Can Preachers Have Depression Too?

Watch out for your mental health if Watch out for your mental health if you're a preacher. you're a preacher. you're a preacher. Yeah. I mean, because, and I noticed Yeah. I mean, because, and I noticed Yeah. I mean, because, and I noticed this, especially before you get up until this, especially before you get up until this, especially before you get up until the pulpit, the enemy will attack your the pulpit, the enemy will attack your the pulpit, the enemy will attack your mind. mind. mind. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And it's easy for preachers to either >> And it's easy for preachers to either >> And it's easy for preachers to either neglect that or to embrace it way too neglect that or to embrace it way too neglect that or to embrace it way too much. much. much. >> Welcome to the Carrie New Hoff >> Welcome to the Carrie New Hoff >> Welcome to the Carrie New Hoff Leadership Podcast. Hey, something we Leadership Podcast. Hey, something we Leadership Podcast. Hey, something we haven't really tackled head-on before. haven't really tackled head-on before. haven't really tackled head-on before. What do you do if you're in leadership? What do you do if you're in leadership? What do you do if you're in leadership? If you're a preacher and you struggle If you're a preacher and you struggle If you're a preacher and you struggle with depression, we're going to talk with depression, we're going to talk with depression, we're going to talk about preaching through depression today about preaching through depression today about preaching through depression today with Faith Yuri Cho. We talk about with Faith Yuri Cho. We talk about with Faith Yuri Cho. We talk about mental health, also talk about the Holy mental health, also talk about the Holy mental health, also talk about the Holy Spirit, reaching Gen Z, church planting, Spirit, reaching Gen Z, church planting, Spirit, reaching Gen Z, church planting, and a whole lot more. I think you're and a whole lot more. I think you're and a whole lot more. I think you're going to really appreciate this episode. going to really appreciate this episode. going to really appreciate this episode. And thank you in advance faith for your And thank you in advance faith for your And thank you in advance faith for your vulnerability. Hey, if that's you and vulnerability. Hey, if that's you and vulnerability. Hey, if that's you and you struggle with mental health, I just you struggle with mental health, I just you struggle with mental health, I just want you to know I want to wrap my arms want you to know I want to wrap my arms want you to know I want to wrap my arms around you. And I am just so sorry for around you. And I am just so sorry for around you. And I am just so sorry for that struggle. But you know what? God that struggle. But you know what? God that struggle. But you know what? God can still use you. And I hope this can still use you. And I hope this can still use you. And I hope this episode really gives you hope. Some of episode really gives you hope. Some of episode really gives you hope. Some of the greatest preachers in history like the greatest preachers in history like the greatest preachers in history like Charles Spurgeon have struggled with Charles Spurgeon have struggled with Charles Spurgeon have struggled with mental health issues and you're not mental health issues and you're not mental health issues and you're not alone in that. So, wherever you're alone in that. So, wherever you're alone in that. So, wherever you're watching, be sure to follow and leave a watching, be sure to follow and leave a watching, be sure to follow and leave a comment to join the conversation. We're comment to join the conversation. We're comment to join the conversation. We're going to jump into a word from today's going to jump into a word from today's going to jump into a word from today's partners and then we'll dive into my partners and then we'll dive into my partners and then we'll dive into my conversation filmed in Chicago with conversation filmed in Chicago with conversation filmed in Chicago with Faith Yuri Cho. This episode is brought Faith Yuri Cho. This episode is brought Faith Yuri Cho. This episode is brought to you by the art of preaching. So, to you by the art of preaching. So, to you by the art of preaching. So, preachers, does this sound familiar to preachers, does this sound familiar to preachers, does this sound familiar to you? You're up on a Sunday morning.

you? You're up on a Sunday morning. you? You're up on a Sunday morning. You're given your message and then all You're given your message and then all You're given your message and then all of a sudden you lose your train of of a sudden you lose your train of of a sudden you lose your train of thought, right? Maybe you fumble for thought, right? Maybe you fumble for thought, right? Maybe you fumble for your notes or you tell a story that your notes or you tell a story that your notes or you tell a story that flops just to fill the time and you feel flops just to fill the time and you feel flops just to fill the time and you feel like all the eyes are just staring right like all the eyes are just staring right like all the eyes are just staring right back at you. Your gut drops. Your palms back at you. Your gut drops. Your palms back at you. Your gut drops. Your palms get sweaty. And then what do you do? You get sweaty. And then what do you do? You get sweaty. And then what do you do? You replay it in your head on Sunday replay it in your head on Sunday replay it in your head on Sunday afternoon and again when you're lying afternoon and again when you're lying afternoon and again when you're lying awake at night staring at the ceiling. awake at night staring at the ceiling. awake at night staring at the ceiling. Look, I get it. After more than 30 years Look, I get it. After more than 30 years Look, I get it. After more than 30 years of preaching, I have made just about of preaching, I have made just about of preaching, I have made just about every mistake you can make. more than every mistake you can make. more than every mistake you can make. more than once. But becoming a more effective once. But becoming a more effective once. But becoming a more effective preacher and communicator is a skill you preacher and communicator is a skill you preacher and communicator is a skill you can grow and develop. And that's why I can grow and develop. And that's why I can grow and develop. And that's why I created along with Mark Clark, the art created along with Mark Clark, the art created along with Mark Clark, the art of preaching, a step-by-step course that of preaching, a step-by-step course that of preaching, a step-by-step course that helps you break free from panic and helps you break free from panic and helps you break free from panic and preach every Sunday with clarity, with preach every Sunday with clarity, with preach every Sunday with clarity, with confidence, and best of all, with confidence, and best of all, with confidence, and best of all, with impact. And you won't just learn from impact. And you won't just learn from impact. And you won't just learn from me. Mark and I do the course together, me. Mark and I do the course together, me. Mark and I do the course together, but you will also hear from Faith, Yuri but you will also hear from Faith, Yuri but you will also hear from Faith, Yuri Cho, Megan Fate Marshman, Noah Herren, Cho, Megan Fate Marshman, Noah Herren, Cho, Megan Fate Marshman, Noah Herren, and Adam Messa. And together we are and Adam Messa. And together we are and Adam Messa. And together we are going to bring you the strategies, the going to bring you the strategies, the going to bring you the strategies, the tools and encouragement to preach tools and encouragement to preach tools and encouragement to preach sermons that are clear, engaging, and sermons that are clear, engaging, and sermons that are clear, engaging, and memorable. Most preaching resources give memorable. Most preaching resources give memorable. Most preaching resources give you inspiration. Some give you a formula you inspiration. Some give you a formula you inspiration. Some give you a formula to follow. But the art of preaching to follow. But the art of preaching to follow. But the art of preaching gives you the insight, strategies, and gives you the insight, strategies, and gives you the insight, strategies, and tools from a variety of perspectives to tools from a variety of perspectives to tools from a variety of perspectives to transform your skill set and develop transform your skill set and develop transform your skill set and develop your gifting. You will actually your gifting. You will actually your gifting. You will actually transform your preaching one step at a transform your preaching one step at a transform your preaching one step at a time. You'll be amazed at the results.

time. You'll be amazed at the results. time. You'll be amazed at the results. The course is open for enrollment now The course is open for enrollment now The course is open for enrollment now and you can check it out at the art of and you can check it out at the art of and you can check it out at the art of preachingcourse.com preachingcourse.com preachingcourse.com or by clicking the link in the or by clicking the link in the or by clicking the link in the description of this episode. Again, just description of this episode. Again, just description of this episode. Again, just click the link in the description of click the link in the description of click the link in the description of this episode, you will get instant this episode, you will get instant this episode, you will get instant access to our course, the art of access to our course, the art of access to our course, the art of preaching. This episode is brought to preaching. This episode is brought to preaching. This episode is brought to you by Subsplash. Did you know that 30% you by Subsplash. Did you know that 30% you by Subsplash. Did you know that 30% of all donations are given in the month of all donations are given in the month of all donations are given in the month of December? And yet so many churches of December? And yet so many churches of December? And yet so many churches wait too long to prepare for it. If you wait too long to prepare for it. If you wait too long to prepare for it. If you feel like year-end giving is feel like year-end giving is feel like year-end giving is unpredictable or even stressful, you are unpredictable or even stressful, you are unpredictable or even stressful, you are not alone. And Subsplash can help your not alone. And Subsplash can help your not alone. And Subsplash can help your church engage generous disciples and church engage generous disciples and church engage generous disciples and capture the momentum that powers capture the momentum that powers capture the momentum that powers life-changing ministry. So don't wait life-changing ministry. So don't wait life-changing ministry. So don't wait until December to think about until December to think about until December to think about generosity. Start today. Subsplash can generosity. Start today. Subsplash can generosity. Start today. Subsplash can help you craft a vision, equip your help you craft a vision, equip your help you craft a vision, equip your team, and leverage tools that make it team, and leverage tools that make it team, and leverage tools that make it easy for your people to give. If you're easy for your people to give. If you're easy for your people to give. If you're looking to encourage year-end looking to encourage year-end looking to encourage year-end generosity, Subsplash is the platform generosity, Subsplash is the platform generosity, Subsplash is the platform for you. With the lowest rates in the for you. With the lowest rates in the for you. With the lowest rates in the industry and tools that make digital industry and tools that make digital industry and tools that make digital giving seamless, there's never been a giving seamless, there's never been a giving seamless, there's never been a better time to start. Head to better time to start. Head to better time to start. Head to subsplash.com/carry subsplash.com/carry subsplash.com/carry [Music] [Music] [Music] to save $500 when you sign up. That's to save $500 when you sign up. That's to save $500 when you sign up. That's subsplash.com/carry.

subsplash.com/carry. subsplash.com/carry. Faith, welcome to the podcast. Faith, welcome to the podcast. Faith, welcome to the podcast. >> Thanks for having me. >> Thanks for having me. >> Thanks for having me. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I'm glad to be here. >> Yeah, I'm glad to be here. >> Yeah, I'm glad to be here. >> Well, we're we're glad to have you. you >> Well, we're we're glad to have you. you >> Well, we're we're glad to have you. you did what a a s I'd love stats on this at did what a a s I'd love stats on this at did what a a s I'd love stats on this at some point, some point, some point, >> but a surprising number of people >> but a surprising number of people >> but a surprising number of people started to think about launching a started to think about launching a started to think about launching a church in late 2019, early 2020. I don't church in late 2019, early 2020. I don't church in late 2019, early 2020. I don't know what it was, whether it was in the know what it was, whether it was in the know what it was, whether it was in the water supply, whether the Holy Spirit water supply, whether the Holy Spirit water supply, whether the Holy Spirit was moving. was moving. was moving. >> Totally. >> Totally. >> Totally. >> But you and your husband did the same >> But you and your husband did the same >> But you and your husband did the same thing. It was in early 2020. You're thing. It was in early 2020. You're thing. It was in early 2020. You're like, "Let's plant a church." like, "Let's plant a church." like, "Let's plant a church." >> Totally >> Totally >> Totally >> right. Great timing. Congratulations on >> right. Great timing. Congratulations on >> right. Great timing. Congratulations on that. that. that. >> Pick up the story. What happened? Uh >> Pick up the story. What happened? Uh >> Pick up the story. What happened? Uh what prompts somebody to want to plant a what prompts somebody to want to plant a what prompts somebody to want to plant a church these days? Well, for us it was a church these days? Well, for us it was a church these days? Well, for us it was a long-term thing. My husband had it in long-term thing. My husband had it in long-term thing. My husband had it in his heart for a while and I I caught the his heart for a while and I I caught the his heart for a while and I I caught the cold, you know, I caught the disease, if cold, you know, I caught the disease, if cold, you know, I caught the disease, if you will. Um, and at 2019, we received a you will. Um, and at 2019, we received a you will. Um, and at 2019, we received a blessing from our church to transition blessing from our church to transition blessing from our church to transition out from our home church of near a out from our home church of near a out from our home church of near a decade. And we started off in this decade. And we started off in this decade. And we started off in this venture of faith January 2020. And then venture of faith January 2020. And then venture of faith January 2020. And then at that point, we had a plan. We had at that point, we had a plan. We had at that point, we had a plan. We had people, we had a venue, we had income, people, we had a venue, we had income, people, we had a venue, we had income, and then you and then you and then you >> had income before you launch.

>> had income before you launch. >> had income before you launch. >> Um, yeah. I mean, a planned income. >> Um, yeah. I mean, a planned income. >> Um, yeah. I mean, a planned income. Okay. Planned income. Okay. Planned income. Okay. Planned income. >> A planned income. >> A planned income. >> A planned income. >> Welcome to church planner, right? Right. >> Welcome to church planner, right? Right. >> Welcome to church planner, right? Right. Optimism reigns. Optimism reigns. Optimism reigns. >> Absolutely. And March of 2020, >> Absolutely. And March of 2020, >> Absolutely. And March of 2020, um, it all went down and, um, our first um, it all went down and, um, our first um, it all went down and, um, our first week of team meetings was actually the week of team meetings was actually the week of team meetings was actually the first week of lockdown. first week of lockdown. first week of lockdown. >> Oh, great. >> Oh, great. >> Oh, great. >> Yep. Yep. And the world as we know it, >> Yep. Yep. And the world as we know it, >> Yep. Yep. And the world as we know it, right, uh just took a whole turn and right, uh just took a whole turn and right, uh just took a whole turn and everybody was going through this global everybody was going through this global everybody was going through this global trauma and uh basically within a couple trauma and uh basically within a couple trauma and uh basically within a couple weeks we lost everything and we were all weeks we lost everything and we were all weeks we lost everything and we were all locked down and my husband and I, we locked down and my husband and I, we locked down and my husband and I, we have four kids and um we were in a have four kids and um we were in a have four kids and um we were in a parsonage that we had to move out by parsonage that we had to move out by parsonage that we had to move out by June of 2020. We had no more income. We June of 2020. We had no more income. We June of 2020. We had no more income. We were living off of our savings. were living off of our savings. were living off of our savings. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> We didn't have people. We didn't have a >> We didn't have people. We didn't have a >> We didn't have people. We didn't have a venue. And at that point, there was this venue. And at that point, there was this venue. And at that point, there was this question of um are you really a church question of um are you really a church question of um are you really a church planter if you have no money and no planter if you have no money and no planter if you have no money and no people? people? people? >> That's right. What happened to the >> That's right. What happened to the >> That's right. What happened to the people? Like you could have met by Zoom, people? Like you could have met by Zoom, people? Like you could have met by Zoom, but I mean it was a period, you know, but I mean it was a period, you know, but I mean it was a period, you know, people most people remember where a lot people most people remember where a lot people most people remember where a lot of people moved out and you're almost in of people moved out and you're almost in of people moved out and you're almost in New York, right?

