Firing Staff Who Feel Like Family & Building Teams That Last

Carrie, I walked in one day and Carrie, I walked in one day and >> my my son's girlfriend is my social >> my my son's girlfriend is my social >> my my son's girlfriend is my social media coordinator. My son works for our media coordinator. My son works for our media coordinator. My son works for our company and he was he's doing sales and company and he was he's doing sales and company and he was he's doing sales and they were both not doing their jobs. So they were both not doing their jobs. So they were both not doing their jobs. So I walk in and I could tell right away by I walk in and I could tell right away by I walk in and I could tell right away by the way and my New Yorkness came out and the way and my New Yorkness came out and the way and my New Yorkness came out and I came this the accountability came out. I came this the accountability came out. I came this the accountability came out. I said, "I want you guys to know I love I said, "I want you guys to know I love I said, "I want you guys to know I love you guys." I said, "I love you. You're you guys." I said, "I love you. You're you guys." I said, "I love you. You're my family, but I will fire my family my family, but I will fire my family my family, but I will fire my family right now is what I said. I will fire right now is what I said. I will fire right now is what I said. I will fire you guys." I go, "I have no problem you guys." I go, "I have no problem you guys." I go, "I have no problem firing my family is what I said." firing my family is what I said." firing my family is what I said." Welcome to the Carrie Newhoff leadership Welcome to the Carrie Newhoff leadership Welcome to the Carrie Newhoff leadership podcast. Today, how do you fire staff podcast. Today, how do you fire staff podcast. Today, how do you fire staff that are like family? Right, man? That's that are like family? Right, man? That's that are like family? Right, man? That's a question I get a lot. So, I sit down a question I get a lot. So, I sit down a question I get a lot. So, I sit down with John Gordon and we talk about with John Gordon and we talk about with John Gordon and we talk about making tough calls on staffing and making tough calls on staffing and making tough calls on staffing and creating great teams. He should know creating great teams. He should know creating great teams. He should know he's coached a lot of championship teams he's coached a lot of championship teams he's coached a lot of championship teams and some that were really struggling. and some that were really struggling. and some that were really struggling. And he brings all those insights to bear And he brings all those insights to bear And he brings all those insights to bear on your leadership. Hey, wherever you're on your leadership. Hey, wherever you're on your leadership. Hey, wherever you're watching, be sure to subscribe, follow, watching, be sure to subscribe, follow, watching, be sure to subscribe, follow, and leave a comment to join the and leave a comment to join the and leave a comment to join the conversation. And now, a word from conversation. And now, a word from conversation. And now, a word from today's partners. Then we'll dive right today's partners. Then we'll dive right today's partners. Then we'll dive right into my conversation with John Gordon.

into my conversation with John Gordon. into my conversation with John Gordon. This episode is brought to you by church This episode is brought to you by church This episode is brought to you by church salary. One of the most important and salary. One of the most important and salary. One of the most important and uncomfortable questions church leaders uncomfortable questions church leaders uncomfortable questions church leaders ask is, "Am I being paid fairly or am I ask is, "Am I being paid fairly or am I ask is, "Am I being paid fairly or am I paying my team fairly if you're the paying my team fairly if you're the paying my team fairly if you're the senior pastor?" That's why I've invited senior pastor?" That's why I've invited senior pastor?" That's why I've invited Brad Hill from Glue, who works alongside Brad Hill from Glue, who works alongside Brad Hill from Glue, who works alongside Church Salary, to tell us about a free Church Salary, to tell us about a free Church Salary, to tell us about a free tool that gives you clear answers. Brad. tool that gives you clear answers. Brad. tool that gives you clear answers. Brad. >> Yeah, thanks Carrie. You know, when it >> Yeah, thanks Carrie. You know, when it >> Yeah, thanks Carrie. You know, when it comes to fair pay in ministry, a lot of comes to fair pay in ministry, a lot of comes to fair pay in ministry, a lot of people just literally don't know where people just literally don't know where people just literally don't know where to start. And to solve that problem, and to start. And to solve that problem, and to start. And to solve that problem, and our partners over at Church Salary have our partners over at Church Salary have our partners over at Church Salary have created a pretty amazing new app, and it created a pretty amazing new app, and it created a pretty amazing new app, and it gives you a free salary report preview, gives you a free salary report preview, gives you a free salary report preview, and it looks at the current salary range and it looks at the current salary range and it looks at the current salary range for your role, but it bases it on real for your role, but it bases it on real for your role, but it bases it on real employees and real churches that kind of employees and real churches that kind of employees and real churches that kind of mirror your situation. So, you're saying mirror your situation. So, you're saying mirror your situation. So, you're saying if I'm a pastor in Virginia at a small if I'm a pastor in Virginia at a small if I'm a pastor in Virginia at a small church with 10 years of experience, church with 10 years of experience, church with 10 years of experience, your salary preview will take all of your salary preview will take all of your salary preview will take all of that into consideration. that into consideration. that into consideration. >> That's exactly right. Yeah. It looks at >> That's exactly right. Yeah. It looks at >> That's exactly right. Yeah. It looks at church size, level of education, church size, level of education, church size, level of education, experience, all those things. So, you experience, all those things. So, you experience, all those things. So, you know, whether you're evaluating staff know, whether you're evaluating staff know, whether you're evaluating staff salaries or like you said, Carrie, even salaries or like you said, Carrie, even salaries or like you said, Carrie, even trying to benchmark your own pay, this trying to benchmark your own pay, this trying to benchmark your own pay, this tool is going to help you get started.

tool is going to help you get started. tool is going to help you get started. >> Wow. So, it's not based on national >> Wow. So, it's not based on national >> Wow. So, it's not based on national averages or things you have to try to averages or things you have to try to averages or things you have to try to figure out for your own community. So, figure out for your own community. So, figure out for your own community. So, if you've got questions about church if you've got questions about church if you've got questions about church salaries, this is your starting place. salaries, this is your starting place. salaries, this is your starting place. You can visit church salary.com/carry. You can visit church salary.com/carry. You can visit church salary.com/carry. That's church salary.com/cy That's church salary.com/cy That's church salary.com/cy to get your free preview today. This to get your free preview today. This to get your free preview today. This podcast is brought to you by Blay. Well, podcast is brought to you by Blay. Well, podcast is brought to you by Blay. Well, what if your message could reach further what if your message could reach further what if your message could reach further without adding more to your plate? So, without adding more to your plate? So, without adding more to your plate? So, you were called to ministry to change you were called to ministry to change you were called to ministry to change lives, not to chase algorithms, design lives, not to chase algorithms, design lives, not to chase algorithms, design graphics, or manage marketing campaigns. graphics, or manage marketing campaigns. graphics, or manage marketing campaigns. Yet, too many pastors do that. And way Yet, too many pastors do that. And way Yet, too many pastors do that. And way too often, the urgent demands of digital too often, the urgent demands of digital too often, the urgent demands of digital outreach pull you away from what matters outreach pull you away from what matters outreach pull you away from what matters most, leading your people and sharing most, leading your people and sharing most, leading your people and sharing the gospel. You shouldn't have to choose the gospel. You shouldn't have to choose the gospel. You shouldn't have to choose between reaching more people and staying between reaching more people and staying between reaching more people and staying true to your calling. That's where true to your calling. That's where true to your calling. That's where Blay's expert marketing assistants come Blay's expert marketing assistants come Blay's expert marketing assistants come in. They help pastors like you grow your in. They help pastors like you grow your in. They help pastors like you grow your market presence without growing your market presence without growing your market presence without growing your to-do list. If you're not sure how to to-do list. If you're not sure how to to-do list. If you're not sure how to start, here's what you do. Download start, here's what you do. Download start, here's what you do. Download Ble's free resource, 15 tasks a pastor Ble's free resource, 15 tasks a pastor Ble's free resource, 15 tasks a pastor can delegate to a marketing assistant.

