10 Years Later: The Podcast That Started It All

so many of the leaders at my age I'm 59 so many of the leaders at my age I'm 59 who could have still been in the room who could have still been in the room who could have still been in the room smartest of a generation some of that smartest of a generation some of that smartest of a generation some of that like like honestly super intelligent like like honestly super intelligent like like honestly super intelligent knew their stuff in many cases knew knew their stuff in many cases knew knew their stuff in many cases knew their Bible inside out what was it it their Bible inside out what was it it their Bible inside out what was it it was character it was like they were was character it was like they were was character it was like they were jerks welcome to the car newoff jerks welcome to the car newoff jerks welcome to the car newoff leadership podcast on YouTube hey it's leadership podcast on YouTube hey it's leadership podcast on YouTube hey it's our 10th anniversary and we're our 10th anniversary and we're our 10th anniversary and we're celebrating today as my good friend Mark celebrating today as my good friend Mark celebrating today as my good friend Mark Clark joins us and we flip the mic we're Clark joins us and we flip the mic we're Clark joins us and we flip the mic we're going to talk about all things podcast going to talk about all things podcast going to talk about all things podcast how this started how it grew how we got how this started how it grew how we got how this started how it grew how we got to over 34 million downloads uh what to over 34 million downloads uh what to over 34 million downloads uh what happened in the background and a whole happened in the background and a whole happened in the background and a whole lot more I hope you enjoyed this really lot more I hope you enjoyed this really lot more I hope you enjoyed this really transparent conversation my good friend transparent conversation my good friend transparent conversation my good friend Mark Clark and because it's our 10th Mark Clark and because it's our 10th Mark Clark and because it's our 10th anniversary we want to give something to anniversary we want to give something to anniversary we want to give something to you today is the final day release day you today is the final day release day you today is the final day release day for this video is the final day where for this video is the final day where for this video is the final day where you can be one of the winners for our you can be one of the winners for our you can be one of the winners for our Big Green Egg giveaway so we got one Big Green Egg giveaway so we got one Big Green Egg giveaway so we got one grand prize winner who's going to get an grand prize winner who's going to get an grand prize winner who's going to get an extra large big green egg same griller extra large big green egg same griller extra large big green egg same griller smoker that I have accessories and smoker that I have accessories and smoker that I have accessories and special steak delivery two Runners up special steak delivery two Runners up special steak delivery two Runners up are going to get mini Maxes these are are going to get mini Maxes these are are going to get mini Maxes these are really cool smaller versions of the egg really cool smaller versions of the egg really cool smaller versions of the egg that you can take with you on the road that you can take with you on the road that you can take with you on the road or use them at your house it's open to or use them at your house it's open to or use them at your house it's open to Canadian and US residents and what you Canadian and US residents and what you Canadian and US residents and what you do drop a comment here on YouTube and do drop a comment here on YouTube and do drop a comment here on YouTube and then enter the draw at cnlp dolive then enter the draw at cnlp dolive then enter the draw at cnlp dolive today's episode is brought to you by my today's episode is brought to you by my today's episode is brought to you by my brand new course the art of navigating brand new course the art of navigating brand new course the art of navigating Church conflict you can reduce the Church conflict you can reduce the Church conflict you can reduce the conflict at your church and and unite conflict at your church and and unite conflict at your church and and unite people around a shared and growing people around a shared and growing people around a shared and growing mission in as little as 5 minutes a day

mission in as little as 5 minutes a day mission in as little as 5 minutes a day by using my brand new course the art of by using my brand new course the art of by using my brand new course the art of navigating Church conflict visit artof navigating Church conflict visit artof navigating Church conflict visit artof Church Church Church conflict. to learn more and today's conflict. to learn more and today's conflict. to learn more and today's episode is brought to you by Glue plus episode is brought to you by Glue plus episode is brought to you by Glue plus there are people moving into your city there are people moving into your city there are people moving into your city every day and the question is will you every day and the question is will you every day and the question is will you be there to welcome them with love with be there to welcome them with love with be there to welcome them with love with glute plus you can send 50 postcards glute plus you can send 50 postcards glute plus you can send 50 postcards every month to people who move into your every month to people who move into your every month to people who move into your area you can go to glue. us/ movers and area you can go to glue. us/ movers and area you can go to glue. us/ movers and use the code carry 20 you'll get 20% off use the code carry 20 you'll get 20% off use the code carry 20 you'll get 20% off your glue plus membership and now my your glue plus membership and now my your glue plus membership and now my flip the mic conversation with Mark flip the mic conversation with Mark flip the mic conversation with Mark Clark well very different kind of Clark well very different kind of Clark well very different kind of interview today I got my buddy Mark interview today I got my buddy Mark interview today I got my buddy Mark Clark love it hey guys how you doing Clark love it hey guys how you doing Clark love it hey guys how you doing what a what a joy and an honor to be what a what a joy and an honor to be what a what a joy and an honor to be doing this interview with I mean he's doing this interview with I mean he's doing this interview with I mean he's got look look at Carrie new Hoff's got got look look at Carrie new Hoff's got got look look at Carrie new Hoff's got the he's got the the microphone I got no the he's got the the microphone I got no the he's got the the microphone I got no no logoed microphone how did you figure no logoed microphone how did you figure no logoed microphone how did you figure this out well you know it's magnetic so this out well you know it's magnetic so this out well you know it's magnetic so okay so we can totally move it okay okay so we can totally move it okay okay so we can totally move it okay perect we'll get you another one next perect we'll get you another one next perect we'll get you another one next time you're town we'll get another one time you're town we'll get another one time you're town we'll get another one set up here what is it why why are we set up here what is it why why are we set up here what is it why why are we doing this Carrie what's happening right doing this Carrie what's happening right doing this Carrie what's happening right now 10 years of podcasting 10 years now 10 years of podcasting 10 years now 10 years of podcasting 10 years ladies and gentlemen with this man ladies and gentlemen with this man ladies and gentlemen with this man unbelievable 10 year anniversary 10 year unbelievable 10 year anniversary 10 year unbelievable 10 year anniversary 10 year anniversary congratulations congratul anniversary congratulations congratul anniversary congratulations congratul well thank you well you know we're well thank you well you know we're well thank you well you know we're working out of my basement yeah this is working out of my basement yeah this is working out of my basement yeah this is this is amazing this is what you've done this is amazing this is what you've done this is amazing this is what you've done it's incredible so you're bringing the it's incredible so you're bringing the it's incredible so you're bringing the questions yes yes I'm bringing the questions yes yes I'm bringing the questions yes yes I'm bringing the question so so I I mean 10 year question so so I I mean 10 year question so so I I mean 10 year anniversary K newoff podcast he's been anniversary K newoff podcast he's been anniversary K newoff podcast he's been just feeding the church us all of us for just feeding the church us all of us for just feeding the church us all of us for so many years um and here we are in the so many years um and here we are in the so many years um and here we are in the middle of your basement in in the middle

middle of your basement in in the middle middle of your basement in in the middle of Podunk I mean not to expose any well of Podunk I mean not to expose any well of Podunk I mean not to expose any well thank you Podunk nowhere in Ontario thank you Podunk nowhere in Ontario thank you Podunk nowhere in Ontario Canada okay where there's cows and Canada okay where there's cows and Canada okay where there's cows and horses running around everywhere and yet horses running around everywhere and yet horses running around everywhere and yet you have built uh just an incredible you have built uh just an incredible you have built uh just an incredible Ministry with literally millions of Ministry with literally millions of Ministry with literally millions of people uh in America Canada all over the people uh in America Canada all over the people uh in America Canada all over the world world world globally first question out of the gate globally first question out of the gate globally first question out of the gate 10year anniversary how how is that 10year anniversary how how is that 10year anniversary how how is that possible that you did this you took a possible that you did this you took a possible that you did this you took a podcast you took you were pastoring a podcast you took you were pastoring a podcast you took you were pastoring a church leading a church yeah take us church leading a church yeah take us church leading a church yeah take us back to the back to the back to the beginning what made you go this is what beginning what made you go this is what beginning what made you go this is what I want to do with my life because you're I want to do with my life because you're I want to do with my life because you're amazing at it we're celebrating you amazing at it we're celebrating you amazing at it we're celebrating you today and what you've done take us back today and what you've done take us back today and what you've done take us back to the beginning that shift between to the beginning that shift between to the beginning that shift between you're pastoring a church leading a you're pastoring a church leading a you're pastoring a church leading a church growing church it's a and you go church growing church it's a and you go church growing church it's a and you go this is maybe something I want to do I this is maybe something I want to do I this is maybe something I want to do I want to influence globally take us back want to influence globally take us back want to influence globally take us back to the well let me to the well let me to the well let me that I never thought about influencing that I never thought about influencing that I never thought about influencing globally I was just like an early globally I was just like an early globally I was just like an early adopter it was my wife Tony who told me adopter it was my wife Tony who told me adopter it was my wife Tony who told me about podcast I remember we were still about podcast I remember we were still about podcast I remember we were still living at our old house which you never living at our old house which you never living at our old house which you never saw no cuz we've been friends for 10 saw no cuz we've been friends for 10 saw no cuz we've been friends for 10 years or so almost around the time of years or so almost around the time of years or so almost around the time of the podcast I think we became friends the podcast I think we became friends the podcast I think we became friends and she just said have you started heard and she just said have you started heard and she just said have you started heard about podcast I'm like I don't know what about podcast I'm like I don't know what about podcast I'm like I don't know what that is and she goes oh lawyers are that is and she goes oh lawyers are that is and she goes oh lawyers are using it you know we have a law using it you know we have a law using it you know we have a law background and so I hadn't heard about background and so I hadn't heard about background and so I hadn't heard about it but give it a year or two and people it but give it a year or two and people it but give it a year or two and people podcasting went mainstream so I started podcasting went mainstream so I started podcasting went mainstream so I started listening to podcast and I thought oh listening to podcast and I thought oh listening to podcast and I thought oh this is a really cool format and there this is a really cool format and there this is a really cool format and there wasn't a lot in the church space there

wasn't a lot in the church space there wasn't a lot in the church space there was the Catalyst podcast that was about was the Catalyst podcast that was about was the Catalyst podcast that was about it was that like a Brad lomnick was it was that like a Brad lomnick was it was that like a Brad lomnick was doing it or somebody else LOM L lomic doing it or somebody else LOM L lomic doing it or somebody else LOM L lomic did everything right you know so Brad did everything right you know so Brad did everything right you know so Brad was doing it and there were other people was doing it and there were other people was doing it and there were other people doing it too I think Ken Coleman was on doing it too I think Ken Coleman was on doing it too I think Ken Coleman was on that in the early days and but the that in the early days and but the that in the early days and but the interview format got really big in the interview format got really big in the interview format got really big in the business world and I was listening to business world and I was listening to business world and I was listening to that in the leadership world and I that in the leadership world and I that in the leadership world and I thought nobody's doing this other than thought nobody's doing this other than thought nobody's doing this other than catalyst in the church space and at the catalyst in the church space and at the catalyst in the church space and at the same time I'd started to do a lot of same time I'd started to do a lot of same time I'd started to do a lot of speaking at conferences so I would get speaking at conferences so I would get speaking at conferences so I would get into green rooms and I would listen I into green rooms and I would listen I into green rooms and I would listen I would have great conversations like you would have great conversations like you would have great conversations like you and I would have great conversations and and I would have great conversations and and I would have great conversations and I'd always leave going I wish everybody I'd always leave going I wish everybody I'd always leave going I wish everybody could have heard that so I thought maybe could have heard that so I thought maybe could have heard that so I thought maybe I could do a podcast thought about it I could do a podcast thought about it I could do a podcast thought about it for a couple years and then I was still for a couple years and then I was still for a couple years and then I was still working full-time at Conexus as a lead working full-time at Conexus as a lead working full-time at Conexus as a lead pastor and so I thought how do we do pastor and so I thought how do we do pastor and so I thought how do we do this in a really scalable way so as as this in a really scalable way so as as this in a really scalable way so as as an experiment in September of 2014 I an experiment in September of 2014 I an experiment in September of 2014 I started a bi-weekly leadership podcast started a bi-weekly leadership podcast started a bi-weekly leadership podcast you know this was only every other week you know this was only every other week you know this was only every other week for the first few months yeah yeah for the first few months yeah yeah for the first few months yeah yeah interesting spent the summer banking so interesting spent the summer banking so interesting spent the summer banking so what did you what did you leadership Pro what did you what did you leadership Pro what did you what did you leadership Pro so what did you draw from just your own so what did you draw from just your own so what did you draw from just your own leadership principles and then you just leadership principles and then you just leadership principles and then you just talk to people or did you interview like talk to people or did you interview like talk to people or did you interview like what was your first episode well first what was your first episode well first what was your first episode well first episode should probably researched this episode should probably researched this episode should probably researched this yeah yeah you should you're the yeah yeah you should you're the yeah yeah you should you're the interviewer you're great at this thank interviewer you're great at this thank interviewer you're great at this thank you for doing all the show prep Mark I you for doing all the show prep Mark I you for doing all the show prep Mark I really appreciate so I I memorized your really appreciate so I I memorized your really appreciate so I I memorized your first 20 episodes what was your first first 20 episodes what was your first first 20 episodes what was your first episode of this show well I did a episode of this show well I did a episode of this show well I did a preview and it was Andy Stanley it was

preview and it was Andy Stanley it was preview and it was Andy Stanley it was episode one awesome cuz I wanted to do episode one awesome cuz I wanted to do episode one awesome cuz I wanted to do the interview thing because the the interview thing because the the interview thing because the interview thing was repeatable for me interview thing was repeatable for me interview thing was repeatable for me course it was like otherwise I'd have to course it was like otherwise I'd have to course it was like otherwise I'd have to prep another hourlong talk etc etc so I prep another hourlong talk etc etc so I prep another hourlong talk etc etc so I wanted to do that and I had known Andy wanted to do that and I had known Andy wanted to do that and I had known Andy for a number of years it was a big ask for a number of years it was a big ask for a number of years it was a big ask and he was kind enough to say yes so we and he was kind enough to say yes so we and he was kind enough to say yes so we did like and then oh yeah I got like did like and then oh yeah I got like did like and then oh yeah I got like feedback cuz I was looking at the format feedback cuz I was looking at the format feedback cuz I was looking at the format so the church leaders who were doing so the church leaders who were doing so the church leaders who were doing podcasts back in the day were often not podcasts back in the day were often not podcasts back in the day were often not doing interview stuff they were doing doing interview stuff they were doing doing interview stuff they were doing solo podcast you write a blog post it's solo podcast you write a blog post it's solo podcast you write a blog post it's like here are the five things about le like here are the five things about le like here are the five things about le blah blah blah so you do that and I'm blah blah blah so you do that and I'm blah blah blah so you do that and I'm like well then I have to write new like well then I have to write new like well then I have to write new content don't want to do that and content don't want to do that and content don't want to do that and everybody who I talked to said go short everybody who I talked to said go short everybody who I talked to said go short go short go short people have the go short go short people have the go short go short people have the attention span of a goldfish that was attention span of a goldfish that was attention span of a goldfish that was new information you know you want eight new information you know you want eight new information you know you want eight minutes 10 minutes a super easy commute minutes 10 minutes a super easy commute minutes 10 minutes a super easy commute 30 minutes I'm like no good conversation 30 minutes I'm like no good conversation 30 minutes I'm like no good conversation I've had has ever been 20 minutes yeah I've had has ever been 20 minutes yeah I've had has ever been 20 minutes yeah it's always longer and they leave you it's always longer and they leave you it's always longer and they leave you wanting more so I was I think the first wanting more so I was I think the first wanting more so I was I think the first episode was like 38 minutes and I did 38 episode was like 38 minutes and I did 38 episode was like 38 minutes and I did 38 minutes and that seemed really long but minutes and that seemed really long but minutes and that seemed really long but it went really well and now they're on it went really well and now they're on it went really well and now they're on average an hour hour and a quarter hour average an hour hour and a quarter hour average an hour hour and a quarter hour and a half very long form format long and a half very long form format long and a half very long form format long form but again you know you got to kind form but again you know you got to kind form but again you know you got to kind of commit to a format and it was audio of commit to a format and it was audio of commit to a format and it was audio only at the beginning sure and then I only at the beginning sure and then I only at the beginning sure and then I had worked so far ahead in the summer of had worked so far ahead in the summer of had worked so far ahead in the summer of 2014 taing all of my friends like hey 2014 taing all of my friends like hey 2014 taing all of my friends like hey can we do one like Frank beer was one of can we do one like Frank beer was one of can we do one like Frank beer was one of the early episodes he was at elevation the early episodes he was at elevation the early episodes he was at elevation at the time elevation and like I think I

at the time elevation and like I think I at the time elevation and like I think I had to re-record that one and had to re-record that one and had to re-record that one and interestingly enough you know I hadn't interestingly enough you know I hadn't interestingly enough you know I hadn't thought about this in a long time this thought about this in a long time this thought about this in a long time this may now be off the internet but I tried may now be off the internet but I tried may now be off the internet but I tried an earlier let's hope so let's hope so an earlier let's hope so let's hope so an earlier let's hope so let's hope so the story that's right so the first time the story that's right so the first time the story that's right so the first time I got cancelled no it was it was it was I got cancelled no it was it was it was I got cancelled no it was it was it was like I did I called it Leadership like I did I called it Leadership like I did I called it Leadership Lessons with it was 2013 Lessons with it was 2013 Lessons with it was 2013 and I would post videos on my blog cuz I and I would post videos on my blog cuz I and I would post videos on my blog cuz I had been blogging I was posting videos had been blogging I was posting videos had been blogging I was posting videos on my blog in 2013 on a Friday okay and on my blog in 2013 on a Friday okay and on my blog in 2013 on a Friday okay and nobody watched them like nobody I would nobody watched them like nobody I would nobody watched them like nobody I would YouTube them and nobody was watching so YouTube them and nobody was watching so YouTube them and nobody was watching so I tried five of them and I'm like this I tried five of them and I'm like this I tried five of them and I'm like this is a failure because everyone said the is a failure because everyone said the is a failure because everyone said the future is video the future is video this future is video the future is video this future is video the future is video this is even is even is even 2013 and I was in the spare bedroom 2013 and I was in the spare bedroom 2013 and I was in the spare bedroom upstairs on the top floor where Tony's upstairs on the top floor where Tony's upstairs on the top floor where Tony's office is now he builds an Empire from office is now he builds an Empire from office is now he builds an Empire from the bedroom Oro mediate or whatever town the bedroom Oro mediate or whatever town the bedroom Oro mediate or whatever town this is Oro mediate yes you been enough this is Oro mediate yes you been enough this is Oro mediate yes you been enough you can't just there was a lady churning you can't just there was a lady churning you can't just there was a lady churning butter outside your window 10 minutes butter outside your window 10 minutes butter outside your window 10 minutes ago what look at it's incredible Fe I do ago what look at it's incredible Fe I do ago what look at it's incredible Fe I do live in the country with Incredible live in the country with Incredible live in the country with Incredible internet but it's right by L okay sorry internet but it's right by L okay sorry internet but it's right by L okay sorry yes no switch bedroom so it was up there yes no switch bedroom so it was up there yes no switch bedroom so it was up there and then I I I put that on Ice cuz I'm and then I I I put that on Ice cuz I'm and then I I I put that on Ice cuz I'm like okay nobody's like okay nobody's like okay nobody's listening and then I reimagine that the listening and then I reimagine that the listening and then I reimagine that the next year will maybe just audio format next year will maybe just audio format next year will maybe just audio format and so when I launched it as audio I got and so when I launched it as audio I got and so when I launched it as audio I got all five of those guests for my failed all five of those guests for my failed all five of those guests for my failed video podcast in video podcast in video podcast in 2013 uh and I didn't have an audio

2013 uh and I didn't have an audio 2013 uh and I didn't have an audio version of it okay back to do the audio version of it okay back to do the audio version of it okay back to do the audio cast interes and then I had so many cast interes and then I had so many cast interes and then I had so many episodes in the bank by I think month episodes in the bank by I think month episodes in the bank by I think month two or two or two or three I was like okay we could do this three I was like okay we could do this three I was like okay we could do this every week right so that's when it every week right so that's when it every week right so that's when it became a weekly podcast and and it became a weekly podcast and and it became a weekly podcast and and it became your passion to do it because I became your passion to do it because I became your passion to do it because I mean how did you get like the D what was mean how did you get like the D what was mean how did you get like the D what was the data on that first episode was like the data on that first episode was like the data on that first episode was like 500 viewers was it a 200 th like what 500 viewers was it a 200 th like what 500 viewers was it a 200 th like what was it that you went oh this is fun out was it that you went oh this is fun out was it that you went oh this is fun out of the gate do you remember I've got the of the gate do you remember I've got the of the gate do you remember I've got the stats I'm going to say we're at like 34 stats I'm going to say we're at like 34 stats I'm going to say we're at like 34 35 million downloads now wow but I think 35 million downloads now wow but I think 35 million downloads now wow but I think that first year was 500,000 wow like it that first year was 500,000 wow like it that first year was 500,000 wow like it was out of the gate it was strong wow so was out of the gate it was strong wow so was out of the gate it was strong wow so how many episodes would you have had how many episodes would you have had how many episodes would you have had that first year oh 50ish okay so you that first year oh 50ish okay so you that first year oh 50ish okay so you were dropping one every week maybe a were dropping one every week maybe a were dropping one every week maybe a little less yeah okay yeah so 34 million little less yeah okay yeah so 34 million little less yeah okay yeah so 34 million down I mean did you did you ever expect down I mean did you did you ever expect down I mean did you did you ever expect that this podcast would be this big no that this podcast would be this big no that this podcast would be this big no anybody who tells you I mean I've talked anybody who tells you I mean I've talked anybody who tells you I mean I've talked to a lot of people with large churches to a lot of people with large churches to a lot of people with large churches large companies I mean I've interviewed large companies I mean I've interviewed large companies I mean I've interviewed some of the best leaders in the some of the best leaders in the some of the best leaders in the world if you get the healthy ones yeah world if you get the healthy ones yeah world if you get the healthy ones yeah they will always tell you I had no idea they will always tell you I had no idea they will always tell you I had no idea I had no idea I mean we were just I was I had no idea I mean we were just I was I had no idea I mean we were just I was hoping somebody would listen right Chris hoping somebody would listen right Chris hoping somebody would listen right Chris vashe do you know Chris Yeah Yeah Chris vashe do you know Chris Yeah Yeah Chris vashe do you know Chris Yeah Yeah Chris Chris Chris and I went to the Blue Jays Chris Chris and I went to the Blue Jays Chris Chris and I went to the Blue Jays game I think the day before a Canadian game I think the day before a Canadian game I think the day before a Canadian baseball Canadian baseball baseball Canadian baseball baseball Canadian baseball pm and uh so we're sitting there and I

pm and uh so we're sitting there and I pm and uh so we're sitting there and I don't remember I remember going to the don't remember I remember going to the don't remember I remember going to the game with him I don't remember this and game with him I don't remember this and game with him I don't remember this and it was like Hey Chris tomorrow the it was like Hey Chris tomorrow the it was like Hey Chris tomorrow the podcast launches oh he goes first one podcast launches oh he goes first one podcast launches oh he goes first one what are you hoping I said I hope what are you hoping I said I hope what are you hoping I said I hope somebody listens I'm not sure anybody is somebody listens I'm not sure anybody is somebody listens I'm not sure anybody is going to listen to the show so that was going to listen to the show so that was going to listen to the show so that was exactly because I had tried it on video exactly because I had tried it on video exactly because I had tried it on video and it had flopped like I don't think my and it had flopped like I don't think my and it had flopped like I don't think my mom even watched right so I thought like mom even watched right so I thought like mom even watched right so I thought like what I I don't know where anybody's what I I don't know where anybody's what I I don't know where anybody's going to listen and then it started to going to listen and then it started to going to listen and then it started to get momentum and you know but did I get momentum and you know but did I get momentum and you know but did I think we'd have I mean in my wildest think we'd have I mean in my wildest think we'd have I mean in my wildest dreams I thought maybe if I do this for dreams I thought maybe if I do this for dreams I thought maybe if I do this for a number of years we get a million a number of years we get a million a number of years we get a million downloads like but a million it's like downloads like but a million it's like downloads like but a million it's like when you have a dollar in your bank when you have a dollar in your bank when you have a dollar in your bank account as a kid yeah you think you know account as a kid yeah you think you know account as a kid yeah you think you know wouldn't it be nice to have a million wouldn't it be nice to have a million wouldn't it be nice to have a million dollars you might as well say a zillion dollars you might as well say a zillion dollars you might as well say a zillion or a trillion like it's so unreachable or a trillion like it's so unreachable or a trillion like it's so unreachable and then to reach within a few years was and then to reach within a few years was and then to reach within a few years was or two years or whatever it was or two years or whatever it was or two years or whatever it was incredible so when you saw those first incredible so when you saw those first incredible so when you saw those first numbers and you started doing those numbers and you started doing those numbers and you started doing those First episodes what was what was like First episodes what was what was like First episodes what was what was like the the the jolt or the feeling of the the the jolt or the feeling of the the the jolt or the feeling of pleasure and satisfaction that it gave pleasure and satisfaction that it gave pleasure and satisfaction that it gave you like what was the thing behind the you like what was the thing behind the you like what was the thing behind the thing definitely dopamine hits but uh thing definitely dopamine hits but uh thing definitely dopamine hits but uh like you know I'm a numbers guy I I you like you know I'm a numbers guy I I you like you know I'm a numbers guy I I you do like you rather you have like do like you rather you have like do like you rather you have like traction back here traction back here traction back here back I got another Instagram Instagram back I got another Instagram Instagram back I got another Instagram Instagram followers I'm like all right there's followers I'm like all right there's followers I'm like all right there's either a ghost in here or someone else either a ghost in here or someone else either a ghost in here or someone else started to follow Carrie new off on started to follow Carrie new off on started to follow Carrie new off on Instagram because freaking me out those Instagram because freaking me out those Instagram because freaking me out those are gifts from Rich the middle of the are gifts from Rich the middle of the are gifts from Rich the middle of the night I'm like he's so kind anyway but