New York, right? New York, right? >> Right. Absolutely. >> Right. Absolutely. >> Right. Absolutely. >> So, a lot of people fled. Did you have >> So, a lot of people fled. Did you have >> So, a lot of people fled. Did you have that happening to your core team? that happening to your core team? that happening to your core team? >> Well, no. It was just a lot of >> Well, no. It was just a lot of >> Well, no. It was just a lot of confusion. confusion. confusion. >> Um just what is a church plant during a >> Um just what is a church plant during a >> Um just what is a church plant during a lockdown? right? Like you know we can't lockdown? right? Like you know we can't lockdown? right? Like you know we can't physically gather and there was a lot of physically gather and there was a lot of physically gather and there was a lot of conversations not just with people but conversations not just with people but conversations not just with people but across the board amongst churches and across the board amongst churches and across the board amongst churches and amongst church planters like what does amongst church planters like what does amongst church planters like what does it mean to gather? How do you rally it mean to gather? How do you rally it mean to gather? How do you rally people? How do you galvanize momentum people? How do you galvanize momentum people? How do you galvanize momentum when you cannot get into a physical when you cannot get into a physical when you cannot get into a physical room? Um, and not only that, but if you room? Um, and not only that, but if you room? Um, and not only that, but if you are extremely gifted at casting vision are extremely gifted at casting vision are extremely gifted at casting vision while face to face, I mean, this is a while face to face, I mean, this is a while face to face, I mean, this is a time where people were hearing about time where people were hearing about time where people were hearing about Zoom for the first time. Yeah. Zoom for the first time. Yeah. Zoom for the first time. Yeah. >> You know, I didn't know what Zoom was. >> You know, I didn't know what Zoom was. >> You know, I didn't know what Zoom was. Um, I vaguely knew about Google Meets, Um, I vaguely knew about Google Meets, Um, I vaguely knew about Google Meets, right? And so to all of a sudden click right? And so to all of a sudden click right? And so to all of a sudden click into a screen and try to figure that into a screen and try to figure that into a screen and try to figure that out, it was just a really steep learning out, it was just a really steep learning out, it was just a really steep learning curve for us. It sounds like a recipe curve for us. It sounds like a recipe curve for us. It sounds like a recipe for for for completely moving in a new direction. We completely moving in a new direction. We completely moving in a new direction. We weren't called. We were hallucinating.

weren't called. We were hallucinating. weren't called. We were hallucinating. Um, you know, maybe it was the pizza, Um, you know, maybe it was the pizza, Um, you know, maybe it was the pizza, maybe it was the sushi, maybe it was the sushi, maybe it was the sushi, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> God didn't call us to this, but your >> God didn't call us to this, but your >> God didn't call us to this, but your church is alive and well today. church is alive and well today. church is alive and well today. >> It is. >> It is. >> It is. >> So, what happened? What were the >> So, what happened? What were the >> So, what happened? What were the midcourse corrections you made midcourse corrections you made midcourse corrections you made >> to pull this thing out of the dumpster? >> to pull this thing out of the dumpster? >> to pull this thing out of the dumpster? What seems like the dumpster, right? What seems like the dumpster, right? What seems like the dumpster, right? >> Yeah. Well, definitely felt like the >> Yeah. Well, definitely felt like the >> Yeah. Well, definitely felt like the dumpster for sure. dumpster for sure. dumpster for sure. >> Yeah. And when you have no income and >> Yeah. And when you have no income and >> Yeah. And when you have no income and you got four mouths to feed six, really you got four mouths to feed six, really you got four mouths to feed six, really like that's an existential crisis. like that's an existential crisis. like that's an existential crisis. >> Oh, absolutely. And it was one of the >> Oh, absolutely. And it was one of the >> Oh, absolutely. And it was one of the most theologically formative seasons of most theologically formative seasons of most theologically formative seasons of my life. my life. my life. >> How so? >> How so? >> How so? >> Because I think it's easy, especially as >> Because I think it's easy, especially as >> Because I think it's easy, especially as ministers and if you have at least a ministers and if you have at least a ministers and if you have at least a couple years of experience, you start to couple years of experience, you start to couple years of experience, you start to think you know something think you know something think you know something >> and you start to think that you have >> and you start to think that you have >> and you start to think that you have experience and a strategy. experience and a strategy. experience and a strategy. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And you start to think really highly of >> And you start to think really highly of >> And you start to think really highly of your plans. your plans. your plans. And um I went into this thinking we know And um I went into this thinking we know And um I went into this thinking we know what to do, you know. Um we we know what what to do, you know. Um we we know what what to do, you know. Um we we know what God has called us to do. And that felt God has called us to do. And that felt God has called us to do. And that felt like it was enough. Knowing that God has like it was enough. Knowing that God has like it was enough. Knowing that God has called you to do something is not called you to do something is not called you to do something is not enough. It's the dependence on his Holy enough. It's the dependence on his Holy enough. It's the dependence on his Holy Spirit's presence that um that that Spirit's presence that um that that Spirit's presence that um that that getting to your knees that's required to getting to your knees that's required to getting to your knees that's required to birth what's only a miracle by God. I'm birth what's only a miracle by God. I'm birth what's only a miracle by God. I'm now convinced at this point in in the now convinced at this point in in the now convinced at this point in in the whole process and journey of uh church whole process and journey of uh church whole process and journey of uh church planting that every church that stands planting that every church that stands planting that every church that stands whether it's good, bad, small or big whether it's good, bad, small or big whether it's good, bad, small or big that it is a miracle that it is a miracle that it is a miracle >> because it is God that gives you the >> because it is God that gives you the >> because it is God that gives you the lampstand it is God that decides to take

lampstand it is God that decides to take lampstand it is God that decides to take it away right and so seeing what it it away right and so seeing what it it away right and so seeing what it takes to actually birth this thing takes to actually birth this thing takes to actually birth this thing realizing it's really not up to me and I realizing it's really not up to me and I realizing it's really not up to me and I could plan and plan and hustle and could plan and plan and hustle and could plan and plan and hustle and hustle but at the end of the day it hustle but at the end of the day it hustle but at the end of the day it really has to from the Lord. And um also really has to from the Lord. And um also really has to from the Lord. And um also realizing everything that I've read and realizing everything that I've read and realizing everything that I've read and taught about the Holy Spirit in the taught about the Holy Spirit in the taught about the Holy Spirit in the Bible is absolutely true. Bible is absolutely true. Bible is absolutely true. >> Everything about God that we've been >> Everything about God that we've been >> Everything about God that we've been preaching is absolutely true because preaching is absolutely true because preaching is absolutely true because something that really challenged me something that really challenged me something that really challenged me during this season is is it true that during this season is is it true that during this season is is it true that Israel was led and fed by God alone? Israel was led and fed by God alone? Israel was led and fed by God alone? Like is that actually true? Because you Like is that actually true? Because you Like is that actually true? Because you know we're we live in a day where we're know we're we live in a day where we're know we're we live in a day where we're like well yes but you know you need this like well yes but you know you need this like well yes but you know you need this you need that you got to steward this you need that you got to steward this you need that you got to steward this and absolutely all of that is absolutely and absolutely all of that is absolutely and absolutely all of that is absolutely true you know I believe in stewardship I true you know I believe in stewardship I true you know I believe in stewardship I I believe in learning by experience I I believe in learning by experience I I believe in learning by experience I believe in impartation of wisdom and um believe in impartation of wisdom and um believe in impartation of wisdom and um collaboration of strategy and I yes all collaboration of strategy and I yes all collaboration of strategy and I yes all of that is good but at the end of the of that is good but at the end of the of that is good but at the end of the day it's God that leads and feeds right day it's God that leads and feeds right day it's God that leads and feeds right and so um getting to this place where we and so um getting to this place where we and so um getting to this place where we had 30 bucks left, right? And um no name had 30 bucks left, right? And um no name had 30 bucks left, right? And um no name to call. You know, I think church to call. You know, I think church to call. You know, I think church planting networks, they they press a lot planting networks, they they press a lot planting networks, they they press a lot about fundraising. You know, some of the about fundraising. You know, some of the about fundraising. You know, some of the first workshops that you that you go first workshops that you that you go first workshops that you that you go through is about fundraising. But how through is about fundraising. But how through is about fundraising. But how can you fundra if you have no one to can you fundra if you have no one to can you fundra if you have no one to call, if you have absolutely no call, if you have absolutely no call, if you have absolutely no connection? Um when um you're kind of in connection? Um when um you're kind of in connection? Um when um you're kind of in a silo at a certain season of your life, a silo at a certain season of your life, a silo at a certain season of your life, right? um when your context is not the

right? um when your context is not the right? um when your context is not the context of most people that resource context of most people that resource context of most people that resource church plants, right? Um coming out of church plants, right? Um coming out of church plants, right? Um coming out of the KoreanAmerican church and having the KoreanAmerican church and having the KoreanAmerican church and having spent majority of my faith journey in spent majority of my faith journey in spent majority of my faith journey in the Korean-American church and now being the Korean-American church and now being the Korean-American church and now being in the multithnic, multicultural sphere, in the multithnic, multicultural sphere, in the multithnic, multicultural sphere, um I think that was just a big culture um I think that was just a big culture um I think that was just a big culture shock for me. And really the only shock for me. And really the only shock for me. And really the only assurance that we had was just who God assurance that we had was just who God assurance that we had was just who God was. And during that time when we had no was. And during that time when we had no was. And during that time when we had no and a nothing, that really made me um and a nothing, that really made me um and a nothing, that really made me um revisit. Do I believe what I know? And revisit. Do I believe what I know? And revisit. Do I believe what I know? And um I thank God for it. Would I go back um I thank God for it. Would I go back um I thank God for it. Would I go back to it if I could? No. But do I thank God to it if I could? No. But do I thank God to it if I could? No. But do I thank God for it? Absolutely. for it? Absolutely. for it? Absolutely. >> Well, I I love your story because so >> Well, I I love your story because so >> Well, I I love your story because so many of the stories that we hear are, many of the stories that we hear are, many of the stories that we hear are, you know, well, we started with nothing. you know, well, we started with nothing. you know, well, we started with nothing. We were a thousand people week one, then We were a thousand people week one, then We were a thousand people week one, then 2,000, then 5,000, then we were 17 2,000, then 5,000, then we were 17 2,000, then 5,000, then we were 17 locations at month six. Not quite, but locations at month six. Not quite, but locations at month six. Not quite, but we get those stories a lot on podcasts we get those stories a lot on podcasts we get those stories a lot on podcasts like this, but this is you're in the like this, but this is you're in the like this, but this is you're in the trenches. You're grinding.

trenches. You're grinding. trenches. You're grinding. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> There's nobody left. >> There's nobody left. >> There's nobody left. >> What? And you eventually did launch and >> What? And you eventually did launch and >> What? And you eventually did launch and spoiler alert. spoiler alert. spoiler alert. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What were some inflection points? What >> What were some inflection points? What >> What were some inflection points? What were some moments like how did you and were some moments like how did you and were some moments like how did you and your husband rally people when you your husband rally people when you your husband rally people when you couldn't even meet in person? What did couldn't even meet in person? What did couldn't even meet in person? What did you do to sort of, you know, resurrect you do to sort of, you know, resurrect you do to sort of, you know, resurrect what was left or start over again? what was left or start over again? what was left or start over again? >> Absolutely. You know what? I'll be >> Absolutely. You know what? I'll be >> Absolutely. You know what? I'll be honest, and maybe some people will not honest, and maybe some people will not honest, and maybe some people will not like this cuz it's not going to be a like this cuz it's not going to be a like this cuz it's not going to be a clean formula. clean formula. clean formula. >> Um, but we really had to depend on the >> Um, but we really had to depend on the >> Um, but we really had to depend on the voice of God. voice of God. voice of God. >> I remember there was once during prayer >> I remember there was once during prayer >> I remember there was once during prayer when I told the Holy Spirit, I don't when I told the Holy Spirit, I don't when I told the Holy Spirit, I don't have enough friends for this. have enough friends for this. have enough friends for this. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> You know, if you had me plant in >> You know, if you had me plant in >> You know, if you had me plant in California, fine. I think that'll work California, fine. I think that'll work California, fine. I think that'll work out great. out great. out great. >> Is that originally home base for you? >> Is that originally home base for you? >> Is that originally home base for you? >> Um, I've lived all over. >> Um, I've lived all over. >> Um, I've lived all over. >> Yeah. But I mean that's where a lot of >> Yeah. But I mean that's where a lot of >> Yeah. But I mean that's where a lot of my connection and networks were. Yeah. my connection and networks were. Yeah. my connection and networks were. Yeah. Um if you had me even plant across the Um if you had me even plant across the Um if you had me even plant across the river 15 minutes even across the river I river 15 minutes even across the river I river 15 minutes even across the river I think I would have a better chance. think I would have a better chance. think I would have a better chance. >> You mean in New York? >> You mean in New York? >> You mean in New York? >> Yes. In New York City. Um and but now >> Yes. In New York City. Um and but now >> Yes. In New York City. Um and but now here I am in the one place where here I am in the one place where here I am in the one place where actually I don't really have much pull.

actually I don't really have much pull. actually I don't really have much pull. So Holy Spirit did I get it wrong? Are So Holy Spirit did I get it wrong? Are So Holy Spirit did I get it wrong? Are you wrong? Is am I allowed to ask that? you wrong? Is am I allowed to ask that? you wrong? Is am I allowed to ask that? I mean it was a a whole thing. And I I mean it was a a whole thing. And I I mean it was a a whole thing. And I remember even taking out my phone and remember even taking out my phone and remember even taking out my phone and saying, "Look at my phone, Lord." Like, saying, "Look at my phone, Lord." Like, saying, "Look at my phone, Lord." Like, "I don't have enough contacts from this "I don't have enough contacts from this "I don't have enough contacts from this county." Um I I mean, that's the funny county." Um I I mean, that's the funny county." Um I I mean, that's the funny thing. I even have friends 2 hours away thing. I even have friends 2 hours away thing. I even have friends 2 hours away in southern New Jersey, but not even in in southern New Jersey, but not even in in southern New Jersey, but not even in this county. Um Lord, what do you want this county. Um Lord, what do you want this county. Um Lord, what do you want me to do? Um, and not only that, but one me to do? Um, and not only that, but one me to do? Um, and not only that, but one of the things that I really felt the of the things that I really felt the of the things that I really felt the Lord was leading us to, um, because at Lord was leading us to, um, because at Lord was leading us to, um, because at the at the start we had generally a the at the start we had generally a the at the start we had generally a Korean-American demographic um, in our Korean-American demographic um, in our Korean-American demographic um, in our in our team, but I really felt this in our team, but I really felt this in our team, but I really felt this uncction of the Lord saying, "No, I've uncction of the Lord saying, "No, I've uncction of the Lord saying, "No, I've called you to start a multicultural, called you to start a multicultural, called you to start a multicultural, multithnic church." And being an multithnic church." And being an multithnic church." And being an Asian-American woman and my husband and Asian-American woman and my husband and Asian-American woman and my husband and I being an Asian-American couple, um, I I being an Asian-American couple, um, I I being an Asian-American couple, um, I just knew we could not force that. So just knew we could not force that. So just knew we could not force that. So how do you start a team u given what we how do you start a team u given what we how do you start a team u given what we have given even our experience have given even our experience have given even our experience how do you even manufacture that you how do you even manufacture that you how do you even manufacture that you cannot but you know I would say the cannot but you know I would say the cannot but you know I would say the first 10 in our team um were primar first 10 in our team um were primar first 10 in our team um were primar primarily um other cultures other primarily um other cultures other primarily um other cultures other backgrounds even other generations um backgrounds even other generations um backgrounds even other generations um one thing I think is so wild is our one thing I think is so wild is our one thing I think is so wild is our church today more than half are older church today more than half are older church today more than half are older than us than us than us >> which is completely antithetical to the >> which is completely antithetical to the >> which is completely antithetical to the way I brought was brought up, right? Um way I brought was brought up, right? Um way I brought was brought up, right? Um but every person that came in, the first but every person that came in, the first but every person that came in, the first 10 at least, were really led by God. So,

10 at least, were really led by God. So, 10 at least, were really led by God. So, for example, what that looks like on a for example, what that looks like on a for example, what that looks like on a practical level, um one of my friends, practical level, um one of my friends, practical level, um one of my friends, she um invited me to come worship on her she um invited me to come worship on her she um invited me to come worship on her rooftop. This is during the pandemic um rooftop. This is during the pandemic um rooftop. This is during the pandemic um in New York City in Manhattan um on a in New York City in Manhattan um on a in New York City in Manhattan um on a Wednesday night with just her friends. Wednesday night with just her friends. Wednesday night with just her friends. And I remember thinking, I don't want to And I remember thinking, I don't want to And I remember thinking, I don't want to do that because it's in Manhattan and I do that because it's in Manhattan and I do that because it's in Manhattan and I don't want to cross the bridge right don't want to cross the bridge right don't want to cross the bridge right now, right? And um I just feel like, now, right? And um I just feel like, now, right? And um I just feel like, well, that's not where I'm trying to well, that's not where I'm trying to well, that's not where I'm trying to plant my church, right? And so I thought plant my church, right? And so I thought plant my church, right? And so I thought it was just irrelevant, but I felt this it was just irrelevant, but I felt this it was just irrelevant, but I felt this uncction from the Holy Spirit. uncction from the Holy Spirit. uncction from the Holy Spirit. >> Go say yes. And so I go and see my >> Go say yes. And so I go and see my >> Go say yes. And so I go and see my friend and meet all her friends. And the friend and meet all her friends. And the friend and meet all her friends. And the two people that I interacted with that two people that I interacted with that two people that I interacted with that day were from New Jersey. One of which day were from New Jersey. One of which day were from New Jersey. One of which um joined our church plant the next day um joined our church plant the next day um joined our church plant the next day because he said as he we were conversing because he said as he we were conversing because he said as he we were conversing he said I don't know why and this is him he said I don't know why and this is him he said I don't know why and this is him not knowing anything of where I'm coming not knowing anything of where I'm coming not knowing anything of where I'm coming from or my context. He said I don't know from or my context. He said I don't know from or my context. He said I don't know why but I feel like the Lord is asking why but I feel like the Lord is asking why but I feel like the Lord is asking me to ask you about your church.

me to ask you about your church. me to ask you about your church. >> He didn't even know I was a church >> He didn't even know I was a church >> He didn't even know I was a church planter. And so I told him our story and planter. And so I told him our story and planter. And so I told him our story and he just joined our team the the next he just joined our team the the next he just joined our team the the next day. day. day. >> So you did something really significant >> So you did something really significant >> So you did something really significant there. You turned there. You turned there. You turned >> to God with your complaints rather than >> to God with your complaints rather than >> to God with your complaints rather than sitting around in a strategy meeting sitting around in a strategy meeting sitting around in a strategy meeting going going going >> we don't know anybody. This is the wrong >> we don't know anybody. This is the wrong >> we don't know anybody. This is the wrong county. We should be across the river county. We should be across the river county. We should be across the river across the country across the country across the country >> somewhere else >> somewhere else >> somewhere else >> which is really interesting. And then >> which is really interesting. And then >> which is really interesting. And then you did launch. So pick up the you did launch. So pick up the you did launch. So pick up the narrative. How did that happen? 2020 was narrative. How did that happen? 2020 was narrative. How did that happen? 2020 was >> uh total recalibration. Absolutely. >> uh total recalibration. Absolutely. >> uh total recalibration. Absolutely. >> And then you eventually launched a >> And then you eventually launched a >> And then you eventually launched a couple years later. couple years later. couple years later. >> Yes. So it was a very slow slow on-ramp >> Yes. So it was a very slow slow on-ramp >> Yes. So it was a very slow slow on-ramp because I mean not to trigger anyone's because I mean not to trigger anyone's because I mean not to trigger anyone's memory but during the next 2 years you memory but during the next 2 years you memory but during the next 2 years you know we would have spikes of co and then know we would have spikes of co and then know we would have spikes of co and then every everyone will have to be locked in every everyone will have to be locked in every everyone will have to be locked in if if they even were in contact with if if they even were in contact with if if they even were in contact with somebody. somebody. somebody. >> Toronto and and uh and New York very >> Toronto and and uh and New York very >> Toronto and and uh and New York very similar in lockdown strategy. So it was similar in lockdown strategy. So it was similar in lockdown strategy. So it was almost for us it was 18 months almost for us it was 18 months almost for us it was 18 months >> where we basically you could have opened >> where we basically you could have opened >> where we basically you could have opened but then you were closed the next but then you were closed the next but then you were closed the next Sunday.

