Gen Z's Spiritual Awakening

We had this basketball player who was We had this basketball player who was kind of bad news. He ends up giving his kind of bad news. He ends up giving his kind of bad news. He ends up giving his life to the Lord life to the Lord life to the Lord and walking out of the room and running and walking out of the room and running and walking out of the room and running into a man in a wheelchair with some into a man in a wheelchair with some into a man in a wheelchair with some tumors that were that you could see tumors that were that you could see tumors that were that you could see around his face. around his face. around his face. And this basketball player grabbed he And this basketball player grabbed he And this basketball player grabbed he tells this story. He's like, "I grabbed tells this story. He's like, "I grabbed tells this story. He's like, "I grabbed my girlfriend and I had seen it my girlfriend and I had seen it my girlfriend and I had seen it happening and now I was a believer so I happening and now I was a believer so I happening and now I was a believer so I can pray for him." can pray for him." can pray for him." And he prayed for this guy and this guy And he prayed for this guy and this guy And he prayed for this guy and this guy was healed was healed was healed and like visibly his face is different. and like visibly his face is different. and like visibly his face is different. Visibly tumors disappear. He's out of Visibly tumors disappear. He's out of Visibly tumors disappear. He's out of his wheelchair. his wheelchair. his wheelchair. And this is a basketball player who' And this is a basketball player who' And this is a basketball player who' known Jesus for 30 minutes. That guy did known Jesus for 30 minutes. That guy did known Jesus for 30 minutes. That guy did not know better. not know better. not know better. What's it like to be inside the Aspbury What's it like to be inside the Aspbury What's it like to be inside the Aspbury outpouring of 2023? Well, I take you outpouring of 2023? Well, I take you outpouring of 2023? Well, I take you inside exactly what happened with the inside exactly what happened with the inside exactly what happened with the guy who preached the sermon that kicked guy who preached the sermon that kicked guy who preached the sermon that kicked it all off. He said it was a stinker. it all off. He said it was a stinker. it all off. He said it was a stinker. Uh, but it sparked revival, a global Uh, but it sparked revival, a global Uh, but it sparked revival, a global phenomena that saw over a 100,000 phenomena that saw over a 100,000 phenomena that saw over a 100,000 leaders travel from around the world to leaders travel from around the world to leaders travel from around the world to be in on what God is doing. Kind of be in on what God is doing. Kind of be in on what God is doing. Kind of sparked the Gen Z revival we're seeing.

sparked the Gen Z revival we're seeing. sparked the Gen Z revival we're seeing. Hey, welcome to the Carrie New Hoff Hey, welcome to the Carrie New Hoff Hey, welcome to the Carrie New Hoff leadership podcast on YouTube. So glad leadership podcast on YouTube. So glad leadership podcast on YouTube. So glad you joined us today. This kicks off part you joined us today. This kicks off part you joined us today. This kicks off part one of our five-part revival series. one of our five-part revival series. one of our five-part revival series. There is something in the air right now, There is something in the air right now, There is something in the air right now, something God is doing that is really something God is doing that is really something God is doing that is really noteworthy. We see trends changing in noteworthy. We see trends changing in noteworthy. We see trends changing in real time and they're hopeful. Gen Z is real time and they're hopeful. Gen Z is real time and they're hopeful. Gen Z is more open than ever. A lot of young Gen more open than ever. A lot of young Gen more open than ever. A lot of young Gen Z men are coming to faith. It's Z men are coming to faith. It's Z men are coming to faith. It's happening across America. It's happening happening across America. It's happening happening across America. It's happening in the UK. It's happening around the in the UK. It's happening around the in the UK. It's happening around the world. What is going on? That's the world. What is going on? That's the world. What is going on? That's the purpose of this five-part series. So, if purpose of this five-part series. So, if purpose of this five-part series. So, if you're new to my YouTube channel, hit you're new to my YouTube channel, hit you're new to my YouTube channel, hit the subscribe button because you're not the subscribe button because you're not the subscribe button because you're not going to want to miss. We got John going to want to miss. We got John going to want to miss. We got John Tyson, Nikki Gumble, Al Gordon, uh Luke Tyson, Nikki Gumble, Al Gordon, uh Luke Tyson, Nikki Gumble, Al Gordon, uh Luke Lef Fever, Steven Foster, we've got to Lef Fever, Steven Foster, we've got to Lef Fever, Steven Foster, we've got to Andy Wood, lead pastor of Saddleback, Andy Wood, lead pastor of Saddleback, Andy Wood, lead pastor of Saddleback, and JP Plutoa all in on this series. and and JP Plutoa all in on this series. and and JP Plutoa all in on this series. and they're going to talk about what they're they're going to talk about what they're they're going to talk about what they're seeing about the revival, what you can seeing about the revival, what you can seeing about the revival, what you can learn as a church leader in what God learn as a church leader in what God learn as a church leader in what God might want to do in your community or in might want to do in your community or in might want to do in your community or in your church. So, I'm really excited for your church. So, I'm really excited for your church. So, I'm really excited for this series. We're so glad you joined this series. We're so glad you joined this series. We're so glad you joined us. So, like, subscribe, leave a comment us. So, like, subscribe, leave a comment us. So, like, subscribe, leave a comment to join the conversation. Also, we have to join the conversation. Also, we have to join the conversation. Also, we have a real dialogue happening in the Art of a real dialogue happening in the Art of a real dialogue happening in the Art of Leadership Academy. That's my free Leadership Academy. That's my free Leadership Academy. That's my free program for church leaders. We got over program for church leaders. We got over program for church leaders. We got over 7 8,000 leaders in there right now.

7 8,000 leaders in there right now. 7 8,000 leaders in there right now. pastors just like you, trollfree pastors just like you, trollfree pastors just like you, trollfree environment, and uh the quality of the environment, and uh the quality of the environment, and uh the quality of the conversation is amazing. So, click the conversation is amazing. So, click the conversation is amazing. So, click the link in the description or go to link in the description or go to link in the description or go to kerryneuhoff.com/showes kerryneuhoff.com/showes kerryneuhoff.com/showes to get in on that. Would love to have to get in on that. Would love to have to get in on that. Would love to have you join. Now, before we get into my you join. Now, before we get into my you join. Now, before we get into my interview with Zach, a word from today's interview with Zach, a word from today's interview with Zach, a word from today's partners and then we'll dive into the partners and then we'll dive into the partners and then we'll dive into the conversation. Today's episode is brought conversation. Today's episode is brought conversation. Today's episode is brought to you by my art of leadership academy. to you by my art of leadership academy. to you by my art of leadership academy. So, in this episode, Zach shares the So, in this episode, Zach shares the So, in this episode, Zach shares the insight that humility is giving both insight that humility is giving both insight that humility is giving both successes and failures of every sermon successes and failures of every sermon successes and failures of every sermon back to God. But here's the tension. back to God. But here's the tension. back to God. But here's the tension. Just because God brings the power Just because God brings the power Just because God brings the power doesn't mean we can skip the prep, doesn't mean we can skip the prep, doesn't mean we can skip the prep, right? You still have to study. You right? You still have to study. You right? You still have to study. You still got to pray. And God is as present still got to pray. And God is as present still got to pray. And God is as present in the preparation as he is in anything in the preparation as he is in anything in the preparation as he is in anything else. So, you got to show up ready to else. So, you got to show up ready to else. So, you got to show up ready to give your absolute best because give your absolute best because give your absolute best because ultimately God is choosing to work ultimately God is choosing to work ultimately God is choosing to work through you. Well, inside the Art of through you. Well, inside the Art of through you. Well, inside the Art of Leadership Academy, there are a lot of Leadership Academy, there are a lot of Leadership Academy, there are a lot of resources to help you prepare and preach resources to help you prepare and preach resources to help you prepare and preach better sermons, articles, videos, my better sermons, articles, videos, my better sermons, articles, videos, my preaching cheat sheet, and my course preaching cheat sheet, and my course preaching cheat sheet, and my course with Mark Clark on preaching, the art of with Mark Clark on preaching, the art of with Mark Clark on preaching, the art of preaching, which over 3500 preachers preaching, which over 3500 preachers preaching, which over 3500 preachers have used to hone their gifts as a have used to hone their gifts as a have used to hone their gifts as a preacher. We teach you things like how preacher. We teach you things like how preacher. We teach you things like how to speak to unchurched people, um how to to speak to unchurched people, um how to to speak to unchurched people, um how to do the sermon prep process, how to do the sermon prep process, how to do the sermon prep process, how to deliver a talk without using notes, how deliver a talk without using notes, how deliver a talk without using notes, how to create a clear and compelling bottom to create a clear and compelling bottom to create a clear and compelling bottom line. Now, I know it's more mysterious line. Now, I know it's more mysterious line. Now, I know it's more mysterious than that, but hey, when you improve than that, but hey, when you improve than that, but hey, when you improve your skill set, everything gets better.

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20 at parkhill.com/faith. 20 at parkhill.com/faith. That's parkhill.com/faith. That's parkhill.com/faith. That's parkhill.com/faith. Well, Zach, welcome to the podcast. Well, Zach, welcome to the podcast. Well, Zach, welcome to the podcast. Yeah, honored to be here, brother. Yeah, honored to be here, brother. Yeah, honored to be here, brother. Yeah. So, we're focusing on revival over Yeah. So, we're focusing on revival over Yeah. So, we're focusing on revival over these next few episodes, and you were these next few episodes, and you were these next few episodes, and you were near the center of what became a global near the center of what became a global near the center of what became a global spiritual phenomena, the Asbury spiritual phenomena, the Asbury spiritual phenomena, the Asbury outpouring back in February of 2023. outpouring back in February of 2023. outpouring back in February of 2023. I got a lot of time. Tell us the story. I got a lot of time. Tell us the story. I got a lot of time. Tell us the story. I mean, I think most of us have little I mean, I think most of us have little I mean, I think most of us have little pieces of it or clips of it, but if pieces of it or clips of it, but if pieces of it or clips of it, but if you're going to narrate, like maybe even you're going to narrate, like maybe even you're going to narrate, like maybe even go back to the day before, week before, go back to the day before, week before, go back to the day before, week before, whatever. Take us through the story and whatever. Take us through the story and whatever. Take us through the story and and how you experienced it and what and how you experienced it and what and how you experienced it and what happened. happened. happened. Yeah. So, Asbury University, I think it Yeah. So, Asbury University, I think it Yeah. So, Asbury University, I think it is a unique place because it's been host is a unique place because it's been host is a unique place because it's been host of multiple unique encounters with the of multiple unique encounters with the of multiple unique encounters with the Lord. Lord. Lord. um all the way back to one of their um all the way back to one of their um all the way back to one of their first uh stories is when E. Stanley first uh stories is when E. Stanley first uh stories is when E. Stanley Jones like a a heroic missionary in the Jones like a a heroic missionary in the Jones like a a heroic missionary in the Christian faith was a student and Christian faith was a student and Christian faith was a student and encountered the spirit in like 1905 in a encountered the spirit in like 1905 in a encountered the spirit in like 1905 in a unique outpouring of the spirit in he unique outpouring of the spirit in he unique outpouring of the spirit in he was auditorium and then you zip zip to was auditorium and then you zip zip to was auditorium and then you zip zip to 1970s 1970s 1970s like right before the Jesus movement like right before the Jesus movement like right before the Jesus movement there was an outpouring of God's spirit there was an outpouring of God's spirit there was an outpouring of God's spirit and um even some of the people connected and um even some of the people connected and um even some of the people connected to the Jesus movement testified to being to the Jesus movement testified to being to the Jesus movement testified to being impacted by students that had been sent impacted by students that had been sent impacted by students that had been sent from this university in Kentucky called from this university in Kentucky called from this university in Kentucky called Asbury.

Asbury. Asbury. And what was interesting was I've been a And what was interesting was I've been a And what was interesting was I've been a college pastor at As in the area, not at college pastor at As in the area, not at college pastor at As in the area, not at Asbury, but in the area and have kind of Asbury, but in the area and have kind of Asbury, but in the area and have kind of seen revival as like this idol at seen revival as like this idol at seen revival as like this idol at Asbury. Like we're always looking back Asbury. Like we're always looking back Asbury. Like we're always looking back at like it's like a guy who's like one at like it's like a guy who's like one at like it's like a guy who's like one state in high school and still talks state in high school and still talks state in high school and still talks about it. You're like, about it. You're like, about it. You're like, "Yeah, except he's 57." "Yeah, except he's 57." "Yeah, except he's 57." Exactly. Yeah. You're like, "You're Exactly. Yeah. You're like, "You're Exactly. Yeah. You're like, "You're working in a gas station wearing your working in a gas station wearing your working in a gas station wearing your Letterman's jacket. It's time to move Letterman's jacket. It's time to move Letterman's jacket. It's time to move on." So, um, so I kind of always been on." So, um, so I kind of always been on." So, um, so I kind of always been this guy like put your head down, this guy like put your head down, this guy like put your head down, disciple, disciple, disciple, lead people to Jesus, you know. So, I'm lead people to Jesus, you know. So, I'm lead people to Jesus, you know. So, I'm not a revival junkie like some of the not a revival junkie like some of the not a revival junkie like some of the people that you probably have met with. people that you probably have met with. people that you probably have met with. Um, Um, Um, but it is a community that has seen God but it is a community that has seen God but it is a community that has seen God uniquely move uniquely move uniquely move and a community that contends for God to and a community that contends for God to and a community that contends for God to move like that again. move like that again. move like that again. Right. Right. There's professors that Right. Right. There's professors that Right. Right. There's professors that were students during the 1970 revival were students during the 1970 revival were students during the 1970 revival um that now are professors at the um that now are professors at the um that now are professors at the seminary of the university. Like that seminary of the university. Like that seminary of the university. Like that changes something.

changes something. changes something. So you have that context So you have that context So you have that context plus you have the squeeze of racial plus you have the squeeze of racial plus you have the squeeze of racial tensions, the squeeze of COVID, the tensions, the squeeze of COVID, the tensions, the squeeze of COVID, the squeeze of being a liberal arts squeeze of being a liberal arts squeeze of being a liberal arts Christian college. Christian college. Christian college. So it kind of felt primed in some ways. So it kind of felt primed in some ways. So it kind of felt primed in some ways. And in in my own life, And in in my own life, And in in my own life, um I had been in a very difficult um I had been in a very difficult um I had been in a very difficult season. My wife and I had just lost our season. My wife and I had just lost our season. My wife and I had just lost our middle daughter uh only a couple almost middle daughter uh only a couple almost middle daughter uh only a couple almost uh not even two years before this uh not even two years before this uh not even two years before this encounter. encounter. encounter. I'm so sorry. How old was she, Zach? I'm so sorry. How old was she, Zach? I'm so sorry. How old was she, Zach? We just had a little bit of time with We just had a little bit of time with We just had a little bit of time with her. Um but we got to spend about a day her. Um but we got to spend about a day her. Um but we got to spend about a day with her before she went to be with the with her before she went to be with the with her before she went to be with the Lord. So sorry, Lord. So sorry, Lord. So sorry, but um did not expect to only have a day but um did not expect to only have a day but um did not expect to only have a day of course, but um of course, but um of course, but um so we're still in grief. So God's so we're still in grief. So God's so we're still in grief. So God's forming in Kristen and I and forming in Kristen and I and forming in Kristen and I and crystallizing some things in us and the crystallizing some things in us and the crystallizing some things in us and the university is experiencing that. And you university is experiencing that. And you university is experiencing that. And you know my story, I'm about an hour away or know my story, I'm about an hour away or know my story, I'm about an hour away or three hours away doing ministry the three hours away doing ministry the three hours away doing ministry the night before.

night before. night before. Um while there's a unique experience on Um while there's a unique experience on Um while there's a unique experience on Azra's campus facilitated by the Azra's campus facilitated by the Azra's campus facilitated by the president and a pastor called a president and a pastor called a president and a pastor called a witnessing circle and this witnessing witnessing circle and this witnessing witnessing circle and this witnessing circle was circle was circle was a act of racial reconciliation on campus a act of racial reconciliation on campus a act of racial reconciliation on campus that there was a pastor that came and that there was a pastor that came and that there was a pastor that came and read the deeds of slave owners in read the deeds of slave owners in read the deeds of slave owners in Wilmore, Kentucky. Wilmore, Kentucky. Wilmore, Kentucky. And there was this moment of asking for And there was this moment of asking for And there was this moment of asking for forgiveness, receiving forgiveness. to forgiveness, receiving forgiveness. to forgiveness, receiving forgiveness. to end it in this moment of worship and the end it in this moment of worship and the end it in this moment of worship and the spirit's presence is very uniquely spirit's presence is very uniquely spirit's presence is very uniquely there. That was the night before there. That was the night before there. That was the night before February 8th everyone knows about the February 8th everyone knows about the February 8th everyone knows about the night before there's this unbelievably night before there's this unbelievably night before there's this unbelievably gorgeous step towards reconciliation on gorgeous step towards reconciliation on gorgeous step towards reconciliation on campus that then flowed into gospel campus that then flowed into gospel campus that then flowed into gospel choir practicing choir practicing choir practicing in Hughes auditorium until early hours in Hughes auditorium until early hours in Hughes auditorium until early hours of the night before chapel the next day. of the night before chapel the next day. of the night before chapel the next day. So I come as a guest preacher and So I come as a guest preacher and So I come as a guest preacher and there's already something that is there's already something that is there's already something that is stirring on campus stirring on campus stirring on campus and and and like that chapel service is a mandatory like that chapel service is a mandatory like that chapel service is a mandatory chapel service of about a thousand chapel service of about a thousand chapel service of about a thousand students and I preach and you get some students and I preach and you get some students and I preach and you get some laughs and you get some whatever and I laughs and you get some whatever and I laughs and you get some whatever and I didn't feel a unique wind of the spirit didn't feel a unique wind of the spirit didn't feel a unique wind of the spirit as I was preaching. In fact, as I was preaching. In fact, as I was preaching. In fact, what was the music like prior to your what was the music like prior to your what was the music like prior to your sermon? It was the gospel choir which sermon? It was the gospel choir which sermon? It was the gospel choir which was beautiful was beautiful was beautiful and and and fine but you've been you've been to a fine but you've been you've been to a fine but you've been you've been to a million of those orund of those. Yeah.

million of those orund of those. Yeah. million of those orund of those. Yeah. If you've seen Q's auditorium it's not If you've seen Q's auditorium it's not If you've seen Q's auditorium it's not you know the state of the art you know the state of the art you know the state of the art kind of you know the chairs some of them kind of you know the chairs some of them kind of you know the chairs some of them will give you splinters. They're old will give you splinters. They're old will give you splinters. They're old creaky you know and people have their creaky you know and people have their creaky you know and people have their hoods up and airpods in you know like it hoods up and airpods in you know like it hoods up and airpods in you know like it is is is because it's mandatory chapel. We all because it's mandatory chapel. We all because it's mandatory chapel. We all know what that's like. Yeah. know what that's like. Yeah. know what that's like. Yeah. Yeah. So I run out of time. Click Yeah. So I run out of time. Click Yeah. So I run out of time. Click through my last like six or seven slides through my last like six or seven slides through my last like six or seven slides and point to the last slide of we have and point to the last slide of we have and point to the last slide of we have to we were talking about authentic love. to we were talking about authentic love. to we were talking about authentic love. We have to experience authentic love of We have to experience authentic love of We have to experience authentic love of God vertically before we can God vertically before we can God vertically before we can authentically love horizontally. I get authentically love horizontally. I get authentically love horizontally. I get off stage after praying. I text my wife off stage after praying. I text my wife off stage after praying. I text my wife that it didn't go very well. And then I that it didn't go very well. And then I that it didn't go very well. And then I would be home soon for a nap. That was would be home soon for a nap. That was would be home soon for a nap. That was exhausting. And like 40 minutes later, I exhausting. And like 40 minutes later, I exhausting. And like 40 minutes later, I send her a video of the 19 students that send her a video of the 19 students that send her a video of the 19 students that stayed. stayed. stayed. So 19 stayed. Not not a thousand, not So 19 stayed. Not not a thousand, not So 19 stayed. Not not a thousand, not 100, 19. So you're at like 1.9% of the 100, 19. So you're at like 1.9% of the 100, 19. So you're at like 1.9% of the thousand students thousand students thousand students stayed behind. Okay.

