The SECRET to Delivering Engaging Sermons and Talks

It was almost like he left some of that It was almost like he left some of that in me to give the people permission that in me to give the people permission that in me to give the people permission that I'm in front of. And so all that I'm I'm in front of. And so all that I'm I'm in front of. And so all that I'm saying is people working on their saying is people working on their saying is people working on their preaching. It's like what is that thing? preaching. It's like what is that thing? preaching. It's like what is that thing? >> Welcome to the Carrie Newhoff leadership >> Welcome to the Carrie Newhoff leadership >> Welcome to the Carrie Newhoff leadership podcast. Man, today preaching secrets podcast. Man, today preaching secrets podcast. Man, today preaching secrets that actually work. One of the best that actually work. One of the best that actually work. One of the best communicators I know of is Mark Clark communicators I know of is Mark Clark communicators I know of is Mark Clark and we're bringing you the best of the and we're bringing you the best of the and we're bringing you the best of the best. He and I actually when we shot best. He and I actually when we shot best. He and I actually when we shot this conversation had just wrapped up this conversation had just wrapped up this conversation had just wrapped up two days of filming our brand new art of two days of filming our brand new art of two days of filming our brand new art of preaching course. And so we took a lot preaching course. And so we took a lot preaching course. And so we took a lot of the things that we talked about in of the things that we talked about in of the things that we talked about in the course, put them into 90 minutes for the course, put them into 90 minutes for the course, put them into 90 minutes for you. I think you're really going to you. I think you're really going to you. I think you're really going to enjoy this. So, uh, Mark is one of the enjoy this. So, uh, Mark is one of the enjoy this. So, uh, Mark is one of the top communicators I know. He's the top communicators I know. He's the top communicators I know. He's the founder of Village Church in BC, grew to founder of Village Church in BC, grew to founder of Village Church in BC, grew to over 5,000 people, which in Canada is over 5,000 people, which in Canada is over 5,000 people, which in Canada is remarkable. Now he's one of the senior remarkable. Now he's one of the senior remarkable. Now he's one of the senior pastors at Bayside Church in Sacramento, pastors at Bayside Church in Sacramento, pastors at Bayside Church in Sacramento, California, preaches to tens of California, preaches to tens of California, preaches to tens of thousands of people every single week. thousands of people every single week. thousands of people every single week. And so Mark and I share our best tips on And so Mark and I share our best tips on And so Mark and I share our best tips on preaching, uh, theology, strategy, and preaching, uh, theology, strategy, and preaching, uh, theology, strategy, and how to make your communication connect. how to make your communication connect. how to make your communication connect. I think you're really going to enjoy it. I think you're really going to enjoy it. I think you're really going to enjoy it. If you're curious about the art of If you're curious about the art of If you're curious about the art of preaching course, we'll link to it below preaching course, we'll link to it below preaching course, we'll link to it below or go to the art of preachingcourse.com.

or go to the art of preachingcourse.com. or go to the art of preachingcourse.com. Hey, wherever you're watching, be sure Hey, wherever you're watching, be sure Hey, wherever you're watching, be sure to follow and subscribe. If you do that, to follow and subscribe. If you do that, to follow and subscribe. If you do that, then you'll never miss an episode. And then you'll never miss an episode. And then you'll never miss an episode. And we got some incredible preachers coming we got some incredible preachers coming we got some incredible preachers coming up on this podcast. In the meantime, up on this podcast. In the meantime, up on this podcast. In the meantime, let's dive into a word from our trusted let's dive into a word from our trusted let's dive into a word from our trusted partners and then my conversation in partners and then my conversation in partners and then my conversation in Toronto with Mark Clark. This episode is Toronto with Mark Clark. This episode is Toronto with Mark Clark. This episode is brought to you by The Art of Preaching. brought to you by The Art of Preaching. brought to you by The Art of Preaching. Hey, I've got some brand new news. We Hey, I've got some brand new news. We Hey, I've got some brand new news. We have a new version of my course, The Art have a new version of my course, The Art have a new version of my course, The Art of Preaching out now. It's totally of Preaching out now. It's totally of Preaching out now. It's totally revamped from the bottom up. And if revamped from the bottom up. And if revamped from the bottom up. And if you've ever wanted to take your you've ever wanted to take your you've ever wanted to take your preaching to the next level, whether preaching to the next level, whether preaching to the next level, whether that's learning how to craft messages that's learning how to craft messages that's learning how to craft messages that engage and connect, deliver them that engage and connect, deliver them that engage and connect, deliver them with confidence, because a lot of us are with confidence, because a lot of us are with confidence, because a lot of us are very confident, right? or take the very confident, right? or take the very confident, right? or take the stress out of sermon prep. This course stress out of sermon prep. This course stress out of sermon prep. This course was designed for you. I'll show you how was designed for you. I'll show you how was designed for you. I'll show you how to get a month ahead in your preaching to get a month ahead in your preaching to get a month ahead in your preaching and a whole lot more. Now, some of you and a whole lot more. Now, some of you and a whole lot more. Now, some of you may have taken the original course that may have taken the original course that may have taken the original course that was trusted by literally thousands of was trusted by literally thousands of was trusted by literally thousands of pastors and communicators. Well, is this pastors and communicators. Well, is this pastors and communicators. Well, is this different? Yes. We took that foundation, different? Yes. We took that foundation, different? Yes. We took that foundation, expanded it, updated it, totally expanded it, updated it, totally expanded it, updated it, totally revamped it so it's ready to go and made revamped it so it's ready to go and made revamped it so it's ready to go and made it deeper and more practical than ever.

it deeper and more practical than ever. it deeper and more practical than ever. In the course, you're going to learn how In the course, you're going to learn how In the course, you're going to learn how to tell unforgettable stories that drive to tell unforgettable stories that drive to tell unforgettable stories that drive your message home. Use humor the right your message home. Use humor the right your message home. Use humor the right way without being awkward or forced, way without being awkward or forced, way without being awkward or forced, right? Try to find your unique preaching right? Try to find your unique preaching right? Try to find your unique preaching voice so that you sound like you, not voice so that you sound like you, not voice so that you sound like you, not someone else. I'll show you how to ditch someone else. I'll show you how to ditch someone else. I'll show you how to ditch your notes and preach with clarity and your notes and preach with clarity and your notes and preach with clarity and confidence. We'll even show you how to confidence. We'll even show you how to confidence. We'll even show you how to grow your own personal connection with grow your own personal connection with grow your own personal connection with scripture, which is so important, and scripture, which is so important, and scripture, which is so important, and how to grab attention at the start of a how to grab attention at the start of a how to grab attention at the start of a message and keep it until the very last message and keep it until the very last message and keep it until the very last word. Yeah, those are the things that word. Yeah, those are the things that word. Yeah, those are the things that make for a great sermon. We want to see make for a great sermon. We want to see make for a great sermon. We want to see you develop those skills deeply. And you develop those skills deeply. And you develop those skills deeply. And here's the best part. From September here's the best part. From September here's the best part. From September 22nd to October 3rd, you can get special 22nd to October 3rd, you can get special 22nd to October 3rd, you can get special launch pricing. When you use the code launch pricing. When you use the code launch pricing. When you use the code preach at checkout, you'll save $47 off preach at checkout, you'll save $47 off preach at checkout, you'll save $47 off the full price. Check it out by clicking the full price. Check it out by clicking the full price. Check it out by clicking the link in the description or visiting the link in the description or visiting the link in the description or visiting the art of preachingcourse.com. So don't the art of preachingcourse.com. So don't the art of preachingcourse.com. So don't let another Sunday morning fall flat. If let another Sunday morning fall flat. If let another Sunday morning fall flat. If you're ready to preach clear, engaging, you're ready to preach clear, engaging, you're ready to preach clear, engaging, and memorable sermons every time you and memorable sermons every time you and memorable sermons every time you step on the stage or behind the pulpit, step on the stage or behind the pulpit, step on the stage or behind the pulpit, then click the link in the description then click the link in the description then click the link in the description and you can learn more. Well, Mark, both and you can learn more. Well, Mark, both and you can learn more. Well, Mark, both of us have been preaching for years now.

of us have been preaching for years now. of us have been preaching for years now. I would love to start by asking you, how I would love to start by asking you, how I would love to start by asking you, how has your approach changed? I mean, 25 has your approach changed? I mean, 25 has your approach changed? I mean, 25 years of preaching, solo preacher, years of preaching, solo preacher, years of preaching, solo preacher, church plant. church plant. church plant. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What was it like then? What's it like >> What was it like then? What's it like >> What was it like then? What's it like now? now? now? >> Yeah. Uh man, I when I started, >> Yeah. Uh man, I when I started, >> Yeah. Uh man, I when I started, especially when I started the church, I especially when I started the church, I especially when I started the church, I mean, my my early sermons were youth mean, my my early sermons were youth mean, my my early sermons were youth group sermons and so I would spend weeks group sermons and so I would spend weeks group sermons and so I would spend weeks and weeks and weeks prepping that one and weeks and weeks prepping that one and weeks and weeks prepping that one sermon. I mean, it was like I got to sermon. I mean, it was like I got to sermon. I mean, it was like I got to preach three times a year at the youth preach three times a year at the youth preach three times a year at the youth group or the one time was I got to the group or the one time was I got to the group or the one time was I got to the big church uh cuz it was youth day and big church uh cuz it was youth day and big church uh cuz it was youth day and like the youth band played the worship like the youth band played the worship like the youth band played the worship and yeah, they put me up there. So, I and yeah, they put me up there. So, I and yeah, they put me up there. So, I literally prepped this thing for like, literally prepped this thing for like, literally prepped this thing for like, you know, two months and I would just go you know, two months and I would just go you know, two months and I would just go down to the lake near my house and like down to the lake near my house and like down to the lake near my house and like say it all out loud in the front of my say it all out loud in the front of my say it all out loud in the front of my car and preach it to my girlfriend, you car and preach it to my girlfriend, you car and preach it to my girlfriend, you know, all of that. And it just every so know, all of that. And it just every so know, all of that. And it just every so by the time I was up there every story by the time I was up there every story by the time I was up there every story and duh, you know, all of that and so and duh, you know, all of that and so and duh, you know, all of that and so now obviously you don't have that, you now obviously you don't have that, you now obviously you don't have that, you know, that freedom. You got to flip it know, that freedom. You got to flip it know, that freedom. You got to flip it around every week. So, uh, but yeah, around every week. So, uh, but yeah, around every week. So, uh, but yeah, man. I I think the only big difference man. I I think the only big difference man. I I think the only big difference is I still put all the time and the is I still put all the time and the is I still put all the time and the energy into the prep, the reading, the energy into the prep, the reading, the energy into the prep, the reading, the the the the manuscripting it out, you the the the manuscripting it out, you the the the manuscripting it out, you know, getting it to 10 pages, getting it know, getting it to 10 pages, getting it know, getting it to 10 pages, getting it down to four or five pages on Saturday down to four or five pages on Saturday down to four or five pages on Saturday and really sifting through it, and really sifting through it, and really sifting through it, memorizing, preaching it out loud, memorizing, preaching it out loud, memorizing, preaching it out loud, hearing the stories, hearing, okay, hearing the stories, hearing, okay, hearing the stories, hearing, okay, how's this point going to land? How's how's this point going to land? How's how's this point going to land? How's that joke going to land? All of that. Do that joke going to land? All of that. Do that joke going to land? All of that. Do all of that. Um the only difference all of that. Um the only difference all of that. Um the only difference would be I think for 10 years and this would be I think for 10 years and this would be I think for 10 years and this is what I would say to upand cominging is what I would say to upand cominging is what I would say to upand cominging preachers. Um I would do it out loud for

preachers. Um I would do it out loud for preachers. Um I would do it out loud for like three hours on a Saturday night. like three hours on a Saturday night. like three hours on a Saturday night. Wake up 5 in the morning. Do it again Wake up 5 in the morning. Do it again Wake up 5 in the morning. Do it again out loud for another hour or two before out loud for another hour or two before out loud for another hour or two before I got up and preached in front of 100 I got up and preached in front of 100 I got up and preached in front of 100 people. Now I could probably get it to people. Now I could probably get it to people. Now I could probably get it to the place where I'm more reading my the place where I'm more reading my the place where I'm more reading my notes and I go, "Okay, here's what I'm notes and I go, "Okay, here's what I'm notes and I go, "Okay, here's what I'm going to here's what I'm going to here's going to here's what I'm going to here's going to here's what I'm going to here's what I'm" And then what I'm" And then what I'm" And then >> So you don't have to do as much out >> So you don't have to do as much out >> So you don't have to do as much out loud. loud. loud. >> Not as much. But I would say if you >> Not as much. But I would say if you >> Not as much. But I would say if you haven't been doing it 25 years, stick to haven't been doing it 25 years, stick to haven't been doing it 25 years, stick to it out loud and really work that muscle it out loud and really work that muscle it out loud and really work that muscle cuz it's going to make you better, which cuz it's going to make you better, which cuz it's going to make you better, which is what we want to do. We want everyone is what we want to do. We want everyone is what we want to do. We want everyone to be, you know, get as good as they can to be, you know, get as good as they can to be, you know, get as good as they can be. be. be. >> So stories and humor were a part of your >> So stories and humor were a part of your >> So stories and humor were a part of your preaching from the very beginning. preaching from the very beginning. preaching from the very beginning. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Wow. Yeah. And and I think what I found >> Wow. Yeah. And and I think what I found >> Wow. Yeah. And and I think what I found was um that humor is very hard, right? was um that humor is very hard, right? was um that humor is very hard, right? And so what what what I found to be the And so what what what I found to be the And so what what what I found to be the case was um I would find that people case was um I would find that people case was um I would find that people would would react when I would tell a would would react when I would tell a would would react when I would tell a story in a funny way. story in a funny way. story in a funny way. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> And so uh it's not telling jokes. Jokes >> And so uh it's not telling jokes. Jokes >> And so uh it's not telling jokes. Jokes are are are dangerous for preachers. are are are dangerous for preachers. are are are dangerous for preachers. >> You tell a joke and it dies.

>> You tell a joke and it dies. >> You tell a joke and it dies. >> It's like >> It's like >> It's like I've done that. I've done that. I've done that. >> That's a big dangerous moss ball to >> That's a big dangerous moss ball to >> That's a big dangerous moss ball to throw up at the up at the crowd. But if throw up at the up at the crowd. But if throw up at the up at the crowd. But if you tell a funny story and you're you tell a funny story and you're you tell a funny story and you're hitting the the cues along the way, then hitting the the cues along the way, then hitting the the cues along the way, then people are going to laugh and and you people are going to laugh and and you people are going to laugh and and you and and they're going to be with you and and and they're going to be with you and and and they're going to be with you and then you know and then just really work then you know and then just really work then you know and then just really work when it comes to I mean we could do a when it comes to I mean we could do a when it comes to I mean we could do a whole half podcast on this, but when it whole half podcast on this, but when it whole half podcast on this, but when it comes to humor, you have to be super comes to humor, you have to be super comes to humor, you have to be super intentional and study the greats, the intentional and study the greats, the intentional and study the greats, the comedians who there's certain words you comedians who there's certain words you comedians who there's certain words you choose that are funnier than other choose that are funnier than other choose that are funnier than other words, you know. words, you know. words, you know. >> Well, what's an example of a funny word? >> Well, what's an example of a funny word? >> Well, what's an example of a funny word? So example of this is like I tell this So example of this is like I tell this So example of this is like I tell this story when I preach about this joke that story when I preach about this joke that story when I preach about this joke that I told and I use the word hooker I told and I use the word hooker I told and I use the word hooker >> and and when I say when I say hooker >> and and when I say when I say hooker >> and and when I say when I say hooker it's the last word I say and it boom it it's the last word I say and it boom it it's the last word I say and it boom it hits the crowd haha and they laugh just hits the crowd haha and they laugh just hits the crowd haha and they laugh just because the word hooker sounds funnier because the word hooker sounds funnier because the word hooker sounds funnier than prostitute than prostitute than prostitute >> right >> right >> right >> so so if I go you know you yeah you >> so so if I go you know you yeah you >> so so if I go you know you yeah you whatever but whatever but whatever but >> so it's like it's right down to the >> so it's like it's right down to the >> so it's like it's right down to the granular details of like how does a word granular details of like how does a word granular details of like how does a word sound on the ear how does it h when I'm sound on the ear how does it h when I'm sound on the ear how does it h when I'm telling this story and And then so so I telling this story and And then so so I telling this story and And then so so I I know every time I tell a story to an I know every time I tell a story to an I know every time I tell a story to an American audience and I'm trying to tell American audience and I'm trying to tell American audience and I'm trying to tell them I'm Canadian and I make a joke them I'm Canadian and I make a joke them I'm Canadian and I make a joke about the fact like I say, you know, you about the fact like I say, you know, you about the fact like I say, you know, you know I'm Canadian because blah blah blah know I'm Canadian because blah blah blah know I'm Canadian because blah blah blah and then I'll be I'm polite and then da and then I'll be I'm polite and then da and then I'll be I'm polite and then da and sorry, you know, and then they'll and sorry, you know, and then they'll and sorry, you know, and then they'll laugh, right? Because it's like, oh, laugh, right? Because it's like, oh, laugh, right? Because it's like, oh, Canadians are so funny because they Canadians are so funny because they Canadians are so funny because they always say sorry and that's kind of our, always say sorry and that's kind of our, always say sorry and that's kind of our, you know, to Americans it's called you know, to Americans it's called you know, to Americans it's called sorry, not Yeah, we say them wrong.

sorry, not Yeah, we say them wrong. sorry, not Yeah, we say them wrong. Sorry about that. Sorry about that. Sorry about that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Um, and so, so they >> Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Um, and so, so they >> Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Um, and so, so they even like even thinking through I know even like even thinking through I know even like even thinking through I know exactly what to do. I'm going to hit exactly what to do. I'm going to hit exactly what to do. I'm going to hit that beat. Everyone's going to laugh. that beat. Everyone's going to laugh. that beat. Everyone's going to laugh. You know, I tell stories about my You know, I tell stories about my You know, I tell stories about my Tourettes. I tell stories about my Tourettes. I tell stories about my Tourettes. I tell stories about my upbringing. And I make this joke about, upbringing. And I make this joke about, upbringing. And I make this joke about, you know, my dad didn't want my name, my you know, my dad didn't want my name, my you know, my dad didn't want my name, my brother's name to be Matthew because it brother's name to be Matthew because it brother's name to be Matthew because it was biblical. But then four years later, was biblical. But then four years later, was biblical. But then four years later, they had me and he called me Mark. And I they had me and he called me Mark. And I they had me and he called me Mark. And I let it go and people laugh and I go, "So let it go and people laugh and I go, "So let it go and people laugh and I go, "So clearly this guy had never opened up a clearly this guy had never opened up a clearly this guy had never opened up a Bible before in his life because my Bible before in his life because my Bible before in his life because my middle name's Andrew. My brother's middle name's Andrew. My brother's middle name's Andrew. My brother's middle name is James. So we got four middle name is James. So we got four middle name is James. So we got four disciples knocked off before anybody disciples knocked off before anybody disciples knocked off before anybody even knows it and the the audience is even knows it and the the audience is even knows it and the the audience is laughing. There's just a way of laughing. There's just a way of laughing. There's just a way of collecting those words and and hearing collecting those words and and hearing collecting those words and and hearing it over, you know. So I just I mean it over, you know. So I just I mean it over, you know. So I just I mean really working on that craft super really working on that craft super really working on that craft super important for the important for the important for the >> you bring a crowd down like it's so >> you bring a crowd down like it's so >> you bring a crowd down like it's so funny to see you do that. It is a lot of funny to see you do that. It is a lot of funny to see you do that. It is a lot of fun. Who are the some of the comedians fun. Who are the some of the comedians fun. Who are the some of the comedians you study and what do you learn from you study and what do you learn from you study and what do you learn from them? them? them? >> Yeah, it's a great question. So I mean >> Yeah, it's a great question. So I mean >> Yeah, it's a great question. So I mean some of the comedians we probably can't some of the comedians we probably can't some of the comedians we probably can't we some of them we some of them we some of them No, no, no. Yeah, I mean I mean there's No, no, no. Yeah, I mean I mean there's No, no, no. Yeah, I mean I mean there's great the great comedians where you're great the great comedians where you're great the great comedians where you're listening to I mean problem is all these listening to I mean problem is all these listening to I mean problem is all these guys are cancelled.

guys are cancelled. guys are cancelled. >> Oh, >> Oh, >> Oh, >> so I probably can't even >> so I probably can't even >> so I probably can't even >> You probably can't say. So let me just >> You probably can't say. So let me just >> You probably can't say. So let me just say all the but what have you learned say all the but what have you learned say all the but what have you learned from these canceled comedians? from these canceled comedians? from these canceled comedians? >> We're going to keep rolling here. >> We're going to keep rolling here. >> We're going to keep rolling here. >> Yes. Yes. What I what I what I learned >> Yes. Yes. What I what I what I learned >> Yes. Yes. What I what I what I learned from comedians is is exactly that. The from comedians is is exactly that. The from comedians is is exactly that. The way to tell a story, the way to pause at way to tell a story, the way to pause at way to tell a story, the way to pause at the certain times, the way to use the certain times, the way to use the certain times, the way to use certain words, you know, and the crowd certain words, you know, and the crowd certain words, you know, and the crowd connects to them. And I think here connects to them. And I think here connects to them. And I think here here's what I've seen it do in my here's what I've seen it do in my here's what I've seen it do in my preaching. A it makes preaching more fun preaching. A it makes preaching more fun preaching. A it makes preaching more fun >> for the preacher, right? If all you're >> for the preacher, right? If all you're >> for the preacher, right? If all you're doing is just you have tense content for doing is just you have tense content for doing is just you have tense content for 40 minutes and you've got to remember it 40 minutes and you've got to remember it 40 minutes and you've got to remember it all and you've got to theologically all and you've got to theologically all and you've got to theologically makes all these points, you're going to makes all these points, you're going to makes all these points, you're going to have less of a fun time doing what have less of a fun time doing what have less of a fun time doing what you're doing. But if you have and this you're doing. But if you have and this you're doing. But if you have and this is the reciprocal, this is the kind of is the reciprocal, this is the kind of is the reciprocal, this is the kind of flywheel, right? Is you have fun at what flywheel, right? Is you have fun at what flywheel, right? Is you have fun at what you're doing, you're going to be better you're doing, you're going to be better you're doing, you're going to be better at what you're doing. And so if you if at what you're doing. And so if you if at what you're doing. And so if you if you're funny and you can and the crowd you're funny and you can and the crowd you're funny and you can and the crowd gives you some laughs, then you like it, gives you some laughs, then you like it, gives you some laughs, then you like it, then you like what you're doing more and then you like what you're doing more and then you like what you're doing more and then you get better at what you're then you get better at what you're then you get better at what you're doing. And so I'm constantly looking at doing. And so I'm constantly looking at doing. And so I'm constantly looking at a message going, "Okay, if by Saturday, a message going, "Okay, if by Saturday, a message going, "Okay, if by Saturday, just to get super practical, if by s" just to get super practical, if by s" just to get super practical, if by s" because I preach a Saturday uh 5:00 because I preach a Saturday uh 5:00 because I preach a Saturday uh 5:00 service now. Yeah. Okay. So if by service now. Yeah. Okay. So if by service now. Yeah. Okay. So if by Saturday at noon, Saturday at noon, Saturday at noon, >> my sermon set and I have the theology >> my sermon set and I have the theology >> my sermon set and I have the theology and I have the doctrine, and I have the doctrine, and I have the doctrine, >> but it's still too heavy, too. I'll just >> but it's still too heavy, too. I'll just >> but it's still too heavy, too. I'll just sit there and stare out the window and sit there and stare out the window and sit there and stare out the window and go, "What happened to me this week go, "What happened to me this week go, "What happened to me this week that's funny?" Like, and I'll try to that's funny?" Like, and I'll try to that's funny?" Like, and I'll try to find the smallest smallest thing. So, find the smallest smallest thing. So, find the smallest smallest thing. So, this happened to me at Easter just, you this happened to me at Easter just, you this happened to me at Easter just, you know, this last Easter. It just the

know, this last Easter. It just the know, this last Easter. It just the sermon was good, but it just didn't have sermon was good, but it just didn't have sermon was good, but it just didn't have those light humorous moments yet. So, I those light humorous moments yet. So, I those light humorous moments yet. So, I sat and stared out the window sat and stared out the window sat and stared out the window >> and I realized that the day before uh my >> and I realized that the day before uh my >> and I realized that the day before uh my I have this a boxer dog. Okay? So, this I have this a boxer dog. Okay? So, this I have this a boxer dog. Okay? So, this boxer is a maniac and she just she's boxer is a maniac and she just she's boxer is a maniac and she just she's just stupid. She just eats every See, just stupid. She just eats every See, just stupid. She just eats every See, even the word stupid is funny, right? even the word stupid is funny, right? even the word stupid is funny, right? It's funny. It's funny. It's funny. >> Stupid. It has two syllables rather than >> Stupid. It has two syllables rather than >> Stupid. It has two syllables rather than the dog is gets into mischief like the dog is gets into mischief like the dog is gets into mischief like whatever, right? whatever, right? whatever, right? >> So, the dog is stupid. >> So, the dog is stupid. >> So, the dog is stupid. >> So, this is exactly what I said to the >> So, this is exactly what I said to the >> So, this is exactly what I said to the crowd. Exactly how I'm saying it to you. crowd. Exactly how I'm saying it to you. crowd. Exactly how I'm saying it to you. This is how I say it to the crowd. I set This is how I say it to the crowd. I set This is how I say it to the crowd. I set it up for them. it up for them. it up for them. >> And so, I and I go, you know, whatever. >> And so, I and I go, you know, whatever. >> And so, I and I go, you know, whatever. There's a boxer dog. And so, my so my There's a boxer dog. And so, my so my There's a boxer dog. And so, my so my wife has cooked uh has made baked 300 wife has cooked uh has made baked 300 wife has cooked uh has made baked 300 cupcakes for this event we have to go cupcakes for this event we have to go cupcakes for this event we have to go to. So, I get home and they're all to. So, I get home and they're all to. So, I get home and they're all sitting on the dining room table and sitting on the dining room table and sitting on the dining room table and this dog will eat anything. And so, I'm this dog will eat anything. And so, I'm this dog will eat anything. And so, I'm she I get through the day and my and my she I get through the day and my and my she I get through the day and my and my wife looks at me and my kids are lined wife looks at me and my kids are lined wife looks at me and my kids are lined up at the my two daughters are lined up, up at the my two daughters are lined up, up at the my two daughters are lined up, my other daughter's in the other room my other daughter's in the other room my other daughter's in the other room and and my wife looks at me and says, and and my wife looks at me and says, and and my wife looks at me and says, "Here's the deal. I'm going out for two "Here's the deal. I'm going out for two "Here's the deal. I'm going out for two hours, okay? And all I'm asking you to hours, okay? And all I'm asking you to hours, okay? And all I'm asking you to do is to sit on that chair right there. do is to sit on that chair right there. do is to sit on that chair right there. I don't want you to move for two hours I don't want you to move for two hours I don't want you to move for two hours because if you move, this dog is going because if you move, this dog is going because if you move, this dog is going to eat those cupcakes. And if this dog to eat those cupcakes. And if this dog to eat those cupcakes. And if this dog eats those cupcakes, unforgivable. I eats those cupcakes, unforgivable. I eats those cupcakes, unforgivable. I will never forgive you of this sin. So will never forgive you of this sin. So will never forgive you of this sin. So she says, "Eat, you got to sit at the I she says, "Eat, you got to sit at the I she says, "Eat, you got to sit at the I don't care if you need a drink. I don't don't care if you need a drink. I don't don't care if you need a drink. I don't care if you need to go to the bathroom.

