The One Minute Manager with Ken Blanchard and Randy Conley

What they do is they focus on what's What they do is they focus on what's wrong rather than what's right. And then wrong rather than what's right. And then wrong rather than what's right. And then they call them seagull managers. They they call them seagull managers. They they call them seagull managers. They fly in, make a lot of noise, crap on fly in, make a lot of noise, crap on fly in, make a lot of noise, crap on everybody, and then fly out. You know, everybody, and then fly out. You know, everybody, and then fly out. You know, and uh they wonder why, you know, people and uh they wonder why, you know, people and uh they wonder why, you know, people are leaving and and aren't really are leaving and and aren't really are leaving and and aren't really committed, you know, and so you know, committed, you know, and so you know, committed, you know, and so you know, it's it's how do you work with your it's it's how do you work with your it's it's how do you work with your people and not seagull in, you know, and people and not seagull in, you know, and people and not seagull in, you know, and uh so uh uh so uh uh so uh see cuz what happens when you seagull see cuz what happens when you seagull see cuz what happens when you seagull in, then you get a bunch of ducks, you in, then you get a bunch of ducks, you in, then you get a bunch of ducks, you know, we we love to talk about that. know, we we love to talk about that. know, we we love to talk about that. They go quack quack, it's hard job, and They go quack quack, it's hard job, and They go quack quack, it's hard job, and they quack, you know, you know, and and they quack, you know, you know, and and they quack, you know, you know, and and uh so you got seagulls running and ducks uh so you got seagulls running and ducks uh so you got seagulls running and ducks going, and the place is a noisy place, going, and the place is a noisy place, going, and the place is a noisy place, but it's not it's not producing what uh but it's not it's not producing what uh but it's not it's not producing what uh what you really uh really want. Welcome what you really uh really want. Welcome what you really uh really want. Welcome to the Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Podcast to the Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Podcast to the Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Podcast on YouTube. I'm so glad you joined us. on YouTube. I'm so glad you joined us. on YouTube. I'm so glad you joined us. Hey, if you're new here, subscribe. You Hey, if you're new here, subscribe. You Hey, if you're new here, subscribe. You know, most of the people watching this know, most of the people watching this know, most of the people watching this have not subscribed. If you do, you'll have not subscribed. If you do, you'll have not subscribed. If you do, you'll get incredible access, premium access to get incredible access, premium access to get incredible access, premium access to top leaders like Ken Blanchard. He's top leaders like Ken Blanchard. He's top leaders like Ken Blanchard. He's going to be my guest on the podcast going to be my guest on the podcast going to be my guest on the podcast along with Randy Conley. Do you know, along with Randy Conley. Do you know, along with Randy Conley. Do you know, he's one of the 25 best-selling authors he's one of the 25 best-selling authors he's one of the 25 best-selling authors in history, of all time, because he in history, of all time, because he in history, of all time, because he wrote a book called The One-Minute wrote a book called The One-Minute wrote a book called The One-Minute Manager, and a lot of you are familiar Manager, and a lot of you are familiar Manager, and a lot of you are familiar with that. It sold over 23 million with that. It sold over 23 million with that. It sold over 23 million copies. That book alone has been copies. That book alone has been copies. That book alone has been translated into 47 languages. It's used translated into 47 languages. It's used translated into 47 languages. It's used around the world, and he's 85. And so around the world, and he's 85. And so around the world, and he's 85. And so we're going to talk about being fit, we're going to talk about being fit, we're going to talk about being fit, staying healthy, The One-Minute Manager, staying healthy, The One-Minute Manager, staying healthy, The One-Minute Manager, seagull management, my favorite seagull management, my favorite seagull management, my favorite principles, and a whole lot more on this

principles, and a whole lot more on this principles, and a whole lot more on this podcast. Plus, Randy is going to talk podcast. Plus, Randy is going to talk podcast. Plus, Randy is going to talk about trust. Well, hey, today's episode about trust. Well, hey, today's episode about trust. Well, hey, today's episode is brought to you by our partners at is brought to you by our partners at is brought to you by our partners at Compassion and Glue. So, when I was a Compassion and Glue. So, when I was a Compassion and Glue. So, when I was a pastor, I knew that child sponsorship pastor, I knew that child sponsorship pastor, I knew that child sponsorship was an opportunity for my church to was an opportunity for my church to was an opportunity for my church to really make an impact worldwide. So, I really make an impact worldwide. So, I really make an impact worldwide. So, I went to Compassion, and they made it went to Compassion, and they made it went to Compassion, and they made it happen. If you want to host your own happen. If you want to host your own happen. If you want to host your own Compassion Sunday, go to Compassion Sunday, go to Compassion Sunday, go to compassion.com/carey, compassion.com/carey, compassion.com/carey, and you can get signed up today. And and you can get signed up today. And and you can get signed up today. And then, if you really want to cut through then, if you really want to cut through then, if you really want to cut through the noise, how do you actually connect the noise, how do you actually connect the noise, how do you actually connect with people? Well, are you texting? And with people? Well, are you texting? And with people? Well, are you texting? And if so, is your plan free? You want to if so, is your plan free? You want to if so, is your plan free? You want to take the pain out of communicating with take the pain out of communicating with take the pain out of communicating with your people? Glue is offering free your people? Glue is offering free your people? Glue is offering free texting to churches. Check it out at texting to churches. Check it out at texting to churches. Check it out at glue.us/freetexting glue.us/freetexting glue.us/freetexting today. And now, my conversation with Ken today. And now, my conversation with Ken today. And now, my conversation with Ken Blanchard and Randy Conley. Well, Ken Blanchard and Randy Conley. Well, Ken Blanchard and Randy Conley. Well, Ken and Randy, welcome to the podcast. and Randy, welcome to the podcast. and Randy, welcome to the podcast. It's good to be here with you, Carey. It's good to be here with you, Carey. It's good to be here with you, Carey. Thanks, Carey. Thanks, Carey. Thanks, Carey. Yeah, it's a thrill to have you. I would Yeah, it's a thrill to have you. I would Yeah, it's a thrill to have you. I would love to know how the two of you met and love to know how the two of you met and love to know how the two of you met and got working together, and then a little got working together, and then a little got working together, and then a little career retrospective for each of you.

career retrospective for each of you. career retrospective for each of you. Randy, why don't you want to tell about Randy, why don't you want to tell about Randy, why don't you want to tell about how you joined our company, cuz that's how you joined our company, cuz that's how you joined our company, cuz that's how we met. Yeah. Yeah, we met when I how we met. Yeah. Yeah, we met when I how we met. Yeah. Yeah, we met when I joined Ken's company in 1996. joined Ken's company in 1996. joined Ken's company in 1996. So, this is my 28th year with the So, this is my 28th year with the So, this is my 28th year with the organization. organization. organization. And And And I started in our project management I started in our project management I started in our project management ranks, managing the implementation of ranks, managing the implementation of ranks, managing the implementation of our training and consulting projects. our training and consulting projects. our training and consulting projects. And one of my very first client projects And one of my very first client projects And one of my very first client projects was accompanying Ken on a talk that he was accompanying Ken on a talk that he was accompanying Ken on a talk that he was doing at American Honda, up in was doing at American Honda, up in was doing at American Honda, up in Torrance, California. And And we're Torrance, California. And And we're Torrance, California. And And we're based in San Diego. based in San Diego. based in San Diego. And I got to ride in a limousine with And I got to ride in a limousine with And I got to ride in a limousine with Ken Blanchard. I had only been at the Ken Blanchard. I had only been at the Ken Blanchard. I had only been at the company like a few months, and it's like company like a few months, and it's like company like a few months, and it's like I flew under this lucky star, you know, I flew under this lucky star, you know, I flew under this lucky star, you know, and I get to ride with Ken and I get to ride with Ken and I get to ride with Ken up to Los Angeles and back. And And we up to Los Angeles and back. And And we up to Los Angeles and back. And And we just connected. You know, our our faith just connected. You know, our our faith just connected. You know, our our faith was a common denominator for us, and And was a common denominator for us, and And was a common denominator for us, and And just we just had a great connection. just we just had a great connection. just we just had a great connection. And over that time, I had moved into And over that time, I had moved into And over that time, I had moved into different leadership roles at Blanchard.

different leadership roles at Blanchard. different leadership roles at Blanchard. I was on our executive leadership team I was on our executive leadership team I was on our executive leadership team for a number of years, for a number of years, for a number of years, leading the delivery side of our leading the delivery side of our leading the delivery side of our business. business. business. And the last several years, I've been And the last several years, I've been And the last several years, I've been focusing on client work. focusing on client work. focusing on client work. My area of expertise is in building My area of expertise is in building My area of expertise is in building trust. trust. trust. And so, Ken and I had talked for quite a And so, Ken and I had talked for quite a And so, Ken and I had talked for quite a long time about doing a book together. long time about doing a book together. long time about doing a book together. And one of the few good things that came And one of the few good things that came And one of the few good things that came out of COVID was we actually had the out of COVID was we actually had the out of COVID was we actually had the time to do it. time to do it. time to do it. So. So. So. It worked out perfectly because uh It worked out perfectly because uh It worked out perfectly because uh the book is uh the book is uh the book is uh you know, 52 ways you know, 52 ways you know, 52 ways to become a servant leader and build to become a servant leader and build to become a servant leader and build trust. trust. trust. And so, uh 26 And so, uh 26 And so, uh 26 of them is about servant leadership and of them is about servant leadership and of them is about servant leadership and those are mine those are mine those are mine that I kind of share and then 26 on that I kind of share and then 26 on that I kind of share and then 26 on trust. And we put those together in trust. And we put those together in trust. And we put those together in first the initial book and now uh the first the initial book and now uh the first the initial book and now uh the playbook. So, it's uh it's really been playbook. So, it's uh it's really been playbook. So, it's uh it's really been fun in many ways. fun in many ways. fun in many ways. Uh it really covers all the concepts Uh it really covers all the concepts Uh it really covers all the concepts that our company has been teaching over that our company has been teaching over that our company has been teaching over the years around the world.

the years around the world. the years around the world. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. And 52 being 52 weeks in the year, And 52 being 52 weeks in the year, And 52 being 52 weeks in the year, right? That's right. Absolutely. right? That's right. Absolutely. right? That's right. Absolutely. Yeah. One for each week. Yeah. One for each week. Yeah. One for each week. Co-authorship is tough. I mean, a lot of Co-authorship is tough. I mean, a lot of Co-authorship is tough. I mean, a lot of people think about it. people think about it. people think about it. They have a hard time doing it. Ken, They have a hard time doing it. Ken, They have a hard time doing it. Ken, you've written 70 books, is it? Most of you've written 70 books, is it? Most of you've written 70 books, is it? Most of which were co-authored. which were co-authored. which were co-authored. What are some secrets to making a What are some secrets to making a What are some secrets to making a co-authorship co-authorship co-authorship work? work? work? Well, I think first you got to decide Well, I think first you got to decide Well, I think first you got to decide what's the big what's the big what's the big topic that you want to talk about. And a topic that you want to talk about. And a topic that you want to talk about. And a lot of my co-authors, I would go even to lot of my co-authors, I would go even to lot of my co-authors, I would go even to them like Norman Vincent Peale, who was them like Norman Vincent Peale, who was them like Norman Vincent Peale, who was positive thinking guy and positive thinking guy and positive thinking guy and Gary Ridge, who had become president of Gary Ridge, who had become president of Gary Ridge, who had become president of W E40 and and uh W E40 and and uh W E40 and and uh uh you know, different people like that. uh you know, different people like that. uh you know, different people like that. And uh And uh And uh we I don't sit down and write. I've we I don't sit down and write. I've we I don't sit down and write. I've never been that kind. I I always have a never been that kind. I I always have a never been that kind. I I always have a recording of some type and go and recording of some type and go and recording of some type and go and interview interview interview uh and have a discussion with the person uh and have a discussion with the person uh and have a discussion with the person then I have two great editors, Martha then I have two great editors, Martha then I have two great editors, Martha Lawrence and Renee Brodway and they'll Lawrence and Renee Brodway and they'll Lawrence and Renee Brodway and they'll one of them will type it up and then one of them will type it up and then one of them will type it up and then we'll look at it and see how we're going we'll look at it and see how we're going we'll look at it and see how we're going to organize it all and and uh I also to organize it all and and uh I also to organize it all and and uh I also like to write parables, you know, and like to write parables, you know, and like to write parables, you know, and that's what I did with Spencer Johnson, that's what I did with Spencer Johnson, that's what I did with Spencer Johnson, you know, uh Mhm. I met Spencer at a you know, uh Mhm. I met Spencer at a you know, uh Mhm. I met Spencer at a cocktail party at Adelaide Bry, who cocktail party at Adelaide Bry, who cocktail party at Adelaide Bry, who wrote Visualizations, Directing the wrote Visualizations, Directing the wrote Visualizations, Directing the Movies of Your Mind, at a party for Movies of Your Mind, at a party for Movies of Your Mind, at a party for authors in San Diego. And I had written authors in San Diego. And I had written authors in San Diego. And I had written a textbook with Paul Hersey, and so I a textbook with Paul Hersey, and so I a textbook with Paul Hersey, and so I qualified for this party.

qualified for this party. qualified for this party. And uh my wife, Margie, met Spencer And uh my wife, Margie, met Spencer And uh my wife, Margie, met Spencer first. first. first. And he was a children's book writer. He And he was a children's book writer. He And he was a children's book writer. He and his wife wrote all these kids books, and his wife wrote all these kids books, and his wife wrote all these kids books, the Value Tales series, the Value of the Value Tales series, the Value of the Value Tales series, the Value of Courage, starring Jackie Robinson, the Courage, starring Jackie Robinson, the Courage, starring Jackie Robinson, the Value of Determination, the story of Value of Determination, the story of Value of Determination, the story of Helen Keller, and Helen Keller, and Helen Keller, and and Margie hand-carried him over to me and Margie hand-carried him over to me and Margie hand-carried him over to me and said, "You two guys ought to write a and said, "You two guys ought to write a and said, "You two guys ought to write a children's book for managers. They won't children's book for managers. They won't children's book for managers. They won't read anything else." And so read anything else." And so read anything else." And so I invited Spencer to a seminar I was I invited Spencer to a seminar I was I invited Spencer to a seminar I was doing the next day, sat in the back and doing the next day, sat in the back and doing the next day, sat in the back and laughed and he came running up and he laughed and he came running up and he laughed and he came running up and he said, "Forget parables. Let's do the One said, "Forget parables. Let's do the One said, "Forget parables. Let's do the One Minute Manager." Minute Manager." Minute Manager." And uh And uh And uh and that uh we decided to do a parable and that uh we decided to do a parable and that uh we decided to do a parable cuz I'm a storyteller and he's a was a cuz I'm a storyteller and he's a was a cuz I'm a storyteller and he's a was a children's book writer. children's book writer. children's book writer. And uh so life is what happens to you And uh so life is what happens to you And uh so life is what happens to you when you're planning on doing something when you're planning on doing something when you're planning on doing something else, I think. Yeah, that's for sure. else, I think. Yeah, that's for sure. else, I think. Yeah, that's for sure. I didn't know that. What um okay, I got I didn't know that. What um okay, I got I didn't know that. What um okay, I got I got a bunch of questions about I got a bunch of questions about I got a bunch of questions about writing. writing. writing. What made you think that was a good idea What made you think that was a good idea What made you think that was a good idea to collaborate with a children's author?

to collaborate with a children's author? to collaborate with a children's author? Well, my wife really was the one that Well, my wife really was the one that Well, my wife really was the one that suggested it, you know, she Uh-huh. cuz suggested it, you know, she Uh-huh. cuz suggested it, you know, she Uh-huh. cuz people won't read anything else, they people won't read anything else, they people won't read anything else, they And uh too many of the management and And uh too many of the management and And uh too many of the management and leadership books are really long, leadership books are really long, leadership books are really long, extensive things, and extensive things, and extensive things, and and uh and uh and uh uh uh uh I always thought we would be much better I always thought we would be much better I always thought we would be much better off if people had simpler stuff. My uh off if people had simpler stuff. My uh off if people had simpler stuff. My uh mission statement is to be a loving mission statement is to be a loving mission statement is to be a loving teacher and example of simple truth teacher and example of simple truth teacher and example of simple truth that helps myself and others to awaken that helps myself and others to awaken that helps myself and others to awaken to the presence of God in their lives to the presence of God in their lives to the presence of God in their lives and realize that we're here to serve not and realize that we're here to serve not and realize that we're here to serve not to be served. And so, that's to be served. And so, that's to be served. And so, that's been kind of my mission statement. So, been kind of my mission statement. So, been kind of my mission statement. So, it's a it's a it's a it's kind of fitting in. The textbook it's kind of fitting in. The textbook it's kind of fitting in. The textbook really came out of uh meeting Paul really came out of uh meeting Paul really came out of uh meeting Paul Hersey when I was at Ohio University. Hersey when I was at Ohio University. Hersey when I was at Ohio University. I heard he taught a great leadership I heard he taught a great leadership I heard he taught a great leadership class. He came and taught uh the uh class. He came and taught uh the uh class. He came and taught uh the uh uh as chairman of the management uh as chairman of the management uh as chairman of the management department. department. department. And And And the dean asked me to teach a course in the dean asked me to teach a course in the dean asked me to teach a course in his department. It was really kind of his department. It was really kind of his department. It was really kind of interesting. It's a It was an adventure.