night I'm like he's so kind anyway but night I'm like he's so kind anyway but yeah there's there's that which is like yeah there's there's that which is like yeah there's there's that which is like good incentive it was like validation good incentive it was like validation good incentive it was like validation but I think the happiest thing was uh I but I think the happiest thing was uh I but I think the happiest thing was uh I got to bring my audience the the got to bring my audience the the got to bring my audience the the conversations I imagined I could bring conversations I imagined I could bring conversations I imagined I could bring them and I was starting early on to get them and I was starting early on to get them and I was starting early on to get insights out of leaders that a I didn't insights out of leaders that a I didn't insights out of leaders that a I didn't know they maybe never said and I wasn't know they maybe never said and I wasn't know they maybe never said and I wasn't trying to trick them you know sure we'll trying to trick them you know sure we'll trying to trick them you know sure we'll talk about that but uh it was it was talk about that but uh it was it was talk about that but uh it was it was that Joy of like bringing and that that Joy of like bringing and that that Joy of like bringing and that became addictive and so but to think became addictive and so but to think became addictive and so but to think that I'd be doing this a decade from now that I'd be doing this a decade from now that I'd be doing this a decade from now I'm not very good at thinking about the I'm not very good at thinking about the I'm not very good at thinking about the future like will I be doing this 10 future like will I be doing this 10 future like will I be doing this 10 years from now and the answer is I don't years from now and the answer is I don't years from now and the answer is I don't know man because I don't know what going know man because I don't know what going know man because I don't know what going to happen your 10-e plan do you have one to happen your 10-e plan do you have one to happen your 10-e plan do you have one yeah I would say right now my 10year yeah I would say right now my 10year yeah I would say right now my 10year plan is is I want to bring quality plan is is I want to bring quality plan is is I want to bring quality conversations to leaders particularly conversations to leaders particularly conversations to leaders particularly NextGen leaders church leaders yeah and NextGen leaders church leaders yeah and NextGen leaders church leaders yeah and people who are invested in the church I people who are invested in the church I people who are invested in the church I want to bring quality conversations to want to bring quality conversations to want to bring quality conversations to them in whatever form the future will them in whatever form the future will them in whatever form the future will bring so like if you think about 20 bring so like if you think about 20 bring so like if you think about 20 years ago there was no podcasting right years ago there was no podcasting right years ago there was no podcasting right 2004 it didn't exist in 2004 it didn't exist in 2004 it didn't exist in 2034 is it going to exist I don't know 2034 is it going to exist I don't know 2034 is it going to exist I don't know will it be will it be like will you be will it be will it be like will you be will it be will it be like will you be doing broadcast TV in an era of like doing broadcast TV in an era of like doing broadcast TV in an era of like streaming right well if if if the medium streaming right well if if if the medium streaming right well if if if the medium shifts I'll shift with the medium so we shifts I'll shift with the medium so we shifts I'll shift with the medium so we added video you know we've done added video you know we've done added video you know we've done different things but like I'll have to

different things but like I'll have to different things but like I'll have to see how to deliver that but I don't see how to deliver that but I don't see how to deliver that but I don't think long form is going away yeah and I think long form is going away yeah and I think long form is going away yeah and I I think actually it's going to become I think actually it's going to become I think actually it's going to become you know near Al who was a guest on the you know near Al who was a guest on the you know near Al who was a guest on the podcast talks about the attention podcast talks about the attention podcast talks about the attention economy and so everybody's being so economy and so everybody's being so economy and so everybody's being so distracted attention of a goldfish all distracted attention of a goldfish all distracted attention of a goldfish all this stuff I think if you go long you go this stuff I think if you go long you go this stuff I think if you go long you go deep there is a hunger for that like you deep there is a hunger for that like you deep there is a hunger for that like you think about your preaching yeah of think about your preaching yeah of think about your preaching yeah of course you know you're not going shallow course you know you're not going shallow course you know you're not going shallow Oh yeah you're preaching it's way too Oh yeah you're preaching it's way too Oh yeah you're preaching it's way too long it's way too long think about your long it's way too long think about your long it's way too long think about your preaching it's way too long no no no but preaching it's way too long no no no but preaching it's way too long no no no but like you can you can hold Court you can like you can you can hold Court you can like you can you can hold Court you can hold court for 40 minutes because you're hold court for 40 minutes because you're hold court for 40 minutes because you're giving people something that's deep but giving people something that's deep but giving people something that's deep but it's something for their life and that's it's something for their life and that's it's something for their life and that's wonderful uh so a friend just texted me wonderful uh so a friend just texted me wonderful uh so a friend just texted me and I said hey I'm doing the 10year and I said hey I'm doing the 10year and I said hey I'm doing the 10year anniversary so it's cool to like do the anniversary so it's cool to like do the anniversary so it's cool to like do the tenure and then think 10 years down the tenure and then think 10 years down the tenure and then think 10 years down the road and he said uh thank Carrie for road and he said uh thank Carrie for road and he said uh thank Carrie for these 10 years because I literally these 10 years because I literally these 10 years because I literally remember the first episode and it's remember the first episode and it's remember the first episode and it's informed and changed my life as a leader informed and changed my life as a leader informed and changed my life as a leader and he's one of our best leaders at our and he's one of our best leaders at our and he's one of our best leaders at our church he's leading a church of 2500 on church he's leading a church of 2500 on church he's leading a church of 2500 on a weekend killing it one of the great a weekend killing it one of the great a weekend killing it one of the great preachers of America he'll be amazing preachers of America he'll be amazing preachers of America he'll be amazing leader for the next 30 40 years and he's leader for the next 30 40 years and he's leader for the next 30 40 years and he's going I remember your first episode and going I remember your first episode and going I remember your first episode and I've been with you ever since so thank I've been with you ever since so thank I've been with you ever since so thank you Carrie you're you're killing it man you Carrie you're you're killing it man you Carrie you're you're killing it man thank you that is so humbling do you thank you that is so humbling do you thank you that is so humbling do you know how many people I don't know it's know how many people I don't know it's know how many people I don't know it's like remember well again Nixon Kennedy like remember well again Nixon Kennedy like remember well again Nixon Kennedy that election in 1960 yeah it was like that election in 1960 yeah it was like that election in 1960 yeah it was like closest election you were there yeah I closest election you were there yeah I closest election you were there yeah I was there right on reporting live from was there right on reporting live from was there right on reporting live from the Nixon Kennedy debate yes sorry go

the Nixon Kennedy debate yes sorry go the Nixon Kennedy debate yes sorry go ahead make your point this is why you're ahead make your point this is why you're ahead make your point this is why you're a much better interviewer than a much better interviewer than a much better interviewer than me Mark's already on to another subject me Mark's already on to another subject me Mark's already on to another subject so anyway here's the fourth point I want so anyway here's the fourth point I want so anyway here's the fourth point I want to answer my own question to answer my own question to answer my own question car no but it was like one the closest car no but it was like one the closest car no but it was like one the closest election to that point in US history but election to that point in US history but election to that point in US history but when they pulled everybody after when they pulled everybody after when they pulled everybody after Kennedy's assassination who do you vote Kennedy's assassination who do you vote Kennedy's assassination who do you vote for 70% said Kennedy so I feel like I'm for 70% said Kennedy so I feel like I'm for 70% said Kennedy so I feel like I'm sure your friend was there for episode sure your friend was there for episode sure your friend was there for episode one I hear that so often and people talk one I hear that so often and people talk one I hear that so often and people talk about really meaningful episodes so I'm about really meaningful episodes so I'm about really meaningful episodes so I'm really grateful did I think that this really grateful did I think that this really grateful did I think that this was going to go where it went not in a was going to go where it went not in a was going to go where it went not in a million years not in a million years and million years not in a million years and million years not in a million years and I'm really grateful for my team really I'm really grateful for my team really I'm really grateful for my team really grateful we've always had help on this grateful we've always had help on this grateful we've always had help on this podcast you know Holly Beth helped on podcast you know Holly Beth helped on podcast you know Holly Beth helped on the podcast for a long time Toby has the podcast for a long time Toby has the podcast for a long time Toby has produced every single episode Toby ly produced every single episode Toby ly produced every single episode Toby ly huge shout out # Give It Up to to when I huge shout out # Give It Up to to when I huge shout out # Give It Up to to when I he Toby I just think the he Toby I just think the he Toby I just think the office is his personality anything like office is his personality anything like office is his personality anything like that Toby I know people actually like that Toby I know people actually like that Toby I know people actually like Toby so that's good I love it good job Toby so that's good I love it good job Toby so that's good I love it good job Toby to's amazing and then Aaron Ward Toby to's amazing and then Aaron Ward Toby to's amazing and then Aaron Ward led the podcast for a number of years led the podcast for a number of years led the podcast for a number of years Carly vinsky for the last two years and Carly vinsky for the last two years and Carly vinsky for the last two years and then I've got my whole team over the then I've got my whole team over the then I've got my whole team over the years that has see this is so Carrie years that has see this is so Carrie years that has see this is so Carrie newoff you're you're thanking a bunch of newoff you're you're thanking a bunch of newoff you're you're thanking a bunch of people behind the scenes that nobody people behind the scenes that nobody people behind the scenes that nobody knows or not a lot of people know who knows or not a lot of people know who knows or not a lot of people know who listen that's what makes you you it's listen that's what makes you you it's listen that's what makes you you it's genius I love it I look forward to the genius I love it I look forward to the genius I love it I look forward to the next 10 years this is going to be next 10 years this is going to be next 10 years this is going to be awesome okay let's get into some awesome okay let's get into some awesome okay let's get into some questions about your leadership the Pod questions about your leadership the Pod questions about your leadership the Pod the stuff you want to share for us let's

the stuff you want to share for us let's the stuff you want to share for us let's get going I got some I got some good get going I got some I got some good get going I got some I got some good questions okay some some some some ice questions okay some some some some ice questions okay some some some some ice breakers because you know you you you breakers because you know you you you breakers because you know you you you carry yourself very professionally carry yourself very professionally carry yourself very professionally you're always interviewing all these big you're always interviewing all these big you're always interviewing all these big wigs who want to you know be on there wigs who want to you know be on there wigs who want to you know be on there and you're you're focused on them but we and you're you're focused on them but we and you're you're focused on them but we want to little bit we want you to want to little bit we want you to want to little bit we want you to suspend humil a little bit and make suspend humil a little bit and make suspend humil a little bit and make Carrie the hero of this pod so uh first Carrie the hero of this pod so uh first Carrie the hero of this pod so uh first off what is one fact that no one knows off what is one fact that no one knows off what is one fact that no one knows about Carrie newoff one fact one fun about Carrie newoff one fact one fun about Carrie newoff one fact one fun little fact that no one knows I know you little fact that no one knows I know you little fact that no one knows I know you gave me these questions ahead of time gave me these questions ahead of time gave me these questions ahead of time and and and terrible not you I don't think on my terrible not you I don't think on my terrible not you I don't think on my feet one fact that nobody knows nobody feet one fact that nobody knows nobody feet one fact that nobody knows nobody knows nothing you like uh I would knows nothing you like uh I would knows nothing you like uh I would say all right here's here's something I say all right here's here's something I say all right here's here's something I don't talk about okay A Lot H us I think don't talk about okay A Lot H us I think don't talk about okay A Lot H us I think my trust issues as a leader go back to my trust issues as a leader go back to my trust issues as a leader go back to when I was 12 years old we were jumping when I was 12 years old we were jumping when I was 12 years old we were jumping bikes do you remember ramps like bikes do you remember ramps like bikes do you remember ramps like building a ramp for your bike of course building a ramp for your bike of course building a ramp for your bike of course I had this beautiful three-speed I had this beautiful three-speed I had this beautiful three-speed Stingray it was called a stingray okay Stingray it was called a stingray okay Stingray it was called a stingray okay and I'm going like as fast as you and I'm going like as fast as you and I'm going like as fast as you possibly can at 12 years old yeah to possibly can at 12 years old yeah to possibly can at 12 years old yeah to clear this ramp and my neighbor across clear this ramp and my neighbor across clear this ramp and my neighbor across the street sticks a uh a stick in my the street sticks a uh a stick in my the street sticks a uh a stick in my Spokes and I go fly what a little I Spokes and I go fly what a little I Spokes and I go fly what a little I haven't trusted anybody since what was haven't trusted anybody since what was haven't trusted anybody since what was his name not a person I can't say what his name not a person I can't say what his name not a person I can't say what if he listens to this pod shout out what if he listens to this pod shout out what if he listens to this pod shout out what if he listens to this podc he is not if he listens to this podc he is not if he listens to this podc he is not listening to my podcast anyway he was on listening to my podcast anyway he was on listening to my podcast anyway he was on episode 392 of my show no I'm kidding episode 392 of my show no I'm kidding episode 392 of my show no I'm kidding I'm kidding and his was crank I'm kidding and his was crank I'm kidding and his was crank Grell would not have done that K Grell would not have done that K Grell would not have done that K actually he had a brother named crank

actually he had a brother named crank actually he had a brother named crank I'll give you that much so he put a I'll give you that much so he put a I'll give you that much so he put a stick in he put a stick in your spokes stick in he put a stick in your spokes stick in he put a stick in your spokes and you went over I went flying and uh and you went over I went flying and uh and you went over I went flying and uh and yeah so I don't know why that came and yeah so I don't know why that came and yeah so I don't know why that came to mind just all right so that's why you to mind just all right so that's why you to mind just all right so that's why you kind shattered my faith in humanity okay kind shattered my faith in humanity okay kind shattered my faith in humanity okay so you don't trust people but you didn't so you don't trust people but you didn't so you don't trust people but you didn't have to get any reconstructive teeth have to get any reconstructive teeth have to get any reconstructive teeth surgery not even a St okay well so but surgery not even a St okay well so but surgery not even a St okay well so but but that that's a that's something but that that's a that's something but that that's a that's something nobody does knows about no knows about nobody does knows about no knows about nobody does knows about no knows about CU I've never talked about that publicly CU I've never talked about that publicly CU I've never talked about that publicly every other aspect of my life has been every other aspect of my life has been every other aspect of my life has been chronicled publicly because I've written chronicled publicly because I've written chronicled publicly because I've written too many blog posts and done too many too many blog posts and done too many too many blog posts and done too many episodes you there's almost no material episodes you there's almost no material episodes you there's almost no material how much content you put out okay five how much content you put out okay five how much content you put out okay five books thousands of blog posts 600 books thousands of blog posts 600 books thousands of blog posts 600 episodes are you kidding unbelievable episodes are you kidding unbelievable episodes are you kidding unbelievable unbelievable nothing left uh okay next unbelievable nothing left uh okay next unbelievable nothing left uh okay next up what is fun for krie newoff out on up what is fun for krie newoff out on up what is fun for krie newoff out on the water dude we were trying to get out the water dude we were trying to get out the water dude we were trying to get out on the boat but it didn't work out with on the boat but it didn't work out with on the boat but it didn't work out with the schedule no but I love being on the schedule no but I love being on the schedule no but I love being on that's your happy place even on my boat that's your happy place even on my boat that's your happy place even on my boat haven't you yeah yeah that's your happy haven't you yeah yeah that's your happy haven't you yeah yeah that's your happy place being on the W it is my happy place being on the W it is my happy place being on the W it is my happy place man I went before you got here place man I went before you got here place man I went before you got here before you got into town I went to the before you got into town I went to the before you got into town I went to the marina and I like I think I thought I marina and I like I think I thought I marina and I like I think I thought I paid somebody to detail my boat it paid somebody to detail my boat it paid somebody to detail my boat it appears they either did a terrible job appears they either did a terrible job appears they either did a terrible job or it did not happen cuz I don't think I or it did not happen cuz I don't think I or it did not happen cuz I don't think I was build for it but um I just detailed was build for it but um I just detailed was build for it but um I just detailed my boat for 2 hours and I was so happy my boat for 2 hours and I was so happy my boat for 2 hours and I was so happy that is your Happ makes me so happy in that is your Happ makes me so happy in that is your Happ makes me so happy in the detail which comes to one of my next the detail which comes to one of my next the detail which comes to one of my next questions in a second about your questions in a second about your questions in a second about your personality but uh okay so being out in personality but uh okay so being out in personality but uh okay so being out in the boat and what is it about what is it the boat and what is it about what is it the boat and what is it about what is it about being out in the boat that's like about being out in the boat that's like about being out in the boat that's like okay this is this is where it's at okay this is this is where it's at okay this is this is where it's at there's something about the water there's something about the water there's something about the water there's something about like it's a it's

there's something about like it's a it's there's something about like it's a it's a nice 21 foot inboard outboard yeah and a nice 21 foot inboard outboard yeah and a nice 21 foot inboard outboard yeah and it just I don't know cutting the water it just I don't know cutting the water it just I don't know cutting the water on a quiet day with very little wind on a quiet day with very little wind on a quiet day with very little wind taking friends out floating around you taking friends out floating around you taking friends out floating around you know uh taking people water skiing and know uh taking people water skiing and know uh taking people water skiing and then just watching the sunset what is it then just watching the sunset what is it then just watching the sunset what is it about the water soal so I call it the about the water soal so I call it the about the water soal so I call it the 2hour vacation because we can be out for 2hour vacation because we can be out for 2hour vacation because we can be out for 2 hours and I can be so relaxed love 2 hours and I can be so relaxed love 2 hours and I can be so relaxed love that just like the rest of the world that just like the rest of the world that just like the rest of the world doesn't exist I could have been having a doesn't exist I could have been having a doesn't exist I could have been having a crappy day I'm out on the lake it's like crappy day I'm out on the lake it's like crappy day I'm out on the lake it's like no one can reach me here what do I care no one can reach me here what do I care no one can reach me here what do I care about this that's beautiful um okay so about this that's beautiful um okay so about this that's beautiful um okay so talk about favorite maybe K newoff talk about favorite maybe K newoff talk about favorite maybe K newoff movies I I don't think you talk about movies I I don't think you talk about movies I I don't think you talk about films and movies very often it's not films and movies very often it's not films and movies very often it's not that kind of like I'm no no but you like that kind of like I'm no no but you like that kind of like I'm no no but you like movies though I like movies I was movies though I like movies I was movies though I like movies I was thinking about this again like a couple thinking about this again like a couple thinking about this again like a couple I'm blanking yeah uh cuz I haven't seen I'm blanking yeah uh cuz I haven't seen I'm blanking yeah uh cuz I haven't seen we could talk about movies I haven't we could talk about movies I haven't we could talk about movies I haven't seen do you know I haven't seen the Star seen do you know I haven't seen the Star seen do you know I haven't seen the Star Wars Trilogy do you know the Wars Trilogy do you know the Wars Trilogy do you know the original7 saw in 77 fell asleep halfway original7 saw in 77 fell asleep halfway original7 saw in 77 fell asleep halfway through so I don't know whether that through so I don't know whether that through so I don't know whether that counts I was like 12 I saw I did I saw counts I was like 12 I saw I did I saw counts I was like 12 I saw I did I saw it in 77 man that's funny I got a couple it in 77 man that's funny I got a couple it in 77 man that's funny I got a couple years on you all right but I I saw it I years on you all right but I I saw it I years on you all right but I I saw it I think I fell asleep halfway through okay think I fell asleep halfway through okay think I fell asleep halfway through okay uh I've never seen Lord of the Rings oh uh I've never seen Lord of the Rings oh uh I've never seen Lord of the Rings oh my God yeah okay and ladies and my God yeah okay and ladies and my God yeah okay and ladies and gentlemen it was a great podcast thanks gentlemen it was a great podcast thanks gentlemen it was a great podcast thanks for coming Carrie you're welcome you're for coming Carrie you're welcome you're for coming Carrie you're welcome you're welcome you know I love comedies I mean Zoolander yeah all that comedies I mean Zoolander yeah all that nonsense stuff in the late 90s early nonsense stuff in the late 90s early nonsense stuff in the late 90s early 2000s totally into that that's cool okay

2000s totally into that that's cool okay 2000s totally into that that's cool okay uh give us your evaluation of the uh the uh give us your evaluation of the uh the uh give us your evaluation of the uh the Taylor Swift oh the you're a fan yeah Taylor Swift oh the you're a fan yeah Taylor Swift oh the you're a fan yeah big fan new album pretty sweet I think big fan new album pretty sweet I think big fan new album pretty sweet I think I'm a fan cuz I like her music not a to I'm a fan cuz I like her music not a to I'm a fan cuz I like her music not a to say that but I also think she's an say that but I also think she's an say that but I also think she's an absolute fascinating study about this absolute fascinating study about this absolute fascinating study about this cultural moment and you said something cultural moment and you said something cultural moment and you said something yeah you said something the other day yeah you said something the other day yeah you said something the other day you said something today to me that was you said something today to me that was you said something today to me that was really a great kind of EX aesus of the really a great kind of EX aesus of the really a great kind of EX aesus of the tswift approach to marketing and to talk tswift approach to marketing and to talk tswift approach to marketing and to talk about that that was a great little take about that that was a great little take about that that was a great little take oh yeah she um it's just a piece I read oh yeah she um it's just a piece I read oh yeah she um it's just a piece I read that I mean she's a billionaire right I that I mean she's a billionaire right I that I mean she's a billionaire right I mean she makes more an interest in the mean she makes more an interest in the mean she makes more an interest in the first five minutes of this podcast than first five minutes of this podcast than first five minutes of this podcast than most of us make in a year right right so most of us make in a year right right so most of us make in a year right right so I mean she's got moneyy this episode's I mean she's got moneyy this episode's I mean she's got moneyy this episode's brought to you by Taylor Swift by Taylor brought to you by Taylor Swift by Taylor brought to you by Taylor Swift by Taylor Swift billionaire step by her Jet by her Swift billionaire step by her Jet by her Swift billionaire step by her Jet by her plane so I mean you think about it if I plane so I mean you think about it if I plane so I mean you think about it if I say this episode's brought to you by say this episode's brought to you by say this episode's brought to you by does that mean that it gets people's does that mean that it gets people's does that mean that it gets people's attention and then they end up attention and then they end up attention and then they end up sponsoring the show is that not how it sponsoring the show is that not how it sponsoring the show is that not how it works cuz if I just keep saying like works cuz if I just keep saying like works cuz if I just keep saying like Toyota or whatever like well they go oh Toyota or whatever like well they go oh Toyota or whatever like well they go oh yeah here look I have promoted the Big yeah here look I have promoted the Big yeah here look I have promoted the Big Green Eggs so many times over the years Green Eggs so many times over the years Green Eggs so many times over the years they've got to be paying you no how do they've got to be paying you no how do they've got to be paying you no how do they not pay you I got one like repost they not pay you I got one like repost they not pay you I got one like repost rubber glove from them in the mail rubber glove from them in the mail rubber glove from them in the mail anything nothing not even a of green big anything nothing not even a of green big anything nothing not even a of green big what is going on here big greeg Tong what is going on here big greeg Tong what is going on here big greeg Tong unbelievable they should be sponsoring unbelievable they should be sponsoring unbelievable they should be sponsoring You' probably sold more big green eggs You' probably sold more big green eggs You' probably sold more big green eggs than any person yeah brought to you by than any person yeah brought to you by than any person yeah brought to you by Cay if anyone's listening my favorite Cay if anyone's listening my favorite Cay if anyone's listening my favorite boat that's my boat my boat's C if

