Lysa Terkeurst Shares Her BEST Advice for Recovering from Betrayal

I'm so exhausted personally I'm so exhausted personally professionally I'm I'm growing so professionally I'm I'm growing so professionally I'm I'm growing so skeptical I feel like then the when is skeptical I feel like then the when is skeptical I feel like then the when is the shoe going to drop even with my best the shoe going to drop even with my best the shoe going to drop even with my best of best friends like are they all of best friends like are they all of best friends like are they all eventually gonna betray me is is trust eventually gonna betray me is is trust eventually gonna betray me is is trust just a Fool's game welcome to the car just a Fool's game welcome to the car just a Fool's game welcome to the car newoff leadership podcast on YouTube newoff leadership podcast on YouTube newoff leadership podcast on YouTube it's so good to have you here hey if it's so good to have you here hey if it's so good to have you here hey if it's your first time make sure you it's your first time make sure you it's your first time make sure you subscribe just click the button and subscribe just click the button and subscribe just click the button and you'll never miss an episode today we've you'll never miss an episode today we've you'll never miss an episode today we've got Lisa turkers if you've ever wondered got Lisa turkers if you've ever wondered got Lisa turkers if you've ever wondered what the red flags are that show you what the red flags are that show you what the red flags are that show you can't trust somebody you've come to the can't trust somebody you've come to the can't trust somebody you've come to the right place cuz that's what we talk right place cuz that's what we talk right place cuz that's what we talk about and today's episode is brought to about and today's episode is brought to about and today's episode is brought to you by Convoy of hope so whether it's you by Convoy of hope so whether it's you by Convoy of hope so whether it's organizing an event or supporting organizing an event or supporting organizing an event or supporting families in need Convoy wants to find a families in need Convoy wants to find a families in need Convoy wants to find a way to reignite a love in your church way to reignite a love in your church way to reignite a love in your church for compassion Ministry you can partner for compassion Ministry you can partner for compassion Ministry you can partner with them at convoy. carry and click with them at convoy. carry and click with them at convoy. carry and click that link to learn more as well and it's that link to learn more as well and it's that link to learn more as well and it's also brought to you by Glue connect with also brought to you by Glue connect with also brought to you by Glue connect with the people in your church by using free the people in your church by using free the people in your church by using free texting provided by Glue you can visit texting provided by Glue you can visit texting provided by Glue you can visit glue. usfree texting and begin texting glue. usfree texting and begin texting glue. usfree texting and begin texting today and now my conversation with Lisa today and now my conversation with Lisa today and now my conversation with Lisa turkers Lisa it's good to chat again turkers Lisa it's good to chat again turkers Lisa it's good to chat again thank you so much Carrie I always love thank you so much Carrie I always love thank you so much Carrie I always love looking at my calendar and seeing the looking at my calendar and seeing the looking at my calendar and seeing the name Carrie newoff on my schedule so name Carrie newoff on my schedule so name Carrie newoff on my schedule so today's a great day well it's mutual and today's a great day well it's mutual and today's a great day well it's mutual and like a lot of leaders you have been like a lot of leaders you have been like a lot of leaders you have been through a lot over the last few years a through a lot over the last few years a through a lot over the last few years a lot of really deep personal pain you've lot of really deep personal pain you've lot of really deep personal pain you've had some painful friendships break up

had some painful friendships break up had some painful friendships break up that you allude to in your new book The that you allude to in your new book The that you allude to in your new book The Death of your marriage other devastating Death of your marriage other devastating Death of your marriage other devastating betrayals uh I know that's a heavy place betrayals uh I know that's a heavy place betrayals uh I know that's a heavy place to start but you're going to have the to start but you're going to have the to start but you're going to have the attention of every leader listening attention of every leader listening attention of every leader listening because if you've LED for more than 10 because if you've LED for more than 10 because if you've LED for more than 10 minutes you probably had a betrayal of minutes you probably had a betrayal of minutes you probably had a betrayal of trust you probably had somebody that you trust you probably had somebody that you trust you probably had somebody that you counted on who let you down and there's counted on who let you down and there's counted on who let you down and there's a lot of people listening to this a lot of people listening to this a lot of people listening to this podcast who are like I don't know if I podcast who are like I don't know if I podcast who are like I don't know if I can do it anymore can you just narrate can do it anymore can you just narrate can do it anymore can you just narrate some of the difficulties and heart some of the difficulties and heart some of the difficulties and heart breaks you've been through over the last breaks you've been through over the last breaks you've been through over the last number of years to the level that you're number of years to the level that you're number of years to the level that you're comfortable comfortable comfortable disclosing absolutely well I was just disclosing absolutely well I was just disclosing absolutely well I was just processing yesterday the layers of what processing yesterday the layers of what processing yesterday the layers of what happens when a betrayal occurs and so happens when a betrayal occurs and so happens when a betrayal occurs and so I'll walk through these layers and then I'll walk through these layers and then I'll walk through these layers and then I'll kind of personalize it so you can I'll kind of personalize it so you can I'll kind of personalize it so you can see so the first layer of a betrayal is see so the first layer of a betrayal is see so the first layer of a betrayal is when you know something's off but you when you know something's off but you when you know something's off but you can't figure out what is off you're can't figure out what is off you're can't figure out what is off you're having a discernment that there's like a having a discernment that there's like a having a discernment that there's like a warning signal but the discernment isn't warning signal but the discernment isn't warning signal but the discernment isn't giving you details and here's where it giving you details and here's where it giving you details and here's where it gets a little complicated for Christians gets a little complicated for Christians gets a little complicated for Christians is that we want to believe the best and is that we want to believe the best and is that we want to believe the best and it almost feels biblical like believe it almost feels biblical like believe it almost feels biblical like believe the best about this person Speak Life the best about this person Speak Life the best about this person Speak Life into this person those things are really into this person those things are really into this person those things are really really good but it can be complicated really good but it can be complicated really good but it can be complicated when your heart wants to very much when your heart wants to very much when your heart wants to very much believe the best but your head is believe the best but your head is believe the best but your head is picking up on warning signs and so those picking up on warning signs and so those picking up on warning signs and so those two can come into conflict so the first two can come into conflict so the first two can come into conflict so the first layer is is that slow growth of a layer is is that slow growth of a layer is is that slow growth of a betrayal like you fear something's off

betrayal like you fear something's off betrayal like you fear something's off but you don't want to really acknowledge but you don't want to really acknowledge but you don't want to really acknowledge all that you're seeing or you just can't all that you're seeing or you just can't all that you're seeing or you just can't figure it out the second layer is where figure it out the second layer is where figure it out the second layer is where it's the big shock that's where either it's the big shock that's where either it's the big shock that's where either you've discovered that there's a you've discovered that there's a you've discovered that there's a betrayal or there's a disclosure that betrayal or there's a disclosure that betrayal or there's a disclosure that there's a betrayal and so in my there's a betrayal and so in my there's a betrayal and so in my situation there was a discovery I always situation there was a discovery I always situation there was a discovery I always like to tell people Discovery is worse like to tell people Discovery is worse like to tell people Discovery is worse than disclosure both of them if someone than disclosure both of them if someone than disclosure both of them if someone discloses a betrayal it's still shocking discloses a betrayal it's still shocking discloses a betrayal it's still shocking but the discovery of a betrayal is but the discovery of a betrayal is but the discovery of a betrayal is almost doubly painful because at least almost doubly painful because at least almost doubly painful because at least with a disclosure if the person with a disclosure if the person with a disclosure if the person discloses what they've done at least you discloses what they've done at least you discloses what they've done at least you have a starting point to say hey they have a starting point to say hey they have a starting point to say hey they didn't have to acknowledge what they've didn't have to acknowledge what they've didn't have to acknowledge what they've done but the Lord must be working on done but the Lord must be working on done but the Lord must be working on their heart and there must be enough their heart and there must be enough their heart and there must be enough humility there to where they're humility there to where they're humility there to where they're acknowledging that they recognize I've acknowledging that they recognize I've acknowledging that they recognize I've done this it's wrong I have hurt you done this it's wrong I have hurt you done this it's wrong I have hurt you there's a cost to this and now I I want there's a cost to this and now I I want there's a cost to this and now I I want to and if they're approaching you in to and if they're approaching you in to and if they're approaching you in humility now I want to try to make it humility now I want to try to make it humility now I want to try to make it right right and at least it's relational right right and at least it's relational right right and at least it's relational if they disclose it I'm coming to you to if they disclose it I'm coming to you to if they disclose it I'm coming to you to tell you about something rather than you tell you about something rather than you tell you about something rather than you discovering something on my phone or discovering something on my phone or discovering something on my phone or inbox or whatever exactly and in my inbox or whatever exactly and in my inbox or whatever exactly and in my situation what made it really really situation what made it really really situation what made it really really hard is there was only hard is there was only hard is there was only admission as far as every Discovery I admission as far as every Discovery I admission as far as every Discovery I would make so there was never any would make so there was never any would make so there was never any admission beyond the discovery and it's admission beyond the discovery and it's admission beyond the discovery and it's impossible to build trust that keeps

impossible to build trust that keeps impossible to build trust that keeps getting broken and so there was like getting broken and so there was like getting broken and so there was like Discovery Discovery Discovery Discovery Discovery Discovery Discovery Discovery Discovery Discovery Discovery Discovery and so that was really hard so the and so that was really hard so the and so that was really hard so the second layer of betrayal is the big second layer of betrayal is the big second layer of betrayal is the big shock right the third layer of betrayal shock right the third layer of betrayal shock right the third layer of betrayal is the reaction of the person who's is the reaction of the person who's is the reaction of the person who's betrayed you if they're reaction like we betrayed you if they're reaction like we betrayed you if they're reaction like we just talked about if their reaction is just talked about if their reaction is just talked about if their reaction is humble then there's a much greater humble then there's a much greater humble then there's a much greater chance a much more likely chance that chance a much more likely chance that chance a much more likely chance that that relationship can be repaired if that relationship can be repaired if that relationship can be repaired if their response is immediate their response is immediate their response is immediate defensiveness anger blaming shaming you defensiveness anger blaming shaming you defensiveness anger blaming shaming you calling you crazy denial then that's a calling you crazy denial then that's a calling you crazy denial then that's a really harsh layer it's it's further really harsh layer it's it's further really harsh layer it's it's further deepening the Betrayal right because deepening the Betrayal right because deepening the Betrayal right because it's pretty brutal when someone it's pretty brutal when someone it's pretty brutal when someone gaslights you and says you saw this but gaslights you and says you saw this but gaslights you and says you saw this but what you saw isn't what you really saw what you saw isn't what you really saw what you saw isn't what you really saw and so therefore the issue is that and so therefore the issue is that and so therefore the issue is that you're crazy that's a that's a that you're crazy that's a that's a that you're crazy that's a that's a that that's like a whole another level of that's like a whole another level of that's like a whole another level of deep betrayal the fourth layer then is deep betrayal the fourth layer then is deep betrayal the fourth layer then is the reaction of other the reaction of other the reaction of other people you know this can also determine people you know this can also determine people you know this can also determine how quickly we're going to heal from the how quickly we're going to heal from the how quickly we're going to heal from the Betrayal or not when when you hear other Betrayal or not when when you hear other Betrayal or not when when you hear other people being people being people being sympathetic and and they want to be a sympathetic and and they want to be a sympathetic and and they want to be a help maybe by not adding their own help maybe by not adding their own help maybe by not adding their own commentary but rather praying for you commentary but rather praying for you commentary but rather praying for you supporting you doing what needs to be supporting you doing what needs to be supporting you doing what needs to be done to help you then then that's great done to help you then then that's great done to help you then then that's great but oftentimes the reaction of other but oftentimes the reaction of other but oftentimes the reaction of other people is that they they want to know

people is that they they want to know people is that they they want to know why this happened so that it doesn't why this happened so that it doesn't why this happened so that it doesn't happen to them and that was my happen to them and that was my happen to them and that was my experience I had some lifelong friends experience I had some lifelong friends experience I had some lifelong friends that I thought would be by my side no that I thought would be by my side no that I thought would be by my side no matter what and there was one in matter what and there was one in matter what and there was one in particular when she found out that my particular when she found out that my particular when she found out that my ex-husband was having an affair on me ex-husband was having an affair on me ex-husband was having an affair on me she her immediate response was I think she her immediate response was I think she her immediate response was I think it's because you travel it's because you travel it's because you travel and I think what was happening there is and I think what was happening there is and I think what was happening there is she wanted a reason like her husband she wanted a reason like her husband she wanted a reason like her husband cheated like my husband cheated on me cheated like my husband cheated on me cheated like my husband cheated on me because I traveled and she doesn't because I traveled and she doesn't because I traveled and she doesn't travel so therefore that's a layer of travel so therefore that's a layer of travel so therefore that's a layer of assurance that this same thing won't assurance that this same thing won't assurance that this same thing won't happen to her but that reaction caused happen to her but that reaction caused happen to her but that reaction caused me another layer of grief another layer me another layer of grief another layer me another layer of grief another layer of like great great betrayal the fifth of like great great betrayal the fifth of like great great betrayal the fifth the so we've gone down now we're at the the so we've gone down now we're at the the so we've gone down now we're at the fifth the fifth layer of betrayal is fifth the fifth layer of betrayal is fifth the fifth layer of betrayal is why didn't I see this coming it's almost why didn't I see this coming it's almost why didn't I see this coming it's almost like I feel like I betrayed myself like like I feel like I betrayed myself like like I feel like I betrayed myself like I should have seen this coming when they I should have seen this coming when they I should have seen this coming when they said that in a meeting like I imagine a said that in a meeting like I imagine a said that in a meeting like I imagine a pastor going through this when they said pastor going through this when they said pastor going through this when they said that in the meeting when they put that in the meeting when they put that in the meeting when they put conditions on their generous gift when conditions on their generous gift when conditions on their generous gift when they when I saw them recruiting other they when I saw them recruiting other they when I saw them recruiting other people to support an initiative and people to support an initiative and people to support an initiative and using their influence in incorrect ways using their influence in incorrect ways using their influence in incorrect ways like I should have seen this coming and like I should have seen this coming and like I should have seen this coming and so then you can almost have this other so then you can almost have this other so then you can almost have this other layer of betrayal like I betrayed myself layer of betrayal like I betrayed myself layer of betrayal like I betrayed myself I felt the warning signs but I let my I felt the warning signs but I let my I felt the warning signs but I let my heart override them time and time again heart override them time and time again heart override them time and time again the sixth layer of betrayal which is

