Want to Reach The Next Generation? The New Rules of Cultural Influence with Ruslan KD

And this might be an uncomfortable And this might be an uncomfortable question and pastors may not like this question and pastors may not like this question and pastors may not like this is like is like is like >> if this is your first time if if you >> if this is your first time if if you >> if this is your first time if if you speaking out on the unborn or Charlie speaking out on the unborn or Charlie speaking out on the unborn or Charlie Kirk or whatever and I'm not trying to Kirk or whatever and I'm not trying to Kirk or whatever and I'm not trying to make all those moral equivalencies make all those moral equivalencies make all those moral equivalencies is the first time this has caused is the first time this has caused is the first time this has caused backlash. I would I would go why like backlash. I would I would go why like backlash. I would I would go why like why have you not spent more time talking why have you not spent more time talking why have you not spent more time talking about the the issues that are actually about the the issues that are actually about the the issues that are actually polarizing our society? polarizing our society? polarizing our society? >> Welcome to the Carrie Newhoff leadership >> Welcome to the Carrie Newhoff leadership >> Welcome to the Carrie Newhoff leadership podcast. I'm here today in studio with podcast. I'm here today in studio with podcast. I'm here today in studio with Ruland. A lot of you probably follow him Ruland. A lot of you probably follow him Ruland. A lot of you probably follow him on YouTube, Spotify. He has well, we're on YouTube, Spotify. He has well, we're on YouTube, Spotify. He has well, we're going to get into his story, but he has going to get into his story, but he has going to get into his story, but he has done hiphop, he's done music, he's done hiphop, he's done music, he's done hiphop, he's done music, he's [music] an artist, he's a pastor. He uh [music] an artist, he's a pastor. He uh [music] an artist, he's a pastor. He uh well, is an influencer. And we are going well, is an influencer. And we are going well, is an influencer. And we are going to talk [music] church trends today. So, to talk [music] church trends today. So, to talk [music] church trends today. So, Relin, thanks so much. And we're at your Relin, thanks so much. And we're at your Relin, thanks so much. And we're at your house. We're at your studio. This is We house. We're at your studio. This is We house. We're at your studio. This is We are are are >> Bless God. What? KD headquarters. World >> Bless God. What? KD headquarters. World >> Bless God. What? KD headquarters. World headquarters. headquarters. headquarters. >> Yeah. Bless God world headquarters. I am >> Yeah. Bless God world headquarters. I am >> Yeah. Bless God world headquarters. I am not a pastor for the record. I've never not a pastor for the record. I've never not a pastor for the record. I've never been ordained, but [music] been ordained, but [music] been ordained, but [music] I do aspire to someday be a lay elder at I do aspire to someday be a lay elder at I do aspire to someday be a lay elder at my church. So, we we might be working on my church. So, we we might be working on my church. So, we we might be working on that behind the scenes.

that behind the scenes. that behind the scenes. >> But this is what we're going to talk >> But this is what we're going to talk >> But this is what we're going to talk about, and I totally respect that. about, and I totally respect that. about, and I totally respect that. >> Um, and depending on the denomination, >> Um, and depending on the denomination, >> Um, and depending on the denomination, in some, you know, my background, in some, you know, my background, in some, you know, my background, pastoring was really controlled, pastoring was really controlled, pastoring was really controlled, >> but in many ways, you pastor a lot of >> but in many ways, you pastor a lot of >> but in many ways, you pastor a lot of people through your YouTube channel. Is people through your YouTube channel. Is people through your YouTube channel. Is that that that >> I think people will say it that way or >> I think people will say it that way or >> I think people will say it that way or they'll call me pastor at church, but I they'll call me pastor at church, but I they'll call me pastor at church, but I don't want to, you know, don't want to, you know, don't want to, you know, >> appreciate that. And and this is why I >> appreciate that. And and this is why I >> appreciate that. And and this is why I think as having a lot of pastor friends, think as having a lot of pastor friends, think as having a lot of pastor friends, >> right, >> right, >> right, >> I would say and I don't and and and I >> I would say and I don't and and and I >> I would say and I don't and and and I would say this is a parallel where I would say this is a parallel where I would say this is a parallel where I think there's there's levels to what we think there's there's levels to what we think there's there's levels to what we do here and I for example went um I'm do here and I for example went um I'm do here and I for example went um I'm trying to get my concealing carry trying to get my concealing carry trying to get my concealing carry >> and a while ago I had the opportunity to >> and a while ago I had the opportunity to >> and a while ago I had the opportunity to go shooting with some Navy Seals. go shooting with some Navy Seals. go shooting with some Navy Seals. >> Okay. and and I quickly discovered >> Okay. and and I quickly discovered >> Okay. and and I quickly discovered there's levels to this. [laughter] Okay. there's levels to this. [laughter] Okay. there's levels to this. [laughter] Okay. >> And uh there's levels >> And uh there's levels >> And uh there's levels >> and and so what I would say to me, >> and and so what I would say to me, >> and and so what I would say to me, pastors on the front lines are the Navy pastors on the front lines are the Navy pastors on the front lines are the Navy Seals of ministry. Seals of ministry. Seals of ministry. >> What what they're doing >> What what they're doing >> What what they're doing >> is way harder, uh way more strenuous.

>> is way harder, uh way more strenuous. >> is way harder, uh way more strenuous. They deal with way more criticism in They deal with way more criticism in They deal with way more criticism in real life. I get hate comments on that. real life. I get hate comments on that. real life. I get hate comments on that. You get comments. Yeah. You get comments. Yeah. You get comments. Yeah. >> Yeah. But it's it it does not compare. >> Yeah. But it's it it does not compare. >> Yeah. But it's it it does not compare. like I get to speak and then I get to like I get to speak and then I get to like I get to speak and then I get to pop into churches, speak on a Sunday and pop into churches, speak on a Sunday and pop into churches, speak on a Sunday and leave occasionally. Uh when you have to leave occasionally. Uh when you have to leave occasionally. Uh when you have to put together a talk, when you have to put together a talk, when you have to put together a talk, when you have to lead a staff, when you have to counsel lead a staff, when you have to counsel lead a staff, when you have to counsel people, marry and bury people, um that people, marry and bury people, um that people, marry and bury people, um that to me is the Navy Seal. So I don't I to me is the Navy Seal. So I don't I to me is the Navy Seal. So I don't I want to give honor where honors do is want to give honor where honors do is want to give honor where honors do is like the you guys doing it on the front like the you guys doing it on the front like the you guys doing it on the front lines, that's a that's a different level lines, that's a that's a different level lines, that's a that's a different level than what I get to do. I get I get to than what I get to do. I get I get to than what I get to do. I get I get to have some of those benefits without much have some of those benefits without much have some of those benefits without much of the weight that pastors carry. of the weight that pastors carry. of the weight that pastors carry. >> You know, you rais a really good point. >> You know, you rais a really good point. >> You know, you rais a really good point. We were talking about my audience before We were talking about my audience before We were talking about my audience before and it's everyone from people who lead and it's everyone from people who lead and it's everyone from people who lead mega churches to people who lead mega churches to people who lead mega churches to people who lead churches of, you know, a church plant churches of, you know, a church plant churches of, you know, a church plant with 14 people with 14 people with 14 people >> this Sunday. And >> this Sunday. And >> this Sunday. And >> it's hard work, man. It is so much >> it's hard work, man. It is so much >> it's hard work, man. It is so much easier to do what I do now easier to do what I do now easier to do what I do now >> than it was to lead a church for two >> than it was to lead a church for two >> than it was to lead a church for two decades and to be a local church pastor. decades and to be a local church pastor. decades and to be a local church pastor. So, we'll start there with a shout out So, we'll start there with a shout out So, we'll start there with a shout out because we want to get into some church because we want to get into some church because we want to get into some church trends and we want to talk about going trends and we want to talk about going trends and we want to talk about going direct. Like, how do you go directly direct. Like, how do you go directly direct. Like, how do you go directly >> to YouTube? What does that mean when >> to YouTube? What does that mean when >> to YouTube? What does that mean when your audience is out there not in the your audience is out there not in the your audience is out there not in the room? Because that's a trend that I've room? Because that's a trend that I've room? Because that's a trend that I've I've spotted. But before we get there, I I've spotted. But before we get there, I I've spotted. But before we get there, I want to just get a background on your want to just get a background on your want to just get a background on your story. I know number of our listeners story. I know number of our listeners story. I know number of our listeners will be familiar with you, but Rouselin, will be familiar with you, but Rouselin, will be familiar with you, but Rouselin, you're probably going to be brand new to you're probably going to be brand new to you're probably going to be brand new to a bunch of them who are listening. So, a bunch of them who are listening. So, a bunch of them who are listening. So, yeah. Um, yeah, tell us how it got yeah. Um, yeah, tell us how it got yeah. Um, yeah, tell us how it got started. It didn't start in America for started. It didn't start in America for started. It didn't start in America for you. It started out very differently.

you. It started out very differently. you. It started out very differently. >> Yeah, I I guess I'll start at the very, >> Yeah, I I guess I'll start at the very, >> Yeah, I I guess I'll start at the very, uh, beginning, if you will. Uh, I'm uh, beginning, if you will. Uh, I'm uh, beginning, if you will. Uh, I'm ethnically Armenian. Uh my mother ethnically Armenian. Uh my mother ethnically Armenian. Uh my mother married my father. My father's Armenian. married my father. My father's Armenian. married my father. My father's Armenian. My mother is adopted by an Armenian My mother is adopted by an Armenian My mother is adopted by an Armenian family. Uh but we were living in the family. Uh but we were living in the family. Uh but we were living in the Azarbajan, which is just uh east of Azarbajan, which is just uh east of Azarbajan, which is just uh east of Armenian. Armenian. Armenian. >> Now I know how to pronounce that Iran. >> Now I know how to pronounce that Iran. >> Now I know how to pronounce that Iran. Yeah. And uh long story short, bad Yeah. And uh long story short, bad Yeah. And uh long story short, bad management by the former Soviet Union, management by the former Soviet Union, management by the former Soviet Union, ethnic tensions between the Arz. There's ethnic tensions between the Arz. There's ethnic tensions between the Arz. There's this region in the middle of Azarbajan. this region in the middle of Azarbajan. this region in the middle of Azarbajan. It's Armenian uh called the Nabora It's Armenian uh called the Nabora It's Armenian uh called the Nabora Karabak region. So all kinds of just Karabak region. So all kinds of just Karabak region. So all kinds of just geopolitical issues. And so there geopolitical issues. And so there geopolitical issues. And so there happened a uh pilgrims of Baku in the happened a uh pilgrims of Baku in the happened a uh pilgrims of Baku in the late 80s and eventually over a million late 80s and eventually over a million late 80s and eventually over a million Armenians were displaced from the Armenians were displaced from the Armenians were displaced from the capital of Baku by the Rzies. Um about capital of Baku by the Rzies. Um about capital of Baku by the Rzies. Um about 500 people were killed and so we fled uh 500 people were killed and so we fled uh 500 people were killed and so we fled uh to America as refugees. Uh we we landed to America as refugees. Uh we we landed to America as refugees. Uh we we landed in America in ' 91 a couple months in America in ' 91 a couple months in America in ' 91 a couple months before the fall of communism before the fall of communism before the fall of communism >> and then subsequently my mother and my >> and then subsequently my mother and my >> and then subsequently my mother and my father split up father split up father split up >> and that was really hard for me. I was I >> and that was really hard for me. I was I >> and that was really hard for me. I was I was pretty close to my dad. Uh they was pretty close to my dad. Uh they was pretty close to my dad. Uh they split up. Now I'm growing up in a single split up. Now I'm growing up in a single split up. Now I'm growing up in a single parent household. My mom doesn't do well parent household. My mom doesn't do well parent household. My mom doesn't do well with adjusting to life, you know, in with adjusting to life, you know, in with adjusting to life, you know, in America. So, alcoholism, the whole bit.

America. So, alcoholism, the whole bit. America. So, alcoholism, the whole bit. And um yeah, long story short, I just And um yeah, long story short, I just And um yeah, long story short, I just have like a very tumultuous childhood. I have like a very tumultuous childhood. I have like a very tumultuous childhood. I experienced sexual assault. I um got experienced sexual assault. I um got experienced sexual assault. I um got into gangs, got into drugs, got arrested into gangs, got into drugs, got arrested into gangs, got into drugs, got arrested at the age of 11. at the age of 11. at the age of 11. >> And uh I had I all along the Lord kept >> And uh I had I all along the Lord kept >> And uh I had I all along the Lord kept sending people and planting seeds. And sending people and planting seeds. And sending people and planting seeds. And over time, those seeds uh were, you over time, those seeds uh were, you over time, those seeds uh were, you know, they took root. And the know, they took root. And the know, they took root. And the >> end of my freshman year of high school, >> end of my freshman year of high school, >> end of my freshman year of high school, met a girl. It's always a girl with with met a girl. It's always a girl with with met a girl. It's always a girl with with with our type. Uh and she ended up with our type. Uh and she ended up with our type. Uh and she ended up getting me just to go to church with getting me just to go to church with getting me just to go to church with her. Um her. Um her. Um >> it's kind of like a secret friendly >> it's kind of like a secret friendly >> it's kind of like a secret friendly attractional model church here in Vista attractional model church here in Vista attractional model church here in Vista Oceanside area. Um, I started going Oceanside area. Um, I started going Oceanside area. Um, I started going there, gave my life to the Lord, there, gave my life to the Lord, there, gave my life to the Lord, subsequently like still wrestled and subsequently like still wrestled and subsequently like still wrestled and kind of worked through all the kind of worked through all the kind of worked through all the apologetic stuff. And then, yeah, the apologetic stuff. And then, yeah, the apologetic stuff. And then, yeah, the end of my, uh, junior year, like fully end of my, uh, junior year, like fully end of my, uh, junior year, like fully surrendered, got into a small group, got surrendered, got into a small group, got surrendered, got into a small group, got plugged in, uh, started serving. Um, plugged in, uh, started serving. Um, plugged in, uh, started serving. Um, right after [clears throat] that, went right after [clears throat] that, went right after [clears throat] that, went and joined a small church plant and and joined a small church plant and and joined a small church plant and stayed at a church for 20 years. And, stayed at a church for 20 years. And, stayed at a church for 20 years. And, um, really am the byproduct of like the um, really am the byproduct of like the um, really am the byproduct of like the gospel transforming like the trajectory gospel transforming like the trajectory gospel transforming like the trajectory of my life had it not been for Jesus. uh of my life had it not been for Jesus. uh of my life had it not been for Jesus. uh would have been really dark.

would have been really dark. would have been really dark. >> You could predict it. >> You could predict it. >> You could predict it. >> Yeah. And I got and I got a lot of >> Yeah. And I got and I got a lot of >> Yeah. And I got and I got a lot of friends that, you know, spent their 20s friends that, you know, spent their 20s friends that, you know, spent their 20s in prison or or or still in prison, you in prison or or or still in prison, you in prison or or or still in prison, you know. Uh and yeah, the gospel message know. Uh and yeah, the gospel message know. Uh and yeah, the gospel message and then the local church and and then the local church and and then the local church and specifically like life on life in the specifically like life on life in the specifically like life on life in the local church, like coming from poverty, local church, like coming from poverty, local church, like coming from poverty, coming from trauma, and then having coming from trauma, and then having coming from trauma, and then having access to men who could pour into me, access to men who could pour into me, access to men who could pour into me, who could be father figures to me, who who could be father figures to me, who who could be father figures to me, who could disciple me, who could mentor me could disciple me, who could mentor me could disciple me, who could mentor me was was really huge in my development. was was really huge in my development. was was really huge in my development. Um and then yeah, got married 2008. Um and then yeah, got married 2008. Um and then yeah, got married 2008. We've been married uh be 17 years. Got We've been married uh be 17 years. Got We've been married uh be 17 years. Got uh three kids. We just had a baby four uh three kids. We just had a baby four uh three kids. We just had a baby four weeks ago at weeks ago at weeks ago at >> Yeah. Yeah. I think we were texting when >> Yeah. Yeah. I think we were texting when >> Yeah. Yeah. I think we were texting when you're like, "I'm gonna be a dad." you're like, "I'm gonna be a dad." you're like, "I'm gonna be a dad." >> Yeah. Yeah. So, Luke is our newest >> Yeah. Yeah. So, Luke is our newest >> Yeah. Yeah. So, Luke is our newest addition to the family. He's awesome. addition to the family. He's awesome. addition to the family. He's awesome. Yeah. A surprise baby. We weren't Yeah. A surprise baby. We weren't Yeah. A surprise baby. We weren't planning on it. [laughter] planning on it. [laughter] planning on it. [laughter] >> Yeah. And then Yeah. I got a 11-year-old >> Yeah. And then Yeah. I got a 11-year-old >> Yeah. And then Yeah. I got a 11-year-old named Levi and a four-year-old named named Levi and a four-year-old named named Levi and a four-year-old named Zoe. Yep. Zoe. Yep. Zoe. Yep. >> That's great. So, was were your parents >> That's great. So, was were your parents >> That's great. So, was were your parents religious at all? religious at all? religious at all? >> No. No. >> No. No. >> No. No. >> Um Well, you know, under communism, you >> Um Well, you know, under communism, you >> Um Well, you know, under communism, you it was illegal. It was It was It was it was illegal. It was It was It was it was illegal. It was It was It was more or less illegal. And so it's it's more or less illegal. And so it's it's more or less illegal. And so it's it's sad when you think about it because you sad when you think about it because you sad when you think about it because you have Armenians who have this deep ethnic have Armenians who have this deep ethnic have Armenians who have this deep ethnic connection to Christianity, you know, uh connection to Christianity, you know, uh connection to Christianity, you know, uh if you're Armenian, you're Christian. If if you're Armenian, you're Christian. If if you're Armenian, you're Christian. If you're Christian, you can't not be, you you're Christian, you can't not be, you you're Christian, you can't not be, you know, uh representing your faith. Now, know, uh representing your faith. Now, know, uh representing your faith. Now, it's it's it's it's different, right, it's it's it's it's different, right, it's it's it's it's different, right, with the Armenian Orthodox Church. But with the Armenian Orthodox Church. But with the Armenian Orthodox Church. But we didn't go to church for the first we didn't go to church for the first we didn't go to church for the first time until or at least that my time until or at least that my time until or at least that my recollection until we came to America recollection until we came to America recollection until we came to America and uh became a part of the Armenian and uh became a part of the Armenian and uh became a part of the Armenian Apostolic Church. Y Apostolic Church. Y Apostolic Church. Y >> and so then pick up the journey to what >> and so then pick up the journey to what >> and so then pick up the journey to what you're doing today full-time. you and I you're doing today full-time. you and I you're doing today full-time. you and I were uh saying, "Yeah, how did this were uh saying, "Yeah, how did this were uh saying, "Yeah, how did this become our lives?" Right? Like this is become our lives?" Right? Like this is become our lives?" Right? Like this is this is a really interesting job

this is a really interesting job this is a really interesting job description. I'm sure description. I'm sure description. I'm sure >> you know when you gave your life to >> you know when you gave your life to >> you know when you gave your life to Christ, it's like what are you going to Christ, it's like what are you going to Christ, it's like what are you going to be doing, you know, a few years down the be doing, you know, a few years down the be doing, you know, a few years down the road? You never thought, oh, I'm going road? You never thought, oh, I'm going road? You never thought, oh, I'm going to be doing this. So, you got into the to be doing this. So, you got into the to be doing this. So, you got into the arts, right? arts, right? arts, right? >> Yeah. I ended up going uh to Mar Costa >> Yeah. I ended up going uh to Mar Costa >> Yeah. I ended up going uh to Mar Costa College, community college, great College, community college, great College, community college, great college out here, learning recording, college out here, learning recording, college out here, learning recording, engineering, and and music. That was engineering, and and music. That was engineering, and and music. That was primarily what I was aspiring to do. uh primarily what I was aspiring to do. uh primarily what I was aspiring to do. uh transferred to Cal San Marcos, got kind transferred to Cal San Marcos, got kind transferred to Cal San Marcos, got kind of connected to media and I basically of connected to media and I basically of connected to media and I basically learned video because I wanted to edit learned video because I wanted to edit learned video because I wanted to edit my own music videos. This is very early. my own music videos. This is very early. my own music videos. This is very early. It's like 2009, 2010. It's like 2009, 2010. It's like 2009, 2010. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, I knew as a as an artist I >> Yeah. So, I knew as a as an artist I >> Yeah. So, I knew as a as an artist I could have an edge by having music could have an edge by having music could have an edge by having music videos on YouTube and I could make music videos on YouTube and I could make music videos on YouTube and I could make music and mix music and then I discovered that and mix music and then I discovered that and mix music and then I discovered that it's not that different to edit. So, I it's not that different to edit. So, I it's not that different to edit. So, I started editing video first, like 2010, started editing video first, like 2010, started editing video first, like 2010, 2011. And then my buddy, who was our 2011. And then my buddy, who was our 2011. And then my buddy, who was our youth pastor at the time, was like, youth pastor at the time, was like, youth pastor at the time, was like, "Hey, man." Talk about church trends. "Hey, man." Talk about church trends. "Hey, man." Talk about church trends. Yeah. Um, Yeah. Um, Yeah. Um, >> video announcements. >> video announcements. >> video announcements. >> Oh, cool. Yeah, that was new. >> Oh, cool. Yeah, that was new. >> Oh, cool. Yeah, that was new. >> Shout out Brady Shear back in the day.

>> Shout out Brady Shear back in the day. >> Shout out Brady Shear back in the day. Back in the day. Back in the day. Back in the day. >> He's like, "Dude, >> He's like, "Dude, >> He's like, "Dude, >> video announcements." And I'm like, >> video announcements." And I'm like, >> video announcements." And I'm like, "What are those?" And he like explained "What are those?" And he like explained "What are those?" And he like explained them to me and he's like, "This is what them to me and he's like, "This is what them to me and he's like, "This is what we're going to do. We're going to take we're going to do. We're going to take we're going to do. We're going to take your your your Canon T2i. we're gonna your your your Canon T2i. we're gonna your your your Canon T2i. we're gonna shoot some mock video announcements and shoot some mock video announcements and shoot some mock video announcements and we're gonna we're gonna get you a job at we're gonna we're gonna get you a job at we're gonna we're gonna get you a job at the church. And at the time I was the church. And at the time I was the church. And at the time I was working with adults with developmental working with adults with developmental working with adults with developmental disabilities. Uh just kind of trying to disabilities. Uh just kind of trying to disabilities. Uh just kind of trying to scrape by getting the music off the scrape by getting the music off the scrape by getting the music off the ground. And I ended up getting a job at ground. And I ended up getting a job at ground. And I ended up getting a job at my church as the media director. Uh I my church as the media director. Uh I my church as the media director. Uh I was on a preaching team and so this was was on a preaching team and so this was was on a preaching team and so this was 2013 to 2015. And boy was that a great 2013 to 2015. And boy was that a great 2013 to 2015. And boy was that a great boot camp for what I'm doing now. boot camp for what I'm doing now. boot camp for what I'm doing now. Meaning Meaning Meaning >> how so? >> how so? >> how so? >> Well, I was on a preaching team. So I >> Well, I was on a preaching team. So I >> Well, I was on a preaching team. So I had to put together talks. I was also had to put together talks. I was also had to put together talks. I was also overseeing the young adults. overseeing the young adults. overseeing the young adults. >> I was overseeing cameras. I was learning >> I was overseeing cameras. I was learning >> I was overseeing cameras. I was learning about video switchers. I was learning about video switchers. I was learning about video switchers. I was learning about lighting. I was learning about about lighting. I was learning about about lighting. I was learning about microphones. I was learning all of it. microphones. I was learning all of it. microphones. I was learning all of it. And I was producing the Sunday morning And I was producing the Sunday morning And I was producing the Sunday morning event basically, right? Uh event basically, right? Uh event basically, right? Uh >> and getting everything uploaded to >> and getting everything uploaded to >> and getting everything uploaded to YouTube and getting uploaded to the uh YouTube and getting uploaded to the uh YouTube and getting uploaded to the uh Subsplash app. I think that's what it Subsplash app. I think that's what it Subsplash app. I think that's what it was called. was called. was called. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, I was I was over all of that. >> Yeah. So, I was I was over all of that. >> Yeah. So, I was I was over all of that. It was a lot, but man, it was a great It was a lot, but man, it was a great It was a lot, but man, it was a great boot camp for for that sort of stuff.

boot camp for for that sort of stuff. boot camp for for that sort of stuff. And so, like I'm I'm a like I'm And so, like I'm I'm a like I'm And so, like I'm I'm a like I'm literally a byproduct of the local literally a byproduct of the local literally a byproduct of the local church. It's so funny, just to interject church. It's so funny, just to interject church. It's so funny, just to interject for a quick second. That's exactly we for a quick second. That's exactly we for a quick second. That's exactly we launched in ' 07 launched in ' 07 launched in ' 07 >> and I hired a 21-year-old really good >> and I hired a 21-year-old really good >> and I hired a 21-year-old really good personal friend, personal friend, personal friend, >> had just graduated with a degree in >> had just graduated with a degree in >> had just graduated with a degree in audio mixing, like went to a school, audio mixing, like went to a school, audio mixing, like went to a school, learned how to mix records, that kind of learned how to mix records, that kind of learned how to mix records, that kind of stuff, audio, stuff, audio, stuff, audio, >> and he was the most tech guy I knew. And >> and he was the most tech guy I knew. And >> and he was the most tech guy I knew. And we were building like a video church. we were building like a video church. we were building like a video church. And I'm like, I just need you to And I'm like, I just need you to And I'm like, I just need you to >> lead this. And he built our whole video >> lead this. And he built our whole video >> lead this. And he built our whole video campus and everything. And interestingly campus and everything. And interestingly campus and everything. And interestingly enough, he left a couple years ago. He's enough, he left a couple years ago. He's enough, he left a couple years ago. He's now a full-time coffee influencer online now a full-time coffee influencer online now a full-time coffee influencer online guy. But you're right, that was the guy. But you're right, that was the guy. But you're right, that was the training ground for him. I mean, it was training ground for him. I mean, it was training ground for him. I mean, it was a mission and a calling for him for many a mission and a calling for him for many a mission and a calling for him for many many years. But it's funny how many years. But it's funny how many years. But it's funny how >> church is more techy than a lot of >> church is more techy than a lot of >> church is more techy than a lot of businesses are. businesses are. businesses are. >> Yeah. Well, you you think about it like >> Yeah. Well, you you think about it like >> Yeah. Well, you you think about it like kid from poverty, kid from poverty, kid from poverty, >> not a lot of access to technology, can't >> not a lot of access to technology, can't >> not a lot of access to technology, can't afford this stuff. afford this stuff. afford this stuff. >> Yeah. Can't afford this stuff. And then >> Yeah. Can't afford this stuff. And then >> Yeah. Can't afford this stuff. And then when I even after I transitioned off, when I even after I transitioned off, when I even after I transitioned off, they let me borrow a $5,000 video they let me borrow a $5,000 video they let me borrow a $5,000 video switcher, plug it in, and like start switcher, plug it in, and like start switcher, plug it in, and like start cutting live in my little studio cutting live in my little studio cutting live in my little studio >> and just were like, "Yeah, sure. You can >> and just were like, "Yeah, sure. You can >> and just were like, "Yeah, sure. You can borrow this thing." You know, they had borrow this thing." You know, they had borrow this thing." You know, they had gotten a different one. And so I had gotten a different one. And so I had gotten a different one. And so I had this video switcher and and that's kind this video switcher and and that's kind this video switcher and and that's kind of how I started cutting different of how I started cutting different of how I started cutting different cameras, which eliminated the need to cameras, which eliminated the need to cameras, which eliminated the need to edit, which eliminated uh the friction edit, which eliminated uh the friction edit, which eliminated uh the friction of getting videos out. And all of that of getting videos out. And all of that of getting videos out. And all of that helped with getting the YouTube off the helped with getting the YouTube off the helped with getting the YouTube off the ground initially. And yeah, it was it ground initially. And yeah, it was it ground initially. And yeah, it was it was it was really interesting to to be

was it was really interesting to to be was it was really interesting to to be in ministry. And so, long story short, in ministry. And so, long story short, in ministry. And so, long story short, after 2 years, the music started taking after 2 years, the music started taking after 2 years, the music started taking off. And I was like, hey, I can't keep I off. And I was like, hey, I can't keep I off. And I was like, hey, I can't keep I can't keep being gone, you know, one or can't keep being gone, you know, one or can't keep being gone, you know, one or two weekends a month while I have all two weekends a month while I have all two weekends a month while I have all these responsibilities. And so, I ended these responsibilities. And so, I ended these responsibilities. And so, I ended up putting in a twoe notice, up putting in a twoe notice, up putting in a twoe notice, transitioning. And uh June 1st, 2015 was transitioning. And uh June 1st, 2015 was transitioning. And uh June 1st, 2015 was my first day as a full-time my first day as a full-time my first day as a full-time entrepreneur, rapper, whatever you want entrepreneur, rapper, whatever you want entrepreneur, rapper, whatever you want to call it. to call it. to call it. >> And I started leaning into YouTube. I >> And I started leaning into YouTube. I >> And I started leaning into YouTube. I did a vlog series. This is when Casey did a vlog series. This is when Casey did a vlog series. This is when Casey Neistat was super popular. Yeah. So it Neistat was super popular. Yeah. So it Neistat was super popular. Yeah. So it was my days as a full-time rapper. Those was my days as a full-time rapper. Those was my days as a full-time rapper. Those are still up. I I re-uploaded them on my are still up. I I re-uploaded them on my are still up. I I re-uploaded them on my channel. Yeah. And so it's like I had channel. Yeah. And so it's like I had channel. Yeah. And so it's like I had all this extra time when I'm not all this extra time when I'm not all this extra time when I'm not touring, touring, touring, >> started documenting, went from that to >> started documenting, went from that to >> started documenting, went from that to talking head videos. Initially, it was talking head videos. Initially, it was talking head videos. Initially, it was more like advice to other Christian more like advice to other Christian more like advice to other Christian rappers. It was like, "Hey, I made it rappers. It was like, "Hey, I made it rappers. It was like, "Hey, I made it quote unquote to to sustain myself off quote unquote to to sustain myself off quote unquote to to sustain myself off of my artistry. Let me give marketing of my artistry. Let me give marketing of my artistry. Let me give marketing advice. Let me give life advice to other advice. Let me give life advice to other advice. Let me give life advice to other aspiring artists and rappers. Very small aspiring artists and rappers. Very small aspiring artists and rappers. Very small niche. Didn't want to be a Christian niche. Didn't want to be a Christian niche. Didn't want to be a Christian YouTuber, per se." I was like, "Hey, I'm YouTuber, per se." I was like, "Hey, I'm YouTuber, per se." I was like, "Hey, I'm just want to do my music thing." And, just want to do my music thing." And, just want to do my music thing." And, you know, I'll just share what I'm you know, I'll just share what I'm you know, I'll just share what I'm learning with other people and hopefully learning with other people and hopefully learning with other people and hopefully that helps people. And then slowly what that helps people. And then slowly what that helps people. And then slowly what started happening is I started doing started happening is I started doing started happening is I started doing live streams of music reviews. So, we live streams of music reviews. So, we live streams of music reviews. So, we had a small community of a couple had a small community of a couple had a small community of a couple hundred people that like wanted to know hundred people that like wanted to know hundred people that like wanted to know what I thought about their music. This what I thought about their music. This what I thought about their music. This is 2018, 2019.

is 2018, 2019. is 2018, 2019. >> Uh started doing live streams and then >> Uh started doing live streams and then >> Uh started doing live streams and then people just started asking me other people just started asking me other people just started asking me other questions about theology, about this questions about theology, about this questions about theology, about this current event, about this thing, and current event, about this thing, and current event, about this thing, and what do you think about this? And I just what do you think about this? And I just what do you think about this? And I just started answering the questions. And I started answering the questions. And I started answering the questions. And I thought, well, let me let me try thought, well, let me let me try thought, well, let me let me try clipping one of these up. Let me try clipping one of these up. Let me try clipping one of these up. Let me try taking something that people are asking taking something that people are asking taking something that people are asking me, clip it up, and throw it on YouTube me, clip it up, and throw it on YouTube me, clip it up, and throw it on YouTube and see what happens. And then surely and see what happens. And then surely and see what happens. And then surely enough, the the thing I had done the enough, the the thing I had done the enough, the the thing I had done the longest, which is lead Bible studies, longest, which is lead Bible studies, longest, which is lead Bible studies, communicate scripture, theology, ideas communicate scripture, theology, ideas communicate scripture, theology, ideas like that within tech, like that is the like that within tech, like that is the like that within tech, like that is the thing that kind of exploded the most. thing that kind of exploded the most. thing that kind of exploded the most. And so I went from trying to do And so I went from trying to do And so I went from trying to do marketing videos to like the Christian marketing videos to like the Christian marketing videos to like the Christian version of Gary Vee to like, okay, I version of Gary Vee to like, okay, I version of Gary Vee to like, okay, I guess I'm going to talk about my faith guess I'm going to talk about my faith guess I'm going to talk about my faith because that's what people are asking because that's what people are asking because that's what people are asking for. for. for. >> Interesting. So you you kept pivoting >> Interesting. So you you kept pivoting >> Interesting. So you you kept pivoting your business model as you went along. your business model as you went along. your business model as you went along. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Definitely. I mean, at at the time, I I Definitely. I mean, at at the time, I I Definitely. I mean, at at the time, I I honestly thought like being a Christian honestly thought like being a Christian honestly thought like being a Christian influencer was cringey. Like, I was influencer was cringey. Like, I was influencer was cringey. Like, I was like, I don't want to be like this weird like, I don't want to be like this weird like, I don't want to be like this weird like you're not a pastor, but you're not like you're not a pastor, but you're not like you're not a pastor, but you're not just an in like I'd rather just be a guy just an in like I'd rather just be a guy just an in like I'd rather just be a guy that's on YouTube and do my artist that's on YouTube and do my artist that's on YouTube and do my artist thing. Yeah. thing. Yeah. thing. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, you know, the thing about that >> Yeah. So, you know, the thing about that >> Yeah. So, you know, the thing about that is, you know, both of us are doing jobs is, you know, both of us are doing jobs is, you know, both of us are doing jobs that didn't exist 10 years ago, that didn't exist 10 years ago, that didn't exist 10 years ago, >> right? Which is really interesting. If >> right? Which is really interesting. If >> right? Which is really interesting. If somebody if you're literally the 30 somebody if you're literally the 30 somebody if you're literally the 30 secondond elevator riding up, riding secondond elevator riding up, riding secondond elevator riding up, riding down with somebody and they're like, down with somebody and they're like, down with somebody and they're like, what do you do? What do you tell them? I what do you do? What do you tell them? I what do you do? What do you tell them? I say I do YouTube. Yeah. YouTube and say I do YouTube. Yeah. YouTube and say I do YouTube. Yeah. YouTube and podcasting. And then they usually say, podcasting. And then they usually say, podcasting. And then they usually say, "Well, what do you what do you talk "Well, what do you what do you talk "Well, what do you what do you talk about?" And I go, "Faith and God and about?" And I go, "Faith and God and about?" And I go, "Faith and God and current events and stuff like that." And current events and stuff like that." And current events and stuff like that." And they go, "Oh, interesting.

they go, "Oh, interesting. they go, "Oh, interesting. >> Cool. Cool." So, the music part kind of >> Cool. Cool." So, the music part kind of >> Cool. Cool." So, the music part kind of faded away for the most part. faded away for the most part. faded away for the most part. >> Yeah. You know, it's it's really it's >> Yeah. You know, it's it's really it's >> Yeah. You know, it's it's really it's really hard because I love music. Um I really hard because I love music. Um I really hard because I love music. Um I >> enjoy making music. The carving out time >> enjoy making music. The carving out time >> enjoy making music. The carving out time to consistently not just make music, but to consistently not just make music, but to consistently not just make music, but market the music is difficult. So, what market the music is difficult. So, what market the music is difficult. So, what I'm actually going to be doing, I'm I'm actually going to be doing, I'm I'm actually going to be doing, I'm going on tour in the spring, which is going on tour in the spring, which is going on tour in the spring, which is this is kind of new, and I'm putting this is kind of new, and I'm putting this is kind of new, and I'm putting together a I'm not putting together, I together a I'm not putting together, I together a I'm not putting together, I got an agency that's working with me got an agency that's working with me got an agency that's working with me where we're doing like House of Blues in where we're doing like House of Blues in where we're doing like House of Blues in Houston March 21st. I saw that Houston March 21st. I saw that Houston March 21st. I saw that >> Dallas uh Yeah. Sony Music Hall. These >> Dallas uh Yeah. Sony Music Hall. These >> Dallas uh Yeah. Sony Music Hall. These are iconic venues. And so what I'm are iconic venues. And so what I'm are iconic venues. And so what I'm attempt is the big dream is if I can go attempt is the big dream is if I can go attempt is the big dream is if I can go in and I could put together my godly in and I could put together my godly in and I could put together my godly ambition talk take that sprinkle in some ambition talk take that sprinkle in some ambition talk take that sprinkle in some of my old music and new music and then of my old music and new music and then of my old music and new music and then I'm also working on like I'm also working on like I'm also working on like creating my origin story in a very tight creating my origin story in a very tight creating my origin story in a very tight uh almost comedy format. So it would be uh almost comedy format. So it would be uh almost comedy format. So it would be almost like a performance little bit of almost like a performance little bit of almost like a performance little bit of comedy with a talk trying to drive comedy with a talk trying to drive comedy with a talk trying to drive people to the to the ethos of godly people to the to the ethos of godly people to the to the ethos of godly ambition. that that's the the the dream.

