Are You Losing Money Because Of Poor SERVICE?

If I call a a company and I don't get If I call a a company and I don't get somebody live, that to me is like strike somebody live, that to me is like strike somebody live, that to me is like strike one. But strike two is if I speak to one. But strike two is if I speak to one. But strike two is if I speak to somebody, I they the experience needs to somebody, I they the experience needs to somebody, I they the experience needs to be a wow. Like if they are super be a wow. Like if they are super be a wow. Like if they are super friendly, I it it is it makes that friendly, I it it is it makes that friendly, I it it is it makes that business stand out in a real big way. business stand out in a real big way. business stand out in a real big way. And so this is where for us it came down And so this is where for us it came down And so this is where for us it came down to if we if we miss one time that can be to if we if we miss one time that can be to if we if we miss one time that can be tens of thousands of dollars that we tens of thousands of dollars that we tens of thousands of dollars that we could lose out on. And so not only that, could lose out on. And so not only that, could lose out on. And so not only that, it wrecks our brand as well. Welcome to it wrecks our brand as well. Welcome to it wrecks our brand as well. Welcome to the Carrie New Hoff Leadership Podcast the Carrie New Hoff Leadership Podcast the Carrie New Hoff Leadership Podcast on YouTube. Hey, today Mark Ferris. How on YouTube. Hey, today Mark Ferris. How on YouTube. Hey, today Mark Ferris. How do you become number one in your field? do you become number one in your field? do you become number one in your field? So, whatever you happen to be doing, So, whatever you happen to be doing, So, whatever you happen to be doing, what is the key to actual success? Very what is the key to actual success? Very what is the key to actual success? Very few people I know have done it better few people I know have done it better few people I know have done it better than Mark Ferris. I think you're really than Mark Ferris. I think you're really than Mark Ferris. I think you're really going to enjoy this episode. Hey, like, going to enjoy this episode. Hey, like, going to enjoy this episode. Hey, like, subscribe, and leave a comment to join subscribe, and leave a comment to join subscribe, and leave a comment to join the conversation. and we will jump right the conversation. and we will jump right the conversation. and we will jump right into my conversation with Mark Ferris into my conversation with Mark Ferris into my conversation with Mark Ferris after a word from today's Trusted after a word from today's Trusted after a word from today's Trusted Partners. Today's episode is brought to Partners. Today's episode is brought to Partners. Today's episode is brought to you by the Art of Leadership Academy.

you by the Art of Leadership Academy. you by the Art of Leadership Academy. So, if you're a church leader and you So, if you're a church leader and you So, if you're a church leader and you really want to reach your community more really want to reach your community more really want to reach your community more effectively, if you want to preach effectively, if you want to preach effectively, if you want to preach better, if you want to lead stronger, better, if you want to lead stronger, better, if you want to lead stronger, because you know you do, then I've got because you know you do, then I've got because you know you do, then I've got the Art of Leadership Academy. Inside of the Art of Leadership Academy. Inside of the Art of Leadership Academy. Inside of the academy, here's what you're going to the academy, here's what you're going to the academy, here's what you're going to get. You're going to get expert get. You're going to get expert get. You're going to get expert guidance, proven strategies, and guidance, proven strategies, and guidance, proven strategies, and practical tools to equip yourself and practical tools to equip yourself and practical tools to equip yourself and your ministry, and access to all 10 of your ministry, and access to all 10 of your ministry, and access to all 10 of my leadership and preaching courses. And my leadership and preaching courses. And my leadership and preaching courses. And when you sign up today, here's what when you sign up today, here's what when you sign up today, here's what you're going to get instant access to. you're going to get instant access to. you're going to get instant access to. Practical workshops to get quick wins Practical workshops to get quick wins Practical workshops to get quick wins under your belt in less than 30 minutes. under your belt in less than 30 minutes. under your belt in less than 30 minutes. 30 minutes from now, boom, you're going 30 minutes from now, boom, you're going 30 minutes from now, boom, you're going to lead a better team, you're going to to lead a better team, you're going to to lead a better team, you're going to uh communicate better, uh, etc., etc. uh communicate better, uh, etc., etc. uh communicate better, uh, etc., etc. You're going to have also live monthly You're going to have also live monthly You're going to have also live monthly coaching calls with me and access to a coaching calls with me and access to a coaching calls with me and access to a vibrant community of thousands of church vibrant community of thousands of church vibrant community of thousands of church leaders. Plus, you'll have new tools and leaders. Plus, you'll have new tools and leaders. Plus, you'll have new tools and resources that are added every single resources that are added every single resources that are added every single month. So, think of it as having a month. So, think of it as having a month. So, think of it as having a personal coach in your corner 24/7. It's personal coach in your corner 24/7. It's personal coach in your corner 24/7. It's the place that you can fill the gaps the place that you can fill the gaps the place that you can fill the gaps left in your leadership. So, if you're left in your leadership. So, if you're left in your leadership. So, if you're serious about your growth and you want serious about your growth and you want serious about your growth and you want to take your leadership to the next to take your leadership to the next to take your leadership to the next level, head to the level, head to the level, head to the arttoofleershipacademy.com or simply arttoofleershipacademy.com or simply arttoofleershipacademy.com or simply click the link in the description of click the link in the description of click the link in the description of this episode. It costs less than a cup this episode. It costs less than a cup this episode. It costs less than a cup of coffee a day. You'll see results in of coffee a day. You'll see results in of coffee a day. You'll see results in no time. So, click the link in the no time. So, click the link in the no time. So, click the link in the description and join today. I can't wait description and join today. I can't wait description and join today. I can't wait to see you inside. This episode is to see you inside. This episode is to see you inside. This episode is brought to you by Glue. Now, here's brought to you by Glue. Now, here's brought to you by Glue. Now, here's something you might not know. Did you

something you might not know. Did you something you might not know. Did you know that moving is actually one of know that moving is actually one of know that moving is actually one of life's most stressful events? I haven't life's most stressful events? I haven't life's most stressful events? I haven't moved in a long time, but for those of moved in a long time, but for those of moved in a long time, but for those of you who have, it's stressful. But here's you who have, it's stressful. But here's you who have, it's stressful. But here's the upside. It also opens the door to the upside. It also opens the door to the upside. It also opens the door to new beginnings, to fresh starts, and to new beginnings, to fresh starts, and to new beginnings, to fresh starts, and to meaningful connection. With Glue Plus, meaningful connection. With Glue Plus, meaningful connection. With Glue Plus, you can meet new movers in your you can meet new movers in your you can meet new movers in your community, right where they are through community, right where they are through community, right where they are through the New Mover program. Every month, Glue the New Mover program. Every month, Glue the New Mover program. Every month, Glue Plus allows you to send 50 personalized Plus allows you to send 50 personalized Plus allows you to send 50 personalized postcards to new residents who have just postcards to new residents who have just postcards to new residents who have just moved into your area. You can welcome moved into your area. You can welcome moved into your area. You can welcome them. You can invite them to your them. You can invite them to your them. You can invite them to your service and you can make your church service and you can make your church service and you can make your church their new home. No printing, no mailing, their new home. No printing, no mailing, their new home. No printing, no mailing, no hassle. Just pick your routes and no hassle. Just pick your routes and no hassle. Just pick your routes and Glue handles the rest. And with a QR Glue handles the rest. And with a QR Glue handles the rest. And with a QR code on your welcome mailer, you can see code on your welcome mailer, you can see code on your welcome mailer, you can see neighbors who can text you and they can neighbors who can text you and they can neighbors who can text you and they can connect with you even before they step connect with you even before they step connect with you even before they step foot in your church. Thousands of foot in your church. Thousands of foot in your church. Thousands of churches are already using the new mover churches are already using the new mover churches are already using the new mover program to grow their community. Now you program to grow their community. Now you program to grow their community. Now you can join them. Go to can join them. Go to can join them. Go to glue.us/glue plus. That's glus/glueplus and start welcoming new glus/glueplus and start welcoming new families today. Mark, I've been looking families today. Mark, I've been looking families today. Mark, I've been looking forward to this day for a long time.

forward to this day for a long time. forward to this day for a long time. Finally. Welcome. Welcome to the Finally. Welcome. Welcome to the Finally. Welcome. Welcome to the podcast. Great to be here, Gary. Yeah. podcast. Great to be here, Gary. Yeah. podcast. Great to be here, Gary. Yeah. So, very few people I know are more So, very few people I know are more So, very few people I know are more motivated than you are. I got a pretty motivated than you are. I got a pretty motivated than you are. I got a pretty wide circle and you know we lived in the wide circle and you know we lived in the wide circle and you know we lived in the same community for many years got to same community for many years got to same community for many years got to know each other quite well and you are know each other quite well and you are know each other quite well and you are so focused on follow through get results so focused on follow through get results so focused on follow through get results and it's amazing and you're what barely and it's amazing and you're what barely and it's amazing and you're what barely past 40 is that right? Yeah 42 now. My past 40 is that right? Yeah 42 now. My past 40 is that right? Yeah 42 now. My wife likes to let me know that I'm I'm a wife likes to let me know that I'm I'm a wife likes to let me know that I'm I'm a whole year older than her even though I whole year older than her even though I whole year older than her even though I was uh three months. I'm December she's was uh three months. I'm December she's was uh three months. I'm December she's March March March but on the calendar that's how it works but on the calendar that's how it works but on the calendar that's how it works out. I I would like to go back to sort out. I I would like to go back to sort out. I I would like to go back to sort of your origin story in leadership of your origin story in leadership of your origin story in leadership because like a lot of people, you did because like a lot of people, you did because like a lot of people, you did not think that you would be doing real not think that you would be doing real not think that you would be doing real estate and wealth management and estate and wealth management and estate and wealth management and investing, you know, in real estate for investing, you know, in real estate for investing, you know, in real estate for your life. You had a very different plan your life. You had a very different plan your life. You had a very different plan for your life, but what happened? How for your life, but what happened? How for your life, but what happened? How how did that unfold? Yeah. So, I grew up how did that unfold? Yeah. So, I grew up how did that unfold? Yeah. So, I grew up on a farm playing hockey. And so, my dad on a farm playing hockey. And so, my dad on a farm playing hockey. And so, my dad would go out to the barn and he would would go out to the barn and he would would go out to the barn and he would Classic Canadian story, dude. Yeah.

Classic Canadian story, dude. Yeah. Classic Canadian story, dude. Yeah. North of Toronto, right? You got to play North of Toronto, right? You got to play North of Toronto, right? You got to play hockey. And was that in Nisville, by the hockey. And was that in Nisville, by the hockey. And was that in Nisville, by the way? Just Yeah. Just a little town way? Just Yeah. Just a little town way? Just Yeah. Just a little town called Cookstown, so about an hour north called Cookstown, so about an hour north called Cookstown, so about an hour north of Toronto. And uh my dad would flood of Toronto. And uh my dad would flood of Toronto. And uh my dad would flood the rink and I'd go out every night and the rink and I'd go out every night and the rink and I'd go out every night and I would practice shooting. And you know, I would practice shooting. And you know, I would practice shooting. And you know, I wasn't always the most skilled guy, I wasn't always the most skilled guy, I wasn't always the most skilled guy, but I just worked really hard and worked but I just worked really hard and worked but I just worked really hard and worked my way up through the ranks and played my way up through the ranks and played my way up through the ranks and played junior. And then I played a couple junior. And then I played a couple junior. And then I played a couple seasons over in Sweden. And I finished seasons over in Sweden. And I finished seasons over in Sweden. And I finished up down in the Central League in the US up down in the Central League in the US up down in the Central League in the US in in Texas. And so I was a couple in in Texas. And so I was a couple in in Texas. And so I was a couple leagues below the NHL. So, I was never leagues below the NHL. So, I was never leagues below the NHL. So, I was never at that top there. But I walked in one at that top there. But I walked in one at that top there. But I walked in one day, I was recently married. I walked in day, I was recently married. I walked in day, I was recently married. I walked in and the coach called me aside and said, and the coach called me aside and said, and the coach called me aside and said, "Hey, Mark, we put you on waivers." And "Hey, Mark, we put you on waivers." And "Hey, Mark, we put you on waivers." And so, here's a couple of plane tickets so, here's a couple of plane tickets so, here's a couple of plane tickets back for you and your wife and it's it's back for you and your wife and it's it's back for you and your wife and it's it's actually flying out in a in in a few actually flying out in a in in a few actually flying out in a in in a few hours, so you're going to need to kind hours, so you're going to need to kind hours, so you're going to need to kind of hustle. I went in the change room and of hustle. I went in the change room and of hustle. I went in the change room and my stuff was in a garbage bag. So, my stuff was in a garbage bag. So, my stuff was in a garbage bag. So, picked up that garbage bag on my picked up that garbage bag on my picked up that garbage bag on my equipment, went back, told Joanna, and equipment, went back, told Joanna, and equipment, went back, told Joanna, and we flew back. And I was living, we we flew back. And I was living, we we flew back. And I was living, we actually stayed at her parents house for actually stayed at her parents house for actually stayed at her parents house for the short while while I was trying to the short while while I was trying to the short while while I was trying to figure out what I was going to do. And figure out what I was going to do. And figure out what I was going to do. And Joanna said to me one day, she said, Joanna said to me one day, she said, Joanna said to me one day, she said, "Mark, you know, you don't have to keep "Mark, you know, you don't have to keep "Mark, you know, you don't have to keep playing hockey if you don't want it." I playing hockey if you don't want it." I playing hockey if you don't want it." I was like, "Yeah, I don't want it." It was like, "Yeah, I don't want it." It was like, "Yeah, I don't want it." It was like this these blinders, you know, was like this these blinders, you know, was like this these blinders, you know, these blindfolds fell off and I was these blindfolds fell off and I was these blindfolds fell off and I was like, "I want to get into real estate."

like, "I want to get into real estate." like, "I want to get into real estate." I always loved real estate investing. I I always loved real estate investing. I I always loved real estate investing. I thought, "What better way to learn about thought, "What better way to learn about thought, "What better way to learn about real estate investing than to become an real estate investing than to become an real estate investing than to become an agent?" And then six months later, had agent?" And then six months later, had agent?" And then six months later, had my license, jumped in. And Carrie, I my license, jumped in. And Carrie, I my license, jumped in. And Carrie, I mean, you probably know this about me, mean, you probably know this about me, mean, you probably know this about me, but I'm more of an in-word. I'm not a but I'm more of an in-word. I'm not a but I'm more of an in-word. I'm not a big Yeah, you are actually quite like big Yeah, you are actually quite like big Yeah, you are actually quite like you have a big public persona. Anybody you have a big public persona. Anybody you have a big public persona. Anybody who lives north of Toronto, your signs who lives north of Toronto, your signs who lives north of Toronto, your signs are everywhere, but you are a quiet guy. are everywhere, but you are a quiet guy. are everywhere, but you are a quiet guy. Like, you really are. Yeah. And so, this Like, you really are. Yeah. And so, this Like, you really are. Yeah. And so, this was something that getting out and was something that getting out and was something that getting out and talking to people, I was like super talking to people, I was like super talking to people, I was like super uncomfortable with, but we had to put uncomfortable with, but we had to put uncomfortable with, but we had to put food on the table. And we got to a point food on the table. And we got to a point food on the table. And we got to a point where we were $10,000 in credit card where we were $10,000 in credit card where we were $10,000 in credit card debt when I started back in 2007. And I debt when I started back in 2007. And I debt when I started back in 2007. And I was motivated to put food on the table. was motivated to put food on the table. was motivated to put food on the table. So I just got out and spoke to thousands So I just got out and spoke to thousands So I just got out and spoke to thousands and thousands of people and I became and thousands of people and I became and thousands of people and I became better at it just by sheer volume. And better at it just by sheer volume. And better at it just by sheer volume. And so we ended up pushing through that so we ended up pushing through that so we ended up pushing through that early startup stage. And actually early startup stage. And actually early startup stage. And actually there's a book that I picked up, Think there's a book that I picked up, Think there's a book that I picked up, Think and Grow Rich. And that was about six and Grow Rich. And that was about six and Grow Rich. And that was about six months in and in there it said get very months in and in there it said get very months in and in there it said get very clear on what your goals are. get a goal clear on what your goals are. get a goal clear on what your goals are. get a goal card. And so I did that and we did 38 card. And so I did that and we did 38 card. And so I did that and we did 38 sales that first full year after that sales that first full year after that sales that first full year after that six-month, we'll say dry spell. And then six-month, we'll say dry spell. And then six-month, we'll say dry spell. And then we hired somebody and we scaled up and we hired somebody and we scaled up and we hired somebody and we scaled up and we ended up doing the following year. We we ended up doing the following year. We we ended up doing the following year. We did 100 sales and then we did 160 and we did 100 sales and then we did 160 and we did 100 sales and then we did 160 and we scaled up doing a,000 sales while I was scaled up doing a,000 sales while I was scaled up doing a,000 sales while I was selling 150 homes personally leading the selling 150 homes personally leading the selling 150 homes personally leading the team doing a thousand. And then we team doing a thousand. And then we team doing a thousand. And then we started hitting this ceiling and I started hitting this ceiling and I started hitting this ceiling and I realized that I needed to transition realized that I needed to transition realized that I needed to transition from selling into being that CEO role.

from selling into being that CEO role. from selling into being that CEO role. And then that led me down kind of that And then that led me down kind of that And then that led me down kind of that next stage in the journey which you know next stage in the journey which you know next stage in the journey which you know we can I'm sure we'll get to here. But we can I'm sure we'll get to here. But we can I'm sure we'll get to here. But that's that's that early stage. There that's that's that early stage. There that's that's that early stage. There was so much I'm going to rewind this a was so much I'm going to rewind this a was so much I'm going to rewind this a little bit and break it down. So the one little bit and break it down. So the one little bit and break it down. So the one thing being put on waiverss let's let's thing being put on waiverss let's let's thing being put on waiverss let's let's talk about that getting cut. We have talk about that getting cut. We have talk about that getting cut. We have leaders listening who've been fired. leaders listening who've been fired. leaders listening who've been fired. That's basically what it was, right? That's basically what it was, right? That's basically what it was, right? It's like don't need you anymore. Yeah. It's like don't need you anymore. Yeah. It's like don't need you anymore. Yeah. Um that's devastating for a lot of Um that's devastating for a lot of Um that's devastating for a lot of people and it's often uh arresting. Uh people and it's often uh arresting. Uh people and it's often uh arresting. Uh there are people who don't recover from there are people who don't recover from there are people who don't recover from that. They never get their confidence. that. They never get their confidence. that. They never get their confidence. They, you know, they're like, "Oo, it's They, you know, they're like, "Oo, it's They, you know, they're like, "Oo, it's a wound that never heals." I'd love you, a wound that never heals." I'd love you, a wound that never heals." I'd love you, if you don't mind, taking us back to if you don't mind, taking us back to if you don't mind, taking us back to what that felt like, you know, seeing what that felt like, you know, seeing what that felt like, you know, seeing your stuff in a garbage bag, getting on your stuff in a garbage bag, getting on your stuff in a garbage bag, getting on a plane, flying back to Toronto. a plane, flying back to Toronto. a plane, flying back to Toronto. What was what were you feeling like What was what were you feeling like What was what were you feeling like emotionally when that happened? Yeah, it emotionally when that happened? Yeah, it emotionally when that happened? Yeah, it was it was embarrassing when that was it was embarrassing when that was it was embarrassing when that happened, right? You know, it was your happened, right? You know, it was your happened, right? You know, it was your whole your whole life you're going whole your whole life you're going whole your whole life you're going towards something and you're in this towards something and you're in this towards something and you're in this league and you got to walk in to the league and you got to walk in to the league and you got to walk in to the change room, you have all the guys in change room, you have all the guys in change room, you have all the guys in the change room and they see you're the change room and they see you're the change room and they see you're picking their garbage bag up and you're picking their garbage bag up and you're picking their garbage bag up and you're saying your your goodbyes. But I think saying your your goodbyes. But I think saying your your goodbyes. But I think looking back in retrospect at that what looking back in retrospect at that what looking back in retrospect at that what ended up happening was soon after I had ended up happening was soon after I had ended up happening was soon after I had the door opened up. Although that one the door opened up. Although that one the door opened up. Although that one door closed, another one opened up and door closed, another one opened up and door closed, another one opened up and my life completely changed for the my life completely changed for the my life completely changed for the better. And I realized looking back on better. And I realized looking back on better. And I realized looking back on this now like hockey was not that's not this now like hockey was not that's not this now like hockey was not that's not an ideal lifestyle. I mean when you see an ideal lifestyle. I mean when you see an ideal lifestyle. I mean when you see the guys in the NHL and you're like oh

the guys in the NHL and you're like oh the guys in the NHL and you're like oh they're making all these millions of they're making all these millions of they're making all these millions of dollars like believe me they earn every dollars like believe me they earn every dollars like believe me they earn every dollar just to get there is hard but the dollar just to get there is hard but the dollar just to get there is hard but the lifestyle is tough. I mean, your your lifestyle is tough. I mean, your your lifestyle is tough. I mean, your your knees get hurt, you know, over time. And knees get hurt, you know, over time. And knees get hurt, you know, over time. And so, the door opened up. And so, the the so, the door opened up. And so, the the so, the door opened up. And so, the the re the reality that I look back at now re the reality that I look back at now re the reality that I look back at now is the the fact that no matter what is the the fact that no matter what is the the fact that no matter what happens, there's two stories you can happens, there's two stories you can happens, there's two stories you can tell yourself. You can tell yourself a tell yourself. You can tell yourself a tell yourself. You can tell yourself a victim story or you can tell yourself a victim story or you can tell yourself a victim story or you can tell yourself a victor story. And so this is one of the victor story. And so this is one of the victor story. And so this is one of the biggest things that I've seen with biggest things that I've seen with biggest things that I've seen with successful people and through all the successful people and through all the successful people and through all the different pivots that I had to make different pivots that I had to make different pivots that I had to make through the years is that when something through the years is that when something through the years is that when something happens, you really look at what can I happens, you really look at what can I happens, you really look at what can I take from this and and what's the we'll take from this and and what's the we'll take from this and and what's the we'll say the key insights or the key lessons say the key insights or the key lessons say the key insights or the key lessons that I can learn from this and that that I can learn from this and that that I can learn from this and that another door is going to open up. I mean another door is going to open up. I mean another door is going to open up. I mean you have two people and Carrie, you know you have two people and Carrie, you know you have two people and Carrie, you know the story of the two sons that were the story of the two sons that were the story of the two sons that were grown up by a drunk drunk father. They grown up by a drunk drunk father. They grown up by a drunk drunk father. They beat the father beat them and one grew beat the father beat them and one grew beat the father beat them and one grew up to be, you know, a drunk the same and up to be, you know, a drunk the same and up to be, you know, a drunk the same and they an interviewer asked them why they they an interviewer asked them why they they an interviewer asked them why they were a drunk and they're like, "Well, if were a drunk and they're like, "Well, if were a drunk and they're like, "Well, if you knew my father, you would be that you knew my father, you would be that you knew my father, you would be that way, too." And then you have the other way, too." And then you have the other way, too." And then you have the other son that grew up to be wildly son that grew up to be wildly son that grew up to be wildly successful, great father, great husband, successful, great father, great husband, successful, great father, great husband, great entrepreneur. And they he used great entrepreneur. And they he used great entrepreneur. And they he used that same reason of the father being a that same reason of the father being a that same reason of the father being a drunk and beating them as to why he was drunk and beating them as to why he was drunk and beating them as to why he was so successful. Mhm. And so the cup, you so successful. Mhm. And so the cup, you so successful. Mhm. And so the cup, you could have a cup that's half full or could have a cup that's half full or could have a cup that's half full or half empty and it's the same exact half empty and it's the same exact half empty and it's the same exact thing. You just see two different thing. You just see two different thing. You just see two different stories. And whatever you tell yourself stories. And whatever you tell yourself stories. And whatever you tell yourself in those emotional downfalls is is how

