How to Know When Your Soul is in Danger and Protecting Your Integrity with Rich Villodas

I've never said it this way Carrie this I've never said it this way Carrie this is I think what's at stake is if we is I think what's at stake is if we is I think what's at stake is if we persist in this um the embodied presence persist in this um the embodied presence persist in this um the embodied presence of Jesus in the world of Jesus in the world of Jesus in the world diminishes and what the the the world diminishes and what the the the world diminishes and what the the the world desperately needs is the embodied desperately needs is the embodied desperately needs is the embodied presence of Jesus through Jesus presence of Jesus through Jesus presence of Jesus through Jesus followers to live in this way is not to followers to live in this way is not to followers to live in this way is not to be consistent with Jesus and like I said be consistent with Jesus and like I said be consistent with Jesus and like I said to be you can be a Christian in name or to be you can be a Christian in name or to be you can be a Christian in name or trust in Christ and be not on the Narrow trust in Christ and be not on the Narrow trust in Christ and be not on the Narrow Path what's ultimately at stake is we Path what's ultimately at stake is we Path what's ultimately at stake is we are are are compromising the very essence of what it compromising the very essence of what it compromising the very essence of what it means to be a follower of Jesus and what means to be a follower of Jesus and what means to be a follower of Jesus and what it means to Bear witness to his presence it means to Bear witness to his presence it means to Bear witness to his presence in the world and uh and that has all in the world and uh and that has all in the world and uh and that has all kinds of implications around uh younger kinds of implications around uh younger kinds of implications around uh younger folks who want to come to church or not folks who want to come to church or not folks who want to come to church or not and be followers of Jesus has all kinds and be followers of Jesus has all kinds and be followers of Jesus has all kinds of implications for the ways that uh the of implications for the ways that uh the of implications for the ways that uh the teachings of Christianity especially as teachings of Christianity especially as teachings of Christianity especially as embodied in Jesus are reflected in our embodied in Jesus are reflected in our embodied in Jesus are reflected in our social world um to what degree um are social world um to what degree um are social world um to what degree um are people coming to a saving knowledge of people coming to a saving knowledge of people coming to a saving knowledge of Jesus and having the world impacted Jesus and having the world impacted Jesus and having the world impacted around them I think everything is at around them I think everything is at around them I think everything is at State welcome to the K newoff leadership State welcome to the K newoff leadership State welcome to the K newoff leadership podcast on YouTube I'm so glad you're podcast on YouTube I'm so glad you're podcast on YouTube I'm so glad you're joining us hey if you're new here make joining us hey if you're new here make joining us hey if you're new here make sure you subscribe and today on the sure you subscribe and today on the sure you subscribe and today on the podcast we've got rich votus we're going podcast we've got rich votus we're going podcast we've got rich votus we're going to talk about a lot of things including to talk about a lot of things including to talk about a lot of things including how to know when your soul is in danger how to know when your soul is in danger how to know when your soul is in danger and today's episode is brought to you by and today's episode is brought to you by and today's episode is brought to you by Glue plus do you know that glue plus is Glue plus do you know that glue plus is Glue plus do you know that glue plus is your new all-in-one solution it's going your new all-in-one solution it's going your new all-in-one solution it's going to revolutionize your ministry you get

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uh and so social media also is very uh and so social media also is very communal and that it creates an communal and that it creates an communal and that it creates an environment where speaking up against environment where speaking up against environment where speaking up against wrongdoing can be done in a way that wrongdoing can be done in a way that wrongdoing can be done in a way that Garners support from others you feel Garners support from others you feel Garners support from others you feel like you're not alone in this year and like you're not alone in this year and like you're not alone in this year and so um so I think that's one thing I also so um so I think that's one thing I also so um so I think that's one thing I also think that there have been significant think that there have been significant think that there have been significant shifts in culture uh related to what is shifts in culture uh related to what is shifts in culture uh related to what is permissible and what is to be rejected permissible and what is to be rejected permissible and what is to be rejected altogether and so misogyny for example altogether and so misogyny for example altogether and so misogyny for example more was probably accepted in previous more was probably accepted in previous more was probably accepted in previous generations that's not accepted today or generations that's not accepted today or generations that's not accepted today or racism or kind of stereotyping others uh racism or kind of stereotyping others uh racism or kind of stereotyping others uh particular brands of of that kind of particular brands of of that kind of particular brands of of that kind of behavior was accepted in one generation behavior was accepted in one generation behavior was accepted in one generation and has changed in another and so it and has changed in another and so it and has changed in another and so it seems that when you combine um cultural seems that when you combine um cultural seems that when you combine um cultural shifts as it relates to social ethics shifts as it relates to social ethics shifts as it relates to social ethics and new social norms plus the access and new social norms plus the access and new social norms plus the access people have to bring awareness to the people have to bring awareness to the people have to bring awareness to the lack of moral Integrity what we find is lack of moral Integrity what we find is lack of moral Integrity what we find is uh more news around moral failure and so uh more news around moral failure and so uh more news around moral failure and so is it getting worse I I I don't know I is it getting worse I I I don't know I is it getting worse I I I don't know I do know that failure lack of Integrity do know that failure lack of Integrity do know that failure lack of Integrity sin has been part of the human condition sin has been part of the human condition sin has been part of the human condition since the very beginning uh and so I since the very beginning uh and so I since the very beginning uh and so I think this is a human problem not a think this is a human problem not a think this is a human problem not a generational problem uh but I do think generational problem uh but I do think generational problem uh but I do think because of the changes in culture we're because of the changes in culture we're because of the changes in culture we're probably hearing more news about it yeah probably hearing more news about it yeah probably hearing more news about it yeah and so I think you know for a lot of and so I think you know for a lot of and so I think you know for a lot of leaders you know it means we want to leaders you know it means we want to leaders you know it means we want to make sure we don't become one of those make sure we don't become one of those make sure we don't become one of those headlines right like I I don't have any headlines right like I I don't have any headlines right like I I don't have any desire first of all I don't have any desire first of all I don't have any desire first of all I don't have any desire to hurt people I don't have any

desire to hurt people I don't have any desire to hurt people I don't have any desire to betray people or do things desire to betray people or do things desire to betray people or do things that uh you know would bring my that uh you know would bring my that uh you know would bring my leadership into question so I guess a leadership into question so I guess a leadership into question so I guess a personal question for you is I have personal question for you is I have personal question for you is I have personal habits rhythms and disciplines personal habits rhythms and disciplines personal habits rhythms and disciplines that I try to follow to make sure that I that I try to follow to make sure that I that I try to follow to make sure that I you know stay on the path that I feel you know stay on the path that I feel you know stay on the path that I feel like I'm called to stay on what are your like I'm called to stay on what are your like I'm called to stay on what are your personal habits rhythms or disciplines personal habits rhythms or disciplines personal habits rhythms or disciplines are you embracing that protect or help are you embracing that protect or help are you embracing that protect or help grow your integrity yeah I feel the same um I don't think yeah I feel the same um I don't think anyone wakes up in the morning saying I anyone wakes up in the morning saying I anyone wakes up in the morning saying I want to hurt people harm people destroy want to hurt people harm people destroy want to hurt people harm people destroy my family hurt the Christian Movement um my family hurt the Christian Movement um my family hurt the Christian Movement um and so I mean I would like to believe and so I mean I would like to believe and so I mean I would like to believe that um my my personal Integrity emerges that um my my personal Integrity emerges that um my my personal Integrity emerges from a theological from a theological from a theological conviction uh that I am just as conviction uh that I am just as conviction uh that I am just as susceptible to living without Integrity susceptible to living without Integrity susceptible to living without Integrity uh as the next person m might not be one uh as the next person m might not be one uh as the next person m might not be one step away from it but I'm a series of step away from it but I'm a series of step away from it but I'm a series of steps away often Insidious steps away steps away often Insidious steps away steps away often Insidious steps away from um not living with integrity and so from um not living with integrity and so from um not living with integrity and so I I try to hold that inside you know my I I try to hold that inside you know my I I try to hold that inside you know my my predecessor many of you know uh Pete my predecessor many of you know uh Pete my predecessor many of you know uh Pete kazero I mean he once told me as I was kazero I mean he once told me as I was kazero I mean he once told me as I was beginning to write on um write books the beginning to write on um write books the beginning to write on um write books the first conversation he had with me about first conversation he had with me about first conversation he had with me about uh I asked him for some tips about uh I asked him for some tips about uh I asked him for some tips about publishing and the first thing he said publishing and the first thing he said publishing and the first thing he said was now that you're entering into the was now that you're entering into the was now that you're entering into the world of publishing I want to let you world of publishing I want to let you world of publishing I want to let you know your soul is in danger like never know your soul is in danger like never know your soul is in danger like never before and I'm think I'm thinking that's before and I'm think I'm thinking that's before and I'm think I'm thinking that's not the kind of advice was hoping for not the kind of advice was hoping for not the kind of advice was hoping for Pete you know uh and so I have been he Pete you know uh and so I have been he Pete you know uh and so I have been he he kind of put the fear of God in Me

he kind of put the fear of God in Me he kind of put the fear of God in Me like you're going to now enter into new like you're going to now enter into new like you're going to now enter into new spaces of Temptation and Challenge and spaces of Temptation and Challenge and spaces of Temptation and Challenge and um things that are going to potentially um things that are going to potentially um things that are going to potentially draw you away from your Center and so I draw you away from your Center and so I draw you away from your Center and so I I live I think what are my habits I I live I think what are my habits I I live I think what are my habits I think I try to live with a habit that uh think I try to live with a habit that uh think I try to live with a habit that uh my soul is in danger on a regular basis my soul is in danger on a regular basis my soul is in danger on a regular basis uh in terms of practical habits Beyond uh in terms of practical habits Beyond uh in terms of practical habits Beyond just that kind of you know theological just that kind of you know theological just that kind of you know theological sense in my soul that I hold sense in my soul that I hold sense in my soul that I hold I think I can name a few and so for me I think I can name a few and so for me I think I can name a few and so for me um cultivating a healthy connection um cultivating a healthy connection um cultivating a healthy connection first of all with Rosie my wife is first of all with Rosie my wife is first of all with Rosie my wife is really important I just think from a really important I just think from a really important I just think from a from a leader who has happens to be from a leader who has happens to be from a leader who has happens to be married I know lots of leaders are not married I know lots of leaders are not married I know lots of leaders are not married but for those who are married um married but for those who are married um married but for those who are married um cultivating healthy connection with cultivating healthy connection with cultivating healthy connection with Rosie is really important so naming my Rosie is really important so naming my Rosie is really important so naming my hopes my preferences uh maintaining hopes my preferences uh maintaining hopes my preferences uh maintaining clear expectations with each other I clear expectations with each other I clear expectations with each other I mean Rosie and I have a monthly meeting mean Rosie and I have a monthly meeting mean Rosie and I have a monthly meeting on regarding our calendar and Fin an es on regarding our calendar and Fin an es on regarding our calendar and Fin an es that um it's the two hardest meetings of that um it's the two hardest meetings of that um it's the two hardest meetings of the month for us uh but we try to live the month for us uh but we try to live the month for us uh but we try to live with Integrity with one another in terms with Integrity with one another in terms with Integrity with one another in terms of our values in terms of what's of our values in terms of what's of our values in terms of what's important to us and so me connecting important to us and so me connecting important to us and so me connecting with Rosie I think on a regular basis is with Rosie I think on a regular basis is with Rosie I think on a regular basis is really important I also have uh three really important I also have uh three really important I also have uh three Pastor friends that I've been meeting Pastor friends that I've been meeting Pastor friends that I've been meeting with for six year almost seven years now with for six year almost seven years now with for six year almost seven years now monthly uh for 90 minutes uh and in that monthly uh for 90 minutes uh and in that monthly uh for 90 minutes uh and in that space um we are talking about um you space um we are talking about um you space um we are talking about um you know how's our soul how's our know how's our soul how's our know how's our soul how's our relationships you know um what are we relationships you know um what are we relationships you know um what are we learning uh what do we need feedback on learning uh what do we need feedback on learning uh what do we need feedback on where do we find ourselves stuck and where do we find ourselves stuck and where do we find ourselves stuck and having a monthly rhythm of that and then

having a monthly rhythm of that and then having a monthly rhythm of that and then an annual Retreat actually my retreat is an annual Retreat actually my retreat is an annual Retreat actually my retreat is set up pretty soon actually next week set up pretty soon actually next week set up pretty soon actually next week I'll be going on a retreat at the time I'll be going on a retreat at the time I'll be going on a retreat at the time of this recording um uh to spend you of this recording um uh to spend you of this recording um uh to spend you know a few days with these guys um know a few days with these guys um know a few days with these guys um healthy board healthy board healthy board culture um as I think important to culture um as I think important to culture um as I think important to protect I need a lot of relationships protect I need a lot of relationships protect I need a lot of relationships around car to help protect my Integrity around car to help protect my Integrity around car to help protect my Integrity is not I'm not on an island and so is not I'm not on an island and so is not I'm not on an island and so whether it's friends my marriage a whether it's friends my marriage a whether it's friends my marriage a healthy Bo culture seasons of therapy healthy Bo culture seasons of therapy healthy Bo culture seasons of therapy that I receive uh and then I lastly I that I receive uh and then I lastly I that I receive uh and then I lastly I just say um I think we've tried to honor just say um I think we've tried to honor just say um I think we've tried to honor just a a healthy Rhythm um a weekly just a a healthy Rhythm um a weekly just a a healthy Rhythm um a weekly Sabbath it's interesting in Jewish in Sabbath it's interesting in Jewish in Sabbath it's interesting in Jewish in the Jewish tradition they would say um the Jewish tradition they would say um the Jewish tradition they would say um that the fourth Commandment you shall that the fourth Commandment you shall that the fourth Commandment you shall remember the Sabbath is the most remember the Sabbath is the most remember the Sabbath is the most important because uh lots of things get important because uh lots of things get important because uh lots of things get violated when we're tired and uh we are violated when we're tired and uh we are violated when we're tired and uh we are far more vulnerable when we're tired um far more vulnerable when we're tired um far more vulnerable when we're tired um to maybe murder somebody or have a lack to maybe murder somebody or have a lack to maybe murder somebody or have a lack of um you know Fidelity in a particular of um you know Fidelity in a particular of um you know Fidelity in a particular area of Our Lives or we might uh uh lie area of Our Lives or we might uh uh lie area of Our Lives or we might uh uh lie or or cheat or whatever it might be when or or cheat or whatever it might be when or or cheat or whatever it might be when we're really tired and so I think those we're really tired and so I think those we're really tired and so I think those are some of the ways that I've tried to are some of the ways that I've tried to are some of the ways that I've tried to rhythms and relationships around me uh rhythms and relationships around me uh rhythms and relationships around me uh to protect my Integrity by the grace of to protect my Integrity by the grace of to protect my Integrity by the grace of God there's a few follow-ups I'd love to God there's a few follow-ups I'd love to God there's a few follow-ups I'd love to uh take on that so you have entered the uh take on that so you have entered the uh take on that so you have entered the world of publishing we'll be talking world of publishing we'll be talking world of publishing we'll be talking about your new book in a little bit about your new book in a little bit about your new book in a little bit how have you guarded your soul I mean how have you guarded your soul I mean how have you guarded your soul I mean you know the public rankings how your you know the public rankings how your you know the public rankings how your book is doing on Amazon reviews social