interesting. It's a It was an adventure. interesting. It's a It was an adventure. My faculty in graduate school all said, My faculty in graduate school all said, My faculty in graduate school all said, "If you want to be in a university, you "If you want to be in a university, you "If you want to be in a university, you should be an administrator because you should be an administrator because you should be an administrator because you can't write." can't write." can't write." I write a lot. Learned that maybe it was I write a lot. Learned that maybe it was I write a lot. Learned that maybe it was too simple and easy to understand for too simple and easy to understand for too simple and easy to understand for their their style. So, my first job was their their style. So, my first job was their their style. So, my first job was as assistant to the dean of the college as assistant to the dean of the college as assistant to the dean of the college of business at Ohio University. And of business at Ohio University. And of business at Ohio University. And Hersey came as chairman of the Hersey came as chairman of the Hersey came as chairman of the management department. And so, my management department. And so, my management department. And so, my dean, Harry Harry Evers, said, "Teach a dean, Harry Harry Evers, said, "Teach a dean, Harry Harry Evers, said, "Teach a course in there." And I hadn't thought course in there." And I hadn't thought course in there." And I hadn't thought of teaching uh before cuz if you don't of teaching uh before cuz if you don't of teaching uh before cuz if you don't write, you you perish as a faculty write, you you perish as a faculty write, you you perish as a faculty member, you know. Mhm. member, you know. Mhm. member, you know. Mhm. Uh Uh Uh he said, "I don't care anything about he said, "I don't care anything about he said, "I don't care anything about that. Teach a course." that. Teach a course." that. Teach a course." And so, I started teaching. After a And so, I started teaching. After a And so, I started teaching. After a couple of weeks, I told my wife, Margie, couple of weeks, I told my wife, Margie, couple of weeks, I told my wife, Margie, "This is really fun, you know. That's "This is really fun, you know. That's "This is really fun, you know. That's what I ought to be doing." what I ought to be doing." what I ought to be doing." She said, "Well, what about the She said, "Well, what about the She said, "Well, what about the writing?" I said, "I don't know. I'll writing?" I said, "I don't know. I'll writing?" I said, "I don't know. I'll figure something out." But I heard figure something out." But I heard figure something out." But I heard Hersey taught a great leadership course. Hersey taught a great leadership course. Hersey taught a great leadership course. And so, I asked him if I could sit in And so, I asked him if I could sit in And so, I asked him if I could sit in his course the next semester. He said, his course the next semester. He said, his course the next semester. He said, "Nobody audits my course. You want to "Nobody audits my course. You want to "Nobody audits my course. You want to take it for credit, you're welcome." And take it for credit, you're welcome." And take it for credit, you're welcome." And he walked away. And I thought that was he walked away. And I thought that was he walked away. And I thought that was interesting cuz I had a PhD and he interesting cuz I had a PhD and he interesting cuz I had a PhD and he didn't. He wants me to take his course didn't. He wants me to take his course didn't. He wants me to take his course for credit. So, I talked to Margie. She for credit. So, I talked to Margie. She for credit. So, I talked to Margie. She said, "Is he any good?" I said, "He's said, "Is he any good?" I said, "He's said, "Is he any good?" I said, "He's supposed to be great." She said, "Well, supposed to be great." She said, "Well, supposed to be great." She said, "Well, get your ego out of the way and take his get your ego out of the way and take his get your ego out of the way and take his damn course." And so, I had to damn course." And so, I had to damn course." And so, I had to get the registrar into letting me in to get the registrar into letting me in to get the registrar into letting me in to take his course. And I did. And I all take his course. And I did. And I all take his course. And I did. And I all the papers.

the papers. the papers. And in June, uh think '68, Percy came And in June, uh think '68, Percy came And in June, uh think '68, Percy came into my office and he said, "Ken, I've into my office and he said, "Ken, I've into my office and he said, "Ken, I've been teaching leadership for years. I been teaching leadership for years. I been teaching leadership for years. I think I'm better than anybody. They want think I'm better than anybody. They want think I'm better than anybody. They want me to write a textbook, but writing me to write a textbook, but writing me to write a textbook, but writing isn't my great skill area. But I've been isn't my great skill area. But I've been isn't my great skill area. But I've been looking for a good writer like you." looking for a good writer like you." looking for a good writer like you." He'd read my papers in his class cuz I He'd read my papers in his class cuz I He'd read my papers in his class cuz I had to take it for credit. had to take it for credit. had to take it for credit. He said, "Would you co-author for me?" He said, "Would you co-author for me?" He said, "Would you co-author for me?" And I said, "Well, we ought to be a And I said, "Well, we ought to be a And I said, "Well, we ought to be a great team. You can't write and then I great team. You can't write and then I great team. You can't write and then I suppose to let's do it." But then when I met Spencer, I thought, But then when I met Spencer, I thought, "God, isn't it going to be fun to write "God, isn't it going to be fun to write "God, isn't it going to be fun to write short ribs books rather than this short ribs books rather than this short ribs books rather than this textbook stuff?" textbook stuff?" textbook stuff?" Well, Ken Ken is easier to work with, Well, Ken Ken is easier to work with, Well, Ken Ken is easier to work with, you know, as a co-author. Uh I lovingly you know, as a co-author. Uh I lovingly you know, as a co-author. Uh I lovingly tease him, you know, I call him Captain tease him, you know, I call him Captain tease him, you know, I call him Captain Optimism because he's just super Optimism because he's just super Optimism because he's just super optimistic, super optimistic, super optimistic, super uh you know, open to your ideas. He uh you know, open to your ideas. He uh you know, open to your ideas. He really doesn't have a ton of ego, you really doesn't have a ton of ego, you really doesn't have a ton of ego, you know, so he's very know, so he's very know, so he's very he's a learner at heart and so it's it's he's a learner at heart and so it's it's he's a learner at heart and so it's it's it's very easy to work with Ken.

it's very easy to work with Ken. it's very easy to work with Ken. Ken, is that a learned optimism or Ken, is that a learned optimism or Ken, is that a learned optimism or natural optimism? natural optimism? natural optimism? I think I got it from my father. My I think I got it from my father. My I think I got it from my father. My father was an interesting father was an interesting father was an interesting uh guy. Uh uh guy. Uh uh guy. Uh he uh he uh he uh went to West Point. His father was a went to West Point. His father was a went to West Point. His father was a uh uh uh doctor in Island Falls and he got into doctor in Island Falls and he got into doctor in Island Falls and he got into West Point. When he got out of high West Point. When he got out of high West Point. When he got out of high school, that's where he wanted to go. So school, that's where he wanted to go. So school, that's where he wanted to go. So I said, "No, son, you should go away to I said, "No, son, you should go away to I said, "No, son, you should go away to school." He said, "Well, if I can't go school." He said, "Well, if I can't go school." He said, "Well, if I can't go to West Point, I'll go to Annapolis." to West Point, I'll go to Annapolis." to West Point, I'll go to Annapolis." He graduated from Naval Academy in '24, He graduated from Naval Academy in '24, He graduated from Naval Academy in '24, but they didn't need naval officers in but they didn't need naval officers in but they didn't need naval officers in '24 cuz World War I had just ended in '24 cuz World War I had just ended in '24 cuz World War I had just ended in '22 and so '22 and so '22 and so they released him after his senior they released him after his senior they released him after his senior cruise and he went to Harvard Business cruise and he went to Harvard Business cruise and he went to Harvard Business School and majored in finance. School and majored in finance. School and majored in finance. And in 1940, he came home and said to my And in 1940, he came home and said to my And in 1940, he came home and said to my mother, "Well, I quit today." She said, mother, "Well, I quit today." She said, mother, "Well, I quit today." She said, "You did what?" He said, "Yeah, I quit." "You did what?" He said, "Yeah, I quit." "You did what?" He said, "Yeah, I quit." She said, "Why?" He said they said, She said, "Why?" He said they said, She said, "Why?" He said they said, "Hitler's crazy and the Japanese are "Hitler's crazy and the Japanese are "Hitler's crazy and the Japanese are going to be in this Eastern going to be in this Eastern going to be in this Eastern I need to help out. So he takes from a I need to help out. So he takes from a I need to help out. So he takes from a vice president to a second Louie and vice president to a second Louie and vice president to a second Louie and they put him in Brooklyn Navy Yard.

they put him in Brooklyn Navy Yard. they put him in Brooklyn Navy Yard. And Pearl Harbor happens looks like he's And Pearl Harbor happens looks like he's And Pearl Harbor happens looks like he's going to stay there. going to stay there. going to stay there. You know, cuz he's uh You know, cuz he's uh You know, cuz he's uh you know, 40 years old with no you know, 40 years old with no you know, 40 years old with no experience and that wasn't my dad's experience and that wasn't my dad's experience and that wasn't my dad's style. So one of his classmates who style. So one of his classmates who style. So one of his classmates who stayed in was, you know, Washington in stayed in was, you know, Washington in stayed in was, you know, Washington in the Navy and he said, "Call him." He the Navy and he said, "Call him." He the Navy and he said, "Call him." He said, "John, what do you got for an old said, "John, what do you got for an old said, "John, what do you got for an old fart in the action? I got to get in the fart in the action? I got to get in the fart in the action? I got to get in the action." He said, "Tell him to let me action." He said, "Tell him to let me action." He said, "Tell him to let me work into it." And he called him back a work into it." And he called him back a work into it." And he called him back a few days saying, "Unfortunately, Ken, few days saying, "Unfortunately, Ken, few days saying, "Unfortunately, Ken, the only thing I have for a guy like you the only thing I have for a guy like you the only thing I have for a guy like you uh is a suicide group going into the uh is a suicide group going into the uh is a suicide group going into the Marshall Islands." Instantly, upped him Marshall Islands." Instantly, upped him Marshall Islands." Instantly, upped him a rank or two and gave him a bunch of a rank or two and gave him a bunch of a rank or two and gave him a bunch of LCI, the landing craft infantry, and his LCI, the landing craft infantry, and his LCI, the landing craft infantry, and his job was to protect the Marines and the job was to protect the Marines and the job was to protect the Marines and the frogmen coming into Saipan, Kwajalein, frogmen coming into Saipan, Kwajalein, frogmen coming into Saipan, Kwajalein, and we talking getting in the Marshall and we talking getting in the Marshall and we talking getting in the Marshall Islands and Islands and Islands and and so my dad was always wanted to help and so my dad was always wanted to help and so my dad was always wanted to help and was a and was a and was a positive about things and positive about things and positive about things and so when I was in seventh grade I won the so when I was in seventh grade I won the so when I was in seventh grade I won the president of the seventh grade. president of the seventh grade. president of the seventh grade. It was a predominantly Jewish school and It was a predominantly Jewish school and It was a predominantly Jewish school and I was chosen the boy of the of the month I was chosen the boy of the of the month I was chosen the boy of the of the month and all that.

and all that. and all that. And uh so I came home and said, "Dad, And uh so I came home and said, "Dad, And uh so I came home and said, "Dad, I'm the president of the class." He I'm the president of the class." He I'm the president of the class." He said, "Now that you're president, your said, "Now that you're president, your said, "Now that you're president, your leadership training is going to begin. leadership training is going to begin. leadership training is going to begin. Uh as a leader, it's not about you, it's Uh as a leader, it's not about you, it's Uh as a leader, it's not about you, it's about we. about we. about we. It's about people." He said, "People It's about people." He said, "People It's about people." He said, "People think in the military it's my way or the think in the military it's my way or the think in the military it's my way or the highway." He said, "That's a myth. True highway." He said, "That's a myth. True highway." He said, "That's a myth. True or bad, and somebody's got to call the or bad, and somebody's got to call the or bad, and somebody's got to call the shots. shots. shots. But if you act like you're a big deal in But if you act like you're a big deal in But if you act like you're a big deal in peacetime, your men will shoot you peacetime, your men will shoot you peacetime, your men will shoot you before the enemy." before the enemy." before the enemy." And he started really teaching me about And he started really teaching me about And he started really teaching me about leadership. leadership. leadership. Wow. Did your dad make it through the Wow. Did your dad make it through the Wow. Did your dad make it through the war? war? war? Yes, he did. And then he Yes, he did. And then he Yes, he did. And then he ended up retiring as a rear admiral. ended up retiring as a rear admiral. ended up retiring as a rear admiral. Uh pretty amazing guy. Mhm. Uh pretty amazing guy. Mhm. Uh pretty amazing guy. Mhm. Randy, what was the Randy, what was the Randy, what was the uh uh uh easiest and the hardest part of writing easiest and the hardest part of writing easiest and the hardest part of writing these books with Ken. Well, I I Well, I I I would say the easiest was I would say the easiest was I would say the easiest was um um um Ken and I were both operating from areas Ken and I were both operating from areas Ken and I were both operating from areas of strength, you know, things that we're of strength, you know, things that we're of strength, you know, things that we're both passionate about and uh, like to both passionate about and uh, like to both passionate about and uh, like to share with other people. So, that was share with other people. So, that was share with other people. So, that was really easy.

really easy. really easy. Uh, the hardest part was getting Uh, the hardest part was getting Uh, the hardest part was getting although I said Ken is easy to work although I said Ken is easy to work although I said Ken is easy to work with, the hardest part was getting used with, the hardest part was getting used with, the hardest part was getting used to the way that Ken writes. to the way that Ken writes. to the way that Ken writes. Ken, you know, more speaks a book than Ken, you know, more speaks a book than Ken, you know, more speaks a book than he writes a book, you know, and so as he he writes a book, you know, and so as he he writes a book, you know, and so as he mentioned uh, you know, he'll record mentioned uh, you know, he'll record mentioned uh, you know, he'll record stuff into a tape recorder uh, stuff into a tape recorder uh, stuff into a tape recorder uh, and one of his uh, and one of his uh, and one of his uh, assistants, Renee or Martha, will, you assistants, Renee or Martha, will, you assistants, Renee or Martha, will, you know, type out the script. And I'm just know, type out the script. And I'm just know, type out the script. And I'm just the opposite. I've got to sort of think the opposite. I've got to sort of think the opposite. I've got to sort of think about it, you know, ruminate on the about it, you know, ruminate on the about it, you know, ruminate on the topic and and you get my thoughts down topic and and you get my thoughts down topic and and you get my thoughts down on paper. on paper. on paper. And so, we would have working sessions And so, we would have working sessions And so, we would have working sessions where we would talk about where we would talk about where we would talk about you know, the different topics that you know, the different topics that you know, the different topics that we're writing about and Ken would be we're writing about and Ken would be we're writing about and Ken would be verbally processing and and I could only verbally processing and and I could only verbally processing and and I could only do that so much and I'd say, "Okay, I do that so much and I'd say, "Okay, I do that so much and I'd say, "Okay, I need to, you know, have some time to need to, you know, have some time to need to, you know, have some time to just sort of get my thoughts down on just sort of get my thoughts down on just sort of get my thoughts down on paper." paper." paper." Uh, but it actually ended up being a Uh, but it actually ended up being a Uh, but it actually ended up being a great great great uh, symbiotic process, you know. Um, uh, symbiotic process, you know. Um, uh, symbiotic process, you know. Um, and it turned out wonderful. So, uh, and it turned out wonderful. So, uh, and it turned out wonderful. So, uh, it's just been one of the highlights of it's just been one of the highlights of it's just been one of the highlights of my career is to to work with Ken on my career is to to work with Ken on my career is to to work with Ken on these two books that we've done.

these two books that we've done. these two books that we've done. No kidding. Randy's been about the best No kidding. Randy's been about the best No kidding. Randy's been about the best co-author I've had in a long time. So, co-author I've had in a long time. So, co-author I've had in a long time. So, we have a lot of fun and we have a lot of fun and we have a lot of fun and and uh, we divided this thing up and uh, we divided this thing up and uh, we divided this thing up beautifully with 26 on servant beautifully with 26 on servant beautifully with 26 on servant leadership, which is leadership, which is leadership, which is my area of biggest interest, and 26 on my area of biggest interest, and 26 on my area of biggest interest, and 26 on trust. trust. trust. So, it was fun. So, it was fun. So, it was fun. You had the dual expertise. You had the dual expertise. You had the dual expertise. Ken, you know, I remember when The One Ken, you know, I remember when The One Ken, you know, I remember when The One Minute Manager came out and it Minute Manager came out and it Minute Manager came out and it revolutionized. I mean, everybody talked revolutionized. I mean, everybody talked revolutionized. I mean, everybody talked about it for years and years and years about it for years and years and years about it for years and years and years and years. and years. and years. Describe what you were doing before The Describe what you were doing before The Describe what you were doing before The One Minute Manager One Minute Manager One Minute Manager and then what made that book hit? and then what made that book hit? and then what made that book hit? Well, it's really interesting is that uh Well, it's really interesting is that uh Well, it's really interesting is that uh uh uh uh I met Spencer Johnson I met Spencer Johnson I met Spencer Johnson uh at this cocktail party. My wife uh at this cocktail party. My wife uh at this cocktail party. My wife introduced him to me and as I said, he introduced him to me and as I said, he introduced him to me and as I said, he was a children's book writer and was a children's book writer and was a children's book writer and and uh wrote these books with his wife and uh wrote these books with his wife and uh wrote these books with his wife on on on Value Tales for Kids and Value Tales for Kids and Value Tales for Kids and and uh we started to talk and uh and uh we started to talk and uh and uh we started to talk and uh uh he was working on a one minute uh he was working on a one minute uh he was working on a one minute scolding with a psychiatrist on how to scolding with a psychiatrist on how to scolding with a psychiatrist on how to discipline kids.

