How Does A Well Organized Office Boost Your Leadership Abilities?

There is a stat that says the average There is a stat that says the average person will waste an entire year of person will waste an entire year of person will waste an entire year of their life or more looking for lost or their life or more looking for lost or their life or more looking for lost or misplaced items. Welcome to the Carrie misplaced items. Welcome to the Carrie misplaced items. Welcome to the Carrie Newhoff Leadership Podcast on YouTube. Newhoff Leadership Podcast on YouTube. Newhoff Leadership Podcast on YouTube. Today, Andrew Melon and we're going to Today, Andrew Melon and we're going to Today, Andrew Melon and we're going to talk about a radical approach to talk about a radical approach to talk about a radical approach to personal organization and office personal organization and office personal organization and office communication. If you are wondering what communication. If you are wondering what communication. If you are wondering what the relationship is between your the relationship is between your the relationship is between your physical environment and your physical environment and your physical environment and your leadership, well, I think you're going leadership, well, I think you're going leadership, well, I think you're going to love this. And yeah, my OCD shows to love this. And yeah, my OCD shows to love this. And yeah, my OCD shows through, but I can vouch for this stuff. through, but I can vouch for this stuff. through, but I can vouch for this stuff. It actually works. Okay, like, It actually works. Okay, like, It actually works. Okay, like, subscribe, leave a comment to join the subscribe, leave a comment to join the subscribe, leave a comment to join the conversation. And we're doing something conversation. And we're doing something conversation. And we're doing something really special. We're going to give away really special. We're going to give away really special. We're going to give away a copy of Andrew Melon's book, Unstuff a copy of Andrew Melon's book, Unstuff a copy of Andrew Melon's book, Unstuff Your Life, to five lucky winners. So, to Your Life, to five lucky winners. So, to Your Life, to five lucky winners. So, to enter the giveaway, just leave a comment enter the giveaway, just leave a comment enter the giveaway, just leave a comment below saying, "I need to clear my below saying, "I need to clear my below saying, "I need to clear my space." Okay? When you listen to this, space." Okay? When you listen to this, space." Okay? When you listen to this, if you feel like you need to clean your if you feel like you need to clean your if you feel like you need to clean your space like I did, uh, you'll want to get space like I did, uh, you'll want to get space like I did, uh, you'll want to get this. And I've used the system that this. And I've used the system that this. And I've used the system that Andrew and I are going to talk about. It Andrew and I are going to talk about. It Andrew and I are going to talk about. It really works. And I just cleaned up my really works. And I just cleaned up my really works. And I just cleaned up my office. like totally got a minimalist office. like totally got a minimalist office. like totally got a minimalist desk again and I feel so much better. desk again and I feel so much better. desk again and I feel so much better. So, we're going to jump into that in So, we're going to jump into that in So, we're going to jump into that in just a minute, but now a word from just a minute, but now a word from just a minute, but now a word from today's partners and then we'll dive today's partners and then we'll dive today's partners and then we'll dive into the conversation. This episode is into the conversation. This episode is into the conversation. This episode is brought to you by the Church Network.

brought to you by the Church Network. brought to you by the Church Network. Hey, if you're feeling overwhelmed in Hey, if you're feeling overwhelmed in Hey, if you're feeling overwhelmed in church operations, you are not alone. church operations, you are not alone. church operations, you are not alone. For over 70 years, the Church Network For over 70 years, the Church Network For over 70 years, the Church Network has been a trusted resource for leaders has been a trusted resource for leaders has been a trusted resource for leaders navigating the complexities of church navigating the complexities of church navigating the complexities of church administration. This summer, don't just administration. This summer, don't just administration. This summer, don't just survive, learn to thrive. Join the survive, learn to thrive. Join the survive, learn to thrive. Join the Church Network July 15th through 18th in Church Network July 15th through 18th in Church Network July 15th through 18th in Omaha, Nebraska for their annual Omaha, Nebraska for their annual Omaha, Nebraska for their annual conference. It's packed with more than conference. It's packed with more than conference. It's packed with more than 50 practical breakout sessions and 50 practical breakout sessions and 50 practical breakout sessions and extensive trade show and insights from extensive trade show and insights from extensive trade show and insights from leaders like Pastor Zack Zender, Brad leaders like Pastor Zack Zender, Brad leaders like Pastor Zack Zender, Brad Hill, Erica Cole, and Tim Hodgeges. So, Hill, Erica Cole, and Tim Hodgeges. So, Hill, Erica Cole, and Tim Hodgeges. So, here's the truth. You weren't meant to here's the truth. You weren't meant to here's the truth. You weren't meant to go it alone. Build real connection, grow go it alone. Build real connection, grow go it alone. Build real connection, grow your expertise, and find the support you your expertise, and find the support you your expertise, and find the support you need to lead with confidence. Learn more need to lead with confidence. Learn more need to lead with confidence. Learn more and register today at the and register today at the and register today at the churchnetwork.com/conference. Today's churchnetwork.com/conference. Today's churchnetwork.com/conference. Today's episode is brought to you by Subsplash. episode is brought to you by Subsplash. episode is brought to you by Subsplash. You know, while social media platforms You know, while social media platforms You know, while social media platforms like Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube like Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube like Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube provide your church with a broad provide your church with a broad provide your church with a broad audience reach, they're not designed to audience reach, they're not designed to audience reach, they're not designed to actually foster the deep ongoing actually foster the deep ongoing actually foster the deep ongoing engagement that connection requires. And engagement that connection requires. And engagement that connection requires. And the other thing is these are rented the other thing is these are rented the other thing is these are rented spaces. They're fueled by big tech spaces. They're fueled by big tech spaces. They're fueled by big tech algorithms, which you have no control algorithms, which you have no control algorithms, which you have no control over. and they've got one goal in mind over. and they've got one goal in mind over. and they've got one goal in mind to keep users scrolling constantly to keep users scrolling constantly to keep users scrolling constantly serving new unfiltered content serving new unfiltered content serving new unfiltered content accompanied by paid advertisements. So accompanied by paid advertisements. So accompanied by paid advertisements. So the problem is that's one of the reasons the problem is that's one of the reasons the problem is that's one of the reasons Subsplash exists. All right, that is the Subsplash exists. All right, that is the Subsplash exists. All right, that is the problem they're trying to solve to give problem they're trying to solve to give problem they're trying to solve to give your church its own digital space to

your church its own digital space to your church its own digital space to share your content with your community share your content with your community share your content with your community without distraction, without ads, and without distraction, without ads, and without distraction, without ads, and without questionable content. So, you without questionable content. So, you without questionable content. So, you can join more than 20,000 churches and can join more than 20,000 churches and can join more than 20,000 churches and ministries that partner with Subsplash ministries that partner with Subsplash ministries that partner with Subsplash to own their digital space that to own their digital space that to own their digital space that cultivates belonging, deepens cultivates belonging, deepens cultivates belonging, deepens relationships, and naturally paves the relationships, and naturally paves the relationships, and naturally paves the way for disciplehip. So, go to subsplash.com/carry, and you can subsplash.com/carry, and you can schedule a quick, no obligation demo. schedule a quick, no obligation demo. schedule a quick, no obligation demo. You'll save $500 when you sign up. You'll save $500 when you sign up. You'll save $500 when you sign up. Andrew, welcome back. Oh, I'm delighted Andrew, welcome back. Oh, I'm delighted Andrew, welcome back. Oh, I'm delighted to be here. It's been a couple years. We to be here. It's been a couple years. We to be here. It's been a couple years. We had you back on in 2017. I went back had you back on in 2017. I went back had you back on in 2017. I went back into the archives. So, some of our into the archives. So, some of our into the archives. So, some of our listeners will remember this listeners will remember this listeners will remember this conversation and we picked up a whole conversation and we picked up a whole conversation and we picked up a whole bunch bunch of new listeners since then. bunch bunch of new listeners since then. bunch bunch of new listeners since then. And the world seems a lot more chaotic And the world seems a lot more chaotic And the world seems a lot more chaotic now than it did back in the golden days now than it did back in the golden days now than it did back in the golden days of 2017. of 2017. of 2017. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So So So um I wanted to start here and this is um I wanted to start here and this is um I wanted to start here and this is sort of philosophical but we're going to sort of philosophical but we're going to sort of philosophical but we're going to talk a lot about organization because I talk a lot about organization because I talk a lot about organization because I believe organization is key to sanity believe organization is key to sanity believe organization is key to sanity and sanity is something that is very and sanity is something that is very and sanity is something that is very difficult to preserve in leadership. So difficult to preserve in leadership. So difficult to preserve in leadership. So what is the relationship in your view to what is the relationship in your view to what is the relationship in your view to outer chaos and feeling chaotic on the outer chaos and feeling chaotic on the outer chaos and feeling chaotic on the inside? And we can talk about my office inside? And we can talk about my office inside? And we can talk about my office being a disaster to the world being a being a disaster to the world being a being a disaster to the world being a disaster. take it wherever you want, but disaster. take it wherever you want, but disaster. take it wherever you want, but the relationship between outer chaos and the relationship between outer chaos and the relationship between outer chaos and inner peace or the lack thereof. Sure.

inner peace or the lack thereof. Sure. inner peace or the lack thereof. Sure. Um Um Um I don't think it's a chicken or egg I don't think it's a chicken or egg I don't think it's a chicken or egg thing. Uh and I think that thing. Uh and I think that thing. Uh and I think that your external world, if there's chaos your external world, if there's chaos your external world, if there's chaos there, is likely to create there, is likely to create there, is likely to create disturbation. Yeah. And if and if you're disturbation. Yeah. And if and if you're disturbation. Yeah. And if and if you're quiet quiet quiet uh and reflective, when you're quiet and uh and reflective, when you're quiet and uh and reflective, when you're quiet and reflective, the outer chaos reflective, the outer chaos reflective, the outer chaos um will perhaps have less um will perhaps have less um will perhaps have less impact doesn't mean that it's not there. impact doesn't mean that it's not there. impact doesn't mean that it's not there. Uh, I think your ability to address it Uh, I think your ability to address it Uh, I think your ability to address it and work your way through it, if we and work your way through it, if we and work your way through it, if we start from the inside out, is always, if start from the inside out, is always, if start from the inside out, is always, if not always, almost always going to be a not always, almost always going to be a not always, almost always going to be a better choice. So, if you can quiet better choice. So, if you can quiet better choice. So, if you can quiet yourself down, the the external noise yourself down, the the external noise yourself down, the the external noise will be easier to address. Um, and if will be easier to address. Um, and if will be easier to address. Um, and if you're agitated, external stimulation is you're agitated, external stimulation is you're agitated, external stimulation is only going to make you more agitated. I only going to make you more agitated. I only going to make you more agitated. I I so I think the the I so I think the the I so I think the the the calmer we can get you the calmer we can get you the calmer we can get you inside, the easier it will be to address inside, the easier it will be to address inside, the easier it will be to address the chaos outside and also the chaos outside and also the chaos outside and also um the easier it will be to be less um the easier it will be to be less um the easier it will be to be less impacted by external chaos. Yeah. I mean impacted by external chaos. Yeah. I mean impacted by external chaos. Yeah. I mean the chaos is not going to go away and the chaos is not going to go away and the chaos is not going to go away and and if the the es and flows of chaos in and if the the es and flows of chaos in and if the the es and flows of chaos in the the the world the you know the Daly Lama talks world the you know the Daly Lama talks world the you know the Daly Lama talks about this all the time we don't have

about this all the time we don't have about this all the time we don't have the perspective to be able to see the the perspective to be able to see the the perspective to be able to see the biggest picture of how things move. So biggest picture of how things move. So biggest picture of how things move. So in the moment it feels critical and it in the moment it feels critical and it in the moment it feels critical and it might in fact be critical and if we can might in fact be critical and if we can might in fact be critical and if we can zoom out a h 100red years, a thousand zoom out a h 100red years, a thousand zoom out a h 100red years, a thousand years it might seem like a hiccup but it years it might seem like a hiccup but it years it might seem like a hiccup but it feels totally acute and intense. And so feels totally acute and intense. And so feels totally acute and intense. And so I often rely on I often rely on I often rely on that to to that to to that to to provide like a perspective provide like a perspective provide like a perspective hack because because when my face is hack because because when my face is hack because because when my face is pressed up against the glass, it feels pressed up against the glass, it feels pressed up against the glass, it feels intense all the time. So how do how do I intense all the time. So how do how do I intense all the time. So how do how do I get that 30,000 or 36,000 foot view? get that 30,000 or 36,000 foot view? get that 30,000 or 36,000 foot view? Breathe, Breathe, Breathe, reflect, pray, and um uh quiet down. And reflect, pray, and um uh quiet down. And reflect, pray, and um uh quiet down. And then it just becomes a day. it becomes then it just becomes a day. it becomes then it just becomes a day. it becomes another day. I find it a lot easier to another day. I find it a lot easier to another day. I find it a lot easier to feel inner peace when my outer world is feel inner peace when my outer world is feel inner peace when my outer world is organized. If no doubt I'm in chaos, organized. If no doubt I'm in chaos, organized. If no doubt I'm in chaos, that's probably a personality thing, but that's probably a personality thing, but that's probably a personality thing, but if there's chaos, I am I am not cool if there's chaos, I am I am not cool if there's chaos, I am I am not cool with it. Someone else's chaos, okay, I with it. Someone else's chaos, okay, I with it. Someone else's chaos, okay, I can deal with that. But if it's my can deal with that. But if it's my can deal with that. But if it's my chaos, uh I often have to clean up chaos, uh I often have to clean up chaos, uh I often have to clean up beforehand uh before I can really sit beforehand uh before I can really sit beforehand uh before I can really sit down and and be still. Um, if you had to down and and be still. Um, if you had to down and and be still. Um, if you had to identify one organizational habit, and identify one organizational habit, and identify one organizational habit, and this is what we're going to talk about.

this is what we're going to talk about. this is what we're going to talk about. We're going to be like very practical, We're going to be like very practical, We're going to be like very practical, very tactile. How do you organize your very tactile. How do you organize your very tactile. How do you organize your stuff, right? Unstuff your life. If stuff, right? Unstuff your life. If stuff, right? Unstuff your life. If there was one organizational habit that there was one organizational habit that there was one organizational habit that predicts a leader's effectiveness, what predicts a leader's effectiveness, what predicts a leader's effectiveness, what would you say that would you say that would you say that is? I was thinking about this. is? I was thinking about this. is? I was thinking about this. Uh when I think about effective Uh when I think about effective Uh when I think about effective leadership, it's less about um uh leadership, it's less about um uh leadership, it's less about um uh physical clutter and it's more about physical clutter and it's more about physical clutter and it's more about mental clutter and I think mental clutter and I think mental clutter and I think communication. It's really hard to communication. It's really hard to communication. It's really hard to follow somebody who's muddled. Yes. And follow somebody who's muddled. Yes. And follow somebody who's muddled. Yes. And has not great communication. often I has not great communication. often I has not great communication. often I think and I and I work with people all think and I and I work with people all think and I and I work with people all the time on the time on the time on this. We're thinking all the this. We're thinking all the this. We're thinking all the things. A third of it comes out of our things. A third of it comes out of our things. A third of it comes out of our mouth. A quarter of it comes out of our mouth. A quarter of it comes out of our mouth. A quarter of it comes out of our mouth. We think we're speaking in mouth. We think we're speaking in mouth. We think we're speaking in complete sentences, but we're speaking complete sentences, but we're speaking complete sentences, but we're speaking in fragments. We think that there's in fragments. We think that there's in fragments. We think that there's context for what we're saying, but context for what we're saying, but context for what we're saying, but people have no idea because we have it people have no idea because we have it people have no idea because we have it all up here and it's not coming out. And all up here and it's not coming out. And all up here and it's not coming out. And I think that that creates confusion in I think that that creates confusion in I think that that creates confusion in people that we're trying to lead people that we're trying to lead people that we're trying to lead probably more than anything else.

probably more than anything else. probably more than anything else. Precision, conciseness, Precision, conciseness, Precision, conciseness, uh, uh, not being cold and abrupt, but uh, uh, not being cold and abrupt, but uh, uh, not being cold and abrupt, but also pay attention to everything that's also pay attention to everything that's also pay attention to everything that's behind a butt or because, chances are it behind a butt or because, chances are it behind a butt or because, chances are it doesn't need to be there. For the person doesn't need to be there. For the person doesn't need to be there. For the person who's like, why does this even matter? who's like, why does this even matter? who's like, why does this even matter? Why does this even matter? I mean, tell Why does this even matter? I mean, tell Why does this even matter? I mean, tell me tell me why I would want to do this. me tell me why I would want to do this. me tell me why I would want to do this. What are the benefits that you see for What are the benefits that you see for What are the benefits that you see for your clients, for your readers, for your your clients, for your readers, for your your clients, for your readers, for your audience when they do this? What audience when they do this? What audience when they do this? What happens? Cuz what I'm interested in is happens? Cuz what I'm interested in is happens? Cuz what I'm interested in is clarity for leaders at work and clarity for leaders at work and clarity for leaders at work and simplicity for leaders at home. I think simplicity for leaders at home. I think simplicity for leaders at home. I think if you have that, you're going to lead if you have that, you're going to lead if you have that, you're going to lead better. Sure. So, there is a stat that better. Sure. So, there is a stat that better. Sure. So, there is a stat that says the average person will waste an says the average person will waste an says the average person will waste an entire year of their life or more entire year of their life or more entire year of their life or more looking for lost or misplaced items. looking for lost or misplaced items. looking for lost or misplaced items. Wow. So if if you could have a year of Wow. So if if you could have a year of Wow. So if if you could have a year of your life, if you could live for a year your life, if you could live for a year your life, if you could live for a year longer, is that enough time to make it longer, is that enough time to make it longer, is that enough time to make it worth your while?