ambition. that that's the the the dream. ambition. that that's the the the dream. So, I have somebody actually coming in So, I have somebody actually coming in So, I have somebody actually coming in tomorrow that's helping me write on some tomorrow that's helping me write on some tomorrow that's helping me write on some of this stuff and and trying to really of this stuff and and trying to really of this stuff and and trying to really flesh it out. flesh it out. flesh it out. >> So, it's kind of like a night with an >> So, it's kind of like a night with an >> So, it's kind of like a night with an evening with Yeah. evening with Yeah. evening with Yeah. >> Yeah. And then after I do that, then >> Yeah. And then after I do that, then >> Yeah. And then after I do that, then we'll sit down and I might have a guest we'll sit down and I might have a guest we'll sit down and I might have a guest and I'll sit down and I'll have a and I'll sit down and I'll have a and I'll sit down and I'll have a conversation sitting down with the conversation sitting down with the conversation sitting down with the audience, take their questions, hang out audience, take their questions, hang out audience, take their questions, hang out with them, just like that. Yeah. with them, just like that. Yeah. with them, just like that. Yeah. >> So, here's what's fun. I'm so glad you >> So, here's what's fun. I'm so glad you >> So, here's what's fun. I'm so glad you told us that story. told us that story. told us that story. >> You're inventing categories >> You're inventing categories >> You're inventing categories >> as they go. And that's one of the trends >> as they go. And that's one of the trends >> as they go. And that's one of the trends I identified. Like if you think about I identified. Like if you think about I identified. Like if you think about >> the way a lot of churches use social >> the way a lot of churches use social >> the way a lot of churches use social media, right? They've got gear just like media, right? They've got gear just like media, right? They've got gear just like this. Like even smaller churches now this. Like even smaller churches now this. Like even smaller churches now have a lot of great gear and you know have a lot of great gear and you know have a lot of great gear and you know they know how to use it but it's all they know how to use it but it's all they know how to use it but it's all programmed around Sunday morning, right? programmed around Sunday morning, right? programmed around Sunday morning, right? [clears throat] The message, the music [clears throat] The message, the music [clears throat] The message, the music >> and then most churches social media is a >> and then most churches social media is a >> and then most churches social media is a repeat of what happened on Sunday. repeat of what happened on Sunday. repeat of what happened on Sunday. >> Back in CO we were direct to camera have >> Back in CO we were direct to camera have >> Back in CO we were direct to camera have a direct conversation look directly in a direct conversation look directly in a direct conversation look directly in the lens as soon as the doors were open the lens as soon as the doors were open the lens as soon as the doors were open again. Mhm. again. Mhm. again. Mhm. >> That was over. And I kind of flagged >> That was over. And I kind of flagged >> That was over. And I kind of flagged this as a trend because I noticed with this as a trend because I noticed with this as a trend because I noticed with like you with Bryce Crawford, Wes Huff, like you with Bryce Crawford, Wes Huff, like you with Bryce Crawford, Wes Huff, who I think you know well and you're who I think you know well and you're who I think you know well and you're doing some collabs with doing some collabs with doing some collabs with >> they're going straight to the camera >> they're going straight to the camera >> they're going straight to the camera >> and they're not bypassing the church >> and they're not bypassing the church >> and they're not bypassing the church because they're they're involved in the because they're they're involved in the because they're they're involved in the church. It's not like, "Yeah, we're done church. It's not like, "Yeah, we're done church. It's not like, "Yeah, we're done with church." You're not done with with church." You're not done with with church." You're not done with church at all. You got a local church.

church at all. You got a local church. church at all. You got a local church. Wes has a local church, etc., etc. But Wes has a local church, etc., etc. But Wes has a local church, etc., etc. But >> here's the thing. >> here's the thing. >> here's the thing. >> Your ministry is direct to camera. Sadi >> Your ministry is direct to camera. Sadi >> Your ministry is direct to camera. Sadi Roberts and Huff and I mean that started Roberts and Huff and I mean that started Roberts and Huff and I mean that started with like Beth Beth Moore with like Beth Beth Moore with like Beth Beth Moore >> did that she had to go direct to books >> did that she had to go direct to books >> did that she had to go direct to books and everything and Lisa Turkers has done and everything and Lisa Turkers has done and everything and Lisa Turkers has done that and Vos Camp, but now we have this that and Vos Camp, but now we have this that and Vos Camp, but now we have this new generation that's going directly new generation that's going directly new generation that's going directly >> onto video and I'm just really curious >> onto video and I'm just really curious >> onto video and I'm just really curious what do we do with that? what do we do with that? what do we do with that? >> Like because I think I think in a lot of >> Like because I think I think in a lot of >> Like because I think I think in a lot of churches what happens is a pastor comes churches what happens is a pastor comes churches what happens is a pastor comes up and says Rus so glad you're here like up and says Rus so glad you're here like up and says Rus so glad you're here like you got this big YouTube channel. Can you got this big YouTube channel. Can you got this big YouTube channel. Can you run the soundboard on Sunday you run the soundboard on Sunday you run the soundboard on Sunday morning? Mhm. Mhm. morning? Mhm. Mhm. morning? Mhm. Mhm. >> Which you might be willing to do. >> Which you might be willing to do. >> Which you might be willing to do. >> Or could you park cars? >> Or could you park cars? >> Or could you park cars? >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> I [clears throat] I'd love you to think >> I [clears throat] I'd love you to think >> I [clears throat] I'd love you to think about like when you see what's really about like when you see what's really about like when you see what's really gaining momentum online. gaining momentum online. gaining momentum online. >> What is Let's start with this. What does >> What is Let's start with this. What does >> What is Let's start with this. What does a church have to learn a church have to learn a church have to learn >> from people like you who are going >> from people like you who are going >> from people like you who are going direct to YouTube? direct to YouTube? direct to YouTube? >> That's such a great question. Um >> That's such a great question. Um >> That's such a great question. Um >> Excuse me. >> Excuse me. >> Excuse me. >> Well, yeah. Again, let me let me just >> Well, yeah. Again, let me let me just >> Well, yeah. Again, let me let me just say that I I love the local church. I'm say that I I love the local church. I'm say that I I love the local church. I'm very active in my local church. Rhythm very active in my local church. Rhythm very active in my local church. Rhythm church in Oceanside. people know um church in Oceanside. people know um church in Oceanside. people know um >> that that I attend there which was >> that that I attend there which was >> that that I attend there which was planted by your friend uh Larry Osborne, planted by your friend uh Larry Osborne, planted by your friend uh Larry Osborne, Chris Brown, North Coast Church planted Chris Brown, North Coast Church planted Chris Brown, North Coast Church planted us in 2020. So all props to to North us in 2020. So all props to to North us in 2020. So all props to to North Coast Coast Coast >> uh who really supported us early on. Um >> uh who really supported us early on. Um >> uh who really supported us early on. Um >> yeah, so man, what can Okay, so one of >> yeah, so man, what can Okay, so one of >> yeah, so man, what can Okay, so one of the things I I tell a lot of pastors and the things I I tell a lot of pastors and the things I I tell a lot of pastors and my my pastor by the grace of God, Jeff my my pastor by the grace of God, Jeff my my pastor by the grace of God, Jeff Moores, is amazing. Uh we do a podcast Moores, is amazing. Uh we do a podcast Moores, is amazing. Uh we do a podcast every week. He he calls it u if I had every week. He he calls it u if I had every week. He he calls it u if I had more time. M this is everything that

more time. M this is everything that more time. M this is everything that didn't make it into the Sunday morning didn't make it into the Sunday morning didn't make it into the Sunday morning talk cuz most pastors are what they're talk cuz most pastors are what they're talk cuz most pastors are what they're overpreparing. They have a lot of overpreparing. They have a lot of overpreparing. They have a lot of content that they wish they could have content that they wish they could have content that they wish they could have got. got. got. >> Hopefully there's stuff on the cutting >> Hopefully there's stuff on the cutting >> Hopefully there's stuff on the cutting room floor. room floor. room floor. >> Yeah. Yeah. And for me, hey, you have >> Yeah. Yeah. And for me, hey, you have >> Yeah. Yeah. And for me, hey, you have other stuff and and there are felt needs other stuff and and there are felt needs other stuff and and there are felt needs in the church. Like people do care about in the church. Like people do care about in the church. Like people do care about what's happening. If you can connect the what's happening. If you can connect the what's happening. If you can connect the dots between what is the conversation on dots between what is the conversation on dots between what is the conversation on the ground and what is the stuff you're the ground and what is the stuff you're the ground and what is the stuff you're speaking into, I think there's a huge speaking into, I think there's a huge speaking into, I think there's a huge opportunity for pastors to have their opportunity for pastors to have their opportunity for pastors to have their own podcast and go directly to consumer own podcast and go directly to consumer own podcast and go directly to consumer >> and and but but it start as a supplement >> and and but but it start as a supplement >> and and but but it start as a supplement to Sunday morning. So we're not trying to Sunday morning. So we're not trying to Sunday morning. So we're not trying to go and be influencers. We're just to go and be influencers. We're just to go and be influencers. We're just saying, "Hey guys, saying, "Hey guys, saying, "Hey guys, >> because we want to serve our local >> because we want to serve our local >> because we want to serve our local church, we have these other resources church, we have these other resources church, we have these other resources for you. Sunday morning extension of for you. Sunday morning extension of for you. Sunday morning extension of Sunday morning Monday morning podcast to Sunday morning Monday morning podcast to Sunday morning Monday morning podcast to follow up. Uh and so that's what we're follow up. Uh and so that's what we're follow up. Uh and so that's what we're doing that it's been successful. I want doing that it's been successful. I want doing that it's been successful. I want to say this is similar to like Josh to say this is similar to like Josh to say this is similar to like Josh Howard and what he's doing is you have Howard and what he's doing is you have Howard and what he's doing is you have these podcasts and you're really just these podcasts and you're really just these podcasts and you're really just starting and saying I just want to serve starting and saying I just want to serve starting and saying I just want to serve our body our body our body >> and then if God breathes on it and >> and then if God breathes on it and >> and then if God breathes on it and expands beyond that, praise God, right?

expands beyond that, praise God, right? expands beyond that, praise God, right? Pastor Ed Newton is doing this as well. Pastor Ed Newton is doing this as well. Pastor Ed Newton is doing this as well. Uh Uh Uh >> Josh and Ed are great examples. >> Josh and Ed are great examples. >> Josh and Ed are great examples. >> Great examples. And so I I think one >> Great examples. And so I I think one >> Great examples. And so I I think one just doing that. Uh, two, I think this just doing that. Uh, two, I think this just doing that. Uh, two, I think this generation generation generation needs needs needs current events, what's happening current events, what's happening current events, what's happening contextualized, right? There's a lot of contextualized, right? There's a lot of contextualized, right? There's a lot of pastors uh, that caught a lot of a lot, pastors uh, that caught a lot of a lot, pastors uh, that caught a lot of a lot, I would say, a lot of strays, pastors I would say, a lot of strays, pastors I would say, a lot of strays, pastors who didn't say enough about Charlie Kirk who didn't say enough about Charlie Kirk who didn't say enough about Charlie Kirk on Sunday morning or didn't say anything on Sunday morning or didn't say anything on Sunday morning or didn't say anything and pastors who maybe said too much and and pastors who maybe said too much and and pastors who maybe said too much and then they scared away people from there then they scared away people from there then they scared away people from there and what what are we this white and what what are we this white and what what are we this white Christian nationalist church now and Christian nationalist church now and Christian nationalist church now and what is that? And so, but I think young what is that? And so, but I think young what is that? And so, but I think young people like they they want to know and people like they they want to know and people like they they want to know and connect the dots, right? And so, I think connect the dots, right? And so, I think connect the dots, right? And so, I think speaking into these things on a Sunday speaking into these things on a Sunday speaking into these things on a Sunday morning or in a midweek podcast, I think morning or in a midweek podcast, I think morning or in a midweek podcast, I think is great. U you know, I remember being is great. U you know, I remember being is great. U you know, I remember being in church the Sunday after 9/11. This is in church the Sunday after 9/11. This is in church the Sunday after 9/11. This is as I was coming to faith and I remember as I was coming to faith and I remember as I was coming to faith and I remember how big it was and I remember the pastor how big it was and I remember the pastor how big it was and I remember the pastor leaning into it and having a leaning into it and having a leaning into it and having a conversation about what happened and and conversation about what happened and and conversation about what happened and and I mean it's one of the first times I saw I mean it's one of the first times I saw I mean it's one of the first times I saw so many people show up to church and so many people show up to church and so many people show up to church and then I and we just had a similar moment then I and we just had a similar moment then I and we just had a similar moment with Charlie Kirk right now again if with Charlie Kirk right now again if with Charlie Kirk right now again if people disagree with some of the things people disagree with some of the things people disagree with some of the things he said or whatever like that's neither he said or whatever like that's neither he said or whatever like that's neither here nor there people are flooding young here nor there people are flooding young here nor there people are flooding young men are flooding the church y um so I men are flooding the church y um so I men are flooding the church y um so I would say that being aware of the would say that being aware of the would say that being aware of the current news cycle what's happening current news cycle what's happening current news cycle what's happening don't don't be afraid to speak into don't don't be afraid to speak into don't don't be afraid to speak into these things and then I would say lastly these things and then I would say lastly these things and then I would say lastly uh and I said this to Carl Lince and uh and I said this to Carl Lince and uh and I said this to Carl Lince and I've said this to quite a few pastors. I I've said this to quite a few pastors. I I've said this to quite a few pastors. I think pastors stand to benefit think pastors stand to benefit think pastors stand to benefit to have control of their own narrative.

to have control of their own narrative. to have control of their own narrative. So, if you're a high-profile pastor and So, if you're a high-profile pastor and So, if you're a high-profile pastor and there's there's shots being thrown at there's there's shots being thrown at there's there's shots being thrown at you, um, man, speak into it. Don't be you, um, man, speak into it. Don't be you, um, man, speak into it. Don't be afraid to talk into whatever the afraid to talk into whatever the afraid to talk into whatever the conversation is, like whoever you are, conversation is, like whoever you are, conversation is, like whoever you are, be willing to sit down and explain be willing to sit down and explain be willing to sit down and explain yourself, right? And and and usually, yourself, right? And and and usually, yourself, right? And and and usually, uh, when pastors contextualize uh, when pastors contextualize uh, when pastors contextualize themselves, it it humanizes them. And so themselves, it it humanizes them. And so themselves, it it humanizes them. And so if you're catching arrows and you're if you're catching arrows and you're if you're catching arrows and you're saying, "Yeah, I'm not afraid to talk saying, "Yeah, I'm not afraid to talk saying, "Yeah, I'm not afraid to talk about whatever thing the the mob online about whatever thing the the mob online about whatever thing the the mob online is talking about or afraid about." They is talking about or afraid about." They is talking about or afraid about." They can get ahead of their own narrative and can get ahead of their own narrative and can get ahead of their own narrative and then not be smeared and misrepresented then not be smeared and misrepresented then not be smeared and misrepresented and deconextualized. This episode is and deconextualized. This episode is and deconextualized. This episode is brought to you by Glue Pastors. I want brought to you by Glue Pastors. I want brought to you by Glue Pastors. I want to ask you something. Do you ever feel to ask you something. Do you ever feel to ask you something. Do you ever feel like Sunday is the part that you're like Sunday is the part that you're like Sunday is the part that you're called to, but Monday is the part that called to, but Monday is the part that called to, but Monday is the part that breaks you? You preach one message and breaks you? You preach one message and breaks you? You preach one message and then you're supposed to stretch it into then you're supposed to stretch it into then you're supposed to stretch it into a whole week of ministry content, a whole week of ministry content, a whole week of ministry content, emails, socials, small groupoup emails, socials, small groupoup emails, socials, small groupoup questions, next steps, and it can feel questions, next steps, and it can feel questions, next steps, and it can feel like the content hamster wheel never like the content hamster wheel never like the content hamster wheel never stops. Well, if you felt that way, I've stops. Well, if you felt that way, I've stops. Well, if you felt that way, I've got Brad Hill here from Glue. So, Brad, got Brad Hill here from Glue. So, Brad, got Brad Hill here from Glue. So, Brad, what is Glue Content Studio and why what is Glue Content Studio and why what is Glue Content Studio and why should a pastor care? should a pastor care? should a pastor care? >> Thanks, Carrie. You know, Glue Content >> Thanks, Carrie. You know, Glue Content >> Thanks, Carrie. You know, Glue Content Studio is built around this same simple Studio is built around this same simple Studio is built around this same simple idea. One message can power a whole week idea. One message can power a whole week idea. One message can power a whole week of ministry. So, you drop in your of ministry. So, you drop in your of ministry. So, you drop in your sermon, an outline, notes, or sermon, an outline, notes, or sermon, an outline, notes, or transcript, and Content Studio helps you transcript, and Content Studio helps you transcript, and Content Studio helps you multiply it into what your church multiply it into what your church multiply it into what your church actually needs during the week. We're actually needs during the week. We're actually needs during the week. We're talking about clear sermon summaries, talking about clear sermon summaries, talking about clear sermon summaries, social posts that actually sound like social posts that actually sound like social posts that actually sound like you, uh, small group discussion prompts, you, uh, small group discussion prompts, you, uh, small group discussion prompts, practical next steps for your people, practical next steps for your people, practical next steps for your people, um, and more that you you can imagine.

um, and more that you you can imagine. um, and more that you you can imagine. So, instead of staring at a blank screen So, instead of staring at a blank screen So, instead of staring at a blank screen on Monday, you're building from what God on Monday, you're building from what God on Monday, you're building from what God already gave you for Sunday. And it kind already gave you for Sunday. And it kind already gave you for Sunday. And it kind of helps Carrie stop this Monday burnout of helps Carrie stop this Monday burnout of helps Carrie stop this Monday burnout and lets your message go farther than a and lets your message go farther than a and lets your message go farther than a single weekend. single weekend. single weekend. >> Well, that's huge. And it's all with the >> Well, that's huge. And it's all with the >> Well, that's huge. And it's all with the click of a button. So, if you want to click of a button. So, if you want to click of a button. So, if you want to reclaim your Mondays and extend the reclaim your Mondays and extend the reclaim your Mondays and extend the impact of your preaching, check out Glue impact of your preaching, check out Glue impact of your preaching, check out Glue Contentstudio. All you have to do is go Contentstudio. All you have to do is go Contentstudio. All you have to do is go to glue.com/carry. to glue.com/carry. to glue.com/carry. That's glo.com/cy. And you can try it today. This episode And you can try it today. This episode is brought to you by Igniter Media. So, is brought to you by Igniter Media. So, is brought to you by Igniter Media. So, let's be honest. Keeping your church's let's be honest. Keeping your church's let's be honest. Keeping your church's visuals and communications fresh week visuals and communications fresh week visuals and communications fresh week after week, that's tough work, right? after week, that's tough work, right? after week, that's tough work, right? And that's where Igniter Media comes in. And that's where Igniter Media comes in. And that's where Igniter Media comes in. Igniter has a robust library of Igniter has a robust library of Igniter has a robust library of readymade church media from sermon readymade church media from sermon readymade church media from sermon videos to beautifully designed videos to beautifully designed videos to beautifully designed backgrounds that work seamlessly in all backgrounds that work seamlessly in all backgrounds that work seamlessly in all church presentation software church presentation software church presentation software applications. So whether you're a big applications. So whether you're a big applications. So whether you're a big church with a design staff or a small church with a design staff or a small church with a design staff or a small church with not a lot of budget, church with not a lot of budget, church with not a lot of budget, Igniter's got you covered. And for my Igniter's got you covered. And for my Igniter's got you covered. And for my listeners, Igniter is offering an listeners, Igniter is offering an listeners, Igniter is offering an exclusive discount on any of their exclusive discount on any of their exclusive discount on any of their memberships. Plus, they're giving you a memberships. Plus, they're giving you a memberships. Plus, they're giving you a free exclusive sermon series package free exclusive sermon series package free exclusive sermon series package valued at $330, which includes a valued at $330, which includes a valued at $330, which includes a complimentary sermon bumper, title complimentary sermon bumper, title complimentary sermon bumper, title graphics, worship backgrounds, social graphics, worship backgrounds, social graphics, worship backgrounds, social graphics, Canva templates, and a graphics, Canva templates, and a graphics, Canva templates, and a proresenter theme. Check it out at proresenter theme. Check it out at proresenter theme. Check it out at ignitermedia.com/carry.

ignitermedia.com/carry. ignitermedia.com/carry. That's ignitermedia.com/carry. That's ignitermedia.com/carry. That's ignitermedia.com/carry. You know, I think that's a really big You know, I think that's a really big You know, I think that's a really big point. And I'm so glad we're having this point. And I'm so glad we're having this point. And I'm so glad we're having this conversation because, you know, there conversation because, you know, there conversation because, you know, there was a time and I pastored for 20 years, was a time and I pastored for 20 years, was a time and I pastored for 20 years, but I tapped out 10 years ago, right, as but I tapped out 10 years ago, right, as but I tapped out 10 years ago, right, as the lead pastor. [clears throat] the lead pastor. [clears throat] the lead pastor. [clears throat] >> And I remember 9/11 and I remember how >> And I remember 9/11 and I remember how >> And I remember 9/11 and I remember how full the room was. And I remember full the room was. And I remember full the room was. And I remember throwing my sermon out and starting over throwing my sermon out and starting over throwing my sermon out and starting over again and talking about it. And it's again and talking about it. And it's again and talking about it. And it's funny, I remember conspiracy theories at funny, I remember conspiracy theories at funny, I remember conspiracy theories at the time, the time, the time, >> even pre- internet, really. We're still >> even pre- internet, really. We're still >> even pre- internet, really. We're still on dialup, right? But I'll tell you what on dialup, right? But I'll tell you what on dialup, right? But I'll tell you what really happened. you know, that was that really happened. you know, that was that really happened. you know, that was that was an inside job. That was this. That was an inside job. That was this. That was an inside job. That was this. That was that. And I was able to kind of was that. And I was able to kind of was that. And I was able to kind of ignore that around 911, right? Like, I ignore that around 911, right? Like, I ignore that around 911, right? Like, I didn't I didn't go there. I didn't didn't I didn't go there. I didn't didn't I didn't go there. I didn't engage it. Now, you've got a engage it. Now, you've got a engage it. Now, you've got a congregation that's bathing in congregation that's bathing in congregation that's bathing in conspiracy theories all week long or, conspiracy theories all week long or, conspiracy theories all week long or, you know, progressive politics or you know, progressive politics or you know, progressive politics or alt-right politics or they have a point alt-right politics or they have a point alt-right politics or they have a point of view on everything. And I think what of view on everything. And I think what of view on everything. And I think what you're saying is really interesting you're saying is really interesting you're saying is really interesting because I think a lot of us and I think because I think a lot of us and I think because I think a lot of us and I think I still think like a pastor who started I still think like a pastor who started I still think like a pastor who started in the 90s would think in the 90s would think in the 90s would think I can bypass that and say something I can bypass that and say something I can bypass that and say something that's going to make everybody happy that's going to make everybody happy that's going to make everybody happy >> like you know and Charlie Kirk was a a >> like you know and Charlie Kirk was a a >> like you know and Charlie Kirk was a a lightning rod moment in a number of lightning rod moment in a number of lightning rod moment in a number of different ways you know first the different ways you know first the different ways you know first the tragedy of it but second the tragedy of it but second the tragedy of it but second the polarization around it and I think a lot polarization around it and I think a lot polarization around it and I think a lot of pastors were like I need to find of pastors were like I need to find of pastors were like I need to find consensus and they discovered that there consensus and they discovered that there consensus and they discovered that there was no consensus. But what I think was no consensus. But what I think was no consensus. But what I think >> you're saying is, you know, you don't >> you're saying is, you know, you don't >> you're saying is, you know, you don't have a church, per se. You do have a

have a church, per se. You do have a have a church, per se. You do have a church, but that's not where you're church, but that's not where you're church, but that's not where you're doing this stuff. doing this stuff. doing this stuff. >> You have the comments and if and you >> You have the comments and if and you >> You have the comments and if and you know this about the algorithm. When the know this about the algorithm. When the know this about the algorithm. When the piece goes viral, you know, your piece goes viral, you know, your piece goes viral, you know, your audience might say, "Oh, I've I've audience might say, "Oh, I've I've audience might say, "Oh, I've I've watched like 75 of his videos. I know watched like 75 of his videos. I know watched like 75 of his videos. I know what he means. I know his point of what he means. I know his point of what he means. I know his point of view." view." view." >> Soon as it goes viral, you get all these >> Soon as it goes viral, you get all these >> Soon as it goes viral, you get all these new eyeballs on you. And people don't new eyeballs on you. And people don't new eyeballs on you. And people don't know you. They don't know who you are. know you. They don't know who you are. know you. They don't know who you are. and they only judge you and they only judge you and they only judge you >> based on what they saw in the 8 seconds >> based on what they saw in the 8 seconds >> based on what they saw in the 8 seconds they watched of your 40-minute video and they watched of your 40-minute video and they watched of your 40-minute video and you said something that triggered them. you said something that triggered them. you said something that triggered them. So when you read the comments So when you read the comments So when you read the comments >> and they're really angry. >> and they're really angry. >> and they're really angry. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> How do you respond? What do you do with >> How do you respond? What do you do with >> How do you respond? What do you do with that? that? that? >> There's a there's a spectrum of >> There's a there's a spectrum of >> There's a there's a spectrum of comments. comments. comments. >> There's the all the way on I'm going to >> There's the all the way on I'm going to >> There's the all the way on I'm going to come and bring harm to you comment. come and bring harm to you comment. come and bring harm to you comment. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> There's no where you live. >> There's no where you live. >> There's no where you live. >> Yeah. There's no reasoning with that >> Yeah. There's no reasoning with that >> Yeah. There's no reasoning with that person. uh all the way down to the hey person. uh all the way down to the hey person. uh all the way down to the hey man like I'm not really understanding man like I'm not really understanding man like I'm not really understanding this part or like why are you talking this part or like why are you talking this part or like why are you talking about this and those are more I I would about this and those are more I I would about this and those are more I I would say genuinely good faith questions that say genuinely good faith questions that say genuinely good faith questions that are inquisitive and so those I think the are inquisitive and so those I think the are inquisitive and so those I think the comments the comment I've been getting comments the comment I've been getting comments the comment I've been getting recently is hey it's so cool that you're recently is hey it's so cool that you're recently is hey it's so cool that you're actually engaging with me in the comment actually engaging with me in the comment actually engaging with me in the comment section like I section like I section like I >> so you're jumping in the comments >> so you're jumping in the comments >> so you're jumping in the comments >> probably more than I should [laughter] >> probably more than I should [laughter] >> probably more than I should [laughter] >> I was going to say I I experiment with >> I was going to say I I experiment with >> I was going to say I I experiment with that I can't say it goes well that I can't say it goes well that I can't say it goes well >> uh especially on YouTube I would say on >> uh especially on YouTube I would say on >> uh especially on YouTube I would say on Patreon. Definitely like I'm going Patreon. Definitely like I'm going Patreon. Definitely like I'm going >> be a different audience. Patreon.

>> be a different audience. Patreon. >> be a different audience. Patreon. >> Yeah, because those are people that are >> Yeah, because those are people that are >> Yeah, because those are people that are kind of within the core. kind of within the core. kind of within the core. >> For those who have heard about Patreon >> For those who have heard about Patreon >> For those who have heard about Patreon but don't understand it, what what is but don't understand it, what what is but don't understand it, what what is Patreon? Patreon? Patreon? >> It's just a membership. So So there's a >> It's just a membership. So So there's a >> It's just a membership. So So there's a >> So they're paying to watch you. >> So they're paying to watch you. >> So they're paying to watch you. >> Well, not quite. There's a free tier >> Well, not quite. There's a free tier >> Well, not quite. There's a free tier that like people can follow and then that like people can follow and then that like people can follow and then there's a paid tier that they can get there's a paid tier that they can get there's a paid tier that they can get certain perks like like uh podcasts go certain perks like like uh podcasts go certain perks like like uh podcasts go early on Patreon before they go public. early on Patreon before they go public. early on Patreon before they go public. They get stuff like discount codes to They get stuff like discount codes to They get stuff like discount codes to our shop. they'll get uh access to tour our shop. they'll get uh access to tour our shop. they'll get uh access to tour stuff stuff like that a little a little stuff stuff like that a little a little stuff stuff like that a little a little earlier. Um and those are the people um earlier. Um and those are the people um earlier. Um and those are the people um that like when I'm seeing comments left, that like when I'm seeing comments left, that like when I'm seeing comments left, I'll engage with those people. I'm going I'll engage with those people. I'm going I'll engage with those people. I'm going back and forth right now with a guy back and forth right now with a guy back and forth right now with a guy that's like he has some of that Israel that's like he has some of that Israel that's like he has some of that Israel derangement syndrome and he's like it, derangement syndrome and he's like it, derangement syndrome and he's like it, you know, Israel's bad and this and this you know, Israel's bad and this and this you know, Israel's bad and this and this and this and this. I'm just kind of I'm and this and this. I'm just kind of I'm and this and this. I'm just kind of I'm making content around it, but I'm also making content around it, but I'm also making content around it, but I'm also trying to understand his his paradigm trying to understand his his paradigm trying to understand his his paradigm because you can go very quickly from because you can go very quickly from because you can go very quickly from like, hey, there's a fair critique about like, hey, there's a fair critique about like, hey, there's a fair critique about some of the actions that Israel could some of the actions that Israel could some of the actions that Israel could have to like fullon drink the Kool-Aid, have to like fullon drink the Kool-Aid, have to like fullon drink the Kool-Aid, anti-semitism, anti-semitism, anti-semitism, the Jews run the world, right? And I'm the Jews run the world, right? And I'm the Jews run the world, right? And I'm trying to divert people from going down trying to divert people from going down trying to divert people from going down that rabbit hole. So, I I I got to that rabbit hole. So, I I I got to that rabbit hole. So, I I I got to engage in some of the the rhetoric engage in some of the the rhetoric engage in some of the the rhetoric around So on Patreon, you know, it's around So on Patreon, you know, it's around So on Patreon, you know, it's kind of like if if you run a Porsche kind of like if if you run a Porsche kind of like if if you run a Porsche dealership for argument's sake, you got dealership for argument's sake, you got dealership for argument's sake, you got a 22year-old who makes, you know, a 22year-old who makes, you know, a 22year-old who makes, you know, minimum wage coming in, can I test drive minimum wage coming in, can I test drive minimum wage coming in, can I test drive a Porsche? Uh they're going to have a a Porsche? Uh they're going to have a a Porsche? Uh they're going to have a very different opinion than a qualified very different opinion than a qualified very different opinion than a qualified buyer. So to some extent buyer. So to some extent buyer. So to some extent >> inside Patreon, we have the same thing >> inside Patreon, we have the same thing >> inside Patreon, we have the same thing in the Art of Leadership Academy. We got in the Art of Leadership Academy. We got in the Art of Leadership Academy. We got 15,000 church leaders now. There's a 15,000 church leaders now. There's a 15,000 church leaders now. There's a free tier and then a paid tier.

free tier and then a paid tier. free tier and then a paid tier. um totally different dialogue inside um totally different dialogue inside um totally different dialogue inside with the free and the paid members with the free and the paid members with the free and the paid members because they even the free ones had to because they even the free ones had to because they even the free ones had to create an account and they're like I'm create an account and they're like I'm create an account and they're like I'm opting in. So you find a more like opting in. So you find a more like opting in. So you find a more like normal debate normal debate normal debate >> because it can't be anonymous. You can't >> because it can't be anonymous. You can't >> because it can't be anonymous. You can't hide behind an egg face, you know, egg hide behind an egg face, you know, egg hide behind an egg face, you know, egg for your for your profile. Like I see for your for your profile. Like I see for your for your profile. Like I see your name. I I actually have your your name. I I actually have your your name. I I actually have your address because we ask everybody to opt address because we ask everybody to opt address because we ask everybody to opt in with their address. Like I know in with their address. Like I know in with their address. Like I know you're a real person. I guess they can you're a real person. I guess they can you're a real person. I guess they can lie about their name or whatever, but I lie about their name or whatever, but I lie about their name or whatever, but I know they're a real person. So those know they're a real person. So those know they're a real person. So those people I I'm I'm I'm willing to engage people I I'm I'm I'm willing to engage people I I'm I'm I'm willing to engage with. with. with. >> And the trolls the trolls don't show up >> And the trolls the trolls don't show up >> And the trolls the trolls don't show up as much. as much. as much. >> Not really. And if they do, they get >> Not really. And if they do, they get >> Not really. And if they do, they get blocked real quick. blocked real quick. blocked real quick. >> Exactly. That's what we do. We We really >> Exactly. That's what we do. We We really >> Exactly. That's what we do. We We really haven't had maybe one or two out of haven't had maybe one or two out of haven't had maybe one or two out of 15,000. Okay. So this is interesting. I 15,000. Okay. So this is interesting. I 15,000. Okay. So this is interesting. I think a lot of pastors are trying to think a lot of pastors are trying to think a lot of pastors are trying to make that shift and understand. So what make that shift and understand. So what make that shift and understand. So what is the what is the benefit? If I is the what is the benefit? If I is the what is the benefit? If I subscribe to your YouTube channel subscribe to your YouTube channel subscribe to your YouTube channel >> and you start talking to me, you're >> and you start talking to me, you're >> and you start talking to me, you're working on a daily show working on a daily show working on a daily show >> and you're sort of my point of view on >> and you're sort of my point of view on >> and you're sort of my point of view on the news. You're my point of view on the news. You're my point of view on the news. You're my point of view on what's happening.

what's happening. what's happening. >> What happens to the person? Are you >> What happens to the person? Are you >> What happens to the person? Are you discipling them? Like what are you discipling them? Like what are you discipling them? Like what are you [clears throat] doing? [clears throat] doing? [clears throat] doing? >> Man, that that is such a great question. >> Man, that that is such a great question. >> Man, that that is such a great question. I I don't know if I I I don't know if I I I don't know if I I don't know if I buy into the notion I don't know if I buy into the notion I don't know if I buy into the notion that you can digitally disciple someone. that you can digitally disciple someone. that you can digitally disciple someone. >> Uh >> Uh >> Uh >> I think you could help people think. I >> I think you could help people think. I >> I think you could help people think. I think you can give people insight into think you can give people insight into think you can give people insight into how you think and come to conclusions how you think and come to conclusions how you think and come to conclusions and process information. I think you can and process information. I think you can and process information. I think you can teach people. I think you can equip teach people. I think you can equip teach people. I think you can equip people, encourage people, empower people, encourage people, empower people, encourage people, empower people, inspire people. I don't know if people, inspire people. I don't know if people, inspire people. I don't know if I can disciple someone over YouTube. I I can disciple someone over YouTube. I I can disciple someone over YouTube. I think think think >> especially on mass, right, with tens of >> especially on mass, right, with tens of >> especially on mass, right, with tens of thousands of people watching. thousands of people watching. thousands of people watching. >> Yeah. And disciplehip for me has always >> Yeah. And disciplehip for me has always >> Yeah. And disciplehip for me has always happened life on life. It's always happened life on life. It's always happened life on life. It's always happened with the older men in my life happened with the older men in my life happened with the older men in my life or maybe men that are maybe a season or maybe men that are maybe a season or maybe men that are maybe a season ahead uh or men that I'm spending time ahead uh or men that I'm spending time ahead uh or men that I'm spending time with. And it it happens like that. And with. And it it happens like that. And with. And it it happens like that. And so I don't know. I it's it's it's a hot so I don't know. I it's it's it's a hot so I don't know. I it's it's it's a hot button issue right now for sure. Like button issue right now for sure. Like button issue right now for sure. Like digital disciplehip. And I'm like I digital disciplehip. And I'm like I digital disciplehip. And I'm like I don't know if I fully agree, but I do don't know if I fully agree, but I do don't know if I fully agree, but I do think it's a great way to teach, help think it's a great way to teach, help think it's a great way to teach, help people think, help people process. A lot people think, help people process. A lot people think, help people process. A lot of people just want to process. Like of people just want to process. Like of people just want to process. Like they want they want they want >> to think, hey man, like this thing >> to think, hey man, like this thing >> to think, hey man, like this thing happened and I don't know how to think happened and I don't know how to think happened and I don't know how to think about it. And I feel like you're about it. And I feel like you're about it. And I feel like you're generally reasonable. Let me see what generally reasonable. Let me see what generally reasonable. Let me see what you think about it. Oh, and you brought you think about it. Oh, and you brought you think about it. Oh, and you brought me back to scripture.

