How to Use Gen Z's Gifts and Bold Faith at Your Church

Which I would go the way you kill that Which I would go the way you kill that is to go we have to bring this inside is to go we have to bring this inside is to go we have to bring this inside the local church though of go of like I the local church though of go of like I the local church though of go of like I think I think one way you could kill the think I think one way you could kill the think I think one way you could kill the organic nature of that is and his his organic nature of that is and his his organic nature of that is and his his local church pastor in Columbus is super local church pastor in Columbus is super local church pastor in Columbus is super empowering. Would be to go we want to empowering. Would be to go we want to empowering. Would be to go we want to make this a ministry of our church. make this a ministry of our church. make this a ministry of our church. Welcome to the Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Welcome to the Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Welcome to the Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Podcast. It's Carey here and we're Podcast. It's Carey here and we're Podcast. It's Carey here and we're continuing our church trend series. This continuing our church trend series. This continuing our church trend series. This is part three. [music] It's all about is part three. [music] It's all about is part three. [music] It's all about Gen Z. Why is their faith so bold? How Gen Z. Why is their faith so bold? How Gen Z. Why is their faith so bold? How do you use their gifting at your church? do you use their gifting at your church? do you use their gifting at your church? You know, you probably even if you're a You know, you probably even if you're a You know, you probably even if you're a small church, you probably have Gen Z at small church, you probably have Gen Z at small church, you probably have Gen Z at your church. How do you utilize their your church. How do you utilize their your church. How do you utilize their gifting? They're an incredibly gifted gifting? They're an incredibly gifted gifting? They're an incredibly gifted generation. So I sit down to talk about generation. So I sit down to talk about generation. So I sit down to talk about that with Luke LeFevre and Daniel that with Luke LeFevre and Daniel that with Luke LeFevre and Daniel McCloud and [music] we shot this McCloud and [music] we shot this McCloud and [music] we shot this in person in Nashville actually in person in Nashville actually in person in Nashville actually Franklin, Tennessee where I spent a Franklin, Tennessee where I spent a Franklin, Tennessee where I spent a month [music] while we were filming the month [music] while we were filming the month [music] while we were filming the series. We had a lot of fun together. series. We had a lot of fun together. series. We had a lot of fun together. And you know what's really cool for And you know what's really cool for And you know what's really cool for those of you who might be Gen Z Gen Z those of you who might be Gen Z Gen Z those of you who might be Gen Z Gen Z all the stuff about [music] Gen Z. Okay. all the stuff about [music] Gen Z. Okay. all the stuff about [music] Gen Z. Okay. I ran into Luke at a mall the the I ran into Luke at a mall the the I ran into Luke at a mall the the factory [music] in Franklin a couple factory [music] in Franklin a couple factory [music] in Franklin a couple days after we shot this and you know who days after we shot this and you know who days after we shot this and you know who he was meeting with? His pastor. His he was meeting with? His pastor. His he was meeting with? His pastor. His pastor that probably is my age and stage pastor that probably is my age and stage pastor that probably is my age and stage in life and that's the thing about Gen Z in life and that's the thing about Gen Z in life and that's the thing about Gen Z that a lot of people don't realize they that a lot of people don't realize they that a lot of people don't realize they actually really love spending time with actually really love spending time with actually really love spending time with older generations. So if you're Gen X or older generations. So if you're Gen X or older generations. So if you're Gen X or you're boomer or even an older you're boomer or even an older you're boomer or even an older millennial Gen Z really want your millennial Gen Z really want your millennial Gen Z really want your wisdom. So before we dive into the wisdom. So before we dive into the wisdom. So before we dive into the interview a little bit about Luke over interview a little bit about Luke over interview a little bit about Luke over the past decade Luke LeFevre has spoken the past decade Luke LeFevre has spoken the past decade Luke LeFevre has spoken to millions of people around the world to millions of people around the world to millions of people around the world led thousands to faith in Christ. He is led thousands to faith in Christ. He is led thousands to faith in Christ. He is the author of the book Holy unto the the author of the book Holy unto the the author of the book Holy unto the Lord rediscovering the joy of holiness.

Lord rediscovering the joy of holiness. Lord rediscovering the joy of holiness. Uh he lives with a desire to see revival Uh he lives with a desire to see revival Uh he lives with a desire to see revival in the church and the gospel reach the in the church and the gospel reach the in the church and the gospel reach the ends of the earth. We're going to talk ends of the earth. We're going to talk ends of the earth. We're going to talk about preaching at a rave too which is a about preaching at a rave too which is a about preaching at a rave too which is a lot of fun. And I've also got Daniel lot of fun. And I've also got Daniel lot of fun. And I've also got Daniel McCloud. He is the founder and president McCloud. He is the founder and president McCloud. He is the founder and president of Jesus mission that exists to awaken of Jesus mission that exists to awaken of Jesus mission that exists to awaken the next generation to the supernatural the next generation to the supernatural the next generation to the supernatural power and love of God. Since 2016 he's power and love of God. Since 2016 he's power and love of God. Since 2016 he's become a trusted voice to the church become a trusted voice to the church become a trusted voice to the church inspiring believers to find creative inspiring believers to find creative inspiring believers to find creative ways to evangelize, mobilize and ways to evangelize, mobilize and ways to evangelize, mobilize and disciple. And you'll be amazed like disciple. And you'll be amazed like disciple. And you'll be amazed like their ministry goes back to high school their ministry goes back to high school their ministry goes back to high school and I get into that and figure out what and I get into that and figure out what and I get into that and figure out what you can do to tap into the power of what you can do to tap into the power of what you can do to tap into the power of what Gen Z is bringing to church leadership Gen Z is bringing to church leadership Gen Z is bringing to church leadership these days. So now my conversation with these days. So now my conversation with these days. So now my conversation with Luke LeFevre and Daniel McCloud. Uh Luke Luke LeFevre and Daniel McCloud. Uh Luke Luke LeFevre and Daniel McCloud. Uh Luke and Daniel it's so good to have you here and Daniel it's so good to have you here and Daniel it's so good to have you here today. Welcome. today. Welcome. today. Welcome. Great to be here. Thanks so much for Great to be here. Thanks so much for Great to be here. Thanks so much for having us. We are talking church trends having us. We are talking church trends having us. We are talking church trends today. Uh both of you technically are today. Uh both of you technically are today. Uh both of you technically are Gen Z. Gen Z. Gen Z. Right? Right? Right? >> Barely made it. Barely made it. I barely >> Barely made it. Barely made it. I barely >> Barely made it. Barely made it. I barely made Gen X. So we're going to be Do made Gen X. So we're going to be Do made Gen X. So we're going to be Do people try to make you millennials? It's people try to make you millennials? It's people try to make you millennials? It's like uh you're really a millennial.

like uh you're really a millennial. like uh you're really a millennial. Yeah, you're too old. Yeah, you're too old. Yeah, you're too old. >> Yeah, they try to push us one way or the >> Yeah, they try to push us one way or the >> Yeah, they try to push us one way or the other. Try to push you one way or the other. Try to push you one way or the other. Try to push you one way or the other. But you're you're Gen Z and other. But you're you're Gen Z and other. But you're you're Gen Z and you're so you're 28 you're 26. Right. you're so you're 28 you're 26. Right. you're so you're 28 you're 26. Right. Right Daniel? Right Daniel? Right Daniel? Um Um Um how did you guys get so passionate cuz how did you guys get so passionate cuz how did you guys get so passionate cuz you've known each other a long time? How you've known each other a long time? How you've known each other a long time? How do you get so passionate about the do you get so passionate about the do you get so passionate about the gospel gospel gospel so young? Cuz usually people like drift so young? Cuz usually people like drift so young? Cuz usually people like drift away and then they come back and then away and then they come back and then away and then they come back and then it's like okay I'm going to settle down it's like okay I'm going to settle down it's like okay I'm going to settle down get serious about my faith. get serious about my faith. get serious about my faith. I'll start. But um I'll start. But um I'll start. But um for me it was really when I went all in for me it was really when I went all in for me it was really when I went all in for Jesus in high school for Jesus in high school for Jesus in high school and [snorts] and [snorts] and [snorts] my parents were always pushing us to my parents were always pushing us to my parents were always pushing us to share our faith and there was a time share our faith and there was a time share our faith and there was a time where I where I where I gave my life to Jesus like fully gave my life to Jesus like fully gave my life to Jesus like fully rededicated my life 16 years old. I was rededicated my life 16 years old. I was rededicated my life 16 years old. I was trying to share about Jesus in my school trying to share about Jesus in my school trying to share about Jesus in my school but I just didn't really know how or but I just didn't really know how or but I just didn't really know how or where to start and I was where to start and I was where to start and I was uh overcome by fear uh overcome by fear uh overcome by fear and my dad said to me Daniel you need to and my dad said to me Daniel you need to and my dad said to me Daniel you need to stop falling into peer pressure and stop falling into peer pressure and stop falling into peer pressure and become the peer pressure. become the peer pressure. become the peer pressure. And that actually really shifted And that actually really shifted And that actually really shifted everything for me. I began to have a everything for me. I began to have a everything for me. I began to have a paradigm shift that paradigm shift that paradigm shift that when I speak the Holy Spirit speaks and when I speak the Holy Spirit speaks and when I speak the Holy Spirit speaks and that when I walk into the to the school that when I walk into the to the school that when I walk into the to the school the love that they're looking for the love that they're looking for the love that they're looking for actually lives inside of us.

actually lives inside of us. actually lives inside of us. And so I just began to share And then And so I just began to share And then And so I just began to share And then you're how old at this point? 16 at the you're how old at this point? 16 at the you're how old at this point? 16 at the end of 16 years old. end of 16 years old. end of 16 years old. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. And then And then And then um just began to actually see people um just began to actually see people um just began to actually see people were drawn to Jesus. So that's really were drawn to Jesus. So that's really were drawn to Jesus. So that's really when it began for me. I wouldn't say I when it began for me. I wouldn't say I when it began for me. I wouldn't say I got I was perfected in any way on got I was perfected in any way on got I was perfected in any way on sharing the gospel. I was just doing my sharing the gospel. I was just doing my sharing the gospel. I was just doing my best but that's where it started was best but that's where it started was best but that's where it started was honestly just my dad speaking into me honestly just my dad speaking into me honestly just my dad speaking into me and saying basically need to crush fear and saying basically need to crush fear and saying basically need to crush fear in your life. in your life. in your life. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. How about for you Luke? How about for you Luke? How about for you Luke? You know, it's interesting. I would say You know, it's interesting. I would say You know, it's interesting. I would say my parents were a huge part of that in my parents were a huge part of that in my parents were a huge part of that in my own life as well. Um you know, my my own life as well. Um you know, my my own life as well. Um you know, my grandfather was a pastor for a portion grandfather was a pastor for a portion grandfather was a pastor for a portion of his life and my grandparents then my of his life and my grandparents then my of his life and my grandparents then my parents parents parents um watching them live out um their faith um watching them live out um their faith um watching them live out um their faith in a way that was compelling and in a way that was compelling and in a way that was compelling and sacrificing their life for the church. sacrificing their life for the church. sacrificing their life for the church. And my parents have basically been like And my parents have basically been like And my parents have basically been like non on staff on staff at the church that non on staff on staff at the church that non on staff on staff at the church that we've been at we've been at we've been at as as long as I can remember of how much as as long as I can remember of how much as as long as I can remember of how much they would serve and they would serve and they would serve and and things like that and then I think it and things like that and then I think it and things like that and then I think it another big contributor for me was another big contributor for me was another big contributor for me was you know, we actually I I ran into you you know, we actually I I ran into you you know, we actually I I ran into you earlier today for those listening to the earlier today for those listening to the earlier today for those listening to the podcast and I was with uh the factory.

podcast and I was with uh the factory. podcast and I was with uh the factory. Yeah, I was meeting with the senior Yeah, I was meeting with the senior Yeah, I was meeting with the senior pastor of the church that I've gone to pastor of the church that I've gone to pastor of the church that I've gone to since I was born since I was born since I was born and him and his son primarily discipled and him and his son primarily discipled and him and his son primarily discipled me and I I think about when I was in me and I I think about when I was in me and I I think about when I was in youth group and his son his name is Joel youth group and his son his name is Joel youth group and his son his name is Joel Everest Everest Everest would he was he was would he was he was would he was he was he would just cast this vision of he would just cast this vision of he would just cast this vision of following Jesus that was a a vision of following Jesus that was a a vision of following Jesus that was a a vision of of a compelling of a compelling of a compelling thing worth giving your life for. thing worth giving your life for. thing worth giving your life for. And it was just like I was I was looking And it was just like I was I was looking And it was just like I was I was looking for that. I'm like I I want something to for that. I'm like I I want something to for that. I'm like I I want something to give my life for. Like I'm not trying to give my life for. Like I'm not trying to give my life for. Like I'm not trying to just you know, find a just you know, find a just you know, find a uh a thing to do with my time or like uh a thing to do with my time or like uh a thing to do with my time or like even just like a friend group. Like I even just like a friend group. Like I even just like a friend group. Like I want something worth dying for something want something worth dying for something want something worth dying for something worth giving my life for and just from worth giving my life for and just from worth giving my life for and just from an early age um an early age um an early age um uh being captured by that of oh Jesus is uh being captured by that of oh Jesus is uh being captured by that of oh Jesus is somebody worth living and dying for. And somebody worth living and dying for. And somebody worth living and dying for. And so I think from an early age there you so I think from an early age there you so I think from an early age there you know know know 12 13 14 15 and then getting into 12 13 14 15 and then getting into 12 13 14 15 and then getting into college and things like that and but it college and things like that and but it college and things like that and but it really started in that I'd say probably really started in that I'd say probably really started in that I'd say probably similar age range as Daniel but um from similar age range as Daniel but um from similar age range as Daniel but um from my parents my grandparents my parents my grandparents my parents my grandparents um and then really our our local church.

um and then really our our local church. um and then really our our local church. Yeah, that's what amazes me. I mean I Yeah, that's what amazes me. I mean I Yeah, that's what amazes me. I mean I look back on being a teenager look back on being a teenager look back on being a teenager and I can say with certainty there were and I can say with certainty there were and I can say with certainty there were people who were saying the same thing to people who were saying the same thing to people who were saying the same thing to me me me but it wasn't resonating. You know what but it wasn't resonating. You know what but it wasn't resonating. You know what I mean? Like I kind of did the drift I mean? Like I kind of did the drift I mean? Like I kind of did the drift away at 18 19 came back at 21 but even away at 18 19 came back at 21 but even away at 18 19 came back at 21 but even then it took a while then it took a while then it took a while to get connected and it's certainly not to get connected and it's certainly not to get connected and it's certainly not true of everybody who's Gen Z but true of everybody who's Gen Z but true of everybody who's Gen Z but there's something about the moment in there's something about the moment in there's something about the moment in time time time that we'll probably understand in that we'll probably understand in that we'll probably understand in heaven. I'm not sure we're going to heaven. I'm not sure we're going to heaven. I'm not sure we're going to figure that out on earth why that is met figure that out on earth why that is met figure that out on earth why that is met cuz every parent listening to this is cuz every parent listening to this is cuz every parent listening to this is like well I wanted that for my kids and like well I wanted that for my kids and like well I wanted that for my kids and it didn't work out but it but it really it didn't work out but it but it really it didn't work out but it but it really took with you guys. You're doing Tell me took with you guys. You're doing Tell me took with you guys. You're doing Tell me you told me the story at breakfast uh a you told me the story at breakfast uh a you told me the story at breakfast uh a couple months ago. couple months ago. couple months ago. You told me about doing raves for Jesus. You told me about doing raves for Jesus. You told me about doing raves for Jesus. Like what? Like what? Like what? >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> What Can you give us Can you give us the >> What Can you give us Can you give us the >> What Can you give us Can you give us the TLDR on that one? Oh man. What You want TLDR on that one? Oh man. What You want TLDR on that one? Oh man. What You want to kick that kick that off yeah. to kick that kick that off yeah. to kick that kick that off yeah. >> I'll start. So basically I'll give you >> I'll start. So basically I'll give you >> I'll start. So basically I'll give you back story. Told you about high school back story. Told you about high school back story. Told you about high school is when I went all in for Jesus. Um is when I went all in for Jesus. Um is when I went all in for Jesus. Um started this ministry called Wilco started this ministry called Wilco started this ministry called Wilco United when I was United when I was United when I was uh 17 17 years old.

uh 17 17 years old. uh 17 17 years old. But not not connected to the band. But not not connected to the band. But not not connected to the band. >> No, not connected to the band. Okay. >> No, not connected to the band. Okay. >> No, not connected to the band. Okay. When I was 17 years old that had started When I was 17 years old that had started When I was 17 years old that had started with some friends and basically it was with some friends and basically it was with some friends and basically it was like mass like mass like mass unity high school gatherings all the unity high school gatherings all the unity high school gatherings all the schools in the county in Williamson schools in the county in Williamson schools in the county in Williamson County. That's why I called Wilco County. That's why I called Wilco County. That's why I called Wilco United. Williamson County being south of United. Williamson County being south of United. Williamson County being south of Nashville. Yeah. Williamson County Nashville. Yeah. Williamson County Nashville. Yeah. Williamson County United. Like over 1600 students would United. Like over 1600 students would United. Like over 1600 students would gather for worship prayer um student led gather for worship prayer um student led gather for worship prayer um student led student led Yeah. Went on for two every student led Yeah. Went on for two every student led Yeah. Went on for two every month they would gather. Went on for two month they would gather. Went on for two month they would gather. Went on for two years. Um a third year I went off to a years. Um a third year I went off to a years. Um a third year I went off to a mission school. mission school. mission school. That ministry had just died off. That ministry had just died off. That ministry had just died off. And so come back And so come back And so come back Luke and I are doing ministry together Luke and I are doing ministry together Luke and I are doing ministry together and um Luke find I was like wondering and um Luke find I was like wondering and um Luke find I was like wondering what was going on in the high schools what was going on in the high schools what was going on in the high schools just trying to see what the spiritual just trying to see what the spiritual just trying to see what the spiritual temperature was and it turned out these temperature was and it turned out these temperature was and it turned out these guys were throwing raves and Luke had guys were throwing raves and Luke had guys were throwing raves and Luke had told me they were throwing raves. Right. told me they were throwing raves. Right. told me they were throwing raves. Right. >> And then Luke goes we should pray that >> And then Luke goes we should pray that >> And then Luke goes we should pray that God God God >> So for the uninitiated what goes on at a >> So for the uninitiated what goes on at a >> So for the uninitiated what goes on at a rave? rave? rave? Rave is electronic dance music Rave is electronic dance music Rave is electronic dance music drugs, sex, all the things. You name it.

drugs, sex, all the things. You name it. drugs, sex, all the things. You name it. Just a big party. Mhm. Like a big frat Just a big party. Mhm. Like a big frat Just a big party. Mhm. Like a big frat party Yeah. in a empty venue with party Yeah. in a empty venue with party Yeah. in a empty venue with electronic dance music. 100%. So we come electronic dance music. 100%. So we come electronic dance music. 100%. So we come back and um back and um back and um it's like the scripture talks about it's like the scripture talks about it's like the scripture talks about clean house but then the spirit comes in clean house but then the spirit comes in clean house but then the spirit comes in seven times as strong. That's what it seven times as strong. That's what it seven times as strong. That's what it felt like hearing about all these raves felt like hearing about all these raves felt like hearing about all these raves all the students are going to these all the students are going to these all the students are going to these raves and these two guys were throwing raves and these two guys were throwing raves and these two guys were throwing these raves and these raves and these raves and Luke was like Luke was like Luke was like we should pray that we could share the we should pray that we could share the we should pray that we could share the gospel at these raves. gospel at these raves. gospel at these raves. Yeah, I mean it would take the whole Yeah, I mean it would take the whole Yeah, I mean it would take the whole podcast to tell the story so podcast to tell the story so podcast to tell the story so Basically we should pray that we should Basically we should pray that we should Basically we should pray that we should go into one of the most pagan places and go into one of the most pagan places and go into one of the most pagan places and preach the gospel. preach the gospel. preach the gospel. Well, it was it felt it was a very Well, it was it felt it was a very Well, it was it felt it was a very divine like it felt like it was a Holy divine like it felt like it was a Holy divine like it felt like it was a Holy Spirit prompted thing. Cuz then people Spirit prompted thing. Cuz then people Spirit prompted thing. Cuz then people were like were like were like they would hear this story they start they would hear this story they start they would hear this story they start trying to like copy it and I was like trying to like copy it and I was like trying to like copy it and I was like listen this was something that I felt listen this was something that I felt listen this was something that I felt like the Lord spoke to us said to do. like the Lord spoke to us said to do. like the Lord spoke to us said to do. But anyway, we end up finding the guys But anyway, we end up finding the guys But anyway, we end up finding the guys through pre miraculous set of through pre miraculous set of through pre miraculous set of circumstances. circumstances. circumstances. Um Um Um get in touch with them. We're like super get in touch with them. We're like super get in touch with them. We're like super nervous shaking you know, so we're so nervous shaking you know, so we're so nervous shaking you know, so we're so nervous. Share the vision of like and we nervous. Share the vision of like and we nervous. Share the vision of like and we had this you know had this you know had this you know innocent as as does shrewd shrewd as innocent as as does shrewd shrewd as innocent as as does shrewd shrewd as serpents type of strategy where like hey serpents type of strategy where like hey serpents type of strategy where like hey we'll bring 50 of our friends to pay we'll bring 50 of our friends to pay we'll bring 50 of our friends to pay tickets to your rave cuz they were tickets to your rave cuz they were tickets to your rave cuz they were charging 20 bucks at the door.

charging 20 bucks at the door. charging 20 bucks at the door. And we'll give and you know, a long And we'll give and you know, a long And we'll give and you know, a long series of events but like we had a series of events but like we had a series of events but like we had a friend who who friend who who friend who who leads a ministry downtown that has one leads a ministry downtown that has one leads a ministry downtown that has one of the coolest music venues in of the coolest music venues in of the coolest music venues in Nashville. It's like $15,000 a day to Nashville. It's like $15,000 a day to Nashville. It's like $15,000 a day to rent and we got him to agree to let us rent and we got him to agree to let us rent and we got him to agree to let us have the venue as a bargaining piece for have the venue as a bargaining piece for have the venue as a bargaining piece for the boys. the boys. the boys. And we said hey like And we said hey like And we said hey like um we'll bring our friends um we'll bring our friends um we'll bring our friends so it's extra ticket sales for you. so it's extra ticket sales for you. so it's extra ticket sales for you. We'll give you the coolest venue in We'll give you the coolest venue in We'll give you the coolest venue in Nashville um for free but under a couple Nashville um for free but under a couple Nashville um for free but under a couple conditions. You've got to let us uh take conditions. You've got to let us uh take conditions. You've got to let us uh take the last 30 minutes of your rave to tell the last 30 minutes of your rave to tell the last 30 minutes of your rave to tell about how Jesus has changed our lives about how Jesus has changed our lives about how Jesus has changed our lives and you got to put all the money we're and you got to put all the money we're and you got to put all the money we're going to spend on a venue and pump it going to spend on a venue and pump it going to spend on a venue and pump it into advertising and get as many kids into advertising and get as many kids into advertising and get as many kids there as possible. And so we get to the there as possible. And so we get to the there as possible. And so we get to the night of and like a thousand kids show night of and like a thousand kids show night of and like a thousand kids show up at the door. Um, and up at the door. Um, and up at the door. Um, and yeah, it was was unreal. But I mean, yeah, it was was unreal. But I mean, yeah, it was was unreal. But I mean, again, it would take so long to tell the again, it would take so long to tell the again, it would take so long to tell the story. story. story. >> Well, a thousand Well, important part, a >> Well, a thousand Well, important part, a >> Well, a thousand Well, important part, a thousand thousand thousand come, and then about 450 give their life come, and then about 450 give their life come, and then about 450 give their life to Jesus that night. to Jesus that night. to Jesus that night. >> Yeah. So we can we can we can do a >> Yeah. So we can we can we can do a >> Yeah. So we can we can we can do a little deeper on that cuz it's such an little deeper on that cuz it's such an little deeper on that cuz it's such an extraordinary story. extraordinary story. extraordinary story. You were telling me the long version at You were telling me the long version at You were telling me the long version at breakfast.

breakfast. breakfast. >> Yeah. And it's just so powerful. What >> Yeah. And it's just so powerful. What >> Yeah. And it's just so powerful. What How did you convince the cool venue How did you convince the cool venue How did you convince the cool venue owner to give you a $15,000 comp? owner to give you a $15,000 comp? owner to give you a $15,000 comp? Well, so he's a believer. Yeah, he loves Well, so he's a believer. Yeah, he loves Well, so he's a believer. Yeah, he loves Jesus. Um, he's a believer, and so the Jesus. Um, he's a believer, and so the Jesus. Um, he's a believer, and so the the the the So the guy that owned like the It's So the guy that owned like the It's So the guy that owned like the It's actually a ministry that owns the venue. actually a ministry that owns the venue. actually a ministry that owns the venue. Oh, cool. Oh, cool. Oh, cool. >> So like churches will >> So like churches will >> So like churches will >> Michael W. Smith's. Yeah, Michael W. >> Michael W. Smith's. Yeah, Michael W. >> Michael W. Smith's. Yeah, Michael W. Smith started it. Smith started it. Smith started it. >> you go. Yeah. Yeah, very famous for his >> you go. Yeah. Yeah, very famous for his >> you go. Yeah. Yeah, very famous for his raves. Yes, he is. Yeah. raves. Yes, he is. Yeah. raves. Yes, he is. Yeah. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Michael W. Smith doesn't do the weekend. >> Michael W. Smith doesn't do the weekend. >> Michael W. Smith doesn't do the weekend. Do not clip this and use it against Do not clip this and use it against Do not clip this and use it against Michael W. Smith. Michael W. Smith. Michael W. Smith. Yeah. And the CEO is one of my best Yeah. And the CEO is one of my best Yeah. And the CEO is one of my best friends' dads. Oh, there you go. So he friends' dads. Oh, there you go. So he friends' dads. Oh, there you go. So he had a he had a a Christian and an had a he had a a Christian and an had a he had a a Christian and an inside. inside. inside. >> some inside, yeah. >> some inside, yeah. >> some inside, yeah. >> All right. And you told him this is a >> All right. And you told him this is a >> All right. And you told him this is a mission. Yes. mission. Yes. mission. Yes. How did you share the gospel in the last How did you share the gospel in the last How did you share the gospel in the last 30 minutes? What did you say? What did 30 minutes? What did you say? What did 30 minutes? What did you say? What did you do? you do? you do? Okay. I mean, I was terrified. I mean, I Okay. I mean, I was terrified. I mean, I Okay. I mean, I was terrified. I mean, I don't know if anybody listening has ever don't know if anybody listening has ever don't know if anybody listening has ever preached at a rave before. I had not. preached at a rave before. I had not. preached at a rave before. I had not. >> No. You know. No. So I remember this is >> No. You know. No. So I remember this is >> No. You know. No. So I remember this is probably three nights before. I I'm in probably three nights before. I I'm in probably three nights before. I I'm in my room and I'm praying and I'm like, my room and I'm praying and I'm like, my room and I'm praying and I'm like, "God, I'm terrified. I'm I'm so scared."

