The Procrastination Lie Leaders Keep Believing | Jon Acuff

They've studied that up and down, and They've studied that up and down, and it's just not true. Like, nobody nobody it's just not true. Like, nobody nobody it's just not true. Like, nobody nobody works best last second. So, if you're a works best last second. So, if you're a works best last second. So, if you're a pastor, the reality is if you gave pastor, the reality is if you gave pastor, the reality is if you gave yourself the breathing room, the time yourself the breathing room, the time yourself the breathing room, the time you look at it a third time, like 2 days you look at it a third time, like 2 days you look at it a third time, like 2 days later, it's going to be better. Welcome later, it's going to be better. Welcome later, it's going to be better. Welcome to the Carey Nieuwhof Leadership to the Carey Nieuwhof Leadership to the Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Podcast. I'm so glad you joined us today Podcast. I'm so glad you joined us today Podcast. I'm so glad you joined us today because if you have ever struggled with because if you have ever struggled with because if you have ever struggled with procrastination, which I have, uh procrastination, which I have, uh procrastination, which I have, uh particularly when I was younger, um particularly when I was younger, um particularly when I was younger, um today's going to be a great episode. Jon today's going to be a great episode. Jon today's going to be a great episode. Jon Acuff is in the house. It's something Acuff is in the house. It's something Acuff is in the house. It's something that's that's that's haunted him his whole life. And yet, he haunted him his whole life. And yet, he haunted him his whole life. And yet, he has become one of Inc.'s top 100 has become one of Inc.'s top 100 has become one of Inc.'s top 100 leadership speakers. He delivers leadership speakers. He delivers leadership speakers. He delivers keynotes regularly to companies like keynotes regularly to companies like keynotes regularly to companies like Lexus, Microsoft, Walmart, Range Rover, Lexus, Microsoft, Walmart, Range Rover, Lexus, Microsoft, Walmart, Range Rover, Comedy [music] Central. He's host of the Comedy [music] Central. He's host of the Comedy [music] Central. He's host of the popular podcast All It Takes Is a Goal, popular podcast All It Takes Is a Goal, popular podcast All It Takes Is a Goal, and one of the most driven, and one of the most driven, and one of the most driven, >> [music] >> [music] >> [music] >> disciplined leaders I know. Why? Cuz >> disciplined leaders I know. Why? Cuz >> disciplined leaders I know. Why? Cuz he's not disciplined. Okay, so Jon and I he's not disciplined. Okay, so Jon and I he's not disciplined. Okay, so Jon and I are also really good friends. We talk are also really good friends. We talk are also really good friends. We talk every month, and we take you behind the every month, and we take you behind the every month, and we take you behind the scenes to catch [music] up on some of scenes to catch [music] up on some of scenes to catch [music] up on some of the things that he's been changing in the things that he's been changing in the things that he's been changing in his leadership. So, if you follow Jon, his leadership. So, if you follow Jon, his leadership. So, if you follow Jon, or if he's new to you, think you're or if he's new to you, think you're or if he's new to you, think you're really going to enjoy this. Want to really going to enjoy this. Want to really going to enjoy this. Want to welcome all of you who are new welcome all of you who are new welcome all of you who are new listeners. Really glad that you're here listeners. Really glad that you're here listeners. Really glad that you're here and that you're joining us. And to and that you're joining us. And to and that you're joining us. And to long-time listeners, thank you. You make long-time listeners, thank you. You make long-time listeners, thank you. You make this podcast what it is. I'm going to be this podcast what it is. I'm going to be this podcast what it is. I'm going to be on the road a lot this spring. So, if on the road a lot this spring. So, if on the road a lot this spring. So, if you're in Silicon Valley, I'll be in you're in Silicon Valley, I'll be in you're in Silicon Valley, I'll be in California, in Dallas, in different California, in Dallas, in different California, in Dallas, in different cities. I'd love to see you. Just come cities. I'd love to see you. Just come cities. I'd love to see you. Just come up after I give a talk and say, "Hey, I up after I give a talk and say, "Hey, I up after I give a talk and say, "Hey, I listen to the podcast. I've been here listen to the podcast. I've been here listen to the podcast. I've been here since episode 1, or I just discovered since episode 1, or I just discovered since episode 1, or I just discovered it." Uh that's one of the highlights to it." Uh that's one of the highlights to it." Uh that's one of the highlights to me of being on the road. So, with all me of being on the road. So, with all me of being on the road. So, with all that said, let's get into my that said, let's get into my that said, let's get into my conversation today with Jon Acuff. Jon

conversation today with Jon Acuff. Jon conversation today with Jon Acuff. Jon is never boring to hang out. Welcome is never boring to hang out. Welcome is never boring to hang out. Welcome back. Yeah, thanks for having me again. back. Yeah, thanks for having me again. back. Yeah, thanks for having me again. It's fun to fun to see you again, It's fun to fun to see you again, It's fun to fun to see you again, whether it's virtually, in Franklin. Um whether it's virtually, in Franklin. Um whether it's virtually, in Franklin. Um I don't make it up to your neck of the I don't make it up to your neck of the I don't make it up to your neck of the woods that often cuz it's still winter. woods that often cuz it's still winter. woods that often cuz it's still winter. Um but yeah, for for me Um but yeah, for for me Um but yeah, for for me >> This is true whenever the episode airs. >> This is true whenever the episode airs. >> This is true whenever the episode airs. That's what people think about Canada. That's what people think about Canada. That's what people think about Canada. It's still winter, right? It's July, and It's still winter, right? It's July, and It's still winter, right? It's July, and >> you can say that. I can I can say that >> you can say that. I can I can say that >> you can say that. I can I can say that really like if unless I hit your one really like if unless I hit your one really like if unless I hit your one warm weekend when you're on the boat, warm weekend when you're on the boat, warm weekend when you're on the boat, this episode is is evergreen. this episode is is evergreen. this episode is is evergreen. Exactly. Exactly. [clears throat] Well, Exactly. Exactly. [clears throat] Well, Exactly. Exactly. [clears throat] Well, I do spend more time in Franklin than I do spend more time in Franklin than I do spend more time in Franklin than you spend near Toronto, so that's true. you spend near Toronto, so that's true. you spend near Toronto, so that's true. >> 100%. That is true. But man, I'll tell >> 100%. That is true. But man, I'll tell >> 100%. That is true. But man, I'll tell you one of the things I I love is you you one of the things I I love is you you one of the things I I love is you and I usually check in at least once a and I usually check in at least once a and I usually check in at least once a month. We're like month. We're like month. We're like just a phone call, a good old-fashioned just a phone call, a good old-fashioned just a phone call, a good old-fashioned analog phone call where we catch up on analog phone call where we catch up on analog phone call where we catch up on what's going on in each other's lives. what's going on in each other's lives. what's going on in each other's lives. And I can't believe the transformation And I can't believe the transformation And I can't believe the transformation you've made over the last year because you've made over the last year because you've made over the last year because for years you're like, yeah, I'm an for years you're like, yeah, I'm an for years you're like, yeah, I'm an author, I'm a speaker, this is what I'm author, I'm a speaker, this is what I'm author, I'm a speaker, this is what I'm doing. And then all of a sudden you're doing. And then all of a sudden you're doing. And then all of a sudden you're like, I'm going to build a team. I'm like, I'm going to build a team. I'm like, I'm going to build a team. I'm going to get like like a VP. And like going to get like like a VP. And like going to get like like a VP. And like Hey Cuff Ideas is now a company and Hey Cuff Ideas is now a company and Hey Cuff Ideas is now a company and everything like that. Talk to us about everything like that. Talk to us about everything like that. Talk to us about the pivot.

the pivot. the pivot. Yeah, so I mean it felt like the next Yeah, so I mean it felt like the next Yeah, so I mean it felt like the next evolution. evolution. evolution. I feel like to grow you have to keep I feel like to grow you have to keep I feel like to grow you have to keep doing things like that. The people I doing things like that. The people I doing things like that. The people I look forward to and and admire are look forward to and and admire are look forward to and and admire are constantly iterating. It's not that they constantly iterating. It's not that they constantly iterating. It's not that they figured out something when they were 40 figured out something when they were 40 figured out something when they were 40 and then they just photocopied that for and then they just photocopied that for and then they just photocopied that for the next 20 years. They were really the next 20 years. They were really the next 20 years. They were really deliberate about going, okay, we got to deliberate about going, okay, we got to deliberate about going, okay, we got to this level. In order to stay sharp, we this level. In order to stay sharp, we this level. In order to stay sharp, we need to climb to the next level. In need to climb to the next level. In need to climb to the next level. In order to stay sharp, we need to climb to order to stay sharp, we need to climb to order to stay sharp, we need to climb to the next level. So I think that great the next level. So I think that great the next level. So I think that great leaders are always kind of pursuing leaders are always kind of pursuing leaders are always kind of pursuing things that way. And so for me, I felt things that way. And so for me, I felt things that way. And so for me, I felt like I had really dialed in speaking. I like I had really dialed in speaking. I like I had really dialed in speaking. I had dialed in writing. I still love had dialed in writing. I still love had dialed in writing. I still love those. It's still the bulk of what I do, those. It's still the bulk of what I do, those. It's still the bulk of what I do, but I thought I can do this on a bigger but I thought I can do this on a bigger but I thought I can do this on a bigger level with even greater excellence if I level with even greater excellence if I level with even greater excellence if I actually focus on the business side of actually focus on the business side of actually focus on the business side of things. And say, you know, okay, what things. And say, you know, okay, what things. And say, you know, okay, what does it look like for me to not only, does it look like for me to not only, does it look like for me to not only, you know, be a speaker, but teach you know, be a speaker, but teach you know, be a speaker, but teach speaking or to have an amazing speaking or to have an amazing speaking or to have an amazing post-event follow-up sequence. Like post-event follow-up sequence. Like post-event follow-up sequence. Like there's all these Terry, there's all there's all these Terry, there's all there's all these Terry, there's all these things you learn as you start to these things you learn as you start to these things you learn as you start to grow it as a business that you go, oh, grow it as a business that you go, oh, grow it as a business that you go, oh, where was I getting by on talent and where was I getting by on talent and where was I getting by on talent and kind of personality that I need to kind of personality that I need to kind of personality that I need to systematize. And so I, you know, for systematize. And so I, you know, for systematize. And so I, you know, for some of your listeners, I'd say it's some of your listeners, I'd say it's some of your listeners, I'd say it's like the the pastor who's an amazing like the the pastor who's an amazing like the the pastor who's an amazing communicator that realizes they need communicator that realizes they need communicator that realizes they need some other tools in their toolkit. And I some other tools in their toolkit. And I some other tools in their toolkit. And I think a lot of people come to you for think a lot of people come to you for think a lot of people come to you for that exact thing where you you figure that exact thing where you you figure that exact thing where you you figure out you want to get to the next level.

out you want to get to the next level. out you want to get to the next level. So I, you know, I'm I'm kind of a like So I, you know, I'm I'm kind of a like So I, you know, I'm I'm kind of a like an active dog. Like if I'm left home for an active dog. Like if I'm left home for an active dog. Like if I'm left home for 10 hours without some stuff to do, I 10 hours without some stuff to do, I 10 hours without some stuff to do, I destroy the house and I end up on the destroy the house and I end up on the destroy the house and I end up on the top of the fridge. And so for me, every top of the fridge. And so for me, every top of the fridge. And so for me, every time I level up, I go, "What does it time I level up, I go, "What does it time I level up, I go, "What does it look like to steward these gifts even look like to steward these gifts even look like to steward these gifts even better?" Like I did this thing, now what better?" Like I did this thing, now what better?" Like I did this thing, now what do I do the next thing? And how do I do do I do the next thing? And how do I do do I do the next thing? And how do I do the next thing? And I think that keeps the next thing? And I think that keeps the next thing? And I think that keeps life really fun and keeps you really life really fun and keeps you really life really fun and keeps you really sharp. sharp. sharp. Well, it's a good It's a good Well, it's a good It's a good Well, it's a good It's a good observation and I'm not going to observation and I'm not going to observation and I'm not going to disagree with you, but like I remember disagree with you, but like I remember disagree with you, but like I remember you and I had multiple conversations you and I had multiple conversations you and I had multiple conversations where it's like you kind of have it where it's like you kind of have it where it's like you kind of have it locked in as a speaker and an author, locked in as a speaker and an author, locked in as a speaker and an author, right? Like Like there's very few people right? Like Like there's very few people right? Like Like there's very few people who are as quote successful as you are who are as quote successful as you are who are as quote successful as you are in the speaking world and your books in the speaking world and your books in the speaking world and your books always do really well. It would be always do really well. It would be always do really well. It would be really easy to lock in and load for the really easy to lock in and load for the really easy to lock in and load for the rest of your life. So I want you to talk rest of your life. So I want you to talk rest of your life. So I want you to talk for a minute to people listening who are for a minute to people listening who are for a minute to people listening who are like, "No, I've got my system down. Took like, "No, I've got my system down. Took like, "No, I've got my system down. Took me years to find my system. I got my me years to find my system. I got my me years to find my system. I got my system. Please don't mess with my system. Please don't mess with my system. Please don't mess with my system."

system." system." What would you say to them? What would you say to them? What would you say to them? Well, I would just say like you have to Well, I would just say like you have to Well, I would just say like you have to understand your own level of boredom and understand your own level of boredom and understand your own level of boredom and your own comfort zone. So for me, I came your own comfort zone. So for me, I came your own comfort zone. So for me, I came to a spot where it was like, "Okay, I to a spot where it was like, "Okay, I to a spot where it was like, "Okay, I think I need to be stretched." Like I think I need to be stretched." Like I think I need to be stretched." Like I don't know what that looks like and and don't know what that looks like and and don't know what that looks like and and I'm I'm I'm not exactly sure, but it's I'm I'm I'm not exactly sure, but it's I'm I'm I'm not exactly sure, but it's at least a multi-year experiment to try at least a multi-year experiment to try at least a multi-year experiment to try some new things, to be deliberate about some new things, to be deliberate about some new things, to be deliberate about it. And then the other thing is doing it. And then the other thing is doing it. And then the other thing is doing all this is going to make my core things all this is going to make my core things all this is going to make my core things better. I'm already a better leadership better. I'm already a better leadership better. I'm already a better leadership talk speaker having led. So now when I talk speaker having led. So now when I talk speaker having led. So now when I go into a spot, it's not, "Oh, imagine go into a spot, it's not, "Oh, imagine go into a spot, it's not, "Oh, imagine what leadership would be like." I can what leadership would be like." I can what leadership would be like." I can say, "Hey, here's a mistake I made with say, "Hey, here's a mistake I made with say, "Hey, here's a mistake I made with my team." Like just the other day, this my team." Like just the other day, this my team." Like just the other day, this this is one this is one this is one like saying the thing that you want in like saying the thing that you want in like saying the thing that you want in the wrong way. So, my team was bringing the wrong way. So, my team was bringing the wrong way. So, my team was bringing me lots of stuff to review. Like, "Hey, me lots of stuff to review. Like, "Hey, me lots of stuff to review. Like, "Hey, we need your approval. We need your we need your approval. We need your we need your approval. We need your approval." And I didn't need to see some approval." And I didn't need to see some approval." And I didn't need to see some of the stuff. So, I found myself saying, of the stuff. So, I found myself saying, of the stuff. So, I found myself saying, "I don't care. Just do it. I don't need "I don't care. Just do it. I don't need "I don't care. Just do it. I don't need to see it. I don't care." Wow, if you to see it. I don't care." Wow, if you to see it. I don't care." Wow, if you want to deflate a team, tell somebody want to deflate a team, tell somebody want to deflate a team, tell somebody who's worked hard on a project, "I don't who's worked hard on a project, "I don't who's worked hard on a project, "I don't care. I don't care." And it ruins the care. I don't care." And it ruins the care. I don't care." And it ruins the situation. What I was trying to say is, situation. What I was trying to say is, situation. What I was trying to say is, "I trust you to make the decision.

"I trust you to make the decision. "I trust you to make the decision. You're an expert. I hired you cuz you're You're an expert. I hired you cuz you're You're an expert. I hired you cuz you're an expert. I trust you. You can go make an expert. I trust you. You can go make an expert. I trust you. You can go make that decision. You are empowered for that decision. You are empowered for that decision. You are empowered for that decision." So, the result was the that decision." So, the result was the that decision." So, the result was the same. They went off and made the same. They went off and made the same. They went off and made the decision, but the the reality was so decision, but the the reality was so decision, but the the reality was so different. So, I didn't know that until different. So, I didn't know that until different. So, I didn't know that until I had people to lead. And now when I go I had people to lead. And now when I go I had people to lead. And now when I go speak to Range Rover about a leadership speak to Range Rover about a leadership speak to Range Rover about a leadership thing, I'm not thing, I'm not thing, I'm not hypothetically saying, "This is what it hypothetically saying, "This is what it hypothetically saying, "This is what it could be like." I'm saying, "Oh, I've could be like." I'm saying, "Oh, I've could be like." I'm saying, "Oh, I've been in a similar spot with a small been in a similar spot with a small been in a similar spot with a small team." Or I've been in a similar spot. team." Or I've been in a similar spot. team." Or I've been in a similar spot. So, for me, that's what I'd say is like So, for me, that's what I'd say is like So, for me, that's what I'd say is like it keeps you sharp. And then the other it keeps you sharp. And then the other it keeps you sharp. And then the other thing is I had so many people say, "I'm thing is I had so many people say, "I'm thing is I had so many people say, "I'm 50 now." They're like, "Why are you 50 now." They're like, "Why are you 50 now." They're like, "Why are you trying something new? Like why don't you trying something new? Like why don't you trying something new? Like why don't you just do the thing you've always done?" just do the thing you've always done?" just do the thing you've always done?" And I'm kind of And they're like, "Why And I'm kind of And they're like, "Why And I'm kind of And they're like, "Why are you working so hard?" I'm kind of are you working so hard?" I'm kind of are you working so hard?" I'm kind of like, "Well, ask a bird why it flies." like, "Well, ask a bird why it flies." like, "Well, ask a bird why it flies." Cuz it's a bird. Like this is I could Cuz it's a bird. Like this is I could Cuz it's a bird. Like this is I could say the same thing to you, Carrie. Okay, say the same thing to you, Carrie. Okay, say the same thing to you, Carrie. Okay, you're 60. You're you know, you're on you're 60. You're you know, you're on you're 60. You're you know, you're on the tail end or whatever. And I the tail end or whatever. And I the tail end or whatever. And I guarantee you what you'd say back to me guarantee you what you'd say back to me guarantee you what you'd say back to me is, "I'm just getting started. Like I is, "I'm just getting started. Like I is, "I'm just getting started. Like I just feel like I have enough wisdom to just feel like I have enough wisdom to just feel like I have enough wisdom to really help people. Like to really lean really help people. Like to really lean really help people. Like to really lean in." And so, I think you as a leader in." And so, I think you as a leader in." And so, I think you as a leader have to know your personal gauge and go have to know your personal gauge and go have to know your personal gauge and go like I'm not going to create chaos for like I'm not going to create chaos for like I'm not going to create chaos for chaos' sake. I'm not doing drama. I'm chaos' sake. I'm not doing drama. I'm chaos' sake. I'm not doing drama. I'm not doing I got to try things. Also, I'm not doing I got to try things. Also, I'm not doing I got to try things. Also, I'm not doing it for ego where it's like, not doing it for ego where it's like, not doing it for ego where it's like, "Oh, I haven't accomplished enough in my "Oh, I haven't accomplished enough in my "Oh, I haven't accomplished enough in my the whole is is not fed. I need to go do the whole is is not fed. I need to go do the whole is is not fed. I need to go do bigger stuff." That's a completely bigger stuff." That's a completely bigger stuff." That's a completely different conversation. It's more like I different conversation. It's more like I different conversation. It's more like I know I'm capable of more. I preach that know I'm capable of more. I preach that know I'm capable of more. I preach that to everyone else. What if I did a

to everyone else. What if I did a to everyone else. What if I did a multi-year experiment to see if that was multi-year experiment to see if that was multi-year experiment to see if that was the case. And be open that at, you know, the case. And be open that at, you know, the case. And be open that at, you know, a year in, two years in, three years in, a year in, two years in, three years in, a year in, two years in, three years in, you pivot and change it, too. It's not you pivot and change it, too. It's not you pivot and change it, too. It's not like I've, you know, signed up for the like I've, you know, signed up for the like I've, you know, signed up for the Marines and I'm going I'm going to be Marines and I'm going I'm going to be Marines and I'm going I'm going to be enlisted for the next 10 years. Like enlisted for the next 10 years. Like enlisted for the next 10 years. Like it's overlapping with what I'm good at, it's overlapping with what I'm good at, it's overlapping with what I'm good at, but I just think as leaders you have to but I just think as leaders you have to but I just think as leaders you have to be honest about I'm so comfortable I'm be honest about I'm so comfortable I'm be honest about I'm so comfortable I'm rusting versus like I'm comfortable and rusting versus like I'm comfortable and rusting versus like I'm comfortable and at rest in a good way, like I'm renewing at rest in a good way, like I'm renewing at rest in a good way, like I'm renewing myself, but I'm being challenged. My myself, but I'm being challenged. My myself, but I'm being challenged. My goal at Carry is to be exhausted but goal at Carry is to be exhausted but goal at Carry is to be exhausted but elated. Like I've exhausted everything elated. Like I've exhausted everything elated. Like I've exhausted everything I'm capable of, but man, I feel full. I'm capable of, but man, I feel full. I'm capable of, but man, I feel full. And I think when you plug into things And I think when you plug into things And I think when you plug into things you're good at, that's the feeling you you're good at, that's the feeling you you're good at, that's the feeling you get. get. get. That's a great way to see it. You know, That's a great way to see it. You know, That's a great way to see it. You know, but it's an adjustment. So, what you, but it's an adjustment. So, what you, but it's an adjustment. So, what you, you know, in the year two that you've you know, in the year two that you've you know, in the year two that you've been doing this this reboot, so to been doing this this reboot, so to been doing this this reboot, so to speak, what's the hardest part of cuz speak, what's the hardest part of cuz speak, what's the hardest part of cuz you used to work out of home, you you used to work out of home, you you used to work out of home, you basically had a couple of virtual basically had a couple of virtual basically had a couple of virtual people, like an assistant, maybe people, like an assistant, maybe people, like an assistant, maybe somebody helped you with social media, somebody helped you with social media, somebody helped you with social media, but that was about it. Now you've got but that was about it. Now you've got but that was about it. Now you've got like a real company and you're going to like a real company and you're going to like a real company and you're going to the office every day, and, you know, the office every day, and, you know, the office every day, and, you know, that kind of thing. What's been the that kind of thing. What's been the that kind of thing. What's been the hardest part of I do everything or hardest part of I do everything or hardest part of I do everything or everything goes through me to now everything goes through me to now everything goes through me to now actually having a team that you trust to actually having a team that you trust to actually having a team that you trust to do the work? Well, the hardest part has do the work? Well, the hardest part has do the work? Well, the hardest part has been realizing I'm the cause of the been realizing I'm the cause of the been realizing I'm the cause of the chaos. Like the main source of the chaos chaos. Like the main source of the chaos chaos. Like the main source of the chaos or complexity is me. So, it owning that or complexity is me. So, it owning that or complexity is me. So, it owning that and admitting that and going, how do I and admitting that and going, how do I and admitting that and going, how do I simplify? How do I simplify? How do I simplify? How do I simplify? How do I simplify? How do I simplify? How do I simplify?

simplify? simplify? Um and realizing Um and realizing Um and realizing when you're a leader, you can't when you're a leader, you can't when you're a leader, you can't brainstorm the same way you used to brainstorm the same way you used to brainstorm the same way you used to brainstorm. Meaning unless I'm hyper brainstorm. Meaning unless I'm hyper brainstorm. Meaning unless I'm hyper clear, I can't sit down with some people clear, I can't sit down with some people clear, I can't sit down with some people that work for me and go, what if we did that work for me and go, what if we did that work for me and go, what if we did these seven things and then not tell these seven things and then not tell these seven things and then not tell them which ones are really important. them which ones are really important. them which ones are really important. So, like I've learned that over and over So, like I've learned that over and over So, like I've learned that over and over and over. I have this meeting and I go, and over. I have this meeting and I go, and over. I have this meeting and I go, these are seven things we should think these are seven things we should think these are seven things we should think about. And they about. And they about. And they rightfully so go work on them, and then rightfully so go work on them, and then rightfully so go work on them, and then they come back and they go, "We did they come back and they go, "We did they come back and they go, "We did thing two, five, and six. Were those the thing two, five, and six. Were those the thing two, five, and six. Were those the right ones?" I go, "Uh, no, I actually right ones?" I go, "Uh, no, I actually right ones?" I go, "Uh, no, I actually wanted one, four, and eight, but I I wanted one, four, and eight, but I I wanted one, four, and eight, but I I didn't have the courage to decide." So, didn't have the courage to decide." So, didn't have the courage to decide." So, I'm realizing as a leader, you have to I'm realizing as a leader, you have to I'm realizing as a leader, you have to have tremendous courage to decide and have tremendous courage to decide and have tremendous courage to decide and hold to the decision and not get hold to the decision and not get hold to the decision and not get distracted. So, you know, when it was distracted. So, you know, when it was distracted. So, you know, when it was just me, I could make stuff up if it just me, I could make stuff up if it just me, I could make stuff up if it didn't work. Uh, no big deal. Like, I'm didn't work. Uh, no big deal. Like, I'm didn't work. Uh, no big deal. Like, I'm a distracted guy, who cares? But if I a distracted guy, who cares? But if I a distracted guy, who cares? But if I have real budgets and real people have real budgets and real people have real budgets and real people working on real projects, and then I working on real projects, and then I working on real projects, and then I change my mind cuz I talked to somebody change my mind cuz I talked to somebody change my mind cuz I talked to somebody at the airport, or I heard another cool at the airport, or I heard another cool at the airport, or I heard another cool idea on a podcast, now we're off the idea on a podcast, now we're off the idea on a podcast, now we're off the deep end. So, I would just say it's been deep end. So, I would just say it's been deep end. So, I would just say it's been about me trying to learn how to set about me trying to learn how to set about me trying to learn how to set clear intentions, how to stay detailed.

