The SECRET to Keeping Your Church GROWTH On Track with Ashley Woolridge

because it scares me to death um to lose because it scares me to death um to lose it. it. it. It it it um It it it um It it it um I I probably get chills and and am so I I probably get chills and and am so I I probably get chills and and am so fearful that as we as we um as we as we fearful that as we as we um as we as we fearful that as we as we um as we as we grow, you know, as our as our influence grow, you know, as our as our influence grow, you know, as our as our influence grows that somehow we lose the kind of grows that somehow we lose the kind of grows that somehow we lose the kind of posture that we need for God to continue posture that we need for God to continue posture that we need for God to continue to bless our church. Um, it really to bless our church. Um, it really to bless our church. Um, it really really work. It it it it keeps me up. really work. It it it it keeps me up. really work. It it it it keeps me up. Um, I know it can I know it can happen Um, I know it can I know it can happen Um, I know it can I know it can happen to me. I mean, let's ultimately to me. I mean, let's ultimately to me. I mean, let's ultimately personal. I know that can happen to me. personal. I know that can happen to me. personal. I know that can happen to me. Welcome to the Carrie New Hoff Welcome to the Carrie New Hoff Welcome to the Carrie New Hoff leadership podcast on YouTube. Do you leadership podcast on YouTube. Do you leadership podcast on YouTube. Do you ever wonder why is the pastor the ever wonder why is the pastor the ever wonder why is the pastor the product at so many churches? What product at so many churches? What product at so many churches? What happens when the pastor fails? What happens when the pastor fails? What happens when the pastor fails? What happens when the pastor isn't in a good happens when the pastor isn't in a good happens when the pastor isn't in a good season? All of that. Well, Ashley season? All of that. Well, Ashley season? All of that. Well, Ashley Woolridge and I going to talk about Woolridge and I going to talk about Woolridge and I going to talk about that. We're also going to talk about that. We're also going to talk about that. We're also going to talk about building one of the fastest growing and building one of the fastest growing and building one of the fastest growing and largest churches in America through Team largest churches in America through Team largest churches in America through Team Empowerment. That's Christ Church of the Empowerment. That's Christ Church of the Empowerment. That's Christ Church of the Valley. It is the second largest church Valley. It is the second largest church Valley. It is the second largest church in the United States. Hey, if you're new in the United States. Hey, if you're new in the United States. Hey, if you're new here, like, subscribe, leave a message, here, like, subscribe, leave a message, here, like, subscribe, leave a message, and maybe leave a comment. Let us know and maybe leave a comment. Let us know and maybe leave a comment. Let us know what you think. We will jump into my what you think. We will jump into my what you think. We will jump into my conversation with Ashley Wridge in just conversation with Ashley Wridge in just conversation with Ashley Wridge in just a moment. But first, a word from our a moment. But first, a word from our a moment. But first, a word from our very carefully chosen partners. Today's very carefully chosen partners. Today's very carefully chosen partners. Today's episode is brought to you by the Art of episode is brought to you by the Art of episode is brought to you by the Art of Leadership Academy. So, I recently heard Leadership Academy. So, I recently heard Leadership Academy. So, I recently heard a pretty compelling definition of a pretty compelling definition of a pretty compelling definition of community from Simon Synynic. He simply community from Simon Synynic. He simply community from Simon Synynic. He simply said, "A community is a group of people said, "A community is a group of people said, "A community is a group of people who agree to grow together." Do you know who agree to grow together." Do you know who agree to grow together." Do you know that's exactly what this podcast is that's exactly what this podcast is that's exactly what this podcast is becoming? So, for over a decade, the becoming? So, for over a decade, the becoming? So, for over a decade, the show is something you listen to on your

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on my radar being a pastor. Just never. on my radar being a pastor. Just never. My grandfather was a pastor, but I was My grandfather was a pastor, but I was My grandfather was a pastor, but I was really really strong in my faith. Um, really really strong in my faith. Um, really really strong in my faith. Um, and so I I went to a Bible college. Um, and so I I went to a Bible college. Um, and so I I went to a Bible college. Um, really desired to do that, but got a really desired to do that, but got a really desired to do that, but got a business degree with a minor in biblical business degree with a minor in biblical business degree with a minor in biblical studies. Okay. Okay. And so graduated studies. Okay. Okay. And so graduated studies. Okay. Okay. And so graduated with no plans of ever going in the with no plans of ever going in the with no plans of ever going in the ministry, but just living out my faith ministry, but just living out my faith ministry, but just living out my faith no matter where I was at. Um, and I got no matter where I was at. Um, and I got no matter where I was at. Um, and I got passionate in in a Bible college with passionate in in a Bible college with passionate in in a Bible college with actually understanding why some actually understanding why some actually understanding why some companies and organizations are crazy companies and organizations are crazy companies and organizations are crazy successful, some aren't, you know, and successful, some aren't, you know, and successful, some aren't, you know, and that became like this idea of like why that became like this idea of like why that became like this idea of like why are some businesses so great? And it was are some businesses so great? And it was are some businesses so great? And it was kind of more focused on the business kind of more focused on the business kind of more focused on the business world at the time. So I wanted to go world at the time. So I wanted to go world at the time. So I wanted to go work for a great company and so you work for a great company and so you work for a great company and so you know, you're floating resumes every know, you're floating resumes every know, you're floating resumes every everywhere when you graduate. We just everywhere when you graduate. We just everywhere when you graduate. We just happened to graduate at one of the best happened to graduate at one of the best happened to graduate at one of the best times to graduate in the past I think times to graduate in the past I think times to graduate in the past I think hundred years at the height of the hundred years at the height of the hundred years at the height of the dotcom bubble. And so so that was what dotcom bubble. And so so that was what dotcom bubble. And so so that was what year? That was um at the end of 99 year? That was um at the end of 99 year? That was um at the end of 99 literally right when everything was literally right when everything was literally right when everything was going to bust. And so I don't know if going to bust. And so I don't know if going to bust. And so I don't know if people remember this if you were alive people remember this if you were alive people remember this if you were alive you know some people I remember but you know some people I remember but you know some people I remember but company's greatest challenges at the company's greatest challenges at the company's greatest challenges at the time is they couldn't hire enough time is they couldn't hire enough time is they couldn't hire enough employees. I mean it was a massive employees. I mean it was a massive employees. I mean it was a massive issue. So Intel at the time you know we issue. So Intel at the time you know we issue. So Intel at the time you know we got got a resume in the door there. They got got a resume in the door there. They got got a resume in the door there. They did not hire unless you went to a top did not hire unless you went to a top did not hire unless you went to a top tier business school. But so Bible tier business school. But so Bible tier business school. But so Bible colleges weren't on top. The little colleges weren't on top. The little colleges weren't on top. The little podunk Bible college I went to in podunk Bible college I went to in podunk Bible college I went to in Southern California, not on their radar.

Southern California, not on their radar. Southern California, not on their radar. They're looking for MIT. Exactly. And so They're looking for MIT. Exactly. And so They're looking for MIT. Exactly. And so I still remember uh seeing the email I still remember uh seeing the email I still remember uh seeing the email afterwards from HR how I got hired. And afterwards from HR how I got hired. And afterwards from HR how I got hired. And the email basically said, um, never the email basically said, um, never the email basically said, um, never heard of this school in my life, but he heard of this school in my life, but he heard of this school in my life, but he has a couple um internships that look has a couple um internships that look has a couple um internships that look decent. Let's take a flyer. And so they decent. Let's take a flyer. And so they decent. Let's take a flyer. And so they took a flyer on bringing me in to this took a flyer on bringing me in to this took a flyer on bringing me in to this interview where they flew in. You know, interview where they flew in. You know, interview where they flew in. You know, there's probably 40 people that got there's probably 40 people that got there's probably 40 people that got flown in at the same time for this flown in at the same time for this flown in at the same time for this interview. And uh somehow I got hired interview. And uh somehow I got hired interview. And uh somehow I got hired and that's how I got hired at Intel. And and that's how I got hired at Intel. And and that's how I got hired at Intel. And um you had a had a few experiences um you had a had a few experiences um you had a had a few experiences before that. But basically spent about before that. But basically spent about before that. But basically spent about 10 years in the business world and 10 years in the business world and 10 years in the business world and before I really felt this felt this before I really felt this felt this before I really felt this felt this calling distinctly by God to go spend calling distinctly by God to go spend calling distinctly by God to go spend the rest of my life serving the local the rest of my life serving the local the rest of my life serving the local church. But that's that's part of my church. But that's that's part of my church. But that's that's part of my background. Never thought I'd be a background. Never thought I'd be a background. Never thought I'd be a pastor. Why Intel? pastor. Why Intel? pastor. Why Intel? Well, I I I love the technology world. Well, I I I love the technology world. Well, I I I love the technology world. One, at the time, they were just one of One, at the time, they were just one of One, at the time, they were just one of the top companies in the world in terms the top companies in the world in terms the top companies in the world in terms of taking ground. This was back in 99. of taking ground. This was back in 99. of taking ground. This was back in 99. Everybody had Intel when they were their Everybody had Intel when they were their Everybody had Intel when they were their heyday. I mean, they basically almost heyday. I mean, they basically almost heyday. I mean, they basically almost had, you know, they they almost had a had, you know, they they almost had a had, you know, they they almost had a monopoly on the market. So, they're monopoly on the market. So, they're monopoly on the market. So, they're they're just, you know, really doing they're just, you know, really doing they're just, you know, really doing well. And so, I wanted to work for a well. And so, I wanted to work for a well. And so, I wanted to work for a great company cuz I wanted to I wanted great company cuz I wanted to I wanted great company cuz I wanted to I wanted to learn why is this company taking to learn why is this company taking to learn why is this company taking ground the way they are. And you know, ground the way they are. And you know, ground the way they are. And you know, to this day, some of the best leaders to this day, some of the best leaders to this day, some of the best leaders I've ever worked with, um, ever been I've ever worked with, um, ever been I've ever worked with, um, ever been around in my life, um, I got exposed to around in my life, um, I got exposed to around in my life, um, I got exposed to at that company. Was Andy Grove still at that company. Was Andy Grove still at that company. Was Andy Grove still there when you joined? Andy had had there when you joined? Andy had had there when you joined? Andy had had stepped down. Okay. Right. And, stepped down. Okay. Right. And, stepped down. Okay. Right. And, uh, you know, a a series of CEOs that

uh, you know, a a series of CEOs that uh, you know, a a series of CEOs that come in. So, Craig Barrett was there and come in. So, Craig Barrett was there and come in. So, Craig Barrett was there and Pat Gellzinger was there as you know, Pat Gellzinger was there as you know, Pat Gellzinger was there as you know, chief technology officer, which you chief technology officer, which you chief technology officer, which you know, some of your listeners may may not know, some of your listeners may may not know, some of your listeners may may not know of. He was CEO of Intel. just know of. He was CEO of Intel. just know of. He was CEO of Intel. just stepped down months ago and is now at stepped down months ago and is now at stepped down months ago and is now at Glue heading up AI. That's right. And Glue heading up AI. That's right. And Glue heading up AI. That's right. And you know, uh he impacted my life deeply you know, uh he impacted my life deeply you know, uh he impacted my life deeply um while I was there in terms of what it um while I was there in terms of what it um while I was there in terms of what it looks like to live out your faith there. looks like to live out your faith there. looks like to live out your faith there. He's one of the best I've ever seen in He's one of the best I've ever seen in He's one of the best I've ever seen in my life at at living out your faith in my life at at living out your faith in my life at at living out your faith in in the business world, but deeply in the business world, but deeply in the business world, but deeply impacted by by so many leaders there impacted by by so many leaders there impacted by by so many leaders there that shaped um even who I am today. that shaped um even who I am today. that shaped um even who I am today. Yeah. If you trace that back, you've Yeah. If you trace that back, you've Yeah. If you trace that back, you've said it a couple times already that you said it a couple times already that you said it a couple times already that you were really interested in seeing why were really interested in seeing why were really interested in seeing why successful companies were successful. successful companies were successful. successful companies were successful. Yeah. Were there any clues in your Yeah. Were there any clues in your Yeah. Were there any clues in your childhood that that would be interesting childhood that that would be interesting childhood that that would be interesting to you? Like did you have a paper route? to you? Like did you have a paper route? to you? Like did you have a paper route? Uh, you know, were you an entrepreneur? Uh, you know, were you an entrepreneur? Uh, you know, were you an entrepreneur? Were you selling Coke at markup? Like Were you selling Coke at markup? Like Were you selling Coke at markup? Like Coca-Cola, not Coke. Let me clarify Coca-Cola, not Coke. Let me clarify Coca-Cola, not Coke. Let me clarify that. All right. CocaCola. I mean, there that. All right. CocaCola. I mean, there that. All right. CocaCola. I mean, there there are kids who sell popsicles right there are kids who sell popsicles right there are kids who sell popsicles right at a markup to their friends. Was was at a markup to their friends. Was was at a markup to their friends. Was was that you or like what led you on that that you or like what led you on that that you or like what led you on that quest? Yeah, I think what led me on that quest? Yeah, I think what led me on that quest? Yeah, I think what led me on that on that quest more than anything is I on that quest more than anything is I on that quest more than anything is I actually grew up um very much on a actually grew up um very much on a actually grew up um very much on a sports field. Okay. Okay. So, I grew up sports field. Okay. Okay. So, I grew up sports field. Okay. Okay. So, I grew up on a sports field my whole entire life.

on a sports field my whole entire life. on a sports field my whole entire life. Dad was a football coach, played golf, Dad was a football coach, played golf, Dad was a football coach, played golf, baseball, basketball through high baseball, basketball through high baseball, basketball through high school, went to college on a volleyball school, went to college on a volleyball school, went to college on a volleyball scholarship. So, I had experienced so scholarship. So, I had experienced so scholarship. So, I had experienced so many different teams and been on so many many different teams and been on so many many different teams and been on so many different teams and realized that different teams and realized that different teams and realized that there's makeups of teams that are so there's makeups of teams that are so there's makeups of teams that are so successful, makeups of teams that successful, makeups of teams that successful, makeups of teams that aren't. And I started to to really aren't. And I started to to really aren't. And I started to to really rumage in my mind that maybe there's rumage in my mind that maybe there's rumage in my mind that maybe there's something more even in organizational something more even in organizational something more even in organizational life, whether it's businesses or church, life, whether it's businesses or church, life, whether it's businesses or church, of what makes someone successful. of what makes someone successful. of what makes someone successful. Because sometimes I I've been on I've Because sometimes I I've been on I've Because sometimes I I've been on I've been on teams where we had and we could been on teams where we had and we could been on teams where we had and we could talk about more of this more of this talk about more of this more of this talk about more of this more of this later, but I'd been on teams, sports later, but I'd been on teams, sports later, but I'd been on teams, sports teams where we had some of the most teams where we had some of the most teams where we had some of the most talented players you could ever imagine talented players you could ever imagine talented players you could ever imagine and yet we couldn't win. and yet we couldn't win. and yet we couldn't win. Then I'd been on teams where we didn't Then I'd been on teams where we didn't Then I'd been on teams where we didn't have as much talent but had this extreme have as much talent but had this extreme have as much talent but had this extreme amount of um teamwork um the ability of amount of um teamwork um the ability of amount of um teamwork um the ability of of really working together that we of really working together that we of really working together that we completely exceeded probably completely exceeded probably completely exceeded probably expectations of of of teams that that expectations of of of teams that that expectations of of of teams that that weren't as talented. And this I think weren't as talented. And this I think weren't as talented. And this I think this this began to just spark maybe this this began to just spark maybe this this began to just spark maybe something inside me that hey there's something inside me that hey there's something inside me that hey there's something more here to understand not something more here to understand not something more here to understand not only on a sports field but in the only on a sports field but in the only on a sports field but in the business world. And then now in the business world. And then now in the business world. And then now in the church, what does it really look like to church, what does it really look like to church, what does it really look like to to win? Did you understand at a time to win? Did you understand at a time to win? Did you understand at a time what the difference between the two what the difference between the two what the difference between the two teams was? I I didn't. No, I I really

teams was? I I didn't. No, I I really teams was? I I didn't. No, I I really didn't. And you know, it was one of didn't. And you know, it was one of didn't. And you know, it was one of those things where, you know, when those things where, you know, when those things where, you know, when you're 16, 17, 18, 19 years old, you've you're 16, 17, 18, 19 years old, you've you're 16, 17, 18, 19 years old, you've got LeBron, but you can't win a got LeBron, but you can't win a got LeBron, but you can't win a championship. Yeah. You're you're just championship. Yeah. You're you're just championship. Yeah. You're you're just playing. You're just there. And but it playing. You're just there. And but it playing. You're just there. And but it it's it's almost confusing to you when it's it's almost confusing to you when it's it's almost confusing to you when you're at that age, right? It's it's you're at that age, right? It's it's you're at that age, right? It's it's confusing as an as an athlete to go like confusing as an as an athlete to go like confusing as an as an athlete to go like this shouldn't be happening. And looking this shouldn't be happening. And looking this shouldn't be happening. And looking back on it now, what do you see now? I back on it now, what do you see now? I back on it now, what do you see now? I see extreme clarity on what I now see um see extreme clarity on what I now see um see extreme clarity on what I now see um not only what what makes businesses not only what what makes businesses not only what what makes businesses successful, but honestly what's make successful, but honestly what's make successful, but honestly what's make what makes churches successful. Well, what makes churches successful. Well, what makes churches successful. Well, with those teams, what do you see even with those teams, what do you see even with those teams, what do you see even with those teams? So teamwork trumps with those teams? So teamwork trumps with those teams? So teamwork trumps talent all day, every day, and twice on talent all day, every day, and twice on talent all day, every day, and twice on Sunday. Sunday. Sunday. And what we can sometimes get mixed up And what we can sometimes get mixed up And what we can sometimes get mixed up in leadership is we think, hey, you you in leadership is we think, hey, you you in leadership is we think, hey, you you win by by just getting the most talented win by by just getting the most talented win by by just getting the most talented people. And for sure you want it. You people. And for sure you want it. You people. And for sure you want it. You want to get really really good people. want to get really really good people. want to get really really good people. But what you need more than anything and But what you need more than anything and But what you need more than anything and all the data, all the research and all the data, all the research and all the data, all the research and everything even when you look at the everything even when you look at the everything even when you look at the studies done by MIT, Harvard, others, it studies done by MIT, Harvard, others, it studies done by MIT, Harvard, others, it all proves out that teamwork is actually all proves out that teamwork is actually all proves out that teamwork is actually what allows um organizations and what allows um organizations and what allows um organizations and specifically churches uh uh but any specifically churches uh uh but any specifically churches uh uh but any organization to win to win over time.

organization to win to win over time. organization to win to win over time. Yeah, there is. I mean, I've read Yeah, there is. I mean, I've read Yeah, there is. I mean, I've read different studies too, Harvard Business different studies too, Harvard Business different studies too, Harvard Business Review, other business studies that show Review, other business studies that show Review, other business studies that show when you bring in stars and even that's when you bring in stars and even that's when you bring in stars and even that's why the all-star games are so boring. why the all-star games are so boring. why the all-star games are so boring. Yes. Right. You have all this top talent Yes. Right. You have all this top talent Yes. Right. You have all this top talent in a league, but they don't know how to in a league, but they don't know how to in a league, but they don't know how to play together as a team. And the same is play together as a team. And the same is play together as a team. And the same is true if you try to assemble a team of true if you try to assemble a team of true if you try to assemble a team of outside talent as all-stars. Often it outside talent as all-stars. Often it outside talent as all-stars. Often it doesn't work. That's right. Uh in the doesn't work. That's right. Uh in the doesn't work. That's right. Uh in the business context. Okay. So, let's go to business context. Okay. So, let's go to business context. Okay. So, let's go to Intel. Um, Intel is one of the top Intel. Um, Intel is one of the top Intel. Um, Intel is one of the top companies in the world. What was your companies in the world. What was your companies in the world. What was your role at Intel? You got promoted pretty role at Intel? You got promoted pretty role at Intel? You got promoted pretty quickly. I did. Yeah. You I started as, quickly. I did. Yeah. You I started as, quickly. I did. Yeah. You I started as, you know, kind of the low guy on the on you know, kind of the low guy on the on you know, kind of the low guy on the on the totem pole. And um, part of that the totem pole. And um, part of that the totem pole. And um, part of that story that I'll I'll just add is that story that I'll I'll just add is that story that I'll I'll just add is that when my wife and I got what my Jamie got when my wife and I got what my Jamie got when my wife and I got what my Jamie got hired at Intel as well. So, we both got hired at Intel as well. So, we both got hired at Intel as well. So, we both got hired. And so our running joke for a hired. And so our running joke for a hired. And so our running joke for a long time was um because we were hired long time was um because we were hired long time was um because we were hired with people that went to MIT, Harvard, with people that went to MIT, Harvard, with people that went to MIT, Harvard, Penn State, I mean you named the top Penn State, I mean you named the top Penn State, I mean you named the top tier business schools and then here we tier business schools and then here we tier business schools and then here we are with this Podunk Bible College we are with this Podunk Bible College we are with this Podunk Bible College we went to. I mean I I don't mean that you went to. I mean I I don't mean that you went to. I mean I I don't mean that you know Poduck it's just a small it was not know Poduck it's just a small it was not know Poduck it's just a small it was not prestigious small not a prestigious prestigious small not a prestigious prestigious small not a prestigious school and you know our running joke was school and you know our running joke was school and you know our running joke was how long is it going to take before they how long is it going to take before they how long is it going to take before they find out how dumb we are and and fire find out how dumb we are and and fire find out how dumb we are and and fire us? I mean, and and and honestly, uh, us? I mean, and and and honestly, uh, us? I mean, and and and honestly, uh, every room I was in, I was the dumbest every room I was in, I was the dumbest every room I was in, I was the dumbest guy in the room. And I don't I don't I guy in the room. And I don't I don't I guy in the room. And I don't I don't I don't even say that that's not self I don't even say that that's not self I don't even say that that's not self I don't say that like self-deprecating. I don't say that like self-deprecating. I don't say that like self-deprecating. I say that more as a fact that

say that more as a fact that say that more as a fact that I truly was not as IQ smart as everyone I truly was not as IQ smart as everyone I truly was not as IQ smart as everyone else that was in that I was in in the else that was in that I was in in the else that was in that I was in in the room with. I just I just I just wasn't. room with. I just I just I just wasn't. room with. I just I just I just wasn't. um but started you know in a really um but started you know in a really um but started you know in a really unique part of the organization. So unique part of the organization. So unique part of the organization. So Intel had a whole entire you know call Intel had a whole entire you know call Intel had a whole entire you know call it accounting slash you know number side it accounting slash you know number side it accounting slash you know number side of things but then they had what they of things but then they had what they of things but then they had what they would have is almost like a strategic would have is almost like a strategic would have is almost like a strategic decision support group a financial group decision support group a financial group decision support group a financial group that was designed to be a part of every that was designed to be a part of every that was designed to be a part of every business unit as a standalone group that business unit as a standalone group that business unit as a standalone group that helped that group make good decisions. helped that group make good decisions. helped that group make good decisions. So that's the group I got hired into So that's the group I got hired into So that's the group I got hired into was, hey, you're going to get connected was, hey, you're going to get connected was, hey, you're going to get connected with a very technical group of people with a very technical group of people with a very technical group of people like someone who's designing the next like someone who's designing the next like someone who's designing the next generation of of of chips or someone generation of of of chips or someone generation of of of chips or someone who's who needs to manufacture those who's who needs to manufacture those who's who needs to manufacture those chips. And your job and your team's job chips. And your job and your team's job chips. And your job and your team's job is to help them make good decisions is to help them make good decisions is to help them make good decisions based on good financial analysis, not based on good financial analysis, not based on good financial analysis, not just on what they think the next hot just on what they think the next hot just on what they think the next hot thing is. H So this this was a So it's thing is. H So this this was a So it's thing is. H So this this was a So it's kind of leading up. You had a lead up kind of leading up. You had a lead up kind of leading up. You had a lead up from a financial perspective.