worth your while? worth your while? Right. It Right. It Right. It seems if if you've ever said there seems if if you've ever said there seems if if you've ever said there aren't enough hours in the day, Yeah. to aren't enough hours in the day, Yeah. to aren't enough hours in the day, Yeah. to get everything done and you could get everything done and you could get everything done and you could recapture 5, 10, 15 minutes a day every recapture 5, 10, 15 minutes a day every recapture 5, 10, 15 minutes a day every day for the remainder of your time on day for the remainder of your time on day for the remainder of your time on the planet. Would that be an ROI that the planet. Would that be an ROI that the planet. Would that be an ROI that was worth uh employing two simple was worth uh employing two simple was worth uh employing two simple principles to to know where everything principles to to know where everything principles to to know where everything is at a at a moment's glance? You know, is at a at a moment's glance? You know, is at a at a moment's glance? You know, in a momentary need that you could find in a momentary need that you could find in a momentary need that you could find whatever you were looking for and you whatever you were looking for and you whatever you were looking for and you never had to because let's be clear, never had to because let's be clear, never had to because let's be clear, there's the math of the time, then there's the math of the time, then there's the math of the time, then there's the affect of the time. there's the affect of the time. there's the affect of the time. agitation, irritation, anxiety, uh agitation, irritation, anxiety, uh agitation, irritation, anxiety, uh overwhelm, stress, those factors are overwhelm, stress, those factors are overwhelm, stress, those factors are beyond the simple math of the year that beyond the simple math of the year that beyond the simple math of the year that you're going to lose of your you're going to lose of your you're going to lose of your life. Now, you're also going to diminish life. Now, you're also going to diminish life. Now, you're also going to diminish the quality of your life in on top of it the quality of your life in on top of it the quality of your life in on top of it based on the stress to your adrenal based on the stress to your adrenal based on the stress to your adrenal system and everything else when you system and everything else when you system and everything else when you can't find what you need when you need can't find what you need when you need can't find what you need when you need it. So, it would seem on my side of the it. So, it would seem on my side of the it. So, it would seem on my side of the fence, it seems like a no-brainer that fence, it seems like a no-brainer that fence, it seems like a no-brainer that the ROI is the ROI is the ROI is self-evident. Hopefully, that translates self-evident. Hopefully, that translates self-evident. Hopefully, that translates and and people can see the value of and and people can see the value of and and people can see the value of knowing where things are. And going back knowing where things are. And going back knowing where things are. And going back to that what I had just said earlier to that what I had just said earlier to that what I had just said earlier about the bandwidth, why take up any of about the bandwidth, why take up any of about the bandwidth, why take up any of your bandwidth having to remember where your bandwidth having to remember where your bandwidth having to remember where things are if you just place them in

things are if you just place them in things are if you just place them in their home and it's a logical home and their home and it's a logical home and their home and it's a logical home and everybody knows where that home is. You everybody knows where that home is. You everybody knows where that home is. You don't really have to think about it don't really have to think about it don't really have to think about it again. We redid our kitchen about a year again. We redid our kitchen about a year again. We redid our kitchen about a year after I had that interview. Well, most after I had that interview. Well, most after I had that interview. Well, most of our house actually. We had a big of our house actually. We had a big of our house actually. We had a big renovation and prior to that I kept my renovation and prior to that I kept my renovation and prior to that I kept my wallets and keys of in one of two or wallets and keys of in one of two or wallets and keys of in one of two or three places. It was either in the three places. It was either in the three places. It was either in the kitchen, it was upstairs in my bedroom, kitchen, it was upstairs in my bedroom, kitchen, it was upstairs in my bedroom, or it was in the coat I was wearing last or it was in the coat I was wearing last or it was in the coat I was wearing last night. And the amount of time that I night. And the amount of time that I night. And the amount of time that I would spend up and down the stairs, back would spend up and down the stairs, back would spend up and down the stairs, back and forth. Have you seen my keys? Did and forth. Have you seen my keys? Did and forth. Have you seen my keys? Did one of the kids take my keys? Where are one of the kids take my keys? Where are one of the kids take my keys? Where are my keys? They're always in the same my keys? They're always in the same my keys? They're always in the same place. And probably five times a year. place. And probably five times a year. place. And probably five times a year. Yeah, we're ringing the bell. Five times Yeah, we're ringing the bell. Five times Yeah, we're ringing the bell. Five times a year, Andrew. I think I might skip a year, Andrew. I think I might skip a year, Andrew. I think I might skip that and then I got to go digging and that and then I got to go digging and that and then I got to go digging and usually it's 2 minutes. But the amount usually it's 2 minutes. But the amount usually it's 2 minutes. But the amount of daily mental clutter and frustration of daily mental clutter and frustration of daily mental clutter and frustration because that can set you off. If you because that can set you off. If you because that can set you off. If you didn't have a good sleep the night didn't have a good sleep the night didn't have a good sleep the night before, that can like now the morning's before, that can like now the morning's before, that can like now the morning's ruined, right? So, I'm with that. The ruined, right? So, I'm with that. The ruined, right? So, I'm with that. The other the other thing that really helped other the other thing that really helped other the other thing that really helped was I'm I'm pretty fascinated by the was I'm I'm pretty fascinated by the was I'm I'm pretty fascinated by the whole self- storage movement that's whole self- storage movement that's whole self- storage movement that's going on right now. Do you want to I going on right now. Do you want to I going on right now. Do you want to I don't know. I didn't ask you about this, don't know. I didn't ask you about this, don't know. I didn't ask you about this, but do you have stats on self- storage but do you have stats on self- storage but do you have stats on self- storage units? Like I should have. Somebody told units? Like I should have. Somebody told units? Like I should have. Somebody told me 20 years ago I should have invested me 20 years ago I should have invested me 20 years ago I should have invested in it. And they were right. I'd be a in it. And they were right. I'd be a in it. And they were right. I'd be a gazillionaire today. But it blows me gazillionaire today. But it blows me gazillionaire today. But it blows me away that we now rent extra space for away that we now rent extra space for away that we now rent extra space for things we don't use sometimes for years.

things we don't use sometimes for years. things we don't use sometimes for years. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, the global Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, the global Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, the global self- storage market in 2024 was a self- storage market in 2024 was a self- storage market in 2024 was a $50.6 $50.6 $50.6 billion industry. Wow. So, yeah, it I billion industry. Wow. So, yeah, it I billion industry. Wow. So, yeah, it I will say I mean particularly given your will say I mean particularly given your will say I mean particularly given your line of work because I have thought of line of work because I have thought of line of work because I have thought of investing in self storage as well and it investing in self storage as well and it investing in self storage as well and it feels akin to uh investing in tobacco feels akin to uh investing in tobacco feels akin to uh investing in tobacco companies, you know. I mean, it it's companies, you know. I mean, it it's companies, you know. I mean, it it's you're taking advantage of other you're taking advantage of other you're taking advantage of other people's vulnerabilities and possibly people's vulnerabilities and possibly people's vulnerabilities and possibly profiting off of uh off of something profiting off of uh off of something profiting off of uh off of something that I would rather heal them from than that I would rather heal them from than that I would rather heal them from than profit from. Now, that's a good point. profit from. Now, that's a good point. profit from. Now, that's a good point. You know, you know, You know, you know, You know, you know, um it could be the reason that I'm not, um it could be the reason that I'm not, um it could be the reason that I'm not, you know, an industrial baron. you know, an industrial baron. you know, an industrial baron. And at the same time, I sleep better And at the same time, I sleep better And at the same time, I sleep better knowing that I'm not uh that I'm again knowing that I'm not uh that I'm again knowing that I'm not uh that I'm again part of the solution rather than part of the solution rather than part of the solution rather than profiting off the problem. I mean, I profiting off the problem. I mean, I profiting off the problem. I mean, I don't want to name names, but I have don't want to name names, but I have don't want to name names, but I have people in my life who have hung on to people in my life who have hung on to people in my life who have hung on to things literally for 30 years saying, things literally for 30 years saying, things literally for 30 years saying, "One day I'm going to use them." Sure.

"One day I'm going to use them." Sure. "One day I'm going to use them." Sure. And now they're paying hundreds of And now they're paying hundreds of And now they're paying hundreds of dollars a month to store them just in dollars a month to store them just in dollars a month to store them just in case they use them. You could have case they use them. You could have case they use them. You could have bought the equipment you're storing five bought the equipment you're storing five bought the equipment you're storing five times over, 10 times over. And you know, times over, 10 times over. And you know, times over, 10 times over. And you know, we live on a halfacre. We're fortunate we live on a halfacre. We're fortunate we live on a halfacre. We're fortunate that way. Not like super rural, but that way. Not like super rural, but that way. Not like super rural, but rural enough. Yep. We have uh 2200 ft² rural enough. Yep. We have uh 2200 ft² rural enough. Yep. We have uh 2200 ft² house, 29 with the basement. Basement house, 29 with the basement. Basement house, 29 with the basement. Basement doesn't have a lot of storage. I have a doesn't have a lot of storage. I have a doesn't have a lot of storage. I have a twocar garage that basically two cars twocar garage that basically two cars twocar garage that basically two cars barely fit into. And we built a shed. barely fit into. And we built a shed. barely fit into. And we built a shed. And I said to Tony, my wife, that's it. And I said to Tony, my wife, that's it. And I said to Tony, my wife, that's it. That's it. If we can't accommodate it That's it. If we can't accommodate it That's it. If we can't accommodate it here, we don't need it or something else here, we don't need it or something else here, we don't need it or something else has to go. Yeah. And um Yeah. So, has to go. Yeah. And um Yeah. So, has to go. Yeah. And um Yeah. So, anything else on self- storage like it anything else on self- storage like it anything else on self- storage like it is a highly profitable industry is one is a highly profitable industry is one is a highly profitable industry is one that it's still growing, isn't it? So, that it's still growing, isn't it? So, that it's still growing, isn't it? So, the average size of a self-s storage the average size of a self-s storage the average size of a self-s storage unit is unit is unit is 56,900 square ft. For context, here in 56,900 square ft. For context, here in 56,900 square ft. For context, here in the US, a a football field, you know, the US, a a football field, you know, the US, a a football field, you know, like an American football field, 48,000 like an American football field, 48,000 like an American football field, 48,000 square feet. So the average is bigger square feet. So the average is bigger square feet. So the average is bigger than a football field, right? If you can than a football field, right? If you can than a football field, right? If you can imagine a stadium that you would go imagine a stadium that you would go imagine a stadium that you would go watch a a pro ball team play in the US, watch a a pro ball team play in the US, watch a a pro ball team play in the US, smaller than the average self- storage smaller than the average self- storage smaller than the average self- storage facility. And I get it if you've if facility. And I get it if you've if facility. And I get it if you've if you're moving and you need a place to you're moving and you need a place to you're moving and you need a place to dump your stuff for 4 months or dump your stuff for 4 months or dump your stuff for 4 months or renovating your home. Yeah. If you work, renovating your home. Yeah. If you work, renovating your home. Yeah. If you work, if you if you're like a a traveling if you if you're like a a traveling if you if you're like a a traveling nurse or doctor or, you know, you're on nurse or doctor or, you know, you're on nurse or doctor or, you know, you're on the road, there are time and you're you the road, there are time and you're you the road, there are time and you're you you don't have a permanent home. There

you don't have a permanent home. There you don't have a permanent home. There are there are definitely times when it are there are definitely times when it are there are definitely times when it comes in handy and it and it serves a comes in handy and it and it serves a comes in handy and it and it serves a purpose as a deferred decision purpose as a deferred decision purpose as a deferred decision destination. It's a total money suck. destination. It's a total money suck. destination. It's a total money suck. And um and to your point, right, I there And um and to your point, right, I there And um and to your point, right, I there was a woman I was I was leading a was a woman I was I was leading a was a woman I was I was leading a workshop in Portland, Oregon, and there workshop in Portland, Oregon, and there workshop in Portland, Oregon, and there was a woman was a woman was a woman there. She lives in Oregon. She raised there. She lives in Oregon. She raised there. She lives in Oregon. She raised her family in New Orleans. Her daughter, her family in New Orleans. Her daughter, her family in New Orleans. Her daughter, her grown daughter, lives in Amsterdam her grown daughter, lives in Amsterdam her grown daughter, lives in Amsterdam with her family. So, she's grown enough with her family. So, she's grown enough with her family. So, she's grown enough that she has kids and a and a husband. that she has kids and a and a husband. that she has kids and a and a husband. Everything that was in that storage unit Everything that was in that storage unit Everything that was in that storage unit was her daughter's essentially. um her was her daughter's essentially. um her was her daughter's essentially. um her daughter doesn't live in this country daughter doesn't live in this country daughter doesn't live in this country and has been out of the country for and has been out of the country for and has been out of the country for decades decades decades uh and she I mean she has been spending uh and she I mean she has been spending uh and she I mean she has been spending money every month on these things just money every month on these things just money every month on these things just because of her feelings and she started because of her feelings and she started because of her feelings and she started to during this workshop she started to to during this workshop she started to to during this workshop she started to cry not unusual um and my suggestion to cry not unusual um and my suggestion to cry not unusual um and my suggestion to her was you would save more money and be her was you would save more money and be her was you would save more money and be happier fly your daughter back to New happier fly your daughter back to New happier fly your daughter back to New Orleans meet her there go through the Orleans meet her there go through the Orleans meet her there go through the storage unit on a weekend, ship whatever storage unit on a weekend, ship whatever storage unit on a weekend, ship whatever she wants to Amsterdam and dispatch the she wants to Amsterdam and dispatch the she wants to Amsterdam and dispatch the rest of it. And she was so overwhelmed rest of it. And she was so overwhelmed rest of it. And she was so overwhelmed and and freaked out about the prospect and and freaked out about the prospect and and freaked out about the prospect of that. I mean, it really it really of that. I mean, it really it really of that. I mean, it really it really impacted her. And 3 weeks later, I got impacted her. And 3 weeks later, I got impacted her. And 3 weeks later, I got an email from her saying, "I feel like a an email from her saying, "I feel like a an email from her saying, "I feel like a 500 lb weight has been lifted off my 500 lb weight has been lifted off my 500 lb weight has been lifted off my back. I took your suggestion. I flew my

back. I took your suggestion. I flew my back. I took your suggestion. I flew my daughter in. In 3 days, we went through daughter in. In 3 days, we went through daughter in. In 3 days, we went through that storage space. I packed up that storage space. I packed up that storage space. I packed up basically two boxes and shipped it to basically two boxes and shipped it to basically two boxes and shipped it to her. Everything else went away. I cut her. Everything else went away. I cut her. Everything else went away. I cut that cord and my daughter's happy, I'm that cord and my daughter's happy, I'm that cord and my daughter's happy, I'm happy, and the, you know, that that happy, and the, you know, that that happy, and the, you know, that that steady drip on my pocketbook is steady drip on my pocketbook is steady drip on my pocketbook is completely gone. And she feels, I mean, completely gone. And she feels, I mean, completely gone. And she feels, I mean, the weight off of her the weight off of her the weight off of her was significant. Well, and I appreciate was significant. Well, and I appreciate was significant. Well, and I appreciate your compassion and your pastoral heart your compassion and your pastoral heart your compassion and your pastoral heart on that because this is an emotional on that because this is an emotional on that because this is an emotional issue for people. Totally. Right. issue for people. Totally. Right. issue for people. Totally. Right. There's shame associated with it. Like I There's shame associated with it. Like I There's shame associated with it. Like I can't park shame. can't park shame. can't park shame. What percentage again I'm giving you a What percentage again I'm giving you a What percentage again I'm giving you a pop quiz. I didn't tell I didn't tell pop quiz. I didn't tell I didn't tell pop quiz. I didn't tell I didn't tell you this was going to be on the test. you this was going to be on the test. you this was going to be on the test. Andrew, uh do you have any idea what Andrew, uh do you have any idea what Andrew, uh do you have any idea what percentage of people park their vehicles percentage of people park their vehicles percentage of people park their vehicles in their garage? I think I read like in their garage? I think I read like in their garage? I think I read like it's a minority, isn't it? I definitely it's a minority, isn't it? I definitely it's a minority, isn't it? I definitely think it's not. It's definitely less think it's not. It's definitely less think it's not. It's definitely less than half. I don't I don't have that than half. I don't I don't have that than half. I don't I don't have that stat. I think it was 74% I read cannot stat. I think it was 74% I read cannot stat. I think it was 74% I read cannot park their car in their garage. And I I park their car in their garage. And I I park their car in their garage. And I I was was one of them one of those people.

was was one of them one of those people. was was one of them one of those people. And then in 2020, I reread your And then in 2020, I reread your And then in 2020, I reread your principles. And I'm like, I got nothing principles. And I'm like, I got nothing principles. And I'm like, I got nothing to do. I can't fly anywhere. So gutted to do. I can't fly anywhere. So gutted to do. I can't fly anywhere. So gutted the whole thing. Put some ceiling the whole thing. Put some ceiling the whole thing. Put some ceiling storage units in. Awesome. Just a couple storage units in. Awesome. Just a couple storage units in. Awesome. Just a couple for some totes, Christmas lights, that for some totes, Christmas lights, that for some totes, Christmas lights, that kind of stuff, right? Summer stuff for kind of stuff, right? Summer stuff for kind of stuff, right? Summer stuff for the lake. And um one in, one out. And the lake. And um one in, one out. And the lake. And um one in, one out. And both cars have been parked in the garage both cars have been parked in the garage both cars have been parked in the garage for 5 years now. And that feels I'm for 5 years now. And that feels I'm for 5 years now. And that feels I'm going to ring the bell for that. Good. going to ring the bell for that. Good. going to ring the bell for that. Good. We're going to ring the bell again. We're going to ring the bell again. We're going to ring the bell again. There we go. uh you know that just made There we go. uh you know that just made There we go. uh you know that just made me so happy and then if it doesn't fit me so happy and then if it doesn't fit me so happy and then if it doesn't fit in the garage we can't handle it you in the garage we can't handle it you in the garage we can't handle it you know and then once a year I kind of go know and then once a year I kind of go know and then once a year I kind of go through every tote make sure that it's through every tote make sure that it's through every tote make sure that it's all current and uh and then we go on all current and uh and then we go on all current and uh and then we go on from there so again yeah not perfect but from there so again yeah not perfect but from there so again yeah not perfect but so much better because I used to think so much better because I used to think so much better because I used to think of it as the garage of shame speaking of of it as the garage of shame speaking of of it as the garage of shame speaking of emotions I'd go out there what do you do emotions I'd go out there what do you do emotions I'd go out there what do you do with kids stuff because that's very with kids stuff because that's very with kids stuff because that's very emotional so I want to tackle that from emotional so I want to tackle that from emotional so I want to tackle that from two perspectives one when your kids go two perspectives one when your kids go two perspectives one when your kids go to college so My kids are beyond the to college so My kids are beyond the to college so My kids are beyond the college years. So, we were storage college years. So, we were storage college years. So, we were storage depot, dad and mom's free storage for a depot, dad and mom's free storage for a depot, dad and mom's free storage for a number of years. And then I got a little number of years. And then I got a little number of years. And then I got a little bit ruthless when they hit their early bit ruthless when they hit their early bit ruthless when they hit their early 20s. And it's like the stuff's going.