clear intentions, how to stay detailed. clear intentions, how to stay detailed. I've had to up my detail game I've had to up my detail game I've had to up my detail game tremendously. And then as far as letting tremendously. And then as far as letting tremendously. And then as far as letting stuff go, it's figuring out which things stuff go, it's figuring out which things stuff go, it's figuring out which things can you let go, which things you can't can you let go, which things you can't can you let go, which things you can't you let go. And you learn. It's a give you let go. And you learn. It's a give you let go. And you learn. It's a give and take. Like, there's some things I'll and take. Like, there's some things I'll and take. Like, there's some things I'll let go. I don't need to be involved in let go. I don't need to be involved in let go. I don't need to be involved in that, and then I have to pull it back that, and then I have to pull it back that, and then I have to pull it back and realize, "Oh, no, there's still a and realize, "Oh, no, there's still a and realize, "Oh, no, there's still a lot of like I'm still a lot of the magic lot of like I'm still a lot of the magic lot of like I'm still a lot of the magic for that thing. I do need to be for that thing. I do need to be for that thing. I do need to be involved." But this other thing I involved." But this other thing I involved." But this other thing I thought I need to be, I don't need to do thought I need to be, I don't need to do thought I need to be, I don't need to do that. Like, I don't need to be involved that. Like, I don't need to be involved that. Like, I don't need to be involved in workbooks. I'm not good at creating in workbooks. I'm not good at creating in workbooks. I'm not good at creating workbooks. Like, I That's not how I workbooks. Like, I That's not how I workbooks. Like, I That's not how I think, but I have people on my team who think, but I have people on my team who think, but I have people on my team who are amazing at workbooks. So, if I write are amazing at workbooks. So, if I write are amazing at workbooks. So, if I write this 50-page talk and they turn it into this 50-page talk and they turn it into this 50-page talk and they turn it into a workbook, I take a cursory look at a workbook, I take a cursory look at a workbook, I take a cursory look at that, but I'm not going in there and that, but I'm not going in there and that, but I'm not going in there and going, "On page 19 of the workbook, you going, "On page 19 of the workbook, you going, "On page 19 of the workbook, you have a fill-in-the-blank that I just have a fill-in-the-blank that I just have a fill-in-the-blank that I just don't agree with." Like, that's not a don't agree with." Like, that's not a don't agree with." Like, that's not a good use of my time, and it also good use of my time, and it also good use of my time, and it also deflates them. deflates them. deflates them. Well, you know, you've been at this for Well, you know, you've been at this for Well, you know, you've been at this for a while, writing books. This is We're a while, writing books. This is We're a while, writing books. This is We're going to talk about going to talk about going to talk about procrastination-proof, uh, cuz I think procrastination-proof, uh, cuz I think procrastination-proof, uh, cuz I think it's a topic that really impacts people. it's a topic that really impacts people. it's a topic that really impacts people. What book is this? Number What book is this? Number What book is this? Number Uh, this is book 11. 11, dude. I'm on Uh, this is book 11. 11, dude. I'm on Uh, this is book 11. 11, dude. I'm on six right now. So, just kudos, kudos, six right now. So, just kudos, kudos, six right now. So, just kudos, kudos, kudos. Yeah, I'm loving it. Forgot how kudos. Yeah, I'm loving it. Forgot how kudos. Yeah, I'm loving it. Forgot how much I love writing. But, um, what has much I love writing. But, um, what has much I love writing. But, um, what has changed the most since you first went changed the most since you first went changed the most since you first went out on your own over a decade ago and out on your own over a decade ago and out on your own over a decade ago and you know, you try to cut through the you know, you try to cut through the you know, you try to cut through the noise, you try to get your book out noise, you try to get your book out noise, you try to get your book out there, you try to get your message out there, you try to get your message out there, you try to get your message out there. Social media, you've had a big there. Social media, you've had a big there. Social media, you've had a big following for a long time. What has following for a long time. What has following for a long time. What has changed the most in terms of getting a changed the most in terms of getting a changed the most in terms of getting a message out there?

message out there? message out there? Well, I mean, it's really, really, Well, I mean, it's really, really, Well, I mean, it's really, really, really, really, really crowded. I said I really, really, really crowded. I said I really, really, really crowded. I said I said to you before, my first kind of said to you before, my first kind of said to you before, my first kind of thing that hit the scene was I wrote a thing that hit the scene was I wrote a thing that hit the scene was I wrote a satire blog called Stuff Christians Like satire blog called Stuff Christians Like satire blog called Stuff Christians Like and it was a satire of faith. It and it was a satire of faith. It and it was a satire of faith. It couldn't do what it did now if I couldn't do what it did now if I couldn't do what it did now if I released it because there's 10,000 other released it because there's 10,000 other released it because there's 10,000 other people writing about Christian satire. people writing about Christian satire. people writing about Christian satire. At the time, I didn't have to compete At the time, I didn't have to compete At the time, I didn't have to compete with that many people. There were still with that many people. There were still with that many people. There were still people doing it. I didn't invent that, people doing it. I didn't invent that, people doing it. I didn't invent that, of course, but the market is really of course, but the market is really of course, but the market is really crowded, I would say and then the way crowded, I would say and then the way crowded, I would say and then the way people connect with your content. Like people connect with your content. Like people connect with your content. Like just the other day I realized it's been just the other day I realized it's been just the other day I realized it's been a long time since I followed somebody a long time since I followed somebody a long time since I followed somebody new on Instagram. I believe the way new on Instagram. I believe the way new on Instagram. I believe the way Instagram works now is people trust the Instagram works now is people trust the Instagram works now is people trust the algorithm to show them that thing they algorithm to show them that thing they algorithm to show them that thing they like again. So, they're you're kind of like again. So, they're you're kind of like again. So, they're you're kind of gambling. Like because they changed the gambling. Like because they changed the gambling. Like because they changed the feed. The feed used to be these are the feed. The feed used to be these are the feed. The feed used to be these are the people I follow and I only see people I people I follow and I only see people I people I follow and I only see people I follow. And now they've jammed in so follow. And now they've jammed in so follow. And now they've jammed in so many different ads and so many different many different ads and so many different many different ads and so many different What about this guy? What about this What about this guy? What about this What about this guy? What about this guy? People no longer trust their feed. guy? People no longer trust their feed. guy? People no longer trust their feed. I think what they trust is they go to I think what they trust is they go to I think what they trust is they go to the explore page and they go Oh, if I the explore page and they go Oh, if I the explore page and they go Oh, if I watch this clip, you'll probably show me watch this clip, you'll probably show me watch this clip, you'll probably show me this guy again and maybe the 15th time I this guy again and maybe the 15th time I this guy again and maybe the 15th time I see him, I'll watch him, but that's all see him, I'll watch him, but that's all see him, I'll watch him, but that's all right. Same with YouTube. I don't think right. Same with YouTube. I don't think right. Same with YouTube. I don't think people are subscribing the same way. So, people are subscribing the same way. So, people are subscribing the same way. So, that makes it hard to {quote} {unquote} that makes it hard to {quote} {unquote} that makes it hard to {quote} {unquote} grow a following cuz I think people are grow a following cuz I think people are grow a following cuz I think people are digesting content in a very different digesting content in a very different digesting content in a very different way.

way. way. Yeah, I think that's really true, you Yeah, I think that's really true, you Yeah, I think that's really true, you know, I I started following a few people know, I I started following a few people know, I I started following a few people that I haven't followed, but generally, that I haven't followed, but generally, that I haven't followed, but generally, I think we've all resigned to the fact I think we've all resigned to the fact I think we've all resigned to the fact that no matter how hard we fight the that no matter how hard we fight the that no matter how hard we fight the algorithm, the algorithm's just going to algorithm, the algorithm's just going to algorithm, the algorithm's just going to determine what we see. determine what we see. determine what we see. Oh, yeah, no, it's it's uh you have to Oh, yeah, no, it's it's uh you have to Oh, yeah, no, it's it's uh you have to remember all of these things we're remember all of these things we're remember all of these things we're talking about are advertisements that talking about are advertisements that talking about are advertisements that also show us things we like. But they're also show us things we like. But they're also show us things we like. But they're advertisements. Like Instagram's goal advertisements. Like Instagram's goal advertisements. Like Instagram's goal isn't that I get to connect with my isn't that I get to connect with my isn't that I get to connect with my friends. Their goal is to monetize my friends. Their goal is to monetize my friends. Their goal is to monetize my attention in as many ways as possible. attention in as many ways as possible. attention in as many ways as possible. And occasionally they have to show me a And occasionally they have to show me a And occasionally they have to show me a friend, but they'd really rather friend, but they'd really rather friend, but they'd really rather monetize like that's not their goal. And monetize like that's not their goal. And monetize like that's not their goal. And so I yeah. So I just think that's so I yeah. So I just think that's so I yeah. So I just think that's changed in the last since you and I have changed in the last since you and I have changed in the last since you and I have been doing this for 15 years or so, been doing this for 15 years or so, been doing this for 15 years or so, that's changed a lot. And then I think that's changed a lot. And then I think that's changed a lot. And then I think there's a lot of things that haven't there's a lot of things that haven't there's a lot of things that haven't changed. I think relationship matters changed. I think relationship matters changed. I think relationship matters more than ever. I think I think to your more than ever. I think I think to your more than ever. I think I think to your point about your you know, AI we've point about your you know, AI we've point about your you know, AI we've talked about. I think that being real in talked about. I think that being real in talked about. I think that being real in a world that is progressively getting a world that is progressively getting a world that is progressively getting harder and harder to discern what is harder and harder to discern what is harder and harder to discern what is real digitally. Like that matters.

real digitally. Like that matters. real digitally. Like that matters. Being you know, connected to real people Being you know, connected to real people Being you know, connected to real people matters. So I I think there's a lot of matters. So I I think there's a lot of matters. So I I think there's a lot of things that have changed, but there's a things that have changed, but there's a things that have changed, but there's a lot of things that have stayed the same, lot of things that have stayed the same, lot of things that have stayed the same, too. too. too. >> So So how do you keep building an >> So So how do you keep building an >> So So how do you keep building an audience then? Cuz you keep growing your audience then? Cuz you keep growing your audience then? Cuz you keep growing your audience. Like what are you finding to audience. Like what are you finding to audience. Like what are you finding to be the most effective channels? be the most effective channels? be the most effective channels? Well, I mean for me, like I'm really Well, I mean for me, like I'm really Well, I mean for me, like I'm really starting to starting to starting to like lean into LinkedIn. I've kind of like lean into LinkedIn. I've kind of like lean into LinkedIn. I've kind of neglect LinkedIn to be honest with you. neglect LinkedIn to be honest with you. neglect LinkedIn to be honest with you. And as somebody who's a corporate And as somebody who's a corporate And as somebody who's a corporate business speaker, that is insanity. So business speaker, that is insanity. So business speaker, that is insanity. So I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> wait a second. Like I speak to a big >> wait a second. Like I speak to a big >> wait a second. Like I speak to a big company and then they're all on LinkedIn company and then they're all on LinkedIn company and then they're all on LinkedIn and they follow me and then I have no and they follow me and then I have no and they follow me and then I have no plan for that. Or I don't follow an plan for that. Or I don't follow an plan for that. Or I don't follow an event planner who booked me and thank event planner who booked me and thank event planner who booked me and thank like I'm like, like I'm like, like I'm like, so I think there's as a communicator or so I think there's as a communicator or so I think there's as a communicator or somebody who's trying to grow a platform somebody who's trying to grow a platform somebody who's trying to grow a platform you have to go where your people are and you have to go where your people are and you have to go where your people are and you have to you also have to be really you have to you also have to be really you have to you also have to be really smart about data. Like that's the thing. smart about data. Like that's the thing. smart about data. Like that's the thing. And thank goodness for AI. And thank goodness for AI. And thank goodness for AI. But I was just thinking the other day, But I was just thinking the other day, But I was just thinking the other day, I've never once pulled a report from I've never once pulled a report from I've never once pulled a report from Instagram on how many Instagram on how many Instagram on how many links to my speaking request page people links to my speaking request page people links to my speaking request page people have clicked on. Like that would be an have clicked on. Like that would be an have clicked on. Like that would be an amazing stat to know. Meaning I speak amazing stat to know. Meaning I speak amazing stat to know. Meaning I speak somewhere and I go, "Hey, and if you somewhere and I go, "Hey, and if you somewhere and I go, "Hey, and if you want to book me, too, here's the link."

want to book me, too, here's the link." want to book me, too, here's the link." I've never once gone and said, "Wow, I've never once gone and said, "Wow, I've never once gone and said, "Wow, Instagram drove a thousand people there Instagram drove a thousand people there Instagram drove a thousand people there or they drove two. Like, wow, it's an or they drove two. Like, wow, it's an or they drove two. Like, wow, it's an expensive use of my marketing budget to expensive use of my marketing budget to expensive use of my marketing budget to not drive any speaking. I should I not drive any speaking. I should I not drive any speaking. I should I should figure that out. So, I think should figure that out. So, I think should figure that out. So, I think figuring out the data is how I continue figuring out the data is how I continue figuring out the data is how I continue to kind of pivot and then creating to kind of pivot and then creating to kind of pivot and then creating enough content that you give some of it enough content that you give some of it enough content that you give some of it a chance to blow up or some of it a a chance to blow up or some of it a a chance to blow up or some of it a chance to go good. But even in that, chance to go good. But even in that, chance to go good. But even in that, Carey, Carey, Carey, I'll say I'll have a video go viral. I'll say I'll have a video go viral. I'll say I'll have a video go viral. Like, 300,000 people view it. It'll get Like, 300,000 people view it. It'll get Like, 300,000 people view it. It'll get like 50 follows. Like, so it's because like 50 follows. Like, so it's because like 50 follows. Like, so it's because people don't follow the same way. So, people don't follow the same way. So, people don't follow the same way. So, 300,000 people saw it and 50 were like, 300,000 people saw it and 50 were like, 300,000 people saw it and 50 were like, I will follow. So, also changing, you I will follow. So, also changing, you I will follow. So, also changing, you know, what you expect the the kind of know, what you expect the the kind of know, what you expect the the kind of what you're measuring and and what what you're measuring and and what what you're measuring and and what you're interested in. I just think you're interested in. I just think you're interested in. I just think there's so many different ways to there's so many different ways to there's so many different ways to measure it. And I think as a leader, you measure it. And I think as a leader, you measure it. And I think as a leader, you have to get really deliberate about, have to get really deliberate about, have to get really deliberate about, "Oh, no, this matters." Like, at the end "Oh, no, this matters." Like, at the end "Oh, no, this matters." Like, at the end of the day, Carey, I have 60 clients a of the day, Carey, I have 60 clients a of the day, Carey, I have 60 clients a year, meaning I have 60 events that book year, meaning I have 60 events that book year, meaning I have 60 events that book me to speak. That's not 6 million. So, me to speak. That's not 6 million. So, me to speak. That's not 6 million. So, how do I super serve those 60 people?

how do I super serve those 60 people? how do I super serve those 60 people? How do I super serve those moments? And How do I super serve those moments? And How do I super serve those moments? And so, if I get distracted too much by so, if I get distracted too much by so, if I get distracted too much by social, I miss the like, "Oh, no, I social, I miss the like, "Oh, no, I social, I miss the like, "Oh, no, I don't My business isn't endless." Like, don't My business isn't endless." Like, don't My business isn't endless." Like, I have 60 clients. What's the follow-up? I have 60 clients. What's the follow-up? I have 60 clients. What's the follow-up? How do I lean in? How do I start How do I lean in? How do I start How do I lean in? How do I start relationships? How do I start relationships? How do I start relationships? How do I start conversations? That's completely conversations? That's completely conversations? That's completely different from I have to do the whole different from I have to do the whole different from I have to do the whole world. This episode is brought to you by world. This episode is brought to you by world. This episode is brought to you by The Church Network. So, The Church The Church Network. So, The Church The Church Network. So, The Church Network Conference 2026 is where Network Conference 2026 is where Network Conference 2026 is where ministry leaders go to strengthen the ministry leaders go to strengthen the ministry leaders go to strengthen the systems that strengthen the church. You systems that strengthen the church. You systems that strengthen the church. You can join hundreds of executive pastors, can join hundreds of executive pastors, can join hundreds of executive pastors, church administrators, operations church administrators, operations church administrators, operations directors, and next-gen leaders in West directors, and next-gen leaders in West directors, and next-gen leaders in West Palm Beach this July for 4 days of Palm Beach this July for 4 days of Palm Beach this July for 4 days of practical learning, future-focused practical learning, future-focused practical learning, future-focused conversations, and Christ-centered conversations, and Christ-centered conversations, and Christ-centered community. So, this goes from finance to community. So, this goes from finance to community. So, this goes from finance to HR to technology, facilities, and HR to technology, facilities, and HR to technology, facilities, and leadership development. And there, leadership development. And there, leadership development. And there, you're going to learn from trusted you're going to learn from trusted you're going to learn from trusted experts and walk away with tools you can experts and walk away with tools you can experts and walk away with tools you can use immediately. Plus, you'll connect use immediately. Plus, you'll connect use immediately. Plus, you'll connect with peers who understand the weight with peers who understand the weight with peers who understand the weight that you carry and the many hats you that you carry and the many hats you that you carry and the many hats you wear. You don't have to lead alone.

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and practical lesson preparation helps. and practical lesson preparation helps. These aren't trendy resources that These aren't trendy resources that These aren't trendy resources that disappear in a year. They're trusted, disappear in a year. They're trusted, disappear in a year. They're trusted, proven curriculum that more than 10,000 proven curriculum that more than 10,000 proven curriculum that more than 10,000 churches rely on every single quarter. churches rely on every single quarter. churches rely on every single quarter. So, visit lifestoneministries.org So, visit lifestoneministries.org So, visit lifestoneministries.org to learn more or to order. That's to learn more or to order. That's to learn more or to order. That's lifestoneministries.org. lifestoneministries.org. lifestoneministries.org. If you you see, think about it. You've If you you see, think about it. You've If you you see, think about it. You've got multiple platforms. You got social got multiple platforms. You got social got multiple platforms. You got social media, you got your email list, you've media, you got your email list, you've media, you got your email list, you've got books, you've got your public got books, you've got your public got books, you've got your public speaking. speaking. speaking. If you had to say, If you had to say, If you had to say, this is an artificial exercise, but this is an artificial exercise, but this is an artificial exercise, but I've got to get rid of it all and I can I've got to get rid of it all and I can I've got to get rid of it all and I can only do one thing. only do one thing. only do one thing. Yeah, public speaking. Public speaking Yeah, public speaking. Public speaking Yeah, public speaking. Public speaking is my second. Now, I would say like I I is my second. Now, I would say like I I is my second. Now, I would say like I I to be able to teach it, too, because I to be able to teach it, too, because I to be able to teach it, too, because I think there's lessons that took me 15 think there's lessons that took me 15 think there's lessons that took me 15 years to learn that I think I could save years to learn that I think I could save years to learn that I think I could save somebody 5 years. And I think I could somebody 5 years. And I think I could somebody 5 years. And I think I could actually like here's a lesson. This is actually like here's a lesson. This is actually like here's a lesson. This is just a free one. just a free one. just a free one. It took me years to learn that when I'm It took me years to learn that when I'm It took me years to learn that when I'm at an event and it goes well and a at an event and it goes well and a at an event and it goes well and a client or whoever in the crowd goes, client or whoever in the crowd goes, client or whoever in the crowd goes, "Hey, we'd love to have you come to "Hey, we'd love to have you come to "Hey, we'd love to have you come to ours." And that happens. Whether you're ours." And that happens. Whether you're ours." And that happens. Whether you're a pastor speaking at their church, a pastor speaking at their church, a pastor speaking at their church, whatever. Somebody goes, "Hey, we'd love whatever. Somebody goes, "Hey, we'd love whatever. Somebody goes, "Hey, we'd love you to speak at ours. Do you have a you to speak at ours. Do you have a you to speak at ours. Do you have a card?" There's still people that go, "Do card?" There's still people that go, "Do card?" There's still people that go, "Do you have a card?" Mhm. I don't give my you have a card?" Mhm. I don't give my you have a card?" Mhm. I don't give my card to anybody. I used to, but then I card to anybody. I used to, but then I card to anybody. I used to, but then I realized I'm giving them a task. Every realized I'm giving them a task. Every realized I'm giving them a task. Every time I give you that card, you just got time I give you that card, you just got time I give you that card, you just got a job that I hope you do later. But the a job that I hope you do later. But the a job that I hope you do later. But the reality is you're going to lose that reality is you're going to lose that reality is you're going to lose that card by the time you get to their hotel card by the time you get to their hotel card by the time you get to their hotel room. You're not going to follow up. I'd room. You're not going to follow up. I'd room. You're not going to follow up. I'd rather own the task. So that's a small rather own the task. So that's a small rather own the task. So that's a small little thing where you go, if I'm at an little thing where you go, if I'm at an little thing where you go, if I'm at an event, I get their cell phone number. I event, I get their cell phone number. I event, I get their cell phone number. I get their email because that's my job,

get their email because that's my job, get their email because that's my job, not yours. And I don't think speakers not yours. And I don't think speakers not yours. And I don't think speakers think that way often. And so little think that way often. And so little think that way often. And so little things like that where you're like, oh, things like that where you're like, oh, things like that where you're like, oh, No, that's the that's the way to grow. I No, that's the that's the way to grow. I No, that's the that's the way to grow. I should have a goal of five new people in should have a goal of five new people in should have a goal of five new people in my conversation every event I do. Cuz my conversation every event I do. Cuz my conversation every event I do. Cuz then if I do 50 events, I have two 250 then if I do 50 events, I have two 250 then if I do 50 events, I have two 250 warm leads who just saw me do the thing warm leads who just saw me do the thing warm leads who just saw me do the thing I'm best at. And like you just I'm best at. And like you just I'm best at. And like you just auditioned for 50 minutes. Like there auditioned for 50 minutes. Like there auditioned for 50 minutes. Like there should be some other stuff. Carey, last should be some other stuff. Carey, last should be some other stuff. Carey, last year 40% of my speaking events were year 40% of my speaking events were year 40% of my speaking events were repeat clients. And in our business, repeat clients. And in our business, repeat clients. And in our business, that is wild, dude. that is wild, dude. that is wild, dude. >> That is crazy. So like but I've dialed >> That is crazy. So like but I've dialed >> That is crazy. So like but I've dialed that in. So like if you said to me that in. So like if you said to me that in. So like if you said to me there's only one thing, I'd go like I've there's only one thing, I'd go like I've there's only one thing, I'd go like I've written 12 books. I want to keep writing written 12 books. I want to keep writing written 12 books. I want to keep writing obviously, but man, like that like doing obviously, but man, like that like doing obviously, but man, like that like doing that as a career and then teaching that as a career and then teaching that as a career and then teaching people how to do that, that's my jam. people how to do that, that's my jam. people how to do that, that's my jam. Well, on that note, when we were texting Well, on that note, when we were texting Well, on that note, when we were texting about what do you want to talk about, about what do you want to talk about, about what do you want to talk about, you know, cuz I had a list of questions you know, cuz I had a list of questions you know, cuz I had a list of questions I wanted to ask you about. You're like, I wanted to ask you about. You're like, I wanted to ask you about. You're like, oh, I'm doing a couple of live like web oh, I'm doing a couple of live like web oh, I'm doing a couple of live like web like not webinars, but like in-person like not webinars, but like in-person like not webinars, but like in-person sessions. Can you tell us a little bit sessions. Can you tell us a little bit sessions. Can you tell us a little bit about that and tell us why you're moving about that and tell us why you're moving about that and tell us why you're moving in that cuz you did a live event last in that cuz you did a live event last in that cuz you did a live event last year. We're doing live events now in our year. We're doing live events now in our year. We're doing live events now in our company. I love them. I mean two or company. I love them. I mean two or company. I love them. I mean two or three day events. So, why are you three day events. So, why are you three day events. So, why are you pivoting there and what do you think the pivoting there and what do you think the pivoting there and what do you think the advantage is by doing in-person events advantage is by doing in-person events advantage is by doing in-person events in a world that's so digital? Well, I in a world that's so digital? Well, I in a world that's so digital? Well, I think it's one of the few things that think it's one of the few things that think it's one of the few things that are AI proof. Like even COVID couldn't are AI proof. Like even COVID couldn't are AI proof. Like even COVID couldn't kill live events. If it was ever going kill live events. If it was ever going kill live events. If it was ever going to die, if the medium of live events was

