Spotting Toxic People In Your Organization: 6 Signs Leaders Miss

first I am guessing that toxic behavior first I am guessing that toxic behavior and patterns has already cost you and patterns has already cost you and patterns has already cost you something significant I mean maybe you something significant I mean maybe you something significant I mean maybe you trusted in someone in leadership ended trusted in someone in leadership ended trusted in someone in leadership ended up being a disaster or you had some up being a disaster or you had some up being a disaster or you had some small groups go Rogue or you've got small groups go Rogue or you've got small groups go Rogue or you've got factions and divisions in your church factions and divisions in your church factions and divisions in your church that simply aren't healthy so if you that simply aren't healthy so if you that simply aren't healthy so if you allow toxic Behavior to continue it's allow toxic Behavior to continue it's allow toxic Behavior to continue it's going to cost you and it probably going to cost you and it probably going to cost you and it probably already has cost you that's the kind of already has cost you that's the kind of already has cost you that's the kind of thing that honestly for me it makes me thing that honestly for me it makes me thing that honestly for me it makes me lose sleep and it makes you question how lose sleep and it makes you question how lose sleep and it makes you question how much longer you can do this and it makes much longer you can do this and it makes much longer you can do this and it makes leadership so much harder than it needs leadership so much harder than it needs leadership so much harder than it needs to be so the question becomes what do to be so the question becomes what do to be so the question becomes what do you do about it I want to go deep with you do about it I want to go deep with you do about it I want to go deep with you welcome to the K newoff leadership you welcome to the K newoff leadership you welcome to the K newoff leadership podcast I'm so glad to have you join us podcast I'm so glad to have you join us podcast I'm so glad to have you join us and hey we are continuing with an and hey we are continuing with an and hey we are continuing with an experiment an experimental format on the experiment an experimental format on the experiment an experimental format on the podcast it's a solo episode Just Me No podcast it's a solo episode Just Me No podcast it's a solo episode Just Me No guest I'm going to be talking directly guest I'm going to be talking directly guest I'm going to be talking directly to you and these episodes these solo to you and these episodes these solo to you and these episodes these solo ones are going to be shorter than most ones are going to be shorter than most ones are going to be shorter than most under 30 minutes sometimes even a little under 30 minutes sometimes even a little under 30 minutes sometimes even a little bit shorter than that and as usual I bit shorter than that and as usual I bit shorter than that and as usual I hope it helps you thrive in life and hope it helps you thrive in life and hope it helps you thrive in life and Leadership so today I'm going to be Leadership so today I'm going to be Leadership so today I'm going to be talking about toxic people I want to talking about toxic people I want to talking about toxic people I want to help you spot a toxic person and I want help you spot a toxic person and I want help you spot a toxic person and I want to help you figure out how to eliminate to help you figure out how to eliminate to help you figure out how to eliminate their impact on your mission I mean their impact on your mission I mean their impact on your mission I mean there are obvious signs that somebody is there are obvious signs that somebody is there are obvious signs that somebody is toxic but after decades in leadership toxic but after decades in leadership toxic but after decades in leadership particularly in church leadership I particularly in church leadership I particularly in church leadership I think there are more subtle signs and in think there are more subtle signs and in think there are more subtle signs and in the early days I missed them and it cost the early days I missed them and it cost the early days I missed them and it cost us a lot us a lot us a lot and you know this I mean if you end up and you know this I mean if you end up and you know this I mean if you end up with toxicity in your church or business

with toxicity in your church or business with toxicity in your church or business it can be a real challenge to eliminate it can be a real challenge to eliminate it can be a real challenge to eliminate it and then on top of that you got to it and then on top of that you got to it and then on top of that you got to recover from it it's a mess okay so recover from it it's a mess okay so recover from it it's a mess okay so we're going to dive into the content in we're going to dive into the content in we're going to dive into the content in just a second as usual there are show just a second as usual there are show just a second as usual there are show notes for this you can get them at carne notes for this you can get them at carne notes for this you can get them at carne hof.com episode 658 or in the hof.com episode 658 or in the hof.com episode 658 or in the description of your podcast player so description of your podcast player so description of your podcast player so anything I talk about you can get the anything I talk about you can get the anything I talk about you can get the links there and I'm also going to be links there and I'm also going to be links there and I'm also going to be talking about Team Dynamics staff and talking about Team Dynamics staff and talking about Team Dynamics staff and volunteers alike so want to share two volunteers alike so want to share two volunteers alike so want to share two other resources that are going to help other resources that are going to help other resources that are going to help you dive deeper into the subject so you dive deeper into the subject so you dive deeper into the subject so first of all I've got a free guide that first of all I've got a free guide that first of all I've got a free guide that will help you have better one-on-one will help you have better one-on-one will help you have better one-on-one meetings this is so critical okay meetings this is so critical okay meetings this is so critical okay toxicity can start anywhere it can start toxicity can start anywhere it can start toxicity can start anywhere it can start with your one-on ones in this free with your one-on ones in this free with your one-on ones in this free one-on-one guide I outline five simple one-on-one guide I outline five simple one-on-one guide I outline five simple questions that every leader asks in questions that every leader asks in questions that every leader asks in their meetings with staff you should ask their meetings with staff you should ask their meetings with staff you should ask these questions just click the link in these questions just click the link in these questions just click the link in the description of this episode wherever the description of this episode wherever the description of this episode wherever you're listening your one-on ones are you're listening your one-on ones are you're listening your one-on ones are going to go a lot better they're going to go a lot better they're going to go a lot better they're probably going to get a lot healthier probably going to get a lot healthier probably going to get a lot healthier second you can get my comprehensive second you can get my comprehensive second you can get my comprehensive training on this in my course the art of training on this in my course the art of training on this in my course the art of team leadership so thousands of leaders team leadership so thousands of leaders team leadership so thousands of leaders have used this course to grow their have used this course to grow their have used this course to grow their leadership and in the process they leadership and in the process they leadership and in the process they learned how to lead better how to manage learned how to lead better how to manage learned how to lead better how to manage how to motivate I've got a couple of how to motivate I've got a couple of how to motivate I've got a couple of units on culture and creating a healthy units on culture and creating a healthy units on culture and creating a healthy culture again click the link in the culture again click the link in the culture again click the link in the description or visit the artof team description or visit the artof team description or visit the artof team leadership course.com now this episode leadership course.com now this episode leadership course.com now this episode is also brought to you by church. Tech is also brought to you by church. Tech is also brought to you by church. Tech so when I say Ai and Ministry what comes so when I say Ai and Ministry what comes so when I say Ai and Ministry what comes to mind like how does it make you feel to mind like how does it make you feel to mind like how does it make you feel so I know that in today's world of

