Why Your Midlife Crisis is Actually a Leadership WOUND in Disguise with Levi Lusko

yeah I mean the shadow side of all of us yeah I mean the shadow side of all of us to some degree wants to be separate and to some degree wants to be separate and to some degree wants to be separate and to feel Superior I'm sure other people to feel Superior I'm sure other people to feel Superior I'm sure other people at times have seen it and it's come at times have seen it and it's come at times have seen it and it's come across as wow there's there's a real um across as wow there's there's a real um across as wow there's there's a real um need which just strips the ministry of need which just strips the ministry of need which just strips the ministry of his power because the moment you set out his power because the moment you set out his power because the moment you set out to impress you cease to be able to bless to impress you cease to be able to bless to impress you cease to be able to bless welcome to the car newoff leadership welcome to the car newoff leadership welcome to the car newoff leadership podcast on YouTube I'm so glad you podcast on YouTube I'm so glad you podcast on YouTube I'm so glad you joined us today we are going to talk joined us today we are going to talk joined us today we are going to talk about midlife crisis Levi was 38 Levi about midlife crisis Levi was 38 Levi about midlife crisis Levi was 38 Levi lusco was 38 when he hit his midlife lusco was 38 when he hit his midlife lusco was 38 when he hit his midlife crisis and he has spent a lot of time crisis and he has spent a lot of time crisis and he has spent a lot of time studying it what causes it uh what studying it what causes it uh what studying it what causes it uh what happens if you don't address it and what happens if you don't address it and what happens if you don't address it and what could your hidden signs actually be that could your hidden signs actually be that could your hidden signs actually be that you're in a quarter life midlife or you you're in a quarter life midlife or you you're in a quarter life midlife or you know whatever 2third life crisis hey know whatever 2third life crisis hey know whatever 2third life crisis hey want to say a shout out as well to want to say a shout out as well to want to say a shout out as well to Tennison Dixon thanks for the comment on Tennison Dixon thanks for the comment on Tennison Dixon thanks for the comment on YouTube a little while ago a few YouTube a little while ago a few YouTube a little while ago a few episodes back we really appreciate you I episodes back we really appreciate you I episodes back we really appreciate you I see you're pastoring in a new city glad see you're pastoring in a new city glad see you're pastoring in a new city glad we come alongside you and support you we come alongside you and support you we come alongside you and support you and now a word from today's partners and and now a word from today's partners and and now a word from today's partners and then to my conversation with Levi lusco then to my conversation with Levi lusco then to my conversation with Levi lusco this episode is brought to you by the this episode is brought to you by the this episode is brought to you by the art of leadership academy hey have you art of leadership academy hey have you art of leadership academy hey have you ever had moments where you feel stuck in ever had moments where you feel stuck in ever had moments where you feel stuck in leadership when you're unsure of the leadership when you're unsure of the leadership when you're unsure of the next step and you're left wondering if next step and you're left wondering if next step and you're left wondering if you're the only one feeling like this you're the only one feeling like this you're the only one feeling like this well listen over the years I've been well listen over the years I've been well listen over the years I've been there so many different times but I had there so many different times but I had there so many different times but I had to lean on mentors coaches and wise to lean on mentors coaches and wise to lean on mentors coaches and wise voices to help me navigate those moments voices to help me navigate those moments voices to help me navigate those moments and that's that's exactly why I created and that's that's exactly why I created and that's that's exactly why I created the art of leadership academy rather

the art of leadership academy rather the art of leadership academy rather than making this all up yourself and than making this all up yourself and than making this all up yourself and trying to do it and not having time trying to do it and not having time trying to do it and not having time think of the art of leadership academy think of the art of leadership academy think of the art of leadership academy as your Lifeline as a church leader a as your Lifeline as a church leader a as your Lifeline as a church leader a place where you can get the guidance the place where you can get the guidance the place where you can get the guidance the tools and the community that you need to tools and the community that you need to tools and the community that you need to keep leading well now inside the academy keep leading well now inside the academy keep leading well now inside the academy you'll get live coaching calls practical you'll get live coaching calls practical you'll get live coaching calls practical courses and access to thousands of courses and access to thousands of courses and access to thousands of church leaders who understand what church leaders who understand what church leaders who understand what you're walking through and instead of you're walking through and instead of you're walking through and instead of getting stuck all you have to do is open getting stuck all you have to do is open getting stuck all you have to do is open the app you know your answer is just a the app you know your answer is just a the app you know your answer is just a click away a message or a video away click away a message or a video away click away a message or a video away plus we've got all of our courses in plus we've got all of our courses in plus we've got all of our courses in there it's accessible at your fingertips there it's accessible at your fingertips there it's accessible at your fingertips 247 you know as content is everywhere 247 you know as content is everywhere 247 you know as content is everywhere Community is more and more rare so why Community is more and more rare so why Community is more and more rare so why not stop spinning in circles next time not stop spinning in circles next time not stop spinning in circles next time you hit a roadblock you can join today you hit a roadblock you can join today you hit a roadblock you can join today at the artof leadership academy.com at the artof leadership academy.com at the artof leadership academy.com again that's the artof leadership again that's the artof leadership again that's the artof leadership academy.com or click the link in the academy.com or click the link in the academy.com or click the link in the description of this episode today's description of this episode today's description of this episode today's episode is brought to you by compassion episode is brought to you by compassion episode is brought to you by compassion you might be familiar with compassion you might be familiar with compassion you might be familiar with compassion International's work to release children International's work to release children International's work to release children from poverty in jesus' name but I bet from poverty in jesus' name but I bet from poverty in jesus' name but I bet you didn't know that partnering with you didn't know that partnering with you didn't know that partnering with compassion helps fulfill your Church's compassion helps fulfill your Church's compassion helps fulfill your Church's call to the Great Commission so as a call to the Great Commission so as a call to the Great Commission so as a pastor I struggled with how are we going pastor I struggled with how are we going pastor I struggled with how are we going to do International missions so we did to do International missions so we did to do International missions so we did this we trusted compassion because they this we trusted compassion because they this we trusted compassion because they Empower local churches around the world Empower local churches around the world Empower local churches around the world to develop and disciple children and are to develop and disciple children and are to develop and disciple children and are a bridge for congregations to share the a bridge for congregations to share the a bridge for congregations to share the love of Jesus Jesus with other people love of Jesus Jesus with other people love of Jesus Jesus with other people they effectively brought mission to our

they effectively brought mission to our they effectively brought mission to our doorstep so if you're interested in doorstep so if you're interested in doorstep so if you're interested in bringing your mission Focus to your bringing your mission Focus to your bringing your mission Focus to your church then watch God use your church to church then watch God use your church to church then watch God use your church to impact the world through compassion so impact the world through compassion so impact the world through compassion so to connect with my friends at Compassion to connect with my friends at Compassion to connect with my friends at Compassion find out more at compassion.com carry find out more at compassion.com carry find out more at compassion.com carry again that is compassion.com again that is compassion.com again that is compassion.com why Levi it's good to hang out again man why Levi it's good to hang out again man why Levi it's good to hang out again man man always a pleasure always yeah so man always a pleasure always yeah so man always a pleasure always yeah so we're we're going to talk personally we're we're going to talk personally we're we're going to talk personally today midlife crisis and a whole lot today midlife crisis and a whole lot today midlife crisis and a whole lot more I want to get into that but I want more I want to get into that but I want more I want to get into that but I want to go back to something you said early to go back to something you said early to go back to something you said early in your new book blessed are the in your new book blessed are the in your new book blessed are the spiraling you said from the time you spiraling you said from the time you spiraling you said from the time you were young you always had a desire for were young you always had a desire for were young you always had a desire for more I think there's a lot of people more I think there's a lot of people more I think there's a lot of people listening right now who could be like listening right now who could be like listening right now who could be like yeah yeah yeah like that definitely is yeah yeah yeah like that definitely is yeah yeah yeah like that definitely is part of my story how did it become part part of my story how did it become part part of my story how did it become part of your story where did this desire for of your story where did this desire for of your story where did this desire for more come from yeah I think it's nature more come from yeah I think it's nature more come from yeah I think it's nature and nurture both sides for me because and nurture both sides for me because and nurture both sides for me because my nature my predisposition is go I wake my nature my predisposition is go I wake my nature my predisposition is go I wake up ready to you know get coffee then up ready to you know get coffee then up ready to you know get coffee then Search and Destroy like I've you know Search and Destroy like I've you know Search and Destroy like I've you know I'm going hard always early and I've I'm going hard always early and I've I'm going hard always early and I've been at early R like I have a I have a been at early R like I have a I have a been at early R like I have a I have a memory of being up at 5:30 a.m. in fifth memory of being up at 5:30 a.m. in fifth memory of being up at 5:30 a.m. in fifth grade uh to watch cartoons and I would grade uh to watch cartoons and I would grade uh to watch cartoons and I would wake up with no alarm 5:30 it's time for wake up with no alarm 5:30 it's time for wake up with no alarm 5:30 it's time for cartoons I'd go out to the TV and it was cartoons I'd go out to the TV and it was cartoons I'd go out to the TV and it was back then when we had like five channels back then when we had like five channels back then when we had like five channels yeah but my favorite was the Cowboys of yeah but my favorite was the Cowboys of yeah but my favorite was the Cowboys of M Mesa which I went back and watched it M Mesa which I went back and watched it M Mesa which I went back and watched it on YouTube recently it has not held up on YouTube recently it has not held up on YouTube recently it has not held up these are actual they're cows but

these are actual they're cows but these are actual they're cows but Cowboys they're cowboys and they they do Cowboys they're cowboys and they they do Cowboys they're cowboys and they they do Cowboy work but they're the cows it's Cowboy work but they're the cows it's Cowboy work but they're the cows it's very strange but I remember sitting very strange but I remember sitting very strange but I remember sitting there like no my family my kid other there like no my family my kid other there like no my family my kid other siblings wouldn't wake up for hours but siblings wouldn't wake up for hours but siblings wouldn't wake up for hours but I'm just there at 5:30 watching cartoons I'm just there at 5:30 watching cartoons I'm just there at 5:30 watching cartoons so I think part of it is my disposition so I think part of it is my disposition so I think part of it is my disposition large plate a lot to do you know I'm large plate a lot to do you know I'm large plate a lot to do you know I'm reaching for the moon but I think it's reaching for the moon but I think it's reaching for the moon but I think it's also um one of five kids firstborn son also um one of five kids firstborn son also um one of five kids firstborn son uh I have one older sister and in our uh I have one older sister and in our uh I have one older sister and in our like I see little kids today that are like I see little kids today that are like I see little kids today that are picky eaters and I laugh because in my picky eaters and I laugh because in my picky eaters and I laugh because in my house if you were a picky eater that house if you were a picky eater that house if you were a picky eater that would just mean you go to bed hungry mom would just mean you go to bed hungry mom would just mean you go to bed hungry mom she made what she made and there was eat she made what she made and there was eat she made what she made and there was eat if you're going to eat seconds was not if you're going to eat seconds was not if you're going to eat seconds was not going to happen and so I think partially going to happen and so I think partially going to happen and so I think partially the nurture aspect of it led to me just the nurture aspect of it led to me just the nurture aspect of it led to me just you know you have if you want attention you know you have if you want attention you know you have if you want attention you got to do something you got to be you got to do something you got to be you got to do something you got to be funny you got you know there's just funny you got you know there's just funny you got you know there's just finite attention going around not not to finite attention going around not not to finite attention going around not not to shame my parents in any way but we were shame my parents in any way but we were shame my parents in any way but we were all trying to get what we could get now all trying to get what we could get now all trying to get what we could get now that's interesting you know I mean that's interesting you know I mean that's interesting you know I mean there's a parallel there I have three there's a parallel there I have three there's a parallel there I have three younger sisters and it felt like at younger sisters and it felt like at younger sisters and it felt like at times we're all competing for attention times we're all competing for attention times we're all competing for attention we were all like in that competition and we were all like in that competition and we were all like in that competition and I've thought about that as I've gotten I've thought about that as I've gotten I've thought about that as I've gotten older and I'm like yeah that definitely older and I'm like yeah that definitely older and I'm like yeah that definitely went into the mix of what made me who I went into the mix of what made me who I went into the mix of what made me who I am today wanting to be behind a am today wanting to be behind a am today wanting to be behind a microphone right if you want to look at microphone right if you want to look at microphone right if you want to look at the motivations and again that's not to the motivations and again that's not to the motivations and again that's not to shame my parents or whatever but just as shame my parents or whatever but just as shame my parents or whatever but just as a kid you don't know I also want to say a kid you don't know I also want to say a kid you don't know I also want to say say congratulations on being uh the say congratulations on being uh the say congratulations on being uh the first person with an actual morning first person with an actual morning first person with an actual morning routine in fifth grade getting up at

routine in fifth grade getting up at routine in fifth grade getting up at 5:30 a.m. to watch cartoons that on a 5:30 a.m. to watch cartoons that on a 5:30 a.m. to watch cartoons that on a Saturday right very impressive very Saturday right very impressive very Saturday right very impressive very impressive see and I I you might call it impressive see and I I you might call it impressive see and I I you might call it a sickness Carrie I don't know okay uh a sickness Carrie I don't know okay uh a sickness Carrie I don't know okay uh what were some other early influences what were some other early influences what were some other early influences that shaped the Levi that you that shaped the Levi that you that shaped the Levi that you become foremost in this would be my dad become foremost in this would be my dad become foremost in this would be my dad of course you know he was and remain of course you know he was and remain of course you know he was and remain just a larger than life human to me um just a larger than life human to me um just a larger than life human to me um he went home to be with Jesus last year he went home to be with Jesus last year he went home to be with Jesus last year at Easter time and this whole book at Easter time and this whole book at Easter time and this whole book journey became even more pronounced and journey became even more pronounced and journey became even more pronounced and more powerful I had written the book in more powerful I had written the book in more powerful I had written the book in in in in 2022 sorry 20123 edit it in 2024 but he 2022 sorry 20123 edit it in 2024 but he 2022 sorry 20123 edit it in 2024 but he went home to be with with the Lord in went home to be with with the Lord in went home to be with with the Lord in 2024 and so even though the midlife 2024 and so even though the midlife 2024 and so even though the midlife crisis book was already in the bag at crisis book was already in the bag at crisis book was already in the bag at that point it it took on a whole new that point it it took on a whole new that point it it took on a whole new meaning and now the you know the book's meaning and now the you know the book's meaning and now the you know the book's dedicated to him I wrote an additional dedicated to him I wrote an additional dedicated to him I wrote an additional last chap after talking about his going last chap after talking about his going last chap after talking about his going to be with Christ and um it was just one to be with Christ and um it was just one to be with Christ and um it was just one more one more spiral around right um but more one more spiral around right um but more one more spiral around right um but as a child I looked at him as you know as a child I looked at him as you know as a child I looked at him as you know like he he walked on water he could do like he he walked on water he could do like he he walked on water he could do no wrong he was just man my dad and like no wrong he was just man my dad and like no wrong he was just man my dad and like all of us a lot of us have have that in all of us a lot of us have have that in all of us a lot of us have have that in our in our minds and you know taking me our in our minds and you know taking me our in our minds and you know taking me fishing taking me camping he would come fishing taking me camping he would come fishing taking me camping he would come in to tuck me in a bed at night and put in to tuck me in a bed at night and put in to tuck me in a bed at night and put the the sheets up high over us and then the the sheets up high over us and then the the sheets up high over us and then he would make a tent out of it and he he would make a tent out of it and he he would make a tent out of it and he would be like camping and the g Le bears would be like camping and the g Le bears would be like camping and the g Le bears are coming and he would tell these are coming and he would tell these are coming and he would tell these stories and um so a lot of who I am and

stories and um so a lot of who I am and stories and um so a lot of who I am and who I became and who I want to become who I became and who I want to become who I became and who I want to become was informed by right or wrong how I was informed by right or wrong how I was informed by right or wrong how I perceived my dad and because of my perceived my dad and because of my perceived my dad and because of my parents marriage breaking down which we parents marriage breaking down which we parents marriage breaking down which we can get into can get into can get into whenever that also created even less whenever that also created even less whenever that also created even less parental love and affection to go around parental love and affection to go around parental love and affection to go around and because I so sided with my dad in and because I so sided with my dad in and because I so sided with my dad in the divorce and wanted the divorce and wanted the divorce and wanted um you know for a season nothing to do um you know for a season nothing to do um you know for a season nothing to do with my with my with my mom partially just because she didn't mom partially just because she didn't mom partially just because she didn't have anything to give now there's five have anything to give now there's five have anything to give now there's five kids and one parent that we're all kids and one parent that we're all kids and one parent that we're all trying to kind of woo and do you see me trying to kind of woo and do you see me trying to kind of woo and do you see me and so I think a lot of my class clown and so I think a lot of my class clown and so I think a lot of my class clown and humor which are all kind of gifts I and humor which are all kind of gifts I and humor which are all kind of gifts I have they were almost a utilization for have they were almost a utilization for have they were almost a utilization for me to to get what I was craving you know me to to get what I was craving you know me to to get what I was craving you know and just the world see me so I think I and just the world see me so I think I and just the world see me so I think I think a lot of that is is is wrapped up think a lot of that is is is wrapped up think a lot of that is is is wrapped up in there but as a literally they tell me in there but as a literally they tell me in there but as a literally they tell me at two I would at two I would at two I would tell people I'm gonna be a pastor like tell people I'm gonna be a pastor like tell people I'm gonna be a pastor like my dad like it was already I my nickname my dad like it was already I my nickname my dad like it was already I my nickname was microchip because he's chip and so was microchip because he's chip and so was microchip because he's chip and so they called me microchip like you're the they called me microchip like you're the they called me microchip like you're the little chip and so I mean and honestly little chip and so I mean and honestly little chip and so I mean and honestly with the name Levi Aaron I had I had with the name Levi Aaron I had I had with the name Levi Aaron I had I had very few options for a career other than very few options for a career other than very few options for a career other than pastoral ministry right that's pastoral ministry right that's pastoral ministry right that's right you know this is pretty vulnerable right you know this is pretty vulnerable right you know this is pretty vulnerable pretty fast but do you see me as I've pretty fast but do you see me as I've pretty fast but do you see me as I've kind of unpacked my story that is part

kind of unpacked my story that is part kind of unpacked my story that is part of it and it's it's the unexamined of it and it's it's the unexamined of it and it's it's the unexamined motives that can drive us until they motives that can drive us until they motives that can drive us until they destroy us I'm convinced and one of my destroy us I'm convinced and one of my destroy us I'm convinced and one of my unexamined motives until easily the last unexamined motives until easily the last unexamined motives until easily the last decade was you know I walked into a decade was you know I walked into a decade was you know I walked into a radio station at 16 it's like hire me radio station at 16 it's like hire me radio station at 16 it's like hire me why did I want to be behind the why did I want to be behind the why did I want to be behind the microphone I don't know uh then I wanted microphone I don't know uh then I wanted microphone I don't know uh then I wanted to be in law in court I wanted to win to be in law in court I wanted to win to be in law in court I wanted to win all the time then I went into Ministry all the time then I went into Ministry all the time then I went into Ministry you know preach fast growing church God you know preach fast growing church God you know preach fast growing church God used it I'm not like and I wasn't there used it I'm not like and I wasn't there used it I'm not like and I wasn't there you know if it was it was a career you know if it was it was a career you know if it was it was a career choice it was career suicide basically choice it was career suicide basically choice it was career suicide basically for me to go into Ministry after law but for me to go into Ministry after law but for me to go into Ministry after law but like there was an unconscious like there was an unconscious like there was an unconscious subconscious like do you see me do you subconscious like do you see me do you subconscious like do you see me do you see me and you know just talking see me and you know just talking see me and you know just talking candidly with you Levi we've known each candidly with you Levi we've known each candidly with you Levi we've known each other a number of other a number of other a number of years sometimes I pick that up in years sometimes I pick that up in years sometimes I pick that up in pastors and it's undiagnosed you know pastors and it's undiagnosed you know pastors and it's undiagnosed you know it's kind of like do you not see how it's kind of like do you not see how it's kind of like do you not see how needy you seem from the platform and I'm needy you seem from the platform and I'm needy you seem from the platform and I'm sure at times I seem needy do you want sure at times I seem needy do you want sure at times I seem needy do you want to talk just honestly about what kind of to talk just honestly about what kind of to talk just honestly about what kind of factor that has been in your life that factor that has been in your life that factor that has been in your life that drive to be noticed the the drive to drive to be noticed the the drive to drive to be noticed the the drive to attention the drive to like do you see attention the drive to like do you see attention the drive to like do you see me do You See Me Now do you see me now me do You See Me Now do you see me now me do You See Me Now do you see me now yeah for sure yeah I mean the shadow yeah for sure yeah I mean the shadow yeah for sure yeah I mean the shadow side of all of us to some degree wants side of all of us to some degree wants side of all of us to some degree wants to be separate and to feel Superior and to be separate and to feel Superior and to be separate and to feel Superior and so we can all look to certain things to so we can all look to certain things to so we can all look to certain things to kind of give us those Drive even without kind of give us those Drive even without kind of give us those Drive even without even noticing we're doing it and and I even noticing we're doing it and and I even noticing we're doing it and and I do think it's funny because it's it's an

