Why Are So Many Gen Z Guys Becoming Christian?

I think atheism's gone pretty much I think atheism's gone pretty much amongst young people. Um the evidence is amongst young people. Um the evidence is amongst young people. Um the evidence is is it's gone down from 25% amongst is it's gone down from 25% amongst is it's gone down from 25% amongst generation Y to I think something like generation Y to I think something like generation Y to I think something like 20% amongst generation um uh X and 13% 20% amongst generation um uh X and 13% 20% amongst generation um uh X and 13% generation Z or zed. Um so it's h generation Z or zed. Um so it's h generation Z or zed. Um so it's h haveved. Gen Z men are converting to haveved. Gen Z men are converting to haveved. Gen Z men are converting to Christianity. That's crazy. like in Christianity. That's crazy. like in Christianity. That's crazy. like in record numbers. In the United Kingdom record numbers. In the United Kingdom record numbers. In the United Kingdom just a few years ago, it was a church just a few years ago, it was a church just a few years ago, it was a church full of grandmothers with very little full of grandmothers with very little full of grandmothers with very little revival. But now things are changing revival. But now things are changing revival. But now things are changing quickly. Hey, welcome to part three of quickly. Hey, welcome to part three of quickly. Hey, welcome to part three of the revival series on my podcast. We are the revival series on my podcast. We are the revival series on my podcast. We are talking about what's happening around talking about what's happening around talking about what's happening around the world. And today we're going into the world. And today we're going into the world. And today we're going into the UK. We're going to sit down with the UK. We're going to sit down with the UK. We're going to sit down with Nikki Gumble, Al Gordon, and Steven Nikki Gumble, Al Gordon, and Steven Nikki Gumble, Al Gordon, and Steven Foster on reversing generations of Foster on reversing generations of Foster on reversing generations of church decline. I really think what's church decline. I really think what's church decline. I really think what's happening in the UK is a precursor to happening in the UK is a precursor to happening in the UK is a precursor to what's going to happen in America. Will what's going to happen in America. Will what's going to happen in America. Will explain why. And I really want you to explain why. And I really want you to explain why. And I really want you to pay attention to the humility, the pay attention to the humility, the pay attention to the humility, the gentleness, the spirit between these gentleness, the spirit between these gentleness, the spirit between these church leaders. And I think we should be church leaders. And I think we should be church leaders. And I think we should be taking notes. So, this is part of a taking notes. So, this is part of a taking notes. So, this is part of a revival series. You can catch all the revival series. You can catch all the revival series. You can catch all the episodes of the revival series in the episodes of the revival series in the episodes of the revival series in the playlist linked in the description. So, playlist linked in the description. So, playlist linked in the description. So, you're going to be able to catch John you're going to be able to catch John you're going to be able to catch John Tyson on preparing and preaching for Tyson on preparing and preaching for Tyson on preparing and preaching for revival, the history of revival, Zack revival, the history of revival, Zack revival, the history of revival, Zack Mirs, uh, talking about what happened at Mirs, uh, talking about what happened at Mirs, uh, talking about what happened at Aspbury, an insiders account, what's Aspbury, an insiders account, what's Aspbury, an insiders account, what's happening at Saddleback with Luke Lef happening at Saddleback with Luke Lef happening at Saddleback with Luke Lef Fever and Andy Wood. And also we're next Fever and Andy Wood. And also we're next Fever and Andy Wood. And also we're next time going to hear from JPluda on what's time going to hear from JPluda on what's time going to hear from JPluda on what's happening with college students. So if happening with college students. So if happening with college students. So if you want to catch that whole thing, you want to catch that whole thing, you want to catch that whole thing, you'll see the playlist just uh you know you'll see the playlist just uh you know you'll see the playlist just uh you know subscribe, you'll never miss a thing.

subscribe, you'll never miss a thing. subscribe, you'll never miss a thing. That's good. Leave a comment to join the That's good. Leave a comment to join the That's good. Leave a comment to join the conversation. And I'm really excited to conversation. And I'm really excited to conversation. And I'm really excited to have this dialogue with you. I would have this dialogue with you. I would have this dialogue with you. I would love to hear from you in the comments. love to hear from you in the comments. love to hear from you in the comments. So in the meantime, please have a look So in the meantime, please have a look So in the meantime, please have a look at what our partners have to say and at what our partners have to say and at what our partners have to say and then I'll jump right into my then I'll jump right into my then I'll jump right into my conversation, my panel discussion with conversation, my panel discussion with conversation, my panel discussion with Nikki Gumble, Steven Foster, and Al Nikki Gumble, Steven Foster, and Al Nikki Gumble, Steven Foster, and Al Gordon. This episode is brought to you Gordon. This episode is brought to you Gordon. This episode is brought to you by Glue Plus. Believe it or not, fall is by Glue Plus. Believe it or not, fall is by Glue Plus. Believe it or not, fall is actually just around the corner and with actually just around the corner and with actually just around the corner and with it comes one of the busiest seasons in it comes one of the busiest seasons in it comes one of the busiest seasons in ministry. But what if instead of feeling ministry. But what if instead of feeling ministry. But what if instead of feeling stressed, you could actually feel ready? stressed, you could actually feel ready? stressed, you could actually feel ready? That's where Glue Plus comes in. With That's where Glue Plus comes in. With That's where Glue Plus comes in. With powerful messaging tools and group powerful messaging tools and group powerful messaging tools and group features, you'll keep every team, features, you'll keep every team, features, you'll keep every team, parents, volunteers, leaders in the loop parents, volunteers, leaders in the loop parents, volunteers, leaders in the loop and connected. Automated workflows and connected. Automated workflows and connected. Automated workflows handle follow-ups and reminders so you handle follow-ups and reminders so you handle follow-ups and reminders so you can focus on ministry, not logistics. can focus on ministry, not logistics. can focus on ministry, not logistics. And tools like the new mover program And tools like the new mover program And tools like the new mover program help you connect with new families right help you connect with new families right help you connect with new families right away as they move into your community. away as they move into your community. away as they move into your community. Thousands of churches are using Glue Thousands of churches are using Glue Thousands of churches are using Glue Plus to simplify their fall planning and Plus to simplify their fall planning and Plus to simplify their fall planning and lead with confidence. And you can too. lead with confidence. And you can too. lead with confidence. And you can too. So this fall, don't just survive the So this fall, don't just survive the So this fall, don't just survive the rush, lead through it. Head to rush, lead through it. Head to rush, lead through it. Head to glue.com/plus.

glue.com/plus. glue.com/plus. That's glus That's glus That's glus to get your church fall ready today. to get your church fall ready today. to get your church fall ready today. Today's episode is brought to you by the Today's episode is brought to you by the Today's episode is brought to you by the Art of Leadership Academy. One of the Art of Leadership Academy. One of the Art of Leadership Academy. One of the things that really struck me about this things that really struck me about this things that really struck me about this conversation and what's happening in the conversation and what's happening in the conversation and what's happening in the UK, especially with Gen Z, is how much UK, especially with Gen Z, is how much UK, especially with Gen Z, is how much it's the result of a long obedience in it's the result of a long obedience in it's the result of a long obedience in the same direction, right? Patience, the same direction, right? Patience, the same direction, right? Patience, prayer, years of it, decades of it, and prayer, years of it, decades of it, and prayer, years of it, decades of it, and now fruit. And if you're wondering how now fruit. And if you're wondering how now fruit. And if you're wondering how to cultivate that kind of long-term to cultivate that kind of long-term to cultivate that kind of long-term momentum in your own context, my best momentum in your own context, my best momentum in your own context, my best advice is don't do it alone. Inside the advice is don't do it alone. Inside the advice is don't do it alone. Inside the Art of Leadership Academy, you'll find a Art of Leadership Academy, you'll find a Art of Leadership Academy, you'll find a community of church leaders who are community of church leaders who are community of church leaders who are committed to growing together, who committed to growing together, who committed to growing together, who support each other. We actually see support each other. We actually see support each other. We actually see friendships formed there. People are friendships formed there. People are friendships formed there. People are like, "What? You're in here, too?" And like, "What? You're in here, too?" And like, "What? You're in here, too?" And they meet new people as well. People who they meet new people as well. People who they meet new people as well. People who push through the hard seasons and push through the hard seasons and push through the hard seasons and celebrate when the breakthrough comes. celebrate when the breakthrough comes. celebrate when the breakthrough comes. And best yet, it's trollfree. All right. And best yet, it's trollfree. All right. And best yet, it's trollfree. All right. If somebody gets out of line, they don't If somebody gets out of line, they don't If somebody gets out of line, they don't stay in the community for long. And we stay in the community for long. And we stay in the community for long. And we almost never have to do that. There's a almost never have to do that. There's a almost never have to do that. There's a conversation thread unpacking this conversation thread unpacking this conversation thread unpacking this episode right now, plus access to past episode right now, plus access to past episode right now, plus access to past show notes, teaching videos, leadership show notes, teaching videos, leadership show notes, teaching videos, leadership articles, and a whole lot more. I would articles, and a whole lot more. I would articles, and a whole lot more. I would love for you to join the over 7,000, love for you to join the over 7,000, love for you to join the over 7,000, maybe 8,000 by this time leaders who are maybe 8,000 by this time leaders who are maybe 8,000 by this time leaders who are inside the Art of Leadership Academy.

inside the Art of Leadership Academy. inside the Art of Leadership Academy. You got a brand new free track just for You got a brand new free track just for You got a brand new free track just for you. Head on over to the art of you. Head on over to the art of you. Head on over to the art of leadershipacademy.com or click the link leadershipacademy.com or click the link leadershipacademy.com or click the link in the description of this episode to in the description of this episode to in the description of this episode to join absolutely free. I'd love to hear join absolutely free. I'd love to hear join absolutely free. I'd love to hear what this episode sparked for you. Well, what this episode sparked for you. Well, what this episode sparked for you. Well, it's a real treat to have a panel. I it's a real treat to have a panel. I it's a real treat to have a panel. I know sometimes having three different know sometimes having three different know sometimes having three different voices can be a little bit of a voices can be a little bit of a voices can be a little bit of a challenge, but there are three leaders I challenge, but there are three leaders I challenge, but there are three leaders I really, really admire. So glad you all really, really admire. So glad you all really, really admire. So glad you all made the time to join us. So, Nikki, made the time to join us. So, Nikki, made the time to join us. So, Nikki, Steven, Al, welcome. What a delight to Steven, Al, welcome. What a delight to Steven, Al, welcome. What a delight to have each of you. have each of you. have each of you. >> Lovely to be with you, Carrie, as >> Lovely to be with you, Carrie, as >> Lovely to be with you, Carrie, as always. always. always. >> Yeah, Al, you've been on before. And >> Yeah, Al, you've been on before. And >> Yeah, Al, you've been on before. And Stephen, first rodeo, so welcome, as Stephen, first rodeo, so welcome, as Stephen, first rodeo, so welcome, as they say, right? they say, right? they say, right? >> It's a joy to be here. It's a joy to be >> It's a joy to be here. It's a joy to be >> It's a joy to be here. It's a joy to be with you, Carrick. with you, Carrick. with you, Carrick. >> Yeah. So, you know, it's sort of a panel >> Yeah. So, you know, it's sort of a panel >> Yeah. So, you know, it's sort of a panel discussion on some amazing things discussion on some amazing things discussion on some amazing things happening in the UK right now. I was happening in the UK right now. I was happening in the UK right now. I was there a year ago. I've I've been there there a year ago. I've I've been there there a year ago. I've I've been there before that and I've seen the prequels before that and I've seen the prequels before that and I've seen the prequels of this, but the data is becoming of this, but the data is becoming of this, but the data is becoming overwhelming. Um, God is doing overwhelming. Um, God is doing overwhelming. Um, God is doing something. It's starting to be something. It's starting to be something. It's starting to be quantifiable, measurable. uh we'll share quantifiable, measurable. uh we'll share quantifiable, measurable. uh we'll share links to the report and we'll hit on links to the report and we'll hit on links to the report and we'll hit on some of the data but I'd love to start some of the data but I'd love to start some of the data but I'd love to start by going back and Nikki maybe we'll by going back and Nikki maybe we'll by going back and Nikki maybe we'll start with you you know the situation start with you you know the situation start with you you know the situation facing the UK church when you became a facing the UK church when you became a facing the UK church when you became a victor or victor sorry when you became a victor or victor sorry when you became a victor or victor sorry when you became a vicer or associate vicer or associate vicer or associate >> I wish I had become a victor >> I wish I had become a victor >> I wish I had become a victor >> Freudian slip right there right >> Freudian slip right there right >> Freudian slip right there right >> uh when you became a vicer a priest um >> uh when you became a vicer a priest um >> uh when you became a vicer a priest um >> what was the state of the church like >> what was the state of the church like >> what was the state of the church like when you were beginning your ministry

when you were beginning your ministry when you were beginning your ministry >> I came from a a a background that wasn't >> I came from a a a background that wasn't >> I came from a a a background that wasn't Christian. So, um my father was a a Christian. So, um my father was a a Christian. So, um my father was a a German Jew and a an agnostic. My mother German Jew and a an agnostic. My mother German Jew and a an agnostic. My mother was not a churchgoer. So, I didn't go to was not a churchgoer. So, I didn't go to was not a churchgoer. So, I didn't go to church at all until well, I didn't go church at all until well, I didn't go church at all until well, I didn't go voluntarily uh until I encountered Jesus voluntarily uh until I encountered Jesus voluntarily uh until I encountered Jesus at the age of 18 through reading the New at the age of 18 through reading the New at the age of 18 through reading the New Testament. And that was in 1974, Testament. And that was in 1974, Testament. And that was in 1974, so just over 50 years ago. And um I so just over 50 years ago. And um I so just over 50 years ago. And um I think that there there was a quite a lot think that there there was a quite a lot think that there there was a quite a lot of nominalism in the Church of England of nominalism in the Church of England of nominalism in the Church of England in the church in this country back then. in the church in this country back then. in the church in this country back then. Um uh and I think what's happened in the Um uh and I think what's happened in the Um uh and I think what's happened in the last 50 years is a lot of that has gone. last 50 years is a lot of that has gone. last 50 years is a lot of that has gone. So people no longer go to church because So people no longer go to church because So people no longer go to church because they feel they should. Quite the they feel they should. Quite the they feel they should. Quite the reverse. People are quite embarrassed reverse. People are quite embarrassed reverse. People are quite embarrassed about saying that they go to church. In about saying that they go to church. In about saying that they go to church. In fact, on Alpha, we find people lie about fact, on Alpha, we find people lie about fact, on Alpha, we find people lie about what they're doing on Wednesday evening. what they're doing on Wednesday evening. what they're doing on Wednesday evening. They say they're they're doing French They say they're they're doing French They say they're they're doing French lessons or they've taken up dancing uh lessons or they've taken up dancing uh lessons or they've taken up dancing uh because they don't want to tell their because they don't want to tell their because they don't want to tell their friends they're going to church. So, it friends they're going to church. So, it friends they're going to church. So, it has totally changed. But what it means has totally changed. But what it means has totally changed. But what it means is that the people who are coming to is that the people who are coming to is that the people who are coming to church come because they have a genuine church come because they have a genuine church come because they have a genuine faith that their faith is alive that faith that their faith is alive that faith that their faith is alive that they care passionately about Jesus and they care passionately about Jesus and they care passionately about Jesus and that's why they have the courage to that's why they have the courage to that's why they have the courage to enter a church door. So, and that's been enter a church door. So, and that's been enter a church door. So, and that's been growing uh the number of young people growing uh the number of young people growing uh the number of young people and we've seen it um on Alpha for many and we've seen it um on Alpha for many and we've seen it um on Alpha for many years. Um hundreds of young people

years. Um hundreds of young people years. Um hundreds of young people average age on Alfred at HTB. So, we're average age on Alfred at HTB. So, we're average age on Alfred at HTB. So, we're about 27 most of the guests age between about 27 most of the guests age between about 27 most of the guests age between 18 and and 35 um and hundreds of people 18 and and 35 um and hundreds of people 18 and and 35 um and hundreds of people coming. I we're now on our 104th alpha coming. I we're now on our 104th alpha coming. I we're now on our 104th alpha small group in a row, but I did 96 at small group in a row, but I did 96 at small group in a row, but I did 96 at HTB and we had hundreds of people each HTB and we had hundreds of people each HTB and we had hundreds of people each time, mainly young people coming to time, mainly young people coming to time, mainly young people coming to church. HTB has marked 184 churches and church. HTB has marked 184 churches and church. HTB has marked 184 churches and nearly all of those are seeing the same nearly all of those are seeing the same nearly all of those are seeing the same thing. They start with alpha big front thing. They start with alpha big front thing. They start with alpha big front door pe young people coming into church. door pe young people coming into church. door pe young people coming into church. So, we've been seeing it um and um Al So, we've been seeing it um and um Al So, we've been seeing it um and um Al Gordon and Steven Foster who are on this Gordon and Steven Foster who are on this Gordon and Steven Foster who are on this call have seen it particularly in their call have seen it particularly in their call have seen it particularly in their churches. they've seen hundreds and churches. they've seen hundreds and churches. they've seen hundreds and hundreds of people coming to faith uh hundreds of people coming to faith uh hundreds of people coming to faith uh young people their churches are packed young people their churches are packed young people their churches are packed with young people so we've seen it with young people so we've seen it with young people so we've seen it anecdotally but I think the evidence of anecdotally but I think the evidence of anecdotally but I think the evidence of the first time really the quiet revival the first time really the quiet revival the first time really the quiet revival is giving the statistical backup for is giving the statistical backup for is giving the statistical backup for that so it's as if the the number of the that so it's as if the the number of the that so it's as if the the number of the nominal Christians has gone has almost nominal Christians has gone has almost nominal Christians has gone has almost um come to an end that that it'll um come to an end that that it'll um come to an end that that it'll continue for a bit but there because continue for a bit but there because continue for a bit but there because there's still some of the older there's still some of the older there's still some of the older generation I think who who who go to generation I think who who who go to generation I think who who who go to church because it's the thing to do. Not church because it's the thing to do. Not church because it's the thing to do. Not many are left now who do that. So, uh many are left now who do that. So, uh many are left now who do that. So, uh the the people who are coming to church the the people who are coming to church the the people who are coming to church are coming because they love it. They are coming because they love it. They are coming because they love it. They tell their friends. They're excited tell their friends. They're excited tell their friends. They're excited about Jesus. And that is growing. And I about Jesus. And that is growing. And I about Jesus. And that is growing. And I think now we have statistical evidence think now we have statistical evidence think now we have statistical evidence that that is happening right across the that that is happening right across the that that is happening right across the country and actually around the world.

country and actually around the world. country and actually around the world. We're finding with Alpha the the numbers We're finding with Alpha the the numbers We're finding with Alpha the the numbers are up everywhere. I was in Germany last are up everywhere. I was in Germany last are up everywhere. I was in Germany last week and uh the numbers coming on alpha week and uh the numbers coming on alpha week and uh the numbers coming on alpha in Germany are up 65% this year and but in Germany are up 65% this year and but in Germany are up 65% this year and but we're finding that all over the world we're finding that all over the world we're finding that all over the world ever. I was with some people from ever. I was with some people from ever. I was with some people from Scotland. Their alpha course is by far Scotland. Their alpha course is by far Scotland. Their alpha course is by far the biggest. They've got a 100 people on the biggest. They've got a 100 people on the biggest. They've got a 100 people on their alpha course at a church that their alpha course at a church that their alpha course at a church that hasn't traditionally had that kind of hasn't traditionally had that kind of hasn't traditionally had that kind of numbers. So I think it's it's not just numbers. So I think it's it's not just numbers. So I think it's it's not just in England. It's it's uh I mean we've in England. It's it's uh I mean we've in England. It's it's uh I mean we've been in a in a lot of places recently. been in a in a lot of places recently. been in a in a lot of places recently. We've been in Japan, uh, Hong Kong, We've been in Japan, uh, Hong Kong, We've been in Japan, uh, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Prague, Germany. We're off, as Malaysia, Prague, Germany. We're off, as Malaysia, Prague, Germany. We're off, as you know, to Washington, Canada, then to you know, to Washington, Canada, then to you know, to Washington, Canada, then to Lagos. But everywhere we've seen, and Lagos. But everywhere we've seen, and Lagos. But everywhere we've seen, and that's just in the last few, everywhere that's just in the last few, everywhere that's just in the last few, everywhere we go, we see that there is evidence of we go, we see that there is evidence of we go, we see that there is evidence of a new um interest, new in I think young a new um interest, new in I think young a new um interest, new in I think young people have tried everything, you know, people have tried everything, you know, people have tried everything, you know, they've tried materialism. Um they they've tried materialism. Um they they've tried materialism. Um they thought if you had a Porsche and a uh thought if you had a Porsche and a uh thought if you had a Porsche and a uh you know a lot of money to flash around you know a lot of money to flash around you know a lot of money to flash around that would make you happy and they've that would make you happy and they've that would make you happy and they've learned that doesn't make you happy.