so I know that in today's world of so I know that in today's world of ministry AI is a Hot Topic here's where ministry AI is a Hot Topic here's where ministry AI is a Hot Topic here's where I've landed AI when used ethically can I've landed AI when used ethically can I've landed AI when used ethically can help you take your ministry further and help you take your ministry further and help you take your ministry further and free up your time to Pastor your staff free up your time to Pastor your staff free up your time to Pastor your staff and congregation the key is to find a and congregation the key is to find a and congregation the key is to find a trusted partner and a trusted solution trusted partner and a trusted solution trusted partner and a trusted solution for me and for hundreds of other for me and for hundreds of other for me and for hundreds of other churches that solution has become churches that solution has become churches that solution has become church. te with over 85 years of church. te with over 85 years of church. te with over 85 years of combined Ministry experience church. combined Ministry experience church. combined Ministry experience church. Tech helps pastor reconnect with their Tech helps pastor reconnect with their Tech helps pastor reconnect with their communities by handling the tech side communities by handling the tech side communities by handling the tech side they prioritize ethical use of AI while they prioritize ethical use of AI while they prioritize ethical use of AI while they offer tools to reduce the time it they offer tools to reduce the time it they offer tools to reduce the time it takes to do everyday Ministry tasks so takes to do everyday Ministry tasks so takes to do everyday Ministry tasks so with church. tech you can quickly turn with church. tech you can quickly turn with church. tech you can quickly turn your weekly sermon into small group your weekly sermon into small group your weekly sermon into small group study guides complete with discussion study guides complete with discussion study guides complete with discussion questions summaries and engagement questions summaries and engagement questions summaries and engagement analytics you can do sermon clips for analytics you can do sermon clips for analytics you can do sermon clips for social media and a whole lot more yeah social media and a whole lot more yeah social media and a whole lot more yeah you may want to edit them but it's so you may want to edit them but it's so you may want to edit them but it's so much easier to edit than it is to start much easier to edit than it is to start much easier to edit than it is to start from scratch so if you want your church from scratch so if you want your church from scratch so if you want your church to really start to capitalize on AI to really start to capitalize on AI to really start to capitalize on AI ethically visit church. Tech and if you ethically visit church. Tech and if you ethically visit church. Tech and if you use the code carry C A R Y at checkout use the code carry C A R Y at checkout use the code carry C A R Y at checkout you'll get an exclusive 25% discount off you'll get an exclusive 25% discount off you'll get an exclusive 25% discount off your first three months so just head on your first three months so just head on your first three months so just head on over to church. Tech use the coupon code over to church. Tech use the coupon code over to church. Tech use the coupon code carry and uh well now let's dive into carry and uh well now let's dive into carry and uh well now let's dive into toxicity on the podcast so so many toxicity on the podcast so so many toxicity on the podcast so so many leaders I talk to I mean I get so many leaders I talk to I mean I get so many leaders I talk to I mean I get so many questions that's all about I got this questions that's all about I got this questions that's all about I got this toxic team member I got this toxic elder toxic team member I got this toxic elder toxic team member I got this toxic elder or we've got people in our church who or we've got people in our church who or we've got people in our church who are just causing damage now you see this are just causing damage now you see this are just causing damage now you see this in your churches see it in your

in your churches see it in your in your churches see it in your companies you see it in culture online companies you see it in culture online companies you see it in culture online on your team um you see it in your boss on your team um you see it in your boss on your team um you see it in your boss I mean I get it it's a big issue these I mean I get it it's a big issue these I mean I get it it's a big issue these days so here's a metaphor that might be days so here's a metaphor that might be days so here's a metaphor that might be helpful so I've seen it in our church as helpful so I've seen it in our church as helpful so I've seen it in our church as well and when our church was growing well and when our church was growing well and when our church was growing rapidly when I wasn't as strict on rapidly when I wasn't as strict on rapidly when I wasn't as strict on finding and dealing with toxic Behavior finding and dealing with toxic Behavior finding and dealing with toxic Behavior it felt like there were little pockets it felt like there were little pockets it felt like there were little pockets of toxicity that would move around of toxicity that would move around of toxicity that would move around randomly and our church like there was randomly and our church like there was randomly and our church like there was gossip over here and then infighting and gossip over here and then infighting and gossip over here and then infighting and then it sounded like there was some kind then it sounded like there was some kind then it sounded like there was some kind of toxic like pinball game being played of toxic like pinball game being played of toxic like pinball game being played sometimes unhealthy people would just sometimes unhealthy people would just sometimes unhealthy people would just bounce off one corner and then Ricochet bounce off one corner and then Ricochet bounce off one corner and then Ricochet off another and it was moving so fast I off another and it was moving so fast I off another and it was moving so fast I felt like I was playing like I couldn't felt like I was playing like I couldn't felt like I was playing like I couldn't keep up I I I couldn't see the pattern keep up I I I couldn't see the pattern keep up I I I couldn't see the pattern so what happened when I got tired of so what happened when I got tired of so what happened when I got tired of seeing that is I got better at spotting seeing that is I got better at spotting seeing that is I got better at spotting and learning how to eliminate toxic and learning how to eliminate toxic and learning how to eliminate toxic behavior in our church and guess what behavior in our church and guess what behavior in our church and guess what things got lot better now I realize some things got lot better now I realize some things got lot better now I realize some of you will be wondering why am I of you will be wondering why am I of you will be wondering why am I talking about toxicity when I'm a talking about toxicity when I'm a talking about toxicity when I'm a Christian after all what about Grace Christian after all what about Grace Christian after all what about Grace like isn't the church a hospital for like isn't the church a hospital for like isn't the church a hospital for Sinners none of us is healthy so it's Sinners none of us is healthy so it's Sinners none of us is healthy so it's inevitable right well couple of thoughts inevitable right well couple of thoughts inevitable right well couple of thoughts first I am guessing that toxic behavior first I am guessing that toxic behavior first I am guessing that toxic behavior and patterns has already cost you and patterns has already cost you and patterns has already cost you something significant I mean maybe you something significant I mean maybe you something significant I mean maybe you trusted in someone in leadership ended trusted in someone in leadership ended trusted in someone in leadership ended up being a disaster or you had some up being a disaster or you had some up being a disaster or you had some small groups go Rogue or you've got small groups go Rogue or you've got small groups go Rogue or you've got factions and divisions in your church factions and divisions in your church factions and divisions in your church that simply aren't healthy so if you

that simply aren't healthy so if you that simply aren't healthy so if you allow toxic Behavior to continue it's allow toxic Behavior to continue it's allow toxic Behavior to continue it's going to cost you and it probably going to cost you and it probably going to cost you and it probably already has cost you that's the kind of already has cost you that's the kind of already has cost you that's the kind of thing that honestly for me it makes me thing that honestly for me it makes me thing that honestly for me it makes me lose sleep and it makes you question how lose sleep and it makes you question how lose sleep and it makes you question how much longer you can do this and it makes much longer you can do this and it makes much longer you can do this and it makes leadership so much harder than it needs leadership so much harder than it needs leadership so much harder than it needs to be so the question becomes what do to be so the question becomes what do to be so the question becomes what do you do about it I want to go deep with you do about it I want to go deep with you do about it I want to go deep with you so first thing you should do take a you so first thing you should do take a you so first thing you should do take a good look in the mirror all right before good look in the mirror all right before good look in the mirror all right before we get into looking at the behaviors and we get into looking at the behaviors and we get into looking at the behaviors and patterns of other patterns of other patterns of other people take a look in the mirror I've people take a look in the mirror I've people take a look in the mirror I've been in senior leadership for almost been in senior leadership for almost been in senior leadership for almost three decades and as much as I don't three decades and as much as I don't three decades and as much as I don't want to admit it it's still true my want to admit it it's still true my want to admit it it's still true my organization will only ever be as organization will only ever be as organization will only ever be as healthy as I am and I have had healthy healthy as I am and I have had healthy healthy as I am and I have had healthy seasons and not healthy Seasons now the seasons and not healthy Seasons now the seasons and not healthy Seasons now the same principle is true for you you can same principle is true for you you can same principle is true for you you can fight toxicity all you want but your fight toxicity all you want but your fight toxicity all you want but your organization will only ever be as organization will only ever be as organization will only ever be as healthy as you are as the leader and healthy as you are as the leader and healthy as you are as the leader and you're saying well I'm not the senior you're saying well I'm not the senior you're saying well I'm not the senior leader okay even if you're not the leader okay even if you're not the leader okay even if you're not the senior leader your health determines the senior leader your health determines the senior leader your health determines the health of the team you lead the health of the team you lead the health of the team you lead the department you run or the crew you department you run or the crew you department you run or the crew you manage the health of the leader manage the health of the leader manage the health of the leader determines the health of the team and if determines the health of the team and if determines the health of the team and if you don't have a healthy organization you don't have a healthy organization you don't have a healthy organization it's probably because you don't have a it's probably because you don't have a it's probably because you don't have a healthy leader healthy leaders produce healthy leader healthy leaders produce healthy leader healthy leaders produce healthy teams unhealthy leaders produce healthy teams unhealthy leaders produce healthy teams unhealthy leaders produce unhealthy teams so as you listen to this unhealthy teams so as you listen to this unhealthy teams so as you listen to this podcast if any of these Behavior here podcast if any of these Behavior here podcast if any of these Behavior here are signs I'm going to go through sound are signs I'm going to go through sound are signs I'm going to go through sound a little bit too close to home maybe a little bit too close to home maybe a little bit too close to home maybe your call to action is to get some help