in those emotional downfalls is is how in those emotional downfalls is is how you act and respond. And I think that is you act and respond. And I think that is you act and respond. And I think that is the biggest differentiating factor from the biggest differentiating factor from the biggest differentiating factor from the uber successful to the ones that the uber successful to the ones that the uber successful to the ones that fail. And so you kind of had that fail. And so you kind of had that fail. And so you kind of had that mindset even on the flight home. Like mindset even on the flight home. Like mindset even on the flight home. Like I'm sure you know you were licking your I'm sure you know you were licking your I'm sure you know you were licking your wounds for a minute or two, but you were wounds for a minute or two, but you were wounds for a minute or two, but you were quickly pivoting into okay, what quickly pivoting into okay, what quickly pivoting into okay, what opportunity does this provide for me? opportunity does this provide for me? opportunity does this provide for me? Yeah, it wasn't it wasn't an overnight Yeah, it wasn't it wasn't an overnight Yeah, it wasn't it wasn't an overnight thing like I was looking for a number of thing like I was looking for a number of thing like I was looking for a number of of months for another team and it was of months for another team and it was of months for another team and it was only in a moment that Joanna made that only in a moment that Joanna made that only in a moment that Joanna made that suggestion. So I think looking back in suggestion. So I think looking back in suggestion. So I think looking back in retrospect, I know it's like I have this retrospect, I know it's like I have this retrospect, I know it's like I have this feel phil philosophy, you know, this feel phil philosophy, you know, this feel phil philosophy, you know, this whole side of it that I that uh I think whole side of it that I that uh I think whole side of it that I that uh I think looking back on it now there was there looking back on it now there was there looking back on it now there was there was the challenge of going through it, was the challenge of going through it, was the challenge of going through it, but it was more of a must. What I what I but it was more of a must. What I what I but it was more of a must. What I what I mean by that is that mean by that is that mean by that is that the the moment that I I got cut, there the the moment that I I got cut, there the the moment that I I got cut, there was embarrassment and then I had to go was embarrassment and then I had to go was embarrassment and then I had to go through this process of challenge and through this process of challenge and through this process of challenge and then it got to a point where it was a then it got to a point where it was a then it got to a point where it was a must that I had to put food on the table must that I had to put food on the table must that I had to put food on the table because I was living at her parents' because I was living at her parents' because I was living at her parents' house and that was not okay. Like I was house and that was not okay. Like I was house and that was not okay. Like I was embarrassed by living there. So, I think embarrassed by living there. So, I think embarrassed by living there. So, I think that any sort of transition that you go that any sort of transition that you go that any sort of transition that you go through, if you can put yourself where through, if you can put yourself where through, if you can put yourself where your back is up against the wall and you your back is up against the wall and you your back is up against the wall and you make it a must rather than I'll get make it a must rather than I'll get make it a must rather than I'll get around to it when I can. I think that is around to it when I can. I think that is around to it when I can. I think that is probably one of the biggest, we'll say, probably one of the biggest, we'll say, probably one of the biggest, we'll say, um, drivers in any, you know, any um, drivers in any, you know, any um, drivers in any, you know, any anybody going through a challenging

anybody going through a challenging anybody going through a challenging period. You put your back up against the period. You put your back up against the period. You put your back up against the wall and you're forced to do it. You're wall and you're forced to do it. You're wall and you're forced to do it. You're around 25 at this point, are you? Early around 25 at this point, are you? Early around 25 at this point, are you? Early early 20s. So, I was around 24. Yeah. early 20s. So, I was around 24. Yeah. early 20s. So, I was around 24. Yeah. 24. Okay. Yeah. And the thing for people 24. Okay. Yeah. And the thing for people 24. Okay. Yeah. And the thing for people who don't know, I mean, hockey is all who don't know, I mean, hockey is all who don't know, I mean, hockey is all consuming in Canada or other nations consuming in Canada or other nations consuming in Canada or other nations where they play hockey where this is where they play hockey where this is where they play hockey where this is literally a 20-year dream from the time literally a 20-year dream from the time literally a 20-year dream from the time you're four years old. It's your whole you're four years old. It's your whole you're four years old. It's your whole conscious life and it's yanked out from conscious life and it's yanked out from conscious life and it's yanked out from under you. Okay, let's talk about the under you. Okay, let's talk about the under you. Okay, let's talk about the switch, the pivot to real estate because switch, the pivot to real estate because switch, the pivot to real estate because uh you know, I have a sister who's in uh you know, I have a sister who's in uh you know, I have a sister who's in real estate, you know, shout out to Jen. real estate, you know, shout out to Jen. real estate, you know, shout out to Jen. She's awesome at what she does. Uh and She's awesome at what she does. Uh and She's awesome at what she does. Uh and she's been very successful at it. you've she's been very successful at it. you've she's been very successful at it. you've been very successful at it uh for been very successful at it uh for been very successful at it uh for leaders. I mean, Mark, you became the leaders. I mean, Mark, you became the leaders. I mean, Mark, you became the number one real estate agent in Canada number one real estate agent in Canada number one real estate agent in Canada and your firm number one in Canada and and your firm number one in Canada and and your firm number one in Canada and that's not even in a major city. That's that's not even in a major city. That's that's not even in a major city. That's an hour north of a major city. So, I an hour north of a major city. So, I an hour north of a major city. So, I mean, that says something. But my mean, that says something. But my mean, that says something. But my understanding is in the industry of real understanding is in the industry of real understanding is in the industry of real estate, it's a relatively low bar to estate, it's a relatively low bar to estate, it's a relatively low bar to enter. If I decide I want to get into enter. If I decide I want to get into enter. If I decide I want to get into real estate, I can probably be licensed real estate, I can probably be licensed real estate, I can probably be licensed with what within 6 months or so. Six with what within 6 months or so. Six with what within 6 months or so. Six months. So, you don't have to go to months. So, you don't have to go to months. So, you don't have to go to school. You don't need a degree. Uh, bar school. You don't need a degree. Uh, bar school. You don't need a degree. Uh, bar of entry. And I've heard, you can of entry. And I've heard, you can of entry. And I've heard, you can correct me, but like 80% of real estate correct me, but like 80% of real estate correct me, but like 80% of real estate agents end up selling one or two houses agents end up selling one or two houses agents end up selling one or two houses a year. Is that right? Yeah. Is that a year. Is that right? Yeah. Is that a year. Is that right? Yeah. Is that about right? Half of them on the board.

about right? Half of them on the board. about right? Half of them on the board. I understand the Toronto Real Estate I understand the Toronto Real Estate I understand the Toronto Real Estate Board, there's over 70,000, won't even Board, there's over 70,000, won't even Board, there's over 70,000, won't even sell a property. And so, there's there's sell a property. And so, there's there's sell a property. And so, there's there's a lot of them that have their license a lot of them that have their license a lot of them that have their license or, you know, maybe they sell one uh or, you know, maybe they sell one uh or, you know, maybe they sell one uh after that 50% tile. And so there's a after that 50% tile. And so there's a after that 50% tile. And so there's a lot of agents that are in the business lot of agents that are in the business lot of agents that are in the business for maybe just in case, but there's very for maybe just in case, but there's very for maybe just in case, but there's very few that actually do it full-time. few that actually do it full-time. few that actually do it full-time. There's about an 87% failure rate within There's about an 87% failure rate within There's about an 87% failure rate within a 5year time span in the business. And a 5year time span in the business. And a 5year time span in the business. And so, and by failure rate, how do you so, and by failure rate, how do you so, and by failure rate, how do you define that? What does that mean? define that? What does that mean? define that? What does that mean? They're out. You mean they're like, I They're out. You mean they're like, I They're out. You mean they're like, I got my license, now I'm done. Yeah, got my license, now I'm done. Yeah, got my license, now I'm done. Yeah, that's right. So, only 13% make it. And that's right. So, only 13% make it. And that's right. So, only 13% make it. And of the people who make it, a tiny of the people who make it, a tiny of the people who make it, a tiny percentage actually sell homes enough to percentage actually sell homes enough to percentage actually sell homes enough to make it this is my full-time job. Yeah, make it this is my full-time job. Yeah, make it this is my full-time job. Yeah, it's it's a little more extreme than the it's it's a little more extreme than the it's it's a little more extreme than the perto principle where you get like perto principle where you get like perto principle where you get like pretty much, you know, 20% of the pretty much, you know, 20% of the pretty much, you know, 20% of the realtors that are doing 80% of the of realtors that are doing 80% of the of realtors that are doing 80% of the of the business. And so it's a little it's the business. And so it's a little it's the business. And so it's a little it's kind of more like 955 or 9010. It's more kind of more like 955 or 9010. It's more kind of more like 955 or 9010. It's more like 9010, right? Like there's there the like 9010, right? Like there's there the like 9010, right? Like there's there the top agents and the top teams are doing top agents and the top teams are doing top agents and the top teams are doing more. And so I mean it just it's harder more. And so I mean it just it's harder more. And so I mean it just it's harder today for an individual agent versus a today for an individual agent versus a today for an individual agent versus a team that operates as a business to be team that operates as a business to be team that operates as a business to be able to execute because there's just so able to execute because there's just so able to execute because there's just so many things you need to do right when it many things you need to do right when it many things you need to do right when it comes down to marketing properties.

comes down to marketing properties. comes down to marketing properties. I remember cuz we've been part of the I remember cuz we've been part of the I remember cuz we've been part of the same community for years living in the same community for years living in the same community for years living in the same area but before we became friends I same area but before we became friends I same area but before we became friends I remember seeing your signs and I don't remember seeing your signs and I don't remember seeing your signs and I don't know what it was Mark but there was know what it was Mark but there was know what it was Mark but there was something that told me even back in 2007 something that told me even back in 2007 something that told me even back in 2007 when you started I've never told you when you started I've never told you when you started I've never told you this before. I thought that guy's going this before. I thought that guy's going this before. I thought that guy's going to be successful. And I don't know what to be successful. And I don't know what to be successful. And I don't know what it was, whether it was the branding. it was, whether it was the branding. it was, whether it was the branding. Your branding's come a long way. What Your branding's come a long way. What Your branding's come a long way. What were what were some of the initial were what were some of the initial were what were some of the initial decisions you made when you got into decisions you made when you got into decisions you made when you got into real estate, so you didn't become part real estate, so you didn't become part real estate, so you didn't become part of the 90% who basically couldn't sell a of the 90% who basically couldn't sell a of the 90% who basically couldn't sell a house, didn't sell many houses, uh, and house, didn't sell many houses, uh, and house, didn't sell many houses, uh, and you know, didn't end up going into you know, didn't end up going into you know, didn't end up going into greater credit card debt, which was a greater credit card debt, which was a greater credit card debt, which was a real possibility. What were some of real possibility. What were some of real possibility. What were some of those initial decisions that you and those initial decisions that you and those initial decisions that you and Joanna, your wife, made uh to help you Joanna, your wife, made uh to help you Joanna, your wife, made uh to help you sell 38 homes in your first year? Yeah. sell 38 homes in your first year? Yeah. sell 38 homes in your first year? Yeah. Well, first it was it was a must. We Well, first it was it was a must. We Well, first it was it was a must. We burned the ships. Like I didn't have a burned the ships. Like I didn't have a burned the ships. Like I didn't have a part-time job. Joanna was doing the part-time job. Joanna was doing the part-time job. Joanna was doing the staging and the marketing and so we staging and the marketing and so we staging and the marketing and so we basically we had to be successful. So I basically we had to be successful. So I basically we had to be successful. So I think having a strong desire is the think having a strong desire is the think having a strong desire is the first we'll say decision to burn the first we'll say decision to burn the first we'll say decision to burn the ships. But then after that it was, you ships. But then after that it was, you ships. But then after that it was, you know, for me it was always going full know, for me it was always going full know, for me it was always going full out and that was actually our slogan, out and that was actually our slogan, out and that was actually our slogan, full out for you. Jordan is like, you're full out for you. Jordan is like, you're full out for you. Jordan is like, you're always going full out in hockey, full always going full out in hockey, full always going full out in hockey, full out in business. We should be full out out in business. We should be full out out in business. We should be full out for you. So we got very clear what our for you. So we got very clear what our for you. So we got very clear what our brand was that early on. That was your brand was that early on. That was your brand was that early on. That was your branding. Full out for you. I I thought branding. Full out for you. I I thought branding. Full out for you. I I thought that was more recent. Okay. Yeah. No, I that was more recent. Okay. Yeah. No, I that was more recent. Okay. Yeah. No, I remember we were in the town home. There remember we were in the town home. There remember we were in the town home. There was the blue tile 1100 square foot our was the blue tile 1100 square foot our was the blue tile 1100 square foot our first property and Joanna's like that we first property and Joanna's like that we first property and Joanna's like that we had that conversation in the kitchen.

had that conversation in the kitchen. had that conversation in the kitchen. And so I think getting clear, we'll say, And so I think getting clear, we'll say, And so I think getting clear, we'll say, what your your differentiating factor is what your your differentiating factor is what your your differentiating factor is early on it was was definitely pivotal. early on it was was definitely pivotal. early on it was was definitely pivotal. And then, you know, we wanted to really And then, you know, we wanted to really And then, you know, we wanted to really create the best experience out there for create the best experience out there for create the best experience out there for clients. And so that's something that we clients. And so that's something that we clients. And so that's something that we never cut corners on any of the never cut corners on any of the never cut corners on any of the marketing, the branding, how we service. marketing, the branding, how we service. marketing, the branding, how we service. I mean, I don't know if you recall, but I mean, I don't know if you recall, but I mean, I don't know if you recall, but back in the day, we used to have our back in the day, we used to have our back in the day, we used to have our feature books or feature sheets. When a feature books or feature sheets. When a feature books or feature sheets. When a buyer would come into a listed home, buyer would come into a listed home, buyer would come into a listed home, they would get to leave of something of they would get to leave of something of they would get to leave of something of value. So they remember the property. We value. So they remember the property. We value. So they remember the property. We call them feature books. Well, we were call them feature books. Well, we were call them feature books. Well, we were the first, one of the first anyways, at the first, one of the first anyways, at the first, one of the first anyways, at least in our market that I can recall least in our market that I can recall least in our market that I can recall that would actually have a CD of the that would actually have a CD of the that would actually have a CD of the slideshow in the back of the book that slideshow in the back of the book that slideshow in the back of the book that we we pasted in the back. And now we we pasted in the back. And now we we pasted in the back. And now everything is online and, you know, everything is online and, you know, everything is online and, you know, there's a website URL and whatnot, but there's a website URL and whatnot, but there's a website URL and whatnot, but you know, that was one of those cutting you know, that was one of those cutting you know, that was one of those cutting edge kind of marketing tactics that we edge kind of marketing tactics that we edge kind of marketing tactics that we did, but we were always thinking ahead. did, but we were always thinking ahead. did, but we were always thinking ahead. And so that helped us get a good enough And so that helped us get a good enough And so that helped us get a good enough head start. And then I just took massive head start. And then I just took massive head start. And then I just took massive action. Like I was out in snow blizzards action. Like I was out in snow blizzards action. Like I was out in snow blizzards m knocking on doors. I was cold calling m knocking on doors. I was cold calling m knocking on doors. I was cold calling and then but I'd say from a decision and then but I'd say from a decision and then but I'd say from a decision standpoint Carrie where it really turned standpoint Carrie where it really turned standpoint Carrie where it really turned for us is when I was selling 38 homes a for us is when I was selling 38 homes a for us is when I was selling 38 homes a year. Joanna was doing the staging and year. Joanna was doing the staging and year. Joanna was doing the staging and she was doing the photography and we she was doing the photography and we she was doing the photography and we decided to hire somebody. And this is decided to hire somebody. And this is decided to hire somebody. And this is where I know a lot of the listeners out where I know a lot of the listeners out where I know a lot of the listeners out there is like I'm an independent there is like I'm an independent there is like I'm an independent contractor. I'm doing everything on my contractor. I'm doing everything on my contractor. I'm doing everything on my own and it's very scary. And so we own and it's very scary. And so we own and it's very scary. And so we decided we're going to bring somebody decided we're going to bring somebody decided we're going to bring somebody on. We said, "Okay, just for 30 hours a

on. We said, "Okay, just for 30 hours a on. We said, "Okay, just for 30 hours a week." And we did that and she never week." And we did that and she never week." And we did that and she never worked less than 40 hours. And we scaled worked less than 40 hours. And we scaled worked less than 40 hours. And we scaled up after that year from 38 maxing out 38 up after that year from 38 maxing out 38 up after that year from 38 maxing out 38 sales to 100 sales that next year. And sales to 100 sales that next year. And sales to 100 sales that next year. And so that's where I really learned the so that's where I really learned the so that's where I really learned the value on hiring really strong people and value on hiring really strong people and value on hiring really strong people and that it's an investment. It's not a that it's an investment. It's not a that it's an investment. It's not a cost. So, going a little bit deeper, you cost. So, going a little bit deeper, you cost. So, going a little bit deeper, you mentioned you're an introvert and we've mentioned you're an introvert and we've mentioned you're an introvert and we've been to your house many times. You've been to your house many times. You've been to your house many times. You've been to our house many times and Yeah, I been to our house many times and Yeah, I been to our house many times and Yeah, I I buy that, Mark. Like, you have a I buy that, Mark. Like, you have a I buy that, Mark. Like, you have a really good um way with people, but when really good um way with people, but when really good um way with people, but when you you probably refuel by being alone. you you probably refuel by being alone. you you probably refuel by being alone. Yeah. Um Yeah. Um Yeah. Um how did you push yourself? And and how did you push yourself? And and how did you push yourself? And and you're right. I mean, if you're going to you're right. I mean, if you're going to you're right. I mean, if you're going to sell real estate in Canada, that's going sell real estate in Canada, that's going sell real estate in Canada, that's going to mean some lousy weather. That's going to mean some lousy weather. That's going to mean some lousy weather. That's going to mean minus 20° days. It's going to to mean minus 20° days. It's going to to mean minus 20° days. It's going to mean blizzards. It's going to mean heat mean blizzards. It's going to mean heat mean blizzards. It's going to mean heat waves in the summer. All of that. How waves in the summer. All of that. How waves in the summer. All of that. How did you push yourself through all those did you push yourself through all those did you push yourself through all those boundaries to go literally knock on how boundaries to go literally knock on how boundaries to go literally knock on how many doors would you have knocked on many doors would you have knocked on many doors would you have knocked on that first year? Yeah. Well, there was that first year? Yeah. Well, there was that first year? Yeah. Well, there was there was thousands through the through there was thousands through the through there was thousands through the through my career. But, you know, for me it was my career. But, you know, for me it was my career. But, you know, for me it was I knew that if I had 100 conversations, I knew that if I had 100 conversations, I knew that if I had 100 conversations, whether it was through cold calling or whether it was through cold calling or whether it was through cold calling or door-nocking that I could book two door-nocking that I could book two door-nocking that I could book two appointments and it was a numbers game appointments and it was a numbers game appointments and it was a numbers game for me. So, 2% literally. Yeah. It was for me. So, 2% literally. Yeah. It was for me. So, 2% literally. Yeah. It was like I It's not if, it's when. And so like I It's not if, it's when. And so like I It's not if, it's when. And so that was helpful because I knew it that was helpful because I knew it that was helpful because I knew it wasn't a personal thing. It was just it wasn't a personal thing. It was just it wasn't a personal thing. It was just it was a numbers game. And then as time was a numbers game. And then as time was a numbers game. And then as time went on, you know, I started improving went on, you know, I started improving went on, you know, I started improving and getting better at it. And then I got and getting better at it. And then I got and getting better at it. And then I got to the point where I had people calling

to the point where I had people calling to the point where I had people calling where I didn't need to do that. But I'd where I didn't need to do that. But I'd where I didn't need to do that. But I'd say what pushed me was first it was a say what pushed me was first it was a say what pushed me was first it was a must. I had to put food on the table. must. I had to put food on the table. must. I had to put food on the table. And then after that it was it was like And then after that it was it was like And then after that it was it was like being the top in the office and then it being the top in the office and then it being the top in the office and then it was being the top in all of roll of page was being the top in all of roll of page was being the top in all of roll of page which is 20,000 agents and then being which is 20,000 agents and then being which is 20,000 agents and then being the top in all Canada out of all teams the top in all Canada out of all teams the top in all Canada out of all teams and all brokerages. That was a driver and all brokerages. That was a driver and all brokerages. That was a driver and then after that it was like okay I and then after that it was like okay I and then after that it was like okay I want to build a company that I can be want to build a company that I can be want to build a company that I can be really proud of where all of our team really proud of where all of our team really proud of where all of our team members is big enough where all of our members is big enough where all of our members is big enough where all of our team members can hit what their team members can hit what their team members can hit what their motivators are and what their big goals motivators are and what their big goals motivators are and what their big goals are. And so that was really cool. And are. And so that was really cool. And are. And so that was really cool. And then after that it was like okay I want then after that it was like okay I want then after that it was like okay I want to build an investment firm that to build an investment firm that to build an investment firm that investors can hit their goals and then investors can hit their goals and then investors can hit their goals and then it was like okay let's pull in the it was like okay let's pull in the it was like okay let's pull in the resident experience as well. So for me resident experience as well. So for me resident experience as well. So for me the the the driver changed through the years and so driver changed through the years and so driver changed through the years and so initially it was like that fear of initially it was like that fear of initially it was like that fear of failure and I still think in the back of failure and I still think in the back of failure and I still think in the back of my mind that's still there but the my mind that's still there but the my mind that's still there but the motivator getting clear and and motivator getting clear and and motivator getting clear and and realizing that it changes over time and realizing that it changes over time and realizing that it changes over time and and just really getting clear what that and just really getting clear what that and just really getting clear what that was and then tying a specific number to was and then tying a specific number to was and then tying a specific number to what that motivator is so that I know if what that motivator is so that I know if what that motivator is so that I know if I hit it or not. That was a really big I hit it or not. That was a really big I hit it or not. That was a really big part. And of course, I love growth and I part. And of course, I love growth and I part. And of course, I love growth and I love curiosity and yeah, these love curiosity and yeah, these love curiosity and yeah, these conversations, Carrie, you and I and conversations, Carrie, you and I and conversations, Carrie, you and I and we've had lots of business conversations we've had lots of business conversations we've had lots of business conversations through the years as well. Like I love through the years as well. Like I love through the years as well. Like I love it. I I love it. And so for me, like it. I I love it. And so for me, like it. I I love it. And so for me, like this is fun. And when you get to improve this is fun. And when you get to improve this is fun. And when you get to improve and get better, it's uh we'll just say

and get better, it's uh we'll just say and get better, it's uh we'll just say it's uh um it's a lot more rewarding the it's uh um it's a lot more rewarding the it's uh um it's a lot more rewarding the better you get at something and more better you get at something and more better you get at something and more fun. If um if you had to advise someone, fun. If um if you had to advise someone, fun. If um if you had to advise someone, and it's surprising, I don't know and it's surprising, I don't know and it's surprising, I don't know whether you know this or not. A lot of whether you know this or not. A lot of whether you know this or not. A lot of people don't, but um many preachers are people don't, but um many preachers are people don't, but um many preachers are introverted. Believe it or not, the introverted. Believe it or not, the introverted. Believe it or not, the people on stage with the microphone are people on stage with the microphone are people on stage with the microphone are pretty quiet. So, they might retreat to pretty quiet. So, they might retreat to pretty quiet. So, they might retreat to a green room. They might say, "Um, I a green room. They might say, "Um, I a green room. They might say, "Um, I would never go door todo, etc., etc." would never go door todo, etc., etc." would never go door todo, etc., etc." What would you say what advice would you What would you say what advice would you What would you say what advice would you have for people who are just maybe have for people who are just maybe have for people who are just maybe naturally a little more reserved in in naturally a little more reserved in in naturally a little more reserved in in terms of embracing the public aspect of terms of embracing the public aspect of terms of embracing the public aspect of the role? Yeah, first I think it's the role? Yeah, first I think it's the role? Yeah, first I think it's really important to figure out what like really important to figure out what like really important to figure out what like why you're doing the thing that you're why you're doing the thing that you're why you're doing the thing that you're doing. And so that motivator I feel is doing. And so that motivator I feel is doing. And so that motivator I feel is really important because if you don't really important because if you don't really important because if you don't make it a must or if it's not important make it a must or if it's not important make it a must or if it's not important enough then you won't put yourself enough then you won't put yourself enough then you won't put yourself through the we'll say the the through the we'll say the the through the we'll say the the uncomfortness or the the the lack of uncomfortness or the the the lack of uncomfortness or the the the lack of comfortability. You're not going to push comfortability. You're not going to push comfortability. You're not going to push yourself through that if it's not a yourself through that if it's not a yourself through that if it's not a strong enough why. I mean so getting strong enough why. I mean so getting strong enough why. I mean so getting clear on on the reason that you are clear on on the reason that you are clear on on the reason that you are doing it and then also understanding doing it and then also understanding doing it and then also understanding that everything that you start at the that everything that you start at the that everything that you start at the beginning is it's in general unless beginning is it's in general unless beginning is it's in general unless you're naturally inclined is hard at the you're naturally inclined is hard at the you're naturally inclined is hard at the beginning but like any muscle you will beginning but like any muscle you will beginning but like any muscle you will get better and so getting out in front get better and so getting out in front get better and so getting out in front of people if that's a fear the best of people if that's a fear the best of people if that's a fear the best thing that I found to do it is to go and thing that I found to do it is to go and thing that I found to do it is to go and attack it because right on the other attack it because right on the other attack it because right on the other side of fear is like there's peace on side of fear is like there's peace on side of fear is like there's peace on the other side and so it's interesting the other side and so it's interesting the other side and so it's interesting thing if you let that continue to like