20s. And it's like the stuff's going. 20s. And it's like the stuff's going. Either you deal with it or I'm dealing Either you deal with it or I'm dealing Either you deal with it or I'm dealing with it. So, you know, I always tell my with it. So, you know, I always tell my with it. So, you know, I always tell my friends, the good news is we raised our friends, the good news is we raised our friends, the good news is we raised our kids to be independent. The bad news is kids to be independent. The bad news is kids to be independent. The bad news is we raised our kids to be independent. we raised our kids to be independent. we raised our kids to be independent. So, you know, they're gone. Like, So, you know, they're gone. Like, So, you know, they're gone. Like, they're they're out of the house. And they're they're out of the house. And they're they're out of the house. And you know they know now like if they're you know they know now like if they're you know they know now like if they're in a move it's like can I just store my in a move it's like can I just store my in a move it's like can I just store my motorcycle here for a month? I'm like motorcycle here for a month? I'm like motorcycle here for a month? I'm like totally for a month no problem but totally for a month no problem but totally for a month no problem but doesn't live here. What advice do you doesn't live here. What advice do you doesn't live here. What advice do you have? Is that like being a draconian have? Is that like being a draconian have? Is that like being a draconian parent? Feel free to counsel me on that. parent? Feel free to counsel me on that. parent? Feel free to counsel me on that. No no no no. Again um when they're grown No no no no. Again um when they're grown No no no no. Again um when they're grown and they are living independent and they and they are living independent and they and they are living independent and they are not heading back right. I mean stuff are not heading back right. I mean stuff are not heading back right. I mean stuff happens. people lose happens. people lose happens. people lose jobs. jobs. jobs. There's times when they might come home There's times when they might come home There's times when they might come home to to spend some time and if they are if to to spend some time and if they are if to to spend some time and if they are if they are successful enough to live they are successful enough to live they are successful enough to live independently away from home and there's independently away from home and there's independently away from home and there's some consistency there. I'm I'm right some consistency there. I'm I'm right some consistency there. I'm I'm right there with you that the the the there with you that the the the there with you that the the the communication communication communication is we're going to set a we're going to is we're going to set a we're going to is we're going to set a we're going to set a timer and you've got six months to set a timer and you've got six months to set a timer and you've got six months to come deal with it and you know on the come deal with it and you know on the come deal with it and you know on the 181st day if you haven't dealt with it 181st day if you haven't dealt with it 181st day if you haven't dealt with it I'll deal with it and we're not going to I'll deal with it and we're not going to I'll deal with it and we're not going to discuss my choices with your things.

discuss my choices with your things. discuss my choices with your things. They're your things for the first six They're your things for the first six They're your things for the first six months, then they're my things, and I'll months, then they're my things, and I'll months, then they're my things, and I'll do what I'll do what I'm going to serve do what I'll do what I'm going to serve do what I'll do what I'm going to serve me and my space at that point. Yeah. And me and my space at that point. Yeah. And me and my space at that point. Yeah. And that's we did a version of that, too. that's we did a version of that, too. that's we did a version of that, too. And by the way, I should say now that And by the way, I should say now that And by the way, I should say now that they're independent and launched and they're independent and launched and they're independent and launched and employed and fortunate to be able to employed and fortunate to be able to employed and fortunate to be able to live on their own. I know that's not live on their own. I know that's not live on their own. I know that's not everybody's story, right? I now say to everybody's story, right? I now say to everybody's story, right? I now say to them, now that you're out, anytime you them, now that you're out, anytime you them, now that you're out, anytime you want to come back, that's fine. Like, I want to come back, that's fine. Like, I want to come back, that's fine. Like, I just had to get you launched, right? But just had to get you launched, right? But just had to get you launched, right? But if you had six months where you're like, if you had six months where you're like, if you had six months where you're like, "Hey, I don't have a place or we're "Hey, I don't have a place or we're "Hey, I don't have a place or we're between this or something devastating between this or something devastating between this or something devastating happens, you're welcome back for a happens, you're welcome back for a happens, you're welcome back for a season, you know, we're we're all happy season, you know, we're we're all happy season, you know, we're we're all happy to do that." But I just wanted them to do that." But I just wanted them to do that." But I just wanted them launched. So, yeah, totally. And so, I launched. So, yeah, totally. And so, I launched. So, yeah, totally. And so, I think the the journey is really when think the the journey is really when think the the journey is really when you've got toddlers, uh, you get a pass. you've got toddlers, uh, you get a pass. you've got toddlers, uh, you get a pass. You just have to pay attention. If You just have to pay attention. If You just have to pay attention. If you're if you're telling yourself, I'm you're if you're telling yourself, I'm you're if you're telling yourself, I'm saving this for them for when saving this for them for when saving this for them for when they they don't want your grandmother's they they don't want your grandmother's they they don't want your grandmother's china. They don't want your china. They don't want your china. They don't want your grandmother's silver. They don't want grandmother's silver. They don't want grandmother's silver. They don't want they're not they don't they're not going they're not they don't they're not going they're not they don't they're not going to entertain that way. They don't want to entertain that way. They don't want to entertain that way. They don't want your grandmother's uh photo albums.

your grandmother's uh photo albums. your grandmother's uh photo albums. They're socialives. They're socialives. They're socialives. They are not going to sit in a window They are not going to sit in a window They are not going to sit in a window box with a cup of tea and flip through box with a cup of tea and flip through box with a cup of tea and flip through old photo albums of people they've never old photo albums of people they've never old photo albums of people they've never met. It's just not it's not how they're met. It's just not it's not how they're met. It's just not it's not how they're wired. So, I if you want the kids to wired. So, I if you want the kids to wired. So, I if you want the kids to have those photos, you need to scan them have those photos, you need to scan them have those photos, you need to scan them and make a digital photo album and give and make a digital photo album and give and make a digital photo album and give them that. But they are not going to lug them that. But they are not going to lug them that. But they are not going to lug around boxes of old photographs, around boxes of old photographs, around boxes of old photographs, particularly if they're people that particularly if they're people that particularly if they're people that they've never met. You know, I I want to they've never met. You know, I I want to they've never met. You know, I I want to be careful so we don't identify it, but be careful so we don't identify it, but be careful so we don't identify it, but we have someone close to us who wasn't a we have someone close to us who wasn't a we have someone close to us who wasn't a hoarder, but like kept everything. And hoarder, but like kept everything. And hoarder, but like kept everything. And over eight decades, it really piles up. over eight decades, it really piles up. over eight decades, it really piles up. And it was left until the 11th hour. And it was left until the 11th hour. And it was left until the 11th hour. Never dealt with. Never dealt with. And Never dealt with. Never dealt with. And Never dealt with. Never dealt with. And it was one weekend the kids showed up. it was one weekend the kids showed up. it was one weekend the kids showed up. And at that point there were some really And at that point there were some really And at that point there were some really valuable things. Sure. But the clock was valuable things. Sure. But the clock was valuable things. Sure. But the clock was ticking. Ran out of time. It all ended ticking. Ran out of time. It all ended ticking. Ran out of time. It all ended up in a big bin and got hauled away, up in a big bin and got hauled away, up in a big bin and got hauled away, which was really a shame. But you think which was really a shame. But you think which was really a shame. But you think this stuff has value, I can't get rid of this stuff has value, I can't get rid of this stuff has value, I can't get rid of it. And probably one of my biggest meta it. And probably one of my biggest meta it. And probably one of my biggest meta lessons from you has been clutter is lessons from you has been clutter is lessons from you has been clutter is deferred decision, right? It's a deferred decision, right? It's a deferred decision, right? It's a leadership issue. Can you explain leadership issue. Can you explain leadership issue. Can you explain because along the way it was kind of because along the way it was kind of because along the way it was kind of like, well, somebody will use this like, well, somebody will use this like, well, somebody will use this someday or somebody will want this someday or somebody will want this someday or somebody will want this someday or I'm going to go over this at someday or I'm going to go over this at someday or I'm going to go over this at some point in my life and then your life some point in my life and then your life some point in my life and then your life is over before you know it. You've got is over before you know it. You've got is over before you know it. You've got dumpsters full of stuff that is of no dumpsters full of stuff that is of no dumpsters full of stuff that is of no value to anybody. But that idea, like value to anybody. But that idea, like value to anybody. But that idea, like even I've got something here. I'm like,

even I've got something here. I'm like, even I've got something here. I'm like, "Okay, I'm talking to Andrew." But I got "Okay, I'm talking to Andrew." But I got "Okay, I'm talking to Andrew." But I got my gimbal and I bought it a couple my gimbal and I bought it a couple my gimbal and I bought it a couple months ago and it kind of sits here on months ago and it kind of sits here on months ago and it kind of sits here on my desk because it's in and out of my my desk because it's in and out of my my desk because it's in and out of my bag. But I was got to go into that bag. But I was got to go into that bag. But I was got to go into that drawer in the back behind me. Like it drawer in the back behind me. Like it drawer in the back behind me. Like it can't just sit on my desk. So clutter is can't just sit on my desk. So clutter is can't just sit on my desk. So clutter is deferred decision. Do you want to talk deferred decision. Do you want to talk deferred decision. Do you want to talk about that? Sure. Uh when you set about that? Sure. Uh when you set about that? Sure. Uh when you set something down, chances are you've got a something down, chances are you've got a something down, chances are you've got a good story. I'm going to put this away good story. I'm going to put this away good story. I'm going to put this away later. you know, I don't have the time later. you know, I don't have the time later. you know, I don't have the time now, but I will and I will deal with it now, but I will and I will deal with it now, but I will and I will deal with it later. And you mean it when you say it. later. And you mean it when you say it. later. And you mean it when you say it. You don't think you're lying when you You don't think you're lying when you You don't think you're lying when you say it. Uh, and then you set down say it. Uh, and then you set down say it. Uh, and then you set down something on top of it and you tell something on top of it and you tell something on top of it and you tell yourself, "Oh, these things live yourself, "Oh, these things live yourself, "Oh, these things live together. This is actually a good together. This is actually a good together. This is actually a good strategy. I'll put them I'll put them strategy. I'll put them I'll put them strategy. I'll put them I'll put them all away at the same time because they all away at the same time because they all away at the same time because they go to the same place." And then you end go to the same place." And then you end go to the same place." And then you end up with piles and stacks and bags and up with piles and stacks and bags and up with piles and stacks and bags and bins of things that are waiting to be bins of things that are waiting to be bins of things that are waiting to be dealt with in the in this undefined dealt with in the in this undefined dealt with in the in this undefined future time when you future time when you future time when you perceive that you're going to have all perceive that you're going to have all perceive that you're going to have all this unstructured time available to you. this unstructured time available to you. this unstructured time available to you. When have you ever had a day that didn't When have you ever had a day that didn't When have you ever had a day that didn't have demands on your attention? Right.

have demands on your attention? Right. have demands on your attention? Right. Oh, that week down the road where I'm Oh, that week down the road where I'm Oh, that week down the road where I'm going to have nothing to do and nobody going to have nothing to do and nobody going to have nothing to do and nobody needs anything from me, then I'm going needs anything from me, then I'm going needs anything from me, then I'm going to go through it. Yeah. Never happen. to go through it. Yeah. Never happen. to go through it. Yeah. Never happen. Exactly. Yeah, you know, on a rainy day, Exactly. Yeah, you know, on a rainy day, Exactly. Yeah, you know, on a rainy day, I'm going to set some time aside and do I'm going to set some time aside and do I'm going to set some time aside and do this. On the rainy day, you're thinking, this. On the rainy day, you're thinking, this. On the rainy day, you're thinking, uh, it's a it's a uh, it's a it's a uh, it's a it's a cozy wet day. I think we'll build a cozy wet day. I think we'll build a cozy wet day. I think we'll build a fire, watch a movie, and spend some time fire, watch a movie, and spend some time fire, watch a movie, and spend some time together, or we'll, you know, we'll run together, or we'll, you know, we'll run together, or we'll, you know, we'll run some errands because nobody will be out. some errands because nobody will be out. some errands because nobody will be out. On the beautiful sunny day, you know, as On the beautiful sunny day, you know, as On the beautiful sunny day, you know, as soon as the weather clears up, I'll do soon as the weather clears up, I'll do soon as the weather clears up, I'll do it. And on that day, you're like, I want it. And on that day, you're like, I want it. And on that day, you're like, I want to go to the beach, or I want to go to go to the beach, or I want to go to go to the beach, or I want to go golfing, or I think we'll take, you golfing, or I think we'll take, you golfing, or I think we'll take, you know, we'll have a picnic. will go do know, we'll have a picnic. will go do know, we'll have a picnic. will go do something and we'll wait for the next something and we'll wait for the next something and we'll wait for the next rainy day and we just keep punting it rainy day and we just keep punting it rainy day and we just keep punting it down the field over and over again. down the field over and over again. down the field over and over again. That's those are the deferred decisions. That's those are the deferred decisions. That's those are the deferred decisions. If it's if it's important enough to keep If it's if it's important enough to keep If it's if it's important enough to keep in your life, then it's important enough in your life, then it's important enough in your life, then it's important enough to prioritize. And if it isn't, then it to prioritize. And if it isn't, then it to prioritize. And if it isn't, then it would be so much better to just let would be so much better to just let would be so much better to just let yourself off the hook. Stop lying to yourself off the hook. Stop lying to yourself off the hook. Stop lying to yourself. And I say that with love, yourself. And I say that with love, yourself. And I say that with love, right? I mean, it's not like you're a right? I mean, it's not like you're a right? I mean, it's not like you're a liar, but we tell the average adult liar, but we tell the average adult liar, but we tell the average adult tells 200 lies a day. And twothirds of tells 200 lies a day. And twothirds of tells 200 lies a day. And twothirds of them are probably just to ourselves.

them are probably just to ourselves. them are probably just to ourselves. Just the garbage conversations we have Just the garbage conversations we have Just the garbage conversations we have with ourselves. Um, and I'll deal with with ourselves. Um, and I'll deal with with ourselves. Um, and I'll deal with that later. That would be an example of that later. That would be an example of that later. That would be an example of that lie. Or, oh, I I don't have a place that lie. Or, oh, I I don't have a place that lie. Or, oh, I I don't have a place for this. H, you do actually. Or go make for this. H, you do actually. Or go make for this. H, you do actually. Or go make one, right? And if you don't, then maybe one, right? And if you don't, then maybe one, right? And if you don't, then maybe it doesn't need to live in your life. it doesn't need to live in your life. it doesn't need to live in your life. What are you doing with it? If you can't What are you doing with it? If you can't What are you doing with it? If you can't find a home for it, either something find a home for it, either something find a home for it, either something that has a home needs to become homeless that has a home needs to become homeless that has a home needs to become homeless and be released so it can now take that and be released so it can now take that and be released so it can now take that home or this thing that you're holding home or this thing that you're holding home or this thing that you're holding on to because of a story that it might on to because of a story that it might on to because of a story that it might come in handy someday for who, when, in come in handy someday for who, when, in come in handy someday for who, when, in what application. If you can't be what application. If you can't be what application. If you can't be specific enough to identify where and specific enough to identify where and specific enough to identify where and when you might use it or who might when you might use it or who might when you might use it or who might benefit from it, right? We replace the benefit from it, right? We replace the benefit from it, right? We replace the toaster. I've got I've got the old toaster. I've got I've got the old toaster. I've got I've got the old toaster. It's a perfectly good toaster, toaster. It's a perfectly good toaster, toaster. It's a perfectly good toaster, but the new one has four slots. This one but the new one has four slots. This one but the new one has four slots. This one only had two. So, I I don't want to only had two. So, I I don't want to only had two. So, I I don't want to throw it away. I want to give it to a throw it away. I want to give it to a throw it away. I want to give it to a good home. Of course, you do. The good good home. Of course, you do. The good good home. Of course, you do. The good home is any home that isn't home is any home that isn't home is any home that isn't yours. You can take it to a thrift yours. You can take it to a thrift yours. You can take it to a thrift store. You can put it up on, you know, store. You can put it up on, you know, store. You can put it up on, you know, Free Cycle or Next Door or uh Offer Up Free Cycle or Next Door or uh Offer Up Free Cycle or Next Door or uh Offer Up or Buy Nothing. There's plenty of people or Buy Nothing. There's plenty of people or Buy Nothing. There's plenty of people who are looking for a toaster right now who are looking for a toaster right now who are looking for a toaster right now who would be delighted to take your who would be delighted to take your who would be delighted to take your toaster. keeping it in the garage just toaster. keeping it in the garage just toaster. keeping it in the garage just in case you're not going to have a toast in case you're not going to have a toast in case you're not going to have a toast emergency. You're not going to need the emergency. You're not going to need the emergency. You're not going to need the toaster. Toast emergency. There's a new toaster. Toast emergency. There's a new toaster. Toast emergency. There's a new phrase I wanna I want to keep. Uh we phrase I wanna I want to keep. Uh we phrase I wanna I want to keep. Uh we There's a sunk cost bias to this, too,

There's a sunk cost bias to this, too, There's a sunk cost bias to this, too, isn't there? Yeah. What What role does isn't there? Yeah. What What role does isn't there? Yeah. What What role does sunk cost bias play in our attachment to sunk cost bias play in our attachment to sunk cost bias play in our attachment to goods? And I'm talking about goods that goods? And I'm talking about goods that goods? And I'm talking about goods that cost a dollar through to thousands of cost a dollar through to thousands of cost a dollar through to thousands of dollars. But it's like I paid good money dollars. But it's like I paid good money dollars. But it's like I paid good money for that four slot toaster and even for that four slot toaster and even for that four slot toaster and even though somebody gave me a two slot though somebody gave me a two slot though somebody gave me a two slot toaster for Christmas, I can't get rid toaster for Christmas, I can't get rid toaster for Christmas, I can't get rid of that four slot toaster because that of that four slot toaster because that of that four slot toaster because that cost me $54 or whatever toasters cost cost me $54 or whatever toasters cost cost me $54 or whatever toasters cost now. So what what what role does sunk now. So what what what role does sunk now. So what what what role does sunk cost bias play in all of this? cost bias play in all of this? cost bias play in all of this? For For For for anyone who has a for anyone who has a for anyone who has a um a relationship with money um a relationship with money um a relationship with money uh that has some charge around it. uh that has some charge around it. uh that has some charge around it. either you grew up without a lot of it. either you grew up without a lot of it. either you grew up without a lot of it. Um uh or you ha there's some you have Um uh or you ha there's some you have Um uh or you ha there's some you have some you have something around some you have something around some you have something around money. This becomes one of your triggers money. This becomes one of your triggers money. This becomes one of your triggers and and one of your 200 lies that I will and and one of your 200 lies that I will and and one of your 200 lies that I will totally get rid of it as long as I can totally get rid of it as long as I can totally get rid of it as long as I can get my money for it. Right. Well, you've get my money for it. Right. Well, you've get my money for it. Right. Well, you've already spent the money. You either got already spent the money. You either got already spent the money. You either got good use out of it, you got okay use out good use out of it, you got okay use out good use out of it, you got okay use out of it, you got no use out of it.

