Craig Groeschel's Digital Ministry Strategies for REACHING More People

I don't see the thumbnail someone else I don't see the thumbnail someone else chooses that photo so it's not that chooses that photo so it's not that chooses that photo so it's not that controlling for me and I I don't have controlling for me and I I don't have controlling for me and I I don't have time to care about what I look like time to care about what I look like time to care about what I look like everywhere but what I do have time to everywhere but what I do have time to everywhere but what I do have time to care about is do I believe that this care about is do I believe that this care about is do I believe that this title is going to be the most effective title is going to be the most effective title is going to be the most effective to draw clicks because the difference to draw clicks because the difference to draw clicks because the difference can be you know it can be hundreds of can be you know it can be hundreds of can be you know it can be hundreds of thousands of views welcome to the car thousands of views welcome to the car thousands of views welcome to the car newoff leadership podcast on YouTube I'm newoff leadership podcast on YouTube I'm newoff leadership podcast on YouTube I'm so glad you joined us hey shout out to so glad you joined us hey shout out to so glad you joined us hey shout out to all of you who are joining us for the all of you who are joining us for the all of you who are joining us for the first time want to welcome you in you're first time want to welcome you in you're first time want to welcome you in you're in for a treat I sit down with the one in for a treat I sit down with the one in for a treat I sit down with the one and only Craig grelle he won't tell you and only Craig grelle he won't tell you and only Craig grelle he won't tell you this but he leads the largest attended this but he leads the largest attended this but he leads the largest attended church in the history of America Life church in the history of America Life church in the history of America Life Church if you enjoy the uver Bible Church if you enjoy the uver Bible Church if you enjoy the uver Bible That's thanks to Life Church Innovation That's thanks to Life Church Innovation That's thanks to Life Church Innovation and he's just touching millions of lives and he's just touching millions of lives and he's just touching millions of lives and we sit down and we get behind the and we sit down and we get behind the and we sit down and we get behind the scenes we talk about how Craig after 29 scenes we talk about how Craig after 29 scenes we talk about how Craig after 29 years of leading Life Church is adapting years of leading Life Church is adapting years of leading Life Church is adapting his communication style for this his communication style for this his communication style for this cultural moment uh you know what's cultural moment uh you know what's cultural moment uh you know what's happening with digital media with online happening with digital media with online happening with digital media with online with AI we talk about all of that and a with AI we talk about all of that and a with AI we talk about all of that and a whole lot more he's also talking about whole lot more he's also talking about whole lot more he's also talking about extreme habits like what are the extreme extreme habits like what are the extreme extreme habits like what are the extreme habits he has that are so great and some habits he has that are so great and some habits he has that are so great and some other tweaks that they're making in other tweaks that they're making in other tweaks that they're making in Ministry so I think you're really going Ministry so I think you're really going Ministry so I think you're really going to enjoy this episode hey and a quick to enjoy this episode hey and a quick to enjoy this episode hey and a quick shout out before we get started to Donna shout out before we get started to Donna shout out before we get started to Donna miden who left a really encouraging miden who left a really encouraging miden who left a really encouraging comment on a recent interview here on comment on a recent interview here on comment on a recent interview here on YouTube really want to thank Donna for YouTube really want to thank Donna for YouTube really want to thank Donna for that and uh hey when you like And that and uh hey when you like And that and uh hey when you like And subscribe and leave a comment really subscribe and leave a comment really subscribe and leave a comment really makes a difference helps us get the best makes a difference helps us get the best makes a difference helps us get the best guest like Craig Michelle will get to my guest like Craig Michelle will get to my guest like Craig Michelle will get to my conversation with Craig in just a moment

conversation with Craig in just a moment conversation with Craig in just a moment but first uh a word from today's but first uh a word from today's but first uh a word from today's sponsors this episode is brought to you sponsors this episode is brought to you sponsors this episode is brought to you by Glue plus I hear from a lot of by Glue plus I hear from a lot of by Glue plus I hear from a lot of pastors that traditional Outreach pastors that traditional Outreach pastors that traditional Outreach methods like social media word of mouth methods like social media word of mouth methods like social media word of mouth and yard signs just are getting the and yard signs just are getting the and yard signs just are getting the results that they used to and if that results that they used to and if that results that they used to and if that sounds familiar I want to share sounds familiar I want to share sounds familiar I want to share something that is working the new mover something that is working the new mover something that is working the new mover program it's an easy effective way to program it's an easy effective way to program it's an easy effective way to welcome neighbors to introduce yourself welcome neighbors to introduce yourself welcome neighbors to introduce yourself and to invite them to your church here's and to invite them to your church here's and to invite them to your church here's how it works you send personalized how it works you send personalized how it works you send personalized postcards every single month to anyone postcards every single month to anyone postcards every single month to anyone who moves into your area and the best who moves into your area and the best who moves into your area and the best part if you're a glue plus member you'll part if you're a glue plus member you'll part if you're a glue plus member you'll get 50 free postcards a month that means get 50 free postcards a month that means get 50 free postcards a month that means you can grow your church and build you can grow your church and build you can grow your church and build meaningful connections all without meaningful connections all without meaningful connections all without straining your budget so start 2025 by straining your budget so start 2025 by straining your budget so start 2025 by reaching families at the perfect moment reaching families at the perfect moment reaching families at the perfect moment when they're settling into a new home when they're settling into a new home when they're settling into a new home and open to building new relationships and open to building new relationships and open to building new relationships if you're ready to connect visit glue if you're ready to connect visit glue if you're ready to connect visit glue plus. outreach.com plus. outreach.com plus. outreach.com today that's today that's today that's gus. outreach.com today and get started gus. outreach.com today and get started gus. outreach.com today and get started this episode is brought to you by Bay is this episode is brought to you by Bay is this episode is brought to you by Bay is your never- ending to-do list keeping your never- ending to-do list keeping your never- ending to-do list keeping you from getting to what matters most you from getting to what matters most you from getting to what matters most well if you're like a lot of leaders you well if you're like a lot of leaders you well if you're like a lot of leaders you know just how difficult it can be to know just how difficult it can be to know just how difficult it can be to maximize your bandwidth but what if you maximize your bandwidth but what if you maximize your bandwidth but what if you could get more done in your day with our could get more done in your day with our could get more done in your day with our friends at ble you can get your friends at ble you can get your friends at ble you can get your bandwidth back how well it's all about bandwidth back how well it's all about bandwidth back how well it's all about the power of Delegation with over 2,000 the power of Delegation with over 2,000 the power of Delegation with over 2,000 vetted professionals ble makes

vetted professionals ble makes vetted professionals ble makes delegating tasks simple whether you're delegating tasks simple whether you're delegating tasks simple whether you're looking for accounting marketing or looking for accounting marketing or looking for accounting marketing or administrative support ble has the administrative support ble has the administrative support ble has the flexible solution to meet your needs flexible solution to meet your needs flexible solution to meet your needs ready to save time and boost your impact ready to save time and boost your impact ready to save time and boost your impact and create a clear path toward your and create a clear path toward your and create a clear path toward your vision take advantage of Bay's special vision take advantage of Bay's special vision take advantage of Bay's special offer this month and download their book offer this month and download their book offer this month and download their book delegate to elevate for free with this delegate to elevate for free with this delegate to elevate for free with this guide you'll learn how to focus on your guide you'll learn how to focus on your guide you'll learn how to focus on your strengths delegate your weaknesses and strengths delegate your weaknesses and strengths delegate your weaknesses and become the best leader you can be so to become the best leader you can be so to become the best leader you can be so to claim this offer text the word Carrie my claim this offer text the word Carrie my claim this offer text the word Carrie my name c a r y to 55123 for your free copy name c a r y to 55123 for your free copy name c a r y to 55123 for your free copy today that's Carrie C A R Y to today that's Carrie C A R Y to today that's Carrie C A R Y to 55123 Craig always good to talk to you 55123 Craig always good to talk to you 55123 Craig always good to talk to you welcome back hey Carrie thank you man welcome back hey Carrie thank you man welcome back hey Carrie thank you man it's uh it's it's always fun you do a it's uh it's it's always fun you do a it's uh it's it's always fun you do a great job well likewise and uh we talked great job well likewise and uh we talked great job well likewise and uh we talked about this before but the recovery from about this before but the recovery from about this before but the recovery from covid which was five years ago which covid which was five years ago which covid which was five years ago which seems like yesterday and forever ago uh seems like yesterday and forever ago uh seems like yesterday and forever ago uh was really difficult for a lot of was really difficult for a lot of was really difficult for a lot of churches and I kind of want to start churches and I kind of want to start churches and I kind of want to start there you and I have talked about it on there you and I have talked about it on there you and I have talked about it on this podcast before uh Life Church was this podcast before uh Life Church was this podcast before uh Life Church was actually no exception there's almost actually no exception there's almost actually no exception there's almost nobody who was exempt from having to nobody who was exempt from having to nobody who was exempt from having to rethink a lot of things over the last 5 rethink a lot of things over the last 5 rethink a lot of things over the last 5 years so you mentioned to me as we were years so you mentioned to me as we were years so you mentioned to me as we were getting ready for this that things are getting ready for this that things are getting ready for this that things are finally working again like you're back finally working again like you're back finally working again like you're back you're feeling great about it what was you're feeling great about it what was you're feeling great about it what was the path back like for you well it you the path back like for you well it you the path back like for you well it you know it was um more complicated than I

know it was um more complicated than I know it was um more complicated than I expected and um considerably different expected and um considerably different expected and um considerably different than I expected I'm not sure you know than I expected I'm not sure you know than I expected I'm not sure you know that anybody knew what it was going to that anybody knew what it was going to that anybody knew what it was going to be but uh you know postco there was just be but uh you know postco there was just be but uh you know postco there was just a different mood a different vibe kind a different mood a different vibe kind a different mood a different vibe kind of a different mindset about so many of a different mindset about so many of a different mindset about so many different things everything from you a different things everything from you a different things everything from you a lot of people what what their approach lot of people what what their approach lot of people what what their approach would be to what's Church going to look would be to what's Church going to look would be to what's Church going to look like in their own patterns and then you like in their own patterns and then you like in their own patterns and then you know for employees in team members like know for employees in team members like know for employees in team members like you know where are we going to work how you know where are we going to work how you know where are we going to work how of we going to work how how hard we're of we going to work how how hard we're of we going to work how how hard we're going to work and so it just there were going to work and so it just there were going to work and so it just there were um you I thought after covid we'd go um you I thought after covid we'd go um you I thought after covid we'd go back to Leading like normal but there back to Leading like normal but there back to Leading like normal but there were there was a new gear I didn't were there was a new gear I didn't were there was a new gear I didn't realize and one was you know there's realize and one was you know there's realize and one was you know there's kind of normal leadership and there's kind of normal leadership and there's kind of normal leadership and there's two is there's crisis leadership and two is there's crisis leadership and two is there's crisis leadership and then there was a you know we' never been then there was a you know we' never been then there was a you know we' never been in a global crisis uh this way and so in a global crisis uh this way and so in a global crisis uh this way and so there was another gear I hadn't LED there was another gear I hadn't LED there was another gear I hadn't LED before and that was leading out of a before and that was leading out of a before and that was leading out of a crisis and so crisis and so crisis and so uh I'd say that the biggest thing is we uh I'd say that the biggest thing is we uh I'd say that the biggest thing is we were just way way more Hands-On way more were just way way more Hands-On way more were just way way more Hands-On way more intentional about communication and intentional about communication and intentional about communication and normally car we'd work on one or two normally car we'd work on one or two normally car we'd work on one or two things and we'll work on them for a things and we'll work on them for a things and we'll work on them for a month or two and we'll move on we had month or two and we'll move on we had month or two and we'll move on we had three things that we worked on and it three things that we worked on and it three things that we worked on and it was I want to say like probably almost was I want to say like probably almost was I want to say like probably almost two years where every time we'd meet we two years where every time we'd meet we two years where every time we'd meet we say here's what we're going to do and say here's what we're going to do and say here's what we're going to do and we'd name these three things over and we'd name these three things over and we'd name these three things over and over and over again and drive them in over and over again and drive them in over and over again and drive them in drive them in drive them in and it took drive them in drive them in and it took drive them in drive them in and it took longer to kind of accomplish those longer to kind of accomplish those longer to kind of accomplish those things drive them deeper into the things drive them deeper into the things drive them deeper into the organiz ation but once we did we were organiz ation but once we did we were organiz ation but once we did we were able to kind of rebuild the values and

able to kind of rebuild the values and able to kind of rebuild the values and the work ethic and now here we are today the work ethic and now here we are today the work ethic and now here we are today and by the grace of God and a lot of and by the grace of God and a lot of and by the grace of God and a lot of hard work for a lot of valuable people hard work for a lot of valuable people hard work for a lot of valuable people is um we're seeing great results again is um we're seeing great results again is um we're seeing great results again and it's fun again and so I'm and it's fun again and so I'm and it's fun again and so I'm ridiculously thankful can you remind us ridiculously thankful can you remind us ridiculously thankful can you remind us of what those three things that you of what those three things that you of what those three things that you focused on were and then I'd love to focused on were and then I'd love to focused on were and then I'd love to know how you settled on those because know how you settled on those because know how you settled on those because there's probably 30 things you could there's probably 30 things you could there's probably 30 things you could have have have I'd love to know the for us these things I'd love to know the for us these things I'd love to know the for us these things were really really clear and and um were really really clear and and um were really really clear and and um there there's you know every church has there there's you know every church has there there's you know every church has um a unique calling gifts opportunities um a unique calling gifts opportunities um a unique calling gifts opportunities and and we were not and and we were not and and we were not doing the things that I felt like we doing the things that I felt like we doing the things that I felt like we were uniquely called to do so the three were uniquely called to do so the three were uniquely called to do so the three things we talked about care we said things we talked about care we said things we talked about care we said we're going to reach people create we're going to reach people create we're going to reach people create margins simplif processes Reach people margins simplif processes Reach people margins simplif processes Reach people create margins simplify processes it create margins simplify processes it create margins simplify processes it doesn't sound groundbreaking exciting doesn't sound groundbreaking exciting doesn't sound groundbreaking exciting for us it was it was indescribably for us it was it was indescribably for us it was it was indescribably essential and the first thing is that essential and the first thing is that essential and the first thing is that you know we you know we you know we are an ongoing strength 30 years in is are an ongoing strength 30 years in is are an ongoing strength 30 years in is that we have a deep abiding passion for that we have a deep abiding passion for that we have a deep abiding passion for evangelism and on the evangelism and on the evangelism and on the backside of covid I think people had a backside of covid I think people had a backside of covid I think people had a little bit more spiritual complacency little bit more spiritual complacency little bit more spiritual complacency and we just weren't nearly as and we just weren't nearly as and we just weren't nearly as Evangelistic so Reach people reach Evangelistic so Reach people reach Evangelistic so Reach people reach people reach people we put that number people reach people we put that number people reach people we put that number one because that's the most important one because that's the most important one because that's the most important thing and it the goal is to reach people thing and it the goal is to reach people thing and it the goal is to reach people and then kind of the byproduct is you and then kind of the byproduct is you and then kind of the byproduct is you want the church to grow again like like want the church to grow again like like want the church to grow again like like we have always seen consistent growth

we have always seen consistent growth we have always seen consistent growth over the 30-year period and we weren't over the 30-year period and we weren't over the 30-year period and we weren't necessarily seeing it and so we're going necessarily seeing it and so we're going necessarily seeing it and so we're going to reach people and then that that is to reach people and then that that is to reach people and then that that is the goal which the byproduct is grow the goal which the byproduct is grow the goal which the byproduct is grow growing and then creating margin this is growing and then creating margin this is growing and then creating margin this is hard to describe hard to describe hard to describe but one of the things that helps us do but one of the things that helps us do but one of the things that helps us do what we do is we create a lot of margin what we do is we create a lot of margin what we do is we create a lot of margin in one of the big areas is Financial in one of the big areas is Financial in one of the big areas is Financial margin so how do you launch one or two margin so how do you launch one or two margin so how do you launch one or two or three new locations in a year how do or three new locations in a year how do or three new locations in a year how do you fund the uver B app we have to you fund the uver B app we have to you fund the uver B app we have to create Financial margin to do those create Financial margin to do those create Financial margin to do those things and our philosophy is we're going things and our philosophy is we're going things and our philosophy is we're going to pay for a building before we ever to pay for a building before we ever to pay for a building before we ever break ground that's just what we're able break ground that's just what we're able break ground that's just what we're able to do now it wasn't always that way by to do now it wasn't always that way by to do now it wasn't always that way by any means but we are now so we had any means but we are now so we had any means but we are now so we had really big Financial margin and then really big Financial margin and then really big Financial margin and then suddenly one day we didn't that we we suddenly one day we didn't that we we suddenly one day we didn't that we we started spending more and and we can't started spending more and and we can't started spending more and and we can't grow and effectively do our ministry grow and effectively do our ministry grow and effectively do our ministry without finan margin and so we went from without finan margin and so we went from without finan margin and so we went from a very high percentage to a much lower a very high percentage to a much lower a very high percentage to a much lower percentage and then over the next three percentage and then over the next three percentage and then over the next three years took it to the highest percentage years took it to the highest percentage years took it to the highest percentage ever that's really really important to ever that's really really important to ever that's really really important to us and I think every church needs to us and I think every church needs to us and I think every church needs to understand what are the drivers that understand what are the drivers that understand what are the drivers that help them fulfill their mission and for help them fulfill their mission and for help them fulfill their mission and for us one of them is having the financial us one of them is having the financial us one of them is having the financial margin to grow hire new staff building margin to grow hire new staff building margin to grow hire new staff building campuses and that's that's real campuses and that's that's real campuses and that's that's real important and in simplified processes we important and in simplified processes we important and in simplified processes we just got slow and you can't be slow you just got slow and you can't be slow you just got slow and you can't be slow you can't grow fast if you're slow and you can't grow fast if you're slow and you can't grow fast if you're slow and you know we were bigger and um gr growth know we were bigger and um gr growth know we were bigger and um gr growth creates complexity complexity kills creates complexity complexity kills creates complexity complexity kills growth right and so we were we um worked