Sunday. Sunday. >> So we just held out for 18 months and >> So we just held out for 18 months and >> So we just held out for 18 months and open since then. open since then. open since then. >> But yeah it was very it was a strange >> But yeah it was very it was a strange >> But yeah it was very it was a strange time. time. time. >> It was and it lasted a long time. I mean >> It was and it lasted a long time. I mean >> It was and it lasted a long time. I mean everything New York City was doing our everything New York City was doing our everything New York City was doing our county was doing. And so um even up county was doing. And so um even up county was doing. And so um even up until a month before launch half our until a month before launch half our until a month before launch half our team got CO team got CO team got CO >> so got tested with CO. So, not even >> so got tested with CO. So, not even >> so got tested with CO. So, not even we're in contact with someone with we're in contact with someone with we're in contact with someone with COVID, got tested with CO. And so, even COVID, got tested with CO. And so, even COVID, got tested with CO. And so, even to that point, my husband and I had to to that point, my husband and I had to to that point, my husband and I had to go back to the drawing board and we're go back to the drawing board and we're go back to the drawing board and we're wondering, can we even do this? Is this wondering, can we even do this? Is this wondering, can we even do this? Is this even possible? Not only that, but we even possible? Not only that, but we even possible? Not only that, but we couldn't even find a full worship team. couldn't even find a full worship team. couldn't even find a full worship team. Um, and what's actually really beautiful Um, and what's actually really beautiful Um, and what's actually really beautiful about this story, um, and it's something about this story, um, and it's something about this story, um, and it's something that we chuckle about to this day cuz that we chuckle about to this day cuz that we chuckle about to this day cuz it's so beautiful. So God um is we it's so beautiful. So God um is we it's so beautiful. So God um is we didn't have a worship leader. We could didn't have a worship leader. We could didn't have a worship leader. We could not find one, which is actually kind of not find one, which is actually kind of not find one, which is actually kind of a rare situation, you know, and to the a rare situation, you know, and to the a rare situation, you know, and to the point where I'm like, Lord, where are point where I'm like, Lord, where are point where I'm like, Lord, where are all the where where are all the all the where where are all the all the where where are all the worshippers? Where the worship leaders?

worshippers? Where the worship leaders? worshippers? Where the worship leaders? >> Yeah, you're not that far from Broadway, >> Yeah, you're not that far from Broadway, >> Yeah, you're not that far from Broadway, >> right? And so it was kind of a weird >> right? And so it was kind of a weird >> right? And so it was kind of a weird situation until finally a member of our situation until finally a member of our situation until finally a member of our team who was a a former nun in a convent team who was a a former nun in a convent team who was a a former nun in a convent um um in from the Catholic church, she um um in from the Catholic church, she um um in from the Catholic church, she said, "Well, I know how to play the said, "Well, I know how to play the said, "Well, I know how to play the guitar and I have led worship for the guitar and I have led worship for the guitar and I have led worship for the Catholic schools before." And so she had Catholic schools before." And so she had Catholic schools before." And so she had to learn all our contemporary Christian to learn all our contemporary Christian to learn all our contemporary Christian music like within two weeks. and we music like within two weeks. and we music like within two weeks. and we launched with her and it was just her launched with her and it was just her launched with her and it was just her and me um in the AMC theater. We didn't and me um in the AMC theater. We didn't and me um in the AMC theater. We didn't even have enough lights. Um but it's so even have enough lights. Um but it's so even have enough lights. Um but it's so interesting because through that interesting because through that interesting because through that although it was there was a lot where we although it was there was a lot where we although it was there was a lot where we could say oh we were lacking but we were could say oh we were lacking but we were could say oh we were lacking but we were so rich in God's assurance at by the so rich in God's assurance at by the so rich in God's assurance at by the time of launch that God was in this time of launch that God was in this time of launch that God was in this thing. So even um when we felt like okay thing. So even um when we felt like okay thing. So even um when we felt like okay we felt like a couple months before we felt like a couple months before we felt like a couple months before launch we felt like this is time for launch we felt like this is time for launch we felt like this is time for preview preview services like it's time preview preview services like it's time preview preview services like it's time um and I remember my husband coming out um and I remember my husband coming out um and I remember my husband coming out of his prayer closet saying I feel like of his prayer closet saying I feel like of his prayer closet saying I feel like the Lord is saying it's time to do the Lord is saying it's time to do the Lord is saying it's time to do preview services and I remember preview services and I remember preview services and I remember chuckling like okay with who and with chuckling like okay with who and with chuckling like okay with who and with what we had a microphone stand with no what we had a microphone stand with no what we had a microphone stand with no microphone that's all we had you know microphone that's all we had you know microphone that's all we had you know and I'm like okay um and like I said we and I'm like okay um and like I said we and I'm like okay um and like I said we couldn't find a worship leader we couldn't find a worship leader we couldn't find a worship leader we couldn't find this and that. We just couldn't find this and that. We just couldn't find this and that. We just rented out a hotel uh venue and we put

rented out a hotel uh venue and we put rented out a hotel uh venue and we put it out on Instagram and Facebook. Hey, it out on Instagram and Facebook. Hey, it out on Instagram and Facebook. Hey, we're going to have this service. Please we're going to have this service. Please we're going to have this service. Please join us. All are welcome. And about a join us. All are welcome. And about a join us. All are welcome. And about a week before this preview service, a week before this preview service, a week before this preview service, a church from Brooklyn, well actually church from Brooklyn, well actually church from Brooklyn, well actually Manhattan, but then they had a campus in Manhattan, but then they had a campus in Manhattan, but then they had a campus in Brooklyn. Um they called us and they Brooklyn. Um they called us and they Brooklyn. Um they called us and they said, "Um, do you guys need stuff?" And said, "Um, do you guys need stuff?" And said, "Um, do you guys need stuff?" And my husband was like, "We need my husband was like, "We need my husband was like, "We need everything." And so the in a couple days everything." And so the in a couple days everything." And so the in a couple days we had two U-Hauls come in to our we had two U-Hauls come in to our we had two U-Hauls come in to our driveway um filled with about $100,000 driveway um filled with about $100,000 driveway um filled with about $100,000 worth of equipment that we're still worth of equipment that we're still worth of equipment that we're still using to this day. And it was everything using to this day. And it was everything using to this day. And it was everything that we needed, not just for a service, that we needed, not just for a service, that we needed, not just for a service, but for a whole church. Um sound but for a whole church. Um sound but for a whole church. Um sound equipment, everything. it. It's equipment, everything. it. It's equipment, everything. it. It's children's equipment, um, laptops, children's equipment, um, laptops, children's equipment, um, laptops, iPads, everything. Um, they were they iPads, everything. Um, they were they iPads, everything. Um, they were they were going to just kind of sell it, but were going to just kind of sell it, but were going to just kind of sell it, but they were like, "Hey, we just feel led they were like, "Hey, we just feel led they were like, "Hey, we just feel led to give this to you." And so it it was to give this to you." And so it it was to give this to you." And so it it was just kind of God's nudge, like, "Hey, just kind of God's nudge, like, "Hey, just kind of God's nudge, like, "Hey, I'm in this. I I know it feels small, I'm in this. I I know it feels small, I'm in this. I I know it feels small, and I know it feels empty, but I'm in and I know it feels empty, but I'm in and I know it feels empty, but I'm in this." And so, we rented out the AMC this." And so, we rented out the AMC this." And so, we rented out the AMC theater for lunch, and it was just me theater for lunch, and it was just me theater for lunch, and it was just me and this young lady. Um, bless her and this young lady. Um, bless her and this young lady. Um, bless her heart, she was wonderful. And um we we heart, she was wonderful. And um we we heart, she was wonderful. And um we we led service at launch in this very dark led service at launch in this very dark led service at launch in this very dark theater cuz you know we we didn't know theater cuz you know we we didn't know theater cuz you know we we didn't know how to light it up at that time you know how to light it up at that time you know how to light it up at that time you know and but what's so crazy is that people

and but what's so crazy is that people and but what's so crazy is that people walked out of that service and a lot of walked out of that service and a lot of walked out of that service and a lot of the testimonies were I've never the testimonies were I've never the testimonies were I've never experienced something so stripped down experienced something so stripped down experienced something so stripped down like that but I felt God and I felt the like that but I felt God and I felt the like that but I felt God and I felt the presence of God and I want to come back presence of God and I want to come back presence of God and I want to come back because of that. And that was the start because of that. And that was the start because of that. And that was the start of our church. of our church. of our church. >> So, we may come back to the story of >> So, we may come back to the story of >> So, we may come back to the story of launching your church or where it is launching your church or where it is launching your church or where it is today in a little bit, but you've been today in a little bit, but you've been today in a little bit, but you've been pretty open about um having anxiety and pretty open about um having anxiety and pretty open about um having anxiety and depression depression depression >> as a part of your life. And if I read >> as a part of your life. And if I read >> as a part of your life. And if I read correctly, it seems like that even might correctly, it seems like that even might correctly, it seems like that even might be genetic be genetic be genetic >> in your case. >> in your case. >> in your case. >> So, you know, I know in my own case, I'm >> So, you know, I know in my own case, I'm >> So, you know, I know in my own case, I'm not wired the same way. not wired the same way. not wired the same way. don't have I've been depressed for small don't have I've been depressed for small don't have I've been depressed for small periods, but it's not part of my my periods, but it's not part of my my periods, but it's not part of my my default or to the best of my knowledge default or to the best of my knowledge default or to the best of my knowledge my DNA. my DNA. my DNA. >> But like every leader gets discouraged. >> But like every leader gets discouraged. >> But like every leader gets discouraged. I've been discouraged. I've wanted to I've been discouraged. I've wanted to I've been discouraged. I've wanted to quit. quit. quit. >> How did that play out >> How did that play out >> How did that play out >> in this difficult few years? Because >> in this difficult few years? Because >> in this difficult few years? Because >> you know, it's hard enough on its own, >> you know, it's hard enough on its own, >> you know, it's hard enough on its own, but if you have that challenge of being but if you have that challenge of being but if you have that challenge of being wired toward depression and anxiety, wired toward depression and anxiety, wired toward depression and anxiety, >> this is the perfect storm. this is like >> this is the perfect storm. this is like >> this is the perfect storm. this is like let's bring it all on you at once. So let's bring it all on you at once. So let's bring it all on you at once. So how did you and when the reason I'm how did you and when the reason I'm how did you and when the reason I'm asking the question I'm I'm curious asking the question I'm I'm curious asking the question I'm I'm curious about your answer but about your answer but about your answer but >> there's a meaningful percentage of >> there's a meaningful percentage of >> there's a meaningful percentage of people watching listening to this people watching listening to this people watching listening to this >> who are wired the same way.

>> who are wired the same way. >> who are wired the same way. >> So do you mind talking about that? Let's >> So do you mind talking about that? Let's >> So do you mind talking about that? Let's let's go back a little bit further. When let's go back a little bit further. When let's go back a little bit further. When did you first realize that you might be did you first realize that you might be did you first realize that you might be >> wired toward depression andor anxiety? >> wired toward depression andor anxiety? >> wired toward depression andor anxiety? Um well I always kind of felt it you Um well I always kind of felt it you Um well I always kind of felt it you know so generally when I look back on um know so generally when I look back on um know so generally when I look back on um childhood there was always just like an childhood there was always just like an childhood there was always just like an overcast overcast overcast >> and I guess as I grew in self-awareness >> and I guess as I grew in self-awareness >> and I guess as I grew in self-awareness realizing wait not everybody feels this realizing wait not everybody feels this realizing wait not everybody feels this way and later having gone through some way and later having gone through some way and later having gone through some blood panels really doing some research blood panels really doing some research blood panels really doing some research um with the help of doctors realizing um with the help of doctors realizing um with the help of doctors realizing yeah I have two of two of the genetic yeah I have two of two of the genetic yeah I have two of two of the genetic mutations that make be more prone to mutations that make be more prone to mutations that make be more prone to anxiety and depression. anxiety and depression. anxiety and depression. >> I didn't know it could be I heard it can >> I didn't know it could be I heard it can >> I didn't know it could be I heard it can be like wired in, but I I didn't realize be like wired in, but I I didn't realize be like wired in, but I I didn't realize there was that level of biological there was that level of biological there was that level of biological testing to show that. testing to show that. testing to show that. >> Oh, yeah. To the point where multiple >> Oh, yeah. To the point where multiple >> Oh, yeah. To the point where multiple doctors when they looked at my blood doctors when they looked at my blood doctors when they looked at my blood tests, they looked at me and they go, tests, they looked at me and they go, tests, they looked at me and they go, "You're not crazy. "You're not crazy. "You're not crazy. >> I hope you know that you're not crazy.

