How I Handled 29 Stressful Events In One Year

As I'm reading through chapter 10 of of As I'm reading through chapter 10 of of Craig's book, I start to journal, well, Craig's book, I start to journal, well, Craig's book, I start to journal, well, how many external stressors have I had how many external stressors have I had how many external stressors have I had >> in the last and in that case, the >> in the last and in that case, the >> in the last and in that case, the timeline was 14 months. timeline was 14 months. timeline was 14 months. >> It was 29. And it blew me away. >> It was 29. And it blew me away. >> It was 29. And it blew me away. Everything from my father-in-law dying Everything from my father-in-law dying Everything from my father-in-law dying to navigating his funeral, which is to navigating his funeral, which is to navigating his funeral, which is never easy, to my parents both having never easy, to my parents both having never easy, to my parents both having significant health challenges, my dad significant health challenges, my dad significant health challenges, my dad being diagnosed. Welcome to the Carrie being diagnosed. Welcome to the Carrie being diagnosed. Welcome to the Carrie New Hoff Leadership Podcast. It's Carrie New Hoff Leadership Podcast. It's Carrie New Hoff Leadership Podcast. It's Carrie here, and today something very here, and today something very here, and today something very different. This one's personal and you different. This one's personal and you different. This one's personal and you know sometimes we lead on the outside know sometimes we lead on the outside know sometimes we lead on the outside but there's a struggle going in on the but there's a struggle going in on the but there's a struggle going in on the inside. So today I want to share uh inside. So today I want to share uh inside. So today I want to share uh what's happened over the last year and a what's happened over the last year and a what's happened over the last year and a half. Honestly, it's been one of my most half. Honestly, it's been one of my most half. Honestly, it's been one of my most stressful years in life and leadership stressful years in life and leadership stressful years in life and leadership in two decades. I burned out in 2006. in two decades. I burned out in 2006. in two decades. I burned out in 2006. That was different. That was like That was different. That was like That was different. That was like internal stress, but I've had 29 internal stress, but I've had 29 internal stress, but I've had 29 stressful events in 14 months. A major stressful events in 14 months. A major stressful events in 14 months. A major health crisis. And so in this episode, health crisis. And so in this episode, health crisis. And so in this episode, my good friend Shawn Morgan from the my good friend Shawn Morgan from the my good friend Shawn Morgan from the Leaders in Living Rooms podcast Leaders in Living Rooms podcast Leaders in Living Rooms podcast interviews me and we were going to interviews me and we were going to interviews me and we were going to originally put this on his show, but he originally put this on his show, but he originally put this on his show, but he decided to uh allow me the privilege of decided to uh allow me the privilege of decided to uh allow me the privilege of sharing it with you. And there's no sharing it with you. And there's no sharing it with you. And there's no sugar coating, okay? We talk about um sugar coating, okay? We talk about um sugar coating, okay? We talk about um well, how external turmoil, inner drive, well, how external turmoil, inner drive, well, how external turmoil, inner drive, and unexpected diagnosis kind of all and unexpected diagnosis kind of all and unexpected diagnosis kind of all collided in my life and what I had to collided in my life and what I had to collided in my life and what I had to modify to ensure I didn't burn out modify to ensure I didn't burn out modify to ensure I didn't burn out again. So, um, anyway, I do this mostly again. So, um, anyway, I do this mostly again. So, um, anyway, I do this mostly so that you can see sometimes it looks so that you can see sometimes it looks so that you can see sometimes it looks like everything's going great on the like everything's going great on the like everything's going great on the outside. You know, this as a leader, but outside. You know, this as a leader, but outside. You know, this as a leader, but on the inside, you're dealing with all on the inside, you're dealing with all on the inside, you're dealing with all kinds of stuff. What do you do with

kinds of stuff. What do you do with kinds of stuff. What do you do with that? Well, that's what we're going to that? Well, that's what we're going to that? Well, that's what we're going to talk about very transparently. Now, I talk about very transparently. Now, I talk about very transparently. Now, I wrote a book about the internal wrote a book about the internal wrote a book about the internal stressors in your life and how to stressors in your life and how to stressors in your life and how to control situations. It's called At Your control situations. It's called At Your control situations. It's called At Your Best. I would love to give five copies Best. I would love to give five copies Best. I would love to give five copies away. So, if you want to enter here on away. So, if you want to enter here on away. So, if you want to enter here on YouTube, just type in the comments YouTube, just type in the comments YouTube, just type in the comments below, I'm ready to live at my best. below, I'm ready to live at my best. below, I'm ready to live at my best. We'll select five lucky winners. You We'll select five lucky winners. You We'll select five lucky winners. You guys will get a copy of my latest book. guys will get a copy of my latest book. guys will get a copy of my latest book. And wherever you're watching, be sure to And wherever you're watching, be sure to And wherever you're watching, be sure to subscribe, follow, and leave a comment subscribe, follow, and leave a comment subscribe, follow, and leave a comment to join the conversation. I really to join the conversation. I really to join the conversation. I really truthfully hope that you find this truthfully hope that you find this truthfully hope that you find this helpful. That's why I'm sharing it with helpful. That's why I'm sharing it with helpful. That's why I'm sharing it with you. So, to now, a word from today's you. So, to now, a word from today's you. So, to now, a word from today's partners and then we'll dive into my partners and then we'll dive into my partners and then we'll dive into my conversation with Shawn Morgan. conversation with Shawn Morgan. conversation with Shawn Morgan. Preachers, what if the next time you Preachers, what if the next time you Preachers, what if the next time you stepped on stage, you knew your message stepped on stage, you knew your message stepped on stage, you knew your message would be clear, your delivery would be would be clear, your delivery would be would be clear, your delivery would be sharp, and your words would stick, sharp, and your words would stick, sharp, and your words would stick, right? Sometimes for months or even right? Sometimes for months or even right? Sometimes for months or even years. Well, I've got an exciting years. Well, I've got an exciting years. Well, I've got an exciting announcement. On September 22nd, the announcement. On September 22nd, the announcement. On September 22nd, the updated and expanded Art of Preaching updated and expanded Art of Preaching updated and expanded Art of Preaching course launches. Now, Mark Clark and I course launches. Now, Mark Clark and I course launches. Now, Mark Clark and I built it on the foundation of the built it on the foundation of the built it on the foundation of the original course, but the new version original course, but the new version original course, but the new version goes way deeper, adds fresh tools, and goes way deeper, adds fresh tools, and goes way deeper, adds fresh tools, and gives you a proven plan to transform gives you a proven plan to transform gives you a proven plan to transform your preaching. It's rebuilt from the your preaching. It's rebuilt from the your preaching. It's rebuilt from the ground up. So, you'll learn how to get ground up. So, you'll learn how to get ground up. So, you'll learn how to get ahead in your sermon prep, how to use ahead in your sermon prep, how to use ahead in your sermon prep, how to use humor and storytelling that actually humor and storytelling that actually humor and storytelling that actually works, how to build a teaching team works, how to build a teaching team works, how to build a teaching team that's aligned and effective, and even that's aligned and effective, and even that's aligned and effective, and even how to leverage AI to make your prep how to leverage AI to make your prep how to leverage AI to make your prep sharper, and much, much more. It's a sharper, and much, much more. It's a sharper, and much, much more. It's a whole new course. So, most preaching whole new course. So, most preaching whole new course. So, most preaching resources provide inspiration and they resources provide inspiration and they resources provide inspiration and they don't offer practical skills you need

don't offer practical skills you need don't offer practical skills you need for Sunday morning or they hand you a for Sunday morning or they hand you a for Sunday morning or they hand you a formula that worked for someone else or formula that worked for someone else or formula that worked for someone else or a decade ago, but it might not be a fit a decade ago, but it might not be a fit a decade ago, but it might not be a fit for you. The art of preaching gives you for you. The art of preaching gives you for you. The art of preaching gives you the insight, strategies, and tools to the insight, strategies, and tools to the insight, strategies, and tools to transform your skill set and develop transform your skill set and develop transform your skill set and develop your gifting. So, mark September 22nd on your gifting. So, mark September 22nd on your gifting. So, mark September 22nd on your calendar and get ready for a proven your calendar and get ready for a proven your calendar and get ready for a proven step-by-step road map to transform your step-by-step road map to transform your step-by-step road map to transform your preaching starting the following Sunday. preaching starting the following Sunday. preaching starting the following Sunday. This episode is brought to you by Convoy This episode is brought to you by Convoy This episode is brought to you by Convoy of Hope. So, mark your calendars and of Hope. So, mark your calendars and of Hope. So, mark your calendars and make plans to join me this fall for a make plans to join me this fall for a make plans to join me this fall for a very historic event, incredible very historic event, incredible very historic event, incredible conference held by my good friends at conference held by my good friends at conference held by my good friends at Convoy of Hope. I'll be at the Convoy of Convoy of Hope. I'll be at the Convoy of Convoy of Hope. I'll be at the Convoy of Hopes Global Headquarters and Training Hopes Global Headquarters and Training Hopes Global Headquarters and Training Center in Springfield, Missouri, Center in Springfield, Missouri, Center in Springfield, Missouri, November 5th through 7th for the November 5th through 7th for the November 5th through 7th for the inaugural Hope Summit. It's a gathering inaugural Hope Summit. It's a gathering inaugural Hope Summit. It's a gathering of more than 1,200 church and of more than 1,200 church and of more than 1,200 church and marketplace leaders and it's going to marketplace leaders and it's going to marketplace leaders and it's going to provide you with a wealth of resources provide you with a wealth of resources provide you with a wealth of resources designed to help you have a designed to help you have a designed to help you have a significantly greater impact in your significantly greater impact in your significantly greater impact in your ministry from neighborhoods to nations. ministry from neighborhoods to nations. ministry from neighborhoods to nations. Hope Summit has an amazing lineup of Hope Summit has an amazing lineup of Hope Summit has an amazing lineup of speakers like Chris Hodgeges and Jenny speakers like Chris Hodgeges and Jenny speakers like Chris Hodgeges and Jenny Allen all be speaking as well. Natalie Allen all be speaking as well. Natalie Allen all be speaking as well. Natalie Grant will be leading worship. And can I Grant will be leading worship. And can I Grant will be leading worship. And can I tell you, they got a great little coffee tell you, they got a great little coffee tell you, they got a great little coffee shop in that uh airport at Springfield.

shop in that uh airport at Springfield. shop in that uh airport at Springfield. Anyway, you can register at Anyway, you can register at Anyway, you can register at hopesummit.com/carry hopesummit.com/carry hopesummit.com/carry to take advantage of a special to take advantage of a special to take advantage of a special discounted rate. That's discounted rate. That's discounted rate. That's hopesummit.com/cy. hopesummit.com/cy. hopesummit.com/cy. And hope to see you this November at And hope to see you this November at And hope to see you this November at hopesummit. Hey Carrie, thank you so hopesummit. Hey Carrie, thank you so hopesummit. Hey Carrie, thank you so much for coming back on the podcast. much for coming back on the podcast. much for coming back on the podcast. Always honored to steward parts of of Always honored to steward parts of of Always honored to steward parts of of your story and all your learning. your story and all your learning. your story and all your learning. >> Such a joy, man. I just love hanging out >> Such a joy, man. I just love hanging out >> Such a joy, man. I just love hanging out with you on or off the air. with you on or off the air. with you on or off the air. >> Yeah. Well, this is a this is a cool >> Yeah. Well, this is a this is a cool >> Yeah. Well, this is a this is a cool season. Uh you got some health back. I season. Uh you got some health back. I season. Uh you got some health back. I think everybody listening has probably think everybody listening has probably think everybody listening has probably paid attention to some of your posts. paid attention to some of your posts. paid attention to some of your posts. We're headed into to summer and that We're headed into to summer and that We're headed into to summer and that that's a beautiful feeling. So, yeah, that's a beautiful feeling. So, yeah, that's a beautiful feeling. So, yeah, catch us up a little bit if you don't catch us up a little bit if you don't catch us up a little bit if you don't mind on on health stuff because it it mind on on health stuff because it it mind on on health stuff because it it gave me a scare when I scrolled through gave me a scare when I scrolled through gave me a scare when I scrolled through Instagram, which I do about one day a Instagram, which I do about one day a Instagram, which I do about one day a month, and there was a picture of you in month, and there was a picture of you in month, and there was a picture of you in a hospital bed. a hospital bed. a hospital bed. >> Yeah, it was a big surprise for me, too. >> Yeah, it was a big surprise for me, too. >> Yeah, it was a big surprise for me, too. So, I turned 60 in March, and it was So, I turned 60 in March, and it was So, I turned 60 in March, and it was kind of a big deal. You know, you and I kind of a big deal. You know, you and I kind of a big deal. You know, you and I had talked about it a little bit, and I had talked about it a little bit, and I had talked about it a little bit, and I had planned like really spent a very had planned like really spent a very had planned like really spent a very intentional year leading up to my 60th intentional year leading up to my 60th intentional year leading up to my 60th birthday. Where am I at, God? What do birthday. Where am I at, God? What do birthday. Where am I at, God? What do you want me to do? And was feeling you want me to do? And was feeling you want me to do? And was feeling really good, like excellent about it.

really good, like excellent about it. really good, like excellent about it. And I thought this is going to be like And I thought this is going to be like And I thought this is going to be like I'm getting in the top shape of my life I'm getting in the top shape of my life I'm getting in the top shape of my life kind of year. I'd been on a fitness kind of year. I'd been on a fitness kind of year. I'd been on a fitness journey for 3 months and or three years, journey for 3 months and or three years, journey for 3 months and or three years, I should say. Three months. Three years. I should say. Three months. Three years. I should say. Three months. Three years. was feeling really good and uh a month was feeling really good and uh a month was feeling really good and uh a month later I'm in the hospital uh overnight later I'm in the hospital uh overnight later I'm in the hospital uh overnight for the first time since I was I don't for the first time since I was I don't for the first time since I was I don't know 18 months old getting my tonsils know 18 months old getting my tonsils know 18 months old getting my tonsils out or whenever that happened back in out or whenever that happened back in out or whenever that happened back in the day. It's one of my first early the day. It's one of my first early the day. It's one of my first early childhood memories. I remember walking childhood memories. I remember walking childhood memories. I remember walking down the hall of the hospital and seeing down the hall of the hospital and seeing down the hall of the hospital and seeing like this TV show, this TV with a show like this TV show, this TV with a show like this TV show, this TV with a show on. I was like 18 months, two years old. on. I was like 18 months, two years old. on. I was like 18 months, two years old. I don't think I've been overnight in a I don't think I've been overnight in a I don't think I've been overnight in a hospital since then. So hospital since then. So hospital since then. So >> fast forward almost six decades I find >> fast forward almost six decades I find >> fast forward almost six decades I find myself there really surprised. So myself there really surprised. So myself there really surprised. So >> yeah, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> the diagnosis that that they're still >> the diagnosis that that they're still >> the diagnosis that that they're still working with that they gave me that day working with that they gave me that day working with that they gave me that day is warm idiopathic hemolytic anemia is warm idiopathic hemolytic anemia is warm idiopathic hemolytic anemia which is um like took me a long time to which is um like took me a long time to which is um like took me a long time to memorize that but basically u about a memorize that but basically u about a memorize that but basically u about a month around my 60th birthday um I I month around my 60th birthday um I I month around my 60th birthday um I I wear an aura ring and I just happened to wear an aura ring and I just happened to wear an aura ring and I just happened to have picked up the latest generation a have picked up the latest generation a have picked up the latest generation a couple months earlier so it's got pretty couple months earlier so it's got pretty couple months earlier so it's got pretty good metrics good metrics good metrics >> and I noticed my readiness score which >> and I noticed my readiness score which >> and I noticed my readiness score which is like getting a report card every day is like getting a report card every day is like getting a report card every day >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> was dropping. Now, we were on a team >> was dropping. Now, we were on a team >> was dropping. Now, we were on a team retreat in Phoenix. I was speaking to retreat in Phoenix. I was speaking to retreat in Phoenix. I was speaking to leaders in Phoenix, and I'm like, "Well, leaders in Phoenix, and I'm like, "Well, leaders in Phoenix, and I'm like, "Well, you're at a resort. You know, I know you're at a resort. You know, I know you're at a resort. You know, I know what I ordered off the menu, but you what I ordered off the menu, but you what I ordered off the menu, but you don't know 100% what's in the food." And don't know 100% what's in the food." And don't know 100% what's in the food." And basically, your your score is a basis of basically, your your score is a basis of basically, your your score is a basis of your heart rate variability, your your heart rate variability, your your heart rate variability, your resting heart rate, your oxygen resting heart rate, your oxygen resting heart rate, your oxygen saturation, all the stuff that you would saturation, all the stuff that you would saturation, all the stuff that you would be like totally up to score on that it be like totally up to score on that it be like totally up to score on that it measures. And then it gives you like a measures. And then it gives you like a measures. And then it gives you like a report card out of a 100, you got an 82 report card out of a 100, you got an 82 report card out of a 100, you got an 82 or you got a 96 or you got a or you got a 96 or you got a or you got a 96 or you got a >> 14 or whatever. And it's cause and >> 14 or whatever. And it's cause and >> 14 or whatever. And it's cause and effect, right? like if you go to bed on effect, right? like if you go to bed on effect, right? like if you go to bed on time, you eat healthy, you do your time, you eat healthy, you do your time, you eat healthy, you do your workout, you're going to get a good workout, you're going to get a good workout, you're going to get a good score. You just know you are. And mine score. You just know you are. And mine score. You just know you are. And mine dropped. And I'm like, I wonder what dropped. And I'm like, I wonder what dropped. And I'm like, I wonder what that is. But again, you're at a resort. that is. But again, you're at a resort. that is. But again, you're at a resort. Like who knows what was Did they slather Like who knows what was Did they slather Like who knows what was Did they slather the steak in butter? I asked them not the steak in butter? I asked them not the steak in butter? I asked them not to, but maybe they did. I don't know. So to, but maybe they did. I don't know. So to, but maybe they did. I don't know. So anyway, I just kind of wrote it off and anyway, I just kind of wrote it off and anyway, I just kind of wrote it off and thought I'll dial back when I get home. thought I'll dial back when I get home. thought I'll dial back when I get home. But I felt fine. But I felt fine. But I felt fine. >> Um and then uh got home and it was uh an >> Um and then uh got home and it was uh an >> Um and then uh got home and it was uh an ice storm that hit our community. Uh, ice storm that hit our community. Uh, ice storm that hit our community. Uh, and it that's impossible for Americans and it that's impossible for Americans and it that's impossible for Americans who are listening. It's like ice storm, who are listening. It's like ice storm, who are listening. It's like ice storm, you got ice. It's like imagine a you got ice. It's like imagine a you got ice. It's like imagine a hurricane went through. Like we had we hurricane went through. Like we had we hurricane went through. Like we had we lost 70% of the trees in our yard.

lost 70% of the trees in our yard. lost 70% of the trees in our yard. You've led cohorts in our backyard. You've led cohorts in our backyard. You've led cohorts in our backyard. >> So literally I've got like guys in the >> So literally I've got like guys in the >> So literally I've got like guys in the back rebuilding my backyard, planting back rebuilding my backyard, planting back rebuilding my backyard, planting brand new trees, all that stuff as we brand new trees, all that stuff as we brand new trees, all that stuff as we record this a couple months later, but I record this a couple months later, but I record this a couple months later, but I came back to what looked like a war came back to what looked like a war came back to what looked like a war zone. And again, my scores didn't zone. And again, my scores didn't zone. And again, my scores didn't recover. So I'm like, well, you know, recover. So I'm like, well, you know, recover. So I'm like, well, you know, I'm pretty stressed. And we had no power I'm pretty stressed. And we had no power I'm pretty stressed. And we had no power for 12 days, no internet for 13, which for 12 days, no internet for 13, which for 12 days, no internet for 13, which was almost worse than having no power was almost worse than having no power was almost worse than having no power because I have a generator. Anyway, because I have a generator. Anyway, because I have a generator. Anyway, >> yeah. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> So, that was the case. And then my son >> So, that was the case. And then my son >> So, that was the case. And then my son and his wife moved back and moved in and his wife moved back and moved in and his wife moved back and moved in with us for a little while. And our with us for a little while. And our with us for a little while. And our mutual friend Mark Clark mutual friend Mark Clark mutual friend Mark Clark >> came and stayed with me for a week. And >> came and stayed with me for a week. And >> came and stayed with me for a week. And you know, with Mark, there's hot tubs you know, with Mark, there's hot tubs you know, with Mark, there's hot tubs late at night and dinners out and stuff late at night and dinners out and stuff late at night and dinners out and stuff like that. And then we recorded this like that. And then we recorded this like that. And then we recorded this course in Toronto, The Art of Preaching, course in Toronto, The Art of Preaching, course in Toronto, The Art of Preaching, which is coming out this fall. And while which is coming out this fall. And while which is coming out this fall. And while all this was going on, my scores were all this was going on, my scores were all this was going on, my scores were not great, but I'm like, well, it's a not great, but I'm like, well, it's a not great, but I'm like, well, it's a weird month. It's a weird month. It's a weird month. It's a weird month. It's a weird month. It's a weird month. It's a weird month. We had an apocalyptic weird month. We had an apocalyptic weird month. We had an apocalyptic storm. You know, I got a house full. storm. You know, I got a house full. storm. You know, I got a house full. We're entertaining all the time. But We're entertaining all the time. But We're entertaining all the time. But then I noticed I was getting weak. Uh, then I noticed I was getting weak. Uh, then I noticed I was getting weak. Uh, and like difficult for me to go up the and like difficult for me to go up the and like difficult for me to go up the stairs. Um, not typical. Uh, we were stairs. Um, not typical. Uh, we were stairs. Um, not typical. Uh, we were getting landscapers in to try to figure getting landscapers in to try to figure getting landscapers in to try to figure out how to rebuild our backyard and get out how to rebuild our backyard and get out how to rebuild our backyard and get the crews in to remove all the dead the crews in to remove all the dead the crews in to remove all the dead trees and the fallen trees. And uh you trees and the fallen trees. And uh you trees and the fallen trees. And uh you know I had to dig out a little patch know I had to dig out a little patch know I had to dig out a little patch over a drain in our yard. 15 seconds of over a drain in our yard. 15 seconds of over a drain in our yard. 15 seconds of spade work and I had to lean against the spade work and I had to lean against the spade work and I had to lean against the spade to catch my breath. I'm like whoa.

