Why it's SO HARD for Church Leaders to Raise Money with Ramit Sethi

I have tried to raise money and I want I have tried to raise money and I want to give a shout out to anyone who tries to give a shout out to anyone who tries to give a shout out to anyone who tries to raise money for a cause because it is to raise money for a cause because it is to raise money for a cause because it is so hard let me put this way selling so hard let me put this way selling so hard let me put this way selling multi th000 programs was so much easier multi th000 programs was so much easier multi th000 programs was so much easier than getting people to donate $100 than getting people to donate $100 than getting people to donate $100 either donate the money or don't donate either donate the money or don't donate either donate the money or don't donate the money this is the cause I trust it the money this is the cause I trust it the money this is the cause I trust it I'm putting a lot of my own money in I'm putting a lot of my own money in I'm putting a lot of my own money in fact I'm matching money donate or don't fact I'm matching money donate or don't fact I'm matching money donate or don't the way they pulled out a questionnaire the way they pulled out a questionnaire the way they pulled out a questionnaire of 30 questions before they would donate of 30 questions before they would donate of 30 questions before they would donate was actually outrageous and offensive to was actually outrageous and offensive to was actually outrageous and offensive to me welcome to the car newoff leadership me welcome to the car newoff leadership me welcome to the car newoff leadership podcast on YouTube hey today we got a podcast on YouTube hey today we got a podcast on YouTube hey today we got a really exciting episode RIT Sati who really exciting episode RIT Sati who really exciting episode RIT Sati who doesn't do really a lot of church leader doesn't do really a lot of church leader doesn't do really a lot of church leader podcasts in fact I asked him you know podcasts in fact I asked him you know podcasts in fact I asked him you know you're doing hundreds dozens of you're doing hundreds dozens of you're doing hundreds dozens of interviews for this new book he's got interviews for this new book he's got interviews for this new book he's got out how many church leaders podcasts are out how many church leaders podcasts are out how many church leaders podcasts are you talking to and he's like one yours you talking to and he's like one yours you talking to and he's like one yours so you've got an exclusive here with RIT so you've got an exclusive here with RIT so you've got an exclusive here with RIT I followed him for years and today we're I followed him for years and today we're I followed him for years and today we're going to talk about money a lot of going to talk about money a lot of going to talk about money a lot of church leaders struggle with money they church leaders struggle with money they church leaders struggle with money they struggle because they're uncomfortable struggle because they're uncomfortable struggle because they're uncomfortable with the topic maybe you're not winning with the topic maybe you're not winning with the topic maybe you're not winning with money at home or maybe you are but with money at home or maybe you are but with money at home or maybe you are but you just don't know how to talk about it you just don't know how to talk about it you just don't know how to talk about it well we're going to go there we're going well we're going to go there we're going well we're going to go there we're going to talk about how to teach couples in to talk about how to teach couples in to talk about how to teach couples in your church about money we're going to your church about money we're going to your church about money we're going to talk about what to do with a cheap board talk about what to do with a cheap board talk about what to do with a cheap board member and then also why money is so member and then also why money is so member and then also why money is so difficult to raise RIT is a business difficult to raise RIT is a business difficult to raise RIT is a business person who also has uh tried to raise person who also has uh tried to raise person who also has uh tried to raise money for charity and he's like it's way money for charity and he's like it's way money for charity and he's like it's way easier to make millions as a business easier to make millions as a business easier to make millions as a business person than it is to raise money for person than it is to raise money for person than it is to raise money for charity so you're going to enjoy all of

charity so you're going to enjoy all of charity so you're going to enjoy all of that today hey if you're new here like that today hey if you're new here like that today hey if you're new here like subscribe comment and we'll get right to subscribe comment and we'll get right to subscribe comment and we'll get right to my conversation with RIT Sati right my conversation with RIT Sati right my conversation with RIT Sati right after we hear from our sponsors this after we hear from our sponsors this after we hear from our sponsors this episode is brought to you by Glue so episode is brought to you by Glue so episode is brought to you by Glue so you've heard me talk about how texting you've heard me talk about how texting you've heard me talk about how texting saves time and improves communication saves time and improves communication saves time and improves communication but you might be wondering well how can but you might be wondering well how can but you might be wondering well how can you use it in your ministry here are you use it in your ministry here are you use it in your ministry here are three powerful ways texting can help you three powerful ways texting can help you three powerful ways texting can help you save time and engage people better first save time and engage people better first save time and engage people better first you can use it for team communication you can use it for team communication you can use it for team communication it's pretty effortless whether it's it's pretty effortless whether it's it's pretty effortless whether it's full-time staff volunteers event leaders full-time staff volunteers event leaders full-time staff volunteers event leaders or Ministry leaders texting makes or Ministry leaders texting makes or Ministry leaders texting makes communication simple fast and effective communication simple fast and effective communication simple fast and effective second way you can use it is to follow second way you can use it is to follow second way you can use it is to follow up with new visitors every Sunday up with new visitors every Sunday up with new visitors every Sunday especially at Peak Sundays like Easter especially at Peak Sundays like Easter especially at Peak Sundays like Easter Christmas or big series new people walk Christmas or big series new people walk Christmas or big series new people walk through your doors and texting is the through your doors and texting is the through your doors and texting is the best way to connect with them best way to connect with them best way to connect with them meaningfully third you can use it to meaningfully third you can use it to meaningfully third you can use it to stay connected use texting to manage stay connected use texting to manage stay connected use texting to manage prayer requests keep parents in the loop prayer requests keep parents in the loop prayer requests keep parents in the loop about kids ministry and so much more you about kids ministry and so much more you about kids ministry and so much more you can bring all that texting power to your can bring all that texting power to your can bring all that texting power to your church and with glue you get 10,000 church and with glue you get 10,000 church and with glue you get 10,000 texts and three groups free every month texts and three groups free every month texts and three groups free every month that means you can try these strategies that means you can try these strategies that means you can try these strategies at no cost so sign up for glue today at at no cost so sign up for glue today at at no cost so sign up for glue today at glue. usfree texting again that's glue glue. usfree texting again that's glue glue. usfree texting again that's glue g. usfree texting this episode is g. usfree texting this episode is g. usfree texting this episode is brought to you by subsplash the brought to you by subsplash the brought to you by subsplash the beginning of the year is a great time to beginning of the year is a great time to beginning of the year is a great time to evaluate evaluate evaluate where you want your ministry to go in where you want your ministry to go in where you want your ministry to go in the months to come and if your church is

the months to come and if your church is the months to come and if your church is looking to simplify your technology looking to simplify your technology looking to simplify your technology connect your people and make more connect your people and make more connect your people and make more disciples with a platform that scales disciples with a platform that scales disciples with a platform that scales alongside your ministry then subsplash alongside your ministry then subsplash alongside your ministry then subsplash is for you in 2025 and far beyond is for you in 2025 and far beyond is for you in 2025 and far beyond subsplash is the platform made to help subsplash is the platform made to help subsplash is the platform made to help maximize your Church's engagement so maximize your Church's engagement so maximize your Church's engagement so with Innovative mobile apps messaging with Innovative mobile apps messaging with Innovative mobile apps messaging websites streaming groups giving and websites streaming groups giving and websites streaming groups giving and more subsplash puts today most more subsplash puts today most more subsplash puts today most Innovative Church technology into your Innovative Church technology into your Innovative Church technology into your hands so you can focus on Ministry join hands so you can focus on Ministry join hands so you can focus on Ministry join more than 20,000 churches and Ministries more than 20,000 churches and Ministries more than 20,000 churches and Ministries who partner with subsplash to engage who partner with subsplash to engage who partner with subsplash to engage their communities and help their people their communities and help their people their communities and help their people grow spiritually all you need to do is grow spiritually all you need to do is grow spiritually all you need to do is go to subsplash do.com carry schedule a go to subsplash do.com carry schedule a go to subsplash do.com carry schedule a quick no obligation demo and you'll get quick no obligation demo and you'll get quick no obligation demo and you'll get $500 off when you sign up that's $500 off when you sign up that's $500 off when you sign up that's subsplash I'm very excited and we're going to get I'm very excited and we're going to get into principles uh for like money into principles uh for like money into principles uh for like money principles for couples but one of the principles for couples but one of the principles for couples but one of the things I've been fascinated by because things I've been fascinated by because things I've been fascinated by because I've been following you for a long time I've been following you for a long time I've been following you for a long time is you seem to keep Reinventing yourself is you seem to keep Reinventing yourself is you seem to keep Reinventing yourself you've always been the I will teach you you've always been the I will teach you you've always been the I will teach you to be rich guy but I've seen you pivot to be rich guy but I've seen you pivot to be rich guy but I've seen you pivot into like everything from relationship into like everything from relationship into like everything from relationship coaching to different things like that coaching to different things like that coaching to different things like that can you talk about the evolution of 20 can you talk about the evolution of 20 can you talk about the evolution of 20 years in business and let me just say years in business and let me just say years in business and let me just say one more thing first of all congrats on one more thing first of all congrats on one more thing first of all congrats on 20 years in business man that is not 20 years in business man that is not 20 years in business man that is not easy thank you uh but take us through easy thank you uh but take us through easy thank you uh but take us through the The Narrative because we have a lot the The Narrative because we have a lot the The Narrative because we have a lot of entrepreneurial types listening well

of entrepreneurial types listening well of entrepreneurial types listening well 20 years in business in my opinion um 20 years in business in my opinion um 20 years in business in my opinion um there are some people who love to repeat there are some people who love to repeat there are some people who love to repeat the same thing for 20 years and they're the same thing for 20 years and they're the same thing for 20 years and they're really good at it that's not me I love really good at it that's not me I love really good at it that's not me I love to expand topics I love to try different to expand topics I love to try different to expand topics I love to try different things um if I were still talking about things um if I were still talking about things um if I were still talking about the difference between a traditional and the difference between a traditional and the difference between a traditional and Roth IRA today I would not want to be Roth IRA today I would not want to be Roth IRA today I would not want to be doing what I do I would B out of my mind doing what I do I would B out of my mind doing what I do I would B out of my mind so My Philosophy has been get really so My Philosophy has been get really so My Philosophy has been get really good at something document it whether good at something document it whether good at something document it whether it's through a book a course whatever it's through a book a course whatever it's through a book a course whatever something so that people can always have something so that people can always have something so that people can always have access to that library of knowledge and access to that library of knowledge and access to that library of knowledge and then move take one step forward into a then move take one step forward into a then move take one step forward into a different chapter of your life um that different chapter of your life um that different chapter of your life um that has happened through topics such as has happened through topics such as has happened through topics such as careers business money psychology careers business money psychology careers business money psychology they're all related they're all related they're all related they're all related they're all related they're all related they're all one step away they nothing they're all one step away they nothing they're all one step away they nothing crazy in I'm not talking about how to crazy in I'm not talking about how to crazy in I'm not talking about how to make soup but they are slightly make soup but they are slightly make soup but they are slightly different and then also the media in different and then also the media in different and then also the media in which I share so I didn't have a podcast which I share so I didn't have a podcast which I share so I didn't have a podcast for many years I recently started one for many years I recently started one for many years I recently started one enjoying that I started a TV show I you enjoying that I started a TV show I you enjoying that I started a TV show I you know on and on and on and those allow me know on and on and on and those allow me know on and on and on and those allow me to stay fresh and learn uh new tools new to stay fresh and learn uh new tools new to stay fresh and learn uh new tools new ways of reaching ways of reaching ways of reaching people and so you kind of Follow The people and so you kind of Follow The people and so you kind of Follow The Curiosity Trail or how do you decide Curiosity Trail or how do you decide Curiosity Trail or how do you decide what idea is next like what are you what idea is next like what are you what idea is next like what are you going to focus on in this next next going to focus on in this next next going to focus on in this next next season yeah a lot of it is intuitive I season yeah a lot of it is intuitive I season yeah a lot of it is intuitive I mean ultimately after 20 years you mean ultimately after 20 years you mean ultimately after 20 years you really start to trust yourself and you really start to trust yourself and you really start to trust yourself and you at least for me I can tell where there's

at least for me I can tell where there's at least for me I can tell where there's what I call heat where there's something what I call heat where there's something what I call heat where there's something going on something I can feel or I can going on something I can feel or I can going on something I can feel or I can sniff out and sometimes it's as simple sniff out and sometimes it's as simple sniff out and sometimes it's as simple as posting online and getting an as posting online and getting an as posting online and getting an overwhelming response for example overwhelming response for example overwhelming response for example recently uh I posted about people who recently uh I posted about people who recently uh I posted about people who have inherited money you know in America have inherited money you know in America have inherited money you know in America it's this big thing everybody's talking it's this big thing everybody's talking it's this big thing everybody's talking on social media about generational on social media about generational on social media about generational wealth generational wealth which I find wealth generational wealth which I find wealth generational wealth which I find a little absurd but what we don't talk a little absurd but what we don't talk a little absurd but what we don't talk about is the people who actually inherit about is the people who actually inherit about is the people who actually inherit it who are often right now in their late it who are often right now in their late it who are often right now in their late 40s Etc so I ask people hey if you have 40s Etc so I ask people hey if you have 40s Etc so I ask people hey if you have inherited wealth write me back I'll keep inherited wealth write me back I'll keep inherited wealth write me back I'll keep you Anonymous how do you feel about it you Anonymous how do you feel about it you Anonymous how do you feel about it what have your parents paid for ETC I what have your parents paid for ETC I what have your parents paid for ETC I got hundreds of responses within 20 got hundreds of responses within 20 got hundreds of responses within 20 minutes lots of people saying I feel minutes lots of people saying I feel minutes lots of people saying I feel guilty I feel ashamed I never tell guilty I feel ashamed I never tell guilty I feel ashamed I never tell anyone about it but they pay for our anyone about it but they pay for our anyone about it but they pay for our kids private school or they put a huge kids private school or they put a huge kids private school or they put a huge down payment on our house Etc what an down payment on our house Etc what an down payment on our house Etc what an interesting dichotomy that in America we interesting dichotomy that in America we interesting dichotomy that in America we are obsessed with generational wealth are obsessed with generational wealth are obsessed with generational wealth but the very recipients of it feel but the very recipients of it feel but the very recipients of it feel guilty and ashamed that's a potential guilty and ashamed that's a potential guilty and ashamed that's a potential topic for me to dive into over time so topic for me to dive into over time so topic for me to dive into over time so you look for the hot spots you look for you look for the hot spots you look for you look for the hot spots you look for the reactions which is interesting you the reactions which is interesting you the reactions which is interesting you know I just did a webinar earlier today know I just did a webinar earlier today know I just did a webinar earlier today before we jumped on I was telling you before we jumped on I was telling you before we jumped on I was telling you before we we hit out and I was talking before we we hit out and I was talking before we we hit out and I was talking about rationalizing your church budget about rationalizing your church budget about rationalizing your church budget it was pretty pretty technical webinar it was pretty pretty technical webinar it was pretty pretty technical webinar we had lots of people on it and when I we had lots of people on it and when I we had lots of people on it and when I talked about overstaffing which is a talked about overstaffing which is a talked about overstaffing which is a problem a lot of churches have uh and

problem a lot of churches have uh and problem a lot of churches have uh and basically get rid of your B players and basically get rid of your B players and basically get rid of your B players and go with only ba a players the chat lit go with only ba a players the chat lit go with only ba a players the chat lit up and people had a hundred objections up and people had a hundred objections up and people had a hundred objections to it and I'm like we're going to go to it and I'm like we're going to go to it and I'm like we're going to go there in the future they didn't agree there in the future they didn't agree there in the future they didn't agree with you they were like how do I with you they were like how do I with you they were like how do I possibly do this like we we we like we possibly do this like we we we like we possibly do this like we we we like we can't fire anybody or I don't have the can't fire anybody or I don't have the can't fire anybody or I don't have the emotional energy to let like I know I emotional energy to let like I know I emotional energy to let like I know I need to do it I don't have the emotional need to do it I don't have the emotional need to do it I don't have the emotional energy to let a third of my staff go or energy to let a third of my staff go or energy to let a third of my staff go or I can't possibly get my budget for staff I can't possibly get my budget for staff I can't possibly get my budget for staff it's it's what you talk about in terms it's it's what you talk about in terms it's it's what you talk about in terms of fixed costs on a personal budget if of fixed costs on a personal budget if of fixed costs on a personal budget if you generally in church world if you you generally in church world if you you generally in church world if you exceed 35 to 50% of your budget more exceed 35 to 50% of your budget more exceed 35 to 50% of your budget more than that goes to Staffing you have a than that goes to Staffing you have a than that goes to Staffing you have a problem your fixed costs are just too problem your fixed costs are just too problem your fixed costs are just too high very interesting very similar to high very interesting very similar to high very interesting very similar to what I see when I work with couples um what I see when I work with couples um what I see when I work with couples um you know I bring them on the podcast I you know I bring them on the podcast I you know I bring them on the podcast I have all their numbers their income have all their numbers their income have all their numbers their income where they spend everything it's it's where they spend everything it's it's where they spend everything it's it's quite revelatory and often they will quite revelatory and often they will quite revelatory and often they will tell me especially parents well we can't tell me especially parents well we can't tell me especially parents well we can't cut back on that there's no way they say cut back on that there's no way they say cut back on that there's no way they say no way yeah they they say it so much no way yeah they they say it so much no way yeah they they say it so much that I decided I want to start a new that I decided I want to start a new that I decided I want to start a new service we've all heard of SAS apps service we've all heard of SAS apps service we've all heard of SAS apps software as a service I want to start software as a service I want to start software as a service I want to start Nas which is no as a service if you have Nas which is no as a service if you have Nas which is no as a service if you have a problem especially saying no to your a problem especially saying no to your a problem especially saying no to your kids you just write me you email me hey kids you just write me you email me hey kids you just write me you email me hey RIT do you think that we should spend uh RIT do you think that we should spend uh RIT do you think that we should spend uh $4,700 on this new tent and I literally $4,700 on this new tent and I literally $4,700 on this new tent and I literally would just write back no simple now I would just write back no simple now I would just write back no simple now I don't know if I'm going to make any don't know if I'm going to make any don't know if I'm going to make any money off that but you know I love money off that but you know I love money off that but you know I love saying no I love it oh I need that some