>> I hope you know that you're not crazy. >> I hope you know that you're not crazy. That this is um not your fault." And oh That this is um not your fault." And oh That this is um not your fault." And oh my goodness, it set me free. Because you my goodness, it set me free. Because you my goodness, it set me free. Because you know in the Christian world when we know in the Christian world when we know in the Christian world when we think oh joy is the fruit of the Holy think oh joy is the fruit of the Holy think oh joy is the fruit of the Holy Spirit Spirit Spirit >> right or we'll just pray this out. >> right or we'll just pray this out. >> right or we'll just pray this out. >> Yeah. Right. And you know what I believe >> Yeah. Right. And you know what I believe >> Yeah. Right. And you know what I believe that that joy is the fruit of the Holy that that joy is the fruit of the Holy that that joy is the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Like I I believe that God heals. Spirit. Like I I believe that God heals. Spirit. Like I I believe that God heals. Not there's not a doubt in my mind that Not there's not a doubt in my mind that Not there's not a doubt in my mind that God does not he or that that God heals. God does not he or that that God heals. God does not he or that that God heals. Like I know God heals. Um but also Like I know God heals. Um but also Like I know God heals. Um but also acknowledging acknowledging acknowledging that this is the present day scenario that this is the present day scenario that this is the present day scenario and how God heals, how God works through and how God heals, how God works through and how God heals, how God works through it. It could be different for some it. It could be different for some it. It could be different for some people. And I think just acknowledging, people. And I think just acknowledging, people. And I think just acknowledging, okay, like some people were were born okay, like some people were were born okay, like some people were were born with certain um handicaps, right? Some with certain um handicaps, right? Some with certain um handicaps, right? Some people were born with certain things and people were born with certain things and people were born with certain things and just acknowledging, okay, this is this just acknowledging, okay, this is this just acknowledging, okay, this is this is my challenge, right? And during that is my challenge, right? And during that is my challenge, right? And during that time um I had to be very aware of um my time um I had to be very aware of um my time um I had to be very aware of um my body, right? Um even so with this body, right? Um even so with this body, right? Um even so with this genetic mutation um the way I metabolize genetic mutation um the way I metabolize genetic mutation um the way I metabolize um certain things like methylolates and um certain things like methylolates and um certain things like methylolates and things like that is it's different. And things like that is it's different. And things like that is it's different. And so making sure I have the right so making sure I have the right so making sure I have the right supplements, making sure I have supplements, making sure I have supplements, making sure I have sunlight, making sure that I run, that sunlight, making sure that I run, that sunlight, making sure that I run, that I'm I'm exercising. So these are things I'm I'm exercising. So these are things I'm I'm exercising. So these are things that I'm doing to steward my present day that I'm doing to steward my present day that I'm doing to steward my present day situation. Yeah.

situation. Yeah. situation. Yeah. >> Um but yet >> Um but yet >> Um but yet >> I also believe that the Holy Spirit um >> I also believe that the Holy Spirit um >> I also believe that the Holy Spirit um does allow me to experience his fruit as does allow me to experience his fruit as does allow me to experience his fruit as well, you know, on top of that. So not well, you know, on top of that. So not well, you know, on top of that. So not neglecting neglecting neglecting um the fact that hey, these are the um the fact that hey, these are the um the fact that hey, these are the cards that I've been dealt that I've cards that I've been dealt that I've cards that I've been dealt that I've been dealt been dealt been dealt >> um from birth and just acknowledging >> um from birth and just acknowledging >> um from birth and just acknowledging that and not negating reality, right? that and not negating reality, right? that and not negating reality, right? But at the same time, not negating But at the same time, not negating But at the same time, not negating faith. And I think what was huge for me faith. And I think what was huge for me faith. And I think what was huge for me was um you know when a doctor tells you was um you know when a doctor tells you was um you know when a doctor tells you you this is your destiny like this is you this is your destiny like this is you this is your destiny like this is this is your lot in life it's easy to this is your lot in life it's easy to this is your lot in life it's easy to identify with it like I am identify with it like I am identify with it like I am >> make that part of your identity >> make that part of your identity >> make that part of your identity >> right like this is my anxiety my >> right like this is my anxiety my >> right like this is my anxiety my depression this is mine to hold you know depression this is mine to hold you know depression this is mine to hold you know but it's like this if you live in but it's like this if you live in but it's like this if you live in partnership with the Holy Spirit and you partnership with the Holy Spirit and you partnership with the Holy Spirit and you live in step with the Holy Spirit um live in step with the Holy Spirit um live in step with the Holy Spirit um let's say Like Carrie, you and I were in let's say Like Carrie, you and I were in let's say Like Carrie, you and I were in the room and I were to be like, um, the room and I were to be like, um, the room and I were to be like, um, >> uh, I need like an actual thought leader >> uh, I need like an actual thought leader >> uh, I need like an actual thought leader here.

here. here. >> I need like an actual podcaster here. >> I need like an actual podcaster here. >> I need like an actual podcaster here. Like an actual author, please. Like I, Like an actual author, please. Like I, Like an actual author, please. Like I, you know what I mean? Like I need you know what I mean? Like I need you know what I mean? Like I need >> I'd like that too, actually. That'd be >> I'd like that too, actually. That'd be >> I'd like that too, actually. That'd be really great. really great. really great. >> Right. Right. So, and like, but then, >> Right. Right. So, and like, but then, >> Right. Right. So, and like, but then, you know, Carrie, you would probably you know, Carrie, you would probably you know, Carrie, you would probably feel like, well, I'm here, right? I'm feel like, well, I'm here, right? I'm feel like, well, I'm here, right? I'm actually here, right? You know, like why actually here, right? You know, like why actually here, right? You know, like why don't you look why don't we have a don't you look why don't we have a don't you look why don't we have a conversation? And I feel like sometimes conversation? And I feel like sometimes conversation? And I feel like sometimes we treat the Holy Spirit like that. we treat the Holy Spirit like that. we treat the Holy Spirit like that. >> Like, oh, I don't have peace. I don't >> Like, oh, I don't have peace. I don't >> Like, oh, I don't have peace. I don't have joy. I'm a depressed person. I'm an have joy. I'm a depressed person. I'm an have joy. I'm a depressed person. I'm an anxious person. This is who I am. If I anxious person. This is who I am. If I anxious person. This is who I am. If I keep talking like that, then I'm kind of keep talking like that, then I'm kind of keep talking like that, then I'm kind of negating negating negating um who the Holy Spirit is to me. um who the Holy Spirit is to me. um who the Holy Spirit is to me. >> So, how do you experience that then when >> So, how do you experience that then when >> So, how do you experience that then when let's say it's not a good day? let's say it's not a good day? let's say it's not a good day? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Or a good season or good week. Pick a >> Or a good season or good week. Pick a >> Or a good season or good week. Pick a pick a length of time. pick a length of time. pick a length of time. How do you invite the Holy Spirit into How do you invite the Holy Spirit into How do you invite the Holy Spirit into that? And then how does that make a that? And then how does that make a that? And then how does that make a difference? If that's even the right difference? If that's even the right difference? If that's even the right question. question. question. >> Yeah. I think I have um one of those >> Yeah. I think I have um one of those >> Yeah. I think I have um one of those sanctified pauses, right, where when I'm sanctified pauses, right, where when I'm sanctified pauses, right, where when I'm start to get overwhelmed, and we all start to get overwhelmed, and we all start to get overwhelmed, and we all know what that feels like when you start know what that feels like when you start know what that feels like when you start to spiral, to spiral, to spiral, >> just taking a moment >> just taking a moment >> just taking a moment >> and just allowing that space for the >> and just allowing that space for the >> and just allowing that space for the Holy Spirit. And when I say space, I Holy Spirit. And when I say space, I Holy Spirit. And when I say space, I mean pause and choosing not to think for mean pause and choosing not to think for mean pause and choosing not to think for just a second.

just a second. just a second. >> Um I mean, didn't it not say in Psalm 1, >> Um I mean, didn't it not say in Psalm 1, >> Um I mean, didn't it not say in Psalm 1, um that those who delight in the law of um that those who delight in the law of um that those who delight in the law of the Lord and those who meditate on on the Lord and those who meditate on on the Lord and those who meditate on on his words, right? U meditation is an his words, right? U meditation is an his words, right? U meditation is an assault towards all the lies, all the assault towards all the lies, all the assault towards all the lies, all the worries, all the um all the things that worries, all the um all the things that worries, all the um all the things that are going on within you. It's assault are going on within you. It's assault are going on within you. It's assault towards the storm. It's the assault towards the storm. It's the assault towards the storm. It's the assault assault towards the panic. It's assault towards the panic. It's assault towards the panic. It's extremely active and aggressive. And so extremely active and aggressive. And so extremely active and aggressive. And so just choosing not to think my thoughts just choosing not to think my thoughts just choosing not to think my thoughts and asking Holy Spirit, am did you give and asking Holy Spirit, am did you give and asking Holy Spirit, am did you give me permission to go here? me permission to go here? me permission to go here? Do I even have permission from you to Do I even have permission from you to Do I even have permission from you to ruminate like this? ruminate like this? ruminate like this? >> Cuz this rumination, it feels almost >> Cuz this rumination, it feels almost >> Cuz this rumination, it feels almost righteous. It feels almost wise to dwell righteous. It feels almost wise to dwell righteous. It feels almost wise to dwell on it. It feels wise to stay here. It on it. It feels wise to stay here. It on it. It feels wise to stay here. It feels almost um like I'm looking out for feels almost um like I'm looking out for feels almost um like I'm looking out for myself to think about these things. But myself to think about these things. But myself to think about these things. But I'm asking you because I don't trust my I'm asking you because I don't trust my I'm asking you because I don't trust my thoughts right now. I'm asking you, what thoughts right now. I'm asking you, what thoughts right now. I'm asking you, what are your thoughts? What's your are your thoughts? What's your are your thoughts? What's your perspective? Am I allowed to go here?

perspective? Am I allowed to go here? perspective? Am I allowed to go here? And often times, Holy Spirit says no. Or And often times, Holy Spirit says no. Or And often times, Holy Spirit says no. Or if I feel nothing, if I feel like if I feel nothing, if I feel like if I feel nothing, if I feel like I I'm not getting anything because the I I'm not getting anything because the I I'm not getting anything because the storm within is so loud, then I go, storm within is so loud, then I go, storm within is so loud, then I go, "Okay, then what are your words? What "Okay, then what are your words? What "Okay, then what are your words? What are what are your words?" And I open up are what are your words?" And I open up are what are your words?" And I open up scripture and I just think about that. I scripture and I just think about that. I scripture and I just think about that. I I choose not to think about what I feel I choose not to think about what I feel I choose not to think about what I feel so tempted to think about. Fear is so so tempted to think about. Fear is so so tempted to think about. Fear is so tempting. Anxiety is so tempting. And I tempting. Anxiety is so tempting. And I tempting. Anxiety is so tempting. And I think we have to acknowledge that for think we have to acknowledge that for think we have to acknowledge that for what it is. you know, why does the why what it is. you know, why does the why what it is. you know, why does the why does Jesus keep saying fear not? You does Jesus keep saying fear not? You does Jesus keep saying fear not? You know, it's a temptation to fear, right? know, it's a temptation to fear, right? know, it's a temptation to fear, right? Because it feels righteous. It feels Because it feels righteous. It feels Because it feels righteous. It feels wise, right? And so, I think just wise, right? And so, I think just wise, right? And so, I think just choosing not to trust in my thoughts and choosing not to trust in my thoughts and choosing not to trust in my thoughts and and um casting my thoughts and making and um casting my thoughts and making and um casting my thoughts and making making us submit to Jesus Christ and um making us submit to Jesus Christ and um making us submit to Jesus Christ and um choosing to meditate on his word and choosing to meditate on his word and choosing to meditate on his word and allowing Holy Spirit to do the rest allowing Holy Spirit to do the rest allowing Holy Spirit to do the rest >> because I cannot create my own peace. I >> because I cannot create my own peace. I >> because I cannot create my own peace. I cannot create my own joy. I can and I cannot create my own joy. I can and I cannot create my own joy. I can and I don't sit there trying to create it. I don't sit there trying to create it. I don't sit there trying to create it. I just say, "Holy Spirit, create in me. Uh just say, "Holy Spirit, create in me. Uh just say, "Holy Spirit, create in me. Uh create in me a clean heart. Uh restore create in me a clean heart. Uh restore create in me a clean heart. Uh restore unto me the joy of your salvation."

unto me the joy of your salvation." unto me the joy of your salvation." Right? And then um and I just give him Right? And then um and I just give him Right? And then um and I just give him that space to create what I do not have. that space to create what I do not have. that space to create what I do not have. And sometimes I do have to move forward And sometimes I do have to move forward And sometimes I do have to move forward before I feel it. But that's where the before I feel it. But that's where the before I feel it. But that's where the faith comes in, right? And I think faith comes in, right? And I think faith comes in, right? And I think sometimes we're trying to bypass the sometimes we're trying to bypass the sometimes we're trying to bypass the mystery by needing to feel it before we mystery by needing to feel it before we mystery by needing to feel it before we move forward. Now I move forward when I move forward. Now I move forward when I move forward. Now I move forward when I need to trusting that God will create it need to trusting that God will create it need to trusting that God will create it in his time. in his time. in his time. >> So you're also a preacher and uh some of >> So you're also a preacher and uh some of >> So you're also a preacher and uh some of you know you think about Spurgeon who you know you think about Spurgeon who you know you think about Spurgeon who famously struggled with depression famously struggled with depression famously struggled with depression >> etc etc. Tell us a little bit about what >> etc etc. Tell us a little bit about what >> etc etc. Tell us a little bit about what you are learning. I want to I want to go you are learning. I want to I want to go you are learning. I want to I want to go in a couple of different directions but in a couple of different directions but in a couple of different directions but what are you learning about u mental what are you learning about u mental what are you learning about u mental health and preaching? health and preaching? health and preaching? Oo, Oo, Oo, watch out for your mental health if watch out for your mental health if watch out for your mental health if you're a preacher. you're a preacher. you're a preacher. Yeah. I mean, because, and I noticed Yeah. I mean, because, and I noticed Yeah. I mean, because, and I noticed this especially before you get up until this especially before you get up until this especially before you get up until the pulpit, the enemy will attack your the pulpit, the enemy will attack your the pulpit, the enemy will attack your mind. mind. mind. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And it's easy for preachers to either >> And it's easy for preachers to either >> And it's easy for preachers to either neglect that or to embrace it way too neglect that or to embrace it way too neglect that or to embrace it way too much where we feel like this is who I much where we feel like this is who I much where we feel like this is who I am, right? And this I am just a broken am, right? And this I am just a broken am, right? And this I am just a broken person. I mean, you're not wrong, but person. I mean, you're not wrong, but person. I mean, you're not wrong, but you're also a child of God. That's only you're also a child of God. That's only you're also a child of God. That's only half the truth, you know. And I think um half the truth, you know. And I think um half the truth, you know. And I think um we either neglect it or we embrace it so we either neglect it or we embrace it so we either neglect it or we embrace it so much to the point where we we start to much to the point where we we start to much to the point where we we start to coddle it too much, right? Um I think coddle it too much, right? Um I think coddle it too much, right? Um I think there are times when we need to just there are times when we need to just there are times when we need to just acknowledge like, oh, this is warfare.

acknowledge like, oh, this is warfare. acknowledge like, oh, this is warfare. And sometimes And sometimes And sometimes >> the best thing you could do is yeah, >> the best thing you could do is yeah, >> the best thing you could do is yeah, actually move forward and ignore it, actually move forward and ignore it, actually move forward and ignore it, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> You know, and and not bite, right? um or >> You know, and and not bite, right? um or >> You know, and and not bite, right? um or sometimes, yeah, it takes a moment to to sometimes, yeah, it takes a moment to to sometimes, yeah, it takes a moment to to process maybe this is a wound that God process maybe this is a wound that God process maybe this is a wound that God is highlighting. And so I do think of it is highlighting. And so I do think of it is highlighting. And so I do think of it as a case by case situation. But um I as a case by case situation. But um I as a case by case situation. But um I think if you are a preacher to have your think if you are a preacher to have your think if you are a preacher to have your flags up, you know, and make sure that flags up, you know, and make sure that flags up, you know, and make sure that you are guarding what's in your mind. Um you are guarding what's in your mind. Um you are guarding what's in your mind. Um I think that's one thing that's I think that's one thing that's I think that's one thing that's interesting about social media and this interesting about social media and this interesting about social media and this age of social media or what people call age of social media or what people call age of social media or what people call interest media these days. Um because interest media these days. Um because interest media these days. Um because now we're at a season in life for the now we're at a season in life for the now we're at a season in life for the first time perhaps where we're not first time perhaps where we're not first time perhaps where we're not engaging in what goes in our brain like engaging in what goes in our brain like engaging in what goes in our brain like we're letting the algorithm determine we're letting the algorithm determine we're letting the algorithm determine what's the content of of our brains. what's the content of of our brains. what's the content of of our brains. >> Um whereas 20 years ago this was not the >> Um whereas 20 years ago this was not the >> Um whereas 20 years ago this was not the case. So I think um in this age where case. So I think um in this age where case. So I think um in this age where social media and preaching is so social media and preaching is so social media and preaching is so intertwined now I think um just being intertwined now I think um just being intertwined now I think um just being very mindful you know when you're very mindful you know when you're very mindful you know when you're preaching are you preaching in the preaching are you preaching in the preaching are you preaching in the summation of all the sound bites that summation of all the sound bites that summation of all the sound bites that you've heard or is it really the fruit you've heard or is it really the fruit you've heard or is it really the fruit of the Holy Spirit and is it the work of of the Holy Spirit and is it the work of of the Holy Spirit and is it the work of God that's coming out of you and I think God that's coming out of you and I think God that's coming out of you and I think um it's something to think about. It's a um it's something to think about. It's a um it's something to think about. It's a whole another conversation. What is your whole another conversation. What is your whole another conversation. What is your preparation process like as a preacher?