growth right and so we were we um worked growth right and so we were we um worked really hard and celebrated every time we really hard and celebrated every time we really hard and celebrated every time we could cut a meeting in half go from you could cut a meeting in half go from you could cut a meeting in half go from you know four meetings a month to two know four meetings a month to two know four meetings a month to two meetings a month or one meeting a month meetings a month or one meeting a month meetings a month or one meeting a month uh not need three signatures but need uh not need three signatures but need uh not need three signatures but need one not needing any signatures at all um one not needing any signatures at all um one not needing any signatures at all um be able to make decisions uh deep in the be able to make decisions uh deep in the be able to make decisions uh deep in the organization rather than needing organization rather than needing organization rather than needing approval so we really really hard to um approval so we really really hard to um approval so we really really hard to um simplify and then document those places simplify and then document those places simplify and then document those places that we were so we could celebrate it that we were so we could celebrate it that we were so we could celebrate it and we talked about it over and over and and we talked about it over and over and and we talked about it over and over and over and over again until I think people over and over again until I think people over and over again until I think people they went from almost getting tired of they went from almost getting tired of they went from almost getting tired of it to then surrendering and going okay it to then surrendering and going okay it to then surrendering and going okay if we're going to talk about it let's if we're going to talk about it let's if we're going to talk about it let's just do it and they did it and we did it just do it and they did it and we did it just do it and they did it and we did it and those three things helped us to and those three things helped us to and those three things helped us to become um effective again and and it become um effective again and and it become um effective again and and it just took more intentionality more time just took more intentionality more time just took more intentionality more time than ever before and and part of it's than ever before and and part of it's than ever before and and part of it's because we're you know we're older because we're you know we're older because we're you know we're older bigger that kind of stuff it's not like bigger that kind of stuff it's not like bigger that kind of stuff it's not like we're leading a team of 12 people but we're leading a team of 12 people but we're leading a team of 12 people but you know hundreds and hundreds across you know hundreds and hundreds across you know hundreds and hundreds across different states and so it just takes different states and so it just takes different states and so it just takes more work and more intentionality but more work and more intentionality but more work and more intentionality but that's one of the things I'm seeing is that's one of the things I'm seeing is that's one of the things I'm seeing is that in leadership today we have to be that in leadership today we have to be that in leadership today we have to be willing to be ridiculously focused be willing to be ridiculously focused be willing to be ridiculously focused be patient and be consistent to really make patient and be consistent to really make patient and be consistent to really make a difference I'm super encouraged a difference I'm super encouraged a difference I'm super encouraged personally that you decided to focus on personally that you decided to focus on personally that you decided to focus on evangelism that it's like we just got to evangelism that it's like we just got to evangelism that it's like we just got to go and Reach people one of my go and Reach people one of my go and Reach people one of my observations over the last 5 years years observations over the last 5 years years observations over the last 5 years years is that a lot of other churches coming is that a lot of other churches coming is that a lot of other churches coming out of the crisis coming out of covid out of the crisis coming out of covid out of the crisis coming out of covid double down on discipleship and I'm double down on discipleship and I'm double down on discipleship and I'm talking a lot about that right now I talking a lot about that right now I talking a lot about that right now I think you know we're five years later

think you know we're five years later think you know we're five years later I'm curious and it's not that I'm curious and it's not that I'm curious and it's not that discipleship isn't important but like discipleship isn't important but like discipleship isn't important but like evangelism is kind of on life support in evangelism is kind of on life support in evangelism is kind of on life support in the church in most churches right now the church in most churches right now the church in most churches right now what made you decide that evangelism was what made you decide that evangelism was what made you decide that evangelism was the right Focus not something else well the right Focus not something else well the right Focus not something else well I you know I think to me evangelist ISM I you know I think to me evangelist ISM I you know I think to me evangelist ISM and discipleship are much more closely and discipleship are much more closely and discipleship are much more closely related than I think a lot of a lot of related than I think a lot of a lot of related than I think a lot of a lot of spiritual leaders recognize and we tend spiritual leaders recognize and we tend spiritual leaders recognize and we tend to pit them against each other like to pit them against each other like to pit them against each other like we're more Evangelistic we're more we're more Evangelistic we're more we're more Evangelistic we're more discipleship oriented and you know Jesus discipleship oriented and you know Jesus discipleship oriented and you know Jesus was really clear when he said go into was really clear when he said go into was really clear when he said go into all the world that's evangelism and make all the world that's evangelism and make all the world that's evangelism and make disciples those those things go handin disciples those those things go handin disciples those those things go handin hand and and if we're discipling well hand and and if we're discipling well hand and and if we're discipling well what are we discipling we're actually what are we discipling we're actually what are we discipling we're actually discipling people to be evangelists and discipling people to be evangelists and discipling people to be evangelists and if we're evangelizing well we we should if we're evangelizing well we we should if we're evangelizing well we we should have a heart for discipleship so to me have a heart for discipleship so to me have a heart for discipleship so to me those things are really not that they those things are really not that they those things are really not that they should never be competing values they should never be competing values they should never be competing values they should always be complimenting values should always be complimenting values should always be complimenting values and I think it's a real mistake when we and I think it's a real mistake when we and I think it's a real mistake when we try to be good at one without the other try to be good at one without the other try to be good at one without the other uh and there's in my mind there should uh and there's in my mind there should uh and there's in my mind there should be no such thing as a church that be no such thing as a church that be no such thing as a church that doesn't care about evangelism first you doesn't care about evangelism first you doesn't care about evangelism first you can't disciple if you don't evangelize can't disciple if you don't evangelize can't disciple if you don't evangelize so you care about evangelism first and so you care about evangelism first and so you care about evangelism first and discipleship is right there in the mix discipleship is right there in the mix discipleship is right there in the mix in the conversation as soon as we in the conversation as soon as we in the conversation as soon as we evangelize we disciple but we have to evangelize we disciple but we have to evangelize we disciple but we have to evangelize in order to disciple and so evangelize in order to disciple and so evangelize in order to disciple and so we start we start we start there I think that's really well said

there I think that's really well said there I think that's really well said I've always seen it I I described it to I've always seen it I I described it to I've always seen it I I described it to leaders because we used to get that leaders because we used to get that leaders because we used to get that criticism a lot because we were all criticism a lot because we were all criticism a lot because we were all about evangelism you know when I led about evangelism you know when I led about evangelism you know when I led Conexus and still today and I'm like Conexus and still today and I'm like Conexus and still today and I'm like look it's an infinite Loop you can't look it's an infinite Loop you can't look it's an infinite Loop you can't have good evangelism without have good evangelism without have good evangelism without discipleship and but you can't have good discipleship and but you can't have good discipleship and but you can't have good discipleship without evangelism the two discipleship without evangelism the two discipleship without evangelism the two and lead to each other um you said that and lead to each other um you said that and lead to each other um you said that you're making small changes that made a you're making small changes that made a you're making small changes that made a big difference to your model so where big difference to your model so where big difference to your model so where Life Church is now now that you're back Life Church is now now that you're back Life Church is now now that you're back now that things are working again let me now that things are working again let me now that things are working again let me back up a little bit how did you know back up a little bit how did you know back up a little bit how did you know you were back what is that moment you were back what is that moment you were back what is that moment because leadership Is Never Done Right because leadership Is Never Done Right because leadership Is Never Done Right it's like working out you don't retire it's like working out you don't retire it's like working out you don't retire you're like all right I've worked out you're like all right I've worked out you're like all right I've worked out enough that you know I'm good I'm good enough that you know I'm good I'm good enough that you know I'm good I'm good for the future how did you know what for the future how did you know what for the future how did you know what gave you the sense that you were quote gave you the sense that you were quote gave you the sense that you were quote back back back well I I I would say we never came in well I I I would say we never came in well I I I would say we never came in and said oh my gosh we're back what what and said oh my gosh we're back what what and said oh my gosh we're back what what happened is there at some point I happened is there at some point I happened is there at some point I started looking up going hey this is fun started looking up going hey this is fun started looking up going hey this is fun again and and it was more of a sense of again and and it was more of a sense of again and and it was more of a sense of now we we're not spending as much time now we we're not spending as much time now we we're not spending as much time correcting problems as much as we are or correcting problems as much as we are or correcting problems as much as we are or or we're we're solving better problems or we're we're solving better problems or we're we're solving better problems we're solving growth problems rather we're solving growth problems rather we're solving growth problems rather than complacent problems and so it's than complacent problems and so it's than complacent problems and so it's it's a little bit just more like um um it's a little bit just more like um um it's a little bit just more like um um we've been planting seeds planting seeds we've been planting seeds planting seeds we've been planting seeds planting seeds and now we're seeing a little bit more and now we're seeing a little bit more and now we're seeing a little bit more of the Harvest come around and so in a of the Harvest come around and so in a of the Harvest come around and so in a in a healthy Church we're always in a healthy Church we're always in a healthy Church we're always planting and we're always harvesting planting and we're always harvesting planting and we're always harvesting there for a few years it just felt like

there for a few years it just felt like there for a few years it just felt like we had to plant plant plant plant plant we had to plant plant plant plant plant we had to plant plant plant plant plant before now the Harvest is coming in and before now the Harvest is coming in and before now the Harvest is coming in and we're replanting and so it's just we're replanting and so it's just we're replanting and so it's just there's more of kind of a multiplication there's more of kind of a multiplication there's more of kind of a multiplication of healthy Ministry today and it just of healthy Ministry today and it just of healthy Ministry today and it just seemed like for a long time it just took seemed like for a long time it just took seemed like for a long time it just took a lot of work to make a lot of work to make a lot of work to make Corrections you're making changes to Corrections you're making changes to Corrections you're making changes to your model of ministry small tweaks your model of ministry small tweaks your model of ministry small tweaks small differences what are what are you small differences what are what are you small differences what are what are you doing um to the model and approach you doing um to the model and approach you doing um to the model and approach you take to Ministry or however you want to take to Ministry or however you want to take to Ministry or however you want to frame it that is sort of optimizing it frame it that is sort of optimizing it frame it that is sort of optimizing it for the moment we're in so I I would say for the moment we're in so I I would say for the moment we're in so I I would say this that we all you know the message this that we all you know the message this that we all you know the message never ever changes we know that and but never ever changes we know that and but never ever changes we know that and but the methods have to always change and I the methods have to always change and I the methods have to always change and I think a a mistake Carrie that I see think a a mistake Carrie that I see think a a mistake Carrie that I see sometimes is a pastor has kind of like sometimes is a pastor has kind of like sometimes is a pastor has kind of like an epiphany or an experience and comes an epiphany or an experience and comes an epiphany or an experience and comes in and blows everything up and tries to in and blows everything up and tries to in and blows everything up and tries to take a what was a Baptist Church to be a take a what was a Baptist Church to be a take a what was a Baptist Church to be a charismatic church or what was a charismatic church or what was a charismatic church or what was a charismatic church to be more uh charismatic church to be more uh charismatic church to be more uh traditional and I think I think that traditional and I think I think that traditional and I think I think that those kind of changes are generally those kind of changes are generally those kind of changes are generally counterproductive almost unfair and bad counterproductive almost unfair and bad counterproductive almost unfair and bad leadership I do think uh a good faithful leadership I do think uh a good faithful leadership I do think uh a good faithful Pastor is going to always be kind of Pastor is going to always be kind of Pastor is going to always be kind of reading what's going on both in the reading what's going on both in the reading what's going on both in the church and in culture what people are church and in culture what people are church and in culture what people are reading how they're thinking um how reading how they're thinking um how reading how they're thinking um how they're relating and and making tweaks they're relating and and making tweaks they're relating and and making tweaks along the way so there'll be a a billion along the way so there'll be a a billion along the way so there'll be a a billion little tweaks none of them uh are

little tweaks none of them uh are little tweaks none of them uh are important on their own but altogether I important on their own but altogether I important on their own but altogether I think they would matter some of them think they would matter some of them think they would matter some of them would be downline for example at all of would be downline for example at all of would be downline for example at all of our locations when when you have m a lot our locations when when you have m a lot our locations when when you have m a lot of locations you start to learn what of locations you start to learn what of locations you start to learn what works and what doesn't in this day and works and what doesn't in this day and works and what doesn't in this day and age how you're making disciples and and age how you're making disciples and and age how you're making disciples and and so you get like a lot of case studies so you get like a lot of case studies so you get like a lot of case studies and then you can start dialing things in and then you can start dialing things in and then you can start dialing things in and so there's a lot of little things and so there's a lot of little things and so there's a lot of little things that were're dialing in from how do we that were're dialing in from how do we that were're dialing in from how do we onboard people to small groups how do we onboard people to small groups how do we onboard people to small groups how do we take people who are brand new to the take people who are brand new to the take people who are brand new to the church and help them get from we just church and help them get from we just church and help them get from we just attend we're actually telling someone attend we're actually telling someone attend we're actually telling someone our name uh we're getting in a place our name uh we're getting in a place our name uh we're getting in a place where we could be disciples so there's where we could be disciples so there's where we could be disciples so there's lots of little things like that they're lots of little things like that they're lots of little things like that they're just technical from how do you get them just technical from how do you get them just technical from how do you get them to give you an email address how do you to give you an email address how do you to give you an email address how do you follow up with them lots things like follow up with them lots things like follow up with them lots things like that the bigger things from my that the bigger things from my that the bigger things from my perspective would be like in perspective would be like in perspective would be like in communication I'm making just uh tweaks communication I'm making just uh tweaks communication I'm making just uh tweaks to preaching the kind of things uh the to preaching the kind of things uh the to preaching the kind of things uh the approach to what I would be saying a approach to what I would be saying a approach to what I would be saying a little bit what goes on kind of behind little bit what goes on kind of behind little bit what goes on kind of behind me so we can talk about any of that you me so we can talk about any of that you me so we can talk about any of that you want to but there's just dozens of want to but there's just dozens of want to but there's just dozens of little things that most people would little things that most people would little things that most people would never know and even if they're not never know and even if they're not never know and even if they're not making a big difference they're just making a big difference they're just making a big difference they're just sometimes it's just helpful to say sometimes it's just helpful to say sometimes it's just helpful to say here's what we're working on and if here's what we're working on and if here's what we're working on and if people know you're working on something people know you're working on something people know you're working on something you just you don't tend to make progress you just you don't tend to make progress you just you don't tend to make progress unless you're intentional so we're going unless you're intentional so we're going unless you're intentional so we're going to be intentional about some things I'll to be intentional about some things I'll to be intentional about some things I'll talk about any anything you want to just talk about any anything you want to just talk about any anything you want to just so ask away I'd love to start with so ask away I'd love to start with so ask away I'd love to start with communication because that's one thing communication because that's one thing communication because that's one thing I've noticed I've followed you for years

I've noticed I've followed you for years I've noticed I've followed you for years and years and years probably not right and years and years probably not right and years and years probably not right back to 1996 when you started but early back to 1996 when you started but early back to 1996 when you started but early 2000s and I noticed that you're very 2000s and I noticed that you're very 2000s and I noticed that you're very good at evolving you're still you if you good at evolving you're still you if you good at evolving you're still you if you see a 20-year-old message from you see a 20-year-old message from you see a 20-year-old message from you you're like that's recognizably Craig you're like that's recognizably Craig you're like that's recognizably Craig but you are changing and evolving as a but you are changing and evolving as a but you are changing and evolving as a communicator do you want to talk about communicator do you want to talk about communicator do you want to talk about some of the conscious decisions you've some of the conscious decisions you've some of the conscious decisions you've made or tweaks or changes you've made in made or tweaks or changes you've made in made or tweaks or changes you've made in your approach to communication and take your approach to communication and take your approach to communication and take that from preaching or the other that from preaching or the other that from preaching or the other leadership stuff you do so my so my dad leadership stuff you do so my so my dad leadership stuff you do so my so my dad was a a coach and in sports he'd always was a a coach and in sports he'd always was a a coach and in sports he'd always say no you know when you're playing say no you know when you're playing say no you know when you're playing you're always working on something and you're always working on something and you're always working on something and so in preaching there's there's always so in preaching there's there's always so in preaching there's there's always something always there's never not something always there's never not something always there's never not something that I'm working on thinking something that I'm working on thinking something that I'm working on thinking about and it would be most of the time about and it would be most of the time about and it would be most of the time there's nobody that would even notice there's nobody that would even notice there's nobody that would even notice but but I'm working on it so some of the but but I'm working on it so some of the but but I'm working on it so some of the little things and I'll give you some little things and I'll give you some little things and I'll give you some different different different categories uh one of the things we all categories uh one of the things we all categories uh one of the things we all know and live church was one of the know and live church was one of the know and live church was one of the first churches to to do like to do first churches to to do like to do first churches to to do like to do Church online and and kind of pioneer Church online and and kind of pioneer Church online and and kind of pioneer that oddly that oddly that oddly enough now I'm starting to realize that enough now I'm starting to realize that enough now I'm starting to realize that what I do or don't do not just you know what I do or don't do not just you know what I do or don't do not just you know I'll look at the camera because that's I'll look at the camera because that's I'll look at the camera because that's you know then you're making eye contact you know then you're making eye contact you know then you're making eye contact I've been doing that for a long time but I've been doing that for a long time but I've been doing that for a long time but even just giving people a chance to even just giving people a chance to even just giving people a chance to interact and reminding them that I know interact and reminding them that I know interact and reminding them that I know that they're there by saying hey if that they're there by saying hey if that they're there by saying hey if you're online type in the com you know you're online type in the com you know you're online type in the com you know just just acknowledging them directly is just just acknowledging them directly is just just acknowledging them directly is is one thing uh recognizing now that for is one thing uh recognizing now that for is one thing uh recognizing now that for years we had more people that would

years we had more people that would years we had more people that would watch this on Church online than in a watch this on Church online than in a watch this on Church online than in a physical attendance but now YouTube is physical attendance but now YouTube is physical attendance but now YouTube is exceeding our physical attendance and so exceeding our physical attendance and so exceeding our physical attendance and so little things like little things like little things like titling we work really hard on titling titling we work really hard on titling titling we work really hard on titling sounds silly uh on creating what I call sounds silly uh on creating what I call sounds silly uh on creating what I call a YouTube hook meaning that we're going a YouTube hook meaning that we're going a YouTube hook meaning that we're going to edit the sermon to start at a certain to edit the sermon to start at a certain to edit the sermon to start at a certain point and at the point which it starts I point and at the point which it starts I point and at the point which it starts I want in the first 30 seconds to try to want in the first 30 seconds to try to want in the first 30 seconds to try to do something that helps keep people do something that helps keep people do something that helps keep people there so it's when I'm communicating in there so it's when I'm communicating in there so it's when I'm communicating in the sermons now I am very aware always the sermons now I am very aware always the sermons now I am very aware always aware that that people have way shorter aware that that people have way shorter aware that that people have way shorter attention spans so I am looking for ways attention spans so I am looking for ways attention spans so I am looking for ways to give them what I'd call like to give them what I'd call like to give them what I'd call like intellectual breaks or emotional breaks intellectual breaks or emotional breaks intellectual breaks or emotional breaks so we're talking about content I've got so we're talking about content I've got so we're talking about content I've got to give them a story it used to be I to give them a story it used to be I to give them a story it used to be I wanted a story because I thought it was wanted a story because I thought it was wanted a story because I thought it was helpful to illustrate now I just got to helpful to illustrate now I just got to helpful to illustrate now I just got to give them a break to bring them back in give them a break to bring them back in give them a break to bring them back in or I'll do what I could just call a or I'll do what I could just call a or I'll do what I could just call a visual change up so if you're looking at visual change up so if you're looking at visual change up so if you're looking at the screen and I've got you know behind the screen and I've got you know behind the screen and I've got you know behind me an LED wall we're going to change the me an LED wall we're going to change the me an LED wall we're going to change the look of that just to like bring someone look of that just to like bring someone look of that just to like bring someone back in and so it's it's just like a a back in and so it's it's just like a a back in and so it's it's just like a a mood change uh I'm doing I'm changing a mood change uh I'm doing I'm changing a mood change uh I'm doing I'm changing a little bit the type of stuff that I'm little bit the type of stuff that I'm little bit the type of stuff that I'm talking on just a little bit and then in talking on just a little bit and then in talking on just a little bit and then in my messages I'm actually coming in more my messages I'm actually coming in more my messages I'm actually coming in more prepared and less prepared at the same prepared and less prepared at the same prepared and less prepared at the same time meaning I'm really working on being time meaning I'm really working on being time meaning I'm really working on being precise and bu building more of a precise and bu building more of a precise and bu building more of a thorough theological case often and I'm thorough theological case often and I'm thorough theological case often and I'm being being being unplanned uh in other areas unplanned uh in other areas unplanned uh in other areas strategically unplanned to let kind of