from a financial perspective. from a financial perspective. Unbelievably. So our and you're 20. Unbelievably. So our and you're 20. Unbelievably. So our and you're 20. Yeah. So you're I'm 22 years old, right? Yeah. So you're I'm 22 years old, right? Yeah. So you're I'm 22 years old, right? Um so you start on the bottom rung and Um so you start on the bottom rung and Um so you start on the bottom rung and you got the your leaders above you that you got the your leaders above you that you got the your leaders above you that are doing a lot of the influence and are doing a lot of the influence and are doing a lot of the influence and you're helping support that. But then I you're helping support that. But then I you're helping support that. But then I started getting promoted up to being the started getting promoted up to being the started getting promoted up to being the person that's in the room there now person that's in the room there now person that's in the room there now trying to influence. But it was very trying to influence. But it was very trying to influence. But it was very much a role of influence where you had much a role of influence where you had much a role of influence where you had to figure out how do I use influence to to figure out how do I use influence to to figure out how do I use influence to help people see things they may not help people see things they may not help people see things they may not quite quite see. And you know looking quite quite see. And you know looking quite quite see. And you know looking back now what great training you know back now what great training you know back now what great training you know what great training to what we do now what great training to what we do now what great training to what we do now which is you know trying to help people which is you know trying to help people which is you know trying to help people see something about God and what he gave see something about God and what he gave see something about God and what he gave us through Jesus when sometimes they us through Jesus when sometimes they us through Jesus when sometimes they just can't they can't they can't see it just can't they can't they can't see it just can't they can't they can't see it or they have so many barriers to it. So, or they have so many barriers to it. So, or they have so many barriers to it. So, it was it was actually, you know, it was it was actually, you know, it was it was actually, you know, looking back now, I kind of I kind of looking back now, I kind of I kind of looking back now, I kind of I kind of chuckle, but it was it was really good chuckle, but it was it was really good chuckle, but it was it was really good training. Do you know why they put you training. Do you know why they put you training. Do you know why they put you there? there? there? Um, Um, Um, I don't know exactly. I think I think I don't know exactly. I think I think I don't know exactly. I think I think they may have seen that just maybe fit they may have seen that just maybe fit they may have seen that just maybe fit the skill set that I had. Um but you the skill set that I had. Um but you the skill set that I had. Um but you know going back to one of the big know going back to one of the big know going back to one of the big learnings learnings learnings you know that that I had at Intel is um you know that that I had at Intel is um you know that that I had at Intel is um I was so insecure when I first started I was so insecure when I first started I was so insecure when I first started about um being around all these people about um being around all these people about um being around all these people that are truly more talented and and that are truly more talented and and that are truly more talented and and smarter than I am. Yeah. Best in the smarter than I am. Yeah. Best in the smarter than I am. Yeah. Best in the world. Um best in the world. Right. And world. Um best in the world. Right. And world. Um best in the world. Right. And you know understanding how could I ever you know understanding how could I ever you know understanding how could I ever be successful when I am not as smart as be successful when I am not as smart as be successful when I am not as smart as them. I'm I'm I'm going to get I'm going them. I'm I'm I'm going to get I'm going them. I'm I'm I'm going to get I'm going to get fired. I remember real early on

to get fired. I remember real early on to get fired. I remember real early on in the company, they assigned you a in the company, they assigned you a in the company, they assigned you a mentor and I know exactly where I was mentor and I know exactly where I was mentor and I know exactly where I was at. I was sitting around this table in at. I was sitting around this table in at. I was sitting around this table in uh you know the this this break room at uh you know the this this break room at uh you know the this this break room at Intel and the mentor they assigned me Intel and the mentor they assigned me Intel and the mentor they assigned me his name was Steve Row. He's a vice his name was Steve Row. He's a vice his name was Steve Row. He's a vice president of the company at the time and president of the company at the time and president of the company at the time and I sat down with Steve and it it became a I sat down with Steve and it it became a I sat down with Steve and it it became a defining conversation for my life and defining conversation for my life and defining conversation for my life and leadership. And what happened with Steve leadership. And what happened with Steve leadership. And what happened with Steve is I sat down with Steve and I just is I sat down with Steve and I just is I sat down with Steve and I just asked him one question that was just asked him one question that was just asked him one question that was just burning in my heart and mind. I said, burning in my heart and mind. I said, burning in my heart and mind. I said, "Steve, what does it take for someone to "Steve, what does it take for someone to "Steve, what does it take for someone to be successful at Intel?" be successful at Intel?" be successful at Intel?" And what he told me changed the And what he told me changed the And what he told me changed the trajectory of my leadership. And it's trajectory of my leadership. And it's trajectory of my leadership. And it's almost like God knew I needed that almost like God knew I needed that almost like God knew I needed that meeting with him. And what Steve said is meeting with him. And what Steve said is meeting with him. And what Steve said is he said, "Hey, when I was hired at Intel he said, "Hey, when I was hired at Intel he said, "Hey, when I was hired at Intel over 20 years ago, he said almost over 20 years ago, he said almost over 20 years ago, he said almost everyone I was hired with was smarter everyone I was hired with was smarter everyone I was hired with was smarter than me." And I per I perked up almost than me." And I per I perked up almost than me." And I per I perked up almost like perked up. I was like, "That's like perked up. I was like, "That's like perked up. I was like, "That's that's me." He said, "But I've that's me." He said, "But I've that's me." He said, "But I've progressed so much um better and and got progressed so much um better and and got progressed so much um better and and got promoted so much more." He said, promoted so much more." He said, promoted so much more." He said, "Ashley, let me tell you something. The "Ashley, let me tell you something. The "Ashley, let me tell you something. The most successful people in the world, most successful people in the world, most successful people in the world, it's not because of their IQ. It's it's not because of their IQ. It's it's not because of their IQ. It's because of their EQ." Now, when he said because of their EQ." Now, when he said because of their EQ." Now, when he said EQ, I'd never even heard that term.

EQ, I'd never even heard that term. EQ, I'd never even heard that term. Yeah. I said, I think it was being Ford. Yeah. I said, I think it was being Ford. Yeah. I said, I think it was being Ford. It's Daniel Goldman for like coined it It's Daniel Goldman for like coined it It's Daniel Goldman for like coined it in the '9s. In 1998, he Steve handed me in the '9s. In 1998, he Steve handed me in the '9s. In 1998, he Steve handed me an article that is still my favorite an article that is still my favorite an article that is still my favorite leadership article to this day. Daniel leadership article to this day. Daniel leadership article to this day. Daniel Goldman wrote a wrote an article for Goldman wrote a wrote an article for Goldman wrote a wrote an article for Harvard Business Review. I was going to Harvard Business Review. I was going to Harvard Business Review. I was going to say it's the HBR article, isn't it? 1998 say it's the HBR article, isn't it? 1998 say it's the HBR article, isn't it? 1998 titled, "What makes a leader?" Wow. And titled, "What makes a leader?" Wow. And titled, "What makes a leader?" Wow. And he talked about the importance of he talked about the importance of he talked about the importance of emotional intelligence over just your emotional intelligence over just your emotional intelligence over just your IQ. IQ. IQ. And so when Steve told me that, it set And so when Steve told me that, it set And so when Steve told me that, it set me on this trajectory of saying, "Okay, me on this trajectory of saying, "Okay, me on this trajectory of saying, "Okay, I have to learn to be not just you you I have to learn to be not just you you I have to learn to be not just you you you want to keep increasing obviously you want to keep increasing obviously you want to keep increasing obviously your your IQ and your skill sets and your your IQ and your skill sets and your your IQ and your skill sets and everything, but you really have to lean everything, but you really have to lean everything, but you really have to lean into this idea of can you be really the into this idea of can you be really the into this idea of can you be really the most emotionally intelligent person?" most emotionally intelligent person?" most emotionally intelligent person?" And what I found at Intel, and I think And what I found at Intel, and I think And what I found at Intel, and I think the reason that I was promoted, and I the reason that I was promoted, and I the reason that I was promoted, and I think the reason Jamie would would have think the reason Jamie would would have think the reason Jamie would would have the exact same story, is that we just the exact same story, is that we just the exact same story, is that we just really tried to lean into this idea of really tried to lean into this idea of really tried to lean into this idea of what does it look like to be really what does it look like to be really what does it look like to be really emotionally intelligent. And the more emotionally intelligent. And the more emotionally intelligent. And the more you look at the the skill, when Daniel you look at the the skill, when Daniel you look at the the skill, when Daniel Goldman wrote that article, it wasn't a Goldman wrote that article, it wasn't a Goldman wrote that article, it wasn't a a biblical or Christianity based a biblical or Christianity based a biblical or Christianity based article, but when you look at the skills article, but when you look at the skills article, but when you look at the skills he talks about of what it means to be he talks about of what it means to be he talks about of what it means to be emotionally intelligent, they are skill emotionally intelligent, they are skill emotionally intelligent, they are skill sets every follower of Jesus should sets every follower of Jesus should sets every follower of Jesus should absolutely excel at. It would be absolutely excel at. It would be absolutely excel at. It would be interesting to have Pete Scazero weigh interesting to have Pete Scazero weigh interesting to have Pete Scazero weigh in on this just right now. Zip in here, in on this just right now. Zip in here, in on this just right now. Zip in here, Pete. But emotional intelligence and Pete. But emotional intelligence and Pete. But emotional intelligence and spiritual intelligence, like those are spiritual intelligence, like those are spiritual intelligence, like those are very closely linked. So what were some

very closely linked. So what were some very closely linked. So what were some of the key insights that you learned of the key insights that you learned of the key insights that you learned that led to your rapid rise at Intel? that led to your rapid rise at Intel? that led to your rapid rise at Intel? Like what as you learned emotional Like what as you learned emotional Like what as you learned emotional intelligence? intelligence? intelligence? Uh cuz it's in the lexicon now, but I Uh cuz it's in the lexicon now, but I Uh cuz it's in the lexicon now, but I think a lot of people don't actually think a lot of people don't actually think a lot of people don't actually know what it means. They don't. I mean, know what it means. They don't. I mean, know what it means. They don't. I mean, so it's emotional intelligence is a so it's emotional intelligence is a so it's emotional intelligence is a combination of a a deep self-awareness, combination of a a deep self-awareness, combination of a a deep self-awareness, um which by the way, you know, John um which by the way, you know, John um which by the way, you know, John Maxwell has this great quote that Maxwell has this great quote that Maxwell has this great quote that self-awareness is a myth because most of self-awareness is a myth because most of self-awareness is a myth because most of your awareness didn't come from you. It your awareness didn't come from you. It your awareness didn't come from you. It came from other people. I have not heard came from other people. I have not heard came from other people. I have not heard that. And I love that. I love that. Very that. And I love that. I love that. Very that. And I love that. I love that. Very true because almost everything you know true because almost everything you know true because almost everything you know about yourself that you've gotten about yourself that you've gotten about yourself that you've gotten awareness from, it didn't come from you awareness from, it didn't come from you awareness from, it didn't come from you just magically sitting in a in a dark just magically sitting in a in a dark just magically sitting in a in a dark room, right? It came from other people room, right? It came from other people room, right? It came from other people saying, "Hey, Carrie. Um, let me tell saying, "Hey, Carrie. Um, let me tell saying, "Hey, Carrie. Um, let me tell you something about when you do that you something about when you do that you something about when you do that when you were in that meeting like when when you were in that meeting like when when you were in that meeting like when you said that, you know, your wife, you said that, you know, your wife, you said that, you know, your wife, right? I mean, your my wife telling me, right? I mean, your my wife telling me, right? I mean, your my wife telling me, "Hey, do you know how you come across in "Hey, do you know how you come across in "Hey, do you know how you come across in those meet?" So you got to a deeper those meet?" So you got to a deeper those meet?" So you got to a deeper level of self-awareness combined with an level of self-awareness combined with an level of self-awareness combined with an awareness of of other people. So deep awareness of of other people. So deep awareness of of other people. So deep empathy and and and understanding what empathy and and and understanding what empathy and and and understanding what makes other people tick and then great makes other people tick and then great makes other people tick and then great social awareness of saying hey this social awareness of saying hey this social awareness of saying hey this isn't about me and it's not about you isn't about me and it's not about you isn't about me and it's not about you know my life is not designed and this know my life is not designed and this know my life is not designed and this isn't exactly how EQ would phrase it.

isn't exactly how EQ would phrase it. isn't exactly how EQ would phrase it. It's how I would phrase it that the the It's how I would phrase it that the the It's how I would phrase it that the the empathy side thing. This life wasn't empathy side thing. This life wasn't empathy side thing. This life wasn't designed to be about you. It was designed to be about you. It was designed to be about you. It was designed to be about can you invest in designed to be about can you invest in designed to be about can you invest in others and can you do more together as a others and can you do more together as a others and can you do more together as a team than you could ever with just you team than you could ever with just you team than you could ever with just you winning. Right? So these are just all winning. Right? So these are just all winning. Right? So these are just all traits of emotional intelligence that I traits of emotional intelligence that I traits of emotional intelligence that I think when you really try to live those think when you really try to live those think when you really try to live those out in any setting, I don't care if it's out in any setting, I don't care if it's out in any setting, I don't care if it's the business world or the church, that's the business world or the church, that's the business world or the church, that's how I think a lot of times you can make how I think a lot of times you can make how I think a lot of times you can make more more progress. Refresh my memory, more more progress. Refresh my memory, more more progress. Refresh my memory, but I think one of the and I'm going but I think one of the and I'm going but I think one of the and I'm going somewhere with this. One of the somewhere with this. One of the somewhere with this. One of the characteristics of emotional characteristics of emotional characteristics of emotional intelligence Gleman uh named was not intelligence Gleman uh named was not intelligence Gleman uh named was not just self-awareness but self-regulation. just self-awareness but self-regulation. just self-awareness but self-regulation. That's right. The ability to go like That's right. The ability to go like That's right. The ability to go like what I really want to do then what I'm what I really want to do then what I'm what I really want to do then what I'm going to do is very different. How did going to do is very different. How did going to do is very different. How did you see that? How did that help you at you see that? How did that help you at you see that? How did that help you at Intel? Self-awareness, self-regulation. Intel? Self-awareness, self-regulation. Intel? Self-awareness, self-regulation. So, this is a huge concept because So, this is a huge concept because So, this is a huge concept because there's a lot of people that if you sat there's a lot of people that if you sat there's a lot of people that if you sat down with them and told and asked them, down with them and told and asked them, down with them and told and asked them, hey, are you self-aware? They could tell hey, are you self-aware? They could tell hey, are you self-aware? They could tell you their strengths, their weaknesses, you their strengths, their weaknesses, you their strengths, their weaknesses, um, and and nail it to a tea. Yeah. And um, and and nail it to a tea. Yeah. And um, and and nail it to a tea. Yeah. And I'm an anagram 8, so I'm just going to I'm an anagram 8, so I'm just going to I'm an anagram 8, so I'm just going to drive a truck through this. Right.

drive a truck through this. Right. drive a truck through this. Right. Right. And you're like, "Hey, I'm an Right. And you're like, "Hey, I'm an Right. And you're like, "Hey, I'm an eight." You could describe yourself. eight." You could describe yourself. eight." You could describe yourself. Great. But self, so self-awareness, Great. But self, so self-awareness, Great. But self, so self-awareness, self-regulation is can you actually dial self-regulation is can you actually dial self-regulation is can you actually dial those things in certain settings where those things in certain settings where those things in certain settings where you don't come across like for example, you don't come across like for example, you don't come across like for example, you as an eight, can can you you as an eight, can can you you as an eight, can can you self-regulate yourself to where you are self-regulate yourself to where you are self-regulate yourself to where you are not the person that everybody hates not the person that everybody hates not the person that everybody hates being around? Oh, I'm doing the being around? Oh, I'm doing the being around? Oh, I'm doing the interview here. Don't don't ask those interview here. Don't don't ask those interview here. Don't don't ask those questions. No, but that is a very big questions. No, but that is a very big questions. No, but that is a very big life struggle. Um, you know, that life struggle. Um, you know, that life struggle. Um, you know, that regulation when you have extreme regulation when you have extreme regulation when you have extreme personalities. And one of the reasons I personalities. And one of the reasons I personalities. And one of the reasons I wanted to ask it is, you know, you lead wanted to ask it is, you know, you lead wanted to ask it is, you know, you lead maybe the second or third like top three maybe the second or third like top three maybe the second or third like top three largest churches in America, period. And largest churches in America, period. And largest churches in America, period. And I've been around you and your wife, I've been around you and your wife, I've been around you and your wife, who's also going to be on a podcast who's also going to be on a podcast who's also going to be on a podcast episode with us. We're having you back. episode with us. We're having you back. episode with us. We're having you back. Um, Um, Um, if I I like I play this game in my head, if I I like I play this game in my head, if I I like I play this game in my head, Ashley, which is fun, which is like spot Ashley, which is fun, which is like spot Ashley, which is fun, which is like spot the megaurch pastor and you fly under the megaurch pastor and you fly under the megaurch pastor and you fly under the radar, which is one of the reasons the radar, which is one of the reasons the radar, which is one of the reasons I'm very excited to have this I'm very excited to have this I'm very excited to have this conversation. I bet you most aspiring conversation. I bet you most aspiring conversation. I bet you most aspiring leaders in a room, if I'm like, spot the leaders in a room, if I'm like, spot the leaders in a room, if I'm like, spot the guy with the like second, third biggest guy with the like second, third biggest guy with the like second, third biggest church in America right now, they would church in America right now, they would church in America right now, they would not pick you. Yeah. You're very not pick you. Yeah. You're very not pick you. Yeah. You're very modulated.

modulated. modulated. you you have a very quiet but strong you you have a very quiet but strong you you have a very quiet but strong demeanor. Um, a little bit like Chris demeanor. Um, a little bit like Chris demeanor. Um, a little bit like Chris Hodgees. Chris also pretty much flies Hodgees. Chris also pretty much flies Hodgees. Chris also pretty much flies under the radar. Uh, you know, very under the radar. Uh, you know, very under the radar. Uh, you know, very modulated, etc. modulated, etc. modulated, etc. Was some of that a result of Was some of that a result of Was some of that a result of self-awareness, self-regulation? Does self-awareness, self-regulation? Does self-awareness, self-regulation? Does that go back to your intel days or is that go back to your intel days or is that go back to your intel days or is that your natural personality? that your natural personality? that your natural personality? I think I think part of it goes back to I think I think part of it goes back to I think I think part of it goes back to the EQ. Part of it just goes back to um the EQ. Part of it just goes back to um the EQ. Part of it just goes back to um you know this idea of when when I think you know this idea of when when I think you know this idea of when when I think about the church and and what I want you about the church and and what I want you about the church and and what I want you know for our church. I mean I really know for our church. I mean I really know for our church. I mean I really want God's hand of blessing on our want God's hand of blessing on our want God's hand of blessing on our church. And one of the ways I think God church. And one of the ways I think God church. And one of the ways I think God puts his hand of blessing on churches puts his hand of blessing on churches puts his hand of blessing on churches not for the short term but for the long not for the short term but for the long not for the short term but for the long term is just through you know you term is just through you know you term is just through you know you through you leading out of a deep sense through you leading out of a deep sense through you leading out of a deep sense of humility. It's not about you. It's of humility. It's not about you. It's of humility. It's not about you. It's not designed to be about you. And so, not designed to be about you. And so, not designed to be about you. And so, um, I' I've we enjoy running we we enjoy um, I' I've we enjoy running we we enjoy um, I' I've we enjoy running we we enjoy running under the radar, you know, to to running under the radar, you know, to to running under the radar, you know, to to a degree. And you don't always get to a degree. And you don't always get to a degree. And you don't always get to run under the radar. You be on this run under the radar. You be on this run under the radar. You be on this being on this podcast probably doesn't being on this podcast probably doesn't being on this podcast probably doesn't help help that. Uh, so, but um, but help help that. Uh, so, but um, but help help that. Uh, so, but um, but really we we just want to make sure and really we we just want to make sure and really we we just want to make sure and and I say we, I think our team this way.

and I say we, I think our team this way. and I say we, I think our team this way. We we don't ever want the church to be We we don't ever want the church to be We we don't ever want the church to be built on um a personality on on me. Um built on um a personality on on me. Um built on um a personality on on me. Um yeah, it's one of the things I noticed yeah, it's one of the things I noticed yeah, it's one of the things I noticed from coming from the business world into from coming from the business world into from coming from the business world into the into into the church is um it's so the into into the church is um it's so the into into the church is um it's so much easier in the church for much easier in the church for much easier in the church for and you know give me give listeners give and you know give me give listeners give and you know give me give listeners give me some grace when I use this language me some grace when I use this language me some grace when I use this language when I say the product. What is the when I say the product. What is the when I say the product. What is the product of the church? When I when I say product of the church? When I when I say product of the church? When I when I say product, I don't mean it the way you product, I don't mean it the way you product, I don't mean it the way you might think about it. I just mean what might think about it. I just mean what might think about it. I just mean what is the main thing that we're what's the is the main thing that we're what's the is the main thing that we're what's the main thing? Well, our main thing is main thing? Well, our main thing is main thing? Well, our main thing is Jesus. Like we're trying to point people Jesus. Like we're trying to point people Jesus. Like we're trying to point people to him. What I noticed in the church is to him. What I noticed in the church is to him. What I noticed in the church is that where in in in the business world, that where in in in the business world, that where in in in the business world, it's so easy for you to have the product it's so easy for you to have the product it's so easy for you to have the product not be a person. So when I was at Intel, not be a person. So when I was at Intel, not be a person. So when I was at Intel, we had amazing CEOs. I mean guys that we had amazing CEOs. I mean guys that we had amazing CEOs. I mean guys that were, you know, leaders of leaders of were, you know, leaders of leaders of were, you know, leaders of leaders of leaders, the best of the best of the leaders, the best of the best of the leaders, the best of the best of the best. best. best. But when you thought about Intel, you But when you thought about Intel, you But when you thought about Intel, you didn't naturally think about the leader.