the sixth layer of betrayal which is the sixth layer of betrayal which is also something that I faced is feeling a also something that I faced is feeling a also something that I faced is feeling a little bit betrayed by God like God you little bit betrayed by God like God you little bit betrayed by God like God you saw what was going on behind the scenes saw what was going on behind the scenes saw what was going on behind the scenes and you didn't stop it and even now it and you didn't stop it and even now it and you didn't stop it and even now it doesn't feel like you're addressing the doesn't feel like you're addressing the doesn't feel like you're addressing the sin that is causing me so much pain like sin that is causing me so much pain like sin that is causing me so much pain like it feels like the person who hurt me is it feels like the person who hurt me is it feels like the person who hurt me is getting away with it and that can almost getting away with it and that can almost getting away with it and that can almost make you feel betrayed by God so I went make you feel betrayed by God so I went make you feel betrayed by God so I went through all of those and if you relate through all of those and if you relate through all of those and if you relate to any of those whether it's a big to any of those whether it's a big to any of those whether it's a big trauma trust like a betrayal of trauma trust like a betrayal of trauma trust like a betrayal of infidelity in your marriage or like you infidelity in your marriage or like you infidelity in your marriage or like you mentioned you know a pastor being mentioned you know a pastor being mentioned you know a pastor being betrayed by somebody that was in high up betrayed by somebody that was in high up betrayed by somebody that was in high up in leadership or a very significant in leadership or a very significant in leadership or a very significant person of their Ministry and then they person of their Ministry and then they person of their Ministry and then they somehow got the pastor fired or somehow got the pastor fired or somehow got the pastor fired or diminished the pastor's credibility you diminished the pastor's credibility you diminished the pastor's credibility you know those are Big T trust issues or know those are Big T trust issues or know those are Big T trust issues or whether it's a smaller trust issue like whether it's a smaller trust issue like whether it's a smaller trust issue like somebody said they were going to do somebody said they were going to do somebody said they were going to do something and they just never quite something and they just never quite something and they just never quite follow through so I just can't count on follow through so I just can't count on follow through so I just can't count on them you know that's still a betrayal them you know that's still a betrayal them you know that's still a betrayal that's still a trust issue they're just that's still a trust issue they're just that's still a trust issue they're just on different Scopes but sometimes those on different Scopes but sometimes those on different Scopes but sometimes those layers of betrayal are the layers of betrayal are the layers of betrayal are the same you know I wouldn't mind drilling same you know I wouldn't mind drilling same you know I wouldn't mind drilling into because we' talked about the into because we' talked about the into because we' talked about the marriage challenges before and we're marriage challenges before and we're marriage challenges before and we're going to talk about them again but you going to talk about them again but you going to talk about them again but you talked about the breakdown in talked about the breakdown in talked about the breakdown in friendships and when you look at the friendships and when you look at the friendships and when you look at the loneliness of leaders first of all it's loneliness of leaders first of all it's loneliness of leaders first of all it's an epidemic secondly last four or five an epidemic secondly last four or five an epidemic secondly last four or five years have made that way harder and you years have made that way harder and you years have made that way harder and you know there was one story anecdote it's

know there was one story anecdote it's know there was one story anecdote it's not an anecdote in the book where a not an anecdote in the book where a not an anecdote in the book where a quote friend of yours was running a quote friend of yours was running a quote friend of yours was running a conference And the tagline for this conference And the tagline for this conference And the tagline for this marriage conference was something like marriage conference was something like marriage conference was something like don't let what happened to Lisa's don't let what happened to Lisa's don't let what happened to Lisa's marriage happen to your marriage and marriage happen to your marriage and marriage happen to your marriage and when I read that I gasped I like oh my when I read that I gasped I like oh my when I read that I gasped I like oh my gosh like there's someone you trusted as gosh like there's someone you trusted as gosh like there's someone you trusted as a friend who takes the breakdown the a friend who takes the breakdown the a friend who takes the breakdown the death of your marriage and turns it into death of your marriage and turns it into death of your marriage and turns it into a marketing tool for a conference by the a marketing tool for a conference by the a marketing tool for a conference by the way listeners I did Google it I couldn't way listeners I did Google it I couldn't way listeners I did Google it I couldn't find it so you're not going to find out find it so you're not going to find out find it so you're not going to find out who it was but I mean talk about that who it was but I mean talk about that who it was but I mean talk about that Dynamic like that that is just Dynamic like that that is just Dynamic like that that is just staggering and I'm afraid you're staggering and I'm afraid you're staggering and I'm afraid you're probably not the first and not the last probably not the first and not the last probably not the first and not the last to have something like that happen to to have something like that happen to to have something like that happen to you so can you talk about that dynamics you so can you talk about that dynamics you so can you talk about that dynamics of a a friendship or a colleague of a a friendship or a colleague of a a friendship or a colleague relational relational relational breakdown well I absolutely can um trust breakdown well I absolutely can um trust breakdown well I absolutely can um trust is the oxygen of all human is the oxygen of all human is the oxygen of all human relationships so a relationship without relationships so a relationship without relationships so a relationship without trust is a relationship without trust is a relationship without trust is a relationship without vulnerability and depth uh a vulnerability and depth uh a vulnerability and depth uh a relationship without trust is a relationship without trust is a relationship without trust is a relationship void of the kind of love we relationship void of the kind of love we relationship void of the kind of love we were meant to give and receive you see were meant to give and receive you see were meant to give and receive you see broken trust complicates every bits of broken trust complicates every bits of broken trust complicates every bits of the part of Love That should be the part of Love That should be the part of Love That should be comforting to us like we should have comforting to us like we should have comforting to us like we should have people people that we really believe we people people that we really believe we people people that we really believe we can count on but here's the challenge can count on but here's the challenge can count on but here's the challenge you know I wish that I could say the you know I wish that I could say the you know I wish that I could say the promise of this book is I'm going to promise of this book is I'm going to promise of this book is I'm going to give you all the tools to make sure you

give you all the tools to make sure you give you all the tools to make sure you never get your trust broken again I never get your trust broken again I never get your trust broken again I cannot make that promise all cannot make that promise all cannot make that promise all relationships carry risk with it yeah relationships carry risk with it yeah relationships carry risk with it yeah and the risk of relationships is not and the risk of relationships is not and the risk of relationships is not something that I can solve as a matter something that I can solve as a matter something that I can solve as a matter of fact I feel like the greater of fact I feel like the greater of fact I feel like the greater proposition I can make in this book is proposition I can make in this book is proposition I can make in this book is is go ahead and count on that you will is go ahead and count on that you will is go ahead and count on that you will have your trust broken go ahead and have your trust broken go ahead and have your trust broken go ahead and count on the fact that people will let count on the fact that people will let count on the fact that people will let you down and I'm going to give you the you down and I'm going to give you the you down and I'm going to give you the tools so that you have a different kind tools so that you have a different kind tools so that you have a different kind of inner stability to weather the the of inner stability to weather the the of inner stability to weather the the trust issues that are naturally there trust issues that are naturally there trust issues that are naturally there look statistics show that the average look statistics show that the average look statistics show that the average American lies four times a day they're American lies four times a day they're American lies four times a day they're being deceitful four times a day on being deceitful four times a day on being deceitful four times a day on average for men it's a little higher average for men it's a little higher average for men it's a little higher it's like six times a day and women it's it's like six times a day and women it's it's like six times a day and women it's a little less maybe three times a day a little less maybe three times a day a little less maybe three times a day but they they smooshed those together but they they smooshed those together but they they smooshed those together and came up with four so no wonder we're and came up with four so no wonder we're and came up with four so no wonder we're so skeptical also with our family of so skeptical also with our family of so skeptical also with our family of origin with our experiences in the past origin with our experiences in the past origin with our experiences in the past past rejections we've gone through no past rejections we've gone through no past rejections we've gone through no wonder we have trust issues right and so wonder we have trust issues right and so wonder we have trust issues right and so I just think it's important that we I just think it's important that we I just think it's important that we acknowledge those but then we need the acknowledge those but then we need the acknowledge those but then we need the tools to help us better navigate those tools to help us better navigate those tools to help us better navigate those you see when we're in a relationship you see when we're in a relationship you see when we're in a relationship with a friend or a family member or a with a friend or a family member or a with a friend or a family member or a romantic relationship whatever it is romantic relationship whatever it is romantic relationship whatever it is the fabric of trust is made up of safety the fabric of trust is made up of safety the fabric of trust is made up of safety and and and connection so we need connections that connection so we need connections that connection so we need connections that are safe the problem is sometimes when

are safe the problem is sometimes when are safe the problem is sometimes when we have our trust broken we start to we have our trust broken we start to we have our trust broken we start to prioritize one or th the other in prioritize one or th the other in prioritize one or th the other in extremes so we may start to prioritize extremes so we may start to prioritize extremes so we may start to prioritize connection like we want this connection like we want this connection like we want this relationship so bad that we're willing relationship so bad that we're willing relationship so bad that we're willing to diminish our need for safety and to diminish our need for safety and to diminish our need for safety and overlook red flags and warning signs overlook red flags and warning signs overlook red flags and warning signs that we shouldn't Overlook because we that we shouldn't Overlook because we that we shouldn't Overlook because we are desperate for that connection other are desperate for that connection other are desperate for that connection other times other people will take it into an times other people will take it into an times other people will take it into an opposite extreme and this is what I do I opposite extreme and this is what I do I opposite extreme and this is what I do I start to prioritize safety so high that start to prioritize safety so high that start to prioritize safety so high that I want to diminish all risk therefore I I want to diminish all risk therefore I I want to diminish all risk therefore I diminish Connection in those diminish Connection in those diminish Connection in those relationship you withdraw you you what relationship you withdraw you you what relationship you withdraw you you what do you do yeah I withdraw or I stop do you do yeah I withdraw or I stop do you do yeah I withdraw or I stop sharing things that could make anything sharing things that could make anything sharing things that could make anything about what I share vulnerable and I I about what I share vulnerable and I I about what I share vulnerable and I I kind of make excuses to kind of keep kind of make excuses to kind of keep kind of make excuses to kind of keep start making that person more at Arms start making that person more at Arms start making that person more at Arms link because I don't want the closeness link because I don't want the closeness link because I don't want the closeness that carries the greatest risk so that carries the greatest risk so that carries the greatest risk so therefore in order to reduce the risk of therefore in order to reduce the risk of therefore in order to reduce the risk of getting hurt again I diminish the getting hurt again I diminish the getting hurt again I diminish the closeness I can relate to that that closeness I can relate to that that closeness I can relate to that that would be my response too I don't I don't would be my response too I don't I don't would be my response too I don't I don't lean into deeper connection I'm like all lean into deeper connection I'm like all lean into deeper connection I'm like all right you're further away now than you right you're further away now than you right you're further away now than you used to be yeah and of course we do this used to be yeah and of course we do this used to be yeah and of course we do this right yeah we don't want to get hurt and right yeah we don't want to get hurt and right yeah we don't want to get hurt and we do want Connection in our we do want Connection in our we do want Connection in our relationships and so that's why this relationships and so that's why this relationships and so that's why this gets so complicated and one other fact gets so complicated and one other fact gets so complicated and one other fact that I'll share that I think really that I'll share that I think really that I'll share that I think really opened my eyes to why I cannot promise

opened my eyes to why I cannot promise opened my eyes to why I cannot promise that you read this book and you're not that you read this book and you're not that you read this book and you're not going to get betrayed again I cannot going to get betrayed again I cannot going to get betrayed again I cannot promise that you're not going to have promise that you're not going to have promise that you're not going to have your trust broken in the Bible there's your trust broken in the Bible there's your trust broken in the Bible there's the word b b a t the word b b a t the word b b a t ah that word means trust when the object ah that word means trust when the object ah that word means trust when the object of the trust when bah is used and the of the trust when bah is used and the of the trust when bah is used and the object of trust is God in the Bible it's object of trust is God in the Bible it's object of trust is God in the Bible it's always used in a positive always used in a positive always used in a positive sense when Bata is used and it the sense when Bata is used and it the sense when Bata is used and it the context is trusting other people context is trusting other people context is trusting other people trusting positions power possessions B trusting positions power possessions B trusting positions power possessions B is almost always used in a negative is almost always used in a negative is almost always used in a negative sense I find that fascinating so the sense I find that fascinating so the sense I find that fascinating so the goal of the book no matter what kind of goal of the book no matter what kind of goal of the book no matter what kind of relationship we're talking about and relationship we're talking about and relationship we're talking about and certainly friend ships is a huge one I certainly friend ships is a huge one I certainly friend ships is a huge one I think we have to go ahead and accept think we have to go ahead and accept think we have to go ahead and accept that the only way to create an inner that the only way to create an inner that the only way to create an inner stability is to recognize the stability is to recognize the stability is to recognize the trustworthiness of God and I don't want trustworthiness of God and I don't want trustworthiness of God and I don't want to hypers spiritualize this and say like to hypers spiritualize this and say like to hypers spiritualize this and say like oh trust God and everything will be okay oh trust God and everything will be okay oh trust God and everything will be okay no it's that we shouldn't put ultimate no it's that we shouldn't put ultimate no it's that we shouldn't put ultimate Trust on other people we should never Trust on other people we should never Trust on other people we should never have have have unconditional trust with other people unconditional trust with other people unconditional trust with other people because sometimes that means blind Trust because sometimes that means blind Trust because sometimes that means blind Trust trust and I think as Christians trust and I think as Christians trust and I think as Christians sometimes we're like no no no no no sometimes we're like no no no no no sometimes we're like no no no no no they're a Christian I'm a Christian I they're a Christian I'm a Christian I they're a Christian I'm a Christian I should absolutely trust them great then should absolutely trust them great then should absolutely trust them great then make sure that's wise trust make sure make sure that's wise trust make sure make sure that's wise trust make sure that's a person who has a proven track that's a person who has a proven track that's a person who has a proven track record that they've done what they say record that they've done what they say record that they've done what they say they're going to do they are who they

they're going to do they are who they they're going to do they are who they say they are and they' they've shown say they are and they' they've shown say they are and they' they've shown that over time so that you can use wise that over time so that you can use wise that over time so that you can use wise trust and not blind trust when you saw trust and not blind trust when you saw trust and not blind trust when you saw that conference tagline What did you do that conference tagline What did you do that conference tagline What did you do well they sent it to me to inform me well they sent it to me to inform me well they sent it to me to inform me that this is their team sent it to you that this is their team sent it to you that this is their team sent it to you or your team their team sent it to me to or your team their team sent it to me to or your team their team sent it to me to try to get me to endorse the campaign try to get me to endorse the campaign try to get me to endorse the campaign and they actually wanted me to verbally and they actually wanted me to verbally and they actually wanted me to verbally encourage people don't let what happened encourage people don't let what happened encourage people don't let what happened to my marriage happened to yours go to to my marriage happened to yours go to to my marriage happened to yours go to this conference oh my gosh and when I this conference oh my gosh and when I this conference oh my gosh and when I saw that here's the here's the thing saw that here's the here's the thing saw that here's the here's the thing first of all I was crushed by it yeah first of all I was crushed by it yeah first of all I was crushed by it yeah the second thing is I knew that tagline the second thing is I knew that tagline the second thing is I knew that tagline wasn't created in a vacuum by one person wasn't created in a vacuum by one person wasn't created in a vacuum by one person like there was a whole group of people like there was a whole group of people like there was a whole group of people at that organization that looked at this at that organization that looked at this at that organization that looked at this and thought it was okay so then suddenly and thought it was okay so then suddenly and thought it was okay so then suddenly I just didn't I didn't just feel I just didn't I didn't just feel I just didn't I didn't just feel betrayed by one person I felt like an betrayed by one person I felt like an betrayed by one person I felt like an entire organization was coming against entire organization was coming against entire organization was coming against me and that's a very daunting feeling me and that's a very daunting feeling me and that's a very daunting feeling and so I was at first shocked and then I and so I was at first shocked and then I and so I was at first shocked and then I thought how dare you and then I thought thought how dare you and then I thought thought how dare you and then I thought I want to talk to your legal department I want to talk to your legal department I want to talk to your legal department yeah you know because did your legal yeah you know because did your legal yeah you know because did your legal department really approve this because department really approve this because department really approve this because if they did then we've got bigger issues if they did then we've got bigger issues if they did then we've got bigger issues here like you can't take the worst here like you can't take the worst here like you can't take the worst tragedy that a human has ever faced and tragedy that a human has ever faced and tragedy that a human has ever faced and use it as a marketing tagline to draw