preparation process like as a preacher? preparation process like as a preacher? >> You know, um I don't have a formula. >> You know, um I don't have a formula. >> You know, um I don't have a formula. >> Um and that's also because I am a little >> Um and that's also because I am a little >> Um and that's also because I am a little chaotic by nature, you know. Um so it's chaotic by nature, you know. Um so it's chaotic by nature, you know. Um so it's so funny cuz people ask me like what are so funny cuz people ask me like what are so funny cuz people ask me like what are your rhythms? Like what are your your rhythms? Like what are your your rhythms? Like what are your rituals? Whatever you And um and when I rituals? Whatever you And um and when I rituals? Whatever you And um and when I think about it, my rhythm is I have no think about it, my rhythm is I have no think about it, my rhythm is I have no rhythm, rhythm, rhythm, >> right? Okay. So you have like a set wake >> right? Okay. So you have like a set wake >> right? Okay. So you have like a set wake time, set study times, anything like time, set study times, anything like time, set study times, anything like that. that. that. >> Yeah. I mean, I study and I, you know, >> Yeah. I mean, I study and I, you know, >> Yeah. I mean, I study and I, you know, and I and I do all that, but there's no and I and I do all that, but there's no and I and I do all that, but there's no rhythm to it. And I think some of my rhythm to it. And I think some of my rhythm to it. And I think some of my best sermons actually came best sermons actually came best sermons actually came >> when like I'm like brushing my teeth and >> when like I'm like brushing my teeth and >> when like I'm like brushing my teeth and I feel like God is highlighting I feel like God is highlighting I feel like God is highlighting something. something. something. >> Got the download. >> Got the download. >> Got the download. >> Yeah. You get the download. Um, and I >> Yeah. You get the download. Um, and I >> Yeah. You get the download. Um, and I feel like, okay, for which service is feel like, okay, for which service is feel like, okay, for which service is this? For which event is this? You know, this? For which event is this? You know, this? For which event is this? You know, and I feel like, oh, it's for next and I feel like, oh, it's for next and I feel like, oh, it's for next month, it's for it's for this event. And month, it's for it's for this event. And month, it's for it's for this event. And so I would say when people ask about so I would say when people ask about so I would say when people ask about sermon prepping, I'm not I'm never sermon prepping, I'm not I'm never sermon prepping, I'm not I'm never stopping sermon prepping. It's an stopping sermon prepping. It's an stopping sermon prepping. It's an ongoing thing. You know, I think just ongoing thing. You know, I think just ongoing thing. You know, I think just being available for the Holy Spirit um being available for the Holy Spirit um being available for the Holy Spirit um and letting Holy Spirit download when he and letting Holy Spirit download when he and letting Holy Spirit download when he wants um is a big thing. And also just wants um is a big thing. And also just wants um is a big thing. And also just making sure that I'm doing my due making sure that I'm doing my due making sure that I'm doing my due diligence and studying and make sure diligence and studying and make sure diligence and studying and make sure making sure that I have the right making sure that I have the right making sure that I have the right resources and and all that. That resources and and all that. That resources and and all that. That definitely comes into play as well.

definitely comes into play as well. definitely comes into play as well. You're also known for your You're also known for your You're also known for your vulnerability. Where is the line on vulnerability. Where is the line on vulnerability. Where is the line on vulnerability in preaching for you? I vulnerability in preaching for you? I vulnerability in preaching for you? I think it's different for everybody. think it's different for everybody. think it's different for everybody. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But where what what are you learning >> But where what what are you learning >> But where what what are you learning about vulnerability and sharing your about vulnerability and sharing your about vulnerability and sharing your story in the pulpit or when you're story in the pulpit or when you're story in the pulpit or when you're speaking? speaking? speaking? >> Yeah. Um >> Yeah. Um >> Yeah. Um >> Yeah. I mean I didn't know I was known >> Yeah. I mean I didn't know I was known >> Yeah. I mean I didn't know I was known for vulnerability but you know but I for vulnerability but you know but I for vulnerability but you know but I would say would say would say >> well talking about your depression and >> well talking about your depression and >> well talking about your depression and it being genetic like that's it being genetic like that's it being genetic like that's >> not every a lot of people would keep >> not every a lot of people would keep >> not every a lot of people would keep that quiet still even today that quiet still even today that quiet still even today >> right for sure you know I would say when >> right for sure you know I would say when >> right for sure you know I would say when I feel like it's of service to people I feel like it's of service to people I feel like it's of service to people you know when I feel like if this serves you know when I feel like if this serves you know when I feel like if this serves you um and making sure that it's also you um and making sure that it's also you um and making sure that it's also not just serving me you know that it's not just serving me you know that it's not just serving me you know that it's not just me um doing it in a compulsive not just me um doing it in a compulsive not just me um doing it in a compulsive way out of um the need to prove way out of um the need to prove way out of um the need to prove something to myself or maybe even like something to myself or maybe even like something to myself or maybe even like this compulsive desire to prove this compulsive desire to prove this compulsive desire to prove something to God, you know, but making something to God, you know, but making something to God, you know, but making sure that my posture is will this serve sure that my posture is will this serve sure that my posture is will this serve the people that I'm that I'm with? And the people that I'm that I'm with? And the people that I'm that I'm with? And if so, Holy Spirit, may you use it for if so, Holy Spirit, may you use it for if so, Holy Spirit, may you use it for your glory?

your glory? your glory? >> How do you know if you've preached well? >> How do you know if you've preached well? >> How do you know if you've preached well? I think that's a challenge for a lot of I think that's a challenge for a lot of I think that's a challenge for a lot of us. I think most preachers are depressed us. I think most preachers are depressed us. I think most preachers are depressed on Mondays. Oh yeah, on Mondays. Oh yeah, on Mondays. Oh yeah, >> it's adrenal, but it's also like, h, did >> it's adrenal, but it's also like, h, did >> it's adrenal, but it's also like, h, did I do a good job? Did I Or you think you I do a good job? Did I Or you think you I do a good job? Did I Or you think you did a great job and nobody responds. You did a great job and nobody responds. You did a great job and nobody responds. You think you did a bad job. think you did a bad job. think you did a bad job. >> How do you know that you've preached >> How do you know that you've preached >> How do you know that you've preached well? well? well? >> Oh, that's a great question. And you >> Oh, that's a great question. And you >> Oh, that's a great question. And you know what? Sometimes my flesh does take know what? Sometimes my flesh does take know what? Sometimes my flesh does take over and I'm like, "Oh man, that wasn't over and I'm like, "Oh man, that wasn't over and I'm like, "Oh man, that wasn't my best." my best." my best." >> But um I would say what I try to keep >> But um I would say what I try to keep >> But um I would say what I try to keep myself in check with is was I obedient, myself in check with is was I obedient, myself in check with is was I obedient, >> you know? Uh was I obedient to what he >> you know? Uh was I obedient to what he >> you know? Uh was I obedient to what he wanted me to say? Uh was I obedient even wanted me to say? Uh was I obedient even wanted me to say? Uh was I obedient even to his nudge, right? Um to his nudge, right? Um to his nudge, right? Um no amount of preparation, although no amount of preparation, although no amount of preparation, although preparation is good and um expected, but preparation is good and um expected, but preparation is good and um expected, but no amount of preparation can really no amount of preparation can really no amount of preparation can really produce what only Holy Spirit can do. produce what only Holy Spirit can do. produce what only Holy Spirit can do. And I think so for example if I go in And I think so for example if I go in And I think so for example if I go in with a perfectly outlined 30 minute with a perfectly outlined 30 minute with a perfectly outlined 30 minute sermon with a intro and conclusion that sermon with a intro and conclusion that sermon with a intro and conclusion that is u workshop worthy right and if I have is u workshop worthy right and if I have is u workshop worthy right and if I have all that but if I feel the uncction of all that but if I feel the uncction of all that but if I feel the uncction of the Holy Spirit saying no you got to the Holy Spirit saying no you got to the Holy Spirit saying no you got to this is what I want you to say and if this is what I want you to say and if this is what I want you to say and if I'm saying no I rather hold to this I'm saying no I rather hold to this I'm saying no I rather hold to this outline and I you know I rather just do outline and I you know I rather just do outline and I you know I rather just do that. Um, it's really a question of was that. Um, it's really a question of was that. Um, it's really a question of was I obedient to Jesus because I'm his I obedient to Jesus because I'm his I obedient to Jesus because I'm his messenger. I'm not my messenger. Right.

messenger. I'm not my messenger. Right. messenger. I'm not my messenger. Right. And so I think that's the metric that I And so I think that's the metric that I And so I think that's the metric that I like to hold myself to. like to hold myself to. like to hold myself to. >> I think there's a spectrum of >> I think there's a spectrum of >> I think there's a spectrum of overpreparation and underpreparation. overpreparation and underpreparation. overpreparation and underpreparation. You're right. You can totally You're right. You can totally You're right. You can totally overprepare overprepare overprepare >> and like no reliance on the Holy Spirit. >> and like no reliance on the Holy Spirit. >> and like no reliance on the Holy Spirit. Here are my points. Don't get in my way. Here are my points. Don't get in my way. Here are my points. Don't get in my way. I've got I've thought this through. I've got I've thought this through. I've got I've thought this through. >> Underprepared is Yeah, I didn't really >> Underprepared is Yeah, I didn't really >> Underprepared is Yeah, I didn't really work on it that hard. work on it that hard. work on it that hard. >> Totally. >> Totally. >> Totally. >> Uh, you better come through for me, God. >> Uh, you better come through for me, God. >> Uh, you better come through for me, God. Where in your mind Where in your mind Where in your mind >> do you fall? And then where do you think >> do you fall? And then where do you think >> do you fall? And then where do you think you should fall in terms of you should fall in terms of you should fall in terms of >> you know being adequately prepared >> you know being adequately prepared >> you know being adequately prepared >> but also um not being underprepared? >> but also um not being underprepared? >> but also um not being underprepared? >> Yes, that's a great question and I come >> Yes, that's a great question and I come >> Yes, that's a great question and I come from a very charismatic Pentecostal from a very charismatic Pentecostal from a very charismatic Pentecostal background background background >> where it's um where >> where it's um where >> where it's um where >> so what is the tendency there? the >> so what is the tendency there? the >> so what is the tendency there? the tendency, at least from my background tendency, at least from my background tendency, at least from my background and my upbringing, um, and this is not and my upbringing, um, and this is not and my upbringing, um, and this is not saying every one in in this house of saying every one in in this house of saying every one in in this house of thought is is like this, but from my thought is is like this, but from my thought is is like this, but from my upbringing, it was literally like be upbringing, it was literally like be upbringing, it was literally like be ready in season, out of season, and ready in season, out of season, and ready in season, out of season, and whether you're prepared or not, you whether you're prepared or not, you whether you're prepared or not, you better be ready better be ready better be ready >> um to be a a mouthpiece of the Holy >> um to be a a mouthpiece of the Holy >> um to be a a mouthpiece of the Holy Spirit and um and just allow him to use Spirit and um and just allow him to use Spirit and um and just allow him to use you, right? And um a lot of it is you, right? And um a lot of it is you, right? And um a lot of it is offscript and just being readily offscript and just being readily offscript and just being readily available to God. Very little emphasis available to God. Very little emphasis available to God. Very little emphasis on preparation. Um but you know being on preparation. Um but you know being on preparation. Um but you know being prepared spiritually if you will, right?

prepared spiritually if you will, right? prepared spiritually if you will, right? Um so I consider myself to be a bit of a Um so I consider myself to be a bit of a Um so I consider myself to be a bit of a spiritual mut like I've been everywhere spiritual mut like I've been everywhere spiritual mut like I've been everywhere and I've been trained in so many and I've been trained in so many and I've been trained in so many different spiritual disciplines. you different spiritual disciplines. you different spiritual disciplines. you know, I've um been to the Reformed know, I've um been to the Reformed know, I've um been to the Reformed Church, to the Pentecostal church, and Church, to the Pentecostal church, and Church, to the Pentecostal church, and everything in between, you know, and and everything in between, you know, and and everything in between, you know, and and so I would say um the way I approach so I would say um the way I approach so I would say um the way I approach preaching, it's kind of a mix of all the preaching, it's kind of a mix of all the preaching, it's kind of a mix of all the things that I've been trained with um things that I've been trained with um things that I've been trained with um where I do study and I do um do the where I do study and I do um do the where I do study and I do um do the reading and I do do the the Greek, the reading and I do do the the Greek, the reading and I do do the the Greek, the Hebrew, all of that stuff. But at the Hebrew, all of that stuff. But at the Hebrew, all of that stuff. But at the same time, just, you know, can't forget same time, just, you know, can't forget same time, just, you know, can't forget how I was raised and making sure that how I was raised and making sure that how I was raised and making sure that I'm available for the Holy Spirit to use I'm available for the Holy Spirit to use I'm available for the Holy Spirit to use when I'm when I'm up at the pulpit. when I'm when I'm up at the pulpit. when I'm when I'm up at the pulpit. >> Are you full manuscript, bullet points, >> Are you full manuscript, bullet points, >> Are you full manuscript, bullet points, no notes? How do you walk in? no notes? How do you walk in? no notes? How do you walk in? >> I am um half bullet points and a with a >> I am um half bullet points and a with a >> I am um half bullet points and a with a little bit of manuscript. Um, I don't little bit of manuscript. Um, I don't little bit of manuscript. Um, I don't fully manuscript the whole thing because fully manuscript the whole thing because fully manuscript the whole thing because I find, at least for me, the way I'm I find, at least for me, the way I'm I find, at least for me, the way I'm where I preach, um, when I have a full where I preach, um, when I have a full where I preach, um, when I have a full manuscript, I actually don't preach as manuscript, I actually don't preach as manuscript, I actually don't preach as well.

well. well. >> How come I'm interested? >> How come I'm interested? >> How come I'm interested? >> Yeah. Um, because I get really focused >> Yeah. Um, because I get really focused >> Yeah. Um, because I get really focused on what I thought would be a good idea on what I thought would be a good idea on what I thought would be a good idea instead of being attuned to what the instead of being attuned to what the instead of being attuned to what the Holy Spirit is trying to say to me. Um, Holy Spirit is trying to say to me. Um, Holy Spirit is trying to say to me. Um, and that's me. And I've seen some and that's me. And I've seen some and that's me. And I've seen some amazing manuscript preachers. This is amazing manuscript preachers. This is amazing manuscript preachers. This is not to say, oh, that manuscript not to say, oh, that manuscript not to say, oh, that manuscript preachers are not listening to the Holy preachers are not listening to the Holy preachers are not listening to the Holy Spirit. They definitely do. At least for Spirit. They definitely do. At least for Spirit. They definitely do. At least for me, the way the Lord has designed me and me, the way the Lord has designed me and me, the way the Lord has designed me and um perhaps even the way that I've been um perhaps even the way that I've been um perhaps even the way that I've been trained in the beginning, um I have trained in the beginning, um I have trained in the beginning, um I have found that when I'm too manuscripted, found that when I'm too manuscripted, found that when I'm too manuscripted, especially if all that's coming out of especially if all that's coming out of especially if all that's coming out of me is like the need to make sure that I me is like the need to make sure that I me is like the need to make sure that I word for word um write down every single word for word um write down every single word for word um write down every single thing, then I know, oh, I think I'm thing, then I know, oh, I think I'm thing, then I know, oh, I think I'm starting to feel nervous about this and starting to feel nervous about this and starting to feel nervous about this and I'm starting to control this too much, I'm starting to control this too much, I'm starting to control this too much, >> you know. Um, and um, so when I feel >> you know. Um, and um, so when I feel >> you know. Um, and um, so when I feel that, I I take a step back and say, that, I I take a step back and say, that, I I take a step back and say, "Okay, Jesus." Um, where should I leave "Okay, Jesus." Um, where should I leave "Okay, Jesus." Um, where should I leave room in my notes for you to do your room in my notes for you to do your room in my notes for you to do your thing, you know? And so sometimes I cut thing, you know? And so sometimes I cut thing, you know? And so sometimes I cut down my sentences to like a word or a down my sentences to like a word or a down my sentences to like a word or a phrase so as not to get too hung up to phrase so as not to get too hung up to phrase so as not to get too hung up to say a certain thing a certain way. Um, say a certain thing a certain way. Um, say a certain thing a certain way. Um, but also just making room to I mean, but also just making room to I mean, but also just making room to I mean, some would call it adlib, right? Some some would call it adlib, right? Some some would call it adlib, right? Some would call it, you know, just going with would call it, you know, just going with would call it, you know, just going with the flow. I mean, whatever you want to the flow. I mean, whatever you want to the flow. I mean, whatever you want to call it, but I would say just being open call it, but I would say just being open call it, but I would say just being open to how the Holy Spirit wants to breathe to how the Holy Spirit wants to breathe to how the Holy Spirit wants to breathe on that revelation.

