The Science Behind Prayer, Mindset & Overcoming Limiting Beliefs | Nir Eyal

He is reported to have burst into an He is reported to have burst into an emergency room, emergency room, emergency room, uh, pills in hand. He collapsed on the uh, pills in hand. He collapsed on the uh, pills in hand. He collapsed on the floor and as soon as the medical staff floor and as soon as the medical staff floor and as soon as the medical staff picked him up, he said, "I took all my picked him up, he said, "I took all my picked him up, he said, "I took all my pills. I took all my pills." He's pills. I took all my pills." He's pills. I took all my pills." He's convinced he's overdosed on whatever convinced he's overdosed on whatever convinced he's overdosed on whatever pills he has, but he doesn't know what's pills he has, but he doesn't know what's pills he has, but he doesn't know what's in the pills because the pills were in the pills because the pills were in the pills because the pills were given to him in a drug trial. So, they given to him in a drug trial. So, they given to him in a drug trial. So, they call the people who are running this call the people who are running this call the people who are running this study and they say, "What is in this study and they say, "What is in this study and they say, "What is in this pills? We need to know what's in them so pills? We need to know what's in them so pills? We need to know what's in them so that we can cure this guy." and they that we can cure this guy." and they that we can cure this guy." and they say, "Oh, he was in the placebo group." say, "Oh, he was in the placebo group." say, "Oh, he was in the placebo group." They tell this guy that's what happened. They tell this guy that's what happened. They tell this guy that's what happened. And within 15 minutes, his low blood And within 15 minutes, his low blood And within 15 minutes, his low blood pressure, his failing heartbeat, all pressure, his failing heartbeat, all pressure, his failing heartbeat, all this stuff immediately goes back to this stuff immediately goes back to this stuff immediately goes back to normal, and he feels fine. Welcome to normal, and he feels fine. Welcome to normal, and he feels fine. Welcome to the Carrie New Hoff Leadership Podcast, the Carrie New Hoff Leadership Podcast, the Carrie New Hoff Leadership Podcast, man. I'm so glad you're joining us. If man. I'm so glad you're joining us. If man. I'm so glad you're joining us. If you have ever said to yourself, "Yeah, you have ever said to yourself, "Yeah, you have ever said to yourself, "Yeah, it's not going to work for me," or, it's not going to work for me," or, it's not going to work for me," or, "Nah, I don't think so." Or, "You know "Nah, I don't think so." Or, "You know "Nah, I don't think so." Or, "You know what? Just doesn't work around here." what? Just doesn't work around here." what? Just doesn't work around here." You're going to love this episode You're going to love this episode You're going to love this episode because what we're talking about is because what we're talking about is because what we're talking about is self-limiting beliefs and how to self-limiting beliefs and how to self-limiting beliefs and how to overcome them. Near Al is my guest. He overcome them. Near Al is my guest. He overcome them. Near Al is my guest. He is the best-selling author of Hooked and is the best-selling author of Hooked and is the best-selling author of Hooked and Indistractible. Now, we're going to talk Indistractible. Now, we're going to talk Indistractible. Now, we're going to talk about his latest project. We're going to about his latest project. We're going to about his latest project. We're going to talk about belief. Basically, how to go talk about belief. Basically, how to go talk about belief. Basically, how to go beyond what you believe. That's beyond what you believe. That's beyond what you believe. That's self-limiting you. This is more than woo self-limiting you. This is more than woo self-limiting you. This is more than woo woo. A lot of science in it. He's an woo. A lot of science in it. He's an woo. A lot of science in it. He's an entrepreneur, former lecturer at entrepreneur, former lecturer at entrepreneur, former lecturer at Stanford. He writes at the intersection Stanford. He writes at the intersection Stanford. He writes at the intersection of business, behavior, and the brain, of business, behavior, and the brain, of business, behavior, and the brain, helping people and companies harness helping people and companies harness helping people and companies harness psychology for a lasting change. So, I psychology for a lasting change. So, I psychology for a lasting change. So, I think you're really going to like this.

think you're really going to like this. think you're really going to like this. Hey, if you're new here, welcome. And I Hey, if you're new here, welcome. And I Hey, if you're new here, welcome. And I would love to have you hit subscribe or would love to have you hit subscribe or would love to have you hit subscribe or follow wherever you're watching, follow wherever you're watching, follow wherever you're watching, wherever you're listening. And now to my wherever you're listening. And now to my wherever you're listening. And now to my conversation with Near Al. Well, Near, conversation with Near Al. Well, Near, conversation with Near Al. Well, Near, welcome back. It's so good to have you welcome back. It's so good to have you welcome back. It's so good to have you again on the podcast. again on the podcast. again on the podcast. >> Thank you. My pleasure. Honor to be >> Thank you. My pleasure. Honor to be >> Thank you. My pleasure. Honor to be back. back. back. >> Yeah. So, you've written on some really >> Yeah. So, you've written on some really >> Yeah. So, you've written on some really influential topics. I mean hooked and influential topics. I mean hooked and influential topics. I mean hooked and then indistractable, right? It was a then indistractable, right? It was a then indistractable, right? It was a whole idea back in the early days of whole idea back in the early days of whole idea back in the early days of social media about how to create a social media about how to create a social media about how to create a compelling message. That book was wildly compelling message. That book was wildly compelling message. That book was wildly successful. Then you wrote a book about successful. Then you wrote a book about successful. Then you wrote a book about being indistractible. How do you get rid being indistractible. How do you get rid being indistractible. How do you get rid of all the things hooking you in kind of of all the things hooking you in kind of of all the things hooking you in kind of and now you're writing about belief? Not and now you're writing about belief? Not and now you're writing about belief? Not in terms of like religion per se, but in terms of like religion per se, but in terms of like religion per se, but what made you pick this topic? Why is it what made you pick this topic? Why is it what made you pick this topic? Why is it important and why now? important and why now? important and why now? >> Yeah. So there's a few reasons. Uh the >> Yeah. So there's a few reasons. Uh the >> Yeah. So there's a few reasons. Uh the main reason was that after I wrote main reason was that after I wrote main reason was that after I wrote indistractible. Uh I started getting indistractible. Uh I started getting indistractible. Uh I started getting some peculiar calls. Uh I do these some peculiar calls. Uh I do these some peculiar calls. Uh I do these office hours with anyone who wants to office hours with anyone who wants to office hours with anyone who wants to call and uh I book an hour a week, you call and uh I book an hour a week, you call and uh I book an hour a week, you know, 15 minutes. So there's four calls know, 15 minutes. So there's four calls know, 15 minutes. So there's four calls per week. And uh you know the book book per week. And uh you know the book book per week. And uh you know the book book did very well, sold half a million did very well, sold half a million did very well, sold half a million copies. And so I it got I kind of got a copies. And so I it got I kind of got a copies. And so I it got I kind of got a backlog of a few months. And every every backlog of a few months. And every every backlog of a few months. And every every once in a while someone would call me once in a while someone would call me once in a while someone would call me and and the the call would sound like and and the the call would sound like and and the the call would sound like this. They would say, "Hey Ne, I um I this. They would say, "Hey Ne, I um I this. They would say, "Hey Ne, I um I read your book. I really liked it, uh, read your book. I really liked it, uh, read your book. I really liked it, uh, but it didn't work for me. I said, "Oh, but it didn't work for me. I said, "Oh, but it didn't work for me. I said, "Oh, wow. That's that's fascinating. Tell me wow. That's that's fascinating. Tell me wow. That's that's fascinating. Tell me more." You know, I spent 5 years writing more." You know, I spent 5 years writing more." You know, I spent 5 years writing this book. Uh, it's filled with 30 pages this book. Uh, it's filled with 30 pages this book. Uh, it's filled with 30 pages of peer-reviewed studies. It changed my of peer-reviewed studies. It changed my of peer-reviewed studies. It changed my life. You know, it finally helped me uh

life. You know, it finally helped me uh life. You know, it finally helped me uh overcome distraction. You know, the it overcome distraction. You know, the it overcome distraction. You know, the it it did so much for me. Tell me what what it did so much for me. Tell me what what it did so much for me. Tell me what what what happened. Let's talk about step what happened. Let's talk about step what happened. Let's talk about step one. How did step one go for you? one. How did step one go for you? one. How did step one go for you? >> And they'd say, you know, near um step >> And they'd say, you know, near um step >> And they'd say, you know, near um step one, you know, I read step one, I read one, you know, I read step one, I read one, you know, I read step one, I read it. I definitely read it, but uh I it. I definitely read it, but uh I it. I definitely read it, but uh I didn't I didn't actually do it as a didn't I didn't actually do it as a didn't I didn't actually do it as a thing. And then they say, "Okay, no thing. And then they say, "Okay, no thing. And then they say, "Okay, no problem." I say, "That's fine. Tell me problem." I say, "That's fine. Tell me problem." I say, "That's fine. Tell me about step two. Maybe you skip step one. about step two. Maybe you skip step one. about step two. Maybe you skip step one. How did step two go for you?" And they How did step two go for you?" And they How did step two go for you?" And they say, "Yeah, ah, step two, that I read say, "Yeah, ah, step two, that I read say, "Yeah, ah, step two, that I read that one, too. I definitely read that that one, too. I definitely read that that one, too. I definitely read that one." But I didn't so much do that one one." But I didn't so much do that one one." But I didn't so much do that one either. And so I thought to myself, either. And so I thought to myself, either. And so I thought to myself, "What's going on here? Like am I am I "What's going on here? Like am I am I "What's going on here? Like am I am I nuts here? Like what what's going on nuts here? Like what what's going on nuts here? Like what what's going on with these people?" And I thought, with these people?" And I thought, with these people?" And I thought, "Well, actually, really "Well, actually, really "Well, actually, really >> uh this is me." Like I I I do this too. >> uh this is me." Like I I I do this too. >> uh this is me." Like I I I do this too. I mean, I've got stacks of books uh I mean, I've got stacks of books uh I mean, I've got stacks of books uh filled with great advice I've never put filled with great advice I've never put filled with great advice I've never put to good use. Uh I've paid consultants to good use. Uh I've paid consultants to good use. Uh I've paid consultants and and and uh uh gurus to tell me what and and and uh uh gurus to tell me what and and and uh uh gurus to tell me what to do and yet haven't put their ideas to do and yet haven't put their ideas to do and yet haven't put their ideas into practice. And what I realized is into practice. And what I realized is into practice. And what I realized is that our traditional model of of of how that our traditional model of of of how that our traditional model of of of how we think about change is is missing we think about change is is missing we think about change is is missing something that it's not good enough to something that it's not good enough to something that it's not good enough to just abide by the traditional economics just abide by the traditional economics just abide by the traditional economics theory of if you give people an theory of if you give people an theory of if you give people an incentive, right? If you give them the incentive, right? If you give them the incentive, right? If you give them the benefit of why they should do something benefit of why they should do something benefit of why they should do something and you tell them what to do, we think and you tell them what to do, we think and you tell them what to do, we think they're going to do it, right? That's they're going to do it, right? That's they're going to do it, right? That's kind of how our jobs work. Here's your kind of how our jobs work. Here's your kind of how our jobs work. Here's your paycheck. Here's what I need you to do.

paycheck. Here's what I need you to do. paycheck. Here's what I need you to do. Do it. Do it. Do it. >> But that doesn't always work because >> But that doesn't always work because >> But that doesn't always work because there's a missing component, a hidden there's a missing component, a hidden there's a missing component, a hidden component that we totally gloss over. We component that we totally gloss over. We component that we totally gloss over. We don't think about, which is that even if don't think about, which is that even if don't think about, which is that even if you have a behavior, right? You know you have a behavior, right? You know you have a behavior, right? You know what to do. what to do. what to do. >> Even if you have the benefit, you want >> Even if you have the benefit, you want >> Even if you have the benefit, you want the result of that behavior. the result of that behavior. the result of that behavior. >> Mhm. If you don't have the belief, >> Mhm. If you don't have the belief, >> Mhm. If you don't have the belief, that's kind of the base of what I call that's kind of the base of what I call that's kind of the base of what I call the mot motivation triangle. If you the mot motivation triangle. If you the mot motivation triangle. If you don't have that belief that a you can don't have that belief that a you can don't have that belief that a you can get that benefit or b, you can continue get that benefit or b, you can continue get that benefit or b, you can continue to do the behavior, to do the behavior, to do the behavior, you're not going to do it. Right? If it you're not going to do it. Right? If it you're not going to do it. Right? If it was that easy, we would all have was that easy, we would all have was that easy, we would all have six-pack abs. We'd all be millionaires. six-pack abs. We'd all be millionaires. six-pack abs. We'd all be millionaires. We'd all do exactly what we say we're We'd all do exactly what we say we're We'd all do exactly what we say we're going to do. But there's something going to do. But there's something going to do. But there's something missing that's hidden to most people is missing that's hidden to most people is missing that's hidden to most people is that they don't realize that they are that they don't realize that they are that they don't realize that they are carrying around what we call limiting carrying around what we call limiting carrying around what we call limiting beliefs. beliefs. beliefs. >> And so, Beyond belief is the answer to >> And so, Beyond belief is the answer to >> And so, Beyond belief is the answer to myself, right? I needed this book more myself, right? I needed this book more myself, right? I needed this book more than anyone of why is it that despite than anyone of why is it that despite than anyone of why is it that despite knowing what to do, wanting the benefit knowing what to do, wanting the benefit knowing what to do, wanting the benefit of that behavior, why don't I do it? And of that behavior, why don't I do it? And of that behavior, why don't I do it? And it turns out that the the the secret, it turns out that the the the secret, it turns out that the the the secret, the key is unlocking those limiting the key is unlocking those limiting the key is unlocking those limiting beliefs and turning them into liberating beliefs and turning them into liberating beliefs and turning them into liberating beliefs. Well, we glanced off this beliefs. Well, we glanced off this beliefs. Well, we glanced off this before, but you went through apparently, before, but you went through apparently, before, but you went through apparently, cuz I would never know it in the two cuz I would never know it in the two cuz I would never know it in the two conversations we've had several years conversations we've had several years conversations we've had several years apart, a transformative fitness journey apart, a transformative fitness journey apart, a transformative fitness journey yourself, right? like you were, I guess, yourself, right? like you were, I guess, yourself, right? like you were, I guess, a heavier kid and, you know, tried the a heavier kid and, you know, tried the a heavier kid and, you know, tried the whole yo-yo diet thing.

whole yo-yo diet thing. whole yo-yo diet thing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You've been fit, I would say, lean >> You've been fit, I would say, lean >> You've been fit, I would say, lean >> for a while now. What What happened? >> for a while now. What What happened? >> for a while now. What What happened? Like, how how did your beliefs Like, how how did your beliefs Like, how how did your beliefs um work against you um work against you um work against you >> in that? That's been a lifelong battle >> in that? That's been a lifelong battle >> in that? That's been a lifelong battle for me, too. Those 20 pounds, it's like, for me, too. Those 20 pounds, it's like, for me, too. Those 20 pounds, it's like, come on, man. come on, man. come on, man. >> I hear you. No, I wasn't just uh a >> I hear you. No, I wasn't just uh a >> I hear you. No, I wasn't just uh a little overweight. I was very little overweight. I was very little overweight. I was very overweight. I'll show you some pictures. overweight. I'll show you some pictures. overweight. I'll show you some pictures. >> Okay, I'll let you call that. I'm not >> Okay, I'll let you call that. I'm not >> Okay, I'll let you call that. I'm not going to tell [laughter] you what you going to tell [laughter] you what you going to tell [laughter] you what you were. were. were. >> You're being polite. I appreciate it. >> You're being polite. I appreciate it. >> You're being polite. I appreciate it. Yeah. I remember my mom taking me to the Yeah. I remember my mom taking me to the Yeah. I remember my mom taking me to the doctor and the doctor showing me this doctor and the doctor showing me this doctor and the doctor showing me this this chart and it had like a green zone. this chart and it had like a green zone. this chart and it had like a green zone. That's normal weight. And then there was That's normal weight. And then there was That's normal weight. And then there was the yellow zone that was overweight. And the yellow zone that was overweight. And the yellow zone that was overweight. And then there was the red and the orange then there was the red and the orange then there was the red and the orange zone which was obese. And that's where I zone which was obese. And that's where I zone which was obese. And that's where I was. Uh and I, you know, I was the kid was. Uh and I, you know, I was the kid was. Uh and I, you know, I was the kid at the pool that never took off their at the pool that never took off their at the pool that never took off their shirt cuz I didn't want anyone to see my shirt cuz I didn't want anyone to see my shirt cuz I didn't want anyone to see my belly rolls. And uh and then finally, belly rolls. And uh and then finally, belly rolls. And uh and then finally, you know, I I back in, I think it was you know, I I back in, I think it was you know, I I back in, I think it was 1994 was the year that I actually 1994 was the year that I actually 1994 was the year that I actually started dieting for the first time. And started dieting for the first time. And started dieting for the first time. And uh for the next 30 years, my bookshelf uh for the next 30 years, my bookshelf uh for the next 30 years, my bookshelf became this graveyard of diet books. You became this graveyard of diet books. You became this graveyard of diet books. You know, at first I started, you remember know, at first I started, you remember know, at first I started, you remember back in the day, uh it was all about low back in the day, uh it was all about low back in the day, uh it was all about low fat. And I, you know, ate ate snack fat. And I, you know, ate ate snack fat. And I, you know, ate ate snack wells by the box, but you know, counted wells by the box, but you know, counted wells by the box, but you know, counted the fat grams. And that diet actually the fat grams. And that diet actually the fat grams. And that diet actually worked. It worked for a while. I lost worked. It worked for a while. I lost worked. It worked for a while. I lost some weight, but then the pendulum some weight, but then the pendulum some weight, but then the pendulum swung. And now then I became a swung. And now then I became a swung. And now then I became a vegetarian because meat was the enemy.

vegetarian because meat was the enemy. vegetarian because meat was the enemy. And so I cut out all the meat. I became And so I cut out all the meat. I became And so I cut out all the meat. I became a vegetarian for quite a long time and I a vegetarian for quite a long time and I a vegetarian for quite a long time and I lost some weight there too. But then the lost some weight there too. But then the lost some weight there too. But then the the the pendulum swung and I became the the pendulum swung and I became the the pendulum swung and I became keto. I became, you know, I went on the keto. I became, you know, I went on the keto. I became, you know, I went on the Atkins diet and that was the latest Atkins diet and that was the latest Atkins diet and that was the latest craze. And then it was intermittent craze. And then it was intermittent craze. And then it was intermittent fasting and I was telling everybody fasting and I was telling everybody fasting and I was telling everybody about the the benefits of of metabolic about the the benefits of of metabolic about the the benefits of of metabolic flexibility and I was that annoying guy flexibility and I was that annoying guy flexibility and I was that annoying guy who was telling people at parties what who was telling people at parties what who was telling people at parties what we should and shouldn't eat. And each we should and shouldn't eat. And each we should and shouldn't eat. And each one of those diets worked until they one of those diets worked until they one of those diets worked until they didn't because what happened again and didn't because what happened again and didn't because what happened again and again and again is that a diet would again and again is that a diet would again and again is that a diet would work as long as I believed in it. But as work as long as I believed in it. But as work as long as I believed in it. But as soon as I had some doubts, as soon as I soon as I had some doubts, as soon as I soon as I had some doubts, as soon as I lost my faith in that diet, being the lost my faith in that diet, being the lost my faith in that diet, being the one and only true diet solution, one and only true diet solution, one and only true diet solution, I would abandon it and the pounds would I would abandon it and the pounds would I would abandon it and the pounds would come back on. And so what I learned come back on. And so what I learned come back on. And so what I learned after 30 years of dieting was that there after 30 years of dieting was that there after 30 years of dieting was that there was no one true diet. There was no one was no one true diet. There was no one was no one true diet. There was no one true plan. It was it was it was true plan. It was it was it was true plan. It was it was it was pointless to try and find the the pointless to try and find the the pointless to try and find the the factually correct diet. Rather, the factually correct diet. Rather, the factually correct diet. Rather, the secret was persistence and motivation secret was persistence and motivation secret was persistence and motivation over a very very long time. And so over a very very long time. And so over a very very long time. And so that's kind of the core of what beyond that's kind of the core of what beyond that's kind of the core of what beyond belief is all about is realizing that belief is all about is realizing that belief is all about is realizing that there's something very different about there's something very different about there's something very different about beliefs that we try and categorize beliefs that we try and categorize beliefs that we try and categorize things typically as either fact or things typically as either fact or things typically as either fact or faith. That fact is an objective truth.