thing if you let that continue to like thing if you let that continue to like hang out there that fear side and if you hang out there that fear side and if you hang out there that fear side and if you don't attack it it's always there and it don't attack it it's always there and it don't attack it it's always there and it grows versus like Will Smith said is grows versus like Will Smith said is grows versus like Will Smith said is that he he his whole approach is he he that he he his whole approach is he he that he he his whole approach is he he fears fear and so he attacks it anytime fears fear and so he attacks it anytime fears fear and so he attacks it anytime it comes up in himow and he goes after it comes up in himow and he goes after it comes up in himow and he goes after it and I found that for me it's it's it and I found that for me it's it's it and I found that for me it's it's like the faster I can go after that fear like the faster I can go after that fear like the faster I can go after that fear then it subsides and it drifts and it it then it subsides and it drifts and it it then it subsides and it drifts and it it it leaves but having a clear why as to it leaves but having a clear why as to it leaves but having a clear why as to why you're doing it. Should get you give why you're doing it. Should get you give why you're doing it. Should get you give you enough, we'll say, fuel to be able you enough, we'll say, fuel to be able you enough, we'll say, fuel to be able to just get started. Then once you get to just get started. Then once you get to just get started. Then once you get started, then it's just a matter of started, then it's just a matter of started, then it's just a matter of consistency and reminding yourself why consistency and reminding yourself why consistency and reminding yourself why you're doing it. Well, just a quick note you're doing it. Well, just a quick note you're doing it. Well, just a quick note before the next question. You and I were before the next question. You and I were before the next question. You and I were chatting about when are you going to be chatting about when are you going to be chatting about when are you going to be in town because we always love getting in town because we always love getting in town because we always love getting together. It's this weekend after we're together. It's this weekend after we're together. It's this weekend after we're recording this and you said, "Do you recording this and you said, "Do you recording this and you said, "Do you know about the home show? You guys are know about the home show? You guys are know about the home show? You guys are going to be at the home show." I'm like, going to be at the home show." I'm like, going to be at the home show." I'm like, "No, I don't know about the home show." "No, I don't know about the home show." "No, I don't know about the home show." You said, 'Well, come see me. And you're You said, 'Well, come see me. And you're You said, 'Well, come see me. And you're going to be in the booth. So, I mean, going to be in the booth. So, I mean, going to be in the booth. So, I mean, the thing that blows me away about that, the thing that blows me away about that, the thing that blows me away about that, I I made a mental note, is a lot of I I made a mental note, is a lot of I I made a mental note, is a lot of people at your level of success and your people at your level of success and your people at your level of success and your level of team being number one in Canada level of team being number one in Canada level of team being number one in Canada would be like, "Yeah, I have people who would be like, "Yeah, I have people who would be like, "Yeah, I have people who go to the booth." And I think that's a go to the booth." And I think that's a go to the booth." And I think that's a really good note for those of us in really good note for those of us in really good note for those of us in leadership that we need to be out there leadership that we need to be out there leadership that we need to be out there in the lobby, out of the green room, in the lobby, out of the green room, in the lobby, out of the green room, meeting people, connecting with people.

meeting people, connecting with people. meeting people, connecting with people. Like, you never I'm know you use your Like, you never I'm know you use your Like, you never I'm know you use your time strategically. Yeah, but uh but time strategically. Yeah, but uh but time strategically. Yeah, but uh but that doesn't really go away. I want to that doesn't really go away. I want to that doesn't really go away. I want to talk about branding. Um you're $10,000 talk about branding. Um you're $10,000 talk about branding. Um you're $10,000 in debt and I think that's probably why in debt and I think that's probably why in debt and I think that's probably why when I saw those signs and I remember it when I saw those signs and I remember it when I saw those signs and I remember it was around the time we were launching was around the time we were launching was around the time we were launching Kexus that you uh launched, you know, Kexus that you uh launched, you know, Kexus that you uh launched, you know, became just at that time you were a real became just at that time you were a real became just at that time you were a real estate agent. That's it. Like you didn't estate agent. That's it. Like you didn't estate agent. That's it. Like you didn't own a brokerage. You you worked for own a brokerage. You you worked for own a brokerage. You you worked for another company. But I remember seeing another company. But I remember seeing another company. But I remember seeing your signs and thinking those are really your signs and thinking those are really your signs and thinking those are really well branded. They don't like look like well branded. They don't like look like well branded. They don't like look like the generic sign that's out there. When the generic sign that's out there. When the generic sign that's out there. When you're $10,000 in debt and you're you're $10,000 in debt and you're you're $10,000 in debt and you're fighting to put groceries on the table fighting to put groceries on the table fighting to put groceries on the table and living with your in-laws, why did and living with your in-laws, why did and living with your in-laws, why did you decide to make an investment when you decide to make an investment when you decide to make an investment when you could have just not printed the CDs, you could have just not printed the CDs, you could have just not printed the CDs, not gone for the high-end uh thing? Why not gone for the high-end uh thing? Why not gone for the high-end uh thing? Why did why did you do that? And then how did why did you do that? And then how did why did you do that? And then how did you do that? Yeah. So at the did you do that? Yeah. So at the did you do that? Yeah. So at the beginning when you when we didn't have a beginning when you when we didn't have a beginning when you when we didn't have a lot it was pretty much get business lot it was pretty much get business lot it was pretty much get business however you can to be able to generate however you can to be able to generate however you can to be able to generate income to first get food on the table income to first get food on the table income to first get food on the table like let's stop the bleeding here. So like let's stop the bleeding here. So like let's stop the bleeding here. So that's where friends that's where friends that's where friends family door knocking all the stuff that family door knocking all the stuff that family door knocking all the stuff that doesn't cost a lot but then as we doesn't cost a lot but then as we doesn't cost a lot but then as we started getting some more we'll say started getting some more we'll say started getting some more we'll say dollars in where we we didn't need to dollars in where we we didn't need to dollars in where we we didn't need to spend it on living. Of course we weren't spend it on living. Of course we weren't spend it on living. Of course we weren't taking lavish vacations around that taking lavish vacations around that taking lavish vacations around that time. That's right. What we found was time. That's right. What we found was time. That's right. What we found was was really important is that whenever we was really important is that whenever we was really important is that whenever we had a listing, we had the opportunity we had a listing, we had the opportunity we had a listing, we had the opportunity we maximized that as much as possible. And

maximized that as much as possible. And maximized that as much as possible. And so when it came down to advertising, we so when it came down to advertising, we so when it came down to advertising, we realized that simple was better. So realized that simple was better. So realized that simple was better. So anytime we were trying to be cute with anytime we were trying to be cute with anytime we were trying to be cute with our messaging, it never stuck. So just our messaging, it never stuck. So just our messaging, it never stuck. So just very simple and consistent. And so the very simple and consistent. And so the very simple and consistent. And so the consistency with the marketing was like consistency with the marketing was like consistency with the marketing was like that became extremely important. And as that became extremely important. And as that became extremely important. And as we started making more, we would we started making more, we would we started making more, we would advertise a little bit more, but we were advertise a little bit more, but we were advertise a little bit more, but we were always consistent. So I we saw some always consistent. So I we saw some always consistent. So I we saw some agents come into the market and they do agents come into the market and they do agents come into the market and they do these full page onepage spread and they these full page onepage spread and they these full page onepage spread and they would do that for one or two weeks. would do that for one or two weeks. would do that for one or two weeks. Whereas with us, we started small, but Whereas with us, we started small, but Whereas with us, we started small, but we were consistent every week we were we were consistent every week we were we were consistent every week we were there and and then it slowly grew where there and and then it slowly grew where there and and then it slowly grew where we were starting to fund it our ourself we were starting to fund it our ourself we were starting to fund it our ourself through our profits. But I think that's through our profits. But I think that's through our profits. But I think that's as a as we'll say anybody that starts as a as we'll say anybody that starts as a as we'll say anybody that starts something if you start small and you can something if you start small and you can something if you start small and you can start with very low investment you will start with very low investment you will start with very low investment you will become very efficient in whatever it is become very efficient in whatever it is become very efficient in whatever it is that that you're doing. And so I think, that that you're doing. And so I think, that that you're doing. And so I think, you know, when it comes down to building you know, when it comes down to building you know, when it comes down to building a church, for example, I know a lot of a church, for example, I know a lot of a church, for example, I know a lot of your listeners, you know, are church your listeners, you know, are church your listeners, you know, are church church leaders. It's like just start church leaders. It's like just start church leaders. It's like just start with what you have, maximize that. And with what you have, maximize that. And with what you have, maximize that. And as you start getting more and more of a as you start getting more and more of a as you start getting more and more of a following, I think that's where you can following, I think that's where you can following, I think that's where you can start leveraging some of these other start leveraging some of these other start leveraging some of these other costs. I think if going right to those costs. I think if going right to those costs. I think if going right to those expensive, you haven't built up the the expensive, you haven't built up the the expensive, you haven't built up the the muscle, I believe, enough. Whereas if muscle, I believe, enough. Whereas if muscle, I believe, enough. Whereas if you're doing maybe the lower lower cost you're doing maybe the lower lower cost you're doing maybe the lower lower cost or say the the the face to face on a or say the the the face to face on a or say the the the face to face on a more regular basis, I think that that's

more regular basis, I think that that's more regular basis, I think that that's how you start to in order to build how you start to in order to build how you start to in order to build enough muscle so as you start to scale enough muscle so as you start to scale enough muscle so as you start to scale up, you have those foundational, we'll up, you have those foundational, we'll up, you have those foundational, we'll say um skill sets. Drop a couple bucks say um skill sets. Drop a couple bucks say um skill sets. Drop a couple bucks on a Facebook or Google ad before you on a Facebook or Google ad before you on a Facebook or Google ad before you drop $10,000 on a billboard. Fire drop $10,000 on a billboard. Fire drop $10,000 on a billboard. Fire bullet. Yeah. So one of and and again if bullet. Yeah. So one of and and again if bullet. Yeah. So one of and and again if you don't want to talk about this we can you don't want to talk about this we can you don't want to talk about this we can cut this out but I remember there was a cut this out but I remember there was a cut this out but I remember there was a couple years ago and you're in both couple years ago and you're in both couple years ago and you're in both countries now. So just uh you're in the countries now. So just uh you're in the countries now. So just uh you're in the US and in Canada you have residences in US and in Canada you have residences in US and in Canada you have residences in Naples and also in you know north of Naples and also in you know north of Naples and also in you know north of Toronto but for your Canadian presence Toronto but for your Canadian presence Toronto but for your Canadian presence um anybody north of Toronto you see um anybody north of Toronto you see um anybody north of Toronto you see Ferris signs everywhere. It's kind of Ferris signs everywhere. It's kind of Ferris signs everywhere. It's kind of like Mark Spain in Atlanta or other like Mark Spain in Atlanta or other like Mark Spain in Atlanta or other well-known real estate agents in the US well-known real estate agents in the US well-known real estate agents in the US who are just dominant. Uh, your signs who are just dominant. Uh, your signs who are just dominant. Uh, your signs are everywhere, but I remember you were are everywhere, but I remember you were are everywhere, but I remember you were saying there was a change in direction saying there was a change in direction saying there was a change in direction in the ad and the billboard you liked in the ad and the billboard you liked in the ad and the billboard you liked the least performed the most. Do you the least performed the most. Do you the least performed the most. Do you remember that conversation or that remember that conversation or that remember that conversation or that pivot? Well, for us there was uh we pivot? Well, for us there was uh we pivot? Well, for us there was uh we started trying to get cute. We started started trying to get cute. We started started trying to get cute. We started listening to other mark quote unquote listening to other mark quote unquote listening to other mark quote unquote marketing specialists where like more marketing specialists where like more marketing specialists where like more lifestyle and so we removed the face and lifestyle and so we removed the face and lifestyle and so we removed the face and we we got because your face is on all we we got because your face is on all we we got because your face is on all the billboards. Yeah. And so we we ended the billboards. Yeah. And so we we ended the billboards. Yeah. And so we we ended up starting to get feedback from people up starting to get feedback from people up starting to get feedback from people that like are you selling the business?

that like are you selling the business? that like are you selling the business? We don't see you around anymore. And it We don't see you around anymore. And it We don't see you around anymore. And it was interesting. We we realized that the was interesting. We we realized that the was interesting. We we realized that the more cute we got where marketing people more cute we got where marketing people more cute we got where marketing people would love the the ads but everyday would love the the ads but everyday would love the the ads but everyday people it was so loud out there the people it was so loud out there the people it was so loud out there the simplicity like was not as strong as simplicity like was not as strong as simplicity like was not as strong as just free home evaluation like Mark just free home evaluation like Mark just free home evaluation like Mark Spain is is guaranteed offer and Spain is is guaranteed offer and Spain is is guaranteed offer and interesting fact actually with Mark interesting fact actually with Mark interesting fact actually with Mark Spain their president and CEO he's Spain their president and CEO he's Spain their president and CEO he's actually now my business partner on actually now my business partner on actually now my business partner on Ferris Capital so he transitioned he's Ferris Capital so he transitioned he's Ferris Capital so he transitioned he's I'm working with him now so they're just I'm working with him now so they're just I'm working with him now so they're just a great company but they're kind of they a great company but they're kind of they a great company but they're kind of they focus on the on the US. And so, but the focus on the on the US. And so, but the focus on the on the US. And so, but the point there is that the point there is that the point there is that the simple approach and consistency is simple approach and consistency is simple approach and consistency is something that we went back to the face something that we went back to the face something that we went back to the face and people they they saw, oh, okay, and people they they saw, oh, okay, and people they they saw, oh, okay, Mark's back. But it was interesting Mark's back. But it was interesting Mark's back. But it was interesting that, you know, the data's got to be that, you know, the data's got to be that, you know, the data's got to be able to tell you that and feedback in able to tell you that and feedback in able to tell you that and feedback in the market. And, you know, we've we've the market. And, you know, we've we've the market. And, you know, we've we've tried multiple different things in the tried multiple different things in the tried multiple different things in the past, but we found simplicity and past, but we found simplicity and past, but we found simplicity and consistency is a key to getting through consistency is a key to getting through consistency is a key to getting through all the loud noise. I mean, people are all the loud noise. I mean, people are all the loud noise. I mean, people are are bombarded now with messaging and so are bombarded now with messaging and so are bombarded now with messaging and so you got to be consistent and and keep it you got to be consistent and and keep it you got to be consistent and and keep it simple in order to break through. You're simple in order to break through. You're simple in order to break through. You're right. There's fewer words on your right. There's fewer words on your right. There's fewer words on your billboards there. I think what's what's billboards there. I think what's what's billboards there. I think what's what's the one you guys are running now? It's the one you guys are running now? It's the one you guys are running now? It's like the sign you've been looking for.

like the sign you've been looking for. like the sign you've been looking for. Yeah. Just free home evaluation. Just a Yeah. Just free home evaluation. Just a Yeah. Just free home evaluation. Just a free home evaluation. It's it's simple. free home evaluation. It's it's simple. free home evaluation. It's it's simple. It's boring yet, you know, it it it It's boring yet, you know, it it it It's boring yet, you know, it it it offers something and there's a clear offers something and there's a clear offers something and there's a clear message to it. And so we just keep it message to it. And so we just keep it message to it. And so we just keep it simple and that's been our approach. simple and that's been our approach. simple and that's been our approach. You have had to go through several You have had to go through several You have had to go through several iterations as a leader from the iterations as a leader from the iterations as a leader from the saleserson banging on the door and your saleserson banging on the door and your saleserson banging on the door and your wife Joanna is amazing and she was she wife Joanna is amazing and she was she wife Joanna is amazing and she was she was your marketing. She did the staging was your marketing. She did the staging was your marketing. She did the staging and everything. Uh actually let me back and everything. Uh actually let me back and everything. Uh actually let me back up before I ask you this. Let me ask you up before I ask you this. Let me ask you up before I ask you this. Let me ask you this. What were some other early things this. What were some other early things this. What were some other early things as soon as you had the money to as soon as you had the money to as soon as you had the money to reinvest? reinvest? reinvest? um you elevated the game in terms of the um you elevated the game in terms of the um you elevated the game in terms of the the um leaflet that you would leave at a the um leaflet that you would leave at a the um leaflet that you would leave at a house. So it wasn't just photocopied at house. So it wasn't just photocopied at house. So it wasn't just photocopied at some office. It was full color, had a CD some office. It was full color, had a CD some office. It was full color, had a CD in it at the time. Um I think you guys in it at the time. Um I think you guys in it at the time. Um I think you guys invested more in staging than the invested more in staging than the invested more in staging than the average realtor. Uh can you explain that average realtor. Uh can you explain that average realtor. Uh can you explain that and maybe a couple of other and maybe a couple of other and maybe a couple of other differentiators? Yeah. That you selected differentiators? Yeah. That you selected differentiators? Yeah. That you selected early on to make your brand stand out?

early on to make your brand stand out? early on to make your brand stand out? So Carrie when we were initially we So Carrie when we were initially we So Carrie when we were initially we started we met and we started talking started we met and we started talking started we met and we started talking actually it's about entrepreneurship and actually it's about entrepreneurship and actually it's about entrepreneurship and business growth and you had actually business growth and you had actually business growth and you had actually recommended this book for if you're recommended this book for if you're recommended this book for if you're listening it's scaling up by Vern Harish listening it's scaling up by Vern Harish listening it's scaling up by Vern Harish and in the book he talks about having and in the book he talks about having and in the book he talks about having three brand promises and so I went down three brand promises and so I went down three brand promises and so I went down this whole journey of figuring out what this whole journey of figuring out what this whole journey of figuring out what our brand promises are and so for us is our brand promises are and so for us is our brand promises are and so for us is professional loving realtors so highly professional loving realtors so highly professional loving realtors so highly trained and professional the next is trained and professional the next is trained and professional the next is exceptional marketing, making sure that exceptional marketing, making sure that exceptional marketing, making sure that we're marketing all of our properties we're marketing all of our properties we're marketing all of our properties really well. So, the staging is tight, really well. So, the staging is tight, really well. So, the staging is tight, the photos and video are amazing, and the photos and video are amazing, and the photos and video are amazing, and everything is is tight, and then the everything is is tight, and then the everything is is tight, and then the best experience, and we back that up best experience, and we back that up best experience, and we back that up with a guarantee. So, they can cancel at with a guarantee. So, they can cancel at with a guarantee. So, they can cancel at any time with us. And so, those three any time with us. And so, those three any time with us. And so, those three brand promises, when it comes down to brand promises, when it comes down to brand promises, when it comes down to investment for us, we're always looking investment for us, we're always looking investment for us, we're always looking at how can we spend money on each of at how can we spend money on each of at how can we spend money on each of those brand promises. And if you think those brand promises. And if you think those brand promises. And if you think of a brand promise as a well, we'll of a brand promise as a well, we'll of a brand promise as a well, we'll we'll call it an iceberg. And so the big we'll call it an iceberg. And so the big we'll call it an iceberg. And so the big the top of the iceberg is the actual the top of the iceberg is the actual the top of the iceberg is the actual brand promise, but underneath is all the brand promise, but underneath is all the brand promise, but underneath is all the infrastructure, the investment, the infrastructure, the investment, the infrastructure, the investment, the capital, the training, the time capital, the training, the time capital, the training, the time allocation, the priorities to be able to allocation, the priorities to be able to allocation, the priorities to be able to support it. And so whenever we were support it. And so whenever we were support it. And so whenever we were spending money, we would look at that spending money, we would look at that spending money, we would look at that and say, "Okay, we want to spend here to and say, "Okay, we want to spend here to and say, "Okay, we want to spend here to make sure that we're delivering on these make sure that we're delivering on these make sure that we're delivering on these main three brand promises."

main three brand promises." main three brand promises." Okay. So why staging? Why was that Okay. So why staging? Why was that Okay. So why staging? Why was that important? Can you explain staging? I important? Can you explain staging? I important? Can you explain staging? I mean, I do have family in real estate. mean, I do have family in real estate. mean, I do have family in real estate. We know you guys. I've bought and sold We know you guys. I've bought and sold We know you guys. I've bought and sold one house in my life. So, I mean, I'm one house in my life. So, I mean, I'm one house in my life. So, I mean, I'm not exactly an expert. Mar, uh, what's not exactly an expert. Mar, uh, what's not exactly an expert. Mar, uh, what's staging? So, staging is the it's the staging? So, staging is the it's the staging? So, staging is the it's the we'll say the journey of bringing a home we'll say the journey of bringing a home we'll say the journey of bringing a home from a a everyday living home to a we'll from a a everyday living home to a we'll from a a everyday living home to a we'll say a property that is showcase to say a property that is showcase to say a property that is showcase to appeal to a buyer and to emotionally appeal to a buyer and to emotionally appeal to a buyer and to emotionally hook them in. So that means if we're to hook them in. So that means if we're to hook them in. So that means if we're to drill it down, making sure that you have drill it down, making sure that you have drill it down, making sure that you have no clutter around, making sure that the no clutter around, making sure that the no clutter around, making sure that the the room flows when it comes to the the room flows when it comes to the the room flows when it comes to the furniture, you have the right art, the furniture, you have the right art, the furniture, you have the right art, the right decor, and you don't have anything right decor, and you don't have anything right decor, and you don't have anything on your counters to at at a very simple on your counters to at at a very simple on your counters to at at a very simple essence. And so that's where we actually essence. And so that's where we actually essence. And so that's where we actually bring in a stager and we help the bring in a stager and we help the bring in a stager and we help the client, the seller, be able to prepare client, the seller, be able to prepare client, the seller, be able to prepare their home. So when a buyer walks their home. So when a buyer walks their home. So when a buyer walks through, they can see it not as the through, they can see it not as the through, they can see it not as the owner's home, but as their future owner's home, but as their future owner's home, but as their future potential home. And so when that's done, potential home. And so when that's done, potential home. And so when that's done, we actually we bring in our photo video we actually we bring in our photo video we actually we bring in our photo video team. And we have all these we've team. And we have all these we've team. And we have all these we've everybody's in house right now, our st everybody's in house right now, our st everybody's in house right now, our st we have a full staging team, photo video we have a full staging team, photo video we have a full staging team, photo video team and and couriers and all the rest.