me back to scripture. me back to scripture. >> Like how cool is that? you actually >> Like how cool is that? you actually >> Like how cool is that? you actually connected us to scripture and man I'm connected us to scripture and man I'm connected us to scripture and man I'm I'm uh I haven't had the chance to get I'm uh I haven't had the chance to get I'm uh I haven't had the chance to get in my Bible today and like you you you in my Bible today and like you you you in my Bible today and like you you you gave me some word you know that sort of gave me some word you know that sort of gave me some word you know that sort of stuff. Yeah. stuff. Yeah. stuff. Yeah. >> So one of the things that pastors have >> So one of the things that pastors have >> So one of the things that pastors have and we p primarily church leaders or and we p primarily church leaders or and we p primarily church leaders or like board members key volunteers who like board members key volunteers who like board members key volunteers who listen to this podcast plus a a sampling listen to this podcast plus a a sampling listen to this podcast plus a a sampling of other people. But one of the of other people. But one of the of other people. But one of the challenges I think pastors have is not challenges I think pastors have is not challenges I think pastors have is not only trying to please people, but only trying to please people, but only trying to please people, but they're trying to like I I I'm preaching they're trying to like I I I'm preaching they're trying to like I I I'm preaching on Romans this week and all of a sudden, on Romans this week and all of a sudden, on Romans this week and all of a sudden, you know, this happened in the news or you know, this happened in the news or you know, this happened in the news or that happened in the news. that happened in the news. that happened in the news. >> If you are because you are very involved >> If you are because you are very involved >> If you are because you are very involved in the church, if you are advising in the church, if you are advising in the church, if you are advising pastors like Charlie Kirk is a great pastors like Charlie Kirk is a great pastors like Charlie Kirk is a great example, right? And we talked about it a example, right? And we talked about it a example, right? And we talked about it a few times on this podcast. No matter few times on this podcast. No matter few times on this podcast. No matter what a pastor did over Charlie Kirk, and what a pastor did over Charlie Kirk, and what a pastor did over Charlie Kirk, and I heard from dozens, if not hundreds of I heard from dozens, if not hundreds of I heard from dozens, if not hundreds of pastors directly on that, they didn't do pastors directly on that, they didn't do pastors directly on that, they didn't do it right. it right. it right. >> They were too vocal, too quiet. They >> They were too vocal, too quiet. They >> They were too vocal, too quiet. They prayed, but they prayed wrong. Or there prayed, but they prayed wrong. Or there prayed, but they prayed wrong. Or there should have been more than a prayer, or should have been more than a prayer, or should have been more than a prayer, or they did more than a prayer, but then they did more than a prayer, but then they did more than a prayer, but then they should have only prayed, or they they should have only prayed, or they they should have only prayed, or they were too left, or they were too right, were too left, or they were too right, were too left, or they were too right, or they were too this or too that.

or they were too this or too that. or they were too this or too that. >> And they feel like they can't win when >> And they feel like they can't win when >> And they feel like they can't win when they step into that. So, some of them they step into that. So, some of them they step into that. So, some of them are just like stepping back and going, are just like stepping back and going, are just like stepping back and going, "Ah, I'm not doing that. not doing that. "Ah, I'm not doing that. not doing that. "Ah, I'm not doing that. not doing that. What based, you know, because you're What based, you know, because you're What based, you know, because you're getting reactions every day. getting reactions every day. getting reactions every day. >> What's your take on that? >> What's your take on that? >> What's your take on that? >> Well, I mean, I mean, I think we all, >> Well, I mean, I mean, I think we all, >> Well, I mean, I mean, I think we all, those of us that are public people, all those of us that are public people, all those of us that are public people, all signed up for some degree of signed up for some degree of signed up for some degree of misunderstanding. misunderstanding. misunderstanding. >> Yeah. To be a leader is to be >> Yeah. To be a leader is to be >> Yeah. To be a leader is to be misunderstood. misunderstood. misunderstood. >> Yeah. And so, it's like, man, we we we >> Yeah. And so, it's like, man, we we we >> Yeah. And so, it's like, man, we we we you got to grin and bear it. You know, you got to grin and bear it. You know, you got to grin and bear it. You know, you you you do your best. You pray about you you you do your best. You pray about you you you do your best. You pray about it. You know, I I think there's a a it. You know, I I think there's a a it. You know, I I think there's a a variety of ways that you can address it. variety of ways that you can address it. variety of ways that you can address it. Like my pastor addressed it at the Like my pastor addressed it at the Like my pastor addressed it at the beginning. He also addressed political beginning. He also addressed political beginning. He also addressed political violence as a whole. So it wasn't just violence as a whole. So it wasn't just violence as a whole. So it wasn't just oh my gosh. So no, he mentioned the oh my gosh. So no, he mentioned the oh my gosh. So no, he mentioned the senators in Missouri that got attacked senators in Missouri that got attacked senators in Missouri that got attacked and he he went over all the things that and he he went over all the things that and he he went over all the things that had happened and uh yeah, it's it's it's had happened and uh yeah, it's it's it's had happened and uh yeah, it's it's it's tragic. So I think he acknowledged it at tragic. So I think he acknowledged it at tragic. So I think he acknowledged it at the beginning and then just so happened the beginning and then just so happened the beginning and then just so happened we're we've been in the book of Acts for we're we've been in the book of Acts for we're we've been in the book of Acts for the entire year and somehow the like the the entire year and somehow the like the the entire year and somehow the like the chapter kind of connected to persecution chapter kind of connected to persecution chapter kind of connected to persecution and getting killed for your faith and it and getting killed for your faith and it and getting killed for your faith and it was it was wild the way it over like we was it was wild the way it over like we was it was wild the way it over like we just happened to be I don't we weren't just happened to be I don't we weren't just happened to be I don't we weren't on on on >> Steven. I don't think we were on Ste, >> Steven. I don't think we were on Ste, >> Steven. I don't think we were on Ste, but there was some degree of persecution but there was some degree of persecution but there was some degree of persecution when we were in Acts. And it just kind when we were in Acts. And it just kind when we were in Acts. And it just kind of connected to the to the to the of connected to the to the to the of connected to the to the to the chapter, you know, and so whether or not chapter, you know, and so whether or not chapter, you know, and so whether or not Charlie was a martyr or not, I don't Charlie was a martyr or not, I don't Charlie was a martyr or not, I don't think it's either here nor there. He think it's either here nor there. He think it's either here nor there. He took a clear biblical stance on the took a clear biblical stance on the took a clear biblical stance on the trans issue. And I would argue that's trans issue. And I would argue that's trans issue. And I would argue that's what cost him his life, you know, and he what cost him his life, you know, and he what cost him his life, you know, and he was unapologetic about that. Uh, and so was unapologetic about that. Uh, and so was unapologetic about that. Uh, and so I think we could speak to that without I think we could speak to that without I think we could speak to that without being afraid. And if someone says you're being afraid. And if someone says you're being afraid. And if someone says you're a bigot, you're wrong. It's like we have

a bigot, you're wrong. It's like we have a bigot, you're wrong. It's like we have to be okay with people misunderstanding to be okay with people misunderstanding to be okay with people misunderstanding us. And we have to be okay with people us. And we have to be okay with people us. And we have to be okay with people being wrong about us, being wrong about us, being wrong about us, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> So you have people in your life that are >> So you have people in your life that are >> So you have people in your life that are new believers. You have people uh in new believers. You have people uh in new believers. You have people uh in your church. I mean, new believers, your church. I mean, new believers, your church. I mean, new believers, non-believers, non-believers, non-believers, um believers with with a non-biblical um believers with with a non-biblical um believers with with a non-biblical worldview. Like they they are worldview. Like they they are worldview. Like they they are progressive Marxist. progressive Marxist. progressive Marxist. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And somehow they're going to church >> And somehow they're going to church >> And somehow they're going to church every Sunday. And then they're not every Sunday. And then they're not every Sunday. And then they're not there's some parts that they can't there's some parts that they can't there's some parts that they can't really reconcile, but they're there. Uh, really reconcile, but they're there. Uh, really reconcile, but they're there. Uh, and and it's okay for them to be wrong. and and it's okay for them to be wrong. and and it's okay for them to be wrong. It's okay for us to say, "Hey, no, this It's okay for us to say, "Hey, no, this It's okay for us to say, "Hey, no, this was wrong. Political violence is wrong." was wrong. Political violence is wrong." was wrong. Political violence is wrong." It doesn't matter if he said everything It doesn't matter if he said everything It doesn't matter if he said everything perfect, but this was wrong. Period. We perfect, but this was wrong. Period. We perfect, but this was wrong. Period. We don't need to add a and you know, and don't need to add a and you know, and don't need to add a and you know, and and and and if you're afraid to say and and and if you're afraid to say and and and if you're afraid to say that, I would say, why? Like, that, I would say, why? Like, that, I would say, why? Like, >> would we would would we be afraid to >> would we would would we be afraid to >> would we would would we be afraid to talk about the unborn? Would we be talk about the unborn? Would we be talk about the unborn? Would we be afraid to talk about marriage? Would we afraid to talk about marriage? Would we afraid to talk about marriage? Would we be afraid to tell the dude that's be afraid to tell the dude that's be afraid to tell the dude that's sleeping with a girlfriend uh in church sleeping with a girlfriend uh in church sleeping with a girlfriend uh in church while he's uh serving in the worship while he's uh serving in the worship while he's uh serving in the worship team, you can't do that? You need to sit team, you can't do that? You need to sit team, you can't do that? You need to sit down. No, we wouldn't. Hopefully, God down. No, we wouldn't. Hopefully, God down. No, we wouldn't. Hopefully, God willing, the pastors that are listening, willing, the pastors that are listening, willing, the pastors that are listening, yeah, we would say, no, sit down. No, yeah, we would say, no, sit down. No, yeah, we would say, no, sit down. No, you can. No, you cannot you can. No, you cannot you can. No, you cannot >> be in leadership and serve and sleep >> be in leadership and serve and sleep >> be in leadership and serve and sleep with your girlfriend. Sit down. And so, with your girlfriend. Sit down. And so, with your girlfriend. Sit down. And so, if we were to say that to that dude, why if we were to say that to that dude, why if we were to say that to that dude, why are we afraid to say the obvious, which are we afraid to say the obvious, which are we afraid to say the obvious, which is like political violence is bad. And is like political violence is bad. And is like political violence is bad. And even if Charlie Kirk says some things I even if Charlie Kirk says some things I even if Charlie Kirk says some things I may not agree with, uh, that what may not agree with, uh, that what may not agree with, uh, that what happened to him is wrong. Period. Right.

happened to him is wrong. Period. Right. happened to him is wrong. Period. Right. I I think we have to be able to say I I think we have to be able to say I I think we have to be able to say that. that. that. >> Yeah. So, let's discuss this. And I'm >> Yeah. So, let's discuss this. And I'm >> Yeah. So, let's discuss this. And I'm I'm honestly interested in your I'm honestly interested in your I'm honestly interested in your perspective. perspective. perspective. >> You know, you or I say something and we >> You know, you or I say something and we >> You know, you or I say something and we got a lot of nasty comments or people got a lot of nasty comments or people got a lot of nasty comments or people who unsubscribe or they're not going to who unsubscribe or they're not going to who unsubscribe or they're not going to buy your book or whatever you know buy your book or whatever you know buy your book or whatever you know happens. Sure. When a pastor gets up happens. Sure. When a pastor gets up happens. Sure. When a pastor gets up there, you know, I talked to one pastor, there, you know, I talked to one pastor, there, you know, I talked to one pastor, two p more than one pastor actually, two p more than one pastor actually, two p more than one pastor actually, numerous pastors numerous pastors numerous pastors >> who say on the handling of that, they >> who say on the handling of that, they >> who say on the handling of that, they lost hundreds, lost hundreds, lost hundreds, >> in some case thousands of people, >> in some case thousands of people, >> in some case thousands of people, >> a a measurable chunk of their donor base >> a a measurable chunk of their donor base >> a a measurable chunk of their donor base just walked out the door. just walked out the door. just walked out the door. >> Now, you know that I get first of all, >> Now, you know that I get first of all, >> Now, you know that I get first of all, if you lose it all for the sake of the if you lose it all for the sake of the if you lose it all for the sake of the gospel, did you really lose anything? On gospel, did you really lose anything? On gospel, did you really lose anything? On the other hand, I would think some of the other hand, I would think some of the other hand, I would think some of these things aren't core. It's not like these things aren't core. It's not like these things aren't core. It's not like you're denying the resurrection. you're denying the resurrection. you're denying the resurrection. >> It's not like you're going, "Yeah, Jesus >> It's not like you're going, "Yeah, Jesus >> It's not like you're going, "Yeah, Jesus didn't rise from the dead or, you know, didn't rise from the dead or, you know, didn't rise from the dead or, you know, he wasn't actually God or the scripture he wasn't actually God or the scripture he wasn't actually God or the scripture is is, yeah, it's a good guide, but it's is is, yeah, it's a good guide, but it's is is, yeah, it's a good guide, but it's not actually the word of God." So, not actually the word of God." So, not actually the word of God." So, they're not they're not really they're not they're not really they're not they're not really >> arguing over the core issues of faith, >> arguing over the core issues of faith, >> arguing over the core issues of faith, >> but they said something wrong. And so, I >> but they said something wrong. And so, I >> but they said something wrong. And so, I can see can see can see >> pastors pulling their punches a little >> pastors pulling their punches a little >> pastors pulling their punches a little bit on those issues because there's so bit on those issues because there's so bit on those issues because there's so much at stake. Any thoughts or advice on much at stake. Any thoughts or advice on much at stake. Any thoughts or advice on that? because uh you are somebody who that? because uh you are somebody who that? because uh you are somebody who who has a heart in the local church, but who has a heart in the local church, but who has a heart in the local church, but you're also used to this online every you're also used to this online every you're also used to this online every day and getting beat up in the comments.

day and getting beat up in the comments. day and getting beat up in the comments. >> Yeah, I I guess I've just developed >> Yeah, I I guess I've just developed >> Yeah, I I guess I've just developed >> a numbness to some of it. I couldn't >> a numbness to some of it. I couldn't >> a numbness to some of it. I couldn't imagine when it's affecting imagine when it's affecting imagine when it's affecting >> that big of a financial chunk. Like that >> that big of a financial chunk. Like that >> that big of a financial chunk. Like that has to be scary. But again, we've taken has to be scary. But again, we've taken has to be scary. But again, we've taken stances that have costed us financially, stances that have costed us financially, stances that have costed us financially, you know. Um, yeah, we we've taken all you know. Um, yeah, we we've taken all you know. Um, yeah, we we've taken all sorts of stances that cost us sorts of stances that cost us sorts of stances that cost us financially all the time, you know, and financially all the time, you know, and financially all the time, you know, and I and I'm and I'm okay with that because I and I'm and I'm okay with that because I and I'm and I'm okay with that because at the end of the day, I rather risk and at the end of the day, I rather risk and at the end of the day, I rather risk and help pull people out of brain rot than help pull people out of brain rot than help pull people out of brain rot than to say nothing and then people go deeper to say nothing and then people go deeper to say nothing and then people go deeper and deeper into some of these unhelpful and deeper into some of these unhelpful and deeper into some of these unhelpful false conspiracies. Where is the line false conspiracies. Where is the line false conspiracies. Where is the line for you? And I think you're right for you? And I think you're right for you? And I think you're right because brain rot is a big issue. I've because brain rot is a big issue. I've because brain rot is a big issue. I've been doing some research into it for a been doing some research into it for a been doing some research into it for a project on AI that I'm working on, but project on AI that I'm working on, but project on AI that I'm working on, but brain rot is a bigger issue than that. brain rot is a bigger issue than that. brain rot is a bigger issue than that. What is the difference between in your What is the difference between in your What is the difference between in your mind tell teaching people how to think mind tell teaching people how to think mind tell teaching people how to think >> versus telling them what to think? >> versus telling them what to think? >> versus telling them what to think? teaching them how to think versus teaching them how to think versus teaching them how to think versus telling them what to think because I telling them what to think because I telling them what to think because I could start a YouTube show and say this could start a YouTube show and say this could start a YouTube show and say this is what you should think about blah blah is what you should think about blah blah is what you should think about blah blah blah whatever the issue of the day is blah whatever the issue of the day is blah whatever the issue of the day is [clears throat] right but how do you [clears throat] right but how do you [clears throat] right but how do you what's the difference between the two what's the difference between the two what's the difference between the two how to think what to think how to think what to think how to think what to think >> well you know the interesting thing >> well you know the interesting thing >> well you know the interesting thing about education in general was education about education in general was education about education in general was education existed to teach people how to think existed to teach people how to think existed to teach people how to think >> ideally >> ideally >> ideally >> initially right and then they became >> initially right and then they became >> initially right and then they became these like indoctrination camps where these like indoctrination camps where these like indoctrination camps where now we're just brainwashing this the now we're just brainwashing this the now we're just brainwashing this the next generation of of kids into what to next generation of of kids into what to next generation of of kids into what to think so I think getting people back to think so I think getting people back to think so I think getting people back to the basics of reason and logic, the basics of reason and logic, the basics of reason and logic, philosophy, how do you come to philosophy, how do you come to philosophy, how do you come to conclusions of of truth? What is our conclusions of of truth? What is our conclusions of of truth? What is our basis for knowing anything? And and and

basis for knowing anything? And and and basis for knowing anything? And and and and helping people process that I think and helping people process that I think and helping people process that I think is valuable, but then there are times is valuable, but then there are times is valuable, but then there are times where you just need to rebuke people and where you just need to rebuke people and where you just need to rebuke people and just say, "No, just say, "No, just say, "No, >> you know, no, you cannot do this. You >> you know, no, you cannot do this. You >> you know, no, you cannot do this. You cannot weasle your way out of this. This cannot weasle your way out of this. This cannot weasle your way out of this. This is the standard." And I think that's is the standard." And I think that's is the standard." And I think that's good, too. And I especially young men, I good, too. And I especially young men, I good, too. And I especially young men, I think we keep thinking like young people think we keep thinking like young people think we keep thinking like young people are afraid uh to be led or to be told. are afraid uh to be led or to be told. are afraid uh to be led or to be told. And I I don't get that at all. I think And I I don't get that at all. I think And I I don't get that at all. I think men need to be told sometimes like stop. men need to be told sometimes like stop. men need to be told sometimes like stop. Stop it. Yeah. They seem to like it. So Stop it. Yeah. They seem to like it. So Stop it. Yeah. They seem to like it. So this idea that like, oh well, we don't this idea that like, oh well, we don't this idea that like, oh well, we don't want to lecture them or whatever. I want to lecture them or whatever. I want to lecture them or whatever. I mean, and listen, you know, when when mean, and listen, you know, when when mean, and listen, you know, when when Jesus told them to eat his flesh and Jesus told them to eat his flesh and Jesus told them to eat his flesh and drink his blood, there's a lot of people drink his blood, there's a lot of people drink his blood, there's a lot of people that fell away. You know, there's a lot that fell away. You know, there's a lot that fell away. You know, there's a lot of people that that that left. Now my my of people that that that left. Now my my of people that that that left. Now my my question and this might be an question and this might be an question and this might be an uncomfortable question and pastors may uncomfortable question and pastors may uncomfortable question and pastors may not like this is like not like this is like not like this is like >> if this is your first time if if you >> if this is your first time if if you >> if this is your first time if if you speaking out on the unborn or Charlie speaking out on the unborn or Charlie speaking out on the unborn or Charlie Kirk or whatever and I'm not trying to Kirk or whatever and I'm not trying to Kirk or whatever and I'm not trying to make all those moral equivalencies make all those moral equivalencies make all those moral equivalencies >> is the first time this has caused >> is the first time this has caused >> is the first time this has caused backlash. I would I would go why like backlash. I would I would go why like backlash. I would I would go why like why have you not spent more time talking why have you not spent more time talking why have you not spent more time talking about the the issues that are actually about the the issues that are actually about the the issues that are actually polarizing our society? Right? Is is it polarizing our society? Right? Is is it polarizing our society? Right? Is is it because you don't want to ever step on because you don't want to ever step on because you don't want to ever step on toes? Is it because because I think toes? Is it because because I think toes? Is it because because I think Jesus did and both like I think there Jesus did and both like I think there Jesus did and both like I think there were times where Jesus flat out rebuked were times where Jesus flat out rebuked were times where Jesus flat out rebuked people and then there were times where people and then there were times where people and then there were times where Jesus led with love and grace and mercy Jesus led with love and grace and mercy Jesus led with love and grace and mercy and compassion. So I think we have to be and compassion. So I think we have to be and compassion. So I think we have to be full of grace and truth and if if if full of grace and truth and if if if full of grace and truth and if if if this is causing such a backlash where a this is causing such a backlash where a this is causing such a backlash where a big chunk of your donor base has left uh big chunk of your donor base has left uh big chunk of your donor base has left uh I don't go what what's been going on?

I don't go what what's been going on? I don't go what what's been going on? What have you been doing? This episode What have you been doing? This episode What have you been doing? This episode is brought to you by my annual church is brought to you by my annual church is brought to you by my annual church trends report. If you're enjoying this trends report. If you're enjoying this trends report. If you're enjoying this episode, I think you're going to love my episode, I think you're going to love my episode, I think you're going to love my latest church trends report. For 2026, latest church trends report. For 2026, latest church trends report. For 2026, I've identified seven disruptive trends, I've identified seven disruptive trends, I've identified seven disruptive trends, plus a mega trend that are shaping the plus a mega trend that are shaping the plus a mega trend that are shaping the future of the church. We're seeing future of the church. We're seeing future of the church. We're seeing Generation Z's surprising surge in Generation Z's surprising surge in Generation Z's surprising surge in church attendance, something almost church attendance, something almost church attendance, something almost nobody expected a couple years ago. nobody expected a couple years ago. nobody expected a couple years ago. There's a new boldness in evangelism There's a new boldness in evangelism There's a new boldness in evangelism that's really starting to emerge. that's really starting to emerge. that's really starting to emerge. Algorithms are quietly taking control of Algorithms are quietly taking control of Algorithms are quietly taking control of disciplehip, and pastors actually, disciplehip, and pastors actually, disciplehip, and pastors actually, you're paying a price for that. And you're paying a price for that. And you're paying a price for that. And maybe most concerning of all, most maybe most concerning of all, most maybe most concerning of all, most churches still aren't ready for the AI churches still aren't ready for the AI churches still aren't ready for the AI revolution that's already reshaping revolution that's already reshaping revolution that's already reshaping leadership and soon the world and leadership and soon the world and leadership and soon the world and ministry. So those are just a few of the ministry. So those are just a few of the ministry. So those are just a few of the trends that we'll be unpacking this trends that we'll be unpacking this trends that we'll be unpacking this year. These trends are backed by data. year. These trends are backed by data. year. These trends are backed by data. I've done a lot of research into this I've done a lot of research into this I've done a lot of research into this report, much of which is collected by report, much of which is collected by report, much of which is collected by Bara, and I share my thoughts on why the Bara, and I share my thoughts on why the Bara, and I share my thoughts on why the data matters, what you can do about it, data matters, what you can do about it, data matters, what you can do about it, and how it should shape your ministry. and how it should shape your ministry. and how it should shape your ministry. So, if you want to access the report, So, if you want to access the report, So, if you want to access the report, head on over to 2026urch trends.com for head on over to 2026urch trends.com for head on over to 2026urch trends.com for free access or simply click the link in free access or simply click the link in free access or simply click the link in the description of this episode. I'll the description of this episode. I'll the description of this episode. I'll send you a copy right away and you'll be send you a copy right away and you'll be send you a copy right away and you'll be in the loop for everything 2026 church in the loop for everything 2026 church in the loop for everything 2026 church trends related. Again, it's all free.

trends related. Again, it's all free. trends related. Again, it's all free. Just click the link in the description Just click the link in the description Just click the link in the description of this episode or visit 2026urch of this episode or visit 2026urch of this episode or visit 2026urch trends.com. trends.com. trends.com. >> Well, and at the end of the day, I'm not >> Well, and at the end of the day, I'm not >> Well, and at the end of the day, I'm not justifying that. like you know the donor justifying that. like you know the donor justifying that. like you know the donor base is the donor base and if it goes to base is the donor base and if it goes to base is the donor base and if it goes to zero tomorrow and you were faithful zero tomorrow and you were faithful zero tomorrow and you were faithful >> you get points in heaven right that's >> you get points in heaven right that's >> you get points in heaven right that's okay that's okay okay that's okay okay that's okay >> uh I but I think it's a tension >> uh I but I think it's a tension >> uh I but I think it's a tension >> that they wrestle with and when somebody >> that they wrestle with and when somebody >> that they wrestle with and when somebody leaves leaves leaves >> it's deeply painful >> it's deeply painful >> it's deeply painful >> one of the challenges and and you would >> one of the challenges and and you would >> one of the challenges and and you would see this every day in your platform and see this every day in your platform and see this every day in your platform and JD Greer really helped me think about JD Greer really helped me think about JD Greer really helped me think about this on a recent episode of our podcast this on a recent episode of our podcast this on a recent episode of our podcast and I I can't get the thought out of my and I I can't get the thought out of my and I I can't get the thought out of my head but the average American spends head but the average American spends head but the average American spends seven hours a day online. seven hours a day online. seven hours a day online. >> Mh. >> Mh. >> Mh. >> And that means they're on not just your >> And that means they're on not just your >> And that means they're on not just your YouTube channel or social, they're YouTube channel or social, they're YouTube channel or social, they're everywhere. everywhere. everywhere. >> Um, that means when they spend an hour >> Um, that means when they spend an hour >> Um, that means when they spend an hour with a pastor on Sunday morning, they've with a pastor on Sunday morning, they've with a pastor on Sunday morning, they've already been discipled. Not real already been discipled. Not real already been discipled. Not real disciplehip, disciplehip, disciplehip, >> but discipled for 49 uh 49 hours by >> but discipled for 49 uh 49 hours by >> but discipled for 49 uh 49 hours by whatever the algorithm served them up. whatever the algorithm served them up. whatever the algorithm served them up. And you know how the algorithm works.

And you know how the algorithm works. And you know how the algorithm works. >> How do you keep someone engaged? More >> How do you keep someone engaged? More >> How do you keep someone engaged? More and more extreme, right? So, they're and more extreme, right? So, they're and more extreme, right? So, they're down the anti-Israel rabbit hole or down the anti-Israel rabbit hole or down the anti-Israel rabbit hole or they're on some crazy theory or they're on some crazy theory or they're on some crazy theory or whatever. And you've got a whole mix whatever. And you've got a whole mix whatever. And you've got a whole mix now. You have a church of hundred. now. You have a church of hundred. now. You have a church of hundred. >> You've got people who are into wellness >> You've got people who are into wellness >> You've got people who are into wellness and life extension, and you've got and life extension, and you've got and life extension, and you've got people who are MAGA, and you've got people who are MAGA, and you've got people who are MAGA, and you've got people who are progressive, and you got people who are progressive, and you got people who are progressive, and you got all of these different people. So, all of these different people. So, all of these different people. So, whatever you say is being watched or whatever you say is being watched or whatever you say is being watched or listened to or processed through all of listened to or processed through all of listened to or processed through all of these lenses over which you have no these lenses over which you have no these lenses over which you have no control. and where the financial control. and where the financial control. and where the financial incentive is just keep them hooked eight incentive is just keep them hooked eight incentive is just keep them hooked eight hours a day, nine hours a day because hours a day, nine hours a day because hours a day, nine hours a day because the longer we're all hooked, the more the longer we're all hooked, the more the longer we're all hooked, the more company or the more um money the mag company or the more um money the mag company or the more um money the mag seven make and other companies as well. seven make and other companies as well. seven make and other companies as well. So, I'm curious, you know, So, I'm curious, you know, So, I'm curious, you know, >> this is just the world we're in. None of >> this is just the world we're in. None of >> this is just the world we're in. None of us signed up for this. What are your us signed up for this. What are your us signed up for this. What are your thoughts on that? How do you have you thoughts on that? How do you have you thoughts on that? How do you have you ever changed someone's mind on the ever changed someone's mind on the ever changed someone's mind on the internet? Sharon McMahon, who's been on internet? Sharon McMahon, who's been on internet? Sharon McMahon, who's been on the show a few times, is like, don't the show a few times, is like, don't the show a few times, is like, don't argue with strangers on the internet.

argue with strangers on the internet. argue with strangers on the internet. And what what what are you learning And what what what are you learning And what what what are you learning about that? about that? about that? >> Yeah. Uh well, so right right now >> Yeah. Uh well, so right right now >> Yeah. Uh well, so right right now something we're doing in real time is something we're doing in real time is something we're doing in real time is I'm doing a Candace Owens Tucker Carlson I'm doing a Candace Owens Tucker Carlson I'm doing a Candace Owens Tucker Carlson Nick Fontes challenge. And the challenge Nick Fontes challenge. And the challenge Nick Fontes challenge. And the challenge is this. Cut that out for 30 days. Don't is this. Cut that out for 30 days. Don't is this. Cut that out for 30 days. Don't listen to anything that's not going to listen to anything that's not going to listen to anything that's not going to build you up in scripture, build you up build you up in scripture, build you up build you up in scripture, build you up in wisdom, build you up in preaching, in wisdom, build you up in preaching, in wisdom, build you up in preaching, build you up in Bible for 30 days. So build you up in Bible for 30 days. So build you up in Bible for 30 days. So no, no, no victim mentality, no woe is no, no, no victim mentality, no woe is no, no, no victim mentality, no woe is me. the system is rigged. It's a big me. the system is rigged. It's a big me. the system is rigged. It's a big conspiracy. Merit like none of that. Cut conspiracy. Merit like none of that. Cut conspiracy. Merit like none of that. Cut out Nick Fun says, Tucker Carlson, out Nick Fun says, Tucker Carlson, out Nick Fun says, Tucker Carlson, Canada and the like. I call them the Canada and the like. I call them the Canada and the like. I call them the woke right. Okay. And and cut them out woke right. Okay. And and cut them out woke right. Okay. And and cut them out for 30 days and just see how you feel. for 30 days and just see how you feel. for 30 days and just see how you feel. >> So, this is interesting. Okay. Because >> So, this is interesting. Okay. Because >> So, this is interesting. Okay. Because the algorithm is different. the algorithm is different. the algorithm is different. >> And I know of those names, but I don't >> And I know of those names, but I don't >> And I know of those names, but I don't know what the debate is. So, if you know what the debate is. So, if you know what the debate is. So, if you could fill me in, and maybe that's cuz could fill me in, and maybe that's cuz could fill me in, and maybe that's cuz I'm Canadian. I always play the Canadian I'm Canadian. I always play the Canadian I'm Canadian. I always play the Canadian card. card. card. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um, but I think it's probably the >> Um, but I think it's probably the >> Um, but I think it's probably the algorithm. I can be totally dialed in. algorithm. I can be totally dialed in. algorithm. I can be totally dialed in. So, can you explain what's at stake and So, can you explain what's at stake and So, can you explain what's at stake and why you're calling for a 30-day media why you're calling for a 30-day media why you're calling for a 30-day media fast on that?

fast on that? fast on that? >> Yeah. So, so and I'll give you a comment >> Yeah. So, so and I'll give you a comment >> Yeah. So, so and I'll give you a comment of of of breakthrough in this area, like of of of breakthrough in this area, like of of of breakthrough in this area, like a real a real scenario. Yeah. So, a real a real scenario. Yeah. So, a real a real scenario. Yeah. So, there's there's a spectrum there, but there's there's a spectrum there, but there's there's a spectrum there, but more or less, I mean, Candace has more or less, I mean, Candace has more or less, I mean, Candace has completely gone off the rails post completely gone off the rails post completely gone off the rails post Charlie Kirk Charlie Kirk Charlie Kirk >> where she has alleged that every quote, >> where she has alleged that every quote, >> where she has alleged that every quote, everyone has betrayed Charlie. So from everyone has betrayed Charlie. So from everyone has betrayed Charlie. So from the president to the FBI to uh Turning the president to the FBI to uh Turning the president to the FBI to uh Turning Point USA, everyone has betrayed him. Point USA, everyone has betrayed him. Point USA, everyone has betrayed him. >> So she is the rightful heir or >> So she is the rightful heir or >> So she is the rightful heir or >> she she is the only one that quote >> she she is the only one that quote >> she she is the only one that quote really cares to get to the truth. really cares to get to the truth. really cares to get to the truth. >> Okay. So now you you add that to >> Okay. So now you you add that to >> Okay. So now you you add that to deputizing deputizing deputizing her entire audience to be her sources. her entire audience to be her sources. her entire audience to be her sources. And she's getting all sorts of crazy And she's getting all sorts of crazy And she's getting all sorts of crazy sources from Egyptian planes uh to you sources from Egyptian planes uh to you sources from Egyptian planes uh to you name it. The the the the exploded mic name it. The the the the exploded mic name it. The the the the exploded mic theory to there was a theory to there was a theory to there was a a trapoor underneath Charlie and the a trapoor underneath Charlie and the a trapoor underneath Charlie and the bullet really came from above. Like just bullet really came from above. Like just bullet really came from above. Like just just all kinds of stuff. and because just all kinds of stuff. and because just all kinds of stuff. and because anybody can send her anything. And so anybody can send her anything. And so anybody can send her anything. And so she's now every every there's new she's now every every there's new she's now every every there's new evidence with a new theory and her new evidence with a new theory and her new evidence with a new theory and her new sources. And at the end of the day, the sources. And at the end of the day, the sources. And at the end of the day, the quiet part she's finally starting to say quiet part she's finally starting to say quiet part she's finally starting to say out loud what she said, out loud what she said, out loud what she said, lol to the idea that you can get ahead.

lol to the idea that you can get ahead. lol to the idea that you can get ahead. LOL to the idea that meritocracy exists. LOL to the idea that meritocracy exists. LOL to the idea that meritocracy exists. LOL to the idea, you know, so on and so LOL to the idea, you know, so on and so LOL to the idea, you know, so on and so forth. that if you go down the truth, it forth. that if you go down the truth, it forth. that if you go down the truth, it will it will take you out and and you will it will take you out and and you will it will take you out and and you can no longer work hard and invest in can no longer work hard and invest in can no longer work hard and invest in yourself and develop yourself, which is yourself and develop yourself, which is yourself and develop yourself, which is awful for young. awful for young. awful for young. >> The whole system is rigged. It's all >> The whole system is rigged. It's all >> The whole system is rigged. It's all it's all over. it's all over. it's all over. >> It's all rigged. It's all a conspiracy >> It's all rigged. It's all a conspiracy >> It's all rigged. It's all a conspiracy because look at what they're doing to because look at what they're doing to because look at what they're doing to her. This is new to me. She's the truth. her. This is new to me. She's the truth. her. This is new to me. She's the truth. She's the truth seeker. Look at what She's the truth seeker. Look at what She's the truth seeker. Look at what they're doing to her, right? And so that they're doing to her, right? And so that they're doing to her, right? And so that is absolute poison for the for the 18 to is absolute poison for the for the 18 to is absolute poison for the for the 18 to 25 year old young person, let's just say 25 year old young person, let's just say 25 year old young person, let's just say predominantly male, to tell them that uh predominantly male, to tell them that uh predominantly male, to tell them that uh hey, you're never going to get ahead. hey, you're never going to get ahead. hey, you're never going to get ahead. You're never going to buy a home. You're You're never going to buy a home. You're You're never going to buy a home. You're never you're never going to make it. never you're never going to make it. never you're never going to make it. It's over. So guess what? Just watch me It's over. So guess what? Just watch me It's over. So guess what? Just watch me every day, every day, every day, >> right? Uh so so that's a platform. >> right? Uh so so that's a platform. >> right? Uh so so that's a platform. >> Yeah, that that's Candace. Uh by the >> Yeah, that that's Candace. Uh by the >> Yeah, that that's Candace. Uh by the way, number one podcast. I don't know if way, number one podcast. I don't know if way, number one podcast. I don't know if she still is, but one of the number one she still is, but one of the number one she still is, but one of the number one podcast in the world, in the country at podcast in the world, in the country at podcast in the world, in the country at least. Um so that's Candace. Tucker kind least. Um so that's Candace. Tucker kind least. Um so that's Candace. Tucker kind of plays this like dumb thing where of plays this like dumb thing where of plays this like dumb thing where he'll be like, "I don't know. Like, I he'll be like, "I don't know. Like, I he'll be like, "I don't know. Like, I don't know what's going on." And and all don't know what's going on." And and all don't know what's going on." And and all along he knows what's going on.