your call to action is to get some help your call to action is to get some help to get healthy a counselor and some good to get healthy a counselor and some good to get healthy a counselor and some good friends can be instrumental in that and friends can be instrumental in that and friends can be instrumental in that and there are obvious signs of toxicity there are obvious signs of toxicity there are obvious signs of toxicity we'll go into I won't spend a ton of we'll go into I won't spend a ton of we'll go into I won't spend a ton of time on then but there are also as I time on then but there are also as I time on then but there are also as I hinted at the beginning some subtle hinted at the beginning some subtle hinted at the beginning some subtle signs and I want to spend time on the signs and I want to spend time on the signs and I want to spend time on the subtle signs because they're easy to subtle signs because they're easy to subtle signs because they're easy to miss so I mean you know if you're miss so I mean you know if you're miss so I mean you know if you're looking at uh the obvious signs of toxic looking at uh the obvious signs of toxic looking at uh the obvious signs of toxic Behavior you're going to look at Behavior you're going to look at Behavior you're going to look at self-absorption self-absorption self-absorption lying manipulation an unwillingness to lying manipulation an unwillingness to lying manipulation an unwillingness to listen to feedback uh people who assign listen to feedback uh people who assign listen to feedback uh people who assign blame people who refuse to accept blame people who refuse to accept blame people who refuse to accept responsibility people who say they're responsibility people who say they're responsibility people who say they're never wrong people who play the victim never wrong people who play the victim never wrong people who play the victim or you get frequent outbursts of anger or you get frequent outbursts of anger or you get frequent outbursts of anger hidden agendas critical spirit about hidden agendas critical spirit about hidden agendas critical spirit about anything they didn't think of or don't anything they didn't think of or don't anything they didn't think of or don't like gossip or malicious talk ignoring like gossip or malicious talk ignoring like gossip or malicious talk ignoring boundaries passive aggressive behavior boundaries passive aggressive behavior boundaries passive aggressive behavior pursuing a different Mission than the pursuing a different Mission than the pursuing a different Mission than the organization's mission I mean those are organization's mission I mean those are organization's mission I mean those are all pretty obvious signs of toxic all pretty obvious signs of toxic all pretty obvious signs of toxic behavior and if you see any of those behavior and if you see any of those behavior and if you see any of those signs present it's wise to refrain from signs present it's wise to refrain from signs present it's wise to refrain from trusting someone in sen senior trusting someone in sen senior trusting someone in sen senior leadership or in leadership at all but leadership or in leadership at all but leadership or in leadership at all but there are more subtle signs as well and there are more subtle signs as well and there are more subtle signs as well and I want to review six that most leaders I want to review six that most leaders I want to review six that most leaders Miss so in addition to everything we Miss so in addition to everything we Miss so in addition to everything we talked about already here's the first talked about already here's the first talked about already here's the first sign number one they come on too strong sign number one they come on too strong sign number one they come on too strong in my experience as a leader the people in my experience as a leader the people in my experience as a leader the people who show up who show up who show up and want to make it headline news that and want to make it headline news that and want to make it headline news that they've arrived are rarely and I'm being they've arrived are rarely and I'm being they've arrived are rarely and I'm being generous here healthy people right when

generous here healthy people right when generous here healthy people right when they come in and it's like man you are they come in and it's like man you are they come in and it's like man you are so fortunate to have me here they just so fortunate to have me here they just so fortunate to have me here they just come on too strong right what's come on too strong right what's come on too strong right what's perplexing is that the people who end up perplexing is that the people who end up perplexing is that the people who end up being the most toxic at the end of the being the most toxic at the end of the being the most toxic at the end of the relationship are usually the people who relationship are usually the people who relationship are usually the people who are over-the-top positive when they are over-the-top positive when they are over-the-top positive when they first meet you they come on and they first meet you they come on and they first meet you they come on and they tell you like this is the best church tell you like this is the best church tell you like this is the best church ever and I have learned to be suspicious ever and I have learned to be suspicious ever and I have learned to be suspicious when people on their first visit say when people on their first visit say when people on their first visit say that's the best message I've ever heard that's the best message I've ever heard that's the best message I've ever heard in my life or this is the best church in my life or this is the best church in my life or this is the best church I've ever been to or you're the best I've ever been to or you're the best I've ever been to or you're the best leader I mean that's their first visit leader I mean that's their first visit leader I mean that's their first visit and they've taken the time to talk to and they've taken the time to talk to and they've taken the time to talk to you and this is what they're telling you you and this is what they're telling you you and this is what they're telling you now as much as my little fragile ego now as much as my little fragile ego now as much as my little fragile ego would love to believe what they're would love to believe what they're would love to believe what they're saying I usually find that if they're saying I usually find that if they're saying I usually find that if they're over-the-top positive at the beginning over-the-top positive at the beginning over-the-top positive at the beginning they become overthe toop negative at the they become overthe toop negative at the they become overthe toop negative at the end now what I'm looking for for healthy end now what I'm looking for for healthy end now what I'm looking for for healthy Behavior people who are moderately Behavior people who are moderately Behavior people who are moderately impressed or even neutral on their first impressed or even neutral on their first impressed or even neutral on their first visit and then gradually warm up tend to visit and then gradually warm up tend to visit and then gradually warm up tend to be the healthier people in the long run be the healthier people in the long run be the healthier people in the long run and know this people who come on strong and know this people who come on strong and know this people who come on strong when they first meet you usually leave when they first meet you usually leave when they first meet you usually leave just as loudly so a loud or over-the-top just as loudly so a loud or over-the-top just as loudly so a loud or over-the-top first meeting or first impression first meeting or first impression first meeting or first impression usually signals that something's a usually signals that something's a usually signals that something's a little bit off it's not always fatal but little bit off it's not always fatal but little bit off it's not always fatal but be wary so that's the first sign second be wary so that's the first sign second be wary so that's the first sign second sign and these are are subtle okay so sign and these are are subtle okay so sign and these are are subtle okay so you just got to you know they're not you just got to you know they're not you just got to you know they're not always the signs that you're looking for always the signs that you're looking for always the signs that you're looking for but when I've seen these and more than but when I've seen these and more than but when I've seen these and more than one is present my anten I go up so the