stayed behind. Okay. stayed behind. Okay. And they kind of all move towards the And they kind of all move towards the And they kind of all move towards the front towards the altar. And I'm not front towards the altar. And I'm not front towards the altar. And I'm not even at that point like excited about even at that point like excited about even at that point like excited about what's going I'm like ready to go home what's going I'm like ready to go home what's going I'm like ready to go home to take a nap. And to take a nap. And to take a nap. And why were you still in the room? why were you still in the room? why were you still in the room? Um I told them that I would stay Um I told them that I would stay Um I told them that I would stay not even a spiritual reason. I told you not even a spiritual reason. I told you not even a spiritual reason. I told you know I think I've over reps have have know I think I've over reps have have know I think I've over reps have have seen that Gen Z will respond and could seen that Gen Z will respond and could seen that Gen Z will respond and could use time to pray and process with use time to pray and process with use time to pray and process with someone. But someone. But someone. But ultimately was I had coffee at 1:30 and ultimately was I had coffee at 1:30 and ultimately was I had coffee at 1:30 and I told them I would stay if they wanted I told them I would stay if they wanted I told them I would stay if they wanted until 1:30. until 1:30. until 1:30. And then 1:30 comes along and I tell And then 1:30 comes along and I tell And then 1:30 comes along and I tell that person, "Hey, you should come to that person, "Hey, you should come to that person, "Hey, you should come to Asbury and bring your Torah cuz God's Asbury and bring your Torah cuz God's Asbury and bring your Torah cuz God's doing something uniquely." doing something uniquely." doing something uniquely." And then about 4 hours later, I voice And then about 4 hours later, I voice And then about 4 hours later, I voice them on my wife weeping them on my wife weeping them on my wife weeping to get the girls out of daycare and get to get the girls out of daycare and get to get the girls out of daycare and get them to Asbury cuz God seemingly is them to Asbury cuz God seemingly is them to Asbury cuz God seemingly is in the room in a way I've never in the room in a way I've never in the room in a way I've never experienced before. And experienced before. And experienced before. And within about 3 days, it had been I I within about 3 days, it had been I I within about 3 days, it had been I I believe at the time the fastest hashtag believe at the time the fastest hashtag believe at the time the fastest hashtag to 1 billion.

to 1 billion. to 1 billion. Wow. Wow. Wow. And we started seeing international And we started seeing international And we started seeing international guests within about three days. guests within about three days. guests within about three days. And then, And then, And then, you know, 16 days later, you know, 16 days later, you know, 16 days later, um, you know, a conservative guess is um, you know, a conservative guess is um, you know, a conservative guess is around 80,000 people had convened around 80,000 people had convened around 80,000 people had convened spontaneously. spontaneously. spontaneously. 1,800 volunteers had volunteered 1,800 volunteers had volunteered 1,800 volunteers had volunteered spontaneously. spontaneously. spontaneously. We never went hungry. We never went We never went hungry. We never went We never went hungry. We never went without portaotties. without portaotties. without portaotties. And uh and you know the last night God And uh and you know the last night God And uh and you know the last night God had already orchestrated collegiate day had already orchestrated collegiate day had already orchestrated collegiate day of prayer to be on campus two years of prayer to be on campus two years of prayer to be on campus two years prior. They signed contracts prior. They signed contracts prior. They signed contracts and because of that we had the means to and because of that we had the means to and because of that we had the means to broadcast the last evening broadcast the last evening broadcast the last evening and close to 5 million people watched as and close to 5 million people watched as and close to 5 million people watched as we catalyzed what God had started at we catalyzed what God had started at we catalyzed what God had started at Asbury. and we grieved and rested and Asbury. and we grieved and rested and Asbury. and we grieved and rested and and then kind of commissioned about four and then kind of commissioned about four and then kind of commissioned about four of us from Asbury to travel and tell the of us from Asbury to travel and tell the of us from Asbury to travel and tell the stories and encourage and I get to be stories and encourage and I get to be stories and encourage and I get to be one of them.

one of them. one of them. And um And um And um so so so so I want to I want to rewind because I so I want to I want to rewind because I so I want to I want to rewind because I think there are pastors who kind of long think there are pastors who kind of long think there are pastors who kind of long for it after Asbury. you know, you were for it after Asbury. you know, you were for it after Asbury. you know, you were mentioning that uh there's definitely a mentioning that uh there's definitely a mentioning that uh there's definitely a presence on campus where some of the presence on campus where some of the presence on campus where some of the people who remember can be maybe a people who remember can be maybe a people who remember can be maybe a little hyper obsessed with it or little hyper obsessed with it or little hyper obsessed with it or living in the past. uh you know I've living in the past. uh you know I've living in the past. uh you know I've picked up online with some of the picked up online with some of the picked up online with some of the dialogue that people are really longing dialogue that people are really longing dialogue that people are really longing for it and which is good and maybe even for it and which is good and maybe even for it and which is good and maybe even trying to manufacture it or like hey was trying to manufacture it or like hey was trying to manufacture it or like hey was that revival uh you know there are those that revival uh you know there are those that revival uh you know there are those those limited little tenants and I'm not those limited little tenants and I'm not those limited little tenants and I'm not a cynic like I hey hey god is moving a cynic like I hey hey god is moving a cynic like I hey hey god is moving right now and that was a really powerful right now and that was a really powerful right now and that was a really powerful thing and I remember writing a post thing and I remember writing a post thing and I remember writing a post because people were is this real and because people were is this real and because people were is this real and it's like let's just assume it's real it's like let's just assume it's real it's like let's just assume it's real okay and so I'm I'm not coming at this okay and so I'm I'm not coming at this okay and so I'm I'm not coming at this critically or cynically but what I want critically or cynically but what I want critically or cynically but what I want to do and I haven't studied revival like to do and I haven't studied revival like to do and I haven't studied revival like others have studied revival but I want others have studied revival but I want others have studied revival but I want to know you know as you were preparing to know you know as you were preparing to know you know as you were preparing your message was it just one of the many your message was it just one of the many your message was it just one of the many messages you were going to give that messages you were going to give that messages you were going to give that year like was there anything special you year like was there anything special you year like was there anything special you felt in the prep anything different you felt in the prep anything different you felt in the prep anything different you did you mentioned the racial did you mentioned the racial did you mentioned the racial reconciliation that happened the night reconciliation that happened the night reconciliation that happened the night before which you weren't a part of before which you weren't a part of before which you weren't a part of because you were somewhere else that was because you were somewhere else that was because you were somewhere else that was special but like in your prep what was special but like in your prep what was special but like in your prep what was different different different yeah I I think to be really honest and yeah I I think to be really honest and yeah I I think to be really honest and it's actually become quite a bit of our it's actually become quite a bit of our it's actually become quite a bit of our ministry of my personal testimony over ministry of my personal testimony over ministry of my personal testimony over the last two years is I didn't feel

the last two years is I didn't feel the last two years is I didn't feel anything special. anything special. anything special. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And And And yeah, yeah, yeah, I I I remember feeling a moment on stage remember feeling a moment on stage remember feeling a moment on stage that I felt directed to specifically that I felt directed to specifically that I felt directed to specifically address inauthentic love. And I think address inauthentic love. And I think address inauthentic love. And I think Jen Gen Z, the people in the room have Jen Gen Z, the people in the room have Jen Gen Z, the people in the room have experienced an immense amount of experienced an immense amount of experienced an immense amount of inauthentic love in the context of inauthentic love in the context of inauthentic love in the context of authentic love. I remember feeling the authentic love. I remember feeling the authentic love. I remember feeling the spirit direct me there in a way that I spirit direct me there in a way that I spirit direct me there in a way that I normally wouldn't. But the passage that normally wouldn't. But the passage that normally wouldn't. But the passage that I've been clinging to that I would I've been clinging to that I would I've been clinging to that I would encourage anyone who does preach and is encourage anyone who does preach and is encourage anyone who does preach and is longing longing longing for to see a movement of God is this for to see a movement of God is this for to see a movement of God is this passage from Paul when he writes to the passage from Paul when he writes to the passage from Paul when he writes to the Corinthians. 1 Corinthians 2. He says, Corinthians. 1 Corinthians 2. He says, Corinthians. 1 Corinthians 2. He says, "When I came to you, I didn't come with "When I came to you, I didn't come with "When I came to you, I didn't come with sophistication of speech, worldly sophistication of speech, worldly sophistication of speech, worldly wisdom, forgetting everything besides wisdom, forgetting everything besides wisdom, forgetting everything besides Christ crucified with fear, trembling, Christ crucified with fear, trembling, Christ crucified with fear, trembling, and weakness, so there would be a and weakness, so there would be a and weakness, so there would be a demonstration of the spirit of God and demonstration of the spirit of God and demonstration of the spirit of God and not in the sophistication of my speech, not in the sophistication of my speech, not in the sophistication of my speech, so that you would have confidence in God so that you would have confidence in God so that you would have confidence in God and its power and not in man." And I and its power and not in man." And I and its power and not in man." And I think I think God is doing something.

think I think God is doing something. think I think God is doing something. Not that we would dumb down our Not that we would dumb down our Not that we would dumb down our preparation or not be diligent, preparation or not be diligent, preparation or not be diligent, but I think we're starting to see but I think we're starting to see but I think we're starting to see when we, you know, approach something when we, you know, approach something when we, you know, approach something begging for a demonstration of God's begging for a demonstration of God's begging for a demonstration of God's spirit and not a demonstration of my spirit and not a demonstration of my spirit and not a demonstration of my sophistication of speech and worldly sophistication of speech and worldly sophistication of speech and worldly wisdom that God is uniquely showing up. wisdom that God is uniquely showing up. wisdom that God is uniquely showing up. And And And uh but God will do whatever he wants, uh but God will do whatever he wants, uh but God will do whatever he wants, wherever he wants, with whoever he wherever he wants, with whoever he wherever he wants, with whoever he wants. And uh so I don't want to lay wants. And uh so I don't want to lay wants. And uh so I don't want to lay claim to that. I have some secret sauce claim to that. I have some secret sauce claim to that. I have some secret sauce in my prep or something. in my prep or something. in my prep or something. Right. So that No, but and I mean that Right. So that No, but and I mean that Right. So that No, but and I mean that is a beautiful verse, a great verse. I'm is a beautiful verse, a great verse. I'm is a beautiful verse, a great verse. I'm sure a lot of the preachers listening sure a lot of the preachers listening sure a lot of the preachers listening preach that verse, but you didn't was preach that verse, but you didn't was preach that verse, but you didn't was that your text that day? Like you didn't that your text that day? Like you didn't that your text that day? Like you didn't go in go in go in thinking anything special was going to thinking anything special was going to thinking anything special was going to happen. It was just there's never just happen. It was just there's never just happen. It was just there's never just another message, but it was just another another message, but it was just another another message, but it was just another message, right? message, right? message, right? Yeah. I was preaching on Romans 12 9-21. Yeah. I was preaching on Romans 12 9-21. Yeah. I was preaching on Romans 12 9-21. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that text. Think I Yeah. Yeah. I love that text. Think I Yeah. Yeah. I love that text. Think I could spend the rest of my life in could spend the rest of my life in could spend the rest of my life in Romans chapter 12 and still not master Romans chapter 12 and still not master Romans chapter 12 and still not master it. Okay. You said you had a little bit it. Okay. You said you had a little bit it. Okay. You said you had a little bit of a inclination that you needed to of a inclination that you needed to of a inclination that you needed to speak about inauthentic love, but that speak about inauthentic love, but that speak about inauthentic love, but that was it. And then, you know, you texted was it. And then, you know, you texted was it. And then, you know, you texted your wife. This one wasn't so good. It your wife. This one wasn't so good. It your wife. This one wasn't so good. It was a stinker, I think, was a direct was a stinker, I think, was a direct was a stinker, I think, was a direct quote. quote. quote. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, we've all been there. Less Yeah. So, we've all been there. Less Yeah. So, we've all been there. Less than 2% of the students stay behind. You than 2% of the students stay behind. You than 2% of the students stay behind. You just stayed because you were supposed to just stayed because you were supposed to just stayed because you were supposed to stay and you promised you would. Um, stay and you promised you would. Um, stay and you promised you would. Um, what was different about those 19 what was different about those 19 what was different about those 19 students? students? students? Or was there anything different? Or was there anything different? Or was there anything different? Well, I have I have to give them props Well, I have I have to give them props Well, I have I have to give them props that I think they're hungry. I think that I think they're hungry. I think that I think they're hungry. I think God's doing something on hungry and God's doing something on hungry and God's doing something on hungry and humble people. humble people. humble people. Yeah. So play the scene. What were they Yeah. So play the scene. What were they Yeah. So play the scene. What were they doing? Were they just sitting there doing? Were they just sitting there doing? Were they just sitting there praying? Did they come to the front? Did praying? Did they come to the front? Did praying? Did they come to the front? Did they ask for prayer? Like just those of they ask for prayer? Like just those of they ask for prayer? Like just those of us who weren't there, what happened? us who weren't there, what happened? us who weren't there, what happened? Yeah. So the so they slowly moved Yeah. So the so they slowly moved Yeah. So the so they slowly moved towards the front and towards the front and towards the front and some of the the choir stayed behind and some of the the choir stayed behind and some of the the choir stayed behind and continued to lead in worship and continued to lead in worship and continued to lead in worship and they just sat and sang. There was at one they just sat and sang. There was at one they just sat and sang. There was at one point a group of them went and knelt at point a group of them went and knelt at point a group of them went and knelt at the altar and then within about an hour the altar and then within about an hour the altar and then within about an hour we start seeing more and more people we start seeing more and more people we start seeing more and more people walk back into chapel.

walk back into chapel. walk back into chapel. And were people texting people or how And were people texting people or how And were people texting people or how did the word spread? Okay. did the word spread? Okay. did the word spread? Okay. Yeah. people are texting and then Yeah. people are texting and then Yeah. people are texting and then there's stories of there's stories of there's stories of there's these four there's these four there's these four young men that just went and ran around young men that just went and ran around young men that just went and ran around campus and busted the classrooms and campus and busted the classrooms and campus and busted the classrooms and said that God said that God said that God was moving on chapel. And then around was moving on chapel. And then around was moving on chapel. And then around 4:00 in the afternoon, the president 4:00 in the afternoon, the president 4:00 in the afternoon, the president sent an email to campus. I remember sent an email to campus. I remember sent an email to campus. I remember sitting with Dr. Kevin Brown. He's a guy sitting with Dr. Kevin Brown. He's a guy sitting with Dr. Kevin Brown. He's a guy that is worth you connecting with, that is worth you connecting with, that is worth you connecting with, Carrie. Um Dr. Kevin Brown was he is Carrie. Um Dr. Kevin Brown was he is Carrie. Um Dr. Kevin Brown was he is just yeah it's just unbelievable. But just yeah it's just unbelievable. But just yeah it's just unbelievable. But sitting with him and him really sitting with him and him really sitting with him and him really wrestling with like do I send an email wrestling with like do I send an email wrestling with like do I send an email to faculty and students that something's to faculty and students that something's to faculty and students that something's happening and he did and by that evening happening and he did and by that evening happening and he did and by that evening chapel was full students from University chapel was full students from University chapel was full students from University of Kentucky were there of Kentucky were there of Kentucky were there uh just up the road other campuses and uh just up the road other campuses and uh just up the road other campuses and that evening another gentleman who would that evening another gentleman who would that evening another gentleman who would be good for you to connect with Dr.

be good for you to connect with Dr. be good for you to connect with Dr. David Thomas is a mentor of mine. I had David Thomas is a mentor of mine. I had David Thomas is a mentor of mine. I had called him to come just process a little called him to come just process a little called him to come just process a little bit. And I remember sitting standing in bit. And I remember sitting standing in bit. And I remember sitting standing in the basement of Hughes Auditorium the basement of Hughes Auditorium the basement of Hughes Auditorium with a couple of vice presidents, the with a couple of vice presidents, the with a couple of vice presidents, the president, David and I president, David and I president, David and I considering what would it look like to considering what would it look like to considering what would it look like to keep chapel open keep chapel open keep chapel open and how many people were there at this and how many people were there at this and how many people were there at this time and what was going on? time and what was going on? time and what was going on? It was, you know, it was probably It was, you know, it was probably It was, you know, it was probably about,300 people had come back. So it about,300 people had come back. So it about,300 people had come back. So it was flooded. Yeah. was flooded. Yeah. was flooded. Yeah. Yeah. And at that time I had preached Yeah. And at that time I had preached Yeah. And at that time I had preached again I think twice. Um we had seen a again I think twice. Um we had seen a again I think twice. Um we had seen a couple people come to Christ. couple people come to Christ. couple people come to Christ. We had hours about two hours of people We had hours about two hours of people We had hours about two hours of people just sharing testimony. just sharing testimony. just sharing testimony. Um Um Um times of confession of public reading of times of confession of public reading of times of confession of public reading of scripture. scripture. scripture. It was not sparkly and it was quite It was not sparkly and it was quite It was not sparkly and it was quite clunky you know. But that evening when clunky you know. But that evening when clunky you know. But that evening when we kind of discerned that God might be we kind of discerned that God might be we kind of discerned that God might be doing something. Let's keep chapel open.

doing something. Let's keep chapel open. doing something. Let's keep chapel open. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. And uh I came upstairs and got to the And uh I came upstairs and got to the And uh I came upstairs and got to the announce that we were going to keep it announce that we were going to keep it announce that we were going to keep it open. The room cheered and lots of open. The room cheered and lots of open. The room cheered and lots of students left to go get mattresses and students left to go get mattresses and students left to go get mattresses and pillows and they were going to stay the pillows and they were going to stay the pillows and they were going to stay the night. And uh and that ended up being night. And uh and that ended up being night. And uh and that ended up being the case for about 16 days. the case for about 16 days. the case for about 16 days. So in those first few hours did anything So in those first few hours did anything So in those first few hours did anything shift inside you and if so what can you shift inside you and if so what can you shift inside you and if so what can you can you describe it? Yeah, you know, the can you describe it? Yeah, you know, the can you describe it? Yeah, you know, the first couple hours I started getting first couple hours I started getting first couple hours I started getting envisioned and hopeful, envisioned and hopeful, envisioned and hopeful, but I would say, and this is honestly but I would say, and this is honestly but I would say, and this is honestly just honest, like just honest, like just honest, like I wish I was more locked in, but I I I wish I was more locked in, but I I I wish I was more locked in, but I I think we've said as a team, the first think we've said as a team, the first think we've said as a team, the first day or two, we just didn't say no. day or two, we just didn't say no. day or two, we just didn't say no. We just were curious enough to not say We just were curious enough to not say We just were curious enough to not say no. no. no. And then it was about day three or four And then it was about day three or four And then it was about day three or four when we said the yes, like the yes to when we said the yes, like the yes to when we said the yes, like the yes to sophisticating our leadership team, the sophisticating our leadership team, the sophisticating our leadership team, the yes to probably figuring out safety and yes to probably figuring out safety and yes to probably figuring out safety and lines and feeding schedules and lines and feeding schedules and lines and feeding schedules and starting to have to say yes. It was starting to have to say yes. It was starting to have to say yes. It was about that weekend. So the first couple about that weekend. So the first couple about that weekend. So the first couple hours I think I was getting hopeful hours I think I was getting hopeful hours I think I was getting hopeful and I was honored to be in the seat I and I was honored to be in the seat I and I was honored to be in the seat I was in.

was in. was in. But it wasn't until But it wasn't until But it wasn't until probably a day or two later that I was probably a day or two later that I was probably a day or two later that I was like like like it was time to lead. It was time to it was time to lead. It was time to it was time to lead. It was time to to steward a unique movement of God. And to steward a unique movement of God. And to steward a unique movement of God. And um the first day or so I was just kind um the first day or so I was just kind um the first day or so I was just kind of buzzing and curious, you know. of buzzing and curious, you know. of buzzing and curious, you know. Tell us what God did in your view over Tell us what God did in your view over Tell us what God did in your view over those 16 days. What kinds of things? And those 16 days. What kinds of things? And those 16 days. What kinds of things? And again, we've all read the reports. Most again, we've all read the reports. Most again, we've all read the reports. Most of us weren't there. What What did you of us weren't there. What What did you of us weren't there. What What did you see happening in the room? see happening in the room? see happening in the room? I saw God I saw God I saw God minister to a room and how he beautifully and intentionally and how he beautifully and intentionally and very personally ministers to people. and very personally ministers to people. and very personally ministers to people. You know, he ministers to you very You know, he ministers to you very You know, he ministers to you very different than he probably ministers to different than he probably ministers to different than he probably ministers to me. And that's the the joy of who we me. And that's the the joy of who we me. And that's the the joy of who we serve. serve. serve. But he moved in such a way that I think But he moved in such a way that I think But he moved in such a way that I think it captivated it captivated it captivated Gen Z in a unique way.