to die, if the medium of live events was to die, if the medium of live events was going to die, when it became illegal going to die, when it became illegal going to die, when it became illegal would have been the death. Like when would have been the death. Like when would have been the death. Like when states said like there were states in states said like there were states in states said like there were states in America where it was like, "It's illegal America where it was like, "It's illegal America where it was like, "It's illegal to gather." And we still came back. 2022 to gather." And we still came back. 2022 to gather." And we still came back. 2022 was my biggest year of public speaking. was my biggest year of public speaking. was my biggest year of public speaking. 2023 was really big because we're built 2023 was really big because we're built 2023 was really big because we're built for live settings. We're built for for live settings. We're built for for live settings. We're built for community. So, one reason I'm doing this community. So, one reason I'm doing this community. So, one reason I'm doing this is I believe it's AI proof. I can be is I believe it's AI proof. I can be is I believe it's AI proof. I can be like the events can be enhanced by AI, like the events can be enhanced by AI, like the events can be enhanced by AI, but it's not that's it's not I'll I'll but it's not that's it's not I'll I'll but it's not that's it's not I'll I'll never out write AI. Like a year from now never out write AI. Like a year from now never out write AI. Like a year from now maybe we're doing this podcast and I'm maybe we're doing this podcast and I'm maybe we're doing this podcast and I'm I'm telling you Carey, 90% of my videos I'm telling you Carey, 90% of my videos I'm telling you Carey, 90% of my videos aren't even me. Like the other day my aren't even me. Like the other day my aren't even me. Like the other day my team made a 30-second audio clip of me team made a 30-second audio clip of me team made a 30-second audio clip of me saying something encouraging. It wasn't saying something encouraging. It wasn't saying something encouraging. It wasn't my voice. I hadn't recorded it. They my voice. I hadn't recorded it. They my voice. I hadn't recorded it. They just and I sent it to my mom and my dad just and I sent it to my mom and my dad just and I sent it to my mom and my dad and they both thought it was me. They and they both thought it was me. They and they both thought it was me. They go, "That's so great John. Thanks for go, "That's so great John. Thanks for go, "That's so great John. Thanks for that." And they're my parents and they that." And they're my parents and they that." And they're my parents and they couldn't tell. So, live events are AI couldn't tell. So, live events are AI couldn't tell. So, live events are AI proof. The reason I'm I'm still doing proof. The reason I'm I'm still doing proof. The reason I'm I'm still doing I've got a our second event we did kind I've got a our second event we did kind I've got a our second event we did kind of a big one. The reason I want to do of a big one. The reason I want to do of a big one. The reason I want to do these speaking intensive and a writer's these speaking intensive and a writer's these speaking intensive and a writer's intensive. So, we're going to do two is intensive. So, we're going to do two is intensive. So, we're going to do two is it's the things I'm best at and I it's the things I'm best at and I it's the things I'm best at and I believe they're the best job in the believe they're the best job in the believe they're the best job in the world. I really do. Like it's the thing world. I really do. Like it's the thing world. I really do. Like it's the thing I have the most passion for and for 15 I have the most passion for and for 15 I have the most passion for and for 15 years people have come up to me and years people have come up to me and years people have come up to me and said, "I want to do what you do. How do said, "I want to do what you do. How do said, "I want to do what you do. How do I do what you do? What's the path? How I do what you do? What's the path? How I do what you do? What's the path? How do I do it? How do I climb from being a do I do it? How do I climb from being a do I do it? How do I climb from being a $2,500 speaker to 20,000?" Cuz there's a $2,500 speaker to 20,000?" Cuz there's a $2,500 speaker to 20,000?" Cuz there's a ladder. There's some deliberate steps ladder. There's some deliberate steps ladder. There's some deliberate steps that I did to get to that spot. How do I that I did to get to that spot. How do I that I did to get to that spot. How do I get a publisher? Like how do I go from get a publisher? Like how do I go from get a publisher? Like how do I go from the 50 proposals they have on their

the 50 proposals they have on their the 50 proposals they have on their desk, the acquisition editor, to the one desk, the acquisition editor, to the one desk, the acquisition editor, to the one they look at? What does that process they look at? What does that process they look at? What does that process look like? How do you sell books? How do look like? How do you sell books? How do look like? How do you sell books? How do you I have all that knowledge, and I you I have all that knowledge, and I you I have all that knowledge, and I want to show people how fun that can be. want to show people how fun that can be. want to show people how fun that can be. And so, I the hard like the hard thing And so, I the hard like the hard thing And so, I the hard like the hard thing is going to be just doing it in a single is going to be just doing it in a single is going to be just doing it in a single day, which is we'll probably have a day, which is we'll probably have a day, which is we'll probably have a mastermind on the back half because mastermind on the back half because mastermind on the back half because there's so many different ways you can there's so many different ways you can there's so many different ways you can go. Even just pricing yourself, so many go. Even just pricing yourself, so many go. Even just pricing yourself, so many people under price themselves. And they people under price themselves. And they people under price themselves. And they don't know how to say like, "No, like don't know how to say like, "No, like don't know how to say like, "No, like Simple simple example. Simple simple example. Simple simple example. Speakers don't understand that when you Speakers don't understand that when you Speakers don't understand that when you speak at a company, like they have speak at a company, like they have speak at a company, like they have budget for this. Like they have but like budget for this. Like they have but like budget for this. Like they have but like you might not think about the money that you might not think about the money that you might not think about the money that way, but they think of that as a budget way, but they think of that as a budget way, but they think of that as a budget item, and they have a preset budget. So, item, and they have a preset budget. So, item, and they have a preset budget. So, you can There's money there that you can you can There's money there that you can you can There's money there that you can talk to them about. But so sometimes I talk to them about. But so sometimes I talk to them about. But so sometimes I have people go, "Well, I'll just have people go, "Well, I'll just have people go, "Well, I'll just whatever they have. Like I know they whatever they have. Like I know they whatever they have. Like I know they probably And and like I don't want to I probably And and like I don't want to I probably And and like I don't want to I don't want to push on price." don't want to push on price." don't want to push on price." >> Yeah, exactly. So, for me, that's why I >> Yeah, exactly. So, for me, that's why I >> Yeah, exactly. So, for me, that's why I want to do it. I think it's the best job want to do it. I think it's the best job want to do it. I think it's the best job in the world. I've dialed it in. Um it's in the world. I've dialed it in. Um it's in the world. I've dialed it in. Um it's I I was The way I say public speaking is I I was The way I say public speaking is I I was The way I say public speaking is you get to go speak in beautiful places, you get to go speak in beautiful places, you get to go speak in beautiful places, uh encouraging people, doing something uh encouraging people, doing something uh encouraging people, doing something you love and get paid for it. It's It's you love and get paid for it. It's It's you love and get paid for it. It's It's one of you know, and writing a book is one of you know, and writing a book is one of you know, and writing a book is they're they're peanut butter and jelly.

they're they're peanut butter and jelly. they're they're peanut butter and jelly. Like so, for me, it just makes a lot of Like so, for me, it just makes a lot of Like so, for me, it just makes a lot of sense. sense. sense. Hm. Hm. Hm. So, um you've got these two live So, um you've got these two live So, um you've got these two live workshops coming up, which is great. If workshops coming up, which is great. If workshops coming up, which is great. If people do want more work, where can they people do want more work, where can they people do want more work, where can they find out about them? find out about them? find out about them? Yeah, so if you go to johnacuff.com, Yeah, so if you go to johnacuff.com, Yeah, so if you go to johnacuff.com, um um um /stage, that's where you find out about /stage, that's where you find out about /stage, that's where you find out about the uh the event. Okay. the uh the event. Okay. the uh the event. Okay. Um Um Um I got to Oh yeah, one more thing I want I got to Oh yeah, one more thing I want I got to Oh yeah, one more thing I want to talk to you about before I talk about to talk to you about before I talk about to talk to you about before I talk about procrastination. In 2023, you started procrastination. In 2023, you started procrastination. In 2023, you started tracking every hour. This is like I know tracking every hour. This is like I know tracking every hour. This is like I know two people now, Jim Collins and you, who two people now, Jim Collins and you, who two people now, Jim Collins and you, who track every hour. Tell us a little bit track every hour. Tell us a little bit track every hour. Tell us a little bit about that. Like why did you do that? about that. Like why did you do that? about that. Like why did you do that? What are you learning? Cuz you're always What are you learning? Cuz you're always What are you learning? Cuz you're always like And and you know, I know a lot of like And and you know, I know a lot of like And and you know, I know a lot of you guys have followed Jon for a long you guys have followed Jon for a long you guys have followed Jon for a long time, but the funnest thing about being time, but the funnest thing about being time, but the funnest thing about being a friend of Jon Acuff is every single a friend of Jon Acuff is every single a friend of Jon Acuff is every single time there's something new. Every single time there's something new. Every single time there's something new. Every single time it's like, "Oh, I'm trying this new time it's like, "Oh, I'm trying this new time it's like, "Oh, I'm trying this new thing." Or we just did this, or we just thing." Or we just did this, or we just thing." Or we just did this, or we just did that. Like, it's it's so fun. So, did that. Like, it's it's so fun. So, did that. Like, it's it's so fun. So, for 2 years now, 2 and 1/2 years, you've for 2 years now, 2 and 1/2 years, you've for 2 years now, 2 and 1/2 years, you've been tracking every hour. What's up? been tracking every hour. What's up? been tracking every hour. What's up? Yeah, so for me, I just realized it's Yeah, so for me, I just realized it's Yeah, so for me, I just realized it's it's the most valuable resource, which it's the most valuable resource, which it's the most valuable resource, which we've always said. Everybody says that, we've always said. Everybody says that, we've always said. Everybody says that, but it's also the most vulnerable. Um but it's also the most vulnerable. Um but it's also the most vulnerable. Um and the world is getting really good at and the world is getting really good at and the world is getting really good at taking your hours, and I wanted to get taking your hours, and I wanted to get taking your hours, and I wanted to get better at keeping my hours.

better at keeping my hours. better at keeping my hours. And so, there's, you know, there's a lot And so, there's, you know, there's a lot And so, there's, you know, there's a lot of money being spent to get my hours. of money being spent to get my hours. of money being spent to get my hours. Why don't I put some effort into keeping Why don't I put some effort into keeping Why don't I put some effort into keeping my hours and investing my hours and my hours and investing my hours and my hours and investing my hours and understanding where they're going and understanding where they're going and understanding where they're going and and why they're going there. and why they're going there. and why they're going there. Um so, for me, uh it keeps me dialed Um so, for me, uh it keeps me dialed Um so, for me, uh it keeps me dialed into my life. There's been seasons of my into my life. There's been seasons of my into my life. There's been seasons of my life, Carey, where I felt like a life, Carey, where I felt like a life, Carey, where I felt like a tourist, not a local. Meaning, I was tourist, not a local. Meaning, I was tourist, not a local. Meaning, I was kind of like, "Ah, whatever happens, kind of like, "Ah, whatever happens, kind of like, "Ah, whatever happens, whatever." Like, I wasn't taking whatever." Like, I wasn't taking whatever." Like, I wasn't taking personal responsibility. And so, part of personal responsibility. And so, part of personal responsibility. And so, part of being deliberate about my time was like, being deliberate about my time was like, being deliberate about my time was like, "No, I think if I take personal "No, I think if I take personal "No, I think if I take personal responsibility, I'm going to discover responsibility, I'm going to discover responsibility, I'm going to discover some amazing things revealed in this some amazing things revealed in this some amazing things revealed in this experiment. I'm going to learn some experiment. I'm going to learn some experiment. I'm going to learn some things about myself. I'm going to you things about myself. I'm going to you things about myself. I'm going to you know, like, one of you you always say know, like, one of you you always say know, like, one of you you always say like, 'What's the new thing you're like, 'What's the new thing you're like, 'What's the new thing you're trying?' Like, last year I kept an trying?' Like, last year I kept an trying?' Like, last year I kept an owner's manual. So, for a solid year, owner's manual. So, for a solid year, owner's manual. So, for a solid year, every month, every day, I would write every month, every day, I would write every month, every day, I would write down things that made me perform my down things that made me perform my down things that made me perform my best. Cuz none of us are born with like, best. Cuz none of us are born with like, best. Cuz none of us are born with like, how to be Carey owner's manual, or how how to be Carey owner's manual, or how how to be Carey owner's manual, or how to be Jon Acuff. So, I just started to be Jon Acuff. So, I just started to be Jon Acuff. So, I just started paying attention, and Carey, it was paying attention, and Carey, it was paying attention, and Carey, it was small things, it was big things, it was small things, it was big things, it was small things, it was big things, it was insignificant things, but in essence, it insignificant things, but in essence, it insignificant things, but in essence, it creates this like, "Hey, remember."

creates this like, "Hey, remember." creates this like, "Hey, remember." Like, and then I can feed it into AI and Like, and then I can feed it into AI and Like, and then I can feed it into AI and go, "Make this situational." And so, go, "Make this situational." And so, go, "Make this situational." And so, then I have a year worth of here's how then I have a year worth of here's how then I have a year worth of here's how you function best at an airport. Little you function best at an airport. Little you function best at an airport. Little things, dude. Like, "Hey, the far left things, dude. Like, "Hey, the far left things, dude. Like, "Hey, the far left line at TSA is where the employees line at TSA is where the employees line at TSA is where the employees enter, and they get to cut you. Don't go enter, and they get to cut you. Don't go enter, and they get to cut you. Don't go to that one. You keep going to that one to that one. You keep going to that one to that one. You keep going to that one and every time you do you're like, and every time you do you're like, and every time you do you're like, "What's the There's like 19 Emirates "What's the There's like 19 Emirates "What's the There's like 19 Emirates flight attendants that just rolled flight attendants that just rolled flight attendants that just rolled through here like fashion models?" And through here like fashion models?" And through here like fashion models?" And I'm waiting like Little things like that I'm waiting like Little things like that I'm waiting like Little things like that >> dude. It's the far left line. Yep. >> dude. It's the far left line. Yep. >> dude. It's the far left line. Yep. >> Yeah, to big things like Carrie I >> Yeah, to big things like Carrie I >> Yeah, to big things like Carrie I realized the other day somebody asked me realized the other day somebody asked me realized the other day somebody asked me how my marriage is going. I go, "My how my marriage is going. I go, "My how my marriage is going. I go, "My marriage goes amazing when I don't add marriage goes amazing when I don't add marriage goes amazing when I don't add you idiot to the end of sentences." you idiot to the end of sentences." you idiot to the end of sentences." Jenny has said to me. Jenny has said to me. Jenny has said to me. When I as a husband when she goes, "Age, When I as a husband when she goes, "Age, When I as a husband when she goes, "Age, you remember your umbrella?" And I add you remember your umbrella?" And I add you remember your umbrella?" And I add you idiot or cuz you always forget you idiot or cuz you always forget you idiot or cuz you always forget umbrellas, my reaction is like, "I'm the umbrellas, my reaction is like, "I'm the umbrellas, my reaction is like, "I'm the king of umbrellas. What are you even king of umbrellas. What are you even king of umbrellas. What are you even talking about? I make umbrellas." Like talking about? I make umbrellas." Like talking about? I make umbrellas." Like and all of a sudden I overreact in anger and all of a sudden I overreact in anger and all of a sudden I overreact in anger because I've added words Jenny didn't because I've added words Jenny didn't because I've added words Jenny didn't say. So I put that in my owner's manual. say. So I put that in my owner's manual. say. So I put that in my owner's manual. So like for me, I think you should be So like for me, I think you should be So like for me, I think you should be wildly curious about yourself because wildly curious about yourself because wildly curious about yourself because you're the one you spend the most time you're the one you spend the most time you're the one you spend the most time with. You also have the most impact over with. You also have the most impact over with. You also have the most impact over yourself. Like I want to be like I put yourself. Like I want to be like I put yourself. Like I want to be like I put in procrastination proof. I'm the best in procrastination proof. I'm the best in procrastination proof. I'm the best Johnny Icov salesman in the world. Like Johnny Icov salesman in the world. Like Johnny Icov salesman in the world. Like that's one of my jobs. I'm selling my that's one of my jobs. I'm selling my that's one of my jobs. I'm selling my future to my present. And so I'm going, future to my present. And so I'm going, future to my present. And so I'm going, "What do I want the future to look like?

"What do I want the future to look like? "What do I want the future to look like? How do I get there?" So dude, that's to How do I get there?" So dude, that's to How do I get there?" So dude, that's to me that's what the hours was. That's me that's what the hours was. That's me that's what the hours was. That's what, you know, an owner's manual is. what, you know, an owner's manual is. what, you know, an owner's manual is. Every year I'm trying something new to Every year I'm trying something new to Every year I'm trying something new to go, "How do I invest in self-awareness? go, "How do I invest in self-awareness? go, "How do I invest in self-awareness? How do I fix a problem that I get to How do I fix a problem that I get to How do I fix a problem that I get to share with a lot of people? How do I share with a lot of people? How do I share with a lot of people? How do I stay connected?" Like I, you know, I'm stay connected?" Like I, you know, I'm stay connected?" Like I, you know, I'm not going to I don't want to be an not going to I don't want to be an not going to I don't want to be an 80-year-old whose life progressively got 80-year-old whose life progressively got 80-year-old whose life progressively got grumpier or progressively got harder. grumpier or progressively got harder. grumpier or progressively got harder. Like I feel like we get to move from Like I feel like we get to move from Like I feel like we get to move from glory to glory to glory to glory and I glory to glory to glory to glory and I glory to glory to glory to glory and I want to be active in that process. want to be active in that process. want to be active in that process. I think that's such a good note to self I think that's such a good note to self I think that's such a good note to self and I think that goes back to and I think that goes back to and I think that goes back to what we talked about earlier. It's what we talked about earlier. It's what we talked about earlier. It's easier to find It's easy to find a easier to find It's easy to find a easier to find It's easy to find a pattern of success, set it and forget it pattern of success, set it and forget it pattern of success, set it and forget it and you kind of cruise into the sunset and you kind of cruise into the sunset and you kind of cruise into the sunset and you just get worse every year. Air and you just get worse every year. Air and you just get worse every year. Air just slowly leaks from the tires. Well, just slowly leaks from the tires. Well, just slowly leaks from the tires. Well, then look at all the people we know that then look at all the people we know that then look at all the people we know that have that's happened. Like you and I have that's happened. Like you and I have that's happened. Like you and I could have a whole episode where it was could have a whole episode where it was could have a whole episode where it was like leaders who fell and the things like leaders who fell and the things like leaders who fell and the things that like none of them started there.

that like none of them started there. that like none of them started there. None of them were like, "I want to blow None of them were like, "I want to blow None of them were like, "I want to blow it all up. I want it to like" it was it all up. I want it to like" it was it all up. I want it to like" it was small little decisions. It was small small little decisions. It was small small little decisions. It was small little gray areas. It was small little little gray areas. It was small little little gray areas. It was small little moments. And so I don't want to do that. moments. And so I don't want to do that. moments. And so I don't want to do that. Like I don't want to So part of it Like I don't want to So part of it Like I don't want to So part of it hours, exercise is like dialing it in to hours, exercise is like dialing it in to hours, exercise is like dialing it in to go like here's the best way I perform go like here's the best way I perform go like here's the best way I perform and then and I learn a lot about my and then and I learn a lot about my and then and I learn a lot about my mistakes and there's there's a ton of mistakes and there's there's a ton of mistakes and there's there's a ton of stuff I do wrong, but I'm like how do I stuff I do wrong, but I'm like how do I stuff I do wrong, but I'm like how do I how do I be present how do I be present how do I be present to who I am and how I perform so that I to who I am and how I perform so that I to who I am and how I perform so that I can continue I don't want to learn the can continue I don't want to learn the can continue I don't want to learn the same lesson 400 times. I've I've done same lesson 400 times. I've I've done same lesson 400 times. I've I've done that. It's annoying. Like I want to that. It's annoying. Like I want to that. It's annoying. Like I want to learn it a couple times and I'm 50, so I learn it a couple times and I'm 50, so I learn it a couple times and I'm 50, so I have the patience to look at it and have the patience to look at it and have the patience to look at it and review it and be deliberate about it. review it and be deliberate about it. review it and be deliberate about it. Like the 20-year-old me wouldn't have Like the 20-year-old me wouldn't have Like the 20-year-old me wouldn't have done any of this, but the 50-year-old me done any of this, but the 50-year-old me done any of this, but the 50-year-old me like I always say I wish I had like I always say I wish I had like I always say I wish I had the the I wish the 20-year-old me's the the I wish the 20-year-old me's the the I wish the 20-year-old me's metabolism had the 50-year-old me's work metabolism had the 50-year-old me's work metabolism had the 50-year-old me's work ethic. Like that would I would have been ethic. Like that would I would have been ethic. Like that would I would have been unstoppable, dude. Like I would have unstoppable, dude. Like I would have unstoppable, dude. Like I would have been in the gym and reading books and been in the gym and reading books and been in the gym and reading books and talking to mentors and being humble and talking to mentors and being humble and talking to mentors and being humble and all the stuff, but like that's just not all the stuff, but like that's just not all the stuff, but like that's just not how it worked and now that I'm 50, I how it worked and now that I'm 50, I how it worked and now that I'm 50, I don't want to waste a second.

don't want to waste a second. don't want to waste a second. No, and and the thing that I like like I No, and and the thing that I like like I No, and and the thing that I like like I thinking back there are people who blow thinking back there are people who blow thinking back there are people who blow up their lives at a certain stage up their lives at a certain stage up their lives at a certain stage because they just let it all the chance, because they just let it all the chance, because they just let it all the chance, but then there's also and this is what I but then there's also and this is what I but then there's also and this is what I saw when I was like 30 getting into saw when I was like 30 getting into saw when I was like 30 getting into ministry, I saw people your age and my ministry, I saw people your age and my ministry, I saw people your age and my age who basically just started phoning age who basically just started phoning age who basically just started phoning it in like at some point. There's this it in like at some point. There's this it in like at some point. There's this slow leak of air from their tires and slow leak of air from their tires and slow leak of air from their tires and >> What do you What encouraged them to >> What do you What encouraged them to >> What do you What encouraged them to phone it in? phone it in? phone it in? I don't know. I wonder if they just got I don't know. I wonder if they just got I don't know. I wonder if they just got bored, whether it was like they found bored, whether it was like they found bored, whether it was like they found their pattern set it and forget it. This their pattern set it and forget it. This their pattern set it and forget it. This works. This is enough, works. This is enough, works. This is enough, but it terrified me. Like when I was 30, but it terrified me. Like when I was 30, but it terrified me. Like when I was 30, I'm like I'm like I'm like and that's one of the reasons I tapped and that's one of the reasons I tapped and that's one of the reasons I tapped out as a lead pastor at 50. It's like, out as a lead pastor at 50. It's like, out as a lead pastor at 50. It's like, how does this happen? Well, I made it how does this happen? Well, I made it how does this happen? Well, I made it through my 50s and I don't think I'm through my 50s and I don't think I'm through my 50s and I don't think I'm quite tapping out on all fronts. So, you quite tapping out on all fronts. So, you quite tapping out on all fronts. So, you know, that's good. But what I see in a know, that's good. But what I see in a know, that's good. But what I see in a lot of my friends who are at your stage, lot of my friends who are at your stage, lot of my friends who are at your stage, I have a lot of friends who are a few I have a lot of friends who are a few I have a lot of friends who are a few years younger, years younger, years younger, is you reach that point in your 40s or is you reach that point in your 40s or is you reach that point in your 40s or 50s where you're like, all right, I'm 50s where you're like, all right, I'm 50s where you're like, all right, I'm stepping on the gas. Not because you've stepping on the gas. Not because you've stepping on the gas. Not because you've got some boyhood hood wound that you've got some boyhood hood wound that you've got some boyhood hood wound that you've done all that hard work. I know John done all that hard work. I know John done all that hard work. I know John well enough. You've done but just well enough. You've done but just well enough. You've done but just because it's like life is exciting. We because it's like life is exciting. We because it's like life is exciting. We have a gift to steward.

have a gift to steward. have a gift to steward. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Yeah, and that's what I'm measuring. Yeah, and that's what I'm measuring. Yeah, and that's what I'm measuring. That's the like and I did do that stuff. That's the like and I did do that stuff. That's the like and I did do that stuff. Like in my 30s and 40s I could go back. Like in my 30s and 40s I could go back. Like in my 30s and 40s I could go back. I can go, oh, that was cuz you needed I can go, oh, that was cuz you needed I can go, oh, that was cuz you needed people to know, like you like to be a people to know, like you like to be a people to know, like you like to be a writer at some point because I like writer at some point because I like writer at some point because I like telling people I was a writer. That was telling people I was a writer. That was telling people I was a writer. That was for the airplane conversation. We go, for the airplane conversation. We go, for the airplane conversation. We go, oh, what do I do? I write books. No way. oh, what do I do? I write books. No way. oh, what do I do? I write books. No way. And now I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah. We did And now I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah. We did And now I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah. We did that. We don't have to do that anymore. that. We don't have to do that anymore. that. We don't have to do that anymore. Like that's great. Like we can start Like that's great. Like we can start Like that's great. Like we can start full. Like the day can start full. Like full. Like the day can start full. Like full. Like the day can start full. Like who you are and what you like, you're who you are and what you like, you're who you are and what you like, you're already full. Like we don't need to go, already full. Like we don't need to go, already full. Like we don't need to go, so let's try something else. But yeah, I so let's try something else. But yeah, I so let's try something else. But yeah, I I don't know. I just I I feel like it's I don't know. I just I I feel like it's I don't know. I just I I feel like it's really exciting. It's really challenging really exciting. It's really challenging really exciting. It's really challenging and I I like a challenge. I want to be and I I like a challenge. I want to be and I I like a challenge. I want to be challenged. challenged. challenged. Um, and you know, I always say like the Um, and you know, I always say like the Um, and you know, I always say like the only reason people ever leave their only reason people ever leave their only reason people ever leave their comfort zone is that something outside comfort zone is that something outside comfort zone is that something outside it is worth being uncomfortable for. So, it is worth being uncomfortable for. So, it is worth being uncomfortable for. So, I think sometimes people get stuck I think sometimes people get stuck I think sometimes people get stuck because they don't have a thing outside because they don't have a thing outside because they don't have a thing outside it where they go, oh, I can make that it where they go, oh, I can make that it where they go, oh, I can make that amount of money or I could help that amount of money or I could help that amount of money or I could help that amount of people or I could build that amount of people or I could build that amount of people or I could build that or try that or scale that. And and no or try that or scale that. And and no or try that or scale that. And and no one the challenge is no one as an adult one the challenge is no one as an adult one the challenge is no one as an adult will make you do hard things except will make you do hard things except will make you do hard things except yourself. Like that's the reality is yourself. Like that's the reality is yourself. Like that's the reality is like you have to kind of be the one that like you have to kind of be the one that like you have to kind of be the one that goes, like in a marriage a spouse might goes, like in a marriage a spouse might goes, like in a marriage a spouse might go, I see something in you I'd love to go, I see something in you I'd love to go, I see something in you I'd love to bring it out. Like and work might bring it out. Like and work might bring it out. Like and work might challenge you a little bit. But those challenge you a little bit. But those challenge you a little bit. But those real like heart go all in adventures, real like heart go all in adventures, real like heart go all in adventures, Like that's where it's it's it's a you Like that's where it's it's it's a you Like that's where it's it's it's a you versus you conversation and I don't, you versus you conversation and I don't, you versus you conversation and I don't, you know, I don't want to be looking back at know, I don't want to be looking back at know, I don't want to be looking back at 60 and go, "Man, I really squandered the

