The Surprising Way to Fund the Local Church with Mark Batterson

I had a harder time praying for churches I had a harder time praying for churches four blocks away than four states away four blocks away than four states away four blocks away than four states away and and part of it was just like this and and part of it was just like this and and part of it was just like this competitive streak that you know I competitive streak that you know I competitive streak that you know I played basketball in college and and and played basketball in college and and and played basketball in college and and and H how do you get past that well here's H how do you get past that well here's H how do you get past that well here's what happened um we made a decision any what happened um we made a decision any what happened um we made a decision any church in the DC area that's preaching church in the DC area that's preaching church in the DC area that's preaching and practicing the gospel we want to be and practicing the gospel we want to be and practicing the gospel we want to be shareholders we want to get in on the shareholders we want to get in on the shareholders we want to get in on the IPO welcome to my podcast it's K newoff IPO welcome to my podcast it's K newoff IPO welcome to my podcast it's K newoff here hey thank you for joining us and if here hey thank you for joining us and if here hey thank you for joining us and if it's your first time make sure you it's your first time make sure you it's your first time make sure you subscribe to the channel you'll never subscribe to the channel you'll never subscribe to the channel you'll never miss anything and what you're going to miss anything and what you're going to miss anything and what you're going to get today is a rare dish I'm talking to get today is a rare dish I'm talking to get today is a rare dish I'm talking to Mark Batterson who you probably know Mark Batterson who you probably know Mark Batterson who you probably know you've read his books New York Times you've read his books New York Times you've read his books New York Times bestselling author but we're going to bestselling author but we're going to bestselling author but we're going to talk about his business model he has talk about his business model he has talk about his business model he has approached church planting very approached church planting very approached church planting very differently than almost anyone I know he differently than almost anyone I know he differently than almost anyone I know he was a Pioneer in this regard and early was a Pioneer in this regard and early was a Pioneer in this regard and early on he didn't build a building he bought on he didn't build a building he bought on he didn't build a building he bought a business so a lot of you are a business so a lot of you are a business so a lot of you are bivocational pastors a lot of you are bivocational pastors a lot of you are bivocational pastors a lot of you are trying to figure out funding for trying to figure out funding for trying to figure out funding for churches you're going to love this churches you're going to love this churches you're going to love this episode it's a different side of Mark episode it's a different side of Mark episode it's a different side of Mark Batterson I really enjoyed it and I Batterson I really enjoyed it and I Batterson I really enjoyed it and I think you'll find it incredibly think you'll find it incredibly think you'll find it incredibly encouraging and maybe a bit of a encouraging and maybe a bit of a encouraging and maybe a bit of a different model so uh make sure you different model so uh make sure you different model so uh make sure you subscribe and right now we're going to subscribe and right now we're going to subscribe and right now we're going to dive into some messages from our dive into some messages from our dive into some messages from our carefully chosen partners then we'll carefully chosen partners then we'll carefully chosen partners then we'll jump right into my conversation with jump right into my conversation with jump right into my conversation with Mark Batterson this episode is brought Mark Batterson this episode is brought Mark Batterson this episode is brought to you by the art of leadership live hey to you by the art of leadership live hey to you by the art of leadership live hey if you are looking to level up your if you are looking to level up your if you are looking to level up your leadership and take your church to the leadership and take your church to the leadership and take your church to the next level in September setember I am next level in September setember I am next level in September setember I am hosting the art of leadership live in

hosting the art of leadership live in hosting the art of leadership live in Dallas an intimate Gathering of Dallas an intimate Gathering of Dallas an intimate Gathering of incredible leaders and over three really incredible leaders and over three really incredible leaders and over three really transformative days you're going to dive transformative days you're going to dive transformative days you're going to dive deep into your spiritual and emotional deep into your spiritual and emotional deep into your spiritual and emotional health as a leader you'll get strategies health as a leader you'll get strategies health as a leader you'll get strategies for growing your church and reaching for growing your church and reaching for growing your church and reaching people and creating a much healthier people and creating a much healthier people and creating a much healthier future for you and for the people you future for you and for the people you future for you and for the people you lead so this isn't a conference where lead so this isn't a conference where lead so this isn't a conference where you just sit and listen to Talking Heads you just sit and listen to Talking Heads you just sit and listen to Talking Heads for eight hours a day it's super for eight hours a day it's super for eight hours a day it's super interactive deeply practical and interactive deeply practical and interactive deeply practical and designed to move you forward so we've designed to move you forward so we've designed to move you forward so we've worked really hard on getting the blend worked really hard on getting the blend worked really hard on getting the blend of teaching connection and free time of teaching connection and free time of teaching connection and free time well so you've got the space to learn well so you've got the space to learn well so you've got the space to learn process and create a plan on how to act process and create a plan on how to act process and create a plan on how to act to what matters most to you last year I to what matters most to you last year I to what matters most to you last year I was really impressed with the quality of was really impressed with the quality of was really impressed with the quality of leaders who are in the room uh blew me leaders who are in the room uh blew me leaders who are in the room uh blew me away and that's because it's an away and that's because it's an away and that's because it's an application only event you got to apply application only event you got to apply application only event you got to apply to get in and you can get in your to get in and you can get in your to get in and you can get in your application with super early bird application with super early bird application with super early bird pricing depending on when you're pricing depending on when you're pricing depending on when you're listening to this only a few more days listening to this only a few more days listening to this only a few more days left for that level of pricing so go to left for that level of pricing so go to left for that level of pricing so go to the artof leadership live.com to grab the artof leadership live.com to grab the artof leadership live.com to grab your spot and apply that's the artof your spot and apply that's the artof your spot and apply that's the artof leadership live.com and one final note leadership live.com and one final note leadership live.com and one final note if you're an all access member who's if you're an all access member who's if you're an all access member who's already part of the artof leadership already part of the artof leadership already part of the artof leadership academy and you want to attend you can academy and you want to attend you can academy and you want to attend you can skip the application process get in on a skip the application process get in on a skip the application process get in on a exclusive member rate just sign into the exclusive member rate just sign into the exclusive member rate just sign into the app or your account in the art of app or your account in the art of app or your account in the art of leadership academy learn more and get leadership academy learn more and get leadership academy learn more and get the special registration link this the special registration link this the special registration link this episode epis is brought to you by 10 by episode epis is brought to you by 10 by episode epis is brought to you by 10 by 10 so pastors and church leaders you

10 so pastors and church leaders you 10 so pastors and church leaders you know what changes are needed in your know what changes are needed in your know what changes are needed in your church but the question is how do you church but the question is how do you church but the question is how do you make them happen well you probably need make them happen well you probably need make them happen well you probably need a process that unites groups and a process that unites groups and a process that unites groups and generations not one that forces you to generations not one that forces you to generations not one that forces you to choose right that's why I'm excited choose right that's why I'm excited choose right that's why I'm excited about future Focus Church it's a new about future Focus Church it's a new about future Focus Church it's a new book by Cara Powell Jake Moulder and book by Cara Powell Jake Moulder and book by Cara Powell Jake Moulder and Raymond Chang their team at the Fuller Raymond Chang their team at the Fuller Raymond Chang their team at the Fuller youth Institute has helped over a youth Institute has helped over a youth Institute has helped over a thousand churches navigate change over thousand churches navigate change over thousand churches navigate change over the last 10 years and this book is the last 10 years and this book is the last 10 years and this book is packed with the tested strategies that packed with the tested strategies that packed with the tested strategies that are going to help you do the same your are going to help you do the same your are going to help you do the same your Church's best days are ahead and this Church's best days are ahead and this Church's best days are ahead and this book is going to help you get there so book is going to help you get there so book is going to help you get there so get your copy today at Future Focus get your copy today at Future Focus get your copy today at Future Focus church.com that's future Focus church.com that's future Focus church.com that's future Focus church.com it's always a good church.com it's always a good church.com it's always a good conversation with Mark Batterson in the conversation with Mark Batterson in the conversation with Mark Batterson in the house Mark good to have you back ah house Mark good to have you back ah house Mark good to have you back ah Carrie fun here we go again yeah so I Carrie fun here we go again yeah so I Carrie fun here we go again yeah so I told you I want to take a totally told you I want to take a totally told you I want to take a totally different track this time and I want to different track this time and I want to different track this time and I want to talk about talk about talk about entrepreneurship and the kingdom I get entrepreneurship and the kingdom I get entrepreneurship and the kingdom I get so many questions from Young leaders who so many questions from Young leaders who so many questions from Young leaders who are bivocational you're not technically are bivocational you're not technically are bivocational you're not technically BVO like you've always been a full-time BVO like you've always been a full-time BVO like you've always been a full-time pastor but you have a revenue model I pastor but you have a revenue model I pastor but you have a revenue model I mean you're in a very expensive city I mean you're in a very expensive city I mean you're in a very expensive city I guess was D DC cheap in the 90s when you guess was D DC cheap in the 90s when you guess was D DC cheap in the 90s when you started uh Terry I'll answer it this way started uh Terry I'll answer it this way started uh Terry I'll answer it this way it was uh property was 10 million an it was uh property was 10 million an it was uh property was 10 million an acre and that was acre and that was acre and that was cheap WOW even in the 90s yeah there cheap WOW even in the 90s yeah there cheap WOW even in the 90s yeah there were five acres that went for sale right were five acres that went for sale right were five acres that went for sale right next to Union Station it sold for 50 next to Union Station it sold for 50 next to Union Station it sold for 50 million it's now the Security and

million it's now the Security and million it's now the Security and Exchange Commission uh which by the way Exchange Commission uh which by the way Exchange Commission uh which by the way is kitty corner to Ebenezer's coffee is kitty corner to Ebenezer's coffee is kitty corner to Ebenezer's coffee house which is one reason why uh house which is one reason why uh house which is one reason why uh location location location that coffee location location location that coffee location location location that coffee house has done so well incredible okay house has done so well incredible okay house has done so well incredible okay so it was always an expensive city you so it was always an expensive city you so it was always an expensive city you started in the mid 90s and there's an started in the mid 90s and there's an started in the mid 90s and there's an entrepreneurial side to NCC your church entrepreneurial side to NCC your church entrepreneurial side to NCC your church that I think people kind of know about that I think people kind of know about that I think people kind of know about but we don't explore a lot so um when but we don't explore a lot so um when but we don't explore a lot so um when did you first sense that you might have did you first sense that you might have did you first sense that you might have a different model to funding Ministry a different model to funding Ministry a different model to funding Ministry when was that part of the original when was that part of the original when was that part of the original Vision did you back yourself into it how Vision did you back yourself into it how Vision did you back yourself into it how did that work did that work did that work out well we we have a core conviction out well we we have a core conviction out well we we have a core conviction that there are ways of doing church that that there are ways of doing church that that there are ways of doing church that no one's thought of yet and I better put no one's thought of yet and I better put no one's thought of yet and I better put this out there kind of at the beginning this out there kind of at the beginning this out there kind of at the beginning we're we're we're orthodox in theology we're we're we're orthodox in theology we're we're we're orthodox in theology but we're we're pretty unorthodox in but we're we're pretty unorthodox in but we're we're pretty unorthodox in practice like we've always you know for practice like we've always you know for practice like we've always you know for many years meeting in movie theaters many years meeting in movie theaters many years meeting in movie theaters popcorn was our incense carry like popcorn was our incense carry like popcorn was our incense carry like that's how we how we did Church um and that's how we how we did Church um and that's how we how we did Church um and and I also want to say like I think our and I also want to say like I think our and I also want to say like I think our house of prayer on Thursday nights is house of prayer on Thursday nights is house of prayer on Thursday nights is the most important thing that we do um I the most important thing that we do um I the most important thing that we do um I love preaching the Bible uh these are love preaching the Bible uh these are love preaching the Bible uh these are you know these are things that I love to you know these are things that I love to you know these are things that I love to do but the the entrepreneu piece I just do but the the entrepreneu piece I just do but the the entrepreneu piece I just think um this is an original uh to me think um this is an original uh to me think um this is an original uh to me when when in doubt probably Craig

when when in doubt probably Craig when when in doubt probably Craig Rochelle said it Rochelle said it Rochelle said it right I'll just blows back up to Craig right I'll just blows back up to Craig right I'll just blows back up to Craig if you want to reach people no one's if you want to reach people no one's if you want to reach people no one's reaching you might have to do what no reaching you might have to do what no reaching you might have to do what no one's doing and uh so we we have a very one's doing and uh so we we have a very one's doing and uh so we we have a very currated philosophy of ministry that currated philosophy of ministry that currated philosophy of ministry that over the years um listen every Church over the years um listen every Church over the years um listen every Church ought to be great at the great ought to be great at the great ought to be great at the great commandment great at the Great commandment great at the Great commandment great at the Great Commission all of us ought to be making Commission all of us ought to be making Commission all of us ought to be making disciples that but but then every church disciples that but but then every church disciples that but but then every church has unique Church print and I think part has unique Church print and I think part has unique Church print and I think part of what is unique to us is that we of what is unique to us is that we of what is unique to us is that we always felt like if the kingdom of God always felt like if the kingdom of God always felt like if the kingdom of God had departments we would apply for had departments we would apply for had departments we would apply for research and development that's that's research and development that's that's research and development that's that's what Rings our Bell we love trying new what Rings our Bell we love trying new what Rings our Bell we love trying new things doing new things and and I get things doing new things and and I get things doing new things and and I get bored easily and so the multi-site model bored easily and so the multi-site model bored easily and so the multi-site model scratch that itch for a long time and scratch that itch for a long time and scratch that itch for a long time and and now uh real estate development and now uh real estate development and now uh real estate development launching uh different businesses launching uh different businesses launching uh different businesses Mission those are the things that kind Mission those are the things that kind Mission those are the things that kind of scratch a certain itch and and Carrie of scratch a certain itch and and Carrie of scratch a certain itch and and Carrie we're we're both Church planners right we're we're both Church planners right we're we're both Church planners right so there's this entrepreneurial Gene and so there's this entrepreneurial Gene and so there's this entrepreneurial Gene and there are different ways to scratch it there are different ways to scratch it there are different ways to scratch it some people start businesses some people some people start businesses some people some people start businesses some people start churches some people start you start churches some people start you start churches some people start you know uh whatever else uh but I think know uh whatever else uh but I think know uh whatever else uh but I think it's always been in our it's always been in our it's always been in our DNA yeah okay so when like did you have DNA yeah okay so when like did you have DNA yeah okay so when like did you have a funding model in mind you started in a funding model in mind you started in a funding model in mind you started in what year what year what year 199 six six yeah did you have a funding 199 six six yeah did you have a funding 199 six six yeah did you have a funding model in mind cuz I started in '95 a model in mind cuz I started in '95 a model in mind cuz I started in '95 a year before you and mine was ties and

year before you and mine was ties and year before you and mine was ties and offerings ties and offerings and that's offerings ties and offerings and that's offerings ties and offerings and that's basically how we did it uh but you you basically how we did it uh but you you basically how we did it uh but you you were already innovating so what was in were already innovating so what was in were already innovating so what was in your mind when you planted the church your mind when you planted the church your mind when you planted the church well in In fairness uh when we started well in In fairness uh when we started well in In fairness uh when we started we probably had the same mindset tie and we probably had the same mindset tie and we probably had the same mindset tie and offering and we we weren't offering and we we weren't offering and we we weren't self-supporting until year three into self-supporting until year three into self-supporting until year three into the launch and that that denomination the launch and that that denomination the launch and that that denomination behind you or a network or yeah we we behind you or a network or yeah we we behind you or a network or yeah we we had multiple networks um we we've always had multiple networks um we we've always had multiple networks um we we've always tried to affiliate with uh kind of a tried to affiliate with uh kind of a tried to affiliate with uh kind of a cross tribal line so to speak um and uh cross tribal line so to speak um and uh cross tribal line so to speak um and uh so pretty inter denominational in makeup so pretty inter denominational in makeup so pretty inter denominational in makeup but uh you know in terms of holding but uh you know in terms of holding but uh you know in terms of holding credentials with the Assemblies of God credentials with the Assemblies of God credentials with the Assemblies of God or uh over the years learning from so or uh over the years learning from so or uh over the years learning from so many different Church models so um yeah many different Church models so um yeah many different Church models so um yeah we we uh Diversified in that way okay so we we uh Diversified in that way okay so we we uh Diversified in that way okay so as a tithe and offering model I mean I as a tithe and offering model I mean I as a tithe and offering model I mean I still see it comes up on your social still see it comes up on your social still see it comes up on your social media account you know that first Sunday media account you know that first Sunday media account you know that first Sunday there's young mark what was it 14 people there's young mark what was it 14 people there's young mark what was it 14 people or something like that like it's 19 or something like that like it's 19 or something like that like it's 19 people pardon me I didn't mean to you people pardon me I didn't mean to you people pardon me I didn't mean to you know lower that attendance I know that's know lower that attendance I know that's know lower that attendance I know that's really important 19 people um what was really important 19 people um what was really important 19 people um what was your first move that was different from your first move that was different from your first move that was different from the normal grid of just tithes and the normal grid of just tithes and the normal grid of just tithes and offerings offerings offerings well the first move was uh from a DC well the first move was uh from a DC well the first move was uh from a DC public school into the movie theaters at public school into the movie theaters at public school into the movie theaters at Union Station and Carrie that's where