"God, I'm terrified. I'm I'm so scared." "God, I'm terrified. I'm I'm so scared." And cuz I said I I just kept thinking in And cuz I said I I just kept thinking in And cuz I said I I just kept thinking in my mind, I'm like, "I'm going to get my mind, I'm like, "I'm going to get my mind, I'm like, "I'm going to get cussed off the stage. That's what's cussed off the stage. That's what's cussed off the stage. That's what's going to happen. I'm going to get up. going to happen. I'm going to get up. going to happen. I'm going to get up. I'm going to start trying to talk, and I'm going to start trying to talk, and I'm going to start trying to talk, and and I'm going to get cussed out." So and I'm going to get cussed out." So and I'm going to get cussed out." So wasn't like the the advertising wasn't wasn't like the the advertising wasn't wasn't like the the advertising wasn't free rave and or $20 rave and a sermon. free rave and or $20 rave and a sermon. free rave and or $20 rave and a sermon. >> No. >> No. >> No. >> It was just nobody knew this was coming. >> It was just nobody knew this was coming. >> It was just nobody knew this was coming. >> We basically just did the end so the >> We basically just did the end so the >> We basically just did the end so the alcohol and the drugs had enough time to alcohol and the drugs had enough time to alcohol and the drugs had enough time to wear off so that they could hear us, you wear off so that they could hear us, you wear off so that they could hear us, you know? So we're like, know? So we're like, know? So we're like, "Let's just do the end here." Yeah. And "Let's just do the end here." Yeah. And "Let's just do the end here." Yeah. And um so we get up So I'm in my room um so we get up So I'm in my room um so we get up So I'm in my room praying and I'm like, "I'm terrified. praying and I'm like, "I'm terrified. praying and I'm like, "I'm terrified. I'm going to I'm going to get mocked off I'm going to I'm going to get mocked off I'm going to I'm going to get mocked off the stage. That's what's going to the stage. That's what's going to the stage. That's what's going to happen." And it it was happen." And it it was happen." And it it was it was one of the clearest times I've it was one of the clearest times I've it was one of the clearest times I've ever heard the voice of the Holy Spirit ever heard the voice of the Holy Spirit ever heard the voice of the Holy Spirit in my life. And I hear the voice of the in my life. And I hear the voice of the in my life. And I hear the voice of the Holy Spirit in my heart, and it just He Holy Spirit in my heart, and it just He Holy Spirit in my heart, and it just He He says He said, "Luke," he said, He says He said, "Luke," he said, He says He said, "Luke," he said, "Goliath mocked," he said, "until his "Goliath mocked," he said, "until his "Goliath mocked," he said, "until his head fell from his shoulders." He said, head fell from his shoulders." He said, head fell from his shoulders." He said, "But his head fell." "But his head fell." "But his head fell." And he said, "You preach the gospel," And he said, "You preach the gospel," And he said, "You preach the gospel," and he said, "and do not pull punches." and he said, "and do not pull punches." and he said, "and do not pull punches." He goes, "This is not a do you want a He goes, "This is not a do you want a He goes, "This is not a do you want a little bit more of Jesus in your life? little bit more of Jesus in your life? little bit more of Jesus in your life? This is a call to leave all, forsake This is a call to leave all, forsake This is a call to leave all, forsake all, and follow Jesus." And he said, all, and follow Jesus." And he said, all, and follow Jesus." And he said, "And Goliath's head will fall." "And Goliath's head will fall." "And Goliath's head will fall." And it was this moment of where I'm like And it was this moment of where I'm like And it was this moment of where I'm like shaking in my room, like literally shaking in my room, like literally shaking in my room, like literally trembling, and it was it was All the trembling, and it was it was All the trembling, and it was it was All the fear didn't disappear immediately, but fear didn't disappear immediately, but fear didn't disappear immediately, but it went from it went to it went from it went to it went from it went to um instant peace Yeah. and confidence um instant peace Yeah. and confidence um instant peace Yeah. and confidence that God's with us.

that God's with us. that God's with us. And and and so we got up, and I mean, I And and and so we got up, and I mean, I And and and so we got up, and I mean, I open and I just say I say God sent me open and I just say I say God sent me open and I just say I say God sent me here tonight. And cuz the the guys get here tonight. And cuz the the guys get here tonight. And cuz the the guys get up and say, "Hey, we've got some up and say, "Hey, we've got some up and say, "Hey, we've got some friends. They want to friends. They want to friends. They want to tell you something." tell you something." tell you something." And and And and And and I said God sent me here tonight, and the I said God sent me here tonight, and the I said God sent me here tonight, and the first thing I hear is this kid from the first thing I hear is this kid from the first thing I hear is this kid from the front of the front of the crowd go, "Get front of the front of the crowd go, "Get front of the front of the crowd go, "Get the F off the stage." the F off the stage." the F off the stage." And I'm like, "Here we go." And I'm like, "Here we go." And I'm like, "Here we go." And one of the boys uh who were who And one of the boys uh who were who And one of the boys uh who were who started the raves, he points him out in started the raves, he points him out in started the raves, he points him out in the crowd and he goes, "Hey, you." He the crowd and he goes, "Hey, you." He the crowd and he goes, "Hey, you." He goes, "Shut up." He said, "You need goes, "Shut up." He said, "You need goes, "Shut up." He said, "You need this." He said, "We all need this." And this." He said, "We all need this." And this." He said, "We all need this." And I was shocked. I was shocked. I was shocked. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know. Yeah. And >> You know. Yeah. And >> You know. Yeah. And and so then he just kind of tosses it and so then he just kind of tosses it and so then he just kind of tosses it back to me like, "There you go." back to me like, "There you go." back to me like, "There you go." And so I'm So I start to preach and I And so I'm So I start to preach and I And so I'm So I start to preach and I just talk about I'm like I I'm going just talk about I'm like I I'm going just talk about I'm like I I'm going through Romans, basically. I'm going, through Romans, basically. I'm going, through Romans, basically. I'm going, "Hey, this is what the Bible says. The "Hey, this is what the Bible says. The "Hey, this is what the Bible says. The wages of sin is death." Like wages of sin is death." Like wages of sin is death." Like we think we're not that bad of people we think we're not that bad of people we think we're not that bad of people because we're living amongst a bunch of because we're living amongst a bunch of because we're living amongst a bunch of other really bad people. But it's when other really bad people. But it's when other really bad people. But it's when you compare yourself with a holy, you compare yourself with a holy, you compare yourself with a holy, righteous standard of God that you righteous standard of God that you righteous standard of God that you realize I'm so not like him. I'm so far realize I'm so not like him. I'm so far realize I'm so not like him. I'm so far from him. And and started pulling that from him. And and started pulling that from him. And and started pulling that that out and going we have to realize that out and going we have to realize that out and going we have to realize our distance from God to order our distance from God to order our distance from God to order understand our need for a savior, you understand our need for a savior, you understand our need for a savior, you know? And so I'm I'm pulling that out.

know? And so I'm I'm pulling that out. know? And so I'm I'm pulling that out. And they're still talking. And they're still talking. And they're still talking. And um this And um this And um this >> old when you're preaching this? >> old when you're preaching this? >> old when you're preaching this? >> This is 22, >> This is 22, >> This is 22, 23 maybe. 23 maybe. 23 maybe. >> Yeah, this is 20 2019, right? >> Yeah, this is 20 2019, right? >> Yeah, this is 20 2019, right? >> 2019, yeah. >> 2019, yeah. >> 2019, yeah. >> So I would have been What was it? Six >> So I would have been What was it? Six >> So I would have been What was it? Six years ago? So I would have been 22. years ago? So I would have been 22. years ago? So I would have been 22. And um And um And um and and and uh this has been highly misquoted as to uh this has been highly misquoted as to uh this has been highly misquoted as to what I actually said here. But there are what I actually said here. But there are what I actually said here. But there are people still kind of murmuring, talking. people still kind of murmuring, talking. people still kind of murmuring, talking. And And And I just I said I said, "Listen to me." I I just I said I said, "Listen to me." I I just I said I said, "Listen to me." I said, "Every single one of you one day said, "Every single one of you one day said, "Every single one of you one day is going to end up in the ground." is going to end up in the ground." is going to end up in the ground." And and the and the room still goes And and the and the room still goes And and the and the room still goes dead silent. dead silent. dead silent. I mean, it was like murmuring, people I mean, it was like murmuring, people I mean, it was like murmuring, people talking, and it just goes dead I mean, talking, and it just goes dead I mean, talking, and it just goes dead I mean, you could hear a pin drop. Like I have a you could hear a pin drop. Like I have a you could hear a pin drop. Like I have a video of it on my iPhone somewhere. video of it on my iPhone somewhere. video of it on my iPhone somewhere. Just pin drop. And I said, "The only Just pin drop. And I said, "The only Just pin drop. And I said, "The only thing that matters in this life is what thing that matters in this life is what thing that matters in this life is what you do with Jesus Christ." you do with Jesus Christ." you do with Jesus Christ." And so I just kind of continue in And so I just kind of continue in And so I just kind of continue in and give that call. and give that call. and give that call. And then um And then um And then um and and and I was so clear. I said, and and and I was so clear. I said, and and and I was so clear. I said, "Listen, I'm like, this is not a joke. "Listen, I'm like, this is not a joke. "Listen, I'm like, this is not a joke. I'm not asking you to raise your hand I'm not asking you to raise your hand I'm not asking you to raise your hand cuz you think it's funny or like, you cuz you think it's funny or like, you cuz you think it's funny or like, you know, yeah, I want Jesus." I'm like, know, yeah, I want Jesus." I'm like, know, yeah, I want Jesus." I'm like, "I'm telling you I'm asking you. If you "I'm telling you I'm asking you. If you "I'm telling you I'm asking you. If you are saying like I feel the conviction of are saying like I feel the conviction of are saying like I feel the conviction of the spirit of God, your heart is the spirit of God, your heart is the spirit of God, your heart is pounding out of your chest, and you want pounding out of your chest, and you want pounding out of your chest, and you want to give your life to Jesus, to give your life to Jesus, to give your life to Jesus, raise your hand on when I count to raise your hand on when I count to raise your hand on when I count to three."

three." three." And I go one, two, three, and before I And I go one, two, three, and before I And I go one, two, three, and before I can even count to three, Jake, who's one can even count to three, Jake, who's one can even count to three, Jake, who's one of the boys who's thrown the raves, puts of the boys who's thrown the raves, puts of the boys who's thrown the raves, puts his hand in the air. Mhm, it was his hand in the air. Mhm, it was his hand in the air. Mhm, it was amazing. And and then 400 plus others of amazing. And and then 400 plus others of amazing. And and then 400 plus others of them do. And we had a whole text system. them do. And we had a whole text system. them do. And we had a whole text system. So we had a we had a QR code where we So we had a we had a QR code where we So we had a we had a QR code where we had recorded 10 weeks of discipleship had recorded 10 weeks of discipleship had recorded 10 weeks of discipleship videos that if they scanned the QR code videos that if they scanned the QR code videos that if they scanned the QR code or they texted they texted the number, or they texted they texted the number, or they texted they texted the number, it would auto text them discipleship it would auto text them discipleship it would auto text them discipleship videos every week. So I'm encouraging videos every week. So I'm encouraging videos every week. So I'm encouraging them to go to church. This is how you them to go to church. This is how you them to go to church. This is how you read the Bible. Here's a link to a Bible read the Bible. Here's a link to a Bible read the Bible. Here's a link to a Bible reading plan. Like all these things. Um reading plan. Like all these things. Um reading plan. Like all these things. Um and so it was just and so it was just and so it was just unbelievable response, and then Daniel unbelievable response, and then Daniel unbelievable response, and then Daniel relaunches Wilco United out of that relaunches Wilco United out of that relaunches Wilco United out of that night. Out of the rave. night. Out of the rave. night. Out of the rave. >> And 500 kids show up at a church the >> And 500 kids show up at a church the >> And 500 kids show up at a church the next Friday. next Friday. next Friday. And And And I mean, the craziest part of the story I mean, the craziest part of the story I mean, the craziest part of the story is So that happens that night. Jake, the is So that happens that night. Jake, the is So that happens that night. Jake, the boy gives his life to Christ who was boy gives his life to Christ who was boy gives his life to Christ who was throwing the raves, a year later is throwing the raves, a year later is throwing the raves, a year later is driving in Dallas with some friends, and driving in Dallas with some friends, and driving in Dallas with some friends, and he falls asleep at the wheel and he he falls asleep at the wheel and he he falls asleep at the wheel and he passes away. And he dies. And his family passes away. And he dies. And his family passes away. And he dies. And his family called us and asked like, "Hey, would called us and asked like, "Hey, would called us and asked like, "Hey, would you come and share the gospel at his you come and share the gospel at his you come and share the gospel at his memorial service?" And 1,500 people show memorial service?" And 1,500 people show memorial service?" And 1,500 people show up on a soccer field 10 minutes from up on a soccer field 10 minutes from up on a soccer field 10 minutes from here here here um um um at Jake's memorial service, and then at Jake's memorial service, and then at Jake's memorial service, and then Daniel gets up and preaches the gospel Daniel gets up and preaches the gospel Daniel gets up and preaches the gospel at his memorial service, and 500 of at his memorial service, and 500 of at his memorial service, and 500 of Jake's high school friends, college Jake's high school friends, college Jake's high school friends, college friends, and his entire family all stand friends, and his entire family all stand friends, and his entire family all stand up to respond to the gospel when Daniel up to respond to the gospel when Daniel up to respond to the gospel when Daniel preaches the gospel.

preaches the gospel. preaches the gospel. >> giving an altar call at a funeral. >> giving an altar call at a funeral. >> giving an altar call at a funeral. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. And it's And it's And it's Yeah. So unreal. Yeah, unreal. It was Yeah. So unreal. Yeah, unreal. It was Yeah. So unreal. Yeah, unreal. It was unbelievable. unbelievable. unbelievable. >> Yeah. This episode is brought to you by >> Yeah. This episode is brought to you by >> Yeah. This episode is brought to you by my annual church trends report. If my annual church trends report. If my annual church trends report. If you're enjoying this episode, I think you're enjoying this episode, I think you're enjoying this episode, I think you're going to love my latest church you're going to love my latest church you're going to love my latest church trends report. For 2026, I've identified trends report. For 2026, I've identified trends report. For 2026, I've identified seven disruptive trends plus a mega seven disruptive trends plus a mega seven disruptive trends plus a mega trend that are shaping the future of the trend that are shaping the future of the trend that are shaping the future of the church. We're seeing Generation Z's church. We're seeing Generation Z's church. We're seeing Generation Z's surprising surge in church attendance, surprising surge in church attendance, surprising surge in church attendance, something almost nobody expected a something almost nobody expected a something almost nobody expected a couple years ago. There's a new boldness couple years ago. There's a new boldness couple years ago. There's a new boldness in evangelism that's really starting to in evangelism that's really starting to in evangelism that's really starting to emerge. Algorithms are quietly taking emerge. Algorithms are quietly taking emerge. Algorithms are quietly taking control of discipleship, and pastors, control of discipleship, and pastors, control of discipleship, and pastors, actually you're paying a price for that. actually you're paying a price for that. actually you're paying a price for that. And maybe most concerning of all, most And maybe most concerning of all, most And maybe most concerning of all, most churches still aren't ready for the AI churches still aren't ready for the AI churches still aren't ready for the AI revolution that's already reshaping revolution that's already reshaping revolution that's already reshaping leadership and soon the world and leadership and soon the world and leadership and soon the world and ministry. So those are just a few of the ministry. So those are just a few of the ministry. So those are just a few of the trends that we'll be unpacking this trends that we'll be unpacking this trends that we'll be unpacking this year. These trends are backed by data. year. These trends are backed by data. year. These trends are backed by data. I've done a lot of research into this I've done a lot of research into this I've done a lot of research into this report, much of which is collected by report, much of which is collected by report, much of which is collected by Barna, and I share my thoughts on why Barna, and I share my thoughts on why Barna, and I share my thoughts on why the data matters, what you can do about the data matters, what you can do about the data matters, what you can do about it, and how it should shape your it, and how it should shape your it, and how it should shape your ministry. So if you want to access head ministry. So if you want to access head ministry. So if you want to access head on over to 2026 churchtrends.com for on over to 2026 churchtrends.com for on over to 2026 churchtrends.com for free access or simply click the link in free access or simply click the link in free access or simply click the link in the description of this episode. I'll the description of this episode. I'll the description of this episode. I'll send you a copy right away, and you'll send you a copy right away, and you'll send you a copy right away, and you'll be in the loop for everything 2026 be in the loop for everything 2026 be in the loop for everything 2026 church trends related. Again, it's all church trends related. Again, it's all church trends related. Again, it's all free. Just click the link in the free. Just click the link in the free. Just click the link in the description of this episode or visit description of this episode or visit description of this episode or visit 2026 churchtrends.com.

2026 churchtrends.com. 2026 churchtrends.com. This episode is brought to you by church This episode is brought to you by church This episode is brought to you by church law and tax. Well, it's almost tax law and tax. Well, it's almost tax law and tax. Well, it's almost tax season, and it has a way of sneaking up season, and it has a way of sneaking up season, and it has a way of sneaking up on church leaders, right? So the on church leaders, right? So the on church leaders, right? So the question is, what do you do about that, question is, what do you do about that, question is, what do you do about that, right? It's so stressful. Are we doing right? It's so stressful. Are we doing right? It's so stressful. Are we doing this right? Are we getting all the boxes this right? Are we getting all the boxes this right? Are we getting all the boxes checked, right? Cuz you got tax filing, checked, right? Cuz you got tax filing, checked, right? Cuz you got tax filing, payroll, housing allowance, payroll, housing allowance, payroll, housing allowance, reimbursement. It's a lot, and that's reimbursement. It's a lot, and that's reimbursement. It's a lot, and that's why I want to point you to the online why I want to point you to the online why I want to point you to the online church and clergy tax guide from our church and clergy tax guide from our church and clergy tax guide from our friends at Church Law and Tax. For friends at Church Law and Tax. For friends at Church Law and Tax. For nearly 40 years, it has been the go-to nearly 40 years, it has been the go-to nearly 40 years, it has been the go-to resource US pastors trust to handle resource US pastors trust to handle resource US pastors trust to handle taxes with confidence. It's fully taxes with confidence. It's fully taxes with confidence. It's fully online, fully searchable, so you can online, fully searchable, so you can online, fully searchable, so you can find answers in seconds, and it's find answers in seconds, and it's find answers in seconds, and it's updated with the latest changes, updated with the latest changes, updated with the latest changes, including how to navigate the One Big including how to navigate the One Big including how to navigate the One Big Beautiful Bill Act. And now you can even Beautiful Bill Act. And now you can even Beautiful Bill Act. And now you can even ask Richie, their new AI assistant, how ask Richie, their new AI assistant, how ask Richie, their new AI assistant, how it applies to your church without the it applies to your church without the it applies to your church without the legal or tax jargon. So if you want to legal or tax jargon. So if you want to legal or tax jargon. So if you want to head into tax season prepared instead of head into tax season prepared instead of head into tax season prepared instead of panic, this is a great next step. So panic, this is a great next step. So panic, this is a great next step. So here's what you do. Go to here's what you do. Go to here's what you do. Go to churchlawandtax.com/kerry churchlawandtax.com/kerry churchlawandtax.com/kerry to become a member and access the guide to become a member and access the guide to become a member and access the guide today. That's church law and tax a n d t today. That's church law and tax a n d t today. That's church law and tax a n d t a x.com/c a r e y, and you will get in a x.com/c a r e y, and you will get in a x.com/c a r e y, and you will get in today.

today. today. See, that's the thing that See, that's the thing that See, that's the thing that first of all, incredible first of all, incredible first of all, incredible that you did it. that you did it. that you did it. Um Um Um that's the thing that amazes me about that's the thing that amazes me about that's the thing that amazes me about Gen Z, and I saw Tara Lee Cobble Gen Z, and I saw Tara Lee Cobble Gen Z, and I saw Tara Lee Cobble recently. She'll be back on the show recently. She'll be back on the show recently. She'll be back on the show again, and again, and again, and you know, I remember the first time I you know, I remember the first time I you know, I remember the first time I heard her speak, and she's like, "We heard her speak, and she's like, "We heard her speak, and she's like, "We want meat. We want meat." I think an want meat. We want meat." I think an want meat. We want meat." I think an older generation, and I'll put myself in older generation, and I'll put myself in older generation, and I'll put myself in that, might have been, you know, if that, might have been, you know, if that, might have been, you know, if you're preaching at a rave, it's like, you're preaching at a rave, it's like, you're preaching at a rave, it's like, "Hey, you're cool. Jesus is cool, too." "Hey, you're cool. Jesus is cool, too." "Hey, you're cool. Jesus is cool, too." Right? It would be Right? It would be Right? It would be >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. in a little bit. in a little bit. in a little bit. >> Yeah. You guys are just like, "You're >> Yeah. You guys are just like, "You're >> Yeah. You guys are just like, "You're all going to be in the ground." By the all going to be in the ground." By the all going to be in the ground." By the way, oh, that's what I was going to ask way, oh, that's what I was going to ask way, oh, that's what I was going to ask you. What did people think you said? you. What did people think you said? you. What did people think you said? What How do you get misquoted? What How do you get misquoted? What How do you get misquoted? Everybody's like you Like what did they Everybody's like you Like what did they Everybody's like you Like what did they You told them they're going to be in You told them they're going to be in You told them they're going to be in hell, right? What people say is like, hell, right? What people say is like, hell, right? What people say is like, "You're going to you're going to end up "You're going to you're going to end up "You're going to you're going to end up in the grave. Like you you should be six in the grave. Like you you should be six in the grave. Like you you should be six feet Like you should be in the grave." feet Like you should be in the grave." feet Like you should be in the grave." Like everybody's kind of I'm like, "I Like everybody's kind of I'm like, "I Like everybody's kind of I'm like, "I said they're going to end up in the said they're going to end up in the said they're going to end up in the ground." They're like, "You didn't say ground." They're like, "You didn't say ground." They're like, "You didn't say you should be in the ground. You didn't you should be in the ground. You didn't you should be in the ground. You didn't say you're going to hell." say you're going to hell." say you're going to hell." >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Yeah, exactly. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Okay. All right. >> Okay. All right. >> Okay. All right. >> Yeah. But just kind of that sobering >> Yeah. But just kind of that sobering >> Yeah. But just kind of that sobering moment where it's like yeah, this isn't moment where it's like yeah, this isn't moment where it's like yeah, this isn't going to last forever. Yeah. You're going to last forever. Yeah. You're going to last forever. Yeah. You're going to die. Yeah, so I going to die. Yeah, so I going to die. Yeah, so I I'm curious and I don't know that I'm curious and I don't know that I'm curious and I don't know that there's a good answer to this, but like there's a good answer to this, but like there's a good answer to this, but like why do you think it is you and you're why do you think it is you and you're why do you think it is you and you're not alone in this in your generation not alone in this in your generation not alone in this in your generation are like are like are like no, just give me the straight goods. I no, just give me the straight goods. I no, just give me the straight goods. I don't need window dressing. Just give me don't need window dressing. Just give me don't need window dressing. Just give me the gospel. Give me the unvarnished the gospel. Give me the unvarnished the gospel. Give me the unvarnished truth.

truth. truth. Where [clears throat] Where does that Where [clears throat] Where does that Where [clears throat] Where does that come from? Are you like I don't know, come from? Are you like I don't know, come from? Are you like I don't know, it's just always been there. Like cuz it's just always been there. Like cuz it's just always been there. Like cuz that that is a shift for sure. that that is a shift for sure. that that is a shift for sure. Definitely a shift. What would you say? Definitely a shift. What would you say? Definitely a shift. What would you say? I don't know. I was thinking about that I don't know. I was thinking about that I don't know. I was thinking about that a little bit today actually. a little bit today actually. a little bit today actually. Um Um Um just about how our generation is so just about how our generation is so just about how our generation is so hungry for truth, authenticity. hungry for truth, authenticity. hungry for truth, authenticity. I think that just kind of with I think that just kind of with I think that just kind of with social media and public platforms you social media and public platforms you social media and public platforms you see public fallings. You know, it's see public fallings. You know, it's see public fallings. You know, it's things are just more clear in that way things are just more clear in that way things are just more clear in that way and then you see and then you see and then you see um just um just um just because things are more public you see because things are more public you see because things are more public you see also the lies as well. also the lies as well. also the lies as well. Um so Um so Um so um I did like a poll today on like what um I did like a poll today on like what um I did like a poll today on like what are the biggest attributes that you are the biggest attributes that you are the biggest attributes that you value within a friend. I put like value within a friend. I put like value within a friend. I put like trust, loyalty, communication, and trust, loyalty, communication, and trust, loyalty, communication, and empathy. empathy. empathy. Um and like majority Um and like majority Um and like majority everyone put loyalty or trust. everyone put loyalty or trust. everyone put loyalty or trust. Um and I felt like it said a lot though Um and I felt like it said a lot though Um and I felt like it said a lot though about our it was a lot of people in my about our it was a lot of people in my about our it was a lot of people in my generation. generation. generation. Um I feel like it said a lot about just Um I feel like it said a lot about just Um I feel like it said a lot about just like their heart is like they like their heart is like they like their heart is like they they want some something stable that and they want some something stable that and they want some something stable that and then they want someone they can trust.

then they want someone they can trust. then they want someone they can trust. Um and I think that they've seen just Um and I think that they've seen just Um and I think that they've seen just the they just like just give it to me the they just like just give it to me the they just like just give it to me raw so I can trust it, you know, like I raw so I can trust it, you know, like I raw so I can trust it, you know, like I don't know if you're sugarcoating this. don't know if you're sugarcoating this. don't know if you're sugarcoating this. I don't know if you're I don't know if you're I don't know if you're you have a ill intent, you're going to you have a ill intent, you're going to you have a ill intent, you're going to backhand me, whatever it might be, but backhand me, whatever it might be, but backhand me, whatever it might be, but I [snorts] just think it just kind of I [snorts] just think it just kind of I [snorts] just think it just kind of scream like the heart scream like the heart scream like the heart you know, hardly anyone said empathy, you know, hardly anyone said empathy, you know, hardly anyone said empathy, which was very interesting. Yeah, that which was very interesting. Yeah, that which was very interesting. Yeah, that is. And then communication was third, is. And then communication was third, is. And then communication was third, but it's been but it's been but it's been so far it's been trust and loyalty. so far it's been trust and loyalty. so far it's been trust and loyalty. Um were top ones, but then I was just Um were top ones, but then I was just Um were top ones, but then I was just trying I was thinking about Jesus though trying I was thinking about Jesus though trying I was thinking about Jesus though as a friend. as a friend. as a friend. And he is all of those things to the And he is all of those things to the And he is all of those things to the fullest extent, which is the beautiful fullest extent, which is the beautiful fullest extent, which is the beautiful thing. thing. thing. Um but I just was thinking like wow, Um but I just was thinking like wow, Um but I just was thinking like wow, this is like such a heart cry. this is like such a heart cry. this is like such a heart cry. Um Um Um so it's really interesting. so it's really interesting. so it's really interesting. What do you think? Any thought on that? What do you think? Any thought on that? What do you think? Any thought on that? Yeah. You know, I feel like I would be Yeah. You know, I feel like I would be Yeah. You know, I feel like I would be just kind of conjecture sort of just kind of conjecture sort of just kind of conjecture sort of spitballing on this a little bit, but I spitballing on this a little bit, but I spitballing on this a little bit, but I mean I think part of it is um mean I think part of it is um mean I think part of it is um maybe the fallout of like secularism and maybe the fallout of like secularism and maybe the fallout of like secularism and moral relativism where people are going moral relativism where people are going moral relativism where people are going like like like something has to be true.

something has to be true. something has to be true. There must be something that's true. Of There must be something that's true. Of There must be something that's true. Of I think that kind of is came to it its I think that kind of is came to it its I think that kind of is came to it its end in end in end in not its full end, but the bottom kind of not its full end, but the bottom kind of not its full end, but the bottom kind of fell out from under it for our fell out from under it for our fell out from under it for our generation. generation. generation. Um and so they're just going there's Um and so they're just going there's Um and so they're just going there's something has to be true. something has to be true. something has to be true. Always true. And what is it? And and and Always true. And what is it? And and and Always true. And what is it? And and and whoever is whoever is whoever is shouting at the loudest like shouting at the loudest like shouting at the loudest like and believes it the most. Like who's the and believes it the most. Like who's the and believes it the most. Like who's the who's the most convicted themselves that who's the most convicted themselves that who's the most convicted themselves that this is absolutely true and and I'll this is absolutely true and and I'll this is absolutely true and and I'll jump on that. So I think there's that jump on that. So I think there's that jump on that. So I think there's that piece of it they're looking for we don't piece of it they're looking for we don't piece of it they're looking for we don't quite know what to believe. I think AI quite know what to believe. I think AI quite know what to believe. I think AI is even contributing to that of we're is even contributing to that of we're is even contributing to that of we're like we don't know what's real. Like like we don't know what's real. Like like we don't know what's real. Like what what do what is there to believe? what what do what is there to believe? what what do what is there to believe? >> 2020 though was a big part of it if >> 2020 though was a big part of it if >> 2020 though was a big part of it if we're going to be honest. we're going to be honest. we're going to be honest. >> How so? Because there's the polarization >> How so? Because there's the polarization >> How so? Because there's the polarization and then you had lots of lies and then and then you had lots of lies and then and then you had lots of lies and then everything you looked at on your phone everything you looked at on your phone everything you looked at on your phone was fact checks, right? So then you was fact checks, right? So then you was fact checks, right? So then you don't even know what's accurate. don't even know what's accurate. don't even know what's accurate. >> Everyone became an expert. Yeah. >> Everyone became an expert. Yeah. >> Everyone became an expert. Yeah. Exactly. So it made a it brought a lot Exactly. So it made a it brought a lot Exactly. So it made a it brought a lot of distrust to a generation, I believe. of distrust to a generation, I believe. of distrust to a generation, I believe. Um and I think it really just wasn't Um and I think it really just wasn't Um and I think it really just wasn't exposing year. It was like 2020 we exposing year. It was like 2020 we exposing year. It was like 2020 we actually began to see like more clear actually began to see like more clear actually began to see like more clear that we can't trust. Yeah. You know, and that we can't trust. Yeah. You know, and that we can't trust. Yeah. You know, and so trust was such a big thing. They're so trust was such a big thing. They're so trust was such a big thing. They're like just give it to me like it is and like just give it to me like it is and like just give it to me like it is and it it carried over into the church, too.

it it carried over into the church, too. it it carried over into the church, too. Just give it to me like it is. Give it Just give it to me like it is. Give it Just give it to me like it is. Give it to me raw. to me raw. to me raw. But but you know, okay, so let's let's But but you know, okay, so let's let's But but you know, okay, so let's let's let's go there cuz I'm let's go there cuz I'm let's go there cuz I'm I'm a huge fan of younger adults, what I'm a huge fan of younger adults, what I'm a huge fan of younger adults, what God's doing in the next generation, but God's doing in the next generation, but God's doing in the next generation, but like okay, so there's a crisis in trust, like okay, so there's a crisis in trust, like okay, so there's a crisis in trust, which I totally get and I believe there which I totally get and I believe there which I totally get and I believe there has to be an objective like the whole has to be an objective like the whole has to be an objective like the whole moral relativism thing. I'm like I don't moral relativism thing. I'm like I don't moral relativism thing. I'm like I don't want a morally relative electrician want a morally relative electrician want a morally relative electrician working on my house. It actually matters working on my house. It actually matters working on my house. It actually matters whether the white wires are connected whether the white wires are connected whether the white wires are connected with the white wires and the black with with the white wires and the black with with the white wires and the black with the black and the red with the red. Like the black and the red with the red. Like the black and the red with the red. Like this counts. Otherwise you got a fire. this counts. Otherwise you got a fire. this counts. Otherwise you got a fire. Like people are going to get hurt, Like people are going to get hurt, Like people are going to get hurt, right? Like truth is objective at some right? Like truth is objective at some right? Like truth is objective at some level. Absolutely. And at the most level. Absolutely. And at the most level. Absolutely. And at the most fundamental level it's objective. fundamental level it's objective. fundamental level it's objective. But like if there's a crisis in trust But like if there's a crisis in trust But like if there's a crisis in trust you know, you mentioned moral failure in you know, you mentioned moral failure in you know, you mentioned moral failure in the church. Why the church? Cuz there's the church. Why the church? Cuz there's the church. Why the church? Cuz there's lots and lots of leaders unfortunately, lots and lots of leaders unfortunately, lots and lots of leaders unfortunately, a long list of leaders who have breached a long list of leaders who have breached a long list of leaders who have breached the trust of the people they serve. the trust of the people they serve. the trust of the people they serve. So So So why the church?

