How to Use Your Voice and Body for More Effective Preaching

Well, welcome to the podcast and before Well, welcome to the podcast and before we dive into today's episode, I am here we dive into today's episode, I am here we dive into today's episode, I am here with David Kinnaman and we are doing our with David Kinnaman and we are doing our with David Kinnaman and we are doing our monthly state of the church update. And monthly state of the church update. And monthly state of the church update. And David, I want to talk for a couple of David, I want to talk for a couple of David, I want to talk for a couple of minutes about some of the surprising minutes about some of the surprising minutes about some of the surprising data, like actually more encouraging data, like actually more encouraging data, like actually more encouraging data about trends you've you've data about trends you've you've data about trends you've you've uncovered related to church attendance uncovered related to church attendance uncovered related to church attendance among young adults. What are you seeing? among young adults. What are you seeing? among young adults. What are you seeing? Well, we found some really interesting Well, we found some really interesting Well, we found some really interesting data that I think will encourage church data that I think will encourage church data that I think will encourage church leaders and that is that millennials in leaders and that is that millennials in leaders and that is that millennials in Gen Z are now the most frequent Gen Z are now the most frequent Gen Z are now the most frequent churchgoers. That is reversing decades churchgoers. That is reversing decades churchgoers. That is reversing decades of trends where older adults are usually of trends where older adults are usually of trends where older adults are usually the most uh likely and regular church the most uh likely and regular church the most uh likely and regular church attenders. So, I actually think we've attenders. So, I actually think we've attenders. So, I actually think we've come up with a way of measuring church come up with a way of measuring church come up with a way of measuring church attendance that is more relevant to attendance that is more relevant to attendance that is more relevant to pastors. Typically, uh social pastors. Typically, uh social pastors. Typically, uh social researchers talk about have you attended researchers talk about have you attended researchers talk about have you attended church in the last seven days? Yes or church in the last seven days? Yes or church in the last seven days? Yes or no? um uh that is uh that is subject to no? um uh that is uh that is subject to no? um uh that is uh that is subject to people's um let's say halo effect or people's um let's say halo effect or people's um let's say halo effect or lying about their attendance. But you lying about their attendance. But you lying about their attendance. But you know we know that it's about a third know we know that it's about a third know we know that it's about a third >> exaggerating. Uh >> exaggerating. Uh >> exaggerating. Uh >> they about a third of all Americans say >> they about a third of all Americans say >> they about a third of all Americans say they've attended in the last seven days.

they've attended in the last seven days. they've attended in the last seven days. That's up somewhat from um the last That's up somewhat from um the last That's up somewhat from um the last couple years and uh it's it's up couple years and uh it's it's up couple years and uh it's it's up significantly from COVID. But what we significantly from COVID. But what we significantly from COVID. But what we came up with was a way of measuring came up with was a way of measuring came up with was a way of measuring among active churchgoers the number of among active churchgoers the number of among active churchgoers the number of times per month that they attend. So, we times per month that they attend. So, we times per month that they attend. So, we know that the average is 1.6 times per know that the average is 1.6 times per know that the average is 1.6 times per month that a churchgoer attends. I think month that a churchgoer attends. I think month that a churchgoer attends. I think that's very relevant to church leaders that's very relevant to church leaders that's very relevant to church leaders because, you know, you're looking at because, you know, you're looking at because, you know, you're looking at like how many times will people come? like how many times will people come? like how many times will people come? That's a little bit less than um 40% of That's a little bit less than um 40% of That's a little bit less than um 40% of the time. If you figure there's about the time. If you figure there's about the time. If you figure there's about 4.25 Sundays in a in a typical month 4.25 Sundays in a in a typical month 4.25 Sundays in a in a typical month because some months are five five weeks because some months are five five weeks because some months are five five weeks and some are four. Um but so people are and some are four. Um but so people are and some are four. Um but so people are coming about 40% two out of five coming about 40% two out of five coming about 40% two out of five weekends and um so 1.6 times. Here's weekends and um so 1.6 times. Here's weekends and um so 1.6 times. Here's what's so fascinating is that in the what's so fascinating is that in the what's so fascinating is that in the 2025 data, Gen Z attends 1.9 times a 2025 data, Gen Z attends 1.9 times a 2025 data, Gen Z attends 1.9 times a month. Millennials uh attend 1.8 times a month. Millennials uh attend 1.8 times a month. Millennials uh attend 1.8 times a month, Gen X is 1.6 times a month, and month, Gen X is 1.6 times a month, and month, Gen X is 1.6 times a month, and boomers and elders are 1.4 times a boomers and elders are 1.4 times a boomers and elders are 1.4 times a month. So that is just a a real reversal month. So that is just a a real reversal month. So that is just a a real reversal of some of our long-term tracking where of some of our long-term tracking where of some of our long-term tracking where you see uh older generations elders and you see uh older generations elders and you see uh older generations elders and boomers uh about 15 20 years ago were boomers uh about 15 20 years ago were boomers uh about 15 20 years ago were coming two and a half times a month it coming two and a half times a month it coming two and a half times a month it was much lower among Gen X uh at the was much lower among Gen X uh at the was much lower among Gen X uh at the start of the pandemic. uh millennials start of the pandemic. uh millennials start of the pandemic. uh millennials and Gen Z um you know they they have and Gen Z um you know they they have and Gen Z um you know they they have been they they were just one one time a been they they were just one one time a been they they were just one one time a month but what's so fascinating is that month but what's so fascinating is that month but what's so fascinating is that it's really been spiking the church

it's really been spiking the church it's really been spiking the church attendance levels the frequency of attendance levels the frequency of attendance levels the frequency of church attendance among active church attendance among active church attendance among active churchgoers is highest among Gen Z and churchgoers is highest among Gen Z and churchgoers is highest among Gen Z and millennials that is really uh newsworthy millennials that is really uh newsworthy millennials that is really uh newsworthy stuff stuff stuff >> yeah and if I read the data right um I >> yeah and if I read the data right um I >> yeah and if I read the data right um I got a couple of quick questions for you got a couple of quick questions for you got a couple of quick questions for you one is this is true like when when you one is this is true like when when you one is this is true like when when you go back data you know it was generally go back data you know it was generally go back data you know it was generally young people didn't attend as much. So young people didn't attend as much. So young people didn't attend as much. So when the millennials were younger, they when the millennials were younger, they when the millennials were younger, they weren't attending as much. When Gen X weren't attending as much. When Gen X weren't attending as much. When Gen X was younger, the people who were older was younger, the people who were older was younger, the people who were older than them were still out punting them in than them were still out punting them in than them were still out punting them in attendance. So this is kind of a attendance. So this is kind of a attendance. So this is kind of a historic thing where now it's actually historic thing where now it's actually historic thing where now it's actually the kids, the young adults who are the kids, the young adults who are the kids, the young adults who are attending more frequently than their attending more frequently than their attending more frequently than their parents and grandparents. parents and grandparents. parents and grandparents. >> It is. And I think what's interesting is >> It is. And I think what's interesting is >> It is. And I think what's interesting is that it's part of this larger narrative. that it's part of this larger narrative. that it's part of this larger narrative. We were on this podcast talking about We were on this podcast talking about We were on this podcast talking about this a few months ago and you might have this a few months ago and you might have this a few months ago and you might have come across this in other places. Barna come across this in other places. Barna come across this in other places. Barna data, Pew data, other data are saying data, Pew data, other data are saying data, Pew data, other data are saying there's something happening spiritually there's something happening spiritually there's something happening spiritually in our society. The question is sort of in our society. The question is sort of in our society. The question is sort of what and where will it lead? But there what and where will it lead? But there what and where will it lead? But there are more people, young generations who are more people, young generations who are more people, young generations who are interested in Jesus, who are saying are interested in Jesus, who are saying are interested in Jesus, who are saying they're committed to Jesus. Uh there they're committed to Jesus. Uh there they're committed to Jesus. Uh there seems to be this spiritual openness. Uh seems to be this spiritual openness. Uh seems to be this spiritual openness. Uh we see data in the UK about a return to we see data in the UK about a return to we see data in the UK about a return to church. So there's something happening church. So there's something happening church. So there's something happening among younger generations. They're among younger generations. They're among younger generations. They're hungry for spiritual answers. And then hungry for spiritual answers. And then hungry for spiritual answers. And then the real question is what will we make the real question is what will we make the real question is what will we make of this as church leaders? How will we of this as church leaders? How will we of this as church leaders? How will we take this return to church, this take this return to church, this take this return to church, this frequency of church attendance, this frequency of church attendance, this frequency of church attendance, this interest in Jesus? How will we point interest in Jesus? How will we point interest in Jesus? How will we point people towards, you know, more than just people towards, you know, more than just people towards, you know, more than just a flash in the pan, but towards a life a a flash in the pan, but towards a life a a flash in the pan, but towards a life a lifetime of following Jesus and growing lifetime of following Jesus and growing lifetime of following Jesus and growing in the knowledge uh and love of him?

in the knowledge uh and love of him? in the knowledge uh and love of him? >> And so, I guess the surprise is if >> And so, I guess the surprise is if >> And so, I guess the surprise is if you're looking for the people who are you're looking for the people who are you're looking for the people who are most engaged, look to the younger set, most engaged, look to the younger set, most engaged, look to the younger set, not the older set at this point. not the older set at this point. not the older set at this point. >> Exactly. I think that is the big >> Exactly. I think that is the big >> Exactly. I think that is the big reversal. And it seems as though boomers reversal. And it seems as though boomers reversal. And it seems as though boomers uh you know they're not only sort of uh you know they're not only sort of uh you know they're not only sort of retiring from their uh from their retiring from their uh from their retiring from their uh from their careers, they're also sort of retiring careers, they're also sort of retiring careers, they're also sort of retiring from regular church attendance. Um and from regular church attendance. Um and from regular church attendance. Um and and there'll be a real question, I and there'll be a real question, I and there'll be a real question, I think, about sort of how do you connect think, about sort of how do you connect think, about sort of how do you connect people across generations because people across generations because people across generations because churches don't do best when they're just churches don't do best when they're just churches don't do best when they're just uh lopsided with older or younger uh lopsided with older or younger uh lopsided with older or younger people. They do best when they're people. They do best when they're people. They do best when they're intergenerational relationships who are intergenerational relationships who are intergenerational relationships who are on mission with Jesus. So I think on mission with Jesus. So I think on mission with Jesus. So I think there's a lot of of uh really good there's a lot of of uh really good there's a lot of of uh really good positive momentum. This is it's an positive momentum. This is it's an positive momentum. This is it's an unusual year for me for us at Bara in unusual year for me for us at Bara in unusual year for me for us at Bara in that we've got this sort of like that we've got this sort of like that we've got this sort of like continuing stories of hope and of of continuing stories of hope and of of continuing stories of hope and of of actual we always have hope but actual we always have hope but actual we always have hope but continuing stories of real uh datadriven continuing stories of real uh datadriven continuing stories of real uh datadriven change that seems to turn. change that seems to turn. change that seems to turn. >> Yeah. There there seems to be some >> Yeah. There there seems to be some >> Yeah. There there seems to be some things that are making a difference and things that are making a difference and things that are making a difference and and we should just these are the days and we should just these are the days and we should just these are the days we're praying for Carrie. This is the we're praying for Carrie. This is the we're praying for Carrie. This is the moment we're asking.

moment we're asking. moment we're asking. >> We've been praying for this kind of >> We've been praying for this kind of >> We've been praying for this kind of spiritual openness that young people spiritual openness that young people spiritual openness that young people would have hearts and minds open to would have hearts and minds open to would have hearts and minds open to Jesus that they'd be uh coming into our Jesus that they'd be uh coming into our Jesus that they'd be uh coming into our churches. Let's not waste this moment. churches. Let's not waste this moment. churches. Let's not waste this moment. Let's not give them some of the things Let's not give them some of the things Let's not give them some of the things that they don't really need. Like let's that they don't really need. Like let's that they don't really need. Like let's give them Jesus. Let's give them a heart give them Jesus. Let's give them a heart give them Jesus. Let's give them a heart to be uh to be discipled in the in in in to be uh to be discipled in the in in in to be uh to be discipled in the in in in their in you know Monday through their in you know Monday through their in you know Monday through Saturday, not just on Sundays. Uh but Saturday, not just on Sundays. Uh but Saturday, not just on Sundays. Uh but the fact that they're coming more the fact that they're coming more the fact that they're coming more frequently on Sundays, I think is a real frequently on Sundays, I think is a real frequently on Sundays, I think is a real is a real data story worth sharing. is a real data story worth sharing. is a real data story worth sharing. Well, it makes me wonder too if you're Well, it makes me wonder too if you're Well, it makes me wonder too if you're seeing consumer Christianity literally seeing consumer Christianity literally seeing consumer Christianity literally fade into the sunset and this new church fade into the sunset and this new church fade into the sunset and this new church emerge where you see much more emerge where you see much more emerge where you see much more engagement, much more sincere devotion engagement, much more sincere devotion engagement, much more sincere devotion to Christ. So, well, we're going to be to Christ. So, well, we're going to be to Christ. So, well, we're going to be back next month with more findings and back next month with more findings and back next month with more findings and it's great that it's good news. If you it's great that it's good news. If you it's great that it's good news. If you want more, you can head to want more, you can head to want more, you can head to stateoftheurch.com/carry stateoftheurch.com/carry stateoftheurch.com/carry for more. Um, any other place you would for more. Um, any other place you would for more. Um, any other place you would direct them to, David? direct them to, David? direct them to, David? >> Uh, well, we'll be uh organizing a lot >> Uh, well, we'll be uh organizing a lot >> Uh, well, we'll be uh organizing a lot of this data on our website at bara.com. of this data on our website at bara.com. of this data on our website at bara.com. Um we're be we'll be working on a faith Um we're be we'll be working on a faith Um we're be we'll be working on a faith and culture report coming out on and culture report coming out on and culture report coming out on Mondays. Um and so please uh consider Mondays. Um and so please uh consider Mondays. Um and so please uh consider signing up for that. It's free and happy signing up for that. It's free and happy signing up for that. It's free and happy to give uh you know sort of a fresh look to give uh you know sort of a fresh look to give uh you know sort of a fresh look at what's happening in our culture and at what's happening in our culture and at what's happening in our culture and how we as faith leaders can make a how we as faith leaders can make a how we as faith leaders can make a difference.