use it as a marketing tagline to draw use it as a marketing tagline to draw people to your ministry like you can do people to your ministry like you can do people to your ministry like you can do that but why in the world would you and that but why in the world would you and that but why in the world would you and who would want to go to a conference who would want to go to a conference who would want to go to a conference where that was the marketing tagline where that was the marketing tagline where that was the marketing tagline right so right so right so it ever R just the fact that I saw it it ever R just the fact that I saw it it ever R just the fact that I saw it and knew that if I would have approved and knew that if I would have approved and knew that if I would have approved that you would be able to Google it and that you would be able to Google it and that you would be able to Google it and find it because they would have used it find it because they would have used it find it because they would have used it and that was really hard I was shocked and that was really hard I was shocked and that was really hard I was shocked and I was livid when I read that and I and I was livid when I read that and I and I was livid when I read that and I take it that relationship probably died take it that relationship probably died take it that relationship probably died after that did after that did after that did it yes and you know the sad thing is the it yes and you know the sad thing is the it yes and you know the sad thing is the relationship didn't have to die yeah relationship didn't have to die yeah relationship didn't have to die yeah this was this was a person who I had a this was this was a person who I had a this was this was a person who I had a friendship with and they had done a lot friendship with and they had done a lot friendship with and they had done a lot of good and I don't want to take the sum of good and I don't want to take the sum of good and I don't want to take the sum total of their entire Ministry and park total of their entire Ministry and park total of their entire Ministry and park it into this one mistake this wasn't a it into this one mistake this wasn't a it into this one mistake this wasn't a pattern of behavior you know everybody pattern of behavior you know everybody pattern of behavior you know everybody makes mistakes it's different when this makes mistakes it's different when this makes mistakes it's different when this is a mistake and when this is a pattern is a mistake and when this is a pattern is a mistake and when this is a pattern of behavior so the Friendship didn't of behavior so the Friendship didn't of behavior so the Friendship didn't have to die if if they would have have to die if if they would have have to die if if they would have owledge the mistake and they would have owledge the mistake and they would have owledge the mistake and they would have understood and acknowledged the cost of understood and acknowledged the cost of understood and acknowledged the cost of what it did to me to see that in that what it did to me to see that in that what it did to me to see that in that email and I think if there would have email and I think if there would have email and I think if there would have been a humble response in that moment been a humble response in that moment been a humble response in that moment then I think that the relationship then I think that the relationship then I think that the relationship absolutely could have survived but there absolutely could have survived but there absolutely could have survived but there was not a humble response there was just was not a humble response there was just was not a humble response there was just more accusations more questions

more accusations more questions more accusations more questions more I guess more words spoken to me more I guess more words spoken to me more I guess more words spoken to me that made it really evident you have no that made it really evident you have no that made it really evident you have no clue what it feels like to walk through clue what it feels like to walk through clue what it feels like to walk through what I'm walking through what I'm walking through what I'm walking through and so you know in that I was able to and so you know in that I was able to and so you know in that I was able to just just just acknowledge that people are down on what acknowledge that people are down on what acknowledge that people are down on what they're not up they're not up they're not up on and they just didn't on and they just didn't on and they just didn't understand um but it also made me understand um but it also made me understand um but it also made me incredibly sensitive to never ever do incredibly sensitive to never ever do incredibly sensitive to never ever do that to somebody who's already been that to somebody who's already been that to somebody who's already been knocked down by circumstances from knocked down by circumstances from knocked down by circumstances from choices that weren't theirs that like I choices that weren't theirs that like I choices that weren't theirs that like I didn't choose this I didn't want this it didn't choose this I didn't want this it didn't choose this I didn't want this it was placed on me and it was devastating was placed on me and it was devastating was placed on me and it was devastating to me yeah so sorry that happened and to me yeah so sorry that happened and to me yeah so sorry that happened and you know I I don't want to jump way you know I I don't want to jump way you know I I don't want to jump way ahead but you know you mention wise ahead but you know you mention wise ahead but you know you mention wise trust so you didn't date for a couple trust so you didn't date for a couple trust so you didn't date for a couple years after your marriage died you dated years after your marriage died you dated years after your marriage died you dated a little bit you found someone you've a little bit you found someone you've a little bit you found someone you've been married now for well over half a been married now for well over half a been married now for well over half a year and what was it like what was year and what was it like what was year and what was it like what was different I mean I can imagine well you different I mean I can imagine well you different I mean I can imagine well you said it in your book you're like I don't said it in your book you're like I don't said it in your book you're like I don't think I'm ever going to date again I think I'm ever going to date again I think I'm ever going to date again I think I'm going to be alone and I can think I'm going to be alone and I can think I'm going to be alone and I can see that being a very natural response see that being a very natural response see that being a very natural response particularly in the face of betrayal particularly in the face of betrayal particularly in the face of betrayal betrayal is different than death death betrayal is different than death death betrayal is different than death death is a Mourning but it was sort of beyond is a Mourning but it was sort of beyond is a Mourning but it was sort of beyond your control betrayal that's a whole your control betrayal that's a whole your control betrayal that's a whole other thing and I'm thinking about all other thing and I'm thinking about all other thing and I'm thinking about all the leaders who are tempted to quit the leaders who are tempted to quit the leaders who are tempted to quit because they've been betrayed numerous because they've been betrayed numerous because they've been betrayed numerous times who you know this is their third

times who you know this is their third times who you know this is their third board this is their fifth executive board this is their fifth executive board this is their fifth executive pastor this is their whatever whatever pastor this is their whatever whatever pastor this is their whatever whatever friend that they trusted what does wise friend that they trusted what does wise friend that they trusted what does wise trust look like what did it look like trust look like what did it look like trust look like what did it look like for you when you decided all right I'm for you when you decided all right I'm for you when you decided all right I'm going to go on a date I might allow going to go on a date I might allow going to go on a date I might allow myself to fall in love maybe I'll get myself to fall in love maybe I'll get myself to fall in love maybe I'll get married like what's what happened well married like what's what happened well married like what's what happened well first when I like I said it took me a first when I like I said it took me a first when I like I said it took me a long time to get to the place where I long time to get to the place where I long time to get to the place where I was even willing to date and here's the was even willing to date and here's the was even willing to date and here's the main reason why I did not want to main reason why I did not want to main reason why I did not want to approach any new relationship with the a approach any new relationship with the a approach any new relationship with the a little bit of desperation for them to little bit of desperation for them to little bit of desperation for them to help help help step into my pain and help ease the ache step into my pain and help ease the ache step into my pain and help ease the ache of my pain so in other words I didn't of my pain so in other words I didn't of my pain so in other words I didn't want to date because I needed someone to want to date because I needed someone to want to date because I needed someone to help me get through the hardships of help me get through the hardships of help me get through the hardships of having been betrayed in the past I having been betrayed in the past I having been betrayed in the past I wanted to be at a certain place where I wanted to be at a certain place where I wanted to be at a certain place where I could date someone and be freed up to could date someone and be freed up to could date someone and be freed up to want the right person without needing want the right person without needing want the right person without needing them to step in and help like ease the them to step in and help like ease the them to step in and help like ease the ache of my healing process and that ache of my healing process and that ache of my healing process and that there's a big difference when you step there's a big difference when you step there's a big difference when you step into a relationship if you're desperate into a relationship if you're desperate into a relationship if you're desperate then that's going to lead to some then that's going to lead to some then that's going to lead to some compromises because you know you just compromises because you know you just compromises because you know you just you want a connection with another you want a connection with another you want a connection with another person because you've hurt so bad from person because you've hurt so bad from person because you've hurt so bad from this other person but one thing that my this other person but one thing that my this other person but one thing that my counselor helped me see is that my counselor helped me see is that my counselor helped me see is that my picker was broken now you have to be picker was broken now you have to be picker was broken now you have to be careful how you say that because that careful how you say that because that careful how you say that because that sounds right like your ability to spot

sounds right like your ability to spot sounds right like your ability to spot who was right for you was broken and so who was right for you was broken and so who was right for you was broken and so I needed to spend two years working on I needed to spend two years working on I needed to spend two years working on my healing so that I wouldn't keep my healing so that I wouldn't keep my healing so that I wouldn't keep attracting people at my same level of attracting people at my same level of attracting people at my same level of Health when I was at an unhealthy broken Health when I was at an unhealthy broken Health when I was at an unhealthy broken place so I I needed to spend that time place so I I needed to spend that time place so I I needed to spend that time to do the work to get healthy to figure to do the work to get healthy to figure to do the work to get healthy to figure out all the effects that this had on me out all the effects that this had on me out all the effects that this had on me and what can I do to elevate my health and what can I do to elevate my health and what can I do to elevate my health because we will attract other people at because we will attract other people at because we will attract other people at our same level of health and didn't want our same level of health and didn't want our same level of health and didn't want to attract another unhealthy partner I to attract another unhealthy partner I to attract another unhealthy partner I wanted to attract what was healthy and wanted to attract what was healthy and wanted to attract what was healthy and sometimes it wasn't just about the sometimes it wasn't just about the sometimes it wasn't just about the Brokenness inside of me it's that I had Brokenness inside of me it's that I had Brokenness inside of me it's that I had lived in dysfunction for so long that lived in dysfunction for so long that lived in dysfunction for so long that dysfunction started to feel normal to me dysfunction started to feel normal to me dysfunction started to feel normal to me and when dysfunction feels normal we and when dysfunction feels normal we and when dysfunction feels normal we will attract other people who feel will attract other people who feel will attract other people who feel normal but if dysfunction feels normal normal but if dysfunction feels normal normal but if dysfunction feels normal then we're going to attract other people then we're going to attract other people then we're going to attract other people who will have the same kind of who will have the same kind of who will have the same kind of dysfunctional dance with us that that we dysfunctional dance with us that that we dysfunctional dance with us that that we had before so for those reasons I wanted had before so for those reasons I wanted had before so for those reasons I wanted to I wanted to recognize what is to I wanted to recognize what is to I wanted to recognize what is dysfunctional and I needed to get to a dysfunctional and I needed to get to a dysfunctional and I needed to get to a place where I saw that dysfunction is place where I saw that dysfunction is place where I saw that dysfunction is not normal there's an elevated sense of not normal there's an elevated sense of not normal there's an elevated sense of what normal is and so I wanted to get to what normal is and so I wanted to get to what normal is and so I wanted to get to that place where I was attracting people that place where I was attracting people that place where I was attracting people who had done their work people who had who had done their work people who had who had done their work people who had been through some stuff but who and had

been through some stuff but who and had been through some stuff but who and had enough empathy to understand the enough empathy to understand the enough empathy to understand the hardships but at the same time who had hardships but at the same time who had hardships but at the same time who had spent time doing their healing work so spent time doing their healing work so spent time doing their healing work so um that's why those two years of no um that's why those two years of no um that's why those two years of no relationship no dating um that that was relationship no dating um that that was relationship no dating um that that was pretty crucial for me then when I did pretty crucial for me then when I did pretty crucial for me then when I did step into dating I at first was so step into dating I at first was so step into dating I at first was so panicked like I have to pick up on every panicked like I have to pick up on every panicked like I have to pick up on every red flag so I felt like I was stepping red flag so I felt like I was stepping red flag so I felt like I was stepping into a date already assuming the worst into a date already assuming the worst into a date already assuming the worst about this person and feeling the about this person and feeling the about this person and feeling the pressure I've got to I've got to pick pressure I've got to I've got to pick pressure I've got to I've got to pick apart everything they say and that was apart everything they say and that was apart everything they say and that was not that was not going well for me and not that was not going well for me and not that was not going well for me and so I decided instead I would step into a so I decided instead I would step into a so I decided instead I would step into a date giving myself permission to not date giving myself permission to not date giving myself permission to not look for red flags if they emerged then look for red flags if they emerged then look for red flags if they emerged then acknowledge that that's a red flag but acknowledge that that's a red flag but acknowledge that that's a red flag but the main priority for me in the date was the main priority for me in the date was the main priority for me in the date was yes to learn a bit a little bit about yes to learn a bit a little bit about yes to learn a bit a little bit about this other person but I made it my goal this other person but I made it my goal this other person but I made it my goal every time I came home from a date to every time I came home from a date to every time I came home from a date to ask myself the question what did I learn ask myself the question what did I learn ask myself the question what did I learn about me what did I discover about what about me what did I discover about what about me what did I discover about what I need and what I want and it really I need and what I want and it really I need and what I want and it really served me well so therefore I wasn't served me well so therefore I wasn't served me well so therefore I wasn't hunting for a husband I was in search of hunting for a husband I was in search of hunting for a husband I was in search of for the first time being able to for the first time being able to for the first time being able to acknowledge what I wanted and what I acknowledge what I wanted and what I acknowledge what I wanted and what I needed and what I didn't want and what I needed and what I didn't want and what I needed and what I didn't want and what I didn't need and learning about myself didn't need and learning about myself didn't need and learning about myself was really important I did not know was really important I did not know was really important I did not know before I dated my now husband I did not

before I dated my now husband I did not before I dated my now husband I did not know how important it would be know how important it would be know how important it would be that this other that this other that this other person had conquered person had conquered person had conquered addictions I would have said I need addictions I would have said I need addictions I would have said I need someone who's never struggled with someone who's never struggled with someone who's never struggled with addictions yeah and maybe that would addictions yeah and maybe that would addictions yeah and maybe that would have worked out beautifully too but Chaz have worked out beautifully too but Chaz have worked out beautifully too but Chaz is 10 years sober and I knew that he had is 10 years sober and I knew that he had is 10 years sober and I knew that he had the ability to conquer addictions that the ability to conquer addictions that the ability to conquer addictions that feel so scary to me and he has built feel so scary to me and he has built feel so scary to me and he has built into his life patterns of behavior that into his life patterns of behavior that into his life patterns of behavior that are his toolbox to help regulate him are his toolbox to help regulate him are his toolbox to help regulate him when he gets disregulated when he gets when he gets disregulated when he gets when he gets disregulated when he gets upset about something he's not turning upset about something he's not turning upset about something he's not turning to an addiction to help ease the ache of to an addiction to help ease the ache of to an addiction to help ease the ache of that pain he has so many healthy coping that pain he has so many healthy coping that pain he has so many healthy coping mechanisms and I had no idea that I mechanisms and I had no idea that I mechanisms and I had no idea that I needed that but I learned that about needed that but I learned that about needed that but I learned that about myself when I started dating him so this myself when I started dating him so this myself when I started dating him so this is interesting the broken picker thing is interesting the broken picker thing is interesting the broken picker thing never heard about it never thought about never heard about it never thought about never heard about it never thought about it and had a lot flash through my eyes it and had a lot flash through my eyes it and had a lot flash through my eyes and I think my picker's probably been and I think my picker's probably been and I think my picker's probably been broken at different points and in my broken at different points and in my broken at different points and in my life where you end up and you know you life where you end up and you know you life where you end up and you know you hire the same kind of person you make hire the same kind of person you make hire the same kind of person you make friends with the same kind of person and friends with the same kind of person and friends with the same kind of person and it doesn't work out and then you go back it doesn't work out and then you go back it doesn't work out and then you go back and you do it again what are and maybe I and you do it again what are and maybe I and you do it again what are and maybe I don't know how to answer this so I'm not don't know how to answer this so I'm not don't know how to answer this so I'm not sure where this is going but what are sure where this is going but what are sure where this is going but what are some signs that your picker might be some signs that your picker might be some signs that your picker might be broken to use that term or or that it broken to use that term or or that it broken to use that term or or that it needs some work or that it's not working needs some work or that it's not working needs some work or that it's not working out for you out of your own life or out out for you out of your own life or out out for you out of your own life or out of what you've learned about that of what you've learned about that of what you've learned about that principle in general yeah such a good