strategically unplanned to let kind of strategically unplanned to let kind of like the Holy Spirit flow more freely so like the Holy Spirit flow more freely so like the Holy Spirit flow more freely so in parts of the message I'm way more in parts of the message I'm way more in parts of the message I'm way more dialed in with exact vocabulary precise dialed in with exact vocabulary precise dialed in with exact vocabulary precise wording and other parts I'm wording and other parts I'm wording and other parts I'm intentionally not not being hardly intentionally not not being hardly intentionally not not being hardly planned at all and being really really planned at all and being really really planned at all and being really really open to what um the the spirit would open to what um the the spirit would open to what um the the spirit would would lead us to do and so all those would lead us to do and so all those would lead us to do and so all those little things to me add up to um other little things to me add up to um other little things to me add up to um other little things too of I'm trying to be little things too of I'm trying to be little things too of I'm trying to be more myself again to let the be a little more myself again to let the be a little more myself again to let the be a little more raw be a little more authentic and more raw be a little more authentic and more raw be a little more authentic and you have to be kind of strategically you have to be kind of strategically you have to be kind of strategically authentic nowadays you can't be you know authentic nowadays you can't be you know authentic nowadays you can't be you know when everything lives forever you can't when everything lives forever you can't when everything lives forever you can't say everything you really think or feel say everything you really think or feel say everything you really think or feel but but I'm trying to be be more but but I'm trying to be be more but but I'm trying to be be more authentic more real and then talk about authentic more real and then talk about authentic more real and then talk about things that uh push the envelope just a things that uh push the envelope just a things that uh push the envelope just a little bit just a little bit of like can little bit just a little bit of like can little bit just a little bit of like can we really talk about that here yeah we really talk about that here yeah we really talk about that here yeah let's go ahead and do it and so those let's go ahead and do it and so those let's go ahead and do it and so those are just a few of things okay that's a are just a few of things okay that's a are just a few of things okay that's a master class right there and I want to master class right there and I want to master class right there and I want to unpack a little by little so on a very unpack a little by little so on a very unpack a little by little so on a very practical level when you're composing practical level when you're composing practical level when you're composing your message there's kind of a couple of your message there's kind of a couple of your message there's kind of a couple of schools one would be that uh a preacher schools one would be that uh a preacher schools one would be that uh a preacher would say I'm just going to preach and would say I'm just going to preach and would say I'm just going to preach and it's up to the video team to figure out it's up to the video team to figure out it's up to the video team to figure out what the hook is what the handle is all what the hook is what the handle is all what the hook is what the handle is all that stuff you're shaking your head no that stuff you're shaking your head no that stuff you're shaking your head no for those of you who are watching on for those of you who are watching on for those of you who are watching on YouTube so you're involved in thumbnails YouTube so you're involved in thumbnails YouTube so you're involved in thumbnails titling structuring the message so it titling structuring the message so it titling structuring the message so it does well on video can you unpack that a does well on video can you unpack that a does well on video can you unpack that a little bit Yeah so I to me everything

little bit Yeah so I to me everything little bit Yeah so I to me everything matters in communication yeah and it it matters in communication yeah and it it matters in communication yeah and it it sounds it it sounds crazy and some sounds it it sounds crazy and some sounds it it sounds crazy and some people make fun of it we're GNA pick the people make fun of it we're GNA pick the people make fun of it we're GNA pick the an outfit that's color matches the tone an outfit that's color matches the tone an outfit that's color matches the tone of the mood of the of the mood of the of the mood of the message oh yeah because you okay you've message oh yeah because you okay you've message oh yeah because you okay you've talked about this before i s to talked about this before i s to talked about this before i s to interrupt you but you have said I want interrupt you but you have said I want interrupt you but you have said I want what do I want people to know what do I what do I want people to know what do I what do I want people to know what do I want people to do what do I want them to want people to do what do I want them to want people to do what do I want them to feel you have been big on that for I feel you have been big on that for I feel you have been big on that for I don't know a decade plus so let let's go don't know a decade plus so let let's go don't know a decade plus so let let's go there for a minute so so like to me there for a minute so so like to me there for a minute so so like to me everything matters so when when when I'm everything matters so when when when I'm everything matters so when when when I'm doing a message I am actually directing doing a message I am actually directing doing a message I am actually directing the video message as well and I know the video message as well and I know the video message as well and I know this sounds like you know a lot of this sounds like you know a lot of this sounds like you know a lot of people are going go this dumb Overkill people are going go this dumb Overkill people are going go this dumb Overkill whatever and it and it would be for a whatever and it and it would be for a whatever and it and it would be for a lot of places lot of places lot of places but I do one message live and there will but I do one message live and there will but I do one message live and there will be I don't know 200 and some odd be I don't know 200 and some odd be I don't know 200 and some odd services at campuses they all see it on services at campuses they all see it on services at campuses they all see it on video and then Church online there'll be video and then Church online there'll be video and then Church online there'll be more people that see that than the more people that see that than the more people that see that than the campus and then YouTube there'll be more campus and then YouTube there'll be more campus and then YouTube there'll be more people that see that than the campus as people that see that than the campus as people that see that than the campus as well so it in many ways what we're doing well so it in many ways what we're doing well so it in many ways what we're doing is in this day and age is it is visual is in this day and age is it is visual is in this day and age is it is visual communication at is core so I'm communication at is core so I'm communication at is core so I'm directing the message and if I want um a directing the message and if I want um a directing the message and if I want um a tight shot I'm looking at a certain tight shot I'm looking at a certain tight shot I'm looking at a certain camera camera camera if I want to show more body language in if I want to show more body language in if I want to show more body language in expressive I go to a different camera expressive I go to a different camera expressive I go to a different camera and they follow me there and they take a and they follow me there and they take a and they follow me there and they take a different shot if uh and if if they're different shot if uh and if if they're different shot if uh and if if they're not taking me on a tight shot and I want not taking me on a tight shot and I want not taking me on a tight shot and I want to be tight I slow it down I look at the to be tight I slow it down I look at the to be tight I slow it down I look at the camera wait for him to find me because I

camera wait for him to find me because I camera wait for him to find me because I want to say certain things in a way that want to say certain things in a way that want to say certain things in a way that it's it's impactful and someone could it's it's impactful and someone could it's it's impactful and someone could criticize that and I I would even take criticize that and I I would even take criticize that and I I would even take the criticism but in my mind I want to the criticism but in my mind I want to the criticism but in my mind I want to do everything possible to maximize the do everything possible to maximize the do everything possible to maximize the effectiveness of the the the effectiveness of the the the effectiveness of the the the communication and in today's culture in communication and in today's culture in communication and in today's culture in I mean in a Tik Tock era if you're not I mean in a Tik Tock era if you're not I mean in a Tik Tock era if you're not if you're not working to give people if you're not working to give people if you're not working to give people visual communication emotional visual communication emotional visual communication emotional connection um good content alone without connection um good content alone without connection um good content alone without without a a strategy behind it isn't without a a strategy behind it isn't without a a strategy behind it isn't typically going to stick and so we have typically going to stick and so we have typically going to stick and so we have to work harder be more strategic and so to work harder be more strategic and so to work harder be more strategic and so I plan out a lot more like I said of um I plan out a lot more like I said of um I plan out a lot more like I said of um how we're going to demonstrate it show how we're going to demonstrate it show how we're going to demonstrate it show it say it help them feel it and then it say it help them feel it and then it say it help them feel it and then other parts if we don't let it flow and other parts if we don't let it flow and other parts if we don't let it flow and be authentic you can overproduce be authentic you can overproduce be authentic you can overproduce something and so there's going to be something and so there's going to be something and so there's going to be there's always going to be a balance H there's always going to be a balance H there's always going to be a balance H so you're right down into thinking about so you're right down into thinking about so you're right down into thinking about what camera shots you want yes um how what camera shots you want yes um how what camera shots you want yes um how are you approaching titling and are you approaching titling and are you approaching titling and thumbnails I mean we both preached in thumbnails I mean we both preached in thumbnails I mean we both preached in the day where it's just like ah this the day where it's just like ah this the day where it's just like ah this message is called whatever and 90% of message is called whatever and 90% of message is called whatever and 90% of the people wouldn't even know what it's the people wouldn't even know what it's the people wouldn't even know what it's called yeah yeah I'm I'm kind of sad called yeah yeah I'm I'm kind of sad called yeah yeah I'm I'm kind of sad that we have to do this but I kind of that we have to do this but I kind of that we have to do this but I kind of think you kind of do if you have a think you kind of do if you have a think you kind of do if you have a YouTube presence so it's a I mean I'm YouTube presence so it's a I mean I'm YouTube presence so it's a I mean I'm telling you like we have the whole telling you like we have the whole telling you like we have the whole message done I can have a whole series message done I can have a whole series message done I can have a whole series done before even title a message so done before even title a message so done before even title a message so we'll take what we want to do is we want

we'll take what we want to do is we want we'll take what we want to do is we want our titles not to be click bait is where our titles not to be click bait is where our titles not to be click bait is where there they say something that the there they say something that the there they say something that the message is not about you actually betray message is not about you actually betray message is not about you actually betray your audience if you do that but you you your audience if you do that but you you your audience if you do that but you you want your titles to speak to felt needs want your titles to speak to felt needs want your titles to speak to felt needs and so we have a group of people that and so we have a group of people that and so we have a group of people that study it and I think it we'll have a study it and I think it we'll have a study it and I think it we'll have a pretty good title howto whatever and pretty good title howto whatever and pretty good title howto whatever and then they'll come back and say actually then they'll come back and say actually then they'll come back and say actually how-to titles don't really work like how-to titles don't really work like how-to titles don't really work like they don't oh okay well you know and they don't oh okay well you know and they don't oh okay well you know and then then I'll say well why not you I'll then then I'll say well why not you I'll then then I'll say well why not you I'll try to try to learn it and we will I try to try to learn it and we will I try to try to learn it and we will I would say sometimes look at 20 25 30 would say sometimes look at 20 25 30 would say sometimes look at 20 25 30 different titles and work with a team of different titles and work with a team of different titles and work with a team of people that come comes back and says you people that come comes back and says you people that come comes back and says you know here's the one that we think is know here's the one that we think is know here's the one that we think is going to work the best and I'll argue going to work the best and I'll argue going to work the best and I'll argue back and forth and then we'll look at back and forth and then we'll look at back and forth and then we'll look at what's the thumb was the title on the what's the thumb was the title on the what's the thumb was the title on the side and then someone else picks you side and then someone else picks you side and then someone else picks you know the the shot and again like I'm know the the shot and again like I'm know the the shot and again like I'm really sad that it's come to this but if really sad that it's come to this but if really sad that it's come to this but if we really care about reaching people we really care about reaching people we really care about reaching people we're not going to we're not going to we're not going to criticize the mechanisms we're going to criticize the mechanisms we're going to criticize the mechanisms we're going to work with them and if algorithms favor work with them and if algorithms favor work with them and if algorithms favor something um and people are more likely something um and people are more likely something um and people are more likely to click on a message that has this felt to click on a message that has this felt to click on a message that has this felt need Title or hook or whatever then I'm need Title or hook or whatever then I'm need Title or hook or whatever then I'm going to work to um give them that in going to work to um give them that in going to work to um give them that in order to help them get the message that order to help them get the message that order to help them get the message that I believe is going to change your life I believe is going to change your life I believe is going to change your life so I don't want to put words in your so I don't want to put words in your so I don't want to put words in your mouth but you're involved in that mouth but you're involved in that mouth but you're involved in that process number one because you're process number one because you're process number one because you're learning number two is they're kind of learning number two is they're kind of learning number two is they're kind of like an artistic sign off so that you like an artistic sign off so that you like an artistic sign off so that you don't look at YouTube one day and find don't look at YouTube one day and find don't look at YouTube one day and find this crazy Craig grelle pose and these this crazy Craig grelle pose and these this crazy Craig grelle pose and these words that you would never say is it is

words that you would never say is it is words that you would never say is it is it that like it's like hey this is me I it that like it's like hey this is me I it that like it's like hey this is me I want to make sure that no there's a lot want to make sure that no there's a lot want to make sure that no there's a lot of there's a lot of that stuff out there of there's a lot of that stuff out there of there's a lot of that stuff out there that i' never saw exactly exactly yeah I that i' never saw exactly exactly yeah I that i' never saw exactly exactly yeah I actually don't I don't see the um I actually don't I don't see the um I actually don't I don't see the um I don't see the thumb don't see the thumb don't see the thumb someone else chooses that photo so it's someone else chooses that photo so it's someone else chooses that photo so it's not that controlling for me and I I not that controlling for me and I I not that controlling for me and I I don't have time to care about what I don't have time to care about what I don't have time to care about what I look like everywhere but what I do have look like everywhere but what I do have look like everywhere but what I do have time to care about is do I believe that time to care about is do I believe that time to care about is do I believe that this title is going to be the most this title is going to be the most this title is going to be the most effective to draw clicks because the effective to draw clicks because the effective to draw clicks because the difference can be you know it can be difference can be you know it can be difference can be you know it can be hundreds of thousands of views if one hundreds of thousands of views if one hundreds of thousands of views if one gets gets hot and then what you do is gets gets hot and then what you do is gets gets hot and then what you do is you know now it you know I'll go and you know now it you know I'll go and you know now it you know I'll go and visit a campus there will be lots of visit a campus there will be lots of visit a campus there will be lots of lots and lots and lots of people who say lots and lots and lots of people who say lots and lots and lots of people who say oh my gosh I discovered you on Tik Tok I oh my gosh I discovered you on Tik Tok I oh my gosh I discovered you on Tik Tok I found I found this church because of found I found this church because of found I found this church because of YouTube videos and so they're just YouTube videos and so they're just YouTube videos and so they're just they're different streams into the ocean they're different streams into the ocean they're different streams into the ocean of the church and and so it's um at of the church and and so it's um at of the church and and so it's um at whatever level a church is whatever they whatever level a church is whatever they whatever level a church is whatever they use they should be prayerful strategic use they should be prayerful strategic use they should be prayerful strategic and so we're we both yes we respect and and so we're we both yes we respect and and so we're we both yes we respect and honor the power of the Holy Spirit to do honor the power of the Holy Spirit to do honor the power of the Holy Spirit to do what only the power of the Holy Spirit what only the power of the Holy Spirit what only the power of the Holy Spirit can do and we have have wisdom and we're can do and we have have wisdom and we're can do and we have have wisdom and we're strategic and we're prayerful um we put strategic and we're prayerful um we put strategic and we're prayerful um we put all these things together and and the all these things together and and the all these things together and and the bottom line is that as a pastor is you bottom line is that as a pastor is you bottom line is that as a pastor is you want to be doing something that you want to be doing something that you want to be doing something that you believe is GNA make a difference if it's believe is GNA make a difference if it's believe is GNA make a difference if it's just symbolic if you you know if it's just symbolic if you you know if it's just symbolic if you you know if it's just you just kind of think it might just you just kind of think it might just you just kind of think it might make a difference I always want to be make a difference I always want to be make a difference I always want to be driving ourselves to learn to get better

driving ourselves to learn to get better driving ourselves to learn to get better to improve and we're going to be to improve and we're going to be to improve and we're going to be students of what's going on in the world students of what's going on in the world students of what's going on in the world and then we've got to adapt our style of and then we've got to adapt our style of and then we've got to adapt our style of communicating the life-changing message communicating the life-changing message communicating the life-changing message of the Gospel into way that's most of the Gospel into way that's most of the Gospel into way that's most current and viable and so that's what current and viable and so that's what current and viable and so that's what I'm working to do what topics or I'm working to do what topics or I'm working to do what topics or approaches are resonating well today approaches are resonating well today approaches are resonating well today great question so here's what I think great question so here's what I think great question so here's what I think and I think we've talked about this and I think we've talked about this and I think we've talked about this before you know we're in the older before you know we're in the older before you know we're in the older generation now when you when we started generation now when you when we started generation now when you when we started life chch years ago it was cutting life chch years ago it was cutting life chch years ago it was cutting edge like we weren't wearing suits and edge like we weren't wearing suits and edge like we weren't wearing suits and dresses and that was like crazy I dresses and that was like crazy I dresses and that was like crazy I actually started wear a um like khaki actually started wear a um like khaki actually started wear a um like khaki pants and a blazer with no tie and that pants and a blazer with no tie and that pants and a blazer with no tie and that felt wild first time we brought drums felt wild first time we brought drums felt wild first time we brought drums into the church you know we were the into the church you know we were the into the church you know we were the Antichrist videos oh my gosh it outra Antichrist videos oh my gosh it outra Antichrist videos oh my gosh it outra crazy so we things went from pews to crazy so we things went from pews to crazy so we things went from pews to chairs from himels to screens we know chairs from himels to screens we know chairs from himels to screens we know the story um then to bit smaller screens the story um then to bit smaller screens the story um then to bit smaller screens and now even traditional churches are and now even traditional churches are and now even traditional churches are trying to become contemporary and so trying to become contemporary and so trying to become contemporary and so I've told pastors that um contemporary I've told pastors that um contemporary I've told pastors that um contemporary is the new traditional is the new traditional is the new traditional I just think it is I agree the songs I just think it is I agree the songs I just think it is I agree the songs feel the same the stage looks the same feel the same the stage looks the same feel the same the stage looks the same the sermon series are kind of the same the sermon series are kind of the same the sermon series are kind of the same and there's nothing wrong with that and there's nothing wrong with that and there's nothing wrong with that inherently but I I think that some inherently but I I think that some inherently but I I think that some people are getting bored with what I people are getting bored with what I people are getting bored with what I call Christian cool or contemporary cool call Christian cool or contemporary cool call Christian cool or contemporary cool maybe maybe I'm just getting bored with maybe maybe I'm just getting bored with maybe maybe I'm just getting bored with contemporary cool so I don't think that