faith. That fact is an objective truth. faith. That fact is an objective truth. So the world is more like a sphere than So the world is more like a sphere than So the world is more like a sphere than it is flat. Uh and that's a fact whether it is flat. Uh and that's a fact whether it is flat. Uh and that's a fact whether you like it or not. The the world you like it or not. The the world you like it or not. The the world doesn't care what you think. That is a doesn't care what you think. That is a doesn't care what you think. That is a fact. That's an objective truth. Then we fact. That's an objective truth. Then we fact. That's an objective truth. Then we have on the other end of the spectrum we have on the other end of the spectrum we have on the other end of the spectrum we have faith which you know all about. have faith which you know all about. have faith which you know all about. That faith is a conviction that does not That faith is a conviction that does not That faith is a conviction that does not require evidence. So, Hebrews uh faith require evidence. So, Hebrews uh faith require evidence. So, Hebrews uh faith is that which cannot be seen. Uh God is that which cannot be seen. Uh God is that which cannot be seen. Uh God rewards the righteous. There's no rewards the righteous. There's no rewards the righteous. There's no evidence needed, no evidence expected evidence needed, no evidence expected evidence needed, no evidence expected for that. That's faith. But then there's for that. That's faith. But then there's for that. That's faith. But then there's belief. Belief is something in between belief. Belief is something in between belief. Belief is something in between fact and faith. A belief is a strongly fact and faith. A belief is a strongly fact and faith. A belief is a strongly held conviction that is open to new held conviction that is open to new held conviction that is open to new evidence. And so, the big aha moment for evidence. And so, the big aha moment for evidence. And so, the big aha moment for me was that beliefs are very different me was that beliefs are very different me was that beliefs are very different from facts and faith. Beliefs are tools, from facts and faith. Beliefs are tools, from facts and faith. Beliefs are tools, not truth. I'll say it again. Beliefs not truth. I'll say it again. Beliefs not truth. I'll say it again. Beliefs are tools, not truths. That we can adopt are tools, not truths. That we can adopt are tools, not truths. That we can adopt these beliefs so that they serve us these beliefs so that they serve us these beliefs so that they serve us rather than just carrying around these rather than just carrying around these rather than just carrying around these old beliefs that we we we carry around old beliefs that we we we carry around old beliefs that we we we carry around just because we always have even when just because we always have even when just because we always have even when they might be hurting us. It's like a they might be hurting us. It's like a they might be hurting us. It's like a carpenter saying, "Oh, this hammer is carpenter saying, "Oh, this hammer is carpenter saying, "Oh, this hammer is the one true tool." As opposed to the one true tool." As opposed to the one true tool." As opposed to thinking, "Wait a minute, is this hammer thinking, "Wait a minute, is this hammer thinking, "Wait a minute, is this hammer the right tool for the job? or should I the right tool for the job? or should I the right tool for the job? or should I use a screwdriver or a wrench or a saw use a screwdriver or a wrench or a saw use a screwdriver or a wrench or a saw or other tools for the job? So, they're or other tools for the job? So, they're or other tools for the job? So, they're not facts, they're not faith, it's not facts, they're not faith, it's not facts, they're not faith, it's something else entirely. And I think something else entirely. And I think something else entirely. And I think most of our personal problems, our most of our personal problems, our most of our personal problems, our interpersonal problems, and our societal interpersonal problems, and our societal interpersonal problems, and our societal problems come from this unfortunate problems come from this unfortunate problems come from this unfortunate reality that far too many of us think reality that far too many of us think reality that far too many of us think that our faith is a fact and that the that our faith is a fact and that the that our faith is a fact and that the things that we call facts turn out to be

things that we call facts turn out to be things that we call facts turn out to be nothing more than beliefs. nothing more than beliefs. nothing more than beliefs. [clears throat] [clears throat] [clears throat] that that if we evaluate the proper that that if we evaluate the proper that that if we evaluate the proper categories that there's a place for categories that there's a place for categories that there's a place for faith absolutely there's a place for faith absolutely there's a place for faith absolutely there's a place for facts but the vast majority of life facts but the vast majority of life facts but the vast majority of life decisions the things that are unknowable decisions the things that are unknowable decisions the things that are unknowable as facts or faith should I marry this as facts or faith should I marry this as facts or faith should I marry this person should I forgive that person person should I forgive that person person should I forgive that person should I start this business that's not should I start this business that's not should I start this business that's not fact or faith that's belief and so we fact or faith that's belief and so we fact or faith that's belief and so we need to understand the power of belief need to understand the power of belief need to understand the power of belief to improve our lives to improve our lives to improve our lives >> you know it's interesting you know I >> you know it's interesting you know I >> you know it's interesting you know I want to come back to that theory in just want to come back to that theory in just want to come back to that theory in just a second near but you you when you talk a second near but you you when you talk a second near but you you when you talk about um your fitness journey, anybody I about um your fitness journey, anybody I about um your fitness journey, anybody I mean my podcast listeners listen to a mean my podcast listeners listen to a mean my podcast listeners listen to a lot of podcasts. You don't have to be lot of podcasts. You don't have to be lot of podcasts. You don't have to be into health and fitness to get all the into health and fitness to get all the into health and fitness to get all the latest theories about why you should latest theories about why you should latest theories about why you should never eat or why you should only eat or never eat or why you should only eat or never eat or why you should only eat or how sugar is killing you or how how sugar is killing you or how how sugar is killing you or how intermittent fasting I mean honestly I intermittent fasting I mean honestly I intermittent fasting I mean honestly I always joke with people who are really always joke with people who are really always joke with people who are really into this stuff. It's like into this stuff. It's like into this stuff. It's like half of the advice contradicts itself half of the advice contradicts itself half of the advice contradicts itself and everybody most most people have and everybody most most people have and everybody most most people have tried. I tried keto, I tried paleo, I tried. I tried keto, I tried paleo, I tried. I tried keto, I tried paleo, I tried this, I tried that, I tried tried this, I tried that, I tried tried this, I tried that, I tried juicing, I tried this, juicing, I tried this, juicing, I tried this, >> and then they it's a season, right? And >> and then they it's a season, right? And >> and then they it's a season, right? And then they give up. So, if you could just then they give up. So, if you could just then they give up. So, if you could just loop the thread because I'm in the loop the thread because I'm in the loop the thread because I'm in the middle of it. I was in three really middle of it. I was in three really middle of it. I was in three really healthy years. Uh good trainer. Uh lost healthy years. Uh good trainer. Uh lost healthy years. Uh good trainer. Uh lost a bunch of weight and uh was really a bunch of weight and uh was really a bunch of weight and uh was really happy with where I was at. Then I got happy with where I was at. Then I got happy with where I was at. Then I got sick last year and I got prescribed a sick last year and I got prescribed a sick last year and I got prescribed a medication that is known for causing medication that is known for causing medication that is known for causing weight loss. So I'm trying to now get

weight loss. So I'm trying to now get weight loss. So I'm trying to now get rid of hopefully by the time this airs rid of hopefully by the time this airs rid of hopefully by the time this airs last 5 to seven pounds. And what I've last 5 to seven pounds. And what I've last 5 to seven pounds. And what I've learned is there's no silver bullet. learned is there's no silver bullet. learned is there's no silver bullet. Just eat less than you burn. You're Just eat less than you burn. You're Just eat less than you burn. You're going to lose weight. Like there's a going to lose weight. Like there's a going to lose weight. Like there's a number. If you just hit that number and number. If you just hit that number and number. If you just hit that number and it can be a steak, you can have a little it can be a steak, you can have a little it can be a steak, you can have a little bit of ice cream if you want. You don't bit of ice cream if you want. You don't bit of ice cream if you want. You don't have to totally cut it out. You just have to totally cut it out. You just have to totally cut it out. You just like you can live. You just can't do too like you can live. You just can't do too like you can live. You just can't do too much. And you better work out resistance much. And you better work out resistance much. And you better work out resistance training three or four times a week, training three or four times a week, training three or four times a week, right? Plus some cardio. So, I do that. right? Plus some cardio. So, I do that. right? Plus some cardio. So, I do that. I'm healthy, but um you know, that's I'm healthy, but um you know, that's I'm healthy, but um you know, that's what I think my core belief on fitness what I think my core belief on fitness what I think my core belief on fitness is moving forward. But it was really is moving forward. But it was really is moving forward. But it was really hard to get back once you were healthy hard to get back once you were healthy hard to get back once you were healthy and then you know you had an incident and then you know you had an incident and then you know you had an incident and that kind of thing. So I'd love to and that kind of thing. So I'd love to and that kind of thing. So I'd love to know know know how that stuck. When did it stick? You how that stuck. When did it stick? You how that stuck. When did it stick? You said 30 years of yo-yo dieting. So that said 30 years of yo-yo dieting. So that said 30 years of yo-yo dieting. So that would put you into what 20 would put you into what 20 would put you into what 20 uh 14 20 what what year did it really uh 14 20 what what year did it really uh 14 20 what what year did it really click for you? click for you? click for you? >> Yeah. Well I mean the last uh uh I mean >> Yeah. Well I mean the last uh uh I mean >> Yeah. Well I mean the last uh uh I mean I've always been conscious of this. I I've always been conscious of this. I I've always been conscious of this. I think I think the important thing isn't think I think the important thing isn't think I think the important thing isn't uh okay what is the miracle cure because uh okay what is the miracle cure because uh okay what is the miracle cure because I think a lot of what we thought was I think a lot of what we thought was I think a lot of what we thought was scientific fact and what I was telling scientific fact and what I was telling scientific fact and what I was telling everybody about why keto was right or everybody about why keto was right or everybody about why keto was right or why vegetarianism was right or why why vegetarianism was right or why why vegetarianism was right or why intermittent fasting works or you know a intermittent fasting works or you know a intermittent fasting works or you know a lot of those things like you said they lot of those things like you said they lot of those things like you said they have there's conflicting evidence have there's conflicting evidence have there's conflicting evidence because a lot of this stuff isn't fact because a lot of this stuff isn't fact because a lot of this stuff isn't fact it's it's we're the the human body is so it's it's we're the the human body is so it's it's we're the the human body is so complex there's so little that we complex there's so little that we complex there's so little that we actually know about how things really actually know about how things really actually know about how things really work let alone the brain you know we we

work let alone the brain you know we we work let alone the brain you know we we act like we have some kind of act like we have some kind of act like we have some kind of understanding of what consciousness is understanding of what consciousness is understanding of what consciousness is and how the mind works. We have no clue. and how the mind works. We have no clue. and how the mind works. We have no clue. [laughter] We are totally in the dark. [laughter] We are totally in the dark. [laughter] We are totally in the dark. We are it's it's uh it's We are it's it's uh it's We are it's it's uh it's >> we can't even agree on the definition of >> we can't even agree on the definition of >> we can't even agree on the definition of sentience or consciousness. I agree. sentience or consciousness. I agree. sentience or consciousness. I agree. >> It's right. And so so much of this >> It's right. And so so much of this >> It's right. And so so much of this unfortunately maybe someday we can turn unfortunately maybe someday we can turn unfortunately maybe someday we can turn this stuff into fact, but so much of this stuff into fact, but so much of this stuff into fact, but so much of this stuff right now is just based on this stuff right now is just based on this stuff right now is just based on belief. And so I think the the the more belief. And so I think the the the more belief. And so I think the the the more important question isn't necessarily uh important question isn't necessarily uh important question isn't necessarily uh what is the right way to do things but what is the right way to do things but what is the right way to do things but rather understanding that our beliefs rather understanding that our beliefs rather understanding that our beliefs drive what we see, what we feel, and drive what we see, what we feel, and drive what we see, what we feel, and what we do. And so if we can adopt the what we do. And so if we can adopt the what we do. And so if we can adopt the right belief that serves us rather than right belief that serves us rather than right belief that serves us rather than hurts us, that that's what we should go hurts us, that that's what we should go hurts us, that that's what we should go for. So if intermittent fasting is for. So if intermittent fasting is for. So if intermittent fasting is working for you, if low carb, if low working for you, if low carb, if low working for you, if low carb, if low fat, if whatever is working and helps fat, if whatever is working and helps fat, if whatever is working and helps sustain the most important part, which sustain the most important part, which sustain the most important part, which is persistence that at the end of the is persistence that at the end of the is persistence that at the end of the day, it's not about doing it in a day, it's not about doing it in a day, it's not about doing it in a weekend, you know, it's not when I when weekend, you know, it's not when I when weekend, you know, it's not when I when I used to crash diet, uh I you know, I I used to crash diet, uh I you know, I I used to crash diet, uh I you know, I joined one the first athletic thing I joined one the first athletic thing I joined one the first athletic thing I ever did. I was terribly unathletic. I ever did. I was terribly unathletic. I ever did. I was terribly unathletic. I joined the wrestling team and I never joined the wrestling team and I never joined the wrestling team and I never won a match. Like literally, I wrestled won a match. Like literally, I wrestled won a match. Like literally, I wrestled for three years. I never won even one for three years. I never won even one for three years. I never won even one match because I was always very heavy match because I was always very heavy match because I was always very heavy but had very little muscle and no but had very little muscle and no but had very little muscle and no cardiovascular fitness. So, I cardiovascular fitness. So, I cardiovascular fitness. So, I [clears throat] lost every match. But, [clears throat] lost every match. But, [clears throat] lost every match. But, you know, part of that yo-yo dieting was you know, part of that yo-yo dieting was you know, part of that yo-yo dieting was that you had to cut weight. You had to that you had to cut weight. You had to that you had to cut weight. You had to cut weight and that that never works, cut weight and that that never works, cut weight and that that never works, right? You can't you know, you you can

right? You can't you know, you you can right? You can't you know, you you can dehydrate yourself and starve yourself. dehydrate yourself and starve yourself. dehydrate yourself and starve yourself. And you'll you'll show the scale And you'll you'll show the scale And you'll you'll show the scale decreasing for a weekend or so if that's decreasing for a weekend or so if that's decreasing for a weekend or so if that's what you're trying to do, but that's not what you're trying to do, but that's not what you're trying to do, but that's not sustainable. What really changes your sustainable. What really changes your sustainable. What really changes your life is sustained persistent action. life is sustained persistent action. life is sustained persistent action. Right? Consistency is more important Right? Consistency is more important Right? Consistency is more important than intensity. Consistency is more than intensity. Consistency is more than intensity. Consistency is more important than intensity in so many important than intensity in so many important than intensity in so many facets of life. facets of life. facets of life. >> But changing that belief was essential. >> But changing that belief was essential. >> But changing that belief was essential. Understanding that what really matters Understanding that what really matters Understanding that what really matters is the long run. That's why beyond is the long run. That's why beyond is the long run. That's why beyond belief is really a motiv book about belief is really a motiv book about belief is really a motiv book about motivation. It's about how do we sustain motivation. It's about how do we sustain motivation. It's about how do we sustain that persistent action. There's a a that persistent action. There's a a that persistent action. There's a a great study maybe I can I can share with great study maybe I can I can share with great study maybe I can I can share with the audience um about uh an experiment the audience um about uh an experiment the audience um about uh an experiment that was done by Kurt Richtor back in that was done by Kurt Richtor back in that was done by Kurt Richtor back in the 1950s and he did this amazing study the 1950s and he did this amazing study the 1950s and he did this amazing study where he took uh these these wild rats where he took uh these these wild rats where he took uh these these wild rats and he wanted to test how long they and he wanted to test how long they and he wanted to test how long they could survive in a cylinder of water. So could survive in a cylinder of water. So could survive in a cylinder of water. So he filled up the cylinder about halfway. he filled up the cylinder about halfway. he filled up the cylinder about halfway. This was back in the 1950s when you This was back in the 1950s when you This was back in the 1950s when you could do stuff like this. I don't think could do stuff like this. I don't think could do stuff like this. I don't think these experiments anymore, but he he these experiments anymore, but he he these experiments anymore, but he he took these wild rats and and he put them took these wild rats and and he put them took these wild rats and and he put them into these cylinders and he timed how into these cylinders and he timed how into these cylinders and he timed how long they survived for, how long they long they survived for, how long they long they survived for, how long they could keep swimming. And turned out that could keep swimming. And turned out that could keep swimming. And turned out that a wild rat in a cylinder swims for about a wild rat in a cylinder swims for about a wild rat in a cylinder swims for about 15 minutes. Okay? Then he took these 15 minutes. Okay? Then he took these 15 minutes. Okay? Then he took these domesticated rats, these lab rats, and domesticated rats, these lab rats, and domesticated rats, these lab rats, and he did the same thing. And they lasted he did the same thing. And they lasted he did the same thing. And they lasted much, much longer. And he wasn't really much, much longer. And he wasn't really much, much longer. And he wasn't really sure why. And his theory was is that sure why. And his theory was is that sure why. And his theory was is that they had something different not only they had something different not only they had something different not only about their their bodies, but about about their their bodies, but about about their their bodies, but about their minds. Because if you think about their minds. Because if you think about their minds. Because if you think about it, you would think that the the the it, you would think that the the the it, you would think that the the the beefy the wild rats who were, you know, beefy the wild rats who were, you know, beefy the wild rats who were, you know, much fitter, they were better natural

much fitter, they were better natural much fitter, they were better natural swimmers, they were far more aggressive, swimmers, they were far more aggressive, swimmers, they were far more aggressive, they were grittier, they were tougher. they were grittier, they were tougher. they were grittier, they were tougher. You know, the the typical mentality that You know, the the typical mentality that You know, the the typical mentality that we have today is that people who are big we have today is that people who are big we have today is that people who are big and strong and tough and, you know, uh and strong and tough and, you know, uh and strong and tough and, you know, uh uh aggressive, those people have are uh aggressive, those people have are uh aggressive, those people have are more persistent, right? They are the more persistent, right? They are the more persistent, right? They are the ones who have more motivation. But ones who have more motivation. But ones who have more motivation. But that's not what he saw in the rats. In that's not what he saw in the rats. In that's not what he saw in the rats. In fact, the wild rats died first, right? fact, the wild rats died first, right? fact, the wild rats died first, right? Why did that happen? So he conducted Why did that happen? So he conducted Why did that happen? So he conducted another experiment. He took those those another experiment. He took those those another experiment. He took those those wild rats. He put them back in the wild rats. He put them back in the wild rats. He put them back in the cylinder and he timed for how long they cylinder and he timed for how long they cylinder and he timed for how long they were swimming. And right before they are were swimming. And right before they are were swimming. And right before they are about to give up, right before the 15 about to give up, right before the 15 about to give up, right before the 15 minutes, he plucked those rats out of minutes, he plucked those rats out of minutes, he plucked those rats out of the cylinder. He dried them off. He let the cylinder. He dried them off. He let the cylinder. He dried them off. He let them catch their breath. And then he put them catch their breath. And then he put them catch their breath. And then he put them back in the cylinder. And he did them back in the cylinder. And he did them back in the cylinder. And he did this a few times. And what he found was this a few times. And what he found was this a few times. And what he found was remarkable that not only did they start remarkable that not only did they start remarkable that not only did they start swimming as long as those domesticated swimming as long as those domesticated swimming as long as those domesticated rats did, they actually swam to an rats did, they actually swam to an rats did, they actually swam to an amazing degree. So they went from 15 amazing degree. So they went from 15 amazing degree. So they went from 15 minutes to guess how long. Now maybe minutes to guess how long. Now maybe minutes to guess how long. Now maybe you've read the book, so maybe you know you've read the book, so maybe you know you've read the book, so maybe you know the answer. Maybe you've heard this.