boat that's my boat my boat's C if boat that's my boat my boat's C if you're listening but again I'm not exp you're listening but again I'm not exp you're listening but again I'm not exp so Taylor she could buy anything she so Taylor she could buy anything she so Taylor she could buy anything she could out Kardashian the Kardashian if could out Kardashian the Kardashian if could out Kardashian the Kardashian if she wanted to I mean you got that level she wanted to I mean you got that level she wanted to I mean you got that level of money you can do anything and the of money you can do anything and the of money you can do anything and the article was saying she dresses like she article was saying she dresses like she article was saying she dresses like she went to the mall yeah and you know I'm went to the mall yeah and you know I'm went to the mall yeah and you know I'm sure she has her dress for the award sure she has her dress for the award sure she has her dress for the award show and you know her costumes and show and you know her costumes and show and you know her costumes and everything for tour uh but one of the everything for tour uh but one of the everything for tour uh but one of the reasons she does that is she wants to reasons she does that is she wants to reasons she does that is she wants to keep connected to her fans yeah she keep connected to her fans yeah she keep connected to her fans yeah she wants to look like so when you see her wants to look like so when you see her wants to look like so when you see her coming in out of a club or an event with coming in out of a club or an event with coming in out of a club or an event with Travis Kelce right she's not usually Travis Kelce right she's not usually Travis Kelce right she's not usually dressed to the nines and they're like dressed to the nines and they're like dressed to the nines and they're like that for every teenage girl like you that for every teenage girl like you that for every teenage girl like you have three teenage daughters for every have three teenage daughters for every have three teenage daughters for every 25y old you know office clerk kind of 25y old you know office clerk kind of 25y old you know office clerk kind of thing who follows her they can relate to thing who follows her they can relate to thing who follows her they can relate to her better and I thought that's her better and I thought that's her better and I thought that's something really good genius crowd crowd something really good genius crowd crowd something really good genius crowd crowd don't outp your coverage I love that I don't outp your coverage I love that I don't outp your coverage I love that I love that okay uh what's a what's a Cary love that okay uh what's a what's a Cary love that okay uh what's a what's a Cary newoff hot take I was on a I was on uh newoff hot take I was on a I was on uh newoff hot take I was on a I was on uh one of the pods uh that that our staff one of the pods uh that that our staff one of the pods uh that that our staff does uh Morgan and lesie run this does uh Morgan and lesie run this does uh Morgan and lesie run this amazing pod am I doing this right for m amazing pod am I doing this right for m amazing pod am I doing this right for m focus on women and uh and and they start focus on women and uh and and they start focus on women and uh and and they start the Pod by by saying you know what's a the Pod by by saying you know what's a the Pod by by saying you know what's a hot take that that every guest has hot take that that every guest has hot take that that every guest has something that like everyone else is something that like everyone else is something that like everyone else is like what and then they come in what's a like what and then they come in what's a like what and then they come in what's a Carrie newoff like here's the thing guys Carrie newoff like here's the thing guys Carrie newoff like here's the thing guys this is actually a thing this is going this is actually a thing this is going this is actually a thing this is going to get me cancelled I think sabatical to get me cancelled I think sabatical to get me cancelled I think sabatical are overrated okay yeah everyone I talk are overrated okay yeah everyone I talk are overrated okay yeah everyone I talk to who's tired in leadership yes is like

to who's tired in leadership yes is like to who's tired in leadership yes is like I got to get to a sabatical in fact I'm I got to get to a sabatical in fact I'm I got to get to a sabatical in fact I'm running a poll right now as we record running a poll right now as we record running a poll right now as we record this what's your most effective strategy this what's your most effective strategy this what's your most effective strategy if you burned out to recover from if you burned out to recover from if you burned out to recover from burnout and the number one answer is I burnout and the number one answer is I burnout and the number one answer is I took a sabatical I took some time off took a sabatical I took some time off took a sabatical I took some time off and I've never had a sabatical you've and I've never had a sabatical you've and I've never had a sabatical you've never had a so no not no not to I was I never had a so no not no not to I was I never had a so no not no not to I was I was planning on announcing one next week was planning on announcing one next week was planning on announcing one next week but well all right let me just let me but well all right let me just let me but well all right let me just let me kill that for you now just kidding no I kill that for you now just kidding no I kill that for you now just kidding no I I don't know if I can set my life up for I don't know if I can set my life up for I don't know if I can set my life up for that I'd rather set my life up where I that I'd rather set my life up where I that I'd rather set my life up where I don't need a sabatical no critique on don't need a sabatical no critique on don't need a sabatical no critique on anyone but like that is the point yeah I anyone but like that is the point yeah I anyone but like that is the point yeah I mean that's the point like you've got a mean that's the point like you've got a mean that's the point like you've got a nice Rhythm You Preach you just preached nice Rhythm You Preach you just preached nice Rhythm You Preach you just preached seven sermons six sermons in the last 48 seven sermons six sermons in the last 48 seven sermons six sermons in the last 48 hours You Preach three times at hours You Preach three times at hours You Preach three times at connectus you did three on video today connectus you did three on video today connectus you did three on video today now we're here recording two pods yeah now we're here recording two pods yeah now we're here recording two pods yeah which is crazy but you know what you're which is crazy but you know what you're which is crazy but you know what you're going to get home you're going to see going to get home you're going to see going to get home you're going to see Aaron you're going to see the kids Aaron you're going to see the kids Aaron you're going to see the kids you're going to go golfing you're going you're going to go golfing you're going you're going to go golfing you're going to write for Bayside on the weekend all to write for Bayside on the weekend all to write for Bayside on the weekend all that stuff which is that stuff which is that stuff which is fantastic um I think that's the key and fantastic um I think that's the key and fantastic um I think that's the key and people are like I'm going to run dead to people are like I'm going to run dead to people are like I'm going to run dead to the Finish Line I'm going to take a the Finish Line I'm going to take a the Finish Line I'm going to take a sabatical I'm going to get well what sabatical I'm going to get well what sabatical I'm going to get well what they don't realize is they'll be they don't realize is they'll be they don't realize is they'll be roadkill the first month back you've got roadkill the first month back you've got roadkill the first month back you've got to change your Rhythm that's good and so to change your Rhythm that's good and so to change your Rhythm that's good and so I'm not I'm not against sabatical but I I'm not I'm not against sabatical but I I'm not I'm not against sabatical but I think you're holding them out as the think you're holding them out as the think you're holding them out as the Silver Bullet that this is going to save Silver Bullet that this is going to save Silver Bullet that this is going to save me and once I have a sabatical or once I me and once I have a sabatical or once I me and once I have a sabatical or once I have a Sabbath regularly right if you're have a Sabbath regularly right if you're have a Sabbath regularly right if you're running in the red six days a week your running in the red six days a week your running in the red six days a week your Sabbath isn't going to save you that's Sabbath isn't going to save you that's Sabbath isn't going to save you that's good that's really good um and often good that's really good um and often good that's really good um and often times what happens at least in bigger times what happens at least in bigger times what happens at least in bigger organizations I think in smaller organiz organizations I think in smaller organiz organizations I think in smaller organiz you know a church of whatever like you

you know a church of whatever like you you know a church of whatever like you know you could go on a sabatical come know you could go on a sabatical come know you could go on a sabatical come back and pick it up often times a big back and pick it up often times a big back and pick it up often times a big organization you disappear for 3 months organization you disappear for 3 months organization you disappear for 3 months the org's the org's going without you oh the org's the org's going without you oh the org's the org's going without you oh and if you're a good leader it's running and if you're a good leader it's running and if you're a good leader it's running as well or better right and then you as well or better right and then you as well or better right and then you come back like hey I'm still needed you come back like hey I'm still needed you come back like hey I'm still needed you know or uh or there's some guy a lot of know or uh or there's some guy a lot of know or uh or there's some guy a lot of men and women who go about they don't men and women who go about they don't men and women who go about they don't come back yeah you realize like they get come back yeah you realize like they get come back yeah you realize like they get they they get some distance from the they they get some distance from the they they get some distance from the organization and they're like I'm out organization and they're like I'm out organization and they're like I'm out but if you can run at a healthy Pace but if you can run at a healthy Pace but if you can run at a healthy Pace have you had this on vacation I'm have you had this on vacation I'm have you had this on vacation I'm putting you on the spot where you're G putting you on the spot where you're G putting you on the spot where you're G for two or three weeks and at the end for two or three weeks and at the end for two or three weeks and at the end you're like yeah I'm ready to go back oh you're like yeah I'm ready to go back oh you're like yeah I'm ready to go back oh for sure I get that all the time I'm for sure I get that all the time I'm for sure I get that all the time I'm like I am now bored enough yes I'm bored like I am now bored enough yes I'm bored like I am now bored enough yes I'm bored enough like this was fun 100% And you enough like this was fun 100% And you enough like this was fun 100% And you love like the pool the beach the sun love like the pool the beach the sun love like the pool the beach the sun love Yeah Yeah 100% but but you also get love Yeah Yeah 100% but but you also get love Yeah Yeah 100% but but you also get daily doses of it where you live and how daily doses of it where you live and how daily doses of it where you live and how how not just where you live how you live how not just where you live how you live how not just where you live how you live yeah cuz there's a lot of people who yeah cuz there's a lot of people who yeah cuz there's a lot of people who live in a beautiful place like you do live in a beautiful place like you do live in a beautiful place like you do who like live in cubical purgatory yeah who like live in cubical purgatory yeah who like live in cubical purgatory yeah and never see the light of and never see the light of and never see the light of day you make your own misery that's a day you make your own misery that's a day you make your own misery that's a really good and and I think that like really good and and I think that like really good and and I think that like like you said I've been you know whether like you said I've been you know whether like you said I've been you know whether I take a vacation for a week or two and I take a vacation for a week or two and I take a vacation for a week or two and it's reading by the pool and hanging out it's reading by the pool and hanging out it's reading by the pool and hanging out with the girls and and by the time I'm with the girls and and by the time I'm with the girls and and by the time I'm done I'm ready to get back in and you're done I'm ready to get back in and you're done I'm ready to get back in and you're jacked to get work done and excited you jacked to get work done and excited you jacked to get work done and excited you know so that so that's that's great know so that so that's that's great know so that so that's that's great setting your life up in a way where you setting your life up in a way where you setting your life up in a way where you don't have to disappear for 3 or 4 don't have to disappear for 3 or 4 don't have to disappear for 3 or 4 months probably the better route but I

months probably the better route but I months probably the better route but I understand when people hit a wall so let understand when people hit a wall so let understand when people hit a wall so let me let me just segue that quickly me let me just segue that quickly me let me just segue that quickly because one of the things I wanted to because one of the things I wanted to because one of the things I wanted to talk to you about was you are known as talk to you about was you are known as talk to you about was you are known as someone who worked thems or whatever it someone who worked thems or whatever it someone who worked thems or whatever it is you can tell us into a burnout is you can tell us into a burnout is you can tell us into a burnout scenario and you wrote a book about it scenario and you wrote a book about it scenario and you wrote a book about it didn't see it coming which is a didn't see it coming which is a didn't see it coming which is a fantastic book for any leader out there fantastic book for any leader out there fantastic book for any leader out there who's feeling tired and burnt out and who's feeling tired and burnt out and who's feeling tired and burnt out and like anxious and at the end of themsel like anxious and at the end of themsel like anxious and at the end of themsel and going what do I do that's the book and going what do I do that's the book and going what do I do that's the book to get didn't see it coming go go look to get didn't see it coming go go look to get didn't see it coming go go look it up on Amazon buy right now um this it up on Amazon buy right now um this it up on Amazon buy right now um this episode brought to you by didn't see it episode brought to you by didn't see it episode brought to you by didn't see it coming thank you by K newoff no but coming thank you by K newoff no but coming thank you by K newoff no but serious no joke that is amazing um but serious no joke that is amazing um but serious no joke that is amazing um but you tell that story in that book like to you tell that story in that book like to you tell that story in that book like to you're very vulnerable you you go right you're very vulnerable you you go right you're very vulnerable you you go right into your whole mental state and mental into your whole mental state and mental into your whole mental state and mental illness so take us through a bit of illness so take us through a bit of illness so take us through a bit of maybe that story just a quick I know you maybe that story just a quick I know you maybe that story just a quick I know you don't want to go on about it for an hour don't want to go on about it for an hour don't want to go on about it for an hour because you've gone there and then and because you've gone there and then and because you've gone there and then and then what would you say to people then what would you say to people then what would you say to people leaders moms dads whatever Business leaders moms dads whatever Business leaders moms dads whatever Business Leaders pastors about how to avoid that Leaders pastors about how to avoid that Leaders pastors about how to avoid that heyy you going off a a cliff burnout you heyy you going off a a cliff burnout you heyy you going off a a cliff burnout you you you you wore yourself out yeah well you you you wore yourself out yeah well you you you wore yourself out yeah well I did I mean you said you worked I did I mean you said you worked I did I mean you said you worked yourself into burnout I did and it was yourself into burnout I did and it was yourself into burnout I did and it was it was pastoring that was my 30s I it was pastoring that was my 30s I it was pastoring that was my 30s I started a church it was a handful of started a church it was a handful of started a church it was a handful of people we would have all fit in this people we would have all fit in this people we would have all fit in this office yeah no problem and uh it started office yeah no problem and uh it started office yeah no problem and uh it started to grow by God's grace and it was a good to grow by God's grace and it was a good to grow by God's grace and it was a good story and I didn't have a good formula story and I didn't have a good formula story and I didn't have a good formula to scale it so in my head more people

to scale it so in my head more people to scale it so in my head more people equals more hours throw into the fact equals more hours throw into the fact equals more hours throw into the fact that you're working for God so time off that you're working for God so time off that you're working for God so time off can't be good more hours has to be good can't be good more hours has to be good can't be good more hours has to be good it has to be faithful so it was it was it has to be faithful so it was it was it has to be faithful so it was it was pretty like well-intentioned but messed pretty like well-intentioned but messed pretty like well-intentioned but messed up in my head yeah and you know we grew up in my head yeah and you know we grew up in my head yeah and you know we grew to 7 800 people on the weekend and it to 7 800 people on the weekend and it to 7 800 people on the weekend and it was the biggest church I was a part of was the biggest church I was a part of was the biggest church I was a part of to that point and I I just you know kept to that point and I I just you know kept to that point and I I just you know kept trying to swim faster and faster and trying to swim faster and faster and trying to swim faster and faster and ended up drowning yeah so it was 7800 by ended up drowning yeah so it was 7800 by ended up drowning yeah so it was 7800 by the way is a mega mega church in Canada the way is a mega mega church in Canada the way is a mega mega church in Canada yeah you know when you have cows for yeah you know when you have cows for yeah you know when you have cows for Neighbors as you yeah yeah we're going Neighbors as you yeah yeah we're going Neighbors as you yeah yeah we're going to talk we're going to talk about that to talk we're going to talk about that to talk we're going to talk about that here we are in Oro Madan which like here we are in Oro Madan which like here we are in Oro Madan which like newoff you don't know how to pronounce newoff you don't know how to pronounce newoff you don't know how to pronounce so I think I call it horal mediate when so I think I call it horal mediate when so I think I call it horal mediate when I was preaching yesterday which I don't I was preaching yesterday which I don't I was preaching yesterday which I don't know what that means so know what that means so know what that means so we we yeah I and you know the other we we yeah I and you know the other we we yeah I and you know the other thing too is arrogance as a young leader thing too is arrogance as a young leader thing too is arrogance as a young leader I I thought people were telling me man I I thought people were telling me man I I thought people were telling me man if you keep going like this you're going if you keep going like this you're going if you keep going like this you're going to burn out I'm like burnouts for to burn out I'm like burnouts for to burn out I'm like burnouts for weaklings I'm not a weakling like I'm weaklings I'm not a weakling like I'm weaklings I'm not a weakling like I'm not burning out and I burned out like I not burning out and I burned out like I not burning out and I burned out like I burned out and when was the first burned out and when was the first burned out and when was the first indicator you were like oh something's indicator you were like oh something's indicator you were like oh something's wrong looking well I thought nothing was wrong looking well I thought nothing was wrong looking well I thought nothing was wrong until I hit the wall right and wrong until I hit the wall right and wrong until I hit the wall right and then when I lost all my motivation I then when I lost all my motivation I then when I lost all my motivation I showed all the signs of clinical showed all the signs of clinical showed all the signs of clinical depression and so on then I'm like okay depression and so on then I'm like okay depression and so on then I'm like okay something's wrong looking back on it something's wrong looking back on it something's wrong looking back on it probably for two or 3 years running into

probably for two or 3 years running into probably for two or 3 years running into it I was redlining it I was redlining it I was redlining but you're young strong running on empty but you're young strong running on empty but you're young strong running on empty but you're young you're strong the rules but you're young you're strong the rules but you're young you're strong the rules don't apply to you you know my wife was don't apply to you you know my wife was don't apply to you you know my wife was saying for years this is not good you're saying for years this is not good you're saying for years this is not good you're not healthy other people were saying not healthy other people were saying not healthy other people were saying that but I just ignored everybody and that but I just ignored everybody and that but I just ignored everybody and the confusing thing is the church kept the confusing thing is the church kept the confusing thing is the church kept growing so I'm like well God must be growing so I'm like well God must be growing so I'm like well God must be blessing this so why why would I stop so blessing this so why why would I stop so blessing this so why why would I stop so it was it was all kinds of convoluted it was it was all kinds of convoluted it was it was all kinds of convoluted reasoning in my head and again when reasoning in my head and again when reasoning in my head and again when you're not healthy part of not being you're not healthy part of not being you're not healthy part of not being healthy is you're not thinking straight healthy is you're not thinking straight healthy is you're not thinking straight right so I wasn't thinking straight so right so I wasn't thinking straight so right so I wasn't thinking straight so it really took like running into a wall it really took like running into a wall it really took like running into a wall and you know I'd spoken at at the and you know I'd spoken at at the and you know I'd spoken at at the biggest conference I'd ever spoken to to biggest conference I'd ever spoken to to biggest conference I'd ever spoken to to date um in Atlanta in date um in Atlanta in date um in Atlanta in 2006 and I thought I was on top of the 2006 and I thought I was on top of the 2006 and I thought I was on top of the world apparently knocked it out of the world apparently knocked it out of the world apparently knocked it out of the park you know that feeling when you gave park you know that feeling when you gave park you know that feeling when you gave a talk and you just know it connected a talk and you just know it connected a talk and you just know it connected and it was a home run was one of those and it was a home run was one of those and it was a home run was one of those and I flew back from Atlanta to Toronto and I flew back from Atlanta to Toronto and I flew back from Atlanta to Toronto and when we landed in in Toronto it was and when we landed in in Toronto it was and when we landed in in Toronto it was this giant sucking sound I just fell off this giant sucking sound I just fell off this giant sucking sound I just fell off a cliff and that was it wow and I was I a cliff and that was it wow and I was I a cliff and that was it wow and I was I was done so that took me months to get was done so that took me months to get was done so that took me months to get out of but looking back on it yeah I out of but looking back on it yeah I out of but looking back on it yeah I mean if I ever got close to feeling like mean if I ever got close to feeling like mean if I ever got close to feeling like that again like I was three years before that again like I was three years before that again like I was three years before burnout I would I would really pay burnout I would I would really pay burnout I would I would really pay attention to that so what so for people attention to that so what so for people attention to that so what so for people listening to this leaders pastors listening to this leaders pastors listening to this leaders pastors whatever what would be like two or three whatever what would be like two or three whatever what would be like two or three bullet points to to watch out for like

bullet points to to watch out for like bullet points to to watch out for like hey you don't even know what you don't hey you don't even know what you don't hey you don't even know what you don't know but you're you're reaching you know know but you're you're reaching you know know but you're you're reaching you know you're burning out feeling numb numb I you're burning out feeling numb numb I you're burning out feeling numb numb I was numb I was emotionally numb just was numb I was emotionally numb just was numb I was emotionally numb just just new like no ups and downs no highs just new like no ups and downs no highs just new like no ups and downs no highs and lows a lot of flatness or when the and lows a lot of flatness or when the and lows a lot of flatness or when the emotions came out they were emotions came out they were emotions came out they were inappropriate so you know like we we inappropriate so you know like we we inappropriate so you know like we we took a minute to get set up I took a took a minute to get set up I took a took a minute to get set up I took a minute to get set up because it was a minute to get set up because it was a minute to get set up because it was a new configuration took me like five new configuration took me like five new configuration took me like five tries to get both mics working and tries to get both mics working and tries to get both mics working and recording recording recording properly you know then at that today properly you know then at that today properly you know then at that today joking around laughing singing doing joking around laughing singing doing joking around laughing singing doing stupid things when I'm not well that stupid things when I'm not well that stupid things when I'm not well that sends me over the edge I would have been sends me over the edge I would have been sends me over the edge I would have been like just like you know that was a three like just like you know that was a three like just like you know that was a three out of 10 problem but I would react as a out of 10 problem but I would react as a out of 10 problem but I would react as a 12 out of 10 conversely you might tell 12 out of 10 conversely you might tell 12 out of 10 conversely you might tell me that something bad happened to Aaron me that something bad happened to Aaron me that something bad happened to Aaron or one of your girls and I'd be like oh or one of your girls and I'd be like oh or one of your girls and I'd be like oh that's too bad but on the inside I don't that's too bad but on the inside I don't that's too bad but on the inside I don't feel anything right so you know you feel anything right so you know you feel anything right so you know you should as the scripture says Rejoice should as the scripture says Rejoice should as the scripture says Rejoice with those who Rejoice mourn with those with those who Rejoice mourn with those with those who Rejoice mourn with those who mourn so my emotions were broken who mourn so my emotions were broken who mourn so my emotions were broken that was one wow secondly um irritated that was one wow secondly um irritated that was one wow secondly um irritated with the people around me and a third with the people around me and a third with the people around me and a third sign is well I'll give you four third is sign is well I'll give you four third is sign is well I'll give you four third is your passion Fades I just wasn't that your passion Fades I just wasn't that your passion Fades I just wasn't that passionate anymore about things and passionate anymore about things and passionate anymore about things and another one was everything and everybody another one was everything and everybody another one was everything and everybody drained me I mean there are draining drained me I mean there are draining drained me I mean there are draining people let's be honest okay you get people let's be honest okay you get people let's be honest okay you get draining people in life people get draining people in life people get draining people in life people get draining but when everybody drains you draining but when everybody drains you draining but when everybody drains you when everything drains you like we're when everything drains you like we're when everything drains you like we're going out for dinner tonight I'm excited going out for dinner tonight I'm excited going out for dinner tonight I'm excited for that man like I'm I'm like pumped

for that man like I'm I'm like pumped for that man like I'm I'm like pumped but it when I wasn't well everything but it when I wasn't well everything but it when I wasn't well everything felt like a chore wow everything just felt like a chore wow everything just felt like a chore wow everything just felt too difficult yeah interesting okay felt too difficult yeah interesting okay felt too difficult yeah interesting okay that's really good um so uh let's hear a that's really good um so uh let's hear a that's really good um so uh let's hear a little bit more about your your little bit more about your your little bit more about your your personality uh profile you know we were personality uh profile you know we were personality uh profile you know we were joking earlier but like anyag like I joking earlier but like anyag like I joking earlier but like anyag like I don't know if you've looked into that don't know if you've looked into that don't know if you've looked into that whatever I know people aren't huge fans whatever I know people aren't huge fans whatever I know people aren't huge fans of the enag because it has ties to of the enag because it has ties to of the enag because it has ties to different things you know aside from all different things you know aside from all different things you know aside from all that what is your kind of what's your that what is your kind of what's your that what is your kind of what's your personality profile what's your like personality profile what's your like personality profile what's your like this is the Cary new because because we this is the Cary new because because we this is the Cary new because because we all you know most of us who follow K all you know most of us who follow K all you know most of us who follow K newoff we know you cut your lawn you got newoff we know you cut your lawn you got newoff we know you cut your lawn you got your lawn lines you hashtag lawn lines your lawn lines you hashtag lawn lines your lawn lines you hashtag lawn lines we look at you and go okay that's a type we look at you and go okay that's a type we look at you and go okay that's a type A guy like he he's jacked about A guy like he he's jacked about A guy like he he's jacked about detailing his boat he's jacked about his detailing his boat he's jacked about his detailing his boat he's jacked about his lawn lines what who is what is that lawn lines what who is what is that lawn lines what who is what is that personality profile in you yeah I personality profile in you yeah I personality profile in you yeah I definitely I thought I was so if you definitely I thought I was so if you definitely I thought I was so if you know the anagram I thought I was a one a know the anagram I thought I was a one a know the anagram I thought I was a one a one is a perfectionist I mean you seen one is a perfectionist I mean you seen one is a perfectionist I mean you seen my garage it's very clean my garage it's very clean my garage it's very clean yeah so I like to have everything in yeah so I like to have everything in yeah so I like to have everything in this place place for everything I'm not this place place for everything I'm not this place place for everything I'm not a one I'm an eight so an eight is a a one I'm an eight so an eight is a a one I'm an eight so an eight is a challenger that means I have a big challenger that means I have a big challenger that means I have a big personality large and in charge I take personality large and in charge I take personality large and in charge I take command and that is both good and bad command and that is both good and bad command and that is both good and bad like any type so the unhealthy side like any type so the unhealthy side like any type so the unhealthy side you're a bulldozer in a china shop you you're a bulldozer in a china shop you you're a bulldozer in a china shop you you just destroy people anything you just destroy people anything you just destroy people anything anything justifies the end sure hey if anything justifies the end sure hey if anything justifies the end sure hey if we got to 10,000 people and you're the