team and and couriers and all the rest. team and and couriers and all the rest. And so once our video photo video team And so once our video photo video team And so once our video photo video team comes in, they showcase the home. We do comes in, they showcase the home. We do comes in, they showcase the home. We do aerial uh photo and video and then aerial uh photo and video and then aerial uh photo and video and then twilights as well. So it kind of shows twilights as well. So it kind of shows twilights as well. So it kind of shows the sun going down. And then so if that the sun going down. And then so if that the sun going down. And then so if that happens on the Wednesday, we have happens on the Wednesday, we have happens on the Wednesday, we have overnight editors now that that can overnight editors now that that can overnight editors now that that can actually deliver high quality feature actually deliver high quality feature actually deliver high quality feature books on Thursday evening because our books on Thursday evening because our books on Thursday evening because our data and our surveys that we were data and our surveys that we were data and our surveys that we were getting were that when it went on the getting were that when it went on the getting were that when it went on the market, a property went on the market, market, a property went on the market, market, a property went on the market, let's just say Friday morning, they want let's just say Friday morning, they want let's just say Friday morning, they want their feature books all there ready to their feature books all there ready to their feature books all there ready to go. So if a buyer books a showing, they go. So if a buyer books a showing, they go. So if a buyer books a showing, they have a giveaway. And so we had to figure have a giveaway. And so we had to figure have a giveaway. And so we had to figure out with overnight editors on how to out with overnight editors on how to out with overnight editors on how to take photos and video on Wednesday and take photos and video on Wednesday and take photos and video on Wednesday and be able to have it printed and shipped be able to have it printed and shipped be able to have it printed and shipped to the client by Thursday evening, that to the client by Thursday evening, that to the client by Thursday evening, that very next day. So when they woke up in very next day. So when they woke up in very next day. So when they woke up in that morning on Friday, they had them. that morning on Friday, they had them. that morning on Friday, they had them. And so we've gone, it was a whole And so we've gone, it was a whole And so we've gone, it was a whole journey, Carrie, because it was like two journey, Carrie, because it was like two journey, Carrie, because it was like two to three weeks after went on the market, to three weeks after went on the market, to three weeks after went on the market, we deliver these feature books. It's we deliver these feature books. It's we deliver these feature books. It's like that it's already sold by then, like that it's already sold by then, like that it's already sold by then, right? And so that that's the process. right? And so that that's the process. right? And so that that's the process. And for us, we try to take everything in And for us, we try to take everything in And for us, we try to take everything in house as much as possible. We have our house as much as possible. We have our house as much as possible. We have our own couriers and drivers and and so um own couriers and drivers and and so um own couriers and drivers and and so um that was a really big part of the that was a really big part of the that was a really big part of the success um you know on the real estate success um you know on the real estate success um you know on the real estate brokerage side of things. Yeah. And I brokerage side of things. Yeah. And I brokerage side of things. Yeah. And I remember when you were bringing people remember when you were bringing people remember when you were bringing people inhouse because you used independent inhouse because you used independent inhouse because you used independent contractors for a long time, independent contractors for a long time, independent contractors for a long time, independent um you know videographers and um you know videographers and um you know videographers and photographers and everything and that photographers and everything and that photographers and everything and that was a big move for you guys. What is the was a big move for you guys. What is the was a big move for you guys. What is the advantage? And I'm thinking about, you advantage? And I'm thinking about, you advantage? And I'm thinking about, you know, churches that are 1,500 to 3,000.

know, churches that are 1,500 to 3,000. know, churches that are 1,500 to 3,000. They're in that in between point of They're in that in between point of They're in that in between point of part-time to full-time outsourcing part-time to full-time outsourcing part-time to full-time outsourcing versus bringing in maybe even up to uh, versus bringing in maybe even up to uh, versus bringing in maybe even up to uh, you know, 5 million in budget. What have you know, 5 million in budget. What have you know, 5 million in budget. What have been the advantages to having inhouse been the advantages to having inhouse been the advantages to having inhouse people to handle all that? Yeah. Well, people to handle all that? Yeah. Well, people to handle all that? Yeah. Well, the first and foremost is the culture of the first and foremost is the culture of the first and foremost is the culture of the team members that you have in house. the team members that you have in house. the team members that you have in house. That was one of our biggest things like That was one of our biggest things like That was one of our biggest things like we couldn't control the client we couldn't control the client we couldn't control the client experience. And so when we hire people, experience. And so when we hire people, experience. And so when we hire people, we have our core values that we filter we have our core values that we filter we have our core values that we filter people through and and we have our people through and and we have our people through and and we have our process and how we communicate as well. process and how we communicate as well. process and how we communicate as well. So one person needs to talk to the next So one person needs to talk to the next So one person needs to talk to the next person and everybody needs to be person and everybody needs to be person and everybody needs to be informed so that there's no we'll say informed so that there's no we'll say informed so that there's no we'll say telephone telephone telephone tag the game, right? And so the culture tag the game, right? And so the culture tag the game, right? And so the culture in regards to the people, I think that's in regards to the people, I think that's in regards to the people, I think that's first and foremost. And then the ability first and foremost. And then the ability first and foremost. And then the ability to be able to track and to improve the to be able to track and to improve the to be able to track and to improve the client experience. Like for example, client experience. Like for example, client experience. Like for example, when we transitioned from a brokerage when we transitioned from a brokerage when we transitioned from a brokerage where it was we were with Rolla Pages, where it was we were with Rolla Pages, where it was we were with Rolla Pages, kind of like a ReMax in Canada, they kind of like a ReMax in Canada, they kind of like a ReMax in Canada, they were taking all of our initial calls and were taking all of our initial calls and were taking all of our initial calls and then they would transfer the call to us.

then they would transfer the call to us. then they would transfer the call to us. Well, we can control that experience and Well, we can control that experience and Well, we can control that experience and how quick they picked up that phone. So how quick they picked up that phone. So how quick they picked up that phone. So when we brought that in house and we had when we brought that in house and we had when we brought that in house and we had our own reception team, now we track our own reception team, now we track our own reception team, now we track that so that we 99.5% of the time we that so that we 99.5% of the time we that so that we 99.5% of the time we pick it up live. And so that's really pick it up live. And so that's really pick it up live. And so that's really that's amazing. Okay. So, in an age of that's amazing. Okay. So, in an age of that's amazing. Okay. So, in an age of AI and voicemail, I just want to pause AI and voicemail, I just want to pause AI and voicemail, I just want to pause on that. When I call 1 800, whatever, a on that. When I call 1 800, whatever, a on that. When I call 1 800, whatever, a real human being picks up the phone. real human being picks up the phone. real human being picks up the phone. That's right. 95% of the time, I'm That's right. 95% of the time, I'm That's right. 95% of the time, I'm hardcore on that. And here here's the hardcore on that. And here here's the hardcore on that. And here here's the reason. Because when I was calling reason. Because when I was calling reason. Because when I was calling around when I was initially calling around when I was initially calling around when I was initially calling brokerages on who I was going to work brokerages on who I was going to work brokerages on who I was going to work with back in 2007, I had a few not great with back in 2007, I had a few not great with back in 2007, I had a few not great experiences. And one of them I'd called experiences. And one of them I'd called experiences. And one of them I'd called and I got the runaround. And I thought and I got the runaround. And I thought and I got the runaround. And I thought to myself, whoa, if I'm experiencing to myself, whoa, if I'm experiencing to myself, whoa, if I'm experiencing this, probably my clients are going to this, probably my clients are going to this, probably my clients are going to experience it as well. So, I didn't experience it as well. So, I didn't experience it as well. So, I didn't interview them. Now, that would have interview them. Now, that would have interview them. Now, that would have been millions of dollars to that been millions of dollars to that been millions of dollars to that brokerage if I went there because I like brokerage if I went there because I like brokerage if I went there because I like the broker when I met met them later. the broker when I met met them later. the broker when I met met them later. And so, I thought to myself, oh my And so, I thought to myself, oh my And so, I thought to myself, oh my goodness, if that's not a great goodness, if that's not a great goodness, if that's not a great experience within that first call and experience within that first call and experience within that first call and that's where for any of the church that's where for any of the church that's where for any of the church leaders, that first call when they pick leaders, that first call when they pick leaders, that first call when they pick up that that to me, I tell the we call up that that to me, I tell the we call up that that to me, I tell the we call them our connection team, their them our connection team, their them our connection team, their receptionists. I tell them you're one of receptionists. I tell them you're one of receptionists. I tell them you're one of the most important important people in the most important important people in the most important important people in the whole company because you're that the whole company because you're that the whole company because you're that first experience. And so how well that first experience. And so how well that first experience. And so how well that goes, it sets the tone.

goes, it sets the tone. goes, it sets the tone. See, this is this is f this taking me See, this is this is f this taking me See, this is this is f this taking me back to the launch of Kexus. And I back to the launch of Kexus. And I back to the launch of Kexus. And I remember, you know, we're bootstrapping remember, you know, we're bootstrapping remember, you know, we're bootstrapping it. We we don't have money, the whole it. We we don't have money, the whole it. We we don't have money, the whole deal. And one of the decisions I made is deal. And one of the decisions I made is deal. And one of the decisions I made is uh so first of all, that was in 2007. uh so first of all, that was in 2007. uh so first of all, that was in 2007. This is 2025. People would say nobody This is 2025. People would say nobody This is 2025. People would say nobody talks on the phone anymore. Gen Z has talks on the phone anymore. Gen Z has talks on the phone anymore. Gen Z has phone anxiety, etc., etc. But I was phone anxiety, etc., etc. But I was phone anxiety, etc., etc. But I was calling around to help somebody with a calling around to help somebody with a calling around to help somebody with a property that they're vagating, just a property that they're vagating, just a property that they're vagating, just a family member, and I had to call like family member, and I had to call like family member, and I had to call like uh, you know, removal companies to take uh, you know, removal companies to take uh, you know, removal companies to take some stuff away that we're not going to some stuff away that we're not going to some stuff away that we're not going to use. I want to talk to a real person. I use. I want to talk to a real person. I use. I want to talk to a real person. I was chatting with a chatbot last night was chatting with a chatbot last night was chatting with a chatbot last night online. The chatbot was great, but the online. The chatbot was great, but the online. The chatbot was great, but the chatbot lied. And when I got the real chatbot lied. And when I got the real chatbot lied. And when I got the real person, they're like, "Yeah, we don't person, they're like, "Yeah, we don't person, they're like, "Yeah, we don't really do that." Um, and and you know, I really do that." Um, and and you know, I really do that." Um, and and you know, I I I call sometimes I call really small I I call sometimes I call really small I I call sometimes I call really small businesses and like Joe's Garage and you businesses and like Joe's Garage and you businesses and like Joe's Garage and you get like, uh, welcome to Joe's Garage get like, uh, welcome to Joe's Garage get like, uh, welcome to Joe's Garage with some nice music. Somebody will be with some nice music. Somebody will be with some nice music. Somebody will be with you in a minute. I'm like, Joe, with you in a minute. I'm like, Joe, with you in a minute. I'm like, Joe, pick up the phone, dude. Like, get pick up the phone, dude. Like, get pick up the phone, dude. Like, get somebody to pick up the phone. So, when somebody to pick up the phone. So, when somebody to pick up the phone. So, when we were starting Kexus all those years we were starting Kexus all those years we were starting Kexus all those years ago, I was like, we need someone at the ago, I was like, we need someone at the ago, I was like, we need someone at the front desk on reception answering the front desk on reception answering the front desk on reception answering the phone live. Yeah. And I remember getting phone live. Yeah. And I remember getting phone live. Yeah. And I remember getting so much push back for that 18 years ago so much push back for that 18 years ago so much push back for that 18 years ago because people thought it was because people thought it was because people thought it was antiquated. If I was starting again antiquated. If I was starting again antiquated. If I was starting again today and I had a bricks and mortar today and I had a bricks and mortar today and I had a bricks and mortar business 100% I would be like we're business 100% I would be like we're business 100% I would be like we're going to differentiate ourselves by going to differentiate ourselves by going to differentiate ourselves by having a live human picking up the having a live human picking up the having a live human picking up the phone. Do you want to go through you and phone. Do you want to go through you and phone. Do you want to go through you and I have talked about that. I want you to

I have talked about that. I want you to I have talked about that. I want you to break down that decision and why it break down that decision and why it break down that decision and why it matters because so many of us we are in matters because so many of us we are in matters because so many of us we are in the customer service business one way or the customer service business one way or the customer service business one way or the other. Why does that matter in an the other. Why does that matter in an the other. Why does that matter in an age of AI? age of AI? age of AI? Well, first off, I that's my own Well, first off, I that's my own Well, first off, I that's my own experience. When I call any sort of experience. When I call any sort of experience. When I call any sort of business, I'm calling the bank. I'm just business, I'm calling the bank. I'm just business, I'm calling the bank. I'm just like 0000. And if they don't say that, like 0000. And if they don't say that, like 0000. And if they don't say that, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, and so, you know, our our clients are and so, you know, our our clients are and so, you know, our our clients are more affluent clients. And so, in more affluent clients. And so, in more affluent clients. And so, in general, they want to have a great general, they want to have a great general, they want to have a great experience when you call and you want to experience when you call and you want to experience when you call and you want to speak to somebody. And that's been for speak to somebody. And that's been for speak to somebody. And that's been for my own, that's what I want. And so if I my own, that's what I want. And so if I my own, that's what I want. And so if I call a a company and I don't get call a a company and I don't get call a a company and I don't get somebody live, that to me is like strike somebody live, that to me is like strike somebody live, that to me is like strike one. But strike two is if I speak to one. But strike two is if I speak to one. But strike two is if I speak to somebody, I they the experience needs to somebody, I they the experience needs to somebody, I they the experience needs to be a wow. Like if they are super be a wow. Like if they are super be a wow. Like if they are super friendly, I it it is it makes that friendly, I it it is it makes that friendly, I it it is it makes that business stand out in a real big way. business stand out in a real big way. business stand out in a real big way. And so this is where for us it came down And so this is where for us it came down And so this is where for us it came down to if we if we miss one time that can be to if we if we miss one time that can be to if we if we miss one time that can be tens of thousands of dollars that we tens of thousands of dollars that we tens of thousands of dollars that we could lose out on. And so, not only could lose out on. And so, not only could lose out on. And so, not only that, it wrecks our brand as well that, it wrecks our brand as well that, it wrecks our brand as well because if people make a decision, they because if people make a decision, they because if people make a decision, they have a bad first experience. So, here's have a bad first experience. So, here's have a bad first experience. So, here's another here's another example. So, with another here's another example. So, with another here's another example. So, with our investment properties, when we go our investment properties, when we go our investment properties, when we go buy these apartment buildings, that's buy these apartment buildings, that's buy these apartment buildings, that's their other side of the businesses at their other side of the businesses at their other side of the businesses at Ferris Capital Partners. We go in, we Ferris Capital Partners. We go in, we Ferris Capital Partners. We go in, we buy these 100 unit apartment buildings, buy these 100 unit apartment buildings, buy these 100 unit apartment buildings, we partner with investors, and we buy in we partner with investors, and we buy in we partner with investors, and we buy in these the southeast market. So, Atlanta, these the southeast market. So, Atlanta, these the southeast market. So, Atlanta, Charleston, Tampa. And so the number one

Charleston, Tampa. And so the number one Charleston, Tampa. And so the number one thing we do when we take over a thing we do when we take over a thing we do when we take over a building, it seems so simple yet it's so building, it seems so simple yet it's so building, it seems so simple yet it's so such a big drastic change is that when such a big drastic change is that when such a big drastic change is that when we buy the properties, we change the we buy the properties, we change the we buy the properties, we change the property manager out to somebody property manager out to somebody property manager out to somebody friendly. friendly. friendly. Like a nice human being. Is that what Like a nice human being. Is that what Like a nice human being. Is that what you're saying? Shocked, Carrie. Just you're saying? Shocked, Carrie. Just you're saying? Shocked, Carrie. Just shocked. Just by transitioning to shocked. Just by transitioning to shocked. Just by transitioning to somebody that is super friendly, that is somebody that is super friendly, that is somebody that is super friendly, that is professional, that has a genuine love of professional, that has a genuine love of professional, that has a genuine love of people. We give them the the the mission people. We give them the the the mission people. We give them the the the mission statement of the community, the core statement of the community, the core statement of the community, the core values. We make sure they're filtered values. We make sure they're filtered values. We make sure they're filtered through. That is the number one thing. through. That is the number one thing. through. That is the number one thing. And so when we look for buildings, we And so when we look for buildings, we And so when we look for buildings, we look for Google reviews from the look for Google reviews from the look for Google reviews from the property management team coming in. Like property management team coming in. Like property management team coming in. Like three three out of five, we're like, three three out of five, we're like, three three out of five, we're like, "Oh, this is lowhanging fruit. This is "Oh, this is lowhanging fruit. This is "Oh, this is lowhanging fruit. This is beautiful." Just by changing to somebody beautiful." Just by changing to somebody beautiful." Just by changing to somebody that's friendly, that has a genuine love that's friendly, that has a genuine love that's friendly, that has a genuine love of people because people are coming in of people because people are coming in of people because people are coming in new residents. if they have a bad new residents. if they have a bad new residents. if they have a bad experience with that property manager experience with that property manager experience with that property manager Carrie like you'd be you I'm not going Carrie like you'd be you I'm not going Carrie like you'd be you I'm not going to live here they're going to be the one to live here they're going to be the one to live here they're going to be the one looking after me and now we're talking looking after me and now we're talking looking after me and now we're talking about hundreds of units these are tens about hundreds of units these are tens about hundreds of units these are tens of millions of dollars buildings and of millions of dollars buildings and of millions of dollars buildings and just think about the loss that they're just think about the loss that they're just think about the loss that they're having and so now tying it to all having and so now tying it to all having and so now tying it to all businesses all churches all community businesses all churches all community businesses all churches all community any anything where where there's anybody any anything where where there's anybody any anything where where there's anybody is coming in and there needs to be an is coming in and there needs to be an is coming in and there needs to be an experience delivered that first step is experience delivered that first step is experience delivered that first step is that first impression. People make an that first impression. People make an that first impression. People make an make a decision if they like you or not make a decision if they like you or not make a decision if they like you or not within the first seven seconds. And I within the first seven seconds. And I within the first seven seconds. And I know Daniel Pink talks about like, you know Daniel Pink talks about like, you know Daniel Pink talks about like, you know, very strong endings, but if you know, very strong endings, but if you know, very strong endings, but if you don't make it a wow at the beginning,

don't make it a wow at the beginning, don't make it a wow at the beginning, you won't get a shot to serve you won't get a shot to serve you won't get a shot to serve them. You know, I've I've said this to them. You know, I've I've said this to them. You know, I've I've said this to Chick-fil-A executives, add infin item, Chick-fil-A executives, add infin item, Chick-fil-A executives, add infin item, but I love their chicken sandwich, but I love their chicken sandwich, but I love their chicken sandwich, waffle fries for the win, the whole waffle fries for the win, the whole waffle fries for the win, the whole deal. I think what they really export deal. I think what they really export deal. I think what they really export and what they really do and I've talked and what they really do and I've talked and what they really do and I've talked to the Cathy's about this. It's like you to the Cathy's about this. It's like you to the Cathy's about this. It's like you guys know how to train 17 year olds to guys know how to train 17 year olds to guys know how to train 17 year olds to be amazing customer service people. Uh I be amazing customer service people. Uh I be amazing customer service people. Uh I got to ask you, you do the same thing. got to ask you, you do the same thing. got to ask you, you do the same thing. So, but in a different field entirely. So, but in a different field entirely. So, but in a different field entirely. Yeah. How do you hire for that? How do Yeah. How do you hire for that? How do Yeah. How do you hire for that? How do you select for that? Can you turn a you select for that? Can you turn a you select for that? Can you turn a negative people person into a positive negative people person into a positive negative people person into a positive people person or does the DNA have to be people person or does the DNA have to be people person or does the DNA have to be there? Can you break that down a little there? Can you break that down a little there? Can you break that down a little bit, Mark? Today's episode is brought to bit, Mark? Today's episode is brought to bit, Mark? Today's episode is brought to you by The Art of Leadership Academy. you by The Art of Leadership Academy. you by The Art of Leadership Academy. And today I've got some huge news. And today I've got some huge news. And today I've got some huge news. Getting expert guidance, proven Getting expert guidance, proven Getting expert guidance, proven strategies, and practical tools to grow strategies, and practical tools to grow strategies, and practical tools to grow your leadership in your church just got your leadership in your church just got your leadership in your church just got way easier. For the very first time, way easier. For the very first time, way easier. For the very first time, I've opened up free access to the Art of I've opened up free access to the Art of I've opened up free access to the Art of Leadership Academy. So, you can join Leadership Academy. So, you can join Leadership Academy. So, you can join thousands of leaders inside the thousands of leaders inside the thousands of leaders inside the community as a free member. Free for the community as a free member. Free for the community as a free member. Free for the first time. Here's what you're going to first time. Here's what you're going to first time. Here's what you're going to get. Ongoing discussion around each get. Ongoing discussion around each get. Ongoing discussion around each episode of this podcast, unlimited episode of this podcast, unlimited episode of this podcast, unlimited access to our growing library of access to our growing library of access to our growing library of articles, live quarterly webinars to articles, live quarterly webinars to articles, live quarterly webinars to help you grow, and most importantly, help you grow, and most importantly, help you grow, and most importantly, access to a thriving community of access to a thriving community of access to a thriving community of leaders just like you. It's a single leaders just like you. It's a single leaders just like you. It's a single space to learn, connect, and lead even space to learn, connect, and lead even space to learn, connect, and lead even better. So, if you've been on the fence better. So, if you've been on the fence better. So, if you've been on the fence and maybe you've heard about the

and maybe you've heard about the and maybe you've heard about the academy, but you want to find out what academy, but you want to find out what academy, but you want to find out what it's all about, now is the perfect time it's all about, now is the perfect time it's all about, now is the perfect time to act. So, there's a special way to to act. So, there's a special way to to act. So, there's a special way to join and it's pretty straightforward. join and it's pretty straightforward. join and it's pretty straightforward. Simply click the link in the description Simply click the link in the description Simply click the link in the description of this episode. You can create a free of this episode. You can create a free of this episode. You can create a free account and boom, you're in. It's a account and boom, you're in. It's a account and boom, you're in. It's a special link, so make sure you use that special link, so make sure you use that special link, so make sure you use that one. Again, click the link in the one. Again, click the link in the one. Again, click the link in the description of this episode, enter your description of this episode, enter your description of this episode, enter your name and email, and you're in. I can't name and email, and you're in. I can't name and email, and you're in. I can't wait to see you inside. I have uh Darren wait to see you inside. I have uh Darren wait to see you inside. I have uh Darren Hardy. you probably for the listeners Hardy. you probably for the listeners Hardy. you probably for the listeners out there, he's probably the mo well out there, he's probably the mo well out there, he's probably the mo well he's he's like the modern day Napoleon he's he's like the modern day Napoleon he's he's like the modern day Napoleon Hill and just a real genius when it Hill and just a real genius when it Hill and just a real genius when it comes down to marketing and business comes down to marketing and business comes down to marketing and business growth and overall success. So he shared growth and overall success. So he shared growth and overall success. So he shared the story where he went to the Marriott the story where he went to the Marriott the story where he went to the Marriott and he was going to meet the the and he was going to meet the the and he was going to meet the the president of the Marriott the next day. president of the Marriott the next day. president of the Marriott the next day. So he checked in, the Bellman greeted So he checked in, the Bellman greeted So he checked in, the Bellman greeted him. He was super friendly. He went to him. He was super friendly. He went to him. He was super friendly. He went to the front desk, the lady welcomed him. the front desk, the lady welcomed him. the front desk, the lady welcomed him. She was super friendly. Went up, ordered She was super friendly. Went up, ordered She was super friendly. Went up, ordered room service. room service came up. They room service. room service came up. They room service. room service came up. They were super friendly. The next day he were super friendly. The next day he were super friendly. The next day he meets the president and says, "How on meets the president and says, "How on meets the president and says, "How on earth do you train everybody to be so earth do you train everybody to be so earth do you train everybody to be so friendly? I I want to know how do you do friendly? I I want to know how do you do friendly? I I want to know how do you do it?" He's like, "Well, what do you it?" He's like, "Well, what do you it?" He's like, "Well, what do you mean?" He's like, "Well, everybody I've mean?" He's like, "Well, everybody I've mean?" He's like, "Well, everybody I've met so far has been super friendly. It's met so far has been super friendly. It's met so far has been super friendly. It's amazing. I want to know. Tell me." He amazing. I want to know. Tell me." He amazing. I want to know. Tell me." He thinks about it for a second. He goes thinks about it for a second. He goes thinks about it for a second. He goes He's like, "We don't train people to be He's like, "We don't train people to be He's like, "We don't train people to be friendly. We hire friendly friendly. We hire friendly friendly. We hire friendly people." And Darren's like, "Oh man."