book is doing on Amazon reviews social book is doing on Amazon reviews social media feedback as you already pointed media feedback as you already pointed media feedback as you already pointed out we live in an age where everybody's out we live in an age where everybody's out we live in an age where everybody's got an opinion whether it's well formed got an opinion whether it's well formed got an opinion whether it's well formed or not and they're happy to share it um or not and they're happy to share it um or not and they're happy to share it um so easy to get caught up in the numbers so easy to get caught up in the numbers so easy to get caught up in the numbers game you're a podcaster as well so what game you're a podcaster as well so what game you're a podcaster as well so what what what steps like you know Pete's what what steps like you know Pete's what what steps like you know Pete's prophetic words to you what um what are prophetic words to you what um what are prophetic words to you what um what are you doing to make sure that your soul you doing to make sure that your soul you doing to make sure that your soul stays healthy when you're on a public stays healthy when you're on a public stays healthy when you're on a public stage like stage like stage like that well I I have to say I think I have that well I I have to say I think I have that well I I have to say I think I have I think first of all naming the reality I think first of all naming the reality I think first of all naming the reality that The Temptations that are before me that The Temptations that are before me that The Temptations that are before me are very real uh when I first R A deeply are very real uh when I first R A deeply are very real uh when I first R A deeply formed life I went back to a journal formed life I went back to a journal formed life I went back to a journal entry um it was September 19th uh I'm entry um it was September 19th uh I'm entry um it was September 19th uh I'm sorry September 14th 2020 one day before sorry September 14th 2020 one day before sorry September 14th 2020 one day before the deeply formed life was going to be the deeply formed life was going to be the deeply formed life was going to be published and uh go out publicly and I published and uh go out publicly and I published and uh go out publicly and I wrot wrot in my journal Lord um if you wrot wrot in my journal Lord um if you wrot wrot in my journal Lord um if you want this book to bless many many want this book to bless many many want this book to bless many many thousands uh may I be open to that and thousands uh may I be open to that and thousands uh may I be open to that and if this book is just going to bless a if this book is just going to bless a if this book is just going to bless a couple of thousand uh or a couple of couple of thousand uh or a couple of couple of thousand uh or a couple of hundred may you may you be pleased with hundred may you may you be pleased with hundred may you may you be pleased with that and may may I be content with that that and may may I be content with that that and may may I be content with that and then the next day I'm looking at my and then the next day I'm looking at my and then the next day I'm looking at my Amazon rankings like how am I doing am I Amazon rankings like how am I doing am I Amazon rankings like how am I doing am I doing all right doing all right doing all right here yeah you know refreshing you know here yeah you know refreshing you know here yeah you know refreshing you know every 30 minutes to see am I climbing every 30 minutes to see am I climbing every 30 minutes to see am I climbing here what's this algorithm about and and here what's this algorithm about and and here what's this algorithm about and and uh and every time a book has come out uh and every time a book has come out uh and every time a book has come out that's in me like the Temptation I so so that's in me like the Temptation I so so that's in me like the Temptation I so so I do know I think there's a that's a I do know I think there's a that's a I do know I think there's a that's a very natural normal way of I I want to very natural normal way of I I want to very natural normal way of I I want to do well I think the problem becomes when

do well I think the problem becomes when do well I think the problem becomes when I I can't step away from that whatsoever I I can't step away from that whatsoever I I can't step away from that whatsoever yeah uh when my when my entire identity yeah uh when my when my entire identity yeah uh when my when my entire identity is now built upon um how I'm doing uh is now built upon um how I'm doing uh is now built upon um how I'm doing uh sales uh numbers metrics and um and I've sales uh numbers metrics and um and I've sales uh numbers metrics and um and I've experienced this as a pastor yeah um you experienced this as a pastor yeah um you experienced this as a pastor yeah um you know's chur you Church attendance so it know's chur you Church attendance so it know's chur you Church attendance so it it took it took me from a pastoral it took it took me from a pastoral it took it took me from a pastoral perspective in terms of attendance after perspective in terms of attendance after perspective in terms of attendance after I got I got to New Life in 2008 as in a I got I got to New Life in 2008 as in a I got I got to New Life in 2008 as in a small groups Pastor when I became the small groups Pastor when I became the small groups Pastor when I became the lead Pastor in 2013 it took me about lead Pastor in 2013 it took me about lead Pastor in 2013 it took me about three years after becoming the lead three years after becoming the lead three years after becoming the lead Pastor to stop focusing on attendance or Pastor to stop focusing on attendance or Pastor to stop focusing on attendance or at least who's coming how come people at least who's coming how come people at least who's coming how come people are not coming earlier uh why isn't the are not coming earlier uh why isn't the are not coming earlier uh why isn't the building more filled by this time here building more filled by this time here building more filled by this time here it took me about three years of it took me about three years of it took me about three years of wrestling with my own shame and all of wrestling with my own shame and all of wrestling with my own shame and all of that stuff there so I think part of it that stuff there so I think part of it that stuff there so I think part of it is um I have tried to have relationships is um I have tried to have relationships is um I have tried to have relationships around me friends uh professional help around me friends uh professional help around me friends uh professional help to help me navigate this on a regular to help me navigate this on a regular to help me navigate this on a regular basis and um I'm not sure if there's any basis and um I'm not sure if there's any basis and um I'm not sure if there's any other way around it yeah because you other way around it yeah because you other way around it yeah because you know if you're driven enough to write a know if you're driven enough to write a know if you're driven enough to write a book if you're driven enough to get up book if you're driven enough to get up book if you're driven enough to get up there and and write a sermon and you there and and write a sermon and you there and and write a sermon and you feel called to it nobody wants to do feel called to it nobody wants to do feel called to it nobody wants to do that really let's be honest for an that really let's be honest for an that really let's be honest for an audience of one we'd rather have an audience of one we'd rather have an audience of one we'd rather have an audience of two or 2,000 or 2 million or audience of two or 2,000 or 2 million or audience of two or 2,000 or 2 million or whatever um and I wonder if it is in the whatever um and I wonder if it is in the whatever um and I wonder if it is in the words of Andy Stanley attention to be words of Andy Stanley attention to be words of Andy Stanley attention to be managed not a problem to be solved right managed not a problem to be solved right managed not a problem to be solved right awareness is half the battle I think you awareness is half the battle I think you awareness is half the battle I think you I don't know that there's an answer to I don't know that there's an answer to I don't know that there's an answer to this question but I think I I might like this question but I think I I might like this question but I think I I might like to ask it anyway um you mentioned if it

to ask it anyway um you mentioned if it to ask it anyway um you mentioned if it becomes becomes becomes obsessive and I definitely have had obsessive and I definitely have had obsessive and I definitely have had Seasons where it's been obsessive for me Seasons where it's been obsessive for me Seasons where it's been obsessive for me to track the to track the to track the numbers what for you makes it obsessive numbers what for you makes it obsessive numbers what for you makes it obsessive are there are there are there indicators is there a line you cross indicators is there a line you cross indicators is there a line you cross where you're like all right now this is where you're like all right now this is where you're like all right now this is is n healthy anymore I think part of it the the Hope anymore I think part of it the the Hope in this and this is back to the in this and this is back to the in this and this is back to the Integrity piece Carrie I mean My My Hope Integrity piece Carrie I mean My My Hope Integrity piece Carrie I mean My My Hope Is that I'm paying attention to my own Is that I'm paying attention to my own Is that I'm paying attention to my own soul and lifting that up to God um in soul and lifting that up to God um in soul and lifting that up to God um in many ways I know what I'm crossing the many ways I know what I'm crossing the many ways I know what I'm crossing the line I know when uh my I'm refreshing my line I know when uh my I'm refreshing my line I know when uh my I'm refreshing my phone to such a degree that I I realize phone to such a degree that I I realize phone to such a degree that I I realize this is I'm not in a good place right this is I'm not in a good place right this is I'm not in a good place right now because um in addition to that now because um in addition to that now because um in addition to that marking my own jelly marking my own jelly marking my own jelly y um my when when others are doing my y um my when when others are doing my y um my when when others are doing my inability to um you know platform people inability to um you know platform people inability to um you know platform people um showcase others because of a fear of um showcase others because of a fear of um showcase others because of a fear of kind of like a zero sum game if I kind of like a zero sum game if I kind of like a zero sum game if I platform and Shout Out somebody here platform and Shout Out somebody here platform and Shout Out somebody here that's going to take away from me and that's going to take away from me and that's going to take away from me and the all the ways that I tend to be the all the ways that I tend to be the all the ways that I tend to be jealous and stingy with that that stuff jealous and stingy with that that stuff jealous and stingy with that that stuff lives inside of me and so I think I have lives inside of me and so I think I have lives inside of me and so I think I have to contend with my own sense of to contend with my own sense of to contend with my own sense of inadequacy my own jealousy see my own inadequacy my own jealousy see my own inadequacy my own jealousy see my own identity and that's something that I identity and that's something that I identity and that's something that I think this is like a almost a daily think this is like a almost a daily think this is like a almost a daily crucifixion that I'm bringing to God um crucifixion that I'm bringing to God um crucifixion that I'm bringing to God um so again I'm not sure if I have I don't so again I'm not sure if I have I don't so again I'm not sure if I have I don't I'm not I'm not sure if I've ever gotten I'm not I'm not sure if I've ever gotten I'm not I'm not sure if I've ever gotten to a place where I'm like wo okay it to a place where I'm like wo okay it to a place where I'm like wo okay it feels so good to be free from that

feels so good to be free from that feels so good to be free from that wasn't that a great struggle 10 years wasn't that a great struggle 10 years wasn't that a great struggle 10 years ago and U you know how when folks some ago and U you know how when folks some ago and U you know how when folks some some pastors give testimonies is always some pastors give testimonies is always some pastors give testimonies is always like something that happened 10 years like something that happened 10 years like something that happened 10 years ago that that they never uh had to ago that that they never uh had to ago that that they never uh had to battle with again I'm like no this is a battle with again I'm like no this is a battle with again I'm like no this is a daily reality for me uh in the spaces daily reality for me uh in the spaces daily reality for me uh in the spaces that I inhabit well that's an honest that I inhabit well that's an honest that I inhabit well that's an honest confession and one that is shared I'm confession and one that is shared I'm confession and one that is shared I'm sure by many people listening and myself sure by many people listening and myself sure by many people listening and myself I I'm always questioning my motives I I'm always questioning my motives I I'm always questioning my motives because unchecked they go in the wrong because unchecked they go in the wrong because unchecked they go in the wrong direction Rich they just do they just direction Rich they just do they just direction Rich they just do they just naturally I do not naturally gravitate naturally I do not naturally gravitate naturally I do not naturally gravitate toward health I just don't um want to toward health I just don't um want to toward health I just don't um want to talk a little bit about your meeting talk a little bit about your meeting talk a little bit about your meeting with Rosie I think first of all with Rosie I think first of all with Rosie I think first of all congratulations for you to do a monthly congratulations for you to do a monthly congratulations for you to do a monthly calendar and budgeting meeting that's calendar and budgeting meeting that's calendar and budgeting meeting that's better than many couples and I think of better than many couples and I think of better than many couples and I think of the reasons it doesn't happen a lot of the reasons it doesn't happen a lot of the reasons it doesn't happen a lot of the time is because those tend not to be the time is because those tend not to be the time is because those tend not to be positive meetings you you you said it positive meetings you you you said it positive meetings you you you said it sometimes the most stressful meeting of sometimes the most stressful meeting of sometimes the most stressful meeting of the month um can you tell us give us a the month um can you tell us give us a the month um can you tell us give us a little window into that like why are you little window into that like why are you little window into that like why are you doing them and then uh what's that doing them and then uh what's that doing them and then uh what's that Dynamic like and any tips for those of Dynamic like and any tips for those of Dynamic like and any tips for those of us who probably should be doing that a us who probably should be doing that a us who probably should be doing that a little more little more little more often well the calendar meeting in often well the calendar meeting in often well the calendar meeting in particular emerges out of lots of particular emerges out of lots of particular emerges out of lots of frustration and um and missing missing frustration and um and missing missing frustration and um and missing missing values that Rosie has and I have and so values that Rosie has and I have and so values that Rosie has and I have and so um Rosie values that we have um uh um Rosie values that we have um uh um Rosie values that we have um uh planned family time planned vacation planned family time planned vacation planned family time planned vacation time that we we have well planned time that we we have well planned time that we we have well planned vacations in a given year now I grew up

vacations in a given year now I grew up vacations in a given year now I grew up in a family that didn't take many in a family that didn't take many in a family that didn't take many vacations and so for me um that's like vacations and so for me um that's like vacations and so for me um that's like why do we need to go on another vacation why do we need to go on another vacation why do we need to go on another vacation uh for Rosie she grew up with a rhythm uh for Rosie she grew up with a rhythm uh for Rosie she grew up with a rhythm of vacations that's important to her and of vacations that's important to her and of vacations that's important to her and so I think um that's number one number so I think um that's number one number so I think um that's number one number two too I think us not meeting and two too I think us not meeting and two too I think us not meeting and getting on the same page in terms of how getting on the same page in terms of how getting on the same page in terms of how our time was going to be budgeted in a our time was going to be budgeted in a our time was going to be budgeted in a given week or a given month uh just led given week or a given month uh just led given week or a given month uh just led to lots of surprise meetings hey oh to lots of surprise meetings hey oh to lots of surprise meetings hey oh honey by the way tomorrow I have a honey by the way tomorrow I have a honey by the way tomorrow I have a meeting with uh the board or tomorrow meeting with uh the board or tomorrow meeting with uh the board or tomorrow have a meeting with this person and have a meeting with this person and have a meeting with this person and she's like you know one day notice is is she's like you know one day notice is is she's like you know one day notice is is not really doing it and so I think we not really doing it and so I think we not really doing it and so I think we saw so much tension in our own saw so much tension in our own saw so much tension in our own communication and marriage that we communication and marriage that we communication and marriage that we realized we better think the way down realized we better think the way down realized we better think the way down the line here um for the sake of our own the line here um for the sake of our own the line here um for the sake of our own life together and so that's what it life together and so that's what it life together and so that's what it emerged out of it emerged out of our own emerged out of it emerged out of our own emerged out of it emerged out of our own frustration and US missing each other um frustration and US missing each other um frustration and US missing each other um in terms of what we do I mean so I mean in terms of what we do I mean so I mean in terms of what we do I mean so I mean we take the Long View I mean we're we take the Long View I mean we're we take the Long View I mean we're looking at Big Picture a given year so looking at Big Picture a given year so looking at Big Picture a given year so we'll plan out a given year in terms of we'll plan out a given year in terms of we'll plan out a given year in terms of my you know my speaking engagements are my you know my speaking engagements are my you know my speaking engagements are usually a year out um so I I say yes to usually a year out um so I I say yes to usually a year out um so I I say yes to about 12 to 15 engagements a year about 12 to 15 engagements a year about 12 to 15 engagements a year they're usually a year out and so we they're usually a year out and so we they're usually a year out and so we know what we're doing there uh we have a know what we're doing there uh we have a know what we're doing there uh we have a sense as to holiday rhythms and school sense as to holiday rhythms and school sense as to holiday rhythms and school rhythms so we're putting in where do we rhythms so we're putting in where do we rhythms so we're putting in where do we want to spend time with our with as a want to spend time with our with as a want to spend time with our with as a family together intentionally so we family together intentionally so we family together intentionally so we build that one year so that one meeting build that one year so that one meeting build that one year so that one meeting happens probably annual or twice a year happens probably annual or twice a year happens probably annual or twice a year and then on a monthly basis what we're and then on a monthly basis what we're and then on a monthly basis what we're looking at is every week for that month looking at is every week for that month looking at is every week for that month yeah uh and then and then we have a