That's such a good question. I was That's such a good question. I was thinking I was thinking about thinking I was thinking about thinking I was thinking about even part of that question even part of that question even part of that question today cuz I was having a conversation today cuz I was having a conversation today cuz I was having a conversation with um with um with um with a pastor last week and he pastors with a pastor last week and he pastors with a pastor last week and he pastors one of the largest churches in London. one of the largest churches in London. one of the largest churches in London. He's a Nigerian pastor. He's a Nigerian pastor. He's a Nigerian pastor. And it's exploding with young people and And it's exploding with young people and And it's exploding with young people and he got about 200 of the top pastors in he got about 200 of the top pastors in he got about 200 of the top pastors in the UK together a month or two ago and the UK together a month or two ago and the UK together a month or two ago and they had a meeting and he was like we they had a meeting and he was like we they had a meeting and he was like we all just sat down and we we said all just sat down and we we said all just sat down and we we said this was his something. He's like this this was his something. He's like this this was his something. He's like this has to be a move of God. He's like in has to be a move of God. He's like in has to be a move of God. He's like in the stirring that's happening in a the stirring that's happening in a the stirring that's happening in a generation. It just there's parts of it generation. It just there's parts of it generation. It just there's parts of it that feel sovereign in a way where he's that feel sovereign in a way where he's that feel sovereign in a way where he's going going going we he's like we he's like we he's like we don't know what like why they're we don't know what like why they're we don't know what like why they're coming. We we can't we can't he's like coming. We we can't we can't he's like coming. We we can't we can't he's like we can kind of look to some of the we can kind of look to some of the we can kind of look to some of the things in the culture. He goes part of things in the culture. He goes part of things in the culture. He goes part of it and and I don't like I'm not trying it and and I don't like I'm not trying it and and I don't like I'm not trying to blanket going it's just a sovereignty to blanket going it's just a sovereignty to blanket going it's just a sovereignty of God and that's what's happening and of God and that's what's happening and of God and that's what's happening and but I don't think it can be but I don't think it can be but I don't think it can be underestimated underestimated underestimated the the level of sovereign answer to the the level of sovereign answer to the the level of sovereign answer to prayer that's happening right now prayer that's happening right now prayer that's happening right now in the church cuz I mean I remember this in the church cuz I mean I remember this in the church cuz I mean I remember this was a few years ago another time where I was a few years ago another time where I was a few years ago another time where I feel like I really heard the Holy Spirit feel like I really heard the Holy Spirit feel like I really heard the Holy Spirit speak to me as I was in a time of prayer speak to me as I was in a time of prayer speak to me as I was in a time of prayer and I feel like I heard the Lord say and I feel like I heard the Lord say and I feel like I heard the Lord say Luke I want you to be very careful.

Luke I want you to be very careful. Luke I want you to be very careful. And I don't know if I mentioned this to And I don't know if I mentioned this to And I don't know if I mentioned this to you before. you before. you before. And I it just feel like you're I want And I it just feel like you're I want And I it just feel like you're I want you to be very careful. you to be very careful. you to be very careful. He said because He said because He said because and it was this beginning sense of I and it was this beginning sense of I and it was this beginning sense of I think something's coming in our think something's coming in our think something's coming in our generation like a true move of the generation like a true move of the generation like a true move of the spirit in our in our generation. spirit in our in our generation. spirit in our in our generation. And I felt like he said I want you to be And I felt like he said I want you to be And I felt like he said I want you to be very careful because you're going to be very careful because you're going to be very careful because you're going to be tempted you and your generation are tempted you and your generation are tempted you and your generation are going to be tempted to think that you going to be tempted to think that you going to be tempted to think that you caused what's coming. caused what's coming. caused what's coming. And he said he said so you need to be And he said he said so you need to be And he said he said so you need to be very humble. You need to stay very low. very humble. You need to stay very low. very humble. You need to stay very low. And he said And he said And he said he said because you're getting ready to he said because you're getting ready to he said because you're getting ready to reap a harvest you did not sow. reap a harvest you did not sow. reap a harvest you did not sow. And and but the sentiment was I think And and but the sentiment was I think And and but the sentiment was I think especially just even if I could just say especially just even if I could just say especially just even if I could just say thank you to leaders who are listening thank you to leaders who are listening thank you to leaders who are listening that are older than us that are older than us that are older than us who have sowed and plowed and prayed for who have sowed and plowed and prayed for who have sowed and plowed and prayed for years. years. years. And And And who have plowed the ground, planted the who have plowed the ground, planted the who have plowed the ground, planted the seed, have cried out to God. seed, have cried out to God. seed, have cried out to God. And and God's answering those prayers And and God's answering those prayers And and God's answering those prayers and our generation's just showing up at and our generation's just showing up at and our generation's just showing up at the right time to help reap it. You the right time to help reap it. You the right time to help reap it. You know, and so I think I I don't think you know, and so I think I I don't think you know, and so I think I I don't think you can you can discount can you can discount can you can discount that piece of it that it's that yes, that piece of it that it's that yes, that piece of it that it's that yes, there are nature versus nurture cultural there are nature versus nurture cultural there are nature versus nurture cultural climate aspects, but part of it to me is climate aspects, but part of it to me is climate aspects, but part of it to me is I'm going I think some of this is a I'm going I think some of this is a I'm going I think some of this is a sovereign sovereign sovereign answer from God.

answer from God. answer from God. 100%. 100%. 100%. Yeah, you know, and it's a good reminder Yeah, you know, and it's a good reminder Yeah, you know, and it's a good reminder that despite all the problems with the that despite all the problems with the that despite all the problems with the church church church still his church. still his church. still his church. >> 100% and his At the end of the day >> 100% and his At the end of the day >> 100% and his At the end of the day I will build my church and yeah, that I will build my church and yeah, that I will build my church and yeah, that one's gone, that one's gone, that one's one's gone, that one's gone, that one's one's gone, that one's gone, that one's gone, that one's gone, that one's gone, gone, that one's gone, that one's gone, gone, that one's gone, that one's gone, but I'm still building my church. That's but I'm still building my church. That's but I'm still building my church. That's a that's a good reminder we need to hear a that's a good reminder we need to hear a that's a good reminder we need to hear because it seems like there's there's because it seems like there's there's because it seems like there's there's you know, maybe some deconversion going you know, maybe some deconversion going you know, maybe some deconversion going on among Gen Z women, which we can talk on among Gen Z women, which we can talk on among Gen Z women, which we can talk about in a little bit. Yeah. about in a little bit. Yeah. about in a little bit. Yeah. The data is certainly pointing in that The data is certainly pointing in that The data is certainly pointing in that direction, but you saw more of the direction, but you saw more of the direction, but you saw more of the disillusionment in millennials, right? disillusionment in millennials, right? disillusionment in millennials, right? The deconversion The deconversion The deconversion disillusionment in millennials who are disillusionment in millennials who are disillusionment in millennials who are now well into their 40s in some cases. now well into their 40s in some cases. now well into their 40s in some cases. And that doesn't seem to be happening at And that doesn't seem to be happening at And that doesn't seem to be happening at the same scale with your generation, the same scale with your generation, the same scale with your generation, which is interesting. which is interesting. which is interesting. So young men So young men So young men are coming to church. are coming to church. are coming to church. You probably seen that. New York Times You probably seen that. New York Times You probably seen that. New York Times article yesterday about the rising article yesterday about the rising article yesterday about the rising Eastern Eastern Orthodoxy. Yeah, Eastern Eastern Orthodoxy. Yeah, Eastern Eastern Orthodoxy. Yeah, actually one of our producers actually one of our producers actually one of our producers on this podcast, Jack you know, on this podcast, Jack you know, on this podcast, Jack you know, going to an Eastern Orthodoxy. There he going to an Eastern Orthodoxy. There he going to an Eastern Orthodoxy. There he is over there behind the cameras. You is over there behind the cameras. You is over there behind the cameras. You know, how old are you, Jack? 24. 24, know, how old are you, Jack? 24. 24, know, how old are you, Jack? 24. 24, exactly.

exactly. exactly. And I was I was doing some time spending And I was I was doing some time spending And I was I was doing some time spending some time with Michael Hyatt here while some time with Michael Hyatt here while some time with Michael Hyatt here while we're in Nashville and you said oh, I go we're in Nashville and you said oh, I go we're in Nashville and you said oh, I go to Michael Hyatt's church. I'm like, you to Michael Hyatt's church. I'm like, you to Michael Hyatt's church. I'm like, you know, Michael's uh know, Michael's uh know, Michael's uh Orthodox, you know, dude. Yeah, yeah, Orthodox, you know, dude. Yeah, yeah, Orthodox, you know, dude. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he and his wife are yeah. Yeah, he and his wife are yeah. Yeah, he and his wife are Orthodox. Orthodox. Orthodox. One of the deacons Jack says. Cool. Hey, One of the deacons Jack says. Cool. Hey, One of the deacons Jack says. Cool. Hey, make a little appearance here, Jack. make a little appearance here, Jack. make a little appearance here, Jack. Say hi to everybody. So people are like Say hi to everybody. So people are like Say hi to everybody. So people are like it looks like looks looks like Eastern it looks like looks looks like Eastern it looks like looks looks like Eastern Orthodox for sure. Orthodox for sure. Orthodox for sure. No, no, I'm kidding. No, no, I'm kidding. No, no, I'm kidding. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Oh, did you really? Is that like an >> Oh, did you really? Is that like an >> Oh, did you really? Is that like an Eastern Orthodox thing? Eastern Orthodox thing? Eastern Orthodox thing? It's It's It's I guess kind of. It's like a joke. It's I guess kind of. It's like a joke. It's I guess kind of. It's like a joke. It's like a joke. Yeah. like a joke. Yeah. like a joke. Yeah. Yeah. So you see that, right? So in in Yeah. So you see that, right? So in in Yeah. So you see that, right? So in in your experience and we could pull up your experience and we could pull up your experience and we could pull up another chair and everything for Jack. another chair and everything for Jack. another chair and everything for Jack. But like what what is driving that? Why But like what what is driving that? Why But like what what is driving that? Why the appeal the appeal the appeal to Eastern Orthodoxy? There's longer to Eastern Orthodoxy? There's longer to Eastern Orthodoxy? There's longer services. It's more sensory. services. It's more sensory. services. It's more sensory. Um Um Um it's harder. Yeah. Depending on where it's harder. Yeah. Depending on where it's harder. Yeah. Depending on where you are, sometimes there's no chairs, no you are, sometimes there's no chairs, no you are, sometimes there's no chairs, no pews. You just stand pews. You just stand pews. You just stand for hours at a time. What What do you for hours at a time. What What do you for hours at a time. What What do you think is that call?

think is that call? think is that call? I think it's I think the Orthodox I think it's I think the Orthodox I think it's I think the Orthodox um movement I wouldn't even call it um movement I wouldn't even call it um movement I wouldn't even call it right now is right now is right now is it's that longing for real truth of it's that longing for real truth of it's that longing for real truth of going back to the roots of what actually going back to the roots of what actually going back to the roots of what actually is the founding of the church. is the founding of the church. is the founding of the church. So I think that a lot of young people So I think that a lot of young people So I think that a lot of young people are going like well, if this is actually are going like well, if this is actually are going like well, if this is actually legit, let's go back. And then you're legit, let's go back. And then you're legit, let's go back. And then you're also seeing a movement for also seeing a movement for also seeing a movement for Catholicism. I don't know if you guys Catholicism. I don't know if you guys Catholicism. I don't know if you guys have seen have seen have seen >> Yeah, yeah, that's surging in Europe >> Yeah, yeah, that's surging in Europe >> Yeah, yeah, that's surging in Europe right now. I was talking to some people right now. I was talking to some people right now. I was talking to some people from France. from France. from France. >> and and Catholicism. And I think it's >> and and Catholicism. And I think it's >> and and Catholicism. And I think it's both the same longing. These are both the same longing. These are both the same longing. These are ancient. ancient. ancient. >> Yeah, the ancient. So, that that's >> Yeah, the ancient. So, that that's >> Yeah, the ancient. So, that that's honestly what I think. I think that's a honestly what I think. I think that's a honestly what I think. I think that's a huge piece of it. I think also part of huge piece of it. I think also part of huge piece of it. I think also part of it is um it is um it is um I think there's a lot of Gen Z men I think there's a lot of Gen Z men I think there's a lot of Gen Z men pushing back against the like that their pushing back against the like that their pushing back against the like that their masculinity is toxic. masculinity is toxic. masculinity is toxic. >> Mhm, yeah, that too. >> Mhm, yeah, that too. >> Mhm, yeah, that too. >> And so they're going like, "Well, what >> And so they're going like, "Well, what >> And so they're going like, "Well, what do I do with myself?" Um and how do I do with myself?" Um and how do I do with myself?" Um and how [clears throat] do how does this [clears throat] do how does this [clears throat] do how does this actually look actually look actually look in a healthy way? Like, I know I have in a healthy way? Like, I know I have in a healthy way? Like, I know I have strength. How do I use it? Like, I know strength. How do I use it? Like, I know strength. How do I use it? Like, I know that I I am you know called to provide that I I am you know called to provide that I I am you know called to provide and protect and cover and like and and and protect and cover and like and and and protect and cover and like and and I'm not a woman. Like, how how do I I'm not a woman. Like, how how do I I'm not a woman. Like, how how do I engage that in a healthy way cuz engage that in a healthy way cuz engage that in a healthy way cuz everybody's telling me that who I am is everybody's telling me that who I am is everybody's telling me that who I am is is toxic? And so, I think they're is toxic? And so, I think they're is toxic? And so, I think they're finding answers to that in the church is finding answers to that in the church is finding answers to that in the church is a big part of that, I would say. Well, a big part of that, I would say. Well, a big part of that, I would say. Well, that's what I talked about in the church that's what I talked about in the church that's what I talked about in the church trends, you know, videos and the piece I trends, you know, videos and the piece I trends, you know, videos and the piece I wrote. You know, the original article wrote. You know, the original article wrote. You know, the original article the the source article is 5,000 words.

the the source article is 5,000 words. the the source article is 5,000 words. So, spent a lot of time deep diving. So, spent a lot of time deep diving. So, spent a lot of time deep diving. And, you know, one of one of the things And, you know, one of one of the things And, you know, one of one of the things that has come up is that you're right, a that has come up is that you're right, a that has come up is that you're right, a lot of the culture is, "Well, men are lot of the culture is, "Well, men are lot of the culture is, "Well, men are toxic." and so on and so forth. And what toxic." and so on and so forth. And what toxic." and so on and so forth. And what do you do do you do do you do with young men? Scott Galloway, who's with young men? Scott Galloway, who's with young men? Scott Galloway, who's not a Christian, has been talking about not a Christian, has been talking about not a Christian, has been talking about this. It's like, "This is a a lost this. It's like, "This is a a lost this. It's like, "This is a a lost generation." in many ways. And so, you generation." in many ways. And so, you generation." in many ways. And so, you think in the church think in the church think in the church you find your your life has meaning. You you find your your life has meaning. You you find your your life has meaning. You have a purpose. You have a role. You are have a purpose. You have a role. You are have a purpose. You have a role. You are part of the kingdom of God. You belong part of the kingdom of God. You belong part of the kingdom of God. You belong here. Yep. And so, that might be here. Yep. And so, that might be here. Yep. And so, that might be underneath some of the the surging men underneath some of the the surging men underneath some of the the surging men to church. What do you think of a part to church. What do you think of a part to church. What do you think of a part And listen, we're going to caveat this And listen, we're going to caveat this And listen, we're going to caveat this entire conversation with sovereign move entire conversation with sovereign move entire conversation with sovereign move of God. Let's not take credit where of God. Let's not take credit where of God. Let's not take credit where credit is not due. Okay, but it's credit is not due. Okay, but it's credit is not due. Okay, but it's helpful for us to understand it because helpful for us to understand it because helpful for us to understand it because to your point to your point to your point there are a lot of us my age, older, but there are a lot of us my age, older, but there are a lot of us my age, older, but younger who prayed for moments like this younger who prayed for moments like this younger who prayed for moments like this our whole life and never seen them. our whole life and never seen them. our whole life and never seen them. And now we're in a moment where we're And now we're in a moment where we're And now we're in a moment where we're seeing the beginning of that uptick, seeing the beginning of that uptick, seeing the beginning of that uptick, which I'm I'm really excited about. But, which I'm I'm really excited about. But, which I'm I'm really excited about. But, what other explanations are there in what other explanations are there in what other explanations are there in your mind for what is making it your mind for what is making it your mind for what is making it um compelling for young men like um compelling for young men like um compelling for young men like yourself yourself yourself to be at the church and to be engaging to be at the church and to be engaging to be at the church and to be engaging in scripture? Cuz Bible reading's in scripture? Cuz Bible reading's in scripture? Cuz Bible reading's through the roof, too.

through the roof, too. through the roof, too. >> That is through the roof. >> That is through the roof. >> That is through the roof. What do you say? What do you say? What do you say? I mean, I think it goes back to what you I mean, I think it goes back to what you I mean, I think it goes back to what you were talking about when you were given were talking about when you were given were talking about when you were given that call that call that call at a young age. Um and you said this is at a young age. Um and you said this is at a young age. Um and you said this is like like like a whole generation. Like, you were he a whole generation. Like, you were he a whole generation. Like, you were he was I've heard Luke say this about how was I've heard Luke say this about how was I've heard Luke say this about how you have like the LGBTQ movement, you you have like the LGBTQ movement, you you have like the LGBTQ movement, you have the black Black Lives Matters have the black Black Lives Matters have the black Black Lives Matters movement. You have all these different movement. You have all these different movement. You have all these different movements and like a generation is just movements and like a generation is just movements and like a generation is just looking for something to give their looking for something to give their looking for something to give their lives for. lives for. lives for. And lives to. And I think that they're And lives to. And I think that they're And lives to. And I think that they're seeing that they can men will find their seeing that they can men will find their seeing that they can men will find their life when they lose it, you know, when life when they lose it, you know, when life when they lose it, you know, when they lay it down. And that's actually they lay it down. And that's actually they lay it down. And that's actually what a man was made to do what a man was made to do what a man was made to do um to God and then to a household and um to God and then to a household and um to God and then to a household and family. And I just think that men are family. And I just think that men are family. And I just think that men are just realizing this sacrificial life is just realizing this sacrificial life is just realizing this sacrificial life is true biblical masculinity. Um so, that's true biblical masculinity. Um so, that's true biblical masculinity. Um so, that's genuinely what I think is happening is genuinely what I think is happening is genuinely what I think is happening is like they're just saying, "Wow, this is like they're just saying, "Wow, this is like they're just saying, "Wow, this is this is what it actually is." I feel this is what it actually is." I feel this is what it actually is." I feel like we have been like we have been like we have been and I see this on social media all over and I see this on social media all over and I see this on social media all over the place right now as it is. But, I the place right now as it is. But, I the place right now as it is. But, I think we we've been sold like the easy think we we've been sold like the easy think we we've been sold like the easy life is the good life. Like, just But, life is the good life. Like, just But, life is the good life. Like, just But, what the way I'd put it is I think a what the way I'd put it is I think a what the way I'd put it is I think a generation's finding out that ease is generation's finding out that ease is generation's finding out that ease is empty.

empty. empty. Um and you are like I mean, it's Um and you are like I mean, it's Um and you are like I mean, it's everything from everything from everything from um you know, cuz it used to be like for um you know, cuz it used to be like for um you know, cuz it used to be like for my parents' generation, it was like, my parents' generation, it was like, my parents' generation, it was like, "Work this job so that you can retire, "Work this job so that you can retire, "Work this job so that you can retire, move into a retirement community and move into a retirement community and move into a retirement community and play pickleball." play pickleball." play pickleball." >> Condo and you go sit on the beach till >> Condo and you go sit on the beach till >> Condo and you go sit on the beach till you die. you die. you die. >> golf till you die and and and at the >> golf till you die and and and at the >> golf till you die and and and at the beach. And like, and I love golf, you beach. And like, and I love golf, you beach. And like, and I love golf, you know, and the beach. But, so that was know, and the beach. But, so that was know, and the beach. But, so that was that was kind of for our parents' that was kind of for our parents' that was kind of for our parents' generation. For our generation now, it's generation. For our generation now, it's generation. For our generation now, it's like, "Hey, you can I mean, I get ads 15 like, "Hey, you can I mean, I get ads 15 like, "Hey, you can I mean, I get ads 15 times a day on social media for um I had times a day on social media for um I had times a day on social media for um I had >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> [clears throat] >> I'm an entrepreneur and I had a $400,000 >> I'm an entrepreneur and I had a $400,000 >> I'm an entrepreneur and I had a $400,000 month with my new business." And the the month with my new business." And the the month with my new business." And the the rebranding of that for us is like rebranding of that for us is like rebranding of that for us is like >> yeah. "You don't have to wait till >> yeah. "You don't have to wait till >> yeah. "You don't have to wait till you're 55, 60, 65 to retire. Like, we you're 55, 60, 65 to retire. Like, we you're 55, 60, 65 to retire. Like, we can get you to ease can get you to ease can get you to ease now." And so, it's being sold of like now." And so, it's being sold of like now." And so, it's being sold of like this oh ease is is the good life. Like, this oh ease is is the good life. Like, this oh ease is is the good life. Like, that's And they're find And we're that's And they're find And we're that's And they're find And we're finding out it's like, finding out it's like, finding out it's like, "Ease is empty." Like, what's through "Ease is empty." Like, what's through "Ease is empty." Like, what's through the roof is like, have you heard of bed the roof is like, have you heard of bed the roof is like, have you heard of bed rotting? You know, bed rotting? rotting? You know, bed rotting? rotting? You know, bed rotting? >> Yeah, yeah. It's like the >> Yeah, yeah. It's like the >> Yeah, yeah. It's like the all the bed rotting stuff where it's all the bed rotting stuff where it's all the bed rotting stuff where it's like they'll just you know, hang in bed like they'll just you know, hang in bed like they'll just you know, hang in bed for 6 hours on a Saturday or something for 6 hours on a Saturday or something for 6 hours on a Saturday or something like that. Like, there's like I think like that. Like, there's like I think like that. Like, there's like I think Gen Z on average was the last stat that Gen Z on average was the last stat that Gen Z on average was the last stat that I saw is spending like 20 plus or 30 I saw is spending like 20 plus or 30 I saw is spending like 20 plus or 30 plus days a year bed rotting or plus days a year bed rotting or plus days a year bed rotting or something. I read that, too.

something. I read that, too. something. I read that, too. >> high. Unreal. And so, it's like it's so >> high. Unreal. And so, it's like it's so >> high. Unreal. And so, it's like it's so high through the and and then they're high through the and and then they're high through the and and then they're just going like, "This just going like, "This just going like, "This this isn't it." Yeah, brain rotting bed this isn't it." Yeah, brain rotting bed this isn't it." Yeah, brain rotting bed rotting Yeah, same time. This episode is rotting Yeah, same time. This episode is rotting Yeah, same time. This episode is brought to you by Belay. Hey leaders, brought to you by Belay. Hey leaders, brought to you by Belay. Hey leaders, let's talk about the heartbeat of your let's talk about the heartbeat of your let's talk about the heartbeat of your ministry, your church's giving health. ministry, your church's giving health. ministry, your church's giving health. In a season when donor habits are In a season when donor habits are In a season when donor habits are shifting and generosity looks a lot shifting and generosity looks a lot shifting and generosity looks a lot different than it did even a few years different than it did even a few years different than it did even a few years ago, the way you steward gifts matters ago, the way you steward gifts matters ago, the way you steward gifts matters more than ever. Belay Financial more than ever. Belay Financial more than ever. Belay Financial Solutions pairs busy church leaders with Solutions pairs busy church leaders with Solutions pairs busy church leaders with a US-based vetted financial expert who a US-based vetted financial expert who a US-based vetted financial expert who understands the unique rhythms of understands the unique rhythms of understands the unique rhythms of ministry giving. From tracking donations ministry giving. From tracking donations ministry giving. From tracking donations to timely reporting, Belay helps you to timely reporting, Belay helps you to timely reporting, Belay helps you move beyond gut feel decision-making so move beyond gut feel decision-making so move beyond gut feel decision-making so you can lead with confidence. And you can lead with confidence. And you can lead with confidence. And because giving patterns continue to because giving patterns continue to because giving patterns continue to evolve, Belay wants to equip you with a evolve, Belay wants to equip you with a evolve, Belay wants to equip you with a deeper understanding of exactly what's deeper understanding of exactly what's deeper understanding of exactly what's changing. So, grab this free resource changing. So, grab this free resource changing. So, grab this free resource from our friends at Belay called The from our friends at Belay called The from our friends at Belay called The Giving Shift, a guide to new donor Giving Shift, a guide to new donor Giving Shift, a guide to new donor trends and behaviors. It's designed to trends and behaviors. It's designed to trends and behaviors. It's designed to help you navigate shifting generosity, help you navigate shifting generosity, help you navigate shifting generosity, engage your donors well, and plan for a engage your donors well, and plan for a engage your donors well, and plan for a sustainable future. To download it sustainable future. To download it sustainable future. To download it instantly, text my name, Carey, to instantly, text my name, Carey, to instantly, text my name, Carey, to 55123.