people." And Darren's like, "Oh man." people." And Darren's like, "Oh man." So, you know, for us through the years, So, you know, for us through the years, So, you know, for us through the years, I've tried changing people and I've gone I've tried changing people and I've gone I've tried changing people and I've gone down that route. But for us, I don't down that route. But for us, I don't down that route. But for us, I don't want to take that bet anymore. So, our want to take that bet anymore. So, our want to take that bet anymore. So, our filter is very strong. If they don't filter is very strong. If they don't filter is very strong. If they don't have a genuine love of people, as in have a genuine love of people, as in have a genuine love of people, as in when I meet them, if I'm not feeling the when I meet them, if I'm not feeling the when I meet them, if I'm not feeling the love immediate from them, they're just love immediate from them, they're just love immediate from them, they're just they're not a fit. And they'll probably they're not a fit. And they'll probably they're not a fit. And they'll probably be a fit somewhere else, but just not be a fit somewhere else, but just not be a fit somewhere else, but just not with us. And so, for us, there's three with us. And so, for us, there's three with us. And so, for us, there's three things that we look for. Number one is a things that we look for. Number one is a things that we look for. Number one is a genuine love of people. Number two, they genuine love of people. Number two, they genuine love of people. Number two, they have a willingness to work hard. And have a willingness to work hard. And have a willingness to work hard. And number three, they have a willingness to number three, they have a willingness to number three, they have a willingness to learn. And so if they have those three learn. And so if they have those three learn. And so if they have those three things, they have all the ingredients to things, they have all the ingredients to things, they have all the ingredients to be a massive success because we have the be a massive success because we have the be a massive success because we have the rollout plan. Like we've we've rollout plan. Like we've we've rollout plan. Like we've we've documented here's how you go in on a documented here's how you go in on a documented here's how you go in on a listing, here's how you go on a pres on listing, here's how you go on a pres on listing, here's how you go on a pres on the buyer side, here's how we the buyer side, here's how we the buyer side, here's how we communicate. And so one of the communicate. And so one of the communicate. And so one of the challenges I found from some people that challenges I found from some people that challenges I found from some people that have come on, they're they're have come on, they're they're have come on, they're they're intelligent, like super educated and intelligent, like super educated and intelligent, like super educated and just wicked smart, but will say, "Okay, just wicked smart, but will say, "Okay, just wicked smart, but will say, "Okay, go and learn this." And they'll come go and learn this." And they'll come go and learn this." And they'll come back and they're like, "Well, I'm kind back and they're like, "Well, I'm kind back and they're like, "Well, I'm kind of tweaked this a little." They spend of tweaked this a little." They spend of tweaked this a little." They spend all the time trying to tweak instead of all the time trying to tweak instead of all the time trying to tweak instead of just learning it and executing. I'm just learning it and executing. I'm just learning it and executing. I'm like, "Please don't. Just go." And and like, "Please don't. Just go." And and like, "Please don't. Just go." And and so learn once you learn. I think that so learn once you learn. I think that so learn once you learn. I think that the willingness to learn and be humble the willingness to learn and be humble the willingness to learn and be humble enough and just to do what's said I enough and just to do what's said I enough and just to do what's said I think is it's of untold importance when think is it's of untold importance when think is it's of untold importance when you hire people on and that's not you hire people on and that's not you hire people on and that's not something you can train.

something you can train. something you can train. What difference does having a live What difference does having a live What difference does having a live person I know we're spending a lot of person I know we're spending a lot of person I know we're spending a lot of time on answering the phone but I think time on answering the phone but I think time on answering the phone but I think there's a parable here a lesson here. there's a parable here a lesson here. there's a parable here a lesson here. Um, you know, I've I've read some of the Um, you know, I've I've read some of the Um, you know, I've I've read some of the data and you'll have it more at top of data and you'll have it more at top of data and you'll have it more at top of mind than I do, but you know, if mind than I do, but you know, if mind than I do, but you know, if somebody uh if I call you and I get a somebody uh if I call you and I get a somebody uh if I call you and I get a response within the first 60 seconds or response within the first 60 seconds or response within the first 60 seconds or so, you're far more likely to make the so, you're far more likely to make the so, you're far more likely to make the sale. If it's 10 minutes, the odds of sale. If it's 10 minutes, the odds of sale. If it's 10 minutes, the odds of you making a sale drop. If it's an hour you making a sale drop. If it's an hour you making a sale drop. If it's an hour or the next day, by the time the next or the next day, by the time the next or the next day, by the time the next day hits, you're probably not making the day hits, you're probably not making the day hits, you're probably not making the sale. Do you want to talk a little bit sale. Do you want to talk a little bit sale. Do you want to talk a little bit about um just drill down one more time about um just drill down one more time about um just drill down one more time on the live receptionist going uh you on the live receptionist going uh you on the live receptionist going uh you know Ferris team Carrie speaking how why know Ferris team Carrie speaking how why know Ferris team Carrie speaking how why why is that so important and what why is that so important and what why is that so important and what difference does it make? Yeah. So, difference does it make? Yeah. So, difference does it make? Yeah. So, there's two parts to this, Carrie. First there's two parts to this, Carrie. First there's two parts to this, Carrie. First is when there's an email online lead is when there's an email online lead is when there's an email online lead that comes comes in. So, there's an that comes comes in. So, there's an that comes comes in. So, there's an inquiry. For us, it's 5 minutes. The inquiry. For us, it's 5 minutes. The inquiry. For us, it's 5 minutes. The average response time in real estate is average response time in real estate is average response time in real estate is actually 16 hours response time. So, if actually 16 hours response time. So, if actually 16 hours response time. So, if you're within 5 minutes, you're within 5 minutes, you're within 5 minutes, you're you're way ahead of the game. And you're you're way ahead of the game. And you're you're way ahead of the game. And so, people are caught in that. So, when so, people are caught in that. So, when so, people are caught in that. So, when they reach out and they they fill out a they reach out and they they fill out a they reach out and they they fill out a form, they're mentally in that state. If form, they're mentally in that state. If form, they're mentally in that state. If you wait longer than 5 minutes, they're you wait longer than 5 minutes, they're you wait longer than 5 minutes, they're probably getting, you know, the kids are probably getting, you know, the kids are probably getting, you know, the kids are screaming in the background. they get screaming in the background. they get screaming in the background. they get distracted and then they mentally move distracted and then they mentally move distracted and then they mentally move on. Well, and they might be emailing on. Well, and they might be emailing on. Well, and they might be emailing five different firms at the same time.

five different firms at the same time. five different firms at the same time. Cut, paste, send. So that's really Cut, paste, send. So that's really Cut, paste, send. So that's really important that and just by the way, when important that and just by the way, when important that and just by the way, when you reach out, you're creating an you reach out, you're creating an you reach out, you're creating an experience of your personal brand. So experience of your personal brand. So experience of your personal brand. So you imprint. So that's really important, you imprint. So that's really important, you imprint. So that's really important, the speed in regards to response for the speed in regards to response for the speed in regards to response for online leads. But for people that are online leads. But for people that are online leads. But for people that are actually calling in that you pick up actually calling in that you pick up actually calling in that you pick up live, it's like you so that they're not live, it's like you so that they're not live, it's like you so that they're not on on weight and and for on on weight and and for on on weight and and for the.5% of the people that are on on the.5% of the people that are on on the.5% of the people that are on on they're put on hold when we're in they're put on hold when we're in they're put on hold when we're in between. We actually have a full out between. We actually have a full out between. We actually have a full out song that we created. We got to go full song that we created. We got to go full song that we created. We got to go full full. So I'm not gonna I'm not a great full. So I'm not gonna I'm not a great full. So I'm not gonna I'm not a great singer here, Carrie, but Josh sang it singer here, Carrie, but Josh sang it singer here, Carrie, but Josh sang it for us. Um you know Yeah. And so the the for us. Um you know Yeah. And so the the for us. Um you know Yeah. And so the the point there is that we really wanted to point there is that we really wanted to point there is that we really wanted to curate that the experience from that curate that the experience from that curate that the experience from that very first connection all the way very first connection all the way very first connection all the way through. And so what we've done Carrie through. And so what we've done Carrie through. And so what we've done Carrie is we've mapped out every touch point is we've mapped out every touch point is we've mapped out every touch point from that first entry call and how we from that first entry call and how we from that first entry call and how we can make that a well to the we'll say can make that a well to the we'll say can make that a well to the we'll say the inside sales rep that speaks with the inside sales rep that speaks with the inside sales rep that speaks with them to the agent that shows up with a them to the agent that shows up with a them to the agent that shows up with a gift bag with with coffee mugs there gift bag with with coffee mugs there gift bag with with coffee mugs there that's branded to the presentation to that's branded to the presentation to that's branded to the presentation to the wow with the staging. we're bringing the wow with the staging. we're bringing the wow with the staging. we're bringing like so every step along the way we try like so every step along the way we try like so every step along the way we try and add a little bit of a wow to it and add a little bit of a wow to it and add a little bit of a wow to it that's unexpected and by doing that we that's unexpected and by doing that we that's unexpected and by doing that we found like the the likelihood that found like the the likelihood that found like the the likelihood that they're going to refer friends and they're going to refer friends and they're going to refer friends and family member go up drastically but the family member go up drastically but the family member go up drastically but the first call that needs to be looked at first call that needs to be looked at first call that needs to be looked at and for us we look at that and for us we look at that and for us we look at that as the first step in in a number of

as the first step in in a number of as the first step in in a number of steps that we need to make at tight wow steps that we need to make at tight wow steps that we need to make at tight wow as much as possible because if we don't as much as possible because if we don't as much as possible because if we don't get it right at the first that I would get it right at the first that I would get it right at the first that I would say is probably one of the most say is probably one of the most say is probably one of the most important then we may not get second or important then we may not get second or important then we may not get second or third shot uh to be able to experience third shot uh to be able to experience third shot uh to be able to experience you know how how good we are at it. So you know how how good we are at it. So you know how how good we are at it. So um any thoughts on on wow moments? I um any thoughts on on wow moments? I um any thoughts on on wow moments? I think church leaders and business think church leaders and business think church leaders and business leaders are always trying to experience leaders are always trying to experience leaders are always trying to experience it and I want to give you a little it and I want to give you a little it and I want to give you a little example from our company. So you know example from our company. So you know example from our company. So you know when this is over I've already got it on when this is over I've already got it on when this is over I've already got it on my desk. I'm going to send you a thank my desk. I'm going to send you a thank my desk. I'm going to send you a thank you card that's handwritten. Uh and then you card that's handwritten. Uh and then you card that's handwritten. Uh and then we've always given out different gifts. we've always given out different gifts. we've always given out different gifts. We've given out root stuff, you know, We've given out root stuff, you know, We've given out root stuff, you know, which is classic Canadian socks, which is classic Canadian socks, which is classic Canadian socks, hoodies, that kind of stuff. Lately, we hoodies, that kind of stuff. Lately, we hoodies, that kind of stuff. Lately, we pivoted to luggage tags that are pivoted to luggage tags that are pivoted to luggage tags that are monogrammed. So, I'm ruining this, okay? monogrammed. So, I'm ruining this, okay? monogrammed. So, I'm ruining this, okay? You're probably going to get uh, you You're probably going to get uh, you You're probably going to get uh, you know, your initials monogrammed on a know, your initials monogrammed on a know, your initials monogrammed on a luggage tag. And it's not the most luggage tag. And it's not the most luggage tag. And it's not the most expensive gift in the world. Uh, but expensive gift in the world. Uh, but expensive gift in the world. Uh, but it's thoughtful and it's personalized it's thoughtful and it's personalized it's thoughtful and it's personalized and it's nicely packaged and everything. and it's nicely packaged and everything. and it's nicely packaged and everything. And Mark, I I I got to tell you the And Mark, I I I got to tell you the And Mark, I I I got to tell you the number of people who are like worldclass number of people who are like worldclass number of people who are like worldclass people that I have on this podcast who people that I have on this podcast who people that I have on this podcast who will text me or DM me and go, I can't will text me or DM me and go, I can't will text me or DM me and go, I can't believe you got me a luggage tag. Like I believe you got me a luggage tag. Like I believe you got me a luggage tag. Like I just, you know, mine just died and I just, you know, mine just died and I just, you know, mine just died and I needed a new one and that was so needed a new one and that was so needed a new one and that was so thoughtful. Thank you so much for your thoughtful. Thank you so much for your thoughtful. Thank you so much for your note and the luggage tag. And I'm like, note and the luggage tag. And I'm like, note and the luggage tag. And I'm like, you could probably buy a luggage tag.

you could probably buy a luggage tag. you could probably buy a luggage tag. Like, you know, we didn't give you Like, you know, we didn't give you Like, you know, we didn't give you something you couldn't get, but that something you couldn't get, but that something you couldn't get, but that seems to be like a a little wow, a seems to be like a a little wow, a seems to be like a a little wow, a personalized thing along the way. What personalized thing along the way. What personalized thing along the way. What are you learning? And what my point are you learning? And what my point are you learning? And what my point being, they're not cheap, but they're being, they're not cheap, but they're being, they're not cheap, but they're not terribly expensive. This isn't a not terribly expensive. This isn't a not terribly expensive. This isn't a $500 luggage tag. Okay. Yeah. Um, but $500 luggage tag. Okay. Yeah. Um, but $500 luggage tag. Okay. Yeah. Um, but often it's little things that turn the often it's little things that turn the often it's little things that turn the dial. So, when you think about a wow dial. So, when you think about a wow dial. So, when you think about a wow experience, a live person picking up the experience, a live person picking up the experience, a live person picking up the phone, what are some other like things phone, what are some other like things phone, what are some other like things that you have learned really elevate it that you have learned really elevate it that you have learned really elevate it for a guest experience, customer for a guest experience, customer for a guest experience, customer experience? experience? experience? Well, the first step is to map out each Well, the first step is to map out each Well, the first step is to map out each of the touch points so that you know of the touch points so that you know of the touch points so that you know every single touch along the way and every single touch along the way and every single touch along the way and then understanding as well and actually then understanding as well and actually then understanding as well and actually writing down what is their emotional writing down what is their emotional writing down what is their emotional state. Are they curious? Are they a state. Are they curious? Are they a state. Are they curious? Are they a little fearful? Are they scared? And I little fearful? Are they scared? And I little fearful? Are they scared? And I think if you understand emotionally think if you understand emotionally think if you understand emotionally where they are, then you you're able to where they are, then you you're able to where they are, then you you're able to think we'll say how can we alleviate think we'll say how can we alleviate think we'll say how can we alleviate that emotion or how can we maybe double that emotion or how can we maybe double that emotion or how can we maybe double down on that? So I think that's the down on that? So I think that's the down on that? So I think that's the first when you map it out and and just first when you map it out and and just first when you map it out and and just having some fun with your team members having some fun with your team members having some fun with your team members is like how can we make that a while and is like how can we make that a while and is like how can we make that a while and it's pretty incredible that you know it's pretty incredible that you know it's pretty incredible that you know like for the the church leaders that get like for the the church leaders that get like for the the church leaders that get just get a group together and people just get a group together and people just get a group together and people love giving their opinions and then you love giving their opinions and then you love giving their opinions and then you know you you you measure it and and test know you you you measure it and and test know you you you measure it and and test as in you know what kind of feedback as in you know what kind of feedback as in you know what kind of feedback that you get and so we've learned quite that you get and so we've learned quite that you get and so we've learned quite a bit through the years. Now, the one a bit through the years. Now, the one a bit through the years. Now, the one thing that we we learned, and this plays thing that we we learned, and this plays thing that we we learned, and this plays in really well with what you're you've in really well with what you're you've in really well with what you're you've done with personalizing, is that rather done with personalizing, is that rather done with personalizing, is that rather than putting Ferris team on the gift,

than putting Ferris team on the gift, than putting Ferris team on the gift, when you put their name on the gift, when you put their name on the gift, when you put their name on the gift, it's much more impactful. And so, we've it's much more impactful. And so, we've it's much more impactful. And so, we've learned that learned that learned that for investors, when you close on a deal, for investors, when you close on a deal, for investors, when you close on a deal, we we send out a Sonos speaker and we we we send out a Sonos speaker and we we we send out a Sonos speaker and we put their name on it. And it's like, oh put their name on it. And it's like, oh put their name on it. And it's like, oh my goodness, we had people that they my goodness, we had people that they my goodness, we had people that they were just super like super happy. It's were just super like super happy. It's were just super like super happy. It's like, oh my goodness, this is amazing. like, oh my goodness, this is amazing. like, oh my goodness, this is amazing. Like brokers, broker gifts, like we'll Like brokers, broker gifts, like we'll Like brokers, broker gifts, like we'll we'll send that and we'll put their name we'll send that and we'll put their name we'll send that and we'll put their name on it. And so that's where I think that on it. And so that's where I think that on it. And so that's where I think that anytime you can personalize. Now, when anytime you can personalize. Now, when anytime you can personalize. Now, when you're dealing with massive amount of you're dealing with massive amount of you're dealing with massive amount of clients or you know, you you got to have clients or you know, you you got to have clients or you know, you you got to have a process for this. And I think that's a process for this. And I think that's a process for this. And I think that's what makes it so rare is that people what makes it so rare is that people what makes it so rare is that people know that you know, you've personalized know that you know, you've personalized know that you know, you've personalized it. And so anytime you can tie it to it. And so anytime you can tie it to it. And so anytime you can tie it to something specific, something specific, something specific, um, you know, like there's a book that um, you know, like there's a book that um, you know, like there's a book that you talked about and you can you can you talked about and you can you can you talked about and you can you can personalize it and put a little note, I personalize it and put a little note, I personalize it and put a little note, I think it shows that you're listening as think it shows that you're listening as think it shows that you're listening as well. And so Giftologology is a really well. And so Giftologology is a really well. And so Giftologology is a really good book. I think you've read that. good book. I think you've read that. good book. I think you've read that. Well, yeah, we've had John, Well, yeah, we've had John, Well, yeah, we've had John, unfortunately, he passed away very unfortunately, he passed away very unfortunately, he passed away very young, but we've had him on the podcast.

young, but we've had him on the podcast. young, but we've had him on the podcast. We'll link to that in the show notes. We'll link to that in the show notes. We'll link to that in the show notes. Um, Mark, let's talk about you Um, Mark, let's talk about you Um, Mark, let's talk about you reinventing yourself from the guy reinventing yourself from the guy reinventing yourself from the guy knocking on doors from 38 sales to how knocking on doors from 38 sales to how knocking on doors from 38 sales to how many houses will you sell now this year many houses will you sell now this year many houses will you sell now this year in Canada? Well, so over 13,000. So, we in Canada? Well, so over 13,000. So, we in Canada? Well, so over 13,000. So, we sell about a million a year in real sell about a million a year in real sell about a million a year in real estate now. Um, so I I got to a point estate now. Um, so I I got to a point estate now. Um, so I I got to a point where yeah, we're leading the team doing where yeah, we're leading the team doing where yeah, we're leading the team doing a,000 sales and I was doing 150 homes a,000 sales and I was doing 150 homes a,000 sales and I was doing 150 homes personally. So, I was like on five personally. So, I was like on five personally. So, I was like on five appointment, five listing. That's that's appointment, five listing. That's that's appointment, five listing. That's that's every 3 days you're selling a house. every 3 days you're selling a house. every 3 days you're selling a house. Well, we what happened was we started Well, we what happened was we started Well, we what happened was we started hitting the ceiling. And I was like, why hitting the ceiling. And I was like, why hitting the ceiling. And I was like, why on earth are we hitting the ceiling? We on earth are we hitting the ceiling? We on earth are we hitting the ceiling? We never had that problem before. We were never had that problem before. We were never had that problem before. We were always on massive growth mode. And I always on massive growth mode. And I always on massive growth mode. And I realized, you know what? I'm actually realized, you know what? I'm actually realized, you know what? I'm actually the lid right now. I started reading the lid right now. I started reading the lid right now. I started reading books and I'm like, I'm the lid in the books and I'm like, I'm the lid in the books and I'm like, I'm the lid in the business. I need to transition out of business. I need to transition out of business. I need to transition out of being the operator and into figuring out being the operator and into figuring out being the operator and into figuring out what a CEO should be doing. So there was what a CEO should be doing. So there was what a CEO should be doing. So there was there was about a and this is when you there was about a and this is when you there was about a and this is when you actually got me on to scaling up when actually got me on to scaling up when actually got me on to scaling up when you made that suggestion. But during you made that suggestion. But during you made that suggestion. But during that time that time that time I had two questions I wanted to answer.

I had two questions I wanted to answer. I had two questions I wanted to answer. Number one, what's a scorecard of a CEO? Number one, what's a scorecard of a CEO? Number one, what's a scorecard of a CEO? Like what are the main responsibilities? Like what are the main responsibilities? Like what are the main responsibilities? The tactical things that a CEO should do The tactical things that a CEO should do The tactical things that a CEO should do and the other one was why do companies and the other one was why do companies and the other one was why do companies hit ceilings and how do you break hit ceilings and how do you break hit ceilings and how do you break through? And so that was like a through? And so that was like a through? And so that was like a three-year time frame of getting into three-year time frame of getting into three-year time frame of getting into Jim Jim Collins, building the whole Jim Jim Collins, building the whole Jim Jim Collins, building the whole leadership team out. And then in regards leadership team out. And then in regards leadership team out. And then in regards to, you know, scaling up and EOS to, you know, scaling up and EOS to, you know, scaling up and EOS traction, implementing a lot of, you traction, implementing a lot of, you traction, implementing a lot of, you know, level 10 meetings, daily huddles know, level 10 meetings, daily huddles know, level 10 meetings, daily huddles and quarterly rocks and priorities and and quarterly rocks and priorities and and quarterly rocks and priorities and and all the rest of it. We implemented and all the rest of it. We implemented and all the rest of it. We implemented all of that and then boom, Carrie, like all of that and then boom, Carrie, like all of that and then boom, Carrie, like it was one step back to take two steps it was one step back to take two steps it was one step back to take two steps forward because our profit initially for forward because our profit initially for forward because our profit initially for the first year or two, it dropped. And the first year or two, it dropped. And the first year or two, it dropped. And then what happened when I built that then what happened when I built that then what happened when I built that strong leadership team, then we went strong leadership team, then we went strong leadership team, then we went from a thousand sales, we finally broke from a thousand sales, we finally broke from a thousand sales, we finally broke through. We got to we got to uh 1,400 through. We got to we got to uh 1,400 through. We got to we got to uh 1,400 sales and then we got to 1,700 sales. We sales and then we got to 1,700 sales. We sales and then we got to 1,700 sales. We did 1.4 billion u in sales in a year. did 1.4 billion u in sales in a year. did 1.4 billion u in sales in a year. And that's when right around that time And that's when right around that time And that's when right around that time is when there was another shift that is when there was another shift that is when there was another shift that came and so real estate investing became came and so real estate investing became came and so real estate investing became harder. Interest rates doubled. you harder. Interest rates doubled. you harder. Interest rates doubled. you ended up seeing that investment ended up seeing that investment ended up seeing that investment properties you had to go way way way up properties you had to go way way way up properties you had to go way way way up north not in our market anymore you north not in our market anymore you north not in our market anymore you couldn't find any good cash flowing couldn't find any good cash flowing couldn't find any good cash flowing properties and so that's when I really properties and so that's when I really properties and so that's when I really needed there was a big problem because needed there was a big problem because needed there was a big problem because we have we had thousands of investors we have we had thousands of investors we have we had thousands of investors that we worked with through the years that we worked with through the years that we worked with through the years and you could always come to us and we'd and you could always come to us and we'd and you could always come to us and we'd find you a great deal but it was very find you a great deal but it was very find you a great deal but it was very hard in my marketplace and rent control

hard in my marketplace and rent control hard in my marketplace and rent control is another thing so this is a postcoavid is another thing so this is a postcoavid is another thing so this is a postcoavid where everything went crazy in the where everything went crazy in the where everything went crazy in the housing market I mean it is nuts I mean housing market I mean it is nuts I mean housing market I mean it is nuts I mean houses that cost houses that cost houses that cost $700,000 8 years ago cost $1.2 million $700,000 8 years ago cost $1.2 million $700,000 8 years ago cost $1.2 million today or more. So that's right and you today or more. So that's right and you today or more. So that's right and you know we had invested along the way and know we had invested along the way and know we had invested along the way and so we were buying single family so we were buying single family so we were buying single family properties smaller multif family and properties smaller multif family and properties smaller multif family and apartment and uh office buildings and so apartment and uh office buildings and so apartment and uh office buildings and so it was a big problem that that we had. it was a big problem that that we had. it was a big problem that that we had. And so what I ended up doing is I And so what I ended up doing is I And so what I ended up doing is I started looking outside of our market started looking outside of our market started looking outside of our market and I started looking at places like and I started looking at places like and I started looking at places like Charleston and Tampa and you know these Charleston and Tampa and you know these Charleston and Tampa and you know these markets down south and I'm like oh my markets down south and I'm like oh my markets down south and I'm like oh my goodness this reminds you a lot of 2008 goodness this reminds you a lot of 2008 goodness this reminds you a lot of 2008 2009 and I thought you know what about 2009 and I thought you know what about 2009 and I thought you know what about the larger stuff? What if we help our the larger stuff? What if we help our the larger stuff? What if we help our investors invest down in these markets investors invest down in these markets investors invest down in these markets and buy these 100 unit plus apartment and buy these 100 unit plus apartment and buy these 100 unit plus apartment buildings? buildings? buildings? What if we could get them access to What if we could get them access to What if we could get them access to these we call them like the crown jewel these we call them like the crown jewel these we call them like the crown jewel of real estate and compete against the of real estate and compete against the of real estate and compete against the black rocks and the big boys, right? black rocks and the big boys, right? black rocks and the big boys, right? What if we did? What if we could do What if we did? What if we could do What if we did? What if we could do that? And then I went back that? And then I went back that? And then I went back and all the key learnings that I got and all the key learnings that I got and all the key learnings that I got from scaling the the real estate from scaling the the real estate from scaling the the real estate brokerage, we applied that and that's brokerage, we applied that and that's brokerage, we applied that and that's when I partnered up with John when I partnered up with John when I partnered up with John McCerowitz. He's a very strong McCerowitz. He's a very strong McCerowitz. He's a very strong integrator, strong operations. He scaled integrator, strong operations. He scaled integrator, strong operations. He scaled that company up to over like 400 people that company up to over like 400 people that company up to over like 400 people and they sold it. And so, um, the and they sold it. And so, um, the and they sold it. And so, um, the reality here is that we built the team reality here is that we built the team reality here is that we built the team and since then we've we've scaled that and since then we've we've scaled that and since then we've we've scaled that up. We have a full-time team of nine.