contemporary cool so I don't think that contemporary cool so I don't think that the church is going to like radically the church is going to like radically the church is going to like radically shift back to um the Apostles Creed and shift back to um the Apostles Creed and shift back to um the Apostles Creed and the doxology and stuff like this but the doxology and stuff like this but the doxology and stuff like this but what I do think Carrie and I'm seeing what I do think Carrie and I'm seeing what I do think Carrie and I'm seeing enough evidence to believe it's worth enough evidence to believe it's worth enough evidence to believe it's worth paying attention to I'm seeing younger paying attention to I'm seeing younger paying attention to I'm seeing younger Christians uh 18-year-old 23-year-old Christians uh 18-year-old 23-year-old Christians uh 18-year-old 23-year-old carrying paper Bibles into church all carrying paper Bibles into church all carrying paper Bibles into church all the the the time I'm I'm seeing what I'd call like a time I'm I'm seeing what I'd call like a time I'm I'm seeing what I'd call like a hunger for kind of historic hunger for kind of historic hunger for kind of historic Christianity and so I did a message Christianity and so I did a message Christianity and so I did a message series uh we called it the arrival it series uh we called it the arrival it series uh we called it the arrival it was on Advent and you know just was on Advent and you know just was on Advent and you know just something that advent started 400 years something that advent started 400 years something that advent started 400 years into the church and it was this this and into the church and it was this this and into the church and it was this this and then we talked about four different then we talked about four different then we talked about four different things we lit candles and we showed things we lit candles and we showed things we lit candles and we showed technology on the wall and so it was it technology on the wall and so it was it technology on the wall and so it was it was both it felt like a a historic was both it felt like a a historic was both it felt like a a historic observance of the Christian faith with observance of the Christian faith with observance of the Christian faith with kind of a modern presentation and people kind of a modern presentation and people kind of a modern presentation and people seem really intrigued by that drawn to seem really intrigued by that drawn to seem really intrigued by that drawn to it strangely so if I had done that if I it strangely so if I had done that if I it strangely so if I had done that if I had done that five years ago they'd be had done that five years ago they'd be had done that five years ago they'd be like where's Desperate Housewives and like where's Desperate Housewives and like where's Desperate Housewives and you know why are you doing Advent and uh you know why are you doing Advent and uh you know why are you doing Advent and uh it it feels to me it at least more it it feels to me it at least more it it feels to me it at least more authentic to where I am and I think more authentic to where I am and I think more authentic to where I am and I think more authentic to where people are and so I'm authentic to where people are and so I'm authentic to where people are and so I'm doing a little bit of that in January of doing a little bit of that in January of doing a little bit of that in January of this year instead of doing like habits this year instead of doing like habits this year instead of doing like habits or kind of you know new year new you or or kind of you know new year new you or or kind of you know new year new you or year the Breakthrough or whatever we're year the Breakthrough or whatever we're year the Breakthrough or whatever we're doing kind of what i' call a hardcore doing kind of what i' call a hardcore doing kind of what i' call a hardcore gritty um spiritual formation series and

gritty um spiritual formation series and gritty um spiritual formation series and it's I think it's resonating well so to it's I think it's resonating well so to it's I think it's resonating well so to me I just want to be one step ahead not me I just want to be one step ahead not me I just want to be one step ahead not not because we're competitive but I not because we're competitive but I not because we're competitive but I don't I want I don't want to be don't I want I don't want to be don't I want I don't want to be following the trend I want to be following the trend I want to be following the trend I want to be sensitive to where God's leading us and sensitive to where God's leading us and sensitive to where God's leading us and he and I and I promise he's not leading he and I and I promise he's not leading he and I and I promise he's not leading every Church to the same place but if every Church to the same place but if every Church to the same place but if we're tuned in he's leading us all we're tuned in he's leading us all we're tuned in he's leading us all somewhere so for us I'm looking at how somewhere so for us I'm looking at how somewhere so for us I'm looking at how can we continue to be a little more can we continue to be a little more can we continue to be a little more grounded in some of the tenants of the grounded in some of the tenants of the grounded in some of the tenants of the faith and also how can we be way more faith and also how can we be way more faith and also how can we be way more authentic and not like cool authentic authentic and not like cool authentic authentic and not like cool authentic I'm just talking about like talking I'm just talking about like talking I'm just talking about like talking about about about real stuff real questions real doubts real stuff real questions real doubts real stuff real questions real doubts real real real fears and so I'm trying to bring a fears and so I'm trying to bring a fears and so I'm trying to bring a little bit more of myself to that and I little bit more of myself to that and I little bit more of myself to that and I think in 2020 is I just got more think in 2020 is I just got more think in 2020 is I just got more conservative more cautious and kind of conservative more cautious and kind of conservative more cautious and kind of the peak of the cancel culture and now the peak of the cancel culture and now the peak of the cancel culture and now I'm going back to going well if they I'm going back to going well if they I'm going back to going well if they cancel me at least let them cancel me cancel me at least let them cancel me cancel me at least let them cancel me for being me not me trying to be for being me not me trying to be for being me not me trying to be somebody else and uh so I'm I'm I'm somebody else and uh so I'm I'm I'm somebody else and uh so I'm I'm I'm trying to really keep it a little more trying to really keep it a little more trying to really keep it a little more raw just a little bit more real and um a raw just a little bit more real and um a raw just a little bit more real and um a little bit pointed not toward hey let's little bit pointed not toward hey let's little bit pointed not toward hey let's be a cool church but let's be grounded be a cool church but let's be grounded be a cool church but let's be grounded in the the truths of what's kept us CH in the the truths of what's kept us CH in the the truths of what's kept us CH Christ Centered for 2,000 years what Christ Centered for 2,000 years what Christ Centered for 2,000 years what would some examples of that move toward

would some examples of that move toward would some examples of that move toward authenticity authenticity authenticity transparency uh what would that be how transparency uh what would that be how transparency uh what would that be how are you more transparent and you than are you more transparent and you than are you more transparent and you than you might have you might have you might have 10 years I did I did a message last week 10 years I did I did a message last week 10 years I did I did a message last week on it's kind of on on idolatry and the on it's kind of on on idolatry and the on it's kind of on on idolatry and the jealousy of God and and about how we put jealousy of God and and about how we put jealousy of God and and about how we put things ahead of God and I was just things ahead of God and I was just things ahead of God and I was just really uh I was just really transparent really uh I was just really transparent really uh I was just really transparent in talking about how you know for way in talking about how you know for way in talking about how you know for way too long that like people pleasing has too long that like people pleasing has too long that like people pleasing has been is is a form of idolatry and that's been is is a form of idolatry and that's been is is a form of idolatry and that's been you know something that I've just been you know something that I've just been you know something that I've just given into just wanted to be liked and given into just wanted to be liked and given into just wanted to be liked and wanted to be respected and that's wanted to be respected and that's wanted to be respected and that's impacted what I've said or hadn't said impacted what I've said or hadn't said impacted what I've said or hadn't said and I just got real transparent about and I just got real transparent about and I just got real transparent about that it wasn't any thing that I kind of that it wasn't any thing that I kind of that it wasn't any thing that I kind of haven't said before but I just let it be haven't said before but I just let it be haven't said before but I just let it be a little bit more true there's a way we a little bit more true there's a way we a little bit more true there's a way we can be selectively and protectively can be selectively and protectively can be selectively and protectively authentic and there's a way we can let authentic and there's a way we can let authentic and there's a way we can let the guard down a little bit more let the the guard down a little bit more let the the guard down a little bit more let the guard down a little bit more and then guard down a little bit more and then guard down a little bit more and then when I was praying I like when I was praying I like when I was praying I like genuinely was repenting that this was genuinely was repenting that this was genuinely was repenting that this was the part that was a little bit the part that was a little bit the part that was a little bit unscripted is I just kind of got this unscripted is I just kind of got this unscripted is I just kind of got this sick of like I really am sick of this in sick of like I really am sick of this in sick of like I really am sick of this in me and I am repenting I just like me and I am repenting I just like me and I am repenting I just like genuinely was repenting before God in genuinely was repenting before God in genuinely was repenting before God in our church just happened to be there our church just happened to be there our church just happened to be there watching and it was just it was very watching and it was just it was very watching and it was just it was very very real just very real and I think very real just very real and I think very real just very real and I think that's the the goal of that first of all that's the the goal of that first of all that's the the goal of that first of all is just to be that to to be genuine and is just to be that to to be genuine and is just to be that to to be genuine and the byproduct I think is that it's going the byproduct I think is that it's going the byproduct I think is that it's going to be connecting with more to be connecting with more to be connecting with more people how do you determine the line people how do you determine the line people how do you determine the line between what is privately sharable and

between what is privately sharable and between what is privately sharable and publicly sharable because I think we all publicly sharable because I think we all publicly sharable because I think we all know there's a line there there there is know there's a line there there there is know there's a line there there there is a line and that's a really good question a line and that's a really good question a line and that's a really good question um I have found that there I'm more careful in some areas there I'm more careful in some areas than I used to be because information than I used to be because information than I used to be because information lives forever and people actually read lives forever and people actually read lives forever and people actually read into stuff that's not always true so if into stuff that's not always true so if into stuff that's not always true so if I'm talking about someone I'm talking about someone I'm talking about someone else I'm gonna be really really really else I'm gonna be really really really else I'm gonna be really really really careful um I'm really careful now about careful um I'm really careful now about careful um I'm really careful now about like family members we'll use our family like family members we'll use our family like family members we'll use our family as an illustration and what I found is as an illustration and what I found is as an illustration and what I found is there sometimes a kid will like it and there sometimes a kid will like it and there sometimes a kid will like it and then 5 years L they won't and so I don't then 5 years L they won't and so I don't then 5 years L they won't and so I don't just let them sign off for now I want to just let them sign off for now I want to just let them sign off for now I want to say are they going to be happy with this say are they going to be happy with this say are they going to be happy with this later on so I'm I'm way more careful later on so I'm I'm way more careful later on so I'm I'm way more careful with anything that involves other people with anything that involves other people with anything that involves other people and I'm trying to be a little bit less and I'm trying to be a little bit less and I'm trying to be a little bit less careful in in what directly impacts me careful in in what directly impacts me careful in in what directly impacts me and so I think a lot of times as and so I think a lot of times as and so I think a lot of times as communicators we actually want to make communicators we actually want to make communicators we actually want to make ourselves look good you know and so you ourselves look good you know and so you ourselves look good you know and so you can you can be like strategically like can you can be like strategically like can you can be like strategically like vulnerable because that that works I vulnerable because that that works I vulnerable because that that works I don't want to be just strategically don't want to be just strategically don't want to be just strategically vulnerable because it works I just want vulnerable because it works I just want vulnerable because it works I just want to be vulnerable I'm like I'm tired of to be vulnerable I'm like I'm tired of to be vulnerable I'm like I'm tired of the game right I just say yeah okay so I the game right I just say yeah okay so I the game right I just say yeah okay so I really do have hurts too and um but I really do have hurts too and um but I really do have hurts too and um but I you just you have to be really really you just you have to be really really you just you have to be really really wise and um you can go too far I think wise and um you can go too far I think wise and um you can go too far I think it I think uh I listen more to other it I think uh I listen more to other it I think uh I listen more to other people around me so I'll ask a lot of people around me so I'll ask a lot of people around me so I'll ask a lot of people before using something and if Amy

people before using something and if Amy people before using something and if Amy hesitates then it's an immediate no if a hesitates then it's an immediate no if a hesitates then it's an immediate no if a trusted team around says yeah you trusted team around says yeah you trusted team around says yeah you probably better not you know I just probably better not you know I just probably better not you know I just don't in the past I would often kind of don't in the past I would often kind of don't in the past I would often kind of overrule them so I'm listening more and overrule them so I'm listening more and overrule them so I'm listening more and and I'm working to be so so we have to and I'm working to be so so we have to and I'm working to be so so we have to be both careful and we have to be be both careful and we have to be be both careful and we have to be aggressive so we want to be careful not aggressive so we want to be careful not aggressive so we want to be careful not to hurt others or say the wrong thing to hurt others or say the wrong thing to hurt others or say the wrong thing but if we're not working to really find but if we're not working to really find but if we're not working to really find authentic moments it's just going to authentic moments it's just going to authentic moments it's just going to become canned and faked and we can't we become canned and faked and we can't we become canned and faked and we can't we we just we can't we don't have time for we just we can't we don't have time for we just we can't we don't have time for that it's too important right anything that it's too important right anything that it's too important right anything else on communication else on communication else on communication Craig um I I think that uh you I've heard you I I think that uh you I've heard you talk a lot about and write about AI I talk a lot about and write about AI I talk a lot about and write about AI I think that I think that AI is going to think that I think that AI is going to think that I think that AI is going to be both um a gift and a curse to us and be both um a gift and a curse to us and be both um a gift and a curse to us and so we're G have to be real careful how so we're G have to be real careful how so we're G have to be real careful how we use it I'm using it quite a bit but we use it I'm using it quite a bit but we use it I'm using it quite a bit but I'm using it for prompts for basically I'm using it for prompts for basically I'm using it for prompts for basically um I'm asking asking all sorts of random um I'm asking asking all sorts of random um I'm asking asking all sorts of random questions but man we cannot let it questions but man we cannot let it questions but man we cannot let it replace the um the human encounter with replace the um the human encounter with replace the um the human encounter with God and so I'm both optimistic and God and so I'm both optimistic and God and so I'm both optimistic and afraid of it I'm optimistic because I afraid of it I'm optimistic because I afraid of it I'm optimistic because I think it can be helpful but when it think it can be helpful but when it think it can be helpful but when it starts to replace our own private study starts to replace our own private study starts to replace our own private study devotion devotion devotion creativity I think is going to be very creativity I think is going to be very creativity I think is going to be very counterproductive so uh I would just say counterproductive so uh I would just say counterproductive so uh I would just say use wisely I worry about that too Craig use wisely I worry about that too Craig use wisely I worry about that too Craig I mean I have a LoveHate relationship I mean I have a LoveHate relationship I mean I have a LoveHate relationship with AI but it's the moment we're in and with AI but it's the moment we're in and with AI but it's the moment we're in and you know it didn't surprise God as

you know it didn't surprise God as you know it didn't surprise God as people have said and I find it's it's a people have said and I find it's it's a people have said and I find it's it's a really good critic it's a really good really good critic it's a really good really good critic it's a really good brainstorm tool I mean you and I brainstorm tool I mean you and I brainstorm tool I mean you and I probably we have great teams around us probably we have great teams around us probably we have great teams around us but you sit in a brainstorming meeting but you sit in a brainstorming meeting but you sit in a brainstorming meeting for an hour and sometimes you're like I for an hour and sometimes you're like I for an hour and sometimes you're like I think we have a half good idea I'm not think we have a half good idea I'm not think we have a half good idea I'm not sure I go to chat GPT it's like okay sure I go to chat GPT it's like okay sure I go to chat GPT it's like okay here's my rough notes what would you here's my rough notes what would you here's my rough notes what would you call this give me 10 options or do that call this give me 10 options or do that call this give me 10 options or do that with Claude And I'm like some of these with Claude And I'm like some of these with Claude And I'm like some of these are brilliant like whoa I don't know how are brilliant like whoa I don't know how are brilliant like whoa I don't know how long that would have taken us to get long that would have taken us to get long that would have taken us to get with humans around the table and you with humans around the table and you with humans around the table and you always you vet it you check it back with always you vet it you check it back with always you vet it you check it back with your team and that kind of thing what your team and that kind of thing what your team and that kind of thing what are some of the more Innovative uses or are some of the more Innovative uses or are some of the more Innovative uses or um helpful uses that you found for AI um helpful uses that you found for AI um helpful uses that you found for AI this episode is brought to you by this episode is brought to you by this episode is brought to you by church. te if you're not leaning into church. te if you're not leaning into church. te if you're not leaning into the world of AI and all the ways it can the world of AI and all the ways it can the world of AI and all the ways it can help your weekly workflow you're missing help your weekly workflow you're missing help your weekly workflow you're missing out so let me introduce you to church. out so let me introduce you to church. out so let me introduce you to church. te aai the latest Innovation from our te aai the latest Innovation from our te aai the latest Innovation from our friends at church. Tech youve probably friends at church. Tech youve probably friends at church. Tech youve probably heard of tools like chat GPT or Claud heard of tools like chat GPT or Claud heard of tools like chat GPT or Claud right well imagine having that same AI right well imagine having that same AI right well imagine having that same AI power but designed specifically for the power but designed specifically for the power but designed specifically for the church with faith aligned guard rails to church with faith aligned guard rails to church with faith aligned guard rails to keep everything rooted in Christian keep everything rooted in Christian keep everything rooted in Christian beliefs and here's the kicker church.

beliefs and here's the kicker church. beliefs and here's the kicker church. teai is completely customizable to your teai is completely customizable to your teai is completely customizable to your church add your mission and belief church add your mission and belief church add your mission and belief statements and it adapts to create statements and it adapts to create statements and it adapts to create content for your Church's unique voice content for your Church's unique voice content for your Church's unique voice imagine having an AI solution that imagine having an AI solution that imagine having an AI solution that aligns with your beliefs but it doesn't aligns with your beliefs but it doesn't aligns with your beliefs but it doesn't stop there it also gives you instant stop there it also gives you instant stop there it also gives you instant access to all your church sermons if you access to all your church sermons if you access to all your church sermons if you need to pull a quote from last year's need to pull a quote from last year's need to pull a quote from last year's Easter Sermon done if you want Easter Sermon done if you want Easter Sermon done if you want inspiration from past sermon topics inspiration from past sermon topics inspiration from past sermon topics you've got it all in seconds and guess you've got it all in seconds and guess you've got it all in seconds and guess what it's an affordable tool it's a what it's an affordable tool it's a what it's an affordable tool it's a fraction of the cost of other AI tools fraction of the cost of other AI tools fraction of the cost of other AI tools out there like chat GPT Claude or others out there like chat GPT Claude or others out there like chat GPT Claude or others so to claim it go to church. Tech and so to claim it go to church. Tech and so to claim it go to church. Tech and enter the promo code carry Cy at enter the promo code carry Cy at enter the promo code carry Cy at checkout for 25% off for the first three checkout for 25% off for the first three checkout for 25% off for the first three months you'll be glad you did just use months you'll be glad you did just use months you'll be glad you did just use the code carry church. te you'll get 25% the code carry church. te you'll get 25% the code carry church. te you'll get 25% off for the first three months well I off for the first three months well I off for the first three months well I think you're right uh you do have to think you're right uh you do have to think you're right uh you do have to check a lot because a lot of times I'll check a lot because a lot of times I'll check a lot because a lot of times I'll ask it a question it'll come back give ask it a question it'll come back give ask it a question it'll come back give me an answer be real definitive and I'll me an answer be real definitive and I'll me an answer be real definitive and I'll look at up it's wrong so oh 100% yeah WR look at up it's wrong so oh 100% yeah WR look at up it's wrong so oh 100% yeah WR little little things I'll do like uh I little little things I'll do like uh I little little things I'll do like uh I mean I I I will ask it dozens of mean I I I will ask it dozens of mean I I I will ask it dozens of questions every day I was talking on the questions every day I was talking on the questions every day I was talking on the jealousy of God and like is is there jealousy of God and like is is there jealousy of God and like is is there anything interesting about um the anything interesting about um the anything interesting about um the history of of um the root word of history of of um the root word of history of of um the root word of jealousy and uh and so I learned I jealousy and uh and so I learned I jealousy and uh and so I learned I didn't know but the Hebrew word is Kan didn't know but the Hebrew word is Kan didn't know but the Hebrew word is Kan um QA na a is human jealousy and when