spade to catch my breath. I'm like whoa. spade to catch my breath. I'm like whoa. So finally literally the day after Mark So finally literally the day after Mark So finally literally the day after Mark and I finished recording the new art and I finished recording the new art and I finished recording the new art which was weird. We're at the studio in which was weird. We're at the studio in which was weird. We're at the studio in Toronto. I'm giving you the long Toronto. I'm giving you the long Toronto. I'm giving you the long version. version. version. >> I had difficulty getting up the stairs. >> I had difficulty getting up the stairs. >> I had difficulty getting up the stairs. It was a threefloor walk up to the It was a threefloor walk up to the It was a threefloor walk up to the studio which I've shot courses in studio which I've shot courses in studio which I've shot courses in before. It's a beautiful studio. before. It's a beautiful studio. before. It's a beautiful studio. >> It's a brick building. >> It's a brick building. >> It's a brick building. >> A brick building. Jordan Peterson shoots >> A brick building. Jordan Peterson shoots >> A brick building. Jordan Peterson shoots his stuff in there in Toronto, that kind his stuff in there in Toronto, that kind his stuff in there in Toronto, that kind of stuff. So, we went up there of stuff. So, we went up there of stuff. So, we went up there >> and you know, I'm like, I am winded. And >> and you know, I'm like, I am winded. And >> and you know, I'm like, I am winded. And I sat down in the hallway for 2 minutes, I sat down in the hallway for 2 minutes, I sat down in the hallway for 2 minutes, caught my breath, and then I stood up caught my breath, and then I stood up caught my breath, and then I stood up and I shot 10 hours of video on and I shot 10 hours of video on and I shot 10 hours of video on Thursday, 10 hours of video on Friday. Thursday, 10 hours of video on Friday. Thursday, 10 hours of video on Friday. No problem. Lots of muscle memory, clear No problem. Lots of muscle memory, clear No problem. Lots of muscle memory, clear mind. And but by the time Mark and I mind. And but by the time Mark and I mind. And but by the time Mark and I went for dinner after, I'm like, "Oh, went for dinner after, I'm like, "Oh, went for dinner after, I'm like, "Oh, dude, I'm tired. I got to go to bed." It dude, I'm tired. I got to go to bed." It dude, I'm tired. I got to go to bed." It was like 8:00 or whatever. So, you know, was like 8:00 or whatever. So, you know, was like 8:00 or whatever. So, you know, but got up and did it. The next day, but got up and did it. The next day, but got up and did it. The next day, Mark had other stuff to do. Tony was Mark had other stuff to do. Tony was Mark had other stuff to do. Tony was gone somewhere and it was a crappy day gone somewhere and it was a crappy day gone somewhere and it was a crappy day weather-wise, and I thought, I'm going weather-wise, and I thought, I'm going weather-wise, and I thought, I'm going to go into Emerge and just get checked to go into Emerge and just get checked to go into Emerge and just get checked like just in case, but I probably would like just in case, but I probably would like just in case, but I probably would have skipped it if it was a nice day and have skipped it if it was a nice day and have skipped it if it was a nice day and I would have done something else. So, I I would have done something else. So, I I would have done something else. So, I get to Emerge and they're like, well, get to Emerge and they're like, well, get to Emerge and they're like, well, uh, you don't want this designation, but uh, you don't want this designation, but uh, you don't want this designation, but you are the most interesting patient in you are the most interesting patient in you are the most interesting patient in the hospital. I'm like, what does that the hospital. I'm like, what does that the hospital. I'm like, what does that mean? And they're like, oh, it's not mean? And they're like, oh, it's not mean? And they're like, oh, it's not good. Uh, we're all puzzling over you.

good. Uh, we're all puzzling over you. good. Uh, we're all puzzling over you. They did enough blood work on me to fill They did enough blood work on me to fill They did enough blood work on me to fill Dracula's castle with blood. Like, it Dracula's castle with blood. Like, it Dracula's castle with blood. Like, it was insane. They drew vial after vial was insane. They drew vial after vial was insane. They drew vial after vial after vial. And they I'd never heard of after vial. And they I'd never heard of after vial. And they I'd never heard of a hemoglobin other than maybe in a movie a hemoglobin other than maybe in a movie a hemoglobin other than maybe in a movie or something like that. And they're or something like that. And they're or something like that. And they're like, "Your hemoglobin is 69." And I'm like, "Your hemoglobin is 69." And I'm like, "Your hemoglobin is 69." And I'm like, "What does that mean?" And they're like, "What does that mean?" And they're like, "What does that mean?" And they're like, "Well, in a normal male your size, like, "Well, in a normal male your size, like, "Well, in a normal male your size, uh, it's 135 to 175." I'm like, "So uh, it's 135 to 175." I'm like, "So uh, it's 135 to 175." I'm like, "So that's bad, right?" And they're like, that's bad, right?" And they're like, that's bad, right?" And they're like, "Yeah, it's really bad." And they're "Yeah, it's really bad." And they're "Yeah, it's really bad." And they're like your hemoglobin, your red blood like your hemoglobin, your red blood like your hemoglobin, your red blood cells, they carry oxygen and nutrients cells, they carry oxygen and nutrients cells, they carry oxygen and nutrients to your entire body. And if you go 10 to your entire body. And if you go 10 to your entire body. And if you go 10 points lower, I would learn the next day points lower, I would learn the next day points lower, I would learn the next day it's like, welcome to your heart attack it's like, welcome to your heart attack it's like, welcome to your heart attack or stroke. Like basically your body or stroke. Like basically your body or stroke. Like basically your body stops functioning. stops functioning. stops functioning. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> And I was like, oh, so this is serious. >> And I was like, oh, so this is serious. >> And I was like, oh, so this is serious. And I'm like, but I feel okay other than And I'm like, but I feel okay other than And I'm like, but I feel okay other than a little bit weak. and they're like, a little bit weak. and they're like, a little bit weak. and they're like, "Yeah, you should be lying on the couch "Yeah, you should be lying on the couch "Yeah, you should be lying on the couch calling an ambulance, but because you've calling an ambulance, but because you've calling an ambulance, but because you've been working out so much and you're been working out so much and you're been working out so much and you're generally a healthy 60-year-old male generally a healthy 60-year-old male generally a healthy 60-year-old male specimen, you're able to push through specimen, you're able to push through specimen, you're able to push through all this stuff, all this stuff, all this stuff, >> comparable to leaders. There you go."

>> comparable to leaders. There you go." >> comparable to leaders. There you go." >> And they said, "So, if you had let this >> And they said, "So, if you had let this >> And they said, "So, if you had let this go a little bit more, it could have been go a little bit more, it could have been go a little bit more, it could have been really bad." So, there's a number of really bad." So, there's a number of really bad." So, there's a number of different theories. One is your body different theories. One is your body different theories. One is your body stops producing the red blood cells. stops producing the red blood cells. stops producing the red blood cells. They did a lot of extensive testing. I'm They did a lot of extensive testing. I'm They did a lot of extensive testing. I'm producing a lot of great red blood producing a lot of great red blood producing a lot of great red blood cells, but something happened probably cells, but something happened probably cells, but something happened probably in Phoenix according to my Aura ring and in Phoenix according to my Aura ring and in Phoenix according to my Aura ring and they took the data fairly seriously as they took the data fairly seriously as they took the data fairly seriously as doctors. I had a whole team like eight doctors. I had a whole team like eight doctors. I had a whole team like eight or nine working on me or nine working on me or nine working on me >> and they're like, you know, you get >> and they're like, you know, you get >> and they're like, you know, you get exposed to viruses every day. You get, exposed to viruses every day. You get, exposed to viruses every day. You get, you know, exposed to a cold or a flu or you know, exposed to a cold or a flu or you know, exposed to a cold or a flu or you get a spider bite or something like you get a spider bite or something like you get a spider bite or something like that. Your body fights it off. Your that. Your body fights it off. Your that. Your body fights it off. Your immune system for some unknown reason immune system for some unknown reason immune system for some unknown reason decided red blood cells were bad guys decided red blood cells were bad guys decided red blood cells were bad guys and started destroying them. And over and started destroying them. And over and started destroying them. And over the month, that's why your scores were the month, that's why your scores were the month, that's why your scores were so low. They were destroying them and so low. They were destroying them and so low. They were destroying them and you don't have enough red blood cells. you don't have enough red blood cells. you don't have enough red blood cells. So, what they did was they put me on a So, what they did was they put me on a So, what they did was they put me on a massive dose of prennazone. And uh if massive dose of prennazone. And uh if massive dose of prennazone. And uh if you know anything, we've talked about you know anything, we've talked about you know anything, we've talked about it. 90, dude. 90. it. 90, dude. 90. it. 90, dude. 90. >> Jeez. >> Jeez. >> Jeez. >> Yeah. Every doctor I've talked to or >> Yeah. Every doctor I've talked to or >> Yeah. Every doctor I've talked to or medical person is like, "Are you kidding medical person is like, "Are you kidding medical person is like, "Are you kidding me? 90?" Like, people get nine. They me? 90?" Like, people get nine. They me? 90?" Like, people get nine. They gave me 90. So that made me clinically gave me 90. So that made me clinically gave me 90. So that made me clinically um like I I want to be careful what I'm um like I I want to be careful what I'm um like I I want to be careful what I'm saying, but I felt insane in hours for saying, but I felt insane in hours for saying, but I felt insane in hours for certain points of time. Like it wrecks.

certain points of time. Like it wrecks. certain points of time. Like it wrecks. Prennazone is a miracle drug. I've Prennazone is a miracle drug. I've Prennazone is a miracle drug. I've learned so much that was invented in the learned so much that was invented in the learned so much that was invented in the 50s, kept a lot of people alive, still 50s, kept a lot of people alive, still 50s, kept a lot of people alive, still keeps a lot of people alive, but it has keeps a lot of people alive, but it has keeps a lot of people alive, but it has side effects the length of side effects the length of side effects the length of >> Wikipedia. Like it's huge. And so for me >> Wikipedia. Like it's huge. And so for me >> Wikipedia. Like it's huge. And so for me it was like I take my pills in the it was like I take my pills in the it was like I take my pills in the morning and they're starting to taper me morning and they're starting to taper me morning and they're starting to taper me as we record this which is good. So the as we record this which is good. So the as we record this which is good. So the long story short TLDDR long story short TLDDR long story short TLDDR >> yeah you can't just go off it because >> yeah you can't just go off it because >> yeah you can't just go off it because >> not going to kill your body or >> not going to kill your body or >> not going to kill your body or something. So anyway they they spiked something. So anyway they they spiked something. So anyway they they spiked me. I was on that massive dose for 6 me. I was on that massive dose for 6 me. I was on that massive dose for 6 weeks and now we're eight weeks into weeks and now we're eight weeks into weeks and now we're eight weeks into this illness as we record it. So the this illness as we record it. So the this illness as we record it. So the good news is my hemoglobin's almost good news is my hemoglobin's almost good news is my hemoglobin's almost normal. It's within two points of normal. It's within two points of normal. It's within two points of normal. All the other levels are coming normal. All the other levels are coming normal. All the other levels are coming back. The therapy is working. we don't back. The therapy is working. we don't back. The therapy is working. we don't know whether it's worked but now as they know whether it's worked but now as they know whether it's worked but now as they reduce the drug reduce the drug reduce the drug >> um they're going to find out whether my >> um they're going to find out whether my >> um they're going to find out whether my immune system it's almost like rebooting immune system it's almost like rebooting immune system it's almost like rebooting your computer your computer your computer >> right >> right >> right >> like okay this time it's going to work >> like okay this time it's going to work >> like okay this time it's going to work and the program is going to open so and the program is going to open so and the program is going to open so after the reboot as we you know get rid after the reboot as we you know get rid after the reboot as we you know get rid of the prennazone from my body hopefully of the prennazone from my body hopefully of the prennazone from my body hopefully my immune system is like oh red blood my immune system is like oh red blood my immune system is like oh red blood cells you're nice people we will leave cells you're nice people we will leave cells you're nice people we will leave you alone and go fight the bad guys you alone and go fight the bad guys you alone and go fight the bad guys >> so that's a theory and >> so that's a theory and >> so that's a theory and >> the good news is I'm getting better the >> the good news is I'm getting better the >> the good news is I'm getting better the weird part is the drugs were almost weird part is the drugs were almost weird part is the drugs were almost worse worse than than the disease.

worse worse than than the disease. worse worse than than the disease. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Like >> Like >> Like 90 milligrams. Wow. 90 milligrams. Wow. 90 milligrams. Wow. >> Yeah. That's crazy. So they're like I've >> Yeah. That's crazy. So they're like I've >> Yeah. That's crazy. So they're like I've had great doctors. So but it's a bit of had great doctors. So but it's a bit of had great doctors. So but it's a bit of a reset. You know, you go into 60 a reset. You know, you go into 60 a reset. You know, you go into 60 feeling so excited, so strong. My wife feeling so excited, so strong. My wife feeling so excited, so strong. My wife and kids threw me a surprise birthday and kids threw me a surprise birthday and kids threw me a surprise birthday party. Just some friends and family at party. Just some friends and family at party. Just some friends and family at my favorite restaurant. It was like epic my favorite restaurant. It was like epic my favorite restaurant. It was like epic milestone. milestone. milestone. >> And then all of a sudden, whoop. >> And then all of a sudden, whoop. >> And then all of a sudden, whoop. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Literally 5 weeks later, I'm in a >> Literally 5 weeks later, I'm in a >> Literally 5 weeks later, I'm in a hospital bed admitted overnight. So, hospital bed admitted overnight. So, hospital bed admitted overnight. So, >> didn't see it coming. >> didn't see it coming. >> didn't see it coming. >> Didn't see it coming, man. Yeah, that'd >> Didn't see it coming, man. Yeah, that'd >> Didn't see it coming, man. Yeah, that'd be a good book title one day, you know, be a good book title one day, you know, be a good book title one day, you know, if you could do it. So, it looks like if you could do it. So, it looks like if you could do it. So, it looks like I'm gonna be okay. It looks like But it I'm gonna be okay. It looks like But it I'm gonna be okay. It looks like But it really makes you rethink everything. really makes you rethink everything. really makes you rethink everything. Particularly when they tell you, you Particularly when they tell you, you Particularly when they tell you, you know, 10 points more and it could be know, 10 points more and it could be know, 10 points more and it could be that could be the end. that could be the end. that could be the end. >> Yeah, cuz your body is getting no >> Yeah, cuz your body is getting no >> Yeah, cuz your body is getting no nutrients to even just function at that. nutrients to even just function at that. nutrients to even just function at that. >> No, your heart won't won't beat anymore >> No, your heart won't won't beat anymore >> No, your heart won't won't beat anymore or you get a a stroke. So, or you get a a stroke. So, or you get a a stroke. So, >> and that could be, you know, >> and that could be, you know, >> and that could be, you know, debilitating or it could be life-ending, debilitating or it could be life-ending, debilitating or it could be life-ending, but neither was realized. but neither was realized. but neither was realized. >> So, you and I were a couple of phone >> So, you and I were a couple of phone >> So, you and I were a couple of phone calls and texts uh over week to week calls and texts uh over week to week calls and texts uh over week to week sort of stuff, and you had said sort of stuff, and you had said sort of stuff, and you had said something to me. Um, well, I'll tell you something to me. Um, well, I'll tell you something to me. Um, well, I'll tell you something. So, Stacy and I were talking something. So, Stacy and I were talking something. So, Stacy and I were talking and I was like, "Yeah, Carrie, it's and I was like, "Yeah, Carrie, it's and I was like, "Yeah, Carrie, it's scary for me right now cuz Carrie's in scary for me right now cuz Carrie's in scary for me right now cuz Carrie's in great shape. He takes care of himself great shape. He takes care of himself great shape. He takes care of himself and he's got the ability to push and and he's got the ability to push and and he's got the ability to push and like he can he's just a machine in some like he can he's just a machine in some like he can he's just a machine in some ways, you know, like he's he's like he's ways, you know, like he's he's like he's ways, you know, like he's he's like he's a bion he's the bionic pastor and so

a bion he's the bionic pastor and so a bion he's the bionic pastor and so obviously the there's that thing the obviously the there's that thing the obviously the there's that thing the body keeps score or whatever and I was body keeps score or whatever and I was body keeps score or whatever and I was like so he can I think he could fire up like so he can I think he could fire up like so he can I think he could fire up a couple extra cylinders if he really a couple extra cylinders if he really a couple extra cylinders if he really needed to. So, he's kind of like in this needed to. So, he's kind of like in this needed to. So, he's kind of like in this stage where maybe there's some stage where maybe there's some stage where maybe there's some cumulative effect of things. So, Stacy cumulative effect of things. So, Stacy cumulative effect of things. So, Stacy and I were talking about that because and I were talking about that because and I were talking about that because I'm I I'm in my early 50s now. I just I'm I I'm in my early 50s now. I just I'm I I'm in my early 50s now. I just turned um well, I'm about ready to turn turned um well, I'm about ready to turn turned um well, I'm about ready to turn 52. 52. 52. >> Uh probably by the time this airs and um >> Uh probably by the time this airs and um >> Uh probably by the time this airs and um I notice like I don't have the battery I notice like I don't have the battery I notice like I don't have the battery that I used to. And in some ways it's that I used to. And in some ways it's that I used to. And in some ways it's demoralizing to feel your age. Um demoralizing to feel your age. Um demoralizing to feel your age. Um you were talking with uh your interview you were talking with uh your interview you were talking with uh your interview with um John Eldridge was incredible. with um John Eldridge was incredible. with um John Eldridge was incredible. You guys talked about how in our culture You guys talked about how in our culture You guys talked about how in our culture we we worship youth and I was like oh we we worship youth and I was like oh we we worship youth and I was like oh yeah nailed it. yeah nailed it. yeah nailed it. >> Um and so I'm like in some ways it's >> Um and so I'm like in some ways it's >> Um and so I'm like in some ways it's demoralizing but I always am a huge fan demoralizing but I always am a huge fan demoralizing but I always am a huge fan of you know the the opport the obstacle of you know the the opport the obstacle of you know the the opport the obstacle is the way um the obstacle is the is the way um the obstacle is the is the way um the obstacle is the opportunity thinking. And so it's like opportunity thinking. And so it's like opportunity thinking. And so it's like but the opportunity is to focus and to but the opportunity is to focus and to but the opportunity is to focus and to get more out of the things that are most get more out of the things that are most get more out of the things that are most important with some intentionality and important with some intentionality and important with some intentionality and all that. Um and so then I was you and I all that. Um and so then I was you and I all that. Um and so then I was you and I were engaging and you told me I think were engaging and you told me I think were engaging and you told me I think you and Craig had connected and you'd you and Craig had connected and you'd you and Craig had connected and you'd gone through some exercises together and gone through some exercises together and gone through some exercises together and you found 29 you found 29 you found 29 what did you what were the category of what did you what were the category of what did you what were the category of the the the >> I'm glad we're talking about this and >> I'm glad we're talking about this and >> I'm glad we're talking about this and I'm not glad we're talking about this.

I'm not glad we're talking about this. I'm not glad we're talking about this. Yeah. So before two weeks before I went Yeah. So before two weeks before I went Yeah. So before two weeks before I went to the hospital, to the hospital, to the hospital, >> you know, we'd had we had the year to >> you know, we'd had we had the year to >> you know, we'd had we had the year to end all years. There was a lot going on. end all years. There was a lot going on. end all years. There was a lot going on. I'll go into some of that. And I brought I'll go into some of that. And I brought I'll go into some of that. And I brought Gchelle Craig Relle's book, Winning the Gchelle Craig Relle's book, Winning the Gchelle Craig Relle's book, Winning the War on Your Mind, to this right War on Your Mind, to this right War on Your Mind, to this right all-inclusive. This is to give you an all-inclusive. This is to give you an all-inclusive. This is to give you an idea of my life. This is the third idea of my life. This is the third idea of my life. This is the third all-inclusive I've ever done in my whole all-inclusive I've ever done in my whole all-inclusive I've ever done in my whole life, I think, if I'm counting right. So life, I think, if I'm counting right. So life, I think, if I'm counting right. So it's not typical. It was just my wife it's not typical. It was just my wife it's not typical. It was just my wife Tony and I went to Kurissowl, little Tony and I went to Kurissowl, little Tony and I went to Kurissowl, little island in the Caribbean, and we had the island in the Caribbean, and we had the island in the Caribbean, and we had the best time. And I was, you know, I was best time. And I was, you know, I was best time. And I was, you know, I was not getting great scores, but I was not getting great scores, but I was not getting great scores, but I was feeling fine dayto-day. I had no idea feeling fine dayto-day. I had no idea feeling fine dayto-day. I had no idea anything was wrong with me. And so I'm anything was wrong with me. And so I'm anything was wrong with me. And so I'm reading Winning the War in Your Mind and reading Winning the War in Your Mind and reading Winning the War in Your Mind and I think it's chapter 10 and like I I think it's chapter 10 and like I I think it's chapter 10 and like I reached out to Craig and I'm like, "Oh reached out to Craig and I'm like, "Oh reached out to Craig and I'm like, "Oh my goodness." He talks about his 2019. I my goodness." He talks about his 2019. I my goodness." He talks about his 2019. I remember seeing him in London. He was remember seeing him in London. He was remember seeing him in London. He was speaking at leadership conference that speaking at leadership conference that speaking at leadership conference that year and I mean he was just going. He year and I mean he was just going. He year and I mean he was just going. He had something like 25 talks in five had something like 25 talks in five had something like 25 talks in five cities and then stuff was happening at cities and then stuff was happening at cities and then stuff was happening at home where I'm paraphrasing here, but home where I'm paraphrasing here, but home where I'm paraphrasing here, but like there was an animal in the attic like there was an animal in the attic like there was an animal in the attic and somebody's car broke and then a rat and somebody's car broke and then a rat and somebody's car broke and then a rat got into one of his kids' cars. Like it got into one of his kids' cars. Like it got into one of his kids' cars. Like it was just this catastrophe of whatever.

was just this catastrophe of whatever. was just this catastrophe of whatever. And I'm sitting there at the beach cuz I And I'm sitting there at the beach cuz I And I'm sitting there at the beach cuz I I have trouble unplugging, you know, at I have trouble unplugging, you know, at I have trouble unplugging, you know, at the best of times. And I'm reading the best of times. And I'm reading the best of times. And I'm reading Craig's book. And then I start taking Craig's book. And then I start taking Craig's book. And then I start taking notes and I'm like, "Hey, the last 14 notes and I'm like, "Hey, the last 14 notes and I'm like, "Hey, the last 14 months have been abnormally difficult." months have been abnormally difficult." months have been abnormally difficult." And actually Craig and I share a And actually Craig and I share a And actually Craig and I share a performance psychologist, performance performance psychologist, performance performance psychologist, performance coach, Dr. Wayne Chappelle, who he's coach, Dr. Wayne Chappelle, who he's coach, Dr. Wayne Chappelle, who he's writing his new book with. So we're writing his new book with. So we're writing his new book with. So we're always, you know, back and forth always, you know, back and forth always, you know, back and forth comparing notes. And Dr. Chappelle, if comparing notes. And Dr. Chappelle, if comparing notes. And Dr. Chappelle, if you're listening, thank you, is on me you're listening, thank you, is on me you're listening, thank you, is on me about, hey, you're 60, you need to slow about, hey, you're 60, you need to slow about, hey, you're 60, you need to slow down. Like, you're not a rookie NBA down. Like, you're not a rookie NBA down. Like, you're not a rookie NBA player. You're you're a veteran. You player. You're you're a veteran. You player. You're you're a veteran. You can't you can't have the game points can't you can't have the game points can't you can't have the game points that you used to have. and he knows that you used to have. and he knows that you used to have. and he knows this, but I'm kind of resisting Dr. this, but I'm kind of resisting Dr. this, but I'm kind of resisting Dr. Chappelle going, "Eh, Chappelle going, "Eh, Chappelle going, "Eh, >> I don't know that the rules apply to >> I don't know that the rules apply to >> I don't know that the rules apply to me." I I think we're fine. Like, leave me." I I think we're fine. Like, leave me." I I think we're fine. Like, leave me alone. See what I was talking about? me alone. See what I was talking about? me alone. See what I was talking about? I think that's I think this is the end I think that's I think this is the end I think that's I think this is the end of uh our session today, Dr. C. No, but of uh our session today, Dr. C. No, but of uh our session today, Dr. C. No, but you know, I've given him polite push you know, I've given him polite push you know, I've given him polite push back and he's he's really been helpful back and he's he's really been helpful back and he's he's really been helpful to me. So, I'm reading chapter 10 to me. So, I'm reading chapter 10 to me. So, I'm reading chapter 10 >> and I thought, I wonder if I've had like >> and I thought, I wonder if I've had like >> and I thought, I wonder if I've had like some external stressors in the last This some external stressors in the last This some external stressors in the last This is internal versus external. So, you is internal versus external. So, you is internal versus external. So, you know, didn't see it coming and at your know, didn't see it coming and at your know, didn't see it coming and at your best. My last two books are all about best. My last two books are all about best. My last two books are all about the internal battle of a leader. And the internal battle of a leader. And the internal battle of a leader. And I've had a honestly a pretty good life.

