How Wesley Huff Handled Joe Rogan: A Masterclass in Apologetics

he never corrected Joe Rogan's language he never corrected Joe Rogan's language or style uh if you know Joe Rogan for or style uh if you know Joe Rogan for or style uh if you know Joe Rogan for more than five minutes you know he's more than five minutes you know he's more than five minutes you know he's going to drop F bombs and that kind of going to drop F bombs and that kind of going to drop F bombs and that kind of thing and he did during the episode and thing and he did during the episode and thing and he did during the episode and Wes didn't blink he didn't correct him Wes didn't blink he didn't correct him Wes didn't blink he didn't correct him he didn't chide him he didn't make him he didn't chide him he didn't make him he didn't chide him he didn't make him feel like he was more Superior uh feel like he was more Superior uh feel like he was more Superior uh because he wasn't dropping F bombs and because he wasn't dropping F bombs and because he wasn't dropping F bombs and he just respected where Joe was at and he just respected where Joe was at and he just respected where Joe was at and he respected his knowledge and research he respected his knowledge and research he respected his knowledge and research welcome to the K newoff leadership welcome to the K newoff leadership welcome to the K newoff leadership podcast on YouTube I'm so glad you podcast on YouTube I'm so glad you podcast on YouTube I'm so glad you joined us if you're new here make sure joined us if you're new here make sure joined us if you're new here make sure you subscribe you will never miss an you subscribe you will never miss an you subscribe you will never miss an episode and today I'm going to episode and today I'm going to episode and today I'm going to deconstruct Wesley Huff's performance deconstruct Wesley Huff's performance deconstruct Wesley Huff's performance he's an apologist young apologist from he's an apologist young apologist from he's an apologist young apologist from Canada who debated Billy Carson did Canada who debated Billy Carson did Canada who debated Billy Carson did really well and then that got him an really well and then that got him an really well and then that got him an appearance on Joe Rogan and I think what appearance on Joe Rogan and I think what appearance on Joe Rogan and I think what he gives us in about 6 hours of content he gives us in about 6 hours of content he gives us in about 6 hours of content is a master class on how to do is a master class on how to do is a master class on how to do apologetics well we're going to break it apologetics well we're going to break it apologetics well we're going to break it down want to share four things in down want to share four things in down want to share four things in particular he did well and then five particular he did well and then five particular he did well and then five takeaways for you and me uh it is a takeaways for you and me uh it is a takeaways for you and me uh it is a really important conversation that I really important conversation that I really important conversation that I think we need to have in the church how think we need to have in the church how think we need to have in the church how to do apologetics better historically to do apologetics better historically to do apologetics better historically we've been a little bit defensive a we've been a little bit defensive a we've been a little bit defensive a little bit abrasive and West went in a little bit abrasive and West went in a little bit abrasive and West went in a totally different direction I think a totally different direction I think a totally different direction I think a really Winsome Direction and Joe Rogan really Winsome Direction and Joe Rogan really Winsome Direction and Joe Rogan had a very favorable response to what he had a very favorable response to what he had a very favorable response to what he shared on The Joe Rogan Experience so shared on The Joe Rogan Experience so shared on The Joe Rogan Experience so we're going to talk about all that what we're going to talk about all that what we're going to talk about all that what worked and what you can learn from it so worked and what you can learn from it so worked and what you can learn from it so a fun thing we're doing on this episode a fun thing we're doing on this episode a fun thing we're doing on this episode we're giving away five copies of my book we're giving away five copies of my book we're giving away five copies of my book at your best best it's all about getting at your best best it's all about getting at your best best it's all about getting time energy and priorities working in

time energy and priorities working in time energy and priorities working in your favor and the way to get it is just your favor and the way to get it is just your favor and the way to get it is just to type I want to live at my best in the to type I want to live at my best in the to type I want to live at my best in the comments and we'll get you a copy in the comments and we'll get you a copy in the comments and we'll get you a copy in the meantime let's hear from our sponsors meantime let's hear from our sponsors meantime let's hear from our sponsors and then to today's episode this episode and then to today's episode this episode and then to today's episode this episode is brought to you by Glue you know I'm is brought to you by Glue you know I'm is brought to you by Glue you know I'm always interested in the very latest of always interested in the very latest of always interested in the very latest of what's happening in Ministry and that's what's happening in Ministry and that's what's happening in Ministry and that's why I've got Brad Hill on from glue and why I've got Brad Hill on from glue and why I've got Brad Hill on from glue and Brad there's a pretty cool initiative Brad there's a pretty cool initiative Brad there's a pretty cool initiative happening with state of the church can happening with state of the church can happening with state of the church can you tell us a littleit about it yeah I you tell us a littleit about it yeah I you tell us a littleit about it yeah I would say to any Pastor leader Carrie would say to any Pastor leader Carrie would say to any Pastor leader Carrie this is the question if you really knew this is the question if you really knew this is the question if you really knew the health of your people and your the health of your people and your the health of your people and your church how would that change things like church how would that change things like church how would that change things like your programs your preaching your staff your programs your preaching your staff your programs your preaching your staff or your budgets I mean these are all the or your budgets I mean these are all the or your budgets I mean these are all the decisions we make day-to-day right so decisions we make day-to-day right so decisions we make day-to-day right so this is the idea behind the state of the this is the idea behind the state of the this is the idea behind the state of the church church church 2025 um we've got fresh research from 2025 um we've got fresh research from 2025 um we've got fresh research from Barna uh a lot of stories from pastors Barna uh a lot of stories from pastors Barna uh a lot of stories from pastors coming in who now they can see where coming in who now they can see where coming in who now they can see where their church is thriving their church is thriving their church is thriving and their people are flourishing and and their people are flourishing and and their people are flourishing and we've got a big event coming up on March we've got a big event coming up on March we've got a big event coming up on March 12th that is open to every single leader 12th that is open to every single leader 12th that is open to every single leader listening where we want to launch this listening where we want to launch this listening where we want to launch this and get it in the hands of as many and get it in the hands of as many and get it in the hands of as many churches as possible there's free tools churches as possible there's free tools churches as possible there's free tools that'll be released and those are all that'll be released and those are all that'll be released and those are all designed for you to see the state of designed for you to see the state of designed for you to see the state of your church uh so you're going to want your church uh so you're going to want your church uh so you're going to want to see this in person and then make to see this in person and then make to see this in person and then make plans to take advantage of it in your plans to take advantage of it in your plans to take advantage of it in your own church I've had a sneak peek at the own church I've had a sneak peek at the own church I've had a sneak peek at the data that's going to be released by The data that's going to be released by The data that's going to be released by The Bara group and it's pretty eye openening Bara group and it's pretty eye openening Bara group and it's pretty eye openening I'm I'm excited for I'll actually be I'm I'm excited for I'll actually be I'm I'm excited for I'll actually be co-hosting it along with nona Jones and co-hosting it along with nona Jones and co-hosting it along with nona Jones and then we've got David kinman Ed ster and