60 and go, "Man, I really squandered the 60 and go, "Man, I really squandered the 10 years." Like I do I do sense that 10 years." Like I do I do sense that 10 years." Like I do I do sense that like like like I don't have a like 70 left of these. I don't have a like 70 left of these. I don't have a like 70 left of these. Like that that I can like I have a Like that that I can like I have a Like that that I can like I have a I have an X amount of So, I want to be I have an X amount of So, I want to be I have an X amount of So, I want to be deliberate about how I spend them and deliberate about how I spend them and deliberate about how I spend them and with the people I spend them with. Like with the people I spend them with. Like with the people I spend them with. Like I'm honored I get to talk to you once a I'm honored I get to talk to you once a I'm honored I get to talk to you once a month. Like that relationship's been so month. Like that relationship's been so month. Like that relationship's been so fantastic and I I learn so much and fantastic and I I learn so much and fantastic and I I learn so much and you're so generous with your time and you're so generous with your time and you're so generous with your time and like I want a lots of that and then I like I want a lots of that and then I like I want a lots of that and then I want to pass that to somebody else that want to pass that to somebody else that want to pass that to somebody else that didn't Like here's a lesson I learned didn't Like here's a lesson I learned didn't Like here's a lesson I learned the other day, Carrie, just off topic. the other day, Carrie, just off topic. the other day, Carrie, just off topic. So, I do this morning workout that I'm So, I do this morning workout that I'm So, I do this morning workout that I'm in love with called F3. And F3 is a free in love with called F3. And F3 is a free in love with called F3. And F3 is a free men's workout. It's 5:30 in the morning, men's workout. It's 5:30 in the morning, men's workout. It's 5:30 in the morning, rain or shine, held outside, cold or rain or shine, held outside, cold or rain or shine, held outside, cold or hot. And it's peer-led, it's all hot. And it's peer-led, it's all hot. And it's peer-led, it's all volunteers, and there's probably 1,500 volunteers, and there's probably 1,500 volunteers, and there's probably 1,500 locations around the country. And a locations around the country. And a locations around the country. And a neighbor invited me. neighbor invited me. neighbor invited me. And what I learned recently, so like And what I learned recently, so like And what I learned recently, so like we're all working and if you have like we're all working and if you have like we're all working and if you have like an exercise where it's like we got to do an exercise where it's like we got to do an exercise where it's like we got to do 100 push-ups, 200 sit-ups, 300 air 100 push-ups, 200 sit-ups, 300 air 100 push-ups, 200 sit-ups, 300 air squats, whoever finishes first, like the squats, whoever finishes first, like the squats, whoever finishes first, like the strongest people finish first. The strongest people finish first. The strongest people finish first. The people in the best shape, they come and people in the best shape, they come and people in the best shape, they come and help the people who haven't yet. So, help the people who haven't yet. So, help the people who haven't yet. So, what will happen is a guy will come over what will happen is a guy will come over what will happen is a guy will come over to you and go, "Hey, I'm all done with to you and go, "Hey, I'm all done with to you and go, "Hey, I'm all done with my set. Can I give you 20 push-ups?" And my set. Can I give you 20 push-ups?" And my set. Can I give you 20 push-ups?" And then you get to be humble enough to then you get to be humble enough to then you get to be humble enough to accept them. And what I learned in that accept them. And what I learned in that accept them. And what I learned in that moment is the strongest have the most moment is the strongest have the most moment is the strongest have the most need to be generous. If you are If you need to be generous. If you are If you need to be generous. If you are If you are strong, you have to be generous. And are strong, you have to be generous. And are strong, you have to be generous. And then if you're not there yet, you have then if you're not there yet, you have then if you're not there yet, you have to be brave enough to to need that. And to be brave enough to to need that. And to be brave enough to to need that. And so like for me like, man, what a lesson so like for me like, man, what a lesson so like for me like, man, what a lesson for a for a man's heart to be willing to for a for a man's heart to be willing to for a for a man's heart to be willing to have another stranger go like, "Eric, I

have another stranger go like, "Eric, I have another stranger go like, "Eric, I did my push-ups faster than you. Can I did my push-ups faster than you. Can I did my push-ups faster than you. Can I do 10 more for you?" And remove and do 10 more for you?" And remove and do 10 more for you?" And remove and you're like for you to accept that. And you're like for you to accept that. And you're like for you to accept that. And so, that's what's fun to me. Like at 50, so, that's what's fun to me. Like at 50, so, that's what's fun to me. Like at 50, I'm like, "Oh, man, I didn't even know I'm like, "Oh, man, I didn't even know I'm like, "Oh, man, I didn't even know that." Like where am I strong that I that." Like where am I strong that I that." Like where am I strong that I need to share with other people. Like need to share with other people. Like need to share with other people. Like speaking or writing or whatever. Like speaking or writing or whatever. Like speaking or writing or whatever. Like how can I pass that to somebody else? I how can I pass that to somebody else? I how can I pass that to somebody else? I didn't know that lesson that clearly didn't know that lesson that clearly didn't know that lesson that clearly until one morning somebody who's in until one morning somebody who's in until one morning somebody who's in better shape than me said, "Hey, I got better shape than me said, "Hey, I got better shape than me said, "Hey, I got 30 sit-ups for you." And I received them 30 sit-ups for you." And I received them 30 sit-ups for you." And I received them and was able to. Like that stuff is just and was able to. Like that stuff is just and was able to. Like that stuff is just so fun to me. This episode is brought to so fun to me. This episode is brought to so fun to me. This episode is brought to you by The Art of Leadership Live. There you by The Art of Leadership Live. There you by The Art of Leadership Live. There is something AI cannot do. Guess what? is something AI cannot do. Guess what? is something AI cannot do. Guess what? It can't replace the experience and the It can't replace the experience and the It can't replace the experience and the power of being in a room with the right power of being in a room with the right power of being in a room with the right people. Sure, you can tap AI on the people. Sure, you can tap AI on the people. Sure, you can tap AI on the shoulder at work when you need to get shoulder at work when you need to get shoulder at work when you need to get something done today, something done today, something done today, but make sure you're intentional about but make sure you're intentional about but make sure you're intentional about spending time with actual people who can spending time with actual people who can spending time with actual people who can push you and can help you grow push you and can help you grow push you and can help you grow spiritually, emotionally, and as a spiritually, emotionally, and as a spiritually, emotionally, and as a leader. You know that church is more leader. You know that church is more leader. You know that church is more powerful in person with others.

powerful in person with others. powerful in person with others. Community groups work really well when Community groups work really well when Community groups work really well when they're tight-knit, and conferences they're tight-knit, and conferences they're tight-knit, and conferences become invaluable when they focus on become invaluable when they focus on become invaluable when they focus on connecting you not just with content, connecting you not just with content, connecting you not just with content, but with other like-minded leaders. So, but with other like-minded leaders. So, but with other like-minded leaders. So, on that note, I want to invite you to on that note, I want to invite you to on that note, I want to invite you to join me in Nashville, Tennessee this join me in Nashville, Tennessee this join me in Nashville, Tennessee this September for 3 days of deep growth, September for 3 days of deep growth, September for 3 days of deep growth, trusted guidance, and fresh vision for trusted guidance, and fresh vision for trusted guidance, and fresh vision for what's next. It's all happening at The what's next. It's all happening at The what's next. It's all happening at The Art of Leadership Live. It's not another Art of Leadership Live. It's not another Art of Leadership Live. It's not another conference where you sit and listen for conference where you sit and listen for conference where you sit and listen for 8 hours a day to a talking head. 8 hours a day to a talking head. 8 hours a day to a talking head. This is interactive. It's practical. We This is interactive. It's practical. We This is interactive. It's practical. We cap the attendance, and it's built cap the attendance, and it's built cap the attendance, and it's built around the kind of conversations that around the kind of conversations that around the kind of conversations that actually move leaders forward. In fact, actually move leaders forward. In fact, actually move leaders forward. In fact, my favorite part of last year was how my favorite part of last year was how my favorite part of last year was how amazing the leaders in the room were. We amazing the leaders in the room were. We amazing the leaders in the room were. We had great conversations, and it was had great conversations, and it was had great conversations, and it was actually a very deep emotional actually a very deep emotional actually a very deep emotional connection. And that's why I'm very connection. And that's why I'm very connection. And that's why I'm very excited about this year. We're going to excited about this year. We're going to excited about this year. We're going to spend 3 days digging together into spend 3 days digging together into spend 3 days digging together into what's next for your leadership, for what's next for your leadership, for what's next for your leadership, for your church, and for the future of your church, and for the future of your church, and for the future of ministry. We're going to deep dive into ministry. We're going to deep dive into ministry. We're going to deep dive into a project I've been working on for 2 a project I've been working on for 2 a project I've been working on for 2 years about AI and the future church. I years about AI and the future church. I years about AI and the future church. I got a book coming out about it that got a book coming out about it that got a book coming out about it that releases 1 week before the event. We're releases 1 week before the event. We're releases 1 week before the event. We're going to go deep on AI and the future going to go deep on AI and the future going to go deep on AI and the future church, how it's going to disrupt and church, how it's going to disrupt and church, how it's going to disrupt and impact everything. Spaces limited. And impact everything. Spaces limited. And impact everything. Spaces limited. And it's your very last chance today to save it's your very last chance today to save it's your very last chance today to save early with early bird pricing. It ends early with early bird pricing. It ends early with early bird pricing. It ends April 30th. So don't delay. Head on over April 30th. So don't delay. Head on over April 30th. So don't delay. Head on over to the art of leadership live.com to the art of leadership live.com to the art of leadership live.com or click the link in the description of or click the link in the description of or click the link in the description of this episode to secure your spot and the

this episode to secure your spot and the this episode to secure your spot and the best pricing before April 30th. That's best pricing before April 30th. That's best pricing before April 30th. That's the art of leadership live.com. I'd love the art of leadership live.com. I'd love the art of leadership live.com. I'd love to see you there. Okay, so let's talk to see you there. Okay, so let's talk to see you there. Okay, so let's talk about procrastination cuz I think a lot about procrastination cuz I think a lot about procrastination cuz I think a lot of people are going to be tuning in to of people are going to be tuning in to of people are going to be tuning in to learn about procrastination. So one of learn about procrastination. So one of learn about procrastination. So one of the things just as confession time for the things just as confession time for the things just as confession time for me and then I want to hear your me and then I want to hear your me and then I want to hear your confession is you look at, you know, confession is you look at, you know, confession is you look at, you know, John Acuff, it's like 11 books and John Acuff, it's like 11 books and John Acuff, it's like 11 books and speaks all over the world and speaks to speaks all over the world and speaks to speaks all over the world and speaks to Lexus and Range Rover. Lexus and Range Rover. Lexus and Range Rover. Uh, you know, I'm the same year is Uh, you know, I'm the same year is Uh, you know, I'm the same year is amazing. amazing. amazing. I people always say to me, you are so I people always say to me, you are so I people always say to me, you are so disciplined and I'm like, you have no disciplined and I'm like, you have no disciplined and I'm like, you have no idea how undisciplined I am. idea how undisciplined I am. idea how undisciplined I am. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> I'm like >> I'm like >> I'm like everything in my life is a work around everything in my life is a work around everything in my life is a work around to deal with my fundamental laziness. to deal with my fundamental laziness. to deal with my fundamental laziness. And I don't think I turned a single And I don't think I turned a single And I don't think I turned a single undergrad paper in on time. I was always undergrad paper in on time. I was always undergrad paper in on time. I was always looking for extensions and that was looking for extensions and that was looking for extensions and that was because of procrastination. because of procrastination. because of procrastination. And you know, so I've I've dealt with it And you know, so I've I've dealt with it And you know, so I've I've dealt with it and I've mastered it in my work, but and I've mastered it in my work, but and I've mastered it in my work, but like workouts still continue to be my like workouts still continue to be my like workouts still continue to be my nemesis. It's like, yeah, I'm going to nemesis. It's like, yeah, I'm going to nemesis. It's like, yeah, I'm going to do three or four this week. do three or four this week. do three or four this week. You know, all those things that that it You know, all those things that that it You know, all those things that that it still chases me. So that's the natural still chases me. So that's the natural still chases me. So that's the natural Carey. What is the natural John?

Carey. What is the natural John? Carey. What is the natural John? Yeah, the natural John is super Yeah, the natural John is super Yeah, the natural John is super pessimistic, pessimistic, pessimistic, super cynical, um, super cynical, um, super cynical, um, pretty anxious, pretty anxious, pretty anxious, um, definitely, um, definitely, um, definitely, uh, like uh, like uh, like not not naturally bent toward this. I not not naturally bent toward this. I not not naturally bent toward this. I the reason I've written 11 books kind of the reason I've written 11 books kind of the reason I've written 11 books kind of that are, you know, about mindset and that are, you know, about mindset and that are, you know, about mindset and goals is that I I have a lot of things goals is that I I have a lot of things goals is that I I have a lot of things that I'm I'm on. Like I didn't write that I'm I'm on. Like I didn't write that I'm I'm on. Like I didn't write them because I was them because I was them because I was >> I'm not writing them because I'm >> I'm not writing them because I'm >> I'm not writing them because I'm naturally good at them. I like I had to naturally good at them. I like I had to naturally good at them. I like I had to develop these tools because I needed develop these tools because I needed develop these tools because I needed these tools. Like I just like I'm I'm a these tools. Like I just like I'm I'm a these tools. Like I just like I'm I'm a procrastinator by nature, so I had to procrastinator by nature, so I had to procrastinator by nature, so I had to go, "Okay, well, can I figure out go, "Okay, well, can I figure out go, "Okay, well, can I figure out procrastination and can I figure out it procrastination and can I figure out it procrastination and can I figure out it in a way that I'm able to actually in a way that I'm able to actually in a way that I'm able to actually execute as many times as I want on the execute as many times as I want on the execute as many times as I want on the things I want?" Great. Now, do other things I want?" Great. Now, do other things I want?" Great. Now, do other people have that problem? Oh, they do? people have that problem? Oh, they do? people have that problem? Oh, they do? Can I frame it in a way that's sticky Can I frame it in a way that's sticky Can I frame it in a way that's sticky and easy and encouraging? So, like the and easy and encouraging? So, like the and easy and encouraging? So, like the procrastination proof book has 71 procrastination proof book has 71 procrastination proof book has 71 chapters because they're short chapters chapters because they're short chapters chapters because they're short chapters because if you write a 400-page book because if you write a 400-page book because if you write a 400-page book about procrastination, you're not a about procrastination, you're not a about procrastination, you're not a procrastinator. You're a monster. If you procrastinator. You're a monster. If you procrastinator. You're a monster. If you have a 90-page of notes at the back of have a 90-page of notes at the back of have a 90-page of notes at the back of your procrastination book, you're your procrastination book, you're your procrastination book, you're killing us. That's not That's Jane killing us. That's not That's Jane killing us. That's not That's Jane Goodall writing about monkeys. I'm a Goodall writing about monkeys. I'm a Goodall writing about monkeys. I'm a monkey writing about monkeys. So, like monkey writing about monkeys. So, like monkey writing about monkeys. So, like I'm in the same trenches you are and I I'm in the same trenches you are and I I'm in the same trenches you are and I think that makes it easier for people to think that makes it easier for people to think that makes it easier for people to go, "Oh, I'll trust that. That's true."

go, "Oh, I'll trust that. That's true." go, "Oh, I'll trust that. That's true." It also makes it true. It's not It also makes it true. It's not It also makes it true. It's not hypothetical. It's like, "Hey, I It took hypothetical. It's like, "Hey, I It took hypothetical. It's like, "Hey, I It took me 34 years to write my first book, but me 34 years to write my first book, but me 34 years to write my first book, but then when I dialed in procrastination, I then when I dialed in procrastination, I then when I dialed in procrastination, I wrote 11 more. Here's how I look at wrote 11 more. Here's how I look at wrote 11 more. Here's how I look at procrastination. Here's how you can, procrastination. Here's how you can, procrastination. Here's how you can, too. You can actually get way more done too. You can actually get way more done too. You can actually get way more done than you think even if you're naturally than you think even if you're naturally than you think even if you're naturally a procrastinator." a procrastinator." a procrastinator." Yeah, so you talk about responsible me Yeah, so you talk about responsible me Yeah, so you talk about responsible me and procrastination me, procrastinating and procrastination me, procrastinating and procrastination me, procrastinating me a little bit in in the book. What are me a little bit in in the book. What are me a little bit in in the book. What are What are the two Johns? What is that What are the two Johns? What is that What are the two Johns? What is that like? like? like? Well, so the big one the first one I Well, so the big one the first one I Well, so the big one the first one I realized was night John and day John. realized was night John and day John. realized was night John and day John. So, night John would stay up late and So, night John would stay up late and So, night John would stay up late and like make bad food decisions and then like make bad food decisions and then like make bad food decisions and then morning John would have a really hard morning John would have a really hard morning John would have a really hard day. And morning John would be like, day. And morning John would be like, day. And morning John would be like, "You screwed me again, night John." And "You screwed me again, night John." And "You screwed me again, night John." And now their relationship is way better. now their relationship is way better. now their relationship is way better. So, night John is a great decider. So, So, night John is a great decider. So, So, night John is a great decider. So, at the end of the day, at night, I'll at the end of the day, at night, I'll at the end of the day, at night, I'll decide what I'm doing tomorrow and I'll decide what I'm doing tomorrow and I'll decide what I'm doing tomorrow and I'll lay it out and I'll put it in my lay it out and I'll put it in my lay it out and I'll put it in my calendar and I Here's what we're doing. calendar and I Here's what we're doing. calendar and I Here's what we're doing. Morning John is a great doer. If I wake Morning John is a great doer. If I wake Morning John is a great doer. If I wake up Carrie on a Monday morning at 8:00 up Carrie on a Monday morning at 8:00 up Carrie on a Monday morning at 8:00 a.m. without a plan, overwhelming. The a.m. without a plan, overwhelming. The a.m. without a plan, overwhelming. The phone's already ringing, emails already phone's already ringing, emails already phone's already ringing, emails already coming, people already texting me. Oh my coming, people already texting me. Oh my coming, people already texting me. Oh my gosh, and I don't have a plan. But if I gosh, and I don't have a plan. But if I gosh, and I don't have a plan. But if I wake up with a plan, I'll run through a wake up with a plan, I'll run through a wake up with a plan, I'll run through a wall. Like morning John will run through wall. Like morning John will run through wall. Like morning John will run through a wall if he knows which wall. So once I a wall if he knows which wall. So once I a wall if he knows which wall. So once I saw that relationship like, oh, I'm saw that relationship like, oh, I'm saw that relationship like, oh, I'm really good at planning at 5:00 p.m.

really good at planning at 5:00 p.m. really good at planning at 5:00 p.m. when no one's kind of bothered me and when no one's kind of bothered me and when no one's kind of bothered me and night John's a good decider, morning night John's a good decider, morning night John's a good decider, morning John's a good doer, then I just started John's a good doer, then I just started John's a good doer, then I just started to expand it out and I was like, oh, how to expand it out and I was like, oh, how to expand it out and I was like, oh, how can Monday me hook up Friday me? Like can Monday me hook up Friday me? Like can Monday me hook up Friday me? Like those are connected. So like what can I those are connected. So like what can I those are connected. So like what can I do on Monday that makes Friday easier? do on Monday that makes Friday easier? do on Monday that makes Friday easier? So then my whole my whole view of So then my whole my whole view of So then my whole my whole view of planning became, how do I make tomorrow planning became, how do I make tomorrow planning became, how do I make tomorrow easy today? That's my soundtrack. How do easy today? That's my soundtrack. How do easy today? That's my soundtrack. How do I make tomorrow easy today? And that's a I make tomorrow easy today? And that's a I make tomorrow easy today? And that's a great definition of discipline, too. great definition of discipline, too. great definition of discipline, too. Like I want to be like you and I are Like I want to be like you and I are Like I want to be like you and I are similar in that I want to be a similar in that I want to be a similar in that I want to be a 70-year-old who can still run and is 70-year-old who can still run and is 70-year-old who can still run and is limber and doesn't have a hard time limber and doesn't have a hard time limber and doesn't have a hard time putting a suitcase over his head on a putting a suitcase over his head on a putting a suitcase over his head on a plane, whatever. So what are the things plane, whatever. So what are the things plane, whatever. So what are the things I need to do? That's a long future I need to do? That's a long future I need to do? That's a long future range, but hopefully that person exists. range, but hopefully that person exists. range, but hopefully that person exists. Like what do I need to do today to send Like what do I need to do today to send Like what do I need to do today to send that gift to that person? That to me is that gift to that person? That to me is that gift to that person? That to me is procrastination as a nutshell. You are procrastination as a nutshell. You are procrastination as a nutshell. You are stealing from future you. Every time you stealing from future you. Every time you stealing from future you. Every time you wait, you are stealing something very wait, you are stealing something very wait, you are stealing something very real. Doesn't feel real to you right real. Doesn't feel real to you right real. Doesn't feel real to you right now. You're stealing something real from now. You're stealing something real from now. You're stealing something real from the future you and I am constantly the future you and I am constantly the future you and I am constantly trying to hook up future me. I'm trying to hook up future me. I'm trying to hook up future me. I'm constantly trying to think about that constantly trying to think about that constantly trying to think about that person and go, "Ooh, your summer's going person and go, "Ooh, your summer's going person and go, "Ooh, your summer's going to be awesome cuz of the things that I to be awesome cuz of the things that I to be awesome cuz of the things that I did in the spring. Your Chris like I did in the spring. Your Chris like I did in the spring. Your Chris like I know you're going on vacation soon. I know you're going on vacation soon. I know you're going on vacation soon. I won't like I won't date it too much, but won't like I won't date it too much, but won't like I won't date it too much, but you are doing things that are going to you are doing things that are going to you are doing things that are going to make that vacation peaceful today. Like make that vacation peaceful today. Like make that vacation peaceful today. Like you are clearing work out of the way you are clearing work out of the way you are clearing work out of the way today, you're hooking up future you.

today, you're hooking up future you. today, you're hooking up future you. That's to me what procrastination is. That's to me what procrastination is. That's to me what procrastination is. Yeah. What Why do you think like are Yeah. What Why do you think like are Yeah. What Why do you think like are most people like you always study this most people like you always study this most people like you always study this stuff pretty in detail. Are most people stuff pretty in detail. Are most people stuff pretty in detail. Are most people do most of us have like a do most of us have like a do most of us have like a procrastinating side? Are some people procrastinating side? Are some people procrastinating side? Are some people just built or you like it's kind of like just built or you like it's kind of like just built or you like it's kind of like hey, welcome to the fallen world. Here hey, welcome to the fallen world. Here hey, welcome to the fallen world. Here we all are. Yeah, I mean I think some we all are. Yeah, I mean I think some we all are. Yeah, I mean I think some don't have the option that they have to don't have the option that they have to don't have the option that they have to be responsible. Like I have a friend be responsible. Like I have a friend be responsible. Like I have a friend whose parents died when he was I think whose parents died when he was I think whose parents died when he was I think he was 12 when they died and he had to he was 12 when they died and he had to he was 12 when they died and he had to kind of raise his brother foster homes kind of raise his brother foster homes kind of raise his brother foster homes all like he didn't have the option of of all like he didn't have the option of of all like he didn't have the option of of delaying things. He had to become an delaying things. He had to become an delaying things. He had to become an adult right away and do hard things. So adult right away and do hard things. So adult right away and do hard things. So I think some people lose the luxury of I think some people lose the luxury of I think some people lose the luxury of procrastination. Like where they don't procrastination. Like where they don't procrastination. Like where they don't you know they don't have it but I think you know they don't have it but I think you know they don't have it but I think most people would say if you ask most most people would say if you ask most most people would say if you ask most people do you procrastinate on things do people do you procrastinate on things do people do you procrastinate on things do you finish everything you start? know you finish everything you start? know you finish everything you start? know anybody go yeah, I'm constantly 100 for anybody go yeah, I'm constantly 100 for anybody go yeah, I'm constantly 100 for 100 everything I do. 100 everything I do. 100 everything I do. So I think it's a I think it's a problem So I think it's a I think it's a problem So I think it's a I think it's a problem and then again back to Instagram you and then again back to Instagram you and then again back to Instagram you have to understand the procrast have to understand the procrast have to understand the procrast procrastination is the only mindset procrastination is the only mindset procrastination is the only mindset issue that's well funded. So Instagram issue that's well funded. So Instagram issue that's well funded. So Instagram doesn't fund doesn't fund doesn't fund perfectionism. Netflix doesn't fund perfectionism. Netflix doesn't fund perfectionism. Netflix doesn't fund inner critic but they all fund inner critic but they all fund inner critic but they all fund procrastination. It's the most well procrastination. It's the most well procrastination. It's the most well funded mindset issue in the world and so funded mindset issue in the world and so funded mindset issue in the world and so if you ever go I just feel like I'm if you ever go I just feel like I'm if you ever go I just feel like I'm having a hard time doing the thing like having a hard time doing the thing like having a hard time doing the thing like give yourself some grace. Like give you give yourself some grace. Like give you give yourself some grace. Like give you like like like >> Everything is conspiring against you.