I've had a honestly a pretty good life. I've had a honestly a pretty good life. Um, and so as far as external stress, Um, and so as far as external stress, Um, and so as far as external stress, I'm an enog 8. I don't feel it the way I'm an enog 8. I don't feel it the way I'm an enog 8. I don't feel it the way empaths do or a four would or you know, empaths do or a four would or you know, empaths do or a four would or you know, someone who's got a real shepherd's someone who's got a real shepherd's someone who's got a real shepherd's heart. Like if I get an angry email, I heart. Like if I get an angry email, I heart. Like if I get an angry email, I can usually get over it in about three can usually get over it in about three can usually get over it in about three minutes. Um, or if it's worst case three minutes. Um, or if it's worst case three minutes. Um, or if it's worst case three days. But as I'm reading through chapter days. But as I'm reading through chapter days. But as I'm reading through chapter 10 of of Craig's book, I start to 10 of of Craig's book, I start to 10 of of Craig's book, I start to journal. Well, how many external journal. Well, how many external journal. Well, how many external stressors have I had stressors have I had stressors have I had >> in the last and in that case, the >> in the last and in that case, the >> in the last and in that case, the timeline was 14 months. timeline was 14 months. timeline was 14 months. >> It was 29. And it blew me away. >> It was 29. And it blew me away. >> It was 29. And it blew me away. Everything from my father-in-law dying Everything from my father-in-law dying Everything from my father-in-law dying to navigating his funeral, which is to navigating his funeral, which is to navigating his funeral, which is never easy, to my parents both having never easy, to my parents both having never easy, to my parents both having significant health challenges, my dad significant health challenges, my dad significant health challenges, my dad being diagnosed last summer with de being diagnosed last summer with de being diagnosed last summer with de dementia, dementia, dementia, >> moving them out of this beautiful condo >> moving them out of this beautiful condo >> moving them out of this beautiful condo they live for 25 years near the they live for 25 years near the they live for 25 years near the waterfront and Barry into assisted waterfront and Barry into assisted waterfront and Barry into assisted living, you know, long-term care, not living, you know, long-term care, not living, you know, long-term care, not long-term care, but retirement residents long-term care, but retirement residents long-term care, but retirement residents with help, with help, with help, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> And, you know, that's not an easy >> And, you know, that's not an easy >> And, you know, that's not an easy journey. And then I've got three sisters journey. And then I've got three sisters journey. And then I've got three sisters that we weren't all in sync every step that we weren't all in sync every step that we weren't all in sync every step of the way. At the same time, selling of the way. At the same time, selling of the way. At the same time, selling the family cottage that's been in Tony's the family cottage that's been in Tony's the family cottage that's been in Tony's property where her mom lived for 70 property where her mom lived for 70 property where her mom lived for 70 years years years and having to declutter my late and having to declutter my late and having to declutter my late father-in-law's collection of treasures father-in-law's collection of treasures father-in-law's collection of treasures from the last 80 years, which by the way from the last 80 years, which by the way from the last 80 years, which by the way was about 10 tons of stuff. It wasn't was about 10 tons of stuff. It wasn't was about 10 tons of stuff. It wasn't hoarders. It was just so much work. and hoarders. It was just so much work. and hoarders. It was just so much work. and so much stress trying to get that family so much stress trying to get that family so much stress trying to get that family to agree. And there were family dynamics

to agree. And there were family dynamics to agree. And there were family dynamics in that. And then, you know, I'd come in that. And then, you know, I'd come in that. And then, you know, I'd come home from Phoenix and have my entire home from Phoenix and have my entire home from Phoenix and have my entire yard, which is a sanctuary, destroyed by yard, which is a sanctuary, destroyed by yard, which is a sanctuary, destroyed by God, by nature. Um, having to rebuild God, by nature. Um, having to rebuild God, by nature. Um, having to rebuild that. Uh, being without power, being that. Uh, being without power, being that. Uh, being without power, being without internet. I mean, it just went without internet. I mean, it just went without internet. I mean, it just went on and on. And there were little things on and on. And there were little things on and on. And there were little things on the list, too. Not like traffic was on the list, too. Not like traffic was on the list, too. Not like traffic was slow today, but like even the studio. I slow today, but like even the studio. I slow today, but like even the studio. I finally finished rebooting the studio. I finally finished rebooting the studio. I finally finished rebooting the studio. I had an old iMac that was crashing all had an old iMac that was crashing all had an old iMac that was crashing all the time. And we had um a company sale the time. And we had um a company sale the time. And we had um a company sale earlier this year, merger partnership earlier this year, merger partnership earlier this year, merger partnership with Glue. So you can't really make any with Glue. So you can't really make any with Glue. So you can't really make any capital purchases at a time like that. capital purchases at a time like that. capital purchases at a time like that. So I'm like, I just got to get to the So I'm like, I just got to get to the So I'm like, I just got to get to the other side of this. other side of this. other side of this. >> Be really stable. >> Be really stable. >> Be really stable. >> You got to be so stable. And I'm like, >> You got to be so stable. And I'm like, >> You got to be so stable. And I'm like, okay, finally I can buy a new iMac. okay, finally I can buy a new iMac. okay, finally I can buy a new iMac. Okay, great. You know, and all this Okay, great. You know, and all this Okay, great. You know, and all this stuff. So now I got my dream studio. It stuff. So now I got my dream studio. It stuff. So now I got my dream studio. It all works. Like all the technology all works. Like all the technology all works. Like all the technology works, all that stuff. So as we're works, all that stuff. So as we're works, all that stuff. So as we're recording this, I think I've got six recording this, I think I've got six recording this, I think I've got six ongoing stressors maybe of the 29. ongoing stressors maybe of the 29. ongoing stressors maybe of the 29. Everything else is in the rearview Everything else is in the rearview Everything else is in the rearview mirror and like we're not moving my mirror and like we're not moving my mirror and like we're not moving my parents to a retirement home again this parents to a retirement home again this parents to a retirement home again this year. This is like we did all the year. This is like we did all the year. This is like we did all the research, it's done. This is their spot research, it's done. This is their spot research, it's done. This is their spot for the indefinite future. Same with my for the indefinite future. Same with my for the indefinite future. Same with my mother-in-law. Like all that stuff is in mother-in-law. Like all that stuff is in mother-in-law. Like all that stuff is in the rearview mirror, but all came up at the rearview mirror, but all came up at the rearview mirror, but all came up at once. And I felt and I think we talked once. And I felt and I think we talked once. And I felt and I think we talked about this like I was in the boxing ring about this like I was in the boxing ring about this like I was in the boxing ring and I got a hit to the head and I'm like and I got a hit to the head and I'm like and I got a hit to the head and I'm like that's okay. And then I got a hit to the that's okay. And then I got a hit to the that's okay. And then I got a hit to the gut and then another hit to the gut and gut and then another hit to the gut and gut and then another hit to the gut and then another hit to the head and then I then another hit to the head and then I then another hit to the head and then I got knocked down and then I got back up got knocked down and then I got back up got knocked down and then I got back up and then I got hit again and again and and then I got hit again and again and and then I got hit again and again and again and eventually you know so around again and eventually you know so around again and eventually you know so around the time of the hospital this all hits a the time of the hospital this all hits a the time of the hospital this all hits a head. Now the psychologists say so the

head. Now the psychologists say so the head. Now the psychologists say so the stress caused this. Nine doctors later stress caused this. Nine doctors later stress caused this. Nine doctors later they're like this is not stress related. they're like this is not stress related. they're like this is not stress related. So maybe that's an issue in heaven. But So maybe that's an issue in heaven. But So maybe that's an issue in heaven. But it even Sean I mean we can go wherever it even Sean I mean we can go wherever it even Sean I mean we can go wherever cuz leaders I mean maybe your God didn't cuz leaders I mean maybe your God didn't cuz leaders I mean maybe your God didn't strike your backyard. I'm kidding. you strike your backyard. I'm kidding. you strike your backyard. I'm kidding. you know, you have an idol and then God know, you have an idol and then God know, you have an idol and then God takes it away, so you just rebuild it. takes it away, so you just rebuild it. takes it away, so you just rebuild it. So, that's what we're doing right now. So, that's what we're doing right now. So, that's what we're doing right now. Hopefully, this one doesn't get Hopefully, this one doesn't get Hopefully, this one doesn't get destroyed. Um, but anyway, destroyed. Um, but anyway, destroyed. Um, but anyway, >> oh, that's the first time I've heard you >> oh, that's the first time I've heard you >> oh, that's the first time I've heard you you frame up the backyard as an idol. you frame up the backyard as an idol. you frame up the backyard as an idol. >> You know what? It's a sanctuary. And >> You know what? It's a sanctuary. And >> You know what? It's a sanctuary. And most of us who have been at this for a most of us who have been at this for a most of us who have been at this for a little while, we have a favorite spot, a little while, we have a favorite spot, a little while, we have a favorite spot, a favorite chair, a favorite thing that we favorite chair, a favorite thing that we favorite chair, a favorite thing that we do that is just kind of like, okay, the do that is just kind of like, okay, the do that is just kind of like, okay, the world's on fire, but I'm at peace. And world's on fire, but I'm at peace. And world's on fire, but I'm at peace. And for me, that was my backyard. And for me, that was my backyard. And for me, that was my backyard. And >> yeah, for sure >> yeah, for sure >> yeah, for sure >> it was great. >> it was great. >> it was great. >> It's been that for me many times. >> It's been that for me many times. >> It's been that for me many times. >> Yes, I know. And for lots of leaders who >> Yes, I know. And for lots of leaders who >> Yes, I know. And for lots of leaders who come up here and we hang out. And so now come up here and we hang out. And so now come up here and we hang out. And so now we're rebuilding it, you know, and we're rebuilding it, you know, and we're rebuilding it, you know, and submitting it to God. It's good. But submitting it to God. It's good. But submitting it to God. It's good. But there was a period where I felt like I there was a period where I felt like I there was a period where I felt like I was in the book of Job. was in the book of Job. was in the book of Job. >> And I'm like, I just need some boils on >> And I'm like, I just need some boils on >> And I'm like, I just need some boils on my body. And then, believe it or not, I my body. And then, believe it or not, I my body. And then, believe it or not, I got a boil on my body after I got out of got a boil on my body after I got out of got a boil on my body after I got out of the hospital. I'm like, okay, well, I am the hospital. I'm like, okay, well, I am the hospital. I'm like, okay, well, I am in the book of Job. But I was processing in the book of Job. But I was processing in the book of Job. But I was processing this with Dr. Chappelle and I'm like, this with Dr. Chappelle and I'm like, this with Dr. Chappelle and I'm like, you know what? Like, at least the book you know what? Like, at least the book you know what? Like, at least the book of Job ends. Like there's only 42 of Job ends. Like there's only 42 of Job ends. Like there's only 42 chapters. That's good. And so I feel chapters. That's good. And so I feel chapters. That's good. And so I feel like we're toward the end or at the end like we're toward the end or at the end like we're toward the end or at the end of the book of Job. And I didn't lose of the book of Job. And I didn't lose of the book of Job. And I didn't lose now. I lost my father-in-law, but I now. I lost my father-in-law, but I now. I lost my father-in-law, but I didn't lose my children. I didn't lose didn't lose my children. I didn't lose didn't lose my children. I didn't lose my wife. I didn't My house didn't burn my wife. I didn't My house didn't burn my wife. I didn't My house didn't burn down. And there are a lot of people down. And there are a lot of people down. And there are a lot of people dealing with a lot less. But the point dealing with a lot less. But the point dealing with a lot less. But the point is, when the hits keep coming, what

is, when the hits keep coming, what is, when the hits keep coming, what happens? And it got me to the point happens? And it got me to the point happens? And it got me to the point where prior the week prior to going in where prior the week prior to going in where prior the week prior to going in the hospital, I was like, am I burning the hospital, I was like, am I burning the hospital, I was like, am I burning out? You and I had that conversation. out? You and I had that conversation. out? You and I had that conversation. Like we got together in Atlanta in Like we got together in Atlanta in Like we got together in Atlanta in October and I knew something was off. October and I knew something was off. October and I knew something was off. There was a few of us who do what we do There was a few of us who do what we do There was a few of us who do what we do that hid in a corner from everybody else that hid in a corner from everybody else that hid in a corner from everybody else there and just kind of had dinner one there and just kind of had dinner one there and just kind of had dinner one night cuz I was at the end of my night cuz I was at the end of my night cuz I was at the end of my capacity to have conversations with capacity to have conversations with capacity to have conversations with people I didn't know. people I didn't know. people I didn't know. >> It's like let's just gather the people I >> It's like let's just gather the people I >> It's like let's just gather the people I know and let's let's have a good time know and let's let's have a good time know and let's let's have a good time and that kind of thing. So and that kind of thing. So and that kind of thing. So >> the cracks were showing but I'm like >> the cracks were showing but I'm like >> the cracks were showing but I'm like what is this I didn't know but I wasn't what is this I didn't know but I wasn't what is this I didn't know but I wasn't keeping a running list. Oh yeah, you keeping a running list. Oh yeah, you keeping a running list. Oh yeah, you just had number 13 of 29 just had number 13 of 29 just had number 13 of 29 >> that are coming happen this week. So it >> that are coming happen this week. So it >> that are coming happen this week. So it really did catch me by surprise. But the really did catch me by surprise. But the really did catch me by surprise. But the good news is when you end up in the good news is when you end up in the good news is when you end up in the hospital and there's nothing to do, hospital and there's nothing to do, hospital and there's nothing to do, >> you realize whether you're stirred up >> you realize whether you're stirred up >> you realize whether you're stirred up inside or whether you're at peace. And inside or whether you're at peace. And inside or whether you're at peace. And as soon as the cacaphony on the outside as soon as the cacaphony on the outside as soon as the cacaphony on the outside stopped, I was like, "Oh, I'm not at war stopped, I was like, "Oh, I'm not at war stopped, I was like, "Oh, I'm not at war inside. I'm pretty happy." I mean, inside. I'm pretty happy." I mean, inside. I'm pretty happy." I mean, hopefully I don't die. That would be hopefully I don't die. That would be hopefully I don't die. That would be nice. Um but I nice. Um but I nice. Um but I >> yeah that was the marked difference in >> yeah that was the marked difference in >> yeah that was the marked difference in that conversation around is this another that conversation around is this another that conversation around is this another form of burnout. You were like no that form of burnout. You were like no that form of burnout. You were like no that was like I was starting to really was like I was starting to really was like I was starting to really entertain that question because I was entertain that question because I was entertain that question because I was more emotional. I remember a more emotional. I remember a more emotional. I remember a conversation I had with my kids and my conversation I had with my kids and my conversation I had with my kids and my boys and I just started crying which is boys and I just started crying which is boys and I just started crying which is not typical for me. Uh you know they not typical for me. Uh you know they not typical for me. Uh you know they were putting their arms around me going were putting their arms around me going were putting their arms around me going dad are you okay? And my honest answer dad are you okay? And my honest answer dad are you okay? And my honest answer was I don't know. But what I realized was I don't know. But what I realized was I don't know. But what I realized was those were external stressors. And

was those were external stressors. And was those were external stressors. And when the storm stopped and I got into a when the storm stopped and I got into a when the storm stopped and I got into a hospital room where it was dead quiet, hospital room where it was dead quiet, hospital room where it was dead quiet, utterly boring with nothing to do, I'm utterly boring with nothing to do, I'm utterly boring with nothing to do, I'm like, "God and I are fine. Tony and I like, "God and I are fine. Tony and I like, "God and I are fine. Tony and I are fine. I like my life. I like my are fine. I like my life. I like my are fine. I like my life. I like my calling. Hopefully I get well. Hopefully calling. Hopefully I get well. Hopefully calling. Hopefully I get well. Hopefully we figure this out." But I realized cuz we figure this out." But I realized cuz we figure this out." But I realized cuz I know what it is to have the internal I know what it is to have the internal I know what it is to have the internal storm. That was 20 years ago where storm. That was 20 years ago where storm. That was 20 years ago where everything on the outside is peaceful, everything on the outside is peaceful, everything on the outside is peaceful, but on the inside but on the inside but on the inside it's dead. It's like, "Oh no, it's very it's dead. It's like, "Oh no, it's very it's dead. It's like, "Oh no, it's very much alive on the inside." Right. So much alive on the inside." Right. So much alive on the inside." Right. So that was very affirming and I I don't that was very affirming and I I don't that was very affirming and I I don't know I mean this is a lot about my life know I mean this is a lot about my life know I mean this is a lot about my life but for leaders I think you know my but for leaders I think you know my but for leaders I think you know my lesson going forward is I really have to lesson going forward is I really have to lesson going forward is I really have to pay careful attention to the external pay careful attention to the external pay careful attention to the external stressors stressors stressors >> versus the internal stressors. And I >> versus the internal stressors. And I >> versus the internal stressors. And I think there are definitely seasons in think there are definitely seasons in think there are definitely seasons in the past and there will be seasons in the past and there will be seasons in the past and there will be seasons in the future where it's internal turmoil. the future where it's internal turmoil. the future where it's internal turmoil. I'm not a happy guy. I'm not you know I'm not a happy guy. I'm not you know I'm not a happy guy. I'm not you know whatever. I'm not content. I don't know whatever. I'm not content. I don't know whatever. I'm not content. I don't know about this. And then there are times about this. And then there are times about this. And then there are times where probably over these last 16 months where probably over these last 16 months where probably over these last 16 months it was like I was pretty much all it was like I was pretty much all it was like I was pretty much all external and you know resilience is the external and you know resilience is the external and you know resilience is the ability to get up one more time than ability to get up one more time than ability to get up one more time than you're knocked down. And so you know I you're knocked down. And so you know I you're knocked down. And so you know I kept getting knocked down 29 times and kept getting knocked down 29 times and kept getting knocked down 29 times and now I'm back up and I'm feeling okay.

now I'm back up and I'm feeling okay. now I'm back up and I'm feeling okay. And if this thing resolves as we plan And if this thing resolves as we plan And if this thing resolves as we plan think it will the doctors think it will think it will the doctors think it will think it will the doctors think it will in the next few months then it'll be in the next few months then it'll be in the next few months then it'll be business as usual. But it's it's a new business as usual. But it's it's a new business as usual. But it's it's a new framework to look at things with. It's a framework to look at things with. It's a framework to look at things with. It's a new I have a lot of empathy for Le I've new I have a lot of empathy for Le I've new I have a lot of empathy for Le I've never had the mental health. You know, never had the mental health. You know, never had the mental health. You know, it's like playing pinball in my brain it's like playing pinball in my brain it's like playing pinball in my brain when I'm on that much predinazone. Who I when I'm on that much predinazone. Who I when I'm on that much predinazone. Who I am at 11:00 a.m. is different from who I am at 11:00 a.m. is different from who I am at 11:00 a.m. is different from who I am at 11:18. You know, my my joke is uh am at 11:18. You know, my my joke is uh am at 11:18. You know, my my joke is uh it's kind of like the White House it's kind of like the White House it's kind of like the White House changes every 20 minutes and it's not changes every 20 minutes and it's not changes every 20 minutes and it's not normal. That's like that's my that's my normal. That's like that's my that's my normal. That's like that's my that's my interior mind on that drug. And you interior mind on that drug. And you interior mind on that drug. And you know, it's starting they're tapering my know, it's starting they're tapering my know, it's starting they're tapering my meds now. So it's it's a little more meds now. So it's it's a little more meds now. So it's it's a little more sane, but I have a lot of empathy for sane, but I have a lot of empathy for sane, but I have a lot of empathy for people who have that kind like we all people who have that kind like we all people who have that kind like we all have good days and bad days, right? You have good days and bad days, right? You have good days and bad days, right? You have bad days, good days, good weeks, have bad days, good days, good weeks, have bad days, good days, good weeks, bad weeks, good seasons, bad seasons, bad weeks, good seasons, bad seasons, bad weeks, good seasons, bad seasons, but like every 20 minutes or every two but like every 20 minutes or every two but like every 20 minutes or every two hours and that's not fair and to the hours and that's not fair and to the hours and that's not fair and to the people around you or to anybody. So I people around you or to anybody. So I people around you or to anybody. So I have a lot but now I understand. Oh, have a lot but now I understand. Oh, have a lot but now I understand. Oh, this is why people reach for alcohol at this is why people reach for alcohol at this is why people reach for alcohol at 2:00 in the afternoon.