saying no I love it oh I need that some saying no I love it oh I need that some days too I mean no is hard right like no days too I mean no is hard right like no days too I mean no is hard right like no is hard and but it's funny it's like a is hard and but it's funny it's like a is hard and but it's funny it's like a heat map right and you can test on heat map right and you can test on heat map right and you can test on social so that's fascinating you shared social so that's fascinating you shared social so that's fascinating you shared in an email uh just before we hit record in an email uh just before we hit record in an email uh just before we hit record on this maybe last week you were talking on this maybe last week you were talking on this maybe last week you were talking about a time where your business took a about a time where your business took a about a time where your business took a real turn for the worst not year one but real turn for the worst not year one but real turn for the worst not year one but like year 10 or 15 you had a real like year 10 or 15 you had a real like year 10 or 15 you had a real episode in your business what happened episode in your business what happened episode in your business what happened and how did you and how did you and how did you recover there was some real tough times recover there was some real tough times recover there was some real tough times in the business this one in particular in the business this one in particular in the business this one in particular happened around happened around happened around 2016 2016 2016 and and and 2016 our business dramatically slowed 2016 our business dramatically slowed 2016 our business dramatically slowed right around the election and instantly right around the election and instantly right around the election and instantly when we saw the numbers coming in we when we saw the numbers coming in we when we saw the numbers coming in we were paying attention to it I started were paying attention to it I started were paying attention to it I started reaching out to my peers they were reaching out to my peers they were reaching out to my peers they were talking about the same thing lots of talking about the same thing lots of talking about the same thing lots of slowdown we're talking in many cases 25 slowdown we're talking in many cases 25 slowdown we're talking in many cases 25 to 50% overnight drop in Revenue that's to 50% overnight drop in Revenue that's to 50% overnight drop in Revenue that's a big drop for many businesses that's a big drop for many businesses that's a big drop for many businesses that's game over if you have a 50% drop it's game over if you have a 50% drop it's game over if you have a 50% drop it's over so the initial thinking was it's over so the initial thinking was it's over so the initial thinking was it's the election which to some extent I do the election which to some extent I do the election which to some extent I do think that election does suck up a lot think that election does suck up a lot think that election does suck up a lot of energy in the media of energy in the media of energy in the media ecosystem we started making changes ecosystem we started making changes ecosystem we started making changes fairly quickly and we could not changed fairly quickly and we could not changed fairly quickly and we could not changed the trajectory it just got worse and the trajectory it just got worse and the trajectory it just got worse and worse and then I decided to step in and worse and then I decided to step in and worse and then I decided to step in and get a little bit more operational like I get a little bit more operational like I get a little bit more operational like I was writing emails I said like I was

was writing emails I said like I was was writing emails I said like I was dusting off you know cracking my dusting off you know cracking my dusting off you know cracking my Knuckles dusting it off okay the old the Knuckles dusting it off okay the old the Knuckles dusting it off okay the old the old wizard has returned the master has old wizard has returned the master has old wizard has returned the master has returned well guess what uh it didn't returned well guess what uh it didn't returned well guess what uh it didn't change anything so when I wrote my own change anything so when I wrote my own change anything so when I wrote my own copy every word and I said wait a second copy every word and I said wait a second copy every word and I said wait a second this isn't changing either there's this isn't changing either there's this isn't changing either there's something structural going on here something structural going on here something structural going on here that's when we started to have to make that's when we started to have to make that's when we started to have to make some more tough difficult decisions um some more tough difficult decisions um some more tough difficult decisions um one thing was we had to do layoffs that one thing was we had to do layoffs that one thing was we had to do layoffs that was very difficult we had an amazing was very difficult we had an amazing was very difficult we had an amazing team um and I will say I am thankful team um and I will say I am thankful team um and I will say I am thankful that we had that we could do it that we had that we could do it that we had that we could do it gracefully and give people the respect gracefully and give people the respect gracefully and give people the respect they deserved um I'm also thankful that they deserved um I'm also thankful that they deserved um I'm also thankful that we had a a secure cash position so I've we had a a secure cash position so I've we had a a secure cash position so I've run the business conservatively and that run the business conservatively and that run the business conservatively and that really helped really helped um there was really helped really helped um there was really helped really helped um there was one other side effect that I had never one other side effect that I had never one other side effect that I had never anticipated so my dad is notoriously anticipated so my dad is notoriously anticipated so my dad is notoriously unstressed like nothing really phases unstressed like nothing really phases unstressed like nothing really phases him and I have become the same way it's him and I have become the same way it's him and I have become the same way it's I'm kind of known for it like oh it's I'm kind of known for it like oh it's I'm kind of known for it like oh it's you know nothing's really going to you know nothing's really going to you know nothing's really going to bother him whatever and I believe that bother him whatever and I believe that bother him whatever and I believe that that was my that was my that was my identity until this when this started identity until this when this started identity until this when this started happening the downturn in business that happening the downturn in business that happening the downturn in business that was quite severe and it didn't seem like was quite severe and it didn't seem like was quite severe and it didn't seem like there was an easy fix I would wake up in there was an easy fix I would wake up in there was an easy fix I would wake up in the middle of the night and I would be G the middle of the night and I would be G the middle of the night and I would be G gping for breath and I didn't make the gping for breath and I didn't make the gping for breath and I didn't make the connection I went to the doctor the ENT connection I went to the doctor the ENT connection I went to the doctor the ENT doctor they look in my mouth they said doctor they look in my mouth they said doctor they look in my mouth they said physiologically you're fine are you physiologically you're fine are you physiologically you're fine are you stressed at all and I laughed am I Str

stressed at all and I laughed am I Str stressed at all and I laughed am I Str yeah you could say that and what what I yeah you could say that and what what I yeah you could say that and what what I quickly Learned was that I am just like quickly Learned was that I am just like quickly Learned was that I am just like anybody else I'm not special I may have anybody else I'm not special I may have anybody else I'm not special I may have a slightly higher tolerance for stress a slightly higher tolerance for stress a slightly higher tolerance for stress but eventually it catches up with me as but eventually it catches up with me as but eventually it catches up with me as well and it was affecting me I was well and it was affecting me I was well and it was affecting me I was waking up gasping which is a horrible waking up gasping which is a horrible waking up gasping which is a horrible way to sleep well once we made the way to sleep well once we made the way to sleep well once we made the changes to our business that phenomenon changes to our business that phenomenon changes to our business that phenomenon disappeared I've never had it happen disappeared I've never had it happen disappeared I've never had it happen again so it was clearly related and what again so it was clearly related and what again so it was clearly related and what that really taught me was one make sure that really taught me was one make sure that really taught me was one make sure you run your organization conservatively you run your organization conservatively you run your organization conservatively two keep your eye on the numbers know two keep your eye on the numbers know two keep your eye on the numbers know what's going on three if you have to what's going on three if you have to what's going on three if you have to make changes make them quick and finally make changes make them quick and finally make changes make them quick and finally you're not special I'm not special we're you're not special I'm not special we're you're not special I'm not special we're not special we are all pretty much the not special we are all pretty much the not special we are all pretty much the same and once we accept that then we can same and once we accept that then we can same and once we accept that then we can start to make decisions that have worked start to make decisions that have worked start to make decisions that have worked for other people because they're for other people because they're for other people because they're probably going to work for probably going to work for probably going to work for us what in your business model stopped us what in your business model stopped us what in your business model stopped working and then what did you pivot working and then what did you pivot working and then what did you pivot to truthfully beyond the election which to truthfully beyond the election which to truthfully beyond the election which I do think had an effect I think we had I do think had an effect I think we had I do think had an effect I think we had stopped innovating for a few years there stopped innovating for a few years there stopped innovating for a few years there was a golden age where we were was a golden age where we were was a golden age where we were innovating quite a bit and then we innovating quite a bit and then we innovating quite a bit and then we became too internally focused focusing became too internally focused focusing became too internally focused focusing too much on our internal process and too much on our internal process and too much on our internal process and juggling things around and the fact is juggling things around and the fact is juggling things around and the fact is the customer doesn't care all they care the customer doesn't care all they care the customer doesn't care all they care is what's new are you giving them is what's new are you giving them is what's new are you giving them something that's valuable and if you're something that's valuable and if you're something that's valuable and if you're not then in many ways the Market's going not then in many ways the Market's going not then in many ways the Market's going to tell you and they told us and so what to tell you and they told us and so what to tell you and they told us and so what we had to do was a dramatic

we had to do was a dramatic we had to do was a dramatic recalibration of our business and we had recalibration of our business and we had recalibration of our business and we had to re-understand where the actual value to re-understand where the actual value to re-understand where the actual value drivers were not what we thought they drivers were not what we thought they drivers were not what we thought they were because us fixing some internal were because us fixing some internal were because us fixing some internal software tool is not nobody cares but software tool is not nobody cares but software tool is not nobody cares but it's what they care about that is what it's what they care about that is what it's what they care about that is what has to drive us has to drive us has to drive us H so practically speaking for the people H so practically speaking for the people H so practically speaking for the people who follow you what would they have who follow you what would they have who follow you what would they have known about you before and then who have known about you before and then who have known about you before and then who have you become in the last eight you become in the last eight you become in the last eight years um I think they would have I think years um I think they would have I think years um I think they would have I think in the past they would have known me to in the past they would have known me to in the past they would have known me to be quite tactical um I would have you be quite tactical um I would have you be quite tactical um I would have you know in my first book I will teach you know in my first book I will teach you know in my first book I will teach you to be rich I gave extremely tactical to be rich I gave extremely tactical to be rich I gave extremely tactical advice about exactly what account to set advice about exactly what account to set advice about exactly what account to set up exactly what to say when you call up exactly what to say when you call up exactly what to say when you call this phone number to get your fees waved this phone number to get your fees waved this phone number to get your fees waved valuable stuff valuable stuff valuable stuff I think that since I think that since I think that since then my audience has known me to become then my audience has known me to become then my audience has known me to become um more considerate and hopefully more um more considerate and hopefully more um more considerate and hopefully more emotionally sensitive in fact I'm 42 in emotionally sensitive in fact I'm 42 in emotionally sensitive in fact I'm 42 in my 40s when I look back I think that the my 40s when I look back I think that the my 40s when I look back I think that the most valuable thing I've done in the most valuable thing I've done in the most valuable thing I've done in the last 20 years it's not a TV show it's last 20 years it's not a TV show it's last 20 years it's not a TV show it's not a bestselling book it is tapping not a bestselling book it is tapping not a bestselling book it is tapping into the emotions that I would have into the emotions that I would have into the emotions that I would have ignored as a 22-year-old guy not just ignored as a 22-year-old guy not just ignored as a 22-year-old guy not just ignored I would have actively fought you ignored I would have actively fought you ignored I would have actively fought you if you told me but I've realized the if you told me but I've realized the if you told me but I've realized the power of power of power of that man I tell you that's something that man I tell you that's something that man I tell you that's something that I love about your podcasting I mean that I love about your podcasting I mean that I love about your podcasting I mean I I rarely miss an episode it's

I I rarely miss an episode it's I I rarely miss an episode it's fascinating to me and I sort of as a fascinating to me and I sort of as a fascinating to me and I sort of as a podcaster myself play this game in my podcaster myself play this game in my podcaster myself play this game in my head like what would I do with this head like what would I do with this head like what would I do with this couple when they're telling you you know couple when they're telling you you know couple when they're telling you you know you're worth $7 million and won't spend you're worth $7 million and won't spend you're worth $7 million and won't spend 300 bucks on a hotel or uh you know a 300 bucks on a hotel or uh you know a 300 bucks on a hotel or uh you know a that has seven vehicles and they're that has seven vehicles and they're that has seven vehicles and they're underwater but he doesn't want to get underwater but he doesn't want to get underwater but he doesn't want to get rid of them and I'm like I would be like rid of them and I'm like I would be like rid of them and I'm like I would be like more like all right guys that's enough more like all right guys that's enough more like all right guys that's enough like I'm sure there must be a part of like I'm sure there must be a part of like I'm sure there must be a part of you under your breath and you're like oh you under your breath and you're like oh you under your breath and you're like oh well tell me more about that you're well tell me more about that you're well tell me more about that you're incredibly incredibly incredibly empathic understanding empathic understanding empathic understanding thoughtful can I say restrained maybe thoughtful can I say restrained maybe thoughtful can I say restrained maybe that isn't restraint for you but it's that isn't restraint for you but it's that isn't restraint for you but it's got to be restraint for me like you've got to be restraint for me like you've got to be restraint for me like you've really really developed that so I'd love really really developed that so I'd love really really developed that so I'd love you to talk a little bit more about that you to talk a little bit more about that you to talk a little bit more about that because I think that's a skill that is because I think that's a skill that is because I think that's a skill that is so rare and you're one of the best at it so rare and you're one of the best at it so rare and you're one of the best at it that I've I've seen and I listen widely that I've I've seen and I listen widely that I've I've seen and I listen widely honestly thank you so much for saying honestly thank you so much for saying honestly thank you so much for saying that that that compliment u means more that that that compliment u means more that that that compliment u means more to me than any amount of money and any to me than any amount of money and any to me than any amount of money and any amount of business success because um it amount of business success because um it amount of business success because um it was not natural for me and it was really was not natural for me and it was really was not natural for me and it was really hard so that I think the things that are hard so that I think the things that are hard so that I think the things that are hard for us are often the most hard for us are often the most hard for us are often the most meaningful um when you look at me as a meaningful um when you look at me as a meaningful um when you look at me as a 18 to 25y 18 to 25y 18 to 25y old very old very old very confident sometimes confident sometimes confident sometimes cocky and a real lack of understanding cocky and a real lack of understanding cocky and a real lack of understanding or even interest in understanding the or even interest in understanding the or even interest in understanding the emotional parts of a decision to me it

emotional parts of a decision to me it emotional parts of a decision to me it was so obvious okay uh you're was so obvious okay uh you're was so obvious okay uh you're overdrafting your bank account then overdrafting your bank account then overdrafting your bank account then therefore you should open up this this therefore you should open up this this therefore you should open up this this this this this and oh you and your this this this and oh you and your this this this and oh you and your girlfriend are fighting about money well girlfriend are fighting about money well girlfriend are fighting about money well duh say this do that next do this good duh say this do that next do this good duh say this do that next do this good stuff good tactics but kind of missing stuff good tactics but kind of missing stuff good tactics but kind of missing what was really going on almost as if I what was really going on almost as if I what was really going on almost as if I just needed to put on a separate lens just needed to put on a separate lens just needed to put on a separate lens that would allow me to see ultraviolet that would allow me to see ultraviolet that would allow me to see ultraviolet light and light and light and um and so I I realized that I realized um and so I I realized that I realized um and so I I realized that I realized that in my own relationship as my wife that in my own relationship as my wife that in my own relationship as my wife and I got together and we struggled to and I got together and we struggled to and I got together and we struggled to talk about money we went through a talk about money we went through a talk about money we went through a process signing a prenup I'm like if process signing a prenup I'm like if process signing a prenup I'm like if this is this hard for us especially for this is this hard for us especially for this is this hard for us especially for me the money guy then imagine how hard me the money guy then imagine how hard me the money guy then imagine how hard these type of conversations are for these type of conversations are for these type of conversations are for other couples that led me to starting other couples that led me to starting other couples that led me to starting this series of conversations on my this series of conversations on my this series of conversations on my podcast where I bring real couples on podcast where I bring real couples on podcast where I bring real couples on the show of all different backgrounds the show of all different backgrounds the show of all different backgrounds different socioeconomic status uh different socioeconomic status uh different socioeconomic status uh different everything that's geographies different everything that's geographies different everything that's geographies age income everything and I asked them age income everything and I asked them age income everything and I asked them to share real numbers you've never seen to share real numbers you've never seen to share real numbers you've never seen real numbers like this some couples have real numbers like this some couples have real numbers like this some couples have $500,000 in debt some couples have $8 $500,000 in debt some couples have $8 $500,000 in debt some couples have $8 million in net worth and they talk about million in net worth and they talk about million in net worth and they talk about their challenges um I wanted this when their challenges um I wanted this when their challenges um I wanted this when my wife and I were starting to talk my wife and I were starting to talk my wife and I were starting to talk about money I just wanted to listen in about money I just wanted to listen in about money I just wanted to listen in like a fly on the wall don't tell me to like a fly on the wall don't tell me to

like a fly on the wall don't tell me to have the conversation let me listen to have the conversation let me listen to have the conversation let me listen to actual people I want to see what happens actual people I want to see what happens actual people I want to see what happens what when do they cry why do they say what when do they cry why do they say what when do they cry why do they say they can't change and then show me what they can't change and then show me what they can't change and then show me what it looks like to actually maybe help it looks like to actually maybe help it looks like to actually maybe help people make a change in the way they people make a change in the way they people make a change in the way they talk think and feel about money that is talk think and feel about money that is talk think and feel about money that is the money for couples podcast yeah and the money for couples podcast yeah and the money for couples podcast yeah and what you do so well because you're so what you do so well because you're so what you do so well because you're so restrained so thoughtful because restrained so thoughtful because restrained so thoughtful because otherwise you're going to lose them otherwise you're going to lose them otherwise you're going to lose them right if you come out of the gate right if you come out of the gate right if you come out of the gate swinging you're going to lose somebody swinging you're going to lose somebody swinging you're going to lose somebody if you pick a side you're you're going if you pick a side you're you're going if you pick a side you're you're going to lose but what happens is inevitably to lose but what happens is inevitably to lose but what happens is inevitably or almost always 3/4s of the way through or almost always 3/4s of the way through or almost always 3/4s of the way through there's a turning point and they see it there's a turning point and they see it there's a turning point and they see it for themselves and they resolve and and for themselves and they resolve and and for themselves and they resolve and and some times they don't and you're honest some times they don't and you're honest some times they don't and you're honest enough to share it you know what I enough to share it you know what I enough to share it you know what I couldn't get so and so to agree I asked couldn't get so and so to agree I asked couldn't get so and so to agree I asked them to follow up they didn't follow up them to follow up they didn't follow up them to follow up they didn't follow up That's How It Ends sometimes like it's That's How It Ends sometimes like it's That's How It Ends sometimes like it's just it's a it's a master class I think just it's a it's a master class I think just it's a it's a master class I think in in in learning how people work and how to learning how people work and how to learning how people work and how to motivate people and I'm probably wired a motivate people and I'm probably wired a motivate people and I'm probably wired a little bit like you I would just drive a little bit like you I would just drive a little bit like you I would just drive a truck through it it's like this is easy truck through it it's like this is easy truck through it it's like this is easy just do it just do it right well okay so just do it just do it right well okay so just do it just do it right well okay so it's funny you say that often in the it's funny you say that often in the it's funny you say that often in the comments there are lots of places that comments there are lots of places that comments there are lots of places that people will critique each episode and people will critique each episode and people will critique each episode and from a listener's perspective or a from a listener's perspective or a from a listener's perspective or a viewer because we put them on YouTube as viewer because we put them on YouTube as viewer because we put them on YouTube as well so you can actually see their faces well so you can actually see their faces well so you can actually see their faces and Body Language it's very tempting to and Body Language it's very tempting to and Body Language it's very tempting to Simply say oh my God this is so crazy Simply say oh my God this is so crazy Simply say oh my God this is so crazy he's insane or she's insane they're