can delegate to a marketing assistant. can delegate to a marketing assistant. You'll discover exactly what to hand off You'll discover exactly what to hand off You'll discover exactly what to hand off so you can focus on your calling, not so you can focus on your calling, not so you can focus on your calling, not content calendars. How do you do it? content calendars. How do you do it? content calendars. How do you do it? Well, text the word carry, c a r e y, to Well, text the word carry, c a r e y, to Well, text the word carry, c a r e y, to 55123. 55123. 55123. That's carry to 55123. Let blay help you That's carry to 55123. Let blay help you That's carry to 55123. Let blay help you lead with greater focus and greater lead with greater focus and greater lead with greater focus and greater impact. Today's episode is brought to impact. Today's episode is brought to impact. Today's episode is brought to you by compassion. Well, you know, as you by compassion. Well, you know, as you by compassion. Well, you know, as followers of Jesus that we're called to followers of Jesus that we're called to followers of Jesus that we're called to live generously, not just when it's live generously, not just when it's live generously, not just when it's easy, but when it's inconvenient, too. easy, but when it's inconvenient, too. easy, but when it's inconvenient, too. And if I'm honest, there are days where And if I'm honest, there are days where And if I'm honest, there are days where that's just hard. Life gets busy, your that's just hard. Life gets busy, your that's just hard. Life gets busy, your calendar fills up, and sometimes calendar fills up, and sometimes calendar fills up, and sometimes compassion gets crowded out. But compassion gets crowded out. But compassion gets crowded out. But scriptures still clear. God calls us to scriptures still clear. God calls us to scriptures still clear. God calls us to reflect his nature at all times, reflect his nature at all times, reflect his nature at all times, displaying compassion, grace, and love displaying compassion, grace, and love displaying compassion, grace, and love even in the most challenging of even in the most challenging of even in the most challenging of circumstances. It's not a suggestion. circumstances. It's not a suggestion. circumstances. It's not a suggestion. It's a way of life. Generosity isn't It's a way of life. Generosity isn't It's a way of life. Generosity isn't just something we do. It's part of who just something we do. It's part of who just something we do. It's part of who we're called to be. And that's one of we're called to be. And that's one of we're called to be. And that's one of the reasons I've partnered with the reasons I've partnered with the reasons I've partnered with Compassion International. It's a simple, Compassion International. It's a simple, Compassion International. It's a simple, powerful way to reflect God's heart by powerful way to reflect God's heart by powerful way to reflect God's heart by stepping into the life of a child in stepping into the life of a child in stepping into the life of a child in need. So, if you're ready to grow your need. So, if you're ready to grow your need. So, if you're ready to grow your generosity and answer God's call, head generosity and answer God's call, head generosity and answer God's call, head on over to compassion.com/carry.

on over to compassion.com/carry. on over to compassion.com/carry. Don't wait. You'll want to start today. Don't wait. You'll want to start today. Don't wait. You'll want to start today. Go to compassion.com/carry. Go to compassion.com/carry. Go to compassion.com/carry. John, it's great to have you back on the John, it's great to have you back on the John, it's great to have you back on the podcast. podcast. podcast. >> Carrie, great to be with you. I love our >> Carrie, great to be with you. I love our >> Carrie, great to be with you. I love our conversations, and people always tell me conversations, and people always tell me conversations, and people always tell me that they heard me on your podcast, so I that they heard me on your podcast, so I that they heard me on your podcast, so I know you have a lot of amazing know you have a lot of amazing know you have a lot of amazing listeners. listeners. listeners. >> Oh, that's insane. I've I've loved our >> Oh, that's insane. I've I've loved our >> Oh, that's insane. I've I've loved our conversations. You and I spent a day conversations. You and I spent a day conversations. You and I spent a day together about a year, year and a half together about a year, year and a half together about a year, year and a half ago with Patrick Lanchion. That was so ago with Patrick Lanchion. That was so ago with Patrick Lanchion. That was so refreshing. I hope to get there this refreshing. I hope to get there this refreshing. I hope to get there this fall. Um, you're Yeah, you're doing fall. Um, you're Yeah, you're doing fall. Um, you're Yeah, you're doing really incredible work. And today, book really incredible work. And today, book really incredible work. And today, book 38. Are you kidding me? 38. Are you kidding me? 38. Are you kidding me? >> That's insane, man. I mean, you've >> That's insane, man. I mean, you've >> That's insane, man. I mean, you've written more books than most people have written more books than most people have written more books than most people have read. Uh, but we're going to do a deep read. Uh, but we're going to do a deep read. Uh, but we're going to do a deep dive into teams. I'm talking to a lot of dive into teams. I'm talking to a lot of dive into teams. I'm talking to a lot of leaders these days and particularly as leaders these days and particularly as leaders these days and particularly as their churches are growing, you know, their churches are growing, you know, their churches are growing, you know, they've gone from a couple hundred to they've gone from a couple hundred to they've gone from a couple hundred to 500 to a thousand or more in attendance 500 to a thousand or more in attendance 500 to a thousand or more in attendance on Sunday. Team issues just come up on Sunday. Team issues just come up on Sunday. Team issues just come up again and again and again. And uh you again and again and again. And uh you again and again and again. And uh you know, this is what you do, dude. You're know, this is what you do, dude. You're know, this is what you do, dude. You're like professional sports. How many how like professional sports. How many how like professional sports. How many how many teams have you consulted with many teams have you consulted with many teams have you consulted with professionally? Baldw professionally? Baldw professionally? Baldw >> I don't even know how many, but I know >> I don't even know how many, but I know >> I don't even know how many, but I know it's a lot. We're talking the LA Rams, it's a lot. We're talking the LA Rams, it's a lot. We're talking the LA Rams, the Dodgers, the Miami Heat, countless the Dodgers, the Miami Heat, countless the Dodgers, the Miami Heat, countless college teams of all all types, all college teams of all all types, all college teams of all all types, all different sports teams. Has to be a different sports teams. Has to be a different sports teams. Has to be a couple hundred probably over the years.