one is present my anten I go up so the one is present my anten I go up so the second sign is when people give you second sign is when people give you second sign is when people give you advice during your first meeting so advice during your first meeting so advice during your first meeting so whether that meeting is a casual whether that meeting is a casual whether that meeting is a casual conversation over coffee a conversation conversation over coffee a conversation conversation over coffee a conversation in the hallway or even a job interview in the hallway or even a job interview in the hallway or even a job interview where you're interviewing someone for where you're interviewing someone for where you're interviewing someone for the job people who tell you 15 ways you the job people who tell you 15 ways you the job people who tell you 15 ways you can improve your organization or your can improve your organization or your can improve your organization or your public speaking often end up being toxic public speaking often end up being toxic public speaking often end up being toxic people I was talking to to a leader people I was talking to to a leader people I was talking to to a leader recently he had this exact scenario the recently he had this exact scenario the recently he had this exact scenario the person was completely qualified for person was completely qualified for person was completely qualified for something they wanted to do but he was something they wanted to do but he was something they wanted to do but he was already criticizing the organization in already criticizing the organization in already criticizing the organization in the first interview I mean this is not the first interview I mean this is not the first interview I mean this is not good folks this is not good okay are good folks this is not good okay are good folks this is not good okay are there any ways you can improve your there any ways you can improve your there any ways you can improve your organization well of course can I organization well of course can I organization well of course can I improve my public speaking yes I can but improve my public speaking yes I can but improve my public speaking yes I can but when someone leads off with loads of when someone leads off with loads of when someone leads off with loads of advice well that isn't healthy I mean advice well that isn't healthy I mean advice well that isn't healthy I mean think about it if you're going to meet a think about it if you're going to meet a think about it if you're going to meet a hero of yours and you're like man I hero of yours and you're like man I hero of yours and you're like man I loved all your sermons I've listened to loved all your sermons I've listened to loved all your sermons I've listened to them but three things you could do to be them but three things you could do to be them but three things you could do to be a better preacher include one two three a better preacher include one two three a better preacher include one two three I mean that's not healthy right so what I mean that's not healthy right so what I mean that's not healthy right so what it shows when people give you advice on it shows when people give you advice on it shows when people give you advice on the first meeting is that they lack the first meeting is that they lack the first meeting is that they lack humility or they might be low in humility or they might be low in humility or they might be low in self-awareness or they don't have a self-awareness or they don't have a self-awareness or they don't have a particularly High EQ when people I first particularly High EQ when people I first particularly High EQ when people I first meet start telling me about all the ways meet start telling me about all the ways meet start telling me about all the ways that we can improve our church I thank that we can improve our church I thank that we can improve our church I thank them and I tell them point blankly we them and I tell them point blankly we them and I tell them point blankly we might not be the church for them and might not be the church for them and might not be the church for them and then sometimes I offer to help them find then sometimes I offer to help them find then sometimes I offer to help them find a new one it's just a sign at a bare a new one it's just a sign at a bare a new one it's just a sign at a bare minimum I do not put them into minimum I do not put them into minimum I do not put them into leadership okay third subtle sign the

leadership okay third subtle sign the leadership okay third subtle sign the relationship isn't reciprocal so in a relationship isn't reciprocal so in a relationship isn't reciprocal so in a healthy human relationship there's healthy human relationship there's healthy human relationship there's mutuality and there's reciprocity in mutuality and there's reciprocity in mutuality and there's reciprocity in unhealthy relationships one person will unhealthy relationships one person will unhealthy relationships one person will tend to dominate so this can show up in tend to dominate so this can show up in tend to dominate so this can show up in a couple of ways first of all it happens a couple of ways first of all it happens a couple of ways first of all it happens when the other person just dominates when the other person just dominates when the other person just dominates they want to be seen they want to be they want to be seen they want to be they want to be seen they want to be heard noticed and they really like heard noticed and they really like heard noticed and they really like monopolize the conversation there's no monopolize the conversation there's no monopolize the conversation there's no given take a second way this expresses given take a second way this expresses given take a second way this expresses is the opposite perhaps you have to do is the opposite perhaps you have to do is the opposite perhaps you have to do all the initiating you have to do all all the initiating you have to do all all the initiating you have to do all the discussion you have to do the the discussion you have to do the the discussion you have to do the follow-up they're just too reserved see follow-up they're just too reserved see follow-up they're just too reserved see healthy relationships are mutual there's healthy relationships are mutual there's healthy relationships are mutual there's a back in forth and in the end it's a back in forth and in the end it's a back in forth and in the end it's almost an equal exchange now the danger almost an equal exchange now the danger almost an equal exchange now the danger here for leaders is that you probably here for leaders is that you probably here for leaders is that you probably won't end up putting a person who's too won't end up putting a person who's too won't end up putting a person who's too quiet or withdrawn into leadership but quiet or withdrawn into leadership but quiet or withdrawn into leadership but you might put the outspoken talks a lot you might put the outspoken talks a lot you might put the outspoken talks a lot dominant person into dominant person into dominant person into leadership and that can be a mistake leadership and that can be a mistake leadership and that can be a mistake because if they don't give air time to because if they don't give air time to because if they don't give air time to anybody else they're not going to be an anybody else they're not going to be an anybody else they're not going to be an effective leader what you're looking for effective leader what you're looking for effective leader what you're looking for is reciprocity if you don't see that is reciprocity if you don't see that is reciprocity if you don't see that beware okay fourth characteristic is a beware okay fourth characteristic is a beware okay fourth characteristic is a little a little bit like it but I think little a little bit like it but I think little a little bit like it but I think it deserves its own focus and that is it deserves its own focus and that is it deserves its own focus and that is they want to be the center of attention they want to be the center of attention they want to be the center of attention watch for people who hijack watch for people who hijack watch for people who hijack conversations who never ask questions conversations who never ask questions conversations who never ask questions who think they're experts who want to

who think they're experts who want to who think they're experts who want to get involved too soon who everything is get involved too soon who everything is get involved too soon who everything is about them those people those people about them those people those people about them those people those people often want to tell you what they think often want to tell you what they think often want to tell you what they think they're an expert in they tell you what they're an expert in they tell you what they're an expert in they tell you what they think about everything they tell they think about everything they tell they think about everything they tell you about their amazing track record you about their amazing track record you about their amazing track record they talk about their accomplishments they talk about their accomplishments they talk about their accomplishments they demand your attention and you know they demand your attention and you know they demand your attention and you know what there's what there's what there's something like luring about that it kind something like luring about that it kind something like luring about that it kind of lures you in cuz you're like wow of lures you in cuz you're like wow of lures you in cuz you're like wow these people are spectacular they're these people are spectacular they're these people are spectacular they're great and maybe it's true maybe they great and maybe it's true maybe they great and maybe it's true maybe they have all of these accomplishments let's have all of these accomplishments let's have all of these accomplishments let's give them benefit of the doubt and let's give them benefit of the doubt and let's give them benefit of the doubt and let's just say that there isn't a lot of just say that there isn't a lot of just say that there isn't a lot of hyperbole in what they're saying but you hyperbole in what they're saying but you hyperbole in what they're saying but you know what I've noticed truly healthy know what I've noticed truly healthy know what I've noticed truly healthy people who have significant people who have significant people who have significant accomplishments wait to be asked they accomplishments wait to be asked they accomplishments wait to be asked they wait to be asked so if somebody has wait to be asked so if somebody has wait to be asked so if somebody has spent the first 10 minutes telling you spent the first 10 minutes telling you spent the first 10 minutes telling you how awesome they are they might not be how awesome they are they might not be how awesome they are they might not be that awesome all right Point number five that awesome all right Point number five that awesome all right Point number five you hear from them far too often in the you hear from them far too often in the you hear from them far too often in the first 30 days so often a toxic person first 30 days so often a toxic person first 30 days so often a toxic person because they like being the center of because they like being the center of because they like being the center of attention will try to get on your attention will try to get on your attention will try to get on your calendar soon they'll email you they'll calendar soon they'll email you they'll calendar soon they'll email you they'll call you they'll ask for breakfast call you they'll ask for breakfast call you they'll ask for breakfast they'll act like you are their best they'll act like you are their best they'll act like you are their best friend as they're still getting to know friend as they're still getting to know friend as they're still getting to know you and they're going to try to figure you and they're going to try to figure you and they're going to try to figure out how they can help or be influential out how they can help or be influential out how they can help or be influential early on now that again that can seem early on now that again that can seem early on now that again that can seem like a fantastic thing after all you're like a fantastic thing after all you're like a fantastic thing after all you're dying for someone to own the mission and dying for someone to own the mission and dying for someone to own the mission and take initiative and again though the take initiative and again though the take initiative and again though the truly great leaders will wait to be truly great leaders will wait to be truly great leaders will wait to be asked they have a lot of other things asked they have a lot of other things asked they have a lot of other things going on they're busy they respect you