do think it's funny because it's it's an do think it's funny because it's it's an unguarded strength that becomes the unguarded strength that becomes the unguarded strength that becomes the Double weakness so it's often not the Double weakness so it's often not the Double weakness so it's often not the bad things but the good things that then bad things but the good things that then bad things but the good things that then were were they become exaggerated were were they become exaggerated were were they become exaggerated caricatures caricatures caricatures almost so I think I do have whatever almost so I think I do have whatever almost so I think I do have whatever gifts and talents and predisposition gifts and talents and predisposition gifts and talents and predisposition like you do to microphone work to and like you do to microphone work to and like you do to microphone work to and also my dad owned an operated radio also my dad owned an operated radio also my dad owned an operated radio station so I grew up in radio booths station so I grew up in radio booths station so I grew up in radio booths like so I feel so much more comfortable like so I feel so much more comfortable like so I feel so much more comfortable in in a booth in a radio station in in a booth in a radio station in in a booth in a radio station like some of my most Vivid memories or like some of my most Vivid memories or like some of my most Vivid memories or him frantically reaching for his car him frantically reaching for his car him frantically reaching for his car phone to call the Station operator if he phone to call the Station operator if he phone to call the Station operator if he turned onto one of his stations and turned onto one of his stations and turned onto one of his stations and there was dead air that was the Cardinal there was dead air that was the Cardinal there was dead air that was the Cardinal C radio man yeah you don't have dead air C radio man yeah you don't have dead air C radio man yeah you don't have dead air you don't have dead air yeah and so I you don't have dead air yeah and so I you don't have dead air yeah and so I think you know the that that that think you know the that that that think you know the that that that environment I was in gave that so all my environment I was in gave that so all my environment I was in gave that so all my siblings all to some degree or another siblings all to some degree or another siblings all to some degree or another except for my little sister have all except for my little sister have all except for my little sister have all ended up in kind of like a public eye ended up in kind of like a public eye ended up in kind of like a public eye which is because what we were raised in which is because what we were raised in which is because what we were raised in steeped in there's the the giftedness steeped in there's the the giftedness steeped in there's the the giftedness but then I think you you combine that but then I think you you combine that but then I think you you combine that with wounds and so all of a sudden it's with wounds and so all of a sudden it's with wounds and so all of a sudden it's like okay I see how I can get a laugh I like okay I see how I can get a laugh I like okay I see how I can get a laugh I see how I can get attention so now my see how I can get attention so now my see how I can get attention so now my need to to feel separate to feel need to to feel separate to feel need to to feel separate to feel Superior I can look to these things in Superior I can look to these things in Superior I can look to these things in an unhealthy way and all of a sudden my an unhealthy way and all of a sudden my an unhealthy way and all of a sudden my shadow gets twice as long because I'm shadow gets twice as long because I'm shadow gets twice as long because I'm not aware of it and my back's to the Sun not aware of it and my back's to the Sun not aware of it and my back's to the Sun and so now there it is off into the and so now there it is off into the and so now there it is off into the distance and you know I'm sure other distance and you know I'm sure other distance and you know I'm sure other people at times have seen it and it's people at times have seen it and it's people at times have seen it and it's come across as wow there's there's a come across as wow there's there's a come across as wow there's there's a real um need which just strips the real um need which just strips the real um need which just strips the ministry of his power because the moment ministry of his power because the moment ministry of his power because the moment you set out to impress you cease to be

you set out to impress you cease to be you set out to impress you cease to be able to able to able to bless because you're now looking to bless because you're now looking to bless because you're now looking to those you're seeking to impart to to to those you're seeking to impart to to to those you're seeking to impart to to to take from and so in that exchange that's take from and so in that exchange that's take from and so in that exchange that's why Jesus said I don't need anything why Jesus said I don't need anything why Jesus said I don't need anything from you you know i' I've I've come out from you you know i' I've I've come out from you you know i' I've I've come out of a full place to bless you right the of a full place to bless you right the of a full place to bless you right the brother's like hey go to Jerusalem and brother's like hey go to Jerusalem and brother's like hey go to Jerusalem and show off and he's like if I if I did it show off and he's like if I if I did it show off and he's like if I if I did it to do that if I jumped off the temple to to do that if I jumped off the temple to to do that if I jumped off the temple to see to get the crowd's attention I would see to get the crowd's attention I would see to get the crowd's attention I would be looking for validation and external be looking for validation and external be looking for validation and external validation is is not the source of it's validation is is not the source of it's validation is is not the source of it's the father's affection and out of a full the father's affection and out of a full the father's affection and out of a full place I now can impart to you and so I place I now can impart to you and so I place I now can impart to you and so I think I think for a long time I was think I think for a long time I was think I think for a long time I was unaware of of of wounds I was unaware of unaware of of of wounds I was unaware of unaware of of of wounds I was unaware of of needs and so there was a sense in of needs and so there was a sense in of needs and so there was a sense in which I was imposing my need on people I which I was imposing my need on people I which I was imposing my need on people I was there to serve and and and pulling was there to serve and and and pulling was there to serve and and and pulling from and it you know caught up with me from and it you know caught up with me from and it you know caught up with me yeah I mean thank you for being open to yeah I mean thank you for being open to yeah I mean thank you for being open to that conversation because I look back on that conversation because I look back on that conversation because I look back on my my younger self and you know pre-b my my younger self and you know pre-b my my younger self and you know pre-b burnout and I wasn't aware of it at the burnout and I wasn't aware of it at the burnout and I wasn't aware of it at the time but like there was a real drive and time but like there was a real drive and time but like there was a real drive and church growth was like a drug do you church growth was like a drug do you church growth was like a drug do you know what I mean just kind of like a hit know what I mean just kind of like a hit know what I mean just kind of like a hit it was like definitely dopamine and it it was like definitely dopamine and it it was like definitely dopamine and it probably felt uh bigger than that when probably felt uh bigger than that when probably felt uh bigger than that when you look at you starting out in your 20s you look at you starting out in your 20s you look at you starting out in your 20s and 30s and 30s and 30s how did that impact your leadership how did that impact your leadership how did that impact your leadership positively or positively or positively or negatively mixed right because like I negatively mixed right because like I negatively mixed right because like I said you know the big the big Revelation

said you know the big the big Revelation said you know the big the big Revelation is a wounds a is a wounds a is a wounds a wounds a wound that's concealed can wounds a wound that's concealed can wounds a wound that's concealed can never be healed yeah so you don't know never be healed yeah so you don't know never be healed yeah so you don't know it's there so I didn't know how much and it's there so I didn't know how much and it's there so I didn't know how much and it's cliche but I was carrying and it's cliche but I was carrying and it's cliche but I was carrying and dragging along with me from childhood dragging along with me from childhood dragging along with me from childhood and so being unaware of it it was you and so being unaware of it it was you and so being unaware of it it was you know was it what's that Carl Young quote know was it what's that Carl Young quote know was it what's that Carl Young quote until the subconscious becomes conscious until the subconscious becomes conscious until the subconscious becomes conscious it will run your life subconsciously so it will run your life subconsciously so it will run your life subconsciously so it's almost almost like you don't even it's almost almost like you don't even it's almost almost like you don't even know it's happening so true in my 20s know it's happening so true in my 20s know it's happening so true in my 20s and my 30s I would say I was not aware and my 30s I would say I was not aware and my 30s I would say I was not aware of the extent to which there was of the extent to which there was of the extent to which there was rattling around wounds gaping wounds rattling around wounds gaping wounds rattling around wounds gaping wounds that were there Nixon really was the the that were there Nixon really was the the that were there Nixon really was the the what is it the the lingchi death by a what is it the the lingchi death by a what is it the the lingchi death by a thousand paper cuts that method of thousand paper cuts that method of thousand paper cuts that method of Chinese execution where they would just Chinese execution where they would just Chinese execution where they would just put one cut one cut and eventually it's put one cut one cut and eventually it's put one cut one cut and eventually it's leth none of them are I did not know leth none of them are I did not know leth none of them are I did not know that was a real thing I thought that was that was a real thing I thought that was that was a real thing I thought that was an expression wow oh no that's a real an expression wow oh no that's a real an expression wow oh no that's a real thing man link I think it is um we'll thing man link I think it is um we'll thing man link I think it is um we'll have to fact check that for the show have to fact check that for the show have to fact check that for the show notes but I believe that's what it's notes but I believe that's what it's notes but I believe that's what it's called fact check okay wow death by a called fact check okay wow death by a called fact check okay wow death by a thousand paper cuts yeah keep going by thousand paper cuts yeah keep going by thousand paper cuts yeah keep going by was real for me they were all there and was real for me they were all there and was real for me they were all there and and yet because I didn't know they were and yet because I didn't know they were and yet because I didn't know they were there my my calling was real Carrie my there my my calling was real Carrie my there my my calling was real Carrie my salvation was real when the Lord said salvation was real when the Lord said salvation was real when the Lord said saved at saved at saved at 14 whom shall I send who shall go for us 14 whom shall I send who shall go for us 14 whom shall I send who shall go for us I raised my hand in a pure way and said I raised my hand in a pure way and said I raised my hand in a pure way and said I want to do anything what God did I want to do anything what God did I want to do anything what God did because I was suicidal I was um you know because I was suicidal I was um you know because I was suicidal I was um you know looking I was do doing drugs I was uh in looking I was do doing drugs I was uh in looking I was do doing drugs I was uh in 13 years old addicted to 13 years old addicted to 13 years old addicted to pornography empty smoking cigarettes pornography empty smoking cigarettes pornography empty smoking cigarettes with asthma like that makes no like with asthma like that makes no like with asthma like that makes no like puffer in one hand a menthol cigarette

puffer in one hand a menthol cigarette puffer in one hand a menthol cigarette in the other outside like so so in the other outside like so so in the other outside like so so searching and when I came to know Christ searching and when I came to know Christ searching and when I came to know Christ at at my summer camp of my freshman year at at my summer camp of my freshman year at at my summer camp of my freshman year in high school my eyes were open to the in high school my eyes were open to the in high school my eyes were open to the warmth and the love of Christ outside of warmth and the love of Christ outside of warmth and the love of Christ outside of religion and that salvation was real and religion and that salvation was real and religion and that salvation was real and my raising my hand like I'll do anything my raising my hand like I'll do anything my raising my hand like I'll do anything to tell people about the Jesus who to tell people about the Jesus who to tell people about the Jesus who brought hope to me that was real so when brought hope to me that was real so when brought hope to me that was real so when God called us at the age of 22 and 23 God called us at the age of 22 and 23 God called us at the age of 22 and 23 Jenny and I to start fresh life which is Jenny and I to start fresh life which is Jenny and I to start fresh life which is our I mean so we're we're two years our I mean so we're we're two years our I mean so we're we're two years married have a one-year-old child we're married have a one-year-old child we're married have a one-year-old child we're pregnant with a second but don't know pregnant with a second but don't know pregnant with a second but don't know about it and now we're senior pastors of about it and now we're senior pastors of about it and now we're senior pastors of a local church that begins a local church that begins a local church that begins exploding and I'm unaware of of wounds exploding and I'm unaware of of wounds exploding and I'm unaware of of wounds that are like a ticking Time Bomb so that are like a ticking Time Bomb so that are like a ticking Time Bomb so what instantly to be thrust into what instantly to be thrust into what instantly to be thrust into notoriety which is the way I will refer notoriety which is the way I will refer notoriety which is the way I will refer to what happened to what happened to what happened next the conditions were ripe like a next the conditions were ripe like a next the conditions were ripe like a perfect storm system for me then to perfect storm system for me then to perfect storm system for me then to utilize whatever platform God began to utilize whatever platform God began to utilize whatever platform God began to open up for us in a healthy and open up for us in a healthy and open up for us in a healthy and unhealthy way yeah yeah I mean my unhealthy way yeah yeah I mean my unhealthy way yeah yeah I mean my undiagnosed stuff uh definitely had an undiagnosed stuff uh definitely had an undiagnosed stuff uh definitely had an impact on our marriage Tony would be impact on our marriage Tony would be impact on our marriage Tony would be like what is driving you like what is like what is driving you like what is like what is driving you like what is going on on why are you never satisfied going on on why are you never satisfied going on on why are you never satisfied which is still honestly transparently a which is still honestly transparently a which is still honestly transparently a little bit of my personality today Levi little bit of my personality today Levi little bit of my personality today Levi when you look at your marriage with when you look at your marriage with when you look at your marriage with Jenny and I want to go there in more Jenny and I want to go there in more Jenny and I want to go there in more detail down the road but in those early detail down the road but in those early detail down the road but in those early days to what extent did that

days to what extent did that days to what extent did that become a difficult aspect that the two become a difficult aspect that the two become a difficult aspect that the two of you had to navigate or did it maybe of you had to navigate or did it maybe of you had to navigate or did it maybe it didn't impact your marriage oh yeah I it didn't impact your marriage oh yeah I it didn't impact your marriage oh yeah I mean I as you said that I have a vivid mean I as you said that I have a vivid mean I as you said that I have a vivid memory of of of a moment in now the now memory of of of a moment in now the now memory of of of a moment in now the now defunct it doesn't exist anymore e defunct it doesn't exist anymore e defunct it doesn't exist anymore e terminal of Salt Lake City International terminal of Salt Lake City International terminal of Salt Lake City International Airport which at that point was an Airport which at that point was an Airport which at that point was an outdoor quanset Hut style thing that outdoor quanset Hut style thing that outdoor quanset Hut style thing that you're in freezing weather with heaters you're in freezing weather with heaters you're in freezing weather with heaters over you but you're you're going down to over you but you're you're going down to over you but you're you're going down to all the e was just like if you had to all the e was just like if you had to all the e was just like if you had to Flat of e you're always like Oh e I hate Flat of e you're always like Oh e I hate Flat of e you're always like Oh e I hate go yeah it was like EG we we called it go yeah it was like EG we we called it go yeah it was like EG we we called it Egypt we had a different way we would Egypt we had a different way we would Egypt we had a different way we would say it colloquially but we would call it say it colloquially but we would call it say it colloquially but we would call it Egypt we'll sh we'll for the show and uh Egypt we'll sh we'll for the show and uh Egypt we'll sh we'll for the show and uh e and our kis Bell flights were almost e and our kis Bell flights were almost e and our kis Bell flights were almost always at the the last gate of e you always at the the last gate of e you always at the the last gate of e you know but I I have these such vivid know but I I have these such vivid know but I I have these such vivid memories of me 50 feet ahead of Jenny memories of me 50 feet ahead of Jenny memories of me 50 feet ahead of Jenny looking over why are you always so looking over why are you always so looking over why are you always so behind gosh why are you always 50 feet behind gosh why are you always 50 feet behind gosh why are you always 50 feet behind me and and then the revelation of behind me and and then the revelation of behind me and and then the revelation of course being you're 50 feet ahead of her course being you're 50 feet ahead of her course being you're 50 feet ahead of her she's not 50 feet behind you Jenny and she's not 50 feet behind you Jenny and she's not 50 feet behind you Jenny and Tony have to do a therapy vacation one Tony have to do a therapy vacation one Tony have to do a therapy vacation one day oh my gosh Tony you can't listen to day oh my gosh Tony you can't listen to day oh my gosh Tony you can't listen to this episode by the way right whoa and I this episode by the way right whoa and I this episode by the way right whoa and I think the conviction of that's a that's think the conviction of that's a that's think the conviction of that's a that's a moment that encaps has encapsulated a moment that encaps has encapsulated a moment that encaps has encapsulated our 21 years of marriage together as our 21 years of marriage together as our 21 years of marriage together as people are listening into this like 20 people are listening into this like 20 people are listening into this like 20 years plus of of of me with the pedal years plus of of of me with the pedal years plus of of of me with the pedal down and her not being break on her just down and her not being break on her just down and her not being break on her just being at a normal being at a normal being at a normal speed yes yes and us being the weirdos speed yes yes and us being the weirdos speed yes yes and us being the weirdos us being abnormal yeah and I and and us being abnormal yeah and I and and us being abnormal yeah and I and and that's mixed and unmixed that's healthy

that's mixed and unmixed that's healthy that's mixed and unmixed that's healthy and that's sorry that's healthy and and that's sorry that's healthy and and that's sorry that's healthy and unhealthy there's there part of it it's unhealthy there's there part of it it's unhealthy there's there part of it it's just that's that's God gave those gifts just that's that's God gave those gifts just that's that's God gave those gifts and that's how some of this has happened and that's how some of this has happened and that's how some of this has happened I don't think anything would get started I don't think anything would get started I don't think anything would get started or built or begun if there was if there or built or begun if there was if there or built or begun if there was if there wasn't some agitators on this Earth but wasn't some agitators on this Earth but wasn't some agitators on this Earth but I also do think M take that now and add I also do think M take that now and add I also do think M take that now and add in unhealthy and it's a cocktail for a in unhealthy and it's a cocktail for a in unhealthy and it's a cocktail for a molotof right yeah no I think I think molotof right yeah no I think I think molotof right yeah no I think I think you're absolutely right and that is you you're absolutely right and that is you you're absolutely right and that is you know that's a question for heaven too know that's a question for heaven too know that's a question for heaven too because those are gifts like I felt because those are gifts like I felt because those are gifts like I felt called to Ministry you felt called to called to Ministry you felt called to called to Ministry you felt called to Ministry I love my wife and I drive her Ministry I love my wife and I drive her Ministry I love my wife and I drive her crazy right and you know these things crazy right and you know these things crazy right and you know these things that God is using are also the things that God is using are also the things that God is using are also the things that have a shadow side and could that have a shadow side and could that have a shadow side and could destroy us I I want to um wind back the destroy us I I want to um wind back the destroy us I I want to um wind back the clock a little bit you mentioned your clock a little bit you mentioned your clock a little bit you mentioned your parents divorce can you walk us through parents divorce can you walk us through parents divorce can you walk us through the impact that that had on you the impact that that had on you the impact that that had on you formatively now I can um sure if you formatively now I can um sure if you formatively now I can um sure if you would have met me at would have met me at would have met me at 35 or 25 and said hey your parents got 35 or 25 and said hey your parents got 35 or 25 and said hey your parents got divorced when you were young what impact divorced when you were young what impact divorced when you were young what impact did that have on you I would have did that have on you I would have did that have on you I would have literally been I could I could have literally been I could I could have literally been I could I could have passed a polygraph test and said oh it passed a polygraph test and said oh it passed a polygraph test and said oh it was hard but God was there and little or was hard but God was there and little or was hard but God was there and little or no impact on my life and I see now from no impact on my life and I see now from no impact on my life and I see now from 42 how wrong that statement would be 42 how wrong that statement would be 42 how wrong that statement would be because at the age of 10 and a half 11 because at the age of 10 and a half 11 because at the age of 10 and a half 11 my parents marriage began to

my parents marriage began to my parents marriage began to erode it didn't fully finally end in erode it didn't fully finally end in erode it didn't fully finally end in divorce until I was a senior in high divorce until I was a senior in high divorce until I was a senior in high school where as a senior I'm sitting on school where as a senior I'm sitting on school where as a senior I'm sitting on the couch the rest of my dad and my the couch the rest of my dad and my the couch the rest of my dad and my siblings left town to give space for my siblings left town to give space for my siblings left town to give space for my mom to pack up and leave and so I'm mom to pack up and leave and so I'm mom to pack up and leave and so I'm sitting there I got home from Chili's I sitting there I got home from Chili's I sitting there I got home from Chili's I was working a job I said and I watched was working a job I said and I watched was working a job I said and I watched movers All Around Me packing up movers All Around Me packing up movers All Around Me packing up dressers uh kitchen table and I'm like dressers uh kitchen table and I'm like dressers uh kitchen table and I'm like watching this unfold in disbelief as my watching this unfold in disbelief as my watching this unfold in disbelief as my mom's moving out to leave and and what mom's moving out to leave and and what mom's moving out to leave and and what came in between fifth grade and 12th came in between fifth grade and 12th came in between fifth grade and 12th grade was those years those eight nine grade was those years those eight nine grade was those years those eight nine years of my mom being physically present years of my mom being physically present years of my mom being physically present but emotionally but emotionally but emotionally absent because of something that had absent because of something that had absent because of something that had happened in our family some abuse that happened in our family some abuse that happened in our family some abuse that had happened had happened had happened non-related it exposed the Fishers in my non-related it exposed the Fishers in my non-related it exposed the Fishers in my parents marriage the cracks that were parents marriage the cracks that were parents marriage the cracks that were already there the heat exploded them she already there the heat exploded them she already there the heat exploded them she cracked it was as though lightning cracked it was as though lightning cracked it was as though lightning struck her so she wasn't bad Carrie she struck her so she wasn't bad Carrie she struck her so she wasn't bad Carrie she was was was broken and as a result of that it forced broken and as a result of that it forced broken and as a result of that it forced her into a place where she she's had her into a place where she she's had her into a place where she she's had nothing to give herself or any of us and nothing to give herself or any of us and nothing to give herself or any of us and that eventually that limped on until it that eventually that limped on until it that eventually that limped on until it finally was go was broken and it had finally was go was broken and it had finally was go was broken and it had profound impacts on me that I didn't profound impacts on me that I didn't profound impacts on me that I didn't understand or see at the time partially understand or see at the time partially understand or see at the time partially because I built up such armor yeah yeah