2:00 in the afternoon. 2:00 in the afternoon. >> Yeah. If you're that out of whack, >> Yeah. If you're that out of whack, >> Yeah. If you're that out of whack, you're like anything to get back to you're like anything to get back to you're like anything to get back to normal. And so for the first two weeks normal. And so for the first two weeks normal. And so for the first two weeks of prennazone, they said, "You're going of prennazone, they said, "You're going of prennazone, they said, "You're going to get moonface. You're going to gain to get moonface. You're going to gain to get moonface. You're going to gain weight. You're going to gain a lot of weight. You're going to gain a lot of weight. You're going to gain a lot of weight. It's just a side effect of the weight. It's just a side effect of the weight. It's just a side effect of the drug." And I told myself, I've worked drug." And I told myself, I've worked drug." And I told myself, I've worked this hard on my fitness. I'm going to this hard on my fitness. I'm going to this hard on my fitness. I'm going to pretend I'm taking Ozmpic. I am not pretend I'm taking Ozmpic. I am not pretend I'm taking Ozmpic. I am not hungry. hungry. hungry. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I didn't eat, but my mood was out of >> And I didn't eat, but my mood was out of >> And I didn't eat, but my mood was out of control. And like I could have been the control. And like I could have been the control. And like I could have been the road rage guy that ends up in some viral road rage guy that ends up in some viral road rage guy that ends up in some viral video when I'm driving into town if video when I'm driving into town if video when I'm driving into town if somebody cut me off. And I'm like, somebody cut me off. And I'm like, somebody cut me off. And I'm like, >> "This is not me. I showed up to a family >> "This is not me. I showed up to a family >> "This is not me. I showed up to a family function, sat down next to my sister at function, sat down next to my sister at function, sat down next to my sister at a restaurant, and the first words out of a restaurant, and the first words out of a restaurant, and the first words out of my mouth as I'm sitting down is, "I hate my mouth as I'm sitting down is, "I hate my mouth as I'm sitting down is, "I hate this restaurant." Now, first of all, I this restaurant." Now, first of all, I this restaurant." Now, first of all, I don't really hate the restaurant. It's don't really hate the restaurant. It's don't really hate the restaurant. It's not my favorite, but I don't hate it. not my favorite, but I don't hate it. not my favorite, but I don't hate it. And secondly, why would I say that in And secondly, why would I say that in And secondly, why would I say that in public? public? public? >> But that was my, you know, and you get >> But that was my, you know, and you get >> But that was my, you know, and you get cancelled for stuff like that if you do cancelled for stuff like that if you do cancelled for stuff like that if you do that on stage at scale. that on stage at scale. that on stage at scale. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> I'm like, "Oh, my my brain is not >> I'm like, "Oh, my my brain is not >> I'm like, "Oh, my my brain is not working right." And so what I realized working right." And so what I realized working right." And so what I realized is mood and movement exercise or food is mood and movement exercise or food is mood and movement exercise or food and movement regulates mood for me when and movement regulates mood for me when and movement regulates mood for me when I'm on prennazone. So after two weeks, I'm on prennazone. So after two weeks, I'm on prennazone. So after two weeks, you know, Tony was tired of my dog and you know, Tony was tired of my dog and you know, Tony was tired of my dog and pony show every day and not knowing what pony show every day and not knowing what pony show every day and not knowing what she was going to get. So I said, "Okay, she was going to get. So I said, "Okay, she was going to get. So I said, "Okay, I'm just going to start obeying the I'm just going to start obeying the I'm just going to start obeying the appetite and eating." And my mood got appetite and eating." And my mood got appetite and eating." And my mood got better.

better. better. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I could regulate it better. But, you >> And I could regulate it better. But, you >> And I could regulate it better. But, you know, in my case, it was like four meals know, in my case, it was like four meals know, in my case, it was like four meals a day, five meals a day and some snacks. a day, five meals a day and some snacks. a day, five meals a day and some snacks. But, you know, I didn't turn to alcohol But, you know, I didn't turn to alcohol But, you know, I didn't turn to alcohol or drugs, but I could see why people do or drugs, but I could see why people do or drugs, but I could see why people do if it's that volatile. So, it gave me a if it's that volatile. So, it gave me a if it's that volatile. So, it gave me a lot of like I didn't have any empathy lot of like I didn't have any empathy lot of like I didn't have any empathy for people who burned out before I for people who burned out before I for people who burned out before I burned out in 2006. Now, I have a lot of burned out in 2006. Now, I have a lot of burned out in 2006. Now, I have a lot of empathy. And I was trying to understand empathy. And I was trying to understand empathy. And I was trying to understand like, well, why would you be doing that like, well, why would you be doing that like, well, why would you be doing that at 2:00 in the afternoon? It doesn't at 2:00 in the afternoon? It doesn't at 2:00 in the afternoon? It doesn't make any sense. No, it makes sense to make any sense. No, it makes sense to make any sense. No, it makes sense to me. I'm not gonna do it, but like and I me. I'm not gonna do it, but like and I me. I'm not gonna do it, but like and I can, you know, as they taper the meds, can, you know, as they taper the meds, can, you know, as they taper the meds, I'm tapering my food and getting back in I'm tapering my food and getting back in I'm tapering my food and getting back in the gym and on my bike and all that the gym and on my bike and all that the gym and on my bike and all that stuff, but like gave me a lot of empathy stuff, but like gave me a lot of empathy stuff, but like gave me a lot of empathy and then really to realize how fragile and then really to realize how fragile and then really to realize how fragile this all is, dude. Really how fragile. this all is, dude. Really how fragile. this all is, dude. Really how fragile. That was my first like you could die That was my first like you could die That was my first like you could die >> convo. what when you think about I think >> convo. what when you think about I think >> convo. what when you think about I think you you talked about the the leadership you you talked about the the leadership you you talked about the the leadership side of this like the the leadership side of this like the the leadership side of this like the the leadership gene comes with a burden. gene comes with a burden. gene comes with a burden. Um and so you're Um and so you're Um and so you're you're the person that's convincing you're the person that's convincing you're the person that's convincing people how to excel, how to push further people how to excel, how to push further people how to excel, how to push further than they would otherwise. Go above and than they would otherwise. Go above and than they would otherwise. Go above and beyond. You know, you bring stability in beyond. You know, you bring stability in beyond. You know, you bring stability in the midst of of turmoil. These are all the midst of of turmoil. These are all the midst of of turmoil. These are all things that leaders do.

things that leaders do. things that leaders do. But But But there's the shadow side of that too is there's the shadow side of that too is there's the shadow side of that too is what the mantle and maybe the what the mantle and maybe the what the mantle and maybe the accumulation accumulation accumulation cuz you had things in your past that you cuz you had things in your past that you cuz you had things in your past that you had moved on from. They're in the had moved on from. They're in the had moved on from. They're in the rearview mirror, but maybe there's rearview mirror, but maybe there's rearview mirror, but maybe there's aspects of them that you still carry aspects of them that you still carry aspects of them that you still carry with you. They still have weight. Um with you. They still have weight. Um with you. They still have weight. Um certainly when you have some huge ones certainly when you have some huge ones certainly when you have some huge ones like that on the list of of 29. So like that on the list of of 29. So like that on the list of of 29. So what are your do you have any what are your do you have any what are your do you have any conclusions in terms of conclusions in terms of conclusions in terms of I don't know maybe just the idea of I don't know maybe just the idea of I don't know maybe just the idea of surviving the call of a leader. surviving the call of a leader. surviving the call of a leader. >> Yeah. Well you know Dr. Chappelle and I >> Yeah. Well you know Dr. Chappelle and I >> Yeah. Well you know Dr. Chappelle and I are working on that together. He's he's are working on that together. He's he's are working on that together. He's he's in the middle I haven't talked to him in in the middle I haven't talked to him in in the middle I haven't talked to him in a couple weeks. He's in the middle of a couple weeks. He's in the middle of a couple weeks. He's in the middle of the NBA finals right now. He's coaching the NBA finals right now. He's coaching the NBA finals right now. He's coaching one of the teams that are there, but you one of the teams that are there, but you one of the teams that are there, but you know, he's definitely saying, again, I know, he's definitely saying, again, I know, he's definitely saying, again, I know nothing about sports less than all know nothing about sports less than all know nothing about sports less than all of your other guests combined. I know of your other guests combined. I know of your other guests combined. I know nothing. Um, but there's some player he nothing. Um, but there's some player he nothing. Um, but there's some player he coaches who's very famous, has a big coaches who's very famous, has a big coaches who's very famous, has a big contract. I think he's got two first contract. I think he's got two first contract. I think he's got two first names. Is Anthony Paul, is that like a names. Is Anthony Paul, is that like a names. Is Anthony Paul, is that like a >> No, I don't know who he is. Anyway, he >> No, I don't know who he is. Anyway, he >> No, I don't know who he is. Anyway, he told me numerous times, very famous, but told me numerous times, very famous, but told me numerous times, very famous, but I don't follow sports. So he's like 30 I don't follow sports. So he's like 30 I don't follow sports. So he's like 30 and you know he wanted to be in on every and you know he wanted to be in on every and you know he wanted to be in on every play like put me in coach put me in play like put me in coach put me in play like put me in coach put me in coach and that's me I want to be in on coach and that's me I want to be in on coach and that's me I want to be in on every play and he's like yeah at 30 in every play and he's like yeah at 30 in every play and he's like yeah at 30 in the NBA you can't do that. So when he the NBA you can't do that. So when he the NBA you can't do that. So when he was coaching him and he's the was coaching him and he's the was coaching him and he's the performance psychologist, he's like, performance psychologist, he's like, performance psychologist, he's like, "You're" and he worked with the head

"You're" and he worked with the head "You're" and he worked with the head coach, pardon me, and the general coach, pardon me, and the general coach, pardon me, and the general manager. And he just said, "You're going manager. And he just said, "You're going manager. And he just said, "You're going to sit out, you know, you're going to be to sit out, you know, you're going to be to sit out, you know, you're going to be bench. You're going to do half your bench. You're going to do half your bench. You're going to do half your normal game time." And he was dying. normal game time." And he was dying. normal game time." And he was dying. Like, "This is awful. I hate it." And Like, "This is awful. I hate it." And Like, "This is awful. I hate it." And that's what Dr. C was trying to do with that's what Dr. C was trying to do with that's what Dr. C was trying to do with me before all this went down. me before all this went down. me before all this went down. >> And I'm like, "Look, I only work 4 days >> And I'm like, "Look, I only work 4 days >> And I'm like, "Look, I only work 4 days a week, four and a half days a week. a week, four and a half days a week. a week, four and a half days a week. Like, what do you want me to be? Like, what do you want me to be? Like, what do you want me to be? Semi-retired? Like, come on." And uh so Semi-retired? Like, come on." And uh so Semi-retired? Like, come on." And uh so I'm I'm giving him appropriate push I'm I'm giving him appropriate push I'm I'm giving him appropriate push back. But what happened with that NBA back. But what happened with that NBA back. But what happened with that NBA player is he left the team he was on, player is he left the team he was on, player is he left the team he was on, became a free agent or something like became a free agent or something like became a free agent or something like that and signed for double his contract that and signed for double his contract that and signed for double his contract the next year because it increased his the next year because it increased his the next year because it increased his performance doing less performance doing less performance doing less >> increased more. So the dialogue is we'll >> increased more. So the dialogue is we'll >> increased more. So the dialogue is we'll pick it up. I'm welcome to my therapy pick it up. I'm welcome to my therapy pick it up. I'm welcome to my therapy session. We're in the middle of this session. We're in the middle of this session. We're in the middle of this right now. Okay. But the dialogue the right now. Okay. But the dialogue the right now. Okay. But the dialogue the next time I sit down with him is look 29 next time I sit down with him is look 29 next time I sit down with him is look 29 in 14 months is a lot and you know three in 14 months is a lot and you know three in 14 months is a lot and you know three or four things like one parent going or four things like one parent going or four things like one parent going through something but like literally through something but like literally through something but like literally four parents going through something in four parents going through something in four parents going through something in a year and having to move two family a year and having to move two family a year and having to move two family properties and you know this that and properties and you know this that and properties and you know this that and the other thing and then an the other thing and then an the other thing and then an unprecedented ice storm and no power and unprecedented ice storm and no power and unprecedented ice storm and no power and no hydro and the studio is dead and I no hydro and the studio is dead and I no hydro and the studio is dead and I can't do my job like it is book of can't do my job like it is book of can't do my job like it is book of jobish. So, I would like to pretend that jobish. So, I would like to pretend that jobish. So, I would like to pretend that this is a high water mark for stress in this is a high water mark for stress in this is a high water mark for stress in my life right now. Like, you know, most my life right now. Like, you know, most my life right now. Like, you know, most leaders could say hopefully CO was the leaders could say hopefully CO was the leaders could say hopefully CO was the high water mark. We're not going to go high water mark. We're not going to go high water mark. We're not going to go back there. But we don't know.

back there. But we don't know. back there. But we don't know. >> And so, Dr. C is like, you need to spend >> And so, Dr. C is like, you need to spend >> And so, Dr. C is like, you need to spend a little more time on the bench. a little more time on the bench. a little more time on the bench. >> And I'm I'm still like, put me in. So, >> And I'm I'm still like, put me in. So, >> And I'm I'm still like, put me in. So, what I'm learning though is probably my what I'm learning though is probably my what I'm learning though is probably my biggest lesson is you got to stop long biggest lesson is you got to stop long biggest lesson is you got to stop long enough to know whether it's internal or enough to know whether it's internal or enough to know whether it's internal or external stress. external stress. external stress. >> Okay? You got to and probably keep a >> Okay? You got to and probably keep a >> Okay? You got to and probably keep a running list like what is I wasn't very running list like what is I wasn't very running list like what is I wasn't very good at this in the moment because you good at this in the moment because you good at this in the moment because you always think the bad things are an always think the bad things are an always think the bad things are an anomaly. It's like well I got that one anomaly. It's like well I got that one anomaly. It's like well I got that one nasty email but I am surely there's not nasty email but I am surely there's not nasty email but I am surely there's not going to be one tomorrow but then going to be one tomorrow but then going to be one tomorrow but then there's one tomorrow and then there's there's one tomorrow and then there's there's one tomorrow and then there's one the day after and there you know one the day after and there you know one the day after and there you know well you know yeah and it was already a well you know yeah and it was already a well you know yeah and it was already a bad winter up here but then the ice bad winter up here but then the ice bad winter up here but then the ice storm it's like there's not going to be storm it's like there's not going to be storm it's like there's not going to be an ice storm is there? Oh yeah, there's an ice storm is there? Oh yeah, there's an ice storm is there? Oh yeah, there's an ice storm. Right? So, you end up at an ice storm. Right? So, you end up at an ice storm. Right? So, you end up at that place where you're just, you know, that place where you're just, you know, that place where you're just, you know, you're always responding to things. And you're always responding to things. And you're always responding to things. And I think keeping a running list and I think keeping a running list and I think keeping a running list and going, okay, I got 10 on my active list going, okay, I got 10 on my active list going, okay, I got 10 on my active list right now. right now. right now. >> There's got to be a threshold where if >> There's got to be a threshold where if >> There's got to be a threshold where if you've got 10 external stressors, I'm you've got 10 external stressors, I'm you've got 10 external stressors, I'm thinking in real time here. I haven't thinking in real time here. I haven't thinking in real time here. I haven't really processed this cuz it's really processed this cuz it's really processed this cuz it's happening, but if there's 10 external happening, but if there's 10 external happening, but if there's 10 external stressors on your list, you probably stressors on your list, you probably stressors on your list, you probably need to book that weekend away or you need to book that weekend away or you need to book that weekend away or you need to slam the laptop at 4, not at 6.

need to slam the laptop at 4, not at 6. need to slam the laptop at 4, not at 6. Or you need to build more margin, more Or you need to build more margin, more Or you need to build more margin, more sleep, more rest, more processing into sleep, more rest, more processing into sleep, more rest, more processing into your life because it was coming at me your life because it was coming at me your life because it was coming at me faster than I could really grieve it. faster than I could really grieve it. faster than I could really grieve it. You know, ministry is a series of ung You know, ministry is a series of ung You know, ministry is a series of ung losses. That's one of my mentors, Terry losses. That's one of my mentors, Terry losses. That's one of my mentors, Terry Wardle, Wardle, Wardle, >> what he taught me. And you know there >> what he taught me. And you know there >> what he taught me. And you know there was a lot to grieve. Another another big was a lot to grieve. Another another big was a lot to grieve. Another another big lesson for me is you know with all the lesson for me is you know with all the lesson for me is you know with all the family stuff I got caught up in some of family stuff I got caught up in some of family stuff I got caught up in some of the family drama trying to be the the family drama trying to be the the family drama trying to be the firstborn or trying to be the helpful firstborn or trying to be the helpful firstborn or trying to be the helpful person. And I'm like right with aging person. And I'm like right with aging person. And I'm like right with aging parents there's always somebody that parents there's always somebody that parents there's always somebody that carries that role. Right. carries that role. Right. carries that role. Right. >> Yeah. And I'm like you know maybe that's >> Yeah. And I'm like you know maybe that's >> Yeah. And I'm like you know maybe that's not my role. not my role. not my role. Maybe I exit the drama faster. Maybe I exit the drama faster. Maybe I exit the drama faster. Maybe there's some group texts I just Maybe there's some group texts I just Maybe there's some group texts I just leave. Maybe, maybe, maybe I just don't leave. Maybe, maybe, maybe I just don't leave. Maybe, maybe, maybe I just don't respond. Like, why does someone else's respond. Like, why does someone else's respond. Like, why does someone else's drama have to be my drama? That was drama have to be my drama? That was drama have to be my drama? That was another thing. Because I'm a leader. I'm another thing. Because I'm a leader. I'm another thing. Because I'm a leader. I'm a fixer. I can fix this. Hey, I advise a fixer. I can fix this. Hey, I advise a fixer. I can fix this. Hey, I advise leaders around the world. Why wouldn't leaders around the world. Why wouldn't leaders around the world. Why wouldn't they take my advice? they take my advice? they take my advice? >> There's a dynamic to process in your >> There's a dynamic to process in your >> There's a dynamic to process in your family, right? Absolutely. I even feel family, right? Absolutely. I even feel family, right? Absolutely. I even feel like there's this thing leaders like there's this thing leaders like there's this thing leaders >> handle expectations usually by exceeding >> handle expectations usually by exceeding >> handle expectations usually by exceeding them.

them. them. >> But expectations are dangerous because >> But expectations are dangerous because >> But expectations are dangerous because they're written and unwritten and stated they're written and unwritten and stated they're written and unwritten and stated and unstated but they're there. So even and unstated but they're there. So even and unstated but they're there. So even in that case, I'm projecting your in that case, I'm projecting your in that case, I'm projecting your situation on me. There there's typically situation on me. There there's typically situation on me. There there's typically expectations you feel of your siblings expectations you feel of your siblings expectations you feel of your siblings like I'm the I'm the sibling that like I'm the I'm the sibling that like I'm the I'm the sibling that carries this torch for this leg of the carries this torch for this leg of the carries this torch for this leg of the race. And I don't know that that's fair race. And I don't know that that's fair race. And I don't know that that's fair for me to say that my siblings have put for me to say that my siblings have put for me to say that my siblings have put on me. I just have put it on myself and on me. I just have put it on myself and on me. I just have put it on myself and felt that cuz there's that expectation. felt that cuz there's that expectation. felt that cuz there's that expectation. Um, I wonder in leadership, Um, I wonder in leadership, Um, I wonder in leadership, you know, where where does that begin to you know, where where does that begin to you know, where where does that begin to change where you go where I'm okay change where you go where I'm okay change where you go where I'm okay not meeting expectations of others or not meeting expectations of others or not meeting expectations of others or helping them change their expectations? helping them change their expectations? helping them change their expectations? Um, well, there's another dynamic. Um, well, there's another dynamic. Um, well, there's another dynamic. >> Scary to even ask that question for >> Scary to even ask that question for >> Scary to even ask that question for >> No, it is. And and I think I'm probably >> No, it is. And and I think I'm probably >> No, it is. And and I think I'm probably taking a step further back this year taking a step further back this year taking a step further back this year than I would have last year because, you than I would have last year because, you than I would have last year because, you know, the problem is when you're used to know, the problem is when you're used to know, the problem is when you're used to being in charge and I've only been in being in charge and I've only been in being in charge and I've only been in charge for the last 30 years. I was charge for the last 30 years. I was charge for the last 30 years. I was senior pastor, CEO of my own company, senior pastor, CEO of my own company, senior pastor, CEO of my own company, still the CEO of my own company. You still the CEO of my own company. You still the CEO of my own company. You know, all this stuff like I've only ever know, all this stuff like I've only ever know, all this stuff like I've only ever been in charge and most of your been in charge and most of your been in charge and most of your listeners have only ever been in charge.

listeners have only ever been in charge. listeners have only ever been in charge. And when you're only ever in charge and And when you're only ever in charge and And when you're only ever in charge and suddenly you're not in charge. Like all suddenly you're not in charge. Like all suddenly you're not in charge. Like all of those that list of 29. I was not in of those that list of 29. I was not in of those that list of 29. I was not in charge of any of that. I didn't charge of any of that. I didn't charge of any of that. I didn't orchestrate the ice storm. I didn't orchestrate the ice storm. I didn't orchestrate the ice storm. I didn't orchestrate my parents' health orchestrate my parents' health orchestrate my parents' health challenges. I didn't orchestrate any of challenges. I didn't orchestrate any of challenges. I didn't orchestrate any of those things. Now, was I involved? Yeah. those things. Now, was I involved? Yeah. those things. Now, was I involved? Yeah. But like I didn't cause them. Secondly, But like I didn't cause them. Secondly, But like I didn't cause them. Secondly, in your family, you're not the boss. And in your family, you're not the boss. And in your family, you're not the boss. And it depends on where you are in the birth it depends on where you are in the birth it depends on where you are in the birth order. But you know, in one family, I'm order. But you know, in one family, I'm order. But you know, in one family, I'm just the in-law, the son-in-law, the just the in-law, the son-in-law, the just the in-law, the son-in-law, the brother-in-law. brother-in-law. brother-in-law. >> In another one, I'm just one of four or >> In another one, I'm just one of four or >> In another one, I'm just one of four or one of the children. And you don't have one of the children. And you don't have one of the children. And you don't have the power to hire and fire. And you the power to hire and fire. And you the power to hire and fire. And you don't have authority. don't have authority. don't have authority. >> But you're used to kind of saying >> But you're used to kind of saying >> But you're used to kind of saying something in your church or your company something in your church or your company something in your church or your company and it just happens. And then you say it and it just happens. And then you say it and it just happens. And then you say it in your family and the opposite happens. in your family and the opposite happens. in your family and the opposite happens. or you get a lot of push back and you're or you get a lot of push back and you're or you get a lot of push back and you're like, well, you don't have a button to like, well, you don't have a button to like, well, you don't have a button to push or a lever to pull to to make it push or a lever to pull to to make it push or a lever to pull to to make it happen like you do when you're the happen like you do when you're the happen like you do when you're the leader. So, you know, it was a really leader. So, you know, it was a really leader. So, you know, it was a really and you know, we've had, you know, and you know, we've had, you know, and you know, we've had, you know, disagreements over the years about, disagreements over the years about, disagreements over the years about, well, where will we vacation or what are well, where will we vacation or what are well, where will we vacation or what are we going to have for dinner? Big deal.

