The Secrets to Winning in the Amazon Era with Mart Green

I'm I'm looking I guess for the I'm I'm looking I guess for the competitive advantage or the twist that competitive advantage or the twist that competitive advantage or the twist that kept you not only open but profitable kept you not only open but profitable kept you not only open but profitable when almost nobody else knew how to do when almost nobody else knew how to do when almost nobody else knew how to do that in the space we really really tried that in the space we really really tried that in the space we really really tried to emphasize service you know when to emphasize service you know when to emphasize service you know when people come in and they want help we people come in and they want help we people come in and they want help we want to have somebody there that's able want to have somebody there that's able want to have somebody there that's able to answer the question are we perfect at to answer the question are we perfect at to answer the question are we perfect at that no are we above average yes we are that no are we above average yes we are that no are we above average yes we are above average and so I would say service above average and so I would say service above average and so I would say service was one of those areas the other would was one of those areas the other would was one of those areas the other would be selection we try to carry a broad be selection we try to carry a broad be selection we try to carry a broad selection uh we would take uh comment selection uh we would take uh comment selection uh we would take uh comment cards we would hand them out and ask our cards we would hand them out and ask our cards we would hand them out and ask our customers how are we doing and we would customers how are we doing and we would customers how are we doing and we would rate those we compareed them to stores rate those we compareed them to stores rate those we compareed them to stores so every year we'd get a hundred cards so every year we'd get a hundred cards so every year we'd get a hundred cards we'd hand them out to we got hundred so we'd hand them out to we got hundred so we'd hand them out to we got hundred so we have hundred people saying your we have hundred people saying your we have hundred people saying your service is lousy or it's good or service is lousy or it's good or service is lousy or it's good or whatever and several other things we whatever and several other things we whatever and several other things we worked really really hard to say guys worked really really hard to say guys worked really really hard to say guys your scores have got up some reason your your scores have got up some reason your your scores have got up some reason your scores aren't up let's help you welcome scores aren't up let's help you welcome scores aren't up let's help you welcome to the K newoff leadership podcast I'm to the K newoff leadership podcast I'm to the K newoff leadership podcast I'm so glad you joined us today hey you ever so glad you joined us today hey you ever so glad you joined us today hey you ever wonder what it's like to defy Amazon wonder what it's like to defy Amazon wonder what it's like to defy Amazon like can you be that startup that really like can you be that startup that really like can you be that startup that really defies the trends we're going to talk to defies the trends we're going to talk to defies the trends we're going to talk to one of the ogs in Christian book selling one of the ogs in Christian book selling one of the ogs in Christian book selling and that is Mart green the Green family and that is Mart green the Green family and that is Mart green the Green family of Hobby Lobby also talk about a lot of of Hobby Lobby also talk about a lot of of Hobby Lobby also talk about a lot of things with the Green family that he things with the Green family that he things with the Green family that he gets us campaign and a whole lot more gets us campaign and a whole lot more gets us campaign and a whole lot more but how do you actually beat a giant at but how do you actually beat a giant at but how do you actually beat a giant at its own game well we're going to talk its own game well we're going to talk its own game well we're going to talk about that and a whole lot more so we're about that and a whole lot more so we're about that and a whole lot more so we're going to do something today that is fun going to do something today that is fun going to do something today that is fun for those of you who are watching we're for those of you who are watching we're for those of you who are watching we're going to give away five copies of Mart's going to give away five copies of Mart's going to give away five copies of Mart's new book learning to be loved the way to new book learning to be loved the way to new book learning to be loved the way to do that is just in the comments say I'm

do that is just in the comments say I'm do that is just in the comments say I'm ready to read and you may be one of the ready to read and you may be one of the ready to read and you may be one of the five that we select to get a copy of five that we select to get a copy of five that we select to get a copy of Mart's new book now we're going to hear Mart's new book now we're going to hear Mart's new book now we're going to hear a word from our sponsors and then to a word from our sponsors and then to a word from our sponsors and then to today's conversation this episode is today's conversation this episode is today's conversation this episode is brought to you by Glue you know what you brought to you by Glue you know what you brought to you by Glue you know what you do as a church leader matters but how do do as a church leader matters but how do do as a church leader matters but how do you know if your ministry is growing and you know if your ministry is growing and you know if your ministry is growing and thriving well now Church metrics is thriving well now Church metrics is thriving well now Church metrics is fully integrated with glue making it fully integrated with glue making it fully integrated with glue making it easier than ever to track and understand easier than ever to track and understand easier than ever to track and understand your congregation's impact so you can your congregation's impact so you can your congregation's impact so you can transform your weekly meetings by transform your weekly meetings by transform your weekly meetings by seamlessly syncing your account and seamlessly syncing your account and seamlessly syncing your account and watching your dashboard come to life watching your dashboard come to life watching your dashboard come to life you'll get realtime insights on you'll get realtime insights on you'll get realtime insights on attendance giving salvations and attendance giving salvations and attendance giving salvations and volunteers all in one place you can volunteers all in one place you can volunteers all in one place you can compare your numbers year-over-year you compare your numbers year-over-year you compare your numbers year-over-year you can look across campuses or even against can look across campuses or even against can look across campuses or even against National Church Trends plus AI powered National Church Trends plus AI powered National Church Trends plus AI powered insights help you make smarter data insights help you make smarter data insights help you make smarter data informed Ministry decisions so don't informed Ministry decisions so don't informed Ministry decisions so don't just lead lead with Clarity visit glue. just lead lead with Clarity visit glue. just lead lead with Clarity visit glue. us/ insites to un BL valuable insights us/ insites to un BL valuable insights us/ insites to un BL valuable insights today this episode is brought to you by today this episode is brought to you by today this episode is brought to you by Upward Sports new research shows that Upward Sports new research shows that Upward Sports new research shows that 67% of pastors say sharing the gospel 67% of pastors say sharing the gospel 67% of pastors say sharing the gospel with non-christians is my church's top with non-christians is my church's top with non-christians is my church's top priority meanwhile only 1% of churches priority meanwhile only 1% of churches priority meanwhile only 1% of churches say they are quote very effective in say they are quote very effective in say they are quote very effective in reaching out to the unchurched so have reaching out to the unchurched so have reaching out to the unchurched so have you thought about using Sports as your you thought about using Sports as your you thought about using Sports as your invite to your church Upward Sports invite to your church Upward Sports invite to your church Upward Sports equips churches to run self-sustaining equips churches to run self-sustaining equips churches to run self-sustaining Sports Ministries in their communities Sports Ministries in their communities Sports Ministries in their communities you heard that right self- sustaining it

you heard that right self- sustaining it you heard that right self- sustaining it pays for itself last year 51% of the pays for itself last year 51% of the pays for itself last year 51% of the participants who played Upward Sports participants who played Upward Sports participants who played Upward Sports had no church affiliation all of those had no church affiliation all of those had no church affiliation all of those participants have parents siblings and participants have parents siblings and participants have parents siblings and other friends and family members that other friends and family members that other friends and family members that will come out and interact with your will come out and interact with your will come out and interact with your weekly sports League upward offers weekly sports League upward offers weekly sports League upward offers basketball soccer flag football basketball soccer flag football basketball soccer flag football volleyball baseball softball running and volleyball baseball softball running and volleyball baseball softball running and starting next month even pickle ball starting next month even pickle ball starting next month even pickle ball Upward Sports is ready to equip train Upward Sports is ready to equip train Upward Sports is ready to equip train and support you every step of the way and support you every step of the way and support you every step of the way you can learn more at upward.org carry you can learn more at upward.org carry you can learn more at upward.org carry that's upward.org that's upward.org that's upward.org g/c y well welcome to the podcast Mart g/c y well welcome to the podcast Mart g/c y well welcome to the podcast Mart it's great to have you great to be here it's great to have you great to be here it's great to have you great to be here Carrie looking forward to it so I want Carrie looking forward to it so I want Carrie looking forward to it so I want to cover a lot of topics today this is to cover a lot of topics today this is to cover a lot of topics today this is the first time you've been on the show the first time you've been on the show the first time you've been on the show and I'd love to start with how you and I'd love to start with how you and I'd love to start with how you discovered that you could make a discovered that you could make a discovered that you could make a contribution to Hobby Lobby we have a contribution to Hobby Lobby we have a contribution to Hobby Lobby we have a lot of people who are in generational lot of people who are in generational lot of people who are in generational business and actually believe it or not business and actually believe it or not business and actually believe it or not generational churches right Dad was a generational churches right Dad was a generational churches right Dad was a pastor I'm taking it over that kind of pastor I'm taking it over that kind of pastor I'm taking it over that kind of thing so a lot of second generation thing so a lot of second generation thing so a lot of second generation people try to figure out their role in people try to figure out their role in people try to figure out their role in the organization church or company how the organization church or company how the organization church or company how did that happen for you yeah everybody's did that happen for you yeah everybody's did that happen for you yeah everybody's story is unique of course and how they story is unique of course and how they story is unique of course and how they got involved and for us it was 1970 I got involved and for us it was 1970 I got involved and for us it was 1970 I was N9 years old my dad borrowed $600 was N9 years old my dad borrowed $600 was N9 years old my dad borrowed $600 that's the most the bank would loan him that's the most the bank would loan him that's the most the bank would loan him so to start a business you don't you so to start a business you don't you so to start a business you don't you can't do a lot of 600 bucks right and so can't do a lot of 600 bucks right and so can't do a lot of 600 bucks right and so my dad had to keep his job my mom worked

my dad had to keep his job my mom worked my dad had to keep his job my mom worked for free and then he bought a chopper for free and then he bought a chopper for free and then he bought a chopper that would chop wood and then bought that would chop wood and then bought that would chop wood and then bought sticks of wood and we cut those and we sticks of wood and we cut those and we sticks of wood and we cut those and we would glue them together to make mini would glue them together to make mini would glue them together to make mini frames and so I got paid seven Cents by frames and so I got paid seven Cents by frames and so I got paid seven Cents by brother who was seven got paid seven brother who was seven got paid seven brother who was seven got paid seven cents and my sister was three at that cents and my sister was three at that cents and my sister was three at that time and the child labor laws in our time and the child labor laws in our time and the child labor laws in our house were five so she didn't have to house were five so she didn't have to house were five so she didn't have to work so at five you just went to work work so at five you just went to work work so at five you just went to work and uh I I'd worked at my dad's other and uh I I'd worked at my dad's other and uh I I'd worked at my dad's other company I'd go in and tear covers off company I'd go in and tear covers off company I'd go in and tear covers off books so they could send them back back books so they could send them back back books so they could send them back back and so we were just used to working we and so we were just used to working we and so we were just used to working we just assumed everybody went to work when just assumed everybody went to work when just assumed everybody went to work when they were five and six years old so they were five and six years old so they were five and six years old so anyway at 9ine we just started gluing anyway at 9ine we just started gluing anyway at 9ine we just started gluing frames and uh so I guess for us we were frames and uh so I guess for us we were frames and uh so I guess for us we were almost born in the business you know I almost born in the business you know I almost born in the business you know I know that's not everybody's story so know that's not everybody's story so know that's not everybody's story so ours is a unique story it just became a ours is a unique story it just became a ours is a unique story it just became a family business so my brother and my family business so my brother and my family business so my brother and my sister my parents um have all been sister my parents um have all been sister my parents um have all been working together since working together since working together since 1970 um and all of us are still in the 1970 um and all of us are still in the 1970 um and all of us are still in the business now my sister married a fella business now my sister married a fella business now my sister married a fella and he's in the business my wife and and he's in the business my wife and and he's in the business my wife and Steve's wife both chose to be uh Steve's wife both chose to be uh Steve's wife both chose to be uh Housewives and mothers and so they Housewives and mothers and so they Housewives and mothers and so they didn't work in the business but uh we've didn't work in the business but uh we've didn't work in the business but uh we've been doing it so it just was kind of been doing it so it just was kind of been doing it so it just was kind of something that almost happened naturally something that almost happened naturally something that almost happened naturally and organic I suppose Carrie so I know and organic I suppose Carrie so I know and organic I suppose Carrie so I know that's not everybody's story but that's that's not everybody's story but that's that's not everybody's story but that's kind of our unique way of getting the kind of our unique way of getting the kind of our unique way of getting the business I'm curious as to what the business I'm curious as to what the business I'm curious as to what the Dynamics were that made you want to stay Dynamics were that made you want to stay Dynamics were that made you want to stay I mean arguably at nine you don't have a I mean arguably at nine you don't have a I mean arguably at nine you don't have a choice right Dad says do this you do choice right Dad says do this you do choice right Dad says do this you do this but at this but at this but at 19 uh or 29 you've got options so what 19 uh or 29 you've got options so what 19 uh or 29 you've got options so what what happened in those years where you what happened in those years where you what happened in those years where you kind of came into your own and obviously kind of came into your own and obviously kind of came into your own and obviously made a decision long term to to stay

made a decision long term to to stay made a decision long term to to stay there yeah my story is a little there yeah my story is a little there yeah my story is a little different than my brothers and sisters different than my brothers and sisters different than my brothers and sisters because when I was 19 I was at college because when I was 19 I was at college because when I was 19 I was at college so we would work each summer and I loved so we would work each summer and I loved so we would work each summer and I loved overtime you know because uh the minimum overtime you know because uh the minimum overtime you know because uh the minimum wage was $3 and overtime you got paid wage was $3 and overtime you got paid wage was $3 and overtime you got paid $450 it was unbelievable I would work 60 $450 it was unbelievable I would work 60 $450 it was unbelievable I would work 60 and 70 hours I would go in before and 70 hours I would go in before and 70 hours I would go in before anybody El a Hobby Lobby price anybody El a Hobby Lobby price anybody El a Hobby Lobby price merchandise work as many hours as got I merchandise work as many hours as got I merchandise work as many hours as got I could because I just thought that was could because I just thought that was could because I just thought that was fantastic so uh was at College I having fantastic so uh was at College I having fantastic so uh was at College I having to pay for college I was going a to pay for college I was going a to pay for college I was going a semester kind of taking a semester off semester kind of taking a semester off semester kind of taking a semester off working so I can pay through the next working so I can pay through the next working so I can pay through the next semester and uh my dad called one time semester and uh my dad called one time semester and uh my dad called one time and said uh I'm thinking about maybe and said uh I'm thinking about maybe and said uh I'm thinking about maybe doing Christian bookstore someday well doing Christian bookstore someday well doing Christian bookstore someday well my dad's an entrepreneur he talked about my dad's an entrepreneur he talked about my dad's an entrepreneur he talked about doing a barbecue stand you know doing a barbecue stand you know doing a barbecue stand you know different things and I'm like no no but different things and I'm like no no but different things and I'm like no no but Christian bookstore I thought wow retail Christian bookstore I thought wow retail Christian bookstore I thought wow retail and the product you sold could make a and the product you sold could make a and the product you sold could make a difference in people's lives and so difference in people's lives and so difference in people's lives and so about a week later I called him back to about a week later I called him back to about a week later I called him back to Dad are you really going to do that Som Dad are you really going to do that Som Dad are you really going to do that Som days as well if if you want to come home days as well if if you want to come home days as well if if you want to come home from school I'll help you get a loan and from school I'll help you get a loan and from school I'll help you get a loan and you can do it I said well okay I guess you can do it I said well okay I guess you can do it I said well okay I guess you know so I finished that semester out you know so I finished that semester out you know so I finished that semester out I was going have to come home and work I was going have to come home and work I was going have to come home and work anyway um and so I started my own anyway um and so I started my own anyway um and so I started my own business called Mardell they're not business called Mardell they're not business called Mardell they're not Nationwide mardell's Christian education Nationwide mardell's Christian education Nationwide mardell's Christian education stores there's 41 of those mainly the stores there's 41 of those mainly the stores there's 41 of those mainly the central part of the us so it's a full central part of the us so it's a full central part of the us so it's a full line Christian bookstore full line line Christian bookstore full line line Christian bookstore full line educational store so started that in educational store so started that in educational store so started that in 1981 11 years later so that's where I 1981 11 years later so that's where I 1981 11 years later so that's where I spent 30 my next 35 years of my career spent 30 my next 35 years of my career spent 30 my next 35 years of my career was doing Mardell where my brother and was doing Mardell where my brother and was doing Mardell where my brother and sister and Dad stayed at HBY Lobby sister and Dad stayed at HBY Lobby sister and Dad stayed at HBY Lobby worked there with my mom now I'm on the worked there with my mom now I'm on the worked there with my mom now I'm on the board of Hobby Lobby but I nobody at board of Hobby Lobby but I nobody at board of Hobby Lobby but I nobody at Hobby Lobby worked for me for all those

Hobby Lobby worked for me for all those Hobby Lobby worked for me for all those years and so so I kind of found another years and so so I kind of found another years and so so I kind of found another retail uh that was exciting for me now retail uh that was exciting for me now retail uh that was exciting for me now had that not happened I'm sure I would had that not happened I'm sure I would had that not happened I'm sure I would have stayed at Hobby Lobby and it's just have stayed at Hobby Lobby and it's just have stayed at Hobby Lobby and it's just fun something that's growing I mean we fun something that's growing I mean we fun something that's growing I mean we started with $600 the first St was 1,200 started with $600 the first St was 1,200 started with $600 the first St was 1,200 square feet you know then we finally square feet you know then we finally square feet you know then we finally opened one that was 3,000 and then we opened one that was 3,000 and then we opened one that was 3,000 and then we expanded it and you know now today we expanded it and you know now today we expanded it and you know now today we have we'll end 2024 uh with 1,3 37 Hobby have we'll end 2024 uh with 1,3 37 Hobby have we'll end 2024 uh with 1,3 37 Hobby Lobby stores and so it's just been fun Lobby stores and so it's just been fun Lobby stores and so it's just been fun to see something grow like that it's to see something grow like that it's to see something grow like that it's been fun to see the gr family grow with been fun to see the gr family grow with been fun to see the gr family grow with it because obviously we could not run a it because obviously we could not run a it because obviously we could not run a company that had a thousand stores when company that had a thousand stores when company that had a thousand stores when we started but we had to learn and we started but we had to learn and we started but we had to learn and because we kind of were Brick Layers we because we kind of were Brick Layers we because we kind of were Brick Layers we did one brick and then another brick and did one brick and then another brick and did one brick and then another brick and another brick and so people would talk another brick and so people would talk another brick and so people would talk about this overnight success we go man about this overnight success we go man about this overnight success we go man you weren't here the first 20 years this you weren't here the first 20 years this you weren't here the first 20 years this not a 20 you missed the crawl stage the not a 20 you missed the crawl stage the not a 20 you missed the crawl stage the walk stage all that so uh but it was walk stage all that so uh but it was walk stage all that so uh but it was just fun to be a part of what Hobby just fun to be a part of what Hobby just fun to be a part of what Hobby Lobby was doing and uh not only that it Lobby was doing and uh not only that it Lobby was doing and uh not only that it was we felt like it did excellent in was we felt like it did excellent in was we felt like it did excellent in Ministry I mean in in retail but we also Ministry I mean in in retail but we also Ministry I mean in in retail but we also know was a it was really a Ministry arm know was a it was really a Ministry arm know was a it was really a Ministry arm for us you know because we knew that if for us you know because we knew that if for us you know because we knew that if we could make money we could give money we could make money we could give money we could make money we could give money so that's that also made it very very so that's that also made it very very so that's that also made it very very attractive for us to stay around well attractive for us to stay around well attractive for us to stay around well it's interesting that you know your it's interesting that you know your it's interesting that you know your chosen three decades plus was in uh in chosen three decades plus was in uh in chosen three decades plus was in uh in in Christian books because as you may in Christian books because as you may in Christian books because as you may have noticed bookstores have been have noticed bookstores have been have noticed bookstores have been through through a real roller coaster through through a real roller coaster through through a real roller coaster over the last few decades tell us about over the last few decades tell us about over the last few decades tell us about how that worked for you because they're how that worked for you because they're how that worked for you because they're still going concerns so what was that

still going concerns so what was that still going concerns so what was that like huge Market shift like for you and like huge Market shift like for you and like huge Market shift like for you and Mardell no it's great actually when I Mardell no it's great actually when I Mardell no it's great actually when I started Marell 1981 the first store that started Marell 1981 the first store that started Marell 1981 the first store that I found was too big for a Christian I found was too big for a Christian I found was too big for a Christian bookstore so my dad said why don't you bookstore so my dad said why don't you bookstore so my dad said why don't you play put office supplies in I he on play put office supplies in I he on play put office supplies in I he on office supply store because we're not PR office supply store because we're not PR office supply store because we're not PR this pre- Office Max Office Depot yeah this pre- Office Max Office Depot yeah this pre- Office Max Office Depot yeah usually it was delivered so office usually it was delivered so office usually it was delivered so office supplies was delivered so you go in the supplies was delivered so you go in the supplies was delivered so you go in the store nothing was marked there was no store nothing was marked there was no store nothing was marked there was no prices all the boxes looked the same it prices all the boxes looked the same it prices all the boxes looked the same it wasn't made for packaging or marketing wasn't made for packaging or marketing wasn't made for packaging or marketing and so we said yeah we don't we're not and so we said yeah we don't we're not and so we said yeah we don't we're not going to deliver it to you we won't have going to deliver it to you we won't have going to deliver it to you we won't have sales rep and so we'll just we'll we'll sales rep and so we'll just we'll we'll sales rep and so we'll just we'll we'll have discount off supplies so ell was have discount off supplies so ell was have discount off supplies so ell was Christian off supplies and then a few Christian off supplies and then a few Christian off supplies and then a few later years later office me Max and later years later office me Max and later years later office me Max and Office Depot came out so I flew to Office Depot came out so I flew to Office Depot came out so I flew to Florida to look at them I thought Whoa Florida to look at them I thought Whoa Florida to look at them I thought Whoa man they got machines and they got man they got machines and they got man they got machines and they got furniture and we were just supplies furniture and we were just supplies furniture and we were just supplies we're not going to do well so I thought we're not going to do well so I thought we're not going to do well so I thought well what would Christian Depot look well what would Christian Depot look well what would Christian Depot look like you know how do become that and so like you know how do become that and so like you know how do become that and so and then over time we evolved and and then over time we evolved and and then over time we evolved and realized off supplies was not going to realized off supplies was not going to realized off supplies was not going to carry half its weight which it was at carry half its weight which it was at carry half its weight which it was at that time and so we just started putting that time and so we just started putting that time and so we just started putting educational in the neat thing about educational in the neat thing about educational in the neat thing about education is education's christmas its education is education's christmas its education is education's christmas its busy season is July and August well busy season is July and August well busy season is July and August well Christian bookstores are around holidays Christian bookstores are around holidays Christian bookstores are around holidays so it just so happened it kind of evened so it just so happened it kind of evened so it just so happened it kind of evened out the ebb and flow now we still have out the ebb and flow now we still have out the ebb and flow now we still have ups and downs Christmas is still at a ups and downs Christmas is still at a ups and downs Christmas is still at a peak moment for a Christian bookstore peak moment for a Christian bookstore peak moment for a Christian bookstore but for uh for an educational store so but for uh for an educational store so but for uh for an educational store so we serve a public School teachers hom we serve a public School teachers hom we serve a public School teachers hom School teachers and so yeah we had lots School teachers and so yeah we had lots School teachers and so yeah we had lots of selection and um so fortunately we of selection and um so fortunately we of selection and um so fortunately we have been able to make it yeah most of have been able to make it yeah most of have been able to make it yeah most of the chains have have closed in Christian