Gen Z in a unique way. Gen Z in a unique way. And it it captivated their their And it it captivated their their And it it captivated their their imaginations to what if this is what God imaginations to what if this is what God imaginations to what if this is what God could do could do could do were in. And the other generations got were in. And the other generations got were in. And the other generations got to observe and be strengthened and to observe and be strengthened and to observe and be strengthened and encouraged. encouraged. encouraged. But I I think what we've we saw at But I I think what we've we saw at But I I think what we've we saw at Asbury and what we've seen since is a Asbury and what we've seen since is a Asbury and what we've seen since is a generation is now envisioned generation is now envisioned generation is now envisioned with this authentic presence of God that with this authentic presence of God that with this authentic presence of God that uniquely ministers to their needs. not uniquely ministers to their needs. not uniquely ministers to their needs. not as consumers, but you think about like as consumers, but you think about like as consumers, but you think about like the peace we experience at Asbury for a the peace we experience at Asbury for a the peace we experience at Asbury for a generation that is just riddled with generation that is just riddled with generation that is just riddled with anxiety or the the joy in a uh anxiety or the the joy in a uh anxiety or the the joy in a uh generation that struggles with generation that struggles with generation that struggles with depression or a huge part of what I've depression or a huge part of what I've depression or a huge part of what I've discerned is we experience his humility discerned is we experience his humility discerned is we experience his humility and kindness in a context where most and kindness in a context where most and kindness in a context where most narratives is like pride and harshness narratives is like pride and harshness narratives is like pride and harshness in the church like and one thing one in the church like and one thing one in the church like and one thing one thing that was really unique was about a thing that was really unique was about a thing that was really unique was about a week in we had to discuss as leaders. So week in we had to discuss as leaders. So week in we had to discuss as leaders. So many people were just meeting each other many people were just meeting each other many people were just meeting each other and having these kind of ruckus joyful and having these kind of ruckus joyful and having these kind of ruckus joyful laughing conversations laughing conversations laughing conversations and it felt irreverent to what was and it felt irreverent to what was and it felt irreverent to what was happening in the room that we were like happening in the room that we were like happening in the room that we were like do we need to like tell people like hey do we need to like tell people like hey do we need to like tell people like hey if you want to just visit you have to if you want to just visit you have to if you want to just visit you have to leave and some of that probably it's leave and some of that probably it's leave and some of that probably it's like the manifest presence of God is in like the manifest presence of God is in like the manifest presence of God is in the room don't just come and like visit the room don't just come and like visit the room don't just come and like visit you know but then we realize someone you know but then we realize someone you know but then we realize someone said they're like we have such uch a

said they're like we have such uch a said they're like we have such uch a lonely generation. We are such a lonely lonely generation. We are such a lonely lonely generation. We are such a lonely people. We're all stuck to our phones people. We're all stuck to our phones people. We're all stuck to our phones and that's how we connect. That maybe and that's how we connect. That maybe and that's how we connect. That maybe that is even a movement of God's spirit that is even a movement of God's spirit that is even a movement of God's spirit that we're connecting strangers and that we're connecting strangers and that we're connecting strangers and they're enjoying each other. Um, so we they're enjoying each other. Um, so we they're enjoying each other. Um, so we saw so many of these countercultural saw so many of these countercultural saw so many of these countercultural kind of confrontational kind of confrontational kind of confrontational manifestations of God to a culture. And manifestations of God to a culture. And manifestations of God to a culture. And that's what he does, I think, when his that's what he does, I think, when his that's what he does, I think, when his presence comes as he confronts. presence comes as he confronts. presence comes as he confronts. And um and we don't like the word And um and we don't like the word And um and we don't like the word confrontation because confrontation because confrontation because that feels like raising a voice or being that feels like raising a voice or being that feels like raising a voice or being harsh, but harsh, but harsh, but but Jesus's character and confrontation but Jesus's character and confrontation but Jesus's character and confrontation can hold hands and and be at the same can hold hands and and be at the same can hold hands and and be at the same time. I think he confronted us in the time. I think he confronted us in the time. I think he confronted us in the ways that we needed to be confronted and ways that we needed to be confronted and ways that we needed to be confronted and and then envisioned for something and then envisioned for something and then envisioned for something bigger. Can you say more about how God, bigger. Can you say more about how God, bigger. Can you say more about how God, the Holy Spirit confronted you? the Holy Spirit confronted you? the Holy Spirit confronted you? Yeah. I I love this this this idea of Yeah. I I love this this this idea of Yeah. I I love this this this idea of confrontation comes from this book confrontation comes from this book confrontation comes from this book called The Invitation to a Journey.

called The Invitation to a Journey. called The Invitation to a Journey. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. And um there's this really simple And um there's this really simple And um there's this really simple subpoint in like one of the first subpoint in like one of the first subpoint in like one of the first chapters is if we want to be made more chapters is if we want to be made more chapters is if we want to be made more like Jesus, of course, we're going to like Jesus, of course, we're going to like Jesus, of course, we're going to experience confrontation in the parts experience confrontation in the parts experience confrontation in the parts that are the most unlike Jesus. that are the most unlike Jesus. that are the most unlike Jesus. you know, almost like a transparency you know, almost like a transparency you know, almost like a transparency layered on another transparency. When layered on another transparency. When layered on another transparency. When they don't line up, it doesn't make they don't line up, it doesn't make they don't line up, it doesn't make sense. sense. sense. So, if I have Jesus's profile and my So, if I have Jesus's profile and my So, if I have Jesus's profile and my life and characteristics and experience life and characteristics and experience life and characteristics and experience don't line up with that, then those are don't line up with that, then those are don't line up with that, then those are the points of confrontation. So, the points of confrontation. So, the points of confrontation. So, he confronts he confronts he confronts out of his love for me, for me to be out of his love for me, for me to be out of his love for me, for me to be formed into his likeness, he confronts formed into his likeness, he confronts formed into his likeness, he confronts me in the areas where I'm the most me in the areas where I'm the most me in the areas where I'm the most unlike him. unlike him. unlike him. And And And the Holy Spirit confronted me and my the Holy Spirit confronted me and my the Holy Spirit confronted me and my wife often during those 16 days. Um we wife often during those 16 days. Um we wife often during those 16 days. Um we were still processing and grieving the were still processing and grieving the were still processing and grieving the loss of our daughter Esther. And loss of our daughter Esther. And loss of our daughter Esther. And there was a moment, you know, the first there was a moment, you know, the first there was a moment, you know, the first couple days my my wife um didn't really couple days my my wife um didn't really couple days my my wife um didn't really engage with what was happening because engage with what was happening because engage with what was happening because part of her her journey was just an part of her her journey was just an part of her her journey was just an immense amount of grief and lots of immense amount of grief and lots of immense amount of grief and lots of valid hard questions.

valid hard questions. valid hard questions. And there was a moment where I think And there was a moment where I think And there was a moment where I think this cadence of confrontation in God's this cadence of confrontation in God's this cadence of confrontation in God's presence had led to this moment of presence had led to this moment of presence had led to this moment of breakthrough in my wife's life that they breakthrough in my wife's life that they breakthrough in my wife's life that they had given me an office upstairs and I'd had given me an office upstairs and I'd had given me an office upstairs and I'd come downstairs cuz I had heard my come downstairs cuz I had heard my come downstairs cuz I had heard my daughter and wife had arrived and I come daughter and wife had arrived and I come daughter and wife had arrived and I come through the doors and I see my wife through the doors and I see my wife through the doors and I see my wife worshiping and dancing with my daughter worshiping and dancing with my daughter worshiping and dancing with my daughter and we had been confronted and conformed and we had been confronted and conformed and we had been confronted and conformed into what Jesus wanted us to look like. into what Jesus wanted us to look like. into what Jesus wanted us to look like. and my wife's never been the same. and my wife's never been the same. and my wife's never been the same. That's confrontation. We're afraid of That's confrontation. We're afraid of That's confrontation. We're afraid of confrontation, but even like me, I confrontation, but even like me, I confrontation, but even like me, I struggle a lot with I can struggle a lot struggle a lot with I can struggle a lot struggle a lot with I can struggle a lot with pride, which presents in me being with pride, which presents in me being with pride, which presents in me being intimidated in fear of man. That's still intimidated in fear of man. That's still intimidated in fear of man. That's still pride, though. pride, though. pride, though. And I was confronted in this of saying, And I was confronted in this of saying, And I was confronted in this of saying, "Well, Zach, for some kind of reason, "Well, Zach, for some kind of reason, "Well, Zach, for some kind of reason, you're chosen to be preaching that day. you're chosen to be preaching that day. you're chosen to be preaching that day. So, are you going to step up and lead So, are you going to step up and lead So, are you going to step up and lead and be yourself, or you going to shrink and be yourself, or you going to shrink and be yourself, or you going to shrink back? Because back? Because back? Because why did he pick you? Why didn't he pick why did he pick you? Why didn't he pick why did he pick you? Why didn't he pick John Tyson who studies this or Luke John Tyson who studies this or Luke John Tyson who studies this or Luke Lefver who's unbelievable? Why didn't he Lefver who's unbelievable? Why didn't he Lefver who's unbelievable? Why didn't he pick David Thomas who studied this with pick David Thomas who studied this with pick David Thomas who studied this with his whole life? Or my pastor Austin who his whole life? Or my pastor Austin who his whole life? Or my pastor Austin who like like like is obsessed with prayer rooms and he's is obsessed with prayer rooms and he's is obsessed with prayer rooms and he's like a GQ model. Why did he pick me?

like a GQ model. Why did he pick me? like a GQ model. Why did he pick me? Well, I don't know. But I was confronted Well, I don't know. But I was confronted Well, I don't know. But I was confronted and I could step up with consecrated and I could step up with consecrated and I could step up with consecrated confidence and be myself. confidence and be myself. confidence and be myself. And but we have to place ourselves in a And but we have to place ourselves in a And but we have to place ourselves in a place to be confronted. And I think place to be confronted. And I think place to be confronted. And I think that's what's happening. I think we're that's what's happening. I think we're that's what's happening. I think we're seeing God confront students on, you seeing God confront students on, you seeing God confront students on, you know, through the Unite Us movement. I know, through the Unite Us movement. I know, through the Unite Us movement. I think think think we see God confronting we see God confronting we see God confronting the disunityity and the shortsidedness the disunityity and the shortsidedness the disunityity and the shortsidedness through movements like Gather 25. I through movements like Gather 25. I through movements like Gather 25. I think ultimately your podcast just think ultimately your podcast just think ultimately your podcast just cadence of confrontations on different cadence of confrontations on different cadence of confrontations on different topics. Someone's teaching something and topics. Someone's teaching something and topics. Someone's teaching something and it's confronting probably the listener it's confronting probably the listener it's confronting probably the listener in a way that they can either be like gh in a way that they can either be like gh in a way that they can either be like gh I don't like that like an itchy sweater. I don't like that like an itchy sweater. I don't like that like an itchy sweater. or a pebble in their shoe. Or they could or a pebble in their shoe. Or they could or a pebble in their shoe. Or they could deal with it because maybe it's a good deal with it because maybe it's a good deal with it because maybe it's a good confrontation and they'll look more like confrontation and they'll look more like confrontation and they'll look more like Jesus by the time they done listening to Jesus by the time they done listening to Jesus by the time they done listening to your podcast. your podcast. your podcast. It's a good It's a good metaphor, man. It's a good It's a good metaphor, man. It's a good It's a good metaphor, man. All of my growth comes out of All of my growth comes out of All of my growth comes out of confrontation. And that can be gentle. confrontation. And that can be gentle. confrontation. And that can be gentle. Sometimes it can be extremely painful, Sometimes it can be extremely painful, Sometimes it can be extremely painful, deeply harsh. You mentioned that, and I deeply harsh. You mentioned that, and I deeply harsh. You mentioned that, and I want to make sure I got this right, so want to make sure I got this right, so want to make sure I got this right, so please nuance it however you want, but please nuance it however you want, but please nuance it however you want, but it sounded like you were hinting at that it sounded like you were hinting at that it sounded like you were hinting at that God seemed to be dealing with Gen Z God seemed to be dealing with Gen Z God seemed to be dealing with Gen Z differently than older generations than differently than older generations than differently than older generations than millennials or Gen X or boomers who millennials or Gen X or boomers who millennials or Gen X or boomers who might have been in the room because of might have been in the room because of might have been in the room because of course started as a Gen Z thing and did course started as a Gen Z thing and did course started as a Gen Z thing and did you say 80,000 people made it through you say 80,000 people made it through you say 80,000 people made it through Asbury before it was over 16 days later.

Asbury before it was over 16 days later. Asbury before it was over 16 days later. So you got all the generations there. So you got all the generations there. So you got all the generations there. First of all, is that accurate? And First of all, is that accurate? And First of all, is that accurate? And secondly, how was it different secondly, how was it different secondly, how was it different generationally? generationally? generationally? Yeah. Yeah, it is accurate. And we Yeah. Yeah, it is accurate. And we Yeah. Yeah, it is accurate. And we decided early on to prioritize Jinzy. So decided early on to prioritize Jinzy. So decided early on to prioritize Jinzy. So we even had two lines. We had a line for we even had two lines. We had a line for we even had two lines. We had a line for 25 and younger and another line for 25 25 and younger and another line for 25 25 and younger and another line for 25 25 and older. And we got some beef for 25 and older. And we got some beef for 25 and older. And we got some beef for that. that. that. You got you got an express line for 25 You got you got an express line for 25 You got you got an express line for 25 and under. Wow. and under. Wow. and under. Wow. Yeah. And at one point Hughes was pretty Yeah. And at one point Hughes was pretty Yeah. And at one point Hughes was pretty much only 25 and younger. much only 25 and younger. much only 25 and younger. Wow. because we had so many other people Wow. because we had so many other people Wow. because we had so many other people and we really felt like God was trying and we really felt like God was trying and we really felt like God was trying to do something with that generation. to do something with that generation. to do something with that generation. What made you do that? What made you What made you do that? What made you What made you do that? What made you sense that? sense that? sense that? Um, Um, Um, we discerned that as a team, you know, we discerned that as a team, you know, we discerned that as a team, you know, it wasn't Zach's decision. It was it it wasn't Zach's decision. It was it it wasn't Zach's decision. It was it the team moved from me and a few others the team moved from me and a few others the team moved from me and a few others to about seven of us and then that to about seven of us and then that to about seven of us and then that sophistication sophisticated to a team sophistication sophisticated to a team sophistication sophisticated to a team of about 14 but then two in a kind of of about 14 but then two in a kind of of about 14 but then two in a kind of two concentric circles smaller two concentric circles smaller two concentric circles smaller and we just continued to discern that and we just continued to discern that and we just continued to discern that this seemingly was for our students and this seemingly was for our students and this seemingly was for our students and the students that were coming. We had the students that were coming. We had the students that were coming. We had over 300 college campuses and over 300 college campuses and over 300 college campuses and universities represented during those 16 universities represented during those 16 universities represented during those 16 days.

days. days. Wow. One of my favorite pictures, we had Wow. One of my favorite pictures, we had Wow. One of my favorite pictures, we had this big whiteboard and it was if you're this big whiteboard and it was if you're this big whiteboard and it was if you're a college student, come and write down a college student, come and write down a college student, come and write down the university. And I remember seeing the university. And I remember seeing the university. And I remember seeing Yale, Harvard, UC, Santa Barbara, CSU, Yale, Harvard, UC, Santa Barbara, CSU, Yale, Harvard, UC, Santa Barbara, CSU, SEC schools, uh, community colleges, SEC schools, uh, community colleges, SEC schools, uh, community colleges, international schools. So, we just international schools. So, we just international schools. So, we just discerned that. And, you know what was discerned that. And, you know what was discerned that. And, you know what was really awesome is we only there was like really awesome is we only there was like really awesome is we only there was like little to no push back on that. I little to no push back on that. I little to no push back on that. I remember this one time I was at the remember this one time I was at the remember this one time I was at the front of the line and there's this front of the line and there's this front of the line and there's this couple that had waited for eight hours couple that had waited for eight hours couple that had waited for eight hours with their son who had just got out of with their son who had just got out of with their son who had just got out of rehab rehab rehab and their son was under 25 and they and their son was under 25 and they and their son was under 25 and they weren't. weren't. weren't. And they it was like I just had to get And they it was like I just had to get And they it was like I just had to get my young son to the altar my young son to the altar my young son to the altar and they like dropped their son off. He and they like dropped their son off. He and they like dropped their son off. He went straight to the altar and then they went straight to the altar and then they went straight to the altar and then they went to another venue to just wait and went to another venue to just wait and went to another venue to just wait and pray for their son. There just seemingly pray for their son. There just seemingly pray for their son. There just seemingly was was was a grace on it. And I think one thing a grace on it. And I think one thing a grace on it. And I think one thing that was really beautiful was that other that was really beautiful was that other that was really beautiful was that other generations were getting called to be generations were getting called to be generations were getting called to be spiritual fathers and mothers being spiritual fathers and mothers being spiritual fathers and mothers being called to be spiritual brothers and big called to be spiritual brothers and big called to be spiritual brothers and big brothers and sisters brothers and sisters brothers and sisters and and realize like for some of them and and realize like for some of them and and realize like for some of them it's not about you anymore.

it's not about you anymore. it's not about you anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. And then but it Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. And then but it Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. And then but it was also a good rebuke and challenge for was also a good rebuke and challenge for was also a good rebuke and challenge for Gen Z to be like, "Hey, look at this Gen Z to be like, "Hey, look at this Gen Z to be like, "Hey, look at this room. Look at this little town that has room. Look at this little town that has room. Look at this little town that has been invaded by spiritual big brothers been invaded by spiritual big brothers been invaded by spiritual big brothers and sisters and mothers and fathers that and sisters and mothers and fathers that and sisters and mothers and fathers that are here for you." are here for you." are here for you." You're not. You're not. You're not. Yeah. And in Malachi it says, "The Yeah. And in Malachi it says, "The Yeah. And in Malachi it says, "The fathers will turn to the sons and sons fathers will turn to the sons and sons fathers will turn to the sons and sons will turn to the fathers." So there's will turn to the fathers." So there's will turn to the fathers." So there's even times where I would co-e with my even times where I would co-e with my even times where I would co-e with my mentor who is in his 60s and I'm 35 mentor who is in his 60s and I'm 35 mentor who is in his 60s and I'm 35 and we would challenge, hey, if you're and we would challenge, hey, if you're and we would challenge, hey, if you're under 25, go find someone that is older under 25, go find someone that is older under 25, go find someone that is older than you and pray over them than you and pray over them than you and pray over them and you return the favor. And there was and you return the favor. And there was and you return the favor. And there was just it was like breathing on coals just it was like breathing on coals just it was like breathing on coals whenever that stuff happened. You know whenever that stuff happened. You know whenever that stuff happened. You know what I mean? And if you talk to some of what I mean? And if you talk to some of what I mean? And if you talk to some of these our friends that are just these our friends that are just these our friends that are just unbelievable worship leaders, they had unbelievable worship leaders, they had unbelievable worship leaders, they had not been led in the present, not been led in the present, not been led in the present, they I remember talking to one of our they I remember talking to one of our they I remember talking to one of our friends who said, "I have I miss worship friends who said, "I have I miss worship friends who said, "I have I miss worship being led by like 18-year-olds who can't being led by like 18-year-olds who can't being led by like 18-year-olds who can't really play that instrument, but the really play that instrument, but the really play that instrument, but the purity of their heart and they were that purity of their heart and they were that purity of their heart and they were that was a confrontation."

was a confrontation." was a confrontation." You know, there were some of our there You know, there were some of our there You know, there were some of our there was some of our dear friends that sat in was some of our dear friends that sat in was some of our dear friends that sat in that room and wept. But if you knew the that room and wept. But if you knew the that room and wept. But if you knew the rooms that they lead worship in, you rooms that they lead worship in, you rooms that they lead worship in, you would know that, you know, would know that, you know, would know that, you know, I actually pulled up this quote that I I I actually pulled up this quote that I I I actually pulled up this quote that I I laugh about all the time, Carrie. I laugh about all the time, Carrie. I laugh about all the time, Carrie. I can't tell you exactly who posted this can't tell you exactly who posted this can't tell you exactly who posted this because because because but he is a Grammy award-winning but he is a Grammy award-winning but he is a Grammy award-winning musical artist that Okay. The the Gen Z musical artist that Okay. The the Gen Z musical artist that Okay. The the Gen Z students had no clue who he was. I students had no clue who he was. I students had no clue who he was. I remember noticing that they had put this remember noticing that they had put this remember noticing that they had put this guy on the jbe guy on the jbe guy on the jbe like a little box drum or like a little box drum or like a little box drum or and this guy leads from the piano and and this guy leads from the piano and and this guy leads from the piano and this is what he posted. He says, "I've this is what he posted. He says, "I've this is what he posted. He says, "I've been at the Asbury Revival for hours. been at the Asbury Revival for hours. been at the Asbury Revival for hours. They put me on kahome with the emoji of They put me on kahome with the emoji of They put me on kahome with the emoji of him crying and laughing." One Gen Z him crying and laughing." One Gen Z him crying and laughing." One Gen Z worship leader, after every song he worship leader, after every song he worship leader, after every song he played would completely stop cold turkey played would completely stop cold turkey played would completely stop cold turkey for about a minute. While everyone in for about a minute. While everyone in for about a minute. While everyone in the room was awkwardly waiting, he'd the room was awkwardly waiting, he'd the room was awkwardly waiting, he'd turn to us and say,"Well, what song do turn to us and say,"Well, what song do turn to us and say,"Well, what song do we want to do next?" I offered to help, we want to do next?" I offered to help, we want to do next?" I offered to help, but he told me that a little time or a but he told me that a little time or a but he told me that a little time or a little quiet never hurt anyone.