then we've got David kinman Ed ster and then we've got David kinman Ed ster and others presenting you'll be there Brad others presenting you'll be there Brad others presenting you'll be there Brad as well so that's March 12th starting at as well so that's March 12th starting at as well so that's March 12th starting at 1 Eastern you can register today for 1 Eastern you can register today for 1 Eastern you can register today for free by going to stateof thee church.com free by going to stateof thee church.com free by going to stateof thee church.com that's stateof thechurch.at line I thought Wes Huff on thechurch.at line I thought Wes Huff on Joe Rogan was a master class in modern Joe Rogan was a master class in modern Joe Rogan was a master class in modern apologetics okay so I first heard about apologetics okay so I first heard about apologetics okay so I first heard about the whole thing with westoff and Billy the whole thing with westoff and Billy the whole thing with westoff and Billy Carson and Joe Rogan he debated just to Carson and Joe Rogan he debated just to Carson and Joe Rogan he debated just to get the facts straight for those of you get the facts straight for those of you get the facts straight for those of you who are new to this conversation westoff who are new to this conversation westoff who are new to this conversation westoff is a Canadian apologist he uh is Young is a Canadian apologist he uh is Young is a Canadian apologist he uh is Young He's 33 and he ended up on Joe Rogan and He's 33 and he ended up on Joe Rogan and He's 33 and he ended up on Joe Rogan and the reason he ended up on The Joe Rogan the reason he ended up on The Joe Rogan the reason he ended up on The Joe Rogan Experience was because he had done a Experience was because he had done a Experience was because he had done a debate on another podcast with Billy debate on another podcast with Billy debate on another podcast with Billy Carson and he had done a really good job Carson and he had done a really good job Carson and he had done a really good job and Rogan had had Billy Carson on his and Rogan had had Billy Carson on his and Rogan had had Billy Carson on his podcast basically saying Christianity podcast basically saying Christianity podcast basically saying Christianity was a bit of a joke and you know Billy was a bit of a joke and you know Billy was a bit of a joke and you know Billy Carson does not believe like Wes Huff Carson does not believe like Wes Huff Carson does not believe like Wes Huff does and he said hey I had to give equal does and he said hey I had to give equal does and he said hey I had to give equal air time to the Christian side got Wes air time to the Christian side got Wes air time to the Christian side got Wes Huff on there and uh I was blown away by Huff on there and uh I was blown away by Huff on there and uh I was blown away by what Wes did so my phone had blown up what Wes did so my phone had blown up what Wes did so my phone had blown up like it hadn't blown up in a long time like it hadn't blown up in a long time like it hadn't blown up in a long time uh about an other podcast episode with uh about an other podcast episode with uh about an other podcast episode with people asking me if I knew Westley huff people asking me if I knew Westley huff people asking me if I knew Westley huff and uh whether I'd seen the Billy Carson and uh whether I'd seen the Billy Carson and uh whether I'd seen the Billy Carson West Huff debate or Rogan and I'm like West Huff debate or Rogan and I'm like West Huff debate or Rogan and I'm like no I have not seen this so after about no I have not seen this so after about no I have not seen this so after about 10 or 15 texts you know over a few days 10 or 15 texts you know over a few days 10 or 15 texts you know over a few days I'm like okay I got to go and