learned that doesn't make you happy. learned that doesn't make you happy. They've tried promiscuity and even that They've tried promiscuity and even that They've tried promiscuity and even that there's now uh reaction against that there's now uh reaction against that there's now uh reaction against that amongst young people. The next amongst young people. The next amongst young people. The next generation coming through um are far generation coming through um are far generation coming through um are far less promiscuous than than previous less promiscuous than than previous less promiscuous than than previous generations uh because they they they generations uh because they they they generations uh because they they they realize that's not the answer either. uh realize that's not the answer either. uh realize that's not the answer either. uh and they and then they're searching in and they and then they're searching in and they and then they're searching in spirituality and they're searching on a spirituality and they're searching on a spirituality and they're searching on a lot of different forms of spirituality. lot of different forms of spirituality. lot of different forms of spirituality. I think atheism's gone pretty much I think atheism's gone pretty much I think atheism's gone pretty much amongst young people. Um the evidence is amongst young people. Um the evidence is amongst young people. Um the evidence is it's gone down from 25% amongst it's gone down from 25% amongst it's gone down from 25% amongst generation Y to I think something like generation Y to I think something like generation Y to I think something like 20% amongst generation um uh X and 13% 20% amongst generation um uh X and 13% 20% amongst generation um uh X and 13% generation Z or zed. Um, so it's harved. generation Z or zed. Um, so it's harved. generation Z or zed. Um, so it's harved. Um, and we've seen that on Alpha. Uh, 10 Um, and we've seen that on Alpha. Uh, 10 Um, and we've seen that on Alpha. Uh, 10 years ago, people would always come years ago, people would always come years ago, people would always come spouting D, Richard Dawkins. Um, now spouting D, Richard Dawkins. Um, now spouting D, Richard Dawkins. Um, now you'd never get that. There's always an you'd never get that. There's always an you'd never get that. There's always an openness to spirituality. Now they may openness to spirituality. Now they may openness to spirituality. Now they may be searching in in different some of be searching in in different some of be searching in in different some of them harmless. Um, I I go cold water them harmless. Um, I I go cold water them harmless. Um, I I go cold water swimming and there are lots of people swimming and there are lots of people swimming and there are lots of people who are searching spiritually and they who are searching spiritually and they who are searching spiritually and they think that's one of the things they try think that's one of the things they try think that's one of the things they try and I think that's harmless. In fact, I and I think that's harmless. In fact, I and I think that's harmless. In fact, I think it's I want love it. But other think it's I want love it. But other think it's I want love it. But other other forms, you know, others are into other forms, you know, others are into other forms, you know, others are into yoga or whatever, but there's a yoga or whatever, but there's a yoga or whatever, but there's a spiritual search. And I think now people spiritual search. And I think now people spiritual search. And I think now people are beginning to to who've been brought are beginning to to who've been brought are beginning to to who've been brought up with no knowledge of Jesus. And I up with no knowledge of Jesus. And I up with no knowledge of Jesus. And I think people are beginning to say, well, think people are beginning to say, well, think people are beginning to say, well, maybe we should try Jesus. Um and u

maybe we should try Jesus. Um and u maybe we should try Jesus. Um and u people are coming into churches and Al people are coming into churches and Al people are coming into churches and Al and Steven will testify to this with and Steven will testify to this with and Steven will testify to this with kind of no background just saying I'm kind of no background just saying I'm kind of no background just saying I'm just coming you know young people just coming you know young people just coming you know young people walking into church and saying I'm just walking into church and saying I'm just walking into church and saying I'm just here because I want to try this. So I here because I want to try this. So I here because I want to try this. So I think that the statistical evidence that think that the statistical evidence that think that the statistical evidence that we're seeing only backs up what we're we're seeing only backs up what we're we're seeing only backs up what we're seeing anecdotally all over the country. seeing anecdotally all over the country. seeing anecdotally all over the country. >> Such an encouraging report. Alan Steven >> Such an encouraging report. Alan Steven >> Such an encouraging report. Alan Steven I'd love to know you know Nikki became a I'd love to know you know Nikki became a I'd love to know you know Nikki became a Christian in the 70s. You guys entered Christian in the 70s. You guys entered Christian in the 70s. You guys entered ministry in different decades, but I'd ministry in different decades, but I'd ministry in different decades, but I'd love to know what you're seeing in love to know what you're seeing in love to know what you're seeing in London and then at Oxford. So maybe Al, London and then at Oxford. So maybe Al, London and then at Oxford. So maybe Al, we can start with you and then then we can start with you and then then we can start with you and then then Stephen, I'd love to hear from you at Stephen, I'd love to hear from you at Stephen, I'd love to hear from you at Oxford as well because this this is a Oxford as well because this this is a Oxford as well because this this is a movement. And the other the other thing movement. And the other the other thing movement. And the other the other thing I'm interested in, you know, is did I'm interested in, you know, is did I'm interested in, you know, is did either of you see a low point? I would either of you see a low point? I would either of you see a low point? I would say in Canada what's happened is say in Canada what's happened is say in Canada what's happened is probably in the last decade. I started probably in the last decade. I started probably in the last decade. I started here 30 years ago in the '90s. There are here 30 years ago in the '90s. There are here 30 years ago in the '90s. There are all these little country churches with all these little country churches with all these little country churches with 10 people left, 30 people left, 40 10 people left, 30 people left, 40 10 people left, 30 people left, 40 people left. A lot of them became people left. A lot of them became people left. A lot of them became nonviable. It was kind of a scorched nonviable. It was kind of a scorched nonviable. It was kind of a scorched earth policy. Not many churches earth policy. Not many churches earth policy. Not many churches standing. And the two kinds of churches standing. And the two kinds of churches standing. And the two kinds of churches that are standing, Ly Shaller used to that are standing, Ly Shaller used to that are standing, Ly Shaller used to call it uh small churches are like cats.

call it uh small churches are like cats. call it uh small churches are like cats. They have nine lives and you can't kill They have nine lives and you can't kill They have nine lives and you can't kill them. So there's a few of those. And them. So there's a few of those. And them. So there's a few of those. And then um you know there's a few growing then um you know there's a few growing then um you know there's a few growing churches and a few stable churches, but churches and a few stable churches, but churches and a few stable churches, but it's a fraction of what it was when I it's a fraction of what it was when I it's a fraction of what it was when I was a kid. So I'm wondering what the was a kid. So I'm wondering what the was a kid. So I'm wondering what the landscape was like when you came along landscape was like when you came along landscape was like when you came along and then when was the low point before and then when was the low point before and then when was the low point before this revival in the UK and what did that this revival in the UK and what did that this revival in the UK and what did that feel like? Because there are people in feel like? Because there are people in feel like? Because there are people in America right now who are feeling like America right now who are feeling like America right now who are feeling like they're in the low point. they're in the low point. they're in the low point. >> Well, it's such a treat to be with you, >> Well, it's such a treat to be with you, >> Well, it's such a treat to be with you, Carrie. Thank you for having me. Um just Carrie. Thank you for having me. Um just Carrie. Thank you for having me. Um just delighted to to delighted to to delighted to to >> It's a delight to have you back. Thank >> It's a delight to have you back. Thank >> It's a delight to have you back. Thank you. you. you. I mean, Stephen Nikki will say it better I mean, Stephen Nikki will say it better I mean, Stephen Nikki will say it better than me, but I think the um, you know, than me, but I think the um, you know, than me, but I think the um, you know, I'm not a mathematician, but if you I'm not a mathematician, but if you I'm not a mathematician, but if you imagine two graphs, you know, one imagine two graphs, you know, one imagine two graphs, you know, one declining fast, declining fast, declining fast, the another axis, there's another line the another axis, there's another line the another axis, there's another line that's rising fast. And I think we're at that's rising fast. And I think we're at that's rising fast. And I think we're at the the crossover point. And I think, the the crossover point. And I think, the the crossover point. And I think, you know, I've had the privilege of you know, I've had the privilege of you know, I've had the privilege of growing, I wasn't raised with the faith. growing, I wasn't raised with the faith. growing, I wasn't raised with the faith. I became a Christian, the most unlikely I became a Christian, the most unlikely I became a Christian, the most unlikely person to become a Christian age just person to become a Christian age just person to become a Christian age just after my 18th birthday. Um and after my 18th birthday. Um and after my 18th birthday. Um and >> same thing as Nikki around 18.

>> same thing as Nikki around 18. >> same thing as Nikki around 18. >> Yeah. Wow. >> Yeah. Wow. >> Yeah. Wow. >> That's the age. >> That's the age. >> That's the age. >> The first church I walked into was HTV >> The first church I walked into was HTV >> The first church I walked into was HTV where Nikki and Pipper um pastored for where Nikki and Pipper um pastored for where Nikki and Pipper um pastored for many years. And many years. And many years. And >> what brought you into the church at 18? >> what brought you into the church at 18? >> what brought you into the church at 18? >> I I lived locally actually. So we >> I I lived locally actually. So we >> I I lived locally actually. So we wandered. It was the nearest church. So wandered. It was the nearest church. So wandered. It was the nearest church. So I just, you know, I I experienced Jesus I just, you know, I I experienced Jesus I just, you know, I I experienced Jesus on my own in my room. I I had an on my own in my room. I I had an on my own in my room. I I had an encounter with the Holy Spirit. And um encounter with the Holy Spirit. And um encounter with the Holy Spirit. And um my um one of my parents just said, you my um one of my parents just said, you my um one of my parents just said, you know, you better go to church. They we know, you better go to church. They we know, you better go to church. They we weren't Christians. So I turned over at weren't Christians. So I turned over at weren't Christians. So I turned over at HB and the first person I met was the HB and the first person I met was the HB and the first person I met was the the the previous vicer before Nikki, the the previous vicer before Nikki, the the previous vicer before Nikki, Sandy Miller, who asked me sort of two Sandy Miller, who asked me sort of two Sandy Miller, who asked me sort of two questions. He said, you know, have you questions. He said, you know, have you questions. He said, you know, have you been filled with the Holy Spirit? I been filled with the Holy Spirit? I been filled with the Holy Spirit? I said, I don't know. And so he prayed to said, I don't know. And so he prayed to said, I don't know. And so he prayed to me and I was filled with the Holy me and I was filled with the Holy me and I was filled with the Holy Spirit. Then he said, well, have you Spirit. Then he said, well, have you Spirit. Then he said, well, have you ever done Alpha? And actually, that's ever done Alpha? And actually, that's ever done Alpha? And actually, that's how I got involved in ministry. I was in how I got involved in ministry. I was in how I got involved in ministry. I was in Alpha. I got to know Nikki and Pipper. Alpha. I got to know Nikki and Pipper. Alpha. I got to know Nikki and Pipper. And I think ever since then, um, And I think ever since then, um, And I think ever since then, um, you know, have had this great desire you know, have had this great desire you know, have had this great desire people who don't know Jesus to know people who don't know Jesus to know people who don't know Jesus to know Jesus, to be filled with the Holy Jesus, to be filled with the Holy Jesus, to be filled with the Holy Spirit, their lives to be changed. So Spirit, their lives to be changed. So Spirit, their lives to be changed. So >> And what year was that that that >> And what year was that that that >> And what year was that that that happened? goodness, that was the ' 90s. happened? goodness, that was the ' 90s. happened? goodness, that was the ' 90s. So, mid 90s, 95. Yeah. Um, Nikki was a So, mid 90s, 95. Yeah. Um, Nikki was a So, mid 90s, 95. Yeah. Um, Nikki was a boy back in those days.

boy back in those days. boy back in those days. But, you know, I think I'm in ministry But, you know, I think I'm in ministry But, you know, I think I'm in ministry today because somebody prayed for me at today because somebody prayed for me at today because somebody prayed for me at the back of a church, welcomed me, got, the back of a church, welcomed me, got, the back of a church, welcomed me, got, you know, I met Nikki and Pipper and you know, I met Nikki and Pipper and you know, I met Nikki and Pipper and they encouraged me and Alpha was in its they encouraged me and Alpha was in its they encouraged me and Alpha was in its genesis in those days. But, um, I think genesis in those days. But, um, I think genesis in those days. But, um, I think we'll talk more about revival, but we'll talk more about revival, but we'll talk more about revival, but actually the formation of of disciplehip actually the formation of of disciplehip actually the formation of of disciplehip in the life of the believer is just like in the life of the believer is just like in the life of the believer is just like it doesn't ever go out of fashion. So it doesn't ever go out of fashion. So it doesn't ever go out of fashion. So what we're seeing in London definitely what we're seeing in London definitely what we're seeing in London definitely the crossing over of the graph if you the crossing over of the graph if you the crossing over of the graph if you hold that picture and I think we're I hold that picture and I think we're I hold that picture and I think we're I mean we planted a church out of HTB mean we planted a church out of HTB mean we planted a church out of HTB eventually they got rid of us they sent eventually they got rid of us they sent eventually they got rid of us they sent us east um seven eight years ago uh to a us east um seven eight years ago uh to a us east um seven eight years ago uh to a part of London where there weren't many part of London where there weren't many part of London where there weren't many churches that were kind of growing and churches that were kind of growing and churches that were kind of growing and um realistically that the the the data um realistically that the the the data um realistically that the the the data there was less than 1% of the population there was less than 1% of the population there was less than 1% of the population in our neighborhood in East London in our neighborhood in East London in our neighborhood in East London attended church parish Anglican church attended church parish Anglican church attended church parish Anglican church the traditional kind of church that you the traditional kind of church that you the traditional kind of church that you go to on a on a regular basis. So it was go to on a on a regular basis. So it was go to on a on a regular basis. So it was really the you know the the the water really the you know the the the water really the you know the the the water could not have been lower. The tide was could not have been lower. The tide was could not have been lower. The tide was at a record low at a record low at a record low >> and that was in the '9s 1%. >> and that was in the '9s 1%. >> and that was in the '9s 1%. >> Well no that was that was seven years >> Well no that was that was seven years >> Well no that was that was seven years ago. So ago. So ago. So >> seven years ago. Okay. Got it.

>> seven years ago. Okay. Got it. >> seven years ago. Okay. Got it. >> In the Anglican church where we are less >> In the Anglican church where we are less >> In the Anglican church where we are less than 1% attend their local parish church than 1% attend their local parish church than 1% attend their local parish church which is pretty you know pretty pretty which is pretty you know pretty pretty which is pretty you know pretty pretty low. Um and I think the reality is that low. Um and I think the reality is that low. Um and I think the reality is that that is is a sign of a hundredyear that is is a sign of a hundredyear that is is a sign of a hundredyear decline that's been going on. At the decline that's been going on. At the decline that's been going on. At the same time, there is an unbelievable same time, there is an unbelievable same time, there is an unbelievable spiritual hunger particularly among the spiritual hunger particularly among the spiritual hunger particularly among the young, but actually among all young, but actually among all young, but actually among all generations. I think it's probably some generations. I think it's probably some generations. I think it's probably some bit sociology maybe. You know, we're in bit sociology maybe. You know, we're in bit sociology maybe. You know, we're in a moment of history where there's huge a moment of history where there's huge a moment of history where there's huge change, there's geopolitical change, there's geopolitical change, there's geopolitical uncertainty, there's technological uncertainty, there's technological uncertainty, there's technological revolution, there's a question of what revolution, there's a question of what revolution, there's a question of what it means to be human in the age of an it means to be human in the age of an it means to be human in the age of an algorithm. But also, I think there's a algorithm. But also, I think there's a algorithm. But also, I think there's a there's a deep deep hunger for people to there's a deep deep hunger for people to there's a deep deep hunger for people to meet something that's real, for the soul meet something that's real, for the soul meet something that's real, for the soul to come alive. So, people are asking to come alive. So, people are asking to come alive. So, people are asking questions. people may have become less questions. people may have become less questions. people may have become less religious, but they're definitely not religious, but they're definitely not religious, but they're definitely not less spiritual. Um, and um, so, less spiritual. Um, and um, so, less spiritual. Um, and um, so, you know, as a pastor, as someone you know, as a pastor, as someone you know, as a pastor, as someone stepping into ministry, you know, I had stepping into ministry, you know, I had stepping into ministry, you know, I had great role models like Nikki and Pifer great role models like Nikki and Pifer great role models like Nikki and Pifer and Steven who I could look up to, but and Steven who I could look up to, but and Steven who I could look up to, but also I think, you know, in life, you also I think, you know, in life, you also I think, you know, in life, you always want to buy the stock when it's always want to buy the stock when it's always want to buy the stock when it's cheapest, right? You want to get in cheapest, right? You want to get in cheapest, right? You want to get in there at the beginning, right? And so, I there at the beginning, right? And so, I there at the beginning, right? And so, I feel, you know, what an adventure to be feel, you know, what an adventure to be feel, you know, what an adventure to be alive. If you're a pastor and listening alive. If you're a pastor and listening alive. If you're a pastor and listening to this, you think, well, there's less to this, you think, well, there's less to this, you think, well, there's less than 1% coming to my church in my than 1% coming to my church in my than 1% coming to my church in my neighborhood. What a time to be alive neighborhood. What a time to be alive neighborhood. What a time to be alive because God never leaves himself without because God never leaves himself without because God never leaves himself without a witness. And I'd much rather be alive a witness. And I'd much rather be alive a witness. And I'd much rather be alive in the maternity unit moment of the in the maternity unit moment of the in the maternity unit moment of the church than in the kind of the museum or church than in the kind of the museum or church than in the kind of the museum or or the graveyard shift. You know, I or the graveyard shift. You know, I or the graveyard shift. You know, I don't want to be managing Christendom. I don't want to be managing Christendom. I don't want to be managing Christendom. I want to be plundering hell to see people want to be plundering hell to see people want to be plundering hell to see people come to know Jesus. And that's where come to know Jesus. And that's where come to know Jesus. And that's where we've had that great training and we've had that great training and we've had that great training and framework. Seeing that happen on Alpha

framework. Seeing that happen on Alpha framework. Seeing that happen on Alpha around the world the last 20, 30 years around the world the last 20, 30 years around the world the last 20, 30 years of our lives, it's been an extraordinary of our lives, it's been an extraordinary of our lives, it's been an extraordinary privilege. So yeah, great time to be privilege. So yeah, great time to be privilege. So yeah, great time to be alive. But but I mean car if I mean Al's alive. But but I mean car if I mean Al's alive. But but I mean car if I mean Al's being very modest but but he went there being very modest but but he went there being very modest but but he went there was it se only seven years ago was it se only seven years ago was it se only seven years ago >> I don't know >> I don't know >> I don't know >> eight years maybe eight years ago Al >> eight years maybe eight years ago Al >> eight years maybe eight years ago Al went to a church that was very rundown I went to a church that was very rundown I went to a church that was very rundown I don't know what the maybe maximum 50 don't know what the maybe maximum 50 don't know what the maybe maximum 50 people in the congregation um and the people in the congregation um and the people in the congregation um and the church was pretty derelictked at 17 church was pretty derelictked at 17 church was pretty derelictked at 17 acres uh the land and um al what is And acres uh the land and um al what is And acres uh the land and um al what is And now you have six churches. Um, and at now you have six churches. Um, and at now you have six churches. Um, and at the the the main church is the largest the the the main church is the largest the the the main church is the largest parish church in the country. Originally parish church in the country. Originally parish church in the country. Originally held 2,300 people. And so coplay use it held 2,300 people. And so coplay use it held 2,300 people. And so coplay use it for concerts, different uh groups, but for concerts, different uh groups, but for concerts, different uh groups, but he has renovated it to this absolutely he has renovated it to this absolutely he has renovated it to this absolutely stunning building. Um, you he got the stunning building. Um, you he got the stunning building. Um, you he got the top who was the architect? Um, Al.