because I built up such armor yeah yeah because I built up such armor yeah yeah and such a sense of you've hurt me in and such a sense of you've hurt me in and such a sense of you've hurt me in such a deep way that I can't even such a deep way that I can't even such a deep way that I can't even articulate that I then I'm going to articulate that I then I'm going to articulate that I then I'm going to choose to describe you as completely choose to describe you as completely choose to describe you as completely wrong and and and thus I don't need you wrong and and and thus I don't need you wrong and and and thus I don't need you and I don't want you and I'm now going and I don't want you and I'm now going and I don't want you and I'm now going to shift all my parental need for to shift all my parental need for to shift all my parental need for affirmation and and then ramp it to a affirmation and and then ramp it to a affirmation and and then ramp it to a hundred to my dad to more than he could hundred to my dad to more than he could hundred to my dad to more than he could give right and he's perfect and sees no give right and he's perfect and sees no give right and he's perfect and sees no wrong and until he did do wrong which wrong and until he did do wrong which wrong and until he did do wrong which because he's a human yeah and then all because he's a human yeah and then all because he's a human yeah and then all of a sudden I kind of wrote my dad off of a sudden I kind of wrote my dad off of a sudden I kind of wrote my dad off and it was the youth pastor who's and it was the youth pastor who's and it was the youth pastor who's perfect and after my youth pastor would perfect and after my youth pastor would perfect and after my youth pastor would you know hurt me or call me out or you you know hurt me or call me out or you you know hurt me or call me out or you know it it I pretty much went about two know it it I pretty much went about two know it it I pretty much went about two or three years where a new mom figure a or three years where a new mom figure a or three years where a new mom figure a mom mom mom replacement uh would would be introduced replacement uh would would be introduced replacement uh would would be introduced uh all the way till at 38 it kind of uh all the way till at 38 it kind of uh all the way till at 38 it kind of dawned on me in therapy what this dawned on me in therapy what this dawned on me in therapy what this pattern was in my life that had operated pattern was in my life that had operated pattern was in my life that had operated behind the scenes without me realizing behind the scenes without me realizing behind the scenes without me realizing it that had really weirdly started with it that had really weirdly started with it that had really weirdly started with pornography yeah you say you replaced pornography yeah you say you replaced pornography yeah you say you replaced your mom with pornography what tell me your mom with pornography what tell me your mom with pornography what tell me about that yeah you you can imagine my about that yeah you you can imagine my about that yeah you you can imagine my publisher when I told them I wanted to publisher when I told them I wanted to publisher when I told them I wanted to write a chapter called I replace my mom write a chapter called I replace my mom write a chapter called I replace my mom with porn they were like well with porn they were like well with porn they were like well um uh we'll talk about that um yes it's um uh we'll talk about that um yes it's um uh we'll talk about that um yes it's like when I told them when I really like when I told them when I really like when I told them when I really swipe right I wanted in font you know 25 swipe right I wanted in font you know 25 swipe right I wanted in font you know 25 on the back of the book God wants you to on the back of the book God wants you to on the back of the book God wants you to have amazing sex like I wanted that to have amazing sex like I wanted that to have amazing sex like I wanted that to be right there and we we we we maybe be right there and we we we we maybe be right there and we we we we maybe exchanged 80 emails before I got my way

exchanged 80 emails before I got my way exchanged 80 emails before I got my way um but yeah my mom in fifth grade that um but yeah my mom in fifth grade that um but yeah my mom in fifth grade that happens and in sixth grade I got crazy happens and in sixth grade I got crazy happens and in sixth grade I got crazy addicted to pornography my nextdoor addicted to pornography my nextdoor addicted to pornography my nextdoor neighbor said hey I found a box in my neighbor said hey I found a box in my neighbor said hey I found a box in my garage you got to see it so I'm like garage you got to see it so I'm like garage you got to see it so I'm like well I don't know what box has in your well I don't know what box has in your well I don't know what box has in your garage so I come over and it's a stack garage so I come over and it's a stack garage so I come over and it's a stack of Playboy magazines This Tall wow and of Playboy magazines This Tall wow and of Playboy magazines This Tall wow and he's like I said can I have some of he's like I said can I have some of he's like I said can I have some of these he's like you for sure can so I these he's like you for sure can so I these he's like you for sure can so I take three of them home and I've never take three of them home and I've never take three of them home and I've never seen a naked woman before and it was seen a naked woman before and it was seen a naked woman before and it was like heroin of course I I knew the like heroin of course I I knew the like heroin of course I I knew the moment I saw this is wrong and I didn't moment I saw this is wrong and I didn't moment I saw this is wrong and I didn't know how to process it because I don't know how to process it because I don't know how to process it because I don't want to disappoint my dad and I didn't want to disappoint my dad and I didn't want to disappoint my dad and I didn't talk to my mom much in that season and talk to my mom much in that season and talk to my mom much in that season and so I just I I got a plastic bag buried so I just I I got a plastic bag buried so I just I I got a plastic bag buried it in the backyard and would dig it up it in the backyard and would dig it up it in the backyard and would dig it up every you know twice a week wow and that every you know twice a week wow and that every you know twice a week wow and that began a multiple year until I was about began a multiple year until I was about began a multiple year until I was about 18 19 on again off again addiction to 18 19 on again off again addiction to 18 19 on again off again addiction to pornography you know that I I carried to pornography you know that I I carried to pornography you know that I I carried to Bible College you know I was like in Bible College you know I was like in Bible College you know I was like in Bible College I'm on AOL internet like Bible College I'm on AOL internet like Bible College I'm on AOL internet like studying Bible but then like hating that studying Bible but then like hating that studying Bible but then like hating that I'm still falling back into you know I'm still falling back into you know I'm still falling back into you know dial up you know to slowly download an dial up you know to slowly download an dial up you know to slowly download an image of a of that you know like that I image of a of that you know like that I image of a of that you know like that I needed so I'm in therapy at 38 midst of needed so I'm in therapy at 38 midst of needed so I'm in therapy at 38 midst of my midlife my midlife my midlife crisis or so I call it right because I I crisis or so I call it right because I I crisis or so I call it right because I I could die tomorrow it turns out my could die tomorrow it turns out my could die tomorrow it turns out my midlife was 20 but you know we'll use midlife was 20 but you know we'll use midlife was 20 but you know we'll use the the the language um my counselor goes so when language um my counselor goes so when language um my counselor goes so when did this pornography addiction begin and did this pornography addiction begin and did this pornography addiction begin and I go oh was right the year after my mom I go oh was right the year after my mom I go oh was right the year after my mom left but that had nothing to do with it

left but that had nothing to do with it left but that had nothing to do with it and he looked he just raised Carrie he and he looked he just raised Carrie he and he looked he just raised Carrie he raised his eyebrows in the way that like raised his eyebrows in the way that like raised his eyebrows in the way that like psychologist tend to that made me go psychologist tend to that made me go psychologist tend to that made me go wait you think there's a connection he's wait you think there's a connection he's wait you think there's a connection he's like so your mom the most important like so your mom the most important like so your mom the most important woman in the world whose affection tank woman in the world whose affection tank woman in the world whose affection tank has now has the spigot got turned off has now has the spigot got turned off has now has the spigot got turned off and at the same time you began looking and at the same time you began looking and at the same time you began looking to this new source of warmth affection to this new source of warmth affection to this new source of warmth affection from women no less and you don't think from women no less and you don't think from women no less and you don't think there's a connection I was like oh man there's a connection I was like oh man there's a connection I was like oh man I'm so angry right now wow wow because I'm so angry right now wow wow because I'm so angry right now wow wow because it was like all of a sudden I saw the it was like all of a sudden I saw the it was like all of a sudden I saw the Matrix around me of how I was Matrix around me of how I was Matrix around me of how I was shaped whoa whoa um when you think about your parents um when you think about your parents divorce cuz there's so many shaping divorce cuz there's so many shaping divorce cuz there's so many shaping things right and I so appreciate it when things right and I so appreciate it when things right and I so appreciate it when you know leaders we love respect and you know leaders we love respect and you know leaders we love respect and admire tell the whole story because the admire tell the whole story because the admire tell the whole story because the tens of thousands of leaders listening tens of thousands of leaders listening tens of thousands of leaders listening to this hear themselves in the story I to this hear themselves in the story I to this hear themselves in the story I hear myself in a lot of your hear myself in a lot of your hear myself in a lot of your story what were some other shaping story what were some other shaping story what were some other shaping factors for you in your formative years factors for you in your formative years factors for you in your formative years that became the Levi that is leading that became the Levi that is leading that became the Levi that is leading Fresh Life Church and that God is using Fresh Life Church and that God is using Fresh Life Church and that God is using yeah in a positive way you know my dad yeah in a positive way you know my dad yeah in a positive way you know my dad was bivocational yeah he would own and was bivocational yeah he would own and was bivocational yeah he would own and operate these radio stations for work he operate these radio stations for work he operate these radio stations for work he also worked for Fox in Colorado where he also worked for Fox in Colorado where he also worked for Fox in Colorado where he was the general sales manager of uh a was the general sales manager of uh a was the general sales manager of uh a fox affiliate fox affiliate fox affiliate station and I would get dropped off

station and I would get dropped off station and I would get dropped off after school at the radio station or the after school at the radio station or the after school at the radio station or the TV network and so like being around this TV network and so like being around this TV network and so like being around this equipment and I got to actually be in a equipment and I got to actually be in a equipment and I got to actually be in a Nintendo commercial uh when I was uh Nintendo commercial uh when I was uh Nintendo commercial uh when I was uh like six you know my sister and I I had like six you know my sister and I I had like six you know my sister and I I had one line I turned to the camera after one line I turned to the camera after one line I turned to the camera after playing Super Mario Brothers one and I playing Super Mario Brothers one and I playing Super Mario Brothers one and I said yeah kids save the princess you said yeah kids save the princess you said yeah kids save the princess you know was local commercial for some big know was local commercial for some big know was local commercial for some big contest but they need a kid so my sister contest but they need a kid so my sister contest but they need a kid so my sister and I did it it was great um and the and I did it it was great um and the and I did it it was great um and the attention I got from that was like f i attention I got from that was like f i attention I got from that was like f i felt good you know doing an oral report felt good you know doing an oral report felt good you know doing an oral report and and nailing it after not really even and and nailing it after not really even and and nailing it after not really even working on it and the teacher going like working on it and the teacher going like working on it and the teacher going like that was very good oh gosh Terry the I I that was very good oh gosh Terry the I I that was very good oh gosh Terry the I I did a couple little devotional things did a couple little devotional things did a couple little devotional things throughout high school because I got throughout high school because I got throughout high school because I got really involved in full-time missions really involved in full-time missions really involved in full-time missions like sorry part-time missions I would like sorry part-time missions I would like sorry part-time missions I would raise up money all year and then go to raise up money all year and then go to raise up money all year and then go to Mexico or Nepal or the Philippines or Mexico or Nepal or the Philippines or Mexico or Nepal or the Philippines or Romania or Hungary and and do do Romania or Hungary and and do do Romania or Hungary and and do do month-long service projects because I month-long service projects because I month-long service projects because I felt the call to Ministry those shape me felt the call to Ministry those shape me felt the call to Ministry those shape me and I and honestly missions is how we've and I and honestly missions is how we've and I and honestly missions is how we've approached church planning we just kind approached church planning we just kind approached church planning we just kind of look at it that way and and the of look at it that way and and the of look at it that way and and the intensity so people are always like wow intensity so people are always like wow intensity so people are always like wow how is Montana I'm like dude like you how is Montana I'm like dude like you how is Montana I'm like dude like you don't have to use a filter to drink the don't have to use a filter to drink the don't have to use a filter to drink the water it's so much easier than the water it's so much easier than the water it's so much easier than the Philippines like you know whatever so Philippines like you know whatever so Philippines like you know whatever so those those shaped me and then I think those those shaped me and then I think those those shaped me and then I think the unhealthy side would the unhealthy side would the unhealthy side would be um oh so positive side my dad by be um oh so positive side my dad by be um oh so positive side my dad by vocational right because he planted vocational right because he planted vocational right because he planted churches a couple of them but he would churches a couple of them but he would churches a couple of them but he would work all day a secular job a tent making work all day a secular job a tent making work all day a secular job a tent making job then you know do the church on the

job then you know do the church on the job then you know do the church on the weekend as a side thing in a school or a weekend as a side thing in a school or a weekend as a side thing in a school or a dayare facility and I would come in in dayare facility and I would come in in dayare facility and I would come in in the evenings to his study and watch him the evenings to his study and watch him the evenings to his study and watch him with a giant strong concordance big old with a giant strong concordance big old with a giant strong concordance big old buom book where you look up a word love buom book where you look up a word love buom book where you look up a word love or hate or peace and then it would tell or hate or peace and then it would tell or hate or peace and then it would tell you every reference in the Bible with you every reference in the Bible with you every reference in the Bible with those now digitally we can do this so those now digitally we can do this so those now digitally we can do this so easily but back then you had to look him easily but back then you had to look him easily but back then you had to look him up one by one with a ruler and then you up one by one with a ruler and then you up one by one with a ruler and then you go look him up so if I came in my dad go look him up so if I came in my dad go look him up so if I came in my dad would go hey bud he he would call me would go hey bud he he would call me would go hey bud he he would call me Levi major Buddy Guy hey Levi major Levi major Buddy Guy hey Levi major Levi major Buddy Guy hey Levi major Buddy Guy do you want to help me look up Buddy Guy do you want to help me look up Buddy Guy do you want to help me look up verses and he would let me go down one verses and he would let me go down one verses and he would let me go down one by one with my finger in the ruler and by one with my finger in the ruler and by one with my finger in the ruler and tell him the next reference he would tell him the next reference he would tell him the next reference he would look it up and write it out for his look it up and write it out for his look it up and write it out for his sermon to get a cross reference on love sermon to get a cross reference on love sermon to get a cross reference on love you know 1 Corinthians 13 to Philippians you know 1 Corinthians 13 to Philippians you know 1 Corinthians 13 to Philippians 2 or whatever and that shaped me too 2 or whatever and that shaped me too 2 or whatever and that shaped me too because it taught me here's a guy who because it taught me here's a guy who because it taught me here's a guy who just worked all day and now he's here just worked all day and now he's here just worked all day and now he's here just laboring to write a Bible study and just laboring to write a Bible study and just laboring to write a Bible study and seeing the hard work it takes um to put seeing the hard work it takes um to put seeing the hard work it takes um to put a sermon a sermon a sermon together H those are fascinating you together H those are fascinating you together H those are fascinating you know influences and you're right it's a know influences and you're right it's a know influences and you're right it's a mix of of we're we're so binary in our mix of of we're we're so binary in our mix of of we're we're so binary in our categories it's like well that was good categories it's like well that was good categories it's like well that was good and this was bad and yet God somehow and this was bad and yet God somehow and this was bad and yet God somehow mixes it together oh the negative one so mixes it together oh the negative one so mixes it together oh the negative one so so my first actual sermon was first year so my first actual sermon was first year so my first actual sermon was first year of Bible College I said hey anybody can of Bible College I said hey anybody can of Bible College I said hey anybody can sign up to give a dvo to the whole sign up to give a dvo to the whole sign up to give a dvo to the whole student body I was like man that'd be student body I was like man that'd be student body I was like man that'd be that'd be amazing I'd love to try that that'd be amazing I'd love to try that that'd be amazing I'd love to try that wow when it got down to it I mean I was wow when it got down to it I mean I was wow when it got down to it I mean I was sick with nerves I threw up did you used sick with nerves I threw up did you used sick with nerves I threw up did you used to throw up I never have no I haven't uh to throw up I never have no I haven't uh to throw up I never have no I haven't uh before public speaking Yeah yeah anytime

before public speaking Yeah yeah anytime before public speaking Yeah yeah anytime I would do something like that I would I would do something like that I would I would do something like that I would always get so nervous the night before I always get so nervous the night before I always get so nervous the night before I would vomit I had a little tape cassette would vomit I had a little tape cassette would vomit I had a little tape cassette I stayed up all night I would I would do I stayed up all night I would I would do I stayed up all night I would I would do my sermon and do the tape recorder then my sermon and do the tape recorder then my sermon and do the tape recorder then listen it back and then re redo it make listen it back and then re redo it make listen it back and then re redo it make changes so I took it so seriously it's changes so I took it so seriously it's changes so I took it so seriously it's the point for a 20 minute Devo but then the point for a 20 minute Devo but then the point for a 20 minute Devo but then when I got up there I was so nervous when I got up there I was so nervous when I got up there I was so nervous instead of open your Bibles I said open instead of open your Bibles I said open instead of open your Bibles I said open your bibbles and then I was like kicking your bibbles and then I was like kicking your bibbles and then I was like kicking myself the rest of the day thank myself the rest of the day thank myself the rest of the day thank goodness there's no social media then goodness there's no social media then goodness there's no social media then but from that moment forward it went but from that moment forward it went but from that moment forward it went pretty good you know it was Isaiah 6 who pretty good you know it was Isaiah 6 who pretty good you know it was Isaiah 6 who the sermon was titled who's your Uzziah the sermon was titled who's your Uzziah the sermon was titled who's your Uzziah you know Uzziah died Isaiah saw the Lord you know Uzziah died Isaiah saw the Lord you know Uzziah died Isaiah saw the Lord who who have to die in your life to see who who have to die in your life to see who who have to die in your life to see the Lord oh all right and and it went the Lord oh all right and and it went the Lord oh all right and and it went good I got into a flow felt felt that good I got into a flow felt felt that good I got into a flow felt felt that you know the holy spirit that unction you know the holy spirit that unction you know the holy spirit that unction Spurgeon call I felt that and it felt Spurgeon call I felt that and it felt Spurgeon call I felt that and it felt like the room came with me got you know like the room came with me got you know like the room came with me got you know where it gets real where it gets real where it gets real still and I got done rushed off the still and I got done rushed off the still and I got done rushed off the stage went straight to the bathroom just stage went straight to the bathroom just stage went straight to the bathroom just wash splash water in my face and a guy wash splash water in my face and a guy wash splash water in my face and a guy came in and grabbed me by the shoulders came in and grabbed me by the shoulders came in and grabbed me by the shoulders and goes that was unbelievable and I go and goes that was unbelievable and I go and goes that was unbelievable and I go oh thanks you praise God brother and he oh thanks you praise God brother and he oh thanks you praise God brother and he goes no this is the stupid part he goes goes no this is the stupid part he goes goes no this is the stupid part he goes and you me well but B bless his heart he and you me well but B bless his heart he and you me well but B bless his heart he goes Levi it's like in that breathy goes Levi it's like in that breathy goes Levi it's like in that breathy Bible College voice when you give a word Bible College voice when you give a word Bible College voice when you give a word to somebody because go brother I saw it to somebody because go brother I saw it to somebody because go brother I saw it you're the next Billy you're the next Billy you're the next Billy Graham and you know I'm like uh come on Graham and you know I'm like uh come on Graham and you know I'm like uh come on come on there's not there's no there's come on there's not there's no there's come on there's not there's no there's no next Billy gram but you want to talk no next Billy gram but you want to talk no next Billy gram but you want to talk about unhealthy validation like oh yeah about unhealthy validation like oh yeah about unhealthy validation like oh yeah okay that felt that felt good in both okay that felt that felt good in both okay that felt that felt good in both categories in the encouragement and in categories in the encouragement and in categories in the encouragement and in the separate Superior right no you know

the separate Superior right no you know the separate Superior right no you know it's interesting the part of the story it's interesting the part of the story it's interesting the part of the story that that I would pick up is uh putting that that I would pick up is uh putting that that I would pick up is uh putting in very little effort and getting a lot in very little effort and getting a lot in very little effort and getting a lot of reward that was sort of my journey I of reward that was sort of my journey I of reward that was sort of my journey I remember being thrown into the public remember being thrown into the public remember being thrown into the public Spotlight even at 12 uh having to give a Spotlight even at 12 uh having to give a Spotlight even at 12 uh having to give a public talk at our church and people public talk at our church and people public talk at our church and people going oh my goodness and it wasn't going oh my goodness and it wasn't going oh my goodness and it wasn't you're the next Billy Graham it's like you're the next Billy Graham it's like you're the next Billy Graham it's like you'll be the next prime minister the you'll be the next prime minister the you'll be the next prime minister the next president so to speak and it was next president so to speak and it was next president so to speak and it was just stuff that I'm like I didn't even just stuff that I'm like I didn't even just stuff that I'm like I didn't even try you know and I'm not that good try you know and I'm not that good try you know and I'm not that good that's not what I'm saying but uh if I that's not what I'm saying but uh if I that's not what I'm saying but uh if I have Nemesis it's like the the have Nemesis it's like the the have Nemesis it's like the the affirmation you affirmation you affirmation you get sometimes happens when you don't get sometimes happens when you don't get sometimes happens when you don't even put in an effort it's like what is even put in an effort it's like what is even put in an effort it's like what is that and then you can get lazy and you that and then you can get lazy and you that and then you can get lazy and you can wing it and you can cheat your gift can wing it and you can cheat your gift can wing it and you can cheat your gift and and the whole deal I prepare a lot and and the whole deal I prepare a lot and and the whole deal I prepare a lot more these days promise you that but um more these days promise you that but um more these days promise you that but um okay so all that is happening you said okay so all that is happening you said okay so all that is happening you said you were a ticking Time Bomb before the you were a ticking Time Bomb before the you were a ticking Time Bomb before the pandemic and I must say the other thing pandemic and I must say the other thing pandemic and I must say the other thing too we we were hanging out in Orlando too we we were hanging out in Orlando too we we were hanging out in Orlando earlier this year at event where we were earlier this year at event where we were earlier this year at event where we were both speaking and you know I got in I both speaking and you know I got in I both speaking and you know I got in I think the day after you and Jenny and think the day after you and Jenny and think the day after you and Jenny and your kids did but uh the buzz about your your kids did but uh the buzz about your your kids did but uh the buzz about your talk that morning was everywhere I went talk that morning was everywhere I went talk that morning was everywhere I went it was like should have been here for it was like should have been here for it was like should have been here for Levi's talk should have been here for Levi's talk should have been here for Levi's talk should have been here for Levi's talk Levi was unbelievable Levi's talk Levi was unbelievable Levi's talk Levi was unbelievable unbelievable I heard you the next unbelievable I heard you the next unbelievable I heard you the next morning same thing like amazing gift morning same thing like amazing gift morning same thing like amazing gift that God used and still uses uh but that God used and still uses uh but that God used and still uses uh but prior to the pandemic a lot of things prior to the pandemic a lot of things prior to the pandemic a lot of things went off during the pandemic but you went off during the pandemic but you went off during the pandemic but you said you were a ticking Time Bomb I said you were a ticking Time Bomb I said you were a ticking Time Bomb I guess right up until about 38 was your