Union Station and Carrie that's where Union Station and Carrie that's where one of our core convictions the church one of our core convictions the church one of our core convictions the church belongs in the middle of the marketplace belongs in the middle of the marketplace belongs in the middle of the marketplace this idea that uh yeah um sure Jesus this idea that uh yeah um sure Jesus this idea that uh yeah um sure Jesus went into the temple and turned over went into the temple and turned over went into the temple and turned over tables he said my house will be called tables he said my house will be called tables he said my house will be called called A House of Prayer but what I'm called A House of Prayer but what I'm called A House of Prayer but what I'm describing as something very different a describing as something very different a describing as something very different a church that stays within its four walls church that stays within its four walls church that stays within its four walls isn't a church at all Jesus didn't just isn't a church at all Jesus didn't just isn't a church at all Jesus didn't just hang out at the synagogue hung out at hang out at the synagogue hung out at hang out at the synagogue hung out at Wells Wells were natural gathering Wells Wells were natural gathering Wells Wells were natural gathering places in ancient culture and so the places in ancient culture and so the places in ancient culture and so the first move was purchasing a crack house first move was purchasing a crack house first move was purchasing a crack house turning it into Ebenezer's coffee house turning it into Ebenezer's coffee house turning it into Ebenezer's coffee house and we we circled it in prayer for five and we we circled it in prayer for five and we we circled it in prayer for five years and uh we didn't have uh when we years and uh we didn't have uh when we years and uh we didn't have uh when we got the vision we were less than a got the vision we were less than a got the vision we were less than a hundred people they wanted a million hundred people they wanted a million hundred people they wanted a million dollars for that little posted stamp uh dollars for that little posted stamp uh dollars for that little posted stamp uh dilapitated property again because it dilapitated property again because it dilapitated property again because it was a block from Union Station in five was a block from Union Station in five was a block from Union Station in five blocks from the capital so um we kind of blocks from the capital so um we kind of blocks from the capital so um we kind of got into the game by uh opening a a got into the game by uh opening a a got into the game by uh opening a a coffee house which some people you know coffee house which some people you know coffee house which some people you know like why why would a church open a a like why why would a church open a a like why why would a church open a a coffee house well um again why not coffee house well um again why not coffee house well um again why not create a place where church and create a place where church and create a place where church and Community can cross paths and and I'll Community can cross paths and and I'll Community can cross paths and and I'll go on record and just say the Holy go on record and just say the Holy go on record and just say the Holy Spirit Plus caffeine equals awesome like Spirit Plus caffeine equals awesome like Spirit Plus caffeine equals awesome like I want both I want both of those things I want both I want both of those things I want both I want both of those things so uh it was kind of our first in so uh it was kind of our first in so uh it was kind of our first in Endeavor let's get our feet wet uh and Endeavor let's get our feet wet uh and Endeavor let's get our feet wet uh and it was about a $3 million project which it was about a $3 million project which it was about a $3 million project which at the time that felt like it was way at the time that felt like it was way at the time that felt like it was way over our head uh we're we're now about over our head uh we're we're now about over our head uh we're we're now about 50 million into a city block uh on the

50 million into a city block uh on the 50 million into a city block uh on the other side of Capitol Hill that we can other side of Capitol Hill that we can other side of Capitol Hill that we can talk about a little bit but um but that talk about a little bit but um but that talk about a little bit but um but that was uh that was that first kind of was uh that was that first kind of was uh that was that first kind of stream of Revenue that was not tith than stream of Revenue that was not tith than stream of Revenue that was not tith than offering interesting so you had this offering interesting so you had this offering interesting so you had this Vision what year how many years old old Vision what year how many years old old Vision what year how many years old old were you as a church when you decided to were you as a church when you decided to were you as a church when you decided to pursue Ebenezer it was only a year or pursue Ebenezer it was only a year or pursue Ebenezer it was only a year or two in I was walking by that by that two in I was walking by that by that two in I was walking by that by that crack house and I felt like I felt like crack house and I felt like I felt like crack house and I felt like I felt like that still small voice of the spirit that still small voice of the spirit that still small voice of the spirit said that crack house would make a great said that crack house would make a great said that crack house would make a great coffee house and that's when we started coffee house and that's when we started coffee house and that's when we started uh circling it in prayer for about five uh circling it in prayer for about five uh circling it in prayer for about five years wow so you started that a year in years wow so you started that a year in years wow so you started that a year in um and obviously I mean you've written um and obviously I mean you've written um and obviously I mean you've written so many books including a masterpiece on so many books including a masterpiece on so many books including a masterpiece on prayer or two uh but like I remember prayer or two uh but like I remember prayer or two uh but like I remember when that story broke because I was when that story broke because I was when that story broke because I was following youall all already and I following youall all already and I following youall all already and I remember thinking you know to use a remember thinking you know to use a remember thinking you know to use a phrase that you might be familiar with phrase that you might be familiar with phrase that you might be familiar with wonder how that's not sideways energy wonder how that's not sideways energy wonder how that's not sideways energy it's not sideways energy at all like a it's not sideways energy at all like a it's not sideways energy at all like a lot of people would say well that's a lot of people would say well that's a lot of people would say well that's a distraction right what what was the distraction right what what was the distraction right what what was the vision behind it what made you think no vision behind it what made you think no vision behind it what made you think no this is like fundraising but it's also this is like fundraising but it's also this is like fundraising but it's also Ministry well I just think a lot of Ministry well I just think a lot of Ministry well I just think a lot of churches end up churches end up churches end up uh very um introverted or uh just they uh very um introverted or uh just they uh very um introverted or uh just they just don't have much influence outside just don't have much influence outside just don't have much influence outside their four walls and you know we're a their four walls and you know we're a their four walls and you know we're a church that's been very motivated more

church that's been very motivated more church that's been very motivated more than 300 mission trips uh um and very than 300 mission trips uh um and very than 300 mission trips uh um and very involved in our community including a DC involved in our community including a DC involved in our community including a DC Dream Center that we built in Ward s so Dream Center that we built in Ward s so Dream Center that we built in Ward s so we've always been a church that felt we've always been a church that felt we've always been a church that felt like let's not measure it by seating like let's not measure it by seating like let's not measure it by seating capacity let's measure it by by sending capacity let's measure it by by sending capacity let's measure it by by sending capacity and really by touch points like capacity and really by touch points like capacity and really by touch points like we we want to reach people who are we we want to reach people who are we we want to reach people who are unchurched dechurched and uh if you're unchurched dechurched and uh if you're unchurched dechurched and uh if you're going to do that you you might need to going to do that you you might need to going to do that you you might need to create it's not sideways energy carry I create it's not sideways energy carry I create it's not sideways energy carry I think it's creating side doors that think it's creating side doors that think it's creating side doors that people can kind of enter into the church people can kind of enter into the church people can kind of enter into the church uh in a way that's other than back in uh in a way that's other than back in uh in a way that's other than back in the day that front door of a weekend the day that front door of a weekend the day that front door of a weekend worship Gathering young Church you were worship Gathering young Church you were worship Gathering young Church you were barely 100 people when you saw that barely 100 people when you saw that barely 100 people when you saw that vision for the first time how did you vision for the first time how did you vision for the first time how did you get a million dollars let alone three get a million dollars let alone three get a million dollars let alone three like how did that like how did that like how did that happen well first 15 years uh we only happen well first 15 years uh we only happen well first 15 years uh we only got one gift that was a five-digit gift got one gift that was a five-digit gift got one gift that was a five-digit gift in other words one gift that was more in other words one gift that was more in other words one gift that was more than than than $110,000 in 15 years 15 years so you're $110,000 in 15 years 15 years so you're $110,000 in 15 years 15 years so you're like micro raising for that yes but like micro raising for that yes but like micro raising for that yes but here's where I would kind of Seed Faith here's where I would kind of Seed Faith here's where I would kind of Seed Faith uh the miracle in the house and I think uh the miracle in the house and I think uh the miracle in the house and I think God knows what what we need and it was God knows what what we need and it was God knows what what we need and it was about 15 years in someone called asked about 15 years in someone called asked about 15 years in someone called asked if they could uh meet with me I almost if they could uh meet with me I almost if they could uh meet with me I almost said no you know you can't take every said no you know you can't take every said no you know you can't take every meeting and uh honestly the first hour I meeting and uh honestly the first hour I meeting and uh honestly the first hour I thought to myself why did I take this thought to myself why did I take this thought to myself why did I take this meeting because they were asking about

meeting because they were asking about meeting because they were asking about church governance uh asking all kinds I church governance uh asking all kinds I church governance uh asking all kinds I didn't know it Carrie but they were didn't know it Carrie but they were didn't know it Carrie but they were popping the hood and kicking the tires popping the hood and kicking the tires popping the hood and kicking the tires and uh after that meeting uh they said and uh after that meeting uh they said and uh after that meeting uh they said hey we want to give a gift it was a $3 hey we want to give a gift it was a $3 hey we want to give a gift it was a $3 million gift and I'll never forget what million gift and I'll never forget what million gift and I'll never forget what they said they said we're giving it they said they said we're giving it they said they said we're giving it because you have Vision beyond your because you have Vision beyond your because you have Vision beyond your resources and so I I always want to resources and so I I always want to resources and so I I always want to encourage leaders uh it might be encourage leaders uh it might be encourage leaders uh it might be interesting for us to talk about Good interesting for us to talk about Good interesting for us to talk about Good Financial practices uh thanks to to Financial practices uh thanks to to Financial practices uh thanks to to Chris Hodges we we only budget to 90% of Chris Hodges we we only budget to 90% of Chris Hodges we we only budget to 90% of the previous year's income it's a very the previous year's income it's a very the previous year's income it's a very fiscally kind of conservative approach fiscally kind of conservative approach fiscally kind of conservative approach um but you better not let your budget um but you better not let your budget um but you better not let your budget determine your vision like you you've determine your vision like you you've determine your vision like you you've got to have a vision that's going to got to have a vision that's going to got to have a vision that's going to demand those kinds of Miracles and uh demand those kinds of Miracles and uh demand those kinds of Miracles and uh and then they they kept happening and so and then they they kept happening and so and then they they kept happening and so uh we just I I don't know I think God uh we just I I don't know I think God uh we just I I don't know I think God has blessings for us in categories that has blessings for us in categories that has blessings for us in categories that we can't conceive of I think God's we can't conceive of I think God's we can't conceive of I think God's vision for our church is bigger than vision for our church is bigger than vision for our church is bigger than ours and uh if you stay humble stay ours and uh if you stay humble stay ours and uh if you stay humble stay hungry Ju Just watch just watch so hungry Ju Just watch just watch so hungry Ju Just watch just watch so there's so much there Mark I want to there's so much there Mark I want to there's so much there Mark I want to back up a little bit I want to get Chris back up a little bit I want to get Chris back up a little bit I want to get Chris Hodges I want to talk about the 90% Hodges I want to talk about the 90% Hodges I want to talk about the 90% model and so on and so forth that $3 model and so on and so forth that $3 model and so on and so forth that $3 million gift is awesome but that's 15 million gift is awesome but that's 15 million gift is awesome but that's 15 years into it so yes we're going to put years into it so yes we're going to put years into it so yes we're going to put that at 2011 if my math is right is that that at 2011 if my math is right is that that at 2011 if my math is right is that right 2011 okay so but Ebenezer's opened

right 2011 okay so but Ebenezer's opened right 2011 okay so but Ebenezer's opened before then so that million dollars was before then so that million dollars was before then so that million dollars was first raised in small G well relatively first raised in small G well relatively first raised in small G well relatively small gifts yep Y and and well in 80% small gifts yep Y and and well in 80% small gifts yep Y and and well in 80% single 20 something our first 15 years single 20 something our first 15 years single 20 something our first 15 years yes so so listen your chances of getting yes so so listen your chances of getting yes so so listen your chances of getting married if you show up to our church in married if you show up to our church in married if you show up to our church in the early days are pretty high like this the early days are pretty high like this the early days are pretty high like this was this predates uh dating apps Carrie was this predates uh dating apps Carrie was this predates uh dating apps Carrie so we we were like a uh a Matchmaker on so we we were like a uh a Matchmaker on so we we were like a uh a Matchmaker on Capitol Hill but but but we always had Capitol Hill but but but we always had Capitol Hill but but but we always had um I mean one of our other core um I mean one of our other core um I mean one of our other core convictions is God's going to bless us convictions is God's going to bless us convictions is God's going to bless us in proportion to how we give to missions in proportion to how we give to missions in proportion to how we give to missions and care for the poor in our city so we and care for the poor in our city so we and care for the poor in our city so we gave our first $50 check about nine gave our first $50 check about nine gave our first $50 check about nine months in to missions and we just never months in to missions and we just never months in to missions and we just never never look back so worried about about never look back so worried about about never look back so worried about about uh life to date about 27 million that uh life to date about 27 million that uh life to date about 27 million that we've given to Kingdom causes that don't we've given to Kingdom causes that don't we've given to Kingdom causes that don't have our name on it and and that is our have our name on it and and that is our have our name on it and and that is our that's our motivation um the the Lord that's our motivation um the the Lord that's our motivation um the the Lord just spoke in no uncertain terms about just spoke in no uncertain terms about just spoke in no uncertain terms about four years ago do more things that don't four years ago do more things that don't four years ago do more things that don't have your name on it and so Carrie we have your name on it and so Carrie we have your name on it and so Carrie we really feel like our our mission at this really feel like our our mission at this really feel like our our mission at this point is to give a Birthright and give a point is to give a Birthright and give a point is to give a Birthright and give a blessing and sometimes that's Financial blessing and sometimes that's Financial blessing and sometimes that's Financial uh to other other churches and we've uh to other other churches and we've uh to other other churches and we've just found if you air on the side of just found if you air on the side of just found if you air on the side of generosity um you know there was a generosity um you know there was a generosity um you know there was a church and and boy it's dangerous saying church and and boy it's dangerous saying church and and boy it's dangerous saying this in this setting but you know we uh

this in this setting but you know we uh this in this setting but you know we uh there was a get a lot of calls for there was a get a lot of calls for there was a get a lot of calls for meetings uh Mark after that yeah but but meetings uh Mark after that yeah but but meetings uh Mark after that yeah but but we uh we felt called to retire another we uh we felt called to retire another we uh we felt called to retire another Church's debt um I'll even throw this Church's debt um I'll even throw this Church's debt um I'll even throw this out there and and this wouldn't it be out there and and this wouldn't it be out there and and this wouldn't it be amazing um and I'll tell you the Genesis amazing um and I'll tell you the Genesis amazing um and I'll tell you the Genesis I had the Lord convicted me I had a I had the Lord convicted me I had a I had the Lord convicted me I had a harder time praying for churches four harder time praying for churches four harder time praying for churches four blocks away than four states away and blocks away than four states away and blocks away than four states away and and part of it was just like this and part of it was just like this and part of it was just like this competitive streak that you know I competitive streak that you know I competitive streak that you know I played basketball in college and and and played basketball in college and and and played basketball in college and and and H how do you get past that well here's H how do you get past that well here's H how do you get past that well here's what happened um we made a decision any what happened um we made a decision any what happened um we made a decision any church in the DC area that's preaching church in the DC area that's preaching church in the DC area that's preaching and practicing the gospel we want to be and practicing the gospel we want to be and practicing the gospel we want to be shareholders we want to get in on the shareholders we want to get in on the shareholders we want to get in on the IPO and so there are dozen and dozens IPO and so there are dozen and dozens IPO and so there are dozen and dozens and dozens of churches over the last 10 and dozens of churches over the last 10 and dozens of churches over the last 10 12 years that we've had the joy of 12 years that we've had the joy of 12 years that we've had the joy of investing in and uh and then I remember investing in and uh and then I remember investing in and uh and then I remember when we moved into our current when we moved into our current when we moved into our current Auditorium a church gave us a $10,000 Auditorium a church gave us a $10,000 Auditorium a church gave us a $10,000 gift to help buy some seats well we have gift to help buy some seats well we have gift to help buy some seats well we have flipped that $10,000 gift for other flipped that $10,000 gift for other flipped that $10,000 gift for other churches like you you just you you if churches like you you just you you if churches like you you just you you if you begin to operate out of a out of a you begin to operate out of a out of a you begin to operate out of a out of a heart of heart of heart of generosity um we've just found that the generosity um we've just found that the generosity um we've just found that the lord lord provides so um yeah that's lord lord provides so um yeah that's lord lord provides so um yeah that's that's that's that's incredible um and you know I love your incredible um and you know I love your incredible um and you know I love your vision I love the inspiration behind it vision I love the inspiration behind it vision I love the inspiration behind it I'm gonna I'm going to take a real I'm gonna I'm going to take a real I'm gonna I'm going to take a real tactical approach okay Mark you know me tactical approach okay Mark you know me tactical approach okay Mark you know me um so what I want to do so your first um so what I want to do so your first um so what I want to do so your first million was small you put some money

