Just try it. Go on dates. Who cares? It's just a date. If we can, you know, It's just a date. If we can, you know, It's just a date. If we can, you know, if we can if we can if we can just It's just coffee. It's just dinner. just It's just coffee. It's just dinner. just It's just coffee. It's just dinner. It's just It's just It's just >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Just think of that like pressure valve. >> Just think of that like pressure valve. >> Just think of that like pressure valve. Just Just Just >> like an Insta Pot, you know? >> like an Insta Pot, you know? >> like an Insta Pot, you know? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Like we need that so badly. >> Like we need that so badly. >> Like we need that so badly. >> Yeah. For both sides. What's your advice >> Yeah. For both sides. What's your advice >> Yeah. For both sides. What's your advice to guys? to guys? to guys? >> Well, one I I love that we've been on >> Well, one I I love that we've been on >> Well, one I I love that we've been on here 30 over 30% of the church is now here 30 over 30% of the church is now here 30 over 30% of the church is now single. By the way, if you go to an single. By the way, if you go to an single. By the way, if you go to an urban church, it's like 80 to 90%.

urban church, it's like 80 to 90%. urban church, it's like 80 to 90%. >> Yeah, it's huge. >> Yeah, it's huge. >> Yeah, it's huge. >> It's mind-blowing. I >> It's mind-blowing. I >> It's mind-blowing. I >> I was reading a stat recently, late >> I was reading a stat recently, late >> I was reading a stat recently, late 2025, 2025, 2025, that was something like 62% of Americans that was something like 62% of Americans that was something like 62% of Americans do not are single or like not in a do not are single or like not in a do not are single or like not in a married with married with married with >> children. It's I've got that botched a >> children. It's I've got that botched a >> children. It's I've got that botched a little bit. No, it's little bit. No, it's little bit. No, it's >> But like it's it's insane when you think >> But like it's it's insane when you think >> But like it's it's insane when you think about the composition of who you're about the composition of who you're about the composition of who you're speaking to. speaking to. speaking to. >> I think a lot of us still have Yeah. You >> I think a lot of us still have Yeah. You >> I think a lot of us still have Yeah. You know, honestly, a couple like you, know, honestly, a couple like you, know, honestly, a couple like you, right? You have a two-year-old, you got right? You have a two-year-old, you got right? You have a two-year-old, you got you got a baby on the way, you're you got a baby on the way, you're you got a baby on the way, you're married, you're in the suburbs. It's married, you're in the suburbs. It's married, you're in the suburbs. It's like that's who we're going after. And like that's who we're going after. And like that's who we're going after. And it's like that is such a small portion it's like that is such a small portion it's like that is such a small portion of the population. And 5 years ago, that of the population. And 5 years ago, that of the population. And 5 years ago, that was not you. was not you. was not you. >> Yeah. Right. Exactly. >> Yeah. Right. Exactly. >> Yeah. Right. Exactly. >> Well, so 51% of the US population is not >> Well, so 51% of the US population is not >> Well, so 51% of the US population is not married. married. married. >> The majority >> The majority >> The majority of America, the adults are not married. of America, the adults are not married. of America, the adults are not married. >> Yeah. What? So if your church perfectly >> Yeah. What? So if your church perfectly >> Yeah. What? So if your church perfectly reflected culture and the and the reflected culture and the and the reflected culture and the and the demographics, which it doesn't, right? demographics, which it doesn't, right? demographics, which it doesn't, right? It's skewers to older uh and married. It's skewers to older uh and married. It's skewers to older uh and married. >> Older and more married. >> Older and more married. >> Older and more married. >> Yeah, exactly. But if it did, think >> Yeah, exactly. But if it did, think >> Yeah, exactly. But if it did, think about your sermons now moving forward.

about your sermons now moving forward. about your sermons now moving forward. Half the people are single and half are Half the people are single and half are Half the people are single and half are married. Think about how differently we married. Think about how differently we married. Think about how differently we would preach. would preach. would preach. >> Yeah. Think about even the anecdotes >> Yeah. Think about even the anecdotes >> Yeah. Think about even the anecdotes when you're not in your summer loving when you're not in your summer loving when you're not in your summer loving series or your relationship February series or your relationship February series or your relationship February series. It's like, you know, when you series. It's like, you know, when you series. It's like, you know, when you argued with your wife on the way home, argued with your wife on the way home, argued with your wife on the way home, >> well, maybe that's true. 40% of the >> well, maybe that's true. 40% of the >> well, maybe that's true. 40% of the people there, right? Like maybe it's people there, right? Like maybe it's people there, right? Like maybe it's not. not. not. >> Well, think about this one. This one has >> Well, think about this one. This one has >> Well, think about this one. This one has been driving me nuts lately. And the been driving me nuts lately. And the been driving me nuts lately. And the best way, and I'm glad pastors are best way, and I'm glad pastors are best way, and I'm glad pastors are listening. listening. listening. >> What's the first thing people say when >> What's the first thing people say when >> What's the first thing people say when we talk about marriage? we talk about marriage? we talk about marriage? >> The enemy hates marriage. The enemy >> The enemy hates marriage. The enemy >> The enemy hates marriage. The enemy hates hates hates >> The enemy hates singleness, too. >> The enemy hates singleness, too. >> The enemy hates singleness, too. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> He hates anytime we're flourishing in >> He hates anytime we're flourishing in >> He hates anytime we're flourishing in any stage of relationship. He hates that any stage of relationship. He hates that any stage of relationship. He hates that single flourishing just as much as he single flourishing just as much as he single flourishing just as much as he hates a marriage. Now, I get marriage is hates a marriage. Now, I get marriage is hates a marriage. Now, I get marriage is an amazing vehicle. not trying to an amazing vehicle. not trying to an amazing vehicle. not trying to decorify marriage. Okay. Uh so that is decorify marriage. Okay. Uh so that is decorify marriage. Okay. Uh so that is one note of encouragement I give the one note of encouragement I give the one note of encouragement I give the pastors and the the leaders listening. pastors and the the leaders listening. pastors and the the leaders listening. This is a growing demographic and I want This is a growing demographic and I want This is a growing demographic and I want to I want it to be smaller. to I want it to be smaller. to I want it to be smaller. >> I really do. But we have to equip our >> I really do. But we have to equip our >> I really do. But we have to equip our singles a little bit better. singles a little bit better. singles a little bit better. >> Yeah. And on that note, you know, the >> Yeah. And on that note, you know, the >> Yeah. And on that note, you know, the quote gift of singleness. Any thoughts quote gift of singleness. Any thoughts quote gift of singleness. Any thoughts on that? Like on that? Like on that? Like >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> If it hadn't I was 23 when I met Tony. >> If it hadn't I was 23 when I met Tony. >> If it hadn't I was 23 when I met Tony. She was a couple years older. She looks She was a couple years older. She looks She was a couple years older. She looks younger, but she's older. And uh again, younger, but she's older. And uh again, younger, but she's older. And uh again, get your wife on the episode. But um get your wife on the episode. But um get your wife on the episode. But um it was interesting because I thought, it was interesting because I thought, it was interesting because I thought, well, maybe I'll just be single and I well, maybe I'll just be single and I well, maybe I'll just be single and I was cool with that. And she had the same was cool with that. And she had the same was cool with that. And she had the same thought. She's like, if I can't find a thought. She's like, if I can't find a thought. She's like, if I can't find a Christian guy because we both committed Christian guy because we both committed Christian guy because we both committed our lives to Christ. our lives to Christ. our lives to Christ. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Then I'm okay doing this solo. >> Then I'm okay doing this solo. >> Then I'm okay doing this solo. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That's way more of an issue now than it >> That's way more of an issue now than it >> That's way more of an issue now than it was was was >> 35 years ago. So what's your message to >> 35 years ago. So what's your message to >> 35 years ago. So what's your message to those who just they've tried it, it just those who just they've tried it, it just those who just they've tried it, it just hasn't worked. uh men or women, what hasn't worked. uh men or women, what hasn't worked. uh men or women, what what do you say is like singleness a what do you say is like singleness a what do you say is like singleness a calling? Is it something you can calling? Is it something you can calling? Is it something you can >> you can faithfully do or because there >> you can faithfully do or because there >> you can faithfully do or because there is a lot of stigma I think in churches is a lot of stigma I think in churches is a lot of stigma I think in churches associated with not finding the person associated with not finding the person associated with not finding the person >> like what's wrong with you? >> like what's wrong with you? >> like what's wrong with you? >> I think there's a lot of desperation >> I think there's a lot of desperation >> I think there's a lot of desperation because people want it and they haven't because people want it and they haven't because people want it and they haven't gotten it. And so that becomes also a gotten it. And so that becomes also a gotten it. And so that becomes also a frustration uh towards the other gender, frustration uh towards the other gender, frustration uh towards the other gender, shame about themselves and then also shame about themselves and then also shame about themselves and then also frustration at God. And so I would say frustration at God. And so I would say frustration at God. And so I would say we have to work through those things cuz we have to work through those things cuz we have to work through those things cuz marriage is still a beautiful thing and marriage is still a beautiful thing and marriage is still a beautiful thing and for many people they are called to for many people they are called to for many people they are called to marriage. Like there's a lot of people marriage. Like there's a lot of people marriage. Like there's a lot of people who are called to it. I just think we who are called to it. I just think we who are called to it. I just think we have to no matter what season you're in.