of it, you got no use out of it. of it, you got no use out of it. What is your time worth? If you bill it What is your time worth? If you bill it What is your time worth? If you bill it $50 an hour and the item is worth $50 an hour and the item is worth $50 an hour and the item is worth $50, if it takes you more than an hour $50, if it takes you more than an hour $50, if it takes you more than an hour to liquidate it, you're at a net loss. to liquidate it, you're at a net loss. to liquidate it, you're at a net loss. So, if the money, if it really is money So, if the money, if it really is money So, if the money, if it really is money and not your feelings, if we just stay and not your feelings, if we just stay and not your feelings, if we just stay on the objective math side of the on the objective math side of the on the objective math side of the equation, you're running at a loss. equation, you're running at a loss. equation, you're running at a loss. So, you could tell yourself, I just want So, you could tell yourself, I just want So, you could tell yourself, I just want to harvest the money back out of it. But to harvest the money back out of it. But to harvest the money back out of it. But there's diminishing returns in reality. there's diminishing returns in reality. there's diminishing returns in reality. The story is, "Oh, I can, you know, in The story is, "Oh, I can, you know, in The story is, "Oh, I can, you know, in 15 minutes I'll get my money out of it." 15 minutes I'll get my money out of it." 15 minutes I'll get my money out of it." Well, maybe the only way that you'll Well, maybe the only way that you'll Well, maybe the only way that you'll probably get your money out of it for 15 probably get your money out of it for 15 probably get your money out of it for 15 in 15 minutes is if you donated and take in 15 minutes is if you donated and take in 15 minutes is if you donated and take it off your taxes if it's a legitimate it off your taxes if it's a legitimate it off your taxes if it's a legitimate tax deduction. tax deduction. tax deduction. Otherwise, or if you could gift it to Otherwise, or if you could gift it to Otherwise, or if you could gift it to somebody and it would substitute for you somebody and it would substitute for you somebody and it would substitute for you actually having to pull money out of actually having to pull money out of actually having to pull money out of your pocket and buy them a gift. Right. your pocket and buy them a gift. Right. your pocket and buy them a gift. Right. then you would net the money back. Short then you would net the money back. Short then you would net the money back. Short of that, if you if if it's going to take of that, if you if if it's going to take of that, if you if if it's going to take you x amount of hours to liquidate it you x amount of hours to liquidate it you x amount of hours to liquidate it and it's only worth y amount of dollars, and it's only worth y amount of dollars, and it's only worth y amount of dollars, it's a very simple costbenefit analysis it's a very simple costbenefit analysis it's a very simple costbenefit analysis to figure out are you are you going to to figure out are you are you going to to figure out are you are you going to make money or you're going to lose make money or you're going to lose make money or you're going to lose money. And if we if we think of that money. And if we if we think of that money. And if we if we think of that idea, it's akin to the law of attraction idea, it's akin to the law of attraction idea, it's akin to the law of attraction and that kind of stuff where if money is and that kind of stuff where if money is and that kind of stuff where if money is actually fluid and it's not about actually fluid and it's not about actually fluid and it's not about holding the money, but money provides us holding the money, but money provides us holding the money, but money provides us the ability to do things, experience

the ability to do things, experience the ability to do things, experience things, um share things. Uh and it's not things, um share things. Uh and it's not things, um share things. Uh and it's not about accumulating it and and locking it about accumulating it and and locking it about accumulating it and and locking it up, then you got the use out of it that up, then you got the use out of it that up, then you got the use out of it that you got the use out of it. If you want you got the use out of it. If you want you got the use out of it. If you want it to be different in the future, be it to be different in the future, be it to be different in the future, be more mindful about the things you more mindful about the things you more mindful about the things you consume. be a different steward of both consume. be a different steward of both consume. be a different steward of both your financial resources and then the your financial resources and then the your financial resources and then the material resources that you create from material resources that you create from material resources that you create from those financial resources and buy less those financial resources and buy less those financial resources and buy less so that you have less you you have less so that you have less you you have less so that you have less you you have less of these things to um to engage your of these things to um to engage your of these things to um to engage your time and your your energy with or treat time and your your energy with or treat time and your your energy with or treat them like a loose garment and allow them them like a loose garment and allow them them like a loose garment and allow them to flow through your life with less to flow through your life with less to flow through your life with less attachment. attachment. attachment. You have the you have there the two You have the you have there the two You have the you have there the two different sides of that spectrum. The different sides of that spectrum. The different sides of that spectrum. The one is it's loose and it just comes and one is it's loose and it just comes and one is it's loose and it just comes and goes and I'm not attached to it and I'm goes and I'm not attached to it and I'm goes and I'm not attached to it and I'm not keeping score or I'm super keeping not keeping score or I'm super keeping not keeping score or I'm super keeping score in which case you probably need to score in which case you probably need to score in which case you probably need to play fewer games so that you can keep play fewer games so that you can keep play fewer games so that you can keep score tightly and not be lopsided.

score tightly and not be lopsided. score tightly and not be lopsided. Yeah. Well, and the other thing too, you Yeah. Well, and the other thing too, you Yeah. Well, and the other thing too, you know, if you're worried about money, know, if you're worried about money, know, if you're worried about money, you're so right. The number of duplicate you're so right. The number of duplicate you're so right. The number of duplicate purchases I've made in the last 8 years purchases I've made in the last 8 years purchases I've made in the last 8 years since I put your system into work in our since I put your system into work in our since I put your system into work in our home, in my life, is greatly reduced. home, in my life, is greatly reduced. home, in my life, is greatly reduced. The Phillips head screwdriver, you The Phillips head screwdriver, you The Phillips head screwdriver, you think, "Oh yeah, I know I have one. I think, "Oh yeah, I know I have one. I think, "Oh yeah, I know I have one. I can't find it." Well, if you know where can't find it." Well, if you know where can't find it." Well, if you know where it is every single time, you're not it is every single time, you're not it is every single time, you're not going to buy two. One one will do you going to buy two. One one will do you going to buy two. One one will do you for life, right? Which is awesome. Um, I for life, right? Which is awesome. Um, I for life, right? Which is awesome. Um, I want to talk about emotional attachment. want to talk about emotional attachment. want to talk about emotional attachment. So, we did and we deferred on this until So, we did and we deferred on this until So, we did and we deferred on this until literally a few months ago. Uh, but that literally a few months ago. Uh, but that literally a few months ago. Uh, but that Christmas break, last Christmas break, Christmas break, last Christmas break, Christmas break, last Christmas break, you know, between Christmas and New you know, between Christmas and New you know, between Christmas and New Year's where you have all those days Year's where you have all those days Year's where you have all those days where you don't know what day it is, where you don't know what day it is, where you don't know what day it is, right? We had five totes of memorabilia. right? We had five totes of memorabilia. right? We had five totes of memorabilia. Everything going back to my wife and I's Everything going back to my wife and I's Everything going back to my wife and I's childhood, which we didn't have a lot childhood, which we didn't have a lot childhood, which we didn't have a lot of, you know, being born in the '60s '7s of, you know, being born in the '60s '7s of, you know, being born in the '60s '7s kind of thing, raised in the ' 70s. kind of thing, raised in the ' 70s. kind of thing, raised in the ' 70s. People didn't hang on to a lot of stuff People didn't hang on to a lot of stuff People didn't hang on to a lot of stuff then. It's a lot more now. Um, so we had then. It's a lot more now. Um, so we had then. It's a lot more now. Um, so we had a few things and then all of our kids a few things and then all of our kids a few things and then all of our kids like third grade artwork, report cards, like third grade artwork, report cards, like third grade artwork, report cards, all their Sam did really big in sports, all their Sam did really big in sports, all their Sam did really big in sports, Jordan did really big in music and Jordan did really big in music and Jordan did really big in music and academics and while they're both strong academics and while they're both strong academics and while they're both strong in numerous areas. So we had all of that in numerous areas. So we had all of that in numerous areas. So we had all of that stuff and we had been that was the stuff and we had been that was the stuff and we had been that was the hardest part for me honestly of your hardest part for me honestly of your hardest part for me honestly of your whole system and we talked about it on whole system and we talked about it on whole system and we talked about it on the last episode and I remember you were the last episode and I remember you were the last episode and I remember you were saying your kids are not that trophy.

saying your kids are not that trophy. saying your kids are not that trophy. Your kids are not that piece of art. Your kids are not that piece of art. Your kids are not that piece of art. like that is not your relationship. But like that is not your relationship. But like that is not your relationship. But I felt really bad about it. So, and we I felt really bad about it. So, and we I felt really bad about it. So, and we had talked to the kids about it. Hey, do had talked to the kids about it. Hey, do had talked to the kids about it. Hey, do you want this tote? We don't want the you want this tote? We don't want the you want this tote? We don't want the tote. It's like, okay, well, you sure tote. It's like, okay, well, you sure tote. It's like, okay, well, you sure it's got your third grade artwork in it? it's got your third grade artwork in it? it's got your third grade artwork in it? I don't want it. Like, all right. So, my I don't want it. Like, all right. So, my I don't want it. Like, all right. So, my wife and I sat here in my office and we wife and I sat here in my office and we wife and I sat here in my office and we just went through all the totes. It was just went through all the totes. It was just went through all the totes. It was an afternoon. I mean, we saw her teddy an afternoon. I mean, we saw her teddy an afternoon. I mean, we saw her teddy bear from when she was 5 years old. The bear from when she was 5 years old. The bear from when she was 5 years old. The teddy bear. Bye-bye, Teddy. Teddy's gone teddy bear. Bye-bye, Teddy. Teddy's gone teddy bear. Bye-bye, Teddy. Teddy's gone now. Uh, I had stuff, couple things I now. Uh, I had stuff, couple things I now. Uh, I had stuff, couple things I kept from when I was a kid that were kept from when I was a kid that were kept from when I was a kid that were sentimental, but they're going to go to sentimental, but they're going to go to sentimental, but they're going to go to use. And then literally, we took five use. And then literally, we took five use. And then literally, we took five totes down to one. So, we have one totes down to one. So, we have one totes down to one. So, we have one single tote of our kids' childhood, and single tote of our kids' childhood, and single tote of our kids' childhood, and I figured that's okay. We needed to free I figured that's okay. We needed to free I figured that's okay. We needed to free up some storage space. Uh, my wife took up some storage space. Uh, my wife took up some storage space. Uh, my wife took the art that we thought was the most the art that we thought was the most the art that we thought was the most representative and the pictures that representative and the pictures that representative and the pictures that were most representative, put them in were most representative, put them in were most representative, put them in some scrapbooks, yearbooks she had kept some scrapbooks, yearbooks she had kept some scrapbooks, yearbooks she had kept for the kids, and a few other things. for the kids, and a few other things. for the kids, and a few other things. And then I had a ton of my university And then I had a ton of my university And then I had a ton of my university papers, like literally papers I would papers, like literally papers I would papers, like literally papers I would turn in for my various degrees. And I turn in for my various degrees. And I turn in for my various degrees. And I sorted that all out to a half dozen. And sorted that all out to a half dozen. And sorted that all out to a half dozen. And I thought, if I ever retire in 20 years, I thought, if I ever retire in 20 years, I thought, if I ever retire in 20 years, I'm going to go through those and see I'm going to go through those and see I'm going to go through those and see or, you know, in my 70s down way down or, you know, in my 70s down way down or, you know, in my 70s down way down the road, I'll take a look at what was I the road, I'll take a look at what was I the road, I'll take a look at what was I thinking back then and how did that thinking back then and how did that thinking back then and how did that become a throughine, but it's literally become a throughine, but it's literally become a throughine, but it's literally a handful. It all kids, my wife, me fits a handful. It all kids, my wife, me fits a handful. It all kids, my wife, me fits in one tote. Now, that was hard, but in one tote. Now, that was hard, but in one tote. Now, that was hard, but dude, once it was done, it felt so good.

dude, once it was done, it felt so good. dude, once it was done, it felt so good. I didn't want to think about the big I didn't want to think about the big I didn't want to think about the big garbage bags that we filled up and the garbage bags that we filled up and the garbage bags that we filled up and the recycling bins that we filled up. That recycling bins that we filled up. That recycling bins that we filled up. That kind of went to the curb and that was kind of went to the curb and that was kind of went to the curb and that was it. Um, so that's done. Any comments it. Um, so that's done. Any comments it. Um, so that's done. Any comments beyond that on Sorry, the interviewer is beyond that on Sorry, the interviewer is beyond that on Sorry, the interviewer is becoming the teacher here, but I'm also, becoming the teacher here, but I'm also, becoming the teacher here, but I'm also, as you can tell, an evangelist now, uh, as you can tell, an evangelist now, uh, as you can tell, an evangelist now, uh, Andrew for your system. I think it's Andrew for your system. I think it's Andrew for your system. I think it's fantastic. fantastic. fantastic. break that down for people who are like, break that down for people who are like, break that down for people who are like, "Yeah, I've been thinking about that and "Yeah, I've been thinking about that and "Yeah, I've been thinking about that and I don't want to do that because I have I don't want to do that because I have I don't want to do that because I have 10 totes or, you know, a whole room full 10 totes or, you know, a whole room full 10 totes or, you know, a whole room full of stuff from when my kids were younger of stuff from when my kids were younger of stuff from when my kids were younger that I don't want to get rid of." Well, that I don't want to get rid of." Well, that I don't want to get rid of." Well, congrat first of all, congratulations. congrat first of all, congratulations. congrat first of all, congratulations. Thank you. That's great. Right. Yeah. Thank you. That's great. Right. Yeah. Thank you. That's great. Right. Yeah. Ring the bell. There we are. That's Ring the bell. There we are. That's Ring the bell. There we are. That's awesome. And uh your dad's not the awesome. And uh your dad's not the awesome. And uh your dad's not the clock, your grandmother's not the clock, your grandmother's not the clock, your grandmother's not the teacup, your kid's not the trophy. Um teacup, your kid's not the trophy. Um teacup, your kid's not the trophy. Um and even I mean you're fortunate, right? and even I mean you're fortunate, right? and even I mean you're fortunate, right? I mean, no tragedies, no loss of I mean, no tragedies, no loss of I mean, no tragedies, no loss of children. I mean, no, we're very children. I mean, no, we're very children. I mean, no, we're very fortunate that those unspeakable fortunate that those unspeakable fortunate that those unspeakable tragedies where uh people lose their tragedies where uh people lose their tragedies where uh people lose their kids. Um uh and and the stuff is all kids. Um uh and and the stuff is all kids. Um uh and and the stuff is all that that that remains on one level on one remains on one level on one remains on one level on one plane and the kids are those things are plane and the kids are those things are plane and the kids are those things are not their me are not the memories. It's not their me are not the memories. It's not their me are not the memories. It's the most palpable way to access those the most palpable way to access those the most palpable way to access those memories when the grief is the most memories when the grief is the most memories when the grief is the most acute and and new over acute and and new over acute and and new over time. It's particularly uh intense, I time. It's particularly uh intense, I time. It's particularly uh intense, I think, when it's a child, but any loss think, when it's a child, but any loss think, when it's a child, but any loss is a loss. A parent, a sibling, a a good

is a loss. A parent, a sibling, a a good is a loss. A parent, a sibling, a a good friend, a partner, um a child, a pet, friend, a partner, um a child, a pet, friend, a partner, um a child, a pet, right? I mean uh right? I mean uh right? I mean uh so recognizing the distinction so recognizing the distinction so recognizing the distinction between the previous owner of the thing between the previous owner of the thing between the previous owner of the thing uh and the thing itself is a is a uh and the thing itself is a is a uh and the thing itself is a is a reflective process. There is no one way reflective process. There is no one way reflective process. There is no one way to do that. um uh it's unique to you and to do that. um uh it's unique to you and to do that. um uh it's unique to you and you and your emotional needs and how how you and your emotional needs and how how you and your emotional needs and how how willing you are to go to the place you willing you are to go to the place you willing you are to go to the place you need to go to to get clarity. Uh and need to go to to get clarity. Uh and need to go to to get clarity. Uh and that's different for everybody. Some that's different for everybody. Some that's different for everybody. Some people don't want to go deep. Uh it it people don't want to go deep. Uh it it people don't want to go deep. Uh it it freaks them out. They're uncomfortable. freaks them out. They're uncomfortable. freaks them out. They're uncomfortable. They don't trust that they'll be safe They don't trust that they'll be safe They don't trust that they'll be safe and okay if they go there. I mean, all and okay if they go there. I mean, all and okay if they go there. I mean, all the things. And I'm not a psychologist, the things. And I'm not a psychologist, the things. And I'm not a psychologist, right? I mean, I'm not a mental health right? I mean, I'm not a mental health right? I mean, I'm not a mental health practitioner. So, I can't counsel people practitioner. So, I can't counsel people practitioner. So, I can't counsel people on that on the clinical side of it. But on that on the clinical side of it. But on that on the clinical side of it. But on the mechanical side of it, on the on the mechanical side of it, on the on the mechanical side of it, on the process, it's it it takes as long as it process, it's it it takes as long as it process, it's it it takes as long as it takes for you to sit with something and takes for you to sit with something and takes for you to sit with something and get clarity. And uh it is what I would get clarity. And uh it is what I would get clarity. And uh it is what I would say is the the ground rules or the best say is the the ground rules or the best say is the the ground rules or the best practices are to remember the object practices are to remember the object practices are to remember the object isn't the person. Uh and if you are isn't the person. Uh and if you are isn't the person. Uh and if you are delegating the responsibility of keeping delegating the responsibility of keeping delegating the responsibility of keeping the memories alive to an object, you're the memories alive to an object, you're the memories alive to an object, you're abdicating your own

abdicating your own abdicating your own responsibility. The object could fail. responsibility. The object could fail. responsibility. The object could fail. There could, you know, I mean, the fires There could, you know, I mean, the fires There could, you know, I mean, the fires in Los Angeles, the hurricanes in in Los Angeles, the hurricanes in in Los Angeles, the hurricanes in Florida, the tornadoes in the middle of Florida, the tornadoes in the middle of Florida, the tornadoes in the middle of the the country, right? I mean, stuff the the country, right? I mean, stuff the the country, right? I mean, stuff happens. So relying on an inanimate happens. So relying on an inanimate happens. So relying on an inanimate object to do your heavy lifting is a bit object to do your heavy lifting is a bit object to do your heavy lifting is a bit um uh I don't want to say irresponsible um uh I don't want to say irresponsible um uh I don't want to say irresponsible with judgment, but you're abdicating with judgment, but you're abdicating with judgment, but you're abdicating your responsibility. If they're really your responsibility. If they're really your responsibility. If they're really that important to you, then find a way that important to you, then find a way that important to you, then find a way to keep them alive in your conversations to keep them alive in your conversations to keep them alive in your conversations with other people, in your experiences. with other people, in your experiences. with other people, in your experiences. Um, that's the way to keep memory Um, that's the way to keep memory Um, that's the way to keep memory palpable and and current, not delegating palpable and and current, not delegating palpable and and current, not delegating it to a teacup or a a piece of artwork. it to a teacup or a a piece of artwork. it to a teacup or a a piece of artwork. And I think, you know, if you've got And I think, you know, if you've got And I think, you know, if you've got artwork from your kids and you think artwork from your kids and you think artwork from your kids and you think it's good rather than just a scribble in it's good rather than just a scribble in it's good rather than just a scribble in an old, you know, National Geographic an old, you know, National Geographic an old, you know, National Geographic with a Sharpie while they were watching, with a Sharpie while they were watching, with a Sharpie while they were watching, you know, Barney or something on TV.