we got to 10,000 people and you're the we got to 10,000 people and you're the road kill so be it you know we didn't road kill so be it you know we didn't road kill so be it you know we didn't need you anyway so that's a negative need you anyway so that's a negative need you anyway so that's a negative side you talking about side you talking about side you talking about there you know and when I was unhealthy there you know and when I was unhealthy there you know and when I was unhealthy that would leak through not necessarily that would leak through not necessarily that would leak through not necessarily from the platform but to the people from the platform but to the people from the platform but to the people closest to me my wife my children uh my closest to me my wife my children uh my closest to me my wife my children uh my staff the team because for an eight from staff the team because for an eight from staff the team because for an eight from what I understand you know I've been what I understand you know I've been what I understand you know I've been profile as an eight not I don't really profile as an eight not I don't really profile as an eight not I don't really look too deep into these things but um look too deep into these things but um look too deep into these things but um one of the things is Justice drives you one of the things is Justice drives you one of the things is Justice drives you yes a sense of justice so you're yes a sense of justice so you're yes a sense of justice so you're constantly you justify you know bullying constantly you justify you know bullying constantly you justify you know bullying Behavior if it's or whatever Behavior Behavior if it's or whatever Behavior Behavior if it's or whatever Behavior like you're saying a bull in a china like you're saying a bull in a china like you're saying a bull in a china shop or whatever uh you justify a bit of shop or whatever uh you justify a bit of shop or whatever uh you justify a bit of that because the because the cause that that because the because the cause that that because the because the cause that you're fighting for is just it's it's you're fighting for is just it's it's you're fighting for is just it's it's the poor it's the justifies you want to the poor it's the justifies you want to the poor it's the justifies you want to we're reaching on church people shut up we're reaching on church people shut up we're reaching on church people shut up yeah exactly yeah yeah so you know that yeah exactly yeah yeah so you know that yeah exactly yeah yeah so you know that then you get the healthier side and that then you get the healthier side and that then you get the healthier side and that has been a focus of mine for the last has been a focus of mine for the last has been a focus of mine for the last almost 20 years yeah that's so good is almost 20 years yeah that's so good is almost 20 years yeah that's so good is you know I want to show fruits of the you know I want to show fruits of the you know I want to show fruits of the Holy Spirit and you can do that and so I Holy Spirit and you can do that and so I Holy Spirit and you can do that and so I look at it this way I want the people's look at it this way I want the people's look at it this way I want the people's closest to me to have the best closest to me to have the best closest to me to have the best experience of me so I want Tony to get experience of me so I want Tony to get experience of me so I want Tony to get the best of me not the worst of me and the best of me not the worst of me and the best of me not the worst of me and on my bad days she gets the worst of me on my bad days she gets the worst of me on my bad days she gets the worst of me you know yeah car's so nice for this you know yeah car's so nice for this you know yeah car's so nice for this podcast and then when I'm home and and podcast and then when I'm home and and podcast and then when I'm home and and here's here's the thing about Carrie here's here's the thing about Carrie here's here's the thing about Carrie that yall have to know too though uh that yall have to know too though uh that yall have to know too though uh we're holding these things because back

we're holding these things because back we're holding these things because back we can't afford stands we have no stands we can't afford stands we have no stands we can't afford stands we have no stands maybe maybe in year 11 we'll get a stand maybe maybe in year 11 we'll get a stand maybe maybe in year 11 we'll get a stand so we just we should acknowledge that so we just we should acknowledge that so we just we should acknowledge that for the why they holding these for the why they holding these for the why they holding these random random random pod remember the long mic in the 7s the pod remember the long mic in the 7s the pod remember the long mic in the 7s the best that was crazy a baton so we're out best that was crazy a baton so we're out best that was crazy a baton so we're out for dinner last night me you and Tony for dinner last night me you and Tony for dinner last night me you and Tony and and you guys got to know like I and and you guys got to know like I and and you guys got to know like I don't know how much you talk about your don't know how much you talk about your don't know how much you talk about your marriage on your pod probably not a ton marriage on your pod probably not a ton marriage on your pod probably not a ton but he has an awesome marriage listen but he has an awesome marriage listen but he has an awesome marriage listen you would know I do listen I listen all you would know I do listen I listen all you would know I do listen I listen all the time I'm just saying you probably the time I'm just saying you probably the time I'm just saying you probably don't site your marriage every 20 don't site your marriage every 20 don't site your marriage every 20 seconds when you're talking to Emperors seconds when you're talking to Emperors seconds when you're talking to Emperors and rulers of Nations sorry so uh uh so and rulers of Nations sorry so uh uh so and rulers of Nations sorry so uh uh so he's sitting there and we're and we're he's sitting there and we're and we're he's sitting there and we're and we're talking and he's he's still in a learner talking and he's he's still in a learner talking and he's he's still in a learner mode okay and this about you is so mode okay and this about you is so mode okay and this about you is so brilliant and genius and and wonderful brilliant and genius and and wonderful brilliant and genius and and wonderful for every young leader and per human for every young leader and per human for every young leader and per human being to know that you're however old being to know that you're however old being to know that you're however old let's say 50 let's say 50 let's say 50 and uh and and still you're sitting and uh and and still you're sitting and uh and and still you're sitting there and you're looking across the there and you're looking across the there and you're looking across the table at me and asking me questions I'm table at me and asking me questions I'm table at me and asking me questions I'm like what do I you're like how do you like what do I you're like how do you like what do I you're like how do you how are you a good dad or a good husband how are you a good dad or a good husband how are you a good dad or a good husband I'm like I'm not sure I am then you're I'm like I'm not sure I am then you're I'm like I'm not sure I am then you're like yeah but what and then and then like yeah but what and then and then like yeah but what and then and then you're looking at Tony and you're like you're looking at Tony and you're like you're looking at Tony and you're like hey what he just said about being like hey what he just said about being like hey what he just said about being like am I like that cuz I want to I want to am I like that cuz I want to I want to am I like that cuz I want to I want to be like that and you're still learning be like that and you're still learning be like that and you're still learning and I think don't you think that that's and I think don't you think that that's and I think don't you think that that's part of like like for me that whole part of like like for me that whole part of like like for me that whole level five leader humility you level five leader humility you level five leader humility you you are a humble leader and I think that

you are a humble leader and I think that you are a humble leader and I think that has been one of your secret sauces of has been one of your secret sauces of has been one of your secret sauces of success is that you're humble you're success is that you're humble you're success is that you're humble you're you're so I don't know what personality you're so I don't know what personality you're so I don't know what personality profile tells you that you're like profile tells you that you're like profile tells you that you're like you're you're you're a curious person a you're you're you're a curious person a you're you're you're a curious person a curious leader and you have to be humble curious leader and you have to be humble curious leader and you have to be humble to be curious because pride pride filled to be curious because pride pride filled to be curious because pride pride filled people aren't curious people they're not people aren't curious people they're not people aren't curious people they're not like give me more information there's like give me more information there's like give me more information there's something I know but you're curious and something I know but you're curious and something I know but you're curious and that's what makes you a great podcaster that's what makes you a great podcaster that's what makes you a great podcaster you're constantly going after you're constantly going after you're constantly going after information from information from information from people how where did that come from why people how where did that come from why people how where did that come from why are you like that that was a decision so are you like that that was a decision so are you like that that was a decision so 50 was a big birthday for me it happened 50 was a big birthday for me it happened 50 was a big birthday for me it happened a number of years a number of years a number of years ago and as I closed in on you know that ago and as I closed in on you know that ago and as I closed in on you know that decade I really did a lot of reflection decade I really did a lot of reflection decade I really did a lot of reflection a lot of praying a lot of thinking and a lot of praying a lot of thinking and a lot of praying a lot of thinking and you know I was starting to move into you know I was starting to move into you know I was starting to move into areas of expertise where you have enough areas of expertise where you have enough areas of expertise where you have enough reps where you become an expert at reps where you become an expert at reps where you become an expert at things or you're seen to be an expert my things or you're seen to be an expert my things or you're seen to be an expert my favorite definition of expert is someone favorite definition of expert is someone favorite definition of expert is someone who's not from your hometown it's who's not from your hometown it's who's not from your hometown it's exactly what an expert is you just bring exactly what an expert is you just bring exactly what an expert is you just bring someone in it's like they're an someone in it's like they're an someone in it's like they're an expert true but I I remember watching expert true but I I remember watching expert true but I I remember watching this documentary on PBS and it was just this documentary on PBS and it was just this documentary on PBS and it was just a random show one Saturday there's this a random show one Saturday there's this a random show one Saturday there's this guy who I think is 80 a professor he's guy who I think is 80 a professor he's guy who I think is 80 a professor he's in like the tweed jacket sitting up in like the tweed jacket sitting up in like the tweed jacket sitting up straight yeah and he goes you know straight yeah and he goes you know straight yeah and he goes you know interest question according to the interest question according to the interest question according to the latest research what I'm discovering is

latest research what I'm discovering is latest research what I'm discovering is blah blah blah and I'm like dude you're blah blah blah and I'm like dude you're blah blah blah and I'm like dude you're 80 what are you still doing researching 80 what are you still doing researching 80 what are you still doing researching research and then I thought but there's research and then I thought but there's research and then I thought but there's something so compelling about that to be something so compelling about that to be something so compelling about that to be 80 and still a student and I thought I 80 and still a student and I thought I 80 and still a student and I thought I want to be that guy when I'm 80 and so I want to be that guy when I'm 80 and so I want to be that guy when I'm 80 and so I I really made a concerted effort to be I really made a concerted effort to be I really made a concerted effort to be curious to be one of my goals this year curious to be one of my goals this year curious to be one of my goals this year less of a teacher more of a student uh less of a teacher more of a student uh less of a teacher more of a student uh couple years ago I started going to couple years ago I started going to couple years ago I started going to events cuz I eventually you know it events cuz I eventually you know it events cuz I eventually you know it happens in when you do what we do is you happens in when you do what we do is you happens in when you do what we do is you end up only going to things where you're end up only going to things where you're end up only going to things where you're paid to be there and to speak uh I'm paid to be there and to speak uh I'm paid to be there and to speak uh I'm going to go to things where I pay to be going to go to things where I pay to be going to go to things where I pay to be there and I'm the student and um that there and I'm the student and um that there and I'm the student and um that that I think is really good and it makes that I think is really good and it makes that I think is really good and it makes me first of all you know if I think me first of all you know if I think me first of all you know if I think you're right I hadn't made the link this you're right I hadn't made the link this you're right I hadn't made the link this is really helpful between curiosity and is really helpful between curiosity and is really helpful between curiosity and humility and but I I do see the link humility and but I I do see the link humility and but I I do see the link between pride and and knowledge cuz between pride and and knowledge cuz between pride and and knowledge cuz knowledge pops up sure and I think if knowledge pops up sure and I think if knowledge pops up sure and I think if you get to my stage of life it's so easy you get to my stage of life it's so easy you get to my stage of life it's so easy to be cynical cuz you do know a lot and to be cynical cuz you do know a lot and to be cynical cuz you do know a lot and then you're like well dude here's why then you're like well dude here's why then you're like well dude here's why that is going to work and you're not that is going to work and you're not that is going to work and you're not cynical the thing about you Carri is cynical the thing about you Carri is cynical the thing about you Carri is like and people talk about this you have like and people talk about this you have like and people talk about this you have these so many podcasts or interviewers these so many podcasts or interviewers these so many podcasts or interviewers that are the gotcha interviewers right that are the gotcha interviewers right that are the gotcha interviewers right I'm going to have so and so on my pod I'm going to have so and so on my pod I'm going to have so and so on my pod and I'm going to go okay so and so well and I'm going to go okay so and so well and I'm going to go okay so and so well here's the thing you got caught in that here's the thing you got caught in that here's the thing you got caught in that thing and this is blog about you your thing and this is blog about you your thing and this is blog about you your interviews are so positive and interviews are so positive and interviews are so positive and optimistic and hopeful how have you held

optimistic and hopeful how have you held optimistic and hopeful how have you held on to that in the midst of your own you on to that in the midst of your own you on to that in the midst of your own you went through a thing you came out like went through a thing you came out like went through a thing you came out like how why are you so positive and just how why are you so positive and just how why are you so positive and just interested in everybody's story I interested in everybody's story I interested in everybody's story I decided when I launched the podcast I decided when I launched the podcast I decided when I launched the podcast I didn't want it to be a gotcha right show didn't want it to be a gotcha right show didn't want it to be a gotcha right show cuz there were enough of them then there cuz there were enough of them then there cuz there were enough of them then there are more of them now yeah and the thing are more of them now yeah and the thing are more of them now yeah and the thing is and blog posts too like there's whole is and blog posts too like there's whole is and blog posts too like there's whole blogs of people who make money off blogs of people who make money off blogs of people who make money off ambulance chasing Christians who make ambulance chasing Christians who make ambulance chasing Christians who make mistakes 100% And I decided number one a mistakes 100% And I decided number one a mistakes 100% And I decided number one a lot of the people I interview are my lot of the people I interview are my lot of the people I interview are my friends and I started with my friends friends and I started with my friends friends and I started with my friends yeah good and you know and obviously yeah good and you know and obviously yeah good and you know and obviously I've had to pull some episodes down of I've had to pull some episodes down of I've had to pull some episodes down of people I interviewed there were things people I interviewed there were things people I interviewed there were things about them I didn't know at the time about them I didn't know at the time about them I didn't know at the time yeah and I pulled those episodes down yeah and I pulled those episodes down yeah and I pulled those episodes down and I hope I don't have to pull any more and I hope I don't have to pull any more and I hope I don't have to pull any more down in the future but like I'm not out down in the future but like I'm not out down in the future but like I'm not out I don't mind asking hard questions but I don't mind asking hard questions but I don't mind asking hard questions but I've also people have opened up about I've also people have opened up about I've also people have opened up about things on my show that they generally things on my show that they generally things on my show that they generally don't open up about and I think it's don't open up about and I think it's don't open up about and I think it's because they trust me I also tell every because they trust me I also tell every because they trust me I also tell every guest you have editing rights so if guest you have editing rights so if guest you have editing rights so if something doesn't come out the way you something doesn't come out the way you something doesn't come out the way you want it to I'm not after that headline want it to I'm not after that headline want it to I'm not after that headline you let me know we'll cut it out sure you let me know we'll cut it out sure you let me know we'll cut it out sure some people would say was that some people would say was that some people would say was that censorship or whatever no it's actually censorship or whatever no it's actually censorship or whatever no it's actually it actually means I want Craig relle it actually means I want Craig relle it actually means I want Craig relle back on my podcast again next year yeah back on my podcast again next year yeah back on my podcast again next year yeah of course and I want this to be a of course and I want this to be a of course and I want this to be a destination yeah and if you you get a destination yeah and if you you get a destination yeah and if you you get a reputation very very quickly as an reputation very very quickly as an reputation very very quickly as an interviewer and so now you know we're interviewer and so now you know we're interviewer and so now you know we're sought out people want to be on the Pod sought out people want to be on the Pod sought out people want to be on the Pod they want to be on the show and I'm they want to be on the show and I'm they want to be on the show and I'm delivering something that I think is

delivering something that I think is delivering something that I think is going to be helpful and encouraging to going to be helpful and encouraging to going to be helpful and encouraging to my listeners to the leaders listening my listeners to the leaders listening my listeners to the leaders listening because there's enough gotcha places and because there's enough gotcha places and because there's enough gotcha places and I just I don't know that I could sleep I just I don't know that I could sleep I just I don't know that I could sleep at night knowing that that my headline at night knowing that that my headline at night knowing that that my headline and my gain and my financial reward came and my gain and my financial reward came and my gain and my financial reward came at someone else's expense yeah oh that's at someone else's expense yeah oh that's at someone else's expense yeah oh that's just that doesn't that doesn't S that's just that doesn't that doesn't S that's just that doesn't that doesn't S that's good that's really good um Okay so so good that's really good um Okay so so good that's really good um Okay so so shift here a little bit so uh you at shift here a little bit so uh you at shift here a little bit so uh you at some point in your life transitioned some point in your life transitioned some point in your life transitioned from church leader I mean you were from church leader I mean you were from church leader I mean you were running you have a great story where running you have a great story where running you have a great story where you're running these small little two or you're running these small little two or you're running these small little two or three different churches these three different churches these three different churches these Presbyterian churches and you're Presbyterian churches and you're Presbyterian churches and you're pastoring them and then you your plant pastoring them and then you your plant pastoring them and then you your plant connects us and it grows and and we're connects us and it grows and and we're connects us and it grows and and we're talking about talking about talking about like uh like like you said earlier we're like uh like like you said earlier we're like uh like like you said earlier we're we're sitting in the middle of nowhere we're sitting in the middle of nowhere we're sitting in the middle of nowhere here okay this is his neighbors are cows here okay this is his neighbors are cows here okay this is his neighbors are cows and horses in my basement yeah sleeping and horses in my basement yeah sleeping and horses in my basement yeah sleeping in the spare room next door yeah and you in the spare room next door yeah and you in the spare room next door yeah and you you you've you you've you you've built you've built an built you've built an built you've built an Empire okay of of podcasting and writing Empire okay of of podcasting and writing Empire okay of of podcasting and writing and newsletters and articles and and newsletters and articles and and newsletters and articles and blogging you have built literally an blogging you have built literally an blogging you have built literally an Empire you work for yourself you do very Empire you work for yourself you do very Empire you work for yourself you do very well you've been very successful all of well you've been very successful all of well you've been very successful all of these amazing things that everyone these amazing things that everyone these amazing things that everyone everyone in the America and Canada knows everyone in the America and Canada knows everyone in the America and Canada knows from your little a house in the middle from your little a house in the middle from your little a house in the middle of nowhere guys I'm G tell you there's a of nowhere guys I'm G tell you there's a of nowhere guys I'm G tell you there's a cow outside there's a horse running here cow outside there's a horse running here cow outside there's a horse running here I saw a lady churning butter five I saw a lady churning butter five I saw a lady churning butter five minutes up the road I mean there's

minutes up the road I mean there's minutes up the road I mean there's nobody here there's no electricity it nobody here there's no electricity it nobody here there's no electricity it runs on batteries um it's crazy in your runs on batteries um it's crazy in your runs on batteries um it's crazy in your basement of your house in Canada which basement of your house in Canada which basement of your house in Canada which nobody even knows nobody even knows nobody even knows about you move you transitioned from about you move you transitioned from about you move you transitioned from church leader you grew a big thing church leader you grew a big thing church leader you grew a big thing you're pastoring you're preaching you're pastoring you're preaching you're pastoring you're preaching amazing Communicator world class how did amazing Communicator world class how did amazing Communicator world class how did you know first off how did you know you know first off how did you know you know first off how did you know about that transition that you knew this about that transition that you knew this about that transition that you knew this is what I wanted to do and then second I is what I wanted to do and then second I is what I wanted to do and then second I want to get into how did you build this want to get into how did you build this want to get into how did you build this amazing thing that you're doing so first amazing thing that you're doing so first amazing thing that you're doing so first transition from church local church transition from church local church transition from church local church leadership Church planter leadership Church planter leadership Church planter preacher and then I want to start doing preacher and then I want to start doing preacher and then I want to start doing a Global a Global a Global Leadership I want to influence this Leadership I want to influence this Leadership I want to influence this globally with a podcast and a writing globally with a podcast and a writing globally with a podcast and a writing and all how did that transition happen and all how did that transition happen and all how did that transition happen there was no plan it was it was little there was no plan it was it was little there was no plan it was it was little by little stepbystep shots in the dark by little stepbystep shots in the dark by little stepbystep shots in the dark with with with nothing I can't show you a vision from 5 nothing I can't show you a vision from 5 nothing I can't show you a vision from 5 years ago 10 years ago right uh I years ago 10 years ago right uh I years ago 10 years ago right uh I realized after I burned out I need a realized after I burned out I need a realized after I burned out I need a hobby because all I did was work so I hobby because all I did was work so I hobby because all I did was work so I thought I enjoy writing I'm a thought I enjoy writing I'm a thought I enjoy writing I'm a communicator so I started a Blog and I communicator so I started a Blog and I communicator so I started a Blog and I blogged off and on for a little while blogged off and on for a little while blogged off and on for a little while and then I had a friend tap me on the and then I had a friend tap me on the and then I had a friend tap me on the shoulder to write a book so I wrote a shoulder to write a book so I wrote a shoulder to write a book so I wrote a book and then I thought oh I'd be fun to book and then I thought oh I'd be fun to book and then I thought oh I'd be fun to do a solo book and then I was really do a solo book and then I was really do a solo book and then I was really getting into listening to podcast and I getting into listening to podcast and I getting into listening to podcast and I thought well maybe I'll do a podcast one thought well maybe I'll do a podcast one thought well maybe I'll do a podcast one day so I launched that 10 years ago but day so I launched that 10 years ago but day so I launched that 10 years ago but I was still working full-time at the I was still working full-time at the I was still working full-time at the church and then I just felt like okay my church and then I just felt like okay my church and then I just felt like okay my season is coming to an end here at the season is coming to an end here at the season is coming to an end here at the church I had a successor he done an

church I had a successor he done an church I had a successor he done an incredible job how old were you then I incredible job how old were you then I incredible job how old were you then I was 49 okay yeah when I started to feel was 49 okay yeah when I started to feel was 49 okay yeah when I started to feel this stuff and I handed things over to this stuff and I handed things over to this stuff and I handed things over to jefff when I was 15 partly because you jefff when I was 15 partly because you jefff when I was 15 partly because you started to be passionate about these started to be passionate about these started to be passionate about these other things which this is kind of what other things which this is kind of what other things which this is kind of what happens that was in the it was happens that was in the it was happens that was in the it was 90% I think I'm done and 10% passion 90% I think I'm done and 10% passion 90% I think I'm done and 10% passion about other things the story often get about other things the story often get about other things the story often get told it's 90% passionate about other told it's 90% passionate about other told it's 90% passionate about other things it was like 10% that 90% like things it was like 10% that 90% like things it was like 10% that 90% like think my season's coming to an end I think my season's coming to an end I think my season's coming to an end I went a little bit early because I was went a little bit early because I was went a little bit early because I was turning 50 Jeff was turning 40 he's a turning 50 Jeff was turning 40 he's a turning 50 Jeff was turning 40 he's a decade younger than me and I thought if decade younger than me and I thought if decade younger than me and I thought if I stay five more years I don't know I stay five more years I don't know I stay five more years I don't know he'll be around to take over the Reigns he'll be around to take over the Reigns he'll be around to take over the Reigns like people don't wait forever right and like people don't wait forever right and like people don't wait forever right and so I thought this is a good time we had so I thought this is a good time we had so I thought this is a good time we had momentum we had margin in the church momentum we had margin in the church momentum we had margin in the church it's like here you go so after period it's like here you go so after period it's like here you go so after period discernment we did that but you know discernment we did that but you know discernment we did that but you know there was no plan I stayed on teaching there was no plan I stayed on teaching there was no plan I stayed on teaching for years yeah and took a pay cut to do for years yeah and took a pay cut to do for years yeah and took a pay cut to do that not a huge one but like meaningful that not a huge one but like meaningful that not a huge one but like meaningful like we were putting two kids through like we were putting two kids through like we were putting two kids through school we definitely noticed the pay school we definitely noticed the pay school we definitely noticed the pay reduction and I didn't have a financial reduction and I didn't have a financial reduction and I didn't have a financial plan just Faith yeah and then so good plan just Faith yeah and then so good plan just Faith yeah and then so good you know just put one foot in front of you know just put one foot in front of you know just put one foot in front of the other and started speaking a little the other and started speaking a little the other and started speaking a little bit more because my day-to-day was freed bit more because my day-to-day was freed bit more because my day-to-day was freed up at the church and then I thought we'd up at the church and then I thought we'd up at the church and then I thought we'd do a course so I did my first course we do a course so I did my first course we do a course so I did my first course we were totally experimenting what was your were totally experimenting what was your were totally experimenting what was your course was uh called the high impact course was uh called the high impact course was uh called the high impact leader which became at your best and leader which became at your best and leader which became at your best and then you and I did a preaching course I then you and I did a preaching course I then you and I did a preaching course I added some other courses we did the art added some other courses we did the art added some other courses we did the art of reaching and I'm like oh this course

