How AI Will Change Church Giving (And What You Should Do Now)

There is a coming crisis and when do you There is a coming crisis and when do you prepare for a crisis? You know, not when prepare for a crisis? You know, not when prepare for a crisis? You know, not when it starts. it starts. it starts. >> Right. Right. What would you be doing on >> Right. Right. What would you be doing on >> Right. Right. What would you be doing on that? I kind of say if you're Joseph, that? I kind of say if you're Joseph, that? I kind of say if you're Joseph, like these are the seven good years, like these are the seven good years, like these are the seven good years, store some grain. Store some grain. store some grain. Store some grain. store some grain. Store some grain. Store some grain. What would you do? Store some grain. What would you do? Store some grain. What would you do? >> Well, you know, I I would just agree >> Well, you know, I I would just agree >> Well, you know, I I would just agree with that, right? You know, how much with that, right? You know, how much with that, right? You know, how much buffer do you have in your budget? If buffer do you have in your budget? If buffer do you have in your budget? If it's not 9 months, you're not doing your it's not 9 months, you're not doing your it's not 9 months, you're not doing your job, right? You know, create some job, right? You know, create some job, right? You know, create some capacity in your budgets now, right? you capacity in your budgets now, right? you capacity in your budgets now, right? you know, because you know, when it hits, know, because you know, when it hits, know, because you know, when it hits, you have no room for capacity. you have no room for capacity. you have no room for capacity. >> Welcome to the Carrie New Hoff >> Welcome to the Carrie New Hoff >> Welcome to the Carrie New Hoff Leadership Podcast. Hey, I'm so glad to Leadership Podcast. Hey, I'm so glad to Leadership Podcast. Hey, I'm so glad to be bringing you this episode right from be bringing you this episode right from be bringing you this episode right from Silicon Valley. We're in Palo Alto. And Silicon Valley. We're in Palo Alto. And Silicon Valley. We're in Palo Alto. And today I sit down with Pat Gellzinger. He today I sit down with Pat Gellzinger. He today I sit down with Pat Gellzinger. He has 4 and a half decades of experience. has 4 and a half decades of experience. has 4 and a half decades of experience. [music] He has been the CEO of Intel, [music] He has been the CEO of Intel, [music] He has been the CEO of Intel, the CEO of VMware. He is currently head the CEO of VMware. He is currently head the CEO of VMware. He is currently head of technology and one of the early early of technology and one of the early early of technology and one of the early early people in Glue, a company that exists to people in Glue, a company that exists to people in Glue, a company that exists to serve the Christian infrastructure and serve the Christian infrastructure and serve the Christian infrastructure and also really propel Christians [music] also really propel Christians [music] also really propel Christians [music] into the AI space. And we're going to into the AI space. And we're going to into the AI space. And we're going to talk about all things artificial talk about all things artificial talk about all things artificial intelligence. We're going to break it intelligence. We're going to break it intelligence. We're going to break it down exactly what it means, what his down exactly what it means, what his down exactly what it means, what his take as an industry insider is [music] take as an industry insider is [music] take as an industry insider is [music] on the disruptive impacts of AI, on the disruptive impacts of AI, on the disruptive impacts of AI, particularly when it comes to mental particularly when it comes to mental particularly when it comes to mental health, when it comes to economics, also health, when it comes to economics, also health, when it comes to economics, also what Christian AI could look like and what Christian AI could look like and what Christian AI could look like and how you can really make a difference. If how you can really make a difference. If how you can really make a difference. If you want to have a voice in AI, if you you want to have a voice in AI, if you you want to have a voice in AI, if you want to make sure you don't lose your want to make sure you don't lose your want to make sure you don't lose your job, if you want to make sure uh that job, if you want to make sure uh that job, if you want to make sure uh that you're prepared for whatever disruption you're prepared for whatever disruption you're prepared for whatever disruption may come, well, you've come to the right

may come, well, you've come to the right may come, well, you've come to the right place. So, I am so glad that Pat would place. So, I am so glad that Pat would place. So, I am so glad that Pat would join me. We sit down, we do a deep dive join me. We sit down, we do a deep dive join me. We sit down, we do a deep dive into this. If you are new to the into this. If you are new to the into this. If you are new to the podcast, one of the best things that you podcast, one of the best things that you podcast, one of the best things that you could do is hit subscribe or follow could do is hit subscribe or follow could do is hit subscribe or follow wherever you're watching or wherever wherever you're watching or wherever wherever you're watching or wherever you're listening right now. We're in the you're listening right now. We're in the you're listening right now. We're in the middle of a series on artificial middle of a series on artificial middle of a series on artificial intelligence in the future church. You intelligence in the future church. You intelligence in the future church. You can go back and listen to the other can go back and listen to the other can go back and listen to the other episodes and catch all the ones that are episodes and catch all the ones that are episodes and catch all the ones that are going to follow, too. So, now let's get going to follow, too. So, now let's get going to follow, too. So, now let's get to my conversation with Pat Gellzinger. to my conversation with Pat Gellzinger. to my conversation with Pat Gellzinger. Pat, I'm really glad to be with you Pat, I'm really glad to be with you Pat, I'm really glad to be with you again. Thanks for making the time for again. Thanks for making the time for again. Thanks for making the time for this. this. this. >> Well, thank you, Carrie. Great to be on >> Well, thank you, Carrie. Great to be on >> Well, thank you, Carrie. Great to be on the show and look forward to our the show and look forward to our the show and look forward to our conversation. conversation. conversation. >> Yeah. So, we could talk about a lot of >> Yeah. So, we could talk about a lot of >> Yeah. So, we could talk about a lot of things. We're really going to focus on things. We're really going to focus on things. We're really going to focus on artificial intelligence because that's artificial intelligence because that's artificial intelligence because that's sort of the era that we're in and the sort of the era that we're in and the sort of the era that we're in and the era that we're moving into. But, man, era that we're moving into. But, man, era that we're moving into. But, man, you have been uh behind so much during you have been uh behind so much during you have been uh behind so much during your career. And I want to start with a your career. And I want to start with a your career. And I want to start with a curious thing. The USB cord we all know curious thing. The USB cord we all know curious thing. The USB cord we all know which we call I think USBA now because which we call I think USBA now because which we call I think USBA now because we have USBC. You had a hand in we have USBC. You had a hand in we have USBC. You had a hand in inventing that, did you not? inventing that, did you not? inventing that, did you not? >> Yeah. I'd say two of those things that I >> Yeah. I'd say two of those things that I >> Yeah. I'd say two of those things that I was most involved in that everybody uses was most involved in that everybody uses was most involved in that everybody uses every day, USB and Wi-Fi.

every day, USB and Wi-Fi. every day, USB and Wi-Fi. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And uh you know, I always like it. My uh >> And uh you know, I always like it. My uh >> And uh you know, I always like it. My uh the fun story I tell about USB is when the fun story I tell about USB is when the fun story I tell about USB is when my granddaughter Alice uh the one I'm my granddaughter Alice uh the one I'm my granddaughter Alice uh the one I'm taking to London shortly, when she plugs taking to London shortly, when she plugs taking to London shortly, when she plugs in a USB cord, she says, "Thank you, in a USB cord, she says, "Thank you, in a USB cord, she says, "Thank you, Papa." A [laughter] Papa." A [laughter] Papa." A [laughter] >> and uh you know, helped to create Wi-Fi, >> and uh you know, helped to create Wi-Fi, >> and uh you know, helped to create Wi-Fi, right? which you know was just you know right? which you know was just you know right? which you know was just you know I can tell story after story of the you I can tell story after story of the you I can tell story after story of the you know formation of Wi-Fi and how that know formation of Wi-Fi and how that know formation of Wi-Fi and how that came to be but you know some of the came to be but you know some of the came to be but you know some of the technologies that I had the pleasure the technologies that I had the pleasure the technologies that I had the pleasure the honor of working on you know people use honor of working on you know people use honor of working on you know people use every day you know as I like to say my every day you know as I like to say my every day you know as I like to say my uh my uh life mission is that I would uh my uh life mission is that I would uh my uh life mission is that I would work on a piece of technology that would work on a piece of technology that would work on a piece of technology that would touch every person on earth and hasten touch every person on earth and hasten touch every person on earth and hasten Christ's return Christ's return Christ's return >> right so you know and if you think about >> right so you know and if you think about >> right so you know and if you think about it about 65% of humanity uses some of my it about 65% of humanity uses some of my it about 65% of humanity uses some of my tech so tech so tech so >> and about 100% % watching this podcast >> and about 100% % watching this podcast >> and about 100% % watching this podcast uses your tech. For sure. For sure. Um, uses your tech. For sure. For sure. Um, uses your tech. For sure. For sure. Um, so because you invented uh the USB cord, so because you invented uh the USB cord, so because you invented uh the USB cord, are you successful in plugging it in the are you successful in plugging it in the are you successful in plugging it in the right way the first time? More often right way the first time? More often right way the first time? More often than not, cuz I'm like 75% get it upside than not, cuz I'm like 75% get it upside than not, cuz I'm like 75% get it upside down.

down. down. >> Yeah. Yeah. But it seems like, you know, >> Yeah. Yeah. But it seems like, you know, >> Yeah. Yeah. But it seems like, you know, it should be 50/50, but secret. it should be 50/50, but secret. it should be 50/50, but secret. >> Yeah. Uh, well, if you know >> Yeah. Uh, well, if you know >> Yeah. Uh, well, if you know polarization, right, you know, the logo polarization, right, you know, the logo polarization, right, you know, the logo should be on the top, so your thumb should be on the top, so your thumb should be on the top, so your thumb should always be on that side. Right. should always be on that side. Right. should always be on that side. Right. >> There you go. There you go. So, >> There you go. There you go. So, >> There you go. There you go. So, >> all right. So, if you have an original >> all right. So, if you have an original >> all right. So, if you have an original uh USBA cord logo on top, thumb should uh USBA cord logo on top, thumb should uh USBA cord logo on top, thumb should be there. There you go. It's going to be there. There you go. It's going to be there. There you go. It's going to save me probably 5 years of my life. save me probably 5 years of my life. save me probably 5 years of my life. >> There we go. >> There we go. >> There we go. >> Moving forward, um technology is moving >> Moving forward, um technology is moving >> Moving forward, um technology is moving really rapidly. I mean, you uh Oh gosh, really rapidly. I mean, you uh Oh gosh, really rapidly. I mean, you uh Oh gosh, I'm blanking right now. What is that uh I'm blanking right now. What is that uh I'm blanking right now. What is that uh that law that technology doubles every that law that technology doubles every that law that technology doubles every 18 months? 18 months? 18 months? >> Moors law. >> Moors law. >> Moors law. >> Moore's law. Thank you. Thank you. >> Moore's law. Thank you. Thank you. >> Moore's law. Thank you. Thank you. Moore's law. Um, how have you seen that Moore's law. Um, how have you seen that Moore's law. Um, how have you seen that play out over the course of your play out over the course of your play out over the course of your multi-deade career? Moore's law. multi-deade career? Moore's law. multi-deade career? Moore's law. >> And, you know, in some ways, you know, >> And, you know, in some ways, you know, >> And, you know, in some ways, you know, Moor's law was an observation about, you Moor's law was an observation about, you Moor's law was an observation about, you know, transistors, right? You know, and know, transistors, right? You know, and know, transistors, right? You know, and how many transistors can you put on a how many transistors can you put on a how many transistors can you put on a single piece of uh uh silicon, right? single piece of uh uh silicon, right? single piece of uh uh silicon, right? And you know, this doubling every two And you know, this doubling every two And you know, this doubling every two years, originally 18 months, then two years, originally 18 months, then two years, originally 18 months, then two years. And you know that idea because if years. And you know that idea because if years. And you know that idea because if I double the number of transistors, I I double the number of transistors, I I double the number of transistors, I can double the compute capacity. I can can double the compute capacity. I can can double the compute capacity. I can double the memory capacity, right? And double the memory capacity, right? And double the memory capacity, right? And if you do a couple of doubles in a row, if you do a couple of doubles in a row, if you do a couple of doubles in a row, all of a sudden you get a really big all of a sudden you get a really big all of a sudden you get a really big number, right? And we've seen that now number, right? And we've seen that now number, right? And we've seen that now go from, you know, like the 486 where I go from, you know, like the 486 where I go from, you know, like the 486 where I was the architect was 1,100.

was the architect was 1,100. was the architect was 1,100. Uh, and Uh, and Uh, and >> you were the architect on the 486. >> you were the architect on the 486. >> you were the architect on the 486. >> Yeah. Yeah. That was out. I had a 486. >> Yeah. Yeah. That was out. I had a 486. >> Yeah. Yeah. That was out. I had a 486. >> Yeah. So that was my chip from beginning >> Yeah. So that was my chip from beginning >> Yeah. So that was my chip from beginning to end. I, you know, I was the first to end. I, you know, I was the first to end. I, you know, I was the first person person person >> Intel. Yeah. uh for you know that was a >> Intel. Yeah. uh for you know that was a >> Intel. Yeah. uh for you know that was a little bit over a million transistors. little bit over a million transistors. little bit over a million transistors. Now if you look at one of the leading Now if you look at one of the leading Now if you look at one of the leading edge uh GPUs that's somewhere you know edge uh GPUs that's somewhere you know edge uh GPUs that's somewhere you know in the order of half a billion in the order of half a billion in the order of half a billion transistors right you know and if you transistors right you know and if you transistors right you know and if you add up all the memory and so on right add up all the memory and so on right add up all the memory and so on right you're literally you know well over you're literally you know well over you're literally you know well over right a trillion transistors right a trillion transistors right a trillion transistors representing what today would be our representing what today would be our representing what today would be our core AI machines. So, I don't I mean, as core AI machines. So, I don't I mean, as core AI machines. So, I don't I mean, as a non- tech person, Pat, I do not a non- tech person, Pat, I do not a non- tech person, Pat, I do not understand that. I've read it. You're understand that. I've read it. You're understand that. I've read it. You're explaining it. I'm not doubting it. explaining it. I'm not doubting it. explaining it. I'm not doubting it. >> When you say there's a trillion >> When you say there's a trillion >> When you say there's a trillion transistors on a chip, transistors on a chip, transistors on a chip, is that how it goes? Like, how does that is that how it goes? Like, how does that is that how it goes? Like, how does that work? Okay. and and the chips are the work? Okay. and and the chips are the work? Okay. and and the chips are the size of your small size of your small size of your small >> well you know the big GPUs now are sort >> well you know the big GPUs now are sort >> well you know the big GPUs now are sort of you know about you know maybe 2 1/2 of you know about you know maybe 2 1/2 of you know about you know maybe 2 1/2 in by 4 in you know of silicon uh area in by 4 in you know of silicon uh area in by 4 in you know of silicon uh area with memory IO and the big uh computing with memory IO and the big uh computing with memory IO and the big uh computing functions inside of them right and it's functions inside of them right and it's functions inside of them right and it's just you know yeah there's a trillion just you know yeah there's a trillion just you know yeah there's a trillion transistors working you know so when you transistors working you know so when you transistors working you know so when you get that next token there were a get that next token there were a get that next token there were a trillion transistors behind creating you trillion transistors behind creating you trillion transistors behind creating you know what led to that token being know what led to that token being know what led to that token being produced which is you know giving you a produced which is you know giving you a produced which is you know giving you a sentence an utterance a uh you know a sentence an utterance a uh you know a sentence an utterance a uh you know a next response to your uh AI prompt. This next response to your uh AI prompt. This next response to your uh AI prompt. This you know it's just magical uh and uh you you know it's just magical uh and uh you you know it's just magical uh and uh you know we're not done yet.

know we're not done yet. know we're not done yet. >> When you listen to uh the big AI labs >> When you listen to uh the big AI labs >> When you listen to uh the big AI labs and Glue has an AI lab. We're going to and Glue has an AI lab. We're going to and Glue has an AI lab. We're going to talk all about that toward the end of talk all about that toward the end of talk all about that toward the end of the podcast but you listen to anthropic the podcast but you listen to anthropic the podcast but you listen to anthropic open AI. Uh they're building things and open AI. Uh they're building things and open AI. Uh they're building things and I don't know what your take is whether I don't know what your take is whether I don't know what your take is whether we're at recursive learning yet. Um we're at recursive learning yet. Um we're at recursive learning yet. Um we're recording this uh in the spring. we're recording this uh in the spring. we're recording this uh in the spring. it's going to play in in late summer. So it's going to play in in late summer. So it's going to play in in late summer. So we might be at recursive like AGI at we might be at recursive like AGI at we might be at recursive like AGI at that point but where the the technology that point but where the the technology that point but where the the technology uh teaches itself. So now uh teaches itself. So now uh teaches itself. So now [clears throat] you train a model, you [clears throat] you train a model, you [clears throat] you train a model, you release it into the world and it does release it into the world and it does release it into the world and it does what it's supposed to do hopefully what it's supposed to do hopefully what it's supposed to do hopefully theoretically theoretically theoretically >> but even now um you see it >> but even now um you see it >> but even now um you see it >> growing at such a rate that the >> growing at such a rate that the >> growing at such a rate that the engineers themselves are not 100% sure engineers themselves are not 100% sure engineers themselves are not 100% sure what they're building. what they're building. what they're building. >> I'd like your your thoughts on that. >> I'd like your your thoughts on that. >> I'd like your your thoughts on that. like has that been the case for a long like has that been the case for a long like has that been the case for a long long time? You look back at Intel, your long time? You look back at Intel, your long time? You look back at Intel, your career, you know, when you were CEO or career, you know, when you were CEO or career, you know, when you were CEO or before that when you were at at at Intel before that when you were at at at Intel before that when you were at at at Intel or your other experience, were you or your other experience, were you or your other experience, were you always 100% sure of what you were always 100% sure of what you were always 100% sure of what you were building? Um, or has AI really building? Um, or has AI really building? Um, or has AI really fundamentally changed?

fundamentally changed? fundamentally changed? >> Yeah, I think there's always this aspect >> Yeah, I think there's always this aspect >> Yeah, I think there's always this aspect of, well, I wonder if it and then you'd of, well, I wonder if it and then you'd of, well, I wonder if it and then you'd be whatever the question is. I wonder if be whatever the question is. I wonder if be whatever the question is. I wonder if it can do this, you know, what about it can do this, you know, what about it can do this, you know, what about that? You know, I haven't tried this that? You know, I haven't tried this that? You know, I haven't tried this before. does that enable us to do this before. does that enable us to do this before. does that enable us to do this class of recursive software before right class of recursive software before right class of recursive software before right so I'll say there's always been this so I'll say there's always been this so I'll say there's always been this little bit of wonderment yeah little bit of wonderment yeah little bit of wonderment yeah >> about you know the creations what else >> about you know the creations what else >> about you know the creations what else can they do if I reconfigure it this way can they do if I reconfigure it this way can they do if I reconfigure it this way if I stitch hundreds thousands millions if I stitch hundreds thousands millions if I stitch hundreds thousands millions of them together can I solve this of them together can I solve this of them together can I solve this problem so I say you know it's been problem so I say you know it's been problem so I say you know it's been endemic in the computing industry for endemic in the computing industry for endemic in the computing industry for many decades what's happening with AI many decades what's happening with AI many decades what's happening with AI though right is the pace of that has though right is the pace of that has though right is the pace of that has accelerated to a way that uh you're not accelerated to a way that uh you're not accelerated to a way that uh you're not even necessarily saying I'm creating even necessarily saying I'm creating even necessarily saying I'm creating this but I'm guiding the creation of this but I'm guiding the creation of this but I'm guiding the creation of this and you're sort of setting these this and you're sort of setting these this and you're sort of setting these broader parameters and you're really not broader parameters and you're really not broader parameters and you're really not quite sure how it's going to respond. quite sure how it's going to respond. quite sure how it's going to respond. You know, if I tell the AI model, you You know, if I tell the AI model, you You know, if I tell the AI model, you know, go find the fastest way to do this know, go find the fastest way to do this know, go find the fastest way to do this and it has learned in its data set that and it has learned in its data set that and it has learned in its data set that the fastest way to do that is to cheat the fastest way to do that is to cheat the fastest way to do that is to cheat steel. Well, then you've told it go get steel. Well, then you've told it go get steel. Well, then you've told it go get the fastest way to do this and the the fastest way to do this and the the fastest way to do this and the natural answer was to cheat and steal to natural answer was to cheat and steal to natural answer was to cheat and steal to do it. So, did I teach the AI to cheat do it. So, did I teach the AI to cheat do it. So, did I teach the AI to cheat and steal?

and steal? and steal? >> No. But it was part of its training set, >> No. But it was part of its training set, >> No. But it was part of its training set, right? That and when I gave it an right? That and when I gave it an right? That and when I gave it an objective, the fastest way to get here, objective, the fastest way to get here, objective, the fastest way to get here, it cheat and steal to do it because that it cheat and steal to do it because that it cheat and steal to do it because that was in its training set. I didn't teach was in its training set. I didn't teach was in its training set. I didn't teach it morals, you know, but all of a sudden it morals, you know, but all of a sudden it morals, you know, but all of a sudden it's doing immoral acts because I didn't it's doing immoral acts because I didn't it's doing immoral acts because I didn't teach it otherwise, right? So there's a teach it otherwise, right? So there's a teach it otherwise, right? So there's a I'll say there's a new level of I'll say there's a new level of I'll say there's a new level of wonderment in how models respond and wonderment in how models respond and wonderment in how models respond and they're moving so rapidly because the they're moving so rapidly because the they're moving so rapidly because the compute farms are getting so large, the compute farms are getting so large, the compute farms are getting so large, the data sets are getting so large. You know data sets are getting so large. You know data sets are getting so large. You know the very creators is like hm I wonder the very creators is like hm I wonder the very creators is like hm I wonder what's going to happen with this one. what's going to happen with this one. what's going to happen with this one. And I think there's a new level of And I think there's a new level of And I think there's a new level of wonderment and AI systems that has wonderment and AI systems that has wonderment and AI systems that has always been there in engineering but to always been there in engineering but to always been there in engineering but to a much much greater degree. a much much greater degree. a much much greater degree. >> Yeah. If we can just break down sort of >> Yeah. If we can just break down sort of >> Yeah. If we can just break down sort of AI, AGI and ASI, super intelligence. AI, AGI and ASI, super intelligence. AI, AGI and ASI, super intelligence. Some people aren't even sure if super Some people aren't even sure if super Some people aren't even sure if super intelligence exists or will exist in the intelligence exists or will exist in the intelligence exists or will exist in the future. But for people like I think most future. But for people like I think most future. But for people like I think most people watching a podcast like this have people watching a podcast like this have people watching a podcast like this have experimented with AI, but a lot of us experimented with AI, but a lot of us experimented with AI, but a lot of us haven't really looked under the hood. haven't really looked under the hood. haven't really looked under the hood. It's like how does your car actually It's like how does your car actually It's like how does your car actually work? Most of it would be I'm not sure.

work? Most of it would be I'm not sure. work? Most of it would be I'm not sure. If it breaks, I bring it into the shop. If it breaks, I bring it into the shop. If it breaks, I bring it into the shop. >> I think there's pistons in there, >> I think there's pistons in there, >> I think there's pistons in there, carburetors, but carburetors, but carburetors, but >> pretty sure. Yeah. So, and we don't >> pretty sure. Yeah. So, and we don't >> pretty sure. Yeah. So, and we don't understand how our computers work. But understand how our computers work. But understand how our computers work. But the same is true with AI. Like there are the same is true with AI. Like there are the same is true with AI. Like there are different eras or phases of AI that different eras or phases of AI that different eras or phases of AI that we're in or are predicted to come next. we're in or are predicted to come next. we're in or are predicted to come next. Do you want to just give us the Do you want to just give us the Do you want to just give us the >> uh simple breakdown of AI versus AGI >> uh simple breakdown of AI versus AGI >> uh simple breakdown of AI versus AGI versus super intelligence? versus super intelligence? versus super intelligence? >> Yeah. Well, in fact, let's go back a >> Yeah. Well, in fact, let's go back a >> Yeah. Well, in fact, let's go back a little bit first. Let's do it. Right. little bit first. Let's do it. Right. little bit first. Let's do it. Right. Let's start, you know, so you know, Let's start, you know, so you know, Let's start, you know, so you know, 1958, you know, the great Dartmouth 1958, you know, the great Dartmouth 1958, you know, the great Dartmouth Summit when the when the phrase Summit when the when the phrase Summit when the when the phrase artificial intelligence was first used, artificial intelligence was first used, artificial intelligence was first used, you know, and since, you know, as I like you know, and since, you know, as I like you know, and since, you know, as I like to say, you know, a lot of great to say, you know, a lot of great to say, you know, a lot of great technologies are many decade overnight technologies are many decade overnight technologies are many decade overnight successes, right? You know, they go successes, right? You know, they go successes, right? You know, they go through these ugly formative twists and through these ugly formative twists and through these ugly formative twists and turns, you know, you have nuclear turns, you know, you have nuclear turns, you know, you have nuclear winners where, you know, it's terrible, winners where, you know, it's terrible, winners where, you know, it's terrible, you know, and AI was very much that way. you know, and AI was very much that way. you know, and AI was very much that way. when I was architecting the 8486 my when I was architecting the 8486 my when I was architecting the 8486 my marketing manager said we're going to marketing manager said we're going to marketing manager said we're going to make it a great AI chip make it a great AI chip make it a great AI chip >> right that was in 1983 when I was doing >> right that was in 1983 when I was doing >> right that was in 1983 when I was doing that work right you know and right that work right you know and right that work right you know and right obviously the age of AI was still many obviously the age of AI was still many obviously the age of AI was still many decades in the future decades in the future decades in the future >> you know but it's been rumbling through >> you know but it's been rumbling through >> you know but it's been rumbling through and breakthroughs you know neural and breakthroughs you know neural and breakthroughs you know neural networks you know heruristic techniques networks you know heruristic techniques networks you know heruristic techniques and uh you know hidden marov models and and uh you know hidden marov models and and uh you know hidden marov models and you know many of these other you know you know many of these other you know you know many of these other you know phases that you know have led to deep phases that you know have led to deep phases that you know have led to deep neural networks you know then has led to neural networks you know then has led to neural networks you know then has led to machine learning you know and now you machine learning you know and now you machine learning you know and now you have you know generative AI and now a have you know generative AI and now a have you know generative AI and now a gentic age right you know for it so gentic age right you know for it so gentic age right you know for it so we've seen these different phases where we've seen these different phases where we've seen these different phases where you know breakthroughs occur and one of

you know breakthroughs occur and one of you know breakthroughs occur and one of the magics of technology right is they the magics of technology right is they the magics of technology right is they build on each other right you know when build on each other right you know when build on each other right you know when you think you know how could chat GPT you think you know how could chat GPT you think you know how could chat GPT have a billion users you know in days have a billion users you know in days have a billion users you know in days well first it didn't need to build well first it didn't need to build well first it didn't need to build computers it was using computers you computers it was using computers you computers it was using computers you know second it didn't need to build the know second it didn't need to build the know second it didn't need to build the internet. We had already built the internet. We had already built the internet. We had already built the internet, right? So all of a sudden it's internet, right? So all of a sudden it's internet, right? So all of a sudden it's building on all of these things where, building on all of these things where, building on all of these things where, you know, people can get access to a new you know, people can get access to a new you know, people can get access to a new service and it's like it's the fastest service and it's like it's the fastest service and it's like it's the fastest one ever. Well, if it wasn't the fastest one ever. Well, if it wasn't the fastest one ever. Well, if it wasn't the fastest one ever, it wasn't exciting, right? one ever, it wasn't exciting, right? one ever, it wasn't exciting, right? Because it's building on these Because it's building on these Because it's building on these generations of technologies that have generations of technologies that have generations of technologies that have already gone before it, already gone before it, already gone before it, >> you know, and now we're looking at AGI, >> you know, and now we're looking at AGI, >> you know, and now we're looking at AGI, right? You know, and saying, well, is right? You know, and saying, well, is right? You know, and saying, well, is that the next thing? You know, that the next thing? You know, that the next thing? You know, personally, I'm not that excited about personally, I'm not that excited about personally, I'm not that excited about the phrase, you know, the phrase, you know, the phrase, you know, >> artificial general intelligence, >> artificial general intelligence, >> artificial general intelligence, >> you know, tell me what does that what >> you know, tell me what does that what >> you know, tell me what does that what does that mean, you know, at that level? does that mean, you know, at that level? does that mean, you know, at that level? Because, you know, we're already able Because, you know, we're already able Because, you know, we're already able to, you know, take generative AI. We're to, you know, take generative AI. We're to, you know, take generative AI. We're able to give it very, you know, I'll say able to give it very, you know, I'll say able to give it very, you know, I'll say broad classes of problems. You know, broad classes of problems. You know, broad classes of problems. You know, it's able to reason over those. uh and it's able to reason over those. uh and it's able to reason over those. uh and you know with that uh this age of you know with that uh this age of you know with that uh this age of agentic AI to me is far more interesting agentic AI to me is far more interesting agentic AI to me is far more interesting that we're coming in because we're that we're coming in because we're that we're coming in because we're applying AI to use cases and functions applying AI to use cases and functions applying AI to use cases and functions where essentially my agents can now be where essentially my agents can now be where essentially my agents can now be talking to my agents can be talking to talking to my agents can be talking to talking to my agents can be talking to your agents and we're operating at agent your agents and we're operating at agent your agents and we're operating at agent time not at human time right time not at human time right time not at human time right >> so for someone who's not sure what >> so for someone who's not sure what >> so for someone who's not sure what agentic AI is what's what's the simple agentic AI is what's what's the simple agentic AI is what's what's the simple definition definition definition >> yeah well you've seen words like open