top who was the architect? Um, Al. top who was the architect? Um, Al. >> Oh, the lovely guy called John Porson. >> Oh, the lovely guy called John Porson. >> Oh, the lovely guy called John Porson. Yeah, the most phenomen prone to Yeah, the most phenomen prone to Yeah, the most phenomen prone to exaggeration. exaggeration. exaggeration. >> No, but it's I've been I've been there >> No, but it's I've been I've been there >> No, but it's I've been I've been there and it's it's is absolutely jam-packed and it's it's is absolutely jam-packed and it's it's is absolutely jam-packed with young people now. And not only with young people now. And not only with young people now. And not only that, but the bishop has given him I that, but the bishop has given him I that, but the bishop has given him I think six is it five other churches? How think six is it five other churches? How think six is it five other churches? How many churches? many churches? many churches? >> Uh, a few. Yeah. >> Uh, a few. Yeah. >> Uh, a few. Yeah. >> How many churches are? Is it six? >> How many churches are? Is it six? >> How many churches are? Is it six? >> Yeah, five maybe >> Yeah, five maybe >> Yeah, five maybe >> five other churches. So, there's six >> five other churches. So, there's six >> five other churches. So, there's six churches. And all of these churches are churches. And all of these churches are churches. And all of these churches are being rebuilt and filled with young being rebuilt and filled with young being rebuilt and filled with young people. And I mean, just a couple of people. And I mean, just a couple of people. And I mean, just a couple of weeks ago, he had an all night prayer weeks ago, he had an all night prayer weeks ago, he had an all night prayer meeting packed out with young people. meeting packed out with young people. meeting packed out with young people. Um, it's an absolutely phenomenal thing. Um, it's an absolutely phenomenal thing. Um, it's an absolutely phenomenal thing. And Alli is a real entrepreneur. He's And Alli is a real entrepreneur. He's And Alli is a real entrepreneur. He's also, you know, he's developed a a also, you know, he's developed a a also, you know, he's developed a a brewer. Um, you know, he's got honey, brewer. Um, you know, he's got honey, brewer. Um, you know, he's got honey, makes honey, makes um bread, all these makes honey, makes um bread, all these makes honey, makes um bread, all these things happening on. And it's just it's things happening on. And it's just it's things happening on. And it's just it's just a it's Have you been there, Carrie? just a it's Have you been there, Carrie? just a it's Have you been there, Carrie? Next Next Next >> I haven't yet, but the next time I'm >> I haven't yet, but the next time I'm >> I haven't yet, but the next time I'm doing a tour, doing a tour, doing a tour, >> honestly, uh it is it's something to be >> honestly, uh it is it's something to be >> honestly, uh it is it's something to be seen. You walk in and it's like so seen. You walk in and it's like so seen. You walk in and it's like so stunningly beautiful the whole place. Um stunningly beautiful the whole place. Um stunningly beautiful the whole place. Um it is the most phenomenal design. And it is the most phenomenal design. And it is the most phenomenal design. And then then then >> actually when I when I interviewed Al >> actually when I when I interviewed Al >> actually when I when I interviewed Al for the first time on the podcast, I for the first time on the podcast, I for the first time on the podcast, I went into some of those architectural went into some of those architectural went into some of those architectural digest magazines and saw the pictures, digest magazines and saw the pictures, digest magazines and saw the pictures, saw the story, saw the website. It's saw the story, saw the website. It's saw the story, saw the website. It's just stunning. It is absolutely which is just stunning. It is absolutely which is just stunning. It is absolutely which is why I think it's is it most weekends you why I think it's is it most weekends you why I think it's is it most weekends you have um somebody renting the place for a

have um somebody renting the place for a have um somebody renting the place for a for a concert or something because it is for a concert or something because it is for a concert or something because it is such a stunning venue but it's it's the such a stunning venue but it's it's the such a stunning venue but it's it's the atmosphere there the the sense of the atmosphere there the the sense of the atmosphere there the the sense of the Holy Spirit when you walk into that Holy Spirit when you walk into that Holy Spirit when you walk into that place and to see um uh they did that place and to see um uh they did that place and to see um uh they did that that they that event the gathering there that they that event the gathering there that they that event the gathering there it is something extraordinary and Al um it is something extraordinary and Al um it is something extraordinary and Al um has Al did the alpha film series. He was has Al did the alpha film series. He was has Al did the alpha film series. He was the one who produced the Alpha film the one who produced the Alpha film the one who produced the Alpha film series brilliantly 10 years ago and is series brilliantly 10 years ago and is series brilliantly 10 years ago and is going to do the new one. But um they've going to do the new one. But um they've going to do the new one. But um they've been running um Alpha hugely been running um Alpha hugely been running um Alpha hugely successfully there. It's I mean it is so successfully there. It's I mean it is so successfully there. It's I mean it is so exciting to see a church in that area of exciting to see a church in that area of exciting to see a church in that area of London which is very young and very London which is very young and very London which is very young and very cool. It's where all the artists go. Um cool. It's where all the artists go. Um cool. It's where all the artists go. Um to see it filled with young people to see it filled with young people to see it filled with young people worshiping Jesus. Uh and it's a total worshiping Jesus. Uh and it's a total worshiping Jesus. Uh and it's a total transformation in eight years. It's transformation in eight years. It's transformation in eight years. It's amazing achievement. amazing achievement. amazing achievement. >> That is a very short timeline to see >> That is a very short timeline to see >> That is a very short timeline to see >> that much progress. >> that much progress. >> that much progress. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, all right. I want to check in with >> So, all right. I want to check in with >> So, all right. I want to check in with Stephen. You're at Oxford. Um, Stephen. You're at Oxford. Um, Stephen. You're at Oxford. Um, historically, I mean, Christian and then historically, I mean, Christian and then historically, I mean, Christian and then very atheist and, um, kind of a a very atheist and, um, kind of a a very atheist and, um, kind of a a hotbed, if I've got my facts straight, hotbed, if I've got my facts straight, hotbed, if I've got my facts straight, of atheism as well for a season as well.

of atheism as well for a season as well. of atheism as well for a season as well. So, do you want to tell us a little bit So, do you want to tell us a little bit So, do you want to tell us a little bit about when you got into ministry, what about when you got into ministry, what about when you got into ministry, what it was like, and what you're seeing in it was like, and what you're seeing in it was like, and what you're seeing in Oxford right now? Oxford right now? Oxford right now? >> Thanks, Carrie. Great to be with you. >> Thanks, Carrie. Great to be with you. >> Thanks, Carrie. Great to be with you. Um, everything Nikki says about Al is Um, everything Nikki says about Al is Um, everything Nikki says about Al is absolutely true. absolutely true. absolutely true. >> And >> And >> And hold this out, Carrie, please. Steve, hold this out, Carrie, please. Steve, hold this out, Carrie, please. Steve, >> and um >> and um >> and um >> I'm losing losing control of this >> I'm losing losing control of this >> I'm losing losing control of this interview. interview. interview. >> I had I had the great privilege. So, I >> I had I had the great privilege. So, I >> I had I had the great privilege. So, I was a trial lawyer uh and then uh was a trial lawyer uh and then uh was a trial lawyer uh and then uh >> three lawyers on this call. That's >> three lawyers on this call. That's >> three lawyers on this call. That's fascinating. And so had the great fascinating. And so had the great fascinating. And so had the great privilege of being trained by both Nikki privilege of being trained by both Nikki privilege of being trained by both Nikki and by Al. So if you can imagine a and by Al. So if you can imagine a and by Al. So if you can imagine a better training combination of the better training combination of the better training combination of the globe, I can't. So they taught me globe, I can't. So they taught me globe, I can't. So they taught me everything I know. And so had this everything I know. And so had this everything I know. And so had this amazing uh privilege of seeing firsthand amazing uh privilege of seeing firsthand amazing uh privilege of seeing firsthand them stewarding a move of God and that them stewarding a move of God and that them stewarding a move of God and that just got into my bloodstream really. And just got into my bloodstream really. And just got into my bloodstream really. And I think it's interesting because what I think it's interesting because what I think it's interesting because what one of the senses I have about the one of the senses I have about the one of the senses I have about the season we're coming out of in the UK is season we're coming out of in the UK is season we're coming out of in the UK is that we've very much lived through what that we've very much lived through what that we've very much lived through what you might describe as a post-Christian you might describe as a post-Christian you might describe as a post-Christian context for a long time. I I would say context for a long time. I I would say context for a long time. I I would say to us pastors who visited for years, you to us pastors who visited for years, you to us pastors who visited for years, you know, you've got better buildings apart know, you've got better buildings apart know, you've got better buildings apart from our you've got better buildings, from our you've got better buildings, from our you've got better buildings, you've got better uh training programs, you've got better uh training programs, you've got better uh training programs, got better leaders, but we have more got better leaders, but we have more got better leaders, but we have more experience of living in a post-Christian experience of living in a post-Christian experience of living in a post-Christian context. That was almost it felt like context. That was almost it felt like context. That was almost it felt like all we had to offer because we've been all we had to offer because we've been all we had to offer because we've been in that context for a really long time.

in that context for a really long time. in that context for a really long time. And you'll know that in a post-Christian And you'll know that in a post-Christian And you'll know that in a post-Christian context, generally speaking, people are context, generally speaking, people are context, generally speaking, people are inoculated inoculated inoculated through the culture and through school through the culture and through school through the culture and through school and things like that. They're inoculated and things like that. They're inoculated and things like that. They're inoculated with enough of the gospel with enough of the gospel with enough of the gospel uh to immunize them against its power, uh to immunize them against its power, uh to immunize them against its power, but not with so much of the gospel that but not with so much of the gospel that but not with so much of the gospel that they're captivated by its beauty. And they're captivated by its beauty. And they're captivated by its beauty. And that's a post-Christian context. you get that's a post-Christian context. you get that's a post-Christian context. you get a lot of deconstruction, a lot of people a lot of deconstruction, a lot of people a lot of deconstruction, a lot of people leaving the church and the the faith leaving the church and the the faith leaving the church and the the faith doesn't grow through the generations. doesn't grow through the generations. doesn't grow through the generations. And so it can be heartbreaking for And so it can be heartbreaking for And so it can be heartbreaking for leaders. So if you're in a leaders. So if you're in a leaders. So if you're in a post-Christian context, you really have post-Christian context, you really have post-Christian context, you really have to guard your heart because it could be to guard your heart because it could be to guard your heart because it could be heartbreaking. But in a post-Christian heartbreaking. But in a post-Christian heartbreaking. But in a post-Christian context, you do see success stories. You context, you do see success stories. You context, you do see success stories. You see people who are leading amazing see people who are leading amazing see people who are leading amazing movements against the tide. Uh and I movements against the tide. Uh and I movements against the tide. Uh and I feel that was what we were privileged to feel that was what we were privileged to feel that was what we were privileged to witness. But generally speaking across witness. But generally speaking across witness. But generally speaking across the country, it can feel like the tide the country, it can feel like the tide the country, it can feel like the tide is going up. Uh so that's a is going up. Uh so that's a is going up. Uh so that's a post-Christian context. in a post-Christian context. in a post-Christian context. in a pre-Christian context or a pre-revival pre-Christian context or a pre-revival pre-Christian context or a pre-revival context, however you want to describe context, however you want to describe context, however you want to describe it, it's different. It's like fresh snow it, it's different. It's like fresh snow it, it's different. It's like fresh snow because the gospel has a natural because the gospel has a natural because the gospel has a natural virality. It's not a virus, but it has a virality. It's not a virus, but it has a virality. It's not a virus, but it has a natural virality. And in a pre-Christian natural virality. And in a pre-Christian natural virality. And in a pre-Christian context, uh people haven't been context, uh people haven't been context, uh people haven't been immunized against the power of the immunized against the power of the immunized against the power of the gospel. So, they're captivated when they gospel. So, they're captivated when they gospel. So, they're captivated when they hear about Jesus. They're fascinated by hear about Jesus. They're fascinated by hear about Jesus. They're fascinated by faith. You know, you're not you're not faith. You know, you're not you're not faith. You know, you're not you're not you're not trying to reconstruct you're not trying to reconstruct you're not trying to reconstruct something that someone else has something that someone else has something that someone else has deconstructed. It's all new. Acts is a deconstructed. It's all new. Acts is a deconstructed. It's all new. Acts is a pre-Christian context. And I think the pre-Christian context. And I think the pre-Christian context. And I think the context we're in now in the UK is much context we're in now in the UK is much context we're in now in the UK is much closer to something like Axe than it was closer to something like Axe than it was closer to something like Axe than it was to what we were facing in the '7s and to what we were facing in the '7s and to what we were facing in the '7s and 80s where you're dealing with this kind 80s where you're dealing with this kind 80s where you're dealing with this kind of people have inherited it. They don't of people have inherited it. They don't of people have inherited it. They don't think it's interesting. It's boring, think it's interesting. It's boring, think it's interesting. It's boring, irrelevant, untrue. Whereas now people irrelevant, untrue. Whereas now people irrelevant, untrue. Whereas now people don't have a grid. So when you introduce

don't have a grid. So when you introduce don't have a grid. So when you introduce them to Jesus, he sounds amazing. I them to Jesus, he sounds amazing. I them to Jesus, he sounds amazing. I mean, he just sounds fascinating. Like mean, he just sounds fascinating. Like mean, he just sounds fascinating. Like who's we had a young woman uh who who who's we had a young woman uh who who who's we had a young woman uh who who came to our church, never heard the name came to our church, never heard the name came to our church, never heard the name of Jesus. Someone gave her a Bible. She of Jesus. Someone gave her a Bible. She of Jesus. Someone gave her a Bible. She read about Jesus. She thought, "This guy read about Jesus. She thought, "This guy read about Jesus. She thought, "This guy sounds amazing." Started coming to sounds amazing." Started coming to sounds amazing." Started coming to church, came on Alpha. By fourth week, church, came on Alpha. By fourth week, church, came on Alpha. By fourth week, she's like, "I'd like to get baptized." she's like, "I'd like to get baptized." she's like, "I'd like to get baptized." She's become a key leader in our church. She's become a key leader in our church. She's become a key leader in our church. But she's gone from not even really But she's gone from not even really But she's gone from not even really knowing the name of Jesus to being a key knowing the name of Jesus to being a key knowing the name of Jesus to being a key leader in our church in a very short leader in our church in a very short leader in our church in a very short space of time. And so, I think there is space of time. And so, I think there is space of time. And so, I think there is something that happens in a something that happens in a something that happens in a pre-Christian context where uh things pre-Christian context where uh things pre-Christian context where uh things can go viral quite quickly. And actually can go viral quite quickly. And actually can go viral quite quickly. And actually churches, cities, culture can change churches, cities, culture can change churches, cities, culture can change quite quickly because the natural quite quickly because the natural quite quickly because the natural virality of the gospel bears out. And so virality of the gospel bears out. And so virality of the gospel bears out. And so we like our and um like lots of contexts we like our and um like lots of contexts we like our and um like lots of contexts in the UK are seeing what I would in the UK are seeing what I would in the UK are seeing what I would describe as like sudden surprising describe as like sudden surprising describe as like sudden surprising supernatural significant and sustained supernatural significant and sustained supernatural significant and sustained salvations. And salvations. And salvations. And >> among who is there a particular >> among who is there a particular >> among who is there a particular demographic? I mean Oxford is a demographic? I mean Oxford is a demographic? I mean Oxford is a university town. So what what are you university town. So what what are you university town. So what what are you seeing? Yeah, it's I I would say mainly seeing? Yeah, it's I I would say mainly seeing? Yeah, it's I I would say mainly uh kind of 18s uh to late 20s, so 18s, uh kind of 18s uh to late 20s, so 18s, uh kind of 18s uh to late 20s, so 18s, 25 say Gen Z, but also people in their 25 say Gen Z, but also people in their 25 say Gen Z, but also people in their early 30s and also other demographics as early 30s and also other demographics as early 30s and also other demographics as well. But but it would be mainly that well. But but it would be mainly that well. But but it would be mainly that rising generation which just has a huge rising generation which just has a huge rising generation which just has a huge openness. It feels like there's this openness. It feels like there's this openness. It feels like there's this openness to faith which that's what I've openness to faith which that's what I've openness to faith which that's what I've never seen before that people turn up to never seen before that people turn up to never seen before that people turn up to church unprompted.

church unprompted. church unprompted. >> And how recent is this Stephen? >> And how recent is this Stephen? >> And how recent is this Stephen? >> Like over the last few years? So >> Like over the last few years? So >> Like over the last few years? So >> really, so this is like postco last >> really, so this is like postco last >> really, so this is like postco last couple years because I mean, you know, couple years because I mean, you know, couple years because I mean, you know, if you think about it, we've had Justin if you think about it, we've had Justin if you think about it, we've had Justin Brierly on this podcast, too. He was Brierly on this podcast, too. He was Brierly on this podcast, too. He was talking about the decline of the new talking about the decline of the new talking about the decline of the new atheism and a decade ago, the new atheism and a decade ago, the new atheism and a decade ago, the new atheists were reigning supreme. Um, you atheists were reigning supreme. Um, you atheists were reigning supreme. Um, you had Dawkins and Hitchens and others, and had Dawkins and Hitchens and others, and had Dawkins and Hitchens and others, and that seemed to be the dominant dialogue that seemed to be the dominant dialogue that seemed to be the dominant dialogue particularly among educated people. particularly among educated people. particularly among educated people. What's happened to that in the context What's happened to that in the context What's happened to that in the context of higher learning? of higher learning? of higher learning? >> Yeah, I think it's interesting. I think >> Yeah, I think it's interesting. I think >> Yeah, I think it's interesting. I think there is a real thirst for truth. So, there is a real thirst for truth. So, there is a real thirst for truth. So, McKenzie did a study um pre- pandemic uh McKenzie did a study um pre- pandemic uh McKenzie did a study um pre- pandemic uh trying to analyze Gen Z and and they trying to analyze Gen Z and and they trying to analyze Gen Z and and they said what should we call this rising said what should we call this rising said what should we call this rising generation? Having a look at it, they generation? Having a look at it, they generation? Having a look at it, they said we we should probably call it true said we we should probably call it true said we we should probably call it true gen because it will be captivated by a gen because it will be captivated by a gen because it will be captivated by a search for truth. It will access truth search for truth. It will access truth search for truth. It will access truth in different ways uh through dialogue, in different ways uh through dialogue, in different ways uh through dialogue, through conversation, through narrative, through conversation, through narrative, through conversation, through narrative, through story, not necessarily through through story, not necessarily through through story, not necessarily through propositions, but it hasn't lost its propositions, but it hasn't lost its propositions, but it hasn't lost its hunger for the truth. And I think hunger for the truth. And I think hunger for the truth. And I think >> Pilate says, "What is truth?" to Jesus.

>> Pilate says, "What is truth?" to Jesus. >> Pilate says, "What is truth?" to Jesus. And the irony is he's looking at him. And the irony is he's looking at him. And the irony is he's looking at him. And so we have the truth. And so I think And so we have the truth. And so I think And so we have the truth. And so I think if if there's a generation that's really if if there's a generation that's really if if there's a generation that's really searching for truth and we don't have to searching for truth and we don't have to searching for truth and we don't have to I I don't think we have to be afraid of I I don't think we have to be afraid of I I don't think we have to be afraid of intellectual questions. And so the most intellectual questions. And so the most intellectual questions. And so the most common thing we're doing is inviting common thing we're doing is inviting common thing we're doing is inviting people an offer and giving people a people an offer and giving people a people an offer and giving people a Bible and saying look at the eyewitness Bible and saying look at the eyewitness Bible and saying look at the eyewitness evidence about Jesus for yourself and evidence about Jesus for yourself and evidence about Jesus for yourself and and make up your own mind and there's no and make up your own mind and there's no and make up your own mind and there's no pressure you know no one can say Jesus pressure you know no one can say Jesus pressure you know no one can say Jesus is Lord but by the Holy Spirit. So we is Lord but by the Holy Spirit. So we is Lord but by the Holy Spirit. So we don't the pressurees off us and we can don't the pressurees off us and we can don't the pressurees off us and we can kind of invite people to have a look. So kind of invite people to have a look. So kind of invite people to have a look. So I think that that has shifted uh that I think that that has shifted uh that I think that that has shifted uh that level of openness. We had a guy who came level of openness. We had a guy who came level of openness. We had a guy who came on, loads of people came on Sunday, um, on, loads of people came on Sunday, um, on, loads of people came on Sunday, um, and came to faith. But one, one of the and came to faith. But one, one of the and came to faith. But one, one of the guys I was chatting to after the guys I was chatting to after the guys I was chatting to after the service, 23 years old, first time ever service, 23 years old, first time ever service, 23 years old, first time ever in church, and I said to him, "How do in church, and I said to him, "How do in church, and I said to him, "How do you," he said, "I want to read a Bible. you," he said, "I want to read a Bible. you," he said, "I want to read a Bible. I'd love to try out for all this kind of I'd love to try out for all this kind of I'd love to try out for all this kind of stuff." So, we're chatting away. And stuff." So, we're chatting away. And stuff." So, we're chatting away. And then I said, "How did you come to be then I said, "How did you come to be then I said, "How did you come to be here?" And he said, "Oh, well, my friend here?" And he said, "Oh, well, my friend here?" And he said, "Oh, well, my friend brought me." And I turned to his friend brought me." And I turned to his friend brought me." And I turned to his friend and I said, "Oh, have you been coming a and I said, "Oh, have you been coming a and I said, "Oh, have you been coming a while?" And he said, "Yeah, quite a long while?" And he said, "Yeah, quite a long while?" And he said, "Yeah, quite a long time." And I said, "When did you start time." And I said, "When did you start time." And I said, "When did you start coming?" He said, "Five weeks ago." So coming?" He said, "Five weeks ago." So coming?" He said, "Five weeks ago." So that's the kind of that's an interesting that's the kind of that's an interesting that's the kind of that's an interesting thing that someone could come for five thing that someone could come for five thing that someone could come for five weeks and invite a friend and think he's weeks and invite a friend and think he's weeks and invite a friend and think he's kind of inviting him into kind of inviting him into kind of inviting him into >> a veteran. One of the things that I I >> a veteran. One of the things that I I >> a veteran. One of the things that I I was first in England to see this was first in England to see this was first in England to see this firsthand six years ago in 2019 and I firsthand six years ago in 2019 and I firsthand six years ago in 2019 and I spent some time at HTB and around London spent some time at HTB and around London spent some time at HTB and around London churches and then up in Peterborough and churches and then up in Peterborough and churches and then up in Peterborough and Cambridge. And one of the things that Cambridge. And one of the things that Cambridge. And one of the things that really really really struck me about the movement that God struck me about the movement that God struck me about the movement that God has brought through HTB, through Alpha,