55123. 55123. That's c a r e y to 55123. That's c a r e y to 55123. That's c a r e y to 55123. You can text that right now. You can text that right now. You can text that right now. You said something at our live event in You said something at our live event in You said something at our live event in Dallas, which by the way, this September Dallas, which by the way, this September Dallas, which by the way, this September is coming to Nashville. Oh, awesome. is coming to Nashville. Oh, awesome. is coming to Nashville. Oh, awesome. >> Yeah, yeah. We're doing The Art of >> Yeah, yeah. We're doing The Art of >> Yeah, yeah. We're doing The Art of Leadership Live here in Nashville. So, Leadership Live here in Nashville. So, Leadership Live here in Nashville. So, you guys will have to come. you guys will have to come. you guys will have to come. >> Oh, yeah. Uh we're at Cannery Hall. You >> Oh, yeah. Uh we're at Cannery Hall. You >> Oh, yeah. Uh we're at Cannery Hall. You guys are familiar with that. guys are familiar with that. guys are familiar with that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Um but, we were at a live event in Um but, we were at a live event in Um but, we were at a live event in Dallas, you said generation has gone, if Dallas, you said generation has gone, if Dallas, you said generation has gone, if I've got this right, from despair to I've got this right, from despair to I've got this right, from despair to desperation. desperation. desperation. And that they've kind of seen what the And that they've kind of seen what the And that they've kind of seen what the culture has to offer. And they're like, culture has to offer. And they're like, culture has to offer. And they're like, you know, white knuckling it. Like, this you know, white knuckling it. Like, this you know, white knuckling it. Like, this can't be it. Can you explain what's can't be it. Can you explain what's can't be it. Can you explain what's behind that and what you're seeing? I behind that and what you're seeing? I behind that and what you're seeing? I mean, I think so social media, I think mean, I think so social media, I think mean, I think so social media, I think has allowed Gen Z to experience has allowed Gen Z to experience has allowed Gen Z to experience so much of what there is to experience so much of what there is to experience so much of what there is to experience at a rate so much faster than past at a rate so much faster than past at a rate so much faster than past generations. generations. generations. >> That's true. My generation had to wait. >> That's true. My generation had to wait. >> That's true. My generation had to wait. You don't know what it's like to be 30 You don't know what it's like to be 30 You don't know what it's like to be 30 till you're 30. Yes. You do. And I mean, till you're 30. Yes. You do. And I mean, till you're 30. Yes. You do. And I mean, I'm like from everything from like, if I'm like from everything from like, if I'm like from everything from like, if you wanted to like if you wanted to you wanted to like if you wanted to you wanted to like if you wanted to watch pornography or you wanted to see watch pornography or you wanted to see watch pornography or you wanted to see pornography, you had to go to a store, pornography, you had to go to a store, pornography, you had to go to a store, buy a magazine, like something.

buy a magazine, like something. buy a magazine, like something. >> It was terrifying work back then. >> It was terrifying work back then. >> It was terrifying work back then. >> effort. Right now, it's coming for you >> effort. Right now, it's coming for you >> effort. Right now, it's coming for you now. And so, like for a younger now. And so, like for a younger now. And so, like for a younger generation, it's like by the time generation, it's like by the time generation, it's like by the time they're 12, they're getting 8 years old, they're 12, they're getting 8 years old, they're 12, they're getting 8 years old, I think is what the average that most I think is what the average that most I think is what the average that most boys are exposed to that stuff. So, it's boys are exposed to that stuff. So, it's boys are exposed to that stuff. So, it's like the the speed at which they are like the the speed at which they are like the the speed at which they are exposed to what the world has to offer exposed to what the world has to offer exposed to what the world has to offer is so quickly accelerated. For our is so quickly accelerated. For our is so quickly accelerated. For our generation, I think it has caused the generation, I think it has caused the generation, I think it has caused the bottom to drop out so much faster to go, bottom to drop out so much faster to go, bottom to drop out so much faster to go, "This this is not working." Where maybe "This this is not working." Where maybe "This this is not working." Where maybe it took longer for like, "We've tried it took longer for like, "We've tried it took longer for like, "We've tried everything, you know, I'm going to I everything, you know, I'm going to I everything, you know, I'm going to I mean, you know, I I think of you know, mean, you know, I I think of you know, mean, you know, I I think of you know, friends that like are now Christians, friends that like are now Christians, friends that like are now Christians, but like, you know, in the '70s they're but like, you know, in the '70s they're but like, you know, in the '70s they're they were going, they were going, they were going, 'You know, I'm going to do my drug trip 'You know, I'm going to do my drug trip 'You know, I'm going to do my drug trip across Europe and like try to find the across Europe and like try to find the across Europe and like try to find the best high.' Or you know, stuff best high.' Or you know, stuff best high.' Or you know, stuff those, you know, where it's like that those, you know, where it's like that those, you know, where it's like that would take you, you know, would take you, you know, would take you, you know, a year to, you know, even do the trip or a year to, you know, even do the trip or a year to, you know, even do the trip or whatever. whatever. whatever. There's it's just acceleration of being There's it's just acceleration of being There's it's just acceleration of being able to experience what there is to able to experience what there is to able to experience what there is to offer. I think AI is only going to offer. I think AI is only going to offer. I think AI is only going to increase the speed um of increase the speed um of increase the speed um of uh you know, your girl you know, you can uh you know, your girl you know, you can uh you know, your girl you know, you can try a girlfriend on on AI, you know, all try a girlfriend on on AI, you know, all try a girlfriend on on AI, you know, all those different types of thing. It's those different types of thing. It's those different types of thing. It's only going to accelerate that. And so, only going to accelerate that. And so, only going to accelerate that. And so, the the the cuz the mental health crises within Gen cuz the mental health crises within Gen cuz the mental health crises within Gen Z are very real stats. At the same time Z are very real stats. At the same time Z are very real stats. At the same time they were seeing an increase in they were seeing an increase in they were seeing an increase in spiritual interest. They were you know, spiritual interest. They were you know, spiritual interest. They were you know, I think we're seeing beginning tremors I think we're seeing beginning tremors I think we're seeing beginning tremors of a revival and awakening across the of a revival and awakening across the of a revival and awakening across the West. The the the mental health crises West. The the the mental health crises West. The the the mental health crises are very real. And in that, are very real. And in that, are very real. And in that, it's it it has just been this this it's it it has just been this this it's it it has just been this this despair of like, "This is not working."

despair of like, "This is not working." despair of like, "This is not working." And then and then now the spiritual And then and then now the spiritual And then and then now the spiritual openness has led to the despair moving openness has led to the despair moving openness has led to the despair moving into desperation. I think that's where into desperation. I think that's where into desperation. I think that's where we're seeing the hunger for God. It's we're seeing the hunger for God. It's we're seeing the hunger for God. It's like, "This is not working and I can say like, "This is not working and I can say like, "This is not working and I can say from a pretty young age, like I've tried from a pretty young age, like I've tried from a pretty young age, like I've tried just about everything there is out there just about everything there is out there just about everything there is out there to try and it has not worked. And I'm to try and it has not worked. And I'm to try and it has not worked. And I'm desperate for something. Please, desperate for something. Please, desperate for something. Please, somebody help me." That quick access. somebody help me." That quick access. somebody help me." That quick access. And it's it's turning into desperation And it's it's turning into desperation And it's it's turning into desperation for God. for God. for God. Yeah, Daniel, when you look at your Yeah, Daniel, when you look at your Yeah, Daniel, when you look at your friends friends friends Luke hinted on very briefly about the Luke hinted on very briefly about the Luke hinted on very briefly about the mental health crisis. And every stat mental health crisis. And every stat mental health crisis. And every stat I've looked at in the church, outside of I've looked at in the church, outside of I've looked at in the church, outside of the church, is the younger you are, the the church, is the younger you are, the the church, is the younger you are, the more intense the mental health crisis more intense the mental health crisis more intense the mental health crisis is. You know, if you look at church is. You know, if you look at church is. You know, if you look at church leaders over 45 and church leaders under leaders over 45 and church leaders under leaders over 45 and church leaders under 45, 45, 45, it's it's disturbing how challenging it it's it's disturbing how challenging it it's it's disturbing how challenging it is to be under 45 and keep your mental is to be under 45 and keep your mental is to be under 45 and keep your mental health. How are you seeing that show up health. How are you seeing that show up health. How are you seeing that show up in the people you know and the people in in the people you know and the people in in the people you know and the people in your generation that you're hanging out your generation that you're hanging out your generation that you're hanging out with? with? with? >> Yeah, so we do high again, those high >> Yeah, so we do high again, those high >> Yeah, so we do high again, those high school gatherings, Wilco United.

school gatherings, Wilco United. school gatherings, Wilco United. And we have 23 different schools that'll And we have 23 different schools that'll And we have 23 different schools that'll gather [clears throat] after football gather [clears throat] after football gather [clears throat] after football games. And we'll give a call for games. And we'll give a call for games. And we'll give a call for suicide, depression. suicide, depression. suicide, depression. And the amount of hands that go up in And the amount of hands that go up in And the amount of hands that go up in the room are somewhere between like 35 the room are somewhere between like 35 the room are somewhere between like 35 to 40% of the room. Um we're talking to 40% of the room. Um we're talking to 40% of the room. Um we're talking 50% of the room is already believers, 50% of the room is already believers, 50% of the room is already believers, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But still. So right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But still. So right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But still. So >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. the amount of students that are the amount of students that are the amount of students that are struggling is just struggling is just struggling is just I mean, it's heart-wrenching. That's I mean, it's heart-wrenching. That's I mean, it's heart-wrenching. That's like like like you and the amount of students that you and the amount of students that you and the amount of students that genuinely are considering taking their genuinely are considering taking their genuinely are considering taking their lives is every day is more than you lives is every day is more than you lives is every day is more than you would even know and it's such a would even know and it's such a would even know and it's such a something that we really have to something that we really have to something that we really have to confront confront confront in a practical way and spiritual way. in a practical way and spiritual way. in a practical way and spiritual way. So um I mean I mean it's not good. No, I mean, I somebody it's not good. No, I mean, I somebody it's not good. No, I mean, I somebody said this this and I've read about it, said this this and I've read about it, said this this and I've read about it, but somebody just sort of but somebody just sort of but somebody just sort of mentioned this. It's like you haven't mentioned this. It's like you haven't mentioned this. It's like you haven't been in the high school into a high been in the high school into a high been in the high school into a high school in a long time and that's school in a long time and that's school in a long time and that's actually true.

actually true. actually true. But uh and we can cut this out if this But uh and we can cut this out if this But uh and we can cut this out if this doesn't go anywhere, but like litter doesn't go anywhere, but like litter doesn't go anywhere, but like litter boxes in high schools for people who boxes in high schools for people who boxes in high schools for people who identify as dogs. identify as dogs. identify as dogs. Is this a thing? Yeah, it's a thing. Is this a thing? Yeah, it's a thing. Is this a thing? Yeah, it's a thing. Uh-huh. What what's going on there? I Uh-huh. What what's going on there? I Uh-huh. What what's going on there? I don't know a lot about that, but I know don't know a lot about that, but I know don't know a lot about that, but I know it's there. Yeah, furries. it's there. Yeah, furries. it's there. Yeah, furries. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Furry, yeah. Yeah. >> Furry, yeah. Yeah. >> Furry, yeah. Yeah. I mean I mean I mean it's it's it's I I think that's part like you're seeing I I think that's part like you're seeing I I think that's part like you're seeing polarization in the the levels of like polarization in the the levels of like polarization in the the levels of like either either either there is no reality and nothing is true there is no reality and nothing is true there is no reality and nothing is true and I can or and I think that's part of and I can or and I think that's part of and I can or and I think that's part of why you're seeing people seeing that why you're seeing people seeing that why you're seeing people seeing that reality. Especially young men, which is reality. Especially young men, which is reality. Especially young men, which is why I think why I think why I think and and they're going and and they're going and and they're going >> simulation. >> simulation. >> simulation. >> back to the surge. >> back to the surge. >> back to the surge. To what? To what? To what? >> The surge of men going into Oh, yeah, >> The surge of men going into Oh, yeah, >> The surge of men going into Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah, yeah. yeah, yeah. >> Yeah, the church. Where it's like >> Yeah, the church. Where it's like >> Yeah, the church. Where it's like that can't be reality, but that feels that can't be reality, but that feels that can't be reality, but that feels like like like partially the only other option. partially the only other option. partially the only other option. >> than what I got right now going on in >> than what I got right now going on in >> than what I got right now going on in the suburbs or wherever you are. Cuz the suburbs or wherever you are. Cuz the suburbs or wherever you are. Cuz that's a real thing. I mean, it is a that's a real thing. I mean, it is a that's a real thing. I mean, it is a real thing and [clears throat] yeah. No, real thing and [clears throat] yeah. No, real thing and [clears throat] yeah. No, you know, it goes back to one of the you know, it goes back to one of the you know, it goes back to one of the conversations I had with Tim Keller conversations I had with Tim Keller conversations I had with Tim Keller before he died and it was before he died and it was before he died and it was hey, if you're starting over again in hey, if you're starting over again in hey, if you're starting over again in New York City, what would you talk about New York City, what would you talk about New York City, what would you talk about more? And he's like, oh, if I was just more? And he's like, oh, if I was just more? And he's like, oh, if I was just planning a church, I'd focus on planning a church, I'd focus on planning a church, I'd focus on identity.

identity. identity. So much is happening in terms of So much is happening in terms of So much is happening in terms of identity right now, whether that's And identity right now, whether that's And identity right now, whether that's And again, whether you're LGBTQ or whether again, whether you're LGBTQ or whether again, whether you're LGBTQ or whether you're straight you're straight you're straight you know, your straightness doesn't you know, your straightness doesn't you know, your straightness doesn't define who you are. Yeah. Right? It define who you are. Yeah. Right? It define who you are. Yeah. Right? It doesn't. Your your maleness doesn't doesn't. Your your maleness doesn't doesn't. Your your maleness doesn't fully define who you are. It's who we fully define who you are. It's who we fully define who you are. It's who we are in Christ, right? And and that's are in Christ, right? And and that's are in Christ, right? And and that's been lost. Um been lost. Um been lost. Um >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah, so when you think about this, on Yeah, so when you think about this, on Yeah, so when you think about this, on the one hand, you've got the one hand, you've got the one hand, you've got young Gen Z men coming into the church, young Gen Z men coming into the church, young Gen Z men coming into the church, reading the scripture, engaging their reading the scripture, engaging their reading the scripture, engaging their faith doing the hard things, finding faith doing the hard things, finding faith doing the hard things, finding hope, finding purpose and even out of hope, finding purpose and even out of hope, finding purpose and even out of the UK, there was a huge study. I didn't the UK, there was a huge study. I didn't the UK, there was a huge study. I didn't reference it in the church trends, but reference it in the church trends, but reference it in the church trends, but it was something like 13,000 it was something like 13,000 it was something like 13,000 people and you look at the well-being of people and you look at the well-being of people and you look at the well-being of men who are connected with the church, men who are connected with the church, men who are connected with the church, Gen Z men versus the well-being of men Gen Z men versus the well-being of men Gen Z men versus the well-being of men who are not connected with the church, who are not connected with the church, who are not connected with the church, it's off the charts difference. And then it's off the charts difference. And then it's off the charts difference. And then even do you feel alone? Cuz alone is even do you feel alone? Cuz alone is even do you feel alone? Cuz alone is huge. Like do you do you feel that your huge. Like do you do you feel that your huge. Like do you do you feel that your life matters to the people around you or life matters to the people around you or life matters to the people around you or something was the question? something was the question? something was the question? It was like pretty low if you don't go It was like pretty low if you don't go It was like pretty low if you don't go to church. It was I believe 68% if you to church. It was I believe 68% if you to church. It was I believe 68% if you did said yes, my life has significance did said yes, my life has significance did said yes, my life has significance to the people around me. Like it just to the people around me. Like it just to the people around me. Like it just it's such a big change. At the same time it's such a big change. At the same time it's such a big change. At the same time and again, I understand we have three and again, I understand we have three and again, I understand we have three men talking about this and we're going men talking about this and we're going men talking about this and we're going to do a whole episode to do a whole episode to do a whole episode on it with some female voices on why on it with some female voices on why on it with some female voices on why women are leaving the church. So that's women are leaving the church. So that's women are leaving the church. So that's coming up later in 2026, but any insight coming up later in 2026, but any insight coming up later in 2026, but any insight on that while these three guys are on that while these three guys are on that while these three guys are sitting around talking about church sitting around talking about church sitting around talking about church trends.

trends. trends. I don't have any. Do you? I don't have any. Do you? I don't have any. Do you? >> No, good. >> No, good. >> No, good. You know, theories. We've we've asked You know, theories. We've we've asked You know, theories. We've we've asked the question via email. the question via email. the question via email. Uh I've talked to some women leaders in Uh I've talked to some women leaders in Uh I've talked to some women leaders in the church. Couple of thoughts on that. the church. Couple of thoughts on that. the church. Couple of thoughts on that. One is that sometimes the One is that sometimes the One is that sometimes the um male culture in the church can turn um male culture in the church can turn um male culture in the church can turn to bro culture in the church. to bro culture in the church. to bro culture in the church. You know, um another is You know, um another is You know, um another is not all churches, but some churches have not all churches, but some churches have not all churches, but some churches have really taken a hard ideological really taken a hard ideological really taken a hard ideological political line that's very right-wing. political line that's very right-wing. political line that's very right-wing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Women are not in sync Yeah, yeah, yeah. Women are not in sync Yeah, yeah, yeah. Women are not in sync with that message and so they're like, with that message and so they're like, with that message and so they're like, well, if this is just a political action well, if this is just a political action well, if this is just a political action committee Mhm. I'm going to tap out. committee Mhm. I'm going to tap out. committee Mhm. I'm going to tap out. Yeah. Another would be and you know, Yeah. Another would be and you know, Yeah. Another would be and you know, Katie Cole is a great voice on this Katie Cole is a great voice on this Katie Cole is a great voice on this because she talks to egalitarian because she talks to egalitarian because she talks to egalitarian churches and complementary tarian churches and complementary tarian churches and complementary tarian churches and churches and churches and >> does a very good job straddling that >> does a very good job straddling that >> does a very good job straddling that line brilliantly. I don't know how she line brilliantly. I don't know how she line brilliantly. I don't know how she does it. But you know, that whole does it. But you know, that whole does it. But you know, that whole business about women have business about women have business about women have um all kinds of opportunity um all kinds of opportunity um all kinds of opportunity in the marketplace that they don't have in the marketplace that they don't have in the marketplace that they don't have in the church. And if you think about in the church. And if you think about in the church. And if you think about this, this is this is my little this, this is this is my little this, this is this is my little contribution to it.

contribution to it. contribution to it. Uh and this is a challenge for pastors Uh and this is a challenge for pastors Uh and this is a challenge for pastors cuz you guys kind of fit into this too. cuz you guys kind of fit into this too. cuz you guys kind of fit into this too. Um Um Um if you look at the next generation, like if you look at the next generation, like if you look at the next generation, like certainly my generation of influencers certainly my generation of influencers certainly my generation of influencers you know, a lot of them had like you you you know, a lot of them had like you you you know, a lot of them had like you you get a Dallas Willard, obviously my dad's get a Dallas Willard, obviously my dad's get a Dallas Willard, obviously my dad's age Charles Stanley, no longer with us age Charles Stanley, no longer with us age Charles Stanley, no longer with us Tim Keller, they were all church-based. Tim Keller, they were all church-based. Tim Keller, they were all church-based. But they were also a generation of But they were also a generation of But they were also a generation of people who are not church-based. You people who are not church-based. You people who are not church-based. You think of you know Ann Voskamp Lisa think of you know Ann Voskamp Lisa think of you know Ann Voskamp Lisa TerKeurst Beth Moore, definitely TerKeurst Beth Moore, definitely TerKeurst Beth Moore, definitely connected with a local church connected with a local church connected with a local church >> Yeah. but not out of a pulpit Yeah. And >> Yeah. but not out of a pulpit Yeah. And >> Yeah. but not out of a pulpit Yeah. And you know, sometimes when I talk to you know, sometimes when I talk to you know, sometimes when I talk to leaders of my generation who are women, leaders of my generation who are women, leaders of my generation who are women, it's like, yeah, cuz we didn't let you it's like, yeah, cuz we didn't let you it's like, yeah, cuz we didn't let you in the church, you had to go outside the in the church, you had to go outside the in the church, you had to go outside the church. And you might say, well, we're church. And you might say, well, we're church. And you might say, well, we're past that now. No. You look at a lot of past that now. No. You look at a lot of past that now. No. You look at a lot of Gen Z and younger millennial influencers Gen Z and younger millennial influencers Gen Z and younger millennial influencers they're not primarily anchored into a they're not primarily anchored into a they're not primarily anchored into a pulpit. Yeah. They're on YouTube. pulpit. Yeah. They're on YouTube. pulpit. Yeah. They're on YouTube. They're on social media. They have their They're on social media. They have their They're on social media. They have their own brands. They have their own own brands. They have their own own brands. They have their own websites. They have their own books.

websites. They have their own books. websites. They have their own books. They have their own platforms and They have their own platforms and They have their own platforms and so much of that even with guys like so much of that even with guys like so much of that even with guys like Bryce Crawford or Ruslan KD Bryce Crawford or Ruslan KD Bryce Crawford or Ruslan KD um they might be connected with a um they might be connected with a um they might be connected with a church, but their their primary audience church, but their their primary audience church, but their their primary audience is direct to camera. is direct to camera. is direct to camera. And you see that in your generation, And you see that in your generation, And you see that in your generation, too. Yeah. So maybe we can talk about too. Yeah. So maybe we can talk about too. Yeah. So maybe we can talk about that. Yeah. that. Yeah. that. Yeah. Why? Why? Why? Women, you could argue it's because Women, you could argue it's because Women, you could argue it's because there's still no place in the church in there's still no place in the church in there's still no place in the church in many places. But even for men, they're many places. But even for men, they're many places. But even for men, they're they're skipping out and going straight they're skipping out and going straight they're skipping out and going straight to the camera straight to the church. to the camera straight to the church. to the camera straight to the church. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that's part of the effect Well, I think that's part of the effect Well, I think that's part of the effect of media, right? Social media. It's just of media, right? Social media. It's just of media, right? Social media. It's just like right now there's a time like right now there's a time like right now there's a time where the main voices in the church were where the main voices in the church were where the main voices in the church were in the church. Mhm. And now because of in the church. Mhm. And now because of in the church. Mhm. And now because of media media media there's a lot of people and some good there's a lot of people and some good there's a lot of people and some good people that are contributing to the people that are contributing to the people that are contributing to the body, you know. body, you know. body, you know. But it's the power of social media and But it's the power of social media and But it's the power of social media and that's where again, it's coming back to that's where again, it's coming back to that's where again, it's coming back to you know, being able to discern what's you know, being able to discern what's you know, being able to discern what's true and what's not and you have the true and what's not and you have the true and what's not and you have the kind of some of those kind of some of those kind of some of those it kind of opens up that conversation it kind of opens up that conversation it kind of opens up that conversation again, but um again, but um again, but um and we I was talking to someone the and we I was talking to someone the and we I was talking to someone the other night, um Grant Skeldon about that other night, um Grant Skeldon about that other night, um Grant Skeldon about that and we were talking about and we were talking about and we were talking about how we're living in such interesting day how we're living in such interesting day how we're living in such interesting day in the body of Christ because in the body of Christ because in the body of Christ because there's so many people that aren't there's so many people that aren't there's so many people that aren't active members and roles in a local active members and roles in a local active members and roles in a local church, but they're major voices in the church, but they're major voices in the church, but they're major voices in the body of Christ through social media. So body of Christ through social media. So body of Christ through social media. So it's kind of a different it's kind of a different it's kind of a different different day. Yeah, and some of those different day. Yeah, and some of those different day. Yeah, and some of those people maybe, I don't want to name people maybe, I don't want to name people maybe, I don't want to name names, but maybe tapped out of church,

names, but maybe tapped out of church, names, but maybe tapped out of church, but a lot of you guys haven't. Yeah. but a lot of you guys haven't. Yeah. but a lot of you guys haven't. Yeah. You're like I met your pastor this You're like I met your pastor this You're like I met your pastor this morning when you were out for breakfast morning when you were out for breakfast morning when you were out for breakfast with him, right? You're deeply connected with him, right? You're deeply connected with him, right? You're deeply connected in the local church. So I guess my in the local church. So I guess my in the local church. So I guess my question cuz you got a lot of church question cuz you got a lot of church question cuz you got a lot of church like pastors around the world, but in like pastors around the world, but in like pastors around the world, but in America watching, listening. America watching, listening. America watching, listening. If I'm a local pastor, how do I make If I'm a local pastor, how do I make If I'm a local pastor, how do I make room for you? Let's say you've got a room for you? Let's say you've got a room for you? Let's say you've got a social media platform. Let's say you're social media platform. Let's say you're social media platform. Let's say you're big on YouTube. Let's say you've written big on YouTube. Let's say you've written big on YouTube. Let's say you've written books, you know. books, you know. books, you know. What what does it look like for you to What what does it look like for you to What what does it look like for you to engage your gifting Mhm. at the local engage your gifting Mhm. at the local engage your gifting Mhm. at the local church cuz I think I know you guys well church cuz I think I know you guys well church cuz I think I know you guys well enough that I'm like, hey, can you do enough that I'm like, hey, can you do enough that I'm like, hey, can you do traffic like parking? You'd be like, traffic like parking? You'd be like, traffic like parking? You'd be like, sure. sure. sure. But that's not really leaning into your But that's not really leaning into your But that's not really leaning into your gifts, right? gifts, right? gifts, right? >> 100%. >> 100%. >> 100%. >> And often what we do is if we find we >> And often what we do is if we find we >> And often what we do is if we find we have have have you know, a a social media influencer in you know, a a social media influencer in you know, a a social media influencer in our church, it's like, great, can you our church, it's like, great, can you our church, it's like, great, can you run the soundboard? run the soundboard? run the soundboard? Excellent. Can you do ProPresenter on Excellent. Can you do ProPresenter on Excellent. Can you do ProPresenter on Sunday? Just like advance the slides, Sunday? Just like advance the slides, Sunday? Just like advance the slides, right? Which is exactly I I see your right? Which is exactly I I see your right? Which is exactly I I see your face, Luke. You're like, yeah, don't face, Luke. You're like, yeah, don't face, Luke. You're like, yeah, don't don't we'll do it, but come on.

don't we'll do it, but come on. don't we'll do it, but come on. Like if you're going to really lean in Like if you're going to really lean in Like if you're going to really lean in and I've had this conversation with and I've had this conversation with and I've had this conversation with Patrick Lencioni. Yeah. Yeah. Patrick Lencioni. Yeah. Yeah. Patrick Lencioni. Yeah. Yeah. >> You know, he's like they they want me to >> You know, he's like they they want me to >> You know, he's like they they want me to hand out programs. He the first time I hand out programs. He the first time I hand out programs. He the first time I met Pat, he's whiteboarding how to met Pat, he's whiteboarding how to met Pat, he's whiteboarding how to reform the Vatican and the priesthood reform the Vatican and the priesthood reform the Vatican and the priesthood Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> in his office to me and I'm like, I'm >> in his office to me and I'm like, I'm >> in his office to me and I'm like, I'm not even Roman Catholic, right? But not even Roman Catholic, right? But not even Roman Catholic, right? But nobody nobody's asking him [laughter] nobody nobody's asking him [laughter] nobody nobody's asking him [laughter] for that kind of advice. for that kind of advice. for that kind of advice. >> Yeah, totally. So if you guys are going >> Yeah, totally. So if you guys are going >> Yeah, totally. So if you guys are going to plug into a local church, what is a to plug into a local church, what is a to plug into a local church, what is a good use of your gifting, your talent, good use of your gifting, your talent, good use of your gifting, your talent, your skill set and how God has wired your skill set and how God has wired your skill set and how God has wired you? Okay, I actually love that question you? Okay, I actually love that question you? Okay, I actually love that question because because because um some of my friends have expressed um some of my friends have expressed um some of my friends have expressed this that are social media influencers this that are social media influencers this that are social media influencers or have major platforms or have major platforms or have major platforms some even like a million plus followers some even like a million plus followers some even like a million plus followers >> Exactly. and they're at a local church >> Exactly. and they're at a local church >> Exactly. and they're at a local church they're at a local church and even they're at a local church and even they're at a local church and even they are trying to get plugged into the they are trying to get plugged into the they are trying to get plugged into the local church. They're doing their best. local church. They're doing their best. local church. They're doing their best. They're trying to serve. They're trying to serve. They're trying to serve. But and he one of them was even telling But and he one of them was even telling But and he one of them was even telling me about like his wife and amazing me about like his wife and amazing me about like his wife and amazing um communicator Yeah. and was like she um communicator Yeah. and was like she um communicator Yeah. and was like she just wants to use her gift and I think just wants to use her gift and I think just wants to use her gift and I think they're too scared to ask her because they're too scared to ask her because they're too scared to ask her because they don't want to like Oh, so there's they don't want to like Oh, so there's they don't want to like Oh, so there's like an intimidation.