you know, Barney or something on TV. you know, Barney or something on TV. that could that could be recycled, but that could that could be recycled, but that could that could be recycled, but the artwork frame it or put it in a the artwork frame it or put it in a the artwork frame it or put it in a scrapbook. Um, if it means something to scrapbook. Um, if it means something to scrapbook. Um, if it means something to you, it also helps to not assume that it you, it also helps to not assume that it you, it also helps to not assume that it means something to somebody else. So, means something to somebody else. So, means something to somebody else. So, again, don't lie to yourself that I'm again, don't lie to yourself that I'm again, don't lie to yourself that I'm keeping it for them because they're keeping it for them because they're keeping it for them because they're quite explicit. I don't want the tote. quite explicit. I don't want the tote. quite explicit. I don't want the tote. Whatever's in that tote, that's about Whatever's in that tote, that's about Whatever's in that tote, that's about you and mom, not about me. When you you and mom, not about me. When you you and mom, not about me. When you leave, it's leaving. I'm not I'm not leave, it's leaving. I'm not I'm not leave, it's leaving. I'm not I'm not bringing it into my house. bringing it into my house. bringing it into my house. I I'm glad you had a childhood. I don't I I'm glad you had a childhood. I don't I I'm glad you had a childhood. I don't really want your teddy bear. really want your teddy bear. really want your teddy bear. It doesn't have any meaning to me. I It doesn't have any meaning to me. I It doesn't have any meaning to me. I didn't want my teddy bear. I certainly didn't want my teddy bear. I certainly didn't want my teddy bear. I certainly don't want yours. Yeah. No, I think don't want yours. Yeah. No, I think don't want yours. Yeah. No, I think that's really good. And it was uh it was that's really good. And it was uh it was that's really good. And it was uh it was for us, we haven't lost a child. Uh but for us, we haven't lost a child. Uh but for us, we haven't lost a child. Uh but we have people close to us who have. And we have people close to us who have. And we have people close to us who have. And I can't imagine the pain that that would I can't imagine the pain that that would I can't imagine the pain that that would bring going through item after item. But bring going through item after item. But bring going through item after item. But for us, it was a very nostalgic for us, it was a very nostalgic for us, it was a very nostalgic afternoon. It was fun. There were a afternoon. It was fun. There were a afternoon. It was fun. There were a couple of tears. there was like, "Oh, I couple of tears. there was like, "Oh, I couple of tears. there was like, "Oh, I forgot about that. That was so cool."

forgot about that. That was so cool." forgot about that. That was so cool." And now it's all manageable and the kids And now it's all manageable and the kids And now it's all manageable and the kids took a couple of things. Uh, and that took a couple of things. Uh, and that took a couple of things. Uh, and that was it. That was it. It was good. So, was it. That was it. It was good. So, was it. That was it. It was good. So, um, the other thing that I would say um, the other thing that I would say um, the other thing that I would say about it is, um, particularly if there's been a loss, um, particularly if there's been a loss, um, the glass half empty is your loss. um, the glass half empty is your loss. um, the glass half empty is your loss. The glass half full is is not exactly The glass half full is is not exactly The glass half full is is not exactly paying it forward, but in the same way paying it forward, but in the same way paying it forward, but in the same way of donating an organ is here is a way to of donating an organ is here is a way to of donating an organ is here is a way to to the best parts of them or the useful to the best parts of them or the useful to the best parts of them or the useful parts of them are out in the world. They parts of them are out in the world. They parts of them are out in the world. They are not are not are not here, but this is part of their legacy. here, but this is part of their legacy. here, but this is part of their legacy. So whether you created a scholarship in So whether you created a scholarship in So whether you created a scholarship in their name or just somebody got to wear their name or just somebody got to wear their name or just somebody got to wear their sweatshirt or their sneakers or their sweatshirt or their sneakers or their sweatshirt or their sneakers or their use their tennis racket, it's it's their use their tennis racket, it's it's their use their tennis racket, it's it's still they're out in the world and and still they're out in the world and and still they're out in the world and and in that big mysterious eb and flow of in that big mysterious eb and flow of in that big mysterious eb and flow of human human human experience, it continues. Yeah.

experience, it continues. Yeah. experience, it continues. Yeah. No, you know, the other thing that that No, you know, the other thing that that No, you know, the other thing that that is helpful I I like that. Uh my wife and is helpful I I like that. Uh my wife and is helpful I I like that. Uh my wife and I, you know, we're both public speakers, I, you know, we're both public speakers, I, you know, we're both public speakers, so I wish we weren't because I'd be so I wish we weren't because I'd be so I wish we weren't because I'd be wearing the same stuff I was 20 years wearing the same stuff I was 20 years wearing the same stuff I was 20 years ago. Uh doesn't bother me. Back in the ago. Uh doesn't bother me. Back in the ago. Uh doesn't bother me. Back in the day, it was simple. You have five day, it was simple. You have five day, it was simple. You have five shirts, super simple. Well, now you shirts, super simple. Well, now you shirts, super simple. Well, now you can't wear the same stuff on stage over can't wear the same stuff on stage over can't wear the same stuff on stage over and over again. So, sometimes you end up and over again. So, sometimes you end up and over again. So, sometimes you end up with a fairly with a fairly with a fairly expensive, not worn out wardrobe. And we expensive, not worn out wardrobe. And we expensive, not worn out wardrobe. And we found a charity nearby called Dress for found a charity nearby called Dress for found a charity nearby called Dress for Success. Oh, yeah. Great organization. Success. Oh, yeah. Great organization. Success. Oh, yeah. Great organization. They're beyond this community. They're a They're beyond this community. They're a They're beyond this community. They're a franchise. Oh, they're all over the franchise. Oh, they're all over the franchise. Oh, they're all over the Yeah. Yeah. They're all over the They're Yeah. Yeah. They're all over the They're Yeah. Yeah. They're all over the They're all over They're certainly all over all over They're certainly all over all over They're certainly all over North America. Um they might be all over North America. Um they might be all over North America. Um they might be all over the world. So, explain what they do cuz the world. So, explain what they do cuz the world. So, explain what they do cuz this was so cool to be able to drop off this was so cool to be able to drop off this was so cool to be able to drop off suits and like, you know, expensive suits and like, you know, expensive suits and like, you know, expensive clothing knowing that it would go to a clothing knowing that it would go to a clothing knowing that it would go to a good cause, not just get used as a good cause, not just get used as a good cause, not just get used as a Halloween costume at a thrift store. Halloween costume at a thrift store. Halloween costume at a thrift store. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, they repurpose uh Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, they repurpose uh Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, they repurpose uh clothing for folks who are uh clothing for folks who are uh clothing for folks who are uh re-entering the job market um and need re-entering the job market um and need re-entering the job market um and need professional clothing and for whatever professional clothing and for whatever professional clothing and for whatever reason, whether it's uh you know uh uh reason, whether it's uh you know uh uh reason, whether it's uh you know uh uh formerly incarcerated or just um uh down formerly incarcerated or just um uh down formerly incarcerated or just um uh down on your luck and um undermployed uh on your luck and um undermployed uh on your luck and um undermployed uh perhaps you know uh displaced or perhaps you know uh displaced or perhaps you know uh displaced or homeless. anybody who needs um who needs homeless. anybody who needs um who needs homeless. anybody who needs um who needs uh professionallooking clothing um uh uh professionallooking clothing um uh uh professionallooking clothing um uh can can go shopping at Dress for Success can can go shopping at Dress for Success can can go shopping at Dress for Success and and um and when I say shopping, it and and um and when I say shopping, it and and um and when I say shopping, it doesn't involve money, right? I mean, doesn't involve money, right? I mean, doesn't involve money, right? I mean, they make things available to folks so

they make things available to folks so they make things available to folks so that they can have a professional that they can have a professional that they can have a professional wardrobe and go back out into the job wardrobe and go back out into the job wardrobe and go back out into the job market and um and not have not have that market and um and not have not have that market and um and not have not have that be a stumbling block that they have, you be a stumbling block that they have, you be a stumbling block that they have, you know, that they they can't dress for the know, that they they can't dress for the know, that they they can't dress for the role that they want and they can't role that they want and they can't role that they want and they can't present themselves in a way that while present themselves in a way that while present themselves in a way that while we wish that people didn't judge other we wish that people didn't judge other we wish that people didn't judge other people on their appearances, they do. people on their appearances, they do. people on their appearances, they do. Yeah. Yeah. So, we want we want to arm Yeah. Yeah. So, we want we want to arm Yeah. Yeah. So, we want we want to arm everybody who walks into an interview or everybody who walks into an interview or everybody who walks into an interview or any sort of professional situation in any sort of professional situation in any sort of professional situation in garments that are not going to snag garments that are not going to snag garments that are not going to snag somebody's attention and think like, somebody's attention and think like, somebody's attention and think like, "Oh, that looks tattered or that looks "Oh, that looks tattered or that looks "Oh, that looks tattered or that looks worn or old and maybe they, you know, worn or old and maybe they, you know, worn or old and maybe they, you know, maybe they're not maybe they're not a maybe they're not maybe they're not a maybe they're not maybe they're not a good candidate because they don't look good candidate because they don't look good candidate because they don't look together." Yes. That neutralizes that so together." Yes. That neutralizes that so together." Yes. That neutralizes that so that hopefully we're we can focus on that hopefully we're we can focus on that hopefully we're we can focus on their merits and their their skill set their merits and their their skill set their merits and their their skill set rather than their presentation. It's a rather than their presentation. It's a rather than their presentation. It's a Yeah, it gives them gives them a a level Yeah, it gives them gives them a a level Yeah, it gives them gives them a a level playing field, right? All things being playing field, right? All things being playing field, right? All things being considered, your clothes aren't shabby. considered, your clothes aren't shabby. considered, your clothes aren't shabby. You're not going in there with holes in You're not going in there with holes in You're not going in there with holes in your shirt and uh and you can you can your shirt and uh and you can you can your shirt and uh and you can you can make a go of it. Um, so I want to just make a go of it. Um, so I want to just make a go of it. Um, so I want to just rehearse the framework so everything in rehearse the framework so everything in rehearse the framework so everything in one place. So we had spices in two one place. So we had spices in two one place. So we had spices in two places in the kitchen and uh a reserve places in the kitchen and uh a reserve places in the kitchen and uh a reserve in the pantry down in the basement. And in the pantry down in the basement. And in the pantry down in the basement. And uh we consolidated all of those.

uh we consolidated all of those. uh we consolidated all of those. literally got little bottles off Amazon. literally got little bottles off Amazon. literally got little bottles off Amazon. It was like 30 40 bucks with a label on It was like 30 40 bucks with a label on It was like 30 40 bucks with a label on them. All the spices are now in one them. All the spices are now in one them. All the spices are now in one spot. It's super easy. All alphabetized. spot. It's super easy. All alphabetized. spot. It's super easy. All alphabetized. It's uh anal retentive person's dream. I It's uh anal retentive person's dream. I It's uh anal retentive person's dream. I love it. Fantastic. And we've done that love it. Fantastic. And we've done that love it. Fantastic. And we've done that with almost everything in our house. So with almost everything in our house. So with almost everything in our house. So this is where the pictures live. This is this is where the pictures live. This is this is where the pictures live. This is where the albums live. This is where the where the albums live. This is where the where the albums live. This is where the books. The exception is books. We have books. The exception is books. We have books. The exception is books. We have actually You want to talk about books? actually You want to talk about books? actually You want to talk about books? Uh let me put a pin in that. We'll come Uh let me put a pin in that. We'll come Uh let me put a pin in that. We'll come back to it. So like like with like So back to it. So like like with like So back to it. So like like with like So this is where we keep the cleaning this is where we keep the cleaning this is where we keep the cleaning supplies, not all over the house. This supplies, not all over the house. This supplies, not all over the house. This is where we keep uh whatever. Right. So is where we keep uh whatever. Right. So is where we keep uh whatever. Right. So we do that. Then um you've got uh what? we do that. Then um you've got uh what? we do that. Then um you've got uh what? Everything in one place. Uh one in one Everything in one place. Uh one in one Everything in one place. Uh one in one out. That is if you get something new, out. That is if you get something new, out. That is if you get something new, the old goes out. If you buy new the old goes out. If you buy new the old goes out. If you buy new cinnamon, the old cinnamon might be a cinnamon, the old cinnamon might be a cinnamon, the old cinnamon might be a year too old. Pitch it. Start with the year too old. Pitch it. Start with the year too old. Pitch it. Start with the new so you don't end up with a new so you don't end up with a new so you don't end up with a reservoir. Uh, same with your clothing reservoir. Uh, same with your clothing reservoir. Uh, same with your clothing is probably the best example. You bought is probably the best example. You bought is probably the best example. You bought some new jeans, the old jeans get some new jeans, the old jeans get some new jeans, the old jeans get donated or relegated to the paint. And donated or relegated to the paint. And donated or relegated to the paint. And then what was the third one again? I'm then what was the third one again? I'm then what was the third one again? I'm just blanking. So, one home for just blanking. So, one home for just blanking. So, one home for everything, like with like something in, everything, like with like something in, everything, like with like something in, something out. Yeah. Yeah. So, when that something out. Yeah. Yeah. So, when that something out. Yeah. Yeah. So, when that happens, you've worked with thousands of happens, you've worked with thousands of happens, you've worked with thousands of clients, maybe more. What happens to clients, maybe more. What happens to clients, maybe more. What happens to people? What happens to their life?

people? What happens to their life? people? What happens to their life? Freedom. I mean, real freedom. They they Freedom. I mean, real freedom. They they Freedom. I mean, real freedom. They they say it all the time. We're right now in say it all the time. We're right now in say it all the time. We're right now in the middle of uh we teach these 10-week the middle of uh we teach these 10-week the middle of uh we teach these 10-week programs called the unstuff your life programs called the unstuff your life programs called the unstuff your life system and uh we just just last night I system and uh we just just last night I system and uh we just just last night I was teaching um uh auxiliary spaces was was teaching um uh auxiliary spaces was was teaching um uh auxiliary spaces was the module that we were teaching. So the module that we were teaching. So the module that we were teaching. So that's attics, basement, garages, that's attics, basement, garages, that's attics, basement, garages, off-site storage, auxiliary spaces like off-site storage, auxiliary spaces like off-site storage, auxiliary spaces like sheds and things like that. So we were sheds and things like that. So we were sheds and things like that. So we were we were just in that module. That's why we were just in that module. That's why we were just in that module. That's why I had that stat on the $50 billion a I had that stat on the $50 billion a I had that stat on the $50 billion a year because I I literally just taught year because I I literally just taught year because I I literally just taught it last night. it last night. it last night. Um they already I think we're three Um they already I think we're three Um they already I think we're three weeks into the program and the mindset weeks into the program and the mindset weeks into the program and the mindset shifts that these folks are having is shifts that these folks are having is shifts that these folks are having is tremendous and they're talking about the tremendous and they're talking about the tremendous and they're talking about the freedom that they're experiencing in freedom that they're experiencing in freedom that they're experiencing in their life as a result of not having to their life as a result of not having to their life as a result of not having to waste time uh having fewer things to waste time uh having fewer things to waste time uh having fewer things to manage. manage. manage. And we can't go back and recapture the And we can't go back and recapture the And we can't go back and recapture the time that you've spent. But going time that you've spent. But going time that you've spent. But going forward, you're just unencumbered. It forward, you're just unencumbered. It forward, you're just unencumbered. It really is. There's just less to manage.

really is. There's just less to manage. really is. There's just less to manage. And so you have the free time to do And so you have the free time to do And so you have the free time to do whatever you want with it. And and I whatever you want with it. And and I whatever you want with it. And and I again, as a coach, u as a thought again, as a coach, u as a thought again, as a coach, u as a thought leader, I don't have an agenda over what leader, I don't have an agenda over what leader, I don't have an agenda over what is a better use of your time. If you is a better use of your time. If you is a better use of your time. If you want to coach your want to coach your want to coach your grandkids soccer team, awesome. You want grandkids soccer team, awesome. You want grandkids soccer team, awesome. You want to cure cancer, awesome. You want to to cure cancer, awesome. You want to to cure cancer, awesome. You want to volunteer in a soup kitchen, great. You volunteer in a soup kitchen, great. You volunteer in a soup kitchen, great. You want to spend more time with your want to spend more time with your want to spend more time with your wife? wife? wife? Great. There is no better use of the Great. There is no better use of the Great. There is no better use of the time than what is aligned with your time than what is aligned with your time than what is aligned with your values and brings meaning and and values and brings meaning and and values and brings meaning and and and happiness to you. I don't I I'm not and happiness to you. I don't I I'm not and happiness to you. I don't I I'm not uh I'm not the arbiter of value in that uh I'm not the arbiter of value in that uh I'm not the arbiter of value in that sense. I want you to have the time to do sense. I want you to have the time to do sense. I want you to have the time to do whatever you want to do with it. I don't whatever you want to do with it. I don't whatever you want to do with it. I don't care what it is. What I what I do care care what it is. What I what I do care care what it is. What I what I do care about is that let's get the obstacles, about is that let's get the obstacles, about is that let's get the obstacles, the physical, the mental, emotional, the physical, the mental, emotional, the physical, the mental, emotional, spiritual obstacles out of your way so spiritual obstacles out of your way so spiritual obstacles out of your way so that you're very clear at that point that you're very clear at that point that you're very clear at that point that there are no more excuses or that there are no more excuses or that there are no more excuses or explanations. So then if you decide explanations. So then if you decide explanations. So then if you decide actually I thought I wanted to cure actually I thought I wanted to cure actually I thought I wanted to cure cancer, but really what I want to do is cancer, but really what I want to do is cancer, but really what I want to do is lay in a hammock and read a book. Great.