has brought through HTB, through Alpha, has brought through HTB, through Alpha, and you're all HTB churches, all of that and you're all HTB churches, all of that and you're all HTB churches, all of that stock and and listeners are now deep stock and and listeners are now deep stock and and listeners are now deep enough in this podcast to hear it and enough in this podcast to hear it and enough in this podcast to hear it and see it firsthand. There's a there's a see it firsthand. There's a there's a see it firsthand. There's a there's a humility there. And I know it's very humility there. And I know it's very humility there. And I know it's very hard to get humble people to talk about hard to get humble people to talk about hard to get humble people to talk about humility. Um, but there's a humility humility. Um, but there's a humility humility. Um, but there's a humility there. There is a mutual difference as there. There is a mutual difference as there. There is a mutual difference as in Nikki's like, "Oh, Al," and Steven's in Nikki's like, "Oh, Al," and Steven's in Nikki's like, "Oh, Al," and Steven's like, "Oh, Al," and Al's like, "No, like, "Oh, Al," and Al's like, "No, like, "Oh, Al," and Al's like, "No, Nikki. No, Steven." And that is very Nikki. No, Steven." And that is very Nikki. No, Steven." And that is very characteristic and has been very characteristic and has been very characteristic and has been very characteristic of the move of God that's characteristic of the move of God that's characteristic of the move of God that's been going on for decades through HTB been going on for decades through HTB been going on for decades through HTB and through Alpha. And and through Alpha. And and through Alpha. And there's something beautiful about it. I there's something beautiful about it. I there's something beautiful about it. I don't know where the question is, but I don't know where the question is, but I don't know where the question is, but I think a lot of American, North American think a lot of American, North American think a lot of American, North American church leaders would be used to a more church leaders would be used to a more church leaders would be used to a more competitive thing. It's like, oh, I got competitive thing. It's like, oh, I got competitive thing. It's like, oh, I got to share the microphone with two other to share the microphone with two other to share the microphone with two other guys. How come I'm not on your social, guys. How come I'm not on your social, guys. How come I'm not on your social, you know, solo? Uh, well, actually, you know, solo? Uh, well, actually, you know, solo? Uh, well, actually, technically, my church is a little technically, my church is a little technically, my church is a little bigger or, you know, it's that kind of bigger or, you know, it's that kind of bigger or, you know, it's that kind of vibe. And I wonder if one of the vibe. And I wonder if one of the vibe. And I wonder if one of the reasons, and this is my theory, that God reasons, and this is my theory, that God reasons, and this is my theory, that God is blessing this so much and has been is blessing this so much and has been is blessing this so much and has been for years, and now we've got the for years, and now we've got the for years, and now we've got the crossing of the lines. I love that crossing of the lines. I love that crossing of the lines. I love that metaphor, Al, is is humility must have metaphor, Al, is is humility must have metaphor, Al, is is humility must have something to do with that. I mean, the something to do with that. I mean, the something to do with that. I mean, the Bible is so clear about that. And that Bible is so clear about that. And that Bible is so clear about that. And that is characteristic of Sandy, your is characteristic of Sandy, your is characteristic of Sandy, your predecessor. You can go deep, deep, deep predecessor. You can go deep, deep, deep predecessor. You can go deep, deep, deep into the system, backstage, on stage.

into the system, backstage, on stage. into the system, backstage, on stage. That's what you find. So, I knew you That's what you find. So, I knew you That's what you find. So, I knew you wouldn't say that, so I'm saying it. But wouldn't say that, so I'm saying it. But wouldn't say that, so I'm saying it. But what I want to know is how what I want to know is how what I want to know is how how do you keep that spirit? How do you how do you keep that spirit? How do you how do you keep that spirit? How do you make sure that an increase for Al make sure that an increase for Al make sure that an increase for Al doesn't feel like a decrease for HTB or doesn't feel like a decrease for HTB or doesn't feel like a decrease for HTB or that someone else's success doesn't feel that someone else's success doesn't feel that someone else's success doesn't feel like your loss? What what are you doing like your loss? What what are you doing like your loss? What what are you doing intentionally intentionally intentionally or perhaps unintentionally or perhaps unintentionally or perhaps unintentionally to to to make sure that that is the spirit that make sure that that is the spirit that make sure that that is the spirit that now lives among multiple generations and now lives among multiple generations and now lives among multiple generations and iterations of church leaders? iterations of church leaders? iterations of church leaders? Who wants to tackle that one? Who wants to tackle that one? Who wants to tackle that one? >> Nikki, that's one for you, I think. >> Nikki, that's one for you, I think. >> Nikki, that's one for you, I think. >> Definitely. >> Definitely. >> Definitely. Well, well, speaking for myself, um, Sir Well, well, speaking for myself, um, Sir Well, well, speaking for myself, um, Sir Winston Churchill uh said about the Winston Churchill uh said about the Winston Churchill uh said about the leader of the opposition, he was a very leader of the opposition, he was a very leader of the opposition, he was a very humble man with a lot to be humble humble man with a lot to be humble humble man with a lot to be humble about.

I'm speaking for myself. That sums it I'm speaking for myself. That sums it up. >> That self-deprecating look in the mirror >> That self-deprecating look in the mirror uh thing. uh thing. uh thing. Other other thoughts on that? I mean, is Other other thoughts on that? I mean, is Other other thoughts on that? I mean, is that something you notice or is that that something you notice or is that that something you notice or is that just in the water supply in the just in the water supply in the just in the water supply in the >> That's all you'll get from Nikki on >> That's all you'll get from Nikki on >> That's all you'll get from Nikki on this. this. this. >> Yes. I I knew it was going to be >> Yes. I I knew it was going to be >> Yes. I I knew it was going to be >> I mean, I was I was I was impressed you >> I mean, I was I was I was impressed you >> I mean, I was I was I was impressed you got it. got it. got it. I think I think I think I think it's true that we I think it's true that we I think it's true that we you know if and maybe it's the you know if and maybe it's the you know if and maybe it's the background of the culture we're in is background of the culture we're in is background of the culture we're in is that we signed up to follow Jesus not to that we signed up to follow Jesus not to that we signed up to follow Jesus not to do a career you know we're not here to do a career you know we're not here to do a career you know we're not here to be successful we're here to be try and be successful we're here to be try and be successful we're here to be try and be faithful and we're definitely not be faithful and we're definitely not be faithful and we're definitely not humble people I mean come and hang out humble people I mean come and hang out humble people I mean come and hang out with us I mean ask my wife she'll tell with us I mean ask my wife she'll tell with us I mean ask my wife she'll tell you I'm not humble ask my kids you know you I'm not humble ask my kids you know you I'm not humble ask my kids you know Um, I think we Um, I think we Um, I think we the I think one of the secrets that I've the I think one of the secrets that I've the I think one of the secrets that I've noticed, not secret, but one of the the noticed, not secret, but one of the the noticed, not secret, but one of the the attributes I've loved watching with attributes I've loved watching with attributes I've loved watching with Nikki and Pipper and Sandy and others, Nikki and Pipper and Sandy and others, Nikki and Pipper and Sandy and others, Archie Coats and Sam over the years is Archie Coats and Sam over the years is Archie Coats and Sam over the years is is a dependence on the Holy Spirit and a is a dependence on the Holy Spirit and a is a dependence on the Holy Spirit and a sensuality that it's not us who are sensuality that it's not us who are sensuality that it's not us who are going to do it. It's not we're not the going to do it. It's not we're not the going to do it. It's not we're not the superheroes. Um, it's Jesus. And I I superheroes. Um, it's Jesus. And I I superheroes. Um, it's Jesus. And I I think that's think that's think that's >> probably the the if there's anything >> probably the the if there's anything >> probably the the if there's anything that we should really think about here that we should really think about here that we should really think about here it's you know let's just make room for it's you know let's just make room for it's you know let's just make room for Jesus. I think on the unity point and on Jesus. I think on the unity point and on Jesus. I think on the unity point and on the competition point that's something the competition point that's something the competition point that's something definitely um that you know I think I

definitely um that you know I think I definitely um that you know I think I talked about this when I was on the talked about this when I was on the talked about this when I was on the podcast before about this joint prayer podcast before about this joint prayer podcast before about this joint prayer gathering we do and I know Steven's gathering we do and I know Steven's gathering we do and I know Steven's doing one tonight I think with churches doing one tonight I think with churches doing one tonight I think with churches across Oxford. this heart for unity and across Oxford. this heart for unity and across Oxford. this heart for unity and we learned that from Nikki, you know, to we learned that from Nikki, you know, to we learned that from Nikki, you know, to be honest with you that, you know, we've be honest with you that, you know, we've be honest with you that, you know, we've seen that with Alpha. Alpha runs across seen that with Alpha. Alpha runs across seen that with Alpha. Alpha runs across all denominations. all denominations. all denominations. >> Oh, all kinds of denominations, >> Oh, all kinds of denominations, >> Oh, all kinds of denominations, >> you know, but that's not by accident. >> you know, but that's not by accident. >> you know, but that's not by accident. It's something the Holy Spirit has has It's something the Holy Spirit has has It's something the Holy Spirit has has done and it's a unity. Pentecost is a is done and it's a unity. Pentecost is a is done and it's a unity. Pentecost is a is a is a great explosion of unity as well a is a great explosion of unity as well a is a great explosion of unity as well as of um of the spirit. So I think as of um of the spirit. So I think as of um of the spirit. So I think there's joy in partnership, there's joy there's joy in partnership, there's joy there's joy in partnership, there's joy in friendship, there's joy in in running in friendship, there's joy in in running in friendship, there's joy in in running with friends who are not going to, you with friends who are not going to, you with friends who are not going to, you know, going to help you understand that know, going to help you understand that know, going to help you understand that it's not about you and keep pointing to it's not about you and keep pointing to it's not about you and keep pointing to Jesus. Jesus. Jesus. >> And I think for me certainly, you know, >> And I think for me certainly, you know, >> And I think for me certainly, you know, we've learned just in the last seasons, we've learned just in the last seasons, we've learned just in the last seasons, you know, whatever the season we're you know, whatever the season we're you know, whatever the season we're living in the church in the UK, that you living in the church in the UK, that you living in the church in the UK, that you are going to see far more of the power are going to see far more of the power are going to see far more of the power of God at work and the and whatever you of God at work and the and whatever you of God at work and the and whatever you want to call it, the outpouring of the want to call it, the outpouring of the want to call it, the outpouring of the spirit when you operate in unity. you spirit when you operate in unity. you spirit when you operate in unity. you know, Psalm 133 um to paraphrase where know, Psalm 133 um to paraphrase where know, Psalm 133 um to paraphrase where brothers and sisters dwell in unity. God brothers and sisters dwell in unity. God brothers and sisters dwell in unity. God commands his blessing. And I think commands his blessing. And I think commands his blessing. And I think that's a spiritual law. If you want to that's a spiritual law. If you want to that's a spiritual law. If you want to see blessing, work backwards, then see blessing, work backwards, then see blessing, work backwards, then pursue unity. And you can't pursue unity pursue unity. And you can't pursue unity pursue unity. And you can't pursue unity if you're if you sort of if it's all if you're if you sort of if it's all if you're if you sort of if it's all about you. So I think the logic here is about you. So I think the logic here is about you. So I think the logic here is as pastors, we have to work together. We as pastors, we have to work together. We as pastors, we have to work together. We have to humble ourselves and pray to have to humble ourselves and pray to have to humble ourselves and pray to borrow the rule from Chronicles. But it borrow the rule from Chronicles. But it borrow the rule from Chronicles. But it does help growing up in an environment does help growing up in an environment does help growing up in an environment where um you know there's a there's an where um you know there's a there's an where um you know there's a there's an emphasis on Jesus and also a healthy emphasis on Jesus and also a healthy emphasis on Jesus and also a healthy amount of fun you know where you know if amount of fun you know where you know if amount of fun you know where you know if any of us kind of got a bit carried away

any of us kind of got a bit carried away any of us kind of got a bit carried away you know we people would sort of you you know we people would sort of you you know we people would sort of you know take the mickey you know whatever know take the mickey you know whatever know take the mickey you know whatever the Canadian equivalent phrase would be the Canadian equivalent phrase would be the Canadian equivalent phrase would be but you know we'd we'd sort of um but you know we'd we'd sort of um but you know we'd we'd sort of um forgive me if you're called Mickey forgive me if you're called Mickey forgive me if you're called Mickey please don't write in but you know we please don't write in but you know we please don't write in but you know we you know we'd sort of make sure that um you know we'd sort of make sure that um you know we'd sort of make sure that um that we didn't get too carried away with that we didn't get too carried away with that we didn't get too carried away with our egos because Nothing kills the our egos because Nothing kills the our egos because Nothing kills the ministry of the spirit when you're in ministry of the spirit when you're in ministry of the spirit when you're in the limelight. So, I think we want to the limelight. So, I think we want to the limelight. So, I think we want to avoid all of that. And whether that's avoid all of that. And whether that's avoid all of that. And whether that's humility or not, I I I think you're very humility or not, I I I think you're very humility or not, I I I think you're very kind to say that, but I don't think kind to say that, but I don't think kind to say that, but I don't think that's probably true. I think we're just that's probably true. I think we're just that's probably true. I think we're just trying to be um dependent on the Holy trying to be um dependent on the Holy trying to be um dependent on the Holy Spirit. Um but having said that, we have Spirit. Um but having said that, we have Spirit. Um but having said that, we have on this podcast one of the most humble on this podcast one of the most humble on this podcast one of the most humble people I've ever met for all the right people I've ever met for all the right people I've ever met for all the right reasons, Steve Foster. So, he'll have reasons, Steve Foster. So, he'll have reasons, Steve Foster. So, he'll have the answer. the answer. the answer. >> Yeah, there we are. >> Yeah, there we are. >> Yeah, there we are. >> Stephen, yeah. What's your take on that? >> Stephen, yeah. What's your take on that? >> Stephen, yeah. What's your take on that? I mean you you and Nikki uh both come I mean you you and Nikki uh both come I mean you you and Nikki uh both come from a law background too where uh not from a law background too where uh not from a law background too where uh not exactly known for humility of attorneys. exactly known for humility of attorneys. exactly known for humility of attorneys. Maybe barristers and solicitors in the Maybe barristers and solicitors in the Maybe barristers and solicitors in the UK are different. I don't know. But UK are different. I don't know. But UK are different. I don't know. But >> uh I have learned so much on this from >> uh I have learned so much on this from >> uh I have learned so much on this from Nikki and Al. Uh but I think the the one Nikki and Al. Uh but I think the the one Nikki and Al. Uh but I think the the one I I completely agree with everything our I I completely agree with everything our I I completely agree with everything our said and I would just add there's said and I would just add there's said and I would just add there's something that I think we've caught from something that I think we've caught from something that I think we've caught from Nikki and Sandy which is to have a Nikki and Sandy which is to have a Nikki and Sandy which is to have a vision vision vision which is far bigger so that it's which is far bigger so that it's which is far bigger so that it's impossible. I mean if your vi vision is impossible. I mean if your vi vision is impossible. I mean if your vi vision is to build a big church or build a big to build a big church or build a big to build a big church or build a big platform or build a big podcast then I platform or build a big podcast then I platform or build a big podcast then I guess you can do it on your own but guess you can do it on your own but guess you can do it on your own but that's not a very exciting vision. So, that's not a very exciting vision. So, that's not a very exciting vision. So, but that's not the vision Jesus gave us.

but that's not the vision Jesus gave us. but that's not the vision Jesus gave us. So, the vision Jesus gave us is so big So, the vision Jesus gave us is so big So, the vision Jesus gave us is so big that you're going to need loads of that you're going to need loads of that you're going to need loads of people and loads of churches and loads people and loads of churches and loads people and loads of churches and loads of leaders and loads of nations working of leaders and loads of nations working of leaders and loads of nations working together and loads of denominations and together and loads of denominations and together and loads of denominations and and so it's not really an option to make and so it's not really an option to make and so it's not really an option to make it all about you. What what a waste of a it all about you. What what a waste of a it all about you. What what a waste of a life to make it all about you and to try life to make it all about you and to try life to make it all about you and to try and make your name better. We the and make your name better. We the and make your name better. We the vision's too big for that. So I think vision's too big for that. So I think vision's too big for that. So I think it's it's probably a combination of re it's it's probably a combination of re it's it's probably a combination of re our own recognizing we are completely our own recognizing we are completely our own recognizing we are completely lost completely lost without the Holy lost completely lost without the Holy lost completely lost without the Holy Spirit and recognizing that we're never Spirit and recognizing that we're never Spirit and recognizing that we're never going to see a millimeter of what what going to see a millimeter of what what going to see a millimeter of what what what we'd love to see um in terms of what we'd love to see um in terms of what we'd love to see um in terms of Jesus name being glorified on our own. Jesus name being glorified on our own. Jesus name being glorified on our own. So that those are maybe two of the So that those are maybe two of the So that those are maybe two of the things that potentially drive it on the things that potentially drive it on the things that potentially drive it on the ground, which is we even in my city, we ground, which is we even in my city, we ground, which is we even in my city, we got a a joint prayer gathering tonight got a a joint prayer gathering tonight got a a joint prayer gathering tonight because we need each other and one because we need each other and one because we need each other and one church is never going to change a city. church is never going to change a city. church is never going to change a city. One ministry is never going to change a One ministry is never going to change a One ministry is never going to change a a a nation. And so um so that's that's a a nation. And so um so that's that's a a nation. And so um so that's that's probably what we've drawn in.

probably what we've drawn in. probably what we've drawn in. >> Uh St. All dates St. All dates where >> Uh St. All dates St. All dates where >> Uh St. All dates St. All dates where Steven is has always been a big church, Steven is has always been a big church, Steven is has always been a big church, but now it is absolutely heaving. And I but now it is absolutely heaving. And I but now it is absolutely heaving. And I think it's true to say that there are It think it's true to say that there are It think it's true to say that there are It was built a thousand years ago, wasn't was built a thousand years ago, wasn't was built a thousand years ago, wasn't it? it? it? >> How long ago was it built? >> How long ago was it built? >> How long ago was it built? >> Yeah. I'm worried about what you're >> Yeah. I'm worried about what you're >> Yeah. I'm worried about what you're going to say. going to say. going to say. >> No, but how was it? It was It was a >> No, but how was it? It was It was a >> No, but how was it? It was It was a thousand years ago. I think it was thousand years ago. I think it was thousand years ago. I think it was built. built. built. >> It's been downhill for a thousand years. >> It's been downhill for a thousand years. >> It's been downhill for a thousand years. But but I think we can confidently say But but I think we can confidently say But but I think we can confidently say there have never been as many people there have never been as many people there have never been as many people attending Snol dates in that thousand attending Snol dates in that thousand attending Snol dates in that thousand years as there are now because although years as there are now because although years as there are now because although the church is packed out they can't get the church is packed out they can't get the church is packed out they can't get everybody in the church and a thousand everybody in the church and a thousand everybody in the church and a thousand years ago they didn't have the years ago they didn't have the years ago they didn't have the technology to have a screen showing the technology to have a screen showing the technology to have a screen showing the service outside but I have seen pictures service outside but I have seen pictures service outside but I have seen pictures of people crowds outside watching the of people crowds outside watching the of people crowds outside watching the service because they can't get in and I service because they can't get in and I service because they can't get in and I happen to know that the vicar next door happen to know that the vicar next door happen to know that the vicar next door was extremely grateful for the number of was extremely grateful for the number of was extremely grateful for the number of people that turn up at his service people that turn up at his service people that turn up at his service because they can't get in to Steven's because they can't get in to Steven's because they can't get in to Steven's service. So, so that is that is evidence service. So, so that is that is evidence service. So, so that is that is evidence of of uh uh first of all evidence of the of of uh uh first of all evidence of the of of uh uh first of all evidence of the quiet revival happening because this is quiet revival happening because this is quiet revival happening because this is a student place a student the Oxford of a student place a student the Oxford of a student place a student the Oxford of course is is um uh the apotheiois of a course is is um uh the apotheiois of a course is is um uh the apotheiois of a student city um and um and also of one student city um and um and also of one student city um and um and also of one church benefiting from what's happening church benefiting from what's happening church benefiting from what's happening in another church and how we how we help in another church and how we how we help in another church and how we how we help each other rather than we're not in each other rather than we're not in each other rather than we're not in competition. where we're where there competition. where we're where there competition. where we're where there we're all focused on serving Jesus.