care if you need to go to the bathroom. care if you need to go to the bathroom. Do it all now cuz for the next two hours Do it all now cuz for the next two hours Do it all now cuz for the next two hours you are on that chair cuz if that dog you are on that chair cuz if that dog you are on that chair cuz if that dog eats those cupcakes, blah blah." So I'm eats those cupcakes, blah blah." So I'm eats those cupcakes, blah blah." So I'm like sitting there and I'm listening and like sitting there and I'm listening and like sitting there and I'm listening and all I hear is my oldest daughter Sienna all I hear is my oldest daughter Sienna all I hear is my oldest daughter Sienna from the other room yell out, "Stop from the other room yell out, "Stop from the other room yell out, "Stop giving him all these instructions. giving him all these instructions. giving him all these instructions. You're setting him up for failure." You're setting him up for failure." You're setting him up for failure." And and and she's like, "This is going And and and she's like, "This is going And and and she's like, "This is going to be a sermon illustration." and this to be a sermon illustration." and this to be a sermon illustration." and this is what she yells and just the concept is what she yells and just the concept is what she yells and just the concept of you're setting me up for failure. Of of you're setting me up for failure. Of of you're setting me up for failure. Of course, the crowd laughs and and then I course, the crowd laughs and and then I course, the crowd laughs and and then I kind of followed up by going like how kind of followed up by going like how kind of followed up by going like how what kind of lowest common denominator what kind of lowest common denominator what kind of lowest common denominator must these people think of me? How must these people think of me? How must these people think of me? How stupid must they think I am? They have stupid must they think I am? They have stupid must they think I am? They have to give me all these instructions to give me all these instructions to give me all these instructions because because because >> I have three daughters at home which is >> I have three daughters at home which is >> I have three daughters at home which is means I have a wife, three daughters means I have a wife, three daughters means I have a wife, three daughters which means I live with four mothers, which means I live with four mothers, which means I live with four mothers, right? And they constantly tell me what right? And they constantly tell me what right? And they constantly tell me what to do and they constantly tell me what I to do and they constantly tell me what I to do and they constantly tell me what I do wrong and the c and this is guys what do wrong and the c and this is guys what do wrong and the c and this is guys what is wrong you know. So I'm tell these is wrong you know. So I'm tell these is wrong you know. So I'm tell these stories and it's it's the way the story stories and it's it's the way the story stories and it's it's the way the story unfolds. It's the setup. It's the unfolds. It's the setup. It's the unfolds. It's the setup. It's the certain things and the crowd has a fun certain things and the crowd has a fun certain things and the crowd has a fun time and they that that chemical thing time and they that that chemical thing time and they that that chemical thing that happens when they're laughing goes that happens when they're laughing goes that happens when they're laughing goes through their body and then they they through their body and then they they through their body and then they they warm they hit the gospel but they bring warm they hit the gospel but they bring warm they hit the gospel but they bring their friends and and when I meet them their friends and and when I meet them their friends and and when I meet them they're always like man you just you they're always like man you just you they're always like man you just you give us the hard because what what give us the hard because what what give us the hard because what what happens is here's my little someone happens is here's my little someone happens is here's my little someone pointed this out to me uh recently they pointed this out to me uh recently they pointed this out to me uh recently they said here's your style you play and then said here's your style you play and then said here's your style you play and then you punch so you get everybody all and you punch so you get everybody all and you punch so you get everybody all and All of a sudden you go bam.

All of a sudden you go bam. All of a sudden you go bam. >> Like you like I'll tell that story about >> Like you like I'll tell that story about >> Like you like I'll tell that story about me being dumb and I'll be like it's not me being dumb and I'll be like it's not me being dumb and I'll be like it's not hard for me to be humble when you live hard for me to be humble when you live hard for me to be humble when you live with women like that and everyone's with women like that and everyone's with women like that and everyone's laughing and all of a sudden my pivot laughing and all of a sudden my pivot laughing and all of a sudden my pivot will be but some of you walk in here and will be but some of you walk in here and will be but some of you walk in here and you think you're so cool that you're so you think you're so cool that you're so you think you're so cool that you're so beautiful that you got the nice car and beautiful that you got the nice car and beautiful that you got the nice car and the nice job that you think you could the nice job that you think you could the nice job that you think you could get into heaven just by being you. But get into heaven just by being you. But get into heaven just by being you. But here's the problem. You're not being here's the problem. You're not being here's the problem. You're not being humble enough to realize that you are humble enough to realize that you are humble enough to realize that you are broken, too. And you are, you know, the broken, too. And you are, you know, the broken, too. And you are, you know, the only way into the kingdom is by being only way into the kingdom is by being only way into the kingdom is by being humble enough. humble enough. humble enough. >> Play and punch. Play and punch. How did >> Play and punch. Play and punch. How did >> Play and punch. Play and punch. How did the story end? The doggy the the story end? The doggy the the story end? The doggy the >> I sat there at that table and I just >> I sat there at that table and I just >> I sat there at that table and I just didn't let that dog. I I won. I I had didn't let that dog. I I won. I I had didn't let that dog. I I won. I I had victory. It was a good day. I did what I victory. It was a good day. I did what I victory. It was a good day. I did what I was told to do. was told to do. was told to do. >> But the fun is in the story telling. >> But the fun is in the story telling. >> But the fun is in the story telling. It's in the telling. It's in the telling. It's in the telling. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Cool. Um, how many hours on average >> Cool. Um, how many hours on average >> Cool. Um, how many hours on average would you put into a typical sermon? would you put into a typical sermon? would you put into a typical sermon? >> Uh, I'd probably say, >> Uh, I'd probably say, >> Uh, I'd probably say, well, um, you know, you know what it's well, um, you know, you know what it's well, um, you know, you know what it's like. You're kind of dripping in like. You're kind of dripping in like. You're kind of dripping in information. Yeah.

information. Yeah. information. Yeah. >> All the time. >> All the time. >> All the time. >> You know, you're, hey, a month from now, >> You know, you're, hey, a month from now, >> You know, you're, hey, a month from now, I'm going to be dealing with X. So, I'm going to be dealing with X. So, I'm going to be dealing with X. So, >> yeah. So, I got the Google Doc open for >> yeah. So, I got the Google Doc open for >> yeah. So, I got the Google Doc open for two or three weeks in a row, and two or three weeks in a row, and two or three weeks in a row, and whenever life happens to me, I'm just whenever life happens to me, I'm just whenever life happens to me, I'm just filing it. You know, I'm in the grocery filing it. You know, I'm in the grocery filing it. You know, I'm in the grocery store and someone says this and I was I store and someone says this and I was I store and someone says this and I was I was walking through um Target with my was walking through um Target with my was walking through um Target with my daughter the other day and a woman daughter the other day and a woman daughter the other day and a woman walked up to me and she says, "Mark, walked up to me and she says, "Mark, walked up to me and she says, "Mark, your sermon has changed my life." And your sermon has changed my life." And your sermon has changed my life." And I'm like, "Wow." She's like, "Yeah, I I I'm like, "Wow." She's like, "Yeah, I I I'm like, "Wow." She's like, "Yeah, I I just can't." And and I'm like, "Yeah, just can't." And and I'm like, "Yeah, just can't." And and I'm like, "Yeah, what's up? Like, let's let's talk about what's up? Like, let's let's talk about what's up? Like, let's let's talk about this. this. this. >> Let's let's nail this. Tell me more. >> Let's let's nail this. Tell me more. >> Let's let's nail this. Tell me more. Tell me more." And she's talking to me Tell me more." And she's talking to me Tell me more." And she's talking to me and then I walked away and I looked down and then I walked away and I looked down and then I walked away and I looked down the the the aisle of Target and there's the the the aisle of Target and there's the the the aisle of Target and there's these two guys. Of course, I got these two guys. Of course, I got these two guys. Of course, I got Tourette's and which means I make these Tourette's and which means I make these Tourette's and which means I make these weird noises and my tick right now is I weird noises and my tick right now is I weird noises and my tick right now is I go like this. I go right this dumb go like this. I go right this dumb go like this. I go right this dumb little noise. little noise. little noise. >> So, so I this lady tells me that I >> So, so I this lady tells me that I >> So, so I this lady tells me that I changed her life and I'm the greatest changed her life and I'm the greatest changed her life and I'm the greatest thing that's ever happened and I'm like thing that's ever happened and I'm like thing that's ever happened and I'm like feeling it a little bit and I walk past feeling it a little bit and I walk past feeling it a little bit and I walk past two aisles down and I look and there's two aisles down and I look and there's two aisles down and I look and there's just two teenage boys and the whole just two teenage boys and the whole just two teenage boys and the whole aisle just reeks like weed. Okay, they aisle just reeks like weed. Okay, they aisle just reeks like weed. Okay, they just smoke the joint outside or whatever just smoke the joint outside or whatever just smoke the joint outside or whatever and they're in the chip aisle of course and they're in the chip aisle of course and they're in the chip aisle of course like give me the munchies, you know, like give me the munchies, you know, like give me the munchies, you know, whatever. And they look up at me and whatever. And they look up at me and whatever. And they look up at me and they're just like they're just like they're just like And they and they make my honking noise And they and they make my honking noise And they and they make my honking noise right in my face cuz I must have just right in my face cuz I must have just right in my face cuz I must have just made it. And so now they're making fun made it. And so now they're making fun made it. And so now they're making fun of me and I'm like, "You bunch of of me and I'm like, "You bunch of of me and I'm like, "You bunch of losers. I just feel like punching you losers. I just feel like punching you losers. I just feel like punching you both in the face for the cause of Christ both in the face for the cause of Christ both in the face for the cause of Christ right now, but I can't, you know, and right now, but I can't, you know, and right now, but I can't, you know, and and here's the thing. I tell that story and here's the thing. I tell that story and here's the thing. I tell that story and I look at the audience and I go, and I look at the audience and I go, and I look at the audience and I go, "This is how God humbles me. He The

"This is how God humbles me. He The "This is how God humbles me. He The minute I feel cool, the minute I feel minute I feel cool, the minute I feel minute I feel cool, the minute I feel like I've succeeded in life, he grinds like I've succeeded in life, he grinds like I've succeeded in life, he grinds me down to the ground. Goes, you loser. me down to the ground. Goes, you loser. me down to the ground. Goes, you loser. Who do you think you are? You have to Who do you think you are? You have to Who do you think you are? You have to become like a child to get into the become like a child to get into the become like a child to get into the kingdom. Blessed are the poor in spirit kingdom. Blessed are the poor in spirit kingdom. Blessed are the poor in spirit who don't bring anything to the table. who don't bring anything to the table. who don't bring anything to the table. So, when those moments happen and I'm So, when those moments happen and I'm So, when those moments happen and I'm walking through Target on a Monday, I walking through Target on a Monday, I walking through Target on a Monday, I jot that down and I know it's going to jot that down and I know it's going to jot that down and I know it's going to be a sermon. I don't know. I don't know be a sermon. I don't know. I don't know be a sermon. I don't know. I don't know how it's going to be used yet. how it's going to be used yet. how it's going to be used yet. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> But all it probably existed as was >> But all it probably existed as was >> But all it probably existed as was Target teenagers. That's how it how Target teenagers. That's how it how Target teenagers. That's how it how that's how it got punched into the that's how it got punched into the that's how it got punched into the Google doc. Google doc. Google doc. >> And then it becomes it takes on a life >> And then it becomes it takes on a life >> And then it becomes it takes on a life of its own. And you know, sometimes of its own. And you know, sometimes of its own. And you know, sometimes it'll come out of the text. Sometimes it'll come out of the text. Sometimes it'll come out of the text. Sometimes you you put it in there a little bit cuz you you put it in there a little bit cuz you you put it in there a little bit cuz you're looking for a moment of humor. you're looking for a moment of humor. you're looking for a moment of humor. And at that point, I looked at the crowd And at that point, I looked at the crowd And at that point, I looked at the crowd and I said, "You are here and you think and I said, "You are here and you think and I said, "You are here and you think you have your whole life together and you have your whole life together and you have your whole life together and you've never bowed down to anybody you've never bowed down to anybody you've never bowed down to anybody because you're not humble enough. You because you're not humble enough. You because you're not humble enough. You got too much pride in your life." And got too much pride in your life." And got too much pride in your life." And then I use those stories to talk about then I use those stories to talk about then I use those stories to talk about how I get humbled. But you got to pay how I get humbled. But you got to pay how I get humbled. But you got to pay attention to humility because when God attention to humility because when God attention to humility because when God does that, he's trying to say something does that, he's trying to say something does that, he's trying to say something about what I'm not. And some of you walk about what I'm not. And some of you walk about what I'm not. And some of you walk in here and you think you got your whole in here and you think you got your whole in here and you think you got your whole life together and you'll never humble life together and you'll never humble life together and you'll never humble yourself and bow down like these women yourself and bow down like these women yourself and bow down like these women did. And the people they're like and did. And the people they're like and did. And the people they're like and then all of a sudden I hit them with a then all of a sudden I hit them with a then all of a sudden I hit them with a hard truth and they're like they're more hard truth and they're like they're more hard truth and they're like they're more willing to take it in than if I just got willing to take it in than if I just got willing to take it in than if I just got up and went some of you are not humble up and went some of you are not humble up and went some of you are not humble you must be humble.

you must be humble. you must be humble. >> Next point you know so >> Next point you know so >> Next point you know so so coming back to your question. How so coming back to your question. How so coming back to your question. How long does it take? I'm dripping in long does it take? I'm dripping in long does it take? I'm dripping in experiences and stories all week. I experiences and stories all week. I experiences and stories all week. I formalize it. It's probably 10 I would formalize it. It's probably 10 I would formalize it. It's probably 10 I would think 10 hours by the time it's written, think 10 hours by the time it's written, think 10 hours by the time it's written, edited, memorized. edited, memorized. edited, memorized. >> 10. Yeah. >> 10. Yeah. >> 10. Yeah. >> I've noticed. Yeah. It used to be more >> I've noticed. Yeah. It used to be more >> I've noticed. Yeah. It used to be more for me, too. And I remember when I for me, too. And I remember when I for me, too. And I remember when I transitioned from founding to teaching transitioned from founding to teaching transitioned from founding to teaching pastor at our church, I was talking to pastor at our church, I was talking to pastor at our church, I was talking to I'm not going to drop a name, but a very I'm not going to drop a name, but a very I'm not going to drop a name, but a very well-known preacher and I'm like, "Yeah, well-known preacher and I'm like, "Yeah, well-known preacher and I'm like, "Yeah, it's just not Yeah. Charles Spurgeon." it's just not Yeah. Charles Spurgeon." it's just not Yeah. Charles Spurgeon." Exactly. I drop by to see Spurgeon. Exactly. I drop by to see Spurgeon. Exactly. I drop by to see Spurgeon. Yeah. Yeah. You Yeah. Yeah. You Yeah. Yeah. You >> and Spurgeon hang out. >> and Spurgeon hang out. >> and Spurgeon hang out. >> So, when when when Spurgeon and >> So, when when when Spurgeon and >> So, when when when Spurgeon and Whitfield and I, you know, were getting Whitfield and I, you know, were getting Whitfield and I, you know, were getting together, um, no, what what what it was, together, um, no, what what what it was, together, um, no, what what what it was, I just said, you know, it's just not a I just said, you know, it's just not a I just said, you know, it's just not a full-time job. I I got to find other full-time job. I I got to find other full-time job. I I got to find other things to do. And he looked at me, he's things to do. And he looked at me, he's things to do. And he looked at me, he's a few years older than me, and he just a few years older than me, and he just a few years older than me, and he just said, said, said, >> "If it takes you and I at this stage 40 >> "If it takes you and I at this stage 40 >> "If it takes you and I at this stage 40 hours to write a message, we don't know hours to write a message, we don't know hours to write a message, we don't know how to write a message." Yeah. how to write a message." Yeah. how to write a message." Yeah. >> And I think, you know, if you're >> And I think, you know, if you're >> And I think, you know, if you're starting out, it's probably 20 25 hours. starting out, it's probably 20 25 hours. starting out, it's probably 20 25 hours. And I would say I'm now 8 to 10 hours And I would say I'm now 8 to 10 hours And I would say I'm now 8 to 10 hours because you've also got all these reps.

because you've also got all these reps. because you've also got all these reps. You also know the shortcut. Not the You also know the shortcut. Not the You also know the shortcut. Not the shortcuts, but you're not spinning your shortcuts, but you're not spinning your shortcuts, but you're not spinning your wheels as much in the in the in the in wheels as much in the in the in the in wheels as much in the in the in the in the ditch. So, the ditch. So, the ditch. So, >> yeah. Mark, how do you personally know >> yeah. Mark, how do you personally know >> yeah. Mark, how do you personally know when you preached a great sermon? Like, when you preached a great sermon? Like, when you preached a great sermon? Like, how do you know that this dropped? how do you know that this dropped? how do you know that this dropped? Because I know for me, you and I, we've Because I know for me, you and I, we've Because I know for me, you and I, we've just done this new art of preaching just done this new art of preaching just done this new art of preaching course, right? course, right? course, right? >> And I know for me, >> And I know for me, >> And I know for me, >> I don't I'm not the best judge of it. >> I don't I'm not the best judge of it. >> I don't I'm not the best judge of it. Like, there'll be times where I'm like, Like, there'll be times where I'm like, Like, there'll be times where I'm like, I nailed that and God seems to do I nailed that and God seems to do I nailed that and God seems to do nothing with the message. Other times nothing with the message. Other times nothing with the message. Other times I'm halfway through going, "This is I'm halfway through going, "This is I'm halfway through going, "This is awful. I don't know what to do." And awful. I don't know what to do." And awful. I don't know what to do." And woman says, "Change my life." like you woman says, "Change my life." like you woman says, "Change my life." like you know 5 years later remember that sermon know 5 years later remember that sermon know 5 years later remember that sermon you did on when you said it's like no um you did on when you said it's like no um you did on when you said it's like no um so it can be really difficult to know so it can be really difficult to know so it can be really difficult to know when you've nailed it when you've nailed it when you've nailed it >> how do you know >> how do you know >> how do you know >> well to your point I think it's >> well to your point I think it's >> well to your point I think it's impossible almost because the Holy impossible almost because the Holy impossible almost because the Holy Spirit you know God what is that old Spirit you know God what is that old Spirit you know God what is that old line God writes straight with crooked line God writes straight with crooked line God writes straight with crooked lines it's like he could take the worst lines it's like he could take the worst lines it's like he could take the worst sermon I mean I remember there was a sermon I mean I remember there was a sermon I mean I remember there was a sermon I preached years ago and it was sermon I preached years ago and it was sermon I preached years ago and it was one of those like Jonah Jonah sermons one of those like Jonah Jonah sermons one of those like Jonah Jonah sermons where like where like where like >> I love preaching Jonah Yeah. No, but it >> I love preaching Jonah Yeah. No, but it >> I love preaching Jonah Yeah. No, but it was like a a Jonah sermon in the sense was like a a Jonah sermon in the sense was like a a Jonah sermon in the sense of like Ian about those people that I'm of like Ian about those people that I'm of like Ian about those people that I'm preaching at. I'm miserable. I'm in a preaching at. I'm miserable. I'm in a preaching at. I'm miserable. I'm in a bad mood. I I walk out from backstage.

bad mood. I I walk out from backstage. bad mood. I I walk out from backstage. I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, >> that's a Jonah sermon. >> that's a Jonah sermon. >> that's a Jonah sermon. >> I hasn't tithed in three years. This >> I hasn't tithed in three years. This >> I hasn't tithed in three years. This guy's been sitting in the same chair his guy's been sitting in the same chair his guy's been sitting in the same chair his whole life. I don't even want to preach whole life. I don't even want to preach whole life. I don't even want to preach to these people. So, they're like, "You to these people. So, they're like, "You to these people. So, they're like, "You have to." I'm like, "What?" So, I go out have to." I'm like, "What?" So, I go out have to." I'm like, "What?" So, I go out and pre like, "God hates you. Figure it and pre like, "God hates you. Figure it and pre like, "God hates you. Figure it out." I don't know. You know, just leave out." I don't know. You know, just leave out." I don't know. You know, just leave you. Yeah. and they're like, "Oh my you. Yeah. and they're like, "Oh my you. Yeah. and they're like, "Oh my gosh, we need to train our ushers in how gosh, we need to train our ushers in how gosh, we need to train our ushers in how to in how to uh lead people to Christ to in how to uh lead people to Christ to in how to uh lead people to Christ because there was so many people that because there was so many people that because there was so many people that came to Christ that we couldn't keep up came to Christ that we couldn't keep up came to Christ that we couldn't keep up with it." And I'm like, "Wait, with it." And I'm like, "Wait, with it." And I'm like, "Wait, >> that was a sermon where you were >> that was a sermon where you were >> that was a sermon where you were basically running away." basically running away." basically running away." >> There's nothing. I just a garbage sermon >> There's nothing. I just a garbage sermon >> There's nothing. I just a garbage sermon in my view. So, what the Holy Spirit in my view. So, what the Holy Spirit in my view. So, what the Holy Spirit does with these things is is crazy to does with these things is is crazy to does with these things is is crazy to your point. But I think when you see your point. But I think when you see your point. But I think when you see transformation in people's lives, when transformation in people's lives, when transformation in people's lives, when you see people in the seats like you see people in the seats like you see people in the seats like physically, physically, physically, I mean, they could be crying, they could I mean, they could be crying, they could I mean, they could be crying, they could be they could be just you can see them be they could be just you can see them be they could be just you can see them processing going, man. Okay. You can see processing going, man. Okay. You can see processing going, man. Okay. You can see them writing notes in their Bible. You them writing notes in their Bible. You them writing notes in their Bible. You can hear stories. You could, you know, can hear stories. You could, you know, can hear stories. You could, you know, on Instagram, it's interesting. You have on Instagram, it's interesting. You have on Instagram, it's interesting. You have these unsolicited these unsolicited these unsolicited people in the balcony who take video of people in the balcony who take video of people in the balcony who take video of that one minute and then repost it and that one minute and then repost it and that one minute and then repost it and say, "Y'all got to listen to this. just say, "Y'all got to listen to this. just say, "Y'all got to listen to this. just change our life or they put all their change our life or they put all their change our life or they put all their notes on Instagram and say here's what I notes on Instagram and say here's what I notes on Instagram and say here's what I got out of the sermon and that's just got out of the sermon and that's just got out of the sermon and that's just raw you know what that raw feedback raw you know what that raw feedback raw you know what that raw feedback right cuz cuz you know as we talked right cuz cuz you know as we talked right cuz cuz you know as we talked about in the the art of preaching course about in the the art of preaching course about in the the art of preaching course like the feedback from your staff is like the feedback from your staff is like the feedback from your staff is often times littered with often times littered with often times littered with >> you know other is it highest paid person >> you know other is it highest paid person >> you know other is it highest paid person in the room like hippo in the room like hippo in the room like hippo >> it's like so if you can fire them