million was small you put some money million was small you put some money down and then took out a mortgage on the down and then took out a mortgage on the down and then took out a mortgage on the ebenezers or how did that work we sure ebenezers or how did that work we sure ebenezers or how did that work we sure did it was a $3 million mortgage and and did it was a $3 million mortgage and and did it was a $3 million mortgage and and I'll throw this out there when when we I'll throw this out there when when we I'll throw this out there when when we purchased uh the city block uh for 29.3 purchased uh the city block uh for 29.3 purchased uh the city block uh for 29.3 million that we currently are DC campus million that we currently are DC campus million that we currently are DC campus uh somehow someway a bank gave us a $24 uh somehow someway a bank gave us a $24 uh somehow someway a bank gave us a $24 million mortgage now we had to put up million mortgage now we had to put up million mortgage now we had to put up everything we owned I almost had to put everything we owned I almost had to put everything we owned I almost had to put up my kids's up my kids's up my kids's collateral um and uh it's crazy because collateral um and uh it's crazy because collateral um and uh it's crazy because we're now debt-free um because of the we're now debt-free um because of the we're now debt-free um because of the Lord's continued provision but we we had Lord's continued provision but we we had Lord's continued provision but we we had to take some really to take some really to take some really significant financial Steps of Faith in significant financial Steps of Faith in significant financial Steps of Faith in including uh some mortgages that can including uh some mortgages that can including uh some mortgages that can cause a little heartburn at like 3:00 a. cause a little heartburn at like 3:00 a. cause a little heartburn at like 3:00 a. uh if your offering isn't great on the uh if your offering isn't great on the uh if your offering isn't great on the weekend when you took that $3 million weekend when you took that $3 million weekend when you took that $3 million mortgage how many people are at your mortgage how many people are at your mortgage how many people are at your church do you remember off hand oh it it church do you remember off hand oh it it church do you remember off hand oh it it um it took us five years to grow from 19 um it took us five years to grow from 19 um it took us five years to grow from 19 people to 250 people yeah so we yeah people to 250 people yeah so we yeah people to 250 people yeah so we yeah somewhere in that that neighborhood 2 to somewhere in that that neighborhood 2 to somewhere in that that neighborhood 2 to 300 very relatable big step of Faith but 300 very relatable big step of Faith but 300 very relatable big step of Faith but it was an incom producing property right it was an incom producing property right it was an incom producing property right it was and um yeah we we knew we we it was and um yeah we we knew we we it was and um yeah we we knew we we figured because of the location we had a figured because of the location we had a figured because of the location we had a good chance of it being in the black good chance of it being in the black good chance of it being in the black year one which is which is probably not

year one which is which is probably not year one which is which is probably not always the case for a coffee house or always the case for a coffee house or always the case for a coffee house or any other startup business but it it was any other startup business but it it was any other startup business but it it was and by the way uh this is so fun because and by the way uh this is so fun because and by the way uh this is so fun because I you know God doesn't just call to I you know God doesn't just call to I you know God doesn't just call to qualify qualifies the called we had no qualify qualifies the called we had no qualify qualifies the called we had no business going into the coffee business business going into the coffee business business going into the coffee business car and this is now this is for someone car and this is now this is for someone car and this is now this is for someone out there because I I do think um you out there because I I do think um you out there because I I do think um you have to pray like it depends on God work have to pray like it depends on God work have to pray like it depends on God work like it depends on you like you need a like it depends on you like you need a like it depends on you like you need a business plan but to be honest looking business plan but to be honest looking business plan but to be honest looking back our business plan was sending uh back our business plan was sending uh back our business plan was sending uh one of our employees at the church to one of our employees at the church to one of our employees at the church to work at Starbucks for six months to uh work at Starbucks for six months to uh work at Starbucks for six months to uh plunder the Egyptians and get as much plunder the Egyptians and get as much plunder the Egyptians and get as much information hey just steal one of those information hey just steal one of those information hey just steal one of those green apron green apron green apron books uh bring it back and we'll and books uh bring it back and we'll and books uh bring it back and we'll and then we'll put our fingerprint on it so then we'll put our fingerprint on it so then we'll put our fingerprint on it so we we really listen if if we could we we really listen if if we could we we really listen if if we could succeed at that I think about anybody succeed at that I think about anybody succeed at that I think about anybody can so you were meeting in theaters at can so you were meeting in theaters at can so you were meeting in theaters at the time did you have any internal the time did you have any internal the time did you have any internal voices or even external voices mentors voices or even external voices mentors voices or even external voices mentors friends colleagues who are like what friends colleagues who are like what friends colleagues who are like what you're buying a coffee house why are you you're buying a coffee house why are you you're buying a coffee house why are you not building a building like you're not building a building like you're not building a building like you're supposed to be building a building you supposed to be building a building you supposed to be building a building you you'll love it one member of our you'll love it one member of our you'll love it one member of our stewardship team uh was a uh graduate stewardship team uh was a uh graduate stewardship team uh was a uh graduate degree from Colombia in economics worked degree from Colombia in economics worked degree from Colombia in economics worked at the World Bank and uh said Mark this at the World Bank and uh said Mark this at the World Bank and uh said Mark this is a terrible idea but but on paper but is a terrible idea but but on paper but is a terrible idea but but on paper but love you trust you and uh let's let's love you trust you and uh let's let's love you trust you and uh let's let's take a risk here so it take a risk here so it take a risk here so it it it's really tricky Carrie because um

it it's really tricky Carrie because um it it's really tricky Carrie because um it's it's a it's it's a it's it's a multivariable calculus when you look at multivariable calculus when you look at multivariable calculus when you look at opportunity in the Kingdom you have to opportunity in the Kingdom you have to opportunity in the Kingdom you have to count actual cost and you have to count count actual cost and you have to count count actual cost and you have to count opportunity cost so you know we could opportunity cost so you know we could opportunity cost so you know we could have saved $ 29.3 million not buying have saved $ 29.3 million not buying have saved $ 29.3 million not buying this city block that we currently own this city block that we currently own this city block that we currently own but the opportunity cost would have been but the opportunity cost would have been but the opportunity cost would have been far greater so I think some leaders tend far greater so I think some leaders tend far greater so I think some leaders tend to maybe lean towards the actual cost to maybe lean towards the actual cost to maybe lean towards the actual cost and I'm just wired in a way like it well and I'm just wired in a way like it well and I'm just wired in a way like it well and studies bear this out that at the and studies bear this out that at the and studies bear this out that at the end of our Lives 86% of our regrets are end of our Lives 86% of our regrets are end of our Lives 86% of our regrets are going to be inaction regrets it's the going to be inaction regrets it's the going to be inaction regrets it's the opportunities we left on the table so I opportunities we left on the table so I opportunities we left on the table so I just I don't want to get to the end of just I don't want to get to the end of just I don't want to get to the end of the game and uh and have buried Talent the game and uh and have buried Talent the game and uh and have buried Talent like I want to make sure that like we we like I want to make sure that like we we like I want to make sure that like we we we left it on the court left it on the we left it on the court left it on the we left it on the court left it on the field left it on the table well this is field left it on the table well this is field left it on the table well this is good and I should say this is not you good and I should say this is not you good and I should say this is not you know you know those disclaimers this is know you know those disclaimers this is know you know those disclaimers this is not Financial advice I'm not saying this not Financial advice I'm not saying this not Financial advice I'm not saying this is a prescription for church Planters is a prescription for church Planters is a prescription for church Planters but it's such a different paradigm but it's such a different paradigm but it's such a different paradigm and I've been like taking notes for a and I've been like taking notes for a and I've been like taking notes for a decade decade and a half two decades decade decade and a half two decades decade decade and a half two decades watching you and I thought this is where watching you and I thought this is where watching you and I thought this is where we're going to go and I really want to we're going to go and I really want to we're going to go and I really want to explore it okay so you've got ebenezers explore it okay so you've got ebenezers explore it okay so you've got ebenezers it turns a profit you're still a it turns a profit you're still a it turns a profit you're still a portable church talk about the expansion portable church talk about the expansion portable church talk about the expansion when did you end up in that theater you when did you end up in that theater you when did you end up in that theater you know the narrow one that's not in the in know the narrow one that's not in the in know the narrow one that's not in the in Union Station but is it called The Dream Union Station but is it called The Dream Union Station but is it called The Dream Center theater what's what what did you

Center theater what's what what did you Center theater what's what what did you call it I'm trying to remember the name call it I'm trying to remember the name call it I'm trying to remember the name well we we ended up in eight locations well we we ended up in eight locations well we we ended up in eight locations in seven of them were different movie in seven of them were different movie in seven of them were different movie theaters including uh the Lincoln theaters including uh the Lincoln theaters including uh the Lincoln Theater in DC which was um we were there Theater in DC which was um we were there Theater in DC which was um we were there for many many years which was such a a for many many years which was such a a for many many years which was such a a fun a fun season and life has lived in fun a fun season and life has lived in fun a fun season and life has lived in season leadership happens in Seasons the season leadership happens in Seasons the season leadership happens in Seasons the irony is that we we aren't in movie irony is that we we aren't in movie irony is that we we aren't in movie theaters so Carrie we went two decades I theaters so Carrie we went two decades I theaters so Carrie we went two decades I hope this encourages someone but we went hope this encourages someone but we went hope this encourages someone but we went two decades in rented facilities and our two decades in rented facilities and our two decades in rented facilities and our Paradigm was that we're a tabernacle not Paradigm was that we're a tabernacle not Paradigm was that we're a tabernacle not a Temple like we we when the cloud moves a Temple like we we when the cloud moves a Temple like we we when the cloud moves we move and God pulled a fast one on us we move and God pulled a fast one on us we move and God pulled a fast one on us and um gave us this piece of property and um gave us this piece of property and um gave us this piece of property that was not part of our Paradigm for 20 that was not part of our Paradigm for 20 that was not part of our Paradigm for 20 years and and now uh it's we we've had years and and now uh it's we we've had years and and now uh it's we we've had to relearn um how long Carri how long to relearn um how long Carri how long to relearn um how long Carri how long were you at Connexus how long did you uh were you at Connexus how long did you uh were you at Connexus how long did you uh lead Pastor so 20 years from 1995 to lead Pastor so 20 years from 1995 to lead Pastor so 20 years from 1995 to 2015 and then we're still involved I've 2015 and then we're still involved I've 2015 and then we're still involved I've got meetings there tomorrow but you know got meetings there tomorrow but you know got meetings there tomorrow but you know I'm a volunteer these days well so I'm a volunteer these days well so I'm a volunteer these days well so here's my question for you over 20 years here's my question for you over 20 years here's my question for you over 20 years you didn't Pastor One Church sure it had you didn't Pastor One Church sure it had you didn't Pastor One Church sure it had the same name but H how many how many the same name but H how many how many the same name but H how many how many different pastors churches do you think different pastors churches do you think different pastors churches do you think you pastored over yeah you know what you pastored over yeah you know what you pastored over yeah you know what over 30 I was yeah for 20 years when I over 30 I was yeah for 20 years when I over 30 I was yeah for 20 years when I was a lead Pastor probably five was a lead Pastor probably five was a lead Pastor probably five different churches like we went through different churches like we went through different churches like we went through so many iterations we moved out of the so many iterations we moved out of the so many iterations we moved out of the original buildings to an elementary

original buildings to an elementary original buildings to an elementary school to our first new facility left a school to our first new facility left a school to our first new facility left a denomination denomination denomination uh and then one of my last things I did uh and then one of my last things I did uh and then one of my last things I did was build our broadcast location and was build our broadcast location and was build our broadcast location and then last year Jeff my successor opened then last year Jeff my successor opened then last year Jeff my successor opened up an aurilia location 17 years portable up an aurilia location 17 years portable up an aurilia location 17 years portable in one place opened up the Aurelia in one place opened up the Aurelia in one place opened up the Aurelia location and we're looking to expand location and we're looking to expand location and we're looking to expand beyond that but yeah exactly and I go beyond that but yeah exactly and I go beyond that but yeah exactly and I go there I don't know three quarters of the there I don't know three quarters of the there I don't know three quarters of the people now they don't know me that's people now they don't know me that's people now they don't know me that's awesome Yep yep well and RT Kendall said awesome Yep yep well and RT Kendall said awesome Yep yep well and RT Kendall said sometimes the greatest opposition to sometimes the greatest opposition to sometimes the greatest opposition to what God wants to do next comes from what God wants to do next comes from what God wants to do next comes from those who on The Cutting Edge of what those who on The Cutting Edge of what those who on The Cutting Edge of what God did last and so I think what's God did last and so I think what's God did last and so I think what's important is that you don't get locked important is that you don't get locked important is that you don't get locked into a certain uh into a certain uh into a certain uh methodology and uh even over the last methodology and uh even over the last methodology and uh even over the last four or five years um we we have started four or five years um we we have started four or five years um we we have started a spin cycle where we're launching our a spin cycle where we're launching our a spin cycle where we're launching our campuses as Network churches so it's a campuses as Network churches so it's a campuses as Network churches so it's a new day it's a different day and uh I I new day it's a different day and uh I I new day it's a different day and uh I I think the game changes but but that to think the game changes but but that to think the game changes but but that to me is energizing and it's kind of fun me is energizing and it's kind of fun me is energizing and it's kind of fun because you never arrive you never because you never arrive you never because you never arrive you never really it's like parenting right as soon really it's like parenting right as soon really it's like parenting right as soon as you figure out twoyear olds they're as you figure out twoyear olds they're as you figure out twoyear olds they're three yeah exactly um so your your next three yeah exactly um so your your next three yeah exactly um so your your next move you're in multiple theaters now move you're in multiple theaters now move you're in multiple theaters now you've got ebben's coffee house what is you've got ebben's coffee house what is you've got ebben's coffee house what is the next move the next move the next move propertywise well then then we bought a propertywise well then then we bought a propertywise well then then we bought a a piece of property uh for about $8 a piece of property uh for about $8 a piece of property uh for about $8 million with a block of Frontage on the million with a block of Frontage on the million with a block of Frontage on the 695 Expressway it took a miracle um and

695 Expressway it took a miracle um and 695 Expressway it took a miracle um and we had a sh with an architect planned to we had a sh with an architect planned to we had a sh with an architect planned to build and that's when CSX the train build and that's when CSX the train build and that's when CSX the train company said hey we're going to build a company said hey we're going to build a company said hey we're going to build a double-decker train tunnel right double-decker train tunnel right double-decker train tunnel right underneath Virginia Avenue which is what underneath Virginia Avenue which is what underneath Virginia Avenue which is what the property was on and uh it derailed the property was on and uh it derailed the property was on and uh it derailed us pun intended for five years Carrie I us pun intended for five years Carrie I us pun intended for five years Carrie I was I was I was ticked I was like I was I was I was ticked I was like I was I was I was ticked I was like I can't believe it Lord H how can we get can't believe it Lord H how can we get can't believe it Lord H how can we get this property like have our this property like have our this property like have our architectural plans like we're ready to architectural plans like we're ready to architectural plans like we're ready to go and um go and um go and um and fiveyear delay but praise God and fiveyear delay but praise God and fiveyear delay but praise God because it was in that interum that uh because it was in that interum that uh because it was in that interum that uh we acquired the miracle theater uh just we acquired the miracle theater uh just we acquired the miracle theater uh just two blocks away where we gathered for two blocks away where we gathered for two blocks away where we gathered for about six or seven years that's where we about six or seven years that's where we about six or seven years that's where we met and Y where where I where I where I met and Y where where I where I where I met and Y where where I where I where I spoke that's where at your best was born spoke that's where at your best was born spoke that's where at your best was born in that theater where you wanted me to in that theater where you wanted me to in that theater where you wanted me to talk about something I thought I'm going talk about something I thought I'm going talk about something I thought I'm going to try something new and I went to sit to try something new and I went to sit to try something new and I went to sit down and you're like that's a book well down and you're like that's a book well down and you're like that's a book well it became a course and now it's a book it became a course and now it's a book it became a course and now it's a book yeah good yeah good yeah good memor that amazing the birthright uh is memor that amazing the birthright uh is memor that amazing the birthright uh is right there exactly and and by the way right there exactly and and by the way right there exactly and and by the way it's so fun over the last few years it's so fun over the last few years it's so fun over the last few years we've incubated three churches there we've incubated three churches there we've incubated three churches there other churches and uh we've used other churches and uh we've used other churches and uh we've used Ebenezer to incubate three three Ebenezer to incubate three three Ebenezer to incubate three three churches so about half a dozen churches churches so about half a dozen churches churches so about half a dozen churches in the last three or four years which is in the last three or four years which is in the last three or four years which is just it's so fun I it it's not about the just it's so fun I it it's not about the just it's so fun I it it's not about the name over the church doors about the name over the church doors about the name over the church doors about the name above all names and so if we're name above all names and so if we're name above all names and so if we're really dreaming for cities um there's