we're all focused on serving Jesus. we're all focused on serving Jesus. >> I think that's such a a great mantra. >> I think that's such a a great mantra. >> I think that's such a a great mantra. We're all there. We're not in We're all there. We're not in We're all there. We're not in competition. Another thing, and there competition. Another thing, and there competition. Another thing, and there was just a small hint of it so far in was just a small hint of it so far in was just a small hint of it so far in this conversation, but when we've been this conversation, but when we've been this conversation, but when we've been in person, when I've been, you know, in person, when I've been, you know, in person, when I've been, you know, there exploring and learning and taking there exploring and learning and taking there exploring and learning and taking notes, another thing that really amazes notes, another thing that really amazes notes, another thing that really amazes me is this has all been done a lot has me is this has all been done a lot has me is this has all been done a lot has been done through the Church of England. been done through the Church of England. been done through the Church of England. And in America right now, the biggest And in America right now, the biggest And in America right now, the biggest denomination is non-denominationalism, denomination is non-denominationalism, denomination is non-denominationalism, and it's growing, right? And a lot of and it's growing, right? And a lot of and it's growing, right? And a lot of people think, well, the answer to my people think, well, the answer to my people think, well, the answer to my problem is I need to leave the problem is I need to leave the problem is I need to leave the denomination. I need to secede or the denomination. I need to secede or the denomination. I need to secede or the bishop is the problem. And then you just bishop is the problem. And then you just bishop is the problem. And then you just drop very casually as though it was just drop very casually as though it was just drop very casually as though it was just happening on a Tuesday, Nikki. You just happening on a Tuesday, Nikki. You just happening on a Tuesday, Nikki. You just said, I believe the bishop has has has said, I believe the bishop has has has said, I believe the bishop has has has given Al five more churches that they given Al five more churches that they given Al five more churches that they can take over. And if people heard that, can take over. And if people heard that, can take over. And if people heard that, if church leaders in America heard that, if church leaders in America heard that, if church leaders in America heard that, it's like I feel like the bishop wants it's like I feel like the bishop wants it's like I feel like the bishop wants to take away five churches. And you to take away five churches. And you to take away five churches. And you know, I'm not I'm not criticizing know, I'm not I'm not criticizing know, I'm not I'm not criticizing bishops here. But I think one of the bishops here. But I think one of the bishops here. But I think one of the keys to renewal in America, Canada, and keys to renewal in America, Canada, and keys to renewal in America, Canada, and beyond.

beyond. beyond. >> It can't just be non-denominational. I'm >> It can't just be non-denominational. I'm >> It can't just be non-denominational. I'm a fan. I'm part of it. We're a fan. I'm part of it. We're a fan. I'm part of it. We're non-denominational church. But if there non-denominational church. But if there non-denominational church. But if there was also renewal within denominations, was also renewal within denominations, was also renewal within denominations, then we're going to multiply faster and then we're going to multiply faster and then we're going to multiply faster and we're going to see more people come to we're going to see more people come to we're going to see more people come to faith. We can't just have to create new faith. We can't just have to create new faith. We can't just have to create new vessels. So for those who are in vessels. So for those who are in vessels. So for those who are in denominations denominations denominations right now, what have been some of the right now, what have been some of the right now, what have been some of the keys to having this happen in a keys to having this happen in a keys to having this happen in a denominational context? Church of denominational context? Church of denominational context? Church of England, right? The king or previously England, right? The king or previously England, right? The king or previously the queen is the head of the Church of the queen is the head of the Church of the queen is the head of the Church of England. You have bishops, you have England. You have bishops, you have England. You have bishops, you have archbishops, the archbishops of of archbishops, the archbishops of of archbishops, the archbishops of of Canterbury. I mean, this is a storied Canterbury. I mean, this is a storied Canterbury. I mean, this is a storied tradition that goes back centuries to tradition that goes back centuries to tradition that goes back centuries to the Reformation. the Reformation. the Reformation. So how do you get the church on board So how do you get the church on board So how do you get the church on board when there is a renewal movement when there is a renewal movement when there is a renewal movement happening within the church through happening within the church through happening within the church through Alpha and Holy Trinity Brmpton and HTB Alpha and Holy Trinity Brmpton and HTB Alpha and Holy Trinity Brmpton and HTB churches? What are your thoughts on churches? What are your thoughts on churches? What are your thoughts on that? What have been some keys and think that? What have been some keys and think that? What have been some keys and think particular of the leaders who are saying particular of the leaders who are saying particular of the leaders who are saying my denomination feels dead. I don't know my denomination feels dead. I don't know my denomination feels dead. I don't know what to do. What's your advice for them?

what to do. What's your advice for them? what to do. What's your advice for them? >> The Church of England is part of the one >> The Church of England is part of the one >> The Church of England is part of the one holy Catholic and apostolic church. So holy Catholic and apostolic church. So holy Catholic and apostolic church. So we don't see ourselves as just the we don't see ourselves as just the we don't see ourselves as just the church of England. We are part of the church of England. We are part of the church of England. We are part of the Catholic Church. Catholic Church. Catholic Church. >> And the Catholic Church is with a small >> And the Catholic Church is with a small >> And the Catholic Church is with a small C is what has been believed C is what has been believed C is what has been believed by all people at all times throughout by all people at all times throughout by all people at all times throughout the world. And um and I would say that the world. And um and I would say that the world. And um and I would say that is that is the Cath the Roman Catholic is that is the Cath the Roman Catholic is that is the Cath the Roman Catholic Church, the Church of England, the Church, the Church of England, the Church, the Church of England, the Pentecostal churches. It's it's Pentecostal churches. It's it's Pentecostal churches. It's it's everyone. We are all part of the one everyone. We are all part of the one everyone. We are all part of the one holy, catholic and apostolic church. And holy, catholic and apostolic church. And holy, catholic and apostolic church. And um in terms of the church of England, a um in terms of the church of England, a um in terms of the church of England, a lot of blood was shed to build the lot of blood was shed to build the lot of blood was shed to build the churches that we have inherited like HTB churches that we have inherited like HTB churches that we have inherited like HTB which is a phenomenal um uh building in which is a phenomenal um uh building in which is a phenomenal um uh building in the center of London like in Manhattan. the center of London like in Manhattan. the center of London like in Manhattan. And we have actually s we have six And we have actually s we have six And we have actually s we have six church buildings in the center of London church buildings in the center of London church buildings in the center of London that would cost actually probably that would cost actually probably that would cost actually probably billions of dollars to buy but they are billions of dollars to buy but they are billions of dollars to buy but they are part of the rich inheritance that we part of the rich inheritance that we part of the rich inheritance that we have as being part of the church of have as being part of the church of have as being part of the church of England and we want every which we said England and we want every which we said England and we want every which we said to the bishop please don't sell any to the bishop please don't sell any to the bishop please don't sell any churches because we want to see every churches because we want to see every churches because we want to see every church filled with people worshiping church filled with people worshiping church filled with people worshiping Jesus. We don't want them to be sold as Jesus. We don't want them to be sold as Jesus. We don't want them to be sold as carpet warehouses or private residents carpet warehouses or private residents carpet warehouses or private residents or mosques or whatever. Please, rather

or mosques or whatever. Please, rather or mosques or whatever. Please, rather than selling them off, if you can't fill than selling them off, if you can't fill than selling them off, if you can't fill them, uh we will plant into them. And we them, uh we will plant into them. And we them, uh we will plant into them. And we want to see every church filled with want to see every church filled with want to see every church filled with people worshiping Jesus. Because if people worshiping Jesus. Because if people worshiping Jesus. Because if people walk past an empty church, they people walk past an empty church, they people walk past an empty church, they say, "This is the empty palace of a say, "This is the empty palace of a say, "This is the empty palace of a longforgotten king." And if they walk longforgotten king." And if they walk longforgotten king." And if they walk past a full church, they say, "Wow, past a full church, they say, "Wow, past a full church, they say, "Wow, what's going on there?" And people walk what's going on there?" And people walk what's going on there?" And people walk into church. I mean, I So, we go now, we into church. I mean, I So, we go now, we into church. I mean, I So, we go now, we don't go to HTB any longer because I'm don't go to HTB any longer because I'm don't go to HTB any longer because I'm I'm no longer the vicar there. Uh, but I I'm no longer the vicar there. Uh, but I I'm no longer the vicar there. Uh, but I we go to our local church, which is um we go to our local church, which is um we go to our local church, which is um uh William Wilberforce's old church, uh William Wilberforce's old church, uh William Wilberforce's old church, Holy Trinity Clapton Common, which is Holy Trinity Clapton Common, which is Holy Trinity Clapton Common, which is again a a plant that well, people came again a a plant that well, people came again a a plant that well, people came from JGO came from HTB with a group of from JGO came from HTB with a group of from JGO came from HTB with a group of people from HTB about 10 years ago. It people from HTB about 10 years ago. It people from HTB about 10 years ago. It is packed out and on um uh for their is packed out and on um uh for their is packed out and on um uh for their Christmas carol service they had 4,000 Christmas carol service they had 4,000 Christmas carol service they had 4,000 people outside the church. So they they people outside the church. So they they people outside the church. So they they didn't have it in they couldn't get didn't have it in they couldn't get didn't have it in they couldn't get can't get them in the church. They have can't get them in the church. They have can't get them in the church. They have it in the church garden. There were it in the church garden. There were it in the church garden. There were 4,000 people and they were queuing all 4,000 people and they were queuing all 4,000 people and they were queuing all the way across Clement Common all the the way across Clement Common all the the way across Clement Common all the way down the high street. Our neighbors way down the high street. Our neighbors way down the high street. Our neighbors came out of the tube and saw this came out of the tube and saw this came out of the tube and saw this massive great queue and they said, massive great queue and they said, massive great queue and they said, "What on earth is this queue?" And then "What on earth is this queue?" And then "What on earth is this queue?" And then they realized they were all queuing to they realized they were all queuing to they realized they were all queuing to get into a carol service at HTC. So they get into a carol service at HTC. So they get into a carol service at HTC. So they knew that we went there. They said what knew that we went there. They said what knew that we went there. They said what is going on at this church. So we said is going on at this church. So we said is going on at this church. So we said come and see. So they came the following come and see. So they came the following come and see. So they came the following Sunday. So there's something about Sunday. So there's something about Sunday. So there's something about seeing churches. Uh and these are this

seeing churches. Uh and these are this seeing churches. Uh and these are this church was you know Wilberforce church was you know Wilberforce church was you know Wilberforce worshiped in that William Wilberforce worshiped in that William Wilberforce worshiped in that William Wilberforce who was at the heart of the abolition of who was at the heart of the abolition of who was at the heart of the abolition of or one of the people at the heart of the or one of the people at the heart of the or one of the people at the heart of the abolition of slavery worshiped in that abolition of slavery worshiped in that abolition of slavery worshiped in that in that church. you this is so much uh in that church. you this is so much uh in that church. you this is so much uh blood was shed in order for these blood was shed in order for these blood was shed in order for these churches to be built. So much has churches to be built. So much has churches to be built. So much has happened and it would seem an awful pity happened and it would seem an awful pity happened and it would seem an awful pity for these churches simply to be sold off for these churches simply to be sold off for these churches simply to be sold off now. It would be wonderful if they could now. It would be wonderful if they could now. It would be wonderful if they could be used by the Pentecostal church or the be used by the Pentecostal church or the be used by the Pentecostal church or the Baptists. I'm all for that. But don't Baptists. I'm all for that. But don't Baptists. I'm all for that. But don't let them let's let's sell them off as let them let's let's sell them off as let them let's let's sell them off as carpet warehouses or mosques or or uh carpet warehouses or mosques or or uh carpet warehouses or mosques or or uh private residences because they were private residences because they were private residences because they were built for the glory of Jesus. And we built for the glory of Jesus. And we built for the glory of Jesus. And we want to see every church in this country want to see every church in this country want to see every church in this country filled with people worshiping Jesus. filled with people worshiping Jesus. filled with people worshiping Jesus. >> Stephen and Al, what have you seen about >> Stephen and Al, what have you seen about >> Stephen and Al, what have you seen about working within a historic denominational working within a historic denominational working within a historic denominational context? What are some tips for leaders context? What are some tips for leaders context? What are some tips for leaders who might be disgruntled or frustrated who might be disgruntled or frustrated who might be disgruntled or frustrated or what are some best practices that or what are some best practices that or what are some best practices that you've noticed in the you've noticed in the you've noticed in the >> I was brilliant at this.

>> I was brilliant at this. >> I was brilliant at this. >> Thanks, Stephen. Oh, um, >> Thanks, Stephen. Oh, um, >> Thanks, Stephen. Oh, um, family can be complicated, can't it? But family can be complicated, can't it? But family can be complicated, can't it? But it's it's worth fighting for. And in my it's it's worth fighting for. And in my it's it's worth fighting for. And in my experience, the blessings have experience, the blessings have experience, the blessings have outweighed the battles. Uh you know, we outweighed the battles. Uh you know, we outweighed the battles. Uh you know, we we we do well to heed the spiritual we we do well to heed the spiritual we we do well to heed the spiritual inheritance of the history of places. inheritance of the history of places. inheritance of the history of places. The the place where we are, you know, The the place where we are, you know, The the place where we are, you know, when you come and hang out, Carrie, I'll when you come and hang out, Carrie, I'll when you come and hang out, Carrie, I'll take you to the first church that was take you to the first church that was take you to the first church that was built on the site that was built in built on the site that was built in built on the site that was built in 1275. It's about to be 750 years old, 1275. It's about to be 750 years old, 1275. It's about to be 750 years old, that building. We still have the tower that building. We still have the tower that building. We still have the tower from that. Um, there's been people from that. Um, there's been people from that. Um, there's been people praying here for a long time. One of our praying here for a long time. One of our praying here for a long time. One of our churches in Shordich on the crossroads churches in Shordich on the crossroads churches in Shordich on the crossroads of the Roman road that began, it's of the Roman road that began, it's of the Roman road that began, it's called Roman Road, but the first Roman called Roman Road, but the first Roman called Roman Road, but the first Roman encampment in London before London was a encampment in London before London was a encampment in London before London was a city, it was a village, was on that city, it was a village, was on that city, it was a village, was on that spot. And so, it's very like in the spot. And so, it's very like in the spot. And so, it's very like in the first century AD, the first Christians first century AD, the first Christians first century AD, the first Christians in the country, their first place where in the country, their first place where in the country, their first place where they stopped, there would have been they stopped, there would have been they stopped, there would have been Roman soldiers, you know, rotated Roman soldiers, you know, rotated Roman soldiers, you know, rotated through from the far corners of the through from the far corners of the through from the far corners of the empire to to to England. They would have empire to to to England. They would have empire to to to England. They would have stopped off at that place and prayed in stopped off at that place and prayed in stopped off at that place and prayed in the name of Jesus. and the church is the name of Jesus. and the church is the name of Jesus. and the church is built on that site the legacy of these built on that site the legacy of these built on that site the legacy of these places. Now that's true in many of the places. Now that's true in many of the places. Now that's true in many of the churches across your listeners across churches across your listeners across churches across your listeners across the US where you know the history may the US where you know the history may the US where you know the history may not be as long but it's as important.

not be as long but it's as important. not be as long but it's as important. >> Yeah. And New England you've got revival >> Yeah. And New England you've got revival >> Yeah. And New England you've got revival history and and so I think there's a history and and so I think there's a history and and so I think there's a long muscle memory of faith in in places long muscle memory of faith in in places long muscle memory of faith in in places and in communities that we want to be and in communities that we want to be and in communities that we want to be mindful of. At the same time when we get mindful of. At the same time when we get mindful of. At the same time when we get to heaven I don't think there's going to to heaven I don't think there's going to to heaven I don't think there's going to be a cue for the Anglicans on one side be a cue for the Anglicans on one side be a cue for the Anglicans on one side the back the other side. You know, I I the back the other side. You know, I I the back the other side. You know, I I think at the end of the day, we all think at the end of the day, we all think at the end of the day, we all belong to Jesus. My one of my great belong to Jesus. My one of my great belong to Jesus. My one of my great heroes who ordained heroes who ordained heroes who ordained my when I was ordained at St. Paul's my when I was ordained at St. Paul's my when I was ordained at St. Paul's Cathedral, the bishop of London at the Cathedral, the bishop of London at the Cathedral, the bishop of London at the time, um, Bishop Richard used to talk time, um, Bishop Richard used to talk time, um, Bishop Richard used to talk about, well, we we don't we're not so about, well, we we don't we're not so about, well, we we don't we're not so bothered about the church of England. We bothered about the church of England. We bothered about the church of England. We are the church for England or the church are the church for England or the church are the church for England or the church in England. You it's we're the we're the in England. You it's we're the we're the in England. You it's we're the we're the we're the church, you know, it's it's we're the church, you know, it's it's we're the church, you know, it's it's not denominations, it's service. And you not denominations, it's service. And you not denominations, it's service. And you know if the church of England doesn't know if the church of England doesn't know if the church of England doesn't exist tomorrow the Lord's name will exist tomorrow the Lord's name will exist tomorrow the Lord's name will still be glorified. We'll do something still be glorified. We'll do something still be glorified. We'll do something else. We'll find another way of doing else. We'll find another way of doing else. We'll find another way of doing it. So I I think for me it. So I I think for me it. So I I think for me denominationalism is a dangerous thing denominationalism is a dangerous thing denominationalism is a dangerous thing but you know the historicity of the but you know the historicity of the but you know the historicity of the church is important and it's important church is important and it's important church is important and it's important that we we build you know everything we that we we build you know everything we that we we build you know everything we do and I think you know to your humility do and I think you know to your humility do and I think you know to your humility point again point again point again you know nothing I'm doing in hackne in you know nothing I'm doing in hackne in you know nothing I'm doing in hackne in in church is anything that I've done I'm in church is anything that I've done I'm in church is anything that I've done I'm reaping what others have sown for reaping what others have sown for reaping what others have sown for generations in prayer you know I pray generations in prayer you know I pray generations in prayer you know I pray walk around the area and there's a walk around the area and there's a walk around the area and there's a lovely water fountain that one of my lovely water fountain that one of my lovely water fountain that one of my predecessors about 300 years erected predecessors about 300 years erected predecessors about 300 years erected like kind of a public water fountain. It like kind of a public water fountain. It like kind of a public water fountain. It says erected by the um by the the vestri says erected by the um by the the vestri says erected by the um by the the vestri of the church and it has that wonderful

of the church and it has that wonderful of the church and it has that wonderful quote from Paul's letter um you know one quote from Paul's letter um you know one quote from Paul's letter um you know one man sws another man reaps but only god man sws another man reaps but only god man sws another man reaps but only god gives the increase and so all of us need gives the increase and so all of us need gives the increase and so all of us need to be mindful that that what we're to be mindful that that what we're to be mindful that that what we're reaping even when we talk about revival reaping even when we talk about revival reaping even when we talk about revival are probably prayers that you know are probably prayers that you know are probably prayers that you know prayed hundreds of years ago by faithful prayed hundreds of years ago by faithful prayed hundreds of years ago by faithful people who are crying out to God. So, people who are crying out to God. So, people who are crying out to God. So, um, denominationalism bad, faithfulness um, denominationalism bad, faithfulness um, denominationalism bad, faithfulness good. You know, the the places that we good. You know, the the places that we good. You know, the the places that we serve, we have the privilege of serving, serve, we have the privilege of serving, serve, we have the privilege of serving, good. Let's keep going. good. Let's keep going. good. Let's keep going. >> Stephen, anything to add to that? I >> Stephen, anything to add to that? I >> Stephen, anything to add to that? I think it's a really important lesson in think it's a really important lesson in think it's a really important lesson in the sense of historicity, too. I mean, the sense of historicity, too. I mean, the sense of historicity, too. I mean, any American or Canadian who's headed any American or Canadian who's headed any American or Canadian who's headed over to Europe, I mean, it can be over to Europe, I mean, it can be over to Europe, I mean, it can be anywhere in Europe and you're standing anywhere in Europe and you're standing anywhere in Europe and you're standing in thousand-y old buildings, 1500y old in thousand-y old buildings, 1500y old in thousand-y old buildings, 1500y old buildings, and it's just like, wow, I buildings, and it's just like, wow, I buildings, and it's just like, wow, I thought we were old cuz we started in thought we were old cuz we started in thought we were old cuz we started in the '9s, you know, the 1990s, right? the '9s, you know, the 1990s, right? the '9s, you know, the 1990s, right? Like history. I remember we were in a a Like history. I remember we were in a a Like history. I remember we were in a a hotel room in France and the chest was hotel room in France and the chest was hotel room in France and the chest was had 1772 on it or something is the year. had 1772 on it or something is the year. had 1772 on it or something is the year. Well, here that would be in a museum. Well, here that would be in a museum. Well, here that would be in a museum. There it was just put your luggage on There it was just put your luggage on There it was just put your luggage on it. It's fine. Um, right. So, Stephen, it. It's fine. Um, right. So, Stephen, it. It's fine. Um, right. So, Stephen, what what what else would you add to what what what else would you add to what what what else would you add to that? And I'm particularly interested, that? And I'm particularly interested, that? And I'm particularly interested, you know, as a lawyer, I'm sure you're you know, as a lawyer, I'm sure you're you know, as a lawyer, I'm sure you're uh thinking through all the legalities uh thinking through all the legalities uh thinking through all the legalities of what can be done and can't be done, of what can be done and can't be done, of what can be done and can't be done, but in terms of honoring a denomination but in terms of honoring a denomination but in terms of honoring a denomination and working within, what what are some and working within, what what are some and working within, what what are some tips that you would recommend? I'm tips that you would recommend? I'm tips that you would recommend? I'm really conscious of it here because I really conscious of it here because I really conscious of it here because I can see from my church where John Wesley can see from my church where John Wesley can see from my church where John Wesley and Charles Wesley were ordained and and and Charles Wesley were ordained and and and Charles Wesley were ordained and and they were immersed in the ecosystem of