lay in a hammock and read a book. Great. lay in a hammock and read a book. Great. Now you know that instead of tormenting Now you know that instead of tormenting Now you know that instead of tormenting yourself saying, "God, you know, if I yourself saying, "God, you know, if I yourself saying, "God, you know, if I only got my stuff together, I could go only got my stuff together, I could go only got my stuff together, I could go back to school and cure cancer." A and back to school and cure cancer." A and back to school and cure cancer." A and now you're clear in the time that I have now you're clear in the time that I have now you're clear in the time that I have left, I really want to read, you know, a left, I really want to read, you know, a left, I really want to read, you know, a hundred great books, spend more time hundred great books, spend more time hundred great books, spend more time with my family, and not make a mess. with my family, and not make a mess. with my family, and not make a mess. That's a that's noble. That's a great That's a that's noble. That's a great That's a that's noble. That's a great That's great. Now you have clarity That's great. Now you have clarity That's great. Now you have clarity instead of there's so much there are so instead of there's so much there are so instead of there's so much there are so many people I think spend so much time many people I think spend so much time many people I think spend so much time between their potential and you know between their potential and you know between their potential and you know unfortunately we all many of us got that unfortunately we all many of us got that unfortunately we all many of us got that in elementary school right in grade in elementary school right in grade in elementary school right in grade school not living up to his potential school not living up to his potential school not living up to his potential not living up to her not living up to her not living up to her potential. Thank potential. Thank potential. Thank you. And uh and I think it just set up a you. And uh and I think it just set up a you. And uh and I think it just set up a a pattern of unrealistic expectations a pattern of unrealistic expectations a pattern of unrealistic expectations based on somebody else's uh evaluation based on somebody else's uh evaluation based on somebody else's uh evaluation and then we feel crappy. Yeah. Yeah. You and then we feel crappy. Yeah. Yeah. You and then we feel crappy. Yeah. Yeah. You know, for me probably the biggest know, for me probably the biggest know, for me probably the biggest difference for leaders who are difference for leaders who are difference for leaders who are wondering, do I really want to do this wondering, do I really want to do this wondering, do I really want to do this because it's going to take you some time because it's going to take you some time because it's going to take you some time up front and you said I think the up front and you said I think the up front and you said I think the minimum is 20 minutes. I'm going to do a minimum is 20 minutes. I'm going to do a minimum is 20 minutes. I'm going to do a drawer 20 minute 15 minutes. So 15 drawer 20 minute 15 minutes. So 15 drawer 20 minute 15 minutes. So 15 minutes I'm going to tackle the junk minutes I'm going to tackle the junk minutes I'm going to tackle the junk drawer. You can get a lot done in 15 drawer. You can get a lot done in 15 drawer. You can get a lot done in 15 minutes. But it's honestly if you've got minutes. But it's honestly if you've got minutes. But it's honestly if you've got a disord like for me it took days and I a disord like for me it took days and I a disord like for me it took days and I just took my summer vacation took a just took my summer vacation took a just took my summer vacation took a couple of days and just went at it deep.

couple of days and just went at it deep. couple of days and just went at it deep. But the maintenance is easy. Like once But the maintenance is easy. Like once But the maintenance is easy. Like once it's I always say it's easier to keep a it's I always say it's easier to keep a it's I always say it's easier to keep a clean car clean. If you got a filthy car clean car clean. If you got a filthy car clean car clean. If you got a filthy car that's going to take you a while. If you that's going to take you a while. If you that's going to take you a while. If you just need to quickly wash it down and just need to quickly wash it down and just need to quickly wash it down and give it a light vacuum, you you can do give it a light vacuum, you you can do give it a light vacuum, you you can do that in half an hour. It's not that that in half an hour. It's not that that in half an hour. It's not that hard. It's easier to keep organized hard. It's easier to keep organized hard. It's easier to keep organized stuff organized. What it's done for me stuff organized. What it's done for me stuff organized. What it's done for me over the last eight years is leadership over the last eight years is leadership over the last eight years is leadership is hard. Okay? It's just hard. And is hard. Okay? It's just hard. And is hard. Okay? It's just hard. And you've always got stuff. I know every you've always got stuff. I know every you've always got stuff. I know every leader I talk to has trouble shutting leader I talk to has trouble shutting leader I talk to has trouble shutting the laptop. It's like, "How am I going the laptop. It's like, "How am I going the laptop. It's like, "How am I going to solve this problem? I really need to to solve this problem? I really need to to solve this problem? I really need to let that person go, but I don't want to let that person go, but I don't want to let that person go, but I don't want to let that person go." D I walk into my let that person go." D I walk into my let that person go." D I walk into my shed, looks like a bomb went off. I'm shed, looks like a bomb went off. I'm shed, looks like a bomb went off. I'm like, "And I got that to deal with." And like, "And I got that to deal with." And like, "And I got that to deal with." And then I go into my garage and I'm like, then I go into my garage and I'm like, then I go into my garage and I'm like, "And I got that to deal with." Then I'm "And I got that to deal with." Then I'm "And I got that to deal with." Then I'm trying to find the cinnamon and I got trying to find the cinnamon and I got trying to find the cinnamon and I got that to deal with. And it becomes that to deal with. And it becomes that to deal with. And it becomes overwhelming. And now when I go into the overwhelming. And now when I go into the overwhelming. And now when I go into the shed, I'm like, I know exactly where shed, I'm like, I know exactly where shed, I'm like, I know exactly where that is. In fact, after this, we're that is. In fact, after this, we're that is. In fact, after this, we're selling a car today. I know where the selling a car today. I know where the selling a car today. I know where the floor mats are. There's no guess. I know floor mats are. There's no guess. I know floor mats are. There's no guess. I know exactly where they are because they've exactly where they are because they've exactly where they are because they've been in the same place for the last 7 been in the same place for the last 7 been in the same place for the last 7 years. And I'm just going to go take years. And I'm just going to go take years. And I'm just going to go take them out, put them in the vehicle, make them out, put them in the vehicle, make them out, put them in the vehicle, make sure that they're there when the person sure that they're there when the person sure that they're there when the person picks up the car that we're selling picks up the car that we're selling picks up the car that we're selling today. Uh I know exactly where my today. Uh I know exactly where my today. Uh I know exactly where my shovels are. I know. So when I walk into shovels are. I know. So when I walk into shovels are. I know. So when I walk into the garage, I feel good. When I walk the garage, I feel good. When I walk the garage, I feel good. When I walk into the shed, when I walk into the into the shed, when I walk into the into the shed, when I walk into the basement, when I walk into the kitchen, basement, when I walk into the kitchen, basement, when I walk into the kitchen, when I walk into where my stuff is, I'm when I walk into where my stuff is, I'm when I walk into where my stuff is, I'm like, I know exactly where that is. And like, I know exactly where that is. And like, I know exactly where that is. And it's like for me, one less thing I have it's like for me, one less thing I have it's like for me, one less thing I have to worry about. And now I can focus on to worry about. And now I can focus on to worry about. And now I can focus on the stuff that actually is complex cuz the stuff that actually is complex cuz the stuff that actually is complex cuz it's supposed to be complex, my it's supposed to be complex, my it's supposed to be complex, my leadership or my writing or my speaking

leadership or my writing or my speaking leadership or my writing or my speaking or my interview prep. Does that resonate or my interview prep. Does that resonate or my interview prep. Does that resonate at all? Do you want to nuance that? For at all? Do you want to nuance that? For at all? Do you want to nuance that? For me, that's what it buys me. Of course, me, that's what it buys me. Of course, me, that's what it buys me. Of course, failure breeds failure. Success breeds failure breeds failure. Success breeds failure breeds failure. Success breeds success. And so, when you are success. And so, when you are success. And so, when you are feeling feeling feeling overwhelmed, it becomes a pylon. You I I overwhelmed, it becomes a pylon. You I I overwhelmed, it becomes a pylon. You I I just I experienced this just last night just I experienced this just last night just I experienced this just last night in the bathtub. I was trying to get in the bathtub. I was trying to get in the bathtub. I was trying to get ready for bed and I thought about one ready for bed and I thought about one ready for bed and I thought about one thing that was I was upset about and thing that was I was upset about and thing that was I was upset about and that led me to start to think about that led me to start to think about that led me to start to think about other places where I'm disappointed or other places where I'm disappointed or other places where I'm disappointed or frustrated, where things aren't frustrated, where things aren't frustrated, where things aren't happening the way I want to. And I had happening the way I want to. And I had happening the way I want to. And I had to mechanically interrupt myself because to mechanically interrupt myself because to mechanically interrupt myself because I recognized that this was gonna this I recognized that this was gonna this I recognized that this was gonna this was gonna this was going to be a problem was gonna this was going to be a problem was gonna this was going to be a problem for me going to sleep because now I was for me going to sleep because now I was for me going to sleep because now I was just piling on all the grievances and just piling on all the grievances and just piling on all the grievances and the disappointments and the upsets. the disappointments and the upsets. the disappointments and the upsets. Whereas if I flip it over I mean not to Whereas if I flip it over I mean not to Whereas if I flip it over I mean not to say that any of those things weren't say that any of those things weren't say that any of those things weren't true or accurate and nothing that I can true or accurate and nothing that I can true or accurate and nothing that I can do about them at 10 o'clock at night in do about them at 10 o'clock at night in do about them at 10 o'clock at night in a a a bathtub. Yeah. So instead pivoting to bathtub. Yeah. So instead pivoting to bathtub. Yeah. So instead pivoting to all of that is true and I do want to get all of that is true and I do want to get all of that is true and I do want to get a good night's sleep. So instead what a good night's sleep. So instead what a good night's sleep. So instead what I'm going to do is actually I'm going to I'm going to do is actually I'm going to I'm going to do is actually I'm going to I'm going to do a little gratitude. I'm I'm going to do a little gratitude. I'm I'm going to do a little gratitude. I'm going to do the reverse and I'm just going to do the reverse and I'm just going to do the reverse and I'm just going to start to list what what going to start to list what what going to start to list what what actually is working to quiet my mind actually is working to quiet my mind actually is working to quiet my mind down, quiet my heart down, get myself down, quiet my heart down, get myself down, quiet my heart down, get myself ready for bed and not get into that ready for bed and not get into that ready for bed and not get into that agitated state. So, I think that agitated state. So, I think that agitated state. So, I think that building off of what you're saying is we building off of what you're saying is we building off of what you're saying is we we don't there's enough to do on a daily

we don't there's enough to do on a daily we don't there's enough to do on a daily basis, these kinds of things, the life basis, these kinds of things, the life basis, these kinds of things, the life administration things that um we can administration things that um we can administration things that um we can always uh hack and make simpler and more always uh hack and make simpler and more always uh hack and make simpler and more direct so that there's less friction direct so that there's less friction direct so that there's less friction because the big things are going to because the big things are going to because the big things are going to require our attention. And what we will require our attention. And what we will require our attention. And what we will often tell ourselves, again, one of the often tell ourselves, again, one of the often tell ourselves, again, one of the 200 lies, is I'm going to get all this 200 lies, is I'm going to get all this 200 lies, is I'm going to get all this little stuff out of the way and then I'm little stuff out of the way and then I'm little stuff out of the way and then I'm going to have this big unstructured time going to have this big unstructured time going to have this big unstructured time where I can do my big work. It doesn't where I can do my big work. It doesn't where I can do my big work. It doesn't work that way. You want to do the big work that way. You want to do the big work that way. You want to do the big work because that is important. And and work because that is important. And and work because that is important. And and if the little stuff is either not if the little stuff is either not if the little stuff is either not uh annoying you because it isn't doesn't uh annoying you because it isn't doesn't uh annoying you because it isn't doesn't exist or because you have an ability to exist or because you have an ability to exist or because you have an ability to to put it in perspective and know that to put it in perspective and know that to put it in perspective and know that in 15 minutes a day I can knock that in 15 minutes a day I can knock that in 15 minutes a day I can knock that out. I don't need to do that before I out. I don't need to do that before I out. I don't need to do that before I can work on this paper for an hour. The can work on this paper for an hour. The can work on this paper for an hour. The one thing I want to say about the 15 one thing I want to say about the 15 one thing I want to say about the 15 minutes is if you're neurode divergent, minutes is if you're neurode divergent, minutes is if you're neurode divergent, if you have ADHD or you have some if you have ADHD or you have some if you have ADHD or you have some challenges staying focused, find the challenges staying focused, find the challenges staying focused, find the sweet spot. If that's 3 minutes, 5 sweet spot. If that's 3 minutes, 5 sweet spot. If that's 3 minutes, 5 minutes, 6 minutes, 2 minutes, you can minutes, 6 minutes, 2 minutes, you can minutes, 6 minutes, 2 minutes, you can get a tremendous amount done in 2 get a tremendous amount done in 2 get a tremendous amount done in 2 minutes if you're working uninterrupted minutes if you're working uninterrupted minutes if you're working uninterrupted without distractions. So don't the without distractions. So don't the without distractions. So don't the 15minute as a benchmark is not set in 15minute as a benchmark is not set in 15minute as a benchmark is not set in stone. There are plenty of people who stone. There are plenty of people who stone. There are plenty of people who there's a there's a woman who's a there's a there's a woman who's a there's a there's a woman who's a graduate of our unstuff your life system graduate of our unstuff your life system graduate of our unstuff your life system program. Her name is Sylvia Pedigrew.

program. Her name is Sylvia Pedigrew. program. Her name is Sylvia Pedigrew. Sylvia uh I mean you you don't I don't Sylvia uh I mean you you don't I don't Sylvia uh I mean you you don't I don't expect I know her. That's strange. Okay. expect I know her. That's strange. Okay. expect I know her. That's strange. Okay. The name sounds would be funny if you do The name sounds would be funny if you do The name sounds would be funny if you do know Silia. Sylvia single mom uh working know Silia. Sylvia single mom uh working know Silia. Sylvia single mom uh working two full-time jobs managed to completely two full-time jobs managed to completely two full-time jobs managed to completely declutter her basement in seven minutes declutter her basement in seven minutes declutter her basement in seven minutes a day on her lunch break between those a day on her lunch break between those a day on her lunch break between those two jobs. So, single mom, two full-time two jobs. So, single mom, two full-time two jobs. So, single mom, two full-time jobs, 7 minutes a day, and reclaimed a jobs, 7 minutes a day, and reclaimed a jobs, 7 minutes a day, and reclaimed a basement that used to be open the door, basement that used to be open the door, basement that used to be open the door, throw it down the stairs, don't look, throw it down the stairs, don't look, throw it down the stairs, don't look, and and just it was a huge pile of and and just it was a huge pile of and and just it was a huge pile of chaos, and excavated it, turned it into chaos, and excavated it, turned it into chaos, and excavated it, turned it into a rumpus room so that her and her son a rumpus room so that her and her son a rumpus room so that her and her son could watch movies and hang out could watch movies and hang out could watch movies and hang out together, play video games. She built a together, play video games. She built a together, play video games. She built a home office down there, and it went from home office down there, and it went from home office down there, and it went from being useless space to one of the most being useless space to one of the most being useless space to one of the most used spaces. And she was so successful used spaces. And she was so successful used spaces. And she was so successful at it that then her aunt flew her out to at it that then her aunt flew her out to at it that then her aunt flew her out to St. Louis to do that to her garage St. Louis to do that to her garage St. Louis to do that to her garage because she had seen the progress that because she had seen the progress that because she had seen the progress that Sylvia had made. Right. And so I the Sylvia had made. Right. And so I the Sylvia had made. Right. And so I the story is I don't have enough time. And story is I don't have enough time. And story is I don't have enough time. And the reality is in as few as seven the reality is in as few as seven the reality is in as few as seven minutes a day you can completely reclaim minutes a day you can completely reclaim minutes a day you can completely reclaim a space. I think the other thing leaders a space. I think the other thing leaders a space. I think the other thing leaders might find satisfying at least I do.

might find satisfying at least I do. might find satisfying at least I do. Like I went out before lunch today and Like I went out before lunch today and Like I went out before lunch today and uh cleaned the SUV we're selling. And uh cleaned the SUV we're selling. And uh cleaned the SUV we're selling. And it's one of the only thing I think why it's one of the only thing I think why it's one of the only thing I think why do I like clean cars so much? It's one do I like clean cars so much? It's one do I like clean cars so much? It's one of the only things in my life that goes of the only things in my life that goes of the only things in my life that goes from start to finish complete. It was from start to finish complete. It was from start to finish complete. It was dirty. It was clean. Half an hour later dirty. It was clean. Half an hour later dirty. It was clean. Half an hour later it's done. The same with storing things. it's done. The same with storing things. it's done. The same with storing things. It's like the drawer I organized last It's like the drawer I organized last It's like the drawer I organized last year is still organized today. And year is still organized today. And year is still organized today. And leadership is never that simple. leadership is never that simple. leadership is never that simple. Leadership is, you know, when are you Leadership is, you know, when are you Leadership is, you know, when are you done with people? You're not. When are done with people? You're not. When are done with people? You're not. When are you done with advancing your mission? you done with advancing your mission? you done with advancing your mission? You're not. So if you have those little You're not. So if you have those little You're not. So if you have those little wins that that frees up bandwidth and wins that that frees up bandwidth and wins that that frees up bandwidth and clarity to say, okay, I am good at clarity to say, okay, I am good at clarity to say, okay, I am good at something. I can get that done. So you something. I can get that done. So you something. I can get that done. So you have updated unstuff your life because have updated unstuff your life because have updated unstuff your life because in the what 10 plus years since it was in the what 10 plus years since it was in the what 10 plus years since it was written, 14 14 now we have digital written, 14 14 now we have digital written, 14 14 now we have digital clutter. So I want to I want to at least clutter. So I want to I want to at least clutter. So I want to I want to at least touch on that. But that is a big deal. touch on that. But that is a big deal. touch on that. But that is a big deal. like digital clutter for people used to like digital clutter for people used to like digital clutter for people used to be, you know, Facebook, Twitter, and be, you know, Facebook, Twitter, and be, you know, Facebook, Twitter, and then Instagram came along. It's like then Instagram came along. It's like then Instagram came along. It's like three media platforms. Now we're on 12.