have to no matter what season you're in. have to no matter what season you're in. We were just in this season last year of We were just in this season last year of We were just in this season last year of hey we're married. We want more kids and hey we're married. We want more kids and hey we're married. We want more kids and we're struggling through miscarriages we're struggling through miscarriages we're struggling through miscarriages you know and you can want something and you know and you can want something and you know and you can want something and it's a beautiful desire but it's how you it's a beautiful desire but it's how you it's a beautiful desire but it's how you process that desire and how much you process that desire and how much you process that desire and how much you idolize that desire. So wanting marriage idolize that desire. So wanting marriage idolize that desire. So wanting marriage and trying to pursue marriage and date and trying to pursue marriage and date and trying to pursue marriage and date is a beautiful thing. But if it doesn't is a beautiful thing. But if it doesn't is a beautiful thing. But if it doesn't happen, what are the stories you're happen, what are the stories you're happen, what are the stories you're telling yourself telling yourself telling yourself >> and what are you believing? Because >> and what are you believing? Because >> and what are you believing? Because being single is a totally valid pathway being single is a totally valid pathway being single is a totally valid pathway to flourishment for the rest of your to flourishment for the rest of your to flourishment for the rest of your life. life. life. >> Paul says so explicitly. I wish you >> Paul says so explicitly. I wish you >> Paul says so explicitly. I wish you weren't married. weren't married. weren't married. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> You'd be more devoted to God. And I >> You'd be more devoted to God. And I >> You'd be more devoted to God. And I think there's truth in that after, you think there's truth in that after, you think there's truth in that after, you know, I love my kids. I love my know, I love my kids. I love my know, I love my kids. I love my marriage. I love my wife. But like your marriage. I love my wife. But like your marriage. I love my wife. But like your life looks very different and you are life looks very different and you are life looks very different and you are less quote distracted. less quote distracted. less quote distracted. >> Well, and John Tyson was talking about >> Well, and John Tyson was talking about >> Well, and John Tyson was talking about this. He's like talking about what you this. He's like talking about what you this. He's like talking about what you glorify from the stage, what you glorify from the stage, what you glorify from the stage, what you celebrate. And I think we've done a celebrate. And I think we've done a celebrate. And I think we've done a really great job of celebrating married really great job of celebrating married really great job of celebrating married couples. We've had amazing love stories couples. We've had amazing love stories couples. We've had amazing love stories and that's it.

and that's it. and that's it. >> You know, like we're not really >> You know, like we're not really >> You know, like we're not really celebrating. Yeah. And and I want to as celebrating. Yeah. And and I want to as celebrating. Yeah. And and I want to as well, but when's the last time you well, but when's the last time you well, but when's the last time you celebrated and glorified a single who's celebrated and glorified a single who's celebrated and glorified a single who's just doing an awesome job and maybe even just doing an awesome job and maybe even just doing an awesome job and maybe even committed to celibacy committed to celibacy committed to celibacy >> and not feeling sorry for them. >> and not feeling sorry for them. >> and not feeling sorry for them. >> Yeah. And just saying this is amazing. >> Yeah. And just saying this is amazing. >> Yeah. And just saying this is amazing. >> Or like let's celebrate that they got an >> Or like let's celebrate that they got an >> Or like let's celebrate that they got an awesome new job promotion because awesome new job promotion because awesome new job promotion because >> that's a huge deal. Or they're doing >> that's a huge deal. Or they're doing >> that's a huge deal. Or they're doing something epic in their single life. something epic in their single life. something epic in their single life. Like we need to celebrate those things Like we need to celebrate those things Like we need to celebrate those things just as much. just as much. just as much. >> Or they discipled this person. >> Or they discipled this person. >> Or they discipled this person. >> Like yeah, you celebrate someone just >> Like yeah, you celebrate someone just >> Like yeah, you celebrate someone just doing singleness. Awesome. And my hot doing singleness. Awesome. And my hot doing singleness. Awesome. And my hot take is you would never have to give take is you would never have to give take is you would never have to give even a sermon on the gift of singleness. even a sermon on the gift of singleness. even a sermon on the gift of singleness. Uh if you're really celebrating and Uh if you're really celebrating and Uh if you're really celebrating and glorifying people who are doing glorifying people who are doing glorifying people who are doing singleness, awesome. Cuz people can see singleness, awesome. Cuz people can see singleness, awesome. Cuz people can see it. You're giving them an archetype, a it. You're giving them an archetype, a it. You're giving them an archetype, a story, an example to follow. You know, story, an example to follow. You know, story, an example to follow. You know, >> that's the other thing. I mean, how many >> that's the other thing. I mean, how many >> that's the other thing. I mean, how many leaders at a church are single? Like leaders at a church are single? Like leaders at a church are single? Like >> exactly. I've seen the numbers on that. >> exactly. I've seen the numbers on that. >> exactly. I've seen the numbers on that. Like vast majority of senior pastors are Like vast majority of senior pastors are Like vast majority of senior pastors are married. There's very few. And if you're married. There's very few. And if you're married. There's very few. And if you're single, maybe it's cuz you got the job single, maybe it's cuz you got the job single, maybe it's cuz you got the job at 24, at 24, at 24, >> right? So yeah, that's true. It's it's >> right? So yeah, that's true. It's it's >> right? So yeah, that's true. It's it's really really really >> that's what I'm seeing and I'm the >> that's what I'm seeing and I'm the >> that's what I'm seeing and I'm the church community or I'm on staff and I'm church community or I'm on staff and I'm church community or I'm on staff and I'm like thinking, well, yeah, the only way like thinking, well, yeah, the only way like thinking, well, yeah, the only way I'm going to ever get, you know, I'm going to ever get, you know, I'm going to ever get, you know, rewarded here or be true leader here is rewarded here or be true leader here is rewarded here or be true leader here is if I'm married if I'm married if I'm married >> and that's not a good message for them.