like an intimidation. like an intimidation. >> intimidated. We don't want her to like >> intimidated. We don't want her to like >> intimidated. We don't want her to like feel used, but it's not that she feels feel used, but it's not that she feels feel used, but it's not that she feels used. It's just that she actually wants used. It's just that she actually wants used. It's just that she actually wants to use her gifts. Like and so she's she to use her gifts. Like and so she's she to use her gifts. Like and so she's she actually would love to serve in that actually would love to serve in that actually would love to serve in that way. And so I think there is an way. And so I think there is an way. And so I think there is an invitation that maybe for those pastors invitation that maybe for those pastors invitation that maybe for those pastors that are out there that maybe you just that are out there that maybe you just that are out there that maybe you just have an honest open conversation that have an honest open conversation that have an honest open conversation that you don't want to use them, but you want you don't want to use them, but you want you don't want to use them, but you want to welcome them if they want to use to welcome them if they want to use to welcome them if they want to use their gift in the local church because I their gift in the local church because I their gift in the local church because I think there's a lot of leaders out there think there's a lot of leaders out there think there's a lot of leaders out there and then they feel, you know, just kind and then they feel, you know, just kind and then they feel, you know, just kind of like that's what they're built and of like that's what they're built and of like that's what they're built and meant to do at their highest capacity. meant to do at their highest capacity. meant to do at their highest capacity. >> Taylor Swift, do you want to wear >> Taylor Swift, do you want to wear >> Taylor Swift, do you want to wear sunglasses and a hat and sit in the back sunglasses and a hat and sit in the back sunglasses and a hat and sit in the back row row row >> Yeah. and sneak in and sneak out, >> Yeah. and sneak in and sneak out, >> Yeah. and sneak in and sneak out, totally get it. On the other hand, if totally get it. On the other hand, if totally get it. On the other hand, if you want but I'm blown away. Go ahead. you want but I'm blown away. Go ahead. you want but I'm blown away. Go ahead. Well, I think some pastors are just Well, I think some pastors are just Well, I think some pastors are just trying trying trying to be honest, I think they're trying to to be honest, I think they're trying to to be honest, I think they're trying to protect um protect um protect um keeping their those type of people keeping their those type of people keeping their those type of people coming sometimes even to their church. coming sometimes even to their church. coming sometimes even to their church. Does that make sense? So they won't ask Does that make sense? So they won't ask Does that make sense? So they won't ask them and just try to play the friend them and just try to play the friend them and just try to play the friend role, which is okay. It's good. You want role, which is okay. It's good. You want role, which is okay. It's good. You want to be friends.

to be friends. to be friends. >> they don't want that. >> they don't want that. >> they don't want that. >> Yeah, maybe they don't want that. Maybe >> Yeah, maybe they don't want that. Maybe >> Yeah, maybe they don't want that. Maybe they actually want to serve and get they actually want to serve and get they actually want to serve and get their hands dirty and teach and lead a their hands dirty and teach and lead a their hands dirty and teach and lead a small group and preach on a Sunday. I small group and preach on a Sunday. I small group and preach on a Sunday. I don't know. Like I'm just saying like don't know. Like I'm just saying like don't know. Like I'm just saying like maybe there's uh maybe there's uh maybe there's uh it it le it if if anything that only it it le it if if anything that only it it le it if if anything that only continues to keep those people outside continues to keep those people outside continues to keep those people outside of the church. of the church. of the church. And we have to begin to invite them in And we have to begin to invite them in And we have to begin to invite them in deeper. deeper. deeper. >> a I think there's a shadow side of it >> a I think there's a shadow side of it >> a I think there's a shadow side of it though though though where I think for where I think for where I think for a lot of pastors there's a question of a lot of pastors there's a question of a lot of pastors there's a question of like will you submit to church authority like will you submit to church authority like will you submit to church authority though? Because because the thing about though? Because because the thing about though? Because because the thing about social media is it has offered a social media is it has offered a social media is it has offered a platform to people without any spiritual platform to people without any spiritual platform to people without any spiritual covering or authority. covering or authority. covering or authority. And I think that's a big shadow side of And I think that's a big shadow side of And I think that's a big shadow side of um um um are you being discipled? Are you are you being discipled? Are you are you being discipled? Are you covered? Like how many things are you covered? Like how many things are you covered? Like how many things are you running past like the multitude of running past like the multitude of running past like the multitude of counsel that you're doing, saying? Like counsel that you're doing, saying? Like counsel that you're doing, saying? Like how many people have any type of window how many people have any type of window how many people have any type of window I mean I'm constantly trying to ask I mean I'm constantly trying to ask I mean I'm constantly trying to ask people in my life and I think sometimes people in my life and I think sometimes people in my life and I think sometimes leaders in my life like laugh at me, but leaders in my life like laugh at me, but leaders in my life like laugh at me, but I I'm constantly going you have an open I I'm constantly going you have an open I I'm constantly going you have an open window to rebuke me at any time. Like window to rebuke me at any time. Like window to rebuke me at any time. Like please, you see something that I've please, you see something that I've please, you see something that I've posted on social media that that you posted on social media that that you posted on social media that that you don't think is theologically correct or don't think is theologically correct or don't think is theologically correct or that you think might be unhelpful to that you think might be unhelpful to that you think might be unhelpful to people, please tell me. Like I can only people, please tell me. Like I can only people, please tell me. Like I can only be so self-aware. Please tell me.

be so self-aware. Please tell me. be so self-aware. Please tell me. And I think and so there's a question And I think and so there's a question And I think and so there's a question though of cuz I have seen this and it though of cuz I have seen this and it though of cuz I have seen this and it makes me cringe. Like it's just it it makes me cringe. Like it's just it it makes me cringe. Like it's just it it just feels just feels just feels like unclean in my gut like when I see like unclean in my gut like when I see like unclean in my gut like when I see there's certain social media like people there's certain social media like people there's certain social media like people that I follow and friends that are like that I follow and friends that are like that I follow and friends that are like oh, they won't give you a platform. I'm oh, they won't give you a platform. I'm oh, they won't give you a platform. I'm going to preach. I'm going to preach going to preach. I'm going to preach going to preach. I'm going to preach here. Like if you won't let me into the here. Like if you won't let me into the here. Like if you won't let me into the church like I'm going to you know, church like I'm going to you know, church like I'm going to you know, preach here. And it's like that's not preach here. And it's like that's not preach here. And it's like that's not it. Like that's not God's design it. Like that's not God's design it. Like that's not God's design >> and way. He he he's he will resist you. >> and way. He he he's he will resist you. >> and way. He he he's he will resist you. Like God resists the Like God resists the Like God resists the >> to be one under authority. You have to >> to be one under authority. You have to >> to be one under authority. You have to be under authority to have authority. be under authority to have authority. be under authority to have authority. everyone. everyone. everyone. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Okay, you have to be one under authority >> Okay, you have to be one under authority >> Okay, you have to be one under authority to have authority. to have authority. to have authority. >> says. Uh yeah. Yeah. So you know, but >> says. Uh yeah. Yeah. So you know, but >> says. Uh yeah. Yeah. So you know, but you think about it. Like you've got a you think about it. Like you've got a you think about it. Like you've got a newsletter with lots of subscribers. I'm newsletter with lots of subscribers. I'm newsletter with lots of subscribers. I'm a subscriber consecrated. It's great. a subscriber consecrated. It's great. a subscriber consecrated. It's great. Thanks, Greg. It's really great. But the Thanks, Greg. It's really great. But the Thanks, Greg. It's really great. But the other thing you mentioned, you know, other thing you mentioned, you know, other thing you mentioned, you know, your generation's been exposed to so your generation's been exposed to so your generation's been exposed to so much at a very young age. Like you name much at a very young age. Like you name much at a very young age. Like you name it, you can find it. And AI's only going it, you can find it. And AI's only going it, you can find it. And AI's only going to intensify it. But you're also doing a to intensify it. But you're also doing a to intensify it. But you're also doing a lot more. Like you you know, a lot of lot more. Like you you know, a lot of lot more. Like you you know, a lot of people who are older, it's like people who are older, it's like people who are older, it's like how do I use this camera? How does this how do I use this camera? How does this how do I use this camera? How does this work? Like you know, it's like you guys work? Like you know, it's like you guys work? Like you know, it's like you guys are like I got it, you know. You got to are like I got it, you know. You got to are like I got it, you know. You got to figure it out.

figure it out. figure it out. And and you also realize, you know, Seth And and you also realize, you know, Seth And and you also realize, you know, Seth Seth Godin says pick yourself, right? If Seth Godin says pick yourself, right? If Seth Godin says pick yourself, right? If you're waiting to be picked you're waiting to be picked you're waiting to be picked pick yourself. And you've done that. pick yourself. And you've done that. pick yourself. And you've done that. You're like, yeah, I'll start a YouTube You're like, yeah, I'll start a YouTube You're like, yeah, I'll start a YouTube channel. I'll I'll go on TikTok. I'll channel. I'll I'll go on TikTok. I'll channel. I'll I'll go on TikTok. I'll write a newsletter. I will create a write a newsletter. I will create a write a newsletter. I will create a website, you know, and not I mean website, you know, and not I mean website, you know, and not I mean sometimes that's ego-driven, but often sometimes that's ego-driven, but often sometimes that's ego-driven, but often that's just a response to a calling and that's just a response to a calling and that's just a response to a calling and an opportunity that you see. an opportunity that you see. an opportunity that you see. And I wonder if And I wonder if And I wonder if you know, I sat in the senior pastor you know, I sat in the senior pastor you know, I sat in the senior pastor seat for 20 years. seat for 20 years. seat for 20 years. We have to get better at finding We have to get better at finding We have to get better at finding categories for people like you. categories for people like you. categories for people like you. It's like, yeah, it's not always going It's like, yeah, it's not always going It's like, yeah, it's not always going to be you're handing out programs on to be you're handing out programs on to be you're handing out programs on Sunday or running ProPresenter or Sunday or running ProPresenter or Sunday or running ProPresenter or playing a guitar or playing a guitar or playing a guitar or whatever. Like one of my favorite things whatever. Like one of my favorite things whatever. Like one of my favorite things to do, and I think I can say this and to do, and I think I can say this and to do, and I think I can say this and these days it's as a volunteer, these days it's as a volunteer, these days it's as a volunteer, but every other week I get to coach my but every other week I get to coach my but every other week I get to coach my senior pastor, the guy who took care of senior pastor, the guy who took care of senior pastor, the guy who took care of me at his invitation. And I fire myself me at his invitation. And I fire myself me at his invitation. And I fire myself at the end of every year and then he at the end of every year and then he at the end of every year and then he decides whether to rehire me decides whether to rehire me decides whether to rehire me or rehire me as a volunteer or not. But or rehire me as a volunteer or not. But or rehire me as a volunteer or not. But like that's an area where I feel like like that's an area where I feel like like that's an area where I feel like I'm contributing I'm contributing I'm contributing at a level where I can contribute at a level where I can contribute at a level where I can contribute because we'll spend an hour and a half because we'll spend an hour and a half because we'll spend an hour and a half together every two weeks.

together every two weeks. together every two weeks. And it's his agenda. I'm like, okay. I'm And it's his agenda. I'm like, okay. I'm And it's his agenda. I'm like, okay. I'm doing what I was created to do. Will I doing what I was created to do. Will I doing what I was created to do. Will I will I stuff envelopes? Yeah, I'll stuff will I stuff envelopes? Yeah, I'll stuff will I stuff envelopes? Yeah, I'll stuff envelopes. Will I will I yeah, but I'm envelopes. Will I will I yeah, but I'm envelopes. Will I will I yeah, but I'm not in town a whole lot and you know, not in town a whole lot and you know, not in town a whole lot and you know, all this stuff. So all this stuff. So all this stuff. So if you're to think of slots that are not if you're to think of slots that are not if you're to think of slots that are not slots to be filled cuz you know the slots to be filled cuz you know the slots to be filled cuz you know the slots to be filled. slots to be filled. slots to be filled. Small group leader. And my wife and I do Small group leader. And my wife and I do Small group leader. And my wife and I do lead a small group. We help with that. lead a small group. We help with that. lead a small group. We help with that. But if you were thinking of creative But if you were thinking of creative But if you were thinking of creative ways that ways that ways that pastors pastors pastors could use gifts like you have, what could use gifts like you have, what could use gifts like you have, what would you say hands up for that? I would would you say hands up for that? I would would you say hands up for that? I would I'm down for that. What would you want I'm down for that. What would you want I'm down for that. What would you want them to ask you to do? them to ask you to do? them to ask you to do? I mean for me the things I think about I mean for me the things I think about I mean for me the things I think about one I would say like I serve in kids one I would say like I serve in kids one I would say like I serve in kids ministry. Like when I'm not traveling ministry. Like when I'm not traveling ministry. Like when I'm not traveling like I'll serve in kids. Like I think if like I'll serve in kids. Like I think if like I'll serve in kids. Like I think if you're not willing if you're not yeah, you're not willing if you're not yeah, you're not willing if you're not yeah, if you're not willing to do that, I if you're not willing to do that, I if you're not willing to do that, I think there's a problem. And I think think there's a problem. And I think think there's a problem. And I think that's a different if you're not willing that's a different if you're not willing that's a different if you're not willing to stack chairs, to stack chairs, to stack chairs, you have a problem. If you're not you have a problem. If you're not you have a problem. If you're not willing to move traffic cones, willing to move traffic cones, willing to move traffic cones, you have a problem. 100%. But it's not you have a problem. 100%. But it's not you have a problem. 100%. But it's not the highest use of your gifting. Yeah, I the highest use of your gifting. Yeah, I the highest use of your gifting. Yeah, I mean I think about all the time. I'm mean I think about all the time. I'm mean I think about all the time. I'm like like I see our our sermons on like like I see our our sermons on like like I see our our sermons on Sunday mornings and I go, man, I could Sunday mornings and I go, man, I could Sunday mornings and I go, man, I could help us reach a lot more people. Like I help us reach a lot more people. Like I help us reach a lot more people. Like I could I could help like I could help you could I could help like I could help you could I could help like I could help you even if it's just like I see the way we even if it's just like I see the way we even if it's just like I see the way we post stuff on socials. And I'm like I post stuff on socials. And I'm like I post stuff on socials. And I'm like I could help you know how to clip it. Like could help you know how to clip it. Like could help you know how to clip it. Like help you know how to in like help you know how to in like help you know how to in like [clears throat] retain [clears throat] retain [clears throat] retain people eyeballs watching the actual people eyeballs watching the actual people eyeballs watching the actual sermon clip cuz like if you're going to sermon clip cuz like if you're going to sermon clip cuz like if you're going to do it like let's do it, you know, or do it like let's do it, you know, or do it like let's do it, you know, or um um um just I think those are the things I'm just I think those are the things I'm just I think those are the things I'm thinking about like in a in a service I thinking about like in a in a service I thinking about like in a in a service I see our social media stuff or

see our social media stuff or see our social media stuff or um um um it those are things that immediately it those are things that immediately it those are things that immediately come to mind of like come to mind of like come to mind of like I would love to come in and just do like I would love to come in and just do like I would love to come in and just do like let's let's whiteboard this out. Like let's let's whiteboard this out. Like let's let's whiteboard this out. Like let's figure out a way to engage more let's figure out a way to engage more let's figure out a way to engage more people in our community through online people in our community through online people in our community through online or or or let's um figure out with like one thing let's um figure out with like one thing let's um figure out with like one thing that you know, we started doing as a that you know, we started doing as a that you know, we started doing as a local church that I've been like we've local church that I've been like we've local church that I've been like we've got to do this. Like please we've got to got to do this. Like please we've got to got to do this. Like please we've got to do this and we we started doing it is do this and we we started doing it is do this and we we started doing it is I'm like, look, 75% of Gen Zers or it's I'm like, look, 75% of Gen Zers or it's I'm like, look, 75% of Gen Zers or it's it's somewhere above 70. You probably it's somewhere above 70. You probably it's somewhere above 70. You probably might know the statistic better than me, might know the statistic better than me, might know the statistic better than me, but say they would come to church if but say they would come to church if but say they would come to church if somebody asked them. Yeah, it's about somebody asked them. Yeah, it's about somebody asked them. Yeah, it's about 80%. Isn't that insane? That's 80%. Isn't that insane? That's 80%. Isn't that insane? That's mind-blowing. mind-blowing. mind-blowing. Mind-blowing. Mind-blowing. Mind-blowing. And so I'm like And so I'm like And so I'm like look, I know I know as a discipleship look, I know I know as a discipleship look, I know I know as a discipleship aspect we're trying to get people to aspect we're trying to get people to aspect we're trying to get people to share their faith individually. I'm like share their faith individually. I'm like share their faith individually. I'm like but the gateway drug to that is getting but the gateway drug to that is getting but the gateway drug to that is getting them to just invite somebody to church. them to just invite somebody to church. them to just invite somebody to church. So like so I'm going if you can mobilize So like so I'm going if you can mobilize So like so I'm going if you can mobilize your Gen Zers just your church to invite your Gen Zers just your church to invite your Gen Zers just your church to invite people to church and then just preach people to church and then just preach people to church and then just preach the gospel on a Sunday, I'm like the gospel on a Sunday, I'm like the gospel on a Sunday, I'm like you'll immediately start seeing people you'll immediately start seeing people you'll immediately start seeing people come to Christ. Like if you can have a come to Christ. Like if you can have a come to Christ. Like if you can have a clear gospel presentation. So once a clear gospel presentation. So once a clear gospel presentation. So once a month we've started doing month we've started doing month we've started doing a service where we are mobilizing the a service where we are mobilizing the a service where we are mobilizing the church to invite their friends, their church to invite their friends, their church to invite their friends, their neighbors, their co-workers to come and neighbors, their co-workers to come and neighbors, their co-workers to come and visit and it's a service designed around visit and it's a service designed around visit and it's a service designed around we're going to share the gospel at the we're going to share the gospel at the we're going to share the gospel at the end of the service. It's going to be a end of the service. It's going to be a end of the service. It's going to be a gospel focused you know, message. People gospel focused you know, message. People gospel focused you know, message. People are coming to Christ every single one of are coming to Christ every single one of are coming to Christ every single one of those times. So I'm like those times. So I'm like those times. So I'm like get us in a room get us in a room get us in a room you know, sign me up. Like I will ideate

you know, sign me up. Like I will ideate you know, sign me up. Like I will ideate on that with you all day long. Those on that with you all day long. Those on that with you all day long. Those types of things. Daniel, how about you? types of things. Daniel, how about you? types of things. Daniel, how about you? If if If if If if church pastor was to say we want to use church pastor was to say we want to use church pastor was to say we want to use your gifting, what would that your gifting, what would that your gifting, what would that Uh I would think first thing is I'm Uh I would think first thing is I'm Uh I would think first thing is I'm I have such a heart for the evangelist. I have such a heart for the evangelist. I have such a heart for the evangelist. So I think that there's a lot of So I think that there's a lot of So I think that there's a lot of evangelists evangelists evangelists um that you'll see end up on the streets um that you'll see end up on the streets um that you'll see end up on the streets by themselves doing their own thing by themselves doing their own thing by themselves doing their own thing because the church hasn't made a place because the church hasn't made a place because the church hasn't made a place for them for them for them to engage in evangelism, equip in to engage in evangelism, equip in to engage in evangelism, equip in evangelism. And then they kind of become evangelism. And then they kind of become evangelism. And then they kind of become a little bit weird. a little bit weird. a little bit weird. And you kind of And you kind of And you kind of and I just think there's such a place in and I just think there's such a place in and I just think there's such a place in the church for equipping, training, uh the church for equipping, training, uh the church for equipping, training, uh mobilizing, discipling in evangelism. mobilizing, discipling in evangelism. mobilizing, discipling in evangelism. And the Bible talks about how uh And the Bible talks about how uh And the Bible talks about how uh the evangelist is to equip the saints to the evangelist is to equip the saints to the evangelist is to equip the saints to do the work of the ministry. do the work of the ministry. do the work of the ministry. And like the evange doesn't even say the And like the evange doesn't even say the And like the evange doesn't even say the evangelist is to go and preach the evangelist is to go and preach the evangelist is to go and preach the gospel. It says to equip the saints to gospel. It says to equip the saints to gospel. It says to equip the saints to do the work of the ministry. And so um I do the work of the ministry. And so um I do the work of the ministry. And so um I first think if my gifting was I guess first think if my gifting was I guess first think if my gifting was I guess honored or received in a church setting, honored or received in a church setting, honored or received in a church setting, which my home church it definitely is.

which my home church it definitely is. which my home church it definitely is. But it's the whole purpose is to But it's the whole purpose is to But it's the whole purpose is to actually invite the evangelist in to actually invite the evangelist in to actually invite the evangelist in to come and train your church on how to come and train your church on how to come and train your church on how to actually engage in missions, engage in actually engage in missions, engage in actually engage in missions, engage in the gospel and actually disciple people the gospel and actually disciple people the gospel and actually disciple people into that. And I think we need to even into that. And I think we need to even into that. And I think we need to even look at the uh of look at the uh of look at the uh of evangelism evangelism evangelism is a form of discipleship for the is a form of discipleship for the is a form of discipleship for the evangelist. It's like to disciple people evangelist. It's like to disciple people evangelist. It's like to disciple people on how to engage, how to preach the on how to engage, how to preach the on how to engage, how to preach the gospel. And then the other thing I would gospel. And then the other thing I would gospel. And then the other thing I would say say say is there might be someone in your is there might be someone in your is there might be someone in your church, but specifically for me is like church, but specifically for me is like church, but specifically for me is like really good at engaging and reaching the really good at engaging and reaching the really good at engaging and reaching the next generation. So there might be next generation. So there might be next generation. So there might be someone your your church might be going someone your your church might be going someone your your church might be going like I don't know how or how we can like I don't know how or how we can like I don't know how or how we can actually engage or reach um rethinking actually engage or reach um rethinking actually engage or reach um rethinking strategies on how to reach the next strategies on how to reach the next strategies on how to reach the next generation. We have that um generation. We have that um generation. We have that um the invitational church method, which is the invitational church method, which is the invitational church method, which is to um to um to um invite people to church, come on a invite people to church, come on a invite people to church, come on a Sunday. And then I like to call it the Sunday. And then I like to call it the Sunday. And then I like to call it the incarnational method. Jesus incarnational method. Jesus incarnational method. Jesus friend of sinners, we go to them, find friend of sinners, we go to them, find friend of sinners, we go to them, find them, sit with them. And that's how we them, sit with them. And that's how we them, sit with them. And that's how we reach people. So it's like we want to reach people. So it's like we want to reach people. So it's like we want to reach a new generation. We want them to reach a new generation. We want them to reach a new generation. We want them to come to our youth group, we got to go come to our youth group, we got to go come to our youth group, we got to go where they are. Like any good fisherman where they are. Like any good fisherman where they are. Like any good fisherman is going to go where the fish are, is going to go where the fish are, is going to go where the fish are, right?

right? right? >> Kind of like maybe a rave or something >> Kind of like maybe a rave or something >> Kind of like maybe a rave or something like that. like that. like that. >> a rave or actually go to the high >> a rave or actually go to the high >> a rave or actually go to the high schools. Like how that's what I ask like schools. Like how that's what I ask like schools. Like how that's what I ask like youth leaders. Like how do you getting youth leaders. Like how do you getting youth leaders. Like how do you getting people like are you in the schools? And people like are you in the schools? And people like are you in the schools? And if you're not in the schools, do you if you're not in the schools, do you if you're not in the schools, do you have young people that are in the have young people that are in the have young people that are in the schools that are engaging people in the schools that are engaging people in the schools that are engaging people in the schools? It's like those are the type of schools? It's like those are the type of schools? It's like those are the type of things we have to rethink and it's like things we have to rethink and it's like things we have to rethink and it's like just go where they are. Go where they just go where they are. Go where they just go where they are. Go where they are. Like are. Like are. Like we have to we if we want to reach a new we have to we if we want to reach a new we have to we if we want to reach a new generation, we have to be students of generation, we have to be students of generation, we have to be students of the new gen the new generation studying the new gen the new generation studying the new gen the new generation studying them. That's why we're I love what them. That's why we're I love what them. That's why we're I love what you're doing talking about the trends you're doing talking about the trends you're doing talking about the trends and talking about the statistics, but and talking about the statistics, but and talking about the statistics, but then also doing the then also doing the then also doing the making the efforts to actually go to the making the efforts to actually go to the making the efforts to actually go to the front lines. front lines. front lines. So anyways, that's that's what I would So anyways, that's that's what I would So anyways, that's that's what I would say for say for say for for me when I look at that. And then um for me when I look at that. And then um for me when I look at that. And then um the other thing I would say is, um, the other thing I would say is, um, the other thing I would say is, um, kind of like what Luke was just saying. kind of like what Luke was just saying. kind of like what Luke was just saying. Basically, what he was saying is like a Basically, what he was saying is like a Basically, what he was saying is like a consulting role. If there's someone consulting role. If there's someone consulting role. If there's someone that's really good at something that we that's really good at something that we that's really good at something that we identify within our church, we're identify within our church, we're identify within our church, we're automatically going to them of like, automatically going to them of like, automatically going to them of like, "Who do we know that does a good job at "Who do we know that does a good job at "Who do we know that does a good job at this that's outside of our team?" Cuz we this that's outside of our team?" Cuz we this that's outside of our team?" Cuz we don't have to just think inward, we can don't have to just think inward, we can don't have to just think inward, we can actually think outward, right? So, is actually think outward, right? So, is actually think outward, right? So, is there someone else that could does what there someone else that could does what there someone else that could does what we're doing but better? And could we get we're doing but better? And could we get we're doing but better? And could we get like 20, 30, 40 minutes of their time?

like 20, 30, 40 minutes of their time? like 20, 30, 40 minutes of their time? And then And then And then maybe down the road they would want to maybe down the road they would want to maybe down the road they would want to actually just come in and we have people actually just come in and we have people actually just come in and we have people that come in once a month or almost that come in once a month or almost that come in once a month or almost weekly volunteering their time. Whether weekly volunteering their time. Whether weekly volunteering their time. Whether that's um, in discipleship, evangelism, that's um, in discipleship, evangelism, that's um, in discipleship, evangelism, finances, um, systems, structures. It finances, um, systems, structures. It finances, um, systems, structures. It goes to so many so many different goes to so many so many different goes to so many so many different things. And so, there's so there is so things. And so, there's so there is so things. And so, there's so there is so much gifting even in a hundred much gifting even in a hundred much gifting even in a hundred congregation church. Like, you don't congregation church. Like, you don't congregation church. Like, you don't have to have a massive church to find have to have a massive church to find have to have a massive church to find gifting. It's there, you're just not gifting. It's there, you're just not gifting. It's there, you're just not looking for it or you're only thinking looking for it or you're only thinking looking for it or you're only thinking inward. So, that's my thoughts around inward. So, that's my thoughts around inward. So, that's my thoughts around it. it. it. I think, you know, you mentioned I think, you know, you mentioned I think, you know, you mentioned that like equipping piece and all that. that like equipping piece and all that. that like equipping piece and all that. One of the things that I was thinking One of the things that I was thinking One of the things that I was thinking about, Carrie talked about like that about, Carrie talked about like that about, Carrie talked about like that place in the church. I mean, I remember place in the church. I mean, I remember place in the church. I mean, I remember like I knew I had a call to preach on my like I knew I had a call to preach on my like I knew I had a call to preach on my life from like a young age. Like, I life from like a young age. Like, I life from like a young age. Like, I wanted to preach and I wanted to just wanted to preach and I wanted to just wanted to preach and I wanted to just like test it out. But, there wasn't like test it out. But, there wasn't like test it out. But, there wasn't necessarily, and I think it was just necessarily, and I think it was just necessarily, and I think it was just structure-wise. This wasn't like a, you structure-wise. This wasn't like a, you structure-wise. This wasn't like a, you know, know, know, I honor and love and they're like I honor and love and they're like I honor and love and they're like such a massive contribution to why I such a massive contribution to why I such a massive contribution to why I love and serve Jesus today. But, I was love and serve Jesus today. But, I was love and serve Jesus today. But, I was like, like, like, you know, even in you my youth group, I you know, even in you my youth group, I you know, even in you my youth group, I was like, "There's not really a place was like, "There's not really a place was like, "There's not really a place for me to like try this."