on that revelation. on that revelation. >> So, you mentioned half your church is >> So, you mentioned half your church is >> So, you mentioned half your church is sort of over your age and your husband's sort of over your age and your husband's sort of over your age and your husband's age. That means half is probably under. age. That means half is probably under. age. That means half is probably under. What are you learning? And, you know, What are you learning? And, you know, What are you learning? And, you know, I'm particularly interested because of I'm particularly interested because of I'm particularly interested because of your context right across the river from your context right across the river from your context right across the river from New York. New York. New York. >> What are you learning about the next >> What are you learning about the next >> What are you learning about the next generation and what they're what generation and what they're what generation and what they're what connects with them in preaching? connects with them in preaching? connects with them in preaching? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. um um um >> and how is that different from >> and how is that different from >> and how is that different from >> older generation? >> older generation? >> older generation? >> They're hungry for an experience. >> They're hungry for an experience. >> They're hungry for an experience. >> Um >> Um >> Um more than information, more than information, more than information, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> I would say, you know, I think preaching >> I would say, you know, I think preaching >> I would say, you know, I think preaching 20 years ago, you just say the truth and 20 years ago, you just say the truth and 20 years ago, you just say the truth and that seemed to be enough. But now you that seemed to be enough. But now you that seemed to be enough. But now you could say the truth and you could say it could say the truth and you could say it could say the truth and you could say it really well and that may not move the really well and that may not move the really well and that may not move the needle as much or at least in my needle as much or at least in my needle as much or at least in my context, right? M context, right? M context, right? M >> um not a lot of people get shocked in my >> um not a lot of people get shocked in my >> um not a lot of people get shocked in my context, especially if you work in New context, especially if you work in New context, especially if you work in New York City and you live in New Jersey. Um York City and you live in New Jersey. Um York City and you live in New Jersey. Um >> uh life is big. The world is big. And >> uh life is big. The world is big. And >> uh life is big. The world is big. And so, um, for you to just kind of lay so, um, for you to just kind of lay so, um, for you to just kind of lay things out, um, and expect people to be things out, um, and expect people to be things out, um, and expect people to be moved by just information alone, moved by just information alone, moved by just information alone, um, it's it's a tall order because um, it's it's a tall order because um, it's it's a tall order because >> I think what they want is to know Jesus >> I think what they want is to know Jesus >> I think what they want is to know Jesus in their hearts. They want an in their hearts. They want an in their hearts. They want an experiential knowledge.

experiential knowledge. experiential knowledge. >> So, what does that look like when you're >> So, what does that look like when you're >> So, what does that look like when you're planning a service and planning a planning a service and planning a planning a service and planning a sermon? sermon? sermon? >> Yeah. We have to make room for Holy >> Yeah. We have to make room for Holy >> Yeah. We have to make room for Holy Spirit to move and for there to be Spirit to move and for there to be Spirit to move and for there to be possibilities for encounter. possibilities for encounter. possibilities for encounter. >> So what does that look like? >> So what does that look like? >> So what does that look like? >> Um making space during prayer having >> Um making space during prayer having >> Um making space during prayer having moments even after service where we give moments even after service where we give moments even after service where we give um people the opportunity to linger um um people the opportunity to linger um um people the opportunity to linger um to respond in their own way. And you to respond in their own way. And you to respond in their own way. And you know and this is not how it works in know and this is not how it works in know and this is not how it works in every place in America but at least in every place in America but at least in every place in America but at least in my context people don't like being my context people don't like being my context people don't like being pressured. pressured. pressured. >> Oh. Um, so if we said you have to come >> Oh. Um, so if we said you have to come >> Oh. Um, so if we said you have to come up to the altar for this and that's the up to the altar for this and that's the up to the altar for this and that's the only, you know, that's what faith looks only, you know, that's what faith looks only, you know, that's what faith looks like. Oh, like. Oh, like. Oh, >> people that work in New York and live >> people that work in New York and live >> people that work in New York and live right 15 minutes away from it like um right 15 minutes away from it like um right 15 minutes away from it like um they'll be like, "Okay, no." they'll be like, "Okay, no." they'll be like, "Okay, no." >> Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. They'll tell >> Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. They'll tell >> Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. They'll tell you, you, you, >> right? You know, people fight for their >> right? You know, people fight for their >> right? You know, people fight for their own lane, you know? And so, um, allowing own lane, you know? And so, um, allowing own lane, you know? And so, um, allowing a gentle freedom. You could respond this a gentle freedom. You could respond this a gentle freedom. You could respond this way. You could respond by coming up. You way. You could respond by coming up. You way. You could respond by coming up. You could respond by coming up and not could respond by coming up and not could respond by coming up and not having someone pray for you. Or you having someone pray for you. Or you having someone pray for you. Or you could actually come up and actually ask could actually come up and actually ask could actually come up and actually ask someone to pray for you. You could stay someone to pray for you. You could stay someone to pray for you. You could stay in your seats. But whatever it is, the in your seats. But whatever it is, the in your seats. But whatever it is, the whole point is um give God an whole point is um give God an whole point is um give God an opportunity to respond to you, you know, opportunity to respond to you, you know, opportunity to respond to you, you know, and have the posture to listen. I think and have the posture to listen. I think and have the posture to listen. I think teaching people to expect something from teaching people to expect something from teaching people to expect something from Jesus um is huge.

Jesus um is huge. Jesus um is huge. So, you're three years in from launch So, you're three years in from launch So, you're three years in from launch now. You're running how many people now. You're running how many people now. You're running how many people typically on a Sunday? typically on a Sunday? typically on a Sunday? >> Um, it really depends on the season, >> Um, it really depends on the season, >> Um, it really depends on the season, right? Our lowest seasons, and I don't right? Our lowest seasons, and I don't right? Our lowest seasons, and I don't know if this helps, but I did hear it's know if this helps, but I did hear it's know if this helps, but I did hear it's it's a growing trend. Our lowest season it's a growing trend. Our lowest season it's a growing trend. Our lowest season is the fall. is the fall. is the fall. >> Oh, >> Oh, >> Oh, >> yeah. Um, because people used to think >> yeah. Um, because people used to think >> yeah. Um, because people used to think that the lowest seasons are the summer, that the lowest seasons are the summer, that the lowest seasons are the summer, >> but actually, I mean, and like I said, >> but actually, I mean, and like I said, >> but actually, I mean, and like I said, depends on your region, but because depends on your region, but because depends on your region, but because sports culture is huge and sports culture is huge and sports culture is huge and extracurriculars, oh my goodness, it's extracurriculars, oh my goodness, it's extracurriculars, oh my goodness, it's huge. Especially if you do have young huge. Especially if you do have young huge. Especially if you do have young families. I mean September, October and families. I mean September, October and families. I mean September, October and it's kind of you know we joke some I it's kind of you know we joke some I it's kind of you know we joke some I mean not not facitiously but just to mean not not facitiously but just to mean not not facitiously but just to cope sometimes but sometimes you know cope sometimes but sometimes you know cope sometimes but sometimes you know it's like by midepptember you're like it's like by midepptember you're like it's like by midepptember you're like okay see you Thanksgiving you know what okay see you Thanksgiving you know what okay see you Thanksgiving you know what I mean? Um uh we don't want it to be I mean? Um uh we don't want it to be I mean? Um uh we don't want it to be that way but it is you know for many that way but it is you know for many that way but it is you know for many families. Um, and but so it really families. Um, and but so it really families. Um, and but so it really depends on the season, but we I would depends on the season, but we I would depends on the season, but we I would say we range anywhere from 80 to 120.

say we range anywhere from 80 to 120. say we range anywhere from 80 to 120. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Which is like a lot of people >> Yeah. Which is like a lot of people >> Yeah. Which is like a lot of people listening right now can relate to that. listening right now can relate to that. listening right now can relate to that. And congratulations. I mean, the fact And congratulations. I mean, the fact And congratulations. I mean, the fact that you're even alive as a church is is that you're even alive as a church is is that you're even alive as a church is is miraculous. miraculous. miraculous. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> You know, after everything you went >> You know, after everything you went >> You know, after everything you went through in the first two years, that's through in the first two years, that's through in the first two years, that's great. How are you connecting people in great. How are you connecting people in great. How are you connecting people in community? Because that's a really community? Because that's a really community? Because that's a really interesting size interesting size interesting size >> cuz you can almost know everybody in the >> cuz you can almost know everybody in the >> cuz you can almost know everybody in the room. Not quite, but I'm sure you do. room. Not quite, but I'm sure you do. room. Not quite, but I'm sure you do. You and your husband look out. You know You and your husband look out. You know You and your husband look out. You know the names of almost everybody there the names of almost everybody there the names of almost everybody there >> and people can get connected in a large >> and people can get connected in a large >> and people can get connected in a large group but they probably need to move group but they probably need to move group but they probably need to move beyond that. What are you learning about beyond that. What are you learning about beyond that. What are you learning about community and how people want to connect community and how people want to connect community and how people want to connect these days? these days? these days? >> Absolutely. That's a great question and >> Absolutely. That's a great question and >> Absolutely. That's a great question and we have a completely multithnic, we have a completely multithnic, we have a completely multithnic, multicultural, multigenerational church. multicultural, multigenerational church. multicultural, multigenerational church. >> So finding common ground and uniting >> So finding common ground and uniting >> So finding common ground and uniting people is a a different kind of people is a a different kind of people is a a different kind of challenge. challenge. challenge. >> Yeah. You know, because if you have a >> Yeah. You know, because if you have a >> Yeah. You know, because if you have a monocultural demographic, oh, you could monocultural demographic, oh, you could monocultural demographic, oh, you could bond in so many different ways, you bond in so many different ways, you bond in so many different ways, you know, and outreach is so know, and outreach is so know, and outreach is so >> and you come from that background. >> and you come from that background. >> and you come from that background. >> Yes. Right. you know, and outreach is >> Yes. Right. you know, and outreach is >> Yes. Right. you know, and outreach is almost simple because there's a lot of almost simple because there's a lot of almost simple because there's a lot of things that you could use to draw things that you could use to draw things that you could use to draw people, but if you have um some uh 60s people, but if you have um some uh 60s people, but if you have um some uh 60s something Latino American um immigrant something Latino American um immigrant something Latino American um immigrant and you have a Caucasian and you have a Caucasian and you have a Caucasian um ma male that's in his late 20s, you um ma male that's in his late 20s, you um ma male that's in his late 20s, you know, and like you're trying to like know, and like you're trying to like know, and like you're trying to like bring all that together. Um, and you got bring all that together. Um, and you got bring all that together. Um, and you got a college girl and then you have a a college girl and then you have a a college girl and then you have a grandmother, you know, it's like how grandmother, you know, it's like how grandmother, you know, it's like how what how how do you outreach, you know,

what how how do you outreach, you know, what how how do you outreach, you know, how do you um cuz a simple thing like um how do you um cuz a simple thing like um how do you um cuz a simple thing like um coffee vision night is it's it's it's coffee vision night is it's it's it's coffee vision night is it's it's it's not going to draw, you know, um because not going to draw, you know, um because not going to draw, you know, um because you need to have a certain demographic, you need to have a certain demographic, you need to have a certain demographic, I think, or a certain culture in your I think, or a certain culture in your I think, or a certain culture in your demographic that could draw people to a demographic that could draw people to a demographic that could draw people to a vision night in a cafe or a bowling vision night in a cafe or a bowling vision night in a cafe or a bowling night, right? And so I think to be night, right? And so I think to be night, right? And so I think to be honest, the greatest unifying factor honest, the greatest unifying factor honest, the greatest unifying factor would be an outpouring of the Holy would be an outpouring of the Holy would be an outpouring of the Holy Spirit, you know, and not to Spirit, you know, and not to Spirit, you know, and not to oversimplify it because and like I said, oversimplify it because and like I said, oversimplify it because and like I said, some people may not like that answer some people may not like that answer some people may not like that answer because um it's not a neat formula, because um it's not a neat formula, because um it's not a neat formula, right? Um and it's not a strategy that right? Um and it's not a strategy that right? Um and it's not a strategy that you could just be like, "Okay, I'll do you could just be like, "Okay, I'll do you could just be like, "Okay, I'll do that, that, that, >> right?" you know, but let me tell you >> right?" you know, but let me tell you >> right?" you know, but let me tell you more than more than more than um a small group plan or an event or um a small group plan or an event or um a small group plan or an event or anything and we've done all those right. anything and we've done all those right. anything and we've done all those right. The greatest unifying and melding thing The greatest unifying and melding thing The greatest unifying and melding thing that we've ever seen was when Holy that we've ever seen was when Holy that we've ever seen was when Holy Spirit would move in the room and Spirit would move in the room and Spirit would move in the room and everybody will be captured by his everybody will be captured by his everybody will be captured by his presence and we will all experience presence and we will all experience presence and we will all experience something that is similar and when we something that is similar and when we something that is similar and when we come out into the lobby all of a sudden come out into the lobby all of a sudden come out into the lobby all of a sudden everybody has something to talk about.

everybody has something to talk about. everybody has something to talk about. >> How do you I mean you can prepare your >> How do you I mean you can prepare your >> How do you I mean you can prepare your heart for that you can pray for it. you heart for that you can pray for it. you heart for that you can pray for it. you can leave space in the service for it. can leave space in the service for it. can leave space in the service for it. >> And I think the opposite of that is the >> And I think the opposite of that is the >> And I think the opposite of that is the tightly programmed to the second. tightly programmed to the second. tightly programmed to the second. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know, service that a lot of us do. >> You know, service that a lot of us do. >> You know, service that a lot of us do. >> What else can you do if you want those >> What else can you do if you want those >> What else can you do if you want those kind of encounters to prepare the kind of encounters to prepare the kind of encounters to prepare the ground? ground? ground? >> Yeah. I would say um have a prepared >> Yeah. I would say um have a prepared >> Yeah. I would say um have a prepared prayer team. prayer team. prayer team. >> You know, train your prayer team to uh >> You know, train your prayer team to uh >> You know, train your prayer team to uh till the soil a bit, you know, cuz Oh, I till the soil a bit, you know, cuz Oh, I till the soil a bit, you know, cuz Oh, I know what it's like to have dry and know what it's like to have dry and know what it's like to have dry and tough soil. I mean, the Northeast, you tough soil. I mean, the Northeast, you tough soil. I mean, the Northeast, you know, this ain't Texas, you know, I'll know, this ain't Texas, you know, I'll know, this ain't Texas, you know, I'll tell you that, you know, um and uh tell you that, you know, um and uh tell you that, you know, um and uh >> I think it's easy for the clim spiritual >> I think it's easy for the clim spiritual >> I think it's easy for the clim spiritual climate of your region to determine your climate of your region to determine your climate of your region to determine your expectation. expectation. expectation. And I think it's important to let Jesus And I think it's important to let Jesus And I think it's important to let Jesus determine your expectation. determine your expectation. determine your expectation. And how to do that is also prepare the And how to do that is also prepare the And how to do that is also prepare the prayer team in a lot of ways. You know, prayer team in a lot of ways. You know, prayer team in a lot of ways. You know, what are we pressing for? what are we what are we pressing for? what are we what are we pressing for? what are we pressing towards? What are we praying pressing towards? What are we praying pressing towards? What are we praying into? Right? And I think a lot of times into? Right? And I think a lot of times into? Right? And I think a lot of times if a prayer team is just um response if a prayer team is just um response if a prayer team is just um response oriented, you know, like here's a oriented, you know, like here's a oriented, you know, like here's a problem, so let's respond to it. Here's problem, so let's respond to it. Here's problem, so let's respond to it. Here's a you know, here's a need so let's a you know, here's a need so let's a you know, here's a need so let's respond to it. That's good. You should respond to it. That's good. You should respond to it. That's good. You should do that. But I think also praying in do that. But I think also praying in do that. But I think also praying in faith like what are we believing towards faith like what are we believing towards faith like what are we believing towards um and really tilling the soil of your um and really tilling the soil of your um and really tilling the soil of your region um with immense amount of prayer

region um with immense amount of prayer region um with immense amount of prayer and also um having that prayer team be and also um having that prayer team be and also um having that prayer team be the type that could also pray for other the type that could also pray for other the type that could also pray for other people people people >> right >> right >> right >> you know um that is such a unifying >> you know um that is such a unifying >> you know um that is such a unifying moment when people just pray together moment when people just pray together moment when people just pray together >> right and I've seen uh people of >> right and I've seen uh people of >> right and I've seen uh people of different generations different different generations different different generations different backgrounds, even different languages, backgrounds, even different languages, backgrounds, even different languages, come together and really feel like come together and really feel like come together and really feel like family when we're praying together. family when we're praying together. family when we're praying together. >> And when you have the right kind of >> And when you have the right kind of >> And when you have the right kind of prayer team that's prepared to do that prayer team that's prepared to do that prayer team that's prepared to do that well and knowing how to do that in your well and knowing how to do that in your well and knowing how to do that in your context, cuz how you do that in the context, cuz how you do that in the context, cuz how you do that in the Northeast will be kind of different than Northeast will be kind of different than Northeast will be kind of different than how you do that in other places where how you do that in other places where how you do that in other places where >> how do you do that in the Northeast? >> how do you do that in the Northeast? >> how do you do that in the Northeast? >> I would say um it's a little bit more >> I would say um it's a little bit more >> I would say um it's a little bit more respectful in the sense now I'm not respectful in the sense now I'm not respectful in the sense now I'm not saying other regions are not respectful. saying other regions are not respectful. saying other regions are not respectful. It's not like, "Hey honey, come over It's not like, "Hey honey, come over It's not like, "Hey honey, come over here for prayer." here for prayer." here for prayer." >> It's not that kind of like we assume you >> It's not that kind of like we assume you >> It's not that kind of like we assume you want it. Is that what you're saying? want it. Is that what you're saying? want it. Is that what you're saying? >> Kind of. Yeah. And also don't just grab >> Kind of. Yeah. And also don't just grab >> Kind of. Yeah. And also don't just grab them, them, them, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> You know, and I think in a lot of church >> You know, and I think in a lot of church >> You know, and I think in a lot of church cultures that's normal and that's also cultures that's normal and that's also cultures that's normal and that's also like okay, you know, you just put your like okay, you know, you just put your like okay, you know, you just put your hand on them and you know, hand on them and you know, hand on them and you know, >> New Yorkers are like, "Oh yeah, they're >> New Yorkers are like, "Oh yeah, they're >> New Yorkers are like, "Oh yeah, they're you have to ask per permission before you have to ask per permission before you have to ask per permission before you touch somebody." Um, and I and I you touch somebody." Um, and I and I you touch somebody." Um, and I and I think before people are like, "Oh, no, think before people are like, "Oh, no, think before people are like, "Oh, no, just go by faith." I think just honoring just go by faith." I think just honoring just go by faith." I think just honoring your region and honoring the culture.