didn't naturally think about the leader. didn't naturally think about the leader. You thought about the actual You thought about the actual You thought about the actual microprocessor. microprocessor. microprocessor. You actually thought about like what was You actually thought about like what was You actually thought about like what was inside that computer that is the inside that computer that is the inside that computer that is the product. In the church world, it's so product. In the church world, it's so product. In the church world, it's so easy to just the way obviously with um easy to just the way obviously with um easy to just the way obviously with um you know how we do church. It's not not you know how we do church. It's not not you know how we do church. It's not not bad. It's just it's just so much easier bad. It's just it's just so much easier bad. It's just it's just so much easier for when people think about the church for when people think about the church for when people think about the church like they think about what's the main like they think about what's the main like they think about what's the main thing. They think about a person's name. thing. They think about a person's name. thing. They think about a person's name. They think about a pastor. And I think They think about a pastor. And I think They think about a pastor. And I think that's just really dangerous. You know, that's just really dangerous. You know, that's just really dangerous. You know, we try to fight against it as much as we we try to fight against it as much as we we try to fight against it as much as we can, but I think that's really dangerous can, but I think that's really dangerous can, but I think that's really dangerous when the main product of the church when the main product of the church when the main product of the church becomes a name or a pastor versus, you becomes a name or a pastor versus, you becomes a name or a pastor versus, you know, who we're really trying to point know, who we're really trying to point know, who we're really trying to point people to, which is Jesus. I think it people to, which is Jesus. I think it people to, which is Jesus. I think it was you who gave me that framing a few was you who gave me that framing a few was you who gave me that framing a few years ago that there is a problem when years ago that there is a problem when years ago that there is a problem when the pastor is the product. Yeah. Um, the pastor is the product. Yeah. Um, the pastor is the product. Yeah. Um, you're the principal communicator. Yeah. you're the principal communicator. Yeah. you're the principal communicator. Yeah. You were up, we were here on the You were up, we were here on the You were up, we were here on the weekend, Tony and I, and uh, you gave an weekend, Tony and I, and uh, you gave an weekend, Tony and I, and uh, you gave an incredible message incredible message incredible message and you do live video to how many and you do live video to how many and you do live video to how many campuses, how many locations do you campuses, how many locations do you campuses, how many locations do you have? 18. 18. Yeah. How do you guard have? 18. 18. Yeah. How do you guard have? 18. 18. Yeah. How do you guard against the pastor being the product against the pastor being the product against the pastor being the product when you've got 40 minutes of a when you've got 40 minutes of a when you've got 40 minutes of a 60-minute service on video across 18 60-minute service on video across 18 60-minute service on video across 18 locations? Yeah. I first of all I think locations? Yeah. I first of all I think locations? Yeah. I first of all I think it's it's it's really hard. I mean it's it's it's it's really hard. I mean it's it's it's it's really hard. I mean it's really really hard because natur people really really hard because natur people really really hard because natur people want to naturally go there. Um and you want to naturally go there. Um and you want to naturally go there. Um and you know how do we guard against that? I know how do we guard against that? I know how do we guard against that? I think one we you know we we do have a

think one we you know we we do have a think one we you know we we do have a teaching team. Um and I really value teaching team. Um and I really value teaching team. Um and I really value that cuz I think I I want I want people that cuz I think I I want I want people that cuz I think I I want I want people to understand that um you know God's to understand that um you know God's to understand that um you know God's word isn't just communicated through me. word isn't just communicated through me. word isn't just communicated through me. It's communicated through mult multiple It's communicated through mult multiple It's communicated through mult multiple people here. And you know, we're always people here. And you know, we're always people here. And you know, we're always trying to to make sure that we are, you trying to to make sure that we are, you trying to to make sure that we are, you know, saying, "Man, can I I love that know, saying, "Man, can I I love that know, saying, "Man, can I I love that message last week from from Mark who's message last week from from Mark who's message last week from from Mark who's on our teaching team. I love that on our teaching team. I love that on our teaching team. I love that message, you know, when Dave preached message, you know, when Dave preached message, you know, when Dave preached that." So, we're always trying to make that." So, we're always trying to make that." So, we're always trying to make it about the team. So, I'm going to go it about the team. So, I'm going to go it about the team. So, I'm going to go back to what I talked about even back to what I talked about even back to what I talked about even earlier. You're continually making it earlier. You're continually making it earlier. You're continually making it about the team. You're not making it about the team. You're not making it about the team. You're not making it about one person. And any chance I'll about one person. And any chance I'll about one person. And any chance I'll get, I'll I'll use the chance right now. get, I'll I'll use the chance right now. get, I'll I'll use the chance right now. Um this church we we have this Um this church we we have this Um this church we we have this incredible team you know we incredible incredible team you know we incredible incredible team you know we incredible executive team incredible leadership executive team incredible leadership executive team incredible leadership team we have incredible team of people team we have incredible team of people team we have incredible team of people across all you know walks of the church across all you know walks of the church across all you know walks of the church and I feel like my job is to keep and I feel like my job is to keep and I feel like my job is to keep pointing and saying man what you know pointing and saying man what you know pointing and saying man what you know when when people come up to me and say when when people come up to me and say when when people come up to me and say man we just love this church we love you man we just love this church we love you man we just love this church we love you you changed our life no I didn't change you changed our life no I didn't change you changed our life no I didn't change your life um God changed your life and your life um God changed your life and your life um God changed your life and by the way what you love about this by the way what you love about this by the way what you love about this church is number one we have an church is number one we have an church is number one we have an incredible team of leaders from campus incredible team of leaders from campus incredible team of leaders from campus pastors, man, to associate pastors to pastors, man, to associate pastors to pastors, man, to associate pastors to kids pastors to student pastors. And we kids pastors to student pastors. And we kids pastors to student pastors. And we I keep pointing people there. Aren't I keep pointing people there. Aren't I keep pointing people there. Aren't they amazing? And then we have this they amazing? And then we have this they amazing? And then we have this incredible group of volunteers at this incredible group of volunteers at this incredible group of volunteers at this church. I'm like, if if you love church. I'm like, if if you love church. I'm like, if if you love anything about this church, I promise anything about this church, I promise anything about this church, I promise you it's it's not about it's not about you it's it's not about it's not about you it's it's not about it's not about me. It's really about the team that me. It's really about the team that me. It's really about the team that makes really all of this and what God's

makes really all of this and what God's makes really all of this and what God's doing here. It's always about, you know, doing here. It's always about, you know, doing here. It's always about, you know, you're just continue trying to say it's you're just continue trying to say it's you're just continue trying to say it's all about the team. all about the team. all about the team. So when you say that, I'm going to be So when you say that, I'm going to be So when you say that, I'm going to be transparent here. When you say that, I transparent here. When you say that, I transparent here. When you say that, I believe it. Yeah. I'm looking into your believe it. Yeah. I'm looking into your believe it. Yeah. I'm looking into your eyes. I'm watching your demeanor and eyes. I'm watching your demeanor and eyes. I'm watching your demeanor and we've known each other a few years. I we've known each other a few years. I we've known each other a few years. I believe it. There are other pastors who believe it. There are other pastors who believe it. There are other pastors who might say the exact same words, and I'm might say the exact same words, and I'm might say the exact same words, and I'm not sure I would 100% Yeah. believe it. not sure I would 100% Yeah. believe it. not sure I would 100% Yeah. believe it. What, And this could go back to Intel. What, And this could go back to Intel. What, And this could go back to Intel. This could just be what you've This could just be what you've This could just be what you've cultivated now over almost two decades cultivated now over almost two decades cultivated now over almost two decades here at CCV. here at CCV. here at CCV. What keeps you at the point where you're What keeps you at the point where you're What keeps you at the point where you're one of the fastest growing churches in one of the fastest growing churches in one of the fastest growing churches in the nation, one of the biggest churches the nation, one of the biggest churches the nation, one of the biggest churches in the nation? What are the disciplines, in the nation? What are the disciplines, in the nation? What are the disciplines, habits, realities habits, realities habits, realities that keep that real for you? And the that keep that real for you? And the that keep that real for you? And the reason I'm asking, Ashley, is it's just reason I'm asking, Ashley, is it's just reason I'm asking, Ashley, is it's just so easy to get caught up in your own so easy to get caught up in your own so easy to get caught up in your own hype. Like, I've done it at times. It's hype. Like, I've done it at times. It's hype. Like, I've done it at times. It's very easy to do. So, what are you doing very easy to do. So, what are you doing very easy to do. So, what are you doing discipline-wise or otherwise that keeps discipline-wise or otherwise that keeps discipline-wise or otherwise that keeps you as grounded as you can be in what you as grounded as you can be in what you as grounded as you can be in what you just said? Well, let me let me just you just said? Well, let me let me just you just said? Well, let me let me just get pretty transparent for a minute. Um, get pretty transparent for a minute. Um, get pretty transparent for a minute. Um, that I struggle with it as much as I that I struggle with it as much as I that I struggle with it as much as I think anybody on the planet. I mean, think anybody on the planet. I mean, think anybody on the planet. I mean, it's it feels good for people to I mean, it's it feels good for people to I mean, it's it feels good for people to I mean, let's let's be really real and honest let's let's be really real and honest let's let's be really real and honest here. It feels really good when people here. It feels really good when people here. It feels really good when people are praising something that you know are praising something that you know are praising something that you know that the the message what you did saying that the the message what you did saying that the the message what you did saying you won't believe that that changed my you won't believe that that changed my you won't believe that that changed my life and it's like oh gosh but but it's life and it's like oh gosh but but it's life and it's like oh gosh but but it's it's God's word it's his spirit that's

it's God's word it's his spirit that's it's God's word it's his spirit that's changing but it feels good. It does. So changing but it feels good. It does. So changing but it feels good. It does. So I'm I'm just going to be really I'm I'm just going to be really I'm I'm just going to be really transparent. I think I can slip there um transparent. I think I can slip there um transparent. I think I can slip there um you know quickly and I'm continually you know quickly and I'm continually you know quickly and I'm continually just trying to bring myself back and just trying to bring myself back and just trying to bring myself back and part of it talking about it right and part of it talking about it right and part of it talking about it right and admitting it to your team and you know I admitting it to your team and you know I admitting it to your team and you know I might say to our team sometimes like hey might say to our team sometimes like hey might say to our team sometimes like hey guys um and and that's why you know you guys um and and that's why you know you guys um and and that's why you know you just have to be transparent about admit just have to be transparent about admit just have to be transparent about admit it so that you have people around you it so that you have people around you it so that you have people around you that can continue to bring you back to that can continue to bring you back to that can continue to bring you back to center. I heard a quote um a long time center. I heard a quote um a long time center. I heard a quote um a long time ago from a pastor I really really ago from a pastor I really really ago from a pastor I really really respect about praise because sometimes respect about praise because sometimes respect about praise because sometimes it's the praise we get that feeds it's the praise we get that feeds it's the praise we get that feeds something inside of us that makes us something inside of us that makes us something inside of us that makes us think we're more than we actually are. think we're more than we actually are. think we're more than we actually are. And he said praise is like perfume. You And he said praise is like perfume. You And he said praise is like perfume. You can smell it and be okay, but when you can smell it and be okay, but when you can smell it and be okay, but when you drink it, it makes you sick. Yes. And I thought that was really good Yes. And I thought that was really good because when someone comes up and says because when someone comes up and says because when someone comes up and says like wow that was that that message was like wow that was that that message was like wow that was that that message was so you know it was amazing. It's like so you know it was amazing. It's like so you know it was amazing. It's like like say thank you but quickly quickly like say thank you but quickly quickly like say thank you but quickly quickly divert to say to say hey this this is divert to say to say hey this this is divert to say to say hey this this is what I think's really really happening what I think's really really happening what I think's really really happening if if your life's being changed. you're if if your life's being changed. you're if if your life's being changed. you're not drinking that praise about you cuz not drinking that praise about you cuz not drinking that praise about you cuz it's we keep praying like you know I it's we keep praying like you know I it's we keep praying like you know I have this prayer pray prayer every time have this prayer pray prayer every time have this prayer pray prayer every time I preach which is God when I step up to I preach which is God when I step up to I preach which is God when I step up to preach I pray you take my words and turn preach I pray you take my words and turn preach I pray you take my words and turn them into your words cuz you're the one them into your words cuz you're the one them into your words cuz you're the one that can change people not me. So if I that can change people not me. So if I that can change people not me. So if I believe that, then I got to be really believe that, then I got to be really believe that, then I got to be really careful when someone says, "Hey, you

careful when someone says, "Hey, you careful when someone says, "Hey, you know, my life got changed here." Or they know, my life got changed here." Or they know, my life got changed here." Or they they try to point back to you in some they try to point back to you in some they try to point back to you in some way that you're always saying, "No, no, way that you're always saying, "No, no, way that you're always saying, "No, no, no, no. You're you're diverting to no, no. You're you're diverting to no, no. You're you're diverting to actually who changed your life." And actually who changed your life." And actually who changed your life." And that's that's Jesus and his spirit. that's that's Jesus and his spirit. that's that's Jesus and his spirit. Yeah. I think I think you know, I'm Yeah. I think I think you know, I'm Yeah. I think I think you know, I'm guessing here, but I think maybe one of guessing here, but I think maybe one of guessing here, but I think maybe one of the other things that keeps you grounded the other things that keeps you grounded the other things that keeps you grounded is your marriage. And we have Jamie on. is your marriage. And we have Jamie on. is your marriage. And we have Jamie on. Gosh, you'll see. She doesn't believe my Gosh, you'll see. She doesn't believe my Gosh, you'll see. She doesn't believe my hype. She doesn't believe I mean she she hype. She doesn't believe I mean she she hype. She doesn't believe I mean she she I mean it is it is so good to have a I mean it is it is so good to have a I mean it is it is so good to have a wife that does not think you are like wife that does not think you are like wife that does not think you are like anything a victim and she keeps me so anything a victim and she keeps me so anything a victim and she keeps me so grounded. I mean she she just brings me grounded. I mean she she just brings me grounded. I mean she she just brings me back to earth faster than anybody. And back to earth faster than anybody. And back to earth faster than anybody. And by the way that's I mean that's a gift. by the way that's I mean that's a gift. by the way that's I mean that's a gift. That is a gift. That is a gift. And I That is a gift. That is a gift. And I That is a gift. That is a gift. And I know Tony and I I know Tony Tony is the know Tony and I I know Tony Tony is the know Tony and I I know Tony Tony is the same with she's really sweet but my same with she's really sweet but my same with she's really sweet but my goodness that spine is made of metal. goodness that spine is made of metal. goodness that spine is made of metal. you you are not going to bend that spine you you are not going to bend that spine you you are not going to bend that spine and I love it and I hate it depending on and I love it and I hate it depending on and I love it and I hate it depending on the moment and absolutely respect it and the moment and absolutely respect it and the moment and absolutely respect it and adore it and need it. Um yeah, so adore it and need it. Um yeah, so adore it and need it. Um yeah, so a decade at Intel. Yeah, just just under a decade at Intel. Yeah, just just under a decade at Intel. Yeah, just just under just under a decade. Um what were some just under a decade. Um what were some just under a decade. Um what were some other lessons that you think church other lessons that you think church other lessons that you think church leaders could learn from corporate leaders could learn from corporate leaders could learn from corporate leaders, you know, or even your time at leaders, you know, or even your time at leaders, you know, or even your time at Intel? I mean, I just had the one year Intel? I mean, I just had the one year Intel? I mean, I just had the one year where I worked at a law firm. I think where I worked at a law firm. I think where I worked at a law firm. I think about that every week, not every day, about that every week, not every day, about that every week, not every day, but there's so much I learned in that but there's so much I learned in that but there's so much I learned in that year in law that really, really helps.

year in law that really, really helps. year in law that really, really helps. And then the 5 years of training and bar And then the 5 years of training and bar And then the 5 years of training and bar ads and all that stuff, but um I think ads and all that stuff, but um I think ads and all that stuff, but um I think the church needs more of that the church needs more of that the church needs more of that cross-disciplinary learning. and we're cross-disciplinary learning. and we're cross-disciplinary learning. and we're not a corporation, but my goodness, when not a corporation, but my goodness, when not a corporation, but my goodness, when you're dealing with 55,000 people on a you're dealing with 55,000 people on a you're dealing with 55,000 people on a weekend over 18 locations and rapid weekend over 18 locations and rapid weekend over 18 locations and rapid growth, um there's a complexity to it growth, um there's a complexity to it growth, um there's a complexity to it that demands the most of you as a that demands the most of you as a that demands the most of you as a leader. So, what else did you learn at leader. So, what else did you learn at leader. So, what else did you learn at Intel? Well, let me say this first, too. Intel? Well, let me say this first, too. Intel? Well, let me say this first, too. Um I don't think there's leadership Um I don't think there's leadership Um I don't think there's leadership principles for the business world and principles for the business world and principles for the business world and leadership principles for the church. I leadership principles for the church. I leadership principles for the church. I think any leadership principle that think any leadership principle that think any leadership principle that works came from God himself. So there's works came from God himself. So there's works came from God himself. So there's there there there's there there's just there there there's there there's just there there there's there there's just good godly leadership principles and I good godly leadership principles and I good godly leadership principles and I think sometimes I was amazed how much of think sometimes I was amazed how much of think sometimes I was amazed how much of those come out by leaders in you know those come out by leaders in you know those come out by leaders in you know corporate America that I saw. So I'll corporate America that I saw. So I'll corporate America that I saw. So I'll tell you a few other you know lessons I tell you a few other you know lessons I tell you a few other you know lessons I learned there that have really tried to learned there that have really tried to learned there that have really tried to um let be things that guide my um let be things that guide my um let be things that guide my leadership here. Um, I'll I'll do one leadership here. Um, I'll I'll do one leadership here. Um, I'll I'll do one big one and then one that drills in a big one and then one that drills in a big one and then one that drills in a little bit more outside of, you know, little bit more outside of, you know, little bit more outside of, you know, the teamwork aspect, the EQ. Um, one of the teamwork aspect, the EQ. Um, one of the teamwork aspect, the EQ. Um, one of the big things I learned at Intel was the big things I learned at Intel was the big things I learned at Intel was that as Peter Ducker says, culture eats that as Peter Ducker says, culture eats that as Peter Ducker says, culture eats strategy for breakfast. And, you know, I strategy for breakfast. And, you know, I strategy for breakfast. And, you know, I think I think sometimes as as leaders, think I think sometimes as as leaders, think I think sometimes as as leaders, especially in the church, and and I hear especially in the church, and and I hear especially in the church, and and I hear it a lot right now, we get so consumed it a lot right now, we get so consumed it a lot right now, we get so consumed with like, do I have the right strategy?

with like, do I have the right strategy? with like, do I have the right strategy? Do I have the right strategy? you know, Do I have the right strategy? you know, Do I have the right strategy? you know, we're always looking for the the magic we're always looking for the the magic we're always looking for the the magic bullet strategy that's going to allow us bullet strategy that's going to allow us bullet strategy that's going to allow us to like, you know, take ground or break to like, you know, take ground or break to like, you know, take ground or break through a barrier or something. And through a barrier or something. And through a barrier or something. And listen, strategy is important. Yes, listen, strategy is important. Yes, listen, strategy is important. Yes, strategy is crazy important that you strategy is crazy important that you strategy is crazy important that you have a strategy as a church to how to, have a strategy as a church to how to, have a strategy as a church to how to, you know, how you're going to go about you know, how you're going to go about you know, how you're going to go about accomplishing the vision and mission accomplishing the vision and mission accomplishing the vision and mission God's given you. But I don't think we're God's given you. But I don't think we're God's given you. But I don't think we're talking enough about culture talking enough about culture talking enough about culture and and until I learned, you know, and and until I learned, you know, and and until I learned, you know, there's a very strong culture there. there's a very strong culture there. there's a very strong culture there. When I was there at the time, I learned When I was there at the time, I learned When I was there at the time, I learned that the culture is what allows you to that the culture is what allows you to that the culture is what allows you to actually win over time more than even actually win over time more than even actually win over time more than even the strategies you have. What was the the strategies you have. What was the the strategies you have. What was the culture at Intel like? What made what culture at Intel like? What made what culture at Intel like? What made what did you notice? Very much, you know, not did you notice? Very much, you know, not did you notice? Very much, you know, not um very much not hierarchical, very much um very much not hierarchical, very much um very much not hierarchical, very much um not bureaucratic at the time. It was um not bureaucratic at the time. It was um not bureaucratic at the time. It was very much that, hey, you're going to be very much that, hey, you're going to be very much that, hey, you're going to be rewarded based on your results, not how rewarded based on your results, not how rewarded based on your results, not how long you've been there, not where you, long you've been there, not where you, long you've been there, not where you, you know, where you existed on on the you know, where you existed on on the you know, where you existed on on the org chart. It was very much, let's let org chart. It was very much, let's let org chart. It was very much, let's let the best idea win. Mhm. Mhm. Um, and the best idea win. Mhm. Mhm. Um, and the best idea win. Mhm. Mhm. Um, and that's, you know, my even my mantra that's, you know, my even my mantra that's, you know, my even my mantra today. I'm like, hey, when I get around today. I'm like, hey, when I get around today. I'm like, hey, when I get around a table with leaders, guys, I don't want a table with leaders, guys, I don't want a table with leaders, guys, I don't want it to be my idea. Let's let the best it to be my idea. Let's let the best it to be my idea. Let's let the best idea win. That's that's that's the idea win. That's that's that's the idea win. That's that's that's the culture. This is a cultural dynamic, culture. This is a cultural dynamic, culture. This is a cultural dynamic, though, right? Now, a different culture though, right? Now, a different culture though, right? Now, a different culture would be like, "No, the guy at the top would be like, "No, the guy at the top would be like, "No, the guy at the top makes the call and you you fall in line, makes the call and you you fall in line, makes the call and you you fall in line, right?" That's a lot of church culture right?" That's a lot of church culture right?" That's a lot of church culture to let's do that. No, we gota we got to to let's do that. No, we gota we got to to let's do that. No, we gota we got to let the best idea win. So, really strong let the best idea win. So, really strong let the best idea win. So, really strong culture. And what we, you know, what

culture. And what we, you know, what culture. And what we, you know, what what I've seen in church, especially as what I've seen in church, especially as what I've seen in church, especially as you grow, you grow, you grow, um, is that you better make sure that um, is that you better make sure that um, is that you better make sure that you're investing a disproportionate you're investing a disproportionate you're investing a disproportionate amount of your energy and time in amount of your energy and time in amount of your energy and time in building your c your culture and the building your c your culture and the building your c your culture and the culture you want, not just into culture you want, not just into culture you want, not just into strategy, um, you know, programs, what strategy, um, you know, programs, what strategy, um, you know, programs, what you're doing. Culture matters more than you're doing. Culture matters more than you're doing. Culture matters more than we could ever imagine. we could ever imagine. we could ever imagine. what cultural what cultural what cultural uh grounding are you attempting to do or uh grounding are you attempting to do or uh grounding are you attempting to do or do you value here at CCV? Yeah, so we do you value here at CCV? Yeah, so we do you value here at CCV? Yeah, so we have, you know, we have a set of have, you know, we have a set of have, you know, we have a set of obviously values. Um, and then we have a obviously values. Um, and then we have a obviously values. Um, and then we have a set of what we'd call fundamentals that set of what we'd call fundamentals that set of what we'd call fundamentals that are how those values play out in action. are how those values play out in action. are how those values play out in action. Um, and what I would say is, man, as as Um, and what I would say is, man, as as Um, and what I would say is, man, as as we've grown, we we've spent more time we've grown, we we've spent more time we've grown, we we've spent more time investing in those and driving those investing in those and driving those investing in those and driving those into the organization than we ever have into the organization than we ever have into the organization than we ever have as we've grown. And the reason why is as we've grown. And the reason why is as we've grown. And the reason why is very, you know, I'll get to some of very, you know, I'll get to some of very, you know, I'll get to some of those some of those cultural values, but those some of those cultural values, but those some of those cultural values, but the reason why I think you have to do the reason why I think you have to do the reason why I think you have to do that is because as you grow, I'll just that is because as you grow, I'll just that is because as you grow, I'll just use myself an example. Um, I'm in less use myself an example. Um, I'm in less use myself an example. Um, I'm in less meetings where decisions are being made meetings where decisions are being made meetings where decisions are being made than I ever have been. I make fewer than I ever have been. I make fewer than I ever have been. I make fewer decisions now than than I ever have. I I decisions now than than I ever have. I I decisions now than than I ever have. I I know I know less about what's going on know I know less about what's going on know I know less about what's going on sometimes at the church than I ever sometimes at the church than I ever sometimes at the church than I ever have. And you're like thinking like is have. And you're like thinking like is have. And you're like thinking like is that you know someone's thinking on the that you know someone's thinking on the that you know someone's thinking on the someone's listening going like is that someone's listening going like is that someone's listening going like is that normal for a leader? Is that normal?

normal for a leader? Is that normal? normal for a leader? Is that normal? Especially on your growth career, right? Especially on your growth career, right? Especially on your growth career, right? As growth is that normal like shouldn't As growth is that normal like shouldn't As growth is that normal like shouldn't you know everything going on? Shouldn't you know everything going on? Shouldn't you know everything going on? Shouldn't you be in every decision? Like no. The you be in every decision? Like no. The you be in every decision? Like no. The answer is as you grow, it's not only answer is as you grow, it's not only answer is as you grow, it's not only that's that's not only normal, it's that's that's not only normal, it's that's that's not only normal, it's required. Yeah. Leaders who need to know required. Yeah. Leaders who need to know required. Yeah. Leaders who need to know won't grow. That's right. And to to go won't grow. That's right. And to to go won't grow. That's right. And to to go up, you have to give up and you're up, you have to give up and you're up, you have to give up and you're right. So to go up, you're constantly right. So to go up, you're constantly right. So to go up, you're constantly giving up something and you're giving up something and you're giving up something and you're empowering and delegating other people. empowering and delegating other people. empowering and delegating other people. So So someone's listening going like, So So someone's listening going like, So So someone's listening going like, well, if that happens and how do we make well, if that happens and how do we make well, if that happens and how do we make sure this isn't a dumpster fire, right? sure this isn't a dumpster fire, right? sure this isn't a dumpster fire, right? How do we make sure this doesn't fall How do we make sure this doesn't fall How do we make sure this doesn't fall apart then? So that's culture. That's apart then? So that's culture. That's apart then? So that's culture. That's culture. Culture drives who you want to culture. Culture drives who you want to culture. Culture drives who you want to be down an in organization. So that if be down an in organization. So that if be down an in organization. So that if you have if you have if you any leader you have if you have if you any leader you have if you have if you any leader listening right now, if you have listening right now, if you have listening right now, if you have confidence that the leaders underneath confidence that the leaders underneath confidence that the leaders underneath you, we're going to lead under a similar you, we're going to lead under a similar you, we're going to lead under a similar set of values that you have, you would set of values that you have, you would set of values that you have, you would be so much more apt to delegate and be so much more apt to delegate and be so much more apt to delegate and empower. Right. You would. Yeah. And empower. Right. You would. Yeah. And empower. Right. You would. Yeah. And this is why then you don't worry, you this is why then you don't worry, you this is why then you don't worry, you sleep at night. That's right. And so sleep at night. That's right. And so sleep at night. That's right. And so this is where, you know, we're trying to this is where, you know, we're trying to this is where, you know, we're trying to drive those values and and fundamentals drive those values and and fundamentals drive those values and and fundamentals into organization more than ever. So into organization more than ever. So into organization more than ever. So I'll give you one example of what we do.