for me to like try this." for me to like try this." Um, and so, I So, really I was like, Um, and so, I So, really I was like, Um, and so, I So, really I was like, "But, I I know I've got this call on my "But, I I know I've got this call on my "But, I I know I've got this call on my life." And I And so, I literally just life." And I And so, I literally just life." And I And so, I literally just started preaching the gospel in the started preaching the gospel in the started preaching the gospel in the middle of like my college classes. Like, middle of like my college classes. Like, middle of like my college classes. Like, I mean I mean, literally in the middle. I mean I mean, literally in the middle. I mean I mean, literally in the middle. Like, I had a Like, I had a Like, I had a professor go, "Hey, you know, professor go, "Hey, you know, professor go, "Hey, you know, everybody stand up and tell us a little everybody stand up and tell us a little everybody stand up and tell us a little bit about yourself." And the guy in bit about yourself." And the guy in bit about yourself." And the guy in front of me was like, "Hey, my name is front of me was like, "Hey, my name is front of me was like, "Hey, my name is Joe and I like guitar." And I'm like, Joe and I like guitar." And I'm like, Joe and I like guitar." And I'm like, "My name is Luke and I can't tell you "My name is Luke and I can't tell you "My name is Luke and I can't tell you about who I am without telling you who about who I am without telling you who about who I am without telling you who changed my life." And I preached a changed my life." And I preached a changed my life." And I preached a little mini sermon to the class. You little mini sermon to the class. You little mini sermon to the class. You know, I'm just like I lit like legit. know, I'm just like I lit like legit. know, I'm just like I lit like legit. And and and so, then then it started And and and so, then then it started And and and so, then then it started like on my college campus where I'm like on my college campus where I'm like on my college campus where I'm like, "I'm going to preach I'm going to like, "I'm going to preach I'm going to like, "I'm going to preach I'm going to I'm going to see if I can pray for one I'm going to see if I can pray for one I'm going to see if I can pray for one person on campus every single day." person on campus every single day." person on campus every single day." And I'm going to, you know, preach the And I'm going to, you know, preach the And I'm going to, you know, preach the gospel. And then it turned into a prayer gospel. And then it turned into a prayer gospel. And then it turned into a prayer meeting that turned into a Bible study. meeting that turned into a Bible study. meeting that turned into a Bible study. And then and, you know, on my college And then and, you know, on my college And then and, you know, on my college campus cuz I didn't have a place I could campus cuz I didn't have a place I could campus cuz I didn't have a place I could practice or like a place I could do it. practice or like a place I could do it. practice or like a place I could do it. And so, I was just going and people just And so, I was just going and people just And so, I was just going and people just started coming to Christ. And then all started coming to Christ. And then all started coming to Christ. And then all of a sudden, other people came and saw of a sudden, other people came and saw of a sudden, other people came and saw it and they were like, it and they were like, it and they were like, "Where did all these young adults come "Where did all these young adults come "Where did all these young adults come from?" That like have given their life from?" That like have given their life from?" That like have given their life to Christ over the last 2 years. And I to Christ over the last 2 years. And I to Christ over the last 2 years. And I was like, "Well, we just started this was like, "Well, we just started this was like, "Well, we just started this prayer meeting and I've been preaching prayer meeting and I've been preaching prayer meeting and I've been preaching on, you know, on, you know, on, you know, lunch breaks." And, uh, and and I think lunch breaks." And, uh, and and I think lunch breaks." And, uh, and and I think it that was kind of like a lightbulb it that was kind of like a lightbulb it that was kind of like a lightbulb moment of like, "Oh, like there's moment of like, "Oh, like there's moment of like, "Oh, like there's something something something on this." And I think too often it's on this." And I think too often it's on this." And I think too often it's like, "We'll try to plug them into Well, like, "We'll try to plug them into Well, like, "We'll try to plug them into Well, we have a young adult ministry here."

we have a young adult ministry here." we have a young adult ministry here." Like, um, and kind of fit them into our Like, um, and kind of fit them into our Like, um, and kind of fit them into our system. system. system. And maybe the system doesn't quite cuz And maybe the system doesn't quite cuz And maybe the system doesn't quite cuz cuz I was like, "They're not at that cuz I was like, "They're not at that cuz I was like, "They're not at that stage." Which is so interesting. It's stage." Which is so interesting. It's stage." Which is so interesting. It's the thing that I feel like it shifted. I the thing that I feel like it shifted. I the thing that I feel like it shifted. I was like, "They're not going to come to was like, "They're not going to come to was like, "They're not going to come to church if I invite them. Like, I've got church if I invite them. Like, I've got church if I invite them. Like, I've got to have it on the campus." Like, "And I to have it on the campus." Like, "And I to have it on the campus." Like, "And I know you want me to start a young adult know you want me to start a young adult know you want me to start a young adult ministry at our church, but they're not ministry at our church, but they're not ministry at our church, but they're not going to drive to our church. So, I've going to drive to our church. So, I've going to drive to our church. So, I've got to do it here." And that's where it got to do it here." And that's where it got to do it here." And that's where it started to grow. And people started to started to grow. And people started to started to grow. And people started to get saved. So, I think we try to get saved. So, I think we try to get saved. So, I think we try to there wasn't a place. And so, I think there wasn't a place. And so, I think there wasn't a place. And so, I think the rise of social media, the rise of the rise of social media, the rise of the rise of social media, the rise of kind of the entrepreneurship of Gen Z, kind of the entrepreneurship of Gen Z, kind of the entrepreneurship of Gen Z, it's like, "Well, if there's not a place it's like, "Well, if there's not a place it's like, "Well, if there's not a place cuz I wasn't trying to come out from cuz I wasn't trying to come out from cuz I wasn't trying to come out from under authority." I was just going, "I under authority." I was just going, "I under authority." I was just going, "I got to got to got to I got to get better and flex it." I got to get better and flex it." I got to get better and flex it." >> You got to do it in a way that makes >> You got to do it in a way that makes >> You got to do it in a way that makes sense. You need space. Really, what sense. You need space. Really, what sense. You need space. Really, what Luke's talking about is actually Luke's talking about is actually Luke's talking about is actually my church did an amazing job with this, my church did an amazing job with this, my church did an amazing job with this, but they gave me spaces to fail. but they gave me spaces to fail. but they gave me spaces to fail. And at a young age because the younger And at a young age because the younger And at a young age because the younger you could fail, the earlier you can you could fail, the earlier you can you could fail, the earlier you can learn your lessons. And which is amazing learn your lessons. And which is amazing learn your lessons. And which is amazing instead of having to go through, you instead of having to go through, you instead of having to go through, you know, 7 years seminary and then you're know, 7 years seminary and then you're know, 7 years seminary and then you're in your mid-20s and then you're just now in your mid-20s and then you're just now in your mid-20s and then you're just now starting to deal with those starting to deal with those starting to deal with those fear of failure, insecurities of fear of failure, insecurities of fear of failure, insecurities of preaching, all the things. And you're preaching, all the things. And you're preaching, all the things. And you're you're almost like 7 years behind. So, you're almost like 7 years behind. So, you're almost like 7 years behind. So, how can you take a generation, empower how can you take a generation, empower how can you take a generation, empower them to lead at a young age, um, and them to lead at a young age, um, and them to lead at a young age, um, and while still telling them to learn while still telling them to learn while still telling them to learn biblical theology and all the other biblical theology and all the other biblical theology and all the other things.

things. things. But, giving them a space to fail at a But, giving them a space to fail at a But, giving them a space to fail at a young age is just so huge. How did you young age is just so huge. How did you young age is just so huge. How did you fail? What space were you given? You fail? What space were you given? You fail? What space were you given? You know, um, know, um, know, um, well, Luke and I shared a well, Luke and I shared a well, Luke and I shared a um, IF Gathering with Jennie Allen. And um, IF Gathering with Jennie Allen. And um, IF Gathering with Jennie Allen. And that was probably one of the that was probably one of the that was probably one of the the the the I was already preaching in high school I was already preaching in high school I was already preaching in high school to thousands of people. to thousands of people. to thousands of people. So, that was my first time where I had So, that was my first time where I had So, that was my first time where I had to deal with to deal with to deal with okay, uh, okay, uh, okay, uh, I'm really liking being liked. I'm I'm really liking being liked. I'm I'm really liking being liked. I'm really liking, you know, kind of that really liking, you know, kind of that really liking, you know, kind of that type of stuff. And I felt like I dealt type of stuff. And I felt like I dealt type of stuff. And I felt like I dealt with it. I was probably 16 to with it. I was probably 16 to with it. I was probably 16 to 20 years old. 20 years old. 20 years old. And then we got, And then we got, And then we got, uh, shared at IF Gathering with Jennie uh, shared at IF Gathering with Jennie uh, shared at IF Gathering with Jennie Allen. And that was a whole 'nother Allen. And that was a whole 'nother Allen. And that was a whole 'nother level of I thought the confidence that I level of I thought the confidence that I level of I thought the confidence that I had at the age of 20 20 years old, I had at the age of 20 20 years old, I had at the age of 20 20 years old, I mean, I thought you could put me in mean, I thought you could put me in mean, I thought you could put me in front of a stadium and I'll be fine. front of a stadium and I'll be fine. front of a stadium and I'll be fine. Then we go in front of Jennie Allen's Then we go in front of Jennie Allen's Then we go in front of Jennie Allen's half a million people streamed online. half a million people streamed online. half a million people streamed online. And we I didn't even know where we were And we I didn't even know where we were And we I didn't even know where we were going into. And then that was a whole going into. And then that was a whole going into. And then that was a whole 'nother level of, 'nother level of, 'nother level of, you know, popularity and people and you know, popularity and people and you know, popularity and people and notoriety.

notoriety. notoriety. And then that forced me And then that forced me And then that forced me to deal with that. And it's not until to deal with that. And it's not until to deal with that. And it's not until you're there and in the moment sometimes you're there and in the moment sometimes you're there and in the moment sometimes that you actually get to deal with it. that you actually get to deal with it. that you actually get to deal with it. And I'm I'm so grateful for it. That she And I'm I'm so grateful for it. That she And I'm I'm so grateful for it. That she just was like, "Oh, these two guys are just was like, "Oh, these two guys are just was like, "Oh, these two guys are throwing raves. Why don't you come share throwing raves. Why don't you come share throwing raves. Why don't you come share your testimony?" your testimony?" your testimony?" And then And then And then Jennie basically sat us down and was Jennie basically sat us down and was Jennie basically sat us down and was like, "Look, like like, "Look, like like, "Look, like people are going to want you to speak people are going to want you to speak people are going to want you to speak everywhere, do book deals, whatnot. But, everywhere, do book deals, whatnot. But, everywhere, do book deals, whatnot. But, you need to just continue to do what you need to just continue to do what you need to just continue to do what Jesus asked you to do. Like, what That's Jesus asked you to do. Like, what That's Jesus asked you to do. Like, what That's the whole reason you're here." And then the whole reason you're here." And then the whole reason you're here." And then leaders in my life just after the the leaders in my life just after the the leaders in my life just after the the aftermath dealing with these aftermath dealing with these aftermath dealing with these insecurities. It was probably a 3-month insecurities. It was probably a 3-month insecurities. It was probably a 3-month process for me of like process for me of like process for me of like actually sticking to what God asked me actually sticking to what God asked me actually sticking to what God asked me to do cuz it it left this insecurity of to do cuz it it left this insecurity of to do cuz it it left this insecurity of I could serve God in the way that best I could serve God in the way that best I could serve God in the way that best serves me, serves me, serves me, build my own name, build my own name, build my own name, book, platform. But, that wasn't book, platform. But, that wasn't book, platform. But, that wasn't necessarily what God had asked me to do necessarily what God had asked me to do necessarily what God had asked me to do at that time, right? So, Well, and Jenny at that time, right? So, Well, and Jenny at that time, right? So, Well, and Jenny did for the two of you and has done for did for the two of you and has done for did for the two of you and has done for the two of you what the stats would say the two of you what the stats would say the two of you what the stats would say a lot of church leaders a lot of church leaders a lot of church leaders aren't willing to do. And I look back at aren't willing to do. And I look back at aren't willing to do. And I look back at me when I was your age, people gave me me when I was your age, people gave me me when I was your age, people gave me ridiculous amounts of responsibility.

ridiculous amounts of responsibility. ridiculous amounts of responsibility. Like, they just kind of like, "Yeah, you Like, they just kind of like, "Yeah, you Like, they just kind of like, "Yeah, you go ahead and preach. You go ahead." Not go ahead and preach. You go ahead." Not go ahead and preach. You go ahead." Not a lot of oversight. And how do you a lot of oversight. And how do you a lot of oversight. And how do you learn? Trial and error, trial and error. learn? Trial and error, trial and error. learn? Trial and error, trial and error. You make a lot of mistakes. And You make a lot of mistakes. And You make a lot of mistakes. And uh, uh, uh, in one of the church trends this year, in one of the church trends this year, in one of the church trends this year, it was something like over 70% of people it was something like over 70% of people it was something like over 70% of people my age my age my age look at the next generation and go, look at the next generation and go, look at the next generation and go, "Yeah, I don't have a lot of "Yeah, I don't have a lot of "Yeah, I don't have a lot of confidence." So, first of all, if you're confidence." So, first of all, if you're confidence." So, first of all, if you're one of those 71%, will you just replay one of those 71%, will you just replay one of those 71%, will you just replay this interview, uh, today cuz I think I this interview, uh, today cuz I think I this interview, uh, today cuz I think I think you'd have a little more think you'd have a little more think you'd have a little more confidence than that. I I am bullish on confidence than that. I I am bullish on confidence than that. I I am bullish on the next generation. And, you know, the next generation. And, you know, the next generation. And, you know, maybe maybe there's that. But, like maybe maybe there's that. But, like maybe maybe there's that. But, like why do you think that is? Cuz I was why do you think that is? Cuz I was why do you think that is? Cuz I was given a lot of responsibility. You guys given a lot of responsibility. You guys given a lot of responsibility. You guys have blessed. But, again, and this is have blessed. But, again, and this is have blessed. But, again, and this is this is not in any way a critique of this is not in any way a critique of this is not in any way a critique of Jenny, but Jenny's operating IF Jenny, but Jenny's operating IF Jenny, but Jenny's operating IF Gathering, which is not congregationally Gathering, which is not congregationally Gathering, which is not congregationally based. Right? She's gone out She's very based. Right? She's gone out She's very based. Right? She's gone out She's very connected with the local church and connected with the local church and connected with the local church and everything. But, you know, her ministry everything. But, you know, her ministry everything. But, you know, her ministry is outside the church. And I wonder if I is outside the church. And I wonder if I is outside the church. And I wonder if I mean, the church should ultimately be mean, the church should ultimately be mean, the church should ultimately be the biggest container in the world for the biggest container in the world for the biggest container in the world for the gospel.

the gospel. the gospel. But, I'm definitely seeing that it's not But, I'm definitely seeing that it's not But, I'm definitely seeing that it's not big enough for a lot of what's happening big enough for a lot of what's happening big enough for a lot of what's happening with the next generation and previous with the next generation and previous with the next generation and previous generations. So, you got a lot of generations. So, you got a lot of generations. So, you got a lot of pastors watching this right now. pastors watching this right now. pastors watching this right now. What would you say to them about What would you say to them about What would you say to them about trusting you and throwing you the keys? Um, Um, trusting the next generation. Or yeah, trusting the next generation. Or yeah, trusting the next generation. Or yeah, you guys, your peers. you guys, your peers. you guys, your peers. Um, the first thing I would say is the first thing I would say is one, as a young leader, just like if one, as a young leader, just like if one, as a young leader, just like if you're an older pastor listening to you're an older pastor listening to you're an older pastor listening to this, I just want to honor them first this, I just want to honor them first this, I just want to honor them first and just say, um, and just say, um, and just say, um, there are concerns I think to be had of, there are concerns I think to be had of, there are concerns I think to be had of, you know, you know, you know, young leaders coming out from We talked young leaders coming out from We talked young leaders coming out from We talked about submission to authority, all this about submission to authority, all this about submission to authority, all this types of things. Like, are we seeing types of things. Like, are we seeing types of things. Like, are we seeing that? that? that? Um, one of the things that I think about Um, one of the things that I think about Um, one of the things that I think about a lot, and this is kind of in my own a lot, and this is kind of in my own a lot, and this is kind of in my own like leadership kind of psyche and and like leadership kind of psyche and and like leadership kind of psyche and and thought life, is, um, I was having a thought life, is, um, I was having a thought life, is, um, I was having a conversation cuz I kept going around the conversation cuz I kept going around the conversation cuz I kept going around the world world world for Gather 25, this event that I was for Gather 25, this event that I was for Gather 25, this event that I was working on with Jenny. And I was finding working on with Jenny. And I was finding working on with Jenny. And I was finding these leaders all over the world that these leaders all over the world that these leaders all over the world that were just unbelievable. And not just in were just unbelievable. And not just in were just unbelievable. And not just in their competence, but like you talk with their competence, but like you talk with their competence, but like you talk with them and it was like them and it was like them and it was like I wanted to cry because like the sense I wanted to cry because like the sense I wanted to cry because like the sense of the presence of God. Like, just of the presence of God. Like, just of the presence of God. Like, just talking with them, what they were doing talking with them, what they were doing talking with them, what they were doing around the world, the the way that they around the world, the the way that they around the world, the the way that they loved people. And I was like, "Where did loved people. And I was like, "Where did loved people. And I was like, "Where did you come from?" And they all kept saying you come from?" And they all kept saying you come from?" And they all kept saying the same thing. They're like, "Oh, we the same thing. They're like, "Oh, we the same thing. They're like, "Oh, we grew up at, uh, HTB under Nicky." Nicky grew up at, uh, HTB under Nicky." Nicky grew up at, uh, HTB under Nicky." Nicky Gumbel.

Gumbel. Gumbel. And I was like, And I was like, And I was like, "How? Why?" Like, so I started digging. "How? Why?" Like, so I started digging. "How? Why?" Like, so I started digging. I'm like, every person I would come I'm like, every person I would come I'm like, every person I would come across like that, I was asking them across like that, I was asking them across like that, I was asking them questions. And I remember, um, I think questions. And I remember, um, I think questions. And I remember, um, I think it was Shayla Visser who said this. Oh, it was Shayla Visser who said this. Oh, it was Shayla Visser who said this. Oh, yeah. Um, Alpha Canada. And yeah, and yeah. Um, Alpha Canada. And yeah, and yeah. Um, Alpha Canada. And yeah, and she said, uh, we were we were in Korea she said, uh, we were we were in Korea she said, uh, we were we were in Korea for those on. And I was at a table with for those on. And I was at a table with for those on. And I was at a table with her and I was asking her. I was like, her and I was asking her. I was like, her and I was asking her. I was like, "Wha- why?" And she said, "Nicky's "Wha- why?" And she said, "Nicky's "Wha- why?" And she said, "Nicky's philosophy." Or maybe it was Todd philosophy." Or maybe it was Todd philosophy." Or maybe it was Todd Proctor. It was one of the two of them. Proctor. It was one of the two of them. Proctor. It was one of the two of them. And they said, uh, And they said, uh, And they said, uh, "Nicky used to say, um, "Nicky used to say, um, "Nicky used to say, um, do you do you want to be the best or do do you do you want to be the best or do do you do you want to be the best or do you want to raise up 10 better?" you want to raise up 10 better?" you want to raise up 10 better?" And she said, "And his philosophy was And she said, "And his philosophy was And she said, "And his philosophy was always, I want to raise up 10 better." always, I want to raise up 10 better." always, I want to raise up 10 better." And so, Nicky's like taking, you know, And so, Nicky's like taking, you know, And so, Nicky's like taking, you know, he's he's so humble in the background on he's he's so humble in the background on he's he's so humble in the background on so many things. And so many things. And so many things. And like unbelievable reach. And one of the like unbelievable reach. And one of the like unbelievable reach. And one of the things I think about a lot is and I I things I think about a lot is and I I things I think about a lot is and I I think about this in my I want to be this think about this in my I want to be this think about this in my I want to be this type of leader cuz this is what I see in type of leader cuz this is what I see in type of leader cuz this is what I see in the life of Jesus. And this is what I the life of Jesus. And this is what I the life of Jesus. And this is what I see in the leaders who have done see in the leaders who have done see in the leaders who have done you know, so many amazing things for me. you know, so many amazing things for me. you know, so many amazing things for me. People like Jenny, people like John People like Jenny, people like John People like Jenny, people like John Tyson, people, you know, that have have Tyson, people, you know, that have have Tyson, people, you know, that have have almost who have almost reck- what I almost who have almost reck- what I almost who have almost reck- what I would say recklessly believed in me.

would say recklessly believed in me. would say recklessly believed in me. And I see this in Jesus where And I see this in Jesus where And I see this in Jesus where Jesus sends out the 12. Jesus sends out the 12. Jesus sends out the 12. They start going from town to town, They start going from town to town, They start going from town to town, right? They're preaching the gospel. right? They're preaching the gospel. right? They're preaching the gospel. >> was reckless belief. They got it wrong a >> was reckless belief. They got it wrong a >> was reckless belief. They got it wrong a lot. lot. lot. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> So reckless. 100% And and They're young. >> So reckless. 100% And and They're young. >> So reckless. 100% And and They're young. Yeah, so they send out they send out the Yeah, so they send out they send out the Yeah, so they send out they send out the 12, he sends out the 12 and they go to 12, he sends out the 12 and they go to 12, he sends out the 12 and they go to Samaria, rejects the gospel and they Samaria, rejects the gospel and they Samaria, rejects the gospel and they come back and they say, "Hey, can we come back and they say, "Hey, can we come back and they say, "Hey, can we call down fire from heaven?" To kill call down fire from heaven?" To kill call down fire from heaven?" To kill them all. them all. them all. And I'm like, I think we That's what And I'm like, I think we That's what And I'm like, I think we That's what teenagers do, man. teenagers do, man. teenagers do, man. >> We read past I'm like I I I'm genuinely >> We read past I'm like I I I'm genuinely >> We read past I'm like I I I'm genuinely going, "Can you imagine if 12 guys that going, "Can you imagine if 12 guys that going, "Can you imagine if 12 guys that you've been discipling, you send them you've been discipling, you send them you've been discipling, you send them out to their high school and they come out to their high school and they come out to their high school and they come back and say, 'Hey, they didn't believe back and say, 'Hey, they didn't believe back and say, 'Hey, they didn't believe our message, can we pray for a hurricane our message, can we pray for a hurricane our message, can we pray for a hurricane to murder all of our friends?'" to murder all of our friends?'" to murder all of our friends?'" >> You just nuke them. Like can you That's >> You just nuke them. Like can you That's >> You just nuke them. Like can you That's a legitimate ask. I'm like, if that were a legitimate ask. I'm like, if that were a legitimate ask. I'm like, if that were me, I would go, "You need to sit down, me, I would go, "You need to sit down, me, I would go, "You need to sit down, cool out and I'm not letting you do cool out and I'm not letting you do cool out and I'm not letting you do anything. I'm not letting you come near anything. I'm not letting you come near anything. I'm not letting you come near this place for 3 years at least, you this place for 3 years at least, you this place for 3 years at least, you know? Like cool down." know? Like cool down." know? Like cool down." What does Jesus do? He rebukes them. What does Jesus do? He rebukes them. What does Jesus do? He rebukes them. He goes, you know, very clear feedback He goes, you know, very clear feedback He goes, you know, very clear feedback loop. Like loop. Like loop. Like very clear direct feedback. You don't very clear direct feedback. You don't very clear direct feedback. You don't know what spirit you're of. That's not know what spirit you're of. That's not know what spirit you're of. That's not how this kingdom works. Don't do that how this kingdom works. Don't do that how this kingdom works. Don't do that again. And then he goes, again. And then he goes, again. And then he goes, "Hey, that went so well, why don't I "Hey, that went so well, why don't I "Hey, that went so well, why don't I send out 60 of your friends with you to send out 60 of your friends with you to send out 60 of your friends with you to do" Next passage, literally next verse, do" Next passage, literally next verse, do" Next passage, literally next verse, Jesus goes sends out the 72. He's going Jesus goes sends out the 72. He's going Jesus goes sends out the 72. He's going >> Unreal.