the answer. Maybe you've heard this. the answer. Maybe you've heard this. Okay, so you know the answer. Okay, so you know the answer. Okay, so you know the answer. >> It was longer than an hour. It wasn't 60 >> It was longer than an hour. It wasn't 60 >> It was longer than an hour. It wasn't 60 minutes. It was 60 hours. minutes. It was 60 hours. minutes. It was 60 hours. >> Oh, >> Oh, >> Oh, >> not 60 minutes. 60 hours. They swam 240 >> not 60 minutes. 60 hours. They swam 240 >> not 60 minutes. 60 hours. They swam 240 times longer. Okay. Is that not Is that times longer. Okay. Is that not Is that times longer. Okay. Is that not Is that not incredible? Think about that, right? not incredible? Think about that, right? not incredible? Think about that, right? That that how many of the things that we That that how many of the things that we That that how many of the things that we do in our life, do in our life, do in our life, >> we're just swimming for 15 minutes, >> we're just swimming for 15 minutes, >> we're just swimming for 15 minutes, right? We're just giving it our and we right? We're just giving it our and we right? We're just giving it our and we think, "Oh, we're spent. That's it. think, "Oh, we're spent. That's it. think, "Oh, we're spent. That's it. We're tired. We can't anymore." But We're tired. We can't anymore." But We're tired. We can't anymore." But really, there's this hidden reserve really, there's this hidden reserve really, there's this hidden reserve that's unlocked based on our beliefs. that's unlocked based on our beliefs. that's unlocked based on our beliefs. Think about it. These rats, their bodies Think about it. These rats, their bodies Think about it. These rats, their bodies didn't change, right? Nothing changed in didn't change, right? Nothing changed in didn't change, right? Nothing changed in their physical condition. The cylinders their physical condition. The cylinders their physical condition. The cylinders didn't change. It was the same didn't change. It was the same didn't change. It was the same experiment. experiment. experiment. >> Something was unlocked in their minds >> Something was unlocked in their minds >> Something was unlocked in their minds >> because now they knew that salvation >> because now they knew that salvation >> because now they knew that salvation might be possible. Before they thought might be possible. Before they thought might be possible. Before they thought it was hopeless. it was hopeless. it was hopeless. >> And then that hand reached in, took them >> And then that hand reached in, took them >> And then that hand reached in, took them out of the water. And now there was out of the water. And now there was out of the water. And now there was hope. Yeah. Hope of salvation. And now hope. Yeah. Hope of salvation. And now hope. Yeah. Hope of salvation. And now their persistence completely changed.

their persistence completely changed. their persistence completely changed. They got 240 times more persistent. And They got 240 times more persistent. And They got 240 times more persistent. And so what does that say about us? How many so what does that say about us? How many so what does that say about us? How many areas of our life are just waiting to be areas of our life are just waiting to be areas of our life are just waiting to be unlocked if we could change our beliefs? unlocked if we could change our beliefs? unlocked if we could change our beliefs? If we could change our mind. This If we could change our mind. This If we could change our mind. This episode is brought to you by Compassion. episode is brought to you by Compassion. episode is brought to you by Compassion. For 74 years, Compassion International For 74 years, Compassion International For 74 years, Compassion International has helped millions of kids through its has helped millions of kids through its has helped millions of kids through its child sponsorship program. To do this, child sponsorship program. To do this, child sponsorship program. To do this, they partner with local churches here in they partner with local churches here in they partner with local churches here in the United States and in communities the United States and in communities the United States and in communities around the world to make churches love around the world to make churches love around the world to make churches love their neighbors and go and make their neighbors and go and make their neighbors and go and make disciples. In seven decades, they've disciples. In seven decades, they've disciples. In seven decades, they've seen God do incredible things. And you seen God do incredible things. And you seen God do incredible things. And you know what's been the common thread? know what's been the common thread? know what's been the common thread? compassion, not not the organization, compassion, not not the organization, compassion, not not the organization, but a posture of compassion. The kind of but a posture of compassion. The kind of but a posture of compassion. The kind of compassion Jesus showed in his ministry. compassion Jesus showed in his ministry. compassion Jesus showed in his ministry. And they know that when people lead with And they know that when people lead with And they know that when people lead with compassion, it changes everything. It compassion, it changes everything. It compassion, it changes everything. It changes the person who receives the changes the person who receives the changes the person who receives the help. It changes the person helping. It help. It changes the person helping. It help. It changes the person helping. It changes the churches, the leaders, the changes the churches, the leaders, the changes the churches, the leaders, the families, entire communities. It changes families, entire communities. It changes families, entire communities. It changes everything. This is a church-driven everything. This is a church-driven everything. This is a church-driven organization that I'm personally organization that I'm personally organization that I'm personally passionate about. We sponsor kids and passionate about. We sponsor kids and passionate about. We sponsor kids and support compassion through other ways.

support compassion through other ways. support compassion through other ways. There are so many opportunities to There are so many opportunities to There are so many opportunities to connect your church's mission to a connect your church's mission to a connect your church's mission to a partnership with compassion. It's a way partnership with compassion. It's a way partnership with compassion. It's a way to advance the kingdom together and to advance the kingdom together and to advance the kingdom together and you'll see how compassion really does you'll see how compassion really does you'll see how compassion really does change everything. So check out change everything. So check out change everything. So check out compassion.com/carry compassion.com/carry compassion.com/carry for free resources and more information for free resources and more information for free resources and more information about these opportunities. That's about these opportunities. That's about these opportunities. That's compassion.com/cy. compassion.com/cy. compassion.com/cy. You know, I want to drill down a little You know, I want to drill down a little You know, I want to drill down a little bit more on that, but just to to tie a bit more on that, but just to to tie a bit more on that, but just to to tie a loop on it because I'm curious. What is loop on it because I'm curious. What is loop on it because I'm curious. What is your current philosophy belief about your current philosophy belief about your current philosophy belief about diet and fitness? How do you diet and fitness? How do you diet and fitness? How do you >> about diet and fitness? >> about diet and fitness? >> about diet and fitness? >> Yeah. How how do you make sure that near >> Yeah. How how do you make sure that near >> Yeah. How how do you make sure that near doesn't go back to elementary school doesn't go back to elementary school doesn't go back to elementary school near like again like I said you've been near like again like I said you've been near like again like I said you've been consistent on this for a while now. consistent on this for a while now. consistent on this for a while now. >> It's it's it's nothing remarkable. I >> It's it's it's nothing remarkable. I >> It's it's it's nothing remarkable. I mean it's you know it's exactly what you mean it's you know it's exactly what you mean it's you know it's exactly what you said for the vast majority of people. said for the vast majority of people. said for the vast majority of people. There are some exceptions. you know the There are some exceptions. you know the There are some exceptions. you know the 0.1% of people who this doesn't apply to 0.1% of people who this doesn't apply to 0.1% of people who this doesn't apply to but for the vast majority of people but for the vast majority of people but for the vast majority of people >> you have to eat right and exercise >> you have to eat right and exercise >> you have to eat right and exercise >> that's it >> that's it >> that's it >> that's it >> that's it >> that's it >> that's [laughter] it there's no magic >> that's [laughter] it there's no magic >> that's [laughter] it there's no magic like you know like you know like you know >> like >> like >> like >> now how do you do that I mean I'm not >> now how do you do that I mean I'm not >> now how do you do that I mean I'm not saying it's uh it's easy I think that saying it's uh it's easy I think that saying it's uh it's easy I think that for a lot of people are environments for a lot of people are environments for a lot of people are environments make it very very difficult so one thing make it very very difficult so one thing make it very very difficult so one thing I've chosen in my life is to live in I've chosen in my life is to live in I've chosen in my life is to live in places where exercise is effortless so places where exercise is effortless so places where exercise is effortless so part of the reason I was so overweight part of the reason I was so overweight part of the reason I was so overweight is because I lived in central Florida is because I lived in central Florida is because I lived in central Florida where you went from your air conditioned where you went from your air conditioned where you went from your air conditioned house to your air conditioned car to the house to your air conditioned car to the house to your air conditioned car to the air conditioned school to the air air conditioned school to the air air conditioned school to the air conditioned mall because you never conditioned mall because you never conditioned mall because you never walked. Well, now I live in cities by

walked. Well, now I live in cities by walked. Well, now I live in cities by choice. I live in areas that are choice. I live in areas that are choice. I live in areas that are walkable. So, I walk 10 to 20,000 steps walkable. So, I walk 10 to 20,000 steps walkable. So, I walk 10 to 20,000 steps every single day without even thinking every single day without even thinking every single day without even thinking about it. about it. about it. >> So, that allows me >> So, that allows me >> So, that allows me >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> to because because I like it, right? And >> to because because I like it, right? And >> to because because I like it, right? And I I just I you know, the less time I I I just I you know, the less time I I I just I you know, the less time I spend in my car sitting on my butt, the spend in my car sitting on my butt, the spend in my car sitting on my butt, the more time I'm spending moving. And so more time I'm spending moving. And so more time I'm spending moving. And so that allows me that extra, you know, that allows me that extra, you know, that allows me that extra, you know, every every uh uh mile is about 100 every every uh uh mile is about 100 every every uh uh mile is about 100 calories. So if I'm doing an extra 5 calories. So if I'm doing an extra 5 calories. So if I'm doing an extra 5 miles a day, that's an extra 500 miles a day, that's an extra 500 miles a day, that's an extra 500 calories. Well, you know, it it doesn't calories. Well, you know, it it doesn't calories. Well, you know, it it doesn't sound like much, but 500 calories extra sound like much, but 500 calories extra sound like much, but 500 calories extra times 7 days, that's one pound of fat times 7 days, that's one pound of fat times 7 days, that's one pound of fat every 7 days. You know how easy it is to every 7 days. You know how easy it is to every 7 days. You know how easy it is to to eat 500 extra calories? It's a joke. to eat 500 extra calories? It's a joke. to eat 500 extra calories? It's a joke. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> That's a handful. >> That's a handful. >> That's a handful. >> That's a handful of of almonds. or >> That's a handful of of almonds. or >> That's a handful of of almonds. or that's like what like three apples. that's like what like three apples. that's like what like three apples. That's not very hard to do. That's not very hard to do. That's not very hard to do. >> But so by having so so shaping the >> But so by having so so shaping the >> But so by having so so shaping the environment that does actually, you environment that does actually, you environment that does actually, you know, for me that's had a big impact. know, for me that's had a big impact. know, for me that's had a big impact. But the rest of it is is not rocket But the rest of it is is not rocket But the rest of it is is not rocket science. It's about the consistency of science. It's about the consistency of science. It's about the consistency of doing that thing that you know you doing that thing that you know you doing that thing that you know you should be doing. should be doing. should be doing. >> Well, you talked at the beginning about >> Well, you talked at the beginning about >> Well, you talked at the beginning about the difference between belief and faith, the difference between belief and faith, the difference between belief and faith, but you also talk about faith. So where but you also talk about faith. So where but you also talk about faith. So where where does that fit in? How does that where does that fit in? How does that where does that fit in? How does that fit into your schema, so to speak?

fit into your schema, so to speak? fit into your schema, so to speak? >> Sure. So I I had a real transformation >> Sure. So I I had a real transformation >> Sure. So I I had a real transformation in the process of writing this book uh in the process of writing this book uh in the process of writing this book uh around the power of prayer. Now I I'll around the power of prayer. Now I I'll around the power of prayer. Now I I'll tell you my background. So yeah, so I I tell you my background. So yeah, so I I tell you my background. So yeah, so I I uh stopped praying when I was about 6 or uh stopped praying when I was about 6 or uh stopped praying when I was about 6 or 7 years old. I remember I used to pray a 7 years old. I remember I used to pray a 7 years old. I remember I used to pray a lot when uh my family first immigrated lot when uh my family first immigrated lot when uh my family first immigrated to America. They got scammed out of to America. They got scammed out of to America. They got scammed out of their life savings and uh they basically their life savings and uh they basically their life savings and uh they basically had to start over and I remember they had to start over and I remember they had to start over and I remember they were going through a really tough time. were going through a really tough time. were going through a really tough time. They I remember them yelling at each They I remember them yelling at each They I remember them yelling at each other, you know, full throttle and and other, you know, full throttle and and other, you know, full throttle and and that was a really tough time for my that was a really tough time for my that was a really tough time for my family. And I remember going out to the family. And I remember going out to the family. And I remember going out to the driveway uh uh in front of our our home driveway uh uh in front of our our home driveway uh uh in front of our our home and just laying on the ground and and just laying on the ground and and just laying on the ground and talking to God. And then and that was talking to God. And then and that was talking to God. And then and that was very very helpful. Um I I still remember very very helpful. Um I I still remember very very helpful. Um I I still remember that vividly. And then as I got older, that vividly. And then as I got older, that vividly. And then as I got older, um, I I stopped and, uh, I I kind of um, I I stopped and, uh, I I kind of um, I I stopped and, uh, I I kind of grew up agnostic and I thought, okay, I grew up agnostic and I thought, okay, I grew up agnostic and I thought, okay, I wasn't really, who was I talking to? wasn't really, who was I talking to? wasn't really, who was I talking to? What was the point here? No one was What was the point here? No one was What was the point here? No one was listening. And so I I didn't I didn't listening. And so I I didn't I didn't listening. And so I I didn't I didn't pray for for most of my adult life up pray for for most of my adult life up pray for for most of my adult life up until, you know, writing this book.

until, you know, writing this book. until, you know, writing this book. >> And as I was writing Beyond Belief, I I >> And as I was writing Beyond Belief, I I >> And as I was writing Beyond Belief, I I I started with, you know, the the I started with, you know, the the I started with, you know, the the incredible power of of the mind to incredible power of of the mind to incredible power of of the mind to change our bodies. And I came across the change our bodies. And I came across the change our bodies. And I came across the placebo effect and the noibo effect. And placebo effect and the noibo effect. And placebo effect and the noibo effect. And then I came across these studies around then I came across these studies around then I came across these studies around prayer. And the research just knocked my prayer. And the research just knocked my prayer. And the research just knocked my socks off that the literature is is very socks off that the literature is is very socks off that the literature is is very conclusive that people who pray conclusive that people who pray conclusive that people who pray have tremendous benefits. They live have tremendous benefits. They live have tremendous benefits. They live longer. They have more friends. They longer. They have more friends. They longer. They have more friends. They have fewer health problems. All these have fewer health problems. All these have fewer health problems. All these good things happen from prayer, which is good things happen from prayer, which is good things happen from prayer, which is interesting. But what really uh what was interesting. But what really uh what was interesting. But what really uh what was it really changed my mind was that it really changed my mind was that it really changed my mind was that they've done studies where even if you they've done studies where even if you they've done studies where even if you don't have a faith, even if you are a don't have a faith, even if you are a don't have a faith, even if you are a secular person, but you engage in secular person, but you engage in secular person, but you engage in prayer, you still get those benefits. prayer, you still get those benefits. prayer, you still get those benefits. They did a study where they had people They did a study where they had people They did a study where they had people put their hands into very very cold put their hands into very very cold put their hands into very very cold water, painfully cold water. And they water, painfully cold water. And they water, painfully cold water. And they stood there and the the scientists stood there and the the scientists stood there and the the scientists measured how long these participants measured how long these participants measured how long these participants could keep their hands in this cold could keep their hands in this cold could keep their hands in this cold water. And they had essentially three water. And they had essentially three water. And they had essentially three groups. They had a control group that groups. They had a control group that groups. They had a control group that did nothing. They had a faith-based did nothing. They had a faith-based did nothing. They had a faith-based prayer group. And then they had one prayer group. And then they had one prayer group. And then they had one group that did prayer but without any group that did prayer but without any group that did prayer but without any particular faith. They could they could particular faith. They could they could particular faith. They could they could pray to mother earth or consciousness or pray to mother earth or consciousness or pray to mother earth or consciousness or whatever they wanted to but they didn't whatever they wanted to but they didn't whatever they wanted to but they didn't identify as as having a particular uh uh identify as as having a particular uh uh identify as as having a particular uh uh a faith uh a tradition. So what happened a faith uh a tradition. So what happened a faith uh a tradition. So what happened in this experiment that the people who in this experiment that the people who in this experiment that the people who had a faith tradition, they lasted much

had a faith tradition, they lasted much had a faith tradition, they lasted much longer with their hand in that cold longer with their hand in that cold longer with their hand in that cold water, their pain tolerance was much water, their pain tolerance was much water, their pain tolerance was much higher than the people who didn't pray higher than the people who didn't pray higher than the people who didn't pray at all. The interesting part that even at all. The interesting part that even at all. The interesting part that even people who didn't have a particular people who didn't have a particular people who didn't have a particular faith but still prayed also had much faith but still prayed also had much faith but still prayed also had much higher pain tolerance. And we can kind higher pain tolerance. And we can kind higher pain tolerance. And we can kind of see this in our lives, right? that of see this in our lives, right? that of see this in our lives, right? that people who have faith, they're they're people who have faith, they're they're people who have faith, they're they're able to get through difficult situations able to get through difficult situations able to get through difficult situations in a way that other people don't seem in a way that other people don't seem in a way that other people don't seem able to. They It's kind of like that able to. They It's kind of like that able to. They It's kind of like that that experiment that I told you about that experiment that I told you about that experiment that I told you about earlier, the RTOR experiment where the earlier, the RTOR experiment where the earlier, the RTOR experiment where the rats kept swimming and swimming and rats kept swimming and swimming and rats kept swimming and swimming and swimming because they thought salvation swimming because they thought salvation swimming because they thought salvation was possible, right? That something was possible, right? That something was possible, right? That something might save them. And so they persisted might save them. And so they persisted might save them. And so they persisted 240 times longer. And prayer seems to 240 times longer. And prayer seems to 240 times longer. And prayer seems to have that kind of effect. So I became have that kind of effect. So I became have that kind of effect. So I became fascinated by this. And so I began to fascinated by this. And so I began to fascinated by this. And so I began to pray. pray. pray. >> Huh. >> Huh. >> Huh. >> And uh it was life-changing. >> And uh it was life-changing. >> And uh it was life-changing. >> Really? How? Yeah. >> Really? How? Yeah. >> Really? How? Yeah. >> Well, I it you know I stopped I released >> Well, I it you know I stopped I released >> Well, I it you know I stopped I released myself from the the belief myself from the the belief myself from the the belief that if I can't objectively prove that that if I can't objectively prove that that if I can't objectively prove that everything that a religion says is as it everything that a religion says is as it everything that a religion says is as it says it is and without doubt then I says it is and without doubt then I says it is and without doubt then I can't participate. That was my belief can't participate. That was my belief can't participate. That was my belief and I think it's a belief of a lot of and I think it's a belief of a lot of and I think it's a belief of a lot of people. You know, you you know this stat people. You know, you you know this stat people. You know, you you know this stat that that the largest religious that that the largest religious that that the largest religious community in America today is the nuns, community in America today is the nuns, community in America today is the nuns, the N O and E, right?