of reaching and I'm like oh this course of reaching and I'm like oh this course thing works and then a company kind of thing works and then a company kind of thing works and then a company kind of grew out of that yeah so it was it was grew out of that yeah so it was it was grew out of that yeah so it was it was honestly putting one foot in front of honestly putting one foot in front of honestly putting one foot in front of the other curiosity constant the other curiosity constant the other curiosity constant experimentation and not really knowing experimentation and not really knowing experimentation and not really knowing you know a couple of principles no debt you know a couple of principles no debt you know a couple of principles no debt so we didn't take out a loan for any of so we didn't take out a loan for any of so we didn't take out a loan for any of this stuff you know there were times this stuff you know there were times this stuff you know there were times where was like wow if that check doesn't where was like wow if that check doesn't where was like wow if that check doesn't come in I don't know how I'm going to come in I don't know how I'm going to come in I don't know how I'm going to pay this bill wow but we we made it wow pay this bill wow but we we made it wow pay this bill wow but we we made it wow and you know we're very grateful and and you know we're very grateful and and you know we're very grateful and it's so I wake up surprised every day as it's so I wake up surprised every day as it's so I wake up surprised every day as you and I were talking about at dinner you and I were talking about at dinner you and I were talking about at dinner last night grateful like how on Earth last night grateful like how on Earth last night grateful like how on Earth did this become our life like so I did this become our life like so I did this become our life like so I really feel like it's a gift from God really feel like it's a gift from God really feel like it's a gift from God it's to be stewarded uh I'm responsible it's to be stewarded uh I'm responsible it's to be stewarded uh I'm responsible for it I'll give an answer for it one for it I'll give an answer for it one for it I'll give an answer for it one day okay so that's beautiful so that's day okay so that's beautiful so that's day okay so that's beautiful so that's that's high level stuff uh that's high level stuff uh that's high level stuff uh that I mean I look at you and I go how that I mean I look at you and I go how that I mean I look at you and I go how you got here were a lot of smart you got here were a lot of smart you got here were a lot of smart decisions though and a lot of hard work decisions though and a lot of hard work decisions though and a lot of hard work yeah yeah yeah so what were a few of those smart so what were a few of those smart so what were a few of those smart decisions if someone's sitting there decisions if someone's sitting there decisions if someone's sitting there going man like not everyone starts a going man like not everyone starts a going man like not everyone starts a podcast from his basement in the middle podcast from his basement in the middle podcast from his basement in the middle of nowhere Canada and becomes a of nowhere Canada and becomes a of nowhere Canada and becomes a worldwide I mean you're you were worldwide I mean you're you were worldwide I mean you're you were speaking at you know the alpha speaking at you know the alpha speaking at you know the alpha conference last week mhm obviously conference last week mhm obviously conference last week mhm obviously you've spoke you know you've spoken at you've spoke you know you've spoken at you've spoke you know you've spoken at all the everyone know you all the everyone know you all the everyone know you know you there's some strategic know you there's some strategic know you there's some strategic decisions you made along the way what decisions you made along the way what decisions you made along the way what what were those if you were to one of what were those if you were to one of what were those if you were to one of the first ones was don't worry about the the first ones was don't worry about the the first ones was don't worry about the money worry about the quality of the

money worry about the quality of the money worry about the quality of the product and how you serve your audience product and how you serve your audience product and how you serve your audience that's that's great I was half blogging that's that's great I was half blogging that's that's great I was half blogging for four or five years and then in 2012 for four or five years and then in 2012 for four or five years and then in 2012 I'm like double down go serve leaders I'm like double down go serve leaders I'm like double down go serve leaders and write really good stuff and it blew and write really good stuff and it blew and write really good stuff and it blew up my email list started to grow the up my email list started to grow the up my email list started to grow the blog traffic like 10x in a year kind of blog traffic like 10x in a year kind of blog traffic like 10x in a year kind of thing but and then I had entrepreneurs thing but and then I had entrepreneurs thing but and then I had entrepreneurs in my ear friends going got to monetize in my ear friends going got to monetize in my ear friends going got to monetize this got to mon do you know how much this got to mon do you know how much this got to mon do you know how much this is worth I'm like I'm not worried this is worth I'm like I'm not worried this is worth I'm like I'm not worried about that because my brand is trust and about that because my brand is trust and about that because my brand is trust and what I want to do is I want to build a what I want to do is I want to build a what I want to do is I want to build a relationship with leaders I want to relationship with leaders I want to relationship with leaders I want to spend time with leaders and you know spend time with leaders and you know spend time with leaders and you know that's what I want to do and I said if I that's what I want to do and I said if I that's what I want to do and I said if I do that right the money will take care do that right the money will take care do that right the money will take care of itself I didn't even take advertisers of itself I didn't even take advertisers of itself I didn't even take advertisers on the podcast for a couple of years I on the podcast for a couple of years I on the podcast for a couple of years I had a strategic partnership with an had a strategic partnership with an had a strategic partnership with an organization in Atlanta right they organization in Atlanta right they organization in Atlanta right they underwrote some of the cost in exchange underwrote some of the cost in exchange underwrote some of the cost in exchange for some other things Etc right and so for some other things Etc right and so for some other things Etc right and so that was fine I bought them out a number that was fine I bought them out a number that was fine I bought them out a number of years ago but like it was like don't of years ago but like it was like don't of years ago but like it was like don't put the money first put and don't put put the money first put and don't put put the money first put and don't put the size of the platform first obviously the size of the platform first obviously the size of the platform first obviously very motivational for me yeah yeah of very motivational for me yeah yeah of very motivational for me yeah yeah of course but you know don't put the size course but you know don't put the size course but you know don't put the size of the platform first put the quality of of the platform first put the quality of of the platform first put the quality of what you're doing and your audience what you're doing and your audience what you're doing and your audience first God first obviously but you know first God first obviously but you know first God first obviously but you know second quality third audience and that second quality third audience and that second quality third audience and that really helped another thing was don't really helped another thing was don't really helped another thing was don't get into DB and that that can make you get into DB and that that can make you get into DB and that that can make you make terrible decisions and I didn't make terrible decisions and I didn't make terrible decisions and I didn't need to I had a paycheck I was still need to I had a paycheck I was still need to I had a paycheck I was still being paid as a teaching pastor and

being paid as a teaching pastor and being paid as a teaching pastor and people you know they would say to me people you know they would say to me people you know they would say to me monetize this and I'm like well yeah monetize this and I'm like well yeah monetize this and I'm like well yeah maybe one day down the road we'll take maybe one day down the road we'll take maybe one day down the road we'll take sponsors and we'll figure out the sponsors and we'll figure out the sponsors and we'll figure out the financial model but I'm like I make financial model but I'm like I make financial model but I'm like I make money at a church like I'm paid not money at a church like I'm paid not money at a church like I'm paid not greatly but decently greatly but decently greatly but decently what uh I'm able to the bills we're able what uh I'm able to the bills we're able what uh I'm able to the bills we're able to put our KS through school CU we saved to put our KS through school CU we saved to put our KS through school CU we saved I'm not going to take that money now I'm I'm not going to take that money now I'm I'm not going to take that money now I'm going to worry about that later and then going to worry about that later and then going to worry about that later and then once we got to figuring out the once we got to figuring out the once we got to figuring out the monetization it was easy and it gave me monetization it was easy and it gave me monetization it was easy and it gave me the power to say no because we had lots the power to say no because we had lots the power to say no because we had lots of people lining up right and we tried of people lining up right and we tried of people lining up right and we tried one or two partners in the beginning and one or two partners in the beginning and one or two partners in the beginning and then listeners had bad experiences and then listeners had bad experiences and then listeners had bad experiences and I'm like well you're done but I wasn't I'm like well you're done but I wasn't I'm like well you're done but I wasn't relying on the money so the tail didn't relying on the money so the tail didn't relying on the money so the tail didn't Wag the Dog so that was an important Wag the Dog so that was an important Wag the Dog so that was an important decision uh another one we've already decision uh another one we've already decision uh another one we've already covered like when it came to the podcast covered like when it came to the podcast covered like when it came to the podcast and it came to the business model I'm and it came to the business model I'm and it came to the business model I'm not the gotcha guy I'm not a like you not the gotcha guy I'm not a like you not the gotcha guy I'm not a like you know a great way to grow your traffic know a great way to grow your traffic know a great way to grow your traffic whether that's video audio whatever whether that's video audio whatever whether that's video audio whatever you're doing Scandal Scandal yeah it's you're doing Scandal Scandal yeah it's you're doing Scandal Scandal yeah it's like here's what fill-in the blank mega like here's what fill-in the blank mega like here's what fill-in the blank mega church pastor did today and why you church pastor did today and why you church pastor did today and why you should unfollow them yeah U number One should unfollow them yeah U number One should unfollow them yeah U number One never written that headline never will never written that headline never will never written that headline never will but I can guarantee that would be a ton but I can guarantee that would be a ton but I can guarantee that would be a ton of traffic yeah but you got to think is of traffic yeah but you got to think is of traffic yeah but you got to think is that the kind of traffic you want right that the kind of traffic you want right that the kind of traffic you want right because those are all the people who because those are all the people who because those are all the people who want people to fail I want to find the want people to fail I want to find the want people to fail I want to find the good people on the internet believe it good people on the internet believe it good people on the internet believe it or not Mark there's a lot of good people or not Mark there's a lot of good people or not Mark there's a lot of good people on the internet i% like great people so on the internet i% like great people so on the internet i% like great people so those are some of the decisions great I those are some of the decisions great I those are some of the decisions great I love it I love it um you also love it I love it um you also love it I love it um you also strategically uh in this and this is a

strategically uh in this and this is a strategically uh in this and this is a genius and and sometimes looked over by genius and and sometimes looked over by genius and and sometimes looked over by Young Young Young leaders um you you built like a lot of leaders um you you built like a lot of leaders um you you built like a lot of great relationships strategic great relationships strategic great relationships strategic relationships talk about that like you relationships talk about that like you relationships talk about that like you don't you know you didn't just like don't you know you didn't just like don't you know you didn't just like appear in the Atlanta world or the North appear in the Atlanta world or the North appear in the Atlanta world or the North Point world or the orange world or Point world or the orange world or Point world or the orange world or whatever you built those whatever you built those whatever you built those relationships strategically and they relationships strategically and they relationships strategically and they served you very well and and I think served you very well and and I think served you very well and and I think there are a lot of young leaders I was there are a lot of young leaders I was there are a lot of young leaders I was one of them not not that I was one of them not not that I was one of them not not that I was maliciously not building relationships maliciously not building relationships maliciously not building relationships but I was like so honed in on what I was but I was like so honed in on what I was but I was like so honed in on what I was doing I'm just you know head down doing I'm just you know head down doing I'm just you know head down building the church it took other people building the church it took other people building the church it took other people to go hey I think you should build a to go hey I think you should build a to go hey I think you should build a relationship with so and so I think you relationship with so and so I think you relationship with so and so I think you should go meet Larry Osborne I think you should go meet Larry Osborne I think you should go meet Larry Osborne I think you should and it was like okay I guess I'll should and it was like okay I guess I'll should and it was like okay I guess I'll get up for my desk and go meet Larry get up for my desk and go meet Larry get up for my desk and go meet Larry osbor and then that relationship changed osbor and then that relationship changed osbor and then that relationship changed my life because it introduced me to this my life because it introduced me to this my life because it introduced me to this and introduced me to Ray and in those and introduced me to Ray and in those and introduced me to Ray and in those those are huge and they're sometimes those are huge and they're sometimes those are huge and they're sometimes undervalued uh even our relationship it undervalued uh even our relationship it undervalued uh even our relationship it was me reaching out to you on Twitter on was me reaching out to you on Twitter on was me reaching out to you on Twitter on DM you on Twitter before Twitter even DM you on Twitter before Twitter even DM you on Twitter before Twitter even existed and said hey we're two leaders existed and said hey we're two leaders existed and said hey we're two leaders in Canada we should each other and that in Canada we should each other and that in Canada we should each other and that relationship sparked this thing talk relationship sparked this thing talk relationship sparked this thing talk about why did you like what was the about why did you like what was the about why did you like what was the thinking there like here you are the thinking there like here you are the thinking there like here you are the middle of nowhere and you make this middle of nowhere and you make this middle of nowhere and you make this strategic decision connection to this strategic decision connection to this strategic decision connection to this yeah well-known leader Andy sanley and yeah well-known leader Andy sanley and yeah well-known leader Andy sanley and this church and all that was that was a

this church and all that was that was a this church and all that was that was a very intelligent thing that you did I very intelligent thing that you did I very intelligent thing that you did I mean he was genius well and it was a lot mean he was genius well and it was a lot mean he was genius well and it was a lot way beyond my control and there's so way beyond my control and there's so way beyond my control and there's so much Providence in that I mean part of much Providence in that I mean part of much Providence in that I mean part of that because of the isolation a being that because of the isolation a being that because of the isolation a being here in Oro north of Toronto where I here in Oro north of Toronto where I here in Oro north of Toronto where I I've lived for almost 30 years yeah um I've lived for almost 30 years yeah um I've lived for almost 30 years yeah um my friend was books like I was reading my friend was books like I was reading my friend was books like I was reading Rick Warren never thought I would meet Rick Warren never thought I would meet Rick Warren never thought I would meet Rick Warren let alone right interview Rick Warren let alone right interview Rick Warren let alone right interview him that kind of thing like reading Tim him that kind of thing like reading Tim him that kind of thing like reading Tim Keller no idea I would ever interview Keller no idea I would ever interview Keller no idea I would ever interview Tim Keller meet him so it was like a Tim Keller meet him so it was like a Tim Keller meet him so it was like a hunger for leaders and going to the hunger for leaders and going to the hunger for leaders and going to the conferences jumping on a plane and then conferences jumping on a plane and then conferences jumping on a plane and then sitting in the back row and taking notes sitting in the back row and taking notes sitting in the back row and taking notes of course and then you know I met a guy of course and then you know I met a guy of course and then you know I met a guy that I had speak at a conference who that I had speak at a conference who that I had speak at a conference who knew Andy Stanley and I tried to get knew Andy Stanley and I tried to get knew Andy Stanley and I tried to get Andy and Andy wasn't available I was Andy and Andy wasn't available I was Andy and Andy wasn't available I was doing a conference here in Canada but doing a conference here in Canada but doing a conference here in Canada but then he said oh you should meet Andy so then he said oh you should meet Andy so then he said oh you should meet Andy so literally a year later I'm meeting Andy literally a year later I'm meeting Andy literally a year later I'm meeting Andy Stanley and then I'm in a boardroom with Stanley and then I'm in a boardroom with Stanley and then I'm in a boardroom with him and I was there and this is this is him and I was there and this is this is him and I was there and this is this is really important because you know I have really important because you know I have really important because you know I have a networker in me too where it's like a networker in me too where it's like a networker in me too where it's like hey you should pay attention to me and hey you should pay attention to me and hey you should pay attention to me and um like okay shut that voice up and just um like okay shut that voice up and just um like okay shut that voice up and just be a student be humble be grateful to be be a student be humble be grateful to be be a student be humble be grateful to be there take notes ask questions and then there take notes ask questions and then there take notes ask questions and then you know one meeting becomes two becomes you know one meeting becomes two becomes you know one meeting becomes two becomes three becomes a a multi-decade three becomes a a multi-decade three becomes a a multi-decade relationship and you know I started the relationship and you know I started the relationship and you know I started the podcast with just if you look at the podcast with just if you look at the podcast with just if you look at the first 10 15 episodes those are all the first 10 15 episodes those are all the first 10 15 episodes those are all the people I knew it was like Andy was kind

people I knew it was like Andy was kind people I knew it was like Andy was kind enough to be episode number one I had enough to be episode number one I had enough to be episode number one I had some others along the way and I was just some others along the way and I was just some others along the way and I was just really fortunate and then as I built really fortunate and then as I built really fortunate and then as I built that track record I'm told like Craig that track record I'm told like Craig that track record I'm told like Craig relle has said this I think he said it relle has said this I think he said it relle has said this I think he said it publicly and I don't think he'd mind if publicly and I don't think he'd mind if publicly and I don't think he'd mind if I say it but he said you were adding so I say it but he said you were adding so I say it but he said you were adding so much value to my life through what you much value to my life through what you much value to my life through what you wrote um that I think he reached out to wrote um that I think he reached out to wrote um that I think he reached out to me right I think it was Craig who me right I think it was Craig who me right I think it was Craig who reached out to me yeah and you know I'm reached out to me yeah and you know I'm reached out to me yeah and you know I'm like oh my gosh Craig relle I've been like oh my gosh Craig relle I've been like oh my gosh Craig relle I've been following him for 10 years like are you following him for 10 years like are you following him for 10 years like are you kidding me and we become really good kidding me and we become really good kidding me and we become really good friends so I think it's a question of of friends so I think it's a question of of friends so I think it's a question of of trying to add value and I always had a trying to add value and I always had a trying to add value and I always had a dual Target for the the stuff I write dual Target for the the stuff I write dual Target for the the stuff I write one was the average pastor of a church one was the average pastor of a church one was the average pastor of a church of 150 the second was Andy Stanley of 150 the second was Andy Stanley of 150 the second was Andy Stanley craiger shell it's like I want this to craiger shell it's like I want this to craiger shell it's like I want this to work for both audiences great and I work for both audiences great and I work for both audiences great and I think you know hasn't all but for a lot think you know hasn't all but for a lot think you know hasn't all but for a lot of it it really has and so I think in of it it really has and so I think in of it it really has and so I think in and then and then honestly Providence and then and then honestly Providence and then and then honestly Providence Good Fortune Grace like I I could not Good Fortune Grace like I I could not Good Fortune Grace like I I could not have been in all of the right places at have been in all of the right places at have been in all of the right places at the right time and I'm not that smart the right time and I'm not that smart the right time and I'm not that smart and I'm not that charming and God's and I'm not that charming and God's and I'm not that charming and God's Grace has been all over this so I feel Grace has been all over this so I feel Grace has been all over this so I feel very very fortunate well I think you're very very fortunate well I think you're very very fortunate well I think you're very smart and Charming um but uh that's very smart and Charming um but uh that's very smart and Charming um but uh that's another um so we were talking a little another um so we were talking a little another um so we were talking a little bit uh yesterday about what I didn't bit uh yesterday about what I didn't bit uh yesterday about what I didn't really get your answers though so I'll really get your answers though so I'll really get your answers though so I'll be interested so we were talking AI we be interested so we were talking AI we be interested so we were talking AI we were talking the future of podcasting were talking the future of podcasting were talking the future of podcasting we're talking about you know what's

we're talking about you know what's we're talking about you know what's what's the future look like so what are what's the future look like so what are what's the future look like so what are your some of your thoughts on the future your some of your thoughts on the future your some of your thoughts on the future of where this medium is going I mean of where this medium is going I mean of where this medium is going I mean you've doing this now for 10 years you've doing this now for 10 years you've doing this now for 10 years you've grown a a global platform over it you've grown a a global platform over it you've grown a a global platform over it it's it's obviously taken off as this it's it's obviously taken off as this it's it's obviously taken off as this long long long form you know we got the Joe rogans of form you know we got the Joe rogans of form you know we got the Joe rogans of the world sitting there talking to the world sitting there talking to the world sitting there talking to people for four hours about nothing and people for four hours about nothing and people for four hours about nothing and it's the most listened to pod on the it's the most listened to pod on the it's the most listened to pod on the internet uh some of these mediums are internet uh some of these mediums are internet uh some of these mediums are being rethought blown up you know a lot being rethought blown up you know a lot being rethought blown up you know a lot of these newscasters that we used to of these newscasters that we used to of these newscasters that we used to watch on these national news news watch on these national news news watch on these national news news programs have been fired and they just programs have been fired and they just programs have been fired and they just start their own shows in their basement start their own shows in their basement start their own shows in their basement talking the thing and that they have the talking the thing and that they have the talking the thing and that they have the audience uh but specifically I mean audience uh but specifically I mean audience uh but specifically I mean that's that's media in general but what that's that's media in general but what that's that's media in general but what are your thoughts about this like are your thoughts about this like are your thoughts about this like podcasting the future where where are we podcasting the future where where are we podcasting the future where where are we going I'm glad I got it in 2014 it's not going I'm glad I got it in 2014 it's not going I'm glad I got it in 2014 it's not impossible now yeah but it's much harder impossible now yeah but it's much harder impossible now yeah but it's much harder and you look at the show uh one of one and you look at the show uh one of one and you look at the show uh one of one of the decisions I made early on and I'm of the decisions I made early on and I'm of the decisions I made early on and I'm I'm talking about the past but I think I'm talking about the past but I think I'm talking about the past but I think it has implication for the future is I it has implication for the future is I it has implication for the future is I didn't want it to cost a lot of money I didn't want it to cost a lot of money I didn't want it to cost a lot of money I didn't want it to be super difficult didn't want it to be super difficult didn't want it to be super difficult yeah to do so it needed to fit into my yeah to do so it needed to fit into my yeah to do so it needed to fit into my lifestyle so in the early days we did lifestyle so in the early days we did lifestyle so in the early days we did video but we didn't post it because it video but we didn't post it because it video but we didn't post it because it was 2014 started posting video maybe was 2014 started posting video maybe was 2014 started posting video maybe five years ago or so four I forget yeah five years ago or so four I forget yeah five years ago or so four I forget yeah um but it was just a really good audio

um but it was just a really good audio um but it was just a really good audio recording yeah and it was easy and recording yeah and it was easy and recording yeah and it was easy and literally I launched the podcast for literally I launched the podcast for literally I launched the podcast for $1,000 doll it was a good microphone and $1,000 doll it was a good microphone and $1,000 doll it was a good microphone and I'm still recording in garage band man I'm still recording in garage band man I'm still recording in garage band man that's free software free garage band we that's free software free garage band we that's free software free garage band we were talking about that earlier this were talking about that earlier this were talking about that earlier this episode brought to you by garage garage episode brought to you by garage garage episode brought to you by garage garage band TM um so it was very it was it was band TM um so it was very it was it was band TM um so it was very it was it was very easy to do because if it if it very easy to do because if it if it very easy to do because if it if it became this all the time like it's super became this all the time like it's super became this all the time like it's super easy you're in town for a few days easy you're in town for a few days easy you're in town for a few days you're staying at our place really easy you're staying at our place really easy you're staying at our place really easy just to reconfigure the studio and shoot just to reconfigure the studio and shoot just to reconfigure the studio and shoot this so it's not that hard but if I had this so it's not that hard but if I had this so it's not that hard but if I had to like fly guess in all the time or fly to like fly guess in all the time or fly to like fly guess in all the time or fly all of a sudden the economics stop all of a sudden the economics stop all of a sudden the economics stop working losing money um it just doesn't working losing money um it just doesn't working losing money um it just doesn't work so it was like easy to reproduce work so it was like easy to reproduce work so it was like easy to reproduce and that's why I went largely with an and that's why I went largely with an and that's why I went largely with an interview format we're mixing that up interview format we're mixing that up interview format we're mixing that up right now on my show I'm going to do right now on my show I'm going to do right now on my show I'm going to do some solo episodes because I've got the some solo episodes because I've got the some solo episodes because I've got the bandwidth but I'm like this has got to bandwidth but I'm like this has got to bandwidth but I'm like this has got to fit into a box yes and it has to be fit into a box yes and it has to be fit into a box yes and it has to be technologically simple so that it works technologically simple so that it works technologically simple so that it works 99 times out of 100 and I think I've 99 times out of 100 and I think I've 99 times out of 100 and I think I've only lost one out of 600 episodes like only lost one out of 600 episodes like only lost one out of 600 episodes like because of technical problems right and because of technical problems right and because of technical problems right and I have a very simple Road kit so when I I have a very simple Road kit so when I I have a very simple Road kit so when I do it on the road it's $79 microphones do it on the road it's $79 microphones do it on the road it's $79 microphones that most people can't tell the that most people can't tell the that most people can't tell the difference between this $400 microphone difference between this $400 microphone difference between this $400 microphone and a $79 you have the carry yours is and a $79 you have the carry yours is and a $79 you have the carry yours is 400 m mine's 100 mine's 120 cuz it 400 m mine's 100 mine's 120 cuz it 400 m mine's 100 mine's 120 cuz it doesn't have the carry new off notice I doesn't have the carry new off notice I doesn't have the carry new off notice I took the better mic let me no but but took the better mic let me no but but took the better mic let me no but but I'm saying all that to say this you look I'm saying all that to say this you look I'm saying all that to say this you look at podcasting now yeah it's basically TV at podcasting now yeah it's basically TV at podcasting now yeah it's basically TV studios I heard a great conversation