couple hundred probably over the years. couple hundred probably over the years. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, you've you've >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, you've you've >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, you've you've got pattern recognition going. You're got pattern recognition going. You're got pattern recognition going. You're connecting the dots. You're seeing what connecting the dots. You're seeing what connecting the dots. You're seeing what works. Um, let's start here, John. So works. Um, let's start here, John. So works. Um, let's start here, John. So many teams look great on paper, um, but many teams look great on paper, um, but many teams look great on paper, um, but they underperform or they fall apart. they underperform or they fall apart. they underperform or they fall apart. It's kind of like watching the All-Star It's kind of like watching the All-Star It's kind of like watching the All-Star game. It's never that exciting. It's not game. It's never that exciting. It's not game. It's never that exciting. It's not a great game, right? Sometimes it is, a great game, right? Sometimes it is, a great game, right? Sometimes it is, but not really. And you know, they go but not really. And you know, they go but not really. And you know, they go out and get the best players, they got out and get the best players, they got out and get the best players, they got number one picks, they get a couple of number one picks, they get a couple of number one picks, they get a couple of free agents. It just doesn't gel. What? free agents. It just doesn't gel. What? free agents. It just doesn't gel. What? Why? Why is it that what's happening on Why? Why is it that what's happening on Why? Why is it that what's happening on paper doesn't always translate into real paper doesn't always translate into real paper doesn't always translate into real world results? world results? world results? >> That's because talent won't take you to >> That's because talent won't take you to >> That's because talent won't take you to where you want to go. It's actually your where you want to go. It's actually your where you want to go. It's actually your commitments will. And so, if you have a commitments will. And so, if you have a commitments will. And so, if you have a team that's really committed to each team that's really committed to each team that's really committed to each other, then you become a stronger team. other, then you become a stronger team. other, then you become a stronger team. You know, when EMC and Dell merged You know, when EMC and Dell merged You know, when EMC and Dell merged together, I was working with their together, I was working with their together, I was working with their leadership teams in Ireland, in leadership teams in Ireland, in leadership teams in Ireland, in Singapore, in Austin, meeting with them, Singapore, in Austin, meeting with them, Singapore, in Austin, meeting with them, helping them become one team. And the helping them become one team. And the helping them become one team. And the idea of of one team sounds great on idea of of one team sounds great on idea of of one team sounds great on paper, but how do you actually become paper, but how do you actually become paper, but how do you actually become one team, one connected team? And so one team, one connected team? And so one team, one connected team? And so often it's about losing the egos. It's often it's about losing the egos. It's often it's about losing the egos. It's about the commitments they need to have.

about the commitments they need to have. about the commitments they need to have. And there's a series of of steps and And there's a series of of steps and And there's a series of of steps and processes that you have to go through. processes that you have to go through. processes that you have to go through. But but when a team does that, then you But but when a team does that, then you But but when a team does that, then you see them perform at a higher level. see them perform at a higher level. see them perform at a higher level. That's the beauty of this. And you said That's the beauty of this. And you said That's the beauty of this. And you said pattern recognition, I love that because pattern recognition, I love that because pattern recognition, I love that because you're right. Working with so many you're right. Working with so many you're right. Working with so many different business teams and school different business teams and school different business teams and school teams and sports teams, I can tell right teams and sports teams, I can tell right teams and sports teams, I can tell right away what where the dysfunction is. I away what where the dysfunction is. I away what where the dysfunction is. I can tell where the challenge is. I can can tell where the challenge is. I can can tell where the challenge is. I can tell what the issue is. I actually tell what the issue is. I actually tell what the issue is. I actually created a seven commitments checklist. created a seven commitments checklist. created a seven commitments checklist. And just by even looking at the And just by even looking at the And just by even looking at the checklist and seeing what you're doing checklist and seeing what you're doing checklist and seeing what you're doing right and what you're doing wrong, I can right and what you're doing wrong, I can right and what you're doing wrong, I can tell you what your issues are with the tell you what your issues are with the tell you what your issues are with the team. Isn't that interesting how when team. Isn't that interesting how when team. Isn't that interesting how when you've when you've had the kind of broad you've when you've had the kind of broad you've when you've had the kind of broad multi-deade experience that you have and multi-deade experience that you have and multi-deade experience that you have and again it's not just sports it's again it's not just sports it's again it's not just sports it's corporate it's high school it's um you corporate it's high school it's um you corporate it's high school it's um you know leadership events that kind of know leadership events that kind of know leadership events that kind of thing you can walk in within anywhere thing you can walk in within anywhere thing you can walk in within anywhere between 30 seconds and 5 minutes you got between 30 seconds and 5 minutes you got between 30 seconds and 5 minutes you got a pretty good read on the room right a pretty good read on the room right a pretty good read on the room right >> boom boom and and again even working >> boom boom and and again even working >> boom boom and and again even working with churches over the years like I have with churches over the years like I have with churches over the years like I have >> talking to the pastor talking to his >> talking to the pastor talking to his >> talking to the pastor talking to his staff seeing how they interact seeing staff seeing how they interact seeing staff seeing how they interact seeing the culture experiencing that what does the culture experiencing that what does the culture experiencing that what does it even feel like you can tell right it even feel like you can tell right it even feel like you can tell right away. And it's fun. There was one time I away. And it's fun. There was one time I away. And it's fun. There was one time I was with an NBA team and I was watching was with an NBA team and I was watching was with an NBA team and I was watching practice. After practice, I was meeting practice. After practice, I was meeting practice. After practice, I was meeting with the coaches and I said, you know, I with the coaches and I said, you know, I with the coaches and I said, you know, I can see things that maybe others don't can see things that maybe others don't can see things that maybe others don't see just because I've worked with so see just because I've worked with so see just because I've worked with so many teams. And one of the assistant many teams. And one of the assistant many teams. And one of the assistant coaches was very skeptical. And he said, coaches was very skeptical. And he said, coaches was very skeptical. And he said, "Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

"Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. "Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. >> What' you see? What' you see with us?" I >> What' you see? What' you see with us?" I >> What' you see? What' you see with us?" I can I said, "Well, so and so is not can I said, "Well, so and so is not can I said, "Well, so and so is not committed. So and so is probably dealing committed. So and so is probably dealing committed. So and so is probably dealing with a contract dispute right now and is with a contract dispute right now and is with a contract dispute right now and is not happy with the other team members. not happy with the other team members. not happy with the other team members. They're not happy with him. There's some They're not happy with him. There's some They're not happy with him. There's some some issues going on, some arguments. some issues going on, some arguments. some issues going on, some arguments. And the other coach who knew, you know, And the other coach who knew, you know, And the other coach who knew, you know, knew me really well. He said, "I didn't knew me really well. He said, "I didn't knew me really well. He said, "I didn't tell him. I didn't tell him." tell him. I didn't tell him." tell him. I didn't tell him." And it was a fun moment. I'm like, "I And it was a fun moment. I'm like, "I And it was a fun moment. I'm like, "I told you like I can watch and tell. I told you like I can watch and tell. I told you like I can watch and tell. I can watch a team on the field and tell. can watch a team on the field and tell. can watch a team on the field and tell. I can go to a school district and spend I can go to a school district and spend I can go to a school district and spend time with the staff and the leader and time with the staff and the leader and time with the staff and the leader and you can just tell because like a doctor you can just tell because like a doctor you can just tell because like a doctor sees symptoms and knows the symptoms are sees symptoms and knows the symptoms are sees symptoms and knows the symptoms are are the expression of a root issue. It's are the expression of a root issue. It's are the expression of a root issue. It's the same thing. There are symptoms on the same thing. There are symptoms on the same thing. There are symptoms on teams that are expressions of the root teams that are expressions of the root teams that are expressions of the root problems that team is experiencing. And problems that team is experiencing. And problems that team is experiencing. And it always goes to Gary the disconnection it always goes to Gary the disconnection it always goes to Gary the disconnection >> and and connection. Are we divided and >> and and connection. Are we divided and >> and and connection. Are we divided and disconnected or are we connected and disconnected or are we connected and disconnected or are we connected and united? And it's amazing because God united? And it's amazing because God united? And it's amazing because God created us for relationships. And as we created us for relationships. And as we created us for relationships. And as we have strong relationships, we're able to have strong relationships, we're able to have strong relationships, we're able to be more powerful together. But when we be more powerful together. But when we be more powerful together. But when we break apart in those relationships, in break apart in those relationships, in break apart in those relationships, in that trust, in that love, in that that trust, in that love, in that that trust, in that love, in that willingness to sacrifice, well, then the willingness to sacrifice, well, then the willingness to sacrifice, well, then the team becomes weaker and weaker. Am I team becomes weaker and weaker. Am I team becomes weaker and weaker. Am I focused on me or we? It's very clear focused on me or we? It's very clear focused on me or we? It's very clear when a leader is focused on me or we.