the chains have have closed in Christian the chains have have closed in Christian bookstores a lot of Christian bookstores bookstores a lot of Christian bookstores bookstores a lot of Christian bookstores have closed down because of the economic have closed down because of the economic have closed down because of the economic situations and the way books are sold situations and the way books are sold situations and the way books are sold how music was sold music sales went away how music was sold music sales went away how music was sold music sales went away used to we had music sales was a good used to we had music sales was a good used to we had music sales was a good percent of our sales now it's a very percent of our sales now it's a very percent of our sales now it's a very small percent so yeah as a retailer you small percent so yeah as a retailer you small percent so yeah as a retailer you just have to adjust you have to do new just have to adjust you have to do new just have to adjust you have to do new things we used to didn't have wearables things we used to didn't have wearables things we used to didn't have wearables we didn't have much clothing at all now we didn't have much clothing at all now we didn't have much clothing at all now we have a big weables department because we have a big weables department because we have a big weables department because that we had to take the place of music that we had to take the place of music that we had to take the place of music so where music was now wearables is and so where music was now wearables is and so where music was now wearables is and then where off supplies was education so then where off supplies was education so then where off supplies was education so it's a growing thing it always evolves it's a growing thing it always evolves it's a growing thing it always evolves and so you have to keep up with the and so you have to keep up with the and so you have to keep up with the market but so far we've been able to do market but so far we've been able to do market but so far we've been able to do that and like I said we have 41 stores that and like I said we have 41 stores that and like I said we have 41 stores that are doing very well and are that are doing very well and are that are doing very well and are profitable and uh excited about the profitable and uh excited about the profitable and uh excited about the future that's a lot of pivoting which by future that's a lot of pivoting which by future that's a lot of pivoting which by the way congratulations because almost the way congratulations because almost the way congratulations because almost nobody else in your field was able to do nobody else in your field was able to do nobody else in your field was able to do that when you think about because I that when you think about because I that when you think about because I think this is you know church leaders think this is you know church leaders think this is you know church leaders struggle with Church online versus struggle with Church online versus struggle with Church online versus Church in person and it's very tempting Church in person and it's very tempting Church in person and it's very tempting as a pastor to see online as the enemy as a pastor to see online as the enemy as a pastor to see online as the enemy right it's like we need people in seats right it's like we need people in seats right it's like we need people in seats and so your Contender probably was and so your Contender probably was and so your Contender probably was Amazon right which you know you look at Amazon right which you know you look at Amazon right which you know you look at that they've got $10,000 for every that they've got $10,000 for every that they've got $10,000 for every dollar you have in terms of retail sales dollar you have in terms of retail sales dollar you have in terms of retail sales Etc yeah how did you when you think Etc yeah how did you when you think Etc yeah how did you when you think about all the market shakeup over the about all the market shakeup over the about all the market shakeup over the last two decades two and a half decades last two decades two and a half decades last two decades two and a half decades with Amazon how have you managed to to with Amazon how have you managed to to with Amazon how have you managed to to keep selling physical books in a retail keep selling physical books in a retail keep selling physical books in a retail location like obviously it's a smaller location like obviously it's a smaller location like obviously it's a smaller part of your business than maybe it was part of your business than maybe it was part of your business than maybe it was or maybe not but like how how have you or maybe not but like how how have you or maybe not but like how how have you even remained viable as a

even remained viable as a even remained viable as a bookstore yeah people still enjoy the bookstore yeah people still enjoy the bookstore yeah people still enjoy the shopping experience some some want some shopping experience some some want some shopping experience some some want some want to do it on Kindle so they download want to do it on Kindle so they download want to do it on Kindle so they download that so there's obviously Room for that so there's obviously Room for that so there's obviously Room for Amazon but there's still people who want Amazon but there's still people who want Amazon but there's still people who want to go to a bookstore look at the product to go to a bookstore look at the product to go to a bookstore look at the product see it on the Shelf be open to open it see it on the Shelf be open to open it see it on the Shelf be open to open it look through a chapter and do all that look through a chapter and do all that look through a chapter and do all that so there's still people are very tactile so there's still people are very tactile so there's still people are very tactile that want to shop now if you're a Kindle that want to shop now if you're a Kindle that want to shop now if you're a Kindle person we we're not for you right and so person we we're not for you right and so person we we're not for you right and so uh that's been great Bible sales have uh that's been great Bible sales have uh that's been great Bible sales have continued to grow over the years and continued to grow over the years and continued to grow over the years and even with people like you version you even with people like you version you even with people like you version you can get a free Bible you can download a can get a free Bible you can download a can get a free Bible you can download a free Bible if you want to but still free Bible if you want to but still free Bible if you want to but still people want to have a physical Bible so people want to have a physical Bible so people want to have a physical Bible so that's true for books and bibles uh for that's true for books and bibles uh for that's true for books and bibles uh for music it wasn't people don't want to music it wasn't people don't want to music it wasn't people don't want to carry around CDs anymore and so yeah carry around CDs anymore and so yeah carry around CDs anymore and so yeah like I say it was different I had you like I say it was different I had you like I say it was different I had you had to look at each category differently had to look at each category differently had to look at each category differently uh but but yes people still want to come uh but but yes people still want to come uh but but yes people still want to come in have an experience so we try to have in have an experience so we try to have in have an experience so we try to have an experience so people come in they an experience so people come in they an experience so people come in they enjoy the music they enjoy being able enjoy the music they enjoy being able enjoy the music they enjoy being able around around other believers and having around around other believers and having around around other believers and having an atmosphere having a store that's got an atmosphere having a store that's got an atmosphere having a store that's got large size a large selection and so uh large size a large selection and so uh large size a large selection and so uh we worked hard at that you know before we worked hard at that you know before we worked hard at that you know before we had competition like Amazon and so we had competition like Amazon and so we had competition like Amazon and so we' still been able to keep the core we' still been able to keep the core we' still been able to keep the core customers and um and and adapt like I customers and um and and adapt like I customers and um and and adapt like I say in certain areas like I say now we say in certain areas like I say now we say in certain areas like I say now we have wearables we have lots of shirts have wearables we have lots of shirts have wearables we have lots of shirts and different clothing items that we and different clothing items that we and different clothing items that we didn't have before because we just saw didn't have before because we just saw didn't have before because we just saw that was that was that was available I think I've spent enough time available I think I've spent enough time available I think I've spent enough time around your family to know that this around your family to know that this around your family to know that this might be un comfortable for you to might be un comfortable for you to might be un comfortable for you to answer but I'm going to ask you to answer but I'm going to ask you to answer but I'm going to ask you to answer it answer it answer it anyway that's not going to stop you okay anyway that's not going to stop you okay anyway that's not going to stop you okay yeah what did cuz because any any book yeah what did cuz because any any book yeah what did cuz because any any book seller could make that argument right

seller could make that argument right seller could make that argument right there are people who want hard copies there are people who want hard copies there are people who want hard copies there are people who enjoy going into a there are people who enjoy going into a there are people who enjoy going into a bookstore and feeling it and a lot of bookstore and feeling it and a lot of bookstore and feeling it and a lot of them are closed today what what would them are closed today what what would them are closed today what what would you say the difference is why is Mardell you say the difference is why is Mardell you say the difference is why is Mardell still open with 41 locations which when still open with 41 locations which when still open with 41 locations which when entire chains have gone bankrupt and entire chains have gone bankrupt and entire chains have gone bankrupt and independents have gone bankrupt and lots independents have gone bankrupt and lots independents have gone bankrupt and lots of other people have closed their doors of other people have closed their doors of other people have closed their doors was there I'm I'm looking I guess for was there I'm I'm looking I guess for was there I'm I'm looking I guess for the competitive advantage or the twist the competitive advantage or the twist the competitive advantage or the twist that kept you not only open but that kept you not only open but that kept you not only open but profitable when almost nobody else knew profitable when almost nobody else knew profitable when almost nobody else knew how to do that in the space yeah I'm how to do that in the space yeah I'm how to do that in the space yeah I'm sure it'd be lots of things I mean we sure it'd be lots of things I mean we sure it'd be lots of things I mean we really really tried to emphasize service really really tried to emphasize service really really tried to emphasize service you know when people come in and they you know when people come in and they you know when people come in and they want help we want to have somebody there want help we want to have somebody there want help we want to have somebody there that's able to answer the question are that's able to answer the question are that's able to answer the question are we perfect at that no are we above we perfect at that no are we above we perfect at that no are we above average yes we are above average and so average yes we are above average and so average yes we are above average and so I would say service was one of those I would say service was one of those I would say service was one of those areas the other would be selection we areas the other would be selection we areas the other would be selection we try to carry a broad selection a lot of try to carry a broad selection a lot of try to carry a broad selection a lot of Christian bookstores some the Christian bookstores some the Christian bookstores some the competition was much smaller in size so competition was much smaller in size so competition was much smaller in size so they didn't have as many as much they didn't have as many as much they didn't have as many as much selection whether it's books music other selection whether it's books music other selection whether it's books music other things so we felt like the selection had things so we felt like the selection had things so we felt like the selection had and then I said we had variety we also and then I said we had variety we also and then I said we had variety we also had educational so if you're a had educational so if you're a had educational so if you're a homeschool teacher we met two of your homeschool teacher we met two of your homeschool teacher we met two of your needs you had oh I can buy that and I needs you had oh I can buy that and I needs you had oh I can buy that and I also get my Christian my homeschool also get my Christian my homeschool also get my Christian my homeschool education because used I had to order education because used I had to order education because used I had to order that well you have to order you get it that well you have to order you get it that well you have to order you get it in oh I don't like that it's not made in oh I don't like that it's not made in oh I don't like that it's not made for my child I got to send it back well for my child I got to send it back well for my child I got to send it back well that's that's a hassle verse coming into that's that's a hassle verse coming into that's that's a hassle verse coming into the store and seeing all six of them the store and seeing all six of them the store and seeing all six of them sitting down at the table oh open it up sitting down at the table oh open it up sitting down at the table oh open it up having somebody there who says oh we've having somebody there who says oh we've having somebody there who says oh we've homeschooled before oh you're looking homeschooled before oh you're looking homeschooled before oh you're looking your child is this kind of a learner you your child is this kind of a learner you your child is this kind of a learner you might like this better so we work really might like this better so we work really might like this better so we work really really hard on trying to add that really hard on trying to add that really hard on trying to add that service will some somebody came in we

service will some somebody came in we service will some somebody came in we could be there now some people don't could be there now some people don't could be there now some people don't like service they know what they want like service they know what they want like service they know what they want they know where they're going so you they know where they're going so you they know where they're going so you have to do that so I felt like what we have to do that so I felt like what we have to do that so I felt like what we tried really hard to do is emphasize uh tried really hard to do is emphasize uh tried really hard to do is emphasize uh we would take uh comment cards we would we would take uh comment cards we would we would take uh comment cards we would hand them out and ask our customers how hand them out and ask our customers how hand them out and ask our customers how are we doing and we would rate those We are we doing and we would rate those We are we doing and we would rate those We compare them to stores so every year compare them to stores so every year compare them to stores so every year we'd get a 100 cards we'd hand them out we'd get a 100 cards we'd hand them out we'd get a 100 cards we'd hand them out till we got a 100 we have a 100 people till we got a 100 we have a 100 people till we got a 100 we have a 100 people saying your service is lousy or it's saying your service is lousy or it's saying your service is lousy or it's good or whatever and several other good or whatever and several other good or whatever and several other things we worked really really hard to things we worked really really hard to things we worked really really hard to say guys your scores have got up some say guys your scores have got up some say guys your scores have got up some reason your scores aren't up let's help reason your scores aren't up let's help reason your scores aren't up let's help you let's train you let's find those you let's train you let's find those you let's train you let's find those areas and so we made an emphasis areas and so we made an emphasis areas and so we made an emphasis whatever you measure winds up happening whatever you measure winds up happening whatever you measure winds up happening and so I would say probably that service and so I would say probably that service and so I would say probably that service and selection were a couple of things and selection were a couple of things and selection were a couple of things that we did that might have been that we did that might have been that we did that might have been different than different stores along different than different stores along different than different stores along the way yeah well and you know longevity the way yeah well and you know longevity the way yeah well and you know longevity often works in your favor because what I often works in your favor because what I often works in your favor because what I just read a piece recently just read a piece recently just read a piece recently not in the Christian sphere but just in not in the Christian sphere but just in not in the Christian sphere but just in the mainline sphere and like independent the mainline sphere and like independent the mainline sphere and like independent bookstores are making a comeback there's bookstores are making a comeback there's bookstores are making a comeback there's a Resurgence and that's incredible have a Resurgence and that's incredible have a Resurgence and that's incredible have you seen an uptick at all from younger you seen an uptick at all from younger you seen an uptick at all from younger buyers or anything like that in your buyers or anything like that in your buyers or anything like that in your Market yeah I don't I don't have Market yeah I don't I don't have Market yeah I don't I don't have research on it or numbers on that but uh research on it or numbers on that but uh research on it or numbers on that but uh like I said we've seen our sales go up like I said we've seen our sales go up like I said we've seen our sales go up the each year our sales have continue to the each year our sales have continue to the each year our sales have continue to go up uh some departments are up more go up uh some departments are up more go up uh some departments are up more than others but uh like I say Bible than others but uh like I say Bible than others but uh like I say Bible sales we set a record last year in sales we set a record last year in sales we set a record last year in increase Bible so there's definitely increase Bible so there's definitely increase Bible so there's definitely seeing more people com in for Bibles and seeing more people com in for Bibles and seeing more people com in for Bibles and so um yeah we try to serve the the so um yeah we try to serve the the so um yeah we try to serve the the community so again we have we have community so again we have we have community so again we have we have grandparents we have parents we have grandparents we have parents we have grandparents we have parents we have young people um and so uh it's it's fun

young people um and so uh it's it's fun young people um and so uh it's it's fun to serve that family to serve that family to serve that family atmosphere well congratulations that was atmosphere well congratulations that was atmosphere well congratulations that was no easy task when you look at when you no easy task when you look at when you no easy task when you look at when you look at the landscape of book sellers look at the landscape of book sellers look at the landscape of book sellers over the last 30 years for you guys not over the last 30 years for you guys not over the last 30 years for you guys not only to have survived but grown and only to have survived but grown and only to have survived but grown and thrived is pretty cool now thrived is pretty cool now thrived is pretty cool now I would love to know you know because I would love to know you know because I would love to know you know because you have Hobby Lobby you have Mardell you have Hobby Lobby you have Mardell you have Hobby Lobby you have Mardell you have other things that your family you have other things that your family you have other things that your family you and your family are are are involved you and your family are are are involved you and your family are are are involved in what is a counterintuitive insight in what is a counterintuitive insight in what is a counterintuitive insight about faith-based Commerce that many about faith-based Commerce that many about faith-based Commerce that many people just miss or don't people just miss or don't people just miss or don't understand yeah faith-based Commerce I understand yeah faith-based Commerce I understand yeah faith-based Commerce I mean obviously Mardell is a faith-based mean obviously Mardell is a faith-based mean obviously Mardell is a faith-based Commerce it's easier to identify that Commerce it's easier to identify that Commerce it's easier to identify that because it sells Christian product hi because it sells Christian product hi because it sells Christian product hi Lobby you'd say well that's I mean Lobby you'd say well that's I mean Lobby you'd say well that's I mean nobody has their life transformed for nobody has their life transformed for nobody has their life transformed for eternity because they bought a silk eternity because they bought a silk eternity because they bought a silk flower or a canvas I suppose but we try flower or a canvas I suppose but we try flower or a canvas I suppose but we try to live that live out our faith in our to live that live out our faith in our to live that live out our faith in our business and so I think for us one of business and so I think for us one of business and so I think for us one of the things that would be the things that would be the things that would be counterintuitive is that we've said counterintuitive is that we've said counterintuitive is that we've said around here and it was a process to be around here and it was a process to be around here and it was a process to be honest is we're not owners now the honest is we're not owners now the honest is we're not owners now the government says we're owners of HBY government says we're owners of HBY government says we're owners of HBY Lobby and Mardell and we have to pay Lobby and Mardell and we have to pay Lobby and Mardell and we have to pay taxes like we're the owners that's the taxes like we're the owners that's the taxes like we're the owners that's the way it works it's a family business we way it works it's a family business we way it works it's a family business we have it's not a private Equity it's not have it's not a private Equity it's not have it's not a private Equity it's not a public company um it's owned by the a public company um it's owned by the a public company um it's owned by the family but we took the position that family but we took the position that family but we took the position that we're really stewards that we're not the we're really stewards that we're not the we're really stewards that we're not the owners of this so what do you do with owners of this so what do you do with owners of this so what do you do with the wealth is it do I get it the wealth is it do I get it the wealth is it do I get it automatically do my kids who haven't automatically do my kids who haven't automatically do my kids who haven't even worked in the business you know I even worked in the business you know I even worked in the business you know I mean they do now but let's go back a few

mean they do now but let's go back a few mean they do now but let's go back a few years my kids weren't even in business years my kids weren't even in business years my kids weren't even in business so my dad was grappling with that um so my dad was grappling with that um so my dad was grappling with that um what do I do uh I can buy insurance what do I do uh I can buy insurance what do I do uh I can buy insurance because if my mom and dad had died 10 or because if my mom and dad had died 10 or because if my mom and dad had died 10 or 15 years ago they would have had to pay 15 years ago they would have had to pay 15 years ago they would have had to pay huge taxes that we could have afforded huge taxes that we could have afforded huge taxes that we could have afforded we' had to sell the business to pay the we' had to sell the business to pay the we' had to sell the business to pay the taxes by Insurance then they say well taxes by Insurance then they say well taxes by Insurance then they say well you could do generation skipping you can you could do generation skipping you can you could do generation skipping you can give some of that stock to your give some of that stock to your give some of that stock to your grandkids because they have less value grandkids because they have less value grandkids because they have less value and so if you die then you won't have and so if you die then you won't have and so if you die then you won't have PID taxes on that you'll moved it down PID taxes on that you'll moved it down PID taxes on that you'll moved it down to your grandkids it's like well that to your grandkids it's like well that to your grandkids it's like well that feels like entitlement I don't even know feels like entitlement I don't even know feels like entitlement I don't even know which grandkids to give it to you know I which grandkids to give it to you know I which grandkids to give it to you know I don't know who's gonna marry I don't don't know who's gonna marry I don't don't know who's gonna marry I don't know who's gonna be in the business and know who's gonna be in the business and know who's gonna be in the business and if I give it to all of them I want to be if I give it to all of them I want to be if I give it to all of them I want to be fair fair I want to give it to all of fair fair I want to give it to all of fair fair I want to give it to all of them then someday I'll have people that them then someday I'll have people that them then someday I'll have people that say well I own part of that business but say well I own part of that business but say well I own part of that business but don't even work in the business so my don't even work in the business so my don't even work in the business so my dad really lost a lot of sleep over that dad really lost a lot of sleep over that dad really lost a lot of sleep over that to be honest with you as owner how do to be honest with you as owner how do to be honest with you as owner how do you handle this and then I had a friend you handle this and then I had a friend you handle this and then I had a friend of mine say well Mar you guys seem to be of mine say well Mar you guys seem to be of mine say well Mar you guys seem to be generous you know if you're generous generous you know if you're generous generous you know if you're generous there's other ways to do it and we're there's other ways to do it and we're there's other ways to do it and we're like no our tax guys don't tell us like no our tax guys don't tell us like no our tax guys don't tell us anything about that you know they only anything about that you know they only anything about that you know they only work about the tax issues and so we got work about the tax issues and so we got work about the tax issues and so we got with some people got with the national with some people got with the national with some people got with the national Christian Foundation other leaders and Christian Foundation other leaders and Christian Foundation other leaders and said what what can we do in the end said what what can we do in the end said what what can we do in the end there's other ways to do things what we there's other ways to do things what we there's other ways to do things what we did is we wound up putting 99% of the did is we wound up putting 99% of the did is we wound up putting 99% of the stock in a in a foundation the trust so stock in a in a foundation the trust so stock in a in a foundation the trust so somebody die if my parents die that's in somebody die if my parents die that's in somebody die if my parents die that's in the trust but if anybody ever sells the the trust but if anybody ever sells the the trust but if anybody ever sells the company that means they G to give a lot company that means they G to give a lot company that means they G to give a lot of money away because one we only own of money away because one we only own of money away because one we only own one% of the company now okay but we have one% of the company now okay but we have one% of the company now okay but we have 100% of the voting stock so all the 100% of the voting stock so all the 100% of the voting stock so all the voting stock is in the 1% so controls voting stock is in the 1% so controls voting stock is in the 1% so controls here but values here okay they're in two

here but values here okay they're in two here but values here okay they're in two different spots so if my kids someday different spots so if my kids someday different spots so if my kids someday decide to sell the company they won't decide to sell the company they won't decide to sell the company they won't have a big payday what they'll have is a have a big payday what they'll have is a have a big payday what they'll have is a lot of money to give away and if that's lot of money to give away and if that's lot of money to give away and if that's what Lord mov on them to do and that's what Lord mov on them to do and that's what Lord mov on them to do and that's what they do that's their choice that's what they do that's their choice that's what they do that's their choice that's the decision they'll have to make when the decision they'll have to make when the decision they'll have to make when when they're on the watch and so there a when they're on the watch and so there a when they're on the watch and so there a way of telling our family that we're way of telling our family that we're way of telling our family that we're stewards of this so my kids know there's stewards of this so my kids know there's stewards of this so my kids know there's no big payday coming no big money what no big payday coming no big money what no big payday coming no big money what we did is we used trees as an analogy we did is we used trees as an analogy we did is we used trees as an analogy because we started with one little bitty because we started with one little bitty because we started with one little bitty tree it was little a twig I told you tree it was little a twig I told you tree it was little a twig I told you $600 little twig it grew to a tree and $600 little twig it grew to a tree and $600 little twig it grew to a tree and we planted another tree another tree now we planted another tree another tree now we planted another tree another tree now there's a 1,37 Hobby Lobby trees we tell there's a 1,37 Hobby Lobby trees we tell there's a 1,37 Hobby Lobby trees we tell the kids none of those are yours not a the kids none of those are yours not a the kids none of those are yours not a single one of those are yours you don't single one of those are yours you don't single one of those are yours you don't have a single Branch there's not a have a single Branch there's not a have a single Branch there's not a single leaf on that tree the only thing single leaf on that tree the only thing single leaf on that tree the only thing that you have opportunity is the fruit that you have opportunity is the fruit that you have opportunity is the fruit if you go to work here you'll get paid if you go to work here you'll get paid if you go to work here you'll get paid just like anybody else and so if you're just like anybody else and so if you're just like anybody else and so if you're the president you get paid this salary the president you get paid this salary the president you get paid this salary if you if you're a buyer you get paid if you if you're a buyer you get paid if you if you're a buyer you get paid this salary so fruits available you have this salary so fruits available you have this salary so fruits available you have that that that opportunity um and so that's that's I opportunity um and so that's that's I opportunity um and so that's that's I think what a faith-based business is think what a faith-based business is think what a faith-based business is understanding that you don't own it and understanding that you don't own it and understanding that you don't own it and so we actually uh structured it that way so we actually uh structured it that way so we actually uh structured it that way so that then it's and my kids have known so that then it's and my kids have known so that then it's and my kids have known since they were teenagers you know since they were teenagers you know since they were teenagers you know there's no big payday coming and so uh there's no big payday coming and so uh there's no big payday coming and so uh so anyway do we bless our kids yeah I I so anyway do we bless our kids yeah I I so anyway do we bless our kids yeah I I tried to bless them when they're young tried to bless them when they're young tried to bless them when they're young because I figured out when I die they'll because I figured out when I die they'll because I figured out when I die they'll they won't need anything for me so when they won't need anything for me so when they won't need anything for me so when I die there's not a lot coming to my I die there's not a lot coming to my I die there's not a lot coming to my kids for me uh but I blessed them when kids for me uh but I blessed them when kids for me uh but I blessed them when they were younger and said hey here's a they were younger and said hey here's a they were younger and said hey here's a gift for you and uh they gave me a gift for you and uh they gave me a gift for you and uh they gave me a little bit of amount each year for 10 little bit of amount each year for 10 little bit of amount each year for 10 years and said hey that's enough years and said hey that's enough years and said hey that's enough probably for you to buy a starter home probably for you to buy a starter home probably for you to buy a starter home if you want to live debt-free but it's