discipline kids. discipline kids. And so, I invited him to a seminar I was And so, I invited him to a seminar I was And so, I invited him to a seminar I was doing the next day and he laughed and doing the next day and he laughed and doing the next day and he laughed and came running up at the end. He said, came running up at the end. He said, came running up at the end. He said, "Forget parenting. Let's do The One "Forget parenting. Let's do The One "Forget parenting. Let's do The One Minute Manager." Minute Manager." Minute Manager." And um since he was a children's book And um since he was a children's book And um since he was a children's book writer and I was a storyteller, we we writer and I was a storyteller, we we writer and I was a storyteller, we we thought we'd write a parable. thought we'd write a parable. thought we'd write a parable. And we had, you know, three secrets. I And we had, you know, three secrets. I And we had, you know, three secrets. I had focused on goal setting and praising had focused on goal setting and praising had focused on goal setting and praising and catching people doing things right and catching people doing things right and catching people doing things right and he had the scolding down, which we and he had the scolding down, which we and he had the scolding down, which we changed to the one minute reprimand. changed to the one minute reprimand. changed to the one minute reprimand. Uh and uh Uh and uh Uh and uh we just ended up uh we just ended up uh we just ended up uh writing a writing a writing a a parable and and that was interesting. a parable and and that was interesting. a parable and and that was interesting. Uh we were invited on The Today Show Uh we were invited on The Today Show Uh we were invited on The Today Show on Labor Day 1982 on Labor Day 1982 on Labor Day 1982 and and and cuz it was unusual to have a parable for cuz it was unusual to have a parable for cuz it was unusual to have a parable for leaders and this kind of book and people leaders and this kind of book and people leaders and this kind of book and people were interested in it. were interested in it. were interested in it. And uh the next week and And uh the next week and And uh the next week and it went on the the New York Times it went on the the New York Times it went on the the New York Times bestseller list and stayed on for two or bestseller list and stayed on for two or bestseller list and stayed on for two or three years and so, it three years and so, it three years and so, it it still sells today. In fact, we we we it still sells today. In fact, we we we it still sells today. In fact, we we we did it. We have the new One Minute did it. We have the new One Minute did it. We have the new One Minute Manager. The big changes we changed One Manager. The big changes we changed One Manager. The big changes we changed One Minute Reprimand to One Minute Minute Reprimand to One Minute Minute Reprimand to One Minute Redirects. But it's it's more of a Redirects. But it's it's more of a Redirects. But it's it's more of a collaborative collaborative collaborative uh style, but uh so I end up uh style, but uh so I end up uh style, but uh so I end up being a storyteller and a and and a being a storyteller and a and and a being a storyteller and a and and a parable writer, which I really have parable writer, which I really have parable writer, which I really have enjoyed uh enjoyed uh enjoyed uh uh tremendously cuz I don't like like to uh tremendously cuz I don't like like to uh tremendously cuz I don't like like to write really big long books.

write really big long books. write really big long books. And uh And uh And uh so uh Randy's in my book is fairly long, so uh Randy's in my book is fairly long, so uh Randy's in my book is fairly long, but it's made up of, you know, 52 little but it's made up of, you know, 52 little but it's made up of, you know, 52 little books. Yeah, there you go. books. Yeah, there you go. books. Yeah, there you go. And I think, you know, Carrie, you asked And I think, you know, Carrie, you asked And I think, you know, Carrie, you asked what really made the One Minute Manager what really made the One Minute Manager what really made the One Minute Manager hit, you know? I think it was a hit, you know? I think it was a hit, you know? I think it was a combination of those things. One, it was combination of those things. One, it was combination of those things. One, it was probably, if not the first, one of the probably, if not the first, one of the probably, if not the first, one of the first parable type leadership books, first parable type leadership books, first parable type leadership books, right? For a for the business world. right? For a for the business world. right? For a for the business world. Number two, it was short, Number two, it was short, Number two, it was short, but yet the price was like it was a but yet the price was like it was a but yet the price was like it was a dichotomy of a short and sweet, but the dichotomy of a short and sweet, but the dichotomy of a short and sweet, but the price was like the price of a regular price was like the price of a regular price was like the price of a regular book. book. book. And it was positioned as like this gem, And it was positioned as like this gem, And it was positioned as like this gem, you know? you know? you know? And And And you know, and it just took off, as Ken you know, and it just took off, as Ken you know, and it just took off, as Ken said. You know, the Today Show helped um said. You know, the Today Show helped um said. You know, the Today Show helped um propel that. I mean, Ken and Spencer propel that. I mean, Ken and Spencer propel that. I mean, Ken and Spencer actually self-published it before it got actually self-published it before it got actually self-published it before it got picked up by a big publisher in New picked up by a big publisher in New picked up by a big publisher in New York. I didn't know that. Really? You York. I didn't know that. Really? You York. I didn't know that. Really? You self-published it? Well, initially when self-published it? Well, initially when self-published it? Well, initially when we met, we met in the we met, we met in the we met, we met in the first part of November. And we had a first part of November. And we had a first part of November. And we had a draft of the book by draft of the book by draft of the book by uh uh uh time we were heading up in two time we were heading up in two time we were heading up in two Winnebagos to the Rose Bowl. And we had Winnebagos to the Rose Bowl. And we had Winnebagos to the Rose Bowl. And we had a copy to give to everybody to read on a copy to give to everybody to read on a copy to give to everybody to read on the way up and and back. And people just the way up and and back. And people just the way up and and back. And people just loved it.

loved it. loved it. And I said to Spencer, "Well, let's go And I said to Spencer, "Well, let's go And I said to Spencer, "Well, let's go to New York and get a contract." He to New York and get a contract." He to New York and get a contract." He said, "No." He said, "They'll beat us up said, "No." He said, "They'll beat us up said, "No." He said, "They'll beat us up and take all the money cuz they don't and take all the money cuz they don't and take all the money cuz they don't know who we are. Let's build a know who we are. Let's build a know who we are. Let's build a a record, so let's self-publish it. a record, so let's self-publish it. a record, so let's self-publish it. And so we ended up self-publishing the And so we ended up self-publishing the And so we ended up self-publishing the book, and we sold 20,000 copies with no book, and we sold 20,000 copies with no book, and we sold 20,000 copies with no advertising, basically through a group advertising, basically through a group advertising, basically through a group called the Young Presidents' called the Young Presidents' called the Young Presidents' Organization. Oh yeah, YPO. You have to Organization. Oh yeah, YPO. You have to Organization. Oh yeah, YPO. You have to become president of the company before become president of the company before become president of the company before you're 40 years old and have at least 50 you're 40 years old and have at least 50 you're 40 years old and have at least 50 people and 5 million in sales, and I did people and 5 million in sales, and I did people and 5 million in sales, and I did some sessions for them, and they really some sessions for them, and they really some sessions for them, and they really loved what I did. And they said, "What loved what I did. And they said, "What loved what I did. And they said, "What are you What are you going to do at the are you What are you going to do at the are you What are you going to do at the end of the year?" Cuz I was on a 1-year end of the year?" Cuz I was on a 1-year end of the year?" Cuz I was on a 1-year sabbatical leave uh to do the third sabbatical leave uh to do the third sabbatical leave uh to do the third edition of Hershey's and my uh edition of Hershey's and my uh edition of Hershey's and my uh uh textbook. And he said, "We're going uh textbook. And he said, "We're going uh textbook. And he said, "We're going back to the university." I said, "No, back to the university." I said, "No, back to the university." I said, "No, you're not." They said, "What do you you're not." They said, "What do you you're not." They said, "What do you mean?" He said, "Yeah, you're going to mean?" He said, "Yeah, you're going to mean?" He said, "Yeah, you're going to start your own company." I said, "How start your own company." I said, "How start your own company." I said, "How are we going to do that? My wife and I are we going to do that? My wife and I are we going to do that? My wife and I don't even know how to spell the word don't even know how to spell the word don't even know how to spell the word entrepreneur. How are we How are we entrepreneur. How are we How are we entrepreneur. How are we How are we going to be one?" And they said, "We'll going to be one?" And they said, "We'll going to be one?" And they said, "We'll help you." And five of these presidents help you." And five of these presidents help you." And five of these presidents volunteered to be our advisory board, volunteered to be our advisory board, volunteered to be our advisory board, you know, one from San Diego, one from you know, one from San Diego, one from you know, one from San Diego, one from Illinois, one from Pennsylvania, one Illinois, one from Pennsylvania, one Illinois, one from Pennsylvania, one from Mexico City, and just a and helped from Mexico City, and just a and helped from Mexico City, and just a and helped us build a company us build a company us build a company from scratch, you know, basically from scratch, you know, basically from scratch, you know, basically through YPOers.

through YPOers. through YPOers. And so when The One Minute Manager was And so when The One Minute Manager was And so when The One Minute Manager was available, it was all these YPOers that available, it was all these YPOers that available, it was all these YPOers that bought all the copies and bought all the copies and bought all the copies and and also then when we went to New York, and also then when we went to New York, and also then when we went to New York, we had something. We had a had tried a we had something. We had a had tried a we had something. We had a had tried a track record. track record. track record. Uh could get a good contract. Uh could get a good contract. Uh could get a good contract. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. And That's a fascinating story. Now you And That's a fascinating story. Now you And That's a fascinating story. Now you have people like Patrick Lencioni or Jon have people like Patrick Lencioni or Jon have people like Patrick Lencioni or Jon Gordon, you know, that Gordon, you know, that Gordon, you know, that it's it's a common thing, right? To it's it's a common thing, right? To it's it's a common thing, right? To write leadership parables now. Those are write leadership parables now. Those are write leadership parables now. Those are two two two wonderful guys that I've kind of wonderful guys that I've kind of wonderful guys that I've kind of mentored They've been friends and mentored They've been friends and mentored They've been friends and colleagues. I met Lencioni when he was colleagues. I met Lencioni when he was colleagues. I met Lencioni when he was 24 years old. I was at a session he was 24 years old. I was at a session he was 24 years old. I was at a session he was doing. doing. doing. And I came up to him after the session And I came up to him after the session And I came up to him after the session and said, "Pat, what a fabulous stuff and said, "Pat, what a fabulous stuff and said, "Pat, what a fabulous stuff that is." I said, "You know where all that is." I said, "You know where all that is." I said, "You know where all that's from?" He said, "Where's that?" I that's from?" He said, "Where's that?" I that's from?" He said, "Where's that?" I said, "It's in the Bible." He said, said, "It's in the Bible." He said, said, "It's in the Bible." He said, "Really?" "Really?" "Really?" And so, he's a good Catholic and he now And so, he's a good Catholic and he now And so, he's a good Catholic and he now has realized that has realized that has realized that it's because I realized that that uh it's because I realized that that uh it's because I realized that that uh uh when The Women and the Manager came uh when The Women and the Manager came uh when The Women and the Manager came out, a old friend of mine, Phil Hodges, out, a old friend of mine, Phil Hodges, out, a old friend of mine, Phil Hodges, who I met who I met who I met and I was going to orientation camp to and I was going to orientation camp to and I was going to orientation camp to uh at Cornell. Uh uh at Cornell. Uh uh at Cornell. Uh Phil said, "Let's take a walk on the Phil said, "Let's take a walk on the Phil said, "Let's take a walk on the beach." He was a very spiritual guy. He beach." He was a very spiritual guy. He beach." He was a very spiritual guy. He said, "Ken, why do you think this One said, "Ken, why do you think this One said, "Ken, why do you think this One Minute Manager is so successful?" I Minute Manager is so successful?" I Minute Manager is so successful?" I said, "You know, said, "You know, said, "You know, somehow God must be involved." He said, somehow God must be involved." He said, somehow God must be involved." He said, "Oh, thank God."

And after I mentioned God, then I get a And after I mentioned God, then I get a call, you know, would I be willing to call, you know, would I be willing to call, you know, would I be willing to meet with Norman Vincent Peale and would meet with Norman Vincent Peale and would meet with Norman Vincent Peale and would I be willing to meet the Bob Buford who I be willing to meet the Bob Buford who I be willing to meet the Bob Buford who started Halftime. started Halftime. started Halftime. And And And and so, I think what it just turned out and so, I think what it just turned out and so, I think what it just turned out that that that suddenly we were off and in in running suddenly we were off and in in running suddenly we were off and in in running uh with with that all with kind of a uh with with that all with kind of a uh with with that all with kind of a spiritual base and spiritual base and spiritual base and since then starting ministry called Lead since then starting ministry called Lead since then starting ministry called Lead Like Jesus. It's all over the world. Like Jesus. It's all over the world. Like Jesus. It's all over the world. Uh Uh Uh it's not connected to our company cuz we it's not connected to our company cuz we it's not connected to our company cuz we wanted to keep it separate. wanted to keep it separate. wanted to keep it separate. But it's But it's But it's it's amazing. Everybody around the world it's amazing. Everybody around the world it's amazing. Everybody around the world loves Jesus. They just don't like loves Jesus. They just don't like loves Jesus. They just don't like Christians. Yeah. And so, I was on a Christians. Yeah. And so, I was on a Christians. Yeah. And so, I was on a radio show recently. They said, "Well, I radio show recently. They said, "Well, I radio show recently. They said, "Well, I understand you're very spiritual. What's understand you're very spiritual. What's understand you're very spiritual. What's your faith?" And I said, "Well, I'm a your faith?" And I said, "Well, I'm a your faith?" And I said, "Well, I'm a follower of Jesus." I said, "Oh, you're follower of Jesus." I said, "Oh, you're follower of Jesus." I said, "Oh, you're a Christian?" I said, "No, I'm not and a Christian?" I said, "No, I'm not and a Christian?" I said, "No, I'm not and neither was Jesus." A lot of people neither was Jesus." A lot of people neither was Jesus." A lot of people don't know Christianity is never don't know Christianity is never don't know Christianity is never mentioned in the four Gospels. And it's mentioned in the four Gospels. And it's mentioned in the four Gospels. And it's mentioned a few times in Acts and it's mentioned a few times in Acts and it's mentioned a few times in Acts and it's negative, those damn Christians. Mhm. I negative, those damn Christians. Mhm. I negative, those damn Christians. Mhm. I don't think Jesus came to start a don't think Jesus came to start a don't think Jesus came to start a religion. He came to build relationships religion. He came to build relationships religion. He came to build relationships around love.

around love. around love. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. I got a lot of places I could go. You I got a lot of places I could go. You I got a lot of places I could go. You know, when it comes to the parable and know, when it comes to the parable and know, when it comes to the parable and yours is is more like a almost I want to yours is is more like a almost I want to yours is is more like a almost I want to say a leadership devotional. 52 say a leadership devotional. 52 say a leadership devotional. 52 different short, very easily digestible different short, very easily digestible different short, very easily digestible chapters. So, I've gotten to know Pat chapters. So, I've gotten to know Pat chapters. So, I've gotten to know Pat Lencioni over the years, and you know, I Lencioni over the years, and you know, I Lencioni over the years, and you know, I said to him in one of our meetings like, said to him in one of our meetings like, said to him in one of our meetings like, you know, I enjoy the parables, but I you know, I enjoy the parables, but I you know, I enjoy the parables, but I always go to the back of the book where always go to the back of the book where always go to the back of the book where he outlined the strategy cuz that's how he outlined the strategy cuz that's how he outlined the strategy cuz that's how I think. And he goes, "You're one in a I think. And he goes, "You're one in a I think. And he goes, "You're one in a hundred." He says, "Everybody reads the hundred." He says, "Everybody reads the hundred." He says, "Everybody reads the parable, nobody reads the back of the parable, nobody reads the back of the parable, nobody reads the back of the book." But, uh I say that to say this. book." But, uh I say that to say this. book." But, uh I say that to say this. Do you think, and this is sort of a a Do you think, and this is sort of a a Do you think, and this is sort of a a softball, but take it where you want. Do softball, but take it where you want. Do softball, but take it where you want. Do you think a lot of us over complicate you think a lot of us over complicate you think a lot of us over complicate leadership? That we make it too long. leadership? That we make it too long. leadership? That we make it too long. I'm always telling I'm always telling I'm always telling preachers, go shorter, not longer. Go preachers, go shorter, not longer. Go preachers, go shorter, not longer. Go simpler, not more complicated. Like, simpler, not more complicated. Like, simpler, not more complicated. Like, what's your thoughts about the role of what's your thoughts about the role of what's your thoughts about the role of simplicity and brevity? Yes, absolutely.