I'm like okay I got to go and I'm like okay I got to go and investigate so the first thing I'll say investigate so the first thing I'll say investigate so the first thing I'll say is you know because everybody knows one is you know because everybody knows one is you know because everybody knows one Canadian me and then they're like hey do Canadian me and then they're like hey do Canadian me and then they're like hey do you know this other guy and I'm like you you know this other guy and I'm like you you know this other guy and I'm like you know probably not then I looked I know probably not then I looked I know probably not then I looked I thought he looks really familiar it thought he looks really familiar it thought he looks really familiar it actually turns out I do know uh Wes Huff actually turns out I do know uh Wes Huff actually turns out I do know uh Wes Huff we have met he was best man at my we have met he was best man at my we have met he was best man at my niece's wedding about a decade ago and I niece's wedding about a decade ago and I niece's wedding about a decade ago and I was blown away by what I saw okay the was blown away by what I saw okay the was blown away by what I saw okay the YouTube video of the Rogan episode when YouTube video of the Rogan episode when YouTube video of the Rogan episode when I saw was up for a few days had millions I saw was up for a few days had millions I saw was up for a few days had millions of views already same with the Billy of views already same with the Billy of views already same with the Billy Carson debate and personally I just Carson debate and personally I just Carson debate and personally I just think that Wes crushed it he did so well think that Wes crushed it he did so well think that Wes crushed it he did so well and you and me should be taking notes so and you and me should be taking notes so and you and me should be taking notes so I think you know when you think about I think you know when you think about I think you know when you think about the opportunity a Christian rarely gets the opportunity a Christian rarely gets the opportunity a Christian rarely gets an opportunity to be on the biggest an opportunity to be on the biggest an opportunity to be on the biggest podcast in the world to talk about his podcast in the world to talk about his podcast in the world to talk about his or her faith uh when you end up having or her faith uh when you end up having or her faith uh when you end up having that opportunity as Wes did you end up that opportunity as Wes did you end up that opportunity as Wes did you end up reaching a young often male audience reaching a young often male audience reaching a young often male audience that's usually pretty skeptical of that's usually pretty skeptical of that's usually pretty skeptical of religious content Joe Rogan obviously is religious content Joe Rogan obviously is religious content Joe Rogan obviously is open spiritually uh you can tell that if open spiritually uh you can tell that if open spiritually uh you can tell that if you look at the conversation if you you look at the conversation if you you look at the conversation if you watch it if you listen um but typically watch it if you listen um but typically watch it if you listen um but typically his audience is not all right they're his audience is not all right they're his audience is not all right they're they're kind of skeptical of religious they're kind of skeptical of religious they're kind of skeptical of religious content uh I thought Wes also content uh I thought Wes also content uh I thought Wes also demonstrated how to engage secular demonstrated how to engage secular demonstrated how to engage secular spaces really effectively so as we kind spaces really effectively so as we kind spaces really effectively so as we kind of pull away lessons what I want to do of pull away lessons what I want to do of pull away lessons what I want to do is I want to drill down on three major is I want to drill down on three major is I want to drill down on three major things that Wes got right and then look things that Wes got right and then look things that Wes got right and then look at four takeaways for you me and modern at four takeaways for you me and modern at four takeaways for you me and modern apologetic all right so what did Wes apologetic all right so what did Wes apologetic all right so what did Wes actually get right well if there's one

actually get right well if there's one actually get right well if there's one principle that underscores everything principle that underscores everything principle that underscores everything I'm going to share with you it's this I'm going to share with you it's this I'm going to share with you it's this Wes won hearts by humbly engaging Minds Wes won hearts by humbly engaging Minds Wes won hearts by humbly engaging Minds he won people's heart I think he won Joe he won people's heart I think he won Joe he won people's heart I think he won Joe Rogan's heart I think he won the Rogan's heart I think he won the Rogan's heart I think he won the audience's heart uh both during the audience's heart uh both during the audience's heart uh both during the Billy Carson debate but especially Billy Carson debate but especially Billy Carson debate but especially during the Rogan episode and he did it during the Rogan episode and he did it during the Rogan episode and he did it by humbly engaging people's minds that's by humbly engaging people's minds that's by humbly engaging people's minds that's an approach that many of us including me an approach that many of us including me an approach that many of us including me could learn from because often you know could learn from because often you know could learn from because often you know apologetics has a tinge of arrogance to apologetics has a tinge of arrogance to apologetics has a tinge of arrogance to it has a t tinge of like I'm right it has a t tinge of like I'm right it has a t tinge of like I'm right you're wrong let me show you what's you're wrong let me show you what's you're wrong let me show you what's going on so I want to break that down going on so I want to break that down going on so I want to break that down and how do you win Hearts by humbly and how do you win Hearts by humbly and how do you win Hearts by humbly engaging mind so he did three things engaging mind so he did three things engaging mind so he did three things very very well the first is deep very very well the first is deep very very well the first is deep intellectual preparation I mean I intellectual preparation I mean I intellectual preparation I mean I couldn't believe all right I spent I couldn't believe all right I spent I couldn't believe all right I spent I spent 10 years 11 years in University uh spent 10 years 11 years in University uh spent 10 years 11 years in University uh I studied at Seminary law school all I studied at Seminary law school all I studied at Seminary law school all that stuff I just couldn't believe at that stuff I just couldn't believe at that stuff I just couldn't believe at age 33 everything he knew about history age 33 everything he knew about history age 33 everything he knew about history everything he knew about the papyruses everything he knew about the papyruses everything he knew about the papyruses all the languages that he spoke I mean all the languages that he spoke I mean all the languages that he spoke I mean the guy at age 33 I believe that's how the guy at age 33 I believe that's how the guy at age 33 I believe that's how old he is has the learning and academic old he is has the learning and academic old he is has the learning and academic knowledge of a 70-year-old professor in knowledge of a 70-year-old professor in knowledge of a 70-year-old professor in other words he had done his homework and other words he had done his homework and other words he had done his homework and he could take on any intellectual so he he could take on any intellectual so he he could take on any intellectual so he had wisdom Beyond his ear knowledge had wisdom Beyond his ear knowledge had wisdom Beyond his ear knowledge Beyond his years basically I don't know Beyond his years basically I don't know Beyond his years basically I don't know how long he's been studying 15 20 years how long he's been studying 15 20 years how long he's been studying 15 20 years but he is an expert in his field now he