difference. difference. >> I could get emotional on this one. >> I could get emotional on this one. >> I could get emotional on this one. I genuinely believe that my dad I genuinely believe that my dad I genuinely believe that my dad is always proud of me. is always proud of me. is always proud of me. It's so funny. We could talk about the It's so funny. We could talk about the It's so funny. We could talk about the like, oh, how do you use your voice? And like, oh, how do you use your voice? And like, oh, how do you use your voice? And that's really it really is helpful. And that's really it really is helpful. And that's really it really is helpful. And I feel like a lot of this my dad and I I feel like a lot of this my dad and I I feel like a lot of this my dad and I would communicate about, would communicate about, would communicate about, but I'd say the reason that I'm even but I'd say the reason that I'm even but I'd say the reason that I'm even listening to my dad in the first place listening to my dad in the first place listening to my dad in the first place about any of it is because I know that about any of it is because I know that about any of it is because I know that he's proud of me, that he delights in he's proud of me, that he delights in he's proud of me, that he delights in me, that he loves me. me, that he loves me. me, that he loves me. >> Welcome to the Carrie New Hoff >> Welcome to the Carrie New Hoff >> Welcome to the Carrie New Hoff leadership podcast. So today on the leadership podcast. So today on the leadership podcast. So today on the podcast, one of the best preachers I podcast, one of the best preachers I podcast, one of the best preachers I know, not best female preachers, just know, not best female preachers, just know, not best female preachers, just hands down best preachers I know, Megan hands down best preachers I know, Megan hands down best preachers I know, Megan Fate Marshman joins me and we talk about Fate Marshman joins me and we talk about Fate Marshman joins me and we talk about why the key to better preaching is not why the key to better preaching is not why the key to better preaching is not what you think. Yeah, we're going to what you think. Yeah, we're going to what you think. Yeah, we're going to talk about your use of voice and body talk about your use of voice and body talk about your use of voice and body for more effective communication, how to for more effective communication, how to for more effective communication, how to approach content, but what she shares is approach content, but what she shares is approach content, but what she shares is going to surprise you. And so wherever going to surprise you. And so wherever going to surprise you. And so wherever you're watching, be sure to subscribe, you're watching, be sure to subscribe, you're watching, be sure to subscribe, follow, and leave a comment to join the follow, and leave a comment to join the follow, and leave a comment to join the conversation. But first, a word from conversation. But first, a word from conversation. But first, a word from today's partners and then we will dive today's partners and then we will dive today's partners and then we will dive into the conversation. This episode is into the conversation. This episode is into the conversation. This episode is brought to you by The Art of Preaching.

brought to you by The Art of Preaching. brought to you by The Art of Preaching. Hey, I've got some brand new news. We Hey, I've got some brand new news. We Hey, I've got some brand new news. We have a new version of my course, The Art have a new version of my course, The Art have a new version of my course, The Art of Preaching, out now. It's totally of Preaching, out now. It's totally of Preaching, out now. It's totally revamped from the bottom up. And if revamped from the bottom up. And if revamped from the bottom up. And if you've ever wanted to take your you've ever wanted to take your you've ever wanted to take your preaching to the next level, whether preaching to the next level, whether preaching to the next level, whether that's learning how to craft messages that's learning how to craft messages that's learning how to craft messages that engage and connect, deliver them that engage and connect, deliver them that engage and connect, deliver them with confidence, because a lot of us are with confidence, because a lot of us are with confidence, because a lot of us are very confident, right? Or take the very confident, right? Or take the very confident, right? Or take the stress out of sermon prep. This course stress out of sermon prep. This course stress out of sermon prep. This course was designed for you. I'll show you how was designed for you. I'll show you how was designed for you. I'll show you how to get a month ahead in your preaching to get a month ahead in your preaching to get a month ahead in your preaching and a whole lot more. Now, some of you and a whole lot more. Now, some of you and a whole lot more. Now, some of you may have taken the original course that may have taken the original course that may have taken the original course that was trusted by literally thousands of was trusted by literally thousands of was trusted by literally thousands of pastors and communicators. Well, is this pastors and communicators. Well, is this pastors and communicators. Well, is this different? Yes. We took that foundation, different? Yes. We took that foundation, different? Yes. We took that foundation, expanded it, updated it, totally expanded it, updated it, totally expanded it, updated it, totally revamped it so it's ready to go and made revamped it so it's ready to go and made revamped it so it's ready to go and made it deeper and more practical than ever. it deeper and more practical than ever. it deeper and more practical than ever. In the course, you're going to learn how In the course, you're going to learn how In the course, you're going to learn how to tell unforgettable stories that drive to tell unforgettable stories that drive to tell unforgettable stories that drive your message home. Use humor the right your message home. Use humor the right your message home. Use humor the right way without being awkward or forced. way without being awkward or forced. way without being awkward or forced. Right? Try to find your unique preaching Right? Try to find your unique preaching Right? Try to find your unique preaching voice so that you sound like you, not voice so that you sound like you, not voice so that you sound like you, not someone else. I'll show you how to ditch someone else. I'll show you how to ditch someone else. I'll show you how to ditch your notes and preach with clarity and your notes and preach with clarity and your notes and preach with clarity and confidence. We'll even show you how to confidence. We'll even show you how to confidence. We'll even show you how to grow your own personal connection with grow your own personal connection with grow your own personal connection with scripture, which is so important, and scripture, which is so important, and scripture, which is so important, and how to grab attention at the start of a how to grab attention at the start of a how to grab attention at the start of a message and keep it until the very last message and keep it until the very last message and keep it until the very last word. Yeah, those are the things that word. Yeah, those are the things that word. Yeah, those are the things that make for a great sermon. We want to see make for a great sermon. We want to see make for a great sermon. We want to see you develop those skills deeply. And you develop those skills deeply. And you develop those skills deeply. And here's the best part. From September here's the best part. From September here's the best part. From September 22nd to October 3rd, you can get special 22nd to October 3rd, you can get special 22nd to October 3rd, you can get special launch pricing. When you use the code launch pricing. When you use the code launch pricing. When you use the code preach at checkout, you'll save $47 off preach at checkout, you'll save $47 off preach at checkout, you'll save $47 off the full price. Check it out by clicking

the full price. Check it out by clicking the full price. Check it out by clicking the link in the description or visiting the link in the description or visiting the link in the description or visiting the artfreachingcourse.com. the artfreachingcourse.com. the artfreachingcourse.com. So, don't let another Sunday morning So, don't let another Sunday morning So, don't let another Sunday morning fall flat. If you're ready to preach fall flat. If you're ready to preach fall flat. If you're ready to preach clear, engaging, and memorable sermons clear, engaging, and memorable sermons clear, engaging, and memorable sermons every time you step on the stage or every time you step on the stage or every time you step on the stage or behind the pulpit, then click the link behind the pulpit, then click the link behind the pulpit, then click the link in the description and you can learn in the description and you can learn in the description and you can learn more. Megan, I'm so glad we're finally more. Megan, I'm so glad we're finally more. Megan, I'm so glad we're finally having this conversation. I want to having this conversation. I want to having this conversation. I want to rewind the clock a little bit. How did rewind the clock a little bit. How did rewind the clock a little bit. How did you first get into preaching and realize you first get into preaching and realize you first get into preaching and realize that perhaps there was a call of God on that perhaps there was a call of God on that perhaps there was a call of God on your life? your life? your life? >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> my backstory is pretty funny. When I >> my backstory is pretty funny. When I >> my backstory is pretty funny. When I when someone will walk up and go like, I when someone will walk up and go like, I when someone will walk up and go like, I want to become a preacher, like what do want to become a preacher, like what do want to become a preacher, like what do I do? I feel like I can go down three I do? I feel like I can go down three I do? I feel like I can go down three very different lanes. very different lanes. very different lanes. >> Okay, >> Okay, >> Okay, >> first one would be love the local >> first one would be love the local >> first one would be love the local church. I used to volunteer when I was church. I used to volunteer when I was church. I used to volunteer when I was in middle school, so go serve the kids in middle school, so go serve the kids in middle school, so go serve the kids ministry and then you know high-five the ministry and then you know high-five the ministry and then you know high-five the uh children's director. That's one lane. uh children's director. That's one lane. uh children's director. That's one lane. The second lane is just typically The second lane is just typically The second lane is just typically talking about I don't know like you know talking about I don't know like you know talking about I don't know like you know practicing your skill like making sure practicing your skill like making sure practicing your skill like making sure that you're really serving the church that you're really serving the church that you're really serving the church but then like going to coffee and being but then like going to coffee and being but then like going to coffee and being a better listener. and I'll highlight a better listener. and I'll highlight a better listener. and I'll highlight the whole listening piece cuz I think the whole listening piece cuz I think the whole listening piece cuz I think how I got into preaching was learning how I got into preaching was learning how I got into preaching was learning how to listen so that I knew who I was how to listen so that I knew who I was how to listen so that I knew who I was preaching to. So, I'd go the listening preaching to. So, I'd go the listening preaching to. So, I'd go the listening route. The third one is probably the route. The third one is probably the route. The third one is probably the most vulnerable most vulnerable most vulnerable >> and since we're on your podcast, >> and since we're on your podcast, >> and since we're on your podcast, >> uh I'm not going to go that. Let's go >> uh I'm not going to go that. Let's go >> uh I'm not going to go that. Let's go back to the listening. I'm just kidding.

back to the listening. I'm just kidding. back to the listening. I'm just kidding. >> I got you. Nice one. Nice one. Nice one. >> I got you. Nice one. Nice one. Nice one. >> I got you. Nice one. Nice one. Nice one. >> Uh, I will go this one because this is >> Uh, I will go this one because this is >> Uh, I will go this one because this is the true backstory to how I became a a the true backstory to how I became a a the true backstory to how I became a a teacher was um I teacher was um I teacher was um I went to jail once and when I did it was went to jail once and when I did it was went to jail once and when I did it was a silly thing in college. I had some a silly thing in college. I had some a silly thing in college. I had some friends who got into stealing cuz one of friends who got into stealing cuz one of friends who got into stealing cuz one of them worked at a department store and them worked at a department store and them worked at a department store and they she brought home one of those they she brought home one of those they she brought home one of those things that takes off the tag. They kept things that takes off the tag. They kept things that takes off the tag. They kept going. One day I went. going. One day I went. going. One day I went. >> Oh wow. And of course that one day I got >> Oh wow. And of course that one day I got >> Oh wow. And of course that one day I got caught. Thanks be to God. And I got I caught. Thanks be to God. And I got I caught. Thanks be to God. And I got I went to jail and my parents were on a went to jail and my parents were on a went to jail and my parents were on a bike ride so we couldn't get a hold of bike ride so we couldn't get a hold of bike ride so we couldn't get a hold of them. And then they didn't go on a bike them. And then they didn't go on a bike them. And then they didn't go on a bike ride for 10 years after that. True ride for 10 years after that. True ride for 10 years after that. True story. And when they bailed me out, I story. And when they bailed me out, I story. And when they bailed me out, I walked out and mind you to this point in walked out and mind you to this point in walked out and mind you to this point in life, I feel like I had kind of been the life, I feel like I had kind of been the life, I feel like I had kind of been the the good Christian kid. I was at a the good Christian kid. I was at a the good Christian kid. I was at a Christian college at the time. I mean, I Christian college at the time. I mean, I Christian college at the time. I mean, I even remember when I got actually even remember when I got actually even remember when I got actually arrested in the department store. arrested in the department store. arrested in the department store. Someone saw my card and they're like, Someone saw my card and they're like, Someone saw my card and they're like, "You go to Westmont College." That's a "You go to Westmont College." That's a "You go to Westmont College." That's a Christian college, right?

Christian college, right? Christian college, right? >> So, you're like 18, 19. >> So, you're like 18, 19. >> So, you're like 18, 19. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> And he's like, "Oh, Christian, huh?" You >> And he's like, "Oh, Christian, huh?" You >> And he's like, "Oh, Christian, huh?" You know, all the judgment. And I'm like, know, all the judgment. And I'm like, know, all the judgment. And I'm like, and I wanted to I wanted to blurt out and I wanted to I wanted to blurt out and I wanted to I wanted to blurt out like, "This isn't me." Like, like, like, "This isn't me." Like, like, like, "This isn't me." Like, like, imagine just some of you are going, imagine just some of you are going, imagine just some of you are going, "That's all you did." And some of you "That's all you did." And some of you "That's all you did." And some of you are going like, "You got arrested? I are going like, "You got arrested? I are going like, "You got arrested? I don't know how people are thinking, but don't know how people are thinking, but don't know how people are thinking, but um I had my parents ended up having all um I had my parents ended up having all um I had my parents ended up having all these family friends write letters on my these family friends write letters on my these family friends write letters on my behalf to the court saying, "Super out behalf to the court saying, "Super out behalf to the court saying, "Super out of character. This is not who she is. of character. This is not who she is. of character. This is not who she is. you have the chance, you know, to give you have the chance, you know, to give you have the chance, you know, to give her a second chance or her life will her a second chance or her life will her a second chance or her life will either go this way or she'll learn, you either go this way or she'll learn, you either go this way or she'll learn, you know, whatever. And so when I stood know, whatever. And so when I stood know, whatever. And so when I stood before to get my sentencing, before to get my sentencing, before to get my sentencing, um I remember the judge goes, "All um I remember the judge goes, "All um I remember the judge goes, "All right, I got a lot of letters." I'm right, I got a lot of letters." I'm right, I got a lot of letters." I'm like, "Did you?" And he's like, "And I'm like, "Did you?" And he's like, "And I'm like, "Did you?" And he's like, "And I'm going to do something I've never done. going to do something I've never done. going to do something I've never done. Your consequence is going to be speaking Your consequence is going to be speaking Your consequence is going to be speaking publicly to every local high school on publicly to every local high school on publicly to every local high school on the on the power decision-making and the on the power decision-making and the on the power decision-making and friendships." friendships." friendships." >> Whoa. >> Whoa. >> Whoa. >> Go ahead. And I did. And I remembered >> Go ahead. And I did. And I remembered >> Go ahead. And I did. And I remembered doing it. And I remember going, "Whoa." doing it. And I remember going, "Whoa." doing it. And I remember going, "Whoa." And it was like they would bring an And it was like they would bring an And it was like they would bring an assembly. Imagine like thousands of assembly. Imagine like thousands of assembly. Imagine like thousands of students for an assembly. And don't students for an assembly. And don't students for an assembly. And don't shop. Exactly. And I got there and I shop. Exactly. And I got there and I shop. Exactly. And I got there and I would tell the story. Um, but there was would tell the story. Um, but there was would tell the story. Um, but there was one part of the story I didn't tell that one part of the story I didn't tell that one part of the story I didn't tell that I told once I started preaching from a I told once I started preaching from a I told once I started preaching from a stage God's word because it was actually stage God's word because it was actually stage God's word because it was actually the moment that changed my life. It the moment that changed my life. It the moment that changed my life. It wasn't the grace that allowed me to wasn't the grace that allowed me to wasn't the grace that allowed me to learn and discover in my weakness, my learn and discover in my weakness, my learn and discover in my weakness, my surprising gift. It was actually when I surprising gift. It was actually when I surprising gift. It was actually when I walked out of the jail cell. And I walked out of the jail cell. And I walked out of the jail cell. And I walked out again, been a Christian for walked out again, been a Christian for walked out again, been a Christian for mo majority of my life at that point.