um QA na a is human jealousy and when um QA na a is human jealousy and when there's a second n that's a that's a there's a second n that's a that's a there's a second n that's a that's a Hebrew intensifier and that takes it Hebrew intensifier and that takes it Hebrew intensifier and that takes it that then the second n QA nna means it's that then the second n QA nna means it's that then the second n QA nna means it's Ed of God alone and only of God and Ed of God alone and only of God and Ed of God alone and only of God and never of anybody else of God and it never of anybody else of God and it never of anybody else of God and it takes the jealousy to the infinite takes the jealousy to the infinite takes the jealousy to the infinite degree of and it's a righteous degree of and it's a righteous degree of and it's a righteous protective jealousy it's a little thing protective jealousy it's a little thing protective jealousy it's a little thing that I just asked I don't think I would that I just asked I don't think I would that I just asked I don't think I would found found found I I I didn't know it knew Hebrew of I I I didn't know it knew Hebrew of I I I didn't know it knew Hebrew of course it knows Hebrew yeah second noon course it knows Hebrew yeah second noon course it knows Hebrew yeah second noon at the end and so I don't think I would at the end and so I don't think I would at the end and so I don't think I would have found that Googling the word and so have found that Googling the word and so have found that Googling the word and so then I double checked it and kind of did then I double checked it and kind of did then I double checked it and kind of did a deep dive I will use it from a deep dive I will use it from a deep dive I will use it from everything from like give me titles to everything from like give me titles to everything from like give me titles to this I'll put in something and say uh this I'll put in something and say uh this I'll put in something and say uh I'll put in a message and say critique I'll put in a message and say critique I'll put in a message and say critique this where's it weak and it is this where's it weak and it is this where's it weak and it is surprisingly good surprisingly good at surprisingly good surprisingly good at surprisingly good surprisingly good at times uh and so I'll ask it all sorts of times uh and so I'll ask it all sorts of times uh and so I'll ask it all sorts of ridiculous questions I'll I'll ask it ridiculous questions I'll I'll ask it ridiculous questions I'll I'll ask it about tell me what people would say in about tell me what people would say in about tell me what people would say in their mind about this subject and I'll their mind about this subject and I'll their mind about this subject and I'll prompt it and and say you know if what prompt it and and say you know if what prompt it and and say you know if what kind of excuses would people make and so kind of excuses would people make and so kind of excuses would people make and so the problem I have is I generally know the problem I have is I generally know the problem I have is I generally know what a what a what a 57-year-old married white guy who's been 57-year-old married white guy who's been 57-year-old married white guy who's been preaching for 30 years is going to think preaching for 30 years is going to think preaching for 30 years is going to think but I don't know what a 22y old um black but I don't know what a 22y old um black but I don't know what a 22y old um black girl who studying psychology who grew up girl who studying psychology who grew up girl who studying psychology who grew up in Kenya and moved to I don't know what in Kenya and moved to I don't know what in Kenya and moved to I don't know what she's thinking and so I'll ask what do she's thinking and so I'll ask what do she's thinking and so I'll ask what do different people think about this and different people think about this and different people think about this and and try to get inside the minds of and try to get inside the minds of and try to get inside the minds of people uh I'd ask what arguments would people uh I'd ask what arguments would people uh I'd ask what arguments would you have against this if you're not a you have against this if you're not a you have against this if you're not a Christian how would you critique it if Christian how would you critique it if Christian how would you critique it if you're a Christian who knows more than

you're a Christian who knows more than you're a Christian who knows more than me how would you critique it and so I'm me how would you critique it and so I'm me how would you critique it and so I'm just I ask it all sorts of weird random just I ask it all sorts of weird random just I ask it all sorts of weird random questions like that then Carrie questions like that then Carrie questions like that then Carrie sometimes I get so stuck in it I say no sometimes I get so stuck in it I say no sometimes I get so stuck in it I say no more I'm done I'm not going to look at more I'm done I'm not going to look at more I'm done I'm not going to look at it again today because I don't want to it again today because I don't want to it again today because I don't want to become over relying on it and so then I become over relying on it and so then I become over relying on it and so then I put it aside and forc myself not to use put it aside and forc myself not to use put it aside and forc myself not to use it anymore so it's it just needs to be a it anymore so it's it just needs to be a it anymore so it's it just needs to be a tool tool tool but not something we want to rely on but not something we want to rely on but not something we want to rely on solely what are okay because some people solely what are okay because some people solely what are okay because some people are going to uh comment or message us are going to uh comment or message us are going to uh comment or message us and say okay what are the changes you're and say okay what are the changes you're and say okay what are the changes you're making on Guest Services we talked about making on Guest Services we talked about making on Guest Services we talked about that 20 minutes ago uh that you're that 20 minutes ago uh that you're that 20 minutes ago uh that you're making some tweaks in assimilating making some tweaks in assimilating making some tweaks in assimilating people when they're new uh I would love people when they're new uh I would love people when they're new uh I would love to know and sort of Under the Umbrella to know and sort of Under the Umbrella to know and sort of Under the Umbrella of you know content used to be scarce of you know content used to be scarce of you know content used to be scarce now it's everywhere and obviously you now it's everywhere and obviously you now it's everywhere and obviously you work as hard as you can possibly work on work as hard as you can possibly work on work as hard as you can possibly work on your content most of the people listen your content most of the people listen your content most of the people listen work very hard on their content but work very hard on their content but work very hard on their content but you're in a universe that's flooded with you're in a universe that's flooded with you're in a universe that's flooded with content people are isolated people are content people are isolated people are content people are isolated people are lonely um depression is high what lonely um depression is high what lonely um depression is high what changes are you making to community changes are you making to community changes are you making to community because you and I have talked about this because you and I have talked about this because you and I have talked about this before right but I I think if content is before right but I I think if content is before right but I I think if content is scarce um content is valuable now scarce um content is valuable now scarce um content is valuable now content is plentiful but Community is content is plentiful but Community is content is plentiful but Community is scarce so how do you ele how are you scarce so how do you ele how are you scarce so how do you ele how are you elevating community at Life church so elevating community at Life church so elevating community at Life church so one of the things I'm trying to do in one of the things I'm trying to do in one of the things I'm trying to do in every message is is to mention the value every message is is to mention the value every message is is to mention the value of community somewhere in there and so of community somewhere in there and so of community somewhere in there and so you know I'm not going to do a message you know I'm not going to do a message you know I'm not going to do a message without presenting the gospel I'm always without presenting the gospel I'm always without presenting the gospel I'm always going to talk about who Jesus is and going to talk about who Jesus is and going to talk about who Jesus is and what he did for us and at the same time what he did for us and at the same time what he did for us and at the same time I think in today's culture that helping

I think in today's culture that helping I think in today's culture that helping people know the value of community and people know the value of community and people know the value of community and recognizing that real strong spiritual recognizing that real strong spiritual recognizing that real strong spiritual Community never almost never ever Community never almost never ever Community never almost never ever happens in is sustained accidentally happens in is sustained accidentally happens in is sustained accidentally that there has to be some level of that there has to be some level of that there has to be some level of commitment to it and so in in every commitment to it and so in in every commitment to it and so in in every message and it can be as little as we're message and it can be as little as we're message and it can be as little as we're going to talk about this in our life going to talk about this in our life going to talk about this in our life groups because we value people and it's groups because we value people and it's groups because we value people and it's hard to do life together and how can you hard to do life together and how can you hard to do life together and how can you how can you ever be effective how can you ever be effective how can you ever be effective spiritually with some without you spiritually with some without you spiritually with some without you without people praying for you and without people praying for you and without people praying for you and people there in your life you know or people there in your life you know or people there in your life you know or you know we're going to talk about this you know we're going to talk about this you know we're going to talk about this in our life groups because if you and if in our life groups because if you and if in our life groups because if you and if you're sick and tired of like not having you're sick and tired of like not having you're sick and tired of like not having someone there for you and not having someone there for you and not having someone there for you and not having someone to go to then this is your week someone to go to then this is your week someone to go to then this is your week and so that that's one thing is just um and so that that's one thing is just um and so that that's one thing is just um me trying to model it and then the other me trying to model it and then the other me trying to model it and then the other thing Carrie this is kind of weird we're thing Carrie this is kind of weird we're thing Carrie this is kind of weird we're we're really becoming increasingly we're really becoming increasingly we're really becoming increasingly flexible on what we would consider flexible on what we would consider flexible on what we would consider Community it used to be there had to be Community it used to be there had to be Community it used to be there had to be like real structure around a uh life like real structure around a uh life like real structure around a uh life groups meet on Tuesday night at 7 to groups meet on Tuesday night at 7 to groups meet on Tuesday night at 7 to nine o'clock and we go through pastor's nine o'clock and we go through pastor's nine o'clock and we go through pastor's message or we're going through a book of message or we're going through a book of message or we're going through a book of you know on end times or whatever it you know on end times or whatever it you know on end times or whatever it would be and and a lot of structure to would be and and a lot of structure to would be and and a lot of structure to it and now we're kind of saying you know it and now we're kind of saying you know it and now we're kind of saying you know what if you get together with two what if you get together with two what if you get together with two couples um for dinner and pray for each couples um for dinner and pray for each couples um for dinner and pray for each other that actually can if you're doing other that actually can if you're doing other that actually can if you're doing it intentionally and you're doing it it intentionally and you're doing it it intentionally and you're doing it consistently that's a form of community consistently that's a form of community consistently that's a form of community so we're broadening so we're broadening so we're broadening out what it means to be doing life out what it means to be doing life out what it means to be doing life together and the key it used to have to together and the key it used to have to together and the key it used to have to be more structured to count and now be more structured to count and now be more structured to count and now we're trying to do is say hey if you can

we're trying to do is say hey if you can we're trying to do is say hey if you can just be intentional about it even even just be intentional about it even even just be intentional about it even even if we don't count it it counts meaning if we don't count it it counts meaning if we don't count it it counts meaning we don't have to measure it for it to be we don't have to measure it for it to be we don't have to measure it for it to be successful we just have to help you successful we just have to help you successful we just have to help you create the elements that make it create the elements that make it create the elements that make it successful for you and so it's a little successful for you and so it's a little successful for you and so it's a little bit less of uh we want our numbers to bit less of uh we want our numbers to bit less of uh we want our numbers to work as much as we want it to work for work as much as we want it to work for work as much as we want it to work for people and so those just a little bit of people and so those just a little bit of people and so those just a little bit of the ways where we're we're Loosely the ways where we're we're Loosely the ways where we're we're Loosely trying to work to to be um help trying to work to to be um help trying to work to to be um help people some people can't commit to do people some people can't commit to do people some people can't commit to do the same night four weeks in a row the same night four weeks in a row the same night four weeks in a row forever so let's let's work with what forever so let's let's work with what forever so let's let's work with what they have and give them permission uh to they have and give them permission uh to they have and give them permission uh to do whatever works and helps do whatever works and helps do whatever works and helps them you've told me that sometimes them you've told me that sometimes them you've told me that sometimes leading through success ful periods can leading through success ful periods can leading through success ful periods can be more challenging than leading through be more challenging than leading through be more challenging than leading through crisis so things are stable and growing crisis so things are stable and growing crisis so things are stable and growing and back to where you hope they would be and back to where you hope they would be and back to where you hope they would be you're excited about the future how is you're excited about the future how is you're excited about the future how is that sometimes more challenging than that sometimes more challenging than that sometimes more challenging than leading through a crisis like we all leading through a crisis like we all leading through a crisis like we all experienced a few years ago so here experienced a few years ago so here experienced a few years ago so here here's what I think Carri there's I here's what I think Carri there's I here's what I think Carri there's I think that you know um the longer you think that you know um the longer you think that you know um the longer you lead the more you're going to recognize lead the more you're going to recognize lead the more you're going to recognize there are different seasons than you've there are different seasons than you've there are different seasons than you've seen before there's a startup season seen before there's a startup season seen before there's a startup season you're leading through you know startup you're leading through you know startup you're leading through you know startup there's there's leading through ser there's there's leading through ser there's there's leading through ser periods of high momentum there's leading periods of high momentum there's leading periods of high momentum there's leading through times of um a dip a decline through times of um a dip a decline through times of um a dip a decline there's leading through crisis there's there's leading through crisis there's there's leading through crisis there's leading out of a crisis um now that leading out of a crisis um now that leading out of a crisis um now that things it in most pastors I'm talking to things it in most pastors I'm talking to things it in most pastors I'm talking to now are saying oh I feel like I'm a

now are saying oh I feel like I'm a now are saying oh I feel like I'm a little bit more mentally healthy than I little bit more mentally healthy than I little bit more mentally healthy than I was before you I feel I got a little bit was before you I feel I got a little bit was before you I feel I got a little bit hope than I did before things are hope than I did before things are hope than I did before things are they're a little bit better things are a they're a little bit better things are a they're a little bit better things are a lot better whatever it is what I am now lot better whatever it is what I am now lot better whatever it is what I am now recognizing is I think I'm seeing more recognizing is I think I'm seeing more recognizing is I think I'm seeing more of a hands off approach to leadership of a hands off approach to leadership of a hands off approach to leadership kind of like a sigh of relief and the kind of like a sigh of relief and the kind of like a sigh of relief and the thing I'm trying to help people see is I thing I'm trying to help people see is I thing I'm trying to help people see is I go no no no when things are working well go no no no when things are working well go no no no when things are working well it it actually takes as much or more it it actually takes as much or more it it actually takes as much or more intentionality to really lead Well when intentionality to really lead Well when intentionality to really lead Well when things are falling apart it's really things are falling apart it's really things are falling apart it's really really clear you know you've gotta you really clear you know you've gotta you really clear you know you've gotta you got to communicate quickly you got to got to communicate quickly you got to got to communicate quickly you got to decide quickly you got to conserve cast decide quickly you got to conserve cast decide quickly you got to conserve cast you got to make hard decisions and and you got to make hard decisions and and you got to make hard decisions and and everything's really clear and you're on everything's really clear and you're on everything's really clear and you're on point when things are going pretty good point when things are going pretty good point when things are going pretty good it's easy to take your hands off them it's easy to take your hands off them it's easy to take your hands off them and if you take your hands off for too and if you take your hands off for too and if you take your hands off for too long things are not going to be good and long things are not going to be good and long things are not going to be good and so you have to work harder to find out so you have to work harder to find out so you have to work harder to find out why are things working so to quote Andy why are things working so to quote Andy why are things working so to quote Andy Stanley if you don't know why they're Stanley if you don't know why they're Stanley if you don't know why they're working when they are you won't know how working when they are you won't know how working when they are you won't know how to fix them when they're not so you have to fix them when they're not so you have to fix them when they're not so you have to know why are they working you have to to know why are they working you have to to know why are they working you have to see problems early you have to solve see problems early you have to solve see problems early you have to solve them quickly you have to take um them quickly you have to take um them quickly you have to take um whenever things are going really really whenever things are going really really whenever things are going really really well it's easy for average to hide got well it's easy for average to hide got well it's easy for average to hide got an average employee and they're hiding an average employee and they're hiding an average employee and they're hiding out there they're not coming ear they're out there they're not coming ear they're out there they're not coming ear they're not staying late they're not really not staying late they're not really not staying late they're not really engaged and as soon as you have a higher engaged and as soon as you have a higher engaged and as soon as you have a higher percentage of team members not engaged percentage of team members not engaged percentage of team members not engaged eventually you're you're going to lose eventually you're you're going to lose eventually you're you're going to lose spiritual impact so you have to you have spiritual impact so you have to you have spiritual impact so you have to you have to work really hard to find out more to work really hard to find out more to work really hard to find out more information be really really dialed in information be really really dialed in information be really really dialed in and that's where I am right now working and that's where I am right now working and that's where I am right now working really hard in fact I I sent you notes really hard in fact I I sent you notes really hard in fact I I sent you notes I'm doing to the staff about you know

I'm doing to the staff about you know I'm doing to the staff about you know how how do you sustain spiritual success how how do you sustain spiritual success how how do you sustain spiritual success because uh sports teams rarely win uh because uh sports teams rarely win uh because uh sports teams rarely win uh back-to-back championships right almost back-to-back championships right almost back-to-back championships right almost never uh in uh only eight teams in the never uh in uh only eight teams in the never uh in uh only eight teams in the NFL back to back and then nobody as of NFL back to back and then nobody as of NFL back to back and then nobody as of this moment have won three by the time this moment have won three by the time this moment have won three by the time this comes out we might we'll know did this comes out we might we'll know did this comes out we might we'll know did Kansas City did or not yeah don't know Kansas City did or not yeah don't know Kansas City did or not yeah don't know yet but we'll we'll yet but we'll we'll yet but we'll we'll see so yeah and you know in your notes see so yeah and you know in your notes see so yeah and you know in your notes and thank you for sending them along and thank you for sending them along and thank you for sending them along ahead of time but you talking to your ahead of time but you talking to your ahead of time but you talking to your staff you're challenging them against staff you're challenging them against staff you're challenging them against complacency because I think you're right complacency because I think you're right complacency because I think you're right we've all been through a moment culture we've all been through a moment culture we've all been through a moment culture can be exhausting it's not the world can be exhausting it's not the world can be exhausting it's not the world we're used to leading in so it gets very we're used to leading in so it gets very we're used to leading in so it gets very easy just to say oh finally we're easy just to say oh finally we're easy just to say oh finally we're growing again exactly what you said we growing again exactly what you said we growing again exactly what you said we can just sit back relax kind of enjoy can just sit back relax kind of enjoy can just sit back relax kind of enjoy the flight um two prongs to this the flight um two prongs to this the flight um two prongs to this question let's start with this how do question let's start with this how do question let's start with this how do you challenge you challenge you challenge yourself against yourself against yourself against complacency and then how do you complacency and then how do you complacency and then how do you encourage a team not to get encourage a team not to get encourage a team not to get complacent well whenever leaders become complacent well whenever leaders become complacent well whenever leaders become uh comfortable uh they're vulnerable uh comfortable uh they're vulnerable uh comfortable uh they're vulnerable right and if if things are if things are right and if if things are if things are right and if if things are if things are good we we become comfortable uh for good we we become comfortable uh for good we we become comfortable uh for myself I'd say a few things uh one of myself I'd say a few things uh one of myself I'd say a few things uh one of the things and this is this would not be the things and this is this would not be the things and this is this would not be true for everybody but for me what I true for everybody but for me what I true for everybody but for me what I want to do is I always want to have want to do is I always want to have want to do is I always want to have about 30% more to do than what I think I about 30% more to do than what I think I about 30% more to do than what I think I can do and and so what that does is if can do and and so what that does is if can do and and so what that does is if I've got a if I've always got a little