principle in general yeah such a good principle in general yeah such a good question I think that there are several question I think that there are several question I think that there are several indicators and and I won't generalize indicators and and I won't generalize indicators and and I won't generalize this to other people so I'm gonna this to other people so I'm gonna this to other people so I'm gonna personalize it to me sure here are some personalize it to me sure here are some personalize it to me sure here are some indications that my picker was broken um indications that my picker was broken um indications that my picker was broken um and I already alluded to and I already alluded to and I already alluded to one I accepted certain dysfunctions as one I accepted certain dysfunctions as one I accepted certain dysfunctions as normal and normal dis those dysfunctions normal and normal dis those dysfunctions normal and normal dis those dysfunctions felt comfortable to me and so I needed felt comfortable to me and so I needed felt comfortable to me and so I needed to be able to step back and have a to be able to step back and have a to be able to step back and have a counselor help me identify these things counselor help me identify these things counselor help me identify these things feel normal to you but these are in fact feel normal to you but these are in fact feel normal to you but these are in fact dysfunctions so let me give you an dysfunctions so let me give you an dysfunctions so let me give you an example of just a funny dysfunction okay example of just a funny dysfunction okay example of just a funny dysfunction okay sure sure so my sister came to visit and sure sure so my sister came to visit and sure sure so my sister came to visit and um my sister and I to give you a little um my sister and I to give you a little um my sister and I to give you a little background um the first half of our background um the first half of our background um the first half of our childhood we were being raised by a childhood we were being raised by a childhood we were being raised by a single mom and we were very very very single mom and we were very very very single mom and we were very very very poor so we didn't have money when poor so we didn't have money when poor so we didn't have money when something would break at our house we something would break at our house we something would break at our house we didn't have money to go hire a didn't have money to go hire a didn't have money to go hire a professional so we would do what's professional so we would do what's professional so we would do what's called a workaround like we would figure called a workaround like we would figure called a workaround like we would figure out how to kind of rig it so it would out how to kind of rig it so it would out how to kind of rig it so it would kind of work but it wasn't fixed it was kind of work but it wasn't fixed it was kind of work but it wasn't fixed it was just a workaround where we could kind of just a workaround where we could kind of just a workaround where we could kind of like make it work even though it wasn't like make it work even though it wasn't like make it work even though it wasn't ultimately fixed and so when when you ultimately fixed and so when when you ultimately fixed and so when when you live in the dysfunction of we can't live in the dysfunction of we can't live in the dysfunction of we can't afford for something to get fixed you afford for something to get fixed you afford for something to get fixed you like for a vast majority of your like for a vast majority of your like for a vast majority of your childhood then as an adult when I could childhood then as an adult when I could childhood then as an adult when I could afford to have things fixed that same

afford to have things fixed that same afford to have things fixed that same broken thought pattern that same broken thought pattern that same broken thought pattern that same mentality would go you know it's going mentality would go you know it's going mentality would go you know it's going to be too expensive to get this fixed so to be too expensive to get this fixed so to be too expensive to get this fixed so just work around like figure out how to just work around like figure out how to just work around like figure out how to make it work so my sister comes to visit make it work so my sister comes to visit make it work so my sister comes to visit and I had just had some Renovations done and I had just had some Renovations done and I had just had some Renovations done and somehow I mean this is going to and somehow I mean this is going to and somehow I mean this is going to sound unbelievable but it is absolutely sound unbelievable but it is absolutely sound unbelievable but it is absolutely true somehow the hot water true somehow the hot water true somehow the hot water heater and the back flood lights were heater and the back flood lights were heater and the back flood lights were connected so as long as the back flood connected so as long as the back flood connected so as long as the back flood lights were on you would have hot water lights were on you would have hot water lights were on you would have hot water but if somebody turned the back flood but if somebody turned the back flood but if somebody turned the back flood lights off the hot water would go out lights off the hot water would go out lights off the hot water would go out now I cannot explain why this is true now I cannot explain why this is true now I cannot explain why this is true but it was true and so my sister goes but it was true and so my sister goes but it was true and so my sister goes upstairs and she takes a shower and upstairs and she takes a shower and upstairs and she takes a shower and somebody must have turned the back flood somebody must have turned the back flood somebody must have turned the back flood lights off and so she jumps out of the lights off and so she jumps out of the lights off and so she jumps out of the shower and yells down Lisa something shower and yells down Lisa something shower and yells down Lisa something just happened to the hot water to which just happened to the hot water to which just happened to the hot water to which I replied sorry I'll go turn the back I replied sorry I'll go turn the back I replied sorry I'll go turn the back flood lights back flood lights back flood lights back on so she gets out of the shower she on so she gets out of the shower she on so she gets out of the shower she walks downstairs she gets dressed she walks downstairs she gets dressed she walks downstairs she gets dressed she walks downstairs she gets really close walks downstairs she gets really close walks downstairs she gets really close to my face like only a sister could and to my face like only a sister could and to my face like only a sister could and she said repeat to me what you said when she said repeat to me what you said when she said repeat to me what you said when I told you the hot water heater went out I told you the hot water heater went out I told you the hot water heater went out and I said oh sorry like if the black and I said oh sorry like if the black and I said oh sorry like if the black flood lights get turned off then the hot flood lights get turned off then the hot flood lights get turned off then the hot water heater goes out so I just needed water heater goes out so I just needed water heater goes out so I just needed to flip the switch back on yeah and she to flip the switch back on yeah and she to flip the switch back on yeah and she looked at me she goes you know that's looked at me she goes you know that's looked at me she goes you know that's not normal right like you know that that not normal right like you know that that not normal right like you know that that is not normal and I said oh I know I is not normal and I said oh I know I is not normal and I said oh I know I know you see I've been meaning to make a know you see I've been meaning to make a know you see I've been meaning to make a sign to put by that light switch to say

sign to put by that light switch to say sign to put by that light switch to say don't turn this off otherwise the hot don't turn this off otherwise the hot don't turn this off otherwise the hot water heater will go out but I just water heater will go out but I just water heater will go out but I just hadn't had time and she leaned in she hadn't had time and she leaned in she hadn't had time and she leaned in she goes okay Lisa now that's not only not goes okay Lisa now that's not only not goes okay Lisa now that's not only not normal that is normal that is normal that is dysfunctional like did it ever occur to dysfunctional like did it ever occur to dysfunctional like did it ever occur to you to actually get a professional out you to actually get a professional out you to actually get a professional out here to fix this and it occurred to me here to fix this and it occurred to me here to fix this and it occurred to me no no my solution was to print a sign no no my solution was to print a sign no no my solution was to print a sign and live with the and live with the and live with the dysfunction okay so that's what I mean I dysfunction okay so that's what I mean I dysfunction okay so that's what I mean I mean that's a funny example but we do mean that's a funny example but we do mean that's a funny example but we do this in relationships too and because we this in relationships too and because we this in relationships too and because we will attract people that feel will attract people that feel will attract people that feel comfortable to us if dysfunction feels comfortable to us if dysfunction feels comfortable to us if dysfunction feels comfortable then we may in effect be comfortable then we may in effect be comfortable then we may in effect be attracting people with those same attracting people with those same attracting people with those same dysfunctions just because that's dysfunctions just because that's dysfunctions just because that's comfortable but just because it's comfortable but just because it's comfortable but just because it's comfortable doesn't mean that it's good comfortable doesn't mean that it's good comfortable doesn't mean that it's good long long long term oh that's fantastic you know we term oh that's fantastic you know we term oh that's fantastic you know we were sitting down with some really were sitting down with some really were sitting down with some really really close friends a couple of weeks really close friends a couple of weeks really close friends a couple of weeks ago and we were just talking about our ago and we were just talking about our ago and we were just talking about our families and I mentioned sisters and he families and I mentioned sisters and he families and I mentioned sisters and he pointed at one of the sisters he goes oh pointed at one of the sisters he goes oh pointed at one of the sisters he goes oh yeah she's the normal one I'm like so yeah she's the normal one I'm like so yeah she's the normal one I'm like so I'm abnormal and he goes well you know I'm abnormal and he goes well you know I'm abnormal and he goes well you know there's a lot sometimes a little extreme there's a lot sometimes a little extreme there's a lot sometimes a little extreme sometimes I'm like yeah you're right you sometimes I'm like yeah you're right you sometimes I'm like yeah you're right you know but you're right we just become so know but you're right we just become so know but you're right we just become so accustomed to who we are that we stop accustomed to who we are that we stop accustomed to who we are that we stop noticing things okay that's really noticing things okay that's really noticing things okay that's really helpful now you spent some time with Dr helpful now you spent some time with Dr helpful now you spent some time with Dr amen whose name has come up again and amen whose name has come up again and amen whose name has come up again and again and again in my life in the last again and again in my life in the last again and again in my life in the last month or two I got to track this down month or two I got to track this down month or two I got to track this down what did you learn about what broken

what did you learn about what broken what did you learn about what broken trust does to the body and to the brain trust does to the body and to the brain trust does to the body and to the brain because this is not just like you know because this is not just like you know because this is not just like you know have a good night's sleep you'll get have a good night's sleep you'll get have a good night's sleep you'll get over it this actually changes your brain over it this actually changes your brain over it this actually changes your brain chemistry neural Pathways what does what chemistry neural Pathways what does what chemistry neural Pathways what does what does it do absolutely well I wanted to does it do absolutely well I wanted to does it do absolutely well I wanted to have my brain scanned because I didn't have my brain scanned because I didn't have my brain scanned because I didn't want to just talk about this in theory want to just talk about this in theory want to just talk about this in theory as it relates to other people or in as it relates to other people or in as it relates to other people or in theory as the research shows but I theory as the research shows but I theory as the research shows but I wanted to personalize it I I really wanted to personalize it I I really wanted to personalize it I I really really wanted to know really wanted to know really wanted to know like I have walked through some serious like I have walked through some serious like I have walked through some serious betrayal what effect did this have what betrayal what effect did this have what betrayal what effect did this have what impact did this have on my brain and so impact did this have on my brain and so impact did this have on my brain and so Dr aan scanned my brain and he put me Dr aan scanned my brain and he put me Dr aan scanned my brain and he put me through a battery of tests so that through a battery of tests so that through a battery of tests so that that's his real name by the way it's a that's his real name by the way it's a that's his real name by the way it's a cool name but that's his real name cool name but that's his real name cool name but that's his real name awesome um so he put me through a awesome um so he put me through a awesome um so he put me through a battery of tests so he could see my battery of tests so he could see my battery of tests so he could see my brain activity when I was at rest and brain activity when I was at rest and brain activity when I was at rest and when I was at work when I felt calm and when I was at work when I felt calm and when I was at work when I felt calm and when I felt stressed so he it was it was when I felt stressed so he it was it was when I felt stressed so he it was it was was a whole bunch of cognitive tests and was a whole bunch of cognitive tests and was a whole bunch of cognitive tests and um it was a lot and several scans of my um it was a lot and several scans of my um it was a lot and several scans of my brain but when the results came back he brain but when the results came back he brain but when the results came back he put up a picture of a healthy brain and put up a picture of a healthy brain and put up a picture of a healthy brain and a brain that you would expect someone a brain that you would expect someone a brain that you would expect someone who has not walk through some of what I who has not walk through some of what I who has not walk through some of what I walk through you would expect for there walk through you would expect for there walk through you would expect for there to be this level of help in the brain to be this level of help in the brain to be this level of help in the brain for a woman my age then he put up my for a woman my age then he put up my for a woman my age then he put up my brain and he pointed out he's like Lisa brain and he pointed out he's like Lisa brain and he pointed out he's like Lisa do you see these four do you see these four do you see these four lit up places in your brain those lit up lit up places in your brain those lit up lit up places in your brain those lit up places are anxiety centers and those

places are anxiety centers and those places are anxiety centers and those anxiety centers are lit up not just when anxiety centers are lit up not just when anxiety centers are lit up not just when you're stressed or busy or working hard you're stressed or busy or working hard you're stressed or busy or working hard about you know working hard on things about you know working hard on things about you know working hard on things but they stay lit up even when you're at but they stay lit up even when you're at but they stay lit up even when you're at rest so you have ongoing anxiety and rest so you have ongoing anxiety and rest so you have ongoing anxiety and they call these four centers when you they call these four centers when you they call these four centers when you see it they form the shape of a diamond see it they form the shape of a diamond see it they form the shape of a diamond they call it the trauma Diamond it's they call it the trauma Diamond it's they call it the trauma Diamond it's like like like this is evidence of betrayal this is this is evidence of betrayal this is this is evidence of betrayal this is evidence of having your TR trust broken evidence of having your TR trust broken evidence of having your TR trust broken this is evidence of Believe It or Not this is evidence of Believe It or Not this is evidence of Believe It or Not emotional emotional emotional abuse and when I could see that trauma abuse and when I could see that trauma abuse and when I could see that trauma Diamond when I when I could see it with Diamond when I when I could see it with Diamond when I when I could see it with my very own eyes I thought never again my very own eyes I thought never again my very own eyes I thought never again am I going to shy away from using those am I going to shy away from using those am I going to shy away from using those words emotional words emotional words emotional abuse because I could see the cause and abuse because I could see the cause and abuse because I could see the cause and the effect I I could see the cost to me the effect I I could see the cost to me the effect I I could see the cost to me for example the top part of the diamond for example the top part of the diamond for example the top part of the diamond that was lit up that's the anxiety that was lit up that's the anxiety that was lit up that's the anxiety around um certain traumas that happen around um certain traumas that happen around um certain traumas that happen and it's where PTSD is often found and and it's where PTSD is often found and and it's where PTSD is often found and boy did I have that lit up but the good boy did I have that lit up but the good boy did I have that lit up but the good news is he said he could also see news is he said he could also see news is he said he could also see evidence that all the work I was doing evidence that all the work I was doing evidence that all the work I was doing EMDR which is a beautiful thing if EMDR which is a beautiful thing if EMDR which is a beautiful thing if you've never heard of EMDR I highly you've never heard of EMDR I highly you've never heard of EMDR I highly recommend it it sounds crazy but it recommend it it sounds crazy but it recommend it it sounds crazy but it really does work I have someone close to really does work I have someone close to really does work I have someone close to me who's been through it I haven't been me who's been through it I haven't been me who's been through it I haven't been through it but I hear great things through it but I hear great things through it but I hear great things couple of people close to me it's couple of people close to me it's couple of people close to me it's amazing it's helping the two sides of amazing it's helping the two sides of amazing it's helping the two sides of the brain reconnect so you can better the brain reconnect so you can better the brain reconnect so you can better process things so um he said I can see