mo majority of my life at that point. mo majority of my life at that point. Look up at my parents and my mom is Look up at my parents and my mom is Look up at my parents and my mom is standing there like this. standing there like this. standing there like this. And I'm like, And I'm like, And I'm like, I don't deserve that. I don't deserve that. I don't deserve that. And I'm so ashamed. And she hugged me. I And I'm so ashamed. And she hugged me. I And I'm so ashamed. And she hugged me. I said, "Mom, I don't deserve this." And said, "Mom, I don't deserve this." And said, "Mom, I don't deserve this." And my dad whispers, "My girl, you never my dad whispers, "My girl, you never my dad whispers, "My girl, you never did. when did you when did you think we did. when did you when did you think we did. when did you when did you think we deserve grace? And I went my whole life. deserve grace? And I went my whole life. deserve grace? And I went my whole life. And so it was the first time I And so it was the first time I And so it was the first time I understood the power of grace. The first understood the power of grace. The first understood the power of grace. The first time I ever gave a message all combined time I ever gave a message all combined time I ever gave a message all combined in one little oopsie that changed my in one little oopsie that changed my in one little oopsie that changed my life forever. And then I remember life forever. And then I remember life forever. And then I remember telling the story at Hemlick Christian telling the story at Hemlick Christian telling the story at Hemlick Christian Camps where I've worked for the about I Camps where I've worked for the about I Camps where I've worked for the about I mean gosh the past like 17 years mean gosh the past like 17 years mean gosh the past like 17 years something like that. First message I something like that. First message I something like that. First message I ever gave. How cool is this? ever gave. How cool is this? ever gave. How cool is this? remember I remember that I even remember remember I remember that I even remember remember I remember that I even remember my three-part outline that I had and I'm my three-part outline that I had and I'm my three-part outline that I had and I'm telling the story and the guy I had telling the story and the guy I had telling the story and the guy I had looked up to as a preacher was in the looked up to as a preacher was in the looked up to as a preacher was in the front row of the first message I ever front row of the first message I ever front row of the first message I ever gave specifically Christian and I'm gave specifically Christian and I'm gave specifically Christian and I'm teaching I remember teaching Daniel um teaching I remember teaching Daniel um teaching I remember teaching Daniel um getting up to pray and and I share the getting up to pray and and I share the getting up to pray and and I share the message and this guy I'd looked up to my message and this guy I'd looked up to my message and this guy I'd looked up to my whole life and he goes let's get coffee whole life and he goes let's get coffee whole life and he goes let's get coffee and I'm like for sure and I'm like so and I'm like for sure and I'm like so and I'm like for sure and I'm like so excited and we sit there he's like you excited and we sit there he's like you excited and we sit there he's like you got a got a got a I'm like and I and it took me back to I'm like and I and it took me back to I'm like and I and it took me back to which I had kind of forgotten about you which I had kind of forgotten about you which I had kind of forgotten about you know five or six years earlier when I know five or six years earlier when I know five or six years earlier when I stood up in front of these assemblies to stood up in front of these assemblies to stood up in front of these assemblies to tell about decisionm he goes you have a tell about decisionm he goes you have a tell about decisionm he goes you have a gift and it will either be all about you gift and it will either be all about you gift and it will either be all about you or you'll partner with the Holy Spirit

or you'll partner with the Holy Spirit or you'll partner with the Holy Spirit and be a part of eternity shifting and be a part of eternity shifting and be a part of eternity shifting >> oh my goodness >> oh my goodness >> oh my goodness >> and that was Francis Chan in the middle >> and that was Francis Chan in the middle >> and that was Francis Chan in the middle of writing the book Forgotten God. How of writing the book Forgotten God. How of writing the book Forgotten God. How cool. cool. cool. >> And he wasn't uber famous Francis Chan. >> And he wasn't uber famous Francis Chan. >> And he wasn't uber famous Francis Chan. He was the same Francis Chan who who he He was the same Francis Chan who who he He was the same Francis Chan who who he is today. The faithful, humble servant is today. The faithful, humble servant is today. The faithful, humble servant of God, partners with the Holy Spirit, of God, partners with the Holy Spirit, of God, partners with the Holy Spirit, wants to be a part of what God's up to wants to be a part of what God's up to wants to be a part of what God's up to instead of really obsessed with the instead of really obsessed with the instead of really obsessed with the culture of making it about you. And I culture of making it about you. And I culture of making it about you. And I remember him giving that message. Doubt remember him giving that message. Doubt remember him giving that message. Doubt that he remembers it, but it changed my that he remembers it, but it changed my that he remembers it, but it changed my life for the better. And I want I want life for the better. And I want I want life for the better. And I want I want to do this. to do this. to do this. >> So that's the backstory. >> So that's the backstory. >> So that's the backstory. >> All right. There's a number of things I >> All right. There's a number of things I >> All right. There's a number of things I want to talk about. One is it's funny want to talk about. One is it's funny want to talk about. One is it's funny when you recognize a gift. I call it it. when you recognize a gift. I call it it. when you recognize a gift. I call it it. And I've really been sensitive to that And I've really been sensitive to that And I've really been sensitive to that now that I'm not preaching as much as I now that I'm not preaching as much as I now that I'm not preaching as much as I used to. Uh, you know, when I was a lead used to. Uh, you know, when I was a lead used to. Uh, you know, when I was a lead pastor of a church, I'm often asked to pastor of a church, I'm often asked to pastor of a church, I'm often asked to evaluate communicators. And I feel like evaluate communicators. And I feel like evaluate communicators. And I feel like I can tell in the first 10 seconds I can tell in the first 10 seconds I can tell in the first 10 seconds whether there's an it factor. And I whether there's an it factor. And I whether there's an it factor. And I don't know what that is. It could be a don't know what that is. It could be a don't know what that is. It could be a diamond in the rough where somebody just diamond in the rough where somebody just diamond in the rough where somebody just isn't that polished, but they're so isn't that polished, but they're so isn't that polished, but they're so compelling. And it's like, wow. I think compelling. And it's like, wow. I think compelling. And it's like, wow. I think you have exactly what Francis affirmed you have exactly what Francis affirmed you have exactly what Francis affirmed in you. You have the it factor in my in you. You have the it factor in my in you. You have the it factor in my view.

view. view. just I've got to listen. I can't not just I've got to listen. I can't not just I've got to listen. I can't not listen. There are other people who are listen. There are other people who are listen. There are other people who are very polished and really wellprepared very polished and really wellprepared very polished and really wellprepared and it's like, "Yeah, all right. That and it's like, "Yeah, all right. That and it's like, "Yeah, all right. That was that was good." was that was good." was that was good." >> Um, do you notice something like that? >> Um, do you notice something like that? >> Um, do you notice something like that? What is it? I've never asked anybody What is it? I've never asked anybody What is it? I've never asked anybody that question, but and I could be that question, but and I could be that question, but and I could be totally off base here, but I don't know totally off base here, but I don't know totally off base here, but I don't know whether that's spotting a spiritual whether that's spotting a spiritual whether that's spotting a spiritual gift. And I've pulled some people aside gift. And I've pulled some people aside gift. And I've pulled some people aside >> where I've heard them speak, even if it >> where I've heard them speak, even if it >> where I've heard them speak, even if it was like really extemporaneous, where was like really extemporaneous, where was like really extemporaneous, where they and I'm like, "Just come over here, they and I'm like, "Just come over here, they and I'm like, "Just come over here, men and women." And I'm like, I think men and women." And I'm like, I think men and women." And I'm like, I think you have a gift. you have a gift. you have a gift. >> I think you got a gift. Any comments on >> I think you got a gift. Any comments on >> I think you got a gift. Any comments on that? The it factor or you feel free to that? The it factor or you feel free to that? The it factor or you feel free to reframe it. reframe it. reframe it. >> Yeah. No, no. I would say I like it. >> Yeah. No, no. I would say I like it. >> Yeah. No, no. I would say I like it. >> I'm very encouraged by it. Thank you. >> I'm very encouraged by it. Thank you. >> I'm very encouraged by it. Thank you. >> I think what Francis did to me, we could >> I think what Francis did to me, we could >> I think what Francis did to me, we could do to anyone. Not necessarily in do to anyone. Not necessarily in do to anyone. Not necessarily in speaking, but in their life. speaking, but in their life. speaking, but in their life. >> So, >> So, >> So, he noticed a gift. It's something It's he noticed a gift. It's something It's he noticed a gift. It's something It's something that I try to do, although I something that I try to do, although I something that I try to do, although I forget it a majority of the time. So forget it a majority of the time. So forget it a majority of the time. So recently someone encouraged me and I recently someone encouraged me and I recently someone encouraged me and I remember looking at her and going whoa remember looking at her and going whoa remember looking at her and going whoa that's a gift. And she said what? I said that's a gift. And she said what? I said that's a gift. And she said what? I said the way you encouraged I really touched the way you encouraged I really touched the way you encouraged I really touched my heart. Sometimes an encouragement can my heart. Sometimes an encouragement can my heart. Sometimes an encouragement can be like that was nice and it didn't put be like that was nice and it didn't put be like that was nice and it didn't put me in a box of what I have to be. Your me in a box of what I have to be. Your me in a box of what I have to be. Your encouragement encouragement encouragement >> opened up the box to what I could be.

>> opened up the box to what I could be. >> opened up the box to what I could be. That is a gift and I spoke that into That is a gift and I spoke that into That is a gift and I spoke that into her. So I would say when you're you're her. So I would say when you're you're her. So I would say when you're you're talking about the it I think you're talking about the it I think you're talking about the it I think you're using it in the category of speaking. using it in the category of speaking. using it in the category of speaking. >> Yeah. I would say it's a joy and a >> Yeah. I would say it's a joy and a >> Yeah. I would say it's a joy and a delight in the same way that he did that delight in the same way that he did that delight in the same way that he did that for me for me to do that for others and for me for me to do that for others and for me for me to do that for others and finding just little places where how God finding just little places where how God finding just little places where how God made us made us made us is thriving there and we're offering it is thriving there and we're offering it is thriving there and we're offering it up for his glory and not our own. That up for his glory and not our own. That up for his glory and not our own. That is a gift because suddenly it is is a gift because suddenly it is is a gift because suddenly it is something that was given to us that something that was given to us that something that was given to us that we're then giving back to him, right? we're then giving back to him, right? we're then giving back to him, right? And so it's about him. So, I'd say I And so it's about him. So, I'd say I And so it's about him. So, I'd say I hope that I'm in the right lane and I hope that I'm in the right lane and I hope that I'm in the right lane and I hope I'm finding ways to find people in hope I'm finding ways to find people in hope I'm finding ways to find people in all of their different lanes, too, all of their different lanes, too, all of their different lanes, too, because although they may not have the because although they may not have the because although they may not have the it in speaking um in front of a stage it in speaking um in front of a stage it in speaking um in front of a stage with audience, not feeling nervous or with audience, not feeling nervous or with audience, not feeling nervous or being able to, you know, pastor the being able to, you know, pastor the being able to, you know, pastor the conscience or whatever, they may have a conscience or whatever, they may have a conscience or whatever, they may have a gift, which biblically they do. So yeah, gift, which biblically they do. So yeah, gift, which biblically they do. So yeah, >> they have one and if we can only name it >> they have one and if we can only name it >> they have one and if we can only name it and specifically in those spaces that and specifically in those spaces that and specifically in those spaces that were using that and giving it back to were using that and giving it back to were using that and giving it back to the giver by giving it away to others, I the giver by giving it away to others, I the giver by giving it away to others, I hope we name it in more people because hope we name it in more people because hope we name it in more people because when he did it for me in speaking, I when he did it for me in speaking, I when he did it for me in speaking, I believed it.

believed it. believed it. >> Yeah. You you were telling me you've >> Yeah. You you were telling me you've >> Yeah. You you were telling me you've already mentioned your parents. Your dad already mentioned your parents. Your dad already mentioned your parents. Your dad gave you a lot of feedback on your gave you a lot of feedback on your gave you a lot of feedback on your speaking/preaching. speaking/preaching. speaking/preaching. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> In the early days, perhaps he still >> In the early days, perhaps he still >> In the early days, perhaps he still does, I don't know. What kind of does, I don't know. What kind of does, I don't know. What kind of feedback did your dad give you and how feedback did your dad give you and how feedback did your dad give you and how did it form you or shape you as a did it form you or shape you as a did it form you or shape you as a preacher? preacher? preacher? >> Yeah. So, not common or well-known fact, >> Yeah. So, not common or well-known fact, >> Yeah. So, not common or well-known fact, my dad was an actor. my dad was an actor. my dad was an actor. >> Oh, wow. >> Oh, wow. >> Oh, wow. >> And then he ended up running a theater >> And then he ended up running a theater >> And then he ended up running a theater academy for a number of years. So, I academy for a number of years. So, I academy for a number of years. So, I grew up watching my dad act. I was grew up watching my dad act. I was grew up watching my dad act. I was really quiet as a kid, but not like shy. really quiet as a kid, but not like shy. really quiet as a kid, but not like shy. I was almost like shy on purpose. I was almost like shy on purpose. I was almost like shy on purpose. >> I was just pretty observant, just paying >> I was just pretty observant, just paying >> I was just pretty observant, just paying attention. And I I watched my dad a lot. attention. And I I watched my dad a lot. attention. And I I watched my dad a lot. He could entertain the crowd. He could He could entertain the crowd. He could He could entertain the crowd. He could sit with someone oneon-one. And I sit with someone oneon-one. And I sit with someone oneon-one. And I watched the way that he leaned into watched the way that he leaned into watched the way that he leaned into people. actor, stage actor. people. actor, stage actor. people. actor, stage actor. >> He was actually Yeah. theater >> He was actually Yeah. theater >> He was actually Yeah. theater >> theater. >> theater. >> theater. >> And so I remember early on in preaching, >> And so I remember early on in preaching, >> And so I remember early on in preaching, I I used to work at a church called Rock I I used to work at a church called Rock I I used to work at a church called Rock Harbor in Costa Mesa, California. Harbor in Costa Mesa, California. Harbor in Costa Mesa, California. >> And my dad would come to the there was a >> And my dad would come to the there was a >> And my dad would come to the there was a 7 and a 9:00 p.m. service and they 7 and a 9:00 p.m. service and they 7 and a 9:00 p.m. service and they lasted 2 hours. And so by 11, I mean, lasted 2 hours. And so by 11, I mean, lasted 2 hours. And so by 11, I mean, people are the young adults are still at people are the young adults are still at people are the young adults are still at 11. 11. 11. >> My dad would come to the 9:00 p.m. It's >> My dad would come to the 9:00 p.m. It's >> My dad would come to the 9:00 p.m. It's now 11:00 and he walks up afterwards and now 11:00 and he walks up afterwards and now 11:00 and he walks up afterwards and his feedback typically the first his feedback typically the first his feedback typically the first feedback wasn't it was all his training.

feedback wasn't it was all his training. feedback wasn't it was all his training. It was his it his training was all in It was his it his training was all in It was his it his training was all in how to use your body, how to use your how to use your body, how to use your how to use your body, how to use your tone, how to use your voice in tone, how to use your voice in tone, how to use your voice in inflection, what's that word he would inflection, what's that word he would inflection, what's that word he would know. And so know. And so know. And so >> how do you use your whole self to >> how do you use your whole self to >> how do you use your whole self to communicate? communicate? communicate? >> And so his feedback would be like, you >> And so his feedback would be like, you >> And so his feedback would be like, you know what I really liked, Megan? I'm know what I really liked, Megan? I'm know what I really liked, Megan? I'm like, what? And I'm expecting him to like, what? And I'm expecting him to like, what? And I'm expecting him to talk about like, oh, when God said, uh, talk about like, oh, when God said, uh, talk about like, oh, when God said, uh, no, it was I like that when you made a no, it was I like that when you made a no, it was I like that when you made a point and you knew that they had to lean point and you knew that they had to lean point and you knew that they had to lean in to get it, that it's them sitting in to get it, that it's them sitting in to get it, that it's them sitting back in life wouldn't receive it, that back in life wouldn't receive it, that back in life wouldn't receive it, that you would actually use your hands and you would actually use your hands and you would actually use your hands and you would bring them in like you were you would bring them in like you were you would bring them in like you were telling them the best secret ever. He telling them the best secret ever. He telling them the best secret ever. He goes, I love when you did that. He goes, goes, I love when you did that. He goes, goes, I love when you did that. He goes, and there was a moment you made this big and there was a moment you made this big and there was a moment you made this big point and then he would actually, point and then he would actually, point and then he would actually, sometimes he'll critique it, too. go. sometimes he'll critique it, too. go. sometimes he'll critique it, too. go. You're making this big point and then You're making this big point and then You're making this big point and then you zoomed past it to the next one and you zoomed past it to the next one and you zoomed past it to the next one and no one got to sit and think about that no one got to sit and think about that no one got to sit and think about that point that was so important for them. point that was so important for them. point that was so important for them. Make sure if you make the point, Make sure if you make the point, Make sure if you make the point, >> if you tell them that God loves them >> if you tell them that God loves them >> if you tell them that God loves them that they can consider it and what you that they can consider it and what you that they can consider it and what you can do with your timing and your pacing can do with your timing and your pacing can do with your timing and your pacing and he goes and also if you're asking and he goes and also if you're asking and he goes and also if you're asking them a question and you genuinely want them a question and you genuinely want them a question and you genuinely want them to think about the answer, they them to think about the answer, they them to think about the answer, they need space to do that. And as you can need space to do that. And as you can need space to do that. And as you can tell right now, I'm doing my voice in tell right now, I'm doing my voice in tell right now, I'm doing my voice in all different types of ways. So, you can all different types of ways. So, you can all different types of ways. So, you can see that see that see that >> this is the type of feedback he gave me.