yeah uh and then and then we have a yeah uh and then and then we have a weekly meeting on very check short check weekly meeting on very check short check weekly meeting on very check short check in on Sundays where uh I actually fill in on Sundays where uh I actually fill in on Sundays where uh I actually fill out a a chart that we have in and pencil out a a chart that we have in and pencil out a a chart that we have in and pencil that we post by the that we post by the that we post by the refrigerator so that we're all super CLE refrigerator so that we're all super CLE refrigerator so that we're all super CLE CLE in terms of uh what we can expect CLE in terms of uh what we can expect CLE in terms of uh what we can expect for uh that given week and um it's for uh that given week and um it's for uh that given week and um it's painful car I mean on my end it's like painful car I mean on my end it's like painful car I mean on my end it's like painful it's like H it's like a uh I painful it's like H it's like a uh I painful it's like H it's like a uh I want my life to be about me and whatever want my life to be about me and whatever want my life to be about me and whatever I want to do I want to but I realize uh I want to do I want to but I realize uh I want to do I want to but I realize uh to be to be married is to have a to be to be married is to have a to be to be married is to have a different kind of spirituality than uh different kind of spirituality than uh different kind of spirituality than uh than a single person in that way and so than a single person in that way and so than a single person in that way and so I am married this is my first calling um I am married this is my first calling um I am married this is my first calling um but I think that has led to a lot more but I think that has led to a lot more but I think that has led to a lot more joy and peace and shared expectations in joy and peace and shared expectations in joy and peace and shared expectations in our home how do you handle the financial our home how do you handle the financial our home how do you handle the financial meeting I mean Dave Ramsey has a lot of meeting I mean Dave Ramsey has a lot of meeting I mean Dave Ramsey has a lot of advice so do others but what are other advice so do others but what are other advice so do others but what are other any great practices that you and Rosie any great practices that you and Rosie any great practices that you and Rosie have that you could recommend to others have that you could recommend to others have that you could recommend to others or things to avoid yeah um well or things to avoid yeah um well or things to avoid yeah um well generally um and I've talked about this generally um and I've talked about this generally um and I've talked about this before I mean Rosie and I early in our before I mean Rosie and I early in our before I mean Rosie and I early in our marriage um and I've preached about this marriage um and I've preached about this marriage um and I've preached about this um you know we made some really bad um you know we made some really bad um you know we made some really bad decisions as a young couple and got into decisions as a young couple and got into decisions as a young couple and got into some significant debt and um really had some significant debt and um really had some significant debt and um really had to reorder our lives in some really to reorder our lives in some really to reorder our lives in some really significant ways in order to dig out of significant ways in order to dig out of significant ways in order to dig out of the hole and find ourselves in a better the hole and find ourselves in a better the hole and find ourselves in a better place um in terms of what looks like in place um in terms of what looks like in place um in terms of what looks like in a I mean we're so in our home we'll have a I mean we're so in our home we'll have a I mean we're so in our home we'll have we we have all these flip charts so we we we have all these flip charts so we we we have all these flip charts so we are flip chart family here uh and we'll

are flip chart family here uh and we'll are flip chart family here uh and we'll we'll put out these flip charts and we'll put out these flip charts and we'll put out these flip charts and we're naming our hopes our priorities we're naming our hopes our priorities we're naming our hopes our priorities our Necessities so we have it all listed our Necessities so we have it all listed our Necessities so we have it all listed out here what are we hoping to do what out here what are we hoping to do what out here what are we hoping to do what must we prioritize what we can't say no must we prioritize what we can't say no must we prioritize what we can't say no to and so number one we're just getting to and so number one we're just getting to and so number one we're just getting a big picture perspective on what are a big picture perspective on what are a big picture perspective on what are the financial implications for a given the financial implications for a given the financial implications for a given year or given quarter or a given month year or given quarter or a given month year or given quarter or a given month uh and then in our monthly meeting we're uh and then in our monthly meeting we're uh and then in our monthly meeting we're we're just big picture Rosie is the one we're just big picture Rosie is the one we're just big picture Rosie is the one who's doing the kind of the day-to-day who's doing the kind of the day-to-day who's doing the kind of the day-to-day week to week finances in our home um but week to week finances in our home um but week to week finances in our home um but I'm brought in because again there were I'm brought in because again there were I'm brought in because again there were plenty of times where a financial plenty of times where a financial plenty of times where a financial decision's made and because I wasn't decision's made and because I wasn't decision's made and because I wasn't involved I come back and go hey why do involved I come back and go hey why do involved I come back and go hey why do we do this or how come we can't do that we do this or how come we can't do that we do this or how come we can't do that and she's saying well we haven't been on and she's saying well we haven't been on and she's saying well we haven't been on the same page having conversation around the same page having conversation around the same page having conversation around this and then she feels judged by me this and then she feels judged by me this and then she feels judged by me because I'm asking questions about because I'm asking questions about because I'm asking questions about something that I'm not involving myself something that I'm not involving myself something that I'm not involving myself in whatsoever and so we realize for the in whatsoever and so we realize for the in whatsoever and so we realize for the sake of our health of our marriage uh we sake of our health of our marriage uh we sake of our health of our marriage uh we need to meet and so uh we're looking at need to meet and so uh we're looking at need to meet and so uh we're looking at cash flow we're looking at priorities cash flow we're looking at priorities cash flow we're looking at priorities birthdays uh hosting we were doing birthdays uh hosting we were doing birthdays uh hosting we were doing hosting uh you know people having over hosting uh you know people having over hosting uh you know people having over our home so it's we're getting in the our home so it's we're getting in the our home so it's we're getting in the nitty-gritty of that and we're doing nitty-gritty of that and we're doing nitty-gritty of that and we're doing that once a month for about hour hour that once a month for about hour hour that once a month for about hour hour and a half and um woo there are times and a half and um woo there are times and a half and um woo there are times where it's joy and most of the time it's where it's joy and most of the time it's where it's joy and most of the time it's pain because we're talking about we're pain because we're talking about we're pain because we're talking about we're not just talking about money we're not just talking about money we're not just talking about money we're talking about values we're talking about talking about values we're talking about talking about values we're talking about things that and and there are many times things that and and there are many times things that and and there are many times where what I value is not what she where what I value is not what she where what I value is not what she values and vice versa and so how do we values and vice versa and so how do we values and vice versa and so how do we come to a place of compromise and come to a place of compromise and come to a place of compromise and negotiating our differences well that's

negotiating our differences well that's negotiating our differences well that's the hard stuff and um um but I'm so glad the hard stuff and um um but I'm so glad the hard stuff and um um but I'm so glad that we're doing it's really helped our that we're doing it's really helped our that we're doing it's really helped our our relationship sounds like most our relationship sounds like most our relationship sounds like most marriages to be really does yeah it does marriages to be really does yeah it does marriages to be really does yeah it does and marriage is a different spirituality and marriage is a different spirituality and marriage is a different spirituality that's a very good framing of it uh you that's a very good framing of it uh you that's a very good framing of it uh you mentioned healthy board relationship so mentioned healthy board relationship so mentioned healthy board relationship so on the one hand you have a board that's on the one hand you have a board that's on the one hand you have a board that's just got your friends on it who let just got your friends on it who let just got your friends on it who let whatever happened happen on the other whatever happened happen on the other whatever happened happen on the other hand you've got a board that's hand you've got a board that's hand you've got a board that's micromanaging you and there's no trust micromanaging you and there's no trust micromanaging you and there's no trust and you can't get anything done what do and you can't get anything done what do and you can't get anything done what do healthy board relationships and Dynamics healthy board relationships and Dynamics healthy board relationships and Dynamics look like for you look like for you look like for you rich you know um rich you know um rich you know um we in in the last uh five six years I we in in the last uh five six years I we in in the last uh five six years I think we hit something on our board in think we hit something on our board in think we hit something on our board in terms of some important principles about terms of some important principles about terms of some important principles about a really healthy cult culture now I a really healthy cult culture now I a really healthy cult culture now I think for new life's history for 37 think for new life's history for 37 think for new life's history for 37 years um I think we've had really strong years um I think we've had really strong years um I think we've had really strong boards uh I think we've had healthy boards uh I think we've had healthy boards uh I think we've had healthy boards um but I think something happened boards um but I think something happened boards um but I think something happened in the last five years in terms of in my in the last five years in terms of in my in the last five years in terms of in my tenure um you know me stepping in my the tenure um you know me stepping in my the tenure um you know me stepping in my the founding pastor and the board is going founding pastor and the board is going founding pastor and the board is going to have a different relationship ship to to have a different relationship ship to to have a different relationship ship to the than the person who succeeds the the than the person who succeeds the the than the person who succeeds the founding pastor and then is related to founding pastor and then is related to founding pastor and then is related to the board and so my Dynamics with the the board and so my Dynamics with the the board and so my Dynamics with the board is different from Pete's Dynamics board is different from Pete's Dynamics board is different from Pete's Dynamics with the board right um so a couple with the board right um so a couple with the board right um so a couple things that we discovered along the way things that we discovered along the way things that we discovered along the way number one it's so that the the number one it's so that the the number one it's so that the the relationship I have to each board member relationship I have to each board member relationship I have to each board member is critically important so prioritizing is critically important so prioritizing is critically important so prioritizing connection oneon-one is really important

connection oneon-one is really important connection oneon-one is really important and so on a monthly basis I check in I and so on a monthly basis I check in I and so on a monthly basis I check in I have a one hour to 90 minute have a one hour to 90 minute have a one hour to 90 minute conversation with one board member uh conversation with one board member uh conversation with one board member uh one time a month and um and the goal of one time a month and um and the goal of one time a month and um and the goal of that is twofold number one just checking that is twofold number one just checking that is twofold number one just checking in relationally but number two um it's in relationally but number two um it's in relationally but number two um it's about maintaining Integrity so we have about maintaining Integrity so we have about maintaining Integrity so we have these five values that I write about in these five values that I write about in these five values that I write about in the deeply formed life and every month the deeply formed life and every month the deeply formed life and every month I'm having a conversation with the one I'm having a conversation with the one I'm having a conversation with the one board member on one of those values board member on one of those values board member on one of those values because at the start of each board because at the start of each board because at the start of each board meeting the second Wednesday of each meeting the second Wednesday of each meeting the second Wednesday of each month one of our board members is going month one of our board members is going month one of our board members is going to share the ways that they wrestling to share the ways that they wrestling to share the ways that they wrestling with this particular value and so um with this particular value and so um with this particular value and so um what that's done for us is it's helped what that's done for us is it's helped what that's done for us is it's helped our board members to see uh they're just our board members to see uh they're just our board members to see uh they're just not on the board because they're Savvy not on the board because they're Savvy not on the board because they're Savvy in finances or they have good good in finances or they have good good in finances or they have good good business Acumen or uh they're great in business Acumen or uh they're great in business Acumen or uh they're great in legal services um they're there because legal services um they're there because legal services um they're there because we want to model something as a we want to model something as a we want to model something as a community of board members before the community of board members before the community of board members before the before the church uh and so um that has before the church uh and so um that has before the church uh and so um that has been a significant shift I think in in been a significant shift I think in in been a significant shift I think in in the life of our church uh moreover every the life of our church uh moreover every the life of our church uh moreover every year we have done like a book together year we have done like a book together year we have done like a book together um to help uh board Dynamics and um to help uh board Dynamics and um to help uh board Dynamics and wrestling through various issues that we wrestling through various issues that we wrestling through various issues that we are trying to discern God's will on um are trying to discern God's will on um are trying to discern God's will on um but also I I I have a monthly report but also I I I have a monthly report but also I I I have a monthly report that I sent to the board that's naming that I sent to the board that's naming that I sent to the board that's naming um you know a very clear template in um you know a very clear template in um you know a very clear template in terms of what's going on in my life

terms of what's going on in my life terms of what's going on in my life various facets of My Life um areas that various facets of My Life um areas that various facets of My Life um areas that they can speak into questions that they they can speak into questions that they they can speak into questions that they can name and so every month I'm can name and so every month I'm can name and so every month I'm reporting to the board naming the reporting to the board naming the reporting to the board naming the tensions the complexities the challenges tensions the complexities the challenges tensions the complexities the challenges with my my own life my family uh am I with my my own life my family uh am I with my my own life my family uh am I giving myself too much to the outside so giving myself too much to the outside so giving myself too much to the outside so there's just normal open space to have there's just normal open space to have there's just normal open space to have some of these conversations on a regular some of these conversations on a regular some of these conversations on a regular basis and as a matter of fact whenever I basis and as a matter of fact whenever I basis and as a matter of fact whenever I invite a board member on or whenever uh invite a board member on or whenever uh invite a board member on or whenever uh uh in our model our congregation uh in our model our congregation uh in our model our congregation nominates um candidates and then they go nominates um candidates and then they go nominates um candidates and then they go through a process um whenever I'm through a process um whenever I'm through a process um whenever I'm meeting with one of the board members meeting with one of the board members meeting with one of the board members one of the things I'm saying is can you one of the things I'm saying is can you one of the things I'm saying is can you um ask me hard questions um are you able um ask me hard questions um are you able um ask me hard questions um are you able to stand your ground and offer a to stand your ground and offer a to stand your ground and offer a perspective that might be different than perspective that might be different than perspective that might be different than mine and I ask these questions because I mine and I ask these questions because I mine and I ask these questions because I know what it's like to have just board know what it's like to have just board know what it's like to have just board members who are just going to say yes to members who are just going to say yes to members who are just going to say yes to everything at the same time there must everything at the same time there must everything at the same time there must be such an alignment of values car that be such an alignment of values car that be such an alignment of values car that that if a board member and we've had that if a board member and we've had that if a board member and we've had this as well where this is a value that this as well where this is a value that this as well where this is a value that we believe in but the board member might we believe in but the board member might we believe in but the board member might not necessarily be fully aligned not necessarily be fully aligned not necessarily be fully aligned and now we're in trouble in terms of and now we're in trouble in terms of and now we're in trouble in terms of tension so I preach something and they tension so I preach something and they tension so I preach something and they go why are we preaching that uh and so go why are we preaching that uh and so go why are we preaching that uh and so that's the that's the dance here uh and that's the that's the dance here uh and that's the that's the dance here uh and uh we haven't always done it perfectly uh we haven't always done it perfectly uh we haven't always done it perfectly but I think we've done it really well but I think we've done it really well but I think we've done it really well over almost four decades how big is your over almost four decades how big is your over almost four decades how big is your board how many board how many board how many members um it varies so it's it's members um it varies so it's it's members um it varies so it's it's usually anywhere between I'd say seven usually anywhere between I'd say seven usually anywhere between I'd say seven to nine people and I I'm included in