>> it's like so if you can fire them >> it's like so if you can fire them >> yes >> yes >> yes >> they're probably not going to tell you >> they're probably not going to tell you >> they're probably not going to tell you that was a stinker you really did not that was a stinker you really did not that was a stinker you really did not prepare. Right. prepare. Right. prepare. Right. >> I remember though, I was I was at >> I remember though, I was I was at >> I remember though, I was I was at Starbucks one time and these two ladies Starbucks one time and these two ladies Starbucks one time and these two ladies were chatting and they're like, "Have were chatting and they're like, "Have were chatting and they're like, "Have you been over to that village church?" you been over to that village church?" you been over to that village church?" You know, when I was still villaging You know, when I was still villaging You know, when I was still villaging >> and uh I was at Starbucks and I was just >> and uh I was at Starbucks and I was just >> and uh I was at Starbucks and I was just working, you know, under my hood or working, you know, under my hood or working, you know, under my hood or something and they had a whole something and they had a whole something and they had a whole conversation about me and the church and conversation about me and the church and conversation about me and the church and it just was totally raw because it just was totally raw because it just was totally raw because >> And they didn't know you were there, >> And they didn't know you were there, >> And they didn't know you were there, right? Yeah. And it was great. It was right? Yeah. And it was great. It was right? Yeah. And it was great. It was great to hear. It was interesting. great to hear. It was interesting. great to hear. It was interesting. >> What did you learn? >> What did you learn? >> What did you learn? >> Uh nothing >> Uh nothing >> Uh nothing personal. personal. personal. >> Next question. >> Next question. >> Next question. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> Yeah. Yeah, >> Yeah. Yeah, >> next question. Yeah, you know, it's it's >> next question. Yeah, you know, it's it's >> next question. Yeah, you know, it's it's interesting, too. I find the best way to interesting, too. I find the best way to interesting, too. I find the best way to know whether it landed, sometimes you know whether it landed, sometimes you know whether it landed, sometimes you just know. Often you don't. But if you just know. Often you don't. But if you just know. Often you don't. But if you want to grow as a communicator, the best want to grow as a communicator, the best want to grow as a communicator, the best way to grow as a communicator is to get way to grow as a communicator is to get way to grow as a communicator is to get a fellow communicator to critique your a fellow communicator to critique your a fellow communicator to critique your sermon. Like, if you look at my message sermon. Like, if you look at my message sermon. Like, if you look at my message or someone else who preaches regularly or someone else who preaches regularly or someone else who preaches regularly looks at my message and they watch, they looks at my message and they watch, they looks at my message and they watch, they listen, and they're like, "Hey, if you listen, and they're like, "Hey, if you listen, and they're like, "Hey, if you had moved that story up and twisted it had moved that story up and twisted it had moved that story up and twisted it this way, this way, this way, >> I think it would have been more >> I think it would have been more >> I think it would have been more effective." The average person they have effective." The average person they have effective." The average person they have one category. It was good or it wasn't.

one category. It was good or it wasn't. one category. It was good or it wasn't. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It was like how did it do? It was good. >> It was like how did it do? It was good. >> It was like how did it do? It was good. >> Why? Don't know. Don't know. >> Why? Don't know. Don't know. >> Why? Don't know. Don't know. >> Right. Yeah. It was I don't think that >> Right. Yeah. It was I don't think that >> Right. Yeah. It was I don't think that one hit the mark. Why? You don't know. one hit the mark. Why? You don't know. one hit the mark. Why? You don't know. You can't grow from that. You can't grow from that. You can't grow from that. >> So, by getting other communicators and >> So, by getting other communicators and >> So, by getting other communicators and that could be like a colleague in your that could be like a colleague in your that could be like a colleague in your denomination, that could be someone on denomination, that could be someone on denomination, that could be someone on your staff. If you don't have a staff, your staff. If you don't have a staff, your staff. If you don't have a staff, you know, you ask a friend or if you're you know, you ask a friend or if you're you know, you ask a friend or if you're in a teaching team to get that kind. But in a teaching team to get that kind. But in a teaching team to get that kind. But you have to be open, right? When people you have to be open, right? When people you have to be open, right? When people say to you, say to you, say to you, >> you got to receive it. >> you got to receive it. >> you got to receive it. >> Hey, this did not really work out. You >> Hey, this did not really work out. You >> Hey, this did not really work out. You got to sit there open, humbly going, got to sit there open, humbly going, got to sit there open, humbly going, "All right, all right, I receive that." "All right, all right, I receive that." "All right, all right, I receive that." Rather than defending yourself and Rather than defending yourself and Rather than defending yourself and >> trying to do that. Um, I want to break >> trying to do that. Um, I want to break >> trying to do that. Um, I want to break down sermons a little bit because we down sermons a little bit because we down sermons a little bit because we teach, we go way into the deep end in teach, we go way into the deep end in teach, we go way into the deep end in the art of preaching course, but I want the art of preaching course, but I want the art of preaching course, but I want to talk about sermon introductions. to talk about sermon introductions. to talk about sermon introductions. >> That opening minute or two. >> That opening minute or two. >> That opening minute or two. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Is really pivotal. >> Is really pivotal. >> Is really pivotal. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What's the best way to use it? >> What's the best way to use it? >> What's the best way to use it? >> Yeah. I mean, I I don't agree with the >> Yeah. I mean, I I don't agree with the >> Yeah. I mean, I I don't agree with the old, you know, preaching course that old, you know, preaching course that old, you know, preaching course that said, "Tell them what you're going to said, "Tell them what you're going to said, "Tell them what you're going to say, say it, then tell them what you say, say it, then tell them what you say, say it, then tell them what you said." It's like, "No, by the time said." It's like, "No, by the time said." It's like, "No, by the time you've told them what you're going to you've told them what you're going to you've told them what you're going to say, everyone's bored and checked out say, everyone's bored and checked out say, everyone's bored and checked out and looking at their clock going, I got and looking at their clock going, I got and looking at their clock going, I got to get out of here for lunch."

to get out of here for lunch." to get out of here for lunch." >> Yeah. That's not That's no movie or >> Yeah. That's not That's no movie or >> Yeah. That's not That's no movie or novel that follows that plot. Yeah. We novel that follows that plot. Yeah. We novel that follows that plot. Yeah. We meet Mark and Carrie. Mark murders meet Mark and Carrie. Mark murders meet Mark and Carrie. Mark murders Carrie. Uh and then afterwards Carrie. Uh and then afterwards Carrie. Uh and then afterwards >> spend some time traveling to Mordor and >> spend some time traveling to Mordor and >> spend some time traveling to Mordor and then he will throw his ring into Mordor. then he will throw his ring into Mordor. then he will throw his ring into Mordor. Now let's begin. Now let's begin. Now let's begin. >> Right. You ruined the mystery, right? >> Right. You ruined the mystery, right? >> Right. You ruined the mystery, right? You you ruined that. You you ruined that. You you ruined that. >> Yeah. So >> Yeah. So >> Yeah. So >> So no, don't do that. >> So no, don't do that. >> So no, don't do that. >> No, just get to it. Everyone's busy. >> No, just get to it. Everyone's busy. >> No, just get to it. Everyone's busy. Everyone Look, the people who are Everyone Look, the people who are Everyone Look, the people who are sitting there sitting there sitting there >> are are their lives are a wreck, you >> are are their lives are a wreck, you >> are are their lives are a wreck, you know. Um they're know. Um they're know. Um they're >> And you'll tell them that you're just >> And you'll tell them that you're just >> And you'll tell them that you're just sitting there. Your life's a wreck. sitting there. Your life's a wreck. sitting there. Your life's a wreck. >> I tell them that every week. And they do >> I tell them that every week. And they do >> I tell them that every week. And they do actually. But but they find actually. But but they find actually. But but they find >> they find a lot of uh freedom in that, a >> they find a lot of uh freedom in that, a >> they find a lot of uh freedom in that, a lot of permission in that because it's lot of permission in that because it's lot of permission in that because it's okay to be correct. okay to be correct. okay to be correct. >> You know, I was talking about someone >> You know, I was talking about someone >> You know, I was talking about someone the other day and they, you know, they the other day and they, you know, they the other day and they, you know, they said, you know, my wife and I on a said, you know, my wife and I on a said, you know, my wife and I on a stage, my wife and I have never had a stage, my wife and I have never had a stage, my wife and I have never had a fight about money. And I'm just like, fight about money. And I'm just like, fight about money. And I'm just like, see, that's not helpful. see, that's not helpful. see, that's not helpful. >> I'd rather say my wife and I fight about >> I'd rather say my wife and I fight about >> I'd rather say my wife and I fight about money all the time because we're just money all the time because we're just money all the time because we're just like you because we're normal people like you because we're normal people like you because we're normal people like you and you always fight about like you and you always fight about like you and you always fight about money. money. money. >> We were talking about this at dinner >> We were talking about this at dinner >> We were talking about this at dinner last night. I I heard that line years last night. I I heard that line years last night. I I heard that line years ago. My wife and I have never fought ago. My wife and I have never fought ago. My wife and I have never fought about money. And I just thought, well, about money. And I just thought, well, about money. And I just thought, well, we've fought about money a lot. So when we've fought about money a lot. So when we've fought about money a lot. So when I preached that, you know, topic, I I preached that, you know, topic, I I preached that, you know, topic, I said, my wife and I have not only had a said, my wife and I have not only had a said, my wife and I have not only had a fight about money. We've invented topics fight about money. We've invented topics fight about money. We've invented topics to argue about. Like there were topics to argue about. Like there were topics to argue about. Like there were topics that didn't exist that we invented, so that didn't exist that we invented, so that didn't exist that we invented, so we could argue about it. And when you do we could argue about it. And when you do we could argue about it. And when you do that, what do you do? You put yourself that, what do you do? You put yourself that, what do you do? You put yourself People go, "Oh, you two."

People go, "Oh, you two." People go, "Oh, you two." >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Oh, okay. Like if you've been married >> Oh, okay. Like if you've been married >> Oh, okay. Like if you've been married for 8 minutes, guess what? You've had an for 8 minutes, guess what? You've had an for 8 minutes, guess what? You've had an argument. argument. argument. >> You argued on the way to the wedding. >> You argued on the way to the wedding. >> You argued on the way to the wedding. Like, come on. so important. And and Like, come on. so important. And and Like, come on. so important. And and just on that note, I you know, just on that note, I you know, just on that note, I you know, >> I when I when I was a kid, I got >> I when I when I was a kid, I got >> I when I when I was a kid, I got Tourette's syndrome and Tourette's syndrome and Tourette's syndrome and obsessivempulsive disorder. Those people obsessivempulsive disorder. Those people obsessivempulsive disorder. Those people who've listened to your pod and heard me who've listened to your pod and heard me who've listened to your pod and heard me on here know that and I've talked about on here know that and I've talked about on here know that and I've talked about that before. that before. that before. >> Yeah. And that's a real thing. That's >> Yeah. And that's a real thing. That's >> Yeah. And that's a real thing. That's not like an act. No, I hope it's not. not like an act. No, I hope it's not. not like an act. No, I hope it's not. >> No, but sometimes people discount that. >> No, but sometimes people discount that. >> No, but sometimes people discount that. I I I disguised my you know, I I I I I disguised my you know, I I I I I disguised my you know, I I diagnosed myself. You did not diagnose diagnosed myself. You did not diagnose diagnosed myself. You did not diagnose yourself. yourself. yourself. >> Yeah. Yeah. I just want people to know >> Yeah. Yeah. I just want people to know >> Yeah. Yeah. I just want people to know >> by the time I'm twitching around and >> by the time I'm twitching around and >> by the time I'm twitching around and making noises, I I couldn't diagnose making noises, I I couldn't diagnose making noises, I I couldn't diagnose myself. Um but but um but you know, God myself. Um but but um but you know, God myself. Um but but um but you know, God I've often said my you know, when I was I've often said my you know, when I was I've often said my you know, when I was a kid growing up and I was going through a kid growing up and I was going through a kid growing up and I was going through all these crazy things, you go like, why all these crazy things, you go like, why all these crazy things, you go like, why would God ever allow this to happen in would God ever allow this to happen in would God ever allow this to happen in my life? And then you grow up and you my life? And then you grow up and you my life? And then you grow up and you realize you're on a stage in front of realize you're on a stage in front of realize you're on a stage in front of thousands of people and you're literally thousands of people and you're literally thousands of people and you're literally symbolically giving them permission to symbolically giving them permission to symbolically giving them permission to be messed up and broken and imperfect be messed up and broken and imperfect be messed up and broken and imperfect themsel every week. and and God has used themsel every week. and and God has used themsel every week. and and God has used that almost as um it's almost like my that almost as um it's almost like my that almost as um it's almost like my superpower. It's like it's like any any superpower. It's like it's like any any superpower. It's like it's like any any kind of pride or ego or anything like kind of pride or ego or anything like kind of pride or ego or anything like that that people would sniff out in that that people would sniff out in that that people would sniff out in other people, other people, other people, >> it's not there as much because I'm I'm >> it's not there as much because I'm I'm >> it's not there as much because I'm I'm I'm my whole life is just one big limp I'm my whole life is just one big limp I'm my whole life is just one big limp of like I'm look at me. I mean I there's of like I'm look at me. I mean I there's of like I'm look at me. I mean I there's nothing there can't be an ego here cuz nothing there can't be an ego here cuz nothing there can't be an ego here cuz I'm a goof. Like who you know whatever.

I'm a goof. Like who you know whatever. I'm a goof. Like who you know whatever. It's like the minute you begin to feel It's like the minute you begin to feel It's like the minute you begin to feel cool you're like all right well that's cool you're like all right well that's cool you're like all right well that's that's out the window. So people then that's out the window. So people then that's out the window. So people then and as I've as I've talked about that or and as I've as I've talked about that or and as I've as I've talked about that or just even just even just even >> just even personified it in people's >> just even personified it in people's >> just even personified it in people's lives. People have felt the craziest lives. People have felt the craziest lives. People have felt the craziest permission of just like I can't believe permission of just like I can't believe permission of just like I can't believe you think like that. I think that too. you think like that. I think that too. you think like that. I think that too. And I never told anybody that I used to And I never told anybody that I used to And I never told anybody that I used to knock on things a certain amount of knock on things a certain amount of knock on things a certain amount of times and then if I didn't knock on that times and then if I didn't knock on that times and then if I didn't knock on that and fold the laundry perfectly then the and fold the laundry perfectly then the and fold the laundry perfectly then the plane would crash. And so I had to do plane would crash. And so I had to do plane would crash. And so I had to do this and I had to do that. And I thought this and I had to do that. And I thought this and I had to do that. And I thought like that too and I never told anybody. like that too and I never told anybody. like that too and I never told anybody. and now I've heard you say it for 20 and now I've heard you say it for 20 and now I've heard you say it for 20 years. I'm free. And it's like what? years. I'm free. And it's like what? years. I'm free. And it's like what? Like crazy that God there's a reason he Like crazy that God there's a reason he Like crazy that God there's a reason he didn't like fully heal me. It was almost didn't like fully heal me. It was almost didn't like fully heal me. It was almost like he left some of that in me to give like he left some of that in me to give like he left some of that in me to give the people permission that I'm in front the people permission that I'm in front the people permission that I'm in front of. And so all that I'm saying is people of. And so all that I'm saying is people of. And so all that I'm saying is people working on their preaching. It's like working on their preaching. It's like working on their preaching. It's like what is that thing you you did a a what is that thing you you did a a what is that thing you you did a a brilliant thing in the in the course on brilliant thing in the in the course on brilliant thing in the in the course on the kinds of the kinds of limbs to share the kinds of the kinds of limbs to share the kinds of the kinds of limbs to share and and when it's overshared. Talk about and and when it's overshared. Talk about and and when it's overshared. Talk about that. That was great.

that. That was great. that. That was great. >> Yeah. Yeah. I' I've thought about that a >> Yeah. Yeah. I' I've thought about that a >> Yeah. Yeah. I' I've thought about that a lot because we've all been through the lot because we've all been through the lot because we've all been through the ringer, right? And I've had moments, ringer, right? And I've had moments, ringer, right? And I've had moments, seasons of my life that are not good. seasons of my life that are not good. seasons of my life that are not good. And when it comes to vulnerability, like And when it comes to vulnerability, like And when it comes to vulnerability, like how vulnerable should you be from the how vulnerable should you be from the how vulnerable should you be from the stage? I think of wound, scab, scar. So, stage? I think of wound, scab, scar. So, stage? I think of wound, scab, scar. So, you know, we've all got scars. We were you know, we've all got scars. We were you know, we've all got scars. We were kids. It's like, yeah, this is when I kids. It's like, yeah, this is when I kids. It's like, yeah, this is when I fell and hit my head on the table or, fell and hit my head on the table or, fell and hit my head on the table or, you know, this is I actually crashed my you know, this is I actually crashed my you know, this is I actually crashed my bike. My right knee now has a really bike. My right knee now has a really bike. My right knee now has a really nice scar on it from a couple years ago nice scar on it from a couple years ago nice scar on it from a couple years ago when got some nice road rash, that kind when got some nice road rash, that kind when got some nice road rash, that kind of thing. So, a scar is healed over. A of thing. So, a scar is healed over. A of thing. So, a scar is healed over. A scar is something that you can talk scar is something that you can talk scar is something that you can talk about saying I had a bike crash but I've about saying I had a bike crash but I've about saying I had a bike crash but I've recovered from it right and then a scab recovered from it right and then a scab recovered from it right and then a scab is yeah I got a wound it's healing and is yeah I got a wound it's healing and is yeah I got a wound it's healing and then um a wound is no this is gaping and then um a wound is no this is gaping and then um a wound is no this is gaping and we may have to go to ER so I think we may have to go to ER so I think we may have to go to ER so I think wounds don't talk about your wounds on wounds don't talk about your wounds on wounds don't talk about your wounds on stage because you don't know how to be stage because you don't know how to be stage because you don't know how to be helpful like you're on the way in an helpful like you're on the way in an helpful like you're on the way in an ambulance to the hospital that's where ambulance to the hospital that's where ambulance to the hospital that's where your counselor that's for your inner your counselor that's for your inner your counselor that's for your inner circle that's where people like hey circle that's where people like hey circle that's where people like hey we're in a crisis right now in my we're in a crisis right now in my we're in a crisis right now in my probably don't want to lead with that on probably don't want to lead with that on probably don't want to lead with that on a Sunday morning. You might even want to a Sunday morning. You might even want to a Sunday morning. You might even want to take the Sunday off. But if it becomes take the Sunday off. But if it becomes take the Sunday off. But if it becomes um a scab and it's healing over and you um a scab and it's healing over and you um a scab and it's healing over and you can tell it's getting better, then I can tell it's getting better, then I can tell it's getting better, then I think you can start to share it. It's think you can start to share it. It's think you can start to share it. It's fresh. So not all your stories are from fresh. So not all your stories are from fresh. So not all your stories are from 20 25 years ago.

20 25 years ago. 20 25 years ago. >> So that's a that's when I was in high >> So that's a that's when I was in high >> So that's a that's when I was in high school. school. school. >> When I was in high school Yeah. Exactly. >> When I was in high school Yeah. Exactly. >> When I was in high school Yeah. Exactly. You know, in the 19th century when I was You know, in the 19th century when I was You know, in the 19th century when I was in high school in high school in high school >> when I led that guy to Christ that time. >> when I led that guy to Christ that time. >> when I led that guy to Christ that time. >> Exactly. That one time. We want recent >> Exactly. That one time. We want recent >> Exactly. That one time. We want recent stories, but for vulnerability, it stories, but for vulnerability, it stories, but for vulnerability, it should at least be um a scab. And and I should at least be um a scab. And and I should at least be um a scab. And and I think like I burned out a number of think like I burned out a number of think like I burned out a number of years ago. Yeah. Or or a scar. So there years ago. Yeah. Or or a scar. So there years ago. Yeah. Or or a scar. So there was a time when my burnout, which was a time when my burnout, which was a time when my burnout, which happened in 2006, happened in 2006, happened in 2006, >> it was a gaping wound for a couple >> it was a gaping wound for a couple >> it was a gaping wound for a couple years. years. years. >> Couldn't talk about it. I tried to talk >> Couldn't talk about it. I tried to talk >> Couldn't talk about it. I tried to talk about it. I thought it was a scab, but about it. I thought it was a scab, but about it. I thought it was a scab, but it turned out to be a wound. it turned out to be a wound. it turned out to be a wound. >> And I remember when I finished teaching >> And I remember when I finished teaching >> And I remember when I finished teaching about it for the first time, I've now about it for the first time, I've now about it for the first time, I've now written books. I've spoken to tens of written books. I've spoken to tens of written books. I've spoken to tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of thousands, hundreds of thousands of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people about it. etc., etc. It's a scar, people about it. etc., etc. It's a scar, people about it. etc., etc. It's a scar, right? But I went too early on it. I right? But I went too early on it. I right? But I went too early on it. I remember the lead pastor was at the back remember the lead pastor was at the back remember the lead pastor was at the back of the room. I was in Philly and he came of the room. I was in Philly and he came of the room. I was in Philly and he came up and he goes, "Are you okay? Do you up and he goes, "Are you okay? Do you up and he goes, "Are you okay? Do you need counseling?" And I'm like, "Ooh, need counseling?" And I'm like, "Ooh, need counseling?" And I'm like, "Ooh, that's still a wound. That's not a that's still a wound. That's not a that's still a wound. That's not a scab." scab." scab." >> And so, a great principle. That's a >> And so, a great principle. That's a >> And so, a great principle. That's a genius principle. genius principle. genius principle. >> And you know, you know it's a scab when >> And you know, you know it's a scab when >> And you know, you know it's a scab when you can help people.

you can help people. you can help people. >> It's like, you know what? This thing's >> It's like, you know what? This thing's >> It's like, you know what? This thing's still healing, still healing, still healing, >> but don't put your hand on the on the on >> but don't put your hand on the on the on >> but don't put your hand on the on the on the stove, okay? You're going to burn the stove, okay? You're going to burn the stove, okay? You're going to burn it. Like, it hurts. But if you're like it. Like, it hurts. But if you're like it. Like, it hurts. But if you're like screaming like a am I am I going to have screaming like a am I am I going to have screaming like a am I am I going to have to go to the hospital, you probably go to go to the hospital, you probably go to go to the hospital, you probably go go get that treated and then when it go get that treated and then when it go get that treated and then when it scabs over and you can be helpful. The scabs over and you can be helpful. The scabs over and you can be helpful. The other thing about introductions I think other thing about introductions I think other thing about introductions I think cuz one of the things you have and this cuz one of the things you have and this cuz one of the things you have and this is what I like about the course and is what I like about the course and is what I like about the course and friendship friendship friendship >> is you know you're so charismatic. You >> is you know you're so charismatic. You >> is you know you're so charismatic. You got the RZ as your daughters would say, got the RZ as your daughters would say, got the RZ as your daughters would say, right? No, you do. No, that your right? No, you do. No, that your right? No, you do. No, that your daughters would not say that. But daughters would not say that. But daughters would not say that. But >> dad, >> dad, >> dad, but anyway, you know, you're very but anyway, you know, you're very but anyway, you know, you're very charismatic. You're a great storyteller. charismatic. You're a great storyteller. charismatic. You're a great storyteller. You're funny. I'm kind of the bullet You're funny. I'm kind of the bullet You're funny. I'm kind of the bullet point guy, right? I'm logical. That's point guy, right? I'm logical. That's point guy, right? I'm logical. That's what I do. what I do. what I do. >> In your in my own kind of way. Very >> In your in my own kind of way. Very >> In your in my own kind of way. Very funny. funny. funny. >> And I find there's three hooks at the >> And I find there's three hooks at the >> And I find there's three hooks at the beginning of a message. And if I'm on my beginning of a message. And if I'm on my beginning of a message. And if I'm on my game, this is what I do. game, this is what I do. game, this is what I do. >> Ask a question. >> Ask a question. >> Ask a question. >> Start with a story >> Start with a story >> Start with a story >> or start with a fact or what we call in >> or start with a fact or what we call in >> or start with a fact or what we call in the course a bottom line. Yeah. the course a bottom line. Yeah. the course a bottom line. Yeah. >> Right. So I might say you start with a >> Right. So I might say you start with a >> Right. So I might say you start with a question. It would be like, do you ever question. It would be like, do you ever question. It would be like, do you ever worry about money at night? You know, worry about money at night? You know, worry about money at night? You know, when was the last time you stayed up at when was the last time you stayed up at when was the last time you stayed up at night? And what do you want to do with night? And what do you want to do with night? And what do you want to do with that question? you want to get something that question? you want to get something that question? you want to get something or like um you know how many of you or like um you know how many of you or like um you know how many of you fought on the way to church today?