he's insane or she's insane they're he's insane or she's insane they're insane and I would just blink they use insane and I would just blink they use insane and I would just blink they use the word just and then it's blink as if the word just and then it's blink as if the word just and then it's blink as if it's so simple as if you just scream at it's so simple as if you just scream at it's so simple as if you just scream at someone and suddenly they change their someone and suddenly they change their someone and suddenly they change their entire worldview now it might be entire worldview now it might be entire worldview now it might be tempting for the viewer to want that but tempting for the viewer to want that but tempting for the viewer to want that but my job is not to appeal to the base my job is not to appeal to the base my job is not to appeal to the base desires of some crowd that's not my job desires of some crowd that's not my job desires of some crowd that's not my job I'm not here to um entertain some random I'm not here to um entertain some random I'm not here to um entertain some random Anonymous commenter on YouTube I'm here Anonymous commenter on YouTube I'm here Anonymous commenter on YouTube I'm here to help the couple that is who I care to help the couple that is who I care to help the couple that is who I care about about about so I take it slow I have to build so I take it slow I have to build so I take it slow I have to build rapport and you have to remember the rapport and you have to remember the rapport and you have to remember the people who come on the show this is people who come on the show this is people who come on the show this is probably the one of the most nervous probably the one of the most nervous probably the one of the most nervous moments of their life they are probably moments of their life they are probably moments of their life they are probably wearing their best clothes um they have wearing their best clothes um they have wearing their best clothes um they have they're in front of artificial camera they're in front of artificial camera they're in front of artificial camera which doesn't feel normal and they have which doesn't feel normal and they have which doesn't feel normal and they have they know that number one they're seeing they know that number one they're seeing they know that number one they're seeing the same guy they see on TV that already the same guy they see on TV that already the same guy they see on TV that already feels nervous and number two they know feels nervous and number two they know feels nervous and number two they know that millions of people are going to that millions of people are going to that millions of people are going to hear and see this so we have to give hear and see this so we have to give hear and see this so we have to give them some compassion and we have to them some compassion and we have to them some compassion and we have to connect I have to connect with them connect I have to connect with them connect I have to connect with them sometimes I I'll take a 20 minute sometimes I I'll take a 20 minute sometimes I I'll take a 20 minute digression we'll talk about where they digression we'll talk about where they digression we'll talk about where they like to eat that's time well spent like to eat that's time well spent like to eat that's time well spent because in order to get to the intimate because in order to get to the intimate because in order to get to the intimate details of what the two of them are details of what the two of them are details of what the two of them are talking about literally often in their talking about literally often in their talking about literally often in their bedroom bedroom bedroom I have to be able to connect with both I have to be able to connect with both I have to be able to connect with both of them so that is how you build trust of them so that is how you build trust of them so that is how you build trust it takes time it's not about a gotcha it takes time it's not about a gotcha it takes time it's not about a gotcha moment although sometimes I will call moment although sometimes I will call moment although sometimes I will call them out it is really about you tell me them out it is really about you tell me them out it is really about you tell me what your Rich Life vision is and I will what your Rich Life vision is and I will what your Rich Life vision is and I will see if we can all get there together for see if we can all get there together for see if we can all get there together for those listening who do counseling it's

those listening who do counseling it's those listening who do counseling it's worth it's now called money for couples worth it's now called money for couples worth it's now called money for couples the podcast search it out watch it it's the podcast search it out watch it it's the podcast search it out watch it it's a master class in getting people to a master class in getting people to a master class in getting people to agree so 20 years in agree so 20 years in agree so 20 years in leadership what have you learned what leadership what have you learned what leadership what have you learned what have you learned about resilience in have you learned about resilience in have you learned about resilience in leadership leadership leadership remet one thing that I've learned is remet one thing that I've learned is remet one thing that I've learned is live to fight another day live to fight live to fight another day live to fight live to fight another day live to fight another day in personal finance the another day in personal finance the another day in personal finance the phrase is don't run out of money that's phrase is don't run out of money that's phrase is don't run out of money that's what personal finance and businesses say what personal finance and businesses say what personal finance and businesses say but the way I interpret it is don't give but the way I interpret it is don't give but the way I interpret it is don't give up live to fight another day so the way up live to fight another day so the way up live to fight another day so the way that that shows up in my life is that that shows up in my life is that that shows up in my life is risk management it means I have a risk management it means I have a risk management it means I have a sizable emergency fund in case something sizable emergency fund in case something sizable emergency fund in case something ever went wrong it means I run my ever went wrong it means I run my ever went wrong it means I run my business conservatively so if something business conservatively so if something business conservatively so if something goes wrong as it did I don't have to goes wrong as it did I don't have to goes wrong as it did I don't have to close down shop because I want to live close down shop because I want to live close down shop because I want to live to fight another day it means in my to fight another day it means in my to fight another day it means in my personal relationships keep things going keep relationships keep things going keep engaged send a text see your friend when engaged send a text see your friend when engaged send a text see your friend when you're in town uh talk to your loved you're in town uh talk to your loved you're in town uh talk to your loved ones when you can right those kinds of ones when you can right those kinds of ones when you can right those kinds of things live to fight another day don't things live to fight another day don't things live to fight another day don't give up up uh even if somebody says give up up uh even if somebody says give up up uh even if somebody says something that you disagree with this is something that you disagree with this is something that you disagree with this is one I personally struggle with talk one I personally struggle with talk one I personally struggle with talk about it have some conversations before about it have some conversations before about it have some conversations before you cut somebody off although I'm not you cut somebody off although I'm not you cut somebody off although I'm not the perfect example of that all right if the perfect example of that all right if the perfect example of that all right if someone says something really crazy I'm someone says something really crazy I'm someone says something really crazy I'm like all right goodbye so um live to like all right goodbye so um live to like all right goodbye so um live to fight another day for me is asking

fight another day for me is asking fight another day for me is asking yourself it's really acknowledging that yourself it's really acknowledging that yourself it's really acknowledging that sometimes things can go bad they can go sometimes things can go bad they can go sometimes things can go bad they can go really bad like when our business um really bad like when our business um really bad like when our business um started to go down started to go down started to go down um we had modeled out you know like a um we had modeled out you know like a um we had modeled out you know like a 10% decrease or a 20 and what I learned 10% decrease or a 20 and what I learned 10% decrease or a 20 and what I learned from that is it can always get worse I from that is it can always get worse I from that is it can always get worse I don't think we've really accepted that I don't think we've really accepted that I don't think we've really accepted that I hadn't that whoa what if we model out a hadn't that whoa what if we model out a hadn't that whoa what if we model out a 35% decrease what if it's a 50% decrease 35% decrease what if it's a 50% decrease 35% decrease what if it's a 50% decrease how would we exist and so in order to how would we exist and so in order to how would we exist and so in order to live def fight another day you have to live def fight another day you have to live def fight another day you have to be brutally honest about what can go be brutally honest about what can go be brutally honest about what can go wrong that allows you to prepare put wrong that allows you to prepare put wrong that allows you to prepare put your plans in place and of course always your plans in place and of course always your plans in place and of course always ask yourself what what happens if things ask yourself what what happens if things ask yourself what what happens if things go right because I prefer to live there go right because I prefer to live there go right because I prefer to live there but I don't want to give up just because but I don't want to give up just because but I don't want to give up just because I ran out of cash I don't want to give I ran out of cash I don't want to give I ran out of cash I don't want to give up because one key person left and I up because one key person left and I up because one key person left and I didn't have Sops around them I want to didn't have Sops around them I want to didn't have Sops around them I want to live to fight another live to fight another live to fight another day so a couple years ago you did a day so a couple years ago you did a day so a couple years ago you did a Netflix series how to get rich and it Netflix series how to get rich and it Netflix series how to get rich and it was a version of your podcast that you'd was a version of your podcast that you'd was a version of your podcast that you'd been running for years just helping been running for years just helping been running for years just helping people figure out their finances it was people figure out their finances it was people figure out their finances it was a limited series what did you learn a limited series what did you learn a limited series what did you learn through your experience with through your experience with through your experience with Netflix um I learned the power of Netflix um I learned the power of Netflix um I learned the power of working with an amazing team and I have working with an amazing team and I have working with an amazing team and I have an amazing team in my business I will an amazing team in my business I will an amazing team in my business I will teach you to be rich this team was teach you to be rich this team was teach you to be rich this team was different in that I had never worked different in that I had never worked different in that I had never worked with any of them and they sort of spin with any of them and they sort of spin with any of them and they sort of spin up around 50 people to build develop and up around 50 people to build develop and up around 50 people to build develop and create this show and then everyone

create this show and then everyone create this show and then everyone scatters to the wind I think that um scatters to the wind I think that um scatters to the wind I think that um very often leaders like you and me we very often leaders like you and me we very often leaders like you and me we are used are used are used to telling others what we want to have to telling others what we want to have to telling others what we want to have done and sometimes you have to do that I done and sometimes you have to do that I done and sometimes you have to do that I get it but what a gift to be with a team get it but what a gift to be with a team get it but what a gift to be with a team that tells you and you can sit back and that tells you and you can sit back and that tells you and you can sit back and say oh wow that's a really good idea I say oh wow that's a really good idea I say oh wow that's a really good idea I didn't think of that or I'm not going to didn't think of that or I'm not going to didn't think of that or I'm not going to do that I would never do that it's do that I would never do that it's do that I would never do that it's offbrand for me but it it filled me with offbrand for me but it it filled me with offbrand for me but it it filled me with um a feeling of um relief that I had um a feeling of um relief that I had um a feeling of um relief that I had amazing capable people around me who amazing capable people around me who amazing capable people around me who were looking out for me love that were looking out for me love that were looking out for me love that brought that back into my own business brought that back into my own business brought that back into my own business as well and then the other thing I as well and then the other thing I as well and then the other thing I learned was in the past I would have learned was in the past I would have learned was in the past I would have thought that success was taking somebody thought that success was taking somebody thought that success was taking somebody in some sort of financially problematic in some sort of financially problematic in some sort of financially problematic scenario and then giving getting them a scenario and then giving getting them a scenario and then giving getting them a $25,000 raise or helping them pay off $25,000 raise or helping them pay off $25,000 raise or helping them pay off their debt Etc what Netflix and the their debt Etc what Netflix and the their debt Etc what Netflix and the specifically the crew there including specifically the crew there including specifically the crew there including the showrunner Bianca and many others the showrunner Bianca and many others the showrunner Bianca and many others taught me is taught me is taught me is that maybe maybe you can help them have that maybe maybe you can help them have that maybe maybe you can help them have a transformation but some people are a transformation but some people are a transformation but some people are going to listen and some people are not going to listen and some people are not going to listen and some people are not it's their story that is a success as it's their story that is a success as it's their story that is a success as long as they can tell their story long as they can tell their story long as they can tell their story whether they listen or not whether they whether they listen or not whether they whether they listen or not whether they transform or not that is success for transform or not that is success for transform or not that is success for them simply to share their story and them simply to share their story and them simply to share their story and that was profoundly a different way of that was profoundly a different way of that was profoundly a different way of looking at

looking at looking at success and remember I had been running success and remember I had been running success and remember I had been running my business about 17 years at that time my business about 17 years at that time my business about 17 years at that time and for me to still learn new things and for me to still learn new things and for me to still learn new things like that what a like that what a like that what a gift that's true and that's probably you gift that's true and that's probably you gift that's true and that's probably you know I think a lot of us who are wired know I think a lot of us who are wired know I think a lot of us who are wired As Leaders really love the before middle As Leaders really love the before middle As Leaders really love the before middle and after and let's be honest we love to and after and let's be honest we love to and after and let's be honest we love to be the hero in the story we all do right be the hero in the story we all do right be the hero in the story we all do right if we do that but I think what I hear if we do that but I think what I hear if we do that but I think what I hear you saying is not every story has a you saying is not every story has a you saying is not every story has a happy ending but the telling of the happy ending but the telling of the happy ending but the telling of the story actually it kind of lends story actually it kind of lends story actually it kind of lends credibility like when you air those credibility like when you air those credibility like when you air those episodes where the couple didn't agree episodes where the couple didn't agree episodes where the couple didn't agree there haven't been a lot but there have there haven't been a lot but there have there haven't been a lot but there have been a few and you're like spent four been a few and you're like spent four been a few and you're like spent four hours with this couple I I don't know hours with this couple I I don't know hours with this couple I I don't know what to do and or these guys said they what to do and or these guys said they what to do and or these guys said they were going to do it but they didn't were going to do it but they didn't were going to do it but they didn't follow up and they still own 17 SUVs follow up and they still own 17 SUVs follow up and they still own 17 SUVs that they don't need or you know that they don't need or you know that they don't need or you know whatever it happens to be the non-happy whatever it happens to be the non-happy whatever it happens to be the non-happy ending and I'm thinking for church ending and I'm thinking for church ending and I'm thinking for church leaders we always like to tie a bow on leaders we always like to tie a bow on leaders we always like to tie a bow on it you know this person got baptized it you know this person got baptized it you know this person got baptized never had a mistake again as long as never had a mistake again as long as never had a mistake again as long as they live but actually being honest they live but actually being honest they live but actually being honest about the story and people go like oh about the story and people go like oh about the story and people go like oh yeah that's me I don't always do what yeah that's me I don't always do what yeah that's me I don't always do what I'm told that's totally it you know I I'm told that's totally it you know I I'm told that's totally it you know I have a well actually this story has a have a well actually this story has a have a well actually this story has a dark and unhappy ending which I love I dark and unhappy ending which I love I dark and unhappy ending which I love I love a movie with a a dark ending just love a movie with a a dark ending just love a movie with a a dark ending just like who what director has the courage like who what director has the courage like who what director has the courage to do that because in America we love to to do that because in America we love to to do that because in America we love to tie it up with a bow that is tie it up with a bow that is tie it up with a bow that is quintessentially American and yet it's quintessentially American and yet it's quintessentially American and yet it's not human so I had a bonsai tree and my not human so I had a bonsai tree and my not human so I had a bonsai tree and my dream one of the parts of my rich life dream one of the parts of my rich life dream one of the parts of my rich life is one day I'm going to have a gigantic is one day I'm going to have a gigantic is one day I'm going to have a gigantic massive bonsai tree you know six feet massive bonsai tree you know six feet massive bonsai tree you know six feet tall it's been growing for 400 years

tall it's been growing for 400 years tall it's been growing for 400 years well I figured before I get that I well I figured before I get that I well I figured before I get that I better just get a bonsai tree at Target better just get a bonsai tree at Target better just get a bonsai tree at Target or something and practice it so I get or something and practice it so I get or something and practice it so I get this little bonsai tree was behind me on this little bonsai tree was behind me on this little bonsai tree was behind me on my bookshelf and I'm watering it I'm my bookshelf and I'm watering it I'm my bookshelf and I'm watering it I'm watering it it's doing fine it's not watering it it's doing fine it's not watering it it's doing fine it's not really progressing but it's alive then I really progressing but it's alive then I really progressing but it's alive then I had to travel and this and that and I had to travel and this and that and I had to travel and this and that and I come back it's not looking good my wife come back it's not looking good my wife come back it's not looking good my wife bought me a bonsai book it was like bought me a bonsai book it was like bought me a bonsai book it was like written for children it was like 18 written for children it was like 18 written for children it was like 18 pages long just like fit in the palm of pages long just like fit in the palm of pages long just like fit in the palm of your hands little I never read that book your hands little I never read that book your hands little I never read that book I never even opened that book okay I I never even opened that book okay I I never even opened that book okay I just didn't want to I wanted my bonsai just didn't want to I wanted my bonsai just didn't want to I wanted my bonsai tree to live but I didn't want to go tree to live but I didn't want to go tree to live but I didn't want to go through the work of reading this 18-page through the work of reading this 18-page through the work of reading this 18-page book So eventually the bonsai tree dies book So eventually the bonsai tree dies book So eventually the bonsai tree dies and to me that was such a beautiful and to me that was such a beautiful and to me that was such a beautiful metaphor for money metaphor for money metaphor for money because if you had asked me REM do you because if you had asked me REM do you because if you had asked me REM do you want to have a beautiful huge bonsai want to have a beautiful huge bonsai want to have a beautiful huge bonsai tree from Kyoto or something I would tree from Kyoto or something I would tree from Kyoto or something I would have said yes do you want this little have said yes do you want this little have said yes do you want this little bonsai tree to stay alive yes well why bonsai tree to stay alive yes well why bonsai tree to stay alive yes well why haven't you read the book and I would haven't you read the book and I would haven't you read the book and I would have no answer for you because humans have no answer for you because humans have no answer for you because humans are irrational and I am not special so are irrational and I am not special so are irrational and I am not special so there's an unhappy ending but but there's an unhappy ending but but there's an unhappy ending but but sometimes we need to hear those unhappy sometimes we need to hear those unhappy sometimes we need to hear those unhappy endings cuz all of us have something in endings cuz all of us have something in endings cuz all of us have something in our life where we know we should be our life where we know we should be our life where we know we should be doing it but we are not and once we can doing it but we are not and once we can doing it but we are not and once we can connect with that whether it's um connect with that whether it's um connect with that whether it's um connecting with your congregation connecting with your congregation connecting with your congregation whether it's going every Sunday whether whether it's going every Sunday whether whether it's going every Sunday whether it is uh running your business in a it is uh running your business in a it is uh running your business in a certain way or calling your mom we know certain way or calling your mom we know certain way or calling your mom we know we are not doing the thing we should and we are not doing the thing we should and we are not doing the thing we should and we need to accept it and interrogate why we need to accept it and interrogate why we need to accept it and interrogate why and maybe make a change when and if the

and maybe make a change when and if the and maybe make a change when and if the time is right that is deeply connective time is right that is deeply connective time is right that is deeply connective in my experience well there's a Biblical in my experience well there's a Biblical in my experience well there's a Biblical principle I Think Jesus taught it right principle I Think Jesus taught it right principle I Think Jesus taught it right if you're faithful with a little bit you if you're faithful with a little bit you if you're faithful with a little bit you can be trusted with a lot more if you're can be trusted with a lot more if you're can be trusted with a lot more if you're not faithful with a little bit the not faithful with a little bit the not faithful with a little bit the little Bonsai which cost you $17 at little Bonsai which cost you $17 at little Bonsai which cost you $17 at Target as opposed to multi I don't know Target as opposed to multi I don't know Target as opposed to multi I don't know how much they cost you get that built in how much they cost you get that built in how much they cost you get that built in your garden and I didn't even read the your garden and I didn't even read the your garden and I didn't even read the book right but I blew 20 grand on it or book right but I blew 20 grand on it or book right but I blew 20 grand on it or whatever it happens to be yeah I wasn't whatever it happens to be yeah I wasn't whatever it happens to be yeah I wasn't ready I wasn't and that's okay I'm not ready I wasn't and that's okay I'm not ready I wasn't and that's okay I'm not ready not everyone is ready for ready not everyone is ready for ready not everyone is ready for everything and all of a at different everything and all of a at different everything and all of a at different levels have something in our life we are levels have something in our life we are levels have something in our life we are not ready for that's okay but it's not ready for that's okay but it's not ready for that's okay but it's really helpful to be able to observe it really helpful to be able to observe it really helpful to be able to observe it and and name the dynamic one more thing and and name the dynamic one more thing and and name the dynamic one more thing about your company which I find about your company which I find about your company which I find fascinating is you've rebranded a couple fascinating is you've rebranded a couple fascinating is you've rebranded a couple of times and you did it recently I went of times and you did it recently I went of times and you did it recently I went to listen to I will teach you to be rich to listen to I will teach you to be rich to listen to I will teach you to be rich it's like it's not on my playlist now it's like it's not on my playlist now it's like it's not on my playlist now it's money for couples oh okay what are it's money for couples oh okay what are it's money for couples oh okay what are you learning about rebranding um and you you learning about rebranding um and you you learning about rebranding um and you know keeping an audience engaged over know keeping an audience engaged over know keeping an audience engaged over time when you continually innovate and time when you continually innovate and time when you continually innovate and change change change um I I I'm I wouldn't say I'm a branding um I I I'm I wouldn't say I'm a branding um I I I'm I wouldn't say I'm a branding expert so I learn from a lot of folks expert so I learn from a lot of folks expert so I learn from a lot of folks and you know I think some companies do and you know I think some companies do and you know I think some companies do it really well I will say this we it really well I will say this we it really well I will say this we started the podcast called I will teach started the podcast called I will teach started the podcast called I will teach you to be rich that's the name of my you to be rich that's the name of my you to be rich that's the name of my business it's also the name of my first business it's also the name of my first business it's also the name of my first book over time it is it is very book over time it is it is very book over time it is it is very explicitly a podcast for couples and explicitly a podcast for couples and explicitly a podcast for couples and money that's what it's money that's what it's money that's what it's about about about and when we had we have the book coming