>> yeah well you've seen words like open >> yeah well you've seen words like open claw a right you know so you know in it claw a right you know so you know in it claw a right you know so you know in it you know and basically you know what you you know and basically you know what you you know and basically you know what you can think about is now I can define a can think about is now I can define a can think about is now I can define a function an agent you know that's able function an agent you know that's able function an agent you know that's able to operate independent you know it's not to operate independent you know it's not to operate independent you know it's not responding to my thing I'm not responding to my thing I'm not responding to my thing I'm not >> you're not prompting it every step of >> you're not prompting it every step of >> you're not prompting it every step of the way the way the way >> that's right you know I'm not saying you >> that's right you know I'm not saying you >> that's right you know I'm not saying you know what if you know give me the top 10 know what if you know give me the top 10 know what if you know give me the top 10 Carrie Newuhoff broadcast right and it Carrie Newuhoff broadcast right and it Carrie Newuhoff broadcast right and it gives me you know the answer did a lot gives me you know the answer did a lot gives me you know the answer did a lot of work in the background you know now I of work in the background you know now I of work in the background you know now I can say you know here's a research can say you know here's a research can say you know here's a research project that I would like done on my project that I would like done on my project that I would like done on my behalf you know go search whatever behalf you know go search whatever behalf you know go search whatever websites you need when you know, when websites you need when you know, when websites you need when you know, when you're finished that, turn it into this you're finished that, turn it into this you're finished that, turn it into this report. You know, when you're done report. You know, when you're done report. You know, when you're done writing the report, please post edit it writing the report, please post edit it writing the report, please post edit it for me. You know, when you're done for me. You know, when you're done for me. You know, when you're done post-editing it for me, post it on these post-editing it for me, post it on these post-editing it for me, post it on these uh uh websites, you know, and create the uh uh websites, you know, and create the uh uh websites, you know, and create the 1 minute, the 10-minute, and the 1 hour 1 minute, the 10-minute, and the 1 hour 1 minute, the 10-minute, and the 1 hour version of that, please translate it version of that, please translate it version of that, please translate it into these uh 10 languages for me, you into these uh 10 languages for me, you into these uh 10 languages for me, you know, and then go search for the best know, and then go search for the best know, and then go search for the best places to post those 10 languages. Okay? places to post those 10 languages. Okay? places to post those 10 languages. Okay? I can have an agent that goes and does I can have an agent that goes and does I can have an agent that goes and does that work for me. I I think of it and that work for me. I I think of it and that work for me. I I think of it and tell me if I'm wrong in my understanding tell me if I'm wrong in my understanding tell me if I'm wrong in my understanding like having a team member, a staff like having a team member, a staff like having a team member, a staff member. You line someone up member. You line someone up member. You line someone up >> right now. I'm really, you know, my >> right now. I'm really, you know, my >> right now. I'm really, you know, my agents are going to work on my behalf agents are going to work on my behalf agents are going to work on my behalf just like I would would have had a staff just like I would would have had a staff just like I would would have had a staff member. You know, I could have given member. You know, I could have given member. You know, I could have given that lengthy set of assignment you to that lengthy set of assignment you to that lengthy set of assignment you to somebody on my team. They would have somebody on my team. They would have somebody on my team. They would have been scribbling notes, right, to go do been scribbling notes, right, to go do been scribbling notes, right, to go do it and they might have gone off and it and they might have gone off and it and they might have gone off and worked for two weeks to do what I just worked for two weeks to do what I just worked for two weeks to do what I just said. Now I have a set of agents that said. Now I have a set of agents that said. Now I have a set of agents that might finish it over the weekend for me, might finish it over the weekend for me, might finish it over the weekend for me, right? And if I have somebody on my right? And if I have somebody on my right? And if I have somebody on my staff, I give them agents. All of a staff, I give them agents. All of a staff, I give them agents. All of a sudden, it's like they have assistants sudden, it's like they have assistants sudden, it's like they have assistants who have assistance who have assistance.

who have assistance who have assistance. who have assistance who have assistance. So the productivity potential that you So the productivity potential that you So the productivity potential that you have as a result of these agentic have as a result of these agentic have as a result of these agentic processes and many business processes processes and many business processes processes and many business processes will become agentic workflows, you know, will become agentic workflows, you know, will become agentic workflows, you know, going forward. And the productivity going forward. And the productivity going forward. And the productivity benefits of that, you know, are simply benefits of that, you know, are simply benefits of that, you know, are simply astounding, right? that you know will astounding, right? that you know will astounding, right? that you know will will emerge to individuals to businesses will emerge to individuals to businesses will emerge to individuals to businesses to churches you know that embrace and to churches you know that embrace and to churches you know that embrace and figure out how to use these uh figure out how to use these uh figure out how to use these uh capabilities and truly agents can now be capabilities and truly agents can now be capabilities and truly agents can now be talking to agents I can have a one agent talking to agents I can have a one agent talking to agents I can have a one agent that's working with another agent just that's working with another agent just that's working with another agent just like I'd have one staff member working like I'd have one staff member working like I'd have one staff member working with another staff member right in the with another staff member right in the with another staff member right in the future and they can be debating with future and they can be debating with future and they can be debating with each other right and when they're done each other right and when they're done each other right and when they're done debating they can give me the best debating they can give me the best debating they can give me the best result and maybe they still disagree and result and maybe they still disagree and result and maybe they still disagree and they'll tell me they still disagree they'll tell me they still disagree they'll tell me they still disagree >> this episode is brought to you by Convoy >> this episode is brought to you by Convoy >> this episode is brought to you by Convoy of Hope with each breaking news stories of Hope with each breaking news stories of Hope with each breaking news stories of disaster around the world. I know of disaster around the world. I know of disaster around the world. I know that help is on the way because of the that help is on the way because of the that help is on the way because of the tireless efforts of my friends at Convoy tireless efforts of my friends at Convoy tireless efforts of my friends at Convoy of Hope. And their incredible work isn't of Hope. And their incredible work isn't of Hope. And their incredible work isn't limited to just providing relief in the limited to just providing relief in the limited to just providing relief in the wake of those storm paths. Last year wake of those storm paths. Last year wake of those storm paths. Last year alone, they trained and equipped close alone, they trained and equipped close alone, they trained and equipped close to 50,000 farmers and empowered nearly to 50,000 farmers and empowered nearly to 50,000 farmers and empowered nearly 80,000 women. I've seen this up close on 80,000 women. I've seen this up close on 80,000 women. I've seen this up close on the field. It's incredible. 677,000 the field. It's incredible. 677,000 the field. It's incredible. 677,000 children woke up this morning knowing children woke up this morning knowing children woke up this morning knowing they would receive a nutritious meal.

they would receive a nutritious meal. they would receive a nutritious meal. All because of our partnership with All because of our partnership with All because of our partnership with Convoy of Hope. Tony and I personally Convoy of Hope. Tony and I personally Convoy of Hope. Tony and I personally traveled to the field. We saw firsthand traveled to the field. We saw firsthand traveled to the field. We saw firsthand the amazing impact of our personal the amazing impact of our personal the amazing impact of our personal Convoy partnership and how they tangibly Convoy partnership and how they tangibly Convoy partnership and how they tangibly share God's love. So, I think their work share God's love. So, I think their work share God's love. So, I think their work is impressive. I know the need is great. is impressive. I know the need is great. is impressive. I know the need is great. Sometimes the the news is just so Sometimes the the news is just so Sometimes the the news is just so overwhelming and your gift to Convoy of overwhelming and your gift to Convoy of overwhelming and your gift to Convoy of Hope will help make the difference. Join Hope will help make the difference. Join Hope will help make the difference. Join me and Tony, my wife, in supporting this me and Tony, my wife, in supporting this me and Tony, my wife, in supporting this great ministry. The website is convoyofh great ministry. The website is convoyofh great ministry. The website is convoyofh hope.org/carry. hope.org/carry. hope.org/carry. This episode is brought to you by church This episode is brought to you by church This episode is brought to you by church growth engine. So why do churches with growth engine. So why do churches with growth engine. So why do churches with faithful members, solid preaching, and faithful members, solid preaching, and faithful members, solid preaching, and genuine love for God struggle to genuine love for God struggle to genuine love for God struggle to flourish in their communities? A lot of flourish in their communities? A lot of flourish in their communities? A lot of growth challenges are about removing growth challenges are about removing growth challenges are about removing predictable barriers that prevent predictable barriers that prevent predictable barriers that prevent churches from becoming all that God has churches from becoming all that God has churches from becoming all that God has called them to be. Church growth engines called them to be. Church growth engines called them to be. Church growth engines guide, why do good churches get stuck? guide, why do good churches get stuck? guide, why do good churches get stuck? identifies 10 fixable problems, identifies 10 fixable problems, identifies 10 fixable problems, including leadership exhaustion cycles, including leadership exhaustion cycles, including leadership exhaustion cycles, visitor retention gaps, and the we're visitor retention gaps, and the we're visitor retention gaps, and the we're full illusion. Each challenge includes full illusion. Each challenge includes full illusion. Each challenge includes both symptoms to be recognized and both symptoms to be recognized and both symptoms to be recognized and practical steps that have helped practical steps that have helped practical steps that have helped thousands of churches move from survival thousands of churches move from survival thousands of churches move from survival to thriving ministry. You'll see to thriving ministry. You'll see to thriving ministry. You'll see realistic timelines because lasting realistic timelines because lasting realistic timelines because lasting change takes time. Ready to help your change takes time. Ready to help your change takes time. Ready to help your church thrive? Download the free guide church thrive? Download the free guide church thrive? Download the free guide today at churchgrowthengine.com/action today at churchgrowthengine.com/action today at churchgrowthengine.com/action plan. That's plan. That's plan. That's churchgrowthengine.com/actionpl.

The loose definition. I mean, we're in The loose definition. I mean, we're in the LLM era, which is basically the LLM era, which is basically the LLM era, which is basically predictions, if I understand that right, predictions, if I understand that right, predictions, if I understand that right, the large language model. So, you type the large language model. So, you type the large language model. So, you type in a prompt or you're asking it to in a prompt or you're asking it to in a prompt or you're asking it to finish a piece of writing that you're finish a piece of writing that you're finish a piece of writing that you're working on as a writer. I've I've done working on as a writer. I've I've done working on as a writer. I've I've done this many times. this many times. this many times. >> And then it just says, okay, I've >> And then it just says, okay, I've >> And then it just says, okay, I've trained myself on all the knowledge trained myself on all the knowledge trained myself on all the knowledge available to man, humanity, available to man, humanity, available to man, humanity, >> right? I've trained myself on you. I >> right? I've trained myself on you. I >> right? I've trained myself on you. I know your style and the kind of things know your style and the kind of things know your style and the kind of things you would say. I've taken all of that you would say. I've taken all of that you would say. I've taken all of that and that's part of my learning. speak it and that's part of my learning. speak it and that's part of my learning. speak it in the voice of Carrie Newuh Hoff when in the voice of Carrie Newuh Hoff when in the voice of Carrie Newuh Hoff when you go draft this paragraph and you know you go draft this paragraph and you know you go draft this paragraph and you know it's decent. it's decent. it's decent. >> Yeah, it is. >> Yeah, it is. >> Yeah, it is. >> It's very good now. >> It's very good now. >> It's very good now. >> You know my you know my you know Pat >> You know my you know my you know Pat >> You know my you know my you know Pat Gellzinger notebook LLM is like it's Gellzinger notebook LLM is like it's Gellzinger notebook LLM is like it's pretty good. [laughter] pretty good. [laughter] pretty good. [laughter] >> Yeah. And you know with technical >> Yeah. And you know with technical >> Yeah. And you know with technical writing it makes a mistake. You will writing it makes a mistake. You will writing it makes a mistake. You will notice right? uh you know if if you're notice right? uh you know if if you're notice right? uh you know if if you're writing a technical piece AGI I've heard writing a technical piece AGI I've heard writing a technical piece AGI I've heard defined as it is smarter than any so if defined as it is smarter than any so if defined as it is smarter than any so if you're doing physics you're doing physics you're doing physics >> smarter than the than the than the best >> smarter than the than the than the best >> smarter than the than the than the best physicist in the world physicist in the world physicist in the world >> yeah and to some degree yeah okay that's >> yeah and to some degree yeah okay that's >> yeah and to some degree yeah okay that's fine you know it's a fine definition but fine you know it's a fine definition but fine you know it's a fine definition but you know my calculator is already you know my calculator is already you know my calculator is already smarter than me at doing basic math you smarter than me at doing basic math you smarter than me at doing basic math you know my spreadsheet is already a lot know my spreadsheet is already a lot know my spreadsheet is already a lot better than me my supercomput you know better than me my supercomput you know better than me my supercomput you know can I you know do the uh you know the uh can I you know do the uh you know the uh can I you know do the uh you know the uh uh uh forier transforms to do weather uh uh forier transforms to do weather uh uh forier transforms to do weather modeling. Yes, I can do them, right? But modeling. Yes, I can do them, right? But modeling. Yes, I can do them, right? But my supercomput just blows me away. It's my supercomput just blows me away. It's my supercomput just blows me away. It's way better than that.

way better than that. way better than that. >> So, in some ways, we're already there. >> So, in some ways, we're already there. >> So, in some ways, we're already there. >> Yeah. You know, but at the same time, >> Yeah. You know, but at the same time, >> Yeah. You know, but at the same time, it's like when people talk about it's like when people talk about it's like when people talk about artificial general intelligence that it artificial general intelligence that it artificial general intelligence that it becomes this superhuman kind of thing, becomes this superhuman kind of thing, becomes this superhuman kind of thing, you know, there are so many things that you know, there are so many things that you know, there are so many things that these models can't do yet. You know, these models can't do yet. You know, these models can't do yet. You know, just as one example, you know, we, you just as one example, you know, we, you just as one example, you know, we, you know, essentially the models are flat. know, essentially the models are flat. know, essentially the models are flat. You know, they do two-dimensional You know, they do two-dimensional You know, they do two-dimensional problems very well. Threedimensional problems very well. Threedimensional problems very well. Threedimensional problems like robotics are quite quite problems like robotics are quite quite problems like robotics are quite quite stalled today, right? You know, robotics stalled today, right? You know, robotics stalled today, right? You know, robotics is not very good, right? We've seen, you is not very good, right? We've seen, you is not very good, right? We've seen, you know, all of the physical AI domains. know, all of the physical AI domains. know, all of the physical AI domains. You know, you know, a four-year-old can You know, you know, a four-year-old can You know, you know, a four-year-old can do better than almost every robot on do better than almost every robot on do better than almost every robot on basic, you know, uh, you know, fine basic, you know, uh, you know, fine basic, you know, uh, you know, fine motion characteristics, motion characteristics, motion characteristics, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Okay. You can say, hey, it's genius >> Okay. You can say, hey, it's genius >> Okay. You can say, hey, it's genius level, you know, PhD level, right, at level, you know, PhD level, right, at level, you know, PhD level, right, at uh, research insights. Oh, that's great. uh, research insights. Oh, that's great. uh, research insights. Oh, that's great. But you can't even, you know, make an But you can't even, you know, make an But you can't even, you know, make an egg cube, right? You know, as good as my egg cube, right? You know, as good as my egg cube, right? You know, as good as my four-year-old does. So right it's you four-year-old does. So right it's you four-year-old does. So right it's you know three-dimensional problems AI is know three-dimensional problems AI is know three-dimensional problems AI is still very bad at right I think there's still very bad at right I think there's still very bad at right I think there's some fundamental reasons for that most some fundamental reasons for that most some fundamental reasons for that most science physics chemistry biology is science physics chemistry biology is science physics chemistry biology is three-dimensional problems you know and three-dimensional problems you know and three-dimensional problems you know and they're not having great success in they're not having great success in they're not having great success in those domains yet you know and many those domains yet you know and many those domains yet you know and many aspects of human behavior you know when aspects of human behavior you know when aspects of human behavior you know when you get out of the predictable next you get out of the predictable next you get out of the predictable next token kind of response right where you token kind of response right where you token kind of response right where you know we're humans right you know we have know we're humans right you know we have know we're humans right you know we have these other you know characteristics these other you know characteristics these other you know characteristics associated with it models are bad you associated with it models are bad you associated with it models are bad you know they you know, they hallucinate, know they you know, they hallucinate, know they you know, they hallucinate, right? They get declaratively wrong. And right? They get declaratively wrong. And right? They get declaratively wrong. And when you tell them they're wrong, right, when you tell them they're wrong, right, when you tell them they're wrong, right, they get more wrong, [laughter] they get more wrong, [laughter] they get more wrong, [laughter] you know, associated with it. And, you

you know, associated with it. And, you you know, associated with it. And, you know, well, we know we have stubborn know, well, we know we have stubborn know, well, we know we have stubborn people as well, but you know, for the people as well, but you know, for the people as well, but you know, for the most part, if I tell you, no, Carrie, most part, if I tell you, no, Carrie, most part, if I tell you, no, Carrie, you're wrong. you're wrong. you're wrong. >> Oh, okay. >> Oh, okay. >> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. Let let me pause and understand >> Yeah. Let let me pause and understand >> Yeah. Let let me pause and understand why I'm wrong or what it is. You know, why I'm wrong or what it is. You know, why I'm wrong or what it is. You know, we don't have clarity of the reasoning we don't have clarity of the reasoning we don't have clarity of the reasoning today. How did they get to that answer, today. How did they get to that answer, today. How did they get to that answer, right? And this is one of the things right? And this is one of the things right? And this is one of the things that many of the leading a AI labs that many of the leading a AI labs that many of the leading a AI labs today, you know, is, you know, what today, you know, is, you know, what today, you know, is, you know, what explanability characteristics, how did explanability characteristics, how did explanability characteristics, how did it get to that conclusion? And if I it get to that conclusion? And if I it get to that conclusion? And if I don't know how it got to that don't know how it got to that don't know how it got to that conclusion, how do I make it better when conclusion, how do I make it better when conclusion, how do I make it better when it gets to the wrong conclusion? So I it gets to the wrong conclusion? So I it gets to the wrong conclusion? So I say there's still much science left just say there's still much science left just say there's still much science left just in how to best effectively use it. And in how to best effectively use it. And in how to best effectively use it. And there's entirely entire domains where it there's entirely entire domains where it there's entirely entire domains where it still is very ineffective at solving still is very ineffective at solving still is very ineffective at solving those problems. One of the worries that those problems. One of the worries that those problems. One of the worries that a lot of ethicists and even some of the a lot of ethicists and even some of the a lot of ethicists and even some of the developers themselves of AI have is that developers themselves of AI have is that developers themselves of AI have is that right now you could argue we still have right now you could argue we still have right now you could argue we still have some capacity to contain AI. In other some capacity to contain AI. In other some capacity to contain AI. In other words, we can we can hit the brakes. We words, we can we can hit the brakes. We words, we can we can hit the brakes. We can train the model, but there's kind of can train the model, but there's kind of can train the model, but there's kind of an escape mode where AI becomes an escape mode where AI becomes an escape mode where AI becomes recursive in the sense that it's recursive in the sense that it's recursive in the sense that it's teaching itself. Uh the genie is out of teaching itself. Uh the genie is out of teaching itself. Uh the genie is out of the bottle and we can no longer the bottle and we can no longer the bottle and we can no longer determine what it does. And the argument determine what it does. And the argument determine what it does. And the argument around super intelligence when it around super intelligence when it around super intelligence when it becomes smarter than all of humanity is becomes smarter than all of humanity is becomes smarter than all of humanity is that perhaps we won't even understand that perhaps we won't even understand that perhaps we won't even understand what AI is doing. It's like does a dog what AI is doing. It's like does a dog what AI is doing. It's like does a dog fully understand what you're talking fully understand what you're talking fully understand what you're talking about with your wife? No. Does a about with your wife? No. Does a about with your wife? No. Does a three-year-old fully understand what three-year-old fully understand what three-year-old fully understand what you're talking about with your, you you're talking about with your, you you're talking about with your, you know, colleague? No, they they don't.

know, colleague? No, they they don't. know, colleague? No, they they don't. And that AI now reaches a point or in And that AI now reaches a point or in And that AI now reaches a point or in the future reaches a point where uh we the future reaches a point where uh we the future reaches a point where uh we no longer can control and perhaps can no no longer can control and perhaps can no no longer can control and perhaps can no longer understand what it's doing. Do longer understand what it's doing. Do longer understand what it's doing. Do you think that's a plausible scenario in you think that's a plausible scenario in you think that's a plausible scenario in our lifetime? our lifetime? our lifetime? >> Well, first let's think about it a >> Well, first let's think about it a >> Well, first let's think about it a little bit carefully because this is not little bit carefully because this is not little bit carefully because this is not the first scientific breakthrough where the first scientific breakthrough where the first scientific breakthrough where we've had those kind of questions. we've had those kind of questions. we've had those kind of questions. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know, the first fision reaction, >> You know, the first fision reaction, >> You know, the first fision reaction, >> right? You know what, you know, you >> right? You know what, you know, you >> right? You know what, you know, you know, if I have a little fision know, if I have a little fision know, if I have a little fision reaction, does the entire earth become a reaction, does the entire earth become a reaction, does the entire earth become a fizz reaction? Right? You know, that was fizz reaction? Right? You know, that was fizz reaction? Right? You know, that was some of the, you know, the fears, the some of the, you know, the fears, the some of the, you know, the fears, the early concerns, right? when the you know early concerns, right? when the you know early concerns, right? when the you know nuclear bomb was being created you know nuclear bomb was being created you know nuclear bomb was being created you know we similarly had some of those questions we similarly had some of those questions we similarly had some of those questions around g uh gene editing and DNA editing around g uh gene editing and DNA editing around g uh gene editing and DNA editing well if I tweak it a little bit you know well if I tweak it a little bit you know well if I tweak it a little bit you know have I changed it fundamentally and does have I changed it fundamentally and does have I changed it fundamentally and does it evolve in ways that you know humanity it evolve in ways that you know humanity it evolve in ways that you know humanity doesn't know or control you know so it's doesn't know or control you know so it's doesn't know or control you know so it's not the first time you know that we've not the first time you know that we've not the first time you know that we've had such concerns right where we're had such concerns right where we're had such concerns right where we're unleashing technology that we don't unleashing technology that we don't unleashing technology that we don't quite understand how it behaves and if quite understand how it behaves and if quite understand how it behaves and if we unleash it and let it go in the wild we unleash it and let it go in the wild we unleash it and let it go in the wild will it become uncontrollable. Right? So will it become uncontrollable. Right? So will it become uncontrollable. Right? So I'll say, you know, those two examples I'll say, you know, those two examples I'll say, you know, those two examples are fairly recent in all of our minds in are fairly recent in all of our minds in are fairly recent in all of our minds in that sense. Now, one of the things that sense. Now, one of the things that sense. Now, one of the things that's most comforting to me is we're that's most comforting to me is we're that's most comforting to me is we're having the debate, having the debate, having the debate, >> right? And you know, we didn't have the >> right? And you know, we didn't have the >> right? And you know, we didn't have the debate in social networking.