to nine people and I I'm included in to nine people and I I'm included in that great so it is scalable in the that great so it is scalable in the that great so it is scalable in the sense that you can do that hour to 90 sense that you can do that hour to 90 sense that you can do that hour to 90 minutes with a board meeting a board minutes with a board meeting a board minutes with a board meeting a board member once a month I was just thinking member once a month I was just thinking member once a month I was just thinking if you got a big board uh things start if you got a big board uh things start if you got a big board uh things start to get difficult quickly with that yes to get difficult quickly with that yes to get difficult quickly with that yes exactly right in my case yes correct in exactly right in my case yes correct in exactly right in my case yes correct in this setting here it's manageable to this setting here it's manageable to this setting here it's manageable to have that annual Connection in that way have that annual Connection in that way have that annual Connection in that way I'm connecting with them in other spaces I'm connecting with them in other spaces I'm connecting with them in other spaces but that oneto one is really important but that oneto one is really important but that oneto one is really important so I went to our podcast listeners on so I went to our podcast listeners on so I went to our podcast listeners on social and got some questions and I social and got some questions and I social and got some questions and I thought picked a few of them that I want thought picked a few of them that I want thought picked a few of them that I want to give to you you know you are really to give to you you know you are really to give to you you know you are really focused on on creating and anchoring focused on on creating and anchoring focused on on creating and anchoring yourself into a deep ly formed life life yourself into a deep ly formed life life yourself into a deep ly formed life life I should say um how do you slow down in I should say um how do you slow down in I should say um how do you slow down in a world that seems to be just getting faster yeah you know faster yeah you know um first of all I think it's important um first of all I think it's important um first of all I think it's important to clarify what I mean when I say to clarify what I mean when I say to clarify what I mean when I say slow because by slowing down I'm I'm not slow because by slowing down I'm I'm not slow because by slowing down I'm I'm not talking about not being productive not talking about not being productive not talking about not being productive not getting things done to slow down doesn't getting things done to slow down doesn't getting things done to slow down doesn't mean I have to lessen my capacity or my mean I have to lessen my capacity or my mean I have to lessen my capacity or my desire to get things done and I say that desire to get things done and I say that desire to get things done and I say that because I I think if we're not careful because I I think if we're not careful because I I think if we're not careful um um um slow can become another way idolatry slow can become another way idolatry slow can become another way idolatry surfaces in our lives surfaces in our lives surfaces in our lives where it's about being slow as a as an where it's about being slow as a as an where it's about being slow as a as an end uh and um five sabbaths this week end uh and um five sabbaths this week end uh and um five sabbaths this week you get one per week man exactly and uh

you get one per week man exactly and uh you get one per week man exactly and uh and so for me by slowing down what I'm and so for me by slowing down what I'm and so for me by slowing down what I'm getting at is a kind of pace that makes getting at is a kind of pace that makes getting at is a kind of pace that makes me more attentive to God more attentive me more attentive to God more attentive me more attentive to God more attentive to myself and more attentive to my to myself and more attentive to my to myself and more attentive to my neighbor whether my first neighbors my neighbor whether my first neighbors my neighbor whether my first neighbors my family or the neighbor whoever I might family or the neighbor whoever I might family or the neighbor whoever I might be next to in a given moment and so for be next to in a given moment and so for be next to in a given moment and so for me that's what slowing down is and at me that's what slowing down is and at me that's what slowing down is and at the core of this I think is a Theology the core of this I think is a Theology the core of this I think is a Theology of limits it's it's a recognition that I of limits it's it's a recognition that I of limits it's it's a recognition that I can't do all the things I want to do I can't do all the things I want to do I can't do all the things I want to do I have a limit in my capacity limit in have a limit in my capacity limit in have a limit in my capacity limit in energy limit in intellect limit in energy limit in intellect limit in energy limit in intellect limit in finances uh and so for me um practically finances uh and so for me um practically finances uh and so for me um practically slowing down and we've already alluded slowing down and we've already alluded slowing down and we've already alluded to it briefly I mean it's a weekly to it briefly I mean it's a weekly to it briefly I mean it's a weekly Sabbath for me um it's it's many Sabbath for me um it's it's many Sabbath for me um it's it's many sabbaths in a given day so a mini sabbaths in a given day so a mini sabbaths in a given day so a mini Sabbath for me is like a a 10 to 15 Sabbath for me is like a a 10 to 15 Sabbath for me is like a a 10 to 15 minute moment in a given day where i'm minute moment in a given day where i'm minute moment in a given day where i'm slowing down to to pray to reflect to slowing down to to pray to reflect to slowing down to to pray to reflect to journal um for me it and and this is a journal um for me it and and this is a journal um for me it and and this is a kind of crucifixion car I just want to kind of crucifixion car I just want to kind of crucifixion car I just want to tell you I I don't have a particular tell you I I don't have a particular tell you I I don't have a particular Grace on my life because I write about Grace on my life because I write about Grace on my life because I write about this stuff that I'm able to do it far this stuff that I'm able to do it far this stuff that I'm able to do it far easier than anyone else um I think the easier than anyone else um I think the easier than anyone else um I think the fact that I write about this stuff makes fact that I write about this stuff makes fact that I write about this stuff makes it even harder for me to do it because I it even harder for me to do it because I it even harder for me to do it because I I I recognize everything inside me wants I I recognize everything inside me wants I I recognize everything inside me wants to do something else um and so it's a to do something else um and so it's a to do something else um and so it's a it's a little crucifixion every day for it's a little crucifixion every day for it's a little crucifixion every day for me and so it's really hard for me to me and so it's really hard for me to me and so it's really hard for me to slow down but the Sab you know something slow down but the Sab you know something slow down but the Sab you know something very practical slowing down as a family very practical slowing down as a family very practical slowing down as a family you know that the time that we eat

you know that the time that we eat you know that the time that we eat together as a family I I forget the stat together as a family I I forget the stat together as a family I I forget the stat I have to look it up I said from the I have to look it up I said from the I have to look it up I said from the 1990s to like today the amount of time 1990s to like today the amount of time 1990s to like today the amount of time for a meal has gone down so much so it for a meal has gone down so much so it for a meal has gone down so much so it might have been like 30 minutes of where might have been like 30 minutes of where might have been like 30 minutes of where people actually sat down and had a people actually sat down and had a people actually sat down and had a conversation with their family and it is conversation with their family and it is conversation with their family and it is maybe down half or something along those maybe down half or something along those maybe down half or something along those lines where people are scarfing down lines where people are scarfing down lines where people are scarfing down their food and then they're up again so their food and then they're up again so their food and then they're up again so what we Tred to do even on a almost a what we Tred to do even on a almost a what we Tred to do even on a almost a week you know daily basis is what does week you know daily basis is what does week you know daily basis is what does it look like for us to have a meal it look like for us to have a meal it look like for us to have a meal together as a family or if we're with together as a family or if we're with together as a family or if we're with friends and not get up from the table uh friends and not get up from the table uh friends and not get up from the table uh really quickly uh what does it look like really quickly uh what does it look like really quickly uh what does it look like to have good conversation and to be to have good conversation and to be to have good conversation and to be inquisitive about each other's lives and inquisitive about each other's lives and inquisitive about each other's lives and so that's for me one of the ways that so that's for me one of the ways that so that's for me one of the ways that I'm trying to um slow down my life okay I'm trying to um slow down my life okay I'm trying to um slow down my life okay other listeners in um listener submitted other listeners in um listener submitted other listeners in um listener submitted questions that's phrase I'm looking for questions that's phrase I'm looking for questions that's phrase I'm looking for um how do you balance spiritual health um how do you balance spiritual health um how do you balance spiritual health and performance issues with staff in and performance issues with staff in and performance issues with staff in other words you want to be their other words you want to be their other words you want to be their spiritual advisor but you got a slacker spiritual advisor but you got a slacker spiritual advisor but you got a slacker there who's not really producing much or there who's not really producing much or there who's not really producing much or somebody who's not the right fit how do somebody who's not the right fit how do somebody who's not the right fit how do how do you coach somebody in a how do you coach somebody in a how do you coach somebody in a spiritually healthy way when their spiritually healthy way when their spiritually healthy way when their performance isn't up to performance isn't up to performance isn't up to Snuff I mean the way we've done it over Snuff I mean the way we've done it over Snuff I mean the way we've done it over these years is the language I've used is these years is the language I've used is these years is the language I've used is uh we are always holding together soul uh we are always holding together soul uh we are always holding together soul and role um and um and so we want to see and role um and um and so we want to see and role um and um and so we want to see you growing in your own formation at the you growing in your own formation at the you growing in your own formation at the same time um especially staff workers

same time um especially staff workers same time um especially staff workers you've been hired to do a certain job uh you've been hired to do a certain job uh you've been hired to do a certain job uh with particular goals and priorities set with particular goals and priorities set with particular goals and priorities set so this is a matter of good stewardship so this is a matter of good stewardship so this is a matter of good stewardship um people are giving their money uh and um people are giving their money uh and um people are giving their money uh and to support the work that we're doing on to support the work that we're doing on to support the work that we're doing on a staff level and so for me this is how a staff level and so for me this is how a staff level and so for me this is how are we managing and stewarding what are we managing and stewarding what are we managing and stewarding what we've received practically I we've received practically I we've received practically I think clarifying expectations on a think clarifying expectations on a think clarifying expectations on a regular basis has been one of the most regular basis has been one of the most regular basis has been one of the most important things that we've done and if important things that we've done and if important things that we've done and if I can use kind of just good emotionally I can use kind of just good emotionally I can use kind of just good emotionally healthy relationships language healthy relationships language healthy relationships language expectation is only valid when four expectation is only valid when four expectation is only valid when four things happen when it is conscious when things happen when it is conscious when things happen when it is conscious when it is spoken when it is realistic and it is spoken when it is realistic and it is spoken when it is realistic and when it is agreed upon that's what makes when it is agreed upon that's what makes when it is agreed upon that's what makes an expectation valid conscious spoken an expectation valid conscious spoken an expectation valid conscious spoken realistic agreed upon when a staff realistic agreed upon when a staff realistic agreed upon when a staff person comes on they have a very clear person comes on they have a very clear person comes on they have a very clear job description um when I when I meet job description um when I when I meet job description um when I when I meet with our staff for highlevel staff I with our staff for highlevel staff I with our staff for highlevel staff I have annually a set of priorities hopes have annually a set of priorities hopes have annually a set of priorities hopes goals that I'm hoping this particular goals that I'm hoping this particular goals that I'm hoping this particular area of our church uh is going to move area of our church uh is going to move area of our church uh is going to move towards towards towards and then we have a conversation of you and then we have a conversation of you and then we have a conversation of you know to what degree are we collaborating know to what degree are we collaborating know to what degree are we collaborating to what degree are they adding whatever to what degree are they adding whatever to what degree are they adding whatever priorities they think is important in priorities they think is important in priorities they think is important in this area and then we agree to say okay this area and then we agree to say okay this area and then we agree to say okay we are agreeing together now we have a we are agreeing together now we have a we are agreeing together now we have a shared expectation now in the event that shared expectation now in the event that shared expectation now in the event that doesn't happen or there's significant doesn't happen or there's significant doesn't happen or there's significant underperformance in that area then we underperformance in that area then we underperformance in that area then we have to have an honest conversation have to have an honest conversation have to have an honest conversation about fit about the person's ability to about fit about the person's ability to about fit about the person's ability to stay in this role but it requires us to stay in this role but it requires us to stay in this role but it requires us to to speak very honestly to clarify

to speak very honestly to clarify to speak very honestly to clarify expectations on a regular basis expectations on a regular basis expectations on a regular basis um we have never been at New Life of the um we have never been at New Life of the um we have never been at New Life of the uh or or may Pete might might say uh or or may Pete might might say uh or or may Pete might might say different Pete had his own personal different Pete had his own personal different Pete had his own personal revolution in this but we want to care revolution in this but we want to care revolution in this but we want to care for the soul and their development and for the soul and their development and for the soul and their development and at the same time um have them coach them at the same time um have them coach them at the same time um have them coach them up to that the role that they're in that up to that the role that they're in that up to that the role that they're in that they're bearing fruit in in the ways they're bearing fruit in in the ways they're bearing fruit in in the ways that they're working and so clarifying that they're working and so clarifying that they're working and so clarifying expectations for us on a regular basis I expectations for us on a regular basis I expectations for us on a regular basis I think has been really important to hold think has been really important to hold think has been really important to hold that together so this question comes that together so this question comes that together so this question comes from uh podcast listener and guest uh from uh podcast listener and guest uh from uh podcast listener and guest uh James polter wants to know he's big into James polter wants to know he's big into James polter wants to know he's big into Ai and app parent what does the deeply Ai and app parent what does the deeply Ai and app parent what does the deeply formed life look like for kids in a formed life look like for kids in a formed life look like for kids in a smartphone smartphone smartphone era era era yeah um you got kids have a I have a yeah um you got kids have a I have a yeah um you got kids have a I have a 15-year-old and almost a 10-year-old um 15-year-old and almost a 10-year-old um 15-year-old and almost a 10-year-old um so uh a deeply formed life I mean uh for so uh a deeply formed life I mean uh for so uh a deeply formed life I mean uh for me it's it's my way of talking about a me it's it's my way of talking about a me it's it's my way of talking about a deep spiritual formation uh this is deep spiritual formation uh this is deep spiritual formation uh this is Galatians 4 where Paul says I'm in the Galatians 4 where Paul says I'm in the Galatians 4 where Paul says I'm in the Pains of childbirth until Christ is Pains of childbirth until Christ is Pains of childbirth until Christ is formed in you and so uh to just frame formed in you and so uh to just frame formed in you and so uh to just frame that I'm thinking about the Life of that I'm thinking about the Life of that I'm thinking about the Life of Christ being formed in an adult and a Christ being formed in an adult and a Christ being formed in an adult and a child a child a child a teenager teenager teenager um you know I think the smartphone uh um you know I think the smartphone uh um you know I think the smartphone uh makes it very easy for adults and makes it very easy for adults and makes it very easy for adults and children to be children to be children to be malformed um and so the the the essence malformed um and so the the the essence malformed um and so the the the essence of this technology actually promotes a