when a leader is focused on me or we. when a leader is focused on me or we. And the team will usually be a byproduct And the team will usually be a byproduct And the team will usually be a byproduct of that. Well, you've given us a couple of that. Well, you've given us a couple of that. Well, you've given us a couple already, but like when you're walking already, but like when you're walking already, but like when you're walking in, and I do this for churches, right? in, and I do this for churches, right? in, and I do this for churches, right? I'll visit a church, and you have a I'll visit a church, and you have a I'll visit a church, and you have a pretty good idea of the culture within pretty good idea of the culture within pretty good idea of the culture within minutes. What are some of the tells? minutes. What are some of the tells? minutes. What are some of the tells? What are some of the tells of a strong What are some of the tells of a strong What are some of the tells of a strong team commitment? And what are some of team commitment? And what are some of team commitment? And what are some of the tells of a weak team commitment the tells of a weak team commitment the tells of a weak team commitment where, you know, the fact that you'd where, you know, the fact that you'd where, you know, the fact that you'd watch a practice and go, "That guy's watch a practice and go, "That guy's watch a practice and go, "That guy's having a contract dispute. This person's having a contract dispute. This person's having a contract dispute. This person's upset." Like, again, you didn't know, upset." Like, again, you didn't know, upset." Like, again, you didn't know, but the tells were there, right? The but the tells were there, right? The but the tells were there, right? The symptoms were there. So, when you're symptoms were there. So, when you're symptoms were there. So, when you're seeing a team, what are some of the seeing a team, what are some of the seeing a team, what are some of the positive like, wo, this is a really positive like, wo, this is a really positive like, wo, this is a really strong team and some of the negative strong team and some of the negative strong team and some of the negative tells that are, oo, there's some work tells that are, oo, there's some work tells that are, oo, there's some work here. here. here. >> Well, for one, a great example is >> Well, for one, a great example is >> Well, for one, a great example is Cornell Lacrosse. They just won a Cornell Lacrosse. They just won a Cornell Lacrosse. They just won a national championship, and that's my national championship, and that's my national championship, and that's my team. I played at Cornell many years team. I played at Cornell many years team. I played at Cornell many years ago, and they just won this ago, and they just won this ago, and they just won this championship. So, right before the game, championship. So, right before the game, championship. So, right before the game, >> I'm watching them warm up, and these >> I'm watching them warm up, and these >> I'm watching them warm up, and these guys are hugging each other. These guys guys are hugging each other. These guys guys are hugging each other. These guys are are fist pounding. these guys are are are fist pounding. these guys are are are fist pounding. these guys are just loving on each other right before just loving on each other right before just loving on each other right before the game. Not after they won, but the game. Not after they won, but the game. Not after they won, but beforehand, I said, "Wow, these guys beforehand, I said, "Wow, these guys beforehand, I said, "Wow, these guys have a a connection. They have a bond.

have a a connection. They have a bond. have a a connection. They have a bond. They truly care about each other. They They truly care about each other. They They truly care about each other. They love each other." So, so physical love each other." So, so physical love each other." So, so physical contact, whether it's high fives, bumps, contact, whether it's high fives, bumps, contact, whether it's high fives, bumps, or hugs, are often a great sign of a or hugs, are often a great sign of a or hugs, are often a great sign of a team that is is connected and fighting team that is is connected and fighting team that is is connected and fighting for each other. And then you go to a for each other. And then you go to a for each other. And then you go to a team and are they huddling together or team and are they huddling together or team and are they huddling together or is half the team huddling, the other is half the team huddling, the other is half the team huddling, the other guys are are sitting down on the chair? guys are are sitting down on the chair? guys are are sitting down on the chair? You walk into a staff meeting of school You walk into a staff meeting of school You walk into a staff meeting of school leaders, the principal is talking. Is leaders, the principal is talking. Is leaders, the principal is talking. Is everyone listening? Are other people everyone listening? Are other people everyone listening? Are other people engaged and sharing or are they scared engaged and sharing or are they scared engaged and sharing or are they scared to talk? I just spoke to a a really to talk? I just spoke to a a really to talk? I just spoke to a a really great company the other day. All of great company the other day. All of great company the other day. All of their leaders, their 300 leaders, I their leaders, their 300 leaders, I their leaders, their 300 leaders, I think they have like I don't know 10 think they have like I don't know 10 think they have like I don't know 10 20,000 employees and all these great 20,000 employees and all these great 20,000 employees and all these great leaders gave their owner a standing leaders gave their owner a standing leaders gave their owner a standing ovation. I thought okay that's a great ovation. I thought okay that's a great ovation. I thought okay that's a great sign. I told them it's one of two things sign. I told them it's one of two things sign. I told them it's one of two things though. a lot of love with a lot of fear though. a lot of love with a lot of fear though. a lot of love with a lot of fear that you're giving the thing. that you're giving the thing. that you're giving the thing. >> Exactly. That can go both ways, right? >> Exactly. That can go both ways, right? >> Exactly. That can go both ways, right? >> Yeah. I I joked on that early. I said, >> Yeah. I I joked on that early. I said, >> Yeah. I I joked on that early. I said, "This is great." But you could tell that "This is great." But you could tell that "This is great." But you could tell that they really love their owner and they they really love their owner and they they really love their owner and they had a great great culture. So So those had a great great culture. So So those had a great great culture. So So those are just some of the tells in terms of are just some of the tells in terms of are just some of the tells in terms of it's body language, it's connection, it's body language, it's connection, it's body language, it's connection, it's their a love for each other, a love it's their a love for each other, a love it's their a love for each other, a love for work and also like a willingness to for work and also like a willingness to for work and also like a willingness to to sacrifice and commit. When you go to sacrifice and commit. When you go to sacrifice and commit. When you go through the seven commitments, it all through the seven commitments, it all through the seven commitments, it all makes sense. This is the new book I makes sense. This is the new book I makes sense. This is the new book I wrote and one of the commitments are the wrote and one of the commitments are the wrote and one of the commitments are the commitment to the vision and mission of commitment to the vision and mission of commitment to the vision and mission of the team. So are we all aligned on the the team. So are we all aligned on the the team. So are we all aligned on the vision and mission where we're going and vision and mission where we're going and vision and mission where we're going and why we're going there like do we all why we're going there like do we all why we're going there like do we all agree that this is our mission and we agree that this is our mission and we agree that this is our mission and we are willing to do whatever it takes to