process things so um he said I can see process things so um he said I can see that you've done EMDR I can see that that you've done EMDR I can see that that you've done EMDR I can see that you're doing your counseling work I can you're doing your counseling work I can you're doing your counseling work I can see that you're serious about praying see that you're serious about praying see that you're serious about praying through these issues and working on through these issues and working on through these issues and working on forgiveness because he could see that forgiveness because he could see that forgiveness because he could see that there was evidence of that PTSD but that there was evidence of that PTSD but that there was evidence of that PTSD but that it was getting better and that filled me it was getting better and that filled me it was getting better and that filled me with hope he also helped explain there's with hope he also helped explain there's with hope he also helped explain there's another part of the trauma diamond another part of the trauma diamond another part of the trauma diamond where it if that part is lit up it's where it if that part is lit up it's where it if that part is lit up it's common for you to then misread cues from common for you to then misread cues from common for you to then misread cues from other people and at first when he said other people and at first when he said other people and at first when he said this I'm like no I'm very socially aware this I'm like no I'm very socially aware this I'm like no I'm very socially aware like I feel like I can really read like I feel like I can really read like I feel like I can really read people but here's where it plays out for people but here's where it plays out for people but here's where it plays out for me is that today if we're on the me is that today if we're on the me is that today if we're on the interview and you may do like this to interview and you may do like this to interview and you may do like this to like look up at lights but I could like look up at lights but I could like look up at lights but I could misread that when I I'm putting it misread that when I I'm putting it misread that when I I'm putting it through a filter of having been betrayed through a filter of having been betrayed through a filter of having been betrayed and rejection I could say man Carrie and rejection I could say man Carrie and rejection I could say man Carrie just thought what I just said sounded just thought what I just said sounded just thought what I just said sounded stupid and it's like no Carrie heard a stupid and it's like no Carrie heard a stupid and it's like no Carrie heard a buzzing noise and so he looked up at the buzzing noise and so he looked up at the buzzing noise and so he looked up at the light right and so we can misread cues light right and so we can misread cues light right and so we can misread cues by other people um another part that was by other people um another part that was by other people um another part that was lit up was often what causes lit up was often what causes lit up was often what causes overthinking and catastrophic thinking overthinking and catastrophic thinking overthinking and catastrophic thinking okay and that's made so much sense to me okay and that's made so much sense to me okay and that's made so much sense to me too because I used to say okay it's like too because I used to say okay it's like too because I used to say okay it's like I can pretty much guarantee you think of I can pretty much guarantee you think of I can pretty much guarantee you think of the worst caseen but worst case the worst caseen but worst case the worst caseen but worst case scenarios don't often happen but I have scenarios don't often happen but I have scenarios don't often happen but I have been through so many worst case been through so many worst case been through so many worst case scenarios coming true that now scenarios coming true that now scenarios coming true that now catastrophic thinking was always catastrophic thinking was always catastrophic thinking was always factored in and so I could see the

factored in and so I could see the factored in and so I could see the impact that this betrayal trauma had had impact that this betrayal trauma had had impact that this betrayal trauma had had on me and yeah it was hard to receive on me and yeah it was hard to receive on me and yeah it was hard to receive that news but it also helped me make that news but it also helped me make that news but it also helped me make sense of why I do certain things and sense of why I do certain things and sense of why I do certain things and just making me aware of it is helping me just making me aware of it is helping me just making me aware of it is helping me know those are specific things I need to know those are specific things I need to know those are specific things I need to address and work on so it proved to be address and work on so it proved to be address and work on so it proved to be very very helpful yeah and and from what very very helpful yeah and and from what very very helpful yeah and and from what I understand and again I've been fairly I understand and again I've been fairly I understand and again I've been fairly recently introduced to it this is you recently introduced to it this is you recently introduced to it this is you don't have brain surgery and it gets don't have brain surgery and it gets don't have brain surgery and it gets fixed this is emotional work that you do fixed this is emotional work that you do fixed this is emotional work that you do healing work you do you reorient healing work you do you reorient healing work you do you reorient yourself through trauma prayer all of yourself through trauma prayer all of yourself through trauma prayer all of that stuff and then your brain actually that stuff and then your brain actually that stuff and then your brain actually changes and hopefully if you got a changes and hopefully if you got a changes and hopefully if you got a second scan it would show progress in second scan it would show progress in second scan it would show progress in those areas is that right and also those areas is that right and also those areas is that right and also healthy choices you know I mean there's healthy choices you know I mean there's healthy choices you know I mean there's a lot of healthy choices there's a lot of healthy choices there's a lot of healthy choices there's supplements you can take it's good supplements you can take it's good supplements you can take it's good nutrition it's exercise I mean all of nutrition it's exercise I mean all of nutrition it's exercise I mean all of that really does play into it too okay that really does play into it too okay that really does play into it too okay no that's good to know but you know the no that's good to know but you know the no that's good to know but you know the idea that this this actually has an idea that this this actually has an idea that this this actually has an impact on how your brain functions and impact on how your brain functions and impact on how your brain functions and create sort of a loop a negative spiral create sort of a loop a negative spiral create sort of a loop a negative spiral is really really fascinating we're is really really fascinating we're is really really fascinating we're learning so much in that that area um learning so much in that that area um learning so much in that that area um you mentioned this earlier and I want to you mentioned this earlier and I want to you mentioned this earlier and I want to come back to it because I've heard this come back to it because I've heard this come back to it because I've heard this so many times in leadership and been so many times in leadership and been so many times in leadership and been guilty of it myself more so in Years guilty of it myself more so in Years guilty of it myself more so in Years Gone by than currently but we overp Gone by than currently but we overp Gone by than currently but we overp spiritualize we're like Hey we're spiritualize we're like Hey we're spiritualize we're like Hey we're Christians we should trust everybody hey Christians we should trust everybody hey Christians we should trust everybody hey Lisa you should have just forgiven him Lisa you should have just forgiven him Lisa you should have just forgiven him hey Lisa you know you just pray about hey Lisa you know you just pray about hey Lisa you know you just pray about that and everything will be okay what is

that and everything will be okay what is that and everything will be okay what is the problem with overp spiritualizing it the problem with overp spiritualizing it the problem with overp spiritualizing it well I it's funny that uh you're well I it's funny that uh you're well I it's funny that uh you're bringing this up because I went to a bringing this up because I went to a bringing this up because I went to a therapy group and it was it was at a therapy group and it was it was at a therapy group and it was it was at a retreat um it's called on s and I had a retreat um it's called on s and I had a retreat um it's called on s and I had a Christian leader but many of the people Christian leader but many of the people Christian leader but many of the people in my group weren't Christians and or in my group weren't Christians and or in my group weren't Christians and or they had different beliefs than me and they had different beliefs than me and they had different beliefs than me and it was really fascinating for me to step it was really fascinating for me to step it was really fascinating for me to step outside of the Christian bubble and see outside of the Christian bubble and see outside of the Christian bubble and see how other people think about things how how other people think about things how how other people think about things how they process things and so she had this they process things and so she had this they process things and so she had this one thing where she was like okay I want one thing where she was like okay I want one thing where she was like okay I want everybody to go around and name their everybody to go around and name their everybody to go around and name their coping mechanism because we're going to coping mechanism because we're going to coping mechanism because we're going to work on replacing unhealthy coping work on replacing unhealthy coping work on replacing unhealthy coping mechanisms with healthy ones well as the mechanisms with healthy ones well as the mechanisms with healthy ones well as the people were going around the circle I people were going around the circle I people were going around the circle I was like oh wow these people have so was like oh wow these people have so was like oh wow these people have so many more choices about unhealthy coping many more choices about unhealthy coping many more choices about unhealthy coping mechanisms and they have they have ways mechanisms and they have they have ways mechanisms and they have they have ways to numb their pain that like never were to numb their pain that like never were to numb their pain that like never were part of my thought process right and so part of my thought process right and so part of my thought process right and so you know they were talking about like you know they were talking about like you know they were talking about like alcohol and drugs and one gal was um alcohol and drugs and one gal was um alcohol and drugs and one gal was um seriously addicted to Netflix like she seriously addicted to Netflix like she seriously addicted to Netflix like she laid in her bed for two years and did laid in her bed for two years and did laid in her bed for two years and did nothing but watched Netflix like to nothing but watched Netflix like to nothing but watched Netflix like to withdrew from life completely um you withdrew from life completely um you withdrew from life completely um you know and there there were all these know and there there were all these know and there there were all these things and I was panicked as the circle things and I was panicked as the circle things and I was panicked as the circle was coming or like it was about to be my was coming or like it was about to be my was coming or like it was about to be my turn and I thought I don't have a coping

turn and I thought I don't have a coping turn and I thought I don't have a coping me mechanism maybe that's my problem me mechanism maybe that's my problem me mechanism maybe that's my problem like I I I I've never I didn't turn to like I I I I've never I didn't turn to like I I I I've never I didn't turn to drinking I didn't turn to drugs I didn't drinking I didn't turn to drugs I didn't drinking I didn't turn to drugs I didn't turn to place like and so I was like do turn to place like and so I was like do turn to place like and so I was like do I make up something like do I just say I make up something like do I just say I make up something like do I just say like cocaine but then the problem is like cocaine but then the problem is like cocaine but then the problem is these people know about cocaine so these people know about cocaine so these people know about cocaine so they're going to ask me a question I'm they're going to ask me a question I'm they're going to ask me a question I'm not going to know the lingo so then I'm not going to know the lingo so then I'm not going to know the lingo so then I'm going to be like oh liar you know and so going to be like oh liar you know and so going to be like oh liar you know and so it got to me and I was honest I just it got to me and I was honest I just it got to me and I was honest I just said I think my problem is I don't have said I think my problem is I don't have said I think my problem is I don't have a A coping mechanism and she said yes a A coping mechanism and she said yes a A coping mechanism and she said yes you do my therapist was just that quick you do my therapist was just that quick you do my therapist was just that quick yes you do and I said what is it she yes you do and I said what is it she yes you do and I said what is it she said you hypers spiritualize everything said you hypers spiritualize everything said you hypers spiritualize everything so you Leap Frog over your need for so you Leap Frog over your need for so you Leap Frog over your need for healing by just hyper spiritualizing ing healing by just hyper spiritualizing ing healing by just hyper spiritualizing ing it and so you give yourself permission it and so you give yourself permission it and so you give yourself permission to deal with nothing because you just to deal with nothing because you just to deal with nothing because you just like say some Christian saying and you like say some Christian saying and you like say some Christian saying and you just Leap Frog over the work that needs just Leap Frog over the work that needs just Leap Frog over the work that needs to be done and it at first it made me to be done and it at first it made me to be done and it at first it made me mad I was like oh well you don't mad I was like oh well you don't mad I was like oh well you don't understand how powerful God's word is understand how powerful God's word is understand how powerful God's word is you know it's the truth that sets you you know it's the truth that sets you you know it's the truth that sets you free right and yes that is true and it's free right and yes that is true and it's free right and yes that is true and it's also true that we need to work on our also true that we need to work on our also true that we need to work on our stuff and the Bible is filled with stuff and the Bible is filled with stuff and the Bible is filled with people like creating in me a new heart people like creating in me a new heart people like creating in me a new heart God you know there it is filled with God you know there it is filled with God you know there it is filled with people who need to face their sin and people who need to face their sin and people who need to face their sin and and deal with their sin so that they can and deal with their sin so that they can and deal with their sin so that they can heal from their sin and you know I I was heal from their sin and you know I I was heal from their sin and you know I I was very guilty of doing that I didn't want very guilty of doing that I didn't want very guilty of doing that I didn't want to deal with my stuff so I would hypers

to deal with my stuff so I would hypers to deal with my stuff so I would hypers spiritualize it slap a good Christian spiritualize it slap a good Christian spiritualize it slap a good Christian saying on it and move on the problem is saying on it and move on the problem is saying on it and move on the problem is I wasn't healed I was I wasn't healed I was I wasn't healed I was pretending and so that really made me pretending and so that really made me pretending and so that really made me aware of how crucial it is to make sure aware of how crucial it is to make sure aware of how crucial it is to make sure to fully acknowledge the truth sets us to fully acknowledge the truth sets us to fully acknowledge the truth sets us free and to combine that with good free and to combine that with good free and to combine that with good practices of peeling back the layers of practices of peeling back the layers of practices of peeling back the layers of help that needs to be pursued and yes I help that needs to be pursued and yes I help that needs to be pursued and yes I was the one that was hurt and and for a was the one that was hurt and and for a was the one that was hurt and and for a while it made me kind of feel like I while it made me kind of feel like I while it made me kind of feel like I don't want to give anybody a reason why don't want to give anybody a reason why don't want to give anybody a reason why it was okay to betray me so I don't want it was okay to betray me so I don't want it was okay to betray me so I don't want to present my issues I don't want to to present my issues I don't want to to present my issues I don't want to work on my issues but the thing I had to work on my issues but the thing I had to work on my issues but the thing I had to realize is me acknowledging that I have realize is me acknowledging that I have realize is me acknowledging that I have issues that need to be work on in no way issues that need to be work on in no way issues that need to be work on in no way shape or form does that give the shape or form does that give the shape or form does that give the betrayer permission to have done what betrayer permission to have done what betrayer permission to have done what they did right yeah it gives me an they did right yeah it gives me an they did right yeah it gives me an opportunity to be able to move forward opportunity to be able to move forward opportunity to be able to move forward in a healthy way so that's when I knew in a healthy way so that's when I knew in a healthy way so that's when I knew okay I need to sit with some of these okay I need to sit with some of these okay I need to sit with some of these things one of the most fascinating things one of the most fascinating things one of the most fascinating things I did to work on my issues is and things I did to work on my issues is and things I did to work on my issues is and to make sure I was hypers spiritualizing to make sure I was hypers spiritualizing to make sure I was hypers spiritualizing and just leapfrogging over my need for and just leapfrogging over my need for and just leapfrogging over my need for for healing is my counselor had me do for healing is my counselor had me do for healing is my counselor had me do this thing called the trauma egg and so this thing called the trauma egg and so this thing called the trauma egg and so I got a big piece of white poster board I got a big piece of white poster board I got a big piece of white poster board and I drew an oval like egg shape and and I drew an oval like egg shape and and I drew an oval like egg shape and then I divided that egg up into all then I divided that egg up into all then I divided that egg up into all these little square compartments and