but he is an expert in his field now he but he is an expert in his field now he had deep intellectual preparation but had deep intellectual preparation but had deep intellectual preparation but there was some very crucial moments in there was some very crucial moments in there was some very crucial moments in the Rogan episode when Rogan would ask the Rogan episode when Rogan would ask the Rogan episode when Rogan would ask him a question and he admitted he didn't him a question and he admitted he didn't him a question and he admitted he didn't know something rather than bluffing I know something rather than bluffing I know something rather than bluffing I mean honestly I've probably bluffed at mean honestly I've probably bluffed at mean honestly I've probably bluffed at different times we definitely have done different times we definitely have done different times we definitely have done that right you know when you have that that right you know when you have that that right you know when you have that moment it was sort of like uh like moment it was sort of like uh like moment it was sort of like uh like Joseph standing for Pharaoh going you Joseph standing for Pharaoh going you Joseph standing for Pharaoh going you know I can't interpret that dream but I know I can't interpret that dream but I know I can't interpret that dream but I know a God who can it's that kind of know a God who can it's that kind of know a God who can it's that kind of humility that really showed out and he humility that really showed out and he humility that really showed out and he did that numerous times in the did that numerous times in the did that numerous times in the conversation where he admitted he didn't conversation where he admitted he didn't conversation where he admitted he didn't know something rather than just bluffing know something rather than just bluffing know something rather than just bluffing the other thing he did that I think the other thing he did that I think the other thing he did that I think really helped his credibility was he really helped his credibility was he really helped his credibility was he self-corrected so he uploaded a YouTube self-corrected so he uploaded a YouTube self-corrected so he uploaded a YouTube video to his own YouTube channel called video to his own YouTube channel called video to his own YouTube channel called Wesley Huff exposes Wesley huff and what Wesley Huff exposes Wesley huff and what Wesley Huff exposes Wesley huff and what he did was he went through different he did was he went through different he did was he went through different clips of the Rogue an episode showing clips of the Rogue an episode showing clips of the Rogue an episode showing where he made some mistakes like he where he made some mistakes like he where he made some mistakes like he misquoted a few things now they were misquoted a few things now they were misquoted a few things now they were really minor but for him to do that I really minor but for him to do that I really minor but for him to do that I think showed great intellectual think showed great intellectual think showed great intellectual commitment and rigor another thing that commitment and rigor another thing that commitment and rigor another thing that I thought he did really well in his I thought he did really well in his I thought he did really well in his preparation and this again wasn't just preparation and this again wasn't just preparation and this again wasn't just prep for the interview this is how he prep for the interview this is how he prep for the interview this is how he approaches his his craft he's a approaches his his craft he's a approaches his his craft he's a historian he's working on his Doctorate historian he's working on his Doctorate historian he's working on his Doctorate but he had a deep knowledge of both but he had a deep knowledge of both but he had a deep knowledge of both Christian and opposing view points right Christian and opposing view points right Christian and opposing view points right when I was in law one of the best when I was in law one of the best when I was in law one of the best strategies you could have is you have to strategies you could have is you have to strategies you could have is you have to understand your case but you also have understand your case but you also have understand your case but you also have to understand your opponent's case

to understand your opponent's case to understand your opponent's case hopefully better than your opponent does hopefully better than your opponent does hopefully better than your opponent does and you have to understand what the and you have to understand what the and you have to understand what the judge needs in order for the judge to judge needs in order for the judge to judge needs in order for the judge to rule in your favor if you can do that rule in your favor if you can do that rule in your favor if you can do that you're going to win some cases and you're going to win some cases and you're going to win some cases and that's what Wes did really well he knew that's what Wes did really well he knew that's what Wes did really well he knew his case but he also knew what the his case but he also knew what the his case but he also knew what the opposing side was thinking and he could opposing side was thinking and he could opposing side was thinking and he could empathize anticipate and then come back empathize anticipate and then come back empathize anticipate and then come back with another viewpoint point he also had with another viewpoint point he also had with another viewpoint point he also had an astounding command of historical and an astounding command of historical and an astounding command of historical and textual evidence I mean he had whole textual evidence I mean he had whole textual evidence I mean he had whole categories of knowledge again four-year categories of knowledge again four-year categories of knowledge again four-year Seminary degree I'm like yeah I didn't Seminary degree I'm like yeah I didn't Seminary degree I'm like yeah I didn't touch that and I took classes at some of touch that and I took classes at some of touch that and I took classes at some of the places where he got his undergrad the places where he got his undergrad the places where he got his undergrad because we're both Canadian so I mean I because we're both Canadian so I mean I because we're both Canadian so I mean I get it he just knows his stuff and if get it he just knows his stuff and if get it he just knows his stuff and if you're going to go up against other you're going to go up against other you're going to go up against other people particularly in a public sphere people particularly in a public sphere people particularly in a public sphere you should really have prepared you you should really have prepared you you should really have prepared you should be ready right I think at this should be ready right I think at this should be ready right I think at this point in my life it's like stick to your point in my life it's like stick to your point in my life it's like stick to your lane I get approached to talk on a wide lane I get approached to talk on a wide lane I get approached to talk on a wide variety of subjects I'm like I know you variety of subjects I'm like I know you variety of subjects I'm like I know you know a lot about a little uh but not a know a lot about a little uh but not a know a lot about a little uh but not a little but a lot so stick to your lane little but a lot so stick to your lane little but a lot so stick to your lane that's his Lane he was exactly ready for that's his Lane he was exactly ready for that's his Lane he was exactly ready for that moment so uh it was deep that moment so uh it was deep that moment so uh it was deep intellectual preparation that got him intellectual preparation that got him intellectual preparation that got him ready for that moment and one of those ready for that moment and one of those ready for that moment and one of those things where you know when God is things where you know when God is things where you know when God is shaping you you're basically prepared shaping you you're basically prepared shaping you you're basically prepared for a moment like that he didn't know a for a moment like that he didn't know a for a moment like that he didn't know a month in advance that he was going to month in advance that he was going to month in advance that he was going to get a call from Rogan but he had been get a call from Rogan but he had been get a call from Rogan but he had been prepping for that for years so if you prepping for that for years so if you prepping for that for years so if you want to become an expert in something want to become an expert in something want to become an expert in something what do you do you start today okay what do you do you start today okay what do you do you start today okay second thing he did really well and I second thing he did really well and I second thing he did really well and I think this is a showcase is he showed a