of this technology actually promotes a of this technology actually promotes a skimming skimming skimming scrolling surface way of being I mean scrolling surface way of being I mean scrolling surface way of being I mean the very essence of its user experience the very essence of its user experience the very essence of its user experience is skimming scrolling is skimming scrolling is skimming scrolling surface um and so that comes I mean that surface um and so that comes I mean that surface um and so that comes I mean that Mal forms Us in some significant ways um Mal forms Us in some significant ways um Mal forms Us in some significant ways um in addition to that specifically social in addition to that specifically social in addition to that specifically social media I think presents before us a media I think presents before us a media I think presents before us a temptation to be like God and God's temptation to be like God and God's temptation to be like God and God's attributes around um omnipresence trying attributes around um omnipresence trying attributes around um omnipresence trying to be everywhere at the same time and to be everywhere at the same time and to be everywhere at the same time and not being where we're at um omniscience not being where we're at um omniscience not being where we're at um omniscience trying to know everything and omnipotent trying to know everything and omnipotent trying to know everything and omnipotent trying to use our maybe our presence our trying to use our maybe our presence our trying to use our maybe our presence our words as a means of power um and so I words as a means of power um and so I words as a means of power um and so I think this is very real for adults and think this is very real for adults and think this is very real for adults and for children um and so what's required I for children um and so what's required I for children um and so what's required I I do think a spirituality of fasting is I do think a spirituality of fasting is I do think a spirituality of fasting is required I think fasting food was and required I think fasting food was and required I think fasting food was and still is has some significant spiritual still is has some significant spiritual still is has some significant spiritual benefits um I wonder if the fasting of benefits um I wonder if the fasting of benefits um I wonder if the fasting of Technology um needs to um not Technology um needs to um not Technology um needs to um not necessarily replace but almost be on on necessarily replace but almost be on on necessarily replace but almost be on on par with food um because of the par with food um because of the par with food um because of the intrusive nature of of technology and so intrusive nature of of technology and so intrusive nature of of technology and so to fast is to say no to give a greater to fast is to say no to give a greater to fast is to say no to give a greater yes to something or or someone else in yes to something or or someone else in yes to something or or someone else in terms of children you know I I guess it terms of children you know I I guess it terms of children you know I I guess it depends how old the child is um and um

depends how old the child is um and um depends how old the child is um and um uh so that's number one I think every uh so that's number one I think every uh so that's number one I think every you know some children might be a bit you know some children might be a bit you know some children might be a bit more precocious and might be able to I more precocious and might be able to I more precocious and might be able to I know Jonathan height has is written a know Jonathan height has is written a know Jonathan height has is written a bunch already about you know when kids bunch already about you know when kids bunch already about you know when kids should get smartphones and when should should get smartphones and when should should get smartphones and when should they should get social media and his they should get social media and his they should get social media and his take is you know 14 and 16 uh when they take is you know 14 and 16 uh when they take is you know 14 and 16 uh when they should get that uh which I think I think should get that uh which I think I think should get that uh which I think I think there's some good data around that um I there's some good data around that um I there's some good data around that um I think kids need what's a deeply formed think kids need what's a deeply formed think kids need what's a deeply formed life kids need clear life kids need clear life kids need clear boundaries uh kids need uh us to be boundaries uh kids need uh us to be boundaries uh kids need uh us to be involved and therefore involved and therefore involved and therefore what is it doing to you to what the how what is it doing to you to what the how what is it doing to you to what the how are you interacting you know when our are you interacting you know when our are you interacting you know when our daughter got her first phone um or her daughter got her first phone um or her daughter got her first phone um or her phone uh there was actually it might phone uh there was actually it might phone uh there was actually it might have been Cara Powell I think I heard have been Cara Powell I think I heard have been Cara Powell I think I heard from Cara where there was like this um from Cara where there was like this um from Cara where there was like this um smartphone checklist or like smartphone checklist or like smartphone checklist or like agreement uh that we were going agreement uh that we were going agreement uh that we were going to yeah and so we met around that and to yeah and so we met around that and to yeah and so we met around that and we've had to pull that thing out a few we've had to pull that thing out a few we've had to pull that thing out a few times to say now remember the contract times to say now remember the contract times to say now remember the contract uh this is the contract this is what we uh this is the contract this is what we uh this is the contract this is what we agreed to this is what we're agreeing to agreed to this is what we're agreeing to agreed to this is what we're agreeing to and so uh I recommend Cara's resource on and so uh I recommend Cara's resource on and so uh I recommend Cara's resource on that for parents who are trying to that for parents who are trying to that for parents who are trying to discern how to disciple their children discern how to disciple their children discern how to disciple their children or or appropriately guard um their lives or or appropriately guard um their lives or or appropriately guard um their lives from being swallowed up in the abyss of from being swallowed up in the abyss of from being swallowed up in the abyss of social media and the smartphone but um I social media and the smartphone but um I social media and the smartphone but um I I think those clear boundaries and that I think those clear boundaries and that I think those clear boundaries and that parent contract I think is one way to parent contract I think is one way to parent contract I think is one way to start we're doing a whole series on this start we're doing a whole series on this start we're doing a whole series on this so feel free to give us the uh thumbnail so feel free to give us the uh thumbnail so feel free to give us the uh thumbnail version but we're heading into an ction version but we're heading into an ction version but we're heading into an ction year so much division you're in New York

year so much division you're in New York year so much division you're in New York you have so many nations people groups you have so many nations people groups you have so many nations people groups perspectives represented at your church perspectives represented at your church perspectives represented at your church what's your approach or strategy heading what's your approach or strategy heading what's your approach or strategy heading into the fall of 2024 yeah my Approach and strategy is to 2024 yeah my Approach and strategy is to do what I did in 2020 uh in 2016 I made do what I did in 2020 uh in 2016 I made do what I did in 2020 uh in 2016 I made a big mistake um I assumed that um a big mistake um I assumed that um a big mistake um I assumed that um people would um vote in particular ways people would um vote in particular ways people would um vote in particular ways and um and because of that assumption I and um and because of that assumption I and um and because of that assumption I unwittingly hurt and alienated people uh unwittingly hurt and alienated people uh unwittingly hurt and alienated people uh because I I I did not have the full uh because I I I did not have the full uh because I I I did not have the full uh grasp of diversity within my grasp of diversity within my grasp of diversity within my congregation uh and so I heard a lot of congregation uh and so I heard a lot of congregation uh and so I heard a lot of people in 2016 alienated some folks 2020 people in 2016 alienated some folks 2020 people in 2016 alienated some folks 2020 um I I I did it differently and so um um I I I did it differently and so um um I I I did it differently and so um new life is very diverse 75 Nations new life is very diverse 75 Nations new life is very diverse 75 Nations represented 123 languages spoken diverse represented 123 languages spoken diverse represented 123 languages spoken diverse across the board politically across the board politically across the board politically generationally socioeconomically generationally socioeconomically generationally socioeconomically um you know my hope first of all is that um you know my hope first of all is that um you know my hope first of all is that I would preach and Foster a culture that I would preach and Foster a culture that I would preach and Foster a culture that has a social imagination that's shaped has a social imagination that's shaped has a social imagination that's shaped by Jesus in the way of his kingdom um uh by Jesus in the way of his kingdom um uh by Jesus in the way of his kingdom um uh uh in 2020 I gave a series of five uh in 2020 I gave a series of five uh in 2020 I gave a series of five messages on politics I'm not going to do messages on politics I'm not going to do messages on politics I'm not going to do five I'll probably do two this year um five I'll probably do two this year um five I'll probably do two this year um and at the beginning of every sermon I and at the beginning of every sermon I and at the beginning of every sermon I said three things I said if you vote for said three things I said if you vote for said three things I said if you vote for Donald Trump you're welcome to come to Donald Trump you're welcome to come to Donald Trump you're welcome to come to our church if you vote for Joe Biden our church if you vote for Joe Biden our church if you vote for Joe Biden you're welcome to come for our to our you're welcome to come for our to our you're welcome to come for our to our church I just hope and pray that you church I just hope and pray that you church I just hope and pray that you would see uh your politics through Jesus would see uh your politics through Jesus would see uh your politics through Jesus and not Jesus through your politics my

and not Jesus through your politics my and not Jesus through your politics my hope is number two that you would be hope is number two that you would be hope is number two that you would be curious as to why members of our curious as to why members of our curious as to why members of our community see the world differently than community see the world differently than community see the world differently than you do and number three that you would you do and number three that you would you do and number three that you would be prayerfully humble um as we are in be prayerfully humble um as we are in be prayerfully humble um as we are in conversations with one another and so I conversations with one another and so I conversations with one another and so I think more than anything I'm trying to think more than anything I'm trying to think more than anything I'm trying to shape the the the the interpersonal shape the the the the interpersonal shape the the the the interpersonal culture of how we relate to one another culture of how we relate to one another culture of how we relate to one another um that does not reflect the world um that does not reflect the world um that does not reflect the world around us uh and then for me as a Master around us uh and then for me as a Master around us uh and then for me as a Master my primary job is to grow in my own my primary job is to grow in my own my primary job is to grow in my own level of self- differentiation we've level of self- differentiation we've level of self- differentiation we've talked about it before my ability to talked about it before my ability to talked about it before my ability to remain close to God close to myself and remain close to God close to myself and remain close to God close to myself and close to others in times of high anxiety close to others in times of high anxiety close to others in times of high anxiety and reactivity and so what's my Approach and reactivity and so what's my Approach and reactivity and so what's my Approach I need to take care of my own soul first I need to take care of my own soul first I need to take care of my own soul first and lead from a place of calm presence and lead from a place of calm presence and lead from a place of calm presence and not and not and not reactivity as much as you're comfortable reactivity as much as you're comfortable reactivity as much as you're comfortable sharing and I imagine it's on the public sharing and I imagine it's on the public sharing and I imagine it's on the public record if we want to dig back what was record if we want to dig back what was record if we want to dig back what was your mistake looking back on it that you your mistake looking back on it that you your mistake looking back on it that you made in made in made in 2016 back can be frank Carrie I mean I 2016 back can be frank Carrie I mean I 2016 back can be frank Carrie I mean I um I I had a hard time um believing that um I I had a hard time um believing that um I I had a hard time um believing that folks in our community would um vote for folks in our community would um vote for folks in our community would um vote for Donald Trump um and for various Donald Trump um and for various Donald Trump um and for various character reasons um and because of that character reasons um and because of that character reasons um and because of that I was I had a major blind spot around I was I had a major blind spot around I was I had a major blind spot around the level of impact that to critique a the level of impact that to critique a the level of impact that to critique a political figure or political party political figure or political party political figure or political party often critiques people at their deepest often critiques people at their deepest often critiques people at their deepest at a deep Center and so my mistake was at a deep Center and so my mistake was at a deep Center and so my mistake was on social media um I think I said things

on social media um I think I said things on social media um I think I said things about Donald Trump um about Donald Trump um about Donald Trump um that things along the lines of like if that things along the lines of like if that things along the lines of like if you support this guy um there's you support this guy um there's you support this guy um there's something wrong with you something along something wrong with you something along something wrong with you something along to the effect of that there might have to the effect of that there might have to the effect of that there might have come out as blatant as that but it was come out as blatant as that but it was come out as blatant as that but it was along those lines there and I realized along those lines there and I realized along those lines there and I realized because I started having a lot of because I started having a lot of because I started having a lot of conversations with people in my conversations with people in my conversations with people in my community I would say 30% of our church community I would say 30% of our church community I would say 30% of our church voted for Donald Trump voted for Donald Trump voted for Donald Trump um and so that's a big swath of people um and so that's a big swath of people um and so that's a big swath of people with that in New Life Fellowship you with that in New Life Fellowship you with that in New Life Fellowship you know 12500 people that's 500 people know 12500 people that's 500 people know 12500 people that's 500 people there that voted for a particular there that voted for a particular there that voted for a particular candidate and I just realized I I I I candidate and I just realized I I I I candidate and I just realized I I I I was not as was not as was not as curious um and I curious um and I curious um and I unwittingly um alienated people because unwittingly um alienated people because unwittingly um alienated people because of that there um and so that doesn't of that there um and so that doesn't of that there um and so that doesn't mean I still don't have strong mean I still don't have strong mean I still don't have strong convictions about what I think it means convictions about what I think it means convictions about what I think it means to follow Jesus and how the world should to follow Jesus and how the world should to follow Jesus and how the world should be ordered be ordered be ordered um uh in the name of Jesus but I think um uh in the name of Jesus but I think um uh in the name of Jesus but I think I'm doing so recognizing people at very I'm doing so recognizing people at very I'm doing so recognizing people at very different points in their spiritual different points in their spiritual different points in their spiritual Journeys and why they see the world that Journeys and why they see the world that Journeys and why they see the world that in the way that they do and what does in the way that they do and what does in the way that they do and what does discipleship look like now as opposed to discipleship look like now as opposed to discipleship look like now as opposed to alienation um and I think that's what I alienation um and I think that's what I alienation um and I think that's what I did in that season so you got a new book did in that season so you got a new book did in that season so you got a new book called The Narrow Path and I'm was called The Narrow Path and I'm was called The Narrow Path and I'm was excited to get my hands on a copy of it excited to get my hands on a copy of it excited to get my hands on a copy of it um you argue a lot of Christians are um you argue a lot of Christians are um you argue a lot of Christians are actually on the broad path so so can you actually on the broad path so so can you actually on the broad path so so can you just Define terms I think most people just Define terms I think most people just Define terms I think most people have an idea of what you're talking have an idea of what you're talking have an idea of what you're talking about but why would you say most about but why would you say most about but why would you say most Christians are actually on the broad