simplicity and brevity? Yes, absolutely. simplicity and brevity? Yes, absolutely. You know, um You know, um You know, um I like to say leadership is a complex I like to say leadership is a complex I like to say leadership is a complex field, but it doesn't have to be field, but it doesn't have to be field, but it doesn't have to be complicated. complicated. complicated. Right? There are many parts and pieces Right? There are many parts and pieces Right? There are many parts and pieces in the world of leadership, but you're in the world of leadership, but you're in the world of leadership, but you're right, Kerry. I think we we get in our right, Kerry. I think we we get in our right, Kerry. I think we we get in our way so much. You know, we try to over way so much. You know, we try to over way so much. You know, we try to over complicate it. complicate it. complicate it. And that's what we wanted to do with The And that's what we wanted to do with The And that's what we wanted to do with The Simple Truths was remind people Simple Truths was remind people Simple Truths was remind people common sense principles, right? And common sense principles, right? And common sense principles, right? And that's the subtitle on our book, that's the subtitle on our book, that's the subtitle on our book, making common sense common practice. making common sense common practice. making common sense common practice. These are common sense things, right? These are common sense things, right? These are common sense things, right? That you probably learned throughout That you probably learned throughout That you probably learned throughout your life in some form or fashion. your life in some form or fashion. your life in some form or fashion. And if we can just keep those at the And if we can just keep those at the And if we can just keep those at the forefront of our minds, forefront of our minds, forefront of our minds, treat people, you know, the way they treat people, you know, the way they treat people, you know, the way they want to be treated, the way that we want want to be treated, the way that we want want to be treated, the way that we want to be treated, you know, remember these to be treated, you know, remember these to be treated, you know, remember these simple things, that gets us a simple things, that gets us a simple things, that gets us a you know, that gets a a big bang for our you know, that gets a a big bang for our you know, that gets a a big bang for our buck. So, completely agree with you, and buck. So, completely agree with you, and buck. So, completely agree with you, and Ken is the master of simple truths, you Ken is the master of simple truths, you Ken is the master of simple truths, you know, starting with The One Minute know, starting with The One Minute know, starting with The One Minute Manager Manager Manager and throughout all of his writings, it and throughout all of his writings, it and throughout all of his writings, it really is about really is about really is about let's keep things simple. Wouldn't you let's keep things simple. Wouldn't you let's keep things simple. Wouldn't you say, Ken?

say, Ken? say, Ken? Yeah, well, that's what I always felt. I Yeah, well, that's what I always felt. I Yeah, well, that's what I always felt. I said said said I I just don't have a very complicated I I just don't have a very complicated I I just don't have a very complicated mind, you know? mind, you know? mind, you know? And when I looked at a lot of these And when I looked at a lot of these And when I looked at a lot of these leadership theory books and everything, leadership theory books and everything, leadership theory books and everything, my God, they just were so complicated my God, they just were so complicated my God, they just were so complicated and so research-based and all that kind and so research-based and all that kind and so research-based and all that kind of thing and and uh of thing and and uh of thing and and uh So, that was really fun when I initially So, that was really fun when I initially So, that was really fun when I initially got together with Paul Hersey to got together with Paul Hersey to got together with Paul Hersey to to to start, you know, uh developing to to start, you know, uh developing to to start, you know, uh developing Situational Leadership. Uh Situational Leadership. Uh Situational Leadership. Uh you know, and we did that before the you know, and we did that before the you know, and we did that before the One-Minute Manager came out, you know? One-Minute Manager came out, you know? One-Minute Manager came out, you know? And then And then And then Paul and I decided to go different ways Paul and I decided to go different ways Paul and I decided to go different ways cuz uh in terms of the theory. So, we cuz uh in terms of the theory. So, we cuz uh in terms of the theory. So, we have SLII, which is our form of have SLII, which is our form of have SLII, which is our form of Situational Leadership. But, it's really Situational Leadership. But, it's really Situational Leadership. But, it's really saying saying saying that you need different strokes for that you need different strokes for that you need different strokes for different folks, different folks, different folks, but you also, and this is really but you also, and this is really but you also, and this is really powerful, you need different strokes for powerful, you need different strokes for powerful, you need different strokes for the same folks on different parts of the same folks on different parts of the same folks on different parts of their job. And that there's no one best their job. And that there's no one best their job. And that there's no one best leadership style leadership style leadership style uh to use with one person or one You uh to use with one person or one You uh to use with one person or one You have to look at the task and ask, "What have to look at the task and ask, "What have to look at the task and ask, "What is their competence to do this task?"

is their competence to do this task?" is their competence to do this task?" And what is their commitment? And we And what is their commitment? And we And what is their commitment? And we start off with enthusiastic beginners, start off with enthusiastic beginners, start off with enthusiastic beginners, you know? you know? you know? Uh very sometime where people are Uh very sometime where people are Uh very sometime where people are excited to learn something, but they excited to learn something, but they excited to learn something, but they don't have the skills yet. They need don't have the skills yet. They need don't have the skills yet. They need direction. direction. direction. And then they get a little disillusioned And then they get a little disillusioned And then they get a little disillusioned cuz it's more complicated than they cuz it's more complicated than they cuz it's more complicated than they thought. So, they need coaching. thought. So, they need coaching. thought. So, they need coaching. And if you can coach them through And if you can coach them through And if you can coach them through disillusionment, then they get to the disillusionment, then they get to the disillusionment, then they get to the point where they got the skills, but point where they got the skills, but point where they got the skills, but they still want somebody to support and they still want somebody to support and they still want somebody to support and encourage them until eventually you can encourage them until eventually you can encourage them until eventually you can delegate uh to them because they're a a delegate uh to them because they're a a delegate uh to them because they're a a peak performer. And so, we developed peak performer. And so, we developed peak performer. And so, we developed these four these four these four uh development levels of with the uh development levels of with the uh development levels of with the leadership styles going through them and leadership styles going through them and leadership styles going through them and it really made a made a lot of sense. it really made a made a lot of sense. it really made a made a lot of sense. And so And so And so our whole company's, I think, don't you our whole company's, I think, don't you our whole company's, I think, don't you think Randy is built on simple truth think Randy is built on simple truth think Randy is built on simple truth theories? And I think that's why we've theories? And I think that's why we've theories? And I think that's why we've done so well. We're like 30 or 40 done so well. We're like 30 or 40 done so well. We're like 30 or 40 nations, you know? We got 300 people nations, you know? We got 300 people nations, you know? We got 300 people around the world working with this. around the world working with this. around the world working with this. Yeah, it's simple is better. And it's Yeah, it's simple is better. And it's Yeah, it's simple is better. And it's not to not to not to you know, demean any other type of you know, demean any other type of you know, demean any other type of approach, you know, with the approach, you know, with the approach, you know, with the typical business book approach and and typical business book approach and and typical business book approach and and all of our teachings are grounded in all of our teachings are grounded in all of our teachings are grounded in research and research and research and um um um But you know, it it's like Carrie, you But you know, it it's like Carrie, you But you know, it it's like Carrie, you know, you go to any conference, you read know, you go to any conference, you read know, you go to any conference, you read any big business book, right? What do any big business book, right? What do any big business book, right? What do you remember? You remember the two or you remember? You remember the two or you remember? You remember the two or three key nuggets, right? Those those three key nuggets, right? Those those three key nuggets, right? Those those little phrases, the little concepts that

little phrases, the little concepts that little phrases, the little concepts that point you to a bigger message, right? point you to a bigger message, right? point you to a bigger message, right? But that's why we create these models is But that's why we create these models is But that's why we create these models is because they allow us to because they allow us to because they allow us to practically work with these bigger practically work with these bigger practically work with these bigger truths, right? These bigger concepts truths, right? These bigger concepts truths, right? These bigger concepts and it puts it in a more tangible, and it puts it in a more tangible, and it puts it in a more tangible, practical package that we can actually practical package that we can actually practical package that we can actually use day-to-day to improve our use day-to-day to improve our use day-to-day to improve our performance. performance. performance. So I want to look back, you know, over So I want to look back, you know, over So I want to look back, you know, over inflection points because the success inflection points because the success inflection points because the success you guys have both experienced has been you guys have both experienced has been you guys have both experienced has been remarkable. Randy, you've been around remarkable. Randy, you've been around remarkable. Randy, you've been around for 30 years, so you can for 30 years, so you can for 30 years, so you can definitely speak into this. Ken, you've definitely speak into this. Ken, you've definitely speak into this. Ken, you've been around for the whole journey, but been around for the whole journey, but been around for the whole journey, but when you look back, when you look back, when you look back, what are one or two key decisions or what are one or two key decisions or what are one or two key decisions or turning points that you had, decisions turning points that you had, decisions turning points that you had, decisions that you made that really were that you made that really were that you made that really were inflection points for your organization? inflection points for your organization? inflection points for your organization? I don't know who wants to go first, but I don't know who wants to go first, but I don't know who wants to go first, but I'd love to know one or two like, "Wow, I'd love to know one or two like, "Wow, I'd love to know one or two like, "Wow, I'm so glad we did that. That made a way I'm so glad we did that. That made a way I'm so glad we did that. That made a way bigger impact than we thought." Mhm.

bigger impact than we thought." Mhm. bigger impact than we thought." Mhm. Well, I think the big thing and Randy Well, I think the big thing and Randy Well, I think the big thing and Randy can build on this, too, is is we can build on this, too, is is we can build on this, too, is is we mentioned it. mentioned it. mentioned it. My wife, Margie, and I, when we started My wife, Margie, and I, when we started My wife, Margie, and I, when we started the company, she was president. She was the company, she was president. She was the company, she was president. She was She's much better at that kind of thing. She's much better at that kind of thing. She's much better at that kind of thing. I've I'm the chief spiritual officer. I've I'm the chief spiritual officer. I've I'm the chief spiritual officer. I'm a cheerleader, you know. I'm a cheerleader, you know. I'm a cheerleader, you know. And all but is that And all but is that And all but is that we had a philosophy about leadership we had a philosophy about leadership we had a philosophy about leadership about we rather than me. Mhm. And we about we rather than me. Mhm. And we about we rather than me. Mhm. And we were anti-the-hierarchy were anti-the-hierarchy were anti-the-hierarchy cuz cuz cuz have been in universities, you know, have been in universities, you know, have been in universities, you know, where everybody's sucking up the where everybody's sucking up the where everybody's sucking up the hierarchy and hierarchy and hierarchy and all that kind of thing and that just all that kind of thing and that just all that kind of thing and that just didn't make any sense. And when we didn't make any sense. And when we didn't make any sense. And when we decided to start our own company, we decided to start our own company, we decided to start our own company, we certainly didn't want any of that and we certainly didn't want any of that and we certainly didn't want any of that and we were the were the were the and we were hiring bright, capable and we were hiring bright, capable and we were hiring bright, capable people. And we wanted to use their people. And we wanted to use their people. And we wanted to use their brains as much as ours. So, we'd say, brains as much as ours. So, we'd say, brains as much as ours. So, we'd say, you know, we have things to share, but you know, we have things to share, but you know, we have things to share, but what do you think? what do you think? what do you think? Uh you know, and so it wasn't sort of Uh you know, and so it wasn't sort of Uh you know, and so it wasn't sort of uh we lay down the law and and this is uh we lay down the law and and this is uh we lay down the law and and this is the way we're going to do it. How do we the way we're going to do it. How do we the way we're going to do it. How do we do it together?

do it together? do it together? Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. So, that was a a turning point for you. So, that was a a turning point for you. So, that was a a turning point for you. We, not me. We, not me. We, not me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Randy, what are what are one or Awesome. Randy, what are what are one or Awesome. Randy, what are what are one or two strategic moves, decisions, moments two strategic moves, decisions, moments two strategic moves, decisions, moments that were inflection points in your that were inflection points in your that were inflection points in your view? view? view? Uh well, personally or professionally or Uh well, personally or professionally or Uh well, personally or professionally or both or either or? both or either or? both or either or? Yeah, yeah. Well, when you think about Yeah, yeah. Well, when you think about Yeah, yeah. Well, when you think about the trajectory of the company or your the trajectory of the company or your the trajectory of the company or your own career, what do you see? own career, what do you see? own career, what do you see? Well, a personal one was prior to Well, a personal one was prior to Well, a personal one was prior to joining Blanchard, all in the same week, joining Blanchard, all in the same week, joining Blanchard, all in the same week, my wife gave birth to our second child. my wife gave birth to our second child. my wife gave birth to our second child. Wow. Wow. Wow. I graduated from I graduated from I graduated from college with my bachelor's degree. I had college with my bachelor's degree. I had college with my bachelor's degree. I had dropped out and went back as an adult. dropped out and went back as an adult. dropped out and went back as an adult. And I got laid off from my job. And I got laid off from my job. And I got laid off from my job. All three big events in the same week. All three big events in the same week. All three big events in the same week. And as I started my job search, And as I started my job search, And as I started my job search, I ran across this opening at Blanchard. I ran across this opening at Blanchard. I ran across this opening at Blanchard. And I'm like, that name Blanchard rings And I'm like, that name Blanchard rings And I'm like, that name Blanchard rings a bell. a bell. a bell. Where was it?

Where was it? Where was it? And lo and behold, as I interviewed and And lo and behold, as I interviewed and And lo and behold, as I interviewed and ended up getting, you know, a job at ended up getting, you know, a job at ended up getting, you know, a job at Blanchard, I realized Blanchard, I realized Blanchard, I realized it was from my management class. Ken's it was from my management class. Ken's it was from my management class. Ken's textbook, Management of Organizational textbook, Management of Organizational textbook, Management of Organizational Behavior, right? It was one of my Behavior, right? It was one of my Behavior, right? It was one of my textbooks and I remember reading about textbooks and I remember reading about textbooks and I remember reading about Situational Leadership. Situational Leadership. Situational Leadership. I was saying to myself, I was saying to myself, I was saying to myself, wow, this makes sense to me. This is the wow, this makes sense to me. This is the wow, this makes sense to me. This is the kind of leader I want to be. It's what I kind of leader I want to be. It's what I kind of leader I want to be. It's what I believe about leadership. believe about leadership. believe about leadership. And I remember looking in the footnote And I remember looking in the footnote And I remember looking in the footnote at the bottom of the page, it says, Ken at the bottom of the page, it says, Ken at the bottom of the page, it says, Ken Blanchard, Escondido, California. And Blanchard, Escondido, California. And Blanchard, Escondido, California. And I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, oh, wow, this guy lives right here in in oh, wow, this guy lives right here in in oh, wow, this guy lives right here in in in my town. I didn't even know that. in my town. I didn't even know that. in my town. I didn't even know that. So, that life experience was uh an So, that life experience was uh an So, that life experience was uh an inflection point for me that set me off inflection point for me that set me off inflection point for me that set me off on a different direction in my career. on a different direction in my career. on a different direction in my career. And then I think corporately, And then I think corporately, And then I think corporately, uh uh uh we, Blanchard, has chosen to really we, Blanchard, has chosen to really we, Blanchard, has chosen to really focus on what we call the heart of the focus on what we call the heart of the focus on what we call the heart of the house. house. house. And that's And that's And that's all those managers, you know, in the all those managers, you know, in the all those managers, you know, in the heart of the house, in the middle heart of the house, in the middle heart of the house, in the middle layers. Yeah, we do work with executive layers. Yeah, we do work with executive layers. Yeah, we do work with executive leaders, that's part of what we do.

leaders, that's part of what we do. leaders, that's part of what we do. And we do work with frontline And we do work with frontline And we do work with frontline supervisors, we do that too. But the supervisors, we do that too. But the supervisors, we do that too. But the heart of the house, all those managers heart of the house, all those managers heart of the house, all those managers in between, in between, in between, those are the people, those are the foot those are the people, those are the foot those are the people, those are the foot soldiers of every organization, right? soldiers of every organization, right? soldiers of every organization, right? They're the ones that impact They're the ones that impact They're the ones that impact the day-to-day life of the day-to-day life of the day-to-day life of all the people in the organization. And all the people in the organization. And all the people in the organization. And we've chosen over the years to stay we've chosen over the years to stay we've chosen over the years to stay focused in that area. focused in that area. focused in that area. And uh I I think it's really made a huge And uh I I think it's really made a huge And uh I I think it's really made a huge impact. That that's where we're most impact. That that's where we're most impact. That that's where we're most effective, that's our sweet spot. I'd effective, that's our sweet spot. I'd effective, that's our sweet spot. I'd love to know why you made that decision, love to know why you made that decision, love to know why you made that decision, because, you know, a lot of because, you know, a lot of because, you know, a lot of organizations would be saying, oh, we organizations would be saying, oh, we organizations would be saying, oh, we got to we got to get to the C-suite. We got to we got to get to the C-suite. We got to we got to get to the C-suite. We got to get to CEOs and VPs, et cetera." got to get to CEOs and VPs, et cetera." got to get to CEOs and VPs, et cetera." But you're like, "No, middle management But you're like, "No, middle management But you're like, "No, middle management is actually the heart of our company." is actually the heart of our company." is actually the heart of our company." Why that focus and decision? Why that focus and decision? Why that focus and decision? Well, Ken can chime in. I would say we Well, Ken can chime in. I would say we Well, Ken can chime in. I would say we don't do it to the exclusion of those don't do it to the exclusion of those don't do it to the exclusion of those other audiences cuz we do quite a lot of other audiences cuz we do quite a lot of other audiences cuz we do quite a lot of work with those other audiences.