>> this is the type of feedback he gave me. >> this is the type of feedback he gave me. I didn't know at the time how valuable I didn't know at the time how valuable I didn't know at the time how valuable it would be. Um, and I wasn't as it would be. Um, and I wasn't as it would be. Um, and I wasn't as conscious moving forward, but it was his conscious moving forward, but it was his conscious moving forward, but it was his affirmations of things that I naturally affirmations of things that I naturally affirmations of things that I naturally did. And every once in a while, he did a did. And every once in a while, he did a did. And every once in a while, he did a certain critique that was just really certain critique that was just really certain critique that was just really helpful and asked the right types of helpful and asked the right types of helpful and asked the right types of questions to where I could discover it. questions to where I could discover it. questions to where I could discover it. For instance, he didn't just say, "Hey, For instance, he didn't just say, "Hey, For instance, he didn't just say, "Hey, when you ask a question, give it time." when you ask a question, give it time." when you ask a question, give it time." He would say, "When you asked that He would say, "When you asked that He would say, "When you asked that question, did you want them to think question, did you want them to think question, did you want them to think about it?" Yeah. Oh, because I maybe you about it?" Yeah. Oh, because I maybe you about it?" Yeah. Oh, because I maybe you need to give them time, too. I was like, need to give them time, too. I was like, need to give them time, too. I was like, "Oh, for sure." So, when I would say, "Oh, for sure." So, when I would say, "Oh, for sure." So, when I would say, "Do you ever feel like "Do you ever feel like "Do you ever feel like insecure?" And you're I mean, you're not insecure?" And you're I mean, you're not insecure?" And you're I mean, you're not like insecure, you're just like insecure, you're just like insecure, you're just >> just not quite secure. >> just not quite secure. >> just not quite secure. And then you lean in, you give the And then you lean in, you give the And then you lean in, you give the answer. And the other thing I think I answer. And the other thing I think I answer. And the other thing I think I learned, I remember in talking about the learned, I remember in talking about the learned, I remember in talking about the question asking piece was who answers question asking piece was who answers question asking piece was who answers the questions that we can relate to. Is the questions that we can relate to. Is the questions that we can relate to. Is it me and my clever response? If so, it me and my clever response? If so, it me and my clever response? If so, that will likely be quoted, right? And that will likely be quoted, right? And that will likely be quoted, right? And >> okay, spent a lot of time crafting those >> okay, spent a lot of time crafting those >> okay, spent a lot of time crafting those great responses.

great responses. great responses. But something that's been really helpful But something that's been really helpful But something that's been really helpful for me in prepping and teaching has been for me in prepping and teaching has been for me in prepping and teaching has been allowing God's word to actually be the allowing God's word to actually be the allowing God's word to actually be the answer to the questions. So, they can answer to the questions. So, they can answer to the questions. So, they can begin to see that this does answer our begin to see that this does answer our begin to see that this does answer our questions. questions. questions. if we ask them and especially as if we ask them and especially as if we ask them and especially as preachers when we ask them preachers when we ask them preachers when we ask them great question turn to verse 9 you know great question turn to verse 9 you know great question turn to verse 9 you know that sort of stuff is transition that sort of stuff is transition that sort of stuff is transition >> so rather than having the brilliant line >> so rather than having the brilliant line >> so rather than having the brilliant line that everybody will quote on Instagram that everybody will quote on Instagram that everybody will quote on Instagram >> yes >> yes >> yes >> it's like great question >> it's like great question >> it's like great question >> but sometimes they'll be brilliant and >> but sometimes they'll be brilliant and >> but sometimes they'll be brilliant and quote it's like this podcast no I I quote it's like this podcast no I I quote it's like this podcast no I I think um that's going to probably be the think um that's going to probably be the think um that's going to probably be the tension for me in life as a communicator tension for me in life as a communicator tension for me in life as a communicator is wanting to be good at it is wanting to be good at it is wanting to be good at it >> so that I can love them and also so that >> so that I can love them and also so that >> so that I can love them and also so that I can be good at it I can be good at it I can be good at it >> wanting one over the other. But I'll say >> wanting one over the other. But I'll say >> wanting one over the other. But I'll say that wrestle, I remember having this that wrestle, I remember having this that wrestle, I remember having this conversation with someone where I'm conversation with someone where I'm conversation with someone where I'm gosh, I want to serve the Lord. I want gosh, I want to serve the Lord. I want gosh, I want to serve the Lord. I want to partner with the Holy Spirit. I want to partner with the Holy Spirit. I want to partner with the Holy Spirit. I want their lives to change. I want to care their lives to change. I want to care their lives to change. I want to care more about them than I do about myself. more about them than I do about myself. more about them than I do about myself. I want I want I want it to be different. I want I want I want it to be different. I want I want I want it to be different. I want But I still think about myself I want But I still think about myself I want But I still think about myself all the time. I still think about what all the time. I still think about what all the time. I still think about what they thought about me. I still think they thought about me. I still think they thought about me. I still think about what I could have done about what I could have done about what I could have done differently. I still think about what I differently. I still think about what I differently. I still think about what I could do better. And I remember a wise could do better. And I remember a wise could do better. And I remember a wise spiritual director at one point said, spiritual director at one point said, spiritual director at one point said, "Never lose the wrestle.

"Never lose the wrestle. "Never lose the wrestle. >> Don't solve it. just never lose it. >> Don't solve it. just never lose it. >> Don't solve it. just never lose it. >> That's a good point because it is like >> That's a good point because it is like >> That's a good point because it is like you can't help but think how did I do? I you can't help but think how did I do? I you can't help but think how did I do? I spoke yesterday here in Southern spoke yesterday here in Southern spoke yesterday here in Southern California. California. California. >> How did it go? >> How did it go? >> How did it go? >> Yeah, exactly. You know, that's the >> Yeah, exactly. You know, that's the >> Yeah, exactly. You know, that's the question. And the thing is my 5-h hour question. And the thing is my 5-h hour question. And the thing is my 5-h hour flight took me 25 hours just through a flight took me 25 hours just through a flight took me 25 hours just through a strike, an airline strike. Lightning strike, an airline strike. Lightning strike, an airline strike. Lightning strikes and other things landed me um strikes and other things landed me um strikes and other things landed me um >> multiple strikes. >> multiple strikes. >> multiple strikes. >> Yes, multiple strikes. I almost struck >> Yes, multiple strikes. I almost struck >> Yes, multiple strikes. I almost struck out. Uh but I got there with a half hour out. Uh but I got there with a half hour out. Uh but I got there with a half hour to spare. And you know, I was tired to spare. And you know, I was tired to spare. And you know, I was tired because I'd had an overnight in Indie because I'd had an overnight in Indie because I'd had an overnight in Indie the night before where I wasn't supposed the night before where I wasn't supposed the night before where I wasn't supposed to be and then early morning flight to to be and then early morning flight to to be and then early morning flight to Houston and then barely got in in time. Houston and then barely got in in time. Houston and then barely got in in time. Drive up to Carl'sbad, delivered the Drive up to Carl'sbad, delivered the Drive up to Carl'sbad, delivered the talk. And you know, I moved it from an A talk. And you know, I moved it from an A talk. And you know, I moved it from an A to an A minus because, you know, your to an A minus because, you know, your to an A minus because, you know, your words get a bit scrambled sometimes when words get a bit scrambled sometimes when words get a bit scrambled sometimes when you're a little bit tired or frazzled or you're a little bit tired or frazzled or you're a little bit tired or frazzled or whatever, whatever, whatever, >> but at the end of the day, it's like, >> but at the end of the day, it's like, >> but at the end of the day, it's like, does it really matter? I does it matter does it really matter? I does it matter does it really matter? I does it matter more about what they got out of it. they more about what they got out of it. they more about what they got out of it. they raved about it which was which was great raved about it which was which was great raved about it which was which was great but you know you're trying to forget but you know you're trying to forget but you know you're trying to forget about yourself but if you get forget about yourself but if you get forget about yourself but if you get forget about yourself too much about yourself too much about yourself too much >> and then you're just kind of not really >> and then you're just kind of not really >> and then you're just kind of not really paying attention and you're not paying attention and you're not paying attention and you're not developing that gift right like if you developing that gift right like if you developing that gift right like if you see a musician play you want to like see a musician play you want to like see a musician play you want to like your dad was an actor we went to see your dad was an actor we went to see your dad was an actor we went to see George Clooney on Broadway fun George Clooney on Broadway fun George Clooney on Broadway fun >> and it was amazing to see the talent and >> and it was amazing to see the talent and >> and it was amazing to see the talent and skill level involved in a Broadway level skill level involved in a Broadway level skill level involved in a Broadway level play live you know especially with play live you know especially with play live you know especially with George Clooney that was exceptional George Clooney that was exceptional George Clooney that was exceptional Um, and you don't want him to get up Um, and you don't want him to get up Um, and you don't want him to get up there and say, "Yeah, I totally winged there and say, "Yeah, I totally winged there and say, "Yeah, I totally winged it."

it." it." >> Right? >> Right? >> Right? >> You know, like nobody nobody's. >> You know, like nobody nobody's. >> You know, like nobody nobody's. >> Um, I want to get back into more of what >> Um, I want to get back into more of what >> Um, I want to get back into more of what your dad taught you because one of the your dad taught you because one of the your dad taught you because one of the things I'm noticing when you listen to things I'm noticing when you listen to things I'm noticing when you listen to your messages and we're having a your messages and we're having a your messages and we're having a conversation one-on-one, there's not a conversation one-on-one, there's not a conversation one-on-one, there's not a big gap. There's no like stage Megan and big gap. There's no like stage Megan and big gap. There's no like stage Megan and then real life Megan. You are animated. then real life Megan. You are animated. then real life Megan. You are animated. Then you get really quiet and you draw Then you get really quiet and you draw Then you get really quiet and you draw people in, etc., etc. Uh, which I think people in, etc., etc. Uh, which I think people in, etc., etc. Uh, which I think is is is beautiful. What did your dad is is is beautiful. What did your dad is is is beautiful. What did your dad teach you about the use of your voice teach you about the use of your voice teach you about the use of your voice and the use of your body or other and the use of your body or other and the use of your body or other lessons that may have come along? lessons that may have come along? lessons that may have come along? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Gosh. Gosh. Gosh. Yeah. I think probably the most Yeah. I think probably the most Yeah. I think probably the most important lesson for my dad, I love this important lesson for my dad, I love this important lesson for my dad, I love this is what it's become, is is what it's become, is is what it's become, is this may turn into a little parenting this may turn into a little parenting this may turn into a little parenting piece for those listening in, is I could piece for those listening in, is I could piece for those listening in, is I could get emotional on this one. get emotional on this one. get emotional on this one. I genuinely believe that my dad I genuinely believe that my dad I genuinely believe that my dad is always proud of me.

is always proud of me. is always proud of me. It's so funny. We could talk about that. It's so funny. We could talk about that. It's so funny. We could talk about that. Like, oh, how do you use your voice? And Like, oh, how do you use your voice? And Like, oh, how do you use your voice? And that's really, it really is helpful. I that's really, it really is helpful. I that's really, it really is helpful. I mean, I can't believe the amount how mean, I can't believe the amount how mean, I can't believe the amount how useful it is to know how to ask a useful it is to know how to ask a useful it is to know how to ask a question, how to use dynamics, how to question, how to use dynamics, how to question, how to use dynamics, how to consider. Here's an example. My mind's consider. Here's an example. My mind's consider. Here's an example. My mind's wandering, too. Um, if I'm teaching a wandering, too. Um, if I'm teaching a wandering, too. Um, if I'm teaching a bunch of like a bunch of pastors and I bunch of like a bunch of pastors and I bunch of like a bunch of pastors and I know that they already know the verse know that they already know the verse know that they already know the verse that I'm going to say. I'm going to that I'm going to say. I'm going to that I'm going to say. I'm going to speak through it really incredibly fast speak through it really incredibly fast speak through it really incredibly fast and it basically mirrors to them like I and it basically mirrors to them like I and it basically mirrors to them like I know that you know this. There's all know that you know this. There's all know that you know this. There's all sorts of things you're going to sorts of things you're going to sorts of things you're going to naturally do based on your audience and naturally do based on your audience and naturally do based on your audience and knowing your audience. And I feel like a knowing your audience. And I feel like a knowing your audience. And I feel like a lot of this my dad and I would lot of this my dad and I would lot of this my dad and I would communicate about. communicate about. communicate about. But I'd say the reason that I'm even But I'd say the reason that I'm even But I'd say the reason that I'm even listening to my dad in the first place listening to my dad in the first place listening to my dad in the first place about any of it is because I know that about any of it is because I know that about any of it is because I know that he's proud of me, that he delights in he's proud of me, that he delights in he's proud of me, that he delights in that he loves me. Um, and I've already that he loves me. Um, and I've already that he loves me. Um, and I've already shared with you the story of uh one of shared with you the story of uh one of shared with you the story of uh one of my greatest failures just in life, just my greatest failures just in life, just my greatest failures just in life, just a big old miss and my parents response a big old miss and my parents response a big old miss and my parents response to it. Like what a great picture. My to it. Like what a great picture. My to it. Like what a great picture. My parents weren't always perfect by any parents weren't always perfect by any parents weren't always perfect by any means, but they also knew how to means, but they also knew how to means, but they also knew how to apologize. And so I would say more than apologize. And so I would say more than apologize. And so I would say more than all the other stuff, I listened to all all the other stuff, I listened to all all the other stuff, I listened to all the other stuff. I listened to all the, the other stuff. I listened to all the, the other stuff. I listened to all the, you know, he used to teach speech. He you know, he used to teach speech. He you know, he used to teach speech. He used to teach the stuff.