think this is a showcase is he showed a think this is a showcase is he showed a high relational intelligence as I hinted high relational intelligence as I hinted high relational intelligence as I hinted at earlier Christians can be pretty at earlier Christians can be pretty at earlier Christians can be pretty combative sometimes in apologetics it's combative sometimes in apologetics it's combative sometimes in apologetics it's like I'm right you're wrong he didn't like I'm right you're wrong he didn't like I'm right you're wrong he didn't give off that Vibe at all he had a very give off that Vibe at all he had a very give off that Vibe at all he had a very non-combative approach in his response non-combative approach in his response non-combative approach in his response with Billy Carson so if you go back to with Billy Carson so if you go back to with Billy Carson so if you go back to the debate that actually got him on the debate that actually got him on the debate that actually got him on Rogan he got interrupted a lot he had Rogan he got interrupted a lot he had Rogan he got interrupted a lot he had internet issues with that but like you internet issues with that but like you internet issues with that but like you know the host and Billy Carson kept know the host and Billy Carson kept know the host and Billy Carson kept interrupting him kind of insulted him interrupting him kind of insulted him interrupting him kind of insulted him from time to time he was just from time to time he was just from time to time he was just non-combative he would just come back to non-combative he would just come back to non-combative he would just come back to the facts now on the Rogan show he never the facts now on the Rogan show he never the facts now on the Rogan show he never corrected Joe Rogan's language or style corrected Joe Rogan's language or style corrected Joe Rogan's language or style if you know Joe Rogan for more than five if you know Joe Rogan for more than five if you know Joe Rogan for more than five minutes you know he's going to drop F minutes you know he's going to drop F minutes you know he's going to drop F bombs and that kind of thing and he did bombs and that kind of thing and he did bombs and that kind of thing and he did during the episode and Wes didn't blink during the episode and Wes didn't blink during the episode and Wes didn't blink he didn't correct him he didn't chide he didn't correct him he didn't chide he didn't correct him he didn't chide him he didn't make him feel like he was him he didn't make him feel like he was him he didn't make him feel like he was more Superior uh because he wasn't more Superior uh because he wasn't more Superior uh because he wasn't dropping F bombs and he just respected dropping F bombs and he just respected dropping F bombs and he just respected where Joe was at and he respected his where Joe was at and he respected his where Joe was at and he respected his knowledge and research and I think that knowledge and research and I think that knowledge and research and I think that is a really good approach so he didn't is a really good approach so he didn't is a really good approach so he didn't also and this is like an intangible but also and this is like an intangible but also and this is like an intangible but this is my take on it Wes didn't let the this is my take on it Wes didn't let the this is my take on it Wes didn't let the moment go to his head all right he could moment go to his head all right he could moment go to his head all right he could have said all right this is my moment have said all right this is my moment have said all right this is my moment I'm going to shine I'm going to blow I'm going to shine I'm going to blow I'm going to shine I'm going to blow everybody else away no he just humbly everybody else away no he just humbly everybody else away no he just humbly answered the questions he was curious he answered the questions he was curious he answered the questions he was curious he was open and he had this incredible was open and he had this incredible was open and he had this incredible background of knowledge that honestly background of knowledge that honestly background of knowledge that honestly blew Joe Rogan away so the other thing blew Joe Rogan away so the other thing blew Joe Rogan away so the other thing he did was he used accessible language

he did was he used accessible language he did was he used accessible language while maintaining his intellectual depth while maintaining his intellectual depth while maintaining his intellectual depth he could have gone all Professor on us he could have gone all Professor on us he could have gone all Professor on us where you know he was saying things that where you know he was saying things that where you know he was saying things that not even graduate students would not even graduate students would not even graduate students would understand he definitely has that depth understand he definitely has that depth understand he definitely has that depth he didn't do it he made it clear that he he didn't do it he made it clear that he he didn't do it he made it clear that he had done the research but then he used had done the research but then he used had done the research but then he used it in conversational language and I it in conversational language and I it in conversational language and I think that's a sign of humility and also think that's a sign of humility and also think that's a sign of humility and also High relational intelligence all right High relational intelligence all right High relational intelligence all right third thing is he was theologically third thing is he was theologically third thing is he was theologically solid and respectful sometimes we can be solid and respectful sometimes we can be solid and respectful sometimes we can be theologically respectful and wishy-washy theologically respectful and wishy-washy theologically respectful and wishy-washy sometimes we can be theologically solid sometimes we can be theologically solid sometimes we can be theologically solid and kind of rigid and abrasive and and kind of rigid and abrasive and and kind of rigid and abrasive and difficult so I I noticed a couple of difficult so I I noticed a couple of difficult so I I noticed a couple of things for example Rogan asked him about things for example Rogan asked him about things for example Rogan asked him about Genesis 1 like is that a literal Genesis 1 like is that a literal Genesis 1 like is that a literal creation of the world is it like what is creation of the world is it like what is creation of the world is it like what is that and what was interesting is Wes that and what was interesting is Wes that and what was interesting is Wes gave his view but then he said there are gave his view but then he said there are gave his view but then he said there are other sincere Christians who hold other sincere Christians who hold other sincere Christians who hold different views about how this works and different views about how this works and different views about how this works and he opened up the possibility that there he opened up the possibility that there he opened up the possibility that there was more than one way to read certain was more than one way to read certain was more than one way to read certain biblical texts so he respected various biblical texts so he respected various biblical texts so he respected various serious Christian viewpoints on issues serious Christian viewpoints on issues serious Christian viewpoints on issues where Christian disagree often as a where Christian disagree often as a where Christian disagree often as a Christian will say h this is the only Christian will say h this is the only Christian will say h this is the only way to see it this is the way to do it I way to see it this is the way to do it I way to see it this is the way to do it I think we lose friends and de Influence think we lose friends and de Influence think we lose friends and de Influence People when we do that he seemed to be People when we do that he seemed to be People when we do that he seemed to be very open um and again but very Tethered very open um and again but very Tethered very open um and again but very Tethered to truth you've got to before you to truth you've got to before you to truth you've got to before you comment on this please go and listen to comment on this please go and listen to comment on this please go and listen to six hours of conversation with Wes Huff six hours of conversation with Wes Huff six hours of conversation with Wes Huff Joe Rogan and then the Carson debate and Joe Rogan and then the Carson debate and Joe Rogan and then the Carson debate and then come back and leave your comment then come back and leave your comment then come back and leave your comment because you've got to understand the because you've got to understand the because you've got to understand the context but I thought he did that really