the N O and E, right? the N O and E, right? >> That's kind of who I was because I >> That's kind of who I was because I >> That's kind of who I was because I thought, well, if I can't agree with thought, well, if I can't agree with thought, well, if I can't agree with everything, I can do nothing. I can't everything, I can do nothing. I can't everything, I can do nothing. I can't participate whatsoever. participate whatsoever. participate whatsoever. >> And I think we have made a huge mistake. >> And I think we have made a huge mistake. >> And I think we have made a huge mistake. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> I made a huge mistake >> I made a huge mistake >> I made a huge mistake >> because the benefits and so what I did >> because the benefits and so what I did >> because the benefits and so what I did actually I I I went to five religious actually I I I went to five religious actually I I I went to five religious leaders. I went to a rabbi, a priest, a leaders. I went to a rabbi, a priest, a leaders. I went to a rabbi, a priest, a monk, a swami and a imam. It sounds like monk, a swami and a imam. It sounds like monk, a swami and a imam. It sounds like a joke, right? That these these all walk a joke, right? That these these all walk a joke, right? That these these all walk into a bar, right? [laughter] And and I into a bar, right? [laughter] And and I into a bar, right? [laughter] And and I asked them the same question, which was, asked them the same question, which was, asked them the same question, which was, can you pray even when you have doubts can you pray even when you have doubts can you pray even when you have doubts about faith? And uh I took one thing about faith? And uh I took one thing about faith? And uh I took one thing away from each of those faith leaders. away from each of those faith leaders. away from each of those faith leaders. And this wasn't a scientific study. It And this wasn't a scientific study. It And this wasn't a scientific study. It was just a you know, just a talking to was just a you know, just a talking to was just a you know, just a talking to to leaders. to leaders. to leaders. >> Yeah. Personal quest. And uh it really >> Yeah. Personal quest. And uh it really >> Yeah. Personal quest. And uh it really changed my mind. And so now when I walk changed my mind. And so now when I walk changed my mind. And so now when I walk by uh a a place of worship, I'll stop in by uh a a place of worship, I'll stop in by uh a a place of worship, I'll stop in if they'll let me in and I'll I'll I'll if they'll let me in and I'll I'll I'll if they'll let me in and I'll I'll I'll pray and I I it it it really has pray and I I it it it really has pray and I I it it it really has benefited me. So I've released that idea benefited me. So I've released that idea benefited me. So I've released that idea that we have to have perfect certainty.

that we have to have perfect certainty. that we have to have perfect certainty. Um that I think keeps a lot of people Um that I think keeps a lot of people Um that I think keeps a lot of people away from church and uh and I I I'm away from church and uh and I I I'm away from church and uh and I I I'm hoping that perhaps my experience can hoping that perhaps my experience can hoping that perhaps my experience can inspire others to to find their way back inspire others to to find their way back inspire others to to find their way back to church. to church. to church. >> Yeah. So, you're kind of on a spiritual >> Yeah. So, you're kind of on a spiritual >> Yeah. So, you're kind of on a spiritual journey right now or where does that journey right now or where does that journey right now or where does that leave you near? leave you near? leave you near? >> Well, I I think what I've discovered is >> Well, I I think what I've discovered is >> Well, I I think what I've discovered is that you can have practice that you can have practice that you can have practice with doubt, with doubt, with doubt, >> right? With without perfect certainty >> right? With without perfect certainty >> right? With without perfect certainty and that I've relieved myself from that, and that I've relieved myself from that, and that I've relieved myself from that, that uh I don't need to know all the that uh I don't need to know all the that uh I don't need to know all the answers with 100% certainty because the answers with 100% certainty because the answers with 100% certainty because the benefits are so immense. the the benefits are so immense. the the benefits are so immense. the the community that you get um the the the community that you get um the the the community that you get um the the the the reminder of your values uh the the reminder of your values uh the the reminder of your values uh the regular practice the something bigger regular practice the something bigger regular practice the something bigger than yourself. I think this is what a than yourself. I think this is what a than yourself. I think this is what a lot of people who leave a faith lot of people who leave a faith lot of people who leave a faith community community community this is where we really harm ourselves. this is where we really harm ourselves. this is where we really harm ourselves. We threw out the baby with the bath We threw out the baby with the bath We threw out the baby with the bath water for a lot of folks and what I'm water for a lot of folks and what I'm water for a lot of folks and what I'm hoping is that now we can we can perhaps hoping is that now we can we can perhaps hoping is that now we can we can perhaps find our way back. And I think also this find our way back. And I think also this find our way back. And I think also this is a little bit of a call to religious is a little bit of a call to religious is a little bit of a call to religious institutions if they want to increase institutions if they want to increase institutions if they want to increase their following to perhaps not have such their following to perhaps not have such their following to perhaps not have such a purity test for people like me who a purity test for people like me who a purity test for people like me who need to declare you know that we believe need to declare you know that we believe need to declare you know that we believe in every single uh T and I that that in every single uh T and I that that in every single uh T and I that that everything needs to be exactly the way everything needs to be exactly the way everything needs to be exactly the way it said that maybe we have doubts and it said that maybe we have doubts and it said that maybe we have doubts and that's okay because perhaps we're still that's okay because perhaps we're still that's okay because perhaps we're still welcome that we can still come and welcome that we can still come and welcome that we can still come and participate. You know, it's interesting participate. You know, it's interesting participate. You know, it's interesting because you have got a lot of church because you have got a lot of church because you have got a lot of church leaders listening and mostly Protestant, leaders listening and mostly Protestant, leaders listening and mostly Protestant, although we have some Roman Catholics, although we have some Roman Catholics, although we have some Roman Catholics, some other faiths listening, but mostly

some other faiths listening, but mostly some other faiths listening, but mostly Protestant evangelical church leaders. Protestant evangelical church leaders. Protestant evangelical church leaders. When you think about that church looking When you think about that church looking When you think about that church looking from the outside in, is there anything from the outside in, is there anything from the outside in, is there anything you wish we would do or do differently you wish we would do or do differently you wish we would do or do differently that would make it feel like a welcome that would make it feel like a welcome that would make it feel like a welcome place for you? place for you? place for you? I think it's I think it's exactly this I think it's I think it's exactly this I think it's I think it's exactly this idea of not requiring any sort of purity idea of not requiring any sort of purity idea of not requiring any sort of purity test. test. test. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That uh you know nobody asks the uh the >> That uh you know nobody asks the uh the >> That uh you know nobody asks the uh the pope if he has perfect certainty. We pope if he has perfect certainty. We pope if he has perfect certainty. We just assume we don't ask. Uh and I think just assume we don't ask. Uh and I think just assume we don't ask. Uh and I think that that a lot of folks like me uh are that that a lot of folks like me uh are that that a lot of folks like me uh are repelled by that idea that we have to repelled by that idea that we have to repelled by that idea that we have to believe everything with perfect faith. believe everything with perfect faith. believe everything with perfect faith. And if we don't have perfect faith, if And if we don't have perfect faith, if And if we don't have perfect faith, if we have doubts, uh that that that we're we have doubts, uh that that that we're we have doubts, uh that that that we're not welcome. Uh because what I think not welcome. Uh because what I think not welcome. Uh because what I think what we find at least when I the more what we find at least when I the more what we find at least when I the more people I spoke with uh that many many people I spoke with uh that many many people I spoke with uh that many many people have doubts that in fact doubts people have doubts that in fact doubts people have doubts that in fact doubts are welcome. But I I think that message are welcome. But I I think that message are welcome. But I I think that message is not is not is not >> is not clearly communicated to to a lot >> is not clearly communicated to to a lot >> is not clearly communicated to to a lot of folks. At least it wasn't for me.

of folks. At least it wasn't for me. of folks. At least it wasn't for me. >> No. And you know what? If the message >> No. And you know what? If the message >> No. And you know what? If the message isn't heard, the message wasn't given isn't heard, the message wasn't given isn't heard, the message wasn't given properly. properly. properly. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think I think that's very >> Yeah. Yeah. I think I think that's very >> Yeah. Yeah. I think I think that's very true. You know, a lot of we talk about true. You know, a lot of we talk about true. You know, a lot of we talk about dark nights of the soul here where dark nights of the soul here where dark nights of the soul here where Christians go through a a season of Christians go through a a season of Christians go through a a season of doubting. I know I went through a deep doubting. I know I went through a deep doubting. I know I went through a deep deep season of doubting. And I still deep season of doubting. And I still deep season of doubting. And I still have my questions, right? There's have my questions, right? There's have my questions, right? There's there's there's a few things about which there's there's a few things about which there's there's a few things about which we have clarity and a lot of things we have clarity and a lot of things we have clarity and a lot of things about which not so much. And you know, I about which not so much. And you know, I about which not so much. And you know, I I think the the temptation for a lot of I think the the temptation for a lot of I think the the temptation for a lot of us is to try to be absolutely clear and us is to try to be absolutely clear and us is to try to be absolutely clear and unequivocal on everything. And I think unequivocal on everything. And I think unequivocal on everything. And I think if God speaks in a loud voice, we can if God speaks in a loud voice, we can if God speaks in a loud voice, we can speak with more confidence. If God is speak with more confidence. If God is speak with more confidence. If God is quiet on something, be careful not to to quiet on something, be careful not to to quiet on something, be careful not to to overstate what what God hasn't directly overstate what what God hasn't directly overstate what what God hasn't directly said. That's my own view. said. That's my own view. said. That's my own view. >> Right. Right. And and encouraging folks >> Right. Right. And and encouraging folks >> Right. Right. And and encouraging folks to continue the practice. Uh, one thing to continue the practice. Uh, one thing to continue the practice. Uh, one thing I learned from from the rabbi that I I learned from from the rabbi that I I learned from from the rabbi that I spoke with, spoke with, spoke with, >> uh, he said that there's a a verse in >> uh, he said that there's a a verse in >> uh, he said that there's a a verse in the Hebrew that, um, says, uh, the Hebrew that, um, says, uh, the Hebrew that, um, says, uh, which translates into we, this is when which translates into we, this is when which translates into we, this is when they're, uh, when the Israelites are they're, uh, when the Israelites are they're, uh, when the Israelites are are, uh, in in the Sinai and, uh, they are, uh, in in the Sinai and, uh, they are, uh, in in the Sinai and, uh, they say, "We will do and we will hear."

say, "We will do and we will hear." say, "We will do and we will hear." That first comes the doing, then comes That first comes the doing, then comes That first comes the doing, then comes the understanding. And I think that's the understanding. And I think that's the understanding. And I think that's that's a beautiful reminder that uh I that's a beautiful reminder that uh I that's a beautiful reminder that uh I had it completely backwards that first I had it completely backwards that first I had it completely backwards that first I need to understand exactly what I'm need to understand exactly what I'm need to understand exactly what I'm doing and then I can do it. But there's doing and then I can do it. But there's doing and then I can do it. But there's amazing benefits to the doing first, amazing benefits to the doing first, amazing benefits to the doing first, right? That you can get the benefits of right? That you can get the benefits of right? That you can get the benefits of prayer even if you don't agree or prayer even if you don't agree or prayer even if you don't agree or understand exactly everything. That's understand exactly everything. That's understand exactly everything. That's okay. That understanding may come. It okay. That understanding may come. It okay. That understanding may come. It may never come. You may always have may never come. You may always have may never come. You may always have doubts and that's okay. doubts and that's okay. doubts and that's okay. >> Forgive me because I I don't know the >> Forgive me because I I don't know the >> Forgive me because I I don't know the answer to this question. Was that your answer to this question. Was that your answer to this question. Was that your background growing up Jewish or was it background growing up Jewish or was it background growing up Jewish or was it else? Okay. Yeah. else? Okay. Yeah. else? Okay. Yeah. >> Yeah. I I but but that just happened to >> Yeah. I I but but that just happened to >> Yeah. I I but but that just happened to be the first religious leader between be the first religious leader between be the first religious leader between the the imam, the the priest, the swami the the imam, the the priest, the swami the the imam, the the priest, the swami [clears throat] and the the monk and the [clears throat] and the the monk and the [clears throat] and the the monk and the rabbi. That just happened to be the rabbi. That just happened to be the rabbi. That just happened to be the first person I spoke with. first person I spoke with. first person I spoke with. >> Huh. Huh. >> Huh. Huh. >> Huh. Huh. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You know, and you get into monk >> Yeah. You know, and you get into monk >> Yeah. You know, and you get into monk traditions within Christianity, it's traditions within Christianity, it's traditions within Christianity, it's very much about that the understanding very much about that the understanding very much about that the understanding comes through the doing, through the comes through the doing, through the comes through the doing, through the keeping of the daily office, the hours, keeping of the daily office, the hours, keeping of the daily office, the hours, etc., etc. And uh you know, I sit right etc., etc. And uh you know, I sit right etc., etc. And uh you know, I sit right there. Whoops. right there in the there. Whoops. right there in the there. Whoops. right there in the morning and uh and I have my doing and morning and uh and I have my doing and morning and uh and I have my doing and it makes a big difference big difference it makes a big difference big difference it makes a big difference big difference and not every day where you're like ah and not every day where you're like ah and not every day where you're like ah >> no no no not at all once in a while you >> no no no not at all once in a while you >> no no no not at all once in a while you get an ah get an ah get an ah >> for the most part it's just a long >> for the most part it's just a long >> for the most part it's just a long obedience in the same direction obedience in the same direction obedience in the same direction >> and I appreciate you sharing that >> and I appreciate you sharing that >> and I appreciate you sharing that anything else on on belief and prayer anything else on on belief and prayer anything else on on belief and prayer and faith and faith and faith >> yeah I think that uh that that was a big >> yeah I think that uh that that was a big >> yeah I think that uh that that was a big transformation for me and I I I I hope

transformation for me and I I I I hope transformation for me and I I I I hope it inspires others as well. I think uh I it inspires others as well. I think uh I it inspires others as well. I think uh I I have a lot more respect and I have a lot more respect and I have a lot more respect and appreciation I think uh for people of uh appreciation I think uh for people of uh appreciation I think uh for people of uh various traditions. I think that we have various traditions. I think that we have various traditions. I think that we have so much to learn from from others um so much to learn from from others um so much to learn from from others um that uh that that that allowing that uh that that that allowing that uh that that that allowing ourselves again back to this the amazing ourselves again back to this the amazing ourselves again back to this the amazing gift that comes from from learning gift that comes from from learning gift that comes from from learning others that we can uh that releasing others that we can uh that releasing others that we can uh that releasing some of that that certainty uh and and some of that that certainty uh and and some of that that certainty uh and and judgment. I think a lot of what I judgment. I think a lot of what I judgment. I think a lot of what I learned from the the Buddhist tradition learned from the the Buddhist tradition learned from the the Buddhist tradition was around how you know pain is certain was around how you know pain is certain was around how you know pain is certain but suffering is optional that in fact but suffering is optional that in fact but suffering is optional that in fact it's our judgment it's our constant it's our judgment it's our constant it's our judgment it's our constant judging of good bad good bad good bad uh judging of good bad good bad good bad uh judging of good bad good bad good bad uh in everything in our life whether it's in everything in our life whether it's in everything in our life whether it's what's happening to us right we're we're what's happening to us right we're we're what's happening to us right we're we're delayed at the airport that's bad we our delayed at the airport that's bad we our delayed at the airport that's bad we our publisher doesn't doesn't sign us that's publisher doesn't doesn't sign us that's publisher doesn't doesn't sign us that's bad you know we we judge so much of our bad you know we we judge so much of our bad you know we we judge so much of our of our life of our life of our life >> and that is actually the source of our >> and that is actually the source of our >> and that is actually the source of our suffering the source of our suffering is suffering the source of our suffering is suffering the source of our suffering is from this constant judgement ment uh from this constant judgement ment uh from this constant judgement ment uh because we don't know we we don't know because we don't know we we don't know because we don't know we we don't know [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> so it's a much more beneficial belief is >> so it's a much more beneficial belief is >> so it's a much more beneficial belief is to have that uncertainty to say who am I to have that uncertainty to say who am I to have that uncertainty to say who am I to think I know what will at the end of to think I know what will at the end of to think I know what will at the end of the day result in good or bad that a the day result in good or bad that a the day result in good or bad that a much healthier belief is well we'll much healthier belief is well we'll much healthier belief is well we'll we'll we'll take it as it as it comes we'll we'll take it as it as it comes we'll we'll take it as it as it comes that I I'll I I choose to see the that I I'll I I choose to see the that I I'll I I choose to see the learning opportunity uh and the benefit learning opportunity uh and the benefit learning opportunity uh and the benefit of of of what happens to me. Well, I'm of of of what happens to me. Well, I'm of of of what happens to me. Well, I'm really glad to see that chapter of your really glad to see that chapter of your really glad to see that chapter of your life open up and really anxious to see life open up and really anxious to see life open up and really anxious to see where this goes. So, self self-limiting where this goes. So, self self-limiting where this goes. So, self self-limiting beliefs, I think that's huge. I mean,

beliefs, I think that's huge. I mean, beliefs, I think that's huge. I mean, that's been a part of my life, like I'm that's been a part of my life, like I'm that's been a part of my life, like I'm trying to get over still at this stage trying to get over still at this stage trying to get over still at this stage and age, self-limiting beliefs. But one and age, self-limiting beliefs. But one and age, self-limiting beliefs. But one of the things I hear from church leaders of the things I hear from church leaders of the things I hear from church leaders and just leaders in general, near is and just leaders in general, near is and just leaders in general, near is >> I'll hear, well, that's a great theory, >> I'll hear, well, that's a great theory, >> I'll hear, well, that's a great theory, very similar to your office hours. Great very similar to your office hours. Great very similar to your office hours. Great theory. Let me explain to you why it theory. Let me explain to you why it theory. Let me explain to you why it doesn't work here. M doesn't work here. M doesn't work here. M >> and it bothered me for years, right? >> and it bothered me for years, right? >> and it bothered me for years, right? Because we saw by the grace of God a Because we saw by the grace of God a Because we saw by the grace of God a church grow explosively an hour north of church grow explosively an hour north of church grow explosively an hour north of Toronto. And I would drive to Toronto Toronto. And I would drive to Toronto Toronto. And I would drive to Toronto >> and sort of report on what was happening >> and sort of report on what was happening >> and sort of report on what was happening here. And they would be like, oh yeah, here. And they would be like, oh yeah, here. And they would be like, oh yeah, well that won't work here in the city well that won't work here in the city well that won't work here in the city and the reason is and I'm like, have you and the reason is and I'm like, have you and the reason is and I'm like, have you been to where I am? Like we have cows been to where I am? Like we have cows been to where I am? Like we have cows for neighbors like this is working. But for neighbors like this is working. But for neighbors like this is working. But they always had all these ideas about they always had all these ideas about they always had all these ideas about why it would never work. And I hear that why it would never work. And I hear that why it would never work. And I hear that from leaders and I've sort of come up from leaders and I've sort of come up from leaders and I've sort of come up with a line that look if it's not going with a line that look if it's not going with a line that look if it's not going to work in your town then Apple wouldn't to work in your town then Apple wouldn't to work in your town then Apple wouldn't sell iPhones there. sell iPhones there. sell iPhones there. >> They just wouldn't, right? Meta Meta >> They just wouldn't, right? Meta Meta >> They just wouldn't, right? Meta Meta wouldn't offer Facebook and Instagram in wouldn't offer Facebook and Instagram in wouldn't offer Facebook and Instagram in your community because people are just your community because people are just your community because people are just so fundamentally different. so fundamentally different. so fundamentally different. >> But as leaders, I don't know what does >> But as leaders, I don't know what does >> But as leaders, I don't know what does that do? Does that make us feel special?