Christians are actually on the broad Christians are actually on the broad path yeah the Narrow Path very simply is path yeah the Narrow Path very simply is path yeah the Narrow Path very simply is it's the way of following the it's the way of following the it's the way of following the countercultural way of Jesus as countercultural way of Jesus as countercultural way of Jesus as reflected in The Sermon on the Mount so reflected in The Sermon on the Mount so reflected in The Sermon on the Mount so the narrow path is a book really the narrow path is a book really the narrow path is a book really focusing on The Sermon on the Mount and focusing on The Sermon on the Mount and focusing on The Sermon on the Mount and Jesus says there's a broad path and Jesus says there's a broad path and Jesus says there's a broad path and there's an Narrow Path what's there's an Narrow Path what's there's an Narrow Path what's interesting is um I contend that when interesting is um I contend that when interesting is um I contend that when Jesus talks about the Narrow Path and Jesus talks about the Narrow Path and Jesus talks about the Narrow Path and the broad path he's not simply or maybe the broad path he's not simply or maybe the broad path he's not simply or maybe even primarily within that context even primarily within that context even primarily within that context talking about the afterlife lots of talking about the afterlife lots of talking about the afterlife lots of Christians believe oh he's talking about Christians believe oh he's talking about Christians believe oh he's talking about the afterlife which means not a lot of the afterlife which means not a lot of the afterlife which means not a lot of people are going to be in heaven the people are going to be in heaven the people are going to be in heaven the broad path is going to be filled with broad path is going to be filled with broad path is going to be filled with lots of sinners in there because because lots of sinners in there because because lots of sinners in there because because hell's going to be filled with lots of s hell's going to be filled with lots of s hell's going to be filled with lots of s I'm not sure Jesus the emphasis the I'm not sure Jesus the emphasis the I'm not sure Jesus the emphasis the accent of his teachings has to do with accent of his teachings has to do with accent of his teachings has to do with the afterlife so much as he's referring the afterlife so much as he's referring the afterlife so much as he's referring to life here and right now the kingdom to life here and right now the kingdom to life here and right now the kingdom of God here and right now and so the of God here and right now and so the of God here and right now and so the narrow path is the um the the subversive narrow path is the um the the subversive narrow path is the um the the subversive undermining way of Jesus that undermines undermining way of Jesus that undermines undermining way of Jesus that undermines the ways of common culture and and the ways of common culture and and the ways of common culture and and cultural norms the broad path is just cultural norms the broad path is just cultural norms the broad path is just the way that everyone takes and my my my the way that everyone takes and my my my the way that everyone takes and my my my summation of that is I think what Jesus summation of that is I think what Jesus summation of that is I think what Jesus is doing his three things in The Sermon is doing his three things in The Sermon is doing his three things in The Sermon on the Mount and identifying the broad on the Mount and identifying the broad on the Mount and identifying the broad path by a sense of moralism success ISM path by a sense of moralism success ISM path by a sense of moralism success ISM and and and individualism and very simply moralism individualism and very simply moralism individualism and very simply moralism is a the way I'm presenting it a a way is a the way I'm presenting it a a way is a the way I'm presenting it a a way of focusing on the externals to such a of focusing on the externals to such a of focusing on the externals to such a degree that the internals are not taken degree that the internals are not taken degree that the internals are not taken um there's no inventory in the internals um there's no inventory in the internals um there's no inventory in the internals and so Jesus has to say on a regular

and so Jesus has to say on a regular and so Jesus has to say on a regular basis you've heard it said but I tell basis you've heard it said but I tell basis you've heard it said but I tell you you've heard it said You shall not you you've heard it said You shall not you you've heard it said You shall not commit murder uh but I tell you there's commit murder uh but I tell you there's commit murder uh but I tell you there's something deeper that God wants to do in something deeper that God wants to do in something deeper that God wants to do in your life success ism is our way of your life success ism is our way of your life success ism is our way of determining what a good life looks like determining what a good life looks like determining what a good life looks like what a successful life looks like and I what a successful life looks like and I what a successful life looks like and I think what Jes the Broadway has a think what Jes the Broadway has a think what Jes the Broadway has a particular way of seeing success what a particular way of seeing success what a particular way of seeing success what a good life is and I Think Jesus even in good life is and I Think Jesus even in good life is and I Think Jesus even in the start of the sermon of the mount the start of the sermon of the mount the start of the sermon of the mount with his Beatitudes is saying a good with his Beatitudes is saying a good with his Beatitudes is saying a good life a blessed life a happy life looks a life a blessed life a happy life looks a life a blessed life a happy life looks a lot different in the kingdom of God than lot different in the kingdom of God than lot different in the kingdom of God than it does in the Kingdom of the world and it does in the Kingdom of the world and it does in the Kingdom of the world and so the Broadway is the common ways that so the Broadway is the common ways that so the Broadway is the common ways that we tend to Define what a good life a we tend to Define what a good life a we tend to Define what a good life a successful life looks like and then successful life looks like and then successful life looks like and then individualism it for me the way I'm individualism it for me the way I'm individualism it for me the way I'm presenting it is the Broadway is presenting it is the Broadway is presenting it is the Broadway is disconnecting our spirituality from our disconnecting our spirituality from our disconnecting our spirituality from our neighbor are are disconnecting our neighbor are are disconnecting our neighbor are are disconnecting our relationship with God to our relationship with God to our relationship with God to our relationship with neighbor and that relationship with neighbor and that relationship with neighbor and that sounds so like Christian 101 and yet I I sounds so like Christian 101 and yet I I sounds so like Christian 101 and yet I I think what Jesus is saying is any think what Jesus is saying is any think what Jesus is saying is any spirituality that does not hold together spirituality that does not hold together spirituality that does not hold together in the deepest of ways love for God and in the deepest of ways love for God and in the deepest of ways love for God and love for neighbor is not a spirituality love for neighbor is not a spirituality love for neighbor is not a spirituality of the narrow path that is the broad of the narrow path that is the broad of the narrow path that is the broad path uh and so um ultimately I'm trying path uh and so um ultimately I'm trying path uh and so um ultimately I'm trying to underscore what Jesus is saying in to underscore what Jesus is saying in to underscore what Jesus is saying in the sermon and mount in in a few of the sermon and mount in in a few of the sermon and mount in in a few of those ways so moralism SU cism and those ways so moralism SU cism and those ways so moralism SU cism and individualism yeah wow okay so yeah when individualism yeah wow okay so yeah when individualism yeah wow okay so yeah when you when you really start to break it you when you really start to break it you when you really start to break it down and you look at The Sermon on the down and you look at The Sermon on the down and you look at The Sermon on the Mount through different lenses it's

Mount through different lenses it's Mount through different lenses it's pretty clear we get caught and it's pretty clear we get caught and it's pretty clear we get caught and it's funny you know just before we go there funny you know just before we go there funny you know just before we go there let me back up a little bit you know let me back up a little bit you know let me back up a little bit you know when you're describing how we when you're describing how we when you're describing how we traditionally think about the the the traditionally think about the the the traditionally think about the the the broad versus The Narrow Path brought me broad versus The Narrow Path brought me broad versus The Narrow Path brought me back to this artwork I haven't thought back to this artwork I haven't thought back to this artwork I haven't thought of in years I'm sure it was in some kids of in years I'm sure it was in some kids of in years I'm sure it was in some kids Bible I got and it was like this narrow Bible I got and it was like this narrow Bible I got and it was like this narrow path with people walking down it this path with people walking down it this path with people walking down it this broad path and it's just packed and broad path and it's just packed and broad path and it's just packed and people are like falling off into the people are like falling off into the people are like falling off into the Flames of hell and all that stuff not Flames of hell and all that stuff not Flames of hell and all that stuff not not do not share this with your children not do not share this with your children not do not share this with your children please in the future moving forward please in the future moving forward please in the future moving forward before bed either not a good image but before bed either not a good image but before bed either not a good image but anyway you know it's sort of that idea anyway you know it's sort of that idea anyway you know it's sort of that idea that oh yeah once you've accepted Christ that oh yeah once you've accepted Christ that oh yeah once you've accepted Christ you're on the Narrow Path but you're you're on the Narrow Path but you're you're on the Narrow Path but you're saying and I I I agree with you this saying and I I I agree with you this saying and I I I agree with you this isn't so isn't so isn't so theological it's more along the lines of theological it's more along the lines of theological it's more along the lines of well Calvin talked about the third and well Calvin talked about the third and well Calvin talked about the third and principle use of the law which is a principle use of the law which is a principle use of the law which is a guide to the redeemed it's basically guide to the redeemed it's basically guide to the redeemed it's basically this is a guide for living is that is this is a guide for living is that is this is a guide for living is that is that right it's not salvation based it's that right it's not salvation based it's that right it's not salvation based it's it's more um how we work out it's it's more um how we work out it's it's more um how we work out it's sanctification based yeah sanctification sanctification based yeah sanctification sanctification based yeah sanctification theology spiritual form uh uh um theology spiritual form uh uh um theology spiritual form uh uh um discipleship spiritual formation yeah um discipleship spiritual formation yeah um discipleship spiritual formation yeah um you know it's it's this might sound you know it's it's this might sound you know it's it's this might sound scandalous to say Carrie but there are scandalous to say Carrie but there are scandalous to say Carrie but there are lots of Christians that are not on the lots of Christians that are not on the lots of Christians that are not on the Narrow Path uh and um because everything Narrow Path uh and um because everything Narrow Path uh and um because everything that Jesus has talked about in The that Jesus has talked about in The that Jesus has talked about in The Sermon on the Mount it is very easy to Sermon on the Mount it is very easy to Sermon on the Mount it is very easy to say yes I'm a follower of Jesus and not say yes I'm a follower of Jesus and not say yes I'm a follower of Jesus and not be living in the way that Christ has be living in the way that Christ has be living in the way that Christ has called us to and so again I'm not called us to and so again I'm not called us to and so again I'm not talking soteriological language here I'm

talking soteriological language here I'm talking soteriological language here I'm talking about discipleship language of talking about discipleship language of talking about discipleship language of course that has impact into eternity but course that has impact into eternity but course that has impact into eternity but the the accent and so um it is a guy now the the accent and so um it is a guy now the the accent and so um it is a guy now what's fascinating though is the way what's fascinating though is the way what's fascinating though is the way that folks have typically interpreted that folks have typically interpreted that folks have typically interpreted The Sermon on the Mount is um through The Sermon on the Mount is um through The Sermon on the Mount is um through lens of this is what can't be done uh lens of this is what can't be done uh lens of this is what can't be done uh therefore the emphasis is on trusting therefore the emphasis is on trusting therefore the emphasis is on trusting God for forgiveness uh and so the the God for forgiveness uh and so the the God for forgiveness uh and so the the language is uh it's rooted in the sermon language is uh it's rooted in the sermon language is uh it's rooted in the sermon on Mount is idealism and we cannot live on Mount is idealism and we cannot live on Mount is idealism and we cannot live this reality and so it's like um instead this reality and so it's like um instead this reality and so it's like um instead of uh you can't live this out so trust of uh you can't live this out so trust of uh you can't live this out so trust God the emphasis I am placing is trust God the emphasis I am placing is trust God the emphasis I am placing is trust God so that by God's grace we can live God so that by God's grace we can live God so that by God's grace we can live this out where the emphasis is not on this out where the emphasis is not on this out where the emphasis is not on Jesus saying you know if you get around Jesus saying you know if you get around Jesus saying you know if you get around to it you know that whole uh loving your to it you know that whole uh loving your to it you know that whole uh loving your enemy thing there uh that whole enemy thing there uh that whole enemy thing there uh that whole relationship to money that whole relationship to money that whole relationship to money that whole relationship to anger if you can't do it relationship to anger if you can't do it relationship to anger if you can't do it don't worry about it uh just trust me don't worry about it uh just trust me don't worry about it uh just trust me and I will forgive you I'm saying that and I will forgive you I'm saying that and I will forgive you I'm saying that that's not that's not the accent the that's not that's not the accent the that's not that's not the accent the accent is we are called to model a whole accent is we are called to model a whole accent is we are called to model a whole different way of being in the world but different way of being in the world but different way of being in the world but it begins by trusting in God's grace and it begins by trusting in God's grace and it begins by trusting in God's grace and in God's forgiveness and his empowerment in God's forgiveness and his empowerment in God's forgiveness and his empowerment in order to do that so for me it's a in order to do that so for me it's a in order to do that so for me it's a it's a question about it's a question about it's a question about accent is this is this to be lived or is accent is this is this to be lived or is accent is this is this to be lived or is this to confront the ways we can't live this to confront the ways we can't live this to confront the ways we can't live it so that we can just receive God's it so that we can just receive God's it so that we can just receive God's forgiveness and I think it's the former forgiveness and I think it's the former forgiveness and I think it's the former rather than the latter so you categorize rather than the latter so you categorize rather than the latter so you categorize The Sermon on the Mount into a number of The Sermon on the Mount into a number of The Sermon on the Mount into a number of categories and I want to just list them

categories and I want to just list them categories and I want to just list them and then yeah I'll let you pick a few and then yeah I'll let you pick a few and then yeah I'll let you pick a few and and just sort of comment on what you and and just sort of comment on what you and and just sort of comment on what you see behind all of them so you've got see behind all of them so you've got see behind all of them so you've got anger words desires money anxiety anger words desires money anxiety anger words desires money anxiety judgments decisions and enemies MH so judgments decisions and enemies MH so judgments decisions and enemies MH so pick one let's go with anger because pick one let's go with anger because pick one let's go with anger because that seems to be a characteristic of the that seems to be a characteristic of the that seems to be a characteristic of the Christian life these days it's like if Christian life these days it's like if Christian life these days it's like if you're not outraged you're not following you're not outraged you're not following you're not outraged you're not following you know Christ there's so much outrage you know Christ there's so much outrage you know Christ there's so much outrage out there on a variety of things what out there on a variety of things what out there on a variety of things what what's your take on that on anger it's what's your take on that on anger it's what's your take on that on anger it's interesting Jesus he he begins by saying interesting Jesus he he begins by saying interesting Jesus he he begins by saying you've heard it said but I say unto you you've heard it said but I say unto you you've heard it said but I say unto you and so when Jesus says you have heard it and so when Jesus says you have heard it and so when Jesus says you have heard it said don't murder but I tell you don't said don't murder but I tell you don't said don't murder but I tell you don't be angry that the anger that Jesus is be angry that the anger that Jesus is be angry that the anger that Jesus is talking about there is not a momentary talking about there is not a momentary talking about there is not a momentary kind of emotional moment that's what it kind of emotional moment that's what it kind of emotional moment that's what it means to be human I think we are we're means to be human I think we are we're means to be human I think we are we're all going to get angry um around number all going to get angry um around number all going to get angry um around number of things the word that Jesus uses there of things the word that Jesus uses there of things the word that Jesus uses there dale Bruner New Testament scholar said dale Bruner New Testament scholar said dale Bruner New Testament scholar said that word is orgaz ominos in Greek which that word is orgaz ominos in Greek which that word is orgaz ominos in Greek which is this ongoing nurturing of anger it's is this ongoing nurturing of anger it's is this ongoing nurturing of anger it's like you're feeding it you're giving it like you're feeding it you're giving it like you're feeding it you're giving it life you're nurturing it you're coddling life you're nurturing it you're coddling life you're nurturing it you're coddling anger to such a degree where he then he anger to such a degree where he then he anger to such a degree where he then he says if you tell a a brother or sister says if you tell a a brother or sister says if you tell a a brother or sister raqqa R AA we don't use that in our uh raqqa R AA we don't use that in our uh raqqa R AA we don't use that in our uh day today but that's like think about day today but that's like think about day today but that's like think about the most um a word with such contempt the most um a word with such contempt the most um a word with such contempt that you have for someone else uh and that you have for someone else uh and that you have for someone else uh and there's lots of raqqa going on in our there's lots of raqqa going on in our there's lots of raqqa going on in our world but he's he's saying the ways that