going on they're busy they respect you going on they're busy they respect you so often the amazing leaders they're so often the amazing leaders they're so often the amazing leaders they're more reciprocal they're not as dominant more reciprocal they're not as dominant more reciprocal they're not as dominant and they wait to be asked they have the and they wait to be asked they have the and they wait to be asked they have the humility to be obscure for a little humility to be obscure for a little humility to be obscure for a little while these are the great leaders and while these are the great leaders and while these are the great leaders and serve rather than want to be served all serve rather than want to be served all serve rather than want to be served all right another sign to look for and this right another sign to look for and this right another sign to look for and this is the final one I want to share with is the final one I want to share with is the final one I want to share with you they have a track record of moving you they have a track record of moving you they have a track record of moving around so usually a person who comes on around so usually a person who comes on around so usually a person who comes on strong has a history of moving around so strong has a history of moving around so strong has a history of moving around so they'll be like you know man this is the they'll be like you know man this is the they'll be like you know man this is the best church ever you're the best best church ever you're the best best church ever you're the best preacher ever now what they've done is preacher ever now what they've done is preacher ever now what they've done is they've said that to five different they've said that to five different they've said that to five different preachers over the past 10 years and preachers over the past 10 years and preachers over the past 10 years and when I'm picking up some of the other when I'm picking up some of the other when I'm picking up some of the other signs I'll ask a question such as tell signs I'll ask a question such as tell signs I'll ask a question such as tell me where you've gone to church over the me where you've gone to church over the me where you've gone to church over the last few years years and then it'll be last few years years and then it'll be last few years years and then it'll be like well I tried Church X and it wasn't like well I tried Church X and it wasn't like well I tried Church X and it wasn't this and I tried Church Y and it wasn't this and I tried Church Y and it wasn't this and I tried Church Y and it wasn't this and often they'll tell me about this and often they'll tell me about this and often they'll tell me about three or four different churches they've three or four different churches they've three or four different churches they've been to Major flag or about a Schism been to Major flag or about a Schism been to Major flag or about a Schism that they were part of that caused them that they were part of that caused them that they were part of that caused them to leave their last church that's a big to leave their last church that's a big to leave their last church that's a big flag and when that happens you know flag and when that happens you know flag and when that happens you know here's the hint if somebody has left here's the hint if somebody has left here's the hint if somebody has left five churches in the last five years five churches in the last five years five churches in the last five years they're probably going to leave yours they're probably going to leave yours they're probably going to leave yours too so what do you do well I had a too so what do you do well I had a too so what do you do well I had a leader who exhibited a few of these leader who exhibited a few of these leader who exhibited a few of these signs and he had been the chair of the signs and he had been the chair of the signs and he had been the chair of the board at another church that had just board at another church that had just board at another church that had just undergone a split came on strong and I undergone a split came on strong and I undergone a split came on strong and I said to him hey really glad to meet you said to him hey really glad to meet you said to him hey really glad to meet you I've heard a lot about you really glad I've heard a lot about you really glad I've heard a lot about you really glad you're here here's what I'd love for you

you're here here's what I'd love for you you're here here's what I'd love for you to do I'd love you to sit in the back to do I'd love you to sit in the back to do I'd love you to sit in the back row and observe our church for 6 months row and observe our church for 6 months row and observe our church for 6 months and after 6 months tell me what you and after 6 months tell me what you and after 6 months tell me what you found now that was a little bit of a found now that was a little bit of a found now that was a little bit of a test and it was a test because I wanted test and it was a test because I wanted test and it was a test because I wanted to know whether he had the ability to be to know whether he had the ability to be to know whether he had the ability to be a follower not just just a leader you a follower not just just a leader you a follower not just just a leader you know what he passed that test with know what he passed that test with know what he passed that test with flying colors he went on to serve in flying colors he went on to serve in flying colors he went on to serve in leadership to become an elder to become leadership to become an elder to become leadership to become an elder to become a great friend and he said to me at one a great friend and he said to me at one a great friend and he said to me at one point after he said you know when you point after he said you know when you point after he said you know when you benched me for 6 months I was so mad but benched me for 6 months I was so mad but benched me for 6 months I was so mad but he said it was exactly what I needed he said it was exactly what I needed he said it was exactly what I needed because he said I had just come out of a because he said I had just come out of a because he said I had just come out of a really volatile situation I was charged really volatile situation I was charged really volatile situation I was charged up and he said I needed 6 months just to up and he said I needed 6 months just to up and he said I needed 6 months just to recalibrate so what that tells me in a recalibrate so what that tells me in a recalibrate so what that tells me in a case like my friend that I just case like my friend that I just case like my friend that I just described is he had the humility to wait described is he had the humility to wait described is he had the humility to wait he had the capacity to become a very he had the capacity to become a very he had the capacity to become a very healthy leader in him if someone is healthy leader in him if someone is healthy leader in him if someone is truly toxic they won't do that so I want truly toxic they won't do that so I want truly toxic they won't do that so I want to recap the six signs and then I want to recap the six signs and then I want to recap the six signs and then I want to talk about what do you do about all to talk about what do you do about all to talk about what do you do about all of this so again these are these are of this so again these are these are of this so again these are these are like similar but different enough that like similar but different enough that like similar but different enough that they deserve their own points and if they deserve their own points and if they deserve their own points and if you've got a cluster of them watch out you've got a cluster of them watch out you've got a cluster of them watch out so sign one they come on too strong so sign one they come on too strong so sign one they come on too strong number two they give you advice during number two they give you advice during number two they give you advice during during your first meeting number three during your first meeting number three during your first meeting number three the relationship is not reciprocal the relationship is not reciprocal the relationship is not reciprocal number four they want to be the center number four they want to be the center number four they want to be the center of attention number five you hear from of attention number five you hear from of attention number five you hear from them far too often number six they have them far too often number six they have them far too often number six they have a track record of moving around if a track record of moving around if a track record of moving around if you've got a few of those you're you've got a few of those you're you've got a few of those you're probably dealing with someone who isn't

probably dealing with someone who isn't probably dealing with someone who isn't healthy so now that you know the signs healthy so now that you know the signs healthy so now that you know the signs the subtle signs what do you do with all the subtle signs what do you do with all the subtle signs what do you do with all of that well I want to borrow heavily of that well I want to borrow heavily of that well I want to borrow heavily from Henry Cloud here but I need you to from Henry Cloud here but I need you to from Henry Cloud here but I need you to understand and this is what I had to understand and this is what I had to understand and this is what I had to figure out they BAS basically three figure out they BAS basically three figure out they BAS basically three kinds of people it probably seems too kinds of people it probably seems too kinds of people it probably seems too simple to divide the world into three simple to divide the world into three simple to divide the world into three kinds of people but try as you might to kinds of people but try as you might to kinds of people but try as you might to avoid it clinical psychologist avoid it clinical psychologist avoid it clinical psychologist best-selling author Henry Cloud best-selling author Henry Cloud best-selling author Henry Cloud helpfully points this out in his book helpfully points this out in his book helpfully points this out in his book necessary endings and he says I resist necessary endings and he says I resist necessary endings and he says I resist this but at the end of the day there's this but at the end of the day there's this but at the end of the day there's three kinds of people in life and three kinds of people in life and three kinds of people in life and Leadership they're wise people foolish Leadership they're wise people foolish Leadership they're wise people foolish people and evil people I'll say that one people and evil people I'll say that one people and evil people I'll say that one more time wise foolish and evil so more time wise foolish and evil so more time wise foolish and evil so essentially the difference between wise essentially the difference between wise essentially the difference between wise people and foolish people comes down to people and foolish people comes down to people and foolish people comes down to how they deal with the truth so when how they deal with the truth so when how they deal with the truth so when you're dealing with wise and foolish you're dealing with wise and foolish you're dealing with wise and foolish wise people encounter the truth they're wise people encounter the truth they're wise people encounter the truth they're like oh if I do that it bothers people like oh if I do that it bothers people like oh if I do that it bothers people and they change as a result they're like and they change as a result they're like and they change as a result they're like I can't do that anymore or hey if I I can't do that anymore or hey if I I can't do that anymore or hey if I spend too much money I end up in debt I spend too much money I end up in debt I spend too much money I end up in debt I can't spend that much money or I need to can't spend that much money or I need to can't spend that much money or I need to go make more money in other words they go make more money in other words they go make more money in other words they see the truth and it changes them so uh see the truth and it changes them so uh see the truth and it changes them so uh you know you can use a million examples you know you can use a million examples you know you can use a million examples after getting a spe speeding ticket wise after getting a spe speeding ticket wise after getting a spe speeding ticket wise people learn and they slow down now people learn and they slow down now people learn and they slow down now foolish people do the opposite they foolish people do the opposite they foolish people do the opposite they encounter truth but they don't change encounter truth but they don't change encounter truth but they don't change they expect reality to change they get a they expect reality to change they get a they expect reality to change they get a speeding ticket they're like well that speeding ticket they're like well that speeding ticket they're like well that was dumb and they got a million excuses was dumb and they got a million excuses was dumb and they got a million excuses and they go on speeding and they get and they go on speeding and they get and they go on speeding and they get another one you know they spend too much