work with those other audiences. work with those other audiences. And it's not an either/or, it's an and. And it's not an either/or, it's an and. And it's not an either/or, it's an and. It's a both. It's a both. It's a both. Okay. Okay. Okay. You know. But you haven't excluded them You know. But you haven't excluded them You know. But you haven't excluded them either, which a lot of companies would either, which a lot of companies would either, which a lot of companies would do. They would go for the higher ticket, do. They would go for the higher ticket, do. They would go for the higher ticket, right? right? right? Exactly. And Exactly. And Exactly. And the simple truths that Ken and all of the simple truths that Ken and all of the simple truths that Ken and all of his other co-authors that we've been his other co-authors that we've been his other co-authors that we've been uh you know, preaching over the years uh you know, preaching over the years uh you know, preaching over the years resonates with that heart of the house. resonates with that heart of the house. resonates with that heart of the house. Mhm. And and and the research shows that Mhm. And and and the research shows that Mhm. And and and the research shows that when you look at vital healthy when you look at vital healthy when you look at vital healthy organizations, organizations, organizations, um um um the executive leadership has indirect the executive leadership has indirect the executive leadership has indirect correlations to that. You know, because correlations to that. You know, because correlations to that. You know, because they're looking at the big picture, the they're looking at the big picture, the they're looking at the big picture, the strategies, the vision, the mission, strategies, the vision, the mission, strategies, the vision, the mission, right? right? right? The operational leadership, they've got The operational leadership, they've got The operational leadership, they've got the hands-on day-to-day, right? They're the hands-on day-to-day, right? They're the hands-on day-to-day, right? They're implementing all the day-to-day leader implementing all the day-to-day leader implementing all the day-to-day leader behaviors, behaviors, behaviors, all the issues around justice and all the issues around justice and all the issues around justice and fairness and you know, performance fairness and you know, performance fairness and you know, performance management. management. management. And and that's that's a sweet spot for And and that's that's a sweet spot for And and that's that's a sweet spot for us. And so, that's where you can really us. And so, that's where you can really us. And so, that's where you can really get some traction in developing the get some traction in developing the get some traction in developing the leadership culture that that you want leadership culture that that you want leadership culture that that you want and need in an organization.

and need in an organization. and need in an organization. And one of the interesting things, And one of the interesting things, And one of the interesting things, Barry, is that Barry, is that Barry, is that we get asked a lot of time, "How can I we get asked a lot of time, "How can I we get asked a lot of time, "How can I influence the top managers? Cuz they influence the top managers? Cuz they influence the top managers? Cuz they don't seem to don't seem to don't seem to get it." You know, and get it." You know, and get it." You know, and what we really say is that you need to what we really say is that you need to what we really say is that you need to first develop a relationship with them. first develop a relationship with them. first develop a relationship with them. A lot of times people will go to top A lot of times people will go to top A lot of times people will go to top managers and say, "You know, you're not managers and say, "You know, you're not managers and say, "You know, you're not doing this you all that kind of thing doing this you all that kind of thing doing this you all that kind of thing and they'll throw you out of the office. and they'll throw you out of the office. and they'll throw you out of the office. But if you develop a relationship with But if you develop a relationship with But if you develop a relationship with them, find out something that they're them, find out something that they're them, find out something that they're interested in that you're interested in interested in that you're interested in interested in that you're interested in and then you could say, you know, here's and then you could say, you know, here's and then you could say, you know, here's something that we're trying in our something that we're trying in our something that we're trying in our department. I wonder what you think department. I wonder what you think department. I wonder what you think about it and does it have any about it and does it have any about it and does it have any application in the total organization? application in the total organization? application in the total organization? And so you develop relationships up the And so you develop relationships up the And so you develop relationships up the hierarchy rather than win-lose hierarchy rather than win-lose hierarchy rather than win-lose relationships. It's how do we create a relationships. It's how do we create a relationships. It's how do we create a win-win win-win win-win uh thing and so it's a uh thing and so it's a uh thing and so it's a it's it's collegial it's it's collegial it's it's collegial uh stuff.

uh stuff. uh stuff. And one of the the things that I And one of the the things that I And one of the the things that I remember most, this could be a talk from remember most, this could be a talk from remember most, this could be a talk from what is now the Global Leadership Summit what is now the Global Leadership Summit what is now the Global Leadership Summit years ago, back when it was whatever the years ago, back when it was whatever the years ago, back when it was whatever the Willow Creek Summit or whatever. But I Willow Creek Summit or whatever. But I Willow Creek Summit or whatever. But I remember you talking about seagull remember you talking about seagull remember you talking about seagull management. And you kind of read my management. And you kind of read my management. And you kind of read my mail. Can you, for leaders who may not mail. Can you, for leaders who may not mail. Can you, for leaders who may not be familiar with that concept, talk be familiar with that concept, talk be familiar with that concept, talk about what seagull management is? about what seagull management is? about what seagull management is? Well, that's the typical top-down Well, that's the typical top-down Well, that's the typical top-down organization where the top managers organization where the top managers organization where the top managers think they have all the brains and then think they have all the brains and then think they have all the brains and then when they wander around um what they do when they wander around um what they do when they wander around um what they do is they focus on what's wrong rather is they focus on what's wrong rather is they focus on what's wrong rather than what's right. than what's right. than what's right. They call them seagull managers. They They call them seagull managers. They They call them seagull managers. They fly in, make a lot of noise, crap on fly in, make a lot of noise, crap on fly in, make a lot of noise, crap on everybody and then fly out. You know. everybody and then fly out. You know. everybody and then fly out. You know. And uh And uh And uh and they wonder why, you know, people and they wonder why, you know, people and they wonder why, you know, people are leaving and and aren't really are leaving and and aren't really are leaving and and aren't really committed, you know, and so no, it's committed, you know, and so no, it's committed, you know, and so no, it's it's how do you work with your people it's how do you work with your people it's how do you work with your people and not seagull in, you know, and uh so and not seagull in, you know, and uh so and not seagull in, you know, and uh so uh uh uh see, cuz what happens when you seagull see, cuz what happens when you seagull see, cuz what happens when you seagull in, then you get a bunch of ducks, you in, then you get a bunch of ducks, you in, then you get a bunch of ducks, you know, we we love to talk about that.

know, we we love to talk about that. know, we we love to talk about that. They go quack quack, it's our job. They go quack quack, it's our job. They go quack quack, it's our job. Quack, you know, you know, and and uh so Quack, you know, you know, and and uh so Quack, you know, you know, and and uh so you got seagulls running and ducks going you got seagulls running and ducks going you got seagulls running and ducks going and the place is a noisy place, but it's and the place is a noisy place, but it's and the place is a noisy place, but it's not not not it's not producing what what you really it's not producing what what you really it's not producing what what you really really want where you want people to really want where you want people to really want where you want people to say, "This is this is the the place to say, "This is this is the the place to say, "This is this is the the place to be." be." be." Uh Uh Uh and this is where we want want to where and this is where we want want to where and this is where we want want to where this is where we want to work. this is where we want to work. this is where we want to work. That is the power of a simple metaphor That is the power of a simple metaphor That is the power of a simple metaphor though. As soon as you said, you know, though. As soon as you said, you know, though. As soon as you said, you know, this is most managers, you're not there this is most managers, you're not there this is most managers, you're not there very often, you swoop in, crap all over very often, you swoop in, crap all over very often, you swoop in, crap all over people, and leave seagull management. people, and leave seagull management. people, and leave seagull management. I'm like I'm like I'm like anybody can understand that. It's so anybody can understand that. It's so anybody can understand that. It's so powerful. It captures exactly how a lot powerful. It captures exactly how a lot powerful. It captures exactly how a lot of leaders lead and this is a leadership of leaders lead and this is a leadership of leaders lead and this is a leadership podcast. What is the key podcast. What is the key podcast. What is the key cuz you have a bunch of them in your cuz you have a bunch of them in your cuz you have a bunch of them in your servant leadership Randy and your stuff servant leadership Randy and your stuff servant leadership Randy and your stuff on trust? What is the key to developing on trust? What is the key to developing on trust? What is the key to developing short, memorable metaphor statements, short, memorable metaphor statements, short, memorable metaphor statements, pithy phrases that's simple but pithy phrases that's simple but pithy phrases that's simple but profound? I mean, it's not it's not like profound? I mean, it's not it's not like profound? I mean, it's not it's not like it's not a nursery rhyme. It's deeply it's not a nursery rhyme. It's deeply it's not a nursery rhyme. It's deeply profound because it's like, "No, that's profound because it's like, "No, that's profound because it's like, "No, that's exactly how it works." You can say it in exactly how it works." You can say it in exactly how it works." You can say it in 10 seconds. How do you develop things 10 seconds. How do you develop things 10 seconds. How do you develop things that are that simple but carry actual that are that simple but carry actual that are that simple but carry actual weight?

weight? weight? Wow. Wow. Wow. Well, Well, Well, that's top secret, Carey. that's top secret, Carey. that's top secret, Carey. There's the IP, right? We're going to There's the IP, right? We're going to There's the IP, right? We're going to going to have to stop recording. Yeah, going to have to stop recording. Yeah, going to have to stop recording. Yeah, we could tell you, but then we'd have we could tell you, but then we'd have we could tell you, but then we'd have to, you know. Yeah. to, you know. Yeah. to, you know. Yeah. That would be the end of me. Mhm. That would be the end of me. Mhm. That would be the end of me. Mhm. No, it's No, it's No, it's it it it I I don't have a great answer for you, I I don't have a great answer for you, I I don't have a great answer for you, Carey. You know, it's um Carey. You know, it's um Carey. You know, it's um I think it's a couple of things, you I think it's a couple of things, you I think it's a couple of things, you know, one is I think knowing your know, one is I think knowing your know, one is I think knowing your audience, right? Like what will resonate audience, right? Like what will resonate audience, right? Like what will resonate with them. Yeah. Number two, looking at with them. Yeah. Number two, looking at with them. Yeah. Number two, looking at your own personal experience, your own personal experience, your own personal experience, you know? you know? you know? Um Um Um for me, like when I'm writing and trying for me, like when I'm writing and trying for me, like when I'm writing and trying to communicate concepts to people, I to communicate concepts to people, I to communicate concepts to people, I often think first in headlines, often think first in headlines, often think first in headlines, you know? you know? you know? Damn. Damn. Damn. Like article headlines or titles. That's Like article headlines or titles. That's Like article headlines or titles. That's helpful. helpful. helpful. And and if I can sort of come up with And and if I can sort of come up with And and if I can sort of come up with that, then I can start to that, then I can start to that, then I can start to sort of formulate sort of formulate sort of formulate the message, you know, whatever that the message, you know, whatever that the message, you know, whatever that looks like. Whether it's uh you know, an looks like. Whether it's uh you know, an looks like. Whether it's uh you know, an an actual article, uh you know, some an actual article, uh you know, some an actual article, uh you know, some some metaphors.

some metaphors. some metaphors. Um Um Um Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. That's how it works for me. I don't That's how it works for me. I don't That's how it works for me. I don't know. What about you, Ken? Do you Yeah, know. What about you, Ken? Do you Yeah, know. What about you, Ken? Do you Yeah, do you actually remember how you came up do you actually remember how you came up do you actually remember how you came up with Seagull Management? with Seagull Management? with Seagull Management? Well, I don't know. I Well, I don't know. I Well, I don't know. I do that stuff in my sleep, maybe, but uh do that stuff in my sleep, maybe, but uh do that stuff in my sleep, maybe, but uh I I think the big thing that I enjoy I I think the big thing that I enjoy I I think the big thing that I enjoy carrying out more than anything is that carrying out more than anything is that carrying out more than anything is that the the the the big problem with the big problem with the big problem with uh self-serving leaders is their ego. uh self-serving leaders is their ego. uh self-serving leaders is their ego. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. I've started a 12-step Egos Anonymous I've started a 12-step Egos Anonymous I've started a 12-step Egos Anonymous because it's because it's because it's it's the it's the biggest addiction in it's the it's the biggest addiction in it's the it's the biggest addiction in in the business world. Wow. And there's in the business world. Wow. And there's in the business world. Wow. And there's two forms of ego. One is false pride, two forms of ego. One is false pride, two forms of ego. One is false pride, when you come from a more-than when you come from a more-than when you come from a more-than philosophy, you think you're brighter philosophy, you think you're brighter philosophy, you think you're brighter than people and and all and and all. And than people and and all and and all. And than people and and all and and all. And the other is uh fear or self-doubt where the other is uh fear or self-doubt where the other is uh fear or self-doubt where you have less-than you have less-than you have less-than positive feelings about yourself. A lot positive feelings about yourself. A lot positive feelings about yourself. A lot of people say, "How How's that an ego?" of people say, "How How's that an ego?" of people say, "How How's that an ego?" I say, "Well, you're focused on your on I say, "Well, you're focused on your on I say, "Well, you're focused on your on yourself, and so yourself, and so yourself, and so what we try to do, we have a number of what we try to do, we have a number of what we try to do, we have a number of managers that managers that managers that they have their weekly meeting with they have their weekly meeting with they have their weekly meeting with their people, and they start it off with their people, and they start it off with their people, and they start it off with an Egos Anonymous meeting where you got an Egos Anonymous meeting where you got an Egos Anonymous meeting where you got to stand up one by one and say, "Hi, I'm to stand up one by one and say, "Hi, I'm to stand up one by one and say, "Hi, I'm Ken." And everybody says, "Hi, Ken." And Ken." And everybody says, "Hi, Ken." And Ken." And everybody says, "Hi, Ken." And I'm an ego maniac. And you have to talk I'm an ego maniac. And you have to talk I'm an ego maniac. And you have to talk about sometime that week when you think about sometime that week when you think about sometime that week when you think your ego might have gotten in your way your ego might have gotten in your way your ego might have gotten in your way either with false pride or self.

either with false pride or self. either with false pride or self. And if if we always say, "If you can't And if if we always say, "If you can't And if if we always say, "If you can't think of an example, then you probably think of an example, then you probably think of an example, then you probably lie about other things, too." lie about other things, too." lie about other things, too." The ego comes up periodically, and and The ego comes up periodically, and and The ego comes up periodically, and and it it is something we have to really it it is something we have to really it it is something we have to really work on and laugh about and all that work on and laugh about and all that work on and laugh about and all that kind of thing because if we're going to kind of thing because if we're going to kind of thing because if we're going to do a we culture not me, we have to get do a we culture not me, we have to get do a we culture not me, we have to get our egos out of the way. our egos out of the way. our egos out of the way. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. That's so good. Mhm. That's so good. Mhm. That's so good. Um Um Um Yeah, I don't I want to talk a little Yeah, I don't I want to talk a little Yeah, I don't I want to talk a little bit more about that. So, you know, you bit more about that. So, you know, you bit more about that. So, you know, you have so many competing ideas, but have so many competing ideas, but have so many competing ideas, but there's a life theme. Randy, yours is there's a life theme. Randy, yours is there's a life theme. Randy, yours is about trust. Ken, yours is about servant about trust. Ken, yours is about servant about trust. Ken, yours is about servant leadership. And it's funny, talk about leadership. And it's funny, talk about leadership. And it's funny, talk about memorable metaphors. I don't know memorable metaphors. I don't know memorable metaphors. I don't know whether it originates with you, but I whether it originates with you, but I whether it originates with you, but I think the first time I heard it again at think the first time I heard it again at think the first time I heard it again at a big public leadership conference was a big public leadership conference was a big public leadership conference was from you, Ken. from you, Ken. from you, Ken. Probably in the '90s, ego stands for Probably in the '90s, ego stands for Probably in the '90s, ego stands for edging God out. Right? Is that original edging God out. Right? Is that original edging God out. Right? Is that original to you or did you pick that up somewhere to you or did you pick that up somewhere to you or did you pick that up somewhere else or I I don't know where that came.

else or I I don't know where that came. else or I I don't know where that came. It's so widely quoted now, but you were It's so widely quoted now, but you were It's so widely quoted now, but you were the first one I heard it from. I'll take the first one I heard it from. I'll take the first one I heard it from. I'll take it. it. it. Yeah, might as well, right? Might as Yeah, might as well, right? Might as Yeah, might as well, right? Might as well. Nobody else is claiming it. Randy? well. Nobody else is claiming it. Randy? well. Nobody else is claiming it. Randy? Have you ever heard about the rules of Have you ever heard about the rules of Have you ever heard about the rules of attribution? You know? Uh no, go ahead. attribution? You know? Uh no, go ahead. attribution? You know? Uh no, go ahead. Okay. Well, the first time you say Okay. Well, the first time you say Okay. Well, the first time you say something when you're giving a talk, you something when you're giving a talk, you something when you're giving a talk, you say, "Well, Ken Blanchard has said, you say, "Well, Ken Blanchard has said, you say, "Well, Ken Blanchard has said, you know, blah blah blah, whatever it is, know, blah blah blah, whatever it is, know, blah blah blah, whatever it is, right?" The second time you use a piece right?" The second time you use a piece right?" The second time you use a piece of material, you say, "It's been said of material, you say, "It's been said of material, you say, "It's been said And the third time you use it, "I've And the third time you use it, "I've And the third time you use it, "I've always said Yeah, I think preachers do that a lot. Yeah, I think preachers do that a lot. Third time it becomes yours, you know. Third time it becomes yours, you know. Third time it becomes yours, you know. I'm I'm a bit of a footnote-er. I love I'm I'm a bit of a footnote-er. I love I'm I'm a bit of a footnote-er. I love to give credit where credit is due. But, to give credit where credit is due. But, to give credit where credit is due. But, uh that's great. So, you know, how did uh that's great. So, you know, how did uh that's great. So, you know, how did you center on trust? you center on trust? you center on trust? Randy, where why did that become like Randy, where why did that become like Randy, where why did that become like your specialty? How did you Because I your specialty? How did you Because I your specialty? How did you Because I think and and the I'll tell you the think and and the I'll tell you the think and and the I'll tell you the reason I'm asking the question. A lot of reason I'm asking the question. A lot of reason I'm asking the question. A lot of young leaders, you know, we're we all young leaders, you know, we're we all young leaders, you know, we're we all remember the day when the internet was remember the day when the internet was remember the day when the internet was nothing or you know, it was dial-up and nothing or you know, it was dial-up and nothing or you know, it was dial-up and information was scarce.