fought on the way to church today? fought on the way to church today? >> No show of hands. Okay. All right. >> No show of hands. Okay. All right. >> No show of hands. Okay. All right. Yeah. Bunch of liars. Bunch of liars. Yeah. Bunch of liars. Bunch of liars. Yeah. Bunch of liars. Bunch of liars. Right. So Right. So Right. So >> immediately you've got a felt need >> immediately you've got a felt need >> immediately you've got a felt need >> and you got a question and everyone's >> and you got a question and everyone's >> and you got a question and everyone's engaged because people are like yes or engaged because people are like yes or engaged because people are like yes or no. Right. And most people are like yeah no. Right. And most people are like yeah no. Right. And most people are like yeah we've we've fought on the way to church we've we've fought on the way to church we've we've fought on the way to church before or whatever. So that's the power before or whatever. So that's the power before or whatever. So that's the power of an opening question. the power of a of an opening question. the power of a of an opening question. the power of a story like you could open up with the story like you could open up with the story like you could open up with the target story and that's just interesting target story and that's just interesting target story and that's just interesting because it's a story and people want to because it's a story and people want to because it's a story and people want to know well what's happening where does it know well what's happening where does it know well what's happening where does it go and then the other thing is a bottom go and then the other thing is a bottom go and then the other thing is a bottom line line line >> so you might start by saying fixing your >> so you might start by saying fixing your >> so you might start by saying fixing your mind on Christ fixes your mind mind on Christ fixes your mind mind on Christ fixes your mind >> it's like well that you know I worked >> it's like well that you know I worked >> it's like well that you know I worked for hours and hours and hours that's for hours and hours and hours that's for hours and hours and hours that's what the message is about what the message is about what the message is about >> but if you ever find your mind is broken >> but if you ever find your mind is broken >> but if you ever find your mind is broken where it's not working you know you got where it's not working you know you got where it's not working you know you got a war going on in your mind fixing your a war going on in your mind fixing your a war going on in your mind fixing your mind on Christ fixes your mind. Or mind on Christ fixes your mind. Or mind on Christ fixes your mind. Or >> you know what's true? >> you know what's true? >> you know what's true? >> Come on. >> Come on. >> Come on. >> You know what's true? Your boldest >> You know what's true? Your boldest >> You know what's true? Your boldest moments are your best moments and you moments are your best moments and you moments are your best moments and you can open up with that. Now, I've done a can open up with that. Now, I've done a can open up with that. Now, I've done a lot of work to get there. So, it's sort lot of work to get there. So, it's sort lot of work to get there. So, it's sort of deductive rather than inductive.

of deductive rather than inductive. of deductive rather than inductive. Inductive, you're kind of leading people Inductive, you're kind of leading people Inductive, you're kind of leading people down a path. Deductive, you say down a path. Deductive, you say down a path. Deductive, you say something that's true, but it's a lot something that's true, but it's a lot something that's true, but it's a lot better than, "Hey, did you see the game better than, "Hey, did you see the game better than, "Hey, did you see the game last night?" Or, "Nice day. You know, last night?" Or, "Nice day. You know, last night?" Or, "Nice day. You know, it's sunny. It's going to get warm it's sunny. It's going to get warm it's sunny. It's going to get warm today." today." today." >> We got the kids camp coming up there. >> We got the kids camp coming up there. >> We got the kids camp coming up there. >> Kids camp coming up. cuz you've just >> Kids camp coming up. cuz you've just >> Kids camp coming up. cuz you've just blown that real estate. And secondly, blown that real estate. And secondly, blown that real estate. And secondly, your message is probably posted online. your message is probably posted online. your message is probably posted online. Somebody's going to watch it 6 months Somebody's going to watch it 6 months Somebody's going to watch it 6 months from now and it's going to be what game, from now and it's going to be what game, from now and it's going to be what game, what year, what? Wait, it's snowing. what year, what? Wait, it's snowing. what year, what? Wait, it's snowing. It's not nice and sunny, right? So, It's not nice and sunny, right? So, It's not nice and sunny, right? So, you've got that. So, that's a way to do you've got that. So, that's a way to do you've got that. So, that's a way to do it. Okay. it. Okay. it. Okay. >> I uh I I I recently like to this point >> I uh I I I recently like to this point >> I uh I I I recently like to this point about starting, I came out of the gate, about starting, I came out of the gate, about starting, I came out of the gate, told a story about garbage bins like told a story about garbage bins like told a story about garbage bins like within the first within the first 15 within the first within the first 15 within the first within the first 15 seconds, I was into it, showing a seconds, I was into it, showing a seconds, I was into it, showing a failure for my life or Yeah. failure for my life or Yeah. failure for my life or Yeah. >> Um started with a story a couple months >> Um started with a story a couple months >> Um started with a story a couple months ago. walked out and I just uh I said, ago. walked out and I just uh I said, ago. walked out and I just uh I said, "Hey, welcome to church. I'm Mark, one "Hey, welcome to church. I'm Mark, one "Hey, welcome to church. I'm Mark, one of the pastors around here." So, when I of the pastors around here." So, when I of the pastors around here." So, when I was 20 years old, I worked at Michael's was 20 years old, I worked at Michael's was 20 years old, I worked at Michael's Arts and Crafts store and uh you know, Arts and Crafts store and uh you know, Arts and Crafts store and uh you know, 685 an hour, big red big red apron, had 685 an hour, big red big red apron, had 685 an hour, big red big red apron, had my name on it. Still couldn't tell you my name on it. Still couldn't tell you my name on it. Still couldn't tell you where a googly eye goes for the life of where a googly eye goes for the life of where a googly eye goes for the life of me. No idea. And uh and I'm sitting in me. No idea. And uh and I'm sitting in me. No idea. And uh and I'm sitting in the aisle and I just become a Christian the aisle and I just become a Christian the aisle and I just become a Christian and this girl in a in a wheelchair came and this girl in a in a wheelchair came and this girl in a in a wheelchair came by with her mom and they're sitting by with her mom and they're sitting by with her mom and they're sitting there looking at stuff and I looked at there looking at stuff and I looked at there looking at stuff and I looked at her and I hear God say to me something her and I hear God say to me something her and I hear God say to me something very clear. I want you to walk up to her very clear. I want you to walk up to her very clear. I want you to walk up to her and tell her in the name of Christ, I and tell her in the name of Christ, I and tell her in the name of Christ, I want you to get up off that wheelchair.

want you to get up off that wheelchair. want you to get up off that wheelchair. And so I say to myself, there's no way And so I say to myself, there's no way And so I say to myself, there's no way I'm gonna do that. And God says, you're I'm gonna do that. And God says, you're I'm gonna do that. And God says, you're gonna disobey me. You're not going to go gonna disobey me. You're not going to go gonna disobey me. You're not going to go over there and tell her I'm going to over there and tell her I'm going to over there and tell her I'm going to heal her right now. And I walk up to heal her right now. And I walk up to heal her right now. And I walk up to this girl. I'm sweating bullets. And she this girl. I'm sweating bullets. And she this girl. I'm sweating bullets. And she looks up at me from the wheelchair. And looks up at me from the wheelchair. And looks up at me from the wheelchair. And I look down at her. I look down at her. I look down at her. Anyway, we'll come back to that. I want Anyway, we'll come back to that. I want Anyway, we'll come back to that. I want you to open up your Bibles to Romans you to open up your Bibles to Romans you to open up your Bibles to Romans chapter 6. And here's what we're going chapter 6. And here's what we're going chapter 6. And here's what we're going to do. Now, here's what I did. I to do. Now, here's what I did. I to do. Now, here's what I did. I preached the whole everybody, preached the whole everybody, preached the whole everybody, >> right? And it's a true story. And I >> right? And it's a true story. And I >> right? And it's a true story. And I preached a whole 35minut sermon. The preached a whole 35minut sermon. The preached a whole 35minut sermon. The problem was, no joke, at the end of the problem was, no joke, at the end of the problem was, no joke, at the end of the sermon, I prayed like I normally do. sermon, I prayed like I normally do. sermon, I prayed like I normally do. Anda, Amen. And I walked off the stage. Anda, Amen. And I walked off the stage. Anda, Amen. And I walked off the stage. >> You didn't resolve it. And people start >> You didn't resolve it. And people start >> You didn't resolve it. And people start screaming from the audience. screaming from the audience. screaming from the audience. >> What happened? What happened? That's all >> What happened? What happened? That's all >> What happened? What happened? That's all they cared. They didn't hear a word I they cared. They didn't hear a word I they cared. They didn't hear a word I said for 35 seconds. All they cared said for 35 seconds. All they cared said for 35 seconds. All they cared about was that. about was that. about was that. >> Isn't that crazy? >> Isn't that crazy? >> Isn't that crazy? >> So that's what you shouldn't do. >> So that's what you shouldn't do. >> So that's what you shouldn't do. >> You got to come back at the end. >> You got to come back at the end. >> You got to come back at the end. >> You got to come back to it. But it's a >> You got to come back to it. But it's a >> You got to come back to it. But it's a good inclusio. If you book it to leave good inclusio. If you book it to leave good inclusio. If you book it to leave the church just to find out what the church just to find out what the church just to find out what happened. happened. happened. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> This is a really tough question to >> This is a really tough question to >> This is a really tough question to answer, but I want to ask it anyway. answer, but I want to ask it anyway. answer, but I want to ask it anyway. What makes a sermon memorable?

What makes a sermon memorable? What makes a sermon memorable? >> You tell so many stories that people >> You tell so many stories that people >> You tell so many stories that people might remember the story, but they might remember the story, but they might remember the story, but they forget the point. forget the point. forget the point. >> Right. That's true. It's an occupational >> Right. That's true. It's an occupational >> Right. That's true. It's an occupational hazard. I tell so many points that they hazard. I tell so many points that they hazard. I tell so many points that they people forget the story. Okay. So, we people forget the story. Okay. So, we people forget the story. Okay. So, we come at it from different perspectives. come at it from different perspectives. come at it from different perspectives. >> That's amazing. >> That's amazing. >> That's amazing. >> You know, for me, where I come from, and >> You know, for me, where I come from, and >> You know, for me, where I come from, and I'm blown away by this, so I'll give you I'm blown away by this, so I'll give you I'm blown away by this, so I'll give you a story. Last summer I was at a surf a story. Last summer I was at a surf a story. Last summer I was at a surf shop uh 15 minutes from my house. shop uh 15 minutes from my house. shop uh 15 minutes from my house. Running into this guy, you know, when Running into this guy, you know, when Running into this guy, you know, when you've led a church for a long time, you've led a church for a long time, you've led a church for a long time, people look vaguely familiar. And he people look vaguely familiar. And he people look vaguely familiar. And he says to me, he says, "Carrie," and I'm says to me, he says, "Carrie," and I'm says to me, he says, "Carrie," and I'm trying to place him. And then I'm like, trying to place him. And then I'm like, trying to place him. And then I'm like, "Okay, I think you're so and so's "Okay, I think you're so and so's "Okay, I think you're so and so's brother-in-law." Yeah, I got it. And and brother-in-law." Yeah, I got it. And and brother-in-law." Yeah, I got it. And and he says to me, "Your series 180." Oh my he says to me, "Your series 180." Oh my he says to me, "Your series 180." Oh my goodness. He pulls out his keys. He goodness. He pulls out his keys. He goodness. He pulls out his keys. He still, we gave out a keychain, like a still, we gave out a keychain, like a still, we gave out a keychain, like a key tag key tag key tag >> from that series called 180. It was >> from that series called 180. It was >> from that series called 180. It was about turning your life around 180. He about turning your life around 180. He about turning your life around 180. He goes, I still carry it on my key ring. goes, I still carry it on my key ring. goes, I still carry it on my key ring. >> I was blown away. >> I was blown away. >> I was blown away. >> So cool. >> So cool. >> So cool. >> And he goes, "That was so good." And he >> And he goes, "That was so good." And he >> And he goes, "That was so good." And he started telling me some of the things I started telling me some of the things I started telling me some of the things I taught taught taught >> in that series. And then uh you know, he >> in that series. And then uh you know, he >> in that series. And then uh you know, he goes, "Is there any way I can get the goes, "Is there any way I can get the goes, "Is there any way I can get the message for that?" I'm like, "Dude, that message for that?" I'm like, "Dude, that message for that?" I'm like, "Dude, that was not quite pre- internet, but that was not quite pre- internet, but that was not quite pre- internet, but that was like that was a long time ago. I was like that was a long time ago. I was like that was a long time ago. I don't know where that stuff lives. It's don't know where that stuff lives. It's don't know where that stuff lives. It's not on YouTube." So, you know, I hit up not on YouTube." So, you know, I hit up not on YouTube." So, you know, I hit up our service programming department. We our service programming department. We our service programming department. We found it. I went back and looked at the found it. I went back and looked at the found it. I went back and looked at the date on that series. It was 2010.

date on that series. It was 2010. date on that series. It was 2010. >> 15 years ago. >> 15 years ago. >> 15 years ago. >> He's carrying around something. So, what >> He's carrying around something. So, what >> He's carrying around something. So, what was that? I'd gotten into the phase was that? I'd gotten into the phase was that? I'd gotten into the phase where I worked really, really hard on a where I worked really, really hard on a where I worked really, really hard on a bottom line. bottom line. bottom line. >> And he was remembering things I said 15 >> And he was remembering things I said 15 >> And he was remembering things I said 15 years ago. For example, I did around years ago. For example, I did around years ago. For example, I did around that time I did a series on um love. And that time I did a series on um love. And that time I did a series on um love. And I was really trying to get to the bottom I was really trying to get to the bottom I was really trying to get to the bottom like what does Paul talk about when he like what does Paul talk about when he like what does Paul talk about when he talks about love? Right? So in our talks about love? Right? So in our talks about love? Right? So in our culture we say I love a macchiato and culture we say I love a macchiato and culture we say I love a macchiato and then we say I love you too honey. Right? then we say I love you too honey. Right? then we say I love you too honey. Right? Like it's the same word for everything. Like it's the same word for everything. Like it's the same word for everything. Or I love that show. I love baseball. I Or I love that show. I love baseball. I Or I love that show. I love baseball. I love this. We love everything. love this. We love everything. love this. We love everything. >> I love plant. >> I love plant. >> I love plant. >> I love I love I love >> I love I love I love >> I love I love I love >> Thank you. Thank you, Brick. Anyway, so >> Thank you. Thank you, Brick. Anyway, so >> Thank you. Thank you, Brick. Anyway, so we say things like that, right? And and we say things like that, right? And and we say things like that, right? And and it and and in the Greek it's more it and and in the Greek it's more it and and in the Greek it's more nuanced, right? So what do you do? And I nuanced, right? So what do you do? And I nuanced, right? So what do you do? And I thought, you know, and I had this idea, thought, you know, and I had this idea, thought, you know, and I had this idea, and people have quoted this back to me and people have quoted this back to me and people have quoted this back to me years later, over a decade later. It's years later, over a decade later. It's years later, over a decade later. It's like, uh, like is an emotion. Love is a like, uh, like is an emotion. Love is a like, uh, like is an emotion. Love is a decision. decision. decision. >> Because I kind of explained that >> Because I kind of explained that >> Because I kind of explained that biblically, you know, there's a biblically, you know, there's a biblically, you know, there's a difference between like and love. We difference between like and love. We difference between like and love. We just have one word that covers the whole just have one word that covers the whole just have one word that covers the whole thing.

thing. thing. >> And like is an emotion. So you're like, >> And like is an emotion. So you're like, >> And like is an emotion. So you're like, well, I don't like you anymore. I don't well, I don't like you anymore. I don't well, I don't like you anymore. I don't like this. I used to like pasta. I don't like this. I used to like pasta. I don't like this. I used to like pasta. I don't eat pasta anymore. I don't like it eat pasta anymore. I don't like it eat pasta anymore. I don't like it anymore. I don't like That's not what anymore. I don't like That's not what anymore. I don't like That's not what love is. Love is not an emotion. Love is love is. Love is not an emotion. Love is love is. Love is not an emotion. Love is a decision. Yeah. a decision. Yeah. a decision. Yeah. >> Love is a decision. So when you're like, >> Love is a decision. So when you're like, >> Love is a decision. So when you're like, I don't I'm not in love anymore. It's I don't I'm not in love anymore. It's I don't I'm not in love anymore. It's like, wait, you're talking about liking like, wait, you're talking about liking like, wait, you're talking about liking somebody, you're not talking about somebody, you're not talking about somebody, you're not talking about loving somebody biblically. Love is a loving somebody biblically. Love is a loving somebody biblically. Love is a decision. So, you know, six simple decision. So, you know, six simple decision. So, you know, six simple words, like is an emotion. Love is a words, like is an emotion. Love is a words, like is an emotion. Love is a decision decision decision >> that can live. So, I think that's one of >> that can live. So, I think that's one of >> that can live. So, I think that's one of the ways to make it memorable. That's the ways to make it memorable. That's the ways to make it memorable. That's probably my best thing I bring to the probably my best thing I bring to the probably my best thing I bring to the table to make complicated issues simple table to make complicated issues simple table to make complicated issues simple in a few words. But you are a genius in a few words. But you are a genius in a few words. But you are a genius storyteller and you come up with all storyteller and you come up with all storyteller and you come up with all kinds of funny stories that literally kinds of funny stories that literally kinds of funny stories that literally have people like when we announce you at have people like when we announce you at have people like when we announce you at our church that you're coming to people our church that you're coming to people our church that you're coming to people are like yeah they announce me at our are like yeah they announce me at our are like yeah they announce me at our church they're like who who huh huh that church they're like who who huh huh that church they're like who who huh huh that guy is he back that's your funny that's guy is he back that's your funny that's guy is he back that's your funny that's you being funny like you have this dry you being funny like you have this dry you being funny like you have this dry self-deprecating it's so great anyway so self-deprecating it's so great anyway so self-deprecating it's so great anyway so um so so I agree with everything you um so so I agree with everything you um so so I agree with everything you just said so I won't reiterate the same just said so I won't reiterate the same just said so I won't reiterate the same point do all that memorable bottom lines point do all that memorable bottom lines point do all that memorable bottom lines memorable sentences I I told you one memorable sentences I I told you one memorable sentences I I told you one over dinner last night that I heard from over dinner last night that I heard from over dinner last night that I heard from another guy. Um, another guy. Um, another guy. Um, >> which you're going to write a book on >> which you're going to write a book on >> which you're going to write a book on one day.

one day. one day. >> Probably write a book on it one day. So >> Probably write a book on it one day. So >> Probably write a book on it one day. So hopefully don't steal it. But hopefully don't steal it. But hopefully don't steal it. But >> yeah, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> um, the line is, "When you're born, you >> um, the line is, "When you're born, you >> um, the line is, "When you're born, you look like your parents. When you die, look like your parents. When you die, look like your parents. When you die, you look like your decisions." you look like your decisions." you look like your decisions." >> Such a great line. >> Such a great line. >> Such a great line. >> Every time I say that, I give it a beat >> Every time I say that, I give it a beat >> Every time I say that, I give it a beat and the audience goes, "Wa!" Right. and the audience goes, "Wa!" Right. and the audience goes, "Wa!" Right. >> At dinner last night. >> At dinner last night. >> At dinner last night. >> Yeah, dinner. >> Yeah, dinner. >> Yeah, dinner. >> There were five of us. I knew it. And we >> There were five of us. I knew it. And we >> There were five of us. I knew it. And we hadn't heard it and we all paused. It hadn't heard it and we all paused. It hadn't heard it and we all paused. It was my wife, Jeff and Lesley Brody, my was my wife, Jeff and Lesley Brody, my was my wife, Jeff and Lesley Brody, my pastors, and we were all like, "Woo!" pastors, and we were all like, "Woo!" pastors, and we were all like, "Woo!" >> Right. And that's what happens in the >> Right. And that's what happens in the >> Right. And that's what happens in the audience every time. I'll do it at Kexus audience every time. I'll do it at Kexus audience every time. I'll do it at Kexus when I'm there next and Oh, good. Watch when I'm there next and Oh, good. Watch when I'm there next and Oh, good. Watch what happens. So, so um so I but so I what happens. So, so um so I but so I what happens. So, so um so I but so I all of that is true. all of that is true. all of that is true. >> I think the other thing that's true >> I think the other thing that's true >> I think the other thing that's true though, and this is a little bit more um though, and this is a little bit more um though, and this is a little bit more um maybe less tangible, but it's it shows maybe less tangible, but it's it shows maybe less tangible, but it's it shows our different styles. Um our different styles. Um our different styles. Um have you seen Inception? have you seen Inception? have you seen Inception? >> The movie Inception. Christopher Nolan >> The movie Inception. Christopher Nolan >> The movie Inception. Christopher Nolan movie. I feel like I have. movie. I feel like I have. movie. I feel like I have. >> Have you seen Interstellar? >> Have you seen Interstellar? >> Have you seen Interstellar? >> No. >> No. >> No. >> Christopher Nolan movie. Okay. >> Christopher Nolan movie. Okay. >> Christopher Nolan movie. Okay. Terrible example. Terrible example. Terrible example. >> I know you love. >> I know you love. >> I know you love. >> No. No. Okay. Shank Redemption. Okay. >> No. No. Okay. Shank Redemption. Okay. >> No. No. Okay. Shank Redemption. Okay. I've seen that twice. Okay. Twice. What I've seen that twice. Okay. Twice. What I've seen that twice. Okay. Twice. What do you mean? I've seen it twice this do you mean? I've seen it twice this do you mean? I've seen it twice this month.

month. month. >> I know. >> I know. >> I know. >> What do you mean? Okay. You're not. >> What do you mean? Okay. You're not. >> What do you mean? Okay. You're not. >> Next question. >> Next question. >> Next question. >> Okay. So, Mark, >> Okay. So, Mark, >> Okay. So, Mark, >> here's the point. >> here's the point. >> here's the point. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> If I asked you, do you do you do you >> If I asked you, do you do you do you >> If I asked you, do you do you do you really connect to Shasha Redemption? really connect to Shasha Redemption? really connect to Shasha Redemption? Like, yes. It's like for most people. Like, yes. It's like for most people. Like, yes. It's like for most people. >> Well, you would say it's the best movie >> Well, you would say it's the best movie >> Well, you would say it's the best movie ever made. ever made. ever made. >> Yes. So, the Godfather, Interstellar, >> Yes. So, the Godfather, Interstellar, >> Yes. So, the Godfather, Interstellar, Inception. When you talk to these Inception. When you talk to these Inception. When you talk to these people, if I was to say to someone people, if I was to say to someone people, if I was to say to someone inception, "Oh, he changed my life. He's inception, "Oh, he changed my life. He's inception, "Oh, he changed my life. He's great." Okay, great. So, so let me ask great." Okay, great. So, so let me ask great." Okay, great. So, so let me ask you a question. What is the character? you a question. What is the character? you a question. What is the character? What is the main character's name? What is the main character's name? What is the main character's name? >> They wouldn't know. >> They wouldn't know. >> They wouldn't know. >> Yeah. Well, good. I'm in company with >> Yeah. Well, good. I'm in company with >> Yeah. Well, good. I'm in company with them. them. them. >> Why? Because what they're saying is how >> Why? Because what they're saying is how >> Why? Because what they're saying is how it made them feel. it made them feel. it made them feel. >> Yes. Yeah. >> Yes. Yeah. >> Yes. Yeah. >> That's the thing. >> That's the thing. >> That's the thing. >> You know, it's funny. I remember being >> You know, it's funny. I remember being >> You know, it's funny. I remember being like 12 years old and there was a like 12 years old and there was a like 12 years old and there was a preacher. It was a church basement kind preacher. It was a church basement kind preacher. It was a church basement kind of night. He's like, "Do you want to of night. He's like, "Do you want to of night. He's like, "Do you want to give your life to Christ?" I gave my give your life to Christ?" I gave my give your life to Christ?" I gave my life to Christ so many times as a life to Christ so many times as a life to Christ so many times as a teenager. I'm good for life. Like it was teenager. I'm good for life. Like it was teenager. I'm good for life. Like it was every time I sinned, it's like I'm a every time I sinned, it's like I'm a every time I sinned, it's like I'm a Christian again. But I remember and I Christian again. But I remember and I Christian again. But I remember and I don't remember who the preacher was and don't remember who the preacher was and don't remember who the preacher was and I don't remember what the message was, I don't remember what the message was, I don't remember what the message was, but I remember how I felt, but I remember how I felt, but I remember how I felt, >> right?