they were immersed in the ecosystem of they were immersed in the ecosystem of our church and George Whitfield ran into our church and George Whitfield ran into our church and George Whitfield ran into our church to surrender his life to our church to surrender his life to our church to surrender his life to Jesus um when he decided he wanted to Jesus um when he decided he wanted to Jesus um when he decided he wanted to commit his life. So there's this kind of commit his life. So there's this kind of commit his life. So there's this kind of history of the the 1700s and this group history of the the 1700s and this group history of the the 1700s and this group of students who God used to trans of students who God used to trans of students who God used to trans >> such a good name drop. um but what's interesting is the church um but what's interesting is the church of England lost some of them and you of England lost some of them and you of England lost some of them and you know and in the providence of God all know and in the providence of God all know and in the providence of God all the all works for the good but these the all works for the good but these the all works for the good but these were amazing young dynamic leaders who were amazing young dynamic leaders who were amazing young dynamic leaders who were experiencing a powerful move of God were experiencing a powerful move of God were experiencing a powerful move of God and yet for whatever reason the and yet for whatever reason the and yet for whatever reason the institution wasn't able to hold the fire institution wasn't able to hold the fire institution wasn't able to hold the fire and so I think it's there's a lesson and so I think it's there's a lesson and so I think it's there's a lesson both ways there's a lesson for us as both ways there's a lesson for us as both ways there's a lesson for us as leaders in so far as it depends on you leaders in so far as it depends on you leaders in so far as it depends on you invest in the institution bless the invest in the institution bless the invest in the institution bless the instit institution build into the instit institution build into the instit institution build into the institution and there's probably a institution and there's probably a institution and there's probably a lesson for the institution which is how lesson for the institution which is how lesson for the institution which is how do you continue to form new wine skins do you continue to form new wine skins do you continue to form new wine skins into which the Lord can pour into his into which the Lord can pour into his into which the Lord can pour into his new wine and there's a warning you new wine and there's a warning you new wine and there's a warning you there's a warning that you know we don't there's a warning that you know we don't there's a warning that you know we don't we don't want to lose we don't we don't we don't want to lose we don't we don't we don't want to lose we don't we don't want God to pass us by and so if God's want God to pass us by and so if God's want God to pass us by and so if God's on the move institutions have to flex on the move institutions have to flex on the move institutions have to flex and there's a strength in institutions and there's a strength in institutions and there's a strength in institutions which is they're resilient that they which is they're resilient that they which is they're resilient that they they don't they're not born today and they don't they're not born today and they don't they're not born today and die tomorrow they last and the church of die tomorrow they last and the church of die tomorrow they last and the church of England's lasted a really long time and England's lasted a really long time and England's lasted a really long time and there's a risk which is that their there's a risk which is that their there's a risk which is that their strength and their rigidity means that strength and their rigidity means that strength and their rigidity means that sometimes they can be inflexible. So you sometimes they can be inflexible. So you sometimes they can be inflexible. So you kind of need both. You need you need and kind of need both. You need you need and kind of need both. You need you need and and we need in our generation I remember and we need in our generation I remember and we need in our generation I remember Tim Kell used to say after years of Tim Kell used to say after years of Tim Kell used to say after years of church planting he was praying towards church planting he was praying towards church planting he was praying towards the end of his life for a generation of

the end of his life for a generation of the end of his life for a generation of leaders with a vision for the leaders with a vision for the leaders with a vision for the institution who would be prepared to to institution who would be prepared to to institution who would be prepared to to invest their lives in the institution invest their lives in the institution invest their lives in the institution because without that things don't tend because without that things don't tend because without that things don't tend to survive through the generations. So to survive through the generations. So to survive through the generations. So whereas for our forefathers had a vision whereas for our forefathers had a vision whereas for our forefathers had a vision for building and investing in for building and investing in for building and investing in institutions that outlive them, that's institutions that outlive them, that's institutions that outlive them, that's something which maybe in our generation something which maybe in our generation something which maybe in our generation we don't always see the wisdom of. So I we don't always see the wisdom of. So I we don't always see the wisdom of. So I see I see kind of um but I think it's see I see kind of um but I think it's see I see kind of um but I think it's part part we have to do what we can do part part we have to do what we can do part part we have to do what we can do and pray that that the institution can and pray that that the institution can and pray that that the institution can do what it can do and that people are do what it can do and that people are do what it can do and that people are raised up who have a vision for the raised up who have a vision for the raised up who have a vision for the institutions. Well, another good institutions. Well, another good institutions. Well, another good example, too. I was just with Tim example, too. I was just with Tim example, too. I was just with Tim Keller's team earlier this week as we're Keller's team earlier this week as we're Keller's team earlier this week as we're recording this, and you know, Tim recording this, and you know, Tim recording this, and you know, Tim ministered through a denomination and ministered through a denomination and ministered through a denomination and helped bring renewal within that helped bring renewal within that helped bring renewal within that denomination. And having met with some denomination. And having met with some denomination. And having met with some PCA and other pastors, his DNA two years PCA and other pastors, his DNA two years PCA and other pastors, his DNA two years after his passing are all over the next after his passing are all over the next after his passing are all over the next generation of church leaders in generation of church leaders in generation of church leaders in Manhattan, New York City, which is super Manhattan, New York City, which is super Manhattan, New York City, which is super encouraging. I'd love to and I know it's encouraging. I'd love to and I know it's encouraging. I'd love to and I know it's not very British to be critical of not very British to be critical of not very British to be critical of others um but there is a others um but there is a others um but there is a there definitely Okay, let me let me there definitely Okay, let me let me there definitely Okay, let me let me back up a little bit. Like we've been back up a little bit. Like we've been back up a little bit. Like we've been following Alpha for almost 25 years. I following Alpha for almost 25 years. I following Alpha for almost 25 years. I think I started using it in V1 export I think I started using it in V1 export I think I started using it in V1 export I think Nikki back in the early 2000s or think Nikki back in the early 2000s or think Nikki back in the early 2000s or whatever that was. Uh and we saw God use whatever that was. Uh and we saw God use whatever that was. Uh and we saw God use it really powerfully. And so I recognize it really powerfully. And so I recognize it really powerfully. And so I recognize that the DNA that we've been talking that the DNA that we've been talking that the DNA that we've been talking about so far in far in this episode has about so far in far in this episode has about so far in far in this episode has been a pretty consistent been a pretty consistent been a pretty consistent approach that you've embodied, Sandy approach that you've embodied, Sandy approach that you've embodied, Sandy Miller's embodied, HTB Churches, Alpha's Miller's embodied, HTB Churches, Alpha's Miller's embodied, HTB Churches, Alpha's embodied, and I'm sure it's had

embodied, and I'm sure it's had embodied, and I'm sure it's had iterations, but like the DNA was there iterations, but like the DNA was there iterations, but like the DNA was there 25, 30 years ago for sure. So what what 25, 30 years ago for sure. So what what 25, 30 years ago for sure. So what what you're seeing isn't new, and it's been a you're seeing isn't new, and it's been a you're seeing isn't new, and it's been a long obedience in the same direction. At long obedience in the same direction. At long obedience in the same direction. At the same time in British culture, if the the same time in British culture, if the the same time in British culture, if the low point for the institutional church low point for the institutional church low point for the institutional church and the decline of Christianity was 7, and the decline of Christianity was 7, and the decline of Christianity was 7, eight years ago, you know, where 1% of eight years ago, you know, where 1% of eight years ago, you know, where 1% of the population was going, "Yeah, I go to the population was going, "Yeah, I go to the population was going, "Yeah, I go to church." Um, you probably saw the church church." Um, you probably saw the church church." Um, you probably saw the church as a whole make some mistakes, some as a whole make some mistakes, some as a whole make some mistakes, some approaches in trying to reach the approaches in trying to reach the approaches in trying to reach the culture that didn't bear out. Any culture that didn't bear out. Any culture that didn't bear out. Any thoughts? And I'm talking about lessons thoughts? And I'm talking about lessons thoughts? And I'm talking about lessons for global leaders, North American for global leaders, North American for global leaders, North American leaders, American leaders who might be leaders, American leaders who might be leaders, American leaders who might be in that place now who are saying, "Yeah, in that place now who are saying, "Yeah, in that place now who are saying, "Yeah, we're close to like 3% 5% of the we're close to like 3% 5% of the we're close to like 3% 5% of the population really legitimately attending population really legitimately attending population really legitimately attending church on Sunday morning." What are some church on Sunday morning." What are some church on Sunday morning." What are some mistakes that you would advise them to mistakes that you would advise them to mistakes that you would advise them to avoid having seen those mistakes perhaps avoid having seen those mistakes perhaps avoid having seen those mistakes perhaps made in the UK and not bear fruit? Who made in the UK and not bear fruit? Who made in the UK and not bear fruit? Who wants to go first? Al, can we start with wants to go first? Al, can we start with wants to go first? Al, can we start with you?

you? you? >> You can have a go, but I don't think >> You can have a go, but I don't think >> You can have a go, but I don't think I've got anything wise to say. Um I I I've got anything wise to say. Um I I I've got anything wise to say. Um I I was just thinking of my life. Um was just thinking of my life. Um was just thinking of my life. Um I think the things I look back at the I think the things I look back at the I think the things I look back at the very short, you know, experience I've very short, you know, experience I've very short, you know, experience I've had in ministry, the things built in had in ministry, the things built in had in ministry, the things built in prayer have been the most fruitful. prayer have been the most fruitful. prayer have been the most fruitful. >> So I think the mistakes that I've made >> So I think the mistakes that I've made >> So I think the mistakes that I've made and I'd probably, you know, I look at and I'd probably, you know, I look at and I'd probably, you know, I look at this in our ministry as a church this in our ministry as a church this in our ministry as a church community. Um I would definitely have community. Um I would definitely have community. Um I would definitely have had more time if I had to run my time had more time if I had to run my time had more time if I had to run my time again. I'd spend a lot more time in again. I'd spend a lot more time in again. I'd spend a lot more time in prayer and praying because it's so prayer and praying because it's so prayer and praying because it's so effective. Um, and I think, you know, effective. Um, and I think, you know, effective. Um, and I think, you know, you we're talking about quiet revival. I you we're talking about quiet revival. I you we're talking about quiet revival. I know you've been doing this series and know you've been doing this series and know you've been doing this series and it's amazing to to I think we mustn't it's amazing to to I think we mustn't it's amazing to to I think we mustn't get carried away because um, we haven't get carried away because um, we haven't get carried away because um, we haven't seen anything yet. I think that the seen anything yet. I think that the seen anything yet. I think that the danger is we can take our first the danger is we can take our first the danger is we can take our first the first fruits. first fruits. first fruits. >> I'm part French, Kerry. Um, my family um >> I'm part French, Kerry. Um, my family um >> I'm part French, Kerry. Um, my family um have a had a vineyard back in the day have a had a vineyard back in the day have a had a vineyard back in the day and we used to um, you know, make wine. and we used to um, you know, make wine. and we used to um, you know, make wine. You'd never you you wait. You don't wait You'd never you you wait. You don't wait You'd never you you wait. You don't wait for the first grape to be ready. You've for the first grape to be ready. You've for the first grape to be ready. You've got to you've got to keep being patient.

got to you've got to keep being patient. got to you've got to keep being patient. And prayer is is is And prayer is is is And prayer is is is Christian patience, isn't it? It's Christian patience, isn't it? It's Christian patience, isn't it? It's before God saying, "Lord, don't give up. before God saying, "Lord, don't give up. before God saying, "Lord, don't give up. Please don't pass us by." So, I think Please don't pass us by." So, I think Please don't pass us by." So, I think for me, um, in this season, there is a for me, um, in this season, there is a for me, um, in this season, there is a danger that we would get triumphant and danger that we would get triumphant and danger that we would get triumphant and carried away and pat ourselves on the carried away and pat ourselves on the carried away and pat ourselves on the back, say, "It's a quiet revival." I back, say, "It's a quiet revival." I back, say, "It's a quiet revival." I don't think we I think we've we've I don't think we I think we've we've I don't think we I think we've we've I think we're doing stretches on the side think we're doing stretches on the side think we're doing stretches on the side of the running track right now. I think of the running track right now. I think of the running track right now. I think um God hasn't even begun to do what he um God hasn't even begun to do what he um God hasn't even begun to do what he really longs to do in this nation, this really longs to do in this nation, this really longs to do in this nation, this generation around the world. Um and I generation around the world. Um and I generation around the world. Um and I think we mustn't settle for the first think we mustn't settle for the first think we mustn't settle for the first fruits because the the vine is heavy. Um fruits because the the vine is heavy. Um fruits because the the vine is heavy. Um and we must pray. So in my life, I can and we must pray. So in my life, I can and we must pray. So in my life, I can tell you about my mistakes. We haven't tell you about my mistakes. We haven't tell you about my mistakes. We haven't got enough time for that. You could do a got enough time for that. You could do a got enough time for that. You could do a whole series on on mistakes. Um but whole series on on mistakes. Um but whole series on on mistakes. Um but prayer, prayerlessness prayer, prayerlessness prayer, prayerlessness is one of the things that I've had to is one of the things that I've had to is one of the things that I've had to really do away with because I I I just really do away with because I I I just really do away with because I I I just look back at my life and think I was so look back at my life and think I was so look back at my life and think I was so busy I didn't pray. Uh, not that I'm busy I didn't pray. Uh, not that I'm busy I didn't pray. Uh, not that I'm very good at praying now, but definitely very good at praying now, but definitely very good at praying now, but definitely I've learned the strategic imperative of I've learned the strategic imperative of I've learned the strategic imperative of deliberately asking God for him to move deliberately asking God for him to move deliberately asking God for him to move and answer the big prayers to move the and answer the big prayers to move the and answer the big prayers to move the big mountains. You know, why should we big mountains. You know, why should we big mountains. You know, why should we not pray for a wholesale revival in your not pray for a wholesale revival in your not pray for a wholesale revival in your city, in your town, not just let's make city, in your town, not just let's make city, in your town, not just let's make it through the offering this Sunday or it through the offering this Sunday or it through the offering this Sunday or through an executive pastor or a bigger through an executive pastor or a bigger through an executive pastor or a bigger building, but Lord, would you bring us building, but Lord, would you bring us building, but Lord, would you bring us to our knees? Teach us how to pray.

to our knees? Teach us how to pray. to our knees? Teach us how to pray. humble us that we might seek your face humble us that we might seek your face humble us that we might seek your face so we can see a real sovereign move of so we can see a real sovereign move of so we can see a real sovereign move of God in our nation and that's what the God in our nation and that's what the God in our nation and that's what the world needs right so definitely yeah world needs right so definitely yeah world needs right so definitely yeah that's that's from my life but Nikki that's that's from my life but Nikki that's that's from my life but Nikki Nikki has a much much longer and better Nikki has a much much longer and better Nikki has a much much longer and better perspective on this perspective on this perspective on this >> Nikki what's your take mistakes that >> Nikki what's your take mistakes that >> Nikki what's your take mistakes that either you've made or you've seen others either you've made or you've seen others either you've made or you've seen others make make make >> emphasis on longer um uh I've made so many mistakes but you um uh I've made so many mistakes but you know I encountered Jesus at the age of know I encountered Jesus at the age of know I encountered Jesus at the age of 18. And the one thing I knew was that 18. And the one thing I knew was that 18. And the one thing I knew was that Jesus said, "I came that you might have Jesus said, "I came that you might have Jesus said, "I came that you might have life and have it to its full." And that life and have it to its full." And that life and have it to its full." And that if that was true, as I had experienced if that was true, as I had experienced if that was true, as I had experienced in my own life, everyone needed to know. in my own life, everyone needed to know. in my own life, everyone needed to know. And um therefore from the last 52 years And um therefore from the last 52 years And um therefore from the last 52 years I have been passionate about I have been passionate about I have been passionate about communicating that to people outside of communicating that to people outside of communicating that to people outside of the church. People like me who are not the church. People like me who are not the church. People like me who are not churchgoers, people like me who were churchgoers, people like me who were churchgoers, people like me who were atheists, agnostics, um you know just atheists, agnostics, um you know just atheists, agnostics, um you know just that didn't know Jesus. So I tried that didn't know Jesus. So I tried that didn't know Jesus. So I tried everything and I made so many mistakes.

everything and I made so many mistakes. everything and I made so many mistakes. Uh, I went on evangelism courses where Uh, I went on evangelism courses where Uh, I went on evangelism courses where they said, "Go out on the street with a they said, "Go out on the street with a they said, "Go out on the street with a questionnaire. Question one, what did questionnaire. Question one, what did questionnaire. Question one, what did you have for breakfast? Question 20, you have for breakfast? Question 20, you have for breakfast? Question 20, would you like to ask Jesus into your would you like to ask Jesus into your would you like to ask Jesus into your life?" life?" life?" I tried all these things. I tried I tried all these things. I tried I tried all these things. I tried knocking on doors. I had doors slammed knocking on doors. I had doors slammed knocking on doors. I had doors slammed in my face. I tried I tried dragging in my face. I tried I tried dragging in my face. I tried I tried dragging people along to stadiums or to, you people along to stadiums or to, you people along to stadiums or to, you know, to massive gatherings. and I just know, to massive gatherings. and I just know, to massive gatherings. and I just uh it just doesn't didn't seem to bear uh it just doesn't didn't seem to bear uh it just doesn't didn't seem to bear fruit. So I stumbled on alpha which fruit. So I stumbled on alpha which fruit. So I stumbled on alpha which because I'm not a natural evangelist. because I'm not a natural evangelist. because I'm not a natural evangelist. I'm not the sort of person I mean some I'm not the sort of person I mean some I'm not the sort of person I mean some people are um about this guy you know if people are um about this guy you know if people are um about this guy you know if he's standing at the bus stop and the he's standing at the bus stop and the he's standing at the bus stop and the bus is late he turns that into a bus is late he turns that into a bus is late he turns that into a conversation about the second coming of conversation about the second coming of conversation about the second coming of Jesus. It's like it's like some people Jesus. It's like it's like some people Jesus. It's like it's like some people are like that but I'm not. But what I are like that but I'm not. But what I are like that but I'm not. But what I can do is make friends. I can sit around can do is make friends. I can sit around can do is make friends. I can sit around like last I was last night at an alpha like last I was last night at an alpha like last I was last night at an alpha group at uh Holy Trinity Clap and group at uh Holy Trinity Clap and group at uh Holy Trinity Clap and Common. I'm just a helper in an alpha Common. I'm just a helper in an alpha Common. I'm just a helper in an alpha group in a small group and I sat there group in a small group and I sat there group in a small group and I sat there with eight other people and we made with eight other people and we made with eight other people and we made friends. We just chatted. You know, friends. We just chatted. You know, friends. We just chatted. You know, there's a young guy who's just turned there's a young guy who's just turned there's a young guy who's just turned up. He's he's a photographer. He's up. He's he's a photographer. He's up. He's he's a photographer. He's probably I think he's 22.