your region and honoring the culture. your region and honoring the culture. >> So, it's what I've talked about with Tim >> So, it's what I've talked about with Tim >> So, it's what I've talked about with Tim Keller's team. You got to exede and with Keller's team. You got to exede and with Keller's team. You got to exede and with Tim Tim Tim >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> when he was alive, you know, you have to >> when he was alive, you know, you have to >> when he was alive, you know, you have to exedute the culture as much as you exedute the culture as much as you exedute the culture as much as you exeute the text. And it sounds like exeute the text. And it sounds like exeute the text. And it sounds like you've been doing that. you've been doing that. you've been doing that. >> Yes. Oh, trying our best. >> Yes. Oh, trying our best. >> Yes. Oh, trying our best. >> Yeah. Yeah. Faith, I want to go back a >> Yeah. Yeah. Faith, I want to go back a >> Yeah. Yeah. Faith, I want to go back a little bit. I think, you know, it's a little bit. I think, you know, it's a little bit. I think, you know, it's a really big subject on mental health really big subject on mental health really big subject on mental health >> and preaching in church leadership. >> and preaching in church leadership. >> and preaching in church leadership. >> What else are you learning about? >> What else are you learning about? >> What else are you learning about? And feel free to take it beyond And feel free to take it beyond And feel free to take it beyond preaching and to look at just church preaching and to look at just church preaching and to look at just church leadership. Church leadership is hard. leadership. Church leadership is hard. leadership. Church leadership is hard. >> There's a reason a lot of people who >> There's a reason a lot of people who >> There's a reason a lot of people who start in ministry don't finish in start in ministry don't finish in start in ministry don't finish in ministry. ministry. ministry. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That people just say, "This is too >> That people just say, "This is too >> That people just say, "This is too difficult. I'm going to go." difficult. I'm going to go." difficult. I'm going to go." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um what else are you learning about >> Um what else are you learning about >> Um what else are you learning about mental health and preaching slashurch mental health and preaching slashurch mental health and preaching slashurch leadership? leadership? leadership? >> I think our relationship with pain. >> I think our relationship with pain. >> I think our relationship with pain. Um I don't like pain. I don't know about Um I don't like pain. I don't know about Um I don't like pain. I don't know about you. Like I really don't like it. you. Like I really don't like it. you. Like I really don't like it. >> Yeah. I I tend to run away from it a lot >> Yeah. I I tend to run away from it a lot >> Yeah. I I tend to run away from it a lot at every opportunity. at every opportunity. at every opportunity. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yeah. But it keeps chasing me.

>> Yeah. But it keeps chasing me. >> Yeah. But it keeps chasing me. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, I feel you hardcore. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, I feel you hardcore. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, I feel you hardcore. >> It's here for the long run. >> It's here for the long run. >> It's here for the long run. >> Yeah. And I think um reconciling with >> Yeah. And I think um reconciling with >> Yeah. And I think um reconciling with it, it, it, >> you know. Um I think when I think of >> you know. Um I think when I think of >> you know. Um I think when I think of pain, I and if I see any prospect for pain, I and if I see any prospect for pain, I and if I see any prospect for it, oh my goodness, Carrie, I'd avoid it it, oh my goodness, Carrie, I'd avoid it it, oh my goodness, Carrie, I'd avoid it like the plague. And um it it makes me like the plague. And um it it makes me like the plague. And um it it makes me antsy. It makes me, you know, oh my antsy. It makes me, you know, oh my antsy. It makes me, you know, oh my goodness, I creepy crawlies all all goodness, I creepy crawlies all all goodness, I creepy crawlies all all around. Um, around. Um, around. Um, but also seeing it as but also seeing it as but also seeing it as >> as a tool, you know, and how we relate >> as a tool, you know, and how we relate >> as a tool, you know, and how we relate to pain and realizing it could also be a to pain and realizing it could also be a to pain and realizing it could also be a friend that ushers you into a revelation friend that ushers you into a revelation friend that ushers you into a revelation that you may have never experienced that you may have never experienced that you may have never experienced before, that you've never known before. before, that you've never known before. before, that you've never known before. Um, not to say that we keep paying Um, not to say that we keep paying Um, not to say that we keep paying around if it was unnecessary. Hey, pain around if it was unnecessary. Hey, pain around if it was unnecessary. Hey, pain can go. Let it go. Right. Um, but can go. Let it go. Right. Um, but can go. Let it go. Right. Um, but >> if God's not lifting the pain, >> if God's not lifting the pain, >> if God's not lifting the pain, >> then he wants the spirit of comfort to >> then he wants the spirit of comfort to >> then he wants the spirit of comfort to to reside with you along with it.

to reside with you along with it. to reside with you along with it. And I think if the purpose of your life And I think if the purpose of your life And I think if the purpose of your life is to know Jesus intimately, is to know Jesus intimately, is to know Jesus intimately, authentically, and passionately, and I authentically, and passionately, and I authentically, and passionately, and I say this all the time, then every season say this all the time, then every season say this all the time, then every season will have a gift. Every season will have will have a gift. Every season will have will have a gift. Every season will have a blessing. So for example, if the a blessing. So for example, if the a blessing. So for example, if the purpose of my life is to know Jesus in purpose of my life is to know Jesus in purpose of my life is to know Jesus in that way and I'm in a season of illness, that way and I'm in a season of illness, that way and I'm in a season of illness, then I will know uh the God who heals, then I will know uh the God who heals, then I will know uh the God who heals, the healer. the healer. the healer. >> If I'm in a season of pain, I will know >> If I'm in a season of pain, I will know >> If I'm in a season of pain, I will know the comforter. Right? So if my mission the comforter. Right? So if my mission the comforter. Right? So if my mission in life, my purpose to breathe is to in life, my purpose to breathe is to in life, my purpose to breathe is to know Jesus, then I could call every know Jesus, then I could call every know Jesus, then I could call every season successful. Even your season of season successful. Even your season of season successful. Even your season of failure, you will know his grace more failure, you will know his grace more failure, you will know his grace more than others who have never failed in the than others who have never failed in the than others who have never failed in the way that you have failed. way that you have failed. way that you have failed. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What are you learning about speaking >> What are you learning about speaking >> What are you learning about speaking because you speak beyond your church because you speak beyond your church because you speak beyond your church like nationally and beyond like nationally and beyond like nationally and beyond >> about you know being a woman speaking in >> about you know being a woman speaking in >> about you know being a woman speaking in places where women maybe haven't places where women maybe haven't places where women maybe haven't traditionally been welcome traditionally been welcome traditionally been welcome >> because you're going to identify with a >> because you're going to identify with a >> because you're going to identify with a lot of people watching this and lot of people watching this and lot of people watching this and listening to this. Uh, what are you listening to this. Uh, what are you listening to this. Uh, what are you learning about that in this season?

learning about that in this season? learning about that in this season? >> About being a woman. >> About being a woman. >> About being a woman. >> Yeah. Being a woman and preaching where >> Yeah. Being a woman and preaching where >> Yeah. Being a woman and preaching where maybe not everybody's happy that you maybe not everybody's happy that you maybe not everybody's happy that you have the microphone today. have the microphone today. have the microphone today. >> Oh. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. >> Oh. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. >> Oh. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. All right. We've fired you >> Yeah. Yeah. All right. We've fired you >> Yeah. Yeah. All right. We've fired you up. up. up. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I would say >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I would say >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I would say when you get up on that pulpit, you may when you get up on that pulpit, you may when you get up on that pulpit, you may feel the expectation lower and even the feel the expectation lower and even the feel the expectation lower and even the hunger of the room lower hunger of the room lower hunger of the room lower >> simply because they don't recognize your >> simply because they don't recognize your >> simply because they don't recognize your name and your face is not familiar and name and your face is not familiar and name and your face is not familiar and um because the tone of your voice is um because the tone of your voice is um because the tone of your voice is higher. Um, but even still, just knowing higher. Um, but even still, just knowing higher. Um, but even still, just knowing that everything that you need to be that everything that you need to be that everything that you need to be obedient to the Lord and to be faithful, obedient to the Lord and to be faithful, obedient to the Lord and to be faithful, you have. you have. you have. And so just knowing that I have And so just knowing that I have And so just knowing that I have everything I need in that moment to do everything I need in that moment to do everything I need in that moment to do what I have to do, I think is what keeps what I have to do, I think is what keeps what I have to do, I think is what keeps me going, you know, and also what I see me going, you know, and also what I see me going, you know, and also what I see a lot of women that are doing the same a lot of women that are doing the same a lot of women that are doing the same exact things that I'm doing, keeping exact things that I'm doing, keeping exact things that I'm doing, keeping them going as well. Not allowing those them going as well. Not allowing those them going as well. Not allowing those external factors to change our view of external factors to change our view of external factors to change our view of our calling, our identity, and even just our calling, our identity, and even just our calling, our identity, and even just our perspective of what God thinks of our perspective of what God thinks of our perspective of what God thinks of us. Are there specific things you would us. Are there specific things you would us. Are there specific things you would say or do either in the green room or say or do either in the green room or say or do either in the green room or setting things up or connecting with setting things up or connecting with setting things up or connecting with people or on stage people or on stage people or on stage >> that would help bridge that gap which >> that would help bridge that gap which >> that would help bridge that gap which unfortunately still exists?

unfortunately still exists? unfortunately still exists? Well, you know, I would say um Well, you know, I would say um Well, you know, I would say um if it's not just anointing, because I if it's not just anointing, because I if it's not just anointing, because I feel like every preacher should lean and feel like every preacher should lean and feel like every preacher should lean and desire that the anointing of the Holy desire that the anointing of the Holy desire that the anointing of the Holy Spirit, then there are just like the Spirit, then there are just like the Spirit, then there are just like the basics of charisma, you know. Um and basics of charisma, you know. Um and basics of charisma, you know. Um and when I say charisma, I don't mean like when I say charisma, I don't mean like when I say charisma, I don't mean like the charismatic. I mean like the just the charismatic. I mean like the just the charismatic. I mean like the just humility, humility, humility, >> you know. Um and honestly, sometimes >> you know. Um and honestly, sometimes >> you know. Um and honestly, sometimes humor. humor. humor. >> Yeah. you know, make everybody laugh. >> Yeah. you know, make everybody laugh. >> Yeah. you know, make everybody laugh. >> Yeah. It's just I mean, these are common >> Yeah. It's just I mean, these are common >> Yeah. It's just I mean, these are common grounds, right? And I go in and I'm not grounds, right? And I go in and I'm not grounds, right? And I go in and I'm not trying to prove myself. Um, strangely trying to prove myself. Um, strangely trying to prove myself. Um, strangely enough, I know I'm a preacher, but I enough, I know I'm a preacher, but I enough, I know I'm a preacher, but I also know the that the great commission also know the that the great commission also know the that the great commission isn't go and go and be heard and seen, isn't go and go and be heard and seen, isn't go and go and be heard and seen, >> you know. So, my job is not for them to >> you know. So, my job is not for them to >> you know. So, my job is not for them to understand me. understand me. understand me. >> Um, not in the sense of me like they >> Um, not in the sense of me like they >> Um, not in the sense of me like they should understand what I say, but not, should understand what I say, but not, should understand what I say, but not, you know, me as a person. like my job is you know, me as a person. like my job is you know, me as a person. like my job is not for them to like me or understand not for them to like me or understand not for them to like me or understand me. Um but what I can do is um humble me. Um but what I can do is um humble me. Um but what I can do is um humble myself, you know. And so even just going myself, you know. And so even just going myself, you know. And so even just going in and I even knowing that they're not in and I even knowing that they're not in and I even knowing that they're not expecting much still going in servant expecting much still going in servant expecting much still going in servant like anyways you know um serving them like anyways you know um serving them like anyways you know um serving them anyways anyways anyways loving them anyways being happy to be loving them anyways being happy to be loving them anyways being happy to be there and making sure that they know it there and making sure that they know it there and making sure that they know it that I'm happy to be there anyways you that I'm happy to be there anyways you that I'm happy to be there anyways you know so making sure to demonstrate a

know so making sure to demonstrate a know so making sure to demonstrate a courteousness and a grace and uh courteousness and a grace and uh courteousness and a grace and uh hopefully a humility um and which is hopefully a humility um and which is hopefully a humility um and which is also humor. Like we all could laugh, you also humor. Like we all could laugh, you also humor. Like we all could laugh, you know. Yeah. know. Yeah. know. Yeah. >> Yeah. What when you think about being an >> Yeah. What when you think about being an >> Yeah. What when you think about being an Asian-American as well, what are some of Asian-American as well, what are some of Asian-American as well, what are some of the blind spots you think the wider the blind spots you think the wider the blind spots you think the wider culture, Caucasian culture have to the culture, Caucasian culture have to the culture, Caucasian culture have to the contribution that Asian-Americans are contribution that Asian-Americans are contribution that Asian-Americans are making to the church, to culture, etc.? making to the church, to culture, etc.? making to the church, to culture, etc.? What are some blind spots that What are some blind spots that What are some blind spots that >> um those of us who are not >> um those of us who are not >> um those of us who are not Asian-American should be aware of? Um, I Asian-American should be aware of? Um, I Asian-American should be aware of? Um, I would say, and this could go not just would say, and this could go not just would say, and this could go not just for Caucasians, but like for everybody, for Caucasians, but like for everybody, for Caucasians, but like for everybody, that I think sometimes we could that I think sometimes we could that I think sometimes we could misconstrue this idea that our bubble is misconstrue this idea that our bubble is misconstrue this idea that our bubble is the only bubble, that we are um at the the only bubble, that we are um at the the only bubble, that we are um at the center of what God is doing and that how center of what God is doing and that how center of what God is doing and that how we do it is a way God does it alone. You we do it is a way God does it alone. You we do it is a way God does it alone. You know, that he that's the only way that know, that he that's the only way that know, that he that's the only way that he does it. Um, he does it. Um, he does it. Um, >> so Burban Evangelical Mega Church, >> so Burban Evangelical Mega Church, >> so Burban Evangelical Mega Church, that's God's style, right? that's God's style, right? that's God's style, right? >> Right. Right. You know, and I think just >> Right. Right. You know, and I think just >> Right. Right. You know, and I think just knowing there are different ways to do knowing there are different ways to do knowing there are different ways to do things and there's also different things and there's also different things and there's also different perspectives. And if we want the best perspectives. And if we want the best perspectives. And if we want the best picture, the clearest picture of the picture, the clearest picture of the picture, the clearest picture of the gospel and of God, then we would want gospel and of God, then we would want gospel and of God, then we would want everyone's perspective of who God is and everyone's perspective of who God is and everyone's perspective of who God is and how he functions. And so I think even how he functions. And so I think even how he functions. And so I think even just having a greater curiosity just having a greater curiosity just having a greater curiosity and perhaps even a greater hunger too to and perhaps even a greater hunger too to and perhaps even a greater hunger too to learn from people that are just