used to teach the stuff. used to teach the stuff. >> Um, I've listened to all that. But the >> Um, I've listened to all that. But the >> Um, I've listened to all that. But the reason I listened to my dad in the first reason I listened to my dad in the first reason I listened to my dad in the first place was because I genuinely believed place was because I genuinely believed place was because I genuinely believed he delighted in me. And I even think he delighted in me. And I even think he delighted in me. And I even think about that with my two boys right now. about that with my two boys right now. about that with my two boys right now. Sometimes I want to correct. Sometimes I Sometimes I want to correct. Sometimes I Sometimes I want to correct. Sometimes I want to encourage. Sometimes I want want to encourage. Sometimes I want want to encourage. Sometimes I want >> but they can tell if I'm delighting in >> but they can tell if I'm delighting in >> but they can tell if I'm delighting in them or not. They can tell if I'm them or not. They can tell if I'm them or not. They can tell if I'm speaking from a place of love. They can speaking from a place of love. They can speaking from a place of love. They can tell if I'm just bugged with them. tell if I'm just bugged with them. tell if I'm just bugged with them. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And I never got that I was bugging my >> And I never got that I was bugging my >> And I never got that I was bugging my dad. I never got that him being with me dad. I never got that him being with me dad. I never got that him being with me or a conversation. Um, yeah. I I felt or a conversation. Um, yeah. I I felt or a conversation. Um, yeah. I I felt like he was always like leaning toward like he was always like leaning toward like he was always like leaning toward the relationship. And I'd say he gave me the relationship. And I'd say he gave me the relationship. And I'd say he gave me a really great setup to know who our God a really great setup to know who our God a really great setup to know who our God is. Um, who wants to teach us to use all is. Um, who wants to teach us to use all is. Um, who wants to teach us to use all the things that he gave us, the mind, the things that he gave us, the mind, the things that he gave us, the mind, the body, our spirit, our passion, our the body, our spirit, our passion, our the body, our spirit, our passion, our emotions, everything that God made us to emotions, everything that God made us to emotions, everything that God made us to be. So, I mean, I've learned a lot from be. So, I mean, I've learned a lot from be. So, I mean, I've learned a lot from my dad. I've also learned a lot from my my dad. I've also learned a lot from my my dad. I've also learned a lot from my heavenly father. In fact, right now what heavenly father. In fact, right now what heavenly father. In fact, right now what I'm studying is whole body wellness and I'm studying is whole body wellness and I'm studying is whole body wellness and whole body health, physical, emotional, whole body health, physical, emotional, whole body health, physical, emotional, social, intellectual, spiritual, I want social, intellectual, spiritual, I want social, intellectual, spiritual, I want to be healthy in every way. So when I'm to be healthy in every way. So when I'm to be healthy in every way. So when I'm teaching, I want to use all of it. When teaching, I want to use all of it. When teaching, I want to use all of it. When I'm speaking with a friend, I want to I'm speaking with a friend, I want to I'm speaking with a friend, I want to use all of it. When I'm considering why use all of it. When I'm considering why use all of it. When I'm considering why my friend is really suffering right now my friend is really suffering right now my friend is really suffering right now mentally or whatever, I want to use all mentally or whatever, I want to use all mentally or whatever, I want to use all of it. I want to be mindful of her whole of it. I want to be mindful of her whole of it. I want to be mindful of her whole person and make sure that when we're person and make sure that when we're person and make sure that when we're when I'm whether I'm pastoring someone when I'm whether I'm pastoring someone when I'm whether I'm pastoring someone or whether I'm befriending somebody that or whether I'm befriending somebody that or whether I'm befriending somebody that I'm utilizing the whole thing and I'd I'm utilizing the whole thing and I'd I'm utilizing the whole thing and I'd say that that's or considering their say that that's or considering their say that that's or considering their whole person. That's something my dad's whole person. That's something my dad's whole person. That's something my dad's just done for me. So, we could talk just done for me. So, we could talk just done for me. So, we could talk about the voice piece. Whatever's

about the voice piece. Whatever's about the voice piece. Whatever's interesting to you. I love people follow interesting to you. I love people follow interesting to you. I love people follow your podcast cuz you your podcast cuz you your podcast cuz you >> there's a lot that's interesting to me. >> there's a lot that's interesting to me. >> there's a lot that's interesting to me. But I do want to I do want to drill down But I do want to I do want to drill down But I do want to I do want to drill down on the voice thing because I I got my on the voice thing because I I got my on the voice thing because I I got my start in radio so I have to be careful start in radio so I have to be careful start in radio so I have to be careful of radio voice sometimes, right? I don't of radio voice sometimes, right? I don't of radio voice sometimes, right? I don't know. I can't do it. I was like, that know. I can't do it. I was like, that know. I can't do it. I was like, that was 40 years ago. 45 years ago. I was was 40 years ago. 45 years ago. I was was 40 years ago. 45 years ago. I was 16. Yeah. 16. Yeah. 16. Yeah. >> Walked into a radio station. They hired >> Walked into a radio station. They hired >> Walked into a radio station. They hired me and then I worked there and in me and then I worked there and in me and then I worked there and in Toronto for a little while. But, Toronto for a little while. But, Toronto for a little while. But, >> you know, I I think my temptation would >> you know, I I think my temptation would >> you know, I I think my temptation would be to be too big on stage and too loud be to be too big on stage and too loud be to be too big on stage and too loud on stage and too and you have to have a on stage and too and you have to have a on stage and too and you have to have a projection. Yes. projection. Yes. projection. Yes. >> Otherwise, it doesn't work. If you're >> Otherwise, it doesn't work. If you're >> Otherwise, it doesn't work. If you're talking like you would talk, you know, talking like you would talk, you know, talking like you would talk, you know, at night to a friend over dinner, at night to a friend over dinner, at night to a friend over dinner, >> it's just not going to be as compelling >> it's just not going to be as compelling >> it's just not going to be as compelling from the stage. But let's let's play it from the stage. But let's let's play it from the stage. But let's let's play it this way. And I I don't want this to be this way. And I I don't want this to be this way. And I I don't want this to be a criticism of anyone in particular, but a criticism of anyone in particular, but a criticism of anyone in particular, but when you watch other messages or other when you watch other messages or other when you watch other messages or other communicators, what are some common communicators, what are some common communicators, what are some common mistakes you see in delivery? I would mistakes you see in delivery? I would mistakes you see in delivery? I would say it can be over amplification, say it can be over amplification, say it can be over amplification, exaggeration, exaggeration, exaggeration, where it's like, I don't think you where it's like, I don't think you where it's like, I don't think you really talk to normal people that way. really talk to normal people that way. really talk to normal people that way. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> That's right. >> Whereas I like to talk on in public the >> Whereas I like to talk on in public the >> Whereas I like to talk on in public the way I talk to normal people, the way I way I talk to normal people, the way I way I talk to normal people, the way I talk to you.

talk to you. talk to you. >> You can tell if people know their >> You can tell if people know their >> You can tell if people know their audience. audience. audience. >> Oh. >> Oh. >> Oh. >> So, you know, I speak differently. >> So, you know, I speak differently. >> So, you know, I speak differently. Although I can say the exact I can speak Although I can say the exact I can speak Although I can say the exact I can speak any message whatever message this is. I any message whatever message this is. I any message whatever message this is. I can share this with high schooler like I can share this with high schooler like I can share this with high schooler like I actually don't typically take content actually don't typically take content actually don't typically take content and shift it per person which is and shift it per person which is and shift it per person which is different. A lot of people I'm sure different. A lot of people I'm sure different. A lot of people I'm sure would. would. would. >> I don't do that. I just I have the same >> I don't do that. I just I have the same >> I don't do that. I just I have the same content. I could do it to a group of content. I could do it to a group of content. I could do it to a group of middle school students, a group of high middle school students, a group of high middle school students, a group of high school students and a group of obviously school students and a group of obviously school students and a group of obviously with like students I might like throw a with like students I might like throw a with like students I might like throw a couple extra stories in there to like couple extra stories in there to like couple extra stories in there to like keep them engaged in the beginning. But keep them engaged in the beginning. But keep them engaged in the beginning. But um what changes is everything I'm doing um what changes is everything I'm doing um what changes is everything I'm doing in between my notes which is never in my in between my notes which is never in my in between my notes which is never in my notes. So it's for instance I used to notes. So it's for instance I used to notes. So it's for instance I used to give the you know 38 random points to give the you know 38 random points to give the you know 38 random points to high school students and then it was high school students and then it was high school students and then it was cool cuz like all these students came cool cuz like all these students came cool cuz like all these students came and gave feedback on all 38 different and gave feedback on all 38 different and gave feedback on all 38 different things. I'm like wow I'm reaching things. I'm like wow I'm reaching things. I'm like wow I'm reaching everybody and then no one would remember everybody and then no one would remember everybody and then no one would remember any of the message you know a week later any of the message you know a week later any of the message you know a week later because it was so scattered and so because it was so scattered and so because it was so scattered and so unorganized. But man I was passionate. unorganized. But man I was passionate. unorganized. But man I was passionate. Uh I used to get critiqued a lot for Uh I used to get critiqued a lot for Uh I used to get critiqued a lot for speaking fast because I was so speaking fast because I was so speaking fast because I was so passionate about everything that I was passionate about everything that I was passionate about everything that I was saying. Yeah. saying. Yeah. saying. Yeah. >> Now, I'll tell you one of the tricks >> Now, I'll tell you one of the tricks >> Now, I'll tell you one of the tricks that I've learned. I actually learned that I've learned. I actually learned that I've learned. I actually learned this one back in school. I went back to this one back in school. I went back to this one back in school. I went back to school to get my doctor in ministry and school to get my doctor in ministry and school to get my doctor in ministry and one of my professors, it was this great one of my professors, it was this great one of my professors, it was this great great moment. He goes, "Do you think great moment. He goes, "Do you think great moment. He goes, "Do you think they really need more information?"

they really need more information?" they really need more information?" >> And I'm like, "Maybe, cuz I think that I >> And I'm like, "Maybe, cuz I think that I >> And I'm like, "Maybe, cuz I think that I do." do." do." >> I might give the wrong answer to that >> I might give the wrong answer to that >> I might give the wrong answer to that question, too. question, too. question, too. >> I don't know. And then what we talked >> I don't know. And then what we talked >> I don't know. And then what we talked about and what I've taken away from it about and what I've taken away from it about and what I've taken away from it is I now is I now is I now say things much simpler. I say a whole say things much simpler. I say a whole say things much simpler. I say a whole lot less. And so I have my notes of what lot less. And so I have my notes of what lot less. And so I have my notes of what I want to say. But the thing that varies I want to say. But the thing that varies I want to say. But the thing that varies per audience and it's very helpful to per audience and it's very helpful to per audience and it's very helpful to know your audience. It's very helpful to know your audience. It's very helpful to know your audience. It's very helpful to listen because then you'll have their listen because then you'll have their listen because then you'll have their language and then you can actually speak language and then you can actually speak language and then you can actually speak to them because you know what they're to them because you know what they're to them because you know what they're actually thinking is to pastor their actually thinking is to pastor their actually thinking is to pastor their conscience. So here's an example. If I conscience. So here's an example. If I conscience. So here's an example. If I say to a room full of people, God loves say to a room full of people, God loves say to a room full of people, God loves you. you. you. If I were to guess, let's say my If I were to guess, let's say my If I were to guess, let's say my audience is, you know, let's say it's a audience is, you know, let's say it's a audience is, you know, let's say it's a congregation, so it's very diverse. I congregation, so it's very diverse. I congregation, so it's very diverse. I wonder how that lands on you. God loves wonder how that lands on you. God loves wonder how that lands on you. God loves you. Maybe some of you are thinking, you. Maybe some of you are thinking, you. Maybe some of you are thinking, I've known that since I was a little I've known that since I was a little I've known that since I was a little girl. Cool. Tell me something I don't girl. Cool. Tell me something I don't girl. Cool. Tell me something I don't know. Yeah, know. Yeah, know. Yeah, >> maybe someone is thinking, "Yeah, but my >> maybe someone is thinking, "Yeah, but my >> maybe someone is thinking, "Yeah, but my dad didn't."

dad didn't." dad didn't." >> So, how can a why does it matter if I >> So, how can a why does it matter if I >> So, how can a why does it matter if I don't actually feel love from the people don't actually feel love from the people don't actually feel love from the people around me? I feel abandoned from people. around me? I feel abandoned from people. around me? I feel abandoned from people. How why does that how does that meet my How why does that how does that meet my How why does that how does that meet my presence? Or maybe another person's presence? Or maybe another person's presence? Or maybe another person's going, going, going, I don't love myself. I can't even make I don't love myself. I can't even make I don't love myself. I can't even make the right choices. How could he love me? the right choices. How could he love me? the right choices. How could he love me? And now the sin stuff is rising up. Or And now the sin stuff is rising up. Or And now the sin stuff is rising up. Or maybe, and if you Here's the weird part. maybe, and if you Here's the weird part. maybe, and if you Here's the weird part. I just said something that most of my I just said something that most of my I just said something that most of my audience already knew. audience already knew. audience already knew. But what am I doing? I'm naming what But what am I doing? I'm naming what But what am I doing? I'm naming what might be rising up in them that they're might be rising up in them that they're might be rising up in them that they're might they might not even be aware of might they might not even be aware of might they might not even be aware of that's arising in them. And what that's that's arising in them. And what that's that's arising in them. And what that's doing is it's opening up the heart. And doing is it's opening up the heart. And doing is it's opening up the heart. And the reason why that's effective is the reason why that's effective is the reason why that's effective is because Proverbs 4 says that above all because Proverbs 4 says that above all because Proverbs 4 says that above all else, guard your heart because else, guard your heart because else, guard your heart because everything you do flows from it. In everything you do flows from it. In everything you do flows from it. In other words, if you want to change your other words, if you want to change your other words, if you want to change your life, you don't change your life by life, you don't change your life by life, you don't change your life by trying to change your life. You don't trying to change your life. You don't trying to change your life. You don't change your life by information. You change your life by information. You change your life by information. You don't change your life by note-taking. don't change your life by note-taking. don't change your life by note-taking. You change your life when you are You change your life when you are You change your life when you are willing to open up the heart so that the willing to open up the heart so that the willing to open up the heart so that the life-changing truth can get deposited. life-changing truth can get deposited. life-changing truth can get deposited. The places you need to know it the most. The places you need to know it the most. The places you need to know it the most. And then your behavior can change above And then your behavior can change above And then your behavior can change above all else. Guard your heart. Everything all else. Guard your heart. Everything all else. Guard your heart. Everything you do flows from it. Why do you do what you do flows from it. Why do you do what you do flows from it. Why do you do what you do? It's in the heart. And so my job you do? It's in the heart. And so my job you do? It's in the heart. And so my job as a communicator, especially within as a communicator, especially within as a communicator, especially within church context, man, is to open the church context, man, is to open the church context, man, is to open the heart. And the best way I know to do heart. And the best way I know to do heart. And the best way I know to do that is to let someone know I see them.