context but I thought he did that really context but I thought he did that really well and then he drew some very clear well and then he drew some very clear well and then he drew some very clear lines on essential beliefs uh while lines on essential beliefs uh while lines on essential beliefs uh while remaining gracious about secondary remaining gracious about secondary remaining gracious about secondary issues and I think that's just good issues and I think that's just good issues and I think that's just good theology so those are the three things theology so those are the three things theology so those are the three things he did really well deep intellectual he did really well deep intellectual he did really well deep intellectual preparation uh High relational preparation uh High relational preparation uh High relational intelligence and he was theologically intelligence and he was theologically intelligence and he was theologically solid but also respectful of different solid but also respectful of different solid but also respectful of different views and very respective of Joe's views views and very respective of Joe's views views and very respective of Joe's views he was kind of curious about that so he was kind of curious about that so he was kind of curious about that so those are the three things he did well those are the three things he did well those are the three things he did well now I want to jump into four takeaways now I want to jump into four takeaways now I want to jump into four takeaways but before we jump into the four but before we jump into the four but before we jump into the four takeaways I also want you to know I've takeaways I also want you to know I've takeaways I also want you to know I've thought a lot about apologetics over the thought a lot about apologetics over the thought a lot about apologetics over the years as well I have a good friend Mark years as well I have a good friend Mark years as well I have a good friend Mark Clark and we have spent over a quarter Clark and we have spent over a quarter Clark and we have spent over a quarter Century well 50 years if you really put Century well 50 years if you really put Century well 50 years if you really put our lives together preaching to our lives together preaching to our lives together preaching to post-christian culture and what Mark and post-christian culture and what Mark and post-christian culture and what Mark and I realized is got to engage it I realized is got to engage it I realized is got to engage it differently so uh what we've done is we differently so uh what we've done is we differently so uh what we've done is we put something together called The Art of put something together called The Art of put something together called The Art of reaching it's course that you can get uh reaching it's course that you can get uh reaching it's course that you can get uh Mark Clark is an expert in apologetics Mark Clark is an expert in apologetics Mark Clark is an expert in apologetics one of the most sought-after preachers one of the most sought-after preachers one of the most sought-after preachers in America today he moved from Vancouver in America today he moved from Vancouver in America today he moved from Vancouver down to Sacramento he grew a church in down to Sacramento he grew a church in down to Sacramento he grew a church in Vancouver from 0er to 5,000 in hyp Vancouver from 0er to 5,000 in hyp Vancouver from 0er to 5,000 in hyp secular culture so in the art of secular culture so in the art of secular culture so in the art of reaching Mark and I talk about practical reaching Mark and I talk about practical reaching Mark and I talk about practical strategies insights and basically if you strategies insights and basically if you strategies insights and basically if you want to engage apologetically and want to engage apologetically and want to engage apologetically and otherwise unchurched people in a otherwise unchurched people in a otherwise unchurched people in a conversation about faith we show you conversation about faith we show you conversation about faith we show you exactly how to do that so check out the exactly how to do that so check out the exactly how to do that so check out the link in the description wherever you're link in the description wherever you're link in the description wherever you're listening to this show so with that said

listening to this show so with that said listening to this show so with that said what are the lessons for modern Faith what are the lessons for modern Faith what are the lessons for modern Faith conversations lesson number one no conversations lesson number one no conversations lesson number one no surprise here do your homework do your surprise here do your homework do your surprise here do your homework do your homework do your homework do your homework do your homework do your homework do your homework do your homework all right don't let your homework all right don't let your homework all right don't let your confidence exceed your confidence exceed your confidence exceed your intelligence okay if you look at social intelligence okay if you look at social intelligence okay if you look at social media there's a lot lot of people whose media there's a lot lot of people whose media there's a lot lot of people whose confidence exceeds their intelligence confidence exceeds their intelligence confidence exceeds their intelligence let your intelligence exceed your let your intelligence exceed your let your intelligence exceed your confidence and obviously you want some confidence and obviously you want some confidence and obviously you want some humility thrown in with that as well uh humility thrown in with that as well uh humility thrown in with that as well uh a common Pitfall is that Christians make a common Pitfall is that Christians make a common Pitfall is that Christians make factually incorrect statements if you do factually incorrect statements if you do factually incorrect statements if you do and we're all prone to do that correct and we're all prone to do that correct and we're all prone to do that correct yourself go on the record like he did yourself go on the record like he did yourself go on the record like he did you build credibility through knowledge you build credibility through knowledge you build credibility through knowledge when you really know your field and when you really know your field and when you really know your field and again I'm I'm you know not a historian I again I'm I'm you know not a historian I again I'm I'm you know not a historian I have a degree in history that was my have a degree in history that was my have a degree in history that was my first degree not a historian but make first degree not a historian but make first degree not a historian but make sure that when you're speaking about sure that when you're speaking about sure that when you're speaking about something you know what you're speaking something you know what you're speaking something you know what you're speaking about understand your own position but about understand your own position but about understand your own position but also work really hard to understand also work really hard to understand also work really hard to understand other people's perspectives deeply be other people's perspectives deeply be other people's perspectives deeply be sensitive to the people you're talking sensitive to the people you're talking sensitive to the people you're talking about and don't write them off as dumb about and don't write them off as dumb about and don't write them off as dumb okay so you want to do your homework you okay so you want to do your homework you okay so you want to do your homework you want to understand why do intelligent want to understand why do intelligent want to understand why do intelligent people believe that why are there people believe that why are there people believe that why are there atheists who are actually intelligent atheists who are actually intelligent atheists who are actually intelligent people and and that will show when you people and and that will show when you people and and that will show when you do your homework and then you want to do your homework and then you want to do your homework and then you want to stay current with scholar ship and stay current with scholar ship and stay current with scholar ship and cultural conversations and of course a cultural conversations and of course a cultural conversations and of course a part of that is admitting when you don't part of that is admitting when you don't part of that is admitting when you don't know there were numerous times on the know there were numerous times on the know there were numerous times on the Rogan episode where Wes simply said you Rogan episode where Wes simply said you Rogan episode where Wes simply said you know I really don't know but that's a know I really don't know but that's a know I really don't know but that's a great question that's an excellent great question that's an excellent great question that's an excellent approach don't outp punt your coverage