debate in social networking. debate in social networking. >> Yes. It just happened. >> Yes. It just happened. >> Yes. It just happened. >> It just happened. And 22 years later, we >> It just happened. And 22 years later, we >> It just happened. And 22 years later, we have the first accountability for the have the first accountability for the have the first accountability for the ills which are significant of social ills which are significant of social ills which are significant of social networking. Right. You know, well, we're networking. Right. You know, well, we're networking. Right. You know, well, we're already having those debates. Ethicists already having those debates. Ethicists already having those debates. Ethicists are in the conversation debating what are in the conversation debating what are in the conversation debating what happens you know and you know many of happens you know and you know many of happens you know and you know many of the uh you know foundation model labs the uh you know foundation model labs the uh you know foundation model labs are deeply concerned about these are deeply concerned about these are deeply concerned about these questions for their models and what's questions for their models and what's questions for their models and what's the testing required for their release the testing required for their release the testing required for their release and you know under what circumstances do and you know under what circumstances do and you know under what circumstances do we quote let them go in the wild because we quote let them go in the wild because we quote let them go in the wild because we know they can do things that we're we know they can do things that we're we know they can do things that we're not quite sure how they're going to not quite sure how they're going to not quite sure how they're going to behave in certain circumstances right behave in certain circumstances right behave in certain circumstances right and unless we've really tested and and unless we've really tested and and unless we've really tested and controlled them in some ways hm It could controlled them in some ways hm It could controlled them in some ways hm It could cause damage. So I believe there's risk cause damage. So I believe there's risk cause damage. So I believe there's risk of damage. Sure, right? You know, hey, of damage. Sure, right? You know, hey, of damage. Sure, right? You know, hey, they could, you know, like Mythos, the they could, you know, like Mythos, the they could, you know, like Mythos, the recent conversations around, you know, recent conversations around, you know, recent conversations around, you know, security. Hey, we can find security security. Hey, we can find security security. Hey, we can find security vulnerabilities faster than hackers can. vulnerabilities faster than hackers can. vulnerabilities faster than hackers can. Remember, we've been dealing with Remember, we've been dealing with Remember, we've been dealing with hackers now for 40 years. Yeah. hackers now for 40 years. Yeah. hackers now for 40 years. Yeah. >> Right. You know, so it's not like >> Right. You know, so it's not like >> Right. You know, so it's not like hacking my security system is something hacking my security system is something hacking my security system is something new. We've been doing it, but now we new. We've been doing it, but now we new. We've been doing it, but now we have a system that is more proficient at have a system that is more proficient at have a system that is more proficient at hacking than any that we've created hacking than any that we've created hacking than any that we've created before. and we haven't necessarily built before. and we haven't necessarily built before. and we haven't necessarily built defenses that are more proficient than defenses that are more proficient than defenses that are more proficient than ever before. [clears throat] ever before. [clears throat] ever before. [clears throat] >> If I release it, am I going to damage >> If I release it, am I going to damage >> If I release it, am I going to damage things that I hadn't yet pondered?

things that I hadn't yet pondered? things that I hadn't yet pondered? >> Well, and I think that's a that's a good >> Well, and I think that's a that's a good >> Well, and I think that's a that's a good example. I mean, again, we're recording example. I mean, again, we're recording example. I mean, again, we're recording in miday and we may have a very in miday and we may have a very in miday and we may have a very different answer. Mythos might be out in different answer. Mythos might be out in different answer. Mythos might be out in the wild by the fall, etc., etc. There's the wild by the fall, etc., etc. There's the wild by the fall, etc., etc. There's some other operating system, but some other operating system, but some other operating system, but Anthropic, who created that, had the Anthropic, who created that, had the Anthropic, who created that, had the common sense to say, "We're not going to common sense to say, "We're not going to common sense to say, "We're not going to release this." this they've released it release this." this they've released it release this." this they've released it as the time of recording to about maybe as the time of recording to about maybe as the time of recording to about maybe 70 companies if my understanding is 70 companies if my understanding is 70 companies if my understanding is correct correct correct >> and they're like banking industry before >> and they're like banking industry before >> and they're like banking industry before the bad guys get a hold of this like the bad guys get a hold of this like the bad guys get a hold of this like let's build some new security breakins let's build some new security breakins let's build some new security breakins but I guess the fear and and I don't but I guess the fear and and I don't but I guess the fear and and I don't know that you've read the book if anyone know that you've read the book if anyone know that you've read the book if anyone builds this everyone dies. builds this everyone dies. builds this everyone dies. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I mean that's sort >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I mean that's sort >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I mean that's sort of the scenario that if we build uh the of the scenario that if we build uh the of the scenario that if we build uh the next level of AI, it gets beyond us. And next level of AI, it gets beyond us. And next level of AI, it gets beyond us. And the scenario there is it could engineer the scenario there is it could engineer the scenario there is it could engineer a virus that wipes out humanity because a virus that wipes out humanity because a virus that wipes out humanity because it's like oh who are these? It's like uh it's like oh who are these? It's like uh it's like oh who are these? It's like uh I think one of the analogies they use is I think one of the analogies they use is I think one of the analogies they use is uh when we build a freeway, we know that uh when we build a freeway, we know that uh when we build a freeway, we know that it's going to dislocate some ants, but it's going to dislocate some ants, but it's going to dislocate some ants, but we don't particularly worry about the we don't particularly worry about the we don't particularly worry about the ants. We just kind of run the bulldozers ants. We just kind of run the bulldozers ants. We just kind of run the bulldozers and build the freeway anyway. An a AI and build the freeway anyway. An a AI and build the freeway anyway. An a AI may behave that way. And if humans are may behave that way. And if humans are may behave that way. And if humans are bad and expendable and not very smart bad and expendable and not very smart bad and expendable and not very smart and AI is great and they're speaking in and AI is great and they're speaking in and AI is great and they're speaking in an intelligence, they could build data an intelligence, they could build data an intelligence, they could build data farms to self-perpetuate us. I think the farms to self-perpetuate us. I think the farms to self-perpetuate us. I think the final scenario of the book is that we final scenario of the book is that we final scenario of the book is that we end up in some kind of environmental end up in some kind of environmental end up in some kind of environmental apocalypse where the conditions for life apocalypse where the conditions for life apocalypse where the conditions for life no longer exist on Earth. And and these no longer exist on Earth. And and these no longer exist on Earth. And and these are two very wellrespected

are two very wellrespected are two very wellrespected AI developers who wrote this book. I AI developers who wrote this book. I AI developers who wrote this book. I mean, scenarios like that are very mean, scenarios like that are very mean, scenarios like that are very doomsday. I'd love your your take on doomsday. I'd love your your take on doomsday. I'd love your your take on that and maybe your own level of alarm that and maybe your own level of alarm that and maybe your own level of alarm around those possible scenarios, Pat. around those possible scenarios, Pat. around those possible scenarios, Pat. >> Well, you know, first I'm an optimist. >> Well, you know, first I'm an optimist. >> Well, you know, first I'm an optimist. >> Yes. On these things and you know, some >> Yes. On these things and you know, some >> Yes. On these things and you know, some of these alarmists, these extremist of these alarmists, these extremist of these alarmists, these extremist views, it's like I'm glad they're out views, it's like I'm glad they're out views, it's like I'm glad they're out there because they're raising the there because they're raising the there because they're raising the conversation, conversation, conversation, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> You know, but and you know, second, you >> You know, but and you know, second, you >> You know, but and you know, second, you know, broad comment is, you know, I know, broad comment is, you know, I know, broad comment is, you know, I believe technology is neutral. believe technology is neutral. believe technology is neutral. >> We can shape it for good or for bad. >> We can shape it for good or for bad. >> We can shape it for good or for bad. >> Yeah. And it's our job to be every day >> Yeah. And it's our job to be every day >> Yeah. And it's our job to be every day how do I make it good right? I also how do I make it good right? I also how do I make it good right? I also believe in this that you know the only believe in this that you know the only believe in this that you know the only way to make sure the technology is good way to make sure the technology is good way to make sure the technology is good is to be creating you know technology is to be creating you know technology is to be creating you know technology that's making it good. that's making it good. that's making it good. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> In the sense that you know how am I >> In the sense that you know how am I >> In the sense that you know how am I going to make sure the AI models are going to make sure the AI models are going to make sure the AI models are producing good producing good producing good reliable safeguarded results. The only reliable safeguarded results. The only reliable safeguarded results. The only way I'm going to be able to do this is way I'm going to be able to do this is way I'm going to be able to do this is having AI models that are checking the having AI models that are checking the having AI models that are checking the AI models AI models AI models >> because those are what that's the only >> because those are what that's the only >> because those are what that's the only way they're going to be fast enough, way they're going to be fast enough, way they're going to be fast enough, good enough, introspective enough, you good enough, introspective enough, you good enough, introspective enough, you know, so I need, you know, we've called know, so I need, you know, we've called know, so I need, you know, we've called some of this at glue, you know, villain some of this at glue, you know, villain some of this at glue, you know, villain testing, right? You know, where great testing, right? You know, where great testing, right? You know, where great phrase, phrase, phrase, >> right? You know, I need somebody who's >> right? You know, I need somebody who's >> right? You know, I need somebody who's constantly there. And, you know, I was constantly there. And, you know, I was constantly there. And, you know, I was just spending time at Anthropic last just spending time at Anthropic last just spending time at Anthropic last week, right, on this, you know, where week, right, on this, you know, where week, right, on this, you know, where they're anxious for that level of they're anxious for that level of they're anxious for that level of introspection. You know, they want, you introspection. You know, they want, you introspection. You know, they want, you know, antagonistic views, right, that know, antagonistic views, right, that know, antagonistic views, right, that are challenging the fringes, you know, are challenging the fringes, you know, are challenging the fringes, you know, have you thought about this? Have you have you thought about this? Have you have you thought about this? Have you tested that? No, I didn't test that yet.

tested that? No, I didn't test that yet. tested that? No, I didn't test that yet. Well, then you can't release it yet, Well, then you can't release it yet, Well, then you can't release it yet, right? You know, and when I release it, right? You know, and when I release it, right? You know, and when I release it, I need the antagonist model that are I need the antagonist model that are I need the antagonist model that are there. Okay, let's check. Was the result there. Okay, let's check. Was the result there. Okay, let's check. Was the result good? Was the result good? Right? and good? Was the result good? Right? and good? Was the result good? Right? and it's constantly looking for those areas it's constantly looking for those areas it's constantly looking for those areas of weakness or those areas that it could of weakness or those areas that it could of weakness or those areas that it could go off the rails. So technolog is go off the rails. So technolog is go off the rails. So technolog is neutral. We need to shape it for good. neutral. We need to shape it for good. neutral. We need to shape it for good. We need to build the robustness. Now We need to build the robustness. Now We need to build the robustness. Now let's take an example, you know, Carrie, let's take an example, you know, Carrie, let's take an example, you know, Carrie, right? You know, if I create a right? You know, if I create a right? You know, if I create a self-driving car, does it still have to self-driving car, does it still have to self-driving car, does it still have to pass Department of Transportation safety pass Department of Transportation safety pass Department of Transportation safety requirements? requirements? requirements? Yes, it does. I'm releasing AI in the Yes, it does. I'm releasing AI in the Yes, it does. I'm releasing AI in the context of regulations that are already context of regulations that are already context of regulations that are already in place, right? And I believe that in place, right? And I believe that in place, right? And I believe that needs to be the case for every you know needs to be the case for every you know needs to be the case for every you know if I'm using AI in banking systems. if I'm using AI in banking systems. if I'm using AI in banking systems. Okay. Okay. Okay. >> But is it not largely unregulated right >> But is it not largely unregulated right >> But is it not largely unregulated right now? AI now? AI now? AI >> uh you know but think about it you know >> uh you know but think about it you know >> uh you know but think about it you know right AI cars. right AI cars. right AI cars. >> Okay. You know those are >> Okay. You know those are >> Okay. You know those are >> came here in a way. >> came here in a way. >> came here in a way. >> Yeah. Right. You know so like that it >> Yeah. Right. You know so like that it >> Yeah. Right. You know so like that it follows Department of Transportation and follows Department of Transportation and follows Department of Transportation and for the most part those regulations for the most part those regulations for the most part those regulations required a certain level of testing required a certain level of testing required a certain level of testing reliability associated with that. We're reliability associated with that. We're reliability associated with that. We're having to adjust them a little bit to having to adjust them a little bit to having to adjust them a little bit to figure out how to regulate self-driving figure out how to regulate self-driving figure out how to regulate self-driving cars, you know, but those self-driving cars, you know, but those self-driving cars, you know, but those self-driving cars are in the context of human-driven cars are in the context of human-driven cars are in the context of human-driven cars. So, they have to be safe in the cars. So, they have to be safe in the cars. So, they have to be safe in the presence of humans as well. Robots when presence of humans as well. Robots when presence of humans as well. Robots when they're going to, you know, today they're going to, you know, today they're going to, you know, today there's OSHA requirements around robots there's OSHA requirements around robots there's OSHA requirements around robots and factories. They have to be safe in and factories. They have to be safe in and factories. They have to be safe in the present humanoids have to be safe in the present humanoids have to be safe in the present humanoids have to be safe in the presence of humans. If I'm using AI the presence of humans. If I'm using AI the presence of humans. If I'm using AI for drug discovery, do I still need to for drug discovery, do I still need to for drug discovery, do I still need to pass FDA? Absolutely. Right? So you just

pass FDA? Absolutely. Right? So you just pass FDA? Absolutely. Right? So you just sort of go industry by industry, but sort of go industry by industry, but sort of go industry by industry, but there's going to be new regulations there's going to be new regulations there's going to be new regulations required as well. Sure. You know, so the required as well. Sure. You know, so the required as well. Sure. You know, so the application of AI needs to be regulated application of AI needs to be regulated application of AI needs to be regulated by the domain of every use of it, you by the domain of every use of it, you by the domain of every use of it, you know, fully and completely. Most of know, fully and completely. Most of know, fully and completely. Most of those areas are going to need to be those areas are going to need to be those areas are going to need to be tweaked, enhanced for some of the unique tweaked, enhanced for some of the unique tweaked, enhanced for some of the unique powers of AI. And every once in a while, powers of AI. And every once in a while, powers of AI. And every once in a while, you're going to say, well, we hadn't you're going to say, well, we hadn't you're going to say, well, we hadn't thought about that one for any of our thought about that one for any of our thought about that one for any of our regulatory regimes. We got to jump in regulatory regimes. We got to jump in regulatory regimes. We got to jump in and think about that specifically as and think about that specifically as and think about that specifically as well. But every ethicist conversation, I well. But every ethicist conversation, I well. But every ethicist conversation, I love them. love them. love them. >> I'm an optimist, but I need pessimists >> I'm an optimist, but I need pessimists >> I'm an optimist, but I need pessimists at the table as well to make sure we at the table as well to make sure we at the table as well to make sure we thought about all of those potential thought about all of those potential thought about all of those potential negative consequences as well. negative consequences as well. negative consequences as well. >> So, just pulling the the curtain back a >> So, just pulling the the curtain back a >> So, just pulling the the curtain back a little bit. I've been researching this little bit. I've been researching this little bit. I've been researching this in a deep way for two years. And again, in a deep way for two years. And again, in a deep way for two years. And again, I'm coming at it as a lawyer and a the I'm coming at it as a lawyer and a the I'm coming at it as a lawyer and a the well, seminary trained pastor. I well, seminary trained pastor. I well, seminary trained pastor. I wouldn't even say theologian. I'm not a wouldn't even say theologian. I'm not a wouldn't even say theologian. I'm not a theologian. And Pat, it it's been very theologian. And Pat, it it's been very theologian. And Pat, it it's been very hard at times because I'm I'm reading hard at times because I'm I'm reading hard at times because I'm I'm reading the optimist scenarios. I'm reading the the optimist scenarios. I'm reading the the optimist scenarios. I'm reading the doomsday scenarios and the pessimist doomsday scenarios and the pessimist doomsday scenarios and the pessimist scenarios. And it's been very difficult scenarios. And it's been very difficult scenarios. And it's been very difficult for me not to get sucked in to the for me not to get sucked in to the for me not to get sucked in to the negative consequences and you gave very negative consequences and you gave very negative consequences and you gave very helpful feedback uh early on in drafts helpful feedback uh early on in drafts helpful feedback uh early on in drafts of the book. You said, "Think this is a of the book. You said, "Think this is a of the book. You said, "Think this is a little exaggerated. Um probably not little exaggerated. Um probably not little exaggerated. Um probably not going to get this bad. like I needed going to get this bad. like I needed going to get this bad. like I needed Optimus to read it and others to read it Optimus to read it and others to read it Optimus to read it and others to read it as well.

as well. as well. >> Um I' I'd love for you to tell me >> Um I' I'd love for you to tell me >> Um I' I'd love for you to tell me because most of the people involved in because most of the people involved in because most of the people involved in AI or the CEOs I talked to I had dinner AI or the CEOs I talked to I had dinner AI or the CEOs I talked to I had dinner with one a couple uh weeks ago in with one a couple uh weeks ago in with one a couple uh weeks ago in Toronto. Friend of mine has 800 staff, Toronto. Friend of mine has 800 staff, Toronto. Friend of mine has 800 staff, 400 software engineers working on AI and 400 software engineers working on AI and 400 software engineers working on AI and he's very optimistic. Optimistic about he's very optimistic. Optimistic about he's very optimistic. Optimistic about jobs, optimistic about the tech. And jobs, optimistic about the tech. And jobs, optimistic about the tech. And most of the CEOs I talk to, like most of the CEOs I talk to, like most of the CEOs I talk to, like yourself, are optimistic. The cynic yourself, are optimistic. The cynic yourself, are optimistic. The cynic says, "Well, of course, because you're says, "Well, of course, because you're says, "Well, of course, because you're working in it every day, and it's in working in it every day, and it's in working in it every day, and it's in your vested interest to be optimistic your vested interest to be optimistic your vested interest to be optimistic about it. Nobody likes to say, "Yes, I'm about it. Nobody likes to say, "Yes, I'm about it. Nobody likes to say, "Yes, I'm building a technology that could ruin building a technology that could ruin building a technology that could ruin the world, etc., etc." But what do you the world, etc., etc." But what do you the world, etc., etc." But what do you think the the doomsayers are getting think the the doomsayers are getting think the the doomsayers are getting wrong? Well, I do think you know and wrong? Well, I do think you know and wrong? Well, I do think you know and again I want to be very very uh again I want to be very very uh again I want to be very very uh thoughtful about the doomsayers are thoughtful about the doomsayers are thoughtful about the doomsayers are doing us all a service. doing us all a service. doing us all a service. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Right. Because they are forcing us to >> Right. Because they are forcing us to >> Right. Because they are forcing us to think about those scenarios. think about those scenarios. think about those scenarios. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> As we're you know as us optimists as us >> As we're you know as us optimists as us >> As we're you know as us optimists as us technologists technologists technologists you know and that is just healthy you know and that is just healthy you know and that is just healthy >> right and like I say we weren't healthy >> right and like I say we weren't healthy >> right and like I say we weren't healthy in social media.

in social media. in social media. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. So to me this is just healthy. >> Right. So to me this is just healthy. >> Right. So to me this is just healthy. Right. And none of us should take the Right. And none of us should take the Right. And none of us should take the doomsayers and just throw them out, doomsayers and just throw them out, doomsayers and just throw them out, right? You know, and just say, "Well, right? You know, and just say, "Well, right? You know, and just say, "Well, you know, you know, you know, those are you know, you know, you know, those are you know, you know, you know, those are a bunch of fuddy duddies. Let's get rid a bunch of fuddy duddies. Let's get rid a bunch of fuddy duddies. Let's get rid of them." You know, right? You know, but of them." You know, right? You know, but of them." You know, right? You know, but at the same time, you know, and I think at the same time, you know, and I think at the same time, you know, and I think especially for Christian communities, especially for Christian communities, especially for Christian communities, right? You know, we ain't putting AI right? You know, we ain't putting AI right? You know, we ain't putting AI back in the bottle. back in the bottle. back in the bottle. >> No, the horse is out of the barn, right? >> No, the horse is out of the barn, right? >> No, the horse is out of the barn, right? You know, the genie has decided and we You know, the genie has decided and we You know, the genie has decided and we are racing forward here. Yeah. are racing forward here. Yeah. are racing forward here. Yeah. >> So I want every you know faith leader, >> So I want every you know faith leader, >> So I want every you know faith leader, every theologian be in the arena help every theologian be in the arena help every theologian be in the arena help shaping it having these dialogues uh as shaping it having these dialogues uh as shaping it having these dialogues uh as well. Now many of the doomsayers I think well. Now many of the doomsayers I think well. Now many of the doomsayers I think you know I mean you know it's like these you know I mean you know it's like these you know I mean you know it's like these uncontrolled machines that can go do uncontrolled machines that can go do uncontrolled machines that can go do everything and so on like that you know everything and so on like that you know everything and so on like that you know they can barely pick up a block that they can barely pick up a block that they can barely pick up a block that your 2-year-old can pick up right today. your 2-year-old can pick up right today. your 2-year-old can pick up right today. So okay you know come on you know just So okay you know come on you know just So okay you know come on you know just get back to earth here a little bit. get back to earth here a little bit. get back to earth here a little bit. Right. There are so many problems that Right. There are so many problems that Right. There are so many problems that we haven't solved yet. Right. you know we haven't solved yet. Right. you know we haven't solved yet. Right. you know fundamentally we don't have the energy fundamentally we don't have the energy fundamentally we don't have the energy capacity to do some of the things that capacity to do some of the things that capacity to do some of the things that are talked about. Yeah, we have are talked about. Yeah, we have are talked about. Yeah, we have shortages in what we need to make chips.

shortages in what we need to make chips. shortages in what we need to make chips. Like the compute power is the biggest Like the compute power is the biggest Like the compute power is the biggest constraint on AI in 2026. constraint on AI in 2026. constraint on AI in 2026. >> But you know, fundamentally this is a >> But you know, fundamentally this is a >> But you know, fundamentally this is a powerful technology and if I'm using AI powerful technology and if I'm using AI powerful technology and if I'm using AI and you're not, I win, you lose, and you're not, I win, you lose, and you're not, I win, you lose, >> right? You just, you know, if I'm a >> right? You just, you know, if I'm a >> right? You just, you know, if I'm a chemist, right, and I'm using AI for my chemist, right, and I'm using AI for my chemist, right, and I'm using AI for my chemistry models, I'm going to create chemistry models, I'm going to create chemistry models, I'm going to create better chemistry than you. I'm going to better chemistry than you. I'm going to better chemistry than you. I'm going to put your company out of business. If I'm put your company out of business. If I'm put your company out of business. If I'm using in my finance systems, I'm going using in my finance systems, I'm going using in my finance systems, I'm going to win. You're going to lose. If I'm to win. You're going to lose. If I'm to win. You're going to lose. If I'm using it, you know, uh, using it for my using it, you know, uh, using it for my using it, you know, uh, using it for my material science, I win, you lose. If material science, I win, you lose. If material science, I win, you lose. If I'm using it for my cyber systems, I I'm using it for my cyber systems, I I'm using it for my cyber systems, I win, you lose. win, you lose. win, you lose. >> True. >> True. >> True. >> Right. And in that there is this race to >> Right. And in that there is this race to >> Right. And in that there is this race to be first. be first. be first. >> Right. And that's a company statement, >> Right. And that's a company statement, >> Right. And that's a company statement, that's also a nation statement. that's also a nation statement. that's also a nation statement. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. Because if I have better AI than >> Right. Because if I have better AI than >> Right. Because if I have better AI than China, you know, than Europe, my economy China, you know, than Europe, my economy China, you know, than Europe, my economy will be better than yours. will be better than yours. will be better than yours. >> And we see that race globally right now. >> And we see that race globally right now. >> And we see that race globally right now. >> Yeah. And that's going to lead people to >> Yeah. And that's going to lead people to >> Yeah. And that's going to lead people to say, "Hey, being first at all cost say, "Hey, being first at all cost say, "Hey, being first at all cost versus being first and good, right?" You versus being first and good, right?" You versus being first and good, right?" You know, and that's why to me having the know, and that's why to me having the know, and that's why to me having the doomsayers, having the theologians, doomsayers, having the theologians, doomsayers, having the theologians, having the values leader at the table is having the values leader at the table is having the values leader at the table is so critical because we know that being so critical because we know that being so critical because we know that being first at all cost versus making sure first at all cost versus making sure first at all cost versus making sure that we've made them first and good, that we've made them first and good, that we've made them first and good, right? You know, is the topic that we right? You know, is the topic that we right? You know, is the topic that we have today. And to me, those tensions have today. And to me, those tensions have today. And to me, those tensions are good. They're healthy. And you know, are good. They're healthy. And you know, are good. They're healthy. And you know, I'm encouraging, you know, every one of I'm encouraging, you know, every one of I'm encouraging, you know, every one of my peers, you know, hey, have you my peers, you know, hey, have you my peers, you know, hey, have you thought about this? You know, I'm in the thought about this? You know, I'm in the thought about this? You know, I'm in the race with you, but we have to make sure, race with you, but we have to make sure, race with you, but we have to make sure, you know, values are at the table as you know, values are at the table as you know, values are at the table as well. This episode is brought to you by

well. This episode is brought to you by well. This episode is brought to you by Compassion International. As church Compassion International. As church Compassion International. As church leaders, we're called to help our leaders, we're called to help our leaders, we're called to help our congregation live out the great congregation live out the great congregation live out the great commission and the great commandment to commission and the great commandment to commission and the great commandment to love God above all and go out and make love God above all and go out and make love God above all and go out and make disciples. And that's a calling. Now, it disciples. And that's a calling. Now, it disciples. And that's a calling. Now, it can be overwhelming, but you don't have can be overwhelming, but you don't have can be overwhelming, but you don't have to do it alone. Compassion International to do it alone. Compassion International to do it alone. Compassion International is an incredible organization that's is an incredible organization that's is an incredible organization that's reaching the most vulnerable children reaching the most vulnerable children reaching the most vulnerable children with the hope of the gospel, empowering with the hope of the gospel, empowering with the hope of the gospel, empowering them to grow into thriving followers of them to grow into thriving followers of them to grow into thriving followers of Jesus. Everything they do comes back to Jesus. Everything they do comes back to Jesus. Everything they do comes back to one mission, releasing children from one mission, releasing children from one mission, releasing children from poverty in Jesus' name. And they don't poverty in Jesus' name. And they don't poverty in Jesus' name. And they don't do it alone. They work with church do it alone. They work with church do it alone. They work with church leaders like you and me on the ground to leaders like you and me on the ground to leaders like you and me on the ground to provide opportunities for our provide opportunities for our provide opportunities for our congregations to step into the world of congregations to step into the world of congregations to step into the world of global missions. Compassion partners global missions. Compassion partners global missions. Compassion partners with churches of all sizes, equipping with churches of all sizes, equipping with churches of all sizes, equipping them with tools from free family them with tools from free family them with tools from free family resources to churchwide experiences. resources to churchwide experiences. resources to churchwide experiences. Check out compassion.com/carry Check out compassion.com/carry Check out compassion.com/carry and drop your information in the church and drop your information in the church and drop your information in the church partnership section and someone from partnership section and someone from partnership section and someone from compassion will reach out. That's compassion will reach out. That's compassion will reach out. That's compassion.com/carey.