learn from people that are just learn from people that are just different um than you are, may even have different um than you are, may even have different um than you are, may even have an accent, may even have names that you an accent, may even have names that you an accent, may even have names that you do not recognize. And I think um just do not recognize. And I think um just do not recognize. And I think um just being just as hungry to hear from them being just as hungry to hear from them being just as hungry to hear from them as you may be from your favorite as you may be from your favorite as you may be from your favorite preacher preacher preacher >> or your favorite ministry. >> or your favorite ministry. >> or your favorite ministry. >> Yeah. So, you're juggling a lot right >> Yeah. So, you're juggling a lot right >> Yeah. So, you're juggling a lot right now. You're an author. You're a speaker, now. You're an author. You're a speaker, now. You're an author. You're a speaker, not just in your church, but around the not just in your church, but around the not just in your church, but around the world. You do interviews like this. world. You do interviews like this. world. You do interviews like this. >> Uh you're on TV. You You got a lot going >> Uh you're on TV. You You got a lot going >> Uh you're on TV. You You got a lot going on. And you have four kids. on. And you have four kids. on. And you have four kids. >> I do. >> I do. >> I do. >> What What's the age range? >> What What's the age range? >> What What's the age range? >> They are 8, 10, 11, and 13. >> They are 8, 10, 11, and 13. >> They are 8, 10, 11, and 13. >> Yeah, exactly. You're in the thick of >> Yeah, exactly. You're in the thick of >> Yeah, exactly. You're in the thick of it. it. it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What do boundaries look like for you >> What do boundaries look like for you >> What do boundaries look like for you these days? these days? these days? [Music] [Music] [Music] >> I just think about one thing at a time. >> I just think about one thing at a time. >> I just think about one thing at a time. Um, and that's the only way I could Um, and that's the only way I could Um, and that's the only way I could function. And so when people ask, "How function. And so when people ask, "How function. And so when people ask, "How do you handle it all?" I, my answer is I do you handle it all?" I, my answer is I do you handle it all?" I, my answer is I don't. I just handle one thing at a don't. I just handle one thing at a don't. I just handle one thing at a time. It's either I'm just working on my time. It's either I'm just working on my time. It's either I'm just working on my book, book, book, >> you know, or I'm just doing stratoffs >> you know, or I'm just doing stratoffs >> you know, or I'm just doing stratoffs for the church for the church for the church >> or I am just um focusing on leadership >> or I am just um focusing on leadership >> or I am just um focusing on leadership coaching or I'm just with my kids. And coaching or I'm just with my kids. And coaching or I'm just with my kids. And I'm with when I'm with my kids, I'm not I'm with when I'm with my kids, I'm not I'm with when I'm with my kids, I'm not sermon prepping, you know, I'm not like sermon prepping, you know, I'm not like sermon prepping, you know, I'm not like doing other things like I'm with my doing other things like I'm with my doing other things like I'm with my kids. And so trying to do one thing at a kids. And so trying to do one thing at a kids. And so trying to do one thing at a time um is helpful.

time um is helpful. time um is helpful. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What message of all the messages you >> What message of all the messages you >> What message of all the messages you send, you know, through your writing, send, you know, through your writing, send, you know, through your writing, through your speaking, through your through your speaking, through your through your speaking, through your preaching, preaching, preaching, >> what message seems to be resonating the >> what message seems to be resonating the >> what message seems to be resonating the most? >> That God is with you, you know? And I >> That God is with you, you know? And I think we know that cerebrally, but think we know that cerebrally, but think we know that cerebrally, but experientially I believe a lot of experientially I believe a lot of experientially I believe a lot of believers have a difficult time with believers have a difficult time with believers have a difficult time with that. that. that. >> Yeah, we do. >> Yeah, we do. >> Yeah, we do. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Why do you why is that a message that >> Why do you why is that a message that >> Why do you why is that a message that resonates with you personally? resonates with you personally? resonates with you personally? >> I think because I've always been >> I think because I've always been >> I think because I've always been fascinated by the mystical aspects of fascinated by the mystical aspects of fascinated by the mystical aspects of his presence. And I think people his presence. And I think people his presence. And I think people relegate that conversation to either relegate that conversation to either relegate that conversation to either old-time scholars or to um a certain old-time scholars or to um a certain old-time scholars or to um a certain stream of church. stream of church. stream of church. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um, but you can't discount >> Yeah. Yeah. Um, but you can't discount >> Yeah. Yeah. Um, but you can't discount the mystical elements of his presence. the mystical elements of his presence. the mystical elements of his presence. Meaning, there are going to be things Meaning, there are going to be things Meaning, there are going to be things that you don't fully understand, that you don't fully understand, that you don't fully understand, >> right? And I think as somebody that did >> right? And I think as somebody that did >> right? And I think as somebody that did struggle with mental ill health at an struggle with mental ill health at an struggle with mental ill health at an early age, so I did struggle to feel early age, so I did struggle to feel early age, so I did struggle to feel God, which is hard to admit if you came God, which is hard to admit if you came God, which is hard to admit if you came from the Pentecostal church, you know, from the Pentecostal church, you know, from the Pentecostal church, you know, and so I have been on this lifelong and so I have been on this lifelong and so I have been on this lifelong journey since I I mean actually even journey since I I mean actually even journey since I I mean actually even before I was a Christian, the way I before I was a Christian, the way I before I was a Christian, the way I started was not by um my parents taking started was not by um my parents taking started was not by um my parents taking me to church cuz my parents were not me to church cuz my parents were not me to church cuz my parents were not Christian, Christian, Christian, >> but was when I was um 5 years old and I >> but was when I was um 5 years old and I >> but was when I was um 5 years old and I would just like whisper into the air, would just like whisper into the air, would just like whisper into the air, God, if you're out there, can you show God, if you're out there, can you show God, if you're out there, can you show yourself to me? You know, and I just was yourself to me? You know, and I just was yourself to me? You know, and I just was trying to figure out like, are you like,

trying to figure out like, are you like, trying to figure out like, are you like, who are you? Are you in the clouds? who are you? Are you in the clouds? who are you? Are you in the clouds? Like, can you show up? And then I Like, can you show up? And then I Like, can you show up? And then I remember on a family trip, I um saw a remember on a family trip, I um saw a remember on a family trip, I um saw a gospel film on the television. I asked gospel film on the television. I asked gospel film on the television. I asked my mom, "Who is that man?" And she said, my mom, "Who is that man?" And she said, my mom, "Who is that man?" And she said, "That's Jesus." And I said, "That looks "That's Jesus." And I said, "That looks "That's Jesus." And I said, "That looks like a very nice man." Oh, like a very nice man." Oh, like a very nice man." Oh, >> and it was the first time I re I figured >> and it was the first time I re I figured >> and it was the first time I re I figured out God's name and we almost died later out God's name and we almost died later out God's name and we almost died later that day. that day. that day. >> Our car flipped over twice in the Nevada >> Our car flipped over twice in the Nevada >> Our car flipped over twice in the Nevada desert, desert, desert, >> you know, and I think there was just >> you know, and I think there was just >> you know, and I think there was just something about me figuring out God's something about me figuring out God's something about me figuring out God's name that just shook the enemy, you name that just shook the enemy, you name that just shook the enemy, you know, and and so from then afterwards, I know, and and so from then afterwards, I know, and and so from then afterwards, I went to the library and asked the went to the library and asked the went to the library and asked the librarian, "Do you have any books on librarian, "Do you have any books on librarian, "Do you have any books on Jesus?" And she said, "Girl, you got to Jesus?" And she said, "Girl, you got to Jesus?" And she said, "Girl, you got to go to church." And so I I asked my mom go to church." And so I I asked my mom go to church." And so I I asked my mom to drop me off at church. So I've been to drop me off at church. So I've been to drop me off at church. So I've been just trying to figure out who is God and just trying to figure out who is God and just trying to figure out who is God and >> and what is what is his personality? >> and what is what is his personality? >> and what is what is his personality? Like what's his heart? Does he like me? Like what's his heart? Does he like me? Like what's his heart? Does he like me? Like what are what is he thinking? And I Like what are what is he thinking? And I Like what are what is he thinking? And I think this has just been my lifelong think this has just been my lifelong think this has just been my lifelong pursuit. And you know when I did become pursuit. And you know when I did become pursuit. And you know when I did become saved, my question was well what is he saved, my question was well what is he saved, my question was well what is he thinking when I don't feel him? When I'm thinking when I don't feel him? When I'm thinking when I don't feel him? When I'm not feeling that quote unquote fire of not feeling that quote unquote fire of not feeling that quote unquote fire of the Holy Spirit. And so I think yeah, the Holy Spirit. And so I think yeah, the Holy Spirit. And so I think yeah, that's been a near and dear message. And that's been a near and dear message. And that's been a near and dear message. And I and I think a lot of Christians, they I and I think a lot of Christians, they I and I think a lot of Christians, they feel the same. Like where is God when I feel the same. Like where is God when I feel the same. Like where is God when I lost my child?

lost my child? lost my child? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Like where is God at the diagnosis? >> Like where is God at the diagnosis? >> Like where is God at the diagnosis? Where is God when um the church that Where is God when um the church that Where is God when um the church that I've been at for 30 years failed me and I've been at for 30 years failed me and I've been at for 30 years failed me and broke apart? You know, where where is broke apart? You know, where where is broke apart? You know, where where is God in all of that? And to know, wait, God in all of that? And to know, wait, God in all of that? And to know, wait, no, he is with me. And just because I no, he is with me. And just because I no, he is with me. And just because I don't feel him does not negate who he don't feel him does not negate who he don't feel him does not negate who he is. Well, I think that explains your is. Well, I think that explains your is. Well, I think that explains your book, Experiencing Friendship with God. book, Experiencing Friendship with God. book, Experiencing Friendship with God. >> What is one of the blockers to >> What is one of the blockers to >> What is one of the blockers to experiencing Friendship with God? I, and experiencing Friendship with God? I, and experiencing Friendship with God? I, and I'm asking that not just as a general I'm asking that not just as a general I'm asking that not just as a general question, question, question, >> but I'm also very cerebral, as you can >> but I'm also very cerebral, as you can >> but I'm also very cerebral, as you can tell. You know, trained as a lawyer. I tell. You know, trained as a lawyer. I tell. You know, trained as a lawyer. I have that disposition. have that disposition. have that disposition. >> Uh, I'm very intellectual. If you ask me >> Uh, I'm very intellectual. If you ask me >> Uh, I'm very intellectual. If you ask me what I'm feeling, I'll tell you what I'm what I'm feeling, I'll tell you what I'm what I'm feeling, I'll tell you what I'm thinking, thinking, thinking, >> that kind of thing. And even at my >> that kind of thing. And even at my >> that kind of thing. And even at my devotions today, they're done. But like devotions today, they're done. But like devotions today, they're done. But like is it a box checked or did I really is it a box checked or did I really is it a box checked or did I really experience friendship with God? I ask experience friendship with God? I ask experience friendship with God? I ask myself that question on a regular basis. myself that question on a regular basis. myself that question on a regular basis. So So So >> what are some of the common blocks to >> what are some of the common blocks to >> what are some of the common blocks to experiencing friendship with God? experiencing friendship with God? experiencing friendship with God? >> I would say over complicating it, >> I would say over complicating it, >> I would say over complicating it, >> you know, um I think when we think it's >> you know, um I think when we think it's >> you know, um I think when we think it's just this grand thing. So if you got the just this grand thing. So if you got the just this grand thing. So if you got the book, you would know cuz it's so small.

book, you would know cuz it's so small. book, you would know cuz it's so small. >> It's a thin book. And to be honest, it's >> It's a thin book. And to be honest, it's >> It's a thin book. And to be honest, it's actually what drew me to brother actually what drew me to brother actually what drew me to brother Lawrence's book, The Practice of the Lawrence's book, The Practice of the Lawrence's book, The Practice of the Presence of God. It was so tiny and Presence of God. It was so tiny and Presence of God. It was so tiny and small. And I was thinking, okay, it's he small. And I was thinking, okay, it's he small. And I was thinking, okay, it's he seemed to have unlocked the key, the seemed to have unlocked the key, the seemed to have unlocked the key, the code to um having this real relationship code to um having this real relationship code to um having this real relationship with God. And yet it was so simple. He's with God. And yet it was so simple. He's with God. And yet it was so simple. He's like, I'm just peeling potatoes with like, I'm just peeling potatoes with like, I'm just peeling potatoes with God. Like it was so simple. And I think God. Like it was so simple. And I think God. Like it was so simple. And I think when people over complicate it, when when people over complicate it, when when people over complicate it, when they need to have a ritual for it, they need to have a ritual for it, they need to have a ritual for it, rituals are great. rituals are great. rituals are great. >> And when they need to go somewhere for >> And when they need to go somewhere for >> And when they need to go somewhere for it, I mean, going somewhere is great. it, I mean, going somewhere is great. it, I mean, going somewhere is great. when they need to hear a certain kind of when they need to hear a certain kind of when they need to hear a certain kind of preacher for it. I mean, those preachers preacher for it. I mean, those preachers preacher for it. I mean, those preachers are wonderful, but knowing that it's are wonderful, but knowing that it's are wonderful, but knowing that it's actually the blood of Jesus alone that actually the blood of Jesus alone that actually the blood of Jesus alone that gives you access to his presence. And gives you access to his presence. And gives you access to his presence. And so, knowing if you cannot go find holy so, knowing if you cannot go find holy so, knowing if you cannot go find holy ground, holy ground is wherever you are ground, holy ground is wherever you are ground, holy ground is wherever you are with the Holy Spirit, right? And so, with the Holy Spirit, right? And so, with the Holy Spirit, right? And so, knowing that, it's really as simple as knowing that, it's really as simple as knowing that, it's really as simple as acknowledging Jesus.

acknowledging Jesus. acknowledging Jesus. That's it. So even now as I'm speaking That's it. So even now as I'm speaking That's it. So even now as I'm speaking with you Carrie I'm just acknowledging with you Carrie I'm just acknowledging with you Carrie I'm just acknowledging Holy Spirit and I could feel his Holy Spirit and I could feel his Holy Spirit and I could feel his presence even now you know and so presence even now you know and so presence even now you know and so acknowledging him in all your ways and acknowledging him in all your ways and acknowledging him in all your ways and so it's and when people think oh that's so it's and when people think oh that's so it's and when people think oh that's it I go yeah that's actually really it it I go yeah that's actually really it it I go yeah that's actually really it you know when when you acknowledge him you know when when you acknowledge him you know when when you acknowledge him as you're as you're commuting to work as you're as you're commuting to work as you're as you're commuting to work acknowledging him as you're walking your acknowledging him as you're walking your acknowledging him as you're walking your dog acknowledging him then you develop dog acknowledging him then you develop dog acknowledging him then you develop this awareness that goes beyond a this awareness that goes beyond a this awareness that goes beyond a cerebral knowledge and starts to become cerebral knowledge and starts to become cerebral knowledge and starts to become an emotional understanding and even a an emotional understanding and even a an emotional understanding and even a physical awareness of his presence. physical awareness of his presence. physical awareness of his presence. >> I feel like you and Mark Batterson must >> I feel like you and Mark Batterson must >> I feel like you and Mark Batterson must be distant distant relatives. I feel be distant distant relatives. I feel be distant distant relatives. I feel like I'm I'm picking up some uh Mark like I'm I'm picking up some uh Mark like I'm I'm picking up some uh Mark vibes in that. So, the book's available vibes in that. So, the book's available vibes in that. So, the book's available everywhere. everywhere. everywhere. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Right. And where can people find you >> Right. And where can people find you >> Right. And where can people find you online? online? online? >> Oh, well, my Instagram is faith Cho. My >> Oh, well, my Instagram is faith Cho. My >> Oh, well, my Instagram is faith Cho. My website is faith yuri cho.com. website is faith yuri cho.com. website is faith yuri cho.com. >> There you go. Very available URL. >> There you go. Very available URL. >> There you go. Very available URL. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. >> Like Carrie Newuhoff. Not a lot of them. >> Like Carrie Newuhoff. Not a lot of them. >> Like Carrie Newuhoff. Not a lot of them. Right.

Right. Right. >> Right. Totally. Yeah. And I'm accessible >> Right. Totally. Yeah. And I'm accessible >> Right. Totally. Yeah. And I'm accessible there. Yeah. there. Yeah. there. Yeah. >> Awesome. Faith, thank you. >> Awesome. Faith, thank you. >> Awesome. Faith, thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you for having me.