approach don't outp punt your coverage approach don't outp punt your coverage intellectually second thing you can do intellectually second thing you can do intellectually second thing you can do is hone your relational skills you want is hone your relational skills you want is hone your relational skills you want to respect differing viewpoints you want to respect differing viewpoints you want to respect differing viewpoints you want to avoid arrogance and combativeness you to avoid arrogance and combativeness you to avoid arrogance and combativeness you want to learn to read the room right want to learn to read the room right want to learn to read the room right like is somebody really going there like is somebody really going there like is somebody really going there toward the end of The Joe Rogan toward the end of The Joe Rogan toward the end of The Joe Rogan interview I was thinking oh if I was interview I was thinking oh if I was interview I was thinking oh if I was there I would ask Joe what do you there I would ask Joe what do you there I would ask Joe what do you believe spiritually and that's exactly believe spiritually and that's exactly believe spiritually and that's exactly what Billy did he said well where are what Billy did he said well where are what Billy did he said well where are you on Jesus I thought oh that was you on Jesus I thought oh that was you on Jesus I thought oh that was brilliant like he read the room he could brilliant like he read the room he could brilliant like he read the room he could see that Joe was very open and he asked see that Joe was very open and he asked see that Joe was very open and he asked the question and then what another thing the question and then what another thing the question and then what another thing you want to do if you're talking about you want to do if you're talking about you want to do if you're talking about this like in conversations or publicly this like in conversations or publicly this like in conversations or publicly is you want to adapt your communication is you want to adapt your communication is you want to adapt your communication style to your audience that's what you style to your audience that's what you style to your audience that's what you want to do every audience is not the want to do every audience is not the want to do every audience is not the same you can see that in his debate with same you can see that in his debate with same you can see that in his debate with Billy Carson had a bit of a different Billy Carson had a bit of a different Billy Carson had a bit of a different approach than with Rogan Rogan is way approach than with Rogan Rogan is way approach than with Rogan Rogan is way more collegial and conversational and at more collegial and conversational and at more collegial and conversational and at the end of the day you want to be the end of the day you want to be the end of the day you want to be building bridges rather than walls building bridges rather than walls building bridges rather than walls that's a really important Point like it that's a really important Point like it that's a really important Point like it was those were long conversations but was those were long conversations but was those were long conversations but the way Wes handled himself it kind of the way Wes handled himself it kind of the way Wes handled himself it kind of felt like oh this is the beginning of felt like oh this is the beginning of felt like oh this is the beginning of the conversation not the end like two the conversation not the end like two the conversation not the end like two hours later three hours later slam dunk hours later three hours later slam dunk hours later three hours later slam dunk you're a Christian let's baptize you no you're a Christian let's baptize you no you're a Christian let's baptize you no the conversation is often ongoing the conversation is often ongoing the conversation is often ongoing sometimes it happens that it start to sometimes it happens that it start to sometimes it happens that it start to finish in an hour uh no so you want to finish in an hour uh no so you want to finish in an hour uh no so you want to build Bridges rather than walls and then build Bridges rather than walls and then build Bridges rather than walls and then the third thing is find a humble the third thing is find a humble the third thing is find a humble Authority find a humble Authority I Authority find a humble Authority I Authority find a humble Authority I think you know that embodied Jesus well think you know that embodied Jesus well think you know that embodied Jesus well I thought Wes did that really well you I thought Wes did that really well you I thought Wes did that really well you want to admit your knowledge gaps you