these little square compartments and these little square compartments and then my counselor instructed me in each then my counselor instructed me in each then my counselor instructed me in each little square draw a stick figure scene little square draw a stick figure scene little square draw a stick figure scene of any time that as a child you felt of any time that as a child you felt of any time that as a child you felt abused abandoned rejected hurt that abused abandoned rejected hurt that abused abandoned rejected hurt that there was any kind of like like oh man there was any kind of like like oh man there was any kind of like like oh man I'm less than right and so it could be I'm less than right and so it could be I'm less than right and so it could be simple things like oh in the third grade simple things like oh in the third grade simple things like oh in the third grade somebody made fun of me and told me I somebody made fun of me and told me I somebody made fun of me and told me I was stupid you know so it could be that was stupid you know so it could be that was stupid you know so it could be that um or it could be like yeah my dad left um or it could be like yeah my dad left um or it could be like yeah my dad left our home and and you know never looked our home and and you know never looked our home and and you know never looked back um it could be that my dad was you back um it could be that my dad was you back um it could be that my dad was you know in a mental institution and I know in a mental institution and I know in a mental institution and I thought it was normal for kids to go thought it was normal for kids to go thought it was normal for kids to go visit their dad in a mental institution visit their dad in a mental institution visit their dad in a mental institution on Sundays and then one day my sister on Sundays and then one day my sister on Sundays and then one day my sister went to school and everybody was talking went to school and everybody was talking went to school and everybody was talking about what they did for the weekend and about what they did for the weekend and about what they did for the weekend and she kind of threw out there like oh yeah she kind of threw out there like oh yeah she kind of threw out there like oh yeah like we of course you know we went to like we of course you know we went to like we of course you know we went to visit dad in the mental institution on visit dad in the mental institution on visit dad in the mental institution on Sunday and for the first time my sister Sunday and for the first time my sister Sunday and for the first time my sister and I realized that's not normal other and I realized that's not normal other and I realized that's not normal other kids weren't doing that and so it's kids weren't doing that and so it's kids weren't doing that and so it's anytime there were these little anytime there were these little anytime there were these little betrayals or these little hurt rejection betrayals or these little hurt rejection betrayals or these little hurt rejection feeling like I'm abnormal in any way and feeling like I'm abnormal in any way and feeling like I'm abnormal in any way and so then after I Drew all my little stick so then after I Drew all my little stick so then after I Drew all my little stick figure scenes from childhood to present figure scenes from childhood to present figure scenes from childhood to present day I stood in front of my counselor and day I stood in front of my counselor and day I stood in front of my counselor and I briefly told him the story of each I briefly told him the story of each I briefly told him the story of each picture and I thought the exercise was picture and I thought the exercise was picture and I thought the exercise was just so I could get get things out and just so I could get get things out and just so I could get get things out and so that he could get to know me better so that he could get to know me better so that he could get to know me better but actually what he was looking for is but actually what he was looking for is but actually what he was looking for is a shame script he was looking for

a shame script he was looking for a shame script he was looking for phraseology that I would repeat over and phraseology that I would repeat over and phraseology that I would repeat over and over that indicated a broken belief over that indicated a broken belief over that indicated a broken belief system about myself and after I did that system about myself and after I did that system about myself and after I did that exercise exercise exercise my shame script was Lisa you are an my shame script was Lisa you are an my shame script was Lisa you are an inconvenience to most people so don't inconvenience to most people so don't inconvenience to most people so don't ask other people to do things for you ask other people to do things for you ask other people to do things for you because it'll be too much and you'll run because it'll be too much and you'll run because it'll be too much and you'll run the risk of them rejecting you because the risk of them rejecting you because the risk of them rejecting you because nobody really wants to do anything to nobody really wants to do anything to nobody really wants to do anything to help help help you so you can see if that is the you so you can see if that is the you so you can see if that is the narrative that's feeding so much of how narrative that's feeding so much of how narrative that's feeding so much of how I process what's happening to me that I process what's happening to me that I process what's happening to me that narrative needs to be worked on it's not narrative needs to be worked on it's not narrative needs to be worked on it's not so much the traumas that we go through so much the traumas that we go through so much the traumas that we go through that determine the after effects it's that determine the after effects it's that determine the after effects it's the narrative we say to ourself about the narrative we say to ourself about the narrative we say to ourself about the trauma and what's broken inside of the trauma and what's broken inside of the trauma and what's broken inside of us that invited that into our lives it's us that invited that into our lives it's us that invited that into our lives it's that narrative that often determines how that narrative that often determines how that narrative that often determines how severely we're affected by the things we severely we're affected by the things we severely we're affected by the things we walk walk walk through I would love to know because through I would love to know because through I would love to know because we've known each other for a number of we've known each other for a number of we've known each other for a number of years now and I've spent some time with years now and I've spent some time with years now and I've spent some time with you and your team saw some of them when you and your team saw some of them when you and your team saw some of them when we were getting the interview set up and we were getting the interview set up and we were getting the interview set up and everything what differences do you everything what differences do you everything what differences do you notice as you've gotten healthier and notice as you've gotten healthier and notice as you've gotten healthier and been through all of this what is the been through all of this what is the been through all of this what is the team Dynamic like now how has that team Dynamic like now how has that team Dynamic like now how has that impacted your team that you work with as impacted your team that you work with as impacted your team that you work with as opposed to maybe the way things were six opposed to maybe the way things were six opposed to maybe the way things were six or seven years ago wow I you know or seven years ago wow I you know or seven years ago wow I you know honestly I would love for you at some

honestly I would love for you at some honestly I would love for you at some point to do a round table and ask my point to do a round table and ask my point to do a round table and ask my team that question without me without me team that question without me without me team that question without me without me prepping them at all like I bet you prepping them at all like I bet you prepping them at all like I bet you there's impact Lisa I am not I'm not the there's impact Lisa I am not I'm not the there's impact Lisa I am not I'm not the same leader I was 20 years ago thank same leader I was 20 years ago thank same leader I was 20 years ago thank goodness I would love to hear their goodness I would love to hear their goodness I would love to hear their answer so I say that just to say like answer so I say that just to say like answer so I say that just to say like I'm making an assumption here because I'm making an assumption here because I'm making an assumption here because I've never asked that question yeah so I've never asked that question yeah so I've never asked that question yeah so here's what I I hope that they would say here's what I I hope that they would say here's what I I hope that they would say is Lisa you're so much more is Lisa you're so much more is Lisa you're so much more aware of and in touch with the real pain aware of and in touch with the real pain aware of and in touch with the real pain people are walking people are walking people are walking through you're so much more through you're so much more through you're so much more compassionate compassionate compassionate you are so much better about drawing you are so much better about drawing you are so much better about drawing healthy healthy healthy boundaries so that you recognize that boundaries so that you recognize that boundaries so that you recognize that you have limitations not because you're you have limitations not because you're you have limitations not because you're selfish but because you're selfish but because you're selfish but because you're human human human um and maybe one of the biggest things um and maybe one of the biggest things um and maybe one of the biggest things they would say they would say they would say is that with is that with is that with God I think it's made such a big God I think it's made such a big God I think it's made such a big difference in my life that I now believe difference in my life that I now believe difference in my life that I now believe in the goodness of God like I never have in the goodness of God like I never have in the goodness of God like I never have before and at a speaking engagement before and at a speaking engagement before and at a speaking engagement recently I took the stage and I felt recently I took the stage and I felt recently I took the stage and I felt prompted to ask this prompted to ask this prompted to ask this question what would look different about question what would look different about question what would look different about your life if you really believed in the

your life if you really believed in the your life if you really believed in the goodness of God like how would your life goodness of God like how would your life goodness of God like how would your life change if you really believed in the change if you really believed in the change if you really believed in the goodness of God goodness of God goodness of God and I think my team would say Lisa and I think my team would say Lisa and I think my team would say Lisa really believes in the goodness of God appreciate you sharing that you know God appreciate you sharing that you know I I you got a whole chapter on control I I you got a whole chapter on control I I you got a whole chapter on control right that uh that can be a response right that uh that can be a response right that uh that can be a response that you have as a leader and I look that you have as a leader and I look that you have as a leader and I look back on me and there were so many things back on me and there were so many things back on me and there were so many things I was trying to control both in my I was trying to control both in my I was trying to control both in my family and you know my life got divided family and you know my life got divided family and you know my life got divided in two I feel like pre-b burnout and in two I feel like pre-b burnout and in two I feel like pre-b burnout and post burnout I had a decade and post burnout I had a decade and post burnout I had a decade and leadership before burnout and you know I leadership before burnout and you know I leadership before burnout and you know I was pretty nice but controlling leader was pretty nice but controlling leader was pretty nice but controlling leader and it feels like the last 18 years have and it feels like the last 18 years have and it feels like the last 18 years have been a series of just learning to let go been a series of just learning to let go been a series of just learning to let go learning to let go learning to let go learning to let go learning to let go learning to let go learning to let go I'm wondering did any of those behaviors I'm wondering did any of those behaviors I'm wondering did any of those behaviors those coping those coping those coping mechanisms do you notice that they're mechanisms do you notice that they're mechanisms do you notice that they're gone now that there were things that you gone now that there were things that you gone now that there were things that you tried to do like often there's a lot tried to do like often there's a lot tried to do like often there's a lot that we do as a company and we're a that we do as a company and we're a that we do as a company and we're a really small team that I no longer fully really small team that I no longer fully really small team that I no longer fully understand and I'm okay with that and understand and I'm okay with that and understand and I'm okay with that and it's seems to be going well and that's it's seems to be going well and that's it's seems to be going well and that's because I trust people and before I because I trust people and before I because I trust people and before I always had to my finger into everything always had to my finger into everything always had to my finger into everything that was true at home that was true at that was true at home that was true at that was true at home that was true at work and I'm just learning I'll make work and I'm just learning I'll make work and I'm just learning I'll make that in the present tense to let go to that in the present tense to let go to that in the present tense to let go to let go because as Craig relle says our let go because as Craig relle says our let go because as Craig relle says our friend you know you can have growth or friend you know you can have growth or friend you know you can have growth or you can have control but you can't have you can have control but you can't have you can have control but you can't have both so that's an example from my life both so that's an example from my life both so that's an example from my life are there like tangible behaviors that

are there like tangible behaviors that are there like tangible behaviors that you noticed or your team might notice you noticed or your team might notice you noticed or your team might notice that are different as you continue on that are different as you continue on that are different as you continue on the healing Journey yes well let me the healing Journey yes well let me the healing Journey yes well let me complete let me answer this question by complete let me answer this question by complete let me answer this question by helping to complete the last question so helping to complete the last question so helping to complete the last question so the I gave you all the positive things the I gave you all the positive things the I gave you all the positive things my team might say yeah here's some of my team might say yeah here's some of my team might say yeah here's some of the negative things they might say like the negative things they might say like the negative things they might say like w Lisa is a pro at jumping into being w Lisa is a pro at jumping into being w Lisa is a pro at jumping into being able to verbalize worst case scenario able to verbalize worst case scenario able to verbalize worst case scenario like you give me a situation right now like you give me a situation right now like you give me a situation right now and I can name the worst case scenario and I can name the worst case scenario and I can name the worst case scenario before you can even blink right and so before you can even blink right and so before you can even blink right and so they will say like okay Lisa we know why they will say like okay Lisa we know why they will say like okay Lisa we know why you're doing this but uh let's let's you're doing this but uh let's let's you're doing this but uh let's let's don't jump to that extreme like this don't jump to that extreme like this don't jump to that extreme like this probably isn't going to be worst case probably isn't going to be worst case probably isn't going to be worst case scenario and it today and it may not be scenario and it today and it may not be scenario and it today and it may not be best case scenario today but just for best case scenario today but just for best case scenario today but just for today can we bring the thoughts back today can we bring the thoughts back today can we bring the thoughts back into the middle right and so there are into the middle right and so there are into the middle right and so there are things that my team is like okay we know things that my team is like okay we know things that my team is like okay we know why you're doing this but why you're doing this but why you're doing this but also let's not let's not Park our brain also let's not let's not Park our brain also let's not let's not Park our brain there right and so I so to get to this there right and so I so to get to this there right and so I so to get to this question question question now I think as a team as as we move now I think as a team as as we move now I think as a team as as we move forward I think we have to forward I think we have to forward I think we have to recognize that trust is going to require recognize that trust is going to require recognize that trust is going to require safety and connection and so we want a safety and connection and so we want a safety and connection and so we want a safe environment where the connections safe environment where the connections safe environment where the connections within our team Dynamic are being fed

within our team Dynamic are being fed within our team Dynamic are being fed and safety is being instilled constantly and safety is being instilled constantly and safety is being instilled constantly because what we don't trust we will try because what we don't trust we will try because what we don't trust we will try to to to control and so if the trust starts to control and so if the trust starts to control and so if the trust starts to erod in our team Dynamic then it's only erod in our team Dynamic then it's only erod in our team Dynamic then it's only natural to try to take control because natural to try to take control because natural to try to take control because things feel out of control here's things feel out of control here's things feel out of control here's something profound that Joel mamal Dr something profound that Joel mamal Dr something profound that Joel mamal Dr Joel mamal who works on my team we work Joel mamal who works on my team we work Joel mamal who works on my team we work directly together all the time here's directly together all the time here's directly together all the time here's something that he said to me that I something that he said to me that I something that he said to me that I really found incredibly profound he said really found incredibly profound he said really found incredibly profound he said Lisa Lisa Lisa sometimes if one of us is trying to take sometimes if one of us is trying to take sometimes if one of us is trying to take control because what we don't trust we control because what we don't trust we control because what we don't trust we try to control sometimes it's because try to control sometimes it's because try to control sometimes it's because we're trying to be responsible to make we're trying to be responsible to make we're trying to be responsible to make up for what we fear is an up for what we fear is an up for what we fear is an irresponsibility in someone else but irresponsibility in someone else but irresponsibility in someone else but there's a big difference between being there's a big difference between being there's a big difference between being responsible like being a faithful responsible like being a faithful responsible like being a faithful Steward of this thing that's in front of Steward of this thing that's in front of Steward of this thing that's in front of us and taking control and the quicker we us and taking control and the quicker we us and taking control and the quicker we know the difference like it's good to be know the difference like it's good to be know the difference like it's good to be responsible and that means that we do responsible and that means that we do responsible and that means that we do what is within our ability to do but what is within our ability to do but what is within our ability to do but where you tip over into trying to where you tip over into trying to where you tip over into trying to control is where you're not only doing control is where you're not only doing control is where you're not only doing what you you know you can do but you what you you know you can do but you what you you know you can do but you start attempting to do things that are start attempting to do things that are start attempting to do things that are beyond your ability to control but you beyond your ability to control but you beyond your ability to control but you think you're going to try to control it think you're going to try to control it think you're going to try to control it anyways but that's where you slip into anyways but that's where you slip into anyways but that's where you slip into manipulation that's where you slip into manipulation that's where you slip into manipulation that's where you slip into you know like being more severe with you know like being more severe with you know like being more severe with people's consequences you know and