I've got a if I've always got a little I've got a if I've always got a little bit more than what I think I can do is bit more than what I think I can do is bit more than what I think I can do is it keeps me very very very focused if it keeps me very very very focused if it keeps me very very very focused if I've got if I've got less than I think I I've got if I've got less than I think I I've got if I've got less than I think I can do then I I relax become complacent can do then I I relax become complacent can do then I I relax become complacent I start goofing off I've got more than I I start goofing off I've got more than I I start goofing off I've got more than I think I can do it makes me make think I can do it makes me make think I can do it makes me make decisions faster it helps me to delegate decisions faster it helps me to delegate decisions faster it helps me to delegate uh more effectively it helps me to say uh more effectively it helps me to say uh more effectively it helps me to say no when I should say no and then I have no when I should say no and then I have no when I should say no and then I have to put what I call artificial deadlines to put what I call artificial deadlines to put what I call artificial deadlines on things to say you know I just I have on things to say you know I just I have on things to say you know I just I have to get this done by this time and to get this done by this time and to get this done by this time and artificial deadlines it increases my artificial deadlines it increases my artificial deadlines it increases my efficiency and it um increases my efficiency and it um increases my efficiency and it um increases my creativity and so I I'm a pressure creativity and so I I'm a pressure creativity and so I I'm a pressure produced um I'm prompted by by pressure produced um I'm prompted by by pressure produced um I'm prompted by by pressure and so I need to create some I need to and so I need to create some I need to and so I need to create some I need to be in an environment that helps add be in an environment that helps add be in an environment that helps add pressure not everybody's going to be pressure not everybody's going to be pressure not everybody's going to be wired that way and so my way is not the wired that way and so my way is not the wired that way and so my way is not the right way not the only way but for me it right way not the only way but for me it right way not the only way but for me it is that way so I keep my my plate a is that way so I keep my my plate a is that way so I keep my my plate a little more full than it should be and little more full than it should be and little more full than it should be and that keeps me motivated I do not have that keeps me motivated I do not have that keeps me motivated I do not have downtimes it's like it's a it's a downtimes it's like it's a it's a downtimes it's like it's a it's a holiday everybody's off because it's holiday everybody's off because it's holiday everybody's off because it's pres the buildings closed whatever it's pres the buildings closed whatever it's pres the buildings closed whatever it's not I'm not off I'm not off I'm not you not I'm not off I'm not off I'm not you not I'm not off I'm not off I'm not you know and and nights are generally a time know and and nights are generally a time know and and nights are generally a time to work the other thing for me is all my to work the other thing for me is all my to work the other thing for me is all my kids are grown and I'm in a different kids are grown and I'm in a different kids are grown and I'm in a different season but it's just it's um the the the season but it's just it's um the the the season but it's just it's um the the the mission is so important I always want to mission is so important I always want to mission is so important I always want to have a little bit more to do so I like have a little bit more to do so I like have a little bit more to do so I like to see people that are walking fast to see people that are walking fast to see people that are walking fast there's a sense of urgency and what I'm

there's a sense of urgency and what I'm there's a sense of urgency and what I'm looking for is is not urgency whenever looking for is is not urgency whenever looking for is is not urgency whenever it's needed I'm looking for what I call it's needed I'm looking for what I call it's needed I'm looking for what I call preemptive urgency is like you know preemptive urgency is like you know preemptive urgency is like you know we're praying before the battle right we're praying before the battle right we're praying before the battle right we're we're working hard before we have we're we're working hard before we have we're we're working hard before we have to work hard we're making difficult to work hard we're making difficult to work hard we're making difficult decisions before we really need them so decisions before we really need them so decisions before we really need them so I want to lead with preemptive urgency I want to lead with preemptive urgency I want to lead with preemptive urgency urgency and I just kind of always live urgency and I just kind of always live urgency and I just kind of always live there it's not I don't have to work it there it's not I don't have to work it there it's not I don't have to work it up for me um I think I'm wired that way up for me um I think I'm wired that way up for me um I think I'm wired that way you ask how do I do it for the team and you ask how do I do it for the team and you ask how do I do it for the team and and the interesting response is you do and the interesting response is you do and the interesting response is you do it differently for different people it differently for different people it differently for different people there there are some leaders that you there there are some leaders that you there there are some leaders that you don't ever need to really um motivate don't ever need to really um motivate don't ever need to really um motivate because they woke up motivated that day because they woke up motivated that day because they woke up motivated that day there are other leaders that if you're there are other leaders that if you're there are other leaders that if you're not challenging them they're going to not challenging them they're going to not challenging them they're going to become quickly complacent and so it's become quickly complacent and so it's become quickly complacent and so it's like your children you parent children like your children you parent children like your children you parent children differently you have to say to to to get differently you have to say to to to get differently you have to say to to to get an outcome with a whole group of Staff an outcome with a whole group of Staff an outcome with a whole group of Staff or volunteers you you might have to say or volunteers you you might have to say or volunteers you you might have to say something one way one time another way something one way one time another way something one way one time another way another time and and Coach them another time and and Coach them another time and and Coach them individually not just corporately now individually not just corporately now individually not just corporately now corporately what we have to do always corporately what we have to do always corporately what we have to do always always always is we we have to share always always is we we have to share always always is we we have to share Vision non-stop non-stop non-stop we Vision non-stop non-stop non-stop we Vision non-stop non-stop non-stop we have to drive uh the values non-stop why have to drive uh the values non-stop why have to drive uh the values non-stop why because Vision uh drifts and and values because Vision uh drifts and and values because Vision uh drifts and and values leak and and over time um people do leak and and over time um people do leak and and over time um people do people do not stumble toward people do not stumble toward people do not stumble toward productivity they stumble toward um productivity they stumble toward um productivity they stumble toward um what's easy so is it is this is this what's easy so is it is this is this what's easy so is it is this is this hard work of here's what we stand for hard work of here's what we stand for hard work of here's what we stand for here's where we're going here's what here's where we're going here's what here's where we're going here's what we're doing it's the basics over and we're doing it's the basics over and we're doing it's the basics over and over and over again people ask like hey

over and over again people ask like hey over and over again people ask like hey what are you working on now what's new what are you working on now what's new what are you working on now what's new what's new what's different like ah not what's new what's different like ah not what's new what's different like ah not a thing has been different in my life a thing has been different in my life a thing has been different in my life for a long period of time it's showing for a long period of time it's showing for a long period of time it's showing up doing the same things over and over up doing the same things over and over up doing the same things over and over and over again not getting bored with it and over again not getting bored with it and over again not getting bored with it not trying to complicate it just trying not trying to complicate it just trying not trying to complicate it just trying to keep the keep the vision white hot to keep the keep the vision white hot to keep the keep the vision white hot and um um the values putting before and um um the values putting before and um um the values putting before people and and work really hard at it people and and work really hard at it people and and work really hard at it and so I'm doing a whole talk we have and so I'm doing a whole talk we have and so I'm doing a whole talk we have the whole staff that comes in twice a the whole staff that comes in twice a the whole staff that comes in twice a year and I'm doing a whole talk on how year and I'm doing a whole talk on how year and I'm doing a whole talk on how how do you do that how do you keep the how do you do that how do you keep the how do you do that how do you keep the spiritual passion spiritual passion spiritual passion hot so I want to I want to get to that hot so I want to I want to get to that hot so I want to I want to get to that but I want to ask you too you're working but I want to ask you too you're working but I want to ask you too you're working I mean you're sometimes you're up at I mean you're sometimes you're up at I mean you're sometimes you're up at what 4:30 qu to 5 what 4:30 qu to 5 what 4:30 qu to 5 uh you're in the office early usually uh you're in the office early usually uh you're in the office early usually before the sun rises you're working at before the sun rises you're working at before the sun rises you're working at night uh and and I agree you are you are night uh and and I agree you are you are night uh and and I agree you are you are uh I don't want to say wound tight uh I don't want to say wound tight uh I don't want to say wound tight that's the wrong word but you are a that's the wrong word but you are a that's the wrong word but you are a coiled spring like you are always ready coiled spring like you are always ready coiled spring like you are always ready to go and yet you got to a point of to go and yet you got to a point of to go and yet you got to a point of burnout almost six years ago like just burnout almost six years ago like just burnout almost six years ago like just at the edge of it how do you at the edge of it how do you at the edge of it how do you maintain uh like even your Sabbath we've maintain uh like even your Sabbath we've maintain uh like even your Sabbath we've talked about that before right where talked about that before right where talked about that before right where you're like okay I I get to work for an you're like okay I I get to work for an you're like okay I I get to work for an hour my uh my vacation when the rest of hour my uh my vacation when the rest of hour my uh my vacation when the rest of family is at the beach how do you family is at the beach how do you family is at the beach how do you modulate that to make sure you don't go modulate that to make sure you don't go modulate that to make sure you don't go over the edge and you're not running over the edge and you're not running over the edge and you're not running tired again well and again every leader tired again well and again every leader tired again well and again every leader is created by God with different is created by God with different is created by God with different strengths and weaknesses so this is this strengths and weaknesses so this is this strengths and weaknesses so this is this is just for me but um the thing I worked is just for me but um the thing I worked is just for me but um the thing I worked on years ago was is not that I'm G to

on years ago was is not that I'm G to on years ago was is not that I'm G to not work as hard I'm just going to work not work as hard I'm just going to work not work as hard I'm just going to work in a healthier way and so it's it's in a healthier way and so it's it's in a healthier way and so it's it's little things like now I've I've learned little things like now I've I've learned little things like now I've I've learned how to be more productive in a short how to be more productive in a short how to be more productive in a short period of time by blocking out time like period of time by blocking out time like period of time by blocking out time like nobody gets in this time and so if you nobody gets in this time and so if you nobody gets in this time and so if you give me four hours of uninterrupted time give me four hours of uninterrupted time give me four hours of uninterrupted time I could do more than I would do on an I could do more than I would do on an I could do more than I would do on an eight hour day if I've got two 15minute eight hour day if I've got two 15minute eight hour day if I've got two 15minute meetings and so it's little things like meetings and so it's little things like meetings and so it's little things like that so understanding when you're and that so understanding when you're and that so understanding when you're and you talk about this a lot Carrie in one you talk about this a lot Carrie in one you talk about this a lot Carrie in one of your books you know you talked about of your books you know you talked about of your books you know you talked about um I think when when is it green for you um I think when when is it green for you um I think when when is it green for you when when's the time green for me me and when when's the time green for me me and when when's the time green for me me and you are wired the same way for me it's you are wired the same way for me it's you are wired the same way for me it's to 11 a.m. yeah when are you most to 11 a.m. yeah when are you most to 11 a.m. yeah when are you most productive and what what rhythms make productive and what what rhythms make productive and what what rhythms make you most productive when do you bring you most productive when do you bring you most productive when do you bring people in when do you eat how so for me people in when do you eat how so for me people in when do you eat how so for me it's like a science of I want to know it's like a science of I want to know it's like a science of I want to know everything like what am I drinking what everything like what am I drinking what everything like what am I drinking what am I eating what snacks do I have nearby am I eating what snacks do I have nearby am I eating what snacks do I have nearby what kind of um noise do I hear in the what kind of um noise do I hear in the what kind of um noise do I hear in the background where's my phone what kind of background where's my phone what kind of background where's my phone what kind of resources do I have together who's resources do I have together who's resources do I have together who's allowed in the room how long do I have allowed in the room how long do I have allowed in the room how long do I have before something comes in and so it's before something comes in and so it's before something comes in and so it's it's just like a science of how do I it's just like a science of how do I it's just like a science of how do I create that environment that produces create that environment that produces create that environment that produces the maximum um efficiency and the maximum um efficiency and the maximum um efficiency and Effectiveness and it's uh you asking how Effectiveness and it's uh you asking how Effectiveness and it's uh you asking how do I modulate that um for me and this is do I modulate that um for me and this is do I modulate that um for me and this is like I I talked to my counselor now now like I I talked to my counselor now now like I I talked to my counselor now now we look back and say I can't believe it we look back and say I can't believe it we look back and say I can't believe it was so simple he you know he literally was so simple he you know he literally was so simple he you know he literally help me to just get a couple things that help me to just get a couple things that help me to just get a couple things that disconnect my mind and I've talked about disconnect my mind and I've talked about disconnect my mind and I've talked about it a million times but one one of them it a million times but one one of them it a million times but one one of them is doing Jiu-Jitsu another one is flying

is doing Jiu-Jitsu another one is flying is doing Jiu-Jitsu another one is flying airplanes and it just disconnects my airplanes and it just disconnects my airplanes and it just disconnects my mind if if I'm not doing those things mind if if I'm not doing those things mind if if I'm not doing those things there are very few things there's almost there are very few things there's almost there are very few things there's almost almost nothing else in life maybe one or almost nothing else in life maybe one or almost nothing else in life maybe one or two things I won't talk about here but two things I won't talk about here but two things I won't talk about here but that will get my mind off of work in that will get my mind off of work in that will get my mind off of work in church and and all that but it it just church and and all that but it it just church and and all that but it it just gives me a it gives me a mental break gives me a it gives me a mental break gives me a it gives me a mental break and then I find I can still continue to and then I find I can still continue to and then I find I can still continue to work really hard it's also like with Amy work really hard it's also like with Amy work really hard it's also like with Amy is we've worked on what are the rhythms is we've worked on what are the rhythms is we've worked on what are the rhythms that work really well for us and so that work really well for us and so that work really well for us and so she's now a part of helping me stay she's now a part of helping me stay she's now a part of helping me stay healthy I'm a part of helping her stay healthy I'm a part of helping her stay healthy I'm a part of helping her stay healthy and it's and now we're able to healthy and it's and now we're able to healthy and it's and now we're able to work just as hard maybe even a little work just as hard maybe even a little work just as hard maybe even a little bit harder but do it from a place of bit harder but do it from a place of bit harder but do it from a place of health and for the right reasons and in health and for the right reasons and in health and for the right reasons and in the right season with kids this age it's the right season with kids this age it's the right season with kids this age it's just uh it's dialed in and it's working just uh it's dialed in and it's working just uh it's dialed in and it's working but we didn't get here without help we but we didn't get here without help we but we didn't get here without help we had to have a community of people around had to have a community of people around had to have a community of people around us help us see how we're wired and and us help us see how we're wired and and us help us see how we're wired and and how to how to do it in a way that lasts how to how to do it in a way that lasts how to how to do it in a way that lasts bit of a left turn you've said this bit of a left turn you've said this bit of a left turn you've said this numerous times on your podcast and we numerous times on your podcast and we numerous times on your podcast and we were kind of joking about it before we were kind of joking about it before we were kind of joking about it before we started recording you said you have started recording you said you have started recording you said you have extreme views extreme views extreme views on certain topics and I would I would on certain topics and I would I would on certain topics and I would I would just be curious what are some extreme just be curious what are some extreme just be curious what are some extreme views that you have that a lot of other views that you have that a lot of other views that you have that a lot of other people wouldn't have things that you're people wouldn't have things that you're people wouldn't have things that you're like totally believe this not sure like totally believe this not sure like totally believe this not sure everybody would ones that you're everybody would ones that you're everybody would ones that you're comfortable comfortable comfortable sharing I wouldn't even know like what C sharing I wouldn't even know like what C sharing I wouldn't even know like what C what category are you talking about well what category are you talking about well what category are you talking about well pick a category I don't know we haven't

pick a category I don't know we haven't pick a category I don't know we haven't had this conversation had this conversation had this conversation so uh I'm just curious what those so uh I'm just curious what those so uh I'm just curious what those extreme opinions extreme views might be extreme opinions extreme views might be extreme opinions extreme views might be you could talk about socially we could you could talk about socially we could you could talk about socially we could talk about with work we could talk about talk about with work we could talk about talk about with work we could talk about uh self- leadership team leadership uh self- leadership team leadership uh self- leadership team leadership whatever whatever you think Well here whatever whatever you think Well here whatever whatever you think Well here here's what I found is that some here's what I found is that some here's what I found is that some sometimes my extremes have been wrong sometimes my extremes have been wrong sometimes my extremes have been wrong and and so like I I I was uh pretty and and so like I I I was uh pretty and and so like I I I was uh pretty critical against people that I would critical against people that I would critical against people that I would call lazy and then with the help of call lazy and then with the help of call lazy and then with the help of people around me I've recognized that people around me I've recognized that people around me I've recognized that some people aren't lazy they just value some people aren't lazy they just value some people aren't lazy they just value something different something different something different and so if I value productivity and and so if I value productivity and and so if I value productivity and movement and production they might movement and production they might movement and production they might genuinely genuinely genuinely value um sleeping in drinking coffee for value um sleeping in drinking coffee for value um sleeping in drinking coffee for a long period of time sitting next a long period of time sitting next a long period of time sitting next looking out the window you know looking looking out the window you know looking looking out the window you know looking at nature and that's that's not I I at nature and that's that's not I I at nature and that's that's not I I would have seen that as like you're would have seen that as like you're would have seen that as like you're being lazy they would say no I'm being lazy they would say no I'm being lazy they would say no I'm actually enjoying something different so actually enjoying something different so actually enjoying something different so it's it's it's it's it's it's recognizing my extremes aren't always recognizing my extremes aren't always recognizing my extremes aren't always right right right at the same time my extremes make me at the same time my extremes make me at the same time my extremes make me unique and so if I try to curb my unique and so if I try to curb my unique and so if I try to curb my Extremes in many ways I might be Extremes in many ways I might be Extremes in many ways I might be discounting how God made me and so discounting how God made me and so discounting how God made me and so rather than trying to help everybody rather than trying to help everybody rather than trying to help everybody else embrace my extremes tolerate my else embrace my extremes tolerate my else embrace my extremes tolerate my extremes celebrate my extremes I I extremes celebrate my extremes I I extremes celebrate my extremes I I really don't want to stop to even ask really don't want to stop to even ask really don't want to stop to even ask their opinion I just want to be free to

their opinion I just want to be free to their opinion I just want to be free to embrace the extremes be greatness is embrace the extremes be greatness is embrace the extremes be greatness is born in the extremes period you're not born in the extremes period you're not born in the extremes period you're not going to do something great if you're going to do something great if you're going to do something great if you're not extreme you have to have some not extreme you have to have some not extreme you have to have some extremes but one of the mistakes we make extremes but one of the mistakes we make extremes but one of the mistakes we make as Leaders is we tend to think other as Leaders is we tend to think other as Leaders is we tend to think other people need to appreciate our extrems people need to appreciate our extrems people need to appreciate our extrems extremes celebrate them and they and our extremes celebrate them and they and our extremes celebrate them and they and our extremes may be wrong for most people uh extremes may be wrong for most people uh extremes may be wrong for most people uh and so for me it's recogniz and I'll and so for me it's recogniz and I'll and so for me it's recogniz and I'll tell my team all the time I do not tell my team all the time I do not tell my team all the time I do not expect you to keep up I don't want you expect you to keep up I don't want you expect you to keep up I don't want you to work with me I want you to go home to work with me I want you to go home to work with me I want you to go home have a family I've got a whole system have a family I've got a whole system have a family I've got a whole system designed around me to help me be designed around me to help me be designed around me to help me be productive I got help in ridiculous productive I got help in ridiculous productive I got help in ridiculous places that that everyone else doesn't places that that everyone else doesn't places that that everyone else doesn't have and so I have a a life system built have and so I have a a life system built have and so I have a a life system built to serve God in this way in these to serve God in this way in these to serve God in this way in these extremes and that's intentional I give extremes and that's intentional I give extremes and that's intentional I give you permission to have different you permission to have different you permission to have different extremes to have different standards I'm extremes to have different standards I'm extremes to have different standards I'm not holding you to to mine but at the not holding you to to mine but at the not holding you to to mine but at the same time I want you to um let me run same time I want you to um let me run same time I want you to um let me run let me be who God created me to be and I let me be who God created me to be and I let me be who God created me to be and I want to help you do the same thing so uh want to help you do the same thing so uh want to help you do the same thing so uh it's it's growing Carrie to recognize it's it's growing Carrie to recognize it's it's growing Carrie to recognize that even when I I have extreme views that even when I I have extreme views that even when I I have extreme views about something it doesn't necessarily about something it doesn't necessarily about something it doesn't necessarily mean they're right they might just be mean they're right they might just be mean they're right they might just be right for me and by that I'm not saying right for me and by that I'm not saying right for me and by that I'm not saying there's your truth my truth I'm saying there's your truth my truth I'm saying there's your truth my truth I'm saying there's um the way I'm wired and the way there's um the way I'm wired and the way there's um the way I'm wired and the way other people are wired and one's not other people are wired and one's not other people are wired and one's not better but but what yours might be better but but what yours might be better but but what yours might be better for you and mine might be better better for you and mine might be better better for you and mine might be better for what I'm created to do what extremes for what I'm created to do what extremes for what I'm created to do what extremes are currently really working for you are currently really working for you are currently really working for you Craig that you're like wow these are