really dreaming for cities um there's really dreaming for cities um there's just got to be this collaboration kind just got to be this collaboration kind just got to be this collaboration kind of this um uh commonality that we feel W of this um uh commonality that we feel W of this um uh commonality that we feel W with each other but that that's a little with each other but that that's a little with each other but that that's a little bit of a of a sidebar but I think it's bit of a of a sidebar but I think it's bit of a of a sidebar but I think it's important no that's important okay so important no that's important okay so important no that's important okay so you buy this property was that the Navy you buy this property was that the Navy you buy this property was that the Navy Yard property or that was a different Yard property or that was a different Yard property or that was a different property so I it's right across uh El property so I it's right across uh El property so I it's right across uh El street from the city block and so it was street from the city block and so it was street from the city block and so it was during that fiveyear kind of during that fiveyear kind of during that fiveyear kind of um delay or detour that carrye evidently um delay or detour that carrye evidently um delay or detour that carrye evidently God's Vision was bigger than ours God's Vision was bigger than ours God's Vision was bigger than ours because you know I mean a block of because you know I mean a block of because you know I mean a block of Frontage on 695 and and at some point Frontage on 695 and and at some point Frontage on 695 and and at some point we'll build there right now it's our we'll build there right now it's our we'll build there right now it's our parking lot it's our yeah it's our parking lot it's our yeah it's our parking lot it's our yeah it's our parking lot for um for this facility but parking lot for um for this facility but parking lot for um for this facility but I I think th this is where I would just I I think th this is where I would just I I think th this is where I would just challenge people um to have a Theology challenge people um to have a Theology challenge people um to have a Theology of the city that Jeremiah 29:7 seek the of the city that Jeremiah 29:7 seek the of the city that Jeremiah 29:7 seek the peace and proc Prosperity at the city if peace and proc Prosperity at the city if peace and proc Prosperity at the city if it prospers you'll prosper and so like it prospers you'll prosper and so like it prospers you'll prosper and so like when when the when the mayor came out when when the when the mayor came out when when the when the mayor came out and cut the ribbon at the Dream Center and cut the ribbon at the Dream Center and cut the ribbon at the Dream Center um we we were essentially um cutting um we we were essentially um cutting um we we were essentially um cutting down on city services that needed to down on city services that needed to down on city services that needed to happen because we invested 5.5 million happen because we invested 5.5 million happen because we invested 5.5 million in that endeavor and so Carrie a couple in that endeavor and so Carrie a couple in that endeavor and so Carrie a couple of months ago when I sit down with the of months ago when I sit down with the of months ago when I sit down with the mayor with kind of a cross-section of mayor with kind of a cross-section of mayor with kind of a cross-section of pastors um I'm able to kind of shake her pastors um I'm able to kind of shake her pastors um I'm able to kind of shake her hand and say mayor do you remember you hand and say mayor do you remember you hand and say mayor do you remember you came out and you were so kind to cut came out and you were so kind to cut came out and you were so kind to cut that ribbon at the DC Dream Center and I

that ribbon at the DC Dream Center and I that ribbon at the DC Dream Center and I just I want our our city officials to just I want our our city officials to just I want our our city officials to know like we're not trying to just build know like we're not trying to just build know like we're not trying to just build a church we're trying to bless a city to a church we're trying to bless a city to a church we're trying to bless a city to the third and fourth generation and and the third and fourth generation and and the third and fourth generation and and that's where um that's where um that's where um Jeremiah uh says hey uh plant Gardens Jeremiah uh says hey uh plant Gardens Jeremiah uh says hey uh plant Gardens build houses um and and this is okay build houses um and and this is okay build houses um and and this is okay this is worth 30 seconds a false prophet this is worth 30 seconds a false prophet this is worth 30 seconds a false prophet named hananiah said you're only going to named hananiah said you're only going to named hananiah said you're only going to be there in two years um but if you have be there in two years um but if you have be there in two years um but if you have a two-year mindset uh you don't even a two-year mindset uh you don't even a two-year mindset uh you don't even unpack your suitcase you rent the city unpack your suitcase you rent the city unpack your suitcase you rent the city but if you have an intergenerational but if you have an intergenerational but if you have an intergenerational mindset if you're thinking 70 years mindset if you're thinking 70 years mindset if you're thinking 70 years which is what Jeremiah said you're going which is what Jeremiah said you're going which is what Jeremiah said you're going to be there for well then you start to be there for well then you start to be there for well then you start doing thing for the third things for the doing thing for the third things for the doing thing for the third things for the third and fourth generation so um when third and fourth generation so um when third and fourth generation so um when we bought this city block we spent a we bought this city block we spent a we bought this city block we spent a million dollars uh drilling 109 million dollars uh drilling 109 million dollars uh drilling 109 micropiles 40 feet deep to reinforce the micropiles 40 feet deep to reinforce the micropiles 40 feet deep to reinforce the Footers so that we could build build on Footers so that we could build build on Footers so that we could build build on the acre and a half a roof deck above us the acre and a half a roof deck above us the acre and a half a roof deck above us but here's the catch Carrie we have no but here's the catch Carrie we have no but here's the catch Carrie we have no intention on building above the building intention on building above the building intention on building above the building but the Next Generation might and so but the Next Generation might and so but the Next Generation might and so it's kind of this idea of can we set up it's kind of this idea of can we set up it's kind of this idea of can we set up because we drank from Wells we didn't because we drank from Wells we didn't because we drank from Wells we didn't dig we we eat from fields we didn't dig we we eat from fields we didn't dig we we eat from fields we didn't plant like we got to return that favor plant like we got to return that favor plant like we got to return that favor so there's a there's a Theology and a so there's a there's a Theology and a so there's a there's a Theology and a philosophy that kind of philosophy that kind of philosophy that kind of undergirds um I think what what we're undergirds um I think what what we're undergirds um I think what what we're trying to do here in the nation trying to do here in the nation trying to do here in the nation Capital so you bought the property which

Capital so you bought the property which Capital so you bought the property which is now a parking lot that you couldn't is now a parking lot that you couldn't is now a parking lot that you couldn't build on because of a variation in the build on because of a variation in the build on because of a variation in the meantime you purchased a theater and if meantime you purchased a theater and if meantime you purchased a theater and if you think about an old school theater you think about an old school theater you think about an old school theater don't think of a multiplex just think of don't think of a multiplex just think of don't think of a multiplex just think of like you know it's it's probably what like you know it's it's probably what like you know it's it's probably what 40t wide 50 ft wide uh beautiful red 40t wide 50 ft wide uh beautiful red 40t wide 50 ft wide uh beautiful red velvet uh chairs all the way up R velvet uh chairs all the way up R velvet uh chairs all the way up R seating ET Art Deco with the original seating ET Art Deco with the original seating ET Art Deco with the original the original the original the original 1929 uh theater seats and uh yeah okay 1929 uh theater seats and uh yeah okay 1929 uh theater seats and uh yeah okay so that's a picture in your mind so that's a picture in your mind so that's a picture in your mind meanwhile you're right across the street meanwhile you're right across the street meanwhile you're right across the street from where you're sitting right now from where you're sitting right now from where you're sitting right now which is an entire city block so what which is an entire city block so what which is an entire city block so what happened in the intervening time to like happened in the intervening time to like happened in the intervening time to like what happened with the city what happened with the city what happened with the city block well it was owned by Madison block well it was owned by Madison block well it was owned by Madison Marquette and um the the Marquette and um the the Marquette and um the the recession uh I I think some of the8 recession uh I I think some of the8 recession uh I I think some of the8 yeah that that's what helped us get the yeah that that's what helped us get the yeah that that's what helped us get the first property because um no one was first property because um no one was first property because um no one was buying property at that point and then buying property at that point and then buying property at that point and then there was just Madison Marquette just there was just Madison Marquette just there was just Madison Marquette just didn't quite have the the patience or didn't quite have the the patience or didn't quite have the the patience or the Long View like they had investors the Long View like they had investors the Long View like they had investors that you got to have a return on that you got to have a return on that you got to have a return on investment yesterday um and and so they investment yesterday um and and so they investment yesterday um and and so they put it on the market and the crazy thing put it on the market and the crazy thing put it on the market and the crazy thing is an investment firm offered cash and is an investment firm offered cash and is an investment firm offered cash and uh we did not but somehow we got the uh we did not but somehow we got the uh we did not but somehow we got the contract and and I better backdrop it contract and and I better backdrop it contract and and I better backdrop it Carrie with the short version that you

Carrie with the short version that you Carrie with the short version that you know 1996 August 16 to be exact uh was know 1996 August 16 to be exact uh was know 1996 August 16 to be exact uh was reading Joshua 13 it says I'll give you reading Joshua 13 it says I'll give you reading Joshua 13 it says I'll give you everywhere you set your foot and just everywhere you set your foot and just everywhere you set your foot and just felt prompted to pray a perimeter around felt prompted to pray a perimeter around felt prompted to pray a perimeter around Capitol Hill wasn't praying for property Capitol Hill wasn't praying for property Capitol Hill wasn't praying for property was praying for people and uh but 29 was praying for people and uh but 29 was praying for people and uh but 29 years later we own six properties on years later we own six properties on years later we own six properties on that prayer circle were worth about 85 that prayer circle were worth about 85 that prayer circle were worth about 85 million uh own them debt-free and and million uh own them debt-free and and million uh own them debt-free and and ebenezers is one corner carrye and this ebenezers is one corner carrye and this ebenezers is one corner carrye and this city block is the other corner and uh city block is the other corner and uh city block is the other corner and uh and no coincidence it's right across the and no coincidence it's right across the and no coincidence it's right across the street from the latro gate uh 1799 street from the latro gate uh 1799 street from the latro gate uh 1799 Thomas Jefferson uh original gateway to Thomas Jefferson uh original gateway to Thomas Jefferson uh original gateway to the Nations capital and so I think what the Nations capital and so I think what the Nations capital and so I think what the Lord was saying is hey I want you to the Lord was saying is hey I want you to the Lord was saying is hey I want you to be watch men watch women on the wall be watch men watch women on the wall be watch men watch women on the wall That's why House of Prayer is so That's why House of Prayer is so That's why House of Prayer is so important to us because I would just say important to us because I would just say important to us because I would just say that um prayer is how we write history that um prayer is how we write history that um prayer is how we write history before it happens and God's done so many before it happens and God's done so many before it happens and God's done so many miracles that I don't know Carrie prayer miracles that I don't know Carrie prayer miracles that I don't know Carrie prayer is how we negotiate prayer is how we do is how we negotiate prayer is how we do is how we negotiate prayer is how we do real estate prayer is how we do business real estate prayer is how we do business real estate prayer is how we do business prayer is how we do everything it's an incredible story so everything it's an incredible story so basically the business funds some of it basically the business funds some of it basically the business funds some of it to buy that uh what's now a parking lot to buy that uh what's now a parking lot to buy that uh what's now a parking lot across the street and then the capital M across the street and then the capital M across the street and then the capital M Madison Marquette I guess private Equity Madison Marquette I guess private Equity Madison Marquette I guess private Equity Firm or real estate firm or something Firm or real estate firm or something Firm or real estate firm or something like that okay y so they're selling it like that okay y so they're selling it like that okay y so they're selling it at a discount after the recession you at a discount after the recession you at a discount after the recession you purchase it um somehow great favor it's

purchase it um somehow great favor it's purchase it um somehow great favor it's funny we weren't the highest bidder on funny we weren't the highest bidder on funny we weren't the highest bidder on this house which we bought 15 years ago this house which we bought 15 years ago this house which we bought 15 years ago um but God gave us favor it's like we um but God gave us favor it's like we um but God gave us favor it's like we didn't we didn't have the money that didn't we didn't have the money that didn't we didn't have the money that other people did but I think the owner other people did but I think the owner other people did but I think the owner liked us and you know said here you go liked us and you know said here you go liked us and you know said here you go you can have it and we've been here 15 you can have it and we've been here 15 you can have it and we've been here 15 years just our personal home anyway long years just our personal home anyway long years just our personal home anyway long story short I'd love to know um so then story short I'd love to know um so then story short I'd love to know um so then what is funding that are you raising what is funding that are you raising what is funding that are you raising money the traditional way how is how is money the traditional way how is how is money the traditional way how is how is that moving because very few churches that moving because very few churches that moving because very few churches own city blocks and you're in DC like own city blocks and you're in DC like own city blocks and you're in DC like you say tens of millions of dollars to you say tens of millions of dollars to you say tens of millions of dollars to purchase these things yeah yeah well we purchase these things yeah yeah well we purchase these things yeah yeah well we continue to get some pretty miraculous continue to get some pretty miraculous continue to get some pretty miraculous gifts including a it was a $14 million gifts including a it was a $14 million gifts including a it was a $14 million gift that retired our debt and W so and gift that retired our debt and W so and gift that retired our debt and W so and I and I'll just say this I think for I and I'll just say this I think for I and I'll just say this I think for every church we plant we need to have every church we plant we need to have every church we plant we need to have businesses Mission and uh that gift came businesses Mission and uh that gift came businesses Mission and uh that gift came from someone with an incredible mind for from someone with an incredible mind for from someone with an incredible mind for business and an incredible heart for the business and an incredible heart for the business and an incredible heart for the kingdom and and again realize that's kingdom and and again realize that's kingdom and and again realize that's several decades in um that did not several decades in um that did not several decades in um that did not happen overnight and and so um yeah and happen overnight and and so um yeah and happen overnight and and so um yeah and and so so then uh this idea of the and so so then uh this idea of the and so so then uh this idea of the church belongs in the middle of the church belongs in the middle of the church belongs in the middle of the marketplace ebenezzer was the first marketplace ebenezzer was the first marketplace ebenezzer was the first expression of that but then we we built expression of that but then we we built expression of that but then we we built this property and actually branded it this property and actually branded it this property and actually branded it the capital turnaround it was the 1891 the capital turnaround it was the 1891 the capital turnaround it was the 1891 Navy Yard car barn so it was a street Navy Yard car barn so it was a street Navy Yard car barn so it was a street car facility and uh we just gutted it I car facility and uh we just gutted it I car facility and uh we just gutted it I think vision is seeing through drywall

think vision is seeing through drywall think vision is seeing through drywall and drop ceilings that aren't and drop ceilings that aren't and drop ceilings that aren't loadbearing and we knew we could loadbearing and we knew we could loadbearing and we knew we could redesign it and uh and then we designed redesign it and uh and then we designed redesign it and uh and then we designed it as an event venue so last year uh 150 it as an event venue so last year uh 150 it as an event venue so last year uh 150 events uh Comcast was here a couple of events uh Comcast was here a couple of events uh Comcast was here a couple of weeks ago um and you know big name weeks ago um and you know big name weeks ago um and you know big name people come in and and rent the building people come in and and rent the building people come in and and rent the building what's crazy is they'll pay more for a what's crazy is they'll pay more for a what's crazy is they'll pay more for a three-day event uh than our entire three-day event uh than our entire three-day event uh than our entire income like the first five years so uh income like the first five years so uh income like the first five years so uh so last year about 150 events uh Revenue so last year about 150 events uh Revenue so last year about 150 events uh Revenue streamed about 1.7 million and and uh streamed about 1.7 million and and uh streamed about 1.7 million and and uh but if it's if it's a partner like JM or but if it's if it's a partner like JM or but if it's if it's a partner like JM or World Vision uh or uh you know just World Vision uh or uh you know just World Vision uh or uh you know just local churches hey it's fre 99 come and local churches hey it's fre 99 come and local churches hey it's fre 99 come and use it uh for a Prayer day a half day um use it uh for a Prayer day a half day um use it uh for a Prayer day a half day um but if but if it's a concert conference but if but if it's a concert conference but if but if it's a concert conference but but here's the thing Carrie it's not but but here's the thing Carrie it's not but but here's the thing Carrie it's not just about like a a number or bottom just about like a a number or bottom just about like a a number or bottom line uh we get to love on everybody who line uh we get to love on everybody who line uh we get to love on everybody who walks in our building we get to show walks in our building we get to show walks in our building we get to show Hospitality we get to roll out a red Hospitality we get to roll out a red Hospitality we get to roll out a red carpet and when when they kind of carpet and when when they kind of carpet and when when they kind of incidentally discover that it's owned by incidentally discover that it's owned by incidentally discover that it's owned by a church I think some people are pretty a church I think some people are pretty a church I think some people are pretty surprised um but we created a a dropdown surprised um but we created a a dropdown surprised um but we created a a dropdown uh DBA uh DBA uh DBA uh eight day Productions that that uh eight day Productions that that uh eight day Productions that that controls and manages uh our portfolio of controls and manages uh our portfolio of controls and manages uh our portfolio of properties so that we we have events properties so that we we have events properties so that we we have events happening all the time and and you know

happening all the time and and you know happening all the time and and you know chief of police was here um doing event chief of police was here um doing event chief of police was here um doing event like that kind of event is more of a like that kind of event is more of a like that kind of event is more of a community service uh where a school community service uh where a school community service uh where a school graduation that needs it um you know graduation that needs it um you know graduation that needs it um you know we'll we'll make that happen but uh what we'll we'll make that happen but uh what we'll we'll make that happen but uh what it does is it keeps us from becoming too it does is it keeps us from becoming too it does is it keeps us from becoming too uh insulated or introverted as a church uh insulated or introverted as a church uh insulated or introverted as a church can you define drop- down DBA did I get can you define drop- down DBA did I get can you define drop- down DBA did I get that right well I wish I had our our that right well I wish I had our our that right well I wish I had our our amazing operations team and uh C coo amazing operations team and uh C coo amazing operations team and uh C coo here because so is that like just a here because so is that like just a here because so is that like just a separate company well yeah so we uh yeah separate company well yeah so we uh yeah separate company well yeah so we uh yeah for different properties I think it for different properties I think it for different properties I think it makes sense to create different entities makes sense to create different entities makes sense to create different entities in part to kind of protect yourself um in part to kind of protect yourself um in part to kind of protect yourself um you know like our kids ministry space we you know like our kids ministry space we you know like our kids ministry space we have about 20,000 square feet of kids have about 20,000 square feet of kids have about 20,000 square feet of kids ministry space that is uh Child Care ministry space that is uh Child Care ministry space that is uh Child Care development um Monday to Friday so development um Monday to Friday so development um Monday to Friday so that's another kind of win winwin um that's another kind of win winwin um that's another kind of win winwin um sort of scenario yeah you partnered with sort of scenario yeah you partnered with sort of scenario yeah you partnered with FaZe right with Frank and FaZe on that FaZe right with Frank and FaZe on that FaZe right with Frank and FaZe on that one and it and it's it's complicated one and it and it's it's complicated one and it and it's it's complicated when you have all of these different when you have all of these different when you have all of these different entities and you know it's funny Carrie entities and you know it's funny Carrie entities and you know it's funny Carrie the um DC doesn't know what to do with the um DC doesn't know what to do with the um DC doesn't know what to do with us because we still pay un unrelated us because we still pay un unrelated us because we still pay un unrelated business tax and but but we don't pray business tax and but but we don't pray business tax and but but we don't pray pay property tax if it's Church use so pay property tax if it's Church use so pay property tax if it's Church use so it we are so complicated uh but um you it we are so complicated uh but um you it we are so complicated uh but um you know I I might remind us that the that know I I might remind us that the that know I I might remind us that the that sin will complicate your life in a way