>> and that's not a good message for them. >> and that's not a good message for them. So, I kind of want to do uh a round of So, I kind of want to do uh a round of So, I kind of want to do uh a round of dos and don'ts because dos and don'ts because dos and don'ts because >> if I'm sitting there preparing my annual >> if I'm sitting there preparing my annual >> if I'm sitting there preparing my annual series or even a message or my series or even a message or my series or even a message or my anecdotes, I want to play this back, get anecdotes, I want to play this back, get anecdotes, I want to play this back, get the transcripts, like try [laughter] to the transcripts, like try [laughter] to the transcripts, like try [laughter] to figure this out. Like, this is like figure this out. Like, this is like figure this out. Like, this is like >> eyepopping information for me. Anyway, >> eyepopping information for me. Anyway, >> eyepopping information for me. Anyway, personally, I I just really don't know personally, I I just really don't know personally, I I just really don't know what it's like out there. And you guys what it's like out there. And you guys what it's like out there. And you guys have been so helpful. But to the pastors have been so helpful. But to the pastors have been so helpful. But to the pastors who are watching this, listening to who are watching this, listening to who are watching this, listening to this, what are some dos and don'ts when this, what are some dos and don'ts when this, what are some dos and don'ts when you speak about family, singleness, you speak about family, singleness, you speak about family, singleness, dating, do this, don't do that. Just dating, do this, don't do that. Just dating, do this, don't do that. Just what what hits you? What should we do? what what hits you? What should we do? what what hits you? What should we do? >> I mean, dude, the first thing I want to >> I mean, dude, the first thing I want to >> I mean, dude, the first thing I want to say is thank you for taking time from say is thank you for taking time from say is thank you for taking time from the pull pit to speak to the singles. the pull pit to speak to the singles. the pull pit to speak to the singles. >> Yeah, do that. Speak to the >> Yeah, do that. Speak to the >> Yeah, do that. Speak to the >> That's awesome. And two, we want your >> That's awesome. And two, we want your >> That's awesome. And two, we want your wisdom. wisdom. wisdom. >> Like, please don't feel because of your >> Like, please don't feel because of your >> Like, please don't feel because of your age or you haven't done it in 30 years age or you haven't done it in 30 years age or you haven't done it in 30 years like you have nothing contri. We want like you have nothing contri. We want like you have nothing contri. We want your wisdom. I think just tailoring it your wisdom. I think just tailoring it your wisdom. I think just tailoring it in the best way possible so we can hear in the best way possible so we can hear in the best way possible so we can hear it. Knowing what the rules are, knowing it. Knowing what the rules are, knowing it. Knowing what the rules are, knowing what the boots on the ground are saying, what the boots on the ground are saying, what the boots on the ground are saying, and then applying that wisdom directly and then applying that wisdom directly and then applying that wisdom directly to those pain points, you know, those to those pain points, you know, those to those pain points, you know, those personal pain points. Uh that's a huge personal pain points. Uh that's a huge personal pain points. Uh that's a huge do, do, do, >> right?

>> right? >> right? >> Huge do. >> Huge do. >> Huge do. >> Yeah. I would say try to I know this is >> Yeah. I would say try to I know this is >> Yeah. I would say try to I know this is hard because most churches are focusing hard because most churches are focusing hard because most churches are focusing on marriage ministries, kids ministries, on marriage ministries, kids ministries, on marriage ministries, kids ministries, but can you try if you have a decent but can you try if you have a decent but can you try if you have a decent demographic of singles, you need to demographic of singles, you need to demographic of singles, you need to focus on the singles. you need to have focus on the singles. you need to have focus on the singles. you need to have some kind of singles ministry or you some kind of singles ministry or you some kind of singles ministry or you have to do something to invest in them have to do something to invest in them have to do something to invest in them because these are the people that will because these are the people that will because these are the people that will be in your marriage ministries if you be in your marriage ministries if you be in your marriage ministries if you serve them well. Yeah. serve them well. Yeah. serve them well. Yeah. >> And so I would really just challenge >> And so I would really just challenge >> And so I would really just challenge pastors like, hey, if you don't know how pastors like, hey, if you don't know how pastors like, hey, if you don't know how to do it, get I know you have single to do it, get I know you have single to do it, get I know you have single people on staff. Yeah. people on staff. Yeah. people on staff. Yeah. >> Get them involved. >> Get them involved. >> Get them involved. >> We're making for this actually right >> We're making for this actually right >> We're making for this actually right now. Good. now. Good. now. Good. >> Uh just basically how to how to create a >> Uh just basically how to how to create a >> Uh just basically how to how to create a third space. All they really need is a third space. All they really need is a third space. All they really need is a space. space. space. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And they they will connect and hang out >> And they they will connect and hang out >> And they they will connect and hang out and build that and build that and build that >> friendship. And it's not just young >> friendship. And it's not just young >> friendship. And it's not just young adults, okay? Because I'm not just adults, okay? Because I'm not just adults, okay? Because I'm not just talking about like because the asy you just say young adults and it's like you just say young adults and it's like 18 to 25, you're [laughter] the other 18 to 25, you're [laughter] the other 18 to 25, you're [laughter] the other half of your church congregation is like half of your church congregation is like half of your church congregation is like great. great. great. >> That's a good don't for me. >> That's a good don't for me. >> That's a good don't for me. >> Don't call it just young adults now, >> Don't call it just young adults now, >> Don't call it just young adults now, >> right?