we going to have for dinner? Big deal. we going to have for dinner? Big deal. But when you're dealing with existential But when you're dealing with existential But when you're dealing with existential things like your parents' future and things like your parents' future and things like your parents' future and their health, the the stakes are higher. their health, the the stakes are higher. their health, the the stakes are higher. So, it's more loaded. So, I think So, it's more loaded. So, I think So, it's more loaded. So, I think probably, you know, what I'm thinking probably, you know, what I'm thinking probably, you know, what I'm thinking about more is could all be over in a about more is could all be over in a about more is could all be over in a heartbeat. Some stuff's worth thinking heartbeat. Some stuff's worth thinking heartbeat. Some stuff's worth thinking about, some stuff isn't worth thinking about, some stuff isn't worth thinking about, some stuff isn't worth thinking about, some stuff's worth responding to, about, some stuff's worth responding to, about, some stuff's worth responding to, some stuff isn't worth responding to, some stuff isn't worth responding to, some stuff isn't worth responding to, and get on with the work. And you know, and get on with the work. And you know, and get on with the work. And you know, the other thing I've done is I want to the other thing I've done is I want to the other thing I've done is I want to be more present in the day-to-day. Now, be more present in the day-to-day. Now, be more present in the day-to-day. Now, I start to sound like a cliche, but when I start to sound like a cliche, but when I start to sound like a cliche, but when Tony and I went to New York, it was my Tony and I went to New York, it was my Tony and I went to New York, it was my first trip that I was allowed to make first trip that I was allowed to make first trip that I was allowed to make with, you know, the condition I have. with, you know, the condition I have. with, you know, the condition I have. and we spent six days in Manhattan and and we spent six days in Manhattan and and we spent six days in Manhattan and like I made sure we went to the good like I made sure we went to the good like I made sure we went to the good restaurants and we didn't just leave it restaurants and we didn't just leave it restaurants and we didn't just leave it behind. You know, when I was picking a behind. You know, when I was picking a behind. You know, when I was picking a Broadway show to surprise her with, I Broadway show to surprise her with, I Broadway show to surprise her with, I picked one of her favorite actors. It picked one of her favorite actors. It picked one of her favorite actors. It was a higher ticket price. It's like, was a higher ticket price. It's like, was a higher ticket price. It's like, I'm just buying the ticket. We're going I'm just buying the ticket. We're going I'm just buying the ticket. We're going to go. to go. to go. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I'm going to enjoy it more because >> I'm going to enjoy it more because >> I'm going to enjoy it more because otherwise I'd be like, "Oh, we'll be otherwise I'd be like, "Oh, we'll be otherwise I'd be like, "Oh, we'll be back in New York again in a year or two back in New York again in a year or two back in New York again in a year or two and we'll do it then and I'm going to and we'll do it then and I'm going to and we'll do it then and I'm going to bring my laptop and I'll get working on bring my laptop and I'll get working on bring my laptop and I'll get working on this new book and I'll get this done."

this new book and I'll get this done." this new book and I'll get this done." And now it was like just going to really And now it was like just going to really And now it was like just going to really enjoy you. That's That's awesome. enjoy you. That's That's awesome. enjoy you. That's That's awesome. That's sweet sounding. That's sweet sounding. That's sweet sounding. >> Yeah. But I don't know like what do you >> Yeah. But I don't know like what do you >> Yeah. But I don't know like what do you think? What do you see? Cuz you've been think? What do you see? Cuz you've been think? What do you see? Cuz you've been a you've been a good friend in this. You a you've been a good friend in this. You a you've been a good friend in this. You also find out what friends really track also find out what friends really track also find out what friends really track with you and you've been one of those with you and you've been one of those with you and you've been one of those friends who tracks with me. So, thank friends who tracks with me. So, thank friends who tracks with me. So, thank you. you. you. >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Oh, I think for me, um, well, I Yeah. Oh, I think for me, um, well, I Yeah. Oh, I think for me, um, well, I would go back to what Stacy and I talked would go back to what Stacy and I talked would go back to what Stacy and I talked about when we found out you were in the about when we found out you were in the about when we found out you were in the hospital was just like the hospital was just like the hospital was just like the the your ability to create and keep a the your ability to create and keep a the your ability to create and keep a pace uh, is isn't it's just it's 12 out pace uh, is isn't it's just it's 12 out pace uh, is isn't it's just it's 12 out of 10. We we got to hike uh Halfdme of 10. We we got to hike uh Halfdme of 10. We we got to hike uh Halfdme and you got to you put in for a lottery and you got to you put in for a lottery and you got to you put in for a lottery and all that stuff and if you get and all that stuff and if you get and all that stuff and if you get selected then they give you a date and selected then they give you a date and selected then they give you a date and that's the date you have to hike that's the date you have to hike that's the date you have to hike Halfdme. We did it. We invited some Halfdme. We did it. We invited some Halfdme. We did it. We invited some friends and friends and friends and >> Glad you outpaced me on that one. I I've >> Glad you outpaced me on that one. I I've >> Glad you outpaced me on that one. I I've done hiking with you. You're intense done hiking with you. You're intense done hiking with you. You're intense dude. dude. dude. >> So some friends of ours flew out from >> So some friends of ours flew out from >> So some friends of ours flew out from New Hampshire and they were they were New Hampshire and they were they were New Hampshire and they were they were killer on the trail. But all day long, killer on the trail. But all day long, killer on the trail. But all day long, uh, they're just very positive people in uh, they're just very positive people in uh, they're just very positive people in general. And one of them's an orthopedic general. And one of them's an orthopedic general. And one of them's an orthopedic surgeon, which is a great skill to have surgeon, which is a great skill to have surgeon, which is a great skill to have as a as an orthopedic surgeon.

as a as an orthopedic surgeon. as a as an orthopedic surgeon. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yes. Yeah. From here being a patient. >> Yes. Yeah. From here being a patient. >> Yes. Yeah. From here being a patient. >> Bring your knife. >> Bring your knife. >> Bring your knife. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, they were so positive and they kept >> So, they were so positive and they kept >> So, they were so positive and they kept saying this trail is a 12 out of 10. And saying this trail is a 12 out of 10. And saying this trail is a 12 out of 10. And we've brought that into our vernacular we've brought that into our vernacular we've brought that into our vernacular uh because it just made us pause to go uh because it just made us pause to go uh because it just made us pause to go there's exceptional beauty in all sorts there's exceptional beauty in all sorts there's exceptional beauty in all sorts of things that we encounter. Um of things that we encounter. Um of things that we encounter. Um >> and if you just say oh that's beautiful >> and if you just say oh that's beautiful >> and if you just say oh that's beautiful and move on or I've seen stuff like that and move on or I've seen stuff like that and move on or I've seen stuff like that before. It's like no like there are before. It's like no like there are before. It's like no like there are things that just they are 12 out of 10. things that just they are 12 out of 10. things that just they are 12 out of 10. And I know mathematically that doesn't And I know mathematically that doesn't And I know mathematically that doesn't work but they are. No, you know, and and work but they are. No, you know, and and work but they are. No, you know, and and and part of your personality, it's and part of your personality, it's and part of your personality, it's weird. Tony's joking about it now that weird. Tony's joking about it now that weird. Tony's joking about it now that the danger seems to be passing, the danger seems to be passing, the danger seems to be passing, >> but I I was only in the hospital for 3 >> but I I was only in the hospital for 3 >> but I I was only in the hospital for 3 days. I think I went in on Saturday days. I think I went in on Saturday days. I think I went in on Saturday morning. They released me Tuesday morning. They released me Tuesday morning. They released me Tuesday morning. And I mean, I was like suitcase morning. And I mean, I was like suitcase morning. And I mean, I was like suitcase packed, ready to go at the door, packed, ready to go at the door, packed, ready to go at the door, >> you know, when they're like, "You can >> you know, when they're like, "You can >> you know, when they're like, "You can go." I'm like, "Okay, great." But um go." I'm like, "Okay, great." But um go." I'm like, "Okay, great." But um there were a couple things I did that there were a couple things I did that there were a couple things I did that looking back at it are kind of looking back at it are kind of looking back at it are kind of laughable, but you only do what you know laughable, but you only do what you know laughable, but you only do what you know in the moment. First thing was they put in the moment. First thing was they put in the moment. First thing was they put that stupid blue hospital gown on.

that stupid blue hospital gown on. that stupid blue hospital gown on. You're a yellow one You're a yellow one You're a yellow one >> and I don't know what it's covering and >> and I don't know what it's covering and >> and I don't know what it's covering and I'm not very comfortable. I'm not very comfortable. I'm not very comfortable. >> Not much. >> Not much. >> Not much. >> No, not much. Not Not nearly enough. >> No, not much. Not Not nearly enough. >> No, not much. Not Not nearly enough. Okay. Not nearly enough. And they also Okay. Not nearly enough. And they also Okay. Not nearly enough. And they also were looking for an empty bed to admit were looking for an empty bed to admit were looking for an empty bed to admit me. And I got a bed that first day, but me. And I got a bed that first day, but me. And I got a bed that first day, but put me on a floor with a lot of people put me on a floor with a lot of people put me on a floor with a lot of people who are 30 years older than me, a lot of who are 30 years older than me, a lot of who are 30 years older than me, a lot of dementia patients. And I'm like, do you dementia patients. And I'm like, do you dementia patients. And I'm like, do you guys have something else to tell me guys have something else to tell me guys have something else to tell me here? Like am I is this a hint? like I here? Like am I is this a hint? like I here? Like am I is this a hint? like I got more than just the the anemia. Like got more than just the the anemia. Like got more than just the the anemia. Like what's going on? So anyway, but they had what's going on? So anyway, but they had what's going on? So anyway, but they had like um it's the only floor in that like um it's the only floor in that like um it's the only floor in that hospital that had like an outdoor hospital that had like an outdoor hospital that had like an outdoor terrace and nobody was using it. And I'm terrace and nobody was using it. And I'm terrace and nobody was using it. And I'm like I'm going to go sit there and then like I'm going to go sit there and then like I'm going to go sit there and then I said to Tony, "Bring my laptop." So I said to Tony, "Bring my laptop." So I said to Tony, "Bring my laptop." So she brought my laptop and then I said, she brought my laptop and then I said, she brought my laptop and then I said, "Hey, do I have to wear like I'm just "Hey, do I have to wear like I'm just "Hey, do I have to wear like I'm just getting like an IV. I'm not hooked up on getting like an IV. I'm not hooked up on getting like an IV. I'm not hooked up on wires. Can I can I just wear a t-shirt wires. Can I can I just wear a t-shirt wires. Can I can I just wear a t-shirt and shorts?" Cuz it was so hot in there and shorts?" Cuz it was so hot in there and shorts?" Cuz it was so hot in there because the patients were older. They're because the patients were older. They're because the patients were older. They're like, "Yeah, that's all right. right? like, "Yeah, that's all right. right? like, "Yeah, that's all right. right? You don't have to wear a hospital gown. You don't have to wear a hospital gown. You don't have to wear a hospital gown. So, all of a sudden, within 24 hours, So, all of a sudden, within 24 hours, So, all of a sudden, within 24 hours, I've I've I'm I'm walking around in I've I've I'm I'm walking around in I've I've I'm I'm walking around in street clothes, and I've got my laptop street clothes, and I've got my laptop street clothes, and I've got my laptop and my work bag that I take with me and my work bag that I take with me and my work bag that I take with me everywhere I travel. And between the everywhere I travel. And between the everywhere I travel. And between the terrace and an area at the end of the terrace and an area at the end of the terrace and an area at the end of the hall with a chair and a desk, I've set hall with a chair and a desk, I've set hall with a chair and a desk, I've set up an office up an office up an office >> and I'm working from the hospital. And >> and I'm working from the hospital. And >> and I'm working from the hospital. And the joke among the nurses is, and I've, the joke among the nurses is, and I've, the joke among the nurses is, and I've, you know, people are coming in to see you know, people are coming in to see you know, people are coming in to see me, they're bringing me coffees, are me, they're bringing me coffees, are me, they're bringing me coffees, are like, "Who is this guy? And is he a like, "Who is this guy? And is he a like, "Who is this guy? And is he a patient? like what is he doing here? And patient? like what is he doing here? And patient? like what is he doing here? And I'm like, no, I'm running my company I'm like, no, I'm running my company I'm like, no, I'm running my company from the hospital. What else are you from the hospital. What else are you from the hospital. What else are you going to do? Lie there? Like, going to do? Lie there? Like, going to do? Lie there? Like, >> you know, and so you are who you are and

>> you know, and so you are who you are and >> you know, and so you are who you are and you are that wiring and I wasn't harming you are that wiring and I wasn't harming you are that wiring and I wasn't harming my recovery cuz otherwise I'm going to my recovery cuz otherwise I'm going to my recovery cuz otherwise I'm going to lie in a bed and watch Netflix. So, you lie in a bed and watch Netflix. So, you lie in a bed and watch Netflix. So, you know, I'm doing what I know how to do. know, I'm doing what I know how to do. know, I'm doing what I know how to do. And, you know, so you're still who you And, you know, so you're still who you And, you know, so you're still who you are and yet you're also trying to take are and yet you're also trying to take are and yet you're also trying to take notes for the future about what 20% notes for the future about what 20% notes for the future about what 20% might need to change. might need to change. might need to change. >> Yeah. That's crazy. What uh what would >> Yeah. That's crazy. What uh what would >> Yeah. That's crazy. What uh what would you say if someone were to say the the you say if someone were to say the the you say if someone were to say the the 14 months that you went through leading 14 months that you went through leading 14 months that you went through leading up to that and even the couple of months up to that and even the couple of months up to that and even the couple of months since? So what is that 16 months like since? So what is that 16 months like since? So what is that 16 months like what what would be learning leadership what what would be learning leadership what what would be learning leadership learnings advice for leaders? learnings advice for leaders? learnings advice for leaders? Not lifetime stuff but just like this is Not lifetime stuff but just like this is Not lifetime stuff but just like this is pretty recent like based on the last 15 pretty recent like based on the last 15 pretty recent like based on the last 15 months. You can only take so many hits. months. You can only take so many hits. months. You can only take so many hits. Doesn't matter how strong you are. Uh I Doesn't matter how strong you are. Uh I Doesn't matter how strong you are. Uh I get why a lot of people thought about get why a lot of people thought about get why a lot of people thought about quitting or left during co and there be quitting or left during co and there be quitting or left during co and there be you know our world is hardly stable you know our world is hardly stable you know our world is hardly stable right now. Note right now. Note right now. Note >> um there might be more coming and you >> um there might be more coming and you >> um there might be more coming and you can only take so many hits and these can only take so many hits and these can only take so many hits and these didn't take me out but they made me more didn't take me out but they made me more didn't take me out but they made me more unstable than I've been in the last 20 unstable than I've been in the last 20 unstable than I've been in the last 20 years. And that's somebody who probably years. And that's somebody who probably years. And that's somebody who probably wrongfully prides himself on being wrongfully prides himself on being wrongfully prides himself on being resilient and strong. And like if it had resilient and strong. And like if it had resilient and strong. And like if it had kept going, kept going, kept going, I don't know what would have happened.

I don't know what would have happened. I don't know what would have happened. You know, people make terrible moral You know, people make terrible moral You know, people make terrible moral decisions. I, you know, there wasn't decisions. I, you know, there wasn't decisions. I, you know, there wasn't anything active in my life that leads me anything active in my life that leads me anything active in my life that leads me to think that that would have been to think that that would have been to think that that would have been there, but who knows? Um, or you just there, but who knows? Um, or you just there, but who knows? Um, or you just quit. You're just like, "All right." Or quit. You're just like, "All right." Or quit. You're just like, "All right." Or you become a shadow of your former self, you become a shadow of your former self, you become a shadow of your former self, or you limp. I had that hard reset in or you limp. I had that hard reset in or you limp. I had that hard reset in the hospital and I'm like, "Oh, if I can the hospital and I'm like, "Oh, if I can the hospital and I'm like, "Oh, if I can get physically better, then I can get physically better, then I can get physically better, then I can probably get emotionally better." And probably get emotionally better." And probably get emotionally better." And probably these 29 things aren't going to probably these 29 things aren't going to probably these 29 things aren't going to continue forever. But if I end up with a continue forever. But if I end up with a continue forever. But if I end up with a list that goes past, I'm picking list that goes past, I'm picking list that goes past, I'm picking arbitrary numbers here, six or 10 arbitrary numbers here, six or 10 arbitrary numbers here, six or 10 ongoing external stressors, I probably ongoing external stressors, I probably ongoing external stressors, I probably need to make adjustments to my schedule need to make adjustments to my schedule need to make adjustments to my schedule and my pacing that allow me sufficient and my pacing that allow me sufficient and my pacing that allow me sufficient recovery time. LeBron James. I remember recovery time. LeBron James. I remember recovery time. LeBron James. I remember interviewing Rob Pelinka on my podcast interviewing Rob Pelinka on my podcast interviewing Rob Pelinka on my podcast from the Lakers and he was saying, you from the Lakers and he was saying, you from the Lakers and he was saying, you know, he's worked with LeBron and also know, he's worked with LeBron and also know, he's worked with LeBron and also worked with Kobe Bryant. Those are two worked with Kobe Bryant. Those are two worked with Kobe Bryant. Those are two sports people I actually have heard of. sports people I actually have heard of. sports people I actually have heard of. Um, and they focused as much on prehab Um, and they focused as much on prehab Um, and they focused as much on prehab as rehab. And I think that's a lesson I as rehab. And I think that's a lesson I as rehab. And I think that's a lesson I haven't forgotten from Rob. Like prehab haven't forgotten from Rob. Like prehab haven't forgotten from Rob. Like prehab is this idea that kind of what what Dr.

is this idea that kind of what what Dr. is this idea that kind of what what Dr. C was doing with that NBA player whose C was doing with that NBA player whose C was doing with that NBA player whose name I can't remember. Like no, you're name I can't remember. Like no, you're name I can't remember. Like no, you're going to rest. So when you go in, you going to rest. So when you go in, you going to rest. So when you go in, you come in strong. And there's a certain come in strong. And there's a certain come in strong. And there's a certain point to your point where you started, point to your point where you started, point to your point where you started, you know, at 52 or me at 60 where yeah, you know, at 52 or me at 60 where yeah, you know, at 52 or me at 60 where yeah, I haven't got the energy of a I haven't got the energy of a I haven't got the energy of a 30-year-old. I I have the energy of a 30-year-old. I I have the energy of a 30-year-old. I I have the energy of a 60-year-old. Maybe, you know, top 20% 60-year-old. Maybe, you know, top 20% 60-year-old. Maybe, you know, top 20% 60-year-old health-wise or something 60-year-old health-wise or something 60-year-old health-wise or something like that, but it is it is limited and like that, but it is it is limited and like that, but it is it is limited and that's going to change what Eldridge was that's going to change what Eldridge was that's going to change what Eldridge was saying about the different seasons of saying about the different seasons of saying about the different seasons of your life, right? So, your life, right? So, your life, right? So, >> I have to adjust my expectations >> I have to adjust my expectations >> I have to adjust my expectations accordingly. Now, I am working on a new accordingly. Now, I am working on a new accordingly. Now, I am working on a new book which is going to go to market. we book which is going to go to market. we book which is going to go to market. we think soon sooner rather than later. And think soon sooner rather than later. And think soon sooner rather than later. And like I am jacked and I am energized and like I am jacked and I am energized and like I am jacked and I am energized and I'm pumped about it. Um so we'll see if I'm pumped about it. Um so we'll see if I'm pumped about it. Um so we'll see if that hits the market or not, but like that hits the market or not, but like that hits the market or not, but like I've still got my chops, but the chops I've still got my chops, but the chops I've still got my chops, but the chops are different. are different. are different. when you when you talked about keeping when you when you talked about keeping when you when you talked about keeping better track of better track of better track of the external internal and external the external internal and external the external internal and external stressors that really resonated with me stressors that really resonated with me stressors that really resonated with me cuz uh Richotus cuz uh Richotus cuz uh Richotus um gave me some insight you know I'm a um gave me some insight you know I'm a um gave me some insight you know I'm a threewing four on the anagram and threewing four on the anagram and threewing four on the anagram and you just and you know especially being you just and you know especially being you just and you know especially being in the military and being in four in the military and being in four in the military and being in four different combat tours uh you just kind different combat tours uh you just kind different combat tours uh you just kind of go well it doesn't really matter how of go well it doesn't really matter how of go well it doesn't really matter how you feel this is what has to be you feel this is what has to be you feel this is what has to be accomplished.

accomplished. accomplished. >> You got to fly into this city and do >> You got to fly into this city and do >> You got to fly into this city and do this, right? Like this, right? Like this, right? Like >> and I think leadership like that. That's >> and I think leadership like that. That's >> and I think leadership like that. That's a good analogy. a good analogy. a good analogy. >> Yeah. I think I actually I think it's >> Yeah. I think I actually I think it's >> Yeah. I think I actually I think it's it's a um absolutely what leaders have it's a um absolutely what leaders have it's a um absolutely what leaders have to do like this is what's required. So to do like this is what's required. So to do like this is what's required. So you compartmentalize. you compartmentalize. you compartmentalize. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And I can tell you, you know, we just >> And I can tell you, you know, we just >> And I can tell you, you know, we just had a a really sad loss of life with a had a a really sad loss of life with a had a a really sad loss of life with a crash in in India this week. And you crash in in India this week. And you crash in in India this week. And you want your pilots to be able to want your pilots to be able to want your pilots to be able to compartmentalize certain things and compartmentalize certain things and compartmentalize certain things and focus on what they're doing to the best focus on what they're doing to the best focus on what they're doing to the best of their ability in the cockpit in the of their ability in the cockpit in the of their ability in the cockpit in the moment. But I can tell you as a leader, moment. But I can tell you as a leader, moment. But I can tell you as a leader, long-term compartmentalization is long-term compartmentalization is long-term compartmentalization is probably falls under more like probably falls under more like probably falls under more like repression where you set it aside and repression where you set it aside and repression where you set it aside and stuff it away and bury it and try not to stuff it away and bury it and try not to stuff it away and bury it and try not to think about it. That's actually probably think about it. That's actually probably think about it. That's actually probably really unhealthy as a leader. But to be really unhealthy as a leader. But to be really unhealthy as a leader. But to be honest with you, I don't know of any honest with you, I don't know of any honest with you, I don't know of any leaders that got good training, myself leaders that got good training, myself leaders that got good training, myself included, on how to compartmentalize for included, on how to compartmentalize for included, on how to compartmentalize for the moment and and not really stuff it the moment and and not really stuff it the moment and and not really stuff it away and try to forget about it. One of away and try to forget about it. One of away and try to forget about it. One of the things that's helped me is uh what the things that's helped me is uh what the things that's helped me is uh what what I learned from Rich and he's he's what I learned from Rich and he's he's what I learned from Rich and he's he's probably a mutual friend. I don't know.