that do? Does that make us feel special? that do? Does that make us feel special? Does that justify a lack of results? Does that justify a lack of results? Does that justify a lack of results? Like what does the this isn't going to Like what does the this isn't going to Like what does the this isn't going to work in my town, this doesn't apply to work in my town, this doesn't apply to work in my town, this doesn't apply to me? me? me? What is that self-limiting belief? Where What is that self-limiting belief? Where What is that self-limiting belief? Where does it come from and do you see it? does it come from and do you see it? does it come from and do you see it? What do you do about it? What do you do about it? What do you do about it? >> Well, we see it everywhere in society >> Well, we see it everywhere in society >> Well, we see it everywhere in society these days. In fact, there's a chapter these days. In fact, there's a chapter these days. In fact, there's a chapter in my book called Your Labels Are Your in my book called Your Labels Are Your in my book called Your Labels Are Your Limits. Limits. Limits. >> And uh it's one of the it's one of the >> And uh it's one of the it's one of the >> And uh it's one of the it's one of the the the chapters at the end because it's the the chapters at the end because it's the the chapters at the end because it's one of the more controversial ones and one of the more controversial ones and one of the more controversial ones and so I didn't want to make a lot of people so I didn't want to make a lot of people so I didn't want to make a lot of people angry at me in the beginning, but I I angry at me in the beginning, but I I angry at me in the beginning, but I I talk about um uh the noibo effect. And I talk about um uh the noibo effect. And I talk about um uh the noibo effect. And I I'll I'll give you a little anecdote I'll I'll give you a little anecdote I'll I'll give you a little anecdote here that that blew my mind. Uh there here that that blew my mind. Uh there here that that blew my mind. Uh there was a case of a gentleman by the name of was a case of a gentleman by the name of was a case of a gentleman by the name of Mr. A they had to anonymize his name Mr. A they had to anonymize his name Mr. A they had to anonymize his name this so they called him Mr. A in the this so they called him Mr. A in the this so they called him Mr. A in the literature and this was a young man in literature and this was a young man in literature and this was a young man in his 20s and he is reported to have burst his 20s and he is reported to have burst his 20s and he is reported to have burst into an emergency room into an emergency room into an emergency room uh pills in hand. He collapsed on the uh pills in hand. He collapsed on the uh pills in hand. He collapsed on the floor and as soon as the medical staff floor and as soon as the medical staff floor and as soon as the medical staff picked him up he said I took all my picked him up he said I took all my picked him up he said I took all my pills. I took all my pills. They rush pills. I took all my pills. They rush pills. I took all my pills. They rush him to the operating room. They observe him to the operating room. They observe him to the operating room. They observe him. They hook him up to every device him. They hook him up to every device him. They hook him up to every device they could possibly think of. His blood they could possibly think of. His blood they could possibly think of. His blood pressure is dangerously low. His heart pressure is dangerously low. His heart pressure is dangerously low. His heart rate is is is falling. And uh all the rate is is is falling. And uh all the rate is is is falling. And uh all the staff is is is convinced he's overdosed staff is is is convinced he's overdosed staff is is is convinced he's overdosed on he's convinced he's overdosed on on he's convinced he's overdosed on on he's convinced he's overdosed on whatever pills he has. But he doesn't whatever pills he has. But he doesn't whatever pills he has. But he doesn't know what's in the pills because the know what's in the pills because the know what's in the pills because the pills were given to him in a drug trial.

pills were given to him in a drug trial. pills were given to him in a drug trial. And so he doesn't know what what the And so he doesn't know what what the And so he doesn't know what what the pills are made of when the doctors ask pills are made of when the doctors ask pills are made of when the doctors ask him because there's no it doesn't say on him because there's no it doesn't say on him because there's no it doesn't say on the label it because it was given in the label it because it was given in the label it because it was given in this drug trial. So they call the people this drug trial. So they call the people this drug trial. So they call the people who are running this study and they say, who are running this study and they say, who are running this study and they say, "What is in these pills? We need to know "What is in these pills? We need to know "What is in these pills? We need to know what's in them so that we can cure this what's in them so that we can cure this what's in them so that we can cure this guy and they they say, "Give us one guy and they they say, "Give us one guy and they they say, "Give us one minute." They look up his records and minute." They look up his records and minute." They look up his records and they say, "Oh, he was in the placebo they say, "Oh, he was in the placebo they say, "Oh, he was in the placebo group." group." group." That this the the overdose was of an That this the the overdose was of an That this the the overdose was of an inert substance, right? There was inert substance, right? There was inert substance, right? There was nothing in those pills. He took he took nothing in those pills. He took he took nothing in those pills. He took he took sugar pills or something that was sugar pills or something that was sugar pills or something that was completely a placebo. This is a real completely a placebo. This is a real completely a placebo. This is a real reported case. reported case. reported case. >> They tell this guy that's what happened. >> They tell this guy that's what happened. >> They tell this guy that's what happened. And within 15 minutes, his low blood And within 15 minutes, his low blood And within 15 minutes, his low blood pressure, his failing heartbeat, all pressure, his failing heartbeat, all pressure, his failing heartbeat, all this stuff immediately goes back to this stuff immediately goes back to this stuff immediately goes back to normal and he feels fine. normal and he feels fine. normal and he feels fine. >> Wow. [sighs] >> Wow. [sighs] >> Wow. [sighs] >> And so that is such an amazing >> And so that is such an amazing >> And so that is such an amazing demonstration of what we call the noibo demonstration of what we call the noibo demonstration of what we call the noibo effect. We know the placebo effect. The effect. We know the placebo effect. The effect. We know the placebo effect. The placebo effect comes from the Greek I placebo effect comes from the Greek I placebo effect comes from the Greek I shall heal. I shall please. The noibo shall heal. I shall please. The noibo shall heal. I shall please. The noibo effect is the opposite. It's I shall effect is the opposite. It's I shall effect is the opposite. It's I shall hurt. And we carry around these limiting hurt. And we carry around these limiting hurt. And we carry around these limiting beliefs like noios all the time. these beliefs like noios all the time. these beliefs like noios all the time. these labels that we often times really like.

labels that we often times really like. labels that we often times really like. I mean the the thing I take to task I I mean the the thing I take to task I I mean the the thing I take to task I think is is I think our think is is I think our think is is I think our overmedicalization of a lot of things. overmedicalization of a lot of things. overmedicalization of a lot of things. Uh we know that the United States of Uh we know that the United States of Uh we know that the United States of America has I think a population of America has I think a population of America has I think a population of about 5% of the world's population and about 5% of the world's population and about 5% of the world's population and 85% 85% 85% of the intake of ADHD medication of the intake of ADHD medication of the intake of ADHD medication that 25% of US boys have ADHD. H that 25% of US boys have ADHD. H that 25% of US boys have ADHD. H how how what are we talking about? how how what are we talking about? how how what are we talking about? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know, there's there's a wonderful >> You know, there's there's a wonderful >> You know, there's there's a wonderful quote that I I I cite in the book and I quote that I I I cite in the book and I quote that I I I cite in the book and I can't remember who said it, but it was can't remember who said it, but it was can't remember who said it, but it was genius that someday medical science will genius that someday medical science will genius that someday medical science will advance to the point where we're all advance to the point where we're all advance to the point where we're all sick. sick. sick. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> And that's exactly what's happening. >> And that's exactly what's happening. >> And that's exactly what's happening. >> It is >> It is >> It is >> because the we have so many interests >> because the we have so many interests >> because the we have so many interests that want to prescribe us, that want to that want to prescribe us, that want to that want to prescribe us, that want to label us. And and I'm not saying that label us. And and I'm not saying that label us. And and I'm not saying that that's wrong. Clearly, there is a time that's wrong. Clearly, there is a time that's wrong. Clearly, there is a time and a place. It's very helpful when you and a place. It's very helpful when you and a place. It's very helpful when you have a sickness to be told what that have a sickness to be told what that have a sickness to be told what that sickness is so that you can do something sickness is so that you can do something sickness is so that you can do something about it.

about it. about it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> However, when that becomes our identity, >> However, when that becomes our identity, >> However, when that becomes our identity, when that becomes something that we take when that becomes something that we take when that becomes something that we take comfort in, we call this the rumple comfort in, we call this the rumple comfort in, we call this the rumple stillkin effect. Do you remember the stillkin effect. Do you remember the stillkin effect. Do you remember the rumple stillkin story rumple stillkin story rumple stillkin story >> of the princess who has Yeah. that the >> of the princess who has Yeah. that the >> of the princess who has Yeah. that the princess has to weave the the hay into princess has to weave the the hay into princess has to weave the the hay into gold or whatever and she's approached by gold or whatever and she's approached by gold or whatever and she's approached by a a little troll guy who um if she a a little troll guy who um if she a a little troll guy who um if she guesses his name then she can break the guesses his name then she can break the guesses his name then she can break the spell. So that's actually in psychology. spell. So that's actually in psychology. spell. So that's actually in psychology. It's a known phenomenon. It's called the It's a known phenomenon. It's called the It's a known phenomenon. It's called the Rumple Stillskin effect that by naming Rumple Stillskin effect that by naming Rumple Stillskin effect that by naming something by having a special condition something by having a special condition something by having a special condition we get control over the uncontrollable. we get control over the uncontrollable. we get control over the uncontrollable. So I'm having difficulty doing XYZ. Ah So I'm having difficulty doing XYZ. Ah So I'm having difficulty doing XYZ. Ah that's my label. That becomes my that's my label. That becomes my that's my label. That becomes my diagnosis. That's very comfortable. We diagnosis. That's very comfortable. We diagnosis. That's very comfortable. We see this on social media all the time. see this on social media all the time. see this on social media all the time. All these madeup diseases that don't All these madeup diseases that don't All these madeup diseases that don't exist. They only exist on social media. exist. They only exist on social media. exist. They only exist on social media. They don't exist in the medical They don't exist in the medical They don't exist in the medical literature. You know, all these crazy literature. You know, all these crazy literature. You know, all these crazy things that you hear on social media, things that you hear on social media, things that you hear on social media, but people glob onto them because it but people glob onto them because it but people glob onto them because it makes them feel better. It helps them makes them feel better. It helps them makes them feel better. It helps them have control. So, it's exactly what you have control. So, it's exactly what you have control. So, it's exactly what you said. This won't work here. Why? What said. This won't work here. Why? What said. This won't work here. Why? What are we doing? We're labeling our are we doing? We're labeling our are we doing? We're labeling our situation as special, as different, as situation as special, as different, as situation as special, as different, as other because it absolves us of the other because it absolves us of the other because it absolves us of the responsibility of control. Because if responsibility of control. Because if responsibility of control. Because if we're different, we're different, we're different, nothing can be done. I don't have to do nothing can be done. I don't have to do nothing can be done. I don't have to do anything. [laughter] anything. [laughter] anything. [laughter] So, I'm not saying that's the case in So, I'm not saying that's the case in So, I'm not saying that's the case in all circumstances, but very often what all circumstances, but very often what all circumstances, but very often what we find is that our labels are our we find is that our labels are our we find is that our labels are our limits. And that can be a a a huge limits. And that can be a a a huge limits. And that can be a a a huge cognitive trap.

cognitive trap. cognitive trap. >> What are some other limits that you see >> What are some other limits that you see >> What are some other limits that you see in leaders all the time? Because I think in leaders all the time? Because I think in leaders all the time? Because I think this is really important. you know, this is really important. you know, this is really important. you know, there there's there's sort of this view there there's there's sort of this view there there's there's sort of this view that um ignorance is bliss, but that um ignorance is bliss, but that um ignorance is bliss, but ignorance is also really helpful. I've ignorance is also really helpful. I've ignorance is also really helpful. I've been in leadership for 30 years now, and been in leadership for 30 years now, and been in leadership for 30 years now, and I talked to other people who are in a I talked to other people who are in a I talked to other people who are in a similar season. And I think part of what similar season. And I think part of what similar season. And I think part of what made the early years of leadership so made the early years of leadership so made the early years of leadership so explosive is we didn't know what we explosive is we didn't know what we explosive is we didn't know what we weren't supposed to do. weren't supposed to do. weren't supposed to do. >> Do you know what I mean? Like you just >> Do you know what I mean? Like you just >> Do you know what I mean? Like you just get in there and it's like anything is get in there and it's like anything is get in there and it's like anything is possible and suddenly possible and suddenly possible and suddenly >> anything is possible. You can sell >> anything is possible. You can sell >> anything is possible. You can sell hundred-y old buildings. You can merge hundred-y old buildings. You can merge hundred-y old buildings. You can merge three congregations. You can reach a three congregations. You can reach a three congregations. You can reach a whole bunch of new people. You can build whole bunch of new people. You can build whole bunch of new people. You can build buildings. You can do you can do all of buildings. You can do you can do all of buildings. You can do you can do all of this stuff that everybody said was this stuff that everybody said was this stuff that everybody said was impossible impossible impossible >> because you're kind of dumb. You're just >> because you're kind of dumb. You're just >> because you're kind of dumb. You're just starting out. You don't you don't know starting out. You don't you don't know starting out. You don't you don't know any better. And I'm wondering, you know, any better. And I'm wondering, you know, any better. And I'm wondering, you know, what are some of the other self-limiting what are some of the other self-limiting what are some of the other self-limiting beliefs or factors that you see out beliefs or factors that you see out beliefs or factors that you see out there? there? there? >> Yeah, this is this such a great point >> Yeah, this is this such a great point >> Yeah, this is this such a great point and and this is what we we call this and and this is what we we call this and and this is what we we call this entrepreneurial alertness. And there's a entrepreneurial alertness. And there's a entrepreneurial alertness. And there's a scientific literature about this scientific literature about this scientific literature about this phenomen phenomen phenomen entrepreneurial alertness. And uh it entrepreneurial alertness. And uh it entrepreneurial alertness. And uh it comes from the fact that people who have comes from the fact that people who have comes from the fact that people who have an entrepreneurial bent an entrepreneurial bent an entrepreneurial bent >> literally see reality differently. They >> literally see reality differently. They >> literally see reality differently. They can lit, you know, and this isn't can lit, you know, and this isn't can lit, you know, and this isn't figurative. They actually see reality as figurative. They actually see reality as figurative. They actually see reality as different. And we see this all the time.

different. And we see this all the time. different. And we see this all the time. There's all kinds of experiments that we There's all kinds of experiments that we There's all kinds of experiments that we can run on people that show us that that can run on people that show us that that can run on people that show us that that you can perceive reality differently you can perceive reality differently you can perceive reality differently based on your beliefs, based on your based on your beliefs, based on your based on your beliefs, based on your what we call priors, your your prior what we call priors, your your prior what we call priors, your your prior experiences. Um, and there's a there's a experiences. Um, and there's a there's a experiences. Um, and there's a there's a beautiful experiment where they uh gave beautiful experiment where they uh gave beautiful experiment where they uh gave people uh who were self-identified people uh who were self-identified people uh who were self-identified optimists or pessimists, they gave them optimists or pessimists, they gave them optimists or pessimists, they gave them the same task. And the task was to look the same task. And the task was to look the same task. And the task was to look through a a a booklet, a little through a a a booklet, a little through a a a booklet, a little magazine, and circle all the E. magazine, and circle all the E. magazine, and circle all the E. Everywhere you saw an E, you have to Everywhere you saw an E, you have to Everywhere you saw an E, you have to take a red pen and circle all the E. And take a red pen and circle all the E. And take a red pen and circle all the E. And when you were finished, you get a a when you were finished, you get a a when you were finished, you get a a little reward. They gave you some money. little reward. They gave you some money. little reward. They gave you some money. What they found was when people did this What they found was when people did this What they found was when people did this experiment, there was a little bit of a experiment, there was a little bit of a experiment, there was a little bit of a trick that as they were going through trick that as they were going through trick that as they were going through this task, there was an ad in this this task, there was an ad in this this task, there was an ad in this little pamphlet in this magazine that little pamphlet in this magazine that little pamphlet in this magazine that said, "If you're reading this, the said, "If you're reading this, the said, "If you're reading this, the experiment is over. Go collect your experiment is over. Go collect your experiment is over. Go collect your money." money." money." People who were optimists saw that ad at People who were optimists saw that ad at People who were optimists saw that ad at a much higher rate and went to go a much higher rate and went to go a much higher rate and went to go collect their money than the pessimists.

collect their money than the pessimists. collect their money than the pessimists. The pessimists were there like dope The pessimists were there like dope The pessimists were there like dope circling all the ease until the very circling all the ease until the very circling all the ease until the very end. They didn't they literally did not end. They didn't they literally did not end. They didn't they literally did not see the ad. They didn't see the see the ad. They didn't see the see the ad. They didn't see the opportunity right staring them in the opportunity right staring them in the opportunity right staring them in the face because they had different priors. face because they had different priors. face because they had different priors. They expected things to be the way they They expected things to be the way they They expected things to be the way they are. Oh, you know, this this task I if are. Oh, you know, this this task I if are. Oh, you know, this this task I if if I'm getting paid for it, it's got to if I'm getting paid for it, it's got to if I'm getting paid for it, it's got to suck. It's got it has to be miserable. suck. It's got it has to be miserable. suck. It's got it has to be miserable. It has to be effortful. So, I better It has to be effortful. So, I better It has to be effortful. So, I better just sit there and cross all the ease. just sit there and cross all the ease. just sit there and cross all the ease. And so, they didn't see the opportunity And so, they didn't see the opportunity And so, they didn't see the opportunity staring them right in the face. staring them right in the face. staring them right in the face. Literally, money on the ground that they Literally, money on the ground that they Literally, money on the ground that they could just have to bend over and pick it could just have to bend over and pick it could just have to bend over and pick it up. but they didn't believe it because up. but they didn't believe it because up. but they didn't believe it because ah you know they they didn't even see ah you know they they didn't even see ah you know they they didn't even see it. And so I think that's a wonderful it. And so I think that's a wonderful it. And so I think that's a wonderful demonstration of of somehow sometimes demonstration of of somehow sometimes demonstration of of somehow sometimes how that that naive how not having those how that that naive how not having those how that that naive how not having those prior beliefs of why things don't work prior beliefs of why things don't work prior beliefs of why things don't work can can actually really benefit us can can actually really benefit us can can actually really benefit us because we see opportunities that other because we see opportunities that other because we see opportunities that other people just can't see. people just can't see. people just can't see. >> I think about that a lot. Um, you know, >> I think about that a lot. Um, you know, >> I think about that a lot. Um, you know, you think about Richard Branson and he you think about Richard Branson and he you think about Richard Branson and he saw stuff like, oh, we can create a saw stuff like, oh, we can create a saw stuff like, oh, we can create a record label. We can create record record label. We can create record record label. We can create record stores. We, hey, why not start an stores. We, hey, why not start an stores. We, hey, why not start an airline? Hey, why not start a cruise airline? Hey, why not start a cruise airline? Hey, why not start a cruise line? Like, my brain doesn't quite work line? Like, my brain doesn't quite work line? Like, my brain doesn't quite work that way. Or take Mark Zuckerberg, that way. Or take Mark Zuckerberg, that way. Or take Mark Zuckerberg, right? A little more recent example.