along he knows what's going on. along he knows what's going on. >> Guess I'm dumb. >> Guess I'm dumb. >> Guess I'm dumb. >> Yeah. And and and he's completely >> Yeah. And and and he's completely >> Yeah. And and and he's completely flip-flopped on every position he held flip-flopped on every position he held flip-flopped on every position he held 10 years ago. 10 years ago. 10 years ago. >> This is Tucker Carlson. >> This is Tucker Carlson. >> This is Tucker Carlson. >> Tucker Carlson. and uh not just not just >> Tucker Carlson. and uh not just not just >> Tucker Carlson. and uh not just not just flip-flop but like has snuggled up to uh flip-flop but like has snuggled up to uh flip-flop but like has snuggled up to uh everyone from Putin to Qatar to Prince everyone from Putin to Qatar to Prince everyone from Putin to Qatar to Prince you know princes in the Middle East to you know princes in the Middle East to you know princes in the Middle East to accepting Qurans to uh having Nick Fues accepting Qurans to uh having Nick Fues accepting Qurans to uh having Nick Fues on and uh and and and giving him a very on and uh and and and giving him a very on and uh and and and giving him a very softball interview and then Nick Nick Fu softball interview and then Nick Nick Fu softball interview and then Nick Nick Fu Fuentes I was call it's Fuentes Nick Fuentes I was call it's Fuentes Nick Fuentes I was call it's Fuentes Nick Fuentes is like the the bottom of the Fuentes is like the the bottom of the Fuentes is like the the bottom of the barrel of the farright rabbit trail like barrel of the farright rabbit trail like barrel of the farright rabbit trail like actual the Jews run society, actual the Jews run society, actual the Jews run society, the blacks need to be incarcerated for the blacks need to be incarcerated for the blacks need to be incarcerated for the most part. This is a direct quote the most part. This is a direct quote the most part. This is a direct quote and women just need to shut the f up. and women just need to shut the f up. and women just need to shut the f up. And if that were to happen, we would all And if that were to happen, we would all And if that were to happen, we would all live in paradise. And so this is like live in paradise. And so this is like live in paradise. And so this is like really the bottom of the barrel. And the really the bottom of the barrel. And the really the bottom of the barrel. And the and the tricky part with him is he's and the tricky part with him is he's and the tricky part with him is he's very charismatic. He's funny. And so very charismatic. He's funny. And so very charismatic. He's funny. And so people don't know if he's trolling. people don't know if he's trolling. people don't know if he's trolling. People don't know if this is a shtick. People don't know if this is a shtick. People don't know if this is a shtick. Uh and so he just sat down with Pierce Uh and so he just sat down with Pierce Uh and so he just sat down with Pierce Morgan. That's what our video is about Morgan. That's what our video is about Morgan. That's what our video is about today, where he was like, "Yeah, like today, where he was like, "Yeah, like today, where he was like, "Yeah, like I'm racist." Like through and through I'm racist." Like through and through I'm racist." Like through and through I'm racist. Like yeah, black people for I'm racist. Like yeah, black people for I'm racist. Like yeah, black people for the most part need to be locked up, you the most part need to be locked up, you the most part need to be locked up, you know? Uh, and and then you go, "Well, know? Uh, and and then you go, "Well, know? Uh, and and then you go, "Well, based on what? Based on what crime based on what? Based on what crime based on what? Based on what crime statistics?" And his statistics is statistics?" And his statistics is statistics?" And his statistics is wrong. The dad is wrong. Um, you got a wrong. The dad is wrong. Um, you got a wrong. The dad is wrong. Um, you got a 27-year-old dude who lives in his 27-year-old dude who lives in his 27-year-old dude who lives in his mother's basement, never been married, mother's basement, never been married, mother's basement, never been married, never had a girlfriend, uh, no kids, no never had a girlfriend, uh, no kids, no never had a girlfriend, uh, no kids, no family, no nothing. And he is, he got family, no nothing. And he is, he got family, no nothing. And he is, he got cancelled, unrightfully so, I would say.

cancelled, unrightfully so, I would say. cancelled, unrightfully so, I would say. They completely canled. Cancel. I'm They completely canled. Cancel. I'm They completely canled. Cancel. I'm talking bank accounts canceled. I'm talking bank accounts canceled. I'm talking bank accounts canceled. I'm talking no flight zone. And the Stryand talking no flight zone. And the Stryand talking no flight zone. And the Stryand effect. And so now he's he's exploded effect. And so now he's he's exploded effect. And so now he's he's exploded into popularity. And into popularity. And into popularity. And >> Oh, this is who Nick is? That was he got >> Oh, this is who Nick is? That was he got >> Oh, this is who Nick is? That was he got cancelled. cancelled. cancelled. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. And so he is now scorching >> Yeah. Yeah. And so he is now scorching >> Yeah. Yeah. And so he is now scorching hot. Uh and a lot of people he has a hot. Uh and a lot of people he has a hot. Uh and a lot of people he has a they call him the the the the Gropers. I they call him the the the the Gropers. I they call him the the the the Gropers. I call them the Gropers, but they're call them the Gropers, but they're call them the Gropers, but they're called the Gropers, and they're his called the Gropers, and they're his called the Gropers, and they're his online audience is is absolutely online audience is is absolutely online audience is is absolutely important. And here's here's a sad part. important. And here's here's a sad part. important. And here's here's a sad part. I was talking to a friend of his, I was talking to a friend of his, I was talking to a friend of his, actually, a mutual friend of ours, and actually, a mutual friend of ours, and actually, a mutual friend of ours, and he said, "Had Nick not been cancelled, he said, "Had Nick not been cancelled, he said, "Had Nick not been cancelled, he probably would have already fizzled he probably would have already fizzled he probably would have already fizzled out by now." Because we've seen this. out by now." Because we've seen this. out by now." Because we've seen this. We've seen this with the Andrew Tates. We've seen this with the Andrew Tates. We've seen this with the Andrew Tates. We've seen this with the really We've seen this with the really We've seen this with the really hyperbolic stuff. And so this is what's hyperbolic stuff. And so this is what's hyperbolic stuff. And so this is what's consuming. And and the message at the consuming. And and the message at the consuming. And and the message at the end of the day is you're a victim. You end of the day is you're a victim. You end of the day is you're a victim. You can never get ahead. The system is can never get ahead. The system is can never get ahead. The system is rigged and the powers that be are rigged and the powers that be are rigged and the powers that be are keeping you from succeeding in making keeping you from succeeding in making keeping you from succeeding in making anything of your life. anything of your life. anything of your life. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> That's ultimately what it is. And and >> That's ultimately what it is. And and >> That's ultimately what it is. And and and Nick adds white identity politics to and Nick adds white identity politics to and Nick adds white identity politics to it. So you're talking the immigrants, it. So you're talking the immigrants, it. So you're talking the immigrants, the blacks, the Jews, they're they've the blacks, the Jews, they're they've the blacks, the Jews, they're they've taken our way of life and you know taken our way of life and you know taken our way of life and you know whatever. And so, and so, hey, forget whatever. And so, and so, hey, forget whatever. And so, and so, hey, forget the fact that the average American is the fact that the average American is the fact that the average American is consuming seven hours of media a day, consuming seven hours of media a day, consuming seven hours of media a day, almost 50 hours a week. Forget the fact almost 50 hours a week. Forget the fact almost 50 hours a week. Forget the fact that you're chronically online. You're that you're chronically online. You're that you're chronically online. You're chronically distracted. You're not chronically distracted. You're not chronically distracted. You're not developing yourself. You're not building developing yourself. You're not building developing yourself. You're not building any useful skills. You're not dating.

any useful skills. You're not dating. any useful skills. You're not dating. You're not going to church. Uh, no, it's You're not going to church. Uh, no, it's You're not going to church. Uh, no, it's the Jews and the blacks and the the Jews and the blacks and the the Jews and the blacks and the immigrants that are ruining America. immigrants that are ruining America. immigrants that are ruining America. It's like, no, no, no. Or, or you can It's like, no, no, no. Or, or you can It's like, no, no, no. Or, or you can take some agency. You can take some take some agency. You can take some take some agency. You can take some responsibility. And so, the the big responsibility. And so, the the big responsibility. And so, the the big challenge is cut that out. And I only challenge is cut that out. And I only challenge is cut that out. And I only want you to listen to wholesome, want you to listen to wholesome, want you to listen to wholesome, uplifting either preaching, Bible uplifting either preaching, Bible uplifting either preaching, Bible teaching, Christian stuff, Christian teaching, Christian stuff, Christian teaching, Christian stuff, Christian music. Uh if you're struggling music. Uh if you're struggling music. Uh if you're struggling financially, Dave Ramsey, Daniel financially, Dave Ramsey, Daniel financially, Dave Ramsey, Daniel Priestley, that that that that's the Priestley, that that that that's the Priestley, that that that that's the challenge for people and the people that challenge for people and the people that challenge for people and the people that are going into it. I'll read you an are going into it. I'll read you an are going into it. I'll read you an example of this. So this this just came example of this. So this this just came example of this. So this this just came in 15 hours ago. He says, "Rousan, it's in 15 hours ago. He says, "Rousan, it's in 15 hours ago. He says, "Rousan, it's important you know that I was on the important you know that I was on the important you know that I was on the Candace bandwagon and almost into the Candace bandwagon and almost into the Candace bandwagon and almost into the Fuentes stuff as well. Because of your Fuentes stuff as well. Because of your Fuentes stuff as well. Because of your content, I've been able to take a step content, I've been able to take a step content, I've been able to take a step back, focus on reality, and get my life back, focus on reality, and get my life back, focus on reality, and get my life in check. uh you've helped nuance my in check. uh you've helped nuance my in check. uh you've helped nuance my thoughts on Israel conspiracies and how thoughts on Israel conspiracies and how thoughts on Israel conspiracies and how I should be consuming media as a whole. I should be consuming media as a whole. I should be consuming media as a whole. Your content is a blessing and I pray Your content is a blessing and I pray Your content is a blessing and I pray for your ability to continue showing for your ability to continue showing for your ability to continue showing people the truth and helping them focus people the truth and helping them focus people the truth and helping them focus on our savior above all else. God bless, on our savior above all else. God bless, on our savior above all else. God bless, brother. Recently got godly ambition on brother. Recently got godly ambition on brother. Recently got godly ambition on audiobook. Looking forward to listening audiobook. Looking forward to listening audiobook. Looking forward to listening to it, to it, to it, >> man. >> man. >> man. >> So, these are the types of comments I'm >> So, these are the types of comments I'm >> So, these are the types of comments I'm getting of people that were like, "Hey, getting of people that were like, "Hey, getting of people that were like, "Hey, I was almost radicalized by this stuff." I was almost radicalized by this stuff." I was almost radicalized by this stuff." >> Well, and that's how radicalization >> Well, and that's how radicalization >> Well, and that's how radicalization happens, right? Like we've seen that.

happens, right? Like we've seen that. happens, right? Like we've seen that. And we also know And we also know And we also know >> again, what do we know? [laughter] I >> again, what do we know? [laughter] I >> again, what do we know? [laughter] I know a few things about the death and know a few things about the death and know a few things about the death and resurrection of Jesus, but you know, a resurrection of Jesus, but you know, a resurrection of Jesus, but you know, a lot of the social media chatter is being lot of the social media chatter is being lot of the social media chatter is being funded by foreign governments or foreign funded by foreign governments or foreign funded by foreign governments or foreign agents, too. Someone pretending to I'm agents, too. Someone pretending to I'm agents, too. Someone pretending to I'm not saying that's Nick Fuentes. I'm not not saying that's Nick Fuentes. I'm not not saying that's Nick Fuentes. I'm not saying that's Candace Owens, but like a saying that's Candace Owens, but like a saying that's Candace Owens, but like a lot of the stuff on your feed, if you're lot of the stuff on your feed, if you're lot of the stuff on your feed, if you're in that radicalization on the left or in that radicalization on the left or in that radicalization on the left or the right, the right, the right, >> that is >> that is >> that is pretty verifiably pretty verifiably pretty verifiably >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> being fueled by foreign agents who Elon >> being fueled by foreign agents who Elon >> being fueled by foreign agents who Elon exposed it when when he allowed to see exposed it when when he allowed to see exposed it when when he allowed to see where the X accounts are and how many where the X accounts are and how many where the X accounts are and how many people were overseas. But not even that. people were overseas. But not even that. people were overseas. But not even that. I mean, you got people are always I mean, you got people are always I mean, you got people are always talking about the Israel lobby. The talking about the Israel lobby. The talking about the Israel lobby. The Israel lobby, the Israel lobby. Israel Israel lobby, the Israel lobby. Israel Israel lobby, the Israel lobby. Israel lobby in comparison to Qatar is abysmal lobby in comparison to Qatar is abysmal lobby in comparison to Qatar is abysmal in terms of what APEC actually in terms of what APEC actually in terms of what APEC actually contributes versus Qatar and what contributes versus Qatar and what contributes versus Qatar and what they've poured into not just the 2024 they've poured into not just the 2024 they've poured into not just the 2024 election in politics, what they've election in politics, what they've election in politics, what they've poured into our universities, what poured into our universities, what poured into our universities, what they've poured into our education they've poured into our education they've poured into our education system. Like there's a lot of money that system. Like there's a lot of money that system. Like there's a lot of money that is being funneled and to your point, how is being funneled and to your point, how is being funneled and to your point, how much of this is just curation and much of this is just curation and much of this is just curation and foreign interference with regards to foreign interference with regards to foreign interference with regards to radicalizing people, radicalizing people, radicalizing people, >> right? In other words, you know, we're >> right? In other words, you know, we're >> right? In other words, you know, we're going to invade you, but we're going to going to invade you, but we're going to going to invade you, but we're going to invade you by dividing you. and a house invade you by dividing you. and a house invade you by dividing you. and a house divided doesn't stand. Um, you know, divided doesn't stand. Um, you know, divided doesn't stand. Um, you know, >> we're in a very different place than we >> we're in a very different place than we >> we're in a very different place than we were 20 years ago. And this is such a were 20 years ago. And this is such a were 20 years ago. And this is such a helpful helpful helpful >> conversation because I do think >> conversation because I do think >> conversation because I do think >> that so many local church leaders, I >> that so many local church leaders, I >> that so many local church leaders, I mean, maybe they're aware of this and mean, maybe they're aware of this and mean, maybe they're aware of this and maybe I'm out in the dark, but I think a maybe I'm out in the dark, but I think a maybe I'm out in the dark, but I think a big chunk of pastors would not be nearly big chunk of pastors would not be nearly big chunk of pastors would not be nearly as aware of what people are consuming

as aware of what people are consuming as aware of what people are consuming online as you are. And so I think I'm online as you are. And so I think I'm online as you are. And so I think I'm going to be fascinated to see what going to be fascinated to see what going to be fascinated to see what happens after 30 days. happens after 30 days. happens after 30 days. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're we're already >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're we're already >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're we're already starting to hear amazing feedback from starting to hear amazing feedback from starting to hear amazing feedback from folks who are, you know, engaging with folks who are, you know, engaging with folks who are, you know, engaging with this stuff. And so I'm hoping I'm hoping this stuff. And so I'm hoping I'm hoping this stuff. And so I'm hoping I'm hoping that we don't just tell people don't that we don't just tell people don't that we don't just tell people don't listen to stuff, right? Just remove this listen to stuff, right? Just remove this listen to stuff, right? Just remove this stuff. stuff. stuff. >> Trying to point people to something >> Trying to point people to something >> Trying to point people to something better. better. better. >> And I'm trying to point people to >> And I'm trying to point people to >> And I'm trying to point people to something wholesome. And whether that's something wholesome. And whether that's something wholesome. And whether that's my book or whether that's just good my book or whether that's just good my book or whether that's just good Bible preaching that's going to remind Bible preaching that's going to remind Bible preaching that's going to remind you, yes, you are a sinner, but Jesus you, yes, you are a sinner, but Jesus you, yes, you are a sinner, but Jesus rose and conquered death and demons and rose and conquered death and demons and rose and conquered death and demons and destruction. And you get to get in on destruction. And you get to get in on destruction. And you get to get in on that. And it's not just hell insurance. that. And it's not just hell insurance. that. And it's not just hell insurance. It's not just, hey man, I got my hell It's not just, hey man, I got my hell It's not just, hey man, I got my hell insurance in case the rapture happens insurance in case the rapture happens insurance in case the rapture happens next Thursday cuz the guy on TikTok told next Thursday cuz the guy on TikTok told next Thursday cuz the guy on TikTok told me it's going to happen, right? No, no, me it's going to happen, right? No, no, me it's going to happen, right? No, no, no. I'm actually no. I'm actually no. I'm actually >> here to help usher in a piece of heaven >> here to help usher in a piece of heaven >> here to help usher in a piece of heaven on earth. Thy kingdom come, thy will be on earth. Thy kingdom come, thy will be on earth. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Right? done on earth as it is in heaven. Right? done on earth as it is in heaven. Right? and and and empowering people and and and and empowering people and and and and empowering people and saying, "Hey, regardless of uh our saying, "Hey, regardless of uh our saying, "Hey, regardless of uh our theological differences as Christians or theological differences as Christians or theological differences as Christians or regardless like we're here to usher in regardless like we're here to usher in regardless like we're here to usher in goodness and beauty and transcendence goodness and beauty and transcendence goodness and beauty and transcendence and be the hands and feet of Jesus, that and be the hands and feet of Jesus, that and be the hands and feet of Jesus, that requires agency and responsibility. That requires agency and responsibility. That requires agency and responsibility. That requires you cutting back on that seven requires you cutting back on that seven requires you cutting back on that seven hours of media consumption day and and hours of media consumption day and and hours of media consumption day and and let's just let's just cut that in half.

let's just let's just cut that in half. let's just let's just cut that in half. I'm not even saying stop all of it cuz I'm not even saying stop all of it cuz I'm not even saying stop all of it cuz that wouldn't serve me well as a that wouldn't serve me well as a that wouldn't serve me well as a YouTuber." YouTuber." YouTuber." >> Exactly. [laughter] >> Exactly. [laughter] >> Exactly. [laughter] >> Let's just cut the other podcast, not >> Let's just cut the other podcast, not >> Let's just cut the other podcast, not mine. mine. mine. >> Let's just cut it in half and let's just >> Let's just cut it in half and let's just >> Let's just cut it in half and let's just say, "Hey, I'm going to cut this in say, "Hey, I'm going to cut this in say, "Hey, I'm going to cut this in half." And now I got 25 hours a week half." And now I got 25 hours a week half." And now I got 25 hours a week back. What could we do with that 25 back. What could we do with that 25 back. What could we do with that 25 hours a week? I bet you could learn that hours a week? I bet you could learn that hours a week? I bet you could learn that skill you've been meaning to learn. I skill you've been meaning to learn. I skill you've been meaning to learn. I bet you could learn that instrument you bet you could learn that instrument you bet you could learn that instrument you want to learn. I bet you can learn how want to learn. I bet you can learn how want to learn. I bet you can learn how to track your calories and and macros to track your calories and and macros to track your calories and and macros and and train better and take care of and and train better and take care of and and train better and take care of your body and go outside and touch your body and go outside and touch your body and go outside and touch grass. You do that for 30 days, 60 days. grass. You do that for 30 days, 60 days. grass. You do that for 30 days, 60 days. My gosh, you're you're a different My gosh, you're you're a different My gosh, you're you're a different person. person. person. >> Mhm. And so that's kind of your message. >> Mhm. And so that's kind of your message. >> Mhm. And so that's kind of your message. You have a pretty young audience. You have a pretty young audience. You have a pretty young audience. Another one of the trends is young men Another one of the trends is young men Another one of the trends is young men are returning to church. Women are are returning to church. Women are are returning to church. Women are leaving. Not all, but a lot like leaving. Not all, but a lot like leaving. Not all, but a lot like statistically significant, but young men statistically significant, but young men statistically significant, but young men are rushing back to church. We touched are rushing back to church. We touched are rushing back to church. We touched on that a little bit. on that a little bit. on that a little bit. >> What do you think is behind that? >> I think >> I think young men have tried everything the young men have tried everything the young men have tried everything the world's offered them. I think they've world's offered them. I think they've world's offered them. I think they've tried tried tried the the the lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, pride of life. I think they've tried pride of life. I think they've tried pride of life. I think they've tried that. I think they they understand that that. I think they they understand that that. I think they they understand that much of what's being fed to them is much of what's being fed to them is much of what's being fed to them is false. And I think they're looking for false. And I think they're looking for false. And I think they're looking for something deeper and they and they something deeper and they and they something deeper and they and they they're ready to grow up. They they're they're ready to grow up. They they're they're ready to grow up. They they're looking for guidance. They're looking looking for guidance. They're looking looking for guidance. They're looking for someone to tell them the truth. And for someone to tell them the truth. And for someone to tell them the truth. And I I not to oversimplify, but I think I I not to oversimplify, but I think I I not to oversimplify, but I think there there's that. I think they they're there there's that. I think they they're there there's that. I think they they're disillusioned with the status quo and disillusioned with the status quo and disillusioned with the status quo and they're saying, "I I need something they're saying, "I I need something they're saying, "I I need something more."

more." more." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> How are you how is that showing up on >> How are you how is that showing up on >> How are you how is that showing up on your channel? your channel? your channel? How are you hearing that? What are you How are you hearing that? What are you How are you hearing that? What are you What are you hearing from them? Uh well, What are you hearing from them? Uh well, What are you hearing from them? Uh well, I mean, outside of the channel, when I I mean, outside of the channel, when I I mean, outside of the channel, when I do my live events, we did four uh uh do my live events, we did four uh uh do my live events, we did four uh uh Godly Ambition book launches. So, I did Godly Ambition book launches. So, I did Godly Ambition book launches. So, I did one uh I did one in Dallas, did one in one uh I did one in Dallas, did one in one uh I did one in Dallas, did one in Nashville, Nashville, Nashville, uh I did one here in Oceanside at my uh I did one here in Oceanside at my uh I did one here in Oceanside at my church, and I did one at San Antonio church, and I did one at San Antonio church, and I did one at San Antonio with Pastor Ed at CBC. and the lines of with Pastor Ed at CBC. and the lines of with Pastor Ed at CBC. and the lines of people that want to sit and talk and people that want to sit and talk and people that want to sit and talk and tell me their story and get prayed for tell me their story and get prayed for tell me their story and get prayed for and like that like that like what I'm and like that like that like what I'm and like that like that like what I'm hearing there is a lot of men and women hearing there is a lot of men and women hearing there is a lot of men and women but men primarily are are sharing these but men primarily are are sharing these but men primarily are are sharing these things with me of like hey like things with me of like hey like things with me of like hey like >> yeah like I I I I I'm in this tension of >> yeah like I I I I I'm in this tension of >> yeah like I I I I I'm in this tension of like like like >> I want to be faithful with my time, my >> I want to be faithful with my time, my >> I want to be faithful with my time, my talent, my treasure, but I but I don't talent, my treasure, but I but I don't talent, my treasure, but I but I don't want to just chase success for the sake want to just chase success for the sake want to just chase success for the sake of chasing success and vanity for the of chasing success and vanity for the of chasing success and vanity for the sake of vanity and how do I discover my sake of vanity and how do I discover my sake of vanity and how do I discover my calling and how do I discover my purpose calling and how do I discover my purpose calling and how do I discover my purpose and and and am I is is it really over?

and and and am I is is it really over? and and and am I is is it really over? Like am I really not my parents got a Like am I really not my parents got a Like am I really not my parents got a better life than me and this is it? I'm better life than me and this is it? I'm better life than me and this is it? I'm never going to be able to buy a home and never going to be able to buy a home and never going to be able to buy a home and I'm never going to be able to retire I'm never going to be able to retire I'm never going to be able to retire with dignity and I'm never going to be with dignity and I'm never going to be with dignity and I'm never going to be able to go on vacation. Like these are able to go on vacation. Like these are able to go on vacation. Like these are the real questions they have. And I'm the real questions they have. And I'm the real questions they have. And I'm not saying that that is uh that should not saying that that is uh that should not saying that that is uh that should be the north star for a young man. But be the north star for a young man. But be the north star for a young man. But these are things that they're thinking these are things that they're thinking these are things that they're thinking about. Hey, I want to have a family and about. Hey, I want to have a family and about. Hey, I want to have a family and afford my wife the opportunity to stay afford my wife the opportunity to stay afford my wife the opportunity to stay home when the kids are little. You know, home when the kids are little. You know, home when the kids are little. You know, can I even do that in this economy? can I even do that in this economy? can I even do that in this economy? Those are the questions they're asking. Those are the questions they're asking. Those are the questions they're asking. And I think they're understanding that And I think they're understanding that And I think they're understanding that regardless on how you pan out on those regardless on how you pan out on those regardless on how you pan out on those things, right? Regardless on if you're things, right? Regardless on if you're things, right? Regardless on if you're figure out figure it out financially, if figure out figure it out financially, if figure out figure it out financially, if you don't figure it out, at the end of you don't figure it out, at the end of you don't figure it out, at the end of the day, Jesus is what gives us the the day, Jesus is what gives us the the day, Jesus is what gives us the peace, right? Jesus is what gives us the peace, right? Jesus is what gives us the peace, right? Jesus is what gives us the the the the steadfastness of regardless the the the steadfastness of regardless the the the steadfastness of regardless on how things work out, I know that I on how things work out, I know that I on how things work out, I know that I have something I can trust that's have something I can trust that's have something I can trust that's outside of myself. outside of myself. outside of myself. >> So, if I'm writing sermon series for a >> So, if I'm writing sermon series for a >> So, if I'm writing sermon series for a year and I want to address some of the year and I want to address some of the year and I want to address some of the core issues, obviously, I'm taking this core issues, obviously, I'm taking this core issues, obviously, I'm taking this from scripture, right? But I really from scripture, right? But I really from scripture, right? But I really believe scripture speaks to all the core believe scripture speaks to all the core believe scripture speaks to all the core issues. You're going to run into life. I issues. You're going to run into life. I issues. You're going to run into life. I I have not run into one I have not run into one I have not run into one >> that scripture doesn't address directly >> that scripture doesn't address directly >> that scripture doesn't address directly or indirectly. But if you're looking at, or indirectly. But if you're looking at, or indirectly. But if you're looking at, >> you know, cuz a lot of us I'm I'm doing >> you know, cuz a lot of us I'm I'm doing >> you know, cuz a lot of us I'm I'm doing a an episode with a couple that a an episode with a couple that a an episode with a couple that specializes in dating.

specializes in dating. specializes in dating. >> Cuz I did the math last year. It's been >> Cuz I did the math last year. It's been >> Cuz I did the math last year. It's been 37 years since I dated. 37 years since I dated. 37 years since I dated. >> Most of lot has changed. >> Most of lot has changed. >> Most of lot has changed. >> A little bit. A little bit's changed. >> A little bit. A little bit's changed. >> A little bit. A little bit's changed. >> It's been 21 years since I've dated. >> It's been 21 years since I've dated. >> It's been 21 years since I've dated. >> 21 years since you've dated. A little >> 21 years since you've dated. A little >> 21 years since you've dated. A little bit's changed, right? But you get up bit's changed, right? But you get up bit's changed, right? But you get up there and it's like I'm a relationship there and it's like I'm a relationship there and it's like I'm a relationship expert. I'm I'm not an expert, right? expert. I'm I'm not an expert, right? expert. I'm I'm not an expert, right? It's been a long time since I was a It's been a long time since I was a It's been a long time since I was a young man. young man. young man. >> So if you were crafting a series >> So if you were crafting a series >> So if you were crafting a series >> for young adults, and we can include >> for young adults, and we can include >> for young adults, and we can include women, we can just talk about men for a women, we can just talk about men for a women, we can just talk about men for a minute. It's up to you. Frame the minute. It's up to you. Frame the minute. It's up to you. Frame the question as you want. question as you want. question as you want. >> What issues are you focused on? What do >> What issues are you focused on? What do >> What issues are you focused on? What do you think are are are the things they're you think are are are the things they're you think are are are the things they're looking for clarity and hope around? looking for clarity and hope around? looking for clarity and hope around? Well, I I think you we we got we have to Well, I I think you we we got we have to Well, I I think you we we got we have to start with foundationally who is God. start with foundationally who is God. start with foundationally who is God. >> So So So I think there needs to be some >> So So So I think there needs to be some >> So So So I think there needs to be some apologetics. From there, we're going to apologetics. From there, we're going to apologetics. From there, we're going to jump into worldview. How do you what is jump into worldview. How do you what is jump into worldview. How do you what is the what is the lens that you see the what is the lens that you see the what is the lens that you see everything through? everything through? everything through? >> We're we're probably going to have to do >> We're we're probably going to have to do >> We're we're probably going to have to do some detangling of some of the Marxism some detangling of some of the Marxism some detangling of some of the Marxism that they've been indoctrinated in of that they've been indoctrinated in of that they've been indoctrinated in of some of the oppressed depressor uh some of the oppressed depressor uh some of the oppressed depressor uh patriarchy bad. Like we're going to have patriarchy bad. Like we're going to have patriarchy bad. Like we're going to have to detangle some of that on a macro to detangle some of that on a macro to detangle some of that on a macro scale. So I think scale. So I think scale. So I think >> So we saying patriarchy is good. I think >> So we saying patriarchy is good. I think >> So we saying patriarchy is good. I think biblical patriarchy is amazing. Yeah.

biblical patriarchy is amazing. Yeah. biblical patriarchy is amazing. Yeah. >> What do you mean by that? >> What do you mean by that? >> What do you mean by that? >> Biblical uh complimentarianism. So, so, >> Biblical uh complimentarianism. So, so, >> Biblical uh complimentarianism. So, so, so men and women compliment each other. so men and women compliment each other. so men and women compliment each other. We're different. Uh but we're both We're different. Uh but we're both We're different. Uh but we're both created in the image of God, but we have created in the image of God, but we have created in the image of God, but we have distinct roles and we're wired distinct roles and we're wired distinct roles and we're wired different. Generally speaking, uh I different. Generally speaking, uh I different. Generally speaking, uh I understand there's there's women that understand there's there's women that understand there's there's women that are amazing entrepreneurs, and I are amazing entrepreneurs, and I are amazing entrepreneurs, and I understand there are men that, you know, understand there are men that, you know, understand there are men that, you know, may be stay-at-home dads for a season, may be stay-at-home dads for a season, may be stay-at-home dads for a season, but generally speaking, men or women are but generally speaking, men or women are but generally speaking, men or women are different. Um and a lot of what these different. Um and a lot of what these different. Um and a lot of what these kids are indoctrinated in is is like a kids are indoctrinated in is is like a kids are indoctrinated in is is like a soft neo-Marxism, and they don't even soft neo-Marxism, and they don't even soft neo-Marxism, and they don't even know it. They don't even know that know it. They don't even know that know it. They don't even know that you're you're seeing the entire world you're you're seeing the entire world you're you're seeing the entire world through an oppressor oppressed paradigm, through an oppressor oppressed paradigm, through an oppressor oppressed paradigm, right? So, we got to detangle some of right? So, we got to detangle some of right? So, we got to detangle some of that. So, like what is the world view that. So, like what is the world view that. So, like what is the world view that we see everything through, right? that we see everything through, right? that we see everything through, right? And uh that starts with God. He's on the And uh that starts with God. He's on the And uh that starts with God. He's on the throne. Psalm 24:1, the earth is the throne. Psalm 24:1, the earth is the throne. Psalm 24:1, the earth is the Lord's, everything in it, the whole Lord's, everything in it, the whole Lord's, everything in it, the whole world and all the people in it. So, world and all the people in it. So, world and all the people in it. So, God's ultimately on the throne. He's God's ultimately on the throne. He's God's ultimately on the throne. He's sovereign over all things. sovereign over all things. sovereign over all things. >> Uh and we exist. So I would say uh the >> Uh and we exist. So I would say uh the >> Uh and we exist. So I would say uh the the basics of the of the worldview the the basics of the of the worldview the the basics of the of the worldview the story like the gospel story I think is story like the gospel story I think is story like the gospel story I think is so intrinsic right because the gospel so intrinsic right because the gospel so intrinsic right because the gospel story it doesn't start with with us like story it doesn't start with with us like story it doesn't start with with us like we're not the main character of a sense we're not the main character of a sense we're not the main character of a sense of the story Jesus is the main character of the story Jesus is the main character of the story Jesus is the main character the creator is the main character of the the creator is the main character of the the creator is the main character of the story and then even in the way Jesus story and then even in the way Jesus story and then even in the way Jesus engages with humanity is like man I engages with humanity is like man I engages with humanity is like man I created you in in with dignity and worth created you in in with dignity and worth created you in in with dignity and worth and value u but by the way in Matthew 7 and value u but by the way in Matthew 7 and value u but by the way in Matthew 7 he says you who are evil he says you who are evil he says you who are evil >> so this dichotomy of of humanity that is >> so this dichotomy of of humanity that is >> so this dichotomy of of humanity that is uncomfortable like no no no no people uncomfortable like no no no no people uncomfortable like no no no no people are evil and we can say that at the same are evil and we can say that at the same are evil and we can say that at the same time we have immense value and immense time we have immense value and immense time we have immense value and immense potential and and could do amazingly potential and and could do amazingly potential and and could do amazingly good stuff you are evil know how to give good stuff you are evil know how to give good stuff you are evil know how to give good gifts right so I think a world a good gifts right so I think a world a good gifts right so I think a world a worldview um description of what is the

worldview um description of what is the worldview um description of what is the Christian worldview you've seen the Christian worldview you've seen the Christian worldview you've seen the studies uh what is it like less than you studies uh what is it like less than you studies uh what is it like less than you know 30% of people in church actually know 30% of people in church actually know 30% of people in church actually have a biblical worldview have a biblical worldview have a biblical worldview >> yeah so so I think we have to get >> yeah so so I think we have to get >> yeah so so I think we have to get >> we work pretty closely with Bara and >> we work pretty closely with Bara and >> we work pretty closely with Bara and that's sadly true and 24% of Christians that's sadly true and 24% of Christians that's sadly true and 24% of Christians I just got this data in only 24% % of I just got this data in only 24% % of I just got this data in only 24% % of Christians practice their faith. Christians practice their faith. Christians practice their faith. >> Oh, that's brutal. >> Oh, that's brutal. >> Oh, that's brutal. >> 76% are kind of like, yeah, >> 76% are kind of like, yeah, >> 76% are kind of like, yeah, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> yeah. So, so, so I think when when we're >> yeah. So, so, so I think when when we're >> yeah. So, so, so I think when when we're talking worldview, then then we got to talking worldview, then then we got to talking worldview, then then we got to get into um get into um get into um >> man, what is life >> man, what is life >> man, what is life >> and what makes life sacred and when does >> and what makes life sacred and when does >> and what makes life sacred and when does life begin? life begin? life begin? >> That's a that's a worldview issue, >> That's a that's a worldview issue, >> That's a that's a worldview issue, right? Um what about other religions and right? Um what about other religions and right? Um what about other religions and other faiths? You know, what what about other faiths? You know, what what about other faiths? You know, what what about and then and that now we're getting into and then and that now we're getting into and then and that now we're getting into sexuality, sexuality, sexuality, right? And and no, no, no, no, no, no, right? And and no, no, no, no, no, no, right? And and no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You can't sleep with your no. You can't sleep with your no. You can't sleep with your girlfriend. I don't care if you think girlfriend. I don't care if you think girlfriend. I don't care if you think God told you in your heart that you're God told you in your heart that you're God told you in your heart that you're married. married. married. >> No, you cannot you cannot do that. >> No, you cannot you cannot do that. >> No, you cannot you cannot do that. You're not married. Cut it out. Right. You're not married. Cut it out. Right. You're not married. Cut it out. Right. So now we're talking sexuality. Uh why So now we're talking sexuality. Uh why So now we're talking sexuality. Uh why is marriage between one man and one is marriage between one man and one is marriage between one man and one woman?