>> Everything is conspiring against you. >> Everything is conspiring against you. Everything is against you and so I'm Everything is against you and so I'm Everything is against you and so I'm like hey, I think there's a way to kind like hey, I think there's a way to kind like hey, I think there's a way to kind of even the odds. Here's the way to do of even the odds. Here's the way to do of even the odds. Here's the way to do that. Even in a world that's really busy that. Even in a world that's really busy that. Even in a world that's really busy even in a world that's really even in a world that's really even in a world that's really distracting you don't have to let distracting you don't have to let distracting you don't have to let procrastination procrastination procrastination win every time. win every time. win every time. So you described some traps like we all So you described some traps like we all So you described some traps like we all fall in we have a proclivity to a fall in we have a proclivity to a fall in we have a proclivity to a particular kind of procrastination. Can particular kind of procrastination. Can particular kind of procrastination. Can you out just so we all see ourselves in you out just so we all see ourselves in you out just so we all see ourselves in the mirror? I mean I've gotten a lot the mirror? I mean I've gotten a lot the mirror? I mean I've gotten a lot better. Our team works so far ahead. I better. Our team works so far ahead. I better. Our team works so far ahead. I was on a leadership team meeting and I was on a leadership team meeting and I was on a leadership team meeting and I just joked with our team that I'm pretty just joked with our team that I'm pretty just joked with our team that I'm pretty sure our podcast is done until August of sure our podcast is done until August of sure our podcast is done until August of 2028. I'm pretty sure we work that far 2028. I'm pretty sure we work that far 2028. I'm pretty sure we work that far ahead. Like they are ahead. Like they are ahead. Like they are >> will be so much greyer by the time this >> will be so much greyer by the time this >> will be so much greyer by the time this one actually comes out. I'll just be one actually comes out. I'll just be one actually comes out. I'll just be like, "Oh my like, "Oh my like, "Oh my Oh my gosh." They're insane and I have Oh my gosh." They're insane and I have Oh my gosh." They're insane and I have used back in the day when when this used back in the day when when this used back in the day when when this thing that I'm doing now was a blog, thing that I'm doing now was a blog, thing that I'm doing now was a blog, when it was a hobby and I was still a when it was a hobby and I was still a when it was a hobby and I was still a lead pastor, lead pastor, lead pastor, I love the adrenaline the adrenaline of I love the adrenaline the adrenaline of I love the adrenaline the adrenaline of a last-minute deadline. Like Monday, a last-minute deadline. Like Monday, a last-minute deadline. Like Monday, Wednesday, Friday were my writing days. Wednesday, Friday were my writing days. Wednesday, Friday were my writing days. I would get up at 5:00 in the morning, I would get up at 5:00 in the morning, I would get up at 5:00 in the morning, 4:45, and then before my day job being a 4:45, and then before my day job being a 4:45, and then before my day job being a pastor, I would go and write whatever pastor, I would go and write whatever pastor, I would go and write whatever was on my mind. I would publish it was on my mind. I would publish it was on my mind. I would publish it before breakfast and you know, sometimes before breakfast and you know, sometimes before breakfast and you know, sometimes fix the typos at lunch. Like it was kind fix the typos at lunch. Like it was kind fix the typos at lunch. Like it was kind of that real time, but that adrenaline of that real time, but that adrenaline of that real time, but that adrenaline really drove me. And I'm I'm saying that really drove me. And I'm I'm saying that really drove me. And I'm I'm saying that because we got a lot of pastors because we got a lot of pastors because we got a lot of pastors who are still in that pattern. It's who are still in that pattern. It's who are still in that pattern. It's like, you know, it's Thursday, the like, you know, it's Thursday, the like, you know, it's Thursday, the message isn't done, but wait, here comes message isn't done, but wait, here comes message isn't done, but wait, here comes Friday. Wait, it's Saturday. And then, Friday. Wait, it's Saturday. And then, Friday. Wait, it's Saturday. And then, you know, I really believe that ruins you know, I really believe that ruins you know, I really believe that ruins your whole team because nobody's resting your whole team because nobody's resting your whole team because nobody's resting well on the inside if the message isn't

well on the inside if the message isn't well on the inside if the message isn't done until Saturday night and then done until Saturday night and then done until Saturday night and then you're like, "Hey, we need new screens. you're like, "Hey, we need new screens. you're like, "Hey, we need new screens. We need this. We got to change the We need this. We got to change the We need this. We got to change the worship song and all that." So, I got worship song and all that." So, I got worship song and all that." So, I got out of that at church. I was working out of that at church. I was working out of that at church. I was working ahead for years before I stepped out of ahead for years before I stepped out of ahead for years before I stepped out of the lead pastor role, but there was a the lead pastor role, but there was a the lead pastor role, but there was a part that of me that was really like part that of me that was really like part that of me that was really like loving the last-minute stuff. And then loving the last-minute stuff. And then loving the last-minute stuff. And then when we did what you did, turn this into when we did what you did, turn this into when we did what you did, turn this into a team, a team, a team, teams like, "You can't be writing your teams like, "You can't be writing your teams like, "You can't be writing your posts like at 5:00 in the morning and posts like at 5:00 in the morning and posts like at 5:00 in the morning and publishing them. We got to go ahead. We publishing them. We got to go ahead. We publishing them. We got to go ahead. We got to get them approved." And so now got to get them approved." And so now got to get them approved." And so now I'm writing months in advance. But I I'm writing months in advance. But I I'm writing months in advance. But I just talk about that tension. Do you see just talk about that tension. Do you see just talk about that tension. Do you see it? And then what are the traps? The I it? And then what are the traps? The I it? And then what are the traps? The I guess there's four of them, right? Well, guess there's four of them, right? Well, guess there's four of them, right? Well, let's let's let's let's let's let's let's pause on that tension let's pause on that tension let's pause on that tension specifically. So, there's a common specifically. So, there's a common specifically. So, there's a common belief that I work best at the last belief that I work best at the last belief that I work best at the last minute. That's a common kind of broken minute. That's a common kind of broken minute. That's a common kind of broken soundtrack. That's my superpower, right? soundtrack. That's my superpower, right? soundtrack. That's my superpower, right? >> Yeah. They've studied that up and down >> Yeah. They've studied that up and down >> Yeah. They've studied that up and down and it's just not true. Like nobody and it's just not true. Like nobody and it's just not true. Like nobody nobody works best last second. What nobody works best last second. What nobody works best last second. What you're really saying there is this is you're really saying there is this is you're really saying there is this is the best solution I know. Like it's not the best solution I know. Like it's not the best solution I know. Like it's not the best. It's not you're at your best.

the best. It's not you're at your best. the best. It's not you're at your best. No one would honestly say, "If I have No one would honestly say, "If I have No one would honestly say, "If I have time to look at it a third time, I never time to look at it a third time, I never time to look at it a third time, I never find a mistake." No, you do. We all find find a mistake." No, you do. We all find find a mistake." No, you do. We all find mistakes. Or, "If I look at it again, I mistakes. Or, "If I look at it again, I mistakes. Or, "If I look at it again, I never have a new idea that makes it even never have a new idea that makes it even never have a new idea that makes it even better." You do. Like, your creativity better." You do. Like, your creativity better." You do. Like, your creativity is still there. It's not that you is still there. It's not that you is still there. It's not that you expended it. So, if you're a pastor, the expended it. So, if you're a pastor, the expended it. So, if you're a pastor, the reality is, if you gave yourself the reality is, if you gave yourself the reality is, if you gave yourself the breathing room, the time you look at it breathing room, the time you look at it breathing room, the time you look at it a third time, like 2 days later, it's a third time, like 2 days later, it's a third time, like 2 days later, it's going to be better. You're going to find going to be better. You're going to find going to be better. You're going to find something you go, "I wouldn't say it something you go, "I wouldn't say it something you go, "I wouldn't say it that way. Now that I've ruminated on that way. Now that I've ruminated on that way. Now that I've ruminated on like thought about it a little while, like thought about it a little while, like thought about it a little while, here's how I'd say it." So, it's not here's how I'd say it." So, it's not here's how I'd say it." So, it's not There's nobody who does their absolute There's nobody who does their absolute There's nobody who does their absolute finished product best work at the last finished product best work at the last finished product best work at the last second. Because everyone's work gets second. Because everyone's work gets second. Because everyone's work gets better with an iteration. It doesn't better with an iteration. It doesn't better with an iteration. It doesn't matter what it is. Your work is better matter what it is. Your work is better matter what it is. Your work is better with an iteration. The traps are with an iteration. The traps are with an iteration. The traps are actually based on the solution. So, the actually based on the solution. So, the actually based on the solution. So, the solution, like the framework we teach in solution, like the framework we teach in solution, like the framework we teach in the book, is dream, plan, do, review. If the book, is dream, plan, do, review. If the book, is dream, plan, do, review. If you want to accomplish anything, if you you want to accomplish anything, if you you want to accomplish anything, if you want to jump in and beat want to jump in and beat want to jump in and beat procrastination, you have to dream, you procrastination, you have to dream, you procrastination, you have to dream, you have to plan, you have to do, and then have to plan, you have to do, and then have to plan, you have to do, and then you have to review. And it's this really you have to review. And it's this really you have to review. And it's this really simple success loop. But, the problem simple success loop. But, the problem simple success loop. But, the problem is, then real life gets involved. So, is, then real life gets involved. So, is, then real life gets involved. So, dreamers get stuck dreaming. They have a dreamers get stuck dreaming. They have a dreamers get stuck dreaming. They have a thousand ideas and zero actions. Because thousand ideas and zero actions. Because thousand ideas and zero actions. Because there's no natural conclusion to your there's no natural conclusion to your there's no natural conclusion to your imagination. Like, dreaming will never imagination. Like, dreaming will never imagination. Like, dreaming will never tell you when it's done. Like, it'll tell you when it's done. Like, it'll tell you when it's done. Like, it'll never go like, "Hey, that's enough.

never go like, "Hey, that's enough. never go like, "Hey, that's enough. Let's wrap it up." Let's wrap it up." Let's wrap it up." The second one, so planning, The second one, so planning, The second one, so planning, perfectionists get stuck planning. perfectionists get stuck planning. perfectionists get stuck planning. Perfectionists are going to change the Perfectionists are going to change the Perfectionists are going to change the world just as soon as the plan is world just as soon as the plan is world just as soon as the plan is perfect. And in a world like AI, they perfect. And in a world like AI, they perfect. And in a world like AI, they are screwed. Carrie, I realized with my are screwed. Carrie, I realized with my are screwed. Carrie, I realized with my team, AI was amazing, but we are getting team, AI was amazing, but we are getting team, AI was amazing, but we are getting into a document war. Where we would go into a document war. Where we would go into a document war. Where we would go off with our own little AIs and come off with our own little AIs and come off with our own little AIs and come back with 25 pages of like, "Well, back with 25 pages of like, "Well, back with 25 pages of like, "Well, here's what AI said we should do." And here's what AI said we should do." And here's what AI said we should do." And I'm like, "Well, here's my 30 pages." I'm like, "Well, here's my 30 pages." I'm like, "Well, here's my 30 pages." And we are in this document arms race And we are in this document arms race And we are in this document arms race because AI can never It'll never stop. because AI can never It'll never stop. because AI can never It'll never stop. It'll ask one question, one more It'll ask one question, one more It'll ask one question, one more question, one more question. And so, question, one more question. And so, question, one more question. And so, perfectionists get stuck in planning. perfectionists get stuck in planning. perfectionists get stuck in planning. Hustlers get stuck doing. A hustler Hustlers get stuck doing. A hustler Hustlers get stuck doing. A hustler hates a review. They hate a plan. Sales hates a review. They hate a plan. Sales hates a review. They hate a plan. Sales teams are this way all the time. They'll teams are this way all the time. They'll teams are this way all the time. They'll go They'll go, "I don't have time for go They'll go, "I don't have time for go They'll go, "I don't have time for this bureaucracy. Like, I worked with a this bureaucracy. Like, I worked with a this bureaucracy. Like, I worked with a sales team and they told me their sales team and they told me their sales team and they told me their soundtrack was if it didn't happen in soundtrack was if it didn't happen in soundtrack was if it didn't happen in Salesforce, it didn't happen." Meaning, Salesforce, it didn't happen." Meaning, Salesforce, it didn't happen." Meaning, if you didn't fill out the form, we're if you didn't fill out the form, we're if you didn't fill out the form, we're not counting that sale. Cuz the sales not counting that sale. Cuz the sales not counting that sale. Cuz the sales team would crush the sale, the thing team would crush the sale, the thing team would crush the sale, the thing they're good at. They're doing, they're they're good at. They're doing, they're they're good at. They're doing, they're hustling they're hustling. They'd come hustling they're hustling. They'd come hustling they're hustling. They'd come back and the the leaders would go, "Hey, back and the the leaders would go, "Hey, back and the the leaders would go, "Hey, would you fill out this form?" And would you fill out this form?" And would you fill out this form?" And they'd go, "I don't have the time for they'd go, "I don't have the time for they'd go, "I don't have the time for all this paperwork." And the all this paperwork." And the all this paperwork." And the the leader would go, "It's three fields.

the leader would go, "It's three fields. the leader would go, "It's three fields. We need to know the name of the person We need to know the name of the person We need to know the name of the person you sold the thing to. Like, we can't you sold the thing to. Like, we can't you sold the thing to. Like, we can't follow up." And And so, that's where follow up." And And so, that's where follow up." And And so, that's where hustlers get stuck. And I'm that way. hustlers get stuck. And I'm that way. hustlers get stuck. And I'm that way. So, what I'll What that looks like in my So, what I'll What that looks like in my So, what I'll What that looks like in my life and on my team is we have a dream, life and on my team is we have a dream, life and on my team is we have a dream, we immediately split skip planning and we immediately split skip planning and we immediately split skip planning and start doing. And we're running, Carrie. start doing. And we're running, Carrie. start doing. And we're running, Carrie. We're moving fast. Right off a cliff We're moving fast. Right off a cliff We're moving fast. Right off a cliff often, but we're going. We're doing it. often, but we're going. We're doing it. often, but we're going. We're doing it. Like, look at us. And then the last one, Like, look at us. And then the last one, Like, look at us. And then the last one, analysts get stuck reviewing. And analysts get stuck reviewing. And analysts get stuck reviewing. And they're great at reviewing. They just they're great at reviewing. They just they're great at reviewing. They just tend to review mistakes from the past tend to review mistakes from the past tend to review mistakes from the past and predict failure in the future. They and predict failure in the future. They and predict failure in the future. They say things like, "That's not how we do say things like, "That's not how we do say things like, "That's not how we do things here." Or worse is, "We tried things here." Or worse is, "We tried things here." Or worse is, "We tried that before and it didn't work." And if that before and it didn't work." And if that before and it didn't work." And if you pull the thread on that one and go, you pull the thread on that one and go, you pull the thread on that one and go, "Hey, when? When did we try that?" The "Hey, when? When did we try that?" The "Hey, when? When did we try that?" The answer is usually seven years ago, one answer is usually seven years ago, one answer is usually seven years ago, one time. So, they go, "We tried Facebook. time. So, they go, "We tried Facebook. time. So, they go, "We tried Facebook. It doesn't work for our church. It It doesn't work for our church. It It doesn't work for our church. It doesn't work for our church." And you doesn't work for our church." And you doesn't work for our church." And you go, "Yeah, when did we try that?" go, "Yeah, when did we try that?" go, "Yeah, when did we try that?" >> It doesn't work. It hallucinates. >> It doesn't work. It hallucinates. >> It doesn't work. It hallucinates. >> Yeah, is it possible that it's changed >> Yeah, is it possible that it's changed >> Yeah, is it possible that it's changed since then? Is it possible our one-day since then? Is it possible our one-day since then? Is it possible our one-day test wasn't enough of a sample set for test wasn't enough of a sample set for test wasn't enough of a sample set for us to decide social media doesn't work us to decide social media doesn't work us to decide social media doesn't work for our church or our team? And so, for our church or our team? And so, for our church or our team? And so, yeah, those are the four different yeah, those are the four different yeah, those are the four different traps: dreamers, perfectionists, um traps: dreamers, perfectionists, um traps: dreamers, perfectionists, um hustlers, and analysts. Well, which are hustlers, and analysts. Well, which are hustlers, and analysts. Well, which are you naturally?

you naturally? you naturally? I would say I'm naturally a hustler. I would say I'm naturally a hustler. I would say I'm naturally a hustler. Like, I'm ready to go. Like, I'm ready Like, I'm ready to go. Like, I'm ready Like, I'm ready to go. Like, I'm ready to jump in. I like And I would say the to jump in. I like And I would say the to jump in. I like And I would say the gift to me of AI is the planning side of gift to me of AI is the planning side of gift to me of AI is the planning side of it. AI has asked me a lot of questions it. AI has asked me a lot of questions it. AI has asked me a lot of questions that have made me stop before I run. So, that have made me stop before I run. So, that have made me stop before I run. So, it'll go, "Hey, how many of those leads it'll go, "Hey, how many of those leads it'll go, "Hey, how many of those leads came in from that page? Do you know?" came in from that page? Do you know?" came in from that page? Do you know?" And I'm like, "I don't know. That's a And I'm like, "I don't know. That's a And I'm like, "I don't know. That's a great question." And I go find out and great question." And I go find out and great question." And I go find out and go, "Oh, I didn't Okay, that's that's go, "Oh, I didn't Okay, that's that's go, "Oh, I didn't Okay, that's that's good for me to know. I should have known good for me to know. I should have known good for me to know. I should have known that." So, yeah, I would say I'm that." So, yeah, I would say I'm that." So, yeah, I would say I'm naturally a hustler. And we we actually naturally a hustler. And we we actually naturally a hustler. And we we actually created an assessment for it. If if your created an assessment for it. If if your created an assessment for it. If if your listeners go to johnacuff.com/carry, listeners go to johnacuff.com/carry, listeners go to johnacuff.com/carry, so I'm assuming they know how to spell so I'm assuming they know how to spell so I'm assuming they know how to spell carry. Um I hope so. It's a simple 35 carry. Um I hope so. It's a simple 35 carry. Um I hope so. It's a simple 35 question kind of analysis that tells you question kind of analysis that tells you question kind of analysis that tells you like, "Here's who you are. Here's where like, "Here's who you are. Here's where like, "Here's who you are. Here's where you're going to struggle leading other you're going to struggle leading other you're going to struggle leading other people. So, if you're a hustler, here's people. So, if you're a hustler, here's people. So, if you're a hustler, here's why it's hard for you with analysts. Or why it's hard for you with analysts. Or why it's hard for you with analysts. Or if you're a planner, here's why you have if you're a planner, here's why you have if you're a planner, here's why you have a really hard time nailing down a a really hard time nailing down a a really hard time nailing down a dreamer." Because in a team context, it dreamer." Because in a team context, it dreamer." Because in a team context, it gets really messy really quick. gets really messy really quick. gets really messy really quick. Yeah, you know, I just want to say Yeah, you know, I just want to say Yeah, you know, I just want to say one of the best things and today's a one of the best things and today's a one of the best things and today's a good day. I have a couple of podcast good day. I have a couple of podcast good day. I have a couple of podcast interviews and then I'm working through interviews and then I'm working through interviews and then I'm working through sections of the book. And it's funny sections of the book. And it's funny sections of the book. And it's funny because I have one of the best editors.

because I have one of the best editors. because I have one of the best editors. Like, I don't know whether you know him Like, I don't know whether you know him Like, I don't know whether you know him or not, Eric Stanford. He's just or not, Eric Stanford. He's just or not, Eric Stanford. He's just unbelievable. And I'm going through unbelievable. And I'm going through unbelievable. And I'm going through this. This is my fifth review. And I'm this. This is my fifth review. And I'm this. This is my fifth review. And I'm like finding small things and I'm like, like finding small things and I'm like, like finding small things and I'm like, "Oh, I wonder if Eric saw this or not." "Oh, I wonder if Eric saw this or not." "Oh, I wonder if Eric saw this or not." And I'm just changing a word or changing And I'm just changing a word or changing And I'm just changing a word or changing the context. And I'm like, "Man, I could the context. And I'm like, "Man, I could the context. And I'm like, "Man, I could do this like Well, I'm not going to do do this like Well, I'm not going to do do this like Well, I'm not going to do it forever, but like if I had a whole it forever, but like if I had a whole it forever, but like if I had a whole week just to reread the manuscript, it's week just to reread the manuscript, it's week just to reread the manuscript, it's better and better. And I want to take better and better. And I want to take better and better. And I want to take that same level of Well, I do try to that same level of Well, I do try to that same level of Well, I do try to take that same level of prep and review take that same level of prep and review take that same level of prep and review into the rest of my work. My keynote into the rest of my work. My keynote into the rest of my work. My keynote talks at conferences, uh my public talks at conferences, uh my public talks at conferences, uh my public speaking, my rolling out. Like, Church speaking, my rolling out. Like, Church speaking, my rolling out. Like, Church Trends used to be something I just wrote Trends used to be something I just wrote Trends used to be something I just wrote between Christmas and New Year's when it between Christmas and New Year's when it between Christmas and New Year's when it started. Now, it's like a 2-month started. Now, it's like a 2-month started. Now, it's like a 2-month research project with like a a final research project with like a a final research project with like a a final grade and everything like that. Like, grade and everything like that. Like, grade and everything like that. Like, it's It's just changed. So, it's It's just changed. So, it's It's just changed. So, um what's changed you most as you've um what's changed you most as you've um what's changed you most as you've Like, when you think about your work Like, when you think about your work Like, when you think about your work when you were still procrastinating and when you were still procrastinating and when you were still procrastinating and the work that you do now, what is the the work that you do now, what is the the work that you do now, what is the biggest payoff that you see?

biggest payoff that you see? biggest payoff that you see? Well, I'll definitely answer that. I'm Well, I'll definitely answer that. I'm Well, I'll definitely answer that. I'm curious of the four, which would you say curious of the four, which would you say curious of the four, which would you say you are? Are you dreamer, perfectionist, you are? Are you dreamer, perfectionist, you are? Are you dreamer, perfectionist, hustler, analyst? hustler, analyst? hustler, analyst? Hustler. Hustler. Hustler. Just do. Yeah, just go. Just go. Just do. Yeah, just go. Just go. Just do. Yeah, just go. Just go. >> Just in the moment, man. Like I know I >> Just in the moment, man. Like I know I >> Just in the moment, man. Like I know I know I know how to do this keynote. I know I know how to do this keynote. I know I know how to do this keynote. I can do it without notes. I can I can can do it without notes. I can I can can do it without notes. I can I can just intuit my way. People always said just intuit my way. People always said just intuit my way. People always said you know when I was leading the church, you know when I was leading the church, you know when I was leading the church, they said you're a very intuitive leader they said you're a very intuitive leader they said you're a very intuitive leader and you lead by vision. Like I just know and you lead by vision. Like I just know and you lead by vision. Like I just know in my gut this is the way to go and most in my gut this is the way to go and most in my gut this is the way to go and most of the times it turned out to be of the times it turned out to be of the times it turned out to be relatively accurate. So I'm grateful for relatively accurate. So I'm grateful for relatively accurate. So I'm grateful for that. But what I lost was thorough that. But what I lost was thorough that. But what I lost was thorough preparation. What I lost was the kind of preparation. What I lost was the kind of preparation. What I lost was the kind of review and then review and then review and then getting to know some mutual friends like getting to know some mutual friends like getting to know some mutual friends like Andy Stanley, Andy Stanley, Andy Stanley, Jeff Henderson who really taught me the Jeff Henderson who really taught me the Jeff Henderson who really taught me the power of planning, who taught me the power of planning, who taught me the power of planning, who taught me the power of review and having people speak power of review and having people speak power of review and having people speak into it. Now I like thrive on feedback. into it. Now I like thrive on feedback. into it. Now I like thrive on feedback. How do you make this better? Like I was How do you make this better? Like I was How do you make this better? Like I was asking you about subtitles today for the asking you about subtitles today for the asking you about subtitles today for the book, right? I was like, "Well, maybe book, right? I was like, "Well, maybe book, right? I was like, "Well, maybe we'll test those. Those are great." Like we'll test those. Those are great." Like we'll test those. Those are great." Like the old me would have just been like, the old me would have just been like, the old me would have just been like, "Here's the title. Here's the subtitle.