I'll give you one example of what we do. I'll give you one example of what we do. We took this from Ritz Carlton. Um we We took this from Ritz Carlton. Um we We took this from Ritz Carlton. Um we have a set of our core values um which have a set of our core values um which have a set of our core values um which you know a lot of people have up on the you know a lot of people have up on the you know a lot of people have up on the walls. That's that's fine. But how do walls. That's that's fine. But how do walls. That's that's fine. But how do you how do you you not just take values you how do you you not just take values you how do you you not just take values that are set from the top, but how do that are set from the top, but how do that are set from the top, but how do you build them from the bottom up? you build them from the bottom up? you build them from the bottom up? That's when culture takes root. And so That's when culture takes root. And so That's when culture takes root. And so every Monday morning, um, one one of the every Monday morning, um, one one of the every Monday morning, um, one one of the leaders on our staff, it's not it's not leaders on our staff, it's not it's not leaders on our staff, it's not it's not me, it's not even our always our top me, it's not even our always our top me, it's not even our always our top level leaders, we take one of our values level leaders, we take one of our values level leaders, we take one of our values and fundamentals, it's about a 3minute and fundamentals, it's about a 3minute and fundamentals, it's about a 3minute video that's reinforcing them. It gets video that's reinforcing them. It gets video that's reinforcing them. It gets sent to the whole entire organization sent to the whole entire organization sent to the whole entire organization and the goal of every leader that week and the goal of every leader that week and the goal of every leader that week is to take that fundamental and in their is to take that fundamental and in their is to take that fundamental and in their team meeting that week, they lead with team meeting that week, they lead with team meeting that week, they lead with it. Ris Carlton does this. they they it. Ris Carlton does this. they they it. Ris Carlton does this. they they they have their value 26 or whatever it they have their value 26 or whatever it they have their value 26 or whatever it is and they and they'll they'll every is and they and they'll they'll every is and they and they'll they'll every week they'll do that before they start week they'll do that before they start week they'll do that before they start their week. They get the whole team their week. They get the whole team their week. They get the whole team together, drive that in. So, we're together, drive that in. So, we're together, drive that in. So, we're trying to do the same thing just to say trying to do the same thing just to say trying to do the same thing just to say how do we drive the culture um that we how do we drive the culture um that we how do we drive the culture um that we want and keep reinforcing it cuz culture want and keep reinforcing it cuz culture want and keep reinforcing it cuz culture leaks. Yes. I mean, culture leaks faster leaks. Yes. I mean, culture leaks faster leaks. Yes. I mean, culture leaks faster than you could ever imagine.

than you could ever imagine. than you could ever imagine. We uh we were here Saturday and we you We uh we were here Saturday and we you We uh we were here Saturday and we you were kind enough to have Tony and I for were kind enough to have Tony and I for were kind enough to have Tony and I for dinner and you asked us for feedback and dinner and you asked us for feedback and dinner and you asked us for feedback and you and Jamie have a word for the year you and Jamie have a word for the year you and Jamie have a word for the year that you're really hoping you inculcate that you're really hoping you inculcate that you're really hoping you inculcate as a value but you didn't tell us what as a value but you didn't tell us what as a value but you didn't tell us what the word is. Uh, and I gave you all the word is. Uh, and I gave you all the word is. Uh, and I gave you all kinds of feedback and I said, "This is a kinds of feedback and I said, "This is a kinds of feedback and I said, "This is a very like grounded, downto- earthth very like grounded, downto- earthth very like grounded, downto- earthth church, one of the largest in the church, one of the largest in the church, one of the largest in the country." But when we got there, you country." But when we got there, you country." But when we got there, you know, you knew we were coming and your know, you knew we were coming and your know, you knew we were coming and your assistant Sheree met us. Um, but there assistant Sheree met us. Um, but there assistant Sheree met us. Um, but there was no like VIP line. Um, Paige offered was no like VIP line. Um, Paige offered was no like VIP line. Um, Paige offered to get us coffee. Uh, but there was a to get us coffee. Uh, but there was a to get us coffee. Uh, but there was a line for coffee and we weren't cutting line for coffee and we weren't cutting line for coffee and we weren't cutting lines, so she went back later, stood in lines, so she went back later, stood in lines, so she went back later, stood in line with everybody else. And it was it line with everybody else. And it was it line with everybody else. And it was it was very down to earth and I love that. was very down to earth and I love that. was very down to earth and I love that. I really really love that. Is that I really really love that. Is that I really really love that. Is that something you're shooting for? something you're shooting for? something you're shooting for? Absolutely. So, one of the things we say Absolutely. So, one of the things we say Absolutely. So, one of the things we say around here a lot is leaders are the around here a lot is leaders are the around here a lot is leaders are the example, not the exception. example, not the exception. example, not the exception. And so, I don't care where you are. It And so, I don't care where you are. It And so, I don't care where you are. It doesn't matter if it's me, anybody else.

doesn't matter if it's me, anybody else. doesn't matter if it's me, anybody else. We're we're designed to be the example, We're we're designed to be the example, We're we're designed to be the example, not the exception. not the exception. not the exception. Um, so, you know, when we look at our Um, so, you know, when we look at our Um, so, you know, when we look at our values, we want to have, you know, this values, we want to have, you know, this values, we want to have, you know, this commitment to excellence in everything commitment to excellence in everything commitment to excellence in everything we do. We're always going to have heart we do. We're always going to have heart we do. We're always going to have heart for evangelism. We're going to have for evangelism. We're going to have for evangelism. We're going to have integrity. We have radical generosity. integrity. We have radical generosity. integrity. We have radical generosity. You know, we're we're we have already You know, we're we're we have already You know, we're we're we have already talked about this. We're huge on talked about this. We're huge on talked about this. We're huge on teamwork. But as we as we unear some of teamwork. But as we as we unear some of teamwork. But as we as we unear some of those things and say, "Okay, what does those things and say, "Okay, what does those things and say, "Okay, what does that really look like played out on a that really look like played out on a that really look like played out on a day-to-day basis, that's what we just day-to-day basis, that's what we just day-to-day basis, that's what we just talk about a lot." And we talk a lot talk about a lot." And we talk a lot talk about a lot." And we talk a lot about, you know, our word for the year about, you know, our word for the year about, you know, our word for the year this year is the word posture. And we this year is the word posture. And we this year is the word posture. And we just felt like as we've as we've grown, just felt like as we've as we've grown, just felt like as we've as we've grown, we want to keep a deep posture of we want to keep a deep posture of we want to keep a deep posture of humility, dependence on God, and and humility, dependence on God, and and humility, dependence on God, and and teamwork. It shows. Well, we're try, you teamwork. It shows. Well, we're try, you teamwork. It shows. Well, we're try, you know, just trying. And I give a lot of know, just trying. And I give a lot of know, just trying. And I give a lot of credit to, you know, that's that's a lot credit to, you know, that's that's a lot credit to, you know, that's that's a lot of credit to a great team and a lot of of credit to a great team and a lot of of credit to a great team and a lot of leaders that are out out modeling that. leaders that are out out modeling that. leaders that are out out modeling that. Why did you pick that? Why is that so Why did you pick that? Why is that so Why did you pick that? Why is that so important? It's come up as a recurring important? It's come up as a recurring important? It's come up as a recurring theme. Yeah, cuz it scares me to death theme. Yeah, cuz it scares me to death theme. Yeah, cuz it scares me to death um to lose it.

um to lose it. um to lose it. It it it um It it it um It it it um I I probably get chills and and am so I I probably get chills and and am so I I probably get chills and and am so fearful that as we as we um as we as we fearful that as we as we um as we as we fearful that as we as we um as we as we grow, you know, as our as our influence grow, you know, as our as our influence grow, you know, as our as our influence grows that somehow we lose the kind of grows that somehow we lose the kind of grows that somehow we lose the kind of posture that we need for God to continue posture that we need for God to continue posture that we need for God to continue to bless our church. Um it really really to bless our church. Um it really really to bless our church. Um it really really work. It it it it keeps me up. Um, I work. It it it it keeps me up. Um, I work. It it it it keeps me up. Um, I know it can I know it can happen to me. know it can I know it can happen to me. know it can I know it can happen to me. I mean, let's ultimately personal. I I mean, let's ultimately personal. I I mean, let's ultimately personal. I know that can happen to me. Um, and as I know that can happen to me. Um, and as I know that can happen to me. Um, and as I as I watch I just think that when when as I watch I just think that when when as I watch I just think that when when we read scripture and we look at leaders we read scripture and we look at leaders we read scripture and we look at leaders in scripture, man, as you go throughout in scripture, man, as you go throughout in scripture, man, as you go throughout your leadership journey, that risk of your leadership journey, that risk of your leadership journey, that risk of you becoming prideful and thinking it's you becoming prideful and thinking it's you becoming prideful and thinking it's about you, it doesn't go away. It only about you, it doesn't go away. It only about you, it doesn't go away. It only grows. Yeah. grows. Yeah. grows. Yeah. No, I mean, it is a creep. It's No, I mean, it is a creep. It's No, I mean, it is a creep. It's something I'm dealing with my own life something I'm dealing with my own life something I'm dealing with my own life right now. you know, my counselor sort right now. you know, my counselor sort right now. you know, my counselor sort of identified it. He's like, "You got to of identified it. He's like, "You got to of identified it. He's like, "You got to watch that. It It creeps." Um, there's watch that. It It creeps." Um, there's watch that. It It creeps." Um, there's another, you know, you have a green another, you know, you have a green another, you know, you have a green room. You and your team invited us to room. You and your team invited us to room. You and your team invited us to the service. So, you had a 4:00 Saturday the service. So, you had a 4:00 Saturday the service. So, you had a 4:00 Saturday and then a 5:30. Is that right? Yeah.

and then a 5:30. Is that right? Yeah. and then a 5:30. Is that right? Yeah. And you do a debrief between. So, the And you do a debrief between. So, the And you do a debrief between. So, the only way you use your green room is you only way you use your green room is you only way you use your green room is you have an a team that meets you and says, have an a team that meets you and says, have an a team that meets you and says, "Here's what worked, here's what didn't "Here's what worked, here's what didn't "Here's what worked, here's what didn't work." So, it's a a message review of work." So, it's a a message review of work." So, it's a a message review of the first message and you just sat there the first message and you just sat there the first message and you just sat there and took notes. Yeah. You didn't and took notes. Yeah. You didn't and took notes. Yeah. You didn't disagree. You didn't push back. It was disagree. You didn't push back. It was disagree. You didn't push back. It was like, "Thank you." But you also after like, "Thank you." But you also after like, "Thank you." But you also after the service make it a point not to be in the service make it a point not to be in the service make it a point not to be in the green room. Is that right? Right. the green room. Is that right? Right. the green room. Is that right? Right. Yeah. Tell us about that. Yeah. Well, Yeah. Tell us about that. Yeah. Well, Yeah. Tell us about that. Yeah. Well, you know, the the the feedback session you know, the the the feedback session you know, the the the feedback session we do after the first service I preach we do after the first service I preach we do after the first service I preach um I value so much because everything um I value so much because everything um I value so much because everything we're doing around here is about the we're doing around here is about the we're doing around here is about the team. It's all about the team. When I team. It's all about the team. When I team. It's all about the team. When I put together a message, it's already put together a message, it's already put together a message, it's already very much team oriented where I'm very much team oriented where I'm very much team oriented where I'm writing the majority of it, but I'm writing the majority of it, but I'm writing the majority of it, but I'm sending that to a group of people to sending that to a group of people to sending that to a group of people to really like just so they've already really like just so they've already really like just so they've already given you feedback. Pick it apart. Tell given you feedback. Pick it apart. Tell given you feedback. Pick it apart. Tell me and and there's never been a message me and and there's never been a message me and and there's never been a message I've written that hasn't gotten better, I've written that hasn't gotten better, I've written that hasn't gotten better, not one because of that feedback. But not one because of that feedback. But not one because of that feedback. But then once you're delivering the message, then once you're delivering the message, then once you're delivering the message, now you're delivering it live and you now you're delivering it live and you now you're delivering it live and you want to know how is it coming across?

want to know how is it coming across? want to know how is it coming across? And I know I put it on paper and this is And I know I put it on paper and this is And I know I put it on paper and this is like my thoughts, but how's it coming like my thoughts, but how's it coming like my thoughts, but how's it coming across to people? So, we sat down across to people? So, we sat down across to people? So, we sat down afterwards and man, they just I I afterwards and man, they just I I afterwards and man, they just I I invite, you know, this crazy level of invite, you know, this crazy level of invite, you know, this crazy level of feedback. Just pick it apart. Tell me feedback. Just pick it apart. Tell me feedback. Just pick it apart. Tell me what what didn't go well. And I am I'm what what didn't go well. And I am I'm what what didn't go well. And I am I'm taking notes like crazy cuz I want that taking notes like crazy cuz I want that taking notes like crazy cuz I want that feedback. I crave it. We have a high feedback. I crave it. We have a high feedback. I crave it. We have a high feedback culture that we want everybody feedback culture that we want everybody feedback culture that we want everybody to have cuz that's again that's how it's to have cuz that's again that's how it's to have cuz that's again that's how it's the only way you get better. And then the only way you get better. And then the only way you get better. And then yeah, once once I get that feedback, I yeah, once once I get that feedback, I yeah, once once I get that feedback, I don't want to stay in a green room. I don't want to stay in a green room. I don't want to stay in a green room. I want to get out and be around people want to get out and be around people want to get out and be around people because I want to not only hear what because I want to not only hear what because I want to not only hear what God's doing in their life and God's doing in their life and God's doing in their life and potentially how it impacted them, um, potentially how it impacted them, um, potentially how it impacted them, um, but, you know, just that that's but, you know, just that that's but, you know, just that that's life-giving to me to not sit back. Um, I life-giving to me to not sit back. Um, I life-giving to me to not sit back. Um, I want to be out with people. I mean, want to be out with people. I mean, want to be out with people. I mean, that's what we're about as a church. And that's what we're about as a church. And that's what we're about as a church. And then I don't I don't teach live on then I don't I don't teach live on then I don't I don't teach live on Sundays right now. That that allows me Sundays right now. That that allows me Sundays right now. That that allows me to to travel around to some of our to to travel around to some of our to to travel around to some of our different campuses and be with people different campuses and be with people different campuses and be with people there as well, too. Not ever to get on there as well, too. Not ever to get on there as well, too. Not ever to get on stage, you know. I don't I don't I don't stage, you know. I don't I don't I don't stage, you know. I don't I don't I don't like getting on stage. It's really just like getting on stage. It's really just like getting on stage. It's really just to be with people and then to thank our to be with people and then to thank our to be with people and then to thank our volunteers. So, you're in the lobby.

volunteers. So, you're in the lobby. volunteers. So, you're in the lobby. You're you're like just walking around You're you're like just walking around You're you're like just walking around thanking people in the lobby or in some thanking people in the lobby or in some thanking people in the lobby or in some of our volunteer uh in in some of our of our volunteer uh in in some of our of our volunteer uh in in some of our like kids in other rooms just honestly like kids in other rooms just honestly like kids in other rooms just honestly thanking volunteers cuz they're the thanking volunteers cuz they're the thanking volunteers cuz they're the heartbeat of our church. Yeah. heartbeat of our church. Yeah. heartbeat of our church. Yeah. So there are pastors who will solicit So there are pastors who will solicit So there are pastors who will solicit feedback for their sermon, but as a feedback for their sermon, but as a feedback for their sermon, but as a friend of mine says, his wife will often friend of mine says, his wife will often friend of mine says, his wife will often say, "Are you looking for feedback or say, "Are you looking for feedback or say, "Are you looking for feedback or you're looking for affirmation?" I think you're looking for affirmation?" I think you're looking for affirmation?" I think I think that's actually good. Yeah, it's I think that's actually good. Yeah, it's I think that's actually good. Yeah, it's a great line. That was John Auff. I a great line. That was John Auff. I a great line. That was John Auff. I think he said that publicly. Uh, you think he said that publicly. Uh, you think he said that publicly. Uh, you know, Jenny Jenny just has a way of of know, Jenny Jenny just has a way of of know, Jenny Jenny just has a way of of nailing it. But it's a great question nailing it. But it's a great question nailing it. But it's a great question because sometimes I think I look for because sometimes I think I look for because sometimes I think I look for feedback. What I'm looking for is feedback. What I'm looking for is feedback. What I'm looking for is affirmation. affirmation. affirmation. If you have a high feedback culture, how If you have a high feedback culture, how If you have a high feedback culture, how do you let the staff know, hey, no, I'm do you let the staff know, hey, no, I'm do you let the staff know, hey, no, I'm really looking for feedback here, not really looking for feedback here, not really looking for feedback here, not affirmation. Yeah. I think one of the affirmation. Yeah. I think one of the affirmation. Yeah. I think one of the one of the key ways you you do that is one of the key ways you you do that is one of the key ways you you do that is when they give you hard feedback. Mhm. when they give you hard feedback. Mhm. when they give you hard feedback. Mhm. You you affirm that. You say, "Thank you You you affirm that. You say, "Thank you You you affirm that. You say, "Thank you so much. That's what I'm looking for. so much. That's what I'm looking for. so much. That's what I'm looking for. Don't ever hold back. Don't ever. So, Don't ever hold back. Don't ever. So, Don't ever hold back. Don't ever. So, you're valuing even when I give you the you're valuing even when I give you the you're valuing even when I give you the really hard feedback that they're that really hard feedback that they're that really hard feedback that they're that they're thinking in their mind like if I they're thinking in their mind like if I they're thinking in their mind like if I say this, am I going to like somehow, say this, am I going to like somehow, say this, am I going to like somehow, you know, be looked down or get in you know, be looked down or get in you know, be looked down or get in trouble? So, you're you're you're really trouble? So, you're you're you're really trouble? So, you're you're you're really trying to to give them the feedback that trying to to give them the feedback that trying to to give them the feedback that way. Somebody had to be first though.

way. Somebody had to be first though. way. Somebody had to be first though. Yeah. Right. Like if if cuz you weren't Yeah. Right. Like if if cuz you weren't Yeah. Right. Like if if cuz you weren't the founding pastor. You didn't set this the founding pastor. You didn't set this the founding pastor. You didn't set this up. I don't know what the culture was up. I don't know what the culture was up. I don't know what the culture was like beforehand, but a lot of people like beforehand, but a lot of people like beforehand, but a lot of people watching this, they're younger leaders watching this, they're younger leaders watching this, they're younger leaders listening. They're afraid if I do that listening. They're afraid if I do that listening. They're afraid if I do that to my boss, you know, I'm going to get to my boss, you know, I'm going to get to my boss, you know, I'm going to get fired. I'm going to get killed. Yeah. fired. I'm going to get killed. Yeah. fired. I'm going to get killed. Yeah. So, So, So, how did you learn to because I found I how did you learn to because I found I how did you learn to because I found I try to do active feedback, but my try to do active feedback, but my try to do active feedback, but my longtime assistant Sarah uh told me at longtime assistant Sarah uh told me at longtime assistant Sarah uh told me at one point she said I had to ask her like one point she said I had to ask her like one point she said I had to ask her like 10 times. Yes. Before she was like, "Oh, 10 times. Yes. Before she was like, "Oh, 10 times. Yes. Before she was like, "Oh, you're serious? Like, you really want to you're serious? Like, you really want to you're serious? Like, you really want to know?" Yep. Our our founding pastor, know?" Yep. Our our founding pastor, know?" Yep. Our our founding pastor, Don, he was incredible at this. Really? Don, he was incredible at this. Really? Don, he was incredible at this. Really? He really was. I mean, I I I did learn a He really was. I mean, I I I did learn a He really was. I mean, I I I did learn a lot from from watching him. He was lot from from watching him. He was lot from from watching him. He was constantly asking for for feedback and constantly asking for for feedback and constantly asking for for feedback and really modeled um you know, give me give really modeled um you know, give me give really modeled um you know, give me give me the hard feedback. Don't don't give me the hard feedback. Don't don't give me the hard feedback. Don't don't give me the easy stuff. And you know, we can me the easy stuff. And you know, we can me the easy stuff. And you know, we can say hard feedback in a really kind way. say hard feedback in a really kind way. say hard feedback in a really kind way. And I think we you know, we have a And I think we you know, we have a And I think we you know, we have a culture where we can do that, right? Um culture where we can do that, right? Um culture where we can do that, right? Um so you want to say the hard feedback in so you want to say the hard feedback in so you want to say the hard feedback in the right way so it's so it's actually the right way so it's so it's actually the right way so it's so it's actually taken well. So So you had a little bit taken well. So So you had a little bit taken well. So So you had a little bit of a leg up when you came in, but you of a leg up when you came in, but you of a leg up when you came in, but you could change that in a heartbeat. You could change that in a heartbeat. You could change that in a heartbeat. You could just yell at somebody or fire could just yell at somebody or fire could just yell at somebody or fire somebody. It's dead tomorrow. But Intel somebody. It's dead tomorrow. But Intel somebody. It's dead tomorrow. But Intel was a crazy high feedback culture. Okay.