sin will complicate your life in a way sin will complicate your life in a way it shouldn't be complicated the it shouldn't be complicated the it shouldn't be complicated the blessings of God will complicate your blessings of God will complicate your blessings of God will complicate your life in a way it should be complicated life in a way it should be complicated life in a way it should be complicated so and uh I think that's an important so and uh I think that's an important so and uh I think that's an important mindset um in fact we we could even mindset um in fact we we could even mindset um in fact we we could even extrapolate um I bet uh Tony would say extrapolate um I bet uh Tony would say extrapolate um I bet uh Tony would say the the same thing is is Laura that when the the same thing is is Laura that when the the same thing is is Laura that when we got married it complicated their we got married it complicated their we got married it complicated their lives and we and we have we have we have lives and we and we have we have we have lives and we and we have we have we have three complications uh margar summer and three complications uh margar summer and three complications uh margar summer and Josiah what I'm saying is praise God for Josiah what I'm saying is praise God for Josiah what I'm saying is praise God for complications and and that's true if complications and and that's true if complications and and that's true if you're in the business world if you're you're in the business world if you're you're in the business world if you're in Ministry like when we went in in Ministry like when we went in in Ministry like when we went in multi-side it was so much more multi-side it was so much more multi-side it was so much more complicated but but I think that's what complicated but but I think that's what complicated but but I think that's what you're signing up for if uh if you you're signing up for if uh if you you're signing up for if uh if you really want to play offense for the really want to play offense for the really want to play offense for the kingdom kingdom kingdom well you know what's interesting to uh I well you know what's interesting to uh I well you know what's interesting to uh I mean obviously you're super smart on mean obviously you're super smart on mean obviously you're super smart on these things you have a huge Vision but these things you have a huge Vision but these things you have a huge Vision but the Mark I know is either always working the Mark I know is either always working the Mark I know is either always working on a book or always working on a sermon on a book or always working on a sermon on a book or always working on a sermon it's not like you're sitting in the back it's not like you're sitting in the back it's not like you're sitting in the back room with spreadsheets and you know I'm room with spreadsheets and you know I'm room with spreadsheets and you know I'm I'm sure you're aware of what's going on I'm sure you're aware of what's going on I'm sure you're aware of what's going on you've got a big Vision how do you you've got a big Vision how do you you've got a big Vision how do you delegate it so that your full-time job delegate it so that your full-time job delegate it so that your full-time job doesn't become running a child care doesn't become running a child care doesn't become running a child care center running an event center running a center running an event center running a center running an event center running a theater how how do how do you separate theater how how do how do you separate theater how how do how do you separate that out the entrepreneur but you're that out the entrepreneur but you're that out the entrepreneur but you're really a really a really a pastor yeah yeah and and you know I pastor yeah yeah and and you know I pastor yeah yeah and and you know I sometimes joke that you know I preach sometimes joke that you know I preach sometimes joke that you know I preach for free uh that that you know that's

for free uh that that you know that's for free uh that that you know that's the joy of my life I love to preach the the joy of my life I love to preach the the joy of my life I love to preach the word in season out of season doesn't word in season out of season doesn't word in season out of season doesn't return void God's watching over his word return void God's watching over his word return void God's watching over his word to perform it so I I love that piece um to perform it so I I love that piece um to perform it so I I love that piece um but but we have an incredible team and but but we have an incredible team and but but we have an incredible team and and I I think what you have to do and I I think what you have to do and I I think what you have to do is well I I don't want to turn this into is well I I don't want to turn this into is well I I don't want to turn this into a sermon but ego is the enemy uh if if a sermon but ego is the enemy uh if if a sermon but ego is the enemy uh if if you if if you are insecure you'll you if if you are insecure you'll you if if you are insecure you'll hesitate surrounding yourself with hesitate surrounding yourself with hesitate surrounding yourself with people who are better at you than people who are better at you than people who are better at you than different with at different things and different with at different things and different with at different things and it will put a a low ceiling on whatever it will put a a low ceiling on whatever it will put a a low ceiling on whatever that organization is and and listen all that organization is and and listen all that organization is and and listen all of us are human I tell our church all of us are human I tell our church all of us are human I tell our church all the time as soon as I'm Sanctified I'll the time as soon as I'm Sanctified I'll the time as soon as I'm Sanctified I'll let you you know but I wouldn't hold let you you know but I wouldn't hold let you you know but I wouldn't hold your breath like you know when when we your breath like you know when when we your breath like you know when when we have a guest speaker Carrie was it was have a guest speaker Carrie was it was have a guest speaker Carrie was it was it this way for you you wanted him to do it this way for you you wanted him to do it this way for you you wanted him to do good but not too good oh yeah 100% but we we have some uh Brilliant 100% but we we have some uh Brilliant Minds and uh just incredible hearts that Minds and uh just incredible hearts that Minds and uh just incredible hearts that have helped us get to hear and so I have helped us get to hear and so I have helped us get to hear and so I think you continue to delegate Elevate think you continue to delegate Elevate think you continue to delegate Elevate delegate Elevate and we're we're in that delegate Elevate and we're we're in that delegate Elevate and we're we're in that process again where I'm handing off a process again where I'm handing off a process again where I'm handing off a few of my my titles few of my my titles few of my my titles uh which I'm not a title guy you can uh which I'm not a title guy you can uh which I'm not a title guy you can just call me Mark um but I I I am just call me Mark um but I I I am just call me Mark um but I I I am transitioning into more of a Lead transitioning into more of a Lead transitioning into more of a Lead Teacher and Lead Visionary role and yeah Teacher and Lead Visionary role and yeah Teacher and Lead Visionary role and yeah I used to do the the counseling weddings

I used to do the the counseling weddings I used to do the the counseling weddings um kind of the the weekend day in and um kind of the the weekend day in and um kind of the the weekend day in and day out sort of ministry but I mean we day out sort of ministry but I mean we day out sort of ministry but I mean we have an incredible staff that does a lot have an incredible staff that does a lot have an incredible staff that does a lot of that at this point and you know 29 of that at this point and you know 29 of that at this point and you know 29 years in your portfolio should a little years in your portfolio should a little years in your portfolio should a little different I think than when you started different I think than when you started different I think than when you started so I've just taken on a few of the so I've just taken on a few of the so I've just taken on a few of the things that I just really really enjoy things that I just really really enjoy things that I just really really enjoy and real estate real estate development and real estate real estate development and real estate real estate development H happens to be one of them like 12 H happens to be one of them like 12 H happens to be one of them like 12 chapters in The Book of Exodus were chapters in The Book of Exodus were chapters in The Book of Exodus were devoted to the Aesthetics of the devoted to the Aesthetics of the devoted to the Aesthetics of the Tabernacle so you know don't tell me Tabernacle so you know don't tell me Tabernacle so you know don't tell me it's not important like write down to it's not important like write down to it's not important like write down to the color of the curtains and uh by the the color of the curtains and uh by the the color of the curtains and uh by the way check out Exodus 26:14 man I love way check out Exodus 26:14 man I love way check out Exodus 26:14 man I love this it says uh hey in the ceiling of this it says uh hey in the ceiling of this it says uh hey in the ceiling of the Tabernacle put some dolphin skins the Tabernacle put some dolphin skins the Tabernacle put some dolphin skins now the Hebrew there is very confusing now the Hebrew there is very confusing now the Hebrew there is very confusing so I want to say that up front uh in so I want to say that up front uh in so I want to say that up front uh in some translations it's translated Badger some translations it's translated Badger some translations it's translated Badger uh in others I think it's like um you uh in others I think it's like um you uh in others I think it's like um you know a steel skin or or porpus but but know a steel skin or or porpus but but know a steel skin or or porpus but but here here is what according to rabbi here here is what according to rabbi here here is what according to rabbi tradition Carrie when they when God made tradition Carrie when they when God made tradition Carrie when they when God made a sidewalk through the sea uh some of a sidewalk through the sea uh some of a sidewalk through the sea uh some of the Dolphins in the Red Sea and we know the Dolphins in the Red Sea and we know the Dolphins in the Red Sea and we know there are dolphins in the Red Sea um there are dolphins in the Red Sea um there are dolphins in the Red Sea um they did not survive and God told them they did not survive and God told them they did not survive and God told them to keep those skins and and then he told to keep those skins and and then he told to keep those skins and and then he told them to make them the cysteine chapel them to make them the cysteine chapel them to make them the cysteine chapel the ceiling of that Tabernacle well stop the ceiling of that Tabernacle well stop the ceiling of that Tabernacle well stop and think about it stop and think about and think about it stop and think about and think about it stop and think about it like every time they looked up they

it like every time they looked up they it like every time they looked up they were reminded of the most amazing were reminded of the most amazing were reminded of the most amazing miracle that God had ever done if he miracle that God had ever done if he miracle that God had ever done if he made a sidewalk through the sea we can made a sidewalk through the sea we can made a sidewalk through the sea we can believe him for the challenge that we're believe him for the challenge that we're believe him for the challenge that we're in right now so so I love the Nuance in in right now so so I love the Nuance in in right now so so I love the Nuance in Exodus in terms of right down to the Exodus in terms of right down to the Exodus in terms of right down to the incense that would stamp the old factory incense that would stamp the old factory incense that would stamp the old factory nerve and we know that that smell and nerve and we know that that smell and nerve and we know that that smell and memory are so interrelated that I just memory are so interrelated that I just memory are so interrelated that I just think these things are important and uh think these things are important and uh think these things are important and uh and I I find a lot of Joy um I'm not an and I I find a lot of Joy um I'm not an and I I find a lot of Joy um I'm not an interior designer but I love fun I love interior designer but I love fun I love interior designer but I love fun I love a space that that sinks well when you a space that that sinks well when you a space that that sinks well when you toured me through the new building the toured me through the new building the toured me through the new building the capital turnaround you were showing me capital turnaround you were showing me capital turnaround you were showing me all of the design details in it it's all of the design details in it it's all of the design details in it it's beautiful and actually that came from beautiful and actually that came from beautiful and actually that came from your mind like you spent quite a bit your mind like you spent quite a bit your mind like you spent quite a bit time on on the design of it I imagine time on on the design of it I imagine time on on the design of it I imagine the same was true of ebener true like the same was true of ebener true like the same was true of ebener true like you had a a vision um so that gave you a you had a a vision um so that gave you a you had a a vision um so that gave you a little bit of a a palette to paint with little bit of a a palette to paint with little bit of a a palette to paint with yeah you you you know once we knew we yeah you you you know once we knew we yeah you you you know once we knew we were going to open a coffee house I were going to open a coffee house I were going to open a coffee house I never went into a coffee house where my never went into a coffee house where my never went into a coffee house where my retic activating system didn't notice retic activating system didn't notice retic activating system didn't notice kind of everything about it and and then kind of everything about it and and then kind of everything about it and and then we started visiting food halls in we started visiting food halls in we started visiting food halls in marketplaces whe whether it's you know marketplaces whe whether it's you know marketplaces whe whether it's you know Anaheim Packing House in LA or Armature Anaheim Packing House in LA or Armature Anaheim Packing House in LA or Armature Works in tamper or Denver milk market Works in tamper or Denver milk market Works in tamper or Denver milk market and I I can even tell you spots where and I I can even tell you spots where and I I can even tell you spots where hey we did tile here wood there or hey we did tile here wood there or hey we did tile here wood there or different features that that I can trace different features that that I can trace different features that that I can trace it back to the the inspiration um so I

it back to the the inspiration um so I it back to the the inspiration um so I just think the idea of Designing spaces just think the idea of Designing spaces just think the idea of Designing spaces now I want to be careful here because I now I want to be careful here because I now I want to be careful here because I I don't know I'll probably get in I don't know I'll probably get in I don't know I'll probably get in trouble for saying this but anything trouble for saying this but anything trouble for saying this but anything less than Spirit-filled and spirit-led less than Spirit-filled and spirit-led less than Spirit-filled and spirit-led to me is dead religion like without the to me is dead religion like without the to me is dead religion like without the Holy Spirit like we're just playing Holy Spirit like we're just playing Holy Spirit like we're just playing Church um so I'm a guy that uh believes Church um so I'm a guy that uh believes Church um so I'm a guy that uh believes in the gifts of the Spirit um uh we need in the gifts of the Spirit um uh we need in the gifts of the Spirit um uh we need the fruit of the spirit so uh not by the fruit of the spirit so uh not by the fruit of the spirit so uh not by might nor by power but by my spirit might nor by power but by my spirit might nor by power but by my spirit sayeth the Lord so you you could design sayeth the Lord so you you could design sayeth the Lord so you you could design a beautiful building but if God isn't a beautiful building but if God isn't a beautiful building but if God isn't moving and working and there isn't a moving and working and there isn't a moving and working and there isn't a freedom of just the wind of the the freedom of just the wind of the the freedom of just the wind of the the Spirit uh I don't know what that is but Spirit uh I don't know what that is but Spirit uh I don't know what that is but it's not church and so I want to be it's not church and so I want to be it's not church and so I want to be careful but I think it's both and carry careful but I think it's both and carry careful but I think it's both and carry it's it's um it's not either or I I it's it's um it's not either or I I it's it's um it's not either or I I think it's both and uh I want to talk a think it's both and uh I want to talk a think it's both and uh I want to talk a little bit about donor development uh little bit about donor development uh little bit about donor development uh and again you're not the kind of guy who and again you're not the kind of guy who and again you're not the kind of guy who probably spends half of his week meeting probably spends half of his week meeting probably spends half of his week meeting with key donors I think I know you well with key donors I think I know you well with key donors I think I know you well enough to say that but you said earlier enough to say that but you said earlier enough to say that but you said earlier Financial integrity and transparency is Financial integrity and transparency is Financial integrity and transparency is really important what were some of the really important what were some of the really important what were some of the turning points to get those little gifts turning points to get those little gifts turning points to get those little gifts and you know everything is Meaningful and you know everything is Meaningful and you know everything is Meaningful everything's sacrificial sometimes the everything's sacrificial sometimes the everything's sacrificial sometimes the $5 was more sacrificial than the 5 $5 was more sacrificial than the 5 $5 was more sacrificial than the 5 million you don't know people's personal million you don't know people's personal million you don't know people's personal estate um but as you began to raise tens estate um but as you began to raise tens estate um but as you began to raise tens of millions of dollars for Ministry Etc

of millions of dollars for Ministry Etc of millions of dollars for Ministry Etc what were some of the turning points what were some of the turning points what were some of the turning points that helped you see donors step up to that helped you see donors step up to that helped you see donors step up to the plate that way yeah let me back up the plate that way yeah let me back up the plate that way yeah let me back up one step and just say a turning point in one step and just say a turning point in one step and just say a turning point in my life for Laura and I uh was when I my life for Laura and I uh was when I my life for Laura and I uh was when I went back and took out the getting goals went back and took out the getting goals went back and took out the getting goals from my life goal list and we turned from my life goal list and we turned from my life goal list and we turned them into giving goals and it changed them into giving goals and it changed them into giving goals and it changed our Paradigm like now to give what what our Paradigm like now to give what what our Paradigm like now to give what what we intend in our heart to give you have we intend in our heart to give you have we intend in our heart to give you have to make a lot of money to give a lot of to make a lot of money to give a lot of to make a lot of money to give a lot of money um but our heart really is to money um but our heart really is to money um but our heart really is to someday reverse tide live off of 10% someday reverse tide live off of 10% someday reverse tide live off of 10% give 90% we love to give and so I I just give 90% we love to give and so I I just give 90% we love to give and so I I just feel like it's a leader you have to walk feel like it's a leader you have to walk feel like it's a leader you have to walk that talk otherwise it's going to ring that talk otherwise it's going to ring that talk otherwise it's going to ring Hollow when you're encouraging people to Hollow when you're encouraging people to Hollow when you're encouraging people to give uh sacrificially so I think it give uh sacrificially so I think it give uh sacrificially so I think it starts with us as Leaders like am I starts with us as Leaders like am I starts with us as Leaders like am I finding Joy on the giving side of life finding Joy on the giving side of life finding Joy on the giving side of life and uh and then uh I don't think we were and uh and then uh I don't think we were and uh and then uh I don't think we were very strategic our first 20 years Carrie very strategic our first 20 years Carrie very strategic our first 20 years Carrie um I didn't know who gave what um and I um I didn't know who gave what um and I um I didn't know who gave what um and I you know I kind of felt like that's a you know I kind of felt like that's a you know I kind of felt like that's a little bit of Pandora's Box and I I little bit of Pandora's Box and I I little bit of Pandora's Box and I I still don't know who gives what but we still don't know who gives what but we still don't know who gives what but we started a few years ago um doing a a started a few years ago um doing a a started a few years ago um doing a a annual gathering for financial leaders annual gathering for financial leaders annual gathering for financial leaders be because we felt like it was insulting be because we felt like it was insulting be because we felt like it was insulting like people who use their talent and like people who use their talent and like people who use their talent and time like we honored them and say thank time like we honored them and say thank time like we honored them and say thank you to them why would we not do that for you to them why would we not do that for you to them why would we not do that for financial leaders who give their