right? A little more recent example. right? A little more recent example. You know, a very plausible story for You know, a very plausible story for You know, a very plausible story for Zuck would have been, yeah, we had this Zuck would have been, yeah, we had this Zuck would have been, yeah, we had this cool little thing called the Facebook. cool little thing called the Facebook. cool little thing called the Facebook. It was an app that me and my friends It was an app that me and my friends It was an app that me and my friends built. We built it when we were in built. We built it when we were in built. We built it when we were in college and then I graduated and then I college and then I graduated and then I college and then I graduated and then I got a corporate job and kind of died got a corporate job and kind of died got a corporate job and kind of died there. Became one of the biggest there. Became one of the biggest there. Became one of the biggest companies in the world. And I'm always companies in the world. And I'm always companies in the world. And I'm always asking myself like what causes that? I I asking myself like what causes that? I I asking myself like what causes that? I I did an interview a few months ago with did an interview a few months ago with did an interview a few months ago with David Ashcraft who went to literally David Ashcraft who went to literally David Ashcraft who went to literally Menanite country and built a church that Menanite country and built a church that Menanite country and built a church that would go on to become one of the largest would go on to become one of the largest would go on to become one of the largest churches in the nation in the middle of churches in the nation in the middle of churches in the nation in the middle of nowhere. Or Craig Gashelle. Um Oklahoma nowhere. Or Craig Gashelle. Um Oklahoma nowhere. Or Craig Gashelle. Um Oklahoma City. I went into Oklahoma City. best City. I went into Oklahoma City. best City. I went into Oklahoma City. best basketball team in the NBA right now. basketball team in the NBA right now. basketball team in the NBA right now. And just down the road, biggest church And just down the road, biggest church And just down the road, biggest church in the United States. As I'm flying in, in the United States. As I'm flying in, in the United States. As I'm flying in, you know, I'm thinking to myself, if you you know, I'm thinking to myself, if you you know, I'm thinking to myself, if you were sitting there in the 1990s and were sitting there in the 1990s and were sitting there in the 1990s and said, "Okay, we're going to plant the said, "Okay, we're going to plant the said, "Okay, we're going to plant the biggest church in the United States." biggest church in the United States." biggest church in the United States." And you know what we've done? And you know what we've done? And you know what we've done? [clears throat] We have selected [clears throat] We have selected [clears throat] We have selected Oklahoma City because this is where all Oklahoma City because this is where all Oklahoma City because this is where all the growth is.

the growth is. the growth is. >> It's not where all the growth is, but >> It's not where all the growth is, but >> It's not where all the growth is, but people just see things differently. And people just see things differently. And people just see things differently. And I'm curious, you know, when you when you I'm curious, you know, when you when you I'm curious, you know, when you when you think about that, is that something that think about that, is that something that think about that, is that something that can be learned or is that innate or what can be learned or is that innate or what can be learned or is that innate or what is that? Like when you think about Zuck is that? Like when you think about Zuck is that? Like when you think about Zuck or you think about Richard Branson or or you think about Richard Branson or or you think about Richard Branson or some of these church planters who go in some of these church planters who go in some of these church planters who go in and literally make something out of and literally make something out of and literally make something out of nothing, what tell us more of what's nothing, what tell us more of what's nothing, what tell us more of what's behind that. Yeah, I I I think it is uh behind that. Yeah, I I I think it is uh behind that. Yeah, I I I think it is uh you know they say that um the people who you know they say that um the people who you know they say that um the people who um have these worldchanging ideas, they um have these worldchanging ideas, they um have these worldchanging ideas, they tend to see the world differently. Uh tend to see the world differently. Uh tend to see the world differently. Uh you when you read Walter Isacson's uh you when you read Walter Isacson's uh you when you read Walter Isacson's uh biography of Steve Jobs, he talks about biography of Steve Jobs, he talks about biography of Steve Jobs, he talks about how people would say that Jobs had a how people would say that Jobs had a how people would say that Jobs had a reality distortion field that followed reality distortion field that followed reality distortion field that followed him everywhere he went. Uh that he he him everywhere he went. Uh that he he him everywhere he went. Uh that he he just saw the world differently. And and just saw the world differently. And and just saw the world differently. And and what was amazing is that he could see what was amazing is that he could see what was amazing is that he could see the world differently and then will it the world differently and then will it the world differently and then will it to actually be different and and and why to actually be different and and and why to actually be different and and and why is that? It comes from persistent is that? It comes from persistent is that? It comes from persistent action, right? It comes from believing action, right? It comes from believing action, right? It comes from believing in an opportunity uh and then following in an opportunity uh and then following in an opportunity uh and then following that belief over a very long period of that belief over a very long period of that belief over a very long period of time. But without that belief, you don't time. But without that belief, you don't time. But without that belief, you don't get that sustained motivation. And I get that sustained motivation. And I get that sustained motivation. And I think that's that's the critical part think that's that's the critical part think that's that's the critical part that we miss. And I think part of it that we miss. And I think part of it that we miss. And I think part of it happens uh unfortunately there's a trap happens uh unfortunately there's a trap happens uh unfortunately there's a trap that happens to smart people that all that happens to smart people that all that happens to smart people that all too often smart people analyze too often smart people analyze too often smart people analyze themselves out of good ideas because themselves out of good ideas because themselves out of good ideas because probabilistically none of these probabilistically none of these probabilistically none of these worldchanging ideas makes any sense,

worldchanging ideas makes any sense, worldchanging ideas makes any sense, right? Like you you you pick right? Like you you you pick right? Like you you you pick >> it's probably not going to happen. >> it's probably not going to happen. >> it's probably not going to happen. >> It's probably not because it doesn't. I >> It's probably not because it doesn't. I >> It's probably not because it doesn't. I mean, if you want to start a company mean, if you want to start a company mean, if you want to start a company because you want to get rich, you're because you want to get rich, you're because you want to get rich, you're just bad at math because the prob the just bad at math because the prob the just bad at math because the prob the probabilities of succeeding in that probabilities of succeeding in that probabilities of succeeding in that business suck, [laughter] right? Like business suck, [laughter] right? Like business suck, [laughter] right? Like you're just like the numbers, you're just like the numbers, you're just like the numbers, >> right? So, what does smart people do? >> right? So, what does smart people do? >> right? So, what does smart people do? They run the numbers. They say it's They run the numbers. They say it's They run the numbers. They say it's unlikely. Nah, never mind. I'll stick unlikely. Nah, never mind. I'll stick unlikely. Nah, never mind. I'll stick with my my boring job that I hate and with my my boring job that I hate and with my my boring job that I hate and I'll just work there for 100 years and I'll just work there for 100 years and I'll just work there for 100 years and and that'll be my life. Well, that's not and that'll be my life. Well, that's not and that'll be my life. Well, that's not the people who change the world. Not the people who change the world. Not the people who change the world. Not that there's anything wrong with work that there's anything wrong with work that there's anything wrong with work working a long-term job if you love it. working a long-term job if you love it. working a long-term job if you love it. But if you hate it and you can't see the But if you hate it and you can't see the But if you hate it and you can't see the opportunity ahead of you, you can't see opportunity ahead of you, you can't see opportunity ahead of you, you can't see what other people are are seeing out what other people are are seeing out what other people are are seeing out there, well then you're you're going to there, well then you're you're going to there, well then you're you're going to live your life, I think, with with live your life, I think, with with live your life, I think, with with regret. So it turns out you can actually regret. So it turns out you can actually regret. So it turns out you can actually make your own luck. That luck isn't make your own luck. That luck isn't make your own luck. That luck isn't chance. We think that there is such a chance. We think that there is such a chance. We think that there is such a thing as lucky people and unlucky thing as lucky people and unlucky thing as lucky people and unlucky people. Turns out that statistically people. Turns out that statistically people. Turns out that statistically that's not true. That the same lucky and that's not true. That the same lucky and that's not true. That the same lucky and unlucky things happen to just about unlucky things happen to just about unlucky things happen to just about everybody, right? Everybody's on this everybody, right? Everybody's on this everybody, right? Everybody's on this distribution curve. distribution curve. distribution curve. >> What do you mean by that? Like luck luck >> What do you mean by that? Like luck luck >> What do you mean by that? Like luck luck is like just to explain that because I is like just to explain that because I is like just to explain that because I always say I'm very fortunate, you know, always say I'm very fortunate, you know, always say I'm very fortunate, you know, >> I'm I'm lucky like that this podcast >> I'm I'm lucky like that this podcast >> I'm I'm lucky like that this podcast took off. Come on, man.

took off. Come on, man. took off. Come on, man. >> Perfect. Oh my god, this is so perfect. >> Perfect. Oh my god, this is so perfect. >> Perfect. Oh my god, this is so perfect. You you've absolutely nailed it here. You you've absolutely nailed it here. You you've absolutely nailed it here. You you think you're fortunate that You you think you're fortunate that You you think you're fortunate that you're you're lucky that good things you're you're lucky that good things you're you're lucky that good things just happened to you live from my just happened to you live from my just happened to you live from my basement. Come on. basement. Come on. basement. Come on. >> Yeah. And what's amazing is because you >> Yeah. And what's amazing is because you >> Yeah. And what's amazing is because you believe that you see opportunities that believe that you see opportunities that believe that you see opportunities that other people don't see. Like physically other people don't see. Like physically other people don't see. Like physically your eyes register different information your eyes register different information your eyes register different information to your brain. You are sending different to your brain. You are sending different to your brain. You are sending different signals to your brain because of what's signals to your brain because of what's signals to your brain because of what's called prior you. So the way the brain called prior you. So the way the brain called prior you. So the way the brain works, we used to think the brain was a works, we used to think the brain was a works, we used to think the brain was a computer. That's not true. That in fact computer. That's not true. That in fact computer. That's not true. That in fact the brain doesn't compute with little the brain doesn't compute with little the brain doesn't compute with little mathematical functions. What the brain mathematical functions. What the brain mathematical functions. What the brain does is that it predicts reality. That does is that it predicts reality. That does is that it predicts reality. That in fact your brain is taking in right in fact your brain is taking in right in fact your brain is taking in right now 11 million bits of information. 11 now 11 million bits of information. 11 now 11 million bits of information. 11 million bits of information per second. million bits of information per second. million bits of information per second. That's like reading war in peace twice That's like reading war in peace twice That's like reading war in peace twice every second. So, uh the light hitting every second. So, uh the light hitting every second. So, uh the light hitting your retinas, the sound of my voice, uh your retinas, the sound of my voice, uh your retinas, the sound of my voice, uh the the the floor against your feet, all the the the floor against your feet, all the the the floor against your feet, all of these things, that information, your of these things, that information, your of these things, that information, your brain is actually taking in all that brain is actually taking in all that brain is actually taking in all that information. However, your conscious information. However, your conscious information. However, your conscious attention can only process about 50 bits attention can only process about 50 bits attention can only process about 50 bits of information. 50 bits versus 11 of information. 50 bits versus 11 of information. 50 bits versus 11 million bits. So, you're actually your million bits. So, you're actually your million bits. So, you're actually your conscious mind is only processing 0.45% conscious mind is only processing 0.45% conscious mind is only processing 0.45% four or five% of all the data that's four or five% of all the data that's four or five% of all the data that's coming in. How does your brain do it?

coming in. How does your brain do it? coming in. How does your brain do it? How can it possibly make sense of all How can it possibly make sense of all How can it possibly make sense of all that information? Well, what it does, it that information? Well, what it does, it that information? Well, what it does, it focuses all that information through a focuses all that information through a focuses all that information through a tiny keyhole of attention. tiny keyhole of attention. tiny keyhole of attention. >> So the and what what is that filter? >> So the and what what is that filter? >> So the and what what is that filter? That filter is belief. That filter is belief. That filter is belief. What you let into your conscious What you let into your conscious What you let into your conscious attention is filtered based on what you attention is filtered based on what you attention is filtered based on what you believe. So for you, you look at your believe. So for you, you look at your believe. So for you, you look at your life, you look at what what's happened life, you look at what what's happened life, you look at what what's happened to you, and you think you're fortunate, to you, and you think you're fortunate, to you, and you think you're fortunate, you think you're lucky, you think good you think you're lucky, you think good you think you're lucky, you think good things have happened to you, right? If things have happened to you, right? If things have happened to you, right? If you think you're unlucky, you see all you think you're unlucky, you see all you think you're unlucky, you see all the terrible things that have happened the terrible things that have happened the terrible things that have happened to you, even if the same things to you, even if the same things to you, even if the same things happened. happened. happened. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> It's a different, right? It's like I put >> It's a different, right? It's like I put >> It's a different, right? It's like I put on my oh, wo is me. on my oh, wo is me. on my oh, wo is me. >> I mean, I have woe is me days, but they >> I mean, I have woe is me days, but they >> I mean, I have woe is me days, but they tend to be a couple a year like. tend to be a couple a year like. tend to be a couple a year like. >> Yeah. Yeah. And and so that that it it >> Yeah. Yeah. And and so that that it it >> Yeah. Yeah. And and so that that it it what what it comes down to it's called what what it comes down to it's called what what it comes down to it's called an internal locus of control. So it an internal locus of control. So it an internal locus of control. So it turns out there's two kinds of u uh turns out there's two kinds of u uh turns out there's two kinds of u uh mindsets if you will around how people mindsets if you will around how people mindsets if you will around how people see the world. There's an internal locus see the world. There's an internal locus see the world. There's an internal locus of control and an external locus of of control and an external locus of of control and an external locus of control. External locus of control. You control. External locus of control. You control. External locus of control. You know these people uh it's you know this know these people uh it's you know this know these people uh it's you know this will never work in my town.

will never work in my town. will never work in my town. >> Never going to work in my town. Yeah. >> Never going to work in my town. Yeah. >> Never going to work in my town. Yeah. >> Yeah. It's you know it's the economy. >> Yeah. It's you know it's the economy. >> Yeah. It's you know it's the economy. It's uh the it's the other political It's uh the it's the other political It's uh the it's the other political party. It's my my my stupid family. It's party. It's my my my stupid family. It's party. It's my my my stupid family. It's all this stuff outside of me. That's the all this stuff outside of me. That's the all this stuff outside of me. That's the source of my problems. It's all this source of my problems. It's all this source of my problems. It's all this stuff outside of me. An internal locus stuff outside of me. An internal locus stuff outside of me. An internal locus of control. That person believes that of control. That person believes that of control. That person believes that they can affect change. That they they can affect change. That they they can affect change. That they actually control their outcomes based on actually control their outcomes based on actually control their outcomes based on what they do. Now, here's the amazing what they do. Now, here's the amazing what they do. Now, here's the amazing part. We all kind of have seen people part. We all kind of have seen people part. We all kind of have seen people like this. What blows my mind, though, like this. What blows my mind, though, like this. What blows my mind, though, is that we know that people with an is that we know that people with an is that we know that people with an internal locus of control, the ones who internal locus of control, the ones who internal locus of control, the ones who believe that they control circumstances believe that they control circumstances believe that they control circumstances rather than circumstances control them, rather than circumstances control them, rather than circumstances control them, they have more success in every area of they have more success in every area of they have more success in every area of their life. They make more money. They their life. They make more money. They their life. They make more money. They have more relationships. They contribute have more relationships. They contribute have more relationships. They contribute more to their community. All the good more to their community. All the good more to their community. All the good things happen more to the people with an things happen more to the people with an things happen more to the people with an external locus of control even even when external locus of control even even when external locus of control even even when there are objective circumstances that there are objective circumstances that there are objective circumstances that make them less well off. make them less well off. make them less well off. >> Really? >> Really? >> Really? >> You get the point here? Even if your >> You get the point here? Even if your >> You get the point here? Even if your situation really really does suck, situation really really does suck, situation really really does suck, >> you're still better off thinking you >> you're still better off thinking you >> you're still better off thinking you have an internal locus of control. Even have an internal locus of control. Even have an internal locus of control. Even if you have every reason to complain.

if you have every reason to complain. if you have every reason to complain. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> That I'm I'm beat down. You know, it's >> That I'm I'm beat down. You know, it's >> That I'm I'm beat down. You know, it's interesting because one of the things interesting because one of the things interesting because one of the things I'm really working on near is I want to I'm really working on near is I want to I'm really working on near is I want to stay and be optimistic for decades stay and be optimistic for decades stay and be optimistic for decades ahead. And you know, life grinds at ahead. And you know, life grinds at ahead. And you know, life grinds at that. I want to believe I have agency that. I want to believe I have agency that. I want to believe I have agency and control. Like I I don't know. and control. Like I I don't know. and control. Like I I don't know. There's kind of a a a dumbness to it. There's kind of a a a dumbness to it. There's kind of a a a dumbness to it. You know what I mean? Like I'm going to You know what I mean? Like I'm going to You know what I mean? Like I'm going to defy the odds. Is that sort of that defy the odds. Is that sort of that defy the odds. Is that sort of that positive filter at work or is that del positive filter at work or is that del positive filter at work or is that del There's a thin line between that and There's a thin line between that and There's a thin line between that and delusion, right? Optimism and delusion. delusion, right? Optimism and delusion. delusion, right? Optimism and delusion. And and in fact blind positive thinking And and in fact blind positive thinking And and in fact blind positive thinking doesn't work. There's actually a a doesn't work. There's actually a a doesn't work. There's actually a a chapter in the book where I talk about chapter in the book where I talk about chapter in the book where I talk about why just blind positivity is not the why just blind positivity is not the why just blind positivity is not the right approach. Uh that that doesn't right approach. Uh that that doesn't right approach. Uh that that doesn't work either. Uh but what you're doing is work either. Uh but what you're doing is work either. Uh but what you're doing is actually a demonstration of a very actually a demonstration of a very actually a demonstration of a very powerful concept called a turnaround. powerful concept called a turnaround. powerful concept called a turnaround. >> A turnaround is when we take our belief >> A turnaround is when we take our belief >> A turnaround is when we take our belief uh getting rejected is bad. uh getting rejected is bad. uh getting rejected is bad. >> Okay. Yeah. That's your belief. a a a a >> Okay. Yeah. That's your belief. a a a a >> Okay. Yeah. That's your belief. a a a a rational person could very easily I rational person could very easily I rational person could very easily I think the default would be and probably think the default would be and probably think the default would be and probably your your knee-jerk reaction mine your your knee-jerk reaction mine your your knee-jerk reaction mine certainly would be h that sucks that's certainly would be h that sucks that's certainly would be h that sucks that's that's bad news what a turnaround allows that's bad news what a turnaround allows that's bad news what a turnaround allows us to do is to take that exact same us to do is to take that exact same us to do is to take that exact same belief and turn it around and ask belief and turn it around and ask belief and turn it around and ask ourselves could the exact opposite be ourselves could the exact opposite be ourselves could the exact opposite be true is there any chance even a 1% true is there any chance even a 1% true is there any chance even a 1% chance that getting turned around that chance that getting turned around that chance that getting turned around that getting rejected is a bad thing that getting rejected is a bad thing that getting rejected is a bad thing that it's not a bad thing Right? Could the it's not a bad thing Right? Could the it's not a bad thing Right? Could the opposite be true? And that's what you opposite be true? And that's what you opposite be true? And that's what you did naturally, which is brilliant. It's did naturally, which is brilliant. It's did naturally, which is brilliant. It's an amazing technique. I I you know, I I