"Here's the title. Here's the subtitle. "Here's the title. Here's the subtitle. Here's the manuscript. We're done. That Here's the manuscript. We're done. That Here's the manuscript. We're done. That book is dead to me. It's now shipped." book is dead to me. It's now shipped." book is dead to me. It's now shipped." Well, I mean I I totally get that and I Well, I mean I I totally get that and I Well, I mean I I totally get that and I think we have that in common. think we have that in common. think we have that in common. What's changed for me when it comes to What's changed for me when it comes to What's changed for me when it comes to procrastination and my ability to get procrastination and my ability to get procrastination and my ability to get things done, I would say the biggest things done, I would say the biggest things done, I would say the biggest thing probably is that sense of thing probably is that sense of thing probably is that sense of planning. So there's two things. One is planning. So there's two things. One is planning. So there's two things. One is getting really getting really getting really um um um present to the dream and the other is present to the dream and the other is present to the dream and the other is getting really good at planning. And so getting really good at planning. And so getting really good at planning. And so the dream being I'm willing to do a lot the dream being I'm willing to do a lot the dream being I'm willing to do a lot of hard things because I focus on the of hard things because I focus on the of hard things because I focus on the reason I'm doing them. The dream. The reason I'm doing them. The dream. The reason I'm doing them. The dream. The dream stays so close to me. We're like, dream stays so close to me. We're like, dream stays so close to me. We're like, I you know, with public speaking nobody I you know, with public speaking nobody I you know, with public speaking nobody likes a overnight, you know, unexpected likes a overnight, you know, unexpected likes a overnight, you know, unexpected stay in Chicago. Like 3 weeks ago Just stay in Chicago. Like 3 weeks ago Just stay in Chicago. Like 3 weeks ago Just adrenaline. adrenaline. adrenaline. Yeah, I just had one. I had a flight Yeah, I just had one. I had a flight Yeah, I just had one. I had a flight canceled in O'Hare and they did the canceled in O'Hare and they did the canceled in O'Hare and they did the thing where they go, "It's leaving at thing where they go, "It's leaving at thing where they go, "It's leaving at 7:30 p.m. Uh 8:30 p.m. 9:30 p.m." and 7:30 p.m. Uh 8:30 p.m. 9:30 p.m." and 7:30 p.m. Uh 8:30 p.m. 9:30 p.m." and they just kept dragging and then at they just kept dragging and then at they just kept dragging and then at 11:45 they canceled it. Flight crew 11:45 they canceled it. Flight crew 11:45 they canceled it. Flight crew timed out. Sorry. Yeah. And so nobody timed out. Sorry. Yeah. And so nobody timed out. Sorry. Yeah. And so nobody likes that, but I love being on stage. I likes that, but I love being on stage. I likes that, but I love being on stage. I love helping clients. So what's helped love helping clients. So what's helped love helping clients. So what's helped me not procrastinate is an obsession me not procrastinate is an obsession me not procrastinate is an obsession about the reason I'm doing it. The goal, about the reason I'm doing it. The goal, about the reason I'm doing it. The goal, the dream. And then the second thing is the dream. And then the second thing is the dream. And then the second thing is getting ahead of the planning. Like getting ahead of the planning. Like getting ahead of the planning. Like people say the early bird gets the worm, people say the early bird gets the worm, people say the early bird gets the worm, I say the early bird gets everything.

I say the early bird gets everything. I say the early bird gets everything. The earlier you're planning, the earlier The earlier you're planning, the earlier The earlier you're planning, the earlier like invested in the idea, the better like invested in the idea, the better like invested in the idea, the better all of it goes. The better like the more all of it goes. The better like the more all of it goes. The better like the more you learn and the more you've got set up you learn and the more you've got set up you learn and the more you've got set up and the less chaos and drama. That was and the less chaos and drama. That was and the less chaos and drama. That was the thing I should have said with the the thing I should have said with the the thing I should have said with the pastor who waits till the last second. pastor who waits till the last second. pastor who waits till the last second. I'm all I'm okay with you getting I'm all I'm okay with you getting I'm all I'm okay with you getting adrenaline, dopamine, whatever. Just go adrenaline, dopamine, whatever. Just go adrenaline, dopamine, whatever. Just go get it somewhere else because it's too get it somewhere else because it's too get it somewhere else because it's too expensive for your team. Like your expensive for your team. Like your expensive for your team. Like your personal addiction to that feeling personal addiction to that feeling personal addiction to that feeling shouldn't impact your team. Go find a shouldn't impact your team. Go find a shouldn't impact your team. Go find a sport, go find a heart and go have a sport, go find a heart and go have a sport, go find a heart and go have a hard conversation, go exercise, go hard conversation, go exercise, go hard conversation, go exercise, go whatever. Go find the adrenaline. I'm whatever. Go find the adrenaline. I'm whatever. Go find the adrenaline. I'm not opposed to that at all. There's a not opposed to that at all. There's a not opposed to that at all. There's a lot of things I do because man, that lot of things I do because man, that lot of things I do because man, that that made me feel alive. I can feel that that made me feel alive. I can feel that that made me feel alive. I can feel that rush, but I it can't be something that rush, but I it can't be something that rush, but I it can't be something that lowers my quality and impacts my team in lowers my quality and impacts my team in lowers my quality and impacts my team in a negative way. Cuz if you stopped and a negative way. Cuz if you stopped and a negative way. Cuz if you stopped and said, "But I love that feeling." you said, "But I love that feeling." you said, "But I love that feeling." you would never go. And so yeah, my team's would never go. And so yeah, my team's would never go. And so yeah, my team's going to have to be pressed. They're going to have to be pressed. They're going to have to be pressed. They're going to have to work on their off day. going to have to work on their off day. going to have to work on their off day. It doesn't matter. My feeling matters It doesn't matter. My feeling matters It doesn't matter. My feeling matters the most. I need my adrenaline." And I the most. I need my adrenaline." And I the most. I need my adrenaline." And I think that's part of maturity is going think that's part of maturity is going think that's part of maturity is going you know, am I addicted to this feeling you know, am I addicted to this feeling you know, am I addicted to this feeling and where do I want to get it instead and where do I want to get it instead and where do I want to get it instead that actually supports the life I want that actually supports the life I want that actually supports the life I want and be like, "Dude, is anyone surprised and be like, "Dude, is anyone surprised and be like, "Dude, is anyone surprised Craig Groeschel does jiu-jitsu?" Like is Craig Groeschel does jiu-jitsu?" Like is Craig Groeschel does jiu-jitsu?" Like is anyone like, "I don't see that. He anyone like, "I don't see that. He anyone like, "I don't see that. He seemed like cross stitched to me. Of seemed like cross stitched to me. Of seemed like cross stitched to me. Of course not. He's a good enough leader to course not. He's a good enough leader to course not. He's a good enough leader to know I like high intensity ideas. I need know I like high intensity ideas. I need know I like high intensity ideas. I need to get those in smart ways that serve my to get those in smart ways that serve my to get those in smart ways that serve my long-term needs as a long-term leader

long-term needs as a long-term leader long-term needs as a long-term leader and my whole team. Cuz I guarantee he and my whole team. Cuz I guarantee he and my whole team. Cuz I guarantee he you know like there's ways he could get you know like there's ways he could get you know like there's ways he could get it at you know on the backs of Life it at you know on the backs of Life it at you know on the backs of Life Church but he doesn't do that. He goes Church but he doesn't do that. He goes Church but he doesn't do that. He goes no this is for that thing this is where no this is for that thing this is where no this is for that thing this is where I go and that's that's what I think I I go and that's that's what I think I I go and that's that's what I think I respect the most. That is extremely respect the most. That is extremely respect the most. That is extremely accurate about Craig by the way. I think accurate about Craig by the way. I think accurate about Craig by the way. I think he said something similar on this he said something similar on this he said something similar on this podcast and and knowing him as a friend podcast and and knowing him as a friend podcast and and knowing him as a friend Yeah because if you inflict all that Yeah because if you inflict all that Yeah because if you inflict all that energy and intensity energy and intensity energy and intensity on your co-workers like there's there's on your co-workers like there's there's on your co-workers like there's there's there's certain people who just bring there's certain people who just bring there's certain people who just bring more energy and more fuel to the fire more energy and more fuel to the fire more energy and more fuel to the fire and not everybody can burn at that and not everybody can burn at that and not everybody can burn at that right? Like they just can't and so right? Like they just can't and so right? Like they just can't and so you're going to the organization you're going to the organization you're going to the organization and so he is wise and then he ends up and so he is wise and then he ends up and so he is wise and then he ends up with a balanced life like he goes home with a balanced life like he goes home with a balanced life like he goes home and he goes and does jujitsu and then he and he goes and does jujitsu and then he and he goes and does jujitsu and then he has more time for his wife and his kids has more time for his wife and his kids has more time for his wife and his kids and all that stuff. and all that stuff. and all that stuff. >> And he's present. Yeah so there's ways >> And he's present. Yeah so there's ways >> And he's present. Yeah so there's ways to do it. There's there's definitely to do it. There's there's definitely to do it. There's there's definitely ways to do it. I'm not a brain ways to do it. I'm not a brain ways to do it. I'm not a brain researcher but like I can tell you when researcher but like I can tell you when researcher but like I can tell you when you were saying go get your dopamine you were saying go get your dopamine you were saying go get your dopamine somewhere else. I now I used to get the somewhere else. I now I used to get the somewhere else. I now I used to get the thrill from like last minute stuff and thrill from like last minute stuff and thrill from like last minute stuff and then particularly in my preaching which then particularly in my preaching which then particularly in my preaching which I had to change gosh 20 years ago. It I had to change gosh 20 years ago. It I had to change gosh 20 years ago. It was a long time ago. I I went to go I'm was a long time ago. I I went to go I'm was a long time ago. I I went to go I'm not doing this the team anymore.

not doing this the team anymore. not doing this the team anymore. I get and got increasing joy out of like I get and got increasing joy out of like I get and got increasing joy out of like oh I'm done a month early and that gave oh I'm done a month early and that gave oh I'm done a month early and that gave me the hit that being late used to give me the hit that being late used to give me the hit that being late used to give me. Yeah. Yeah. me. Yeah. Yeah. me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you get that too? Do you find Yeah. Do you get that too? Do you find Yeah. Do you get that too? Do you find your dopamine comes in like oh like when your dopamine comes in like oh like when your dopamine comes in like oh like when this book is done or you know when a this book is done or you know when a this book is done or you know when a when a video is done it's like when a video is done it's like when a video is done it's like all right I got this done and now that's all right I got this done and now that's all right I got this done and now that's not out for two more months but like not out for two more months but like not out for two more months but like that is off my chest and it feels great. that is off my chest and it feels great. that is off my chest and it feels great. >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean I get it that way and >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean I get it that way and >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean I get it that way and then there's I think you're just as you then there's I think you're just as you then there's I think you're just as you pay attention to yourself, you find pay attention to yourself, you find pay attention to yourself, you find better ways to get it. Like for me, I better ways to get it. Like for me, I better ways to get it. Like for me, I realized years ago I was using anxiety realized years ago I was using anxiety realized years ago I was using anxiety for that kick. So I would worst case for that kick. So I would worst case for that kick. So I would worst case scenario for the joy of when it didn't scenario for the joy of when it didn't scenario for the joy of when it didn't happen. So I was So what I would do is happen. So I was So what I would do is happen. So I was So what I would do is I'd go, "Man, if this happens and this I'd go, "Man, if this happens and this I'd go, "Man, if this happens and this happens this happens." And I'm feeling happens this happens." And I'm feeling happens this happens." And I'm feeling this tension. I'm feeling this kind of this tension. I'm feeling this kind of this tension. I'm feeling this kind of like electricity. And then when it like electricity. And then when it like electricity. And then when it doesn't happen, I go, doesn't happen, I go, doesn't happen, I go, "Ah, [sighs and gasps] so it wasn't as "Ah, [sighs and gasps] so it wasn't as "Ah, [sighs and gasps] so it wasn't as bad as I thought." And that was me stuck bad as I thought." And that was me stuck bad as I thought." And that was me stuck in this anxiety adrenaline loop that was in this anxiety adrenaline loop that was in this anxiety adrenaline loop that was the run like And And again, people the run like And And again, people the run like And And again, people around me, that's hard to live with.

around me, that's hard to live with. around me, that's hard to live with. Like it's hard to be married to somebody Like it's hard to be married to somebody Like it's hard to be married to somebody who's mainlining anxiety as a way to who's mainlining anxiety as a way to who's mainlining anxiety as a way to feel excited. Like that doesn't That feel excited. Like that doesn't That feel excited. Like that doesn't That doesn't help anybody. So I had I really doesn't help anybody. So I had I really doesn't help anybody. So I had I really had to examine that and go, had to examine that and go, had to examine that and go, "Oh, I just got a hit out of that. I "Oh, I just got a hit out of that. I "Oh, I just got a hit out of that. I don't want to get that hit anymore. don't want to get that hit anymore. don't want to get that hit anymore. That's not how I want to live life. I That's not how I want to live life. I That's not how I want to live life. I want to find the hit somewhere else." want to find the hit somewhere else." want to find the hit somewhere else." And yeah, whether it's like I finished And yeah, whether it's like I finished And yeah, whether it's like I finished the thing early. Um I get a I get a the thing early. Um I get a I get a the thing early. Um I get a I get a great sense of accomplishment every time great sense of accomplishment every time great sense of accomplishment every time a um foreign edition of a book comes to a um foreign edition of a book comes to a um foreign edition of a book comes to my house. Like it gives me such a like, my house. Like it gives me such a like, my house. Like it gives me such a like, "Oh my gosh, like there's people in "Oh my gosh, like there's people in "Oh my gosh, like there's people in Poland that are reading this book." Like Poland that are reading this book." Like Poland that are reading this book." Like I got to help them. Like I don't know I got to help them. Like I don't know I got to help them. Like I don't know them. I've never been to Poland, but them. I've never been to Poland, but them. I've never been to Poland, but like I put an idea in a bottle and I like I put an idea in a bottle and I like I put an idea in a bottle and I threw it out of my house and it landed threw it out of my house and it landed threw it out of my house and it landed on somebody else's shore. Like that's a on somebody else's shore. Like that's a on somebody else's shore. Like that's a really like I feel that sense of really like I feel that sense of really like I feel that sense of accomplishment and that's a good one accomplishment and that's a good one accomplishment and that's a good one that I that I enjoy versus like I'm that I that I enjoy versus like I'm that I that I enjoy versus like I'm mainlining it in other ways that aren't mainlining it in other ways that aren't mainlining it in other ways that aren't helpful and do end up burning me out. helpful and do end up burning me out. helpful and do end up burning me out. So there are pastors who are listening So there are pastors who are listening So there are pastors who are listening right now and church leaders who who right now and church leaders who who right now and church leaders who who have realized, yeah, caught in this. And have realized, yeah, caught in this. And have realized, yeah, caught in this. And I've got a whole system now. We I've got a whole system now. We I've got a whole system now. We re-released The Art of Preaching in 2025 re-released The Art of Preaching in 2025 re-released The Art of Preaching in 2025 and one of the top questions was, and one of the top questions was, and one of the top questions was, you know, how do I get ahead in my you know, how do I get ahead in my you know, how do I get ahead in my preaching? So I've got like a complete preaching? So I've got like a complete preaching? So I've got like a complete system to get a month ahead. It's system to get a month ahead. It's system to get a month ahead. It's basically what I've done. And I mean, basically what I've done. And I mean, basically what I've done. And I mean, people can check that out in The art of people can check that out in The art of people can check that out in The art of preaching if they want, but at the end preaching if they want, but at the end preaching if they want, but at the end of the day, people listening in real of the day, people listening in real of the day, people listening in real time are like, "Okay, guilty as time are like, "Okay, guilty as time are like, "Okay, guilty as charged." John, what's the the best charged." John, what's the the best charged." John, what's the the best first step they can take to delivering first step they can take to delivering first step they can take to delivering their team from the Saturday night their team from the Saturday night their team from the Saturday night specials or the Friday minute last last

specials or the Friday minute last last specials or the Friday minute last last minute scramble? Like, if they're like, minute scramble? Like, if they're like, minute scramble? Like, if they're like, "I want to make a change." what's the "I want to make a change." what's the "I want to make a change." what's the best first thing they can do? best first thing they can do? best first thing they can do? I mean, I think part of it is like a I mean, I think part of it is like a I mean, I think part of it is like a little bit of writing. Um and it might little bit of writing. Um and it might little bit of writing. Um and it might be answering the question, be answering the question, be answering the question, "Why do I do this?" Like, and maybe it "Why do I do this?" Like, and maybe it "Why do I do this?" Like, and maybe it is because I'm overwhelmed with is because I'm overwhelmed with is because I'm overwhelmed with everything else. And the answer is I everything else. And the answer is I everything else. And the answer is I need to honestly say, "I can't do good need to honestly say, "I can't do good need to honestly say, "I can't do good sermon prep based on the current sermon prep based on the current sermon prep based on the current responsibilities I have. I need to give responsibilities I have. I need to give responsibilities I have. I need to give some of them away. I need to I mean, some of them away. I need to I mean, some of them away. I need to I mean, like even Moses had to be like, 'Hey, like even Moses had to be like, 'Hey, like even Moses had to be like, 'Hey, dude, it's too much. Like, you're Moses, dude, it's too much. Like, you're Moses, dude, it's too much. Like, you're Moses, it's too much.'" So, like, why am I it's too much.'" So, like, why am I it's too much.'" So, like, why am I doing this? Is it because I am addicted doing this? Is it because I am addicted doing this? Is it because I am addicted to that feeling and I need to admit that to that feeling and I need to admit that to that feeling and I need to admit that and to change that? Is it because I'm and to change that? Is it because I'm and to change that? Is it because I'm legitimately overwhelmed? Because what legitimately overwhelmed? Because what legitimately overwhelmed? Because what happens, let's just talk pastors. My happens, let's just talk pastors. My happens, let's just talk pastors. My dad's a pastor. I love pastors. Um dad's a pastor. I love pastors. Um dad's a pastor. I love pastors. Um the challenge is if you're good at the challenge is if you're good at the challenge is if you're good at delivering a sermon, the rest of the delivering a sermon, the rest of the delivering a sermon, the rest of the week crowds it out and you're able to week crowds it out and you're able to week crowds it out and you're able to get it done to a degree that most people get it done to a degree that most people get it done to a degree that most people can't. So, most people can't do what you can't. So, most people can't do what you can't. So, most people can't do what you do, so then stuff just gets added added do, so then stuff just gets added added do, so then stuff just gets added added added added and your time to prepare added added and your time to prepare added added and your time to prepare gets naturally shortened. I had a friend gets naturally shortened. I had a friend gets naturally shortened. I had a friend say one of his triggers is if he finds say one of his triggers is if he finds say one of his triggers is if he finds himself saying the sentence, "I can make himself saying the sentence, "I can make himself saying the sentence, "I can make it work." he's in a bad spot. So, if you it work." he's in a bad spot. So, if you it work." he's in a bad spot. So, if you are saying to yourself, "Okay, I used to are saying to yourself, "Okay, I used to are saying to yourself, "Okay, I used to when I was young, I used to be able to when I was young, I used to be able to when I was young, I used to be able to do the sermon prep on Monday, but man, do the sermon prep on Monday, but man, do the sermon prep on Monday, but man, budget meetings on Monday and now budget meetings on Monday and now budget meetings on Monday and now Tuesday and Wednesday and Thursday." And Tuesday and Wednesday and Thursday." And Tuesday and Wednesday and Thursday." And the thing you're best at we tend to the thing you're best at we tend to the thing you're best at we tend to phone in, which is ironic, but we can phone in, which is ironic, but we can phone in, which is ironic, but we can kind of do it. Like, I can kind of pull kind of do it. Like, I can kind of pull kind of do it. Like, I can kind of pull it off. Like, and so it gets shorter and it off. Like, and so it gets shorter and it off. Like, and so it gets shorter and shorter and shorter. And if you find shorter and shorter. And if you find shorter and shorter. And if you find yourself saying, "I can make it work. I

yourself saying, "I can make it work. I yourself saying, "I can make it work. I can make it work. I can make it work." can make it work. I can make it work." can make it work. I can make it work." maybe the first step is I got to clear maybe the first step is I got to clear maybe the first step is I got to clear some stuff off. I think a really easy some stuff off. I think a really easy some stuff off. I think a really easy step to is to make an appointment with step to is to make an appointment with step to is to make an appointment with yourself and keep it. Like the problem yourself and keep it. Like the problem yourself and keep it. Like the problem with goals, Carey, is that a goal is with goals, Carey, is that a goal is with goals, Carey, is that a goal is never just a goal. A goal is a promise. never just a goal. A goal is a promise. never just a goal. A goal is a promise. It's a promise you made to yourself, and It's a promise you made to yourself, and It's a promise you made to yourself, and every time you break it, it gets easier every time you break it, it gets easier every time you break it, it gets easier to break the next one. So, if it were to break the next one. So, if it were to break the next one. So, if it were me, I'd do the Sunday thing. On Sunday, me, I'd do the Sunday thing. On Sunday, me, I'd do the Sunday thing. On Sunday, I would plan, "How do I hook up Monday I would plan, "How do I hook up Monday I would plan, "How do I hook up Monday me?" And Monday me might need an hour me?" And Monday me might need an hour me?" And Monday me might need an hour block on the calendar where that is block on the calendar where that is block on the calendar where that is sermon prep. And it doesn't get to or sermon prep. And it doesn't get to or sermon prep. And it doesn't get to or half an hour, 15 minutes, whatever is half an hour, 15 minutes, whatever is half an hour, 15 minutes, whatever is your time frame. Make an appointment your time frame. Make an appointment your time frame. Make an appointment with yourself, and then the second step with yourself, and then the second step with yourself, and then the second step is keep it and get into that habit where is keep it and get into that habit where is keep it and get into that habit where like you're not On Monday, you're not like you're not On Monday, you're not like you're not On Monday, you're not deciding. You've already decided once. I deciding. You've already decided once. I deciding. You've already decided once. I try to make as many decisions on Sunday try to make as many decisions on Sunday try to make as many decisions on Sunday as I can, so that I don't get to argue as I can, so that I don't get to argue as I can, so that I don't get to argue and negotiate with myself all week. Like and negotiate with myself all week. Like and negotiate with myself all week. Like this morning, I ran at 6:00 a.m. It was this morning, I ran at 6:00 a.m. It was this morning, I ran at 6:00 a.m. It was dark. Like I didn't particularly want to dark. Like I didn't particularly want to dark. Like I didn't particularly want to do it, but it didn't matter. The do it, but it didn't matter. The do it, but it didn't matter. The negotiation had already happened. Like negotiation had already happened. Like negotiation had already happened. Like the decision was over. Monday me Morning the decision was over. Monday me Morning the decision was over. Monday me Morning me is a doer. You know your job, get me is a doer. You know your job, get me is a doer. You know your job, get doing. And so, like if you can as a doing. And so, like if you can as a doing. And so, like if you can as a pastor go, "Can I carve out 30 minutes?"

pastor go, "Can I carve out 30 minutes?" pastor go, "Can I carve out 30 minutes?" And I Here's the thing I'd say, go And I Here's the thing I'd say, go And I Here's the thing I'd say, go somewhere. One of my favorite somewhere. One of my favorite somewhere. One of my favorite soundtracks is do hard do do hard things soundtracks is do hard do do hard things soundtracks is do hard do do hard things in beautiful places. Do hard things in in beautiful places. Do hard things in in beautiful places. Do hard things in beautiful places. So, if you know beautiful places. So, if you know beautiful places. So, if you know there's no world where you don't get there's no world where you don't get there's no world where you don't get interrupted in that 30 minutes, go to a interrupted in that 30 minutes, go to a interrupted in that 30 minutes, go to a coffee shop for an hour. Like your coffee shop for an hour. Like your coffee shop for an hour. Like your favorite coffee shop. Bring one thing, favorite coffee shop. Bring one thing, favorite coffee shop. Bring one thing, maybe just a notebook. Like start Like maybe just a notebook. Like start Like maybe just a notebook. Like start Like don't bring your whole office, but like don't bring your whole office, but like don't bring your whole office, but like go or go for a walk and take notes in go or go for a walk and take notes in go or go for a walk and take notes in your audio with your phone. Like go do your audio with your phone. Like go do your audio with your phone. Like go do it somewhere that's beautiful, because I it somewhere that's beautiful, because I it somewhere that's beautiful, because I think that makes it a lot easier, too. think that makes it a lot easier, too. think that makes it a lot easier, too. Yeah, I love that idea. I was Yeah, I love that idea. I was Yeah, I love that idea. I was remembering that this week. You know, remembering that this week. You know, remembering that this week. You know, Greg McKeown, his second book, lesser Greg McKeown, his second book, lesser Greg McKeown, his second book, lesser known, I forget the title right now. known, I forget the title right now. known, I forget the title right now. What's it called? Effortless. What's it called? Effortless. What's it called? Effortless. Effortless. Effortless. Effortless. But like I had this editing to do, and I But like I had this editing to do, and I But like I had this editing to do, and I have a number of other things. I'm not have a number of other things. I'm not have a number of other things. I'm not on a writing retreat. So, I'm like, on a writing retreat. So, I'm like, on a writing retreat. So, I'm like, "Well, how do I make this enjoyable?" "Well, how do I make this enjoyable?" "Well, how do I make this enjoyable?" Like that's your permission. And I'm Like that's your permission. And I'm Like that's your permission. And I'm like, "You're an adult. You can do what like, "You're an adult. You can do what like, "You're an adult. You can do what you want." So, I put on some of my you want." So, I put on some of my you want." So, I put on some of my favorite soundtracks on my speakers on favorite soundtracks on my speakers on favorite soundtracks on my speakers on my desk, and I'm like, I'm just going to my desk, and I'm like, I'm just going to my desk, and I'm like, I'm just going to listen to music and it sounds really listen to music and it sounds really listen to music and it sounds really like very 10-year-old but like it's like very 10-year-old but like it's like very 10-year-old but like it's like, oh no, I get to make the rules.