and when we had we have the book coming and when we had we have the book coming out money for out money for out money for and it just seemed like it's natural and it just seemed like it's natural and it just seemed like it's natural this podcast is about the very topics in this podcast is about the very topics in this podcast is about the very topics in the book of course it is because the the book of course it is because the the book of course it is because the book is based on a lot of what I book is based on a lot of what I book is based on a lot of what I observed in the podcast and then observed in the podcast and then observed in the podcast and then expanded um the biggest challenge for expanded um the biggest challenge for expanded um the biggest challenge for rebranding often is a feeling that um rebranding often is a feeling that um rebranding often is a feeling that um the world is going to get mad at you and the world is going to get mad at you and the world is going to get mad at you and yes like as if as if as if somebody's yes like as if as if as if somebody's yes like as if as if as if somebody's sitting there with a spreadsheet of all sitting there with a spreadsheet of all sitting there with a spreadsheet of all the branding changes I've made and the branding changes I've made and the branding changes I've made and they're like REM sat this one really they're like REM sat this one really they're like REM sat this one really angered me and therefore I'm going to angered me and therefore I'm going to angered me and therefore I'm going to write you this skating email first of write you this skating email first of write you this skating email first of all nobody cares um we always say in our all nobody cares um we always say in our all nobody cares um we always say in our company we are but a moment in their day company we are but a moment in their day company we are but a moment in their day what does it mean it means that we are what does it mean it means that we are what does it mean it means that we are lucky if we get 15 seconds of attention lucky if we get 15 seconds of attention lucky if we get 15 seconds of attention through these laborious emails that we through these laborious emails that we through these laborious emails that we painstakingly write um I had this really painstakingly write um I had this really painstakingly write um I had this really funny thing that um during covid I uh I funny thing that um during covid I uh I funny thing that um during covid I uh I started these Fireside Chats I was out started these Fireside Chats I was out started these Fireside Chats I was out of the city and I said you know what of the city and I said you know what of the city and I said you know what when it started I said I'm going to be when it started I said I'm going to be when it started I said I'm going to be here every night for as long as this here every night for as long as this here every night for as long as this goes on and I literally had a fire I had goes on and I literally had a fire I had goes on and I literally had a fire I had a fire I was sitting by the Fireside on a fire I was sitting by the Fireside on a fire I was sitting by the Fireside on a rocking chair and I would talk about a rocking chair and I would talk about a rocking chair and I would talk about whatever every night it would be about whatever every night it would be about whatever every night it would be about this or that I would talk about money this or that I would talk about money this or that I would talk about money careers whatever and at a certain point careers whatever and at a certain point careers whatever and at a certain point this went on for a long time like a this went on for a long time like a this went on for a long time like a month two months every night for an hour month two months every night for an hour month two months every night for an hour my wife was there filming and then I my wife was there filming and then I my wife was there filming and then I started to kind of get bored with it and started to kind of get bored with it and started to kind of get bored with it and I didn't have things to talk about I I didn't have things to talk about I I didn't have things to talk about I started to resent it because I'm like started to resent it because I'm like started to resent it because I'm like you know this went on a lot longer than

you know this went on a lot longer than you know this went on a lot longer than I thought this supped to be two weeks I thought this supped to be two weeks I thought this supped to be two weeks yeah so then one yeah so then one yeah so then one day I just at the end of the one hour day I just at the end of the one hour day I just at the end of the one hour thing there were all these live viewers thing there were all these live viewers thing there were all these live viewers I go okay well it's been fun this is the I go okay well it's been fun this is the I go okay well it's been fun this is the last one bye and I just hung up now deep last one bye and I just hung up now deep last one bye and I just hung up now deep down in my heart I think I hoped that down in my heart I think I hoped that down in my heart I think I hoped that all these people would write and protest all these people would write and protest all these people would write and protest RIT come back you're so important you're RIT come back you're so important you're RIT come back you're so important you're my 8pm every night do you know how many my 8pm every night do you know how many my 8pm every night do you know how many people wrote me zero nobody cares we are people wrote me zero nobody cares we are people wrote me zero nobody cares we are but a moment in their day and once we but a moment in their day and once we but a moment in their day and once we accept that it makes things so clear accept that it makes things so clear accept that it makes things so clear this obligation that we make up so that this obligation that we make up so that this obligation that we make up so that we can become the hero in our own story we can become the hero in our own story we can become the hero in our own story is so self-defeating look here's another is so self-defeating look here's another is so self-defeating look here's another way to look at it I had a good time way to look at it I had a good time way to look at it I had a good time during covid we all needed something to during covid we all needed something to during covid we all needed something to do I have a lot to say I had a great do I have a lot to say I had a great do I have a lot to say I had a great time serving while I could and then when time serving while I could and then when time serving while I could and then when it wasn't working I wrapped it up and I it wasn't working I wrapped it up and I it wasn't working I wrapped it up and I feel thankful that those videos are feel thankful that those videos are feel thankful that those videos are still there but I'm good to go that's still there but I'm good to go that's still there but I'm good to go that's another way to look at it another way to look at it another way to look at it you know just to Echo that twice in the you know just to Echo that twice in the you know just to Echo that twice in the last six seven years I've started other last six seven years I've started other last six seven years I've started other podcasts gotten to hundreds of thousands podcasts gotten to hundreds of thousands podcasts gotten to hundreds of thousands of downloads on them and then thought of downloads on them and then thought of downloads on them and then thought I'm not going to do it and expecting the I'm not going to do it and expecting the I'm not going to do it and expecting the inbox to explode and yeah you don't even inbox to explode and yeah you don't even inbox to explode and yeah you don't even get a golf clap like yeah thanks for get a golf clap like yeah thanks for get a golf clap like yeah thanks for doing that and so I think you're right doing that and so I think you're right doing that and so I think you're right you got to give yourself permission yeah you got to give yourself permission yeah you got to give yourself permission yeah so you know you have a lot of church so you know you have a lot of church so you know you have a lot of church leaders listening to this and Business leaders listening to this and Business leaders listening to this and Business Leaders and we have the unenviable Leaders and we have the unenviable Leaders and we have the unenviable privilege of talking about money and

privilege of talking about money and privilege of talking about money and sort of where you know where I come from sort of where you know where I come from sort of where you know where I come from what I learned along the way in what I learned along the way in what I learned along the way in leadership is you know churches leadership is you know churches leadership is you know churches stereotypically ask for money it's what stereotypically ask for money it's what stereotypically ask for money it's what I want from you remit and that gets us I want from you remit and that gets us I want from you remit and that gets us into all kinds of trouble so we started into all kinds of trouble so we started into all kinds of trouble so we started casting a vision years ago that this is casting a vision years ago that this is casting a vision years ago that this is what we want for you and it's basically what we want for you and it's basically what we want for you and it's basically what you do what Dave Ramsey does it's what you do what Dave Ramsey does it's what you do what Dave Ramsey does it's like we want you to pay cash for a like we want you to pay cash for a like we want you to pay cash for a vacation we want you to take the vacation we want you to take the vacation we want you to take the vacation we want you to save for your vacation we want you to save for your vacation we want you to save for your kids retire or your retirement want you kids retire or your retirement want you kids retire or your retirement want you to save for your kids education we want to save for your kids education we want to save for your kids education we want you to have money in the bank in an you to have money in the bank in an you to have money in the bank in an emergency fund da da d d d da and we emergency fund da da d d d da and we emergency fund da da d d d da and we also think you should give generously also think you should give generously also think you should give generously right but it's what you we want for you right but it's what you we want for you right but it's what you we want for you rather than what we just want from you rather than what we just want from you rather than what we just want from you so that that seemed to really change the so that that seemed to really change the so that that seemed to really change the money game for us and and that's kind of money game for us and and that's kind of money game for us and and that's kind of what you're doing right it's like this what you're doing right it's like this what you're doing right it's like this is about what we want for you I will is about what we want for you I will is about what we want for you I will teach you you know how you can actually teach you you know how you can actually teach you you know how you can actually have some more money it is I love that have some more money it is I love that have some more money it is I love that Vision it's it's there's a great book Vision it's it's there's a great book Vision it's it's there's a great book that I've read before um by I think that I've read before um by I think that I've read before um by I think Charles green is the author um the Charles green is the author um the Charles green is the author um the trusted advisor and what they talk about trusted advisor and what they talk about trusted advisor and what they talk about whether you a lawyer uh or or any kind whether you a lawyer uh or or any kind whether you a lawyer uh or or any kind of of of adviser that often means that means adviser that often means that means adviser that often means that means putting your client first it's as Jay putting your client first it's as Jay putting your client first it's as Jay Abraham says putting them at the center Abraham says putting them at the center Abraham says putting them at the center of your world and when you do that of your world and when you do that of your world and when you do that sometimes you do it to your own sometimes you do it to your own sometimes you do it to your own financial detriment in the short term financial detriment in the short term financial detriment in the short term but you always tell people why you are but you always tell people why you are but you always tell people why you are doing it and it's critical in my doing it and it's critical in my doing it and it's critical in my business for example I don't allow business for example I don't allow business for example I don't allow people with credit card debt to join my people with credit card debt to join my people with credit card debt to join my FL ship or very expensive programs that

FL ship or very expensive programs that FL ship or very expensive programs that cost me millions and millions of dollars cost me millions and millions of dollars cost me millions and millions of dollars it's a lot of money but it is the right it's a lot of money but it is the right it's a lot of money but it is the right thing to do ethically and it's also um thing to do ethically and it's also um thing to do ethically and it's also um me being a trusted advisor and saying me being a trusted advisor and saying me being a trusted advisor and saying look I want you to pay off your debt look I want you to pay off your debt look I want you to pay off your debt here's a free chapter from my book use here's a free chapter from my book use here's a free chapter from my book use it and when the time is right I'll be it and when the time is right I'll be it and when the time is right I'll be here come back and those folks who come here come back and those folks who come here come back and those folks who come back are the most committed because they back are the most committed because they back are the most committed because they know I'm not here to get a quick Buck know I'm not here to get a quick Buck know I'm not here to get a quick Buck I'm here to build a lifelong I'm here to build a lifelong I'm here to build a lifelong relationship with them I think um if relationship with them I think um if relationship with them I think um if churches take your advice which I hope churches take your advice which I hope churches take your advice which I hope they do and they talk about um how to they do and they talk about um how to they do and they talk about um how to work for how to have your money work for work for how to have your money work for work for how to have your money work for you and what churches want for you you and what churches want for you you and what churches want for you rather than from you they might give rather than from you they might give rather than from you they might give certain advice they might say certain advice they might say certain advice they might say um first off I want you to be um first off I want you to be um first off I want you to be financially secure because you're financially secure because you're financially secure because you're present when you are financially secure present when you are financially secure present when you are financially secure your family is secure you can sleep at your family is secure you can sleep at your family is secure you can sleep at night you're a better husband wife night you're a better husband wife night you're a better husband wife father mother all of the above so this father mother all of the above so this father mother all of the above so this important um next it's you have to talk important um next it's you have to talk important um next it's you have to talk about the things that are important to about the things that are important to about the things that are important to you we rarely talk about money in you we rarely talk about money in you we rarely talk about money in families in fact the way we describe it families in fact the way we describe it families in fact the way we describe it in American culture is have you had the in American culture is have you had the in American culture is have you had the conversation about money the would you conversation about money the would you conversation about money the would you have the conversation about parenting no have the conversation about parenting no have the conversation about parenting no would you have the conversation about would you have the conversation about would you have the conversation about elderly or ill parents no you would have elderly or ill parents no you would have elderly or ill parents no you would have lots of conversations lots of conversations lots of conversations and in fact you would have to find a way and in fact you would have to find a way and in fact you would have to find a way to enjoy those conversations otherwise

to enjoy those conversations otherwise to enjoy those conversations otherwise you wouldn't have them anymore so money you wouldn't have them anymore so money you wouldn't have them anymore so money in our culture if we go deeper in our culture if we go deeper in our culture if we go deeper especially in the church there's a very especially in the church there's a very especially in the church there's a very tortured relationship with it you know tortured relationship with it you know tortured relationship with it you know we love money in America we love to look we love money in America we love to look we love money in America we love to look at our friends in Bora Bora on a at our friends in Bora Bora on a at our friends in Bora Bora on a Wednesday and say like I want that or Wednesday and say like I want that or Wednesday and say like I want that or that beautiful jacket they're wearing that beautiful jacket they're wearing that beautiful jacket they're wearing that's okay but also we hate it we hate that's okay but also we hate it we hate that's okay but also we hate it we hate it because when we talk about money um it because when we talk about money um it because when we talk about money um it brings up deep deep seated feelings it brings up deep deep seated feelings it brings up deep deep seated feelings of guilt and shame and often things that of guilt and shame and often things that of guilt and shame and often things that we're passed on from our parents our we're passed on from our parents our we're passed on from our parents our culture maybe even our culture maybe even our culture maybe even our church I don't want that for you I want church I don't want that for you I want church I don't want that for you I want you to have a healthy relationship with you to have a healthy relationship with you to have a healthy relationship with money just as I want you to have a money just as I want you to have a money just as I want you to have a healthy relationship with food just as I healthy relationship with food just as I healthy relationship with food just as I want you to have a healthy relationship want you to have a healthy relationship want you to have a healthy relationship with this congregation so um you know with this congregation so um you know with this congregation so um you know the the way that I say it in plain the the way that I say it in plain the the way that I say it in plain English to my own listeners and readers English to my own listeners and readers English to my own listeners and readers is is is you know when you think of money you you know when you think of money you you know when you think of money you often think of a confusing budget full often think of a confusing budget full often think of a confusing budget full of overwhelming numbers not me when I of overwhelming numbers not me when I of overwhelming numbers not me when I think of money I see a beautiful family think of money I see a beautiful family think of money I see a beautiful family trip to Disneyland for you or the trip to Disneyland for you or the trip to Disneyland for you or the ability to pick up your kids from school ability to pick up your kids from school ability to pick up your kids from school every day or even a beautiful cashmere every day or even a beautiful cashmere every day or even a beautiful cashmere sweater that you wear happily that is sweater that you wear happily that is sweater that you wear happily that is where money can fit into your rich life where money can fit into your rich life where money can fit into your rich life right and to that note I think I think right and to that note I think I think right and to that note I think I think you're right like having sat in the lead you're right like having sat in the lead you're right like having sat in the lead Pastor seat for two decades if I have a Pastor seat for two decades if I have a Pastor seat for two decades if I have a an awkward relationship with money an awkward relationship with money an awkward relationship with money that's going to translate people can that's going to translate people can that's going to translate people can smell that a mile away and so some of

smell that a mile away and so some of smell that a mile away and so some of that is you got to be okay having that that is you got to be okay having that that is you got to be okay having that conversation personally so that's sort conversation personally so that's sort conversation personally so that's sort of you know I want to get into some of of you know I want to get into some of of you know I want to get into some of your new content on this how do you have your new content on this how do you have your new content on this how do you have a good conversation about money a good conversation about money a good conversation about money realizing it is not the talk you know in realizing it is not the talk you know in realizing it is not the talk you know in church language it's not one series that church language it's not one series that church language it's not one series that we did back in 2013 and that takes care we did back in 2013 and that takes care we did back in 2013 and that takes care of it forever but how do you begin what of it forever but how do you begin what of it forever but how do you begin what are the the building blocks of like are the the building blocks of like are the the building blocks of like great conversations about money this great conversations about money this great conversations about money this episode is brought to you by the new episode is brought to you by the new episode is brought to you by the new book by Mark Clark the problem of life book by Mark Clark the problem of life book by Mark Clark the problem of life if you ever wondered why despite having if you ever wondered why despite having if you ever wondered why despite having more money knowledge and comfort than more money knowledge and comfort than more money knowledge and comfort than any generation in history many people any generation in history many people any generation in history many people feel unfulfilled disenchanted and lost feel unfulfilled disenchanted and lost feel unfulfilled disenchanted and lost well that's actually the question that well that's actually the question that well that's actually the question that Mark Clark explores in his compelling Mark Clark explores in his compelling Mark Clark explores in his compelling new book the problem of Life he's got a new book the problem of Life he's got a new book the problem of Life he's got a fusion of biblical theology psychology fusion of biblical theology psychology fusion of biblical theology psychology philosophy deeply human stories and philosophy deeply human stories and philosophy deeply human stories and humor and through it Mark shares 11 humor and through it Mark shares 11 humor and through it Mark shares 11 practical principles to help you reclaim practical principles to help you reclaim practical principles to help you reclaim your identity your purpose and your joy your identity your purpose and your joy your identity your purpose and your joy uh Mark for example tells the story of uh Mark for example tells the story of uh Mark for example tells the story of the time he told a woman her husband was the time he told a woman her husband was the time he told a woman her husband was dead by mistake he had the wrong guy and dead by mistake he had the wrong guy and dead by mistake he had the wrong guy and how he accidentally saved a woman from how he accidentally saved a woman from how he accidentally saved a woman from killing yourself in the process he draws killing yourself in the process he draws killing yourself in the process he draws on everything from personal experiences on everything from personal experiences on everything from personal experiences to theology to psychology to pop culture to theology to psychology to pop culture to theology to psychology to pop culture and offers answers to Life's biggest and offers answers to Life's biggest and offers answers to Life's biggest questions questions about suffering questions questions about suffering questions questions about suffering significance and the search for meaning significance and the search for meaning significance and the search for meaning the problem of Life won't just make you the problem of Life won't just make you the problem of Life won't just make you think it'll change the way you live you