that is to let someone know I see them. that is to let someone know I see them. And the best way when I'm the only one And the best way when I'm the only one And the best way when I'm the only one speaking in the audience to let them speaking in the audience to let them speaking in the audience to let them know that I see them, that I know them know that I see them, that I know them know that I see them, that I know them and that I want to love them is to name and that I want to love them is to name and that I want to love them is to name them so that they feel seen, that they them so that they feel seen, that they them so that they feel seen, that they feel exposed, but they feel exposed in a feel exposed, but they feel exposed in a feel exposed, but they feel exposed in a loving way. So even if I'm bringing up loving way. So even if I'm bringing up loving way. So even if I'm bringing up the sin for me and you be brought up the sin for me and you be brought up the sin for me and you be brought up like what are some mistakes people make? like what are some mistakes people make? like what are some mistakes people make? I feel like people's tone when it comes I feel like people's tone when it comes I feel like people's tone when it comes to people's sin to people's sin to people's sin is not kind yet as scripture says like is not kind yet as scripture says like is not kind yet as scripture says like it's kindness that leads to repentance. it's kindness that leads to repentance. it's kindness that leads to repentance. So, and sin is devastating. And so, if So, and sin is devastating. And so, if So, and sin is devastating. And so, if my tone can be devastated with them, but my tone can be devastated with them, but my tone can be devastated with them, but here's the the truth. Am I devastated here's the the truth. Am I devastated here's the the truth. Am I devastated about it as I'm saying that or is that about it as I'm saying that or is that about it as I'm saying that or is that just something I prepared? just something I prepared? just something I prepared? >> You know, yeah. >> You know, yeah. >> You know, yeah. >> Or I'm judgmental about it. >> Or I'm judgmental about it. >> Or I'm judgmental about it. >> Totally. And so, I would say >> Totally. And so, I would say >> Totally. And so, I would say >> some of my natural critiques probably >> some of my natural critiques probably >> some of my natural critiques probably that come up in my brain is twofold. one that come up in my brain is twofold. one that come up in my brain is twofold. one um um um that sometimes I can tell that the that sometimes I can tell that the that sometimes I can tell that the message hasn't landed with them message hasn't landed with them message hasn't landed with them personally and so they feel more personally and so they feel more personally and so they feel more performative in the content like well performative in the content like well performative in the content like well here's and it's good content like the here's and it's good content like the here's and it's good content like the best part is God's going to use it. He best part is God's going to use it. He best part is God's going to use it. He uses all truth. So praise be to God. Um uses all truth. So praise be to God. Um uses all truth. So praise be to God. Um you can you can kind of tell when it you can you can kind of tell when it you can you can kind of tell when it hasn't like met someone that you can hasn't like met someone that you can hasn't like met someone that you can tell that they're not urgent for someone tell that they're not urgent for someone tell that they're not urgent for someone to get it like they've gotten. You'll to get it like they've gotten. You'll to get it like they've gotten. You'll catch it in their language. You catch it catch it in their language. You catch it catch it in their language. You catch it in their tone, their delivery, all of in their tone, their delivery, all of in their tone, their delivery, all of that. And the second one is that stress that. And the second one is that stress that. And the second one is that stress that they feel to convince people of that they feel to convince people of that they feel to convince people of things and this burden that you could things and this burden that you could things and this burden that you could tell that they carry whether it's and tell that they carry whether it's and tell that they carry whether it's and they use their voice to be passionate they use their voice to be passionate they use their voice to be passionate which is great but I can remember times which is great but I can remember times which is great but I can remember times early on for me I would rely more on

early on for me I would rely more on early on for me I would rely more on passion than the Holy Spirit passion than the Holy Spirit passion than the Holy Spirit when I said when I felt like I was lo when I said when I felt like I was lo when I said when I felt like I was lo losing the audience I would get more losing the audience I would get more losing the audience I would get more passion yeah even though the present passion yeah even though the present passion yeah even though the present thing I was talking about lost the thing I was talking about lost the thing I was talking about lost the audience in the first place if I audience in the first place if I audience in the first place if I suddenly got a little bit loud people suddenly got a little bit loud people suddenly got a little bit loud people are going to be leading in are going to be leading in are going to be leading in >> and I was relying more on passion then >> and I was relying more on passion then >> and I was relying more on passion then going going going the Holy Spirit. Now let me get the Holy Spirit. Now let me get the Holy Spirit. Now let me get practical on how do you rely on the Holy practical on how do you rely on the Holy practical on how do you rely on the Holy Spirit. You come back to what's true Spirit. You come back to what's true Spirit. You come back to what's true and then you allow him you create space and then you allow him you create space and then you allow him you create space for him to do what he does. He convicts, for him to do what he does. He convicts, for him to do what he does. He convicts, he comforts, he and he of course uses he comforts, he and he of course uses he comforts, he and he of course uses us. But I would say those are just a few us. But I would say those are just a few us. But I would say those are just a few things that kind of come to mind when I things that kind of come to mind when I things that kind of come to mind when I see other people. I don't even know see other people. I don't even know see other people. I don't even know exactly how to ask this question, but I exactly how to ask this question, but I exactly how to ask this question, but I feel like um you know, watching you, feel like um you know, watching you, feel like um you know, watching you, I've been impressed uh by a number of I've been impressed uh by a number of I've been impressed uh by a number of things, and it's giftedness. So, we things, and it's giftedness. So, we things, and it's giftedness. So, we we'll give God the glory on this one, we'll give God the glory on this one, we'll give God the glory on this one, >> but you have uh a synchronicity between >> but you have uh a synchronicity between >> but you have uh a synchronicity between your voice and your body/mannerisms your voice and your body/mannerisms your voice and your body/mannerisms >> that isn't always present in >> that isn't always present in >> that isn't always present in communicators. communicators. communicators. >> Yeah. Um, I I listen to your voice and >> Yeah. Um, I I listen to your voice and >> Yeah. Um, I I listen to your voice and you seem to know intuitively when to get you seem to know intuitively when to get you seem to know intuitively when to get loud, loud, loud, >> when to slow down, when to get soft, >> when to slow down, when to get soft, >> when to slow down, when to get soft, when to And it seems very natural. It when to And it seems very natural. It when to And it seems very natural. It doesn't feel contrived in the least. So, doesn't feel contrived in the least. So, doesn't feel contrived in the least. So, you started out by going 28 points, 150 you started out by going 28 points, 150 you started out by going 28 points, 150 m an hour with strong passion.

m an hour with strong passion. m an hour with strong passion. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And now a number of years later, you're >> And now a number of years later, you're >> And now a number of years later, you're here. here. here. >> Simple. Yeah. >> Simple. Yeah. >> Simple. Yeah. >> How much of that is learned? >> How much of that is learned? >> How much of that is learned? >> Yeah. How much of that is just reps? And >> Yeah. How much of that is just reps? And >> Yeah. How much of that is just reps? And can you coach those of us who might not can you coach those of us who might not can you coach those of us who might not have that kind of synchronicity or have that kind of synchronicity or have that kind of synchronicity or congruity on how to get a little more in congruity on how to get a little more in congruity on how to get a little more in sync with sync with sync with >> uh your voice and your body and the >> uh your voice and your body and the >> uh your voice and your body and the gestures and mannerisms that actually gestures and mannerisms that actually gestures and mannerisms that actually >> draw people in. >> draw people in. >> draw people in. >> Yeah. I I you you said something earlier >> Yeah. I I you you said something earlier >> Yeah. I I you you said something earlier that I found a lot of encouragement in that I found a lot of encouragement in that I found a lot of encouragement in when you said, "Oh, the person you are when you said, "Oh, the person you are when you said, "Oh, the person you are on stage is similar to you here." on stage is similar to you here." on stage is similar to you here." >> Yeah. And so my reps aren't just on >> Yeah. And so my reps aren't just on >> Yeah. And so my reps aren't just on stage, though I do feel really grateful stage, though I do feel really grateful stage, though I do feel really grateful to have worked at a camp where I got to to have worked at a camp where I got to to have worked at a camp where I got to give the exact same message 20 times in give the exact same message 20 times in give the exact same message 20 times in one summer. And so you learn how to do one summer. And so you learn how to do one summer. And so you learn how to do storytelling, right? You learn like storytelling, right? You learn like storytelling, right? You learn like you're going to tell the same story and you're going to tell the same story and you're going to tell the same story and you learn what works and you practice it you learn what works and you practice it you learn what works and you practice it by I mean that sermon was way better by by I mean that sermon was way better by by I mean that sermon was way better by the 20th time than it was on the first. the 20th time than it was on the first. the 20th time than it was on the first. >> Um, so I feel like I got the gift of >> Um, so I feel like I got the gift of >> Um, so I feel like I got the gift of reps which especially a lot of females reps which especially a lot of females reps which especially a lot of females don't get a ton of reps and so I feel don't get a ton of reps and so I feel don't get a ton of reps and so I feel grateful for that. But I'd also say it's grateful for that. But I'd also say it's grateful for that. But I'd also say it's these types of dialogues and genuinely I these types of dialogues and genuinely I these types of dialogues and genuinely I can't urge this enough listening to can't urge this enough listening to can't urge this enough listening to people. Uh that was something I people. Uh that was something I people. Uh that was something I challenged myself with when I did some challenged myself with when I did some challenged myself with when I did some word study throughout the Bible and it word study throughout the Bible and it word study throughout the Bible and it was like how many times Jesus asked was like how many times Jesus asked was like how many times Jesus asked versus was asked questions. What is it versus was asked questions. What is it versus was asked questions. What is it like? I think the stats are he was asked like? I think the stats are he was asked like? I think the stats are he was asked 184. He asked 307 of the 184 that he 184. He asked 307 of the 184 that he 184. He asked 307 of the 184 that he asked was asked. He only answered three asked was asked. He only answered three asked was asked. He only answered three directly. Like how frustrating. So he

directly. Like how frustrating. So he directly. Like how frustrating. So he was always just highly relational. And was always just highly relational. And was always just highly relational. And so I'd say a lot of this stuff has just so I'd say a lot of this stuff has just so I'd say a lot of this stuff has just been from having these types of been from having these types of been from having these types of conversations and learning throughout conversations and learning throughout conversations and learning throughout the entire way how I could be doing the entire way how I could be doing the entire way how I could be doing things better. And I I can remember things better. And I I can remember things better. And I I can remember vivid turning points in ministry. I'm vivid turning points in ministry. I'm vivid turning points in ministry. I'm kind of losing the question a little kind of losing the question a little kind of losing the question a little bit. I'm just going over here. So but oh bit. I'm just going over here. So but oh bit. I'm just going over here. So but oh one thing I will say tip and trick one thing I will say tip and trick one thing I will say tip and trick though for people uh on speaking then though for people uh on speaking then though for people uh on speaking then I'll get back to the thing that I I'll get back to the thing that I I'll get back to the thing that I learned. Um the tip and trick on learned. Um the tip and trick on learned. Um the tip and trick on speaking. Someone made this comment speaking. Someone made this comment speaking. Someone made this comment about me and I didn't realize I did it about me and I didn't realize I did it about me and I didn't realize I did it is that I make word pictures and then I is that I make word pictures and then I is that I make word pictures and then I come back to them on stage with my come back to them on stage with my come back to them on stage with my hands. So hands. So hands. So >> yes, >> yes, >> yes, >> you do. >> you do. >> you do. >> But like I'll I'll talk about here's the >> But like I'll I'll talk about here's the >> But like I'll I'll talk about here's the sin and it's right there and it's almost sin and it's right there and it's almost sin and it's right there and it's almost like I have a ball of sin that's just like I have a ball of sin that's just like I have a ball of sin that's just hanging out and so I can then talk about hanging out and so I can then talk about hanging out and so I can then talk about my message but when I talk about the sin my message but when I talk about the sin my message but when I talk about the sin it's right there. So I'll reference it it's right there. So I'll reference it it's right there. So I'll reference it and for some reason it kind of just and for some reason it kind of just and for some reason it kind of just works and so get that out of our life. works and so get that out of our life. works and so get that out of our life. Um but here's an example of it. So, I I Um but here's an example of it. So, I I Um but here's an example of it. So, I I learned uh from Dr. John Co that a uh learned uh from Dr. John Co that a uh learned uh from Dr. John Co that a uh wandering mind in prayer is a gift. When wandering mind in prayer is a gift. When wandering mind in prayer is a gift. When I think of the word wander, my mind's I think of the word wander, my mind's I think of the word wander, my mind's going like this. And so, of course, I'd going like this. And so, of course, I'd going like this. And so, of course, I'd say it instead of just going a wandering say it instead of just going a wandering say it instead of just going a wandering mind and prayer is a gift. Obviously, mind and prayer is a gift. Obviously, mind and prayer is a gift. Obviously, this is relatable because your mind this is relatable because your mind this is relatable because your mind wanders. I'm using my face to go like, wanders. I'm using my face to go like, wanders. I'm using my face to go like, you know, kind of just kind of somewhere you know, kind of just kind of somewhere you know, kind of just kind of somewhere else. Now, I'm over here. Like, you're else. Now, I'm over here. Like, you're else. Now, I'm over here. Like, you're using everything.

using everything. using everything. >> You really do. >> You really do. >> You really do. >> Yeah. So, I would use this where I talk >> Yeah. So, I would use this where I talk >> Yeah. So, I would use this where I talk about Okay. So, you know, when you go to about Okay. So, you know, when you go to about Okay. So, you know, when you go to prayer and you're starting to perform in prayer and you're starting to perform in prayer and you're starting to perform in prayer, dear Lord, thine is the kingdom prayer, dear Lord, thine is the kingdom prayer, dear Lord, thine is the kingdom and the glory forever and ever. And all and the glory forever and ever. And all and the glory forever and ever. And all God's children said, "Amen." And and God's children said, "Amen." And and God's children said, "Amen." And and you're doing this unintentional you're doing this unintentional you're doing this unintentional performance and then suddenly your mind performance and then suddenly your mind performance and then suddenly your mind starts to wander and now you're over starts to wander and now you're over starts to wander and now you're over here. And so if I'm doing this live on a here. And so if I'm doing this live on a here. And so if I'm doing this live on a stage, I physically walk somewhere else stage, I physically walk somewhere else stage, I physically walk somewhere else cuz now I'm over here. And then you're cuz now I'm over here. And then you're cuz now I'm over here. And then you're like, "What?" And then when you what do like, "What?" And then when you what do like, "What?" And then when you what do you do when you realize it? And I kind you do when you realize it? And I kind you do when you realize it? And I kind of wait on the audience and it's like, of wait on the audience and it's like, of wait on the audience and it's like, "Yeah, you pause the prayer and you "Yeah, you pause the prayer and you "Yeah, you pause the prayer and you shame yourself." And then I walk back shame yourself." And then I walk back shame yourself." And then I walk back over to where my performance was. You over to where my performance was. You over to where my performance was. You shame yourself back to the performance shame yourself back to the performance shame yourself back to the performance where I'm so sorry. You're not sure what where I'm so sorry. You're not sure what where I'm so sorry. You're not sure what happened there. I'm back. I'm back, happened there. I'm back. I'm back, happened there. I'm back. I'm back, Lord. Um uh where was I? And then I'll Lord. Um uh where was I? And then I'll Lord. Um uh where was I? And then I'll teach the idea that uh from John Co. a teach the idea that uh from John Co. a teach the idea that uh from John Co. a wandering mind and prayer is a gift wandering mind and prayer is a gift wandering mind and prayer is a gift because where's your mind wandering to? because where's your mind wandering to? because where's your mind wandering to? Probably the very thing that has your Probably the very thing that has your Probably the very thing that has your heart. Heart matters. Everything you do heart. Heart matters. Everything you do heart. Heart matters. Everything you do flows from it. So let's talk about that. flows from it. So let's talk about that. flows from it. So let's talk about that. In other words, practical tip, don't In other words, practical tip, don't In other words, practical tip, don't pause the prayer. But what I'm pause the prayer. But what I'm pause the prayer. But what I'm illustrating here is a visual allows illustrating here is a visual allows illustrating here is a visual allows people to go with you. And then when you people to go with you. And then when you people to go with you. And then when you come back to the point, you come back to come back to the point, you come back to come back to the point, you come back to a physical location. I'll be honest, a physical location. I'll be honest, a physical location. I'll be honest, this isn't stuff I think about ahead of this isn't stuff I think about ahead of this isn't stuff I think about ahead of time a ton, but I just want to encourage time a ton, but I just want to encourage time a ton, but I just want to encourage people to try a little bit. When you're people to try a little bit. When you're people to try a little bit. When you're when you're talking about something, when you're talking about something, when you're talking about something, find yourself somewhere. Move. And then find yourself somewhere. Move. And then find yourself somewhere. Move. And then when you talk about the thing, go back when you talk about the thing, go back when you talk about the thing, go back to it. Whether it's a sinball in front to it. Whether it's a sinball in front to it. Whether it's a sinball in front of you or whether it is a wandering mind of you or whether it is a wandering mind of you or whether it is a wandering mind that's now way over there uh enjoying that's now way over there uh enjoying that's now way over there uh enjoying that. And when someone, the reason I that. And when someone, the reason I that. And when someone, the reason I bring that one up is when someone bring that one up is when someone bring that one up is when someone reflected back to me like you create reflected back to me like you create reflected back to me like you create these like word pictures. I was like, I