studios I heard a great conversation studios I heard a great conversation with Cal Newport who's been a guest on with Cal Newport who's been a guest on with Cal Newport who's been a guest on my show Tim Ferris hopefully a future my show Tim Ferris hopefully a future my show Tim Ferris hopefully a future guest on my show guest on my show guest on my show and they were saying that basically and they were saying that basically and they were saying that basically everyone now is pivoting to TV shows everyone now is pivoting to TV shows everyone now is pivoting to TV shows what used to be TV you got Rogan he's what used to be TV you got Rogan he's what used to be TV you got Rogan he's got millions of views he's got a studio got millions of views he's got a studio got millions of views he's got a studio you got to fly in Diary of a CEO like a you got to fly in Diary of a CEO like a you got to fly in Diary of a CEO like a lot of these things have basically lot of these things have basically lot of these things have basically become huge Productions with hundreds of become huge Productions with hundreds of become huge Productions with hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars of thousands or millions of dollars of thousands or millions of dollars of built-in cost to it yeah and the built-in cost to it yeah and the built-in cost to it yeah and the question is is this what I want to sign question is is this what I want to sign question is is this what I want to sign up for in the future right so Tim Ferris up for in the future right so Tim Ferris up for in the future right so Tim Ferris has been talking about zigging when has been talking about zigging when has been talking about zigging when everyone else is zagging and and he's everyone else is zagging and and he's everyone else is zagging and and he's saying I want to keep this minimalist saying I want to keep this minimalist saying I want to keep this minimalist yeah like he says I might not even do yeah like he says I might not even do yeah like he says I might not even do video so what I'm thinking about is what video so what I'm thinking about is what video so what I'm thinking about is what is the essence of what I bring to my is the essence of what I bring to my is the essence of what I bring to my audience yes pay attention to where the audience yes pay attention to where the audience yes pay attention to where the industry is going but if you want to industry is going but if you want to industry is going but if you want to sign up for that you have to sign up for sign up for that you have to sign up for sign up for that you have to sign up for all of that yeah and then one of the all of that yeah and then one of the all of that yeah and then one of the keys to success you haven't asked me keys to success you haven't asked me keys to success you haven't asked me this question but I get asked it a lot this question but I get asked it a lot this question but I get asked it a lot of times why do you think your podcast of times why do you think your podcast of times why do you think your podcast took off there's a lot of reasons took off there's a lot of reasons took off there's a lot of reasons including a lot of Grace but one of them including a lot of Grace but one of them including a lot of Grace but one of them is we've never missed a Tuesday we have is we've never missed a Tuesday we have is we've never missed a Tuesday we have shipped for 10 years on a Tuesday every shipped for 10 years on a Tuesday every shipped for 10 years on a Tuesday every Tuesday in the early days that was some Tuesday in the early days that was some Tuesday in the early days that was some 3 o'clock in the morning phone calls and 3 o'clock in the morning phone calls and 3 o'clock in the morning phone calls and this isn't working and that isn't this isn't working and that isn't this isn't working and that isn't working but now it's pretty automated working but now it's pretty automated working but now it's pretty automated and you know it sort of runs on and you know it sort of runs on and you know it sort of runs on autopilot but a lot of people they start autopilot but a lot of people they start autopilot but a lot of people they start early wow they go really hard and then early wow they go really hard and then early wow they go really hard and then they're like oh I missed a week and then they're like oh I missed a week and then they're like oh I missed a week and then they missed a month and then all of a they missed a month and then all of a they missed a month and then all of a sudden their show sputters and dies so sudden their show sputters and dies so sudden their show sputters and dies so we haven't missed a Tuesday and part of

we haven't missed a Tuesday and part of we haven't missed a Tuesday and part of the reason we don't miss it is these the reason we don't miss it is these the reason we don't miss it is these episodes are easy to tape they're episodes are easy to tape they're episodes are easy to tape they're relatively low production compared to relatively low production compared to relatively low production compared to what we could be doing and it's easily what we could be doing and it's easily what we could be doing and it's easily reproducible so I want to keep that reproducible so I want to keep that reproducible so I want to keep that going because the value is not in a going because the value is not in a going because the value is not in a million dollar set and a billion dollars million dollar set and a billion dollars million dollar set and a billion dollars worth of cameras well especially in the worth of cameras well especially in the worth of cameras well especially in the day and age of Tik Tock and these day and age of Tik Tock and these day and age of Tik Tock and these Instagram reels and people are doing raw Instagram reels and people are doing raw Instagram reels and people are doing raw what I call you know gorilla style like what I call you know gorilla style like what I call you know gorilla style like I'm you know in the film world I was I'm you know in the film world I was I'm you know in the film world I was sitting I was going to bed last night sitting I was going to bed last night sitting I was going to bed last night watching a documentary on editing movies watching a documentary on editing movies watching a documentary on editing movies and it's just it's just it's just and it's just it's just it's just and it's just it's just it's just interviews on editors and then I was interviews on editors and then I was interviews on editors and then I was watching a documentary last night again watching a documentary last night again watching a documentary last night again on um the the 75 cuts that uh Alfred on um the the 75 cuts that uh Alfred on um the the 75 cuts that uh Alfred Hitchcock made in Psycho in just the the Hitchcock made in Psycho in just the the Hitchcock made in Psycho in just the the shower scene that that entertains me for shower scene that that entertains me for shower scene that that entertains me for two straight hours so it's like but the two straight hours so it's like but the two straight hours so it's like but the point of that is is that there's people point of that is is that there's people point of that is is that there's people going yeah I don't I just it's raw going yeah I don't I just it's raw going yeah I don't I just it's raw gorilla style it doesn't need to be gorilla style it doesn't need to be gorilla style it doesn't need to be super produced it just is what it is and super produced it just is what it is and super produced it just is what it is and you're saying and that potentially is you're saying and that potentially is you're saying and that potentially is the future well as well as even though the future well as well as even though the future well as well as even though some of these big guys are doing high some of these big guys are doing high some of these big guys are doing high production for the Regular Joe you're production for the Regular Joe you're production for the Regular Joe you're saying don't let that hold you up well saying don't let that hold you up well saying don't let that hold you up well yeah and what I'm saying is you know yeah and what I'm saying is you know yeah and what I'm saying is you know what is the unique value proposition of what is the unique value proposition of what is the unique value proposition of my podcast in my mind is I'm bringing my podcast in my mind is I'm bringing my podcast in my mind is I'm bringing you the you the you the conversations that you and I would have conversations that you and I would have conversations that you and I would have at dinner yes and you've been at dinner

at dinner yes and you've been at dinner at dinner yes and you've been at dinner with me so many times you know this is with me so many times you know this is with me so many times you know this is what we talk about and lots of fun stuff what we talk about and lots of fun stuff what we talk about and lots of fun stuff this is what we talk about when I've got this is what we talk about when I've got this is what we talk about when I've got you know celle or I've got William Yuri you know celle or I've got William Yuri you know celle or I've got William Yuri or I've gotal Newport or I've got Simon or I've gotal Newport or I've got Simon or I've gotal Newport or I've got Simon syn on my show I want to ask him the syn on my show I want to ask him the syn on my show I want to ask him the questions I want to ask them the questions I want to ask them the questions I want to ask them the questions questions questions that every listener wishes they could that every listener wishes they could that every listener wishes they could ask them and so I'm sort of a proxy for ask them and so I'm sort of a proxy for ask them and so I'm sort of a proxy for them and I also want to ask them you them and I also want to ask them you them and I also want to ask them you know particularly atheists I had Scott know particularly atheists I had Scott know particularly atheists I had Scott Galloway on recently I want to ask Galloway on recently I want to ask Galloway on recently I want to ask atheists about um what they think about atheists about um what they think about atheists about um what they think about the Christian faith and why should be the Christian faith and why should be the Christian faith and why should be doing differently or I had terly Cobble doing differently or I had terly Cobble doing differently or I had terly Cobble on right well give me the whole on right well give me the whole on right well give me the whole backstory of how you built this huge backstory of how you built this huge backstory of how you built this huge brand with 350 million downloads yeah brand with 350 million downloads yeah brand with 350 million downloads yeah you know so I'm thinking through on you know so I'm thinking through on you know so I'm thinking through on behalf of my audience and so what what behalf of my audience and so what what behalf of my audience and so what what happens with that the value isn't like happens with that the value isn't like happens with that the value isn't like oh yeah we repainted the studio you know oh yeah we repainted the studio you know oh yeah we repainted the studio you know and all that stuff but the value isn't and all that stuff but the value isn't and all that stuff but the value isn't in the paint the value is in I'm in the paint the value is in I'm in the paint the value is in I'm bringing the backstory okay you brought bringing the backstory okay you brought bringing the backstory okay you brought up you brought up the uh the Keller up you brought up the uh the Keller up you brought up the uh the Keller interview yeah a little bit ago and so interview yeah a little bit ago and so interview yeah a little bit ago and so that became you know lot lots of views that became you know lot lots of views that became you know lot lots of views lots of people talking about the it was lots of people talking about the it was lots of people talking about the it was a great interview so so uh what do what a great interview so so uh what do what a great interview so so uh what do what are your like top two or three are your like top two or three are your like top two or three interviews you've done and you go that interviews you've done and you go that interviews you've done and you go that was great either you were great or I was great either you were great or I was great either you were great or I mean I know you're more of the Larry mean I know you're more of the Larry mean I know you're more of the Larry King like let the let the guest let the

King like let the let the guest let the King like let the let the guest let the guest talk I am a Larry King fan that guest talk I am a Larry King fan that guest talk I am a Larry King fan that way and Larry King is one of the great way and Larry King is one of the great way and Larry King is one of the great interviewers of all time I mean he's the interviewers of all time I mean he's the interviewers of all time I mean he's the guy I assume yall study um but it's like guy I assume yall study um but it's like guy I assume yall study um but it's like yeah going back in your profile what are yeah going back in your profile what are yeah going back in your profile what are those two or three that stand out you're those two or three that stand out you're those two or three that stand out you're like man that I think that one well Tim like man that I think that one well Tim like man that I think that one well Tim Keller definitely near the top of the Keller definitely near the top of the Keller definitely near the top of the list I mean and what was it the list I mean and what was it the list I mean and what was it the privilege of meeting that man he was so privilege of meeting that man he was so privilege of meeting that man he was so formative in my Ministry in my thinking formative in my Ministry in my thinking formative in my Ministry in my thinking I Presbyterian background to me he's I Presbyterian background to me he's I Presbyterian background to me he's he's like you look up Presbyterian in he's like you look up Presbyterian in he's like you look up Presbyterian in the dictionary he's the poster boy he the dictionary he's the poster boy he the dictionary he's the poster boy he should be should be should be we should all be half smart kind of so we should all be half smart kind of so we should all be half smart kind of so that was a thrill I had three that was a thrill I had three that was a thrill I had three opportunities to interview him once uh opportunities to interview him once uh opportunities to interview him once uh in February of 2020 right before in February of 2020 right before in February of 2020 right before lockdown we got into New York and spent lockdown we got into New York and spent lockdown we got into New York and spent a couple hours with him it was a couple hours with him it was a couple hours with him it was incredible yeah so that was great we we incredible yeah so that was great we we incredible yeah so that was great we we miss Tim Keller another one that uh miss Tim Keller another one that uh miss Tim Keller another one that uh actually you you'll have a connection to actually you you'll have a connection to actually you you'll have a connection to this because I remember your reaction to this because I remember your reaction to this because I remember your reaction to it when I had Gordon McDonald on the it when I had Gordon McDonald on the it when I had Gordon McDonald on the first time so good and he talked about I first time so good and he talked about I first time so good and he talked about I listened to that podcast and I cried listened to that podcast and I cried listened to that podcast and I cried you did such a genius job of you did such a genius job of you did such a genius job of interviewing this guy and pulling out of interviewing this guy and pulling out of interviewing this guy and pulling out of him for a young leader like me well him for a young leader like me well him for a young leader like me well young I was whatever 38 when I listened young I was whatever 38 when I listened young I was whatever 38 when I listened to it probably uh just the extraction of to it probably uh just the extraction of to it probably uh just the extraction of stuff and I was just oh I cried it wasc stuff and I was just oh I cried it wasc stuff and I was just oh I cried it wasc and I told Gordon that and it was really and I told Gordon that and it was really and I told Gordon that and it was really powerful so that but for our listeners powerful so that but for our listeners powerful so that but for our listeners who who is he and why did that Gordon who who is he and why did that Gordon who who is he and why did that Gordon McDonald wrote a book in the 80s or 90s McDonald wrote a book in the 80s or 90s McDonald wrote a book in the 80s or 90s called ordering your private World he's called ordering your private World he's called ordering your private World he's written many he sold millions of copies written many he sold millions of copies written many he sold millions of copies of that book he had uh a tough period in

of that book he had uh a tough period in of that book he had uh a tough period in his life where he went through a moral his life where he went through a moral his life where he went through a moral failure um it was out of character for failure um it was out of character for failure um it was out of character for him yeah he submitted himself to a him yeah he submitted himself to a him yeah he submitted himself to a restitution process reconciliation restitution process reconciliation restitution process reconciliation process and then he wrote a book called process and then he wrote a book called process and then he wrote a book called rebuilding your broken world out of that rebuilding your broken world out of that rebuilding your broken world out of that which is so good so good and he was like which is so good so good and he was like which is so good so good and he was like top he was like Clinton era advis top he was like Clinton era advis top he was like Clinton era advis spiritual adviser for White House spiritual adviser for White House spiritual adviser for White House presidents yeah anyway sorry so no he he presidents yeah anyway sorry so no he he presidents yeah anyway sorry so no he he um and in his 80s honestly is a role um and in his 80s honestly is a role um and in his 80s honestly is a role model he kept his marriage he and GA are model he kept his marriage he and GA are model he kept his marriage he and GA are deeply in love hope to do one more deeply in love hope to do one more deeply in love hope to do one more interview with him you know he's well interview with him you know he's well interview with him you know he's well into his 80s now so it's getting a into his 80s now so it's getting a into his 80s now so it's getting a little more dicey third one I would say little more dicey third one I would say little more dicey third one I would say is uh John Christ I did a John Christ is uh John Christ I did a John Christ is uh John Christ I did a John Christ interview was great in interview was great in interview was great in 2023 and I wanted to touch on him his 2023 and I wanted to touch on him his 2023 and I wanted to touch on him his moral failure being canceled and moral failure being canceled and moral failure being canceled and everything thought we'd do one or two everything thought we'd do one or two everything thought we'd do one or two questions turned out to be like one of questions turned out to be like one of questions turned out to be like one of the most honest conversations ever on the most honest conversations ever on the most honest conversations ever on the podcast and him self-disclosing the podcast and him self-disclosing the podcast and him self-disclosing self-revealing yeah and I was happy with self-revealing yeah and I was happy with self-revealing yeah and I was happy with one or two questions he went on for an one or two questions he went on for an one or two questions he went on for an hour and it just never stopped about him hour and it just never stopped about him hour and it just never stopped about him saying and this and this and this right saying and this and this and this right saying and this and this and this right so those are a few that really really so those are a few that really really so those are a few that really really com to mind obviously you know there's com to mind obviously you know there's com to mind obviously you know there's there's a bunch of them yeah uh but there's a bunch of them yeah uh but there's a bunch of them yeah uh but those are three that really yeah that's those are three that really yeah that's those are three that really yeah that's really good so okay the future of things really good so okay the future of things really good so okay the future of things um what are one or two things that every um what are one or two things that every um what are one or two things that every young leader I got two parts to this young leader I got two parts to this young leader I got two parts to this young leader listening to this today

young leader listening to this today young leader listening to this today should know as you think about should know as you think about should know as you think about leadership as you think about all the leadership as you think about all the leadership as you think about all the principles young leader upand cominging principles young leader upand cominging principles young leader upand cominging they're going to be in it for the next they're going to be in it for the next they're going to be in it for the next 20 30 years what would Carrie newoff 20 30 years what would Carrie newoff 20 30 years what would Carrie newoff want to say to that I just gave this want to say to that I just gave this want to say to that I just gave this advice to a young leader in the art of advice to a young leader in the art of advice to a young leader in the art of leadership academy today who dm'd me and leadership academy today who dm'd me and leadership academy today who dm'd me and it really took him by surprise he's like it really took him by surprise he's like it really took him by surprise he's like I was hoping you'd tell me to take a I was hoping you'd tell me to take a I was hoping you'd tell me to take a course or something and I'm like just course or something and I'm like just course or something and I'm like just work twice as hard on your character as work twice as hard on your character as work twice as hard on your character as you do on your competency I mean you and you do on your competency I mean you and you do on your competency I mean you and I know this we' talked about this so I know this we' talked about this so I know this we' talked about this so much we've had way too many friends who much we've had way too many friends who much we've had way too many friends who aren't in Ministry today because they've aren't in Ministry today because they've aren't in Ministry today because they've disqualified themselves and you know disqualified themselves and you know disqualified themselves and you know unless I think I'm exempt I'm not exempt unless I think I'm exempt I'm not exempt unless I think I'm exempt I'm not exempt that could happen to me it could happen that could happen to me it could happen that could happen to me it could happen to you and so what I'm what I'm learning to you and so what I'm what I'm learning to you and so what I'm what I'm learning not what I've learned what I'm learning not what I've learned what I'm learning not what I've learned what I'm learning is I have to work twice as hard on my is I have to work twice as hard on my is I have to work twice as hard on my character because I'm going to read the character because I'm going to read the character because I'm going to read the books I'm going to listen to the podcast books I'm going to listen to the podcast books I'm going to listen to the podcast I'm going to go to the conferences I'm I'm going to go to the conferences I'm I'm going to go to the conferences I'm going to sit down with smart people wied going to sit down with smart people wied going to sit down with smart people wied smart people Wicked SM SM a good hunting smart people Wicked SM SM a good hunting smart people Wicked SM SM a good hunting that's a good with hunting reference for that's a good with hunting reference for that's a good with hunting reference for the listeners who have noiz enti scpt the listeners who have noiz enti scpt the listeners who have noiz enti scpt these guys are these listeners are so these guys are these listeners are so these guys are these listeners are so young they don't even know what we're young they don't even know what we're young they don't even know what we're that's what I've realized yeah three that's what I've realized yeah three that's what I've realized yeah three three4 of my movie illustrations are three4 of my movie illustrations are three4 of my movie illustrations are irrelevant to like I one of our one of irrelevant to like I one of our one of irrelevant to like I one of our one of our upand cominging leaders um uh I was our upand cominging leaders um uh I was our upand cominging leaders um uh I was talking to her the other day and I gave talking to her the other day and I gave talking to her the other day and I gave her some reference these people don't her some reference these people don't her some reference these people don't know Carrie these people don't know are know Carrie these people don't know are know Carrie these people don't know are you ready for this okay this is a 20 you ready for this okay this is a 20 you ready for this okay this is a 20 seven-year-old leader in her church and

seven-year-old leader in her church and seven-year-old leader in her church and she's going to take over the universe she's going to take over the universe she's going to take over the universe one day she's amazing her name's Morgan one day she's amazing her name's Morgan one day she's amazing her name's Morgan she's great she's a great preacher great she's great she's a great preacher great she's great she's a great preacher great thinker has a podcast all that stuff thinker has a podcast all that stuff thinker has a podcast all that stuff um I said something about what I don't um I said something about what I don't um I said something about what I don't even know what it was I referenc like a even know what it was I referenc like a even know what it was I referenc like a a Rob Bell thing okay and she's like a Rob Bell thing okay and she's like a Rob Bell thing okay and she's like who's Rob Bell she doesn't even know who who's Rob Bell she doesn't even know who who's Rob Bell she doesn't even know who Rob Bell is I mean this is where we're Rob Bell is I mean this is where we're Rob Bell is I mean this is where we're at wow yeah wow this episode brought to at wow yeah wow this episode brought to at wow yeah wow this episode brought to you by Rob Bell's latest Ministry you by Rob Bell's latest Ministry you by Rob Bell's latest Ministry so she doesn't these they don't know we so she doesn't these they don't know we so she doesn't these they don't know we I mean we've been like the 9s is a I mean we've been like the 9s is a I mean we've been like the 9s is a memory for the emergent Village and all memory for the emergent Village and all memory for the emergent Village and all this she they don't have a clue what this she they don't have a clue what this she they don't have a clue what we're talking about well what about the we're talking about well what about the we're talking about well what about the emerging I don't even know what you're emerging I don't even know what you're emerging I don't even know what you're talking about I mean it's you know so talking about I mean it's you know so talking about I mean it's you know so I'm sitting there giving an illustration I'm sitting there giving an illustration I'm sitting there giving an illustration about Forest Gump's leg braces coming about Forest Gump's leg braces coming about Forest Gump's leg braces coming off and how you got to you know the sin off and how you got to you know the sin off and how you got to you know the sin that so easily entangles and they have that so easily entangles and they have that so easily entangles and they have no idea what I'm saying she thinks no idea what I'm saying she thinks no idea what I'm saying she thinks you're talking about Charlie chapl yeah you're talking about Charlie chapl yeah you're talking about Charlie chapl yeah like who's for what are you talking like who's for what are you talking like who's for what are you talking about anyway sorry we we got off work about anyway sorry we we got off work about anyway sorry we we got off work tce as hard on your character as you do tce as hard on your character as you do tce as hard on your character as you do on your competency I don't know how we on your competency I don't know how we on your competency I don't know how we got there you have this great light I got there you have this great light I got there you have this great light I don't know where you got it you know don't know where you got it you know don't know where you got it you know competency gets you in the room competency gets you in the room competency gets you in the room character keeps you in the room and I character keeps you in the room and I character keeps you in the room and I cite you in every conference that I cite you in every conference that I cite you in every conference that I speak at I cite you with that I don't speak at I cite you with that I don't speak at I cite you with that I don't know if you came up with that or read know if you came up with that or read know if you came up with that or read that it doesn't matter it doesn't matter that it doesn't matter it doesn't matter that it doesn't matter it doesn't matter let's keep it in your Camp it's genius let's keep it in your Camp it's genius let's keep it in your Camp it's genius it's genius TM but no I confidency gets it's genius TM but no I confidency gets it's genius TM but no I confidency gets you in the room character keeps you in you in the room character keeps you in you in the room character keeps you in the room talk about that well because so the room talk about that well because so the room talk about that well because so many of the leaders at my age I'm 59 who many of the leaders at my age I'm 59 who many of the leaders at my age I'm 59 who could have still been in the room

could have still been in the room could have still been in the room smartest of a generation some of that smartest of a generation some of that smartest of a generation some of that like like honestly super intelligent like like honestly super intelligent like like honestly super intelligent knew their stuff in many cases knew knew their stuff in many cases knew knew their stuff in many cases knew their Bible inside out what was it it their Bible inside out what was it it their Bible inside out what was it it was character it was like they were was character it was like they were was character it was like they were jerks and they eventually their boards jerks and they eventually their boards jerks and they eventually their boards fired them they slept with people they fired them they slept with people they fired them they slept with people they weren't married to they took money that weren't married to they took money that weren't married to they took money that didn't belong to them they breached didn't belong to them they breached didn't belong to them they breached trust those are all character issues and trust those are all character issues and trust those are all character issues and you know what like couple books in there you know what like couple books in there you know what like couple books in there on character but for the most part part on character but for the most part part on character but for the most part part no course is going to make you better no course is going to make you better no course is going to make you better that's time on your knees that's time that's time on your knees that's time that's time on your knees that's time confessing your and I always say you confessing your and I always say you confessing your and I always say you know when Paul's talking about this in 1 know when Paul's talking about this in 1 know when Paul's talking about this in 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1 and he's saying Timothy 3 and Titus 1 and he's saying Timothy 3 and Titus 1 and he's saying here's what an elder is here's what an here's what an elder is here's what an here's what an elder is here's what an overseer is here's what a deacon is overseer is here's what a deacon is overseer is here's what a deacon is however your tradition translates all however your tradition translates all however your tradition translates all these words here's what a leader is these words here's what a leader is these words here's what a leader is he in the in the 11 characteristics that he in the in the 11 characteristics that he in the in the 11 characteristics that he gives 10 of the 11 are all character he gives 10 of the 11 are all character he gives 10 of the 11 are all character issues only one is competency able to issues only one is competency able to issues only one is competency able to teach everything else is character teach everything else is character teach everything else is character you're right you're not having sex with you're right you're not having sex with you're right you're not having sex with people you're not married to you're not people you're not married to you're not people you're not married to you're not a lover of money you're not a this a lover of money you're not a this a lover of money you're not a this you're not a that and that and that's you're not a that and that and that's you're not a that and that and that's that's leadership ho Spirit the fruits that's leadership ho Spirit the fruits that's leadership ho Spirit the fruits of the Holy Spirit are all character of the Holy Spirit are all character of the Holy Spirit are all character traits yeah you know like of course we traits yeah you know like of course we traits yeah you know like of course we want people who are kind gentle patient want people who are kind gentle patient want people who are kind gentle patient loving you know with self-control all of loving you know with self-control all of loving you know with self-control all of that and I don't know about you that that and I don't know about you that that and I don't know about you that does not the evil spirits come naturally does not the evil spirits come naturally does not the evil spirits come naturally to me the like lack of self-control the to me the like lack of self-control the to me the like lack of self-control the self-indulgence that is very natural for