if you want to live debt-free but it's if you want to live debt-free but it's your your choice you can do what you your your choice you can do what you your your choice you can do what you want you can buy a car with it you can want you can buy a car with it you can want you can buy a car with it you can spend it on more clothes but uh so spend it on more clothes but uh so spend it on more clothes but uh so anyway that's just the way we philosophy anyway that's just the way we philosophy anyway that's just the way we philosophy did that uh might be a little different did that uh might be a little different did that uh might be a little different than what people have been used to or than what people have been used to or than what people have been used to or definitely different than your tax definitely different than your tax definitely different than your tax lawyer will tell you because they're lawyer will tell you because they're lawyer will tell you because they're always trying to protect your asset always trying to protect your asset always trying to protect your asset which is fine that's their job what's which is fine that's their job what's which is fine that's their job what's they're PID to do but if you think about they're PID to do but if you think about they're PID to do but if you think about it different that you're a steward and it different that you're a steward and it different that you're a steward and not an owner it makes you go down so if not an owner it makes you go down so if not an owner it makes you go down so if you're an owner of your business we you're an owner of your business we you're an owner of your business we don't know how to help you if you're don't know how to help you if you're don't know how to help you if you're Steward we do have some ideas on how to Steward we do have some ideas on how to Steward we do have some ideas on how to help you that's such a different model I help you that's such a different model I help you that's such a different model I read your dad's book uh giving it all read your dad's book uh giving it all read your dad's book uh giving it all away and getting it back again this year away and getting it back again this year away and getting it back again this year I thought it was fascinating and he I thought it was fascinating and he I thought it was fascinating and he outlines a lot of that in the book outlines a lot of that in the book outlines a lot of that in the book yes I think one of the questions is what yes I think one of the questions is what yes I think one of the questions is what kind of family Dynamic does that create kind of family Dynamic does that create kind of family Dynamic does that create like have you got family members who are like have you got family members who are like have you got family members who are like well that's not fair like what how like well that's not fair like what how like well that's not fair like what how do you how do you Steward the family do you how do you Steward the family do you how do you Steward the family Dynamic associated with that yeah when Dynamic associated with that yeah when Dynamic associated with that yeah when we first had to make the decisions uh I we first had to make the decisions uh I we first had to make the decisions uh I we had to We The Generation skim Tac was we had to We The Generation skim Tac was we had to We The Generation skim Tac was kind of get so we had to have our kind of get so we had to have our kind of get so we had to have our grandkids sign off on that that hey they grandkids sign off on that that hey they grandkids sign off on that that hey they B into this now they were younger now B into this now they were younger now B into this now they were younger now they're they're in their 30s right but they're they're in their 30s right but they're they're in their 30s right but then they were teenagers this 20 years then they were teenagers this 20 years then they were teenagers this 20 years ago and so they signed off probably not ago and so they signed off probably not ago and so they signed off probably not understanding to the the total degree understanding to the the total degree understanding to the the total degree but again because they were so young and but again because they were so young and but again because they were so young and we kind of taught and they just saw we kind of taught and they just saw we kind of taught and they just saw that's the way we lived they see the that's the way we lived they see the that's the way we lived they see the grandfather M you know we none of us grandfather M you know we none of us grandfather M you know we none of us have gotten a salary increase probably have gotten a salary increase probably have gotten a salary increase probably 15 or 20 years right it's just we just 15 or 20 years right it's just we just 15 or 20 years right it's just we just we have enough right we don't need anym we have enough right we don't need anym we have enough right we don't need anym and so we want to give it away and so

and so we want to give it away and so and so we want to give it away and so they've just seen the joy that we get they've just seen the joy that we get they've just seen the joy that we get giving and be a part of ministry and giving and be a part of ministry and giving and be a part of ministry and building the Kingdom so the other lesson building the Kingdom so the other lesson building the Kingdom so the other lesson you hear a lot around this family is you hear a lot around this family is you hear a lot around this family is don't think temporal think Eternal right don't think temporal think Eternal right don't think temporal think Eternal right you're only here you know it rain alorn you're only here you know it rain alorn you're only here you know it rain alorn talks about the dot your life is a DOT talks about the dot your life is a DOT talks about the dot your life is a DOT then draw the line with an arrow that's then draw the line with an arrow that's then draw the line with an arrow that's what you this dot impacts the arrow so what you this dot impacts the arrow so what you this dot impacts the arrow so how you live now affects all of eternity how you live now affects all of eternity how you live now affects all of eternity so don't think about temporal things so don't think about temporal things so don't think about temporal things think about eternity so do all of my think about eternity so do all of my think about eternity so do all of my kids totally understand that bite into kids totally understand that bite into kids totally understand that bite into that every single day of course not you that every single day of course not you that every single day of course not you know there's days are like man I sure know there's days are like man I sure know there's days are like man I sure wish I could have had access to that wish I could have had access to that wish I could have had access to that because I have a friend whose parents because I have a friend whose parents because I have a friend whose parents are really you know wealthy and they got are really you know wealthy and they got are really you know wealthy and they got they got lots of money along the way as they got lots of money along the way as they got lots of money along the way as a gen 3 member just because they were a a gen 3 member just because they were a a gen 3 member just because they were a gen 3 member generation three that would gen 3 member generation three that would gen 3 member generation three that would be my kids my parents are gen one the be my kids my parents are gen one the be my kids my parents are gen one the language and stuff but yeah but there's language and stuff but yeah but there's language and stuff but yeah but there's I've always had them come back now and I've always had them come back now and I've always had them come back now and say you know what I kind of understand say you know what I kind of understand say you know what I kind of understand it now you know because it's kind of it now you know because it's kind of it now you know because it's kind of like I did in high school I learned that like I did in high school I learned that like I did in high school I learned that lesson my dad didn't buy me a car you lesson my dad didn't buy me a car you lesson my dad didn't buy me a car you know um and I I thought that wasn't know um and I I thought that wasn't know um and I I thought that wasn't right you know but I learned later that right you know but I learned later that right you know but I learned later that I I spent a lot of money I worked a lot I I spent a lot of money I worked a lot I I spent a lot of money I worked a lot of overtime hours to get that car I took of overtime hours to get that car I took of overtime hours to get that car I took really good care of the tires right when really good care of the tires right when really good care of the tires right when I saw a friend who silled his tires out I saw a friend who silled his tires out I saw a friend who silled his tires out I said he didn't pay for that car and I said he didn't pay for that car and I said he didn't pay for that car and sure enough he didn't right it just it's sure enough he didn't right it just it's sure enough he didn't right it just it's just natural so if you can learn that just natural so if you can learn that just natural so if you can learn that lesson when you're 16 you don't have to lesson when you're 16 you don't have to lesson when you're 16 you don't have to learn it when you're 36 you know and so learn it when you're 36 you know and so learn it when you're 36 you know and so I think my kids are starting to I think my kids are starting to I think my kids are starting to understand because now they're having understand because now they're having understand because now they're having kids I have grand I have 13 grandkids kids I have grand I have 13 grandkids kids I have grand I have 13 grandkids now so they understand the value of so now so they understand the value of so now so they understand the value of so when you see it lived out it kind of I

when you see it lived out it kind of I when you see it lived out it kind of I think it helps make that would if you think it helps make that would if you think it helps make that would if you interviewed all of them would you get interviewed all of them would you get interviewed all of them would you get some grumbles yeah you might but uh some grumbles yeah you might but uh some grumbles yeah you might but uh they're not large ones are not loud they're not large ones are not loud they're not large ones are not loud there's nobody protesting in the family there's nobody protesting in the family there's nobody protesting in the family uh they've understood it they've lived uh they've understood it they've lived uh they've understood it they've lived with it and I think now that their with it and I think now that their with it and I think now that their parent parents that even understand it parent parents that even understand it parent parents that even understand it more as we all typically do as we grow more as we all typically do as we grow more as we all typically do as we grow up we kind of understand why did my up we kind of understand why did my up we kind of understand why did my parents just give me a bunch of things parents just give me a bunch of things parents just give me a bunch of things and now and so oh thank you Lord that my and now and so oh thank you Lord that my and now and so oh thank you Lord that my parents wanted me to have a work ethic parents wanted me to have a work ethic parents wanted me to have a work ethic because a work ethic you treat things because a work ethic you treat things because a work ethic you treat things differently yeah what did your dad do to differently yeah what did your dad do to differently yeah what did your dad do to instill that work ethic in you when you instill that work ethic in you when you instill that work ethic in you when you were young and I realize you know the were young and I realize you know the were young and I realize you know the first 10 15 years of Hobby Lobby if I've first 10 15 years of Hobby Lobby if I've first 10 15 years of Hobby Lobby if I've got my timeline right were not got my timeline right were not got my timeline right were not particularly remarkable there were ups particularly remarkable there were ups particularly remarkable there were ups and downs you were not sitting on and downs you were not sitting on and downs you were not sitting on Millions let alone billions of dollars Millions let alone billions of dollars Millions let alone billions of dollars that you could give away uh it was a that you could give away uh it was a that you could give away uh it was a typical business right successful one typical business right successful one typical business right successful one but it was a bit of a roller coaster uh but it was a bit of a roller coaster uh but it was a bit of a roller coaster uh and it's been in the last what 20 years and it's been in the last what 20 years and it's been in the last what 20 years or so that the dividends have have have or so that the dividends have have have or so that the dividends have have have paid again and again and again and again paid again and again and again and again paid again and again and again and again did I get that timeline right about yeah did I get that timeline right about yeah did I get that timeline right about yeah those are close those are close close those are close those are close close those are close those are close close yeah but how how did he teach you that yeah but how how did he teach you that yeah but how how did he teach you that when you were younger yeah I I guess when you were younger yeah I I guess when you were younger yeah I I guess again I saw in the in our home my dad again I saw in the in our home my dad again I saw in the in our home my dad would to get home from from work and he would to get home from from work and he would to get home from from work and he would be gluing frames you know so I saw would be gluing frames you know so I saw would be gluing frames you know so I saw hard work ethic I I went to baseball hard work ethic I I went to baseball hard work ethic I I went to baseball cards now my friend of the street he had cards now my friend of the street he had cards now my friend of the street he had baseball cards but his dad bought his baseball cards but his dad bought his baseball cards but his dad bought his cards my dad didn't and again I didn't cards my dad didn't and again I didn't cards my dad didn't and again I didn't like that but I'm six and seven and like that but I'm six and seven and like that but I'm six and seven and eight years old right and so he says eight years old right and so he says eight years old right and so he says here if you glue these frames then you here if you glue these frames then you here if you glue these frames then you can have money for your baseball cards can have money for your baseball cards can have money for your baseball cards and so um it was just kind of instill

and so um it was just kind of instill and so um it was just kind of instill that when you worked you got to see the that when you worked you got to see the that when you worked you got to see the fruit of that work right and so you got fruit of that work right and so you got fruit of that work right and so you got to buy things and so I guess it just to buy things and so I guess it just to buy things and so I guess it just again for in our case again I didn't my again for in our case again I didn't my again for in our case again I didn't my kids didn't go to work when they were kids didn't go to work when they were kids didn't go to work when they were nine I didn't do quite the same way as I nine I didn't do quite the same way as I nine I didn't do quite the same way as I as I did but uh but they started working as I did but uh but they started working as I did but uh but they started working when they were 16 or 18 and those the when they were 16 or 18 and those the when they were 16 or 18 and those the ages and they had to we we we paid for ages and they had to we we we paid for ages and they had to we we we paid for half their car we paid for half their half their car we paid for half their half their car we paid for half their college we did those kind of things so college we did those kind of things so college we did those kind of things so they still had that work ethic that we they still had that work ethic that we they still had that work ethic that we came along but again it just it just came along but again it just it just came along but again it just it just felt natural I guess it almost like I felt natural I guess it almost like I felt natural I guess it almost like I just assumed everybody's doing that um just assumed everybody's doing that um just assumed everybody's doing that um because we just worked in our home and because we just worked in our home and because we just worked in our home and then we just enjoyed work and it did then we just enjoyed work and it did then we just enjoyed work and it did grow I mean uh we had ups and downs but grow I mean uh we had ups and downs but grow I mean uh we had ups and downs but you had another store oh then you add you had another store oh then you add you had another store oh then you add another store and so it just felt like another store and so it just felt like another store and so it just felt like it was something that energy to it had it was something that energy to it had it was something that energy to it had life to it again early on we just you life to it again early on we just you life to it again early on we just you know tithed the prophets and my mom mom know tithed the prophets and my mom mom know tithed the prophets and my mom mom and dad did that was until 1997 that we and dad did that was until 1997 that we and dad did that was until 1997 that we first gave collectively so that was from first gave collectively so that was from first gave collectively so that was from 197 that was 27 years after 27 years of 197 that was 27 years after 27 years of 197 that was 27 years after 27 years of building the business then we had enough building the business then we had enough building the business then we had enough money we said well let's my Mom and Dad money we said well let's my Mom and Dad money we said well let's my Mom and Dad could have given you know because we could have given you know because we could have given you know because we always tired their profits they could always tired their profits they could always tired their profits they could have said well we'll choose where to go have said well we'll choose where to go have said well we'll choose where to go but they said no we've all worked in but they said no we've all worked in but they said no we've all worked in this business so we all get one vote so this business so we all get one vote so this business so we all get one vote so there's seven of us I have a there's seven of us I have a there's seven of us I have a brother-in-law I have a cousin my brother-in-law I have a cousin my brother-in-law I have a cousin my parents my brother sister there's seven parents my brother sister there's seven parents my brother sister there's seven that have worked together for nearly 50 that have worked together for nearly 50 that have worked together for nearly 50 years most of us for all 50 some of them years most of us for all 50 some of them years most of us for all 50 some of them got married less than that and so the got married less than that and so the got married less than that and so the seven of us have met once a month since seven of us have met once a month since seven of us have met once a month since 1997 every month for 26 27 years and we 1997 every month for 26 27 years and we 1997 every month for 26 27 years and we vote on what we give to every month and vote on what we give to every month and vote on what we give to every month and so and then in gen three my kids they so and then in gen three my kids they so and then in gen three my kids they get to come to that meeting now they get to come to that meeting now they get to come to that meeting now they don't vote on what we give to uh but

don't vote on what we give to uh but don't vote on what we give to uh but what we did was we didn't want to give what we did was we didn't want to give what we did was we didn't want to give money to each one of them to give away money to each one of them to give away money to each one of them to give away but we give them a lump sum so they get but we give them a lump sum so they get but we give them a lump sum so they get a lump sum so gen three my kids their a lump sum so gen three my kids their a lump sum so gen three my kids their spouses my brothers kids and their SP spouses my brothers kids and their SP spouses my brothers kids and their SP houses my sister has no children they houses my sister has no children they houses my sister has no children they come together and they have a amount to come together and they have a amount to come together and they have a amount to give together because um it's not always give together because um it's not always give together because um it's not always easy to give together right because I easy to give together right because I easy to give together right because I like stuff and you like something like stuff and you like something like stuff and you like something different but we have to collectively different but we have to collectively different but we have to collectively say well this is what we all decided to say well this is what we all decided to say well this is what we all decided to give to and so they get to do that so give to and so they get to do that so give to and so they get to do that so they get to have that Joy of generosity they get to have that Joy of generosity they get to have that Joy of generosity and so that's just part of the DNA and so that's just part of the DNA and so that's just part of the DNA that's part of the joy of what we get that's part of the joy of what we get that's part of the joy of what we get it's not going and getting more of it's not going and getting more of it's not going and getting more of course my kids want to have buy a nicer course my kids want to have buy a nicer course my kids want to have buy a nicer home they want to have a second car for home they want to have a second car for home they want to have a second car for their family so they're they're getting their family so they're they're getting their family so they're they're getting their career they're building up so uh their career they're building up so uh their career they're building up so uh anyway they also get to see the joy and anyway they also get to see the joy and anyway they also get to see the joy and uh most all of them if not all of them uh most all of them if not all of them uh most all of them if not all of them have gone all the kids and Grand all all have gone all the kids and Grand all all have gone all the kids and Grand all all the grandkids my parents grandkids have the grandkids my parents grandkids have the grandkids my parents grandkids have gone on a mission trip my kids are now gone on a mission trip my kids are now gone on a mission trip my kids are now grandkids are just now starting to get grandkids are just now starting to get grandkids are just now starting to get the age I got to take my first Grand the age I got to take my first Grand the age I got to take my first Grand grandson on a mission trip to uh grandson on a mission trip to uh grandson on a mission trip to uh Madagascar to to a Bible dedication and Madagascar to to a Bible dedication and Madagascar to to a Bible dedication and so he's 14 and once they turn 13 I'm so he's 14 and once they turn 13 I'm so he's 14 and once they turn 13 I'm going to take all 13 of them to a h a going to take all 13 of them to a h a going to take all 13 of them to a h a Bible dedication because my life was Bible dedication because my life was Bible dedication because my life was transformed in a Bible dedication and I transformed in a Bible dedication and I transformed in a Bible dedication and I want them to go on a missions trip and want them to go on a missions trip and want them to go on a missions trip and see what it's like like to get God's see what it's like like to get God's see what it's like like to get God's word in your heart language for the word in your heart language for the word in your heart language for the first time in your heart first time in your heart first time in your heart language uh what are your criteria as a language uh what are your criteria as a language uh what are your criteria as a family for or even your personal family for or even your personal family for or even your personal criteria for what is a worthy cause and criteria for what is a worthy cause and criteria for what is a worthy cause and not the vast majority of people who not the vast majority of people who not the vast majority of people who listen to the show got tens of thousands listen to the show got tens of thousands listen to the show got tens of thousands of leaders who are that charity who are

of leaders who are that charity who are of leaders who are that charity who are always you know whether they're a church always you know whether they're a church always you know whether they're a church or a nonprofit or that kind of thing or a nonprofit or that kind of thing or a nonprofit or that kind of thing trying to figure out how to raise more trying to figure out how to raise more trying to figure out how to raise more money for Mission so when the Green money for Mission so when the Green money for Mission so when the Green family looks at what a wor what is a family looks at what a wor what is a family looks at what a wor what is a worthy cause versus I don't think we're worthy cause versus I don't think we're worthy cause versus I don't think we're going to give there what are some of the going to give there what are some of the going to give there what are some of the the separating characteristics defining the separating characteristics defining the separating characteristics defining characteristics yeah good question each characteristics yeah good question each characteristics yeah good question each month when we meet I have a cooworker month when we meet I have a cooworker month when we meet I have a cooworker who's been with for 15 years his name is who's been with for 15 years his name is who's been with for 15 years his name is ASF so he presents the request because ASF so he presents the request because ASF so he presents the request because I'm part of the missionary investment I'm part of the missionary investment I'm part of the missionary investment team so after I I left Mell about 10 team so after I I left Mell about 10 team so after I I left Mell about 10 years ago launched it kept people going years ago launched it kept people going years ago launched it kept people going and so now I'm working all the giving and so now I'm working all the giving and so now I'm working all the giving that we do so I can be Freer to do some that we do so I can be Freer to do some that we do so I can be Freer to do some other things in the future um so uh up other things in the future um so uh up other things in the future um so uh up front we have a jar of marbles and in front we have a jar of marbles and in front we have a jar of marbles and in the jar of marbles the there's a bunch the jar of marbles the there's a bunch the jar of marbles the there's a bunch of white ones and there's a few green of white ones and there's a few green of white ones and there's a few green ones so we tell the family is we're ones so we tell the family is we're ones so we tell the family is we're going to look work really hard to bring going to look work really hard to bring going to look work really hard to bring you excellent Ministries so there are you excellent Ministries so there are you excellent Ministries so there are things we're looking for in excellent things we're looking for in excellent things we're looking for in excellent Ministries but you can't give to every Ministries but you can't give to every Ministries but you can't give to every every excellent Ministry you got to every excellent Ministry you got to every excellent Ministry you got to figure out which are the green ones so figure out which are the green ones so figure out which are the green ones so there's some phenomenal Ministries that there's some phenomenal Ministries that there's some phenomenal Ministries that we don't give to we know them we've seen we don't give to we know them we've seen we don't give to we know them we've seen them we've heard from them but it's just them we've heard from them but it's just them we've heard from them but it's just not our calling so what is our calling not our calling so what is our calling not our calling so what is our calling because even though we give half our because even though we give half our because even though we give half our profits away now there's still way more profits away now there's still way more profits away now there's still way more to be given to than what we can give of to be given to than what we can give of to be given to than what we can give of course and so what are those green ones course and so what are those green ones course and so what are those green ones so one of our core values is we give to so one of our core values is we give to so one of our core values is we give to few deeper than to Lots in small amounts few deeper than to Lots in small amounts few deeper than to Lots in small amounts and again these are not Rights and and again these are not Rights and and again these are not Rights and Wrongs carry as you can understand but Wrongs carry as you can understand but Wrongs carry as you can understand but it's just what we've done because we're it's just what we've done because we're it's just what we've done because we're we're a business we're an ongoing