>> right? >> right? >> And often times the communicator is >> And often times the communicator is >> And often times the communicator is creating a feel for people where they creating a feel for people where they creating a feel for people where they leave with an impression. And so if you leave with an impression. And so if you leave with an impression. And so if you go out, one of the one of the critiques, go out, one of the one of the critiques, go out, one of the one of the critiques, if I was to critique myself, if you were if I was to critique myself, if you were if I was to critique myself, if you were to go out to a lunch table after one of to go out to a lunch table after one of to go out to a lunch table after one of my sermons, okay, and you had seven my sermons, okay, and you had seven my sermons, okay, and you had seven people from our church sitting around people from our church sitting around people from our church sitting around the lunch table and you said, "Hey, how the lunch table and you said, "Hey, how the lunch table and you said, "Hey, how was that sermon?" They'd be like, "Oh my was that sermon?" They'd be like, "Oh my was that sermon?" They'd be like, "Oh my gosh, it was I want to I want to change, gosh, it was I want to I want to change, gosh, it was I want to I want to change, man. I want to that was amazing." And it man. I want to that was amazing." And it man. I want to that was amazing." And it just, oh my gosh. And then you say, just, oh my gosh. And then you say, just, oh my gosh. And then you say, "Okay, cool. What was it about?" "Okay, cool. What was it about?" "Okay, cool. What was it about?" I'm honestly not sure they could tell I'm honestly not sure they could tell I'm honestly not sure they could tell you. Mhm. you. Mhm. you. Mhm. >> They'd be like, "Well, at one point he >> They'd be like, "Well, at one point he >> They'd be like, "Well, at one point he was doing something about Target. Uh was doing something about Target. Uh was doing something about Target. Uh there was there was there was definitely there was there was there was definitely there was there was there was definitely some B I think it was a Are we in Axe some B I think it was a Are we in Axe some B I think it was a Are we in Axe right now, Joey?" You know, I think so. right now, Joey?" You know, I think so. right now, Joey?" You know, I think so. But they wouldn't have the memorable But they wouldn't have the memorable But they wouldn't have the memorable lines. They wouldn't have the pneummonic lines. They wouldn't have the pneummonic lines. They wouldn't have the pneummonic devices to to latch on to, devices to to latch on to, devices to to latch on to, >> but they would have the way it made them >> but they would have the way it made them >> but they would have the way it made them feel as an impression. Almost like what feel as an impression. Almost like what feel as an impression. Almost like what Jonathan Edwards said, preaching to the Jonathan Edwards said, preaching to the Jonathan Edwards said, preaching to the affections. You want to preach to the affections. You want to preach to the affections. You want to preach to the gut so you make them motivated to gut so you make them motivated to gut so you make them motivated to change. And that is a less tactical change. And that is a less tactical change. And that is a less tactical thing. It's just something you got to thing. It's just something you got to thing. It's just something you got to work on. And my point about the work on. And my point about the work on. And my point about the Christopher Nolan thing is Christopher Christopher Nolan thing is Christopher Christopher Nolan thing is Christopher Nolan basically says, "Look, um, the Nolan basically says, "Look, um, the Nolan basically says, "Look, um, the last 20 minutes of a movie don't even last 20 minutes of a movie don't even last 20 minutes of a movie don't even really need a script. You just need the really need a script. You just need the really need a script. You just need the right music, momentum, cinematography, right music, momentum, cinematography, right music, momentum, cinematography, and story." And then you end it and and story." And then you end it and and story." And then you end it and people leave and they go, I don't even people leave and they go, I don't even people leave and they go, I don't even know if there was like if you watch the know if there was like if you watch the know if there was like if you watch the last 20 minutes of the Dark Knight, the last 20 minutes of the Dark Knight, the last 20 minutes of the Dark Knight, the last 20 minutes of something. It could

last 20 minutes of something. It could last 20 minutes of something. It could it could be without a script. Dunkirk, it could be without a script. Dunkirk, it could be without a script. Dunkirk, none of these movies need even talking none of these movies need even talking none of these movies need even talking for the last 20 minutes because you're for the last 20 minutes because you're for the last 20 minutes because you're just being carried with the scoreoom just being carried with the scoreoom just being carried with the scoreoom and things are happening and you and and things are happening and you and and things are happening and you and then and then the credits come up. then and then the credits come up. then and then the credits come up. You're like, "Oh my gosh, I want to You're like, "Oh my gosh, I want to You're like, "Oh my gosh, I want to watch that again." But you don't even watch that again." But you don't even watch that again." But you don't even know what they said for the last 20 know what they said for the last 20 know what they said for the last 20 minutes. I think there's power in that. minutes. I think there's power in that. minutes. I think there's power in that. Yeah. Yeah, there's how you make the Yeah. Yeah, there's how you make the Yeah. Yeah, there's how you make the room and the individual feel is almost room and the individual feel is almost room and the individual feel is almost just as important as what you're saying just as important as what you're saying just as important as what you're saying in making them feel that thing. in making them feel that thing. in making them feel that thing. >> So, how do you do that? >> So, how do you do that? >> So, how do you do that? >> Well, I that's that's a probably a >> Well, I that's that's a probably a >> Well, I that's that's a probably a course. course. course. We should probably do a course. Wait a We should probably do a course. Wait a We should probably do a course. Wait a minute. We did a course minute. We did a course minute. We did a course preaching. Go check it out. Yeah. No, preaching. Go check it out. Yeah. No, preaching. Go check it out. Yeah. No, but you know, you're very good at that. but you know, you're very good at that. but you know, you're very good at that. >> Yeah. But I I think there's a certain EQ >> Yeah. But I I think there's a certain EQ >> Yeah. But I I think there's a certain EQ that you have to have. There's a certain that you have to have. There's a certain that you have to have. There's a certain ability to feel the room and where it ability to feel the room and where it ability to feel the room and where it needs to go. needs to go. needs to go. >> Okay. I'm I'm losing the left side of >> Okay. I'm I'm losing the left side of >> Okay. I'm I'm losing the left side of the room right now. the room right now. the room right now. >> And you do you have >> And you do you have >> And you do you have >> lights up enough to know that? >> lights up enough to know that? >> lights up enough to know that? >> Uh >> Uh >> Uh >> I do. I insist that the house lights are >> I do. I insist that the house lights are >> I do. I insist that the house lights are up.

up. up. >> People, but I don't I don't like blaze. >> People, but I don't I don't like blaze. >> People, but I don't I don't like blaze. >> No, no, no. But you want to be able cuz >> No, no, no. But you want to be able cuz >> No, no, no. But you want to be able cuz you've spoken into those black tents you've spoken into those black tents you've spoken into those black tents where you know you can't see a thing. I where you know you can't see a thing. I where you know you can't see a thing. I like to see the audience because you can like to see the audience because you can like to see the audience because you can see what the Holy Spirit is doing see what the Holy Spirit is doing see what the Holy Spirit is doing because in your head you've got how the because in your head you've got how the because in your head you've got how the message is going to go before you message is going to go before you message is going to go before you deliver it. And then you deliver it and deliver it. And then you deliver it and deliver it. And then you deliver it and it's like, well, this is a piece of it's like, well, this is a piece of it's like, well, this is a piece of lead. This is not going anywhere. And lead. This is not going anywhere. And lead. This is not going anywhere. And then and then you're like, oo, but this then and then you're like, oo, but this then and then you're like, oo, but this is really resonating. And you see people is really resonating. And you see people is really resonating. And you see people leaning forward. You see a few tears. leaning forward. You see a few tears. leaning forward. You see a few tears. You see I'll give you an example. I was You see I'll give you an example. I was You see I'll give you an example. I was preaching on um AI, which by the way, preaching on um AI, which by the way, preaching on um AI, which by the way, never announce that you're preaching on never announce that you're preaching on never announce that you're preaching on AI. Everybody stays home. Okay. So, I AI. Everybody stays home. Okay. So, I AI. Everybody stays home. Okay. So, I was preaching on AI Silicon Valley, was preaching on AI Silicon Valley, was preaching on AI Silicon Valley, though. though. though. >> Unless >> Unless >> Unless Well, if you're north of Toronto, do not Well, if you're north of Toronto, do not Well, if you're north of Toronto, do not preach on AI. All right. Anyway, no, preach on AI. All right. Anyway, no, preach on AI. All right. Anyway, no, there were people at church running there were people at church running there were people at church running around the horses, around the horses, around the horses, >> the run of the litter, you know, in that >> the run of the litter, you know, in that >> the run of the litter, you know, in that series. So, I want to talk about AI series. So, I want to talk about AI series. So, I want to talk about AI relationships. You know, in the same way relationships. You know, in the same way relationships. You know, in the same way that like Jonathan Height and people are that like Jonathan Height and people are that like Jonathan Height and people are really concerned about what social media really concerned about what social media really concerned about what social media has done to our kids, I'm very concerned has done to our kids, I'm very concerned has done to our kids, I'm very concerned about what sexualized chat bots are about what sexualized chat bots are about what sexualized chat bots are going to do and chat bots are going to going to do and chat bots are going to going to do and chat bots are going to do to human relationships.

do to human relationships. do to human relationships. >> Very specific. >> Very specific. >> Very specific. >> There's very specific sexual example of >> There's very specific sexual example of >> There's very specific sexual example of what you shouldn't do in your preaching. what you shouldn't do in your preaching. what you shouldn't do in your preaching. All right, we're good and bad examples. All right, we're good and bad examples. All right, we're good and bad examples. Sex Box. Sex Box. Sex Box. >> It was really in the Bible >> It was really in the Bible >> It was really in the Bible >> by Carrie New. >> by Carrie New. >> by Carrie New. >> It's a big thing and it is like it is >> It's a big thing and it is like it is >> It's a big thing and it is like it is like 30% of men have some kind of sexual like 30% of men have some kind of sexual like 30% of men have some kind of sexual relationship with a chatbot right now relationship with a chatbot right now relationship with a chatbot right now that they create. Yeah. No, this nuts. that they create. Yeah. No, this nuts. that they create. Yeah. No, this nuts. This is flying under the radar, dude. This is flying under the radar, dude. This is flying under the radar, dude. Under the radar. With a chatbot. Yeah. Under the radar. With a chatbot. Yeah. Under the radar. With a chatbot. Yeah. You can go to sites. Listen, I explained You can go to sites. Listen, I explained You can go to sites. Listen, I explained it. Nobody was listening. I don't know it. Nobody was listening. I don't know it. Nobody was listening. I don't know where you find it. where you find it. where you find it. >> Nobody was listening. >> Nobody was listening. >> Nobody was listening. >> Come on. Okay. Go ahead. >> Come on. Okay. Go ahead. >> Come on. Okay. Go ahead. >> I don't have one. Okay. I don't care. >> I don't have one. Okay. I don't care. >> I don't have one. Okay. I don't care. >> I don't. Yes. Okay, tell us more. That's >> I don't. Yes. Okay, tell us more. That's >> I don't. Yes. Okay, tell us more. That's a lot of knowledge. a lot of knowledge. a lot of knowledge. >> It's a lot of information, isn't it? No. >> It's a lot of information, isn't it? No. >> It's a lot of information, isn't it? No. So, I'm trying to explain like if this So, I'm trying to explain like if this So, I'm trying to explain like if this is what social media has done to us. is what social media has done to us. is what social media has done to us. >> You know what happens? Cuz you know I as >> You know what happens? Cuz you know I as >> You know what happens? Cuz you know I as a spouse, you don't always have a great a spouse, you don't always have a great a spouse, you don't always have a great day. You don't always say the right day. You don't always say the right day. You don't always say the right thing. I say the wrong thing on a thing. I say the wrong thing on a thing. I say the wrong thing on a regular basis to my wife. I'm like, I regular basis to my wife. I'm like, I regular basis to my wife. I'm like, I thought I was helping. I did not help. thought I was helping. I did not help. thought I was helping. I did not help. Right. Well, what happens when you have Right. Well, what happens when you have Right. Well, what happens when you have a relationship with a virtual a relationship with a virtual a relationship with a virtual >> bot, a girlfriend, and she always says >> bot, a girlfriend, and she always says >> bot, a girlfriend, and she always says the right thing and she's trained. She the right thing and she's trained. She the right thing and she's trained. She knows exactly what you need to hear.

knows exactly what you need to hear. knows exactly what you need to hear. It's like an earworm. And suddenly It's like an earworm. And suddenly It's like an earworm. And suddenly you're in this relationship and you know you're in this relationship and you know you're in this relationship and you know it's not as good. As I'm preaching this it's not as good. As I'm preaching this it's not as good. As I'm preaching this and I'm sharing the stats, I'm watching and I'm sharing the stats, I'm watching and I'm sharing the stats, I'm watching every woman in the congregation, you every woman in the congregation, you every woman in the congregation, you know, the four who showed up. No, we had know, the four who showed up. No, we had know, the four who showed up. No, we had we had a pretty full house. Every every we had a pretty full house. Every every we had a pretty full house. Every every woman in the congregation woman in the congregation woman in the congregation >> is doing this. >> They're they're talking about it. They >> They're they're talking about it. They want to know. They're they're they're want to know. They're they're they're want to know. They're they're they're horrified, disgusted, upset, horrified, disgusted, upset, horrified, disgusted, upset, angry, and every guy angry, and every guy angry, and every guy is doing this. is doing this. is doing this. >> Well, you think the guys in your >> Well, you think the guys in your >> Well, you think the guys in your congregation are having congregation are having congregation are having >> Well, I don't know if they have a porn >> Well, I don't know if they have a porn >> Well, I don't know if they have a porn habit, which like 90% of guys do, and habit, which like 90% of guys do, and habit, which like 90% of guys do, and this is the direction it's going. And I this is the direction it's going. And I this is the direction it's going. And I could I could you could cut the tension could I could you could cut the tension could I could you could cut the tension in the room in the room in the room >> with a knife. And so I slowed down. >> with a knife. And so I slowed down. >> with a knife. And so I slowed down. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I know there are people watching >> And I know there are people watching >> And I know there are people watching online. I slowed down and then I'm like, online. I slowed down and then I'm like, online. I slowed down and then I'm like, what do you what do you do with this what do you what do you do with this what do you what do you do with this moment? And in that moment, because you moment? And in that moment, because you moment? And in that moment, because you prep it, you got all your stats, you got prep it, you got all your stats, you got prep it, you got all your stats, you got the screenshots, you know, appropriate the screenshots, you know, appropriate the screenshots, you know, appropriate PG-13 screenshots, all this stuff. You PG-13 screenshots, all this stuff. You PG-13 screenshots, all this stuff. You got the data. And then you see what it's got the data. And then you see what it's got the data. And then you see what it's doing in the lives of people. That's doing in the lives of people. That's doing in the lives of people. That's preaching.

preaching. preaching. >> I'm like, now what do I do, God? And so >> I'm like, now what do I do, God? And so >> I'm like, now what do I do, God? And so the end of the sermon become much more the end of the sermon become much more the end of the sermon become much more pastoral, pastoral, pastoral, >> much more gentle, >> much more gentle, >> much more gentle, >> much more, hey, >> much more, hey, >> much more, hey, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> This is a moment and what does it mean >> This is a moment and what does it mean >> This is a moment and what does it mean to be human? to be human? to be human? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> In the age of AI. >> In the age of AI. >> In the age of AI. >> And so that kind of feedback is so >> And so that kind of feedback is so >> And so that kind of feedback is so important. And you can't get that important. And you can't get that important. And you can't get that >> when you're I don't care whether you >> when you're I don't care whether you >> when you're I don't care whether you spend 30 hours a week prepping a spend 30 hours a week prepping a spend 30 hours a week prepping a message, you're not going to know until message, you're not going to know until message, you're not going to know until it lands. And that's when you slow down. it lands. And that's when you slow down. it lands. And that's when you slow down. That's when you change tone. That's when you change tone. That's when you change tone. >> And that's when you never title >> And that's when you never title >> And that's when you never title something about AI in a sermon again. something about AI in a sermon again. something about AI in a sermon again. You just you say you're preaching about You just you say you're preaching about You just you say you're preaching about something else and then you just something else and then you just something else and then you just >> That's right. You just slide it in. >> That's right. You just slide it in. >> That's right. You just slide it in. >> This morning we're going to do AI >> This morning we're going to do AI >> This morning we're going to do AI >> aliens. >> aliens. >> aliens. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You did a series on aliens. >> You did a series on aliens. >> You did a series on aliens. >> I did. Not a whole series, but a sermon. >> I did. Not a whole series, but a sermon. >> I did. Not a whole series, but a sermon. Yeah. Yeah, it's true. Yeah. Yeah, it's true. Yeah. Yeah, it's true. >> All right. Um, anything else about >> All right. Um, anything else about >> All right. Um, anything else about making a sermon memorable? I think making a sermon memorable? I think making a sermon memorable? I think that's that's great. Um, that's that's great. Um, that's that's great. Um, >> so >> so >> so there are myths out there and some there are myths out there and some there are myths out there and some people would say clear preaching is people would say clear preaching is people would say clear preaching is watered down preaching. Do you have any watered down preaching. Do you have any watered down preaching. Do you have any thoughts on that clarity? Because you thoughts on that clarity? Because you thoughts on that clarity? Because you know the thing under that is I you know know the thing under that is I you know know the thing under that is I you know this has been a pet peeve of mine so you this has been a pet peeve of mine so you this has been a pet peeve of mine so you know loaded question mark but when know loaded question mark but when know loaded question mark but when people go to a church and they hear 40 people go to a church and they hear 40 people go to a church and they hear 40 minutes of things they don't understand minutes of things they don't understand minutes of things they don't understand a word. It was like you know the Greek a word. It was like you know the Greek a word. It was like you know the Greek exesus of this and that and the other exesus of this and that and the other exesus of this and that and the other thing and they're like well I didn't thing and they're like well I didn't thing and they're like well I didn't understand it but it was deep. It was understand it but it was deep. It was understand it but it was deep. It was deep. Now you know I come from a tribe deep. Now you know I come from a tribe deep. Now you know I come from a tribe where things are clear. I work really where things are clear. I work really where things are clear. I work really hard on clarity and one of the hard on clarity and one of the hard on clarity and one of the criticisms I've gotten is that clarity criticisms I've gotten is that clarity criticisms I've gotten is that clarity is watered down preaching.

is watered down preaching. is watered down preaching. >> I don't buy it. What do you think about >> I don't buy it. What do you think about >> I don't buy it. What do you think about clarity and depth? clarity and depth? clarity and depth? >> Well, I I read the sermons of Jesus >> Well, I I read the sermons of Jesus >> Well, I I read the sermons of Jesus >> and they're pretty clear. >> and they're pretty clear. >> and they're pretty clear. >> You know, if you hate your brother, >> You know, if you hate your brother, >> You know, if you hate your brother, you're guilty of murder. You know, if you're guilty of murder. You know, if you're guilty of murder. You know, if someone t if someone put slaps you on someone t if someone put slaps you on someone t if someone put slaps you on the one cheek, turn to them the other. I the one cheek, turn to them the other. I the one cheek, turn to them the other. I mean, these aren't these aren't mean, these aren't these aren't mean, these aren't these aren't clandestine or these aren't like clandestine or these aren't like clandestine or these aren't like confusing concepts. They're they're very confusing concepts. They're they're very confusing concepts. They're they're very clear. So, I think clarity, you know, clear. So, I think clarity, you know, clear. So, I think clarity, you know, Bnee Brown talks about clarity as Bnee Brown talks about clarity as Bnee Brown talks about clarity as kindness. kindness. kindness. >> Um, I think being kind is great. Why >> Um, I think being kind is great. Why >> Um, I think being kind is great. Why would you want, you know, to to muddle would you want, you know, to to muddle would you want, you know, to to muddle something up and make it more something up and make it more something up and make it more complicated than it needs to be is complicated than it needs to be is complicated than it needs to be is silly? I look at my, you know, my own silly? I look at my, you know, my own silly? I look at my, you know, my own friends and family growing up weren't friends and family growing up weren't friends and family growing up weren't Christians. And where how are they going Christians. And where how are they going Christians. And where how are they going to come to Christ? They walk into a to come to Christ? They walk into a to come to Christ? They walk into a church and we're talking our own church and we're talking our own church and we're talking our own language, our own psycho babble, our language, our own psycho babble, our language, our own psycho babble, our own, you know, oh, welcome to our own, you know, oh, welcome to our own, you know, oh, welcome to our fellowship. It's like, what is what is fellowship. It's like, what is what is fellowship. It's like, what is what is this Lord of the Rings, bro? What are we this Lord of the Rings, bro? What are we this Lord of the Rings, bro? What are we doing here? Like, what what are you even doing here? Like, what what are you even doing here? Like, what what are you even saying now? Here are the elders, saying now? Here are the elders, saying now? Here are the elders, you know, whatever. It's like, what is you know, whatever. It's like, what is you know, whatever. It's like, what is the Nazer walking out? So, it's like, the Nazer walking out? So, it's like, the Nazer walking out? So, it's like, >> you got to talk like a normal person.

>> you got to talk like a normal person. >> you got to talk like a normal person. Here's the pastors of the church. Here's the pastors of the church. Here's the pastors of the church. Welcome to the community. I'm glad Welcome to the community. I'm glad Welcome to the community. I'm glad you're here. You know, you're here. You know, you're here. You know, >> clarity is kindness. You know, the other >> clarity is kindness. You know, the other >> clarity is kindness. You know, the other thing I just thought about, um, you go thing I just thought about, um, you go thing I just thought about, um, you go to the US south, you go to a lot of the to the US south, you go to a lot of the to the US south, you go to a lot of the lakes, they're pretty muddy, right? You lakes, they're pretty muddy, right? You lakes, they're pretty muddy, right? You can't see the bottom. Here, we're can't see the bottom. Here, we're can't see the bottom. Here, we're shooting this in Toronto, Canada. You go shooting this in Toronto, Canada. You go shooting this in Toronto, Canada. You go to Lake Ontario, which is just south of to Lake Ontario, which is just south of to Lake Ontario, which is just south of us in the middle of summer, and the us in the middle of summer, and the us in the middle of summer, and the lakes here are very clear. You can see lakes here are very clear. You can see lakes here are very clear. You can see sometimes 50, 70 ft down. Clarity and sometimes 50, 70 ft down. Clarity and sometimes 50, 70 ft down. Clarity and depth. The depth. The depth. The >> seaweed clarity. No, there's a lot of >> seaweed clarity. No, there's a lot of >> seaweed clarity. No, there's a lot of seaweed down there. seaweed down there. seaweed down there. >> The zebra muscles took care of that. >> The zebra muscles took care of that. >> The zebra muscles took care of that. But, you know, I grew up on these lakes, But, you know, I grew up on these lakes, But, you know, I grew up on these lakes, too. But uh you know when we're boating too. But uh you know when we're boating too. But uh you know when we're boating out on Lake Simco, you can often see 50 out on Lake Simco, you can often see 50 out on Lake Simco, you can often see 50 75 ft down and the clarity allows you to 75 ft down and the clarity allows you to 75 ft down and the clarity allows you to see the depth. see the depth. see the depth. >> There you go. Mic drop. Mic drop. Let's >> There you go. Mic drop. Mic drop. Let's >> There you go. Mic drop. Mic drop. Let's move on. Next question. Okay, I agree. move on. Next question. Okay, I agree. move on. Next question. Okay, I agree. >> Uh vulnerable for a moment. Can you >> Uh vulnerable for a moment. Can you >> Uh vulnerable for a moment. Can you share a specific time when you share a specific time when you share a specific time when you completely missed the mark on a sermon? completely missed the mark on a sermon? completely missed the mark on a sermon? We kind of hinted at this, but I mean, We kind of hinted at this, but I mean, We kind of hinted at this, but I mean, we're not perfect. We make mistakes. we're not perfect. We make mistakes. we're not perfect. We make mistakes. >> Yeah. I uh Yeah. I mean, there's been so >> Yeah. I uh Yeah. I mean, there's been so >> Yeah. I uh Yeah. I mean, there's been so many times I've been up there and like many times I've been up there and like many times I've been up there and like I'm bored. I'm bored right now. What?

I'm bored. I'm bored right now. What? I'm bored. I'm bored right now. What? What is this? What am I doing up here? What is this? What am I doing up here? What is this? What am I doing up here? If I'm bored, they're bored. Why am I If I'm bored, they're bored. Why am I If I'm bored, they're bored. Why am I Why am I obsessed with this point I'm Why am I obsessed with this point I'm Why am I obsessed with this point I'm making? Like, just shift gears and get making? Like, just shift gears and get making? Like, just shift gears and get on with it. Um, anyway, I I did this on with it. Um, anyway, I I did this on with it. Um, anyway, I I did this fail. I spoke at this youth conference, fail. I spoke at this youth conference, fail. I spoke at this youth conference, which is a very humbling thing when you which is a very humbling thing when you which is a very humbling thing when you speak to youth because you speak to youth because you speak to youth because you >> they're merciless, >> they're merciless, >> they're merciless, >> right? And they don't like I'm I realize >> right? And they don't like I'm I realize >> right? And they don't like I'm I realize I'm a little dated, you know? I'm up I'm a little dated, you know? I'm up I'm a little dated, you know? I'm up there. I'm like, "No, in Forest Gump." there. I'm like, "No, in Forest Gump." there. I'm like, "No, in Forest Gump." And they're all like, "What the heck's a And they're all like, "What the heck's a And they're all like, "What the heck's a Forest Gump?" You know, and you're like, Forest Gump?" You know, and you're like, Forest Gump?" You know, and you're like, "Oh, shoot. I've never turned on TikTok. "Oh, shoot. I've never turned on TikTok. "Oh, shoot. I've never turned on TikTok. I don't even know what's going on. I don't even know what's going on. I don't even know what's going on. Right. Right. Right. >> So, >> So, >> So, >> but I was up preaching. I was making >> but I was up preaching. I was making >> but I was up preaching. I was making this point about So, I got my three this point about So, I got my three this point about So, I got my three daughters and we're walking through this daughters and we're walking through this daughters and we're walking through this forest forest forest >> and uh and we're, this was a few years >> and uh and we're, this was a few years >> and uh and we're, this was a few years ago, walking through a forest and uh ago, walking through a forest and uh ago, walking through a forest and uh we're just having, you know, a walk near we're just having, you know, a walk near we're just having, you know, a walk near my house and out of nowhere, I see this my house and out of nowhere, I see this my house and out of nowhere, I see this like 25year-old guy and he runs out of like 25year-old guy and he runs out of like 25year-old guy and he runs out of the trees and he's like and he's dressed the trees and he's like and he's dressed the trees and he's like and he's dressed up like an elf and he's and he goes by up like an elf and he's and he goes by up like an elf and he's and he goes by me. I'm like, "What is that?" And then me. I'm like, "What is that?" And then me. I'm like, "What is that?" And then four other dudes run out and they have four other dudes run out and they have four other dudes run out and they have arrows and they're like, "You have my arrows and they're like, "You have my arrows and they're like, "You have my magic crystals." And they're running magic crystals." And they're running magic crystals." And they're running around in a circle.

around in a circle. around in a circle. >> Is this for real? >> Is this for real? >> Is this for real? >> No. So listen. So I'm like, "What is >> No. So listen. So I'm like, "What is >> No. So listen. So I'm like, "What is happening?" And it's 20 of these people happening?" And it's 20 of these people happening?" And it's 20 of these people just running around saying, "Oh." And just running around saying, "Oh." And just running around saying, "Oh." And they're running up to us. You have my they're running up to us. You have my they're running up to us. You have my crystals. And I'm like, "What is crystals. And I'm like, "What is crystals. And I'm like, "What is happening?" So then I like, "Oh my gosh, happening?" So then I like, "Oh my gosh, happening?" So then I like, "Oh my gosh, we're in the middle of a shoot here. we're in the middle of a shoot here. we're in the middle of a shoot here. This is a movie. This is a TV show. This This is a movie. This is a TV show. This This is a movie. This is a TV show. This is a this is a project for college or is a this is a project for college or is a this is a project for college or something." So I said, "Oh, girls, come something." So I said, "Oh, girls, come something." So I said, "Oh, girls, come over here behind this tree and hide." over here behind this tree and hide." over here behind this tree and hide." And one of the guys with the swords And one of the guys with the swords And one of the guys with the swords walked up. He looked like Aragorn or walked up. He looked like Aragorn or walked up. He looked like Aragorn or something. I'm like, "What, dude? What's something. I'm like, "What, dude? What's something. I'm like, "What, dude? What's I'm sorry you could be in your movie I'm sorry you could be in your movie I'm sorry you could be in your movie shoot." And he's like, "No, this ain't a shoot." And he's like, "No, this ain't a shoot." And he's like, "No, this ain't a movie shoot. We're on an adventure." I'm movie shoot. We're on an adventure." I'm movie shoot. We're on an adventure." I'm like, "Well, no, I'm just sorry, you like, "Well, no, I'm just sorry, you like, "Well, no, I'm just sorry, you know, we got in a movie shoot." He's know, we got in a movie shoot." He's know, we got in a movie shoot." He's like, "No, there's no cameras here." I'm like, "No, there's no cameras here." I'm like, "No, there's no cameras here." I'm like, "What are you talking? What are like, "What are you talking? What are like, "What are you talking? What are you doing?" And then the guy's like, you doing?" And then the guy's like, you doing?" And then the guy's like, "We're laring." "We're laring." "We're laring." And I'm like, "What the heck's a And I'm like, "What the heck's a And I'm like, "What the heck's a laring?" And so I I get on my phone. I laring?" And so I I get on my phone. I laring?" And so I I get on my phone. I like Google laring LP and it's like Google laring LP and it's like Google laring LP and it's liveaction roleplay. These guys aren't liveaction roleplay. These guys aren't liveaction roleplay. These guys aren't filming anything. They're 24 year old filming anything. They're 24 year old filming anything. They're 24 year old dudes playing Wizards. dudes playing Wizards. dudes playing Wizards. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> And I looked at my daughters and I >> And I looked at my daughters and I >> And I looked at my daughters and I propped them aside and I looked, propped them aside and I looked, propped them aside and I looked, >> you're not getting married to these >> you're not getting married to these >> you're not getting married to these guys. guys. guys. >> And I said to them, you see all that?