are willing to do whatever it takes to are willing to do whatever it takes to achieve it of course in an appropriate achieve it of course in an appropriate achieve it of course in an appropriate ethical way. You know, it's interesting ethical way. You know, it's interesting ethical way. You know, it's interesting because I think a lot of church leaders because I think a lot of church leaders because I think a lot of church leaders would say, "Yeah, vision mission. We're would say, "Yeah, vision mission. We're would say, "Yeah, vision mission. We're crystal clear." But as you're describing crystal clear." But as you're describing crystal clear." But as you're describing how people are, and I don't want to name how people are, and I don't want to name how people are, and I don't want to name names, it's a former podcast guest, but names, it's a former podcast guest, but names, it's a former podcast guest, but I helped a a church with its um just I helped a a church with its um just I helped a a church with its um just some donor things it was doing, and they some donor things it was doing, and they some donor things it was doing, and they wanted me to speak into it. So, I went wanted me to speak into it. So, I went wanted me to speak into it. So, I went there for a few days to to their there for a few days to to their there for a few days to to their offsite. And one of the things that offsite. And one of the things that offsite. And one of the things that really blew me away in in a positive really blew me away in in a positive really blew me away in in a positive front was as all these guests arrived, front was as all these guests arrived, front was as all these guests arrived, their key volunteers, etc., their key volunteers, etc., their key volunteers, etc., There was a love in the room. It was a There was a love in the room. It was a There was a love in the room. It was a lot of warm embraces, a lot of hugs, and lot of warm embraces, a lot of hugs, and lot of warm embraces, a lot of hugs, and a lot of people meeting for the first a lot of people meeting for the first a lot of people meeting for the first time, but we felt like family from the time, but we felt like family from the time, but we felt like family from the moment we got there. And I thought, moment we got there. And I thought, moment we got there. And I thought, that's super cool. Really nice. And then that's super cool. Really nice. And then that's super cool. Really nice. And then there have been other times where I've there have been other times where I've there have been other times where I've been at a service run through and it's been at a service run through and it's been at a service run through and it's like a whole bunch of stiff volunteers like a whole bunch of stiff volunteers like a whole bunch of stiff volunteers who don't feel particularly connected, who don't feel particularly connected, who don't feel particularly connected, who are not, you know, high-fiving each who are not, you know, high-fiving each who are not, you know, high-fiving each other, bringing each other cups of other, bringing each other cups of other, bringing each other cups of coffee, that kind of thing. It's just coffee, that kind of thing. It's just coffee, that kind of thing. It's just kind of like everybody sit down, head kind of like everybody sit down, head kind of like everybody sit down, head down, do your job, fill the slot, go down, do your job, fill the slot, go down, do your job, fill the slot, go home. So, it's it's those kinds of home. So, it's it's those kinds of home. So, it's it's those kinds of invisible things. When you've been a invisible things. When you've been a invisible things. When you've been a leader in an organization for a long leader in an organization for a long leader in an organization for a long time, let's say somebody's listening to time, let's say somebody's listening to time, let's say somebody's listening to this, they've been there for five or six this, they've been there for five or six this, they've been there for five or six years, years, years, do you find it um easy for the senior do you find it um easy for the senior do you find it um easy for the senior leader to assume that they're warm, but leader to assume that they're warm, but leader to assume that they're warm, but they're not? In other words, it's sort they're not? In other words, it's sort they're not? In other words, it's sort of like your your walls need repainting, of like your your walls need repainting, of like your your walls need repainting, but you're in the room every day, so you but you're in the room every day, so you but you're in the room every day, so you don't see the scuff marks any anymore

don't see the scuff marks any anymore don't see the scuff marks any anymore kind of thing. Like, how do you how do kind of thing. Like, how do you how do kind of thing. Like, how do you how do you develop those eyes to know whether you develop those eyes to know whether you develop those eyes to know whether you've got the tells of a positive you've got the tells of a positive you've got the tells of a positive culture or a negative culture? Because I culture or a negative culture? Because I culture or a negative culture? Because I think every CEO thinks they're doing a think every CEO thinks they're doing a think every CEO thinks they're doing a great job. Every lead pastor is like, great job. Every lead pastor is like, great job. Every lead pastor is like, I'm awesome, I'm awesome, I'm awesome, >> right? They're not willing or they're >> right? They're not willing or they're >> right? They're not willing or they're not asking for feedback. And I have not asking for feedback. And I have not asking for feedback. And I have found that the best leaders want found that the best leaders want found that the best leaders want feedback. Feedback is the breakfast of feedback. Feedback is the breakfast of feedback. Feedback is the breakfast of champions for leaders. So, champions for leaders. So, champions for leaders. So, >> so the fact that you might be asking >> so the fact that you might be asking >> so the fact that you might be asking your team or looking for tells and your team or looking for tells and your team or looking for tells and really open is a sign that you're really open is a sign that you're really open is a sign that you're probably on the better side of that probably on the better side of that probably on the better side of that equation. equation. equation. >> Oh yeah. In our workshops, we encourage >> Oh yeah. In our workshops, we encourage >> Oh yeah. In our workshops, we encourage leaders to ask their team on a scale of leaders to ask their team on a scale of leaders to ask their team on a scale of 1 to 10, how well am I communicating 1 to 10, how well am I communicating 1 to 10, how well am I communicating with you and what would make it a 10? with you and what would make it a 10? with you and what would make it a 10? And you're going to get great feedback And you're going to get great feedback And you're going to get great feedback and great advice. I had one leader say, and great advice. I had one leader say, and great advice. I had one leader say, "I did this with my team and many said "I did this with my team and many said "I did this with my team and many said what I wanted to hear, but a few said what I wanted to hear, but a few said what I wanted to hear, but a few said what I needed to hear." And with tears what I needed to hear." And with tears what I needed to hear." And with tears in his eyes, he shared how he needed to in his eyes, he shared how he needed to in his eyes, he shared how he needed to get better. And those conversations made get better. And those conversations made get better. And those conversations made him better. So even if you think you're him better. So even if you think you're him better. So even if you think you're great, be willing to try this with your great, be willing to try this with your great, be willing to try this with your team and organization. Everyone should team and organization. Everyone should team and organization. Everyone should be writing this down right now and be writing this down right now and be writing this down right now and saying, "Okay, I'm going to go back to saying, "Okay, I'm going to go back to saying, "Okay, I'm going to go back to my team and say, on a scale of 1 to 10, my team and say, on a scale of 1 to 10, my team and say, on a scale of 1 to 10, how well do I communicate with you?"

how well do I communicate with you?" how well do I communicate with you?" Also, you can ask this. What's it like Also, you can ask this. What's it like Also, you can ask this. What's it like to be led by me? What's it like on the to be led by me? What's it like on the to be led by me? What's it like on the other side of me? And ask for feedback other side of me? And ask for feedback other side of me? And ask for feedback and be open to it. Again, you have to and be open to it. Again, you have to and be open to it. Again, you have to have humility. There has to be trust. If have humility. There has to be trust. If have humility. There has to be trust. If there's no trust though, people are not there's no trust though, people are not there's no trust though, people are not going to share the truth. They're going going to share the truth. They're going going to share the truth. They're going to be afraid to share the truth. So, you to be afraid to share the truth. So, you to be afraid to share the truth. So, you also have to be willing to share. I also have to be willing to share. I also have to be willing to share. I remember with my kids, we sat down at remember with my kids, we sat down at remember with my kids, we sat down at the table when they were older in their the table when they were older in their the table when they were older in their 20 early 20s and I said, "Okay, what' I 20 early 20s and I said, "Okay, what' I 20 early 20s and I said, "Okay, what' I do wrong? What could I have done better? do wrong? What could I have done better? do wrong? What could I have done better? Tell me what I've could have done to be Tell me what I've could have done to be Tell me what I've could have done to be a better dad. a better dad. a better dad. >> Big question, >> Big question, >> Big question, >> Carrie. We were there for hours. >> Carrie. We were there for hours. >> Carrie. We were there for hours. >> Like, well, here's the list. >> Like, well, here's the list. >> Like, well, here's the list. >> Here's the list. No, but honestly, there >> Here's the list. No, but honestly, there >> Here's the list. No, but honestly, there were things and not It wasn't ours, but were things and not It wasn't ours, but were things and not It wasn't ours, but we went through them. And I'm like, you we went through them. And I'm like, you we went through them. And I'm like, you know what? You're right. I'm sorry. I know what? You're right. I'm sorry. I know what? You're right. I'm sorry. I wish I didn't put so much pressure on wish I didn't put so much pressure on wish I didn't put so much pressure on you when you were younger. I wish you you when you were younger. I wish you you when you were younger. I wish you didn't feel my intensity and stress that didn't feel my intensity and stress that didn't feel my intensity and stress that I put on you because I was a high I put on you because I was a high I put on you because I was a high achiever and I put that on you. It was a achiever and I put that on you. It was a achiever and I put that on you. It was a great conversation to be able to to say great conversation to be able to to say great conversation to be able to to say that and and share that. So even now that and and share that. So even now that and and share that. So even now with my team now at work, I will with my team now at work, I will with my team now at work, I will literally there are moments where I'll literally there are moments where I'll literally there are moments where I'll say to my team, hey, what could I do say to my team, hey, what could I do say to my team, hey, what could I do better? And I know I'm working on this.