think it'll change the way you live you think it'll change the way you live you can pre-order it now on Amazon or can pre-order it now on Amazon or can pre-order it now on Amazon or wherever you buy your books it's time to wherever you buy your books it's time to wherever you buy your books it's time to stop just existing and start flourishing stop just existing and start flourishing stop just existing and start flourishing with the problem of Life by Mark Clark with the problem of Life by Mark Clark with the problem of Life by Mark Clark you know in in the new book money for you know in in the new book money for you know in in the new book money for couples I I have extensive word for word couples I I have extensive word for word couples I I have extensive word for word scripts on conversations the first thing scripts on conversations the first thing scripts on conversations the first thing I talk about is how to have your first I talk about is how to have your first I talk about is how to have your first positive conversation about money wow positive conversation about money wow positive conversation about money wow remember that many people reading this remember that many people reading this remember that many people reading this have been married for 25 years and they have been married for 25 years and they have been married for 25 years and they have never had a single positive have never had a single positive have never had a single positive conversation about money I talked to conversation about money I talked to conversation about money I talked to them all the time on my podcast many of them all the time on my podcast many of them all the time on my podcast many of them have never even really talked about them have never even really talked about them have never even really talked about money at all sure they've said why'd you money at all sure they've said why'd you money at all sure they've said why'd you buy that at the gas station or I don't buy that at the gas station or I don't buy that at the gas station or I don't know maybe we should get the LX not the know maybe we should get the LX not the know maybe we should get the LX not the DX version of the car but they've never DX version of the car but they've never DX version of the car but they've never really sat down and said what's our really sat down and said what's our really sat down and said what's our philosophy on money what's important to philosophy on money what's important to philosophy on money what's important to you cuz this is important to me and gosh you cuz this is important to me and gosh you cuz this is important to me and gosh I feel kind of embarrassed that I don't I feel kind of embarrassed that I don't I feel kind of embarrassed that I don't know um what a 401k is we've never had know um what a 401k is we've never had know um what a 401k is we've never had those conversations so having your first those conversations so having your first those conversations so having your first positive conversation about money positive conversation about money positive conversation about money involves no numbers none no spreadsheet involves no numbers none no spreadsheet involves no numbers none no spreadsheet no boring budget I hate budgets none of no boring budget I hate budgets none of no boring budget I hate budgets none of it it's simply sitting down and saying it it's simply sitting down and saying it it's simply sitting down and saying you know you know you know what how here's why this conversation is what how here's why this conversation is what how here's why this conversation is going to be awesome going to be awesome going to be awesome and starting off by describing what's and starting off by describing what's and starting off by describing what's going to make it positive I've wanted to going to make it positive I've wanted to going to make it positive I've wanted to talk about money with you for a long talk about money with you for a long talk about money with you for a long time I don't feel I've done a great job

time I don't feel I've done a great job time I don't feel I've done a great job but when we have this conversation about but when we have this conversation about but when we have this conversation about money it's going to be awesome because money it's going to be awesome because money it's going to be awesome because it will allow us to be super honest with it will allow us to be super honest with it will allow us to be super honest with each other and to be open about what we each other and to be open about what we each other and to be open about what we both want and if there are things that both want and if there are things that both want and if there are things that are different for you that's okay we are different for you that's okay we are different for you that's okay we don't have to be the same but it's going don't have to be the same but it's going don't have to be the same but it's going to be awesome because we're going to get to be awesome because we're going to get to be awesome because we're going to get to learn something new about each other to learn something new about each other to learn something new about each other after all these years and then you just after all these years and then you just after all these years and then you just go down the list right in the book you go down the list right in the book you go down the list right in the book you know here's how I currently feel about know here's how I currently feel about know here's how I currently feel about money how about you here's how I want to money how about you here's how I want to money how about you here's how I want to feel about money how about you notice feel about money how about you notice feel about money how about you notice we're tossing the ball back and forth we're tossing the ball back and forth we're tossing the ball back and forth too often when it comes to money there's too often when it comes to money there's too often when it comes to money there's a monologue no it's got to be a dialogue a monologue no it's got to be a dialogue a monologue no it's got to be a dialogue together you got to toss the ball back together you got to toss the ball back together you got to toss the ball back and forth and then what are we gonna do and forth and then what are we gonna do and forth and then what are we gonna do next that's it simple this is five next that's it simple this is five next that's it simple this is five minutes 10 Max wrap it up give each minutes 10 Max wrap it up give each minutes 10 Max wrap it up give each other a high five give each other a hug other a high five give each other a hug other a high five give each other a hug and a kiss call it a day in a lot of the and a kiss call it a day in a lot of the and a kiss call it a day in a lot of the work that I do with couples it's about work that I do with couples it's about work that I do with couples it's about having fun declaring Victory and going having fun declaring Victory and going having fun declaring Victory and going home because we don't have to do it all home because we don't have to do it all home because we don't have to do it all at once we have a life time to build at once we have a life time to build at once we have a life time to build this relationship with money this relationship with money this relationship with money together years ahead do most people end together years ahead do most people end together years ahead do most people end up marrying their opposites I mean I up marrying their opposites I mean I up marrying their opposites I mean I certainly did uh I'm I would be the certainly did uh I'm I would be the certainly did uh I'm I would be the spender oh yeah Tony would be my wife spender oh yeah Tony would be my wife spender oh yeah Tony would be my wife you know she looks as money as security you know she looks as money as security you know she looks as money as security I see it as opportunity uh we'll talk I see it as opportunity uh we'll talk I see it as opportunity uh we'll talk about the four money types but you know about the four money types but you know about the four money types but you know there's that we we often in common there's that we we often in common there's that we we often in common parlons it's the saver versus the parlons it's the saver versus the parlons it's the saver versus the spender and Tony naturally is a saver spender and Tony naturally is a saver spender and Tony naturally is a saver she's really good at that she came into

she's really good at that she came into she's really good at that she came into the marriage with the figure varies I the marriage with the figure varies I the marriage with the figure varies I say it's getting larger as time goes on say it's getting larger as time goes on say it's getting larger as time goes on but you know thousands of dollars in but you know thousands of dollars in but you know thousands of dollars in savings and I came in with $88,000 in savings and I came in with $88,000 in savings and I came in with $88,000 in student debt which we dealt with almost student debt which we dealt with almost student debt which we dealt with almost immediately and I'm like oh you know immediately and I'm like oh you know immediately and I'm like oh you know we'll figure it out and she's like no we we'll figure it out and she's like no we we'll figure it out and she's like no we need a plan and so you know 's right but need a plan and so you know 's right but need a plan and so you know 's right but for us that was decades into our for us that was decades into our for us that was decades into our marriage until we really were able to marriage until we really were able to marriage until we really were able to have and now we've had years with have and now we've had years with have and now we've had years with positive conversations but that was positive conversations but that was positive conversations but that was really tough and it seems to be and most really tough and it seems to be and most really tough and it seems to be and most of the couples I talk to you talk to way of the couples I talk to you talk to way of the couples I talk to you talk to way more about money than I do don't have an more about money than I do don't have an more about money than I do don't have an initial alignment we're like oh well initial alignment we're like oh well initial alignment we're like oh well that's funny that's exactly how I feel that's funny that's exactly how I feel that's funny that's exactly how I feel you feel that way too oh that's what I you feel that way too oh that's what I you feel that way too oh that's what I think yes we all agree okay end of think yes we all agree okay end of think yes we all agree okay end of conversation almost never goes that way conversation almost never goes that way conversation almost never goes that way or does it it's a really interesting or does it it's a really interesting or does it it's a really interesting question of do we end up marrying our question of do we end up marrying our question of do we end up marrying our opposite and I will I'll have to say no opposite and I will I'll have to say no opposite and I will I'll have to say no but not for the reason you think um most but not for the reason you think um most but not for the reason you think um most people when they get married do not even people when they get married do not even people when they get married do not even understand their own philosophy on understand their own philosophy on understand their own philosophy on money they don't if I asked them um what money they don't if I asked them um what money they don't if I asked them um what is your philosophy on your savings rate is your philosophy on your savings rate is your philosophy on your savings rate they would say huh I would say how do they would say huh I would say how do they would say huh I would say how do you make the tradeoff between uh you make the tradeoff between uh you make the tradeoff between uh investing now or spending on investing now or spending on investing now or spending on discretionary discretionary discretionary things huh again I'm not making fun of things huh again I'm not making fun of things huh again I'm not making fun of anybody this just we are not taught nor anybody this just we are not taught nor anybody this just we are not taught nor do we quote need to ask these questions do we quote need to ask these questions do we quote need to ask these questions for most people money is as simple and

for most people money is as simple and for most people money is as simple and even simplistic as I get paid on this even simplistic as I get paid on this even simplistic as I get paid on this date my bills are due on that date as date my bills are due on that date as date my bills are due on that date as long as I have something in my checking long as I have something in my checking long as I have something in my checking account I'm fine that is literally how account I'm fine that is literally how account I'm fine that is literally how most people go through life with money most people go through life with money most people go through life with money again I'm not blam I have deep again I'm not blam I have deep again I'm not blam I have deep compassion for it because that's how I compassion for it because that's how I compassion for it because that's how I treat my car get inside as long as the treat my car get inside as long as the treat my car get inside as long as the lights work I'm good I don't really care lights work I'm good I don't really care lights work I'm good I don't really care how this mechanism works just get me how this mechanism works just get me how this mechanism works just get me where I want to go leave me alone so where I want to go leave me alone so where I want to go leave me alone so that's how we treat money and so person that's how we treat money and so person that's how we treat money and so person one does not really have a philosophy on one does not really have a philosophy on one does not really have a philosophy on money person two does not have a money person two does not have a money person two does not have a philosophy on money however they've both philosophy on money however they've both philosophy on money however they've both observed things we are little detectives observed things we are little detectives observed things we are little detectives we saw mom stressing out at the end of we saw mom stressing out at the end of we saw mom stressing out at the end of the month with her checkbook paying the month with her checkbook paying the month with her checkbook paying bills so we think hm I guess moms are bills so we think hm I guess moms are bills so we think hm I guess moms are the one who have to pay the bills and the one who have to pay the bills and the one who have to pay the bills and take on the stress and dad is the one take on the stress and dad is the one take on the stress and dad is the one who quote earns the money these are who quote earns the money these are who quote earns the money these are things we pick up from culture and from things we pick up from culture and from things we pick up from culture and from our own families then you get partner our own families then you get partner our own families then you get partner one who doesn't have a philosophy one who doesn't have a philosophy one who doesn't have a philosophy partner two who doesn't have a partner two who doesn't have a partner two who doesn't have a philosophy and then you have the two of philosophy and then you have the two of philosophy and then you have the two of you getting together in a multiplicative you getting together in a multiplicative you getting together in a multiplicative way so it's like 1 Time 1 equals 10 of way so it's like 1 Time 1 equals 10 of way so it's like 1 Time 1 equals 10 of confusion and it only shows up when very confusion and it only shows up when very confusion and it only shows up when very particular things happen like you have particular things happen like you have particular things happen like you have kids like you go to buy a house etc for kids like you go to buy a house etc for kids like you go to buy a house etc for the most part as you pointed out the most part as you pointed out the most part as you pointed out yourself you can go decades without yourself you can go decades without yourself you can go decades without really talking about money and that is really talking about money and that is really talking about money and that is my plea to couples you don't have to go my plea to couples you don't have to go my plea to couples you don't have to go decades you don't have to fight about

decades you don't have to fight about decades you don't have to fight about money you can actually have positive money you can actually have positive money you can actually have positive conversations about money and also you conversations about money and also you conversations about money and also you can live a much bigger richer life if can live a much bigger richer life if can live a much bigger richer life if the two of you are aligned and Rowing in the two of you are aligned and Rowing in the two of you are aligned and Rowing in the same direction I love the Simplicity the same direction I love the Simplicity the same direction I love the Simplicity of your money types can you walk as of your money types can you walk as of your money types can you walk as briefly through the four money types briefly through the four money types briefly through the four money types that you've identified yeah speaking to that you've identified yeah speaking to that you've identified yeah speaking to many many many people over the last 20 many many many people over the last 20 many many many people over the last 20 years uh it's clear that particularly in years uh it's clear that particularly in years uh it's clear that particularly in couples there are money types and you'll couples there are money types and you'll couples there are money types and you'll see them everywhere the first is the see them everywhere the first is the see them everywhere the first is the most common the avoider avoiders will do most common the avoider avoiders will do most common the avoider avoiders will do anything they can to avoid anything they can to avoid anything they can to avoid money the second is the optimizer I am money the second is the optimizer I am money the second is the optimizer I am an example of an Optimizer somebody who an example of an Optimizer somebody who an example of an Optimizer somebody who loves to run a Monte Carlo analysis or loves to run a Monte Carlo analysis or loves to run a Monte Carlo analysis or plan what if we do this what about 30 plan what if we do this what about 30 plan what if we do this what about 30 years from now what about that that's an years from now what about that that's an years from now what about that that's an Optimizer a worrier is somebody who Optimizer a worrier is somebody who Optimizer a worrier is somebody who whose relationship with money is best whose relationship with money is best whose relationship with money is best characterized by simply worry are we characterized by simply worry are we characterized by simply worry are we gonna have enough what if we run out gonna have enough what if we run out gonna have enough what if we run out Etc um and that is typically regardless Etc um and that is typically regardless Etc um and that is typically regardless of how much money they have they often of how much money they have they often of how much money they have they often don't even know how much money they have don't even know how much money they have don't even know how much money they have but they certainly know how to worry and but they certainly know how to worry and but they certainly know how to worry and finally there is the dreamer the dreamer finally there is the dreamer the dreamer finally there is the dreamer the dreamer might sound positive but it's actually a might sound positive but it's actually a might sound positive but it's actually a very difficult partner to live with very difficult partner to live with very difficult partner to live with because the dreamer believes that because the dreamer believes that because the dreamer believes that success is simply one deal away one gig success is simply one deal away one gig success is simply one deal away one gig one getrich quick scheme away they are one getrich quick scheme away they are one getrich quick scheme away they are allergic to allergic to allergic to long-term sensible money management and

long-term sensible money management and long-term sensible money management and investing they're looking for that quick investing they're looking for that quick investing they're looking for that quick fix and and they they are typified for fix and and they they are typified for fix and and they they are typified for example uh in the book I described the example uh in the book I described the example uh in the book I described the exact phrases they use but one of the exact phrases they use but one of the exact phrases they use but one of the ways they say it is I don't want a ways they say it is I don't want a ways they say it is I don't want a nine-to-five job basically implying that nine-to-five job basically implying that nine-to-five job basically implying that that's for losers and I don't think that's for losers and I don't think that's for losers and I don't think having a 9 to-5 job is for losers at all having a 9 to-5 job is for losers at all having a 9 to-5 job is for losers at all I think often sensible lowcost long-term I think often sensible lowcost long-term I think often sensible lowcost long-term investing and a a wellp paying job is a investing and a a wellp paying job is a investing and a a wellp paying job is a really good thing so avoider Optimizer really good thing so avoider Optimizer really good thing so avoider Optimizer worrier and dreamer you may be one you worrier and dreamer you may be one you worrier and dreamer you may be one you may have combinations of multiple the may have combinations of multiple the may have combinations of multiple the good news is you can change it um the good news is you can change it um the good news is you can change it um the even better news is you're never going even better news is you're never going even better news is you're never going to change yourself deep down but you can to change yourself deep down but you can to change yourself deep down but you can add another layer just like we can add a add another layer just like we can add a add another layer just like we can add a new palette a new taste that we like you new palette a new taste that we like you new palette a new taste that we like you know maybe I don't like pickles I can know maybe I don't like pickles I can know maybe I don't like pickles I can learn to like pickles well guess what learn to like pickles well guess what learn to like pickles well guess what maybe I'm a worrier but I can also learn maybe I'm a worrier but I can also learn maybe I'm a worrier but I can also learn to focus on growth and to feel safer to focus on growth and to feel safer to focus on growth and to feel safer sure it will always be there a little sure it will always be there a little sure it will always be there a little bit in me that's okay that's who I am bit in me that's okay that's who I am bit in me that's okay that's who I am fine but I can add on a new layer to my fine but I can add on a new layer to my fine but I can add on a new layer to my financial financial financial palette I think that's a really good way palette I think that's a really good way palette I think that's a really good way of thinking about it and you know one of of thinking about it and you know one of of thinking about it and you know one of the things I want to get into in this the things I want to get into in this the things I want to get into in this next part of the conversation remet is next part of the conversation remet is next part of the conversation remet is a lot of people listening will look out a lot of people listening will look out a lot of people listening will look out over dozens hundreds thousands literally over dozens hundreds thousands literally over dozens hundreds thousands literally some tens of thousands of people on a some tens of thousands of people on a some tens of thousands of people on a weekend and they're going to do a money weekend and they're going to do a money weekend and they're going to do a money series and often we're basing it on series and often we're basing it on series and often we're basing it on anecdotal stuff that we've picked up but anecdotal stuff that we've picked up but anecdotal stuff that we've picked up but we're not financial counselors like you

we're not financial counselors like you we're not financial counselors like you are or you know a couple of articles are or you know a couple of articles are or you know a couple of articles that we read in research or you know that we read in research or you know that we read in research or you know just what we think we're trying to read just what we think we're trying to read just what we think we're trying to read minds like what are people actually minds like what are people actually minds like what are people actually arguing about but you've had the arguing about but you've had the arguing about but you've had the privilege over 20 years and on your privilege over 20 years and on your privilege over 20 years and on your podcast interviewing well over 200 podcast interviewing well over 200 podcast interviewing well over 200 couples directly on this all the couples directly on this all the couples directly on this all the research for your book I would love to research for your book I would love to research for your book I would love to know if you're advising the know if you're advising the know if you're advising the communicators the preachers who are communicators the preachers who are communicators the preachers who are going to do a series on money what is going to do a series on money what is going to do a series on money what is going on in the minds hearts and lives going on in the minds hearts and lives going on in the minds hearts and lives of the people that they're speaking to of the people that they're speaking to of the people that they're speaking to because CHR guess what Christians have because CHR guess what Christians have because CHR guess what Christians have problems too believe it or not we have a problems too believe it or not we have a problems too believe it or not we have a lot of problems we're just people right lot of problems we're just people right lot of problems we're just people right and so when you look at money I don't and so when you look at money I don't and so when you look at money I don't know that we're fundamentally different know that we're fundamentally different know that we're fundamentally different other than theoretically we're supposed other than theoretically we're supposed other than theoretically we're supposed to characterize or prioritize generosity to characterize or prioritize generosity to characterize or prioritize generosity So based on that what are the top two or So based on that what are the top two or So based on that what are the top two or three issues that you've learned most three issues that you've learned most three issues that you've learned most couples are just going to struggle with couples are just going to struggle with couples are just going to struggle with when it comes to when it comes to when it comes to money the first is that they don't know money the first is that they don't know money the first is that they don't know their basic their basic their basic numbers and um I think this is very hard numbers and um I think this is very hard numbers and um I think this is very hard for people to understand and believe and for people to understand and believe and for people to understand and believe and certainly to accept most of us have a certainly to accept most of us have a certainly to accept most of us have a view that humans are rational robots and view that humans are rational robots and view that humans are rational robots and that if there's something you care about that if there's something you care about that if there's something you care about then you would understand it but did then you would understand it but did then you would understand it but did everyone heard what I said just a couple everyone heard what I said just a couple everyone heard what I said just a couple minutes ago I'm a pretty smart guy and I minutes ago I'm a pretty smart guy and I minutes ago I'm a pretty smart guy and I don't know how my car Works nor do I don't know how my car Works nor do I don't know how my car Works nor do I care to I wanted my bonsai tree to live care to I wanted my bonsai tree to live care to I wanted my bonsai tree to live but I didn't even read a small little but I didn't even read a small little but I didn't even read a small little children's book so what does that say children's book so what does that say children's book so what does that say about me and this is important it