woman? woman? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. So so so we're going to have to >> Right. So so so we're going to have to >> Right. So so so we're going to have to go through that. Um and then and then I go through that. Um and then and then I go through that. Um and then and then I think like okay, so now that we have our think like okay, so now that we have our think like okay, so now that we have our hair on our straight, then we got to go hair on our straight, then we got to go hair on our straight, then we got to go into now. Now what are the virtues of into now. Now what are the virtues of into now. Now what are the virtues of the Christian life? How does this the Christian life? How does this the Christian life? How does this practically look? So yeah, I would uh practically look? So yeah, I would uh practically look? So yeah, I would uh pastors sometimes we are talking about pastors sometimes we are talking about pastors sometimes we are talking about finances. uh because they they're like, finances. uh because they they're like, finances. uh because they they're like, "Man, if I if I preach about money and "Man, if I if I preach about money and "Man, if I if I preach about money and then people are just going to think we then people are just going to think we then people are just going to think we want money." I would preach about want money." I would preach about want money." I would preach about finances from the perspective of finances from the perspective of finances from the perspective of stewardship. stewardship. stewardship. >> What you can do for people, not just >> What you can do for people, not just >> What you can do for people, not just what I want from you, right? Like, dude, what I want from you, right? Like, dude, what I want from you, right? Like, dude, you need to not have a car payment. you need to not have a car payment. you need to not have a car payment. Drive a car, not a car payment. Drive a car, not a car payment. Drive a car, not a car payment. >> Yes. Yes. And and we've benefited >> Yes. Yes. And and we've benefited >> Yes. Yes. And and we've benefited greatly. I mean, me and my wife, I mean, greatly. I mean, me and my wife, I mean, greatly. I mean, me and my wife, I mean, we we like I said, we come from poverty. we we like I said, we come from poverty. we we like I said, we come from poverty. Uh we spent 18 months. We're technically Uh we spent 18 months. We're technically Uh we spent 18 months. We're technically six figures in debt. Spent 18 months six figures in debt. Spent 18 months six figures in debt. Spent 18 months working the Dave Ramsey baby steps and working the Dave Ramsey baby steps and working the Dave Ramsey baby steps and we're debtree, right? we're debtree, right? we're debtree, right? >> Congrats. >> Congrats. >> Congrats. >> Yeah. Thank you. This is back 2011, 2012 >> Yeah. Thank you. This is back 2011, 2012 >> Yeah. Thank you. This is back 2011, 2012 before YouTube, before music took off. before YouTube, before music took off. before YouTube, before music took off. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Um, we my wife worked two jobs and you >> Um, we my wife worked two jobs and you >> Um, we my wife worked two jobs and you know, then that allowed us to know, then that allowed us to know, then that allowed us to >> rice and beans. >> rice and beans. >> rice and beans. >> Rice and beans. Yeah. Yeah. No eating >> Rice and beans. Yeah. Yeah. No eating >> Rice and beans. Yeah. Yeah. No eating out, no nothing for 18 months. It was out, no nothing for 18 months. It was out, no nothing for 18 months. It was hard. hard. hard. >> And then we were able to have a kid. She >> And then we were able to have a kid. She >> And then we were able to have a kid. She could stay at home. I could transition could stay at home. I could transition could stay at home. I could transition to do music full-time. We we we to do music full-time. We we we to do music full-time. We we we sequentially built these things out.

sequentially built these things out. sequentially built these things out. >> It's one of my favorite things we did as >> It's one of my favorite things we did as >> It's one of my favorite things we did as lead pastor around 2010. We started a lead pastor around 2010. We started a lead pastor around 2010. We started a Ramsay like program. change people's Ramsay like program. change people's Ramsay like program. change people's lives like and those people who were 21 lives like and those people who were 21 lives like and those people who were 21 when they did it 15 years ago are now in when they did it 15 years ago are now in when they did it 15 years ago are now in their late 30s and they're their late 30s and they're their late 30s and they're >> they have freedom they have options they >> they have freedom they have options they >> they have freedom they have options they they have money in the bank not they have money in the bank not they have money in the bank not >> you know credit card it's amazing so >> you know credit card it's amazing so >> you know credit card it's amazing so real life tangible issues and again the real life tangible issues and again the real life tangible issues and again the Bible talks about money Bible talks about money Bible talks about money >> yeah a lot a lot >> yeah a lot a lot >> yeah a lot a lot >> a lot so so my philosophy is like man >> a lot so so my philosophy is like man >> a lot so so my philosophy is like man equip your people to handle finances equip your people to handle finances equip your people to handle finances well don't be afraid to talk about money well don't be afraid to talk about money well don't be afraid to talk about money and and there they will generally be and and there they will generally be and and there they will generally be more generous more generous more generous >> yes generally that >> yes generally that >> yes generally that >> not always but and you teach that as >> not always but and you teach that as >> not always but and you teach that as part of it, right? But when you're part of it, right? But when you're part of it, right? But when you're drowning in debt and you've got overdue drowning in debt and you've got overdue drowning in debt and you've got overdue bills and everything's, you know, buy bills and everything's, you know, buy bills and everything's, you know, buy now pay later. now pay later. now pay later. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> It's really hard. >> It's really hard. >> It's really hard. >> Yeah. Yeah. Which which again comes back >> Yeah. Yeah. Which which again comes back >> Yeah. Yeah. Which which again comes back to the idea of worldview. Like if you do to the idea of worldview. Like if you do to the idea of worldview. Like if you do what is easy, your life will be hard. If what is easy, your life will be hard. If what is easy, your life will be hard. If you do what is hard, your life will be you do what is hard, your life will be you do what is hard, your life will be easy. easy. easy. >> It's true. >> It's true. >> It's true. >> Deny yourself now and down the road >> Deny yourself now and down the road >> Deny yourself now and down the road things will get easier. Generally things will get easier. Generally things will get easier. Generally speaking, I understand.

speaking, I understand. speaking, I understand. >> And that message really resonates, >> And that message really resonates, >> And that message really resonates, right? It really does with young men right? It really does with young men right? It really does with young men >> because because you're telling them to >> because because you're telling them to >> because because you're telling them to delay gratification. Yeah. You're delay gratification. Yeah. You're delay gratification. Yeah. You're telling them to say, "Hey, your frontal telling them to say, "Hey, your frontal telling them to say, "Hey, your frontal lobe isn't developed. You just want lobe isn't developed. You just want lobe isn't developed. You just want dopamine. Slow down and make better dopamine. Slow down and make better dopamine. Slow down and make better decisions because there's a future decisions because there's a future decisions because there's a future version of you that's depending on the version of you that's depending on the version of you that's depending on the current version of you to make better current version of you to make better current version of you to make better decisions." decisions." decisions." >> So, character, >> So, character, >> So, character, >> character, integrity. Yes. Let your yes >> character, integrity. Yes. Let your yes >> character, integrity. Yes. Let your yes be yes. Let you know, you know, stop be yes. Let you know, you know, stop be yes. Let you know, you know, stop being so flaky. You say you're going to being so flaky. You say you're going to being so flaky. You say you're going to be somewhere, be be there. be somewhere, be be there. be somewhere, be be there. >> Stop being so flaky. >> Stop being so flaky. >> Stop being so flaky. >> You can't weasle your way out of every >> You can't weasle your way out of every >> You can't weasle your way out of every commitment. That's why it's good to join commitment. That's why it's good to join commitment. That's why it's good to join a Bible study. Join a Bible study and be a Bible study. Join a Bible study and be a Bible study. Join a Bible study and be there every week. We used to kick guys there every week. We used to kick guys there every week. We used to kick guys out. we date has 16week windows and if a out. we date has 16week windows and if a out. we date has 16week windows and if a guy missed a Bible study without giving guy missed a Bible study without giving guy missed a Bible study without giving us a heads up, we'd be like, "Nah, us a heads up, we'd be like, "Nah, us a heads up, we'd be like, "Nah, you're not coming back, dude." you're not coming back, dude." you're not coming back, dude." >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Yeah. So, so we were pretty intense and >> Yeah. So, so we were pretty intense and >> Yeah. So, so we were pretty intense and people were like, "Oh, that's legalism." people were like, "Oh, that's legalism." people were like, "Oh, that's legalism." No, no, no. It's a standard. No, no, no. It's a standard. No, no, no. It's a standard. >> Men need to be called to a standard. So, >> Men need to be called to a standard. So, >> Men need to be called to a standard. So, um, yes. I mean, we talked about sex, um, yes. I mean, we talked about sex, um, yes. I mean, we talked about sex, finances, uh, I would get into marriage finances, uh, I would get into marriage finances, uh, I would get into marriage and like really explaining not just like and like really explaining not just like and like really explaining not just like why gay marriage isn't me, like really why gay marriage isn't me, like really why gay marriage isn't me, like really what is a marriage and the beautiful what is a marriage and the beautiful what is a marriage and the beautiful connection it has to Christ in the connection it has to Christ in the connection it has to Christ in the church and then what is the church? church and then what is the church? church and then what is the church? Like, why are we called to be a part of Like, why are we called to be a part of Like, why are we called to be a part of the church? So, this is just like as I'm the church? So, this is just like as I'm the church? So, this is just like as I'm spitballing, I think those are some of spitballing, I think those are some of spitballing, I think those are some of the the the essential things that I the the the essential things that I the the the essential things that I think you you help people understand think you you help people understand think you you help people understand those topics and then the the rest those topics and then the the rest those topics and then the the rest should fall into play because at the end should fall into play because at the end should fall into play because at the end of the day, I believe the more agency of the day, I believe the more agency of the day, I believe the more agency people can take over their actions, the people can take over their actions, the people can take over their actions, the better. The more responsibility they can better. The more responsibility they can better. The more responsibility they can take, the better. So, this isn't a take, the better. So, this isn't a take, the better. So, this isn't a criticism of what you just shared. I'm criticism of what you just shared. I'm criticism of what you just shared. I'm just saying there's a bunch of us and just saying there's a bunch of us and just saying there's a bunch of us and there's going to be a lot more research, there's going to be a lot more research, there's going to be a lot more research, probably a full survey done on this in probably a full survey done on this in probably a full survey done on this in 2026 so we can understand young men are 2026 so we can understand young men are 2026 so we can understand young men are coming to church and I can totally see

coming to church and I can totally see coming to church and I can totally see that message resonating with them. that message resonating with them. that message resonating with them. >> But young women are leaving and they're >> But young women are leaving and they're >> But young women are leaving and they're not just leaving church attendance. not just leaving church attendance. not just leaving church attendance. They're not reading their Bibles as They're not reading their Bibles as They're not reading their Bibles as frequently. Now, there are exceptions to frequently. Now, there are exceptions to frequently. Now, there are exceptions to the rule. There's still women in church. the rule. There's still women in church. the rule. There's still women in church. There's still Gen Z women and younger There's still Gen Z women and younger There's still Gen Z women and younger millennial women who who are part of the millennial women who who are part of the millennial women who who are part of the church. But, church. But, church. But, >> you know, people are trying to figure >> you know, people are trying to figure >> you know, people are trying to figure out why. And anecdotally, it's things out why. And anecdotally, it's things out why. And anecdotally, it's things like, "Yeah, man, it's bro culture. It's like, "Yeah, man, it's bro culture. It's like, "Yeah, man, it's bro culture. It's like toxic male culture." Where in your like toxic male culture." Where in your like toxic male culture." Where in your mind is a line between, you know, where mind is a line between, you know, where mind is a line between, you know, where you've got a brotherhood of men you've got a brotherhood of men you've got a brotherhood of men attending church and we end up with a attending church and we end up with a attending church and we end up with a bro culture that that tinges on on on bro culture that that tinges on on on bro culture that that tinges on on on toxic. I think when men start acting toxic. I think when men start acting toxic. I think when men start acting like victims because of modern women and like victims because of modern women and like victims because of modern women and then now you're just complaining about then now you're just complaining about then now you're just complaining about the system and the women, I think that's the system and the women, I think that's the system and the women, I think that's when it easily turns into bro culture. when it easily turns into bro culture. when it easily turns into bro culture. So when some of that red pill Andrew So when some of that red pill Andrew So when some of that red pill Andrew Tate mentality slips in and now we're Tate mentality slips in and now we're Tate mentality slips in and now we're just talking about how bad women are, I just talking about how bad women are, I just talking about how bad women are, I think that that like that's instantly think that that like that's instantly think that that like that's instantly like I'm checked out versus saying like I'm checked out versus saying like I'm checked out versus saying >> let's develop ourselves to be the >> let's develop ourselves to be the >> let's develop ourselves to be the priest, provider, and protectors priest, provider, and protectors priest, provider, and protectors >> and and >> and and >> and and >> honor women. honor women.

>> honor women. honor women. >> honor women. honor women. >> And big shocker, when women are around >> And big shocker, when women are around >> And big shocker, when women are around competent men who love Jesus and have competent men who love Jesus and have competent men who love Jesus and have proven themselves to be competent, they proven themselves to be competent, they proven themselves to be competent, they tend to not have as many reservations tend to not have as many reservations tend to not have as many reservations about sliding into a feminine frame. about sliding into a feminine frame. about sliding into a feminine frame. >> That's been my experience across the >> That's been my experience across the >> That's been my experience across the board. So, it's like women who are like, board. So, it's like women who are like, board. So, it's like women who are like, "Boss babe, I'm going to go be educated "Boss babe, I'm going to go be educated "Boss babe, I'm going to go be educated and have a job my entire life." And then and have a job my entire life." And then and have a job my entire life." And then it's like, well, when they get around a it's like, well, when they get around a it's like, well, when they get around a man that goes, "No, no, no, I got this. man that goes, "No, no, no, I got this. man that goes, "No, no, no, I got this. I can figure out the finances. When we I can figure out the finances. When we I can figure out the finances. When we have kids, you can stay home." So, is have kids, you can stay home." So, is have kids, you can stay home." So, is that your view? You think like that your view? You think like that your view? You think like ultimately every man should provide at a ultimately every man should provide at a ultimately every man should provide at a level that women don't work in the level that women don't work in the level that women don't work in the marketplace or marketplace or marketplace or >> Yeah. Now, now this is get get dicey. >> Yeah. Now, now this is get get dicey. >> Yeah. Now, now this is get get dicey. It's not that that that's my opinion. It's not that that that's my opinion. It's not that that that's my opinion. It's that anytime I've looked at the It's that anytime I've looked at the It's that anytime I've looked at the data and Forbes women did a study on data and Forbes women did a study on data and Forbes women did a study on this, there's been quite a few studies this, there's been quite a few studies this, there's been quite a few studies done on this. Um, whenever you look at done on this. Um, whenever you look at done on this. Um, whenever you look at the data, the vast majority, I'm talking the data, the vast majority, I'm talking the data, the vast majority, I'm talking 70 to 80% of of working women say that 70 to 80% of of working women say that 70 to 80% of of working women say that they Forbes women said they aspire to they Forbes women said they aspire to they Forbes women said they aspire to stay home for a season when they have stay home for a season when they have stay home for a season when they have little kids. This is Forbes working little kids. This is Forbes working little kids. This is Forbes working women, women, women, >> right? I can see that they did a study, >> right? I can see that they did a study, >> right? I can see that they did a study, I want to say during COVID, I want to say during COVID, I want to say during COVID, >> uh I I have to track this one down. And >> uh I I have to track this one down. And >> uh I I have to track this one down. And they surveyed working women with kids 18 they surveyed working women with kids 18 they surveyed working women with kids 18 and under, and they found out that in and under, and they found out that in and under, and they found out that in the in in in the 56% range of working the in in in the 56% range of working the in in in the 56% range of working women with kids 18 and under said they women with kids 18 and under said they women with kids 18 and under said they would have preferred to stay home had would have preferred to stay home had would have preferred to stay home had they been given the opportunity to. So, they been given the opportunity to. So, they been given the opportunity to. So, I think that generally speaking, women I think that generally speaking, women I think that generally speaking, women who have kids are generally speaking who have kids are generally speaking who have kids are generally speaking going to say, "Do you want me to rush going to say, "Do you want me to rush going to say, "Do you want me to rush back to work in 12 weeks after this back to work in 12 weeks after this back to work in 12 weeks after this maternity leave is gone?"

maternity leave is gone?" maternity leave is gone?" >> Or six. >> Or six. >> Or six. >> Yeah. Or six as often. Like, for what? >> Yeah. Or six as often. Like, for what? >> Yeah. Or six as often. Like, for what? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> To get back on a on a and and I think we >> To get back on a on a and and I think we >> To get back on a on a and and I think we don't you don't most folks don't know don't you don't most folks don't know don't you don't most folks don't know this because I like we just had a baby this because I like we just had a baby this because I like we just had a baby and I think people see my see our kid and I think people see my see our kid and I think people see my see our kid and they go, "Oh, I forgot how little and they go, "Oh, I forgot how little and they go, "Oh, I forgot how little babies are." [laughter] Cuz you see them babies are." [laughter] Cuz you see them babies are." [laughter] Cuz you see them in the movies and they're like, "Right." in the movies and they're like, "Right." in the movies and they're like, "Right." And you but you see a real newborn and And you but you see a real newborn and And you but you see a real newborn and then you go you see a six week old. then you go you see a six week old. then you go you see a six week old. Yeah. You see a six week old, eight week Yeah. You see a six week old, eight week Yeah. You see a six week old, eight week old. And you mean to tell me old. And you mean to tell me old. And you mean to tell me >> that what's best for for for women and >> that what's best for for for women and >> that what's best for for for women and men and the family men and the family men and the family >> is to go take that baby and give it to a >> is to go take that baby and give it to a >> is to go take that baby and give it to a stranger stranger stranger >> to raise it at 6 weeks, 8 weeks, 12 >> to raise it at 6 weeks, 8 weeks, 12 >> to raise it at 6 weeks, 8 weeks, 12 weeks, whatever the number is. I I I weeks, whatever the number is. I I I weeks, whatever the number is. I I I just don't buy that. I don't think I just don't buy that. I don't think I just don't buy that. I don't think I don't think that's how generally, again, don't think that's how generally, again, don't think that's how generally, again, I'm speaking generalities. Generally how I'm speaking generalities. Generally how I'm speaking generalities. Generally how women are wired after they carry this women are wired after they carry this women are wired after they carry this thing for 9 months, they push it out and thing for 9 months, they push it out and thing for 9 months, they push it out and then they're like, "Do you want me to go then they're like, "Do you want me to go then they're like, "Do you want me to go back to work?" I I I I just don't see back to work?" I I I I just don't see back to work?" I I I I just don't see it. I think they go out of work out of it. I think they go out of work out of it. I think they go out of work out of necessity, not because they they they necessity, not because they they they necessity, not because they they they want to. Um, now there are again want to. Um, now there are again want to. Um, now there are again exceptions to the rules. There there are exceptions to the rules. There there are exceptions to the rules. There there are women that are entrepreneurs. There are women that are entrepreneurs. There are women that are entrepreneurs. There are women that work from home. There are women that work from home. There are women that work from home. There are women that do all sorts of stuff. And women that do all sorts of stuff. And women that do all sorts of stuff. And and I think another thing is like and I think another thing is like and I think another thing is like assuming that assuming that assuming that >> staying home is not work. >> staying home is not work. >> staying home is not work. >> Like let me tell you, my wife works >> Like let me tell you, my wife works >> Like let me tell you, my wife works substantially harder than I do.

substantially harder than I do. substantially harder than I do. >> Substantially harder. She she she right >> Substantially harder. She she she right >> Substantially harder. She she she right now is in the other room with our now is in the other room with our now is in the other room with our four-week old. She's making sure my son four-week old. She's making sure my son four-week old. She's making sure my son is getting his home school done and she is getting his home school done and she is getting his home school done and she helps out with making the sure the helps out with making the sure the helps out with making the sure the orders are printed and going out when orders are printed and going out when orders are printed and going out when someone comes in and fulfills all of our someone comes in and fulfills all of our someone comes in and fulfills all of our orders like and she's doing a kids choir orders like and she's doing a kids choir orders like and she's doing a kids choir and and she's she's making meals like and and she's she's making meals like and and she's she's making meals like she works way harder. So this idea like she works way harder. So this idea like she works way harder. So this idea like women don't work. No, no, it's like what women don't work. No, no, it's like what women don't work. No, no, it's like what what kind of life do you want to have, what kind of life do you want to have, what kind of life do you want to have, you know? So you know? So you know? So >> yeah. And just a note for regular >> yeah. And just a note for regular >> yeah. And just a note for regular listeners, viewers, hey, we're talking listeners, viewers, hey, we're talking listeners, viewers, hey, we're talking about this with women on the podcast, about this with women on the podcast, about this with women on the podcast, not just two guys [clears throat] not just two guys [clears throat] not just two guys [clears throat] >> imagining why women are leaving the >> imagining why women are leaving the >> imagining why women are leaving the church. So that's coming up to an church. So that's coming up to an church. So that's coming up to an episode near you. Anything else on young episode near you. Anything else on young episode near you. Anything else on young men embracing the church and why we see men embracing the church and why we see men embracing the church and why we see a surge in young men attending? a surge in young men attending? a surge in young men attending? >> I think >> I think >> I think I think what we're going to see I think what we're going to see I think what we're going to see as the world gets more polarized is that as the world gets more polarized is that as the world gets more polarized is that men are going to ultimately men are going to ultimately men are going to ultimately become less and less apologetic about become less and less apologetic about become less and less apologetic about being men. So, this idea that like toxic being men. So, this idea that like toxic being men. So, this idea that like toxic masculinity, all that sort, like I I masculinity, all that sort, like I I masculinity, all that sort, like I I think they're done with that. I think I think they're done with that. I think I think they're done with that. I think I think that I think that that's over.

think that I think that that's over. think that I think that that's over. Like, don't don't tell me I'm toxic Like, don't don't tell me I'm toxic Like, don't don't tell me I'm toxic because like I want to be strong and because like I want to be strong and because like I want to be strong and competent and provide. Like, that's competent and provide. Like, that's competent and provide. Like, that's gross. Now, are there aspects of some gross. Now, are there aspects of some gross. Now, are there aspects of some men that can be toxic? For sure. Just men that can be toxic? For sure. Just men that can be toxic? For sure. Just like there are aspects of some women like there are aspects of some women like there are aspects of some women that can be toxic. that can be toxic. that can be toxic. >> Well, there's toxic people. >> Well, there's toxic people. >> Well, there's toxic people. >> There's toxic people. There's toxic >> There's toxic people. There's toxic >> There's toxic people. There's toxic people and and there is toxic behavior people and and there is toxic behavior people and and there is toxic behavior uh amongst genders that is different, uh amongst genders that is different, uh amongst genders that is different, right? Uh I think with men it tends to right? Uh I think with men it tends to right? Uh I think with men it tends to be really connected to porn and really be really connected to porn and really be really connected to porn and really connected to just just the uh the the connected to just just the uh the the connected to just just the uh the the the object objectification of women as the object objectification of women as the object objectification of women as just objects, right? Like that would be just objects, right? Like that would be just objects, right? Like that would be how I would say this toxic form of how I would say this toxic form of how I would say this toxic form of masculinity, but I think with women can masculinity, but I think with women can masculinity, but I think with women can be toxic in different ways, right? And I be toxic in different ways, right? And I be toxic in different ways, right? And I think people are afraid to talk about think people are afraid to talk about think people are afraid to talk about that and it's like I think it's okay to that and it's like I think it's okay to that and it's like I think it's okay to talk about it. talk about it. talk about it. >> Yeah. What what what's your message to >> Yeah. What what what's your message to >> Yeah. What what what's your message to young men around porn? young men around porn? young men around porn? >> Cut it out. Wage war. Yeah. Yeah. Wage >> Cut it out. Wage war. Yeah. Yeah. Wage >> Cut it out. Wage war. Yeah. Yeah. Wage war as someone that has struggled. war as someone that has struggled. war as someone that has struggled. >> And is there any success? I was talking >> And is there any success? I was talking >> And is there any success? I was talking about this recently like I think I think about this recently like I think I think about this recently like I think I think I mean I'm not saying it's not ever an I mean I'm not saying it's not ever an I mean I'm not saying it's not ever an issue or has been in my life, but issue or has been in my life, but issue or has been in my life, but [clears throat] it was so hard in my [clears throat] it was so hard in my [clears throat] it was so hard in my formative years formative years formative years >> to get pornography. There was no >> to get pornography. There was no >> to get pornography. There was no internet. You had to go buy it. I didn't internet. You had to go buy it. I didn't internet. You had to go buy it. I didn't have the guts. have the guts. have the guts. >> So I never got hooked. You know, it's >> So I never got hooked. You know, it's >> So I never got hooked. You know, it's not like I've never seen it, but it's not like I've never seen it, but it's not like I've never seen it, but it's like I got a list of issues. Porn isn't like I got a list of issues. Porn isn't like I got a list of issues. Porn isn't >> sure >> sure >> sure >> on my list of of of issues that I >> on my list of of of issues that I >> on my list of of of issues that I struggle with on a regular basis. Yeah, struggle with on a regular basis. Yeah, struggle with on a regular basis. Yeah, >> but >> but >> but young adult males, young adult males, young adult males, you know, pastors are like, "Cut it you know, pastors are like, "Cut it you know, pastors are like, "Cut it out."

>> I what's resonating is is twofold. I >> I what's resonating is is twofold. I I'll I'll give you some tactical stuff I'll I'll give you some tactical stuff I'll I'll give you some tactical stuff of what I do and I have and I have of what I do and I have and I have of what I do and I have and I have struggled. Um struggled. Um struggled. Um >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> one is I think primarily what it has to >> one is I think primarily what it has to >> one is I think primarily what it has to go back to is the law of replacement. go back to is the law of replacement. go back to is the law of replacement. You can't just remove, you got to You can't just remove, you got to You can't just remove, you got to replace with something better. And if replace with something better. And if replace with something better. And if you're young, you if you're, you know, you're young, you if you're, you know, you're young, you if you're, you know, 18 to 25, your your testosterone is is 18 to 25, your your testosterone is is 18 to 25, your your testosterone is is just pumping through your veins, just pumping through your veins, just pumping through your veins, surging. Uh you have to replace it with surging. Uh you have to replace it with surging. Uh you have to replace it with something better. This is why it's great something better. This is why it's great something better. This is why it's great to build yourself up, whether that's to build yourself up, whether that's to build yourself up, whether that's physically, start training or learning physically, start training or learning physically, start training or learning new skills, working hard with your new skills, working hard with your new skills, working hard with your hands, like do something. hands, like do something. hands, like do something. >> Sitting around on your phone all day is >> Sitting around on your phone all day is >> Sitting around on your phone all day is not going to help. not going to help. not going to help. >> Yeah. So, so I think the law of >> Yeah. So, so I think the law of >> Yeah. So, so I think the law of replacement, find something better. For replacement, find something better. For replacement, find something better. For me, uh, it it was a holistic approach of me, uh, it it was a holistic approach of me, uh, it it was a holistic approach of therapy and strength training and waking therapy and strength training and waking therapy and strength training and waking up earlier and going to bed earlier and up earlier and going to bed earlier and up earlier and going to bed earlier and going to like like a holistic approach going to like like a holistic approach going to like like a holistic approach to all life reboot. to all life reboot. to all life reboot. >> Yeah. A life reboot. Like completely >> Yeah. A life reboot. Like completely >> Yeah. A life reboot. Like completely rebooting um in in every regard. And so, rebooting um in in every regard. And so, rebooting um in in every regard. And so, but it was really what the the the the but it was really what the the the the but it was really what the the the the breakthrough came when I had something breakthrough came when I had something breakthrough came when I had something better to do, when I had something more better to do, when I had something more better to do, when I had something more fulfilling to do. Because I think fulfilling to do. Because I think fulfilling to do. Because I think sometimes these things are are these sometimes these things are are these sometimes these things are are these self-destructive things are really self-destructive things are really self-destructive things are really because the the root of it is because we because the the root of it is because we because the the root of it is because we feel inadequate. We feel like we have no feel inadequate. We feel like we have no feel inadequate. We feel like we have no value. We feel like we have no purpose.

value. We feel like we have no purpose. value. We feel like we have no purpose. Once you start working through and Once you start working through and Once you start working through and feeling competent and feeling confident, feeling competent and feeling confident, feeling competent and feeling confident, often times the these peripheral things often times the these peripheral things often times the these peripheral things should fall away. They don't always if should fall away. They don't always if should fall away. They don't always if you have trauma like I was sexually you have trauma like I was sexually you have trauma like I was sexually assaulted as a kid, you might got to go assaulted as a kid, you might got to go assaulted as a kid, you might got to go to therapy. You might really need some to therapy. You might really need some to therapy. You might really need some help and it might be something that you help and it might be something that you help and it might be something that you just are always being attentive to. just are always being attentive to. just are always being attentive to. practically uh we talked about taking, practically uh we talked about taking, practically uh we talked about taking, you know, cutting down device time. I'd you know, cutting down device time. I'd you know, cutting down device time. I'd say for me, I don't have any social say for me, I don't have any social say for me, I don't have any social media on my phone. So, so no Tik Tok, no media on my phone. So, so no Tik Tok, no media on my phone. So, so no Tik Tok, no Instagram, no X, especially no X. Take X Instagram, no X, especially no X. Take X Instagram, no X, especially no X. Take X off your phone. off your phone. off your phone. >> Take it all off your phone. I have the >> Take it all off your phone. I have the >> Take it all off your phone. I have the ability to get access to it on a browser ability to get access to it on a browser ability to get access to it on a browser if I need to or on a like a business if I need to or on a like a business if I need to or on a like a business iPad like where I have Instagram iPad like where I have Instagram iPad like where I have Instagram installed. So, I'll say you don't need installed. So, I'll say you don't need installed. So, I'll say you don't need social media. Take it all off your social media. Take it all off your social media. Take it all off your phone. phone. phone. >> Even though you're a social media >> Even though you're a social media >> Even though you're a social media influencer, you don't have social media influencer, you don't have social media influencer, you don't have social media on your phone. on your phone. on your phone. >> I don't I don't have any social media on >> I don't I don't have any social media on >> I don't I don't have any social media on my phone. Uh, I have my phone. Uh, I have my phone. Uh, I have >> Why not? >> Why not? >> Why not? >> Uh, cuz cuz I have an addictive >> Uh, cuz cuz I have an addictive >> Uh, cuz cuz I have an addictive personality and it I can easily be on personality and it I can easily be on personality and it I can easily be on Instagram and I could see something and Instagram and I could see something and Instagram and I could see something and it could trigger a thought and then that it could trigger a thought and then that it could trigger a thought and then that thought could trigger another thought thought could trigger another thought thought could trigger another thought and before I know it, I'm looking at and before I know it, I'm looking at and before I know it, I'm looking at stuff I shouldn't be looking at and that stuff I shouldn't be looking at and that stuff I shouldn't be looking at and that could be the precursor to full-on porn. could be the precursor to full-on porn. could be the precursor to full-on porn. And so, I'm just like, hey, I'm just And so, I'm just like, hey, I'm just And so, I'm just like, hey, I'm just going to cut this completely out and I going to cut this completely out and I going to cut this completely out and I don't even have access to it on my phone don't even have access to it on my phone don't even have access to it on my phone at at any given time. Uh, so yeah, I at at any given time. Uh, so yeah, I at at any given time. Uh, so yeah, I would say take it off your phone. Uh would say take it off your phone. Uh would say take it off your phone. Uh within the Apple device, some people within the Apple device, some people within the Apple device, some people like Covenant Eyes. Within the Apple like Covenant Eyes. Within the Apple like Covenant Eyes. Within the Apple ecosystem, you can create a block lists ecosystem, you can create a block lists ecosystem, you can create a block lists of websites. You can create screen time of websites. You can create screen time of websites. You can create screen time limits for apps and you can give someone limits for apps and you can give someone limits for apps and you can give someone else the passcode, else the passcode, else the passcode, >> right?

>> right? >> right? >> So, I have Instagram off my phone, but >> So, I have Instagram off my phone, but >> So, I have Instagram off my phone, but even the web browser version, because I even the web browser version, because I even the web browser version, because I had the uh screen time limitations, I had the uh screen time limitations, I had the uh screen time limitations, I get 30 minutes on the web browser. So, I get 30 minutes on the web browser. So, I get 30 minutes on the web browser. So, I I only get a limited time to check my I only get a limited time to check my I only get a limited time to check my DMs and then I'm done, right? And then DMs and then I'm done, right? And then DMs and then I'm done, right? And then you can give someone else that password. you can give someone else that password. you can give someone else that password. So you can lock down your phone. No So you can lock down your phone. No So you can lock down your phone. No privacy uh what is it? The incognito privacy uh what is it? The incognito privacy uh what is it? The incognito window. No incognito window. Uh and window. No incognito window. Uh and window. No incognito window. Uh and really lock it down hardcore. And so really lock it down hardcore. And so really lock it down hardcore. And so that's that's what I've done with my that's that's what I've done with my that's that's what I've done with my phone. And it's just I'm just trying to phone. And it's just I'm just trying to phone. And it's just I'm just trying to eliminate the opportunity for eliminate the opportunity for eliminate the opportunity for temptation, you know? And temptation, you know? And temptation, you know? And [clears throat] I think that's those are [clears throat] I think that's those are [clears throat] I think that's those are some practical things. And then yeah, some practical things. And then yeah, some practical things. And then yeah, get in the gym. Like get in the gym, get in the gym. Like get in the gym, get in the gym. Like get in the gym, start strength training, start taking start strength training, start taking start strength training, start taking care of your body, go outside, touch care of your body, go outside, touch care of your body, go outside, touch grass, talk to friends, build community. grass, talk to friends, build community. grass, talk to friends, build community. Like those things I think are huge for Like those things I think are huge for Like those things I think are huge for for conquering that. And I think for for conquering that. And I think for for conquering that. And I think for those of us who have pre-digital memory those of us who have pre-digital memory those of us who have pre-digital memory like I do, like I do, like I do, >> we don't realize what a digital world >> we don't realize what a digital world >> we don't realize what a digital world does to you, right? Because you're not does to you, right? Because you're not does to you, right? Because you're not touching grass. You're not in the gym. touching grass. You're not in the gym. touching grass. You're not in the gym. You're not connecting with real people. You're not connecting with real people. You're not connecting with real people. What are you learning about young adults What are you learning about young adults What are you learning about young adults in relationship in relationship in relationship >> in real life versus online? >> in real life versus online? >> in real life versus online? >> I see a lot of people that want to date, >> I see a lot of people that want to date, >> I see a lot of people that want to date, that want to say they want to get that want to say they want to get that want to say they want to get married, say they want to meet people.

married, say they want to meet people. married, say they want to meet people. Yeah. And what I'm seeing, what I've Yeah. And what I'm seeing, what I've Yeah. And what I'm seeing, what I've seen, I say for the last decade, the seen, I say for the last decade, the seen, I say for the last decade, the people that I'm seeing that are actually people that I'm seeing that are actually people that I'm seeing that are actually getting married and getting married well getting married and getting married well getting married and getting married well aren't, believe it or not, folks that aren't, believe it or not, folks that aren't, believe it or not, folks that are attending young adults ministries. are attending young adults ministries. are attending young adults ministries. They're meeting people outside of the They're meeting people outside of the They're meeting people outside of the person. Yeah. In person, person. Yeah. In person, person. Yeah. In person, >> in church with other people around, >> in church with other people around, >> in church with other people around, >> hopefully with trust of those other >> hopefully with trust of those other >> hopefully with trust of those other people so that if you have other friends people so that if you have other friends people so that if you have other friends around, they can sniff out the toxic around, they can sniff out the toxic around, they can sniff out the toxic person, person, person, >> right? right? They can sniff out. We we >> right? right? They can sniff out. We we >> right? right? They can sniff out. We we call them um chameleons, people that call them um chameleons, people that call them um chameleons, people that pretend to be Christian, but they're not pretend to be Christian, but they're not pretend to be Christian, but they're not fully living it out, right? They'll just fully living it out, right? They'll just fully living it out, right? They'll just kind of adapt to their environments. You kind of adapt to their environments. You kind of adapt to their environments. You can you you need a church around you to can you you need a church around you to can you you need a church around you to sniff those people out. And so, I've sniff those people out. And so, I've sniff those people out. And so, I've I've seen that be the most successful of I've seen that be the most successful of I've seen that be the most successful of people in local churches. And we're people in local churches. And we're people in local churches. And we're we're fortunate here. We're in Oceanside we're fortunate here. We're in Oceanside we're fortunate here. We're in Oceanside Vista area. Um there's a lot of great Vista area. Um there's a lot of great Vista area. Um there's a lot of great young adults ministries. Like you have young adults ministries. Like you have young adults ministries. Like you have the Jordan, which is here at North Coast the Jordan, which is here at North Coast the Jordan, which is here at North Coast Church down the street. Church down the street. Church down the street. >> Rhythm has a great young adults >> Rhythm has a great young adults >> Rhythm has a great young adults ministry. Uh Chris Hilin has a great ministry. Uh Chris Hilin has a great ministry. Uh Chris Hilin has a great young adult ministry over there in San young adult ministry over there in San young adult ministry over there in San Diego. So there's a lot of really good Diego. So there's a lot of really good Diego. So there's a lot of really good young adults ministry where people are young adults ministry where people are young adults ministry where people are meeting people.