better? And I know I'm working on this. better? And I know I'm working on this. Do you notice? Can you tell? And for Do you notice? Can you tell? And for Do you notice? Can you tell? And for instance, like I write and share a lot instance, like I write and share a lot instance, like I write and share a lot about positive leadership. And yet there about positive leadership. And yet there about positive leadership. And yet there are moments I get frustrated. There are are moments I get frustrated. There are are moments I get frustrated. There are moments that the team is not doing what moments that the team is not doing what moments that the team is not doing what they needed to do and I get frustrated they needed to do and I get frustrated they needed to do and I get frustrated or they're not seeing the vision. And or they're not seeing the vision. And or they're not seeing the vision. And because I'm a visionary, they often because I'm a visionary, they often because I'm a visionary, they often don't see And that's common with people don't see And that's common with people don't see And that's common with people who have, you know, these visions for who have, you know, these visions for who have, you know, these visions for the future and what it should look like the future and what it should look like the future and what it should look like and they want their team to just be on and they want their team to just be on and they want their team to just be on board and get it. So that's frustrating board and get it. So that's frustrating board and get it. So that's frustrating too for me at times and I recognize too for me at times and I recognize too for me at times and I recognize that. I know that I teach this but I that. I know that I teach this but I that. I know that I teach this but I also see it within myselves. You know, I also see it within myselves. You know, I also see it within myselves. You know, I got a great compliment the other day got a great compliment the other day got a great compliment the other day because one of my my top team members, because one of my my top team members, because one of my my top team members, they said, "I can tell you've been they said, "I can tell you've been they said, "I can tell you've been working on it." So I thought, "All working on it." So I thought, "All working on it." So I thought, "All right, great. They can tell." Wow. right, great. They can tell." Wow. right, great. They can tell." Wow. >> They can tell. So even the guy who >> They can tell. So even the guy who >> They can tell. So even the guy who writes about positive leadership and how writes about positive leadership and how writes about positive leadership and how to be a great leader to be a great leader to be a great leader >> struggles. And here's what I know. I'm >> struggles. And here's what I know. I'm >> struggles. And here's what I know. I'm not the best leader. I really believe not the best leader. I really believe not the best leader. I really believe I'm the best at helping leaders build I'm the best at helping leaders build I'm the best at helping leaders build stronger teams. That's what I do. I help stronger teams. That's what I do. I help stronger teams. That's what I do. I help leaders build stronger teams and to be leaders build stronger teams and to be leaders build stronger teams and to be better leaders themselves, but I have to better leaders themselves, but I have to better leaders themselves, but I have to work on my own leadership. So, now that work on my own leadership. So, now that work on my own leadership. So, now that I'm doing that, I really feel a desire I'm doing that, I really feel a desire I'm doing that, I really feel a desire and a goal to even help other leaders and a goal to even help other leaders and a goal to even help other leaders recognize this as well as you're talking recognize this as well as you're talking recognize this as well as you're talking about. So, I think it's a great question about. So, I think it's a great question about. So, I think it's a great question you asked in terms of, you know, how can you asked in terms of, you know, how can you asked in terms of, you know, how can the leader be aware of it? And first the leader be aware of it? And first the leader be aware of it? And first they have to want to be aware and then they have to want to be aware and then they have to want to be aware and then they have to be willing to ask their they have to be willing to ask their they have to be willing to ask their team members and then you have to be team members and then you have to be team members and then you have to be able to build the relationships. I able to build the relationships. I able to build the relationships. I really believe you have to connect really believe you have to connect really believe you have to connect before you correct. So making sure that before you correct. So making sure that before you correct. So making sure that you are connecting with your team before you are connecting with your team before you are connecting with your team before correction could happen and it goes both correction could happen and it goes both correction could happen and it goes both ways because you need to ask for how you ways because you need to ask for how you ways because you need to ask for how you can be corrected and you have to connect

can be corrected and you have to connect can be corrected and you have to connect in order to correct your team members so in order to correct your team members so in order to correct your team members so they know that you have their best they know that you have their best they know that you have their best interest at heart. interest at heart. interest at heart. >> This episode is brought to you by church >> This episode is brought to you by church >> This episode is brought to you by church salary. One of the most important and salary. One of the most important and salary. One of the most important and uncomfortable questions church leaders uncomfortable questions church leaders uncomfortable questions church leaders ask is, "Am I being paid fairly or am I ask is, "Am I being paid fairly or am I ask is, "Am I being paid fairly or am I paying my team fairly if you're the paying my team fairly if you're the paying my team fairly if you're the senior pastor?" That's why I've invited senior pastor?" That's why I've invited senior pastor?" That's why I've invited Brad Hill from Glue, who works alongside Brad Hill from Glue, who works alongside Brad Hill from Glue, who works alongside Church Salary, to tell us about a free Church Salary, to tell us about a free Church Salary, to tell us about a free tool that gives you clear answers. Brad. tool that gives you clear answers. Brad. tool that gives you clear answers. Brad. >> Yeah, thanks Gary. You know, when it >> Yeah, thanks Gary. You know, when it >> Yeah, thanks Gary. You know, when it comes to fair pay in ministry, a lot of comes to fair pay in ministry, a lot of comes to fair pay in ministry, a lot of people just literally don't know where people just literally don't know where people just literally don't know where to start. And to solve that problem, our to start. And to solve that problem, our to start. And to solve that problem, our partners over at Church Salary have partners over at Church Salary have partners over at Church Salary have created a pretty amazing new app and it created a pretty amazing new app and it created a pretty amazing new app and it gives you a free salary report preview gives you a free salary report preview gives you a free salary report preview and it looks at the current salary range and it looks at the current salary range and it looks at the current salary range for your role, but it bases it on real for your role, but it bases it on real for your role, but it bases it on real employees and real churches that kind of employees and real churches that kind of employees and real churches that kind of mirror your situation. mirror your situation. mirror your situation. >> So you're saying if I'm a pastor in >> So you're saying if I'm a pastor in >> So you're saying if I'm a pastor in Virginia at a small church with 10 years Virginia at a small church with 10 years Virginia at a small church with 10 years of experience, of experience, of experience, your salary preview will take all of your salary preview will take all of your salary preview will take all of that into consideration.