probably a mutual friend. I don't know. probably a mutual friend. I don't know. I know Rich. Yeah. I know Rich. Yeah. I know Rich. Yeah. >> Yeah. is um is I spent my life like kind >> Yeah. is um is I spent my life like kind >> Yeah. is um is I spent my life like kind of just telling myself it doesn't matter of just telling myself it doesn't matter of just telling myself it doesn't matter what you feel like just figure out what what you feel like just figure out what what you feel like just figure out what you have to do and move on. And so in my you have to do and move on. And so in my you have to do and move on. And so in my quiet time daily and I don't know that I quiet time daily and I don't know that I quiet time daily and I don't know that I do it daily but I try to do it daily do it daily but I try to do it daily do it daily but I try to do it daily with significant amounts of time. It's with significant amounts of time. It's with significant amounts of time. It's not five or 10 or 15 or even 20 minutes not five or 10 or 15 or even 20 minutes not five or 10 or 15 or even 20 minutes like it's it's an hour it's 90 minutes like it's it's an hour it's 90 minutes like it's it's an hour it's 90 minutes is start out uh um with just like what is start out uh um with just like what is start out uh um with just like what are the things that I'm thankful for? are the things that I'm thankful for? are the things that I'm thankful for? I'm just going to spend 3 to five I'm just going to spend 3 to five I'm just going to spend 3 to five minutes just mentally going through minutes just mentally going through minutes just mentally going through that. And the next thing I'm going to do that. And the next thing I'm going to do that. And the next thing I'm going to do is I'm going to say how am I feeling and is I'm going to say how am I feeling and is I'm going to say how am I feeling and why? And that and then the third thing why? And that and then the third thing why? And that and then the third thing is is God have a word for me and and is is God have a word for me and and is is God have a word for me and and sort of meditation on that. But that sort of meditation on that. But that sort of meditation on that. But that second point, how am I feeling and why? second point, how am I feeling and why? second point, how am I feeling and why? I started doing about two years ago. And I started doing about two years ago. And I started doing about two years ago. And I can tell you never before in my life I can tell you never before in my life I can tell you never before in my life have I ever really spent any time have I ever really spent any time have I ever really spent any time answering the question. I'm I was so bad answering the question. I'm I was so bad answering the question. I'm I was so bad at it, Carrie. I had to get out I had to at it, Carrie. I had to get out I had to at it, Carrie. I had to get out I had to download on a website emotional feelings download on a website emotional feelings download on a website emotional feelings chart. It's in a big color wheel and chart. It's in a big color wheel and chart. It's in a big color wheel and print it up and I have it in my Bible so print it up and I have it in my Bible so print it up and I have it in my Bible so I can get it out and go like I'm so bad I can get it out and go like I'm so bad I can get it out and go like I'm so bad with being in touch with my own emotions with being in touch with my own emotions with being in touch with my own emotions and why why am I feeling a little twinge and why why am I feeling a little twinge and why why am I feeling a little twinge of stress? Um because I spent 49 years of stress? Um because I spent 49 years of stress? Um because I spent 49 years stuffing it away and just figuring it stuffing it away and just figuring it stuffing it away and just figuring it out. Uh and I don't I don't think that's out. Uh and I don't I don't think that's out. Uh and I don't I don't think that's good.

good. good. >> What difference has it made for you? >> What difference has it made for you? >> What difference has it made for you? Um, I I'm way more of a person of peace Um, I I'm way more of a person of peace Um, I I'm way more of a person of peace >> in general, which it's a fruit of the >> in general, which it's a fruit of the >> in general, which it's a fruit of the spirit, so I think it's pretty pretty spirit, so I think it's pretty pretty spirit, so I think it's pretty pretty good. >> I would say I am >> I would say I am way more focused. way more focused. way more focused. Going through that exercise daily has Going through that exercise daily has Going through that exercise daily has really helped bring focus. really helped bring focus. really helped bring focus. um um um with things that I I want and people I with things that I I want and people I with things that I I want and people I want to be around more or less want to be around more or less want to be around more or less environments um tasks or maybe um we environments um tasks or maybe um we environments um tasks or maybe um we talked about expectation talked about expectation talked about expectation um expectations that I could feel um expectations that I could feel um expectations that I could feel building that no one's name but I'm building that no one's name but I'm building that no one's name but I'm realizing it's there and I can address realizing it's there and I can address realizing it's there and I can address it and go I don't want that expectation it and go I don't want that expectation it and go I don't want that expectation on my shoulders. Um I think a great on my shoulders. Um I think a great on my shoulders. Um I think a great tenant of leadership is leadership comes tenant of leadership is leadership comes tenant of leadership is leadership comes with enough you have to carry on your with enough you have to carry on your with enough you have to carry on your shoulders. And one of them is with shoulders. And one of them is with shoulders. And one of them is with expectation setting and team building expectation setting and team building expectation setting and team building and delegation is this idea of do not and delegation is this idea of do not and delegation is this idea of do not carry on your shoulders what should be carry on your shoulders what should be carry on your shoulders what should be on the shoulders of others.

on the shoulders of others. on the shoulders of others. I think leaders who survive 40 years I think leaders who survive 40 years I think leaders who survive 40 years plus in leadership do that really well. plus in leadership do that really well. plus in leadership do that really well. And I've been fortunate enough to be And I've been fortunate enough to be And I've been fortunate enough to be around people who I think do that around people who I think do that around people who I think do that exceptionally well. You know, it's exceptionally well. You know, it's exceptionally well. You know, it's interesting. I'm so glad you shared that interesting. I'm so glad you shared that interesting. I'm so glad you shared that and good for you. I'd say prior to my and good for you. I'd say prior to my and good for you. I'd say prior to my first burnout, I was learning to grieve first burnout, I was learning to grieve first burnout, I was learning to grieve my losses because I was like you for the my losses because I was like you for the my losses because I was like you for the first 40 years. It's just like just keep first 40 years. It's just like just keep first 40 years. It's just like just keep it coming. I'm fine. I'm fine. Doesn't it coming. I'm fine. I'm fine. Doesn't it coming. I'm fine. I'm fine. Doesn't hurt. It's great. We're Let's go. And hurt. It's great. We're Let's go. And hurt. It's great. We're Let's go. And then it all imploded on me and that's then it all imploded on me and that's then it all imploded on me and that's where all the internal stuff came and where all the internal stuff came and where all the internal stuff came and that was my burnout back in ' 06. that was my burnout back in ' 06. that was my burnout back in ' 06. >> And since then, I've really paid >> And since then, I've really paid >> And since then, I've really paid attention to what Terry Wardle taught attention to what Terry Wardle taught attention to what Terry Wardle taught me. I referenced earlier. Grieve your me. I referenced earlier. Grieve your me. I referenced earlier. Grieve your losses. Grieve your losses. But normally losses. Grieve your losses. But normally losses. Grieve your losses. But normally for me, losses have come in sequence for me, losses have come in sequence for me, losses have come in sequence with gaps. In other words, somebody you with gaps. In other words, somebody you with gaps. In other words, somebody you really cared about died. I remember in really cared about died. I remember in really cared about died. I remember in 2017, I did like 2017, I did like 2017, I did like >> three funerals and two close personal >> three funerals and two close personal >> three funerals and two close personal losses within two months of each other. losses within two months of each other. losses within two months of each other. And that was a tough summer. That was a And that was a tough summer. That was a And that was a tough summer. That was a really tough summer, but I had the really tough summer, but I had the really tough summer, but I had the margin to grieve it, right? And then you margin to grieve it, right? And then you margin to grieve it, right? And then you kind of get on with it and you move kind of get on with it and you move kind of get on with it and you move through. And still once in a while through. And still once in a while through. And still once in a while there's a tear with one or two of those there's a tear with one or two of those there's a tear with one or two of those people who passed, people who passed, people who passed, >> you know, but but it feels processed. I >> you know, but but it feels processed. I >> you know, but but it feels processed. I think what was different about these think what was different about these think what was different about these last 14 months was they were coming so last 14 months was they were coming so last 14 months was they were coming so fast. There wasn't time in sequence to fast. There wasn't time in sequence to fast. There wasn't time in sequence to grieve it. It's like, "Oh, I got hit grieve it. It's like, "Oh, I got hit grieve it. It's like, "Oh, I got hit again." Well, yeah. Okay. I'm going to again." Well, yeah. Okay. I'm going to again." Well, yeah. Okay. I'm going to grieve. Oh, there it is again. Okay. All grieve. Oh, there it is again. Okay. All grieve. Oh, there it is again. Okay. All right. Yeah. Oh, I haven't even dealt right. Yeah. Oh, I haven't even dealt right. Yeah. Oh, I haven't even dealt with that one yet. And it was 29 and 14 with that one yet. And it was 29 and 14 with that one yet. And it was 29 and 14 months. Like, just do the math. It's months. Like, just do the math. It's months. Like, just do the math. It's like one every two weeks or and some of

like one every two weeks or and some of like one every two weeks or and some of them are really deep and some of them them are really deep and some of them them are really deep and some of them are ongoing like dad has dementia and are ongoing like dad has dementia and are ongoing like dad has dementia and mom has congestive heart failure and you mom has congestive heart failure and you mom has congestive heart failure and you know, so these are not going away. And know, so these are not going away. And know, so these are not going away. And so it was one of those things where you so it was one of those things where you so it was one of those things where you really want to process it. And I would really want to process it. And I would really want to process it. And I would agree. So Dr. C, this is our uh next agree. So Dr. C, this is our uh next agree. So Dr. C, this is our uh next session in uh therapy where I needed session in uh therapy where I needed session in uh therapy where I needed more time to process and I probably more time to process and I probably more time to process and I probably needed to step on the brake more than I needed to step on the brake more than I needed to step on the brake more than I did because had I grieved them in did because had I grieved them in did because had I grieved them in sequence, sequence, sequence, >> it would have been better. And >> it would have been better. And >> it would have been better. And fortunately, there was a hard stop and a fortunately, there was a hard stop and a fortunately, there was a hard stop and a lot of them moved to the rearview mirror lot of them moved to the rearview mirror lot of them moved to the rearview mirror and we got through it. But yeah, you and we got through it. But yeah, you and we got through it. But yeah, you just are not designed like the book of just are not designed like the book of just are not designed like the book of Job. It's just two or three chapters of Job. It's just two or three chapters of Job. It's just two or three chapters of events events events and then 38 chapters of processing and and then 38 chapters of processing and and then 38 chapters of processing and then a really cool chapter at the end, then a really cool chapter at the end, then a really cool chapter at the end, >> right? Or whatever the math is in that >> right? Or whatever the math is in that >> right? Or whatever the math is in that book. It's not like 42 chapters of book. It's not like 42 chapters of book. It's not like 42 chapters of events. events. events. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> It's all processing. And a lot of it was >> It's all processing. And a lot of it was >> It's all processing. And a lot of it was bad processing. In fact, totally right. bad processing. In fact, totally right. bad processing. In fact, totally right. Friends, Friends, Friends, >> I actually agree with Job's friends and >> I actually agree with Job's friends and >> I actually agree with Job's friends and they're all wrong.

they're all wrong. they're all wrong. >> They're all wrong. But I read it and I'm >> They're all wrong. But I read it and I'm >> They're all wrong. But I read it and I'm like, "No, that's a good point." No, like, "No, that's a good point." No, like, "No, that's a good point." No, that's a really good point. That's a that's a really good point. That's a that's a really good point. That's a good point. What did you do? Is there good point. What did you do? Is there good point. What did you do? Is there any sin in your life, Job? Like, there any sin in your life, Job? Like, there any sin in your life, Job? Like, there must be some unconfessed sin. must be some unconfessed sin. must be some unconfessed sin. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And you know, and God's like, "Nah, >> And you know, and God's like, "Nah, >> And you know, and God's like, "Nah, that's not it." So, if you think about that's not it." So, if you think about that's not it." So, if you think about it, right, there's that little bit of it, right, there's that little bit of it, right, there's that little bit of action and then there's all that action and then there's all that action and then there's all that processing for. So, for leaders who are processing for. So, for leaders who are processing for. So, for leaders who are going through it internally or going through it internally or going through it internally or externally, it's like that processing externally, it's like that processing externally, it's like that processing time is a lifeline. And if you don't and time is a lifeline. And if you don't and time is a lifeline. And if you don't and a sbatical isn't going to do it because a sbatical isn't going to do it because a sbatical isn't going to do it because that's six years away that's six years away that's six years away >> and your summer vacation is supposed to >> and your summer vacation is supposed to >> and your summer vacation is supposed to be for your family or for some rest. So be for your family or for some rest. So be for your family or for some rest. So you got to process it in real time. you got to process it in real time. you got to process it in real time. >> Amen. Yeah. >> Amen. Yeah. >> Amen. Yeah. >> You know, so I don't know how to do that >> You know, so I don't know how to do that >> You know, so I don't know how to do that with that much in the future to be with that much in the future to be with that much in the future to be honest with you if there's 29. honest with you if there's 29. honest with you if there's 29. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> I don't know. But I I mean I do I think >> I don't know. But I I mean I do I think >> I don't know. But I I mean I do I think one note now, one field note is I've got one note now, one field note is I've got one note now, one field note is I've got to spend some extra time to spend some extra time to spend some extra time processing. Yeah, processing. Yeah, processing. Yeah, >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> And I wonder if that's what undid so >> And I wonder if that's what undid so >> And I wonder if that's what undid so many leaders 5 years ago. many leaders 5 years ago. many leaders 5 years ago. >> I think I think so. >> I think I think so. >> I think I think so. >> It was just everything at once.

>> It was just everything at once. >> It was just everything at once. Everything all at once. Like that movie, Everything all at once. Like that movie, Everything all at once. Like that movie, which I haven't seen. which I haven't seen. which I haven't seen. >> Yeah. Don't. It's >> Yeah. Don't. It's >> Yeah. Don't. It's >> Oh, is it not good? I don't know. Don't >> Oh, is it not good? I don't know. Don't >> Oh, is it not good? I don't know. Don't know sports. Haven't watched 99.9% of know sports. Haven't watched 99.9% of know sports. Haven't watched 99.9% of all movies. So, all movies. So, all movies. So, >> yeah. You won't miss it. I I think >> yeah. You won't miss it. I I think >> yeah. You won't miss it. I I think this idea of, you know, I wrote down this idea of, you know, I wrote down this idea of, you know, I wrote down margin to grieve it and processing margin to grieve it and processing margin to grieve it and processing that might be one of the that might be one of the that might be one of the um um um most understated most understated most understated skills in in leadership. And I'm skills in in leadership. And I'm skills in in leadership. And I'm actually working on a book with like actually working on a book with like actually working on a book with like facets of leadership. It's just going to facets of leadership. It's just going to facets of leadership. It's just going to be like two or three pages on key topics be like two or three pages on key topics be like two or three pages on key topics of leadership. And this is this is one of leadership. And this is this is one of leadership. And this is this is one of them. The margin to process of them. The margin to process of them. The margin to process something. I I coach a lot of leaders something. I I coach a lot of leaders something. I I coach a lot of leaders that are in transition to become the that are in transition to become the that are in transition to become the lead pastor of a church. And so it's a lead pastor of a church. And so it's a lead pastor of a church. And so it's a big step for them. Some of them have big step for them. Some of them have big step for them. Some of them have maybe planted a church before or have maybe planted a church before or have maybe planted a church before or have been a lead pastor, but 95% of them been a lead pastor, but 95% of them been a lead pastor, but 95% of them probably have not been lead pastors probably have not been lead pastors probably have not been lead pastors before. And it's a huge whether the before. And it's a huge whether the before. And it's a huge whether the church is big or not. It's a huge role.

church is big or not. It's a huge role. church is big or not. It's a huge role. Um Um Um >> and you have a lot to process in that >> and you have a lot to process in that >> and you have a lot to process in that seat. seat. seat. >> You do. And one of the key things that I >> You do. And one of the key things that I >> You do. And one of the key things that I helped him understand is is building helped him understand is is building helped him understand is is building margin margin margin into into into daily life from now on. Like because daily life from now on. Like because daily life from now on. Like because like you just said, you you shouldn't like you just said, you you shouldn't like you just said, you you shouldn't spend your vacation spend your vacation spend your vacation recovering from things that the recovering from things that the recovering from things that the leadership of the church has caused you leadership of the church has caused you leadership of the church has caused you to carry. You're robbing. You're robbing to carry. You're robbing. You're robbing to carry. You're robbing. You're robbing from your family, you know. So you've from your family, you know. So you've from your family, you know. So you've got to figure out a rhythm where it's a got to figure out a rhythm where it's a got to figure out a rhythm where it's a sustainable rhythm going on and building sustainable rhythm going on and building sustainable rhythm going on and building margin. And I always tell leaders it's margin. And I always tell leaders it's margin. And I always tell leaders it's it's not just whites space on your it's not just whites space on your it's not just whites space on your calendar, but it is that too is you need calendar, but it is that too is you need calendar, but it is that too is you need 20% more than you had before. Like what 20% more than you had before. Like what 20% more than you had before. Like what got you here on the team will not get got you here on the team will not get got you here on the team will not get you there leading the team. And one of you there leading the team. And one of you there leading the team. And one of the keys is margin. And you're going to the keys is margin. And you're going to the keys is margin. And you're going to need 20% more. Um and then there's a need 20% more. Um and then there's a need 20% more. Um and then there's a phrase I say, see if I can get it right phrase I say, see if I can get it right phrase I say, see if I can get it right here. It's been a while since I used it, here. It's been a while since I used it, here. It's been a while since I used it, which is the moment you give your margin which is the moment you give your margin which is the moment you give your margin away will be the precise time when your away will be the precise time when your away will be the precise time when your organization demands more from you.

organization demands more from you. organization demands more from you. >> Mhm. You know, I have this saying which >> Mhm. You know, I have this saying which >> Mhm. You know, I have this saying which I've never published, but I think I can I've never published, but I think I can I've never published, but I think I can say it on your podcast. Like, think say it on your podcast. Like, think say it on your podcast. Like, think about funerals and crises. Death is about funerals and crises. Death is about funerals and crises. Death is never convenient. I've never in 30 years never convenient. I've never in 30 years never convenient. I've never in 30 years had somebody pass away at a convenient had somebody pass away at a convenient had somebody pass away at a convenient time. It's like, perfect, great. I got time. It's like, perfect, great. I got time. It's like, perfect, great. I got nothing on the calendar. It's always nothing on the calendar. It's always nothing on the calendar. It's always inconvenient. And so, well, now you got inconvenient. And so, well, now you got inconvenient. And so, well, now you got the funeral and the hospital visit and the funeral and the hospital visit and the funeral and the hospital visit and the family the family the family >> and the sermon and your kids soccer game >> and the sermon and your kids soccer game >> and the sermon and your kids soccer game and you got this and you got that and and you got this and you got that and and you got this and you got that and it's like that's just the life of a it's like that's just the life of a it's like that's just the life of a leader, right? leader, right? leader, right? >> And the capital campaign in >> And the capital campaign in >> And the capital campaign in >> where you're a little bit short still. >> where you're a little bit short still. >> where you're a little bit short still. So, you know, roll up your sleeves. So, you know, roll up your sleeves. So, you know, roll up your sleeves. Yeah. And I think I think having that Yeah. And I think I think having that Yeah. And I think I think having that kind of margin is so important and kind of margin is so important and kind of margin is so important and probably you need to create more. The probably you need to create more. The probably you need to create more. The other thing too which we haven't even other thing too which we haven't even other thing too which we haven't even tapped on is creativity always happens tapped on is creativity always happens tapped on is creativity always happens in the margins. in the margins. in the margins. >> There you go. >> There you go. >> There you go. >> Right. Like I was trying to put together >> Right. Like I was trying to put together >> Right. Like I was trying to put together a chapter in the book today and I a chapter in the book today and I a chapter in the book today and I noticed I was in the shower longer than noticed I was in the shower longer than noticed I was in the shower longer than I normally am and I'm like I got to get I normally am and I'm like I got to get I normally am and I'm like I got to get to writing and had a classic shower to writing and had a classic shower to writing and had a classic shower thought where I'm like, "Oh, right. This thought where I'm like, "Oh, right. This thought where I'm like, "Oh, right. This goes here and then that goes there and goes here and then that goes there and goes here and then that goes there and then you need to say this." And it came then you need to say this." And it came then you need to say this." And it came together. So we know from brain science.