we're a business we're an ongoing we're a business we're an ongoing business we're not a foundation so so we business we're not a foundation so so we business we're not a foundation so so we want to build a relationship with these want to build a relationship with these want to build a relationship with these people so typically most of the people so typically most of the people so typically most of the Ministries that we've ever found we Ministries that we've ever found we Ministries that we've ever found we found them in other words we were in the found them in other words we were in the found them in other words we were in the we were out in the marketplace out doing we were out in the marketplace out doing we were out in the marketplace out doing something and found oh wow here's something and found oh wow here's something and found oh wow here's somebody let's talk to them and so somebody let's talk to them and so somebody let's talk to them and so usually takes about two or three years usually takes about two or three years usually takes about two or three years of relationship building typically we'll of relationship building typically we'll of relationship building typically we'll give them our time and talent first give them our time and talent first give them our time and talent first we'll come alongside them and give time we'll come alongside them and give time we'll come alongside them and give time and talent I'll give an example here our and talent I'll give an example here our and talent I'll give an example here our in our city I got a call from Rob in our city I got a call from Rob in our city I got a call from Rob Hoskins a good dear friend of ours which Hoskins a good dear friend of ours which Hoskins a good dear friend of ours which is the first Minister we ever gave to is the first Minister we ever gave to is the first Minister we ever gave to one hope in 1997 we gave to and he one hope in 1997 we gave to and he one hope in 1997 we gave to and he called said Mark you got to meet Bobby called said Mark you got to meet Bobby called said Mark you got to meet Bobby grinwald I said okay and he says I said grinwald I said okay and he says I said grinwald I said okay and he says I said where does he live he said we lives in where does he live he said we lives in where does he live he said we lives in your city I said 'why are you calling me your city I said 'why are you calling me your city I said 'why are you calling me about my neighbors I don't like this you about my neighbors I don't like this you about my neighbors I don't like this you mean this is my neighbor and you're mean this is my neighbor and you're mean this is my neighbor and you're calling me about him so okay I'll meet calling me about him so okay I'll meet calling me about him so okay I'll meet Bobby first time I met Bobby I fell in Bobby first time I met Bobby I fell in Bobby first time I met Bobby I fell in love with him and I just his passion his love with him and I just his passion his love with him and I just his passion his heart and he was trying to start this heart and he was trying to start this heart and he was trying to start this thing called U verion he's gonna put the thing called U verion he's gonna put the thing called U verion he's gonna put the Bible on the computer and I said okay I Bible on the computer and I said okay I Bible on the computer and I said okay I guess you know I don't know this might guess you know I don't know this might guess you know I don't know this might hurt myself I just lost all my C to hurt myself I just lost all my C to hurt myself I just lost all my C to musicbe I'm lose all my C to the Bible musicbe I'm lose all my C to the Bible musicbe I'm lose all my C to the Bible on on the deal you're a competitor yeah on on the deal you're a competitor yeah on on the deal you're a competitor yeah right yeah you might be a competitor but right yeah you might be a competitor but right yeah you might be a competitor but man it sounds good and he said but you man it sounds good and he said but you man it sounds good and he said but you know what Mark the Bible's an elal know what Mark the Bible's an elal know what Mark the Bible's an elal property and nobody will give me the property and nobody will give me the property and nobody will give me the rights to their Bible I can get King rights to their Bible I can get King rights to their Bible I can get King James but I can't get because he was 32 James but I can't get because he was 32 James but I can't get because he was 32 years old nobody knew him he's calling years old nobody knew him he's calling years old nobody knew him he's calling you know the NIV the NLT ESV all these you know the NIV the NLT ESV all these you know the NIV the NLT ESV all these different translations they're saying different translations they're saying different translations they're saying who are you what you want to give it who are you what you want to give it who are you what you want to give it away for what for free well how about away for what for free well how about away for what for free well how about you sell it for 50 99 Cents how about you sell it for 50 99 Cents how about you sell it for 50 99 Cents how about you put ads on it Bobby just was no I

you put ads on it Bobby just was no I you put ads on it Bobby just was no I don't want to kids have a hard time don't want to kids have a hard time don't want to kids have a hard time paying 99 Cents for a song they adore paying 99 Cents for a song they adore paying 99 Cents for a song they adore they're not going to pay 99 cent for a they're not going to pay 99 cent for a they're not going to pay 99 cent for a book they understand I want to get it to book they understand I want to get it to book they understand I want to get it to them for free so anyway I just gave time them for free so anyway I just gave time them for free so anyway I just gave time and tell took us a year year and a half and tell took us a year year and a half and tell took us a year year and a half to convince one or two them to do it and to convince one or two them to do it and to convince one or two them to do it and then the next one and the next one but then the next one and the next one but then the next one and the next one but then it didn't do well and so he was then it didn't do well and so he was then it didn't do well and so he was about to shut it down people weren't about to shut it down people weren't about to shut it down people weren't doing the computer he said Mark we're doing the computer he said Mark we're doing the computer he said Mark we're going to try to do it at that time we going to try to do it at that time we going to try to do it at that time we had blackberries and I said you're gonna had blackberries and I said you're gonna had blackberries and I said you're gonna try to get people to read the Bible on a try to get people to read the Bible on a try to get people to read the Bible on a Blackberry you gotta be kidding me you Blackberry you gotta be kidding me you Blackberry you gotta be kidding me you can't get them to read it on his can't get them to read it on his can't get them to read it on his computer screen how are you gonna get computer screen how are you gonna get computer screen how are you gonna get him to read three lines on a little him to read three lines on a little him to read three lines on a little Blackberry right that ain't that Blackberry right that ain't that Blackberry right that ain't that whatever but we already worked hard we whatever but we already worked hard we whatever but we already worked hard we got all these rights now now we got we got all these rights now now we got we got all these rights now now we got we the hard part we got all these rights the hard part we got all these rights the hard part we got all these rights and so he says and they said oh Apple's and so he says and they said oh Apple's and so he says and they said oh Apple's getting ready to come out with this uh getting ready to come out with this uh getting ready to come out with this uh the I the the U the App Store and so he the I the the U the App Store and so he the I the the U the App Store and so he said uh we're gonna try to put it on the said uh we're gonna try to put it on the said uh we're gonna try to put it on the App Store I said okay whatever I mean I App Store I said okay whatever I mean I App Store I said okay whatever I mean I don't know what app store is and my don't know what app store is and my don't know what app store is and my black I love my Blackberry so whatever black I love my Blackberry so whatever black I love my Blackberry so whatever you're going to do over there in the you're going to do over there in the you're going to do over there in the Apple go do that you know and so anyway Apple go do that you know and so anyway Apple go do that you know and so anyway one of the first 200 free apps was the one of the first 200 free apps was the one of the first 200 free apps was the uh the uh Bible app and he set a goal to uh the uh Bible app and he set a goal to uh the uh Bible app and he set a goal to download 60,000 that first half year download 60,000 that first half year download 60,000 that first half year because came out June to July he said we because came out June to July he said we because came out June to July he said we hope to download 6 because they only had hope to download 6 because they only had hope to download 6 because they only had like 30,000 people ever go on the like 30,000 people ever go on the like 30,000 people ever go on the computer so he said about the 60,000 and computer so he said about the 60,000 and computer so he said about the 60,000 and so um he called me on Monday I think the so um he called me on Monday I think the so um he called me on Monday I think the iPhone came out on Thursday or Friday he iPhone came out on Thursday or Friday he iPhone came out on Thursday or Friday he said Mark we have already downloaded said Mark we have already downloaded said Mark we have already downloaded 80,000 I'm going oh my gosh and I'm I'm 80,000 I'm going oh my gosh and I'm I'm 80,000 I'm going oh my gosh and I'm I'm a futurist I said oh no he's gonna want a futurist I said oh no he's gonna want a futurist I said oh no he's gonna want Spanish he's gonna want Portuguese he's Spanish he's gonna want Portuguese he's Spanish he's gonna want Portuguese he's gonna want all which fortunately he gonna want all which fortunately he gonna want all which fortunately he didn't want him the next day because he

didn't want him the next day because he didn't want him the next day because he had to go back and figure out how to do had to go back and figure out how to do had to go back and figure out how to do the English right and so then I went to the English right and so then I went to the English right and so then I went to the said guys this car is going to run the said guys this car is going to run the said guys this car is going to run let's go give Bobby some money get him let's go give Bobby some money get him let's go give Bobby some money get him started like what I call a Tarmac gift started like what I call a Tarmac gift started like what I call a Tarmac gift let's just give him all that he needs let's just give him all that he needs let's just give him all that he needs right now right which wasn't a huge right now right which wasn't a huge right now right which wasn't a huge dollar amount and then he can raise dollar amount and then he can raise dollar amount and then he can raise money later so don't Bobby don't worry money later so don't Bobby don't worry money later so don't Bobby don't worry about raising money because that that's about raising money because that that's about raising money because that that's hard work you need to build that let's hard work you need to build that let's hard work you need to build that let's let's think about that but right now go let's think about that but right now go let's think about that but right now go get your technology up to speed and so get your technology up to speed and so get your technology up to speed and so uh so that was a way somebody that we uh so that was a way somebody that we uh so that was a way somebody that we saw in the marketplace was went saw in the marketplace was went saw in the marketplace was went alongside them gave them time and talent alongside them gave them time and talent alongside them gave them time and talent for a couple three years before we ever for a couple three years before we ever for a couple three years before we ever gave them any money and now they're one gave them any money and now they're one gave them any money and now they're one of our eight core Ministries uh eight of our eight core Ministries uh eight of our eight core Ministries uh eight Ministries that we've given to over 27 Ministries that we've given to over 27 Ministries that we've given to over 27 years have gotten 80% of the funding so years have gotten 80% of the funding so years have gotten 80% of the funding so w wow that's few and deep so I attend w wow that's few and deep so I attend w wow that's few and deep so I attend board meetings I'm not a board member board meetings I'm not a board member board meetings I'm not a board member but I just ask can I be an OBS an but I just ask can I be an OBS an but I just ask can I be an OBS an observer because I want to go in and see observer because I want to go in and see observer because I want to go in and see are they talking about succession plan are they talking about succession plan are they talking about succession plan uh to me it's not all about leadership uh to me it's not all about leadership uh to me it's not all about leadership it's all about leadership and governance it's all about leadership and governance it's all about leadership and governance with wisdom in the middle so leadership with wisdom in the middle so leadership with wisdom in the middle so leadership without governance is doesn't end well without governance is doesn't end well without governance is doesn't end well lots of cases governance overpowering lots of cases governance overpowering lots of cases governance overpowering leadership does it you have to have leadership does it you have to have leadership does it you have to have governance and Leadership so we spend governance and Leadership so we spend governance and Leadership so we spend time with these Ministries we know them time with these Ministries we know them time with these Ministries we know them and then we're able to connect them to and then we're able to connect them to and then we're able to connect them to other Ministries so there's been several other Ministries so there's been several other Ministries so there's been several Ministries we connected U verion to or Ministries we connected U verion to or Ministries we connected U verion to or vice versa you know something comes out vice versa you know something comes out vice versa you know something comes out and we say hey let's get that on U and we say hey let's get that on U and we say hey let's get that on U version we talk to U verion so it's been version we talk to U verion so it's been version we talk to U verion so it's been fun to be a connector of that way so uh fun to be a connector of that way so uh fun to be a connector of that way so uh but in those Ministries what am I but in those Ministries what am I but in those Ministries what am I looking for you know I look for three looking for you know I look for three looking for you know I look for three character traits and they all come for character traits and they all come for character traits and they all come for from first John 2 and6 and I talked from first John 2 and6 and I talked from first John 2 and6 and I talked about Randy alorn earlier and so Randy

about Randy alorn earlier and so Randy about Randy alorn earlier and so Randy alorn helped me on this one he got me alorn helped me on this one he got me alorn helped me on this one he got me halfway there halfway there halfway there John 1 John 2:16 says Satan only has John 1 John 2:16 says Satan only has John 1 John 2:16 says Satan only has three main lies because Satan's got a three main lies because Satan's got a three main lies because Satan's got a heart language he lies that's just what heart language he lies that's just what heart language he lies that's just what he he he does lust of the flesh the lust of the does lust of the flesh the lust of the does lust of the flesh the lust of the eyes and pride of life so in Randy's eyes and pride of life so in Randy's eyes and pride of life so in Randy's book he talks about the lust of the eyes book he talks about the lust of the eyes book he talks about the lust of the eyes Satan is Tak created nothing God and Satan is Tak created nothing God and Satan is Tak created nothing God and Satan are not two equals co-equals right Satan are not two equals co-equals right Satan are not two equals co-equals right God created everything so Satan can only God created everything so Satan can only God created everything so Satan can only take something God created so that's take something God created so that's take something God created so that's possessions there's nothing wrong with possessions there's nothing wrong with possessions there's nothing wrong with your house Carrie there's nothing wrong your house Carrie there's nothing wrong your house Carrie there's nothing wrong with your car there's nothing until it with your car there's nothing until it with your car there's nothing until it kind of owns you and you think man if I kind of owns you and you think man if I kind of owns you and you think man if I just get that house I'll be happier you just get that house I'll be happier you just get that house I'll be happier you know so Satan lies to you that's the LIE know so Satan lies to you that's the LIE know so Satan lies to you that's the LIE he says more possessions will make you he says more possessions will make you he says more possessions will make you happy so what where but but Randy happy so what where but but Randy happy so what where but but Randy stopped there and think okay what's the stopped there and think okay what's the stopped there and think okay what's the antidote though I gotta I gotta I gotta antidote though I gotta I gotta I gotta antidote though I gotta I gotta I gotta solve s's line I thought what's solve s's line I thought what's solve s's line I thought what's generosity you show me somebody who's generosity you show me somebody who's generosity you show me somebody who's generous and you don't have to worry generous and you don't have to worry generous and you don't have to worry about it they're they're always giving about it they're they're always giving about it they're they're always giving stuff away that was my grandmother's stuff away that was my grandmother's stuff away that was my grandmother's problem she only had two dresses she problem she only had two dresses she problem she only had two dresses she gave one away right you don't have to gave one away right you don't have to gave one away right you don't have to worry about there is no Satan has no worry about there is no Satan has no worry about there is no Satan has no that lie is not going to work he's got that lie is not going to work he's got that lie is not going to work he's got to go to a different lie well the next to go to a different lie well the next to go to a different lie well the next lie is the the pride of life and uh lie is the the pride of life and uh lie is the the pride of life and uh that's position and power and there's that's position and power and there's that's position and power and there's nothing wrong with Physicians we have nothing wrong with Physicians we have nothing wrong with Physicians we have CEOs we have Coos we got we got power CEOs we have Coos we got we got power CEOs we have Coos we got we got power there's nothing wrong with that until there's nothing wrong with that until there's nothing wrong with that until pride of life hits so Satan lies to us pride of life hits so Satan lies to us pride of life hits so Satan lies to us to say oh you're supposed to use that to to say oh you're supposed to use that to to say oh you're supposed to use that to Serve Yourself power and position now Serve Yourself power and position now Serve Yourself power and position now you get you get you get served and so what is the antidote to served and so what is the antidote to served and so what is the antidote to that I said well it would be humility that I said well it would be humility that I said well it would be humility what I'm looking for is people have what I'm looking for is people have what I'm looking for is people have humility and the third one is the lust humility and the third one is the lust humility and the third one is the lust of the flesh God gave us Pleasures he

of the flesh God gave us Pleasures he of the flesh God gave us Pleasures he gave us our sexuality he gave us the the gave us our sexuality he gave us the the gave us our sexuality he gave us the the pleasures of life all came from God pleasures of life all came from God pleasures of life all came from God again Satan lies and he takes us to again Satan lies and he takes us to again Satan lies and he takes us to places that God doesn't give us for places that God doesn't give us for places that God doesn't give us for those pleasures and so the third one those pleasures and so the third one those pleasures and so the third one would be uh integrity and so I say you would be uh integrity and so I say you would be uh integrity and so I say you go to school to learn go to school to learn go to school to learn ABCs I say I looking for people with jh ABCs I say I looking for people with jh ABCs I say I looking for people with jh and I so if you go back and look at my and I so if you go back and look at my and I so if you go back and look at my close friends that I have around me close friends that I have around me close friends that I have around me there'll be three things that they have there'll be three things that they have there'll be three things that they have they'll be they're generous people they they'll be they're generous people they they'll be they're generous people they have humility and they have integrity have humility and they have integrity have humility and they have integrity now I've had some fins along the way now I've had some fins along the way now I've had some fins along the way I've lost because of those some of those I've lost because of those some of those I've lost because of those some of those things are whatever but that's who I things are whatever but that's who I things are whatever but that's who I hang with that's who I can run with and hang with that's who I can run with and hang with that's who I can run with and go a long ways so I would say eight all go a long ways so I would say eight all go a long ways so I would say eight all eight of these Ministries currently are eight of these Ministries currently are eight of these Ministries currently are had in the past have exemplified had in the past have exemplified had in the past have exemplified generosity because sometimes ministri generosity because sometimes ministri generosity because sometimes ministri think well they they receive but that I think well they they receive but that I think well they they receive but that I need them to be generous too just like need them to be generous too just like need them to be generous too just like Rob host was generous he told me about Rob host was generous he told me about Rob host was generous he told me about another Ministry usually they don't do another Ministry usually they don't do another Ministry usually they don't do that most Ministries don't tell donors that most Ministries don't tell donors that most Ministries don't tell donors about other Ministries but Rob about other Ministries but Rob about other Ministries but Rob understood Kingdom he was a kingdom understood Kingdom he was a kingdom understood Kingdom he was a kingdom thinker so he knew that I had something thinker so he knew that I had something thinker so he knew that I had something relationships with Bible translators relationships with Bible translators relationships with Bible translators that could help Bobby and so uh and then that could help Bobby and so uh and then that could help Bobby and so uh and then humility and integrity so uh that's humility and integrity so uh that's humility and integrity so uh that's that's what we're look I'm looking for that's what we're look I'm looking for that's what we're look I'm looking for in my position is to to do that and so in my position is to to do that and so in my position is to to do that and so that's that's some of the things car that's that's some of the things car that's that's some of the things car it's amazing to me that you would name it's amazing to me that you would name it's amazing to me that you would name three personal characteristics which three personal characteristics which three personal characteristics which ultimately become organizational ultimately become organizational ultimately become organizational characteristics right as go the leaders characteristics right as go the leaders characteristics right as go the leaders so goes the organization but generosity so goes the organization but generosity so goes the organization but generosity humility and humility and humility and integrity it's kind of universal and and

integrity it's kind of universal and and integrity it's kind of universal and and and deep not broad right like eight and and deep not broad right like eight and and deep not broad right like eight and we'll go really deep and I think that's we'll go really deep and I think that's we'll go really deep and I think that's a very my wife and I you know on a a a very my wife and I you know on a a a very my wife and I you know on a a very micro level from what what you're very micro level from what what you're very micro level from what what you're able to to do you know we've thought able to to do you know we've thought able to to do you know we've thought about it we have three fundamental about it we have three fundamental about it we have three fundamental causes that we're behind uh one in causes that we're behind uh one in causes that we're behind uh one in disproportion our local church yep to disproportion our local church yep to disproportion our local church yep to everything else and then just literally everything else and then just literally everything else and then just literally on one hand a few others that we're like on one hand a few others that we're like on one hand a few others that we're like we can't do everything but we also we can't do everything but we also we can't do everything but we also figure you lots of other people are figure you lots of other people are figure you lots of other people are going to give to lots of other causes going to give to lots of other causes going to give to lots of other causes and these are going to be the things and these are going to be the things and these are going to be the things that we're about so um yeah a couple of that we're about so um yeah a couple of that we're about so um yeah a couple of causes we give to I didn't mention would causes we give to I didn't mention would causes we give to I didn't mention would be two things last for eternity God's be two things last for eternity God's be two things last for eternity God's word and The Souls of men and women so a word and The Souls of men and women so a word and The Souls of men and women so a lot of what we give to is Bible you lot of what we give to is Bible you lot of what we give to is Bible you heard U vergin You Heard Museum of the heard U vergin You Heard Museum of the heard U vergin You Heard Museum of the Bible I'm involved with Bible Bible I'm involved with Bible Bible I'm involved with Bible translation because those two things translation because those two things translation because those two things last forever so if you're going to last forever so if you're going to last forever so if you're going to invest in something you want to get a invest in something you want to get a invest in something you want to get a good ERI Eternal returnal investment so good ERI Eternal returnal investment so good ERI Eternal returnal investment so those are two causes that we give too those are two causes that we give too those are two causes that we give too yeah you know it was it was really yeah you know it was it was really yeah you know it was it was really interesting when I toured Hobby Lobby a interesting when I toured Hobby Lobby a interesting when I toured Hobby Lobby a number of years ago ago I remember number of years ago ago I remember number of years ago ago I remember walking through one of the hallways and walking through one of the hallways and walking through one of the hallways and there were different uh things displayed there were different uh things displayed there were different uh things displayed but there was perhaps the original but there was perhaps the original but there was perhaps the original iPhone that U verion was first iPhone that U verion was first iPhone that U verion was first downloaded on from what was that 2010 or downloaded on from what was that 2010 or downloaded on from what was that 2010 or something like that sitting in the lobby something like that sitting in the lobby something like that sitting in the lobby and the the millions hundreds of and the the millions hundreds of and the the millions hundreds of millions of people who open up U verion millions of people who open up U verion millions of people who open up U verion every day probably wouldn't be doing it every day probably wouldn't be doing it every day probably wouldn't be doing it if it wasn't for your family's decision if it wasn't for your family's decision if it wasn't for your family's decision and Bobby's Vision to partner together and Bobby's Vision to partner together and Bobby's Vision to partner together on this one so just on behalf of all of on this one so just on behalf of all of on this one so just on behalf of all of us who enjoy it and have enjoyed it for

us who enjoy it and have enjoyed it for us who enjoy it and have enjoyed it for many many years thank you thank you for many many years thank you thank you for many many years thank you thank you for doing that um one of one of the doing that um one of one of the doing that um one of one of the questions that intrigues me uh you know questions that intrigues me uh you know questions that intrigues me uh you know appetite is insatiable right like you appetite is insatiable right like you appetite is insatiable right like you know if you if you let it get out of know if you if you let it get out of know if you if you let it get out of control you'll always be hungry and so control you'll always be hungry and so control you'll always be hungry and so two questions on that what have you two questions on that what have you two questions on that what have you learned about the hedonic treadmill you learned about the hedonic treadmill you learned about the hedonic treadmill you know that idea that $10,000 more is know that idea that $10,000 more is know that idea that $10,000 more is going to make me happy the slightly going to make me happy the slightly going to make me happy the slightly bigger house is going to make me happy bigger house is going to make me happy bigger house is going to make me happy that when I become CEO when I become the that when I become CEO when I become the that when I become CEO when I become the lead Pastor when I become you know when lead Pastor when I become you know when lead Pastor when I become you know when we have five campuses whatever it is we have five campuses whatever it is we have five campuses whatever it is will make me happy what are what are you will make me happy what are what are you will make me happy what are what are you learning about what a lot of learning about what a lot of learning about what a lot of sociologists or psychologists call the sociologists or psychologists call the sociologists or psychologists call the honic treadmill this episode is brought honic treadmill this episode is brought honic treadmill this episode is brought to you by ecfa leadership is hard to you by ecfa leadership is hard to you by ecfa leadership is hard especially in Ministry I mean the especially in Ministry I mean the especially in Ministry I mean the pressures the demands the weight of pressures the demands the weight of pressures the demands the weight of responsibility it's no wonder so many responsibility it's no wonder so many responsibility it's no wonder so many leaders feel burned out or isolated but leaders feel burned out or isolated but leaders feel burned out or isolated but it doesn't have to be that way ecfa new it doesn't have to be that way ecfa new it doesn't have to be that way ecfa new leadership standard is a GameChanger leadership standard is a GameChanger leadership standard is a GameChanger it's about creating creating a culture it's about creating creating a culture it's about creating creating a culture where boards proactively care for their where boards proactively care for their where boards proactively care for their senior leaders supporting their senior leaders supporting their senior leaders supporting their well-being and their integrity not just well-being and their integrity not just well-being and their integrity not just as Leaders but as whole people so as Leaders but as whole people so as Leaders but as whole people so imagine a leader who's not just imagine a leader who's not just imagine a leader who's not just surviving but thriving spiritually surviving but thriving spiritually surviving but thriving spiritually emotionally and physically When leaders emotionally and physically When leaders emotionally and physically When leaders are cared for their impact ripples are cared for their impact ripples are cared for their impact ripples outwards strengthening families teams outwards strengthening families teams outwards strengthening families teams and entire Ministries it's a step toward and entire Ministries it's a step toward and entire Ministries it's a step toward healthier leadership and renewed trust healthier leadership and renewed trust healthier leadership and renewed trust in Ministry you can learn more about in Ministry you can learn more about in Ministry you can learn more about leader care at e cfa.org leadership