compassion.com/carey. compassion.com/carey. Just drop your info in the church Just drop your info in the church Just drop your info in the church partnership section and compassion will partnership section and compassion will partnership section and compassion will be in touch. There's a lot of potential be in touch. There's a lot of potential be in touch. There's a lot of potential implications of AI and what I'm really implications of AI and what I'm really implications of AI and what I'm really interested on is uh I mean I'm I'm using interested on is uh I mean I'm I'm using interested on is uh I mean I'm I'm using AI, you're using AI, you're developing AI, you're using AI, you're developing AI, you're using AI, you're developing AI. I mean that's what you're doing in AI. I mean that's what you're doing in AI. I mean that's what you're doing in your venture right now. But what I'm your venture right now. But what I'm your venture right now. But what I'm interested in is is is the potential interested in is is is the potential interested in is is is the potential impact of AI. And there's two areas I impact of AI. And there's two areas I impact of AI. And there's two areas I want to drill down on. One is mental want to drill down on. One is mental want to drill down on. One is mental health, the other is economics. And I health, the other is economics. And I health, the other is economics. And I spend a third of the book talking about spend a third of the book talking about spend a third of the book talking about those two potential implications. And those two potential implications. And those two potential implications. And you said something very interesting, you said something very interesting, you said something very interesting, Pat, and I'm just open like I'm I'm I Pat, and I'm just open like I'm I'm I Pat, and I'm just open like I'm I'm I love these conversations because they're love these conversations because they're love these conversations because they're conversations. When social media first conversations. When social media first conversations. When social media first came out, had a lot of concerned parents came out, had a lot of concerned parents came out, had a lot of concerned parents come to me. You know, I was pastoring a come to me. You know, I was pastoring a come to me. You know, I was pastoring a church and I said a version of exactly church and I said a version of exactly church and I said a version of exactly what you've said in this podcast a what you've said in this podcast a what you've said in this podcast a couple times. Technology is not good or couple times. Technology is not good or couple times. Technology is not good or evil. It just reveals and amplifies evil. It just reveals and amplifies evil. It just reveals and amplifies uh what was already there. So, you know, uh what was already there. So, you know, uh what was already there. So, you know, and the same with the printing press. and the same with the printing press. and the same with the printing press. Uh, I saw in your office you've got a a Uh, I saw in your office you've got a a Uh, I saw in your office you've got a a print of the original Luther Bible in print of the original Luther Bible in print of the original Luther Bible in your office. So, you can print scripture your office. So, you can print scripture your office. So, you can print scripture on paper or you can print porn.

on paper or you can print porn. on paper or you can print porn. >> It's paper isn't good or evil. It just >> It's paper isn't good or evil. It just >> It's paper isn't good or evil. It just reveals and amplifies what's already in reveals and amplifies what's already in reveals and amplifies what's already in the human heart. And I believe that the human heart. And I believe that the human heart. And I believe that until recently. And about a decade ago, until recently. And about a decade ago, until recently. And about a decade ago, really around the Cambridge Anal really around the Cambridge Anal really around the Cambridge Anal Analytica scandals, people started like Analytica scandals, people started like Analytica scandals, people started like Tristan Harris started asking questions Tristan Harris started asking questions Tristan Harris started asking questions like, "Huh, are there unintended like, "Huh, are there unintended like, "Huh, are there unintended consequences to social media?" like we consequences to social media?" like we consequences to social media?" like we started to see partisanship started to see partisanship started to see partisanship uh rise. We saw division rise. We saw uh rise. We saw division rise. We saw uh rise. We saw division rise. We saw loneliness rise. We saw youth and teen loneliness rise. We saw youth and teen loneliness rise. We saw youth and teen mental health really tank. And Jean mental health really tank. And Jean mental health really tank. And Jean Twangi, who I know you've had Twangi, who I know you've had Twangi, who I know you've had conversations with, she's been on the conversations with, she's been on the conversations with, she's been on the podcast. Um and Jonathan Height, you podcast. Um and Jonathan Height, you podcast. Um and Jonathan Height, you know, with the anxious generation, he know, with the anxious generation, he know, with the anxious generation, he crystallized crystallized crystallized what a lot of the research had been what a lot of the research had been what a lot of the research had been pointing at and has has changed the pointing at and has has changed the pointing at and has has changed the conversation. And I've heard other conversation. And I've heard other conversation. And I've heard other thought leaders say in 2026 I'm not sure thought leaders say in 2026 I'm not sure thought leaders say in 2026 I'm not sure anybody would look back on 25 years of anybody would look back on 25 years of anybody would look back on 25 years of social media and say that was a net good social media and say that was a net good social media and say that was a net good that we are better off. So number one that we are better off. So number one that we are better off. So number one feel free to disagree if if if if you feel free to disagree if if if if you feel free to disagree if if if if you have a different take on that but when I have a different take on that but when I have a different take on that but when I started looking at adding artificial started looking at adding artificial started looking at adding artificial intelligence into the mix. So right now intelligence into the mix. So right now intelligence into the mix. So right now you know one of the reasons pornography you know one of the reasons pornography you know one of the reasons pornography when you and I were kids was really hard when you and I were kids was really hard when you and I were kids was really hard to get. You had to be courageous. You to get. You had to be courageous. You to get. You had to be courageous. You had to go into a store. It was often in had to go into a store. It was often in had to go into a store. It was often in hidden behind brown paper bags and then hidden behind brown paper bags and then hidden behind brown paper bags and then you had to steal it and smuggle it. So, you had to steal it and smuggle it. So, you had to steal it and smuggle it. So, honestly, I just wasn't courageous honestly, I just wasn't courageous honestly, I just wasn't courageous enough. So, I didn't get I had some ear enough. So, I didn't get I had some ear enough. So, I didn't get I had some ear some early exposure, but not a ton.

some early exposure, but not a ton. some early exposure, but not a ton. >> If you're 8 years old today, it's just a >> If you're 8 years old today, it's just a >> If you're 8 years old today, it's just a gateway to whatever you want to find, gateway to whatever you want to find, gateway to whatever you want to find, right? Thanks to technology. right? Thanks to technology. right? Thanks to technology. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Porn is a big problem in almost every >> Porn is a big problem in almost every >> Porn is a big problem in almost every church. And but you start to add AI porn church. And but you start to add AI porn church. And but you start to add AI porn where you're creating an avatar that where you're creating an avatar that where you're creating an avatar that knows you, is trained on you, knows what knows you, is trained on you, knows what knows you, is trained on you, knows what to say. Um, and suddenly now you have to say. Um, and suddenly now you have to say. Um, and suddenly now you have couples that are in throppples. So he's couples that are in throppples. So he's couples that are in throppples. So he's got an AI chatbot that she his wife got an AI chatbot that she his wife got an AI chatbot that she his wife doesn't know about. And you know, no doesn't know about. And you know, no doesn't know about. And you know, no human being can compete with that. I human being can compete with that. I human being can compete with that. I have bad days. We've been on a week here have bad days. We've been on a week here have bad days. We've been on a week here in Silicon Valley. I've had to apologize in Silicon Valley. I've had to apologize in Silicon Valley. I've had to apologize to my wife more than once, Pat. It's to my wife more than once, Pat. It's to my wife more than once, Pat. It's surprising, but after 36 years of surprising, but after 36 years of surprising, but after 36 years of marriage, I still get it wrong. marriage, I still get it wrong. marriage, I still get it wrong. >> Um, AI is just going to say exactly what >> Um, AI is just going to say exactly what >> Um, AI is just going to say exactly what I want. So, you start adding sexuality I want. So, you start adding sexuality I want. So, you start adding sexuality into that. You've got a meaningful into that. You've got a meaningful into that. You've got a meaningful percentage of people who have a sexual percentage of people who have a sexual percentage of people who have a sexual relationship with their chatbot. I'm I'm relationship with their chatbot. I'm I'm relationship with their chatbot. I'm I'm very concerned about that and I think very concerned about that and I think very concerned about that and I think that that is going to make this the that that is going to make this the that that is going to make this the mental health crisis caused by social mental health crisis caused by social mental health crisis caused by social media look like the kitty pool. What are media look like the kitty pool. What are media look like the kitty pool. What are your concerns around mental health and your concerns around mental health and your concerns around mental health and AI?

AI? AI? >> Yeah. So let's you know first let's >> Yeah. So let's you know first let's >> Yeah. So let's you know first let's tease apart a little bit the social tease apart a little bit the social tease apart a little bit the social networking one. networking one. networking one. >> Sure. Yeah. >> Sure. Yeah. >> Sure. Yeah. >> And you know I helped to create net >> And you know I helped to create net >> And you know I helped to create net neutrality. neutrality. neutrality. >> Oh great. Okay. Explain that. >> Oh great. Okay. Explain that. >> Oh great. Okay. Explain that. >> Which was you know basically the >> Which was you know basically the >> Which was you know basically the carriage rules and at the time there was carriage rules and at the time there was carriage rules and at the time there was all of these you know uh walled gardens all of these you know uh walled gardens all of these you know uh walled gardens around the internet. Right. And we around the internet. Right. And we around the internet. Right. And we created this open environment and that created this open environment and that created this open environment and that became what was uh the 230 laws which became what was uh the 230 laws which became what was uh the 230 laws which essentially have governed the evolution essentially have governed the evolution essentially have governed the evolution of the internet for a couple of decades. of the internet for a couple of decades. of the internet for a couple of decades. So essentially I helped to create the So essentially I helped to create the So essentially I helped to create the framework that allowed social networking framework that allowed social networking framework that allowed social networking to emerge. to emerge. to emerge. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. So uh you know I consider myself >> Okay. So uh you know I consider myself >> Okay. So uh you know I consider myself somewhat somewhat somewhat responsibility for that environment. And responsibility for that environment. And responsibility for that environment. And you know I've also said that uh you know you know I've also said that uh you know you know I've also said that uh you know the entire social networking industry the entire social networking industry the entire social networking industry had no accountability for 22 years until had no accountability for 22 years until had no accountability for 22 years until the recent lawsuits right you know that the recent lawsuits right you know that the recent lawsuits right you know that you know came out against it. To me that you know came out against it. To me that you know came out against it. To me that is hideous, right? You know that these is hideous, right? You know that these is hideous, right? You know that these enormous social networking companies had enormous social networking companies had enormous social networking companies had no accountability for the truth, the no accountability for the truth, the no accountability for the truth, the validity, right? And the implications of validity, right? And the implications of validity, right? And the implications of the content running on their platform, the content running on their platform, the content running on their platform, right? So to me that was a failure of right? So to me that was a failure of right? So to me that was a failure of you know the regulation of those you know the regulation of those you know the regulation of those companies right you know if I'm running companies right you know if I'm running companies right you know if I'm running a radio station right and I abuse you a radio station right and I abuse you a radio station right and I abuse you there liel laws.

there liel laws. there liel laws. >> Yes. Right. You know we had sue me. >> Yes. Right. You know we had sue me. >> Yes. Right. You know we had sue me. >> Yeah. Right. associated with that. You >> Yeah. Right. associated with that. You >> Yeah. Right. associated with that. You know, I can protect, you know, know, I can protect, you know, know, I can protect, you know, defamation of me, right? You know, we defamation of me, right? You know, we defamation of me, right? You know, we have technologies that allow for deep have technologies that allow for deep have technologies that allow for deep fakes. fakes. fakes. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. You know, with high probability >> Right. You know, with high probability >> Right. You know, with high probability that I can identify deep takes. There's that I can identify deep takes. There's that I can identify deep takes. There's no requirements in social networking to no requirements in social networking to no requirements in social networking to identify deep fakes, right? The identify deep fakes, right? The identify deep fakes, right? The technology is pretty good, but yet, you technology is pretty good, but yet, you technology is pretty good, but yet, you know, we can have deep fakes all over. know, we can have deep fakes all over. know, we can have deep fakes all over. So, I'll say there was a, you know, two So, I'll say there was a, you know, two So, I'll say there was a, you know, two plus decade lack of accountability for plus decade lack of accountability for plus decade lack of accountability for that entire business model. And and just that entire business model. And and just that entire business model. And and just to make that clear, that could happen on to make that clear, that could happen on to make that clear, that could happen on the internet, but if you tried that on the internet, but if you tried that on the internet, but if you tried that on Fox, CBS, NBC, ABC, which were Fox, CBS, NBC, ABC, which were Fox, CBS, NBC, ABC, which were regulated, regulated, regulated, you you were probably out of business you you were probably out of business you you were probably out of business with lawsuits. with lawsuits. with lawsuits. >> Yeah. And now for the first time, right, >> Yeah. And now for the first time, right, >> Yeah. And now for the first time, right, you know, with the recent lawsuits, you know, with the recent lawsuits, you know, with the recent lawsuits, there's some form of accountability there's some form of accountability there's some form of accountability emerging. There's thousands of lawsuits emerging. There's thousands of lawsuits emerging. There's thousands of lawsuits behind it, right? You know, someone like behind it, right? You know, someone like behind it, right? You know, someone like that there, you know, so we we as a that there, you know, so we we as a that there, you know, so we we as a nation, we as an industry allow this to nation, we as an industry allow this to nation, we as an industry allow this to occur, right? And I will say we as a occur, right? And I will say we as a occur, right? And I will say we as a valuesdriven community were not at the valuesdriven community were not at the valuesdriven community were not at the table. table. table. >> Okay, fair enough. >> Okay, fair enough. >> Okay, fair enough. >> So, you know, I will say we, you know, >> So, you know, I will say we, you know, >> So, you know, I will say we, you know, failed our responsibility to be failed our responsibility to be failed our responsibility to be demanding because many of the data sets demanding because many of the data sets demanding because many of the data sets for this, you know, were well evidenced for this, you know, were well evidenced for this, you know, were well evidenced 15 years ago.

15 years ago. 15 years ago. >> I was going to say when did that first >> I was going to say when did that first >> I was going to say when did that first tweak in your mind that oh maybe this is tweak in your mind that oh maybe this is tweak in your mind that oh maybe this is these are some unintended consequences. these are some unintended consequences. these are some unintended consequences. >> 15 years ago. >> 15 years ago. >> 15 years ago. >> 15 years ago. So around 2010 2012 >> 15 years ago. So around 2010 2012 >> 15 years ago. So around 2010 2012 >> some of that data was starting to come >> some of that data was starting to come >> some of that data was starting to come to light of the unintended con to light of the unintended con to light of the unintended con consequences of social networking. consequences of social networking. consequences of social networking. >> Why wasn't the regulation sooner? Well, >> Why wasn't the regulation sooner? Well, >> Why wasn't the regulation sooner? Well, you know, you it's an interesting, you you know, you it's an interesting, you you know, you it's an interesting, you know, I can't say I've studied it know, I can't say I've studied it know, I can't say I've studied it carefully enough, right? You know, uh to carefully enough, right? You know, uh to carefully enough, right? You know, uh to give a declarative answer on that, you give a declarative answer on that, you give a declarative answer on that, you know, but I do think this momentum, know, but I do think this momentum, know, but I do think this momentum, right, of this burgeoning technology right, of this burgeoning technology right, of this burgeoning technology industry, the race to be first, right, industry, the race to be first, right, industry, the race to be first, right, uh in the world, the strength of them, uh in the world, the strength of them, uh in the world, the strength of them, right, you know, allowed, right, you right, you know, allowed, right, you right, you know, allowed, right, you know, them to just, you know, run know, them to just, you know, run know, them to just, you know, run ramshod, right, uh over any of those, uh ramshod, right, uh over any of those, uh ramshod, right, uh over any of those, uh concerns. concerns. concerns. >> We're right there. >> We're right there. >> We're right there. >> Yeah. I mean >> Yeah. I mean >> Yeah. I mean >> and and in retrospect it was bad for >> and and in retrospect it was bad for >> and and in retrospect it was bad for humanity. So I'll say you know humanity. So I'll say you know humanity. So I'll say you know technology itself was the internet good technology itself was the internet good technology itself was the internet good or bad right and I'll just say hey you or bad right and I'll just say hey you or bad right and I'll just say hey you know whole lot is good right I'm able to know whole lot is good right I'm able to know whole lot is good right I'm able to talk to people you know I'm able to you talk to people you know I'm able to you talk to people you know I'm able to you know connect with people I'm able to do know connect with people I'm able to do know connect with people I'm able to do remote surgeries in other parts of the remote surgeries in other parts of the remote surgeries in other parts of the you know all of these things you say oh you know all of these things you say oh you know all of these things you say oh there was clearly good there was clearly good there was clearly good >> but then you look at some of these >> but then you look at some of these >> but then you look at some of these social consequences social consequences social consequences not good and when you weigh on the scale not good and when you weigh on the scale not good and when you weigh on the scale of good versus not good was God of good versus not good was God of good versus not good was God surprised by the internet absolutely not surprised by the internet absolutely not surprised by the internet absolutely not was he satisfied with how his people his was he satisfied with how his people his was he satisfied with how his people his church showed up to shape it for good.

church showed up to shape it for good. church showed up to shape it for good. Remember Gutenberg was a great inventor, Remember Gutenberg was a great inventor, Remember Gutenberg was a great inventor, an entrepreneur. an entrepreneur. an entrepreneur. Luther made it good. Luther made it good. Luther made it good. And in that, you know, the, you know, And in that, you know, the, you know, And in that, you know, the, you know, the mantra that I have in this age of AI the mantra that I have in this age of AI the mantra that I have in this age of AI as a Gutenberg like moment, right, is as a Gutenberg like moment, right, is as a Gutenberg like moment, right, is will we the church, we the values will we the church, we the values will we the church, we the values community show up to make it good? Will community show up to make it good? Will community show up to make it good? Will we be the Luther of this age? because we be the Luther of this age? because we be the Luther of this age? because clearly you know if it just builds on clearly you know if it just builds on clearly you know if it just builds on the momentum that we have from social the momentum that we have from social the momentum that we have from social networking the answer is it won't right networking the answer is it won't right networking the answer is it won't right you know so I do think you know that's you know so I do think you know that's you know so I do think you know that's why I say you know I think this why I say you know I think this why I say you know I think this conversation right of the ethics of AI conversation right of the ethics of AI conversation right of the ethics of AI the morals of AI the values of AI is so the morals of AI the values of AI is so the morals of AI the values of AI is so you know critical at this moment of time you know critical at this moment of time you know critical at this moment of time because if it's going to be different because if it's going to be different because if it's going to be different than the social networking we must show than the social networking we must show than the social networking we must show up loudly forcefully meaningfully up loudly forcefully meaningfully up loudly forcefully meaningfully thoughtfully into those uh conversations thoughtfully into those uh conversations thoughtfully into those uh conversations or I think some of the scenarios that or I think some of the scenarios that or I think some of the scenarios that you draw will occur. you draw will occur. you draw will occur. >> Couldn't agree more. And that's why I'm >> Couldn't agree more. And that's why I'm >> Couldn't agree more. And that's why I'm having this conversation, why I wrote having this conversation, why I wrote having this conversation, why I wrote the book and all of those things. It's the book and all of those things. It's the book and all of those things. It's like it's time for the church to show like it's time for the church to show like it's time for the church to show up.

up. up. >> Yeah. And I want churches to have voices >> Yeah. And I want churches to have voices >> Yeah. And I want churches to have voices on this. I want pastors to be thoughtful on this. I want pastors to be thoughtful on this. I want pastors to be thoughtful on it, you know, but I want them to be on it, you know, but I want them to be on it, you know, but I want them to be able to, you know, interact with their able to, you know, interact with their able to, you know, interact with their congregations. How do we use AI as a congregations. How do we use AI as a congregations. How do we use AI as a force for good? You know, how are you force for good? You know, how are you force for good? You know, how are you going to use it with your children? You going to use it with your children? You going to use it with your children? You know, remember, you know, right? You know, remember, you know, right? You know, remember, you know, right? You know, the drug label reads as follows. know, the drug label reads as follows. know, the drug label reads as follows. you know, increases social you know, increases social you know, increases social disengagement, worsens academic uh disengagement, worsens academic uh disengagement, worsens academic uh performance, increases the risk of performance, increases the risk of performance, increases the risk of sexual preditation, right? And uh leads sexual preditation, right? And uh leads sexual preditation, right? And uh leads to less uh human engagement. to less uh human engagement. to less uh human engagement. >> Okay. That is the label of social >> Okay. That is the label of social >> Okay. That is the label of social networking. networking. networking. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Right. You would you allow allow that in >> Right. You would you allow allow that in >> Right. You would you allow allow that in your family? Would you give that to your your family? Would you give that to your your family? Would you give that to your kids? kids? kids? >> Well, you were and not not to be, you >> Well, you were and not not to be, you >> Well, you were and not not to be, you know, unnecessarily personal, but we know, unnecessarily personal, but we know, unnecessarily personal, but we were talking about kids and grandkids were talking about kids and grandkids were talking about kids and grandkids before we started recording. You showed before we started recording. You showed before we started recording. You showed me a picture of your family. You know, me a picture of your family. You know, me a picture of your family. You know, there's data that 72% of teenagers have there's data that 72% of teenagers have there's data that 72% of teenagers have a relationship with AI and 31% would say a relationship with AI and 31% would say a relationship with AI and 31% would say that relationship is sexual. So, in that relationship is sexual. So, in that relationship is sexual. So, in youth groups around the country now, youth groups around the country now, youth groups around the country now, some of the very first relationships and some of the very first relationships and some of the very first relationships and sexual experiences that teenagers are sexual experiences that teenagers are sexual experiences that teenagers are having is with an AI, a nonhuman.

having is with an AI, a nonhuman. having is with an AI, a nonhuman. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I mean, >> And I mean, >> And I mean, >> youth pastors for as long as there been >> youth pastors for as long as there been >> youth pastors for as long as there been youth pastors have been dealing with youth pastors have been dealing with youth pastors have been dealing with teens and sex. I mean, that's just teens and sex. I mean, that's just teens and sex. I mean, that's just that's a that's a that's a >> part of the job. >> part of the job. >> part of the job. >> It's a human issue. It's part of the >> It's a human issue. It's part of the >> It's a human issue. It's part of the job. job. job. >> But this brings us into a whole new >> But this brings us into a whole new >> But this brings us into a whole new category that we hadn't really thought category that we hadn't really thought category that we hadn't really thought of. We we've we've sort of got a track of. We we've we've sort of got a track of. We we've we've sort of got a track record on early exposure to porn, how to record on early exposure to porn, how to record on early exposure to porn, how to limit it, block the phones, etc. But limit it, block the phones, etc. But limit it, block the phones, etc. But kids always find workarounds. But, you kids always find workarounds. But, you kids always find workarounds. But, you know, when when when that AI is know, when when when that AI is know, when when when that AI is monetized like social media is to keep monetized like social media is to keep monetized like social media is to keep that person engaged, to increase screen that person engaged, to increase screen that person engaged, to increase screen time, etc. Um what worries do you have time, etc. Um what worries do you have time, etc. Um what worries do you have about mental health in the future? about mental health in the future? about mental health in the future? >> Well, I I do similar you know I'll say >> Well, I I do similar you know I'll say >> Well, I I do similar you know I'll say building on the social networking that building on the social networking that building on the social networking that you know mental health could you know you know mental health could you know you know mental health could you know you know my my chatbot becomes my best you know my my chatbot becomes my best you know my my chatbot becomes my best friend. friend. friend. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. Where you know I think you know >> Right. Where you know I think you know >> Right. Where you know I think you know AI needs to be bringing me into AI needs to be bringing me into AI needs to be bringing me into relationship you know not taking me from relationship you know not taking me from relationship you know not taking me from it. it. it. >> So how does it do that? >> So how does it do that? >> So how does it do that? >> Well hey you can build AI with guard >> Well hey you can build AI with guard >> Well hey you can build AI with guard rails you know that's some of the work rails you know that's some of the work rails you know that's some of the work that we're doing at Glue. Yeah. you know that we're doing at Glue. Yeah. you know that we're doing at Glue. Yeah. you know for for instance okay you know right I for for instance okay you know right I for for instance okay you know right I now realize that this is now creating now realize that this is now creating now realize that this is now creating you less social engagement I'm making you less social engagement I'm making you less social engagement I'm making you suicidal I need to get you to a you suicidal I need to get you to a you suicidal I need to get you to a human right you know it's time for the human right you know it's time for the human right you know it's time for the chat to end right you know you know it chat to end right you know you know it chat to end right you know you know it was like you know the you know the was like you know the you know the was like you know the you know the famous suicide you know case right you famous suicide you know case right you famous suicide you know case right you know it was like thousands right of know it was like thousands right of know it was like thousands right of turns in the conversation multiple turns in the conversation multiple turns in the conversation multiple instances of suicidal and there was instances of suicidal and there was instances of suicidal and there was nothing done and the people running the nothing done and the people running the nothing done and the people running the chat service knew it. Yeah.

chat service knew it. Yeah. chat service knew it. Yeah. >> Right. And nothing was done. Not okay. >> Right. And nothing was done. Not okay. >> Right. And nothing was done. Not okay. You know, we should demand regulatory You know, we should demand regulatory You know, we should demand regulatory frameworks that have off ramps onto frameworks that have off ramps onto frameworks that have off ramps onto human interactions, onto suicide human interactions, onto suicide human interactions, onto suicide prevention, you know, and as parents, we prevention, you know, and as parents, we prevention, you know, and as parents, we should be demanding, you know, that I'm should be demanding, you know, that I'm should be demanding, you know, that I'm going to be on a chat service that has going to be on a chat service that has going to be on a chat service that has proper guard rails associated with it, proper guard rails associated with it, proper guard rails associated with it, right? And I'm going to make sure my right? And I'm going to make sure my right? And I'm going to make sure my family is likewise. family is likewise. family is likewise. And And And >> and I agree with you 100%. So we have a >> and I agree with you 100%. So we have a >> and I agree with you 100%. So we have a current political environment which is current political environment which is current political environment which is against regulation of AI um anthropic against regulation of AI um anthropic against regulation of AI um anthropic called UNIN uh called a number of other called UNIN uh called a number of other called UNIN uh called a number of other people I know in those are really good people I know in those are really good people I know in those are really good conversations they want theologians they conversations they want theologians they conversations they want theologians they want ethicists they want philosophers want ethicists they want philosophers want ethicists they want philosophers around the table and I think it's around the table and I think it's around the table and I think it's generally seen in Silicon Valley that generally seen in Silicon Valley that generally seen in Silicon Valley that anthropic is probably the most ethical anthropic is probably the most ethical anthropic is probably the most ethical of the companies meta Facebook of the companies meta Facebook of the companies meta Facebook Zuckerberg very different ethos uh and Zuckerberg very different ethos uh and Zuckerberg very different ethos uh and open AI I seems to release and then open AI I seems to release and then open AI I seems to release and then figure out what the consequences are figure out what the consequences are figure out what the consequences are down the road for good or bad. And it's down the road for good or bad. And it's down the road for good or bad. And it's got a number both Meta and well got a number both Meta and well got a number both Meta and well Anthropic has lawsuits as well, but Anthropic has lawsuits as well, but Anthropic has lawsuits as well, but OpenAI and and Meta have numerous suits OpenAI and and Meta have numerous suits OpenAI and and Meta have numerous suits against them right now on that. Um, against them right now on that. Um, against them right now on that. Um, how do you start how do you start how do you start as a pastor of a local church as a pastor of a local church as a pastor of a local church to or or a concerned business leader in to or or a concerned business leader in to or or a concerned business leader in a community or just a private citizen?