information was scarce. information was scarce. And, you know, you kind of pick a lane And, you know, you kind of pick a lane And, you know, you kind of pick a lane and you go with it. And now, literally, and you go with it. And now, literally, and you go with it. And now, literally, the world's your oyster. Everything's at the world's your oyster. Everything's at the world's your oyster. Everything's at your fingertips. I can be an, quote, your fingertips. I can be an, quote, your fingertips. I can be an, quote, expert on 72 different disciplines, and expert on 72 different disciplines, and expert on 72 different disciplines, and I think actually finding a focus is I think actually finding a focus is I think actually finding a focus is harder, harder, harder, but I would also argue, you know, we had but I would also argue, you know, we had but I would also argue, you know, we had we had Near AL on this podcast years ago we had Near AL on this podcast years ago we had Near AL on this podcast years ago and others, and others, and others, it's also Cal Newport, it's a it's also Cal Newport, it's a it's also Cal Newport, it's a superpower. If you can focus, if you can superpower. If you can focus, if you can superpower. If you can focus, if you can say, "I'm going to, you know, I'm going say, "I'm going to, you know, I'm going say, "I'm going to, you know, I'm going to look at a variety of things, but I'm to look at a variety of things, but I'm to look at a variety of things, but I'm going to focus on trust, or I'm going to going to focus on trust, or I'm going to going to focus on trust, or I'm going to build build build my leadership around servant leadership, my leadership around servant leadership, my leadership around servant leadership, right? The two expertises we have in the right? The two expertises we have in the right? The two expertises we have in the room now." room now." room now." First of all, agree or disagree, that's First of all, agree or disagree, that's First of all, agree or disagree, that's a competitive advantage. And then, a competitive advantage. And then, a competitive advantage. And then, secondly, secondly, secondly, how did you pick what you picked? Yeah. how did you pick what you picked? Yeah. how did you pick what you picked? Yeah. I agree with you that it's a competitive I agree with you that it's a competitive I agree with you that it's a competitive advantage, and advantage, and advantage, and trust for me was born out of life trust for me was born out of life trust for me was born out of life experiences that taught me the value of experiences that taught me the value of experiences that taught me the value of trust in relationships. And, uh, trust in relationships. And, uh, trust in relationships. And, uh, particularly difficult experiences when particularly difficult experiences when particularly difficult experiences when that trust was violated, and had to have that trust was violated, and had to have that trust was violated, and had to have it rebuilt.

it rebuilt. it rebuilt. And, And, And, trust had trust had trust had uh, because of those life experiences, uh, because of those life experiences, uh, because of those life experiences, trust had been one of my core values. trust had been one of my core values. trust had been one of my core values. So, is there a personal story under that So, is there a personal story under that So, is there a personal story under that that you feel comfortable sharing? that you feel comfortable sharing? that you feel comfortable sharing? There there is a personal story. I I I There there is a personal story. I I I There there is a personal story. I I I won't share the details, but I would say won't share the details, but I would say won't share the details, but I would say in my marriage with my wife, we've been in my marriage with my wife, we've been in my marriage with my wife, we've been married, um, married, um, married, um, 38 38 38 years this year. years this year. years this year. Congrats. We Thank you. We We Congrats. We Thank you. We We Congrats. We Thank you. We We experienced a breach of trust and experienced a breach of trust and experienced a breach of trust and between us. And, between us. And, between us. And, it was, um, it was, um, it was, um, you know, it it was a moment where you know, it it was a moment where you know, it it was a moment where things could have went south, things could have went south, things could have went south, right? And we called it quits, or we right? And we called it quits, or we right? And we called it quits, or we could have doubled down on could have doubled down on could have doubled down on what we knew what we knew what we knew we had and what God had in store for us we had and what God had in store for us we had and what God had in store for us and and so thankfully we chose that and and so thankfully we chose that and and so thankfully we chose that route and route and route and uh we worked through it and our uh we worked through it and our uh we worked through it and our relationship is relationship is relationship is so much more stronger than it ever was.

so much more stronger than it ever was. so much more stronger than it ever was. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. She works in the company, too. Yeah, my She works in the company, too. Yeah, my She works in the company, too. Yeah, my wife works in Oh, wow. Wow. Family wife works in Oh, wow. Wow. Family wife works in Oh, wow. Wow. Family affair at Blanchard, literally. Right, affair at Blanchard, literally. Right, affair at Blanchard, literally. Right, we have a we have a we have a um um um And so trust had been And so trust had been And so trust had been you know, just central to one of my core you know, just central to one of my core you know, just central to one of my core values. And years ago values. And years ago values. And years ago uh our company uh our company uh our company acquired a piece of content from a acquired a piece of content from a acquired a piece of content from a former Blanchard consultant who had former Blanchard consultant who had former Blanchard consultant who had developed a model around building trust developed a model around building trust developed a model around building trust and she was retiring and and we acquired and she was retiring and and we acquired and she was retiring and and we acquired the content and we needed someone to the content and we needed someone to the content and we needed someone to sort of be a product champion and sort of be a product champion and sort of be a product champion and represent it. And I raised my hand. And represent it. And I raised my hand. And represent it. And I raised my hand. And through a series of uh through a series of uh through a series of uh events, I became that person and it just events, I became that person and it just events, I became that person and it just talk about talk about talk about you know, those um you know, those um you know, those um I think there's a movie called Sliding I think there's a movie called Sliding I think there's a movie called Sliding Doors that's Doors that's Doors that's Haven't seen that. Yeah. Haven't seen that. Yeah. Haven't seen that. Yeah. uses the metaphor of like, you know, a a uses the metaphor of like, you know, a a uses the metaphor of like, you know, a a door slides open and you step through door slides open and you step through door slides open and you step through and if you had not stepped through and if you had not stepped through and if you had not stepped through your life would have been different, your life would have been different, your life would have been different, right? You Mhm. different choice and so right? You Mhm. different choice and so right? You Mhm. different choice and so I stepped through that door and it set I stepped through that door and it set I stepped through that door and it set me off on this trajectory of me off on this trajectory of me off on this trajectory of becoming a subject matter expert in becoming a subject matter expert in becoming a subject matter expert in trust, doing a lot of research, a lot of trust, doing a lot of research, a lot of trust, doing a lot of research, a lot of writing, um writing, um writing, um you know, working with clients in the you know, working with clients in the you know, working with clients in the field.

field. field. And And And so I I I think for those who really so I I I think for those who really so I I I think for those who really become become become experts, you know, whatever definition experts, you know, whatever definition experts, you know, whatever definition you want to qualify as an expert you want to qualify as an expert you want to qualify as an expert I think they there's often an intense I think they there's often an intense I think they there's often an intense personal connection personal connection personal connection to what it is, right? That they champion to what it is, right? That they champion to what it is, right? That they champion and I know it's and I know it's and I know it's similar with Ken and his focus on similar with Ken and his focus on similar with Ken and his focus on servant leadership. Yeah, Ken, life servant leadership. Yeah, Ken, life servant leadership. Yeah, Ken, life focus. Good idea, bad idea for young focus. Good idea, bad idea for young focus. Good idea, bad idea for young leaders, and then tell us about servant leaders, and then tell us about servant leaders, and then tell us about servant leadership. Well, I think leadership. Well, I think leadership. Well, I think getting some focus on getting some focus on getting some focus on uh uh uh where your skills are, where your values where your skills are, where your values where your skills are, where your values are, are, are, you know, what what you know, if if you you know, what what you know, if if you you know, what what you know, if if you really do something you care about, you really do something you care about, you really do something you care about, you never have to work a day in your life, never have to work a day in your life, never have to work a day in your life, you know. you know. you know. And so, that's really important. I got And so, that's really important. I got And so, that's really important. I got interested in servant leadership because interested in servant leadership because interested in servant leadership because I really found that people didn't I really found that people didn't I really found that people didn't understand what it was all about. They understand what it was all about. They understand what it was all about. They were thinking it was about the inmates were thinking it was about the inmates were thinking it was about the inmates running the prison or trying to please running the prison or trying to please running the prison or trying to please everybody or some kind of just movement.

everybody or some kind of just movement. everybody or some kind of just movement. They didn't understand there's actually They didn't understand there's actually They didn't understand there's actually two parts of servant leadership. two parts of servant leadership. two parts of servant leadership. One comes from the traditional One comes from the traditional One comes from the traditional hierarchy. That's the vision, values, hierarchy. That's the vision, values, hierarchy. That's the vision, values, you know, direction and goals. you know, direction and goals. you know, direction and goals. Leadership's about going somewhere, and Leadership's about going somewhere, and Leadership's about going somewhere, and that's responsibility of the hierarchy. that's responsibility of the hierarchy. that's responsibility of the hierarchy. It doesn't mean you don't involve other It doesn't mean you don't involve other It doesn't mean you don't involve other people in getting there, but if people people in getting there, but if people people in getting there, but if people aren't clear on what they're being asked aren't clear on what they're being asked aren't clear on what they're being asked to do or what good behavior looks like, to do or what good behavior looks like, to do or what good behavior looks like, shame on you because that's your shame on you because that's your shame on you because that's your responsibility. And once the vision, responsibility. And once the vision, responsibility. And once the vision, direction, values, and all are clear, direction, values, and all are clear, direction, values, and all are clear, now you go to the servant part of now you go to the servant part of now you go to the servant part of servant leadership, and you turn the servant leadership, and you turn the servant leadership, and you turn the pyramid upside down, and now you work pyramid upside down, and now you work pyramid upside down, and now you work for your people, and your job is to help for your people, and your job is to help for your people, and your job is to help them win. It's to do what? Live them win. It's to do what? Live them win. It's to do what? Live according to the vision and values, and according to the vision and values, and according to the vision and values, and accomplish the goals that are in their accomplish the goals that are in their accomplish the goals that are in their particular area. When you look at it particular area. When you look at it particular area. When you look at it that way, boy, that's really a powerful that way, boy, that's really a powerful that way, boy, that's really a powerful powerful thing, you know, and uh so, uh powerful thing, you know, and uh so, uh powerful thing, you know, and uh so, uh the ultimate, you know, when we get your the ultimate, you know, when we get your the ultimate, you know, when we get your egos out of the way, you know, I mean, egos out of the way, you know, I mean, egos out of the way, you know, I mean, we all I always talk about what did what we all I always talk about what did what we all I always talk about what did what did Jesus do? He got down, and he washed did Jesus do? He got down, and he washed did Jesus do? He got down, and he washed the feet of his disciples.

the feet of his disciples. the feet of his disciples. You know, You know, You know, he was trying to demonstrate to them, he was trying to demonstrate to them, he was trying to demonstrate to them, "You just as I have done for you, do for "You just as I have done for you, do for "You just as I have done for you, do for others." others." others." You know, the ultimate in servant You know, the ultimate in servant You know, the ultimate in servant leadership is you really eventually work leadership is you really eventually work leadership is you really eventually work for them, but it's got to be clear. And for them, but it's got to be clear. And for them, but it's got to be clear. And he came down with a clear message and he came down with a clear message and he came down with a clear message and the same values and direction, you know, the same values and direction, you know, the same values and direction, you know, and then here we got to get you to use and then here we got to get you to use and then here we got to get you to use it. it. it. Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Yeah, I guess that Ken retirement isn't Yeah, I guess that Ken retirement isn't Yeah, I guess that Ken retirement isn't a concept for you, is it? a concept for you, is it? a concept for you, is it? You're still going. I wrote a book You're still going. I wrote a book You're still going. I wrote a book called Refire. called Refire. called Refire. Um Um Um uh don't retire, make the rest of your uh don't retire, make the rest of your uh don't retire, make the rest of your life the life the life the best of your life with Mark Schaver, who best of your life with Mark Schaver, who best of your life with Mark Schaver, who had headed up the psych department at had headed up the psych department at had headed up the psych department at University of San Diego. We We talk University of San Diego. We We talk University of San Diego. We We talk about four areas of refiring. First of about four areas of refiring. First of about four areas of refiring. First of all, what are you doing intellectually all, what are you doing intellectually all, what are you doing intellectually to stimulate your mind? to stimulate your mind? to stimulate your mind? What Secondly, what are you doing What Secondly, what are you doing What Secondly, what are you doing physically? physically? physically? Okay. Okay. Okay. What are you doing spiritually?

What are you doing spiritually? What are you doing spiritually? And finally, what are you doing And finally, what are you doing And finally, what are you doing emotionally with relationships and all? emotionally with relationships and all? emotionally with relationships and all? And take a look at at that. And you And take a look at at that. And you And take a look at at that. And you know, here I'm going to be know, here I'm going to be know, here I'm going to be uh into this week I'm going to be 85. uh into this week I'm going to be 85. uh into this week I'm going to be 85. And people say, you know, And people say, you know, And people say, you know, you don't seem like you're ready to you don't seem like you're ready to you don't seem like you're ready to retire. No, I said I'm continuing to retire. No, I said I'm continuing to retire. No, I said I'm continuing to refire. Cuz I'm really excited about refire. Cuz I'm really excited about refire. Cuz I'm really excited about different kinds of things and and uh different kinds of things and and uh different kinds of things and and uh trying to find things that we can do and trying to find things that we can do and trying to find things that we can do and excited. That's why it's been fun to excited. That's why it's been fun to excited. That's why it's been fun to work with Randy. And now I'm working on work with Randy. And now I'm working on work with Randy. And now I'm working on a book with my son Scott, who's the a book with my son Scott, who's the a book with my son Scott, who's the president of our company now. president of our company now. president of our company now. Uh Uh Uh and he's called it's always the leader. and he's called it's always the leader. and he's called it's always the leader. If things are going well, it's the If things are going well, it's the If things are going well, it's the leader. If things are going lousy, it's leader. If things are going lousy, it's leader. If things are going lousy, it's the leader. the leader. the leader. And that's what he's learned from me and And that's what he's learned from me and And that's what he's learned from me and what I've learned from him and what I've learned from him and what I've learned from him and and um and um and um And so that's really kind of very And so that's really kind of very And so that's really kind of very exciting. Uh to to to do that. They exciting. Uh to to to do that. They exciting. Uh to to to do that. They said, you know what? Another book at said, you know what? Another book at said, you know what? Another book at this time, you know? this time, you know? this time, you know? It's It's not another book. It's just It's It's not another book. It's just It's It's not another book. It's just another opportunity to learn another opportunity to learn another opportunity to learn uh from another person and and to uh from another person and and to uh from another person and and to uh 1 + 1 is a lot greater than 2.

uh 1 + 1 is a lot greater than 2. uh 1 + 1 is a lot greater than 2. What are you doing at almost 85 or soon What are you doing at almost 85 or soon What are you doing at almost 85 or soon 85 to keep you agile in those four 85 to keep you agile in those four 85 to keep you agile in those four areas? Obviously, you're writing, so areas? Obviously, you're writing, so areas? Obviously, you're writing, so that's intellectual. You're speaking, that's intellectual. You're speaking, that's intellectual. You're speaking, you're doing podcast interviews, you're you're doing podcast interviews, you're you're doing podcast interviews, you're still teaching your life's work. What still teaching your life's work. What still teaching your life's work. What are you doing physically, emotionally, are you doing physically, emotionally, are you doing physically, emotionally, and spiritually to refire? Physically, I and spiritually to refire? Physically, I and spiritually to refire? Physically, I have a have a have a exercise coach that works with me three exercise coach that works with me three exercise coach that works with me three times a week and I have an incumbent bio times a week and I have an incumbent bio times a week and I have an incumbent bio kin. kin. kin. I walk the dog and I walk the dog and I walk the dog and and things like that and uh and things like that and uh and things like that and uh then then then you know, you know, you know, spiritually, you know, I have Lead Like spiritually, you know, I have Lead Like spiritually, you know, I have Lead Like Jesus and Jesus and Jesus and and and and all the work that we've done in that all the work that we've done in that all the work that we've done in that area and then emotionally, I'm a area and then emotionally, I'm a area and then emotionally, I'm a relationship guy. relationship guy. relationship guy. You know, I I love Zoom because now I You know, I I love Zoom because now I You know, I I love Zoom because now I don't have to travel, but I think of don't have to travel, but I think of don't have to travel, but I think of somebody I could I can Zoom them somebody I could I can Zoom them somebody I could I can Zoom them and see how they're doing and what's and see how they're doing and what's and see how they're doing and what's happening uh happening uh happening uh with with them and so and so really is with with them and so and so really is with with them and so and so really is kind of fun. I love to Zoom around the kind of fun. I love to Zoom around the kind of fun. I love to Zoom around the world. And world. And world. And Ken is being very modest when he says Ken is being very modest when he says Ken is being very modest when he says he's a relationship guy.