leader care at e cfa.org leadership leader care at e cfa.org leadership standard that's e cfa.org standard that's e cfa.org standard that's e cfa.org leadership standard our family mission leadership standard our family mission leadership standard our family mission statement kind help helped me drive my statement kind help helped me drive my statement kind help helped me drive my me to my why now you can ask me what do me to my why now you can ask me what do me to my why now you can ask me what do I do and I've done lots of whats I've I do and I've done lots of whats I've I do and I've done lots of whats I've was a founder of Mardell I was at HBY was a founder of Mardell I was at HBY was a founder of Mardell I was at HBY lobby as a nine-year-old mayor I've been lobby as a nine-year-old mayor I've been lobby as a nine-year-old mayor I've been Bible translation so I have different Bible translation so I have different Bible translation so I have different titles I've been a board chair at titles I've been a board chair at titles I've been a board chair at different places so those are the what different places so those are the what different places so those are the what questions and a lot of people ask that questions and a lot of people ask that questions and a lot of people ask that but what's how do you answer the why but what's how do you answer the why but what's how do you answer the why question because I think the why question because I think the why question because I think the why question kind gets to the point of what question kind gets to the point of what question kind gets to the point of what you're asking Carrie and I didn't ask you're asking Carrie and I didn't ask you're asking Carrie and I didn't ask myself that question really until a few myself that question really until a few myself that question really until a few years ago and what helped me was about years ago and what helped me was about years ago and what helped me was about 15 years ago we sat down as a family gen 15 years ago we sat down as a family gen 15 years ago we sat down as a family gen one gen two and gen one and two again one gen two and gen one and two again one gen two and gen one and two again when we're going through all of this when we're going through all of this when we're going through all of this what do we do with the wealth do we own what do we do with the wealth do we own what do we do with the wealth do we own the company are we stewards of the the company are we stewards of the the company are we stewards of the company we say what's our mission company we say what's our mission company we say what's our mission statement as a family we've every statement as a family we've every statement as a family we've every business we've ever had we've always had business we've ever had we've always had business we've ever had we've always had a mission to vision and core values a mission to vision and core values a mission to vision and core values every single time we don't have one for every single time we don't have one for every single time we don't have one for a family well our family is even more a family well our family is even more a family well our family is even more important than our business and so we important than our business and so we important than our business and so we had a couple of people come in from the had a couple of people come in from the had a couple of people come in from the outside we got I think it was was three outside we got I think it was was three outside we got I think it was was three different weekends we went to just a different weekends we went to just a different weekends we went to just a local hotel my parents my brother my local hotel my parents my brother my local hotel my parents my brother my sister our spouse there's eight of us sister our spouse there's eight of us sister our spouse there's eight of us got out the whiteboards and got out the got out the whiteboards and got out the got out the whiteboards and got out the posted notes and started writing down posted notes and started writing down posted notes and started writing down what's important to you and you know what's important to you and you know what's important to you and you know went through that process and so we have went through that process and so we have went through that process and so we have our core values we have a vision our core values we have a vision our core values we have a vision statement but we got down to our mission statement but we got down to our mission statement but we got down to our mission statement something that's really easy statement something that's really easy statement something that's really easy to remember that we could State and it to remember that we could State and it to remember that we could State and it was love guide intimately and live was love guide intimately and live was love guide intimately and live extravagant generosity so in six words extravagant generosity so in six words extravagant generosity so in six words that's what we want to be about loving that's what we want to be about loving that's what we want to be about loving God intimately and living extrav God intimately and living extrav God intimately and living extrav generosity so I've spent last 15 years generosity so I've spent last 15 years generosity so I've spent last 15 years trying to figure out how do you do both

trying to figure out how do you do both trying to figure out how do you do both of those the second one was a little of those the second one was a little of those the second one was a little easier to do because I knew about easier to do because I knew about easier to do because I knew about generosity it was kind of a family trait generosity it was kind of a family trait generosity it was kind of a family trait the first one love got into me what how the first one love got into me what how the first one love got into me what how do you do that so I actually started do you do that so I actually started do you do that so I actually started writing down when did I feel closer to writing down when did I feel closer to writing down when did I feel closer to the Lord and I have 31 different ways I the Lord and I have 31 different ways I the Lord and I have 31 different ways I put a document together it's got 31 put a document together it's got 31 put a document together it's got 31 different ways that I felt like I've different ways that I felt like I've different ways that I felt like I've gotten closer to the Lord I got a verse gotten closer to the Lord I got a verse gotten closer to the Lord I got a verse with them and uh 30 out of 31 I got a with them and uh 30 out of 31 I got a with them and uh 30 out of 31 I got a song with I still got one I don't have a song with I still got one I don't have a song with I still got one I don't have a song for um but through all that process song for um but through all that process song for um but through all that process then I said what's Martin Green's why then I said what's Martin Green's why then I said what's Martin Green's why all the way down to me and I say my why all the way down to me and I say my why all the way down to me and I say my why is to encourage intimacy with God is to encourage intimacy with God is to encourage intimacy with God through Bible absorption and extravagant through Bible absorption and extravagant through Bible absorption and extravagant generosity so all my wives why why am I generosity so all my wives why why am I generosity so all my wives why why am I involved with a chosen right now well involved with a chosen right now well involved with a chosen right now well I'm involved with the chosen right now I'm involved with the chosen right now I'm involved with the chosen right now because I believe the chosen drives because I believe the chosen drives because I believe the chosen drives people back to the Bible which is people back to the Bible which is people back to the Bible which is intimacy with God and so that's what the intimacy with God and so that's what the intimacy with God and so that's what the chosen is all about it actually shows a chosen is all about it actually shows a chosen is all about it actually shows a very intimate God and so and it drives very intimate God and so and it drives very intimate God and so and it drives people to the word I know that because U people to the word I know that because U people to the word I know that because U version shows us that that when the version shows us that that when the version shows us that that when the chosen played Nathaniel came on the chosen played Nathaniel came on the chosen played Nathaniel came on the chosen the first time Nathaniel way over chosen the first time Nathaniel way over chosen the first time Nathaniel way over track matter of fact they thought they track matter of fact they thought they track matter of fact they thought they had a glitch in the system and then one had a glitch in the system and then one had a glitch in the system and then one of the guys says I think Nathaniel of the guys says I think Nathaniel of the guys says I think Nathaniel because people is it Nathaniel because people is it Nathaniel because people is it Nathaniel Bartholomew what what was his name in Bartholomew what what was his name in Bartholomew what what was his name in the so any people are going and so what the so any people are going and so what the so any people are going and so what a thrill it was for for Dallas and a thrill it was for for Dallas and a thrill it was for for Dallas and Amanda to know that yes that's exactly Amanda to know that yes that's exactly Amanda to know that yes that's exactly what they wanted this is just a TV show what they wanted this is just a TV show what they wanted this is just a TV show go read your Bible I mean I've heard go read your Bible I mean I've heard go read your Bible I mean I've heard Amanda say that and so but that's my why Amanda say that and so but that's my why Amanda say that and so but that's my why so why I'm involved with chosen why I'm so why I'm involved with chosen why I'm so why I'm involved with chosen why I'm involved with Bible translation well involved with Bible translation well involved with Bible translation well obviously because I feel like to obviously because I feel like to obviously because I feel like to intimate with the Lord and I use the intimate with the Lord and I use the intimate with the Lord and I use the word bible absorption because I think

word bible absorption because I think word bible absorption because I think there's four A's to the Bible one is there's four A's to the Bible one is there's four A's to the Bible one is Bible access that's translation if you Bible access that's translation if you Bible access that's translation if you don't have it you don't even have access don't have it you don't even have access don't have it you don't even have access there are people on planet Earth that do there are people on planet Earth that do there are people on planet Earth that do not have access to God's word in their not have access to God's word in their not have access to God's word in their heart language and I'm working on that heart language and I'm working on that heart language and I'm working on that in a different on their different act in a different on their different act in a different on their different act then you got what I call advocacy who then you got what I call advocacy who then you got what I call advocacy who advocates for the Bible list the Bible advocates for the Bible list the Bible advocates for the Bible list the Bible up brings its place in culture the up brings its place in culture the up brings its place in culture the Museum of the Bible will be one of those Museum of the Bible will be one of those Museum of the Bible will be one of those ways that our family tries to advocate ways that our family tries to advocate ways that our family tries to advocate for the Bible right there in Washington for the Bible right there in Washington for the Bible right there in Washington DC you go and see wow this Bible has DC you go and see wow this Bible has DC you go and see wow this Bible has lasted it and it's real it's true it's lasted it and it's real it's true it's lasted it and it's real it's true it's God's word and then you got academics uh God's word and then you got academics uh God's word and then you got academics uh You Got What I Call teachers and You Got What I Call teachers and You Got What I Call teachers and preachers we need teachers and preachers preachers we need teachers and preachers preachers we need teachers and preachers there's parts of this Bible that I I there's parts of this Bible that I I there's parts of this Bible that I I think I can understand it but I sure think I can understand it but I sure think I can understand it but I sure sure helps when one of those teachers or sure helps when one of those teachers or sure helps when one of those teachers or one of those preachers explains it to me one of those preachers explains it to me one of those preachers explains it to me um and then my fourth a used to be e was um and then my fourth a used to be e was um and then my fourth a used to be e was was Bible engagement because that's I was Bible engagement because that's I was Bible engagement because that's I thought well then I heard somebody use thought well then I heard somebody use thought well then I heard somebody use the word absorption I thought oh I like the word absorption I thought oh I like the word absorption I thought oh I like that even better so the fourth one is that even better so the fourth one is that even better so the fourth one is not engagement is Bible absorption I not engagement is Bible absorption I not engagement is Bible absorption I want the Bible so deep inside of me want the Bible so deep inside of me want the Bible so deep inside of me Carrie that when I get squeezed it comes Carrie that when I get squeezed it comes Carrie that when I get squeezed it comes back out because I don't know anybody back out because I don't know anybody back out because I don't know anybody who doesn't get squeezed in life and who doesn't get squeezed in life and who doesn't get squeezed in life and really that's where your testimony is at really that's where your testimony is at really that's where your testimony is at people are not all that I mean they people are not all that I mean they people are not all that I mean they they're they're enthralled with success they're they're enthralled with success they're they're enthralled with success but they really want to know is you got but they really want to know is you got but they really want to know is you got knocked down and you got back up and so knocked down and you got back up and so knocked down and you got back up and so that's why I want Bible absorption to be that's why I want Bible absorption to be that's why I want Bible absorption to be inside of me so how do I live a life of inside of me so how do I live a life of inside of me so how do I live a life of generosity humility Integrity I want to generosity humility Integrity I want to generosity humility Integrity I want to hold myself accountable to that do I do hold myself accountable to that do I do hold myself accountable to that do I do it all the time no I I fa too but it's it all the time no I I fa too but it's it all the time no I I fa too but it's my goal it's my I know I know where my

my goal it's my I know I know where my my goal it's my I know I know where my goal is and so because that's our goal goal is and so because that's our goal goal is and so because that's our goal my goal is that every person on planet my goal is that every person on planet my goal is that every person on planet Earth all eight billion would have an Earth all eight billion would have an Earth all eight billion would have an intimate relationship with God all right intimate relationship with God all right intimate relationship with God all right so if I want that for my family I have so if I want that for my family I have so if I want that for my family I have to want it for everybody well I I'm to want it for everybody well I I'm to want it for everybody well I I'm never gonna reach that goal I just it never gonna reach that goal I just it never gonna reach that goal I just it just I I don't have enough time to do just I I don't have enough time to do just I I don't have enough time to do that and so for me that's what keeps me that and so for me that's what keeps me that and so for me that's what keeps me going every day why I've already told going every day why I've already told going every day why I've already told you we don't we're not going to make any you we don't we're not going to make any you we don't we're not going to make any more money if I we make more money next more money if I we make more money next more money if I we make more money next year I I won't make a dime more all year I I won't make a dime more all year I I won't make a dime more all right but I'll give away more whatever right but I'll give away more whatever right but I'll give away more whatever we make I give give away half of that we make I give give away half of that we make I give give away half of that and why would I do that because I'm and why would I do that because I'm and why would I do that because I'm thinking about eternity and so I'd love thinking about eternity and so I'd love thinking about eternity and so I'd love to see as many people in heaven have an to see as many people in heaven have an to see as many people in heaven have an intimate with God so they have an intimate with God so they have an intimate with God so they have an eternal Destiny with their maker and so eternal Destiny with their maker and so eternal Destiny with their maker and so um that goal is uh unreachable I have we um that goal is uh unreachable I have we um that goal is uh unreachable I have we have to have other people and other have to have other people and other have to have other people and other people are working on that same goal and people are working on that same goal and people are working on that same goal and have that same passion but that's what have that same passion but that's what have that same passion but that's what gets me up in the morning every day is gets me up in the morning every day is gets me up in the morning every day is to be able to go out live an intimate to be able to go out live an intimate to be able to go out live an intimate relationship with My Father the Son and relationship with My Father the Son and relationship with My Father the Son and Holy Spirit and then try to convince me Holy Spirit and then try to convince me Holy Spirit and then try to convince me other people that Jesus loves you other people that Jesus loves you other people that Jesus loves you unconditionally loves you um the unconditionally loves you um the unconditionally loves you um the question is not whether he loves you the question is not whether he loves you the question is not whether he loves you the question is do you love him question is do you love him question is do you love him back I've had uh some meals and back I've had uh some meals and back I've had uh some meals and conversations with people who are conversations with people who are conversations with people who are heavily involved in scripture and heavily involved in scripture and heavily involved in scripture and they've told me about some of the they've told me about some of the they've told me about some of the initiatives that you have taken or initiatives that you have taken or initiatives that you have taken or spearheaded over Bible translation over spearheaded over Bible translation over spearheaded over Bible translation over the last number of years can you give us the last number of years can you give us the last number of years can you give us an idea because I think it was a a field an idea because I think it was a a field an idea because I think it was a a field I don't want to call it an industry but I don't want to call it an industry but I don't want to call it an industry but a field that was ripe for disruption SL

a field that was ripe for disruption SL a field that was ripe for disruption SL modernization in other words from what I modernization in other words from what I modernization in other words from what I understand and maybe I'm wrong you can understand and maybe I'm wrong you can understand and maybe I'm wrong you can correct me on this but Bible translation correct me on this but Bible translation correct me on this but Bible translation up until very recently was being done as up until very recently was being done as up until very recently was being done as it's been done for the last couple it's been done for the last couple it's been done for the last couple hundred years you know you send a hundred years you know you send a hundred years you know you send a missionary off uh they work for 40 years missionary off uh they work for 40 years missionary off uh they work for 40 years trying to learn this dialect they maybe trying to learn this dialect they maybe trying to learn this dialect they maybe get the Gospel of John translated before get the Gospel of John translated before get the Gospel of John translated before they die and then someone else goes in they die and then someone else goes in they die and then someone else goes in the field tries to do Matthew mark and the field tries to do Matthew mark and the field tries to do Matthew mark and Luke and and maybe a hundred years later Luke and and maybe a hundred years later Luke and and maybe a hundred years later you get a whole Bible uh and that's you get a whole Bible uh and that's you get a whole Bible uh and that's that's not from what I understand that that's not from what I understand that that's not from what I understand that much of an much of an much of an exaggeration that has been disrupted slm exaggeration that has been disrupted slm exaggeration that has been disrupted slm modernized modernized modernized significantly in the last few years can significantly in the last few years can significantly in the last few years can you talk about your involvement in that you talk about your involvement in that you talk about your involvement in that process and the philosophy to get the process and the philosophy to get the process and the philosophy to get the Bible into every language known to man Bible into every language known to man Bible into every language known to man by by by 2033 yeah well thanks for asking Carrie 2033 yeah well thanks for asking Carrie 2033 yeah well thanks for asking Carrie and you there's lots of people doing and you there's lots of people doing and you there's lots of people doing lots of things so I I have a part of the lots of things so I I have a part of the lots of things so I I have a part of the story so I my parts the story I'm not story so I my parts the story I'm not story so I my parts the story I'm not the story but actually is ironic in 1998 the story but actually is ironic in 1998 the story but actually is ironic in 1998 I had a quite a I had a quite a I had a quite a life changing moment and it was when I life changing moment and it was when I life changing moment and it was when I saw a man get God's word in his heart saw a man get God's word in his heart saw a man get God's word in his heart language for the first time and he wept language for the first time and he wept language for the first time and he wept for it matter of fact he he when he was for it matter of fact he he when he was for it matter of fact he he when he was weeping uh he wiped the tears away weeping uh he wiped the tears away weeping uh he wiped the tears away because he had gotten God's word in his because he had gotten God's word in his because he had gotten God's word in his heart language for the first time and heart language for the first time and heart language for the first time and that really impacted me and so I started that really impacted me and so I started that really impacted me and so I started J what what is heart language just so we J what what is heart language just so we J what what is heart language just so we all understand it yeah heart language is all understand it yeah heart language is all understand it yeah heart language is a heart is what you were taught in your a heart is what you were taught in your a heart is what you were taught in your home and the way I like to say it is if home and the way I like to say it is if home and the way I like to say it is if you proposed to your wife or got

you proposed to your wife or got you proposed to your wife or got proposed to that would be the language proposed to that would be the language proposed to that would be the language that Jesus would speak to you it's the that Jesus would speak to you it's the that Jesus would speak to you it's the language you speak in your home now many language you speak in your home now many language you speak in your home now many people know more than one language they people know more than one language they people know more than one language they may know the heart language and Spanish may know the heart language and Spanish may know the heart language and Spanish but what's the language when you go back but what's the language when you go back but what's the language when you go back home when you propose to your spouse home when you propose to your spouse home when you propose to your spouse what's the heart language that you know what's the heart language that you know what's the heart language that you know intuitively first that's your heart intuitively first that's your heart intuitively first that's your heart language we believe Jesus would speak to language we believe Jesus would speak to language we believe Jesus would speak to in that he wouldn't make you go learn in that he wouldn't make you go learn in that he wouldn't make you go learn Spanish or speak to in Spanish if he Spanish or speak to in Spanish if he Spanish or speak to in Spanish if he knew your heart language was EAS hwl knew your heart language was EAS hwl knew your heart language was EAS hwl Tech so for a gas bar his heart language Tech so for a gas bar his heart language Tech so for a gas bar his heart language Eastern hwl Tech now he knew the trade Eastern hwl Tech now he knew the trade Eastern hwl Tech now he knew the trade language Spanish so he could make it in language Spanish so he could make it in language Spanish so he could make it in Spanish now his parents couldn't but he Spanish now his parents couldn't but he Spanish now his parents couldn't but he could because he was of the agian stage could because he was of the agian stage could because he was of the agian stage he could speak Spanish and he hch but he could speak Spanish and he hch but he could speak Spanish and he hch but his heart language the one that oh oh his heart language the one that oh oh his heart language the one that oh oh that has flavor to it that has color to that has flavor to it that has color to that has flavor to it that has color to it was obviously uh uh Eastern huckle it was obviously uh uh Eastern huckle it was obviously uh uh Eastern huckle Tech so that's what we mean by heart Tech so that's what we mean by heart Tech so that's what we mean by heart language and so um so anyway the Bible language and so um so anyway the Bible language and so um so anyway the Bible in your heart language that's the goal in your heart language that's the goal in your heart language that's the goal yeah so for me my heart language is yeah so for me my heart language is yeah so for me my heart language is English that was spoken in my house my English that was spoken in my house my English that was spoken in my house my mother speak it I I proposed to my wife mother speak it I I proposed to my wife mother speak it I I proposed to my wife in that language and so that's the in that language and so that's the in that language and so that's the language now I'm like most people in the language now I'm like most people in the language now I'm like most people in the world they know they're they know at world they know they're they know at world they know they're they know at least a couple languages I'm an American least a couple languages I'm an American least a couple languages I'm an American I know one language so Canadian I'm not I know one language so Canadian I'm not I know one language so Canadian I'm not much better tiny bit of French little much better tiny bit of French little much better tiny bit of French little biten you got some French up there in biten you got some French up there in biten you got some French up there in Canada so sometimes you got those by Canada so sometimes you got those by Canada so sometimes you got those by sometimes you got Spanish English sometimes you got Spanish English sometimes you got Spanish English speakers obviously you know I have speakers obviously you know I have speakers obviously you know I have neighbors and friends who speak more neighbors and friends who speak more neighbors and friends who speak more than one language but they would have a than one language but they would have a than one language but they would have a heart language and it might be Spanish heart language and it might be Spanish heart language and it might be Spanish and it might be English now for my and it might be English now for my and it might be English now for my daughter-in-law she uh she's a