financial leaders who give their financial leaders who give their treasure and and because the truth is treasure and and because the truth is treasure and and because the truth is they traded time and talent for that they traded time and talent for that they traded time and talent for that treasure and then they give it so um so treasure and then they give it so um so treasure and then they give it so um so we just started getting a little bit we just started getting a little bit we just started getting a little bit more strategic in terms of just more strategic in terms of just more strategic in terms of just different ways to say thank you but but different ways to say thank you but but different ways to say thank you but but you know I also think if you kind of you know I also think if you kind of you know I also think if you kind of walk the talk so you you know this and I walk the talk so you you know this and I walk the talk so you you know this and I know we'll talk books uh a little bit know we'll talk books uh a little bit know we'll talk books uh a little bit but you know when I when I write a book but you know when I when I write a book but you know when I when I write a book uh there's about 10 books ago Laura and uh there's about 10 books ago Laura and uh there's about 10 books ago Laura and I said let's just give a copy to I said let's just give a copy to I said let's just give a copy to everybody at NCC as a gift not from the everybody at NCC as a gift not from the everybody at NCC as a gift not from the church and this is important uh from us church and this is important uh from us church and this is important uh from us just a person personal gift and I think just a person personal gift and I think just a person personal gift and I think what happens is you start to create a what happens is you start to create a what happens is you start to create a culture where oh this is kind of fun culture where oh this is kind of fun culture where oh this is kind of fun like uh you you just the the joy of like uh you you just the the joy of like uh you you just the the joy of giving um and uh so so I think people giving um and uh so so I think people giving um and uh so so I think people just started kind of stepping up just started kind of stepping up just started kind of stepping up stepping in we've only done one what stepping in we've only done one what stepping in we've only done one what would be called Capital campaign and one would be called Capital campaign and one would be called Capital campaign and one that's it only one and and it's when that's it only one and and it's when that's it only one and and it's when it's when we were uh purchasing this it's when we were uh purchasing this it's when we were uh purchasing this 29.3 million property that like we 29.3 million property that like we 29.3 million property that like we probably need to do that um now I probably need to do that um now I probably need to do that um now I wouldn't complain if it's the last one wouldn't complain if it's the last one wouldn't complain if it's the last one we ever do your mindset is critical like it has do your mindset is critical like it has to be about uh um helping be people to be about uh um helping be people to be about uh um helping be people become more generous knowing that become more generous knowing that become more generous knowing that there's joy uh as you become generous it

there's joy uh as you become generous it there's joy uh as you become generous it can't be just about like hey it's going can't be just about like hey it's going can't be just about like hey it's going to take x amount of dollars and I I I to take x amount of dollars and I I I to take x amount of dollars and I I I won't throw anybody under the bus but won't throw anybody under the bus but won't throw anybody under the bus but you know we we have some Consultants say you know we we have some Consultants say you know we we have some Consultants say hey um uh when it gets to the ask we we hey um uh when it gets to the ask we we hey um uh when it gets to the ask we we want you to Circle a number and kind of want you to Circle a number and kind of want you to Circle a number and kind of push it across the the table I'm like push it across the the table I'm like push it across the the table I'm like there's no way I'm doing that never done there's no way I'm doing that never done there's no way I'm doing that never done it never gonna do it um we're going to it never gonna do it um we're going to it never gonna do it um we're going to trust the Holy Spirit to move people and trust the Holy Spirit to move people and trust the Holy Spirit to move people and kind of touch their hearts to give kind of touch their hearts to give kind of touch their hearts to give generously so it's just hard it's hard generously so it's just hard it's hard generously so it's just hard it's hard not to sometimes lose your soul in a not to sometimes lose your soul in a not to sometimes lose your soul in a process that is kind of high stakes with process that is kind of high stakes with process that is kind of high stakes with the capital campaign so guard your heart the capital campaign so guard your heart the capital campaign so guard your heart and uh and make make sure um that you and uh and make make sure um that you and uh and make make sure um that you have some spotters in your life because have some spotters in your life because have some spotters in your life because it I I almost like it was almost like it I I almost like it was almost like it I I almost like it was almost like being on the bench press where you put being on the bench press where you put being on the bench press where you put too many plates on and you can't you too many plates on and you can't you too many plates on and you can't you can't do one more rep I almost it made can't do one more rep I almost it made can't do one more rep I almost it made no sense to me do you know the no sense to me do you know the no sense to me do you know the percentage of pastors that quit after a percentage of pastors that quit after a percentage of pastors that quit after a building project do you remember that building project do you remember that building project do you remember that number I don't remember the stat but number I don't remember the stat but number I don't remember the stat but it's like within 6 months is it half of it's like within 6 months is it half of it's like within 6 months is it half of pastors quit or something huge it is I pastors quit or something huge it is I pastors quit or something huge it is I think it's over half and Terri I I never think it's over half and Terri I I never think it's over half and Terri I I never understood it because I thought to understood it because I thought to understood it because I thought to myself well once you get the building myself well once you get the building myself well once you get the building built like now you're in the promised built like now you're in the promised built like now you're in the promised land but I I totally get it it's so land but I I totally get it it's so land but I I totally get it it's so draining that that it can just Crush you draining that that it can just Crush you draining that that it can just Crush you kind of under the pressure so um I just kind of under the pressure so um I just kind of under the pressure so um I just think how we approach those Seasons we

think how we approach those Seasons we think how we approach those Seasons we we better be in a good spiritual spot uh we better be in a good spiritual spot uh we better be in a good spiritual spot uh before we go into those kind of before we go into those kind of before we go into those kind of campaigns well that's what I I really campaigns well that's what I I really campaigns well that's what I I really was excited about this conversation mark was excited about this conversation mark was excited about this conversation mark because you don't strike me as the kind because you don't strike me as the kind because you don't strike me as the kind of person who's sitting with a pencil in of person who's sitting with a pencil in of person who's sitting with a pencil in your ear in a spreadsheet going I'm your ear in a spreadsheet going I'm your ear in a spreadsheet going I'm going to squeeze Carrie for X number of going to squeeze Carrie for X number of going to squeeze Carrie for X number of dollars you're the opposite of that so I dollars you're the opposite of that so I dollars you're the opposite of that so I got to ask the question that everybody got to ask the question that everybody got to ask the question that everybody listening and watching is probably listening and watching is probably listening and watching is probably asking which is okay one Capital asking which is okay one Capital asking which is okay one Capital campaign in 30 years and you've raised campaign in 30 years and you've raised campaign in 30 years and you've raised probably easy math over 100 million probably easy math over 100 million probably easy math over 100 million dollar for Ministry which is dollar for Ministry which is dollar for Ministry which is incredible so what happened one Capital incredible so what happened one Capital incredible so what happened one Capital campaign pain how how does this keep campaign pain how how does this keep campaign pain how how does this keep going how and I know you write books on going how and I know you write books on going how and I know you write books on Miracles so feel free to go there but Miracles so feel free to go there but Miracles so feel free to go there but like there i' I'd love to know the like there i' I'd love to know the like there i' I'd love to know the strategy behind the the the uh approach strategy behind the the the uh approach strategy behind the the the uh approach too and if it's like just trust God and too and if it's like just trust God and too and if it's like just trust God and people will give cool I'm just curious people will give cool I'm just curious people will give cool I'm just curious well I shouldn't do this but can I tip well I shouldn't do this but can I tip well I shouldn't do this but can I tip my cap because I'm researching the next my cap because I'm researching the next my cap because I'm researching the next book we haven't even talked about the book we haven't even talked about the book we haven't even talked about the the current book yeah but um the the the current book yeah but um the the the current book yeah but um the the working working working title is gradually then title is gradually then title is gradually then suddenly and it comes from an Irma suddenly and it comes from an Irma suddenly and it comes from an Irma Ernest Hemingway novel uh part of why I Ernest Hemingway novel uh part of why I Ernest Hemingway novel uh part of why I hesitate doing this is I I whenever I hesitate doing this is I I whenever I hesitate doing this is I I whenever I feel like I have a good idea I try to feel like I have a good idea I try to feel like I have a good idea I try to keep it under my hat until the book's keep it under my hat until the book's keep it under my hat until the book's actually out so nobody's listening so actually out so nobody's listening so actually out so nobody's listening so that's fine or we can cut it out we're that's fine or we can cut it out we're that's fine or we can cut it out we're good then um so uh in that novel The Sun

good then um so uh in that novel The Sun good then um so uh in that novel The Sun Also Rises uh he asked the question how Also Rises uh he asked the question how Also Rises uh he asked the question how do you how did you go Bank R and the the do you how did you go Bank R and the the do you how did you go Bank R and the the rather Infamous reply was two ways rather Infamous reply was two ways rather Infamous reply was two ways gradually then suddenly and so Carrie gradually then suddenly and so Carrie gradually then suddenly and so Carrie this idea that that's how you go this idea that that's how you go this idea that that's how you go bankrupt but that's also how you become bankrupt but that's also how you become bankrupt but that's also how you become financially independent it's how you financially independent it's how you financially independent it's how you write a book it's how you run a marathon write a book it's how you run a marathon write a book it's how you run a marathon frankly it's how you do everything it's frankly it's how you do everything it's frankly it's how you do everything it's how Pentecost happens it's how Jericho how Pentecost happens it's how Jericho how Pentecost happens it's how Jericho happens like it's gonna happen gradually happens like it's gonna happen gradually happens like it's gonna happen gradually then suddenly and so that's kind of our then suddenly and so that's kind of our then suddenly and so that's kind of our story over 29 years story over 29 years story over 29 years you know the first 15 there was nothing you know the first 15 there was nothing you know the first 15 there was nothing really really really remarkable um just we're going to stay remarkable um just we're going to stay remarkable um just we're going to stay long obedience in the same direction long obedience in the same direction long obedience in the same direction we're just going to keep on keeping on we're just going to keep on keeping on we're just going to keep on keeping on and over time the the Lord just began to and over time the the Lord just began to and over time the the Lord just began to compound interest and and I really would compound interest and and I really would compound interest and and I really would point to we have never sacrificed our point to we have never sacrificed our point to we have never sacrificed our missions giving that we we we tithe on missions giving that we we we tithe on missions giving that we we we tithe on people's tithe so our first 10% um people's tithe so our first 10% um people's tithe so our first 10% um and and we average about 177% out of our and and we average about 177% out of our and and we average about 177% out of our general budget that just goes right to general budget that just goes right to general budget that just goes right to missions and this year we up the Annie missions and this year we up the Annie missions and this year we up the Annie we'll be um above we'll be um above we'll be um above 25% because we want to we want to raise 25% because we want to we want to raise 25% because we want to we want to raise that bar and it goes back to this core that bar and it goes back to this core that bar and it goes back to this core conviction that God's going to bless us conviction that God's going to bless us conviction that God's going to bless us in proportion to how we care for the in proportion to how we care for the in proportion to how we care for the poor in our city and give to missions poor in our city and give to missions poor in our city and give to missions and so Carrie when we gave that first and so Carrie when we gave that first and so Carrie when we gave that first $50 check essentially what we were doing

$50 check essentially what we were doing $50 check essentially what we were doing was we were standing on Luke 638 given was we were standing on Luke 638 given was we were standing on Luke 638 given it'll be given under you good measure it'll be given under you good measure it'll be given under you good measure pressed down shaking together running pressed down shaking together running pressed down shaking together running over will be poured into your lap or over will be poured into your lap or over will be poured into your lap or with the measure you use it will be with the measure you use it will be with the measure you use it will be measured under you and and we're just measured under you and and we're just measured under you and and we're just going to keep doing that we're gonna going to keep doing that we're gonna going to keep doing that we're gonna keep keep doing it and uh and so our our keep keep doing it and uh and so our our keep keep doing it and uh and so our our goal this year I think we're targeting goal this year I think we're targeting goal this year I think we're targeting 3.8 million in missions giving and and 3.8 million in missions giving and and 3.8 million in missions giving and and what a joy and and I I dream of the day what a joy and and I I dream of the day what a joy and and I I dream of the day that we're given 10 then 15 then 20 um that we're given 10 then 15 then 20 um that we're given 10 then 15 then 20 um and uh if that's your heart I if if you and uh if that's your heart I if if you and uh if that's your heart I if if you are doing what is near and dear to the are doing what is near and dear to the are doing what is near and dear to the heart of God I'm not worried about our heart of God I'm not worried about our heart of God I'm not worried about our bottom line because God's got our back bottom line because God's got our back bottom line because God's got our back he has showing us that over 29 years so he has showing us that over 29 years so he has showing us that over 29 years so that's how we're going to continue to that's how we're going to continue to that's how we're going to continue to try our best to to operate um even try our best to to operate um even try our best to to operate um even coming into the year um I just was at coming into the year um I just was at coming into the year um I just was at the altar praying right before the new the altar praying right before the new the altar praying right before the new year and I just felt like I jott it in year and I just felt like I jott it in year and I just felt like I jott it in my journal I felt like the Lord said uh my journal I felt like the Lord said uh my journal I felt like the Lord said uh Mark going into this year Mark going into this year Mark going into this year openhearted openhearted openhearted open-handed open-handed open-handed open-minded and uh just watch if it's open-minded and uh just watch if it's open-minded and uh just watch if it's not one of those open Heaven seasons and not one of those open Heaven seasons and not one of those open Heaven seasons and and we're experiencing it right now um and we're experiencing it right now um and we're experiencing it right now um we're we are in an Amos 9113 moment we're we are in an Amos 9113 moment we're we are in an Amos 9113 moment where the uh the plower and the reaper where the uh the plower and the reaper where the uh the plower and the reaper are catching each other where it's a are catching each other where it's a are catching each other where it's a it's a sovereign it's a sovereign it's a sovereign acceleration where um not at Liberty to

acceleration where um not at Liberty to acceleration where um not at Liberty to talk about it but but by the time this talk about it but but by the time this talk about it but but by the time this podcast podcast podcast releases I think we'll add two releases I think we'll add two releases I think we'll add two properties to our portfolio and what's properties to our portfolio and what's properties to our portfolio and what's crazy is we actually won't put our name crazy is we actually won't put our name crazy is we actually won't put our name on them we don't really intend to use on them we don't really intend to use on them we don't really intend to use them as National Community Church we them as National Community Church we them as National Community Church we just feel like they belong in the just feel like they belong in the just feel like they belong in the Kingdom what one is an 1886 church built Kingdom what one is an 1886 church built Kingdom what one is an 1886 church built by former slaves in a part of our city by former slaves in a part of our city by former slaves in a part of our city that only two churches survived uh that only two churches survived uh that only two churches survived uh building the express way through and building the express way through and building the express way through and it's too historic I'm just I'm tired of it's too historic I'm just I'm tired of it's too historic I'm just I'm tired of developers buying these old church developers buying these old church developers buying these old church buildings and turning them into condos buildings and turning them into condos buildings and turning them into condos like let's do the opposite let let's like let's do the opposite let let's like let's do the opposite let let's make sure that we preserve some of these make sure that we preserve some of these make sure that we preserve some of these sacred sacred sacred spaces and I don't think they're for us spaces and I don't think they're for us spaces and I don't think they're for us I was outside praying in front of one of I was outside praying in front of one of I was outside praying in front of one of them and I just felt like the Lord them and I just felt like the Lord them and I just felt like the Lord whispered future Generations will thank whispered future Generations will thank whispered future Generations will thank you and so it's we think right here you and so it's we think right here you and so it's we think right here right now God is thinking Nations and right now God is thinking Nations and right now God is thinking Nations and generations we have a hard time generations we have a hard time generations we have a hard time believing God for cities God says ask of believing God for cities God says ask of believing God for cities God says ask of me and I will give the nation so Lord me and I will give the nation so Lord me and I will give the nation so Lord expand our vision like by definition a expand our vision like by definition a expand our vision like by definition a god-sized dream is beyond our ability god-sized dream is beyond our ability god-sized dream is beyond our ability beyond our resources beyond our beyond our resources beyond our beyond our resources beyond our education you can't do it but God but education you can't do it but God but education you can't do it but God but God can and uh I just feel like the Holy God can and uh I just feel like the Holy God can and uh I just feel like the Holy Spirit wanted to drop that into Spirit wanted to drop that into Spirit wanted to drop that into someone's heart today and so uh trusting someone's heart today and so uh trusting someone's heart today and so uh trusting that that'll take root bear fruit in uh that that'll take root bear fruit in uh that that'll take root bear fruit in uh in people's lives h I love the first of