self-indulgence that is very natural for self-indulgence that is very natural for me what is not fight for the other I got me what is not fight for the other I got me what is not fight for the other I got to fight for it man so like what was to fight for it man so like what was to fight for it man so like what was this line I read the other day it said this line I read the other day it said this line I read the other day it said Jesus never taught his disciples to Jesus never taught his disciples to Jesus never taught his disciples to preach he did teach them to pray that'll preach he did teach them to pray that'll preach he did teach them to pray that'll preach see we turned into a Ser I know preach see we turned into a Ser I know preach see we turned into a Ser I know you just turned into a Ser he he didn't you just turned into a Ser he he didn't you just turned into a Ser he he didn't he didn't go guys let me teach how to he didn't go guys let me teach how to he didn't go guys let me teach how to preach he said let me teach you to pray preach he said let me teach you to pray preach he said let me teach you to pray which means prayer is harder than which means prayer is harder than which means prayer is harder than preaching preaching preaching yeah which is true I just I just I just yeah which is true I just I just I just yeah which is true I just I just I just came up with that line right now that's came up with that line right now that's came up with that line right now that's a little PR is harder than pre pray is a little PR is harder than pre pray is a little PR is harder than pre pray is harder than preaching so let me preach harder than preaching so let me preach harder than preaching so let me preach about that th% you know that oh yeah about that th% you know that oh yeah about that th% you know that oh yeah yeah it is it is easier for me to write yeah it is it is easier for me to write yeah it is it is easier for me to write about something than to do it that's about something than to do it that's about something than to do it that's good uhhuh so I would say that's a good uhhuh so I would say that's a good uhhuh so I would say that's a lesson twice as hard on your character lesson twice as hard on your character lesson twice as hard on your character as you do on your as you do on your as you do on your competency um I've hinted at it before competency um I've hinted at it before competency um I've hinted at it before but this this one will flow out of it but this this one will flow out of it but this this one will flow out of it but it makes it clearer but it makes it clearer but it makes it clearer make sure that the people closest to you make sure that the people closest to you make sure that the people closest to you have the best experience of that's great have the best experience of that's great have the best experience of that's great the the the the leadership library is filled with the leadership library is filled with the leadership library is filled with people who were adored sold millions of people who were adored sold millions of people who were adored sold millions of books you know got millions of downloads books you know got millions of downloads books you know got millions of downloads views whatever and at the end of the views whatever and at the end of the views whatever and at the end of the day their wife didn't like them their day their wife didn't like them their day their wife didn't like them their adult children wouldn't talk to them adult children wouldn't talk to them adult children wouldn't talk to them their staff all quit because they were their staff all quit because they were their staff all quit because they were arrogant self-righteous jerks and I'm arrogant self-righteous jerks and I'm arrogant self-righteous jerks and I'm capable of being that person I do not capable of being that person I do not capable of being that person I do not want to be that person and so that is a

want to be that person and so that is a want to be that person and so that is a daily goal of mine like if Tony my wife daily goal of mine like if Tony my wife daily goal of mine like if Tony my wife is not having a great experience of me is not having a great experience of me is not having a great experience of me something is wrong if my kids are not something is wrong if my kids are not something is wrong if my kids are not getting the best version of me getting the best version of me getting the best version of me something's wrong um and what gets something's wrong um and what gets something's wrong um and what gets confusing is when you have millions of confusing is when you have millions of confusing is when you have millions of downloads and you've got you know lots downloads and you've got you know lots downloads and you've got you know lots of people who follow you it it can of people who follow you it it can of people who follow you it it can become justification for your bad become justification for your bad become justification for your bad behavior because you're like well these behavior because you're like well these behavior because you're like well these people love me well these people look at people love me well these people look at people love me well these people look at how many views this got look at how many how many views this got look at how many how many views this got look at how many list downloads this got like you know list downloads this got like you know list downloads this got like you know you're like look at how many people were you're like look at how many people were you're like look at how many people were in the room like come on man do you know in the room like come on man do you know in the room like come on man do you know how many conferences I've been invited how many conferences I've been invited how many conferences I've been invited to this is a sacrifice I have to make to this is a sacrifice I have to make to this is a sacrifice I have to make for them yeah exactly and it's like well for them yeah exactly and it's like well for them yeah exactly and it's like well they don't even like you anymore it's they don't even like you anymore it's they don't even like you anymore it's not good so you know you can you can you not good so you know you can you can you not good so you know you can you can you can plot that out biblically you can can plot that out biblically you can can plot that out biblically you can look at the Harvard longitudinal study look at the Harvard longitudinal study look at the Harvard longitudinal study of human happiness it's the same thing of human happiness it's the same thing of human happiness it's the same thing the successful people who have money and the successful people who have money and the successful people who have money and title and houses but who sacrifice the title and houses but who sacrifice the title and houses but who sacrifice the things closest to them they're miserable things closest to them they're miserable things closest to them they're miserable yep somebody living in a double wide and yep somebody living in a double wide and yep somebody living in a double wide and a rural community who has a great a rural community who has a great a rural community who has a great relationship a long marriage and great relationship a long marriage and great relationship a long marriage and great friendships with their neighbors those friendships with their neighbors those friendships with their neighbors those those are the Happy People yeah well you those are the Happy People yeah well you those are the Happy People yeah well you were preaching on this at our church you were preaching on this at our church you were preaching on this at our church you know you were saying hey blessed are you know you were saying hey blessed are you know you were saying hey blessed are you when you're empty cuz when it comes to when you're empty cuz when it comes to when you're empty cuz when it comes to that like I need God I am not naturally that like I need God I am not naturally that like I need God I am not naturally that way 100% okay so so that's young that way 100% okay so so that's young that way 100% okay so so that's young leaders what about one or two pieces of leaders what about one or two pieces of leaders what about one or two pieces of advice for older advice for older advice for older leaders give it up sooner than you want leaders give it up sooner than you want leaders give it up sooner than you want to there are so many leaders right now to there are so many leaders right now to there are so many leaders right now who are hanging on too long their

who are hanging on too long their who are hanging on too long their leadership peaked 5 years ago 10 years leadership peaked 5 years ago 10 years leadership peaked 5 years ago 10 years ago sometimes they need the money ago sometimes they need the money ago sometimes they need the money sometimes it's a case that their sometimes it's a case that their sometimes it's a case that their identity is entangled in what they do identity is entangled in what they do identity is entangled in what they do and I didn't have a golden path in front and I didn't have a golden path in front and I didn't have a golden path in front of me when I stepped out of the lead of me when I stepped out of the lead of me when I stepped out of the lead Pastor role it was you know a little bit Pastor role it was you know a little bit Pastor role it was you know a little bit of a okay for the next few years I'll of a okay for the next few years I'll of a okay for the next few years I'll teach and then I don't know what I'll do teach and then I don't know what I'll do teach and then I don't know what I'll do after that but God provided and I after that but God provided and I after that but God provided and I wouldn't let money get into your calling wouldn't let money get into your calling wouldn't let money get into your calling the other thing I would say uh to older the other thing I would say uh to older the other thing I would say uh to older leaders is is really focus on finishing leaders is is really focus on finishing leaders is is really focus on finishing well like when I go to a counselor these well like when I go to a counselor these well like when I go to a counselor these days it's all about finishing well I've days it's all about finishing well I've days it's all about finishing well I've got a few decades ahead of me yet where got a few decades ahead of me yet where got a few decades ahead of me yet where I think I can be contributing I've got I think I can be contributing I've got I think I can be contributing I've got hopefully 20 30 years left in my hopefully 20 30 years left in my hopefully 20 30 years left in my marriage you know before I go to the marriage you know before I go to the marriage you know before I go to the other side of Eternity you know that other side of Eternity you know that other side of Eternity you know that sounded weird didn't it anyway I love it sounded weird didn't it anyway I love it sounded weird didn't it anyway I love it yeah but you know like I've got I've got yeah but you know like I've got I've got yeah but you know like I've got I've got a few decades left where and and I don't a few decades left where and and I don't a few decades left where and and I don't want to blow it I want to be that guy want to blow it I want to be that guy want to blow it I want to be that guy who just because I think as you get who just because I think as you get who just because I think as you get older balance leaves you you ever older balance leaves you you ever older balance leaves you you ever noticed there's very few balanced old noticed there's very few balanced old noticed there's very few balanced old people it's like you're either really people it's like you're either really people it's like you're either really happy or you're like the crotchety old happy or you're like the crotchety old happy or you're like the crotchety old man right and I am very aware that I man right and I am very aware that I man right and I am very aware that I could be that crotchety old guy yeah cuz could be that crotchety old guy yeah cuz could be that crotchety old guy yeah cuz knowledge brings cynicism right why knowledge brings cynicism right why knowledge brings cynicism right why where does disillusionment come from you where does disillusionment come from you where does disillusionment come from you know too much and so I want to be know too much and so I want to be know too much and so I want to be serious and you and you you experience serious and you and you you experience serious and you and you you experience the world and you start to go you know the world and you start to go you know the world and you start to go you know what I'm I'm cynical yeah because um

what I'm I'm cynical yeah because um what I'm I'm cynical yeah because um like I we had an experience I had an like I we had an experience I had an like I we had an experience I had an experience uh I don't know how long ago experience uh I don't know how long ago experience uh I don't know how long ago it was now six seven years ago where one it was now six seven years ago where one it was now six seven years ago where one of my pastors one of these people that of my pastors one of these people that of my pastors one of these people that had been in front of my church for four had been in front of my church for four had been in front of my church for four or five years they were great they were or five years they were great they were or five years they were great they were trusted they they had a moral failure a trusted they they had a moral failure a trusted they they had a moral failure a repetitive kind of thing pattern and it repetitive kind of thing pattern and it repetitive kind of thing pattern and it was a big deal and uh and I it's almost was a big deal and uh and I it's almost was a big deal and uh and I it's almost like like something in me broke where I like like something in me broke where I like like something in me broke where I went I don't I almost like I always went I don't I almost like I always went I don't I almost like I always build this into my leadership uh talks build this into my leadership uh talks build this into my leadership uh talks now when I go meet with I was meeting now when I go meet with I was meeting now when I go meet with I was meeting with uh 40 pastors right near San with uh 40 pastors right near San with uh 40 pastors right near San Francisco uh a couple months ago and I Francisco uh a couple months ago and I Francisco uh a couple months ago and I built it I actually like edited my talk built it I actually like edited my talk built it I actually like edited my talk and I put in like the 11th and I put in like the 11th and I put in like the 11th characteristic of a good leader and one characteristic of a good leader and one characteristic of a good leader and one of it was like don't let anything of it was like don't let anything of it was like don't let anything surprise you and it was basically surprise you and it was basically surprise you and it was basically believe your own believe your own believe your own theology about the depravity of kind and theology about the depravity of kind and theology about the depravity of kind and don't let when one of your staff members don't let when one of your staff members don't let when one of your staff members fails you and totally messes up their fails you and totally messes up their fails you and totally messes up their life don't let it go oh my goodness this life don't let it go oh my goodness this life don't let it go oh my goodness this ruin my faith just really believe your ruin my faith just really believe your ruin my faith just really believe your own theology that anyone is is can do own theology that anyone is is can do own theology that anyone is is can do this and and that experience almost this and and that experience almost this and and that experience almost taught me that it's like wait I totally taught me that it's like wait I totally taught me that it's like wait I totally trusted this I totally thought I knew trusted this I totally thought I knew trusted this I totally thought I knew this person and I didn't know this this person and I didn't know this this person and I didn't know this person and they lied and they connived person and they lied and they connived person and they lied and they connived and they they did these strategic and it and they they did these strategic and it and they they did these strategic and it made me realize like and so there's a made me realize like and so there's a made me realize like and so there's a piece of my optimism that almost got piece of my optimism that almost got piece of my optimism that almost got killed there it's not that I became a killed there it's not that I became a killed there it's not that I became a pessimist it's that I went okay man

pessimist it's that I went okay man pessimist it's that I went okay man humanity is even Christian leaders are humanity is even Christian leaders are humanity is even Christian leaders are wonky yeah and and to so to your point wonky yeah and and to so to your point wonky yeah and and to so to your point like you get you you experience things like you get you you experience things like you get you you experience things in life and you become more in life and you become more in life and you become more pessimistic you can and you know I know pessimistic you can and you know I know pessimistic you can and you know I know you had that thing happen few years ago you had that thing happen few years ago you had that thing happen few years ago this year earlier this year someone this year earlier this year someone this year earlier this year someone really close to me had a moral failure really close to me had a moral failure really close to me had a moral failure well I guess it happened a while ago but well I guess it happened a while ago but well I guess it happened a while ago but it was revealed it was revealed it was revealed and it was really interesting cuz it was and it was really interesting cuz it was and it was really interesting cuz it was absolutely crushed but two things absolutely crushed but two things absolutely crushed but two things happened when I got the phone call and happened when I got the phone call and happened when I got the phone call and you know the phone Call's coming but you you know the phone Call's coming but you you know the phone Call's coming but you don't know what it's about but you know don't know what it's about but you know don't know what it's about but you know it's bad it's bad it's bad yeah I I did a quick inventory of my yeah I I did a quick inventory of my yeah I I did a quick inventory of my life and I'm like oh there's there's life and I'm like oh there's there's life and I'm like oh there's there's nothing there so I must be about them nothing there so I must be about them nothing there so I must be about them like it it's not it's that you know do I like it it's not it's that you know do I like it it's not it's that you know do I have a clean conscience screw up have a clean conscience screw up have a clean conscience screw up regularly man but like there's nothing regularly man but like there's nothing regularly man but like there's nothing there that I've been trying to hide or there that I've been trying to hide or there that I've been trying to hide or bury or anything so I thought okay well bury or anything so I thought okay well bury or anything so I thought okay well that that was that and then the second that that was that and then the second that that was that and then the second thing is I was able to be devastated for thing is I was able to be devastated for thing is I was able to be devastated for them and for the mission that we were on them and for the mission that we were on them and for the mission that we were on together but not give up on the big together but not give up on the big together but not give up on the big mission or the church and that would be mission or the church and that would be mission or the church and that would be really interesting to reflect on good really interesting to reflect on good really interesting to reflect on good because it would be I was more I wasn't because it would be I was more I wasn't because it would be I was more I wasn't like oh it's all all Christian leaders like oh it's all all Christian leaders like oh it's all all Christian leaders cuz I don't believe that's true yeah I cuz I don't believe that's true yeah I cuz I don't believe that's true yeah I did feel empathy for the people who did feel empathy for the people who did feel empathy for the people who would read the headline and go see it's

would read the headline and go see it's would read the headline and go see it's all Christian leaders I know it's not all Christian leaders I know it's not all Christian leaders I know it's not and I don't know where that came from and I don't know where that came from and I don't know where that came from yeah um well it's it's as our experience yeah um well it's it's as our experience yeah um well it's it's as our experience teaches us about some people and makes teaches us about some people and makes teaches us about some people and makes us pessimistic knowing enough leaders us pessimistic knowing enough leaders us pessimistic knowing enough leaders also Mak those optimis to go okay this also Mak those optimis to go okay this also Mak those optimis to go okay this isn't everybody like this isn't this isn't everybody like this isn't this isn't everybody like this isn't this isn't you this isn't isn't you this isn't isn't you this isn't so there's a hopeful yeah Spirit to go so there's a hopeful yeah Spirit to go so there's a hopeful yeah Spirit to go okay there are some people who are okay there are some people who are okay there are some people who are actually going to make it to the end and actually going to make it to the end and actually going to make it to the end and and you know we've talked like I I I uh and you know we've talked like I I I uh and you know we've talked like I I I uh you know work for Ray Johnson down at you know work for Ray Johnson down at you know work for Ray Johnson down at Bayside Church here's a man who's like Bayside Church here's a man who's like Bayside Church here's a man who's like still running yeah hard and he has more still running yeah hard and he has more still running yeah hard and he has more energy than anyone in staff he's Godly energy than anyone in staff he's Godly energy than anyone in staff he's Godly he's humble he loves his family he loves he's humble he loves his family he loves he's humble he loves his family he loves his wife he's his character is through his wife he's his character is through his wife he's his character is through the roof nobody's a bigger champion of the roof nobody's a bigger champion of the roof nobody's a bigger champion of the people around him I mean he and and the people around him I mean he and and the people around him I mean he and and actually Jeff the guy who took over for actually Jeff the guy who took over for actually Jeff the guy who took over for you that you mentored up and took over you that you mentored up and took over you that you mentored up and took over your church very successfully and your church very successfully and your church very successfully and beautifully him and I were talking about beautifully him and I were talking about beautifully him and I were talking about Ray today and he's just like I just want Ray today and he's just like I just want Ray today and he's just like I just want to be that guy like I want to end not to be that guy like I want to end not to be that guy like I want to end not that Ray's end but it's like I want I that Ray's end but it's like I want I that Ray's end but it's like I want I want to be that age Still Still yeah you want to be that age Still Still yeah you want to be that age Still Still yeah you only got a few laps and I want to be only got a few laps and I want to be only got a few laps and I want to be that I want to be like I love Jesus I that I want to be like I love Jesus I that I want to be like I love Jesus I love the church I love the leaders love the church I love the leaders love the church I love the leaders around me I love my family my family around me I love my family my family around me I love my family my family loves me my church loves me all of that loves me my church loves me all of that loves me my church loves me all of that that's that's what we all aspire to yeah that's that's what we all aspire to yeah that's that's what we all aspire to yeah and to get to that point and be like and to get to that point and be like and to get to that point and be like still optimistic hopeful the world still optimistic hopeful the world still optimistic hopeful the world didn't destroy you it's amazing dude didn't destroy you it's amazing dude didn't destroy you it's amazing dude it's work because the older you get the

it's work because the older you get the it's work because the older you get the more you know the more you know the more more you know the more you know the more more you know the more you know the more grounds there are for cynicism or Pride grounds there are for cynicism or Pride grounds there are for cynicism or Pride or whatever so it's just constant work or whatever so it's just constant work or whatever so it's just constant work and I'm I'm committed to continuing to and I'm I'm committed to continuing to and I'm I'm committed to continuing to work on it love it okay uh as we wrap work on it love it okay uh as we wrap work on it love it okay uh as we wrap this up what are you what are you Carrie this up what are you what are you Carrie this up what are you what are you Carrie newoff excited about for the future what newoff excited about for the future what newoff excited about for the future what do you I mean you're you're writing you do you I mean you're you're writing you do you I mean you're you're writing you love writing or you hate is writing a a love writing or you hate is writing a a love writing or you hate is writing a a chore or a I don't love it as much I chore or a I don't love it as much I chore or a I don't love it as much I love I love writing I love getting in love I love writing I love getting in love I love writing I love getting in the flow I love getting in the flow I the flow I love getting in the flow I the flow I love getting in the flow I love the idea stage I love mostly the love the idea stage I love mostly the love the idea stage I love mostly the first draft stage editing is not as fun first draft stage editing is not as fun first draft stage editing is not as fun okay um but and I love having written okay um but and I love having written okay um but and I love having written like I'm really proud of the five books like I'm really proud of the five books like I'm really proud of the five books I've done that's good like and I I'm I've done that's good like and I I'm I've done that's good like and I I'm like okay at your best that was my best like okay at your best that was my best like okay at your best that was my best shot didn't see it coming that was my shot didn't see it coming that was my shot didn't see it coming that was my best shot like I I've fired bu and it best shot like I I've fired bu and it best shot like I I've fired bu and it was right at the tget may not be the was right at the tget may not be the was right at the tget may not be the tget for everybody it was the best I did tget for everybody it was the best I did tget for everybody it was the best I did I'm really excited for the future of the I'm really excited for the future of the I'm really excited for the future of the church I see a new generation of leaders church I see a new generation of leaders church I see a new generation of leaders stepping up I don't think there's a lot stepping up I don't think there's a lot stepping up I don't think there's a lot of them that's a problem we got to do of them that's a problem we got to do of them that's a problem we got to do you know we see what's happening with you know we see what's happening with you know we see what's happening with Gen Z and there's you know Revival Gen Z and there's you know Revival Gen Z and there's you know Revival happening and there's a seriousness like happening and there's a seriousness like happening and there's a seriousness like the church is in good hands first of all the church is in good hands first of all the church is in good hands first of all it's in God's hands secondly it's in it's in God's hands secondly it's in it's in God's hands secondly it's in NextGen hands one of my missions is to NextGen hands one of my missions is to NextGen hands one of my missions is to serve those next Generations leaders and serve those next Generations leaders and serve those next Generations leaders and make sure my generation gets out of the make sure my generation gets out of the make sure my generation gets out of the way fast enough to help them take over way fast enough to help them take over way fast enough to help them take over leadership really excited about the leadership really excited about the leadership really excited about the future too you know we we touched on AI future too you know we we touched on AI future too you know we we touched on AI briefly I think I think there's going to

briefly I think I think there's going to briefly I think I think there's going to be a role for the church that AI is not be a role for the church that AI is not be a role for the church that AI is not going to replace so right you know I was going to replace so right you know I was going to replace so right you know I was looking at coaching talking about looking at coaching talking about looking at coaching talking about business decisions along the way or business decisions along the way or business decisions along the way or strategic decisions I have a course strategic decisions I have a course strategic decisions I have a course called breaking 200 and it's a lot of I called breaking 200 and it's a lot of I called breaking 200 and it's a lot of I could teach you how to do the course and could teach you how to do the course and could teach you how to do the course and I had a guy who wanted to be like I had a guy who wanted to be like I had a guy who wanted to be like certified in it and really good guy but certified in it and really good guy but certified in it and really good guy but he had never led a church through 200 he had never led a church through 200 he had never led a church through 200 and I'm like I don't think that's going and I'm like I don't think that's going and I'm like I don't think that's going to work to work to work because people who are trying to get because people who are trying to get because people who are trying to get through the 200 barrier in attendance through the 200 barrier in attendance through the 200 barrier in attendance sure they know whether you've been there sure they know whether you've been there sure they know whether you've been there or not yeah you either like if you're or not yeah you either like if you're or not yeah you either like if you're telling me you know we're at 260 I don't telling me you know we're at 260 I don't telling me you know we're at 260 I don't think we can keep going it just people think we can keep going it just people think we can keep going it just people get mad people are leaving people are get mad people are leaving people are get mad people are leaving people are saying this I got War Stories man I can saying this I got War Stories man I can saying this I got War Stories man I can sit down I can show you the scar I can sit down I can show you the scar I can sit down I can show you the scar I can talk about the board meeting I can talk talk about the board meeting I can talk talk about the board meeting I can talk about the people who left I can talk about the people who left I can talk about the people who left I can talk about the people who stayed I can talk about the people who stayed I can talk about the people who stayed I can talk like I've got that yep in my if you want like I've got that yep in my if you want like I've got that yep in my if you want to talk about podcasting I can talk all to talk about podcasting I can talk all to talk about podcasting I can talk all day long so AI even in its near future day long so AI even in its near future day long so AI even in its near future iterations we'll be able to write the iterations we'll be able to write the iterations we'll be able to write the course but they won't be a there's a course but they won't be a there's a course but they won't be a there's a knowing yes there's a okay here's an knowing yes there's a okay here's an knowing yes there's a okay here's an essay on being a dad of three daughters essay on being a dad of three daughters essay on being a dad of three daughters right but I have no children yeah okay I right but I have no children yeah okay I right but I have no children yeah okay I have kids but I don't have any daughters have kids but I don't have any daughters have kids but I don't have any daughters but I sit down with Mark who has three but I sit down with Mark who has three but I sit down with Mark who has three teenage daughters you're in it you're in teenage daughters you're in it you're in teenage daughters you're in it you're in it you know there's a four mothers at it you know there's a four mothers at it you know there's a four mothers at home guys three daughters and a wife home guys three daughters and a wife home guys three daughters and a wife it's very it's very