he's a relationship guy. he's a relationship guy. I mean, Ken literally has lifelong I mean, Ken literally has lifelong I mean, Ken literally has lifelong friends from grade school, from junior friends from grade school, from junior friends from grade school, from junior high, high school, college that he stays high, high school, college that he stays high, high school, college that he stays in regular contact with with. It's not in regular contact with with. It's not in regular contact with with. It's not the you know, once every four or five the you know, once every four or five the you know, once every four or five years get in touch with someone. It's years get in touch with someone. It's years get in touch with someone. It's like regular occurrences. He's like regular occurrences. He's like regular occurrences. He's I just admire him so much for the way I just admire him so much for the way I just admire him so much for the way he's continued to he's continued to he's continued to nurture nurture nurture relationships because people are relationships because people are relationships because people are important to him. On Sunday, we're important to him. On Sunday, we're important to him. On Sunday, we're having a 85th birthday party that my having a 85th birthday party that my having a 85th birthday party that my wife and daughter are organizing and wife and daughter are organizing and wife and daughter are organizing and and it's going to be about 110 of my and it's going to be about 110 of my and it's going to be about 110 of my closest friends there. closest friends there. closest friends there. Uh Uh Uh And And And it's is going to be a be fun because I it's is going to be a be fun because I it's is going to be a be fun because I really really love love people, that's really really love love people, that's really really love love people, that's for sure. I have been studying a little for sure. I have been studying a little for sure. I have been studying a little bit. I mean, studying might be an bit. I mean, studying might be an bit. I mean, studying might be an exaggeration, but paying attention to exaggeration, but paying attention to exaggeration, but paying attention to what keeps people engaged, alive, and what keeps people engaged, alive, and what keeps people engaged, alive, and vibrant, you know, beyond 70, 80 years vibrant, you know, beyond 70, 80 years vibrant, you know, beyond 70, 80 years old. And I think that's an excellent old. And I think that's an excellent old. And I think that's an excellent recipe and relationships recipe and relationships recipe and relationships and new experiences and and new experiences and and new experiences and contributing I think is a huge part of contributing I think is a huge part of contributing I think is a huge part of it. Randy, I mean, from another angle, it. Randy, I mean, from another angle, it. Randy, I mean, from another angle, Ken's probably got a few decades on you, Ken's probably got a few decades on you, Ken's probably got a few decades on you, but um you've been at the same company but um you've been at the same company but um you've been at the same company for 28 years. That doesn't happen very for 28 years. That doesn't happen very for 28 years. That doesn't happen very often. So, what have been some of the often. So, what have been some of the often. So, what have been some of the keys to longevity within the same keys to longevity within the same keys to longevity within the same organization over multiple decades for organization over multiple decades for organization over multiple decades for you?

you? you? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I I think of several things. One Well, I I think of several things. One Well, I I think of several things. One is I really identify with our mission, is I really identify with our mission, is I really identify with our mission, you know, leaders powered for good, you know, leaders powered for good, you know, leaders powered for good, helping the workplace be a a better helping the workplace be a a better helping the workplace be a a better place. People have better days at work place. People have better days at work place. People have better days at work and and and and so it just really resonates with me, and so it just really resonates with me, and so it just really resonates with me, you know, um you know, um you know, um the people I work with are just the people I work with are just the people I work with are just tremendous, you know, it's the tremendous, you know, it's the tremendous, you know, it's the relationships. The people I get to work relationships. The people I get to work relationships. The people I get to work with. Some of my closest friends in life with. Some of my closest friends in life with. Some of my closest friends in life are those people that I work with, that are those people that I work with, that are those people that I work with, that I form relationships with. I form relationships with. I form relationships with. And And And uh I think the ability to grow and to do uh I think the ability to grow and to do uh I think the ability to grow and to do different things, you know, Blanchard is different things, you know, Blanchard is different things, you know, Blanchard is is a unique place in that is a unique place in that is a unique place in that it's not a huge organization, you know, it's not a huge organization, you know, it's not a huge organization, you know, we just have 300 people. we just have 300 people. we just have 300 people. Um Um Um but it's one of those organizations that but it's one of those organizations that but it's one of those organizations that if you put in the effort and express if you put in the effort and express if you put in the effort and express interest in certain areas, interest in certain areas, interest in certain areas, many many leaders are willing to give many many leaders are willing to give many many leaders are willing to give you a chance, you know, and say go for you a chance, you know, and say go for you a chance, you know, and say go for it, you know, like let's see if this it, you know, like let's see if this it, you know, like let's see if this works. And works. And works. And um um um so, you know, I've just been so blessed so, you know, I've just been so blessed so, you know, I've just been so blessed that over 28 years I've been able to that over 28 years I've been able to that over 28 years I've been able to do different things, take on different do different things, take on different do different things, take on different roles, roles, roles, and uh feel valued and appreciated.

and uh feel valued and appreciated. and uh feel valued and appreciated. Um so, I I I think that's, you know, Um so, I I I think that's, you know, Um so, I I I think that's, you know, it's it's not common these days to stay it's it's not common these days to stay it's it's not common these days to stay in one place, right? I mean, in one place, right? I mean, in one place, right? I mean, No, it's not. all the messages you hear No, it's not. all the messages you hear No, it's not. all the messages you hear out there are, "Oh, you should be out there are, "Oh, you should be out there are, "Oh, you should be changing jobs every 3 to 5 years, right? changing jobs every 3 to 5 years, right? changing jobs every 3 to 5 years, right? To To To move up and make more money and, you move up and make more money and, you move up and make more money and, you know, position yourself and build your know, position yourself and build your know, position yourself and build your portfolio and your resume and all this portfolio and your resume and all this portfolio and your resume and all this stuff." And stuff." And stuff." And that may work for some people. that may work for some people. that may work for some people. Um Um Um and it's not an either/or, and there's a and it's not an either/or, and there's a and it's not an either/or, and there's a lot of benefits to lot of benefits to lot of benefits to um um um knowing what you like and sticking with knowing what you like and sticking with knowing what you like and sticking with it, you know? it, you know? it, you know? You'll be fascinated. My wife is You'll be fascinated. My wife is You'll be fascinated. My wife is teaching a teaching a teaching a career planning course now internally at career planning course now internally at career planning course now internally at our company. Mhm. And uh uh she's done our company. Mhm. And uh uh she's done our company. Mhm. And uh uh she's done tons of them, and and about 80% of them tons of them, and and about 80% of them tons of them, and and about 80% of them all have, since she started doing it, all have, since she started doing it, all have, since she started doing it, have new different roles in the company. have new different roles in the company. have new different roles in the company. Cuz she helped them find out what their Cuz she helped them find out what their Cuz she helped them find out what their strengths are and how they can look for strengths are and how they can look for strengths are and how they can look for opportunities that maybe they they can opportunities that maybe they they can opportunities that maybe they they can even be more helpful. And so, you think, even be more helpful. And so, you think, even be more helpful. And so, you think, "My God, career planning, all these "My God, career planning, all these "My God, career planning, all these people are going to leave the company."

people are going to leave the company." people are going to leave the company." No, No, No, they're all looking for opportunities to they're all looking for opportunities to they're all looking for opportunities to to be their best within the company. to be their best within the company. to be their best within the company. Uh a really cool experience around that Uh a really cool experience around that Uh a really cool experience around that is Margie is Ken's wife. She She's is Margie is Ken's wife. She She's is Margie is Ken's wife. She She's really the brains of the operation. Ken really the brains of the operation. Ken really the brains of the operation. Ken will admit that, you know? will admit that, you know? will admit that, you know? She's She's fantastic. He He married She's She's fantastic. He He married She's She's fantastic. He He married above himself. We We both above himself. We We both above himself. We We both We've been married 63 years. Hey, We've been married 63 years. Hey, We've been married 63 years. Hey, congratulations. And uh that's a That's congratulations. And uh that's a That's congratulations. And uh that's a That's a great move to marry above yourself. a great move to marry above yourself. a great move to marry above yourself. I'm I'm familiar with that move. I'm I'm familiar with that move. I'm I'm familiar with that move. That's a good one. Probably, I don't I That's a good one. Probably, I don't I That's a good one. Probably, I don't I don't maybe don't maybe don't maybe 10, 12 years into my uh uh career with 10, 12 years into my uh uh career with 10, 12 years into my uh uh career with Blanchard, I went Blanchard, I went Blanchard, I went through Margie's class, this career through Margie's class, this career through Margie's class, this career exploration class. And one of the exploration class. And one of the exploration class. And one of the activities she has you do is activities she has you do is activities she has you do is write down your perfect day. write down your perfect day. write down your perfect day. Right? Right? Right? Write out your perfect day. Be very Write out your perfect day. Be very Write out your perfect day. Be very specific, right? Like what time you get specific, right? Like what time you get specific, right? Like what time you get up in the morning, what are you doing, up in the morning, what are you doing, up in the morning, what are you doing, what are you seeing, what are you what are you seeing, what are you what are you seeing, what are you feeling, you know, and and write out feeling, you know, and and write out feeling, you know, and and write out your perfect day.

your perfect day. your perfect day. And a few years back, And a few years back, And a few years back, it literally just dawned on me. it literally just dawned on me. it literally just dawned on me. I was like, wow. I was like, wow. I was like, wow. I'm living a whole lot of my perfect day I'm living a whole lot of my perfect day I'm living a whole lot of my perfect day that I wrote down in that, you know, that I wrote down in that, you know, that I wrote down in that, you know, getting to work with clients and helping getting to work with clients and helping getting to work with clients and helping them build trust and improve leadership them build trust and improve leadership them build trust and improve leadership in their organization. I'm getting to in their organization. I'm getting to in their organization. I'm getting to write, I'm getting to speak, I'm getting write, I'm getting to speak, I'm getting write, I'm getting to speak, I'm getting to, you know, coach people and and and to, you know, coach people and and and to, you know, coach people and and and it's just amazing, but, you know, it's just amazing, but, you know, it's just amazing, but, you know, um um um I won't say I had some miracle plan in I won't say I had some miracle plan in I won't say I had some miracle plan in place, you know, this grand strategic place, you know, this grand strategic place, you know, this grand strategic plan that helped me get there, plan that helped me get there, plan that helped me get there, but just having that ability to be but just having that ability to be but just having that ability to be someplace that allows you to keep moving someplace that allows you to keep moving someplace that allows you to keep moving forward, cuz like you said, Carrie, it's forward, cuz like you said, Carrie, it's forward, cuz like you said, Carrie, it's as we get older, it's like learning new as we get older, it's like learning new as we get older, it's like learning new experiences, right? Continuing to grow. experiences, right? Continuing to grow. experiences, right? Continuing to grow. Mhm. Um and it doesn't have to be big Mhm. Um and it doesn't have to be big Mhm. Um and it doesn't have to be big grand things, right? But it's just grand things, right? But it's just grand things, right? But it's just uh little steps forward, and uh little steps forward, and uh little steps forward, and before you know it, you're you're living before you know it, you're you're living before you know it, you're you're living out your your dream out your your dream out your your dream dream day.

dream day. dream day. So, I want to play a bit of a lightning So, I want to play a bit of a lightning So, I want to play a bit of a lightning round as we wind down, because your book round as we wind down, because your book round as we wind down, because your book is called Simple Truths of Leadership. is called Simple Truths of Leadership. is called Simple Truths of Leadership. It's playbook, 52 lessons, as we've It's playbook, 52 lessons, as we've It's playbook, 52 lessons, as we've talked about. Uh I want to talked about. Uh I want to talked about. Uh I want to pick a couple of my favorites that I pick a couple of my favorites that I pick a couple of my favorites that I want you to just explain quickly. And want you to just explain quickly. And want you to just explain quickly. And Ken, you've already talked about one, Ken, you've already talked about one, Ken, you've already talked about one, which is when you rewrote, reissued The which is when you rewrote, reissued The which is when you rewrote, reissued The One Minute Manager, you switched from One Minute Manager, you switched from One Minute Manager, you switched from the one minute reprimand to redirect. the one minute reprimand to redirect. the one minute reprimand to redirect. So, when people are off track, don't So, when people are off track, don't So, when people are off track, don't reprimand them, redirect them. Can you reprimand them, redirect them. Can you reprimand them, redirect them. Can you unpack that? What's involved with that? unpack that? What's involved with that? unpack that? What's involved with that? Yeah, what it means is that when you're Yeah, what it means is that when you're Yeah, what it means is that when you're wandering around, you first want to see wandering around, you first want to see wandering around, you first want to see what you can catch people doing things what you can catch people doing things what you can catch people doing things right and give them a hand. right and give them a hand. right and give them a hand. And if there's an area that they're not And if there's an area that they're not And if there's an area that they're not doing quite as well, say, "I notice that doing quite as well, say, "I notice that doing quite as well, say, "I notice that performance isn't going quite as well performance isn't going quite as well performance isn't going quite as well here as we had hoped. What can I do to here as we had hoped. What can I do to here as we had hoped. What can I do to help?" help?" help?" And redirect your efforts so that you And redirect your efforts so that you And redirect your efforts so that you can really feel good about that area, can really feel good about that area, can really feel good about that area, too. too. too. And redirection is just a way of saying, And redirection is just a way of saying, And redirection is just a way of saying, "How can I help you get back onto path?"

"How can I help you get back onto path?" "How can I help you get back onto path?" Or help you get Or help you get Or help you get improvement, get going in a improvement, get going in a improvement, get going in a in a better direction. in a better direction. in a better direction. Randy, I'm guessing this one's yours. Randy, I'm guessing this one's yours. Randy, I'm guessing this one's yours. Fear is the enemy of trust. There are, Fear is the enemy of trust. There are, Fear is the enemy of trust. There are, to be honest with you, a lot of leaders to be honest with you, a lot of leaders to be honest with you, a lot of leaders who don't mind if they're a little bit who don't mind if they're a little bit who don't mind if they're a little bit feared. It's like, "That's all right, feared. It's like, "That's all right, feared. It's like, "That's all right, you know? It's you you quake when I come you know? It's you you quake when I come you know? It's you you quake when I come in the office, not visibly, but like in the office, not visibly, but like in the office, not visibly, but like that's all right." What's the problem that's all right." What's the problem that's all right." What's the problem with that? with that? with that? Well, the problem is is that it warps Well, the problem is is that it warps Well, the problem is is that it warps people's people's people's uh risk-taking, their initiative, their uh risk-taking, their initiative, their uh risk-taking, their initiative, their sense of safety in an organization, you sense of safety in an organization, you sense of safety in an organization, you know, it really points to know, it really points to know, it really points to the bigger concept of psychological the bigger concept of psychological the bigger concept of psychological safety, right? safety, right? safety, right? Yeah. Like, can I speak up Yeah. Like, can I speak up Yeah. Like, can I speak up or offer an idea without fear of or offer an idea without fear of or offer an idea without fear of retribution or being put down or retribution or being put down or retribution or being put down or criticized? criticized? criticized? And And And it all comes back to this idea that it all comes back to this idea that it all comes back to this idea that trust requires risk. Mhm. trust requires risk. Mhm. trust requires risk. Mhm. Right? If there's no risk involved, Right? If there's no risk involved, Right? If there's no risk involved, there's no need to trust.

there's no need to trust. there's no need to trust. And trust is predicated on risk. And if And trust is predicated on risk. And if And trust is predicated on risk. And if people are afraid of taking a risk, people are afraid of taking a risk, people are afraid of taking a risk, stepping out, stepping out, stepping out, extending trust to people or or being extending trust to people or or being extending trust to people or or being trusted, it's not going to happen. So, trusted, it's not going to happen. So, trusted, it's not going to happen. So, it really prevents trust from even it really prevents trust from even it really prevents trust from even getting started. getting started. getting started. So, I've got a slightly different spin So, I've got a slightly different spin So, I've got a slightly different spin and it's not exactly fear, but I can and it's not exactly fear, but I can and it's not exactly fear, but I can think of a situation where there's a think of a situation where there's a think of a situation where there's a leader, a couple of leaders in the leader, a couple of leaders in the leader, a couple of leaders in the organization, senior, who uh one team organization, senior, who uh one team organization, senior, who uh one team member said she just holds an awe of member said she just holds an awe of member said she just holds an awe of them, like so much respect, but in them, like so much respect, but in them, like so much respect, but in positive way, not like I'm scared when positive way, not like I'm scared when positive way, not like I'm scared when they come in the room, but her comment they come in the room, but her comment they come in the room, but her comment was, "I worry that sometimes I don't say was, "I worry that sometimes I don't say was, "I worry that sometimes I don't say what's on my mind because I hold them in what's on my mind because I hold them in what's on my mind because I hold them in such high regard, I think, oh, they've such high regard, I think, oh, they've such high regard, I think, oh, they've probably got this figured out." What do probably got this figured out." What do probably got this figured out." What do you do if you have that kind of dynamic you do if you have that kind of dynamic you do if you have that kind of dynamic on a team? Any any insights or analysis on a team? Any any insights or analysis on a team? Any any insights or analysis of that? Yeah. of that? Yeah. of that? Yeah. Well, to me, Carrie appoints to um Well, to me, Carrie appoints to um Well, to me, Carrie appoints to um something that's really become something that's really become something that's really become evident to me, and that is making evident to me, and that is making evident to me, and that is making the implicit explicit.