was a crazy high feedback culture. Okay. was a crazy high feedback culture. Okay. I mean, beyond what you could ever I mean, beyond what you could ever I mean, beyond what you could ever imagine, really. So, you can walk into a imagine, really. So, you can walk into a imagine, really. So, you can walk into a vice president or CEO's office and just vice president or CEO's office and just vice president or CEO's office and just tell them what you're thinking. Yeah. tell them what you're thinking. Yeah. tell them what you're thinking. Yeah. You're getting crazy high levels of You're getting crazy high levels of You're getting crazy high levels of feedback and then they're inviting that feedback and then they're inviting that feedback and then they're inviting that to you as well. So, that the the the to you as well. So, that the the the to you as well. So, that the the the culture there was just it's it was one culture there was just it's it was one culture there was just it's it was one of the highest feedback cultures I've of the highest feedback cultures I've of the highest feedback cultures I've ever seen. I'm not sure we're there yet ever seen. I'm not sure we're there yet ever seen. I'm not sure we're there yet to what to that level. Yeah. Well, it's to what to that level. Yeah. Well, it's to what to that level. Yeah. Well, it's like even Netflix more recently, you like even Netflix more recently, you like even Netflix more recently, you know, radical cander. Yes. You want that know, radical cander. Yes. You want that know, radical cander. Yes. You want that kind of radical cander. What how did you kind of radical cander. What how did you kind of radical cander. What how did you make the leap from intel to ministry? make the leap from intel to ministry? make the leap from intel to ministry? You felt a call. Yeah. What what was You felt a call. Yeah. What what was You felt a call. Yeah. What what was that like? I would describe it as like a that like? I would describe it as like a that like? I would describe it as like a Nehemiah moment, you know, where often Nehemiah moment, you know, where often Nehemiah moment, you know, where often times what what breaks your heart times what what breaks your heart times what what breaks your heart becomes your calling, you know. And when becomes your calling, you know. And when becomes your calling, you know. And when I was at Intel, I loved what I was I was at Intel, I loved what I was I was at Intel, I loved what I was doing. I actually could could have seen doing. I actually could could have seen doing. I actually could could have seen myself there for the rest of my life. myself there for the rest of my life. myself there for the rest of my life. That's how much I really enjoyed what I That's how much I really enjoyed what I That's how much I really enjoyed what I was doing. But as I was experiencing was doing. But as I was experiencing was doing. But as I was experiencing Intel and specifically as I was Intel and specifically as I was Intel and specifically as I was experiencing some of the leadership experiencing some of the leadership experiencing some of the leadership development I was getting there, they development I was getting there, they development I was getting there, they sent me back to get, you know, Jamie and sent me back to get, you know, Jamie and sent me back to get, you know, Jamie and I both to get our MBAs. I was going to I both to get our MBAs. I was going to I both to get our MBAs. I was going to these week-long leadership intensives. I these week-long leadership intensives. I these week-long leadership intensives. I was just seeing the leadership and what was just seeing the leadership and what was just seeing the leadership and what I was learning. And then my purview into I was learning. And then my purview into I was learning. And then my purview into the local church at the time and I think the local church at the time and I think the local church at the time and I think churches have come a long way now. I churches have come a long way now. I churches have come a long way now. I just didn't see um some of the the just didn't see um some of the the just didn't see um some of the the leadership very honestly in the local leadership very honestly in the local leadership very honestly in the local church and it broke my heart. It broke church and it broke my heart. It broke church and it broke my heart. It broke my heart because I thought you saw it as my heart because I thought you saw it as my heart because I thought you saw it as a like poorly run organization or a like poorly run organization or a like poorly run organization or mediocre. Yes. Some I here's the way I

mediocre. Yes. Some I here's the way I mediocre. Yes. Some I here's the way I would describe it. thought when the would describe it. thought when the would describe it. thought when the world looks to to you know organizations world looks to to you know organizations world looks to to you know organizations that are just momentum you know um that are just momentum you know um that are just momentum you know um where's amazing leadership where can we where's amazing leadership where can we where's amazing leadership where can we learn from they look to Apple they look learn from they look to Apple they look learn from they look to Apple they look to Google they look even to like things to Google they look even to like things to Google they look even to like things like Chick-fil-A and in my mind I like Chick-fil-A and in my mind I like Chick-fil-A and in my mind I thought to myself thought to myself thought to myself why shouldn't they look at the local why shouldn't they look at the local why shouldn't they look at the local church and so my vision statement I church and so my vision statement I church and so my vision statement I wrote down as my for my life as I felt wrote down as my for my life as I felt wrote down as my for my life as I felt this calling by God to leave and tell this calling by God to leave and tell this calling by God to leave and tell him to spend the rest of my life in the him to spend the rest of my life in the him to spend the rest of my life in the local church and it's still my vision to local church and it's still my vision to local church and it's still my vision to this day is the local church should be this day is the local church should be this day is the local church should be the most well-led organization in the the most well-led organization in the the most well-led organization in the world world world and the reason why I'll go back to and the reason why I'll go back to and the reason why I'll go back to because we have the greatest thing this because we have the greatest thing this because we have the greatest thing this world ever ever needs which is not a world ever ever needs which is not a world ever ever needs which is not a microprocessor it's not a sandwich it's microprocessor it's not a sandwich it's microprocessor it's not a sandwich it's not something else we our product we're not something else we our product we're not something else we our product we're we're offering is is Jesus which can we're offering is is Jesus which can we're offering is is Jesus which can change your life not only today but for change your life not only today but for change your life not only today but for eternity so why shouldn't we be the most eternity so why shouldn't we be the most eternity so why shouldn't we be the most well-led organization of the world and well-led organization of the world and well-led organization of the world and people look at the church as that and people look at the church as that and people look at the church as that and we're not there. So I So and and when I we're not there. So I So and and when I we're not there. So I So and and when I say we, I mean CCV, yeah, we are not say we, I mean CCV, yeah, we are not say we, I mean CCV, yeah, we are not there. Not even I don't even think we're there. Not even I don't even think we're there. Not even I don't even think we're even close. But that's the goal is to even close. But that's the goal is to even close. But that's the goal is to continue to be so let's let's be so well continue to be so let's let's be so well continue to be so let's let's be so well led by biblical principles that man led by biblical principles that man led by biblical principles that man people say. So that that that's what people say. So that that that's what people say. So that that that's what broke my heart initially. And so I you broke my heart initially. And so I you broke my heart initially. And so I you know got to this place even with Jamie know got to this place even with Jamie know got to this place even with Jamie where I said I just knew I'd be

where I said I just knew I'd be where I said I just knew I'd be disobedient if I didn't make the leap. disobedient if I didn't make the leap. disobedient if I didn't make the leap. And so, um, you know, I made the leap And so, um, you know, I made the leap And so, um, you know, I made the leap and I've I've I've never looked back. and I've I've I've never looked back. and I've I've I've never looked back. Yeah. Was the first assignment here at Yeah. Was the first assignment here at Yeah. Was the first assignment here at CCV? It was. Yeah. And you became CCV? It was. Yeah. And you became CCV? It was. Yeah. And you became executive pastor. I did. Yeah. So, you executive pastor. I did. Yeah. So, you executive pastor. I did. Yeah. So, you know, when when I was looking at where I know, when when I was looking at where I know, when when I was looking at where I was, where I was going to go into local was, where I was going to go into local was, where I was going to go into local church, I had a couple different church, I had a couple different church, I had a couple different options. Um, CCV at the time, we we options. Um, CCV at the time, we we options. Um, CCV at the time, we we weren't we were living somewhere else, weren't we were living somewhere else, weren't we were living somewhere else, so we weren't a part of this. Were you so we weren't a part of this. Were you so we weren't a part of this. Were you Bay Area? Uh, no. We were here in the Bay Area? Uh, no. We were here in the Bay Area? Uh, no. We were here in the valley, but the valley is really spread valley, but the valley is really spread valley, but the valley is really spread out. So we were in the east east side of out. So we were in the east east side of out. So we were in the east east side of the valley and CCB was at the time only the valley and CCB was at the time only the valley and CCB was at the time only in the west side. And so when you know in the west side. And so when you know in the west side. And so when you know Don sat down with me our founding pastor Don sat down with me our founding pastor Don sat down with me our founding pastor and said hey I think you should come be and said hey I think you should come be and said hey I think you should come be our first executive pastor. My initial our first executive pastor. My initial our first executive pastor. My initial answer to him is I said no I wouldn't do answer to him is I said no I wouldn't do answer to him is I said no I wouldn't do that. Um and the reason why is because that. Um and the reason why is because that. Um and the reason why is because what I knew about leadership is you know what I knew about leadership is you know what I knew about leadership is you know the church had never had an executive the church had never had an executive the church had never had an executive pastor right before. And you know, in my pastor right before. And you know, in my pastor right before. And you know, in my leadership mind, I thought, hey, bring leadership mind, I thought, hey, bring leadership mind, I thought, hey, bring in someone from the outside inside to be in someone from the outside inside to be in someone from the outside inside to be the first executive pastor, um maybe not the first executive pastor, um maybe not the first executive pastor, um maybe not the the wisest move. And he just kept the the wisest move. And he just kept the the wisest move. And he just kept saying, "Well, just just pray about it.

saying, "Well, just just pray about it. saying, "Well, just just pray about it. Just pray about it." And uh so I I told Just pray about it." And uh so I I told Just pray about it." And uh so I I told him kind of on a whim. I just said, him kind of on a whim. I just said, him kind of on a whim. I just said, "Hey, the only way I'll pray about it is "Hey, the only way I'll pray about it is "Hey, the only way I'll pray about it is if you agreed that if I did take that if you agreed that if I did take that if you agreed that if I did take that position that I wouldn't assume the position that I wouldn't assume the position that I wouldn't assume the position for 6 months, but you give me 6 position for 6 months, but you give me 6 position for 6 months, but you give me 6 months to just go work in every area of months to just go work in every area of months to just go work in every area of ministry and meet with every person on ministry and meet with every person on ministry and meet with every person on staff and just go serve in those areas staff and just go serve in those areas staff and just go serve in those areas before I ever assume that role." And he before I ever assume that role." And he before I ever assume that role." And he was kind of like, "Sure, whatever. You was kind of like, "Sure, whatever. You was kind of like, "Sure, whatever. You know, you you can you can do that. I know, you you can you can do that. I know, you you can you can do that. I don't I don't care. Just pray about And don't I don't care. Just pray about And don't I don't care. Just pray about And so as I prayed about it more and more, so as I prayed about it more and more, so as I prayed about it more and more, God just kept kind of leading us more God just kept kind of leading us more God just kept kind of leading us more and more here to CCV. And so that's and more here to CCV. And so that's and more here to CCV. And so that's that's what I did when I came in. I was that's what I did when I came in. I was that's what I did when I came in. I was the first ex the church's first the first ex the church's first the first ex the church's first executive pastor, but I didn't assume executive pastor, but I didn't assume executive pastor, but I didn't assume the role right away. I took some months. the role right away. I took some months. the role right away. I took some months. So worked in kids ministry, guest So worked in kids ministry, guest So worked in kids ministry, guest services, student ministry, uh services, student ministry, uh services, student ministry, uh housekeeping, operations. I'm I'm fixing housekeeping, operations. I'm I'm fixing housekeeping, operations. I'm I'm fixing I'm fixing the screws on the door in the I'm fixing the screws on the door in the I'm fixing the screws on the door in the auditorium with one of our operations auditorium with one of our operations auditorium with one of our operations guys. Right. um in our student ministry guys. Right. um in our student ministry guys. Right. um in our student ministry like just learning and then meeting with like just learning and then meeting with like just learning and then meeting with I met with every single staff member. Uh I met with every single staff member. Uh I met with every single staff member. Uh we had about How many staff did you I we had about How many staff did you I we had about How many staff did you I think we had around maybe 75 or 80 staff think we had around maybe 75 or 80 staff think we had around maybe 75 or 80 staff at the time. Um what made you do that?

at the time. Um what made you do that? at the time. Um what made you do that? It's just it's just my leadership that's It's just it's just my leadership that's It's just it's just my leadership that's my leadership uh my leadership uh my leadership uh intuition or style would be intuition or style would be intuition or style would be not positional not to be a positional not positional not to be a positional not positional not to be a positional leader. So not to step in and assume, leader. So not to step in and assume, leader. So not to step in and assume, hey, I'm the executive pastor. I've got hey, I'm the executive pastor. I've got hey, I'm the executive pastor. I've got all this experience. Everybody gather all this experience. Everybody gather all this experience. Everybody gather around like, listen to me. I mean, that around like, listen to me. I mean, that around like, listen to me. I mean, that doesn't work. That leadership style does doesn't work. That leadership style does doesn't work. That leadership style does not work. And that's how so many of us not work. And that's how so many of us not work. And that's how so many of us have almost like been taught or somehow have almost like been taught or somehow have almost like been taught or somehow viewed, especially in the church, viewed, especially in the church, viewed, especially in the church, viewed. That's how you lead. You just viewed. That's how you lead. You just viewed. That's how you lead. You just you come down from the mountain and you you come down from the mountain and you you come down from the mountain and you say, "This is what God told me." And say, "This is what God told me." And say, "This is what God told me." And like, "Everybody get in line. Let's go." like, "Everybody get in line. Let's go." like, "Everybody get in line. Let's go." Yeah. You know, and like no, no, we we Yeah. You know, and like no, no, we we Yeah. You know, and like no, no, we we need to bring people along. How did you need to bring people along. How did you need to bring people along. How did you know it didn't work? I'd just seen it. know it didn't work? I'd just seen it. know it didn't work? I'd just seen it. I'd seen it at Intel. When I was at I'd seen it at Intel. When I was at I'd seen it at Intel. When I was at Intel, that's all that experience. I saw Intel, that's all that experience. I saw Intel, that's all that experience. I saw some of the most brilliant some of the most brilliant some of the most brilliant I'm talking I'm talking I'm talking Mensa level smart people at Intel fail Mensa level smart people at Intel fail Mensa level smart people at Intel fail miserably.

miserably. miserably. And it was not because they didn't have And it was not because they didn't have And it was not because they didn't have the acumen or the smarts. it's because the acumen or the smarts. it's because the acumen or the smarts. it's because they didn't have the leadership, they didn't have the leadership, they didn't have the leadership, emotional intelligence, everything that emotional intelligence, everything that emotional intelligence, everything that goes into what makes a great leader. And goes into what makes a great leader. And goes into what makes a great leader. And so that was just kind of I I saw it like so that was just kind of I I saw it like so that was just kind of I I saw it like the hard way. I just watched it unfold. the hard way. I just watched it unfold. the hard way. I just watched it unfold. And then I saw the opposite. I saw what And then I saw the opposite. I saw what And then I saw the opposite. I saw what happens when you you try to lead really happens when you you try to lead really happens when you you try to lead really well, even when you may not be the most well, even when you may not be the most well, even when you may not be the most talented person in the room. And that talented person in the room. And that talented person in the room. And that just that shaped me deeply um to this just that shaped me deeply um to this just that shaped me deeply um to this day. So, I don't want to make this a day. So, I don't want to make this a day. So, I don't want to make this a critique about Dawn because when you critique about Dawn because when you critique about Dawn because when you come in and I've never met Don, that come in and I've never met Don, that come in and I've never met Don, that kind of thing, but you clearly had some kind of thing, but you clearly had some kind of thing, but you clearly had some ideas ideas ideas about what was broken in church about what was broken in church about what was broken in church leadership. You had this vision, right, leadership. You had this vision, right, leadership. You had this vision, right, that you wanted to see the church become that you wanted to see the church become that you wanted to see the church become the best organization in the world, etc. the best organization in the world, etc. the best organization in the world, etc. So, speaking of church in general and So, speaking of church in general and So, speaking of church in general and maybe with some specific application, maybe with some specific application, maybe with some specific application, what were some of the things you knew what were some of the things you knew what were some of the things you knew had to change? Yeah. Well, first of all, had to change? Yeah. Well, first of all, had to change? Yeah. Well, first of all, I think I think Don did lead really I think I think Don did lead really I think I think Don did lead really well. I know. I mean, he was a you know, well. I know. I mean, he was a you know, well. I know. I mean, he was a you know, you think about starting in a living you think about starting in a living you think about starting in a living room and building it building a church.

room and building it building a church. room and building it building a church. Um, and it was running how many people Um, and it was running how many people Um, and it was running how many people when you joined? About 10,000. Yeah, when you joined? About 10,000. Yeah, when you joined? About 10,000. Yeah, about 10,000. And that was what year? about 10,000. And that was what year? about 10,000. And that was what year? 2000. That was in 2007. Yeah, that's 2000. That was in 2007. Yeah, that's 2000. That was in 2007. Yeah, that's huge. Yep. So I think you did, you know, huge. Yep. So I think you did, you know, huge. Yep. So I think you did, you know, I think what what the church does really I think what what the church does really I think what what the church does really really well like positively from a really well like positively from a really well like positively from a leadership standpoint that I think I leadership standpoint that I think I leadership standpoint that I think I observed really early on is I think we observed really early on is I think we observed really early on is I think we we really try to care for people. I we really try to care for people. I we really try to care for people. I think you know having an emphasis on think you know having an emphasis on think you know having an emphasis on prayer. I think I I see a lot um I think prayer. I think I I see a lot um I think prayer. I think I I see a lot um I think as as organizations grow, you know, as as organizations grow, you know, as as organizations grow, you know, sometimes the skill set needed for an an sometimes the skill set needed for an an sometimes the skill set needed for an an organization that's that's really small, organization that's that's really small, organization that's that's really small, your leadership has to has to morph and your leadership has to has to morph and your leadership has to has to morph and change over time as as it grows, right? change over time as as it grows, right? change over time as as it grows, right? So, you know, some of the things I saw, So, you know, some of the things I saw, So, you know, some of the things I saw, you know, just across the board is, you you know, just across the board is, you you know, just across the board is, you know, often times there's a lack of know, often times there's a lack of know, often times there's a lack of clarity. Um there's a lack of of of like clarity. Um there's a lack of of of like clarity. Um there's a lack of of of like are we really clear where we're going? are we really clear where we're going? are we really clear where we're going? there's a lack of goal setting. Are we there's a lack of goal setting. Are we there's a lack of goal setting. Are we are we shifting people back and forth are we shifting people back and forth are we shifting people back and forth just like crazy off the whim of like you just like crazy off the whim of like you just like crazy off the whim of like you know what's read this new book read this know what's read this new book read this know what's read this new book read this new book changing everything you know new book changing everything you know new book changing everything you know tomorrow let's go um I think you know at tomorrow let's go um I think you know at tomorrow let's go um I think you know at times um I would see say that man we had times um I would see say that man we had times um I would see say that man we had sometimes great vision but not the sometimes great vision but not the sometimes great vision but not the systems and you know that James Clear systems and you know that James Clear systems and you know that James Clear quote you don't you don't rise to the quote you don't you don't rise to the quote you don't you don't rise to the level of your goals you fall to the level of your goals you fall to the level of your goals you fall to the level of your systems yeah sometimes level of your systems yeah sometimes level of your systems yeah sometimes we're really weak in the the systems we're really weak in the the systems we're really weak in the the systems that are going to support what we're that are going to support what we're that are going to support what we're going to do Um, and then other times I going to do Um, and then other times I going to do Um, and then other times I think just from from leadership, we're think just from from leadership, we're think just from from leadership, we're we're not engaging

we're not engaging we're not engaging with the team as much. We're making it with the team as much. We're making it with the team as much. We're making it too tops down. too tops down. too tops down. And what that does is it what I would And what that does is it what I would And what that does is it what I would say to every leader here today, whether say to every leader here today, whether say to every leader here today, whether you have a team of four, five, 50, 100, you have a team of four, five, 50, 100, you have a team of four, five, 50, 100, um, there's latent energy um, there's latent energy um, there's latent energy in your organization at all levels. M in your organization at all levels. M in your organization at all levels. M and your job as a leader is you need to and your job as a leader is you need to and your job as a leader is you need to release that latent energy to all of its release that latent energy to all of its release that latent energy to all of its potential. Um but you can't release that potential. Um but you can't release that potential. Um but you can't release that latent energy unless you're not getting latent energy unless you're not getting latent energy unless you're not getting empowering and delegating, pushing empowering and delegating, pushing empowering and delegating, pushing decisions down and really empowering decisions down and really empowering decisions down and really empowering people with the right culture to make people with the right culture to make people with the right culture to make decisions. That's how you release the decisions. That's how you release the decisions. That's how you release the latent energy. What were some of the latent energy. What were some of the latent energy. What were some of the first moves you made to release that first moves you made to release that first moves you made to release that latent energy? I'll tell you one of the latent energy? I'll tell you one of the latent energy? I'll tell you one of the first moves I made. Um I was the I was first moves I made. Um I was the I was first moves I made. Um I was the I was the first executive pastor. I was a the first executive pastor. I was a the first executive pastor. I was a single executive pastor and within 6 single executive pastor and within 6 single executive pastor and within 6 months um I went to Dawn and said if I months um I went to Dawn and said if I months um I went to Dawn and said if I stay as a single executive pastor I will stay as a single executive pastor I will stay as a single executive pastor I will bottleneck this place. bottleneck this place. bottleneck this place. So one of the first moves we made is I So one of the first moves we made is I So one of the first moves we made is I went and said we we have to hire another went and said we we have to hire another went and said we we have to hire another executive pastor. Wow.