Craig that you're like wow these are Craig that you're like wow these are optimized and they're making me feel optimized and they're making me feel optimized and they're making me feel alive when I wake up in the morning so alive when I wake up in the morning so alive when I wake up in the morning so so to me some things are symbolic and um so to me some things are symbolic and um so to me some things are symbolic and um for years I had I had one of the for years I had I had one of the for years I had I had one of the strictest diets that you might see you strictest diets that you might see you strictest diets that you might see you know there would be people that would be know there would be people that would be know there would be people that would be you know bodybuilders into Health that you know bodybuilders into Health that you know bodybuilders into Health that would be at a level that I'm not at and would be at a level that I'm not at and would be at a level that I'm not at and but but as far as like a guy on the but but as far as like a guy on the but but as far as like a guy on the street my diet was pretty dialed in street my diet was pretty dialed in street my diet was pretty dialed in somewhere along the way I just thought somewhere along the way I just thought somewhere along the way I just thought hey Life's a little too short to be hey Life's a little too short to be hey Life's a little too short to be strict and so I started cheating in very strict and so I started cheating in very strict and so I started cheating in very little ways and by that it started out little ways and by that it started out little ways and by that it started out with like and now that people laugh but with like and now that people laugh but with like and now that people laugh but a bite of a cake you know one bite and I a bite of a cake you know one bite and I a bite of a cake you know one bite and I could do one bite and be fine and then could do one bite and be fine and then could do one bite and be fine and then is two bites and then it was a half is two bites and then it was a half is two bites and then it was a half piece of cake then after a while you piece of cake then after a while you piece of cake then after a while you know every now and then it'd be one know every now and then it'd be one know every now and then it'd be one piece of cake then then it would be a piece of cake then then it would be a piece of cake then then it would be a piece of bread at um a restaurant then' piece of bread at um a restaurant then' piece of bread at um a restaurant then' be two pieces of bread what happened is be two pieces of bread what happened is be two pieces of bread what happened is over about a period of three years I over about a period of three years I over about a period of three years I loosened up maybe you know it's still loosened up maybe you know it's still loosened up maybe you know it's still considered pretty tight compared to most considered pretty tight compared to most considered pretty tight compared to most but I loosened up quite a bit and I but I loosened up quite a bit and I but I loosened up quite a bit and I looked at it one day and I thought I looked at it one day and I thought I looked at it one day and I thought I just don't like this for me the benefit just don't like this for me the benefit just don't like this for me the benefit of the food I of the food I of the food I enjoy is way less than the feeling I get enjoy is way less than the feeling I get enjoy is way less than the feeling I get from living up to an extreme and so I from living up to an extreme and so I from living up to an extreme and so I just dialed it back in and I haven't had just dialed it back in and I haven't had just dialed it back in and I haven't had a bite of anything that doesn't kind of a bite of anything that doesn't kind of a bite of anything that doesn't kind of fall within my parameters in maybe two fall within my parameters in maybe two fall within my parameters in maybe two months and I probably won't do it months and I probably won't do it months and I probably won't do it forever but I'm gonna do it for a long

forever but I'm gonna do it for a long forever but I'm gonna do it for a long time because I'm not looking for not time because I'm not looking for not time because I'm not looking for not looking for a moment to cheat because looking for a moment to cheat because looking for a moment to cheat because the benefit I get from the M&M's or the benefit I get from the M&M's or the benefit I get from the M&M's or whatever is not for me as good as the whatever is not for me as good as the whatever is not for me as good as the benefit I get from saying I'm dialed in benefit I get from saying I'm dialed in benefit I get from saying I'm dialed in in this area I like that if I can win in in this area I like that if I can win in in this area I like that if I can win in that area then it helps me to know I can that area then it helps me to know I can that area then it helps me to know I can win into other areas and so it's it's win into other areas and so it's it's win into other areas and so it's it's not it's not a legalistic thing it's not it's not a legalistic thing it's not it's not a legalistic thing it's creating a mindset in one area of my creating a mindset in one area of my creating a mindset in one area of my life that then goes into every other life that then goes into every other life that then goes into every other area of my life so now my workouts are a area of my life so now my workouts are a area of my life so now my workouts are a little more intense my prayer time's a little more intense my prayer time's a little more intense my prayer time's a little more intense I'm not missing my little more intense I'm not missing my little more intense I'm not missing my journaling it's a little bit like the journaling it's a little bit like the journaling it's a little bit like the Keystone habits it's just it's something Keystone habits it's just it's something Keystone habits it's just it's something it is an extreme for me that leads to it is an extreme for me that leads to it is an extreme for me that leads to other extremes that I consider to be other extremes that I consider to be other extremes that I consider to be extremely effective for me and I extremely effective for me and I extremely effective for me and I wouldn't hold anybody else to this and wouldn't hold anybody else to this and wouldn't hold anybody else to this and wouldn't tell anybody else to do that wouldn't tell anybody else to do that wouldn't tell anybody else to do that but there' be another thing like you but there' be another thing like you but there' be another thing like you don't miss your Bible study time or you don't miss your Bible study time or you don't miss your Bible study time or you don't or you stop you get off Tik Tok don't or you stop you get off Tik Tok don't or you stop you get off Tik Tok because it's taking too much time or because it's taking too much time or because it's taking too much time or whatever it is you know you look for whatever it is you know you look for whatever it is you know you look for those you look for those things in your those you look for those things in your those you look for those things in your area that that help you area that that help you area that that help you feel um effective dialed in um uh close feel um effective dialed in um uh close feel um effective dialed in um uh close to God you know maximizing your to God you know maximizing your to God you know maximizing your potential whatever it is can you talk a potential whatever it is can you talk a potential whatever it is can you talk a little bit more because you said you little bit more because you said you little bit more because you said you know you like to have 30% more on your know you like to have 30% more on your know you like to have 30% more on your plate than is reasonable I'm very plate than is reasonable I'm very plate than is reasonable I'm very similar I just having this conversation similar I just having this conversation similar I just having this conversation with Katie my EA and she's like you just with Katie my EA and she's like you just with Katie my EA and she's like you just take on so much and I'm like yeah but take on so much and I'm like yeah but take on so much and I'm like yeah but otherwise I get bored and I don't expect

otherwise I get bored and I don't expect otherwise I get bored and I don't expect you like I want you to have evenings you like I want you to have evenings you like I want you to have evenings with your girls and I want you to have with your girls and I want you to have with your girls and I want you to have the weekend off and all that stuff how the weekend off and all that stuff how the weekend off and all that stuff how do you how do you approach I was going do you how do you approach I was going do you how do you approach I was going to say balance that's not the right word to say balance that's not the right word to say balance that's not the right word how how do you approach the tension that how how do you approach the tension that how how do you approach the tension that these are the rules for me but I'm not these are the rules for me but I'm not these are the rules for me but I'm not expecting that of you so that people who expecting that of you so that people who expecting that of you so that people who run at different pace people with run at different pace people with run at different pace people with different priorities don't get subsumed different priorities don't get subsumed different priorities don't get subsumed under your uh capacity yeah so that's a under your uh capacity yeah so that's a under your uh capacity yeah so that's a great question um really really great question um really really great question um really really practically for example um my assist practically for example um my assist practically for example um my assist assant that I work directly with she assant that I work directly with she assant that I work directly with she would work at my Pace unless I almost would work at my Pace unless I almost would work at my Pace unless I almost forbid it so so what I'll do with her is forbid it so so what I'll do with her is forbid it so so what I'll do with her is you know I'll I'll work in the evenings you know I'll I'll work in the evenings you know I'll I'll work in the evenings and um so if I text her she knows that and um so if I text her she knows that and um so if I text her she knows that this is pretty urgent and can you reply this is pretty urgent and can you reply this is pretty urgent and can you reply in an evening I probably wouldn't text in an evening I probably wouldn't text in an evening I probably wouldn't text her in an evening once a month maybe her in an evening once a month maybe her in an evening once a month maybe twice a month because I've really worked twice a month because I've really worked twice a month because I've really worked in the past it might have been three in the past it might have been three in the past it might have been three times in a night but now what I'll do is times in a night but now what I'll do is times in a night but now what I'll do is I'll say when I email you I do not want I'll say when I email you I do not want I'll say when I email you I do not want a response please don't respond and by a response please don't respond and by a response please don't respond and by Nature she's a hard worker and she wants Nature she's a hard worker and she wants Nature she's a hard worker and she wants to please so she'll respond so next day to please so she'll respond so next day to please so she'll respond so next day I'll say like hey don't ever do that I'll say like hey don't ever do that I'll say like hey don't ever do that again when I email you I don't want you again when I email you I don't want you again when I email you I don't want you to respond so what I'm doing is just to respond so what I'm doing is just to respond so what I'm doing is just saying I'm getting this off my mind in saying I'm getting this off my mind in saying I'm getting this off my mind in your inbox it'll be there tomorrow do your inbox it'll be there tomorrow do your inbox it'll be there tomorrow do not respond so it's not just saying you not respond so it's not just saying you not respond so it's not just saying you have permission not to work when I send have permission not to work when I send have permission not to work when I send you something but it's telling you don't you something but it's telling you don't you something but it's telling you don't do it do not do it and so like she went

do it do not do it and so like she went do it do not do it and so like she went on she went a week away somewhere and in on she went a week away somewhere and in on she went a week away somewhere and in the past I would have said you know I the past I would have said you know I the past I would have said you know I would have sent lots of emails or lots would have sent lots of emails or lots would have sent lots of emails or lots of text in that time I just made a pile of text in that time I just made a pile of text in that time I just made a pile in my office for and just kept it there in my office for and just kept it there in my office for and just kept it there so it was me saying I'm actually gonna so it was me saying I'm actually gonna so it was me saying I'm actually gonna change my rhythms to help you be change my rhythms to help you be change my rhythms to help you be successful because I know where You're successful because I know where You're successful because I know where You're vulnerable and so she's the same way for vulnerable and so she's the same way for vulnerable and so she's the same way for me uh if she knows I'm going to take me uh if she knows I'm going to take me uh if she knows I'm going to take some time off you know she's not going some time off you know she's not going some time off you know she's not going to send me something when I'm flying to send me something when I'm flying to send me something when I'm flying because it's going to trigger me to you because it's going to trigger me to you because it's going to trigger me to you know bring my mind back into it so is know bring my mind back into it so is know bring my mind back into it so is it's learning to to Value the people it's learning to to Value the people it's learning to to Value the people around you learning how they're going to around you learning how they're going to around you learning how they're going to be most successful and then helping them be most successful and then helping them be most successful and then helping them be successful don't if we're not careful be successful don't if we're not careful be successful don't if we're not careful we'll drag them into our dysfunctions or we'll drag them into our dysfunctions or we'll drag them into our dysfunctions or and it's not fair to and it's not fair to and it's not fair to them them them so here's something that I just saw in so here's something that I just saw in so here's something that I just saw in my notes that I don't want to leave uh my notes that I don't want to leave uh my notes that I don't want to leave uh because it's too good leaders who don't because it's too good leaders who don't because it's too good leaders who don't ask hard questions now will have harder ask hard questions now will have harder ask hard questions now will have harder questions have to ask harder questions questions have to ask harder questions questions have to ask harder questions later MH I think that was from your later MH I think that was from your later MH I think that was from your staff notes that you sent me can you staff notes that you sent me can you staff notes that you sent me can you extrapolate on that yeah so um um where what's what's not working well as where what's what's not working well as where what's what's not working well as today as it used to and we're still today as it used to and we're still today as it used to and we're still doing it why is this working why is this doing it why is this working why is this doing it why is this working why is this not working why is this campus blowing not working why is this campus blowing not working why is this campus blowing up this one's not why is this student up this one's not why is this student up this one's not why is this student Ministry growing that one's not we we Ministry growing that one's not we we Ministry growing that one's not we we have to ask questions non-stop non-stop have to ask questions non-stop non-stop have to ask questions non-stop non-stop non-stop non-stop nonstop and and um if non-stop non-stop nonstop and and um if non-stop non-stop nonstop and and um if we don't do it

we don't do it we don't do it then bigger problems are going to come then bigger problems are going to come then bigger problems are going to come up later why why is this team have a up later why why is this team have a up later why why is this team have a lower q12 why does this team um show up lower q12 why does this team um show up lower q12 why does this team um show up later and leave a little bit earlier all later and leave a little bit earlier all later and leave a little bit earlier all the time you just and especially when the time you just and especially when the time you just and especially when things are working we have to be um we things are working we have to be um we things are working we have to be um we have to be have to be have to be proactive in in determining why proactive in in determining why proactive in in determining why something's working why it's not we have something's working why it's not we have something's working why it's not we have to see early on when something is losing to see early on when something is losing to see early on when something is losing it losing focus losing passion it just it losing focus losing passion it just it losing focus losing passion it just it just takes a lot of hard work and it just takes a lot of hard work and it just takes a lot of hard work and when things are working we tend to when things are working we tend to when things are working we tend to answer questions not ask them and like answer questions not ask them and like answer questions not ask them and like for years it one of the things you told for years it one of the things you told for years it one of the things you told me you told me you might ask me hey what me you told me you might ask me hey what me you told me you might ask me hey what do what do we need to do in the broader do what do we need to do in the broader do what do we need to do in the broader Church to be effective like I don't have Church to be effective like I don't have Church to be effective like I don't have any idea whatsoever because I am not out any idea whatsoever because I am not out any idea whatsoever because I am not out there anymore I don't you know earlier there anymore I don't you know earlier there anymore I don't you know earlier on 10 years ago I was answering on 10 years ago I was answering on 10 years ago I was answering questions here's how you do multi-site questions here's how you do multi-site questions here's how you do multi-site here's how you do this one day I here's how you do this one day I here's how you do this one day I realized like I don't actually have any realized like I don't actually have any realized like I don't actually have any business answering the questions I need business answering the questions I need business answering the questions I need just need to ask them and so in meetings just need to ask them and so in meetings just need to ask them and so in meetings I want to ask questions ask questions I want to ask questions ask questions I want to ask questions ask questions ask questions and I want to answer them ask questions and I want to answer them ask questions and I want to answer them and we just we need to we need to and and we just we need to we need to and and we just we need to we need to and then cool story there's a guy one time then cool story there's a guy one time then cool story there's a guy one time Carrie I was getting my arm worked on by Carrie I was getting my arm worked on by Carrie I was getting my arm worked on by this really good um doctor and uh he this really good um doctor and uh he this really good um doctor and uh he asked me question after question after asked me question after question after asked me question after question after question about a really simple injury it question about a really simple injury it question about a really simple injury it went on for I don't know 15 minutes he went on for I don't know 15 minutes he went on for I don't know 15 minutes he was asking questions and he's a friend was asking questions and he's a friend was asking questions and he's a friend of mine got down the end I said hey of mine got down the end I said hey of mine got down the end I said hey manam when did you think that you had a manam when did you think that you had a manam when did you think that you had a diagnosis for my problem he goes well I

diagnosis for my problem he goes well I diagnosis for my problem he goes well I pretty much I thought I knew when you pretty much I thought I knew when you pretty much I thought I knew when you talk to me on the phone but I'm never talk to me on the phone but I'm never talk to me on the phone but I'm never going to let my assumptions take me to a going to let my assumptions take me to a going to let my assumptions take me to a bad place he he said he had a mentor who bad place he he said he had a mentor who bad place he he said he had a mentor who said ask 21 questions before you ever said ask 21 questions before you ever said ask 21 questions before you ever start to formulate any kind of opinion start to formulate any kind of opinion start to formulate any kind of opinion and so he's sitting there asking me 21 and so he's sitting there asking me 21 and so he's sitting there asking me 21 different questions circles around it to different questions circles around it to different questions circles around it to make sure his assumptions don't lead him make sure his assumptions don't lead him make sure his assumptions don't lead him to a bad place in the church world too to a bad place in the church world too to a bad place in the church world too many of us are making assumptions that many of us are making assumptions that many of us are making assumptions that we know why something's working why we know why something's working why we know why something's working why we're good why this is effective why we're good why this is effective why we're good why this is effective why it's not and we don't understand the it's not and we don't understand the it's not and we don't understand the power of God and we don't understand power of God and we don't understand power of God and we don't understand where our people are we have to be where our people are we have to be where our people are we have to be students uh not teachers and if we're students uh not teachers and if we're students uh not teachers and if we're students and asking questions students and asking questions students and asking questions consistently then we can continue to consistently then we can continue to consistently then we can continue to grow um personally and then we can make grow um personally and then we can make grow um personally and then we can make a bigger difference how many books have a bigger difference how many books have a bigger difference how many books have you written now uh this benefit of the you written now uh this benefit of the you written now uh this benefit of the doubt is coming out uh is it 20 that you doubt is coming out uh is it 20 that you doubt is coming out uh is it 20 that you 20 maybe I've got one more that's 20 maybe I've got one more that's 20 maybe I've got one more that's written that'll come out next year so 20 written that'll come out next year so 20 written that'll come out next year so 20 is 21 great that's is 21 great that's is 21 great that's amazing um you're very disciplined with amazing um you're very disciplined with amazing um you're very disciplined with your time I would love to go I want to your time I would love to go I want to your time I would love to go I want to touch on um your new book but I'd love touch on um your new book but I'd love touch on um your new book but I'd love to get into your writing process what to get into your writing process what to get into your writing process what does that look like you're so does that look like you're so does that look like you're so disciplined so focused with your time disciplined so focused with your time disciplined so focused with your time what allows you to basically put out a what allows you to basically put out a what allows you to basically put out a book a book a book a year well uh I'm I'm creating other year well uh I'm I'm creating other year well uh I'm I'm creating other content that can become a book so content that can become a book so content that can become a book so sermons can become books that that's a sermons can become books that that's a sermons can become books that that's a little bit almost almost unfair because