three media platforms. Now we're on 12. three media platforms. Now we're on 12. Like, you know, you got so much to do. Like, you know, you got so much to do. Like, you know, you got so much to do. You've got Slack and a sauna open and You've got Slack and a sauna open and You've got Slack and a sauna open and you're in Chrome and, you know, you're in Chrome and, you know, you're in Chrome and, you know, Riverside to shoot this podcast, but Riverside to shoot this podcast, but Riverside to shoot this podcast, but it's also recording the audio it's also recording the audio it's also recording the audio separately, and I've got all those separately, and I've got all those separately, and I've got all those technical settings. Like, digital technical settings. Like, digital technical settings. Like, digital clutter has really advanced in the last clutter has really advanced in the last clutter has really advanced in the last 10 years. So, what are some of your tips 10 years. So, what are some of your tips 10 years. So, what are some of your tips or advice for digital clutter? or advice for digital clutter? or advice for digital clutter? I would I would I would encourage listeners encourage listeners encourage listeners to make sure that your digital to make sure that your digital to make sure that your digital organization mirrors your physical organization mirrors your physical organization mirrors your physical organization. So, particularly when it organization. So, particularly when it organization. So, particularly when it comes to files, comes to files, comes to files, paper, they're digital, but we'll call paper, they're digital, but we'll call paper, they're digital, but we'll call them paper. Sure. So PDFs, word, you them paper. Sure. So PDFs, word, you them paper. Sure. So PDFs, word, you know, any work product like that. If you know, any work product like that. If you know, any work product like that. If you have a filing system in a physical have a filing system in a physical have a filing system in a physical world, the everything that everything world, the everything that everything world, the everything that everything that's named in a physical world should that's named in a physical world should that's named in a physical world should be the same naming lexicon in the be the same naming lexicon in the be the same naming lexicon in the digital world. We don't call it auto in digital world. We don't call it auto in digital world. We don't call it auto in the drawer, but we call it car on the on the drawer, but we call it car on the on the drawer, but we call it car on the on the computer. Mhm. And in that way that the computer. Mhm. And in that way that the computer. Mhm. And in that way that it is so easy to download things and it is so easy to download things and it is so easy to download things and particularly if you if you're in a space particularly if you if you're in a space particularly if you if you're in a space where audience development marketing is where audience development marketing is where audience development marketing is a part of your job, you might be opting a part of your job, you might be opting a part of your job, you might be opting into all kinds of funnels and doing into all kinds of funnels and doing into all kinds of funnels and doing things to to funnel hack what other things to to funnel hack what other things to to funnel hack what other people are doing and you want to learn people are doing and you want to learn people are doing and you want to learn about what's going on in the world. um about what's going on in the world. um about what's going on in the world. um or you're just you're just interested in or you're just you're just interested in or you're just you're just interested in subject matter and you opt in for subject matter and you opt in for subject matter and you opt in for certain things. I encourage people all

certain things. I encourage people all certain things. I encourage people all the time if it if you're not reading it, the time if it if you're not reading it, the time if it if you're not reading it, unsubscribe. Uh I have two email unsubscribe. Uh I have two email unsubscribe. Uh I have two email addresses, one for subscriptions and one addresses, one for subscriptions and one addresses, one for subscriptions and one for actual correspondence. I don't mix for actual correspondence. I don't mix for actual correspondence. I don't mix and match them. Wow. Uh so so if I don't and match them. Wow. Uh so so if I don't and match them. Wow. Uh so so if I don't open the subscription email box for a open the subscription email box for a open the subscription email box for a month, who cares? It it was not month, who cares? It it was not month, who cares? It it was not anything. It's not critical anything. It's not critical anything. It's not critical communication. Nobody's writing to me. communication. Nobody's writing to me. communication. Nobody's writing to me. These are lists that I've subscribed to These are lists that I've subscribed to These are lists that I've subscribed to and things that I'm doing uh that don't and things that I'm doing uh that don't and things that I'm doing uh that don't matter. Whereas, if you wrote to me and matter. Whereas, if you wrote to me and matter. Whereas, if you wrote to me and said, "Hey, here's some updated said, "Hey, here's some updated said, "Hey, here's some updated information for the podcast." I don't information for the podcast." I don't information for the podcast." I don't want that going I don't want that want that going I don't want that want that going I don't want that getting lost with some flyer for the San getting lost with some flyer for the San getting lost with some flyer for the San Diego Symphony or, you know, for a Diego Symphony or, you know, for a Diego Symphony or, you know, for a recycle program or the building recycle program or the building recycle program or the building newsletter. I don't want that stuff to newsletter. I don't want that stuff to newsletter. I don't want that stuff to obscure obscure obscure um our actual communication between um our actual communication between um our actual communication between another great idea. I've never thought another great idea. I've never thought another great idea. I've never thought about that separate email address for about that separate email address for about that separate email address for subscriptions because I have public subscriptions because I have public subscriptions because I have public private but it's all mixed together. private but it's all mixed together. private but it's all mixed together. Yeah. Wow. And uh and be mindful of just Yeah. Wow. And uh and be mindful of just Yeah. Wow. And uh and be mindful of just downloading stuff. The end of downloading stuff. The end of downloading stuff. The end of downloading it is not just dropping it downloading it is not just dropping it downloading it is not just dropping it in your downloads folder or putting it in your downloads folder or putting it in your downloads folder or putting it on your computer desktop. It's renaming on your computer desktop. It's renaming on your computer desktop. It's renaming it so you know what it is and putting it it so you know what it is and putting it it so you know what it is and putting it where it goes. Going back to your thing where it goes. Going back to your thing where it goes. Going back to your thing about the a complete task and how good about the a complete task and how good about the a complete task and how good it feels when you complete a task. In it feels when you complete a task. In it feels when you complete a task. In the same way that the end of doing the the same way that the end of doing the the same way that the end of doing the laundry is not a basket of clean clothes laundry is not a basket of clean clothes laundry is not a basket of clean clothes on the bedroom floor, but it's when the on the bedroom floor, but it's when the on the bedroom floor, but it's when the basket is empty, the clothes are put basket is empty, the clothes are put basket is empty, the clothes are put back in the drawer, baskets back on top

back in the drawer, baskets back on top back in the drawer, baskets back on top of the dryer, ready for more clean of the dryer, ready for more clean of the dryer, ready for more clean clothes. That's the full arc of that clothes. That's the full arc of that clothes. That's the full arc of that task. The full arc of downloading a file task. The full arc of downloading a file task. The full arc of downloading a file is not just getting it into your is not just getting it into your is not just getting it into your downloads folder. It's finding it, downloads folder. It's finding it, downloads folder. It's finding it, naming it, putting it in a folder with naming it, putting it in a folder with naming it, putting it in a folder with its its its siblings, reading it if you need to read siblings, reading it if you need to read siblings, reading it if you need to read it, or filing it if that's what you're it, or filing it if that's what you're it, or filing it if that's what you're doing with it, rather than just leaving doing with it, rather than just leaving doing with it, rather than just leaving it in a it in a it in a todo folder, which is what so many todo folder, which is what so many todo folder, which is what so many people's download folder becomes. Or people's download folder becomes. Or people's download folder becomes. Or their inbox. What do you think about their inbox. What do you think about their inbox. What do you think about inbox zero? Good idea, bad idea? You inbox zero? Good idea, bad idea? You inbox zero? Good idea, bad idea? You know, in my world, I want to spend the know, in my world, I want to spend the know, in my world, I want to spend the least amount of time with stuff that I least amount of time with stuff that I least amount of time with stuff that I need to to have the quality of life that need to to have the quality of life that need to to have the quality of life that I want. I want. I want. So, if I wanted to So, if I wanted to So, if I wanted to gify my inbox, if that if I got juice gify my inbox, if that if I got juice gify my inbox, if that if I got juice out of that, then I would say go for out of that, then I would say go for out of that, then I would say go for inbox zero. I I have lots of emails that inbox zero. I I have lots of emails that inbox zero. I I have lots of emails that I will probably never read. Uh once a I will probably never read. Uh once a I will probably never read. Uh once a month, once a quarter, I'll go through month, once a quarter, I'll go through month, once a quarter, I'll go through them, scoop them all up, and throw them them, scoop them all up, and throw them them, scoop them all up, and throw them in the garbage. They don't. They don't.

in the garbage. They don't. They don't. in the garbage. They don't. They don't. It's not worth my time to chase It's not worth my time to chase It's not worth my time to chase that. I'd rather email is the it's it's that. I'd rather email is the it's it's that. I'd rather email is the it's it's just a form of communication. It isn't just a form of communication. It isn't just a form of communication. It isn't the only form of communication. And the only form of communication. And the only form of communication. And because I can't control what ends up in because I can't control what ends up in because I can't control what ends up in my inbox. I mean, I I have rules and my inbox. I mean, I I have rules and my inbox. I mean, I I have rules and filters running and I can put some filters running and I can put some filters running and I can put some emails some places, but I get emails emails some places, but I get emails emails some places, but I get emails every day from people who are like, "Oh, every day from people who are like, "Oh, every day from people who are like, "Oh, I want to build you an app. Oh, what I want to build you an app. Oh, what I want to build you an app. Oh, what about this? Oh, here's an investment about this? Oh, here's an investment about this? Oh, here's an investment opportunity. Here's Bitcoin." Whatever. opportunity. Here's Bitcoin." Whatever. opportunity. Here's Bitcoin." Whatever. Right. You know, used to be erectile Right. You know, used to be erectile Right. You know, used to be erectile dysfunction. Now, it's dysfunction. Now, it's dysfunction. Now, it's Bitcoin. It's it's there. I have I can't Bitcoin. It's it's there. I have I can't Bitcoin. It's it's there. I have I can't stop it. Yeah. And I don't wish to play stop it. Yeah. And I don't wish to play stop it. Yeah. And I don't wish to play whack-a-ole with it. It's I It's not whack-a-ole with it. It's I It's not whack-a-ole with it. It's I It's not worth my time. worth my time. worth my time. this is a much better use of my time this is a much better use of my time this is a much better use of my time than trying to get to my inbox down to than trying to get to my inbox down to than trying to get to my inbox down to zero for me. If if it if again if zero for me. If if it if again if zero for me. If if it if again if somebody really loves opening up their somebody really loves opening up their somebody really loves opening up their inbox and there's nothing in it and inbox and there's nothing in it and inbox and there's nothing in it and that's juicy and it and it motivates that's juicy and it and it motivates that's juicy and it and it motivates them to to do something more better, go them to to do something more better, go them to to do something more better, go for it. For me, there's not enough value for it. For me, there's not enough value for it. For me, there's not enough value there. No, that's fair. When it comes to there. No, that's fair. When it comes to there. No, that's fair. When it comes to this is one of the debates we have in this is one of the debates we have in this is one of the debates we have in our company. So, we have Dropbox. It's our company. So, we have Dropbox. It's our company. So, we have Dropbox. It's beautifully organized. everybody knows beautifully organized. everybody knows beautifully organized. everybody knows where everything belongs and then we where everything belongs and then we where everything belongs and then we have uh Google Drive which is a little have uh Google Drive which is a little have uh Google Drive which is a little more chaotic but there's two systems and more chaotic but there's two systems and more chaotic but there's two systems and part of that is you know if it's a word part of that is you know if it's a word part of that is you know if it's a word doc or something like that publishers

doc or something like that publishers doc or something like that publishers still work off word docs it makes sense still work off word docs it makes sense still work off word docs it makes sense to store it inside Dropbox along with a to store it inside Dropbox along with a to store it inside Dropbox along with a lot of other folders from lawyers lot of other folders from lawyers lot of other folders from lawyers accountants etc etc but when it comes to accountants etc etc but when it comes to accountants etc etc but when it comes to Google Docs we're a content creation Google Docs we're a content creation Google Docs we're a content creation company the creation often happens in company the creation often happens in company the creation often happens in Google Docs Google Docs Google Docs What any advice for when you have two What any advice for when you have two What any advice for when you have two systems because we've thought about systems because we've thought about systems because we've thought about consolidating them into one and we just consolidating them into one and we just consolidating them into one and we just haven't pulled the trigger yet. They're haven't pulled the trigger yet. They're haven't pulled the trigger yet. They're not the same. I personally I don't use not the same. I personally I don't use not the same. I personally I don't use Google Drive for storage in the sense in Google Drive for storage in the sense in Google Drive for storage in the sense in the way we use Dropbox as well for the way we use Dropbox as well for the way we use Dropbox as well for permanent assets and uh we use Google permanent assets and uh we use Google permanent assets and uh we use Google Drive as a collaborative tool, right? Drive as a collaborative tool, right? Drive as a collaborative tool, right? That's why we that's why we have it That's why we that's why we have it That's why we that's why we have it because we can collaborate on the same because we can collaborate on the same because we can collaborate on the same document in the same time instead of e document in the same time instead of e document in the same time instead of e and look Microsoft isn't I mean they're and look Microsoft isn't I mean they're and look Microsoft isn't I mean they're slow but they're not stupid. So they slow but they're not stupid. So they slow but they're not stupid. So they eventually figured out oh we need office eventually figured out oh we need office eventually figured out oh we need office 365 to compete with this open suite of 365 to compete with this open suite of 365 to compete with this open suite of of apps that Google has put in the cloud of apps that Google has put in the cloud of apps that Google has put in the cloud because we're losing all of our business because we're losing all of our business because we're losing all of our business because people don't want to email back because people don't want to email back because people don't want to email back Word documents anymore. They want to Word documents anymore. They want to Word documents anymore. They want to collaborate in real industries do. May I collaborate in real industries do. May I collaborate in real industries do. May I just say if you deal with a publisher just say if you deal with a publisher just say if you deal with a publisher it's still on Word. It's like what state it's still on Word. It's like what state it's still on Word. It's like what state are we in? Yeah. But anyway, that's a are we in? Yeah. But anyway, that's a are we in? Yeah. But anyway, that's a that's a separate story.

that's a separate story. that's a separate story. That's a rant. We can talk about that on That's a rant. We can talk about that on That's a rant. We can talk about that on another episode. That's a rant, Andrew. another episode. That's a rant, Andrew. another episode. That's a rant, Andrew. Yeah. Uh yeah. No, I So So we use Google Yeah. Uh yeah. No, I So So we use Google Yeah. Uh yeah. No, I So So we use Google Drive for anything that we're Drive for anything that we're Drive for anything that we're collaborating on where multiple people collaborating on where multiple people collaborating on where multiple people need to have access to the same need to have access to the same need to have access to the same information in real time. Uh once we're information in real time. Uh once we're information in real time. Uh once we're finished with it, we'll typically pull finished with it, we'll typically pull finished with it, we'll typically pull it out of Google Drive. Now it's an it out of Google Drive. Now it's an it out of Google Drive. Now it's an asset and we park it in Dropbox in its asset and we park it in Dropbox in its asset and we park it in Dropbox in its in its folders. We also try to have the in its folders. We also try to have the in its folders. We also try to have the architecture of Google Drive as closely architecture of Google Drive as closely architecture of Google Drive as closely as possible match the architecture of as possible match the architecture of as possible match the architecture of Dropbox so that what we call it in Dropbox so that what we call it in Dropbox so that what we call it in Google Drive, if it's programs and and Google Drive, if it's programs and and Google Drive, if it's programs and and courses, it's also called programs and courses, it's also called programs and courses, it's also called programs and courses in in Dropbox. So that they map courses in in Dropbox. So that they map courses in in Dropbox. So that they map to each other even though the the to each other even though the the to each other even though the the content of each folder is different but content of each folder is different but content of each folder is different but related. They're cousins if not related. They're cousins if not related. They're cousins if not siblings. So my little company's been siblings. So my little company's been siblings. So my little company's been virtual since day one and we had to virtual since day one and we had to virtual since day one and we had to create some rules. So I want to run create some rules. So I want to run create some rules. So I want to run these rules by you and agree, disagree, these rules by you and agree, disagree, these rules by you and agree, disagree, uh improve or provide a completely uh improve or provide a completely uh improve or provide a completely alternate system. But we teach this to alternate system. But we teach this to alternate system. But we teach this to leaders because uh here's what we leaders because uh here's what we leaders because uh here's what we basically do. Anyone within the basically do. Anyone within the basically do. Anyone within the organization is not allowed to email organization is not allowed to email organization is not allowed to email anyone within the organization. We don't anyone within the organization. We don't anyone within the organization. We don't lead by email. Okay, that got a thumbs lead by email. Okay, that got a thumbs lead by email. Okay, that got a thumbs up. Then um basically everything goes up. Then um basically everything goes up. Then um basically everything goes into a sauna for our weekly meeting into a sauna for our weekly meeting into a sauna for our weekly meeting because most of the stuff is not super because most of the stuff is not super because most of the stuff is not super urgent. So if I think of something this urgent. So if I think of something this urgent. So if I think of something this afternoon, I got to talk to Katie about

afternoon, I got to talk to Katie about afternoon, I got to talk to Katie about how am I getting from the conference to how am I getting from the conference to how am I getting from the conference to the the the airport. Historically, you interrupt airport. Historically, you interrupt airport. Historically, you interrupt her. Hey Katie, I need to figure out how her. Hey Katie, I need to figure out how her. Hey Katie, I need to figure out how to get to the concert at the airport. to get to the concert at the airport. to get to the concert at the airport. Well, it's not due now. That's two weeks Well, it's not due now. That's two weeks Well, it's not due now. That's two weeks down the road. I just thought about it. down the road. I just thought about it. down the road. I just thought about it. So, go into a sauna for a one-on-one. I So, go into a sauna for a one-on-one. I So, go into a sauna for a one-on-one. I had a task that says, "How do I get from had a task that says, "How do I get from had a task that says, "How do I get from Dallas to the airport?" blah blah blah, Dallas to the airport?" blah blah blah, Dallas to the airport?" blah blah blah, whatever, you know? So, I do that and whatever, you know? So, I do that and whatever, you know? So, I do that and then it just sits there and it's parked then it just sits there and it's parked then it just sits there and it's parked until the meeting. If it can't wait until the meeting. If it can't wait until the meeting. If it can't wait until our next weekly meeting, it's a until our next weekly meeting, it's a until our next weekly meeting, it's a Slack question and the expectation is it Slack question and the expectation is it Slack question and the expectation is it gets answered either by lunch or by end gets answered either by lunch or by end gets answered either by lunch or by end of day. So, within a few hours, you're of day. So, within a few hours, you're of day. So, within a few hours, you're going to hear a response to that. going to hear a response to that. going to hear a response to that. Um, so that's basically it. you're not Um, so that's basically it. you're not Um, so that's basically it. you're not allowed to email. Now, if we're setting allowed to email. Now, if we're setting allowed to email. Now, if we're setting up this podcast interview, then I'm up this podcast interview, then I'm up this podcast interview, then I'm going to email you. The team's going to going to email you. The team's going to going to email you. The team's going to be in on that to set it up. But that's be in on that to set it up. But that's be in on that to set it up. But that's external communication, not internal external communication, not internal external communication, not internal communication. Um, a text is if it can't communication. Um, a text is if it can't communication. Um, a text is if it can't wait for Slack, and a phone call is a wait for Slack, and a phone call is a wait for Slack, and a phone call is a nuclear emergency. It's like, I've got nuclear emergency. It's like, I've got nuclear emergency. It's like, I've got this interview with Andrew in 2 minutes this interview with Andrew in 2 minutes this interview with Andrew in 2 minutes and I can't find the link. What do I do?