meeting people. meeting people. >> Back to the algorithm for a moment, you >> Back to the algorithm for a moment, you >> Back to the algorithm for a moment, you know, as we think about where we started know, as we think about where we started know, as we think about where we started today. today. today. >> Um I think everybody I know wants to get >> Um I think everybody I know wants to get >> Um I think everybody I know wants to get more traction online and as much as you more traction online and as much as you more traction online and as much as you got your phone in lockdown, you probably got your phone in lockdown, you probably got your phone in lockdown, you probably want your YouTube channel to grow. You want your YouTube channel to grow. You want your YouTube channel to grow. You probably want your podcast to grow. You probably want your podcast to grow. You probably want your podcast to grow. You probably, you know, we're all we're all probably, you know, we're all we're all probably, you know, we're all we're all that way. And on a good day, it's that way. And on a good day, it's that way. And on a good day, it's because we want to reach more people. on because we want to reach more people. on because we want to reach more people. on a bad day, all of our motives are mixed. a bad day, all of our motives are mixed. a bad day, all of our motives are mixed. I get it. I get it. I get it. >> How do you know? Because there are >> How do you know? Because there are >> How do you know? Because there are things you can do to get more clicks. I things you can do to get more clicks. I things you can do to get more clicks. I know what buttons to push know what buttons to push know what buttons to push >> to spike a video, to spike a podcast. I >> to spike a video, to spike a podcast. I >> to spike a video, to spike a podcast. I actually try to avoid it. [laughter] actually try to avoid it. [laughter] actually try to avoid it. [laughter] >> I really do because, you know, be >> I really do because, you know, be >> I really do because, you know, be careful what you get known for. But how careful what you get known for. But how careful what you get known for. But how do you draw the line between, hey, I I do you draw the line between, hey, I I do you draw the line between, hey, I I am doing this because I think it's the am doing this because I think it's the am doing this because I think it's the right thing to do or I'm just pressing right thing to do or I'm just pressing right thing to do or I'm just pressing this button. so I can get more clicks, this button. so I can get more clicks, this button. so I can get more clicks, more likes, more followthroughs, more likes, more followthroughs, more likes, more followthroughs, ultimately more money. ultimately more money. ultimately more money. >> Yeah. I mean, that that's that's an >> Yeah. I mean, that that's that's an >> Yeah. I mean, that that's that's an issue of the heart, you know, that's an issue of the heart, you know, that's an issue of the heart, you know, that's an issue of the heart is like issue of the heart is like issue of the heart is like >> how how do you know only I think only >> how how do you know only I think only >> how how do you know only I think only you and God knows sometimes, right? And you and God knows sometimes, right? And you and God knows sometimes, right? And and I think I would argue that sometimes and I think I would argue that sometimes and I think I would argue that sometimes our own motives can be conflicted on our own motives can be conflicted on our own motives can be conflicted on things things things >> every day. So, I think we could be like, >> every day. So, I think we could be like, >> every day. So, I think we could be like, "Oh man, like I'm I'm doing this for the "Oh man, like I'm I'm doing this for the "Oh man, like I'm I'm doing this for the Lord." It's like, "Are you really?" You Lord." It's like, "Are you really?" You Lord." It's like, "Are you really?" You know? Uh know? Uh know? Uh >> what's that test for you? because >> what's that test for you? because >> what's that test for you? because obviously you're somebody who's smart.

obviously you're somebody who's smart. obviously you're somebody who's smart. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> You have a great studio. >> You have a great studio. >> You have a great studio. >> You study strategy. >> You study strategy. >> You study strategy. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Where is that line for you? >> Where is that line for you? >> Where is that line for you? >> I think for me >> I think for me >> I think for me the line would be I I genuinely am the line would be I I genuinely am the line would be I I genuinely am trying to do what we call net positive trying to do what we call net positive trying to do what we call net positive content. So even if I'm starting with a content. So even if I'm starting with a content. So even if I'm starting with a negative story negative story negative story >> like the whole Candace Owen Quentes >> like the whole Candace Owen Quentes >> like the whole Candace Owen Quentes >> thing, this is rotting your brain. Don't >> thing, this is rotting your brain. Don't >> thing, this is rotting your brain. Don't do it. Okay. do it. Okay. do it. Okay. >> And then we're introducing scripture. >> And then we're introducing scripture. >> And then we're introducing scripture. And then we're introducing later on And then we're introducing later on And then we're introducing later on we're introducing something more we're introducing something more we're introducing something more wholesome, something more uplifting, wholesome, something more uplifting, wholesome, something more uplifting, something beautiful uh in in the video. something beautiful uh in in the video. something beautiful uh in in the video. So that's kind of like a like I try not So that's kind of like a like I try not So that's kind of like a like I try not to make videos where I'm just railing to make videos where I'm just railing to make videos where I'm just railing against someone and I'm just attacking against someone and I'm just attacking against someone and I'm just attacking someone. I don't think that's healthy to someone. I don't think that's healthy to someone. I don't think that's healthy to make. I don't think that's good. Um I I make. I don't think that's good. Um I I make. I don't think that's good. Um I I I'm I'm trying to be open to like if a I'm I'm trying to be open to like if a I'm I'm trying to be open to like if a if a title or a thumbnail is too if a title or a thumbnail is too if a title or a thumbnail is too sensational and my own community will sensational and my own community will sensational and my own community will tell me like ah you know uh I'll change tell me like ah you know uh I'll change tell me like ah you know uh I'll change it, right? it, right? it, right? >> You know, I'll change it >> You know, I'll change it >> You know, I'll change it >> because you get all those reaction. I >> because you get all those reaction. I >> because you get all those reaction. I don't know what you know the thumbnail don't know what you know the thumbnail don't know what you know the thumbnail and I'm like and I'm like and I'm like >> and you're like >> and you're like >> and you're like >> right you all these expressions and >> right you all these expressions and >> right you all these expressions and >> I did a video recently responding to uh >> I did a video recently responding to uh >> I did a video recently responding to uh a a creator named Jonathan Allen who's a a creator named Jonathan Allen who's a a creator named Jonathan Allen who's who's awesome by the way. He's a guy who's awesome by the way. He's a guy who's awesome by the way. He's a guy I've gotten to know him and he did this I've gotten to know him and he did this I've gotten to know him and he did this really wellexecuted expose on Forest really wellexecuted expose on Forest really wellexecuted expose on Forest Frank who's a who's a friend of mine Frank who's a who's a friend of mine Frank who's a who's a friend of mine >> and in the video he approached the >> and in the video he approached the >> and in the video he approached the conversation of like hey these are the conversation of like hey these are the conversation of like hey these are the questions people are asking and then questions people are asking and then questions people are asking and then >> but most in my opinion most of the >> but most in my opinion most of the >> but most in my opinion most of the questions are bad faith questions and so questions are bad faith questions and so questions are bad faith questions and so Jonathan didn't really in infuse enough Jonathan didn't really in infuse enough Jonathan didn't really in infuse enough of his opinion in it so he just kind of

of his opinion in it so he just kind of of his opinion in it so he just kind of asked all the gripes that people have of asked all the gripes that people have of asked all the gripes that people have of Forest Frank Forest Frank Forest Frank >> and so the when I responded to it and I >> and so the when I responded to it and I >> and so the when I responded to it and I corrected a couple minor things and he corrected a couple minor things and he corrected a couple minor things and he shout out to Jonathan he's a he's a shout out to Jonathan he's a he's a shout out to Jonathan he's a he's a super dope He's since updated and added super dope He's since updated and added super dope He's since updated and added more corrections to the video, just more corrections to the video, just more corrections to the video, just stuff he gotten wrong that he didn't stuff he gotten wrong that he didn't stuff he gotten wrong that he didn't know. Um, when when I had initially know. Um, when when I had initially know. Um, when when I had initially titled the video, I said some we titled titled the video, I said some we titled titled the video, I said some we titled it something like, "Is this Forest Frank it something like, "Is this Forest Frank it something like, "Is this Forest Frank hit piece fair?" Right. And I and then I hit piece fair?" Right. And I and then I hit piece fair?" Right. And I and then I listened to my audience and they were listened to my audience and they were listened to my audience and they were like, "Hey man, like it it wasn't really like, "Hey man, like it it wasn't really like, "Hey man, like it it wasn't really his intent." And Jonathan was like, his intent." And Jonathan was like, his intent." And Jonathan was like, "Man, it wasn't really my intent, you "Man, it wasn't really my intent, you "Man, it wasn't really my intent, you know?" And and so it's like, "You know know?" And and so it's like, "You know know?" And and so it's like, "You know what? Yeah, that wasn't his intent. Let what? Yeah, that wasn't his intent. Let what? Yeah, that wasn't his intent. Let me change the title." So, I just titled me change the title." So, I just titled me change the title." So, I just titled it responding to the most controversial it responding to the most controversial it responding to the most controversial Christian hip-hop artists ever because I Christian hip-hop artists ever because I Christian hip-hop artists ever because I wanted to honor Jonathan even though I wanted to honor Jonathan even though I wanted to honor Jonathan even though I was disagreeing with him and I said, was disagreeing with him and I said, was disagreeing with him and I said, "Hey man, you got this wrong. You got "Hey man, you got this wrong. You got "Hey man, you got this wrong. You got this wrong. You got this wrong. You got this wrong. You got this wrong. You got this wrong. You got this wrong. You got this." And we changed the title because this." And we changed the title because this." And we changed the title because I listened to the audience and I said, I listened to the audience and I said, I listened to the audience and I said, "Hey, I'm not I don't want it to be "Hey, I'm not I don't want it to be "Hey, I'm not I don't want it to be attacking someone because I think attacking someone because I think attacking someone because I think they're attacking my friend. Let's just they're attacking my friend. Let's just they're attacking my friend. Let's just engage with the substance of it." So, engage with the substance of it." So, engage with the substance of it." So, that's that's that's one like is the that's that's that's one like is the that's that's that's one like is the video just attacking someone or is it video just attacking someone or is it video just attacking someone or is it trying to correct someone's behavior? trying to correct someone's behavior? trying to correct someone's behavior? Not not them as a person. I'm not making Not not them as a person. I'm not making Not not them as a person. I'm not making fun of anybody, but I'm correcting their fun of anybody, but I'm correcting their fun of anybody, but I'm correcting their behavior. and then redirecting people to behavior. and then redirecting people to behavior. and then redirecting people to something better.

something better. something better. >> I think you raised a really important >> I think you raised a really important >> I think you raised a really important concept like when we title things and I concept like when we title things and I concept like when we title things and I choose I don't know about every platform choose I don't know about every platform choose I don't know about every platform but like you know I'll I'll create a a but like you know I'll I'll create a a but like you know I'll I'll create a a title for the podcast. I think we title for the podcast. I think we title for the podcast. I think we generally stick to them generally stick to them generally stick to them >> but you want a hook. It's not like you >> but you want a hook. It's not like you >> but you want a hook. It's not like you know my 90minute conversation with know my 90minute conversation with know my 90minute conversation with Rouslon. Rouslon. Rouslon. >> It's like >> It's like >> It's like >> everyone's [snorts] asleep. Yep. >> everyone's [snorts] asleep. Yep. >> everyone's [snorts] asleep. Yep. >> Uh they want to know what the hook is. >> Uh they want to know what the hook is. >> Uh they want to know what the hook is. What's the promise? On the other hand What's the promise? On the other hand What's the promise? On the other hand >> when I'm I'll ask you this question when >> when I'm I'll ask you this question when >> when I'm I'll ask you this question when we're done this interview. Is there we're done this interview. Is there we're done this interview. Is there anything you want deleted? anything that anything you want deleted? anything that anything you want deleted? anything that didn't come out right in your view didn't come out right in your view didn't come out right in your view because I want you to be happy that this because I want you to be happy that this because I want you to be happy that this is on the internet. Second thing is is on the internet. Second thing is is on the internet. Second thing is >> I want there to be a second show. >> I want there to be a second show. >> I want there to be a second show. >> If I hit you up in 6 months or a year or >> If I hit you up in 6 months or a year or >> If I hit you up in 6 months or a year or we keep texting or whatever, we keep texting or whatever, we keep texting or whatever, >> I don't want you to be like a new huff >> I don't want you to be like a new huff >> I don't want you to be like a new huff like my so sorry I went on his show, you like my so sorry I went on his show, you like my so sorry I went on his show, you know. And that's why like yesterday I know. And that's why like yesterday I know. And that's why like yesterday I was at John Mark Comr's house. This is was at John Mark Comr's house. This is was at John Mark Comr's house. This is like round five or six with John Mark. I like round five or six with John Mark. I like round five or six with John Mark. I want there to be around seven. want there to be around seven. want there to be around seven. >> And that I assume everybody talked about >> And that I assume everybody talked about >> And that I assume everybody talked about in a video, everybody talked about in in a video, everybody talked about in in a video, everybody talked about in anything anything anything >> me and my team do is reading it.

>> me and my team do is reading it. >> me and my team do is reading it. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And that I have a relationship with that >> And that I have a relationship with that >> And that I have a relationship with that person. person. person. >> Does that make sense as a filter? >> Does that make sense as a filter? >> Does that make sense as a filter? >> Yeah. No, I love that. I love that. I >> Yeah. No, I love that. I love that. I >> Yeah. No, I love that. I love that. I think think think >> Or am I too soft? >> Or am I too soft? >> Or am I too soft? >> No, I don't think you're too soft. I >> No, I don't think you're too soft. I >> No, I don't think you're too soft. I think if if you're primarily engaging think if if you're primarily engaging think if if you're primarily engaging with other guests with other guests with other guests >> Yeah. I think it is absolutely important >> Yeah. I think it is absolutely important >> Yeah. I think it is absolutely important to one thing solo episodes too, but try to one thing solo episodes too, but try to one thing solo episodes too, but try to figure out is it helpful? to figure out is it helpful? to figure out is it helpful? >> Yeah, I think so. I think it's helpful >> Yeah, I think so. I think it's helpful >> Yeah, I think so. I think it's helpful to want people to come back and keep to want people to come back and keep to want people to come back and keep having conversations with you. Uh, and having conversations with you. Uh, and having conversations with you. Uh, and making sure they're comfortable with making sure they're comfortable with making sure they're comfortable with what's coming out, what's coming out, what's coming out, >> right? Yeah. >> right? Yeah. >> right? Yeah. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> Absolutely. I think that's a great way >> Absolutely. I think that's a great way >> Absolutely. I think that's a great way to go about it. to go about it. to go about it. >> I can see that. And even your friend, >> I can see that. And even your friend, >> I can see that. And even your friend, you know, there have been a few times I you know, there have been a few times I you know, there have been a few times I titled something and I got like text titled something and I got like text titled something and I got like text messages or phone calls from the guest messages or phone calls from the guest messages or phone calls from the guest who's like, I hate that title. I'm like, who's like, I hate that title. I'm like, who's like, I hate that title. I'm like, taking it down. I did exactly what you taking it down. I did exactly what you taking it down. I did exactly what you did and I don't want to get them in did and I don't want to get them in did and I don't want to get them in trouble. trouble. trouble. >> Um, so let's think about the church as >> Um, so let's think about the church as >> Um, so let's think about the church as we kind of wind down. Any other trend we kind of wind down. Any other trend we kind of wind down. Any other trend you're noticing that needs attention you're noticing that needs attention you're noticing that needs attention before I get into something really before I get into something really before I get into something really >> practical? I do want to I do want to >> practical? I do want to I do want to >> practical? I do want to I do want to talk to you about the attractional model talk to you about the attractional model talk to you about the attractional model of your video. of your video. of your video. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You watch that >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You watch that >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You watch that video. Let's talk about it.

video. Let's talk about it. video. Let's talk about it. >> Yeah. So, I Okay. So, here's my here's >> Yeah. So, I Okay. So, here's my here's >> Yeah. So, I Okay. So, here's my here's my thought and I and I want to my thought and I and I want to my thought and I and I want to >> I think I the podcast episode was is >> I think I the podcast episode was is >> I think I the podcast episode was is attractional church dead and I led an attractional church dead and I led an attractional church dead and I led an attractional church. So, hands up. attractional church. So, hands up. attractional church. So, hands up. >> Yeah. I love I love that episode. >> Yeah. I love I love that episode. >> Yeah. I love I love that episode. >> Um and I thought it was good cuz I I >> Um and I thought it was good cuz I I >> Um and I thought it was good cuz I I came to faith at an attractional church, came to faith at an attractional church, came to faith at an attractional church, right? right? right? >> And I think I think that often times >> And I think I think that often times >> And I think I think that often times those churches can get more people in those churches can get more people in those churches can get more people in the door the door the door >> and then as they >> and then as they >> and then as they >> mature, they might end up at a different >> mature, they might end up at a different >> mature, they might end up at a different type of church, right? And I and I think type of church, right? And I and I think type of church, right? And I and I think that's fine. I think God uses that. My that's fine. I think God uses that. My that's fine. I think God uses that. My my macro question to you and I guess my macro question to you and I guess my macro question to you and I guess pastors in general is like, pastors in general is like, pastors in general is like, haven't we had enough examples haven't we had enough examples haven't we had enough examples of folks that aren't being attractional, of folks that aren't being attractional, of folks that aren't being attractional, but it's still working? but it's still working? but it's still working? And isn't there something to that? And And isn't there something to that? And And isn't there something to that? And I'll give you two two examples. One a I'll give you two two examples. One a I'll give you two two examples. One a little older that that that will that little older that that that will that little older that that that will that will trigger a lot of the listeners of will trigger a lot of the listeners of will trigger a lot of the listeners of this and then one a bit more modern. this and then one a bit more modern. this and then one a bit more modern. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um >> Um >> Um >> we loved Mark Driscoll when he was at >> we loved Mark Driscoll when he was at >> we loved Mark Driscoll when he was at Mars Hill. Yeah, loved Mark. Um, he was Mars Hill. Yeah, loved Mark. Um, he was Mars Hill. Yeah, loved Mark. Um, he was unapologetic on all the stuff we talked unapologetic on all the stuff we talked unapologetic on all the stuff we talked about like what what do men need to about like what what do men need to about like what what do men need to hear? He was doing this 15 years ago. He hear? He was doing this 15 years ago. He hear? He was doing this 15 years ago. He was talking about sex. He was talking was talking about sex. He was talking was talking about sex. He was talking about worldview. He was talking about about worldview. He was talking about about worldview. He was talking about polit like he was unapologetic about polit like he was unapologetic about polit like he was unapologetic about this stuff 15 years ago and he was this stuff 15 years ago and he was this stuff 15 years ago and he was scorching hot and men loved him scorching hot and men loved him scorching hot and men loved him >> you know and and he caught a lot of >> you know and and he caught a lot of >> you know and and he caught a lot of backlash and and I don't want to get backlash and and I don't want to get backlash and and I don't want to get into how he left Marcel and all that into how he left Marcel and all that into how he left Marcel and all that sort of stuff what he's doing now but sort of stuff what he's doing now but sort of stuff what he's doing now but like like like >> didn't we have that model of I mean the

>> didn't we have that model of I mean the >> didn't we have that model of I mean the dude is up there for an hour and 10 dude is up there for an hour and 10 dude is up there for an hour and 10 minutes sometimes just preaching hard minutes sometimes just preaching hard minutes sometimes just preaching hard preaching challenging people so that's preaching challenging people so that's preaching challenging people so that's an older example here's a modern example an older example here's a modern example an older example here's a modern example Philip Anthony Mitchell Philip Anthony Mitchell Philip Anthony Mitchell >> I don't know Philip >> I don't know Philip >> I don't know Philip >> yeah Uh 2819 >> yeah Uh 2819 >> yeah Uh 2819 a little bit. Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you. a little bit. Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you. a little bit. Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. On my radar. Should be more Thank you. On my radar. Should be more Thank you. On my radar. Should be more on my radar. on my radar. on my radar. >> He's intense. >> He's intense. >> He's intense. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Black guy in Atlanta. Mixed church, but >> Black guy in Atlanta. Mixed church, but >> Black guy in Atlanta. Mixed church, but a big African-American population at his a big African-American population at his a big African-American population at his church. church. church. >> Man, he did not hold back on Charlie >> Man, he did not hold back on Charlie >> Man, he did not hold back on Charlie Kirk Kirk Kirk >> at the expense of some of his black >> at the expense of some of his black >> at the expense of some of his black audience feeling like, "Oh man, he he audience feeling like, "Oh man, he he audience feeling like, "Oh man, he he said too much. He didn't say it, you said too much. He didn't say it, you said too much. He didn't say it, you know, he didn't he didn't say it nice know, he didn't he didn't say it nice know, he didn't he didn't say it nice enough and wasn't Charlie racist and D." enough and wasn't Charlie racist and D." enough and wasn't Charlie racist and D." and he unloaded about political violence and he unloaded about political violence and he unloaded about political violence and Charlie Kirk and how evil this and Charlie Kirk and how evil this and Charlie Kirk and how evil this generation is and all these things. And generation is and all these things. And generation is and all these things. And so he preaches hard preaches hard so he preaches hard preaches hard so he preaches hard preaches hard repentance preaches hard on on hell on repentance preaches hard on on hell on repentance preaches hard on on hell on sin on all the things the gospel sin on all the things the gospel sin on all the things the gospel centered um a lot in the scripture a lot centered um a lot in the scripture a lot centered um a lot in the scripture a lot in the text right and so my question to in the text right and so my question to in the text right and so my question to folks in like the quote unquote folks in like the quote unquote folks in like the quote unquote attractional model which I don't even attractional model which I don't even attractional model which I don't even know what that's evolved into right know what that's evolved into right know what that's evolved into right >> um >> um >> um >> but like haven't we had enough examples >> but like haven't we had enough examples >> but like haven't we had enough examples of people who are at scale impacting and of people who are at scale impacting and of people who are at scale impacting and with massive churches that we don't with massive churches that we don't with massive churches that we don't necessarily need to walk on eggshells on necessarily need to walk on eggshells on necessarily need to walk on eggshells on some of the more controversial things.

some of the more controversial things. some of the more controversial things. That's topic content wise, but then also That's topic content wise, but then also That's topic content wise, but then also the the bells and whistles and the the the bells and whistles and the the the bells and whistles and the having the dag on roller coaster on having the dag on roller coaster on having the dag on roller coaster on stage and we have a whole series by the stage and we have a whole series by the stage and we have a whole series by the way. way. way. >> Yeah. Yeah. We've seen that, right? We >> Yeah. Yeah. We've seen that, right? We >> Yeah. Yeah. We've seen that, right? We we [clears throat] have a whole series we [clears throat] have a whole series we [clears throat] have a whole series uh and and uh some of you guys may uh and and uh some of you guys may uh and and uh some of you guys may appreciate this now. So, we have a appreciate this now. So, we have a appreciate this now. So, we have a challenge to ourselves. This is total challenge to ourselves. This is total challenge to ourselves. This is total side note. side note. side note. >> It's called um megaurch shenanigans, but >> It's called um megaurch shenanigans, but >> It's called um megaurch shenanigans, but we can only say nice things. So, we'll we can only say nice things. So, we'll we can only say nice things. So, we'll find like funny things that a megaurch find like funny things that a megaurch find like funny things that a megaurch does and then we but we can only does and then we but we can only does and then we but we can only compliment them. And so it's it's it's compliment them. And so it's it's it's compliment them. And so it's it's it's kind of tongue and cheek, but we kind of tongue and cheek, but we kind of tongue and cheek, but we genuinely are trying to compliment just genuinely are trying to compliment just genuinely are trying to compliment just that. And so like, haven't there been that. And so like, haven't there been that. And so like, haven't there been enough examples of, hey, you don't have enough examples of, hey, you don't have enough examples of, hey, you don't have to omit certain aspects? I was talking to omit certain aspects? I was talking to omit certain aspects? I was talking to a very influential to a very influential to a very influential uh pastor who was trying to get another uh pastor who was trying to get another uh pastor who was trying to get another very influential pastor on my show and very influential pastor on my show and very influential pastor on my show and said he would not talk to me about said he would not talk to me about said he would not talk to me about abortion or homosexuality. abortion or homosexuality. abortion or homosexuality. >> I'll tell you who it is off off offline. >> I'll tell you who it is off off offline. >> I'll tell you who it is off off offline. And I said, "No, we're not. No, And I said, "No, we're not. No, And I said, "No, we're not. No, >> we're not going to sit down and not talk >> we're not going to sit down and not talk >> we're not going to sit down and not talk about those things. I have questions for about those things. I have questions for about those things. I have questions for you. Why have you why have you not done you. Why have you why have you not done you. Why have you why have you not done why have you been unclear about these why have you been unclear about these why have you been unclear about these things? Why has this happened? Why has things? Why has this happened? Why has things? Why has this happened? Why has that happened? And he that happened? And he that happened? And he >> refused to sit down with me on some of >> refused to sit down with me on some of >> refused to sit down with me on some of these things, right? This is a very these things, right? This is a very these things, right? This is a very influential pastor.

influential pastor. influential pastor. >> And so, so that would be my question is >> And so, so that would be my question is >> And so, so that would be my question is like to the pastors listening to this like to the pastors listening to this like to the pastors listening to this and to you specifically like haven't we and to you specifically like haven't we and to you specifically like haven't we had enough examples of like you don't had enough examples of like you don't had enough examples of like you don't have to water down or omit aspects. I have to water down or omit aspects. I have to water down or omit aspects. I think people want hard teaching. And think people want hard teaching. And think people want hard teaching. And two, um, two, um, two, um, >> with with the bells and whistles and all >> with with the bells and whistles and all >> with with the bells and whistles and all that sort of stuff. I'm not saying don't that sort of stuff. I'm not saying don't that sort of stuff. I'm not saying don't tell stories or don't use illustrations tell stories or don't use illustrations tell stories or don't use illustrations or don't but is is it as necessary or don't but is is it as necessary or don't but is is it as necessary to do some of these things? to do some of these things? to do some of these things? >> No, I don't think it's as necessary. And >> No, I don't think it's as necessary. And >> No, I don't think it's as necessary. And >> attractional church meant different >> attractional church meant different >> attractional church meant different things to different people. It's not things to different people. It's not things to different people. It's not like everybody just got the instruction like everybody just got the instruction like everybody just got the instruction sheet and here's how you do [laughter] sheet and here's how you do [laughter] sheet and here's how you do [laughter] attractional church, right? Step one, attractional church, right? Step one, attractional church, right? Step one, step two, step three. step two, step three. step two, step three. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> It was an interesting moment. Um, you >> It was an interesting moment. Um, you >> It was an interesting moment. Um, you know, I started leading full-time in know, I started leading full-time in know, I started leading full-time in ministry in 1995 when you were still a ministry in 1995 when you were still a ministry in 1995 when you were still a kid. It was a dark ages like we did not kid. It was a dark ages like we did not kid. It was a dark ages like we did not have connectivity. I didn't know have connectivity. I didn't know have connectivity. I didn't know >> uh what other churches were doing. You >> uh what other churches were doing. You >> uh what other churches were doing. You heard rumors, you know, you subscribe to heard rumors, you know, you subscribe to heard rumors, you know, you subscribe to a cassette ministry or CD ministry or a cassette ministry or CD ministry or a cassette ministry or CD ministry or you listen to somebody who was preaching you listen to somebody who was preaching you listen to somebody who was preaching on the radio and you got their 4-minute on the radio and you got their 4-minute on the radio and you got their 4-minute segment or whatever that was segment or whatever that was segment or whatever that was >> and that's how we got information or by >> and that's how we got information or by >> and that's how we got information or by books or conferences.

books or conferences. books or conferences. >> So we didn't see much. Then the internet >> So we didn't see much. Then the internet >> So we didn't see much. Then the internet comes along. It's only 20 years ago, comes along. It's only 20 years ago, comes along. It's only 20 years ago, 2005, that broadband eclipsed dialup. On 2005, that broadband eclipsed dialup. On 2005, that broadband eclipsed dialup. On dialup, like video is hard. You don't dialup, like video is hard. You don't dialup, like video is hard. You don't really know. 2007, social media really really know. 2007, social media really really know. 2007, social media really comes into its own. Facebook goes comes into its own. Facebook goes comes into its own. Facebook goes public. You know, Twitter's a year down public. You know, Twitter's a year down public. You know, Twitter's a year down the road. Instagram comes in 2012. So, the road. Instagram comes in 2012. So, the road. Instagram comes in 2012. So, the heyday of attractional church was the heyday of attractional church was the heyday of attractional church was probably 2005 to I'm going to date probably 2005 to I'm going to date probably 2005 to I'm going to date around 2017, 2018. I think a couple of around 2017, 2018. I think a couple of around 2017, 2018. I think a couple of things happened. Number one, we realized things happened. Number one, we realized things happened. Number one, we realized that Christianity was on the decline in that Christianity was on the decline in that Christianity was on the decline in America and in the whole western world. America and in the whole western world. America and in the whole western world. That a lot of people had church hurt. That a lot of people had church hurt. That a lot of people had church hurt. That a lot of people, it was grandma or That a lot of people, it was grandma or That a lot of people, it was grandma or their parents who went to church, but their parents who went to church, but their parents who went to church, but they were deconverting. they were deconverting. they were deconverting. >> And then we realized, oh, these other >> And then we realized, oh, these other >> And then we realized, oh, these other churches are doing this thing. Wait, churches are doing this thing. Wait, churches are doing this thing. Wait, I've got musicians who could do this. I've got musicians who could do this. I've got musicians who could do this. >> Oh, that's what a screen looks like. We >> Oh, that's what a screen looks like. We >> Oh, that's what a screen looks like. We can use technology. Like I still can use technology. Like I still can use technology. Like I still remember the first time we went from an remember the first time we went from an remember the first time we went from an overhead projector overhead projector overhead projector >> to a um like I think it was a PowerPoint >> to a um like I think it was a PowerPoint >> to a um like I think it was a PowerPoint or something like that back in maybe or something like that back in maybe or something like that back in maybe 2002 2002 2002 >> and I had church leaders come in and >> and I had church leaders come in and >> and I had church leaders come in and visit us. We're worshiping it at visit us. We're worshiping it at visit us. We're worshiping it at elementary school. They're like where elementary school. They're like where elementary school. They're like where did you get this projector?

did you get this projector? did you get this projector? >> It's like at the office store down the >> It's like at the office store down the >> It's like at the office store down the [laughter] road. Like it's not that [laughter] road. Like it's not that [laughter] road. Like it's not that hard. It's the one you would buy for hard. It's the one you would buy for hard. It's the one you would buy for your company. Right. So it was a it's your company. Right. So it was a it's your company. Right. So it was a it's easy to look back on the past and go easy to look back on the past and go easy to look back on the past and go like what were you guys thinking? I look like what were you guys thinking? I look like what were you guys thinking? I look back on some like we drove a motorcycle back on some like we drove a motorcycle back on some like we drove a motorcycle in one day and all that stuff and I was in one day and all that stuff and I was in one day and all that stuff and I was like what was I thinking? I don't know like what was I thinking? I don't know like what was I thinking? I don't know what I was thinking. [laughter] It was what I was thinking. [laughter] It was what I was thinking. [laughter] It was like would I do that over again? I would like would I do that over again? I would like would I do that over again? I would not do that over again. Right. But then not do that over again. Right. But then not do that over again. Right. But then you could do Coldplay or you two or you could do Coldplay or you two or you could do Coldplay or you two or something like that. I think it had a something like that. I think it had a something like that. I think it had a moment moment moment >> and you know some of the people who were >> and you know some of the people who were >> and you know some of the people who were converted in that era are genuine converted in that era are genuine converted in that era are genuine authentic followers of Jesus. authentic followers of Jesus. authentic followers of Jesus. >> For me >> For me >> For me >> and you know I stand to be corrected >> and you know I stand to be corrected >> and you know I stand to be corrected somebody who followed my teaching for somebody who followed my teaching for somebody who followed my teaching for years. I don't believe that that years. I don't believe that that years. I don't believe that that resulted in a diluted or hedged gospel. resulted in a diluted or hedged gospel. resulted in a diluted or hedged gospel. >> I think it's like, okay, we're going to >> I think it's like, okay, we're going to >> I think it's like, okay, we're going to make church more accessible to people make church more accessible to people make church more accessible to people who aren't into church. That was my who aren't into church. That was my who aren't into church. That was my heartbeat. And over half of our church, heartbeat. And over half of our church, heartbeat. And over half of our church, people who walked in the door people who walked in the door people who walked in the door >> and still to this day say, yeah, I don't >> and still to this day say, yeah, I don't >> and still to this day say, yeah, I don't I don't have a church background or I I don't have a church background or I I don't have a church background or I left years ago. So, they didn't just left years ago. So, they didn't just left years ago. So, they didn't just come in from next door and you're the come in from next door and you're the come in from next door and you're the cool one and they're all following you cool one and they're all following you cool one and they're all following you now. You know, transfer growth is now. You know, transfer growth is now. You know, transfer growth is inevitable, but like 90% of transfer inevitable, but like 90% of transfer inevitable, but like 90% of transfer growth in 90% of church growth in growth in 90% of church growth in growth in 90% of church growth in America is transfer growth, America is transfer growth, America is transfer growth, >> which is really interesting. And what's >> which is really interesting. And what's >> which is really interesting. And what's happening is market consolidation, happening is market consolidation, happening is market consolidation, right? The smaller churches aren't right? The smaller churches aren't right? The smaller churches aren't viable anymore. They close, they can't viable anymore. They close, they can't viable anymore. They close, they can't find a pastor. So, the smaller churches find a pastor. So, the smaller churches find a pastor. So, the smaller churches are getting smaller, the bigger churches are getting smaller, the bigger churches are getting smaller, the bigger churches are getting bigger. So, when you are getting bigger. So, when you are getting bigger. So, when you actually have conversion growth, actually have conversion growth, actually have conversion growth, >> it's rare. And for a season, >> it's rare. And for a season, >> it's rare. And for a season, >> I think a tractional church fueled that.

>> I think a tractional church fueled that. >> I think a tractional church fueled that. And now what you've got, because I think And now what you've got, because I think And now what you've got, because I think it's a super fair question, is we're in it's a super fair question, is we're in it's a super fair question, is we're in a different moment. The other thing that a different moment. The other thing that a different moment. The other thing that really changed is the foyer, the foyer really changed is the foyer, the foyer really changed is the foyer, the foyer moved. So 15 years ago, if you were moved. So 15 years ago, if you were moved. So 15 years ago, if you were coming to your church this weekend for coming to your church this weekend for coming to your church this weekend for the first time, it was new. A friend the first time, it was new. A friend the first time, it was new. A friend brought you, you didn't know what to brought you, you didn't know what to brought you, you didn't know what to expect. Now, because we've been talking expect. Now, because we've been talking expect. Now, because we've been talking about the internet, everybody has about the internet, everybody has about the internet, everybody has sourced your church online. sourced your church online. sourced your church online. >> They've checked out your Instagram. >> They've checked out your Instagram. >> They've checked out your Instagram. They've been to your web um page. They've been to your web um page. They've been to your web um page. They've been to your homepage. They've They've been to your homepage. They've They've been to your homepage. They've they've listened to 10 messages or at they've listened to 10 messages or at they've listened to 10 messages or at least sermon clips on Instagram or least sermon clips on Instagram or least sermon clips on Instagram or YouTube. They've followed you. They've YouTube. They've followed you. They've YouTube. They've followed you. They've investigated and they show up investigated and they show up investigated and they show up >> and they're I'm ready to go. >> and they're I'm ready to go. >> and they're I'm ready to go. >> So, when they walk in, like when I >> So, when they walk in, like when I >> So, when they walk in, like when I walked into your studio today, I wasn't walked into your studio today, I wasn't walked into your studio today, I wasn't like, like, like, >> "So, Ren, what is podcasting? What is >> "So, Ren, what is podcasting? What is >> "So, Ren, what is podcasting? What is the internet? What is YouTube?" Ex. I the internet? What is YouTube?" Ex. I the internet? What is YouTube?" Ex. I knew what you, you know, obviously I knew what you, you know, obviously I knew what you, you know, obviously I asked you to be a guest on my show, asked you to be a guest on my show, asked you to be a guest on my show, >> so I knew all that stuff. And I was >> so I knew all that stuff. And I was >> so I knew all that stuff. And I was like, we sat down within a few minutes like, we sat down within a few minutes like, we sat down within a few minutes and we started recording. We got to know and we started recording. We got to know and we started recording. We got to know you, met the crew, you know, and we you, met the crew, you know, and we you, met the crew, you know, and we started. I think that's what's happening started. I think that's what's happening started. I think that's what's happening in church today is because people have in church today is because people have in church today is because people have watched your videos, [clears throat] watched your videos, [clears throat] watched your videos, [clears throat] they've they've done apologetics online, they've they've done apologetics online, they've they've done apologetics online, they've chatgpted it, they've chatgpted it, they've chatgpted it, >> when they show up on a Sunday morning, >> when they show up on a Sunday morning, >> when they show up on a Sunday morning, >> they're not at, you know, if one is I >> they're not at, you know, if one is I >> they're not at, you know, if one is I know nothing about Christianity and 10 know nothing about Christianity and 10 know nothing about Christianity and 10 is I'm, you know, a deep follower of is I'm, you know, a deep follower of is I'm, you know, a deep follower of Jesus ready to, you know, I'm discipled.