guess right up until about 38 was your guess right up until about 38 was your midlife crisis do you want to walk us midlife crisis do you want to walk us midlife crisis do you want to walk us through why you looking back on it think through why you looking back on it think through why you looking back on it think you were a ticking Time Bomb yeah you were a ticking Time Bomb yeah you were a ticking Time Bomb yeah without a doubt so and thank you those without a doubt so and thank you those without a doubt so and thank you those are kind words and I can I I I hopefully are kind words and I can I I I hopefully are kind words and I can I I I hopefully I think I can compartmentalize on my I think I can compartmentalize on my I think I can compartmentalize on my best days now best days now best days now better that that that that is better that that that that is better that that that that is encouragement and I I know I worked hard encouragement and I I know I worked hard encouragement and I I know I worked hard on those talks and I see them as wins on those talks and I see them as wins on those talks and I see them as wins partially more so because it was a group partially more so because it was a group partially more so because it was a group of leaders that I was able to share pain of leaders that I was able to share pain of leaders that I was able to share pain with with with and not need something from that and not need something from that and not need something from that experience right so we should be able to experience right so we should be able to experience right so we should be able to that's that's that praise God that's that's that's that praise God that's that's that's that praise God that's what I was there for and thank God it what I was there for and thank God it what I was there for and thank God it connected the dots and I would say the connected the dots and I would say the connected the dots and I would say the same for your talk my team was like dude same for your talk my team was like dude same for your talk my team was like dude car's message was Paradigm shifting that car's message was Paradigm shifting that car's message was Paradigm shifting that who was there to to to receive from you who was there to to to receive from you who was there to to to receive from you and and that encourages us without and and that encourages us without and and that encourages us without feeling like I I need that to live it's feeling like I I need that to live it's feeling like I I need that to live it's not like it's in my tank of Praise it's not like it's in my tank of Praise it's not like it's in my tank of Praise it's like no that's that's good that it was like no that's that's good that it was like no that's that's good that it was helpful and my work did something for helpful and my work did something for helpful and my work did something for you right you right you right so the the pandemic so the the pandemic so the the pandemic uh and my midlife crisis were connected uh and my midlife crisis were connected uh and my midlife crisis were connected in the sense that ever since Through The in the sense that ever since Through The in the sense that ever since Through The Eyes of a lion came out my first book in Eyes of a lion came out my first book in Eyes of a lion came out my first book in 2015 the world just got bigger that book 2015 the world just got bigger that book 2015 the world just got bigger that book for whatever reason God chose to use it for whatever reason God chose to use it for whatever reason God chose to use it to help people in different places that to help people in different places that to help people in different places that created the demand on my life that was created the demand on my life that was created the demand on my life that was already growing but took a different already growing but took a different already growing but took a different turn in 2015 when I began to be

turn in 2015 when I began to be turn in 2015 when I began to be receiving speaking invitations in receiving speaking invitations in receiving speaking invitations in multiple continents you know come give multiple continents you know come give multiple continents you know come give this message because it it it was this message because it it it was this message because it it it was helping people and in 2015 you were how helping people and in 2015 you were how helping people and in 2015 you were how old just to put it in context in old just to put it in context in old just to put it in context in 2015 uh 18 plus 15 is 33 Okay so 33 and 2015 uh 18 plus 15 is 33 Okay so 33 and 2015 uh 18 plus 15 is 33 Okay so 33 and I already was at that point traveling I already was at that point traveling I already was at that point traveling nationally but there wasn't really the nationally but there wasn't really the nationally but there wasn't really the same kind of level of international same kind of level of international same kind of level of international opportunity sure so I go to you know opportunity sure so I go to you know opportunity sure so I go to you know South Africa for the weekend you know South Africa for the weekend you know South Africa for the weekend you know I'm just giving a talk and then jumping I'm just giving a talk and then jumping I'm just giving a talk and then jumping straight back on the flight to to and straight back on the flight to to and straight back on the flight to to and then writing the talk on the flight I'd then writing the talk on the flight I'd then writing the talk on the flight I'd give it home and then I come home like give it home and then I come home like give it home and then I come home like there was sometimes I would you know be there was sometimes I would you know be there was sometimes I would you know be out doing a thing and then land home for out doing a thing and then land home for out doing a thing and then land home for four hours record a talk for that Sunday four hours record a talk for that Sunday four hours record a talk for that Sunday and then I'm on the next plane to New and then I'm on the next plane to New and then I'm on the next plane to New York City to you it's just like moving York City to you it's just like moving York City to you it's just like moving and going so you didn't even have and going so you didn't even have and going so you didn't even have boundaries or rules then you were just boundaries or rules then you were just boundaries or rules then you were just kind I would have told you then I did I kind I would have told you then I did I kind I would have told you then I did I would have told you then I was saying no would have told you then I was saying no would have told you then I was saying no and I wasn't accepting everything and I and I wasn't accepting everything and I and I wasn't accepting everything and I was trying to pray Through It Again mix was trying to pray Through It Again mix was trying to pray Through It Again mix Mo it wasn't like I was this evil person Mo it wasn't like I was this evil person Mo it wasn't like I was this evil person like who got a book out and now is like like who got a book out and now is like like who got a book out and now is like well guess what world celebrity Levis well guess what world celebrity Levis well guess what world celebrity Levis here you know what I mean like that's here you know what I mean like that's here you know what I mean like that's that's not what anybody says I would that's not what anybody says I would that's not what anybody says I would hope very fair in the time I would have hope very fair in the time I would have hope very fair in the time I would have told you the devil took Lena from me with you the devil took Lena from me with God's approval and I want to make the devil approval and I want to make the devil pay for pay for pay for that I want to um see good come from bad that I want to um see good come from bad that I want to um see good come from bad I want to see pain turned into power I I want to see pain turned into power I I want to see pain turned into power I want to honor my daughter's Story by

want to honor my daughter's Story by want to honor my daughter's Story by sharing it with every hurting heart I sharing it with every hurting heart I sharing it with every hurting heart I can and you know I want to take what the can and you know I want to take what the can and you know I want to take what the thief has stolen and restore it thief has stolen and restore it thief has stolen and restore it Sevenfold like like that that's my that Sevenfold like like that that's my that Sevenfold like like that that's my that was my rationale and was there some part was my rationale and was there some part was my rationale and was there some part of me that was of me that was of me that was simultaneously simultaneously simultaneously enjoying enjoying enjoying the the shadow side of that for sure the the shadow side of that for sure the the shadow side of that for sure yeah but but it wasn't and but I was yeah but but it wasn't and but I was yeah but but it wasn't and but I was trying to take that to the altar too you trying to take that to the altar too you trying to take that to the altar too you know what I mean so all and trying to know what I mean so all and trying to know what I mean so all and trying to tell friends like how do you stay tell friends like how do you stay tell friends like how do you stay healthy how do you you know and then healthy how do you you know and then healthy how do you you know and then it's like next sugar-free Red Bull and it's like next sugar-free Red Bull and it's like next sugar-free Red Bull and five more talks you know and then I'm five more talks you know and then I'm five more talks you know and then I'm going to write another book and you know going to write another book and you know going to write another book and you know and and and and on on it went and and and and and and on on it went and and and and and and on on it went and and and for those who may not know uh the and for those who may not know uh the and for those who may not know uh the context for that is your daughter Lena context for that is your daughter Lena context for that is your daughter Lena passed away from an asthma attack is passed away from an asthma attack is passed away from an asthma attack is with Jesus now in heaven um and uh again with Jesus now in heaven um and uh again with Jesus now in heaven um and uh again we talked about that here before but we talked about that here before but we talked about that here before but what a what an unbelievable circumstance what a what an unbelievable circumstance what a what an unbelievable circumstance to have to go through as a parent to have to go through as a parent to have to go through as a parent continue to be so sorry that was 2012 continue to be so sorry that was 2012 continue to be so sorry that was 2012 she was in Jenny's womb when we started she was in Jenny's womb when we started she was in Jenny's womb when we started our church and again 22 23 we're senior our church and again 22 23 we're senior our church and again 22 23 we're senior pastors we we don't know anything about pastors we we don't know anything about pastors we we don't know anything about anything but we're watching God breathe anything but we're watching God breathe anything but we're watching God breathe on his word and do everything and and so on his word and do everything and and so on his word and do everything and and so all of that um was so hard with Lena all of that um was so hard with Lena all of that um was so hard with Lena died of course you know she she goes to died of course you know she she goes to died of course you know she she goes to be with Jesus five days before Christmas be with Jesus five days before Christmas be with Jesus five days before Christmas now old when she died she was five now old when she died she was five now old when she died she was five five and she would be 18 now you know so five and she would be 18 now you know so five and she would be 18 now you know so we would be getting ready for her we would be getting ready for her we would be getting ready for her graduation and and all the things but in graduation and and all the things but in graduation and and all the things but in the moment I just I wanted to see God

the moment I just I wanted to see God the moment I just I wanted to see God use it for good and he has and and I get use it for good and he has and and I get use it for good and he has and and I get a letter every day from somebody who's a letter every day from somebody who's a letter every day from somebody who's got some sort of awful story of either a got some sort of awful story of either a got some sort of awful story of either a child death or a cancer story or the child death or a cancer story or the child death or a cancer story or the loss of a marriage who's found Hope with loss of a marriage who's found Hope with loss of a marriage who's found Hope with eyes of a lion we're doing a 10-year if eyes of a lion we're doing a 10-year if eyes of a lion we're doing a 10-year if you can believe it updated Edition in in you can believe it updated Edition in in you can believe it updated Edition in in hard cover next year with updated and hard cover next year with updated and hard cover next year with updated and expanded content it's going to be great expanded content it's going to be great expanded content it's going to be great and I'm it's in you know 10 languages and I'm it's in you know 10 languages and I'm it's in you know 10 languages now you know it's now you know it's now you know it's awesome but awesome but awesome but I flew a million miles in a decade and I I flew a million miles in a decade and I I flew a million miles in a decade and I um you know those miles tick away on um you know those miles tick away on um you know those miles tick away on your inner odometer not just on your your inner odometer not just on your your inner odometer not just on your your Delta account right yeah they sent your Delta account right yeah they sent your Delta account right yeah they sent me this Tumi bag when I hit a million me this Tumi bag when I hit a million me this Tumi bag when I hit a million miles and I just hit my second million miles and I just hit my second million miles and I just hit my second million actually a couple months ago have I actually a couple months ago have I actually a couple months ago have I shared that story with you no no I've shared that story with you no no I've shared that story with you no no I've hit half a million with Air Canada and hit half a million with Air Canada and hit half a million with Air Canada and I'm like it's going to be a long time I'm like it's going to be a long time I'm like it's going to be a long time till I hit a million tell the story okay till I hit a million tell the story okay till I hit a million tell the story okay the second million we were on a flight the second million we were on a flight the second million we were on a flight from uh uh Athens to Paris and I knew from uh uh Athens to Paris and I knew from uh uh Athens to Paris and I knew that it was going to hit my second that it was going to hit my second that it was going to hit my second million right and I was kind of excited million right and I was kind of excited million right and I was kind of excited because like that's a that's a a big because like that's a that's a a big because like that's a that's a a big deal that's like very few people ever deal that's like very few people ever deal that's like very few people ever hit that so yeah I was like I don't know hit that so yeah I was like I don't know hit that so yeah I was like I don't know what's gonna happen like I don't know if what's gonna happen like I don't know if what's gonna happen like I don't know if George Clooney's coming out to say hi George Clooney's coming out to say hi George Clooney's coming out to say hi you know like but I like low key like I you know like but I like low key like I you know like but I like low key like I was like kind of excited right nothing was like kind of excited right nothing was like kind of excited right nothing not a word we land I'm like oh that was not a word we land I'm like oh that was not a word we land I'm like oh that was anticlimactic you know like I had been anticlimactic you know like I had been anticlimactic you know like I had been telling my hey hey guys try and act cool telling my hey hey guys try and act cool telling my hey hey guys try and act cool when they come out Emar you know try not when they come out Emar you know try not when they come out Emar you know try not to you know play it cool like this to you know play it cool like this to you know play it cool like this happens every day nothing so they're happens every day nothing so they're happens every day nothing so they're just mocking me you know uh my whole

just mocking me you know uh my whole just mocking me you know uh my whole family was with us on this flight okay family was with us on this flight okay family was with us on this flight okay so then we land from after Paris we we so then we land from after Paris we we so then we land from after Paris we we go wherever we go and the next flight's go wherever we go and the next flight's go wherever we go and the next flight's gonna be gonna be gonna be Atlanta and I'm like okay Atlanta's Atlanta and I'm like okay Atlanta's Atlanta and I'm like okay Atlanta's Delta's Hub surely they're gonna Delta's Hub surely they're gonna Delta's Hub surely they're gonna recognize greatness when they see it we recognize greatness when they see it we recognize greatness when they see it we get off the plane Carrie I'm not joking get off the plane Carrie I'm not joking get off the plane Carrie I'm not joking there's a a woman you know the red there's a a woman you know the red there's a a woman you know the red purple they're wearing purple that purple they're wearing purple that purple they're wearing purple that purple outfits and they got a um a sign purple outfits and they got a um a sign purple outfits and they got a um a sign congratulations 2 million miles balloons congratulations 2 million miles balloons congratulations 2 million miles balloons a bag and I'm like a bag and I'm like a bag and I'm like well this is it this is the moment I've well this is it this is the moment I've well this is it this is the moment I've been waiting for and so I walk up to been waiting for and so I walk up to been waiting for and so I walk up to them we were not in first class we were them we were not in first class we were them we were not in first class we were just behind first class so when we get just behind first class so when we get just behind first class so when we get off very few people had gotten off and I off very few people had gotten off and I off very few people had gotten off and I go oh hey you're and she and she goes oh go oh hey you're and she and she goes oh go oh hey you're and she and she goes oh my gosh it's you and I go yeah you just my gosh it's you and I go yeah you just my gosh it's you and I go yeah you just trying to like you know Hey look it's trying to like you know Hey look it's trying to like you know Hey look it's let's just let's just keep this you know let's just let's just keep this you know let's just let's just keep this you know chill I don't need everyone I don't need chill I don't need everyone I don't need chill I don't need everyone I don't need Paparazzi show up here right she goes Paparazzi show up here right she goes Paparazzi show up here right she goes are you Mr Garcia I go I go Garcia no are you Mr Garcia I go I go Garcia no are you Mr Garcia I go I go Garcia no I'm Levi lco right have you not read my I'm Levi lco right have you not read my I'm Levi lco right have you not read my bestselling you know and she goes oh no bestselling you know and she goes oh no bestselling you know and she goes oh no no no get out of the way M we're got to no no get out of the way M we're got to no no get out of the way M we're got to be ready for Mr Garcia and she goes she be ready for Mr Garcia and she goes she be ready for Mr Garcia and she goes she scoots me off to the side and I'm like scoots me off to the side and I'm like scoots me off to the side and I'm like what in the world what in the actual what in the world what in the actual what in the world what in the actual world what are the odds that on the same world what are the odds that on the same world what are the odds that on the same trip Mr Garcia hits two million and trip Mr Garcia hits two million and trip Mr Garcia hits two million and somehow Delta if anyone from Delta's somehow Delta if anyone from Delta's somehow Delta if anyone from Delta's listening to the present day I never got listening to the present day I never got listening to the present day I never got a balloon I never got a parade they did a balloon I never got a parade they did a balloon I never got a parade they did send me an email about a a month later I send me an email about a a month later I send me an email about a a month later I got email say hey congratulations on got email say hey congratulations on got email say hey congratulations on reaching this Milestone would you like

reaching this Milestone would you like reaching this Milestone would you like either a like a plaque for your desk or either a like a plaque for your desk or either a like a plaque for your desk or you know like a a leather briefcase so you know like a a leather briefcase so you know like a a leather briefcase so it but but I was I was so I was laughing it but but I was I was so I was laughing it but but I was I was so I was laughing so hard because I just wanted that so hard because I just wanted that so hard because I just wanted that parade more than I can tell you oh you parade more than I can tell you oh you parade more than I can tell you oh you know what when you're in the air a lot I know what when you're in the air a lot I know what when you're in the air a lot I have top tier with Air Canada they're have top tier with Air Canada they're have top tier with Air Canada they're supposed to do certain things and when supposed to do certain things and when supposed to do certain things and when they don't I have like a little suck they don't I have like a little suck they don't I have like a little suck attack inside my head and I realize it's attack inside my head and I realize it's attack inside my head and I realize it's so ridiculous so I wish say that I'm a so ridiculous so I wish say that I'm a so ridiculous so I wish say that I'm a big enough person that didn't mean big enough person that didn't mean big enough person that didn't mean anything to me but it really did and I'm anything to me but it really did and I'm anything to me but it really did and I'm super salty about I'm not I'm not that super salty about I'm not I'm not that super salty about I'm not I'm not that big big a person either so I don't big big a person either so I don't big big a person either so I don't remember what the question was ticking remember what the question was ticking remember what the question was ticking Time Bomb oh yeah ticking Time Bomb Time Bomb oh yeah ticking Time Bomb Time Bomb oh yeah ticking Time Bomb that's right so that and then all the that's right so that and then all the that's right so that and then all the childhood undiagnosed wounds those not childhood undiagnosed wounds those not childhood undiagnosed wounds those not getting your 2 million miles and no I'm getting your 2 million miles and no I'm getting your 2 million miles and no I'm a healthy I'm at a healthy place now a healthy I'm at a healthy place now a healthy I'm at a healthy place now can't you tell yeah I can tell I can can't you tell yeah I can tell I can can't you tell yeah I can tell I can tell and I I had a lot of empathy for tell and I I had a lot of empathy for tell and I I had a lot of empathy for that story but weirdly Lena that story but weirdly Lena that story but weirdly Lena was the least of my worries that wound was the least of my worries that wound was the least of my worries that wound not to say that that's not a serious not to say that that's not a serious not to say that that's not a serious thing and not to say I don't still have thing and not to say I don't still have thing and not to say I don't still have healing to do which I do yeah wait till healing to do which I do yeah wait till healing to do which I do yeah wait till Livy gets married wait till you know Livy gets married wait till you know Livy gets married wait till you know Lennox gets married and she's not there Lennox gets married and she's not there Lennox gets married and she's not there that'll be a whole new level but because that'll be a whole new level but because that'll be a whole new level but because that was so so so gaping it got her that was so so so gaping it got her that was so so so gaping it got her undivided attention yes and after Lenn undivided attention yes and after Lenn undivided attention yes and after Lenn went to heaven there was not a if I went to heaven there was not a if I went to heaven there was not a if I could talk to a coun if I could talk to could talk to a coun if I could talk to could talk to a coun if I could talk to a past like we we I I knew our marriage a past like we we I I knew our marriage a past like we we I I knew our marriage was hanging on by a thread because how was hanging on by a thread because how was hanging on by a thread because how many stories of a child death ends ends many stories of a child death ends ends many stories of a child death ends ends up with the marriage breaking up the up with the marriage breaking up the up with the marriage breaking up the statistics are very stats are off the statistics are very stats are off the statistics are very stats are off the chart for that they're very bad so I

chart for that they're very bad so I chart for that they're very bad so I knew I needed to focus on our marriage I knew I needed to focus on our marriage I knew I needed to focus on our marriage I needed to focus on my my health but what needed to focus on my my health but what needed to focus on my my health but what I never really did was asked the the I never really did was asked the the I never really did was asked the the right question what what long historic right question what what long historic right question what what long historic wound because I I think partially I've wound because I I think partially I've wound because I I think partially I've just been annoyed by how many people just been annoyed by how many people just been annoyed by how many people like my childhood trauma you know like like my childhood trauma you know like like my childhood trauma you know like that yeah yeah I that yeah yeah I that yeah yeah I do I get it okay so you had all these do I get it okay so you had all these do I get it okay so you had all these undiagnosed things and then what started undiagnosed things and then what started undiagnosed things and then what started to happen did you hit a wall was it like to happen did you hit a wall was it like to happen did you hit a wall was it like one morning you woke up and you were not one morning you woke up and you were not one morning you woke up and you were not okay was it a slide into a crisis okay was it a slide into a crisis okay was it a slide into a crisis because what I've realized on the other because what I've realized on the other because what I've realized on the other side of telling my burnout story now for side of telling my burnout story now for side of telling my burnout story now for over 15 years is a lot of people don't over 15 years is a lot of people don't over 15 years is a lot of people don't even realize they're probably heading even realize they're probably heading even realize they're probably heading directly into burnout And when they see directly into burnout And when they see directly into burnout And when they see the symptoms they're like uhoh what what the symptoms they're like uhoh what what the symptoms they're like uhoh what what were what was your wakeup call were what was your wakeup call were what was your wakeup call instantaneous overnight on a dime oh wow instantaneous overnight on a dime oh wow instantaneous overnight on a dime oh wow like a flip switch in carry yeah like um like a flip switch in carry yeah like um like a flip switch in carry yeah like um your surge protector goes in your garage your surge protector goes in your garage your surge protector goes in your garage and now there's no lights on that and now there's no lights on that and now there's no lights on that circuit circuit circuit anymore my wife had released her first anymore my wife had released her first anymore my wife had released her first book and I was about to um have a book and I was about to um have a book and I was about to um have a extended break because I had preached extended break because I had preached extended break because I had preached from you from you from you know the pandemic was what mid-march know the pandemic was what mid-march know the pandemic was what mid-march yeah till I did every week until May yeah till I did every week until May yeah till I did every week until May which is unusual for me I normally would which is unusual for me I normally would which is unusual for me I normally would take a the break here and there but from take a the break here and there but from take a the break here and there but from March till May I think I did you know March till May I think I did you know March till May I think I did you know what 13 or whatever the amount of shot what 13 or whatever the amount of shot what 13 or whatever the amount of shot down and a lot of people were in that down and a lot of people were in that down and a lot of people were in that boat yeah well and we needed to be