it's very it's very it's very it's very um very human very Heart level so is AI um very human very Heart level so is AI um very human very Heart level so is AI going to be good taking away a lot of going to be good taking away a lot of going to be good taking away a lot of jobs yeah yeah is does Ministry have a jobs yeah yeah is does Ministry have a jobs yeah yeah is does Ministry have a future yes yeah like as as people look future yes yeah like as as people look future yes yeah like as as people look for the soul as people look for the for the soul as people look for the for the soul as people look for the heart it's sort of like you know if you heart it's sort of like you know if you heart it's sort of like you know if you think about it what what have I done for think about it what what have I done for think about it what what have I done for the last 10 years all I have is the last 10 years all I have is the last 10 years all I have is conversations and ideas that's it but conversations and ideas that's it but conversations and ideas that's it but you think about it information is you think about it information is you think about it information is everywhere it's exploded we all know the everywhere it's exploded we all know the everywhere it's exploded we all know the stats I mean it's exponential doubling stats I mean it's exponential doubling stats I mean it's exponential doubling every two years or exactly you know so every two years or exactly you know so every two years or exactly you know so it's not a lack of information that it's not a lack of information that it's not a lack of information that people have what they're lacking is people have what they're lacking is people have what they're lacking is meaning and insight so I focused on meaning and insight so I focused on meaning and insight so I focused on providing meaning and insight well you providing meaning and insight well you providing meaning and insight well you know there's an infinite level for that know there's an infinite level for that know there's an infinite level for that in fact we cut through the noise for in fact we cut through the noise for in fact we cut through the noise for people so I think AI is going to be the people so I think AI is going to be the people so I think AI is going to be the same thing and I think as people get same thing and I think as people get same thing and I think as people get into AI relationships they get into am into AI relationships they get into am into AI relationships they get into am AI romance AI sex AI leadership training AI romance AI sex AI leadership training AI romance AI sex AI leadership training there's going to be a human thing that's there's going to be a human thing that's there's going to be a human thing that's just missing AI sex we can speak are you just missing AI sex we can speak are you just missing AI sex we can speak are you kidding me don't Google that kid don't kidding me don't Google that kid don't kidding me don't Google that kid don't Google that no I've done on that it's Google that no I've done on that it's Google that no I've done on that it's here it's here oh my goodness that's here it's here oh my goodness that's here it's here oh my goodness that's that's the scary part Ian and I always that's the scary part Ian and I always that's the scary part Ian and I always kind of joke to the chur like don't we kind of joke to the chur like don't we kind of joke to the chur like don't we know this story we've seen the movie AI know this story we've seen the movie AI know this story we've seen the movie AI is going to kill us and why I'm is going to kill us and why I'm is going to kill us and why I'm terrified even say it online because AI terrified even say it online because AI terrified even say it online because AI is going to take my they're listening is going to take my they're listening is going to take my they're listening you know they're listening and uh but you know they're listening and uh but you know they're listening and uh but there's such Rich ways we you know we there's such Rich ways we you know we there's such Rich ways we you know we can use it we uh one of our pastors did

can use it we uh one of our pastors did can use it we uh one of our pastors did a presentation the other day about how a presentation the other day about how a presentation the other day about how you can use it for emailing and cutting you can use it for emailing and cutting you can use it for emailing and cutting up sermon clips and you know doing a up sermon clips and you know doing a up sermon clips and you know doing a whole bunch of great content and whole bunch of great content and whole bunch of great content and whatever and and in that way it's going whatever and and in that way it's going whatever and and in that way it's going to be great we can't hide from to be great we can't hide from to be great we can't hide from technology which the church has done I technology which the church has done I technology which the church has done I remember I mean both of us ran churches remember I mean both of us ran churches remember I mean both of us ran churches that did video campuses MH you know uh that did video campuses MH you know uh that did video campuses MH you know uh there are don't believe in video there are don't believe in video there are don't believe in video teaching right until 20120 and then teaching right until 20120 and then teaching right until 20120 and then everyone believed yeah all of a sudden everyone believed yeah all of a sudden everyone believed yeah all of a sudden it was the great you know connector um it was the great you know connector um it was the great you know connector um but we you know in many ways people who but we you know in many ways people who but we you know in many ways people who said oh people don't need video said oh people don't need video said oh people don't need video preaching it's like okay you know this preaching it's like okay you know this preaching it's like okay you know this is what the church does we're late is what the church does we're late is what the church does we're late adopters we're so slow to go oh the the adopters we're so slow to go oh the the adopters we're so slow to go oh the the Press we should print Bible you know we Press we should print Bible you know we Press we should print Bible you know we need to leverage these Technologies need to leverage these Technologies need to leverage these Technologies but try not to take the Dark Side of but try not to take the Dark Side of but try not to take the Dark Side of them well and people are going to live them well and people are going to live them well and people are going to live with unintended consequences like you with unintended consequences like you with unintended consequences like you look at you look at what social media look at you look at what social media look at you look at what social media has done to the mental health of a has done to the mental health of a has done to the mental health of a generation yes and we didn't know that generation yes and we didn't know that generation yes and we didn't know that in 2010 we know it now know so the in 2010 we know it now know so the in 2010 we know it now know so the church can really step in and try to church can really step in and try to church can really step in and try to help people with the unintended help people with the unintended help people with the unintended consequences what do you yeah how how do consequences what do you yeah how how do consequences what do you yeah how how do we do that so so I I just so Jonathan we do that so so I I just so Jonathan we do that so so I I just so Jonathan hay obviously wrote you know the anxious hay obviously wrote you know the anxious hay obviously wrote you know the anxious generation just now there's there's data generation just now there's there's data generation just now there's there's data coming out coming out coming out uh this generation is more anxious than uh this generation is more anxious than uh this generation is more anxious than a regular person who would go in a you a regular person who would go in a you a regular person who would go in a you know institution in the 1950s the know institution in the 1950s the know institution in the 1950s the anxiety the pressure the technology the anxiety the pressure the technology the anxiety the pressure the technology the information they know a bunch of stuff information they know a bunch of stuff information they know a bunch of stuff we didn't know you know all of that what we didn't know you know all of that what we didn't know you know all of that what do we what do how do we how do we

do we what do how do we how do we do we what do how do we how do we navigate this what do we do in this navigate this what do we do in this navigate this what do we do in this scenario I mean you told me a funny scenario I mean you told me a funny scenario I mean you told me a funny story tell the story about you're in story tell the story about you're in story tell the story about you're in yosity oh yeah yeah yeah that's a great yosity oh yeah yeah yeah that's a great yosity oh yeah yeah yeah that's a great story so you know my wife's birthday story so you know my wife's birthday story so you know my wife's birthday last year we go to yede and which is is last year we go to yede and which is is last year we go to yede and which is is 2 hours for me but I've never been there 2 hours for me but I've never been there 2 hours for me but I've never been there but anyway so we're in California with but anyway so we're in California with but anyway so we're in California with some friends including you and we're some friends including you and we're some friends including you and we're like yeah for Tony's birthday we're like yeah for Tony's birthday we're like yeah for Tony's birthday we're going to Yus so I start getting phone going to Yus so I start getting phone going to Yus so I start getting phone calls the day before dude yose's closed calls the day before dude yose's closed calls the day before dude yose's closed look at the news the Y's Clos I was one look at the news the Y's Clos I was one look at the news the Y's Clos I was one of those phone calls you one of those of those phone calls you one of those of those phone calls you one of those admin went oh don't send Carrie to yuse admin went oh don't send Carrie to yuse admin went oh don't send Carrie to yuse it's clothes I'm like what so I called it's clothes I'm like what so I called it's clothes I'm like what so I called you I said Buy's clothes don't show up you I said Buy's clothes don't show up you I said Buy's clothes don't show up anyway so we made a few phone calls to anyway so we made a few phone calls to anyway so we made a few phone calls to yosee so the information circulating was yosee so the information circulating was yosee so the information circulating was somewhat true the reality is a part of somewhat true the reality is a part of somewhat true the reality is a part of the park was closed but the Yos Valley the park was closed but the Yos Valley the park was closed but the Yos Valley was beautiful and it was open so Tony was beautiful and it was open so Tony was beautiful and it was open so Tony and I go there right after the crack of and I go there right after the crack of and I go there right after the crack of dawn soon as the park opens it's us and dawn soon as the park opens it's us and dawn soon as the park opens it's us and 18 Millennials in camper vans we have 18 Millennials in camper vans we have 18 Millennials in camper vans we have the place to ourselves we go up to elap the place to ourselves we go up to elap the place to ourselves we go up to elap we hike the mered river we do all of we hike the mered river we do all of we hike the mered river we do all of this stuff see bridal veil like and we this stuff see bridal veil like and we this stuff see bridal veil like and we got the park to ourselves it's amazing got the park to ourselves it's amazing got the park to ourselves it's amazing so I'm talking to my mom cuz it's Tony's so I'm talking to my mom cuz it's Tony's so I'm talking to my mom cuz it's Tony's birthday and she's like we're watching birthday and she's like we're watching birthday and she's like we're watching the news and like be careful because the news and like be careful because the news and like be careful because like the river's flooding and I'm like like the river's flooding and I'm like like the river's flooding and I'm like Mom I'm standing at the river like I'm Mom I'm standing at the river like I'm Mom I'm standing at the river like I'm in no danger but the river's flooding in no danger but the river's flooding in no danger but the river's flooding careful car car and I'm like Carrie is careful car car and I'm like Carrie is careful car car and I'm like Carrie is your mom talking like George castanas no your mom talking like George castanas no your mom talking like George castanas no no she's not George don't go to the no she's not George don't go to the no she's not George don't go to the river hold not to let him go that's

river hold not to let him go that's river hold not to let him go that's Frank castanza two of my favorite Frank castanza two of my favorite Frank castanza two of my favorite characters again nobody listening see characters again nobody listening see characters again nobody listening see there you go no they're be what's that there you go no they're be what's that there you go no they're be what's that what's a castanza a stanza Seinfeld's what's a castanza a stanza Seinfeld's what's a castanza a stanza Seinfeld's like 30 years old now anyway so anyway like 30 years old now anyway so anyway like 30 years old now anyway so anyway no but she's like I'm like at you to be no but she's like I'm like at you to be no but she's like I'm like at you to be careful fall the river and there's no careful fall the river and there's no careful fall the river and there's no nothing in case of my mom she's talking nothing in case of my mom she's talking nothing in case of my mom she's talking to me but yeah you're right and there's to me but yeah you're right and there's to me but yeah you're right and there's nothing and I'm like so I sent her a nothing and I'm like so I sent her a nothing and I'm like so I sent her a picture I think I facetimed her I'm like picture I think I facetimed her I'm like picture I think I facetimed her I'm like look it's just a raging River we're fine look it's just a raging River we're fine look it's just a raging River we're fine she's watching the news too much she's watching the news too much she's watching the news too much information we know every convenience information we know every convenience information we know every convenience store that gets robbed in Pittsburgh store that gets robbed in Pittsburgh store that gets robbed in Pittsburgh yeah every time the queen has a yeah every time the queen has a yeah every time the queen has a sniffle it's every it's every bit of sniffle it's every it's every bit of sniffle it's every it's every bit of information we can do about we know too information we can do about we know too information we can do about we know too much and so we have all of this anxiety much and so we have all of this anxiety much and so we have all of this anxiety that social media is producing and the that social media is producing and the that social media is producing and the thing about AI it's like you know the thing about AI it's like you know the thing about AI it's like you know the unknown unknowns we don't know what we unknown unknowns we don't know what we unknown unknowns we don't know what we don't know we don't know we don't know don't know we don't know we don't know don't know we don't know we don't know and but we have to be ready and what and but we have to be ready and what and but we have to be ready and what that means is we have to be students of that means is we have to be students of that means is we have to be students of it we have to be open I'm doing more it we have to be open I'm doing more it we have to be open I'm doing more interviews on AI I'm reading about it interviews on AI I'm reading about it interviews on AI I'm reading about it I'm studying it I'm using it and then we I'm studying it I'm using it and then we I'm studying it I'm using it and then we have to be ready to Pastor people who have to be ready to Pastor people who have to be ready to Pastor people who are struggling with some of the are struggling with some of the are struggling with some of the implications when you get on a pod do implications when you get on a pod do implications when you get on a pod do you um uh you don't have to totally tell you um uh you don't have to totally tell you um uh you don't have to totally tell the 100% truth here but oh yeah do you the 100% truth here but oh yeah do you the 100% truth here but oh yeah do you like read the books of these people that like read the books of these people that like read the books of these people that you're you're you're interviewing prep do you prep 95 interviewing prep do you prep 95 interviewing prep do you prep 95 questions do you chat GPT do you just questions do you chat GPT do you just questions do you chat GPT do you just riff and get in the room with them and riff and get in the room with them and riff and get in the room with them and start going like what's your prep start going like what's your prep start going like what's your prep process what what is your it varies by process what what is your it varies by process what what is your it varies by guest so a mixture of all of the above guest so a mixture of all of the above guest so a mixture of all of the above of course when you have me on you read of course when you have me on you read of course when you have me on you read my book very in depth and of course of

my book very in depth and of course of my book very in depth and of course of course thank you for only writing two course thank you for only writing two course thank you for only writing two made it a lot easier okay I know the made it a lot easier okay I know the made it a lot easier okay I know the third's on the way and I've already read third's on the way and I've already read third's on the way and I've already read the intro of that there but anyway no uh the intro of that there but anyway no uh the intro of that there but anyway no uh uh mixture of all of the above so if uh mixture of all of the above so if uh mixture of all of the above so if it's a particular guest that I really it's a particular guest that I really it's a particular guest that I really want to drill down on I will read the want to drill down on I will read the want to drill down on I will read the entire book I found myself a couple entire book I found myself a couple entire book I found myself a couple years ago getting almost into a book years ago getting almost into a book years ago getting almost into a book club and I'm like wait 99% of the people club and I'm like wait 99% of the people club and I'm like wait 99% of the people who are listening to us haven't read the who are listening to us haven't read the who are listening to us haven't read the book so I did more of a Larry King and book so I did more of a Larry King and book so I did more of a Larry King and like was familiar with enough with it like was familiar with enough with it like was familiar with enough with it not to insult the guest but Larry King's not to insult the guest but Larry King's not to insult the guest but Larry King's philosophy was hey man like most people philosophy was hey man like most people philosophy was hey man like most people haven't read the book they don't even haven't read the book they don't even haven't read the book they don't even know who you are I'm not going to do know who you are I'm not going to do know who you are I'm not going to do like a book study okay do you remember like a book study okay do you remember like a book study okay do you remember that Larry there's that classic Larry that Larry there's that classic Larry that Larry there's that classic Larry King CLI where he's interviewing Jerry King CLI where he's interviewing Jerry King CLI where he's interviewing Jerry Seinfeld not to bring it back to you Seinfeld not to bring it back to you Seinfeld not to bring it back to you remember this clip no I don't I don't remember this clip no I don't I don't remember this clip no I don't I don't where he's he's doing his Larry King where he's he's doing his Larry King where he's he's doing his Larry King thing I mean it's a great clip and it's thing I mean it's a great clip and it's thing I mean it's a great clip and it's shared all over the place but he's doing shared all over the place but he's doing shared all over the place but he's doing his Larry King thing and he's saying you his Larry King thing and he's saying you his Larry King thing and he's saying you know so Jerry's done the final episode know so Jerry's done the final episode know so Jerry's done the final episode the show's been off the air you know the show's been off the air you know the show's been off the air you know it's or it's going off the you know the it's or it's going off the you know the it's or it's going off the you know the final episode's done and and about to be final episode's done and and about to be final episode's done and and about to be whatever it was 1999 or 2000 and Larry's whatever it was 1999 or 2000 and Larry's whatever it was 1999 or 2000 and Larry's like so why did you stop doing the show like so why did you stop doing the show like so why did you stop doing the show or Larry says this to Jerry why did you or Larry says this to Jerry why did you or Larry says this to Jerry why did you stop doing the show like did you did you stop doing the show like did you did you stop doing the show like did you did you get get get cancelled and Jerry's like and and cancelled and Jerry's like and and cancelled and Jerry's like and and they're kind of joking but it's a famous they're kind of joking but it's a famous they're kind of joking but it's a famous interview because Jerry's like did I get interview because Jerry's like did I get interview because Jerry's like did I get cancelled I was the number one show on cancelled I was the number one show on cancelled I was the number one show on the air Larry have you have you been the air Larry have you have you been the air Larry have you have you been anywhere recently have you been out of anywhere recently have you been out of anywhere recently have you been out of your we're the why would I would be your we're the why would I would be your we're the why would I would be canceled we're the number one you know

canceled we're the number one you know canceled we're the number one you know and he's kind of joking Like Larry do and he's kind of joking Like Larry do and he's kind of joking Like Larry do you even know who I am like did you do you even know who I am like did you do you even know who I am like did you do your research Larry King you know it's your research Larry King you know it's your research Larry King you know it's kind of one of those like why are you kind of one of those like why are you kind of one of those like why are you asking asking but it's it's asking a asking asking but it's it's asking a asking asking but it's it's asking a question he kind of knows but he's just question he kind of knows but he's just question he kind of knows but he's just asking it as an interviewer after after asking it as an interviewer after after asking it as an interviewer after after the final episode it should have been the final episode it should have been the final episode it should have been canceled that was a weird one um yeah so canceled that was a weird one um yeah so canceled that was a weird one um yeah so anyway so it's kind of that like you've anyway so it's kind of that like you've anyway so it's kind of that like you've got to put yourself in the posture of I got to put yourself in the posture of I got to put yourself in the posture of I don't know anything please tell me but I don't know anything please tell me but I don't know anything please tell me but I kind of do know it's an I want to avoid kind of do know it's an I want to avoid kind of do know it's an I want to avoid that I want to avoid being the I'm not that I want to avoid being the I'm not that I want to avoid being the I'm not saying Larry King idiot but like I want saying Larry King idiot but like I want saying Larry King idiot but like I want to avoid so Mark if you if you're ever to avoid so Mark if you if you're ever to avoid so Mark if you if you're ever going to write a book it's like wrote to going to write a book it's like wrote to going to write a book it's like wrote to you IDI you end two of them you Endor you IDI you end two of them you Endor you IDI you end two of them you Endor two of them newoff you don't even two of them newoff you don't even two of them newoff you don't even remember that I don't want to be that remember that I don't want to be that remember that I don't want to be that guy uh where do you live now it depends guy uh where do you live now it depends guy uh where do you live now it depends on the guest sometimes honestly prep is on the guest sometimes honestly prep is on the guest sometimes honestly prep is 10 minutes I know exactly where I want 10 minutes I know exactly where I want 10 minutes I know exactly where I want to go I know that guest life I'm like to go I know that guest life I'm like to go I know that guest life I'm like boom boom boom boom boom other times boom boom boom boom boom other times boom boom boom boom boom other times will gdar is coming back on the show uh will gdar is coming back on the show uh will gdar is coming back on the show uh we're meeting my restaurant tour friends we're meeting my restaurant tour friends we're meeting my restaurant tour friends tonight I've asked them like hit me up tonight I've asked them like hit me up tonight I've asked them like hit me up questions for round two that's great and questions for round two that's great and questions for round two that's great and it'll be the Curiosity Trail because it'll be the Curiosity Trail because it'll be the Curiosity Trail because there's no new book some people I've there's no new book some people I've there's no new book some people I've been waiting to interview for years I been waiting to interview for years I been waiting to interview for years I have like files of questions I just come have like files of questions I just come have like files of questions I just come up with uh in case I get a chance to up with uh in case I get a chance to up with uh in case I get a chance to interview with them uh and then other interview with them uh and then other interview with them uh and then other times chat GPT and I don't use it to times chat GPT and I don't use it to times chat GPT and I don't use it to like get it done in two minutes I use it like get it done in two minutes I use it like get it done in two minutes I use it because I'm like wow I never thought of because I'm like wow I never thought of because I'm like wow I never thought of that angle right never thought about that angle right never thought about that angle right never thought about that and so I'll say give me 25 that and so I'll say give me 25 that and so I'll say give me 25 questions in the style of sometimes I'll

questions in the style of sometimes I'll questions in the style of sometimes I'll I'll feed it different styles in the I'll feed it different styles in the I'll feed it different styles in the style of Tim Ferris and the style of RIT style of Tim Ferris and the style of RIT style of Tim Ferris and the style of RIT Sati and the style of you know Kate Sati and the style of you know Kate Sati and the style of you know Kate bowler whatever bowler whatever bowler whatever I'll I'll I'll do that that's cool and I'll I'll I'll do that that's cool and I'll I'll I'll do that that's cool and and then it'll be like oh yeah they and then it'll be like oh yeah they and then it'll be like oh yeah they would ask that kind of question that's a would ask that kind of question that's a would ask that kind of question that's a good question I'll reframe it in mind good question I'll reframe it in mind good question I'll reframe it in mind everyone else is doing it in the style everyone else is doing it in the style everyone else is doing it in the style of K newoff well there you go sometimes of K newoff well there you go sometimes of K newoff well there you go sometimes I do you can do it and you know I do you can do it and you know I do you can do it and you know sometimes I'm like oh yeah it's smarter sometimes I'm like oh yeah it's smarter sometimes I'm like oh yeah it's smarter than I am I forgot to ask that question than I am I forgot to ask that question than I am I forgot to ask that question that does sound like me Often by the oh that does sound like me Often by the oh that does sound like me Often by the oh yeah you got you got to train it because yeah you got you got to train it because yeah you got you got to train it because it doesn't sound like you get to write it doesn't sound like you get to write it doesn't sound like you get to write for you so anyway no but then Often by for you so anyway no but then Often by for you so anyway no but then Often by the time I'm done I'll send like 20 I the time I'm done I'll send like 20 I the time I'm done I'll send like 20 I just interviewed Ken Blanchard this year just interviewed Ken Blanchard this year just interviewed Ken Blanchard this year for the first time and he was really for the first time and he was really for the first time and he was really funny he's like 85 Right the dude is funny he's like 85 Right the dude is funny he's like 85 Right the dude is like first time I ever heard of him he I like first time I ever heard of him he I like first time I ever heard of him he I think I was at a uh a Willow Creek think I was at a uh a Willow Creek think I was at a uh a Willow Creek Leadership Summit or something and he sp Leadership Summit or something and he sp Leadership Summit or something and he sp there it was really cool yeah so the there it was really cool yeah so the there it was really cool yeah so the first thing as we're getting ready to first thing as we're getting ready to first thing as we're getting ready to record he's like so do you write any record he's like so do you write any record he's like so do you write any more questions like do you have more more questions like do you have more more questions like do you have more questions cuz you sent a lot of questions cuz you sent a lot of questions cuz you sent a lot of questions are you still writing questions are you still writing questions are you still writing questions he was just kind of joking questions he was just kind of joking questions he was just kind of joking around but it's like yeah I sent a lot around but it's like yeah I sent a lot around but it's like yeah I sent a lot of questions 20 to 25 but then some of questions 20 to 25 but then some of questions 20 to 25 but then some guests like Andy St wants his two weeks guests like Andy St wants his two weeks guests like Andy St wants his two weeks in advance other people are like I never in advance other people are like I never in advance other people are like I never even look does surprise me doesn't even even look does surprise me doesn't even even look does surprise me doesn't even look at him but just the style look at him but just the style look at him but just the style personality but think about it you're personality but think about it you're personality but think about it you're Andy Stanley yeah you got a lot going on Andy Stanley yeah you got a lot going on Andy Stanley yeah you got a lot going on well no no but yes and and you well no no but yes and and you well no no but yes and and you know why would he want to prepare to be know why would he want to prepare to be know why would he want to prepare to be on my show right at his stage of success

on my show right at his stage of success on my show right at his stage of success right but one of the reasons Andy is so right but one of the reasons Andy is so right but one of the reasons Andy is so successful is he wants the questions two successful is he wants the questions two successful is he wants the questions two weeks in advance he's going to think weeks in advance he's going to think weeks in advance he's going to think about them he wants to be prepared he about them he wants to be prepared he about them he wants to be prepared he wants to give you a great answer I'm wants to give you a great answer I'm wants to give you a great answer I'm like there's goals like what a what a like there's goals like what a what a like there's goals like what a what a great he wants to be great at everything great he wants to be great at everything great he wants to be great at everything he does not just good fantastic yeah he does not just good fantastic yeah he does not just good fantastic yeah exactly so you know I'm working on exactly so you know I'm working on exactly so you know I'm working on working on some big yes for the future working on some big yes for the future working on some big yes for the future so can't say all of them yeah that's so can't say all of them yeah that's so can't say all of them yeah that's exciting uh yeah so it's it's a exciting uh yeah so it's it's a exciting uh yeah so it's it's a combination of all of the above and I combination of all of the above and I combination of all of the above and I follow my intuition and I try to make follow my intuition and I try to make follow my intuition and I try to make the show interesting Carrie I just want the show interesting Carrie I just want the show interesting Carrie I just want to say uh it's been 10 years what a what to say uh it's been 10 years what a what to say uh it's been 10 years what a what first off what an honor to be an first off what an honor to be an first off what an honor to be an interviewer for you for your 10y year interviewer for you for your 10y year interviewer for you for your 10y year anniversary that's crazy so thank you anniversary that's crazy so thank you anniversary that's crazy so thank you for that because of our friendship but for that because of our friendship but for that because of our friendship but you have served us well as Leaders you you have served us well as Leaders you you have served us well as Leaders you have you have served us humbly uh I just have you have served us humbly uh I just have you have served us humbly uh I just respect your your life your family your respect your your life your family your respect your your life your family your leadership it's honestly and I'm looking leadership it's honestly and I'm looking leadership it's honestly and I'm looking forward to the next 10 years I'm sure forward to the next 10 years I'm sure forward to the next 10 years I'm sure all of you are looking for the next 10 all of you are looking for the next 10 all of you are looking for the next 10 years thank you for what you do this has years thank you for what you do this has years thank you for what you do this has been the krie newoff leadership podcast been the krie newoff leadership podcast been the krie newoff leadership podcast 10y year anniversary episode we have 10y year anniversary episode we have 10y year anniversary episode we have turned the mic on the master himself who turned the mic on the master himself who turned the mic on the master himself who has served us well we love you man thank has served us well we love you man thank has served us well we love you man thank you so much