that into consideration. that into consideration. >> That's exactly right. Yeah, it looks at >> That's exactly right. Yeah, it looks at >> That's exactly right. Yeah, it looks at church size, level of education, church size, level of education, church size, level of education, experience, all those things. So, you experience, all those things. So, you experience, all those things. So, you know, whether you're evaluating staff know, whether you're evaluating staff know, whether you're evaluating staff salaries or like you said, Carrie, even salaries or like you said, Carrie, even salaries or like you said, Carrie, even trying to benchmark your own pay, this trying to benchmark your own pay, this trying to benchmark your own pay, this tool is going to help you get started. tool is going to help you get started. tool is going to help you get started. >> Wow. So, it's not based on national >> Wow. So, it's not based on national >> Wow. So, it's not based on national averages or things you have to try to averages or things you have to try to averages or things you have to try to figure out for your own community. So, figure out for your own community. So, figure out for your own community. So, if you've got questions about church if you've got questions about church if you've got questions about church salaries, this is your starting place. salaries, this is your starting place. salaries, this is your starting place. You can visit churchsaly.com/carry. You can visit churchsaly.com/carry. You can visit churchsaly.com/carry. That's church salary.com/cy That's church salary.com/cy That's church salary.com/cy to get your free preview today. I agree to get your free preview today. I agree to get your free preview today. I agree with that. Connect before you correct. with that. Connect before you correct. with that. Connect before you correct. And also just to add my two cents, one And also just to add my two cents, one And also just to add my two cents, one of the reasons I started this podcast of the reasons I started this podcast of the reasons I started this podcast 750 some odd interviews later. 750 some odd interviews later. 750 some odd interviews later. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Is I want to get better in my >> Is I want to get better in my >> Is I want to get better in my leadership. I'm not there yet and I keep leadership. I'm not there yet and I keep leadership. I'm not there yet and I keep learning and growing. John, what is one learning and growing. John, what is one learning and growing. John, what is one thing you believe is absolutely true thing you believe is absolutely true thing you believe is absolutely true about teams that almost no one else about teams that almost no one else about teams that almost no one else does, but you swear by? does, but you swear by? does, but you swear by? >> Like it's like rare belief. You're >> Like it's like rare belief. You're >> Like it's like rare belief. You're convinced everyone needs to know this, convinced everyone needs to know this, convinced everyone needs to know this, but maybe it's not a popular idea.

>> I'm convinced >> I'm convinced that you do have to challenge each other that you do have to challenge each other that you do have to challenge each other in order to get better. And I know that in order to get better. And I know that in order to get better. And I know that some people think this, but not some people think this, but not some people think this, but not everybody recognizes. They think, okay, everybody recognizes. They think, okay, everybody recognizes. They think, okay, if we're going to be a positive team, we if we're going to be a positive team, we if we're going to be a positive team, we can't have difficult conversations. can't have difficult conversations. can't have difficult conversations. I believe you have to have difficult I believe you have to have difficult I believe you have to have difficult conversations in order to be a great conversations in order to be a great conversations in order to be a great team. You have to move from like to team. You have to move from like to team. You have to move from like to love. You have to move from the surface love. You have to move from the surface love. You have to move from the surface level to greater intimacy and level to greater intimacy and level to greater intimacy and connection. And I also would add that connection. And I also would add that connection. And I also would add that you have to make the time to do you have to make the time to do you have to make the time to do intentional team building exercises in intentional team building exercises in intentional team building exercises in order to grow as a team. A couple will order to grow as a team. A couple will order to grow as a team. A couple will go to therapy in order to get better. go to therapy in order to get better. go to therapy in order to get better. They go to counseling. Well, I've seen They go to counseling. Well, I've seen They go to counseling. Well, I've seen teams that have technically gone to team teams that have technically gone to team teams that have technically gone to team building type counseling that have building type counseling that have building type counseling that have healed these teams, united and bonded healed these teams, united and bonded healed these teams, united and bonded them together, and then produced them together, and then produced them together, and then produced incredible results as a result of that incredible results as a result of that incredible results as a result of that over and over again. So that's my big over and over again. So that's my big over and over again. So that's my big thing in terms of connection and thing in terms of connection and thing in terms of connection and commitment. I talk about this more than commitment. I talk about this more than commitment. I talk about this more than anything. One of our key commitments is anything. One of our key commitments is anything. One of our key commitments is the commitment to connect. Teams must the commitment to connect. Teams must the commitment to connect. Teams must commit to connect with each other in commit to connect with each other in commit to connect with each other in order to get better because you'll never order to get better because you'll never order to get better because you'll never have commitment without connection. So have commitment without connection. So have commitment without connection. So the more connected you are, the more the more connected you are, the more the more connected you are, the more committed you'll be. But here's the committed you'll be. But here's the committed you'll be. But here's the other factor and and we talk about this, other factor and and we talk about this, other factor and and we talk about this, we know this, but every team member I we know this, but every team member I we know this, but every team member I believe and maybe others talk about believe and maybe others talk about believe and maybe others talk about this, I'm not sure, but you have to give this, I'm not sure, but you have to give this, I'm not sure, but you have to give something to your team. Everyone talks something to your team. Everyone talks something to your team. Everyone talks about that you have to give. But here's about that you have to give. But here's about that you have to give. But here's the other thing. I do believe you have the other thing. I do believe you have the other thing. I do believe you have to give up. So commitment is going to

to give up. So commitment is going to to give up. So commitment is going to cost you. So there's something that cost you. So there's something that cost you. So there's something that you're going to have to give up in order you're going to have to give up in order you're going to have to give up in order to be a team member, a great team to be a team member, a great team to be a team member, a great team member. In my own personal relationship, member. In my own personal relationship, member. In my own personal relationship, I gave up golf. Like I wasn't going to I gave up golf. Like I wasn't going to I gave up golf. Like I wasn't going to play golf for 18 holes and be away from play golf for 18 holes and be away from play golf for 18 holes and be away from my wife and kids. I had to give that my wife and kids. I had to give that my wife and kids. I had to give that goal and desire up. That's why I'm a goal and desire up. That's why I'm a goal and desire up. That's why I'm a horrible golfer, right? So I would like horrible golfer, right? So I would like horrible golfer, right? So I would like to be a better golf. to be a better golf. to be a better golf. >> I gave up golf for family, too. I did. >> I gave up golf for family, too. I did. >> I gave up golf for family, too. I did. >> Yeah. had to give that up. You have to >> Yeah. had to give that up. You have to >> Yeah. had to give that up. You have to give up sometimes your desire to be give up sometimes your desire to be give up sometimes your desire to be right in order to the relationship to right in order to the relationship to right in order to the relationship to get better. If you are arguing and even get better. If you are arguing and even get better. If you are arguing and even if you win the argument, you both lose. if you win the argument, you both lose. if you win the argument, you both lose. So, I had to give that desire to be So, I had to give that desire to be So, I had to give that desire to be right up. For a team, there are things right up. For a team, there are things right up. For a team, there are things you have to give up. If if it's an you have to give up. If if it's an you have to give up. If if it's an athletic team, maybe you have to give up athletic team, maybe you have to give up athletic team, maybe you have to give up always wanting to score in order for always wanting to score in order for always wanting to score in order for other players to score and get better. other players to score and get better. other players to score and get better. So whatever it may be the commitment So whatever it may be the commitment So whatever it may be the commitment will cost you something time energy will cost you something time energy will cost you something time energy effort or some accolade that you offer effort or some accolade that you offer effort or some accolade that you offer yourself but what I have found is when yourself but what I have found is when yourself but what I have found is when you commit the reward is so much greater you commit the reward is so much greater you commit the reward is so much greater that it comes back to that might have that it comes back to that might have that it comes back to that might have been three things that you that I shared been three things that you that I shared been three things that you that I shared for your answer but those are some of for your answer but those are some of for your answer but those are some of the things the things the things >> those are great and I love where you >> those are great and I love where you >> those are great and I love where you started and I wanted to pick up on that started and I wanted to pick up on that started and I wanted to pick up on that because this is a real challenge because this is a real challenge because this is a real challenge particularly for church leaders non particularly for church leaders non particularly for church leaders non nonprofit leaders you said we have to nonprofit leaders you said we have to nonprofit leaders you said we have to challenge each other and that's part I challenge each other and that's part I challenge each other and that's part I mean you're Mr. positivity, right? Your mean you're Mr. positivity, right? Your mean you're Mr. positivity, right? Your whole company, your whole approach is whole company, your whole approach is whole company, your whole approach is positive leadership. And I think positive leadership. And I think positive leadership. And I think sometimes you get into, you know, toxic sometimes you get into, you know, toxic sometimes you get into, you know, toxic positivity where everything's just sunny positivity where everything's just sunny positivity where everything's just sunny all the time. But I find there's two