Jesus ready to, you know, I'm discipled. Jesus ready to, you know, I'm discipled. >> You know, they used to show up at a two >> You know, they used to show up at a two >> You know, they used to show up at a two or three. Now everybody jumps up three or three. Now everybody jumps up three or three. Now everybody jumps up three or four and they're much more familiar. or four and they're much more familiar. or four and they're much more familiar. So, I I still don't want to lose people So, I I still don't want to lose people So, I I still don't want to lose people and assume that they have a degree in and assume that they have a degree in and assume that they have a degree in Old Testament. I may have to do a little Old Testament. I may have to do a little Old Testament. I may have to do a little on-ramp for them to understand the on-ramp for them to understand the on-ramp for them to understand the story, but they're like, "No, I'm story, but they're like, "No, I'm story, but they're like, "No, I'm serious about my faith." serious about my faith." serious about my faith." >> And for those who didn't check it out >> And for those who didn't check it out >> And for those who didn't check it out online, they came with a friend. Like, online, they came with a friend. Like, online, they came with a friend. Like, if you're bringing me on Sunday, you're if you're bringing me on Sunday, you're if you're bringing me on Sunday, you're like, "I'll catch up at lunch or like, "I'll catch up at lunch or like, "I'll catch up at lunch or whatever." So, I just think whatever." So, I just think whatever." So, I just think >> that that is what has changed. And >> that that is what has changed. And >> that that is what has changed. And that's why, you know, I'm not leading a that's why, you know, I'm not leading a that's why, you know, I'm not leading a church dayto day. But if I was, yeah, I church dayto day. But if I was, yeah, I church dayto day. But if I was, yeah, I wouldn't be doing the cover songs the wouldn't be doing the cover songs the wouldn't be doing the cover songs the way we used to do the cover songs. I way we used to do the cover songs. I way we used to do the cover songs. I wouldn't be, you know, jumping off wouldn't be, you know, jumping off wouldn't be, you know, jumping off buildings or whatever we were doing back buildings or whatever we were doing back buildings or whatever we were doing back in the day. And some of that was in the day. And some of that was in the day. And some of that was definitely a it was like, you know, definitely a it was like, you know, definitely a it was like, you know, >> you have this shiny new toy. You don't >> you have this shiny new toy. You don't >> you have this shiny new toy. You don't know what it is. It's the internet. Oh, know what it is. It's the internet. Oh, know what it is. It's the internet. Oh, that was cool. Could we pull that off? that was cool. Could we pull that off? that was cool. Could we pull that off? Yeah, we could pull that off. Yeah, we could pull that off. Yeah, we could pull that off. >> And some of that's like, oh, that was a >> And some of that's like, oh, that was a >> And some of that's like, oh, that was a moment. moment. moment. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> we can let that go. >> we can let that go. >> we can let that go. >> Okay, I got I got one more question. >> Okay, I got I got one more question. >> Okay, I got I got one more question. Does that make sense? No, that that's Does that make sense? No, that that's Does that make sense? No, that that's actually a really good you canize it actually a really good you canize it actually a really good you canize it with the internet, which actually really with the internet, which actually really with the internet, which actually really >> because that I just think when they show >> because that I just think when they show >> because that I just think when they show up now, they've done their homework.

up now, they've done their homework. up now, they've done their homework. like when you show up at the resort, you like when you show up at the resort, you like when you show up at the resort, you know it's got a hot tub or it doesn't. know it's got a hot tub or it doesn't. know it's got a hot tub or it doesn't. >> Yeah, that's so good. Okay, so one of >> Yeah, that's so good. Okay, so one of >> Yeah, that's so good. Okay, so one of the things that that's interesting to me the things that that's interesting to me the things that that's interesting to me is the is the is the >> So, one of the things I I've I've loved >> So, one of the things I I've I've loved >> So, one of the things I I've I've loved and also appreciated, but also in and also appreciated, but also in and also appreciated, but also in hindsight, I'm like, oof. Is hindsight, I'm like, oof. Is hindsight, I'm like, oof. Is the threepoint the threepoint the threepoint fill in the blank type of messages, fill in the blank type of messages, fill in the blank type of messages, which I like three-point preaching, which I like three-point preaching, which I like three-point preaching, right? I think it's good. But like I right? I think it's good. But like I right? I think it's good. But like I remember some of the seeker friendly remember some of the seeker friendly remember some of the seeker friendly extractional would they would be they extractional would they would be they extractional would they would be they would do these like would do these like would do these like they have this idea and then they're they have this idea and then they're they have this idea and then they're trying to find a verse to make the idea trying to find a verse to make the idea trying to find a verse to make the idea fit and it would be like the NLT but fit and it would be like the NLT but fit and it would be like the NLT but it'd be the B version of the verse that it'd be the B version of the verse that it'd be the B version of the verse that like that that verse isn't even saying like that that verse isn't even saying like that that verse isn't even saying that right like you're trying to fit that right like you're trying to fit that right like you're trying to fit this idea and and idea is not bad like this idea and and idea is not bad like this idea and and idea is not bad like but you could just say the idea without but you could just say the idea without but you could just say the idea without needing to reel in a verse to that right needing to reel in a verse to that right needing to reel in a verse to that right so I've always found that uh that so I've always found that uh that so I've always found that uh that hilarious. is like like that that type hilarious. is like like that that type hilarious. is like like that that type of preaching versus just like, hey, of preaching versus just like, hey, of preaching versus just like, hey, we're just going to take a chunk of text we're just going to take a chunk of text we're just going to take a chunk of text and then we'll we'll see if we can and then we'll we'll see if we can and then we'll we'll see if we can extract three points and then we'll kind extract three points and then we'll kind extract three points and then we'll kind of go from there and see and see where of go from there and see and see where of go from there and see and see where it goes. Uh not that I'm like an it goes. Uh not that I'm like an it goes. Uh not that I'm like an exclusive, you have to go verse by exclusive, you have to go verse by exclusive, you have to go verse by verse, hardcore in that sense, but I I I verse, hardcore in that sense, but I I I verse, hardcore in that sense, but I I I do find that interesting. There was a do find that interesting. There was a do find that interesting. There was a there was another question I had for there was another question I had for there was another question I had for you. Oh gosh, you. Oh gosh, you. Oh gosh, >> the three-point sermon like uh the fill >> the three-point sermon like uh the fill >> the three-point sermon like uh the fill in the blank.

in the blank. in the blank. >> The fill in the blank, man. I'm drawing >> The fill in the blank, man. I'm drawing >> The fill in the blank, man. I'm drawing a blank. Goodness gracious. Another a blank. Goodness gracious. Another a blank. Goodness gracious. Another question I had about attractional question I had about attractional question I had about attractional church. church. church. >> Um, >> Um, >> Um, >> I'm an open book. >> I'm an open book. >> I'm an open book. >> Gosh darn it, I can't believe I lost >> Gosh darn it, I can't believe I lost >> Gosh darn it, I can't believe I lost fright thought. fright thought. fright thought. >> Okay. No, you know, on the sermon >> Okay. No, you know, on the sermon >> Okay. No, you know, on the sermon outline, I mean, I get it. outline, I mean, I get it. outline, I mean, I get it. >> Oh. Oh. Oh, go >> Oh. Oh. Oh, go >> Oh. Oh. Oh, go >> buying sermons or copying sermons. >> Plagiarism is one of the oldest crimes >> Plagiarism is one of the oldest crimes in the book. It's awful, awful, awful, in the book. It's awful, awful, awful, in the book. It's awful, awful, awful, awful, awful. I mean, it's been around awful, awful. I mean, it's been around awful, awful. I mean, it's been around for a long, long time. Uh, I have for a long, long time. Uh, I have for a long, long time. Uh, I have preached sermons heavily influenced by preached sermons heavily influenced by preached sermons heavily influenced by Tim Keller or others. Y Tim Keller or others. Y Tim Keller or others. Y >> if I do that, I will stand up and go, >> if I do that, I will stand up and go, >> if I do that, I will stand up and go, hey, hey, hey, >> I'm preaching the sermon >> I'm preaching the sermon >> I'm preaching the sermon >> heavily influenced by >> heavily influenced by >> heavily influenced by >> I am reteaching a sermon by >> I am reteaching a sermon by >> I am reteaching a sermon by >> I [clears throat] don't want to claim >> I [clears throat] don't want to claim >> I [clears throat] don't want to claim credit where credit isn't due. If I do credit where credit isn't due. If I do credit where credit isn't due. If I do it, hopefully it's unintentional. Not it, hopefully it's unintentional. Not it, hopefully it's unintentional. Not intentional. intentional. intentional. >> AI is going to make that worse, dude. >> AI is going to make that worse, dude. >> AI is going to make that worse, dude. Like, you know, if Chat GPT writes draft Like, you know, if Chat GPT writes draft Like, you know, if Chat GPT writes draft one for me, how does that even live in one for me, how does that even live in one for me, how does that even live in me? I think the joy the the the joy of me? I think the joy the the the joy of me? I think the joy the the the joy of preaching is the burden of preaching, preaching is the burden of preaching, preaching is the burden of preaching, >> wrestling with the text, >> wrestling with the text, >> wrestling with the text, >> staring at a blinking cursor >> staring at a blinking cursor >> staring at a blinking cursor >> going, I don't even understand this >> going, I don't even understand this >> going, I don't even understand this passage. Like, I I got to go deep on passage. Like, I I got to go deep on passage. Like, I I got to go deep on this one or like I can't get anything this one or like I can't get anything this one or like I can't get anything from this text.

from this text. from this text. >> That's your job. >> That's your job. >> That's your job. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> That's your job. So, you know, Sermon >> That's your job. So, you know, Sermon >> That's your job. So, you know, Sermon Central's been around for a long time. Central's been around for a long time. Central's been around for a long time. There have been other ways to steal There have been other ways to steal There have been other ways to steal messages and plagiarism is a big messages and plagiarism is a big messages and plagiarism is a big problem. I love the comparison. I don't problem. I love the comparison. I don't problem. I love the comparison. I don't love it cuz I wish it didn't happen. But love it cuz I wish it didn't happen. But love it cuz I wish it didn't happen. But the comparison videos between the the comparison videos between the the comparison videos between the original message and the person who original message and the person who original message and the person who ripped it off and passed it off as their ripped it off and passed it off as their ripped it off and passed it off as their own. own. own. >> I huge issue. >> I huge issue. >> I huge issue. >> I I I I don't understand why someone >> I I I I don't understand why someone >> I I I I don't understand why someone would just not acknowledge it. would just not acknowledge it. would just not acknowledge it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Like, hey, I got like cuz I've I've used >> Like, hey, I got like cuz I've I've used >> Like, hey, I got like cuz I've I've used my pastor's illustration before for an my pastor's illustration before for an my pastor's illustration before for an opening. opening. opening. >> Uh he's taken little stuff here and >> Uh he's taken little stuff here and >> Uh he's taken little stuff here and there for me for my book or whatever, there for me for my book or whatever, there for me for my book or whatever, but we just acknowledge it, you know? but we just acknowledge it, you know? but we just acknowledge it, you know? >> Yeah. As Roolin says, >> Yeah. As Roolin says, >> Yeah. As Roolin says, So, we just acknowledge it. So, we just acknowledge it. So, we just acknowledge it. >> Just acknowledge it. That's that's what >> Just acknowledge it. That's that's what >> Just acknowledge it. That's that's what I do. And actually, the wisest people I do. And actually, the wisest people I do. And actually, the wisest people you read, you listen to Tim Keller, his you read, you listen to Tim Keller, his you read, you listen to Tim Keller, his joke was, joke was, joke was, >> you know, gosh, I miss him, but his joke >> you know, gosh, I miss him, but his joke >> you know, gosh, I miss him, but his joke was, "On a good day, I write my own was, "On a good day, I write my own was, "On a good day, I write my own sermons. On a bad day, I quote CS Lewis, sermons. On a bad day, I quote CS Lewis, sermons. On a bad day, I quote CS Lewis, >> but he would he would he would quote CS >> but he would he would he would quote CS >> but he would he would he would quote CS Lewis extensively and so on. My buddy Lewis extensively and so on. My buddy Lewis extensively and so on. My buddy Mark Clark, you know, has in at Bayside Mark Clark, you know, has in at Bayside Mark Clark, you know, has in at Bayside in Sacramento, in Sacramento, in Sacramento, >> he reads so widely and his sermons are, >> he reads so widely and his sermons are, >> he reads so widely and his sermons are, you know, quoting philosophers you never you know, quoting philosophers you never you know, quoting philosophers you never heard. John Mark, heard. John Mark, heard. John Mark, >> who I was just with yesterday, I was >> who I was just with yesterday, I was >> who I was just with yesterday, I was reading an early manuscript for his next reading an early manuscript for his next reading an early manuscript for his next book and I said to him, "Dude, every book and I said to him, "Dude, every book and I said to him, "Dude, every other paragraph is some patrician father other paragraph is some patrician father other paragraph is some patrician father or mother of the church, and it's just or mother of the church, and it's just or mother of the church, and it's just because he's read so wisely." That because he's read so wisely." That because he's read so wisely." That doesn't make you stupid. That makes you doesn't make you stupid. That makes you doesn't make you stupid. That makes you smart. If you know all of these sources smart. If you know all of these sources smart. If you know all of these sources and you're like, well, as Jerusalem said

and you're like, well, as Jerusalem said and you're like, well, as Jerusalem said and then as so and so says and Spurgeon and then as so and so says and Spurgeon and then as so and so says and Spurgeon said and this, you know, you're you're said and this, you know, you're you're said and this, you know, you're you're then in a point then in a point then in a point >> where I think people say, oh, you're >> where I think people say, oh, you're >> where I think people say, oh, you're you're wellstudied. you're wellstudied. you're wellstudied. >> And I really believe it goes to >> And I really believe it goes to >> And I really believe it goes to authority too. authority too. authority too. >> Like at the end of the day, >> Like at the end of the day, >> Like at the end of the day, >> you know, I want my messages to come >> you know, I want my messages to come >> you know, I want my messages to come from a struggle within me. M from a struggle within me. M from a struggle within me. M >> I want my episodes, these interviews >> I want my episodes, these interviews >> I want my episodes, these interviews >> to be authentic expressions of what I'm >> to be authentic expressions of what I'm >> to be authentic expressions of what I'm interested in, what people are interested in, what people are interested in, what people are interested in, and real conversations, interested in, and real conversations, interested in, and real conversations, not scripted. So, I think that should be not scripted. So, I think that should be not scripted. So, I think that should be >> the sermon. And if you're going to use >> the sermon. And if you're going to use >> the sermon. And if you're going to use it, we all borrow it. Nothing's new it, we all borrow it. Nothing's new it, we all borrow it. Nothing's new under the sun. You quote the scripture, under the sun. You quote the scripture, under the sun. You quote the scripture, >> quote sources, and if you're heavily >> quote sources, and if you're heavily >> quote sources, and if you're heavily borrowing or rewriting a message, just borrowing or rewriting a message, just borrowing or rewriting a message, just acknowledge it. You're not going to get acknowledge it. You're not going to get acknowledge it. You're not going to get fired. You'll get fired hopefully if you fired. You'll get fired hopefully if you fired. You'll get fired hopefully if you get caught plagiarizing and you lie get caught plagiarizing and you lie get caught plagiarizing and you lie about it. about it. about it. >> Yeah. I think I think I think if you're >> Yeah. I think I think I think if you're >> Yeah. I think I think I think if you're doing it and it's like your buddy and doing it and it's like your buddy and doing it and it's like your buddy and you guys are close, it's a little you guys are close, it's a little you guys are close, it's a little different. different. different. >> Oh, if you're on a teaching team and >> Oh, if you're on a teaching team and >> Oh, if you're on a teaching team and that's like he's teaching a version at that's like he's teaching a version at that's like he's teaching a version at his church and you're teaching it. Oh, his church and you're teaching it. Oh, his church and you're teaching it. Oh, that's different.

that's different. that's different. >> That's different. Yeah. So, anyway, I >> That's different. Yeah. So, anyway, I >> That's different. Yeah. So, anyway, I just I was just curious cuz I remember just I was just curious cuz I remember just I was just curious cuz I remember hearing like folks buying sermons and I hearing like folks buying sermons and I hearing like folks buying sermons and I was like, "Wow, was like, "Wow, was like, "Wow, >> it's still out there." >> it's still out there." >> it's still out there." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. [laughter] I shared that with John Christie. He I shared that with John Christie. He I shared that with John Christie. He asked me about that and he's like, asked me about that and he's like, asked me about that and he's like, "Wait, you mean you can buy a sermon? "Wait, you mean you can buy a sermon? "Wait, you mean you can buy a sermon? Isn't that called YouTube? Don't you Isn't that called YouTube? Don't you Isn't that called YouTube? Don't you [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] like you could you could do it for free? like you could you could do it for free? like you could you could do it for free? Right? So, I think I think those those Right? So, I think I think those those Right? So, I think I think those those are real issues. But with the are real issues. But with the are real issues. But with the attractional church, what did we learn? attractional church, what did we learn? attractional church, what did we learn? >> I think there are lessons that move into >> I think there are lessons that move into >> I think there are lessons that move into the future. Number one, we don't want the future. Number one, we don't want the future. Number one, we don't want repulsive church, repulsive church, repulsive church, >> right? Bad music, bad sound, bad video, >> right? Bad music, bad sound, bad video, >> right? Bad music, bad sound, bad video, bad preaching, bad like there's a lot bad preaching, bad like there's a lot bad preaching, bad like there's a lot that it taught us that it taught us that it taught us >> that we kind of take for granted now. >> that we kind of take for granted now. >> that we kind of take for granted now. You want your most emotionally You want your most emotionally You want your most emotionally intelligent people to be on your intelligent people to be on your intelligent people to be on your greeting team. M you actually want the greeting team. M you actually want the greeting team. M you actually want the band to be in tune. Yes, you can play to band to be in tune. Yes, you can play to band to be in tune. Yes, you can play to a click. And if you don't play to a a click. And if you don't play to a a click. And if you don't play to a click, the drummer still has to keep click, the drummer still has to keep click, the drummer still has to keep time. Like that's really important. time. Like that's really important. time. Like that's really important. Those things we didn't lose. We don't Those things we didn't lose. We don't Those things we didn't lose. We don't need the gimmicks anymore. We're in a need the gimmicks anymore. We're in a need the gimmicks anymore. We're in a different age. different age. different age. >> And now I think you're right. You said >> And now I think you're right. You said >> And now I think you're right. You said it. Other guests have said it. it. Other guests have said it. it. Other guests have said it. >> The next generation is desperate >> The next generation is desperate >> The next generation is desperate >> and they're looking for hope and they're >> and they're looking for hope and they're >> and they're looking for hope and they're looking for truth.

looking for truth. looking for truth. >> And if they show up at church, hopefully >> And if they show up at church, hopefully >> And if they show up at church, hopefully they find God. They don't just find us they find God. They don't just find us they find God. They don't just find us doing a really nice polished version of doing a really nice polished version of doing a really nice polished version of whatever. Yeah. Yeah. No, I love that. whatever. Yeah. Yeah. No, I love that. whatever. Yeah. Yeah. No, I love that. That's That's well said. Well said. That's That's well said. Well said. That's That's well said. Well said. >> Yeah. Anything else we haven't touched >> Yeah. Anything else we haven't touched >> Yeah. Anything else we haven't touched on that? on that? on that? >> Uh, go get my new book. >> Uh, go get my new book. >> Uh, go get my new book. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Godly ambition. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Godly ambition. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Godly ambition. >> Godly. >> Godly. >> Godly. >> Give us the give us the like why'd you >> Give us the give us the like why'd you >> Give us the give us the like why'd you write it? write it? write it? >> Oh, man. Why did I write it? I wrote it >> Oh, man. Why did I write it? I wrote it >> Oh, man. Why did I write it? I wrote it for a lot of reasons. I think the for a lot of reasons. I think the for a lot of reasons. I think the conversation around purpose, calling, conversation around purpose, calling, conversation around purpose, calling, identity, identity, identity, >> kind of what we talked about, right? >> kind of what we talked about, right? >> kind of what we talked about, right? Like all of those conversations are I Like all of those conversations are I Like all of those conversations are I think so timely. think so timely. think so timely. >> The macro the macro trend and this is >> The macro the macro trend and this is >> The macro the macro trend and this is this might be I'm not I'm not trying to this might be I'm not I'm not trying to this might be I'm not I'm not trying to sound alarmist but like the macro trend sound alarmist but like the macro trend sound alarmist but like the macro trend is is is twofold for me. One is is is twofold for me. One is is is twofold for me. One if you were average in the 90s if you were average in the 90s if you were average in the 90s >> you could have a pretty decent life. You >> you could have a pretty decent life. You >> you could have a pretty decent life. You know, you you could you could you could know, you you could you could you could know, you you could you could you could work a job. Um probably survive off of work a job. Um probably survive off of work a job. Um probably survive off of one income, buy a home, retire, right?

one income, buy a home, retire, right? one income, buy a home, retire, right? 90s, 80s. 90s, 80s. 90s, 80s. >> I bought my first home in the 90s. That >> I bought my first home in the 90s. That >> I bought my first home in the 90s. That resonates. resonates. resonates. >> Yeah. And uh now >> Yeah. And uh now >> Yeah. And uh now if you're average, like you're cooked. if you're average, like you're cooked. if you're average, like you're cooked. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Like you're cooked. Like it's not it's >> Like you're cooked. Like it's not it's >> Like you're cooked. Like it's not it's not going to happen. So it's like I open not going to happen. So it's like I open not going to happen. So it's like I open the the book with the tale of two the the book with the tale of two the the book with the tale of two cities, like the best of times and the cities, like the best of times and the cities, like the best of times and the worst of times. And that and that's worst of times. And that and that's worst of times. And that and that's that's where we are today. It's like that's where we are today. It's like that's where we are today. It's like it's one of the most amazing times to be it's one of the most amazing times to be it's one of the most amazing times to be alive. I wouldn't want to be alive at alive. I wouldn't want to be alive at alive. I wouldn't want to be alive at any other time. But at the same time, any other time. But at the same time, any other time. But at the same time, it's also very hard. It's and it's this it's also very hard. It's and it's this it's also very hard. It's and it's this duality that people are dealing with. duality that people are dealing with. duality that people are dealing with. And then you take the reality of the And then you take the reality of the And then you take the reality of the macroeconomic trends and AI is coming macroeconomic trends and AI is coming macroeconomic trends and AI is coming and automation and all the self-driving and automation and all the self-driving and automation and all the self-driving cars and what's going to happen to the cars and what's going to happen to the cars and what's going to happen to the guy that's driving a lift and Uber right guy that's driving a lift and Uber right guy that's driving a lift and Uber right now. What's going to happen? now. What's going to happen? now. What's going to happen? >> Because I saw the way working in Santa >> Because I saw the way working in Santa >> Because I saw the way working in Santa Monica yesterday. Monica yesterday. Monica yesterday. >> Yeah, it's a trip. Those things are kind >> Yeah, it's a trip. Those things are kind >> Yeah, it's a trip. Those things are kind of scary looking when you see them up of scary looking when you see them up of scary looking when you see them up close in person. Yeah. close in person. Yeah. close in person. Yeah. >> So, all these things are coming. >> So, all these things are coming. >> So, all these things are coming. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. And we also have a weird relationship And we also have a weird relationship And we also have a weird relationship with purpose, calling, career, money, with purpose, calling, career, money, with purpose, calling, career, money, >> and ambition in church. >> and ambition in church. >> and ambition in church. >> Those are those could be very bad words >> Those are those could be very bad words >> Those are those could be very bad words for some Christians. Even the talk of for some Christians. Even the talk of for some Christians. Even the talk of like, "Hey man, like are you like, "Hey man, like are you like, "Hey man, like are you >> do you have any sort of plan for your >> do you have any sort of plan for your >> do you have any sort of plan for your finances? Do you have any sort of plan finances? Do you have any sort of plan finances? Do you have any sort of plan and budget or anything?" People like, and budget or anything?" People like, and budget or anything?" People like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa. You can't serve two "Whoa, whoa, whoa. You can't serve two "Whoa, whoa, whoa. You can't serve two gods. Can't serve both God and money."

gods. Can't serve both God and money." gods. Can't serve both God and money." And it's like, wait a minute. No, no, And it's like, wait a minute. No, no, And it's like, wait a minute. No, no, no, no. You're really deconextualizing no, no. You're really deconextualizing no, no. You're really deconextualizing Jesus there. Hard to be generous when Jesus there. Hard to be generous when Jesus there. Hard to be generous when you have no money. you have no money. you have no money. >> Hello. Yeah. Yeah. And and you know the >> Hello. Yeah. Yeah. And and you know the >> Hello. Yeah. Yeah. And and you know the the people love the people love the people love um to quote the least of these um to quote the least of these um to quote the least of these >> and you know what you've done to the >> and you know what you've done to the >> and you know what you've done to the least of these you've done unto me. And least of these you've done unto me. And least of these you've done unto me. And I love that. What they miss is that's I love that. What they miss is that's I love that. What they miss is that's right after the parable of the talents. right after the parable of the talents. right after the parable of the talents. >> Yeah. So you're talking the context is >> Yeah. So you're talking the context is >> Yeah. So you're talking the context is Matthew 25 uh the imminency of the Matthew 25 uh the imminency of the Matthew 25 uh the imminency of the return of Jesus the wise and the foolish return of Jesus the wise and the foolish return of Jesus the wise and the foolish virgins into the parable of the talents virgins into the parable of the talents virgins into the parable of the talents making the most of your time talent and making the most of your time talent and making the most of your time talent and treasure into caring for the least of treasure into caring for the least of treasure into caring for the least of these and I think that's on that that's these and I think that's on that that's these and I think that's on that that's intentional like we live as if Jesus is intentional like we live as if Jesus is intentional like we live as if Jesus is going to return by making the most of going to return by making the most of going to return by making the most of our time talent and treasure so that we our time talent and treasure so that we our time talent and treasure so that we can care for the least of these and can care for the least of these and can care for the least of these and caring for the least of these by the way caring for the least of these by the way caring for the least of these by the way there's a hierarchy to that so that there's a hierarchy to that so that there's a hierarchy to that so that means that I first have to care for my means that I first have to care for my means that I first have to care for my own household and I got to make sure my own household and I got to make sure my own household and I got to make sure my household is in order then my extended household is in order then my extended household is in order then my extended family then my local church community family then my local church community family then my local church community and then the the nation in the world and and then the the nation in the world and and then the the nation in the world and all these sorts of things, right? And I all these sorts of things, right? And I all these sorts of things, right? And I think so much of what's happening is think so much of what's happening is think so much of what's happening is that people are perverting that and that people are perverting that and that people are perverting that and taking it backwards. Be care about taking it backwards. Be care about taking it backwards. Be care about what's happening over there while what's happening over there while what's happening over there while neglecting your day-to-day life.

neglecting your day-to-day life. neglecting your day-to-day life. >> And I think that's that that that's >> And I think that's that that that's >> And I think that's that that that's dangerous. And so anyway, I tried to to dangerous. And so anyway, I tried to to dangerous. And so anyway, I tried to to put something in people's hands that was put something in people's hands that was put something in people's hands that was rich in scripture and theology, but also rich in scripture and theology, but also rich in scripture and theology, but also just very very practical. And uh that's just very very practical. And uh that's just very very practical. And uh that's been the the biggest feedback. It's been the the biggest feedback. It's been the the biggest feedback. It's like, man, I didn't realize how much like, man, I didn't realize how much like, man, I didn't realize how much scripture would be in this book. Like scripture would be in this book. Like scripture would be in this book. Like there's a lot of scripture. Yeah. So there's a lot of scripture. Yeah. So there's a lot of scripture. Yeah. So that's been like a very very cool um that's been like a very very cool um that's been like a very very cool um >> a cool >> a cool >> a cool response. I also think, and this is response. I also think, and this is response. I also think, and this is going to be controversial, it's going to going to be controversial, it's going to going to be controversial, it's going to be very controversial. be very controversial. be very controversial. I think there's people that are I think there's people that are I think there's people that are misappropriating misappropriating misappropriating John Mark Comr's John Mark Comr's John Mark Comr's content in seasons of life where it content in seasons of life where it content in seasons of life where it doesn't apply as much. Let me explain. doesn't apply as much. Let me explain. doesn't apply as much. Let me explain. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> If you're in your early 20s, I don't >> If you're in your early 20s, I don't >> If you're in your early 20s, I don't want to hear anything from you about want to hear anything from you about want to hear anything from you about Sabbath. Sabbath. Sabbath. M M M >> I don't want to hear anything from you >> I don't want to hear anything from you >> I don't want to hear anything from you about turning off your phone for 3 days about turning off your phone for 3 days about turning off your phone for 3 days so you can go earth and get in your so you can go earth and get in your so you can go earth and get in your Bible. I want it I want you to work and Bible. I want it I want you to work and Bible. I want it I want you to work and put your face down and and live out put your face down and and live out put your face down and and live out Proverbs 6 that that that there's a time Proverbs 6 that that that there's a time Proverbs 6 that that that there's a time where you you you you build yourself for where you you you you build yourself for where you you you you build yourself for the next season. And so I think John the next season. And so I think John the next season. And so I think John Mark does a great job of talking to guys Mark does a great job of talking to guys Mark does a great job of talking to guys like me and you that are like, "Yeah, we like me and you that are like, "Yeah, we like me and you that are like, "Yeah, we probably need to get a better rhythm on probably need to get a better rhythm on probably need to get a better rhythm on rest and a better rhythm on Sabbath."

rest and a better rhythm on Sabbath." rest and a better rhythm on Sabbath." But if you're in your early 20s, I don't But if you're in your early 20s, I don't But if you're in your early 20s, I don't want to hear jack squat from you about want to hear jack squat from you about want to hear jack squat from you about Sabbath. I don't want you to, oh, I'm Sabbath. I don't want you to, oh, I'm Sabbath. I don't want you to, oh, I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to join going to I'm going to I'm going to join going to I'm going to I'm going to join a startup and turn my phone off over the a startup and turn my phone off over the a startup and turn my phone off over the weekend. I'm going to go join a church weekend. I'm going to go join a church weekend. I'm going to go join a church plant and and have boundaries with when plant and and have boundaries with when plant and and have boundaries with when I'm uh accessible because I'm I'm I'm uh accessible because I'm I'm I'm uh accessible because I'm I'm blocking my phone away. Like, no, no, blocking my phone away. Like, no, no, blocking my phone away. Like, no, no, you're in a different season of life and you're in a different season of life and you're in a different season of life and you need to put your head down and you need to put your head down and you need to put your head down and grind. So, having spent yesterday grind. So, having spent yesterday grind. So, having spent yesterday afternoon with John Mark at his house, afternoon with John Mark at his house, afternoon with John Mark at his house, >> uh, two hours up the road, I I I I don't >> uh, two hours up the road, I I I I don't >> uh, two hours up the road, I I I I don't like to speak for other people, but I like to speak for other people, but I like to speak for other people, but I think I can say honestly, and and John think I can say honestly, and and John think I can say honestly, and and John Mark can correct me if I'm wrong, Mark can correct me if I'm wrong, Mark can correct me if I'm wrong, >> ruthless elimination of hurry, and he's >> ruthless elimination of hurry, and he's >> ruthless elimination of hurry, and he's he's talked about this publicly, so it's he's talked about this publicly, so it's he's talked about this publicly, so it's not secret. And even his his current not secret. And even his his current not secret. And even his his current work work work >> is a reaction >> is a reaction >> is a reaction >> to the driven I [clears throat] don't >> to the driven I [clears throat] don't >> to the driven I [clears throat] don't have a a stop, you know, I don't have have a a stop, you know, I don't have have a a stop, you know, I don't have brakes, I just have a gas pedal. brakes, I just have a gas pedal. brakes, I just have a gas pedal. >> Yes. 19, 20, 20 year old, 24 year old >> Yes. 19, 20, 20 year old, 24 year old >> Yes. 19, 20, 20 year old, 24 year old version of him version of him version of him >> that got him >> that got him >> that got him >> kind of burned out and into a place >> kind of burned out and into a place >> kind of burned out and into a place where he wasn't healthy. Yeah. So, I where he wasn't healthy. Yeah. So, I where he wasn't healthy. Yeah. So, I think all of that comes out. Would you think all of that comes out. Would you think all of that comes out. Would you advise a Sabbath, though, for a advise a Sabbath, though, for a advise a Sabbath, though, for a 21-year-old who's just starting 21-year-old who's just starting 21-year-old who's just starting something?

something? something? >> Uh, yeah, I think you should take a day >> Uh, yeah, I think you should take a day >> Uh, yeah, I think you should take a day off. Okay. off. Okay. off. Okay. >> For sure. Yeah. I would agree. >> For sure. Yeah. I would agree. >> For sure. Yeah. I would agree. >> I would I would advise a Sabbath as a >> I would I would advise a Sabbath as a >> I would I would advise a Sabbath as a principle in the same way I would advise principle in the same way I would advise principle in the same way I would advise people to tithe. So, I don't think it's people to tithe. So, I don't think it's people to tithe. So, I don't think it's a law and I don't think like your your a law and I don't think like your your a law and I don't think like your your crops are going to get overran by, you crops are going to get overran by, you crops are going to get overran by, you know, like like the Malachi. But I think know, like like the Malachi. But I think know, like like the Malachi. But I think it's a great discipline and a principle it's a great discipline and a principle it's a great discipline and a principle to have. I don't think it's a law to to have. I don't think it's a law to to have. I don't think it's a law to have. have. have. >> I have violated Sabbath so many times in >> I have violated Sabbath so many times in >> I have violated Sabbath so many times in my life. Right. my life. Right. my life. Right. >> I'm surprised I haven't been smitten, >> I'm surprised I haven't been smitten, >> I'm surprised I haven't been smitten, [laughter] you know? [laughter] you know? [laughter] you know? >> So, I think I think like Sabbath is a >> So, I think I think like Sabbath is a >> So, I think I think like Sabbath is a great principle. Um, and yes, I think great principle. Um, and yes, I think great principle. Um, and yes, I think people should take at least a day off people should take at least a day off people should take at least a day off and just chill and relax. and just chill and relax. and just chill and relax. >> But you're you're you're saying and I >> But you're you're you're saying and I >> But you're you're you're saying and I see what you mean. There's sort of the see what you mean. There's sort of the see what you mean. There's sort of the hustle culture or the I'm not doing hustle culture or the I'm not doing hustle culture or the I'm not doing anything and I'm scrolling for 12 hours anything and I'm scrolling for 12 hours anything and I'm scrolling for 12 hours a day in my parents basement and you're a day in my parents basement and you're a day in my parents basement and you're trying to get at trying to get at trying to get at >> the second. >> the second. >> the second. >> You're trying to say actually you need >> You're trying to say actually you need >> You're trying to say actually you need some hustle. some hustle. some hustle. >> And that's interesting because I've >> And that's interesting because I've >> And that's interesting because I've heard like everyone from Dave Ramsey who heard like everyone from Dave Ramsey who heard like everyone from Dave Ramsey who you've referenced to others say thing you've referenced to others say thing you've referenced to others say thing about Gen Z is they're all about Gen Z is they're all about Gen Z is they're all entrepreneurial and allin. They're all entrepreneurial and allin. They're all entrepreneurial and allin. They're all gas or they're all breaks. gas or they're all breaks. gas or they're all breaks. >> And do you see the same thing? >> And do you see the same thing? >> And do you see the same thing? >> Yes. Yes. with the caveat that the gas >> Yes. Yes. with the caveat that the gas >> Yes. Yes. with the caveat that the gas is often misdirected. Like they're is often misdirected. Like they're is often misdirected. Like they're they're picking up.

they're picking up. they're picking up. >> How is it misdirected? >> How is it misdirected? >> How is it misdirected? >> Uh they have a rap career going. This is >> Uh they have a rap career going. This is >> Uh they have a rap career going. This is a real person I'm thinking about in my a real person I'm thinking about in my a real person I'm thinking about in my head. They have a rap career going. head. They have a rap career going. head. They have a rap career going. They're they're a part of an MLM They're they're a part of an MLM They're they're a part of an MLM >> and they have a videography business. >> and they have a videography business. >> and they have a videography business. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> And it's like dog, pick one. >> And it's like dog, pick one. >> And it's like dog, pick one. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Like pick one. Put your head down and do >> Like pick one. Put your head down and do >> Like pick one. Put your head down and do the thing. the thing. the thing. >> That is true. >> That is true. >> That is true. >> You know, and so I think it's >> You know, and so I think it's >> You know, and so I think it's misdirected. And so it's like if you if misdirected. And so it's like if you if misdirected. And so it's like if you if you try to catch you try to catch you try to catch >> two rabbits, you'll catch neither, you >> two rabbits, you'll catch neither, you >> two rabbits, you'll catch neither, you know? just pick a thing, put your head know? just pick a thing, put your head know? just pick a thing, put your head down and go. Yeah. Do it. Yeah. So, so down and go. Yeah. Do it. Yeah. So, so down and go. Yeah. Do it. Yeah. So, so yes. So, yes, I do think that I think yes. So, yes, I do think that I think yes. So, yes, I do think that I think >> the >> the >> the >> the burnout happens when you're all over >> the burnout happens when you're all over >> the burnout happens when you're all over the place. I don't think the burnout the place. I don't think the burnout the place. I don't think the burnout happens when you actually are locked in happens when you actually are locked in happens when you actually are locked in on what you're supposed to do for the on what you're supposed to do for the on what you're supposed to do for the season that you're in. I think the season that you're in. I think the season that you're in. I think the burnout happens when you're chasing too burnout happens when you're chasing too burnout happens when you're chasing too many things and you're chasing the wrong many things and you're chasing the wrong many things and you're chasing the wrong things. things. things. >> I think I think that's the that's the >> I think I think that's the that's the >> I think I think that's the that's the issue. And so, um I think that we should issue. And so, um I think that we should issue. And so, um I think that we should rest for sure. I mean, and I rest. I rest for sure. I mean, and I rest. I rest for sure. I mean, and I rest. I sleep 8 nine hours a day. I sleep very sleep 8 nine hours a day. I sleep very sleep 8 nine hours a day. I sleep very well. Uh I I'm up very early and I don't well. Uh I I'm up very early and I don't well. Uh I I'm up very early and I don't I don't I don't you know take care of my I don't I don't you know take care of my I don't I don't you know take care of my body. All those sorts of things. I think body. All those sorts of things. I think body. All those sorts of things. I think I think you need all that. And and the I think you need all that. And and the I think you need all that. And and the interesting part is interesting part is interesting part is >> there are there are hustle bro folks >> there are there are hustle bro folks >> there are there are hustle bro folks that are cooked from hustling and godly that are cooked from hustling and godly that are cooked from hustling and godly ambition ends up being a anchor for them ambition ends up being a anchor for them ambition ends up being a anchor for them of like you're right. I do we're going of like you're right. I do we're going of like you're right. I do we're going to dial back. I actually got to tell to dial back. I actually got to tell to dial back. I actually got to tell it's got to be godly ambition.