about me and this is important it about me and this is important it doesn't mean I'm stupid it doesn't mean doesn't mean I'm stupid it doesn't mean doesn't mean I'm stupid it doesn't mean I'm a bad person I have a limited I'm a bad person I have a limited I'm a bad person I have a limited attention attention attention and candidly if you just look at my and candidly if you just look at my and candidly if you just look at my behavior I'd probably rather watch t behavior I'd probably rather watch t behavior I'd probably rather watch t then learn how my uh long since past then learn how my uh long since past then learn how my uh long since past bonsai tree needs to be fed and what I bonsai tree needs to be fed and what I bonsai tree needs to be fed and what I don't know what that says about me but don't know what that says about me but don't know what that says about me but that's the truth so when it comes to that's the truth so when it comes to that's the truth so when it comes to money if you ask people is it important money if you ask people is it important money if you ask people is it important to you of course they'll say yes you ask to you of course they'll say yes you ask to you of course they'll say yes you ask them you know has it been a source of um them you know has it been a source of um them you know has it been a source of um stress yes and then if you ask him this stress yes and then if you ask him this stress yes and then if you ask him this one Clincher question have you read a one Clincher question have you read a one Clincher question have you read a single book about personal finance in single book about personal finance in single book about personal finance in your life they'll go oh well I started your life they'll go oh well I started your life they'll go oh well I started this one book I'm on page three I go this one book I'm on page three I go this one book I'm on page three I go look it's fine it's fine you haven't look it's fine it's fine you haven't look it's fine it's fine you haven't done it yet that's okay let me paint the done it yet that's okay let me paint the done it yet that's okay let me paint the picture for you so that's step one is picture for you so that's step one is picture for you so that's step one is just um people get into trouble because just um people get into trouble because just um people get into trouble because they don't know the basic language and they don't know the basic language and they don't know the basic language and you can't succeed at something if you you can't succeed at something if you you can't succeed at something if you don't know the basic language theyve don't know the basic language theyve don't know the basic language theyve never read a book candidly my own never read a book candidly my own never read a book candidly my own audience over half of them has not read audience over half of them has not read audience over half of them has not read my book my book's in every library and my book my book's in every library and my book my book's in every library and bookstore anywhere that's life you a bookstore anywhere that's life you a bookstore anywhere that's life you a million copies I think yeah you so it's million copies I think yeah you so it's million copies I think yeah you so it's easy to find um and that's okay that's easy to find um and that's okay that's easy to find um and that's okay that's human nature they they may read it when human nature they they may read it when human nature they they may read it when there's a reason for them to or they may there's a reason for them to or they may there's a reason for them to or they may never read it that's also okay um so the never read it that's also okay um so the never read it that's also okay um so the first reason people get into trouble is first reason people get into trouble is first reason people get into trouble is uh they don't know their basic numbers uh they don't know their basic numbers uh they don't know their basic numbers they don't understand what a 401k is or

they don't understand what a 401k is or they don't understand what a 401k is or the difference between you know an index the difference between you know an index the difference between you know an index fund and an annuity that's first can I fund and an annuity that's first can I fund and an annuity that's first can I don't want to interrupt you can I add a don't want to interrupt you can I add a don't want to interrupt you can I add a little Nuance as a frequent podcast little Nuance as a frequent podcast little Nuance as a frequent podcast listener to your show sometimes that listener to your show sometimes that listener to your show sometimes that includes they don't know how much money includes they don't know how much money includes they don't know how much money they make 50% of the couples I speak to they make 50% of the couples I speak to they make 50% of the couples I speak to do not know their household income do not know their household income do not know their household income that's 5 not a typo that is a great that's 5 not a typo that is a great that's 5 not a typo that is a great example that really that really typifies example that really that really typifies example that really that really typifies how little we engage with money now you how little we engage with money now you how little we engage with money now you have to have to have to ask if you're at all intellectually ask if you're at all intellectually ask if you're at all intellectually curious you'll go how is that possible curious you'll go how is that possible curious you'll go how is that possible and your first reaction might be to say and your first reaction might be to say and your first reaction might be to say Well they're just uh outliers or they're Well they're just uh outliers or they're Well they're just uh outliers or they're just they're stupid or then you just dis just they're stupid or then you just dis just they're stupid or then you just dis well well they just don't care wrong well well they just don't care wrong well well they just don't care wrong stop you have to go deeper and say what stop you have to go deeper and say what stop you have to go deeper and say what is it about money that would cause 50% is it about money that would cause 50% is it about money that would cause 50% which is a very large cross-section of which is a very large cross-section of which is a very large cross-section of people who apply to a podcast that's a people who apply to a podcast that's a people who apply to a podcast that's a highly self- selected group that highly self- selected group that highly self- selected group that theoretically should be way more um to theoretically should be way more um to theoretically should be way more um to not know their household income and the not know their household income and the not know their household income and the answer is most people don't really care answer is most people don't really care answer is most people don't really care as long as money is coming into their as long as money is coming into their as long as money is coming into their checking account and their cable is checking account and their cable is checking account and their cable is still working that the extent of it now still working that the extent of it now still working that the extent of it now that is where you have to start that is that is where you have to start that is that is where you have to start that is where you engage with people um and just where you engage with people um and just where you engage with people um and just saying look that's okay I don't know a saying look that's okay I don't know a saying look that's okay I don't know a lot about X but I also realize that lot about X but I also realize that lot about X but I also realize that money is important it's unlike you know money is important it's unlike you know money is important it's unlike you know watering a plant it's far more important watering a plant it's far more important watering a plant it's far more important because it's do we have the ability to

because it's do we have the ability to because it's do we have the ability to have children where do they go to school have children where do they go to school have children where do they go to school what about date night for us so we can what about date night for us so we can what about date night for us so we can connect as a couple what about the connect as a couple what about the connect as a couple what about the important values that we have how are we important values that we have how are we important values that we have how are we using money and time to live up to those using money and time to live up to those using money and time to live up to those that's money so that's number one they that's money so that's number one they that's money so that's number one they don't pay attention NE uh sorry number don't pay attention NE uh sorry number don't pay attention NE uh sorry number one is they don't know basic numbers one is they don't know basic numbers one is they don't know basic numbers number two is they don't pay attention number two is they don't pay attention number two is they don't pay attention to it uh money is often thought of as to it uh money is often thought of as to it uh money is often thought of as something that is a nuisance uh as something that is a nuisance uh as something that is a nuisance uh as something that we fight about you know something that we fight about you know something that we fight about you know every couple of months and then we paper every couple of months and then we paper every couple of months and then we paper over it and wait until the next fight over it and wait until the next fight over it and wait until the next fight but there's a lack of joy around money but there's a lack of joy around money but there's a lack of joy around money my wife and I love talking about money my wife and I love talking about money my wife and I love talking about money we have a regular monthly uh money we have a regular monthly uh money we have a regular monthly uh money meeting which I describe the agenda of meeting which I describe the agenda of meeting which I describe the agenda of in the book exact agenda we also have a in the book exact agenda we also have a in the book exact agenda we also have a annual Rich Life review where we sit annual Rich Life review where we sit annual Rich Life review where we sit down for several days you know and it down for several days you know and it down for several days you know and it could be you go to a cafe spend a couple could be you go to a cafe spend a couple could be you go to a cafe spend a couple hours and then go for a walk or it could hours and then go for a walk or it could hours and then go for a walk or it could be we often travel and we're walking be we often travel and we're walking be we often travel and we're walking around a beautiful city and we're just around a beautiful city and we're just around a beautiful city and we're just talking we're talking about what do we talking we're talking about what do we talking we're talking about what do we want to do more of next year what do we want to do more of next year what do we want to do more of next year what do we want to do less of what was really want to do less of what was really want to do less of what was really meaningful to us you know what would be meaningful to us you know what would be meaningful to us you know what would be magical next year and so we're starting magical next year and so we're starting magical next year and so we're starting from a place of from a place of from a place of possibility you we'll get to the the possibility you we'll get to the the possibility you we'll get to the the spreadsheet and we'll get to the actuals spreadsheet and we'll get to the actuals spreadsheet and we'll get to the actuals versus the this and that yes and if you versus the this and that yes and if you versus the this and that yes and if you have debt yes of course you have to have debt yes of course you have to have debt yes of course you have to check in on your debt payoff progress check in on your debt payoff progress check in on your debt payoff progress but you always start from a place of but you always start from a place of but you always start from a place of vision the final reason people get into vision the final reason people get into vision the final reason people get into trouble is they want someone to rescue trouble is they want someone to rescue trouble is they want someone to rescue them sometimes it's their husband them sometimes it's their husband them sometimes it's their husband sometimes it's their wife sometimes it's sometimes it's their wife sometimes it's sometimes it's their wife sometimes it's just somebody but not me and my message

just somebody but not me and my message just somebody but not me and my message is nobody's coming to rescue you it's up is nobody's coming to rescue you it's up is nobody's coming to rescue you it's up to you and you actually can do a much to you and you actually can do a much to you and you actually can do a much better job than you may even think is better job than you may even think is better job than you may even think is possible h possible h possible h now the other thing that I think you now the other thing that I think you now the other thing that I think you know because most pastors despite the know because most pastors despite the know because most pastors despite the headlines are not super high income headlines are not super high income headlines are not super high income earners right you have a few people with earners right you have a few people with earners right you have a few people with private jets I get that that that that private jets I get that that that that private jets I get that that that that there's there's a handful okay most there's there's a handful okay most there's there's a handful okay most people listening to the show are are people listening to the show are are people listening to the show are are fairly paid but they're not make a bank fairly paid but they're not make a bank fairly paid but they're not make a bank if you know what I mean and so sometimes if you know what I mean and so sometimes if you know what I mean and so sometimes you see the entrepreneur there's a RIT you see the entrepreneur there's a RIT you see the entrepreneur there's a RIT who shows up at your church and you're who shows up at your church and you're who shows up at your church and you're like RIT doesn't have any money issues like RIT doesn't have any money issues like RIT doesn't have any money issues he's great yet what I've discovered from he's great yet what I've discovered from he's great yet what I've discovered from your work is high income earners get your work is high income earners get your work is high income earners get into money troubles too or they have a a into money troubles too or they have a a into money troubles too or they have a a bad relationship with money as well what bad relationship with money as well what bad relationship with money as well what are some of the the frequent issues you are some of the the frequent issues you are some of the the frequent issues you run across when it comes to high income run across when it comes to high income run across when it comes to high income earners what problems do you see earners what problems do you see earners what problems do you see frequently this is a great question frequently this is a great question frequently this is a great question because this is a highly under discussed because this is a highly under discussed because this is a highly under discussed topic for um for several reasons it's topic for um for several reasons it's topic for um for several reasons it's Politically Incorrect to talk about Politically Incorrect to talk about Politically Incorrect to talk about people who have money and still have people who have money and still have people who have money and still have problems everyone's like boohoo must be problems everyone's like boohoo must be problems everyone's like boohoo must be tough tough tough rich people problems yeah exactly and rich people problems yeah exactly and rich people problems yeah exactly and and that's number one and also um people and that's number one and also um people and that's number one and also um people with a lot of money often don't like to with a lot of money often don't like to with a lot of money often don't like to talk about it for the for that exact talk about it for the for that exact talk about it for the for that exact reason they get um kind of destroyed on reason they get um kind of destroyed on reason they get um kind of destroyed on TV or online well I actually love TV or online well I actually love TV or online well I actually love speaking to people from all over the speaking to people from all over the speaking to people from all over the Spectrum including High income I love it Spectrum including High income I love it Spectrum including High income I love it because I know most areas of that

because I know most areas of that because I know most areas of that Spectrum I grew up quite Frugal with my Spectrum I grew up quite Frugal with my Spectrum I grew up quite Frugal with my family both immigrants from India and family both immigrants from India and family both immigrants from India and you know we had a pretty big family and you know we had a pretty big family and you know we had a pretty big family and we're talking about like packing lunches we're talking about like packing lunches we're talking about like packing lunches and the only vacations we typically took and the only vacations we typically took and the only vacations we typically took were in our van driving down to visit were in our van driving down to visit were in our van driving down to visit our family you know and then having our family you know and then having our family you know and then having grown my business for 20 years I've grown my business for 20 years I've grown my business for 20 years I've experienced another part of that experienced another part of that experienced another part of that Spectrum so I love to be able to connect Spectrum so I love to be able to connect Spectrum so I love to be able to connect with people at almost every level and of with people at almost every level and of with people at almost every level and of course I bring in folks who grew up with course I bring in folks who grew up with course I bring in folks who grew up with even far less than I did for people who even far less than I did for people who even far less than I did for people who have have have money um they often have uh many money um they often have uh many money um they often have uh many problems and problems and problems and the the problem that they typically have the the problem that they typically have the the problem that they typically have as it relates to money is they believe as it relates to money is they believe as it relates to money is they believe deeply that if I just have 50,000 a deeply that if I just have 50,000 a deeply that if I just have 50,000 a 100,000 500,000 more 5 million more then 100,000 500,000 more 5 million more then 100,000 500,000 more 5 million more then I will finally stop worrying about money I will finally stop worrying about money I will finally stop worrying about money and again I'm asking you to suspend your and again I'm asking you to suspend your and again I'm asking you to suspend your disbelief if you're listening to me talk disbelief if you're listening to me talk disbelief if you're listening to me talk about some multi-millionaire who's about some multi-millionaire who's about some multi-millionaire who's worried about it it's actually really worried about it it's actually really worried about it it's actually really it's a crystal ball into your future it's a crystal ball into your future it's a crystal ball into your future here's why here's why here's why all of us most of us deeply believe that all of us most of us deeply believe that all of us most of us deeply believe that if we just had X dollar more we would if we just had X dollar more we would if we just had X dollar more we would stop worrying about money and I'm here stop worrying about money and I'm here stop worrying about money and I'm here to tell you that is untrue it is untrue to tell you that is untrue it is untrue to tell you that is untrue it is untrue because I've talked to because I've talked to because I've talked to multi-millionaires on my podcast who multi-millionaires on my podcast who multi-millionaires on my podcast who still agonize over the price of still agonize over the price of still agonize over the price of blueberries who still will not allow blueberries who still will not allow blueberries who still will not allow themselves to upgrade their seat or in

themselves to upgrade their seat or in themselves to upgrade their seat or in one haunting case I had um a family a one haunting case I had um a family a one haunting case I had um a family a couple came on my podcast and uh this couple came on my podcast and uh this couple came on my podcast and uh this woman had had a medical procedure she woman had had a medical procedure she woman had had a medical procedure she had had a transplant and she had she had had had a transplant and she had she had had had a transplant and she had she had recovered she was doing well but she had recovered she was doing well but she had recovered she was doing well but she had a limited time left she knew how many a limited time left she knew how many a limited time left she knew how many years she had left and she had she had years she had left and she had she had years she had left and she had she had done quite well she had millions of done quite well she had millions of done quite well she had millions of dollars she had two young daughters dollars she had two young daughters dollars she had two young daughters around the age of 10 she said I want to around the age of 10 she said I want to around the age of 10 she said I want to spend a lot of time with them in my spend a lot of time with them in my spend a lot of time with them in my remaining years left I said great let's remaining years left I said great let's remaining years left I said great let's do it how can I help she said but I do it how can I help she said but I do it how can I help she said but I don't want to quit my job why why she don't want to quit my job why why she don't want to quit my job why why she said because I love my income so I want said because I love my income so I want said because I love my income so I want everyone to listen this is literally everyone to listen this is literally everyone to listen this is literally life or death this is a mother who has a life or death this is a mother who has a life or death this is a mother who has a husband and two young daughters and she husband and two young daughters and she husband and two young daughters and she has a chance to spend quality time with has a chance to spend quality time with has a chance to spend quality time with them in her remaining time we all have a them in her remaining time we all have a them in her remaining time we all have a ticking clock she just happened to know ticking clock she just happened to know ticking clock she just happened to know when hers would roughly end and she when hers would roughly end and she when hers would roughly end and she could not tear herself even as a could not tear herself even as a could not tear herself even as a multi-millionaire away from her job now multi-millionaire away from her job now multi-millionaire away from her job now what that really shows is that you what that really shows is that you what that really shows is that you getting another 50k is probably not getting another 50k is probably not getting another 50k is probably not going to change the way you feel about going to change the way you feel about going to change the way you feel about money in fact here's here's a phrase I money in fact here's here's a phrase I money in fact here's here's a phrase I want everyone to internalize the way you want everyone to internalize the way you want everyone to internalize the way you feel about money is highly uncorrelated feel about money is highly uncorrelated feel about money is highly uncorrelated to the amount in your bank so you can to the amount in your bank so you can to the amount in your bank so you can have negative 00k you can have positive have negative 00k you can have positive have negative 00k you can have positive 250k or even 7 million you will probably 250k or even 7 million you will probably 250k or even 7 million you will probably still feel the same way and there is an still feel the same way and there is an still feel the same way and there is an antidote two things first you got to antidote two things first you got to antidote two things first you got to know your numbers you have to understand

know your numbers you have to understand know your numbers you have to understand the language of personal finance it's the language of personal finance it's the language of personal finance it's not that complicated you can read my not that complicated you can read my not that complicated you can read my book you can learn this stuff two you book you can learn this stuff two you book you can learn this stuff two you got to work on your money psychology you got to work on your money psychology you got to work on your money psychology you have to master it you have to practice have to master it you have to practice have to master it you have to practice abundance you have to practice abundance you have to practice abundance you have to practice generosity these are skills they don't generosity these are skills they don't generosity these are skills they don't come naturally if you do those two come naturally if you do those two come naturally if you do those two things you can change the way you feel things you can change the way you feel things you can change the way you feel about money you can do it today and you about money you can do it today and you about money you can do it today and you can do it for the long term see this is can do it for the long term see this is can do it for the long term see this is what's so valuable about that thank you what's so valuable about that thank you what's so valuable about that thank you for going there in in in the answer for going there in in in the answer for going there in in in the answer because I think a lot of times church because I think a lot of times church because I think a lot of times church leaders look out and they know they have leaders look out and they know they have leaders look out and they know they have high netw worth individuals and they're high netw worth individuals and they're high netw worth individuals and they're like why are you not giving to our like why are you not giving to our like why are you not giving to our Capital campaign what is like you know Capital campaign what is like you know Capital campaign what is like you know and we think oh if I had that much money and we think oh if I had that much money and we think oh if I had that much money I'd be writing six seven figure checks I'd be writing six seven figure checks I'd be writing six seven figure checks and what they don't realize what's hard and what they don't realize what's hard and what they don't realize what's hard for me to realize as a pastor is oh no for me to realize as a pastor is oh no for me to realize as a pastor is oh no they have problems too it doesn't go they have problems too it doesn't go they have problems too it doesn't go away right yeah they they have problems away right yeah they they have problems away right yeah they they have problems yes definitely um I think this is yes definitely um I think this is yes definitely um I think this is a it's hard you know if for example you a it's hard you know if for example you a it's hard you know if for example you gave the example of a pastor who's not gave the example of a pastor who's not gave the example of a pastor who's not making a lot of money and you are making a lot of money and you are making a lot of money and you are talking to folks who have a high net talking to folks who have a high net talking to folks who have a high net worth and it's almost like a caricature worth and it's almost like a caricature worth and it's almost like a caricature like oh those are the rich people let me like oh those are the rich people let me like oh those are the rich people let me just knock on the glass and they should just knock on the glass and they should just knock on the glass and they should pump out money and my my feeling is pump out money and my my feeling is pump out money and my my feeling is first we have to find a way to connect first we have to find a way to connect first we have to find a way to connect with them okay they probably have things with them okay they probably have things with them okay they probably have things going on that are not immediately going on that are not immediately going on that are not immediately obvious I also think that I have tried obvious I also think that I have tried obvious I also think that I have tried to raise money and I want to give a to raise money and I want to give a to raise money and I want to give a shout out to anyone who tries to raise shout out to anyone who tries to raise shout out to anyone who tries to raise money for a cause because it is so hard money for a cause because it is so hard money for a cause because it is so hard um I have let me put it this way I've