>> And I said to them, you see all that? >> And I said to them, you see all that? Never marry that. Never marry that. Never marry that. So, so I tell that story at the So, so I tell that story at the So, so I tell that story at the beginning of this youth conference. beginning of this youth conference. beginning of this youth conference. Well, when I get to the part about never Well, when I get to the part about never Well, when I get to the part about never marry that, in every adult audience I've marry that, in every adult audience I've marry that, in every adult audience I've ever told that story, they die laughing. ever told that story, they die laughing. ever told that story, they die laughing. >> Right? >> Right? >> Right? >> This youth crowd, I went never marry >> This youth crowd, I went never marry >> This youth crowd, I went never marry that. And they were offended. It was that. And they were offended. It was that. And they were offended. It was like like like And I'm like, "What?" Because these And I'm like, "What?" Because these And I'm like, "What?" Because these morons are laring. And I'm like, "What morons are laring. And I'm like, "What morons are laring. And I'm like, "What is wrong with y'all?" I'm like, "How are is wrong with y'all?" I'm like, "How are is wrong with y'all?" I'm like, "How are you? How isn't this funny?" And to them, you? How isn't this funny?" And to them, you? How isn't this funny?" And to them, it's not funny because that's their it's not funny because that's their it's not funny because that's their world. They They actually respect these world. They They actually respect these world. They They actually respect these larers and these kids playing Dungeons larers and these kids playing Dungeons larers and these kids playing Dungeons and Dragons and whatever it is, right? and Dragons and whatever it is, right? and Dragons and whatever it is, right? And so I'm like, "Oh, snap. I'm making And so I'm like, "Oh, snap. I'm making And so I'm like, "Oh, snap. I'm making fun of them." And I've realized I this fun of them." And I've realized I this fun of them." And I've realized I this is a fail, man. like this is anyway. So is a fail, man. like this is anyway. So is a fail, man. like this is anyway. So >> no, you misread your audience. I misread >> no, you misread your audience. I misread >> no, you misread your audience. I misread my audience. Misread your audience out my audience. Misread your audience out my audience. Misread your audience out there saying you see girls marry those there saying you see girls marry those there saying you see girls marry those guys. Those are great wizards. guys. Those are great wizards. guys. Those are great wizards. >> I mean that then the crowd would be >> I mean that then the crowd would be >> I mean that then the crowd would be like, "Yeah, we love you. Preach the like, "Yeah, we love you. Preach the like, "Yeah, we love you. Preach the gospel."

gospel." gospel." >> So I I had a couple of big fails. One >> So I I had a couple of big fails. One >> So I I had a couple of big fails. One was very early on. I was at seminary and was very early on. I was at seminary and was very early on. I was at seminary and I didn't have a church yet. I was guest I didn't have a church yet. I was guest I didn't have a church yet. I was guest preaching in places and I had just read preaching in places and I had just read preaching in places and I had just read a book in seminary called Preaching and a book in seminary called Preaching and a book in seminary called Preaching and the Literary Forms of the Bible. And the the Literary Forms of the Bible. And the the Literary Forms of the Bible. And the argument of the book is, you know, if argument of the book is, you know, if argument of the book is, you know, if you're reading Proverbs, you need to be you're reading Proverbs, you need to be you're reading Proverbs, you need to be a sage. If you're reading the Gospels, a sage. If you're reading the Gospels, a sage. If you're reading the Gospels, you got to be narrative. If you're, you you got to be narrative. If you're, you you got to be narrative. If you're, you know, blah blah blah blah blah. And so I know, blah blah blah blah blah. And so I know, blah blah blah blah blah. And so I wanted to preach on Psalm 23. I'm like, wanted to preach on Psalm 23. I'm like, wanted to preach on Psalm 23. I'm like, well, that is a psalm. I have to be well, that is a psalm. I have to be well, that is a psalm. I have to be poetic. poetic. poetic. >> So I >> So I >> So I wrapped. Oh no. Oh no. Snap. Snap. That wrapped. Oh no. Oh no. Snap. Snap. That wrapped. Oh no. Oh no. Snap. Snap. That was that was like in 1996 was that was like in 1996 was that was like in 1996 or whatever. But I got I got up there or whatever. But I got I got up there or whatever. But I got I got up there and I started being poetic and like I'm and I started being poetic and like I'm and I started being poetic and like I'm five minutes into the sermon. I'm like, five minutes into the sermon. I'm like, five minutes into the sermon. I'm like, "This is flopping. This is flopping. "This is flopping. This is flopping. "This is flopping. This is flopping. This is flopping." This is flopping." This is flopping." >> Give us an example. >> Give us an example. >> Give us an example. >> I wish I I think I burned the notes, but >> I wish I I think I burned the notes, but >> I wish I I think I burned the notes, but it would have been, you know, me trying it would have been, you know, me trying it would have been, you know, me trying to be artistic. It would be like, "Oh, to be artistic. It would be like, "Oh, to be artistic. It would be like, "Oh, has the Lord ever felt like your has the Lord ever felt like your has the Lord ever felt like your shepherd? You shall not be in want." shepherd? You shall not be in want." shepherd? You shall not be in want." It's like, "Nobody talks like that. What It's like, "Nobody talks like that. What It's like, "Nobody talks like that. What is that? That's just kind of weird." And is that? That's just kind of weird." And is that? That's just kind of weird." And I'm like, "That was that was a dud."

I'm like, "That was that was a dud." I'm like, "That was that was a dud." >> So, that was that was a a terrible uh >> So, that was that was a a terrible uh >> So, that was that was a a terrible uh thing that I did. thing that I did. thing that I did. >> That that you you put that in the in the >> That that you you put that in the in the >> That that you you put that in the in the lake of forgetfulness. This sea of lake of forgetfulness. This sea of lake of forgetfulness. This sea of forgetfulness. Yeah. The other one I I I forgetfulness. Yeah. The other one I I I forgetfulness. Yeah. The other one I I I have done and this is more recent is have done and this is more recent is have done and this is more recent is when you're trying when you're trying when you're trying >> to be somebody you're not. So when I >> to be somebody you're not. So when I >> to be somebody you're not. So when I started, this wasn't so much preaching started, this wasn't so much preaching started, this wasn't so much preaching because you're in front of the same because you're in front of the same because you're in front of the same church, but when I started speaking at church, but when I started speaking at church, but when I started speaking at major conferences, and I'll be very major conferences, and I'll be very major conferences, and I'll be very specific. I remember um there was a specific. I remember um there was a specific. I remember um there was a season seven or eight years ago where I season seven or eight years ago where I season seven or eight years ago where I was speaking with John Akuff and Bob was speaking with John Akuff and Bob was speaking with John Akuff and Bob Goff and Carlos Whitaker. I mean, those Goff and Carlos Whitaker. I mean, those Goff and Carlos Whitaker. I mean, those are some of the best communicators in are some of the best communicators in are some of the best communicators in the church world. They're amazing. or the church world. They're amazing. or the church world. They're amazing. or when I'm a guy like you who's funny and when I'm a guy like you who's funny and when I'm a guy like you who's funny and telling stories and bringing the house telling stories and bringing the house telling stories and bringing the house down and that kind of thing and in the down and that kind of thing and in the down and that kind of thing and in the back of my mind I'm thinking why can't I back of my mind I'm thinking why can't I back of my mind I'm thinking why can't I be funny like John Akuff you know Bob be funny like John Akuff you know Bob be funny like John Akuff you know Bob Goff is negotiating world peace and I Goff is negotiating world peace and I Goff is negotiating world peace and I have to follow him I have to follow him have to follow him I have to follow him have to follow him I have to follow him >> you know and and I remember standing >> you know and and I remember standing >> you know and and I remember standing backstage side stage waiting to go on backstage side stage waiting to go on backstage side stage waiting to go on after Bob Goff before Carlos Whitaker after Bob Goff before Carlos Whitaker after Bob Goff before Carlos Whitaker who's always on some new adventure and who's always on some new adventure and who's always on some new adventure and his life is so interesting and it's you his life is so interesting and it's you his life is so interesting and it's you know he's like totally free form know he's like totally free form know he's like totally free form >> and in my head I'm saying I'm the bullet >> and in my head I'm saying I'm the bullet >> and in my head I'm saying I'm the bullet point guy I'm the bullet point guy. Like point guy I'm the bullet point guy. Like point guy I'm the bullet point guy. Like I'm the bullet point guy. All I am all I I'm the bullet point guy. All I am all I I'm the bullet point guy. All I am all I am is the bullet point guy.

am is the bullet point guy. am is the bullet point guy. >> And then it hit me in that moment. >> And then it hit me in that moment. >> And then it hit me in that moment. >> You're actually at this conference >> You're actually at this conference >> You're actually at this conference because you're the bulletoint guy. because you're the bulletoint guy. because you're the bulletoint guy. >> Yes. That's good. >> Yes. That's good. >> Yes. That's good. >> That you know Bob isn't Bob tried to be >> That you know Bob isn't Bob tried to be >> That you know Bob isn't Bob tried to be Bob Gooff tries to be the bullet point Bob Gooff tries to be the bullet point Bob Gooff tries to be the bullet point guy. guy. guy. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Is going to be a disaster. If John Auff >> Is going to be a disaster. If John Auff >> Is going to be a disaster. If John Auff tries not to be funny. If you try not to tries not to be funny. If you try not to tries not to be funny. If you try not to talk about your Tourette's and your OCD, talk about your Tourette's and your OCD, talk about your Tourette's and your OCD, you're not going to be Mark. But if I'm you're not going to be Mark. But if I'm you're not going to be Mark. But if I'm like, you know, I have asthma. Listen to like, you know, I have asthma. Listen to like, you know, I have asthma. Listen to my disease. Like it's not going to be my disease. Like it's not going to be my disease. Like it's not going to be it's not going to be funny. I do have I it's not going to be funny. I do have I it's not going to be funny. I do have I do have I grew up with asthma. I grew up do have I grew up with asthma. I grew up do have I grew up with asthma. I grew up with asthma. Where's my puffer? with asthma. Where's my puffer? with asthma. Where's my puffer? >> Where's my puffer? I actually do have >> Where's my puffer? I actually do have >> Where's my puffer? I actually do have asthma, but I never talk about it. It's asthma, but I never talk about it. It's asthma, but I never talk about it. It's not like Tourette's or OCD. So, I think not like Tourette's or OCD. So, I think not like Tourette's or OCD. So, I think the lesson there, you bomb. the lesson there, you bomb. the lesson there, you bomb. You can learn from other people, but you You can learn from other people, but you You can learn from other people, but you don't want to be other people. don't want to be other people. don't want to be other people. >> No, 100%. >> No, 100%. >> No, 100%. >> All right. Yeah. >> All right. Yeah. >> All right. Yeah. >> You and I have both had >> You and I have both had >> You and I have both had >> to be the bullet point guy. It would be >> to be the bullet point guy. It would be >> to be the bullet point guy. It would be a disaster. a disaster. a disaster. >> Well, you would be boring, you know. >> Well, you would be boring, you know. >> Well, you would be boring, you know. >> Yeah, 100%. You don't want to be boring. >> Yeah, 100%. You don't want to be boring. >> Yeah, 100%. You don't want to be boring. Anyway, based on what you've observed, Anyway, based on what you've observed, Anyway, based on what you've observed, what is the biggest mistake that people what is the biggest mistake that people what is the biggest mistake that people who try to speak to church people and who try to speak to church people and who try to speak to church people and unchurched people make? So, you're very unchurched people make? So, you're very unchurched people make? So, you're very fortunate throughout your ministry.

fortunate throughout your ministry. fortunate throughout your ministry. You've had You've had You've had >> hundreds, thousands of unchurched people >> hundreds, thousands of unchurched people >> hundreds, thousands of unchurched people in the room. I've been fortunate like in the room. I've been fortunate like in the room. I've been fortunate like over half of our new attenders are over half of our new attenders are over half of our new attenders are self-dagnosed unchurched. self-dagnosed unchurched. self-dagnosed unchurched. >> So, I mean, you're always trying to >> So, I mean, you're always trying to >> So, I mean, you're always trying to realize there's somebody new in the room realize there's somebody new in the room realize there's somebody new in the room every day. What are some common mistakes every day. What are some common mistakes every day. What are some common mistakes you see people make? Well, I think I you see people make? Well, I think I you see people make? Well, I think I mean this is the the be all end all mean this is the the be all end all mean this is the the be all end all answer, but it's like I think they answer, but it's like I think they answer, but it's like I think they choose a side, you know, they choose choose a side, you know, they choose choose a side, you know, they choose either I'm going to speak to churched either I'm going to speak to churched either I'm going to speak to churched people people people >> and really kill that because there's >> and really kill that because there's >> and really kill that because there's because there's a way to speak to church because there's a way to speak to church because there's a way to speak to church people which is addictive. It's very people which is addictive. It's very people which is addictive. It's very easy to throw red meat to life. easy to throw red meat to life. easy to throw red meat to life. >> There's phrases you know what to say. >> There's phrases you know what to say. >> There's phrases you know what to say. There's things you could say that that I There's things you could say that that I There's things you could say that that I know there's certain liberals know there's certain liberals know there's certain liberals and the people will get jacked up, and the people will get jacked up, and the people will get jacked up, right? right? right? Yeah, let's go, bro. Yeah, let's go, bro. Yeah, let's go, bro. Yeah. And and then and then so so just Yeah. And and then and then so so just Yeah. And and then and then so so just it's addictive to do that, you know. Um it's addictive to do that, you know. Um it's addictive to do that, you know. Um but or you just so so if you choose to but or you just so so if you choose to but or you just so so if you choose to just focus on church people, then you're just focus on church people, then you're just focus on church people, then you're going to be very theological and you're going to be very theological and you're going to be very theological and you're going to be very doctrinal and you're going to be very doctrinal and you're going to be very doctrinal and you're going to, you know, do all of that.

going to, you know, do all of that. going to, you know, do all of that. That's great. You'll grow deep in That's great. You'll grow deep in That's great. You'll grow deep in thinking and all that stuff. That's thinking and all that stuff. That's thinking and all that stuff. That's good. good. good. >> But the unchurched people will feel un >> But the unchurched people will feel un >> But the unchurched people will feel un they'll be like um they'll feel lost they'll be like um they'll feel lost they'll be like um they'll feel lost like we talked about earlier. They'll like we talked about earlier. They'll like we talked about earlier. They'll feel um uh unwelcome. uh lost, you know, feel um uh unwelcome. uh lost, you know, feel um uh unwelcome. uh lost, you know, all those things. all those things. all those things. >> Locked in on a family conversation >> Locked in on a family conversation >> Locked in on a family conversation there. I don't belong. there. I don't belong. there. I don't belong. >> Yeah. Exactly. Um on the flip side, if >> Yeah. Exactly. Um on the flip side, if >> Yeah. Exactly. Um on the flip side, if all you do is go unchurched, then you're all you do is go unchurched, then you're all you do is go unchurched, then you're not really doing disciplehip. You're you not really doing disciplehip. You're you not really doing disciplehip. You're you you you know, you might use a verse or you you know, you might use a verse or you you know, you might use a verse or something and then you go off on just something and then you go off on just something and then you go off on just some latest cultural trends or, you some latest cultural trends or, you some latest cultural trends or, you know, whatever, right? And what's know, whatever, right? And what's know, whatever, right? And what's happening there is you are lacking happening there is you are lacking happening there is you are lacking theological and doctrinal depth in the theological and doctrinal depth in the theological and doctrinal depth in the people because you're just speaking to people because you're just speaking to people because you're just speaking to them about whatever concept and you're them about whatever concept and you're them about whatever concept and you're and it can get gimmicky and it can get and it can get gimmicky and it can get and it can get gimmicky and it can get you know there's certain eras where you know there's certain eras where you know there's certain eras where certain things work certain areas where certain things work certain areas where certain things work certain areas where certain things work. You know us being certain things work. You know us being certain things work. You know us being from Canada it's very cool being down in from Canada it's very cool being down in from Canada it's very cool being down in the US and where they're like hey kind the US and where they're like hey kind the US and where they're like hey kind of show us like a posture because you of show us like a posture because you of show us like a posture because you already live in a very post-Christian already live in a very post-Christian already live in a very post-Christian culture. And I'm like, well, some of culture. And I'm like, well, some of culture. And I'm like, well, some of that stuff that we do here, it's it that stuff that we do here, it's it that stuff that we do here, it's it would never work up there. Like, it would never work up there. Like, it would never work up there. Like, it would never work in Canada for us to do would never work in Canada for us to do would never work in Canada for us to do some of these things that might work in some of these things that might work in some of these things that might work in the south. Yeah.

the south. Yeah. the south. Yeah. >> Right. They're gimmicky. They're, you >> Right. They're gimmicky. They're, you >> Right. They're gimmicky. They're, you know, whatever. But up here, there's a know, whatever. But up here, there's a know, whatever. But up here, there's a hermeneutic of suspicion. People are hermeneutic of suspicion. People are hermeneutic of suspicion. People are like, "Oh, that's churchy, gimmicky, like, "Oh, that's churchy, gimmicky, like, "Oh, that's churchy, gimmicky, silly." Right. And so, so you so you silly." Right. And so, so you so you silly." Right. And so, so you so you can't go if you go fully just to the can't go if you go fully just to the can't go if you go fully just to the unchurched person and you never talk unchurched person and you never talk unchurched person and you never talk about doctrine or theology or the Bible, about doctrine or theology or the Bible, about doctrine or theology or the Bible, then uh that's not going to be helpful then uh that's not going to be helpful then uh that's not going to be helpful at all and you're going to you're going at all and you're going to you're going at all and you're going to you're going to not do your job as a preacher, which to not do your job as a preacher, which to not do your job as a preacher, which is to expound the text, make it relevant is to expound the text, make it relevant is to expound the text, make it relevant in people's lives. But if you do the in people's lives. But if you do the in people's lives. But if you do the other So, I think that's one of it's other So, I think that's one of it's other So, I think that's one of it's it's the the the fail on both ends is it's the the the fail on both ends is it's the the the fail on both ends is you chose a side and you leaned into you chose a side and you leaned into you chose a side and you leaned into that and you only reached those people that and you only reached those people that and you only reached those people and you gathered those people. So, I and you gathered those people. So, I and you gathered those people. So, I think there's a way, and this is what we think there's a way, and this is what we think there's a way, and this is what we talk about in the art of preaching talk about in the art of preaching talk about in the art of preaching course. I think there's a way to do both course. I think there's a way to do both course. I think there's a way to do both of those things super well. To quote of those things super well. To quote of those things super well. To quote our, you know, patron saint Tim Keller, our, you know, patron saint Tim Keller, our, you know, patron saint Tim Keller, you have to every week preach to the you have to every week preach to the you have to every week preach to the older brother and the younger brother in older brother and the younger brother in older brother and the younger brother in the prodigal son story. Younger brother the prodigal son story. Younger brother the prodigal son story. Younger brother is the lost secular irreligious is the lost secular irreligious is the lost secular irreligious non-Christian who's spending his money non-Christian who's spending his money non-Christian who's spending his money on prostitutes and business and he's on prostitutes and business and he's on prostitutes and business and he's going broke and he's scared and he needs going broke and he's scared and he needs going broke and he's scared and he needs to repent. He needs to come to a place to repent. He needs to come to a place to repent. He needs to come to a place of repentance and come back to the of repentance and come back to the of repentance and come back to the father. And the older brother at the end father. And the older brother at the end father. And the older brother at the end of the story, which is the side we never of the story, which is the side we never of the story, which is the side we never preach, is outside having a party or preach, is outside having a party or preach, is outside having a party or he's outside of the party and he never he's outside of the party and he never he's outside of the party and he never comes into the kingdom at the end of the comes into the kingdom at the end of the comes into the kingdom at the end of the story because he's the religious brother story because he's the religious brother story because he's the religious brother who's gone to church his whole life. He who's gone to church his whole life. He who's gone to church his whole life. He always does his devos. He sings Hill always does his devos. He sings Hill always does his devos. He sings Hill song every day and he doesn't know the song every day and he doesn't know the song every day and he doesn't know the father and he because he doesn't repent.

father and he because he doesn't repent. father and he because he doesn't repent. He never becomes humble enough to come He never becomes humble enough to come He never becomes humble enough to come into the party. He's the lost one. And into the party. He's the lost one. And into the party. He's the lost one. And every week you're calling, you're saying every week you're calling, you're saying every week you're calling, you're saying both of those people are lost in their both of those people are lost in their both of those people are lost in their own way. There's two ways to be lost, own way. There's two ways to be lost, own way. There's two ways to be lost, not one. One in e- relligion and one in not one. One in e- relligion and one in not one. One in e- relligion and one in religion. Both of them have to repent religion. Both of them have to repent religion. Both of them have to repent and come to the father through Jesus and and come to the father through Jesus and and come to the father through Jesus and his sacrifice. And if you're doing that his sacrifice. And if you're doing that his sacrifice. And if you're doing that every week, I think both are going to every week, I think both are going to every week, I think both are going to show up. show up. show up. >> Yeah, I think you're right. I want to >> Yeah, I think you're right. I want to >> Yeah, I think you're right. I want to give props to where they're due to Tim give props to where they're due to Tim give props to where they're due to Tim Keller has been so influential. So is Keller has been so influential. So is Keller has been so influential. So is Andy Stanley. And I heard Andy say years Andy Stanley. And I heard Andy say years Andy Stanley. And I heard Andy say years ago, Andy said, "If you preach to ago, Andy said, "If you preach to ago, Andy said, "If you preach to people, you'll always have an audience." people, you'll always have an audience." people, you'll always have an audience." And if you think about that, you know, And if you think about that, you know, And if you think about that, you know, there was a time decades ago where it there was a time decades ago where it there was a time decades ago where it was seeker targeted or, you know, are was seeker targeted or, you know, are was seeker targeted or, you know, are you about believers or seekers and all you about believers or seekers and all you about believers or seekers and all that. And I think that was a false that. And I think that was a false that. And I think that was a false dichotomy. dichotomy. dichotomy. >> And uh I think the better part is to >> And uh I think the better part is to >> And uh I think the better part is to look at it. I'm preaching to people. And look at it. I'm preaching to people. And look at it. I'm preaching to people. And if you look at people, if you think, if you look at people, if you think, if you look at people, if you think, okay, people are my target. You have the okay, people are my target. You have the okay, people are my target. You have the older brother and the younger brother. older brother and the younger brother. older brother and the younger brother. Well, just because you're the older Well, just because you're the older Well, just because you're the older brother, does that mean you don't have brother, does that mean you don't have brother, does that mean you don't have any financial issues? Does that mean you any financial issues? Does that mean you any financial issues? Does that mean you don't have any marriage issues? Does don't have any marriage issues? Does don't have any marriage issues? Does that mean you don't struggle with envy that mean you don't struggle with envy that mean you don't struggle with envy or greed or resentment or anger or or greed or resentment or anger or or greed or resentment or anger or revenge or any of that stuff? No. You revenge or any of that stuff? No. You revenge or any of that stuff? No. You you have it. And as long as you're you have it. And as long as you're you have it. And as long as you're speaking to the needs that people have, speaking to the needs that people have, speaking to the needs that people have, like what they're doing. And the other like what they're doing. And the other like what they're doing. And the other thing, too, biblically, you might be thing, too, biblically, you might be thing, too, biblically, you might be like, "Well, we're a believer church and like, "Well, we're a believer church and like, "Well, we're a believer church and we have all these people who are we have all these people who are we have all these people who are biblically literate." Well, take them biblically literate." Well, take them biblically literate." Well, take them into the minor prophets and see how into the minor prophets and see how into the minor prophets and see how literate they really are, right? Do you literate they really are, right? Do you literate they really are, right? Do you really know what Nehemiah was doing?