world but he's he's saying the ways that world but he's he's saying the ways that we nurture anger and feed it is we nurture anger and feed it is we nurture anger and feed it is inconsistent with life in the kingdom of inconsistent with life in the kingdom of inconsistent with life in the kingdom of God and so how must we now deal with God and so how must we now deal with God and so how must we now deal with that anger and the the world around us that anger and the the world around us that anger and the the world around us as you said Carrie I mean people build as you said Carrie I mean people build as you said Carrie I mean people build platforms on nurturing anger uh people platforms on nurturing anger uh people platforms on nurturing anger uh people build brands on it talk radio across the build brands on it talk radio across the build brands on it talk radio across the board and all all of that Jesus is board and all all of that Jesus is board and all all of that Jesus is saying is inconsistent with the way of saying is inconsistent with the way of saying is inconsistent with the way of the the the Kingdom H so what do you do I mean I am Kingdom H so what do you do I mean I am Kingdom H so what do you do I mean I am I'm trying very hard you know the joke I'm trying very hard you know the joke I'm trying very hard you know the joke in inside my little company is we're in inside my little company is we're in inside my little company is we're trying to create a place for the good trying to create a place for the good trying to create a place for the good people on the internet where we treat people on the internet where we treat people on the internet where we treat each other with respect and civility etc each other with respect and civility etc each other with respect and civility etc etc what do you do if you you find etc what do you do if you you find etc what do you do if you you find yourself preaching against things being yourself preaching against things being yourself preaching against things being against sort of what Jeff Henderson says against sort of what Jeff Henderson says against sort of what Jeff Henderson says right we want to be known by what we're right we want to be known by what we're right we want to be known by what we're for not by what we're against but often for not by what we're against but often for not by what we're against but often it's the it's the it's the opposite how do you break that pattern opposite how do you break that pattern opposite how do you break that pattern that cycle that addiction to that cycle that addiction to that cycle that addiction to outrage I think so much of the outrage outrage I think so much of the outrage outrage I think so much of the outrage we we we feel many times is rooted in fear that feel many times is rooted in fear that feel many times is rooted in fear that lives deep within us uh untended to fear lives deep within us uh untended to fear lives deep within us uh untended to fear um and and so the outrage of this group um and and so the outrage of this group um and and so the outrage of this group of people are taking over I mean if you of people are taking over I mean if you of people are taking over I mean if you if you were to peel back that onion a if you were to peel back that onion a if you were to peel back that onion a little bit um there is a level of fear a little bit um there is a level of fear a little bit um there is a level of fear a level of blind spots that we carry so I

level of blind spots that we carry so I level of blind spots that we carry so I think I think first of all it it think I think first of all it it think I think first of all it it requires us to grow in um kind of a requires us to grow in um kind of a requires us to grow in um kind of a living and awareness about the ways we living and awareness about the ways we living and awareness about the ways we have been formed by our surrounding have been formed by our surrounding have been formed by our surrounding culture every day we're being formed in culture every day we're being formed in culture every day we're being formed in one way or another and I think the one way or another and I think the one way or another and I think the honest Christian the honest follower of honest Christian the honest follower of honest Christian the honest follower of Jesus would take inventory on a regular Jesus would take inventory on a regular Jesus would take inventory on a regular basis to say to what degree is my life basis to say to what degree is my life basis to say to what degree is my life modeling what Jesus is saying in The modeling what Jesus is saying in The modeling what Jesus is saying in The Sermon on the Mount to what degree is my Sermon on the Mount to what degree is my Sermon on the Mount to what degree is my life modeling what Paul is saying in the life modeling what Paul is saying in the life modeling what Paul is saying in the fruit of the spirit I think we need on a fruit of the spirit I think we need on a fruit of the spirit I think we need on a regular basis this this um Frameworks regular basis this this um Frameworks regular basis this this um Frameworks and language to help us put our life and language to help us put our life and language to help us put our life against to say this is what it means to against to say this is what it means to against to say this is what it means to be a follower of Jesus and I tell you be a follower of Jesus and I tell you be a follower of Jesus and I tell you what I the i i i contend Carrie that the what I the i i i contend Carrie that the what I the i i i contend Carrie that the sermon of the mount is the most sermon of the mount is the most sermon of the mount is the most important set of teachings in the Bible important set of teachings in the Bible important set of teachings in the Bible as relates to faithfulness of Jesus and as relates to faithfulness of Jesus and as relates to faithfulness of Jesus and if that is true relatively speaking it if that is true relatively speaking it if that is true relatively speaking it might be the most might be the most might be the most under uh uh uh you know preached uh under uh uh uh you know preached uh under uh uh uh you know preached uh under contemplated set of teachings in under contemplated set of teachings in under contemplated set of teachings in the entire Bible and misapplied and the entire Bible and misapplied and the entire Bible and misapplied and misapplied 100% 100% And so uh I think misapplied 100% 100% And so uh I think misapplied 100% 100% And so uh I think part of it begins with to our own part of it begins with to our own part of it begins with to our own interior interior interior examination which when you're really examination which when you're really examination which when you're really angry and outraged um it's often very angry and outraged um it's often very angry and outraged um it's often very difficult which is why back to community difficult which is why back to community difficult which is why back to community back to friendships you start we started back to friendships you start we started back to friendships you start we started out by saying how do you protect your out by saying how do you protect your out by saying how do you protect your own soul and your own Integrity I need a own soul and your own Integrity I need a own soul and your own Integrity I need a lot of relationships around me to do lot of relationships around me to do lot of relationships around me to do that and um spiritual director friends

that and um spiritual director friends that and um spiritual director friends Rosie mentors Elders I need a lot around Rosie mentors Elders I need a lot around Rosie mentors Elders I need a lot around me to help me from going down a me to help me from going down a me to help me from going down a particular Road it's interesting you particular Road it's interesting you particular Road it's interesting you know I hadn't thought about this before know I hadn't thought about this before know I hadn't thought about this before but when I think about that circle but when I think about that circle but when I think about that circle around me around me around me outrage people don't last long in my outrage people don't last long in my outrage people don't last long in my circle if somebody's driven by outrage circle if somebody's driven by outrage circle if somebody's driven by outrage you know they're always upset about this you know they're always upset about this you know they're always upset about this they're always upset about that they're they're always upset about that they're they're always upset about that they're going on a rant about this I I I don't I going on a rant about this I I I don't I going on a rant about this I I I don't I really yeah that's really interesting I really yeah that's really interesting I really yeah that's really interesting I didn't think about how Community shapes didn't think about how Community shapes didn't think about how Community shapes that on the other hand if every text that on the other hand if every text that on the other hand if every text message you're getting is somebody who's message you're getting is somebody who's message you're getting is somebody who's upset about something you're going to upset about something you're going to upset about something you're going to get outraged too yeah and the tension get outraged too yeah and the tension get outraged too yeah and the tension that we're holding is how do we name the that we're holding is how do we name the that we're holding is how do we name the particular injustices of the world the particular injustices of the world the particular injustices of the world the particular pain points in the world the particular pain points in the world the particular pain points in the world the particular ways that people are particular ways that people are particular ways that people are suffering in the world in a way that is suffering in the world in a way that is suffering in the world in a way that is animated uh not simply by a kind of animated uh not simply by a kind of animated uh not simply by a kind of outrage but fueled by compassion fueled outrage but fueled by compassion fueled outrage but fueled by compassion fueled by love where the very nature of the by love where the very nature of the by love where the very nature of the ways we are trying to address something ways we are trying to address something ways we are trying to address something um has a different tenor to it and I um has a different tenor to it and I um has a different tenor to it and I think ultimately that's what's going to think ultimately that's what's going to think ultimately that's what's going to last the love that we have socially last the love that we have socially last the love that we have socially individually that's what's ultimately individually that's what's ultimately individually that's what's ultimately going what that's what ultimately the going what that's what ultimately the going what that's what ultimately the last well you argue that you know The last well you argue that you know The last well you argue that you know The Sermon on the Mount is probably the most Sermon on the Mount is probably the most Sermon on the Mount is probably the most important teaching of Jesus we have it important teaching of Jesus we have it important teaching of Jesus we have it also explains him the best if you want also explains him the best if you want also explains him the best if you want to yeah you know open the kimono so to to yeah you know open the kimono so to to yeah you know open the kimono so to speak and have a look at what is fueling speak and have a look at what is fueling speak and have a look at what is fueling Jesus like what are the principles the Jesus like what are the principles the Jesus like what are the principles the values that's what you'll discover and

values that's what you'll discover and values that's what you'll discover and that's what made him so countercultural that's what made him so countercultural that's what made him so countercultural um anything else on the list I've got a um anything else on the list I've got a um anything else on the list I've got a couple that I would go to but but any couple that I would go to but but any couple that I would go to but but any favorite of yours that you want to favorite of yours that you want to favorite of yours that you want to unpack I'll briefly mention too so money unpack I'll briefly mention too so money unpack I'll briefly mention too so money Jesus Jesus Jesus interestingly enough says that money is interestingly enough says that money is interestingly enough says that money is not a neutral tool but a rival God and not a neutral tool but a rival God and not a neutral tool but a rival God and uh it's very you know it's usually the uh it's very you know it's usually the uh it's very you know it's usually the the Bible says the love of money is the the Bible says the love of money is the the Bible says the love of money is the root of all evil that's true that's in root of all evil that's true that's in root of all evil that's true that's in there but it makes it can almost make it there but it makes it can almost make it there but it makes it can almost make it seem as if money is just this neutral seem as if money is just this neutral seem as if money is just this neutral thing uh just waiting to be used for thing uh just waiting to be used for thing uh just waiting to be used for good or for bad and I think the way good or for bad and I think the way good or for bad and I think the way Jesus describes Mam and money is like Jesus describes Mam and money is like Jesus describes Mam and money is like this this is like a power and this this is like a power and this this is like a power and principality uh it's it's productive principality uh it's it's productive principality uh it's it's productive it's a rival God and I think we would do it's a rival God and I think we would do it's a rival God and I think we would do well to begin to see money not just as well to begin to see money not just as well to begin to see money not just as this neutral thing but as actually a this neutral thing but as actually a this neutral thing but as actually a seductive power I think that's what seductive power I think that's what seductive power I think that's what Jesus is helping us with and then Jesus is helping us with and then Jesus is helping us with and then anxiety you know Jesus talks about anxiety you know Jesus talks about anxiety you know Jesus talks about excessive worry that we carry and I excessive worry that we carry and I excessive worry that we carry and I think in Jesus naming our excessive think in Jesus naming our excessive think in Jesus naming our excessive worry that we all feel as human beings worry that we all feel as human beings worry that we all feel as human beings what he does first and foremost is he's what he does first and foremost is he's what he does first and foremost is he's trying to help us get a better view of trying to help us get a better view of trying to help us get a better view of who God is is you know aw tzer has that who God is is you know aw tzer has that who God is is you know aw tzer has that famous line that says what comes to our famous line that says what comes to our famous line that says what comes to our mind when we think about God is the most mind when we think about God is the most mind when we think about God is the most important thing about us uh Jesus has important thing about us uh Jesus has important thing about us uh Jesus has come to heal the false images of God come to heal the false images of God come to heal the false images of God that we carry in our minds that often that we carry in our minds that often that we carry in our minds that often contribute to the kind of worry and contribute to the kind of worry and contribute to the kind of worry and anxiety that we carry deep down in our anxiety that we carry deep down in our anxiety that we carry deep down in our souls and so Jesus has given brandan

souls and so Jesus has given brandan souls and so Jesus has given brandan Manning once said the the primary Manning once said the the primary Manning once said the the primary revelation of Jesus is presenting God as revelation of Jesus is presenting God as revelation of Jesus is presenting God as ABA and I think as we begin to see God ABA and I think as we begin to see God ABA and I think as we begin to see God from a different perspective our images from a different perspective our images from a different perspective our images of God healed in our own minds of God healed in our own minds of God healed in our own minds um I think that can begin the process of um I think that can begin the process of um I think that can begin the process of rooting out the kind of excessive worry rooting out the kind of excessive worry rooting out the kind of excessive worry that often dominates our lives so to that often dominates our lives so to that often dominates our lives so to jump back to money I'd love to spend a jump back to money I'd love to spend a jump back to money I'd love to spend a little more time on that um I mean you little more time on that um I mean you little more time on that um I mean you started with a personal story saying you started with a personal story saying you started with a personal story saying you know when you and Rosie were young you know when you and Rosie were young you know when you and Rosie were young you made some decisions that led to you know made some decisions that led to you know made some decisions that led to you know some financial hardship for you money is some financial hardship for you money is some financial hardship for you money is not neutral right it can and greed we've not neutral right it can and greed we've not neutral right it can and greed we've seen greed get a hold of a lot of people seen greed get a hold of a lot of people seen greed get a hold of a lot of people what what do you do with money like what what what do you do with money like what what what do you do with money like what is a healthy relationship with it or can is a healthy relationship with it or can is a healthy relationship with it or can you have a healthy relationship with you have a healthy relationship with you have a healthy relationship with money yeah I I I think we do I think money yeah I I I think we do I think money yeah I I I think we do I think it's one of those things where how I it's one of those things where how I it's one of those things where how I started at the beginning saying my soul started at the beginning saying my soul started at the beginning saying my soul is in danger I I realize every time I is in danger I I realize every time I is in danger I I realize every time I get paid every time I I speak at a get paid every time I I speak at a get paid every time I I speak at a gathering and I get paid for it uh I gathering and I get paid for it uh I gathering and I get paid for it uh I sign a book deal my soul's in danger um sign a book deal my soul's in danger um sign a book deal my soul's in danger um at this time I think so number one I at this time I think so number one I at this time I think so number one I think just naming that reality I think think just naming that reality I think think just naming that reality I think is really is really is really important secondly because of my own important secondly because of my own important secondly because of my own story story story I did not come from a family that of I did not come from a family that of I did not come from a family that of that had means uh and so I grew up that had means uh and so I grew up that had means uh and so I grew up actually rather on the low end of the actually rather on the low end of the actually rather on the low end of the economic spectrum um and so now that economic spectrum um and so now that economic spectrum um and so now that things are a little bit different than things are a little bit different than things are a little bit different than how I grew up I have to like really how I grew up I have to like really how I grew up I have to like really contend with okay what does it mean now

contend with okay what does it mean now contend with okay what does it mean now to manage this really well so number one to manage this really well so number one to manage this really well so number one Rosie and I have needed another area of Rosie and I have needed another area of Rosie and I have needed another area of help we need financial advisors and help we need financial advisors and help we need financial advisors and people to say this is what you do even people to say this is what you do even people to say this is what you do even like you know the the practical wisdom like you know the the practical wisdom like you know the the practical wisdom of Rich if you sign a a book of Rich if you sign a a book of Rich if you sign a a book deal uh or if you speak at an event just deal uh or if you speak at an event just deal uh or if you speak at an event just you better make sure that a good you better make sure that a good you better make sure that a good percentage of that is going to taxes percentage of that is going to taxes percentage of that is going to taxes like um and you're setting that aside like um and you're setting that aside like um and you're setting that aside like if I didn't have that information like if I didn't have that information like if I didn't have that information uh or someone not to guide me and Mentor uh or someone not to guide me and Mentor uh or someone not to guide me and Mentor me along those ways I'd be in big me along those ways I'd be in big me along those ways I'd be in big trouble right now uh and I think um trouble right now uh and I think um trouble right now uh and I think um having another layer of protection having another layer of protection having another layer of protection around me in people like that is really around me in people like that is really around me in people like that is really important and then there's just the you important and then there's just the you important and then there's just the you know to what degree am I practicing know to what degree am I practicing know to what degree am I practicing generosity uh to what degree are we not generosity uh to what degree are we not generosity uh to what degree are we not are we trying to live within our means are we trying to live within our means are we trying to live within our means and and not try to go above just because and and not try to go above just because and and not try to go above just because we have more that doesn't mean God is we have more that doesn't mean God is we have more that doesn't mean God is calling us to uh spend more in a way calling us to uh spend more in a way calling us to uh spend more in a way that's irresponsible and so back to our that's irresponsible and so back to our that's irresponsible and so back to our financial meetings that Rosie and are financial meetings that Rosie and are financial meetings that Rosie and are having on a regular basis you know we're having on a regular basis you know we're having on a regular basis you know we're looking at to what the you know we want looking at to what the you know we want looking at to what the you know we want to be more generous every year we want to be more generous every year we want to be more generous every year we want to grow in generosity and giving away to grow in generosity and giving away to grow in generosity and giving away what God hasn't has given us every year what God hasn't has given us every year what God hasn't has given us every year we want to and not just bless uh you we want to and not just bless uh you we want to and not just bless uh you know give in such a way where it's going know give in such a way where it's going know give in such a way where it's going to help our taxes given away where we to help our taxes given away where we to help our taxes given away where we can't benefit from uh taxes and such and can't benefit from uh taxes and such and can't benefit from uh taxes and such and so what does it mean to just give to so what does it mean to just give to so what does it mean to just give to people who are just in need or support people who are just in need or support people who are just in need or support people who we believe in um and so that