an amazing technique. I I you know, I I an amazing technique. I I you know, I I used to have all kinds of interpersonal used to have all kinds of interpersonal used to have all kinds of interpersonal problems with my family and this and problems with my family and this and problems with my family and this and that and the other. And then I adopted that and the other. And then I adopted that and the other. And then I adopted this technique that I describe about the this technique that I describe about the this technique that I describe about the turnaround. It is a life-changing turnaround. It is a life-changing turnaround. It is a life-changing practice. It's not comfortable. practice. It's not comfortable. practice. It's not comfortable. Sometimes it's very difficult to do, but Sometimes it's very difficult to do, but Sometimes it's very difficult to do, but doing this practice of a turnaround uh doing this practice of a turnaround uh doing this practice of a turnaround uh allows you to collect a what's called a allows you to collect a what's called a allows you to collect a what's called a portfolio of perspectives. The amazing portfolio of perspectives. The amazing portfolio of perspectives. The amazing thing is it doesn't necessarily have to thing is it doesn't necessarily have to thing is it doesn't necessarily have to be true. Okay? You don't need to be true. Okay? You don't need to be true. Okay? You don't need to necessarily do a turnaround in order to necessarily do a turnaround in order to necessarily do a turnaround in order to find the true answer because what what find the true answer because what what find the true answer because what what is the truth? It's you know is it good? is the truth? It's you know is it good? is the truth? It's you know is it good? Is it bad? This is not fact. It's Is it bad? This is not fact. It's Is it bad? This is not fact. It's belief. Right? So it's in between. So belief. Right? So it's in between. So belief. Right? So it's in between. So when you have that portfolio of when you have that portfolio of when you have that portfolio of perspectives, you don't necessarily have perspectives, you don't necessarily have perspectives, you don't necessarily have to choose the one that is most true. You to choose the one that is most true. You to choose the one that is most true. You have to choose the one that is most have to choose the one that is most have to choose the one that is most useful to you. Even if it is true that useful to you. Even if it is true that useful to you. Even if it is true that it's bad that you get rejected, does it's bad that you get rejected, does it's bad that you get rejected, does that serve you? Does that help you? Does that serve you? Does that help you? Does that serve you? Does that help you? Does that motivate you? No. No. And no. A that motivate you? No. No. And no. A that motivate you? No. No. And no. A much healthier belief that you can adopt much healthier belief that you can adopt much healthier belief that you can adopt a much better tool that can that improve a much better tool that can that improve a much better tool that can that improve your life is actually it's wonderful to your life is actually it's wonderful to your life is actually it's wonderful to get rejected by your publisher because get rejected by your publisher because get rejected by your publisher because now you get degrees of freedom. You get now you get degrees of freedom. You get now you get degrees of freedom. You get to learn more. You get to prove them to learn more. You get to prove them to learn more. You get to prove them wrong. You get to do all these other wrong. You get to do all these other wrong. You get to do all these other things that you couldn't do before. So things that you couldn't do before. So things that you couldn't do before. So it's it's not self-d delusion. It's it's it's not self-d delusion. It's it's it's not self-d delusion. It's picking the tool that works best for the picking the tool that works best for the picking the tool that works best for the job.

job. job. >> We got two kinds of listeners right now. >> We got two kinds of listeners right now. >> We got two kinds of listeners right now. Some people are like, "Yeah, I'm that Some people are like, "Yeah, I'm that Some people are like, "Yeah, I'm that optimistic framer. That's what I see." optimistic framer. That's what I see." optimistic framer. That's what I see." Other people are kind of like, "No." Um, Other people are kind of like, "No." Um, Other people are kind of like, "No." Um, I always see what's working against me. I always see what's working against me. I always see what's working against me. I have a lot of wo is me days. It just I have a lot of wo is me days. It just I have a lot of wo is me days. It just doesn't work out. Um, you know, can you doesn't work out. Um, you know, can you doesn't work out. Um, you know, can you can a leopard change his or her spots? can a leopard change his or her spots? can a leopard change his or her spots? We definitely can change, but you're not We definitely can change, but you're not We definitely can change, but you're not going to change because uh you have to. going to change because uh you have to. going to change because uh you have to. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> Okay. Uh there's that proverb that uh >> Okay. Uh there's that proverb that uh >> Okay. Uh there's that proverb that uh when the student is ready, the teacher when the student is ready, the teacher when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. So this you know if your will appear. So this you know if your will appear. So this you know if your life is good, if you're happy, if you're life is good, if you're happy, if you're life is good, if you're happy, if you're if if you're if you're contributing the if if you're if you're contributing the if if you're if you're contributing the way you want to contribute to the world, way you want to contribute to the world, way you want to contribute to the world, if your uh faith is strong, if you if if your uh faith is strong, if you if if your uh faith is strong, if you if you feel like you're living a good life, you feel like you're living a good life, you feel like you're living a good life, do whatever you're doing. [laughter] do whatever you're doing. [laughter] do whatever you're doing. [laughter] But if you're like me, uh, a few years But if you're like me, uh, a few years But if you're like me, uh, a few years ago where I knew I was capable of more, ago where I knew I was capable of more, ago where I knew I was capable of more, that I I felt like I was missing that I I felt like I was missing that I I felt like I was missing something, that, uh, there something something, that, uh, there something something, that, uh, there something wasn't clicking, uh, that I wasn't wasn't clicking, uh, that I wasn't wasn't clicking, uh, that I wasn't living up to my full potential, then living up to my full potential, then living up to my full potential, then maybe there's another way. And so that maybe there's another way. And so that maybe there's another way. And so that that's I think the question to ask is is that's I think the question to ask is is that's I think the question to ask is is um, are my beliefs serving me or are um, are my beliefs serving me or are um, are my beliefs serving me or are they just things that I've adopted from they just things that I've adopted from they just things that I've adopted from other people? Right? Because so much of other people? Right? Because so much of other people? Right? Because so much of what we believe uh and again I'm not what we believe uh and again I'm not what we believe uh and again I'm not talking about faith, I'm not talking talking about faith, I'm not talking talking about faith, I'm not talking about fact. Talking about these beliefs, about fact. Talking about these beliefs, about fact. Talking about these beliefs, these these strongly held convictions these these strongly held convictions these these strongly held convictions open to new evidence. So much of these open to new evidence. So much of these open to new evidence. So much of these self-limiting beliefs we just adopt from self-limiting beliefs we just adopt from self-limiting beliefs we just adopt from other people. Uh that uh for example, other people. Uh that uh for example, other people. Uh that uh for example, I'm no good with money. Uh I'm not a

I'm no good with money. Uh I'm not a I'm no good with money. Uh I'm not a math person. Uh I have a short attention math person. Uh I have a short attention math person. Uh I have a short attention span. Uh that's just the way I am. You span. Uh that's just the way I am. You span. Uh that's just the way I am. You know, we hear these self-limiting know, we hear these self-limiting know, we hear these self-limiting beliefs all the time and we adopt them beliefs all the time and we adopt them beliefs all the time and we adopt them because at some point in our life, they because at some point in our life, they because at some point in our life, they probably served us in one way or another probably served us in one way or another probably served us in one way or another or what we hear a lot of that that we or what we hear a lot of that that we or what we hear a lot of that that we feel like if we tempt fate thinking we feel like if we tempt fate thinking we feel like if we tempt fate thinking we want more or of possibly even thinking want more or of possibly even thinking want more or of possibly even thinking of a good thing happening, well then of a good thing happening, well then of a good thing happening, well then maybe it won't happen, right? We're maybe it won't happen, right? We're maybe it won't happen, right? We're trying to protect against some evil eye trying to protect against some evil eye trying to protect against some evil eye or something. And that can can actually or something. And that can can actually or something. And that can can actually be disrupt disruptive that we can be disrupt disruptive that we can be disrupt disruptive that we can actually hurt our possibilities of actually hurt our possibilities of actually hurt our possibilities of seeing those opportunities of living seeing those opportunities of living seeing those opportunities of living that better life because we're just that better life because we're just that better life because we're just tunnelvisioned into the way we've always tunnelvisioned into the way we've always tunnelvisioned into the way we've always done things. So we can absolutely done things. So we can absolutely done things. So we can absolutely change. The first step of course change. The first step of course change. The first step of course >> is awareness about that. Yeah. The first >> is awareness about that. Yeah. The first >> is awareness about that. Yeah. The first step is awareness that uh uh you know step is awareness that uh uh you know step is awareness that uh uh you know taking a step back. I think I think the taking a step back. I think I think the taking a step back. I think I think the best place to start at least for me best place to start at least for me best place to start at least for me >> was with my relationships. Uh I'll tell >> was with my relationships. Uh I'll tell >> was with my relationships. Uh I'll tell you a a quick story um of of how this you a a quick story um of of how this you a a quick story um of of how this came about. So, uh, a few years ago came about. So, uh, a few years ago came about. So, uh, a few years ago during my my my mom had her 74th during my my my mom had her 74th during my my my mom had her 74th birthday and I was living in Singapore, birthday and I was living in Singapore, birthday and I was living in Singapore, she was in Florida and, uh, I wanted for she was in Florida and, uh, I wanted for she was in Florida and, uh, I wanted for her 74th birthday to send her flowers.

her 74th birthday to send her flowers. her 74th birthday to send her flowers. And, uh, I I started researching, you And, uh, I I started researching, you And, uh, I I started researching, you know, how do I get these flowers to to know, how do I get these flowers to to know, how do I get these flowers to to Florida? And, you know, how do I make Florida? And, you know, how do I make Florida? And, you know, how do I make sure that I find a good florist who sure that I find a good florist who sure that I find a good florist who doesn't rip me off? And, uh, you know, I doesn't rip me off? And, uh, you know, I doesn't rip me off? And, uh, you know, I need same day delivery so that they're need same day delivery so that they're need same day delivery so that they're not in the van for too long and get not in the van for too long and get not in the van for too long and get burned. And like, I you know, I did all burned. And like, I you know, I did all burned. And like, I you know, I did all this research. I stayed up till 1:00 in this research. I stayed up till 1:00 in this research. I stayed up till 1:00 in the morning. I paid extra to make sure the morning. I paid extra to make sure the morning. I paid extra to make sure they were same day delivered. It It took they were same day delivered. It It took they were same day delivered. It It took a long time. I called her up the next a long time. I called her up the next a long time. I called her up the next day for her birthday. She thanked me for day for her birthday. She thanked me for day for her birthday. She thanked me for the flowers and then she said, "Uh, the flowers and then she said, "Uh, the flowers and then she said, "Uh, listen, those flowers you sent, they're listen, those flowers you sent, they're listen, those flowers you sent, they're already half dead. Don't buy from that already half dead. Don't buy from that already half dead. Don't buy from that florist again." florist again." florist again." >> And so, uh, yeah. Okay. So, you're on my >> And so, uh, yeah. Okay. So, you're on my >> And so, uh, yeah. Okay. So, you're on my side on this one, right? So, I get it. I side on this one, right? So, I get it. I side on this one, right? So, I get it. I get it. I immediately, my initial get it. I immediately, my initial get it. I immediately, my initial reaction immediately, you know, I here I reaction immediately, you know, I here I reaction immediately, you know, I here I am 47. I've written three books. Uh, I, am 47. I've written three books. Uh, I, am 47. I've written three books. Uh, I, you know, I, I've been working on myself you know, I, I've been working on myself you know, I, I've been working on myself for all these years, and for all these years, and for all these years, and >> I immediately went into 15-year-old >> I immediately went into 15-year-old >> I immediately went into 15-year-old mode, right? I became that petulent mode, right? I became that petulent mode, right? I became that petulent teenager, teenager, teenager, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Yeah. And here's what I said. I said, >> Yeah. And here's what I said. I said, >> Yeah. And here's what I said. I said, "Well, in that case, remind me to never "Well, in that case, remind me to never "Well, in that case, remind me to never buy you flowers again." Right. And that buy you flowers again." Right. And that buy you flowers again." Right. And that went over about as well as you'd expect.

went over about as well as you'd expect. went over about as well as you'd expect. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] A Now, after the call, my wife was with A Now, after the call, my wife was with A Now, after the call, my wife was with me. After the call, my my wife looked at me. After the call, my my wife looked at me. After the call, my my wife looked at me. She said, "Would you like to do a me. She said, "Would you like to do a me. She said, "Would you like to do a turnaround on this?" And so, we talked turnaround on this?" And so, we talked turnaround on this?" And so, we talked briefly about what turnarounds are. briefly about what turnarounds are. briefly about what turnarounds are. Here's how I did this turnaround. So, Here's how I did this turnaround. So, Here's how I did this turnaround. So, the first turnaround is a turnaround of the first turnaround is a turnaround of the first turnaround is a turnaround of my belief. So, I literally wrote I took my belief. So, I literally wrote I took my belief. So, I literally wrote I took out a piece of paper and I wrote down out a piece of paper and I wrote down out a piece of paper and I wrote down the belief. the belief. the belief. >> My mother is too judgmental and hard to >> My mother is too judgmental and hard to >> My mother is too judgmental and hard to please, please, please, >> Carrie. Right? That's that's a fact, >> Carrie. Right? That's that's a fact, >> Carrie. Right? That's that's a fact, right? You heard what just happened. right? You heard what just happened. right? You heard what just happened. That's a fact. My mom is too judgmental That's a fact. My mom is too judgmental That's a fact. My mom is too judgmental and hard to please. I that how could and hard to please. I that how could and hard to please. I that how could that not be true? Okay. Well, what a that not be true? Okay. Well, what a that not be true? Okay. Well, what a turnaround forces us to do is to take turnaround forces us to do is to take turnaround forces us to do is to take the opposite view. Could that is there the opposite view. Could that is there the opposite view. Could that is there any chance that the opposite could be any chance that the opposite could be any chance that the opposite could be true? My mom is not too judgmental and true? My mom is not too judgmental and true? My mom is not too judgmental and hard to please. Okay. Doesn't matter if hard to please. Okay. Doesn't matter if hard to please. Okay. Doesn't matter if it's true. Doesn't matter if it's true. it's true. Doesn't matter if it's true. it's true. Doesn't matter if it's true. It's a tool, not a truth. Could that be It's a tool, not a truth. Could that be It's a tool, not a truth. Could that be true? true? true? Okay, fine. Maybe it's true. Maybe she Okay, fine. Maybe it's true. Maybe she Okay, fine. Maybe it's true. Maybe she wasn't too judgmental and hard to wasn't too judgmental and hard to wasn't too judgmental and hard to believe. Maybe she was just stating a believe. Maybe she was just stating a believe. Maybe she was just stating a fact. She did thank me for the flowers, fact. She did thank me for the flowers, fact. She did thank me for the flowers, right? And so maybe she was just trying right? And so maybe she was just trying right? And so maybe she was just trying to protect me from not getting ripped to protect me from not getting ripped to protect me from not getting ripped off. So, okay, fine. That's one off. So, okay, fine. That's one off. So, okay, fine. That's one turnaround. Another turnaround, and this turnaround. Another turnaround, and this turnaround. Another turnaround, and this is the one that really hit, is the one that really hit, is the one that really hit, is I am too judgmental and hard to is I am too judgmental and hard to is I am too judgmental and hard to please.

please. please. Whoa, could that be true? Wait a minute. Whoa, could that be true? Wait a minute. Whoa, could that be true? Wait a minute. I am too judgmental and hard to please. I am too judgmental and hard to please. I am too judgmental and hard to please. Well, I did kind of expect her to recite Well, I did kind of expect her to recite Well, I did kind of expect her to recite the exact script that I had in my head the exact script that I had in my head the exact script that I had in my head about how I wanted to be thanked for about how I wanted to be thanked for about how I wanted to be thanked for those flowers. And when she didn't those flowers. And when she didn't those flowers. And when she didn't comply with my script comply with my script comply with my script >> then and and and did something >> then and and and did something >> then and and and did something different, well then I lost it. So who different, well then I lost it. So who different, well then I lost it. So who was being judgmental and hard to please was being judgmental and hard to please was being judgmental and hard to please here? I was. here? I was. here? I was. So now this tremendous burden was lifted So now this tremendous burden was lifted So now this tremendous burden was lifted off my shoulders because my prior belief off my shoulders because my prior belief off my shoulders because my prior belief required her to change so I could be required her to change so I could be required her to change so I could be happy. It only gave me one choice. She's happy. It only gave me one choice. She's happy. It only gave me one choice. She's the guilty party. as opposed to now I the guilty party. as opposed to now I the guilty party. as opposed to now I have a portfolio of perspectives. I can have a portfolio of perspectives. I can have a portfolio of perspectives. I can choose the belief that serves me best. choose the belief that serves me best. choose the belief that serves me best. And you know what? It gave me a lot more And you know what? It gave me a lot more And you know what? It gave me a lot more degrees of freedom to ask myself, maybe degrees of freedom to ask myself, maybe degrees of freedom to ask myself, maybe I was being the problem here. Maybe I I was being the problem here. Maybe I I was being the problem here. Maybe I was demanding too much. Maybe I was the was demanding too much. Maybe I was the was demanding too much. Maybe I was the one that was hard to please. And whether one that was hard to please. And whether one that was hard to please. And whether that's true or not doesn't matter. Maybe that's true or not doesn't matter. Maybe that's true or not doesn't matter. Maybe you're listening to me and say, "No, no, you're listening to me and say, "No, no, you're listening to me and say, "No, no, no. Your mom is still hard to please and no. Your mom is still hard to please and no. Your mom is still hard to please and she judge." That that's not what we're she judge." That that's not what we're she judge." That that's not what we're talking about. It's not about fact.

talking about. It's not about fact. talking about. It's not about fact. >> It's about belief. And the belief that >> It's about belief. And the belief that >> It's about belief. And the belief that served me best was an alternative from served me best was an alternative from served me best was an alternative from the one I originally had. And so I could the one I originally had. And so I could the one I originally had. And so I could pick that perspective. So that I think pick that perspective. So that I think pick that perspective. So that I think is a is a wonderful place to start. You is a is a wonderful place to start. You is a is a wonderful place to start. You know, if you can if you can do that with know, if you can if you can do that with know, if you can if you can do that with with with other people, I I'll tell you with with other people, I I'll tell you with with other people, I I'll tell you one more thought that I think is very one more thought that I think is very one more thought that I think is very useful in terms of where is a good place useful in terms of where is a good place useful in terms of where is a good place to start. to start. to start. I think my mind really started to change I think my mind really started to change I think my mind really started to change when I asked myself um how do you when I asked myself um how do you when I asked myself um how do you measure love? How do you measure love? measure love? How do you measure love? measure love? How do you measure love? Like when you say to somebody, I love Like when you say to somebody, I love Like when you say to somebody, I love you so much. What what does that mean? you so much. What what does that mean? you so much. What what does that mean? Uh my initial reaction was kind of Uh my initial reaction was kind of Uh my initial reaction was kind of hydonic that like, oh, you make me feel hydonic that like, oh, you make me feel hydonic that like, oh, you make me feel good, right? You do things for me, good, right? You do things for me, good, right? You do things for me, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> But that that can't be it, right? That >> But that that can't be it, right? That >> But that that can't be it, right? That can't be why we love people a lot can't be why we love people a lot can't be why we love people a lot because, you know, I remember when my because, you know, I remember when my because, you know, I remember when my daughter was born, daughter was born, daughter was born, >> uh, you know, babies don't do a lot for >> uh, you know, babies don't do a lot for >> uh, you know, babies don't do a lot for you. They make messes. They throw up. you. They make messes. They throw up. you. They make messes. They throw up. They cry all the time. They're not doing They cry all the time. They're not doing They cry all the time. They're not doing anything for you. And yet, when I held anything for you. And yet, when I held anything for you. And yet, when I held my daughter for the first time, I loved my daughter for the first time, I loved my daughter for the first time, I loved her more than anything in the world her more than anything in the world her more than anything in the world immediately. Uh, so why why was that? immediately. Uh, so why why was that? immediately. Uh, so why why was that? Well, I think we measure love by the Well, I think we measure love by the Well, I think we measure love by the benefit of the doubt. Love is measured benefit of the doubt. Love is measured benefit of the doubt. Love is measured by the benefit of the doubt. How much by the benefit of the doubt. How much by the benefit of the doubt. How much you love somebody has to do with how you love somebody has to do with how you love somebody has to do with how much benefit the doubt you give them.