the implicit explicit. the implicit explicit. We have so many unspoken expectations or We have so many unspoken expectations or We have so many unspoken expectations or assumptions, right, in our assumptions, right, in our assumptions, right, in our relationships. relationships. relationships. And the value, the tremendous value, of And the value, the tremendous value, of And the value, the tremendous value, of making those explicit. And you talk making those explicit. And you talk making those explicit. And you talk about trust, imagine if that person said about trust, imagine if that person said about trust, imagine if that person said to to to his or her leader, his or her leader, his or her leader, "I have this idea, the story I'm telling "I have this idea, the story I'm telling "I have this idea, the story I'm telling myself is that myself is that myself is that it's not really okay for me to disagree it's not really okay for me to disagree it's not really okay for me to disagree with you because I don't want you to with you because I don't want you to with you because I don't want you to think less of me because I respect you think less of me because I respect you think less of me because I respect you so much." so much." so much." And you know, opening that conversation And you know, opening that conversation And you know, opening that conversation allows allows allows people to align on expectations, right? people to align on expectations, right? people to align on expectations, right? Um Um Um so That's helpful, really helpful. All so That's helpful, really helpful. All so That's helpful, really helpful. All right, I don't know who wrote this one right, I don't know who wrote this one right, I don't know who wrote this one uh cuz it's co-authored. There's And I uh cuz it's co-authored. There's And I uh cuz it's co-authored. There's And I hope I got this right. There's nothing hope I got this right. There's nothing hope I got this right. There's nothing so unequal as the equal treatment of so unequal as the equal treatment of so unequal as the equal treatment of unequals. unequals. unequals. Can I say that one more time? There's Can I say that one more time? There's Can I say that one more time? There's nothing so unequal as the equal nothing so unequal as the equal nothing so unequal as the equal treatment of unequals. What does that treatment of unequals. What does that treatment of unequals. What does that mean? That really gets to the whole mean? That really gets to the whole mean? That really gets to the whole concept of SLT or situational approach concept of SLT or situational approach concept of SLT or situational approach to effective leadership is it uh to effective leadership is it uh to effective leadership is it uh if you're if you're if you're using the same leadership style with using the same leadership style with using the same leadership style with everybody everybody everybody which going to work which going to work which going to work in some situations not for others and in some situations not for others and in some situations not for others and and just doesn't make any sense. So, and just doesn't make any sense. So, and just doesn't make any sense. So, that's why you have to that's why you have to that's why you have to take a look at who you're dealing with take a look at who you're dealing with take a look at who you're dealing with and and and what do they need from you and what do what do they need from you and what do what do they need from you and what do you need from them?

you need from them? you need from them? So, what do you It it it also applies to So, what do you It it it also applies to So, what do you It it it also applies to the topic of fairness, you know, in the the topic of fairness, you know, in the the topic of fairness, you know, in the world of trust. world of trust. world of trust. You know, um You know, um You know, um I think any of your listeners and I'll I think any of your listeners and I'll I think any of your listeners and I'll ask you to play along with me on this ask you to play along with me on this ask you to play along with me on this Carey. So, I'm going to make I'm going Carey. So, I'm going to make I'm going Carey. So, I'm going to make I'm going to make a to make a to make a I'll say a statement and you fill in the I'll say a statement and you fill in the I'll say a statement and you fill in the end for me, okay? end for me, okay? end for me, okay? I'm being fair because I treat everyone I'm being fair because I treat everyone I'm being fair because I treat everyone the same. same, right? the same. same, right? the same. same, right? Most leaders have said that at some time Most leaders have said that at some time Most leaders have said that at some time or another. That's actually one of the or another. That's actually one of the or another. That's actually one of the most unfair things we can do, right? Is most unfair things we can do, right? Is most unfair things we can do, right? Is to broad brush everyone with the same to broad brush everyone with the same to broad brush everyone with the same treatment treatment treatment uh instead of looking at unique uh instead of looking at unique uh instead of looking at unique circumstances and treating people circumstances and treating people circumstances and treating people equitably and ethically. Two keywords, equitably and ethically. Two keywords, equitably and ethically. Two keywords, right? Equitably and ethically. right? Equitably and ethically. right? Equitably and ethically. And so, that's what we're getting at And so, that's what we're getting at And so, that's what we're getting at with that statement. Um with that statement. Um with that statement. Um it's it's it's we're not sure the source of it. Lots of we're not sure the source of it. Lots of we're not sure the source of it. Lots of places say Aristotle uh said that places say Aristotle uh said that places say Aristotle uh said that statement, others anonymous, that statement, others anonymous, that statement, others anonymous, that brilliant person anonymous who gets some brilliant person anonymous who gets some brilliant person anonymous who gets some Yeah, that's right. Quote him a lot.

Yeah, that's right. Quote him a lot. Yeah, that's right. Quote him a lot. Yeah. Uh but the idea of Yeah. Uh but the idea of Yeah. Uh but the idea of you have to treat people individually, you have to treat people individually, you have to treat people individually, you know, whether it's in leadership you know, whether it's in leadership you know, whether it's in leadership styles like Ken was mentioning, right? styles like Ken was mentioning, right? styles like Ken was mentioning, right? Or in issues of fairness. Or in issues of fairness. Or in issues of fairness. All right, I got one more if you have All right, I got one more if you have All right, I got one more if you have time for it, which is the most important time for it, which is the most important time for it, which is the most important part of leadership is what happens when part of leadership is what happens when part of leadership is what happens when you're not there. Yeah, that's a that's a really important Yeah, that's a that's a really important one because what you really want to get one because what you really want to get one because what you really want to get with your people is the point of as with your people is the point of as with your people is the point of as you're saying is trust you're saying is trust you're saying is trust and a relationship with them and a relationship with them and a relationship with them where when you're not around they they where when you're not around they they where when you're not around they they want to perform just as well as when want to perform just as well as when want to perform just as well as when you're there. you're there. you're there. And so And so And so a lot of times when you really build a lot of times when you really build a lot of times when you really build people up and and make them part of the people up and and make them part of the people up and and make them part of the team and all boy, when you're not around team and all boy, when you're not around team and all boy, when you're not around they really want to be even be better they really want to be even be better they really want to be even be better than they could be if you were watching. than they could be if you were watching. than they could be if you were watching. Mhm.

Mhm. Mhm. How do you get that? Well, you know, I think that's that's Well, you know, I think that's that's the secret sauce of leadership, right? the secret sauce of leadership, right? the secret sauce of leadership, right? It's taking all these It's taking all these It's taking all these common sense principles and you know common sense principles and you know common sense principles and you know our 52 are not our 52 are not our 52 are not the sum of the universe, right? Those the sum of the universe, right? Those the sum of the universe, right? Those are ones that we've chosen to focus on. are ones that we've chosen to focus on. are ones that we've chosen to focus on. Most of the universe though. Yeah, it's Most of the universe though. Yeah, it's Most of the universe though. Yeah, it's most of the Most of the universe, fair most of the Most of the universe, fair most of the Most of the universe, fair enough. Yeah, Ken's right. There there enough. Yeah, Ken's right. There there enough. Yeah, Ken's right. There there might be 54 55 out there. We we gave you might be 54 55 out there. We we gave you might be 54 55 out there. We we gave you 52, you know. Um 52, you know. Um 52, you know. Um but uh but uh but uh uh I think it's the day-to-day uh I think it's the day-to-day uh I think it's the day-to-day behaviors, right? It's the day-to-day behaviors, right? It's the day-to-day behaviors, right? It's the day-to-day behaviors. How do you show up day in and behaviors. How do you show up day in and behaviors. How do you show up day in and day out so that you're creating that day out so that you're creating that day out so that you're creating that environment that people know they're environment that people know they're environment that people know they're trusted, you're using uh a variety of trusted, you're using uh a variety of trusted, you're using uh a variety of leadership styles to develop their leadership styles to develop their leadership styles to develop their competence and commitment so that competence and commitment so that competence and commitment so that they're all peak performers at what they they're all peak performers at what they they're all peak performers at what they do. do. do. And And And uh in a sense in the biggest grandest uh in a sense in the biggest grandest uh in a sense in the biggest grandest sort of metaphysical sense, a leader's sort of metaphysical sense, a leader's sort of metaphysical sense, a leader's job is really to kind of work our way job is really to kind of work our way job is really to kind of work our way out of a job, right? To develop other out of a job, right? To develop other out of a job, right? To develop other leaders, to develop our people leaders, to develop our people leaders, to develop our people to be self-sufficient. And if if leaders to be self-sufficient. And if if leaders to be self-sufficient. And if if leaders can do that, then they're doing the can do that, then they're doing the can do that, then they're doing the right thing.

right thing. right thing. Well, this has been an absolute treat to Well, this has been an absolute treat to Well, this has been an absolute treat to spend time with both of you. Is there a spend time with both of you. Is there a spend time with both of you. Is there a final word from each of you? Anything we final word from each of you? Anything we final word from each of you? Anything we didn't cover that you want to touch on didn't cover that you want to touch on didn't cover that you want to touch on before we wrap up? before we wrap up? before we wrap up? Well, I'd like for you to understand Well, I'd like for you to understand Well, I'd like for you to understand that I'm pretty lucky having a partner that I'm pretty lucky having a partner that I'm pretty lucky having a partner like Randy. like Randy. like Randy. Yeah. It's been a great work with him Yeah. It's been a great work with him Yeah. It's been a great work with him and and that uh and and that uh and and that uh just remember just remember just remember is that none of us is as smart as all of is that none of us is as smart as all of is that none of us is as smart as all of us. us. us. Mhm. Well, and Yeah. Mhm. Well, and Yeah. Mhm. Well, and Yeah. forward and gather people around you forward and gather people around you forward and gather people around you who can bring out the best in you and who can bring out the best in you and who can bring out the best in you and you can bring out the best in them. you can bring out the best in them. you can bring out the best in them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll I'll just say amen to that. I'll I'll just say amen to that. I'll I'll just say amen to that. No no way to top what Ken Blanchard, No no way to top what Ken Blanchard, No no way to top what Ken Blanchard, really one of the most brilliant really one of the most brilliant really one of the most brilliant uh and legendary minds in the world of uh and legendary minds in the world of uh and legendary minds in the world of leadership um leadership um leadership um has just said right there. has just said right there. has just said right there. Wow. Wow. Wow. Well, thank you both so much. I really Well, thank you both so much. I really Well, thank you both so much. I really appreciate it. Latest book is called appreciate it. Latest book is called appreciate it. Latest book is called Simple Truths of Leadership, it's Simple Truths of Leadership, it's Simple Truths of Leadership, it's Playbook. And it's available everywhere Playbook. And it's available everywhere Playbook. And it's available everywhere along with oh, 70 or so other books that along with oh, 70 or so other books that along with oh, 70 or so other books that you've written, Ken. You know, pretty you've written, Ken. You know, pretty you've written, Ken. You know, pretty easy to find. Do you have Actually, do easy to find. Do you have Actually, do easy to find. Do you have Actually, do you have a top two or three? If somebody you have a top two or three? If somebody you have a top two or three? If somebody was to start a Ken Blanchard library, was to start a Ken Blanchard library, was to start a Ken Blanchard library, obviously this one, let's take this one obviously this one, let's take this one obviously this one, let's take this one off the shelf. What are two or other off the shelf. What are two or other off the shelf. What are two or other three books that you've written out of three books that you've written out of three books that you've written out of 70-ish 70-ish 70-ish that you would say, "Start here or that you would say, "Start here or that you would say, "Start here or definitely put this on your shelf."

definitely put this on your shelf." definitely put this on your shelf." Well, the One Minute Manager and the Well, the One Minute Manager and the Well, the One Minute Manager and the Yeah. is that also Raving Fans, which I Yeah. is that also Raving Fans, which I Yeah. is that also Raving Fans, which I did with Sheldon Bowles from Canada. did with Sheldon Bowles from Canada. did with Sheldon Bowles from Canada. It's It's It's really that's really been really that's really been really that's really been a really important a really important a really important uh one and uh uh one and uh uh one and uh uh uh uh Leading at a Higher Level Leading at a Higher Level Leading at a Higher Level is really brings together all the things is really brings together all the things is really brings together all the things that we have and I think this one that we have and I think this one that we have and I think this one Randy, what, 25 co-authors or more? Randy, what, 25 co-authors or more? Randy, what, 25 co-authors or more? Yeah, more. And Yeah, more. And Yeah, more. And uh that uh contributed to to that in our uh that uh contributed to to that in our uh that uh contributed to to that in our content because content because content because uh uh uh I really love to learn from other people I really love to learn from other people I really love to learn from other people and I don't want people and I don't want people and I don't want people to think when I come in the room I think to think when I come in the room I think to think when I come in the room I think all the brains have arrived. all the brains have arrived. all the brains have arrived. And uh so it's it's been been a lot of And uh so it's it's been been a lot of And uh so it's it's been been a lot of fun. fun. fun. Yeah, you know what I'm picking up from Yeah, you know what I'm picking up from Yeah, you know what I'm picking up from this conversation and I knew you had this conversation and I knew you had this conversation and I knew you had co-authors, but it's the power of co-authors, but it's the power of co-authors, but it's the power of collaboration. If you look at most songs collaboration. If you look at most songs collaboration. If you look at most songs these days, it's an artist and then in these days, it's an artist and then in these days, it's an artist and then in brackets featuring some other artist.

brackets featuring some other artist. brackets featuring some other artist. And I think a lot of leaders are still And I think a lot of leaders are still And I think a lot of leaders are still living by a solo playbook. It's like, living by a solo playbook. It's like, living by a solo playbook. It's like, "No, look at me. Look at me. Look at me. "No, look at me. Look at me. Look at me. "No, look at me. Look at me. Look at me. Look at me." But look at what you can Look at me." But look at what you can Look at me." But look at what you can accomplish when you surround yourself accomplish when you surround yourself accomplish when you surround yourself with bright, wonderful people. So, with bright, wonderful people. So, with bright, wonderful people. So, congratulations on all the collaboration congratulations on all the collaboration congratulations on all the collaboration and and and on on a career well led and well lived on on a career well led and well lived on on a career well led and well lived so far. so far. so far. Thank you, Ken. Thank you, Ken. Thank you, Ken. It's been fun and I've really been It's been fun and I've really been It's been fun and I've really been been blessed. Yeah. And so, Randy's one been blessed. Yeah. And so, Randy's one been blessed. Yeah. And so, Randy's one of them that I've of them that I've of them that I've you know, we got a chance to work with you know, we got a chance to work with you know, we got a chance to work with Colleen Barrett who took over president Colleen Barrett who took over president Colleen Barrett who took over president of Southwest when Herb stepped down. I of Southwest when Herb stepped down. I of Southwest when Herb stepped down. I mean, just so many interesting people mean, just so many interesting people mean, just so many interesting people this side of the least. Yeah. this side of the least. Yeah. this side of the least. Yeah. Um website where we can find all things Um website where we can find all things Um website where we can find all things Blanchard these days, where would you Blanchard these days, where would you Blanchard these days, where would you direct people? direct people? direct people? Yeah, you can go to blanchard.com. Yeah, you can go to blanchard.com. Yeah, you can go to blanchard.com. Learn everything that there is to know Learn everything that there is to know Learn everything that there is to know about Blanchard the organization and how about Blanchard the organization and how about Blanchard the organization and how we work with uh our clients to help we work with uh our clients to help we work with uh our clients to help develop their leadership capacity. develop their leadership capacity. develop their leadership capacity. simpletruthsofleadership.com simpletruthsofleadership.com simpletruthsofleadership.com if if uh you want specific info about if if uh you want specific info about if if uh you want specific info about either of our books.

either of our books. either of our books. Uh those are two great places and in all Uh those are two great places and in all Uh those are two great places and in all sincerity, anyone listening, please sincerity, anyone listening, please sincerity, anyone listening, please reach out to Ken and I on LinkedIn. We reach out to Ken and I on LinkedIn. We reach out to Ken and I on LinkedIn. We would love to connect with you. would love to connect with you. would love to connect with you. Um and keep the conversation going. Um and keep the conversation going. Um and keep the conversation going. That's fantastic. I want to thank Thank That's fantastic. I want to thank Thank That's fantastic. I want to thank Thank so much. so much. so much. Well, good good to be with you. Well, good good to be with you. Well, good good to be with you. You're the best. You're a great You're the best. You're a great You're the best. You're a great interviewer. Oh, thanks. Well, I as you interviewer. Oh, thanks. Well, I as you interviewer. Oh, thanks. Well, I as you were joking, I just kept sending you were joking, I just kept sending you were joking, I just kept sending you questions. You're like, all right, how questions. You're like, all right, how questions. You're like, all right, how many more questions are you going to many more questions are you going to many more questions are you going to send? But uh send? But uh send? But uh thank you. It's been a real treat to be thank you. It's been a real treat to be thank you. It's been a real treat to be with you both today. Thank you, Carey.