a community or just a private citizen? a community or just a private citizen? These are the biggest companies in the These are the biggest companies in the These are the biggest companies in the world. Trillion dollar valuations and world. Trillion dollar valuations and world. Trillion dollar valuations and beyond. Couple going public maybe by the beyond. Couple going public maybe by the beyond. Couple going public maybe by the time this releases. time this releases. time this releases. >> How do you how do you even make a dent >> How do you how do you even make a dent >> How do you how do you even make a dent in that universe? How do you how do you in that universe? How do you how do you in that universe? How do you how do you get your voice heard, your concerns get your voice heard, your concerns get your voice heard, your concerns heard? heard? heard? >> Well, you know, I think you know, like >> Well, you know, I think you know, like >> Well, you know, I think you know, like anything, right? You know, something's anything, right? You know, something's anything, right? You know, something's wrong in the world. wrong in the world. wrong in the world. >> Yeah. Yeah. Every day since Adam, >> Yeah. Yeah. Every day since Adam, >> Yeah. Yeah. Every day since Adam, >> make your voice make your voice heard on >> make your voice make your voice heard on >> make your voice make your voice heard on it. You know, how do you vote with your it. You know, how do you vote with your it. You know, how do you vote with your eyeballs, right? With your wallets as eyeballs, right? With your wallets as eyeballs, right? With your wallets as business leaders. Okay. you know what business leaders. Okay. you know what business leaders. Okay. you know what are you choosing right you know for it are you choosing right you know for it are you choosing right you know for it and you know like I say you know glue and you know like I say you know glue and you know like I say you know glue you know we are working to you know you know we are working to you know you know we are working to you know create offerings that make this good create offerings that make this good create offerings that make this good yeah yeah yeah >> right you know and you like one of the >> right you know and you like one of the >> right you know and you like one of the fun things that you know we have you fun things that you know we have you fun things that you know we have you know one slide that summarizes if you know one slide that summarizes if you know one slide that summarizes if you run any of those models meta gemini you run any of those models meta gemini you run any of those models meta gemini you know anthropic etc or you run it through know anthropic etc or you run it through know anthropic etc or you run it through the glue guard rails you know we make it the glue guard rails you know we make it the glue guard rails you know we make it on average 20% more values aligned on average 20% more values aligned on average 20% more values aligned >> right we move it from mediocre scores to >> right we move it from mediocre scores to >> right we move it from mediocre scores to good scores so right so I want you uh good scores so right so I want you uh good scores so right so I want you uh you know use those models through the you know use those models through the you know use those models through the glue guard rails glue guard rails glue guard rails >> right so if we start applying what glue >> right so if we start applying what glue >> right so if we start applying what glue is developing in AI you're going to get is developing in AI you're going to get is developing in AI you're going to get more theologically astute answers more more theologically astute answers more more theologically astute answers more >> values alignment we're going to off you >> values alignment we're going to off you >> values alignment we're going to off you know hey we will detect that this is know hey we will detect that this is know hey we will detect that this is becoming a suicidal relationship right becoming a suicidal relationship right becoming a suicidal relationship right you know we'll get you you know offboard you know we'll get you you know offboard you know we'll get you you know offboard as appropriate you know all of those as appropriate you know all of those as appropriate you know all of those things that you say okay the technology things that you say okay the technology things that you say okay the technology is neutral let's use things to make it is neutral let's use things to make it is neutral let's use things to make it good right in that right you know and good right in that right you know and good right in that right you know and also clearly social voices. What are you

also clearly social voices. What are you also clearly social voices. What are you going to what as you as a school board going to what as you as a school board going to what as you as a school board member, what are you going to allow in member, what are you going to allow in member, what are you going to allow in your school and what are going to be the your school and what are going to be the your school and what are going to be the guard rails for your use of AI in the guard rails for your use of AI in the guard rails for your use of AI in the school? It's going to get used, school? It's going to get used, school? It's going to get used, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> What guardrails are you going to put on >> What guardrails are you going to put on >> What guardrails are you going to put on it? Requirements. So, it isn't just it? Requirements. So, it isn't just it? Requirements. So, it isn't just national regulation, right? You know, national regulation, right? You know, national regulation, right? You know, all all politics are local. all all politics are local. all all politics are local. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> What are you going to do in your >> What are you going to do in your >> What are you going to do in your community? What are you going to do in community? What are you going to do in community? What are you going to do in your church? What are you going to do in your church? What are you going to do in your church? What are you going to do in your city? What are you going to do in your city? What are you going to do in your city? What are you going to do in your state? you know all of these right your state? you know all of these right your state? you know all of these right and every one of those needs to be and every one of those needs to be and every one of those needs to be influenced to say you know hey we missed influenced to say you know hey we missed influenced to say you know hey we missed it on social networking AI is much more it on social networking AI is much more it on social networking AI is much more important than that one let's take that important than that one let's take that important than that one let's take that as a wake-up call and demand an as a wake-up call and demand an as a wake-up call and demand an understanding of the values alignment understanding of the values alignment understanding of the values alignment for every school board for every for every school board for every for every school board for every classroom for every child you know for classroom for every child you know for classroom for every child you know for every congregation you know for every every congregation you know for every every congregation you know for every business user as well to rise up and say business user as well to rise up and say business user as well to rise up and say no I'm going to insist this one is no I'm going to insist this one is no I'm going to insist this one is better because I saw what happened with better because I saw what happened with better because I saw what happened with that one, right? Let's talk about that one, right? Let's talk about that one, right? Let's talk about economic impact. So, in 2025, Daario economic impact. So, in 2025, Daario economic impact. So, in 2025, Daario Amade, the founder of Enthropic, got up Amade, the founder of Enthropic, got up Amade, the founder of Enthropic, got up and very famously said there was going and very famously said there was going and very famously said there was going to be a white collar blood bath. And to be a white collar blood bath. And to be a white collar blood bath. And then we've seen tens of thousands of then we've seen tens of thousands of then we've seen tens of thousands of layoffs. And this is probably the layoffs. And this is probably the layoffs. And this is probably the hardest part of the book to write for hardest part of the book to write for hardest part of the book to write for me. And we we had some good back and me. And we we had some good back and me. And we we had some good back and forth on that, Pat, because uh you know, forth on that, Pat, because uh you know, forth on that, Pat, because uh you know, the doomsdayers are saying, "Oh, it the doomsdayers are saying, "Oh, it the doomsdayers are saying, "Oh, it could be 20 30% unemployment. It'll be could be 20 30% unemployment. It'll be could be 20 30% unemployment. It'll be the great um depression all over again."

the great um depression all over again." the great um depression all over again." Um but but the challenge here is it Um but but the challenge here is it Um but but the challenge here is it looks like white collar jobs are among looks like white collar jobs are among looks like white collar jobs are among the easiest to replace or to automate the easiest to replace or to automate the easiest to replace or to automate using AI. Now, the unemployment rate using AI. Now, the unemployment rate using AI. Now, the unemployment rate really hasn't moved that much um overall really hasn't moved that much um overall really hasn't moved that much um overall and but the concern would be and but the concern would be and but the concern would be if it does and you're unemployable, not if it does and you're unemployable, not if it does and you're unemployable, not just unemployed but unemployable because just unemployed but unemployable because just unemployed but unemployable because all the entry- level accountants jobs all the entry- level accountants jobs all the entry- level accountants jobs are gone and they've been automated or are gone and they've been automated or are gone and they've been automated or you just graduated law school or you're you just graduated law school or you're you just graduated law school or you're a junior programmer, not a senior a junior programmer, not a senior a junior programmer, not a senior programmer and so we're not hiring programmer and so we're not hiring programmer and so we're not hiring junior programmers because Claude Code junior programmers because Claude Code junior programmers because Claude Code is writing all of our code. um that is writing all of our code. um that is writing all of our code. um that starts to create an economic dislocation starts to create an economic dislocation starts to create an economic dislocation that we haven't really seen in our that we haven't really seen in our that we haven't really seen in our lifetime. The jobs that we want our lifetime. The jobs that we want our lifetime. The jobs that we want our children to get are the jobs most children to get are the jobs most children to get are the jobs most threatened. I'd love your thoughts on threatened. I'd love your thoughts on threatened. I'd love your thoughts on what some of the economic impact or what some of the economic impact or what some of the economic impact or fallout of artificial intelligence might fallout of artificial intelligence might fallout of artificial intelligence might be. be. be. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I I I love the >> Yeah. Yeah. And I I I love the >> Yeah. Yeah. And I I I love the conversation.

conversation. conversation. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. um you know you you every >> Right. um you know you you every >> Right. um you know you you every technology over the last you know 500 technology over the last you know 500 technology over the last you know 500 years you know has been studied and it years you know has been studied and it years you know has been studied and it has destroyed jobs and it's created more has destroyed jobs and it's created more has destroyed jobs and it's created more jobs than it's destroyed jobs than it's destroyed jobs than it's destroyed >> right >> right >> right >> right when all is said and done right >> right when all is said and done right >> right when all is said and done right you know right thing and if you were you you know right thing and if you were you you know right thing and if you were you know one of the farmers that were know one of the farmers that were know one of the farmers that were dislocated I'm a farming family used to dislocated I'm a farming family used to dislocated I'm a farming family used to be 93% of the workforce in the US now be 93% of the workforce in the US now be 93% of the workforce in the US now it's 2% it's 2% it's 2% >> wow how terrible [laughter] you know we >> wow how terrible [laughter] you know we >> wow how terrible [laughter] you know we don't think about it that terrible you don't think about it that terrible you don't think about it that terrible you know know know But But But >> but you found a job. >> but you found a job. >> but you found a job. >> I I and you see that industry by >> I I and you see that industry by >> I I and you see that industry by industry, you know, that's occurred. industry, you know, that's occurred. industry, you know, that's occurred. This will destroy jobs. It will also This will destroy jobs. It will also This will destroy jobs. It will also create jobs. create jobs. create jobs. >> And this one I do think and I think >> And this one I do think and I think >> And this one I do think and I think Dario is right in this, you know, that Dario is right in this, you know, that Dario is right in this, you know, that I'll call low-end white collar jobs will I'll call low-end white collar jobs will I'll call low-end white collar jobs will get hit first and hardest. get hit first and hardest. get hit first and hardest. >> Customer service. Another example. >> Customer service. Another example. >> Customer service. Another example. >> Yeah. And you know, I find it humorous. >> Yeah. And you know, I find it humorous. >> Yeah. And you know, I find it humorous. What's the first industry that's really What's the first industry that's really What's the first industry that's really being hit? Software. being hit? Software. being hit? Software. >> Yes. Yeah, you know, so the software >> Yes. Yeah, you know, so the software >> Yes. Yeah, you know, so the software guys have created the tools that are guys have created the tools that are guys have created the tools that are eliminating the software jobs, you know, eliminating the software jobs, you know, eliminating the software jobs, you know, how ironic, right? You you for it. But, how ironic, right? You you for it. But, how ironic, right? You you for it. But, you know, hey, entry level attorneys, you know, hey, entry level attorneys, you know, hey, entry level attorneys, entry- level finance people, all of entry- level finance people, all of entry- level finance people, all of those because so much of the things those because so much of the things those because so much of the things that, you know, junior pair, junior that, you know, junior pair, junior that, you know, junior pair, junior finance, parillegals, etc. are doing are finance, parillegals, etc. are doing are finance, parillegals, etc. are doing are going to get entirely automated by AI in going to get entirely automated by AI in going to get entirely automated by AI in extraordinary ways associated with it.

extraordinary ways associated with it. extraordinary ways associated with it. And as I talked to, you know, people And as I talked to, you know, people And as I talked to, you know, people going into finance and school and legal going into finance and school and legal going into finance and school and legal in school and marketing in school, I in school and marketing in school, I in school and marketing in school, I says, "When you enter the workforce, I says, "When you enter the workforce, I says, "When you enter the workforce, I want you to be so AI supercharged that want you to be so AI supercharged that want you to be so AI supercharged that nobody that you're going up against in a nobody that you're going up against in a nobody that you're going up against in a job can keep up with you." Right? You job can keep up with you." Right? You job can keep up with you." Right? You know, and I think that's the objective know, and I think that's the objective know, and I think that's the objective of education of the day. How do I take of education of the day. How do I take of education of the day. How do I take AI and apply it to all of these that you AI and apply it to all of these that you AI and apply it to all of these that you know the graduates coming out of our know the graduates coming out of our know the graduates coming out of our schools today are so supercharged they schools today are so supercharged they schools today are so supercharged they just blow people away on how well they just blow people away on how well they just blow people away on how well they use this new tool because truly the use this new tool because truly the use this new tool because truly the productivity and efficiency of these new productivity and efficiency of these new productivity and efficiency of these new tools is just mind-blowing right when tools is just mind-blowing right when tools is just mind-blowing right when you consider you know the possibility you consider you know the possibility you consider you know the possibility there and as an economy we should be the there and as an economy we should be the there and as an economy we should be the first to put those to place because you first to put those to place because you first to put those to place because you know are we going to be the ones know are we going to be the ones know are we going to be the ones displaced or are we going to be better displaced or are we going to be better displaced or are we going to be better than Europe, Japan, Asia and so on than Europe, Japan, Asia and so on than Europe, Japan, Asia and so on because remember you know outsourcing because remember you know outsourcing because remember you know outsourcing displace blue collar jobs, displace blue collar jobs, displace blue collar jobs, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Right. You know, we moved all of our >> Right. You know, we moved all of our >> Right. You know, we moved all of our jobs. That's why we sort of hollowed out jobs. That's why we sort of hollowed out jobs. That's why we sort of hollowed out the middle of the nation. How terrible. the middle of the nation. How terrible. the middle of the nation. How terrible. Right. Well, now what do I need to do in Right. Well, now what do I need to do in Right. Well, now what do I need to do in the US? I need to build factories and the US? I need to build factories and the US? I need to build factories and data centers. Right. You know, you're data centers. Right. You know, you're data centers. Right. You know, you're now seeing a surge of skilled bluecollar now seeing a surge of skilled bluecollar now seeing a surge of skilled bluecollar jobs.

jobs. jobs. >> Electricians, >> Electricians, >> Electricians, you know, concrete workers, precision you know, concrete workers, precision you know, concrete workers, precision welding, all of those kind of things. welding, all of those kind of things. welding, all of those kind of things. So, you know, it's sort of like, huh, So, you know, it's sort of like, huh, So, you know, it's sort of like, huh, we're back to the blue collar, the we're back to the blue collar, the we're back to the blue collar, the lowend white collar is going away. But lowend white collar is going away. But lowend white collar is going away. But fundamentally AI will create economic fundamentally AI will create economic fundamentally AI will create economic efficiency right and you know at the end efficiency right and you know at the end efficiency right and you know at the end of the day if we have a more efficient of the day if we have a more efficient of the day if we have a more efficient economy you know we will do well as a economy you know we will do well as a economy you know we will do well as a nation we will do well as a city you nation we will do well as a city you nation we will do well as a city you know well as a you know business know well as a you know business know well as a you know business associated with it so you must embrace associated with it so you must embrace associated with it so you must embrace these tools right if you're not going to these tools right if you're not going to these tools right if you're not going to be displaced by people that do so's be displaced by people that do so's be displaced by people that do so's quote I I think is is has at least been quote I I think is is has at least been quote I I think is is has at least been very persuasive to me or at least very persuasive to me or at least very persuasive to me or at least alarming to me he's the co-founder of alarming to me he's the co-founder of alarming to me he's the co-founder of Google DeepMind. But Demis said the Google DeepMind. But Demis said the Google DeepMind. But Demis said the challenge is and you're right like you challenge is and you're right like you challenge is and you're right like you look at the industrial revolution look at the industrial revolution look at the industrial revolution 150 years of complete dislocation from 150 years of complete dislocation from 150 years of complete dislocation from the farms to the cities to factories. the farms to the cities to factories. the farms to the cities to factories. But it took us about 150 years to But it took us about 150 years to But it took us about 150 years to adjust. That's when we said oh you know adjust. That's when we said oh you know adjust. That's when we said oh you know 18 hours a day probably is not a good 18 hours a day probably is not a good 18 hours a day probably is not a good workday and your 5-year-old shouldn't be workday and your 5-year-old shouldn't be workday and your 5-year-old shouldn't be at the mill and you had three children at the mill and you had three children at the mill and you had three children and two of them died in accidents in and two of them died in accidents in and two of them died in accidents in industry. And so we got legislation and industry. And so we got legislation and industry. And so we got legislation and the economy adapted and we figured out the economy adapted and we figured out the economy adapted and we figured out eventually with Henry Ford the 40-hour eventually with Henry Ford the 40-hour eventually with Henry Ford the 40-hour work week and uh there were protections work week and uh there were protections work week and uh there were protections for workers and so we figured out how for workers and so we figured out how for workers and so we figured out how that worked. But his point is we had 150 that worked. But his point is we had 150 that worked. But his point is we had 150 years to figure that out. He says the years to figure that out. He says the years to figure that out. He says the problem with AI is it will be 10 times problem with AI is it will be 10 times problem with AI is it will be 10 times faster and 10 times bigger and we might faster and 10 times bigger and we might faster and 10 times bigger and we might be through a period of dislocation. What

be through a period of dislocation. What be through a period of dislocation. What are your thoughts on on that framing? are your thoughts on on that framing? are your thoughts on on that framing? >> Yeah. Well, first I think it will be >> Yeah. Well, first I think it will be >> Yeah. Well, first I think it will be faster. faster. faster. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. you know just way faster. I don't >> Right. you know just way faster. I don't >> Right. you know just way faster. I don't think it'll be 10 times faster but I think it'll be 10 times faster but I think it'll be 10 times faster but I think over the next decade decade and a think over the next decade decade and a think over the next decade decade and a half you will see major industries being half you will see major industries being half you will see major industries being impacted by AI in very fundamental ways impacted by AI in very fundamental ways impacted by AI in very fundamental ways right you know so on so I do think you right you know so on so I do think you right you know so on so I do think you know hey it will be a very disrupted know hey it will be a very disrupted know hey it will be a very disrupted decade decade decade >> right uh as a result I don't think of it >> right uh as a result I don't think of it >> right uh as a result I don't think of it as 10 times bigger as 10 times bigger as 10 times bigger >> okay >> okay >> okay >> right you know in that sense but it'll >> right you know in that sense but it'll >> right you know in that sense but it'll be big right I will say you know the be big right I will say you know the be big right I will say you know the low-end white collar jobs you know those low-end white collar jobs you know those low-end white collar jobs you know those are going to be the ones that are going are going to be the ones that are going are going to be the ones that are going to be hardest to be hardest to be hardest >> why not 10 times bigger Well, because >> why not 10 times bigger Well, because >> why not 10 times bigger Well, because you know even even with the software you know even even with the software you know even even with the software generation, right? You know the impact generation, right? You know the impact generation, right? You know the impact that you're having in software. Did uh that you're having in software. Did uh that you're having in software. Did uh Microsoft decrease its workforce by 90%. Microsoft decrease its workforce by 90%. Microsoft decrease its workforce by 90%. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> No, it decreased it by 10%. And the >> No, it decreased it by 10%. And the >> No, it decreased it by 10%. And the productivity of their software has productivity of their software has productivity of their software has increased so much as they're unleashing increased so much as they're unleashing increased so much as they're unleashing these tools and all of their programmers these tools and all of their programmers these tools and all of their programmers now. I mean, the things that we can now. I mean, the things that we can now. I mean, the things that we can write with software now, right? you know write with software now, right? you know write with software now, right? you know are just creating such extraordinary are just creating such extraordinary are just creating such extraordinary innovation you know capacity you know innovation you know capacity you know innovation you know capacity you know right you know vibe coding and you know right you know vibe coding and you know right you know vibe coding and you know using these code generation tools it's using these code generation tools it's using these code generation tools it's just amazing the productivity that we're just amazing the productivity that we're just amazing the productivity that we're increasing but it wasn't 10x right you increasing but it wasn't 10x right you increasing but it wasn't 10x right you know right you know yes I decreased my know right you know yes I decreased my know right you know yes I decreased my workforce right you know a certain class workforce right you know a certain class workforce right you know a certain class of workers are no longer required of workers are no longer required of workers are no longer required they've become automated away but the they've become automated away but the they've become automated away but the people that are now using those people that are now using those people that are now using those automation tools have become so much automation tools have become so much automation tools have become so much more productive the amount of innovation

more productive the amount of innovation more productive the amount of innovation you know that they can deliver. You you know that they can deliver. You you know that they can deliver. You know, by the way, I think the workforce know, by the way, I think the workforce know, by the way, I think the workforce of Meta, you know, uh, and Microsoft and of Meta, you know, uh, and Microsoft and of Meta, you know, uh, and Microsoft and some of those companies that have, you some of those companies that have, you some of those companies that have, you know, taken some of those steps, it'll know, taken some of those steps, it'll know, taken some of those steps, it'll be that big 10 years from now, right? be that big 10 years from now, right? be that big 10 years from now, right? You know, they're going to increase that You know, they're going to increase that You know, they're going to increase that workforce because they're going to be workforce because they're going to be workforce because they're going to be producing so much more and enabling new producing so much more and enabling new producing so much more and enabling new economic cycles to occur uh over time. economic cycles to occur uh over time. economic cycles to occur uh over time. So So So when you think about putting on a when you think about putting on a when you think about putting on a different hat right now, you're you're a different hat right now, you're you're a different hat right now, you're you're a pastor of a local church and Silicon pastor of a local church and Silicon pastor of a local church and Silicon Valley here, Palo Alto, great example. Valley here, Palo Alto, great example. Valley here, Palo Alto, great example. This is probably going to see a lot of This is probably going to see a lot of This is probably going to see a lot of disruption, a lot of new jobs, a lot of disruption, a lot of new jobs, a lot of disruption, a lot of new jobs, a lot of old jobs going away. And you've got old jobs going away. And you've got old jobs going away. And you've got boomers who are passing away and their boomers who are passing away and their boomers who are passing away and their wealth uh we were talking about this the wealth uh we were talking about this the wealth uh we were talking about this the other night. You know the multi- other night. You know the multi- other night. You know the multi- trillion what is it $150 trillion wealth trillion what is it $150 trillion wealth trillion what is it $150 trillion wealth transfer or whatever is happening right transfer or whatever is happening right transfer or whatever is happening right now. So boomers are are disappearing as now. So boomers are are disappearing as now. So boomers are are disappearing as givers. You've got a whole class of 20 givers. You've got a whole class of 20 givers. You've got a whole class of 20 and 30ome Gen Z and soon Gen Alpha who and 30ome Gen Z and soon Gen Alpha who and 30ome Gen Z and soon Gen Alpha who are unemployed or unemployable because are unemployed or unemployable because are unemployed or unemployable because it's those entry- level jobs that are it's those entry- level jobs that are it's those entry- level jobs that are disappearing. Uh, but let's say we have disappearing. Uh, but let's say we have disappearing. Uh, but let's say we have a scenario potentially where a scenario potentially where a scenario potentially where unemployment goes to 10%. It doubles, unemployment goes to 10%. It doubles, unemployment goes to 10%. It doubles, more than doubles from what it is right more than doubles from what it is right more than doubles from what it is right now.

now. now. >> No evidence of that so far, by the way. >> No evidence of that so far, by the way. >> No evidence of that so far, by the way. >> No evidence of that so far, but I'm just >> No evidence of that so far, but I'm just >> No evidence of that so far, but I'm just playing out scenarios. playing out scenarios. playing out scenarios. >> Um, there's going to be a disruption to >> Um, there's going to be a disruption to >> Um, there's going to be a disruption to giving for the church. I also know how giving for the church. I also know how giving for the church. I also know how much of a heart you have for the church. much of a heart you have for the church. much of a heart you have for the church. I mean, you founded a nonprofit here in I mean, you founded a nonprofit here in I mean, you founded a nonprofit here in Silicon Valley, Transforming the Bay for Silicon Valley, Transforming the Bay for Silicon Valley, Transforming the Bay for Christ, spent a few days with them. I Christ, spent a few days with them. I Christ, spent a few days with them. I mean, your heart for the church is huge mean, your heart for the church is huge mean, your heart for the church is huge and and you put your money where your and and you put your money where your and and you put your money where your mouth is. You give to the cause of mouth is. You give to the cause of mouth is. You give to the cause of Christ, but I'm just thinking about Christ, but I'm just thinking about Christ, but I'm just thinking about congregational giving. And I was congregational giving. And I was congregational giving. And I was thinking about how hard it is even right thinking about how hard it is even right thinking about how hard it is even right now now now >> for pastors to raise the money for >> for pastors to raise the money for >> for pastors to raise the money for mission where you have a more meaningful mission where you have a more meaningful mission where you have a more meaningful unemployment rate potentially. You have unemployment rate potentially. You have unemployment rate potentially. You have a generation of people who are no longer a generation of people who are no longer a generation of people who are no longer giving because they're passing away. giving because they're passing away. giving because they're passing away. What do you do with congregational What do you do with congregational What do you do with congregational finance? Yeah. Well, and you know, I finance? Yeah. Well, and you know, I finance? Yeah. Well, and you know, I wish I had a magic formula that wish I had a magic formula that wish I had a magic formula that everybody could do associated with it, everybody could do associated with it, everybody could do associated with it, but you know, let's look at the facts but you know, let's look at the facts but you know, let's look at the facts first. Yeah. first. Yeah. first. Yeah. >> You know, the first thing is we've done >> You know, the first thing is we've done >> You know, the first thing is we've done a lousy job teaching people to be a lousy job teaching people to be a lousy job teaching people to be tithers, tithers, tithers, >> right? You know, at the first level, >> right? You know, at the first level, >> right? You know, at the first level, right? You know, we are the wealthiest right? You know, we are the wealthiest right? You know, we are the wealthiest nation on earth, right? You know, and nation on earth, right? You know, and nation on earth, right? You know, and we're less than 3% philanthropic, right?