in people's lives h I love the first of in people's lives h I love the first of all thank you for buying those all thank you for buying those all thank you for buying those properties I don't know who's going to properties I don't know who's going to properties I don't know who's going to benefit and secondly I love the benefit and secondly I love the benefit and secondly I love the gradually and suddenly framework that's gradually and suddenly framework that's gradually and suddenly framework that's that explains a lot on the positive and that explains a lot on the positive and that explains a lot on the positive and on the negative um you did mention on the negative um you did mention on the negative um you did mention something that's really important we've something that's really important we've something that's really important we've talked about it with Chris with Lee talked about it with Chris with Lee talked about it with Chris with Lee domain on this podcast but for those who domain on this podcast but for those who domain on this podcast but for those who may not be familiar with that budgeting may not be familiar with that budgeting may not be familiar with that budgeting strategy the live off 90% of what you strategy the live off 90% of what you strategy the live off 90% of what you took in last year can you walk us took in last year can you walk us took in last year can you walk us through that because it is such a you're through that because it is such a you're through that because it is such a you're like well how do do you get money like well how do do you get money like well how do do you get money without a capital campaign the answer is without a capital campaign the answer is without a capital campaign the answer is take out your pencils and listen to what take out your pencils and listen to what take out your pencils and listen to what Mark's going to tell you now yeah well Mark's going to tell you now yeah well Mark's going to tell you now yeah well and uh I'll give the full the the full and uh I'll give the full the the full and uh I'll give the full the the full story but I want to give full credit I I story but I want to give full credit I I story but I want to give full credit I I it was I was at an event shared a a car it was I was at an event shared a a car it was I was at an event shared a a car ride back to the airport with Chris ride back to the airport with Chris ride back to the airport with Chris Hodges and uh Chris just mentioned that Hodges and uh Chris just mentioned that Hodges and uh Chris just mentioned that they budget to 90% of their previous they budget to 90% of their previous they budget to 90% of their previous year's income and Carrie that was so year's income and Carrie that was so year's income and Carrie that was so foreign to me at first I thought that foreign to me at first I thought that foreign to me at first I thought that sounds like a lack of faith like what sounds like a lack of faith like what sounds like a lack of faith like what are you doing um because at the time are you doing um because at the time are you doing um because at the time like we were blowing and going so we like we were blowing and going so we like we were blowing and going so we would budget to maybe 112% 117 like would budget to maybe 112% 117 like would budget to maybe 112% 117 like whatever whatever was happening the whatever whatever was happening the whatever whatever was happening the previous year we would just go for it previous year we would just go for it previous year we would just go for it this plus more right yeah so here's what this plus more right yeah so here's what this plus more right yeah so here's what happened this was about 10 years ago uh happened this was about 10 years ago uh happened this was about 10 years ago uh we started stepping back 1% at a time we started stepping back 1% at a time we started stepping back 1% at a time because we couldn't get there overnight because we couldn't get there overnight because we couldn't get there overnight you it's without letting people go you you it's without letting people go you you it's without letting people go you it's hard to cut 10% so uh we went 99 it's hard to cut 10% so uh we went 99 it's hard to cut 10% so uh we went 99 998 eventually got to 90% 998 eventually got to 90% 998 eventually got to 90% well that that means uh this year uh one

well that that means uh this year uh one well that that means uh this year uh one of the properties that we'll purchase um of the properties that we'll purchase um of the properties that we'll purchase um uh is about a a $2.1 million purchase uh is about a a $2.1 million purchase uh is about a a $2.1 million purchase and here's what's fun our underage on and here's what's fun our underage on and here's what's fun our underage on expense and our overage on income from expense and our overage on income from expense and our overage on income from last last last year is 2.1 million so literally so year is 2.1 million so literally so year is 2.1 million so literally so literally because of solid Financial literally because of solid Financial literally because of solid Financial practices we can take what was just kind practices we can take what was just kind practices we can take what was just kind of good kind of conservative budgeting of good kind of conservative budgeting of good kind of conservative budgeting but but fiscal discipline we can then but but fiscal discipline we can then but but fiscal discipline we can then make kind of pretty dramatic uh Kingdom make kind of pretty dramatic uh Kingdom make kind of pretty dramatic uh Kingdom moves and and listen and our our moves and and listen and our our moves and and listen and our our income's nowhere near what Church of the income's nowhere near what Church of the income's nowhere near what Church of the Highlands is um but it's but it's enough Highlands is um but it's but it's enough Highlands is um but it's but it's enough to make enough of a difference that uh to make enough of a difference that uh to make enough of a difference that uh over time I think if you learn to budget over time I think if you learn to budget over time I think if you learn to budget that way then it then it allows you to that way then it then it allows you to that way then it then it allows you to make some bold moves uh for the kingdom make some bold moves uh for the kingdom make some bold moves uh for the kingdom and one other thing it will do when when and one other thing it will do when when and one other thing it will do when when Co hit we were at about we're probably Co hit we were at about we're probably Co hit we were at about we're probably down to what then 95% down to what then 95% down to what then 95% 94% well we 94% well we 94% well we uh we didn't take a huge hit but for uh we didn't take a huge hit but for uh we didn't take a huge hit but for about three years um we our our giving about three years um we our our giving about three years um we our our giving went down for about three years at about went down for about three years at about went down for about three years at about a two to three% clip a two to three% clip a two to three% clip which listen I am not complaining um and which listen I am not complaining um and which listen I am not complaining um and and we bounced back this last year and

and we bounced back this last year and and we bounced back this last year and and back on the incline um but I didn't and back on the incline um but I didn't and back on the incline um but I didn't lose sleep lose sleep lose sleep because we had enough margin in the because we had enough margin in the because we had enough margin in the budget that we didn't have to take any budget that we didn't have to take any budget that we didn't have to take any drastic measures so that's I think drastic measures so that's I think drastic measures so that's I think that's part of the payoff um that it it that's part of the payoff um that it it that's part of the payoff um that it it it kind of saves you on both sides it's it kind of saves you on both sides it's it kind of saves you on both sides it's such a gift to be able to do it that way such a gift to be able to do it that way such a gift to be able to do it that way and just for real simple math if you and just for real simple math if you and just for real simple math if you have a budget of a million doar let no have a budget of a million doar let no have a budget of a million doar let no let's say you took in a million dollar let's say you took in a million dollar let's say you took in a million dollar last year your budget this year is last year your budget this year is last year your budget this year is $900,000 that's it correct so you $900,000 that's it correct so you $900,000 that's it correct so you automatically have $100,000 in the bank automatically have $100,000 in the bank automatically have $100,000 in the bank by December 31st and let's say you grew by December 31st and let's say you grew by December 31st and let's say you grew by 10% well surprise surprise you have by 10% well surprise surprise you have by 10% well surprise surprise you have 200,000 in the bank by December 31st and 200,000 in the bank by December 31st and 200,000 in the bank by December 31st and then the next year's budget is 90% of then the next year's budget is 90% of then the next year's budget is 90% of what you took in and that has an effect what you took in and that has an effect what you took in and that has an effect of you know suddenly or or gradually and of you know suddenly or or gradually and of you know suddenly or or gradually and then suddenly next thing you know you've then suddenly next thing you know you've then suddenly next thing you know you've got a million extra in the bank or got a million extra in the bank or got a million extra in the bank or whatever so uh a really I I got to ask whatever so uh a really I I got to ask whatever so uh a really I I got to ask you this question too you this question too you this question too Mark your energy your passion 29 years Mark your energy your passion 29 years Mark your energy your passion 29 years in it's so strong what what keeps in it's so strong what what keeps in it's so strong what what keeps fueling you because you know a lot of fueling you because you know a lot of fueling you because you know a lot of leaders I was talking with some some leaders I was talking with some some leaders I was talking with some some pastors some mutual friends last week pastors some mutual friends last week pastors some mutual friends last week and they were saying you know a lot of and they were saying you know a lot of and they were saying you know a lot of pastors hit a wall at 20 years and pastors hit a wall at 20 years and pastors hit a wall at 20 years and you're you're going strong and it you're you're going strong and it you're you're going strong and it doesn't feel like you're hitting a wall doesn't feel like you're hitting a wall doesn't feel like you're hitting a wall at 29 almost at 29 almost at 29 almost what what are some keys to keeping your what what are some keys to keeping your what what are some keys to keeping your passion and your motivation and your passion and your motivation and your passion and your motivation and your spirit fresh over the Long Haul yeah

spirit fresh over the Long Haul yeah spirit fresh over the Long Haul yeah well I I have down days Carrie and you well I I have down days Carrie and you well I I have down days Carrie and you can't lead something for 29 years and it can't lead something for 29 years and it can't lead something for 29 years and it not be a roller coaster so they're going not be a roller coaster so they're going not be a roller coaster so they're going to be high highs and low lows um but I I to be high highs and low lows um but I I to be high highs and low lows um but I I have some good guard rails in place that have some good guard rails in place that have some good guard rails in place that you know when I'm when I'm discouraged you know when I'm when I'm discouraged you know when I'm when I'm discouraged I'm grateful have an 82y old spiritual I'm grateful have an 82y old spiritual I'm grateful have an 82y old spiritual father who father who father who uh he and his wife Dick and Ruth F were uh he and his wife Dick and Ruth F were uh he and his wife Dick and Ruth F were part of our original Core group of 19 part of our original Core group of 19 part of our original Core group of 19 people to have someone like that in your people to have someone like that in your people to have someone like that in your life is a gift because when I was super life is a gift because when I was super life is a gift because when I was super discouraged during covid like that's discouraged during covid like that's discouraged during covid like that's someone who could say hey you should someone who could say hey you should someone who could say hey you should have been here in have been here in have been here in 1968 wow like so you you need 1968 wow like so you you need 1968 wow like so you you need perspective um I I would also say that perspective um I I would also say that perspective um I I would also say that you have to keep a future tense uh you have to keep a future tense uh you have to keep a future tense uh perspective so you know our first perspective so you know our first perspective so you know our first attempt at church planning failed and attempt at church planning failed and attempt at church planning failed and you know about a year into our second you know about a year into our second you know about a year into our second attempt here in DC it wasn't looking attempt here in DC it wasn't looking attempt here in DC it wasn't looking good and we could have quit on 19 people good and we could have quit on 19 people good and we could have quit on 19 people but I think what you have to remember is but I think what you have to remember is but I think what you have to remember is you aren't quitting on whatever's you aren't quitting on whatever's you aren't quitting on whatever's happening present tense uh you're happening present tense uh you're happening present tense uh you're quitting on whatever God would do future quitting on whatever God would do future quitting on whatever God would do future tense so we would have been quitting on tense so we would have been quitting on tense so we would have been quitting on uh tens of thousands of people that uh tens of thousands of people that uh tens of thousands of people that we've had the joy of pastoring and we've had the joy of pastoring and we've had the joy of pastoring and influencing over the years and by the influencing over the years and by the influencing over the years and by the way for those pastors who are way for those pastors who are way for those pastors who are discouraged because you haven't you're discouraged because you haven't you're discouraged because you haven't you're not back to preco places uh in terms of not back to preco places uh in terms of not back to preco places uh in terms of it tenants or other things listen don't it tenants or other things listen don't it tenants or other things listen don't don't bu the lie that that you're judged don't bu the lie that that you're judged don't bu the lie that that you're judged in a snapshot uh Ministry along with in a snapshot uh Ministry along with in a snapshot uh Ministry along with everything else is cumulative effect

everything else is cumulative effect everything else is cumulative effect it's it's your the full kind of body of it's it's your the full kind of body of it's it's your the full kind of body of work if you will is the way it would be work if you will is the way it would be work if you will is the way it would be put in in athletics um so there there's put in in athletics um so there there's put in in athletics um so there there's a cumulative effect in a compound a cumulative effect in a compound a cumulative effect in a compound interest but I I think you know Emily interest but I I think you know Emily interest but I I think you know Emily Dickinson said dwell in possibility and Dickinson said dwell in possibility and Dickinson said dwell in possibility and Carrie I don't know what it is that's Carrie I don't know what it is that's Carrie I don't know what it is that's just the way I'm wired like we our our just the way I'm wired like we our our just the way I'm wired like we our our family kind of jokes that um you know family kind of jokes that um you know family kind of jokes that um you know every day I wake up wondering if today every day I wake up wondering if today every day I wake up wondering if today is the day I'm gonna win the lottery and is the day I'm gonna win the lottery and is the day I'm gonna win the lottery and I don't even play the lottery like I don't even play the lottery like I don't even play the lottery like that's just kind of the way it's kind of that's just kind of the way it's kind of that's just kind of the way it's kind of the way I'm wired but um I've the way I'm wired but um I've the way I'm wired but um I've experienced too many miracles not to experienced too many miracles not to experienced too many miracles not to believe God for the next one and I'll believe God for the next one and I'll believe God for the next one and I'll throw this in there I had to get grief throw this in there I had to get grief throw this in there I had to get grief counseling on the heels of Co I I didn't counseling on the heels of Co I I didn't counseling on the heels of Co I I didn't realize it but we had 1500 people realize it but we had 1500 people realize it but we had 1500 people evaporate Into Thin Air uh when we came evaporate Into Thin Air uh when we came evaporate Into Thin Air uh when we came back a year and two weeks later um and back a year and two weeks later um and back a year and two weeks later um and uh it was depressing and I I I didn't uh it was depressing and I I I didn't uh it was depressing and I I I didn't identify it but a wiser older Pastor in identify it but a wiser older Pastor in identify it but a wiser older Pastor in my life said Mark you're experiencing my life said Mark you're experiencing my life said Mark you're experiencing grief and just go go deal with it work grief and just go go deal with it work grief and just go go deal with it work through it and uh and Carrie I did through it and uh and Carrie I did through it and uh and Carrie I did wonder it was a moment where I wondered wonder it was a moment where I wondered wonder it was a moment where I wondered do do I have one more run in me do I do do I have one more run in me do I do do I have one more run in me do I have what it takes to kind of lead us have what it takes to kind of lead us have what it takes to kind of lead us back from because we step back about 10 back from because we step back about 10 back from because we step back about 10 years in years in years in attendance and and that's attendance and and that's attendance and and that's discouraging uh but I will say this we discouraging uh but I will say this we discouraging uh but I will say this we we started thinking in very different

we started thinking in very different we started thinking in very different categories I mean we're we're categories I mean we're we're categories I mean we're we're influencing uh in person online real influencing uh in person online real influencing uh in person online real time and On Demand far more people uh time and On Demand far more people uh time and On Demand far more people uh than we were than we were than we were preco um but not measuring it in in preco um but not measuring it in in preco um but not measuring it in in quite the same way really f focus on the quite the same way really f focus on the quite the same way really f focus on the sending capacity versus the seating sending capacity versus the seating sending capacity versus the seating capacity and uh so you know I just think capacity and uh so you know I just think capacity and uh so you know I just think you got to continue to focus on inputs you got to continue to focus on inputs you got to continue to focus on inputs on the lead measures let God take care on the lead measures let God take care on the lead measures let God take care of the lag measures the outcomes keep of the lag measures the outcomes keep of the lag measures the outcomes keep planting and watering God will give the planting and watering God will give the planting and watering God will give the increase and uh so that's a it's a mind increase and uh so that's a it's a mind increase and uh so that's a it's a mind it's it's gradually then suddenly it's it's gradually then suddenly it's it's gradually then suddenly mindset how um how is your motivation mindset how um how is your motivation mindset how um how is your motivation different now like motiv ating yourself different now like motiv ating yourself different now like motiv ating yourself thank you for sharing about going to thank you for sharing about going to thank you for sharing about going to grief counseling about what happened you grief counseling about what happened you grief counseling about what happened you know in 2020 and Beyond but you know I know in 2020 and Beyond but you know I know in 2020 and Beyond but you know I was talking to Levi lusco recently was talking to Levi lusco recently was talking to Levi lusco recently who'll be on the podcast sharing this who'll be on the podcast sharing this who'll be on the podcast sharing this and he was saying you know you can't and he was saying you know you can't and he was saying you know you can't motivate yourself in your 40s the way motivate yourself in your 40s the way motivate yourself in your 40s the way you did in your 20s or your 30s what's you did in your 20s or your 30s what's you did in your 20s or your 30s what's your experience with that your experience with that your experience with that Mark well there's still fire shut up in Mark well there's still fire shut up in Mark well there's still fire shut up in my bones like I just I just I really my bones like I just I just I really my bones like I just I just I really genuinely genuinely genuinely want everybody to have a relationship want everybody to have a relationship want everybody to have a relationship with the God who created them who knit with the God who created them who knit with the God who created them who knit them together in their mother's womb who them together in their mother's womb who them together in their mother's womb who ordained all the days of their life who ordained all the days of their life who ordained all the days of their life who are who's prepared good works in advance are who's prepared good works in advance are who's prepared good works in advance like I just I'm so grateful that you