little bit almost almost unfair because little bit almost almost unfair because you know someone else who doesn't preach you know someone else who doesn't preach you know someone else who doesn't preach every week starts from scratch I don't I every week starts from scratch I don't I every week starts from scratch I don't I I start from scratch to create sermon I start from scratch to create sermon I start from scratch to create sermon series and a lot of times that'll give series and a lot of times that'll give series and a lot of times that'll give you an idea and they'll be there be you an idea and they'll be there be you an idea and they'll be there be content that's usable in in other ways content that's usable in in other ways content that's usable in in other ways so that's super helpful for me I think so that's super helpful for me I think so that's super helpful for me I think to answer the question on a different to answer the question on a different to answer the question on a different level is um how do you create content at level is um how do you create content at level is um how do you create content at all what what you have to do is you have all what what you have to do is you have all what what you have to do is you have to really understand how you're wired to really understand how you're wired to really understand how you're wired when you're most when you're most when you're most creative um what tools you need to be creative um what tools you need to be creative um what tools you need to be most creative what supplemental support most creative what supplemental support most creative what supplemental support do you need do you need to work with do you need do you need to work with do you need do you need to work with other people are you an extrovert do you other people are you an extrovert do you other people are you an extrovert do you need people when do they come in and need people when do they come in and need people when do they come in and critique and contribute to your work critique and contribute to your work critique and contribute to your work what kind of snacks do you need what what kind of snacks do you need what what kind of snacks do you need what time of the day when you what how kind time of the day when you what how kind time of the day when you what how kind of rhythms and so everybody has to find of rhythms and so everybody has to find of rhythms and so everybody has to find those things mine are super super dialed those things mine are super super dialed those things mine are super super dialed in and I really understand them now and in and I really understand them now and in and I really understand them now and I'm hyper protective of them and almost I'm hyper protective of them and almost I'm hyper protective of them and almost like superstitious like it has to be like superstitious like it has to be like superstitious like it has to be this way and and someone could critique this way and and someone could critique this way and and someone could critique it and I say you're probably right it and I say you're probably right it and I say you're probably right there's a lot lot of things that are there's a lot lot of things that are there's a lot lot of things that are silly but in my mind they matter and so silly but in my mind they matter and so silly but in my mind they matter and so if they matter to me they matter one of if they matter to me they matter one of if they matter to me they matter one of the things I'm curious about is you know the things I'm curious about is you know the things I'm curious about is you know you're preaching 40 times a year 35 40 you're preaching 40 times a year 35 40 you're preaching 40 times a year 35 40 times a year I think 36 last time 36 times a year I think 36 last time 36 times a year I think 36 last time 36 okay 36 times a year you're writing a okay 36 times a year you're writing a okay 36 times a year you're writing a book a year you have so many stories so book a year you have so many stories so book a year you have so many stories so many analogies so many examples many analogies so many examples many analogies so many examples how do you track them how do you keep it how do you track them how do you keep it how do you track them how do you keep it fresh and you've been doing this for 29 fresh and you've been doing this for 29 fresh and you've been doing this for 29 years I mean you know I'm sure you've

years I mean you know I'm sure you've years I mean you know I'm sure you've retold a couple of stories from time to retold a couple of stories from time to retold a couple of stories from time to time but there's a lot of freshness in time but there's a lot of freshness in time but there's a lot of freshness in your work I tell a lot of stories over your work I tell a lot of stories over your work I tell a lot of stories over again there there's a an app our team again there there's a an app our team again there there's a an app our team gave me I don't know if we created it or gave me I don't know if we created it or gave me I don't know if we created it or whatever there's an app where I can go whatever there's an app where I can go whatever there's an app where I can go in and type anything in it pulls up from in and type anything in it pulls up from in and type anything in it pulls up from my sermon so it's not just like doing a my sermon so it's not just like doing a my sermon so it's not just like doing a word search on your computer but any word search on your computer but any word search on your computer but any kind of topic pulls up sermon so I can kind of topic pulls up sermon so I can kind of topic pulls up sermon so I can go back and look at what I've said go back and look at what I've said go back and look at what I've said before really helpful to me and then you before really helpful to me and then you before really helpful to me and then you know you asked about storytelling one of know you asked about storytelling one of know you asked about storytelling one of the things about storytelling is you the things about storytelling is you the things about storytelling is you know anytime anything happens that's know anytime anything happens that's know anytime anything happens that's interesting at all I'll put it I'll put interesting at all I'll put it I'll put interesting at all I'll put it I'll put it down somewhere I I I pulled in to my it down somewhere I I I pulled in to my it down somewhere I I I pulled in to my house the other night and there was house the other night and there was house the other night and there was three guys out in my yard and I just I three guys out in my yard and I just I three guys out in my yard and I just I instinctively ran toward them said who instinctively ran toward them said who instinctively ran toward them said who are you what are you doing well I didn't are you what are you doing well I didn't are you what are you doing well I didn't how dumb is that I was unarmed and I how dumb is that I was unarmed and I how dumb is that I was unarmed and I charged three guys is in my yard they charged three guys is in my yard they charged three guys is in my yard they happened to be Hunters who had shot a happened to be Hunters who had shot a happened to be Hunters who had shot a deer that wandered on into my yard but I deer that wandered on into my yard but I deer that wandered on into my yard but I I don't know how I use that but I wrote I don't know how I use that but I wrote I don't know how I use that but I wrote that down that'll that'll be a story that down that'll that'll be a story that down that'll that'll be a story somewhere someday because it's just dumb somewhere someday because it's just dumb somewhere someday because it's just dumb like you know it it'll be a story and so like you know it it'll be a story and so like you know it it'll be a story and so what you do is you you open up your eyes what you do is you you open up your eyes what you do is you you open up your eyes to say what is happening in life that is to say what is happening in life that is to say what is happening in life that is unusual or different and then just kind unusual or different and then just kind unusual or different and then just kind of categor and put it in a potential of categor and put it in a potential of categor and put it in a potential story file then how you tell it matters story file then how you tell it matters story file then how you tell it matters it can be a decent story and if you tell it can be a decent story and if you tell it can be a decent story and if you tell it well it's a good story it can be a it well it's a good story it can be a it well it's a good story it can be a great story you don't tell it well it's great story you don't tell it well it's great story you don't tell it well it's not a good story and you I'm looking all not a good story and you I'm looking all not a good story and you I'm looking all the time I I had a I I planted uh four the time I I had a I I planted uh four the time I I had a I I planted uh four fruit trees 20 years ago only one of

fruit trees 20 years ago only one of fruit trees 20 years ago only one of them lived it never produced any fruit them lived it never produced any fruit them lived it never produced any fruit it sat in my yard for 20 years I knew it sat in my yard for 20 years I knew it sat in my yard for 20 years I knew one day I talk about that stupid dang one day I talk about that stupid dang one day I talk about that stupid dang peach tree and sure enough I'm doing a peach tree and sure enough I'm doing a peach tree and sure enough I'm doing a series on spiritual fruit all leaves no series on spiritual fruit all leaves no series on spiritual fruit all leaves no fruit and I'm gonna tell it but it's fruit and I'm gonna tell it but it's fruit and I'm gonna tell it but it's been 20 years I've known that was going been 20 years I've known that was going been 20 years I've known that was going to be a story and it took 20 years to to be a story and it took 20 years to to be a story and it took 20 years to find a place for it and there it is so find a place for it and there it is so find a place for it and there it is so it's just having your antennas up it's just having your antennas up it's just having your antennas up all the small touches the other thing all the small touches the other thing all the small touches the other thing Carrie is I'm working on a message for Carrie is I'm working on a message for Carrie is I'm working on a message for like a month so every time I have a like a month so every time I have a like a month so every time I have a series I've outlined the series before series I've outlined the series before series I've outlined the series before we get there and it's just outlined and we get there and it's just outlined and we get there and it's just outlined and it's pretty good outline but but then it's pretty good outline but but then it's pretty good outline but but then I'll spend a full two days on it once I'll spend a full two days on it once I'll spend a full two days on it once it's outlined and and so from you I it's outlined and and so from you I it's outlined and and so from you I already know what I'm preaching on the already know what I'm preaching on the already know what I'm preaching on the next message series and so basically the next message series and so basically the next message series and so basically the buckets open longer so if you got a buckets open longer so if you got a buckets open longer so if you got a bucket open you can find things to put bucket open you can find things to put bucket open you can find things to put in bucket if you only have a week on it in bucket if you only have a week on it in bucket if you only have a week on it you're only going to have a week's worth you're only going to have a week's worth you're only going to have a week's worth of ideas come into your mind or two days of ideas come into your mind or two days of ideas come into your mind or two days or two days right so if I've got if I'm or two days right so if I've got if I'm or two days right so if I've got if I'm working on and essentially right now I'm working on and essentially right now I'm working on and essentially right now I'm working on seven or eight messages at working on seven or eight messages at working on seven or eight messages at one time I've got seven or eight files one time I've got seven or eight files one time I've got seven or eight files open that are those files attract open that are those files attract open that are those files attract stories because I'm my mind is thinking stories because I'm my mind is thinking stories because I'm my mind is thinking in that direction so it's just having in that direction so it's just having in that direction so it's just having more time with the idea open is really more time with the idea open is really more time with the idea open is really really really really valuable okay so the book is called valuable okay so the book is called valuable okay so the book is called benefit of the doubt um what's it about benefit of the doubt um what's it about benefit of the doubt um what's it about well the benefit of the doubt is is well the benefit of the doubt is is well the benefit of the doubt is is exactly what it what it sounds like it's exactly what it what it sounds like it's exactly what it what it sounds like it's about spiritual doubt and I I just woke

about spiritual doubt and I I just woke about spiritual doubt and I I just woke up number one I I have gone through you up number one I I have gone through you up number one I I have gone through you genuine real doubts and one of them is genuine real doubts and one of them is genuine real doubts and one of them is more more recent and I've talked kind of more more recent and I've talked kind of more more recent and I've talked kind of openly about it is like uh I just openly about it is like uh I just openly about it is like uh I just genuine I believe in the power of God to genuine I believe in the power of God to genuine I believe in the power of God to answer prayers I know God is a healing answer prayers I know God is a healing answer prayers I know God is a healing God care God care God care when I pray for healing people die it's when I pray for healing people die it's when I pray for healing people die it's the worst thing and and it's it's like the worst thing and and it's it's like the worst thing and and it's it's like very very disheartening to me because very very disheartening to me because very very disheartening to me because I've seen God do Supernatural Miracles I've seen God do Supernatural Miracles I've seen God do Supernatural Miracles over and over and over again but I over and over and over again but I over and over and over again but I prayed so hard so Faithfully for so many prayed so hard so Faithfully for so many prayed so hard so Faithfully for so many people close to me that are not here people close to me that are not here people close to me that are not here today it really kind of got into my head today it really kind of got into my head today it really kind of got into my head like what's I don't get it God you don't like what's I don't get it God you don't like what's I don't get it God you don't like like me don't like my prayers did like like me don't like my prayers did like like me don't like my prayers did you not really heal so that's one of you not really heal so that's one of you not really heal so that's one of maybe four kind of big categories of maybe four kind of big categories of maybe four kind of big categories of doubts I've dealt with doubts I've dealt with doubts I've dealt with um when I started talking about that I um when I started talking about that I um when I started talking about that I was just shocked at the way people was just shocked at the way people was just shocked at the way people resonated with it then if you take just resonated with it then if you take just resonated with it then if you take just my personal life um Amy and I have six my personal life um Amy and I have six my personal life um Amy and I have six kids we we homeschooled our kids back kids we we homeschooled our kids back kids we we homeschooled our kids back before it was relatively normal to before it was relatively normal to before it was relatively normal to homeschool it was really weird when we homeschool it was really weird when we homeschool it was really weird when we were doing it we had this massive were doing it we had this massive were doing it we had this massive community of homeschooled Christian kids community of homeschooled Christian kids community of homeschooled Christian kids just the most solid faith-filled Jesus just the most solid faith-filled Jesus just the most solid faith-filled Jesus loving kids that grew up in my home most loving kids that grew up in my home most loving kids that grew up in my home most of them call me dad and that whole of them call me dad and that whole of them call me dad and that whole generation of students now they're grown generation of students now they're grown generation of students now they're grown and a decent percentage of them are not and a decent percentage of them are not and a decent percentage of them are not in the church today they're not serving in the church today they're not serving in the church today they're not serving Jesus today and it and it just broke my Jesus today and it and it just broke my Jesus today and it and it just broke my heart and um so I really tried to do heart and um so I really tried to do heart and um so I really tried to do kind of a dive into the why like in our

kind of a dive into the why like in our kind of a dive into the why like in our community where do we get it right where community where do we get it right where community where do we get it right where do we get it wrong how do we get it do we get it wrong how do we get it do we get it wrong how do we get it wrong and I found one of the most common wrong and I found one of the most common wrong and I found one of the most common places that we often get it wrong in the places that we often get it wrong in the places that we often get it wrong in the church is that the moment someone starts church is that the moment someone starts church is that the moment someone starts to express any kind of doubt what what to express any kind of doubt what what to express any kind of doubt what what we do next can help determine the we do next can help determine the we do next can help determine the direction they go and if if they feel direction they go and if if they feel direction they go and if if they feel ashamed if they feel it's like it's ashamed if they feel it's like it's ashamed if they feel it's like it's unsafe to express doubts if they feel unsafe to express doubts if they feel unsafe to express doubts if they feel like they can't process them and they like they can't process them and they like they can't process them and they internalize them eventually about the internalize them eventually about the internalize them eventually about the only Direction they have to go is away only Direction they have to go is away only Direction they have to go is away from Jesus instead of toward Jesus so I from Jesus instead of toward Jesus so I from Jesus instead of toward Jesus so I wrote the book to help to help the the wrote the book to help to help the the wrote the book to help to help the the kids that I love that have walked away kids that I love that have walked away kids that I love that have walked away from the church and then to help someone from the church and then to help someone from the church and then to help someone who might be like me like a a pastor who might be like me like a a pastor who might be like me like a a pastor who's been serving Jesus for a long time who's been serving Jesus for a long time who's been serving Jesus for a long time that still wakes up and goes okay I that still wakes up and goes okay I that still wakes up and goes okay I believe this I believe the gospel and believe this I believe the gospel and believe this I believe the gospel and there's some things that I just don't there's some things that I just don't there's some things that I just don't understand I remember an existential understand I remember an existential understand I remember an existential crisis I had in faith probably 15 20 crisis I had in faith probably 15 20 crisis I had in faith probably 15 20 years ago it must have been 20 years ago years ago it must have been 20 years ago years ago it must have been 20 years ago it was at the other house and you know it was at the other house and you know it was at the other house and you know it was like one of those days I woke up it was like one of those days I woke up it was like one of those days I woke up and I'm like is any of this actually and I'm like is any of this actually and I'm like is any of this actually true did I just make it all up and you true did I just make it all up and you true did I just make it all up and you still have moments like that and days still have moments like that and days still have moments like that and days like that but uh I had a look through like that but uh I had a look through like that but uh I had a look through it's a it's a great book and I just so it's a it's a great book and I just so it's a it's a great book and I just so admire your contribution to the admire your contribution to the admire your contribution to the leadership Community uh to the church as leadership Community uh to the church as leadership Community uh to the church as a whole and really value your friendship a whole and really value your friendship a whole and really value your friendship and really value your leadership Craig I and really value your leadership Craig I and really value your leadership Craig I think sorry I interrupt you keep going think sorry I interrupt you keep going think sorry I interrupt you keep going you were saying nice stuff and just on you were saying nice stuff and just on you were saying nice stuff and just on behalf of of all of our listeners I know

behalf of of all of our listeners I know behalf of of all of our listeners I know uh how many hundreds of thousands uh how many hundreds of thousands uh how many hundreds of thousands millions of leaders that you help every millions of leaders that you help every millions of leaders that you help every year and I just want to say thank you year and I just want to say thank you year and I just want to say thank you well thank you and and to pastors I just well thank you and and to pastors I just well thank you and and to pastors I just want to say that um if you'd like to want to say that um if you'd like to want to say that um if you'd like to preach this book you know we've got preach this book you know we've got preach this book you know we've got outlines um available on it and and uh I outlines um available on it and and uh I outlines um available on it and and uh I think it it could be helpful just you think it it could be helpful just you think it it could be helpful just you know it's free take it and preach to know it's free take it and preach to know it's free take it and preach to your church and and um everything we can your church and and um everything we can your church and and um everything we can create that we can give away we want to create that we can give away we want to create that we can give away we want to do and and share to help um help other do and and share to help um help other do and and share to help um help other pastors but anyway I I feel the same to pastors but anyway I I feel the same to pastors but anyway I I feel the same to you your um your love for the church I you your um your love for the church I you your um your love for the church I love years ago we talked about your love years ago we talked about your love years ago we talked about your gifts and uh you said hey I'm having a gifts and uh you said hey I'm having a gifts and uh you said hey I'm having a big impact in the business community and big impact in the business community and big impact in the business community and in the church you know what do you think in the church you know what do you think in the church you know what do you think and and you know a lot of you could make and and you know a lot of you could make and and you know a lot of you could make an argument a lot of people say well you an argument a lot of people say well you an argument a lot of people say well you can make a lot more money in business can make a lot more money in business can make a lot more money in business than you can yeah but um but we talked than you can yeah but um but we talked than you can yeah but um but we talked about it and we agreed that you uh you about it and we agreed that you uh you about it and we agreed that you uh you could have a very unique impact on the could have a very unique impact on the could have a very unique impact on the church and you've you've invested your church and you've you've invested your church and you've you've invested your life toward that and I admire it Craig I life toward that and I admire it Craig I life toward that and I admire it Craig I got to tell you I still remember my got to tell you I still remember my got to tell you I still remember my backyard's right over there I know backyard's right over there I know backyard's right over there I know exactly where I was when we were on that exactly where I was when we were on that exactly where I was when we were on that phone call and I was weighing like is it phone call and I was weighing like is it phone call and I was weighing like is it a split audience or me a double down on a split audience or me a double down on a split audience or me a double down on the church and you said to me I can take the church and you said to me I can take the church and you said to me I can take you to the spot in my yard where I was you to the spot in my yard where I was you to the spot in my yard where I was standing you're like nobody ever standing you're like nobody ever standing you're like nobody ever regretted giving their life to the regretted giving their life to the regretted giving their life to the church and that was just like God church and that was just like God church and that was just like God sealing it on my heart and uh just have sealing it on my heart and uh just have sealing it on my heart and uh just have so benefited from your Council uh so benefited from your Council uh so benefited from your Council uh privately publicly just thank you so privately publicly just thank you so privately publicly just thank you so what we'll do is we'll get our teams what we'll do is we'll get our teams what we'll do is we'll get our teams together we'll link to everything we together we'll link to everything we together we'll link to everything we talked about in the show notes including talked about in the show notes including talked about in the show notes including that kit and if that happens to be an that kit and if that happens to be an that kit and if that happens to be an app that is publicly available where you

app that is publicly available where you app that is publicly available where you can upload all your sermons and like uh can upload all your sermons and like uh can upload all your sermons and like uh you know have a search basis we'll link you know have a search basis we'll link you know have a search basis we'll link to that app as well that would be one to that app as well that would be one to that app as well that would be one that I would enjoy uh Craig any last that I would enjoy uh Craig any last that I would enjoy uh Craig any last thing otherwise I just want to say thank thing otherwise I just want to say thank thing otherwise I just want to say thank you well I I just want to say thank you you well I I just want to say thank you you well I I just want to say thank you to um to you it if um if you're to um to you it if um if you're to um to you it if um if you're listening to Carrie and you're not listening to Carrie and you're not listening to Carrie and you're not enjoying his um daily emails get him I I enjoying his um daily emails get him I I enjoying his um daily emails get him I I read those things uh almost all the way read those things uh almost all the way read those things uh almost all the way through every single day and I listen to through every single day and I listen to through every single day and I listen to your your um podcast your content is your your um podcast your content is your your um podcast your content is helping me be better and so nobody ever helping me be better and so nobody ever helping me be better and so nobody ever regretted giving their life to the regretted giving their life to the regretted giving their life to the church and uh I'm glad you will not church and uh I'm glad you will not church and uh I'm glad you will not regret that it makes it makes me regret that it makes it makes me regret that it makes it makes me emotional to know that that contributed emotional to know that that contributed emotional to know that that contributed to what you're doing today and it's it to what you're doing today and it's it to what you're doing today and it's it genuinely is making a difference in my genuinely is making a difference in my genuinely is making a difference in my life and so many others more than you life and so many others more than you life and so many others more than you ever know thank you Craig thanks k