we're less than 3% philanthropic, right? we're less than 3% philanthropic, right? You know, less than a third of a tithe, You know, less than a third of a tithe, You know, less than a third of a tithe, right? If we use that as a benchmark, right? If we use that as a benchmark, right? If we use that as a benchmark, right? And Christians are only like 3.1 right? And Christians are only like 3.1 right? And Christians are only like 3.1 3.2%. Slightly better than the national 3.2%. Slightly better than the national 3.2%. Slightly better than the national average. So the first thing is teach on average. So the first thing is teach on average. So the first thing is teach on tithing, teach on giving, teaching on tithing, teach on giving, teaching on tithing, teach on giving, teaching on radical philanthropy. You know, I'll radical philanthropy. You know, I'll radical philanthropy. You know, I'll just say I don't think pastors are doing just say I don't think pastors are doing just say I don't think pastors are doing their job today on this subject, right? their job today on this subject, right? their job today on this subject, right? You know, as well, you know, and I and I You know, as well, you know, and I and I You know, as well, you know, and I and I know that's, you know, right? You know, know that's, you know, right? You know, know that's, you know, right? You know, confrontive for your audience as well, confrontive for your audience as well, confrontive for your audience as well, but but but >> no, but a lot of us don't. It's the >> no, but a lot of us don't. It's the >> no, but a lot of us don't. It's the thing we want to talk about the least. thing we want to talk about the least. thing we want to talk about the least. >> Right. Right. And I'm not asking for >> Right. Right. And I'm not asking for >> Right. Right. And I'm not asking for your money. I'm asking you for as God your money. I'm asking you for as God your money. I'm asking you for as God did, you know, to have radical did, you know, to have radical did, you know, to have radical generosity because it brings you so much generosity because it brings you so much generosity because it brings you so much joy, fulfillment, eternal impact by joy, fulfillment, eternal impact by joy, fulfillment, eternal impact by joining him on the journeys that he joining him on the journeys that he joining him on the journeys that he would like to use every cattle on the would like to use every cattle on the would like to use every cattle on the hillside, you know, for, right? You hillside, you know, for, right? You hillside, you know, for, right? You know, and to me, you know, we just, you know, and to me, you know, we just, you know, and to me, you know, we just, you know, I'm not asking for money. Carrie, know, I'm not asking for money. Carrie, know, I'm not asking for money. Carrie, join me on this journey because it gives join me on this journey because it gives join me on this journey because it gives me so much joy and it honors the father me so much joy and it honors the father me so much joy and it honors the father so much. So, you know, first is, you so much. So, you know, first is, you so much. So, you know, first is, you know, do your jobs, right? you know, I know, do your jobs, right? you know, I know, do your jobs, right? you know, I mean, you have to be teaching people how mean, you have to be teaching people how mean, you have to be teaching people how to use, you know, the gifts that God has to use, you know, the gifts that God has to use, you know, the gifts that God has given them. And we're not doing a good given them. And we're not doing a good given them. And we're not doing a good job of that, you know, as measured by job of that, you know, as measured by job of that, you know, as measured by the statistics today, you know. Second, the statistics today, you know. Second, the statistics today, you know. Second, in that regard, clearly what an in that regard, clearly what an in that regard, clearly what an opportunity as a pastor. Let's prepare opportunity as a pastor. Let's prepare opportunity as a pastor. Let's prepare for this. Teach people how to use AI.

for this. Teach people how to use AI. for this. Teach people how to use AI. You know, your business leaders, I mean, You know, your business leaders, I mean, You know, your business leaders, I mean, you know, all the things that you should you know, all the things that you should you know, all the things that you should be doing to enable them to thrive in an be doing to enable them to thrive in an be doing to enable them to thrive in an AIdriven society, right? You know, and AIdriven society, right? You know, and AIdriven society, right? You know, and to me, you know, to say, you know, hey, to me, you know, to say, you know, hey, to me, you know, to say, you know, hey, we're going to have seminars on this at we're going to have seminars on this at we're going to have seminars on this at the church. We're going to bring in the the church. We're going to bring in the the church. We're going to bring in the experts. We're going to help in every experts. We're going to help in every experts. We're going to help in every way possible because we know there's way possible because we know there's way possible because we know there's going to be disruption, you know, and going to be disruption, you know, and going to be disruption, you know, and whether there's more jobs or less jobs whether there's more jobs or less jobs whether there's more jobs or less jobs on the other side of this may be on the other side of this may be on the other side of this may be debatable. It will be disruptive. debatable. It will be disruptive. debatable. It will be disruptive. >> It will be disruptive. Somebody's going >> It will be disruptive. Somebody's going >> It will be disruptive. Somebody's going to not have a job or to not have a job or to not have a job or >> how do we prepare to be the place that >> how do we prepare to be the place that >> how do we prepare to be the place that people just say, man, you know, when I people just say, man, you know, when I people just say, man, you know, when I went through that disruption, the church went through that disruption, the church went through that disruption, the church was there for me, right? You know, and I was there for me, right? You know, and I was there for me, right? You know, and I just say, okay, that is endearing, just say, okay, that is endearing, just say, okay, that is endearing, right? So, you know, prepare yourself right? So, you know, prepare yourself right? So, you know, prepare yourself and how you're using AI, but prepare and how you're using AI, but prepare and how you're using AI, but prepare your congregation for that disruption your congregation for that disruption your congregation for that disruption and that will endear their commitment, and that will endear their commitment, and that will endear their commitment, you know, to the community, to the you know, to the community, to the you know, to the community, to the church for the rest of their giving church for the rest of their giving church for the rest of their giving lives, right? Uh that they have, you lives, right? Uh that they have, you lives, right? Uh that they have, you know, and clearly there's going to be know, and clearly there's going to be know, and clearly there's going to be big winners and big losers in this, big winners and big losers in this, big winners and big losers in this, right? You know, right? And we may see, right? You know, right? And we may see, right? You know, right? And we may see, you know, the separation of wealth you know, the separation of wealth you know, the separation of wealth capacity more stark than we've ever capacity more stark than we've ever capacity more stark than we've ever seen, right, as a nation, right? And seen, right, as a nation, right? And seen, right, as a nation, right? And with that, you know, hey, that means you with that, you know, hey, that means you with that, you know, hey, that means you as pastors, you know, you have to think as pastors, you know, you have to think as pastors, you know, you have to think about your business leaders differently about your business leaders differently about your business leaders differently going forward.

going forward. going forward. >> Same. >> Same. >> Same. >> And you know, you know, generally, you >> And you know, you know, generally, you >> And you know, you know, generally, you know, if you can't identify your key know, if you can't identify your key know, if you can't identify your key business leaders and how you are business leaders and how you are business leaders and how you are ministering to them differently, okay, I ministering to them differently, okay, I ministering to them differently, okay, I don't think you're doing your job as a don't think you're doing your job as a don't think you're doing your job as a pastor because, you know, if you're pastor because, you know, if you're pastor because, you know, if you're asking your key business leaders, you asking your key business leaders, you asking your key business leaders, you know, to change diapers in the nursery, know, to change diapers in the nursery, know, to change diapers in the nursery, you're not leveraging their skills. So, you're not leveraging their skills. So, you're not leveraging their skills. So, let's let's play that scenario out. let's let's play that scenario out. let's let's play that scenario out. You're hitting on something that's very You're hitting on something that's very You're hitting on something that's very close to my heart. And a lot of pastors close to my heart. And a lot of pastors close to my heart. And a lot of pastors will push back and say, "We ought to will push back and say, "We ought to will push back and say, "We ought to treat everybody the same, Pat." But the treat everybody the same, Pat." But the treat everybody the same, Pat." But the reality, just to make the argument reality, just to make the argument reality, just to make the argument shorter, nobody treats everybody the shorter, nobody treats everybody the shorter, nobody treats everybody the same. You have a volunteer dinner. You same. You have a volunteer dinner. You same. You have a volunteer dinner. You have volunteer of the year theoretically have volunteer of the year theoretically have volunteer of the year theoretically because she gave 20 hours a week to some because she gave 20 hours a week to some because she gave 20 hours a week to some cause, right? And you don't treat your cause, right? And you don't treat your cause, right? And you don't treat your nonvolunteers the way you treat your nonvolunteers the way you treat your nonvolunteers the way you treat your volunteers. You don't treat your volunteers. You don't treat your volunteers. You don't treat your non-donors exactly the same as you treat non-donors exactly the same as you treat non-donors exactly the same as you treat your donors. But pastors are afraid of your donors. But pastors are afraid of your donors. But pastors are afraid of favoritism. But let's say you show up. I favoritism. But let's say you show up. I favoritism. But let's say you show up. I I've got a church. You show up at my I've got a church. You show up at my I've got a church. You show up at my church. What What am I doing with you, church. What What am I doing with you, church. What What am I doing with you, Pat? That's different. And And this Pat? That's different. And And this Pat? That's different. And And this isn't a hostile question. I just think isn't a hostile question. I just think isn't a hostile question. I just think you look at Jesus. He had a crowd of you look at Jesus. He had a crowd of you look at Jesus. He had a crowd of hundreds of disciples and then 70. And hundreds of disciples and then 70. And hundreds of disciples and then 70. And then he had 12. And then he had three.

then he had 12. And then he had three. then he had 12. And then he had three. And then he had the one. And he spent And then he had the one. And he spent And then he had the one. And he spent the most time with the 12 and then the the most time with the 12 and then the the most time with the 12 and then the three and then the one. So, this is this three and then the one. So, this is this three and then the one. So, this is this is a thoroughly biblical argument, but is a thoroughly biblical argument, but is a thoroughly biblical argument, but if I'm going to engage you and I think I if I'm going to engage you and I think I if I'm going to engage you and I think I know you well enough that you would know you well enough that you would know you well enough that you would change diapers or you would you would um change diapers or you would you would um change diapers or you would you would um you know be in the parking lot directing you know be in the parking lot directing you know be in the parking lot directing people and helping them find a spot, people and helping them find a spot, people and helping them find a spot, that's not the best use of your gifts. that's not the best use of your gifts. that's not the best use of your gifts. What do you want to happen when you show What do you want to happen when you show What do you want to happen when you show up at a church? Well, you know, clearly up at a church? Well, you know, clearly up at a church? Well, you know, clearly business leaders have networks. Yeah. business leaders have networks. Yeah. business leaders have networks. Yeah. They have capacity and they have skills. They have capacity and they have skills. They have capacity and they have skills. Okay. uh you know when you have the Okay. uh you know when you have the Okay. uh you know when you have the fundraiser to do who do you want running fundraiser to do who do you want running fundraiser to do who do you want running the fundraiser you want one of those the fundraiser you want one of those the fundraiser you want one of those business leaders running your fundraiser business leaders running your fundraiser business leaders running your fundraiser you know you have a capital campaign you know you have a capital campaign you know you have a capital campaign who's my most experienced business who's my most experienced business who's my most experienced business leader in the church that's who I want leader in the church that's who I want leader in the church that's who I want running the capital campaign right he running the capital campaign right he running the capital campaign right he has network I have a engagement that I has network I have a engagement that I has network I have a engagement that I want to get underway and I need to meet want to get underway and I need to meet want to get underway and I need to meet with the mayor with the mayor with the mayor who do I want next to me I want my who do I want next to me I want my who do I want next to me I want my business leaders next to me because they business leaders next to me because they business leaders next to me because they get access to the mayor that I may or get access to the mayor that I may or get access to the mayor that I may or may not.

may not. may not. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. You know, when I'm looking to >> Right. You know, when I'm looking to >> Right. You know, when I'm looking to partner to do a school program, who do I partner to do a school program, who do I partner to do a school program, who do I want with me? I want my business leaders want with me? I want my business leaders want with me? I want my business leaders with me. They have capacity. They have with me. They have capacity. They have with me. They have capacity. They have network. You know, they have skills. And network. You know, they have skills. And network. You know, they have skills. And and I would say in that, right, you and I would say in that, right, you and I would say in that, right, you know, it's like, you know, if you would know, it's like, you know, if you would know, it's like, you know, if you would ask my wife to go run the board meeting, ask my wife to go run the board meeting, ask my wife to go run the board meeting, you know, she's pretty uncomfortable. you know, she's pretty uncomfortable. you know, she's pretty uncomfortable. Ask her to go run the kids program, she Ask her to go run the kids program, she Ask her to go run the kids program, she is in her skilling. is in her skilling. is in her skilling. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. You know, and I just say think >> Right. You know, and I just say think >> Right. You know, and I just say think about it as using the skills, right, of about it as using the skills, right, of about it as using the skills, right, of the people that are in your flock to the people that are in your flock to the people that are in your flock to their fullest. And if you're not using their fullest. And if you're not using their fullest. And if you're not using their skills to the fullest, pretending their skills to the fullest, pretending their skills to the fullest, pretending that they're all equal sheep, Jesus that they're all equal sheep, Jesus that they're all equal sheep, Jesus didn't pretend they were all equal didn't pretend they were all equal didn't pretend they were all equal sheep, right? You know, at that level, sheep, right? You know, at that level, sheep, right? You know, at that level, some had certain skills, you know, some some had certain skills, you know, some some had certain skills, you know, some are, you know, uh, good in some domains. are, you know, uh, good in some domains. are, you know, uh, good in some domains. And I think your job as a pastor is to And I think your job as a pastor is to And I think your job as a pastor is to use the skilling of your flock to their use the skilling of your flock to their use the skilling of your flock to their fullest. fullest. fullest. >> Yeah. And you want to be tapped on the >> Yeah. And you want to be tapped on the >> Yeah. And you want to be tapped on the shoulder for those things. Is that shoulder for those things. Is that shoulder for those things. Is that right? right? right? >> Right. You know, and I want, you know, >> Right. You know, and I want, you know, >> Right. You know, and I want, you know, and I want pastors, you know, you know, and I want pastors, you know, you know, and I want pastors, you know, you know, my prayer for pastors is that they are my prayer for pastors is that they are my prayer for pastors is that they are the most influential person in their the most influential person in their the most influential person in their community, community, community, >> more influential than the mayor, more >> more influential than the mayor, more >> more influential than the mayor, more influential than the police leader, more influential than the police leader, more influential than the police leader, more influential than the principal of the influential than the principal of the influential than the principal of the school district or the superintendent.

school district or the superintendent. school district or the superintendent. You know, they're nothing gets done in You know, they're nothing gets done in You know, they're nothing gets done in their community without them at the their community without them at the their community without them at the table because they're influencing, table because they're influencing, table because they're influencing, right? You know, they have the network. right? You know, they have the network. right? You know, they have the network. you know, they have the passion, you you know, they have the passion, you you know, they have the passion, you know, they're established as this faith know, they're established as this faith know, they're established as this faith leader, right, of a congregation that leader, right, of a congregation that leader, right, of a congregation that wants to serve. Nothing gets done in wants to serve. Nothing gets done in wants to serve. Nothing gets done in their community without them at the their community without them at the their community without them at the table. That's my prayer for pastors. And table. That's my prayer for pastors. And table. That's my prayer for pastors. And if you don't use your business leaders if you don't use your business leaders if you don't use your business leaders to accomplish that, you've not brought to accomplish that, you've not brought to accomplish that, you've not brought your best tool to the table. You your best tool to the table. You your best tool to the table. You mentioned growing inequality. It's been mentioned growing inequality. It's been mentioned growing inequality. It's been a problem now for decades. The middle a problem now for decades. The middle a problem now for decades. The middle class hasn't fully disappeared, but it's class hasn't fully disappeared, but it's class hasn't fully disappeared, but it's definitely an endangered species. And a definitely an endangered species. And a definitely an endangered species. And a lot of the predictions from the lot of the predictions from the lot of the predictions from the optimists and the the doomers around AI optimists and the the doomers around AI optimists and the the doomers around AI is it's going to widen income is it's going to widen income is it's going to widen income inequality. In fact, 2026, I had to inequality. In fact, 2026, I had to inequality. In fact, 2026, I had to revise this in the book. I said, "One revise this in the book. I said, "One revise this in the book. I said, "One day they'll be the first soloreneur day they'll be the first soloreneur day they'll be the first soloreneur billionaire." Well, already happened. billionaire." Well, already happened. billionaire." Well, already happened. Um, guy and his brother out of New York Um, guy and his brother out of New York Um, guy and his brother out of New York have a company valued at $1.8 billion, have a company valued at $1.8 billion, have a company valued at $1.8 billion, which is insane. It's a bit of a sham of which is insane. It's a bit of a sham of which is insane. It's a bit of a sham of a company, but it's still worth$1.8 8 a company, but it's still worth$1.8 8 a company, but it's still worth$1.8 8 billion. You're going to see more and billion. You're going to see more and billion. You're going to see more and more of that. And as you said, the more of that. And as you said, the more of that. And as you said, the people who know how to use AI are people who know how to use AI are people who know how to use AI are probably going to get very wealthy or probably going to get very wealthy or probably going to get very wealthy or disproportionately wealthy to those who disproportionately wealthy to those who disproportionately wealthy to those who don't. So, you're sitting in a church.

don't. So, you're sitting in a church. don't. So, you're sitting in a church. You've now got some people who can't You've now got some people who can't You've now got some people who can't find a job who have all the education, find a job who have all the education, find a job who have all the education, all the training, and you've also got all the training, and you've also got all the training, and you've also got some entrepreneurs who are making some entrepreneurs who are making some entrepreneurs who are making millions, tens of millions, hundreds of millions, tens of millions, hundreds of millions, tens of millions, hundreds of millions or more. millions or more. millions or more. How do you tap into and and the phrase I How do you tap into and and the phrase I How do you tap into and and the phrase I use, we were back and forth on this when use, we were back and forth on this when use, we were back and forth on this when I was writing uh is patronage. If you I was writing uh is patronage. If you I was writing uh is patronage. If you look back over the history of the look back over the history of the look back over the history of the church, church, church, >> you see patrons have funded the arts, >> you see patrons have funded the arts, >> you see patrons have funded the arts, they funded churches, cathedrals, etc., they funded churches, cathedrals, etc., they funded churches, cathedrals, etc., etc. And we kind of got rid of that in etc. And we kind of got rid of that in etc. And we kind of got rid of that in the 20th century because we had a middle the 20th century because we had a middle the 20th century because we had a middle class and then we had another middle class and then we had another middle class and then we had another middle class. But now we're back into kind of class. But now we're back into kind of class. But now we're back into kind of where the culture has always been where where the culture has always been where where the culture has always been where throughout history economics have not throughout history economics have not throughout history economics have not been generally distributed. been generally distributed. been generally distributed. What do you think? You had some What do you think? You had some What do you think? You had some interesting thoughts and I want to tap interesting thoughts and I want to tap interesting thoughts and I want to tap into them about the capacity of people into them about the capacity of people into them about the capacity of people who have been especially blessed to who have been especially blessed to who have been especially blessed to give. Um how would you go about that? give. Um how would you go about that? give. Um how would you go about that? How would you tap them on the shoulder? How would you tap them on the shoulder? How would you tap them on the shoulder? Uh I think you said something like uh Uh I think you said something like uh Uh I think you said something like uh yeah they're blessed with a lot but they yeah they're blessed with a lot but they yeah they're blessed with a lot but they also don't like to give a lot unless you also don't like to give a lot unless you also don't like to give a lot unless you really challenge them. So talk about really challenge them. So talk about really challenge them. So talk about that tension.

that tension. that tension. >> Yeah. And you know clearly uh you know >> Yeah. And you know clearly uh you know >> Yeah. And you know clearly uh you know Linda and I talk a lot you know about Linda and I talk a lot you know about Linda and I talk a lot you know about this. We've spoken on this. Well you this. We've spoken on this. Well you this. We've spoken on this. Well you know and I challenge people to radical know and I challenge people to radical know and I challenge people to radical philanthropy. Right. I believe everybody philanthropy. Right. I believe everybody philanthropy. Right. I believe everybody at every social economic sector. Right. at every social economic sector. Right. at every social economic sector. Right. You know your job should be giving more You know your job should be giving more You know your job should be giving more of your gross income every year. of your gross income every year. of your gross income every year. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. You know whatever it was last >> Right. You know whatever it was last >> Right. You know whatever it was last year the percentage should go up. year the percentage should go up. year the percentage should go up. >> You unap unapologetically cast that >> You unap unapologetically cast that >> You unap unapologetically cast that vision. Yep. vision. Yep. vision. Yep. >> And live it out. I I talked to Linda >> And live it out. I I talked to Linda >> And live it out. I I talked to Linda about it. I mean you're living that out about it. I mean you're living that out about it. I mean you're living that out right now. right now. right now. >> Yeah. And you know everybody in your >> Yeah. And you know everybody in your >> Yeah. And you know everybody in your congregation you say I challenge you to congregation you say I challenge you to congregation you say I challenge you to radical philanthropy. Whatever radical philanthropy. Whatever radical philanthropy. Whatever percentage of giving of your gross percentage of giving of your gross percentage of giving of your gross income you're doing each year increase income you're doing each year increase income you're doing each year increase it next year and the year after that and it next year and the year after that and it next year and the year after that and the year after that and the year after the year after that and the year after the year after that and the year after that. And for some you know that's a 10% that. And for some you know that's a 10% that. And for some you know that's a 10% of a small number. of a small number. of a small number. >> Amen. >> Amen. >> Amen. >> Right. For some people it's 10% of a big >> Right. For some people it's 10% of a big >> Right. For some people it's 10% of a big number. number. number. >> Amen. >> Amen. >> Amen. >> You say gross income. Why gross? >> You say gross income. Why gross? >> You say gross income. Why gross? >> Uh because you know I mean all these >> Uh because you know I mean all these >> Uh because you know I mean all these thoughts on net income. Well do you want thoughts on net income. Well do you want thoughts on net income. Well do you want to be blessed on the net versus the to be blessed on the net versus the to be blessed on the net versus the gross and so on. And if you just say, gross and so on. And if you just say, gross and so on. And if you just say, "Hey, God is giving you this much each "Hey, God is giving you this much each "Hey, God is giving you this much each year. Give more of that away every year. Give more of that away every year. Give more of that away every year." You know, to me, that is sort of year." You know, to me, that is sort of year." You know, to me, that is sort of like it's challenging God to bless me like it's challenging God to bless me like it's challenging God to bless me more.

more. more. >> Right? Because I know I'm going to give >> Right? Because I know I'm going to give >> Right? Because I know I'm going to give more no matter what you give. Right? You more no matter what you give. Right? You more no matter what you give. Right? You know, and you know, the old John uh know, and you know, the old John uh know, and you know, the old John uh Wesley sermon, you know, make all you Wesley sermon, you know, make all you Wesley sermon, you know, make all you can to save all you can to give all you can to save all you can to give all you can to save all you can to give all you can, right? You know, we shouldn't be can, right? You know, we shouldn't be can, right? You know, we shouldn't be apologized, you know, for getting a fair apologized, you know, for getting a fair apologized, you know, for getting a fair return um and uh earning capacity, but return um and uh earning capacity, but return um and uh earning capacity, but you know, live below your means. save you know, live below your means. save you know, live below your means. save all you can. So fundamentally that you all you can. So fundamentally that you all you can. So fundamentally that you can give all you can and you know can give all you can and you know can give all you can and you know challenge people to radical philanthropy challenge people to radical philanthropy challenge people to radical philanthropy because you know the church should be because you know the church should be because you know the church should be the place you know that people are just the place you know that people are just the place you know that people are just challenged to the compassionate giving challenged to the compassionate giving challenged to the compassionate giving of God's gifts right you know in of God's gifts right you know in of God's gifts right you know in fundamental ways you know some of that fundamental ways you know some of that fundamental ways you know some of that of course is to the local church right I of course is to the local church right I of course is to the local church right I think there's a whole capacity sitting think there's a whole capacity sitting think there's a whole capacity sitting in the pews that nobody has challenged in the pews that nobody has challenged in the pews that nobody has challenged them hey if I put 20 bucks in the them hey if I put 20 bucks in the them hey if I put 20 bucks in the offering plate once a month we're good offering plate once a month we're good offering plate once a month we're good right we supported our local church no right we supported our local church no right we supported our local church no you're not good you haven't challenged you're not good you haven't challenged you're not good you haven't challenged them to philanthropy as God would want them to philanthropy as God would want them to philanthropy as God would want them to be challenged uh as well. And them to be challenged uh as well. And them to be challenged uh as well. And some of those you need to develop some of those you need to develop some of those you need to develop relationships with. relationships with. relationships with. >> So, I'd love for you to talk to the >> So, I'd love for you to talk to the >> So, I'd love for you to talk to the pastor. I mean, clearly this is in your pastor. I mean, clearly this is in your pastor. I mean, clearly this is in your genes. Like, generosity is in your genes. Like, generosity is in your genes. Like, generosity is in your genes. You're challenging other people.