probably I think he's 22. probably I think he's 22. He's a boxer. He's got his third fight He's a boxer. He's got his third fight He's a boxer. He's got his third fight on Saturday. Uh he's very cool. He's on Saturday. Uh he's very cool. He's on Saturday. Uh he's very cool. He's very nice, but he's, you know, new to very nice, but he's, you know, new to very nice, but he's, you know, new to new to all of this and he's asking new to all of this and he's asking new to all of this and he's asking questions. And there's, you know, questions. And there's, you know, questions. And there's, you know, another guy who's a just charming guy another guy who's a just charming guy another guy who's a just charming guy getting married. Um young guy searching getting married. Um young guy searching getting married. Um young guy searching and we just sat around. We had supper and we just sat around. We had supper and we just sat around. We had supper together. Um and then we we w we watched together. Um and then we we w we watched together. Um and then we we w we watched a video. I'm embarrassed to say we a video. I'm embarrassed to say we a video. I'm embarrassed to say we watched, you know, I I haven't seen the watched, you know, I I haven't seen the watched, you know, I I haven't seen the Alpha videos, although they've been out Alpha videos, although they've been out Alpha videos, although they've been out for 10 years. Um, but now because I used for 10 years. Um, but now because I used for 10 years. Um, but now because I used to give the talks, but now I'm at um at to give the talks, but now I'm at um at to give the talks, but now I'm at um at HTC, they're doing it. I'm watching the HTC, they're doing it. I'm watching the HTC, they're doing it. I'm watching the video and Al has produced these videos video and Al has produced these videos video and Al has produced these videos brilliantly except for my bits. They are brilliantly except for my bits. They are brilliantly except for my bits. They are brilliant. But I watched it because brilliant. But I watched it because brilliant. But I watched it because we're refilming it in September and I we're refilming it in September and I we're refilming it in September and I watched it with great interest. What do watched it with great interest. What do watched it with great interest. What do we need to do differently this time? But we need to do differently this time? But we need to do differently this time? But we watched and then we talked about we watched and then we talked about we watched and then we talked about prayer and people told you know it was prayer and people told you know it was prayer and people told you know it was just such fun. This person told so uh just such fun. This person told so uh just such fun. This person told so uh someone uh said you know has anybody had someone uh said you know has anybody had someone uh said you know has anybody had any any answers to prayer and um uh and any any answers to prayer and um uh and any any answers to prayer and um uh and people tell their stories about what people tell their stories about what people tell their stories about what answers to prayer they'd had. Uh, and answers to prayer they'd had. Uh, and answers to prayer they'd had. Uh, and then this person said, um, I I had this then this person said, um, I I had this then this person said, um, I I had this prayer. She said, um, uh, she said, I prayer. She said, um, uh, she said, I prayer. She said, um, uh, she said, I had this when I was at university. She's had this when I was at university. She's had this when I was at university. She's just left university. Said, when I was just left university. Said, when I was just left university. Said, when I was at university, I had a boyfriend, and he at university, I had a boyfriend, and he at university, I had a boyfriend, and he was an atheist, and, um, uh, we, she

was an atheist, and, um, uh, we, she was an atheist, and, um, uh, we, she said, I went to this place that sold said, I went to this place that sold said, I went to this place that sold cinnamon buns, and they'd always run out cinnamon buns, and they'd always run out cinnamon buns, and they'd always run out by 9:00 in the evening. So, and it was by 9:00 in the evening. So, and it was by 9:00 in the evening. So, and it was 9:30 or whatever, so I knew they'd be 9:30 or whatever, so I knew they'd be 9:30 or whatever, so I knew they'd be out. So I prayed. He said, "Pray does out. So I prayed. He said, "Pray does out. So I prayed. He said, "Pray does the car." I said, "Pray, Lord, that I'll the car." I said, "Pray, Lord, that I'll the car." I said, "Pray, Lord, that I'll be able to get a cinnamon bun." So she be able to get a cinnamon bun." So she be able to get a cinnamon bun." So she arrives at the place and um and they arrives at the place and um and they arrives at the place and um and they said, "No, no, we've sold out of cinn said, "No, no, we've sold out of cinn said, "No, no, we've sold out of cinn cinnamon buns." cinnamon buns." cinnamon buns." >> And then this woman comes from the back >> And then this woman comes from the back >> And then this woman comes from the back and said, "I've just discovered that and said, "I've just discovered that and said, "I've just discovered that we've failed to empty the package. Uh we've failed to empty the package. Uh we've failed to empty the package. Uh and there is actually one cinnamon bun and there is actually one cinnamon bun and there is actually one cinnamon bun left." and and the atheist boyfriend left." and and the atheist boyfriend left." and and the atheist boyfriend said, "I don't believe it." It's an said, "I don't believe it." It's an said, "I don't believe it." It's an incredible answer to prayer and he came incredible answer to prayer and he came incredible answer to prayer and he came and did alpha and did became a Christian and did alpha and did became a Christian and did alpha and did became a Christian as a result. And you think, I mean, as a result. And you think, I mean, as a result. And you think, I mean, these are hilarious, you know, it's just these are hilarious, you know, it's just these are hilarious, you know, it's just you, everyone laughs, you have fun and you, everyone laughs, you have fun and you, everyone laughs, you have fun and but at the same time, people go, "Oh, but at the same time, people go, "Oh, but at the same time, people go, "Oh, well, maybe there is a god." And it's well, maybe there is a god." And it's well, maybe there is a god." And it's just fun. It's just so what I learned is just fun. It's just so what I learned is just fun. It's just so what I learned is this is something I can do. I've tried this is something I can do. I've tried this is something I can do. I've tried I've made so many mistakes. I've tried I've made so many mistakes. I've tried I've made so many mistakes. I've tried all these different ways of evangelism all these different ways of evangelism all these different ways of evangelism that don't work for me. But someone like that don't work for me. But someone like that don't work for me. But someone like me who who's not a I'm an introvert and me who who's not a I'm an introvert and me who who's not a I'm an introvert and I'm not but I but in a small group I'm I'm not but I but in a small group I'm I'm not but I but in a small group I'm perfectly happy. I I'm not good in perfectly happy. I I'm not good in perfectly happy. I I'm not good in crowds but I'm in a small group with crowds but I'm in a small group with crowds but I'm in a small group with just a limited number of people having just a limited number of people having just a limited number of people having chats over supper um talking about chats over supper um talking about chats over supper um talking about things that are real to to people. Last

things that are real to to people. Last things that are real to to people. Last week somebody said um I really struggled week somebody said um I really struggled week somebody said um I really struggled because my 15-year-old brother died because my 15-year-old brother died because my 15-year-old brother died suddenly. You know, he had just suddenly. You know, he had just suddenly. You know, he had just literally he died suddenly and I find it literally he died suddenly and I find it literally he died suddenly and I find it really hard. Um and then you everyone's really hard. Um and then you everyone's really hard. Um and then you everyone's like loves this person. You understand like loves this person. You understand like loves this person. You understand this person and everybody came back last this person and everybody came back last this person and everybody came back last week. Everyone was there. That was my week. Everyone was there. That was my week. Everyone was there. That was my prayer. I just pray Lord I know you prayer. I just pray Lord I know you prayer. I just pray Lord I know you answer prayer. Please would you bring answer prayer. Please would you bring answer prayer. Please would you bring everybody back? And there was one person everybody back? And there was one person everybody back? And there was one person who said they weren't coming back and who said they weren't coming back and who said they weren't coming back and she came. Uh the flight was that she was she came. Uh the flight was that she was she came. Uh the flight was that she was meant to be meeting was delayed and she meant to be meeting was delayed and she meant to be meeting was delayed and she was able to be there and we everyone was was able to be there and we everyone was was able to be there and we everyone was there and we had the group jelled. It there and we had the group jelled. It there and we had the group jelled. It was it's week five and the group jelled was it's week five and the group jelled was it's week five and the group jelled and you just think there's so many and you just think there's so many and you just think there's so many things I can't do but I can do this. And things I can't do but I can do this. And things I can't do but I can do this. And I think there are loads of people who I think there are loads of people who I think there are loads of people who are f 35 million people have done alpha are f 35 million people have done alpha are f 35 million people have done alpha now. And it it just seems it seems to now. And it it just seems it seems to now. And it it just seems it seems to work in every context. work in every context. work in every context. >> That's a country. 35 million. >> That's a country. 35 million. >> That's a country. 35 million. >> Yeah. In every country in the world. And >> Yeah. In every country in the world. And >> Yeah. In every country in the world. And it just seems to be a very natural way it just seems to be a very natural way it just seems to be a very natural way of introducing people to Jesus.

of introducing people to Jesus. of introducing people to Jesus. >> Stephen, how about you? Mistakes you've >> Stephen, how about you? Mistakes you've >> Stephen, how about you? Mistakes you've seen, mistakes you've made that you seen, mistakes you've made that you seen, mistakes you've made that you would say, "Yeah, don't try this. This would say, "Yeah, don't try this. This would say, "Yeah, don't try this. This is this is better." is this is better." is this is better." >> I've made so many mistakes. That is a >> I've made so many mistakes. That is a >> I've made so many mistakes. That is a whole another podcast I think Carrie. Um whole another podcast I think Carrie. Um whole another podcast I think Carrie. Um just I could go on for days. Uh I think just I could go on for days. Uh I think just I could go on for days. Uh I think I think when you're in a in a I think when you're in a in a I think when you're in a in a post-Christian context maybe it's post-Christian context maybe it's post-Christian context maybe it's important to keep your heart really soft important to keep your heart really soft important to keep your heart really soft because leaders get their hearts broken because leaders get their hearts broken because leaders get their hearts broken a lot um in post-Christian context a lot um in post-Christian context a lot um in post-Christian context because uh it can be quite challenging because uh it can be quite challenging because uh it can be quite challenging and deconstruction and things like that. and deconstruction and things like that. and deconstruction and things like that. I think the other temptation which which I think the other temptation which which I think the other temptation which which probably everyone feels from time to probably everyone feels from time to probably everyone feels from time to time is time is time is may maybe I need to change this message may maybe I need to change this message may maybe I need to change this message a bit. maybe I need to dilute the gospel a bit. maybe I need to dilute the gospel a bit. maybe I need to dilute the gospel or water it down a bit. And you know, or water it down a bit. And you know, or water it down a bit. And you know, when you're in that context where it when you're in that context where it when you're in that context where it just feels like the tide's going out and just feels like the tide's going out and just feels like the tide's going out and you're trying to try new things. And I I you're trying to try new things. And I I you're trying to try new things. And I I think I think we'd all say that actually think I think we'd all say that actually think I think we'd all say that actually where we are now with this wave of where we are now with this wave of where we are now with this wave of people coming to church, people don't people coming to church, people don't people coming to church, people don't want kind of watered down juice. They want kind of watered down juice. They want kind of watered down juice. They just they want they want really strong just they want they want really strong just they want they want really strong and they don't want as uh Tom Holland and they don't want as uh Tom Holland and they don't want as uh Tom Holland the historian said people don't want the historian said people don't want the historian said people don't want kind of half fat milk they want full fat kind of half fat milk they want full fat kind of half fat milk they want full fat milk. say he he said he's he's got a bit milk. say he he said he's he's got a bit milk. say he he said he's he's got a bit of a profile in the UK and he he talked of a profile in the UK and he he talked of a profile in the UK and he he talked he says don't spare the weird stuff you he says don't spare the weird stuff you he says don't spare the weird stuff you know we want the people want the the know we want the people want the the know we want the people want the the full gospel and so I think that full gospel and so I think that full gospel and so I think that >> yeah Tom Holland the author of Dominion >> yeah Tom Holland the author of Dominion >> yeah Tom Holland the author of Dominion many other books and and Nikki you had many other books and and Nikki you had many other books and and Nikki you had him at leadership conference in 2024 it him at leadership conference in 2024 it him at leadership conference in 2024 it was powerful was powerful was powerful >> not not Tom Holland the actor

>> not not Tom Holland the actor >> not not Tom Holland the actor >> right right not succession different Tom >> right right not succession different Tom >> right right not succession different Tom Holland Holland Holland >> he's also very profound >> he's also very profound >> he's also very profound >> he may reach out Carrie so just >> he may reach out Carrie so just >> he may reach out Carrie so just >> that's Right. Well, that's all right. >> that's Right. Well, that's all right. >> that's Right. Well, that's all right. Well, we we'll take we'll take more Well, we we'll take we'll take more Well, we we'll take we'll take more guests on the show. That's fine. guests on the show. That's fine. guests on the show. That's fine. >> No, that's a really good word. So >> No, that's a really good word. So >> No, that's a really good word. So holding holding on actually the power is holding holding on actually the power is holding holding on actually the power is in the gospel and and and and Jesus is in the gospel and and and and Jesus is in the gospel and and and and Jesus is the person and and that's who we can the person and and that's who we can the person and and that's who we can introduce people to encounter and if introduce people to encounter and if introduce people to encounter and if they really see I think having they really see I think having they really see I think having conviction if people really see Jesus as conviction if people really see Jesus as conviction if people really see Jesus as he is the authentic Jesus they are going he is the authentic Jesus they are going he is the authentic Jesus they are going to be captivated by him to be captivated by him to be captivated by him >> and um yeah >> and um yeah >> and um yeah >> the data is astonishing I mean I read >> the data is astonishing I mean I read >> the data is astonishing I mean I read through the whole report we'll link to through the whole report we'll link to through the whole report we'll link to it in the show notes but I mean I'm just it in the show notes but I mean I'm just it in the show notes but I mean I'm just on a high level. You've seen male Gen Z on a high level. You've seen male Gen Z on a high level. You've seen male Gen Z church attendance in 2018 was about 4% church attendance in 2018 was about 4% church attendance in 2018 was about 4% of the population. It's now something of the population. It's now something of the population. It's now something like 21%. like 21%. like 21%. Men are at the center of this revival. Men are at the center of this revival. Men are at the center of this revival. Not that women are being let out, but Not that women are being let out, but Not that women are being let out, but historically it would have been, oh, the historically it would have been, oh, the historically it would have been, oh, the woman comes and then here's my woman comes and then here's my woman comes and then here's my boyfriend, here's my husband and doesn't boyfriend, here's my husband and doesn't boyfriend, here's my husband and doesn't want to be here. Seeing a reversal in want to be here. Seeing a reversal in want to be here. Seeing a reversal in that. Um, we're seeing that men who are that. Um, we're seeing that men who are that. Um, we're seeing that men who are part of the church feel three times more part of the church feel three times more part of the church feel three times more like they belong and they're not like they belong and they're not like they belong and they're not isolated and they're not lonely. That isolated and they're not lonely. That isolated and they're not lonely. That they found genuine community. This is they found genuine community. This is they found genuine community. This is not just, yeah, I'm sitting there not just, yeah, I'm sitting there not just, yeah, I'm sitting there downloading a message and moving on with downloading a message and moving on with downloading a message and moving on with my day. They're having dinner. They're my day. They're having dinner. They're my day. They're having dinner. They're connecting. They're building community.

connecting. They're building community. connecting. They're building community. Um, you know, the the scripture reading Um, you know, the the scripture reading Um, you know, the the scripture reading is going through the roof. Um, Bible is going through the roof. Um, Bible is going through the roof. Um, Bible sales are up. It's just, you know, and sales are up. It's just, you know, and sales are up. It's just, you know, and these are, and I think you've phrased these are, and I think you've phrased these are, and I think you've phrased that really well, Allan. You said that that really well, Allan. You said that that really well, Allan. You said that last time you were on the podcast, too. last time you were on the podcast, too. last time you were on the podcast, too. And John Tyson would agree and others And John Tyson would agree and others And John Tyson would agree and others would agree. This is pre-revival. This would agree. This is pre-revival. This would agree. This is pre-revival. This is this is the first fruits. This is not is this is the first fruits. This is not is this is the first fruits. This is not the harvest. But I guess, and I don't the harvest. But I guess, and I don't the harvest. But I guess, and I don't know, you know, that there's a know, you know, that there's a know, you know, that there's a quantifiable answer to this, but I guess quantifiable answer to this, but I guess quantifiable answer to this, but I guess the question is why? Why are we seeing the question is why? Why are we seeing the question is why? Why are we seeing this? Why men? Why this? Why men? Why this? Why men? Why are they leading? Why 20somes? We we are they leading? Why 20somes? We we are they leading? Why 20somes? We we touched on it a little bit at the touched on it a little bit at the touched on it a little bit at the beginning, but I just like to explore beginning, but I just like to explore beginning, but I just like to explore that before we wrap up. Um, what what that before we wrap up. Um, what what that before we wrap up. Um, what what are the dynamics and if you could trace are the dynamics and if you could trace are the dynamics and if you could trace out what the Holy Spirit is doing and out what the Holy Spirit is doing and out what the Holy Spirit is doing and why the audience seems so receptive why the audience seems so receptive why the audience seems so receptive right now, what are your thoughts or right now, what are your thoughts or right now, what are your thoughts or theories? theories? theories? Stephen, we'll start with you. Stephen, we'll start with you. Stephen, we'll start with you. >> Yeah, I I think there's probably uh a >> Yeah, I I think there's probably uh a >> Yeah, I I think there's probably uh a whole load of things going on. Uh I I do whole load of things going on. Uh I I do whole load of things going on. Uh I I do I do think part of it is the providence I do think part of it is the providence I do think part of it is the providence and sovereignty of God that he he's and sovereignty of God that he he's and sovereignty of God that he he's doing what he wants to do. And uh that doing what he wants to do. And uh that doing what he wants to do. And uh that and there's also uh it seems to me and there's also uh it seems to me and there's also uh it seems to me there's two interesting things going on there's two interesting things going on there's two interesting things going on in the rising generation. There's an in the rising generation. There's an in the rising generation. There's an openness to faith amongst those outside openness to faith amongst those outside openness to faith amongst those outside the church. Uh so secular narratives are the church. Uh so secular narratives are the church. Uh so secular narratives are failing. The the things that used to failing. The the things that used to failing. The the things that used to promise aren't quite working and those promise aren't quite working and those promise aren't quite working and those those struts have been stripped away.

those struts have been stripped away. those struts have been stripped away. there's a huge openness amongst rising there's a huge openness amongst rising there's a huge openness amongst rising generation which is meeting uh a real generation which is meeting uh a real generation which is meeting uh a real consecration consecration consecration within those in that generation within within those in that generation within within those in that generation within the church. So there's I have never seen the church. So there's I have never seen the church. So there's I have never seen uh the the desire for consecration uh the the desire for consecration uh the the desire for consecration within kind of 18 to 25s that we're within kind of 18 to 25s that we're within kind of 18 to 25s that we're seeing now. seeing now. seeing now. >> What does that mean desire for >> What does that mean desire for >> What does that mean desire for consecration consecration consecration >> like like our our students and young >> like like our our students and young >> like like our our students and young adults praying through the night uh adults praying through the night uh adults praying through the night uh without asking anyone or telling anyone? without asking anyone or telling anyone? without asking anyone or telling anyone? I didn't even hear I didn't even hear I didn't even hear I didn't even hear I didn't even hear I didn't even hear about it for a month. And then someone about it for a month. And then someone about it for a month. And then someone said to me, do you know they're praying said to me, do you know they're praying said to me, do you know they're praying all night? And I was like, "All right, all night? And I was like, "All right, all night? And I was like, "All right, how do they get into the building and how do they get into the building and how do they get into the building and and so it's that that stuff they've been and so it's that that stuff they've been and so it's that that stuff they've been doing that for for a couple years and doing that for for a couple years and doing that for for a couple years and it's like they're just praying and it's like they're just praying and it's like they're just praying and desperate to see going out on the desperate to see going out on the desperate to see going out on the streets, you know, finishing student streets, you know, finishing student streets, you know, finishing student night, not stopping there. Right, we're night, not stopping there. Right, we're night, not stopping there. Right, we're going to go out onto the streets now. We going to go out onto the streets now. We going to go out onto the streets now. We want to we want to talk to people about want to we want to talk to people about want to we want to talk to people about Jesus." uh invitation you know someone Jesus." uh invitation you know someone Jesus." uh invitation you know someone someone said to me u they had invited 10 someone said to me u they had invited 10 someone said to me u they had invited 10 f 11 friends to alpha and and it's quite f 11 friends to alpha and and it's quite f 11 friends to alpha and and it's quite an achievement to have 11 friends an achievement to have 11 friends an achievement to have 11 friends >> yes yes it is today it is yeah >> yes yes it is today it is yeah >> yes yes it is today it is yeah >> and this she invited and they all came >> and this she invited and they all came >> and this she invited and they all came they all came you know it's like it's they all came you know it's like it's they all came you know it's like it's just this so there's this desire of just this so there's this desire of just this so there's this desire of consecration and this boldness because consecration and this boldness because consecration and this boldness because of that because of their love for Jesus of that because of their love for Jesus of that because of their love for Jesus this boldness and invitation to have this boldness and invitation to have this boldness and invitation to have real openness meets uh open real real openness meets uh open real real openness meets uh open real boldness of invitation and that kind of boldness of invitation and that kind of boldness of invitation and that kind of simultaneous combination creates a simultaneous combination creates a simultaneous combination creates a spontaneous combustion. Uh so that that spontaneous combustion. Uh so that that spontaneous combustion. Uh so that that is happening sovereignty of God um and

is happening sovereignty of God um and is happening sovereignty of God um and and and and so that's really exciting to and and and so that's really exciting to and and and so that's really exciting to see and and then there is something see and and then there is something see and and then there is something around hunger for for scripture uh so around hunger for for scripture uh so around hunger for for scripture uh so people being really just open to come people being really just open to come people being really just open to come into church. I think there's something into church. I think there's something into church. I think there's something supernatural happening. We're seeing supernatural happening. We're seeing supernatural happening. We're seeing more people come to church having had more people come to church having had more people come to church having had dreams and visions. Uh so they haven't dreams and visions. Uh so they haven't dreams and visions. Uh so they haven't even been invited by anyone to church. even been invited by anyone to church. even been invited by anyone to church. They've had a dream about Jesus. And so They've had a dream about Jesus. And so They've had a dream about Jesus. And so they turn up at church saying, "I've had they turn up at church saying, "I've had they turn up at church saying, "I've had a dream." And a dream." And a dream." And >> John Tyson's seeing that in New York >> John Tyson's seeing that in New York >> John Tyson's seeing that in New York City, too. City, too. City, too. >> Yeah. Just but happening. It's really >> Yeah. Just but happening. It's really >> Yeah. Just but happening. It's really common now for someone to come to church common now for someone to come to church common now for someone to come to church and say, "I had a dream and that's why and say, "I had a dream and that's why and say, "I had a dream and that's why I'm here." Or, "I've decided to turn up I'm here." Or, "I've decided to turn up I'm here." Or, "I've decided to turn up and no one's invited them. I just and no one's invited them. I just and no one's invited them. I just thought I needed to come to church." And thought I needed to come to church." And thought I needed to come to church." And so even without invitation, it feels so even without invitation, it feels so even without invitation, it feels like the Holy Spirit is drawing people like the Holy Spirit is drawing people like the Holy Spirit is drawing people into the church. And so we're seeing into the church. And so we're seeing into the church. And so we're seeing these waves of people turn up. Uh so these waves of people turn up. Uh so these waves of people turn up. Uh so that so that's why I say it's kind of that so that's why I say it's kind of that so that's why I say it's kind of it's sudden, it's surprising, it's it's sudden, it's surprising, it's it's sudden, it's surprising, it's supernatural, but then it can be very supernatural, but then it can be very supernatural, but then it can be very quick. So in often it's the case that it quick. So in often it's the case that it quick. So in often it's the case that it would take weeks or months for someone would take weeks or months for someone would take weeks or months for someone to come to positional faith and we're to come to positional faith and we're to come to positional faith and we're seeing within a service. I'm going to seeing within a service. I'm going to seeing within a service. I'm going to give Nikki the last word. Al, why do you give Nikki the last word. Al, why do you give Nikki the last word. Al, why do you think you're seeing what you're seeing think you're seeing what you're seeing think you're seeing what you're seeing right now? Um, particularly among Gen Z right now? Um, particularly among Gen Z right now? Um, particularly among Gen Z and Gen Z men.