another one you know they spend too much another one you know they spend too much money and eventually they go bankrupt money and eventually they go bankrupt money and eventually they go bankrupt confronted with a problem a foolish confronted with a problem a foolish confronted with a problem a foolish person will deny blame minimize generate person will deny blame minimize generate person will deny blame minimize generate excuses and really do anything in his or excuses and really do anything in his or excuses and really do anything in his or her power to avoid having to come to her power to avoid having to come to her power to avoid having to come to terms with reality they don't learn and terms with reality they don't learn and terms with reality they don't learn and they rarely grow as Cloud's frequent they rarely grow as Cloud's frequent they rarely grow as Cloud's frequent collaborator John Townsen puts it collaborator John Townsen puts it collaborator John Townsen puts it foolish people have a flat learning foolish people have a flat learning foolish people have a flat learning curve man I love that phrase and as a curve man I love that phrase and as a curve man I love that phrase and as a result they tend to wreak a lot of havoc result they tend to wreak a lot of havoc result they tend to wreak a lot of havoc and they cause damage to their own lives and they cause damage to their own lives and they cause damage to their own lives and the lives of others now they don't and the lives of others now they don't and the lives of others now they don't mean to hurt anybody they just never mean to hurt anybody they just never mean to hurt anybody they just never really learn and as a result they're really learn and as a result they're really learn and as a result they're foolish now the Third Kind of person as foolish now the Third Kind of person as foolish now the Third Kind of person as hard as it is to admit are evil people hard as it is to admit are evil people hard as it is to admit are evil people and here's the difference evil people and here's the difference evil people and here's the difference evil people intend to harm you they want to take you intend to harm you they want to take you intend to harm you they want to take you down as hard as it is to believe they do down as hard as it is to believe they do down as hard as it is to believe they do not have your best interest at heart not have your best interest at heart not have your best interest at heart they want to see you and your mission they want to see you and your mission they want to see you and your mission fail I found this like really hard to fail I found this like really hard to fail I found this like really hard to accept early on in leadership but I've accept early on in leadership but I've accept early on in leadership but I've seen it enough times to agree with Henry seen it enough times to agree with Henry seen it enough times to agree with Henry cloud and no longer dismiss it so what cloud and no longer dismiss it so what cloud and no longer dismiss it so what do you do with this Stark and unpleasant do you do with this Stark and unpleasant do you do with this Stark and unpleasant truth truth truth uh second thing and this one's hard you uh second thing and this one's hard you uh second thing and this one's hard you just have to realize some people are not just have to realize some people are not just have to realize some people are not going to change at some point in our going to change at some point in our going to change at some point in our lives we all have a mixture of that lives we all have a mixture of that lives we all have a mixture of that behavior in us you know sometimes we're behavior in us you know sometimes we're behavior in us you know sometimes we're wise sometimes we're foolish once in a wise sometimes we're foolish once in a wise sometimes we're foolish once in a while we do an evil thing and I know while we do an evil thing and I know while we do an evil thing and I know I've spoken words that I intended to I've spoken words that I intended to I've spoken words that I intended to hurt people and when I do that I'm

hurt people and when I do that I'm hurt people and when I do that I'm acting in an evil or toxic way but acting in an evil or toxic way but acting in an evil or toxic way but hopefully I realize okay I can't do that hopefully I realize okay I can't do that hopefully I realize okay I can't do that I need to repent I need to apologize I I need to repent I need to apologize I I need to repent I need to apologize I need to make that good when I have need to make that good when I have need to make that good when I have foolish Behavior hopefully I learn it's foolish Behavior hopefully I learn it's foolish Behavior hopefully I learn it's like all right that isn't going to like all right that isn't going to like all right that isn't going to change so I need to change people who change so I need to change people who change so I need to change people who are wise um are people who learn from are wise um are people who learn from are wise um are people who learn from their mistakes and change now the good their mistakes and change now the good their mistakes and change now the good news with Cloud's categories of wise news with Cloud's categories of wise news with Cloud's categories of wise foolish and evil people is that some foolish and evil people is that some foolish and evil people is that some people do change with time and they'll people do change with time and they'll people do change with time and they'll grow evil people may have a change of grow evil people may have a change of grow evil people may have a change of heart and start helping not hurting and heart and start helping not hurting and heart and start helping not hurting and that's amazing I mean that can happen that's amazing I mean that can happen that's amazing I mean that can happen foolish people they can see the light of foolish people they can see the light of foolish people they can see the light of day and change but overall most of us day and change but overall most of us day and change but overall most of us would have to admit that some human would have to admit that some human would have to admit that some human beings fall into one of those three beings fall into one of those three beings fall into one of those three categories at most moments in life categories at most moments in life categories at most moments in life you're either generally a wise person you're either generally a wise person you're either generally a wise person you're generally a foolish person or you're generally a foolish person or you're generally a foolish person or some people they really are evil they some people they really are evil they some people they really are evil they intend to harm and that means as much as intend to harm and that means as much as intend to harm and that means as much as you want to believe otherwise despite you want to believe otherwise despite you want to believe otherwise despite your coaching and encouragement fools your coaching and encouragement fools your coaching and encouragement fools sometimes remain fools and evil people sometimes remain fools and evil people sometimes remain fools and evil people remain committed to harming others and I remain committed to harming others and I remain committed to harming others and I know that sounds so depressing and know that sounds so depressing and know that sounds so depressing and judgmental and terrible but if you want judgmental and terrible but if you want judgmental and terrible but if you want to protect your to protect your to protect your organization you got to be able to organization you got to be able to organization you got to be able to handle that Henry Cloud puts it this way handle that Henry Cloud puts it this way handle that Henry Cloud puts it this way he says if you are responsible it's a he says if you are responsible it's a he says if you are responsible it's a direct quote if you are a responsible direct quote if you are a responsible direct quote if you are a responsible and loving person then you might assume and loving person then you might assume and loving person then you might assume that other people are like you that other people are like you that other people are like you responsible and loving they do the right responsible and loving they do the right responsible and loving they do the right thing taking responsibility for