people who we believe in um and so that people who we believe in um and so that that's a ongoing conversation M that's a ongoing conversation M that's a ongoing conversation M literally monthly uh that we're having literally monthly uh that we're having literally monthly uh that we're having in our home around how we're stewarding in our home around how we're stewarding in our home around how we're stewarding what God has entrusted to us what's at what God has entrusted to us what's at what God has entrusted to us what's at stake when we look at the list and if we stake when we look at the list and if we stake when we look at the list and if we go on being angry use our words against go on being angry use our words against go on being angry use our words against people uh become desirous misuse money people uh become desirous misuse money people uh become desirous misuse money yeah high anxiety yeah high anxiety yeah high anxiety judgmental uh you know not loving our judgmental uh you know not loving our judgmental uh you know not loving our enemies what's at stake for the church enemies what's at stake for the church enemies what's at stake for the church because I mean the research has been out because I mean the research has been out because I mean the research has been out there for years going back 20 years this there for years going back 20 years this there for years going back 20 years this is what people think Christians are is what people think Christians are is what people think Christians are people outside the church think we are people outside the church think we are people outside the church think we are the these things so what's at stake in the these things so what's at stake in the these things so what's at stake in your mind if we don't get this right I your mind if we don't get this right I your mind if we don't get this right I think um I've never said it this way think um I've never said it this way think um I've never said it this way Carrie this is I think what's at stake Carrie this is I think what's at stake Carrie this is I think what's at stake is if we persist in this um the embodied is if we persist in this um the embodied is if we persist in this um the embodied presence of Jesus in the world presence of Jesus in the world presence of Jesus in the world diminishes and what the the the world diminishes and what the the the world diminishes and what the the the world desperately needs is the embodied desperately needs is the embodied desperately needs is the embodied presence of Jesus through Jesus presence of Jesus through Jesus presence of Jesus through Jesus followers to live in this way is not to followers to live in this way is not to followers to live in this way is not to be consistent with Jesus and like I said be consistent with Jesus and like I said be consistent with Jesus and like I said to be you can be a Christian in name or to be you can be a Christian in name or to be you can be a Christian in name or trust in Christ and be not on the Narrow trust in Christ and be not on the Narrow trust in Christ and be not on the Narrow Path what's ultimately a stake is we are Path what's ultimately a stake is we are Path what's ultimately a stake is we are compromising the very essence of what it compromising the very essence of what it compromising the very essence of what it means to be a follower of Jesus and what means to be a follower of Jesus and what means to be a follower of Jesus and what it means to Bear witness to his presence it means to Bear witness to his presence it means to Bear witness to his presence in the world and uh and that has all in the world and uh and that has all in the world and uh and that has all kinds of implications around uh younger

kinds of implications around uh younger kinds of implications around uh younger folks who want to come to church or not folks who want to come to church or not folks who want to come to church or not and be followers of Jesus has all kinds and be followers of Jesus has all kinds and be followers of Jesus has all kinds of implications for the ways that of implications for the ways that of implications for the ways that uh the teachings of Christianity uh the teachings of Christianity uh the teachings of Christianity especially as embodied in Jesus are especially as embodied in Jesus are especially as embodied in Jesus are reflected in our social World um to what reflected in our social World um to what reflected in our social World um to what degree um are people coming to a saving degree um are people coming to a saving degree um are people coming to a saving knowledge of Jesus and having the world knowledge of Jesus and having the world knowledge of Jesus and having the world impacted around them I think everything impacted around them I think everything impacted around them I think everything is at stake what have we not touched on um stake what have we not touched on um that you think we need to or could touch that you think we need to or could touch that you think we need to or could touch on in this on in this on in this conversation you know um I think I think about I mean just changes in culture the about I mean just changes in culture the about I mean just changes in culture the way discipleship might be different way discipleship might be different way discipleship might be different today um than in previous years uh today um than in previous years uh today um than in previous years uh specifically because of uh increasing specifically because of uh increasing specifically because of uh increasing Advantage you know advances in Advantage you know advances in Advantage you know advances in technology and what that's doing to us technology and what that's doing to us technology and what that's doing to us um um the level of distraction the level um um the level of distraction the level um um the level of distraction the level of of of superficiality um the impatient the superficiality um the impatient the superficiality um the impatient the impatient ways that pastors lead others impatient ways that pastors lead others impatient ways that pastors lead others you know I'm very passionate Carrie you know I'm very passionate Carrie you know I'm very passionate Carrie about because of my mistakes how do we about because of my mistakes how do we about because of my mistakes how do we Pastor communities through big Pastor communities through big Pastor communities through big issues uh like politics like sexuality issues uh like politics like sexuality issues uh like politics like sexuality like race how how do we like race how how do we like race how how do we lead communities in some of these big lead communities in some of these big lead communities in some of these big issues in ways that are patient issues in ways that are patient issues in ways that are patient god-honoring god-honoring god-honoring um I mean that's something that comes to

um I mean that's something that comes to um I mean that's something that comes to mind on a regular basis for me yeah you mind on a regular basis for me yeah you mind on a regular basis for me yeah you did mention technology you know and did mention technology you know and did mention technology you know and under the subtext of your reply I think under the subtext of your reply I think under the subtext of your reply I think I hear I hear I hear AI where where do you see that going AI where where do you see that going AI where where do you see that going what are your fears when you look out what are your fears when you look out what are your fears when you look out over the next five years what do you over the next five years what do you over the next five years what do you think could happen to think could happen to think could happen to us I think we're already seeing I mean us I think we're already seeing I mean us I think we're already seeing I mean the level of you the level of you the level of you know in one of my books good and know in one of my books good and know in one of my books good and beautiful and kind I write about powers beautiful and kind I write about powers beautiful and kind I write about powers and principalities Ephesians six and principalities Ephesians six and principalities Ephesians six language and that feels like oh we language and that feels like oh we language and that feels like oh we talking about demons now behind every talking about demons now behind every talking about demons now behind every Bush what what I when I mean when I Bush what what I when I mean when I Bush what what I when I mean when I Define powers and principalities I'm Define powers and principalities I'm Define powers and principalities I'm talking about kind of Nefarious forces talking about kind of Nefarious forces talking about kind of Nefarious forces that get caught up in individuals that get caught up in individuals that get caught up in individuals ideologies and institutions with three ideologies and institutions with three ideologies and institutions with three goals uh deception goals uh deception goals uh deception depersonalization and depersonalization and depersonalization and division um any powers and princip what division um any powers and princip what division um any powers and princip what social media is a power and principality social media is a power and principality social media is a power and principality that uh at it at its best it's helping that uh at it at its best it's helping that uh at it at its best it's helping to Foster good connection some of my to Foster good connection some of my to Foster good connection some of my best friends I've met through social best friends I've met through social best friends I've met through social media and some good things happened media and some good things happened media and some good things happened there but when it's wrapped around these there but when it's wrapped around these there but when it's wrapped around these negative nefarious forces what you find negative nefarious forces what you find negative nefarious forces what you find is deception depersonalization and is deception depersonalization and is deception depersonalization and Division I think at its worst that's Division I think at its worst that's Division I think at its worst that's what that's Ai and Technology generally what that's Ai and Technology generally what that's Ai and Technology generally we're moving down a road of Deceit what we're moving down a road of Deceit what we're moving down a road of Deceit what is real we're moving down a road of the is real we're moving down a road of the is real we're moving down a road of the personalization uh where people are no personalization uh where people are no personalization uh where people are no longer um seen as image bearers of God longer um seen as image bearers of God longer um seen as image bearers of God they are reduced to the things that we they are reduced to the things that we they are reduced to the things that we hate most about them we don't see people

hate most about them we don't see people hate most about them we don't see people anymore individuals and then there's the anymore individuals and then there's the anymore individuals and then there's the division that's already part of our Liv division that's already part of our Liv division that's already part of our Liv experience right now that will only experience right now that will only experience right now that will only intensify uh and so I'm not sure exactly intensify uh and so I'm not sure exactly intensify uh and so I'm not sure exactly what needs to happen from more of a what needs to happen from more of a what needs to happen from more of a policy perspective in terms of how we're policy perspective in terms of how we're policy perspective in terms of how we're governing this appropriately um but I do governing this appropriately um but I do governing this appropriately um but I do see that's where we are and increasingly see that's where we are and increasingly see that's where we are and increasingly that's where we're headed rich this is really good what headed rich this is really good what would you say to Young leaders who you would you say to Young leaders who you would you say to Young leaders who you know you and I kind of have that know you and I kind of have that know you and I kind of have that pre-digital memory a little bit we pre-digital memory a little bit we pre-digital memory a little bit we remember what it was like uh they've got remember what it was like uh they've got remember what it was like uh they've got a million options in front of them they a million options in front of them they a million options in front of them they have the world in front of them what do have the world in front of them what do have the world in front of them what do young leaders in particular really need young leaders in particular really need young leaders in particular really need to be paying attention to be paying attention to be paying attention to yeah in light of all these um Myriad to yeah in light of all these um Myriad to yeah in light of all these um Myriad of options and places they can go and I of options and places they can go and I of options and places they can go and I understand this you know to use inag understand this you know to use inag understand this you know to use inag language I'm an inag 7 so um when I'm language I'm an inag 7 so um when I'm language I'm an inag 7 so um when I'm not in my healthy place I want to be not in my healthy place I want to be not in my healthy place I want to be everywhere at the same time I want to everywhere at the same time I want to everywhere at the same time I want to taste every food I want to be everywhere taste every food I want to be everywhere taste every food I want to be everywhere so it's hard for me to be still and so it's hard for me to be still and so it's hard for me to be still and centered which is why the contemplative centered which is why the contemplative centered which is why the contemplative life is so important to me because it life is so important to me because it life is so important to me because it helps me to be more centered than where helps me to be more centered than where helps me to be more centered than where I would typically go um I remember in I would typically go um I remember in I would typically go um I remember in college I never forgot this quote think college I never forgot this quote think college I never forgot this quote think it was by Greek uh mathematician um it was by Greek uh mathematician um it was by Greek uh mathematician um Archimedes I believe who said Give me a Archimedes I believe who said Give me a Archimedes I believe who said Give me a place to place to place to stand and a lever long enough and I'll stand and a lever long enough and I'll stand and a lever long enough and I'll move the world and um I really like that move the world and um I really like that move the world and um I really like that because he's really talking about living

because he's really talking about living because he's really talking about living from a centered place and what could from a centered place and what could from a centered place and what could happen when you get centered and so I happen when you get centered and so I happen when you get centered and so I think think think for young for young for young people I have a discernment question people I have a discernment question people I have a discernment question that I heard number of years ago that that I heard number of years ago that that I heard number of years ago that has helped me with all of the options has helped me with all of the options has helped me with all of the options that are before me and I think the the that are before me and I think the the that are before me and I think the the question is which path makes me most question is which path makes me most question is which path makes me most generous with my generous with my generous with my life if you're thinking about all the life if you're thinking about all the life if you're thinking about all the Myriad of options before you and you're Myriad of options before you and you're Myriad of options before you and you're trying to like narrow it down to what trying to like narrow it down to what trying to like narrow it down to what what what should I be giving my time to what what should I be giving my time to what what should I be giving my time to what should I be giving my energy to uh what should I be giving my energy to uh what should I be giving my energy to uh what what does it look like to live a what what does it look like to live a what what does it look like to live a more which path makes me most I'm not more which path makes me most I'm not more which path makes me most I'm not just talking about financially generous just talking about financially generous just talking about financially generous I'm talking about generous with your I'm talking about generous with your I'm talking about generous with your soul your energy um generous with your soul your energy um generous with your soul your energy um generous with your life um and then back to a Theology of life um and then back to a Theology of life um and then back to a Theology of limits we can't do it all uh and so what limits we can't do it all uh and so what limits we can't do it all uh and so what does it mean to use that potentially as does it mean to use that potentially as does it mean to use that potentially as a framework a rubric um to help me make a framework a rubric um to help me make a framework a rubric um to help me make decisions that lead to me living with decisions that lead to me living with decisions that lead to me living with great joy and honoring God in the great joy and honoring God in the great joy and honoring God in the process well the book is called The process well the book is called The process well the book is called The Narrow Path it's available every where Narrow Path it's available every where Narrow Path it's available every where uh we will not be checking the Amazon uh we will not be checking the Amazon uh we will not be checking the Amazon rankings on this one right right I might rankings on this one right right I might rankings on this one right right I might check on day one car day one just day check on day one car day one just day check on day one car day one just day one only once only once yeah no I get it one only once only once yeah no I get it one only once only once yeah no I get it that is such a good spirit check for me that is such a good spirit check for me that is such a good spirit check for me too gosh I can become numbers consumed too gosh I can become numbers consumed too gosh I can become numbers consumed like it's not good where can leaders like it's not good where can leaders like it's not good where can leaders find you online these days where you find you online these days where you find you online these days where you hanging hanging hanging out yeah um still hanging out on Twitter out yeah um still hanging out on Twitter out yeah um still hanging out on Twitter or X where we're calling it now and or X where we're calling it now and or X where we're calling it now and Instagram at Rich votus um for folks who

Instagram at Rich votus um for folks who Instagram at Rich votus um for folks who want to learn more about uh various want to learn more about uh various want to learn more about uh various content on content on content on uh writing like books or upcoming video uh writing like books or upcoming video uh writing like books or upcoming video courses on preaching uh things along courses on preaching uh things along courses on preaching uh things along those lines uh just richel lotus.com uh those lines uh just richel lotus.com uh those lines uh just richel lotus.com uh those are the places that I'm testing those are the places that I'm testing those are the places that I'm testing out materials or just putting stuff out out materials or just putting stuff out out materials or just putting stuff out well until next time rich thank you so well until next time rich thank you so well until next time rich thank you so much krie always a joy to be with you