executive pastor. Wow. executive pastor. Wow. Um and we did and Um and we did and Um and we did and because what happens I'll even you know because what happens I'll even you know because what happens I'll even you know put it on on me what happens is you know put it on on me what happens is you know put it on on me what happens is you know with a single ex I think and this is with a single ex I think and this is with a single ex I think and this is just my opinion a lot of people can just my opinion a lot of people can just my opinion a lot of people can disagree disagree disagree your the church as you grow to a point your the church as you grow to a point your the church as you grow to a point you know you got to make sure that no you know you got to make sure that no you know you got to make sure that no one at the top is going to bottleneck one at the top is going to bottleneck one at the top is going to bottleneck um you know decision-m and growth and al um you know decision-m and growth and al um you know decision-m and growth and al for me personally you know I was looking for me personally you know I was looking for me personally you know I was looking at we we were 10,000 at the time, you at we we were 10,000 at the time, you at we we were 10,000 at the time, you know, a fairly large staff. You know, if know, a fairly large staff. You know, if know, a fairly large staff. You know, if I looked at what I was doing, it was not I looked at what I was doing, it was not I looked at what I was doing, it was not only all the operations, finance, HR, only all the operations, finance, HR, only all the operations, finance, HR, um, you know, and then every single um, you know, and then every single um, you know, and then every single ministry area we had as a church, right? ministry area we had as a church, right? ministry area we had as a church, right? Um, from, you know, weekends to kids to Um, from, you know, weekends to kids to Um, from, you know, weekends to kids to students to special needs to we have a students to special needs to we have a students to special needs to we have a budding sports ministry, you know, this budding sports ministry, you know, this budding sports ministry, you know, this huge sports ministry we run. Um, I huge sports ministry we run. Um, I huge sports ministry we run. Um, I thought for me to oversee and do all thought for me to oversee and do all thought for me to oversee and do all those really, really well, not at those really, really well, not at those really, really well, not at 10,000, but let's grow 20 and beyond. I 10,000, but let's grow 20 and beyond. I 10,000, but let's grow 20 and beyond. I think that's be that's beyond my skill think that's be that's beyond my skill think that's be that's beyond my skill set as just one person. So, we brought set as just one person. So, we brought set as just one person. So, we brought in um someone as another executive in um someone as another executive in um someone as another executive pastor. He took almost all the pastor. He took almost all the pastor. He took almost all the operational side of the church and I operational side of the church and I operational side of the church and I just kept the ministry side of the just kept the ministry side of the just kept the ministry side of the church. We ran that away for a while and church. We ran that away for a while and church. We ran that away for a while and then we morphed from there. Now we have then we morphed from there. Now we have then we morphed from there. Now we have an executive team. But I would say the an executive team. But I would say the an executive team. But I would say the focus on making it about empowered team focus on making it about empowered team focus on making it about empowered team members, not only at the top, but members, not only at the top, but members, not only at the top, but everywhere. That's one of those big

everywhere. That's one of those big everywhere. That's one of those big things that that releases that latent things that that releases that latent things that that releases that latent energy. So I want to talk about growth energy. So I want to talk about growth energy. So I want to talk about growth and the challenges and the opportunities and the challenges and the opportunities and the challenges and the opportunities and the stresses it creates. So you and the stresses it creates. So you and the stresses it creates. So you became lead pastor in what year? 2017. became lead pastor in what year? 2017. became lead pastor in what year? 2017. 2017. 2017, you step in the lead pastor 2017. 2017, you step in the lead pastor 2017. 2017, you step in the lead pastor role. role. role. Talk to us a little bit about that Talk to us a little bit about that Talk to us a little bit about that process because I mean at Intel, you process because I mean at Intel, you process because I mean at Intel, you weren't giving talks every week. As an weren't giving talks every week. As an weren't giving talks every week. As an executive pastor, you're more of a executive pastor, you're more of a executive pastor, you're more of a behind thescenes role. What made you behind thescenes role. What made you behind thescenes role. What made you feel like, yeah, this is God's calling feel like, yeah, this is God's calling feel like, yeah, this is God's calling on my life? Yeah. So, you know, when I on my life? Yeah. So, you know, when I on my life? Yeah. So, you know, when I morphed from my executive pastor role in morphed from my executive pastor role in morphed from my executive pastor role in 2007, you know, to more the ministry 2007, you know, to more the ministry 2007, you know, to more the ministry side of things, um, I did start teaching side of things, um, I did start teaching side of things, um, I did start teaching and joined our teaching team and started and joined our teaching team and started and joined our teaching team and started teaching, uh, a little more. So, and teaching, uh, a little more. So, and teaching, uh, a little more. So, and Intel actually provided me a great Intel actually provided me a great Intel actually provided me a great experience on the communication front, experience on the communication front, experience on the communication front, too. Believe it or not, really. Yeah, it too. Believe it or not, really. Yeah, it too. Believe it or not, really. Yeah, it really did. Yeah. Okay. I I I don't know really did. Yeah. Okay. I I I don't know really did. Yeah. Okay. I I I don't know if I've ever probably told these stories if I've ever probably told these stories if I've ever probably told these stories much, but you know, Bible College gave much, but you know, Bible College gave much, but you know, Bible College gave me some, you know, basics. But when I me some, you know, basics. But when I me some, you know, basics. But when I was at Intel, you know, that role of of was at Intel, you know, that role of of was at Intel, you know, that role of of influence role, my whole role, I was influence role, my whole role, I was influence role, my whole role, I was doing presentations in front of large doing presentations in front of large doing presentations in front of large groups of people all the time. Really?

groups of people all the time. Really? groups of people all the time. Really? Almost every week. Huh. Like slide Almost every week. Huh. Like slide Almost every week. Huh. Like slide decks, that kind of thing. Yes. And but decks, that kind of thing. Yes. And but decks, that kind of thing. Yes. And but it was it was in it was in an it was it was in it was in an it was it was in it was in an environment where typically what I was environment where typically what I was environment where typically what I was presenting was not exactly what everyone presenting was not exactly what everyone presenting was not exactly what everyone wanted to hear. wanted to hear. wanted to hear. Okay, say more. So, because again, my Okay, say more. So, because again, my Okay, say more. So, because again, my job is to help influence job is to help influence job is to help influence um whatever business unit I'm I'm um whatever business unit I'm I'm um whatever business unit I'm I'm attached to. And often times, I'm trying attached to. And often times, I'm trying attached to. And often times, I'm trying to influence them to look at things a to influence them to look at things a to influence them to look at things a different way that they don't always different way that they don't always different way that they don't always want to see. And so, I have to learn how want to see. And so, I have to learn how want to see. And so, I have to learn how to present in a way that is is to present in a way that is is to present in a way that is is influential, is is winsome. And so, what influential, is is winsome. And so, what influential, is is winsome. And so, what were some of the principles you figured were some of the principles you figured were some of the principles you figured out early on? So, you know, you figure out early on? So, you know, you figure out early on? So, you know, you figure out how to structure a you figure out out how to structure a you figure out out how to structure a you figure out how to structure a presentation, right? how to structure a presentation, right? how to structure a presentation, right? Where you're not, you know, you're not I Where you're not, you know, you're not I Where you're not, you know, you're not I remember early on, you know, you we we remember early on, you know, you we we remember early on, you know, you we we do these we do these uh trainings where do these we do these uh trainings where do these we do these uh trainings where you're getting trained as a presenter, you're getting trained as a presenter, you're getting trained as a presenter, especially and just saying, "Hey, don't especially and just saying, "Hey, don't especially and just saying, "Hey, don't lead with like the hardest thing right lead with like the hardest thing right lead with like the hardest thing right up right up front." Unless you think up right up front." Unless you think up right up front." Unless you think that that group's like really really that that group's like really really that that group's like really really receptive to it, right? You're going to receptive to it, right? You're going to receptive to it, right? You're going to put that in a way where you're going to put that in a way where you're going to put that in a way where you're going to lead them to this. So, you know, you lead them to this. So, you know, you lead them to this. So, you know, you even learned that. I even learned that even learned that. I even learned that even learned that. I even learned that in the business world. Then you start in the business world. Then you start in the business world. Then you start teaching and you're like, "Okay, how am teaching and you're like, "Okay, how am teaching and you're like, "Okay, how am I going to structure this talk in a way I going to structure this talk in a way I going to structure this talk in a way that I'm taking God's word and maybe that I'm taking God's word and maybe that I'm taking God's word and maybe something a little tough from God's word something a little tough from God's word something a little tough from God's word and how can we open hearts like as as and how can we open hearts like as as and how can we open hearts like as as we're as we're so that they're ready to we're as we're so that they're ready to we're as we're so that they're ready to hear the Yeah, exactly. So, that was hear the Yeah, exactly. So, that was hear the Yeah, exactly. So, that was that that was helpful. But, you know,

that that was helpful. But, you know, that that was helpful. But, you know, the the transition um and I want to make the the transition um and I want to make the the transition um and I want to make sure I answer your question because we sure I answer your question because we sure I answer your question because we get back to but but you know getting to get back to but but you know getting to get back to but but you know getting to that point where you know Don came to me that point where you know Don came to me that point where you know Don came to me one day and said cuz it was not on my one day and said cuz it was not on my one day and said cuz it was not on my radar to be a a senior pastor. I wasn't radar to be a a senior pastor. I wasn't radar to be a a senior pastor. I wasn't planning I that was never. So even when planning I that was never. So even when planning I that was never. So even when you were XP, it wasn't at all. Hey, one you were XP, it wasn't at all. Hey, one you were XP, it wasn't at all. Hey, one day. No, I didn't. Again, my my vision day. No, I didn't. Again, my my vision day. No, I didn't. Again, my my vision is I just wanted the church to be I I is I just wanted the church to be I I is I just wanted the church to be I I was really cared about the church being was really cared about the church being was really cared about the church being like well well led. So you got tapped on like well well led. So you got tapped on like well well led. So you got tapped on the shoulder or what happened? I did. the shoulder or what happened? I did. the shoulder or what happened? I did. Yeah, I got tapped on the shoulder and Yeah, I got tapped on the shoulder and Yeah, I got tapped on the shoulder and Don came one day and said, "Hey, I think Don came one day and said, "Hey, I think Don came one day and said, "Hey, I think um it should be you." Yeah. We'd had a um it should be you." Yeah. We'd had a um it should be you." Yeah. We'd had a few other people we'd looked at that had few other people we'd looked at that had few other people we'd looked at that had not quite worked out. He came one day not quite worked out. He came one day not quite worked out. He came one day and said, "I think I think it should be and said, "I think I think it should be and said, "I think I think it should be you." And I was like, I don't think so. you." And I was like, I don't think so. you." And I was like, I don't think so. I was like, I that's something I would I was like, I that's something I would I was like, I that's something I would have to I mean, cuz it wasn't I I was have to I mean, cuz it wasn't I I was have to I mean, cuz it wasn't I I was not that was not on my radar. Yeah. So, not that was not on my radar. Yeah. So, not that was not on my radar. Yeah. So, the first thing I did when he tapped me the first thing I did when he tapped me the first thing I did when he tapped me on the shoulder, and again, it was this, on the shoulder, and again, it was this, on the shoulder, and again, it was this, "Hey, just pray about it." I said, "Hey, just pray about it." I said, "Hey, just pray about it." I said, "That's going to take a lot of prayer." "That's going to take a lot of prayer." "That's going to take a lot of prayer." I actually I got on a plane and flew I actually I got on a plane and flew I actually I got on a plane and flew solo to Israel, my favorite place in the solo to Israel, my favorite place in the solo to Israel, my favorite place in the world.

world. world. um spent a week in Israel just praying um spent a week in Israel just praying um spent a week in Israel just praying um on a rooftop in the old city of um on a rooftop in the old city of um on a rooftop in the old city of Jerusalem looking out over the church of Jerusalem looking out over the church of Jerusalem looking out over the church of the holy supplr and the temple mount and the holy supplr and the temple mount and the holy supplr and the temple mount and I just sat with the week praying and I just sat with the week praying and I just sat with the week praying and asking God is this something you would asking God is this something you would asking God is this something you would want me to do um not even at CCV just in want me to do um not even at CCV just in want me to do um not even at CCV just in general do you want me to be a senior general do you want me to be a senior general do you want me to be a senior pastor and then I felt like God gave me pastor and then I felt like God gave me pastor and then I felt like God gave me an answer there like yes you you could an answer there like yes you you could an answer there like yes you you could be not that I had to It was an be not that I had to It was an be not that I had to It was an impression or like what? Yeah, it impression or like what? Yeah, it impression or like what? Yeah, it wasn't, you know, this wasn't a a um wasn't, you know, this wasn't a a um wasn't, you know, this wasn't a a um voice in the night or clouds parting voice in the night or clouds parting voice in the night or clouds parting type thing. It was just it really was an type thing. It was just it really was an type thing. It was just it really was an impression. It was kind of felt like, impression. It was kind of felt like, impression. It was kind of felt like, hey, my life is a stewardship and God, hey, my life is a stewardship and God, hey, my life is a stewardship and God, is this something that you want me to to is this something that you want me to to is this something that you want me to to steward next? And I felt like God was steward next? And I felt like God was steward next? And I felt like God was like, yeah, I think I think you you you like, yeah, I think I think you you you like, yeah, I think I think you you you can. Not even that I had to, but that can. Not even that I had to, but that can. Not even that I had to, but that that I could. Then the next question I that I could. Then the next question I that I could. Then the next question I was trying to answer was, should it be was trying to answer was, should it be was trying to answer was, should it be at CCB? Yeah. should that be here? And at CCB? Yeah. should that be here? And at CCB? Yeah. should that be here? And the way we approached succession is I I the way we approached succession is I I the way we approached succession is I I started looking at I started reading started looking at I started reading started looking at I started reading every book I could on succession. So I every book I could on succession. So I every book I could on succession. So I read every business book I could, every read every business book I could, every read every business book I could, every book that's written in the church on book that's written in the church on book that's written in the church on succession and just tried to become a succession and just tried to become a succession and just tried to become a student of hey I I don't want to step student of hey I I don't want to step student of hey I I don't want to step into something unless I really feel like into something unless I really feel like into something unless I really feel like this is going to be good and work this is going to be good and work this is going to be good and work because this isn't a this senior pastor because this isn't a this senior pastor because this isn't a this senior pastor role is not that's not a mountain like role is not that's not a mountain like role is not that's not a mountain like it's not a you're not climbing a it's not a you're not climbing a it's not a you're not climbing a mountain to get to some destination, mountain to get to some destination, mountain to get to some destination, right? this is this needs to be a right? this is this needs to be a right? this is this needs to be a calling. It needs to be like God really

calling. It needs to be like God really calling. It needs to be like God really has called you and you feel like has called you and you feel like has called you and you feel like stepping into this role is going to stepping into this role is going to stepping into this role is going to work. And so, um, we can dive into that work. And so, um, we can dive into that work. And so, um, we can dive into that as much as you want, but I came back as much as you want, but I came back as much as you want, but I came back with what I felt like was a plan that, with what I felt like was a plan that, with what I felt like was a plan that, um, I felt like could could work with um, I felt like could could work with um, I felt like could could work with with our transition, but again, it was with our transition, but again, it was with our transition, but again, it was Dawn's to give, not mine to to take. And Dawn's to give, not mine to to take. And Dawn's to give, not mine to to take. And um we did I tried to do some things um we did I tried to do some things um we did I tried to do some things differently because when I looked at I differently because when I looked at I differently because when I looked at I saw a transition happen at Intel so I saw a transition happen at Intel so I saw a transition happen at Intel so I watched it I watched it go really really watched it I watched it go really really watched it I watched it go really really well and then sometimes when I look well and then sometimes when I look well and then sometimes when I look inside the church I was watching some of inside the church I was watching some of inside the church I was watching some of our transitions almost never goes well our transitions almost never goes well our transitions almost never goes well and they're not going well and so and they're not going well and so and they're not going well and so insanity is doing the same thing over insanity is doing the same thing over insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different and over again expecting a different and over again expecting a different result. So when I was thinking about result. So when I was thinking about result. So when I was thinking about succession, I was like, "Hey, let's succession, I was like, "Hey, let's succession, I was like, "Hey, let's let's maybe think about this in a way let's maybe think about this in a way let's maybe think about this in a way that that I think it can really work that that I think it can really work that that I think it can really work well." And by the way, if that doesn't well." And by the way, if that doesn't well." And by the way, if that doesn't work for you, Don, that that's okay. work for you, Don, that that's okay. work for you, Don, that that's okay. What were some of the the things that What were some of the the things that What were some of the the things that you thought would help it go well? You you thought would help it go well? You you thought would help it go well? You know, I think part of it is is the know, I think part of it is is the know, I think part of it is is the timing. You know, I think sometimes we timing. You know, I think sometimes we timing. You know, I think sometimes we might drag these out too too long. Yeah.

might drag these out too too long. Yeah. might drag these out too too long. Yeah. Um which Yeah. In the corporate world, Um which Yeah. In the corporate world, Um which Yeah. In the corporate world, it's pretty short. It is because what it's pretty short. It is because what it's pretty short. It is because what happens in the middle of of transition happens in the middle of of transition happens in the middle of of transition if you're not careful is it actually if you're not careful is it actually if you're not careful is it actually slows things down because the moment you slows things down because the moment you slows things down because the moment you announce there's going to be a new announce there's going to be a new announce there's going to be a new leader organizationally leader organizationally leader organizationally you can bottleneck things because now you can bottleneck things because now you can bottleneck things because now everyone's confused about who do I go everyone's confused about who do I go everyone's confused about who do I go for who do I go to for the actual for who do I go to for the actual for who do I go to for the actual decision and even though you still may decision and even though you still may decision and even though you still may have the senior pastor who's in place have the senior pastor who's in place have the senior pastor who's in place you know there's a there's a new guy you know there's a there's a new guy you know there's a there's a new guy coming so it becomes this weird dynamic coming so it becomes this weird dynamic coming so it becomes this weird dynamic organizationally and that can actually organizationally and that can actually organizationally and that can actually slow down momentum. Yeah. And and if if slow down momentum. Yeah. And and if if slow down momentum. Yeah. And and if if you So what was the window that you and you So what was the window that you and you So what was the window that you and Don agreed on? So we agreed on a pretty Don agreed on? So we agreed on a pretty Don agreed on? So we agreed on a pretty short short window. So it was less than short short window. So it was less than short short window. So it was less than a year from when we announced to when it a year from when we announced to when it a year from when we announced to when it happened. But then the other thing we happened. But then the other thing we happened. But then the other thing we just really talked about um that you just really talked about um that you just really talked about um that you know again there's lots of different know again there's lots of different know again there's lots of different opinions on this and I feel like this is opinions on this and I feel like this is opinions on this and I feel like this is a this is not exactly um a very popular a this is not exactly um a very popular a this is not exactly um a very popular opinion maybe out there today, but I opinion maybe out there today, but I opinion maybe out there today, but I just really felt like um there should be just really felt like um there should be just really felt like um there should be a clean handoff. I felt like there a clean handoff. I felt like there a clean handoff. I felt like there should be a clean handoff where there should be a clean handoff where there should be a clean handoff where there wasn't, you know, a role still on on wasn't, you know, a role still on on wasn't, you know, a role still on on staff. Do you mean? And part of the staff. Do you mean? And part of the staff. Do you mean? And part of the reason I I I saw that is I just I don't reason I I I saw that is I just I don't reason I I I saw that is I just I don't think I think there can be occasions think I think there can be occasions think I think there can be occasions where that doesn't happen. But if I look where that doesn't happen. But if I look where that doesn't happen. But if I look in the corporate world, I look at in in the corporate world, I look at in in the corporate world, I look at in transitions that happen in the business transitions that happen in the business transitions that happen in the business world. Yeah. The old CEO doesn't have an world. Yeah. The old CEO doesn't have an world. Yeah. The old CEO doesn't have an office. He doesn't have an office still.

office. He doesn't have an office still. office. He doesn't have an office still. He's not coming in still. You know what He's not coming in still. You know what He's not coming in still. You know what I mean? Like that that does not happen. I mean? Like that that does not happen. I mean? Like that that does not happen. Mhm. And yet that's kind of the play we Mhm. And yet that's kind of the play we Mhm. And yet that's kind of the play we run in the church over and over again. run in the church over and over again. run in the church over and over again. Yeah. What are the problems with that? Yeah. What are the problems with that? Yeah. What are the problems with that? Again, I think it just it just makes Again, I think it just it just makes Again, I think it just it just makes sometimes the forward movement and like sometimes the forward movement and like sometimes the forward movement and like vision and where we headed, where are we vision and where we headed, where are we vision and where we headed, where are we moving? It can just confuse it. Even if moving? It can just confuse it. Even if moving? It can just confuse it. Even if the the the previous senior pastors on the the the previous senior pastors on the the the previous senior pastors on board Yeah. with where it's going. if if board Yeah. with where it's going. if if board Yeah. with where it's going. if if there's one little thing that maybe um there's one little thing that maybe um there's one little thing that maybe um he's like, "Ah, I'm not sure why you're he's like, "Ah, I'm not sure why you're he's like, "Ah, I'm not sure why you're doing that." Um why why would you do doing that." Um why why would you do doing that." Um why why would you do that? Well, even if he's not saying that? Well, even if he's not saying that? Well, even if he's not saying saying that, people can read saying that, people can read saying that, people can read expressions. People can read body expressions. People can read body expressions. People can read body language. So, it just can get a little language. So, it just can get a little language. So, it just can get a little bit messy. And I think it it's the clean bit messy. And I think it it's the clean bit messy. And I think it it's the clean transition also allows you to move into transition also allows you to move into transition also allows you to move into a new day. a new day. a new day. It it allows you to move into a new It it allows you to move into a new It it allows you to move into a new season faster. Do you know what I mean? season faster. Do you know what I mean? season faster. Do you know what I mean? Where that person has a little more Where that person has a little more Where that person has a little more freedom to say, "Here's where we're freedom to say, "Here's where we're freedom to say, "Here's where we're going." And again, not that you're going." And again, not that you're going." And again, not that you're changing things wholesale, but you need changing things wholesale, but you need changing things wholesale, but you need to have a new season with a new senior to have a new season with a new senior to have a new season with a new senior pastor. What was one of the best early pastor. What was one of the best early pastor. What was one of the best early decisions you made when you became an decisions you made when you became an decisions you made when you became an elite pastor, senior pastor?

elite pastor, senior pastor? elite pastor, senior pastor? Um, I think to keep a teaching team. Um, Um, I think to keep a teaching team. Um, Um, I think to keep a teaching team. Um, I think, you know, some of the advice I I think, you know, some of the advice I I think, you know, some of the advice I got by some people early on was, "Hey, got by some people early on was, "Hey, got by some people early on was, "Hey, if this church is going to transition to if this church is going to transition to if this church is going to transition to you, you need to get almost 48 Sundays a you, you need to get almost 48 Sundays a you, you need to get almost 48 Sundays a year. You need to have way more reps. year. You need to have way more reps. year. You need to have way more reps. You need to you need to amp up your You need to you need to amp up your You need to you need to amp up your preaching like crazy." Um, and again, I preaching like crazy." Um, and again, I preaching like crazy." Um, and again, I I bucked at that and just said, I no, I I bucked at that and just said, I no, I I bucked at that and just said, I no, I really believe in the team and I want to really believe in the team and I want to really believe in the team and I want to keep our teaching team model here. So, I keep our teaching team model here. So, I keep our teaching team model here. So, I think that was a really good decision. think that was a really good decision. think that was a really good decision. And then, you know, really trying to And then, you know, really trying to And then, you know, really trying to just, you know, drive the make sure our just, you know, drive the make sure our just, you know, drive the make sure our culture is clear, make us team oriented, culture is clear, make us team oriented, culture is clear, make us team oriented, make sure my executive team was really make sure my executive team was really make sure my executive team was really um in sync. I felt like that was a um in sync. I felt like that was a um in sync. I felt like that was a really big deal early on. And then we really big deal early on. And then we really big deal early on. And then we took, you know, and then we took a few took, you know, and then we took a few took, you know, and then we took a few risks early on, too, you know. Well, I'd risks early on, too, you know. Well, I'd risks early on, too, you know. Well, I'd say, you know, soon after I I took over, say, you know, soon after I I took over, say, you know, soon after I I took over, um, and you got to be careful how you do um, and you got to be careful how you do um, and you got to be careful how you do this as a new senior pastor. This is this as a new senior pastor. This is this as a new senior pastor. This is very, you don't want to make, you know, very, you don't want to make, you know, very, you don't want to make, you know, big wholesale changes. And I I'd been a big wholesale changes. And I I'd been a big wholesale changes. And I I'd been a part of the church for so long helping part of the church for so long helping part of the church for so long helping lead here that I was not there, there lead here that I was not there, there lead here that I was not there, there was nothing I was like wholesale was nothing I was like wholesale was nothing I was like wholesale changing. Does that make sense? But changing. Does that make sense? But changing. Does that make sense? But there were some things that we we risked there were some things that we we risked there were some things that we we risked on. So within actually a few months, we on. So within actually a few months, we on. So within actually a few months, we took a really big risk and did this took a really big risk and did this took a really big risk and did this initiative with Compassion International initiative with Compassion International initiative with Compassion International where we attempted to sponsor every where we attempted to sponsor every where we attempted to sponsor every single child in the country of Colombia.