really know what Nehemiah was doing? really know what Nehemiah was doing? What about Hosea? Right? Have you even What about Hosea? Right? Have you even What about Hosea? Right? Have you even have you read second Peter? Like, people have you read second Peter? Like, people have you read second Peter? Like, people would be like, "No, not really." So when would be like, "No, not really." So when would be like, "No, not really." So when you do, you know, to an all skate where you do, you know, to an all skate where you do, you know, to an all skate where you're like, "All right, so today we're you're like, "All right, so today we're you're like, "All right, so today we're going to be talking about King David. He going to be talking about King David. He going to be talking about King David. He lived about a thousand years before lived about a thousand years before lived about a thousand years before Jesus. Uh he was at the height of power. Jesus. Uh he was at the height of power. Jesus. Uh he was at the height of power. Uh Israel was an empire. And we find him Uh Israel was an empire. And we find him Uh Israel was an empire. And we find him at a place where he's on the palace roof at a place where he's on the palace roof at a place where he's on the palace roof and he's around 60 and he's wondering and he's around 60 and he's wondering and he's around 60 and he's wondering what to do with his time. What you did what to do with his time. What you did what to do with his time. What you did is you introduced unchurched people in is you introduced unchurched people in is you introduced unchurched people in what was that 20 seconds. Unchurched what was that 20 seconds. Unchurched what was that 20 seconds. Unchurched people know, okay, this is where it's people know, okay, this is where it's people know, okay, this is where it's situated. It's 3,000 years ago. Church situated. It's 3,000 years ago. Church situated. It's 3,000 years ago. Church people are like, "Oh, that's who David people are like, "Oh, that's who David people are like, "Oh, that's who David is." Thank you very much. is." Thank you very much. is." Thank you very much. >> Before Jesus, here's what I loved about >> Before Jesus, here's what I loved about >> Before Jesus, here's what I loved about what you just said. You modernized it what you just said. You modernized it what you just said. You modernized it all. You didn't say it was the second all. You didn't say it was the second all. You didn't say it was the second empire of Judah, you know, of the empire of Judah, you know, of the empire of Judah, you know, of the northern kingdom. You said it was a northern kingdom. You said it was a northern kingdom. You said it was a thousand years before Jesus. That helps thousand years before Jesus. That helps thousand years before Jesus. That helps them with history. He was 60 years old. them with history. He was 60 years old. them with history. He was 60 years old. That's perfect because now they're That's perfect because now they're That's perfect because now they're they're thinking of themsel they're thinking of themsel they're thinking of themsel >> who's 60 and their own struggles. And >> who's 60 and their own struggles. And >> who's 60 and their own struggles. And you know, that's beautiful. I love Yeah.

you know, that's beautiful. I love Yeah. you know, that's beautiful. I love Yeah. And that's like language. And your And that's like language. And your And that's like language. And your church people are now up to speed church people are now up to speed church people are now up to speed because somebody once when I was in because somebody once when I was in because somebody once when I was in seminary, I think it was a seminary seminary, I think it was a seminary seminary, I think it was a seminary prophet of mine said, "A lot of people prophet of mine said, "A lot of people prophet of mine said, "A lot of people who grew up in church, they know the Old who grew up in church, they know the Old who grew up in church, they know the Old Testament, but it's like a jigsaw Testament, but it's like a jigsaw Testament, but it's like a jigsaw puzzle. And somebody dropped the puzzle puzzle. And somebody dropped the puzzle puzzle. And somebody dropped the puzzle and all the pieces are all over the and all the pieces are all over the and all the pieces are all over the ground. And they don't know Noah, Moses, ground. And they don't know Noah, Moses, ground. And they don't know Noah, Moses, Daniel, Joseph, Deborah, like it's all Daniel, Joseph, Deborah, like it's all Daniel, Joseph, Deborah, like it's all mixed up. And one of your jobs is to mixed up. And one of your jobs is to mixed up. And one of your jobs is to help them over time put the puzzle back help them over time put the puzzle back help them over time put the puzzle back together again." But they don't know together again." But they don't know together again." But they don't know that even if you've been preaching for that even if you've been preaching for that even if you've been preaching for 20 years. Okay. We'll do a little bit of 20 years. Okay. We'll do a little bit of 20 years. Okay. We'll do a little bit of lightning round. Right. Yeah. lightning round. Right. Yeah. lightning round. Right. Yeah. >> The proverbial debate. How long should a >> The proverbial debate. How long should a >> The proverbial debate. How long should a message be? message be? message be? >> Martin. >> Martin. >> Martin. >> Yeah. I mean, I think >> Yeah. I mean, I think >> Yeah. I mean, I think >> 20 minutes, 60 minutes, 3 hours. >> 20 minutes, 60 minutes, 3 hours. >> 20 minutes, 60 minutes, 3 hours. >> Right in the middle there. Probably >> Right in the middle there. Probably >> Right in the middle there. Probably somewhere between 20 and 60 hours. somewhere between 20 and 60 hours. somewhere between 20 and 60 hours. >> Uh, no. I think >> Uh, no. I think >> Uh, no. I think >> No. How long should a message be? >> No. How long should a message be? >> No. How long should a message be? Because people argue that there are Because people argue that there are Because people argue that there are shrinking attention spans. Right. shrinking attention spans. Right. shrinking attention spans. Right. >> So, I would think if you're less than >> So, I would think if you're less than >> So, I would think if you're less than 30, I mean, I don't know. I I mean, you 30, I mean, I don't know. I I mean, you 30, I mean, I don't know. I I mean, you could be less than 30. That's fine. could be less than 30. That's fine. could be less than 30. That's fine. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I think somewhere between the 30 and 45 >> I think somewhere between the 30 and 45 >> I think somewhere between the 30 and 45 minute range. Um, if you're getting into minute range. Um, if you're getting into minute range. Um, if you're getting into 50 55 minutes, you better be great.

50 55 minutes, you better be great. 50 55 minutes, you better be great. Stellar, right? So, some of the things Stellar, right? So, some of the things Stellar, right? So, some of the things we talk about in the in the course is we talk about in the in the course is we talk about in the in the course is the whole Jim Collins, you know, um, the whole Jim Collins, you know, um, the whole Jim Collins, you know, um, principle of good to great. Like, the principle of good to great. Like, the principle of good to great. Like, the enemy of great is good. enemy of great is good. enemy of great is good. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And so, if you settle it good and you're >> And so, if you settle it good and you're >> And so, if you settle it good and you're like, well, I got 300 people in front of like, well, I got 300 people in front of like, well, I got 300 people in front of me and I'm preaching 55 minutes. Like, me and I'm preaching 55 minutes. Like, me and I'm preaching 55 minutes. Like, cool. Like, but could you have 600 cool. Like, but could you have 600 cool. Like, but could you have 600 people in front of you if you were people in front of you if you were people in front of you if you were preaching 35 minutes? because you're preaching 35 minutes? because you're preaching 35 minutes? because you're you're actually that 15 minutes is you're actually that 15 minutes is you're actually that 15 minutes is pretty rough, you know, whatever. So, pretty rough, you know, whatever. So, pretty rough, you know, whatever. So, it's like, do you have the ability to it's like, do you have the ability to it's like, do you have the ability to go, man, could I say this in 40 minutes? go, man, could I say this in 40 minutes? go, man, could I say this in 40 minutes? Could I you know, so I think somewhere Could I you know, so I think somewhere Could I you know, so I think somewhere in that 30 to 40 range is is a great in that 30 to 40 range is is a great in that 30 to 40 range is is a great place to try to put yourself. Um, but place to try to put yourself. Um, but place to try to put yourself. Um, but again, if you're super boring, 30 again, if you're super boring, 30 again, if you're super boring, 30 minutes is going to feel too long. minutes is going to feel too long. minutes is going to feel too long. >> And if you're great, 40 minutes is going >> And if you're great, 40 minutes is going >> And if you're great, 40 minutes is going to feel short, which maybe isn't that to feel short, which maybe isn't that to feel short, which maybe isn't that bad because it's not just one sermon. bad because it's not just one sermon. bad because it's not just one sermon. And it's it's a you have a you have a And it's it's a you have a you have a And it's it's a you have a you have a body of work body of work body of work >> that you're doing, right? It's not like >> that you're doing, right? It's not like >> that you're doing, right? It's not like you it's not like a movie where it's all you it's not like a movie where it's all you it's not like a movie where it's all got to fit in 90 minutes.

got to fit in 90 minutes. got to fit in 90 minutes. >> Bam. And then you get to come back next >> Bam. And then you get to come back next >> Bam. And then you get to come back next week. I mean week. I mean week. I mean >> I the older I got like when I was >> I the older I got like when I was >> I the older I got like when I was starting out in preaching, I felt like I starting out in preaching, I felt like I starting out in preaching, I felt like I had to preach Genesis to Revelation and had to preach Genesis to Revelation and had to preach Genesis to Revelation and every idea had to fit in, right? And and every idea had to fit in, right? And and every idea had to fit in, right? And and now what I realize when I have competing now what I realize when I have competing now what I realize when I have competing ideas or too many ideas, I'm just like, ideas or too many ideas, I'm just like, ideas or too many ideas, I'm just like, "Okay, that'll be for part four or I'm "Okay, that'll be for part four or I'm "Okay, that'll be for part four or I'm gonna park that on the side of the road gonna park that on the side of the road gonna park that on the side of the road and one day I'm going to pick it up and and one day I'm going to pick it up and and one day I'm going to pick it up and I'm going to use it in a future I'm going to use it in a future I'm going to use it in a future message." My take on on length is this message." My take on on length is this message." My take on on length is this is humbling. is humbling. is humbling. >> Preacher preachers are so insecure. >> Preacher preachers are so insecure. >> Preacher preachers are so insecure. >> On the one hand, we're like, "I suck. I >> On the one hand, we're like, "I suck. I >> On the one hand, we're like, "I suck. I shouldn't be doing this." On the other shouldn't be doing this." On the other shouldn't be doing this." On the other hand, we all kind of think that we're hand, we all kind of think that we're hand, we all kind of think that we're better than we really are. better than we really are. better than we really are. >> Yeah. People like both at the same time >> Yeah. People like both at the same time >> Yeah. People like both at the same time me talk. Yeah. That's what people think. me talk. Yeah. That's what people think. me talk. Yeah. That's what people think. >> I think we think we are better than we >> I think we think we are better than we >> I think we think we are better than we are. So I would probably because you are. So I would probably because you are. So I would probably because you know if you're listening to this know if you're listening to this know if you're listening to this watching this you're probably like well watching this you're probably like well watching this you're probably like well yeah I can hold court for 45 minutes for yeah I can hold court for 45 minutes for yeah I can hold court for 45 minutes for 55 minutes. 55 minutes. 55 minutes. >> Check that. Check that. And what I would >> Check that. Check that. And what I would >> Check that. Check that. And what I would find is you know 5 minutes of boring is find is you know 5 minutes of boring is find is you know 5 minutes of boring is 5 minutes too long. 60 minutes of 5 minutes too long. 60 minutes of 5 minutes too long. 60 minutes of fascinating is not fascinating enough. I fascinating is not fascinating enough. I fascinating is not fascinating enough. I don't preach for 60 minutes. I've don't preach for 60 minutes. I've don't preach for 60 minutes. I've actually whittleled back from 50 to actually whittleled back from 50 to actually whittleled back from 50 to about 35 to 38.

about 35 to 38. about 35 to 38. >> And what I want to do is it's kind of >> And what I want to do is it's kind of >> And what I want to do is it's kind of like, you know, there there are two like, you know, there there are two like, you know, there there are two kinds of preachers. The preacher who kinds of preachers. The preacher who kinds of preachers. The preacher who you're like, wow, you're done. That was you're like, wow, you're done. That was you're like, wow, you're done. That was fast. I want more. And then there's a fast. I want more. And then there's a fast. I want more. And then there's a preacher. It's like, you're not done preacher. It's like, you're not done preacher. It's like, you're not done yet. Oh, wait. There's more. Oh, come yet. Oh, wait. There's more. Oh, come yet. Oh, wait. There's more. Oh, come on. Come on. When is this going to be on. Come on. When is this going to be on. Come on. When is this going to be over? Right? You're looking at the over? Right? You're looking at the over? Right? You're looking at the clock. You're looking at your watch. You clock. You're looking at your watch. You clock. You're looking at your watch. You don't want to be the second preacher. I don't want to be the second preacher. I don't want to be the second preacher. I think you want to leave them wanting think you want to leave them wanting think you want to leave them wanting more. And you do have next Sunday and more. And you do have next Sunday and more. And you do have next Sunday and you have next month and you have the you have next month and you have the you have next month and you have the month after that. So what I would do is month after that. So what I would do is month after that. So what I would do is I would try to dial back your preaching I would try to dial back your preaching I would try to dial back your preaching by five minutes. So if you're a 45 by five minutes. So if you're a 45 by five minutes. So if you're a 45 minute preacher, try going 40. minute preacher, try going 40. minute preacher, try going 40. >> If you get a lot of people like >> If you get a lot of people like >> If you get a lot of people like complaining like we want more. complaining like we want more. complaining like we want more. >> Okay, maybe. And if your church is >> Okay, maybe. And if your church is >> Okay, maybe. And if your church is growing, growing, growing, >> if you're like you're packing it out and >> if you're like you're packing it out and >> if you're like you're packing it out and you're adding services, okay, then maybe you're adding services, okay, then maybe you're adding services, okay, then maybe you can be 45 minutes, but I think you can be 45 minutes, but I think you can be 45 minutes, but I think you've got to keep people engaged and you've got to keep people engaged and you've got to keep people engaged and you want to leave them wanting a little you want to leave them wanting a little you want to leave them wanting a little bit more. All right, bit more. All right, bit more. All right, >> great. >> great. >> great. >> AI. >> AI. >> AI. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> this is a very fresh topic. Two years >> this is a very fresh topic. Two years >> this is a very fresh topic. Two years ago, most people didn't even know what a ago, most people didn't even know what a ago, most people didn't even know what a I was. Now we're all using I was. Now we're all using I was. Now we're all using >> because I watched T2 Terminator 2 >> because I watched T2 Terminator 2 >> because I watched T2 Terminator 2 already told us what this.

already told us what this. already told us what this. >> So the robots have been writing your >> So the robots have been writing your >> So the robots have been writing your sermon for a long time. sermon for a long time. sermon for a long time. >> They already figured us out. They're >> They already figured us out. They're >> They already figured us out. They're going to kill us all. That's what's going to kill us all. That's what's going to kill us all. That's what's going to happen. That's the story. going to happen. That's the story. going to happen. That's the story. >> So now we have Claude, we have >> So now we have Claude, we have >> So now we have Claude, we have Perplexity, we've got notebook LM, we've Perplexity, we've got notebook LM, we've Perplexity, we've got notebook LM, we've got uh Chat GPT, and many others if got uh Chat GPT, and many others if got uh Chat GPT, and many others if you're watching this not in real time you're watching this not in real time you're watching this not in real time that are going to be invented. And the that are going to be invented. And the that are going to be invented. And the metaphor I have appreciated the most metaphor I have appreciated the most metaphor I have appreciated the most over the last couple years that I think over the last couple years that I think over the last couple years that I think about AI in it's from Seth Goden. And about AI in it's from Seth Goden. And about AI in it's from Seth Goden. And Seth Goden says AI is going to be like Seth Goden says AI is going to be like Seth Goden says AI is going to be like electricity. So you look at a podcast electricity. So you look at a podcast electricity. So you look at a podcast shoot like this or even how you're shoot like this or even how you're shoot like this or even how you're watching or listening this. What's that watching or listening this. What's that watching or listening this. What's that all powered by? Electricity. You got all powered by? Electricity. You got all powered by? Electricity. You got cameras, you got lights, you got mics, cameras, you got lights, you got mics, cameras, you got lights, you got mics, you got your phone, you've got your you got your phone, you've got your you got your phone, you've got your laptop, you got your desktop. That's how laptop, you got your desktop. That's how laptop, you got your desktop. That's how you're accessing this message. It's all you're accessing this message. It's all you're accessing this message. It's all electricity. and you didn't wake up electricity. and you didn't wake up electricity. and you didn't wake up today thinking about electricity. You're today thinking about electricity. You're today thinking about electricity. You're just like, "Yeah, it's just it's just like, "Yeah, it's just it's just like, "Yeah, it's just it's everywhere." everywhere." everywhere." >> And I think that's AI. But AI gives us >> And I think that's AI. But AI gives us >> And I think that's AI. But AI gives us something different. Like my light something different. Like my light something different. Like my light switch isn't going to write a message switch isn't going to write a message switch isn't going to write a message for me. But you can now even where AI is for me. But you can now even where AI is for me. But you can now even where AI is right now in 2025. You can say to it, right now in 2025. You can say to it, right now in 2025. You can say to it, "Write a sermon on, you know, XYZ topic "Write a sermon on, you know, XYZ topic "Write a sermon on, you know, XYZ topic in the style of Mark Driscoll or, you in the style of Mark Driscoll or, you in the style of Mark Driscoll or, you know, Christine Kaine or Priscilla Shy know, Christine Kaine or Priscilla Shy know, Christine Kaine or Priscilla Shy or whoever, and it'll do a decent job."

or whoever, and it'll do a decent job." or whoever, and it'll do a decent job." What are your thoughts on that? How do What are your thoughts on that? How do What are your thoughts on that? How do you use AI? What are the ethical uses of you use AI? What are the ethical uses of you use AI? What are the ethical uses of AI? AI? AI? >> I mean, it's interesting because I'm a >> I mean, it's interesting because I'm a >> I mean, it's interesting because I'm a pretty traditional guy. Like, I I don't pretty traditional guy. Like, I I don't pretty traditional guy. Like, I I don't have a go I write books. I I don't have have a go I write books. I I don't have have a go I write books. I I don't have a ghost writer. I'm like the guy who a ghost writer. I'm like the guy who a ghost writer. I'm like the guy who writes and rewrites the sentences myself writes and rewrites the sentences myself writes and rewrites the sentences myself 40, 50, 60 times over, wanting every 40, 50, 60 times over, wanting every 40, 50, 60 times over, wanting every phrase to be perfect. So, I would if you phrase to be perfect. So, I would if you phrase to be perfect. So, I would if you said to me, "Oh, I wrote at your best. said to me, "Oh, I wrote at your best. said to me, "Oh, I wrote at your best. some ghost writer just wrote it and I some ghost writer just wrote it and I some ghost writer just wrote it and I just like signed off on it. I'd be like, just like signed off on it. I'd be like, just like signed off on it. I'd be like, "Oh, okay. Well, that's not I mean, it's "Oh, okay. Well, that's not I mean, it's "Oh, okay. Well, that's not I mean, it's yours, but it's kind of not yours." You yours, but it's kind of not yours." You yours, but it's kind of not yours." You know? know? know? >> So, I don't know if that's like old >> So, I don't know if that's like old >> So, I don't know if that's like old school of me to the same, school of me to the same, school of me to the same, >> but just But remember, there was a time >> but just But remember, there was a time >> but just But remember, there was a time when people used to be like, you know, when people used to be like, you know, when people used to be like, you know, you're not allowed to read somebody's you're not allowed to read somebody's you're not allowed to read somebody's you can't even read a Spurgeon sermon, you can't even read a Spurgeon sermon, you can't even read a Spurgeon sermon, >> right, >> right, >> right, >> and and take it or take ideas from it or >> and and take it or take ideas from it or >> and and take it or take ideas from it or else it's plagiarism, you know, else it's plagiarism, you know, else it's plagiarism, you know, whatever. So, it's a it's kind of an whatever. So, it's a it's kind of an whatever. So, it's a it's kind of an alive question because now we would go, alive question because now we would go, alive question because now we would go, "Oh, you're reading an old Spurgeon "Oh, you're reading an old Spurgeon "Oh, you're reading an old Spurgeon sermon in a library and stealing one of sermon in a library and stealing one of sermon in a library and stealing one of his illustrations about lions." Like, his illustrations about lions." Like, his illustrations about lions." Like, what are you old school? Like, no one what are you old school? Like, no one what are you old school? Like, no one would raise a question about that.

would raise a question about that. would raise a question about that. >> So, is this that I don't know. This >> So, is this that I don't know. This >> So, is this that I don't know. This feels like more than that. feels like more than that. feels like more than that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> Um, >> Um, >> if I if I ever went into chat GBT and >> if I if I ever went into chat GBT and >> if I if I ever went into chat GBT and said, "Here's my passage. Write it in my said, "Here's my passage. Write it in my said, "Here's my passage. Write it in my voice." and then I took that and went voice." and then I took that and went voice." and then I took that and went and preached it. I think that would be and preached it. I think that would be and preached it. I think that would be weird and and a violation of my weird and and a violation of my weird and and a violation of my responsibility almost, but that might be responsibility almost, but that might be responsibility almost, but that might be because I'm old school because you go to because I'm old school because you go to because I'm old school because you go to the word of God on behalf of the people the word of God on behalf of the people the word of God on behalf of the people and on behalf of your calling. and on behalf of your calling. and on behalf of your calling. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Now, I do I have gone on and said, >> Now, I do I have gone on and said, >> Now, I do I have gone on and said, "Okay, I have the sermon on Acts 21 "Okay, I have the sermon on Acts 21 "Okay, I have the sermon on Acts 21 1-18. Um, hey, how would you outline it 1-18. Um, hey, how would you outline it 1-18. Um, hey, how would you outline it according?" Because because AI knows my according?" Because because AI knows my according?" Because because AI knows my theology, right? It grabs everything theology, right? It grabs everything theology, right? It grabs everything from the internet. I have enough sermons from the internet. I have enough sermons from the internet. I have enough sermons and books online and books online and books online >> out there in the ether >> out there in the ether >> out there in the ether >> that it can figure out what I would say >> that it can figure out what I would say >> that it can figure out what I would say >> and so um so I I've done that and I've >> and so um so I I've done that and I've >> and so um so I I've done that and I've gone okay so so just outline it for me gone okay so so just outline it for me gone okay so so just outline it for me what would be your four points outline what would be your four points outline what would be your four points outline cuz I'm not a points preacher to point cuz I'm not a points preacher to point cuz I'm not a points preacher to point but if I was what would your four points but if I was what would your four points but if I was what would your four points be and organized it perfect right it was be and organized it perfect right it was be and organized it perfect right it was like Paul speaks to this uh Mark would like Paul speaks to this uh Mark would like Paul speaks to this uh Mark would use an apologetics point to make this he use an apologetics point to make this he use an apologetics point to make this he might share the story about his what might share the story about his what might share the story about his what like literally it's telling me he would like literally it's telling me he would like literally it's telling me he would share the story about Aaron blah blah share the story about Aaron blah blah share the story about Aaron blah blah blah blah second point is this Paul says blah blah second point is this Paul says blah blah second point is this Paul says these are these guys. He would probably these are these guys. He would probably these are these guys. He would probably share a story about his struggle with share a story about his struggle with share a story about his struggle with Tourette's and obsessive compulsive like Tourette's and obsessive compulsive like Tourette's and obsessive compulsive like literally like that in 30 seconds literally like that in 30 seconds literally like that in 30 seconds because there's enough of me out there because there's enough of me out there because there's enough of me out there that it's starting to know me more and that it's starting to know me more and that it's starting to know me more and more.