boat yeah well and we needed to be boat yeah well and we needed to be experts on everything there was uh race experts on everything there was uh race experts on everything there was uh race vacing uh masks uh you know what I mean vacing uh masks uh you know what I mean vacing uh masks uh you know what I mean like political politics so it's like I I like political politics so it's like I I like political politics so it's like I I had to have like every other Pastor some had to have like every other Pastor some had to have like every other Pastor some informed answer to every and and I you informed answer to every and and I you informed answer to every and and I you know made lots of mistakes and I don't know made lots of mistakes and I don't know made lots of mistakes and I don't we don't need to get all that but I did we don't need to get all that but I did we don't need to get all that but I did that and I I led as well as I could and that and I I led as well as I could and that and I I led as well as I could and then my wife's now about to do four then my wife's now about to do four then my wife's now about to do four weeks of of preaching around her book weeks of of preaching around her book weeks of of preaching around her book that's out and I was like oh my gosh I that's out and I was like oh my gosh I that's out and I was like oh my gosh I got to have a break this is going to be got to have a break this is going to be got to have a break this is going to be great First Night 2 great First Night 2 great First Night 2 amm panic attack heart probably amm panic attack heart probably amm panic attack heart probably 185 hands sweating confused suicidal 185 hands sweating confused suicidal 185 hands sweating confused suicidal ideation nothing's going to be okay ideation nothing's going to be okay ideation nothing's going to be okay tried to read the Bible it was all tried to read the Bible it was all tried to read the Bible it was all floating like uh like like symbols tried floating like uh like like symbols tried floating like uh like like symbols tried to put on a sermon from Lou Giglio it it to put on a sermon from Lou Giglio it it to put on a sermon from Lou Giglio it it didn't help me I wake up Jenny didn't help me I wake up Jenny didn't help me I wake up Jenny terrified I almost said to her I need terrified I almost said to her I need terrified I almost said to her I need you to call the police I need you to get you to call the police I need you to get you to call the police I need you to get help I don't know what's going on I help I don't know what's going on I help I don't know what's going on I don't know if I'm GNA hurt myself uh she don't know if I'm GNA hurt myself uh she don't know if I'm GNA hurt myself uh she prayed with me encouraged with me all prayed with me encouraged with me all prayed with me encouraged with me all through that first night and that was through that first night and that was through that first night and that was the beginning of me the beginning of me the beginning of me realizing the way a counselor described realizing the way a counselor described realizing the way a counselor described it to me is you don't feel the effects it to me is you don't feel the effects it to me is you don't feel the effects of War when you're in it it's when you of War when you're in it it's when you of War when you're in it it's when you come back home you start to unpack what come back home you start to unpack what come back home you start to unpack what you experience because your brain has a you experience because your brain has a you experience because your brain has a way of protecting itself so you can way of protecting itself so you can way of protecting itself so you can continue to Soldier on I think for all continue to Soldier on I think for all continue to Soldier on I think for all the years from 15 till 2020 those five the years from 15 till 2020 those five the years from 15 till 2020 those five years in particular I think because

years in particular I think because years in particular I think because there was the adrenalized state that there was the adrenalized state that there was the adrenalized state that almost never ended it all just stayed almost never ended it all just stayed almost never ended it all just stayed in Adrenaline and and next thing and in Adrenaline and and next thing and in Adrenaline and and next thing and then when I now was like oh I have a then when I now was like oh I have a then when I now was like oh I have a month off with no preaching I have month off with no preaching I have month off with no preaching I have really nowhere to go I'm not going to really nowhere to go I'm not going to really nowhere to go I'm not going to get on an airplane my body began to feel get on an airplane my body began to feel get on an airplane my body began to feel all of that H H how long did the all of that H H how long did the all of that H H how long did the symptoms symptoms symptoms last that's a good question for sure until August you know question for sure until August you know may to August was when I really was may to August was when I really was may to August was when I really was terrified because it wasn't just the terrified because it wasn't just the terrified because it wasn't just the nights where it would happen it was the nights where it would happen it was the nights where it would happen it was the nights in between where it didn't but nights in between where it didn't but nights in between where it didn't but I'm on I'm on I'm on eggshell and I felt every night coming eggshell and I felt every night coming eggshell and I felt every night coming up the stairs to my up the stairs to my up the stairs to my bedroom this sense of is tonight going bedroom this sense of is tonight going bedroom this sense of is tonight going to be one of those nights yeah and and I to be one of those nights yeah and and I to be one of those nights yeah and and I I I also was simultaneously so un I I also was simultaneously so un I I also was simultaneously so un because I didn't have the clarity to go because I didn't have the clarity to go because I didn't have the clarity to go hey pal it's okay you're at a midlife hey pal it's okay you're at a midlife hey pal it's okay you're at a midlife crisis because you are crisis because you are crisis because you are physically likely to have more life physically likely to have more life physically likely to have more life behind you than in front of you and it's behind you than in front of you and it's behind you than in front of you and it's natural to have terror trepidation at natural to have terror trepidation at natural to have terror trepidation at transition but transition but transition but simultaneously you are just um needing simultaneously you are just um needing simultaneously you are just um needing to unpack a lot of childhood trauma and to unpack a lot of childhood trauma and to unpack a lot of childhood trauma and you've been going at an unsustainable you've been going at an unsustainable you've been going at an unsustainable pace and you need to recalibrate but I pace and you need to recalibrate but I pace and you need to recalibrate but I didn't have the clarity to to make any didn't have the clarity to to make any didn't have the clarity to to make any of those conclusions I just was really of those conclusions I just was really of those conclusions I just was really terrified and simultaneously dealing

terrified and simultaneously dealing terrified and simultaneously dealing with apathy which has never been with apathy which has never been with apathy which has never been something I've ever struggled with where something I've ever struggled with where something I've ever struggled with where I didn't have a desire to write a sermon I didn't have a desire to write a sermon I didn't have a desire to write a sermon or write a book or write um not I did or write a book or write um not I did or write a book or write um not I did have a desire to write a book but I have a desire to write a book but I have a desire to write a book but I didn't have a desire to continue to lead didn't have a desire to continue to lead didn't have a desire to continue to lead our organization and I had never felt our organization and I had never felt our organization and I had never felt that before yeah I want to talk about that before yeah I want to talk about that before yeah I want to talk about that I mean there are parallels burnout that I mean there are parallels burnout that I mean there are parallels burnout came on literally overnight I woke up came on literally overnight I woke up came on literally overnight I woke up one day and exactly like you said it's one day and exactly like you said it's one day and exactly like you said it's like someone pulled all the uh cords out like someone pulled all the uh cords out like someone pulled all the uh cords out of the wall and there was no power was of the wall and there was no power was of the wall and there was no power was like what what and apathy uh lethargy no like what what and apathy uh lethargy no like what what and apathy uh lethargy no motivation no energy no joy I didn't motivation no energy no joy I didn't motivation no energy no joy I didn't have the panic attacks and the have the panic attacks and the have the panic attacks and the palpitations but just like yeah powered palpitations but just like yeah powered palpitations but just like yeah powered down it's like a 100 watt light bulb down it's like a 100 watt light bulb down it's like a 100 watt light bulb functioning at you know five watts and functioning at you know five watts and functioning at you know five watts and flickering and and I'd love to dive into flickering and and I'd love to dive into flickering and and I'd love to dive into the motivation part because you know the motivation part because you know the motivation part because you know these stats like around the time of these stats like around the time of these stats like around the time of covid 42% of pastors thought about uh covid 42% of pastors thought about uh covid 42% of pastors thought about uh gave serious consideration to leaving gave serious consideration to leaving gave serious consideration to leaving full-time Ministry you're part of that full-time Ministry you're part of that full-time Ministry you're part of that 42% if somebody pulled you but for 42% if somebody pulled you but for 42% if somebody pulled you but for different reasons other than just different reasons other than just different reasons other than just covid what what happened with that loss covid what what happened with that loss covid what what happened with that loss of drive because you're the kid at five of drive because you're the kid at five of drive because you're the kid at five who's up at 5:30 a.m. watching cartoons who's up at 5:30 a.m. watching cartoons who's up at 5:30 a.m. watching cartoons this has been your whole life for almost this has been your whole life for almost this has been your whole life for almost four decades four decades four decades yeah I think you know let's say you were yeah I think you know let's say you were yeah I think you know let's say you were playing playing playing basketball and all of a sudden basketball and all of a sudden basketball and all of a sudden you blinked and you all of a sudden were you blinked and you all of a sudden were you blinked and you all of a sudden were on a lacrosse field but you were

on a lacrosse field but you were on a lacrosse field but you were continuing to try and play continuing to try and play continuing to try and play basketball you would do the same thing basketball you would do the same thing basketball you would do the same thing but it wouldn't get the same score uh but it wouldn't get the same score uh but it wouldn't get the same score uh validation out of it right yeah I think validation out of it right yeah I think validation out of it right yeah I think I was I was I was naturally because of where I was at in naturally because of where I was at in naturally because of where I was at in life life life supposed to be playing lacrosse but I supposed to be playing lacrosse but I supposed to be playing lacrosse but I was still trying to play was still trying to play was still trying to play basketball the metrics of the first half basketball the metrics of the first half basketball the metrics of the first half of Life by of Life by of Life by necessity necessity necessity involve scale and intensity you know involve scale and intensity you know involve scale and intensity you know otherwise nothing would get done like I otherwise nothing would get done like I otherwise nothing would get done like I said a moment ago that we need young men said a moment ago that we need young men said a moment ago that we need young men and women with fire in their bellies to and women with fire in their bellies to and women with fire in their bellies to create and innovate and you know to use create and innovate and you know to use create and innovate and you know to use uh the language of others to have that uh the language of others to have that uh the language of others to have that that fluid intelligence and see the that fluid intelligence and see the that fluid intelligence and see the World differently see Church differently World differently see Church differently World differently see Church differently see you know the Unseen write the operas see you know the Unseen write the operas see you know the Unseen write the operas do do the you know the next Formula the do do the you know the next Formula the do do the you know the next Formula the next startup and honestly I like a woman next startup and honestly I like a woman next startup and honestly I like a woman having a baby I don't think without that having a baby I don't think without that having a baby I don't think without that fire in the belly much would get blazed fire in the belly much would get blazed fire in the belly much would get blazed like that sure the woman has this like that sure the woman has this like that sure the woman has this beautiful thing that gets secreted in beautiful thing that gets secreted in beautiful thing that gets secreted in her bloodstream the moment the baby's her bloodstream the moment the baby's her bloodstream the moment the baby's born that makes her love the baby and born that makes her love the baby and born that makes her love the baby and forget how painful it was otherwise I forget how painful it was otherwise I forget how painful it was otherwise I think every woman would have one baby think every woman would have one baby think every woman would have one baby and no more yeah and honestly I don't and no more yeah and honestly I don't and no more yeah and honestly I don't know that I could know that I could know that I could go through what it took to start our go through what it took to start our go through what it took to start our church and without that Inferno of 5:30 church and without that Inferno of 5:30 church and without that Inferno of 5:30 a.m. Cowboys of Mesa maybe I could um a.m. Cowboys of Mesa maybe I could um a.m. Cowboys of Mesa maybe I could um but I I it it took a certain sense of but I I it it took a certain sense of but I I it it took a certain sense of like fearlessness and and Moxy and I

like fearlessness and and Moxy and I like fearlessness and and Moxy and I think that's part of the Young The Young think that's part of the Young The Young think that's part of the Young The Young Person's game that's basketball lacrosse Person's game that's basketball lacrosse Person's game that's basketball lacrosse is second half of life it's realizing is second half of life it's realizing is second half of life it's realizing the how finite life is um it's it's it's the how finite life is um it's it's it's the how finite life is um it's it's it's it's learning to Value whole different it's learning to Value whole different it's learning to Value whole different sets of things which is where I'm at sets of things which is where I'm at sets of things which is where I'm at today and I think the struggle was I was today and I think the struggle was I was today and I think the struggle was I was continuing to try at that Tipping Point continuing to try at that Tipping Point continuing to try at that Tipping Point to approach life much like I had when I to approach life much like I had when I to approach life much like I had when I was playing basketball I didn't even was playing basketball I didn't even was playing basketball I didn't even know it yet because the the Ronald Riser know it yet because the the Ronald Riser know it yet because the the Ronald Riser quote is uh success will still feel quote is uh success will still feel quote is uh success will still feel great in the second half of life it just great in the second half of life it just great in the second half of life it just has less to teach you and so I think I has less to teach you and so I think I has less to teach you and so I think I was at a place where I needed to begin was at a place where I needed to begin was at a place where I needed to begin to utilize crystallized wisdom and and to utilize crystallized wisdom and and to utilize crystallized wisdom and and teach leaders and you know value teach leaders and you know value teach leaders and you know value significance but I I hadn't had the significance but I I hadn't had the significance but I I hadn't had the lacrosse scoreboard installed yet and no lacrosse scoreboard installed yet and no lacrosse scoreboard installed yet and no one was was teaching me those things um one was was teaching me those things um one was was teaching me those things um and I think you know my dad for all of and I think you know my dad for all of and I think you know my dad for all of his his his virtues very much tried to live till the virtues very much tried to live till the virtues very much tried to live till the last breath of his life like he was you last breath of his life like he was you last breath of his life like he was you know the young Warrior and and and know the young Warrior and and and know the young Warrior and and and didn't he didn't WR or wrong no one gave didn't he didn't WR or wrong no one gave didn't he didn't WR or wrong no one gave it to him um helped me have a a road map it to him um helped me have a a road map it to him um helped me have a a road map for the seasons of Life of young man for the seasons of Life of young man for the seasons of Life of young man Warrior father Elder and eventually sage Warrior father Elder and eventually sage Warrior father Elder and eventually sage and I think our culture and in in and I think our culture and in in and I think our culture and in in paradigms often don't paradigms often don't paradigms often don't have uh a roadmap for puberty and right have uh a roadmap for puberty and right have uh a roadmap for puberty and right of passage much less a second right of

of passage much less a second right of of passage much less a second right of passage at midlife and hey here's what passage at midlife and hey here's what passage at midlife and hey here's what this is gonna be like this is gonna this is gonna be like this is gonna this is gonna be like this is gonna happen to everybody because by the way happen to everybody because by the way happen to everybody because by the way like the statistics on quarter life um like the statistics on quarter life um like the statistics on quarter life um midlife later life are are almost midlife later life are are almost midlife later life are are almost everyone's going to to face one of those everyone's going to to face one of those everyone's going to to face one of those transition crises whether it's when your transition crises whether it's when your transition crises whether it's when your kids I have a good friend whose wife kids I have a good friend whose wife kids I have a good friend whose wife kind of fell to Pieces the moment their kind of fell to Pieces the moment their kind of fell to Pieces the moment their oldest kid graduated high school yeah it oldest kid graduated high school yeah it oldest kid graduated high school yeah it was an empty nest what is that that's a was an empty nest what is that that's a was an empty nest what is that that's a later life crisis so and and no one had later life crisis so and and no one had later life crisis so and and no one had told me hey just so you know almost told me hey just so you know almost told me hey just so you know almost every person and and specifically men every person and and specifically men every person and and specifically men find between 38 and 42 some sort of wall find between 38 and 42 some sort of wall find between 38 and 42 some sort of wall you're G to hit and so I ran blindly you're G to hit and so I ran blindly you're G to hit and so I ran blindly into the wall without any context for it into the wall without any context for it into the wall without any context for it yeah and that has come up so often on yeah and that has come up so often on yeah and that has come up so often on this podcast 700 some odd episodes in this podcast 700 some odd episodes in this podcast 700 some odd episodes in that 38 to 42 mine was at 41 yours was that 38 to 42 mine was at 41 yours was that 38 to 42 mine was at 41 yours was at 38 when you think about that summer at 38 when you think about that summer at 38 when you think about that summer May to August walk us through loss of May to August walk us through loss of May to August walk us through loss of motivation anxiety panic motivation anxiety panic motivation anxiety panic attacks what was it like being around attacks what was it like being around attacks what was it like being around you what was it like for Jenny for the you what was it like for Jenny for the you what was it like for Jenny for the kids for your team what kind of Levi kids for your team what kind of Levi kids for your team what kind of Levi would they have experienced that summer um shaken for sure um I was I was summer um shaken for sure um I was I was aware of the level of sharing I could do aware of the level of sharing I could do aware of the level of sharing I could do that was appropriate because I'm a firm that was appropriate because I'm a firm that was appropriate because I'm a firm believer in the concept that you should believer in the concept that you should believer in the concept that you should show your healed show your healed show your healed scars and heal privately your bloody scars and heal privately your bloody scars and heal privately your bloody wounds yes so you were not going to get wounds yes so you were not going to get wounds yes so you were not going to get me on the stage you know hey guys I was

me on the stage you know hey guys I was me on the stage you know hey guys I was just in a puddle weeping on the floor just in a puddle weeping on the floor just in a puddle weeping on the floor not even sure if I'll be here tomorrow not even sure if I'll be here tomorrow not even sure if I'll be here tomorrow but let's get to Genesis chapter 12 you but let's get to Genesis chapter 12 you but let's get to Genesis chapter 12 you know what I mean like there's a certain know what I mean like there's a certain know what I mean like there's a certain amount of healthy compartmentalization amount of healthy compartmentalization amount of healthy compartmentalization there can be unhealthy there can be unhealthy there can be unhealthy compartmentalization but you know you compartmentalization but you know you compartmentalization but you know you don't want to Pastor up there like hey don't want to Pastor up there like hey don't want to Pastor up there like hey my wife and I were in a vicious fight my wife and I were in a vicious fight my wife and I were in a vicious fight we'll see if we're still here together a we'll see if we're still here together a we'll see if we're still here together a year from now you know what I mean like year from now you know what I mean like year from now you know what I mean like you want to you want to to to some you want to you want to to to some you want to you want to to to some healthy degree Keep Calm and Carry On healthy degree Keep Calm and Carry On healthy degree Keep Calm and Carry On And The Show Must Go On Now someone's And The Show Must Go On Now someone's And The Show Must Go On Now someone's GNA pick that phrase up and like he's GNA pick that phrase up and like he's GNA pick that phrase up and like he's calling Ministry a show come on I'm just calling Ministry a show come on I'm just calling Ministry a show come on I'm just using language that says we got to B using language that says we got to B using language that says we got to B down the hatches to some degree to get down the hatches to some degree to get down the hatches to some degree to get through our storms so you were still through our storms so you were still through our storms so you were still preaching you picked it up after Jenny I preaching you picked it up after Jenny I preaching you picked it up after Jenny I had to because after jny series was over had to because after jny series was over had to because after jny series was over um and we could talk about how how um and we could talk about how how um and we could talk about how how challenging her and I getting on the challenging her and I getting on the challenging her and I getting on the right sync was yeah I do talk about that right sync was yeah I do talk about that right sync was yeah I do talk about that because we we did worse then than when because we we did worse then than when because we we did worse then than when lenya died really so you lost a child lenya died really so you lost a child lenya died really so you lost a child but your your midlife crisis pushed your but your your midlife crisis pushed your but your your midlife crisis pushed your marriage to the marriage to the marriage to the brink to a ex exceeding degree because brink to a ex exceeding degree because brink to a ex exceeding degree because what were the Dynamics yeah because well what were the Dynamics yeah because well what were the Dynamics yeah because well Jenny and I we we we we we grieved on Jenny and I we we we we we grieved on Jenny and I we we we we we grieved on very similar wavelengths with lenya so very similar wavelengths with lenya so very similar wavelengths with lenya so we if I was weak we she was strong if we if I was weak we she was strong if we if I was weak we she was strong if she was weak I was strong there was very she was weak I was strong there was very she was weak I was strong there was very few times where we were exactly having few times where we were exactly having few times where we were exactly having the same day with each other so I'd be the same day with each other so I'd be the same day with each other so I'd be holding her while she's crying and vice holding her while she's crying and vice holding her while she's crying and vice versa and with this because it was so versa and with this because it was so versa and with this because it was so Uncharted and inexplicable it took me a Uncharted and inexplicable it took me a Uncharted and inexplicable it took me a long time to really even realize part of