and I can't find the link. What do I do? and I can't find the link. What do I do? So, basically, no email. Um, try to wait So, basically, no email. Um, try to wait So, basically, no email. Um, try to wait for the weekly meeting in a sauna. Just for the weekly meeting in a sauna. Just for the weekly meeting in a sauna. Just park it. it's a parking lot. Slack for park it. it's a parking lot. Slack for park it. it's a parking lot. Slack for something that can wait a few hours. something that can wait a few hours. something that can wait a few hours. Text if you kind of need an answer now. Text if you kind of need an answer now. Text if you kind of need an answer now. Phone call if it's like no, I need it Phone call if it's like no, I need it Phone call if it's like no, I need it right now. And the number of phone calls right now. And the number of phone calls right now. And the number of phone calls and texts we send back and and texts we send back and and texts we send back and forth. Texts a couple a week. Phone forth. Texts a couple a week. Phone forth. Texts a couple a week. Phone calls couple a month maybe. What do you calls couple a month maybe. What do you calls couple a month maybe. What do you think of that kind of digital think of that kind of digital think of that kind of digital protocol? Ringing the bell. All right. I protocol? Ringing the bell. All right. I protocol? Ringing the bell. All right. I think it's awesome. I think it's think it's awesome. I think it's think it's awesome. I think it's awesome. I uh we do something similar awesome. I uh we do something similar awesome. I uh we do something similar here. Yeah. Do you and you can you can here. Yeah. Do you and you can you can here. Yeah. Do you and you can you can vary the rules but the bottom line is vary the rules but the bottom line is vary the rules but the bottom line is you're not leading by email. So you you you're not leading by email. So you you you're not leading by email. So you you have that rule. No email internal no have that rule. No email internal no have that rule. No email internal no internal communication happens via internal communication happens via internal communication happens via email. It's the worst. Uh and that will email. It's the worst. Uh and that will email. It's the worst. Uh and that will for any of your listeners that will for any of your listeners that will for any of your listeners that will improve productivity by 20 to 30% improve productivity by 20 to 30% improve productivity by 20 to 30% immediately. That's quantifiable. Wow. immediately. That's quantifiable. Wow. immediately. That's quantifiable. Wow. Yeah. If you can migrate to Slack or Yeah. If you can migrate to Slack or Yeah. If you can migrate to Slack or Teams. Now, you have to set up the Teams. Now, you have to set up the Teams. Now, you have to set up the proper channels on on those platforms.

proper channels on on those platforms. proper channels on on those platforms. It isn't a free-for-all where people It isn't a free-for-all where people It isn't a free-for-all where people just because without a protocol, an SOP just because without a protocol, an SOP just because without a protocol, an SOP for using those for using those for using those tools, often people complain about them tools, often people complain about them tools, often people complain about them failing because they don't create failing because they don't create failing because they don't create distinct channels and people and it just distinct channels and people and it just distinct channels and people and it just becomes a free-for-all and everybody's becomes a free-for-all and everybody's becomes a free-for-all and everybody's talking to everybody and it's just talking to everybody and it's just talking to everybody and it's just noise. And the same BCC behavior in noise. And the same BCC behavior in noise. And the same BCC behavior in email then translates into Slack where email then translates into Slack where email then translates into Slack where people are tagging people that don't people are tagging people that don't people are tagging people that don't need to know about it. It's in the need to know about it. It's in the need to know about it. It's in the channel if you need to find it. You can channel if you need to find it. You can channel if you need to find it. You can go look for it in that channel, but you go look for it in that channel, but you go look for it in that channel, but you didn't need to know. So, I don't need to didn't need to know. So, I don't need to didn't need to know. So, I don't need to tag you. And if I am tagging you, then tag you. And if I am tagging you, then tag you. And if I am tagging you, then I'll typically if I'm not writing to I'll typically if I'm not writing to I'll typically if I'm not writing to you, I'll typically tag you and just say you, I'll typically tag you and just say you, I'll typically tag you and just say FYI, just so that you know that it FYI, just so that you know that it FYI, just so that you know that it happened should you want to go looking happened should you want to go looking happened should you want to go looking for it. But it's nothing. there's no for it. But it's nothing. there's no for it. But it's nothing. there's no action for you, right? Um, we also in action for you, right? Um, we also in action for you, right? Um, we also in our Slack, we create a headline for our Slack, we create a headline for our Slack, we create a headline for every thread inside the channel so that every thread inside the channel so that every thread inside the channel so that you know exactly what that thread's you know exactly what that thread's you know exactly what that thread's about. Um, working on the MCO workbook, about. Um, working on the MCO workbook, about. Um, working on the MCO workbook, right? And so now that's an uppercase, right? And so now that's an uppercase, right? And so now that's an uppercase, it's bold, and so at a glance, we also it's bold, and so at a glance, we also it's bold, and so at a glance, we also know that this thread is about this know that this thread is about this know that this thread is about this particular particular particular subtopic. No, that's really helpful. any subtopic. No, that's really helpful. any subtopic. No, that's really helpful. any other tips for leaders? Because what I other tips for leaders? Because what I other tips for leaders? Because what I find when I get into this kind of find when I get into this kind of find when I get into this kind of conversation, we teach it in the course conversation, we teach it in the course conversation, we teach it in the course uh the art of team leadership, but vast uh the art of team leadership, but vast uh the art of team leadership, but vast majority of people I talk to one-on-one majority of people I talk to one-on-one majority of people I talk to one-on-one are still leading by email. It's like

are still leading by email. It's like are still leading by email. It's like get out of your inbox. Get out of your get out of your inbox. Get out of your get out of your inbox. Get out of your inbox immediately. It's just it's a game inbox immediately. It's just it's a game inbox immediately. It's just it's a game changer. Yeah. It's an external changer. Yeah. It's an external changer. Yeah. It's an external communication device, not internal only. communication device, not internal only. communication device, not internal only. And it goes back to that idea of inbox And it goes back to that idea of inbox And it goes back to that idea of inbox zero. If it's only for external communication, I'm never going to miss communication, I'm never going to miss something from my team or somebody I'm something from my team or somebody I'm something from my team or somebody I'm collaborating with because that's in collaborating with because that's in collaborating with because that's in Slack. Slack. Slack. And it means that it's easier to sift And it means that it's easier to sift And it means that it's easier to sift through correspondence from external through correspondence from external through correspondence from external people that I want to talk to versus people that I want to talk to versus people that I want to talk to versus junk. What about texting people? Do you junk. What about texting people? Do you junk. What about texting people? Do you have rules? We generally, unless it's an have rules? We generally, unless it's an have rules? We generally, unless it's an emergency, we don't text after office emergency, we don't text after office emergency, we don't text after office hours. Like if I'm And usually emergency hours. Like if I'm And usually emergency hours. Like if I'm And usually emergency would be I'm traveling somewhere and would be I'm traveling somewhere and would be I'm traveling somewhere and something went wrong, not like I just something went wrong, not like I just something went wrong, not like I just had this idea. Oh yeah. I Well, even I had this idea. Oh yeah. I Well, even I had this idea. Oh yeah. I Well, even I mean I wouldn't even it would be it mean I wouldn't even it would be it mean I wouldn't even it would be it would really have to be a a true would really have to be a a true would really have to be a a true emergency for me to text my assistant emergency for me to text my assistant emergency for me to text my assistant after after after hours when even when I'm on the road. I hours when even when I'm on the road. I hours when even when I'm on the road. I mean, I would figure it out and then I mean, I would figure it out and then I mean, I would figure it out and then I would slack her and say, "Hey, FYI, couldn't find the couldn't find the uh couldn't find the couldn't find the uh the notification for the Uber or for the the notification for the Uber or for the the notification for the Uber or for the hotel. Figured it out, but make sure hotel. Figured it out, but make sure hotel. Figured it out, but make sure that it make sure that it's part that that it make sure that it's part that that it make sure that it's part that let's update the SOP so that this is let's update the SOP so that this is let's update the SOP so that this is cured going forward. That's fair. Yeah.

cured going forward. That's fair. Yeah. cured going forward. That's fair. Yeah. So, uh I just I mean I would literally So, uh I just I mean I would literally So, uh I just I mean I would literally have to be bleeding out for me to bother have to be bleeding out for me to bother have to be bleeding out for me to bother her off hours. I I would solve it myself her off hours. I I would solve it myself her off hours. I I would solve it myself and then and then um and then retrofit and then and then um and then retrofit and then and then um and then retrofit it. solve, you know, go backwards and it. solve, you know, go backwards and it. solve, you know, go backwards and figure out where was the dropout, what figure out where was the dropout, what figure out where was the dropout, what didn't happen. I think that's a good didn't happen. I think that's a good didn't happen. I think that's a good lesson particularly for church leaders lesson particularly for church leaders lesson particularly for church leaders where there's sort of a family vibe that where there's sort of a family vibe that where there's sort of a family vibe that everybody's on all the time and you everybody's on all the time and you everybody's on all the time and you don't keep people along. You don't keep don't keep people along. You don't keep don't keep people along. You don't keep great people a long time if the only great people a long time if the only great people a long time if the only break you get is when you're asleep at break you get is when you're asleep at break you get is when you're asleep at night like that. I mean, I appreciate night like that. I mean, I appreciate night like that. I mean, I appreciate missiondriven work and still it's it's missiondriven work and still it's it's missiondriven work and still it's it's just it's not just it's not just it's not uh be self-reliant. Exactly. Again, if uh be self-reliant. Exactly. Again, if uh be self-reliant. Exactly. Again, if you're bleeding out, call 911. If you're you're bleeding out, call 911. If you're you're bleeding out, call 911. If you're not bleeding out, solve the problem. not bleeding out, solve the problem. not bleeding out, solve the problem. Yeah. Your assistant probably is not Yeah. Your assistant probably is not Yeah. Your assistant probably is not going to fly there to treat you. Uh going to fly there to treat you. Uh going to fly there to treat you. Uh that's a good point. Nor is she nor Nor that's a good point. Nor is she nor Nor that's a good point. Nor is she nor Nor would I expect her if if for some reason would I expect her if if for some reason would I expect her if if for some reason we didn't book the hotel or the you we didn't book the hotel or the you we didn't book the hotel or the you know, the car wasn't there, I'd get in a know, the car wasn't there, I'd get in a know, the car wasn't there, I'd get in a car. I'm not I don't have a way of car. I'm not I don't have a way of car. I'm not I don't have a way of pinging her saying, "Hey, book me a car.

pinging her saying, "Hey, book me a car. pinging her saying, "Hey, book me a car. I'm standing at the curb at the airport. I'm standing at the curb at the airport. I'm standing at the curb at the airport. I'm going to get in a car." If if you I'm going to get in a car." If if you I'm going to get in a car." If if you know, if there's if there's a financial know, if there's if there's a financial know, if there's if there's a financial consequence because she did book the car consequence because she did book the car consequence because she did book the car but didn't give me the thing, then we'll but didn't give me the thing, then we'll but didn't give me the thing, then we'll figure out how we're either going to get figure out how we're either going to get figure out how we're either going to get a refund or solve the problem or a refund or solve the problem or a refund or solve the problem or whatever. But in those moments, let's whatever. But in those moments, let's whatever. But in those moments, let's solve the problem. That's such good solve the problem. That's such good solve the problem. That's such good advice. Yeah. Andrew, what have we not advice. Yeah. Andrew, what have we not advice. Yeah. Andrew, what have we not talked about that we should talk about talked about that we should talk about talked about that we should talk about for leaders that would help them? I for leaders that would help them? I for leaders that would help them? I thought this was great conversation. I'm thought this was great conversation. I'm thought this was great conversation. I'm like even more motivated to finish that like even more motivated to finish that like even more motivated to finish that 20%. Whatever a gap there is, I want to 20%. Whatever a gap there is, I want to 20%. Whatever a gap there is, I want to get it get it get it done. Well, I would, you know, I think done. Well, I would, you know, I think done. Well, I would, you know, I think it's that thing of eating your own dog it's that thing of eating your own dog it's that thing of eating your own dog food and um uh not letting yourself off food and um uh not letting yourself off food and um uh not letting yourself off the the the hook because you're busy, right? Right. hook because you're busy, right? Right. hook because you're busy, right? Right. I mean, I wrote a book called It Calling I mean, I wrote a book called It Calling I mean, I wrote a book called It Calling BS I'm Busy for that reason because I BS I'm Busy for that reason because I BS I'm Busy for that reason because I think it's a it's it becomes in the think it's a it's it becomes in the think it's a it's it becomes in the theater we call it a lazy. It's a vocal theater we call it a lazy. It's a vocal theater we call it a lazy. It's a vocal tick that um that people you just tick that um that people you just tick that um that people you just unconsciously, oh, I'm busy. Oh, I'm too unconsciously, oh, I'm busy. Oh, I'm too unconsciously, oh, I'm busy. Oh, I'm too busy. Oh, I I would totally do that, but busy. Oh, I I would totally do that, but busy. Oh, I I would totally do that, but I'm too busy. Well, that's either either I'm too busy. Well, that's either either I'm too busy. Well, that's either either it's it's a priority problem. You aren't it's it's a priority problem. You aren't it's it's a priority problem. You aren't prioritizing things accurately.

prioritizing things accurately. prioritizing things accurately. uh or it's a it's a um it is a a uh or it's a it's a um it is a a uh or it's a it's a um it is a a workflow issue in that there's too much workflow issue in that there's too much workflow issue in that there's too much demand on your time in which case it's a demand on your time in which case it's a demand on your time in which case it's a delegation delegation delegation problem. So, uh, if you're if you problem. So, uh, if you're if you problem. So, uh, if you're if you have certainly in in your industry, if have certainly in in your industry, if have certainly in in your industry, if we're thinking about again missiondriven we're thinking about again missiondriven we're thinking about again missiondriven perhaps, you know, spiritually driven perhaps, you know, spiritually driven perhaps, you know, spiritually driven uh uh uh uh work, there's always more to do than work, there's always more to do than there will be there will be there will be time. And chances are you are both a time. And chances are you are both a time. And chances are you are both a perfectionist and a people pleaser, perfectionist and a people pleaser, perfectionist and a people pleaser, which is a potent double winner. That's which is a potent double winner. That's which is a potent double winner. That's toxic. Yeah, that'll kill you. And so toxic. Yeah, that'll kill you. And so toxic. Yeah, that'll kill you. And so your desire to please everybody is your desire to please everybody is your desire to please everybody is perhaps perhaps perhaps pathological or neur, you know, or um pathological or neur, you know, or um pathological or neur, you know, or um neurotic. And that's an opportunity, you neurotic. And that's an opportunity, you neurotic. And that's an opportunity, you know, physician, heal thyself. figure know, physician, heal thyself. figure know, physician, heal thyself. figure out what's going on there that's keeping out what's going on there that's keeping out what's going on there that's keeping you in that loop of, you know, they you in that loop of, you know, they you in that loop of, you know, they can't survive without me. You know, you can't survive without me. You know, you can't survive without me. You know, you might be a representation of God on the might be a representation of God on the might be a representation of God on the planet, but you aren't God. That's a planet, but you aren't God. That's a planet, but you aren't God. That's a good point. So, you can you can release good point. So, you can you can release good point. So, you can you can release the need to solve all problems at all the need to solve all problems at all the need to solve all problems at all times. You are you are a representative.

times. You are you are a representative. times. You are you are a representative. You are not the You are not the You are not the CEO. Um, and so there's that piece of CEO. Um, and so there's that piece of CEO. Um, and so there's that piece of it. And then the perfectionism is what's it. And then the perfectionism is what's it. And then the perfectionism is what's often preventing people from delegating often preventing people from delegating often preventing people from delegating is by the time I explain it to you, I is by the time I explain it to you, I is by the time I explain it to you, I could have done it three times. That's could have done it three times. That's could have done it three times. That's only true the first time. Once I train only true the first time. Once I train only true the first time. Once I train you and teach you how to do it, I never you and teach you how to do it, I never you and teach you how to do it, I never have to do it again. It it goes back to have to do it again. It it goes back to have to do it again. It it goes back to that idea of, you know, you eat for a that idea of, you know, you eat for a that idea of, you know, you eat for a day. If I give you a fish, you eat for a day. If I give you a fish, you eat for a day. If I give you a fish, you eat for a lifetime. If I teach you to fish, it lifetime. If I teach you to fish, it lifetime. If I teach you to fish, it will take me longer to teach you how to will take me longer to teach you how to will take me longer to teach you how to fish than to just give you a fish fish than to just give you a fish fish than to just give you a fish once. But once you know how to fish, you once. But once you know how to fish, you once. But once you know how to fish, you are self- sustaining. And if really are self- sustaining. And if really are self- sustaining. And if really that's what I'm about is is curing the that's what I'm about is is curing the that's what I'm about is is curing the world, I ought to be willing to invest world, I ought to be willing to invest world, I ought to be willing to invest the time to teach you to fish. The more the time to teach you to fish. The more the time to teach you to fish. The more fishermen we have, the less mouths we fishermen we have, the less mouths we fishermen we have, the less mouths we have to feed. Wow. Well, Andrew, I got have to feed. Wow. Well, Andrew, I got have to feed. Wow. Well, Andrew, I got to I got to thank you for your work. to I got to thank you for your work. to I got to thank you for your work. It's made a huge difference in my life, It's made a huge difference in my life, It's made a huge difference in my life, as listeners may or may not be able to as listeners may or may not be able to as listeners may or may not be able to tell. Uh, you've definitely got a brand tell. Uh, you've definitely got a brand tell. Uh, you've definitely got a brand ambassador in me and it's just made my ambassador in me and it's just made my ambassador in me and it's just made my day job easier because there's less to day job easier because there's less to day job easier because there's less to think about beyond that. Um, so Unstuff think about beyond that. Um, so Unstuff think about beyond that. Um, so Unstuff Your Life, it's updated for Your Life, it's updated for Your Life, it's updated for 2025. Got a brand new version, lots on 2025. Got a brand new version, lots on 2025. Got a brand new version, lots on digital clutter and everything. If digital clutter and everything. If digital clutter and everything. If people want to follow or track with you people want to follow or track with you people want to follow or track with you online, where's the best place?

Andrewmelon.com.mel.com. Andrewmelon.com Andrewmelon.com.mel.com. Andrewmelon.com is the easiest way to find me. Great. is the easiest way to find me. Great. is the easiest way to find me. Great. Well, Andrew, thank you. It's my Well, Andrew, thank you. It's my Well, Andrew, thank you. It's my pleasure, Carrie. Thanks so much for pleasure, Carrie. Thanks so much for pleasure, Carrie. Thanks so much for having me.