um I have let me put it this way I've um I have let me put it this way I've sold millions and millions of dollars of sold millions and millions of dollars of sold millions and millions of dollars of my own programs online I'm I'm really my own programs online I'm I'm really my own programs online I'm I'm really good at it I feel super confident about good at it I feel super confident about good at it I feel super confident about it my wife and I have raised money for it my wife and I have raised money for it my wife and I have raised money for some political causes and we raised them some political causes and we raised them some political causes and we raised them online and we did a an event uh in New online and we did a an event uh in New online and we did a an event uh in New York and then we asked my community hey York and then we asked my community hey York and then we asked my community hey if you want to come to the event come to if you want to come to the event come to if you want to come to the event come to the event if you want to just donate the event if you want to just donate the event if you want to just donate donate okay let me put this way selling donate okay let me put this way selling donate okay let me put this way selling multi ,000 programs was so much easier multi ,000 programs was so much easier multi ,000 programs was so much easier than getting people to donate $100 I had than getting people to donate $100 I had than getting people to donate $100 I had people they were coming out and they people they were coming out and they people they were coming out and they were saying well RIT can you please were saying well RIT can you please were saying well RIT can you please describe in detail what percentage is describe in detail what percentage is describe in detail what percentage is going to the staff because I don't like going to the staff because I don't like going to the staff because I don't like when nonprofits have a high percent I when nonprofits have a high percent I when nonprofits have a high percent I said what the why are you sitting here said what the why are you sitting here said what the why are you sitting here analyzing a freaking Financial document analyzing a freaking Financial document analyzing a freaking Financial document what either donate the money or don't what either donate the money or don't what either donate the money or don't donate the money this is the cause I donate the money this is the cause I donate the money this is the cause I trust it I'm putting a lot of my own trust it I'm putting a lot of my own trust it I'm putting a lot of my own money in fact I'm matching money donate money in fact I'm matching money donate money in fact I'm matching money donate or don't the way they pulled out a or don't the way they pulled out a or don't the way they pulled out a questionnaire of 30 questions before questionnaire of 30 questions before questionnaire of 30 questions before they would donate was actually they would donate was actually they would donate was actually outrageous and offensive to me but on outrageous and offensive to me but on outrageous and offensive to me but on the other hand I do want to give credit the other hand I do want to give credit the other hand I do want to give credit there were so many people who donated we there were so many people who donated we there were so many people who donated we raised a ton of money we did it for the raised a ton of money we did it for the raised a ton of money we did it for the political cause we've done it during political cause we've done it during political cause we've done it during covid to feed people we've raised a covid to feed people we've raised a covid to feed people we've raised a tremendous amount of money so I just tremendous amount of money so I just tremendous amount of money so I just want to give a shout out to all the want to give a shout out to all the want to give a shout out to all the staff trying to raise money it's not staff trying to raise money it's not staff trying to raise money it's not easy and I myself can attest to it

easy and I myself can attest to it easy and I myself can attest to it because I can I can sell things easily because I can I can sell things easily because I can I can sell things easily that's not a problem but raising $100 that's not a problem but raising $100 that's not a problem but raising $100 from people like each person donate 100 from people like each person donate 100 from people like each person donate 100 they reacted in very peculiar ways um so they reacted in very peculiar ways um so they reacted in very peculiar ways um so I share in their pain thank you thank I share in their pain thank you thank I share in their pain thank you thank you and you're right and I mean it is it you and you're right and I mean it is it you and you're right and I mean it is it is very nerve-wracking and you know the is very nerve-wracking and you know the is very nerve-wracking and you know the thing about pastors is we don't even thing about pastors is we don't even thing about pastors is we don't even benefit from it like when you raising benefit from it like when you raising benefit from it like when you raising money for politics you're not raising money for politics you're not raising money for politics you're not raising money for a raise for you and we're not money for a raise for you and we're not money for a raise for you and we're not doing the same thing usually the pastor doing the same thing usually the pastor doing the same thing usually the pastor has to give to the campaign is giving so has to give to the campaign is giving so has to give to the campaign is giving so it's actually an effective pay cut okay it's actually an effective pay cut okay it's actually an effective pay cut okay that's super helpful one more question that's super helpful one more question that's super helpful one more question on high netw worth individuals what is a on high netw worth individuals what is a on high netw worth individuals what is a good Bridge into their world I've had good Bridge into their world I've had good Bridge into their world I've had the privilege of asking a number of the privilege of asking a number of the privilege of asking a number of different guests over the years that different guests over the years that different guests over the years that question but I love your take like if if question but I love your take like if if question but I love your take like if if you were to show up at a church you were to show up at a church you were to show up at a church synagogue mosque whatever Temple and synagogue mosque whatever Temple and synagogue mosque whatever Temple and some guy was like RIT I want to have a some guy was like RIT I want to have a some guy was like RIT I want to have a conversation what would feel ick to you conversation what would feel ick to you conversation what would feel ick to you and what would feel like really good to and what would feel like really good to and what would feel like really good to you hm guess really good question um um wow so I've never been asked that um um wow so I've never been asked that before but I love the question you know before but I love the question you know before but I love the question you know I was raised going to a seik gara that's I was raised going to a seik gara that's I was raised going to a seik gara that's a seek Temple um and we went there most a seek Temple um and we went there most a seek Temple um and we went there most Sundays and I'm quite familiar with them Sundays and I'm quite familiar with them Sundays and I'm quite familiar with them um they have a big Community aspect to um they have a big Community aspect to um they have a big Community aspect to them you know it's it's very communal I them you know it's it's very communal I them you know it's it's very communal I love that feeling of we're all here for love that feeling of we're all here for love that feeling of we're all here for something that's bigger than any of us something that's bigger than any of us something that's bigger than any of us doesn't really matter how much money you

doesn't really matter how much money you doesn't really matter how much money you make when you walk in this door we're make when you walk in this door we're make when you walk in this door we're just here for something I love that just here for something I love that just here for something I love that feeling um there have been a couple feeling um there have been a couple feeling um there have been a couple moments that I thought were really cool moments that I thought were really cool moments that I thought were really cool as an adult one of them was touring a as an adult one of them was touring a as an adult one of them was touring a seik temple in New Delhi um where I saw seik temple in New Delhi um where I saw seik temple in New Delhi um where I saw their facilities they have this amazing their facilities they have this amazing their facilities they have this amazing hospital that they have created which hospital that they have created which hospital that they have created which includes Dentistry cancer treatment includes Dentistry cancer treatment includes Dentistry cancer treatment everything and it's given for free to everything and it's given for free to everything and it's given for free to anyone who cannot afford it um and if anyone who cannot afford it um and if anyone who cannot afford it um and if you can't afford it the costs are highly you can't afford it the costs are highly you can't afford it the costs are highly subsidized you know I remember I I went subsidized you know I remember I I went subsidized you know I remember I I went there and I think eyeglasses are there and I think eyeglasses are there and I think eyeglasses are something like the equivalent of $iv um something like the equivalent of $iv um something like the equivalent of $iv um it's very affordable just to see what it's very affordable just to see what it's very affordable just to see what they had accomplished and take a tour of they had accomplished and take a tour of they had accomplished and take a tour of it was quite amazing and I think that it was quite amazing and I think that it was quite amazing and I think that there is power in showing the good there is power in showing the good there is power in showing the good things that churches and organizations things that churches and organizations things that churches and organizations do I I I wouldn't have known and I do I I I wouldn't have known and I do I I I wouldn't have known and I thought it was it was really moving um thought it was it was really moving um thought it was it was really moving um the second thing is uh being invited to the second thing is uh being invited to the second thing is uh being invited to give a talk on whatever topic might be give a talk on whatever topic might be give a talk on whatever topic might be Rel I mean kind of like what I'm doing Rel I mean kind of like what I'm doing Rel I mean kind of like what I'm doing right here yeah when you invite someone right here yeah when you invite someone right here yeah when you invite someone to share their work especially the to share their work especially the to share their work especially the things that are important to them things that are important to them things that are important to them especially if there's a good audience especially if there's a good audience especially if there's a good audience the audience responds they they're the audience responds they they're the audience responds they they're engaged suddenly it makes that person engaged suddenly it makes that person engaged suddenly it makes that person want to engage more with the want to engage more with the want to engage more with the organization so those are the two things organization so those are the two things organization so those are the two things that come to mind for me but I'm that come to mind for me but I'm that come to mind for me but I'm actually curious what the other folks actually curious what the other folks actually curious what the other folks have answered because oh great question have answered because oh great question have answered because oh great question okay so first of all you're showing the

okay so first of all you're showing the okay so first of all you're showing the work yeah very powerful being invited to work yeah very powerful being invited to work yeah very powerful being invited to give a talk that thought has never give a talk that thought has never give a talk that thought has never occurred to me and I'm like duh duh duh occurred to me and I'm like duh duh duh occurred to me and I'm like duh duh duh like now I want to go back be a lead like now I want to go back be a lead like now I want to go back be a lead Pastor again and invite some key Pastor again and invite some key Pastor again and invite some key entrepreneurs to give talks in different entrepreneurs to give talks in different entrepreneurs to give talks in different settings but you know what because we we settings but you know what because we we settings but you know what because we we I've talked with well you probably know I've talked with well you probably know I've talked with well you probably know Patrick lyion right like do you know Pat Patrick lyion right like do you know Pat Patrick lyion right like do you know Pat work so I know I know Pat Pat's Roman work so I know I know Pat Pat's Roman work so I know I know Pat Pat's Roman Catholic and he said publicly on this Catholic and he said publicly on this Catholic and he said publicly on this show uh that they kind of want you to show uh that they kind of want you to show uh that they kind of want you to stand at the door and just hand Out stand at the door and just hand Out stand at the door and just hand Out programs or whatever and you know programs or whatever and you know programs or whatever and you know meanwhile he gets exorbitant amounts of meanwhile he gets exorbitant amounts of meanwhile he gets exorbitant amounts of money to go speak to top companies and money to go speak to top companies and money to go speak to top companies and he's like nobody ever asked me what I he's like nobody ever asked me what I he's like nobody ever asked me what I think so I've thought about tapping into think so I've thought about tapping into think so I've thought about tapping into expertise but I haven't thought about expertise but I haven't thought about expertise but I haven't thought about could you give a presentation could I could you give a presentation could I could you give a presentation could I interview you uh like if I was doing a interview you uh like if I was doing a interview you uh like if I was doing a money series and you were part of our money series and you were part of our money series and you were part of our church or you were even adjacent to us church or you were even adjacent to us church or you were even adjacent to us in the same city I might tap you on the in the same city I might tap you on the in the same city I might tap you on the shoulder and I said hey we're not trying shoulder and I said hey we're not trying shoulder and I said hey we're not trying to convert you just would you come in to convert you just would you come in to convert you just would you come in and would you talk about top money and would you talk about top money and would you talk about top money issues for couples what might you say to issues for couples what might you say to issues for couples what might you say to that if it was a relationship would you that if it was a relationship would you that if it was a relationship would you say you're open to that you know I think say you're open to that you know I think say you're open to that you know I think so I I think in part because I know you so I I think in part because I know you so I I think in part because I know you so there's a warm intruction not so there's a warm intruction not so there's a warm intruction not inviting you and and you know don't give inviting you and and you know don't give inviting you and and you know don't give people your email address but yeah yeah people your email address but yeah yeah people your email address but yeah yeah yeah I I appreciate that I think yeah I I appreciate that I think yeah I I appreciate that I think um I don't know I don't know how many um I don't know I don't know how many um I don't know I don't know how many Americans Americans Americans have a positive experience with their have a positive experience with their have a positive experience with their churches growing up I I genuinely don't churches growing up I I genuinely don't churches growing up I I genuinely don't know the answer but I I have a lot of

know the answer but I I have a lot of know the answer but I I have a lot of positive experiences of of my experience positive experiences of of my experience positive experiences of of my experience at our gas and you know we met friends at our gas and you know we met friends at our gas and you know we met friends and I saw my parents being socially and I saw my parents being socially and I saw my parents being socially engaged and we learned that um there's engaged and we learned that um there's engaged and we learned that um there's something bigger you know that we don't something bigger you know that we don't something bigger you know that we don't always have to get what we want always have to get what we want always have to get what we want sometimes you just sit and listen and sometimes you just sit and listen and sometimes you just sit and listen and that's important and we learn I learned that's important and we learn I learned that's important and we learn I learned so many things so um if some were to ask so many things so um if some were to ask so many things so um if some were to ask it's possible I just think I think it's possible I just think I think it's possible I just think I think regardless of what I would say I think regardless of what I would say I think regardless of what I would say I think more importantly I love the idea if you more importantly I love the idea if you more importantly I love the idea if you are Missi driven if you are a leader in are Missi driven if you are a leader in are Missi driven if you are a leader in any kind of organization including a any kind of organization including a any kind of organization including a church I love the idea of getting a church I love the idea of getting a church I love the idea of getting a little bit more aggressive like what's little bit more aggressive like what's little bit more aggressive like what's the worst somebody says no okay cool the worst somebody says no okay cool the worst somebody says no okay cool there's a hundred other people I got on there's a hundred other people I got on there's a hundred other people I got on my list I I appreciate it if things my list I I appreciate it if things my list I I appreciate it if things change let me know we'd love to have you change let me know we'd love to have you change let me know we'd love to have you thank you so much for even considering thank you so much for even considering thank you so much for even considering it on to the next I don't mind that's it on to the next I don't mind that's it on to the next I don't mind that's okay no is a perfectly good answer right okay no is a perfectly good answer right okay no is a perfectly good answer right Nas no is a service anyway um you know Nas no is a service anyway um you know Nas no is a service anyway um you know what the number one answer just to to go what the number one answer just to to go what the number one answer just to to go Circle back on that is has been treat Circle back on that is has been treat Circle back on that is has been treat high netw worth individuals like a human high netw worth individuals like a human high netw worth individuals like a human being don't treat them like a bank being don't treat them like a bank being don't treat them like a bank machine just get to know you your wife machine just get to know you your wife machine just get to know you your wife um and there's an intimidation pastors um and there's an intimidation pastors um and there's an intimidation pastors are intimidated because you have a lot are intimidated because you have a lot are intimidated because you have a lot of you know zeros in your bank account of you know zeros in your bank account of you know zeros in your bank account and we don't understand that on the and we don't understand that on the and we don't understand that on the other hand a lot of Business Leaders are other hand a lot of Business Leaders are other hand a lot of Business Leaders are afraid like don't ask me how to exposit afraid like don't ask me how to exposit afraid like don't ask me how to exposit the Book of Romans cuz I can barely the Book of Romans cuz I can barely the Book of Romans cuz I can barely quote a verse on that so we're

quote a verse on that so we're quote a verse on that so we're intimidated by different things so intimidated by different things so intimidated by different things so interesting yeah bridging that divide interesting yeah bridging that divide interesting yeah bridging that divide right yeah I mean I'll recommend that right yeah I mean I'll recommend that right yeah I mean I'll recommend that anybody listening to this if if you are anybody listening to this if if you are anybody listening to this if if you are in the position that we're describing in the position that we're describing in the position that we're describing listen to some of my uh episodes on listen to some of my uh episodes on listen to some of my uh episodes on money for couples with the wealthy money for couples with the wealthy money for couples with the wealthy couples you can see right in the title couples you can see right in the title couples you can see right in the title it says you know we have $4 million and it says you know we have $4 million and it says you know we have $4 million and we're afraid to spend listen to a few we're afraid to spend listen to a few we're afraid to spend listen to a few and you'll realize they're just people and you'll realize they're just people and you'll realize they're just people they might have some extra zeros they they might have some extra zeros they they might have some extra zeros they might have a high paying job but might have a high paying job but might have a high paying job but ultimately we are all pretty much the ultimately we are all pretty much the ultimately we are all pretty much the same and I love that we're all in this same and I love that we're all in this same and I love that we're all in this together so yeah what about average together so yeah what about average together so yeah what about average people um you know because you you do people um you know because you you do people um you know because you you do talk to people who grew up with very talk to people who grew up with very talk to people who grew up with very little or have very little and then um little or have very little and then um little or have very little and then um you talk to a lot of very average income you talk to a lot of very average income you talk to a lot of very average income earners with marginal net worth so what earners with marginal net worth so what earners with marginal net worth so what are some of their frequent flyer issues are some of their frequent flyer issues are some of their frequent flyer issues so to speak uh well if it's lowincome so to speak uh well if it's lowincome so to speak uh well if it's lowincome the principal problem is that they don't the principal problem is that they don't the principal problem is that they don't earn enough that's as simple as that earn enough that's as simple as that earn enough that's as simple as that however if we're talking about median however if we're talking about median however if we're talking about median income um there's a couple of unique income um there's a couple of unique income um there's a couple of unique challenges one of them is that when challenges one of them is that when challenges one of them is that when people people people overspend they overspend in two areas overspend they overspend in two areas overspend they overspend in two areas and it's always the same and it's always and it's always the same and it's always and it's always the same and it's always in this order first they're overspending in this order first they're overspending in this order first they're overspending on housing they're spending too much on housing they're spending too much on housing they're spending too much based on what the numbers justify and based on what the numbers justify and based on what the numbers justify and number two they are spending too much on number two they are spending too much on number two they are spending too much on their automobiles typically it's a su V their automobiles typically it's a su V their automobiles typically it's a su V or a truck it's extremely expensive but or a truck it's extremely expensive but or a truck it's extremely expensive but they have no idea they simply know their