like, oh no, I get to make the rules. like, oh no, I get to make the rules. And and I do better if I have some nice And and I do better if I have some nice And and I do better if I have some nice background music. So, I'm just going to background music. So, I'm just going to background music. So, I'm just going to play that nobody can tell me not to. So, play that nobody can tell me not to. So, play that nobody can tell me not to. So, whatever you need to do and you know, whatever you need to do and you know, whatever you need to do and you know, when it came to preaching just to give when it came to preaching just to give when it came to preaching just to give people a hack, it's like use your green people a hack, it's like use your green people a hack, it's like use your green zone, do what you're best at when you're zone, do what you're best at when you're zone, do what you're best at when you're at your best, which for me is the at your best, which for me is the at your best, which for me is the morning hours. morning hours. morning hours. And I would rather disappoint one person And I would rather disappoint one person And I would rather disappoint one person by saying sorry, I'm not available until by saying sorry, I'm not available until by saying sorry, I'm not available until after 11:00 a.m. than disappoint 500 or after 11:00 a.m. than disappoint 500 or after 11:00 a.m. than disappoint 500 or 1500 people on the weekend with a bad 1500 people on the weekend with a bad 1500 people on the weekend with a bad half mangled message. Yeah, and you're half mangled message. Yeah, and you're half mangled message. Yeah, and you're not going to say to them, but I had a not going to say to them, but I had a not going to say to them, but I had a coffee and the coffee went well. I had coffee and the coffee went well. I had coffee and the coffee went well. I had somebody come in for a 10:00 a.m. somebody come in for a 10:00 a.m. somebody come in for a 10:00 a.m. meeting and I crushed that. I know I'm meeting and I crushed that. I know I'm meeting and I crushed that. I know I'm terrible at this, but I you should call terrible at this, but I you should call terrible at this, but I you should call Jill and and Mark. We had a great Jill and and Mark. We had a great Jill and and Mark. We had a great finance meeting. So, I know and this is finance meeting. So, I know and this is finance meeting. So, I know and this is your first and last time at church. your first and last time at church. your first and last time at church. Sorry, it's usually good. Not today cuz Sorry, it's usually good. Not today cuz Sorry, it's usually good. Not today cuz I had that I had that meeting Monday I had that I had that meeting Monday I had that I had that meeting Monday that screwed up everything. Yeah. But to that screwed up everything. Yeah. But to that screwed up everything. Yeah. But to me, Kerry, what you just said is you had me, Kerry, what you just said is you had me, Kerry, what you just said is you had a bigger dream. You didn't try to become a bigger dream. You didn't try to become a bigger dream. You didn't try to become disciplined. You let the size of the disciplined. You let the size of the disciplined. You let the size of the dream drive your discipline. That's what dream drive your discipline. That's what dream drive your discipline. That's what people get twisted all the time. They people get twisted all the time. They people get twisted all the time. They think they have to be disciplined in think they have to be disciplined in think they have to be disciplined in order to dream. And I think you have to order to dream. And I think you have to order to dream. And I think you have to dream in order to be disciplined. The dream in order to be disciplined. The dream in order to be disciplined. The dream gives you the discipline. I didn't dream gives you the discipline. I didn't dream gives you the discipline. I didn't change my life in my mid-30s change my life in my mid-30s change my life in my mid-30s by getting up earlier, by watching less by getting up earlier, by watching less by getting up earlier, by watching less TV, by being more deliberate. What TV, by being more deliberate. What TV, by being more deliberate. What happened was I wrote a blog and all of a happened was I wrote a blog and all of a happened was I wrote a blog and all of a sudden I was like, wait a second.

sudden I was like, wait a second. sudden I was like, wait a second. There's a whole world out here. Wait a There's a whole world out here. Wait a There's a whole world out here. Wait a second. I like this. And then I stopped second. I like this. And then I stopped second. I like this. And then I stopped watching as much TV because TV gave me watching as much TV because TV gave me watching as much TV because TV gave me nothing. The blog was a fire nothing. The blog was a fire nothing. The blog was a fire >> and every hour was a log I was throwing >> and every hour was a log I was throwing >> and every hour was a log I was throwing into it. I couldn't make the blaze big into it. I couldn't make the blaze big into it. I couldn't make the blaze big enough. The dream created the enough. The dream created the enough. The dream created the discipline, not I had to become discipline, not I had to become discipline, not I had to become disciplined. So, in your example, what I disciplined. So, in your example, what I disciplined. So, in your example, what I just heard was just heard was just heard was my dream is to really super serve 500 my dream is to really super serve 500 my dream is to really super serve 500 people on Sunday And I can see that and people on Sunday And I can see that and people on Sunday And I can see that and that's tangible and I look at that. So, that's tangible and I look at that. So, that's tangible and I look at that. So, it's easier to say no to the person on it's easier to say no to the person on it's easier to say no to the person on Monday because you can see the dream and Monday because you can see the dream and Monday because you can see the dream and you know what it costs to say yes to you know what it costs to say yes to you know what it costs to say yes to that person. You've got the dream clear that person. You've got the dream clear that person. You've got the dream clear enough that you see it. I think most enough that you see it. I think most enough that you see it. I think most people especially pastors haven't people especially pastors haven't people especially pastors haven't reconnected with that dream in a long reconnected with that dream in a long reconnected with that dream in a long time because of the busyness of the time because of the busyness of the time because of the busyness of the thousands things they have to do. Like thousands things they have to do. Like thousands things they have to do. Like they they have to be leaders and CFOs they they have to be leaders and CFOs they they have to be leaders and CFOs and HR and all the stuff that they're and HR and all the stuff that they're and HR and all the stuff that they're carrying and they lose touch with like, carrying and they lose touch with like, carrying and they lose touch with like, oh no, this is this is the thing. oh no, this is this is the thing. oh no, this is this is the thing. Well, leads us into the territory I Well, leads us into the territory I Well, leads us into the territory I wasn't planning on talking about this, wasn't planning on talking about this, wasn't planning on talking about this, but you and I but you and I but you and I I mean, I know you well enough to know I mean, I know you well enough to know I mean, I know you well enough to know that there in light of everything you're that there in light of everything you're that there in light of everything you're doing and everything you're focused on, doing and everything you're focused on, doing and everything you're focused on, there's got to be a lot of no's. No, I there's got to be a lot of no's. No, I there's got to be a lot of no's. No, I can't meet for coffee. No, I'm sorry, can't meet for coffee. No, I'm sorry, can't meet for coffee. No, I'm sorry, you can't pick my brain. No, I can't do you can't pick my brain. No, I can't do you can't pick my brain. No, I can't do this event. Etcetera. You know, my joke this event. Etcetera. You know, my joke this event. Etcetera. You know, my joke with with my staff is I pay some of them with with my staff is I pay some of them with with my staff is I pay some of them just to say no all day long. So, that just to say no all day long. So, that just to say no all day long. So, that can focus on what I really need what I can focus on what I really need what I can focus on what I really need what I feel called to focus on. If somebody's feel called to focus on. If somebody's feel called to focus on. If somebody's like, how do you how have you learned to like, how do you how have you learned to like, how do you how have you learned to say no again and again and how do you do say no again and again and how do you do say no again and again and how do you do it without alienating everybody who's

it without alienating everybody who's it without alienating everybody who's asking you for something? Well, it's not asking you for something? Well, it's not asking you for something? Well, it's not easy. I'm a people person. I like to easy. I'm a people person. I like to easy. I'm a people person. I like to >> I like to please people and that can be >> I like to please people and that can be >> I like to please people and that can be a great strength and a great weakness. a great strength and a great weakness. a great strength and a great weakness. And so, I try to work on the weakness And so, I try to work on the weakness And so, I try to work on the weakness side of it. Some of it like you said, it side of it. Some of it like you said, it side of it. Some of it like you said, it is about your team. Like I have an is about your team. Like I have an is about your team. Like I have an amazing assistant that I've worked with amazing assistant that I've worked with amazing assistant that I've worked with for 10 years. And so, she she and I have for 10 years. And so, she she and I have for 10 years. And so, she she and I have a really good rhythm on say yes to this, a really good rhythm on say yes to this, a really good rhythm on say yes to this, say no to this. Um, the second thing is say no to this. Um, the second thing is say no to this. Um, the second thing is I, you know, every Sunday I've got a map I, you know, every Sunday I've got a map I, you know, every Sunday I've got a map of my, you know, really from like 5:30 of my, you know, really from like 5:30 of my, you know, really from like 5:30 a.m. to like 5:00 p.m. that I've mapped a.m. to like 5:00 p.m. that I've mapped a.m. to like 5:00 p.m. that I've mapped out on my calendar. Now, there's some out on my calendar. Now, there's some out on my calendar. Now, there's some kind of spots where it's like kind of spots where it's like kind of spots where it's like miscellaneous, let's see what comes up. miscellaneous, let's see what comes up. miscellaneous, let's see what comes up. Like nobody has a life where every hour Like nobody has a life where every hour Like nobody has a life where every hour goes exactly the way you think it'd go. goes exactly the way you think it'd go. goes exactly the way you think it'd go. Um, Um, Um, but I'm really deliberate about the time but I'm really deliberate about the time but I'm really deliberate about the time that I have to invest. Um, and then I I that I have to invest. Um, and then I I that I have to invest. Um, and then I I started to do stuff like Terry realizing started to do stuff like Terry realizing started to do stuff like Terry realizing some things are definitely a no, but some things are definitely a no, but some things are definitely a no, but some things are a phone call in the car. some things are a phone call in the car. some things are a phone call in the car. So, there's times where I'll go, "Okay, So, there's times where I'll go, "Okay, So, there's times where I'll go, "Okay, this isn't a go meet somebody at a this isn't a go meet somebody at a this isn't a go meet somebody at a coffee shop for this. That's pretty coffee shop for this. That's pretty coffee shop for this. That's pretty invested. This is a I'm driving to the invested. This is a I'm driving to the invested. This is a I'm driving to the airport. I've got 15 minutes. Can I airport. I've got 15 minutes. Can I airport. I've got 15 minutes. Can I encourage this person?" Okay, yeah, let encourage this person?" Okay, yeah, let encourage this person?" Okay, yeah, let me schedule that. Like, let me So, then me schedule that. Like, let me So, then me schedule that. Like, let me So, then like now I'm I'm kind of redeeming some like now I'm I'm kind of redeeming some like now I'm I'm kind of redeeming some of that time. So, I got really good at of that time. So, I got really good at of that time. So, I got really good at seeing what I had to play with. Um, and seeing what I had to play with. Um, and seeing what I had to play with. Um, and then I the older I get the more I'm then I the older I get the more I'm then I the older I get the more I'm trying to do less of less things that trying to do less of less things that trying to do less of less things that I'm bad at. So, if somebody goes like, I'm bad at. So, if somebody goes like, I'm bad at. So, if somebody goes like, "Hey, I want to do this thing." And "Hey, I want to do this thing." And "Hey, I want to do this thing." And like, the ego side of me wants to be like, the ego side of me wants to be like, the ego side of me wants to be like, "I'm amazing at everything. Yes, like, "I'm amazing at everything. Yes, like, "I'm amazing at everything. Yes, I'll do that." But now I'm like, "No, I I'll do that." But now I'm like, "No, I I'll do that." But now I'm like, "No, I wouldn't I'm actually really not good at wouldn't I'm actually really not good at wouldn't I'm actually really not good at that." Um,

that." Um, that." Um, you know, I used to feel really guilty you know, I used to feel really guilty you know, I used to feel really guilty when people would DM me long questions when people would DM me long questions when people would DM me long questions about like their career. about like their career. about like their career. And I then I remembered I wrote a whole And I then I remembered I wrote a whole And I then I remembered I wrote a whole book called Do Over about career. So, book called Do Over about career. So, book called Do Over about career. So, it's one thing if you email me and go, it's one thing if you email me and go, it's one thing if you email me and go, "I read Do Over. Here's the three "I read Do Over. Here's the three "I read Do Over. Here's the three questions I have." That's different. But questions I have." That's different. But questions I have." That's different. But if you go, like, I won't serve you in if you go, like, I won't serve you in if you go, like, I won't serve you in that DM. There's no DM I'm going to be that DM. There's no DM I'm going to be that DM. There's no DM I'm going to be able to write that's better than the able to write that's better than the able to write that's better than the book. So, sometimes it's about like book. So, sometimes it's about like book. So, sometimes it's about like pointing people to the right resources. pointing people to the right resources. pointing people to the right resources. Um, and and but you and I are maniacs on Um, and and but you and I are maniacs on Um, and and but you and I are maniacs on on time management. Like, the green is on time management. Like, the green is on time management. Like, the green is true. Like, true. Like, true. Like, putting stuff in that matters where it putting stuff in that matters where it putting stuff in that matters where it matters. Um, I would say what I've matters. Um, I would say what I've matters. Um, I would say what I've gotten better at is allowing some gotten better at is allowing some gotten better at is allowing some breathing room in my schedule, too. Cuz breathing room in my schedule, too. Cuz breathing room in my schedule, too. Cuz that's the tension. It's really that's the tension. It's really that's the tension. It's really schedule, but it's like one of my sound schedule, but it's like one of my sound schedule, but it's like one of my sound contracts for saying no and time contracts for saying no and time contracts for saying no and time management is management is management is plan like an engineer, live like an plan like an engineer, live like an plan like an engineer, live like an artist. artist. artist. Plan like an engineer, live like an Plan like an engineer, live like an Plan like an engineer, live like an artist because the plan is going to artist because the plan is going to artist because the plan is going to change and you need the flexibility of change and you need the flexibility of change and you need the flexibility of an artist and the spontaneity to have a an artist and the spontaneity to have a an artist and the spontaneity to have a rich life. But you also need the plan rich life. But you also need the plan rich life. But you also need the plan like an engineer to go, "If I want these like an engineer to go, "If I want these like an engineer to go, "If I want these things to happen if like here's like things to happen if like here's like things to happen if like here's like you're not you didn't casually do your you're not you didn't casually do your you're not you didn't casually do your vacation with your extended family. That vacation with your extended family. That vacation with your extended family. That didn't come together via accident. You didn't come together via accident. You didn't come together via accident. You had to plan that. Now, I know not every had to plan that. Now, I know not every had to plan that. Now, I know not every day is planned to the minute. There's day is planned to the minute. There's day is planned to the minute. There's going to be family spontaneity. You'll going to be family spontaneity. You'll going to be family spontaneity. You'll probably tell me when we talk next time, probably tell me when we talk next time, probably tell me when we talk next time, "And you know what's the best part? It "And you know what's the best part? It "And you know what's the best part? It was crazy. It wasn't something we was crazy. It wasn't something we was crazy. It wasn't something we planned. We just had this dinner that planned. We just had this dinner that planned. We just had this dinner that came together with some locals." And it came together with some locals." And it came together with some locals." And it was like like So, that's the tension.

was like like So, that's the tension. was like like So, that's the tension. So, for me, it's like, how do I plan So, for me, it's like, how do I plan So, for me, it's like, how do I plan like an engineer? How do I live like an like an engineer? How do I live like an like an engineer? How do I live like an artist in the actual moment? Yeah, even artist in the actual moment? Yeah, even artist in the actual moment? Yeah, even with my green zone, you know, it's just with my green zone, you know, it's just with my green zone, you know, it's just a block. Like our mutual friend Frank a block. Like our mutual friend Frank a block. Like our mutual friend Frank Beeler, he will uh minutely schedule Beeler, he will uh minutely schedule Beeler, he will uh minutely schedule every single hour of his day. And I'm every single hour of his day. And I'm every single hour of his day. And I'm like, more power to you, man. I love like, more power to you, man. I love like, more power to you, man. I love you, Frank. Mine is just like I want to you, Frank. Mine is just like I want to you, Frank. Mine is just like I want to wander around and make myself a cup of wander around and make myself a cup of wander around and make myself a cup of coffee or tea. Or I want to stare out coffee or tea. Or I want to stare out coffee or tea. Or I want to stare out the window for a little while cuz I find the window for a little while cuz I find the window for a little while cuz I find great ideas take time to develop. They great ideas take time to develop. They great ideas take time to develop. They really do for me. So, okay. really do for me. So, okay. really do for me. So, okay. >> Like so, Carey, I would say I'm If I'm >> Like so, Carey, I would say I'm If I'm >> Like so, Carey, I would say I'm If I'm over scheduled, I don't have that space over scheduled, I don't have that space over scheduled, I don't have that space and my ideas suffer. I do. I'm not a and my ideas suffer. I do. I'm not a and my ideas suffer. I do. I'm not a good thinker. One of my favorite things good thinker. One of my favorite things good thinker. One of my favorite things to do is to listen to music and drive. to do is to listen to music and drive. to do is to listen to music and drive. And I get ideas in that. And like there And I get ideas in that. And like there And I get ideas in that. And like there was a time I went through a season where was a time I went through a season where was a time I went through a season where I was only listening to podcasts and I was only listening to podcasts and I was only listening to podcasts and audiobooks cuz I was like, constant audiobooks cuz I was like, constant audiobooks cuz I was like, constant learning, constant learning. And I learning, constant learning. And I learning, constant learning. And I missed that and I had to go back to that missed that and I had to go back to that missed that and I had to go back to that where it was like, "Oh, wait a second. where it was like, "Oh, wait a second. where it was like, "Oh, wait a second. No, I like to go drive and listen to No, I like to go drive and listen to No, I like to go drive and listen to music." And it's on like a huge music." And it's on like a huge music." And it's on like a huge playlist, so I don't know what song's playlist, so I don't know what song's playlist, so I don't know what song's coming next. And like And then a great coming next. And like And then a great coming next. And like And then a great idea will pop in. Like a great idea will idea will pop in. Like a great idea will idea will pop in. Like a great idea will make a cameo when I'm not looking make a cameo when I'm not looking make a cameo when I'm not looking directly at it. A lot of my best ideas directly at it. A lot of my best ideas directly at it. A lot of my best ideas are on the periphery of my life. Like are on the periphery of my life. Like are on the periphery of my life. Like I'm looking at something else and it I'm looking at something else and it I'm looking at something else and it sneaks in. It's like, "Hey!" And I have sneaks in. It's like, "Hey!" And I have sneaks in. It's like, "Hey!" And I have to be cognizant enough to go, "Oh, I see to be cognizant enough to go, "Oh, I see to be cognizant enough to go, "Oh, I see you." Like, I'll I'll write that down.

you." Like, I'll I'll write that down. you." Like, I'll I'll write that down. I'll I'll follow that up. That's kind of I'll I'll follow that up. That's kind of I'll I'll follow that up. That's kind of how I think. how I think. how I think. Yeah. Okay, so now I got to go to at Yeah. Okay, so now I got to go to at Yeah. Okay, so now I got to go to at least one more issue around least one more issue around least one more issue around procrastination. And that, John, is procrastination. And that, John, is procrastination. And that, John, is great. We've dealt with the listener great. We've dealt with the listener great. We've dealt with the listener who's like, "Yeah, I'm guilty. Thank you who's like, "Yeah, I'm guilty. Thank you who's like, "Yeah, I'm guilty. Thank you for the help." for the help." for the help." What about the team member who's like, What about the team member who's like, What about the team member who's like, "I would pay a large amount of money to "I would pay a large amount of money to "I would pay a large amount of money to get my senior pastor, my CEO, my leader get my senior pastor, my CEO, my leader get my senior pastor, my CEO, my leader to listen to this because they're the to listen to this because they're the to listen to this because they're the procrastinator. They're the one who are procrastinator. They're the one who are procrastinator. They're the one who are always texting me last minute going, always texting me last minute going, always texting me last minute going, "Hey, can you make a change cuz this was "Hey, can you make a change cuz this was "Hey, can you make a change cuz this was supposed to be done by now, but it's not supposed to be done by now, but it's not supposed to be done by now, but it's not done by now?" So, when you think about done by now?" So, when you think about done by now?" So, when you think about team dynamics and you lead a team now, team dynamics and you lead a team now, team dynamics and you lead a team now, John, I'd love to know what what like John, I'd love to know what what like John, I'd love to know what what like what do you do when you're not the what do you do when you're not the what do you do when you're not the procrastinator, but the people around procrastinator, but the people around procrastinator, but the people around you and particularly the people above you and particularly the people above you and particularly the people above you or the person above you is? Well, in you or the person above you is? Well, in you or the person above you is? Well, in the person above you, I mean, now you're the person above you, I mean, now you're the person above you, I mean, now you're talking about managing up and managing talking about managing up and managing talking about managing up and managing up to me is just a different form of up to me is just a different form of up to me is just a different form of sales. So, I'm trying to sell that sales. So, I'm trying to sell that sales. So, I'm trying to sell that leader what I believe is the better way. leader what I believe is the better way. leader what I believe is the better way. So, if you think about it like sales, So, if you think about it like sales, So, if you think about it like sales, you go, "Okay, what are their pain you go, "Okay, what are their pain you go, "Okay, what are their pain points? What are the challenges they points? What are the challenges they points? What are the challenges they have? What's the solution I want to have? What's the solution I want to have? What's the solution I want to guide them toward? Like, I think this is guide them toward? Like, I think this is guide them toward? Like, I think this is the thing. I need to frame it in a way the thing. I need to frame it in a way the thing. I need to frame it in a way they'll understand and go along with they'll understand and go along with they'll understand and go along with it." So, like for me, I would go, "If I it." So, like for me, I would go, "If I it." So, like for me, I would go, "If I was going to sell a different way, like was going to sell a different way, like was going to sell a different way, like a more detailed way or less a more detailed way or less a more detailed way or less procrastination or we're planning ahead procrastination or we're planning ahead procrastination or we're planning ahead of time, how would I sell it to that of time, how would I sell it to that of time, how would I sell it to that person?" Like, cuz I wouldn't sell it as person?" Like, cuz I wouldn't sell it as person?" Like, cuz I wouldn't sell it as you're doing it wrong. Like, no sales you're doing it wrong. Like, no sales you're doing it wrong. Like, no sales conversation goes well if you start conversation goes well if you start conversation goes well if you start with, "You're doing it the wrong way.

with, "You're doing it the wrong way. with, "You're doing it the wrong way. And you don't even own the right stuff And you don't even own the right stuff And you don't even own the right stuff and I'm here to fix that cuz it's really and I'm here to fix that cuz it's really and I'm here to fix that cuz it's really dumb." No, you'd go, "Hey, I know that dumb." No, you'd go, "Hey, I know that dumb." No, you'd go, "Hey, I know that like I know you really care about family like I know you really care about family like I know you really care about family time and I think if we tweak a couple time and I think if we tweak a couple time and I think if we tweak a couple things, we can add 10% more family time things, we can add 10% more family time things, we can add 10% more family time to your week. Like, would that like to your week. Like, would that like to your week. Like, would that like would that be something you'd be willing would that be something you'd be willing would that be something you'd be willing to go with me on?" Or, "I know you care to go with me on?" Or, "I know you care to go with me on?" Or, "I know you care about like you really care about the about like you really care about the about like you really care about the stage time and how the like no leader stage time and how the like no leader stage time and how the like no leader likes to be embarrassed on stage when likes to be embarrassed on stage when likes to be embarrassed on stage when something happens they weren't expecting something happens they weren't expecting something happens they weren't expecting or they were unprepared. So, I want to or they were unprepared. So, I want to or they were unprepared. So, I want to eliminate that. So, how do we, you know, eliminate that. So, how do we, you know, eliminate that. So, how do we, you know, like I would sell them on that." When like I would sell them on that." When like I would sell them on that." When it's co-workers and it's more of a peer it's co-workers and it's more of a peer it's co-workers and it's more of a peer relationship, that's where you get into relationship, that's where you get into relationship, that's where you get into things like what are the boundaries you things like what are the boundaries you things like what are the boundaries you set? What are the like what, you know, set? What are the like what, you know, set? What are the like what, you know, what are the kind of not rules, but like what are the kind of not rules, but like what are the kind of not rules, but like what are the expectations you set? Like what are the expectations you set? Like what are the expectations you set? Like the reason people will bold a date in an the reason people will bold a date in an the reason people will bold a date in an email is they want to call attention to email is they want to call attention to email is they want to call attention to like I need this back by this date. Like like I need this back by this date. Like like I need this back by this date. Like I'm trying to make it easy for you to I'm trying to make it easy for you to I'm trying to make it easy for you to know this is what I need. Same with like know this is what I need. Same with like know this is what I need. Same with like back to AI back to AI back to AI um I every document I create I'm trying um I every document I create I'm trying um I every document I create I'm trying to create a one-page version too because to create a one-page version too because to create a one-page version too because AI will be like here's a 27-page AI will be like here's a 27-page AI will be like here's a 27-page document you can throw at your throw at document you can throw at your throw at document you can throw at your throw at your co-worker. They're going to your co-worker. They're going to your co-worker. They're going to procrastinate on that. I want to set procrastinate on that. I want to set procrastinate on that. I want to set them up for success. So the best way to them up for success. So the best way to them up for success. So the best way to do that when it's something I care about do that when it's something I care about do that when it's something I care about a lot that I want them to invest into is a lot that I want them to invest into is a lot that I want them to invest into is here's a one-page summary. There's here's a one-page summary. There's here's a one-page summary. There's plenty more to look at, but here's the plenty more to look at, but here's the plenty more to look at, but here's the one-page summary. You want to come along one-page summary. You want to come along one-page summary. You want to come along a little on this other thing? Um you a little on this other thing? Um you a little on this other thing? Um you know and so like I'm even there you're

know and so like I'm even there you're know and so like I'm even there you're trying again it's a sales process. Yeah. trying again it's a sales process. Yeah. trying again it's a sales process. Yeah. And you try and then you know inside a And you try and then you know inside a And you try and then you know inside a team there's politics and there's team there's politics and there's team there's politics and there's bureaucracy and there's all the stuff. bureaucracy and there's all the stuff. bureaucracy and there's all the stuff. Um but your ability to kind of set some Um but your ability to kind of set some Um but your ability to kind of set some clear boundaries and expectations, they clear boundaries and expectations, they clear boundaries and expectations, they might still miss them, but now you're might still miss them, but now you're might still miss them, but now you're getting into like we've got it like I've getting into like we've got it like I've getting into like we've got it like I've been clear on my end there's no been clear on my end there's no been clear on my end there's no confusion. Own what you can control. You confusion. Own what you can control. You confusion. Own what you can control. You can't control that other person. If you can't control that other person. If you can't control that other person. If you if you don't like how they're if you don't like how they're if you don't like how they're performing, own your performance even performing, own your performance even performing, own your performance even more and you'll you'll start to at least more and you'll you'll start to at least more and you'll you'll start to at least create like oh this is something that's create like oh this is something that's create like oh this is something that's really happening that I need to fix or really happening that I need to fix or really happening that I need to fix or wow they procrastinated cuz I didn't wow they procrastinated cuz I didn't wow they procrastinated cuz I didn't tell them when I needed it. That's not tell them when I needed it. That's not tell them when I needed it. That's not procrastination. Like when so somebody procrastination. Like when so somebody procrastination. Like when so somebody said that to me the other day like um said that to me the other day like um said that to me the other day like um I'm going to butcher how they said it. I'm going to butcher how they said it. I'm going to butcher how they said it. It was my buddy William, but he said it It was my buddy William, but he said it It was my buddy William, but he said it basically basically basically my unspoken unmet my unspoken unmet my unspoken unmet expectations are not a broken promise. expectations are not a broken promise. expectations are not a broken promise. My unspent unmet expectations are not a My unspent unmet expectations are not a My unspent unmet expectations are not a broken promise and when you as a broken promise and when you as a broken promise and when you as a co-worker or a leader go can't believe co-worker or a leader go can't believe co-worker or a leader go can't believe they did that and you go well did you they did that and you go well did you they did that and you go well did you ask them to do it a different way ask them to do it a different way ask them to do it a different way clearly with a time frame and clearly with a time frame and clearly with a time frame and deliverables and measurables and you go deliverables and measurables and you go deliverables and measurables and you go no, but they should just know that no, but they should just know that no, but they should just know that that's what I know. They should know.