genes. You're challenging other people. genes. You're challenging other people. But let's say there's somebody watching But let's say there's somebody watching But let's say there's somebody watching and they're like, "Okay, I have somebody and they're like, "Okay, I have somebody and they're like, "Okay, I have somebody who I know has to be a successful who I know has to be a successful who I know has to be a successful business person, entrepreneur in our business person, entrepreneur in our business person, entrepreneur in our church. They're throwing in 20 bucks." church. They're throwing in 20 bucks." church. They're throwing in 20 bucks." How do you start a conversation around How do you start a conversation around How do you start a conversation around that? that? that? >> Well, you don't start a conversation >> Well, you don't start a conversation >> Well, you don't start a conversation about that. You start a relationship about that. You start a relationship about that. You start a relationship with them. with them. with them. >> There you go. >> There you go. >> There you go. >> Right. You know, it always begins with a >> Right. You know, it always begins with a >> Right. You know, it always begins with a relationship. relationship. relationship. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know, and you know, from that, >> You know, and you know, from that, >> You know, and you know, from that, right? You know, you need to develop to right? You know, you need to develop to right? You know, you need to develop to the point that you have the the the point that you have the the the point that you have the the relationship to say, okay, how are you relationship to say, okay, how are you relationship to say, okay, how are you using the gifts that God has given you, using the gifts that God has given you, using the gifts that God has given you, >> right? You know, for his kingdom, you >> right? You know, for his kingdom, you >> right? You know, for his kingdom, you know, how are you teaching your children know, how are you teaching your children know, how are you teaching your children to be more generous? How are you to be more generous? How are you to be more generous? How are you thinking about generational wealth as thinking about generational wealth as thinking about generational wealth as well? One of the things Linda and I have well? One of the things Linda and I have well? One of the things Linda and I have started to do with our kids is we now, started to do with our kids is we now, started to do with our kids is we now, you know, have them involved in our you know, have them involved in our you know, have them involved in our charities. We've moved a number of our charities. We've moved a number of our charities. We've moved a number of our charities to our kids. You know, charities to our kids. You know, charities to our kids. You know, worrying about them becoming worrying about them becoming worrying about them becoming philanthropic and our grandchildren philanthropic and our grandchildren philanthropic and our grandchildren becoming philanthropic and generous. So, becoming philanthropic and generous. So, becoming philanthropic and generous. So, you know, you know, it is that, you you know, you know, it is that, you you know, you know, it is that, you know, uh I have a billionaire friend, know, uh I have a billionaire friend, know, uh I have a billionaire friend, right? you know, multi-billionaire, you right? you know, multi-billionaire, you right? you know, multi-billionaire, you know, very wealthy, super successful, know, very wealthy, super successful, know, very wealthy, super successful, you know, business leader, technologist, you know, business leader, technologist, you know, business leader, technologist, and uh investor, you know, just off the and uh investor, you know, just off the and uh investor, you know, just off the charts. And I challenged him to give to charts. And I challenged him to give to charts. And I challenged him to give to a philanthropy. He says, "I'm not going a philanthropy. He says, "I'm not going a philanthropy. He says, "I'm not going to worry about that. I'll let my kid to worry about that. I'll let my kid to worry about that. I'll let my kid take care of that." And I just yelled at take care of that." And I just yelled at take care of that." And I just yelled at him really, him really, him really, >> right? I said, "What a travesty, you >> right? I said, "What a travesty, you >> right? I said, "What a travesty, you know, that you are putting that burden know, that you are putting that burden know, that you are putting that burden on your children with no moral compass, on your children with no moral compass, on your children with no moral compass, none of your framing, none of your none of your framing, none of your none of your framing, none of your skills, right?" And you know, in this skills, right?" And you know, in this skills, right?" And you know, in this case, you know, his name's Andy, right?

case, you know, his name's Andy, right? case, you know, his name's Andy, right? You know, he says, "Andy, you must fix You know, he says, "Andy, you must fix You know, he says, "Andy, you must fix that. And I, as your friend, will not that. And I, as your friend, will not that. And I, as your friend, will not let you take that view of your wealth, let you take that view of your wealth, let you take that view of your wealth, right?" You know, and I was so in his right?" You know, and I was so in his right?" You know, and I was so in his face about this, he's almost afraid to face about this, he's almost afraid to face about this, he's almost afraid to talk to me about it. talk to me about it. talk to me about it. >> I was going to say, how did he respond? >> I was going to say, how did he respond? >> I was going to say, how did he respond? >> And, you know, hey, you know, we've had >> And, you know, hey, you know, we've had >> And, you know, hey, you know, we've had very, I'll say, meaningful conversations very, I'll say, meaningful conversations very, I'll say, meaningful conversations since that time, you know, on the since that time, you know, on the since that time, you know, on the subject of wealth and how you handle subject of wealth and how you handle subject of wealth and how you handle wealth. God wasn't afraid. Jesus wasn't wealth. God wasn't afraid. Jesus wasn't wealth. God wasn't afraid. Jesus wasn't afraid to talk about wealth. Neither afraid to talk about wealth. Neither afraid to talk about wealth. Neither should you be as pastors. And I I should you be as pastors. And I I should you be as pastors. And I I suppose because I did lead a church for suppose because I did lead a church for suppose because I did lead a church for 20 years, you know, I was always 20 years, you know, I was always 20 years, you know, I was always comfortable talking to business leaders. comfortable talking to business leaders. comfortable talking to business leaders. I don't know whether that was my I don't know whether that was my I don't know whether that was my background in law and challenging background in law and challenging background in law and challenging >> unique for you. I think many others >> unique for you. I think many others >> unique for you. I think many others aren't as comfortable. aren't as comfortable. aren't as comfortable. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> So I I'm not saying I'm not asking this >> So I I'm not saying I'm not asking this >> So I I'm not saying I'm not asking this Pat to to let pastors off the hook and Pat to to let pastors off the hook and Pat to to let pastors off the hook and say, "I want you to delegate this." No, say, "I want you to delegate this." No, say, "I want you to delegate this." No, you should be taking the Pat Gilzingers you should be taking the Pat Gilzingers you should be taking the Pat Gilzingers out for breakfast. And again, not on out for breakfast. And again, not on out for breakfast. And again, not on breakfast number one goes, "So what are breakfast number one goes, "So what are breakfast number one goes, "So what are you going to give?" That's a sure way to you going to give?" That's a sure way to you going to give?" That's a sure way to burn it down. You can smell that a mile burn it down. You can smell that a mile burn it down. You can smell that a mile away. But as part of your concern for away. But as part of your concern for away. But as part of your concern for you that I want the best for you and you that I want the best for you and you that I want the best for you and part of the best for you is to be fully part of the best for you is to be fully part of the best for you is to be fully obedient to the gospel and at some point obedient to the gospel and at some point obedient to the gospel and at some point that involves your money. That involves that involves your money. That involves that involves your money. That involves what God has interested you.

what God has interested you. what God has interested you. >> But it's also, you know, most business >> But it's also, you know, most business >> But it's also, you know, most business leaders as well. You know, how are you leaders as well. You know, how are you leaders as well. You know, how are you being a faithful leader to your being a faithful leader to your being a faithful leader to your employees? How are you being a faithful employees? How are you being a faithful employees? How are you being a faithful leader in your community? There's so leader in your community? There's so leader in your community? There's so many dimensions, you know, of business many dimensions, you know, of business many dimensions, you know, of business leadership, you know, and really helping leadership, you know, and really helping leadership, you know, and really helping business leaders become spiritual business leaders become spiritual business leaders become spiritual ambassadors to their communities, to ambassadors to their communities, to ambassadors to their communities, to their uh employees, you know, to all of their uh employees, you know, to all of their uh employees, you know, to all of the social uh activities that they're the social uh activities that they're the social uh activities that they're involved in, you know, and that's your involved in, you know, and that's your involved in, you know, and that's your job as a spiritual leader is making your job as a spiritual leader is making your job as a spiritual leader is making your business leaders spiritual ambassadors. business leaders spiritual ambassadors. business leaders spiritual ambassadors. >> But I guess I guess my question, Pat, is >> But I guess I guess my question, Pat, is >> But I guess I guess my question, Pat, is if you're in a church and you know, you if you're in a church and you know, you if you're in a church and you know, you did that to your friend Andy and a did that to your friend Andy and a did that to your friend Andy and a pastor came to you. I came to you and I pastor came to you. I came to you and I pastor came to you. I came to you and I said, "Pat, I know you got a heart for said, "Pat, I know you got a heart for said, "Pat, I know you got a heart for this. Um, would you be open to having a this. Um, would you be open to having a this. Um, would you be open to having a a a breakfast with John and just have a a breakfast with John and just have a a breakfast with John and just have breakfast with John and just ask him how breakfast with John and just ask him how breakfast with John and just ask him how he's doing? I'm building into John, but he's doing? I'm building into John, but he's doing? I'm building into John, but could you build in John, too?" What could you build in John, too?" What could you build in John, too?" What would your reaction to that be? would your reaction to that be? would your reaction to that be? >> Most likely, yes. >> Most likely, yes. >> Most likely, yes. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's >> Yeah. Yeah. That's >> Yeah. Yeah. That's >> And I think that's the untapped >> And I think that's the untapped >> And I think that's the untapped potential. potential. potential. >> This is where it goes. Anything else on >> This is where it goes. Anything else on >> This is where it goes. Anything else on economics in the church?

economics in the church? economics in the church? >> Well, you know, I do think that there, >> Well, you know, I do think that there, >> Well, you know, I do think that there, you know, there will likely be churches you know, there will likely be churches you know, there will likely be churches that get hit really hard by this. that get hit really hard by this. that get hit really hard by this. >> How so? Well, you know, hey, they're >> How so? Well, you know, hey, they're >> How so? Well, you know, hey, they're going to be, you know, you know, hidden going to be, you know, you know, hidden going to be, you know, you know, hidden communities, you know, you know, let's communities, you know, you know, let's communities, you know, you know, let's say customer service, right? You know, say customer service, right? You know, say customer service, right? You know, you know, I mean, they're going to be you know, I mean, they're going to be you know, I mean, they're going to be in, you know, communities that, bam, you in, you know, communities that, bam, you in, you know, communities that, bam, you know, get hit hard by this. know, get hit hard by this. know, get hit hard by this. >> And you sort of say that's not new, >> And you sort of say that's not new, >> And you sort of say that's not new, right? There have been churches that right? There have been churches that right? There have been churches that have to, you know, deal through m, you have to, you know, deal through m, you have to, you know, deal through m, you know, factory shutdowns and other, you know, factory shutdowns and other, you know, factory shutdowns and other, you know, that have associated with it, you know, that have associated with it, you know, that have associated with it, you know, but how do you be the source of know, but how do you be the source of know, but how do you be the source of compassion for your community? Cuz there compassion for your community? Cuz there compassion for your community? Cuz there will be some that go through dramatic will be some that go through dramatic will be some that go through dramatic dislocations economically. And I do dislocations economically. And I do dislocations economically. And I do think in that regard, you know, there think in that regard, you know, there think in that regard, you know, there there there is a coming crisis. And when there there is a coming crisis. And when there there is a coming crisis. And when do you prepare for a crisis? You know, do you prepare for a crisis? You know, do you prepare for a crisis? You know, not when it starts. not when it starts. not when it starts. >> Right. Right. What would you be doing on >> Right. Right. What would you be doing on >> Right. Right. What would you be doing on that? I kind of say if you're Joseph, that? I kind of say if you're Joseph, that? I kind of say if you're Joseph, like these are the seven good years, like these are the seven good years, like these are the seven good years, store some grain. Store some grain. store some grain. Store some grain. store some grain. Store some grain. Store some grain. What would you do? Store some grain. What would you do? Store some grain. What would you do? >> Well, you know, I I would just agree >> Well, you know, I I would just agree >> Well, you know, I I would just agree with that, right? You know, how much with that, right? You know, how much with that, right? You know, how much buffer do you have in your budget? If buffer do you have in your budget? If buffer do you have in your budget? If it's not 9 months, you're not doing your it's not 9 months, you're not doing your it's not 9 months, you're not doing your job, right? You know, create some job, right? You know, create some job, right? You know, create some capacity in your budgets now, right? You capacity in your budgets now, right? You capacity in your budgets now, right? You know, because you know, when it hits, know, because you know, when it hits, know, because you know, when it hits, you have no room for capacity, you have no room for capacity, you have no room for capacity, >> right? You know, as well. So, you know, >> right? You know, as well. So, you know, >> right? You know, as well. So, you know, start like Joseph storing up some grain.

start like Joseph storing up some grain. start like Joseph storing up some grain. Let's go build some freedom in our Let's go build some freedom in our Let's go build some freedom in our budget right now. Let's get all the budget right now. Let's get all the budget right now. Let's get all the things taken care of because we're not things taken care of because we're not things taken care of because we're not quite sure what tomorrow be. And I would quite sure what tomorrow be. And I would quite sure what tomorrow be. And I would argue that's good fiscal management argue that's good fiscal management argue that's good fiscal management anyway. anyway. anyway. >> Well, there's no downside, right? >> Well, there's no downside, right? >> Well, there's no downside, right? >> If it's not bad, great. You got extra. >> If it's not bad, great. You got extra. >> If it's not bad, great. You got extra. >> Yeah. So, you know, create some capacity >> Yeah. So, you know, create some capacity >> Yeah. So, you know, create some capacity now. now. now. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Start building your business networks >> Start building your business networks >> Start building your business networks now, right? So that hey, you know, team, now, right? So that hey, you know, team, now, right? So that hey, you know, team, you know, let's bring the business you know, let's bring the business you know, let's bring the business leaders of our community together, leaders of our community together, leaders of our community together, right? you know, we could see right? you know, we could see right? you know, we could see disruption. What are we doing as a disruption. What are we doing as a disruption. What are we doing as a community, you know, because not just community, you know, because not just community, you know, because not just your church budget, which is super your church budget, which is super your church budget, which is super important, but it's also your community important, but it's also your community important, but it's also your community budget. What are we doing in our budget. What are we doing in our budget. What are we doing in our community to prepare for, you know, this community to prepare for, you know, this community to prepare for, you know, this to occur? How are we going to be putting to occur? How are we going to be putting to occur? How are we going to be putting programs in place? And how do we the programs in place? And how do we the programs in place? And how do we the church show up as part of all politics church show up as part of all politics church show up as part of all politics is local. is local. is local. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You know, as well, you know, how, >> Yeah. You know, as well, you know, how, >> Yeah. You know, as well, you know, how, you know, and with your mayors, with you know, and with your mayors, with you know, and with your mayors, with your city leaders, you know, with the your city leaders, you know, with the your city leaders, you know, with the schools, how are we preparing for this schools, how are we preparing for this schools, how are we preparing for this coming disruption? coming disruption? coming disruption? So I want to talk a little bit about the So I want to talk a little bit about the So I want to talk a little bit about the theology of AI and some of the theology of AI and some of the theology of AI and some of the implications there. But before I go implications there. But before I go implications there. But before I go there, there, there, >> is there anything about artificial >> is there anything about artificial >> is there anything about artificial intelligence I haven't touched on that intelligence I haven't touched on that intelligence I haven't touched on that you think is imperative for church you think is imperative for church you think is imperative for church leaders to be paying attention to board leaders to be paying attention to board leaders to be paying attention to board members, pastors, staff?

members, pastors, staff? members, pastors, staff? >> Well, you know, I I'll just say, you >> Well, you know, I I'll just say, you >> Well, you know, I I'll just say, you know, at the end of the day, you know, know, at the end of the day, you know, know, at the end of the day, you know, is God surprised by AI? No. Right. He is God surprised by AI? No. Right. He is God surprised by AI? No. Right. He created all things, right? We discover created all things, right? We discover created all things, right? We discover things. things. things. AI is a discovery, right? You know, at AI is a discovery, right? You know, at AI is a discovery, right? You know, at this level doesn't surprise him one bit. this level doesn't surprise him one bit. this level doesn't surprise him one bit. He created us to be creators in his He created us to be creators in his He created us to be creators in his image, you know. And with that, you have image, you know. And with that, you have image, you know. And with that, you have to view it as, okay, this is part of his to view it as, okay, this is part of his to view it as, okay, this is part of his divine plan. Uh, as well, you know, how divine plan. Uh, as well, you know, how divine plan. Uh, as well, you know, how do I take and be part of that divine do I take and be part of that divine do I take and be part of that divine plan for this AI generation, you know, plan for this AI generation, you know, plan for this AI generation, you know, and AI is not human, and AI is not human, and AI is not human, >> right? It's not sensient, right? You >> right? It's not sensient, right? You >> right? It's not sensient, right? You know, it doesn't have a conscience, know, it doesn't have a conscience, know, it doesn't have a conscience, right? You know, inside of it. It's a right? You know, inside of it. It's a right? You know, inside of it. It's a tool at our disposal uh as well. We tool at our disposal uh as well. We tool at our disposal uh as well. We should be using it well you know but he should be using it well you know but he should be using it well you know but he also said you know that we should also said you know that we should also said you know that we should conquer the earth that we should you conquer the earth that we should you conquer the earth that we should you know manage creation that we should know manage creation that we should know manage creation that we should husband creation right you know through husband creation right you know through husband creation right you know through it as well. This is our creation to go it as well. This is our creation to go it as well. This is our creation to go manage and you know and uh control in manage and you know and uh control in manage and you know and uh control in that regard. And it's not human. It that regard. And it's not human. It that regard. And it's not human. It never will be human. It never will be never will be human. It never will be never will be human. It never will be the divine creation. It will never have the divine creation. It will never have the divine creation. It will never have a soul. Right? you know, it's yet the a soul. Right? you know, it's yet the a soul. Right? you know, it's yet the greatest tool that we've used out of the greatest tool that we've used out of the greatest tool that we've used out of the uh technology, you know, domain and uh uh technology, you know, domain and uh uh technology, you know, domain and uh we don't have to worry about it we don't have to worry about it we don't have to worry about it replacing God's creation souls.

replacing God's creation souls. replacing God's creation souls. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You know, but we do have to say how does >> You know, but we do have to say how does >> You know, but we do have to say how does it enhance God's creation and use it? it enhance God's creation and use it? it enhance God's creation and use it? And that's what every pastor I think And that's what every pastor I think And that's what every pastor I think needs to be saying. How does this become needs to be saying. How does this become needs to be saying. How does this become something I am in my church, in my something I am in my church, in my something I am in my church, in my community, and my people saying, "How do community, and my people saying, "How do community, and my people saying, "How do I enhance humanity, right, and bring me I enhance humanity, right, and bring me I enhance humanity, right, and bring me closer to God as a result of this tool?" closer to God as a result of this tool?" closer to God as a result of this tool?" Pat, you were involved with Glue from Pat, you were involved with Glue from Pat, you were involved with Glue from the very early stages. And Glue has the very early stages. And Glue has the very early stages. And Glue has evolved into a Christian AI company. I evolved into a Christian AI company. I evolved into a Christian AI company. I think we can say that. And think we can say that. And think we can say that. And [clears throat] you're spending half [clears throat] you're spending half [clears throat] you're spending half your time now with Glue in charge of all your time now with Glue in charge of all your time now with Glue in charge of all things AI. You bring all that experience things AI. You bring all that experience things AI. You bring all that experience from Intel, from VMware, and beyond, from Intel, from VMware, and beyond, from Intel, from VMware, and beyond, your whole life to this. Um, but you your whole life to this. Um, but you your whole life to this. Um, but you look at the size of an organization like look at the size of an organization like look at the size of an organization like Glue, as impressive as it is, what's the Glue, as impressive as it is, what's the Glue, as impressive as it is, what's the market cap? Half a billion dollars or market cap? Half a billion dollars or market cap? Half a billion dollars or thereabouts. thereabouts. thereabouts. But it's small compared to Anthropic. But it's small compared to Anthropic. But it's small compared to Anthropic. It's small compared to Open AI. What It's small compared to Open AI. What It's small compared to Open AI. What contribution do you think Christian AI contribution do you think Christian AI contribution do you think Christian AI companies like Glue can make to the companies like Glue can make to the companies like Glue can make to the moment we're in right now in shaping moment we're in right now in shaping moment we're in right now in shaping technology for good?

technology for good? technology for good? >> Yeah. And you [clears throat] know, >> Yeah. And you [clears throat] know, >> Yeah. And you [clears throat] know, well, one is we got to get Glue bigger, well, one is we got to get Glue bigger, well, one is we got to get Glue bigger, right? right? right? >> Yeah. Yeah. Grow that market. You know, >> Yeah. Yeah. Grow that market. You know, >> Yeah. Yeah. Grow that market. You know, we got to, you know, make it bigger, you we got to, you know, make it bigger, you we got to, you know, make it bigger, you know, and have more capacity to do know, and have more capacity to do know, and have more capacity to do things as well. And you know I often things as well. And you know I often things as well. And you know I often fear that the church right is so right fear that the church right is so right fear that the church right is so right that it is so wrong right you know what that it is so wrong right you know what that it is so wrong right you know what does that mean well you know I mean we does that mean well you know I mean we does that mean well you know I mean we take such narrow theological views that take such narrow theological views that take such narrow theological views that separate you know we agree on 97.2% of separate you know we agree on 97.2% of separate you know we agree on 97.2% of things but the 2.8% 8% that we disagree things but the 2.8% 8% that we disagree things but the 2.8% 8% that we disagree on means we can't work together. on means we can't work together. on means we can't work together. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. >> Right. You know, and to me it just >> Right. You know, and to me it just >> Right. You know, and to me it just drives me nuts. Right. You know, and so drives me nuts. Right. You know, and so drives me nuts. Right. You know, and so on. on. on. >> And glue is pulling the ES, you know, >> And glue is pulling the ES, you know, >> And glue is pulling the ES, you know, come together. Let's go partner so that come together. Let's go partner so that come together. Let's go partner so that we're big enough that we matter. we're big enough that we matter. we're big enough that we matter. Remember, over 70% of Americans take a Remember, over 70% of Americans take a Remember, over 70% of Americans take a Judeo-Christian view of values. Yeah. Judeo-Christian view of values. Yeah. Judeo-Christian view of values. Yeah. >> Right. And yet we show up as so many >> Right. And yet we show up as so many >> Right. And yet we show up as so many small fragmented communities, right? You small fragmented communities, right? You small fragmented communities, right? You know, that none of us matter. know, that none of us matter. know, that none of us matter. >> Yeah. You know, you know, we really got >> Yeah. You know, you know, we really got >> Yeah. You know, you know, we really got to come together and we hope that Glue to come together and we hope that Glue to come together and we hope that Glue is part of that unifying force to create is part of that unifying force to create is part of that unifying force to create technology at scale that we show up. technology at scale that we show up. technology at scale that we show up. >> And is that one of the reasons Glue went >> And is that one of the reasons Glue went >> And is that one of the reasons Glue went public?

public? public? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You know, get big, get visible, >> Yeah. You know, get big, get visible, >> Yeah. You know, get big, get visible, you know, have capacity, have scale. We you know, have capacity, have scale. We you know, have capacity, have scale. We also said being a public company, we're also said being a public company, we're also said being a public company, we're not eating from the same donor dollars not eating from the same donor dollars not eating from the same donor dollars that we're trying to serve. that we're trying to serve. that we're trying to serve. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. We're trying to unleash capital >> Right. We're trying to unleash capital >> Right. We're trying to unleash capital that's not available to donor dollars that's not available to donor dollars that's not available to donor dollars today so that we can better serve the today so that we can better serve the today so that we can better serve the donor and the faith communities as well. donor and the faith communities as well. donor and the faith communities as well. So, you know, changing I'll say the So, you know, changing I'll say the So, you know, changing I'll say the capitalization model we think is one of capitalization model we think is one of capitalization model we think is one of the benefits that we have uh as well. the benefits that we have uh as well. the benefits that we have uh as well. But one of the things that uh we're But one of the things that uh we're But one of the things that uh we're working on is things like benchmarks, working on is things like benchmarks, working on is things like benchmarks, right? And little benchmarks can have right? And little benchmarks can have right? And little benchmarks can have big impacts, right? you know, where you big impacts, right? you know, where you big impacts, right? you know, where you sort of say, I want all of the big sort of say, I want all of the big sort of say, I want all of the big models to say, how have I done on faith models to say, how have I done on faith models to say, how have I done on faith and flourishing, and flourishing, and flourishing, right? You know, and being able to say right? You know, and being able to say right? You know, and being able to say that, hey, maybe your school uh uh board that, hey, maybe your school uh uh board that, hey, maybe your school uh uh board is going to say, I'm only going to use is going to say, I'm only going to use is going to say, I'm only going to use models that do well on faith and models that do well on faith and models that do well on faith and flourishing. flourishing. flourishing. >> How do I measure faith and flourishing >> How do I measure faith and flourishing >> How do I measure faith and flourishing of AI models? Oh, we have benchmarks to of AI models? Oh, we have benchmarks to of AI models? Oh, we have benchmarks to do that, do that, do that, >> right? Which is the best? I'm going to >> right? Which is the best? I'm going to >> right? Which is the best? I'm going to make economic decisions based on the make economic decisions based on the make economic decisions based on the best available benchmarks on topics that best available benchmarks on topics that best available benchmarks on topics that I care about, right? It's not just I care about, right? It's not just I care about, right? It's not just performance or tokens per dollar, right?

performance or tokens per dollar, right? performance or tokens per dollar, right? It's values alignment, it's spiritual It's values alignment, it's spiritual It's values alignment, it's spiritual alignment. It's theological accuracy, alignment. It's theological accuracy, alignment. It's theological accuracy, scriptural accuracy. I care about those scriptural accuracy. I care about those scriptural accuracy. I care about those things. So, make your purchase decisions things. So, make your purchase decisions things. So, make your purchase decisions on those things and we're giving you on those things and we're giving you on those things and we're giving you tools to help measure that. So, how can tools to help measure that. So, how can tools to help measure that. So, how can we have outsized impact? You know, we have outsized impact? You know, we have outsized impact? You know, create tools that are used by the create tools that are used by the create tools that are used by the outsized organizations as well, outsized organizations as well, outsized organizations as well, >> right? Um, glue is getting into applied >> right? Um, glue is getting into applied >> right? Um, glue is getting into applied AI more and more. So, I'm thinking about AI more and more. So, I'm thinking about AI more and more. So, I'm thinking about because I'm m I'm imagining that that because I'm m I'm imagining that that because I'm m I'm imagining that that the the vast majority of people haven't the the vast majority of people haven't the the vast majority of people haven't used a glue product, used a glue product, used a glue product, >> but most of us have used planning center >> but most of us have used planning center >> but most of us have used planning center or most of us have some kind of database or most of us have some kind of database or most of us have some kind of database management y management y management y >> system that we use or, you know, our >> system that we use or, you know, our >> system that we use or, you know, our giving is enabled by push pay or by giving is enabled by push pay or by giving is enabled by push pay or by overflow or whoever it happens to be, overflow or whoever it happens to be, overflow or whoever it happens to be, tithely, etc., etc. there there are tithely, etc., etc. there there are tithely, etc., etc. there there are places that serve the church. What is places that serve the church. What is places that serve the church. What is get that going to look like for AI get that going to look like for AI get that going to look like for AI >> with Christian companies because >> with Christian companies because >> with Christian companies because anthropic and open AI kind of own the anthropic and open AI kind of own the anthropic and open AI kind of own the market. market. market. >> So you know what will happen is and when >> So you know what will happen is and when >> So you know what will happen is and when you think about an application any of you think about an application any of you think about an application any of those as well as you know whether it's those as well as you know whether it's those as well as you know whether it's workday or Salesforce or any of the workday or Salesforce or any of the workday or Salesforce or any of the other you know you know being used you other you know you know being used you other you know you know being used you have a data layer database right you have a data layer database right you have a data layer database right you have a logic layer and then you have a have a logic layer and then you have a have a logic layer and then you have a user interface layer right pretty much user interface layer right pretty much user interface layer right pretty much every app follows those three layers.