up. We have a full-time team of nine. up. We have a full-time team of nine. And so, we partner with investors now And so, we partner with investors now And so, we partner with investors now and we buy these 100 unit apartment and we buy these 100 unit apartment and we buy these 100 unit apartment buildings. So, I've had to buildings. So, I've had to buildings. So, I've had to change what my role is in the company. change what my role is in the company. change what my role is in the company. And I think that's one of the biggest And I think that's one of the biggest And I think that's one of the biggest things that a lot of people will not things that a lot of people will not things that a lot of people will not take that step from we'll say take that step from we'll say take that step from we'll say independent contractor to oh wait a sec independent contractor to oh wait a sec independent contractor to oh wait a sec I need to learn a new skill set CEO to I need to learn a new skill set CEO to I need to learn a new skill set CEO to oh I need to learn a new market new oh I need to learn a new market new oh I need to learn a new market new marketplace and and the the commercial marketplace and and the the commercial marketplace and and the the commercial real estate there's a there's a learning real estate there's a there's a learning real estate there's a there's a learning curve and that's where what I did was I curve and that's where what I did was I curve and that's where what I did was I fasttracked that learning by hiring the fasttracked that learning by hiring the fasttracked that learning by hiring the best people that have a track record on best people that have a track record on best people that have a track record on these assets. And so that helped me these assets. And so that helped me these assets. And so that helped me learn that a lot faster. And so that's learn that a lot faster. And so that's learn that a lot faster. And so that's where through the years I think where through the years I think where through the years I think transitioning and learning as you go and transitioning and learning as you go and transitioning and learning as you go and then taking massive action, it's been a then taking massive action, it's been a then taking massive action, it's been a a a real good uh learning and say a a real good uh learning and say a a real good uh learning and say journey over the last like five years. journey over the last like five years. journey over the last like five years. So when you went from selling to So when you went from selling to So when you went from selling to becoming CEO, what was the hardest part becoming CEO, what was the hardest part becoming CEO, what was the hardest part of that journey for you?

of that journey for you? of that journey for you? So when I first started transitioning, So when I first started transitioning, So when I first started transitioning, I'm like, I'll just keep this client and I'm like, I'll just keep this client and I'm like, I'll just keep this client and this client or, you know, I'll only take this client or, you know, I'll only take this client or, you know, I'll only take on certain listings. And so I started on certain listings. And so I started on certain listings. And so I started realizing that the split focus for me realizing that the split focus for me realizing that the split focus for me was not helpful. And so I was kind of was not helpful. And so I was kind of was not helpful. And so I was kind of see I was CEO, but then I was doing this see I was CEO, but then I was doing this see I was CEO, but then I was doing this over here and and I just letting go over here and and I just letting go over here and and I just letting go completely and trusting my people. And completely and trusting my people. And completely and trusting my people. And so one of the things that I did that so one of the things that I did that so one of the things that I did that really helped with that transition is I really helped with that transition is I really helped with that transition is I spent a lot of time making sure that our spent a lot of time making sure that our spent a lot of time making sure that our sales reps were trained and I didn't it sales reps were trained and I didn't it sales reps were trained and I didn't it wasn't like abdication where it's like wasn't like abdication where it's like wasn't like abdication where it's like you know pass it off and hope the best. you know pass it off and hope the best. you know pass it off and hope the best. This was straight up you need to This was straight up you need to This was straight up you need to roleplay with me do the listing roleplay with me do the listing roleplay with me do the listing presentation the buyer presentation show presentation the buyer presentation show presentation the buyer presentation show me that you can do this. And so I I me that you can do this. And so I I me that you can do this. And so I I spent a lot of time I wrote down all the spent a lot of time I wrote down all the spent a lot of time I wrote down all the scripts and built the presentations out. scripts and built the presentations out. scripts and built the presentations out. So that really helped make that So that really helped make that So that really helped make that transition. That was probably the transition. That was probably the transition. That was probably the hardest thing though, letting go hardest thing though, letting go hardest thing though, letting go completely and realizing that you know completely and realizing that you know completely and realizing that you know what, the selling side of it, I'm no what, the selling side of it, I'm no what, the selling side of it, I'm no longer taking that on because the longer taking that on because the longer taking that on because the company now needs me to be the best CEO company now needs me to be the best CEO company now needs me to be the best CEO and help scale the the company from that and help scale the the company from that and help scale the the company from that point of view. Maybe you don't miss point of view. Maybe you don't miss point of view. Maybe you don't miss anything now about your old role, but anything now about your old role, but anything now about your old role, but did you miss anything at the time? It's did you miss anything at the time? It's did you miss anything at the time? It's like, I wish I could get back there out like, I wish I could get back there out like, I wish I could get back there out there on the street. A lot of leaders there on the street. A lot of leaders there on the street. A lot of leaders struggle with this, and I think you're struggle with this, and I think you're struggle with this, and I think you're right. It's a split focus. So that's why right. It's a split focus. So that's why right. It's a split focus. So that's why I'm asking like personally there had to I'm asking like personally there had to I'm asking like personally there had to be a cost to that I would imagine at be a cost to that I would imagine at be a cost to that I would imagine at some point because you were number one some point because you were number one some point because you were number one in the country. Yeah. Like you were good in the country. Yeah. Like you were good in the country. Yeah. Like you were good at it. Yeah. Well, so the team to me it

at it. Yeah. Well, so the team to me it at it. Yeah. Well, so the team to me it was like whether I was personally doing was like whether I was personally doing was like whether I was personally doing the sales or the team members were doing the sales or the team members were doing the sales or the team members were doing it, it was still under fair team. So to it, it was still under fair team. So to it, it was still under fair team. So to me whether I did it or they did it, it me whether I did it or they did it, it me whether I did it or they did it, it was the same sign, same same everything. was the same sign, same same everything. was the same sign, same same everything. And so that was that was helpful to know And so that was that was helpful to know And so that was that was helpful to know that okay we're that okay we're that okay we're we're the company needs me to do this we're the company needs me to do this we're the company needs me to do this role over here but we're all still role over here but we're all still role over here but we're all still playing together. It's kind of like a playing together. It's kind of like a playing together. It's kind of like a partnership in you know your marriage partnership in you know your marriage partnership in you know your marriage it's you take that I take this and you it's you take that I take this and you it's you take that I take this and you know we we need to have the same result know we we need to have the same result know we we need to have the same result and sometimes those we'll say those um and sometimes those we'll say those um and sometimes those we'll say those um uh activities or those um uh activities or those um uh activities or those um uh uh responsibilities they change uh uh responsibilities they change uh uh responsibilities they change within but for me that that's where it within but for me that that's where it within but for me that that's where it was very helpful just to know that we was very helpful just to know that we was very helpful just to know that we set a goal and we were going going after set a goal and we were going going after set a goal and we were going going after it together. M yeah and there you talked it together. M yeah and there you talked it together. M yeah and there you talked about it before you just need to park about it before you just need to park about it before you just need to park your ego at the door and do what's in your ego at the door and do what's in your ego at the door and do what's in the best interest of the mission which I the best interest of the mission which I the best interest of the mission which I think can be challenging for a lot of think can be challenging for a lot of think can be challenging for a lot of that was that I'll tell you especially that was that I'll tell you especially that was that I'll tell you especially transitioning going from you know the transitioning going from you know the transitioning going from you know the real estate where you know you walk into real estate where you know you walk into real estate where you know you walk into a room or any sort of award ceremony and a room or any sort of award ceremony and a room or any sort of award ceremony and you're getting that top award across the you're getting that top award across the you're getting that top award across the country and then you're going into country and then you're going into country and then you're going into another industry and you're going to an another industry and you're going to an another industry and you're going to an event or conference event or conference event or conference and you're telling you know these guys and you're telling you know these guys and you're telling you know these guys have 10,000 units. They own you know have 10,000 units. They own you know have 10,000 units. They own you know these real estate investment firms. It's these real estate investment firms. It's these real estate investment firms. It's like I have 70 units and you're kind of like I have 70 units and you're kind of like I have 70 units and you're kind of like you're just like they're like oh like you're just like they're like oh like you're just like they're like oh you're so cute this little guy. I'm like

you're so cute this little guy. I'm like you're so cute this little guy. I'm like well team up in Canada they're like oh well team up in Canada they're like oh well team up in Canada they're like oh you're so cute real estate up in Canada. you're so cute real estate up in Canada. you're so cute real estate up in Canada. E so so there was definite pride that I E so so there was definite pride that I E so so there was definite pride that I had to swallow on that and get back to had to swallow on that and get back to had to swallow on that and get back to the basics. And you know for me I think the basics. And you know for me I think the basics. And you know for me I think that at the heart of growth I think is that at the heart of growth I think is that at the heart of growth I think is going back there as much as possible going back there as much as possible going back there as much as possible into that we'll we'll call that rookie into that we'll we'll call that rookie into that we'll we'll call that rookie mindset framework and it it it is I had mindset framework and it it it is I had mindset framework and it it it is I had to swallow pride going through that as to swallow pride going through that as to swallow pride going through that as well and it's an investment starting well and it's an investment starting well and it's an investment starting these this real estate investment firm I these this real estate investment firm I these this real estate investment firm I mean we're hiring super high-end really mean we're hiring super high-end really mean we're hiring super high-end really skilled individuals right and skilled individuals right and skilled individuals right and everybody's coming under so it's an everybody's coming under so it's an everybody's coming under so it's an upfront investment So, you know, you got upfront investment So, you know, you got upfront investment So, you know, you got to be able to put the money out front as to be able to put the money out front as to be able to put the money out front as well. And you're going to you're going well. And you're going to you're going well. And you're going to you're going to take a risk when you start any sort to take a risk when you start any sort to take a risk when you start any sort of new company. And uh I'll just say it of new company. And uh I'll just say it of new company. And uh I'll just say it was it's been a swallowing of pride, but was it's been a swallowing of pride, but was it's been a swallowing of pride, but massive amount of growth. And we're massive amount of growth. And we're massive amount of growth. And we're starting we're we're seeing a lot of starting we're we're seeing a lot of starting we're we're seeing a lot of fruit from it now. So, one of the things fruit from it now. So, one of the things fruit from it now. So, one of the things I've always admired about you in the I've always admired about you in the I've always admired about you in the time I've known you is few people focus time I've known you is few people focus time I've known you is few people focus more on goals and are active learners.

more on goals and are active learners. more on goals and are active learners. Like when I gave you that Vern Harish Like when I gave you that Vern Harish Like when I gave you that Vern Harish book or recommended it to you, I said to book or recommended it to you, I said to book or recommended it to you, I said to you before we hit record, I I think I've you before we hit record, I I think I've you before we hit record, I I think I've like skim read it and probably need to like skim read it and probably need to like skim read it and probably need to read it again. you've read it three read it again. you've read it three read it again. you've read it three times, have notes, uh, you know, times, have notes, uh, you know, times, have notes, uh, you know, underlined every other sentence, underlined every other sentence, underlined every other sentence, memorized it, implemented it, and you do memorized it, implemented it, and you do memorized it, implemented it, and you do that with, you know, Think and Grow that with, you know, Think and Grow that with, you know, Think and Grow Rich, Napoleon Hill, or whatever you Rich, Napoleon Hill, or whatever you Rich, Napoleon Hill, or whatever you happen to be reading at any time. Can happen to be reading at any time. Can happen to be reading at any time. Can you talk about your learning habits and you talk about your learning habits and you talk about your learning habits and how they've informed your leadership? how they've informed your leadership? how they've informed your leadership? So, this is probably one of the most So, this is probably one of the most So, this is probably one of the most impactful things that I've done when impactful things that I've done when impactful things that I've done when people ask like, how are you, you know, people ask like, how are you, you know, people ask like, how are you, you know, able to accomplish this? And I do able to accomplish this? And I do able to accomplish this? And I do believe success is a a number of small believe success is a a number of small believe success is a a number of small things. You know, Alex Hermoszi talks things. You know, Alex Hermoszi talks things. You know, Alex Hermoszi talks about it's like golden BB's versus a about it's like golden BB's versus a about it's like golden BB's versus a silver bullet. But from a learning mind, silver bullet. But from a learning mind, silver bullet. But from a learning mind, from a learning ability, I'd say the from a learning ability, I'd say the from a learning ability, I'd say the number one thing that I've been able to number one thing that I've been able to number one thing that I've been able to do is that when I read a book, so I call do is that when I read a book, so I call do is that when I read a book, so I call it stack reading. So I I buy the audible it stack reading. So I I buy the audible it stack reading. So I I buy the audible version and then I have the physical version and then I have the physical version and then I have the physical book and I have a pen. I'm more of a book and I have a pen. I'm more of a book and I have a pen. I'm more of a kinetic learner, so I need to write and kinetic learner, so I need to write and kinetic learner, so I need to write and so I speed it up to like 1.5 to 1.7 and so I speed it up to like 1.5 to 1.7 and so I speed it up to like 1.5 to 1.7 and it pulls me through the book because it pulls me through the book because it pulls me through the book because whatever you want to learn, somebody whatever you want to learn, somebody whatever you want to learn, somebody wrote down their best ideas. I mean, wrote down their best ideas. I mean, wrote down their best ideas. I mean, Carrie, you've wrote a number of Carrie, you've wrote a number of Carrie, you've wrote a number of phenomenal books that I've loved that phenomenal books that I've loved that phenomenal books that I've loved that I've taken a lot of great content at I've taken a lot of great content at I've taken a lot of great content at your best. That's one of my favorites.

your best. That's one of my favorites. your best. That's one of my favorites. Um, but the point there is that I'm I'm Um, but the point there is that I'm I'm Um, but the point there is that I'm I'm going and I'm underlining and it pulls going and I'm underlining and it pulls going and I'm underlining and it pulls me through the book so I can get through me through the book so I can get through me through the book so I can get through it faster. And then when I'm done, I go it faster. And then when I'm done, I go it faster. And then when I'm done, I go back through and I pull those main key back through and I pull those main key back through and I pull those main key concepts, ideas, I write on the back and concepts, ideas, I write on the back and concepts, ideas, I write on the back and I look to action on it as fast as I look to action on it as fast as I look to action on it as fast as possible. The time frame from learning possible. The time frame from learning possible. The time frame from learning it to actioning on it, the shorter I can it to actioning on it, the shorter I can it to actioning on it, the shorter I can shrink that, the faster I can run. And shrink that, the faster I can run. And shrink that, the faster I can run. And so for me, whenever I'm I'm learning so for me, whenever I'm I'm learning so for me, whenever I'm I'm learning anything, I'm more learning not for the anything, I'm more learning not for the anything, I'm more learning not for the sake of overall general learning. I'm sake of overall general learning. I'm sake of overall general learning. I'm more studying to learn a part of the more studying to learn a part of the more studying to learn a part of the business. And so for the listeners out business. And so for the listeners out business. And so for the listeners out there, I would say that whatever there, I would say that whatever there, I would say that whatever business you're in, there are people business you're in, there are people business you're in, there are people that have written down how to get better that have written down how to get better that have written down how to get better in certain areas that maybe you're in certain areas that maybe you're in certain areas that maybe you're weaker on or that you want to learn. The weaker on or that you want to learn. The weaker on or that you want to learn. The key is to not just read the book because key is to not just read the book because key is to not just read the book because I would say out of most of the people I would say out of most of the people I would say out of most of the people I've spoken with and when it comes down I've spoken with and when it comes down I've spoken with and when it comes down to reading, they'll read it and they'll to reading, they'll read it and they'll to reading, they'll read it and they'll read it once and they'll they'll they'll read it once and they'll they'll they'll read it once and they'll they'll they'll maybe skim. But the ability to take maybe skim. But the ability to take maybe skim. But the ability to take action and just one or two or three action and just one or two or three action and just one or two or three things from each book, the faster you things from each book, the faster you things from each book, the faster you can do that, the faster you can get can do that, the faster you can get can do that, the faster you can get ahead. And that's been probably my ahead. And that's been probably my ahead. And that's been probably my number one hack when it comes down to number one hack when it comes down to number one hack when it comes down to overall success is learning in a in a overall success is learning in a in a overall success is learning in a in a stack reading framework stack reading framework stack reading framework u and then actioning on it as fast as u and then actioning on it as fast as u and then actioning on it as fast as possible. That's been huge for me.

possible. That's been huge for me. possible. That's been huge for me. I think your insight about what can I I think your insight about what can I I think your insight about what can I implement right now and let's shrink the implement right now and let's shrink the implement right now and let's shrink the gap between learning and execution is gap between learning and execution is gap between learning and execution is probably the biggest takeaway for me. I probably the biggest takeaway for me. I probably the biggest takeaway for me. I mean it's super cool to like audiobook mean it's super cool to like audiobook mean it's super cool to like audiobook and read it and mark it up but a lot of and read it and mark it up but a lot of and read it and mark it up but a lot of people have you know Evernotes or notes people have you know Evernotes or notes people have you know Evernotes or notes full of insights but they haven't done full of insights but they haven't done full of insights but they haven't done anything with it and uh you know a anything with it and uh you know a anything with it and uh you know a friend of mine says action creates friend of mine says action creates friend of mine says action creates traction. I really believe that. Yeah. traction. I really believe that. Yeah. traction. I really believe that. Yeah. Yeah, a high sense of urgency and taking Yeah, a high sense of urgency and taking Yeah, a high sense of urgency and taking massive action are I would say the two massive action are I would say the two massive action are I would say the two like they're the most important things like they're the most important things like they're the most important things when it comes down to business. And when it comes down to business. And when it comes down to business. And that's where somebody that is not that's where somebody that is not that's where somebody that is not educated that just learns out of if you educated that just learns out of if you educated that just learns out of if you look at a flywheel, the ability to learn look at a flywheel, the ability to learn look at a flywheel, the ability to learn something, action on it, reflect from something, action on it, reflect from something, action on it, reflect from your your learning, and then do it your your learning, and then do it your your learning, and then do it again. that flywheel concept, the faster again. that flywheel concept, the faster again. that flywheel concept, the faster you can do that. Somebody that is maybe you can do that. Somebody that is maybe you can do that. Somebody that is maybe doesn't have a formal uh schooling doesn't have a formal uh schooling doesn't have a formal uh schooling education, they can go and blow by education, they can go and blow by education, they can go and blow by somebody very quickly that has an MBA somebody very quickly that has an MBA somebody very quickly that has an MBA because they're learning at a much because they're learning at a much because they're learning at a much faster pace than somebody that maybe has faster pace than somebody that maybe has faster pace than somebody that maybe has a background in overall learning, but a background in overall learning, but a background in overall learning, but they're not they're not continuing with they're not they're not continuing with they're not they're not continuing with their their learning curve. And and the their their learning curve. And and the their their learning curve. And and the best way to learn is to take action. And best way to learn is to take action. And best way to learn is to take action. And even if you go to the one step further, even if you go to the one step further, even if you go to the one step further, and I know you're doing this now, and I know you're doing this now, and I know you're doing this now, Carrie, is and I know for me, anytime Carrie, is and I know for me, anytime Carrie, is and I know for me, anytime you can teach something that you've that you can teach something that you've that you can teach something that you've that if you want to get some get really good if you want to get some get really good if you want to get some get really good at something, if you can teach it, you at something, if you can teach it, you at something, if you can teach it, you it anchors it in at you and you have to

it anchors it in at you and you have to it anchors it in at you and you have to understand it at a much deeper level. understand it at a much deeper level. understand it at a much deeper level. And I found that was another thing that And I found that was another thing that And I found that was another thing that I started doing that really helped my I started doing that really helped my I started doing that really helped my with my learning. with my learning. with my learning. Um, one thing because this pivot into Um, one thing because this pivot into Um, one thing because this pivot into real estate investing is three or four real estate investing is three or four real estate investing is three or four years old. It's not that old where you years old. It's not that old where you years old. It's not that old where you became the CEO, founder of Ferris became the CEO, founder of Ferris became the CEO, founder of Ferris Capital, etc. But you still have your Capital, etc. But you still have your Capital, etc. But you still have your whole real estate company running north whole real estate company running north whole real estate company running north of the border. So, you and Joanna moved of the border. So, you and Joanna moved of the border. So, you and Joanna moved to Naples. You're there in Florida most to Naples. You're there in Florida most to Naples. You're there in Florida most of the time now. You come back to Canada of the time now. You come back to Canada of the time now. You come back to Canada for a few weeks a year and different for a few weeks a year and different for a few weeks a year and different events. What was it like to learn to events. What was it like to learn to events. What was it like to learn to lead your real estate company remotely? lead your real estate company remotely? lead your real estate company remotely? What personal shifts did you have? What personal shifts did you have? What personal shifts did you have? Because you're not there every day. I Because you're not there every day. I Because you're not there every day. I mean, your team is still high mean, your team is still high mean, your team is still high performing, but that's a big pivot. A performing, but that's a big pivot. A performing, but that's a big pivot. A lot of multi-sight campus pastors, like lot of multi-sight campus pastors, like lot of multi-sight campus pastors, like senior pastors can't make. It's like, I senior pastors can't make. It's like, I senior pastors can't make. It's like, I wish I could be at all the sites. I want wish I could be at all the sites. I want wish I could be at all the sites. I want to see what's going on. Uh, you know, or to see what's going on. Uh, you know, or to see what's going on. Uh, you know, or business leaders, you know, if you get business leaders, you know, if you get business leaders, you know, if you get into franchising or multiple locations, into franchising or multiple locations, into franchising or multiple locations, it's really hard. But you got two it's really hard. But you got two it's really hard. But you got two different businesses going on, not just different businesses going on, not just different businesses going on, not just two locations. So what were the pivots two locations. So what were the pivots two locations. So what were the pivots you had to make as a leader to be able you had to make as a leader to be able you had to make as a leader to be able to do that effectively? Yeah. Well, the to do that effectively? Yeah. Well, the to do that effectively? Yeah. Well, the first we'll say concern that came up first we'll say concern that came up first we'll say concern that came up when the thought came of, well, maybe we when the thought came of, well, maybe we when the thought came of, well, maybe we can move down, you know, go down to can move down, you know, go down to can move down, you know, go down to Florida sooner than when the kids get Florida sooner than when the kids get Florida sooner than when the kids get out of high school, which is like 10 out of high school, which is like 10 out of high school, which is like 10 years down the road. So yeah. So this is years down the road. So yeah. So this is years down the road. So yeah. So this is where first there was this mindset of where first there was this mindset of where first there was this mindset of what will people think, what will people what will people think, what will people what will people think, what will people say? And so there was a fear there.