>> right? >> right? >> Because it's all ages. >> Because it's all ages. >> Because it's all ages. >> So what are what are some don'ts? >> So what are what are some don'ts? >> So what are what are some don'ts? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Young adults. >> Young adults. >> Young adults. >> Young adults. >> Young adults. >> Young adults. It kind of automatically excludes It kind of automatically excludes It kind of automatically excludes everyone everyone everyone after 27. after 27. after 27. >> Well, and some people are single again. >> Well, and some people are single again. >> Well, and some people are single again. >> Like we have a lot of people to church >> Like we have a lot of people to church >> Like we have a lot of people to church after divorce. after divorce. after divorce. >> Um more rare but still happens after >> Um more rare but still happens after >> Um more rare but still happens after death of a spouse, death of a spouse, death of a spouse, >> right? And they're single again. >> right? And they're single again. >> right? And they're single again. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We serve a lot of those people >> Yeah. We serve a lot of those people >> Yeah. We serve a lot of those people still too. still too. still too. >> After 27, you kind of age out of the >> After 27, you kind of age out of the >> After 27, you kind of age out of the kind of college ministry, young adult kind of college ministry, young adult kind of college ministry, young adult ministry. You don't really feel like you ministry. You don't really feel like you ministry. You don't really feel like you have a home anymore. So then you're in have a home anymore. So then you're in have a home anymore. So then you're in like this no man's land from 27 until like this no man's land from 27 until like this no man's land from 27 until you get married. Yeah, you get married. Yeah, you get married. Yeah, >> like we're doing an event next week and >> like we're doing an event next week and >> like we're doing an event next week and on their website I had had to tell them on their website I had had to tell them on their website I had had to tell them I was like guys get rid of it saying I was like guys get rid of it saying I was like guys get rid of it saying young adults because if you want our young adults because if you want our young adults because if you want our people to come like we have people of people to come like we have people of people to come like we have people of all ages and I can see the emails now all ages and I can see the emails now all ages and I can see the emails now the 40-year-old that says hey this says the 40-year-old that says hey this says the 40-year-old that says hey this says young adults does that mean I'm not young adults does that mean I'm not young adults does that mean I'm not invited invited invited >> and so just eliminate that verbiage if >> and so just eliminate that verbiage if >> and so just eliminate that verbiage if you're trying to serve like you're trying to serve like you're trying to serve like >> just make it all ages >> just make it all ages >> just make it all ages >> make it make it um this here's another >> make it make it um this here's another >> make it make it um this here's another good don't I mean this is tactical but good don't I mean this is tactical but good don't I mean this is tactical but it's funny calling it like a singles or it's funny calling it like a singles or it's funny calling it like a singles or calling it a singles mixer. Everyone's calling it a singles mixer. Everyone's calling it a singles mixer. Everyone's guards go up. Ton of pressure. Like you guards go up. Ton of pressure. Like you guards go up. Ton of pressure. Like you will have 90 women show up and seven will have 90 women show up and seven will have 90 women show up and seven guys.

guys. guys. >> Oh, okay. So, what do you call it? >> Oh, okay. So, what do you call it? >> Oh, okay. So, what do you call it? >> We call it a singles night. >> We call it a singles night. >> We call it a singles night. >> Uh call it like a dating night or a >> Uh call it like a dating night or a >> Uh call it like a dating night or a hangout. Like we're calling we have a hangout. Like we're calling we have a hangout. Like we're calling we have a ugly Christmas sweater party by heart of ugly Christmas sweater party by heart of ugly Christmas sweater party by heart of dating. dating. dating. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> People read that and understand this is >> People read that and understand this is >> People read that and understand this is kind of a non-marriage event kind of a non-marriage event kind of a non-marriage event >> and it's just going to be hanging out >> and it's just going to be hanging out >> and it's just going to be hanging out and fun and we're not speed dating. and fun and we're not speed dating. and fun and we're not speed dating. We're not doing anything cringey or it's We're not doing anything cringey or it's We're not doing anything cringey or it's just a just a just a >> Is that a better moniker non-marri? >> Is that a better moniker non-marri? >> Is that a better moniker non-marri? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Is it? >> Is it? >> Is it? >> I think so. The singles I think if you >> I think so. The singles I think if you >> I think so. The singles I think if you call it a singles party, singles, call it a singles party, singles, call it a singles party, singles, they're like, "Oh my gosh, this is they're like, "Oh my gosh, this is they're like, "Oh my gosh, this is >> and the guys won't come cuz they're >> and the guys won't come cuz they're >> and the guys won't come cuz they're thinking the girls here are sizing. thinking the girls here are sizing. thinking the girls here are sizing. >> I thought the guys would come. I didn't >> I thought the guys would come. I didn't >> I thought the guys would come. I didn't show up cuz you're think about the show up cuz you're think about the show up cuz you're think about the 35year-old. I want to get married. My 35year-old. I want to get married. My 35year-old. I want to get married. My fertility clock. I'm here looking for my fertility clock. I'm here looking for my fertility clock. I'm here looking for my men are like cuz I'm going to get what? men are like cuz I'm going to get what? men are like cuz I'm going to get what? judged. judged. judged. >> Yeah. Uh judged by peers maybe. And then >> Yeah. Uh judged by peers maybe. And then >> Yeah. Uh judged by peers maybe. And then two, I'm going to get just surrounded. two, I'm going to get just surrounded. two, I'm going to get just surrounded. >> There's going to be so much pressure. >> There's going to be so much pressure. >> There's going to be so much pressure. They're going to want me to ask them They're going to want me to ask them They're going to want me to ask them out. I don't know. Like out. I don't know. Like out. I don't know. Like >> super high stakes. That's the whole >> super high stakes. That's the whole >> super high stakes. That's the whole point. Super high stakes, man. So that's point. Super high stakes, man. So that's point. Super high stakes, man. So that's why third space just super hang out.

why third space just super hang out. why third space just super hang out. Like I'm so passionate about that. Um, Like I'm so passionate about that. Um, Like I'm so passionate about that. Um, >> I would say another do is do more things >> I would say another do is do more things >> I would say another do is do more things that are like Q&A based because that are like Q&A based because that are like Q&A based because >> a lot of people have like these sermons, >> a lot of people have like these sermons, >> a lot of people have like these sermons, but honestly right now with where but honestly right now with where but honestly right now with where dating's at, it's there's so many dating's at, it's there's so many dating's at, it's there's so many questions. You can't cover that in a questions. You can't cover that in a questions. You can't cover that in a sermon sermon sermon >> and have it really hit people like in >> and have it really hit people like in >> and have it really hit people like in all their needs all their needs all their needs >> and answer their burning questions that >> and answer their burning questions that >> and answer their burning questions that they have like make it anonymous. they have like make it anonymous. they have like make it anonymous. >> Well, if I was pastoring a church where >> Well, if I was pastoring a church where >> Well, if I was pastoring a church where you're attending, what I'm doing as a you're attending, what I'm doing as a you're attending, what I'm doing as a next step is Kate and JJ, come over next step is Kate and JJ, come over next step is Kate and JJ, come over here. M here. M here. M >> can I sit down with you for an >> can I sit down with you for an >> can I sit down with you for an afternoon? Happy to pay you for your afternoon? Happy to pay you for your afternoon? Happy to pay you for your time. time. time. >> I just want to pick your brain like >> I just want to pick your brain like >> I just want to pick your brain like this. I I want you to look over my this. I I want you to look over my this. I I want you to look over my notes. I want you to see what I'm notes. I want you to see what I'm notes. I want you to see what I'm missing. I want you to see what I'm missing. I want you to see what I'm missing. I want you to see what I'm saying that's tonedeaf or outdated or saying that's tonedeaf or outdated or saying that's tonedeaf or outdated or whatever. I'm guessing that there and whatever. I'm guessing that there and whatever. I'm guessing that there and I've done that increasingly when I'm I've done that increasingly when I'm I've done that increasingly when I'm preaching at our church because I just preaching at our church because I just preaching at our church because I just know every year I get older, every year know every year I get older, every year know every year I get older, every year I'm more out of touch. I'll pull in a I'm more out of touch. I'll pull in a I'm more out of touch. I'll pull in a group of Gen Z's or group of Gen Z's or group of Gen Z's or >> younger millennials and I'm like >> younger millennials and I'm like >> younger millennials and I'm like unchurched people. How does this sit unchurched people. How does this sit unchurched people. How does this sit with you? What are what are you with you? What are what are you with you? What are what are you thinking? Yeah.