thing taking responsibility for thing taking responsibility for themselves for their mistakes for their themselves for their mistakes for their themselves for their mistakes for their work and they care about other people work and they care about other people work and they care about other people and how those actions affect people so and how those actions affect people so and how those actions affect people so doesn't it make sense that everybody doesn't it make sense that everybody doesn't it make sense that everybody would be like you and really care and would be like you and really care and would be like you and really care and then he says yeah sure if you live on then he says yeah sure if you live on then he says yeah sure if you live on Mars but this is planet Earth and if Mars but this is planet Earth and if Mars but this is planet Earth and if you're going to succeed in life and in you're going to succeed in life and in you're going to succeed in life and in business you need to succeed on this business you need to succeed on this business you need to succeed on this planet not on Mars in other words there planet not on Mars in other words there planet not on Mars in other words there are wise people foolish people and evil are wise people foolish people and evil are wise people foolish people and evil people so now this is where your people so now this is where your people so now this is where your leadership and discernment comes in leadership and discernment comes in leadership and discernment comes in you've spotted toxic Behavior you know you've spotted toxic Behavior you know you've spotted toxic Behavior you know what foolish behavior is what do you do what foolish behavior is what do you do what foolish behavior is what do you do you limit fools okay that's step one and you limit fools okay that's step one and you limit fools okay that's step one and this is the problem with foolish people this is the problem with foolish people this is the problem with foolish people at work you only have so many hours in at work you only have so many hours in at work you only have so many hours in the day and you only have so much energy the day and you only have so much energy the day and you only have so much energy the problem if you have fools around the problem if you have fools around the problem if you have fools around either on your team or in key volunteer either on your team or in key volunteer either on your team or in key volunteer positions when you pour your time and positions when you pour your time and positions when you pour your time and energy into foolish leaders who never energy into foolish leaders who never energy into foolish leaders who never change after all of your coaching and change after all of your coaching and change after all of your coaching and all of your help they're no better and all of your help they're no better and all of your help they're no better and you're drained what's worse is their you're drained what's worse is their you're drained what's worse is their repeated mistakes impact everybody repeated mistakes impact everybody repeated mistakes impact everybody around them and they threaten the around them and they threaten the around them and they threaten the organization organization organization does that mean you'll have no fools at does that mean you'll have no fools at does that mean you'll have no fools at work well no there's an abundance of work well no there's an abundance of work well no there's an abundance of foolish people in behaviors and I'm not foolish people in behaviors and I'm not foolish people in behaviors and I'm not sure that you should eliminate all fools sure that you should eliminate all fools sure that you should eliminate all fools from your life you could have a little from your life you could have a little from your life you could have a little place for people who need some help but place for people who need some help but place for people who need some help but you don't want them on your senior team you don't want them on your senior team you don't want them on your senior team I mean the person who's perpetually late I mean the person who's perpetually late I mean the person who's perpetually late frustrates everybody the person who frustrates everybody the person who frustrates everybody the person who never takes responsibility frustrates

never takes responsibility frustrates never takes responsibility frustrates everybody what it does mean is because everybody what it does mean is because everybody what it does mean is because your time is limited you should limit your time is limited you should limit your time is limited you should limit your time with foolish people and be your time with foolish people and be your time with foolish people and be really careful about who you hire who really careful about who you hire who really careful about who you hire who you recruit and who you allow into you recruit and who you allow into you recruit and who you allow into leadership volunteer or paid staff the leadership volunteer or paid staff the leadership volunteer or paid staff the key to handling foolish Behavior so it key to handling foolish Behavior so it key to handling foolish Behavior so it doesn't impact your mission is to limit doesn't impact your mission is to limit doesn't impact your mission is to limit the number of foolish people in the number of foolish people in the number of foolish people in leadership hopefully it gets down to leadership hopefully it gets down to leadership hopefully it gets down to zero and limit their impact otherwise zero and limit their impact otherwise zero and limit their impact otherwise the cost is simply too great whether the cost is simply too great whether the cost is simply too great whether they mean to do damage or not foolish they mean to do damage or not foolish they mean to do damage or not foolish people can do a lot of damage and it's people can do a lot of damage and it's people can do a lot of damage and it's hard to build the future on people who hard to build the future on people who hard to build the future on people who can't even navigate the present okay so can't even navigate the present okay so can't even navigate the present okay so that's foolish people what about evil that's foolish people what about evil that's foolish people what about evil people well when it comes to evil people people well when it comes to evil people people well when it comes to evil people people who want to wound and maim or people who want to wound and maim or people who want to wound and maim or undo your organization I agree with undo your organization I agree with undo your organization I agree with Henry Cloud there's only one option Henry Cloud there's only one option Henry Cloud there's only one option block them get away and stay away block them get away and stay away block them get away and stay away looking back on my leadership because I looking back on my leadership because I looking back on my leadership because I tend to be very trusting I realized tend to be very trusting I realized tend to be very trusting I realized there were seasons for whatever reason there were seasons for whatever reason there were seasons for whatever reason where people wanted to take me out or where people wanted to take me out or where people wanted to take me out or take down our mission hasn't happened a take down our mission hasn't happened a take down our mission hasn't happened a lot but but it has happened and lot but but it has happened and lot but but it has happened and sometimes I was too generous with those sometimes I was too generous with those sometimes I was too generous with those people I thought well maybe they don't people I thought well maybe they don't people I thought well maybe they don't mean that or maybe they want to change mean that or maybe they want to change mean that or maybe they want to change and or maybe I can just do something and or maybe I can just do something and or maybe I can just do something differently and you know what didn't differently and you know what didn't differently and you know what didn't work out well at all so what you need work out well at all so what you need work out well at all so what you need clear boundaries firm decisions and clear boundaries firm decisions and clear boundaries firm decisions and consistent NOS that block any attempt consistent NOS that block any attempt consistent NOS that block any attempt they make to undermine the mission those

they make to undermine the mission those they make to undermine the mission those are critical so when it gets that are critical so when it gets that are critical so when it gets that serious I always involve other leaders I serious I always involve other leaders I serious I always involve other leaders I trust to make sure that we're really trust to make sure that we're really trust to make sure that we're really dealing with some someone who intends to dealing with some someone who intends to dealing with some someone who intends to harm that I'm not misdiagnosing and that harm that I'm not misdiagnosing and that harm that I'm not misdiagnosing and that the boundaries that we put in place make the boundaries that we put in place make the boundaries that we put in place make sense on rare occasions and believe it sense on rare occasions and believe it sense on rare occasions and believe it or not this has happened a couple of or not this has happened a couple of or not this has happened a couple of times those boundaries have had to times those boundaries have had to times those boundaries have had to include the police people were just out include the police people were just out include the police people were just out to harm us and we had to involve the to harm us and we had to involve the to harm us and we had to involve the authorities so my faith tells me to love authorities so my faith tells me to love authorities so my faith tells me to love my enemies but there are some instances my enemies but there are some instances my enemies but there are some instances where a person is best prayed for from a where a person is best prayed for from a where a person is best prayed for from a distance not up close so you know distance not up close so you know distance not up close so you know imagine reaching a 100 or a, or 10,000 imagine reaching a 100 or a, or 10,000 imagine reaching a 100 or a, or 10,000 new people in the next year if your new people in the next year if your new people in the next year if your mission continues that's what the people mission continues that's what the people mission continues that's what the people who want to harm you threaten that's who want to harm you threaten that's who want to harm you threaten that's what they're taking down so taking the what they're taking down so taking the what they're taking down so taking the mission seriously means that as a leader mission seriously means that as a leader mission seriously means that as a leader you also have to take evil seriously you also have to take evil seriously you also have to take evil seriously it's actually that important so we've it's actually that important so we've it's actually that important so we've dealt with foolish people with evil dealt with foolish people with evil dealt with foolish people with evil people what do you do with wise people people what do you do with wise people people what do you do with wise people and the answer to that is beautiful my and the answer to that is beautiful my and the answer to that is beautiful my favorite stack the top of your favorite stack the top of your favorite stack the top of your organization with wise people you know organization with wise people you know organization with wise people you know how to get the healthiest team and how how to get the healthiest team and how how to get the healthiest team and how to get the best team possible to move to get the best team possible to move to get the best team possible to move the mission forward stack the top of the mission forward stack the top of the mission forward stack the top of your organization that's a volunteer and your organization that's a volunteer and your organization that's a volunteer and staff Elders board with as many wise staff Elders board with as many wise staff Elders board with as many wise people as you can find this doesn't mean people as you can find this doesn't mean people as you can find this doesn't mean they all agree with you all right these they all agree with you all right these they all agree with you all right these are just wise people who make great are just wise people who make great are just wise people who make great choices who see the truth and correct choices who see the truth and correct choices who see the truth and correct themselves rather than expecting the