daughter-in-law she uh she's a daughter-in-law she uh she's a Vietnamese was born in a refugee camp in Vietnamese was born in a refugee camp in Vietnamese was born in a refugee camp in Malaysia her parents escaped Malaysia Malaysia her parents escaped Malaysia Malaysia her parents escaped Malaysia Vietnam was in Malaysia her mom got Vietnam was in Malaysia her mom got Vietnam was in Malaysia her mom got pregnant she was born um and then she pregnant she was born um and then she pregnant she was born um and then she came here well her heart language would came here well her heart language would came here well her heart language would be Vietnamese when she goes and talks to be Vietnamese when she goes and talks to be Vietnamese when she goes and talks to her mom she speaks in Vietnamese now she her mom she speaks in Vietnamese now she her mom she speaks in Vietnamese now she speaks English if you talked on the speaks English if you talked on the speaks English if you talked on the phone you couldn't tell the accent her phone you couldn't tell the accent her phone you couldn't tell the accent her parents very broken English you'd have a parents very broken English you'd have a parents very broken English you'd have a hard time understanding them on the hard time understanding them on the hard time understanding them on the phone right because that's the where she phone right because that's the where she phone right because that's the where she grew up so they're heart language we grew up so they're heart language we grew up so they're heart language we Vietnamese hers is Vietnamese with some Vietnamese hers is Vietnamese with some Vietnamese hers is Vietnamese with some English now her kids my grandkids speak English now her kids my grandkids speak English now her kids my grandkids speak English that's their heart language but English that's their heart language but English that's their heart language but they know the Vietnamese their heart they know the Vietnamese their heart they know the Vietnamese their heart language would be would be English and language would be would be English and language would be would be English and so uh so that's what we mean by heart so uh so that's what we mean by heart so uh so that's what we mean by heart language okay so you want to get the the language okay so you want to get the the language okay so you want to get the the Bible under the heart language of Bible under the heart language of Bible under the heart language of everyone on Earth on some level by everyone on Earth on some level by everyone on Earth on some level by 2033 how have you changed or helped 2033 how have you changed or helped 2033 how have you changed or helped change that model that was in place for change that model that was in place for change that model that was in place for centuries yeah what happened to me in centuries yeah what happened to me in centuries yeah what happened to me in 199 I started journaling because of this 199 I started journaling because of this 199 I started journaling because of this experience of this Bible dedication on experience of this Bible dedication on experience of this Bible dedication on June 23rd 1998 I won't go in the whole June 23rd 1998 I won't go in the whole June 23rd 1998 I won't go in the whole story but I wrote in my journals this story but I wrote in my journals this story but I wrote in my journals this night for some reason it just one of night for some reason it just one of night for some reason it just one of like I call them the Holy Spirit like I call them the Holy Spirit like I call them the Holy Spirit promptings God doesn't speak to me but promptings God doesn't speak to me but promptings God doesn't speak to me but sometimes I get something in my spirit sometimes I get something in my spirit sometimes I get something in my spirit I'm like where' that come from that's I'm like where' that come from that's I'm like where' that come from that's not I didn't have that idea so I wrote not I didn't have that idea so I wrote not I didn't have that idea so I wrote it down someday there' be a project so it down someday there' be a project so it down someday there' be a project so big that if the ministry Partners didn't big that if the ministry Partners didn't big that if the ministry Partners didn't come together it wouldn't happen almost come together it wouldn't happen almost come together it wouldn't happen almost like a hand like these are all different like a hand like these are all different like a hand like these are all different Min they'd have to come together and Min they'd have to come together and Min they'd have to come together and then the second line I wrote is someday then the second line I wrote is someday then the second line I wrote is someday be a project so big that if the the be a project so big that if the the be a project so big that if the the gospel the p the the funders didn't come gospel the p the the funders didn't come gospel the p the the funders didn't come together it wouldn't get done and the together it wouldn't get done and the together it wouldn't get done and the third one was there's a project so big third one was there's a project so big third one was there's a project so big if the ministry partners and the

if the ministry partners and the if the ministry partners and the Resource Partners don't come together it Resource Partners don't come together it Resource Partners don't come together it won't get done I wrote that in my won't get done I wrote that in my won't get done I wrote that in my journal June 23rd 1998 and God 1998 was journal June 23rd 1998 and God 1998 was journal June 23rd 1998 and God 1998 was a pivotal year in my life the first year a pivotal year in my life the first year a pivotal year in my life the first year I'd ever journaled so I started I'd ever journaled so I started I'd ever journaled so I started journaling because God was doing so much journaling because God was doing so much journaling because God was doing so much I figured something will happen really I figured something will happen really I figured something will happen really quick and I'll know why I wrote that quick and I'll know why I wrote that quick and I'll know why I wrote that down in my journals I didn't it took 12 down in my journals I didn't it took 12 down in my journals I didn't it took 12 years later 12 years years later 12 years years later 12 years later February the 15 2010 I'm in later February the 15 2010 I'm in later February the 15 2010 I'm in Guatemala which is where I'd seen this Guatemala which is where I'd seen this Guatemala which is where I'd seen this man weep up the Bible man weep up the Bible man weep up the Bible and the Lord put in my heart eradicate and the Lord put in my heart eradicate and the Lord put in my heart eradicate Bible poverty okay so that was the idea Bible poverty okay so that was the idea Bible poverty okay so that was the idea that I got okay eradicate Bible poverty that I got okay eradicate Bible poverty that I got okay eradicate Bible poverty we could get everybody God's word in we could get everybody God's word in we could get everybody God's word in their heart language sooner rather than their heart language sooner rather than their heart language sooner rather than later if I can get the Resource Partners later if I can get the Resource Partners later if I can get the Resource Partners and the ministry Partners to come and the ministry Partners to come and the ministry Partners to come together so that was February the 15 together so that was February the 15 together so that was February the 15 2010 by May 3rd 2010 I'd got home I'd 2010 by May 3rd 2010 I'd got home I'd 2010 by May 3rd 2010 I'd got home I'd called some Resource Partners I'd called called some Resource Partners I'd called called some Resource Partners I'd called some CEOs we all met in Orlando Florida some CEOs we all met in Orlando Florida some CEOs we all met in Orlando Florida and I said guys if you guys will all and I said guys if you guys will all and I said guys if you guys will all come together and work together I think come together and work together I think come together and work together I think we could set a goal I think we could I we could set a goal I think we could I we could set a goal I think we could I don't think it we have to wait till 2150 don't think it we have to wait till 2150 don't think it we have to wait till 2150 for the last Bible translation to start for the last Bible translation to start for the last Bible translation to start what if we shared data what if we shared what if we shared data what if we shared what if we shared data what if we shared tools what if we did this we as donors tools what if we did this we as donors tools what if we did this we as donors if you guys will share things we'll fund if you guys will share things we'll fund if you guys will share things we'll fund it how about that you know so anyway it how about that you know so anyway it how about that you know so anyway that was kind of the spirit of it you that was kind of the spirit of it you that was kind of the spirit of it you know it's kind of cumbersome try is this know it's kind of cumbersome try is this know it's kind of cumbersome try is this going to work you know and um it it did going to work you know and um it it did going to work you know and um it it did you know and the next month so we met you know and the next month so we met you know and the next month so we met every month for 10 years we met a every month for 10 years we met a every month for 10 years we met a hundred times in 10 years c21 animals hundred times in 10 years c21 animals hundred times in 10 years c21 animals Club at Dallas Fort Worth the largest I Club at Dallas Fort Worth the largest I Club at Dallas Fort Worth the largest I heard it was at the Admiral's Club at heard it was at the Admiral's Club at heard it was at the Admiral's Club at Dallas Fort Worth DFW fly in meet for Dallas Fort Worth DFW fly in meet for Dallas Fort Worth DFW fly in meet for four hours and fly back and so why would four hours and fly back and so why would four hours and fly back and so why would you do that well because you have to

you do that well because you have to you do that well because you have to build relational trust you want to do build relational trust you want to do build relational trust you want to do something together because Unity is something together because Unity is something together because Unity is super super hard because Satan always super super hard because Satan always super super hard because Satan always attacks at the point of unity because attacks at the point of unity because attacks at the point of unity because Unity is the power that's why your Unity is the power that's why your Unity is the power that's why your marriage is hard that's why my marriage marriage is hard that's why my marriage marriage is hard that's why my marriage is hard that's why all marriages are is hard that's why all marriages are is hard that's why all marriages are hard because it's the most unified thing hard because it's the most unified thing hard because it's the most unified thing we have Satan shows up because he knows we have Satan shows up because he knows we have Satan shows up because he knows the power of unity so anyway we came the power of unity so anyway we came the power of unity so anyway we came together set goals we set a 2033 goal together set goals we set a 2033 goal together set goals we set a 2033 goal now it's what we call an all access goal now it's what we call an all access goal now it's what we call an all access goal it won't be every verse translated for it won't be every verse translated for it won't be every verse translated for every language for Old and New Testament every language for Old and New Testament every language for Old and New Testament but 95% of the world will have the Old but 95% of the world will have the Old but 95% of the world will have the Old and New Testament if we reach our goal and New Testament if we reach our goal and New Testament if we reach our goal 99.96% languages on planet Earth today counting languages on planet Earth today counting the 250 sign languages wow wow well the 250 sign languages wow wow well the 250 sign languages wow wow well congratulations now um one of the things congratulations now um one of the things congratulations now um one of the things I've heard is that AI is speeding this I've heard is that AI is speeding this I've heard is that AI is speeding this up and when people think about AI they up and when people think about AI they up and when people think about AI they might be like well it's the inherent might be like well it's the inherent might be like well it's the inherent word of God you can't use AI for it how word of God you can't use AI for it how word of God you can't use AI for it how because this is a big conversation that because this is a big conversation that because this is a big conversation that we're having in multiple layers on this we're having in multiple layers on this we're having in multiple layers on this podcast and will because you know here podcast and will because you know here podcast and will because you know here we are you know if you were doing this we are you know if you were doing this we are you know if you were doing this 200 years ago people couldn't fly into 200 years ago people couldn't fly into 200 years ago people couldn't fly into c21 at the ambassador's lounge at DFW c21 at the ambassador's lounge at DFW c21 at the ambassador's lounge at DFW right it just wouldn't happen you'd be right it just wouldn't happen you'd be right it just wouldn't happen you'd be on a ship maybe you'd make it to Africa

on a ship maybe you'd make it to Africa on a ship maybe you'd make it to Africa maybe you wouldn't who knows um so you maybe you wouldn't who knows um so you maybe you wouldn't who knows um so you know we're using technology all the time know we're using technology all the time know we're using technology all the time um what role if any does AI play in um what role if any does AI play in um what role if any does AI play in helping Advance the spread of the Gospel helping Advance the spread of the Gospel helping Advance the spread of the Gospel yeah well it's fun for us in 2010 when yeah well it's fun for us in 2010 when yeah well it's fun for us in 2010 when we first all came together we said guys we first all came together we said guys we first all came together we said guys people G have to invent things that people G have to invent things that people G have to invent things that aren't invented now if we're going to aren't invented now if we're going to aren't invented now if we're going to get this done because there's no way how get this done because there's no way how get this done because there's no way how many going to be 2150 how do you cut 100 many going to be 2150 how do you cut 100 many going to be 2150 how do you cut 100 years and even with all the hard work years and even with all the hard work years and even with all the hard work we've done we're about 2043 now so we we've done we're about 2043 now so we we've done we're about 2043 now so we measure it I there's 68 measure it I there's 68 measure it I there's 68 68345 chapters left to reach our goal so 68345 chapters left to reach our goal so 68345 chapters left to reach our goal so our goal is a number because you take our goal is a number because you take our goal is a number because you take all those Bibles time the number of all those Bibles time the number of all those Bibles time the number of chapters it's a number right and so chapters it's a number right and so chapters it's a number right and so we've got every month I get a new number we've got every month I get a new number we've got every month I get a new number so here in a few days we'll get the so here in a few days we'll get the so here in a few days we'll get the November number but as of October it was 68345 um but yeah we had no idea AI 68345 um but yeah we had no idea AI would be one of those tools but is one would be one of those tools but is one would be one of those tools but is one of several tools but yes and what's so of several tools but yes and what's so of several tools but yes and what's so cool Carrie is be because we have 11 cool Carrie is be because we have 11 cool Carrie is be because we have 11 different major Partners but behind different major Partners but behind different major Partners but behind those Partners there's other partners we those Partners there's other partners we those Partners there's other partners we have 190 different boards that are have 190 different boards that are have 190 different boards that are actually represented by these 11 actually represented by these 11 actually represented by these 11 Partners so that's a lot of people and Partners so that's a lot of people and Partners so that's a lot of people and they're not like Hobby Lobby top down they're not like Hobby Lobby top down they're not like Hobby Lobby top down right I mean you can ask them to do right I mean you can ask them to do right I mean you can ask them to do stuff but they say I they may say no but stuff but they say I they may say no but stuff but they say I they may say no but we have a Innovation lab so the we have a Innovation lab so the we have a Innovation lab so the Innovation lab we went outside outside Innovation lab we went outside outside Innovation lab we went outside outside of the Bible translation world and of the Bible translation world and of the Bible translation world and brought some people in we went inside brought some people in we went inside brought some people in we went inside the Bible translation and got the best the Bible translation and got the best the Bible translation and got the best from each of these 11 and said let's from each of these 11 and said let's from each of these 11 and said let's bring those guys together so instead of bring those guys together so instead of bring those guys together so instead of all these organizations going down do AI all these organizations going down do AI all these organizations going down do AI on their own we're collaboratively doing on their own we're collaboratively doing on their own we're collaboratively doing it we have six different tests going on

it we have six different tests going on it we have six different tests going on right now one of the test takes New right now one of the test takes New right now one of the test takes New Testaments so there's many languages Testaments so there's many languages Testaments so there's many languages that have the New Testament done that that have the New Testament done that that have the New Testament done that don't have the old right because that don't have the old right because that don't have the old right because that was kind of the goal for for some of the was kind of the goal for for some of the was kind of the goal for for some of the translators to get the New Testament translators to get the New Testament translators to get the New Testament done now because you got those words you done now because you got those words you done now because you got those words you can put that in and you can get a rough can put that in and you can get a rough can put that in and you can get a rough draft of an Old Testament now you still draft of an Old Testament now you still draft of an Old Testament now you still have to have human element but just have to have human element but just have to have human element but just think of all the the work the hard work think of all the the work the hard work think of all the the work the hard work that the old test the New Testament can that the old test the New Testament can that the old test the New Testament can get it you have the same word you have get it you have the same word you have get it you have the same word you have the same things and so man you talk the same things and so man you talk the same things and so man you talk about H such a blessing just like the about H such a blessing just like the about H such a blessing just like the typewriter was a blessing usually we had typewriter was a blessing usually we had typewriter was a blessing usually we had index cards then we had typewriters then index cards then we had typewriters then index cards then we had typewriters then we had computers so the new technologies we had computers so the new technologies we had computers so the new technologies help Bible translation all along the way help Bible translation all along the way help Bible translation all along the way it's just we have a new one now so it's just we have a new one now so it's just we have a new one now so that's a going to be a phenomenal tool that's a going to be a phenomenal tool that's a going to be a phenomenal tool that'll cut years off of getting those that'll cut years off of getting those that'll cut years off of getting those Old Testament done now let's take a Old Testament done now let's take a Old Testament done now let's take a language that's in uh that has lots of language that's in uh that has lots of language that's in uh that has lots of newspapers has lots of books because newspapers has lots of books because newspapers has lots of books because there's large languages let's think there's large languages let's think there's large languages let's think Middle East right where there's not a Middle East right where there's not a Middle East right where there's not a lot of Believers and there's no Bible in lot of Believers and there's no Bible in lot of Believers and there's no Bible in that language but there's lots of that language but there's lots of that language but there's lots of communication available because AI needs communication available because AI needs communication available because AI needs lots of information we take that put it lots of information we take that put it lots of information we take that put it in the computer and again it puts out a in the computer and again it puts out a in the computer and again it puts out a rough draft then you come back and the rough draft then you come back and the rough draft then you come back and the humans got to get involved it's there's humans got to get involved it's there's humans got to get involved it's there's no way that AI is gonna be able to get no way that AI is gonna be able to get no way that AI is gonna be able to get it right but you go back and forth back it right but you go back and forth back it right but you go back and forth back and forth so that starts with the and forth so that starts with the and forth so that starts with the computer comes back to human and then we computer comes back to human and then we computer comes back to human and then we refine it and then so but it'll cut refine it and then so but it'll cut refine it and then so but it'll cut several years off because it takes 16 several years off because it takes 16 several years off because it takes 16 years to get a full Bible what if you years to get a full Bible what if you years to get a full Bible what if you could do an eight what if you could do could do an eight what if you could do could do an eight what if you could do in four well used to there was no in four well used to there was no in four well used to there was no there's no way to get it from 16 down there's no way to get it from 16 down there's no way to get it from 16 down that was just kind of what it took but that was just kind of what it took but that was just kind of what it took but now we see that Vision happening the now we see that Vision happening the now we see that Vision happening the third one would be there are languages

third one would be there are languages third one would be there are languages that have no written material they're that have no written material they're that have no written material they're oral languages AI that's kind of tough oral languages AI that's kind of tough oral languages AI that's kind of tough you need something so then you got to you need something so then you got to you need something so then you got to say AI okay what if I gave you Matthew say AI okay what if I gave you Matthew say AI okay what if I gave you Matthew what if I gave you Romans oh you need a what if I gave you Romans oh you need a what if I gave you Romans oh you need a poetry what if I gave you a few Psalms poetry what if I gave you a few Psalms poetry what if I gave you a few Psalms how much do I need to give you so now how much do I need to give you so now how much do I need to give you so now that one we start with the human give it that one we start with the human give it that one we start with the human give it to the computer comes back to human says to the computer comes back to human says to the computer comes back to human says Ah pretty good uh maybe I should do some Ah pretty good uh maybe I should do some Ah pretty good uh maybe I should do some more you see what I'm saying and so more you see what I'm saying and so more you see what I'm saying and so that's a third test model that's going that's a third test model that's going that's a third test model that's going out there so what we're doing is we're out there so what we're doing is we're out there so what we're doing is we're making all the mistakes down here once making all the mistakes down here once making all the mistakes down here once at this level so that by time we hand it at this level so that by time we hand it at this level so that by time we hand it off to the next level the AI and so I off to the next level the AI and so I off to the next level the AI and so I think we probably got two or three think we probably got two or three think we probably got two or three hundred projects now where four or five hundred projects now where four or five hundred projects now where four or five years ago we had on Z two Z and now we years ago we had on Z two Z and now we years ago we had on Z two Z and now we have lots of those uh another one's oral have lots of those uh another one's oral have lots of those uh another one's oral Bible translation used to you had to Bible translation used to you had to Bible translation used to you had to read and write so I might know Spanish read and write so I might know Spanish read and write so I might know Spanish and I might know Eastern hog Tech and I and I might know Eastern hog Tech and I and I might know Eastern hog Tech and I could read and write both of them but if could read and write both of them but if could read and write both of them but if you couldn't read and write you could be you couldn't read and write you could be you couldn't read and write you could be a translator well now we have a new a translator well now we have a new a translator well now we have a new technology that's audio so you listen to technology that's audio so you listen to technology that's audio so you listen to the Spanish you say it in Eastern hwl the Spanish you say it in Eastern hwl the Spanish you say it in Eastern hwl Tech and then we're able to translate Tech and then we're able to translate Tech and then we're able to translate that and put it out to the people who that and put it out to the people who that and put it out to the people who don't have a written language anyway and don't have a written language anyway and don't have a written language anyway and so used to we always wrote a language so used to we always wrote a language so used to we always wrote a language first so now we have like 400 oral first so now we have like 400 oral first so now we have like 400 oral translations because a lot of the ones translations because a lot of the ones translations because a lot of the ones that are left are the hardest ones and that are left are the hardest ones and that are left are the hardest ones and they're small people groups and they they're small people groups and they they're small people groups and they don't have any written language at all don't have any written language at all don't have any written language at all and so then we're trying to get AI how and so then we're trying to get AI how and so then we're trying to get AI how does AI help us with audio and so uh does AI help us with audio and so uh does AI help us with audio and so uh that's in the works too so yeah AI is that's in the works too so yeah AI is that's in the works too so yeah AI is going to be a phenomenal tool just like going to be a phenomenal tool just like going to be a phenomenal tool just like anything the tool is neutral the tool is anything the tool is neutral the tool is anything the tool is neutral the tool is not evil there's nothing evil about AI not evil there's nothing evil about AI not evil there's nothing evil about AI is AI being used in evil ways absolutely

is AI being used in evil ways absolutely is AI being used in evil ways absolutely it is just like computers are just like it is just like computers are just like it is just like computers are just like typewriters were and so uh but anyway typewriters were and so uh but anyway typewriters were and so uh but anyway it's exciting exciting times it gives us it's exciting exciting times it gives us it's exciting exciting times it gives us the hope that we can make that 2033 goal the hope that we can make that 2033 goal the hope that we can make that 2033 goal we're still we're still claiming by 2033 we're still we're still claiming by 2033 we're still we're still claiming by 2033 Jesus will have been gone 2,000 years he Jesus will have been gone 2,000 years he Jesus will have been gone 2,000 years he gave us plenty of time to get this done gave us plenty of time to get this done gave us plenty of time to get this done so so so I I just have to ask for those of us who I I just have to ask for those of us who I I just have to ask for those of us who are curious who and where is Eastern are curious who and where is Eastern are curious who and where is Eastern hawle Tech where was that spoken is that hawle Tech where was that spoken is that hawle Tech where was that spoken is that Guatemala is in Guatemala it's up in Guatemala is in Guatemala it's up in Guatemala is in Guatemala it's up in concepion um about a 10-hour drive from concepion um about a 10-hour drive from concepion um about a 10-hour drive from Guatemala a death defying 10-hour drive Guatemala a death defying 10-hour drive Guatemala a death defying 10-hour drive by the way but anyway I did get there so by the way but anyway I did get there so by the way but anyway I did get there so anyway that was the Bible translation anyway that was the Bible translation anyway that was the Bible translation where gasbar wept over that Bible and where gasbar wept over that Bible and where gasbar wept over that Bible and let me know that I was taking God's word let me know that I was taking God's word let me know that I was taking God's word for for granted I I wasn't reading God's for for granted I I wasn't reading God's for for granted I I wasn't reading God's word on a consistent basis and I made a word on a consistent basis and I made a word on a consistent basis and I made a vow while I was in Guatemala that I'd vow while I was in Guatemala that I'd vow while I was in Guatemala that I'd get it first thing and read it for the get it first thing and read it for the get it first thing and read it for the rest of my life and it's totally changed rest of my life and it's totally changed rest of my life and it's totally changed my life because it's a love letter to me my life because it's a love letter to me my life because it's a love letter to me I get up every morning to read this love I get up every morning to read this love I get up every morning to read this love letter called The Bible and uh it's letter called The Bible and uh it's letter called The Bible and uh it's change it's totally rocked my world but change it's totally rocked my world but change it's totally rocked my world but it took a man weeping over his Bible to it took a man weeping over his Bible to it took a man weeping over his Bible to let me know I took my Bible for granted let me know I took my Bible for granted let me know I took my Bible for granted and I of all people should have known I and I of all people should have known I and I of all people should have known I own 15 Christian bookstores I paid for own 15 Christian bookstores I paid for own 15 Christian bookstores I paid for the printing of that Bible right I'm a the printing of that Bible right I'm a the printing of that Bible right I'm a believer I'm a third generation of my believer I'm a third generation of my believer I'm a third generation of my mom and dad and yet uh I was reading mom and dad and yet uh I was reading mom and dad and yet uh I was reading more books than the book and now uh I more books than the book and now uh I more books than the book and now uh I prioritize the book you're reading the mail of a lot of you're reading the mail of a lot of people with their relationship with the people with their relationship with the people with their relationship with the word of God and uh I appreciate you word of God and uh I appreciate you word of God and uh I appreciate you sharing that um you're a futurist so