long time to really even realize part of long time to really even realize part of it was patterns I so I didn't have it was patterns I so I didn't have it was patterns I so I didn't have language like why why am I crying in a language like why why am I crying in a language like why why am I crying in a hot mess and why am I why do I have no hot mess and why am I why do I have no hot mess and why am I why do I have no why and why you know why am I why and why you know why am I why and why you know why am I questioning everything I couldn't say to questioning everything I couldn't say to questioning everything I couldn't say to her oh this is because of sixth grade her oh this is because of sixth grade her oh this is because of sixth grade and so I think to some degree it led to and so I think to some degree it led to and so I think to some degree it led to a defensiveness on my a defensiveness on my a defensiveness on my part and a arms length with her and the part and a arms length with her and the part and a arms length with her and the kids to some degree because a fear of kids to some degree because a fear of kids to some degree because a fear of getting hurt that I didn't know I had my getting hurt that I didn't know I had my getting hurt that I didn't know I had my way of dealing with trauma was Walling way of dealing with trauma was Walling way of dealing with trauma was Walling up and if I can sense you're going to up and if I can sense you're going to up and if I can sense you're going to hurt me I'll push you away before you hurt me I'll push you away before you hurt me I'll push you away before you can I called our board and I I got got can I called our board and I I got got can I called our board and I I got got made sure they knew about everything and made sure they knew about everything and made sure they knew about everything and they were like hey whatever you need to they were like hey whatever you need to they were like hey whatever you need to do so I had to to some degree I've do so I had to to some degree I've do so I had to to some degree I've always really delegated a lot of the always really delegated a lot of the always really delegated a lot of the organizational aspect that's not my organizational aspect that's not my organizational aspect that's not my forte anyway so our organization you forte anyway so our organization you forte anyway so our organization you know didn't really skip too much of a know didn't really skip too much of a know didn't really skip too much of a beat because I'm I'm very selective beat because I'm I'm very selective beat because I'm I'm very selective about you know how much I need to have about you know how much I need to have about you know how much I need to have approval on and a my signature and eyes approval on and a my signature and eyes approval on and a my signature and eyes on so you know I'm still studying and on so you know I'm still studying and on so you know I'm still studying and preaching it's just was harder for me so preaching it's just was harder for me so preaching it's just was harder for me so I think you you probably would have I think you you probably would have I think you you probably would have sensed there was there was some you know sensed there was there was some you know sensed there was there was some you know if I go back and watch those teachings if I go back and watch those teachings if I go back and watch those teachings from that era I can see it yeah but you from that era I can see it yeah but you from that era I can see it yeah but you know you know I still believe what I was know you know I still believe what I was know you know I still believe what I was preaching was true you know the mistake preaching was true you know the mistake preaching was true you know the mistake car make people make I think is when car make people make I think is when car make people make I think is when they make big decisions in the middle of they make big decisions in the middle of they make big decisions in the middle of a a a storm yes yeah for me it was like don't storm yes yeah for me it was like don't storm yes yeah for me it was like don't quit your day job don't have an affair quit your day job don't have an affair quit your day job don't have an affair don't buy a sports car those were the my

don't buy a sports car those were the my don't buy a sports car those were the my calling is bigger than my current calling is bigger than my current calling is bigger than my current Challenge and I've always believed that Challenge and I've always believed that Challenge and I've always believed that so I'm going to keep rowing to the other so I'm going to keep rowing to the other so I'm going to keep rowing to the other side CU Jesus said go to the other side side CU Jesus said go to the other side side CU Jesus said go to the other side and not in the middle stop and go we're and not in the middle stop and go we're and not in the middle stop and go we're going to die so I think there was some going to die so I think there was some going to die so I think there was some sense of that in me and I was getting sense of that in me and I was getting sense of that in me and I was getting eyes you know good wisdom from people eyes you know good wisdom from people eyes you know good wisdom from people going hey just keep rowing keep going hey just keep rowing keep going hey just keep rowing keep preaching keep leading you're gonna get preaching keep leading you're gonna get preaching keep leading you're gonna get through this two shall pass to some through this two shall pass to some through this two shall pass to some degree and so I'm really grateful for degree and so I'm really grateful for degree and so I'm really grateful for that because I could have made some that because I could have made some that because I could have made some awful decision there how did you and awful decision there how did you and awful decision there how did you and Jenny navigate that get through that Jenny navigate that get through that Jenny navigate that get through that season a lot of time a lot of prayer a season a lot of time a lot of prayer a season a lot of time a lot of prayer a lot of counseling both joint and lot of counseling both joint and lot of counseling both joint and separately we both did um continued to separately we both did um continued to separately we both did um continued to meet with our marriage counselor and meet with our marriage counselor and meet with our marriage counselor and then I also began meeting with a then I also began meeting with a then I also began meeting with a psychologist I met with my doctor I psychologist I met with my doctor I psychologist I met with my doctor I looked at every substance I was putting looked at every substance I was putting looked at every substance I was putting into my body and evaluated it from from into my body and evaluated it from from into my body and evaluated it from from the Pre-Workout to you know how much the Pre-Workout to you know how much the Pre-Workout to you know how much coffee to how much rest to alcohol to coffee to how much rest to alcohol to coffee to how much rest to alcohol to other caffeine and then um gave myself other caffeine and then um gave myself other caffeine and then um gave myself permission to not land at 9:00 a.m. on a permission to not land at 9:00 a.m. on a permission to not land at 9:00 a.m. on a red eyee preach at 2 beyond the 700 p.m.

red eyee preach at 2 beyond the 700 p.m. red eyee preach at 2 beyond the 700 p.m. on the advice of a counselor uh you'll on the advice of a counselor uh you'll on the advice of a counselor uh you'll notice like you you saw us like I would notice like you you saw us like I would notice like you you saw us like I would get in the day before have have Leisure get in the day before have have Leisure get in the day before have have Leisure on the day and on the thing afterwards on the day and on the thing afterwards on the day and on the thing afterwards I'm gonna say no more to the ancillary I'm gonna say no more to the ancillary I'm gonna say no more to the ancillary dinner you know what I mean it would be dinner you know what I mean it would be dinner you know what I mean it would be nice to see you totally reading my mail nice to see you totally reading my mail nice to see you totally reading my mail on that one yeah it's like because yeah on that one yeah it's like because yeah on that one yeah it's like because yeah you have to have margin in your life you you have to have margin in your life you you have to have margin in your life you have to take care of yourself and uh have to take care of yourself and uh have to take care of yourself and uh anything else on that season of your anything else on that season of your anything else on that season of your life that you think you want to talk life that you think you want to talk life that you think you want to talk about or that would be helpful for about or that would be helpful for about or that would be helpful for leaders listen leaders listen leaders listen yeah um it always holistically looking at and um it always holistically looking at and connecting the dots on what got me into connecting the dots on what got me into connecting the dots on what got me into that what what we needed to change to that what what we needed to change to that what what we needed to change to not build for one when I turned 50 or 60 not build for one when I turned 50 or 60 not build for one when I turned 50 or 60 to have to to have the lacrosse to have to to have the lacrosse to have to to have the lacrosse scoreboard involved right to understand scoreboard involved right to understand scoreboard involved right to understand the season of life I was in the one I the season of life I was in the one I the season of life I was in the one I was heading into and then even having a was heading into and then even having a was heading into and then even having a level of excitement for the one coming level of excitement for the one coming level of excitement for the one coming after that um all the way to stepp into after that um all the way to stepp into after that um all the way to stepp into life meeting Jesus I think life meeting Jesus I think life meeting Jesus I think the the shame that sometimes we put on the the shame that sometimes we put on the the shame that sometimes we put on needing medicine I had to deal with needing medicine I had to deal with needing medicine I had to deal with because for a time I had to keep Xanax because for a time I had to keep Xanax because for a time I had to keep Xanax around if I had a panic attack to at around if I had a panic attack to at around if I had a panic attack to at least dull the level of alarms going off least dull the level of alarms going off least dull the level of alarms going off in my in my in my head and I didn't take anything ongoing head and I didn't take anything ongoing head and I didn't take anything ongoing after that but I if I would have I would after that but I if I would have I would after that but I if I would have I would have been H happy to do so and I think have been H happy to do so and I think have been H happy to do so and I think giving Jenny permission because she and giving Jenny permission because she and giving Jenny permission because she and I won't speak for her because she was I won't speak for her because she was I won't speak for her because she was going through something similar but going through something similar but going through something similar but different as a a woman turning 38 mhm

different as a a woman turning 38 mhm different as a a woman turning 38 mhm that made it challenging for us because that made it challenging for us because that made it challenging for us because there was one moment where I was like there was one moment where I was like there was one moment where I was like having this panic attack crying and I having this panic attack crying and I having this panic attack crying and I just said Jenny like I need you right just said Jenny like I need you right just said Jenny like I need you right now and she said and this is what scared now and she said and this is what scared now and she said and this is what scared me I don't have anything to give you and me I don't have anything to give you and me I don't have anything to give you and I think we both looked at each other and I think we both looked at each other and I think we both looked at each other and we neither of us had any spare bandwidth we neither of us had any spare bandwidth we neither of us had any spare bandwidth to to to lend and so I think that scared me a lot lend and so I think that scared me a lot lend and so I think that scared me a lot yeah and so we both took the time that yeah and so we both took the time that yeah and so we both took the time that we needed to process with Community with we needed to process with Community with we needed to process with Community with with physical with physical with physical mental emotional and spiritual holistic mental emotional and spiritual holistic mental emotional and spiritual holistic um healing and then began to to move um healing and then began to to move um healing and then began to to move forward from there so I guess I would forward from there so I guess I would forward from there so I guess I would just say you have to be patient with just say you have to be patient with just say you have to be patient with yourself you have to be patient with yourself you have to be patient with yourself you have to be patient with other people but when I hit because the other people but when I hit because the other people but when I hit because the first panic attack was um like May first panic attack was um like May first panic attack was um like May fourth of 2020 when I got to my birthday fourth of 2020 when I got to my birthday fourth of 2020 when I got to my birthday May 7th 2021 I've never been one to May 7th 2021 I've never been one to May 7th 2021 I've never been one to throw birthday parties for myself but I throw birthday parties for myself but I throw birthday parties for myself but I told Jenny I was I wasn't done with it told Jenny I was I wasn't done with it told Jenny I was I wasn't done with it it took two full years I would say was it took two full years I would say was it took two full years I would say was the whole period the worst of it was the whole period the worst of it was the whole period the worst of it was that first summer but when I got to my that first summer but when I got to my that first summer but when I got to my birthday and I was starting to see light birthday and I was starting to see light birthday and I was starting to see light at the end of that tunnel I was still at the end of that tunnel I was still at the end of that tunnel I was still shaky actually I remember um feeling shaky actually I remember um feeling shaky actually I remember um feeling like maybe I would have a slight panic like maybe I would have a slight panic like maybe I would have a slight panic attack right before I gave this little attack right before I gave this little attack right before I gave this little speech at my birthday party but I got up speech at my birthday party but I got up speech at my birthday party but I got up and I bought a special Hawaiian shirt and I bought a special Hawaiian shirt and I bought a special Hawaiian shirt and I was like I had my friends there and I was like I had my friends there and I was like I had my friends there and family there and I just I said I and family there and I just I said I and family there and I just I said I just wanted to just praise God because just wanted to just praise God because just wanted to just praise God because I'm I'm here a year ago everything I'm I'm here a year ago everything I'm I'm here a year ago everything looked uncertain and and I'm here I'm looked uncertain and and I'm here I'm looked uncertain and and I'm here I'm I'm I've got the Light of Christ in my I'm I've got the Light of Christ in my I'm I've got the Light of Christ in my eyes I've got I'm starting to see eyes I've got I'm starting to see eyes I've got I'm starting to see motivation again I'm starting to realate motivation again I'm starting to realate motivation again I'm starting to realate see a path forward you know and I just I

see a path forward you know and I just I see a path forward you know and I just I I I would say celebrate the small things I I would say celebrate the small things I I would say celebrate the small things for me that was a big v a big win to get for me that was a big v a big win to get for me that was a big v a big win to get to to this year and to be here and to to to this year and to be here and to to to this year and to be here and to feel better and I think it it overturns feel better and I think it it overturns feel better and I think it it overturns associations I refused to let my bedroom associations I refused to let my bedroom associations I refused to let my bedroom Remain the Devils because in that season Remain the Devils because in that season Remain the Devils because in that season it felt like he was taking my Sanctuary it felt like he was taking my Sanctuary it felt like he was taking my Sanctuary from me my and so I I just kind of like from me my and so I I just kind of like from me my and so I I just kind of like the perfume poured out that made the the perfume poured out that made the the perfume poured out that made the prostitute smell the the smell of that prostitute smell the the smell of that prostitute smell the the smell of that Essence differently because it's now Essence differently because it's now Essence differently because it's now associated with Jesus's feet not just associated with Jesus's feet not just associated with Jesus's feet not just some man who's taking something from her some man who's taking something from her some man who's taking something from her choosing to overturn those associations choosing to overturn those associations choosing to overturn those associations helped me and I would encourage others helped me and I would encourage others helped me and I would encourage others to do the same you just glanced off it to do the same you just glanced off it to do the same you just glanced off it twice but suicidal IDE twice but suicidal IDE twice but suicidal IDE ideation what what happened there it's ideation what what happened there it's ideation what what happened there it's different than intention I'm told different than intention I'm told different than intention I'm told suicidal intention looks like I want to suicidal intention looks like I want to suicidal intention looks like I want to kill myself I hate life that was me in kill myself I hate life that was me in kill myself I hate life that was me in sixth grade intention I actually began sixth grade intention I actually began sixth grade intention I actually began to think about it um to think about it um to think about it um ideation is a form of anxiety that incorrectly is prophesying a future that incorrectly is prophesying a future you're afraid of afraid I'm gonna run you're afraid of afraid I'm gonna run you're afraid of afraid I'm gonna run out of money we're gonna have a stock out of money we're gonna have a stock out of money we're gonna have a stock market whatever like that's anxiety I'm market whatever like that's anxiety I'm market whatever like that's anxiety I'm afraid Something's Gonna Happ my afraid Something's Gonna Happ my afraid Something's Gonna Happ my daughter driving to school that's daughter driving to school that's daughter driving to school that's anxiety you're you're you're you're anxiety you're you're you're you're anxiety you're you're you're you're creating a future that you're scared of creating a future that you're scared of creating a future that you're scared of my greatest fear having someone like my my greatest fear having someone like my my greatest fear having someone like my mom hurt me so young got pushed to my mom hurt me so young got pushed to my mom hurt me so young got pushed to my dad got pushed to the next youth pastor dad got pushed to the next youth pastor dad got pushed to the next youth pastor got pushed to the next mentor the got pushed to the next mentor the got pushed to the next mentor the inevitable conclusion was if someone's inevitable conclusion was if someone's inevitable conclusion was if someone's going to hurt me I have to push them going to hurt me I have to push them going to hurt me I have to push them away so that I don't get

away so that I don't get away so that I don't get hurt and who greater to let me down and hurt and who greater to let me down and hurt and who greater to let me down and hurt me than hurt me than hurt me than me and so my fears of myself taking my me and so my fears of myself taking my me and so my fears of myself taking my life and now imagining in every Vivid life and now imagining in every Vivid life and now imagining in every Vivid way possible during my way possible during my way possible during my um first panic attack I had this vision um first panic attack I had this vision um first panic attack I had this vision of me hanging from the TRX drops in my of me hanging from the TRX drops in my of me hanging from the TRX drops in my gym by my neck and it was like I could gym by my neck and it was like I could gym by my neck and it was like I could visually see it and I'm trying to argue visually see it and I'm trying to argue visually see it and I'm trying to argue with myself going no I would never do with myself going no I would never do with myself going no I would never do that I love my life I love my wife I that I love my life I love my wife I that I love my life I love my wife I love I would do that would harm every love I would do that would harm every love I would do that would harm every person I've led to faith in Christ every person I've led to faith in Christ every person I've led to faith in Christ every person who's ever read a book how how person who's ever read a book how how person who's ever read a book how how how much Dam and and that gets me even how much Dam and and that gets me even how much Dam and and that gets me even revved up more and it's almost this revved up more and it's almost this revved up more and it's almost this image of I'm gonna let myself down so image of I'm gonna let myself down so image of I'm gonna let myself down so now I need to protect myself from me and now I need to protect myself from me and now I need to protect myself from me and so in understanding why that was so in understanding why that was so in understanding why that was happening my tactic changed from trying happening my tactic changed from trying happening my tactic changed from trying to argue with me that I would never do to argue with me that I would never do to argue with me that I would never do that to me and by the way my first youth that to me and by the way my first youth that to me and by the way my first youth pastor committed suicide another thing pastor committed suicide another thing pastor committed suicide another thing that came up in that came up in that came up in counseling my very first Middle High counseling my very first Middle High counseling my very first Middle High School Middle School youth pastor took School Middle School youth pastor took School Middle School youth pastor took his life so um that's partially there his life so um that's partially there his life so um that's partially there too and I I discovered that in in too and I I discovered that in in too and I I discovered that in in therapy I had even thought about that in therapy I had even thought about that in therapy I had even thought about that in forever and I actually had to call up forever and I actually had to call up forever and I actually had to call up the guy who told me about it and like the guy who told me about it and like the guy who told me about it and like process it with him to get closure on process it with him to get closure on process it with him to get closure on that Loop hey when you told me about it that Loop hey when you told me about it that Loop hey when you told me about it because I was I was already back in high because I was I was already back in high because I was I was already back in high school but he was my Middle School uh school but he was my Middle School uh school but he was my Middle School uh Pastor so instead of arguing with me I Pastor so instead of arguing with me I Pastor so instead of arguing with me I put my hand on my shoulder and go hey put my hand on my shoulder and go hey put my hand on my shoulder and go hey man man man um that's so scary that you're thinking um that's so scary that you're thinking um that's so scary that you're thinking that but of of course that's scary you

that but of of course that's scary you that but of of course that's scary you and and no you wouldn't so it's okay and and no you wouldn't so it's okay and and no you wouldn't so it's okay that you feel scared right now what else that you feel scared right now what else that you feel scared right now what else is under this because it was usually not is under this because it was usually not is under this because it was usually not connected to that it was something else connected to that it was something else connected to that it was something else I was nervous about and that agitation I was nervous about and that agitation I was nervous about and that agitation that at one point was turning up sexual that at one point was turning up sexual that at one point was turning up sexual desire for for numbing was now making me desire for for numbing was now making me desire for for numbing was now making me just feel better to bite the canker sore just feel better to bite the canker sore just feel better to bite the canker sore of this fear and so it's like let's just of this fear and so it's like let's just of this fear and so it's like let's just like let's not go on Instagram let's not like let's not go on Instagram let's not like let's not go on Instagram let's not go on Amazon and buy something something go on Amazon and buy something something go on Amazon and buy something something let's not worry about suicide or look at let's not worry about suicide or look at let's not worry about suicide or look at porn let's like oh you're right I'm just porn let's like oh you're right I'm just porn let's like oh you're right I'm just frustrated you know what I mean like frustrated you know what I mean like frustrated you know what I mean like just it was the thing under the thing you lost your Dad thing you lost your Dad recently kind of skipping ahead a little recently kind of skipping ahead a little recently kind of skipping ahead a little bit what was what was the impact on you bit what was what was the impact on you bit what was what was the impact on you and I mean I kind of tracked a bit on and I mean I kind of tracked a bit on and I mean I kind of tracked a bit on social media with that uh my dad's still social media with that uh my dad's still social media with that uh my dad's still alive I've got a lot of friends who have alive I've got a lot of friends who have alive I've got a lot of friends who have lost a parent um it's got to be so lost a parent um it's got to be so lost a parent um it's got to be so difficult and I'm so sorry thank you um difficult and I'm so sorry thank you um difficult and I'm so sorry thank you um I'm so grateful I'm so grateful I'm so grateful Carrie that I had the chance for a couple years that I had the chance for a couple years to do all this deep work prior to his to do all this deep work prior to his to do all this deep work prior to his it's just crazy how it all unfolded I it's just crazy how it all unfolded I it's just crazy how it all unfolded I finished the manuscript for this finished the manuscript for this finished the manuscript for this book and one year to the day of book and one year to the day of book and one year to the day of finishing the manuscript he was finishing the manuscript he was finishing the manuscript he was diagnosed with cancer two years to the diagnosed with cancer two years to the diagnosed with cancer two years to the day I finished the book he was in heaven day I finished the book he was in heaven day I finished the book he was in heaven and so I had closed a book on my next

and so I had closed a book on my next and so I had closed a book on my next season of life and my next Evolution as season of life and my next Evolution as season of life and my next Evolution as a as a human in growth in spiraling in a as a human in growth in spiraling in a as a human in growth in spiraling in seasons in midlife and it all now seasons in midlife and it all now seasons in midlife and it all now becomes Echoes with my father who's this becomes Echoes with my father who's this becomes Echoes with my father who's this formative figure of my life who goes to formative figure of my life who goes to formative figure of my life who goes to be with Christ and so um I had the be with Christ and so um I had the be with Christ and so um I had the chance after dealing with all those chance after dealing with all those chance after dealing with all those things to have some really hard things to have some really hard things to have some really hard conversations with him that were healing conversations with him that were healing conversations with him that were healing for both of us and it it put me at a for both of us and it it put me at a for both of us and it it put me at a perspective to appreciate without perspective to appreciate without perspective to appreciate without idolizing or demonizing idolizing or demonizing idolizing or demonizing him the journeys of life and talking him the journeys of life and talking him the journeys of life and talking through and he he made me the executor through and he he made me the executor through and he he made me the executor of his will and I got to walk with him of his will and I got to walk with him of his will and I got to walk with him it was a great honor to walk with him it was a great honor to walk with him it was a great honor to walk with him through those difficult days you know my through those difficult days you know my through those difficult days you know my dad moaning in my dad moaning in my dad moaning in my arms arms arms apologizing for me being put out out by apologizing for me being put out out by apologizing for me being put out out by having to hold him but then him having to hold him but then him having to hold him but then him squirming and trying to say I don't know squirming and trying to say I don't know squirming and trying to say I don't know what to do I don't know what to do and what to do I don't know what to do and what to do I don't know what to do and crying and the chemo sickness and you crying and the chemo sickness and you crying and the chemo sickness and you know the pain medication not working and know the pain medication not working and know the pain medication not working and it was it was very hard to watch him it was it was very hard to watch him it was it was very hard to watch him melt in front of me in that year but melt in front of me in that year but melt in front of me in that year but also because I was at a more healed also because I was at a more healed also because I was at a more healed place I think I was able to appreciate place I think I was able to appreciate place I think I was able to appreciate the beauty of what he was teaching me the beauty of what he was teaching me the beauty of what he was teaching me even as he left this world it was it was even as he left this world it was it was even as he left this world it was it was another Echo another another Spiral up another Echo another another Spiral up another Echo another another Spiral up not down and because I really do believe not down and because I really do believe not down and because I really do believe just so we can spiral down we always say just so we can spiral down we always say just so we can spiral down we always say that the big message of the book is that that the big message of the book is that that the big message of the book is that you don't just have to spiral down you you don't just have to spiral down you you don't just have to spiral down you can spiral up and there's praise in your