little quiet never hurt anyone. little quiet never hurt anyone. He says, "There is no showmanship He says, "There is no showmanship He says, "There is no showmanship whatsoever." And then he writes this. whatsoever." And then he writes this. whatsoever." And then he writes this. I'm convinced that in one of the I'm convinced that in one of the I'm convinced that in one of the darkest, most selfabsorbed times in darkest, most selfabsorbed times in darkest, most selfabsorbed times in human history, God is raising up Jenzers human history, God is raising up Jenzers human history, God is raising up Jenzers who are they will be marked by humility. who are they will be marked by humility. who are they will be marked by humility. In meekness, they will braid whips and In meekness, they will braid whips and In meekness, they will braid whips and drive out circus shows of the church. drive out circus shows of the church. drive out circus shows of the church. They will overturn tables of They will overturn tables of They will overturn tables of exaggeration and celebrity Christianity. exaggeration and celebrity Christianity. exaggeration and celebrity Christianity. And nameless and faceless army will make And nameless and faceless army will make And nameless and faceless army will make God's house a true house of prayer. God's house a true house of prayer. God's house a true house of prayer. That's a confrontation. That's a confrontation. That's a confrontation. Yep. No, you know, that is interesting. Yep. No, you know, that is interesting. Yep. No, you know, that is interesting. You know, if if you have a bit of a You know, if if you have a bit of a You know, if if you have a bit of a profile in the church, the audience is profile in the church, the audience is profile in the church, the audience is so fractionalized now with Gen Z. I'm so fractionalized now with Gen Z. I'm so fractionalized now with Gen Z. I'm sure a lot of Gen Z have no idea what I sure a lot of Gen Z have no idea what I sure a lot of Gen Z have no idea what I do. Or you could name uh the leaders of do. Or you could name uh the leaders of do. Or you could name uh the leaders of the 10 largest churches in the US and the 10 largest churches in the US and the 10 largest churches in the US and Gen Z is like who? Uh and that's not a Gen Z is like who? Uh and that's not a Gen Z is like who? Uh and that's not a bad thing. That is not a bad thing. What bad thing. That is not a bad thing. What bad thing. That is not a bad thing. What you said that God was moving differently you said that God was moving differently you said that God was moving differently in the generation. So there's in the generation. So there's in the generation. So there's confrontation, but then when it came to confrontation, but then when it came to confrontation, but then when it came to Gen Z, Gen Z, Gen Z, what did you see happening? Jenny Allen what did you see happening? Jenny Allen what did you see happening? Jenny Allen talks about confession and JP Buda talk talks about confession and JP Buda talk talks about confession and JP Buda talk about confession being such a big part about confession being such a big part about confession being such a big part of it. Was that there? What what was of it. Was that there? What what was of it. Was that there? What what was going on with with Gen Z? Because on the going on with with Gen Z? Because on the going on with with Gen Z? Because on the one hand, it was affirming, right? Like one hand, it was affirming, right? Like one hand, it was affirming, right? Like you're not alone. You're deeply loved by you're not alone. You're deeply loved by you're not alone. You're deeply loved by the father.

the father. the father. What was going on? What was going on? What was going on? Yeah, definitely confession. I think Yeah, definitely confession. I think Yeah, definitely confession. I think there's there's there's there's a real awareness of brokenness there's a real awareness of brokenness there's a real awareness of brokenness in Gen Z because we've all told them how in Gen Z because we've all told them how in Gen Z because we've all told them how broken they are, but also they are they broken they are, but also they are they broken they are, but also they are they they they they feel broken. They they feel anxious. feel broken. They they feel anxious. feel broken. They they feel anxious. They they know it. So when we create They they know it. So when we create They they know it. So when we create ecosystems where it's safe for them to ecosystems where it's safe for them to ecosystems where it's safe for them to be honest be honest be honest and we as leaders will also be honest, and we as leaders will also be honest, and we as leaders will also be honest, they're like, "Oh, they're like, "Oh, they're like, "Oh, if you're going to go there, I'll go if you're going to go there, I'll go if you're going to go there, I'll go there." So there was an immense amount there." So there was an immense amount there." So there was an immense amount of confession, but there was also an of confession, but there was also an of confession, but there was also an immense amount of courage for them to immense amount of courage for them to immense amount of courage for them to share things share things share things and and there was also immense amount of and and there was also immense amount of and and there was also immense amount of courage for them to step up and lead. M courage for them to step up and lead. M courage for them to step up and lead. M you know during those 16 days we had you know during those 16 days we had you know during those 16 days we had some people preach that first sermon some people preach that first sermon some people preach that first sermon ever in front of 80,000 people or the ever in front of 80,000 people or the ever in front of 80,000 people or the night that 4.9 million people tuned in a night that 4.9 million people tuned in a night that 4.9 million people tuned in a sophomore in college preached the sophomore in college preached the sophomore in college preached the message and I stayed up till 4 in the message and I stayed up till 4 in the message and I stayed up till 4 in the morning at Waffle House the day before morning at Waffle House the day before morning at Waffle House the day before you know and there was a courage but you know and there was a courage but you know and there was a courage but when you behold Jesus when his presence when you behold Jesus when his presence when you behold Jesus when his presence falls and you behold Jesus You confess falls and you behold Jesus You confess falls and you behold Jesus You confess and you have courage. Isaiah 6.

and you have courage. Isaiah 6. and you have courage. Isaiah 6. Presence. Woe is me. I'm a man of Presence. Woe is me. I'm a man of Presence. Woe is me. I'm a man of unclean lips. Hey, who will I send? Send unclean lips. Hey, who will I send? Send unclean lips. Hey, who will I send? Send me. me. me. Confession and courage. It's honestly a Confession and courage. It's honestly a Confession and courage. It's honestly a lot of what what kind of what you're lot of what what kind of what you're lot of what what kind of what you're talking about is this retreat and talking about is this retreat and talking about is this retreat and revival. This like retreat of like revival. This like retreat of like revival. This like retreat of like stepping. I'm like, "Oh, I don't know if stepping. I'm like, "Oh, I don't know if stepping. I'm like, "Oh, I don't know if I want to be a part of this." But then I want to be a part of this." But then I want to be a part of this." But then also this revived courage to step also this revived courage to step also this revived courage to step forward. forward. forward. And we saw it, And we saw it, And we saw it, you know. you know. you know. so many innovate innovations and so many innovate innovations and so many innovate innovations and solutions brought to us by Gen Z during solutions brought to us by Gen Z during solutions brought to us by Gen Z during those days. those days. those days. I want to come back to that. You you I want to come back to that. You you I want to come back to that. You you used an interesting phrase creating used an interesting phrase creating used an interesting phrase creating ecosystems for people to be honest. ecosystems for people to be honest. ecosystems for people to be honest. What does that look like? I mean, in What does that look like? I mean, in What does that look like? I mean, in many respects, just to frame this up, if many respects, just to frame this up, if many respects, just to frame this up, if you look at how 98% of us are leading you look at how 98% of us are leading you look at how 98% of us are leading church these days who are listening to church these days who are listening to church these days who are listening to this show, uh that would be like, well, this show, uh that would be like, well, this show, uh that would be like, well, Sunday morning, you know, there's not a Sunday morning, you know, there's not a Sunday morning, you know, there's not a lot of confession going on. and there's lot of confession going on. and there's lot of confession going on. and there's not a lot of vulnerability. That's for not a lot of vulnerability. That's for not a lot of vulnerability. That's for community group. Hopefully, it happens community group. Hopefully, it happens community group. Hopefully, it happens there. Who knows whether it's happening there. Who knows whether it's happening there. Who knows whether it's happening there?

there? there? But where do you create ecosystems for But where do you create ecosystems for But where do you create ecosystems for people to be honest? people to be honest? people to be honest? Yeah. I think if I could be so bold, I Yeah. I think if I could be so bold, I Yeah. I think if I could be so bold, I would ask the question, who convinced would ask the question, who convinced would ask the question, who convinced you that that has to happen in community you that that has to happen in community you that that has to happen in community groups? groups? groups? Yeah. Yeah. because I I have not led Yeah. Yeah. because I I have not led Yeah. Yeah. because I I have not led large churches, but I I did plant and large churches, but I I did plant and large churches, but I I did plant and pastor a church for for a while, and pastor a church for for a while, and pastor a church for for a while, and I've worked with church planners for I've worked with church planners for I've worked with church planners for quite a while. quite a while. quite a while. And what I love about And what I love about And what I love about about the ability to ask that question about the ability to ask that question about the ability to ask that question is you really kind of I think one thing is you really kind of I think one thing is you really kind of I think one thing that we're seeing since Asbury like in that we're seeing since Asbury like in that we're seeing since Asbury like in our friends in London like one of our our friends in London like one of our our friends in London like one of our dear friends Al Gordon I just want to dear friends Al Gordon I just want to dear friends Al Gordon I just want to give him a shout out because Al Gordon give him a shout out because Al Gordon give him a shout out because Al Gordon love Al Love Al love Al Love Al love Al Love Al Al has humbly put pretty much his entire Al has humbly put pretty much his entire Al has humbly put pretty much his entire scorecard of what is a success on the scorecard of what is a success on the scorecard of what is a success on the altar and said Jesus am I am I after the altar and said Jesus am I am I after the altar and said Jesus am I am I after the right things. right things. right things. And I think that's kind of that And I think that's kind of that And I think that's kind of that question. It's like, who told you that question. It's like, who told you that question. It's like, who told you that that has to happen in 10 to 12 people in that has to happen in 10 to 12 people in that has to happen in 10 to 12 people in a living room and not in your preaching?

a living room and not in your preaching? a living room and not in your preaching? Who told you that that has to happen in Who told you that that has to happen in Who told you that that has to happen in one-on-one pastoral care counseling and one-on-one pastoral care counseling and one-on-one pastoral care counseling and not in the response time? And not in the response time? And not in the response time? And I think through some of the things in my I think through some of the things in my I think through some of the things in my life and and I know you've been very life and and I know you've been very life and and I know you've been very open with some of your story, Carrie, open with some of your story, Carrie, open with some of your story, Carrie, it kind of crystallizes this like it kind of crystallizes this like it kind of crystallizes this like and this is who we are. This is how by and this is who we are. This is how by and this is who we are. This is how by God's grace is enough and Gen Z sees us God's grace is enough and Gen Z sees us God's grace is enough and Gen Z sees us doing that and they'll step in if we'll doing that and they'll step in if we'll doing that and they'll step in if we'll go there. So if we create this ecosystem go there. So if we create this ecosystem go there. So if we create this ecosystem of honesty and authenticity with good of honesty and authenticity with good of honesty and authenticity with good boundaries, right? You're not going to boundaries, right? You're not going to boundaries, right? You're not going to throw your pearls to swine. You're not throw your pearls to swine. You're not throw your pearls to swine. You're not going to throw holy things to dogs like going to throw holy things to dogs like going to throw holy things to dogs like Matthew 7 instructs us. Matthew 7 instructs us. Matthew 7 instructs us. So I don't share the same things from So I don't share the same things from So I don't share the same things from stage that I do in my accountability stage that I do in my accountability stage that I do in my accountability room. room. room. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I do want to create an ecosystem of But I do want to create an ecosystem of But I do want to create an ecosystem of authenticity and honesty that the people authenticity and honesty that the people authenticity and honesty that the people that watch are like if he's not put that watch are like if he's not put that watch are like if he's not put together, I don't have to be put together, I don't have to be put together, I don't have to be put together. And if I'm if I'm shiny on together. And if I'm if I'm shiny on together. And if I'm if I'm shiny on stage, they actually believe the lie.

stage, they actually believe the lie. stage, they actually believe the lie. They have to be shiny in the seats. They have to be shiny in the seats. They have to be shiny in the seats. But if I don't have to be impressive on But if I don't have to be impressive on But if I don't have to be impressive on stage but just be faithful, then they stage but just be faithful, then they stage but just be faithful, then they actually don't really have to be actually don't really have to be actually don't really have to be impressive in the seats and just be impressive in the seats and just be impressive in the seats and just be faithful. And that's this ecosystem faithful. And that's this ecosystem faithful. And that's this ecosystem that we're seeing not just during those that we're seeing not just during those that we're seeing not just during those 16 days 16 days 16 days at Asbury, but I think we're starting to at Asbury, but I think we're starting to at Asbury, but I think we're starting to see around the church and around the see around the church and around the see around the church and around the globe. I've seen it as I've traveled. globe. I've seen it as I've traveled. globe. I've seen it as I've traveled. It gets me excited. you know, they they It gets me excited. you know, they they It gets me excited. you know, they they they were on the podcast a few months they were on the podcast a few months they were on the podcast a few months ago, but you know, when you really look ago, but you know, when you really look ago, but you know, when you really look at the life and ministry of Jenny Allen at the life and ministry of Jenny Allen at the life and ministry of Jenny Allen and JPluda, you mentioned Unite Us. and JPluda, you mentioned Unite Us. and JPluda, you mentioned Unite Us. That's a characteristic for both of That's a characteristic for both of That's a characteristic for both of them. They're pretty transparent about them. They're pretty transparent about them. They're pretty transparent about what's right and what's wrong in their what's right and what's wrong in their what's right and what's wrong in their lives and very recent history, not like lives and very recent history, not like lives and very recent history, not like 30 years ago, you know, it's more like 30 years ago, you know, it's more like 30 years ago, you know, it's more like yesterday. Um, I think that's right from yesterday. Um, I think that's right from yesterday. Um, I think that's right from the front, but I'm wondering if you can the front, but I'm wondering if you can the front, but I'm wondering if you can rewind the film a little bit to the rewind the film a little bit to the rewind the film a little bit to the first day, the first hours when you cuz first day, the first hours when you cuz first day, the first hours when you cuz you were there firsthand when you you were there firsthand when you you were there firsthand when you remember confession happening for the remember confession happening for the remember confession happening for the first time. How did that happen? How did first time. How did that happen? How did first time. How did that happen? How did it not just become worship fest or it not just become worship fest or it not just become worship fest or preachoffs or like how did confession preachoffs or like how did confession preachoffs or like how did confession become a really big part of what become a really big part of what become a really big part of what happened at Asbury?

happened at Asbury? happened at Asbury? Yeah, we go back to beholding, right? So Yeah, we go back to beholding, right? So Yeah, we go back to beholding, right? So when you behold Jesus, you confess, when you behold Jesus, you confess, when you behold Jesus, you confess, right? Yeah. right? Yeah. right? Yeah. So there is something about worship So there is something about worship So there is something about worship leads to confession or man, you know, leads to confession or man, you know, leads to confession or man, you know, presence. But it started actually with a presence. But it started actually with a presence. But it started actually with a student asking to share his testimony. student asking to share his testimony. student asking to share his testimony. Okay, Okay, Okay, that was the first time. And that guy, a that was the first time. And that guy, a that was the first time. And that guy, a student, he was a senior that year or student, he was a senior that year or student, he was a senior that year or junior that year. Charlie stepped up and junior that year. Charlie stepped up and junior that year. Charlie stepped up and shared his testimony about how both of shared his testimony about how both of shared his testimony about how both of his parents had died in a car accident. his parents had died in a car accident. his parents had died in a car accident. um the semester before and that he was um the semester before and that he was um the semester before and that he was really scared and intimidated and people really scared and intimidated and people really scared and intimidated and people rallied around and prayed for him. And rallied around and prayed for him. And rallied around and prayed for him. And then another girl stepped up and then another girl stepped up and then another girl stepped up and testified to feeling invisible and uh testified to feeling invisible and uh testified to feeling invisible and uh desiring to commit suicide. And I desiring to commit suicide. And I desiring to commit suicide. And I remember hearing from the balcony remember hearing from the balcony remember hearing from the balcony someone just screaming, "I see you. someone just screaming, "I see you. someone just screaming, "I see you. You're not invisible." And all these You're not invisible." And all these You're not invisible." And all these people just rushed to the stage and people just rushed to the stage and people just rushed to the stage and started praying for this girl. And then started praying for this girl. And then started praying for this girl. And then I remember saying, "Okay, we're going to I remember saying, "Okay, we're going to I remember saying, "Okay, we're going to step on stage." And this is how clunky step on stage." And this is how clunky step on stage." And this is how clunky it was, Carrie. I stepped on stage and it was, Carrie. I stepped on stage and it was, Carrie. I stepped on stage and said, "Okay, we're going to we're we're said, "Okay, we're going to we're we're said, "Okay, we're going to we're we're not going to air our dirty laundry, but not going to air our dirty laundry, but not going to air our dirty laundry, but we're going to step into a time of we're going to step into a time of we're going to step into a time of confession. Stand up and say, I confess confession. Stand up and say, I confess confession. Stand up and say, I confess this." And then the whole room will say, this." And then the whole room will say, this." And then the whole room will say, "Christ's blood covers your sin." M "Christ's blood covers your sin." M "Christ's blood covers your sin." M and I remember this is like it's kind of and I remember this is like it's kind of and I remember this is like it's kind of funny but also beautiful like students funny but also beautiful like students funny but also beautiful like students stepped up confessed we all said stepped up confessed we all said stepped up confessed we all said Christ's blood covers your sin and then Christ's blood covers your sin and then Christ's blood covers your sin and then a professor stands up and confesses to

a professor stands up and confesses to a professor stands up and confesses to something that like you could feel in something that like you could feel in something that like you could feel in the room like how are we going to the room like how are we going to the room like how are we going to respond? Is this going to take the the respond? Is this going to take the the respond? Is this going to take the the air out of the room? Cuz that's a air out of the room? Cuz that's a air out of the room? Cuz that's a professor professor professor and the room says it before I could lead and the room says it before I could lead and the room says it before I could lead it. it. it. And does that make sense? Like And does that make sense? Like And does that make sense? Like Yeah. So, how did the room respond? Like Yeah. So, how did the room respond? Like Yeah. So, how did the room respond? Like they just said it like they just it did they just said it like they just it did they just said it like they just it did not they just said Christ's blood covers not they just said Christ's blood covers not they just said Christ's blood covers your sin. And then the next person moved your sin. And then the next person moved your sin. And then the next person moved on on on because it was like and then in that because it was like and then in that because it was like and then in that moment I remember a couple times later I moment I remember a couple times later I moment I remember a couple times later I was like, "Hey, we're going to have some was like, "Hey, we're going to have some was like, "Hey, we're going to have some pastors come up front. If you do confess pastors come up front. If you do confess pastors come up front. If you do confess to something that you need some to something that you need some to something that you need some coaching, come up front. I have some coaching, come up front. I have some coaching, come up front. I have some local pastors up to my front on my local pastors up to my front on my local pastors up to my front on my right." But it was just this quick right." But it was just this quick right." But it was just this quick innovation in the moment and we just innovation in the moment and we just innovation in the moment and we just went on and it went on for like a little went on and it went on for like a little went on and it went on for like a little over an hour. over an hour. over an hour. Wow. Wow. Wow. And then we moved into a tunnel of And then we moved into a tunnel of And then we moved into a tunnel of silence silence silence and then we w and then we rolled back and then we w and then we rolled back and then we w and then we rolled back into worship. So there was kind of these into worship. So there was kind of these into worship. So there was kind of these like moving puzzle puzzle pieces that we like moving puzzle puzzle pieces that we like moving puzzle puzzle pieces that we move around of move around of move around of scripture read aloud confession aloud scripture read aloud confession aloud scripture read aloud confession aloud stories.

stories. stories. Um, and we just kind of we met every Um, and we just kind of we met every Um, and we just kind of we met every about 3 hours. And something that we about 3 hours. And something that we about 3 hours. And something that we talked a lot about is we're not like I talked a lot about is we're not like I talked a lot about is we're not like I wrote this in my notes just so I could wrote this in my notes just so I could wrote this in my notes just so I could say like say like say like I remember continually having to remind I remember continually having to remind I remember continually having to remind myself it's not time to exert. It's time myself it's not time to exert. It's time myself it's not time to exert. It's time to examine. to examine. to examine. It's not time to put my hands on this. It's not time to put my hands on this. It's not time to put my hands on this. It's time for me to put eyes on it. It's time for me to put eyes on it. It's time for me to put eyes on it. It's not time to be direct. It's time It's not time to be direct. It's time It's not time to be direct. It's time for me to listen. it's time for me to for me to listen. it's time for me to for me to listen. it's time for me to observe and then lead. I had to like observe and then lead. I had to like observe and then lead. I had to like continue to remember myself because continue to remember myself because continue to remember myself because because I can QB a situation. I can because I can QB a situation. I can because I can QB a situation. I can lead. But it was like this time that was lead. But it was like this time that was lead. But it was like this time that was almost too delicate and holy to like almost too delicate and holy to like almost too delicate and holy to like just pull out my like leadership book I just pull out my like leadership book I just pull out my like leadership book I read and just start leading. So read and just start leading. So read and just start leading. So how did you and perhaps the team as time how did you and perhaps the team as time how did you and perhaps the team as time went on, how did you discern that? went on, how did you discern that? went on, how did you discern that? Because I think stewarding that moment, Because I think stewarding that moment, Because I think stewarding that moment, you guys didn't really have a category you guys didn't really have a category you guys didn't really have a category for it or a recent precedent for it.