it's got to be godly ambition. it's got to be godly ambition. >> Yes. It got to be godly ambition. >> Yes. It got to be godly ambition. >> Yes. It got to be godly ambition. >> Some of you need ambition. Some of you >> Some of you need ambition. Some of you >> Some of you need ambition. Some of you need godly. Yes. Got it. need godly. Yes. Got it. need godly. Yes. Got it. >> Yes. So so that's the the the anchor >> Yes. So so that's the the the anchor >> Yes. So so that's the the the anchor behind it. So, those are the three behind it. So, those are the three behind it. So, those are the three things of why I I wrote the book and things of why I I wrote the book and things of why I I wrote the book and it's been good. Um, there's a chapter in it's been good. Um, there's a chapter in it's been good. Um, there's a chapter in there on church that I think a lot of there on church that I think a lot of there on church that I think a lot of your your audience will love. My chapter your your audience will love. My chapter your your audience will love. My chapter on church and community and the local on church and community and the local on church and community and the local church. There's, uh, a lot of just very church. There's, uh, a lot of just very church. There's, uh, a lot of just very practical stuff in terms of how to practical stuff in terms of how to practical stuff in terms of how to anchor men who want to be in church, anchor men who want to be in church, anchor men who want to be in church, want to lead, uh, but need to sit and want to lead, uh, but need to sit and want to lead, uh, but need to sit and they need to, they need to get poured they need to, they need to get poured they need to, they need to get poured into before they have authority. So, I into before they have authority. So, I into before they have authority. So, I talk about that a lot. And so, there talk about that a lot. And so, there talk about that a lot. And so, there there's a there's a be a student before there's a there's a be a student before there's a there's a be a student before you can be a teacher. you can be a teacher. you can be a teacher. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. >> Or a student while you're a teacher. >> Or a student while you're a teacher. >> Or a student while you're a teacher. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um, last question. >> Um, last question. >> Um, last question. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> There are thousands of churches, >> There are thousands of churches, >> There are thousands of churches, probably tens of thousands of churches probably tens of thousands of churches probably tens of thousands of churches >> that have someone like you. >> that have someone like you. >> that have someone like you. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Sitting maybe in the back row. I sense >> Sitting maybe in the back row. I sense >> Sitting maybe in the back row. I sense you're not in the back row at your local you're not in the back row at your local you're not in the back row at your local church, but imagine, you know, you move church, but imagine, you know, you move church, but imagine, you know, you move cities, you do it, you're kind of cities, you do it, you're kind of cities, you do it, you're kind of anonymous, you're just sitting in the anonymous, you're just sitting in the anonymous, you're just sitting in the back row. Mhm.

back row. Mhm. back row. Mhm. >> I am convinced a lot of us, and this is >> I am convinced a lot of us, and this is >> I am convinced a lot of us, and this is a critique of my leadership in the a critique of my leadership in the a critique of my leadership in the church over two decades as well, kind of church over two decades as well, kind of church over two decades as well, kind of miss the potential that was in the miss the potential that was in the miss the potential that was in the congregation because we end up saying, congregation because we end up saying, congregation because we end up saying, "Oh, you have a, you know, YouTube "Oh, you have a, you know, YouTube "Oh, you have a, you know, YouTube channel pushing a million followers. Can channel pushing a million followers. Can channel pushing a million followers. Can you run the soundboard?" And you would you run the soundboard?" And you would you run the soundboard?" And you would run the soundboard because you do an run the soundboard because you do an run the soundboard because you do an excellent job, I'm sure. excellent job, I'm sure. excellent job, I'm sure. >> But like, you can bring more to us. What >> But like, you can bring more to us. What >> But like, you can bring more to us. What is our best leverage of the skill set we is our best leverage of the skill set we is our best leverage of the skill set we have that we might be missing? What do have that we might be missing? What do have that we might be missing? What do you wish pastors would ask people like you wish pastors would ask people like you wish pastors would ask people like you to do more often? >> One, you could ask the the version of >> One, you could ask the the version of me, me, me, hey, can you do a podcast with me? hey, can you do a podcast with me? hey, can you do a podcast with me? >> I want to get a podcast and I just want >> I want to get a podcast and I just want >> I want to get a podcast and I just want to serve our church by doing a if I had to serve our church by doing a if I had to serve our church by doing a if I had more time type of podcast. more time type of podcast. more time type of podcast. >> And I if there's a version of me without >> And I if there's a version of me without >> And I if there's a version of me without wife and kids, I would jump all over wife and kids, I would jump all over wife and kids, I would jump all over that. that. that. >> Yeah. I would be all over that. Like >> Yeah. I would be all over that. Like >> Yeah. I would be all over that. Like Yeah. If you were in the early startup Yeah. If you were in the early startup Yeah. If you were in the early startup season, you'd be like 100%. season, you'd be like 100%. season, you'd be like 100%. >> Yeah. And that serves that person well. >> Yeah. And that serves that person well. >> Yeah. And that serves that person well. If you got a guy like a like like say If you got a guy like a like like say If you got a guy like a like like say you got like a Bryce Crawford or someone you got like a Bryce Crawford or someone you got like a Bryce Crawford or someone like that, right? That's a younger guy, like that, right? That's a younger guy, like that, right? That's a younger guy, no kids, not married, um he would no kids, not married, um he would no kids, not married, um he would benefit greatly from having a consistent benefit greatly from having a consistent benefit greatly from having a consistent rhythm with a with an actual pastor that rhythm with a with an actual pastor that rhythm with a with an actual pastor that he can see serve that pastor, but also he can see serve that pastor, but also he can see serve that pastor, but also have the proximity effect of just being have the proximity effect of just being have the proximity effect of just being around a godly man. So, I think it it's around a godly man. So, I think it it's around a godly man. So, I think it it's it's um it's a win-win in that sense.

it's um it's a win-win in that sense. it's um it's a win-win in that sense. So, one, I I think there's that. Uh, I So, one, I I think there's that. Uh, I So, one, I I think there's that. Uh, I think the ability to think the ability to think the ability to equip, empower, and release a leader equip, empower, and release a leader equip, empower, and release a leader without feeling threatened by their without feeling threatened by their without feeling threatened by their influence, influence, influence, >> I think is a delicate balance. >> I think is a delicate balance. >> I think is a delicate balance. >> And here's why. Um, like I don't want >> And here's why. Um, like I don't want >> And here's why. Um, like I don't want any more power or influence than I any more power or influence than I any more power or influence than I already have. Like I I have plenty. I already have. Like I I have plenty. I already have. Like I I have plenty. I have too much. Yeah. have too much. Yeah. have too much. Yeah. >> So like I'm not >> So like I'm not >> So like I'm not >> clobbering for power influence at my >> clobbering for power influence at my >> clobbering for power influence at my church, church, church, >> right? Uh my pastor does an amazing job >> right? Uh my pastor does an amazing job >> right? Uh my pastor does an amazing job of letting me teach on Sundays when he of letting me teach on Sundays when he of letting me teach on Sundays when he needs me to teach. Uh having me teach at needs me to teach. Uh having me teach at needs me to teach. Uh having me teach at the young adults pretty regularly. the young adults pretty regularly. the young adults pretty regularly. >> And in that we've had a lot of people at >> And in that we've had a lot of people at >> And in that we've had a lot of people at the leveraging of my public platform the leveraging of my public platform the leveraging of my public platform come and join our church because I'm a come and join our church because I'm a come and join our church because I'm a person in the church. person in the church. person in the church. >> So it's kind of a winwin then. Yeah. >> So it's kind of a winwin then. Yeah. >> So it's kind of a winwin then. Yeah. >> It's like a cooperative. >> It's like a cooperative. >> It's like a cooperative. >> Yeah. Yeah. because I'm I'm here to >> Yeah. Yeah. because I'm I'm here to >> Yeah. Yeah. because I'm I'm here to serve and and I've uh I I like like I serve and and I've uh I I like like I serve and and I've uh I I like like I you know 3 years ago, four years ago, I you know 3 years ago, four years ago, I you know 3 years ago, four years ago, I I I served with the babies, I I served with the babies, I I served with the babies, >> you know. I had no problem. People walk >> you know. I had no problem. People walk >> you know. I had no problem. People walk in like aren't you Ruth's like I'm just in like aren't you Ruth's like I'm just in like aren't you Ruth's like I'm just like just rocking someone's baby, you like just rocking someone's baby, you like just rocking someone's baby, you know? Yeah. And so I have no problem know? Yeah. And so I have no problem know? Yeah. And so I have no problem with serving. So you you also got to with serving. So you you also got to with serving. So you you also got to know where where that person is in what know where where that person is in what know where where that person is in what season and their maturity cuz sometimes season and their maturity cuz sometimes season and their maturity cuz sometimes they actually do might need to just go they actually do might need to just go they actually do might need to just go serve and put their head down.

serve and put their head down. serve and put their head down. >> They need to do the remedial. >> They need to do the remedial. >> They need to do the remedial. >> They might be exhausted. they they've >> They might be exhausted. they they've >> They might be exhausted. they they've got the ambition, not the godly right got the ambition, not the godly right got the ambition, not the godly right now. now. now. >> Yeah. They they may need to slow down >> Yeah. They they may need to slow down >> Yeah. They they may need to slow down and just serve in the most remedial way. and just serve in the most remedial way. and just serve in the most remedial way. Um or they might be in a position like, Um or they might be in a position like, Um or they might be in a position like, hey, I could pour into this dude and hey, I could pour into this dude and hey, I could pour into this dude and potentially have them teach in the young potentially have them teach in the young potentially have them teach in the young adults or have them teach on a Sunday adults or have them teach on a Sunday adults or have them teach on a Sunday morning and and and release them in morning and and and release them in morning and and and release them in their gifting and and that uh builds a their gifting and and that uh builds a their gifting and and that uh builds a lot of unity in in that sense because if lot of unity in in that sense because if lot of unity in in that sense because if if you have a competent solid leader, if you have a competent solid leader, if you have a competent solid leader, you shouldn't be threatened by someone you shouldn't be threatened by someone you shouldn't be threatened by someone else's influence. Absolutely. else's influence. Absolutely. else's influence. Absolutely. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> The pastor shouldn't be threatened by >> The pastor shouldn't be threatened by >> The pastor shouldn't be threatened by you and you shouldn't be you and you shouldn't be you and you shouldn't be >> threatened or insecure around the pastor >> threatened or insecure around the pastor >> threatened or insecure around the pastor about what you do. about what you do. about what you do. >> Yeah. And then and then when you have a >> Yeah. And then and then when you have a >> Yeah. And then and then when you have a guy like me in your church, guy like me in your church, guy like me in your church, >> then the the dream goes like my and this >> then the the dream goes like my and this >> then the the dream goes like my and this is I'm not saying this as like a flex, is I'm not saying this as like a flex, is I'm not saying this as like a flex, but like my dream is actually like but like my dream is actually like but like my dream is actually like >> Lord, >> Lord, >> Lord, >> I want to be the biggest single donor at >> I want to be the biggest single donor at >> I want to be the biggest single donor at my church. my church. my church. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Because you're blessing what I'm doing >> Because you're blessing what I'm doing >> Because you're blessing what I'm doing with YouTube and like what would it take with YouTube and like what would it take with YouTube and like what would it take for me to be the biggest single donor? for me to be the biggest single donor? for me to be the biggest single donor? And again, I don't need power. I don't And again, I don't need power. I don't And again, I don't need power. I don't need access. I don't need a plaque on need access. I don't need a plaque on need access. I don't need a plaque on the wall.

the wall. the wall. >> I don't need a plaque on the wall. >> I don't need a plaque on the wall. >> I don't need a plaque on the wall. >> But that's the game that I'm starting to >> But that's the game that I'm starting to >> But that's the game that I'm starting to play. And so you would be shocked at play. And so you would be shocked at play. And so you would be shocked at like like like >> you pouring into that person and then >> you pouring into that person and then >> you pouring into that person and then and then the potential for that person and then the potential for that person and then the potential for that person to pour back into the church whether I'm to pour back into the church whether I'm to pour back into the church whether I'm directly promoting Rhythm Church in directly promoting Rhythm Church in directly promoting Rhythm Church in Oceanside. Come hang out and people, you Oceanside. Come hang out and people, you Oceanside. Come hang out and people, you know, I mean I this Sunday is like I'm know, I mean I this Sunday is like I'm know, I mean I this Sunday is like I'm leaving and it's like three or four leaving and it's like three or four leaving and it's like three or four people that I'm like, "Hey man, like I people that I'm like, "Hey man, like I people that I'm like, "Hey man, like I heard about the church cuz you and then heard about the church cuz you and then heard about the church cuz you and then I walk out another person. Hey, I heard I walk out another person. Hey, I heard I walk out another person. Hey, I heard about the church cuz you and I'm drove about the church cuz you and I'm drove about the church cuz you and I'm drove down from man. Hey, I heard like and down from man. Hey, I heard like and down from man. Hey, I heard like and it's like yeah that there's a there's a it's like yeah that there's a there's a it's like yeah that there's a there's a there's a positive there's a positive there's a positive There's a synergy to it. Um, and then There's a synergy to it. Um, and then There's a synergy to it. Um, and then there's accessibility. Like every there's accessibility. Like every there's accessibility. Like every Monday, my wife is doing the kids choir. Monday, my wife is doing the kids choir. Monday, my wife is doing the kids choir. >> My pastor's in there. He's wrapping up >> My pastor's in there. He's wrapping up >> My pastor's in there. He's wrapping up his study. And so I'm usually there for his study. And so I'm usually there for his study. And so I'm usually there for an hour or two just kind of hanging in an hour or two just kind of hanging in an hour or two just kind of hanging in his office. I got my newborn with me and his office. I got my newborn with me and his office. I got my newborn with me and we're just we're just we're just >> catching up and hanging out. And it's >> catching up and hanging out. And it's >> catching up and hanging out. And it's it's it's informal. Like it's not like it's it's informal. Like it's not like it's it's informal. Like it's not like he I don't need like counseling. Like he I don't need like counseling. Like he I don't need like counseling. Like I'm fairly competent. I have a real I'm fairly competent. I have a real I'm fairly competent. I have a real therapist, right, that that that guides therapist, right, that that that guides therapist, right, that that that guides that. And so I think yeah, there's a that. And so I think yeah, there's a that. And so I think yeah, there's a there's a there's a beautiful synergy. there's a there's a beautiful synergy. there's a there's a beautiful synergy. So, I would say So, I would say So, I would say you want you should want a guy like me you want you should want a guy like me you want you should want a guy like me in your church considering that I'm in your church considering that I'm in your church considering that I'm stable and I'm healthy stable and I'm healthy stable and I'm healthy >> and that you're helping me get stable >> and that you're helping me get stable >> and that you're helping me get stable and healthy if I'm not.

and healthy if I'm not. and healthy if I'm not. >> I think that's a really good point >> I think that's a really good point >> I think that's a really good point assuming you're stable and healthy and assuming you're stable and healthy and assuming you're stable and healthy and otherwise it could be like a time in otherwise it could be like a time in otherwise it could be like a time in rehab or we've had different rehab or we've had different rehab or we've had different >> influential people through our church >> influential people through our church >> influential people through our church and there have been seasons where it's and there have been seasons where it's and there have been seasons where it's like no you shouldn't be on stage and like no you shouldn't be on stage and like no you shouldn't be on stage and times where they should be on stage. times where they should be on stage. times where they should be on stage. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. >> But if I was a pastor and there's >> But if I was a pastor and there's >> But if I was a pastor and there's someone, let's say you come to I'm someone, let's say you come to I'm someone, let's say you come to I'm leading a church, you show up cuz you leading a church, you show up cuz you leading a church, you show up cuz you moved or whatever and now you're at my moved or whatever and now you're at my moved or whatever and now you're at my church. If I ask you, hey, I want to church. If I ask you, hey, I want to church. If I ask you, hey, I want to rethink our social media strategy, our rethink our social media strategy, our rethink our social media strategy, our YouTube strategy. YouTube strategy. YouTube strategy. >> Would you spend some time with me and >> Would you spend some time with me and >> Would you spend some time with me and the team to help the team to help the team to help >> us figure that out? >> us figure that out? >> us figure that out? >> How does that sit with you? >> How does that sit with you? >> How does that sit with you? >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Oh, I I am waiting to be asked. You know >> Oh, I I am waiting to be asked. You know >> Oh, I I am waiting to be asked. You know what I mean? I get the chance to give at what I mean? I get the chance to give at what I mean? I get the chance to give at some level, but like I would be like, some level, but like I would be like, some level, but like I would be like, "Oh, thank goodness somebody asked." And "Oh, thank goodness somebody asked." And "Oh, thank goodness somebody asked." And I've talked [clears throat] to other I've talked [clears throat] to other I've talked [clears throat] to other business leaders who don't have a church business leaders who don't have a church business leaders who don't have a church staff position staff position staff position >> who are like, you know, I get paid >> who are like, you know, I get paid >> who are like, you know, I get paid thousands or in some cases hundreds of thousands or in some cases hundreds of thousands or in some cases hundreds of thousands of dollars to advise CEOs. thousands of dollars to advise CEOs. thousands of dollars to advise CEOs. Nobody at my church ever asks me Nobody at my church ever asks me Nobody at my church ever asks me >> what what I you know, what I think about >> what what I you know, what I think about >> what what I you know, what I think about an issue. They just tell me to, you an issue. They just tell me to, you an issue. They just tell me to, you know, park cars, which I'm happy to do.

know, park cars, which I'm happy to do. know, park cars, which I'm happy to do. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'll take one I'll take it. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'll take one I'll take it. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'll take one I'll take it. I'll take it further. If you have a I'll take it further. If you have a I'll take it further. If you have a fitness influencer in your church, maybe fitness influencer in your church, maybe fitness influencer in your church, maybe they're not a a Christian they're not a a Christian they're not a a Christian >> talking head online, but they're they >> talking head online, but they're they >> talking head online, but they're they they have a fitness business, like you they have a fitness business, like you they have a fitness business, like you should ask that person, hey, what do I should ask that person, hey, what do I should ask that person, hey, what do I how can I get my own fitness button up how can I get my own fitness button up how can I get my own fitness button up and what do I need to do? and what do I need to do? and what do I need to do? >> Or tell me what you've learned about >> Or tell me what you've learned about >> Or tell me what you've learned about leading a business. leading a business. leading a business. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Is that is that So, that kind of thing >> Is that is that So, that kind of thing >> Is that is that So, that kind of thing is fair game. is fair game. is fair game. >> Absolutely. All I mean, all the time. I >> Absolutely. All I mean, all the time. I >> Absolutely. All I mean, all the time. I mean, I'm working we're working on we mean, I'm working we're working on we mean, I'm working we're working on we have some amazing musicians at our have some amazing musicians at our have some amazing musicians at our church and I'm working on just using my church and I'm working on just using my church and I'm working on just using my own connections to say, "Hey, we I know own connections to say, "Hey, we I know own connections to say, "Hey, we I know this guy. They do a worship collective. this guy. They do a worship collective. this guy. They do a worship collective. We're all going to get the team We're all going to get the team We're all going to get the team together. We're going to go to lunch and together. We're going to go to lunch and together. We're going to go to lunch and we're just going to talk strategy and we're just going to talk strategy and we're just going to talk strategy and execution and output so the church can execution and output so the church can execution and output so the church can release more music and what does that release more music and what does that release more music and what does that look like and how do you record it and look like and how do you record it and look like and how do you record it and how do you mix it and how do you get it how do you mix it and how do you get it how do you mix it and how do you get it out there? Yeah. All the time I'm always out there? Yeah. All the time I'm always out there? Yeah. All the time I'm always trying to figure out ways to connect trying to figure out ways to connect trying to figure out ways to connect when someone's in town to do my podcast. when someone's in town to do my podcast. when someone's in town to do my podcast. They're usually I'm usually like hey I'm They're usually I'm usually like hey I'm They're usually I'm usually like hey I'm going to pick you up from the airport. going to pick you up from the airport. going to pick you up from the airport. We're going to go hang out with my We're going to go hang out with my We're going to go hang out with my pastor, you know. So by proxy whether pastor, you know. So by proxy whether pastor, you know. So by proxy whether it's Carl Lynch, whether it's Ed Newton, it's Carl Lynch, whether it's Ed Newton, it's Carl Lynch, whether it's Ed Newton, whether like these folks all come and whether like these folks all come and whether like these folks all come and I'm showing off my church. That's the I'm showing off my church. That's the I'm showing off my church. That's the first place I want to take people. was first place I want to take people. was first place I want to take people. was like, "You got to meet my pastor. You like, "You got to meet my pastor. You like, "You got to meet my pastor. You got to meet my church." And then now my got to meet my church." And then now my got to meet my church." And then now my pastor is like really close to pastor Ed pastor is like really close to pastor Ed pastor is like really close to pastor Ed Newton. They're like they're they're Newton. They're like they're they're Newton. They're like they're they're tighter buddies. Yeah. They're tighter tighter buddies. Yeah. They're tighter tighter buddies. Yeah. They're tighter than me and uh pastor Ed are, you know, than me and uh pastor Ed are, you know, than me and uh pastor Ed are, you know, and so it's like I love connecting those and so it's like I love connecting those and so it's like I love connecting those sorts of things. And like my pastor is sorts of things. And like my pastor is sorts of things. And like my pastor is not like an influencer, but like those not like an influencer, but like those not like an influencer, but like those are really valuable relationships for are really valuable relationships for are really valuable relationships for all of us to have. So yeah, all of us to have. So yeah, all of us to have. So yeah, >> this is what I I want you guys to know >> this is what I I want you guys to know >> this is what I I want you guys to know who are watching. This is in your who are watching. This is in your who are watching. This is in your church. Maybe not every church, but a church. Maybe not every church, but a church. Maybe not every church, but a lot of your churches have the equivalent lot of your churches have the equivalent lot of your churches have the equivalent of a Roolin there, whether it's in the of a Roolin there, whether it's in the of a Roolin there, whether it's in the Christian space or not, but this is this Christian space or not, but this is this Christian space or not, but this is this is the power. So, this has helped so

is the power. So, this has helped so is the power. So, this has helped so much. much. much. >> Rousin, I hope so. I hope I don't get >> Rousin, I hope so. I hope I don't get >> Rousin, I hope so. I hope I don't get you too much uh flack or controversy you too much uh flack or controversy you too much uh flack or controversy with this episode. with this episode. with this episode. >> Well, you can jump in the comments. >> Well, you can jump in the comments. >> Well, you can jump in the comments. Okay, you said you enjoy [laughter] Okay, you said you enjoy [laughter] Okay, you said you enjoy [laughter] that, so you can jump in the comments. that, so you can jump in the comments. that, so you can jump in the comments. Uh tell us about your tour if people Uh tell us about your tour if people Uh tell us about your tour if people want to see you. You're going to be in a want to see you. You're going to be in a want to see you. You're going to be in a number of different cities with some number of different cities with some number of different cities with some awesome people. Tell us about that. awesome people. Tell us about that. awesome people. Tell us about that. >> Yeah. Yeah, we got the the the Bless God >> Yeah. Yeah, we got the the the Bless God >> Yeah. Yeah, we got the the the Bless God Summit coming up. I got to I got to show Summit coming up. I got to I got to show Summit coming up. I got to I got to show you guys that. That's going to be you guys that. That's going to be you guys that. That's going to be awesome. Uh we have Wes Huff. This is awesome. Uh we have Wes Huff. This is awesome. Uh we have Wes Huff. This is March 5th, 6th, and 7th. And this this March 5th, 6th, and 7th. And this this March 5th, 6th, and 7th. And this this would be a great thing that like send would be a great thing that like send would be a great thing that like send your leaders to, send your young adults your leaders to, send your young adults your leaders to, send your young adults to. Uh the lineup on this is phenomenal. to. Uh the lineup on this is phenomenal. to. Uh the lineup on this is phenomenal. We're we're dealing with worldview from We're we're dealing with worldview from We're we're dealing with worldview from I mean a guy like Wes Huff. We'll have I mean a guy like Wes Huff. We'll have I mean a guy like Wes Huff. We'll have Michael Nolles there from the Daily Michael Nolles there from the Daily Michael Nolles there from the Daily Wire. Then we're talking about um Gavin Wire. Then we're talking about um Gavin Wire. Then we're talking about um Gavin Ortland's going to be there talking Ortland's going to be there talking Ortland's going to be there talking about why Protestantism. That's really about why Protestantism. That's really about why Protestantism. That's really scorching hot right now. conversation of scorching hot right now. conversation of scorching hot right now. conversation of Eastern Orthodoxy and high church versus Eastern Orthodoxy and high church versus Eastern Orthodoxy and high church versus low church. So Gavin Ortland is going to low church. So Gavin Ortland is going to low church. So Gavin Ortland is going to be doing a talk. We have KB. We got Dr. be doing a talk. We have KB. We got Dr. be doing a talk. We have KB. We got Dr. Shawn McDow. Um God Logic is going to be Shawn McDow. Um God Logic is going to be Shawn McDow. Um God Logic is going to be debating Jacob Hansen on the Trinity. debating Jacob Hansen on the Trinity. debating Jacob Hansen on the Trinity. Jacob Hansen's a Mormon, so he's we got Jacob Hansen's a Mormon, so he's we got Jacob Hansen's a Mormon, so he's we got a debate. Mike Winger is going to be a debate. Mike Winger is going to be a debate. Mike Winger is going to be there. Triso Fitness talking about there. Triso Fitness talking about there. Triso Fitness talking about virtues of fitness and and health. Uh virtues of fitness and and health. Uh virtues of fitness and and health. Uh Josh Nate Doe, what do you meme? Um this Josh Nate Doe, what do you meme? Um this Josh Nate Doe, what do you meme? Um this is uh Brooke, this is actually uh John is uh Brooke, this is actually uh John is uh Brooke, this is actually uh John Mark Commer's brother-in-law. He has a Mark Commer's brother-in-law. He has a Mark Commer's brother-in-law. He has a podcast and is a successful amazing podcast and is a successful amazing podcast and is a successful amazing author in his own right. Justin Early author in his own right. Justin Early author in his own right. Justin Early who wrote a bunch of bestselling books.

who wrote a bunch of bestselling books. who wrote a bunch of bestselling books. Habits of the household is probably his Habits of the household is probably his Habits of the household is probably his most popular. So he's going to be there. most popular. So he's going to be there. most popular. So he's going to be there. So anyway, that's happening uh March So anyway, that's happening uh March So anyway, that's happening uh March 5th, 6th and 7th. Dustin, he won 5th, 6th and 7th. Dustin, he won 5th, 6th and 7th. Dustin, he won America's Got Talent. And so yeah, come America's Got Talent. And so yeah, come America's Got Talent. And so yeah, come come to that. Send your groups to that. come to that. Send your groups to that. come to that. Send your groups to that. And then I have my own tour. I'm going And then I have my own tour. I'm going And then I have my own tour. I'm going to be in Houston March 21st at the House to be in Houston March 21st at the House to be in Houston March 21st at the House of Blues, Dallas, Texas, Echol Lounge, of Blues, Dallas, Texas, Echol Lounge, of Blues, Dallas, Texas, Echol Lounge, Chicago, Park West. uh be in the Chicago, Park West. uh be in the Chicago, Park West. uh be in the Pittsburgh area, Arlington, Virginia, Pittsburgh area, Arlington, Virginia, Pittsburgh area, Arlington, Virginia, New York at uh Sony Music Hall, Los New York at uh Sony Music Hall, Los New York at uh Sony Music Hall, Los Angeles, Clear Water, Florida, Atlanta. Angeles, Clear Water, Florida, Atlanta. Angeles, Clear Water, Florida, Atlanta. So, tell you what, So, tell you what, So, tell you what, >> if you guys reach out, let me know. You >> if you guys reach out, let me know. You >> if you guys reach out, let me know. You heard about the tour, the summit from heard about the tour, the summit from heard about the tour, the summit from this conversation, let me know. I'll this conversation, let me know. I'll this conversation, let me know. I'll carve out some time to personally hang carve out some time to personally hang carve out some time to personally hang with you. Uh because a lot of these a with you. Uh because a lot of these a with you. Uh because a lot of these a lot of you guys are pastors and leaders, lot of you guys are pastors and leaders, lot of you guys are pastors and leaders, and I'd love to get to know some of you and I'd love to get to know some of you and I'd love to get to know some of you guys. Um and just just connect Instagram guys. Um and just just connect Instagram guys. Um and just just connect Instagram or reach out to you and and uh I'd love or reach out to you and and uh I'd love or reach out to you and and uh I'd love to get some of these folks connected. to get some of these folks connected. to get some of these folks connected. And And And >> you know what I love about this? Even as >> you know what I love about this? Even as >> you know what I love about this? Even as we close, you're breaking categories. we close, you're breaking categories. we close, you're breaking categories. And I think that's what needs to happen And I think that's what needs to happen And I think that's what needs to happen in the church is we need to bust some in the church is we need to bust some in the church is we need to bust some categories. categories. categories. >> What do you mean? What do you mean by >> What do you mean? What do you mean by >> What do you mean? What do you mean by that with that last part? that with that last part? that with that last part? >> Every other guest, like we're sitting in >> Every other guest, like we're sitting in >> Every other guest, like we're sitting in your studio, which is awesome, would be, your studio, which is awesome, would be, your studio, which is awesome, would be, yeah, check out my book, you know, go to yeah, check out my book, you know, go to yeah, check out my book, you know, go to godly ambitionbook.com or whatever the godly ambitionbook.com or whatever the godly ambitionbook.com or whatever the website is, and that's kind of it, or website is, and that's kind of it, or website is, and that's kind of it, or follow me on Instagram, and you're like, follow me on Instagram, and you're like, follow me on Instagram, and you're like, no, I got that queued up right now. Here no, I got that queued up right now. Here no, I got that queued up right now. Here we go. [laughter] we go. [laughter] we go. [laughter] and you're doing a really fascinating and you're doing a really fascinating and you're doing a really fascinating mashup of guests and, you know, this mashup of guests and, you know, this mashup of guests and, you know, this this tour that you're doing.

this tour that you're doing. this tour that you're doing. >> So, I think we need more creative >> So, I think we need more creative >> So, I think we need more creative thinking and I think the more of us who thinking and I think the more of us who thinking and I think the more of us who go direct online, go direct online, go direct online, >> the better we're going to be. >> the better we're going to be. >> the better we're going to be. >> Amen. Yeah. And you're leading the way. >> Amen. Yeah. And you're leading the way. >> Amen. Yeah. And you're leading the way. You come from the the pastoral office You come from the the pastoral office You come from the the pastoral office and now you're you're you're creating and now you're you're you're creating and now you're you're you're creating amazing resources for pastors. amazing resources for pastors. amazing resources for pastors. >> Well, and it's one of those things where >> Well, and it's one of those things where >> Well, and it's one of those things where this job didn't exist 10 years ago. this job didn't exist 10 years ago. this job didn't exist 10 years ago. Yeah. And I can't believe I get to do Yeah. And I can't believe I get to do Yeah. And I can't believe I get to do this every day this every day this every day >> and this has been a thrill to be with >> and this has been a thrill to be with >> and this has been a thrill to be with you, you, you, >> Relin. Thank you so much. >> Relin. Thank you so much. >> Relin. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All righty, guys. Peace. >> All righty, guys. Peace. >> All righty, guys. Peace. >> Well, that was a great podcast. Couple >> Well, that was a great podcast. Couple >> Well, that was a great podcast. Couple hours with Rousen. Thank you to him and hours with Rousen. Thank you to him and hours with Rousen. Thank you to him and his team for hosting us and setting that his team for hosting us and setting that his team for hosting us and setting that up. Next episode, uh, we actually have up. Next episode, uh, we actually have up. Next episode, uh, we actually have John Mark Comr. And I inverted the John Mark Comr. And I inverted the John Mark Comr. And I inverted the interview order, so we're not going to interview order, so we're not going to interview order, so we're not going to be able to talk about what we talked be able to talk about what we talked be able to talk about what we talked about on the show, but I think I can about on the show, but I think I can about on the show, but I think I can tell you John Mark Comr I know uh, did tell you John Mark Comr I know uh, did tell you John Mark Comr I know uh, did write The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry write The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry write The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry in a lot of his current works to sort of in a lot of his current works to sort of in a lot of his current works to sort of correct those early driven years. And I correct those early driven years. And I correct those early driven years. And I can totally relate to that as a leader can totally relate to that as a leader can totally relate to that as a leader in my 20s and 30s. I only had one pedal.

in my 20s and 30s. I only had one pedal. in my 20s and 30s. I only had one pedal. I hope you're enjoying this church trend I hope you're enjoying this church trend I hope you're enjoying this church trend series. Um, John Mark and I talk a series. Um, John Mark and I talk a series. Um, John Mark and I talk a little bit about it. So, I don't know if little bit about it. So, I don't know if little bit about it. So, I don't know if we're going to put that under the church we're going to put that under the church we're going to put that under the church trends banner or not, but uh, yeah, he's trends banner or not, but uh, yeah, he's trends banner or not, but uh, yeah, he's got a really interesting trend that he got a really interesting trend that he got a really interesting trend that he focuses on as well about Protestantism focuses on as well about Protestantism focuses on as well about Protestantism versus Catholicism, which we're going to versus Catholicism, which we're going to versus Catholicism, which we're going to dive into. Hope you've enjoyed this. You dive into. Hope you've enjoyed this. You dive into. Hope you've enjoyed this. You can get the show notes for this and can get the show notes for this and can get the show notes for this and everything we talked about inside the everything we talked about inside the everything we talked about inside the Art of Leadership Academy. Like I talked Art of Leadership Academy. Like I talked Art of Leadership Academy. Like I talked about R with Rousland, it is kind of a about R with Rousland, it is kind of a about R with Rousland, it is kind of a trollfree environment. We have a really trollfree environment. We have a really trollfree environment. We have a really good time there. where we got 15, 17, good time there. where we got 15, 17, good time there. where we got 15, 17, 18,000 leaders probably by the time this 18,000 leaders probably by the time this 18,000 leaders probably by the time this airs inside the academy. And if you want airs inside the academy. And if you want airs inside the academy. And if you want just quality conversation and you want just quality conversation and you want just quality conversation and you want to find other like-minded leaders, to find other like-minded leaders, to find other like-minded leaders, that's a place to go. Go to the art of that's a place to go. Go to the art of that's a place to go. Go to the art of leadershipacademy.com. You'll find the leadershipacademy.com. You'll find the leadershipacademy.com. You'll find the show notes. You'll find this video. You show notes. You'll find this video. You show notes. You'll find this video. You can have a great discussion around it. can have a great discussion around it. can have a great discussion around it. And in the meantime, John Mark Comr, And in the meantime, John Mark Comr, And in the meantime, John Mark Comr, that's pretty good incentive to that's pretty good incentive to that's pretty good incentive to subscribe or to follow wherever you're subscribe or to follow wherever you're subscribe or to follow wherever you're watching, wherever you're listening. And watching, wherever you're listening. And watching, wherever you're listening. And in the meantime, I hope our conversation in the meantime, I hope our conversation in the meantime, I hope our conversation today helped you identify and break a today helped you identify and break a today helped you identify and break a growth barrier you're facing. Hopefully, growth barrier you're facing. Hopefully, growth barrier you're facing. Hopefully, it did. Like maybe how you do your it did. Like maybe how you do your it did. Like maybe how you do your social media, what to do with nextgen social media, what to do with nextgen social media, what to do with nextgen influencers, all that. and a