can spiral up and there's praise in your can spiral up and there's praise in your Spirals and there's growth in your Spirals and there's growth in your Spirals and there's growth in your Spirals and there's development and so Spirals and there's development and so Spirals and there's development and so I've I I'm I'm still to this day I've I I'm I'm still to this day I've I I'm I'm still to this day mourning the loss of my father I think mourning the loss of my father I think mourning the loss of my father I think about him every day I I used to call him about him every day I I used to call him about him every day I I used to call him every single day and so losing that every single day and so losing that every single day and so losing that friendship that I had with him has been friendship that I had with him has been friendship that I had with him has been very challenging but it also um has just very challenging but it also um has just very challenging but it also um has just given a new meaning to the mission which given a new meaning to the mission which given a new meaning to the mission which is for me now the significance of is for me now the significance of is for me now the significance of sharing my scars and helping other sharing my scars and helping other sharing my scars and helping other people and not just success you people and not just success you people and not just success you know you know you do mention in the book know you know you do mention in the book know you know you do mention in the book getting older that this is the Apex of getting older that this is the Apex of getting older that this is the Apex of your life 40 you know maybe I'll live 80 your life 40 you know maybe I'll live 80 your life 40 you know maybe I'll live 80 we never know how long we're going to we never know how long we're going to we never know how long we're going to live uh but you talk about Decline and live uh but you talk about Decline and live uh but you talk about Decline and you know I read pretty widely lots of you know I read pretty widely lots of you know I read pretty widely lots of conversations not a lot of people talk conversations not a lot of people talk conversations not a lot of people talk about decline and I by the time this about decline and I by the time this about decline and I by the time this airs will have had a big birthday this airs will have had a big birthday this airs will have had a big birthday this year and I'm like oh yeah 60 is year and I'm like oh yeah 60 is year and I'm like oh yeah 60 is different than 50 is different than 40 different than 50 is different than 40 different than 50 is different than 40 and you know you're just you feel and you know you're just you feel and you know you're just you feel differently inside on the one hand I differently inside on the one hand I differently inside on the one hand I feel great on the other hand yeah feel great on the other hand yeah feel great on the other hand yeah clearly I'm six decades into this thing clearly I'm six decades into this thing clearly I'm six decades into this thing how do how do how do you how has going through all of this you how has going through all of this you how has going through all of this over the last four or five years made over the last four or five years made over the last four or five years made you rethink Aging in the season of life you rethink Aging in the season of life you rethink Aging in the season of life that you're in it was said at some point um I can't it was said at some point um I can't recall where I first came across it life recall where I first came across it life recall where I first came across it life is three is three is three seasons three containers the first

seasons three containers the first seasons three containers the first you're trying to build a container the you're trying to build a container the you're trying to build a container the second you need to fill your container second you need to fill your container second you need to fill your container and the third you have to prepare to and the third you have to prepare to and the third you have to prepare to both give the container and its contents both give the container and its contents both give the container and its contents away wow so if you think about life like away wow so if you think about life like away wow so if you think about life like Alexander the Great did which is just Alexander the Great did which is just Alexander the Great did which is just how big can my kingdom be you're trying how big can my kingdom be you're trying how big can my kingdom be you're trying to live endlessly in the in the first to live endlessly in the in the first to live endlessly in the in the first container it's got to be bigger bigger container it's got to be bigger bigger container it's got to be bigger bigger bigger so many leaders are there dude so bigger so many leaders are there dude so bigger so many leaders are there dude so many leaders are many leaders are many leaders are there how many 72 and still trying to there how many 72 and still trying to there how many 72 and still trying to prove yourself what are my podcast prove yourself what are my podcast prove yourself what are my podcast numbers what how big's my church and and numbers what how big's my church and and numbers what how big's my church and and then you can die in the Pulpit like that then you can die in the Pulpit like that then you can die in the Pulpit like that gripping it you know like Alexander and gripping it you know like Alexander and gripping it you know like Alexander and what did he do Alexander cried at 33 what did he do Alexander cried at 33 what did he do Alexander cried at 33 because there was infinite worlds and he because there was infinite worlds and he because there was infinite worlds and he was only the Lord of one or or is bre or was only the Lord of one or or is bre or was only the Lord of one or or is bre or is it's quoted in Die Hard you know is it's quoted in Die Hard you know is it's quoted in Die Hard you know because he he conquered the whole world because he he conquered the whole world because he he conquered the whole world and there was nothing left to conquer and there was nothing left to conquer and there was nothing left to conquer which was Hans grber but not actually which was Hans grber but not actually which was Hans grber but not actually history not what happened um he said history not what happened um he said history not what happened um he said there was there was arist darkus who there was there was arist darkus who there was there was arist darkus who said there there's infinite worlds he said there there's infinite worlds he said there there's infinite worlds he had just been told there's more one more had just been told there's more one more had just been told there's more one more than one world and yet he said I'm only than one world and yet he said I'm only than one world and yet he said I'm only the Lord of one world because it 33 he the Lord of one world because it 33 he the Lord of one world because it 33 he had gone all the way to India you know had gone all the way to India you know had gone all the way to India you know reach the sea there was nothing you know reach the sea there was nothing you know reach the sea there was nothing you know it was so big but he he wanted to be the it was so big but he he wanted to be the it was so big but he he wanted to be the L Lord of a second world and so if you L Lord of a second world and so if you L Lord of a second world and so if you live like live like live like Alexander even if you pul even if you're Alexander even if you pul even if you're Alexander even if you pul even if you're you're whatever your kingdom is the you're whatever your kingdom is the you're whatever your kingdom is the Fitness Kingdom the insurance Kingdom I Fitness Kingdom the insurance Kingdom I Fitness Kingdom the insurance Kingdom I talked to a man once I shared this talked to a man once I shared this talked to a man once I shared this content at a men's gathering with very content at a men's gathering with very content at a men's gathering with very successful Executives VC big money you successful Executives VC big money you successful Executives VC big money you know lots of zeros in this room and this

know lots of zeros in this room and this know lots of zeros in this room and this man said to me I just sold a company and man said to me I just sold a company and man said to me I just sold a company and the moment I fixed my signature and it the moment I fixed my signature and it the moment I fixed my signature and it was notorized not my children not my was notorized not my children not my was notorized not my children not my children's children and not my children's children and not my children's children and not my children's children's children will ever children's children's children will ever children's children's children will ever have to want for money and I've never have to want for money and I've never have to want for money and I've never been more been more been more miserable with keeping over a kingdom miserable with keeping over a kingdom miserable with keeping over a kingdom you can't keep and how many men are you can't keep and how many men are you can't keep and how many men are failing to get to the second category or failing to get to the second category or failing to get to the second category or women where they have nothing in their women where they have nothing in their women where they have nothing in their big empty house they don't have big empty house they don't have big empty house they don't have relationships with their people because relationships with their people because relationships with their people because they just were working on season one so they just were working on season one so they just were working on season one so season two living is filling the season two living is filling the season two living is filling the container with people and with with with container with people and with with with container with people and with with with with with all the the the purpose that with with all the the the purpose that with with all the the the purpose that God has for you but then the neglected God has for you but then the neglected God has for you but then the neglected season is season 3 and it's I have to season is season 3 and it's I have to season is season 3 and it's I have to give this all away so even the people give this all away so even the people give this all away so even the people and the stuff in it and all of it's got and the stuff in it and all of it's got and the stuff in it and all of it's got to go back in the box cuz I'm going to to go back in the box cuz I'm going to to go back in the box cuz I'm going to die and I think we fail to a accept and die and I think we fail to a accept and die and I think we fail to a accept and and and and and and B have a plan for and and and and and B have a plan for and and and and and B have a plan for that 72% of Americans don't have a will that 72% of Americans don't have a will that 72% of Americans don't have a will in Testament whoa seriously that means in Testament whoa seriously that means in Testament whoa seriously that means there's no everything's ending in there's no everything's ending in there's no everything's ending in Probate and I like to joke with people I Probate and I like to joke with people I Probate and I like to joke with people I go hey who's gonna if you have young go hey who's gonna if you have young go hey who's gonna if you have young kids that are minors who's gonna want kids that are minors who's gonna want kids that are minors who's gonna want have your kids if uh if you die if you have your kids if uh if you die if you have your kids if uh if you die if you both die and they always go my aunt or both die and they always go my aunt or both die and they always go my aunt or my mom my and I go no no no stop stop my mom my and I go no no no stop stop my mom my and I go no no no stop stop the courts will decide the courts will decide the courts will decide that you won't you'll have abdicated the that you won't you'll have abdicated the that you won't you'll have abdicated the one decision that will be the final one decision that will be the final one decision that will be the final decision you make for them just make a decision you make for them just make a decision you make for them just make a will will will bro yeah so um what's that if if I'm bro yeah so um what's that if if I'm bro yeah so um what's that if if I'm trying to live like I'm not getting to trying to live like I'm not getting to trying to live like I'm not getting to season 3 and then I think in our go in season 3 and then I think in our go in season 3 and then I think in our go in our culture Carrie there's this other

our culture Carrie there's this other our culture Carrie there's this other weird thing have you heard of the weird thing have you heard of the weird thing have you heard of the financial Independence retire early financial Independence retire early financial Independence retire early thing oh fire yeah totally get a million thing oh fire yeah totally get a million thing oh fire yeah totally get a million in the bank by 30 and and go straight to in the bank by 30 and and go straight to in the bank by 30 and and go straight to season season season 2 instead of getting a bigger container 2 instead of getting a bigger container 2 instead of getting a bigger container and using the fire in your belly to and using the fire in your belly to and using the fire in your belly to scale that company and it's a mistake scale that company and it's a mistake scale that company and it's a mistake because this this like freelance you because this this like freelance you because this this like freelance you know dirt bagger living at Van like I know dirt bagger living at Van like I know dirt bagger living at Van like I don't need to who who that's actually don't need to who who that's actually don't need to who who that's actually missing out on the chance to build missing out on the chance to build missing out on the chance to build something to the glory of God if you're something to the glory of God if you're something to the glory of God if you're called to do it so there is a mistake to called to do it so there is a mistake to called to do it so there is a mistake to just try and get to the second container just try and get to the second container just try and get to the second container and have your life full of good things and have your life full of good things and have your life full of good things when you could have created all these when you could have created all these when you could have created all these jobs and all this wealth for the kingdom jobs and all this wealth for the kingdom jobs and all this wealth for the kingdom to have been a king in the sense that to have been a king in the sense that to have been a king in the sense that there's prophit priest and Kings you there's prophit priest and Kings you there's prophit priest and Kings you know all those things so I think know all those things so I think know all those things so I think regardless I I think it's helpful to regardless I I think it's helpful to regardless I I think it's helpful to have a road map for all the seasons of have a road map for all the seasons of have a road map for all the seasons of life and know what season you're in look life and know what season you're in look life and know what season you're in look forward to one that's coming and know forward to one that's coming and know forward to one that's coming and know what to do about it Levi that's so good what to do about it Levi that's so good what to do about it Levi that's so good you know I'll I'll send it to you it's you know I'll I'll send it to you it's you know I'll I'll send it to you it's not out yet but uh when we're done I not out yet but uh when we're done I not out yet but uh when we're done I I'll shoot it over to you I wrote a big I'll shoot it over to you I wrote a big I'll shoot it over to you I wrote a big piece on turning 60 the view from 60 piece on turning 60 the view from 60 piece on turning 60 the view from 60 that I put a lot of thought into uh but that I put a lot of thought into uh but that I put a lot of thought into uh but I had this like I had this like I had this like existential moment of Crisis I'm pretty existential moment of Crisis I'm pretty existential moment of Crisis I'm pretty excited about this next decade I'm excited about this next decade I'm excited about this next decade I'm excited about where I am you know I've excited about where I am you know I've excited about where I am you know I've been through the midlife crisis uh so I been through the midlife crisis uh so I been through the midlife crisis uh so I was feeling good but then I started to was feeling good but then I started to was feeling good but then I started to feel this building pressure you feel this building pressure you feel this building pressure you mentioned podcast downloads where I'm mentioned podcast downloads where I'm mentioned podcast downloads where I'm like well what if it doesn't keep like well what if it doesn't keep like well what if it doesn't keep growing what if I what if I don't get growing what if I what if I don't get growing what if I what if I don't get the good guess what if good people start the good guess what if good people start the good guess what if good people start to say no and I had all this pressure to say no and I had all this pressure to say no and I had all this pressure and I thought in the next decade I got and I thought in the next decade I got and I thought in the next decade I got to preserve what I built and I'm like

to preserve what I built and I'm like to preserve what I built and I'm like well up one day and I'm like no I don't well up one day and I'm like no I don't well up one day and I'm like no I don't where where did that idea come from you where where did that idea come from you where where did that idea come from you know like you can still reinvent know like you can still reinvent know like you can still reinvent yourself you can still try new things yourself you can still try new things yourself you can still try new things you don't owe it to anybody to preserve you don't owe it to anybody to preserve you don't owe it to anybody to preserve what you built you owe it to God to take what you built you owe it to God to take what you built you owe it to God to take the next step in faith whatever that the next step in faith whatever that the next step in faith whatever that might look like and at 45 I could not might look like and at 45 I could not might look like and at 45 I could not have predicted my 50s it turned out just have predicted my 50s it turned out just have predicted my 50s it turned out just beautifully way better than I would have beautifully way better than I would have beautifully way better than I would have imagined and maybe my 60s are an imagined and maybe my 60s are an imagined and maybe my 60s are an incredible Adventure not so much from a incredible Adventure not so much from a incredible Adventure not so much from a uh a build like you said you know build uh a build like you said you know build uh a build like you said you know build the container fill the container but the container fill the container but the container fill the container but you're starting to starting to give away you're starting to starting to give away you're starting to starting to give away more you're starting to share more more you're starting to share more more you're starting to share more you're starting to be a little hopefully you're starting to be a little hopefully you're starting to be a little hopefully less self-obsessed that really really less self-obsessed that really really less self-obsessed that really really resonates you know and I would say I resonates you know and I would say I resonates you know and I would say I mean when you and I were chatting uh mean when you and I were chatting uh mean when you and I were chatting uh offline you know we were talking about offline you know we were talking about offline you know we were talking about how you go and skin up a mountain uh in how you go and skin up a mountain uh in how you go and skin up a mountain uh in your skis every morning you're still your skis every morning you're still your skis every morning you're still cold plunging all that stuff like dude cold plunging all that stuff like dude cold plunging all that stuff like dude you're still pretty driven so when you you're still pretty driven so when you you're still pretty driven so when you look at you now four years on the other look at you now four years on the other look at you now four years on the other side of the crisis how has your drive side of the crisis how has your drive side of the crisis how has your drive changed and how have you adjusted it to changed and how have you adjusted it to changed and how have you adjusted it to this this this season I can't wait to read that piece season I can't wait to read that piece season I can't wait to read that piece you're talking about yeah the the beauty you're talking about yeah the the beauty you're talking about yeah the the beauty of a young man is strength or the glory of a young man is strength or the glory of a young man is strength or the glory the King James says of a young man is the King James says of a young man is the King James says of a young man is his strength but the glory of an old man his strength but the glory of an old man his strength but the glory of an old man is his gray hair so so that means that is his gray hair so so that means that is his gray hair so so that means that there's a glory to both and our our there's a glory to both and our our there's a glory to both and our our culture gives no glory a second no man culture gives no glory a second no man culture gives no glory a second no man they hide it or Botox it or or or or

they hide it or Botox it or or or or they hide it or Botox it or or or or castigate it to the off to banish it or castigate it to the off to banish it or castigate it to the off to banish it or ridic Bible the Bible doesn't do that ridic Bible the Bible doesn't do that ridic Bible the Bible doesn't do that the Bible has my favorite chapter in the Bible has my favorite chapter in the Bible has my favorite chapter in this book is called become Yoda you know this book is called become Yoda you know this book is called become Yoda you know because the Bible has a glory of a young because the Bible has a glory of a young because the Bible has a glory of a young of an old man and and Yoda's got Yoda's of an old man and and Yoda's got Yoda's of an old man and and Yoda's got Yoda's got worth we're not garbage when we're got worth we're not garbage when we're got worth we're not garbage when we're old in fact we have all of this C all old in fact we have all of this C all old in fact we have all of this C all the data says we have crystallized the data says we have crystallized the data says we have crystallized intelligence BRS right yeah well yeah intelligence BRS right yeah well yeah intelligence BRS right yeah well yeah well he's he's he's paraphrasing the well he's he's he's paraphrasing the well he's he's he's paraphrasing the work of some researchers I think Raymond work of some researchers I think Raymond work of some researchers I think Raymond catel or something like that is one of catel or something like that is one of catel or something like that is one of them but basically you your brain is not them but basically you your brain is not them but basically you your brain is not as good at at revolutionary ideas hold as good at at revolutionary ideas hold as good at at revolutionary ideas hold reimagining everything like that's reimagining everything like that's reimagining everything like that's that's that's crystallized intelligence that's that's crystallized intelligence that's that's crystallized intelligence it Peaks at like 40 and in fact you know it Peaks at like 40 and in fact you know it Peaks at like 40 and in fact you know most of the the big VC Tech uh and and most of the the big VC Tech uh and and most of the the big VC Tech uh and and um Silicon Valley entrepreneurs those um Silicon Valley entrepreneurs those um Silicon Valley entrepreneurs those are 20s Nobel Peace Prize winners are are 20s Nobel Peace Prize winners are are 20s Nobel Peace Prize winners are 30s you know it all goes down except for 30s you know it all goes down except for 30s you know it all goes down except for teachers and novelists I think they get teachers and novelists I think they get teachers and novelists I think they get a little bit more time and then of a little bit more time and then of a little bit more time and then of course professors you you can continue course professors you you can continue course professors you you can continue uh for a long time with that but uh for a long time with that but uh for a long time with that but everyone's going to eventually slow in everyone's going to eventually slow in everyone's going to eventually slow in their ability to have that rapid fire their ability to have that rapid fire their ability to have that rapid fire Brilliance crystallized intelligence is Brilliance crystallized intelligence is Brilliance crystallized intelligence is the actually begins to deepen and and the actually begins to deepen and and the actually begins to deepen and and and get enhanced as the other one goes and get enhanced as the other one goes and get enhanced as the other one goes and so Yoda's got a lot more value to and so Yoda's got a lot more value to and so Yoda's got a lot more value to the force teaching the Younglings how to the force teaching the Younglings how to the force teaching the Younglings how to how to wield a light saber give me one how to wield a light saber give me one how to wield a light saber give me one Yoda over a Luke Skywalker going mono Yoda over a Luke Skywalker going mono Yoda over a Luke Skywalker going mono imano with Darth Vader now we all want imano with Darth Vader now we all want imano with Darth Vader now we all want to be Luke Skywalker up and to the right to be Luke Skywalker up and to the right to be Luke Skywalker up and to the right forever bigger better you all that even

forever bigger better you all that even forever bigger better you all that even though we can't and and then it hit me though we can't and and then it hit me though we can't and and then it hit me one day that Jesus fed the one day that Jesus fed the one day that Jesus fed the 4,000 after he fed the 5,000 yeah and it 4,000 after he fed the 5,000 yeah and it 4,000 after he fed the 5,000 yeah and it chafed my hide I'm like couldn't you chafed my hide I'm like couldn't you chafed my hide I'm like couldn't you have started with the 4,000 Jesus have started with the 4,000 Jesus have started with the 4,000 Jesus but the numbers are both there and I but the numbers are both there and I but the numbers are both there and I think the glory of the the Lesser is think the glory of the the Lesser is think the glory of the the Lesser is just as important if only 4,000 are just as important if only 4,000 are just as important if only 4,000 are needed and so if my podcast or your needed and so if my podcast or your needed and so if my podcast or your teaching or this book if it goes to only teaching or this book if it goes to only teaching or this book if it goes to only 4,000 not 5,000 that's okay if if to 4,000 not 5,000 that's okay if if to 4,000 not 5,000 that's okay if if to 4,000 are needed and if there comes a 4,000 are needed and if there comes a 4,000 are needed and if there comes a day now I think I'm hopefully at a place day now I think I'm hopefully at a place day now I think I'm hopefully at a place we've launched our movement conference we've launched our movement conference we've launched our movement conference post midlife crisis which is all about post midlife crisis which is all about post midlife crisis which is all about young people if because I got saved as young people if because I got saved as young people if because I got saved as as a summer camp student so I I've as a summer camp student so I I've as a summer camp student so I I've poured oil on the fire of reaching young poured oil on the fire of reaching young poured oil on the fire of reaching young people and helping leaders and to people and helping leaders and to people and helping leaders and to hopefully distill whatever crystallized hopefully distill whatever crystallized hopefully distill whatever crystallized intelligence I'm starting to have um intelligence I'm starting to have um intelligence I'm starting to have um through those things and I and then I through those things and I and then I through those things and I and then I think even just the mercy of having a think even just the mercy of having a think even just the mercy of having a plan for your your last season most plan for your your last season most plan for your your last season most people will spend 300 hours combing people will spend 300 hours combing people will spend 300 hours combing through their loved ones estate garage through their loved ones estate garage through their loved ones estate garage storage unit 300 hours what a gift to storage unit 300 hours what a gift to storage unit 300 hours what a gift to give your your kids and grandkids their give your your kids and grandkids their give your your kids and grandkids their life back through you doing some of life back through you doing some of life back through you doing some of those funeral pre planning like I have those funeral pre planning like I have those funeral pre planning like I have we Jen and are getting buried I already we Jen and are getting buried I already we Jen and are getting buried I already bought it you know what I mean like we bought it you know what I mean like we bought it you know what I mean like we can do all that my kids are going to can do all that my kids are going to can do all that my kids are going to have to work I had to go figure out have to work I had to go figure out have to work I had to go figure out where to bury my dad all that stuff and where to bury my dad all that stuff and where to bury my dad all that stuff and I'm not no shame on my dad he didn't I'm not no shame on my dad he didn't I'm not no shame on my dad he didn't think he was gonna die I I don't know if think he was gonna die I I don't know if think he was gonna die I I don't know if he ever thought he was gonna die he ever thought he was gonna die he ever thought he was gonna die ever you know Tony and I've been through ever you know Tony and I've been through ever you know Tony and I've been through a very similar thing we've lost uh one