thinking? Yeah. thinking? Yeah. >> You know, would you do something like >> You know, would you do something like >> You know, would you do something like that where you just pull in that where you just pull in that where you just pull in >> couple of signal and then >> couple of signal and then >> couple of signal and then >> you know, even words, right, can really >> you know, even words, right, can really >> you know, even words, right, can really date you. Like I'm I'm sure I've used date you. Like I'm I'm sure I've used date you. Like I'm I'm sure I've used some terms some terms some terms >> in this last hour and a half that you're >> in this last hour and a half that you're >> in this last hour and a half that you're kind of like, whoa, that's a blast from kind of like, whoa, that's a blast from kind of like, whoa, that's a blast from the past. Like, is there anything you the past. Like, is there anything you the past. Like, is there anything you can tell me like cuz I'm I'm doing this can tell me like cuz I'm I'm doing this can tell me like cuz I'm I'm doing this cuz I'm genuinely curious. Anything I've cuz I'm genuinely curious. Anything I've cuz I'm genuinely curious. Anything I've said that feels really dated to you? said that feels really dated to you? said that feels really dated to you? >> Yeah. Well, first I would just say this. >> Yeah. Well, first I would just say this. >> Yeah. Well, first I would just say this. Thank you. Because what I hear in that Thank you. Because what I hear in that Thank you. Because what I hear in that and what I would encourage any pastor is and what I would encourage any pastor is and what I would encourage any pastor is you're not bowing down. You're not you're not bowing down. You're not you're not bowing down. You're not losing this power struggle. losing this power struggle. losing this power struggle. >> You're trying to be as loving as >> You're trying to be as loving as >> You're trying to be as loving as possible to reach people where they're possible to reach people where they're possible to reach people where they're at. at. at. >> 100%. >> 100%. >> 100%. >> Like I'm obsessed. We talked about >> Like I'm obsessed. We talked about >> Like I'm obsessed. We talked about Amazon today, like obsessing with the Amazon today, like obsessing with the Amazon today, like obsessing with the customer. customer. customer. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's the same thing. I'm obsessed with >> It's the same thing. I'm obsessed with >> It's the same thing. I'm obsessed with my audience and any barrier that gets in my audience and any barrier that gets in my audience and any barrier that gets in the way of them hearing the heart of the way of them hearing the heart of the way of them hearing the heart of Jesus, I want to eliminate. I do too, Jesus, I want to eliminate. I do too, Jesus, I want to eliminate. I do too, you know. So have those conversations. you know. So have those conversations. you know. So have those conversations. Uh, what might be a word that makes me Uh, what might be a word that makes me Uh, what might be a word that makes me feel outdated or not be taken seriously? feel outdated or not be taken seriously? feel outdated or not be taken seriously? That's a great question to ask. That's a great question to ask. That's a great question to ask. >> Yeah. Do you have any off the bat? >> Yeah. Do you have any off the bat? >> Yeah. Do you have any off the bat? >> Yeah. That that I have said, >> Yeah. That that I have said, >> Yeah. That that I have said, >> man. I would get gift to singleness is a >> man. I would get gift to singleness is a >> man. I would get gift to singleness is a supercharged one. [laughter] supercharged one. [laughter] supercharged one. [laughter] >> If you say those words, just be careful, >> If you say those words, just be careful, >> If you say those words, just be careful, man. Like, I'm praying for you cuz in a man. Like, I'm praying for you cuz in a man. Like, I'm praying for you cuz in a lot of ways call it the gift of single lot of ways call it the gift of single lot of ways call it the gift of single truth, truth, truth, >> right? Why? Because you're basically >> right? Why? Because you're basically >> right? Why? Because you're basically saying get over it.

saying get over it. saying get over it. >> Yeah. Whatever you want, whatever >> Yeah. Whatever you want, whatever >> Yeah. Whatever you want, whatever disappointment you have, get over it. disappointment you have, get over it. disappointment you have, get over it. Unless you're single, don't say it to Unless you're single, don't say it to Unless you're single, don't say it to the the the >> Any other fighting words? That's great. >> Any other fighting words? That's great. >> Any other fighting words? That's great. So, gift of singleness. And anything So, gift of singleness. And anything So, gift of singleness. And anything else you heard today? else you heard today? else you heard today? >> Gift of this is what we do. We just sit >> Gift of this is what we do. We just sit >> Gift of this is what we do. We just sit there, we read the Bible, and we're there, we read the Bible, and we're there, we read the Bible, and we're like, "All right, I'm going to call this like, "All right, I'm going to call this like, "All right, I'm going to call this week the gift of singleness." Not week the gift of singleness." Not week the gift of singleness." Not realizing realizing realizing >> I would say contentment. That's another >> I would say contentment. That's another >> I would say contentment. That's another one because um that's a loaded word. one because um that's a loaded word. one because um that's a loaded word. Again, I we believe in these things, Again, I we believe in these things, Again, I we believe in these things, right? I believe you can find right? I believe you can find right? I believe you can find contentment in singleness and still have contentment in singleness and still have contentment in singleness and still have the desire. but the word contentment and the desire. but the word contentment and the desire. but the word contentment and they're like just be content or you know they're like just be content or you know they're like just be content or you know also as a married person especially if also as a married person especially if also as a married person especially if you're a leader so easy for you to say you're a leader so easy for you to say you're a leader so easy for you to say you know I miss that oh you you have it you know I miss that oh you you have it you know I miss that oh you you have it so good it's so fun like you get you so good it's so fun like you get you so good it's so fun like you get you know I miss my dating life and you know know I miss my dating life and you know know I miss my dating life and you know the more singles hear that they're like the more singles hear that they're like the more singles hear that they're like dude are you kidding me right now you dude are you kidding me right now you dude are you kidding me right now you have no idea what it's like to be dating have no idea what it's like to be dating have no idea what it's like to be dating and it's like to be me and it's like to be me and it's like to be me >> when you were dating and your peers and >> when you were dating and your peers and >> when you were dating and your peers and who are speaking on this the amount of who are speaking on this the amount of who are speaking on this the amount of just train wrecks heartbreak and pain just train wrecks heartbreak and pain just train wrecks heartbreak and pain sitt sitting in that audience probably sitt sitting in that audience probably sitt sitting in that audience probably you don't really understand or realize you don't really understand or realize you don't really understand or realize how much is out there.