for it or a recent precedent for it. for it or a recent precedent for it. It's not like this happened last year It's not like this happened last year It's not like this happened last year somewhere else. How did you discern that somewhere else. How did you discern that somewhere else. How did you discern that in the moment? in the moment? in the moment? Yeah. I think one thing that was really Yeah. I think one thing that was really Yeah. I think one thing that was really clear was it was in plurality. clear was it was in plurality. clear was it was in plurality. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. So we had a different we had different So we had a different we had different So we had a different we had different gifts and perspectives. gifts and perspectives. gifts and perspectives. We had different generations represented We had different generations represented We had different generations represented and and and we really just didn't want to get in the we really just didn't want to get in the we really just didn't want to get in the way. way. way. So, we really kind of felt like, So, we really kind of felt like, So, we really kind of felt like, you know, shepherds or or kind of trying you know, shepherds or or kind of trying you know, shepherds or or kind of trying to, you know, when it was time to exert, to, you know, when it was time to exert, to, you know, when it was time to exert, it was more like a tap than like a like it was more like a tap than like a like it was more like a tap than like a like a big push. It was like we need to get a big push. It was like we need to get a big push. It was like we need to get just a little bit this way, a little bit just a little bit this way, a little bit just a little bit this way, a little bit this way because this way because this way because we weren't the one the primary person we weren't the one the primary person we weren't the one the primary person exerting ourselves. It was God was was exerting ourselves. It was God was was exerting ourselves. It was God was was presenting itself and we were fearing presenting itself and we were fearing presenting itself and we were fearing and and kind of tapping here and tapping and and kind of tapping here and tapping and and kind of tapping here and tapping there and we would do that in team there and we would do that in team there and we would do that in team pretty ruthlessly and we would pretty ruthlessly and we would pretty ruthlessly and we would if someone stepped out of that we would if someone stepped out of that we would if someone stepped out of that we would be pretty open with them that that be pretty open with them that that be pretty open with them that that couldn't happen again. I remember like couldn't happen again. I remember like couldn't happen again. I remember like the third or fourth day something the third or fourth day something the third or fourth day something happened and I just jumped on stage and happened and I just jumped on stage and happened and I just jumped on stage and let it and I was quickly rebuked by the let it and I was quickly rebuked by the let it and I was quickly rebuked by the team because it just was that's not how team because it just was that's not how team because it just was that's not how we were doing it.

we were doing it. we were doing it. That was a little too what? Aggressive. That was a little too what? Aggressive. That was a little too what? Aggressive. Bullish. Yeah, bullish or aggressive. It Bullish. Yeah, bullish or aggressive. It Bullish. Yeah, bullish or aggressive. It was just like was just like was just like it wasn't evil. It wasn't sinful. It it wasn't evil. It wasn't sinful. It it wasn't evil. It wasn't sinful. It just just just we had decided how we were going to lead we had decided how we were going to lead we had decided how we were going to lead and that wasn't how we were leading. and that wasn't how we were leading. and that wasn't how we were leading. When So you mentioned testimony. I think When So you mentioned testimony. I think When So you mentioned testimony. I think a lot of pastors are terrified of that, a lot of pastors are terrified of that, a lot of pastors are terrified of that, getting audience participation, so to getting audience participation, so to getting audience participation, so to speak, congregational participation. speak, congregational participation. speak, congregational participation. Um, obviously that was catalytic in the Um, obviously that was catalytic in the Um, obviously that was catalytic in the event, catalytic to Gen Z. event, catalytic to Gen Z. event, catalytic to Gen Z. Did you have to moderate it to the point Did you have to moderate it to the point Did you have to moderate it to the point where people were being inappropriate where people were being inappropriate where people were being inappropriate with what they were sharing? I mean, I with what they were sharing? I mean, I with what they were sharing? I mean, I just want to ask the question just want to ask the question just want to ask the question everybody's thinking in the back of everybody's thinking in the back of everybody's thinking in the back of their mind their mind their mind because they're thinking if we do that because they're thinking if we do that because they're thinking if we do that on Sunday, we're going to get all the on Sunday, we're going to get all the on Sunday, we're going to get all the people who shouldn't be speaking people who shouldn't be speaking people who shouldn't be speaking speaking and the people who we would speaking and the people who we would speaking and the people who we would want to speak are probably going to sit want to speak are probably going to sit want to speak are probably going to sit back. Uh, how did you what were the back. Uh, how did you what were the back. Uh, how did you what were the dynamics involved in that? dynamics involved in that? dynamics involved in that? Yeah. So, one practical thing and then Yeah. So, one practical thing and then Yeah. So, one practical thing and then one more theoretical thing. I think the one more theoretical thing. I think the one more theoretical thing. I think the theoretical thing is still asking the theoretical thing is still asking the theoretical thing is still asking the question, what is our primary priority question, what is our primary priority question, what is our primary priority today?

today? today? Is it the saintthhood of all believers Is it the saintthhood of all believers Is it the saintthhood of all believers and we're willing to pay the tax of and we're willing to pay the tax of and we're willing to pay the tax of something happening a little bit awkward something happening a little bit awkward something happening a little bit awkward because because because that's just what we do in community. We that's just what we do in community. We that's just what we do in community. We pay the tax. So that's I want to pay the tax. So that's I want to pay the tax. So that's I want to continue to point us back to like let's continue to point us back to like let's continue to point us back to like let's ask that question. Let's continue to ask ask that question. Let's continue to ask ask that question. Let's continue to ask that question. But practically one of that question. But practically one of that question. But practically one of our my teammates uh Jess Avery had a our my teammates uh Jess Avery had a our my teammates uh Jess Avery had a great thing. She said, "We would great thing. She said, "We would great thing. She said, "We would announce there's the ABCDs announce there's the ABCDs announce there's the ABCDs of testimony and we would hold the mic. of testimony and we would hold the mic. of testimony and we would hold the mic. They wouldn't hold the mic. We would They wouldn't hold the mic. We would They wouldn't hold the mic. We would hold the mic hold the mic hold the mic and they would visit with someone before and they would visit with someone before and they would visit with someone before they got to get on stage, but or we they got to get on stage, but or we they got to get on stage, but or we actually didn't let them on stage. They actually didn't let them on stage. They actually didn't let them on stage. They would come up front would come up front would come up front and ABCDs. and ABCDs. and ABCDs. Uh, A was all about Jesus, B be brief, Uh, A was all about Jesus, B be brief, Uh, A was all about Jesus, B be brief, C was current. It wasn't Hey, this C was current. It wasn't Hey, this C was current. It wasn't Hey, this happened when I was seven. It was like, happened when I was seven. It was like, happened when I was seven. It was like, this is what God's doing now. Indeed, this is what God's doing now. Indeed, this is what God's doing now. Indeed, don't preach.

don't preach. don't preach. And we held the mic and they needed to And we held the mic and they needed to And we held the mic and they needed to follow the rules of ABCD. And if they follow the rules of ABCD. And if they follow the rules of ABCD. And if they didn't, we would didn't, we would didn't, we would lead the situation. lead the situation. lead the situation. How often did that happen? Um, where you How often did that happen? Um, where you How often did that happen? Um, where you had to kind of pull the mic away or had to kind of pull the mic away or had to kind of pull the mic away or I know I remember like three times that I know I remember like three times that I know I remember like three times that in 16 days. That's not bad. You know, in 16 days. That's not bad. You know, in 16 days. That's not bad. You know, there's probably more fear. And I there's probably more fear. And I there's probably more fear. And I appreciate the guidelines, by the way. appreciate the guidelines, by the way. appreciate the guidelines, by the way. If you're ever doing a Q&A, If you're ever doing a Q&A, If you're ever doing a Q&A, hold the mic. Don't don't don't give it hold the mic. Don't don't don't give it hold the mic. Don't don't don't give it to the person asking the question. to the person asking the question. to the person asking the question. That's a good that's a really good idea. That's a good that's a really good idea. That's a good that's a really good idea. And then and then I guess you set a tone And then and then I guess you set a tone And then and then I guess you set a tone and people kind of know, oh, this is and people kind of know, oh, this is and people kind of know, oh, this is this is how we do it. Yeah. this is how we do it. Yeah. this is how we do it. Yeah. Yeah. I think Yeah. I think Yeah. I think you create culture, too. You know, if you create culture, too. You know, if you create culture, too. You know, if you're a church leader, you're a church leader, you're a church leader, you could see this as creating culture you could see this as creating culture you could see this as creating culture that you'll you're willing to linger in that you'll you're willing to linger in that you'll you're willing to linger in worship. You're creating culture that, worship. You're creating culture that, worship. You're creating culture that, right, right, right, people could preach for the first time people could preach for the first time people could preach for the first time or the, you know, and suddenly you're or the, you know, and suddenly you're or the, you know, and suddenly you're you're creating culture that people you're creating culture that people you're creating culture that people could testify and we're willing to pay could testify and we're willing to pay could testify and we're willing to pay the tax of the awkwardness or the fumble the tax of the awkwardness or the fumble the tax of the awkwardness or the fumble because because because the ultimate goal is the ultimate goal is the ultimate goal is is to be the church, not to entertain, is to be the church, not to entertain, is to be the church, not to entertain, you know.

you know. you know. So, this goes on for 16 days. Um, So, this goes on for 16 days. Um, So, this goes on for 16 days. Um, how did you how did you how did you how did you decide that you were going how did you decide that you were going how did you decide that you were going to I mean, the first night you kind of to I mean, the first night you kind of to I mean, the first night you kind of described we're going to stay open described we're going to stay open described we're going to stay open overnight, overnight, overnight, but was there the temptation to say, but was there the temptation to say, but was there the temptation to say, "Okay, it's been 24 hours, guys. We're "Okay, it's been 24 hours, guys. We're "Okay, it's been 24 hours, guys. We're going to shut this down." like how did going to shut this down." like how did going to shut this down." like how did you how did you navigate those dynamics you how did you navigate those dynamics you how did you navigate those dynamics get that discernment get that discernment get that discernment to and then I want to get to a second to and then I want to get to a second to and then I want to get to a second part of the question which is you know part of the question which is you know part of the question which is you know why 16 days I remember that announcement why 16 days I remember that announcement why 16 days I remember that announcement coming out cuz everyone's like is this coming out cuz everyone's like is this coming out cuz everyone's like is this going to go on for a month like what's going to go on for a month like what's going to go on for a month like what's going on but let's talk about just the going on but let's talk about just the going on but let's talk about just the first few days why what was the first few days why what was the first few days why what was the thought process behind leaving it open thought process behind leaving it open thought process behind leaving it open to continue to continue to continue yeah I think one thing that was really yeah I think one thing that was really yeah I think one thing that was really beautiful about Asbury and then the team beautiful about Asbury and then the team beautiful about Asbury and then the team that was built was we just had a level that was built was we just had a level that was built was we just had a level of faith and imagination of what this of faith and imagination of what this of faith and imagination of what this could be. could be. could be. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. And it seemingly was confirmed by people And it seemingly was confirmed by people And it seemingly was confirmed by people we trusted and called upon we trusted and called upon we trusted and called upon and simply and seemingly confirmed by and simply and seemingly confirmed by and simply and seemingly confirmed by the community in which it was happening the community in which it was happening the community in which it was happening within that this was a unique outpouring within that this was a unique outpouring within that this was a unique outpouring of God's spirit.

of God's spirit. of God's spirit. And we just we would meet almost every 3 And we just we would meet almost every 3 And we just we would meet almost every 3 hours. We would take about 6 hours off hours. We would take about 6 hours off hours. We would take about 6 hours off at night and all sleep. But then we at night and all sleep. But then we at night and all sleep. But then we would meet about every 3 hours would meet about every 3 hours would meet about every 3 hours and it would feel awkward because you and it would feel awkward because you and it would feel awkward because you know thousands and thousands and know thousands and thousands and know thousands and thousands and thousands were waiting in line and we thousands were waiting in line and we thousands were waiting in line and we would ask the question are we still would ask the question are we still would ask the question are we still going going going and yeah we're supposed to you know and and yeah we're supposed to you know and and yeah we're supposed to you know and then you know transitioning to then you know transitioning to then you know transitioning to catalyzing after 16 days catalyzing after 16 days catalyzing after 16 days you know a lot of that was you know a lot of that was you know a lot of that was processing the fact that we had limits processing the fact that we had limits processing the fact that we had limits you Asbury University is chartered to be you Asbury University is chartered to be you Asbury University is chartered to be university university university and not an event venue and in Wilmore, and not an event venue and in Wilmore, and not an event venue and in Wilmore, Kentucky has two stop lightss and Kentucky has two stop lightss and Kentucky has two stop lightss and a Subway restaurant, a Chinese a Subway restaurant, a Chinese a Subway restaurant, a Chinese restaurant. restaurant. restaurant. Like the police began to ask us, say, Like the police began to ask us, say, Like the police began to ask us, say, how long is this going to last?

how long is this going to last? how long is this going to last? Um, plumbing started to break in the Um, plumbing started to break in the Um, plumbing started to break in the little town. little town. little town. people were weren't able to find parking people were weren't able to find parking people were weren't able to find parking so they would just pull into people's so they would just pull into people's so they would just pull into people's yards and ruin their yards, you know, yards and ruin their yards, you know, yards and ruin their yards, you know, like like like yeah, yeah, yeah, we are what's awesome and what I've had we are what's awesome and what I've had we are what's awesome and what I've had to learn the last two years is God is to learn the last two years is God is to learn the last two years is God is not frustrated with my limits. not frustrated with my limits. not frustrated with my limits. He's created me to be a human, not a He's created me to be a human, not a He's created me to be a human, not a superhero. And as soon as during during superhero. And as soon as during during superhero. And as soon as during during the Asbury outpouring, I was still very the Asbury outpouring, I was still very the Asbury outpouring, I was still very human. All of us were very human. And human. All of us were very human. And human. All of us were very human. And the city was still a city with a the city was still a city with a the city was still a city with a university with students that needed to university with students that needed to university with students that needed to eat and go to class. And we had about 20 eat and go to class. And we had about 20 eat and go to class. And we had about 20 students that didn't leave their dorms students that didn't leave their dorms students that didn't leave their dorms the entire time cuz they were they were the entire time cuz they were they were the entire time cuz they were they were so afraid so afraid so afraid really. really. really. And just afraid of the crowds, afraid of And just afraid of the crowds, afraid of And just afraid of the crowds, afraid of Yeah. You know, and the reality is the Yeah. You know, and the reality is the Yeah. You know, and the reality is the crowds don't understand that this is a crowds don't understand that this is a crowds don't understand that this is a university. Not all of them did. crowds university. Not all of them did. crowds university. Not all of them did. crowds don't understand that that's a girl dorm don't understand that that's a girl dorm don't understand that that's a girl dorm and those bathrooms aren't for you, you and those bathrooms aren't for you, you and those bathrooms aren't for you, you know, like we don't you don't think know, like we don't you don't think know, like we don't you don't think about that stuff. But about that stuff. But about that stuff. But yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that's one reason why Kevin I think that's one reason why Kevin I think that's one reason why Kevin Brown, the president, is one of the Brown, the president, is one of the Brown, the president, is one of the greatest leaders I've witnessed in greatest leaders I've witnessed in greatest leaders I've witnessed in adaptive leadership and godly integrity adaptive leadership and godly integrity adaptive leadership and godly integrity to stand up in it and continue to meet to stand up in it and continue to meet to stand up in it and continue to meet with his faculty and say, "Are we are we with his faculty and say, "Are we are we with his faculty and say, "Are we are we in?" like he would have these regular in?" like he would have these regular in?" like he would have these regular state of the unions or almost like town state of the unions or almost like town state of the unions or almost like town halls with his faculty and be like I halls with his faculty and be like I halls with his faculty and be like I need to know if you're in because if

need to know if you're in because if need to know if you're in because if you're in we're going and when we're you're in we're going and when we're you're in we're going and when we're done I'll make the hard call. And when done I'll make the hard call. And when done I'll make the hard call. And when all that kind of combined and we all that kind of combined and we all that kind of combined and we realized that we needed to do something realized that we needed to do something realized that we needed to do something different we explored about five different we explored about five different we explored about five opportizing at the Cleveland day of prayer. One of at the Cleveland day of prayer. One of it was moving to a campground and it was moving to a campground and it was moving to a campground and getting a tent. One of it was continuing getting a tent. One of it was continuing getting a tent. One of it was continuing as is. One of it was to move to a church as is. One of it was to move to a church as is. One of it was to move to a church and one of it was doing like a Wednesday and one of it was doing like a Wednesday and one of it was doing like a Wednesday and Friday night service. and Friday night service. and Friday night service. And we prayed and fasted as a team And we prayed and fasted as a team And we prayed and fasted as a team and uh I remember that. I'll never and uh I remember that. I'll never and uh I remember that. I'll never forget that meeting all of us coming forget that meeting all of us coming forget that meeting all of us coming together and just together and just together and just take us there. What happened? take us there. What happened? take us there. What happened? Yeah, it was it was this really holy Yeah, it was it was this really holy Yeah, it was it was this really holy moment moment moment with an immense amount of grief with an immense amount of grief with an immense amount of grief that almost like we were saying bye to a that almost like we were saying bye to a that almost like we were saying bye to a unique thing that we none of us really unique thing that we none of us really unique thing that we none of us really wanted to say bye to but all of us were wanted to say bye to but all of us were wanted to say bye to but all of us were so exhausted so exhausted so exhausted and um we really really trusted the and um we really really trusted the and um we really really trusted the constituted authority constituted authority constituted authority who was hosting us and that was Asbury.

who was hosting us and that was Asbury. who was hosting us and that was Asbury. university university university and Asbury University was going to make and Asbury University was going to make and Asbury University was going to make the best decision for what they have the best decision for what they have the best decision for what they have been chartered and asked to do and been chartered and asked to do and been chartered and asked to do and that's to raise up the next generation that's to raise up the next generation that's to raise up the next generation of an academic excellence and spiritual of an academic excellence and spiritual of an academic excellence and spiritual vitality as a university vitality as a university vitality as a university and uh I'm really proud of Asbury. and uh I'm really proud of Asbury. and uh I'm really proud of Asbury. Um I think they made the right decision. Um I think they made the right decision. Um I think they made the right decision. I'm really proud of Kevin Brown and his I'm really proud of Kevin Brown and his I'm really proud of Kevin Brown and his team. team. team. I still really miss it. I sit in Hughes I still really miss it. I sit in Hughes I still really miss it. I sit in Hughes auditorium often and pray. But I think we've seen that Asbury was But I think we've seen that Asbury was part of the story of what God's doing in part of the story of what God's doing in part of the story of what God's doing in the world. It is it is not the story. the world. It is it is not the story. the world. It is it is not the story. Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, very much not. And uh and we had to very much not. And uh and we had to very much not. And uh and we had to allow that. What was the reaction when allow that. What was the reaction when allow that. What was the reaction when you announced because I remember you announced because I remember you announced because I remember announcing that it's going to end at announcing that it's going to end at announcing that it's going to end at such and such a time and we're going to such and such a time and we're going to such and such a time and we're going to go back to regularly scheduled go back to regularly scheduled go back to regularly scheduled programming so to speak. What was the programming so to speak. What was the programming so to speak. What was the reaction you had not online but in the reaction you had not online but in the reaction you had not online but in the room and in real life?