people's consequences you know and people's consequences you know and that's where team dysfunction can really that's where team dysfunction can really that's where team dysfunction can really grow I was really interested in your are grow I was really interested in your are grow I was really interested in your are there 11 red flags associated with trust there 11 red flags associated with trust there 11 red flags associated with trust because some of them were were you know because some of them were were you know because some of them were were you know oh yeah of course and then some of them oh yeah of course and then some of them oh yeah of course and then some of them were like so subtle could you I don't were like so subtle could you I don't were like so subtle could you I don't know that we have time for all 11 but know that we have time for all 11 but know that we have time for all 11 but could you pull a few maybe could you pull a few maybe could you pull a few maybe unlikely red flags that maybe a lot of unlikely red flags that maybe a lot of unlikely red flags that maybe a lot of us would just miss and go like oh that's us would just miss and go like oh that's us would just miss and go like oh that's a trust issue this this if this is a trust issue this this if this is a trust issue this this if this is present I should be worry about the present I should be worry about the present I should be worry about the trust I put in an individual oh trust I put in an individual oh trust I put in an individual oh absolutely and here's the interesting absolutely and here's the interesting absolutely and here's the interesting thing about these red flags is not only thing about these red flags is not only thing about these red flags is not only are they red flags when we're stepping are they red flags when we're stepping are they red flags when we're stepping into a relationship that we need to look into a relationship that we need to look into a relationship that we need to look for or maybe mid relationship but if we for or maybe mid relationship but if we for or maybe mid relationship but if we examine these These are also the roots examine these These are also the roots examine these These are also the roots of distrust in a relationship so of distrust in a relationship so of distrust in a relationship so sometimes it's like we say the statement sometimes it's like we say the statement sometimes it's like we say the statement like oh I don't trust you and that can like oh I don't trust you and that can like oh I don't trust you and that can mean a lot of things that can mean like mean a lot of things that can mean like mean a lot of things that can mean like I don't trust you to pick something up I don't trust you to pick something up I don't trust you to pick something up at the grocery store that's one level of at the grocery store that's one level of at the grocery store that's one level of I don't trust you or it could mean I I don't trust you or it could mean I I don't trust you or it could mean I don't trust that you really are who you don't trust that you really are who you don't trust that you really are who you say you are that's a whole another level say you are that's a whole another level say you are that's a whole another level of I don't trust you but so it's it's of I don't trust you but so it's it's of I don't trust you but so it's it's important for us to take that feeling important for us to take that feeling important for us to take that feeling like I don't trust that person and like I don't trust that person and like I don't trust that person and through this process of examining these through this process of examining these through this process of examining these red flags we can actually discover roots red flags we can actually discover roots red flags we can actually discover roots of distrust and where it's coming from of distrust and where it's coming from of distrust and where it's coming from and then we can assess how serious it is and then we can assess how serious it is and then we can assess how serious it is based on how much it impacts us so let

based on how much it impacts us so let based on how much it impacts us so let me give you a couple of them um okay me give you a couple of them um okay me give you a couple of them um okay well red flag number one in congruity so well red flag number one in congruity so well red flag number one in congruity so this is one that's a little more obvious this is one that's a little more obvious this is one that's a little more obvious and it's a big in my estimation it's a and it's a big in my estimation it's a and it's a big in my estimation it's a very big deal and incongruity is this very big deal and incongruity is this very big deal and incongruity is this person wants people to perceive them one person wants people to perceive them one person wants people to perceive them one way but then they act in a completely way but then they act in a completely way but then they act in a completely different way their words don't match different way their words don't match different way their words don't match the way they actually live on a the way they actually live on a the way they actually live on a day-to-day basis in other words their day-to-day basis in other words their day-to-day basis in other words their insides don't match their outsides insides don't match their outsides insides don't match their outsides okay so an example of this could be okay so an example of this could be okay so an example of this could be someone says that they're someone says that they're someone says that they're hardworking and yet at the same time hardworking and yet at the same time hardworking and yet at the same time they don't have a job and there's always they don't have a job and there's always they don't have a job and there's always an excuse why it's someone else's fault an excuse why it's someone else's fault an excuse why it's someone else's fault they expect others to provide for them they expect others to provide for them they expect others to provide for them um so they can live the lifestyle they um so they can live the lifestyle they um so they can live the lifestyle they desire but yet they say like oh I'm I'm desire but yet they say like oh I'm I'm desire but yet they say like oh I'm I'm a hard worker man you know that a hard worker man you know that a hard worker man you know that incongruity makes people really doubtful incongruity makes people really doubtful incongruity makes people really doubtful like something's not matching up here like something's not matching up here like something's not matching up here another example is they say they're another example is they say they're another example is they say they're taking seriously their doctor's advice taking seriously their doctor's advice taking seriously their doctor's advice to eat healthy but their credit card to eat healthy but their credit card to eat healthy but their credit card statement reveals a lot of trips to fast statement reveals a lot of trips to fast statement reveals a lot of trips to fast food food food restaurants there's like an in congruity restaurants there's like an in congruity restaurants there's like an in congruity there okay let's look at another one um there okay let's look at another one um there okay let's look at another one um let's look at let's look at let's look at inconsistency this person makes you feel inconsistency this person makes you feel inconsistency this person makes you feel on edge because you never know what on edge because you never know what on edge because you never know what version of them you'll get on any given version of them you'll get on any given version of them you'll get on any given day sometimes they're kind but sometimes day sometimes they're kind but sometimes day sometimes they're kind but sometimes they're not sometimes they act like they they're not sometimes they act like they they're not sometimes they act like they love you but sometimes they seem cold love you but sometimes they seem cold love you but sometimes they seem cold and indifferent I mean we all have bad

and indifferent I mean we all have bad and indifferent I mean we all have bad days sometimes right but this is more of days sometimes right but this is more of days sometimes right but this is more of a pattern of Duality that confuses you a pattern of Duality that confuses you a pattern of Duality that confuses you and makes the relationship feel and makes the relationship feel and makes the relationship feel unstable wow SE that many times yeah and unstable wow SE that many times yeah and unstable wow SE that many times yeah and that one that one's really hard for me that one that one's really hard for me that one that one's really hard for me too because I understand we all have bad too because I understand we all have bad too because I understand we all have bad days but I don't want to see a pattern days but I don't want to see a pattern days but I don't want to see a pattern of duality in people it it almost is of duality in people it it almost is of duality in people it it almost is like which pick a name you know which like which pick a name you know which like which pick a name you know which William is going to show up today right William is going to show up today right William is going to show up today right is going to be happy William or angry is going to be happy William or angry is going to be happy William or angry William and you know you have no idea William and you know you have no idea William and you know you have no idea which one's going to show up yeah and which one's going to show up yeah and which one's going to show up yeah and here's a couple ways that this plays out here's a couple ways that this plays out here's a couple ways that this plays out in everyday life this in everyday life this in everyday life this inconsistency um the stories they tell inconsistency um the stories they tell inconsistency um the stories they tell differ in truth and accuracy depending differ in truth and accuracy depending differ in truth and accuracy depending on the audience that's hard right here's audience that's hard right here's another one their mood or behavior another one their mood or behavior another one their mood or behavior changes drastically depending on their changes drastically depending on their changes drastically depending on their circumstance they are easily enticed to circumstance they are easily enticed to circumstance they are easily enticed to act in healthy ways when things aren't act in healthy ways when things aren't act in healthy ways when things aren't going well for going well for going well for them so it's like yeah they're super them so it's like yeah they're super them so it's like yeah they're super like biblical and their words reflect like biblical and their words reflect like biblical and their words reflect like a beautiful heart when things are like a beautiful heart when things are like a beautiful heart when things are going well but when things don't get going well but when things don't get going well but when things don't get well uh don't go well and they're like well uh don't go well and they're like well uh don't go well and they're like poked and they're caught off guard a poked and they're caught off guard a poked and they're caught off guard a little bit what spills out of their little bit what spills out of their little bit what spills out of their mouth is often a reflection of what's mouth is often a reflection of what's mouth is often a reflection of what's really stored up in their heart was really stored up in their heart was really stored up in their heart was there a red flag around reliability as there a red flag around reliability as there a red flag around reliability as well I seem to remember that one you well I seem to remember that one you well I seem to remember that one you might have used a different term but

might have used a different term but might have used a different term but like you give someone a job and they like you give someone a job and they like you give someone a job and they just don't get it done yeah there's a just don't get it done yeah there's a just don't get it done yeah there's a couple of them um one there is couple of them um one there is couple of them um one there is incompetence now right incompetence is incompetence now right incompetence is incompetence now right incompetence is kind of tricky this person says they're kind of tricky this person says they're kind of tricky this person says they're capable of doing something that you capable of doing something that you capable of doing something that you already know they do not have the already know they do not have the already know they do not have the training experience or track record to training experience or track record to training experience or track record to carry out they won't acknowledge their carry out they won't acknowledge their carry out they won't acknowledge their inability until it becomes a problem too inability until it becomes a problem too inability until it becomes a problem too big to deny they try to compensate for big to deny they try to compensate for big to deny they try to compensate for their lack of ability with convincing their lack of ability with convincing their lack of ability with convincing conversations about their progress but conversations about their progress but conversations about their progress but behind the scenes things are not behind the scenes things are not behind the scenes things are not happening like they should be okay yeah happening like they should be okay yeah happening like they should be okay yeah like the guy who wired up the uh like the guy who wired up the uh like the guy who wired up the uh backyard lights in the water heater in backyard lights in the water heater in backyard lights in the water heater in your house if that was actually a your house if that was actually a your house if that was actually a contractor error exactly like did you contractor error exactly like did you contractor error exactly like did you get trained in this or did you just get trained in this or did you just get trained in this or did you just watch a YouTube video and charge me a watch a YouTube video and charge me a watch a YouTube video and charge me a bunch of money okay here's another one bunch of money okay here's another one bunch of money okay here's another one this is red flag number 10 this is red flag number 10 this is red flag number 10 irresponsibility this person is reckless irresponsibility this person is reckless irresponsibility this person is reckless they tend to gravitate toward doing they tend to gravitate toward doing they tend to gravitate toward doing something fun over taking care of something fun over taking care of something fun over taking care of business it's not not that they're business it's not not that they're business it's not not that they're necessarily spiteful but they don't take necessarily spiteful but they don't take necessarily spiteful but they don't take things as seriously as they should they things as seriously as they should they things as seriously as they should they aren't a good judge for how long aren't a good judge for how long aren't a good judge for how long something will take to accomplish something will take to accomplish something will take to accomplish they're easily distracted from what's they're easily distracted from what's they're easily distracted from what's most important so they can enjoy most important so they can enjoy most important so they can enjoy whatever comes up in the moment and whatever comes up in the moment and whatever comes up in the moment and irresponsibility for me the reason this irresponsibility for me the reason this irresponsibility for me the reason this red flag scares me so much is because red flag scares me so much is because red flag scares me so much is because ultimately I'm afraid of looking ultimately I'm afraid of looking ultimately I'm afraid of looking irresponsible I'm afraid of looking irresponsible I'm afraid of looking irresponsible I'm afraid of looking stupid and if their actions are any kind stupid and if their actions are any kind stupid and if their actions are any kind of a

of a of a reflection that this is how I would do reflection that this is how I would do reflection that this is how I would do things too that's really hard for me to things too that's really hard for me to things too that's really hard for me to process for example they say that process for example they say that process for example they say that they're going to pay an important bill they're going to pay an important bill they're going to pay an important bill on time but when you get the final on time but when you get the final on time but when you get the final notice and realize that they hadn't notice and realize that they hadn't notice and realize that they hadn't taken it seriously it's not just that taken it seriously it's not just that taken it seriously it's not just that they were irresponsible it's that now they were irresponsible it's that now they were irresponsible it's that now it's making you look bad now it could it's making you look bad now it could it's making you look bad now it could affect your credit right another one is affect your credit right another one is affect your credit right another one is they express a desire to put the kids to they express a desire to put the kids to they express a desire to put the kids to bed with you every night but more time bed with you every night but more time bed with you every night but more time times than not they get caught up in times than not they get caught up in times than not they get caught up in watching a game and instead you do it watching a game and instead you do it watching a game and instead you do it alone over and over and over so yeah and alone over and over and over so yeah and alone over and over and over so yeah and you can see many scenarios how that you can see many scenarios how that you can see many scenarios how that would play out in a work environment you would play out in a work environment you would play out in a work environment you know all of those red flags it reminds know all of those red flags it reminds know all of those red flags it reminds me I heard this years ago from Andy me I heard this years ago from Andy me I heard this years ago from Andy Stanley it's the simplest definition of Stanley it's the simplest definition of Stanley it's the simplest definition of trust I've ever heard and I think it trust I've ever heard and I think it trust I've ever heard and I think it plays out it's just Andy would say trust plays out it's just Andy would say trust plays out it's just Andy would say trust is confidence it's confidence said you is confidence it's confidence said you is confidence it's confidence said you were going to pay the bill you said you were going to pay the bill you said you were going to pay the bill you said you got the job done um confidence that the got the job done um confidence that the got the job done um confidence that the person who shows up is the same person person who shows up is the same person person who shows up is the same person every day confidence that they're not every day confidence that they're not every day confidence that they're not lying you know you talked about a lying you know you talked about a lying you know you talked about a suitcase with you know roller Wheels suitcase with you know roller Wheels suitcase with you know roller Wheels going away from you was a trigger for going away from you was a trigger for going away from you was a trigger for you because it made you think oh no oh you because it made you think oh no oh you because it made you think oh no oh no what's going to happen when I can't no what's going to happen when I can't no what's going to happen when I can't see my husband is this going to go bad see my husband is this going to go bad see my husband is this going to go bad but it's that confidence knowing that but it's that confidence knowing that but it's that confidence knowing that hey even when we're a thousand miles hey even when we're a thousand miles hey even when we're a thousand miles away or on opposite sides of the world I away or on opposite sides of the world I away or on opposite sides of the world I don't have to worry about you mhm don't have to worry about you mhm don't have to worry about you mhm because what you say is what you do and because what you say is what you do and because what you say is what you do and what you do is what you say um does that

what you do is what you say um does that what you do is what you say um does that does that check out like just for an does that check out like just for an does that check out like just for an easy quick definition confidence yeah it easy quick definition confidence yeah it easy quick definition confidence yeah it really does because here's something really does because here's something really does because here's something else that I wrote In the book my else that I wrote In the book my else that I wrote In the book my personal definition of healthy trust personal definition of healthy trust personal definition of healthy trust with another person is that I can count with another person is that I can count with another person is that I can count on them right exactly right so that's on them right exactly right so that's on them right exactly right so that's confidence and then to break it down and confidence and then to break it down and confidence and then to break it down and autopsy it even more it's I know I want autopsy it even more it's I know I want autopsy it even more it's I know I want to be able to count on them to be who to be able to count on them to be who to be able to count on them to be who they say they are to do what they say they say they are to do what they say they say they are to do what they say they're going to do to show up with care they're going to do to show up with care they're going to do to show up with care and compassion to tell the truth and to and compassion to tell the truth and to and compassion to tell the truth and to use good judgment and biblical wisdom use good judgment and biblical wisdom use good judgment and biblical wisdom with their with their with their decisions and so for me I think it's decisions and so for me I think it's decisions and so for me I think it's really important for us to say yeah really important for us to say yeah really important for us to say yeah let's say trust is confidence okay but let's say trust is confidence okay but let's say trust is confidence okay but now you personally Define confidence for now you personally Define confidence for now you personally Define confidence for what and what is it that you really need what and what is it that you really need what and what is it that you really need because of your own unique wiring because of your own unique wiring because of your own unique wiring because of your story your origin story because of your story your origin story because of your story your origin story your your family of origin story because your your family of origin story because your your family of origin story because of past rejections youve walked through of past rejections youve walked through of past rejections youve walked through because of you know different scenarios because of you know different scenarios because of you know different scenarios that that you've been in because of that that that you've been in because of that that that you've been in because of that shame script or that that belief system shame script or that that belief system shame script or that that belief system you have to fight against about because you have to fight against about because you have to fight against about because of your own insecurity whatever it is of your own insecurity whatever it is of your own insecurity whatever it is like make this personal to you and then like make this personal to you and then like make this personal to you and then talk about talk about talk about it so I would love to have you speak to it so I would love to have you speak to it so I would love to have you speak to leaders who've had their trust shattered leaders who've had their trust shattered leaders who've had their trust shattered over and over and over again I mean