want to admit your knowledge gaps you want to admit your knowledge gaps you want to be willing to learn from others want to be willing to learn from others want to be willing to learn from others it's like I didn't know that that is a it's like I didn't know that that is a it's like I didn't know that that is a really good point thank you so much for really good point thank you so much for really good point thank you so much for sharing that you want to hold your sharing that you want to hold your sharing that you want to hold your convictions without being combative convictions without being combative convictions without being combative there's a lot of combativeness in the there's a lot of combativeness in the there's a lot of combativeness in the church right now I I think that's going church right now I I think that's going church right now I I think that's going to backfire against us I don't think to backfire against us I don't think to backfire against us I don't think that's winning us people it's going to that's winning us people it's going to that's winning us people it's going to win you know your tribe's going to get win you know your tribe's going to get win you know your tribe's going to get all fired up yeah you tell them right all fired up yeah you tell them right all fired up yeah you tell them right but I don't know that that's going to but I don't know that that's going to but I don't know that that's going to really work uh with the culture right really work uh with the culture right really work uh with the culture right now and then let let your preparation now and then let let your preparation now and then let let your preparation speak for itself you don't have to speak for itself you don't have to speak for itself you don't have to defend yourself if you know your craft defend yourself if you know your craft defend yourself if you know your craft if you know your field uh they're going if you know your field uh they're going if you know your field uh they're going to be blown away by what you know and to be blown away by what you know and to be blown away by what you know and then when you do that you can speak the then when you do that you can speak the then when you do that you can speak the truth without being defensive right you truth without being defensive right you truth without being defensive right you don't have to defend anything um you can don't have to defend anything um you can don't have to defend anything um you can just say well this is what I believe or just say well this is what I believe or just say well this is what I believe or this is what's true or this what the this is what's true or this what the this is what's true or this what the manuscripts say or etc etc and then the manuscripts say or etc etc and then the manuscripts say or etc etc and then the fourth thing and I wanted to really fourth thing and I wanted to really fourth thing and I wanted to really Elevate this is practice engaged Elevate this is practice engaged Elevate this is practice engaged listening so you can go in and I think listening so you can go in and I think listening so you can go in and I think this is a good thing I try to do this on this is a good thing I try to do this on this is a good thing I try to do this on my podcast when I do a couple of of my podcast when I do a couple of of my podcast when I do a couple of of conversations on my podcast I'm tired conversations on my podcast I'm tired conversations on my podcast I'm tired after because what am I doing I've come after because what am I doing I've come after because what am I doing I've come prepped but I'm listening trying to pay prepped but I'm listening trying to pay prepped but I'm listening trying to pay attention Wes did that really well he attention Wes did that really well he attention Wes did that really well he focused on understanding the question focused on understanding the question focused on understanding the question and the guest before responding he asked and the guest before responding he asked and the guest before responding he asked asked genuine questions not staged asked genuine questions not staged asked genuine questions not staged questions he showed an interest in other questions he showed an interest in other questions he showed an interest in other people's perspectives he created space people's perspectives he created space people's perspectives he created space for like real dialogue I mean he just for like real dialogue I mean he just for like real dialogue I mean he just did a very good job on that so this did a very good job on that so this did a very good job on that so this didn't feel like a slam dunk argument

didn't feel like a slam dunk argument didn't feel like a slam dunk argument but more like an but more like an but more like an invitation to more dialogue and I think invitation to more dialogue and I think invitation to more dialogue and I think you want to do that you really want to you want to do that you really want to you want to do that you really want to be in a place where uh you are be in a place where uh you are be in a place where uh you are encouraging more dialogue so those are encouraging more dialogue so those are encouraging more dialogue so those are some thoughts that's why I think it's an some thoughts that's why I think it's an some thoughts that's why I think it's an apologetics master class for us so what apologetics master class for us so what apologetics master class for us so what else can you do well study both else can you do well study both else can you do well study both Christian and secular sources if you're Christian and secular sources if you're Christian and secular sources if you're going to be an apologist you got to know going to be an apologist you got to know going to be an apologist you got to know the quote opponent's enemy your friend the quote opponent's enemy your friend the quote opponent's enemy your friend as we would call it in the law your as we would call it in the law your as we would call it in the law your friend's enemy you want to build friend's enemy you want to build friend's enemy you want to build relationships probably with people of relationships probably with people of relationships probably with people of different beliefs you want to really different beliefs you want to really different beliefs you want to really understand like why do Muslims believe understand like why do Muslims believe understand like why do Muslims believe what they believe you know they're not what they believe you know they're not what they believe you know they're not all crazy Believe It or Not atheist are all crazy Believe It or Not atheist are all crazy Believe It or Not atheist are not all crazy agnostics are not all not all crazy agnostics are not all not all crazy agnostics are not all crazy so you want to build relationships crazy so you want to build relationships crazy so you want to build relationships with people of different beliefs and with people of different beliefs and with people of different beliefs and really seek to understand you probably really seek to understand you probably really seek to understand you probably want to get some reps in you know Wes want to get some reps in you know Wes want to get some reps in you know Wes had done a lot of debates he had done a had done a lot of debates he had done a had done a lot of debates he had done a lot of interviews before Joe Rogan so lot of interviews before Joe Rogan so lot of interviews before Joe Rogan so you want to practice discussing Faith you want to practice discussing Faith you want to practice discussing Faith with non-christians rather than just with non-christians rather than just with non-christians rather than just going on your social becoming an going on your social becoming an going on your social becoming an apologist or that kind of thing and you apologist or that kind of thing and you apologist or that kind of thing and you want to learn to articulate your beliefs want to learn to articulate your beliefs want to learn to articulate your beliefs clearly and graciously and above all do clearly and graciously and above all do clearly and graciously and above all do your homework be an expert expert become your homework be an expert expert become your homework be an expert expert become an expert and speak out of your an expert and speak out of your an expert and speak out of your expertise even if it's a very narrow expertise even if it's a very narrow expertise even if it's a very narrow Lane which mine is uh just admit it I Lane which mine is uh just admit it I Lane which mine is uh just admit it I got a real Narrow Lane so as Christians got a real Narrow Lane so as Christians got a real Narrow Lane so as Christians you know we got to raise our game you know we got to raise our game you know we got to raise our game intellectually and we also have to raise intellectually and we also have to raise intellectually and we also have to raise it it it relationally so I hope this has helped

relationally so I hope this has helped relationally so I hope this has helped remember you have an opportunity to to remember you have an opportunity to to remember you have an opportunity to to check out my art of reaching course just check out my art of reaching course just check out my art of reaching course just click the link wherever you're watching click the link wherever you're watching click the link wherever you're watching or listening to this podcast and as I or listening to this podcast and as I or listening to this podcast and as I mentioned earlier we can all get better mentioned earlier we can all get better mentioned earlier we can all get better at sharing our faith I think we got a at sharing our faith I think we got a at sharing our faith I think we got a master class in apologetics and this is master class in apologetics and this is master class in apologetics and this is an opportunity to learn and to grow from an opportunity to learn and to grow from an opportunity to learn and to grow from it