these like word pictures. I was like, I these like word pictures. I was like, I do. And then I just went I want to do do. And then I just went I want to do do. And then I just went I want to do more of that cuz it seemed to be useful. more of that cuz it seemed to be useful. more of that cuz it seemed to be useful. So there's been moments that people have So there's been moments that people have So there's been moments that people have reflected back to me and I'd say this reflected back to me and I'd say this reflected back to me and I'd say this for anyone who's been communicator what for anyone who's been communicator what for anyone who's been communicator what are people saying like receive it in a are people saying like receive it in a are people saying like receive it in a way that impacts you. I remember at some way that impacts you. I remember at some way that impacts you. I remember at some point um realizing as that I was a point um realizing as that I was a point um realizing as that I was a really crummy small group leader when I really crummy small group leader when I really crummy small group leader when I used to volunteer in a high school used to volunteer in a high school used to volunteer in a high school ministry and I'm like what and they were ministry and I'm like what and they were ministry and I'm like what and they were basically saying like all right how many basically saying like all right how many basically saying like all right how many of you create space for the Holy Spirit of you create space for the Holy Spirit of you create space for the Holy Spirit to teach or how many of you do you feel to teach or how many of you do you feel to teach or how many of you do you feel the full burden to teach your small the full burden to teach your small the full burden to teach your small group and pull their teeth to get the group and pull their teeth to get the group and pull their teeth to get the answers and I felt so convicted because answers and I felt so convicted because answers and I felt so convicted because they spoke out of my conscience and I they spoke out of my conscience and I they spoke out of my conscience and I remember going back and uh finding one remember going back and uh finding one remember going back and uh finding one of my small group girls years later and of my small group girls years later and of my small group girls years later and I'm like oh my gosh I was such a crummy I'm like oh my gosh I was such a crummy I'm like oh my gosh I was such a crummy small small group leader and she goes, small small group leader and she goes, small small group leader and she goes, "No, you weren't. You were the best." "No, you weren't. You were the best." "No, you weren't. You were the best." And I said, "Why do you say that?" She And I said, "Why do you say that?" She And I said, "Why do you say that?" She goes, "You knew the answer to goes, "You knew the answer to goes, "You knew the answer to everything." And I went, "That's it. everything." And I went, "That's it. everything." And I went, "That's it. Did I ever help you like discover truth Did I ever help you like discover truth Did I ever help you like discover truth for yourself, or was it all about me for yourself, or was it all about me for yourself, or was it all about me just having the right answers?"

just having the right answers?" just having the right answers?" And oddly, that gal doesn't pursue Jesus And oddly, that gal doesn't pursue Jesus And oddly, that gal doesn't pursue Jesus these days. She never learned how to these days. She never learned how to these days. She never learned how to discover those answers. And I remember discover those answers. And I remember discover those answers. And I remember that conversation. that conversation. that conversation. And so I'll just say um for listeners And so I'll just say um for listeners And so I'll just say um for listeners leaning into this podcast or any podcast leaning into this podcast or any podcast leaning into this podcast or any podcast or all the listening we're doing, I or all the listening we're doing, I or all the listening we're doing, I don't think it's ever going to be about don't think it's ever going to be about don't think it's ever going to be about finding some silver bullets going to finding some silver bullets going to finding some silver bullets going to solve us. Whether it's a certain solve us. Whether it's a certain solve us. Whether it's a certain technique or whatever, I just say this, technique or whatever, I just say this, technique or whatever, I just say this, keep learning forever. Whether it's the keep learning forever. Whether it's the keep learning forever. Whether it's the feedback of other people, whether it's feedback of other people, whether it's feedback of other people, whether it's listening to people so that when you're listening to people so that when you're listening to people so that when you're teaching truth, you know how it lands teaching truth, you know how it lands teaching truth, you know how it lands because you've sat face to face with because you've sat face to face with because you've sat face to face with someone, or whether it's someone giving someone, or whether it's someone giving someone, or whether it's someone giving you actual feedback on something you do you actual feedback on something you do you actual feedback on something you do great or criticism if you have the uh great or criticism if you have the uh great or criticism if you have the uh humility to receive it, humility to receive it, humility to receive it, let everything continue to change you. let everything continue to change you. let everything continue to change you. Let God use everything. And I'd say I Let God use everything. And I'd say I Let God use everything. And I'd say I hope that in five years I'm looking back hope that in five years I'm looking back hope that in five years I'm looking back on who I was or who I am today and on who I was or who I am today and on who I was or who I am today and critiquing the heck out of it because of critiquing the heck out of it because of critiquing the heck out of it because of how far he's grown me um to then. how far he's grown me um to then. how far he's grown me um to then. >> How do you get feedback that's >> How do you get feedback that's >> How do you get feedback that's meaningful and helpful?

meaningful and helpful? meaningful and helpful? >> I invite there's one friend in >> I invite there's one friend in >> I invite there's one friend in particular that particular that particular that after I'll speak it's so funny after I'll speak it's so funny after I'll speak it's so funny especially there's and she's such an especially there's and she's such an especially there's and she's such an encourager. encourager. encourager. I'll say uh she'll take notes and then I'll say uh she'll take notes and then I'll say uh she'll take notes and then like I legitimately we have a like I legitimately we have a like I legitimately we have a conversation with feedback and it's not conversation with feedback and it's not conversation with feedback and it's not just on content although she'll share just on content although she'll share just on content although she'll share that how it's like affected her heart that how it's like affected her heart that how it's like affected her heart which I think opens me up to even any of which I think opens me up to even any of which I think opens me up to even any of the criticism which she never or rarely the criticism which she never or rarely the criticism which she never or rarely gives but um she'll talk about how and gives but um she'll talk about how and gives but um she'll talk about how and then she'll go through and we'll even then she'll go through and we'll even then she'll go through and we'll even laugh about the little funny humorous laugh about the little funny humorous laugh about the little funny humorous moments or if I've given a sermon moments or if I've given a sermon moments or if I've given a sermon somewhere before and then giving it a somewhere before and then giving it a somewhere before and then giving it a second time she like I want to hear the second time she like I want to hear the second time she like I want to hear the second time. I happen to have a friend second time. I happen to have a friend second time. I happen to have a friend like this and I invite that type of like this and I invite that type of like this and I invite that type of conversation afterwards and she'll take conversation afterwards and she'll take conversation afterwards and she'll take notes. Um, so there's like people that I notes. Um, so there's like people that I notes. Um, so there's like people that I plan on having those types of feedback. plan on having those types of feedback. plan on having those types of feedback. Um, another thing I do is when there's, Um, another thing I do is when there's, Um, another thing I do is when there's, you know, a couple people in line that you know, a couple people in line that you know, a couple people in line that want to have a conversation afterwards, want to have a conversation afterwards, want to have a conversation afterwards, I'll ask how, like, you know, they'll I'll ask how, like, you know, they'll I'll ask how, like, you know, they'll say something encouraging, but then I'll say something encouraging, but then I'll say something encouraging, but then I'll redirect it to go, "How did God like how redirect it to go, "How did God like how redirect it to go, "How did God like how is God speaking to you through this?" is God speaking to you through this?" is God speaking to you through this?" And that gives me all the feedback I And that gives me all the feedback I And that gives me all the feedback I need right there because then they'll need right there because then they'll need right there because then they'll get into like, oh, and then they'll talk get into like, oh, and then they'll talk get into like, oh, and then they'll talk about the content. My goal being that about the content. My goal being that about the content. My goal being that they direct and recognize like God's the they direct and recognize like God's the they direct and recognize like God's the one really that is getting a hold of one really that is getting a hold of one really that is getting a hold of their heart. He's using me. He'll use their heart. He's using me. He'll use their heart. He's using me. He'll use anyone that's willing.

anyone that's willing. anyone that's willing. But then I can know like what am I doing But then I can know like what am I doing But then I can know like what am I doing that actually connects them with him that actually connects them with him that actually connects them with him instead of just gets them to like me or instead of just gets them to like me or instead of just gets them to like me or like it being the message that I give. like it being the message that I give. like it being the message that I give. So I think some of the best feedback is So I think some of the best feedback is So I think some of the best feedback is genuinely knowing how I connected them genuinely knowing how I connected them genuinely knowing how I connected them with God himself. And you can ask people with God himself. And you can ask people with God himself. And you can ask people that directly especially when they're that directly especially when they're that directly especially when they're there trying to give you encouragement. there trying to give you encouragement. there trying to give you encouragement. >> You mentioned getting reps as a woman. >> You mentioned getting reps as a woman. >> You mentioned getting reps as a woman. So, you know, we're still in an era So, you know, we're still in an era So, you know, we're still in an era where it's not as easy for women where it's not as easy for women where it's not as easy for women preachers as it is for men. preachers as it is for men. preachers as it is for men. >> Um, what kind of barriers did you run >> Um, what kind of barriers did you run >> Um, what kind of barriers did you run into early on or maybe even today? And into early on or maybe even today? And into early on or maybe even today? And then what advice do you have for female then what advice do you have for female then what advice do you have for female preachers who feel a call to ministry? preachers who feel a call to ministry? preachers who feel a call to ministry? >> Yeah. Hot topic. That might get hot. No, no, Hot topic. That might get hot. No, no, no. It doesn't have to be. So, I would no. It doesn't have to be. So, I would no. It doesn't have to be. So, I would say I have a few stories say I have a few stories say I have a few stories that I won't go into, but they were that I won't go into, but they were that I won't go into, but they were hurtful of being a female, as you can hurtful of being a female, as you can hurtful of being a female, as you can imagine. imagine. imagine. And And And my advice for a woman who is listening, my advice for a woman who is listening, my advice for a woman who is listening, who desires to share God's word, I would who desires to share God's word, I would who desires to share God's word, I would just encourage them to not wait for the just encourage them to not wait for the just encourage them to not wait for the platform.

platform. platform. Don't wait for the platform. Don't wait Don't wait for the platform. Don't wait Don't wait for the platform. Don't wait for the followers. You have an area and for the followers. You have an area and for the followers. You have an area and a sphere of influence um that's around a sphere of influence um that's around a sphere of influence um that's around you and the reps you need are right you and the reps you need are right you and the reps you need are right there before they're probably going to there before they're probably going to there before they're probably going to be on the stage. Um I'll have a lot of be on the stage. Um I'll have a lot of be on the stage. Um I'll have a lot of gals actually walk up and go like, I gals actually walk up and go like, I gals actually walk up and go like, I think I'm ready to speak. I think I have think I'm ready to speak. I think I have think I'm ready to speak. I think I have a message to share. And I would a message to share. And I would a message to share. And I would encourage them with two things. Number encourage them with two things. Number encourage them with two things. Number one, share. And number two, listen. If one, share. And number two, listen. If one, share. And number two, listen. If you haven't noticed, that's a huge one you haven't noticed, that's a huge one you haven't noticed, that's a huge one for me. Um and to define it, listening for me. Um and to define it, listening for me. Um and to define it, listening is not waiting for your turn to talk. is not waiting for your turn to talk. is not waiting for your turn to talk. Listening is listening. And when you Listening is listening. And when you Listening is listening. And when you listen, you learn how to love somebody. listen, you learn how to love somebody. listen, you learn how to love somebody. So, uh, it's learning how to love people So, uh, it's learning how to love people So, uh, it's learning how to love people because really what teaching God's word because really what teaching God's word because really what teaching God's word is is an act of loving people. And if we is is an act of loving people. And if we is is an act of loving people. And if we haven't listened to those people, I haven't listened to those people, I haven't listened to those people, I don't think we'll know how to actually don't think we'll know how to actually don't think we'll know how to actually love them. I think we'll know how to love them. I think we'll know how to love them. I think we'll know how to speak at them. I think we'll know how to speak at them. I think we'll know how to speak at them. I think we'll know how to inform them, but we won't necessarily inform them, but we won't necessarily inform them, but we won't necessarily know how to love them. And as my friend know how to love them. And as my friend know how to love them. And as my friend Allison Prior reminded me, if it's Allison Prior reminded me, if it's Allison Prior reminded me, if it's without love, it's just crash, crash, without love, it's just crash, crash, without love, it's just crash, crash, crash. crash. crash. And there's a lot of voices and there's And there's a lot of voices and there's And there's a lot of voices and there's a lot of speakers and there's a lot of a lot of speakers and there's a lot of a lot of speakers and there's a lot of content and there's a lot of social content and there's a lot of social content and there's a lot of social media accounts and there's a lot of media accounts and there's a lot of media accounts and there's a lot of angry people and there's a lot of smart angry people and there's a lot of smart angry people and there's a lot of smart people and there's a lot of informed people and there's a lot of informed people and there's a lot of informed people. I think the thing that'll change people. I think the thing that'll change people. I think the thing that'll change people is going to be love. So people is going to be love. So people is going to be love. So >> to the female communicators looking for >> to the female communicators looking for >> to the female communicators looking for reps.