themselves rather than expecting the themselves rather than expecting the truth to change by stacking the top I truth to change by stacking the top I truth to change by stacking the top I mean your senior leaders your board and mean your senior leaders your board and mean your senior leaders your board and other key players you want to look for other key players you want to look for other key players you want to look for honest humble growing leaders who love honest humble growing leaders who love honest humble growing leaders who love to learn who are open to feedback and to learn who are open to feedback and to learn who are open to feedback and who are wise teachability is a much who are wise teachability is a much who are wise teachability is a much greater ingredient in wisdom than IQ is greater ingredient in wisdom than IQ is greater ingredient in wisdom than IQ is a humble hungry teachable leader will be a humble hungry teachable leader will be a humble hungry teachable leader will be a smarter leader any day and a smarter leader any day and a smarter leader any day and surprisingly you know there are a lot of surprisingly you know there are a lot of surprisingly you know there are a lot of people out there you just got to look people out there you just got to look people out there you just got to look for them and again remember they're for them and again remember they're for them and again remember they're reluctant sometimes to step forward so reluctant sometimes to step forward so reluctant sometimes to step forward so obviously there's a lot of work to do obviously there's a lot of work to do obviously there's a lot of work to do based on the points we've already based on the points we've already based on the points we've already covered and the regular vigilance that covered and the regular vigilance that covered and the regular vigilance that you need to maintain and keeping threats you need to maintain and keeping threats you need to maintain and keeping threats at Bay but the secret is that once you at Bay but the secret is that once you at Bay but the secret is that once you do the work we've talked about so far in do the work we've talked about so far in do the work we've talked about so far in this pod and stack the top of your this pod and stack the top of your this pod and stack the top of your organization with wise people a natural organization with wise people a natural organization with wise people a natural buffer against toxic Behavior gets buffer against toxic Behavior gets buffer against toxic Behavior gets created eventually a multiplicity of created eventually a multiplicity of created eventually a multiplicity of wise leaders will help you create a wise leaders will help you create a wise leaders will help you create a healthy culture because here's what's healthy culture because here's what's healthy culture because here's what's true about culture all right create a true about culture all right create a true about culture all right create a healthy deep culture and over time toxic healthy deep culture and over time toxic healthy deep culture and over time toxic people leave why because a healthy people leave why because a healthy people leave why because a healthy culture spits out toxic people just like culture spits out toxic people just like culture spits out toxic people just like a healthy body Wards off disease healthy a healthy body Wards off disease healthy a healthy body Wards off disease healthy cultures ward off toxic people they they cultures ward off toxic people they they cultures ward off toxic people they they can't get a tow hold and this is the can't get a tow hold and this is the can't get a tow hold and this is the Beautiful Surprise nobody gets kicked Beautiful Surprise nobody gets kicked Beautiful Surprise nobody gets kicked out when your culture gets Ultra healthy out when your culture gets Ultra healthy out when your culture gets Ultra healthy over time toxic people leave because

over time toxic people leave because over time toxic people leave because they realize I can't get traction here I they realize I can't get traction here I they realize I can't get traction here I I have no validation I'm going to go I have no validation I'm going to go I have no validation I'm going to go somewhere else so your long-term somewhere else so your long-term somewhere else so your long-term investment and vigilance finally pay off investment and vigilance finally pay off investment and vigilance finally pay off in ways you never expected so if you in ways you never expected so if you in ways you never expected so if you want a healthy organization here's what want a healthy organization here's what want a healthy organization here's what you do you limit foolish people you do you limit foolish people you do you limit foolish people eliminate evil people and stack your eliminate evil people and stack your eliminate evil people and stack your organization with wise people in organization with wise people in organization with wise people in leadership hey I hope this episode has leadership hey I hope this episode has leadership hey I hope this episode has been helpful I'd love your feedback on been helpful I'd love your feedback on been helpful I'd love your feedback on social or shoot us a note at carry atary social or shoot us a note at carry atary social or shoot us a note at carry atary hof.com so you now have some real hof.com so you now have some real hof.com so you now have some real practical steps you can use to to really practical steps you can use to to really practical steps you can use to to really make your organization healthy the make your organization healthy the make your organization healthy the question becomes well is there anything question becomes well is there anything question becomes well is there anything else I can do well I want to invite you else I can do well I want to invite you else I can do well I want to invite you to consider the art of team leadership to consider the art of team leadership to consider the art of team leadership it's my course where you get my it's my course where you get my it's my course where you get my comprehensive training in this area comprehensive training in this area comprehensive training in this area we're just dipping a toe into it in this we're just dipping a toe into it in this we're just dipping a toe into it in this podcast by the end of doing the art of podcast by the end of doing the art of podcast by the end of doing the art of team leadership you'll know exactly how team leadership you'll know exactly how team leadership you'll know exactly how to create a pipeline of people who to create a pipeline of people who to create a pipeline of people who execute on goals have strategies for execute on goals have strategies for execute on goals have strategies for motivating your team and who learn how motivating your team and who learn how motivating your team and who learn how to develop leaders that give your to develop leaders that give your to develop leaders that give your mission the focus and care it deserves mission the focus and care it deserves mission the focus and care it deserves way too many pastors burn out not way too many pastors burn out not way too many pastors burn out not because they're not called to Ministry because they're not called to Ministry because they're not called to Ministry or they work too hard but because they or they work too hard but because they or they work too hard but because they don't have the right team that can don't have the right team that can don't have the right team that can execute but you can change that you execute but you can change that you execute but you can change that you deserve a strategy and a system that deserve a strategy and a system that deserve a strategy and a system that will attract keep and develop the best will attract keep and develop the best will attract keep and develop the best leaders you can find and that's exactly leaders you can find and that's exactly leaders you can find and that's exactly what you'll find in the art of team what you'll find in the art of team what you'll find in the art of team leadership if you want to learn more and leadership if you want to learn more and leadership if you want to learn more and register today go to the artof team register today go to the artof team register today go to the artof team leadership.com again that's the artof

leadership.com again that's the artof leadership.com again that's the artof team leadership.com don't forget about team leadership.com don't forget about team leadership.com don't forget about using my code carry at church. Tech if using my code carry at church. Tech if using my code carry at church. Tech if you're ready to spend more time making you're ready to spend more time making you're ready to spend more time making disciples and less time stuck behind the disciples and less time stuck behind the disciples and less time stuck behind the screen go to church. Tech and use the screen go to church. Tech and use the screen go to church. Tech and use the code carry at checkout for an exclusive code carry at checkout for an exclusive code carry at checkout for an exclusive 25% discount off your first 3 months so 25% discount off your first 3 months so 25% discount off your first 3 months so next episode we are back to our next episode we are back to our next episode we are back to our regularly scheduled programming I've got regularly scheduled programming I've got regularly scheduled programming I've got interviews with Priscilla shrier Rich interviews with Priscilla shrier Rich interviews with Priscilla shrier Rich votus Mark sers Charles doig Andy votus Mark sers Charles doig Andy votus Mark sers Charles doig Andy Stanley NT wri Lisa Turk and Tim Ross Stanley NT wri Lisa Turk and Tim Ross Stanley NT wri Lisa Turk and Tim Ross coming up man I'm so excited for that coming up man I'm so excited for that coming up man I'm so excited for that and thank you so much for listening I and thank you so much for listening I and thank you so much for listening I hope today's episode has helped you hope today's episode has helped you hope today's episode has helped you identify and break a growth barrier identify and break a growth barrier identify and break a growth barrier you're facing and give us feedback on you're facing and give us feedback on you're facing and give us feedback on the format let us know what you think the format let us know what you think the format let us know what you think karyne hof.com or hit me up on the karyne hof.com or hit me up on the karyne hof.com or hit me up on the socials we'll catch you next time