together. So we know from brain science. together. So we know from brain science. Why does that happen? Because I'm not Why does that happen? Because I'm not Why does that happen? Because I'm not sitting at a keyboard. your brain is in sitting at a keyboard. your brain is in sitting at a keyboard. your brain is in passive gear. So when you're on a bike passive gear. So when you're on a bike passive gear. So when you're on a bike ride on that hike, you're gonna have a ride on that hike, you're gonna have a ride on that hike, you're gonna have a breakthrough idea when you're not trying breakthrough idea when you're not trying breakthrough idea when you're not trying to have the breakthrough idea. Now, you to have the breakthrough idea. Now, you to have the breakthrough idea. Now, you need to sit behind your keyboard, but need to sit behind your keyboard, but need to sit behind your keyboard, but all the creativity comes from the all the creativity comes from the all the creativity comes from the margin. And so if you really want, you margin. And so if you really want, you margin. And so if you really want, you know, an excellent sermon series next know, an excellent sermon series next know, an excellent sermon series next year or you want to um to have that year or you want to um to have that year or you want to um to have that breakthrough idea, that doesn't come by breakthrough idea, that doesn't come by breakthrough idea, that doesn't come by doing backto backto backto back doing backto backto backto back doing backto backto backto back meetings. meetings. meetings. >> I'll tell you what, you're reactionary. >> I'll tell you what, you're reactionary. >> I'll tell you what, you're reactionary. Here's another lesson. Here's another lesson. Here's another lesson. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> I get a lot of like book requests and >> I get a lot of like book requests and >> I get a lot of like book requests and proposals and will you write the forward proposals and will you write the forward proposals and will you write the forward and will you do this and will you do and will you do this and will you do and will you do this and will you do that and speaking requests and you know that and speaking requests and you know that and speaking requests and you know I'm honoring every commitment I can. I I'm honoring every commitment I can. I I'm honoring every commitment I can. I had to cancel a couple of uh commitments had to cancel a couple of uh commitments had to cancel a couple of uh commitments because I was in the hospital or not because I was in the hospital or not because I was in the hospital or not allowed to travel by the doctors but I'm allowed to travel by the doctors but I'm allowed to travel by the doctors but I'm like if I make a commitment I'm I'm in. like if I make a commitment I'm I'm in. like if I make a commitment I'm I'm in. But what I've been doing and it's really But what I've been doing and it's really But what I've been doing and it's really convenient right now when all those convenient right now when all those convenient right now when all those requests come in and we get multiples a requests come in and we get multiples a requests come in and we get multiples a week. It's like actually I'm in busy week. It's like actually I'm in busy week. It's like actually I'm in busy recovering from this condition. I'm recovering from this condition. I'm recovering from this condition. I'm taking on no extra work at this time and taking on no extra work at this time and taking on no extra work at this time and just like saying no to pretty much just like saying no to pretty much just like saying no to pretty much everybody and everybody and everybody and it's very liberating. Now I'm going to it's very liberating. Now I'm going to it's very liberating. Now I'm going to get better at some point, but does that get better at some point, but does that get better at some point, but does that change my filter level? And part of me change my filter level? And part of me change my filter level? And part of me feels guilty because I'm going to ask feels guilty because I'm going to ask feels guilty because I'm going to ask other people to help me with stuff in other people to help me with stuff in other people to help me with stuff in the future. But, you know, if you lead a the future. But, you know, if you lead a the future. But, you know, if you lead a large or demanding organization, there's large or demanding organization, there's large or demanding organization, there's a level of no that you have to be really a level of no that you have to be really a level of no that you have to be really comfortable at. And I can take it. Like,

comfortable at. And I can take it. Like, comfortable at. And I can take it. Like, I've asked Craig Rashelle, I mean, we I've asked Craig Rashelle, I mean, we I've asked Craig Rashelle, I mean, we mentioned him earlier, to help me out mentioned him earlier, to help me out mentioned him earlier, to help me out with one or two projects or we do this with one or two projects or we do this with one or two projects or we do this together and he'll be like, you know together and he'll be like, you know together and he'll be like, you know what, I'm going to take a pass on this what, I'm going to take a pass on this what, I'm going to take a pass on this one. And that's great. It doesn't impact one. And that's great. It doesn't impact one. And that's great. It doesn't impact the friendship. Um, you know, we still the friendship. Um, you know, we still the friendship. Um, you know, we still do. do. do. >> Yeah. You can't be offended by that. You >> Yeah. You can't be offended by that. You >> Yeah. You can't be offended by that. You can't be offended by it. Stay focused. can't be offended by it. Stay focused. can't be offended by it. Stay focused. It's it's okay for me to have other It's it's okay for me to have other It's it's okay for me to have other people say no to me, but it's not okay people say no to me, but it's not okay people say no to me, but it's not okay for me to say no to other people. So, for me to say no to other people. So, for me to say no to other people. So, and I mean, I know I wrote about that and I mean, I know I wrote about that and I mean, I know I wrote about that and at your best. I got a whole chapter and at your best. I got a whole chapter and at your best. I got a whole chapter on on, you know, all of that, you know, on on, you know, all of that, you know, on on, you know, all of that, you know, the categorical decisionm thing, but I the categorical decisionm thing, but I the categorical decisionm thing, but I think I have to probably take my think I have to probably take my think I have to probably take my categorical decision of what I do and categorical decision of what I do and categorical decision of what I do and don't do cuz at the end of the day, I don't do cuz at the end of the day, I don't do cuz at the end of the day, I just want to help people. I want to be a just want to help people. I want to be a just want to help people. I want to be a nice guy. But it's that that eats up nice guy. But it's that that eats up nice guy. But it's that that eats up your margin. And it's like, well, I said your margin. And it's like, well, I said your margin. And it's like, well, I said I was going to endorse it, but in this I was going to endorse it, but in this I was going to endorse it, but in this day, I have to read every book I day, I have to read every book I day, I have to read every book I endorse, and that means like that's a 7h endorse, and that means like that's a 7h endorse, and that means like that's a 7h hour prospect for two lines that may or hour prospect for two lines that may or hour prospect for two lines that may or may not appear on the book jacket. may not appear on the book jacket. may not appear on the book jacket. And so, you want to parcel those out in And so, you want to parcel those out in And so, you want to parcel those out in the right way. On the other hand, I was the right way. On the other hand, I was the right way. On the other hand, I was a first-time author and people endorsed a first-time author and people endorsed a first-time author and people endorsed my book who shouldn't have endorsed my my book who shouldn't have endorsed my my book who shouldn't have endorsed my book. So, you know, it's that tension of book. So, you know, it's that tension of book. So, you know, it's that tension of leadership where you're trying to figure leadership where you're trying to figure leadership where you're trying to figure that out in real time. But margin, lack that out in real time. But margin, lack that out in real time. But margin, lack of it is going to kill your creativity.

of it is going to kill your creativity. of it is going to kill your creativity. And I think in the age of AI, you're And I think in the age of AI, you're And I think in the age of AI, you're going to need more margin to process the going to need more margin to process the going to need more margin to process the rapid change that's going on to come up rapid change that's going on to come up rapid change that's going on to come up with the right responses to figure out with the right responses to figure out with the right responses to figure out what the strategy is. So, yeah, I'm what the strategy is. So, yeah, I'm what the strategy is. So, yeah, I'm probably going to need more margin. probably going to need more margin. probably going to need more margin. >> Best books for that. You have any? >> Best books for that. You have any? >> Best books for that. You have any? >> Um, there's a book by Richard Svenson >> Um, there's a book by Richard Svenson >> Um, there's a book by Richard Svenson written over 20 years ago. You're going written over 20 years ago. You're going written over 20 years ago. You're going to get like, you know, pagers and fax to get like, you know, pagers and fax to get like, you know, pagers and fax machines in it, but the principles are machines in it, but the principles are machines in it, but the principles are really good. It's called margin. really good. It's called margin. really good. It's called margin. >> Excellent. Anything from Cal Newport, >> Excellent. Anything from Cal Newport, >> Excellent. Anything from Cal Newport, from Slow Productivity to Deep Work, from Slow Productivity to Deep Work, from Slow Productivity to Deep Work, really good. Essentialism, Greg Mchuan, really good. Essentialism, Greg Mchuan, really good. Essentialism, Greg Mchuan, excellent book. I mean, you know, it's excellent book. I mean, you know, it's excellent book. I mean, you know, it's dated now. They've updated it, but the dated now. They've updated it, but the dated now. They've updated it, but the 4-hour work week, Tim Ferrris, it's more 4-hour work week, Tim Ferrris, it's more 4-hour work week, Tim Ferrris, it's more hacks. hacks. hacks. >> That's more a strategy book than >> That's more a strategy book than >> That's more a strategy book than anything, anything, anything, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> Um, those are some good books. Uh, >> Um, those are some good books. Uh, >> Um, those are some good books. Uh, Juliet Font has some good material. Um, Juliet Font has some good material. Um, Juliet Font has some good material. Um, she's got a book called A Minute to she's got a book called A Minute to she's got a book called A Minute to Think. Jordan Rener has written Think. Jordan Rener has written Think. Jordan Rener has written Redeeming Your Time. There's a lot of Redeeming Your Time. There's a lot of Redeeming Your Time. There's a lot of books in that space. It's just books in that space. It's just books in that space. It's just >> it's the ability to execute. And the >> it's the ability to execute. And the >> it's the ability to execute. And the hardest part, again, I wrote about this hardest part, again, I wrote about this hardest part, again, I wrote about this in my book on that subject at your best, in my book on that subject at your best, in my book on that subject at your best, >> but like I have to recalibrate this >> but like I have to recalibrate this >> but like I have to recalibrate this every six months. Like I'm actively this every six months. Like I'm actively this every six months. Like I'm actively this conversation is me recalibrating my conversation is me recalibrating my conversation is me recalibrating my theory for this season of life. And it's theory for this season of life. And it's theory for this season of life. And it's diminished capacity. That's what I had diminished capacity. That's what I had diminished capacity. That's what I had when I was sick. It's probably, you when I was sick. It's probably, you when I was sick. It's probably, you know, I'm not I might increase impact, know, I'm not I might increase impact, know, I'm not I might increase impact, but I can't increase capacity.

but I can't increase capacity. but I can't increase capacity. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Five years from now from what it is >> Five years from now from what it is >> Five years from now from what it is today, you know, we know what the odds today, you know, we know what the odds today, you know, we know what the odds are on that. The long game is at 70, are on that. The long game is at 70, are on that. The long game is at 70, you're not going to be quite as strong you're not going to be quite as strong you're not going to be quite as strong and energetic as you were at 60, as you and energetic as you were at 60, as you and energetic as you were at 60, as you were at 40, as you were at 20. So, you were at 40, as you were at 20. So, you were at 40, as you were at 20. So, you know, you know where the trajectory is know, you know where the trajectory is know, you know where the trajectory is going. On the other hand, I want to be going. On the other hand, I want to be going. On the other hand, I want to be the best version of 60 or 70 or what's the best version of 60 or 70 or what's the best version of 60 or 70 or what's ahead that I can be. ahead that I can be. ahead that I can be. You talked about diminished capacity. You talked about diminished capacity. You talked about diminished capacity. Obviously, that makes a lot of sense. Obviously, that makes a lot of sense. Obviously, that makes a lot of sense. >> That's depressing to say out loud. >> That's depressing to say out loud. >> That's depressing to say out loud. >> But let me ask you something totally >> But let me ask you something totally >> But let me ask you something totally different than the capacity thing in the different than the capacity thing in the different than the capacity thing in the time that you've had diminished time that you've had diminished time that you've had diminished capacity. capacity. capacity. How have your relationships been with How have your relationships been with How have your relationships been with Tony and the boys? You know, other than Tony and the boys? You know, other than Tony and the boys? You know, other than the crazy meds, amazing. Um, the one the crazy meds, amazing. Um, the one the crazy meds, amazing. Um, the one thing I really debated cuz I wasn't thing I really debated cuz I wasn't thing I really debated cuz I wasn't going to say anything publicly. I'm going to say anything publicly. I'm going to say anything publicly. I'm like, "Oh gosh, just let this thing like, "Oh gosh, just let this thing like, "Oh gosh, just let this thing pass." So, I'm lying in the emergency pass." So, I'm lying in the emergency pass." So, I'm lying in the emergency room and realizing, "Well, actually, I'm room and realizing, "Well, actually, I'm room and realizing, "Well, actually, I'm supposed to fly out tomorrow and go to supposed to fly out tomorrow and go to supposed to fly out tomorrow and go to Seattle and speak at an event and then Seattle and speak at an event and then Seattle and speak at an event and then go to California direct after that. I go to California direct after that. I go to California direct after that. I got to tell these guys something." So, I got to tell these guys something." So, I got to tell these guys something." So, I did. And we just let them know, hey, I'm did. And we just let them know, hey, I'm did. And we just let them know, hey, I'm so sorry. Surprise admission to the so sorry. Surprise admission to the so sorry. Surprise admission to the hospital. Not sure what's going on.

hospital. Not sure what's going on. hospital. Not sure what's going on. Can't make the conference. Feel terrible Can't make the conference. Feel terrible Can't make the conference. Feel terrible about it. But I wasn't going to say about it. But I wasn't going to say about it. But I wasn't going to say anything on social media. And then the anything on social media. And then the anything on social media. And then the next day I kind of woke up and I'm like, next day I kind of woke up and I'm like, next day I kind of woke up and I'm like, well, I woke up in a hospital. I think I well, I woke up in a hospital. I think I well, I woke up in a hospital. I think I better say something. There's a lot of better say something. There's a lot of better say something. There's a lot of people who have been very nice to me. people who have been very nice to me. people who have been very nice to me. And so I just did that post, which you And so I just did that post, which you And so I just did that post, which you know, you saw and lots of other people know, you saw and lots of other people know, you saw and lots of other people saw. And the response of the church was saw. And the response of the church was saw. And the response of the church was unbelievable. I was not ready for how unbelievable. I was not ready for how unbelievable. I was not ready for how much kindness, how much goodness, how much kindness, how much goodness, how much kindness, how much goodness, how many prayers, how many texts, how many many prayers, how many texts, how many many prayers, how many texts, how many DMs, how many people were genuinely, DMs, how many people were genuinely, DMs, how many people were genuinely, honestly, authentically honestly, authentically honestly, authentically concerned. and the number of people who concerned. and the number of people who concerned. and the number of people who have tracked uh people who are way too have tracked uh people who are way too have tracked uh people who are way too busy to track busy to track busy to track >> who have tracked with me. Um lots of >> who have tracked with me. Um lots of >> who have tracked with me. Um lots of people I know, lots of people I don't people I know, lots of people I don't people I know, lots of people I don't know. So, it made me incredibly grateful know. So, it made me incredibly grateful know. So, it made me incredibly grateful for people and and that was true like for people and and that was true like for people and and that was true like doctors that you know cuz I've been in doctors that you know cuz I've been in doctors that you know cuz I've been in the same community for 30 years. Some of the same community for 30 years. Some of the same community for 30 years. Some of the doctors who weren't on my case came the doctors who weren't on my case came the doctors who weren't on my case came in in their off hours cuz they were in in their off hours cuz they were in in their off hours cuz they were Christians or involved in our church or Christians or involved in our church or Christians or involved in our church or another church another church another church >> just to sit with me and kind of give me >> just to sit with me and kind of give me >> just to sit with me and kind of give me their perspective on what was happening. their perspective on what was happening. their perspective on what was happening. I was overwhelmed I was overwhelmed I was overwhelmed >> relationally and I also realized at the >> relationally and I also realized at the >> relationally and I also realized at the end of the day end of the day end of the day >> like you know that trip to New York City >> like you know that trip to New York City >> like you know that trip to New York City Tony and I had three days where it was Tony and I had three days where it was Tony and I had three days where it was just us and I'm like no I'm going deep just us and I'm like no I'm going deep just us and I'm like no I'm going deep with you girl like come on let's go and with you girl like come on let's go and with you girl like come on let's go and and that's true with friends too you and that's true with friends too you and that's true with friends too you know we had Father's Day recently here know we had Father's Day recently here know we had Father's Day recently here we're recording this in June it was like we're recording this in June it was like we're recording this in June it was like eight hours with my youngest son eight hours with my youngest son eight hours with my youngest son sometime tonight with my oldest and um sometime tonight with my oldest and um sometime tonight with my oldest and um just really really and treasuring my just really really and treasuring my just really really and treasuring my team treasuring the people around me, team treasuring the people around me, team treasuring the people around me, Dunbar's number, that inner circle of

Dunbar's number, that inner circle of Dunbar's number, that inner circle of three to five friends. three to five friends. three to five friends. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Just really really treasuring that. And >> Just really really treasuring that. And >> Just really really treasuring that. And at the end of the day, it's at the end of the day, it's at the end of the day, it's relationships and your character that relationships and your character that relationships and your character that matter the most. Um, and so I I really matter the most. Um, and so I I really matter the most. Um, and so I I really want to focus on that, but I still want want to focus on that, but I still want want to focus on that, but I still want to work. I love what I do. to work. I love what I do. to work. I love what I do. >> I do love what I do. And uh let's let's >> I do love what I do. And uh let's let's >> I do love what I do. And uh let's let's shift gears a little bit cuz I I was shift gears a little bit cuz I I was shift gears a little bit cuz I I was thinking about that you this is more of thinking about that you this is more of thinking about that you this is more of a succession thing. We have a big a succession thing. We have a big a succession thing. We have a big succession audience tracking with us. succession audience tracking with us. succession audience tracking with us. How important was having something you How important was having something you How important was having something you love to do to go to even though that's love to do to go to even though that's love to do to go to even though that's changed a lot. What the what your changed a lot. What the what your changed a lot. What the what your organization looks like today and what organization looks like today and what organization looks like today and what it looked like at the time of of it looked like at the time of of it looked like at the time of of transition with Brody is is different transition with Brody is is different transition with Brody is is different but you had something there. You had but you had something there. You had but you had something there. You had vision. You had inspiration. You had vision. You had inspiration. You had vision. You had inspiration. You had something. How important has that been something. How important has that been something. How important has that been to you? to you? to you? >> It's huge. I mean, that was part of my >> It's huge. I mean, that was part of my >> It's huge. I mean, that was part of my getting ready to turn 60 reflections for getting ready to turn 60 reflections for getting ready to turn 60 reflections for a year and I thought about, you know, a a year and I thought about, you know, a a year and I thought about, you know, a lot of my friends are retiring and the lot of my friends are retiring and the lot of my friends are retiring and the question is, do you have any grandkids?

question is, do you have any grandkids? question is, do you have any grandkids? Nope, we don't. One day, maybe. We don't Nope, we don't. One day, maybe. We don't Nope, we don't. One day, maybe. We don't know. But, um, if you look at how our know. But, um, if you look at how our know. But, um, if you look at how our culture approaches life, you're supposed culture approaches life, you're supposed culture approaches life, you're supposed to reach a certain stage where to reach a certain stage where to reach a certain stage where theoretically in some magical economy theoretically in some magical economy theoretically in some magical economy that doesn't exist, you have enough that doesn't exist, you have enough that doesn't exist, you have enough money that you don't need to work money that you don't need to work money that you don't need to work anymore. And I know this is a pastoral anymore. And I know this is a pastoral anymore. And I know this is a pastoral audience, so I'm not trying to rub salt audience, so I'm not trying to rub salt audience, so I'm not trying to rub salt into an open wound, but um you know, the into an open wound, but um you know, the into an open wound, but um you know, the idea is you don't work anymore and then idea is you don't work anymore and then idea is you don't work anymore and then you move into consumption mode. So it's you move into consumption mode. So it's you move into consumption mode. So it's endless beaches, endless vacations. And endless beaches, endless vacations. And endless beaches, endless vacations. And literally a week, yeah, a week before I literally a week, yeah, a week before I literally a week, yeah, a week before I landed in hospital, we're on the beach landed in hospital, we're on the beach landed in hospital, we're on the beach at my third all-inclusive in Kurasowl. at my third all-inclusive in Kurasowl. at my third all-inclusive in Kurasowl. You know, all the stereotypes like it's You know, all the stereotypes like it's You know, all the stereotypes like it's just, you know, beaches and palm trees just, you know, beaches and palm trees just, you know, beaches and palm trees and ocean and it was amazing. We had a and ocean and it was amazing. We had a and ocean and it was amazing. We had a great time. And I'm like, in a week is great time. And I'm like, in a week is great time. And I'm like, in a week is plenty. Like, and Tony agrees. And so plenty. Like, and Tony agrees. And so plenty. Like, and Tony agrees. And so I've been thinking about that. And my I've been thinking about that. And my I've been thinking about that. And my metaphor is I think we were not metaphor is I think we were not metaphor is I think we were not designed, we were designed to consume in designed, we were designed to consume in designed, we were designed to consume in small quantities. It's like food. Eat small quantities. It's like food. Eat small quantities. It's like food. Eat healthy, enjoy your meal, but you know, healthy, enjoy your meal, but you know, healthy, enjoy your meal, but you know, at some point, shut up and move on, at some point, shut up and move on, at some point, shut up and move on, right? You're done this meal. Move on.

right? You're done this meal. Move on. right? You're done this meal. Move on. And so take a vacation, enjoy your And so take a vacation, enjoy your And so take a vacation, enjoy your backyard, um, you know, go for a bike backyard, um, you know, go for a bike backyard, um, you know, go for a bike ride or whatever. But we're not designed ride or whatever. But we're not designed ride or whatever. But we're not designed to do endless vacations. And now, you to do endless vacations. And now, you to do endless vacations. And now, you know, our culture on social media, know, our culture on social media, know, our culture on social media, people, you know, 30 years ago, people people, you know, 30 years ago, people people, you know, 30 years ago, people took one vacation a year. Now they take took one vacation a year. Now they take took one vacation a year. Now they take 18 and the retirement is and then we're 18 and the retirement is and then we're 18 and the retirement is and then we're in Croatia and then we went to France in Croatia and then we went to France in Croatia and then we went to France and then we did this and we did a and then we did this and we did a and then we did this and we did a private and we did this and we did that private and we did this and we did that private and we did this and we did that and I'm like and I'm like and I'm like like you can only lie on a beach for so like you can only lie on a beach for so like you can only lie on a beach for so long. So for me, you know, where the long. So for me, you know, where the long. So for me, you know, where the where the joy is is not in consumption. where the joy is is not in consumption. where the joy is is not in consumption. I do enjoy consuming in moderation. I do enjoy consuming in moderation. I do enjoy consuming in moderation. >> It's in contribution. >> It's in contribution. >> It's in contribution. And I think God designed us to create. And I think God designed us to create. And I think God designed us to create. He designed us to contribute. And so He designed us to contribute. And so He designed us to contribute. And so what I want to do in the next 20 years what I want to do in the next 20 years what I want to do in the next 20 years is I want to contribute. And if I can is I want to contribute. And if I can is I want to contribute. And if I can contribute to the dialogue, if I can contribute to the dialogue, if I can contribute to the dialogue, if I can contribute to the things that help the contribute to the things that help the contribute to the things that help the church in its mission, that help church in its mission, that help church in its mission, that help leaders, that is a greater joy than leaders, that is a greater joy than leaders, that is a greater joy than lying on the beach forever. I I'll go lying on the beach forever. I I'll go lying on the beach forever. I I'll go once or twice a year and lie on the once or twice a year and lie on the once or twice a year and lie on the beach. We'll, you know, we have a beach. We'll, you know, we have a beach. We'll, you know, we have a vacation coming up this summer where go vacation coming up this summer where go vacation coming up this summer where go to this little cabin an hour north of us to this little cabin an hour north of us to this little cabin an hour north of us and drive our boat for a week, but a and drive our boat for a week, but a and drive our boat for a week, but a week's plenty. You know, get a couple of week's plenty. You know, get a couple of week's plenty. You know, get a couple of doses. I take generally 6 weeks a year doses. I take generally 6 weeks a year doses. I take generally 6 weeks a year where I'm kind of in nonwork mode and at where I'm kind of in nonwork mode and at where I'm kind of in nonwork mode and at this point at 60, that's plenty. I don't this point at 60, that's plenty. I don't this point at 60, that's plenty. I don't need more.