that's what I know. They should know. that's what I know. They should know. So, like yeah, my So, like yeah, my So, like yeah, my unspoken unmet expectations are not your unspoken unmet expectations are not your unspoken unmet expectations are not your broken promise. broken promise. broken promise. So, So, So, um um um you're doing probably a lot of you're doing probably a lot of you're doing probably a lot of conversations on podcasts about conversations on podcasts about conversations on podcasts about procrastination right now. procrastination right now. procrastination right now. What is one thing that you don't think What is one thing that you don't think What is one thing that you don't think is talked about enough? What is sort of is talked about enough? What is sort of is talked about enough? What is sort of the hidden gem or gosh, I wish everybody the hidden gem or gosh, I wish everybody the hidden gem or gosh, I wish everybody asked me this, but nobody ever does. asked me this, but nobody ever does. asked me this, but nobody ever does. I think the main thing is like that it's I think the main thing is like that it's I think the main thing is like that it's all fixable. Like the the fun thing to all fixable. Like the the fun thing to all fixable. Like the the fun thing to me about procrastination, imposter me about procrastination, imposter me about procrastination, imposter syndrome, inner critic, perfectionism, syndrome, inner critic, perfectionism, syndrome, inner critic, perfectionism, you know, all of those are just mindset you know, all of those are just mindset you know, all of those are just mindset issues. They're not physical things. issues. They're not physical things. issues. They're not physical things. They're not real like we treat them like They're not real like we treat them like They're not real like we treat them like they are. They're not. Like I always I they are. They're not. Like I always I they are. They're not. Like I always I always laugh like in the seventh grade always laugh like in the seventh grade always laugh like in the seventh grade there was a bully named Donnie who used there was a bully named Donnie who used there was a bully named Donnie who used to bully me cuz that's what bullies do. to bully me cuz that's what bullies do. to bully me cuz that's what bullies do. And like we would be on the bus and he And like we would be on the bus and he And like we would be on the bus and he would show me his knuckles and they were would show me his knuckles and they were would show me his knuckles and they were covered in scars and he would say, "I covered in scars and he would say, "I covered in scars and he would say, "I got these scars from punching kids with got these scars from punching kids with got these scars from punching kids with braces like you." And then when we get braces like you." And then when we get braces like you." And then when we get off the bus, he would throw my book bag off the bus, he would throw my book bag off the bus, he would throw my book bag under the back tires of the bus and the under the back tires of the bus and the under the back tires of the bus and the bus would run over my books every day.

bus would run over my books every day. bus would run over my books every day. Like he I think he invented throwing Like he I think he invented throwing Like he I think he invented throwing somebody under the bus. somebody under the bus. somebody under the bus. Donnie was real. Like dude, Donnie was Donnie was real. Like dude, Donnie was Donnie was real. Like dude, Donnie was real. I had a real physical issue I had real. I had a real physical issue I had real. I had a real physical issue I had to deal with. to deal with. to deal with. Procrastination is just mindset and so Procrastination is just mindset and so Procrastination is just mindset and so it's so solvable. And and when you solve it's so solvable. And and when you solve it's so solvable. And and when you solve it just a little bit, dude, like when it just a little bit, dude, like when it just a little bit, dude, like when you change just a little like it's the you change just a little like it's the you change just a little like it's the kind of thing that you can solve and kind of thing that you can solve and kind of thing that you can solve and people notice. Like it's the kind of people notice. Like it's the kind of people notice. Like it's the kind of thing where a spouse would be like, thing where a spouse would be like, thing where a spouse would be like, "Hey, did you Did you do that thing that "Hey, did you Did you do that thing that "Hey, did you Did you do that thing that we talked about for like 9 years?" we talked about for like 9 years?" we talked about for like 9 years?" You're like, "Yeah, I did that. It just You're like, "Yeah, I did that. It just You're like, "Yeah, I did that. It just felt time. I just did that thing." And felt time. I just did that thing." And felt time. I just did that thing." And they're going to be like, "What?" Your they're going to be like, "What?" Your they're going to be like, "What?" Your boss is going to notice. Your neigh- boss is going to notice. Your neigh- boss is going to notice. Your neigh- like people will drive down the street like people will drive down the street like people will drive down the street and be like, "Good job." So, I would and be like, "Good job." So, I would and be like, "Good job." So, I would just say I think we just say I think we just say I think we we forget how solvable all these things we forget how solvable all these things we forget how solvable all these things are and we we like you have the power to are and we we like you have the power to are and we we like you have the power to solve it and it's it can actually be solve it and it's it can actually be solve it and it's it can actually be really fun and funny, and you don't have really fun and funny, and you don't have really fun and funny, and you don't have to get your book bag driven over by a to get your book bag driven over by a to get your book bag driven over by a bus. Like, it's a mindset issue, and bus. Like, it's a mindset issue, and bus. Like, it's a mindset issue, and those are solvable. Good, Donnie. I had those are solvable. Good, Donnie. I had those are solvable. Good, Donnie. I had the blue kid, man, third grade. If we the blue kid, man, third grade. If we the blue kid, man, third grade. If we saw the blue kid saw the blue kid saw the blue kid walking down the street, we took another walking down the street, we took another walking down the street, we took another street, man. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I street, man. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I street, man. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I I I I I still like it's I know his last name I still like it's I know his last name I still like it's I know his last name still, but I'm like, he's probably like still, but I'm like, he's probably like still, but I'm like, he's probably like doing like doing something great with doing like doing something great with doing like doing something great with his life now. I don't want to I don't his life now. I don't want to I don't his life now. I don't want to I don't want to throw him under the bus. No, I want to throw him under the bus. No, I want to throw him under the bus. No, I don't even know who the blue kid was. It don't even know who the blue kid was. It don't even know who the blue kid was. It was just like you wore a blue jacket. It was just like you wore a blue jacket. It was just like you wore a blue jacket. It was like, "Oh, it's a blue kid. Get out was like, "Oh, it's a blue kid. Get out was like, "Oh, it's a blue kid. Get out of here." That's all you need to know.

of here." That's all you need to know. of here." That's all you need to know. That's all you need to know. That's all you need to know. That's all you need to know. >> to know. It's a blue kid, man. Yeah. >> to know. It's a blue kid, man. Yeah. >> to know. It's a blue kid, man. Yeah. Yeah, but you know what? And it's what I Yeah, but you know what? And it's what I Yeah, but you know what? And it's what I taught my boys growing up. I I always taught my boys growing up. I I always taught my boys growing up. I I always said, "If you do what you said you're said, "If you do what you said you're said, "If you do what you said you're going to do when you said you're going going to do when you said you're going going to do when you said you're going to do it, you're ahead of 98% of the to do it, you're ahead of 98% of the to do it, you're ahead of 98% of the planet." And I think that is still true. planet." And I think that is still true. planet." And I think that is still true. I teach that to team members. We try to I teach that to team members. We try to I teach that to team members. We try to deliver as a team. We don't miss deliver as a team. We don't miss deliver as a team. We don't miss deadlines, you know? And you can't deadlines, you know? And you can't deadlines, you know? And you can't control other companies, other control other companies, other control other companies, other organizations. My team's always telling organizations. My team's always telling organizations. My team's always telling me, "Oh, we're chasing so-and-so for me, "Oh, we're chasing so-and-so for me, "Oh, we're chasing so-and-so for details," or "We're trying to get more details," or "We're trying to get more details," or "We're trying to get more clarity on this." I'm like, "Good. Just clarity on this." I'm like, "Good. Just clarity on this." I'm like, "Good. Just don't be late. Don't be late." Like, we don't be late. Don't be late." Like, we don't be late. Don't be late." Like, we we can control what we have. And I And I we can control what we have. And I And I we can control what we have. And I And I would say, you know, much reformed from would say, you know, much reformed from would say, you know, much reformed from my college days when every paper in my college days when every paper in my college days when every paper in undergrad was handed in late. undergrad was handed in late. undergrad was handed in late. I love the way I love the way I love the way >> Like, winning feels better. Like, it's >> Like, winning feels better. Like, it's >> Like, winning feels better. Like, it's enjoyable. And And the professor always enjoyable. And And the professor always enjoyable. And And the professor always gave it to me, and I did really I had gave it to me, and I did really I had gave it to me, and I did really I had straight A's. So, it was like, why am I straight A's. So, it was like, why am I straight A's. So, it was like, why am I motivated to change? But now, I have a motivated to change? But now, I have a motivated to change? But now, I have a more sophisticated understanding. Sure. more sophisticated understanding. Sure. more sophisticated understanding. Sure. Huh. Huh. Huh. Jon, this is great. Um tell us it's Jon, this is great. Um tell us it's Jon, this is great. Um tell us it's johnacuff.com/carry. johnacuff.com/carry. johnacuff.com/carry. Uh people can do an assessment. Uh people can do an assessment. Uh people can do an assessment. >> for that for the assessment, and then, >> for that for the assessment, and then, >> for that for the assessment, and then, um we uh the book's available everywhere um we uh the book's available everywhere um we uh the book's available everywhere books are sold. I read the audiobook, books are sold. I read the audiobook, books are sold. I read the audiobook, and there's a ton of bonus content in and there's a ton of bonus content in and there's a ton of bonus content in the audiobook. You do audiobooks so the audiobook. You do audiobooks so the audiobook. You do audiobooks so well, man. It's so fun.

well, man. It's so fun. well, man. It's so fun. >> It's fun. And then, depending on when it >> It's fun. And then, depending on when it >> It's fun. And then, depending on when it comes out, if it comes out before the comes out, if it comes out before the comes out, if it comes out before the book launch, book launch, book launch, uh you can go to johnacuff.com/go. uh you can go to johnacuff.com/go. uh you can go to johnacuff.com/go. And there's a bunch of pre-order And there's a bunch of pre-order And there's a bunch of pre-order bonuses. Oh, cool. bonuses. Oh, cool. bonuses. Oh, cool. So, you actually get the whole audiobook So, you actually get the whole audiobook So, you actually get the whole audiobook for free if you pre-order the the paper for free if you pre-order the the paper for free if you pre-order the the paper book or the digital. book or the digital. book or the digital. Yeah, yeah, that's really really cool Yeah, yeah, that's really really cool Yeah, yeah, that's really really cool that you were able to do that. So, that you were able to do that. So, that you were able to do that. So, >> Yeah, thank you. Thank you to the >> Yeah, thank you. Thank you to the >> Yeah, thank you. Thank you to the publishers like, go for it. Yeah, the publishers like, go for it. Yeah, the publishers like, go for it. Yeah, the publisher kudos to them. publisher kudos to them. publisher kudos to them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. John, as always, is such a fun time to John, as always, is such a fun time to John, as always, is such a fun time to get together. Thank you so much for get together. Thank you so much for get together. Thank you so much for today. I think you helped a lot of today. I think you helped a lot of today. I think you helped a lot of people and maybe took some of the people and maybe took some of the people and maybe took some of the tension out of people's lives and tension out of people's lives and tension out of people's lives and people's teams. Well, I can't wait to people's teams. Well, I can't wait to people's teams. Well, I can't wait to see you again in Franklin. I'll be the see you again in Franklin. I'll be the see you again in Franklin. I'll be the first to welcome you when you finally first to welcome you when you finally first to welcome you when you finally move here. Yes, exactly. move here. Yes, exactly. move here. Yes, exactly. The rumor was we have moved there, but The rumor was we have moved there, but The rumor was we have moved there, but not yet. We just got a lot not yet. We just got a lot not yet. We just got a lot >> Yeah, I'm starting it. I start that >> Yeah, I'm starting it. I start that >> Yeah, I'm starting it. I start that rumor every time we talk. Every time I'm rumor every time we talk. Every time I'm rumor every time we talk. Every time I'm on this podcast. Yeah. By the way, on this podcast. Yeah. By the way, on this podcast. Yeah. By the way, congrats on the best cover. Do you have congrats on the best cover. Do you have congrats on the best cover. Do you have the proof just for people watching on the proof just for people watching on the proof just for people watching on YouTube? YouTube? YouTube? >> Hey, yeah, look at that. I remember >> Hey, yeah, look at that. I remember >> Hey, yeah, look at that. I remember we were talking about cover art and I'm we were talking about cover art and I'm we were talking about cover art and I'm like, "Dude, you got to go with the like, "Dude, you got to go with the like, "Dude, you got to go with the turtle in the rocket." And when I saw turtle in the rocket." And when I saw turtle in the rocket." And when I saw that You were one of the early people that You were one of the early people that You were one of the early people that were like, "Hey." Cuz I was like, that were like, "Hey." Cuz I was like, that were like, "Hey." Cuz I was like, "I don't know." Like, and now and we did "I don't know." Like, and now and we did "I don't know." Like, and now and we did a we did a survey with our people and it a we did a survey with our people and it a we did a survey with our people and it crushed every other option. That is one crushed every other option. That is one crushed every other option. That is one of my favorite cover art. It gives me of my favorite cover art. It gives me of my favorite cover art. It gives me cover art envy. When you said like, "I cover art envy. When you said like, "I cover art envy. When you said like, "I don't know. I think we could cuz what don't know. I think we could cuz what don't know. I think we could cuz what were the other metaphors? They weren't were the other metaphors? They weren't were the other metaphors? They weren't even close. I don't remember."

even close. I don't remember." even close. I don't remember." >> terrible, dude. It was like jumbled >> terrible, dude. It was like jumbled >> terrible, dude. It was like jumbled letters and I was like, the rest of the letters and I was like, the rest of the letters and I was like, the rest of the other options would give you a panic other options would give you a panic other options would give you a panic attack if you looked at them visually. attack if you looked at them visually. attack if you looked at them visually. Like, they were like, "So, you know how Like, they were like, "So, you know how Like, they were like, "So, you know how it is? Like, coming up with a cover or a it is? Like, coming up with a cover or a it is? Like, coming up with a cover or a title, like, we're doing that writers title, like, we're doing that writers title, like, we're doing that writers intensive." I was thinking about this. intensive." I was thinking about this. intensive." I was thinking about this. Like, the job of the title isn't to tell Like, the job of the title isn't to tell Like, the job of the title isn't to tell you the whole book. It's to get you to you the whole book. It's to get you to you the whole book. It's to get you to read the subtitle. The job of the read the subtitle. The job of the read the subtitle. The job of the subtitle is to get you to read the back subtitle is to get you to read the back subtitle is to get you to read the back cover. Back cover's job is to get you cover. Back cover's job is to get you cover. Back cover's job is to get you read the inside flap. Inside flap is to read the inside flap. Inside flap is to read the inside flap. Inside flap is to get you to read the first page. But get you to read the first page. But get you to read the first page. But authors go, "I got to have my whole book authors go, "I got to have my whole book authors go, "I got to have my whole book expressed in the titles." Like, "No, you expressed in the titles." Like, "No, you expressed in the titles." Like, "No, you don't. Nobody Like, that's not his job." don't. Nobody Like, that's not his job." don't. Nobody Like, that's not his job." Or your subtitle. Like, you're working Or your subtitle. Like, you're working Or your subtitle. Like, you're working on a subtitle. I was like, "Hey, I think on a subtitle. I was like, "Hey, I think on a subtitle. I was like, "Hey, I think you could simplify it this way." you could simplify it this way." you could simplify it this way." Um so like, yeah, it's fun to as a Um so like, yeah, it's fun to as a Um so like, yeah, it's fun to as a communicator, you and I are nerds that communicator, you and I are nerds that communicator, you and I are nerds that way where whether it's in a speech or in way where whether it's in a speech or in way where whether it's in a speech or in a book, it's not accidental. Like you're a book, it's not accidental. Like you're a book, it's not accidental. Like you're Like last thing I'll say, Carey, I Like last thing I'll say, Carey, I Like last thing I'll say, Carey, I realized this is so dorky. I have this realized this is so dorky. I have this realized this is so dorky. I have this joke about how work is hard now because joke about how work is hard now because joke about how work is hard now because you have to convince people to come to you have to convince people to come to you have to convince people to come to the office. And 20 years ago, nobody had the office. And 20 years ago, nobody had the office. And 20 years ago, nobody had to do that. Like leaders just said, to do that. Like leaders just said, to do that. Like leaders just said, "This is our building. This is where "This is our building. This is where "This is our building. This is where work happens Monday through Friday, 9:00 work happens Monday through Friday, 9:00 work happens Monday through Friday, 9:00 to 5:00.

to 5:00. to 5:00. Be here." And now they have to do a Be here." And now they have to do a Be here." And now they have to do a marketing campaign. They're like, marketing campaign. They're like, marketing campaign. They're like, "Oh, we have coffee. Come. Like, oh, on "Oh, we have coffee. Come. Like, oh, on "Oh, we have coffee. Come. Like, oh, on Fridays you get to ride Shetland ponies Fridays you get to ride Shetland ponies Fridays you get to ride Shetland ponies between meetings. It's It's pony between meetings. It's It's pony between meetings. It's It's pony Friday." And I realized Shetland pony Friday." And I realized Shetland pony Friday." And I realized Shetland pony was funnier than Friesian because was funnier than Friesian because was funnier than Friesian because Friesian, nobody knows what that horse Friesian, nobody knows what that horse Friesian, nobody knows what that horse is. Like, Shetland, everybody has a is. Like, Shetland, everybody has a is. Like, Shetland, everybody has a small pony in their head. And it was small pony in their head. And it was small pony in their head. And it was funnier than just regular pony. I love funnier than just regular pony. I love funnier than just regular pony. I love that you and I, if people could listen that you and I, if people could listen that you and I, if people could listen to some of our conversations, they're to some of our conversations, they're to some of our conversations, they're that nerdy where we're like, "Is this that nerdy where we're like, "Is this that nerdy where we're like, "Is this the right word? What does that word mean the right word? What does that word mean the right word? What does that word mean to you? How is this going to to you? How is this going to to you? How is this going to communicate? Is this going to confuse communicate? Is this going to confuse communicate? Is this going to confuse people?" And like, to have a a brother people?" And like, to have a a brother people?" And like, to have a a brother that I get to do that with is a real joy that I get to do that with is a real joy that I get to do that with is a real joy to me, Carey. to me, Carey. to me, Carey. >> Well, it's absolutely mutual. And like a >> Well, it's absolutely mutual. And like a >> Well, it's absolutely mutual. And like a turtle with a rocket strapped to his turtle with a rocket strapped to his turtle with a rocket strapped to his back, that's one for the ages. Like way back, that's one for the ages. Like way back, that's one for the ages. Like way to go, man. I appreciate it, dude. to go, man. I appreciate it, dude. to go, man. I appreciate it, dude. Nobody will forget it. Anyway, Nobody will forget it. Anyway, Nobody will forget it. Anyway, John, as always, such a gift. Thank you. John, as always, such a gift. Thank you. John, as always, such a gift. Thank you. Thanks for having me, Carey. I can't Thanks for having me, Carey. I can't Thanks for having me, Carey. I can't wait to do it again. There was a lot of wait to do it again. There was a lot of wait to do it again. There was a lot of good stuff in that episode. And if you good stuff in that episode. And if you good stuff in that episode. And if you want more, you can find it in the show want more, you can find it in the show want more, you can find it in the show notes. And the place to find the show notes. And the place to find the show notes. And the place to find the show notes is the place that 20,000 leaders notes is the place that 20,000 leaders notes is the place that 20,000 leaders now look on a regular basis. It's my Art now look on a regular basis. It's my Art now look on a regular basis. It's my Art of Leadership Academy. We opened it up of Leadership Academy. We opened it up of Leadership Academy. We opened it up last year, um May. It hasn't been even last year, um May. It hasn't been even last year, um May. It hasn't been even open a year, and 20,000 leaders have open a year, and 20,000 leaders have open a year, and 20,000 leaders have jumped in. They've gone from the crowd jumped in. They've gone from the crowd jumped in. They've gone from the crowd to the core. In the academy, I personal to the core. In the academy, I personal to the core. In the academy, I personal conversations with a lot of leaders on a conversations with a lot of leaders on a conversations with a lot of leaders on a daily basis. Would love to see you in daily basis. Would love to see you in daily basis. Would love to see you in there. You find the show notes, some there. You find the show notes, some there. You find the show notes, some really good thoughtful conversation really good thoughtful conversation really good thoughtful conversation around podcast episodes. So, just go to around podcast episodes. So, just go to around podcast episodes. So, just go to the art of leadership academy.com, set the art of leadership academy.com, set the art of leadership academy.com, set up your free account today, or click the

up your free account today, or click the up your free account today, or click the link in the description of this episode link in the description of this episode link in the description of this episode to get more. Well, coming up next to get more. Well, coming up next to get more. Well, coming up next episode, we've got Todd Wilson. We talk episode, we've got Todd Wilson. We talk episode, we've got Todd Wilson. We talk about the history of the church growth about the history of the church growth about the history of the church growth movement. Also coming up, Christine movement. Also coming up, Christine movement. Also coming up, Christine Caine, Chelsea Smith, Preston Sprinkle, Caine, Chelsea Smith, Preston Sprinkle, Caine, Chelsea Smith, Preston Sprinkle, and a whole lot more on the podcast. If and a whole lot more on the podcast. If and a whole lot more on the podcast. If you hit follow or subscribe wherever you hit follow or subscribe wherever you hit follow or subscribe wherever you're watching or listening, you will you're watching or listening, you will you're watching or listening, you will never miss an episode. And if this meant never miss an episode. And if this meant never miss an episode. And if this meant a lot to you, maybe you can text the a lot to you, maybe you can text the a lot to you, maybe you can text the link to a friend. It means the world to link to a friend. It means the world to link to a friend. It means the world to me when you rate this podcast, when you me when you rate this podcast, when you me when you rate this podcast, when you review it, when you share it with a review it, when you share it with a review it, when you share it with a friend, because when you do that, the friend, because when you do that, the friend, because when you do that, the podcast grows. When the podcast grows, podcast grows. When the podcast grows, podcast grows. When the podcast grows, we get the best leaders in the world we get the best leaders in the world we get the best leaders in the world that we can bring to you. And I hope I that we can bring to you. And I hope I that we can bring to you. And I hope I kind of brought you behind the scenes. kind of brought you behind the scenes. kind of brought you behind the scenes. You know, John and I talk all the time, You know, John and I talk all the time, You know, John and I talk all the time, and now you've had one of those and now you've had one of those and now you've had one of those conversations with him. I try to bring conversations with him. I try to bring conversations with him. I try to bring the questions you would want to ask him the questions you would want to ask him the questions you would want to ask him if you had lunch, dinner, or coffee with if you had lunch, dinner, or coffee with if you had lunch, dinner, or coffee with John Acuff. So, we'll catch you next John Acuff. So, we'll catch you next John Acuff. So, we'll catch you next time. In the meantime, I hope our time. In the meantime, I hope our time. In the meantime, I hope our conversation today has helped you conversation today has helped you conversation today has helped you identify and break a growth barrier identify and break a growth barrier identify and break a growth barrier you're facing.