single child in the country of Colombia. single child in the country of Colombia. It was 11,000 kids at the time. It was a It was 11,000 kids at the time. It was a It was 11,000 kids at the time. It was a big risk as a church. Um and the church big risk as a church. Um and the church big risk as a church. Um and the church ended up doing it, which was about a $7 ended up doing it, which was about a $7 ended up doing it, which was about a $7 million all in. It was about a $7 million all in. It was about a $7 million all in. It was about a $7 million. We planted eight churches and million. We planted eight churches and million. We planted eight churches and sponsored every child available in sponsored every child available in sponsored every child available in Colombia at the time. So, it's a $7 Colombia at the time. So, it's a $7 Colombia at the time. So, it's a $7 million investment that the church gave, million investment that the church gave, million investment that the church gave, which you're going like, wow, that's a which you're going like, wow, that's a which you're going like, wow, that's a lot of money. That's going somewhere lot of money. That's going somewhere lot of money. That's going somewhere else to your bottom line. Yeah. But, you else to your bottom line. Yeah. But, you else to your bottom line. Yeah. But, you know, we'll we'll talk more about, you know, we'll we'll talk more about, you know, we'll we'll talk more about, you know, part kind of our stewardship know, part kind of our stewardship know, part kind of our stewardship journey. You know, the Godwink God gave journey. You know, the Godwink God gave journey. You know, the Godwink God gave us the next year. The church's um giving us the next year. The church's um giving us the next year. The church's um giving went up by $7 million. went up by $7 million. went up by $7 million. Wow. That wild. That is wild. So it was Wow. That wild. That is wild. So it was Wow. That wild. That is wild. So it was it but it was a it was a faith it was an it but it was a it was a faith it was an it but it was a it was a faith it was an early risk but a big faithb building early risk but a big faithb building early risk but a big faithb building thing I think not only but for me me too thing I think not only but for me me too thing I think not only but for me me too just to see what what God's up to and just to see what what God's up to and just to see what what God's up to and and um what what are some is there a and um what what are some is there a and um what what are some is there a decision or two you wish you could get decision or two you wish you could get decision or two you wish you could get back that you made in the early years of back that you made in the early years of back that you made in the early years of being lead pastor kind of like woo being lead pastor kind of like woo being lead pastor kind of like woo wouldn't do that again. Yeah, I think I wouldn't do that again. Yeah, I think I wouldn't do that again. Yeah, I think I think on the you know I I had think on the you know I I had think on the you know I I had I think on the people side of things I I I think on the people side of things I I I think on the people side of things I I would have made some people decisions would have made some people decisions would have made some people decisions sooner. Um you know with with just you sooner. Um you know with with just you sooner. Um you know with with just you know with just staff that you're know with just staff that you're know with just staff that you're wondering are they going to you know are wondering are they going to you know are wondering are they going to you know are they going to be a cultural fit? Are they going to be a cultural fit? Are they going to be a cultural fit? Are they team oriented? Are they really they team oriented? Are they really they team oriented? Are they really coming along? You know as a as a senior coming along? You know as a as a senior coming along? You know as a as a senior pastor I think I would I would have made pastor I think I would I would have made pastor I think I would I would have made some moves sooner gone faster. I would some moves sooner gone faster. I would some moves sooner gone faster. I would have Yeah. And that's some, you know, I

have Yeah. And that's some, you know, I have Yeah. And that's some, you know, I think feedback on my leadership, you think feedback on my leadership, you think feedback on my leadership, you know, uh, has been at times I feel like know, uh, has been at times I feel like know, uh, has been at times I feel like I can I feel like sometimes I can I can I can I feel like sometimes I can I can I can I feel like sometimes I can I can help someone. I I'm I'm good enough to help someone. I I'm I'm good enough to help someone. I I'm I'm good enough to help them come along. You know what I help them come along. You know what I help them come along. You know what I mean? Right. I can turn this around. I mean? Right. I can turn this around. I mean? Right. I can turn this around. I can turn this around. It's actually a can turn this around. It's actually a can turn this around. It's actually a it's a little little prideful to be it's a little little prideful to be it's a little little prideful to be honest at times where you just got to honest at times where you just got to honest at times where you just got to say no, you you you're not and we need say no, you you you're not and we need say no, you you you're not and we need we need to we need to make some moves we need to we need to make some moves we need to we need to make some moves here. So, I think that early on I I here. So, I think that early on I I here. So, I think that early on I I would have done that. I would have made would have done that. I would have made would have done that. I would have made some quicker moves. Yeah. Um some quicker moves. Yeah. Um some quicker moves. Yeah. Um I want to talk about size because you I want to talk about size because you I want to talk about size because you have been dealing with so much growth have been dealing with so much growth have been dealing with so much growth and so much momentum which is a great and so much momentum which is a great and so much momentum which is a great problem to have but it still creates problem to have but it still creates problem to have but it still creates challenges. So when you became senior challenges. So when you became senior challenges. So when you became senior pastor 2017 roughly weekend attendance pastor 2017 roughly weekend attendance pastor 2017 roughly weekend attendance was Yeah. Uh when I took over our was Yeah. Uh when I took over our was Yeah. Uh when I took over our weekend attendance was around 27,000. weekend attendance was around 27,000. weekend attendance was around 27,000. 27,000. 27,000. 27,000. COVID hits 3 years later. Two and a COVID hits 3 years later. Two and a COVID hits 3 years later. Two and a half. Yeah. Three and a half years half. Yeah. Three and a half years half. Yeah. Three and a half years later. Y um what was it running when later. Y um what was it running when later. Y um what was it running when COVID hit? CO we were I think we were COVID hit? CO we were I think we were COVID hit? CO we were I think we were just right about 34,000. So you' already just right about 34,000. So you' already just right about 34,000. So you' already grown? Yep. Right. Did you did you have grown? Yep. Right. Did you did you have grown? Yep. Right. Did you did you have a little bit of a lull after you took a little bit of a lull after you took a little bit of a lull after you took over? That's very typical for a lot of over? That's very typical for a lot of over? That's very typical for a lot of churches. Or it was momentum out of the churches. Or it was momentum out of the churches. Or it was momentum out of the gate. So now we didn't. Wow. But I I gate. So now we didn't. Wow. But I I gate. So now we didn't. Wow. But I I think that's part of it's how we did the think that's part of it's how we did the think that's part of it's how we did the transition too. Um I would say that you transition too. Um I would say that you transition too. Um I would say that you know the year before even though I took know the year before even though I took know the year before even though I took over in 2017 the year before our over in 2017 the year before our over in 2017 the year before our previous senior pastor only taught I previous senior pastor only taught I previous senior pastor only taught I think nine times. Okay. So the think nine times. Okay. So the think nine times. Okay. So the transition was already happening so to

transition was already happening so to transition was already happening so to speak. So we and he had moved his office speak. So we and he had moved his office speak. So we and he had moved his office out and he he actually wasn't really out and he he actually wasn't really out and he he actually wasn't really here much which is a great gift to me here much which is a great gift to me here much which is a great gift to me because it allowed a lot of of because it allowed a lot of of because it allowed a lot of of leadership and that the church was leadership and that the church was leadership and that the church was already used to my preaching. So but so already used to my preaching. So but so already used to my preaching. So but so I think there's some learnings there by I think there's some learnings there by I think there's some learnings there by the way. um with with transition. Go the way. um with with transition. Go the way. um with with transition. Go ahead and feel free to Well, I just ahead and feel free to Well, I just ahead and feel free to Well, I just think you you know there's let me put it think you you know there's let me put it think you you know there's let me put it this way. I think there's three ways to this way. I think there's three ways to this way. I think there's three ways to approach the ending point of of a of a approach the ending point of of a of a approach the ending point of of a of a transition. And I think the three ways transition. And I think the three ways transition. And I think the three ways are one um the senior pastor can lead are one um the senior pastor can lead are one um the senior pastor can lead hard making all the decisions and hard making all the decisions and hard making all the decisions and preaching the majority of the weeks preaching the majority of the weeks preaching the majority of the weeks until the day he leaves. Okay, that's until the day he leaves. Okay, that's until the day he leaves. Okay, that's one way of doing it. Um, another way of one way of doing it. Um, another way of one way of doing it. Um, another way of doing it is to try to really share just doing it is to try to really share just doing it is to try to really share just share everything up until the very end. share everything up until the very end. share everything up until the very end. Yeah. Okay. Um, and then the third way Yeah. Okay. Um, and then the third way Yeah. Okay. Um, and then the third way of doing it is a little bit of how we of doing it is a little bit of how we of doing it is a little bit of how we did it. And I don't even think we did did it. And I don't even think we did did it. And I don't even think we did this strategically. The taper. Yeah.

this strategically. The taper. Yeah. this strategically. The taper. Yeah. Yeah. The taper, which is like, hey, I'm Yeah. The taper, which is like, hey, I'm Yeah. The taper, which is like, hey, I'm going to really taper off a year before going to really taper off a year before going to really taper off a year before even the transition, even the transition, even the transition, which then allows which which is that's which then allows which which is that's which then allows which which is that's what we did. So what it did for me is I what we did. So what it did for me is I what we did. So what it did for me is I was already preaching the majority of was already preaching the majority of was already preaching the majority of the weeks and almost every leadership the weeks and almost every leadership the weeks and almost every leadership decision we were making as a church the decision we were making as a church the decision we were making as a church the year I was already I made. So it's kind year I was already I made. So it's kind year I was already I made. So it's kind of like oh of course Ashley's the new of like oh of course Ashley's the new of like oh of course Ashley's the new lead pastor. So then it yeah just really lead pastor. So then it yeah just really lead pastor. So then it yeah just really it it allows you to create a little more it it allows you to create a little more it it allows you to create a little more momentum leading up to the transition momentum leading up to the transition momentum leading up to the transition because what you don't want to do is you because what you don't want to do is you because what you don't want to do is you don't want to slow the momentum down don't want to slow the momentum down don't want to slow the momentum down leading up to the transition. leading up to the transition. leading up to the transition. So, back to where we were coming out of So, back to where we were coming out of So, back to where we were coming out of CO. Um, CO. Um, CO. Um, you had a quick rebound, but like you had a quick rebound, but like you had a quick rebound, but like everybody, you went from 34,000 to what everybody, you went from 34,000 to what everybody, you went from 34,000 to what when you reopened and you were only when you reopened and you were only when you reopened and you were only closed briefly, right? We were. Yeah, we closed briefly, right? We were. Yeah, we closed briefly, right? We were. Yeah, we closed down. I think when we reopened in closed down. I think when we reopened in closed down. I think when we reopened in August, we were down to, you know, we August, we were down to, you know, we August, we were down to, you know, we opened with 15,000, you know, 14 and opened with 15,000, you know, 14 and opened with 15,000, you know, 14 and some change. Sounds like a lot. But when some change. Sounds like a lot. But when some change. Sounds like a lot. But when you're when you're It's a third of what you're when you're It's a third of what you're when you're It's a third of what you're used to. Half of what you're used you're used to. Half of what you're used you're used to. Half of what you're used to. I think it was 38. It was 38% of to. I think it was 38. It was 38% of to. I think it was 38. It was 38% of what we were or something like that.

what we were or something like that. what we were or something like that. Yeah. But how long did it take you? You Yeah. But how long did it take you? You Yeah. But how long did it take you? You were probably one of the fastest were probably one of the fastest were probably one of the fastest churches to quote come back. Yeah. churches to quote come back. Yeah. churches to quote come back. Yeah. You're showing me the spreadsheet this You're showing me the spreadsheet this You're showing me the spreadsheet this morning. It's like precoid attendance. morning. It's like precoid attendance. morning. It's like precoid attendance. Yeah. asked to see it and you know we we Yeah. asked to see it and you know we we Yeah. asked to see it and you know we we we showed it but we we did we um you we showed it but we we did we um you we showed it but we we did we um you know we opened up in in we reopened in know we opened up in in we reopened in know we opened up in in we reopened in August and by by January we were we were August and by by January we were we were August and by by January we were we were exceeding our our precoid um attendance exceeding our our precoid um attendance exceeding our our precoid um attendance numbers and since then in the last four numbers and since then in the last four numbers and since then in the last four years you've grown from 38,000 to 50 years you've grown from 38,000 to 50 years you've grown from 38,000 to 50 would be you know right like as we stand would be you know right like as we stand would be you know right like as we stand right now we just you know 50 and some right now we just you know 50 and some right now we just you know 50 and some change 54ish change 54ish change 54ish Wow. Wow. Again, one of the largest Wow. Wow. Again, one of the largest Wow. Wow. Again, one of the largest churches ever in America. Um, what are churches ever in America. Um, what are churches ever in America. Um, what are some changes you've made because you some changes you've made because you some changes you've made because you didn't come back the same? you made some didn't come back the same? you made some didn't come back the same? you made some strategic decisions in the last few strategic decisions in the last few strategic decisions in the last few years that you know apart from the Holy years that you know apart from the Holy years that you know apart from the Holy Spirit and God's sovereign grace maybe Spirit and God's sovereign grace maybe Spirit and God's sovereign grace maybe has helped with the quick rebound and an has helped with the quick rebound and an has helped with the quick rebound and an approach to ministry that um well 2007 approach to ministry that um well 2007 approach to ministry that um well 2007 is not the same as 2025 and you know is not the same as 2025 and you know is not the same as 2025 and you know 2017 is not the same that was 8 years 2017 is not the same that was 8 years 2017 is not the same that was 8 years ago so how are you helping the church as ago so how are you helping the church as ago so how are you helping the church as it grows really embrace what God is it grows really embrace what God is it grows really embrace what God is doing in this moment Yeah. I mean, I I doing in this moment Yeah. I mean, I I doing in this moment Yeah. I mean, I I think for sure I want to make sure that think for sure I want to make sure that think for sure I want to make sure that I just I just I wouldn't feel good if I I just I just I wouldn't feel good if I I just I just I wouldn't feel good if I didn't say this that we really feel

didn't say this that we really feel didn't say this that we really feel like, man, we we give God the glory and like, man, we we give God the glory and like, man, we we give God the glory and credit and it's his spirit that's that's credit and it's his spirit that's that's credit and it's his spirit that's that's moving and we can't fully explain that. moving and we can't fully explain that. moving and we can't fully explain that. I think we're trying to do everything we I think we're trying to do everything we I think we're trying to do everything we can to to still be, you know, what do we can to to still be, you know, what do we can to to still be, you know, what do we need to do? What strategies do we need need to do? What strategies do we need need to do? What strategies do we need to have in place? I'll tell you one one to have in place? I'll tell you one one to have in place? I'll tell you one one big bet we made in the middle of CO that big bet we made in the middle of CO that big bet we made in the middle of CO that um was a little counterintuitive at the um was a little counterintuitive at the um was a little counterintuitive at the time. If you just go back, you know, time. If you just go back, you know, time. If you just go back, you know, when co hit, it was there was a lot of when co hit, it was there was a lot of when co hit, it was there was a lot of conversations about, hey, maybe conversations about, hey, maybe conversations about, hey, maybe everything's going online. Maybe everything's going online. Maybe everything's going online. Maybe everything's going to stay online. Maybe everything's going to stay online. Maybe everything's going to stay online. Maybe everyone's going to work from home the everyone's going to work from home the everyone's going to work from home the rest of their life. And you know, with rest of their life. And you know, with rest of their life. And you know, with church world, it was kind of like, what church world, it was kind of like, what church world, it was kind of like, what what do we do here? It was a very what do we do here? It was a very what do we do here? It was a very confusing. It was utterly, it was very confusing. It was utterly, it was very confusing. It was utterly, it was very confusing. It was very emotional. confusing. It was very emotional. confusing. It was very emotional. And emotion is sometimes the enemy of And emotion is sometimes the enemy of And emotion is sometimes the enemy of good decision-m. So, we got to go back good decision-m. So, we got to go back good decision-m. So, we got to go back to our values. Okay. What do we value? to our values. Okay. What do we value? to our values. Okay. What do we value? One of our big values here that we've One of our big values here that we've One of our big values here that we've had for a long time is community. Um, had for a long time is community. Um, had for a long time is community. Um, not just the content we offer. And not just the content we offer. And not just the content we offer. And you've you've talked a lot about this you've you've talked a lot about this you've you've talked a lot about this that, you know, in the past, you know, that, you know, in the past, you know, that, you know, in the past, you know, content was scarce, community was content was scarce, community was content was scarce, community was abundant, you know, now we're almost in abundant, you know, now we're almost in abundant, you know, now we're almost in a in a in a place where postco it's like a in a in a place where postco it's like a in a in a place where postco it's like content's everywhere. Everywhere. And by content's everywhere. Everywhere. And by content's everywhere. Everywhere. And by the way, over co content was everywhere the way, over co content was everywhere the way, over co content was everywhere because everybody went online. You get because everybody went online. You get because everybody went online. You get content anywhere. Yeah. Right.

content anywhere. Yeah. Right. content anywhere. Yeah. Right. community just went to zip. It did. So community just went to zip. It did. So community just went to zip. It did. So over co what we bet big on over co what we bet big on over co what we bet big on um was we've always as a church not only um was we've always as a church not only um was we've always as a church not only had community groups that meet during had community groups that meet during had community groups that meet during the week that do community but we the week that do community but we the week that do community but we prioritize doing community on the prioritize doing community on the prioritize doing community on the weekends as well. So when you were here weekends as well. So when you were here weekends as well. So when you were here on every single one of our campuses we on every single one of our campuses we on every single one of our campuses we have environments that have chairs and have environments that have chairs and have environments that have chairs and tables and environments where people can tables and environments where people can tables and environments where people can get food. A huge coffee food court. a get food. A huge coffee food court. a get food. A huge coffee food court. a huge food court. So, we want people to huge food court. So, we want people to huge food court. So, we want people to do life and community here on campus. do life and community here on campus. do life and community here on campus. We've always done we've always done We've always done we've always done We've always done we've always done that. It's been great for us. Over co we that. It's been great for us. Over co we that. It's been great for us. Over co we made a big bet that that was not going made a big bet that that was not going made a big bet that that was not going to go away, but it was going to be to go away, but it was going to be to go away, but it was going to be needed even more. Yeah. And so, we needed even more. Yeah. And so, we needed even more. Yeah. And so, we doubled down even even on our new builds doubled down even even on our new builds doubled down even even on our new builds and existing spaces. We put more there. and existing spaces. We put more there. and existing spaces. We put more there. We put more emphasis on community We put more emphasis on community We put more emphasis on community spaces. So, you retrofitted. We did. We spaces. So, you retrofitted. We did. We spaces. So, you retrofitted. We did. We retrofitted and then we also took our retrofitted and then we also took our retrofitted and then we also took our campus model like the the model of campus model like the the model of campus model like the the model of campuses that we go build and replicate campuses that we go build and replicate campuses that we go build and replicate and we changed it. We changed it to and we changed it. We changed it to and we changed it. We changed it to dedicate more space to community on the dedicate more space to community on the dedicate more space to community on the weekends not less. And so we put more weekends not less. And so we put more weekends not less. And so we put more investment there which actually costs investment there which actually costs investment there which actually costs more. Yeah. How come? So it costs more more. Yeah. How come? So it costs more more. Yeah. How come? So it costs more in terms of square footage and physical in terms of square footage and physical in terms of square footage and physical space. But you know sometimes at a lot space. But you know sometimes at a lot space. But you know sometimes at a lot of megaurches it's sort of seat turns of megaurches it's sort of seat turns of megaurches it's sort of seat turns right. How quickly can you turn these right. How quickly can you turn these right. How quickly can you turn these seats? You're not shooting for that, are seats? You're not shooting for that, are seats? You're not shooting for that, are you? We're not. So, we actually don't you? We're not. So, we actually don't you? We're not. So, we actually don't want to, you know, how quickly you can

want to, you know, how quickly you can want to, you know, how quickly you can get someone out of the parking lot to get someone out of the parking lot to get someone out of the parking lot to free up their their space. We're free up their their space. We're free up their their space. We're actually building in more parking lot actually building in more parking lot actually building in more parking lot space cuz we want people to stay. I was space cuz we want people to stay. I was space cuz we want people to stay. I was going to say that's really expensive cuz going to say that's really expensive cuz going to say that's really expensive cuz you need acres more parking if you want you need acres more parking if you want you need acres more parking if you want people to linger. It is more expensive. people to linger. It is more expensive. people to linger. It is more expensive. So, you need more space if you want So, you need more space if you want So, you need more space if you want people to stay and do community even people to stay and do community even people to stay and do community even after the service. But, we think it's after the service. But, we think it's after the service. But, we think it's strategic on a couple different fronts. strategic on a couple different fronts. strategic on a couple different fronts. Mhm. Um, one is I think people are Mhm. Um, one is I think people are Mhm. Um, one is I think people are hungry for a community. I think they're hungry for a community. I think they're hungry for a community. I think they're really hungry for it. And again, not really hungry for it. And again, not really hungry for it. And again, not just during the week, but can you have just during the week, but can you have just during the week, but can you have it on the weekends? Um, and two, I think it on the weekends? Um, and two, I think it on the weekends? Um, and two, I think it's very evangelistic. I'll give you an it's very evangelistic. I'll give you an it's very evangelistic. I'll give you an example. if you and example. if you and example. if you and um you know if you you came to our um you know if you you came to our um you know if you you came to our church and you you lived in Phoenix and church and you you lived in Phoenix and church and you you lived in Phoenix and you have a a neighbor who doesn't know you have a a neighbor who doesn't know you have a a neighbor who doesn't know Jesus and you invited them to church. Jesus and you invited them to church. Jesus and you invited them to church. Well, you might walk in the auditorium Well, you might walk in the auditorium Well, you might walk in the auditorium hopefully experience, you know, music, a hopefully experience, you know, music, a hopefully experience, you know, music, a message that is is hopefully opening message that is is hopefully opening message that is is hopefully opening someone's heart to who Jesus is, but you someone's heart to who Jesus is, but you someone's heart to who Jesus is, but you might walk out and say, "Okay, see you might walk out and say, "Okay, see you might walk out and say, "Okay, see you later." Yeah. or hopefully maybe he's later." Yeah. or hopefully maybe he's later." Yeah. or hopefully maybe he's open to grabbing like a little bite. But open to grabbing like a little bite. But open to grabbing like a little bite. But what we want to do is create an what we want to do is create an what we want to do is create an environment where you can not only walk environment where you can not only walk environment where you can not only walk out of the service, but we'll feed you out of the service, but we'll feed you out of the service, but we'll feed you for free and we want you to stick around for free and we want you to stick around for free and we want you to stick around if you're, you know, if you have someone if you're, you know, if you have someone if you're, you know, if you have someone first time with you, we want to treat first time with you, we want to treat first time with you, we want to treat you and why don't you stick around and you and why don't you stick around and you and why don't you stick around and hang out and have a bite in a really hang out and have a bite in a really hang out and have a bite in a really comfortable environment. So, is the food comfortable environment. So, is the food comfortable environment. So, is the food free for first time people?