reps. reps. >> I would say this. Don't run ahead. Wait. It's funny that that I this is Wait. It's funny that that I this is probably I'm sure other people sitting probably I'm sure other people sitting probably I'm sure other people sitting in your chair would would say in your chair would would say in your chair would would say differently. So, and I'm aware of that differently. So, and I'm aware of that differently. So, and I'm aware of that and I think it might be a different word and I think it might be a different word and I think it might be a different word for a different time, but there might be for a different time, but there might be for a different time, but there might be someone listening that needs to receive someone listening that needs to receive someone listening that needs to receive this word. I don't think you need to this word. I don't think you need to this word. I don't think you need to knock down doors to get your reps. I knock down doors to get your reps. I knock down doors to get your reps. I don't think you need to push open doors. don't think you need to push open doors. don't think you need to push open doors. I don't think if you're not welcome I don't think if you're not welcome I don't think if you're not welcome there, I don't think you need to try to there, I don't think you need to try to there, I don't think you need to try to be. I'd say this. You have been gifted be. I'd say this. You have been gifted be. I'd say this. You have been gifted and entrusted with roles, relationships, and entrusted with roles, relationships, and entrusted with roles, relationships, and responsibilities already, which I'd and responsibilities already, which I'd and responsibilities already, which I'd say is going to be the best place to say is going to be the best place to say is going to be the best place to practice your quote reps. That the way practice your quote reps. That the way practice your quote reps. That the way you'll learn how to pastor and speak to you'll learn how to pastor and speak to you'll learn how to pastor and speak to people is when you know them. And the people is when you know them. And the people is when you know them. And the best way to know them is to ask really best way to know them is to ask really best way to know them is to ask really good questions. And when they answer, to good questions. And when they answer, to good questions. And when they answer, to have listened so well that you know the have listened so well that you know the have listened so well that you know the next one. And then you know the next next one. And then you know the next next one. And then you know the next one. And then you might even get to a one. And then you might even get to a one. And then you might even get to a place that they don't even know the place that they don't even know the place that they don't even know the answer to that only God himself does. answer to that only God himself does. answer to that only God himself does. And it will acquire his spirit. and And it will acquire his spirit. and And it will acquire his spirit. and he'll be a part of that conversation. he'll be a part of that conversation. he'll be a part of that conversation. I'd encourage people to become in order I'd encourage people to become in order I'd encourage people to become in order to become better communicators with more to become better communicators with more to become better communicators with more reps to become amazing listeners on reps to become amazing listeners on reps to become amazing listeners on walks and at table talks and also to walks and at table talks and also to walks and at table talks and also to know the person you're talking to which know the person you're talking to which know the person you're talking to which one they need cuz some people can do the one they need cuz some people can do the one they need cuz some people can do the sidebyside walking and some people can sidebyside walking and some people can sidebyside walking and some people can handle the face to face and know your handle the face to face and know your handle the face to face and know your audience because some people could not audience because some people could not audience because some people could not handle this. So learn how to know handle this. So learn how to know handle this. So learn how to know people, how to walk with people, when to people, how to walk with people, when to people, how to walk with people, when to walk with people.

walk with people. walk with people. >> Yeah, you're right. side by side combo >> Yeah, you're right. side by side combo >> Yeah, you're right. side by side combo versus face to face. versus face to face. versus face to face. >> Yes. And then when it comes >> Yes. And then when it comes >> Yes. And then when it comes >> parenting technique for teenagers. >> parenting technique for teenagers. >> parenting technique for teenagers. >> Oh man. >> Oh man. >> Oh man. >> Oh, I just been I've been studying like >> Oh, I just been I've been studying like >> Oh, I just been I've been studying like um all the mind body stuff and the um all the mind body stuff and the um all the mind body stuff and the connection between mind body and then connection between mind body and then connection between mind body and then also uh also uh also uh >> we won't get into all this but um >> we won't get into all this but um >> we won't get into all this but um >> like even our system that happens inside >> like even our system that happens inside >> like even our system that happens inside of us and what happens but with kids if of us and what happens but with kids if of us and what happens but with kids if you want to have a conversation if you you want to have a conversation if you you want to have a conversation if you really want to shepherd kids just play really want to shepherd kids just play really want to shepherd kids just play with them. with them. with them. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> They will not say I don't remember who >> They will not say I don't remember who >> They will not say I don't remember who said this someone did. They said kids said this someone did. They said kids said this someone did. They said kids will not ask you tell you that they need will not ask you tell you that they need will not ask you tell you that they need to talk. They'll say, "Can you play with to talk. They'll say, "Can you play with to talk. They'll say, "Can you play with me?" me?" me?" >> What a gift. >> What a gift. >> What a gift. >> You're looking, ladies, for reps. Look >> You're looking, ladies, for reps. Look >> You're looking, ladies, for reps. Look to what's around you and where God's to what's around you and where God's to what's around you and where God's already inviting you in to speak, but already inviting you in to speak, but already inviting you in to speak, but also to listen. also to listen. also to listen. >> Megan, I don't want this to be a >> Megan, I don't want this to be a >> Megan, I don't want this to be a paternalistic question in any way. So, paternalistic question in any way. So, paternalistic question in any way. So, if it is, feel free to reframe it. But if it is, feel free to reframe it. But if it is, feel free to reframe it. But what have men done along your journey what have men done along your journey what have men done along your journey that has been helpful to open doors, to that has been helpful to open doors, to that has been helpful to open doors, to uh extend invitations, anything along uh extend invitations, anything along uh extend invitations, anything along the way? Cuz we have a lot of men the way? Cuz we have a lot of men the way? Cuz we have a lot of men listening. listening. listening. >> Yeah. You probably want to help female >> Yeah. You probably want to help female >> Yeah. You probably want to help female communicators.

communicators. communicators. >> I would say one of the most practical >> I would say one of the most practical >> I would say one of the most practical things you can do is to tell a female things you can do is to tell a female things you can do is to tell a female that you're trying to empower how you that you're trying to empower how you that you're trying to empower how you have learned from them, not that they're have learned from them, not that they're have learned from them, not that they're great. Although they probably want to great. Although they probably want to great. Although they probably want to hear that they're great. hear that they're great. hear that they're great. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> They that's almost their felt need. I'd >> They that's almost their felt need. I'd >> They that's almost their felt need. I'd say their actual need is to believe they say their actual need is to believe they say their actual need is to believe they have something that will be helpful. And have something that will be helpful. And have something that will be helpful. And the best piece and I'm thinking of the best piece and I'm thinking of the best piece and I'm thinking of certain people in my life that have certain people in my life that have certain people in my life that have said, "Oh, here's something I've learned said, "Oh, here's something I've learned said, "Oh, here's something I've learned from you." That is like the proof of the from you." That is like the proof of the from you." That is like the proof of the type of encouragement that they actually type of encouragement that they actually type of encouragement that they actually need. need. need. >> I was not expecting that answer. That's >> I was not expecting that answer. That's >> I was not expecting that answer. That's a great answer. a great answer. a great answer. >> Thanks. >> Thanks. >> Thanks. >> So, >> So, >> So, last question for you, although I feel last question for you, although I feel last question for you, although I feel like there could be another 179. like there could be another 179. like there could be another 179. >> Traffic, time, all that. We'll wrap up a >> Traffic, time, all that. We'll wrap up a >> Traffic, time, all that. We'll wrap up a little early. Have you back in the little early. Have you back in the little early. Have you back in the future? future? future? um for someone who wants to Okay, I'm um for someone who wants to Okay, I'm um for someone who wants to Okay, I'm going to ask this question. To go from going to ask this question. To go from going to ask this question. To go from you at 21 with a million bullet points, you at 21 with a million bullet points, you at 21 with a million bullet points, you know, running at 100 miles an hour, you know, running at 100 miles an hour, you know, running at 100 miles an hour, very passionate.

very passionate. very passionate. >> It feels like you've had to cut a lot >> It feels like you've had to cut a lot >> It feels like you've had to cut a lot out of your message to make space, out of your message to make space, out of your message to make space, >> to have the time to slow down, to go >> to have the time to slow down, to go >> to have the time to slow down, to go paint the picture, paint the picture, paint the picture, >> to draw people in, to slow down, to >> to draw people in, to slow down, to >> to draw people in, to slow down, to stop, to allow silence. stop, to allow silence. stop, to allow silence. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What's the key to cutting? Because my >> What's the key to cutting? Because my >> What's the key to cutting? Because my fear and I've got a preaching course, fear and I've got a preaching course, fear and I've got a preaching course, okay, but my fear is I always go insane. okay, but my fear is I always go insane. okay, but my fear is I always go insane. I'm not gonna have enough time. I'm not gonna have enough time. I'm not gonna have enough time. >> And yes, >> And yes, >> And yes, >> and and that that haunts all of us, I >> and and that that haunts all of us, I >> and and that that haunts all of us, I think. think. think. >> So when you walk in there with your >> So when you walk in there with your >> So when you walk in there with your sparse notes, not sparse, but you know, sparse notes, not sparse, but you know, sparse notes, not sparse, but you know, prayed over, thought through, but prayed over, thought through, but prayed over, thought through, but there's less than there used to be. there's less than there used to be. there's less than there used to be. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> But you're still able to fill the 35, 42 >> But you're still able to fill the 35, 42 >> But you're still able to fill the 35, 42 minutes, whatever is allotted, minutes, whatever is allotted, minutes, whatever is allotted, >> um, and the countdown clock's running. >> um, and the countdown clock's running. >> um, and the countdown clock's running. >> What is the key to cutting so that >> What is the key to cutting so that >> What is the key to cutting so that there's space? H there's space? H there's space? H for for me. for for me. for for me. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Uh there's an there's sometimes I'll >> Uh there's an there's sometimes I'll >> Uh there's an there's sometimes I'll have content in there have content in there have content in there that I know is there because I want to that I know is there because I want to that I know is there because I want to be impressive.

be impressive. be impressive. >> Do we have to cut that? >> Do we have to cut that? >> Do we have to cut that? >> Yeah. Yeah. Or >> Yeah. Yeah. Or >> Yeah. Yeah. Or >> and if it is impressive and it happens >> and if it is impressive and it happens >> and if it is impressive and it happens to be spiritledd and God has dropped it to be spiritledd and God has dropped it to be spiritledd and God has dropped it and and you know that it's you do that. and and you know that it's you do that. and and you know that it's you do that. But but I think we know when we stick But but I think we know when we stick But but I think we know when we stick something in there that maybe wasn't in something in there that maybe wasn't in something in there that maybe wasn't in the flow of what God convinced us of and the flow of what God convinced us of and the flow of what God convinced us of and showed us by his spirit, which God showed us by his spirit, which God showed us by his spirit, which God hasn't like maybe it's something from 10 hasn't like maybe it's something from 10 hasn't like maybe it's something from 10 years ago that you just kind of drop in years ago that you just kind of drop in years ago that you just kind of drop in there just to feel a little comfortable, there just to feel a little comfortable, there just to feel a little comfortable, you know, like all the stuff we have. you know, like all the stuff we have. you know, like all the stuff we have. >> I know that's going to land. >> I know that's going to land. >> I know that's going to land. >> I actually I have this another thing I >> I actually I have this another thing I >> I actually I have this another thing I have on all of my notes is I have a have on all of my notes is I have a have on all of my notes is I have a second page and it says maybe add and second page and it says maybe add and second page and it says maybe add and it's usually the stuff that I want to it's usually the stuff that I want to it's usually the stuff that I want to add, but I probably want to add it for add, but I probably want to add it for add, but I probably want to add it for the wrong reasons. the wrong reasons. the wrong reasons. >> Oh wow. And so I will, it's funny >> Oh wow. And so I will, it's funny >> Oh wow. And so I will, it's funny because I I have a hard time like because I I have a hard time like because I I have a hard time like deleting it. But what I do is I cut it deleting it. But what I do is I cut it deleting it. But what I do is I cut it and I put it on a different page and and I put it on a different page and and I put it on a different page and that and it's funny at the very end when that and it's funny at the very end when that and it's funny at the very end when I look at it like especially after I'll I look at it like especially after I'll I look at it like especially after I'll deliver a message I'm like that stuff deliver a message I'm like that stuff deliver a message I'm like that stuff was about me. was about me. was about me. >> Oh wow. >> Oh wow. >> Oh wow. >> So that's how I cut. But I also know >> So that's how I cut. But I also know >> So that's how I cut. But I also know myself enough that pressing delete would myself enough that pressing delete would myself enough that pressing delete would make me sad. So I just put it on a and make me sad. So I just put it on a and make me sad. So I just put it on a and if you if you were to print all of my if you if you were to print all of my if you if you were to print all of my notes usually have two pages and the notes usually have two pages and the notes usually have two pages and the second page is full of might add later second page is full of might add later second page is full of might add later that never gets added back because that never gets added back because that never gets added back because thanks be to God and I say that not thanks be to God and I say that not thanks be to God and I say that not tongue and cheek thanks be to God he's tongue and cheek thanks be to God he's tongue and cheek thanks be to God he's teaching me when it's more about me than teaching me when it's more about me than teaching me when it's more about me than about him.

about him. about him. >> Oh man that is a convicting convicting >> Oh man that is a convicting convicting >> Oh man that is a convicting convicting word. So you're an author you're a word. So you're an author you're a word. So you're an author you're a speaker um your books are out speaker um your books are out speaker um your books are out everywhere. If people want to connect everywhere. If people want to connect everywhere. If people want to connect with you, what's the best place to find with you, what's the best place to find with you, what's the best place to find you online these days? you online these days? you online these days? >> Oh, man. On your podcast, apparently. >> Oh, man. On your podcast, apparently. >> Oh, man. On your podcast, apparently. And then um yeah, just search my name, I And then um yeah, just search my name, I And then um yeah, just search my name, I suppose, anywhere. But connecting, I suppose, anywhere. But connecting, I suppose, anywhere. But connecting, I like that word. And I'd say if man, if like that word. And I'd say if man, if like that word. And I'd say if man, if you want to connect, I I'd encourage so you want to connect, I I'd encourage so you want to connect, I I'd encourage so funny. How can you connect with me? I'd funny. How can you connect with me? I'd funny. How can you connect with me? I'd encourage you to go local because encourage you to go local because encourage you to go local because there's a pastor really probably nearby there's a pastor really probably nearby there's a pastor really probably nearby to you. And I if you're looking for me, to you. And I if you're looking for me, to you. And I if you're looking for me, I happen to be at Willow Creek once a I happen to be at Willow Creek once a I happen to be at Willow Creek once a month. I'll be at um Arbor Road Church month. I'll be at um Arbor Road Church month. I'll be at um Arbor Road Church down the street any Sunday that I'm home down the street any Sunday that I'm home down the street any Sunday that I'm home um really present with the people that um really present with the people that um really present with the people that I'm face to face with. But I do love I'm face to face with. But I do love I'm face to face with. But I do love online conversations. Got Instagram, online conversations. Got Instagram, online conversations. Got Instagram, have the website, all the things to make have the website, all the things to make have the website, all the things to make sure that we can get this word, this sure that we can get this word, this sure that we can get this word, this truth out to as many people as possible, truth out to as many people as possible, truth out to as many people as possible, but I'm going to be an encourager as a but I'm going to be an encourager as a but I'm going to be an encourager as a local pastor myself to go local. local pastor myself to go local. local pastor myself to go local. >> Well, we're going to link to all of that >> Well, we're going to link to all of that >> Well, we're going to link to all of that in the show notes. I can't thank you in the show notes. I can't thank you in the show notes. I can't thank you enough. This has been riveting. enough. This has been riveting. enough. This has been riveting. Riveting. Riveting. There's a new word.

Riveting. Riveting. There's a new word. Riveting. Riveting. There's a new word. And a little bit mindbending. And uh And a little bit mindbending. And uh And a little bit mindbending. And uh I've learned a lot from you. I've learned a lot from you. I've learned a lot from you. >> Yeah. Thank you. So thank you.