room and in real life? room and in real life? Um Um Um the students were very grateful and the students were very grateful and the students were very grateful and excited. excited. excited. um almost all pretty positive. I think um almost all pretty positive. I think um almost all pretty positive. I think there was a level of grief. You know, I there was a level of grief. You know, I there was a level of grief. You know, I remember meeting people had flown across remember meeting people had flown across remember meeting people had flown across the world and got there a day late. the world and got there a day late. the world and got there a day late. Just just got there and then it's like Just just got there and then it's like Just just got there and then it's like and they're shutting down. Yeah. and they're shutting down. Yeah. and they're shutting down. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I remember one night Yeah. You know, I remember one night Yeah. You know, I remember one night we had started closing for a couple we had started closing for a couple we had started closing for a couple hours at night too so we could clean and hours at night too so we could clean and hours at night too so we could clean and there was I remember one night I locked there was I remember one night I locked there was I remember one night I locked up I was last person in the room and I up I was last person in the room and I up I was last person in the room and I walked around and there's like hundreds walked around and there's like hundreds walked around and there's like hundreds of people waiting of people waiting of people waiting and they didn't hear that we had been and they didn't hear that we had been and they didn't hear that we had been closed for the night closed for the night closed for the night and uh and uh and uh yeah, you know, I have a good counselor yeah, you know, I have a good counselor yeah, you know, I have a good counselor to process on but at the same time And it was more it but at the same time And it was more it was more positive than negative. was more positive than negative. was more positive than negative. And we all held each other accountable And we all held each other accountable And we all held each other accountable to stay off the internet for the long. to stay off the internet for the long. to stay off the internet for the long. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's fair. I mean, Yeah. Yeah. No, that's fair. I mean, Yeah. Yeah. No, that's fair. I mean, this is the this is the thing, right?

this is the this is the thing, right? this is the this is the thing, right? These are uh and I'm thank you for the These are uh and I'm thank you for the These are uh and I'm thank you for the very human humane very human humane very human humane uh storytelling around this because we uh storytelling around this because we uh storytelling around this because we can think of it in very can think of it in very can think of it in very you know does terms where the spirit you know does terms where the spirit you know does terms where the spirit floats above the body but we are floats above the body but we are floats above the body but we are tremendously fused as human beings and tremendously fused as human beings and tremendously fused as human beings and the spirit is the spirit is the spirit is somehow infused with this body and this somehow infused with this body and this somehow infused with this body and this body makes mistakes right. body makes mistakes right. body makes mistakes right. Yeah. So I get that. Yeah. So I get that. Yeah. So I get that. When you sit in the Hughes auditorium When you sit in the Hughes auditorium When you sit in the Hughes auditorium now, now, now, what happens? what happens? what happens? How do you process? What do you feel? How do you process? What do you feel? How do you process? What do you feel? Yeah. Yeah. I can only speak for me. Yeah. Yeah. I can only speak for me. Yeah. Yeah. I can only speak for me. Sure. Sure. Sure. Um, Um, Um, now I do think the spiritual temperature now I do think the spiritual temperature now I do think the spiritual temperature in Hughes Auditorium and on campus is in Hughes Auditorium and on campus is in Hughes Auditorium and on campus is absurd in a good way. absurd in a good way. absurd in a good way. And we're seeing you're seeing amazing And we're seeing you're seeing amazing And we're seeing you're seeing amazing things put I'm there. The best way to things put I'm there. The best way to things put I'm there. The best way to put it is like put it is like put it is like you remember when you go to like you you remember when you go to like you you remember when you go to like you smell something that reminds you of like smell something that reminds you of like smell something that reminds you of like grandma's house.

grandma's house. grandma's house. Yeah. Ivory dish soap every time. Yeah. Ivory dish soap every time. Yeah. Ivory dish soap every time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. You know, or like this is There you go. You know, or like this is There you go. You know, or like this is funny. I was just in Orlando and I feel funny. I was just in Orlando and I feel funny. I was just in Orlando and I feel like Orlando water has a certain smell. like Orlando water has a certain smell. like Orlando water has a certain smell. It does actually. Now that you mention It does actually. Now that you mention It does actually. Now that you mention it, it does. And I'm like, but that it, it does. And I'm like, but that it, it does. And I'm like, but that always reminds me of when I went to always reminds me of when I went to always reminds me of when I went to Disney World with my dad before he Disney World with my dad before he Disney World with my dad before he before he uh he he part of my story is before he uh he he part of my story is before he uh he he part of my story is he kind of left he left us. So I he kind of left he left us. So I he kind of left he left us. So I remember remember remember Disney. So I was just at Disney World Disney. So I was just at Disney World Disney. So I was just at Disney World and I'm like smelling that and it and I'm like smelling that and it and I'm like smelling that and it reminds me of those memories. reminds me of those memories. reminds me of those memories. When I'm in cues, When I'm in cues, When I'm in cues, it's just like sitting like grandma's it's just like sitting like grandma's it's just like sitting like grandma's house or house or house or tasting that water in Orlando. tasting that water in Orlando. tasting that water in Orlando. Something beautiful happened here. And Something beautiful happened here. And Something beautiful happened here. And and something unique too is I actually and something unique too is I actually and something unique too is I actually have so much I can pray have so much I can pray have so much I can pray with level 10 faith in Hughes. with level 10 faith in Hughes. with level 10 faith in Hughes. Oh, like that you wouldn't get sitting Oh, like that you wouldn't get sitting Oh, like that you wouldn't get sitting where you are right now. where you are right now. where you are right now. Yeah. Like I'm in the basement of my Yeah. Like I'm in the basement of my Yeah. Like I'm in the basement of my house. There's something about stepping house. There's something about stepping house. There's something about stepping into Hughes auditorium that I'm like, into Hughes auditorium that I'm like, into Hughes auditorium that I'm like, "Yeah, Jesus will come back." Like "Yeah, Jesus will come back." Like "Yeah, Jesus will come back." Like Europe will be saved. Like Europe will be saved. Like Europe will be saved. Like cuz there's something about going back cuz there's something about going back cuz there's something about going back to that place where I saw tumors to that place where I saw tumors to that place where I saw tumors disappear and people get out of disappear and people get out of disappear and people get out of wheelchairs and we got a Zoom call one wheelchairs and we got a Zoom call one wheelchairs and we got a Zoom call one day from missionaries that had come to day from missionaries that had come to day from missionaries that had come to Asbury and had gone back to the Asbury and had gone back to the Asbury and had gone back to the Indonesia and then went into an Indonesia and then went into an Indonesia and then went into an unreached people group led them to the unreached people group led them to the unreached people group led them to the Lord Lord Lord like and I sat in cues and got that call like and I sat in cues and got that call like and I sat in cues and got that call you know so there's actually some of our you know so there's actually some of our you know so there's actually some of our good friends mutual friends that um are

good friends mutual friends that um are good friends mutual friends that um are going through something, processing going through something, processing going through something, processing something. And just the other day, I something. And just the other day, I something. And just the other day, I prayed for them in Houston and sent them prayed for them in Houston and sent them prayed for them in Houston and sent them a picture. a picture. a picture. And there's just something about a place And there's just something about a place And there's just something about a place where they met God, where I met God, and where they met God, where I met God, and where they met God, where I met God, and we in that can join together with an we in that can join together with an we in that can join together with an immense amount of faith because we saw immense amount of faith because we saw immense amount of faith because we saw Jesus show up there. Jesus show up there. Jesus show up there. Um that I have a lot of faith. I joke Um that I have a lot of faith. I joke Um that I have a lot of faith. I joke that, you know, in numbers 13 and 14, that, you know, in numbers 13 and 14, that, you know, in numbers 13 and 14, there's 12 spies that saw the land there's 12 spies that saw the land there's 12 spies that saw the land and 10 came back with one report and two and 10 came back with one report and two and 10 came back with one report and two came back with another, even though they came back with another, even though they came back with another, even though they saw the same thing. saw the same thing. saw the same thing. Yes. Yes. Yes. And I just feel like the church has And I just feel like the church has And I just feel like the church has heard 10 spy reports for too long. And heard 10 spy reports for too long. And heard 10 spy reports for too long. And when I sit in Hughes, I am a two spy. when I sit in Hughes, I am a two spy. when I sit in Hughes, I am a two spy. Like my report is Like my report is Like my report is let's go. like let's go. And you can let's go. like let's go. And you can let's go. like let's go. And you can think so many things about whatever think so many things about whatever think so many things about whatever God's doing, but I'm I'm just going to God's doing, but I'm I'm just going to God's doing, but I'm I'm just going to be one of the two spies. And when I'm be one of the two spies. And when I'm be one of the two spies. And when I'm when I'm in Hughes Auditorium or when when I'm in Hughes Auditorium or when when I'm in Hughes Auditorium or when I'm preaching in Hughes Auditorium, when I'm preaching in Hughes Auditorium, when I'm preaching in Hughes Auditorium, when I'm with university students right now, I'm with university students right now, I'm with university students right now, I just feel like one of the two spies.

I just feel like one of the two spies. I just feel like one of the two spies. And um And um And um that's cool. that's cool. that's cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um Um Um tumors and wheelchairs. Talk about that. tumors and wheelchairs. Talk about that. tumors and wheelchairs. Talk about that. Yeah, I think it it was, you know, I I Yeah, I think it it was, you know, I I Yeah, I think it it was, you know, I I saw things that I've never seen before. saw things that I've never seen before. saw things that I've never seen before. And And And one of my favorite stories is we had one of my favorite stories is we had one of my favorite stories is we had this basketball player who was kind of this basketball player who was kind of this basketball player who was kind of bad news and he was pretty much still on bad news and he was pretty much still on bad news and he was pretty much still on our campus our campus our campus because he was really good at because he was really good at because he was really good at basketball. basketball. basketball. And And And fair enough, say no more. And uh he just fair enough, say no more. And uh he just fair enough, say no more. And uh he just sat in that room for days, not a sat in that room for days, not a sat in that room for days, not a believer, but sat in that room for days believer, but sat in that room for days believer, but sat in that room for days cuz his girlfriend was a believer. cuz his girlfriend was a believer. cuz his girlfriend was a believer. And he ends up giving his life to the And he ends up giving his life to the And he ends up giving his life to the Lord Lord Lord and walking out of the room and running and walking out of the room and running and walking out of the room and running into a man in a wheelchair with some into a man in a wheelchair with some into a man in a wheelchair with some tumors that were that you could see tumors that were that you could see tumors that were that you could see around his face. around his face. around his face. And this basketball player grabbed, he And this basketball player grabbed, he And this basketball player grabbed, he tells this story. He's like, I grabbed tells this story. He's like, I grabbed tells this story. He's like, I grabbed my girlfriend and I had seen it my girlfriend and I had seen it my girlfriend and I had seen it happening and now I was a believer so I happening and now I was a believer so I happening and now I was a believer so I can pray for him.

can pray for him. can pray for him. And he prayed for this guy and this guy And he prayed for this guy and this guy And he prayed for this guy and this guy was healed was healed was healed and and and like visibly his face. like visibly his face. like visibly his face. Visibly tumors disappear. He's out of Visibly tumors disappear. He's out of Visibly tumors disappear. He's out of his wheelchair. And this is a basketball his wheelchair. And this is a basketball his wheelchair. And this is a basketball player who had known Jesus for 30 player who had known Jesus for 30 player who had known Jesus for 30 minutes and had been and the thing that minutes and had been and the thing that minutes and had been and the thing that I've been preaching and dreaming and I I've been preaching and dreaming and I I've been preaching and dreaming and I would love to challenge anyone who's would love to challenge anyone who's would love to challenge anyone who's listening is like that guy did not know listening is like that guy did not know listening is like that guy did not know better. He just didn't know better. And better. He just didn't know better. And better. He just didn't know better. And so many of us know better all of a so many of us know better all of a so many of us know better all of a sudden. Like, oh, we can't do that sudden. Like, oh, we can't do that sudden. Like, oh, we can't do that because I know better. Well, look what because I know better. Well, look what because I know better. Well, look what look what happens when a room doesn't look what happens when a room doesn't look what happens when a room doesn't know better. know better. know better. You know, like You know, like You know, like Luke 18 says, "Hey, no, don't push away Luke 18 says, "Hey, no, don't push away Luke 18 says, "Hey, no, don't push away the children disciples. You actually the children disciples. You actually the children disciples. You actually have to be like them to come into the have to be like them to come into the have to be like them to come into the kingdom." So, it was something like when kingdom." So, it was something like when kingdom." So, it was something like when we experienced God, we just didn't know we experienced God, we just didn't know we experienced God, we just didn't know better. So, then we started praying in better. So, then we started praying in better. So, then we started praying in ways that we hadn't prayed. ways that we hadn't prayed. ways that we hadn't prayed. and we didn't have this level of and we didn't have this level of and we didn't have this level of cynicism that so we saw people get in cynicism that so we saw people get in cynicism that so we saw people get in our wheelchairs and we saw people's our wheelchairs and we saw people's our wheelchairs and we saw people's stutters disappear and we saw someone stutters disappear and we saw someone stutters disappear and we saw someone healed from Tourette's. We saw healed from Tourette's. We saw healed from Tourette's. We saw spontaneously $80,000 given after this spontaneously $80,000 given after this spontaneously $80,000 given after this student gave a testimony that he student gave a testimony that he student gave a testimony that he couldn't get home.

couldn't get home. couldn't get home. And And And and I remember someone in the in the and I remember someone in the in the and I remember someone in the in the balcony yells out, "Hey, dude." And he balcony yells out, "Hey, dude." And he balcony yells out, "Hey, dude." And he throws something at the student and I'm throws something at the student and I'm throws something at the student and I'm like, "Oh, it's all done." Like this is like, "Oh, it's all done." Like this is like, "Oh, it's all done." Like this is the worst. Like I remember the worst. Like I remember the worst. Like I remember bad. bad. bad. And it was a wad of cash And it was a wad of cash And it was a wad of cash and it spontaneously turned into almost and it spontaneously turned into almost and it spontaneously turned into almost 10 minute minutes of people at all seven 10 minute minutes of people at all seven 10 minute minutes of people at all seven venues at that time bringing money to venues at that time bringing money to venues at that time bringing money to the front. We collected it. We just didn't know better. We just didn't know better. There's there's beauty to that. There's there's beauty to that. There's there's beauty to that. Uneducated, inarticulate men, ordinary Uneducated, inarticulate men, ordinary Uneducated, inarticulate men, ordinary men. men. men. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think when you're in the presence of I think when you're in the presence of I think when you're in the presence of God, you restore some childlikeness, God, you restore some childlikeness, God, you restore some childlikeness, you know. you know. you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And um And um And um so yeah, when I'm in Hughes, I start so yeah, when I'm in Hughes, I start so yeah, when I'm in Hughes, I start thinking, what if a little bit more, you thinking, what if a little bit more, you thinking, what if a little bit more, you know? know? know? I love that. I love that. And that's a I love that. I love that. And that's a I love that. I love that. And that's a that's a great that's a great that's a great You mentioned confrontation. That's a You mentioned confrontation. That's a You mentioned confrontation. That's a great confrontation for someone like me.

great confrontation for someone like me. great confrontation for someone like me. Very rational. Um Very rational. Um Very rational. Um let's talk about After Effects, let's talk about After Effects, let's talk about After Effects, Afterglow. Afterglow. Afterglow. I want to talk about you, but let's talk I want to talk about you, but let's talk I want to talk about you, but let's talk about the students first, particularly about the students first, particularly about the students first, particularly Gen Z. Um, you know, if you look at the Gen Z. Um, you know, if you look at the Gen Z. Um, you know, if you look at the metadata, I mean, I'm so since I wrote metadata, I mean, I'm so since I wrote metadata, I mean, I'm so since I wrote that piece on Gen Z being in revival and that piece on Gen Z being in revival and that piece on Gen Z being in revival and retreat, New York Times, Pew Research, retreat, New York Times, Pew Research, retreat, New York Times, Pew Research, numerous headlines showing that the numerous headlines showing that the numerous headlines showing that the decline in the church has reversed in decline in the church has reversed in decline in the church has reversed in Christianity in the last couple of Christianity in the last couple of Christianity in the last couple of years. And that's super encouraging. I years. And that's super encouraging. I years. And that's super encouraging. I want to be all over that. Yet, you look want to be all over that. Yet, you look want to be all over that. Yet, you look at Gen Z and church attendance actually at Gen Z and church attendance actually at Gen Z and church attendance actually until, you know, as far as I know right until, you know, as far as I know right until, you know, as far as I know right now, has been declining, not increasing. now, has been declining, not increasing. now, has been declining, not increasing. So you see that revival, this really So you see that revival, this really So you see that revival, this really powerful move of God, but on the meta powerful move of God, but on the meta powerful move of God, but on the meta level there's 70 million Gen Z. Not all level there's 70 million Gen Z. Not all level there's 70 million Gen Z. Not all of them are coming to faith. But among of them are coming to faith. But among of them are coming to faith. But among those who are at Asbury, what are you those who are at Asbury, what are you those who are at Asbury, what are you seeing two and a bit years later now? seeing two and a bit years later now? seeing two and a bit years later now? Yeah, I think a ma a a a a maturation Yeah, I think a ma a a a a maturation Yeah, I think a ma a a a a maturation like a maturing of okay, my life cannot like a maturing of okay, my life cannot like a maturing of okay, my life cannot be like those 16 days for the rest of my be like those 16 days for the rest of my be like those 16 days for the rest of my life. So what does that mean?

life. So what does that mean? life. So what does that mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, what does that mean? Like I You know, what does that mean? Like I You know, what does that mean? Like I had a conversation with three athletes had a conversation with three athletes had a conversation with three athletes yesterday who were all present at the yesterday who were all present at the yesterday who were all present at the outpouring who all of them are outpouring who all of them are outpouring who all of them are struggling with dating relationships and struggling with dating relationships and struggling with dating relationships and purity. Like they didn't worry about purity. Like they didn't worry about purity. Like they didn't worry about that during the outpouring, but they do that during the outpouring, but they do that during the outpouring, but they do now. But they rem but they remember now. But they rem but they remember now. But they rem but they remember some of the things that were deposited some of the things that were deposited some of the things that were deposited you know and you know and you know and um but we also have students we you know um but we also have students we you know um but we also have students we you know we've sent over 100 teams all over the we've sent over 100 teams all over the we've sent over 100 teams all over the world to testify. We have people who world to testify. We have people who world to testify. We have people who have become missionaries and pastors and have become missionaries and pastors and have become missionaries and pastors and who knows what you know 10 20 years from who knows what you know 10 20 years from who knows what you know 10 20 years from now we're going to hear about from them. now we're going to hear about from them. now we're going to hear about from them. Um Um Um so there is a there's a maturation of so there is a there's a maturation of so there is a there's a maturation of like okay what does this mean now in like okay what does this mean now in like okay what does this mean now in ordinary ordinary ordinary life what does it mean that life what does it mean that life what does it mean that you know one of my good friends he's a you know one of my good friends he's a you know one of my good friends he's a student he was a student during the student he was a student during the student he was a student during the outpouring led worship quite a bit outpouring led worship quite a bit outpouring led worship quite a bit during the outpouring now leads worship during the outpouring now leads worship during the outpouring now leads worship at a three campus church in I believe at a three campus church in I believe at a three campus church in I believe Mississippi and he's asking very Mississippi and he's asking very Mississippi and he's asking very practical questions on how to apply what practical questions on how to apply what practical questions on how to apply what he experienced at Asbury and the worship he experienced at Asbury and the worship he experienced at Asbury and the worship services that he stewards. Like those services that he stewards. Like those services that he stewards. Like those are just really great questions, you are just really great questions, you are just really great questions, you know, know, know, and how is it going? Have you seen and how is it going? Have you seen and how is it going? Have you seen churches I mean I've written about it, churches I mean I've written about it, churches I mean I've written about it, lots of people have written about it, lots of people have written about it, lots of people have written about it, talked about it. Have you seen churches

talked about it. Have you seen churches talked about it. Have you seen churches embrace some of the principles about embrace some of the principles about embrace some of the principles about Aspbury? Yeah. What do you see? Yeah, I Aspbury? Yeah. What do you see? Yeah, I Aspbury? Yeah. What do you see? Yeah, I see. You know, I was just at a at a at a see. You know, I was just at a at a at a see. You know, I was just at a at a at a beautiful church in Orlando who is beautiful church in Orlando who is beautiful church in Orlando who is really kind of in the midst of a 10-day really kind of in the midst of a 10-day really kind of in the midst of a 10-day visitation visitation visitation that worship is just intense and they're that worship is just intense and they're that worship is just intense and they're and they're hungry to linger and and they're hungry to linger and and they're hungry to linger and worship. worship. worship. Which church? Which church? Which church? Yeah, LifeBridge. It's going to be Yeah, LifeBridge. It's going to be Yeah, LifeBridge. It's going to be transitioned. Uh it's becoming key transitioned. Uh it's becoming key transitioned. Uh it's becoming key church led by Luke Lison. church led by Luke Lison. church led by Luke Lison. Luke Lison. I was going to say I figured Luke Lison. I was going to say I figured Luke Lison. I was going to say I figured you were talking about Luke. Yeah. you were talking about Luke. Yeah. you were talking about Luke. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, if you haven't Yeah. But, you know, if you haven't Yeah. But, you know, if you haven't heard, that church is really under a heard, that church is really under a heard, that church is really under a unique visitation. unique visitation. unique visitation. And there is a level of the fear of God And there is a level of the fear of God And there is a level of the fear of God that they won't name it and they're not that they won't name it and they're not that they won't name it and they're not posting about it, but I I got to sit posting about it, but I I got to sit posting about it, but I I got to sit with their staff and be like, "This is a with their staff and be like, "This is a with their staff and be like, "This is a this smells like grandma's house. I've this smells like grandma's house. I've this smells like grandma's house. I've smelled grandma's house. This smells smelled grandma's house. This smells smelled grandma's house. This smells like grandma's house." like grandma's house." like grandma's house." And you're seeing people go there or And you're seeing people go there or And you're seeing people go there or you're seeing like Al Gordon is a great you're seeing like Al Gordon is a great you're seeing like Al Gordon is a great example. That church was probably the is example. That church was probably the is example. That church was probably the is probably the coolest looking church probably the coolest looking church probably the coolest looking church you've ever been to. It's you've ever been to. It's you've ever been to. It's Yes.