free for first time people? free for first time people? And then honestly, I think it was a $4 And then honestly, I think it was a $4 And then honestly, I think it was a $4 hamburger. Have I got that right? Cuz I hamburger. Have I got that right? Cuz I hamburger. Have I got that right? Cuz I had a burger. You and Jamie had pizza. had a burger. You and Jamie had pizza. had a burger. You and Jamie had pizza. Yeah. You're basically selling this at Yeah. You're basically selling this at Yeah. You're basically selling this at or below cost. We are. We lose we lose or below cost. We are. We lose we lose or below cost. We are. We lose we lose money on on our food because we're money on on our food because we're money on on our food because we're trying to create an environment where trying to create an environment where trying to create an environment where it's it's the best. It's almost like the it's it's the best. It's almost like the it's it's the best. It's almost like the $150 Costco hot dog kind of thing. It $150 Costco hot dog kind of thing. It $150 Costco hot dog kind of thing. It is. And the food's the food, you know, is. And the food's the food, you know, is. And the food's the food, you know, we we've invested a lot there. So, the we we've invested a lot there. So, the we we've invested a lot there. So, the food's good. Yes. The food is actually food's good. Yes. The food is actually food's good. Yes. The food is actually Yeah, it actually was good. And so, we Yeah, it actually was good. And so, we Yeah, it actually was good. And so, we actually want you to this is the best actually want you to this is the best actually want you to this is the best deal you can have for your family in the deal you can have for your family in the deal you can have for your family in the valley. So, if you're going to do lunch valley. So, if you're going to do lunch valley. So, if you're going to do lunch after church, just do it here. That's after church, just do it here. That's after church, just do it here. That's right. Is the philosophy. And you know, right. Is the philosophy. And you know, right. Is the philosophy. And you know, if if you haven't been there, you got to if if you haven't been there, you got to if if you haven't been there, you got to think about this. I mean, I haven't got think about this. I mean, I haven't got think about this. I mean, I haven't got your whole campus memorized, but it your whole campus memorized, but it your whole campus memorized, but it don't just think of a food court at a don't just think of a food court at a don't just think of a food court at a mall. Yes. No, not that at all. No, it mall. Yes. No, not that at all. No, it mall. Yes. No, not that at all. No, it was like lots of spread out benches and was like lots of spread out benches and was like lots of spread out benches and tables and umbrellas and places just to tables and umbrellas and places just to tables and umbrellas and places just to take your food and eat whatever kids to take your food and eat whatever kids to take your food and eat whatever kids to play. Grass for kids to play. Yeah, play. Grass for kids to play. Yeah, play. Grass for kids to play. Yeah, there were kids like it's almost like a there were kids like it's almost like a there were kids like it's almost like a it's sort of resort-like. And you guys it's sort of resort-like. And you guys it's sort of resort-like. And you guys have the climate working for you, not have the climate working for you, not have the climate working for you, not against you here in Phoenix, which is against you here in Phoenix, which is against you here in Phoenix, which is nice. But like um there were kids I left nice. But like um there were kids I left nice. But like um there were kids I left maybe 2 hours after the service and maybe 2 hours after the service and maybe 2 hours after the service and there were still young families kicking there were still young families kicking there were still young families kicking around a soccer ball throwing a football around a soccer ball throwing a football around a soccer ball throwing a football just easy like almost think pickup just easy like almost think pickup just easy like almost think pickup games. I don't know whether you have games. I don't know whether you have games. I don't know whether you have cornhole but it felt like that kind of cornhole but it felt like that kind of cornhole but it felt like that kind of vibe. You do sometimes. You do. Yeah.

vibe. You do sometimes. You do. Yeah. vibe. You do sometimes. You do. Yeah. Yeah. We do sometimes where you were Yeah. We do sometimes where you were Yeah. We do sometimes where you were just it wasn't serious but it was just just it wasn't serious but it was just just it wasn't serious but it was just like you want to throw a football you like you want to throw a football you like you want to throw a football you can do that. You want to kick a soccer can do that. You want to kick a soccer can do that. You want to kick a soccer ball you can do that. You want to just ball you can do that. You want to just ball you can do that. You want to just let your kids run around you can do let your kids run around you can do let your kids run around you can do that. So that's more acreage, more that. So that's more acreage, more that. So that's more acreage, more parking spots, selling food at a loss. parking spots, selling food at a loss. parking spots, selling food at a loss. Yeah. All to create community. But it's Yeah. All to create community. But it's Yeah. All to create community. But it's all to create community. And let's let's all to create community. And let's let's all to create community. And let's let's let's take it back to let's let's make let's take it back to let's let's make let's take it back to let's let's make it biblical. Let's make it spiritual for it biblical. Let's make it spiritual for it biblical. Let's make it spiritual for a sec. So in the book of Mark, a sec. So in the book of Mark, a sec. So in the book of Mark, almost all Jesus's interactions happen almost all Jesus's interactions happen almost all Jesus's interactions happen around a table. Yeah, you're right. around a table. Yeah, you're right. around a table. Yeah, you're right. Because something special happens. Because something special happens. Because something special happens. Again, we talk about all the time, not Again, we talk about all the time, not Again, we talk about all the time, not in a row. Things happen around tables in a row. Things happen around tables in a row. Things happen around tables and circles. And for sure, we want to pe and circles. And for sure, we want to pe and circles. And for sure, we want to pe we want people to have those we want people to have those we want people to have those environments during the week. We we we environments during the week. We we we environments during the week. We we we we invest so much in our small group we invest so much in our small group we invest so much in our small group ministry. It's like our number one goal ministry. It's like our number one goal ministry. It's like our number one goal for people to get into a small group. for people to get into a small group. for people to get into a small group. But why can't we create great community But why can't we create great community But why can't we create great community on the weekend as well around tables on the weekend as well around tables on the weekend as well around tables where deep spiritual conversations are where deep spiritual conversations are where deep spiritual conversations are happening not with just with unchurched happening not with just with unchurched happening not with just with unchurched people but think about a family when you people but think about a family when you people but think about a family when you guys sit down with your family after the guys sit down with your family after the guys sit down with your family after the service and say and just talk about you service and say and just talk about you service and say and just talk about you have these great conversations. I think have these great conversations. I think have these great conversations. I think there's something deeply spiritual about there's something deeply spiritual about there's something deeply spiritual about having table environments like that.

having table environments like that. having table environments like that. Yeah, Alpha would agree. I mean, you Yeah, Alpha would agree. I mean, you Yeah, Alpha would agree. I mean, you look at that the table fellowship is look at that the table fellowship is look at that the table fellowship is such a big part of what God is doing such a big part of what God is doing such a big part of what God is doing through Alpha Worldwide. The you know, through Alpha Worldwide. The you know, through Alpha Worldwide. The you know, the other the other trend that I become the other the other trend that I become the other the other trend that I become very cognizant of in the last year is if very cognizant of in the last year is if very cognizant of in the last year is if you read on architecture. Yes. Um the you read on architecture. Yes. Um the you read on architecture. Yes. Um the dining room isn't being built into a lot dining room isn't being built into a lot dining room isn't being built into a lot of new homes anymore. Um you look at of new homes anymore. Um you look at of new homes anymore. Um you look at what happened postco uh something like what happened postco uh something like what happened postco uh something like I'm going to get the stats slightly I'm going to get the stats slightly I'm going to get the stats slightly wrong, but like 74% of all quick service wrong, but like 74% of all quick service wrong, but like 74% of all quick service restaurants are now takeout. Um, so that restaurants are now takeout. Um, so that restaurants are now takeout. Um, so that dining aspect is missing. And you look dining aspect is missing. And you look dining aspect is missing. And you look at condos, how they're building them at condos, how they're building them at condos, how they're building them now. They're tight. I mean, you're lucky now. They're tight. I mean, you're lucky now. They're tight. I mean, you're lucky to have dinner for four, but dinner for to have dinner for four, but dinner for to have dinner for four, but dinner for six, dinner for eight. Like the ability, six, dinner for eight. Like the ability, six, dinner for eight. Like the ability, you know, the the '9s and 2000s where you know, the the '9s and 2000s where you know, the the '9s and 2000s where we're going to leverage your home, we're we're going to leverage your home, we're we're going to leverage your home, we're going to Airbnb your home for community. going to Airbnb your home for community. going to Airbnb your home for community. that I think particularly with that I think particularly with that I think particularly with millennials and Gen Z is becoming millennials and Gen Z is becoming millennials and Gen Z is becoming difficult because if they have a home difficult because if they have a home difficult because if they have a home they can share probably doesn't have a they can share probably doesn't have a they can share probably doesn't have a dining room probably isn't big enough to dining room probably isn't big enough to dining room probably isn't big enough to accommodate more than two or three accommodate more than two or three accommodate more than two or three friends. I don't know whether that's friends. I don't know whether that's friends. I don't know whether that's driving some of this but I I can see driving some of this but I I can see driving some of this but I I can see churches needing to be that third space.

churches needing to be that third space. churches needing to be that third space. Any thoughts on that? Yeah. I I think as Any thoughts on that? Yeah. I I think as Any thoughts on that? Yeah. I I think as a church, if there's anything you can do a church, if there's anything you can do a church, if there's anything you can do to try to create some of that community, to try to create some of that community, to try to create some of that community, I think it's big cuz I I think there's a I think it's big cuz I I think there's a I think it's big cuz I I think there's a I think there's a deep desire for it. I think there's a deep desire for it. I think there's a deep desire for it. Yeah. I think God, you know, God God Yeah. I think God, you know, God God Yeah. I think God, you know, God God hardwired us for for community. and the hardwired us for for community. and the hardwired us for for community. and the idea of of just coming on the weekends idea of of just coming on the weekends idea of of just coming on the weekends to just get content without the to just get content without the to just get content without the community, community, community, you know, I think we've really got to we you know, I think we've really got to we you know, I think we've really got to we really have to think about that and really have to think about that and really have to think about that and right because I can get that online and right because I can get that online and right because I can get that online and I can watch it live or on demand. You I can watch it live or on demand. You I can watch it live or on demand. You can you can and again I think you'll can you can and again I think you'll can you can and again I think you'll you'll feel something potentially you'll feel something potentially you'll feel something potentially missing. I I think but um yeah I think missing. I I think but um yeah I think missing. I I think but um yeah I think there's a lot to think I think there's a there's a lot to think I think there's a there's a lot to think I think there's a lot to think there as church leaders lot to think there as church leaders lot to think there as church leaders right now or what what what do we how right now or what what what do we how right now or what what what do we how are we creating community? Maybe that's are we creating community? Maybe that's are we creating community? Maybe that's the big question. Yeah. How are we the big question. Yeah. How are we the big question. Yeah. How are we creating community? creating community? creating community? That is a great question. any other That is a great question. any other That is a great question. any other shifts you've intentionally made in the shifts you've intentionally made in the shifts you've intentionally made in the last few years to respond to how last few years to respond to how last few years to respond to how everything's changing?

everything's changing? everything's changing? Um, you know, I think we, you know, we Um, you know, I think we, you know, we Um, you know, I think we, you know, we already talked about culture, how much already talked about culture, how much already talked about culture, how much we're investing a disproportionate we're investing a disproportionate we're investing a disproportionate amount of energy there. Um, I I'll ask amount of energy there. Um, I I'll ask amount of energy there. Um, I I'll ask you this point, Blank. Is video teaching you this point, Blank. Is video teaching you this point, Blank. Is video teaching going away? going away? going away? I get that question all the time. Yeah, I get that question all the time. Yeah, I get that question all the time. Yeah, I don't think it is. Yeah, tell me why. I don't think it is. Yeah, tell me why. I don't think it is. Yeah, tell me why. I I I think I I I think I I I think you know and I'll I can just use our our you know and I'll I can just use our our you know and I'll I can just use our our context you know I'll just use our context you know I'll just use our context you know I'll just use our context but I I think people are are not context but I I think people are are not context but I I think people are are not uncomfortable uncomfortable uncomfortable um engaging as long as it is a really um engaging as long as it is a really um engaging as long as it is a really engaging environment with with a engaging environment with with a engaging environment with with a community feel you know so when I look community feel you know so when I look community feel you know so when I look at all of our 18 campuses at all of our 18 campuses at all of our 18 campuses um actually and I'll put it this way um actually and I'll put it this way um actually and I'll put it this way even at our broadcast campus I only even at our broadcast campus I only even at our broadcast campus I only teach live two out of the five services teach live two out of the five services teach live two out of the five services or sorry six services because we have a or sorry six services because we have a or sorry six services because we have a Monday night as well. Yeah. So, so Monday night as well. Yeah. So, so Monday night as well. Yeah. So, so you're on video. Video is everywhere. you're on video. Video is everywhere. you're on video. Video is everywhere. Video is everywhere. But I think we need Video is everywhere. But I think we need Video is everywhere. But I think we need to Oh, I think one of the things I to Oh, I think one of the things I to Oh, I think one of the things I sometimes ask myself is at what point sometimes ask myself is at what point sometimes ask myself is at what point did we define church as a 30 minute did we define church as a 30 minute did we define church as a 30 minute message? Mhm.

message? Mhm. message? Mhm. churches. I mean, the eklesia is so much churches. I mean, the eklesia is so much churches. I mean, the eklesia is so much more than just a 30-minute message. So, more than just a 30-minute message. So, more than just a 30-minute message. So, if the 30-minute message is on video, if the 30-minute message is on video, if the 30-minute message is on video, and it's really dynamic, and it helps and it's really dynamic, and it helps and it's really dynamic, and it helps drive, you know, some movement and drive, you know, some movement and drive, you know, some movement and momentum we want in the church, let's momentum we want in the church, let's momentum we want in the church, let's just not let's let's help create a a just not let's let's help create a a just not let's let's help create a a better apologetic or theology for people better apologetic or theology for people better apologetic or theology for people that church is not just that 30 to 40 that church is not just that 30 to 40 that church is not just that 30 to 40 minute message in the weekend. It's not. minute message in the weekend. It's not. minute message in the weekend. It's not. There's so much more. and that being There's so much more. and that being There's so much more. and that being delivered by video to a lot of different delivered by video to a lot of different delivered by video to a lot of different campuses that we can keep it consistent. campuses that we can keep it consistent. campuses that we can keep it consistent. We're still seeing a lot of success in We're still seeing a lot of success in We're still seeing a lot of success in that. We don't we don't see that. We that. We don't we don't see that. We that. We don't we don't see that. We don't I don't have any indication that's don't I don't have any indication that's don't I don't have any indication that's going away. Now, I think we got to be going away. Now, I think we got to be going away. Now, I think we got to be students. We got to keep watching and students. We got to keep watching and students. We got to keep watching and seeing, but um we're we're not seeing seeing, but um we're we're not seeing seeing, but um we're we're not seeing that that go away right now. And even that that go away right now. And even that that go away right now. And even when I'm teaching live, you know, when when I'm teaching live, you know, when when I'm teaching live, you know, when I'm looking out um I'm looking out um I'm looking out um almost everyone in the audience has almost everyone in the audience has almost everyone in the audience has their head turned looking at the screen. their head turned looking at the screen. their head turned looking at the screen. Oh, it's a huge screen and you use it Oh, it's a huge screen and you use it Oh, it's a huge screen and you use it very effectively. It's really very effectively. It's really very effectively. It's really interesting to see how you use the uh interesting to see how you use the uh interesting to see how you use the uh the wall and then the side monitors. I the wall and then the side monitors. I the wall and then the side monitors. I think you're doing a a great job with think you're doing a a great job with think you're doing a a great job with that.

that. that. I know we have kind of a part two cuz I know we have kind of a part two cuz I know we have kind of a part two cuz your wife Jamie is going to join us. I your wife Jamie is going to join us. I your wife Jamie is going to join us. I do want to talk about radical do want to talk about radical do want to talk about radical generosity. Is that all right if we park generosity. Is that all right if we park generosity. Is that all right if we park that for the next conversation? Do you that for the next conversation? Do you that for the next conversation? Do you think do you think that'll fit in well think do you think that'll fit in well think do you think that'll fit in well with the the next conversation we're with the the next conversation we're with the the next conversation we're going to do? Because I I think that's going to do? Because I I think that's going to do? Because I I think that's something you both embody something you both embody something you both embody because I've heard you talk about it, because I've heard you talk about it, because I've heard you talk about it, but has also become a defining but has also become a defining but has also become a defining characteristic for CCV. Well, I would characteristic for CCV. Well, I would characteristic for CCV. Well, I would say if you wanted to get to the heart of say if you wanted to get to the heart of say if you wanted to get to the heart of who we are, like everything that drives who we are, like everything that drives who we are, like everything that drives us, that's actually what it is. Radical us, that's actually what it is. Radical us, that's actually what it is. Radical generosity. It is. Okay, we'll deal with generosity. It is. Okay, we'll deal with generosity. It is. Okay, we'll deal with that next time. Is there anything uh that next time. Is there anything uh that next time. Is there anything uh before we kind of pivot to the next before we kind of pivot to the next before we kind of pivot to the next episode episode episode uh that we didn't discuss that we need uh that we didn't discuss that we need uh that we didn't discuss that we need to discuss today? to discuss today? to discuss today? I don't think so. The only thing I think I don't think so. The only thing I think I don't think so. The only thing I think I'm I'd flip the tables on you. You can I'm I'd flip the tables on you. You can I'm I'd flip the tables on you. You can cut this out if you want to. Okay. I I cut this out if you want to. Okay. I I cut this out if you want to. Okay. I I I've been blown away listening to your I've been blown away listening to your I've been blown away listening to your podcast how amazing you are at being an podcast how amazing you are at being an podcast how amazing you are at being an interview. Tell the listeners some interview. Tell the listeners some interview. Tell the listeners some secrets of how to be a great interviewer secrets of how to be a great interviewer secrets of how to be a great interviewer because I want to know. Well, first of because I want to know. Well, first of because I want to know. Well, first of all, have a great guest. That really all, have a great guest. That really all, have a great guest. That really helps. Uh, I mean, I've got 23 helps. Uh, I mean, I've got 23 helps. Uh, I mean, I've got 23 questions. I apologize. I think I sent questions. I apologize. I think I sent questions. I apologize. I think I sent you 45 questions last week to prep and you 45 questions last week to prep and you 45 questions last week to prep and you prepped. I didn't look at my you prepped. I didn't look at my you prepped. I didn't look at my questions at all. I We just had a really questions at all. I We just had a really questions at all. I We just had a really great conversation. I don't know whether great conversation. I don't know whether great conversation. I don't know whether I ticked whatever boxes I created. Um, I I ticked whatever boxes I created. Um, I I ticked whatever boxes I created. Um, I will use my questions sometimes, but I will use my questions sometimes, but I will use my questions sometimes, but I just found we had a very natural

just found we had a very natural just found we had a very natural conversation that went in some really conversation that went in some really conversation that went in some really interesting directions. And I think interesting directions. And I think interesting directions. And I think honestly, Ashley, I sat in the back row honestly, Ashley, I sat in the back row honestly, Ashley, I sat in the back row for so long in my leadership as a young for so long in my leadership as a young for so long in my leadership as a young leader, wanting to raise my hand, leader, wanting to raise my hand, leader, wanting to raise my hand, wanting to ask the questions, not having wanting to ask the questions, not having wanting to ask the questions, not having access. So, I'm kind of like just access. So, I'm kind of like just access. So, I'm kind of like just following the curiosity trail, my following the curiosity trail, my following the curiosity trail, my curiosity trail, but also the curiosity curiosity trail, but also the curiosity curiosity trail, but also the curiosity trail of people watching and listening trail of people watching and listening trail of people watching and listening and trying to make sure that I tick the and trying to make sure that I tick the and trying to make sure that I tick the boxes of things I would want to know boxes of things I would want to know boxes of things I would want to know that I find interesting. I wish it was that I find interesting. I wish it was that I find interesting. I wish it was more complicated than that, but that's more complicated than that, but that's more complicated than that, but that's what I do. I think you're one of the what I do. I think you're one of the what I do. I think you're one of the best in the world. I think anybody best in the world. I think anybody best in the world. I think anybody wanting to grow in that should be wanting to grow in that should be wanting to grow in that should be listening to the Carrie New Hoff listening to the Carrie New Hoff listening to the Carrie New Hoff Leadership Podcast. Just take care, man. Leadership Podcast. Just take care, man. Leadership Podcast. Just take care, man. Well, thank you. Means a lot. Uh Ashley, Well, thank you. Means a lot. Uh Ashley, Well, thank you. Means a lot. Uh Ashley, people, you're on social media. Um, CCV, people, you're on social media. Um, CCV, people, you're on social media. Um, CCV, tell us some points that they can find tell us some points that they can find tell us some points that they can find you and CCV online. I mean, CCV.urch. you and CCV online. I mean, CCV.urch. you and CCV online. I mean, CCV.urch. Um, you know, we have we have CCV all Um, you know, we have we have CCV all Um, you know, we have we have CCV all over social as well. Um, I'm probably over social as well. Um, I'm probably over social as well. Um, I'm probably most active on Instagram if anybody most active on Instagram if anybody most active on Instagram if anybody wants to engage there. Yeah. Can I also wants to engage there. Yeah. Can I also wants to engage there. Yeah. Can I also say something cool? You you were kind say something cool? You you were kind say something cool? You you were kind enough to give me a golf shirt and a enough to give me a golf shirt and a enough to give me a golf shirt and a really nice one by the way, which you really nice one by the way, which you really nice one by the way, which you sell at almost discount, right? It's sell at almost discount, right? It's sell at almost discount, right? It's Travis Matthews. We just sell it at Travis Matthews. We just sell it at Travis Matthews. We just sell it at cost. You sell it at cost. So, I mean, cost. You sell it at cost. So, I mean, cost. You sell it at cost. So, I mean, at the place I was staying, they had at the place I was staying, they had at the place I was staying, they had Travis Matthews. We went shopping. There Travis Matthews. We went shopping. There Travis Matthews. We went shopping. There was a store. So, it's probably a third, was a store. So, it's probably a third, was a store. So, it's probably a third, 2/3 of what you would pay. But you said 2/3 of what you would pay. But you said 2/3 of what you would pay. But you said it was CCV wear. And I was looking for it was CCV wear. And I was looking for it was CCV wear. And I was looking for it as I was packing today. I'm like, it as I was packing today. I'm like, it as I was packing today. I'm like, where? Where? And then very subtly on where? Where? And then very subtly on where? Where? And then very subtly on the sleeve. Yeah. Says CCV almost to the

the sleeve. Yeah. Says CCV almost to the the sleeve. Yeah. Says CCV almost to the point where you'd have to know it was point where you'd have to know it was point where you'd have to know it was there to see it. Yeah. And same with there to see it. Yeah. And same with there to see it. Yeah. And same with your sign on the way in. You got a big your sign on the way in. You got a big your sign on the way in. You got a big like Easter like Easter like Easter because this is pre- Easter that we're because this is pre- Easter that we're because this is pre- Easter that we're filming this. Um, but it's pretty muted. filming this. Um, but it's pretty muted. filming this. Um, but it's pretty muted. Your branding is pretty muted. Is that Your branding is pretty muted. Is that Your branding is pretty muted. Is that intentional? I think on the shirts it intentional? I think on the shirts it intentional? I think on the shirts it is. Um, you know, we want to be careful is. Um, you know, we want to be careful is. Um, you know, we want to be careful how much that like screams. Um, but no, how much that like screams. Um, but no, how much that like screams. Um, but no, we we I think with our with our other we we I think with our with our other we we I think with our with our other branding, you know, we with the the CCV branding, you know, we with the the CCV branding, you know, we with the the CCV symbol, if you've ever seen it, is symbol, if you've ever seen it, is symbol, if you've ever seen it, is really unique. It is. It's cool. And we really unique. It is. It's cool. And we really unique. It is. It's cool. And we like that. We like that. Yeah, it is. like that. We like that. Yeah, it is. like that. We like that. Yeah, it is. It's people. It's all about people and It's people. It's all about people and It's people. It's all about people and it's um we we like having that out and it's um we we like having that out and it's um we we like having that out and about. I think it just drives some about. I think it just drives some about. I think it just drives some curiosity with people like what is that? curiosity with people like what is that? curiosity with people like what is that? Yeah. And you know then they can say oh Yeah. And you know then they can say oh Yeah. And you know then they can say oh that that's a church. Yeah. That's cool. that that's a church. Yeah. That's cool. that that's a church. Yeah. That's cool. Anyway, well people track with you Anyway, well people track with you Anyway, well people track with you online. Thanks. And then make sure online. Thanks. And then make sure online. Thanks. And then make sure you're watching listening cuz we're you're watching listening cuz we're you're watching listening cuz we're going to do another episode. The very going to do another episode. The very going to do another episode. The very next one that shows up on your feed is next one that shows up on your feed is next one that shows up on your feed is going to be Ashley part two with his going to be Ashley part two with his going to be Ashley part two with his amazing wife Jamie. And we're going to amazing wife Jamie. And we're going to amazing wife Jamie. And we're going to talk about being couples. They both talk about being couples. They both talk about being couples. They both worked at Intel. Um, and more of the worked at Intel. Um, and more of the worked at Intel. Um, and more of the story here.