like I just I'm so grateful that you like I just I'm so grateful that you know no one else died on a cross for my know no one else died on a cross for my know no one else died on a cross for my sin no one else raised on the third day sin no one else raised on the third day sin no one else raised on the third day like Jesus is the end all and the Beall like Jesus is the end all and the Beall like Jesus is the end all and the Beall and uh I'm I'm going to do my level best and uh I'm I'm going to do my level best and uh I'm I'm going to do my level best to um well do ministry at a healthy Pace to um well do ministry at a healthy Pace to um well do ministry at a healthy Pace like protect the Sabbath um you know like protect the Sabbath um you know like protect the Sabbath um you know take a sabatical when you can and you take a sabatical when you can and you take a sabatical when you can and you know I only preach 26 out of 52 weekends know I only preach 26 out of 52 weekends know I only preach 26 out of 52 weekends at this point so there's a there's a at this point so there's a there's a at this point so there's a there's a rhythm so when I say empty the tank I'm rhythm so when I say empty the tank I'm rhythm so when I say empty the tank I'm not saying burnout I just want to make not saying burnout I just want to make not saying burnout I just want to make sure that that I'm squeezing the time sure that that I'm squeezing the time sure that that I'm squeezing the time talent and treasure that God's given to talent and treasure that God's given to talent and treasure that God's given to me and just uh I I'm not the motivation me and just uh I I'm not the motivation me and just uh I I'm not the motivation is not extrinsic that just Never Last is not extrinsic that just Never Last is not extrinsic that just Never Last it's got to be intrinsic and uh I know it's got to be intrinsic and uh I know it's got to be intrinsic and uh I know that I'm doing what God's called me to that I'm doing what God's called me to that I'm doing what God's called me to do and but at this point you know Legacy do and but at this point you know Legacy do and but at this point you know Legacy is not what you accomplish Legacy is is not what you accomplish Legacy is is not what you accomplish Legacy is what others accomplish because of you so what others accomplish because of you so what others accomplish because of you so it's discipleship is growing fruit on it's discipleship is growing fruit on it's discipleship is growing fruit on other people's trees so a couple of other people's trees so a couple of other people's trees so a couple of years ago when we decided to spin cycle years ago when we decided to spin cycle years ago when we decided to spin cycle our campuses turn them into Network our campuses turn them into Network our campuses turn them into Network churches we we created this thing called churches we we created this thing called churches we we created this thing called The Dream Collective and uh we do a The Dream Collective and uh we do a The Dream Collective and uh we do a renew conference in September open renew conference in September open renew conference in September open invite to that um we we do a cohort of invite to that um we we do a cohort of invite to that um we we do a cohort of pastors where pastors need pastors I pastors where pastors need pastors I pastors where pastors need pastors I love hanging out with about 10 to 12 love hanging out with about 10 to 12 love hanging out with about 10 to 12 pastors at a time and um just trying to

pastors at a time and um just trying to pastors at a time and um just trying to love on them and uh make it less about love on them and uh make it less about love on them and uh make it less about me less about NCC at this point and more me less about NCC at this point and more me less about NCC at this point and more about God let your kingdom come let your about God let your kingdom come let your about God let your kingdom come let your will be done uh in DC as it is is in will be done uh in DC as it is is in will be done uh in DC as it is is in heaven and so just it's a little bit heaven and so just it's a little bit heaven and so just it's a little bit wider mindset like a month ago we had we wider mindset like a month ago we had we wider mindset like a month ago we had we had a couple hundred local pastors had a couple hundred local pastors had a couple hundred local pastors gather uh here at our campus Terry that gather uh here at our campus Terry that gather uh here at our campus Terry that is so hard to get pastors to other is so hard to get pastors to other is so hard to get pastors to other churches but I think we we have been churches but I think we we have been churches but I think we we have been playing the game that not about the name playing the game that not about the name playing the game that not about the name over the church door about the name over the church door about the name over the church door about the name above all names that somehow there's above all names that somehow there's above all names that somehow there's this this kind of camaraderie that's this this kind of camaraderie that's this this kind of camaraderie that's happened in this city that I genuinely happened in this city that I genuinely happened in this city that I genuinely think we were joice uh with each other think we were joice uh with each other think we were joice uh with each other and uh so yeah it's just a little bit of and uh so yeah it's just a little bit of and uh so yeah it's just a little bit of a new season and you know I shared with a new season and you know I shared with a new season and you know I shared with you were're we're new grandparents that you were're we're new grandparents that you were're we're new grandparents that will shift your focus as well so you will shift your focus as well so you will shift your focus as well so you you'll begin to think you'll begin to think you'll begin to think intergenerationally and uh doing what intergenerationally and uh doing what intergenerationally and uh doing what you do for the third and fourth you do for the third and fourth you do for the third and fourth generation oh congrats I mean that's generation oh congrats I mean that's generation oh congrats I mean that's exciting you know one one of the exciting you know one one of the exciting you know one one of the pressure cooker pieces that everybody pressure cooker pieces that everybody pressure cooker pieces that everybody lived through was the political upheaval lived through was the political upheaval lived through was the political upheaval of the last decade um and and you're at of the last decade um and and you're at of the last decade um and and you're at for anybody who hasn't visited NCC I for anybody who hasn't visited NCC I for anybody who hasn't visited NCC I mean literally you could throw a stone mean literally you could throw a stone mean literally you could throw a stone at the capital you're you're you're just at the capital you're you're you're just at the capital you're you're you're just down the road uh from literally blocks down the road uh from literally blocks down the road uh from literally blocks away from the center of power and you away from the center of power and you away from the center of power and you know I thought if there's anybody who's

know I thought if there's anybody who's know I thought if there's anybody who's going to be discouraged anybody who's going to be discouraged anybody who's going to be discouraged anybody who's going to get partisan anybody who's going to get partisan anybody who's going to get partisan anybody who's going to get jacked up or get into going to get jacked up or get into going to get jacked up or get into nationalism or take a stand like it was nationalism or take a stand like it was nationalism or take a stand like it was like you couldn't have baited more than like you couldn't have baited more than like you couldn't have baited more than you bit deed in you bit deed in you bit deed in 2024 and yet you just you know maintain 2024 and yet you just you know maintain 2024 and yet you just you know maintain that neutrality and you love people I that neutrality and you love people I that neutrality and you love people I want to know how you do that because want to know how you do that because want to know how you do that because you're in the middle of it yeah well we you're in the middle of it yeah well we you're in the middle of it yeah well we we made a decision day one we're not we made a decision day one we're not we made a decision day one we're not going to affiliate with a party or a going to affiliate with a party or a going to affiliate with a party or a candidate I just I I think that's a candidate I just I I think that's a candidate I just I I think that's a dangerous it's a slippery slope yeah and dangerous it's a slippery slope yeah and dangerous it's a slippery slope yeah and uh and so we we have maintained now I uh and so we we have maintained now I uh and so we we have maintained now I want to be careful I mean we have had so want to be careful I mean we have had so want to be careful I mean we have had so many members of Congress cabinet members many members of Congress cabinet members many members of Congress cabinet members um executive brand like we've had people um executive brand like we've had people um executive brand like we've had people that have attended our church that you that have attended our church that you that have attended our church that you know um uh you know hold incredible know um uh you know hold incredible know um uh you know hold incredible positions of of power and I want to be positions of of power and I want to be positions of of power and I want to be careful to to say careful to to say careful to to say um let's not just throw stones at DC um let's not just throw stones at DC um let's not just throw stones at DC let's hurl blessings like th listen let's hurl blessings like th listen let's hurl blessings like th listen public service is is not for the faint public service is is not for the faint public service is is not for the faint of heart these days like of heart these days like of heart these days like it's brutal out there because we it's brutal out there because we it's brutal out there because we politicize everything instead of politicize everything instead of politicize everything instead of theologizing everything and so Lord theologizing everything and so Lord theologizing everything and so Lord raise up Esther's and Daniels and raise up Esther's and Daniels and raise up Esther's and Daniels and Deborah's and nehemiah's people that Deborah's and nehemiah's people that Deborah's and nehemiah's people that have the courage to become public have the courage to become public have the courage to become public servants and um yeah there's no denying

servants and um yeah there's no denying servants and um yeah there's no denying that yeah there's corruption there's you that yeah there's corruption there's you that yeah there's corruption there's you know um uh power corrupts absolute power know um uh power corrupts absolute power know um uh power corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutely you know there corrupts absolutely you know there corrupts absolutely you know there there's some of that but uh we feel there's some of that but uh we feel there's some of that but uh we feel called to serve that public sphere and called to serve that public sphere and called to serve that public sphere and uh I'll also say this God's no respector uh I'll also say this God's no respector uh I'll also say this God's no respector of person so when we turn Ebenezer's of person so when we turn Ebenezer's of person so when we turn Ebenezer's into the living room for our friends into the living room for our friends into the living room for our friends experiencing homelessness um we find experiencing homelessness um we find experiencing homelessness um we find equal Joy they it's a Theology of equal Joy they it's a Theology of equal Joy they it's a Theology of dignity the image of God and Me greets dignity the image of God and Me greets dignity the image of God and Me greets the image of God and you so God it it's the image of God and you so God it it's the image of God and you so God it it's it's a the ground is level at the foot it's a the ground is level at the foot it's a the ground is level at the foot of the cross is where I'm going with of the cross is where I'm going with of the cross is where I'm going with that carry and so part of what our that carry and so part of what our that carry and so part of what our mindset is um is that yeah there is a mindset is um is that yeah there is a mindset is um is that yeah there is a hill higher than capital Hill it's a hill higher than capital Hill it's a hill higher than capital Hill it's a Hill Called Calvary uh there's a house Hill Called Calvary uh there's a house Hill Called Calvary uh there's a house that's more important than the White that's more important than the White that's more important than the White House I think it's the house of prayer House I think it's the house of prayer House I think it's the house of prayer and uh and I I think there's a a court and uh and I I think there's a a court and uh and I I think there's a a court that's even more uh important than the that's even more uh important than the that's even more uh important than the Supreme Court and I think it's the inner Supreme Court and I think it's the inner Supreme Court and I think it's the inner Court uh that we have access to through Court uh that we have access to through Court uh that we have access to through what Christ accomplished on the cross so what Christ accomplished on the cross so what Christ accomplished on the cross so we're going to try to stand in the Gap we're going to try to stand in the Gap we're going to try to stand in the Gap as peacemakers Grace givers truth as peacemakers Grace givers truth as peacemakers Grace givers truth tellers tone Setters and uh we've been tellers tone Setters and uh we've been tellers tone Setters and uh we've been through uh lots of administrations through uh lots of administrations through uh lots of administrations administrations come and go the kingdom administrations come and go the kingdom administrations come and go the kingdom is forever and uh that that's going to is forever and uh that that's going to is forever and uh that that's going to keep us centered we're going to keep on keep us centered we're going to keep on keep us centered we're going to keep on keeping on and uh we know the lane that keeping on and uh we know the lane that keeping on and uh we know the lane that God has called us to run God has called us to run God has called us to run in so uh we touched on this a little bit in so uh we touched on this a little bit in so uh we touched on this a little bit but you continue to write it's amazing I but you continue to write it's amazing I but you continue to write it's amazing I remember a few books ago you're like I remember a few books ago you're like I remember a few books ago you're like I think this might be my last one it took

think this might be my last one it took think this might be my last one it took a lot out of you but you're going and a lot out of you but you're going and a lot out of you but you're going and going and going and going uh so I'm going and going and going uh so I'm going and going and going uh so I'm going to be very excited for gradually going to be very excited for gradually going to be very excited for gradually and then suddenly um but you've also got and then suddenly um but you've also got and then suddenly um but you've also got your latest book uh which I had the your latest book uh which I had the your latest book uh which I had the privilege of endorsing is on the subject privilege of endorsing is on the subject privilege of endorsing is on the subject of everyday Miracles right A Million of everyday Miracles right A Million of everyday Miracles right A Million Little Miracles so tell us a little bit Little Miracles so tell us a little bit Little Miracles so tell us a little bit about what's inside and why you wrote it about what's inside and why you wrote it about what's inside and why you wrote it yeah Le let's just have a little bit of yeah Le let's just have a little bit of yeah Le let's just have a little bit of fun we're on a planet that's spinning it fun we're on a planet that's spinning it fun we're on a planet that's spinning it 1,000 miles an hour and speeding through 1,000 miles an hour and speeding through 1,000 miles an hour and speeding through space at 67,000 miles per hour so even space at 67,000 miles per hour so even space at 67,000 miles per hour so even on a day we didn't get much done Carrie on a day we didn't get much done Carrie on a day we didn't get much done Carrie we did travel 1.6 million miles through we did travel 1.6 million miles through we did travel 1.6 million miles through space and uh you know I'm just having space and uh you know I'm just having space and uh you know I'm just having fun with it but there are people say fun with it but there are people say fun with it but there are people say I've never experienced a miracle with I've never experienced a miracle with I've never experienced a miracle with all due respect you have never not in all due respect you have never not in all due respect you have never not in fact you are one I mean come on 37 fact you are one I mean come on 37 fact you are one I mean come on 37 sextilion biochemical reactions sextilion biochemical reactions sextilion biochemical reactions happening in the human body at any given happening in the human body at any given happening in the human body at any given moment I didn't flip a switch this moment I didn't flip a switch this moment I didn't flip a switch this morning six quarts of blood you know morning six quarts of blood you know morning six quarts of blood you know flowing through 60,000 miles of veins flowing through 60,000 miles of veins flowing through 60,000 miles of veins arteries and capillaries um DNA enough arteries and capillaries um DNA enough arteries and capillaries um DNA enough of it to stretch to the moon and back of it to stretch to the moon and back of it to stretch to the moon and back 150,000 times so Carrie here's where I 150,000 times so Carrie here's where I 150,000 times so Carrie here's where I would go with it um I'm a little tired would go with it um I'm a little tired would go with it um I'm a little tired of being made to feel foolish for of being made to feel foolish for of being made to feel foolish for believing in intelligent design when believing in intelligent design when believing in intelligent design when anything less violates common sense and anything less violates common sense and anything less violates common sense and common science uh we we we are fearfully common science uh we we we are fearfully common science uh we we we are fearfully and wonderfully made made a little lower and wonderfully made made a little lower and wonderfully made made a little lower than the angels and crowned with glory than the angels and crowned with glory than the angels and crowned with glory and you know the book is in part um an

and you know the book is in part um an and you know the book is in part um an apologetic but I think it's also about apologetic but I think it's also about apologetic but I think it's also about recapturing uh either you're going to recapturing uh either you're going to recapturing uh either you're going to take things for granted or take them uh take things for granted or take them uh take things for granted or take them uh for gratitude and it's kind of for gratitude and it's kind of for gratitude and it's kind of recapturing grat attitude for the the recapturing grat attitude for the the recapturing grat attitude for the the everyday Miracles that are all around us everyday Miracles that are all around us everyday Miracles that are all around us all the time well and you know that's all the time well and you know that's all the time well and you know that's what I love if you've enjoyed the tone what I love if you've enjoyed the tone what I love if you've enjoyed the tone and the tenor and the optimism and the and the tenor and the optimism and the and the tenor and the optimism and the faith that's so evident in an hour and a faith that's so evident in an hour and a faith that's so evident in an hour and a bit with Mark Batterson you're going to bit with Mark Batterson you're going to bit with Mark Batterson you're going to love his book and in a very cynical age love his book and in a very cynical age love his book and in a very cynical age uh you continue to bring hope Wonder uh you continue to bring hope Wonder uh you continue to bring hope Wonder curiosity awe and it's such a gift Mark curiosity awe and it's such a gift Mark curiosity awe and it's such a gift Mark so thank you the latest book is called a so thank you the latest book is called a so thank you the latest book is called a million little miror million little miror million little miror it's available everywhere Market people it's available everywhere Market people it's available everywhere Market people want to find you online uh where are you want to find you online uh where are you want to find you online uh where are you active these days yeah uh Instagram and active these days yeah uh Instagram and active these days yeah uh Instagram and X at Mark Batterson uh Mark bon.com if X at Mark Batterson uh Mark bon.com if X at Mark Batterson uh Mark bon.com if if people want to maybe sample uh couple if people want to maybe sample uh couple if people want to maybe sample uh couple of those books they're free to do that of those books they're free to do that of those books they're free to do that and uh Carrie it's always such a joy and uh Carrie it's always such a joy and uh Carrie it's always such a joy it's easy having a conversation with a it's easy having a conversation with a it's easy having a conversation with a friend oh it's easy friend oh it's easy friend oh it's easy uh well and thanks thanks for going uh well and thanks thanks for going uh well and thanks thanks for going there I always you know we've had so there I always you know we've had so there I always you know we've had so many conversation online and offline and many conversation online and offline and many conversation online and offline and I've always wondered about this and I I've always wondered about this and I I've always wondered about this and I think you helped a lot of church leaders think you helped a lot of church leaders think you helped a lot of church leaders and I think it's a different model for and I think it's a different model for and I think it's a different model for things and I love the framing of it too things and I love the framing of it too things and I love the framing of it too right gradually then suddenly and again right gradually then suddenly and again right gradually then suddenly and again this is three decades in uh an hour and this is three decades in uh an hour and this is three decades in uh an hour and 11 minutes so uh just understand if it's

11 minutes so uh just understand if it's 11 minutes so uh just understand if it's not happening by Christmas for you hang not happening by Christmas for you hang not happening by Christmas for you hang in there in there in there right absolutely and not just hang in right absolutely and not just hang in right absolutely and not just hang in there may maybe the last word is enjoy there may maybe the last word is enjoy there may maybe the last word is enjoy the journey like you know as a as a the journey like you know as a as a the journey like you know as a as a parent you gotta you gotta enjoy every parent you gotta you gotta enjoy every parent you gotta you gotta enjoy every age and stage and I think that's true of age and stage and I think that's true of age and stage and I think that's true of leadership um I think you have to en leadership um I think you have to en leadership um I think you have to en enjoy the journey and uh play the long enjoy the journey and uh play the long enjoy the journey and uh play the long game some good things are going to game some good things are going to game some good things are going to happen Mark thanks for a very different happen Mark thanks for a very different happen Mark thanks for a very different take on the story of NCC and your story take on the story of NCC and your story take on the story of NCC and your story so far so appreciate you friend thank so far so appreciate you friend thank so far so appreciate you friend thank you thanks Carrie