need more. need more. >> Um, maybe I'll say differently at 65 or >> Um, maybe I'll say differently at 65 or >> Um, maybe I'll say differently at 65 or 70. Um, maybe my health will change. I 70. Um, maybe my health will change. I 70. Um, maybe my health will change. I don't know. Someone else's health will don't know. Someone else's health will don't know. Someone else's health will change, but that that's enough. change, but that that's enough. change, but that that's enough. >> And I want to contribute. So what does >> And I want to contribute. So what does >> And I want to contribute. So what does contribution look like? You know, and contribution look like? You know, and contribution look like? You know, and for, you know, one of the big issues you for, you know, one of the big issues you for, you know, one of the big issues you and I have talked about, we deal with in and I have talked about, we deal with in and I have talked about, we deal with in our course our course our course >> is, you know, a lot of guys in my >> is, you know, a lot of guys in my >> is, you know, a lot of guys in my position, they don't want to leave position, they don't want to leave position, they don't want to leave because they can't imagine not because they can't imagine not because they can't imagine not contributing or they need the salary. contributing or they need the salary. contributing or they need the salary. >> But on the other hand, well, >> But on the other hand, well, >> But on the other hand, well, contribution can look like a million contribution can look like a million contribution can look like a million different things. It can be um a Zoom different things. It can be um a Zoom different things. It can be um a Zoom call for free for pastors. It could be call for free for pastors. It could be call for free for pastors. It could be meeting somebody down the road for meeting somebody down the road for meeting somebody down the road for coffee. It could be, you know, writing a coffee. It could be, you know, writing a coffee. It could be, you know, writing a book that maybe sells a thousand copies. book that maybe sells a thousand copies. book that maybe sells a thousand copies. That's fine. You know, you helped a That's fine. You know, you helped a That's fine. You know, you helped a thousand people. That's great. It's not thousand people. That's great. It's not thousand people. That's great. It's not New York Times bestseller. So what? Like New York Times bestseller. So what? Like New York Times bestseller. So what? Like contribution can be redefined according contribution can be redefined according contribution can be redefined according to season and stage. And so you just got to season and stage. And so you just got to season and stage. And so you just got to look at that. And Tony and I, we're to look at that. And Tony and I, we're to look at that. And Tony and I, we're pretty tight on we want to be pretty tight on we want to be pretty tight on we want to be contributing into our 80s or however contributing into our 80s or however contributing into our 80s or however many years God gives us. And one day many years God gives us. And one day many years God gives us. And one day that may not be paid. That's fine. that may not be paid. That's fine. that may not be paid. That's fine. That's fine. That's fine. That's fine. >> Well, and I love that contribution looks >> Well, and I love that contribution looks >> Well, and I love that contribution looks different in different stages, too. And different in different stages, too. And different in different stages, too. And um you know you you interviewed Eldridge um you know you you interviewed Eldridge um you know you you interviewed Eldridge and he talked about the the king stage, and he talked about the the king stage, and he talked about the the king stage, the sage stage and you know it's like the sage stage and you know it's like the sage stage and you know it's like the word retirement isn't in the Bible.

the word retirement isn't in the Bible. the word retirement isn't in the Bible. The picture of doing nothing isn't The picture of doing nothing isn't The picture of doing nothing isn't really in the Bible outside of uh a day really in the Bible outside of uh a day really in the Bible outside of uh a day of rest um and maybe some some Sabbath of rest um and maybe some some Sabbath of rest um and maybe some some Sabbath type things. type things. type things. >> Well, and that's where where where >> Well, and that's where where where >> Well, and that's where where where Arthur Brooks and and um John Eldridge Arthur Brooks and and um John Eldridge Arthur Brooks and and um John Eldridge come together. You know, if you look at come together. You know, if you look at come together. You know, if you look at his different stages around his different stages around his different stages around >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> this age, Arthur Brooks would date it >> this age, Arthur Brooks would date it >> this age, Arthur Brooks would date it after 40. That's where he moved from after 40. That's where he moved from after 40. That's where he moved from fluid to crystallized intelligence. This fluid to crystallized intelligence. This fluid to crystallized intelligence. This idea of wisdom. And one thing, and I idea of wisdom. And one thing, and I idea of wisdom. And one thing, and I it's funny, I've told Arthur, like I it's funny, I've told Arthur, like I it's funny, I've told Arthur, like I found that at 42. I still remember the found that at 42. I still remember the found that at 42. I still remember the season where, you know, my 30s, I burned season where, you know, my 30s, I burned season where, you know, my 30s, I burned out at 41. My 30s were rapid growth out at 41. My 30s were rapid growth out at 41. My 30s were rapid growth years. We had 15 to 30% growth year years. We had 15 to 30% growth year years. We had 15 to 30% growth year after year after year, which is just after year after year, which is just after year after year, which is just amazing and exhausting. But everything amazing and exhausting. But everything amazing and exhausting. But everything seemed random. The relational patterns seemed random. The relational patterns seemed random. The relational patterns seemed random. The weirdness seemed seemed random. The weirdness seemed seemed random. The weirdness seemed random. The church scandals seemed random. The church scandals seemed random. The church scandals seemed random. Scandals. There weren't random. Scandals. There weren't random. Scandals. There weren't scandals, but you know where somebody's scandals, but you know where somebody's scandals, but you know where somebody's mad at you about something or an elder mad at you about something or an elder mad at you about something or an elder resigns or what. I don't even think we resigns or what. I don't even think we resigns or what. I don't even think we had elders resigning, but some I wanted had elders resigning, but some I wanted had elders resigning, but some I wanted to fire. But anyway, that's another to fire. But anyway, that's another to fire. But anyway, that's another story for another day. Uh, but you know story for another day. Uh, but you know story for another day. Uh, but you know what I mean. Just the the dayto-day of what I mean. Just the the dayto-day of what I mean. Just the the dayto-day of leadership where you got to fire a staff leadership where you got to fire a staff leadership where you got to fire a staff member, but it all seemed random. And member, but it all seemed random. And member, but it all seemed random. And then and then at 42, I remember somebody then and then at 42, I remember somebody then and then at 42, I remember somebody going, "Yeah, we're leaving the church."

going, "Yeah, we're leaving the church." going, "Yeah, we're leaving the church." And I'm like, "Oh, well, that's exactly And I'm like, "Oh, well, that's exactly And I'm like, "Oh, well, that's exactly like what happened with this person and like what happened with this person and like what happened with this person and that person and this person and I that person and this person and I that person and this person and I started to connect the dots and I would started to connect the dots and I would started to connect the dots and I would see the pattern." And basically, you see the pattern." And basically, you see the pattern." And basically, you know, if you were to see me at a party know, if you were to see me at a party know, if you were to see me at a party and say, "What do you do?" Sometimes I and say, "What do you do?" Sometimes I and say, "What do you do?" Sometimes I tell people, "I connect dots. That's all tell people, "I connect dots. That's all tell people, "I connect dots. That's all I do. I just sit down and I'll look for I do. I just sit down and I'll look for I do. I just sit down and I'll look for the common denominator and I'm like, the common denominator and I'm like, the common denominator and I'm like, "Oh, that connects to this, connects to "Oh, that connects to this, connects to "Oh, that connects to this, connects to this." That started for me less than 20 this." That started for me less than 20 this." That started for me less than 20 years ago. And Arthur Brook says that's years ago. And Arthur Brook says that's years ago. And Arthur Brook says that's actually the function of how we develop actually the function of how we develop actually the function of how we develop as human beings that our brain does as human beings that our brain does as human beings that our brain does different things that move from different things that move from different things that move from crystallized to fluid int fluid to crystallized to fluid int fluid to crystallized to fluid int fluid to crystallized intelligence. And Eldridge crystallized intelligence. And Eldridge crystallized intelligence. And Eldridge would make the same thing, right? He'd would make the same thing, right? He'd would make the same thing, right? He'd make the same argument. He'd be like, make the same argument. He'd be like, make the same argument. He'd be like, "No, at 60 you shouldn't be, right?" "No, at 60 you shouldn't be, right?" "No, at 60 you shouldn't be, right?" Like in sports, you're the player, Like in sports, you're the player, Like in sports, you're the player, you're the rookie, you're the all-star, you're the rookie, you're the all-star, you're the rookie, you're the all-star, and then you're the player coach, and and then you're the player coach, and and then you're the player coach, and then you're the coach. then you're the coach. then you're the coach. >> And you need to get into that coach >> And you need to get into that coach >> And you need to get into that coach phase. And I think those of us who've phase. And I think those of us who've phase. And I think those of us who've been through a few laps, we can maybe been through a few laps, we can maybe been through a few laps, we can maybe coach younger leaders, which is what I coach younger leaders, which is what I coach younger leaders, which is what I love doing to avoid some pitfalls and um love doing to avoid some pitfalls and um love doing to avoid some pitfalls and um you know go further faster as they say you know go further faster as they say you know go further faster as they say along those lines of along those lines of along those lines of learning along the way. Sage Yoda learning along the way. Sage Yoda learning along the way. Sage Yoda wisdom. I'm going to throw a quote at wisdom. I'm going to throw a quote at wisdom. I'm going to throw a quote at you and just love for you to process you and just love for you to process you and just love for you to process this in terms of wisdom along the way.

this in terms of wisdom along the way. this in terms of wisdom along the way. things you see now that you didn't see things you see now that you didn't see things you see now that you didn't see 10, 20 years ago. It's Henry David 10, 20 years ago. It's Henry David 10, 20 years ago. It's Henry David Thorough and it says, I don't think this Thorough and it says, I don't think this Thorough and it says, I don't think this is actually a hard quote. I think it's a is actually a hard quote. I think it's a is actually a hard quote. I think it's a summary of some of his words, but many summary of some of his words, but many summary of some of his words, but many men go fishing all of their lives men go fishing all of their lives men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it's not a fish without knowing that it's not a fish without knowing that it's not a fish thereafter. thereafter. thereafter. >> It's funny, I read a lot of thorough >> It's funny, I read a lot of thorough >> It's funny, I read a lot of thorough last year. last year. last year. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, my reflection, this is where my I mean, my reflection, this is where my I mean, my reflection, this is where my mind goes is Yeah. You can chase growth mind goes is Yeah. You can chase growth mind goes is Yeah. You can chase growth as a young leader. You can chase size. as a young leader. You can chase size. as a young leader. You can chase size. You can chase the outreach 100 list. You You can chase the outreach 100 list. You You can chase the outreach 100 list. You can chase, you know, whatever your your can chase, you know, whatever your your can chase, you know, whatever your your title is. You can chase podcast title is. You can chase podcast title is. You can chase podcast downloads. You can chase whatever. But I downloads. You can chase whatever. But I downloads. You can chase whatever. But I think at the end of the day, what I'm think at the end of the day, what I'm think at the end of the day, what I'm really chasing is meaning, significance, really chasing is meaning, significance, really chasing is meaning, significance, love, love, love, >> affection, >> affection, >> affection, relationship. relationship. relationship. And it's funny, the thing you think is And it's funny, the thing you think is And it's funny, the thing you think is going to get you there going to get you there going to get you there actually pushes that stuff away actually pushes that stuff away actually pushes that stuff away the harder you achieve. I mean, the harder you achieve. I mean, the harder you achieve. I mean, Theorough lived in a really tiny cabin, Theorough lived in a really tiny cabin, Theorough lived in a really tiny cabin, probably not quite the size of my probably not quite the size of my probably not quite the size of my office, and you know, everyone thinks he office, and you know, everyone thinks he office, and you know, everyone thinks he was way in the wilderness. He was only a was way in the wilderness. He was only a was way in the wilderness. He was only a couple miles from town. And he would couple miles from town. And he would couple miles from town. And he would entertain visitors and so on, but he entertain visitors and so on, but he entertain visitors and so on, but he would see the striving. and he found it would see the striving. and he found it would see the striving. and he found it really hard to move back into town after really hard to move back into town after really hard to move back into town after he abandoned his he abandoned his he abandoned his >> because he saw, you know, the railroad >> because he saw, you know, the railroad >> because he saw, you know, the railroad had come and everything mid-cent 19th had come and everything mid-cent 19th had come and everything mid-cent 19th century America.

century America. century America. >> And so Theorough was was that >> And so Theorough was was that >> And so Theorough was was that interesting interesting interesting character who kind of saw it and then character who kind of saw it and then character who kind of saw it and then couldn't quite I wonder if you know couldn't quite I wonder if you know couldn't quite I wonder if you know sometimes if that's what happened to sometimes if that's what happened to sometimes if that's what happened to Vincent Van Gogh is he saw so clearly. Vincent Van Gogh is he saw so clearly. Vincent Van Gogh is he saw so clearly. We went to the Met and saw more original We went to the Met and saw more original We went to the Met and saw more original Van Goes. Wow. Van Goes. Wow. Van Goes. Wow. >> We've seen a bunch of them. And like the >> We've seen a bunch of them. And like the >> We've seen a bunch of them. And like the guy was geniusly talented, but if you guy was geniusly talented, but if you guy was geniusly talented, but if you read his letters, his letters are read his letters, his letters are read his letters, his letters are published on the internet to his brother published on the internet to his brother published on the internet to his brother Theo. Theo. Theo. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> And you know, he really saw deeply into >> And you know, he really saw deeply into >> And you know, he really saw deeply into human desire. And there's a certain human desire. And there's a certain human desire. And there's a certain point at which the psyche just point at which the psyche just point at which the psyche just disconnects and says, I can't I can't disconnects and says, I can't I can't disconnects and says, I can't I can't live in this rat race. And so, you know, live in this rat race. And so, you know, live in this rat race. And so, you know, fortunately, I think God has done better fortunately, I think God has done better fortunately, I think God has done better than cutting off your ear and committing than cutting off your ear and committing than cutting off your ear and committing suicide in Veno's case, or thorough, who suicide in Veno's case, or thorough, who suicide in Veno's case, or thorough, who never he really didn't embrace never he really didn't embrace never he really didn't embrace Christianity. Um, God has done a lot Christianity. Um, God has done a lot Christianity. Um, God has done a lot better in giving us the gift of each better in giving us the gift of each better in giving us the gift of each other and the gift of his son Jesus. And other and the gift of his son Jesus. And other and the gift of his son Jesus. And I think that is where our contentment, I think that is where our contentment, I think that is where our contentment, you know, I spent some time with some of you know, I spent some time with some of you know, I spent some time with some of Keller's team in New York and just Keller's team in New York and just Keller's team in New York and just reflecting on his legacy reflecting on his legacy reflecting on his legacy >> and interviewing another one of his >> and interviewing another one of his >> and interviewing another one of his biographers for my podcast. And that's biographers for my podcast. And that's biographers for my podcast. And that's someone, the deeper I go on Keller, the someone, the deeper I go on Keller, the someone, the deeper I go on Keller, the more I realize two things. Number one, more I realize two things. Number one, more I realize two things. Number one, he had a real friendship with God. A he had a real friendship with God. A he had a real friendship with God. A real friendship with God. Like he really real friendship with God. Like he really real friendship with God. Like he really considered Jesus to be his friend, which considered Jesus to be his friend, which considered Jesus to be his friend, which is weird because he's so intellectual.

is weird because he's so intellectual. is weird because he's so intellectual. But the second thing is, and this is But the second thing is, and this is But the second thing is, and this is what nobody really knows about Tim or I what nobody really knows about Tim or I what nobody really knows about Tim or I didn't know about Tim is, you know, we didn't know about Tim is, you know, we didn't know about Tim is, you know, we say his legacy lives on in his preaching say his legacy lives on in his preaching say his legacy lives on in his preaching in his books. True. But you can't spend in his books. True. But you can't spend in his books. True. But you can't spend 10 minutes at a church leaders 10 minutes at a church leaders 10 minutes at a church leaders conference in New York without some conference in New York without some conference in New York without some NextGen church leader bringing up Tim's NextGen church leader bringing up Tim's NextGen church leader bringing up Tim's name and saying, "Tim," Tim used to have name and saying, "Tim," Tim used to have name and saying, "Tim," Tim used to have coffee with me. Tim had me in one of his coffee with me. Tim had me in one of his coffee with me. Tim had me in one of his cohorts. I was in one of Tim's seminar's cohorts. I was in one of Tim's seminar's cohorts. I was in one of Tim's seminar's class. He would come over from Roosevelt class. He would come over from Roosevelt class. He would come over from Roosevelt Island and answer questions till 11 Island and answer questions till 11 Island and answer questions till 11 o'clock at night with a group of pastors o'clock at night with a group of pastors o'clock at night with a group of pastors I was discipling. His fingerprints I was discipling. His fingerprints I was discipling. His fingerprints are all over that next generation of are all over that next generation of are all over that next generation of leaders in New York City. leaders in New York City. leaders in New York City. >> So when you think about the legacy that >> So when you think about the legacy that >> So when you think about the legacy that Tim Keller left, Tim Keller left, Tim Keller left, >> yeah, it exists on the pages, but it >> yeah, it exists on the pages, but it >> yeah, it exists on the pages, but it really exists in the people. And so when really exists in the people. And so when really exists in the people. And so when I think about that Walden quote, I think about that Walden quote, I think about that Walden quote, >> I think about all the stuff you're >> I think about all the stuff you're >> I think about all the stuff you're chasing is actually the chase to find chasing is actually the chase to find chasing is actually the chase to find what you're really chasing. And when you what you're really chasing. And when you what you're really chasing. And when you really find it, then perhaps you'll be really find it, then perhaps you'll be really find it, then perhaps you'll be satisfied. But it's not what you think satisfied. But it's not what you think satisfied. But it's not what you think it is. it is. it is. >> Yeah. So good. So good. Well, Carrie, >> Yeah. So good. So good. Well, Carrie, >> Yeah. So good. So good. Well, Carrie, this has been maybe my favorite podcast this has been maybe my favorite podcast this has been maybe my favorite podcast interview. This was super rich. We interview. This was super rich. We interview. This was super rich. We didn't have much structure, man.

didn't have much structure, man. didn't have much structure, man. >> We didn't know. We're just >> We didn't know. We're just >> We didn't know. We're just >> I texted you this morning. I said, "You >> I texted you this morning. I said, "You >> I texted you this morning. I said, "You can talk about my health." That's fine. can talk about my health." That's fine. can talk about my health." That's fine. So, here we are. So, here we are. So, here we are. >> No, but it feels like dinner, man. It >> No, but it feels like dinner, man. It >> No, but it feels like dinner, man. It feels like uh feels like uh feels like uh >> like just conversation or in the >> like just conversation or in the >> like just conversation or in the backyard or at the fireplace or fire pit backyard or at the fireplace or fire pit backyard or at the fireplace or fire pit or whatever. No, this has been really or whatever. No, this has been really or whatever. No, this has been really really enjoyable for me too. Thanks for really enjoyable for me too. Thanks for really enjoyable for me too. Thanks for >> permission just to talk and consider and >> permission just to talk and consider and >> permission just to talk and consider and reflect. I hope it's been helpful to reflect. I hope it's been helpful to reflect. I hope it's been helpful to other people. I've enjoyed it. other people. I've enjoyed it. other people. I've enjoyed it. >> Hugely helpful just being a part of this >> Hugely helpful just being a part of this >> Hugely helpful just being a part of this and I'm overjoyed to think about people and I'm overjoyed to think about people and I'm overjoyed to think about people that we get to share it with and um I'll that we get to share it with and um I'll that we get to share it with and um I'll let you know what I hear back and let you know what I hear back and let you know what I hear back and hopefully you'll hear some things too hopefully you'll hear some things too hopefully you'll hear some things too from some of our listeners that from some of our listeners that from some of our listeners that >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. This is uh this is really rich. Thanks This is uh this is really rich. Thanks This is uh this is really rich. Thanks for your friendship. I really appreciate for your friendship. I really appreciate for your friendship. I really appreciate it. You know, the older I get. And this it. You know, the older I get. And this it. You know, the older I get. And this is actually one of the presenting is actually one of the presenting is actually one of the presenting issues. Dr. Chappelle when I started issues. Dr. Chappelle when I started issues. Dr. Chappelle when I started working with him maybe four or five working with him maybe four or five working with him maybe four or five years ago, we really been working on years ago, we really been working on years ago, we really been working on that inner circle of Dunar's number. that inner circle of Dunar's number. that inner circle of Dunar's number. Those three to five friends, those 10 to Those three to five friends, those 10 to Those three to five friends, those 10 to 15 friends who know you well. And one of 15 friends who know you well. And one of 15 friends who know you well. And one of the things I so appreciate about your the things I so appreciate about your the things I so appreciate about your friendship is we just pick up where we friendship is we just pick up where we friendship is we just pick up where we left off and there's no uh left off and there's no uh left off and there's no uh >> and we talk about everything. We talk >> and we talk about everything. We talk >> and we talk about everything. We talk about this, we talk about work, we talk about this, we talk about work, we talk about this, we talk about work, we talk about podcasts, about podcasts, about podcasts, >> all of that. And so I'm just really >> all of that. And so I'm just really >> all of that. And so I'm just really grateful for you, man. And and bummed we grateful for you, man. And and bummed we grateful for you, man. And and bummed we didn't get to hang out in Davis didn't get to hang out in Davis didn't get to hang out in Davis >> because I was in the hospital, but uh >> because I was in the hospital, but uh >> because I was in the hospital, but uh looking forward to the next time.

looking forward to the next time. looking forward to the next time. >> Absolutely. Yep. I I say, you know, I've >> Absolutely. Yep. I I say, you know, I've >> Absolutely. Yep. I I say, you know, I've gotten to know Tick Carrie over the gotten to know Tick Carrie over the gotten to know Tick Carrie over the years and he's one of my best friends years and he's one of my best friends years and he's one of my best friends now and um just love the the joy of that now and um just love the the joy of that now and um just love the the joy of that statement and uh that it's mutual and uh statement and uh that it's mutual and uh statement and uh that it's mutual and uh also that we both just get to do such also that we both just get to do such also that we both just get to do such inspiring work with like you talk about inspiring work with like you talk about inspiring work with like you talk about relationship. We're in relationship with relationship. We're in relationship with relationship. We're in relationship with people we respect profoundly. people we respect profoundly. people we respect profoundly. >> I sit in the back row taking notes. It >> I sit in the back row taking notes. It >> I sit in the back row taking notes. It is. It is. That was another thing since is. It is. That was another thing since is. It is. That was another thing since the hospital is like I have these the hospital is like I have these the hospital is like I have these moments regularly, but how did this moments regularly, but how did this moments regularly, but how did this become my life? Like this is this is become my life? Like this is this is become my life? Like this is this is pretty amazing, God. Like, wow. Like pretty amazing, God. Like, wow. Like pretty amazing, God. Like, wow. Like just in awe. And you don't want to lose just in awe. And you don't want to lose just in awe. And you don't want to lose that cuz you have bad days. You have that cuz you have bad days. You have that cuz you have bad days. You have days where you can make stupid decisions days where you can make stupid decisions days where you can make stupid decisions and regret it, but like it's it's not and regret it, but like it's it's not and regret it, but like it's it's not bad. And if you have the margin to bad. And if you have the margin to bad. And if you have the margin to really reflect on that, I think most of really reflect on that, I think most of really reflect on that, I think most of us will realize us will realize us will realize >> it's better than we think it is. >> it's better than we think it is. >> it's better than we think it is. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well, thank you. >> Well, thank you. >> Well, thank you. >> Such great stuff. Honored to have you. >> Such great stuff. Honored to have you. >> Such great stuff. Honored to have you. Thank you.