say? And so there was a fear there. say? And so there was a fear there. And I just reflected and said, you know And I just reflected and said, you know And I just reflected and said, you know what, like I know I know that I can do my job like I know I know that I can do my job just as well remotely than it in person. just as well remotely than it in person. just as well remotely than it in person. And the other thing that was really And the other thing that was really And the other thing that was really important at that point as well is that important at that point as well is that important at that point as well is that we had built a strong leadership team we had built a strong leadership team we had built a strong leadership team and strong managers. So we do have and strong managers. So we do have and strong managers. So we do have people boots on the ground as well. And people boots on the ground as well. And people boots on the ground as well. And so for me it was getting very clear what so for me it was getting very clear what so for me it was getting very clear what kind of value do I add to the business kind of value do I add to the business kind of value do I add to the business and where are the key points in and that and where are the key points in and that and where are the key points in and that I need to be inserted in. And so that's I need to be inserted in. And so that's I need to be inserted in. And so that's where over a period of two years as I where over a period of two years as I where over a period of two years as I was starting to build Ferris Capital was starting to build Ferris Capital was starting to build Ferris Capital when anytime you start a new business when anytime you start a new business when anytime you start a new business you got to be like full on. And so for you got to be like full on. And so for you got to be like full on. And so for those two year that two-year time frame those two year that two-year time frame those two year that two-year time frame when I got Ferris Capital off the ground when I got Ferris Capital off the ground when I got Ferris Capital off the ground when I was building that and I was boots when I was building that and I was boots when I was building that and I was boots on the ground going the president I'd on the ground going the president I'd on the ground going the president I'd have my one once a week meeting with my have my one once a week meeting with my have my one once a week meeting with my president and then we had our strong president and then we had our strong president and then we had our strong leadership team that were meeting leadership team that were meeting leadership team that were meeting outside. I wasn't part of that actually outside. I wasn't part of that actually outside. I wasn't part of that actually for a period of two years. And so now for a period of two years. And so now for a period of two years. And so now that we've built that Ferris Capital, that we've built that Ferris Capital, that we've built that Ferris Capital, I'm I'm able to spend a little bit more I'm I'm able to spend a little bit more I'm I'm able to spend a little bit more time in that business leading the sales time in that business leading the sales time in that business leading the sales team and whatnot while doing, you know, team and whatnot while doing, you know, team and whatnot while doing, you know, the Ferris capital side because we have the Ferris capital side because we have the Ferris capital side because we have strong present on that side. So for me, strong present on that side. So for me, strong present on that side. So for me, the number one thing when it came down the number one thing when it came down the number one thing when it came down to doing remotely is making sure that we to doing remotely is making sure that we to doing remotely is making sure that we have strong leadership in place and that have strong leadership in place and that have strong leadership in place and that they're they're in the right rhythms in they're they're in the right rhythms in they're they're in the right rhythms in their meeting rhythms and how they're their meeting rhythms and how they're their meeting rhythms and how they're meeting and setting their priorities.

meeting and setting their priorities. meeting and setting their priorities. And so that skill set really needed to And so that skill set really needed to And so that skill set really needed to be built before making that transition. be built before making that transition. be built before making that transition. And the other part of it was overcoming And the other part of it was overcoming And the other part of it was overcoming these these limiting beliefs of what these these limiting beliefs of what these these limiting beliefs of what will people think, what will people say. will people think, what will people say. will people think, what will people say. I think it's getting very clear what I think it's getting very clear what I think it's getting very clear what kind of value you do add to the company kind of value you do add to the company kind of value you do add to the company and just continue to make sure that and just continue to make sure that and just continue to make sure that you're doing that and you know, for you're doing that and you know, for you're doing that and you know, for example, you're reaching out to all of example, you're reaching out to all of example, you're reaching out to all of the key players and you're you're the key players and you're you're the key players and you're you're keeping that relationship strong rather keeping that relationship strong rather keeping that relationship strong rather than just being, you know, completely than just being, you know, completely than just being, you know, completely unplugging and you know, we'll say unplugging and you know, we'll say unplugging and you know, we'll say ignoring them. One thing and I mean ignoring them. One thing and I mean ignoring them. One thing and I mean you're a strong Christian. you've been you're a strong Christian. you've been you're a strong Christian. you've been part of our church for over 10 years part of our church for over 10 years part of our church for over 10 years now, etc. So, I know you well. Um, but now, etc. So, I know you well. Um, but now, etc. So, I know you well. Um, but visualization, I remember when you were visualization, I remember when you were visualization, I remember when you were poised to become top in the country, you poised to become top in the country, you poised to become top in the country, you talked about visualizing the award on talked about visualizing the award on talked about visualizing the award on the wall. Do you remember that the wall. Do you remember that the wall. Do you remember that conversation? Yeah. Yeah. Uh, can you conversation? Yeah. Yeah. Uh, can you conversation? Yeah. Yeah. Uh, can you can you talk about that power? Because I can you talk about that power? Because I can you talk about that power? Because I think a lot of leaders are afraid to think a lot of leaders are afraid to think a lot of leaders are afraid to step into the future because they can't step into the future because they can't step into the future because they can't see the future. And uh I've tried to do see the future. And uh I've tried to do see the future. And uh I've tried to do a better job at, you know, praying, a better job at, you know, praying, a better job at, you know, praying, visualizing, and I know you're not visualizing, and I know you're not visualizing, and I know you're not getting into like new age woo woo stuff, getting into like new age woo woo stuff, getting into like new age woo woo stuff, but talk about the the power that that's but talk about the the power that that's but talk about the the power that that's had. Yes. So, I call it visioning. And had. Yes. So, I call it visioning. And had. Yes. So, I call it visioning. And so, visioning to me is is I mean, it's so, visioning to me is is I mean, it's so, visioning to me is is I mean, it's right there in the Bible. The people right there in the Bible. The people right there in the Bible. The people lack vision, they perish. Yeah. And lack vision, they perish. Yeah. And lack vision, they perish. Yeah. And so, for me, it's getting very clear what so, for me, it's getting very clear what so, for me, it's getting very clear what the result is that you're looking for.

the result is that you're looking for. the result is that you're looking for. And so when you can get very clear what And so when you can get very clear what And so when you can get very clear what it is you're looking for, your mind goes it is you're looking for, your mind goes it is you're looking for, your mind goes about finding it. And we've all about finding it. And we've all about finding it. And we've all experienced this when we go and buy a experienced this when we go and buy a experienced this when we go and buy a new vehicle, right? When you buy a new vehicle, right? When you buy a new vehicle, right? When you buy a vehicle, it's like you start seeing it vehicle, it's like you start seeing it vehicle, it's like you start seeing it everywhere because it's top of mind. And everywhere because it's top of mind. And everywhere because it's top of mind. And so one of the biggest things I I see so one of the biggest things I I see so one of the biggest things I I see when I'm talking with maybe a new when I'm talking with maybe a new when I'm talking with maybe a new entrepreneur, I'm like, "Okay, what are entrepreneur, I'm like, "Okay, what are entrepreneur, I'm like, "Okay, what are your goals? What does that look like?" your goals? What does that look like?" your goals? What does that look like?" And the more I ask questions, the more And the more I ask questions, the more And the more I ask questions, the more they start to paint in more colors. And they start to paint in more colors. And they start to paint in more colors. And so this is something that when I started so this is something that when I started so this is something that when I started in real estate, I remember I was working in real estate, I remember I was working in real estate, I remember I was working late and I had a real estate agent knock late and I had a real estate agent knock late and I had a real estate agent knock on the door and come in and she opened on the door and come in and she opened on the door and come in and she opened the door and she's like, "Mark, you the door and she's like, "Mark, you the door and she's like, "Mark, you pretending to work in there?" I'm like, pretending to work in there?" I'm like, pretending to work in there?" I'm like, "No, I no, I just, you know, make my "No, I no, I just, you know, make my "No, I no, I just, you know, make my calls and and then they ended up calls and and then they ended up calls and and then they ended up leaving." And then I was just me there leaving." And then I was just me there leaving." And then I was just me there in the office and I went to the front in the office and I went to the front in the office and I went to the front reception and as I was leaving, this was reception and as I was leaving, this was reception and as I was leaving, this was well after 9:00, I saw these awards up well after 9:00, I saw these awards up well after 9:00, I saw these awards up on the wall and I thought to myself, on the wall and I thought to myself, on the wall and I thought to myself, huh, the awards were the top 1% in in huh, the awards were the top 1% in in huh, the awards were the top 1% in in the entire company. And this is when we the entire company. And this is when we the entire company. And this is when we were like maxed out credit cards. I'm were like maxed out credit cards. I'm were like maxed out credit cards. I'm like, what if what if I I could be up like, what if what if I I could be up like, what if what if I I could be up there? Like that's amazing. That would there? Like that's amazing. That would there? Like that's amazing. That would be great. And so when I started really be great. And so when I started really be great. And so when I started really diving in I that that question was diving in I that that question was diving in I that that question was really powerful. What what if what if I really powerful. What what if what if I really powerful. What what if what if I could do that? What like and then it was could do that? What like and then it was could do that? What like and then it was like why not? Why why couldn't I do like why not? Why why couldn't I do like why not? Why why couldn't I do that? And then the more that I started that? And then the more that I started that? And then the more that I started getting clarity on that I started getting clarity on that I started getting clarity on that I started getting okay well what would that look getting okay well what would that look getting okay well what would that look like if I did win it? And then you know

like if I did win it? And then you know like if I did win it? And then you know going up on stage getting the award and going up on stage getting the award and going up on stage getting the award and feeling all those feelings. And it was feeling all those feelings. And it was feeling all those feelings. And it was just like for me it was that was just like for me it was that was just like for me it was that was encouraging that thought of that and encouraging that thought of that and encouraging that thought of that and that that visioning I I created it so that that visioning I I created it so that that visioning I I created it so clear in my mind that Carrie like I knew clear in my mind that Carrie like I knew clear in my mind that Carrie like I knew what I was eating for dinner that that what I was eating for dinner that that what I was eating for dinner that that night and you know going up on stage and night and you know going up on stage and night and you know going up on stage and feeling all those emotions and so that feeling all those emotions and so that feeling all those emotions and so that to me is creating that kind of clarity to me is creating that kind of clarity to me is creating that kind of clarity it gives your daily actions a lot more it gives your daily actions a lot more it gives your daily actions a lot more intention because you know what you're intention because you know what you're intention because you know what you're you're trying to do and I think that the you're trying to do and I think that the you're trying to do and I think that the more you can create clarity in regards more you can create clarity in regards more you can create clarity in regards to whatever result is that you're going to whatever result is that you're going to whatever result is that you're going before you your mind's going to see more before you your mind's going to see more before you your mind's going to see more opportunities and that's just a fact opportunities and that's just a fact opportunities and that's just a fact that you that is has been proven over that you that is has been proven over that you that is has been proven over and over is like if you when you have a and over is like if you when you have a and over is like if you when you have a goal and you start working towards it goal and you start working towards it goal and you start working towards it more things start to show up and they more things start to show up and they more things start to show up and they were there before you just didn't see it were there before you just didn't see it were there before you just didn't see it and I think that's the biggest thing you and I think that's the biggest thing you and I think that's the biggest thing you know I've had that actually when you know I've had that actually when you know I've had that actually when you mention it I thought I didn't do that mention it I thought I didn't do that mention it I thought I didn't do that particularly well I've had that with particularly well I've had that with particularly well I've had that with certain guests where you're intimidated certain guests where you're intimidated certain guests where you're intimidated to even send the email because you don't to even send the email because you don't to even send the email because you don't know them and you know they don't do know them and you know they don't do know them and you know they don't do interviews, etc. And then you kind of interviews, etc. And then you kind of interviews, etc. And then you kind of work yourself into it. I pray through it work yourself into it. I pray through it work yourself into it. I pray through it as I know you do. And then when as I know you do. And then when as I know you do. And then when eventually we're either in the room or eventually we're either in the room or eventually we're either in the room or online like online like online like this, there's a familiarity and an this, there's a familiarity and an this, there's a familiarity and an inevitability to it where you're like, inevitability to it where you're like, inevitability to it where you're like, "Yeah, this is exactly what I should be "Yeah, this is exactly what I should be "Yeah, this is exactly what I should be doing. I should be interviewing this doing. I should be interviewing this doing. I should be interviewing this person." And it's a really interesting person." And it's a really interesting person." And it's a really interesting episode uh or a really interesting episode uh or a really interesting episode uh or a really interesting exercise to go through. Okay. Yeah. Bit exercise to go through. Okay. Yeah. Bit exercise to go through. Okay. Yeah. Bit of a rapid fire round. Um, you and your

of a rapid fire round. Um, you and your of a rapid fire round. Um, you and your wife Joanna have worked together for wife Joanna have worked together for wife Joanna have worked together for years and I'm sure you've had high years and I'm sure you've had high years and I'm sure you've had high points and low points. What have been points and low points. What have been points and low points. What have been some of the keys to making that some of the keys to making that some of the keys to making that relationship work? So, Carrie, when we relationship work? So, Carrie, when we relationship work? So, Carrie, when we first got married, whenever I got first got married, whenever I got first got married, whenever I got something wrong in the marriage, you something wrong in the marriage, you something wrong in the marriage, you know, I'd say something or I'd do know, I'd say something or I'd do know, I'd say something or I'd do something and I I knew I was offside. It something and I I knew I was offside. It something and I I knew I was offside. It would take me maybe it take me a month would take me maybe it take me a month would take me maybe it take me a month or three weeks before I would like own or three weeks before I would like own or three weeks before I would like own up to it. up to it. up to it. Wow. And and then as years went by, you Wow. And and then as years went by, you Wow. And and then as years went by, you know, I'm a eventually I learned Carrie. know, I'm a eventually I learned Carrie. know, I'm a eventually I learned Carrie. I'm not the super quick learner here. I'm not the super quick learner here. I'm not the super quick learner here. And and then it got to be weeks and then And and then it got to be weeks and then And and then it got to be weeks and then week and then a few days and and then, week and then a few days and and then, week and then a few days and and then, you know, a few hours and now as I've you know, a few hours and now as I've you know, a few hours and now as I've matured more, that ability to be able to matured more, that ability to be able to matured more, that ability to be able to ask for forgiveness sooner has been like ask for forgiveness sooner has been like ask for forgiveness sooner has been like huge for us. Yeah. And so that that's huge for us. Yeah. And so that that's huge for us. Yeah. And so that that's that's a big one because you know if you that's a big one because you know if you that's a big one because you know if you keep on holding to angst or or we'll say keep on holding to angst or or we'll say keep on holding to angst or or we'll say you know you're you're pissed off or you know you're you're pissed off or you know you're you're pissed off or something and you don't ask for something and you don't ask for something and you don't ask for forgiveness then that walls start to forgiveness then that walls start to forgiveness then that walls start to build and so we we pull those walls down build and so we we pull those walls down build and so we we pull those walls down very quickly. The other thing for Joanna very quickly. The other thing for Joanna very quickly. The other thing for Joanna and I is that there's alignment. I mean and I is that there's alignment. I mean and I is that there's alignment. I mean we both believe in Jesus Christ. So like we both believe in Jesus Christ. So like we both believe in Jesus Christ. So like the the Bible for us is like a really the the Bible for us is like a really the the Bible for us is like a really great filter of we we'll call it the the great filter of we we'll call it the the great filter of we we'll call it the the foundation of the marriage. And so when foundation of the marriage. And so when foundation of the marriage. And so when we both believe in that, our values are we both believe in that, our values are we both believe in that, our values are very much very much very much aligned. And so that's the other one.

aligned. And so that's the other one. aligned. And so that's the other one. And then I'd say as a third that we've And then I'd say as a third that we've And then I'd say as a third that we've always made it very clear to the kids always made it very clear to the kids always made it very clear to the kids that Joanna and I like, okay, first that Joanna and I like, okay, first that Joanna and I like, okay, first Jesus, he's he's number one. And and Jesus, he's he's number one. And and Jesus, he's he's number one. And and then it's mom and dad. We're we're next. then it's mom and dad. We're we're next. then it's mom and dad. We're we're next. Like mom is she's I'm gonna pick. So if Like mom is she's I'm gonna pick. So if Like mom is she's I'm gonna pick. So if you're in a debate with your mom, I'm on you're in a debate with your mom, I'm on you're in a debate with your mom, I'm on mom's side. And and so this is a a big mom's side. And and so this is a a big mom's side. And and so this is a a big one that we spend a lot of time making one that we spend a lot of time making one that we spend a lot of time making sure that that we're connecting through sure that that we're connecting through sure that that we're connecting through the week. I mean, you know, running the week. I mean, you know, running the week. I mean, you know, running these companies, it it's very taxing in these companies, it it's very taxing in these companies, it it's very taxing in regards to time. And so outside of that, regards to time. And so outside of that, regards to time. And so outside of that, like we're getting our time in like we're getting our time in like we're getting our time in one-on-one along the way. That's always one-on-one along the way. That's always one-on-one along the way. That's always been big because Joanna's been big because Joanna's been big because Joanna's her her u uh love language is quality her her u uh love language is quality her her u uh love language is quality time. And so Tony's too, right? Yeah. So time. And so Tony's too, right? Yeah. So time. And so Tony's too, right? Yeah. So I got to make sure to fill that cup. And I got to make sure to fill that cup. And I got to make sure to fill that cup. And if it's getting a little empty, Joanna's if it's getting a little empty, Joanna's if it's getting a little empty, Joanna's very uh again, she's bullish, right? very uh again, she's bullish, right? very uh again, she's bullish, right? She's very bold and she'll tell me She's very bold and she'll tell me She's very bold and she'll tell me straight. She's like, "Mark, I got to we straight. She's like, "Mark, I got to we straight. She's like, "Mark, I got to we got to spend some more time here." I'm got to spend some more time here." I'm got to spend some more time here." I'm like, "Okay, I got you."

like, "Okay, I got you." like, "Okay, I got you." You guys are good at that, too. You've You guys are good at that, too. You've You guys are good at that, too. You've always done vacations together with and always done vacations together with and always done vacations together with and without the kids. And when our kids were without the kids. And when our kids were without the kids. And when our kids were younger, you're in the thick of it. Are younger, you're in the thick of it. Are younger, you're in the thick of it. Are they all teenagers now? The boys? Yeah. they all teenagers now? The boys? Yeah. they all teenagers now? The boys? Yeah. So, yeah, 17, 15, and almost 13 now. So, yeah, 17, 15, and almost 13 now. So, yeah, 17, 15, and almost 13 now. Yeah, I thought so. I thought I thought Yeah, I thought so. I thought I thought Yeah, I thought so. I thought I thought they were all teens. So, you're in the they were all teens. So, you're in the they were all teens. So, you're in the middle of it right now and you know, middle of it right now and you know, middle of it right now and you know, I've seen you. You'll take Joanna for I've seen you. You'll take Joanna for I've seen you. You'll take Joanna for the weekend, for a week, make sure the the weekend, for a week, make sure the the weekend, for a week, make sure the boys are taken care of, etc. That boys are taken care of, etc. That boys are taken care of, etc. That probably is another key to maintaining a probably is another key to maintaining a probably is another key to maintaining a healthy relationship and making sure healthy relationship and making sure healthy relationship and making sure that you've got a strong marriage. Well, that you've got a strong marriage. Well, that you've got a strong marriage. Well, and the other thing that we we've done and the other thing that we we've done and the other thing that we we've done as well is we'll actually take a part of as well is we'll actually take a part of as well is we'll actually take a part of the day on Thursday. Like Thursday just the day on Thursday. Like Thursday just the day on Thursday. Like Thursday just seems to be that time. And we'll seems to be that time. And we'll seems to be that time. And we'll actually go we'll go for lunch, maybe actually go we'll go for lunch, maybe actually go we'll go for lunch, maybe we'll go for a walk in the beach. And we'll go for a walk in the beach. And we'll go for a walk in the beach. And that's been like really good. That's the that's been like really good. That's the that's been like really good. That's the rule. So there's exceptions to the rule rule. So there's exceptions to the rule rule. So there's exceptions to the rule in regards to if there's something I'm in regards to if there's something I'm in regards to if there's something I'm on travel or whatnot, but overall we on travel or whatnot, but overall we on travel or whatnot, but overall we make sure that we get that Thursday in. make sure that we get that Thursday in. make sure that we get that Thursday in. And so that Carrie, that's been so And so that Carrie, that's been so And so that Carrie, that's been so helpful in regards to just reconnecting.

helpful in regards to just reconnecting. helpful in regards to just reconnecting. But, you know, once we get through the But, you know, once we get through the But, you know, once we get through the reconnecting side of it, sometimes reconnecting side of it, sometimes reconnecting side of it, sometimes there's like business conversations that there's like business conversations that there's like business conversations that I I I'll throw out ideas and we kind of I I I'll throw out ideas and we kind of I I I'll throw out ideas and we kind of bat it out back and forth and and bat it out back and forth and and bat it out back and forth and and there's been more kind of, you know, there's been more kind of, you know, there's been more kind of, you know, moments for me where I'm like, "Okay, moments for me where I'm like, "Okay, moments for me where I'm like, "Okay, yeah, that's really good." I we we kind yeah, that's really good." I we we kind yeah, that's really good." I we we kind of work out an idea or concept and so of work out an idea or concept and so of work out an idea or concept and so that's been actually really good on the that's been actually really good on the that's been actually really good on the business front as well along, you know, business front as well along, you know, business front as well along, you know, amongst all the other benefits. So note amongst all the other benefits. So note amongst all the other benefits. So note to leaders who are really busy, Mark to leaders who are really busy, Mark to leaders who are really busy, Mark runs two massive organizations that are runs two massive organizations that are runs two massive organizations that are leaders in their field and he spends leaders in their field and he spends leaders in their field and he spends Thursday afternoon with his wife. That's Thursday afternoon with his wife. That's Thursday afternoon with his wife. That's Friday for Tony and I. If if Mark can do Friday for Tony and I. If if Mark can do Friday for Tony and I. If if Mark can do it, we can do it, right? Just a just a it, we can do it, right? Just a just a it, we can do it, right? Just a just a note. Okay. One of the the and we don't note. Okay. One of the the and we don't note. Okay. One of the the and we don't have a lot of time uh to really explore have a lot of time uh to really explore have a lot of time uh to really explore it and maybe we can do a round two on it and maybe we can do a round two on it and maybe we can do a round two on this sometime, but I've always I still this sometime, but I've always I still this sometime, but I've always I still Do you want to talk about that first Do you want to talk about that first Do you want to talk about that first time we met? You came to Kexus. you were time we met? You came to Kexus. you were time we met? You came to Kexus. you were looking for a different church and we looking for a different church and we looking for a different church and we did something that really kind of upset did something that really kind of upset did something that really kind of upset you and Joanna that Sunday and you you and Joanna that Sunday and you you and Joanna that Sunday and you talked to me about it. Do you remember talked to me about it. Do you remember talked to me about it. Do you remember what we're talking about? Yeah. So, what we're talking about? Yeah. So, what we're talking about? Yeah. So, yeah. And just before I do, I was just yeah. And just before I do, I was just yeah. And just before I do, I was just going to go back quickly in regards to going to go back quickly in regards to going to go back quickly in regards to this. There's this rule of Parkinson's this. There's this rule of Parkinson's this. There's this rule of Parkinson's law. And so, going back to this idea law. And so, going back to this idea law. And so, going back to this idea that about time that if you give that about time that if you give that about time that if you give yourself an hour to do something, you yourself an hour to do something, you yourself an hour to do something, you can get it done in an hour. Just like if can get it done in an hour. Just like if can get it done in an hour. Just like if you go on vacation, you can become super you go on vacation, you can become super you go on vacation, you can become super human and you can get way more done if human and you can get way more done if human and you can get way more done if if you have certain windows of time that if you have certain windows of time that if you have certain windows of time that you have to get your work done.