every app follows those three layers. every app follows those three layers. >> Yeah. So databases used to be SQL >> Yeah. So databases used to be SQL >> Yeah. So databases used to be SQL databases. In the future they become you databases. In the future they become you databases. In the future they become you know what's called vector databases that know what's called vector databases that know what's called vector databases that are better for AI. So you end up with a are better for AI. So you end up with a are better for AI. So you end up with a common data store right and things like common data store right and things like common data store right and things like snowflake or aiming right to become snowflake or aiming right to become snowflake or aiming right to become those data stores. And that's our that's those data stores. And that's our that's those data stores. And that's our that's Glue's I'll say data store of choice for Glue's I'll say data store of choice for Glue's I'll say data store of choice for most of the work that we do but Google most of the work that we do but Google most of the work that we do but Google has some etc. So you have a new data has some etc. So you have a new data has some etc. So you have a new data store. Most of that business logic store. Most of that business logic store. Most of that business logic becomes agents and those agents can be becomes agents and those agents can be becomes agents and those agents can be highly customized to your applications. highly customized to your applications. highly customized to your applications. And that's why you've seen some news And that's why you've seen some news And that's why you've seen some news about like the SAS apocalypse. about like the SAS apocalypse. about like the SAS apocalypse. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Right. Because all of that business >> Right. Because all of that business >> Right. Because all of that business logic is getting replaced by agents. logic is getting replaced by agents. logic is getting replaced by agents. >> And those agents aren't a whole bunch of >> And those agents aren't a whole bunch of >> And those agents aren't a whole bunch of things that Salesforce created for me. things that Salesforce created for me. things that Salesforce created for me. They're the agents that I need for my They're the agents that I need for my They're the agents that I need for my business functions, right? And they business functions, right? And they business functions, right? And they operate across all the tooling that I operate across all the tooling that I operate across all the tooling that I would have would have would have >> because you know is that in planful or >> because you know is that in planful or >> because you know is that in planful or you know was that in you know coming you know was that in you know coming you know was that in you know coming through push pay I don't quite you know through push pay I don't quite you know through push pay I don't quite you know my agents know I don't need to my agents know I don't need to my agents know I don't need to >> and the user interface becomes a chat >> and the user interface becomes a chat >> and the user interface becomes a chat >> interface in the future. So I'm now no >> interface in the future. So I'm now no >> interface in the future. So I'm now no longer confining myself to a specific longer confining myself to a specific longer confining myself to a specific user interface that's tied to a specific user interface that's tied to a specific user interface that's tied to a specific you know business logic that's accessing you know business logic that's accessing you know business logic that's accessing my data right I'm now using a chat my data right I'm now using a chat my data right I'm now using a chat interface that figures out the business interface that figures out the business interface that figures out the business logic through agent that is acting that logic through agent that is acting that logic through agent that is acting that is accessing a generalized data store so is accessing a generalized data store so is accessing a generalized data store so that's will be the total upending of all that's will be the total upending of all that's will be the total upending of all software in the future right so all of software in the future right so all of software in the future right so all of it will get changed that way it will get changed that way it will get changed that way >> so within what 3 years 5 years we're not

>> so within what 3 years 5 years we're not >> so within what 3 years 5 years we're not using all of the software that we're using all of the software that we're using all of the software that we're using right now using right now using right now >> what the software will be hidden behind >> what the software will be hidden behind >> what the software will be hidden behind a chat interface that will have agents a chat interface that will have agents a chat interface that will have agents increasingly utilizing it and in some increasingly utilizing it and in some increasingly utilizing it and in some cases we'll just replace it. You know cases we'll just replace it. You know cases we'll just replace it. You know we've had customers now for glue that we we've had customers now for glue that we we've had customers now for glue that we just started replacing some of their just started replacing some of their just started replacing some of their tools because we can now satisfy it by tools because we can now satisfy it by tools because we can now satisfy it by chat and agents. chat and agents. chat and agents. >> Well and you can build your own tool. >> Well and you can build your own tool. >> Well and you can build your own tool. >> Yeah. Right. You know and you can you >> Yeah. Right. You know and you can you >> Yeah. Right. You know and you can you know cuz I can create this customized know cuz I can create this customized know cuz I can create this customized thing. So you as a pastor will come and thing. So you as a pastor will come and thing. So you as a pastor will come and we'll you know ask your interface saying we'll you know ask your interface saying we'll you know ask your interface saying how many people were here on Sunday. how many people were here on Sunday. how many people were here on Sunday. You'll get an answer. Now, was that in You'll get an answer. Now, was that in You'll get an answer. Now, was that in my planful database or where do I keep my planful database or where do I keep my planful database or where do I keep you know you won't even know in the you know you won't even know in the you know you won't even know in the future where it is because you will just future where it is because you will just future where it is because you will just ask the question into your chat-like ask the question into your chat-like ask the question into your chat-like interface interface interface >> kind of like we do with chat GBT now and >> kind of like we do with chat GBT now and >> kind of like we do with chat GBT now and say get me a recipe with chicken and say get me a recipe with chicken and say get me a recipe with chicken and peaches right peaches right peaches right >> you know how did this Sunday compare to >> you know how did this Sunday compare to >> you know how did this Sunday compare to the last month of Sundays compared to the last month of Sundays compared to the last month of Sundays compared to last year's Sundays and give me a graph last year's Sundays and give me a graph last year's Sundays and give me a graph of that over the last five years boom of that over the last five years boom of that over the last five years boom it's done it's done it's done >> all the data is just stored >> all the data is just stored >> all the data is just stored >> right you and how are this week's giving >> right you and how are this week's giving >> right you and how are this week's giving compared to whatever um and you know for compared to whatever um and you know for compared to whatever um and you know for next Sunday you know uh sermon right you next Sunday you know uh sermon right you next Sunday you know uh sermon right you know make sure to get me that know make sure to get me that know make sure to get me that information and somewhere in my sermon I information and somewhere in my sermon I information and somewhere in my sermon I just want to update on how our you know just want to update on how our you know just want to update on how our you know attendance scores are doing right as attendance scores are doing right as attendance scores are doing right as part of it you know and all of these part of it you know and all of these part of it you know and all of these things will now be done through an things will now be done through an things will now be done through an agentic interface that has a chatlike uh agentic interface that has a chatlike uh agentic interface that has a chatlike uh and all of the tools that sit underneath and all of the tools that sit underneath and all of the tools that sit underneath it essentially will disappear and you it essentially will disappear and you it essentially will disappear and you know it's not that they've gone way, but

know it's not that they've gone way, but know it's not that they've gone way, but you no longer interact with them like you no longer interact with them like you no longer interact with them like tools. tools. tools. >> Kind of like your car. You just get in, >> Kind of like your car. You just get in, >> Kind of like your car. You just get in, you press the button, it goes. you press the button, it goes. you press the button, it goes. >> Yeah. Well, in the future, you want to >> Yeah. Well, in the future, you want to >> Yeah. Well, in the future, you want to press the button, you'll get in and press the button, you'll get in and press the button, you'll get in and you'll say, "Go to Car's house and off you'll say, "Go to Car's house and off you'll say, "Go to Car's house and off we go." we go." we go." >> Yeah. Whimo just took off on you. >> Yeah. Whimo just took off on you. >> Yeah. Whimo just took off on you. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's and that's the magic >> Yeah. Yeah. That's and that's the magic >> Yeah. Yeah. That's and that's the magic of this next phase. And you know, this of this next phase. And you know, this of this next phase. And you know, this agentic age means that we're applying AI agentic age means that we're applying AI agentic age means that we're applying AI to your business. to your business. to your business. >> Glue and other companies are building >> Glue and other companies are building >> Glue and other companies are building that. that. that. >> Yeah. And you know part of what is >> Yeah. And you know part of what is >> Yeah. And you know part of what is unique about glue is we are doing that unique about glue is we are doing that unique about glue is we are doing that specifically for the faith and specifically for the faith and specifically for the faith and flourishing ecosystem. That's our target flourishing ecosystem. That's our target flourishing ecosystem. That's our target market. You know we're of the faith and market. You know we're of the faith and market. You know we're of the faith and flourishing community. You know we're flourishing community. You know we're flourishing community. You know we're you know that's who we are and as such you know that's who we are and as such you know that's who we are and as such you can trust that the things that we do you can trust that the things that we do you can trust that the things that we do with AI are going to be aligned with with AI are going to be aligned with with AI are going to be aligned with your values. your values. your values. >> So bit of a a hard turn here as we wrap >> So bit of a a hard turn here as we wrap >> So bit of a a hard turn here as we wrap up Pat. Uh, one of the most uh, alarming up Pat. Uh, one of the most uh, alarming up Pat. Uh, one of the most uh, alarming apps I've seen in the last 12 months is, apps I've seen in the last 12 months is, apps I've seen in the last 12 months is, and there's many, many of them now, but and there's many, many of them now, but and there's many, many of them now, but if I have three minute, you have three if I have three minute, you have three if I have three minute, you have three minutes of video of me and I die, have a minutes of video of me and I die, have a minutes of video of me and I die, have a heart attack, heart attack, heart attack, >> you can now regenerate me, >> you can now regenerate me, >> you can now regenerate me, >> this is Solomon, the witch of Endor, and >> this is Solomon, the witch of Endor, and >> this is Solomon, the witch of Endor, and I can talk to you about anything. So, I can talk to you about anything. So, I can talk to you about anything. So, you can almost have like a FaceTime you can almost have like a FaceTime you can almost have like a FaceTime >> with a deceased person if you have three >> with a deceased person if you have three >> with a deceased person if you have three minutes of video. And those apps, this minutes of video. And those apps, this minutes of video. And those apps, this is not the future. This is today.

is not the future. This is today. is not the future. This is today. Um, I imagine if it doesn't exist, by Um, I imagine if it doesn't exist, by Um, I imagine if it doesn't exist, by the time this episode releases, it will the time this episode releases, it will the time this episode releases, it will exist soon. God forbid, let's say, of a exist soon. God forbid, let's say, of a exist soon. God forbid, let's say, of a toddler who dies and you have some video toddler who dies and you have some video toddler who dies and you have some video of that toddler. You can now age that of that toddler. You can now age that of that toddler. You can now age that toddler digitally, you know, going to toddler digitally, you know, going to toddler digitally, you know, going to preschool and graduating from elementary preschool and graduating from elementary preschool and graduating from elementary and into high school. And, you know, and into high school. And, you know, and into high school. And, you know, it's all those things. Death and it's all those things. Death and it's all those things. Death and resurrection is so central to human life resurrection is so central to human life resurrection is so central to human life and so central to the gospel. I mean, and so central to the gospel. I mean, and so central to the gospel. I mean, this is what it is about. this is what it is about. this is what it is about. And I wonder what that's going to do to And I wonder what that's going to do to And I wonder what that's going to do to human psychology. So, we're moving into human psychology. So, we're moving into human psychology. So, we're moving into all of these spheres. And that's a very all of these spheres. And that's a very all of these spheres. And that's a very small example of so many examples of small example of so many examples of small example of so many examples of where the technology is going to start where the technology is going to start where the technology is going to start to directly impact to directly impact to directly impact uh our theology. And [clears throat] not uh our theology. And [clears throat] not uh our theology. And [clears throat] not that it changes that Jesus died and rose that it changes that Jesus died and rose that it changes that Jesus died and rose from the dead, but just people are like, from the dead, but just people are like, from the dead, but just people are like, "Oh yeah, we didn't have a funeral "Oh yeah, we didn't have a funeral "Oh yeah, we didn't have a funeral because she's not really dead. He's not because she's not really dead. He's not because she's not really dead. He's not really dead." When you think about that, really dead." When you think about that, really dead." When you think about that, what are the dangers and what are the what are the dangers and what are the what are the dangers and what are the opportunities?

opportunities? opportunities? >> Yeah. Well, and [clears throat] >> Yeah. Well, and [clears throat] >> Yeah. Well, and [clears throat] you before I answer the question, you before I answer the question, you before I answer the question, Carrie, you know, one of the things that Carrie, you know, one of the things that Carrie, you know, one of the things that I just, you know, I get so excited about I just, you know, I get so excited about I just, you know, I get so excited about some of the things that we're going to some of the things that we're going to some of the things that we're going to be able to do with AI, be able to do with AI, be able to do with AI, right? You know, in it because I think right? You know, in it because I think right? You know, in it because I think on some of those scenarios, you start to on some of those scenarios, you start to on some of those scenarios, you start to say, "Wow, maybe I can't use AI." And I say, "Wow, maybe I can't use AI." And I say, "Wow, maybe I can't use AI." And I want everybody who hears this podcast, want everybody who hears this podcast, want everybody who hears this podcast, embrace it, use it, find ways to make it embrace it, use it, find ways to make it embrace it, use it, find ways to make it great. And you know like one of the great. And you know like one of the great. And you know like one of the initiatives we have at glue is around initiatives we have at glue is around initiatives we have at glue is around language right you know that we're going language right you know that we're going language right you know that we're going to uh enable the translation of every to uh enable the translation of every to uh enable the translation of every language you know imagine that every language you know imagine that every language you know imagine that every human on earth can hear the Bible you human on earth can hear the Bible you human on earth can hear the Bible you know being read in their local dialects know being read in their local dialects know being read in their local dialects from a socially relevant person of a from a socially relevant person of a from a socially relevant person of a voice of their choosing right uh with voice of their choosing right uh with voice of their choosing right uh with the translation of their choosing in the translation of their choosing in the translation of their choosing in every one of the 7,000 languages and the every one of the 7,000 languages and the every one of the 7,000 languages and the 20,000 dialects on earth. What what 20,000 dialects on earth. What what 20,000 dialects on earth. What what could be more Christlike than that, could be more Christlike than that, could be more Christlike than that, right? And we're going to take that right? And we're going to take that right? And we're going to take that technology and enable every child living technology and enable every child living technology and enable every child living in poverty today to receive a proper in poverty today to receive a proper in poverty today to receive a proper education, education, education, >> customized tutorials, >> customized tutorials, >> customized tutorials, >> right? You know, with agents that are >> right? You know, with agents that are >> right? You know, with agents that are being able to essentially learn their being able to essentially learn their being able to essentially learn their learning modalities to increase teacher learning modalities to increase teacher learning modalities to increase teacher productivity and you know, the the productivity and you know, the the productivity and you know, the the number one thing to eliminate extreme number one thing to eliminate extreme number one thing to eliminate extreme poverty, education. What could be more poverty, education. What could be more poverty, education. What could be more cra you know just every one of these and cra you know just every one of these and cra you know just every one of these and imagine that my hearing aids right are imagine that my hearing aids right are imagine that my hearing aids right are connected to my glasses in the future connected to my glasses in the future connected to my glasses in the future and as I'm aging I'm now getting prompts and as I'm aging I'm now getting prompts and as I'm aging I'm now getting prompts to keep my neurological understanding

to keep my neurological understanding to keep my neurological understanding you know that's my daughter right you you know that's my daughter right you you know that's my daughter right you know you know you last saw her here know you know you last saw her here know you know you last saw her here right you know social disengagement right you know social disengagement right you know social disengagement accelerates the decline of neurological accelerates the decline of neurological accelerates the decline of neurological diseases right so if I keep you socially diseases right so if I keep you socially diseases right so if I keep you socially engaged by modest prompts and so on you engaged by modest prompts and so on you engaged by modest prompts and so on you know I you know there's very solid know I you know there's very solid know I you know there's very solid evidence you know that I increase evidence you know that I increase evidence you know that I increase quality of life and aging, right? Okay. quality of life and aging, right? Okay. quality of life and aging, right? Okay. You know, what could be more Christlike, You know, what could be more Christlike, You know, what could be more Christlike, right? Than improving quality of life, right? Than improving quality of life, right? Than improving quality of life, you know, solving diseases, eliminating you know, solving diseases, eliminating you know, solving diseases, eliminating cancers and so on, you know? So, I think cancers and so on, you know? So, I think cancers and so on, you know? So, I think there's just like these extraordinary there's just like these extraordinary there's just like these extraordinary positive things that just say this is positive things that just say this is positive things that just say this is going to be the greatest time of going to be the greatest time of going to be the greatest time of humanity for technology improving the humanity for technology improving the humanity for technology improving the quality of life and the ability of the quality of life and the ability of the quality of life and the ability of the gospel to impact every human on earth. gospel to impact every human on earth. gospel to impact every human on earth. You know, that's what I'm excited about. You know, that's what I'm excited about. You know, that's what I'm excited about. >> Yeah. But on the other side of it, there >> Yeah. But on the other side of it, there >> Yeah. But on the other side of it, there of course is technolog is neutral of course is technolog is neutral of course is technolog is neutral >> and there's bad, right? And people will >> and there's bad, right? And people will >> and there's bad, right? And people will say, you know, okay, Aunt Mary didn't say, you know, okay, Aunt Mary didn't say, you know, okay, Aunt Mary didn't die. Oh, you know, we the church have to die. Oh, you know, we the church have to die. Oh, you know, we the church have to stand up and say, no, we we're happy to stand up and say, no, we we're happy to stand up and say, no, we we're happy to show you, you know, the hologrammed show you, you know, the hologrammed show you, you know, the hologrammed experience of, you know, uh, Mary's experience of, you know, uh, Mary's experience of, you know, uh, Mary's notebook LM, you know, that's given her notebook LM, you know, that's given her notebook LM, you know, that's given her recitations, right? You know, and she'll recitations, right? You know, and she'll recitations, right? You know, and she'll be able to sing at her funeral or, you be able to sing at her funeral or, you be able to sing at her funeral or, you know, you know, all of those kind of know, you know, all of those kind of know, you know, all of those kind of things. But we the church got to say, things. But we the church got to say, things. But we the church got to say, no, Mary died. you know this is a no, Mary died. you know this is a no, Mary died. you know this is a digital embodiment right of Mary right digital embodiment right of Mary right digital embodiment right of Mary right and we think this is a appropriate way and we think this is a appropriate way and we think this is a appropriate way to honor her to honor her to honor her and we believe that Mary right you know and we believe that Mary right you know and we believe that Mary right you know does have an eternal home with Christ does have an eternal home with Christ does have an eternal home with Christ but I think you know that's where the but I think you know that's where the but I think you know that's where the theology of the church must s shine

theology of the church must s shine theology of the church must s shine through the technology of the church through the technology of the church through the technology of the church >> so if somebody wants to contribute um >> so if somebody wants to contribute um >> so if somebody wants to contribute um they can contact local politicians I they can contact local politicians I they can contact local politicians I love that idea I mean we had a lot of love that idea I mean we had a lot of love that idea I mean we had a lot of ideas um any other way for our voices to ideas um any other way for our voices to ideas um any other way for our voices to be heard and our contributions to be be heard and our contributions to be be heard and our contributions to be made because this is a call for made because this is a call for made because this is a call for ethicists, philosophers, theologians, ethicists, philosophers, theologians, ethicists, philosophers, theologians, technologists, software engineers to technologists, software engineers to technologists, software engineers to shape the future for good and for shape the future for good and for shape the future for good and for Christ. Well, you know, certainly, you Christ. Well, you know, certainly, you Christ. Well, you know, certainly, you know, Christians, you know, you have, know, Christians, you know, you have, know, Christians, you know, you have, you know, the places where where do we you know, the places where where do we you know, the places where where do we go as Christians? Schools, hospitals, go as Christians? Schools, hospitals, go as Christians? Schools, hospitals, right? You know, you know, the business right? You know, you know, the business right? You know, you know, the business leaders, you know, locally. To me, these leaders, you know, locally. To me, these leaders, you know, locally. To me, these are just places. Let our voices be are just places. Let our voices be are just places. Let our voices be heard, you know, in meaningful ways. heard, you know, in meaningful ways. heard, you know, in meaningful ways. obviously with the political leaders obviously with the political leaders obviously with the political leaders locally, right? You know, okay, show up locally, right? You know, okay, show up locally, right? You know, okay, show up with the mayor. How are we using AI and with the mayor. How are we using AI and with the mayor. How are we using AI and how are we making sure the AI in our how are we making sure the AI in our how are we making sure the AI in our community is good, right? You know, as community is good, right? You know, as community is good, right? You know, as well, you know, so I think across that well, you know, so I think across that well, you know, so I think across that in the, you know, uh pastors rise up to in the, you know, uh pastors rise up to in the, you know, uh pastors rise up to say, oh, you know, I'm going to be the say, oh, you know, I'm going to be the say, oh, you know, I'm going to be the most AI charged church in my community, most AI charged church in my community, most AI charged church in my community, right? I'm going to be using it well in right? I'm going to be using it well in right? I'm going to be using it well in my congregation. I'm going to be my congregation. I'm going to be my congregation. I'm going to be training my people well. I'm going to be training my people well. I'm going to be training my people well. I'm going to be preparing for the implications of it. my preparing for the implications of it. my preparing for the implications of it. my voice is going to be heard in it, you voice is going to be heard in it, you voice is going to be heard in it, you know, and the church is like Martin know, and the church is like Martin know, and the church is like Martin Luther, right, in his day saying, Luther, right, in his day saying, Luther, right, in his day saying, "That's right." You know, we just wanted "That's right." You know, we just wanted "That's right." You know, we just wanted to make sure the truth was heard, right, to make sure the truth was heard, right, to make sure the truth was heard, right, with the greatest technological with the greatest technological with the greatest technological invention of our day. Then it was the invention of our day. Then it was the invention of our day. Then it was the printing press. Today, it's AI.

printing press. Today, it's AI. printing press. Today, it's AI. >> Yeah. Pat, can't thank you enough. If >> Yeah. Pat, can't thank you enough. If >> Yeah. Pat, can't thank you enough. If people want to follow you along, is people want to follow you along, is people want to follow you along, is there a good place to do that or a there a good place to do that or a there a good place to do that or a website? website? website? >> I'm active on LinkedIn. Uh you can >> I'm active on LinkedIn. Uh you can >> I'm active on LinkedIn. Uh you can follow my channel there. I'm active uh follow my channel there. I'm active uh follow my channel there. I'm active uh on uh X so you can follow me there. I on uh X so you can follow me there. I on uh X so you can follow me there. I post quite regularly on those uh post quite regularly on those uh post quite regularly on those uh channels. So uh you know and you know channels. So uh you know and you know channels. So uh you know and you know some of it on faith uh some of it on some of it on faith uh some of it on some of it on faith uh some of it on evolution of technology but a lot of it evolution of technology but a lot of it evolution of technology but a lot of it on the intersection of the two. on the intersection of the two. on the intersection of the two. >> That's great Pat. Thank you so much. So >> That's great Pat. Thank you so much. So >> That's great Pat. Thank you so much. So much to discuss and I just love the back much to discuss and I just love the back much to discuss and I just love the back and forth. I mean the reality is you and forth. I mean the reality is you and forth. I mean the reality is you don't know what the future is going to don't know what the future is going to don't know what the future is going to bring. It could be super optimistic and bring. It could be super optimistic and bring. It could be super optimistic and all the optimistic scenarios come all the optimistic scenarios come all the optimistic scenarios come through. It could be a doomsday scenario through. It could be a doomsday scenario through. It could be a doomsday scenario or probably it's going to be something or probably it's going to be something or probably it's going to be something in between and it's all subject to the in between and it's all subject to the in between and it's all subject to the sovereignty of God. We've got show notes sovereignty of God. We've got show notes sovereignty of God. We've got show notes for you. You can find them in the art of for you. You can find them in the art of for you. You can find them in the art of leadership academy. You can just go to leadership academy. You can just go to leadership academy. You can just go to the art of leadershipacademy.com. the art of leadershipacademy.com. the art of leadershipacademy.com. You can join over 21,000 leaders who You can join over 21,000 leaders who You can join over 21,000 leaders who have gathered there. We have some robust have gathered there. We have some robust have gathered there. We have some robust discussions and we need to be talking discussions and we need to be talking discussions and we need to be talking more about artificial intelligence. So, more about artificial intelligence. So, more about artificial intelligence. So, our AI series continues next episode. To our AI series continues next episode. To our AI series continues next episode. To make sure that you don't miss a single make sure that you don't miss a single make sure that you don't miss a single beat, hit follow or subscribe. And if beat, hit follow or subscribe. And if beat, hit follow or subscribe. And if this conversation was helpful, um, you this conversation was helpful, um, you this conversation was helpful, um, you might want to share it with your team.

might want to share it with your team. might want to share it with your team. You can do that by just sharing the link You can do that by just sharing the link You can do that by just sharing the link with somebody, shoot them a text, drop with somebody, shoot them a text, drop with somebody, shoot them a text, drop it in an email, uh, and let a friend or it in an email, uh, and let a friend or it in an email, uh, and let a friend or a team member know. And if you would be a team member know. And if you would be a team member know. And if you would be so kind, leave a rating and review so kind, leave a rating and review so kind, leave a rating and review wherever you're watching or listening to wherever you're watching or listening to wherever you're watching or listening to this podcast. So, thank you so much for this podcast. So, thank you so much for this podcast. So, thank you so much for tuning in. I'm going to be all over the tuning in. I'm going to be all over the tuning in. I'm going to be all over the place this fall, back in Silicon Valley place this fall, back in Silicon Valley place this fall, back in Silicon Valley as well. I think we're doing a one day as well. I think we're doing a one day as well. I think we're doing a one day in San Jose uh and on a book tour in San Jose uh and on a book tour in San Jose uh and on a book tour talking about AI and the future church. talking about AI and the future church. talking about AI and the future church. So, if you want more information on that So, if you want more information on that So, if you want more information on that and all things, go to a future.urch. and all things, go to a future.urch. and all things, go to a future.urch. You can get the book. You can well You can get the book. You can well You can get the book. You can well pre-order it or order it depending on pre-order it or order it depending on pre-order it or order it depending on where you're listening to this. And then where you're listening to this. And then where you're listening to this. And then we'll also drop details about where I'm we'll also drop details about where I'm we'll also drop details about where I'm going to be this fall because I'd love going to be this fall because I'd love going to be this fall because I'd love to have a conversation with you. There to have a conversation with you. There to have a conversation with you. There is so much to talk about and episodes is so much to talk about and episodes is so much to talk about and episodes like this don't quite capture it all. like this don't quite capture it all. like this don't quite capture it all. It's a really complex topic. It's a It's a really complex topic. It's a It's a really complex topic. It's a brand new era and I'm so glad that we're brand new era and I'm so glad that we're brand new era and I'm so glad that we're tracking on it together. So, I hope our tracking on it together. So, I hope our tracking on it together. So, I hope our conversation today has helped you conversation today has helped you conversation today has helped you identify and break a growth barrier that identify and break a growth barrier that identify and break a growth barrier that you're facing.