more. more. >> Now, what did I do with that? I kind of >> Now, what did I do with that? I kind of >> Now, what did I do with that? I kind of laughed at it. I'm not an organized laughed at it. I'm not an organized laughed at it. I'm not an organized preacher like that anyway. I'm more preacher like that anyway. I'm more preacher like that anyway. I'm more stream of consciousness. So, I was like, stream of consciousness. So, I was like, stream of consciousness. So, I was like, "Oh, cool." But if I was an outline guy, "Oh, cool." But if I was an outline guy, "Oh, cool." But if I was an outline guy, I would probably grab that, throw it in, I would probably grab that, throw it in, I would probably grab that, throw it in, and then I'd start working on it. I'd and then I'd start working on it. I'd and then I'd start working on it. I'd start working with it. No, not much start working with it. No, not much start working with it. No, not much different than going to a a a commentary different than going to a a a commentary different than going to a a a commentary written by DA Carson who outlines that written by DA Carson who outlines that written by DA Carson who outlines that passage in these four movements, taking passage in these four movements, taking passage in these four movements, taking it, throwing in my sermon notes, and it, throwing in my sermon notes, and it, throwing in my sermon notes, and then starting to massage it. Um, if I'm then starting to massage it. Um, if I'm then starting to massage it. Um, if I'm starting to sketch out a 30week sermon starting to sketch out a 30week sermon starting to sketch out a 30week sermon series on the Gospel of John, I'm going series on the Gospel of John, I'm going series on the Gospel of John, I'm going to go on chat GPT. It's probably my to go on chat GPT. It's probably my to go on chat GPT. It's probably my first run now, and go, how would you do first run now, and go, how would you do first run now, and go, how would you do it? In 30 seconds, it's going to be it? In 30 seconds, it's going to be it? In 30 seconds, it's going to be outlined and then I'm going to get outlined and then I'm going to get outlined and then I'm going to get together with my team and we're going to together with my team and we're going to together with my team and we're going to start beating it up. So, I think those start beating it up. So, I think those start beating it up. So, I think those are the uses for it right now that are are the uses for it right now that are are the uses for it right now that are legitimate that I'm seeing, but there's legitimate that I'm seeing, but there's legitimate that I'm seeing, but there's certainly some fears in it, too. certainly some fears in it, too. certainly some fears in it, too. >> I I think we have to approach it with >> I I think we have to approach it with >> I I think we have to approach it with optimism and with caution. I love your optimism and with caution. I love your optimism and with caution. I love your approach saying like, you know, if it approach saying like, you know, if it approach saying like, you know, if it just wrote it for me like a ghost just wrote it for me like a ghost just wrote it for me like a ghost writer, I I am not on board with that writer, I I am not on board with that writer, I I am not on board with that because I don't think you or I would because I don't think you or I would because I don't think you or I would internalize the message. Like there is internalize the message. Like there is internalize the message. Like there is an authenticity like all this stuff an authenticity like all this stuff an authenticity like all this stuff we've done in the course and this we've done in the course and this we've done in the course and this podcast, everything like that. I think podcast, everything like that. I think podcast, everything like that. I think one of the reasons it resonates with one of the reasons it resonates with one of the reasons it resonates with people is they know like Mark's preached people is they know like Mark's preached people is they know like Mark's preached for 25 years, Carrie's done, you know, for 25 years, Carrie's done, you know, for 25 years, Carrie's done, you know, almost 35 years of preaching. They know almost 35 years of preaching. They know almost 35 years of preaching. They know their stuff. They're not just reading their stuff. They're not just reading their stuff. They're not just reading from a script that somebody else from a script that somebody else from a script that somebody else generated or that AI generated. There's generated or that AI generated. There's generated or that AI generated. There's a resonance there.

a resonance there. a resonance there. >> So when you tell your story about Target >> So when you tell your story about Target >> So when you tell your story about Target or you tell your story about your the or you tell your story about your the or you tell your story about your the dog or Aaron or whoever, right? When I dog or Aaron or whoever, right? When I dog or Aaron or whoever, right? When I tell my stories, when I talk about my tell my stories, when I talk about my tell my stories, when I talk about my wrestling with the text, wrestling with the text, wrestling with the text, >> that really resonates with people >> that really resonates with people >> that really resonates with people because they're like, "Yeah, that's because they're like, "Yeah, that's because they're like, "Yeah, that's real." They have like a fake detector real." They have like a fake detector real." They have like a fake detector >> versus I'm reading from a prepared >> versus I'm reading from a prepared >> versus I'm reading from a prepared statement or something that doesn't live statement or something that doesn't live statement or something that doesn't live in me. And I think when you write a in me. And I think when you write a in me. And I think when you write a message from scratch, message from scratch, message from scratch, >> the message lives in you. >> the message lives in you. >> the message lives in you. >> And when it lives in you and it comes >> And when it lives in you and it comes >> And when it lives in you and it comes out of you, it connects with people. out of you, it connects with people. out of you, it connects with people. Now, do I use AI? Yes. What do I use it Now, do I use AI? Yes. What do I use it Now, do I use AI? Yes. What do I use it for? Sometimes it's idea generation. for? Sometimes it's idea generation. for? Sometimes it's idea generation. Sometimes it's brainstorming. Often it's Sometimes it's brainstorming. Often it's Sometimes it's brainstorming. Often it's a great critiquer. You know, you get all a great critiquer. You know, you get all a great critiquer. You know, you get all your notes written, whether that's a your notes written, whether that's a your notes written, whether that's a manuscript or whatever. You feed it into manuscript or whatever. You feed it into manuscript or whatever. You feed it into whatever claude chatgpt and say critique whatever claude chatgpt and say critique whatever claude chatgpt and say critique this as though you were an unchurched this as though you were an unchurched this as though you were an unchurched person. person. person. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> See what they say. If you're a mature >> See what they say. If you're a mature >> See what they say. If you're a mature Christian, what does it say? What are Christian, what does it say? What are Christian, what does it say? What are you missing? It'll point out holes in you missing? It'll point out holes in you missing? It'll point out holes in your argument. It will say, you know, your argument. It will say, you know, your argument. It will say, you know, you ask it, what do you get out of this? you ask it, what do you get out of this? you ask it, what do you get out of this? Now, AI is going to keep evolving and Now, AI is going to keep evolving and Now, AI is going to keep evolving and keep changing. keep changing. keep changing. >> But I think the most AI proof thing you >> But I think the most AI proof thing you >> But I think the most AI proof thing you can do is to be more human. You know, can do is to be more human. You know, can do is to be more human. You know, when I tell a story about a time in my when I tell a story about a time in my when I tell a story about a time in my life where I felt like giving up and I'm life where I felt like giving up and I'm life where I felt like giving up and I'm real about that and I'm like, I thought real about that and I'm like, I thought real about that and I'm like, I thought about suicide. I've preached about that.

about suicide. I've preached about that. about suicide. I've preached about that. That happened a long time ago in my That happened a long time ago in my That happened a long time ago in my life. That's real. life. That's real. life. That's real. >> And people leave the service in tears >> And people leave the service in tears >> And people leave the service in tears and people leave the service jarred. and people leave the service jarred. and people leave the service jarred. That's not, you know, AI might be able That's not, you know, AI might be able That's not, you know, AI might be able to help me say it a little bit better. I to help me say it a little bit better. I to help me say it a little bit better. I might not feed that one in because it's might not feed that one in because it's might not feed that one in because it's so personal and so real. so personal and so real. so personal and so real. >> Um, so that's what I have found really >> Um, so that's what I have found really >> Um, so that's what I have found really helpful. Hey Mark, we're wrapping up helpful. Hey Mark, we're wrapping up helpful. Hey Mark, we're wrapping up now. Is there any question about now. Is there any question about now. Is there any question about preaching that you think or topic that preaching that you think or topic that preaching that you think or topic that is not touched on enough that needs to is not touched on enough that needs to is not touched on enough that needs to be touched on? Like question that needs be touched on? Like question that needs be touched on? Like question that needs to be asked, topic that needs to be to be asked, topic that needs to be to be asked, topic that needs to be addressed. I just honestly think um hard addressed. I just honestly think um hard addressed. I just honestly think um hard work is when I'm when I'm up in front of work is when I'm when I'm up in front of work is when I'm when I'm up in front of preachers and teachers and get the preachers and teachers and get the preachers and teachers and get the opportunity uh to to talk to them. One opportunity uh to to talk to them. One opportunity uh to to talk to them. One of the things that really resonates with of the things that really resonates with of the things that really resonates with them almost the most is when I explain them almost the most is when I explain them almost the most is when I explain to them my process or the amount of to them my process or the amount of to them my process or the amount of hours and time and energy that I put hours and time and energy that I put hours and time and energy that I put into these things um I tell the story into these things um I tell the story into these things um I tell the story about um you've probably seen um uh about um you've probably seen um uh about um you've probably seen um uh comedians in Cars Getting Coffee with comedians in Cars Getting Coffee with comedians in Cars Getting Coffee with Jerry episodes.

Jerry episodes. Jerry episodes. >> So there's an episode with Kramer. >> So there's an episode with Kramer. >> So there's an episode with Kramer. >> Okay. Michael Richards, you know, in the >> Okay. Michael Richards, you know, in the >> Okay. Michael Richards, you know, in the first season and he tells the story and first season and he tells the story and first season and he tells the story and he's talking and and he says, you know, he's talking and and he says, you know, he's talking and and he says, you know, I was I was back when I was doing that I was I was back when I was doing that I was I was back when I was doing that show, I'd be back in the in the like the show, I'd be back in the in the like the show, I'd be back in the in the like the green room and and Jerry said, "Yeah, I green room and and Jerry said, "Yeah, I green room and and Jerry said, "Yeah, I saw you there. You were always doing saw you there. You were always doing saw you there. You were always doing your lines up against the wall. You your lines up against the wall. You your lines up against the wall. You were, you know, doing your little pivots were, you know, doing your little pivots were, you know, doing your little pivots and and always working working right and and always working working right and and always working working right until they said action and you slide out until they said action and you slide out until they said action and you slide out and you do it and and everyone perceived and you do it and and everyone perceived and you do it and and everyone perceived that to me." Just Michael Richards was that to me." Just Michael Richards was that to me." Just Michael Richards was winging it. He going, you know, you winging it. He going, you know, you winging it. He going, you know, you know, whatever, all the the the crazy know, whatever, all the the the crazy know, whatever, all the the the crazy stuff. stuff. stuff. >> But this guy was and he looks at Jerry >> But this guy was and he looks at Jerry >> But this guy was and he looks at Jerry in the interview, he says, "Yeah, you in the interview, he says, "Yeah, you in the interview, he says, "Yeah, you know, I feel like I I feel like I missed know, I feel like I I feel like I missed know, I feel like I I feel like I missed the '9s. You know, I feel like I didn't the '9s. You know, I feel like I didn't the '9s. You know, I feel like I didn't I didn't enjoy them because I was I didn't enjoy them because I was I didn't enjoy them because I was working so hard in that green room, working so hard in that green room, working so hard in that green room, every phrase, every turn of my face was every phrase, every turn of my face was every phrase, every turn of my face was was was I just Yeah. All the stuff was was I just Yeah. All the stuff was was I just Yeah. All the stuff >> that I missed the 90s. I missed the joy >> that I missed the 90s. I missed the joy >> that I missed the 90s. I missed the joy of being on the show." And Jerry says to of being on the show." And Jerry says to of being on the show." And Jerry says to him, "No, that wasn't your job. You were him, "No, that wasn't your job. You were him, "No, that wasn't your job. You were to sacrifice in that room so the to sacrifice in that room so the to sacrifice in that room so the audience enjoyed it." That is what the audience enjoyed it." That is what the audience enjoyed it." That is what the job of the preacher is. And when I get job of the preacher is. And when I get job of the preacher is. And when I get to look at preachers and say, "Listen, to look at preachers and say, "Listen, to look at preachers and say, "Listen, man, your job is not to enjoy your man, your job is not to enjoy your man, your job is not to enjoy your little life and have a blah blah blah.

little life and have a blah blah blah. little life and have a blah blah blah. You sacrifice for these people. So if You sacrifice for these people. So if You sacrifice for these people. So if you have to say to your family on you have to say to your family on you have to say to your family on Saturday, you know what? We got to Saturday, you know what? We got to Saturday, you know what? We got to figure our life out, man. Because I got figure our life out, man. Because I got figure our life out, man. Because I got to be in a room preaching against a wall to be in a room preaching against a wall to be in a room preaching against a wall because I'm only good. I'm not great. because I'm only good. I'm not great. because I'm only good. I'm not great. And those people deserve great. Then And those people deserve great. Then And those people deserve great. Then that's what you need to do. And you that's what you need to do. And you that's what you need to do. And you won't do it. And the reason you won't do won't do it. And the reason you won't do won't do it. And the reason you won't do it is because it's too much hard work it is because it's too much hard work it is because it's too much hard work and you're not willing to do it. and you're not willing to do it. and you're not willing to do it. >> And usually when I talk to preachers in >> And usually when I talk to preachers in >> And usually when I talk to preachers in rooms 20, 30 at a time, rooms 20, 30 at a time, rooms 20, 30 at a time, >> out of every I can give them 30 three >> out of every I can give them 30 three >> out of every I can give them 30 three hours of preaching content, hours of preaching content, hours of preaching content, >> it's when I say that that they look at >> it's when I say that that they look at >> it's when I say that that they look at me and almost to the person go, "You me and almost to the person go, "You me and almost to the person go, "You know what? You're right. You're right. I know what? You're right. You're right. I know what? You're right. You're right. I am not willing to work that hard. And am not willing to work that hard. And am not willing to work that hard. And that's and that's good of them to admit that's and that's good of them to admit that's and that's good of them to admit that. But it's going to take that take that. But it's going to take that take that. But it's going to take that take all the principles, but you got to put all the principles, but you got to put all the principles, but you got to put in the work. in the work. in the work. >> Yeah. You know what I mean? There's a >> Yeah. You know what I mean? There's a >> Yeah. You know what I mean? There's a couple on I couldn't agree more. And we couple on I couldn't agree more. And we couple on I couldn't agree more. And we see the success and the stuff that looks see the success and the stuff that looks see the success and the stuff that looks easy actually was hard. And it's funny easy actually was hard. And it's funny easy actually was hard. And it's funny you mentioned Kramer. If my wife's you mentioned Kramer. If my wife's you mentioned Kramer. If my wife's having a bad day and she needs a good having a bad day and she needs a good having a bad day and she needs a good laugh, I'll find an old Seinfeld clip.

laugh, I'll find an old Seinfeld clip. laugh, I'll find an old Seinfeld clip. Soon as she sees Kramer, she's like Soon as she sees Kramer, she's like Soon as she sees Kramer, she's like almost crying. Right. Right. Like it's almost crying. Right. Right. Like it's almost crying. Right. Right. Like it's she loves Kramer. It's great. But I had she loves Kramer. It's great. But I had she loves Kramer. It's great. But I had no idea that that was the 90s for him no idea that that was the 90s for him no idea that that was the 90s for him rehearsing everything and he makes it rehearsing everything and he makes it rehearsing everything and he makes it look effortless. look effortless. look effortless. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> You know, I got a couple of friends, >> You know, I got a couple of friends, >> You know, I got a couple of friends, podcast alumni here. Uh you work really podcast alumni here. Uh you work really podcast alumni here. Uh you work really hard at this and I I've seen you work. hard at this and I I've seen you work. hard at this and I I've seen you work. I've seen you sweat. I'm watching you I've seen you sweat. I'm watching you I've seen you sweat. I'm watching you sweat right now as we film this course, sweat right now as we film this course, sweat right now as we film this course, as you preach in this area. I'm watching as you preach in this area. I'm watching as you preach in this area. I'm watching you do it. You're the real deal. Um two you do it. You're the real deal. Um two you do it. You're the real deal. Um two other names, John Akuff, Ryan Leak. So other names, John Akuff, Ryan Leak. So other names, John Akuff, Ryan Leak. So John Auff works so hard on his craft. John Auff works so hard on his craft. John Auff works so hard on his craft. He's been on the show many times. I He's been on the show many times. I He's been on the show many times. I talked to John at least every month and talked to John at least every month and talked to John at least every month and the dude is always hours and hours and the dude is always hours and hours and the dude is always hours and hours and hours. So he's hilarious. He's funny. hours. So he's hilarious. He's funny. hours. So he's hilarious. He's funny. He's clear. He's clever. You have no He's clear. He's clever. You have no He's clear. He's clever. You have no idea the work that went into it. And idea the work that went into it. And idea the work that went into it. And then we had Ryan Leak on the podcast. then we had Ryan Leak on the podcast. then we had Ryan Leak on the podcast. Just this morning I'm scrolling through Just this morning I'm scrolling through Just this morning I'm scrolling through my phone. I see that his new book hit my phone. I see that his new book hit my phone. I see that his new book hit top 10 New York Times bestseller. I'm top 10 New York Times bestseller. I'm top 10 New York Times bestseller. I'm like good. And before I would have like good. And before I would have like good. And before I would have looked at that and went, "Wow, he's looked at that and went, "Wow, he's looked at that and went, "Wow, he's young. Like how did it get there?" when young. Like how did it get there?" when young. Like how did it get there?" when I interviewed him and it's in the I interviewed him and it's in the I interviewed him and it's in the archive. archive. archive. >> Ryan talks about maniacal preparation >> Ryan talks about maniacal preparation >> Ryan talks about maniacal preparation and back to where we started. You know, and back to where we started. You know, and back to where we started. You know, when you were doing youth things and when you were doing youth things and when you were doing youth things and you're planning for weeks and you're you're planning for weeks and you're you're planning for weeks and you're rehearsing all the jokes and you're rehearsing all the jokes and you're rehearsing all the jokes and you're rehearsing all the lines and you're rehearsing all the lines and you're rehearsing all the lines and you're rehearsing all that, that kind of prep rehearsing all that, that kind of prep rehearsing all that, that kind of prep went back. Ryan's done the same thing went back. Ryan's done the same thing went back. Ryan's done the same thing and I think we forget that. So, I'm not and I think we forget that. So, I'm not and I think we forget that. So, I'm not saying become a workaholic and spend 90 saying become a workaholic and spend 90 saying become a workaholic and spend 90 hours a week, you know, and ignore your hours a week, you know, and ignore your hours a week, you know, and ignore your family and get divorced. It's not what family and get divorced. It's not what family and get divorced. It's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying. I'm saying. >> Is that what I just said? >> Is that what I just said? >> Is that what I just said? >> No, that's not what you're saying. But >> No, that's not what you're saying. But >> No, that's not what you're saying. But what you are saying is this going to be what you are saying is this going to be what you are saying is this going to be hard work, right? Do you know how hard hard work, right? Do you know how hard hard work, right? Do you know how hard clarity is for me? clarity is for me? clarity is for me? >> It is really difficult because you look >> It is really difficult because you look >> It is really difficult because you look at a million points of information. at a million points of information. at a million points of information. >> You're trying to make sense of it >> You're trying to make sense of it >> You're trying to make sense of it >> and then you're like there it is. >> and then you're like there it is. >> and then you're like there it is. >> But that takes hours and hours of >> But that takes hours and hours of >> But that takes hours and hours of thinking, mulling, and everything. So thinking, mulling, and everything. So thinking, mulling, and everything. So >> and one thing I've learned from you is >> and one thing I've learned from you is >> and one thing I've learned from you is exactly what you described earlier with exactly what you described earlier with exactly what you described earlier with the clarity and really working on those the clarity and really working on those the clarity and really working on those lines, those sentences that stick with lines, those sentences that stick with lines, those sentences that stick with people. And there was one that that um people. And there was one that that um people. And there was one that that um the other day I was preaching and I was the other day I was preaching and I was the other day I was preaching and I was preaching the sermon. I was all over the preaching the sermon. I was all over the preaching the sermon. I was all over the map all these illustrations and you know map all these illustrations and you know map all these illustrations and you know people were laugh people were into it people were laugh people were into it people were laugh people were into it but I was like okay am I really and then but I was like okay am I really and then but I was like okay am I really and then this thought dawned on me this thought dawned on me this thought dawned on me >> and I looked out the audience and I was >> and I looked out the audience and I was >> and I looked out the audience and I was in a very car-esque kind of way. I said in a very car-esque kind of way. I said in a very car-esque kind of way. I said you can't change the world by minding you can't change the world by minding you can't change the world by minding your own business. your own business. your own business. that line still. And people walking up that line still. And people walking up that line still. And people walking up to me, they're like, "Bro, where did you to me, they're like, "Bro, where did you to me, they're like, "Bro, where did you I was like and I'm like, I don't know I was like and I'm like, I don't know I was like and I'm like, I don't know where that even came from, but it was where that even came from, but it was where that even came from, but it was just it was wrapped up in this story, just it was wrapped up in this story, just it was wrapped up in this story, but my wife helping a choking baby at but my wife helping a choking baby at but my wife helping a choking baby at Disneyland and how she went out of her Disneyland and how she went out of her Disneyland and how she went out of her way with no information and start pulls way with no information and start pulls way with no information and start pulls a baby off a baby bur and starts giving a baby off a baby bur and starts giving a baby off a baby bur and starts giving it him licks about it to save its life."

it him licks about it to save its life." it him licks about it to save its life." And I'm like, if that would have been And I'm like, if that would have been And I'm like, if that would have been me, I would have been like, "Oh, don't me, I would have been like, "Oh, don't me, I would have been like, "Oh, don't bother anyone. Let's just leave." You bother anyone. Let's just leave." You bother anyone. Let's just leave." You know, they're they're probably fine. and know, they're they're probably fine. and know, they're they're probably fine. and the baby's choking, but it's I wouldn't the baby's choking, but it's I wouldn't the baby's choking, but it's I wouldn't even bother. But you can't change the even bother. But you can't change the even bother. But you can't change the world by minding your own business. world by minding your own business. world by minding your own business. Sometimes you got to stick your nose Sometimes you got to stick your nose Sometimes you got to stick your nose into people's lives. And you know, and into people's lives. And you know, and into people's lives. And you know, and that was one of those and and I learned that was one of those and and I learned that was one of those and and I learned when I said that line. I'm like, when I said that line. I'm like, when I said that line. I'm like, Carrie's right. I got to work harder on Carrie's right. I got to work harder on Carrie's right. I got to work harder on these lines. Well, I got to work better these lines. Well, I got to work better these lines. Well, I got to work better at storytelling, etc. But what's so cool at storytelling, etc. But what's so cool at storytelling, etc. But what's so cool about that cuz I can almost see the about that cuz I can almost see the about that cuz I can almost see the message 40 minutes around that with the message 40 minutes around that with the message 40 minutes around that with the stories and everything like that. stories and everything like that. stories and everything like that. Otherwise, it would have been a lot of Otherwise, it would have been a lot of Otherwise, it would have been a lot of stories. But you can't change the world stories. But you can't change the world stories. But you can't change the world by minding your own business. I already by minding your own business. I already by minding your own business. I already remember that. remember that. remember that. >> And what's so powerful, we teach, you >> And what's so powerful, we teach, you >> And what's so powerful, we teach, you know, how to create a bottom line like know, how to create a bottom line like know, how to create a bottom line like that in the course. What's so powerful that in the course. What's so powerful that in the course. What's so powerful about that is it carries the weight of about that is it carries the weight of about that is it carries the weight of the message. That is the message, right? the message. That is the message, right? the message. That is the message, right? That is the message. If you create a That is the message. If you create a That is the message. If you create a really fun sing songy bottom line thing really fun sing songy bottom line thing really fun sing songy bottom line thing that's kind of crap, throwaway, that's kind of crap, throwaway, that's kind of crap, throwaway, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Great. All right. Somebody remembers >> Great. All right. Somebody remembers >> Great. All right. Somebody remembers something that doesn't mean anything. something that doesn't mean anything. something that doesn't mean anything. But if it actually carries the weight of But if it actually carries the weight of But if it actually carries the weight of the 40 minutes, the 40 minutes, the 40 minutes, >> somebody on a Wednesday night >> somebody on a Wednesday night >> somebody on a Wednesday night >> who's shopping for groceries, >> who's shopping for groceries, >> who's shopping for groceries, >> sees somebody struggling >> sees somebody struggling >> sees somebody struggling >> and says, "Should I act?" You can't >> and says, "Should I act?" You can't >> and says, "Should I act?" You can't change the world by minding your own change the world by minding your own change the world by minding your own business. That's the power of that. And business. That's the power of that. And business. That's the power of that. And attached to a story like that is so attached to a story like that is so attached to a story like that is so amazing. Well, listen. Hey, Mark and I amazing. Well, listen. Hey, Mark and I amazing. Well, listen. Hey, Mark and I are very different communicators. We're are very different communicators. We're are very different communicators. We're great friends. And uh I guess we want to great friends. And uh I guess we want to great friends. And uh I guess we want to encourage people to check out the art of encourage people to check out the art of encourage people to check out the art of preaching. So you can go to the art of preaching. So you can go to the art of preaching. So you can go to the art of preaching.com, check it out there. Uh,

preaching.com, check it out there. Uh, preaching.com, check it out there. Uh, brand new course. Would love to have you brand new course. Would love to have you brand new course. Would love to have you join. You're on the socials, Mark Clark. join. You're on the socials, Mark Clark. join. You're on the socials, Mark Clark. You got a little check. You got a little check. You got a little check. >> I think it's a markers on Instagram. I >> I think it's a markers on Instagram. I >> I think it's a markers on Instagram. I think that's where I mostly am is think that's where I mostly am is think that's where I mostly am is Instagram. Go Instagram over there. And Instagram. Go Instagram over there. And Instagram. Go Instagram over there. And the Mark Clark podcast. I've started the Mark Clark podcast. I've started the Mark Clark podcast. I've started doing that every week. A sermon drops doing that every week. A sermon drops doing that every week. A sermon drops every week. every week. every week. >> So it's a sermon podcast. >> So it's a sermon podcast. >> So it's a sermon podcast. I think one of the best communicators I think one of the best communicators I think one of the best communicators out there. That's why I love working out there. That's why I love working out there. That's why I love working with you. That's why it's such a joy. with you. That's why it's such a joy. with you. That's why it's such a joy. And make sure you check it out, the art And make sure you check it out, the art And make sure you check it out, the art of preaching.com.