sharing that um you're a futurist so sharing that um you're a futurist so what I've seen and heard that you're what I've seen and heard that you're what I've seen and heard that you're doing and others are doing in terms of doing and others are doing in terms of doing and others are doing in terms of Bible translation and just you know one Bible translation and just you know one Bible translation and just you know one of the principles underneath that Mart of the principles underneath that Mart of the principles underneath that Mart is uh collaboration and I think if you is uh collaboration and I think if you is uh collaboration and I think if you look at the church as a whole there's look at the church as a whole there's look at the church as a whole there's been a lot of silos you know to use p been a lot of silos you know to use p been a lot of silos you know to use p lon's language silos politics and turf lon's language silos politics and turf lon's language silos politics and turf wars it's like I'm going to figure this wars it's like I'm going to figure this wars it's like I'm going to figure this out I don't need your help uh you and I out I don't need your help uh you and I out I don't need your help uh you and I have been at some Gatherings of the last have been at some Gatherings of the last have been at some Gatherings of the last few years convened by Scott Beck where few years convened by Scott Beck where few years convened by Scott Beck where trying to bring Christian thought trying to bring Christian thought trying to bring Christian thought leaders together and figure out how we leaders together and figure out how we leaders together and figure out how we can can can cooperate as a futurist what role do you cooperate as a futurist what role do you cooperate as a futurist what role do you see cooperation playing in the future of see cooperation playing in the future of see cooperation playing in the future of the capital c Church in individual the capital c Church in individual the capital c Church in individual congregations yeah great question Carrie congregations yeah great question Carrie congregations yeah great question Carrie and and I think it's huge because I mean and and I think it's huge because I mean and and I think it's huge because I mean John 17 21 tells us that when we're John 17 21 tells us that when we're John 17 21 tells us that when we're unified the world will know who he is so unified the world will know who he is so unified the world will know who he is so we know that verse it's hard there's we know that verse it's hard there's we know that verse it's hard there's lots of diversity but I guess what lots of diversity but I guess what lots of diversity but I guess what encourages me that I see happening out encourages me that I see happening out encourages me that I see happening out there is what is sometimes called City there is what is sometimes called City there is what is sometimes called City gospel movements it's where people in gospel movements it's where people in gospel movements it's where people in the city C come together sometimes it's the city C come together sometimes it's the city C come together sometimes it's led by business people sometimes it's by led by business people sometimes it's by led by business people sometimes it's by the church so different cities have the church so different cities have the church so different cities have these they don't all have them but it's these they don't all have them but it's these they don't all have them but it's them coming together and say how do we them coming together and say how do we them coming together and say how do we serve our city what are the needs of our serve our city what are the needs of our serve our city what are the needs of our city I live in Oklahoma City my needs city I live in Oklahoma City my needs city I live in Oklahoma City my needs are different than your city in Canada are different than your city in Canada are different than your city in Canada different than California different than different than California different than different than California different than Nevada they're all different but where's Nevada they're all different but where's Nevada they're all different but where's the action going to happen where does the action going to happen where does the action going to happen where does discipleship happen it always happens at discipleship happen it always happens at discipleship happen it always happens at the local level and so in the end Christ the local level and so in the end Christ the local level and so in the end Christ followers need to happen at the local

followers need to happen at the local followers need to happen at the local level so what happens when we come level so what happens when we come level so what happens when we come together whether whether we're Catholic together whether whether we're Catholic together whether whether we're Catholic whether we're Pentecostal whether we're whether we're Pentecostal whether we're whether we're Pentecostal whether we're Baptist how do we come together to serve Baptist how do we come together to serve Baptist how do we come together to serve our city what are the needs of our city our city what are the needs of our city our city what are the needs of our city and so let's come together business and so let's come together business and so let's come together business government church we all care about the government church we all care about the government church we all care about the same things we all care about our kids same things we all care about our kids same things we all care about our kids we all care about uh Justice Reform we we all care about uh Justice Reform we we all care about uh Justice Reform we all all these things are commonalities all all these things are commonalities all all these things are commonalities and yet Satan has lied to us and got us and yet Satan has lied to us and got us and yet Satan has lied to us and got us working apart so I guess I'm encouraged working apart so I guess I'm encouraged working apart so I guess I'm encouraged to see these City movements they're to see these City movements they're to see these City movements they're still working it out but they're they're still working it out but they're they're still working it out but they're they're moving along Eric Swanson and Rob Kelly moving along Eric Swanson and Rob Kelly moving along Eric Swanson and Rob Kelly are kind of bringing some of the city are kind of bringing some of the city are kind of bringing some of the city leaders together to say hey what are you leaders together to say hey what are you leaders together to say hey what are you doing in your city this work I don't doing in your city this work I don't doing in your city this work I don't know man I can't get my budget quite know man I can't get my budget quite know man I can't get my budget quite right you know whatever okay let's learn right you know whatever okay let's learn right you know whatever okay let's learn from each other so I think in the years from each other so I think in the years from each other so I think in the years ahead these City movements will be be a ahead these City movements will be be a ahead these City movements will be be a huge service to the cities and it'll be huge service to the cities and it'll be huge service to the cities and it'll be it'll be multi-denominational it'll be it'll be multi-denominational it'll be it'll be multi-denominational it'll be business people it'll be the whole body business people it'll be the whole body business people it'll be the whole body coming together U because God even uses coming together U because God even uses coming together U because God even uses people who aren't his people who serve people who aren't his people who serve people who aren't his people who serve him God still uses people and Gifts him God still uses people and Gifts him God still uses people and Gifts people who never give their heart to the people who never give their heart to the people who never give their heart to the Lord right but he gifted them with Lord right but he gifted them with Lord right but he gifted them with Incredible talents and we can use those Incredible talents and we can use those Incredible talents and we can use those talents now obviously we're still gonna talents now obviously we're still gonna talents now obviously we're still gonna as a city Gospel Movement we're still as a city Gospel Movement we're still as a city Gospel Movement we're still going to tell people about Jesus that's going to tell people about Jesus that's going to tell people about Jesus that's going to happen at some point but you going to happen at some point but you going to happen at some point but you some you got to serve people so how do some you got to serve people so how do some you got to serve people so how do we serve people well and how do we do we serve people well and how do we do we serve people well and how do we do that across denominations the this is that across denominations the this is that across denominations the this is the great hope I have that I see the great hope I have that I see the great hope I have that I see happening on the ground and so uh I'm happening on the ground and so uh I'm happening on the ground and so uh I'm sure there's lots of other ways Carrie sure there's lots of other ways Carrie sure there's lots of other ways Carrie and I'm not a church historian and all and I'm not a church historian and all and I'm not a church historian and all that but that's that's one thing I see that but that's that's one thing I see that but that's that's one thing I see that excites me well if there's one big

that excites me well if there's one big that excites me well if there's one big initiative over the last few years that initiative over the last few years that initiative over the last few years that was supposed to be unifying and your was supposed to be unifying and your was supposed to be unifying and your family had a big role in it it's the he family had a big role in it it's the he family had a big role in it it's the he gets us campaign and you know I got some gets us campaign and you know I got some gets us campaign and you know I got some early sneak peeks into it personally early sneak peeks into it personally early sneak peeks into it personally I'll put my cards on the table I thought I'll put my cards on the table I thought I'll put my cards on the table I thought it was brilliant wonderful inspiring and it was brilliant wonderful inspiring and it was brilliant wonderful inspiring and I thought it would be I thought it would be I thought it would be unifying I was a little bit wrong there unifying I was a little bit wrong there unifying I was a little bit wrong there was criticism on the right criticism on was criticism on the right criticism on was criticism on the right criticism on the left and I'm like what is happening the left and I'm like what is happening the left and I'm like what is happening I'd love to get your thoughts on the I'd love to get your thoughts on the I'd love to get your thoughts on the reaction to the he gets us campaign yeah reaction to the he gets us campaign yeah reaction to the he gets us campaign yeah I think no matter what you do you're I think no matter what you do you're I think no matter what you do you're gonna get criticism Carrie but overall gonna get criticism Carrie but overall gonna get criticism Carrie but overall we've got incredible support and a year we've got incredible support and a year we've got incredible support and a year as it goes along it gets more and more as it goes along it gets more and more as it goes along it gets more and more yeah he gets this campaign started when yeah he gets this campaign started when yeah he gets this campaign started when my dad in February of 2021 asked me a my dad in February of 2021 asked me a my dad in February of 2021 asked me a question he says Mark how did the question he says Mark how did the question he says Mark how did the greatest love story of all time become greatest love story of all time become greatest love story of all time become known as a hate group so that is known as a hate group so that is known as a hate group so that is starting to happen in our country and so starting to happen in our country and so starting to happen in our country and so uh and he said is there any way we could uh and he said is there any way we could uh and he said is there any way we could use media we've tried so much my dad's use media we've tried so much my dad's use media we've tried so much my dad's 83 he has 47 family members between my 83 he has 47 family members between my 83 he has 47 family members between my mom and dad there's now the two shall mom and dad there's now the two shall mom and dad there's now the two shall become one no the two shall become 47 become one no the two shall become 47 become one no the two shall become 47 there 47 off that tree and we all live there 47 off that tree and we all live there 47 off that tree and we all live in Oklahoma City right and he's not you in Oklahoma City right and he's not you in Oklahoma City right and he's not you can't argue that he's leaving the can't argue that he's leaving the can't argue that he's leaving the country in a better position country in a better position country in a better position spiritually the spiritual health of our spiritually the spiritual health of our spiritually the spiritual health of our country than when he got it and that's country than when he got it and that's country than when he got it and that's kind of Grievous because you kind of kind of Grievous because you kind of kind of Grievous because you kind of want to leave things better for your want to leave things better for your want to leave things better for your kids and your grandkids so I thought kids and your grandkids so I thought kids and your grandkids so I thought well maybe we we got a ground game maybe well maybe we we got a ground game maybe well maybe we we got a ground game maybe we need an air game maybe we need to we need an air game maybe we need to we need an air game maybe we need to talk about Jesus in a different way so talk about Jesus in a different way so talk about Jesus in a different way so we did research I said if you'll give me we did research I said if you'll give me we did research I said if you'll give me five months I'll do it by Christmas and five months I'll do it by Christmas and five months I'll do it by Christmas and so we did research and so we really

so we did research and so we really so we did research and so we really focused on a certain area that this one focused on a certain area that this one focused on a certain area that this one campaign what we call sparely open campaign what we call sparely open campaign what we call sparely open Skeptics about 24% of Americas Americans Skeptics about 24% of Americas Americans Skeptics about 24% of Americas Americans would fall under spiritually open would fall under spiritually open would fall under spiritually open Skeptics um they're not agnostic they're Skeptics um they're not agnostic they're Skeptics um they're not agnostic they're not atheist uh they're open to something not atheist uh they're open to something not atheist uh they're open to something spiritual they know there's something spiritual they know there's something spiritual they know there's something out there they feel something they're out there they feel something they're out there they feel something they're very mind oriented uh and so we said very mind oriented uh and so we said very mind oriented uh and so we said okay that's our target audience let's go okay that's our target audience let's go okay that's our target audience let's go learn them let's talk to them and let's learn them let's talk to them and let's learn them let's talk to them and let's ask them before we even start we played ask them before we even start we played ask them before we even start we played out four questions um does Jesus love out four questions um does Jesus love out four questions um does Jesus love you is Jesus a worthy example to follow you is Jesus a worthy example to follow you is Jesus a worthy example to follow do you want to read your Bible and one do you want to read your Bible and one do you want to read your Bible and one other one I just forgot off the top of other one I just forgot off the top of other one I just forgot off the top of my head but about then we asked them do my head but about then we asked them do my head but about then we asked them do you strongly agree agree disagree or you strongly agree agree disagree or you strongly agree agree disagree or strongly disagree and about 20% would strongly disagree and about 20% would strongly disagree and about 20% would strongly disagree yeah Jesus is a good strongly disagree yeah Jesus is a good strongly disagree yeah Jesus is a good man a good wor to follow Christians I I man a good wor to follow Christians I I man a good wor to follow Christians I I don't like Christians I don't like don't like Christians I don't like don't like Christians I don't like church but Jesus yeah he he he so but church but Jesus yeah he he he so but church but Jesus yeah he he he so but but 20% would say that I'm almost all but 20% would say that I'm almost all but 20% would say that I'm almost all four those questions I mean some was 18 four those questions I mean some was 18 four those questions I mean some was 18 some 22 but average about 20% so we had some 22 but average about 20% so we had some 22 but average about 20% so we had our bench line so then we started our bench line so then we started our bench line so then we started showing these commercials and we still showing these commercials and we still showing these commercials and we still today interview 800 people survey 800 today interview 800 people survey 800 today interview 800 people survey 800 people every every week to see what people every every week to see what people every every week to see what their feelings are if they've seen that their feelings are if they've seen that their feelings are if they've seen that he gets us at we first identify that he gets us at we first identify that he gets us at we first identify that have you seen he gets we say have you have you seen he gets we say have you have you seen he gets we say have you seen anything a Christian thing in seen anything a Christian thing in seen anything a Christian thing in immedia yeah he gets us all all this immedia yeah he gets us all all this immedia yeah he gets us all all this commercial if they answer positive to commercial if they answer positive to commercial if they answer positive to that and they know what he gets us is that and they know what he gets us is that and they know what he gets us is when we ask him those same questions when we ask him those same questions when we ask him those same questions they answer at 30% so their attitudes they answer at 30% so their attitudes they answer at 30% so their attitudes have changed they actually strongly have changed they actually strongly have changed they actually strongly agree that Jesus a worthy example so agree that Jesus a worthy example so agree that Jesus a worthy example so went from 20 to 30 now that's attitude

went from 20 to 30 now that's attitude went from 20 to 30 now that's attitude change all right wow this is a long game change all right wow this is a long game change all right wow this is a long game right now there are also actions they've right now there are also actions they've right now there are also actions they've had 400,000 people go to U ver and read had 400,000 people go to U ver and read had 400,000 people go to U ver and read a reading plan now the criticis comes if a reading plan now the criticis comes if a reading plan now the criticis comes if you want us to get people converted you want us to get people converted you want us to get people converted overnight that doesn't happen for the overnight that doesn't happen for the overnight that doesn't happen for the most part but we know that's not going most part but we know that's not going most part but we know that's not going to happen they're not buying they're to happen they're not buying they're to happen they're not buying they're kicking tires so what we try to say is kicking tires so what we try to say is kicking tires so what we try to say is we trying to nurture the Explorers these we trying to nurture the Explorers these we trying to nurture the Explorers these people have raised their hands online people have raised their hands online people have raised their hands online and said I want to know more about Jesus and said I want to know more about Jesus and said I want to know more about Jesus all right that doesn't mean are you all right that doesn't mean are you all right that doesn't mean are you ready for the sinner's prayer they're ready for the sinner's prayer they're ready for the sinner's prayer they're probably not all right so how do you be probably not all right so how do you be probably not all right so how do you be sensitive that nurture means time so sensitive that nurture means time so sensitive that nurture means time so what we're trying to say is who can what we're trying to say is who can what we're trying to say is who can nurture the Explorer and spend time with nurture the Explorer and spend time with nurture the Explorer and spend time with them them them they may have been hurt at the church they may have been hurt at the church they may have been hurt at the church it's going to take a while to get them it's going to take a while to get them it's going to take a while to get them there and so we think that Jesus said there and so we think that Jesus said there and so we think that Jesus said follow me so our goal that he gets us follow me so our goal that he gets us follow me so our goal that he gets us our mission statement there is that we our mission statement there is that we our mission statement there is that we invite all people one step closer to invite all people one step closer to invite all people one step closer to Jesus from wherever they're at okay that Jesus from wherever they're at okay that Jesus from wherever they're at okay that means me how do you how do you how did means me how do you how do you how did means me how do you how do you how did you handle the criticism that came in you handle the criticism that came in you handle the criticism that came in how do you process something like that I how do you process something like that I how do you process something like that I imagine at some level it was a imagine at some level it was a imagine at some level it was a surprise yeah yeah you're surprised um surprise yeah yeah you're surprised um surprise yeah yeah you're surprised um I've just kind of learned I think over I've just kind of learned I think over I've just kind of learned I think over time that you just you just keep going time that you just you just keep going time that you just you just keep going on I you know if there's some person on I you know if there's some person on I you know if there's some person that I knew well or you know was talking that I knew well or you know was talking that I knew well or you know was talking to I I would call those people and just to I I would call those people and just to I I would call those people and just talk to them and try to explain to them talk to them and try to explain to them talk to them and try to explain to them hey I appreciate your heart uh but I hey I appreciate your heart uh but I hey I appreciate your heart uh but I just want you to understand what we're just want you to understand what we're just want you to understand what we're trying to do and that kind of gave him a trying to do and that kind of gave him a trying to do and that kind of gave him a little context because you know the the little context because you know the the little context because you know the the commercials come out of nowhere and all

commercials come out of nowhere and all commercials come out of nowhere and all that that's why I think time's our best that that's why I think time's our best that that's why I think time's our best friend so as far as media trying to you friend so as far as media trying to you friend so as far as media trying to you know go back out of media zero nothing know go back out of media zero nothing know go back out of media zero nothing there I felt like is necessary I just there I felt like is necessary I just there I felt like is necessary I just think time's our best friend think time's our best friend think time's our best friend the good news is the audience that we're the good news is the audience that we're the good news is the audience that we're trying to meet and that we're speaking trying to meet and that we're speaking trying to meet and that we're speaking to totally gets what we're trying to do to totally gets what we're trying to do to totally gets what we're trying to do so then you have others that are early so then you have others that are early so then you have others that are early adopters and then there others that are adopters and then there others that are adopters and then there others that are starting to come on and say wow we're starting to come on and say wow we're starting to come on and say wow we're starting to understand what you're doing starting to understand what you're doing starting to understand what you're doing now this makes sense to us wow we have now this makes sense to us wow we have now this makes sense to us wow we have people coming to our church asking people coming to our church asking people coming to our church asking questions and so uh we felt like that questions and so uh we felt like that questions and so uh we felt like that time would be our best friend will we time would be our best friend will we time would be our best friend will we get rid of all critics no there will get rid of all critics no there will get rid of all critics no there will never be a day that you satisfy never be a day that you satisfy never be a day that you satisfy everybody we have quite a bit of everybody we have quite a bit of everybody we have quite a bit of diversity but there's quite a bit of diversity but there's quite a bit of diversity but there's quite a bit of momentum and we're building a team we're momentum and we're building a team we're momentum and we're building a team we're some errors okay some places that we some errors okay some places that we some errors okay some places that we could have done better make sure that could have done better make sure that could have done better make sure that the church understands what we're doing the church understands what we're doing the church understands what we're doing how do we share what we're doing and so how do we share what we're doing and so how do we share what we're doing and so we've learned some stuff so I'm not we've learned some stuff so I'm not we've learned some stuff so I'm not saying we didn't make any mistakes uh saying we didn't make any mistakes uh saying we didn't make any mistakes uh we're proud of the commercials that came we're proud of the commercials that came we're proud of the commercials that came out we're proud of what's been able to out we're proud of what's been able to out we're proud of what's been able to go we're proud of what been able to the go we're proud of what been able to the go we're proud of what been able to the what's happened with the audience that what's happened with the audience that what's happened with the audience that were trying to reach those things have were trying to reach those things have were trying to reach those things have all been success and why we're going to all been success and why we're going to all been success and why we're going to continue to do this in the years ahead continue to do this in the years ahead continue to do this in the years ahead uh but uh but anyway there's as far as uh but uh but anyway there's as far as uh but uh but anyway there's as far as media you know I I don't respond on media you know I I don't respond on media you know I I don't respond on those on those is yeah so we talked those on those is yeah so we talked those on those is yeah so we talked about a lot of the highs we all have about a lot of the highs we all have about a lot of the highs we all have tough days uh you've got a new book out tough days uh you've got a new book out tough days uh you've got a new book out we'll uh talk about in just a minute but we'll uh talk about in just a minute but we'll uh talk about in just a minute but you talk about wounds what you've you talk about wounds what you've you talk about wounds what you've learned about from your wounds I'd love learned about from your wounds I'd love learned about from your wounds I'd love for you to describe like a loow in for you to describe like a loow in for you to describe like a loow in Ministry a low in leadership or you know Ministry a low in leadership or you know Ministry a low in leadership or you know just uh we all have favorite failures

just uh we all have favorite failures just uh we all have favorite failures what what is something that happened in what what is something that happened in what what is something that happened in your life that you're kind of like oh your life that you're kind of like oh your life that you're kind of like oh that was a hard that was a hard that was a hard season yeah man answer are a little more season yeah man answer are a little more season yeah man answer are a little more General than you want so you can ask it General than you want so you can ask it General than you want so you can ask it again how about that yeah yeah you I again how about that yeah yeah you I again how about that yeah yeah you I professionally I'm I'm GNA talk professionally I'm I'm GNA talk professionally I'm I'm GNA talk professionally now because even what I professionally now because even what I professionally now because even what I do in Ministry is part of my profession do in Ministry is part of my profession do in Ministry is part of my profession right in in these Ministry inv right in in these Ministry inv right in in these Ministry inv involvements I I always prayed one I've involvements I I always prayed one I've involvements I I always prayed one I've always prayed one prayer probably for 15 always prayed one prayer probably for 15 always prayed one prayer probably for 15 years each morning I prayed it again years each morning I prayed it again years each morning I prayed it again this morning it's Luke 10 and2 L 10 L this morning it's Luke 10 and2 L 10 L this morning it's Luke 10 and2 L 10 L luk 10 and two tells us how to pray luk 10 and two tells us how to pray luk 10 and two tells us how to pray actually it says the Harvest is actually it says the Harvest is actually it says the Harvest is plentiful but the Harvest hands are few plentiful but the Harvest hands are few plentiful but the Harvest hands are few pray for Harvest hands so for me that's pray for Harvest hands so for me that's pray for Harvest hands so for me that's always been my prayer Lord send me the always been my prayer Lord send me the always been my prayer Lord send me the right people whether it's at Mardell right people whether it's at Mardell right people whether it's at Mardell whether it's at Hobby Lobby Bible whether it's at Hobby Lobby Bible whether it's at Hobby Lobby Bible translation or work with the translation or work with the translation or work with the chosen work with he gets us send us the chosen work with he gets us send us the chosen work with he gets us send us the right people so the hard days are when right people so the hard days are when right people so the hard days are when somebody embezzles for you you've prayed somebody embezzles for you you've prayed somebody embezzles for you you've prayed for people you've got people you entrust for people you've got people you entrust for people you've got people you entrust people and all of a sudden you get this people and all of a sudden you get this people and all of a sudden you get this phone call and find out embezzl what's phone call and find out embezzl what's phone call and find out embezzl what's happened or or one of your employees happened or or one of your employees happened or or one of your employees dies or one of their family dies or you dies or one of their family dies or you dies or one of their family dies or you have to fire somebody so all my low days have to fire somebody so all my low days have to fire somebody so all my low days have to do around that happening because have to do around that happening because have to do around that happening because yes I try to hire as best I can I want yes I try to hire as best I can I want yes I try to hire as best I can I want the right people and I God has sent me the right people and I God has sent me the right people and I God has sent me some phenomenal people the only reason some phenomenal people the only reason some phenomenal people the only reason I'm here is because God has sent me I'm here is because God has sent me I'm here is because God has sent me phenomenal people one of the things that phenomenal people one of the things that phenomenal people one of the things that really kept powerful to me was by Craig really kept powerful to me was by Craig really kept powerful to me was by Craig roelle when he said he's obsessed with roelle when he said he's obsessed with roelle when he said he's obsessed with empowering the right people and I love empowering the right people and I love empowering the right people and I love that I love empowering the right people that I love empowering the right people that I love empowering the right people I don't have to be the guy up front I I don't have to be the guy up front I I don't have to be the guy up front I don't have to lead everything I actually