Yes. Yes. and he is the pinnacle of creativity and and he is the pinnacle of creativity and and he is the pinnacle of creativity and production and he is now production and he is now production and he is now pursuing presence and prayer and and he pursuing presence and prayer and and he pursuing presence and prayer and and he has lost five members. has lost five members. has lost five members. He has He has He has he's paid the cost. he's paid the cost. he's paid the cost. You know, you hear about what happened You know, you hear about what happened You know, you hear about what happened at Saddleback recently. at Saddleback recently. at Saddleback recently. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, for a church like You know, for a church like You know, for a church like Andy about that and Luke Yeah. Andy about that and Luke Yeah. Andy about that and Luke Yeah. It's unbelievable. or what John and John It's unbelievable. or what John and John It's unbelievable. or what John and John Tyson and Sam Gibson are doing in New Tyson and Sam Gibson are doing in New Tyson and Sam Gibson are doing in New York City or we're just seeing the York City or we're just seeing the York City or we're just seeing the church respond. There's a church in church respond. There's a church in church respond. There's a church in Lexington that I think probably is like Lexington that I think probably is like Lexington that I think probably is like the white hot core of people who have the white hot core of people who have the white hot core of people who have were there during the outpouring. It's were there during the outpouring. It's were there during the outpouring. It's called First Alliance and the pastors called First Alliance and the pastors called First Alliance and the pastors there were wrecked at the outpouring there were wrecked at the outpouring there were wrecked at the outpouring and to see how the presence is and to see how the presence is and to see how the presence is stewarded at a beautiful family church stewarded at a beautiful family church stewarded at a beautiful family church in the suburbs of Lexington, Kentucky. in the suburbs of Lexington, Kentucky. in the suburbs of Lexington, Kentucky. You'd think, You'd think, You'd think, you know, so I see it in the church. I you know, so I see it in the church. I you know, so I see it in the church. I see it on campuses.

see it on campuses. see it on campuses. I see it among leaders. I love sitting I see it among leaders. I love sitting I see it among leaders. I love sitting with leaders who, with leaders who, with leaders who, you know, are some of the greatest you know, are some of the greatest you know, are some of the greatest musicians and communicators that are now musicians and communicators that are now musicians and communicators that are now asking questions on asking questions on asking questions on on, you know, what their scorecard is, on, you know, what their scorecard is, on, you know, what their scorecard is, you know, and it's beautiful. you know, and it's beautiful. you know, and it's beautiful. I think it is beautiful. So, Zach, I I think it is beautiful. So, Zach, I I think it is beautiful. So, Zach, I mean, I think you can handle this this mean, I think you can handle this this mean, I think you can handle this this next line of questioning. Your new book next line of questioning. Your new book next line of questioning. Your new book is called Lower. It's about humility. is called Lower. It's about humility. is called Lower. It's about humility. But, you know, there's a sense you But, you know, there's a sense you But, you know, there's a sense you preached many times since Asbury. you've preached many times since Asbury. you've preached many times since Asbury. you've been involved in many services. And I been involved in many services. And I been involved in many services. And I think a lot of us would like to be like think a lot of us would like to be like think a lot of us would like to be like the New Testament. You just touch the the New Testament. You just touch the the New Testament. You just touch the gar, you know, the hem of my garment and gar, you know, the hem of my garment and gar, you know, the hem of my garment and you'll be healed. Uh but I'm I'm you'll be healed. Uh but I'm I'm you'll be healed. Uh but I'm I'm guessing you've done a lot of services guessing you've done a lot of services guessing you've done a lot of services that feel much more ordinary that feel much more ordinary that feel much more ordinary than those 16 days that you're prepping, than those 16 days that you're prepping, than those 16 days that you're prepping, you're praying, you're ready to go, and you're praying, you're ready to go, and you're praying, you're ready to go, and it's never just another Sunday, but it it's never just another Sunday, but it it's never just another Sunday, but it probably feels like just another Sunday. probably feels like just another Sunday. probably feels like just another Sunday. Can you speak into that tension a little Can you speak into that tension a little Can you speak into that tension a little bit or even that dynamic of like what do bit or even that dynamic of like what do bit or even that dynamic of like what do you do when it's sort of it's never just you do when it's sort of it's never just you do when it's sort of it's never just another service? But I think you know another service? But I think you know another service? But I think you know where I'm coming from. It's like well where I'm coming from. It's like well where I'm coming from. It's like well that was just another service. Like how that was just another service. Like how that was just another service. Like how are what is that doing inside you?

are what is that doing inside you? are what is that doing inside you? Yeah, it's a good question. And I think Yeah, it's a good question. And I think Yeah, it's a good question. And I think when it comes to like the topic of when it comes to like the topic of when it comes to like the topic of humility and in what we're talking about humility and in what we're talking about humility and in what we're talking about as we testify is is that very step as we testify is is that very step as we testify is is that very step towards self-awareness of towards self-awareness of towards self-awareness of of okay, I'm going to be faithful for of okay, I'm going to be faithful for of okay, I'm going to be faithful for because I was invited to speak here. Um because I was invited to speak here. Um because I was invited to speak here. Um I'll do my prep. I'll be myself. I pray I'll do my prep. I'll be myself. I pray I'll do my prep. I'll be myself. I pray that God would be himself. that God would be himself. that God would be himself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And something that is new for me since And something that is new for me since And something that is new for me since the outpouring that I adopted during the the outpouring that I adopted during the the outpouring that I adopted during the outpouring is um like many of us who are outpouring is um like many of us who are outpouring is um like many of us who are preach regularly, we spend a lot of time preach regularly, we spend a lot of time preach regularly, we spend a lot of time in preparation before we preach. in preparation before we preach. in preparation before we preach. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and we probably have some kind of And and we probably have some kind of And and we probably have some kind of prayer prayer prayer practice before we get on stage. practice before we get on stage. practice before we get on stage. And for a long time, I don't know if any And for a long time, I don't know if any And for a long time, I don't know if any of anybody else would relate. I would of anybody else would relate. I would of anybody else would relate. I would get done preaching and I would have no get done preaching and I would have no get done preaching and I would have no practice after I preach. I would just be practice after I preach. I would just be practice after I preach. I would just be like, I'm ready to go to lunch and take like, I'm ready to go to lunch and take like, I'm ready to go to lunch and take a nap.

a nap. a nap. You know, You know, You know, I now I do. Yeah. I now I do. Yeah. I now I do. Yeah. I now am ruthless with a practice before I now am ruthless with a practice before I now am ruthless with a practice before I transition into the rest of my day. I transition into the rest of my day. I transition into the rest of my day. What do you do? What do you do? What do you do? And it I I ask God I I try to remember And it I I ask God I I try to remember And it I I ask God I I try to remember every element of my preaching. I'll go every element of my preaching. I'll go every element of my preaching. I'll go through my notes and be like, "Oh, that through my notes and be like, "Oh, that through my notes and be like, "Oh, that hit." And I heard amens, Lord, I give hit." And I heard amens, Lord, I give hit." And I heard amens, Lord, I give you back that. you back that. you back that. Oh, that joke hit. And I really liked Oh, that joke hit. And I really liked Oh, that joke hit. And I really liked how that made me feel. I give you that how that made me feel. I give you that how that made me feel. I give you that back. Oh, I said that point and everyone back. Oh, I said that point and everyone back. Oh, I said that point and everyone looked at me like, I don't understand looked at me like, I don't understand looked at me like, I don't understand what you're trying to say. I give you what you're trying to say. I give you what you're trying to say. I give you back my insecurity in that moment. back my insecurity in that moment. back my insecurity in that moment. Wow. Wow. Wow. And then what I try to do is if there's And then what I try to do is if there's And then what I try to do is if there's if I could leave that building and get if I could leave that building and get if I could leave that building and get on the plane to come home with any crown on the plane to come home with any crown on the plane to come home with any crown on my head, I'm not leaving that room on my head, I'm not leaving that room on my head, I'm not leaving that room until a crown is at his feet. until a crown is at his feet. until a crown is at his feet. That That That Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like that practice right there, I So like that practice right there, I So like that practice right there, I won't really even move on to greeting won't really even move on to greeting won't really even move on to greeting people after a service until I do that.

people after a service until I do that. people after a service until I do that. And then sometimes if I do that and I go And then sometimes if I do that and I go And then sometimes if I do that and I go to greeting time and someone's like, to greeting time and someone's like, to greeting time and someone's like, "Wow, that was unbelievable. Hey, can I "Wow, that was unbelievable. Hey, can I "Wow, that was unbelievable. Hey, can I take a picture? I came to Asbury and take a picture? I came to Asbury and take a picture? I came to Asbury and this is just so cool." Or, "Hey, can I I this is just so cool." Or, "Hey, can I I this is just so cool." Or, "Hey, can I I want to buy all these books or whatever. want to buy all these books or whatever. want to buy all these books or whatever. I got to do that practice again because I got to do that practice again because I got to do that practice again because I'm a dad of two of three little girls, I'm a dad of two of three little girls, I'm a dad of two of three little girls, two girls at home. I want to be ready two girls at home. I want to be ready two girls at home. I want to be ready for them. I don't want to come in with a for them. I don't want to come in with a for them. I don't want to come in with a bunch of crowns cuz some stranger said I bunch of crowns cuz some stranger said I bunch of crowns cuz some stranger said I preach real good." preach real good." preach real good." No offense to that person, you know. No offense to that person, you know. No offense to that person, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But so I I give him back my wins in my But so I I give him back my wins in my But so I I give him back my wins in my sermon. I give him back my failures in sermon. I give him back my failures in sermon. I give him back my failures in my sermon. I give him back the laughs my sermon. I give him back the laughs my sermon. I give him back the laughs and the things that kind of tickled my and the things that kind of tickled my and the things that kind of tickled my my ego, the the high fives after the And my ego, the the high fives after the And my ego, the the high fives after the And what that helps me do is I then can go what that helps me do is I then can go what that helps me do is I then can go for it. I don't have to subdue my for it. I don't have to subdue my for it. I don't have to subdue my giftedness. giftedness. giftedness. So many of us think that humility means So many of us think that humility means So many of us think that humility means subduing our giftedness. When humility subduing our giftedness. When humility subduing our giftedness. When humility is actually what the definition we have is actually what the definition we have is actually what the definition we have in the book is consecrated confidence in the book is consecrated confidence in the book is consecrated confidence is it's a confidence that I have gifts.

is it's a confidence that I have gifts. is it's a confidence that I have gifts. I'm going to consecrate it to the Lord I'm going to consecrate it to the Lord I'm going to consecrate it to the Lord and use my gifts. We would never look at and use my gifts. We would never look at and use my gifts. We would never look at a piano player and be like, you're a piano player and be like, you're a piano player and be like, you're getting kind of cocky. Can you not be as getting kind of cocky. Can you not be as getting kind of cocky. Can you not be as good at piano? good at piano? good at piano? No, you just give it to the Lord. You No, you just give it to the Lord. You No, you just give it to the Lord. You know, like you and I know some know, like you and I know some know, like you and I know some communicators, you being one of them, communicators, you being one of them, communicators, you being one of them, that are are just unbelievably gifted. I that are are just unbelievably gifted. I that are are just unbelievably gifted. I don't want you to stop being good at don't want you to stop being good at don't want you to stop being good at what you do, Carrie. I just want you to what you do, Carrie. I just want you to what you do, Carrie. I just want you to consecrate it, and just don't take any consecrate it, and just don't take any consecrate it, and just don't take any crowns. And if you're really good at crowns. And if you're really good at crowns. And if you're really good at what you're good, that do that just what you're good, that do that just what you're good, that do that just means more crowns at his feet. Praise means more crowns at his feet. Praise means more crowns at his feet. Praise God. God. God. That is so singularly helpful, Zach. That is so singularly helpful, Zach. That is so singularly helpful, Zach. Thank you for sharing that. first of all Thank you for sharing that. first of all Thank you for sharing that. first of all owned. I don't have a post sermon owned. I don't have a post sermon owned. I don't have a post sermon routine other than all of those things. routine other than all of those things. routine other than all of those things. The laughs, the we don't do amens in our The laughs, the we don't do amens in our The laughs, the we don't do amens in our tradition, but if we did, they would be tradition, but if we did, they would be tradition, but if we did, they would be there some Sundays. Uh the applause, the there some Sundays. Uh the applause, the there some Sundays. Uh the applause, the the the crowd reaction, the people the the crowd reaction, the people the the crowd reaction, the people taking notes.

taking notes. taking notes. In my I'm owned on this. I'm just In my I'm owned on this. I'm just In my I'm owned on this. I'm just confessing live uh in front of an confessing live uh in front of an confessing live uh in front of an audience. audience. audience. I would, you know, you said that was a I would, you know, you said that was a I would, you know, you said that was a stinker. If all of those things happened stinker. If all of those things happened stinker. If all of those things happened in a sermon, I'd come home and I'd tell in a sermon, I'd come home and I'd tell in a sermon, I'd come home and I'd tell my wife, I crushed it. I think it went my wife, I crushed it. I think it went my wife, I crushed it. I think it went really well. And I might be a little really well. And I might be a little really well. And I might be a little more humble than that, but inside I'm more humble than that, but inside I'm more humble than that, but inside I'm going, I killed that. I want to do that going, I killed that. I want to do that going, I killed that. I want to do that again next time. Let's just be honest again next time. Let's just be honest again next time. Let's just be honest about our humanity. about our humanity. about our humanity. And I and and I love the fact that you And I and and I love the fact that you And I and and I love the fact that you said said said then I can go for it and be myself then I can go for it and be myself then I can go for it and be myself because you do want to use all of your because you do want to use all of your because you do want to use all of your gifting. And I've been puzzling over gifting. And I've been puzzling over gifting. And I've been puzzling over this. I mean, we went to a John Mayer this. I mean, we went to a John Mayer this. I mean, we went to a John Mayer concert a few years ago. I don't know concert a few years ago. I don't know concert a few years ago. I don't know that there's anyone better alive on that there's anyone better alive on that there's anyone better alive on guitar than John Mayer. Whether you like guitar than John Mayer. Whether you like guitar than John Mayer. Whether you like him or not, he is unbelievable. And I him or not, he is unbelievable. And I him or not, he is unbelievable. And I mean, his face is contorted. He leaves mean, his face is contorted. He leaves mean, his face is contorted. He leaves it all out there on the stage pouring it all out there on the stage pouring it all out there on the stage pouring his heart out. And I'm reminded of that his heart out. And I'm reminded of that his heart out. And I'm reminded of that quote, "The glory of God is man fully quote, "The glory of God is man fully quote, "The glory of God is man fully alive." And alive." And alive." And you know, so many of us are held back you know, so many of us are held back you know, so many of us are held back by, oh well, that might be too good or by, oh well, that might be too good or by, oh well, that might be too good or this false humility or this tempering or this false humility or this tempering or this false humility or this tempering or this I really crushed it and now it went this I really crushed it and now it went this I really crushed it and now it went to my head, you know, all of that. And I to my head, you know, all of that. And I to my head, you know, all of that. And I think that is such a helpful framing. I think that is such a helpful framing. I think that is such a helpful framing. I am going to adopt that. I think that is am going to adopt that. I think that is am going to adopt that. I think that is really helpful. And thank you for really helpful. And thank you for really helpful. And thank you for helping me connect some dots on helping me connect some dots on helping me connect some dots on a very relevant topic.

a very relevant topic. a very relevant topic. Yeah. Well, and I think something I'm Yeah. Well, and I think something I'm Yeah. Well, and I think something I'm very passionate about is the church has very passionate about is the church has very passionate about is the church has been subdued. been subdued. been subdued. Yes. Yes. Yes. Because of our misunderstanding of Because of our misunderstanding of Because of our misunderstanding of humility. humility. humility. Well, you're right. Because if somebody Well, you're right. Because if somebody Well, you're right. Because if somebody is really good, what do we like to do? is really good, what do we like to do? is really good, what do we like to do? We like to shoot them down. We like to shoot them down. We like to shoot them down. Yeah. Instead of just consecrating it. Yeah. Instead of just consecrating it. Yeah. Instead of just consecrating it. Like like the thing is Carrie is you do Like like the thing is Carrie is you do Like like the thing is Carrie is you do is you do crush it. is you do crush it. is you do crush it. And it's and it's not humility to say, And it's and it's not humility to say, And it's and it's not humility to say, "Oh, no. I didn't do that in the same "Oh, no. I didn't do that in the same "Oh, no. I didn't do that in the same way that like I am actually pretty good way that like I am actually pretty good way that like I am actually pretty good at preaching. I'm realizing. at preaching. I'm realizing. at preaching. I'm realizing. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Like if not I wouldn't be invited. Like if not I wouldn't be invited. Like if not I wouldn't be invited. Like I think it would have worn out by Like I think it would have worn out by Like I think it would have worn out by now that the Asbury story is out there now that the Asbury story is out there now that the Asbury story is out there right now. I don't think I'm the best right now. I don't think I'm the best right now. I don't think I'm the best but but but I'm going to be the best I can because I I'm going to be the best I can because I I'm going to be the best I can because I don't muster up that gift the Lord don't muster up that gift the Lord don't muster up that gift the Lord giveth to me. And it's a and wouldn't it giveth to me. And it's a and wouldn't it giveth to me. And it's a and wouldn't it say love for the church to be subdued say love for the church to be subdued say love for the church to be subdued and call it humility when really it's and call it humility when really it's and call it humility when really it's actually being afraid of being proudful actually being afraid of being proudful actually being afraid of being proudful or being perceived some way or being or being perceived some way or being or being perceived some way or being cancelled. So we should actually be the cancelled. So we should actually be the cancelled. So we should actually be the most vibrant communities most vibrant communities most vibrant communities because because because we have the spirit of the living God we have the spirit of the living God we have the spirit of the living God inside of us and we are witnessing to inside of us and we are witnessing to inside of us and we are witnessing to God's goodness as missionary disciples.