>> Unreal. >> Unreal. >> He's going, "All that that went so well, >> He's going, "All that that went so well, >> He's going, "All that that went so well, let's send out 72 of you now." And I'm let's send out 72 of you now." And I'm let's send out 72 of you now." And I'm like like like and it said to go into every village and it said to go into every village and it said to go into every village where he was about to go. They're his PR where he was about to go. They're his PR where he was about to go. They're his PR crew. Like they're preparing the ground crew. Like they're preparing the ground crew. Like they're preparing the ground for him to come in. And and I'm like, if for him to come in. And and I'm like, if for him to come in. And and I'm like, if Jesus Jesus Jesus and this is where I think we we get it and this is where I think we we get it and this is where I think we we get it mixed up a little bit is I think in some mixed up a little bit is I think in some mixed up a little bit is I think in some cases and I I I do this too. This is cases and I I I do this too. This is cases and I I I do this too. This is literally my own critique of my own literally my own critique of my own literally my own critique of my own leadership. This isn't me trying to leadership. This isn't me trying to leadership. This isn't me trying to speak to older leaders who know far more speak to older leaders who know far more speak to older leaders who know far more than I do. than I do. than I do. I'm going, I'm going, I'm going, I think we can often confuse delegating I think we can often confuse delegating I think we can often confuse delegating with empowering. with empowering. with empowering. And where delegating would be saying to And where delegating would be saying to And where delegating would be saying to someone, "Hey, here's the things I don't someone, "Hey, here's the things I don't someone, "Hey, here's the things I don't have time for and don't want to do. Can have time for and don't want to do. Can have time for and don't want to do. Can you please do this?" you please do this?" you please do this?" Empowering would be going, "Hey, here's Empowering would be going, "Hey, here's Empowering would be going, "Hey, here's [clears throat] the things I actually [clears throat] the things I actually [clears throat] the things I actually love to do. Like I love to preach, but love to do. Like I love to preach, but love to do. Like I love to preach, but in order to give you a shot and to in order to give you a shot and to in order to give you a shot and to develop you, I want to raise up 10 develop you, I want to raise up 10 develop you, I want to raise up 10 better. I'm going to preach a couple better. I'm going to preach a couple better. I'm going to preach a couple less times and I'm going to let you do less times and I'm going to let you do less times and I'm going to let you do it and I'm going to, you know, the kind it and I'm going to, you know, the kind it and I'm going to, you know, the kind of of of uh uh uh I do it, you watch, you know, we do it I do it, you watch, you know, we do it I do it, you watch, you know, we do it together, I do it you you do it, I watch together, I do it you you do it, I watch together, I do it you you do it, I watch and then you do it alone. It's like that and then you do it alone. It's like that and then you do it alone. It's like that that that discipleship factor and I that that discipleship factor and I that that discipleship factor and I think think think um um um there there's a lot of leaders that I I there there's a lot of leaders that I I there there's a lot of leaders that I I feel like I see going, "Oh, we are we feel like I see going, "Oh, we are we feel like I see going, "Oh, we are we are empowering Gen Z." I'm like, I think are empowering Gen Z." I'm like, I think are empowering Gen Z." I'm like, I think you're delegating to Gen Z.

you're delegating to Gen Z. you're delegating to Gen Z. The things you don't want to do and Gen The things you don't want to do and Gen The things you don't want to do and Gen Z doesn't feel empowered. And so they're Z doesn't feel empowered. And so they're Z doesn't feel empowered. And so they're going, "Well, like going, "Well, like going, "Well, like I I need to flex this preaching gift so I I need to flex this preaching gift so I I need to flex this preaching gift so I'm going to go do it on Tik Tok cuz I I'm going to go do it on Tik Tok cuz I I'm going to go do it on Tik Tok cuz I at least get a feedback loop cuz people at least get a feedback loop cuz people at least get a feedback loop cuz people go, 'This sucks.'" And like, "Oh, cool, go, 'This sucks.'" And like, "Oh, cool, go, 'This sucks.'" And like, "Oh, cool, I'm not going to do that again. I can I'm not going to do that again. I can I'm not going to do that again. I can try it." They at least have a feedback try it." They at least have a feedback try it." They at least have a feedback loop. loop. loop. >> That's good, Luke. >> That's good, Luke. >> That's good, Luke. Anything from you, Daniel, on that? Cuz Anything from you, Daniel, on that? Cuz Anything from you, Daniel, on that? Cuz this is a heartbeat of mine. Well, Luke this is a heartbeat of mine. Well, Luke this is a heartbeat of mine. Well, Luke was kind of hitting on it a little bit was kind of hitting on it a little bit was kind of hitting on it a little bit earlier, but he was talk you were asking earlier, but he was talk you were asking earlier, but he was talk you were asking the question about places in the church the question about places in the church the question about places in the church and then a lot of what Luke had talked and then a lot of what Luke had talked and then a lot of what Luke had talked about was about was about was places outside of the church. places outside of the church. places outside of the church. >> cuz we don't open up space. I just think >> cuz we don't open up space. I just think >> cuz we don't open up space. I just think we should have that conversation about we should have that conversation about we should have that conversation about the different movements that are the different movements that are the different movements that are happening like right now in Gen Z. Like happening like right now in Gen Z. Like happening like right now in Gen Z. Like what I'm seeing what I'm seeing what I'm seeing is is is I'm seeing Gen Z either they're going to I'm seeing Gen Z either they're going to I'm seeing Gen Z either they're going to social media or they're genuinely social media or they're genuinely social media or they're genuinely starting like a grassroots starting like a grassroots starting like a grassroots movement right now. movement right now. movement right now. And And And God's hand is on it. God's hand is on it. God's hand is on it. Like really on it. Like I have a a Like really on it. Like I have a a Like really on it. Like I have a a friend, Will Garinger, who started thing friend, Will Garinger, who started thing friend, Will Garinger, who started thing called Run With Christ.

called Run With Christ. called Run With Christ. He gave his life to Jesus which is He gave his life to Jesus which is He gave his life to Jesus which is November, 14 months ago, gave his life November, 14 months ago, gave his life November, 14 months ago, gave his life to Jesus, started a run club in to Jesus, started a run club in to Jesus, started a run club in Columbus, Ohio. Columbus, Ohio. Columbus, Ohio. It's now 82 locations, gospel-centered, It's now 82 locations, gospel-centered, It's now 82 locations, gospel-centered, multiple different countries and then multiple different countries and then multiple different countries and then thousands and thousands of young people thousands and thousands of young people thousands and thousands of young people are gathering for a run club and they're are gathering for a run club and they're are gathering for a run club and they're preaching the gospel. Major evangelistic preaching the gospel. Major evangelistic preaching the gospel. Major evangelistic movement right now happening. Which I movement right now happening. Which I movement right now happening. Which I would go the way you kill that is to go, would go the way you kill that is to go, would go the way you kill that is to go, "We have to bring this inside the local "We have to bring this inside the local "We have to bring this inside the local church, though." church, though." church, though." Of go of like I think I think one way Of go of like I think I think one way Of go of like I think I think one way you could kill the organic nature of you could kill the organic nature of you could kill the organic nature of that is and his his local church pastor that is and his his local church pastor that is and his his local church pastor in Columbus is super empowering would be in Columbus is super empowering would be in Columbus is super empowering would be to go, "We want to make this a ministry to go, "We want to make this a ministry to go, "We want to make this a ministry of our church." And go, "Boom, we're of our church." And go, "Boom, we're of our church." And go, "Boom, we're going to pull it in." going to pull it in." going to pull it in." Instead instead of going like "How can we serve that? Like is there a "How can we serve that? Like is there a way like Will, do you need some like way like Will, do you need some like way like Will, do you need some like funding? Like is there anything that we funding? Like is there anything that we funding? Like is there anything that we can do to to help like, you know, Will, can do to to help like, you know, Will, can do to to help like, you know, Will, how are you raising support for this? how are you raising support for this? how are you raising support for this? Like you're reaching tens of thousands Like you're reaching tens of thousands Like you're reaching tens of thousands of young people around the world." of young people around the world." of young people around the world." When do you feel empowered?

Mm, that's a good question. Mm, that's a good question. When do I feel empowered? I would I think I would I think when I'm given opportunity to try and when I'm given opportunity to try and when I'm given opportunity to try and fail. I think that's a big one of going fail. I think that's a big one of going fail. I think that's a big one of going I have enough autonomy I have enough autonomy I have enough autonomy because because because to go not only am I willing to am I to go not only am I willing to am I to go not only am I willing to am I allowed to have an idea allowed to have an idea allowed to have an idea and and contribute an idea, and and contribute an idea, and and contribute an idea, I'm able to attempt that idea I'm able to attempt that idea I'm able to attempt that idea Yeah. even if it doesn't work and if it Yeah. even if it doesn't work and if it Yeah. even if it doesn't work and if it doesn't work, doesn't work, doesn't work, um um um my influence is not revoked. my influence is not revoked. my influence is not revoked. Um cuz that's the only thing we see Um cuz that's the only thing we see Um cuz that's the only thing we see That's the only thing we see in Jesus is That's the only thing we see in Jesus is That's the only thing we see in Jesus is like he doesn't revoke their influence like he doesn't revoke their influence like he doesn't revoke their influence at their failure. at their failure. at their failure. You know, Yeah. He he re-empowers it. He You know, Yeah. He he re-empowers it. He You know, Yeah. He he re-empowers it. He corrects, rebukes, feedback, corrects, rebukes, feedback, corrects, rebukes, feedback, re-empowers, try again. re-empowers, try again. re-empowers, try again. Yeah, corrects, rebukes, exhorts. Yeah, corrects, rebukes, exhorts. Yeah, corrects, rebukes, exhorts. >> Peter's getting it wrong wrong wrong, >> Peter's getting it wrong wrong wrong, >> Peter's getting it wrong wrong wrong, running away from the cross. running away from the cross. running away from the cross. >> Yeah. And the next [clears throat] scene >> Yeah. And the next [clears throat] scene >> Yeah. And the next [clears throat] scene is, "Do you love me?" Yes. Yeah, do you is, "Do you love me?" Yes. Yeah, do you is, "Do you love me?" Yes. Yeah, do you love me? love me? love me? I think I feel empowered I think I feel empowered I think I feel empowered I like to call it test run.

I like to call it test run. I like to call it test run. And so what we do with our organization And so what we do with our organization And so what we do with our organization is like is like is like we have such an innovation, anything we we have such an innovation, anything we we have such an innovation, anything we can do to reach a new generation. can do to reach a new generation. can do to reach a new generation. But when I feel like a leader empowers But when I feel like a leader empowers But when I feel like a leader empowers me to try something new or to build me to try something new or to build me to try something new or to build something new and they're something new and they're something new and they're and you may not stick with what you and you may not stick with what you and you may not stick with what you originally started with, but you're originally started with, but you're originally started with, but you're going to test run to see if it sticks, going to test run to see if it sticks, going to test run to see if it sticks, if it reaches a new generation, if it if it reaches a new generation, if it if it reaches a new generation, if it fails. fails. fails. But that's like one of my favorite I But that's like one of my favorite I But that's like one of my favorite I feel empowered when a leader goes, "Hey, feel empowered when a leader goes, "Hey, feel empowered when a leader goes, "Hey, we see you. We see your gifting. we see you. We see your gifting. we see you. We see your gifting. We need you. Can you come in, help us We need you. Can you come in, help us We need you. Can you come in, help us dream on how to reach this?" dream on how to reach this?" dream on how to reach this?" And then I like to go, "Hey, we're not And then I like to go, "Hey, we're not And then I like to go, "Hey, we're not establishing something here. establishing something here. establishing something here. Let's just do one and let's just see how Let's just do one and let's just see how Let's just do one and let's just see how it goes." Sure. it goes." Sure. it goes." Sure. You know, and then let's dream from You know, and then let's dream from You know, and then let's dream from there. And there. And there. And the great part about empowerment, I the great part about empowerment, I the great part about empowerment, I think, is that like think, is that like think, is that like there's always the idea that it doesn't there's always the idea that it doesn't there's always the idea that it doesn't have to stay the same after that. have to stay the same after that. have to stay the same after that. Like I think we sometimes think like Like I think we sometimes think like Like I think we sometimes think like once we launch something, establish once we launch something, establish once we launch something, establish something, it's got to stay the same, something, it's got to stay the same, something, it's got to stay the same, it's got to stay in that same system.

it's got to stay in that same system. it's got to stay in that same system. But how about just do the wild But how about just do the wild But how about just do the wild evangelism outreach that you thought of evangelism outreach that you thought of evangelism outreach that you thought of that seemed kind of crazy on Halloween. that seemed kind of crazy on Halloween. that seemed kind of crazy on Halloween. Like just go for it, see how it goes, Like just go for it, see how it goes, Like just go for it, see how it goes, test run it and you may never do that test run it and you may never do that test run it and you may never do that again. Yeah, yeah. again. Yeah, yeah. again. Yeah, yeah. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> It might have not worked. >> It might have not worked. >> It might have not worked. Or maybe it did work spectacularly, but Or maybe it did work spectacularly, but Or maybe it did work spectacularly, but that doesn't mean you have to do it that doesn't mean you have to do it that doesn't mean you have to do it every year. It doesn't mean you have to every year. It doesn't mean you have to every year. It doesn't mean you have to keep everybody at the church and do keep everybody at the church and do keep everybody at the church and do worship that night because safer. Right. worship that night because safer. Right. worship that night because safer. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. [laughter] Right. Right. [laughter] Right. Right. [laughter] So there's there's, you know, a number So there's there's, you know, a number So there's there's, you know, a number of things you touched on. Um one of the of things you touched on. Um one of the of things you touched on. Um one of the things I want to touch on is the things I want to touch on is the things I want to touch on is the algorithm. algorithm. algorithm. But anything else you saw in the church But anything else you saw in the church But anything else you saw in the church trends doc which you've had a chance to trends doc which you've had a chance to trends doc which you've had a chance to review that really caught your attention review that really caught your attention review that really caught your attention that you want to talk about? that you want to talk about? that you want to talk about? I want to stay on movements. Yeah. I want to stay on movements. Yeah. I want to stay on movements. Yeah. >> On >> On >> On next generation movements. I just think next generation movements. I just think next generation movements. I just think that the way of the future for the that the way of the future for the that the way of the future for the church is to think about movements. church is to think about movements. church is to think about movements. Okay. Tell me more about that. Um well, Okay. Tell me more about that. Um well, Okay. Tell me more about that. Um well, I mean I just said about Will Garinger. I mean I just said about Will Garinger. I mean I just said about Will Garinger. There's a lot of examples like him.

There's a lot of examples like him. There's a lot of examples like him. There's just so many examples right now There's just so many examples right now There's just so many examples right now like him that are happening and sparking like him that are happening and sparking like him that are happening and sparking within the younger generation. And if within the younger generation. And if within the younger generation. And if older generation doesn't come behind and older generation doesn't come behind and older generation doesn't come behind and support and be willing to cover while support and be willing to cover while support and be willing to cover while also not taking control, Right. also not taking control, Right. also not taking control, Right. >> these movements will stay young people >> these movements will stay young people >> these movements will stay young people movements and they will die. That's what movements and they will die. That's what movements and they will die. That's what I believe. I believe. I believe. And so if if a church can't come behind And so if if a church can't come behind And so if if a church can't come behind and actually say, "Hey, you know what? I and actually say, "Hey, you know what? I and actually say, "Hey, you know what? I actually am okay with getting behind actually am okay with getting behind actually am okay with getting behind something that my church name might not something that my church name might not something that my church name might not ever be a part of or be stuck to, but ever be a part of or be stuck to, but ever be a part of or be stuck to, but I'm a leader or senior pastor, but and I I'm a leader or senior pastor, but and I I'm a leader or senior pastor, but and I see this young person, but I'm willing see this young person, but I'm willing see this young person, but I'm willing to come behind, empower, show up." Like to come behind, empower, show up." Like to come behind, empower, show up." Like I even tell our young guys, like for I even tell our young guys, like for I even tell our young guys, like for example, example, example, we have 23 we have 23 we have 23 we have 50 student leaders on 23 we have 50 student leaders on 23 we have 50 student leaders on 23 different high school campuses. We run different high school campuses. We run different high school campuses. We run unity gatherings, hundreds of high unity gatherings, hundreds of high unity gatherings, hundreds of high school students gather. One of our school students gather. One of our school students gather. One of our students, students, students, um he started doing these gatherings um he started doing these gatherings um he started doing these gatherings with just men with just men with just men and 150 to 200 and 150 to 200 and 150 to 200 young people are going. Now, if we were young people are going. Now, if we were young people are going. Now, if we were a church, you'd be like, "Oh, well, a church, you'd be like, "Oh, well, a church, you'd be like, "Oh, well, that's kind of a threat to our that's kind of a threat to our that's kind of a threat to our this young leader is starting this this young leader is starting this this young leader is starting this outside thing outside thing outside thing on Saturdays with all of our same on Saturdays with all of our same on Saturdays with all of our same people, our same crew."

people, our same crew." people, our same crew." And that's where that conversation might And that's where that conversation might And that's where that conversation might come like, "Hey, like let's bring this come like, "Hey, like let's bring this come like, "Hey, like let's bring this back into the church." But then I'm back into the church." But then I'm back into the church." But then I'm going I'm leaning in. I'm going telling going I'm leaning in. I'm going telling going I'm leaning in. I'm going telling our team, "Hey, our team, "Hey, our team, "Hey, we need to show up to this. Let's just we need to show up to this. Let's just we need to show up to this. Let's just be the people that bring pay for all the be the people that bring pay for all the be the people that bring pay for all the hot dogs, all the, you know, candy. hot dogs, all the, you know, candy. hot dogs, all the, you know, candy. Let's just show up and let's just be Let's just show up and let's just be Let's just show up and let's just be like, 'Hey, look, we're here. Anytime like, 'Hey, look, we're here. Anytime like, 'Hey, look, we're here. Anytime you want to do anything, we're here. you want to do anything, we're here. you want to do anything, we're here. We're showing up.'" We're showing up.'" We're showing up.'" Like let's cover this. Let's not pull Like let's cover this. Let's not pull Like let's cover this. Let's not pull out. Let's not disengage. Let's not say out. Let's not disengage. Let's not say out. Let's not disengage. Let's not say it's bad because that's hunger. That's a it's bad because that's hunger. That's a it's bad because that's hunger. That's a form of leadership and like we need to form of leadership and like we need to form of leadership and like we need to be I think the church needs to begin to be I think the church needs to begin to be I think the church needs to begin to have eyes over these movements instead have eyes over these movements instead have eyes over these movements instead of pushing away, pulling away, of pushing away, pulling away, of pushing away, pulling away, separating, but going, "Hey, let's just separating, but going, "Hey, let's just separating, but going, "Hey, let's just serve this. Let's just try to cover serve this. Let's just try to cover serve this. Let's just try to cover this. Let's be a brother to them. Like this. Let's be a brother to them. Like this. Let's be a brother to them. Like let's And so that's something I was even let's And so that's something I was even let's And so that's something I was even telling our team is like, 'Hey, like telling our team is like, 'Hey, like telling our team is like, 'Hey, like look, I know you're not on the clock, look, I know you're not on the clock, look, I know you're not on the clock, but like we need to be showing up to but like we need to be showing up to but like we need to be showing up to this. Like this. Like this. Like if you want to be a part of move God we if you want to be a part of move God we if you want to be a part of move God we talk about it, this is what's happening. talk about it, this is what's happening. talk about it, this is what's happening. You know, are we just about our move, You know, are we just about our move, You know, are we just about our move, you know? you know? you know? Yeah, so or you know, or do we want a Yeah, so or you know, or do we want a Yeah, so or you know, or do we want a move of God in this next generation in move of God in this next generation in move of God in this next generation in in our region? And are we willing to do in our region? And are we willing to do in our region? And are we willing to do anything for it? Anything for it means anything for it? Anything for it means anything for it? Anything for it means we may not be the ones leading it, you we may not be the ones leading it, you we may not be the ones leading it, you know? [laughter] But can we just be the know? [laughter] But can we just be the know? [laughter] But can we just be the ones showing up? I mean, you look at ones showing up? I mean, you look at ones showing up? I mean, you look at Asbury, right? Asbury, insane, right?

Asbury, right? Asbury, insane, right? Asbury, right? Asbury, insane, right? But they needed people to change the But they needed people to change the But they needed people to change the toilet paper every single day. Bring toilet paper every single day. Bring toilet paper every single day. Bring lunch for the people that were there all lunch for the people that were there all lunch for the people that were there all night long. night long. night long. >> Like you pray for revival, you pray for >> Like you pray for revival, you pray for >> Like you pray for revival, you pray for a move of God, and then God does it, and a move of God, and then God does it, and a move of God, and then God does it, and then you might find yourself being a then you might find yourself being a then you might find yourself being a part of it by changing the toilet paper. part of it by changing the toilet paper. part of it by changing the toilet paper. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> You know what I mean? >> You know what I mean? >> You know what I mean? I do. Well, I would be honored to be a I do. Well, I would be honored to be a I do. Well, I would be honored to be a part of that. Right? part of that. Right? part of that. Right? >> You know? I'm honored to be like to, you >> You know? I'm honored to be like to, you >> You know? I'm honored to be like to, you know, to say that you know, I changed know, to say that you know, I changed know, to say that you know, I changed toilet paper and cleaned toilet paper. toilet paper and cleaned toilet paper. toilet paper and cleaned toilet paper. >> and I was a part of it. It was a move of >> and I was a part of it. It was a move of >> and I was a part of it. It was a move of God. And you will miss out on a move of God. And you will miss out on a move of God. And you will miss out on a move of God if but if you're not willing to do God if but if you're not willing to do God if but if you're not willing to do that. And that again goes back to the that. And that again goes back to the that. And that again goes back to the heart posture of our generation and goes heart posture of our generation and goes heart posture of our generation and goes back to authority and all those things. back to authority and all those things. back to authority and all those things. But I just think that there is so much But I just think that there is so much But I just think that there is so much happening right now and so much you can happening right now and so much you can happening right now and so much you can either be a part of or miss out on, but either be a part of or miss out on, but either be a part of or miss out on, but we have to begin to dream outside of our we have to begin to dream outside of our we have to begin to dream outside of our four walls. four walls. four walls. Yeah. And you know, the other thing I Yeah. And you know, the other thing I Yeah. And you know, the other thing I pick up, and you've you've already said pick up, and you've you've already said pick up, and you've you've already said it, is it, is it, is your generation, that's one of the your generation, that's one of the your generation, that's one of the reasons I love coming to Nashville. It's reasons I love coming to Nashville. It's reasons I love coming to Nashville. It's all kinds of people your age and a all kinds of people your age and a all kinds of people your age and a little bit older little bit older little bit older who actually want to hang out.

who actually want to hang out. who actually want to hang out. Who really want to spend time. Like Who really want to spend time. Like Who really want to spend time. Like you're not like, "Yeah, all of us under you're not like, "Yeah, all of us under you're not like, "Yeah, all of us under 30, we figured it all out, and please go 30, we figured it all out, and please go 30, we figured it all out, and please go away." You're looking for a blessing. away." You're looking for a blessing. away." You're looking for a blessing. You're looking for covering. You're looking for covering. You're looking for covering. >> Yes. And it doesn't even have to come >> Yes. And it doesn't even have to come >> Yes. And it doesn't even have to come with funding. I think one of our with funding. I think one of our with funding. I think one of our responsibilities is not to fight the responsibilities is not to fight the responsibilities is not to fight the next generation, but to fund it. Um but next generation, but to fund it. Um but next generation, but to fund it. Um but you're not always just asking for money. you're not always just asking for money. you're not always just asking for money. You're just like, "Would you pray with You're just like, "Would you pray with You're just like, "Would you pray with me? Would you cover me? Would you Would me? Would you cover me? Would you Would me? Would you cover me? Would you Would you You know, you started my question you You know, you started my question you You know, you started my question which you could have gone in different which you could have gone in different which you could have gone in different directions saying, "I want to honor the directions saying, "I want to honor the directions saying, "I want to honor the pastors who are watching here, and I pastors who are watching here, and I pastors who are watching here, and I want to honor" Like that is something, want to honor" Like that is something, want to honor" Like that is something, honestly, I think a not nearly enough honestly, I think a not nearly enough honestly, I think a not nearly enough people of my generation and around that people of my generation and around that people of my generation and around that really understand that. I think there really understand that. I think there really understand that. I think there could be a lot more that we could do could be a lot more that we could do could be a lot more that we could do together together together without without trying to incorporate without without trying to incorporate without without trying to incorporate movements and movements and movements and trying to officialize everything. trying to officialize everything. trying to officialize everything. So, maybe we can wrap up on the So, maybe we can wrap up on the So, maybe we can wrap up on the algorithm then. algorithm then. algorithm then. You know, AI is coming down the pipe. You know, AI is coming down the pipe. You know, AI is coming down the pipe. That was another trend. It's in its That was another trend. It's in its That was another trend. It's in its infancy. And um I'm infancy. And um I'm infancy. And um I'm >> in infancy. Yeah, I know. [laughter] >> in infancy. Yeah, I know. [laughter] >> in infancy. Yeah, I know. [laughter] It's pretty strong in infancy. This has It's pretty strong in infancy. This has It's pretty strong in infancy. This has been my research wormhole for a year, been my research wormhole for a year, been my research wormhole for a year, man. That's the strongest baby I ever man. That's the strongest baby I ever man. That's the strongest baby I ever seen. Yeah, that's a Yeah, that's a seen. Yeah, that's a Yeah, that's a seen. Yeah, that's a Yeah, that's a crazy baby.

crazy baby. crazy baby. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> So, you know, but when you look at where >> So, you know, but when you look at where >> So, you know, but when you look at where >> out of Incredibles. That's what that is. You know, it is it is really powerful. You know, it is it is really powerful. And this has been the wormhole I've been And this has been the wormhole I've been And this has been the wormhole I've been in for a year now, just studying, in for a year now, just studying, in for a year now, just studying, researching, trying to figure out what researching, trying to figure out what researching, trying to figure out what the impact of AI is going to be, and the impact of AI is going to be, and the impact of AI is going to be, and I'm an optimist, managed to finish the I'm an optimist, managed to finish the I'm an optimist, managed to finish the first draft of the book on optimism, but first draft of the book on optimism, but first draft of the book on optimism, but it's like it's going to be disruptive, it's like it's going to be disruptive, it's like it's going to be disruptive, man. man. man. And it's very, very powerful. So, when And it's very, very powerful. So, when And it's very, very powerful. So, when you think about algorithms and your you think about algorithms and your you think about algorithms and your generation, let's just start with what generation, let's just start with what generation, let's just start with what we have now. we have now. we have now. What are you seeing? Good or bad? What are you seeing? Good or bad? What are you seeing? Good or bad? Bad. Bad. Bad. Bad. Bad. Bad. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> I mean >> I mean >> I mean Bad. Bad. Bad. Um Bad. Bad. Bad. Um Bad. Bad. Bad. Um Be an optimist, bro. I mean, it's Well, Be an optimist, bro. I mean, it's Well, Be an optimist, bro. I mean, it's Well, yeah, okay. I mean, it's a good yeah, okay. I mean, it's a good yeah, okay. I mean, it's a good >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Is the algorithm is I heard somebody say >> Is the algorithm is I heard somebody say >> Is the algorithm is I heard somebody say this recently, I thought this was so this recently, I thought this was so this recently, I thought this was so good. The algorithm is a reflection of good. The algorithm is a reflection of good. The algorithm is a reflection of you. So, what's what's what's showing up you. So, what's what's what's showing up you. So, what's what's what's showing up on your For You page on your For You page on your For You page has been learned by what you're thinking has been learned by what you're thinking has been learned by what you're thinking about and what you're what you're about and what you're what you're about and what you're what you're watching. We had someone want to cancel watching. We had someone want to cancel watching. We had someone want to cancel our YouTube because of all the our YouTube because of all the our YouTube because of all the inappropriate videos that were showing inappropriate videos that were showing inappropriate videos that were showing on it.

on it. on it. We didn't know how to break it to him We didn't know how to break it to him We didn't know how to break it to him that that isn't us. that that isn't us. that that isn't us. >> Yes. [laughter] It's your algorithm, >> Yes. [laughter] It's your algorithm, >> Yes. [laughter] It's your algorithm, buddy. That is your algorithm. Oh my buddy. That is your algorithm. Oh my buddy. That is your algorithm. Oh my gosh. I am so sorry. They're suggesting gosh. I am so sorry. They're suggesting gosh. I am so sorry. They're suggesting to you. Uh-huh. Anyway, keep going. So, to you. Uh-huh. Anyway, keep going. So, to you. Uh-huh. Anyway, keep going. So, yeah, the algorithm's a reflection of yeah, the algorithm's a reflection of yeah, the algorithm's a reflection of you. you. you. >> [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> But the thing I I'm seeing with the >> But the thing I I'm seeing with the >> But the thing I I'm seeing with the algorithm, I I was talking with a a a algorithm, I I was talking with a a a algorithm, I I was talking with a a a mutual friend of mutual friend of mutual friend of the other day. Just I won't say who it the other day. Just I won't say who it the other day. Just I won't say who it was just cuz of the conversation. But I was just cuz of the conversation. But I was just cuz of the conversation. But I I was talking with him about this, and I was talking with him about this, and I was talking with him about this, and I'm going I'm going I'm going the algorithm rewards controversy, the algorithm rewards controversy, the algorithm rewards controversy, and it rewards um and it rewards um and it rewards um it re conflict and controversy. it re conflict and controversy. it re conflict and controversy. And And if you are trying to win on And And if you are trying to win on And And if you are trying to win on social media at all costs, and you're social media at all costs, and you're social media at all costs, and you're going like especially if you like this going like especially if you like this going like especially if you like this is a this is a thing is a this is a thing is a this is a thing I literally just had a conversation with I literally just had a conversation with I literally just had a conversation with the girl who helps run my social media the girl who helps run my social media the girl who helps run my social media the other day. I was like, "I will not the other day. I was like, "I will not the other day. I was like, "I will not do this." Like she wasn't pushing me to. do this." Like she wasn't pushing me to. do this." Like she wasn't pushing me to. I was just like I was just going I was just like I was just going I was just like I was just going I just want to be so careful. Like I I just want to be so careful. Like I I just want to be so careful. Like I will not will not will not >> how to grow your following. You know how >> how to grow your following. You know how >> how to grow your following. You know how to double it overnight, right?

to double it overnight, right? to double it overnight, right? >> This person I was talking to you said, >> This person I was talking to you said, >> This person I was talking to you said, "You know how we how I could grow my "You know how we how I could grow my "You know how we how I could grow my like" And they already have a large like" And they already have a large like" And they already have a large following. They said, "I could, you following. They said, "I could, you following. They said, "I could, you know, synthesize to some of our other know, synthesize to some of our other know, synthesize to some of our other mutual friends." He goes, "is He goes, mutual friends." He goes, "is He goes, mutual friends." He goes, "is He goes, "I just be a a butt hole." Yeah. You "I just be a a butt hole." Yeah. You "I just be a a butt hole." Yeah. You know? He goes, "That's how I could do know? He goes, "That's how I could do know? He goes, "That's how I could do Here's why Luke LeFever is wrong on Yes. Here's why Luke LeFever is wrong on Yes. Here's why Luke LeFever is wrong on Yes. I'm going to get 10,000 followers. And I'm going to get 10,000 followers. And I'm going to get 10,000 followers. And you can do Here's why Carey Nieuwhof is you can do Here's why Carey Nieuwhof is you can do Here's why Carey Nieuwhof is out to lunch and doesn't understand out to lunch and doesn't understand out to lunch and doesn't understand church trends. That would grow your church trends. That would grow your church trends. That would grow your follower base like that. follower base like that. follower base like that. >> Do the do the constant reaction video >> Do the do the constant reaction video >> Do the do the constant reaction video things where it's like quick quick hot things where it's like quick quick hot things where it's like quick quick hot take You'd have the little video at the take You'd have the little video at the take You'd have the little video at the beginning, and it's a quick hot take, beginning, and it's a quick hot take, beginning, and it's a quick hot take, and I'm like extremely unpastoral. And and I'm like extremely unpastoral. And and I'm like extremely unpastoral. And I'm like, are you like this person that I'm like, are you like this person that I'm like, are you like this person that you're critiquing? I'm like, and you're you're critiquing? I'm like, and you're you're critiquing? I'm like, and you're making like I guarantee you you're never making like I guarantee you you're never making like I guarantee you you're never going to reach a single one of those going to reach a single one of those going to reach a single one of those people from that community that you just people from that community that you just people from that community that you just blasted. blasted. blasted. >> Unless you're affirming them. Like, >> Unless you're affirming them. Like, >> Unless you're affirming them. Like, "Hey, when Luke said this, this is "Hey, when Luke said this, this is "Hey, when Luke said this, this is awesome." But that doesn't go viral. awesome." But that doesn't go viral. awesome." But that doesn't go viral. >> Yes. No, it doesn't go viral. And And >> Yes. No, it doesn't go viral. And And >> Yes. No, it doesn't go viral. And And whether it's or And a big part of it is whether it's or And a big part of it is whether it's or And a big part of it is right now, I think the temptation is to right now, I think the temptation is to right now, I think the temptation is to I don't know. I'm going to get canceled. I don't know. I'm going to get canceled. I don't know. I'm going to get canceled. No, it's okay. Maybe we cut this out No, it's okay. Maybe we cut this out No, it's okay. Maybe we cut this out later. I don't know. But you But later. I don't know. But you But later. I don't know. But you But This is the part you want to show.