much benefit the doubt you give them. much benefit the doubt you give them. Because, you know, in in life, we tend Because, you know, in in life, we tend Because, you know, in in life, we tend to judge other people that we don't love to judge other people that we don't love to judge other people that we don't love very harshly. You know, that that person very harshly. You know, that that person very harshly. You know, that that person cuts you on off in traffic. Ah, what a cuts you on off in traffic. Ah, what a cuts you on off in traffic. Ah, what a jerk. They're doing that to annoy me. jerk. They're doing that to annoy me. jerk. They're doing that to annoy me. Uh, you know, that that waitress or Uh, you know, that that waitress or Uh, you know, that that waitress or waiter is being short with you. Ah, what waiter is being short with you. Ah, what waiter is being short with you. Ah, what a lazy person. They have such a bad work a lazy person. They have such a bad work a lazy person. They have such a bad work ethic. as opposed to, well, maybe that ethic. as opposed to, well, maybe that ethic. as opposed to, well, maybe that driver was driving to the hospital cuz driver was driving to the hospital cuz driver was driving to the hospital cuz they had a sick family member or maybe they had a sick family member or maybe they had a sick family member or maybe that uh waiter was having a double shift that uh waiter was having a double shift that uh waiter was having a double shift and they've been on their feet all day. and they've been on their feet all day. and they've been on their feet all day. So, with other people, we tend to judge So, with other people, we tend to judge So, with other people, we tend to judge them harshly harshly. But with them harshly harshly. But with them harshly harshly. But with ourselves, ourselves, ourselves, well, you know, we explain why we messed well, you know, we explain why we messed well, you know, we explain why we messed up. If if if people just knew the up. If if if people just knew the up. If if if people just knew the circumstances that I was operating circumstances that I was operating circumstances that I was operating under, then they would understand, under, then they would understand, under, then they would understand, right? So, we have to explain ourselves. right? So, we have to explain ourselves. right? So, we have to explain ourselves. So, we give ourselves a lot of benefit So, we give ourselves a lot of benefit So, we give ourselves a lot of benefit of the doubt. We give the people we love of the doubt. We give the people we love of the doubt. We give the people we love a benefit of the doubt. We don't think a benefit of the doubt. We don't think a benefit of the doubt. We don't think that babies cry to annoy us. They're that babies cry to annoy us. They're that babies cry to annoy us. They're babies. It's the best tools they have. babies. It's the best tools they have. babies. It's the best tools they have. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well, we're all babies. We're just grown >> Well, we're all babies. We're just grown >> Well, we're all babies. We're just grown up babies. up babies. up babies. >> So, as we get older, we give people less >> So, as we get older, we give people less >> So, as we get older, we give people less and less benefit of the doubt. We love and less benefit of the doubt. We love and less benefit of the doubt. We love them less and less. And so, I think that them less and less. And so, I think that them less and less. And so, I think that what's really helped me is understanding what's really helped me is understanding what's really helped me is understanding that the way my mom behaved, she, you that the way my mom behaved, she, you that the way my mom behaved, she, you know, I can't read her mind. I don't know, I can't read her mind. I don't know, I can't read her mind. I don't know what her intent is. I don't know know what her intent is. I don't know know what her intent is. I don't know what was happening. I had beliefs. I had what was happening. I had beliefs. I had what was happening. I had beliefs. I had filters, right? I had perceptual lenses filters, right? I had perceptual lenses filters, right? I had perceptual lenses that told me that she was being that told me that she was being that told me that she was being judgmental and hard to please. But in judgmental and hard to please. But in judgmental and hard to please. But in reality, she was just operating with the reality, she was just operating with the reality, she was just operating with the best tools she had, just like a baby, best tools she had, just like a baby, best tools she had, just like a baby, right? They cry because that's that's right? They cry because that's that's right? They cry because that's that's what they do. That's all they have to what they do. That's all they have to what they do. That's all they have to offer. That's all they that's the offer. That's all they that's the offer. That's all they that's the beliefs that they're operating under.

beliefs that they're operating under. beliefs that they're operating under. And that's the same with everybody in And that's the same with everybody in And that's the same with everybody in our lives. So, by testing that in that our lives. So, by testing that in that our lives. So, by testing that in that one narrow dom domain of relationships, one narrow dom domain of relationships, one narrow dom domain of relationships, right, with your family, with your right, with your family, with your right, with your family, with your co-workers, with your community, with co-workers, with your community, with co-workers, with your community, with your church members, and then extending your church members, and then extending your church members, and then extending that grace and that ability to shift our that grace and that ability to shift our that grace and that ability to shift our perspective, to shift our beliefs in perspective, to shift our beliefs in perspective, to shift our beliefs in other areas of life. There's no area of other areas of life. There's no area of other areas of life. There's no area of your life that this doesn't touch and your life that this doesn't touch and your life that this doesn't touch and improve. improve. improve. >> Are there other keys to reformulating >> Are there other keys to reformulating >> Are there other keys to reformulating your beliefs? your beliefs? your beliefs? >> Yeah. I think so. I think uh uh so step >> Yeah. I think so. I think uh uh so step >> Yeah. I think so. I think uh uh so step number one is realizing that your number one is realizing that your number one is realizing that your beliefs aren't permanent, that they're beliefs aren't permanent, that they're beliefs aren't permanent, that they're tools, not truths. I think realizing uh tools, not truths. I think realizing uh tools, not truths. I think realizing uh that you can turn around these uh these that you can turn around these uh these that you can turn around these uh these beliefs and then practicing it every beliefs and then practicing it every beliefs and then practicing it every single day. [laughter] single day. [laughter] single day. [laughter] uh and and particularly uh and and particularly uh and and particularly relishing relishing relishing the turnaround. I think for a long time the turnaround. I think for a long time the turnaround. I think for a long time uh I was indoctrinated to think that uh I was indoctrinated to think that uh I was indoctrinated to think that changing your mind is bad. changing your mind is bad. changing your mind is bad. >> That if you're a flip-flopper, that's >> That if you're a flip-flopper, that's >> That if you're a flip-flopper, that's like a character flaw that you you don't like a character flaw that you you don't like a character flaw that you you don't want to change your mind. That means want to change your mind. That means want to change your mind. That means you're inconsistent, right? We don't you're inconsistent, right? We don't you're inconsistent, right? We don't trust people who change their mind trust people who change their mind trust people who change their mind around here. Changing your mind is the around here. Changing your mind is the around here. Changing your mind is the best thing ever because that means best thing ever because that means best thing ever because that means you're growing. That means you're you're you're growing. That means you're you're you're growing. That means you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're realizing uh a a higher state, right?

realizing uh a a higher state, right? realizing uh a a higher state, right? You're you're you're you're getting a You're you're you're you're getting a You're you're you're you're getting a clearer picture of reality of the world clearer picture of reality of the world clearer picture of reality of the world around you. And so I think we shouldn't around you. And so I think we shouldn't around you. And so I think we shouldn't be so down on the ability to change our be so down on the ability to change our be so down on the ability to change our minds. I think that's great. Starting minds. I think that's great. Starting minds. I think that's great. Starting with these low stakes things like these with these low stakes things like these with these low stakes things like these beliefs, you know, about around how to beliefs, you know, about around how to beliefs, you know, about around how to diet, uh you know, what we think about diet, uh you know, what we think about diet, uh you know, what we think about our neighbors, what we think about our our neighbors, what we think about our our neighbors, what we think about our family members. These slow and low family members. These slow and low family members. These slow and low stakes ways of the joy. I think very few stakes ways of the joy. I think very few stakes ways of the joy. I think very few people have experienced the joy, the people have experienced the joy, the people have experienced the joy, the bliss of wow, I was totally wrong about bliss of wow, I was totally wrong about bliss of wow, I was totally wrong about that and now I learn from that that and now I learn from that that and now I learn from that experience. God, that's such a gift. experience. God, that's such a gift. experience. God, that's such a gift. Yeah. When you think about your own Yeah. When you think about your own Yeah. When you think about your own attitude, that's one thing, but a lot of attitude, that's one thing, but a lot of attitude, that's one thing, but a lot of us lead teams. If you sense us lead teams. If you sense us lead teams. If you sense self-limiting beliefs on your team, what self-limiting beliefs on your team, what self-limiting beliefs on your team, what is the key to taking that out to the is the key to taking that out to the is the key to taking that out to the people you work with or lead? M so if people you work with or lead? M so if people you work with or lead? M so if you talk to business leaders and I know you talk to business leaders and I know you talk to business leaders and I know know you've talked to many many many I know you've talked to many many many I know you've talked to many many many I bet if you ask them what is the key to bet if you ask them what is the key to bet if you ask them what is the key to your success uh one two or three that your success uh one two or three that your success uh one two or three that they're going to say probably number one they're going to say probably number one they're going to say probably number one is culture am I wrong is culture am I wrong is culture am I wrong >> everybody says culture >> everybody says culture >> everybody says culture >> culture culture culture culture >> culture culture culture culture >> culture culture culture culture >> yeah it's become a cliche right >> yeah it's become a cliche right >> yeah it's become a cliche right >> but that starts with you right >> but that starts with you right >> but that starts with you right >> it I think it starts with your beliefs >> it I think it starts with your beliefs >> it I think it starts with your beliefs what is culture culture is just a set of what is culture culture is just a set of what is culture culture is just a set of beliefs and what's interesting is, you beliefs and what's interesting is, you beliefs and what's interesting is, you know, we think that there are these know, we think that there are these know, we think that there are these universal beliefs that work across every universal beliefs that work across every universal beliefs that work across every company that, you know, we we they tend company that, you know, we we they tend company that, you know, we we they tend to be these touchyfey beliefs like, oh, to be these touchyfey beliefs like, oh, to be these touchyfey beliefs like, oh, we should treat everyone with respect we should treat everyone with respect we should treat everyone with respect and the customer is number one and we and the customer is number one and we and the customer is number one and we should all, you know, be able to say should all, you know, be able to say should all, you know, be able to say what we feel and be respected. And that

what we feel and be respected. And that what we feel and be respected. And that sounds nice. We all want to work in that sounds nice. We all want to work in that sounds nice. We all want to work in that type of work environment. But let me type of work environment. But let me type of work environment. But let me tell you, there are many companies that tell you, there are many companies that tell you, there are many companies that don't have those beliefs. They don't don't have those beliefs. They don't don't have those beliefs. They don't have those values. They don't have that have those values. They don't have that have those values. They don't have that company culture and they still succeed. company culture and they still succeed. company culture and they still succeed. They still succeed. these things that we They still succeed. these things that we They still succeed. these things that we think are universal. Of course, think are universal. Of course, think are universal. Of course, everybody needs to be respected and everybody needs to be respected and everybody needs to be respected and customer. There's lots of companies that customer. There's lots of companies that customer. There's lots of companies that do great do great do great >> that don't have those values, they have >> that don't have those values, they have >> that don't have those values, they have other values, right? So, what's other values, right? So, what's other values, right? So, what's interesting about this is that again, interesting about this is that again, interesting about this is that again, beliefs are tools, not true. So, the beliefs are tools, not true. So, the beliefs are tools, not true. So, the same belief at one company in a same belief at one company in a same belief at one company in a different industry will not work. So, different industry will not work. So, different industry will not work. So, it's it's really about fundamentally it's it's really about fundamentally it's it's really about fundamentally evaluating which of these beliefs are evaluating which of these beliefs are evaluating which of these beliefs are serving me versus which are hurting me serving me versus which are hurting me serving me versus which are hurting me and and tailoring those beliefs to the and and tailoring those beliefs to the and and tailoring those beliefs to the the industry, the team, the whatever the industry, the team, the whatever the industry, the team, the whatever that you're working in, uh using that that you're working in, uh using that that you're working in, uh using that exact same process. But once you have exact same process. But once you have exact same process. But once you have that that those beliefs, cementing them that that those beliefs, cementing them that that those beliefs, cementing them into a culture, right? re recognizing into a culture, right? re recognizing into a culture, right? re recognizing what type of beliefs here work best, what type of beliefs here work best, what type of beliefs here work best, what what kind of beliefs serve us, and what what kind of beliefs serve us, and what what kind of beliefs serve us, and blindly copying them because you read it blindly copying them because you read it blindly copying them because you read it in a business book or because some some in a business book or because some some in a business book or because some some business leader said that that's what business leader said that that's what business leader said that that's what they did at that company is is not they did at that company is is not they did at that company is is not necessarily the the right way to go.

necessarily the the right way to go. necessarily the the right way to go. What you want to do is to figure out What you want to do is to figure out What you want to do is to figure out what beliefs, what values, what culture what beliefs, what values, what culture what beliefs, what values, what culture you're going to adopt at your in your you're going to adopt at your in your you're going to adopt at your in your situation among your team. situation among your team. situation among your team. >> If you end up with somebody who just >> If you end up with somebody who just >> If you end up with somebody who just doesn't change their mindset, what do doesn't change their mindset, what do doesn't change their mindset, what do you do with them? Do you just say, you do with them? Do you just say, you do with them? Do you just say, "Well, that's just the limit." Do you "Well, that's just the limit." Do you "Well, that's just the limit." Do you let them go from your team? What uh let them go from your team? What uh let them go from your team? What uh because you can't control other people? because you can't control other people? because you can't control other people? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, what what what do you do if if you >> So, what what what do you do if if you >> So, what what what do you do if if you have that sort of, you know, Debbie have that sort of, you know, Debbie have that sort of, you know, Debbie Downer, so to speak Downer, so to speak Downer, so to speak >> on on your team? >> on on your team? >> on on your team? >> None of this says that you have to >> None of this says that you have to >> None of this says that you have to suffer, right? That you have like, you suffer, right? That you have like, you suffer, right? That you have like, you know, just because, you know, I change know, just because, you know, I change know, just because, you know, I change my mindset about and my beliefs around my mindset about and my beliefs around my mindset about and my beliefs around my mom, it doesn't mean that uh you my mom, it doesn't mean that uh you my mom, it doesn't mean that uh you know, if my mom is abusing me that I know, if my mom is abusing me that I know, if my mom is abusing me that I have to put up with it, that I have to have to put up with it, that I have to have to put up with it, that I have to be in that situation. So there's nothing be in that situation. So there's nothing be in that situation. So there's nothing that says like it's it's all always your that says like it's it's all always your that says like it's it's all always your fault and you have to suffer through fault and you have to suffer through fault and you have to suffer through that. No, if there's somebody who's a that. No, if there's somebody who's a that. No, if there's somebody who's a toxic person and is not serving you, toxic person and is not serving you, toxic person and is not serving you, that is is a good step uh to potentially that is is a good step uh to potentially that is is a good step uh to potentially part with that person. I would say part with that person. I would say part with that person. I would say though that that I don't think it's our though that that I don't think it's our though that that I don't think it's our job to try and uh change change people's job to try and uh change change people's job to try and uh change change people's beliefs. Uh I think that is something beliefs. Uh I think that is something beliefs. Uh I think that is something that um you know when the student is that um you know when the student is that um you know when the student is ready the teacher appears that when ready the teacher appears that when ready the teacher appears that when they're ready hopefully th this this they're ready hopefully th this this they're ready hopefully th this this book will help people uh evolve their book will help people uh evolve their book will help people uh evolve their beliefs as well but I don't necessarily beliefs as well but I don't necessarily beliefs as well but I don't necessarily think that's something that we should think that's something that we should think that's something that we should try and change with with people other try and change with with people other try and change with with people other than maybe saying hey here's a book I than maybe saying hey here's a book I than maybe saying hey here's a book I really like that you might enjoy as well really like that you might enjoy as well really like that you might enjoy as well other than that other than that other than that >> kind of like you set the bar everybody's >> kind of like you set the bar everybody's >> kind of like you set the bar everybody's invited see who comes to the party.

invited see who comes to the party. invited see who comes to the party. >> Exactly. Exactly. I think that's the >> Exactly. Exactly. I think that's the >> Exactly. Exactly. I think that's the right approach. right approach. right approach. >> Well the new book is called Beyond >> Well the new book is called Beyond >> Well the new book is called Beyond Belief. It's out now. Wherever you get Belief. It's out now. Wherever you get Belief. It's out now. Wherever you get books, uh, if people want to track with books, uh, if people want to track with books, uh, if people want to track with you online, you're a very interesting you online, you're a very interesting you online, you're a very interesting follow. Um, where can they find you? follow. Um, where can they find you? follow. Um, where can they find you? >> Absolutely. So, my blog is at >> Absolutely. So, my blog is at >> Absolutely. So, my blog is at nearandfar.com. near spelled like my nearandfar.com. near spelled like my nearandfar.com. near spelled like my first name, niranfar.com. first name, niranfar.com. first name, niranfar.com. There's also a free 120 page uh, belief There's also a free 120 page uh, belief There's also a free 120 page uh, belief transformation journal, a 30-day belief transformation journal, a 30-day belief transformation journal, a 30-day belief transformation journal. It takes you transformation journal. It takes you transformation journal. It takes you step by step and exactly how to to find step by step and exactly how to to find step by step and exactly how to to find these limiting beliefs and change them these limiting beliefs and change them these limiting beliefs and change them into liberating beliefs. That's into liberating beliefs. That's into liberating beliefs. That's completely free. uh at the at that uh completely free. uh at the at that uh completely free. uh at the at that uh blog address nearfar.com. blog address nearfar.com. blog address nearfar.com. >> Well, Near, I'm sure this won't be our >> Well, Near, I'm sure this won't be our >> Well, Near, I'm sure this won't be our last conversation, but thank you so last conversation, but thank you so last conversation, but thank you so much. It was good and challenging. I much. It was good and challenging. I much. It was good and challenging. I appreciate you. appreciate you. appreciate you. >> My pleasure. Thank you. >> My pleasure. Thank you. >> My pleasure. Thank you. >> Well, that's challenging, isn't it? And >> Well, that's challenging, isn't it? And >> Well, that's challenging, isn't it? And that's really interesting about prayer. that's really interesting about prayer. that's really interesting about prayer. Uh I also love having guests who are on Uh I also love having guests who are on Uh I also love having guests who are on a spiritual journey. So, uh this a spiritual journey. So, uh this a spiritual journey. So, uh this probably won't be the last time we have probably won't be the last time we have probably won't be the last time we have Near on. If you want more, you can get Near on. If you want more, you can get Near on. If you want more, you can get show notes. You can find everything we show notes. You can find everything we show notes. You can find everything we talked about, including links to his talked about, including links to his talked about, including links to his latest over in the art of leadership latest over in the art of leadership latest over in the art of leadership academy. Just go to the art of academy. Just go to the art of academy. Just go to the art of leadershipacademy.com.

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