how much is out there. how much is out there. >> There's 10 times probably more grieving, >> There's 10 times probably more grieving, >> There's 10 times probably more grieving, pain, heartbreak, wreckage. So when you pain, heartbreak, wreckage. So when you pain, heartbreak, wreckage. So when you skirt over that, that's that's where skirt over that, that's that's where skirt over that, that's that's where that animosity. that animosity. that animosity. >> So the empathy, the listening, and maybe >> So the empathy, the listening, and maybe >> So the empathy, the listening, and maybe talk about your own failures, the talk about your own failures, the talk about your own failures, the relationships that didn't work out, the relationships that didn't work out, the relationships that didn't work out, the hard se I know Tony and I, you know, hard se I know Tony and I, you know, hard se I know Tony and I, you know, we've been through everything over the we've been through everything over the we've been through everything over the last 35 years. We've married 37 since I last 35 years. We've married 37 since I last 35 years. We've married 37 since I met her. And when we share out of our met her. And when we share out of our met her. And when we share out of our pain, like you guys have been part of pain, like you guys have been part of pain, like you guys have been part of that at a retreat, that's where we met that at a retreat, that's where we met that at a retreat, that's where we met you. you. you. >> That really resonates with people >> That really resonates with people >> That really resonates with people because I really believe, you know, because I really believe, you know, because I really believe, you know, people admire your strengths, but they people admire your strengths, but they people admire your strengths, but they resonate with your weaknesses. resonate with your weaknesses. resonate with your weaknesses. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And so the more I share out of my >> And so the more I share out of my >> And so the more I share out of my brokenness or my problems, the more that brokenness or my problems, the more that brokenness or my problems, the more that probably resonates. Is that what you're probably resonates. Is that what you're probably resonates. Is that what you're saying? saying? saying? >> Yeah, it resonates. And and and more >> Yeah, it resonates. And and and more >> Yeah, it resonates. And and and more importantly just acknowledging like importantly just acknowledging like importantly just acknowledging like I got off a call right before this, a I got off a call right before this, a I got off a call right before this, a coaching call with a 44 year old girl coaching call with a 44 year old girl coaching call with a 44 year old girl who's we have to talk about her freezing who's we have to talk about her freezing who's we have to talk about her freezing her eggs. Like what what can I say to that?

Like what what can I say to that? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know, like >> You know, like >> You know, like so that's the kind of stuff, you know, so that's the kind of stuff, you know, so that's the kind of stuff, you know, those are the kind of conversations some those are the kind of conversations some those are the kind of conversations some of the the women in your audience are of the the women in your audience are of the the women in your audience are having to acknowledge. You know, like having to acknowledge. You know, like having to acknowledge. You know, like think about what Kate just went through, think about what Kate just went through, think about what Kate just went through, you know, like we just there's so much you know, like we just there's so much you know, like we just there's so much pain out there. So before we try to tell pain out there. So before we try to tell pain out there. So before we try to tell them, you know, what to do or them, you know, what to do or them, you know, what to do or Yeah. Yeah. Like just acknowledge you're Yeah. Yeah. Like just acknowledge you're Yeah. Yeah. Like just acknowledge you're stepping into it, just so much pain. So stepping into it, just so much pain. So stepping into it, just so much pain. So that's like any of the animosity or push that's like any of the animosity or push that's like any of the animosity or push back or anything you get is typically back or anything you get is typically back or anything you get is typically driven by the pain of your singles driven by the pain of your singles driven by the pain of your singles coming to you. coming to you. coming to you. >> And if a lot of pastors have told me >> And if a lot of pastors have told me >> And if a lot of pastors have told me like I just feel unequipped to talk to like I just feel unequipped to talk to like I just feel unequipped to talk to singles. So my biggest thing for you if singles. So my biggest thing for you if singles. So my biggest thing for you if you feel unequipped is hey as long as you feel unequipped is hey as long as you feel unequipped is hey as long as you just get around some of the singles you just get around some of the singles you just get around some of the singles in your community have them over like in your community have them over like in your community have them over like you just said earlier like if you can be you just said earlier like if you can be you just said earlier like if you can be there teaching a message where you're there teaching a message where you're there teaching a message where you're bringing in stories of singles that bringing in stories of singles that bringing in stories of singles that you've actively talked to and you're you you've actively talked to and you're you you've actively talked to and you're you they can feel like you've actually tried they can feel like you've actually tried they can feel like you've actually tried to step into their shoes. It helps so to step into their shoes. It helps so to step into their shoes. It helps so much. much. much. >> I will often interview Yeah. uh in a >> I will often interview Yeah. uh in a >> I will often interview Yeah. uh in a series if I'm really out of my league, series if I'm really out of my league, series if I'm really out of my league, I'll interview some people. Is that a I'll interview some people. Is that a I'll interview some people. Is that a good idea?

good idea? good idea? >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Like articulate people who can like you, >> Like articulate people who can like you, >> Like articulate people who can like you, you were single, but you're also able to you were single, but you're also able to you were single, but you're also able to talk about being single, talk about being single, talk about being single, >> right? In a way that was helpful. >> right? In a way that was helpful. >> right? In a way that was helpful. >> That's always a key. >> That's always a key. >> That's always a key. >> Get a get a 23-year-old, a 33-year-old, >> Get a get a 23-year-old, a 33-year-old, >> Get a get a 23-year-old, a 33-year-old, and a 43y old. Maybe one's divorced, and a 43y old. Maybe one's divorced, and a 43y old. Maybe one's divorced, one's never dated, and one's dated all one's never dated, and one's dated all one's never dated, and one's dated all the wrong ways, you know, the wrong ways, you know, the wrong ways, you know, >> and just be dumb like me. Okay. What do >> and just be dumb like me. Okay. What do >> and just be dumb like me. Okay. What do I not know? I not know? I not know? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> What do I not understand? Right. Rather >> What do I not understand? Right. Rather >> What do I not understand? Right. Rather than always being the advice giver. than always being the advice giver. than always being the advice giver. Totally. Right. Okay. That's really Totally. Right. Okay. That's really Totally. Right. Okay. That's really really helpful. really helpful. really helpful. >> Yeah. And an easy way to do that >> Yeah. And an easy way to do that >> Yeah. And an easy way to do that naturally is just like adopt a single at naturally is just like adopt a single at naturally is just like adopt a single at least always as a married couple. Just least always as a married couple. Just least always as a married couple. Just have one single person who is always have one single person who is always have one single person who is always over. You're interested in you're over. You're interested in you're over. You're interested in you're serving. You're loving serving. You're loving serving. You're loving >> you're they're just around your life and >> you're they're just around your life and >> you're they're just around your life and vice versa. vice versa. vice versa. >> And uh series relationship series good >> And uh series relationship series good >> And uh series relationship series good idea bad idea. idea bad idea. idea bad idea. >> I still think make it fun but like >> I still think make it fun but like >> I still think make it fun but like >> I still think they need it. I still >> I still think they need it. I still >> I still think they need it. I still think they want it. think they want it. think they want it. >> Uh I think it shouldn't be the only time >> Uh I think it shouldn't be the only time >> Uh I think it shouldn't be the only time like try to do things not on a Sunday like try to do things not on a Sunday like try to do things not on a Sunday for singles, you know, something else for singles, you know, something else for singles, you know, something else during the year.