they have no idea they simply know their they have no idea they simply know their monthly payment and I'm like oh my God monthly payment and I'm like oh my God monthly payment and I'm like oh my God okay yeah um what what you will often okay yeah um what what you will often okay yeah um what what you will often see is that this is manifested by a see is that this is manifested by a see is that this is manifested by a couple coming on and they they're couple coming on and they they're couple coming on and they they're fighting oh my gosh I can't believe she fighting oh my gosh I can't believe she fighting oh my gosh I can't believe she spent this much at Target and I'm spent this much at Target and I'm spent this much at Target and I'm looking at their numbers and I'm like um looking at their numbers and I'm like um looking at their numbers and I'm like um how much and it was you know $75 instead how much and it was you know $75 instead how much and it was you know $75 instead of 35 and meanwhile I'm looking at the of 35 and meanwhile I'm looking at the of 35 and meanwhile I'm looking at the monthly payment they have for their monthly payment they have for their monthly payment they have for their truck which is truck which is truck which is $1,400 at 133% interest rate and I'm $1,400 at 133% interest rate and I'm $1,400 at 133% interest rate and I'm like trust me when I say target has like trust me when I say target has like trust me when I say target has nothing to do with this but but to to nothing to do with this but but to to nothing to do with this but but to to understand that you have to have a understand that you have to have a understand that you have to have a somewhat sophisticated understanding of somewhat sophisticated understanding of somewhat sophisticated understanding of money that oh it's actually first of all money that oh it's actually first of all money that oh it's actually first of all what is interest I don't even know what what is interest I don't even know what what is interest I don't even know what interest is what's wrong with my monthly interest is what's wrong with my monthly interest is what's wrong with my monthly payment every month I still have my payment every month I still have my payment every month I still have my truck in my driveway what's the problem truck in my driveway what's the problem truck in my driveway what's the problem what are you talking about that's not what are you talking about that's not what are you talking about that's not the problem and the real problem is that the problem and the real problem is that the problem and the real problem is that she went to Target and bought more than she went to Target and bought more than she went to Target and bought more than she said it's a again it's a very simple she said it's a again it's a very simple she said it's a again it's a very simple way of looking at the world and what I way of looking at the world and what I way of looking at the world and what I want to do is show people this is an want to do is show people this is an want to do is show people this is an important topic it's worth understanding important topic it's worth understanding important topic it's worth understanding trust me if you get these few big things trust me if you get these few big things trust me if you get these few big things right you're never going to be fighting right you're never going to be fighting right you're never going to be fighting about how much somebody spent at the about how much somebody spent at the about how much somebody spent at the grocery store or at Target that's almost grocery store or at Target that's almost grocery store or at Target that's almost never the never the never the problem yeah so that's it it's the fixed problem yeah so that's it it's the fixed problem yeah so that's it it's the fixed costs right and you don't do a budget costs right and you don't do a budget costs right and you don't do a budget you do a conscious spending plan we you do a conscious spending plan we you do a conscious spending plan we talked about that the first time you talked about that the first time you talked about that the first time you were on one of the issues I think you were on one of the issues I think you were on one of the issues I think you touch on in money for couples which and touch on in money for couples which and touch on in money for couples which and you certainly have talked about it in

you certainly have talked about it in you certainly have talked about it in other areas is Shame Shame is is is other areas is Shame Shame is is is other areas is Shame Shame is is is really interesting you're right with really interesting you're right with really interesting you're right with high- net worth people with with people high- net worth people with with people high- net worth people with with people who have a lot of credit card debt who have a lot of credit card debt who have a lot of credit card debt student loans um or just you know student loans um or just you know student loans um or just you know they're living paycheck to paycheck they're living paycheck to paycheck they're living paycheck to paycheck which I think is I read today 72% of which I think is I read today 72% of which I think is I read today 72% of Americans right now or something there's Americans right now or something there's Americans right now or something there's a lot of Shame around money how do you a lot of Shame around money how do you a lot of Shame around money how do you suggest addressing that suggest addressing that suggest addressing that you know I start off by using myself as you know I start off by using myself as you know I start off by using myself as an example um I'm quite open about areas an example um I'm quite open about areas an example um I'm quite open about areas that I spend money on and don't and um that I spend money on and don't and um that I spend money on and don't and um one of the counterintuitive things that one of the counterintuitive things that one of the counterintuitive things that I do with my money is my wife and I rent I do with my money is my wife and I rent I do with my money is my wife and I rent by choice and that is um that's for a by choice and that is um that's for a by choice and that is um that's for a lot of people that's quite surprising lot of people that's quite surprising lot of people that's quite surprising like why would the I will teach you to like why would the I will teach you to like why would the I will teach you to be rich guy rent isn't that for losers be rich guy rent isn't that for losers be rich guy rent isn't that for losers because in America you know we're kind because in America you know we're kind because in America you know we're kind of taught that owning a house is the of taught that owning a house is the of taught that owning a house is the ultimate American ultimate American ultimate American dream I do that for a couple of reasons dream I do that for a couple of reasons dream I do that for a couple of reasons one I want people to deeply understand one I want people to deeply understand one I want people to deeply understand the numbers especially on the biggest the numbers especially on the biggest the numbers especially on the biggest purchase of their lives and very few of purchase of their lives and very few of purchase of their lives and very few of us do in my estimation about less than us do in my estimation about less than us do in my estimation about less than 1% actually run a very simple analysis 1% actually run a very simple analysis 1% actually run a very simple analysis two I want people to understand that you two I want people to understand that you two I want people to understand that you choose your rich life your rich life is choose your rich life your rich life is choose your rich life your rich life is yours it's different than mine so when I yours it's different than mine so when I yours it's different than mine so when I share an example of how for example I share an example of how for example I share an example of how for example I will I would rather buy a beautiful will I would rather buy a beautiful will I would rather buy a beautiful Exquisite cashmere sweater than to own a

Exquisite cashmere sweater than to own a Exquisite cashmere sweater than to own a house they're like what is wrong with house they're like what is wrong with house they're like what is wrong with this freak but that's okay that's my this freak but that's okay that's my this freak but that's okay that's my rich life it doesn't have to be yours in rich life it doesn't have to be yours in rich life it doesn't have to be yours in fact you and your husband or wife don't fact you and your husband or wife don't fact you and your husband or wife don't even have to agree on everything that's even have to agree on everything that's even have to agree on everything that's okay too my wife has her own areas that okay too my wife has her own areas that okay too my wife has her own areas that she likes to spend on and I have areas she likes to spend on and I have areas she likes to spend on and I have areas that she doesn't care anything about that she doesn't care anything about that she doesn't care anything about that's okay too um when it comes to that's okay too um when it comes to that's okay too um when it comes to these topics of Shame so often we feel these topics of Shame so often we feel these topics of Shame so often we feel that way because we don't understand how that way because we don't understand how that way because we don't understand how money works we are not confident in our money works we are not confident in our money works we are not confident in our choices because we don't understand how choices because we don't understand how choices because we don't understand how money works and we are simply buying the money works and we are simply buying the money works and we are simply buying the things that we want or that we see things that we want or that we see things that we want or that we see knowing that there's somebody somewhere knowing that there's somebody somewhere knowing that there's somebody somewhere out there who thinks we're making a bad out there who thinks we're making a bad out there who thinks we're making a bad decision but we haven't put the two decision but we haven't put the two decision but we haven't put the two together what I really wish for people together what I really wish for people together what I really wish for people is is for them to go through my book and is is for them to go through my book and is is for them to go through my book and my journal and the new book money for my journal and the new book money for my journal and the new book money for couples and to really come up with a couples and to really come up with a couples and to really come up with a crisp vision of what my rich life is for crisp vision of what my rich life is for crisp vision of what my rich life is for example um I don't ever want to have to example um I don't ever want to have to example um I don't ever want to have to repair anything in my house I hate repair anything in my house I hate repair anything in my house I hate screwdrivers I hate Home Depot I never screwdrivers I hate Home Depot I never screwdrivers I hate Home Depot I never want to have to go there again therefore want to have to go there again therefore want to have to go there again therefore I will always have a reserve maintenance I will always have a reserve maintenance I will always have a reserve maintenance fund of $33,000 and if and when fund of $33,000 and if and when fund of $33,000 and if and when something breaks I will tap into that something breaks I will tap into that something breaks I will tap into that and happily use it um my wife and I or and happily use it um my wife and I or and happily use it um my wife and I or my husband and I will have a recurring my husband and I will have a recurring my husband and I will have a recurring date night once every two weeks we will date night once every two weeks we will date night once every two weeks we will hire a babysitter we will go out we will hire a babysitter we will go out we will hire a babysitter we will go out we will have a beautiful time and that is have a beautiful time and that is have a beautiful time and that is important for the health of our important for the health of our important for the health of our relationship and on and on and on that's

relationship and on and on and on that's relationship and on and on and on that's what I want it becomes this beautiful what I want it becomes this beautiful what I want it becomes this beautiful personalized vision and you can still do personalized vision and you can still do personalized vision and you can still do it if you have debt you can still do it it if you have debt you can still do it it if you have debt you can still do it if one of you is in school or staying at if one of you is in school or staying at if one of you is in school or staying at home right now you can still do it you home right now you can still do it you home right now you can still do it you just adapt it and it becomes something just adapt it and it becomes something just adapt it and it becomes something that's highly meaningful to you because that's highly meaningful to you because that's highly meaningful to you because it is your rich life I had to ask you it is your rich life I had to ask you it is your rich life I had to ask you this question too so one of the Dynamics this question too so one of the Dynamics this question too so one of the Dynamics in church world is a lot of us have in church world is a lot of us have in church world is a lot of us have boards or and there's always a cheap boards or and there's always a cheap boards or and there's always a cheap member on the board particularly if you member on the board particularly if you member on the board particularly if you haven't done this so my question remat haven't done this so my question remat haven't done this so my question remat and I know there's a great answer to and I know there's a great answer to and I know there's a great answer to this how do you fix cheap or can you fix this how do you fix cheap or can you fix this how do you fix cheap or can you fix cheap can't fix cheap I can fix a lot cheap can't fix cheap I can fix a lot cheap can't fix cheap I can fix a lot but I can't fix cheap it's very but I can't fix cheap it's very but I can't fix cheap it's very difficult um you know I'll tell you why difficult um you know I'll tell you why difficult um you know I'll tell you why and then I'll tell you what I would do and then I'll tell you what I would do and then I'll tell you what I would do so sure you know I speak to a lot of so sure you know I speak to a lot of so sure you know I speak to a lot of frugal people on my podcast I make the frugal people on my podcast I make the frugal people on my podcast I make the distinction between cheap and Frugal and distinction between cheap and Frugal and distinction between cheap and Frugal and often times frugal people will come to often times frugal people will come to often times frugal people will come to me and they'll ask how do I actually me and they'll ask how do I actually me and they'll ask how do I actually start to enjoy spending money and this start to enjoy spending money and this start to enjoy spending money and this is this seems bewildering to a lot of is this seems bewildering to a lot of is this seems bewildering to a lot of people because again they think we are people because again they think we are people because again they think we are rational robots if I had a million rational robots if I had a million rational robots if I had a million dollarss or five of course I would spend dollarss or five of course I would spend dollarss or five of course I would spend it no you wouldn't you do exactly what it no you wouldn't you do exactly what it no you wouldn't you do exactly what you're doing right now you would just you're doing right now you would just you're doing right now you would just feel worse and so I I work with them I feel worse and so I I work with them I feel worse and so I I work with them I talk to them I went through this myself talk to them I went through this myself talk to them I went through this myself because I was raised quite Frugal and I because I was raised quite Frugal and I because I was raised quite Frugal and I had to learn and on on the fact of the had to learn and on on the fact of the had to learn and on on the fact of the matter is that very few people in those matter is that very few people in those matter is that very few people in those situations ever change why because they situations ever change why because they situations ever change why because they come to me they go I have money I can't come to me they go I have money I can't come to me they go I have money I can't seem to enjoy spending every time I do I seem to enjoy spending every time I do I seem to enjoy spending every time I do I worry about how much I've lost in worry about how much I've lost in worry about how much I've lost in compounding gains blah blah blah and I

compounding gains blah blah blah and I compounding gains blah blah blah and I start to work with them and help them start to work with them and help them start to work with them and help them start to change it it's hard it means start to change it it's hard it means start to change it it's hard it means you have to look inside out and change you have to look inside out and change you have to look inside out and change your entire world viw on money and your entire world viw on money and your entire world viw on money and eventually they go this seems like a lot eventually they go this seems like a lot eventually they go this seems like a lot of work I think I'm good I'm just going of work I think I'm good I'm just going of work I think I'm good I'm just going to stay at home go for a walk in the to stay at home go for a walk in the to stay at home go for a walk in the park never upgrade my airline seat eat park never upgrade my airline seat eat park never upgrade my airline seat eat the same food and they wrap themselves the same food and they wrap themselves the same food and they wrap themselves in a righteousness I don't need that in a righteousness I don't need that in a righteousness I don't need that fancy wine like those people I don't fancy wine like those people I don't fancy wine like those people I don't need to go to those places and I need to go to those places and I need to go to those places and I consider it a total tragedy what a consider it a total tragedy what a consider it a total tragedy what a tragedy to live a smaller life than you tragedy to live a smaller life than you tragedy to live a smaller life than you have to now if we know that folks don't have to now if we know that folks don't have to now if we know that folks don't even change by spending their own money even change by spending their own money even change by spending their own money then imagine a cheap board member the then imagine a cheap board member the then imagine a cheap board member the only solution I have is involve them ask only solution I have is involve them ask only solution I have is involve them ask them what would you do try to have them them what would you do try to have them them what would you do try to have them put some skin in the game say look put some skin in the game say look put some skin in the game say look here's my here's my here's my budget how would you handle this and budget how would you handle this and budget how would you handle this and don't let them get away with saying well don't let them get away with saying well don't let them get away with saying well I would just blank blank BL no no not I would just blank blank BL no no not I would just blank blank BL no no not just tell me exactly what you would do just tell me exactly what you would do just tell me exactly what you would do tell me how you would deal with this tell me how you would deal with this tell me how you would deal with this obstinate other person who won't do this obstinate other person who won't do this obstinate other person who won't do this and get them involved make it their and get them involved make it their and get them involved make it their problem if they still won't do it problem if they still won't do it problem if they still won't do it because they're never going to get because they're never going to get because they're never going to get involved they just want to offer involved they just want to offer involved they just want to offer opinions without doing the work then you opinions without doing the work then you opinions without doing the work then you have some difficult choices to make yeah have some difficult choices to make yeah have some difficult choices to make yeah yeah simple as that years of leader ship yeah simple as that years of leader ship yeah simple as that years of leader ship have led me to that place where you have led me to that place where you have led me to that place where you can't fix cheap and if somebody is just can't fix cheap and if somebody is just can't fix cheap and if somebody is just always seeing the downside I mean it's always seeing the downside I mean it's always seeing the downside I mean it's as particularly if they have a vote if as particularly if they have a vote if as particularly if they have a vote if it's one voice on your board that's fine

it's one voice on your board that's fine it's one voice on your board that's fine we get it you're never going to prove we get it you're never going to prove we get it you're never going to prove any increase but you got to have people any increase but you got to have people any increase but you got to have people who believe what's possible in a growth who believe what's possible in a growth who believe what's possible in a growth mindset that's right that's right we mindset that's right that's right we mindset that's right that's right we cannot live our entire lives worried cannot live our entire lives worried cannot live our entire lives worried about what can go wrong yes let's manage about what can go wrong yes let's manage about what can go wrong yes let's manage risk let's plan for the worst yes but we risk let's plan for the worst yes but we risk let's plan for the worst yes but we have to operate as if things are going have to operate as if things are going have to operate as if things are going to go right otherwise what are we doing to go right otherwise what are we doing to go right otherwise what are we doing here is there a final thought or here is there a final thought or here is there a final thought or anything we haven't touched on that you anything we haven't touched on that you anything we haven't touched on that you would really like to touch on before we would really like to touch on before we would really like to touch on before we wrap up today wrap up today wrap up today Rite for me money in a relationship is Rite for me money in a relationship is Rite for me money in a relationship is is profoundly fun and it is um something is profoundly fun and it is um something is profoundly fun and it is um something that we if we tap into it we can change that we if we tap into it we can change that we if we tap into it we can change the way that we live money affects where the way that we live money affects where the way that we live money affects where we live what we eat what we do with our we live what we eat what we do with our we live what we eat what we do with our children if we have them it affects who children if we have them it affects who children if we have them it affects who we are and the fact that most of us we are and the fact that most of us we are and the fact that most of us don't know the basic language of it to don't know the basic language of it to don't know the basic language of it to me is awesome because by reading a me is awesome because by reading a me is awesome because by reading a single book by listening to some podcast single book by listening to some podcast single book by listening to some podcast episodes suddenly you realize oh my God episodes suddenly you realize oh my God episodes suddenly you realize oh my God this isn't that hard it's sure it's this isn't that hard it's sure it's this isn't that hard it's sure it's vulnerable it's really scary that's what vulnerable it's really scary that's what vulnerable it's really scary that's what I had to go through with my wife I had I had to go through with my wife I had I had to go through with my wife I had to open up I had to realize I was being to open up I had to realize I was being to open up I had to realize I was being a little bit too focused on numbers too a little bit too focused on numbers too a little bit too focused on numbers too transactional transactional transactional we need to connect in a different way we need to connect in a different way we need to connect in a different way but man I think the payoff is huge it but man I think the payoff is huge it but man I think the payoff is huge it allows you to feel good it allows you to allows you to feel good it allows you to allows you to feel good it allows you to sleep well at night it can allow one sleep well at night it can allow one sleep well at night it can allow one parent to stay at home if that's what parent to stay at home if that's what parent to stay at home if that's what they they they choose it can it can allow for Magical

choose it can it can allow for Magical choose it can it can allow for Magical experiences as a family and I think most experiences as a family and I think most experiences as a family and I think most important for parents especially your important for parents especially your important for parents especially your kids are noticing kids are noticing kids are noticing everything if they notice mom getting everything if they notice mom getting everything if they notice mom getting stressed then they think that moms stressed then they think that moms stressed then they think that moms should get stressed daughters notice should get stressed daughters notice should get stressed daughters notice that Sons notice if men are avoidant that Sons notice if men are avoidant that Sons notice if men are avoidant with money they think oh it's not my with money they think oh it's not my with money they think oh it's not my problem it's a common Dynamic when I ask problem it's a common Dynamic when I ask problem it's a common Dynamic when I ask couples what did you remember about couples what did you remember about couples what did you remember about money the parents the kids will often money the parents the kids will often money the parents the kids will often say the exact same thing oh my parents say the exact same thing oh my parents say the exact same thing oh my parents never talked about money in our family never talked about money in our family never talked about money in our family or the only thing they said was we can't or the only thing they said was we can't or the only thing they said was we can't afford it well guess what 30 years later afford it well guess what 30 years later afford it well guess what 30 years later those those children show up on my those those children show up on my those those children show up on my podcast and it's a lot harder to fix it podcast and it's a lot harder to fix it podcast and it's a lot harder to fix it than if you yourself had built a healthy than if you yourself had built a healthy than if you yourself had built a healthy relationship with your partner showing relationship with your partner showing relationship with your partner showing that in the household and and if you that in the household and and if you that in the household and and if you have children they pick up on that so we have children they pick up on that so we have children they pick up on that so we got to have a healthy relationship with got to have a healthy relationship with got to have a healthy relationship with food we got to have a healthy food we got to have a healthy food we got to have a healthy relationship with each other and we relationship with each other and we relationship with each other and we certainly have to have a healthy certainly have to have a healthy certainly have to have a healthy relationship with money well you helped relationship with money well you helped relationship with money well you helped a lot of leaders today the book is a lot of leaders today the book is a lot of leaders today the book is called money for couples it's available called money for couples it's available called money for couples it's available literally everywhere the podcast now literally everywhere the podcast now literally everywhere the podcast now goes by the same name REM if people want goes by the same name REM if people want goes by the same name REM if people want to track with you online where where can to track with you online where where can to track with you online where where can they find you you can find me at I will they find you you can find me at I will they find you you can find me at I will teach you to ber.com or on any social teach you to ber.com or on any social teach you to ber.com or on any social media platform yeah R thank you so much media platform yeah R thank you so much media platform yeah R thank you so much for making the time for this this has for making the time for this this has for making the time for this this has been a thrill for me thanks always great been a thrill for me thanks always great been a thrill for me thanks always great to talk to you