don't have to lead everything I actually don't have to lead everything I actually enjoy seeing the team win and so uh when enjoy seeing the team win and so uh when enjoy seeing the team win and so uh when one of the teammates doesn't make it one of the teammates doesn't make it one of the teammates doesn't make it that's a bad day for me and so and I've that's a bad day for me and so and I've that's a bad day for me and so and I've had those and so I've had those yeah you had those and so I've had those yeah you had those and so I've had those yeah you know it it wasn't surprising when you know it it wasn't surprising when you know it it wasn't surprising when you said embezzlement of course you know said embezzlement of course you know said embezzlement of course you know when you have a family like yours and when you have a family like yours and when you have a family like yours and success like yours it's not surprising success like yours it's not surprising success like yours it's not surprising that it might attract a couple of Bad that it might attract a couple of Bad that it might attract a couple of Bad actors but uh I guess I'm naive enough actors but uh I guess I'm naive enough actors but uh I guess I'm naive enough not to have predicted that answer um not to have predicted that answer um not to have predicted that answer um yeah how do you how do you protect what yeah how do you how do you protect what yeah how do you how do you protect what God is building because your dad maybe God is building because your dad maybe God is building because your dad maybe your family has signed the Warren your family has signed the Warren your family has signed the Warren Buffett pledge you know to give away at Buffett pledge you know to give away at Buffett pledge you know to give away at least half of your income etc etc but least half of your income etc etc but least half of your income etc etc but what are some guidelines because there what are some guidelines because there what are some guidelines because there are some people listening to this are some people listening to this are some people listening to this leading very significant causes who leading very significant causes who leading very significant causes who might be struggling with with you know might be struggling with with you know might be struggling with with you know I'm a very trusting person I'm sure lots I'm a very trusting person I'm sure lots I'm a very trusting person I'm sure lots of listeners are trusting people is of listeners are trusting people is of listeners are trusting people is there any radar you've developed for there any radar you've developed for there any radar you've developed for detecting the bad apples ahead of time detecting the bad apples ahead of time detecting the bad apples ahead of time or does it always seem to be a a or does it always seem to be a a or does it always seem to be a a surprise no it's always a surprise I surprise no it's always a surprise I surprise no it's always a surprise I mean you try as best you can to hire the mean you try as best you can to hire the mean you try as best you can to hire the right people you go look the resumés you right people you go look the resumés you right people you go look the resumés you talk to references but it it just it talk to references but it it just it talk to references but it it just it still happens we have humans and still happens we have humans and still happens we have humans and situations happens their life things situations happens their life things situations happens their life things change and again sometimes it's a death change and again sometimes it's a death change and again sometimes it's a death you know those things happen those are you know those things happen those are you know those things happen those are bad things that they didn't do now there bad things that they didn't do now there bad things that they didn't do now there there's some where where they made they there's some where where they made they there's some where where they made they made their decisions uh to do those at made their decisions uh to do those at made their decisions uh to do those at another level the family level for us we another level the family level for us we another level the family level for us we have the green uh stewardship trust so

have the green uh stewardship trust so have the green uh stewardship trust so who stewards this I mean my dad is still who stewards this I mean my dad is still who stewards this I mean my dad is still the CEO he's been the CEO from day one the CEO he's been the CEO from day one the CEO he's been the CEO from day one he's still the CEO but someday he won't he's still the CEO but someday he won't he's still the CEO but someday he won't be so you also have a I told you there's be so you also have a I told you there's be so you also have a I told you there's two parts there's the wing got two parts there's the wing got two parts there's the wing got leadership and you have governance so leadership and you have governance so leadership and you have governance so who gets on the board is really really who gets on the board is really really who gets on the board is really really important to our family and for the important to our family and for the important to our family and for the future uh good stewardship I mean good future uh good stewardship I mean good future uh good stewardship I mean good governance is not hereditary necessarily governance is not hereditary necessarily governance is not hereditary necessarily and so every year I have to sign a and so every year I have to sign a and so every year I have to sign a statement of faith again do I still statement of faith again do I still statement of faith again do I still believe this do I still believe this do believe this do I still believe this do believe this do I still believe this do I still believe this so to be on the I still believe this so to be on the I still believe this so to be on the green stewardship trust uh any family green stewardship trust uh any family green stewardship trust uh any family member who's on it and uh it's the only member who's on it and uh it's the only member who's on it and uh it's the only family that's on it because we feel like family that's on it because we feel like family that's on it because we feel like God has given us this business and so God has given us this business and so God has given us this business and so it's a green Steward we Steward it now it's a green Steward we Steward it now it's a green Steward we Steward it now there's a Hobby Lobby board that that there's a Hobby Lobby board that that there's a Hobby Lobby board that that has non-family members I mean non-f has non-family members I mean non-f has non-family members I mean non-f family members on it but above that is a family members on it but above that is a family members on it but above that is a scre show trust so if the board some gu scre show trust so if the board some gu scre show trust so if the board some gu decided hey we think we ought to open on decided hey we think we ought to open on decided hey we think we ought to open on Sundays because we make more money the Sundays because we make more money the Sundays because we make more money the green Stewart Trust might cancel that green Stewart Trust might cancel that green Stewart Trust might cancel that out say no that's a core value for the out say no that's a core value for the out say no that's a core value for the family we want people to be home with family we want people to be home with family we want people to be home with their families so we're not opening on their families so we're not opening on their families so we're not opening on Sundays but besides that it's run down Sundays but besides that it's run down Sundays but besides that it's run down here but this green stt is the ultimate here but this green stt is the ultimate here but this green stt is the ultimate Authority and those are family members Authority and those are family members Authority and those are family members and uh so they have to sign a statement and uh so they have to sign a statement and uh so they have to sign a statement of faith every year and so that's a way of faith every year and so that's a way of faith every year and so that's a way to make sure that you keep those values to make sure that you keep those values to make sure that you keep those values in place uh over over hopefully in place uh over over hopefully in place uh over over hopefully Generations you know I how long the Generations you know I how long the Generations you know I how long the Lord's going to ter we don't know so you Lord's going to ter we don't know so you Lord's going to ter we don't know so you have to assume he's going to car for a have to assume he's going to car for a have to assume he's going to car for a long long time so how do you put things long long time so how do you put things long long time so how do you put things in place I'm sure 200 years ago they in place I'm sure 200 years ago they in place I'm sure 200 years ago they thought they we weren't gonna make it to thought they we weren't gonna make it to thought they we weren't gonna make it to today right we did we made it 200 more today right we did we made it 200 more today right we did we made it 200 more years and we make it make it 200 more years and we make it make it 200 more years and we make it make it 200 more years so so you've co-authored a new years so so you've co-authored a new years so so you've co-authored a new book on learning to be loved and there

book on learning to be loved and there book on learning to be loved and there are a lot of insights in that uh one of are a lot of insights in that uh one of are a lot of insights in that uh one of the things you talk about though is how the things you talk about though is how the things you talk about though is how you've grown closer to God through you've grown closer to God through you've grown closer to God through can you can you unpack that a little bit can you can you unpack that a little bit can you can you unpack that a little bit for us Mark yeah yeah David Bowden came for us Mark yeah yeah David Bowden came for us Mark yeah yeah David Bowden came to me and he wrote about 80% of the book to me and he wrote about 80% of the book to me and he wrote about 80% of the book and asked me to write stories that as we and asked me to write stories that as we and asked me to write stories that as we talked about earlier I talked about talked about earlier I talked about talked about earlier I talked about gateways of intimacy so I have 31 gateways of intimacy so I have 31 gateways of intimacy so I have 31 gateways of intimacy and he said would gateways of intimacy and he said would gateways of intimacy and he said would you write stories I'm gonna write a book you write stories I'm gonna write a book you write stories I'm gonna write a book I'm gonna take 20 of your gateways I'm I'm gonna take 20 of your gateways I'm I'm gonna take 20 of your gateways I'm gonna write a book about it and you're gonna write a book about it and you're gonna write a book about it and you're gonna write 20 stories I said okay I gonna write 20 stories I said okay I gonna write 20 stories I said okay I think I can do that usually I get my think I can do that usually I get my think I can do that usually I get my books on eight and half by 11 sheet of books on eight and half by 11 sheet of books on eight and half by 11 sheet of paper that's about as far as I can write paper that's about as far as I can write paper that's about as far as I can write um but one of those is wounds which a um but one of those is wounds which a um but one of those is wounds which a little bit unusual I had to get into little bit unusual I had to get into little bit unusual I had to get into with guys through with guys through with guys through wounds um and my story is that I got wounds um and my story is that I got wounds um and my story is that I got married as I said 42 years ago to my married as I said 42 years ago to my married as I said 42 years ago to my wife Diana who I met in ninth grade and wife Diana who I met in ninth grade and wife Diana who I met in ninth grade and uh we had her ups and down in our uh we had her ups and down in our uh we had her ups and down in our marriage and uh then I had kids and they marriage and uh then I had kids and they marriage and uh then I had kids and they started getting married and I was having started getting married and I was having started getting married and I was having some of the same problems with kids some of the same problems with kids some of the same problems with kids getting married in I'm like man I gotta getting married in I'm like man I gotta getting married in I'm like man I gotta get somebody to help these guys I got my get somebody to help these guys I got my get somebody to help these guys I got my wife that I I still got this issue wife that I I still got this issue wife that I I still got this issue that's nagging along and now I've got that's nagging along and now I've got that's nagging along and now I've got some of my kids and a couple of my kids some of my kids and a couple of my kids some of my kids and a couple of my kids and and their spouses I'm like I guess and and their spouses I'm like I guess and and their spouses I'm like I guess somebody fix these guys so I went and somebody fix these guys so I went and somebody fix these guys so I went and got somebody to come and fix them and uh got somebody to come and fix them and uh got somebody to come and fix them and uh they came in they talked about trust they came in they talked about trust they came in they talked about trust which is something that I think I'm I which is something that I think I'm I which is something that I think I'm I have a strength in some reason I'm able have a strength in some reason I'm able have a strength in some reason I'm able to build trust with people you know I to build trust with people you know I to build trust with people you know I built trust in the Bible translation you built trust in the Bible translation you built trust in the Bible translation you know area so I'm a trust Builder I'm know area so I'm a trust Builder I'm know area so I'm a trust Builder I'm good at that you know and so we talked good at that you know and so we talked good at that you know and so we talked about trust so I'm feeling pretty good about trust so I'm feeling pretty good about trust so I'm feeling pretty good and then he says uh how about emotional and then he says uh how about emotional and then he says uh how about emotional trust I said emotional trust uh I'm not

trust I said emotional trust uh I'm not trust I said emotional trust uh I'm not even sure I know what you're talking even sure I know what you're talking even sure I know what you're talking about what's that butar do people trust about what's that butar do people trust about what's that butar do people trust you with their emotions you with their emotions you with their emotions and so I'm now now I'm backing out going and so I'm now now I'm backing out going and so I'm now now I'm backing out going I uh let's let's cancel the meeting you I uh let's let's cancel the meeting you I uh let's let's cancel the meeting you know I gotta figure out what's going on know I gotta figure out what's going on know I gotta figure out what's going on here man you know and he says well when here man you know and he says well when here man you know and he says well when your wife brings her emotions to her your wife brings her emotions to her your wife brings her emotions to her what do you do I said well and the truth what do you do I said well and the truth what do you do I said well and the truth is I try to fix them right because ever is I try to fix them right because ever is I try to fix them right because ever since I was 19 I've been in charge right since I was 19 I've been in charge right since I was 19 I've been in charge right because I I ran my own business at 19 because I I ran my own business at 19 because I I ran my own business at 19 you're a teenager you got people older you're a teenager you got people older you're a teenager you got people older than you they come in hey the toilets than you they come in hey the toilets than you they come in hey the toilets don't work that you know whatever you're don't work that you know whatever you're don't work that you know whatever you're you're always fixing problems so my wife you're always fixing problems so my wife you're always fixing problems so my wife brought me her problems I assume she brought me her problems I assume she brought me her problems I assume she wanted me to fix them I'm familiar with wanted me to fix them I'm familiar with wanted me to fix them I'm familiar with that problem yeah over time they kind of that problem yeah over time they kind of that problem yeah over time they kind of shut down you see what I'm saying and so shut down you see what I'm saying and so shut down you see what I'm saying and so no no no what your wife wants you to do no no no what your wife wants you to do no no no what your wife wants you to do is get down in the well with her I'm is get down in the well with her I'm is get down in the well with her I'm going what why why would I go get down going what why why would I go get down going what why why would I go get down in that well with her she just wants you in that well with her she just wants you in that well with her she just wants you to understand her emotions and feel her to understand her emotions and feel her to understand her emotions and feel her emotions and understand that they're emotions and understand that they're emotions and understand that they're real and I'm like you gotta be kidding real and I'm like you gotta be kidding real and I'm like you gotta be kidding me I got to go down in there and feel me I got to go down in there and feel me I got to go down in there and feel and not fix it he says yep and so anyway and not fix it he says yep and so anyway and not fix it he says yep and so anyway the deep wound that I gave my family and the deep wound that I gave my family and the deep wound that I gave my family and uh if you're artistic in my family it uh if you're artistic in my family it uh if you're artistic in my family it was the worst because they're the most was the worst because they're the most was the worst because they're the most emotive right and I didn't understand emotive right and I didn't understand emotive right and I didn't understand the artistic heart and so I said you the artistic heart and so I said you the artistic heart and so I said you know get up and get over it I never know get up and get over it I never know get up and get over it I never allowed I was not a safe place for their allowed I was not a safe place for their allowed I was not a safe place for their emotions to trust their emotions so it's emotions to trust their emotions so it's emotions to trust their emotions so it's much easier for now so when my wife's much easier for now so when my wife's much easier for now so when my wife's complaining about something I don't fix complaining about something I don't fix complaining about something I don't fix it or said well they were probably

it or said well they were probably it or said well they were probably didn't mean that they probably you know didn't mean that they probably you know didn't mean that they probably you know I always explained it away you know I always explained it away you know I always explained it away you know don't guys usually it's guys that do don't guys usually it's guys that do don't guys usually it's guys that do this don't do that right go down there this don't do that right go down there this don't do that right go down there in with her and just ex hear her in with her and just ex hear her in with her and just ex hear her feelings and actually that will bring feelings and actually that will bring feelings and actually that will bring healing to her and it's easier for me healing to her and it's easier for me healing to her and it's easier for me because I don't to fix it you start because I don't to fix it you start because I don't to fix it you start trying to figure out a way to fix it and trying to figure out a way to fix it and trying to figure out a way to fix it and so for me it got a whole lot easier and so for me it got a whole lot easier and so for me it got a whole lot easier and it's got a much closer relationship with it's got a much closer relationship with it's got a much closer relationship with my wife going back with my children and my wife going back with my children and my wife going back with my children and building that and so now that's a wound building that and so now that's a wound building that and so now that's a wound I had God is healing me that wound and I had God is healing me that wound and I had God is healing me that wound and God tells us he heals us of our wounds God tells us he heals us of our wounds God tells us he heals us of our wounds so that we can heal others so that's why so that we can heal others so that's why so that we can heal others so that's why I'm willing to say it's embarrassing I I'm willing to say it's embarrassing I I'm willing to say it's embarrassing I don't like to share that I'd rather s don't like to share that I'd rather s don't like to share that I'd rather s success stories to be honest with you success stories to be honest with you success stories to be honest with you but I'll roll up my sleeves and show you but I'll roll up my sleeves and show you but I'll roll up my sleeves and show you a big old scar that I got on my arm but a big old scar that I got on my arm but a big old scar that I got on my arm but I also show you that I got healing and I also show you that I got healing and I also show you that I got healing and God can heal you too so anyway that's God can heal you too so anyway that's God can heal you too so anyway that's how I got intimate with the Lord because how I got intimate with the Lord because how I got intimate with the Lord because I got closer to the Lord through my I got closer to the Lord through my I got closer to the Lord through my wound because he healed that wound and wound because he healed that wound and wound because he healed that wound and now I feel closer to him because of that now I feel closer to him because of that now I feel closer to him because of that that's also allows me to know one of my that's also allows me to know one of my that's also allows me to know one of my Ministries so I tell people that I meet Ministries so I tell people that I meet Ministries so I tell people that I meet I know one of your Ministries go really I know one of your Ministries go really I know one of your Ministries go really I go yeah your deepest wound because the I go yeah your deepest wound because the I go yeah your deepest wound because the deepest wound is where the flower grows deepest wound is where the flower grows deepest wound is where the flower grows and I don't know what your deep wound is and I don't know what your deep wound is and I don't know what your deep wound is and you may not have healing yet so and you may not have healing yet so and you may not have healing yet so you're not a you're not a Healer until you're not a you're not a Healer until you're not a you're not a Healer until you're healed so whatever your deep you're healed so whatever your deep you're healed so whatever your deep wound is in life says lie to you and G wound is in life says lie to you and G wound is in life says lie to you and G you've got a deep wound let's find you've got a deep wound let's find you've got a deep wound let's find healing for that but once you get that healing for that but once you get that healing for that but once you get that healing it is now one of your Ministries healing it is now one of your Ministries healing it is now one of your Ministries it may not be your lead Ministry I don't it may not be your lead Ministry I don't it may not be your lead Ministry I don't know exactly how God to use it but I'm know exactly how God to use it but I'm know exactly how God to use it but I'm telling you it's one of your telling you it's one of your telling you it's one of your Ministries you know I'm I'm familiar Ministries you know I'm I'm familiar Ministries you know I'm I'm familiar with that Dynamic and for me it's been with that Dynamic and for me it's been with that Dynamic and for me it's been like the last 15 years or so similar

like the last 15 years or so similar like the last 15 years or so similar timeline where I've had to learn I'm timeline where I've had to learn I'm timeline where I've had to learn I'm fixing everything I've been in charge fixing everything I've been in charge fixing everything I've been in charge for most of my life as well uh do you for most of my life as well uh do you for most of my life as well uh do you know to the extent that you're know to the extent that you're know to the extent that you're comfortable sharing Mart where that may comfortable sharing Mart where that may comfortable sharing Mart where that may have developed along the way do you have have developed along the way do you have have developed along the way do you have insight into how that was a blind spot insight into how that was a blind spot insight into how that was a blind spot for you for so long as it was for me for you for so long as it was for me for you for so long as it was for me yeah you know I you know I'm quite left yeah you know I you know I'm quite left yeah you know I you know I'm quite left brain math is what I do you know I'm brain math is what I do you know I'm brain math is what I do you know I'm just good at that that's just just that just good at that that's just just that just good at that that's just just that way God doesn't give us all the gifts way God doesn't give us all the gifts way God doesn't give us all the gifts you know so I for sure yeah us I said I you know so I for sure yeah us I said I you know so I for sure yeah us I said I wasn't creative but I changed I am wasn't creative but I changed I am wasn't creative but I changed I am creative I have creative ideas but I'm creative I have creative ideas but I'm creative I have creative ideas but I'm not artistic and so and OBS T to marry not artistic and so and OBS T to marry not artistic and so and OBS T to marry each other so I was very strong in this each other so I was very strong in this each other so I was very strong in this area and that's why God gave me my wife area and that's why God gave me my wife area and that's why God gave me my wife right so now she can be emotional she right so now she can be emotional she right so now she can be emotional she actually can see things right she she actually can see things right she she actually can see things right she she knows things about people she's more knows things about people she's more knows things about people she's more intuitive about those things and I need intuitive about those things and I need intuitive about those things and I need her thank the lord it's because a gift her thank the lord it's because a gift her thank the lord it's because a gift that I didn't have so I think it's just that I didn't have so I think it's just that I didn't have so I think it's just my natural bent I just assumed everybody my natural bent I just assumed everybody my natural bent I just assumed everybody was like me and I just didn't take time was like me and I just didn't take time was like me and I just didn't take time to allow myself to think a different way to allow myself to think a different way to allow myself to think a different way until somebody stood me up the eye until somebody stood me up the eye until somebody stood me up the eye somebody I respected right because I somebody I respected right because I somebody I respected right because I brought him in to fix the family and I brought him in to fix the family and I brought him in to fix the family and I got fixed uh so anyway so God knew it got fixed uh so anyway so God knew it got fixed uh so anyway so God knew it took I'm that hard-headed it was I'm took I'm that hard-headed it was I'm took I'm that hard-headed it was I'm that hard-headed that's what it took you that hard-headed that's what it took you that hard-headed that's what it took you know worldclass professional person that know worldclass professional person that know worldclass professional person that would come in that I highly respected so would come in that I highly respected so would come in that I highly respected so because I'd listen to him you know when because I'd listen to him you know when because I'd listen to him you know when my wife was trying to tell me she wasn't my wife was trying to tell me she wasn't my wife was trying to tell me she wasn't able to articulate it that way you know able to articulate it that way you know able to articulate it that way you know she just had her emotions and so then she just had her emotions and so then she just had her emotions and so then she just learned to kind of slowly shut she just learned to kind of slowly shut she just learned to kind of slowly shut down and and I didn't want that to down and and I didn't want that to down and and I didn't want that to happen

happen happen so Martin it's been a fascinating so Martin it's been a fascinating so Martin it's been a fascinating conversation and thanks for being so conversation and thanks for being so conversation and thanks for being so personally vulnerable on that point personally vulnerable on that point personally vulnerable on that point anything else that we haven't touched on anything else that we haven't touched on anything else that we haven't touched on that you'd like to share with people that you'd like to share with people that you'd like to share with people listening today wow I think you've done listening today wow I think you've done listening today wow I think you've done pretty good Carrie I love the questions pretty good Carrie I love the questions pretty good Carrie I love the questions thank you for the interview they they're thank you for the interview they they're thank you for the interview they they're very intuitive questions and draw things very intuitive questions and draw things very intuitive questions and draw things out of you so I I think you did a pretty out of you so I I think you did a pretty out of you so I I think you did a pretty good job so well thanks for being so good job so well thanks for being so good job so well thanks for being so open to answering them too so the new open to answering them too so the new open to answering them too so the new book is called learning to be loved it's book is called learning to be loved it's book is called learning to be loved it's with David Bowden it's available with David Bowden it's available with David Bowden it's available everywhere including Mardell bookstores everywhere including Mardell bookstores everywhere including Mardell bookstores plug plug plug okay uh if people were going to find you okay uh if people were going to find you okay uh if people were going to find you on social these days where might you be on social these days where might you be on social these days where might you be active is it LinkedIn none of the above active is it LinkedIn none of the above active is it LinkedIn none of the above yeah I'm gonna Link in there's a website yeah I'm gonna Link in there's a website yeah I'm gonna Link in there's a website markg green.net that has a some of the markg green.net that has a some of the markg green.net that has a some of the like the ghi that I talked about earli like the ghi that I talked about earli like the ghi that I talked about earli just little half page thing they're just little half page thing they're just little half page thing they're totally free just download them or I'll totally free just download them or I'll totally free just download them or I'll mail them to if you want them but markg mail them to if you want them but markg mail them to if you want them but markg green.net if they okay we will uh link green.net if they okay we will uh link green.net if they okay we will uh link to that in the show notes Mart until to that in the show notes Mart until to that in the show notes Mart until next time thank you so much look forward next time thank you so much look forward next time thank you so much look forward to seeing you again soon thank you uh