you have to get your work done. you have to get your work done. Parkinson's law says that you you'll be Parkinson's law says that you you'll be Parkinson's law says that you you'll be able to squish in and fit the amount of able to squish in and fit the amount of able to squish in and fit the amount of work in to any time that you give it. work in to any time that you give it. work in to any time that you give it. And so if you give yourself a day to do And so if you give yourself a day to do And so if you give yourself a day to do the work, you'll get it done in a day. the work, you'll get it done in a day. the work, you'll get it done in a day. And if you have a half a day, then And if you have a half a day, then And if you have a half a day, then that's how you actually create and build that's how you actually create and build that's how you actually create and build time. So that's just more of a side time. So that's just more of a side time. So that's just more of a side note. Yeah. It's like work expands to note. Yeah. It's like work expands to note. Yeah. It's like work expands to the time available to fill it. So make the time available to fill it. So make the time available to fill it. So make less time available. Okay. So, I still less time available. Okay. So, I still less time available. Okay. So, I still remember I know where I was standing remember I know where I was standing remember I know where I was standing when I met you because I knew who you when I met you because I knew who you when I met you because I knew who you were, but I didn't know you personally. were, but I didn't know you personally. were, but I didn't know you personally. And I thought, "Oh, the Pharisees are at And I thought, "Oh, the Pharisees are at And I thought, "Oh, the Pharisees are at church this Sunday." And every pastor church this Sunday." And every pastor church this Sunday." And every pastor has probably had that experience and you has probably had that experience and you has probably had that experience and you were like, "Huh, I'm not sure about your were like, "Huh, I'm not sure about your were like, "Huh, I'm not sure about your church, Carrie. Can you tell me?" You church, Carrie. Can you tell me?" You church, Carrie. Can you tell me?" You very respectful, but do you remember very respectful, but do you remember very respectful, but do you remember that conversation? Yes, I do. And so, that conversation? Yes, I do. And so, that conversation? Yes, I do. And so, you were It was great because you were you were It was great because you were you were It was great because you were open to the conversation. I think there open to the conversation. I think there open to the conversation. I think there was something that that I We did a We was something that that I We did a We was something that that I We did a We were still doing covers at the time. I were still doing covers at the time. I were still doing covers at the time. I think we played magic. The band played think we played magic. The band played think we played magic. The band played Magic by Cold Play. This dates it to Magic by Cold Play. This dates it to Magic by Cold Play. This dates it to like 2014. Do you remember that? There like 2014. Do you remember that? There like 2014. Do you remember that? There was something that happened. We're kind was something that happened. We're kind was something that happened. We're kind of questioning it. And so we came and of questioning it. And so we came and of questioning it. And so we came and talked to you about it. And you know, talked to you about it. And you know, talked to you about it. And you know, being in a leadership position for me, being in a leadership position for me, being in a leadership position for me, it's like I always want to be able to it's like I always want to be able to it's like I always want to be able to have a conversation if we if we, you have a conversation if we if we, you have a conversation if we if we, you know, overstepped or, you know, for or know, overstepped or, you know, for or know, overstepped or, you know, for or something came across a certain way just something came across a certain way just something came across a certain way just to get context. And so you were to get context. And so you were to get context. And so you were available after church and we came up available after church and we came up available after church and we came up and spoke with you and you said, "You and spoke with you and you said, "You and spoke with you and you said, "You know what? Like it was cool for me to know what? Like it was cool for me to know what? Like it was cool for me to hear like listen we don't always get it hear like listen we don't always get it hear like listen we don't always get it right and it was you didn't say it right and it was you didn't say it right and it was you didn't say it wasn't like this oh we did everything wasn't like this oh we did everything wasn't like this oh we did everything wrong. It was very much like listen we wrong. It was very much like listen we wrong. It was very much like listen we don't we we don't we we don't get it

don't we we don't we we don't get it don't we we don't we we don't get it right all the time. And so like there right all the time. And so like there right all the time. And so like there was a humility there, but then you were was a humility there, but then you were was a humility there, but then you were really listening to us. And I think that really listening to us. And I think that really listening to us. And I think that conversation of like truly listening and conversation of like truly listening and conversation of like truly listening and you know giving some context as to you you know giving some context as to you you know giving some context as to you know what, you know, what was said or know what, you know, what was said or know what, you know, what was said or the the the cover that was playing at the the the cover that was playing at the the the cover that was playing at that time. But that started a good that time. But that started a good that time. But that started a good relationship as oh you know what this is relationship as oh you know what this is relationship as oh you know what this is somebody there that you know I actually somebody there that you know I actually somebody there that you know I actually respect and you know we can have a respect and you know we can have a respect and you know we can have a conversation and you know that that was conversation and you know that that was conversation and you know that that was kind of the beginning of the kind of the beginning of the kind of the beginning of the relationship. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I relationship. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I relationship. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I remember that. And you were you were remember that. And you were you were remember that. And you were you were very kind, too. You're just like, "So, very kind, too. You're just like, "So, very kind, too. You're just like, "So, why are you doing a song called Magic if why are you doing a song called Magic if why are you doing a song called Magic if it's a Christian church?" And I'm like, it's a Christian church?" And I'm like, it's a Christian church?" And I'm like, "Actually, that's a good point." Uh, "Actually, that's a good point." Uh, "Actually, that's a good point." Uh, so yeah, it was cool. It was cool to to so yeah, it was cool. It was cool to to so yeah, it was cool. It was cool to to hear. I mean, you there was at that hear. I mean, you there was at that hear. I mean, you there was at that point, I think you had well over a point, I think you had well over a point, I think you had well over a thousand going, right? And so, you had thousand going, right? And so, you had thousand going, right? And so, you had you had the time of having that you had the time of having that you had the time of having that one-on-one, which was which was cool. one-on-one, which was which was cool. one-on-one, which was which was cool. And I always tried to be at the door. And I always tried to be at the door. And I always tried to be at the door. Even, you know, as long as I was lead Even, you know, as long as I was lead Even, you know, as long as I was lead pastor, teaching pastor, uh, I always pastor, teaching pastor, uh, I always pastor, teaching pastor, uh, I always wanted to be at the door. I always wanted to be at the door. I always wanted to be at the door. I always wanted to meet as many people as I could wanted to meet as many people as I could wanted to meet as many people as I could on a Sunday. I think that's really on a Sunday. I think that's really on a Sunday. I think that's really important. Um, what do church leaders important. Um, what do church leaders important. Um, what do church leaders not understand about business leaders?

not understand about business leaders? not understand about business leaders? Yeah. So, first, I I think that growing Yeah. So, first, I I think that growing Yeah. So, first, I I think that growing a church, the same principles apply to a church, the same principles apply to a church, the same principles apply to growing any business. And so one of the growing any business. And so one of the growing any business. And so one of the things that I've seen because I've been things that I've seen because I've been things that I've seen because I've been to a number of different churches in the to a number of different churches in the to a number of different churches in the past is that as an entrepreneur you have past is that as an entrepreneur you have past is that as an entrepreneur you have to I I believe there's an element of to I I believe there's an element of to I I believe there's an element of paranoia that that sets that is paranoia that that sets that is paranoia that that sets that is important but there's there's optimism important but there's there's optimism important but there's there's optimism is I would say even more so and so with is I would say even more so and so with is I would say even more so and so with the message for entrepreneurs that are the message for entrepreneurs that are the message for entrepreneurs that are coming in when if it's based in coming in when if it's based in coming in when if it's based in negativity the entrepreneur will pick up negativity the entrepreneur will pick up negativity the entrepreneur will pick up on that and versus like so I'm a being a on that and versus like so I'm a being a on that and versus like so I'm a being a believer in Jesus Christ I believe that believer in Jesus Christ I believe that believer in Jesus Christ I believe that he died on the cross he took our sins he died on the cross he took our sins he died on the cross he took our sins away and because he came and took my my away and because he came and took my my away and because he came and took my my sins away I am now perfect in in God's sins away I am now perfect in in God's sins away I am now perfect in in God's eyes because of Jesus Christ so I sit on eyes because of Jesus Christ so I sit on eyes because of Jesus Christ so I sit on that side of it and so that's where that side of it and so that's where that side of it and so that's where optimism if the message is like listen optimism if the message is like listen optimism if the message is like listen we we're um we're victori victorious now coming um we're victori victorious now coming from that message versus like from that message versus like from that message versus like negativity, you're a sinner, you're negativity, you're a sinner, you're negativity, you're a sinner, you're horrible. Entrepreneurs, they'll pick up horrible. Entrepreneurs, they'll pick up horrible. Entrepreneurs, they'll pick up on that and they they know that. I'm on that and they they know that. I'm on that and they they know that. I'm just saying in my own experience anyways just saying in my own experience anyways just saying in my own experience anyways from an entrepreneurial side of it, from an entrepreneurial side of it, from an entrepreneurial side of it, that's not something that I want to that's not something that I want to that's not something that I want to expose myself to every day. If you miss expose myself to every day. If you miss expose myself to every day. If you miss the back half of that message that the back half of that message that the back half of that message that listen, we're we're victorious now.

listen, we're we're victorious now. listen, we're we're victorious now. Because as a CEO and entrepreneur, you Because as a CEO and entrepreneur, you Because as a CEO and entrepreneur, you have to have a certain element of listen have to have a certain element of listen have to have a certain element of listen like we're going on the sacred mission. like we're going on the sacred mission. like we're going on the sacred mission. We're going somewhere big and this is We're going somewhere big and this is We're going somewhere big and this is like this is a beautiful thing. And so like this is a beautiful thing. And so like this is a beautiful thing. And so I've seen that before u where it was I've seen that before u where it was I've seen that before u where it was gone it went the other way and it it gone it went the other way and it it gone it went the other way and it it just wasn't super appealing for me just wasn't super appealing for me just wasn't super appealing for me because I know with any sort of growth because I know with any sort of growth because I know with any sort of growth in in in entrepreneurialism that the you have to entrepreneurialism that the you have to entrepreneurialism that the you have to have that that we're going to do it and have that that we're going to do it and have that that we're going to do it and mindset versus you know the the negative mindset versus you know the the negative mindset versus you know the the negative side of it. side of it. side of it. What do business leaders what do you What do business leaders what do you What do business leaders what do you wish business leaders understood more wish business leaders understood more wish business leaders understood more about church leaders or misunderstand about church leaders or misunderstand about church leaders or misunderstand about church leaders? I mean, we've had about church leaders? I mean, we've had about church leaders? I mean, we've had a pretty good friendship over the years, a pretty good friendship over the years, a pretty good friendship over the years, so I think we know each other well, but so I think we know each other well, but so I think we know each other well, but just generally speaking, what uh what do just generally speaking, what uh what do just generally speaking, what uh what do you wish you knew that business leaders you wish you knew that business leaders you wish you knew that business leaders knew more about church leaders? Yeah. knew more about church leaders? Yeah. knew more about church leaders? Yeah. Well, I I think that I mean, the Well, I I think that I mean, the Well, I I think that I mean, the personality types that you've explained personality types that you've explained personality types that you've explained to me through the years, I think that's to me through the years, I think that's to me through the years, I think that's probably one of the biggest ahas. Well, probably one of the biggest ahas. Well, probably one of the biggest ahas. Well, the whole anagram thing. Well, when I the whole anagram thing. Well, when I the whole anagram thing. Well, when I say personality profiles that when say personality profiles that when say personality profiles that when you're when you have a a church, you you're when you have a a church, you you're when you have a a church, you have you have different we'll say have you have different we'll say have you have different we'll say demographics. You have people that have demographics. You have people that have demographics. You have people that have been there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I've been there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I've been there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I've told you many times, we're not we're told you many times, we're not we're told you many times, we're not we're trying to reach everyone in the city, trying to reach everyone in the city, trying to reach everyone in the city, but we're not for everyone. That's but we're not for everyone. That's but we're not for everyone. That's that's right. And so to be able to, you that's right. And so to be able to, you that's right. And so to be able to, you know, grow a church and I mean it's very know, grow a church and I mean it's very know, grow a church and I mean it's very similar, I guess, in in a sense in in similar, I guess, in in a sense in in similar, I guess, in in a sense in in business is that you got to be very business is that you got to be very business is that you got to be very clear of what your message is and stick

clear of what your message is and stick clear of what your message is and stick with it. And so that's tough when you with it. And so that's tough when you with it. And so that's tough when you have maybe somebody that's been going to have maybe somebody that's been going to have maybe somebody that's been going to that church for, we'll say, decades, and that church for, we'll say, decades, and that church for, we'll say, decades, and you got to be okay with like, here's the you got to be okay with like, here's the you got to be okay with like, here's the message, here's where we're going, this message, here's where we're going, this message, here's where we're going, this is important. is important. is important. and they they may not resonate with that and they they may not resonate with that and they they may not resonate with that and that's tough. I mean, this is and and that's tough. I mean, this is and and that's tough. I mean, this is and you're dealing when you're it's not just you're dealing when you're it's not just you're dealing when you're it's not just business, you're dealing with Jesus business, you're dealing with Jesus business, you're dealing with Jesus Christ. And so, like that Christ. And so, like that Christ. And so, like that becomes more of a a question of do I do becomes more of a a question of do I do becomes more of a a question of do I do I believe that I'm I'm following Jesus's I believe that I'm I'm following Jesus's I believe that I'm I'm following Jesus's path that the direction that you that path that the direction that you that path that the direction that you that you've been giving as the church. But you've been giving as the church. But you've been giving as the church. But some of the the the stories that you've some of the the the stories that you've some of the the the stories that you've had had to go through I think was really had had to go through I think was really had had to go through I think was really insightful. And the other thing as well insightful. And the other thing as well insightful. And the other thing as well is the fact is the fact is the fact that there's a lot that's requested and that there's a lot that's requested and that there's a lot that's requested and asked of of you. So being able to put up asked of of you. So being able to put up asked of of you. So being able to put up uh proper guard rails for yourself as a uh proper guard rails for yourself as a uh proper guard rails for yourself as a pastor because burnout is a real thing pastor because burnout is a real thing pastor because burnout is a real thing as a pastor and I know you talk a lot as a pastor and I know you talk a lot as a pastor and I know you talk a lot about that as well. And I think as an about that as well. And I think as an about that as well. And I think as an entrepreneur, it's easy to see a pastor entrepreneur, it's easy to see a pastor entrepreneur, it's easy to see a pastor up there. Oh, once a week. Oh, that's up there. Oh, once a week. Oh, that's up there. Oh, once a week. Oh, that's all nice. But you guys go through a lot all nice. But you guys go through a lot all nice. But you guys go through a lot through the week and it's just that's through the week and it's just that's through the week and it's just that's that's phenomenal to to know that to that's phenomenal to to know that to that's phenomenal to to know that to have that insight anyways that it's not have that insight anyways that it's not have that insight anyways that it's not just a one day uh job. It's like an just a one day uh job. It's like an just a one day uh job. It's like an everyday job and you have a lot of everyday job and you have a lot of everyday job and you have a lot of people reaching out for you for many people reaching out for you for many people reaching out for you for many different uh situations. Just to add different uh situations. Just to add different uh situations. Just to add nuance to that, I think what I would nuance to that, I think what I would nuance to that, I think what I would tell you and Joanna, you know, when you

tell you and Joanna, you know, when you tell you and Joanna, you know, when you were trying to figure out is this the were trying to figure out is this the were trying to figure out is this the church for us? It was like, look, church for us? It was like, look, church for us? It was like, look, there's a lot of churches in this area. there's a lot of churches in this area. there's a lot of churches in this area. Uh, we play this particular role in the Uh, we play this particular role in the Uh, we play this particular role in the kingdom of God. We're not the kingdom of kingdom of God. We're not the kingdom of kingdom of God. We're not the kingdom of God. And this church is going to work God. And this church is going to work God. And this church is going to work better if you're inviting friends. Like, better if you're inviting friends. Like, better if you're inviting friends. Like, if you're just here to consume, we'll be if you're just here to consume, we'll be if you're just here to consume, we'll be okay. There are other churches that okay. There are other churches that okay. There are other churches that might be better. But if you have friends might be better. But if you have friends might be better. But if you have friends who are close to you or family members who are close to you or family members who are close to you or family members that you want to invite to church who that you want to invite to church who that you want to invite to church who maybe don't go to church, this is going maybe don't go to church, this is going maybe don't go to church, this is going to be a great church for you. And you to be a great church for you. And you to be a great church for you. And you guys were like super inviters when you guys were like super inviters when you guys were like super inviters when you lived in in the Berry area. Super cool. lived in in the Berry area. Super cool. lived in in the Berry area. Super cool. Yeah. Joanna Joanna will say if uh she's Yeah. Joanna Joanna will say if uh she's Yeah. Joanna Joanna will say if uh she's if she likes something, just watch out. if she likes something, just watch out. if she likes something, just watch out. She'll uh she'll make sure she gets all She'll uh she'll make sure she gets all She'll uh she'll make sure she gets all of her all of her friends there. And I of her all of her friends there. And I of her all of her friends there. And I kind of jump onto that bang bandwagon, kind of jump onto that bang bandwagon, kind of jump onto that bang bandwagon, so to speak. But it's been great. And so to speak. But it's been great. And so to speak. But it's been great. And you know, anybody that we've invited you know, anybody that we've invited you know, anybody that we've invited through the years, they've always had a through the years, they've always had a through the years, they've always had a good experience. And come to Jesus as good experience. And come to Jesus as good experience. And come to Jesus as well. There's a number of people. So, um well. There's a number of people. So, um well. There's a number of people. So, um you guys did a great have done a great you guys did a great have done a great you guys did a great have done a great job there. Thank you. Well, we've job there. Thank you. Well, we've job there. Thank you. Well, we've covered a lot. Is there anything in our covered a lot. Is there anything in our covered a lot. Is there anything in our last couple of minutes you we didn't last couple of minutes you we didn't last couple of minutes you we didn't touch on that you want to touch on, touch on that you want to touch on, touch on that you want to touch on, Mark? Yeah, Carrie, I'd just say overall Mark? Yeah, Carrie, I'd just say overall Mark? Yeah, Carrie, I'd just say overall the the biggest thing when it comes down the the biggest thing when it comes down the the biggest thing when it comes down to I'd say growth overall for say church to I'd say growth overall for say church to I'd say growth overall for say church leaders or is number one is surround leaders or is number one is surround leaders or is number one is surround yourself with the best people and strong yourself with the best people and strong yourself with the best people and strong leadership. And so if somebody is like a leadership. And so if somebody is like a leadership. And so if somebody is like a B or C on the team, one of the biggest B or C on the team, one of the biggest B or C on the team, one of the biggest things that I've seen is when I've things that I've seen is when I've things that I've seen is when I've transitioned them off and as hard as it transitioned them off and as hard as it transitioned them off and as hard as it was is one of the hardest things as any was is one of the hardest things as any was is one of the hardest things as any sort of leader is to transition them off sort of leader is to transition them off sort of leader is to transition them off is that I've never regretted that. And

is that I've never regretted that. And is that I've never regretted that. And so it's always been an uplift to me so it's always been an uplift to me so it's always been an uplift to me personally and to our organization. personally and to our organization. personally and to our organization. So when So when So when I leveled up the bar of type of the type I leveled up the bar of type of the type I leveled up the bar of type of the type of people that were coming and the and of people that were coming and the and of people that were coming and the and the skill sets that they bring to the the skill sets that they bring to the the skill sets that they bring to the table and their ability when I leveled table and their ability when I leveled table and their ability when I leveled that up the company grew and so I would that up the company grew and so I would that up the company grew and so I would say that that was probably one of the say that that was probably one of the say that that was probably one of the biggest we'll say biggest we'll say biggest we'll say um insights that I got through the years um insights that I got through the years um insights that I got through the years and I think for all the listeners out and I think for all the listeners out and I think for all the listeners out there that applies even if you aren't there that applies even if you aren't there that applies even if you aren't leading anyone else your your personal leading anyone else your your personal leading anyone else your your personal sphere as well whoever you hang around sphere as well whoever you hang around sphere as well whoever you hang around with, you tend to gravitate to them. So, with, you tend to gravitate to them. So, with, you tend to gravitate to them. So, if you want to just level up your life, if you want to just level up your life, if you want to just level up your life, you get people that are further down the you get people that are further down the you get people that are further down the road and you start hanging around with road and you start hanging around with road and you start hanging around with them and you will gravitate and drift them and you will gravitate and drift them and you will gravitate and drift that way. You know what? That's a real that way. You know what? That's a real that way. You know what? That's a real challenge for a lot of leaders. We're challenge for a lot of leaders. We're challenge for a lot of leaders. We're very loyal and so we hang on to perhaps very loyal and so we hang on to perhaps very loyal and so we hang on to perhaps the the the BNC players on the team a little bit too BNC players on the team a little bit too BNC players on the team a little bit too long. Well, the good news here, Carrie, long. Well, the good news here, Carrie, long. Well, the good news here, Carrie, is that you even have courses on that on is that you even have courses on that on is that you even have courses on that on how to Yeah, we do. So, go check out how to Yeah, we do. So, go check out how to Yeah, we do. So, go check out Car's, you know, Carrie, here's a little Car's, you know, Carrie, here's a little Car's, you know, Carrie, here's a little blurp blur for you. Go check out Car's blurp blur for you. Go check out Car's blurp blur for you. Go check out Car's website. He has training on how to do website. He has training on how to do website. He has training on how to do that and say no without, you know, being that and say no without, you know, being that and say no without, you know, being offensive in any way. And so, you have offensive in any way. And so, you have offensive in any way. And so, you have some really great stuff out there as some really great stuff out there as some really great stuff out there as well. Thanks. We'll link to your well. Thanks. We'll link to your well. Thanks. We'll link to your companies in the show notes and companies in the show notes and companies in the show notes and everything, but if people want to track everything, but if people want to track everything, but if people want to track with you, what do you want to direct with you, what do you want to direct with you, what do you want to direct them to? Um, your social, your podcast, them to? Um, your social, your podcast, them to? Um, your social, your podcast, dude. I love your podcast. Yeah. So, we dude. I love your podcast. Yeah. So, we dude. I love your podcast. Yeah. So, we have one that's geared towards real have one that's geared towards real have one that's geared towards real estate agents, one entrepreneurs, and estate agents, one entrepreneurs, and estate agents, one entrepreneurs, and the multif family investor playbook.

the multif family investor playbook. the multif family investor playbook. Actually, that one is really great. I we Actually, that one is really great. I we Actually, that one is really great. I we have two conversations a week, John and have two conversations a week, John and have two conversations a week, John and my business partner, John and myself, my business partner, John and myself, my business partner, John and myself, where we talk about how we're taking where we talk about how we're taking where we talk about how we're taking down these larger 100 unit apartment down these larger 100 unit apartment down these larger 100 unit apartment buildings, you know, all the challenges buildings, you know, all the challenges buildings, you know, all the challenges we're having through through, you know, we're having through through, you know, we're having through through, you know, taking them down and, you know, how taking them down and, you know, how taking them down and, you know, how we're able to to navigate that that. So, we're able to to navigate that that. So, we're able to to navigate that that. So, Multif Family Investor Playbook, we're Multif Family Investor Playbook, we're Multif Family Investor Playbook, we're on YouTube and we're also on pod Apple on YouTube and we're also on pod Apple on YouTube and we're also on pod Apple podcast and Spotify as well. So, you can podcast and Spotify as well. So, you can podcast and Spotify as well. So, you can check us out there. Cool. Well, Mark, check us out there. Cool. Well, Mark, check us out there. Cool. Well, Mark, thank you so much. Looking forward to thank you so much. Looking forward to thank you so much. Looking forward to hanging out again soon. Yeah. Thanks, hanging out again soon. Yeah. Thanks, hanging out again soon. Yeah. Thanks, Gary. It's a pleasure.