over and over and over again I mean over and over and over again I mean that's been your personal experience that's been your personal experience that's been your personal experience through friendships through a marriage through friendships through a marriage through friendships through a marriage that reconciled and then died etc etc that reconciled and then died etc etc that reconciled and then died etc etc you know and yet here you are trusting you know and yet here you are trusting you know and yet here you are trusting again hoping again believing again hoping again believing again hoping again believing again what would you say to the leaders again what would you say to the leaders again what would you say to the leaders who are right on the edge going I got a who are right on the edge going I got a who are right on the edge going I got a story to match yours maybe worse you story to match yours maybe worse you story to match yours maybe worse you know and not not we're not playing that know and not not we're not playing that know and not not we're not playing that game but you know what I mean but who game but you know what I mean but who game but you know what I mean but who are who are hanging on by a thread right are who are hanging on by a thread right are who are hanging on by a thread right now and feel like they can't trust again now and feel like they can't trust again now and feel like they can't trust again they can't hope again what what is they can't hope again what what is they can't hope again what what is something they could focus on or do something they could focus on or do something they could focus on or do right now to help write a different right now to help write a different right now to help write a different ending to that story rather than just ending to that story rather than just ending to that story rather than just quitting throwing in the towel like you quitting throwing in the towel like you quitting throwing in the towel like you could have just you know and that's could have just you know and that's could have just you know and that's that's let let me ask you this question that's let let me ask you this question that's let let me ask you this question then we'll get to that question why then we'll get to that question why then we'll get to that question why didn't you just quit I had that written didn't you just quit I had that written didn't you just quit I had that written down in my notes why didn't you just say down in my notes why didn't you just say down in my notes why didn't you just say you know what proverbs 31 I'm done I I'm you know what proverbs 31 I'm done I I'm you know what proverbs 31 I'm done I I'm going to go sell insurance or I'm going going to go sell insurance or I'm going going to go sell insurance or I'm going to open a coffee shop I'm I'm done why to open a coffee shop I'm I'm done why to open a coffee shop I'm I'm done why did you not I'm sure you thought about did you not I'm sure you thought about did you not I'm sure you thought about it maybe you didn't I would have thought it maybe you didn't I would have thought it maybe you didn't I would have thought about it oh I absolutely did my thing about it oh I absolutely did my thing about it oh I absolutely did my thing was I just want to move to Montana and was I just want to move to Montana and was I just want to move to Montana and become a waitress I'm not sure why that become a waitress I'm not sure why that become a waitress I'm not sure why that was my go-to statement but I said it was my go-to statement but I said it was my go-to statement but I said it over and over and over not a bad plan over and over and over not a bad plan over and over and over not a bad plan I've been to Montana and uh and I I even I've been to Montana and uh and I I even I've been to Montana and uh and I I even said this to a leader like I was just said this to a leader like I was just said this to a leader like I was just saying like I'm so exhausted personally saying like I'm so exhausted personally saying like I'm so exhausted personally professionally I'm I'm growing so professionally I'm I'm growing so professionally I'm I'm growing so skeptical I feel like the the when is skeptical I feel like the the when is skeptical I feel like the the when is the shoe going to drop even with my best the shoe going to drop even with my best the shoe going to drop even with my best of best friends like are they all

of best friends like are they all of best friends like are they all eventually gonna betray me is is trust eventually gonna betray me is is trust eventually gonna betray me is is trust just a Fool's game you know where just a Fool's game you know where just a Fool's game you know where everybody is going to wind up just being everybody is going to wind up just being everybody is going to wind up just being self-seeking self-preserving and who self-seeking self-preserving and who self-seeking self-preserving and who cares a flip about being honest you know cares a flip about being honest you know cares a flip about being honest you know I'd gotten to the place where I was I'd gotten to the place where I was I'd gotten to the place where I was quietly quitting on hope that's what I quietly quitting on hope that's what I quietly quitting on hope that's what I was doing like I was going through the was doing like I was going through the was doing like I was going through the motions on the inside but it's really motions on the inside but it's really motions on the inside but it's really hard to walk toward a future that you hard to walk toward a future that you hard to walk toward a future that you don't want and that's that was a thing don't want and that's that was a thing don't want and that's that was a thing that was making me kind of quietly quit that was making me kind of quietly quit that was making me kind of quietly quit on hope hope can be the most brutal risk on hope hope can be the most brutal risk on hope hope can be the most brutal risk of all because to dare to Hope means to of all because to dare to Hope means to of all because to dare to Hope means to make make make vulnerable the greatest desires you have vulnerable the greatest desires you have vulnerable the greatest desires you have and potentially also making you face and potentially also making you face and potentially also making you face some of the greatest disappointments you some of the greatest disappointments you some of the greatest disappointments you have and so I express to a have and so I express to a have and so I express to a leader I'm tired I think I just want to leader I'm tired I think I just want to leader I'm tired I think I just want to move to Montana and become a waitress move to Montana and become a waitress move to Montana and become a waitress and he sat there for a minute and he and he sat there for a minute and he and he sat there for a minute and he goes okay that's an option for you and goes okay that's an option for you and goes okay that's an option for you and then like can I can I share with you then like can I can I share with you then like can I can I share with you what will happen if you do that and I what will happen if you do that and I what will happen if you do that and I was expecting him to say there are was expecting him to say there are was expecting him to say there are hundreds of people you know who won't hundreds of people you know who won't hundreds of people you know who won't hear your message and you know like God hear your message and you know like God hear your message and you know like God you know God has set you up for Ministry you know God has set you up for Ministry you know God has set you up for Ministry you're You're Made for This like come on you're You're Made for This like come on you're You're Made for This like come on you can do it he didn't say any of that you can do it he didn't say any of that you can do it he didn't say any of that he said uh let me just share with you he said uh let me just share with you he said uh let me just share with you what will happen if you move to Montana what will happen if you move to Montana what will happen if you move to Montana and become a waitress he said you'll and become a waitress he said you'll and become a waitress he said you'll move to you'll become a waitress and move to you'll become a waitress and move to you'll become a waitress and soon you'll recognize that there are

soon you'll recognize that there are soon you'll recognize that there are broken systems in the restaurant so broken systems in the restaurant so broken systems in the restaurant so you're going to set up new systems and you're going to set up new systems and you're going to set up new systems and new strategies for the restaurant to new strategies for the restaurant to new strategies for the restaurant to become more effective and then the become more effective and then the become more effective and then the district manager is going to be district manager is going to be district manager is going to be impressed by your systems and strategies impressed by your systems and strategies impressed by your systems and strategies and they're going to promote you to and they're going to promote you to and they're going to promote you to district manager when you're district district manager when you're district district manager when you're district manager you're going to set up systems manager you're going to set up systems manager you're going to set up systems and strategies and better Communications and strategies and better Communications and strategies and better Communications for all the other restaurants in your for all the other restaurants in your for all the other restaurants in your area and soon corporate's going to take area and soon corporate's going to take area and soon corporate's going to take notice and when corporate takes notice notice and when corporate takes notice notice and when corporate takes notice they bring you to Corp corporate office they bring you to Corp corporate office they bring you to Corp corporate office and soon you're going to be promoted and soon you're going to be promoted and soon you're going to be promoted into the executive leadership of that into the executive leadership of that into the executive leadership of that restaurant chain and guess what in that restaurant chain and guess what in that restaurant chain and guess what in that process you're going to get hurt you're process you're going to get hurt you're process you're going to get hurt you're going to be lied to you're going to be going to be lied to you're going to be going to be lied to you're going to be betrayed you are going to face the same betrayed you are going to face the same betrayed you are going to face the same situations that you're facing so let's situations that you're facing so let's situations that you're facing so let's not move to Montana and become a not move to Montana and become a not move to Montana and become a waitress let's step into what God has waitress let's step into what God has waitress let's step into what God has called you to right now and let's called you to right now and let's called you to right now and let's remember there's still really good remember there's still really good remember there's still really good people in this world and Lisa don't live people in this world and Lisa don't live people in this world and Lisa don't live your life and reduce your life down to your life and reduce your life down to your life and reduce your life down to the limitations of living hurt don't do the limitations of living hurt don't do the limitations of living hurt don't do that those people that hurt that those people that hurt that those people that hurt you you you like they hurt you acknowledge that but like they hurt you acknowledge that but like they hurt you acknowledge that but also recognize they don't have the power also recognize they don't have the power also recognize they don't have the power to make you quit you have the power to to make you quit you have the power to to make you quit you have the power to make you quit so if you quit let it be make you quit so if you quit let it be make you quit so if you quit let it be because you decided to do that not because you decided to do that not because you decided to do that not because you felt forced into it from the because you felt forced into it from the because you felt forced into it from the decisions of other people no person is decisions of other people no person is decisions of other people no person is more powerful than God no person can

more powerful than God no person can more powerful than God no person can mess up they can affect you they can mess up they can affect you they can mess up they can affect you they can hurt you but no person has the ability hurt you but no person has the ability hurt you but no person has the ability to override God's good plan for to override God's good plan for to override God's good plan for you and that really got my you and that really got my you and that really got my attention yeah I don't know who that was attention yeah I don't know who that was attention yeah I don't know who that was but but but they did what they needed to do that day they did what they needed to do that day they did what they needed to do that day and I don't know what else there is to and I don't know what else there is to and I don't know what else there is to say to leaders who are tempted to quit say to leaders who are tempted to quit say to leaders who are tempted to quit because you're exactly right right like because you're exactly right right like because you're exactly right right like I've had my fantasy was I was going to I've had my fantasy was I was going to I've had my fantasy was I was going to stack boxes at a warehouse that was mine stack boxes at a warehouse that was mine stack boxes at a warehouse that was mine when I was in the ditch and you're right when I was in the ditch and you're right when I was in the ditch and you're right I never thought about that I'd probably I never thought about that I'd probably I never thought about that I'd probably get get get promoted and there'd be all the other promoted and there'd be all the other promoted and there'd be all the other issues wow wow Lisa been so helpful so issues wow wow Lisa been so helpful so issues wow wow Lisa been so helpful so good so rich is there a final word any good so rich is there a final word any good so rich is there a final word any other thought you have that you want to other thought you have that you want to other thought you have that you want to share today before we wrap up I I just share today before we wrap up I I just share today before we wrap up I I just say you say you say you know a lot of people like to say to me know a lot of people like to say to me know a lot of people like to say to me Lisa don't you feel like exhausted Lisa don't you feel like exhausted Lisa don't you feel like exhausted because you must have a Target on your because you must have a Target on your because you must have a Target on your back like you being so visible in back like you being so visible in back like you being so visible in Ministry don't you think maybe like Ministry don't you think maybe like Ministry don't you think maybe like that's part of what invites all this that's part of what invites all this that's part of what invites all this hurt and heartbreak into your life hurt and heartbreak into your life hurt and heartbreak into your life and I I hesitate when people say that and I I hesitate when people say that and I I hesitate when people say that because yes there is spiritual work Fair because yes there is spiritual work Fair because yes there is spiritual work Fair 100% but I think that's giving the devil 100% but I think that's giving the devil 100% but I think that's giving the devil too much credit here's what I think I too much credit here's what I think I too much credit here's what I think I think in God's Great mercy and his great

think in God's Great mercy and his great think in God's Great mercy and his great love for me he saw all that I was going love for me he saw all that I was going love for me he saw all that I was going to walk through and how good of God to to walk through and how good of God to to walk through and how good of God to put me in a position 30 years ago where put me in a position 30 years ago where put me in a position 30 years ago where he would make my full-time job studying he would make my full-time job studying he would make my full-time job studying the the the Bible and how good of God to make sure Bible and how good of God to make sure Bible and how good of God to make sure that by the time I walk through the that by the time I walk through the that by the time I walk through the worst betrayal that I ever feared and worst betrayal that I ever feared and worst betrayal that I ever feared and then walked through how good of God to then walked through how good of God to then walked through how good of God to have allowed me to have a lot in my bank have allowed me to have a lot in my bank have allowed me to have a lot in my bank to pull to pull to pull from so yeah I'm sure I have a Target on from so yeah I'm sure I have a Target on from so yeah I'm sure I have a Target on my back but even more so man I serve a my back but even more so man I serve a my back but even more so man I serve a good God who put me in a position to good God who put me in a position to good God who put me in a position to grow and develop leadership skills and grow and develop leadership skills and grow and develop leadership skills and to learn how to be courageous in the to learn how to be courageous in the to learn how to be courageous in the face of hardship and to learn how to face of hardship and to learn how to face of hardship and to learn how to do it publicly because there were a lot do it publicly because there were a lot do it publicly because there were a lot of micro betrayals before I faced this of micro betrayals before I faced this of micro betrayals before I faced this one big betrayal like I don't know I one big betrayal like I don't know I one big betrayal like I don't know I just sometimes I think we give the devil just sometimes I think we give the devil just sometimes I think we give the devil too much credit and maybe we need to too much credit and maybe we need to too much credit and maybe we need to filter our our thoughts by the fact that filter our our thoughts by the fact that filter our our thoughts by the fact that God is good therefore Trace his hand of God is good therefore Trace his hand of God is good therefore Trace his hand of faithfulness in your past and faithfulness in your past and faithfulness in your past and name how the goodness of God has surely name how the goodness of God has surely name how the goodness of God has surely played out then and will play out again played out then and will play out again played out then and will play out again right right right now Lisa this has been a fascinating now Lisa this has been a fascinating now Lisa this has been a fascinating discussion I always love our discussion I always love our discussion I always love our conversations thank you for your conversations thank you for your conversations thank you for your vulnerability your transparency and for vulnerability your transparency and for vulnerability your transparency and for sharing so personally with leaders today sharing so personally with leaders today sharing so personally with leaders today I know you've been an encouragement to a

I know you've been an encouragement to a I know you've been an encouragement to a lot of people so you got a brand new lot of people so you got a brand new lot of people so you got a brand new book a great title as always with you I book a great title as always with you I book a great title as always with you I want to trust uh book is called I want want to trust uh book is called I want want to trust uh book is called I want to trust you but I don't it's available to trust you but I don't it's available to trust you but I don't it's available everywhere and if people want to find everywhere and if people want to find everywhere and if people want to find you online these days where's a good you online these days where's a good you online these days where's a good place to stay current with you well place to stay current with you well place to stay current with you well you'll find all kinds of Shenanigans of you'll find all kinds of Shenanigans of you'll find all kinds of Shenanigans of Lisa Lisa Lisa turkers wisdom bites and my Adventures turkers wisdom bites and my Adventures turkers wisdom bites and my Adventures to Goodwill stores that's my new to Goodwill stores that's my new to Goodwill stores that's my new passionate hobby I love going but you passionate hobby I love going but you passionate hobby I love going but you can follow me along at Instagram and um can follow me along at Instagram and um can follow me along at Instagram and um on Instagram I'm Lisa turkers so just on Instagram I'm Lisa turkers so just on Instagram I'm Lisa turkers so just Google Lysa I'll come up and you'll find Google Lysa I'll come up and you'll find Google Lysa I'll come up and you'll find me Lisa till next time thank you so much me Lisa till next time thank you so much me Lisa till next time thank you so much you're so welcome Carrie thank you