God's goodness as missionary disciples. God's goodness as missionary disciples. So So So that's why I love this topic of humility that's why I love this topic of humility that's why I love this topic of humility is actually we should be exceptional is actually we should be exceptional is actually we should be exceptional because it's unto the Lord because it's unto the Lord because it's unto the Lord and consecrated because God gave us it. and consecrated because God gave us it. and consecrated because God gave us it. And it's such a helpful framing. It And it's such a helpful framing. It And it's such a helpful framing. It really is. God and I think I think we really is. God and I think I think we really is. God and I think I think we need it, Zach, because you're right. You need it, Zach, because you're right. You need it, Zach, because you're right. You can temper your gifting. You know, I I can temper your gifting. You know, I I can temper your gifting. You know, I I had a big birthday earlier this year and had a big birthday earlier this year and had a big birthday earlier this year and I've been thinking I said to my I've been thinking I said to my I've been thinking I said to my counselor, I want this decade to be counselor, I want this decade to be counselor, I want this decade to be about mastery and I picked a couple of about mastery and I picked a couple of about mastery and I picked a couple of areas where I really want to master. And areas where I really want to master. And areas where I really want to master. And he's like, uh, you're already pretty he's like, uh, you're already pretty he's like, uh, you're already pretty good at that stuff. And I'm like, no, good at that stuff. And I'm like, no, good at that stuff. And I'm like, no, I'm not. I can't, you know, so it's it's I'm not. I can't, you know, so it's it's I'm not. I can't, you know, so it's it's such an awkward thing in the church. Um, such an awkward thing in the church. Um, such an awkward thing in the church. Um, we have covered a lot of ground. I we have covered a lot of ground. I we have covered a lot of ground. I barely looked at any questions I sent barely looked at any questions I sent barely looked at any questions I sent you ahead of time, so I'm wondering what you ahead of time, so I'm wondering what you ahead of time, so I'm wondering what I'm missing. I'm missing. I'm missing. Um, what have we not covered that we need to what have we not covered that we need to cover? There's so much that I would love to There's so much that I would love to share and there's so much adoration and share and there's so much adoration and share and there's so much adoration and respect for you that any conversation I respect for you that any conversation I respect for you that any conversation I could have. But we got to tell stories could have. But we got to tell stories could have. But we got to tell stories about Asbury. We got to talk a little about Asbury. We got to talk a little about Asbury. We got to talk a little bit about humility. We did bit about humility. We did bit about humility. We did Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Uh, write this book coming out of Asbury Uh, write this book coming out of Asbury Uh, write this book coming out of Asbury called Lower. called Lower. called Lower. And it ultimately comes from this idea And it ultimately comes from this idea And it ultimately comes from this idea from Andrew Murray's book on humility from Andrew Murray's book on humility from Andrew Murray's book on humility that that that this he has this quote this he has this quote this he has this quote this is the gift to the higher life this is the gift to the higher life this is the gift to the higher life lower down just as rain falls and lower down just as rain falls and lower down just as rain falls and collects in the lowest places so that collects in the lowest places so that collects in the lowest places so that God when he finds a man empty and abased God when he finds a man empty and abased God when he finds a man empty and abased can flow in with his grace and power and can flow in with his grace and power and can flow in with his grace and power and exalt exalt exalt that you know when if the rain is that you know when if the rain is that you know when if the rain is falling I want it to puddle up in me cuz falling I want it to puddle up in me cuz falling I want it to puddle up in me cuz I'm a low person. If the rain is I'm a low person. If the rain is I'm a low person. If the rain is falling, I want to puddle up in our falling, I want to puddle up in our falling, I want to puddle up in our churches because we're low communities. churches because we're low communities. churches because we're low communities. And in a world where we climb in victory And in a world where we climb in victory And in a world where we climb in victory and plant our flags, Jesus descends and plant our flags, Jesus descends and plant our flags, Jesus descends all the way to the cross. all the way to the cross. all the way to the cross. And where the world would say that's the And where the world would say that's the And where the world would say that's the lowest point in his life, it is actually lowest point in his life, it is actually lowest point in his life, it is actually biblically the highest pinnacle point of biblically the highest pinnacle point of biblically the highest pinnacle point of his life until we get to see him around his life until we get to see him around his life until we get to see him around the crown or around the throne. And um the crown or around the throne. And um the crown or around the throne. And um that's the book, but we got to talk that's the book, but we got to talk that's the book, but we got to talk about that. Uh got to raspberry, we got about that. Uh got to raspberry, we got about that. Uh got to raspberry, we got to talk about Gen Z. I loved it and I'm to talk about Gen Z. I loved it and I'm to talk about Gen Z. I loved it and I'm just honored to even be a voice in the just honored to even be a voice in the just honored to even be a voice in the in the conversation. So, in the conversation. So, in the conversation. So, well, you know, that's sort of it was well, you know, that's sort of it was well, you know, that's sort of it was actually talking to some of the people actually talking to some of the people actually talking to some of the people that we've mentioned so far, Luke Lef that we've mentioned so far, Luke Lef that we've mentioned so far, Luke Lef Fever and I happened to have dinner with Fever and I happened to have dinner with Fever and I happened to have dinner with him and I thought, you know what, we him and I thought, you know what, we him and I thought, you know what, we need to hearing about what's happened at need to hearing about what's happened at need to hearing about what's happened at Saddleback earlier this year and uh

Saddleback earlier this year and uh Saddleback earlier this year and uh different things that honestly are different things that honestly are different things that honestly are happening in real time right now. That's happening in real time right now. That's happening in real time right now. That's what I want to do this series. And Zach, what I want to do this series. And Zach, what I want to do this series. And Zach, I can't imagine a a better introduction I can't imagine a a better introduction I can't imagine a a better introduction to it. I I wasn't there, but I feel like to it. I I wasn't there, but I feel like to it. I I wasn't there, but I feel like I was there now thanks to your I was there now thanks to your I was there now thanks to your conversation. Oh, I do have one more conversation. Oh, I do have one more conversation. Oh, I do have one more question. Um, yeah, couple maybe. Do you question. Um, yeah, couple maybe. Do you question. Um, yeah, couple maybe. Do you have a few more minutes? have a few more minutes? have a few more minutes? Of course. Of course. Of course. Yeah. I remember the decision about what Yeah. I remember the decision about what Yeah. I remember the decision about what to call it because when it was breaking to call it because when it was breaking to call it because when it was breaking out at Asbury, they called it the Asbury out at Asbury, they called it the Asbury out at Asbury, they called it the Asbury revival and then your council and revival and then your council and revival and then your council and perhaps the president decided they were perhaps the president decided they were perhaps the president decided they were going to call it the outpouring. Can you going to call it the outpouring. Can you going to call it the outpouring. Can you explain why it wasn't a revival? I think explain why it wasn't a revival? I think explain why it wasn't a revival? I think the other thing was awakening why uh the the other thing was awakening why uh the the other thing was awakening why uh the group decided to call it the outpouring group decided to call it the outpouring group decided to call it the outpouring rather than any other choice. rather than any other choice. rather than any other choice. Yeah. So we had a gentleman on our team Yeah. So we had a gentleman on our team Yeah. So we had a gentleman on our team named Dr. David Thomas who spent a lot named Dr. David Thomas who spent a lot named Dr. David Thomas who spent a lot of time researching spiritual awakening. of time researching spiritual awakening. of time researching spiritual awakening. Um and he I'll share what he said and Um and he I'll share what he said and Um and he I'll share what he said and what Kevin said and both of those are what Kevin said and both of those are what Kevin said and both of those are great. One is his revival historian is great. One is his revival historian is great. One is his revival historian is seemingly there is many outpourings that seemingly there is many outpourings that seemingly there is many outpourings that lead to a revival. You speak of revival lead to a revival. You speak of revival lead to a revival. You speak of revival in the past tense like seeing has it in the past tense like seeing has it in the past tense like seeing has it really revived something? We look really revived something? We look really revived something? We look backwards. So we didn't feel like we backwards. So we didn't feel like we backwards. So we didn't feel like we could say there it is revival and that's could say there it is revival and that's could say there it is revival and that's no offense to anyone who's calling other no offense to anyone who's calling other no offense to anyone who's calling other things revival.

things revival. things revival. Um, but we didn't feel like we had the Um, but we didn't feel like we had the Um, but we didn't feel like we had the right to call it revival until we saw right to call it revival until we saw right to call it revival until we saw what would really last. what would really last. what would really last. Sure. Sure. Sure. But we saw the rain falling uniquely. So But we saw the rain falling uniquely. So But we saw the rain falling uniquely. So many outpourings lead to revival. many outpourings lead to revival. many outpourings lead to revival. Revival sustained leads to global Revival sustained leads to global Revival sustained leads to global awakening. That's what David Thomas awakening. That's what David Thomas awakening. That's what David Thomas talks about. talks about. talks about. And Kevin Brown just kind of poked in And Kevin Brown just kind of poked in And Kevin Brown just kind of poked in the balloon to release the pressure and the balloon to release the pressure and the balloon to release the pressure and point us to the story. I believe it's in point us to the story. I believe it's in point us to the story. I believe it's in John 9 when uh when the the boy was John 9 when uh when the the boy was John 9 when uh when the the boy was healed from blindness healed from blindness healed from blindness and the Pharisees are trying to like and the Pharisees are trying to like and the Pharisees are trying to like nail it down like is he the Christ? Did nail it down like is he the Christ? Did nail it down like is he the Christ? Did he heal you? Like and he's trying to get he heal you? Like and he's trying to get he heal you? Like and he's trying to get the Pharisees are trying to get everyone the Pharisees are trying to get everyone the Pharisees are trying to get everyone in trouble to try to name it. And the in trouble to try to name it. And the in trouble to try to name it. And the blind beggar said the blind man says all blind beggar said the blind man says all blind beggar said the blind man says all I know was I was blind and now I see. I know was I was blind and now I see. I know was I was blind and now I see. And this kind of this like culture and And this kind of this like culture and And this kind of this like culture and even religion will try to get us to name even religion will try to get us to name even religion will try to get us to name it something. And I remember just how it something. And I remember just how it something. And I remember just how the pressure was off when we were like the pressure was off when we were like the pressure was off when we were like we could just call it Wednesday.

we could just call it Wednesday. we could just call it Wednesday. We just we just know that God showed up We just we just know that God showed up We just we just know that God showed up in a very unique way. So in a very unique way. So in a very unique way. So that's the answer I like. But David that's the answer I like. But David that's the answer I like. But David Thomas also beautifully kind of picks Thomas also beautifully kind of picks Thomas also beautifully kind of picks paints this picture of multiple outpours paints this picture of multiple outpours paints this picture of multiple outpours could lead to a revival. seeing if it could lead to a revival. seeing if it could lead to a revival. seeing if it really does revive something and then really does revive something and then really does revive something and then sustained revival might lead to sustained revival might lead to sustained revival might lead to awakening. So, we chose outpouring. awakening. So, we chose outpouring. awakening. So, we chose outpouring. I think that's good to know. Um, I've I think that's good to know. Um, I've I think that's good to know. Um, I've I've I've done videos on this and I've I've done videos on this and I've I've done videos on this and written about this earlier this year, written about this earlier this year, written about this earlier this year, but another another thing that I've seen but another another thing that I've seen but another another thing that I've seen and having been in the lead pastor seat and having been in the lead pastor seat and having been in the lead pastor seat and teaching pastor seat for decades. and teaching pastor seat for decades. and teaching pastor seat for decades. You know, this temptation is real. The You know, this temptation is real. The You know, this temptation is real. The temptation, Zach, is to want to bottle temptation, Zach, is to want to bottle temptation, Zach, is to want to bottle it or manufacture it. manufacture it to it or manufacture it. manufacture it to it or manufacture it. manufacture it to get it started. And look, we have a get it started. And look, we have a get it started. And look, we have a revival, too. Look at how full the room revival, too. Look at how full the room revival, too. Look at how full the room was. Look at the salvations. Look at was. Look at the salvations. Look at was. Look at the salvations. Look at Perhaps you've seen that on social. I Perhaps you've seen that on social. I Perhaps you've seen that on social. I think like I've seen that on social from think like I've seen that on social from think like I've seen that on social from time to time. Or then once you have it, time to time. Or then once you have it, time to time. Or then once you have it, you want to bottle it and recreate it. you want to bottle it and recreate it. you want to bottle it and recreate it. It's like, and next week we'll be doing It's like, and next week we'll be doing It's like, and next week we'll be doing this again. So, I'm just like confessing this again. So, I'm just like confessing this again. So, I'm just like confessing as a real human being that those are as a real human being that those are as a real human being that those are temptations. And I always tried to draw temptations. And I always tried to draw temptations. And I always tried to draw a line and I'd never experienced a line and I'd never experienced a line and I'd never experienced anything close to, you know, Asbury in anything close to, you know, Asbury in anything close to, you know, Asbury in in all my years in ministry.

in all my years in ministry. in all my years in ministry. But, you know, I I think about a line But, you know, I I think about a line But, you know, I I think about a line between evoking and manipulating. between evoking and manipulating. between evoking and manipulating. If you're if you're watching a show or a If you're if you're watching a show or a If you're if you're watching a show or a video and it makes you cry, there's two video and it makes you cry, there's two video and it makes you cry, there's two ways that happens. One is you kind of ways that happens. One is you kind of ways that happens. One is you kind of get manipulated. You're like, uh, and get manipulated. You're like, uh, and get manipulated. You're like, uh, and you don't feel good after. you're like you don't feel good after. you're like you don't feel good after. you're like that was cheap or whatever. Another is that was cheap or whatever. Another is that was cheap or whatever. Another is to evoke and it it takes you back to to evoke and it it takes you back to to evoke and it it takes you back to grandma's house who you missed so badly grandma's house who you missed so badly grandma's house who you missed so badly or it takes you back to Disney before or it takes you back to Disney before or it takes you back to Disney before your dad left your dad left your dad left and the tears are real and the tears are real and the tears are real and they come from the center of who you and they come from the center of who you and they come from the center of who you are. To me, that's evoking. The first is are. To me, that's evoking. The first is are. To me, that's evoking. The first is manipulating. It was good marketing. Um, manipulating. It was good marketing. Um, manipulating. It was good marketing. Um, the second is no, that's a real human the second is no, that's a real human the second is no, that's a real human emotion and you pulled it out of me and emotion and you pulled it out of me and emotion and you pulled it out of me and I want to be as far as, you know, it I want to be as far as, you know, it I want to be as far as, you know, it depends on me, somebody who evokes but depends on me, somebody who evokes but depends on me, somebody who evokes but doesn't manipulate. So, I'm just doesn't manipulate. So, I'm just doesn't manipulate. So, I'm just wondering and and I'm I'm thinking about wondering and and I'm I'm thinking about wondering and and I'm I'm thinking about really honest, hardworking, hard praying really honest, hardworking, hard praying really honest, hardworking, hard praying pastors who have never seen this, who pastors who have never seen this, who pastors who have never seen this, who are like, Lord, are you passing over me?

are like, Lord, are you passing over me? are like, Lord, are you passing over me? any any final words on those of us who any any final words on those of us who any any final words on those of us who would love for this to happen but would love for this to happen but would love for this to happen but perhaps it hasn't happened perhaps it hasn't happened perhaps it hasn't happened you know and evoking versus manipulating you know and evoking versus manipulating you know and evoking versus manipulating and trying to bottle something and make and trying to bottle something and make and trying to bottle something and make it happen again. Yeah, I think the two it happen again. Yeah, I think the two it happen again. Yeah, I think the two things I would say first is things I would say first is things I would say first is how could you prepare your place to be how could you prepare your place to be how could you prepare your place to be the most empty and entrustable place for the most empty and entrustable place for the most empty and entrustable place for him to fill? him to fill? him to fill? Like how do you prepare a manger for Like how do you prepare a manger for Like how do you prepare a manger for Jesus to come? How do you be how do you Jesus to come? How do you be how do you Jesus to come? How do you be how do you prepare a table for him to come and give prepare a table for him to come and give prepare a table for him to come and give it your all? it your all? it your all? But this is really key. Do it unto the But this is really key. Do it unto the But this is really key. Do it unto the Lord and not unto revival. Lord and not unto revival. Lord and not unto revival. Right? Right? Right? Ask these hard questions about preaching Ask these hard questions about preaching Ask these hard questions about preaching and the conversation we had about and the conversation we had about and the conversation we had about ecosystems. Wrestle with that. Wrestle ecosystems. Wrestle with that. Wrestle ecosystems. Wrestle with that. Wrestle with how you're creating space for the with how you're creating space for the with how you're creating space for the next generation to use their voice.

next generation to use their voice. next generation to use their voice. Testimonies, confession, lingering in Testimonies, confession, lingering in Testimonies, confession, lingering in worship. wrestle with that and create worship. wrestle with that and create worship. wrestle with that and create the most entrustable vessel that if the most entrustable vessel that if the most entrustable vessel that if Jesus wanted to uniquely pour out, he Jesus wanted to uniquely pour out, he Jesus wanted to uniquely pour out, he would say that place. would say that place. would say that place. I like that place. Knowing that he can I like that place. Knowing that he can I like that place. Knowing that he can do wherever he whatever he wants, do wherever he whatever he wants, do wherever he whatever he wants, wherever he wants, whenever he wants. wherever he wants, whenever he wants. wherever he wants, whenever he wants. And then the last thing I would say, and And then the last thing I would say, and And then the last thing I would say, and I've wrestled with this, I have a great I've wrestled with this, I have a great I've wrestled with this, I have a great counselor, but but I also really can counselor, but but I also really can counselor, but but I also really can honestly say this. The thing I am the honestly say this. The thing I am the honestly say this. The thing I am the most proud of, Carrie, most proud of, Carrie, most proud of, Carrie, and the reason why the book could do and the reason why the book could do and the reason why the book could do very poorly or the book could do very very poorly or the book could do very very poorly or the book could do very well, I could be done with podcasts or I well, I could be done with podcasts or I well, I could be done with podcasts or I could keep on growing and whatever is could keep on growing and whatever is could keep on growing and whatever is I'm way more excited that I'm a friend I'm way more excited that I'm a friend I'm way more excited that I'm a friend of Jesus than I am the guy who preached of Jesus than I am the guy who preached of Jesus than I am the guy who preached at Osprey. at Osprey. at Osprey. Cool. Cool. Cool. The prize is Jesus. The prize is John The prize is Jesus. The prize is John The prize is Jesus. The prize is John 15:15. I am not a slave. I'm a friend. 15:15. I am not a slave. I'm a friend. 15:15. I am not a slave. I'm a friend. it. The prize is Romans 8:14 that I am a it. The prize is Romans 8:14 that I am a it. The prize is Romans 8:14 that I am a child of God. The prize is John 14 and child of God. The prize is John 14 and child of God. The prize is John 14 and John 16 that I am a temple the Holy John 16 that I am a temple the Holy John 16 that I am a temple the Holy Spirit fills.

Spirit fills. Spirit fills. A gift was that I got to be a part of A gift was that I got to be a part of A gift was that I got to be a part of Aspberry. But the prize is Jesus. So Aspberry. But the prize is Jesus. So Aspberry. But the prize is Jesus. So pastor, the prize is you're a friend of pastor, the prize is you're a friend of pastor, the prize is you're a friend of Jesus. Jesus. Jesus. The prize is you're a son and daughter The prize is you're a son and daughter The prize is you're a son and daughter of God. You're a temple for the Holy of God. You're a temple for the Holy of God. You're a temple for the Holy Spirit to fill. Now, if God uniquely Spirit to fill. Now, if God uniquely Spirit to fill. Now, if God uniquely moves in your midst, that's a gift. But moves in your midst, that's a gift. But moves in your midst, that's a gift. But that's not the prize of everything we're that's not the prize of everything we're that's not the prize of everything we're doing. So, Galatians 6:9 is how I've doing. So, Galatians 6:9 is how I've doing. So, Galatians 6:9 is how I've been ending most of my conversations, been ending most of my conversations, been ending most of my conversations, don't grow weary in doing good, don't grow weary in doing good, don't grow weary in doing good, for in due time you'll reap what you sow for in due time you'll reap what you sow for in due time you'll reap what you sow if you don't lose heart. So, if you've if you don't lose heart. So, if you've if you don't lose heart. So, if you've lost heart for growing weary, lost heart for growing weary, lost heart for growing weary, you have a friend in Carrie and I you have a friend in Carrie and I you have a friend in Carrie and I don't grow weary. We're with you, bro. don't grow weary. We're with you, bro. don't grow weary. We're with you, bro. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're with you, sister. We're with you, sister. We're with you, sister. Yeah. And the thing I love about our Yeah. And the thing I love about our Yeah. And the thing I love about our faith, the thing I love about God is the faith, the thing I love about God is the faith, the thing I love about God is the spirit blows where it will. The wind spirit blows where it will. The wind spirit blows where it will. The wind blows where it will. And for you, back blows where it will. And for you, back blows where it will. And for you, back to where we started an hour and a bit to where we started an hour and a bit to where we started an hour and a bit ago, it was just another chapel service ago, it was just another chapel service ago, it was just another chapel service where mandatory attendance and kids where mandatory attendance and kids where mandatory attendance and kids wearing hoodies and AirPods. And God did wearing hoodies and AirPods. And God did wearing hoodies and AirPods. And God did something in his sovereign goodness that something in his sovereign goodness that something in his sovereign goodness that shocked and surprised everybody in the shocked and surprised everybody in the shocked and surprised everybody in the room.

room. room. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Now, that's cool. Now, that's cool. Now, that's cool. Me included. Me included. Me included. Yeah, that's cool. Well, your new book Yeah, that's cool. Well, your new book Yeah, that's cool. Well, your new book is called Lower. Want to thank you so is called Lower. Want to thank you so is called Lower. Want to thank you so much for writing that. Um, it's much for writing that. Um, it's much for writing that. Um, it's available everywhere. And if people want available everywhere. And if people want available everywhere. And if people want to find you online, Zach, where's a to find you online, Zach, where's a to find you online, Zach, where's a really good place to find you these really good place to find you these really good place to find you these days? days? days? Yeah, you know, I'm pretty low-key, but Yeah, you know, I'm pretty low-key, but Yeah, you know, I'm pretty low-key, but I am on Instagram, so that's just Zack I am on Instagram, so that's just Zack I am on Instagram, so that's just Zack Mirrees. And then we have a website that Mirrees. And then we have a website that Mirrees. And then we have a website that we had to create just to help kind of we had to create just to help kind of we had to create just to help kind of corral conversation. So, that's corral conversation. So, that's corral conversation. So, that's Zackmirs.com. Zackmirs.com. Zackmirs.com. Great. Great. Great. Yeah. Thank you, bro. Yeah. Thank you, bro. Yeah. Thank you, bro. Thank you so much. I really, really have Thank you so much. I really, really have Thank you so much. I really, really have appreciated this and uh what a great appreciated this and uh what a great appreciated this and uh what a great introduction or overview for all of us introduction or overview for all of us introduction or overview for all of us who weren't in the room. Thank you.