during the year. during the year. >> But yeah, I still think the relationship >> But yeah, I still think the relationship >> But yeah, I still think the relationship series is fine. I would say though, series is fine. I would say though, series is fine. I would say though, please try to give framework. Please try please try to give framework. Please try please try to give framework. Please try to do more panels than just like do give to do more panels than just like do give to do more panels than just like do give me a message on the gift of singleness, me a message on the gift of singleness, me a message on the gift of singleness, you know, like I they're over it. you know, like I they're over it. you know, like I they're over it. They're over. They're over. They're over. >> Yeah. And maybe maybe also, you know, in >> Yeah. And maybe maybe also, you know, in >> Yeah. And maybe maybe also, you know, in the um weekly analogies cuz you're the um weekly analogies cuz you're the um weekly analogies cuz you're always giving examples. Doesn't matter always giving examples. Doesn't matter always giving examples. Doesn't matter what you're preaching. You be preaching what you're preaching. You be preaching what you're preaching. You be preaching about money, preaching about faith, about money, preaching about faith, about money, preaching about faith, preaching about scripture. You're always preaching about scripture. You're always preaching about scripture. You're always saying, "So when you get home, saying, "So when you get home, saying, "So when you get home, >> home isn't always in the suburbs with a >> home isn't always in the suburbs with a >> home isn't always in the suburbs with a husband and wife and a kid." husband and wife and a kid." husband and wife and a kid." >> You can be in an apartment by yourself. >> You can be in an apartment by yourself. >> You can be in an apartment by yourself. It can be increasingly living with It can be increasingly living with It can be increasingly living with roommates. roommates. roommates. >> It can mean a lot of different things. >> It can mean a lot of different things. >> It can mean a lot of different things. And so to make sure that our analogies And so to make sure that our analogies And so to make sure that our analogies aren't always based on our particular aren't always based on our particular aren't always based on our particular reality, which for most pastors is reality, which for most pastors is reality, which for most pastors is >> married with kids. >> married with kids. >> married with kids. >> Totally. I mean, it could this is a huge >> Totally. I mean, it could this is a huge >> Totally. I mean, it could this is a huge demographic in your audience. This is demographic in your audience. This is demographic in your audience. This is not 5%. not 5%. not 5%. >> And Annie F. Downs has talked about that >> And Annie F. Downs has talked about that >> And Annie F. Downs has talked about that on this show before, you know, and she's on this show before, you know, and she's on this show before, you know, and she's like, you know, and she's a teaching like, you know, and she's a teaching like, you know, and she's a teaching pastor at her church, but pastor at her church, but pastor at her church, but >> it's just really hard for singles >> it's just really hard for singles >> it's just really hard for singles because it's like we feel like we don't because it's like we feel like we don't because it's like we feel like we don't fit.

fit. fit. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And uh well, I'm really grateful for >> And uh well, I'm really grateful for >> And uh well, I'm really grateful for this. Anything we didn't touch on that this. Anything we didn't touch on that this. Anything we didn't touch on that we need to talk about? This is we need to talk about? This is we need to talk about? This is >> been a good education. >> been a good education. >> been a good education. >> We really covered a lot of what we >> We really covered a lot of what we >> We really covered a lot of what we wanted to say. wanted to say. wanted to say. >> Yeah. I would probably say the last >> Yeah. I would probably say the last >> Yeah. I would probably say the last thing is thing is thing is >> it's so easy to forget but when you were >> it's so easy to forget but when you were >> it's so easy to forget but when you were 23 24 when I was 25 before I met Kate 23 24 when I was 25 before I met Kate 23 24 when I was 25 before I met Kate probably the number one thing that is probably the number one thing that is probably the number one thing that is fighting for their attention to focus on fighting for their attention to focus on fighting for their attention to focus on Christ and worship your message is who Christ and worship your message is who Christ and worship your message is who is the other attractive single person is the other attractive single person is the other attractive single person here that I could talk to here that I could talk to here that I could talk to >> like that is I I think we forget that >> like that is I I think we forget that >> like that is I I think we forget that >> this is the number one thing in a single >> this is the number one thing in a single >> this is the number one thing in a single person's brain person's brain person's brain >> and it doesn't matter are doesn't >> and it doesn't matter are doesn't >> and it doesn't matter are doesn't matter. It never coffee shop matter. It never coffee shop matter. It never coffee shop >> turns off. >> turns off. >> turns off. >> So just remember that like this is the >> So just remember that like this is the >> So just remember that like this is the top of mind thing always 247 for them. top of mind thing always 247 for them. top of mind thing always 247 for them. >> And so that I would say, you know, >> And so that I would say, you know, >> And so that I would say, you know, that's why like a series might not be that's why like a series might not be that's why like a series might not be enough. enough. enough. >> Yeah. Well, and I think too, you know, >> Yeah. Well, and I think too, you know, >> Yeah. Well, and I think too, you know, it's in the it's in the small it's in the it's in the small it's in the it's in the small illustrations, anecdotes, you know, 52 illustrations, anecdotes, you know, 52 illustrations, anecdotes, you know, 52 Sundays a year that you really set the Sundays a year that you really set the Sundays a year that you really set the culture. Yes.