a very similar thing we've lost uh one a very similar thing we've lost uh one of the parents and you know combing of the parents and you know combing of the parents and you know combing through all that stuff man that can take through all that stuff man that can take through all that stuff man that can take forever and we're like yeah we're going forever and we're like yeah we're going forever and we're like yeah we're going to we're going to purge as we go purge to we're going to purge as we go purge to we're going to purge as we go purge as we go and just line as we go and just line as we go and just line yeah um I want to talk about your yeah um I want to talk about your yeah um I want to talk about your reclaim motivation so lots of therapy reclaim motivation so lots of therapy reclaim motivation so lots of therapy lots of processing lots of prayer you're lots of processing lots of prayer you're lots of processing lots of prayer you're in a different place now I sense it but in a different place now I sense it but in a different place now I sense it but Levi like as far as getting up at 5:30 Levi like as far as getting up at 5:30 Levi like as far as getting up at 5:30 a.m. you know skinning up a mountain and a.m. you know skinning up a mountain and a.m. you know skinning up a mountain and skiing down uh writing sermons writing skiing down uh writing sermons writing skiing down uh writing sermons writing new books what is motivating you and how new books what is motivating you and how new books what is motivating you and how is that different from pre- 38 is that different from pre- 38 is that different from pre- 38 the same things are there in the sense the same things are there in the sense the same things are there in the sense of I am who I am you know I I turned off of I am who I am you know I I turned off of I am who I am you know I I turned off my alarm this morning by the way I'm my alarm this morning by the way I'm my alarm this morning by the way I'm like so on I'm on to sleep right now like so on I'm on to sleep right now like so on I'm on to sleep right now like I'm you and I were chatting about like I'm you and I were chatting about like I'm you and I were chatting about it Rec yeah you've got your Garmin I've it Rec yeah you've got your Garmin I've it Rec yeah you've got your Garmin I've got my Apple watch and my AA ring yeah got my Apple watch and my AA ring yeah got my Apple watch and my AA ring yeah well I have got the Garmin um my Breathe well I have got the Garmin um my Breathe well I have got the Garmin um my Breathe Right Strips every night before I go to Right Strips every night before I go to Right Strips every night before I go to sleep I put a breath right on to open up sleep I put a breath right on to open up sleep I put a breath right on to open up my sinuses I tape my mouth uh oh you're my sinuses I tape my mouth uh oh you're my sinuses I tape my mouth uh oh you're s thing do the mouth tape thing wow I've s thing do the mouth tape thing wow I've s thing do the mouth tape thing wow I've got sleep eight uh which puts pipes cool got sleep eight uh which puts pipes cool got sleep eight uh which puts pipes cool water through my bed yeah that's coming water through my bed yeah that's coming water through my bed yeah that's coming to our house soon too we discussed that to our house soon too we discussed that to our house soon too we discussed that I'm telling you they have the new one I'm telling you they have the new one I'm telling you they have the new one now that can if you start snoring it'll now that can if you start snoring it'll now that can if you start snoring it'll sit you up until pull you which you sit you up until pull you which you sit you up until pull you which you can't snore with your mouth taped um and can't snore with your mouth taped um and can't snore with your mouth taped um and then I also stop eating three hours then I also stop eating three hours then I also stop eating three hours before bedtime which is one of the before bedtime which is one of the before bedtime which is one of the biggest things because your body biggest things because your body biggest things because your body processing um food has to have blood

processing um food has to have blood processing um food has to have blood flow through it and to do that your flow through it and to do that your flow through it and to do that your heart has to increase and the biggest heart has to increase and the biggest heart has to increase and the biggest factor in going to sleep is is your factor in going to sleep is is your factor in going to sleep is is your lowered heart rate yeah so I got eight lowered heart rate yeah so I got eight lowered heart rate yeah so I got eight and a half hours of good sleep my Garmin and a half hours of good sleep my Garmin and a half hours of good sleep my Garmin called it 84 I had zero awake minutes called it 84 I had zero awake minutes called it 84 I had zero awake minutes which is massive for me um and and with which is massive for me um and and with which is massive for me um and and with no alarm I woke up at 6 and I'm ready to no alarm I woke up at 6 and I'm ready to no alarm I woke up at 6 and I'm ready to start the day and I don't try and start the day and I don't try and start the day and I don't try and manufacture artificially that energy manufacture artificially that energy manufacture artificially that energy where it's not I try and lean into it where it's not I try and lean into it where it's not I try and lean into it where it is I know that's eventually where it is I know that's eventually where it is I know that's eventually gonna change and I do rest going into gonna change and I do rest going into gonna change and I do rest going into and coming out of crazy busy seasons and and coming out of crazy busy seasons and and coming out of crazy busy seasons and and I would say Carrie I'm now more just and I would say Carrie I'm now more just and I would say Carrie I'm now more just aware of what sets off the little Levi aware of what sets off the little Levi aware of what sets off the little Levi in me either for the need for validation in me either for the need for validation in me either for the need for validation or looking to things to numb pain so I I or looking to things to numb pain so I I or looking to things to numb pain so I I think it's like almost like a phone think it's like almost like a phone think it's like almost like a phone rings and you just are aware of the rings and you just are aware of the rings and you just are aware of the phone ringing where before I would have phone ringing where before I would have phone ringing where before I would have just picked it up without even knowing just picked it up without even knowing just picked it up without even knowing it was happening and so I just I have it was happening and so I just I have it was happening and so I just I have more tools to deal with some of those more tools to deal with some of those more tools to deal with some of those things um yeah so I I think I'm I'm the things um yeah so I I think I'm I'm the things um yeah so I I think I'm I'm the same guy but hopefully more healed for same guy but hopefully more healed for same guy but hopefully more healed for this current season it's a good word for this current season it's a good word for this current season it's a good word for the young leaders we have a lot of we the young leaders we have a lot of we the young leaders we have a lot of we just shared our demographics with some just shared our demographics with some just shared our demographics with some other leaders and apparently we have other leaders and apparently we have other leaders and apparently we have very young audience for the church space very young audience for the church space very young audience for the church space so for everybody who's pre so for everybody who's pre so for everybody who's pre 38 uh what advice would you give them 38 uh what advice would you give them 38 uh what advice would you give them what tips would you suggest uh you know what tips would you suggest uh you know what tips would you suggest uh you know metrics they need to check heart pieces metrics they need to check heart pieces metrics they need to check heart pieces they need to check what's your advice they need to check what's your advice they need to check what's your advice for younger leaders for younger leaders for younger leaders Levi we need you we need Luke Skywalker Levi we need you we need Luke Skywalker Levi we need you we need Luke Skywalker us Yodas are going and maybe we're Han us Yodas are going and maybe we're Han us Yodas are going and maybe we're Han solos I don't know what you know maybe

solos I don't know what you know maybe solos I don't know what you know maybe I'm grou I don't know like I'm a baby I'm grou I don't know like I'm a baby I'm grou I don't know like I'm a baby Yoda like we need you we need to go Yoda like we need you we need to go Yoda like we need you we need to go build I don't want to be one of those build I don't want to be one of those build I don't want to be one of those older people who are like with pessimism older people who are like with pessimism older people who are like with pessimism go you're just going to crack you're you go you're just going to crack you're you go you're just going to crack you're you know what I mean I don't want to be Jed know what I mean I don't want to be Jed know what I mean I don't want to be Jed I want to be pure of heart build teach I want to be pure of heart build teach I want to be pure of heart build teach us we need your I see the world us we need your I see the world us we need your I see the world differently we need your revolutionary differently we need your revolutionary differently we need your revolutionary ideas we need all of those things so go ideas we need all of those things so go ideas we need all of those things so go go go run run run but as you do be aware go go run run run but as you do be aware go go run run run but as you do be aware of what you're in where you're going of what you're in where you're going of what you're in where you're going have a road map for life um connect as have a road map for life um connect as have a road map for life um connect as many dots as you can now before you know many dots as you can now before you know many dots as you can now before you know if you send a mind sweeper through a if you send a mind sweeper through a if you send a mind sweeper through a field it the the bombs still blow up field it the the bombs still blow up field it the the bombs still blow up they just blow up in a controlled they just blow up in a controlled they just blow up in a controlled capacity don't let them blow up when capacity don't let them blow up when capacity don't let them blow up when you're just stumbling on to them you you're just stumbling on to them you you're just stumbling on to them you know you don't have to wait till you're know you don't have to wait till you're know you don't have to wait till you're 40 or whatever you can deal with as much 40 or whatever you can deal with as much 40 or whatever you can deal with as much inner work as you can along the way and inner work as you can along the way and inner work as you can along the way and um and and pace yourself you know you um and and pace yourself you know you um and and pace yourself you know you don't have an infinite don't have an infinite don't have an infinite ability my counselor Drew this thing ability my counselor Drew this thing ability my counselor Drew this thing which which was Jagged um mountain peaks which which was Jagged um mountain peaks which which was Jagged um mountain peaks and he said every time you go up to a and he said every time you go up to a and he said every time you go up to a heightened state of heightened state of heightened state of arousal your whole autonomic nervous arousal your whole autonomic nervous arousal your whole autonomic nervous system has to fire everything's got to system has to fire everything's got to system has to fire everything's got to just be everything banging you're you're just be everything banging you're you're just be everything banging you're you're fully aroused doing what you do at the fully aroused doing what you do at the fully aroused doing what you do at the highest level whether you're a Navy seal highest level whether you're a Navy seal highest level whether you're a Navy seal or you're a lifeguard or you're or a or you're a lifeguard or you're or a or you're a lifeguard or you're or a pastor teacher at the highest level of pastor teacher at the highest level of pastor teacher at the highest level of performance you you have nowhere to go performance you you have nowhere to go performance you you have nowhere to go anymore so then the next day you have to anymore so then the next day you have to anymore so then the next day you have to kind of come down Mondays after kind of come down Mondays after kind of come down Mondays after preaching you know coming home from a preaching you know coming home from a preaching you know coming home from a tour to Iraq whatever it is you got to tour to Iraq whatever it is you got to tour to Iraq whatever it is you got to come down and The Descent gets more come down and The Descent gets more come down and The Descent gets more people than the ascent by the people than the ascent by the people than the ascent by the way more people die coming down ever

way more people die coming down ever way more people die coming down ever than going than going than going up wow It's tricky to come down you got up wow It's tricky to come down you got up wow It's tricky to come down you got to learn how to come down from the to learn how to come down from the to learn how to come down from the highest state of arousal highest state of arousal highest state of arousal and if you land and 3 hours later after and if you land and 3 hours later after and if you land and 3 hours later after recording you're on the next one guess recording you're on the next one guess recording you're on the next one guess what you didn't come down but you what you didn't come down but you what you didn't come down but you started a new Peak and So eventually started a new Peak and So eventually started a new Peak and So eventually you're just here and then everything you're just here and then everything you're just here and then everything begins to spill begins to spill begins to spill over so learn to come down just like you over so learn to come down just like you over so learn to come down just like you go up learn to go play golf or take a go up learn to go play golf or take a go up learn to go play golf or take a walk or in my case fly fishing or walk or in my case fly fishing or walk or in my case fly fishing or skinning up a mountain you know you have skinning up a mountain you know you have skinning up a mountain you know you have to learn to go come down and reset and to learn to go come down and reset and to learn to go come down and reset and go up if man cannot live by sugar-free go up if man cannot live by sugar-free go up if man cannot live by sugar-free Red Bulls Red Bulls Red Bulls alone so much was wisdom here any final alone so much was wisdom here any final alone so much was wisdom here any final word I and thank you for going there I word I and thank you for going there I word I and thank you for going there I just want to say on behalf of everybody just want to say on behalf of everybody just want to say on behalf of everybody who's watching or listening to this who's watching or listening to this who's watching or listening to this podcast like one of my dreams is to podcast like one of my dreams is to podcast like one of my dreams is to facilitate facilitate more and more of facilitate facilitate more and more of facilitate facilitate more and more of these discussions that are happening in these discussions that are happening in these discussions that are happening in almost real time uh so that so that we almost real time uh so that so that we almost real time uh so that so that we can just all get healthier and you've can just all get healthier and you've can just all get healthier and you've made a tremendous contribution to that made a tremendous contribution to that made a tremendous contribution to that with this conversation with your book with this conversation with your book with this conversation with your book blessed are the spiraling little bit the blessed are the spiraling little bit the blessed are the spiraling little bit the title Envy there brilliant brilliant title Envy there brilliant brilliant title Envy there brilliant brilliant beautiful cover all of that and a great beautiful cover all of that and a great beautiful cover all of that and a great book but any final word to uh for book but any final word to uh for book but any final word to uh for us yeah I would just say you know you us yeah I would just say you know you us yeah I would just say you know you don't have to continue on the path that don't have to continue on the path that don't have to continue on the path that you're you're on you we had a guy in our you're you're on you we had a guy in our you're you're on you we had a guy in our church who at 30 had an epiphany that he church who at 30 had an epiphany that he church who at 30 had an epiphany that he hated ranching and he's just like third hated ranching and he's just like third hated ranching and he's just like third generation Rancher and he's like but I'm

generation Rancher and he's like but I'm generation Rancher and he's like but I'm already you know I'm third like it's too already you know I'm third like it's too already you know I'm third like it's too late and and I had said in a sermon like late and and I had said in a sermon like late and and I had said in a sermon like 5 years now from now life could be 5 years now from now life could be 5 years now from now life could be completely different and he's like wait completely different and he's like wait completely different and he's like wait a minute you're right and his wife said a minute you're right and his wife said a minute you're right and his wife said what do you what do you want to do and what do you what do you want to do and what do you what do you want to do and he's like well the only thing I ever he's like well the only thing I ever he's like well the only thing I ever really kind of wanted to do was be an really kind of wanted to do was be an really kind of wanted to do was be an electrician but my family you're all electrician but my family you're all electrician but my family you're all ranchers and she goes why don't you be ranchers and she goes why don't you be ranchers and she goes why don't you be an electrician you idiot and so at 30 he an electrician you idiot and so at 30 he an electrician you idiot and so at 30 he went back to school and became a you went back to school and became a you went back to school and became a you know an electrician and five years later know an electrician and five years later know an electrician and five years later he's he's an electrician you know so I he's he's an electrician you know so I he's he's an electrician you know so I would just say if if if you're doing would just say if if if you're doing would just say if if if you're doing something well and that apply that that something well and that apply that that something well and that apply that that could apply to you could begin a r to be could apply to you could begin a r to be could apply to you could begin a r to be a Rancher you know or in my case you a Rancher you know or in my case you a Rancher you know or in my case you could be in the same job job and I I could be in the same job job and I I could be in the same job job and I I love that I'm in the same job but I'm love that I'm in the same job but I'm love that I'm in the same job but I'm doing it differently yeah I'm doing it differently yeah I'm doing it differently yeah I'm approaching leadership differently and approaching leadership differently and approaching leadership differently and so I would just say as a closing thought so I would just say as a closing thought so I would just say as a closing thought you don't have to just be stuck you're you don't have to just be stuck you're you don't have to just be stuck you're not stuck unless you stop and if you if not stuck unless you stop and if you if not stuck unless you stop and if you if you spiral the right way you're hitting you spiral the right way you're hitting you spiral the right way you're hitting a wall might actually be a stair step a wall might actually be a stair step a wall might actually be a stair step and not a wall it's the chance for you and not a wall it's the chance for you and not a wall it's the chance for you if you run into something hard and your if you run into something hard and your if you run into something hard and your nose is bleeding maybe it's the chance nose is bleeding maybe it's the chance nose is bleeding maybe it's the chance to take a step and and spiral up to the to take a step and and spiral up to the to take a step and and spiral up to the blessing that God wants for you to have blessing that God wants for you to have blessing that God wants for you to have whether it's in electrician work or whether it's in electrician work or whether it's in electrician work or ranching work or preaching or doing the ranching work or preaching or doing the ranching work or preaching or doing the same job but just as a different version same job but just as a different version same job but just as a different version of yourself yeah yeah this has been rich of yourself yeah yeah this has been rich of yourself yeah yeah this has been rich man I'm looking forward to hanging out man I'm looking forward to hanging out man I'm looking forward to hanging out and having more conversations with you and having more conversations with you and having more conversations with you Levi the book is called blessed are the Levi the book is called blessed are the Levi the book is called blessed are the spiraling uh touching on well what we spiraling uh touching on well what we spiraling uh touching on well what we talked about now it's available talked about now it's available talked about now it's available everywhere if you're going to send

everywhere if you're going to send everywhere if you're going to send people to social to a website where people to social to a website where people to social to a website where where would you send them where you most where would you send them where you most where would you send them where you most active said are thep spiraling dcom is active said are thep spiraling dcom is active said are thep spiraling dcom is the book site Audi book um some fun the book site Audi book um some fun the book site Audi book um some fun stuff there some free um things that stuff there some free um things that stuff there some free um things that would would be encouraging there and would would be encouraging there and would would be encouraging there and then yeah I'm I'm active on all of the then yeah I'm I'm active on all of the then yeah I'm I'm active on all of the platforms Tik Tok and Instagram and platforms Tik Tok and Instagram and platforms Tik Tok and Instagram and Facebook and X as well um and and that's Facebook and X as well um and and that's Facebook and X as well um and and that's it I I don't have any more energy for it I I don't have any more energy for it I I don't have any more energy for anymore at the moment do you do any of anymore at the moment do you do any of anymore at the moment do you do any of the other ones there's like new weird the other ones there's like new weird the other ones there's like new weird ones right no we're doubling down we're ones right no we're doubling down we're ones right no we're doubling down we're starting out on Tik Tok uh Instagram's starting out on Tik Tok uh Instagram's starting out on Tik Tok uh Instagram's my main and uh yeah I think we've my main and uh yeah I think we've my main and uh yeah I think we've abandoned X I don't know I should check abandoned X I don't know I should check abandoned X I don't know I should check I'll tell you what the best thing about I'll tell you what the best thing about I'll tell you what the best thing about X is grock though dude yeah people I've X is grock though dude yeah people I've X is grock though dude yeah people I've Heard lots of great things about it that Heard lots of great things about it that Heard lots of great things about it that it's the best I have the grock app don't it's the best I have the grock app don't it's the best I have the grock app don't use it a lot but I had grock helped me use it a lot but I had grock helped me use it a lot but I had grock helped me with this interview really yeah because with this interview really yeah because with this interview really yeah because you sent me the questions I send you all you sent me the questions I send you all you sent me the questions I send you all the questions yeah so I just piped my the questions yeah so I just piped my the questions yeah so I just piped my manuscript in put the questions in and manuscript in put the questions in and manuscript in put the questions in and said hey Gro put from the book what you said hey Gro put from the book what you said hey Gro put from the book what you think would be most helpful and it was think would be most helpful and it was think would be most helpful and it was fun to read it like I didn't use fun to read it like I didn't use fun to read it like I didn't use probably 90% you right like did it probably 90% you right like did it probably 90% you right like did it understand you quite well yeah cuz I understand you quite well yeah cuz I understand you quite well yeah cuz I told it only use my material and shape told it only use my material and shape told it only use my material and shape just put it in the bin for what it's fun just put it in the bin for what it's fun just put it in the bin for what it's fun to me I like to see I don't like it to to me I like to see I don't like it to to me I like to see I don't like it to write but if it takes my words and I'll write but if it takes my words and I'll write but if it takes my words and I'll feed my words back to me but sort it feed my words back to me but sort it feed my words back to me but sort it that it's good with that it's that's that it's good with that it's that's that it's good with that it's that's just raw computation yeah I just use just raw computation yeah I just use just raw computation yeah I just use Claude uh. to do something very similar Claude uh. to do something very similar Claude uh. to do something very similar I took a blog post turned it into a PDF

I took a blog post turned it into a PDF I took a blog post turned it into a PDF and just like turn this into not five and just like turn this into not five and just like turn this into not five bullet points but three using exactly my bullet points but three using exactly my bullet points but three using exactly my phrasing and I need to be a 12-minute phrasing and I need to be a 12-minute phrasing and I need to be a 12-minute YouTube video pretty much nailed it YouTube video pretty much nailed it YouTube video pretty much nailed it three small revisions but I'm like no three small revisions but I'm like no three small revisions but I'm like no not like you like me it's the stuff's not like you like me it's the stuff's not like you like me it's the stuff's incredible is that CRA clawed with fluid incredible is that CRA clawed with fluid incredible is that CRA clawed with fluid or crystallized or crystallized or crystallized intelligence how smart will he be in 20 intelligence how smart will he be in 20 intelligence how smart will he be in 20 years yeah artificial general years yeah artificial general years yeah artificial general intelligence who knows but it's pretty intelligence who knows but it's pretty intelligence who knows but it's pretty exciting buddy thank you so much it's exciting buddy thank you so much it's exciting buddy thank you so much it's been a joy love you too