This is the part you want to show. This is the part you want to show. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> It's clickbait. It frustrates me right >> It's clickbait. It frustrates me right >> It's clickbait. It frustrates me right now. I'm reading Billy Graham's now. I'm reading Billy Graham's now. I'm reading Billy Graham's biography um biography um biography um A Prophet With Honor. A Prophet With Honor. A Prophet With Honor. And he majorly politically pigeonholed And he majorly politically pigeonholed And he majorly politically pigeonholed himself early in his ministry. himself early in his ministry. himself early in his ministry. And it majorly bit him in the butt um And it majorly bit him in the butt um And it majorly bit him in the butt um further in. And he's like, "I'm I'm not further in. And he's like, "I'm I'm not further in. And he's like, "I'm I'm not going to do that." And going to do that." And going to do that." And the thing with the algorithm the thing with the algorithm the thing with the algorithm and [snorts] and [snorts] and [snorts] I'm probably going to Who knows? People I'm probably going to Who knows? People I'm probably going to Who knows? People might come for me on this. I don't know. might come for me on this. I don't know. might come for me on this. I don't know. But I'm just going It It is trying to But I'm just going It It is trying to But I'm just going It It is trying to get you get you get you to not winsomely reach people. It's to not winsomely reach people. It's to not winsomely reach people. It's trying to get you to be a sharp stick in trying to get you to be a sharp stick in trying to get you to be a sharp stick in the eye butt hole. Like to to be a jerk the eye butt hole. Like to to be a jerk the eye butt hole. Like to to be a jerk because your base is going to share because your base is going to share because your base is going to share that. And then it gives you the dopamine that. And then it gives you the dopamine that. And then it gives you the dopamine release of Oh, that's what gets shared. release of Oh, that's what gets shared. release of Oh, that's what gets shared. That's what's working. And then the way That's what's working. And then the way That's what's working. And then the way you you grow your social media following you you grow your social media following you you grow your social media following is you figure out what's working, and is you figure out what's working, and is you figure out what's working, and you replicate it. And it is taking you you replicate it. And it is taking you you replicate it. And it is taking you It's going boom boom pushing you further It's going boom boom pushing you further It's going boom boom pushing you further and further and further and further into and further and further and further into and further and further and further into the rabbit hole on the super far end of the rabbit hole on the super far end of the rabbit hole on the super far end of whatever spectrum.

whatever spectrum. whatever spectrum. And it it And it's just it's hurt I And it it And it's just it's hurt I And it it And it's just it's hurt I think it's hurting us. And I think it's think it's hurting us. And I think it's think it's hurting us. And I think it's going to majorly hurt us when going to majorly hurt us when going to majorly hurt us when um um um the political winds of this you know, of the political winds of this you know, of the political winds of this you know, of the country shift at some point. And I the country shift at some point. And I the country shift at some point. And I am not saying in any way to back down on am not saying in any way to back down on am not saying in any way to back down on what is true and what is right and what is true and what is right and what is true and what is right and injustice and un and [clears throat] injustice and un and [clears throat] injustice and un and [clears throat] unrighteous. Like unrighteous. Like unrighteous. Like I don't think anybody that follows me I don't think anybody that follows me I don't think anybody that follows me would think that I would be saying that. would think that I would be saying that. would think that I would be saying that. But But if if you have But But if if you have But But if if you have just just just you're just being a jerk. It's like in you're just being a jerk. It's like in you're just being a jerk. It's like in order because because the algorithm order because because the algorithm order because because the algorithm is it's like it's training you like is it's like it's training you like is it's like it's training you like Pavlov's dog, you know? It's like where Pavlov's dog, you know? It's like where Pavlov's dog, you know? It's like where it's like the he would ring the bell, it's like the he would ring the bell, it's like the he would ring the bell, and his dog would automatically start to and his dog would automatically start to and his dog would automatically start to salivate. It's like salivate. It's like salivate. It's like that's that's all social media is. It's that's that's all social media is. It's that's that's all social media is. It's going, "You got the dopamine release going, "You got the dopamine release going, "You got the dopamine release from a million person from a million person from a million person video where you were a jerk. And now video where you were a jerk. And now video where you were a jerk. And now you're going, "I'm going to repeat it you're going, "I'm going to repeat it you're going, "I'm going to repeat it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over." And it's pushing us to spectrums. over." And it's pushing us to spectrums. over." And it's pushing us to spectrums. And that is driving me nuts right now And that is driving me nuts right now And that is driving me nuts right now with the algorithm. with the algorithm. with the algorithm. But But But That is the code. What do you see the That is the code. What do you see the That is the code. What do you see the algorithm doing, Daniel? Polarization.

algorithm doing, Daniel? Polarization. algorithm doing, Daniel? Polarization. That's the biggest way I can I could say That's the biggest way I can I could say That's the biggest way I can I could say it. You could say the same thing, but it. You could say the same thing, but it. You could say the same thing, but say it meaner. say it meaner. say it meaner. You know? Get more views. Say You know? Get more views. Say You know? Get more views. Say Say truth. Yeah. But if you say it Say truth. Yeah. But if you say it Say truth. Yeah. But if you say it more harsh, more blunt Making fun of more harsh, more blunt Making fun of more harsh, more blunt Making fun of people. people. people. >> make fun of people, whatever it is. Just >> make fun of people, whatever it is. Just >> make fun of people, whatever it is. Just you know, provoking. But ultimately you know, provoking. But ultimately you know, provoking. But ultimately uh uh uh it's bringing polarization. it's bringing polarization. it's bringing polarization. Um I think it's kind of what we're Um I think it's kind of what we're Um I think it's kind of what we're seeing here. seeing here. seeing here. >> What do you think that does to your >> What do you think that does to your >> What do you think that does to your soul? You know, yeah. I I feel so moved soul? You know, yeah. I I feel so moved soul? You know, yeah. I I feel so moved by this right now. I was not even by this right now. I was not even by this right now. I was not even expecting to feel moved by this. I know expecting to feel moved by this. I know expecting to feel moved by this. I know there's a lot of pastors listening, like there's a lot of pastors listening, like there's a lot of pastors listening, like influential people listening. I'm just influential people listening. I'm just influential people listening. I'm just going going going Jesus would not do that. Jesus would not do that. Jesus would not do that. I don't know why it's making me so I don't know why it's making me so I don't know why it's making me so emotional right now. It's just emotional right now. It's just emotional right now. It's just frustrating me. I'm going like frustrating me. I'm going like frustrating me. I'm going like he would not do that. And it In no way. Not standing for what And it In no way. Not standing for what is true and what is righteous. I'm like, is true and what is righteous. I'm like, is true and what is righteous. I'm like, I have a a I have a a I have a a I feel like I was born a zealot like for I feel like I was born a zealot like for I feel like I was born a zealot like for righteousness, you know? And I'm like, I righteousness, you know? And I'm like, I righteousness, you know? And I'm like, I feel it. feel it. feel it. But I'm like But I'm like But I'm like he's never he's never he's never he he's not going to to make fun of he he's not going to to make fun of he he's not going to to make fun of people, trample over people, and be a people, trample over people, and be a people, trample over people, and be a jerk to people. Like he loves people.

jerk to people. Like he loves people. jerk to people. Like he loves people. And And there's a way to call people And And there's a way to call people And And there's a way to call people into righteousness and holiness and into righteousness and holiness and into righteousness and holiness and truth without being a jerk. And I just truth without being a jerk. And I just truth without being a jerk. And I just feel like it's it's grieving the spirit feel like it's it's grieving the spirit feel like it's it's grieving the spirit of God because the algorithm becomes of God because the algorithm becomes of God because the algorithm becomes your God when you do that. Yeah. your God when you do that. Yeah. your God when you do that. Yeah. >> you are no longer posting in response to >> you are no longer posting in response to >> you are no longer posting in response to what you have prayed and asked God to what you have prayed and asked God to what you have prayed and asked God to post about of going, "Jesus, what are post about of going, "Jesus, what are post about of going, "Jesus, what are you asking me to say that will serve you asking me to say that will serve you asking me to say that will serve these people?" You are serving the these people?" You are serving the these people?" You are serving the algorithm. algorithm. algorithm. And And it had you have enthroned it And And it had you have enthroned it And And it had you have enthroned it over your life, and you are going, "I over your life, and you are going, "I over your life, and you are going, "I will I will do what the algorithm will I will do what the algorithm will I will do what the algorithm rewards, not what the spirit of God rewards, not what the spirit of God rewards, not what the spirit of God rewards." Which And his reward looks rewards." Which And his reward looks rewards." Which And his reward looks very different. very different. very different. When you preach that, how do you think When you preach that, how do you think When you preach that, how do you think your generation responds to that? your generation responds to that? your generation responds to that? Or have you? I haven't preached that. Or have you? I haven't preached that. Or have you? I haven't preached that. Yeah. I think it I think it needs to be Yeah. I think it I think it needs to be Yeah. I think it I think it needs to be preached. I think they would eat it up, preached. I think they would eat it up, preached. I think they would eat it up, though. I mean, I think that's That's a though. I mean, I think that's That's a though. I mean, I think that's That's a disparity to disparity. disparity to disparity. disparity to disparity. Tell me how it is. They want that. Tell me how it is. They want that. Tell me how it is. They want that. They'd be like, "I'm on it. Done." I They'd be like, "I'm on it. Done." I They'd be like, "I'm on it. Done." I wish I wish my generation cuz I've seen wish I wish my generation cuz I've seen wish I wish my generation cuz I've seen people jump on that bandwagon. people jump on that bandwagon. people jump on that bandwagon. Uh you know, and we have that discussion Uh you know, and we have that discussion Uh you know, and we have that discussion internally, things we will and will not internally, things we will and will not internally, things we will and will not do with our social media. Because you're do with our social media. Because you're do with our social media. Because you're right. To grow a platform these days it right. To grow a platform these days it right. To grow a platform these days it is so easy just to compromise your soul.

is so easy just to compromise your soul. is so easy just to compromise your soul. Even if it's 10%. Even if it's 10%. Even if it's 10%. >> Yes. Little bit of time. >> Yes. Little bit of time. >> Yes. Little bit of time. >> Is like 10% today becomes 20% tomorrow >> Is like 10% today becomes 20% tomorrow >> Is like 10% today becomes 20% tomorrow becomes You're unrecognizable in 5 becomes You're unrecognizable in 5 becomes You're unrecognizable in 5 years. years. years. >> don't even know who you are. >> don't even know who you are. >> don't even know who you are. >> Who you are. >> Who you are. >> Who you are. >> you got to get up and do the dog and >> you got to get up and do the dog and >> you got to get up and do the dog and pony show pony show pony show every day and you got to be the mean every day and you got to be the mean every day and you got to be the mean guy. You have to be the jerk. You have guy. You have to be the jerk. You have guy. You have to be the jerk. You have to be the outrageous person. to be the outrageous person. to be the outrageous person. >> build it, how you sustain it. But you >> build it, how you sustain it. But you >> build it, how you sustain it. But you know what? And I I hopefully I mean we know what? And I I hopefully I mean we know what? And I I hopefully I mean we don't do everything perfectly on this don't do everything perfectly on this don't do everything perfectly on this channel. But here's what I love. Get to channel. But here's what I love. Get to channel. But here's what I love. Get to have long meaningful conversations. have long meaningful conversations. have long meaningful conversations. That's cool. And occasionally people That's cool. And occasionally people That's cool. And occasionally people watch. Like that's really watch. Like that's really watch. Like that's really few people do. Yeah. few people do. Yeah. few people do. Yeah. >> This is so rich and >> This is so rich and >> This is so rich and thank you so much for thank you so much for thank you so much for helping me helping me helping me helping the people who follow the helping the people who follow the helping the people who follow the podcast podcast podcast figure out what's really the heart and figure out what's really the heart and figure out what's really the heart and you're not alone. Like you know, I was you're not alone. Like you know, I was you're not alone. Like you know, I was joking. You speak for a generation. joking. You speak for a generation. joking. You speak for a generation. >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> [laughter] >> Nobody does. But this is a beautiful >> Nobody does. But this is a beautiful >> Nobody does. But this is a beautiful sampling. sampling. sampling. And we're going to have more and more And we're going to have more and more And we're going to have more and more young leaders on this podcast and I just young leaders on this podcast and I just young leaders on this podcast and I just want to thank you both so much. Thank want to thank you both so much. Thank want to thank you both so much. Thank you for answering the call when you were you for answering the call when you were you for answering the call when you were young. Thank you for young. Thank you for young. Thank you for um the contribution that you're making.

um the contribution that you're making. um the contribution that you're making. And thank you for just being so And thank you for just being so And thank you for just being so transparent transparent transparent and open in this conversation. You've and open in this conversation. You've and open in this conversation. You've really helped me learn and grow. And uh really helped me learn and grow. And uh really helped me learn and grow. And uh I I just think we need to throw the keys I I just think we need to throw the keys I I just think we need to throw the keys to your generation a little more to your generation a little more to your generation a little more um um um earlier and more wholeheartedly than earlier and more wholeheartedly than earlier and more wholeheartedly than perhaps we have been. perhaps we have been. perhaps we have been. So if people want to follow you and So if people want to follow you and So if people want to follow you and connect with you online, Daniel, where's connect with you online, Daniel, where's connect with you online, Daniel, where's the best place the best place the best place for you and then Luke for you? Yeah, for you and then Luke for you? Yeah, for you and then Luke for you? Yeah, well first I want to say thank you. well first I want to say thank you. well first I want to say thank you. Thank you for Thank you for Thank you for making space and making space and making space and being a voice to churches and leaders being a voice to churches and leaders being a voice to churches and leaders and and and our generation and multi-generational. our generation and multi-generational. our generation and multi-generational. It's huge and we need conversations like It's huge and we need conversations like It's huge and we need conversations like this. And so this. And so this. And so thank you for really leading the way in thank you for really leading the way in thank you for really leading the way in that. Yeah, it's a real honor. that. Yeah, it's a real honor. that. Yeah, it's a real honor. And yeah, and yeah, anyways. But And yeah, and yeah, anyways. But And yeah, and yeah, anyways. But um um um What were you asking? Uh where people What were you asking? Uh where people What were you asking? Uh where people can find you on the socials or internet can find you on the socials or internet can find you on the socials or internet or wherever you're camping these days. or wherever you're camping these days. or wherever you're camping these days. Um socials Daniel D. McCloud for Um socials Daniel D. McCloud for Um socials Daniel D. McCloud for Instagram. Um but our organization is Instagram. Um but our organization is Instagram. Um but our organization is called Jesus Mission Global. So Jesus called Jesus Mission Global. So Jesus called Jesus Mission Global. So Jesus Mission Mission Mission uh {dot} global [email protected].

uh {dot} global [email protected]. uh {dot} global [email protected]. So um See you there and most active on um See you there and most active on Instagram? Active on Instagram, yeah. Um Instagram? Active on Instagram, yeah. Um Instagram? Active on Instagram, yeah. Um yeah, I just want to echo Daniel first yeah, I just want to echo Daniel first yeah, I just want to echo Daniel first though and just say really grateful for though and just say really grateful for though and just say really grateful for you, Carey. I ran into Noah Herrin this you, Carey. I ran into Noah Herrin this you, Carey. I ran into Noah Herrin this morning and we were both just talking morning and we were both just talking morning and we were both just talking about how we're really grateful for the about how we're really grateful for the about how we're really grateful for the way that you love and serve our way that you love and serve our way that you love and serve our generation. And he was talking about how generation. And he was talking about how generation. And he was talking about how you showed up have been showing up at you showed up have been showing up at you showed up have been showing up at Way and he said he said um he's like it Way and he said he said um he's like it Way and he said he said um he's like it was amazing to watch how giddy Carey was was amazing to watch how giddy Carey was was amazing to watch how giddy Carey was at seeing the young people how many at seeing the young people how many at seeing the young people how many young people there were in our church. young people there were in our church. young people there were in our church. And he said he said I want to be like And he said he said I want to be like And he said he said I want to be like that. He's like when I'm in that stage that. He's like when I'm in that stage that. He's like when I'm in that stage of life is Carey. He's like I I hope I'm of life is Carey. He's like I I hope I'm of life is Carey. He's like I I hope I'm as excited as Carey is. He was just as excited as Carey is. He was just as excited as Carey is. He was just about seeing young people in church. I I about seeing young people in church. I I about seeing young people in church. I I Tony and I on the drive home from Way Tony and I on the drive home from Way Tony and I on the drive home from Way Church back to Franklin Church back to Franklin Church back to Franklin we're just going on and on about how we're just going on and on about how we're just going on and on about how joyful we are and how happy that makes joyful we are and how happy that makes joyful we are and how happy that makes us. Wow. It's just such a joy us. Wow. It's just such a joy us. Wow. It's just such a joy uh cuz you know, I remember when I was uh cuz you know, I remember when I was uh cuz you know, I remember when I was your age your age your age I remember the change I wanted to make I remember the change I wanted to make I remember the change I wanted to make in the church.

in the church. in the church. But just to be able to see a generation But just to be able to see a generation But just to be able to see a generation on fire for Christ and really on fire for Christ and really on fire for Christ and really worshipping worshipping worshipping like to me you get to a certain stage of like to me you get to a certain stage of like to me you get to a certain stage of life where you're just there you're life where you're just there you're life where you're just there you're there to be the applause in the there to be the applause in the there to be the applause in the background little bit of wind under background little bit of wind under background little bit of wind under people's wings. Like that's where I see people's wings. Like that's where I see people's wings. Like that's where I see my role. my role. my role. Well, thank you. Well, thank you. Well, thank you. >> want to be the best or what is it? You >> want to be the best or what is it? You >> want to be the best or what is it? You want to go 10 better? want to go 10 better? want to go 10 better? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Ooh, I I know Nikki. I haven't heard >> Ooh, I I know Nikki. I haven't heard >> Ooh, I I know Nikki. I haven't heard that before. That's like I I need grow that before. That's like I I need grow that before. That's like I I need grow 10 better. It's good. Well, you're you 10 better. It's good. Well, you're you 10 better. It's good. Well, you're you are such a gift to us and just thank you are such a gift to us and just thank you are such a gift to us and just thank you for the way that like you have for the way that like you have for the way that like you have recklessly believed in us you know, recklessly believed in us you know, recklessly believed in us you know, platforming us. The and I think the one platforming us. The and I think the one platforming us. The and I think the one of the things I take away and like for of the things I take away and like for of the things I take away and like for those watching of like man how do I do those watching of like man how do I do those watching of like man how do I do this for younger leaders? I think Carey this for younger leaders? I think Carey this for younger leaders? I think Carey you're a great example of just like you're a great example of just like you're a great example of just like people watching you and emulating you. people watching you and emulating you. people watching you and emulating you. Um I think about when we sit down to Um I think about when we sit down to Um I think about when we sit down to talk you're genuinely curious. Like talk you're genuinely curious. Like talk you're genuinely curious. Like you're asking me questions like oh he he you're asking me questions like oh he he you're asking me questions like oh he he actually cares. He actually wants to actually cares. He actually wants to actually cares. He actually wants to know what I have to say. And that pulls know what I have to say. And that pulls know what I have to say. And that pulls that pulls it out of me. I'm like that pulls it out of me. I'm like that pulls it out of me. I'm like Carey wants me to do anything I'll do it Carey wants me to do anything I'll do it Carey wants me to do anything I'll do it cuz he cuz he can't [laughter] like cuz cuz he cuz he can't [laughter] like cuz cuz he cuz he can't [laughter] like cuz he cares. Like he cares, he cares. Like he cares, he cares. Like he cares, I do. I'm very passionate about it and I I do. I'm very passionate about it and I I do. I'm very passionate about it and I mean one of the mantras is just be mean one of the mantras is just be mean one of the mantras is just be curious. Be curious and learning happens curious. Be curious and learning happens curious. Be curious and learning happens in both directions, right? I got a in both directions, right? I got a in both directions, right? I got a couple things I can share with you but couple things I can share with you but couple things I can share with you but man, I'm learning so much from my sons man, I'm learning so much from my sons man, I'm learning so much from my sons from you from so many others in your from you from so many others in your from you from so many others in your generation. Like just pull out the generation. Like just pull out the generation. Like just pull out the notebook.

notebook. notebook. So good. So again cuz you're not very So good. So again cuz you're not very So good. So again cuz you're not very self-promoting. Uh the consecrated self-promoting. Uh the consecrated self-promoting. Uh the consecrated newsletter all things Luke LeFevre, newsletter all things Luke LeFevre, newsletter all things Luke LeFevre, where would we find those these days? where would we find those these days? where would we find those these days? >> Instagram's where I'm most often at just >> Instagram's where I'm most often at just >> Instagram's where I'm most often at just Luke_lefevre on Instagram and then Luke_lefevre on Instagram and then Luke_lefevre on Instagram and then lukelefevre.org not {dot} com {dot} org lukelefevre.org not {dot} com {dot} org lukelefevre.org not {dot} com {dot} org and then yeah every Friday I send out a and then yeah every Friday I send out a and then yeah every Friday I send out a newsletter of just encouragement to the newsletter of just encouragement to the newsletter of just encouragement to the church. And the website takes you there. church. And the website takes you there. church. And the website takes you there. Yeah, just go to lukelefevre.org and Yeah, just go to lukelefevre.org and Yeah, just go to lukelefevre.org and that button at the top right. that button at the top right. that button at the top right. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Also, we're starting a podcast. Oh yeah, Also, we're starting a podcast. Oh yeah, Also, we're starting a podcast. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. We we we've been talking yeah, yeah. We we we've been talking yeah, yeah. We we we've been talking about that. Yes. So have you got about that. Yes. So have you got about that. Yes. So have you got anything to announce yet? We have the anything to announce yet? We have the anything to announce yet? We have the name. We have the name. It's going to be name. We have the name. It's going to be name. We have the name. It's going to be >> What's it called? What I wish I knew. >> What's it called? What I wish I knew. >> What's it called? What I wish I knew. Yeah, that's such a great name. I Yeah, that's such a great name. I Yeah, that's such a great name. I remember that. remember that. remember that. >> So we're wanting to >> So we're wanting to >> So we're wanting to >> Coming soon. Coming soon. So we're >> Coming soon. Coming soon. So we're >> Coming soon. Coming soon. So we're excited about that. Coming soon to a excited about that. Coming soon to a excited about that. Coming soon to a YouTube channel near you. That's right. YouTube channel near you. That's right. YouTube channel near you. That's right. All right. Thanks, guys. All right, All right. Thanks, guys. All right, All right. Thanks, guys. All right, thank you. Well, I hope you found that thank you. Well, I hope you found that thank you. Well, I hope you found that as riveting as I did. I absolutely love as riveting as I did. I absolutely love as riveting as I did. I absolutely love that conversation. We've got more coming that conversation. We've got more coming that conversation. We've got more coming up. We sit down with another kind of up. We sit down with another kind of up. We sit down with another kind of next gen influencer, Ruslan KD. And if next gen influencer, Ruslan KD. And if next gen influencer, Ruslan KD. And if you wherever you're watching, wherever you wherever you're watching, wherever you wherever you're watching, wherever you're listening, if you haven't you're listening, if you haven't you're listening, if you haven't subscribed yet, that's one of the subscribed yet, that's one of the subscribed yet, that's one of the kindest things you could do. Just hit kindest things you could do. Just hit kindest things you could do. Just hit follow, just hit subscribe. And then follow, just hit subscribe. And then follow, just hit subscribe. And then you'll get everything I've been you'll get everything I've been you'll get everything I've been mentioning. You know, Spotify just mentioning. You know, Spotify just mentioning. You know, Spotify just introduced this thing. I was talking introduced this thing. I was talking introduced this thing. I was talking with other podcasters and they're like, with other podcasters and they're like, with other podcasters and they're like, you know, what about your audio you know, what about your audio you know, what about your audio audience, the people who listen versus audience, the people who listen versus audience, the people who listen versus the people who watch? Well, the really the people who watch? Well, the really the people who watch? Well, the really cool thing is if you access this on cool thing is if you access this on cool thing is if you access this on Spotify now, you can do both seamlessly.

Spotify now, you can do both seamlessly. Spotify now, you can do both seamlessly. So you can listen at your desk uh you So you can listen at your desk uh you So you can listen at your desk uh you know, and in the car and then pick it up know, and in the car and then pick it up know, and in the car and then pick it up if you want to watch later. It never if you want to watch later. It never if you want to watch later. It never forgets. It's cool feature. So check it forgets. It's cool feature. So check it forgets. It's cool feature. So check it out on Spotify. Uh was rolled out out on Spotify. Uh was rolled out out on Spotify. Uh was rolled out initially to premium users. initially to premium users. initially to premium users. Uh I think it's going broadband really Uh I think it's going broadband really Uh I think it's going broadband really soon. Coming up on the next episode as I soon. Coming up on the next episode as I soon. Coming up on the next episode as I said, Ruslan KD, also John Mark Comer, said, Ruslan KD, also John Mark Comer, said, Ruslan KD, also John Mark Comer, Les McKeown, John Crist, Henry Cloud, Les McKeown, John Crist, Henry Cloud, Les McKeown, John Crist, Henry Cloud, Patrick Lencioni, Craig Rochelle, Beth Patrick Lencioni, Craig Rochelle, Beth Patrick Lencioni, Craig Rochelle, Beth Moore Moore Moore and a whole lot more. This is a pretty and a whole lot more. This is a pretty and a whole lot more. This is a pretty loaded year. And we got more on church loaded year. And we got more on church loaded year. And we got more on church trends, too. So remember you can go to trends, too. So remember you can go to trends, too. So remember you can go to 2026churchtrends.com 2026churchtrends.com 2026churchtrends.com if you want more and join the thousands if you want more and join the thousands if you want more and join the thousands of leaders who are having a really of leaders who are having a really of leaders who are having a really productive and helpful discussion with productive and helpful discussion with productive and helpful discussion with their teams on this inside my Art of their teams on this inside my Art of their teams on this inside my Art of Leadership Academy. Thanks for Leadership Academy. Thanks for Leadership Academy. Thanks for listening. If the conversation was listening. If the conversation was listening. If the conversation was helpful, leave a review or comment and I helpful, leave a review or comment and I helpful, leave a review or comment and I hope our time together today hope our time together today hope our time together today helped you identify and break a growth helped you identify and break a growth helped you identify and break a growth barrier you're facing.