culture. Yes. culture. Yes. >> And if you bake what we've been talking >> And if you bake what we've been talking >> And if you bake what we've been talking about for the last, you know, for this about for the last, you know, for this about for the last, you know, for this episode into that culture, it's it's episode into that culture, it's it's episode into that culture, it's it's going to seep in. It's not like one one going to seep in. It's not like one one going to seep in. It's not like one one message and done. message and done. message and done. >> And I mean, most people aren't even >> And I mean, most people aren't even >> And I mean, most people aren't even there for the message. So, it's in your there for the message. So, it's in your there for the message. So, it's in your emails, it's in your social media. emails, it's in your social media. emails, it's in your social media. >> What are you normalizing? How are you >> What are you normalizing? How are you >> What are you normalizing? How are you empathizing? I I did a ministry time at empathizing? I I did a ministry time at empathizing? I I did a ministry time at church two weeks ago and just in that church two weeks ago and just in that church two weeks ago and just in that prayer or like kind of talk for 15 prayer or like kind of talk for 15 prayer or like kind of talk for 15 minutes, I just mentioned one thing minutes, I just mentioned one thing minutes, I just mentioned one thing about a as a single what are you looking about a as a single what are you looking about a as a single what are you looking at or doing at 10 o'clock at night on a at or doing at 10 o'clock at night on a at or doing at 10 o'clock at night on a Friday night. I think I had 10 people Friday night. I think I had 10 people Friday night. I think I had 10 people come up to me. come up to me. come up to me. I've actually never had so many people I've actually never had so many people I've actually never had so many people come up to me after like a little come up to me after like a little come up to me after like a little message and just say, "Thank you so much message and just say, "Thank you so much message and just say, "Thank you so much for praying for the singles. That meant for praying for the singles. That meant for praying for the singles. That meant so much to me." so much to me." so much to me." >> Like I mean what? There was like 5 >> Like I mean what? There was like 5 >> Like I mean what? There was like 5 seconds. seconds. seconds. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So this is a great example like >> Yeah. So this is a great example like >> Yeah. So this is a great example like >> so put us in touch with your resources. >> so put us in touch with your resources. >> so put us in touch with your resources. Where are people going to track with you Where are people going to track with you Where are people going to track with you online? online? online? >> Yeah, hearttoofdating.com the podcast on >> Yeah, hearttoofdating.com the podcast on >> Yeah, hearttoofdating.com the podcast on YouTube anywhere. We do a mentorship YouTube anywhere. We do a mentorship YouTube anywhere. We do a mentorship program that where we really get to walk program that where we really get to walk program that where we really get to walk people through how to date well. I mean people through how to date well. I mean people through how to date well. I mean a system of 16 sessions that we teach a system of 16 sessions that we teach a system of 16 sessions that we teach live with them and we walk them through live with them and we walk them through live with them and we walk them through everything. And so that's school of everything. And so that's school of everything. And so that's school of dating. We're really passionate about dating. We're really passionate about dating. We're really passionate about that. But yeah, we have tons of free I that. But yeah, we have tons of free I that. But yeah, we have tons of free I mean podcasts out there, free resources, mean podcasts out there, free resources, mean podcasts out there, free resources, all the dating personality quiz. Okay.

all the dating personality quiz. Okay. all the dating personality quiz. Okay. >> Yeah, I want to see yours actually. >> Yeah, I want to see yours actually. >> Yeah, I want to see yours actually. >> Well, that'll be fun. Tony and I'll do >> Well, that'll be fun. Tony and I'll do >> Well, that'll be fun. Tony and I'll do see whether maybe see whether maybe see whether maybe >> I don't think this was a mistake. >> I don't think this was a mistake. >> I don't think this was a mistake. >> Yeah. How do I No, but you know that >> Yeah. How do I No, but you know that >> Yeah. How do I No, but you know that compatibility, it's compatibility, it's compatibility, it's >> really important. It's gotten us our >> really important. It's gotten us our >> really important. It's gotten us our values, our compatibility, our faith has values, our compatibility, our faith has values, our compatibility, our faith has gotten us through the bad times, the gotten us through the bad times, the gotten us through the bad times, the good times. And you know, we've been in good times. And you know, we've been in good times. And you know, we've been in Nashville now for almost a month, Nashville now for almost a month, Nashville now for almost a month, heading home soon. It's like this has heading home soon. It's like this has heading home soon. It's like this has been a really good month. We had one been a really good month. We had one been a really good month. We had one little hiccup that lasted about 30 little hiccup that lasted about 30 little hiccup that lasted about 30 minutes just relationally. And you minutes just relationally. And you minutes just relationally. And you eventually, you know, you guys are in eventually, you know, you guys are in eventually, you know, you guys are in the hard work season right now. the hard work season right now. the hard work season right now. >> You are three years into your marriage, >> You are three years into your marriage, >> You are three years into your marriage, but it really it really bears fruit over but it really it really bears fruit over but it really it really bears fruit over time and um and that's yeah, this has time and um and that's yeah, this has time and um and that's yeah, this has been really helpful. So, I want to thank been really helpful. So, I want to thank been really helpful. So, I want to thank you. I'm really glad. I'm like, "Hey, you. I'm really glad. I'm like, "Hey, you. I'm really glad. I'm like, "Hey, would you guys come on just to talk would you guys come on just to talk would you guys come on just to talk about this stuff?" Because I have about this stuff?" Because I have about this stuff?" Because I have learned so much. learned so much. learned so much. >> No, you're great. Thanks so much. I >> No, you're great. Thanks so much. I >> No, you're great. Thanks so much. I appreciate you both personally and appreciate you both personally and appreciate you both personally and really appreciate our time together really appreciate our time together really appreciate our time together today. Thank today. Thank today. Thank >> Well, I hope that was helpful. You can >> Well, I hope that was helpful. You can >> Well, I hope that was helpful. You can get the show notes in the Art of get the show notes in the Art of get the show notes in the Art of Leadership Academy. That's where we put Leadership Academy. That's where we put Leadership Academy. That's where we put them all. Join over 15,000 pastors, them all. Join over 15,000 pastors, them all. Join over 15,000 pastors, church leaders who are in the academy.

church leaders who are in the academy. church leaders who are in the academy. You can set up a free account for that. You can set up a free account for that. You can set up a free account for that. Just go to the art of Just go to the art of Just go to the art of leadershipacademy.com. leadershipacademy.com. leadershipacademy.com. You'll find everything in there. And uh You'll find everything in there. And uh You'll find everything in there. And uh want to thank those of you who are want to thank those of you who are want to thank those of you who are tuning in for the first time. I imagine tuning in for the first time. I imagine tuning in for the first time. I imagine a podcast like this is bringing in a lot a podcast like this is bringing in a lot a podcast like this is bringing in a lot of you who are here for the first time. of you who are here for the first time. of you who are here for the first time. So give us a like or a follow. Also So give us a like or a follow. Also So give us a like or a follow. Also maybe subscribe where you're listening maybe subscribe where you're listening maybe subscribe where you're listening to this podcast. We still have a lot to this podcast. We still have a lot to this podcast. We still have a lot more listeners and viewers. So make sure more listeners and viewers. So make sure more listeners and viewers. So make sure you do that. And we're back next time you do that. And we're back next time you do that. And we're back next time with a fresh episode. Chelsea Smith with a fresh episode. Chelsea Smith with a fresh episode. Chelsea Smith joins me and we're going to talk more joins me and we're going to talk more joins me and we're going to talk more relationship. That's going to be a lot relationship. That's going to be a lot relationship. That's going to be a lot of fun. Love Judah and Chelsea. Also got of fun. Love Judah and Chelsea. Also got of fun. Love Judah and Chelsea. Also got a lot of incredible guests coming up and a lot of incredible guests coming up and a lot of incredible guests coming up and including John Christ. We've got Arthur including John Christ. We've got Arthur including John Christ. We've got Arthur Brooks returning to the podcast and a Brooks returning to the podcast and a Brooks returning to the podcast and a lot more. So when you follow you will lot more. So when you follow you will lot more. So when you follow you will get all of that automatically. Thanks so get all of that automatically. Thanks so get all of that automatically. Thanks so much for listening and I hope our time much for listening and I hope our time much for listening and I hope our time together today maybe helped you and your together today maybe helped you and your together today maybe helped you and your church identify and break a growth church identify and break a growth church identify and break a growth barrier perhaps with singles that you're barrier perhaps with singles that you're barrier perhaps with singles that you're facing.