and Gen Z men. and Gen Z men. >> Oh, I don't know. >> Oh, I don't know. >> Oh, I don't know. Um, Um, Um, we'll know when we get to heaven. I we'll know when we get to heaven. I we'll know when we get to heaven. I think >> I think that there are lots of good, you >> I think that there are lots of good, you know, you can analyze it, you can look know, you can analyze it, you can look know, you can analyze it, you can look at data. At the end of the day, um, you at data. At the end of the day, um, you at data. At the end of the day, um, you know, it talks about Jesus was moved by know, it talks about Jesus was moved by know, it talks about Jesus was moved by compassion. You know, God loves these compassion. You know, God loves these compassion. You know, God loves these people people people >> and he loves the young people. You know, >> and he loves the young people. You know, >> and he loves the young people. You know, I'm a parent to some younger people. I I'm a parent to some younger people. I I'm a parent to some younger people. I got my eldest is is in mid- teens um all got my eldest is is in mid- teens um all got my eldest is is in mid- teens um all the way down the ages. And you know, the way down the ages. And you know, the way down the ages. And you know, I've watched that demographic go through I've watched that demographic go through I've watched that demographic go through the pandemic. Such a hard time for them. the pandemic. Such a hard time for them. the pandemic. Such a hard time for them. let grow up on screens where um even the let grow up on screens where um even the let grow up on screens where um even the very idea of what it is to be human very idea of what it is to be human very idea of what it is to be human today is under threat. There is such a today is under threat. There is such a today is under threat. There is such a we talk about crisis around mental we talk about crisis around mental we talk about crisis around mental health and crisis around all these health and crisis around all these health and crisis around all these things but there is such a deep deep things but there is such a deep deep things but there is such a deep deep need and Jesus is magnetically drawn to need and Jesus is magnetically drawn to need and Jesus is magnetically drawn to the need to the people is you can't hold the need to the people is you can't hold the need to the people is you can't hold I think if if there was not a church on I think if if there was not a church on I think if if there was not a church on the face of the earth in this moment the face of the earth in this moment the face of the earth in this moment Jesus would be still building his church Jesus would be still building his church Jesus would be still building his church you know we just get to watch from the you know we just get to watch from the you know we just get to watch from the sidelines it is nothing to do with any sidelines it is nothing to do with any sidelines it is nothing to do with any of us you sure Stephen is one of my fave of us you sure Stephen is one of my fave of us you sure Stephen is one of my fave the best preacher you'll hear. Nikki is the best preacher you'll hear. Nikki is the best preacher you'll hear. Nikki is an extraordinary Nick and Pippa have an extraordinary Nick and Pippa have an extraordinary Nick and Pippa have extraordinary holiness and prayer and extraordinary holiness and prayer and extraordinary holiness and prayer and what happens with Alpha is just what happens with Alpha is just what happens with Alpha is just extraordinary. Alpha is the best tool extraordinary. Alpha is the best tool extraordinary. Alpha is the best tool we've ever come across. We find we've ever come across. We find we've ever come across. We find something better, we'll drop it something better, we'll drop it something better, we'll drop it tomorrow, but we aren't. You know, it's tomorrow, but we aren't. You know, it's tomorrow, but we aren't. You know, it's coming. More people have done Alpha in

coming. More people have done Alpha in coming. More people have done Alpha in the last year in the UK, 2 million than, the last year in the UK, 2 million than, the last year in the UK, 2 million than, you know, than ever before. you know, than ever before. you know, than ever before. But it's never any of these things. You But it's never any of these things. You But it's never any of these things. You can look at sociology. You can look at can look at sociology. You can look at can look at sociology. You can look at the the the generation we're in. I think the the the generation we're in. I think the the the generation we're in. I think at the end of the day, God is motivated at the end of the day, God is motivated at the end of the day, God is motivated by love and he loves the world. God so by love and he loves the world. God so by love and he loves the world. God so loved the world. Um so I think at the loved the world. Um so I think at the loved the world. Um so I think at the end of the day we get to be bystanders end of the day we get to be bystanders end of the day we get to be bystanders and you know watch on and and just watch and you know watch on and and just watch and you know watch on and and just watch the fields of the harvest being ripe and the fields of the harvest being ripe and the fields of the harvest being ripe and our job is to pray, ask the Lord of the our job is to pray, ask the Lord of the our job is to pray, ask the Lord of the harvest, do our bit to love, to keep harvest, do our bit to love, to keep harvest, do our bit to love, to keep cheering each other on. Um but it's um cheering each other on. Um but it's um cheering each other on. Um but it's um at the end of the day comes down to at the end of the day comes down to at the end of the day comes down to God's love. And I think for for all of God's love. And I think for for all of God's love. And I think for for all of us listening your community, if you're a us listening your community, if you're a us listening your community, if you're a pastor and it's hard, know this. The pastor and it's hard, know this. The pastor and it's hard, know this. The thing that I can tell you can promise thing that I can tell you can promise thing that I can tell you can promise you is true wherever you are is that God you is true wherever you are is that God you is true wherever you are is that God really loves your neighborhood. He really loves your neighborhood. He really loves your neighborhood. He really loves your people. And so all we really loves your people. And so all we really loves your people. And so all we have to do is get out the way, humble have to do is get out the way, humble have to do is get out the way, humble ourselves, pray, um, invite God into ourselves, pray, um, invite God into ourselves, pray, um, invite God into that space and he'll do the rest and that space and he'll do the rest and that space and he'll do the rest and it's up to him what he does. Well, it's up to him what he does. Well, it's up to him what he does. Well, Nikki, I mean, any thoughts on why we're Nikki, I mean, any thoughts on why we're Nikki, I mean, any thoughts on why we're seeing what we're seeing, what God might seeing what we're seeing, what God might seeing what we're seeing, what God might be up to, why young people in Stephen be up to, why young people in Stephen be up to, why young people in Stephen and Al have summed it up, but I think and Al have summed it up, but I think and Al have summed it up, but I think what the verse that that Al has been what the verse that that Al has been what the verse that that Al has been quoting from is Matthew 9:36 quoting from is Matthew 9:36 quoting from is Matthew 9:36 where Jesus had compassion on them. It's where Jesus had compassion on them. It's where Jesus had compassion on them. It's the strongest word for love in the Greek the strongest word for love in the Greek the strongest word for love in the Greek language, and it's only used actually language, and it's only used actually language, and it's only used actually about Jesus or by Jesus in the New about Jesus or by Jesus in the New about Jesus or by Jesus in the New Testament. But why did he have Testament. But why did he have Testament. But why did he have compassion? because he looked out and compassion? because he looked out and compassion? because he looked out and saw that they were harassed and helpless saw that they were harassed and helpless saw that they were harassed and helpless like sheep without a shepherd. And those

like sheep without a shepherd. And those like sheep without a shepherd. And those words I'm sure you know as you know in words I'm sure you know as you know in words I'm sure you know as you know in the Greek word for harassed basically the Greek word for harassed basically the Greek word for harassed basically the modern equivalent would be anxious the modern equivalent would be anxious the modern equivalent would be anxious >> and u helpless the modern equivalent >> and u helpless the modern equivalent >> and u helpless the modern equivalent would be depressed would be depressed would be depressed um and like sheep without a shepherd. A um and like sheep without a shepherd. A um and like sheep without a shepherd. A sheep without a shepherd is scattered. sheep without a shepherd is scattered. sheep without a shepherd is scattered. They're lonely. And so he looked out and They're lonely. And so he looked out and They're lonely. And so he looked out and he saw a generation that was anxious, he saw a generation that was anxious, he saw a generation that was anxious, depressed, and lonely. And I think that depressed, and lonely. And I think that depressed, and lonely. And I think that sums up so Jonathan Height's book, The sums up so Jonathan Height's book, The sums up so Jonathan Height's book, The Anxious Generation. This is this is the Anxious Generation. This is this is the Anxious Generation. This is this is the anxious generation. So many young people anxious generation. So many young people anxious generation. So many young people suffering from anxiety, depression, suffering from anxiety, depression, suffering from anxiety, depression, loneliness in spite of social media. In loneliness in spite of social media. In loneliness in spite of social media. In fact, maybe because of social media, fact, maybe because of social media, fact, maybe because of social media, they're isolated. They're isolated from they're isolated. They're isolated from they're isolated. They're isolated from one another, but ultimately they're one another, but ultimately they're one another, but ultimately they're sheep without a shepherd. They're sheep without a shepherd. They're sheep without a shepherd. They're isolated from Jesus, and they isolated from Jesus, and they isolated from Jesus, and they desperately need Jesus. And Jesus looks desperately need Jesus. And Jesus looks desperately need Jesus. And Jesus looks out and he has, as Al says, compassion. out and he has, as Al says, compassion. out and he has, as Al says, compassion. He loves, he loves them. He cares He loves, he loves them. He cares He loves, he loves them. He cares deeply. And he says, "Pray that the deeply. And he says, "Pray that the deeply. And he says, "Pray that the Lord, as Al said, pray the Lord of the Lord, as Al said, pray the Lord of the Lord, as Al said, pray the Lord of the harvest will raise up workers for the harvest will raise up workers for the harvest will raise up workers for the harvest field." And that's our task is harvest field." And that's our task is harvest field." And that's our task is there's a harvest field out there.

there's a harvest field out there. there's a harvest field out there. There's so many young people out there There's so many young people out there There's so many young people out there who desperately need the shepherd. And who desperately need the shepherd. And who desperately need the shepherd. And Jesus said, "Pray, you know, that's why Jesus said, "Pray, you know, that's why Jesus said, "Pray, you know, that's why Al's right. It's it's birthed in prayer. Al's right. It's it's birthed in prayer. Al's right. It's it's birthed in prayer. Pray that the Lord will raise up Pray that the Lord will raise up Pray that the Lord will raise up workers, that's us, to go out into the workers, that's us, to go out into the workers, that's us, to go out into the harvest field and bring good news to a harvest field and bring good news to a harvest field and bring good news to a generation that desperately needs generation that desperately needs generation that desperately needs Jesus." And I think it's it's amazing Jesus." And I think it's it's amazing Jesus." And I think it's it's amazing that at this time when there is such a that at this time when there is such a that at this time when there is such a massive need uh that Jesus Jesus is massive need uh that Jesus Jesus is massive need uh that Jesus Jesus is looking out and I think again having looking out and I think again having looking out and I think again having compassion and saying saying this is compassion and saying saying this is compassion and saying saying this is time to go out there because uh the time to go out there because uh the time to go out there because uh the harvest is ripe. The the fields are harvest is ripe. The the fields are harvest is ripe. The the fields are white for harvest. This is a massive white for harvest. This is a massive white for harvest. This is a massive opportunity all over the world that opportunity all over the world that opportunity all over the world that people are desperately searching for people are desperately searching for people are desperately searching for truth and Jesus is the way, the truth truth and Jesus is the way, the truth truth and Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. Jesus is the only way to and the life. Jesus is the only way to and the life. Jesus is the only way to find true. Everyone is searching for find true. Everyone is searching for find true. Everyone is searching for three things. Everyone's searching for three things. Everyone's searching for three things. Everyone's searching for love. Everyone's searching for meaning love. Everyone's searching for meaning love. Everyone's searching for meaning and everyone's searching for community.

and everyone's searching for community. and everyone's searching for community. And ultimately, you will only find that And ultimately, you will only find that And ultimately, you will only find that you are loved. To really know that you are loved. To really know that you are loved. To really know that you're loved, you need to find a you're loved, you need to find a you're loved, you need to find a relationship with God. To really have relationship with God. To really have relationship with God. To really have ultimate meaning and purpose that lives ultimate meaning and purpose that lives ultimate meaning and purpose that lives beyond this life, you you need to be um beyond this life, you you need to be um beyond this life, you you need to be um doing what Jesus called you to do, doing what Jesus called you to do, doing what Jesus called you to do, glorifying the name of Jesus. And to and glorifying the name of Jesus. And to and glorifying the name of Jesus. And to and the church is the greatest community on the church is the greatest community on the church is the greatest community on planet earth. M you know it was always I planet earth. M you know it was always I planet earth. M you know it was always I thought oh host three guests that's thought oh host three guests that's thought oh host three guests that's always a challenge on a podcast but I always a challenge on a podcast but I always a challenge on a podcast but I just want to thank each of you because I just want to thank each of you because I just want to thank each of you because I feel like what we're able to do here in feel like what we're able to do here in feel like what we're able to do here in just over an hour was give people a just over an hour was give people a just over an hour was give people a sample who haven't made it to the UK of sample who haven't made it to the UK of sample who haven't made it to the UK of the camaraderie the camaraderie the camaraderie the unity the humility the unity the humility the unity the humility the long obedience this has been a 25 30 the long obedience this has been a 25 30 the long obedience this has been a 25 30 40 year story that God has been writing 40 year story that God has been writing 40 year story that God has been writing through the church in the UK that's now through the church in the UK that's now through the church in the UK that's now starting to reach that inflection point, starting to reach that inflection point, starting to reach that inflection point, that cross over. And uh I think we have that cross over. And uh I think we have that cross over. And uh I think we have a lot to learn. I keep thinking that a lot to learn. I keep thinking that a lot to learn. I keep thinking that what God's doing in the UK is a prequel what God's doing in the UK is a prequel what God's doing in the UK is a prequel to what he might want to cultivate in to what he might want to cultivate in to what he might want to cultivate in America, in Canada, in the heart of the America, in Canada, in the heart of the America, in Canada, in the heart of the leaders in terms of posture and leaders in terms of posture and leaders in terms of posture and positioning, in terms of our church's positioning, in terms of our church's positioning, in terms of our church's posture and positioning. And I just want posture and positioning. And I just want posture and positioning. And I just want to say, you know, thank you for sharing to say, you know, thank you for sharing to say, you know, thank you for sharing this. I know not everything has been this. I know not everything has been this. I know not everything has been easy to talk about or to quantify, but easy to talk about or to quantify, but easy to talk about or to quantify, but if you've listened to this point, you

if you've listened to this point, you if you've listened to this point, you have a pretty good idea what's going on have a pretty good idea what's going on have a pretty good idea what's going on in the UK. And if you can get on a plane in the UK. And if you can get on a plane in the UK. And if you can get on a plane and go see it up firsthand, amazing. I'm and go see it up firsthand, amazing. I'm and go see it up firsthand, amazing. I'm looking forward to our return visit at looking forward to our return visit at looking forward to our return visit at some point soon. But I want to thank some point soon. But I want to thank some point soon. But I want to thank each of you. So, we will link to all of each of you. So, we will link to all of each of you. So, we will link to all of your social media to Alpha's social your social media to Alpha's social your social media to Alpha's social media, but if people want to follow live media, but if people want to follow live media, but if people want to follow live like kind of what's happening, is there like kind of what's happening, is there like kind of what's happening, is there a particularly good account or website a particularly good account or website a particularly good account or website or the church accounts or what would be or the church accounts or what would be or the church accounts or what would be a good place for them to say, "No, I a good place for them to say, "No, I a good place for them to say, "No, I want to I want to see this in real want to I want to see this in real want to I want to see this in real time." And uh you know, Stephen, I know time." And uh you know, Stephen, I know time." And uh you know, Stephen, I know you're DMing me like stories and you're DMing me like stories and you're DMing me like stories and articles from time to time. Follow all articles from time to time. Follow all articles from time to time. Follow all of you on social. I see what's going on. of you on social. I see what's going on. of you on social. I see what's going on. It's amazing. What would you recommend? It's amazing. What would you recommend? It's amazing. What would you recommend? Is there a site or a place that you Is there a site or a place that you Is there a site or a place that you would send leaders to? would send leaders to? would send leaders to? >> Uh, you're the expert in this area. >> Uh, you're the expert in this area. >> Uh, you're the expert in this area. >> No, I'm not. I think um go check out >> No, I'm not. I think um go check out >> No, I'm not. I think um go check out Alpha if you've not if you're not Alpha if you've not if you're not Alpha if you've not if you're not running Alpha. Um, genuinely um uh the running Alpha. Um, genuinely um uh the running Alpha. Um, genuinely um uh the the thing we're realizing is that if the thing we're realizing is that if the thing we're realizing is that if people start walking through the door of people start walking through the door of people start walking through the door of your church, you're going to have to your church, you're going to have to your church, you're going to have to disciple them and um and they're going disciple them and um and they're going disciple them and um and they're going to have lots of questions. So, I think to have lots of questions. So, I think to have lots of questions. So, I think if you're not running Alpha three times if you're not running Alpha three times if you're not running Alpha three times a year, your front door, you know, it's a year, your front door, you know, it's a year, your front door, you know, it's going to be a revolving door. So just I going to be a revolving door. So just I going to be a revolving door. So just I would encourage you to go check out would encourage you to go check out would encourage you to go check out Alpha. Um you can find it online in your Alpha. Um you can find it online in your Alpha. Um you can find it online in your you know wherever you're listening to you know wherever you're listening to you know wherever you're listening to this there'll be an Alpha um team who this there'll be an Alpha um team who this there'll be an Alpha um team who can help support you and help you get can help support you and help you get can help support you and help you get started. Um but started. Um but started. Um but >> and Alpha USA is really taking off as >> and Alpha USA is really taking off as >> and Alpha USA is really taking off as well too. So it's in pretty much every well too. So it's in pretty much every well too. So it's in pretty much every nation and nation and nation and >> that's a great recommend. Any other >> that's a great recommend. Any other >> that's a great recommend. Any other thoughts or final thought?

thoughts or final thought? thoughts or final thought? >> Just thank you Carrie. It's always great >> Just thank you Carrie. It's always great >> Just thank you Carrie. It's always great to chat. Yeah. to chat. Yeah. to chat. Yeah. >> Yeah. Thanks Carrie. It's really lovely >> Yeah. Thanks Carrie. It's really lovely >> Yeah. Thanks Carrie. It's really lovely to see you. Look forward to seeing you to see you. Look forward to seeing you to see you. Look forward to seeing you in Canada in a couple weeks. By the time in Canada in a couple weeks. By the time in Canada in a couple weeks. By the time this airs, we will have met in Toronto. this airs, we will have met in Toronto. this airs, we will have met in Toronto. You're meeting with some church leaders You're meeting with some church leaders You're meeting with some church leaders and I'm really excited and just thank and I'm really excited and just thank and I'm really excited and just thank you. Thank you for sharing this. I think you. Thank you for sharing this. I think you. Thank you for sharing this. I think it's really important to tell the story it's really important to tell the story it's really important to tell the story and to tell the story behind the and to tell the story behind the and to tell the story behind the headlines and I feel like uh each of you headlines and I feel like uh each of you headlines and I feel like uh each of you has brought such an important dimension has brought such an important dimension has brought such an important dimension to that and you've really served the to that and you've really served the to that and you've really served the global church well uh both in your global church well uh both in your global church well uh both in your lifetime and also in trying to lifetime and also in trying to lifetime and also in trying to articulate perhaps what the Lord is articulate perhaps what the Lord is articulate perhaps what the Lord is doing and what we want to see more of. doing and what we want to see more of. doing and what we want to see more of. So to each of you, to Steven, to Al, to So to each of you, to Steven, to Al, to So to each of you, to Steven, to Al, to Nikki, thank you so much. Nikki, thank you so much. Nikki, thank you so much. >> Thank you. God bless. >> Thank you. God bless. >> Thank you. God bless. >> Thank you. God bless. Bye. God bless, >> Thank you. God bless. Bye. God bless, >> Thank you. God bless. Bye. God bless, Gary.