all the time. But I find there's two all the time. But I find there's two poles in church world. One is the poles in church world. One is the poles in church world. One is the shepherd pastor person who's like, I shepherd pastor person who's like, I shepherd pastor person who's like, I can't confront anybody about anything. can't confront anybody about anything. can't confront anybody about anything. Meanwhile, he or she knows they have all Meanwhile, he or she knows they have all Meanwhile, he or she knows they have all these B players who are making too much these B players who are making too much these B players who are making too much money for what they actually produce. money for what they actually produce. money for what they actually produce. They're not bringing their best. Maybe They're not bringing their best. Maybe They're not bringing their best. Maybe they've been on the team for 20 years. they've been on the team for 20 years. they've been on the team for 20 years. They're afraid to have the conversation They're afraid to have the conversation They're afraid to have the conversation with them going, "Carrie, you're just with them going, "Carrie, you're just with them going, "Carrie, you're just not delivering in this season." So, they not delivering in this season." So, they not delivering in this season." So, they don't want to challenge because they don't want to challenge because they don't want to challenge because they have too much of a heart. Well, it's have too much of a heart. Well, it's have too much of a heart. Well, it's okay. Carrie will be retired in a decade okay. Carrie will be retired in a decade okay. Carrie will be retired in a decade anyway. You know, we'll just just let anyway. You know, we'll just just let anyway. You know, we'll just just let them ride out into the sunset. And then them ride out into the sunset. And then them ride out into the sunset. And then you have high performance cultures where you have high performance cultures where you have high performance cultures where it's all about performance and all about it's all about performance and all about it's all about performance and all about OKRs or, you know, monthly goals and if OKRs or, you know, monthly goals and if OKRs or, you know, monthly goals and if you miss it, you're gone. And people you miss it, you're gone. And people you miss it, you're gone. And people live in fear which you've always and live in fear which you've always and live in fear which you've always and there there seems to be this polarity in there there seems to be this polarity in there there seems to be this polarity in charities and in churches where and charities and in churches where and charities and in churches where and mostly it's the first category. I'm not mostly it's the first category. I'm not mostly it's the first category. I'm not going to confront you. You know what going to confront you. You know what going to confront you. You know what you're not very competent but I'll just you're not very competent but I'll just you're not very competent but I'll just hire someone else and now we have a hire someone else and now we have a hire someone else and now we have a bloated budget.

bloated budget. bloated budget. What what do you say first of all to What what do you say first of all to What what do you say first of all to leaders who are afraid to challenge or leaders who are afraid to challenge or leaders who are afraid to challenge or confront or have the hard conversations? confront or have the hard conversations? confront or have the hard conversations? What's the what's the problem with that? What's the what's the problem with that? What's the what's the problem with that? We talk a lot about that actually. We We talk a lot about that actually. We We talk a lot about that actually. We talk about positive leaders are talk about positive leaders are talk about positive leaders are demanding but not demeaning. So, it's demanding but not demeaning. So, it's demanding but not demeaning. So, it's okay to be demanding. And here's the okay to be demanding. And here's the okay to be demanding. And here's the best thing you can do as a leader for best thing you can do as a leader for best thing you can do as a leader for your team. You set the standard. What your team. You set the standard. What your team. You set the standard. What does it look like to perform at your does it look like to perform at your does it look like to perform at your highest level? What's the expectation highest level? What's the expectation highest level? What's the expectation for this staff, for this person, for for this staff, for this person, for for this staff, for this person, for this team, for this volunteer? What is this team, for this volunteer? What is this team, for this volunteer? What is the expectation? You set the the expectation? You set the the expectation? You set the expectation. This is what we expect of expectation. This is what we expect of expectation. This is what we expect of you. and then this is what you can you. and then this is what you can you. and then this is what you can expect from me and from us, the expect from me and from us, the expect from me and from us, the leadership team. Once you've set the leadership team. Once you've set the leadership team. Once you've set the expectations and the standards, now expectations and the standards, now expectations and the standards, now you're leading to the standards. It's so you're leading to the standards. It's so you're leading to the standards. It's so much easier because it's not personal. much easier because it's not personal. much easier because it's not personal. I'm going to coach you along the way. I'm going to coach you along the way. I'm going to coach you along the way. I'm going to support you. I'm going to I'm going to support you. I'm going to I'm going to support you. I'm going to encourage you, but I'm also going to encourage you, but I'm also going to encourage you, but I'm also going to challenge you as we have to meet the challenge you as we have to meet the challenge you as we have to meet the standard. I'm going to show you what it standard. I'm going to show you what it standard. I'm going to show you what it looks like. Coaches will show the film.

looks like. Coaches will show the film. looks like. Coaches will show the film. This is what a great play looks like, This is what a great play looks like, This is what a great play looks like, and this is what a horrible play looks and this is what a horrible play looks and this is what a horrible play looks like. And we have to do that with our like. And we have to do that with our like. And we have to do that with our churches. We have to say, "Hey, that was churches. We have to say, "Hey, that was churches. We have to say, "Hey, that was a great move on Sunday. You can see what a great move on Sunday. You can see what a great move on Sunday. You can see what you did here, and this was not so good. you did here, and this was not so good. you did here, and this was not so good. This made us worse." We have to be This made us worse." We have to be This made us worse." We have to be willing to tell the truth. You have to willing to tell the truth. You have to willing to tell the truth. You have to have like a tell the truth Monday have like a tell the truth Monday have like a tell the truth Monday session, just like the Seattle Seahawks session, just like the Seattle Seahawks session, just like the Seattle Seahawks did under P. Carroll after every game on did under P. Carroll after every game on did under P. Carroll after every game on Sunday. On Monday, they would have tell Sunday. On Monday, they would have tell Sunday. On Monday, they would have tell the truth Mondays where they would tell the truth Mondays where they would tell the truth Mondays where they would tell the truth of who messed up, who need to the truth of who messed up, who need to the truth of who messed up, who need to play better, who missed the assignment. play better, who missed the assignment. play better, who missed the assignment. And they called people out, but everyone And they called people out, but everyone And they called people out, but everyone knew it was okay because they were knew it was okay because they were knew it was okay because they were calling them up to greatness. They were calling them up to greatness. They were calling them up to greatness. They were calling them up to get better. And calling them up to get better. And calling them up to get better. And everyone understood this is part of a everyone understood this is part of a everyone understood this is part of a cult our culture. This is how we're cult our culture. This is how we're cult our culture. This is how we're going to get better, and we're going to going to get better, and we're going to going to get better, and we're going to bring it to light. We're going to share bring it to light. We're going to share bring it to light. We're going to share the truth so we can all improve. And no the truth so we can all improve. And no the truth so we can all improve. And no one took it personal. And I think that's one took it personal. And I think that's one took it personal. And I think that's the key. That's your culture that you the key. That's your culture that you the key. That's your culture that you have to create at your church, at your have to create at your church, at your have to create at your church, at your organization, at your business. You organization, at your business. You organization, at your business. You create the culture that way and said, create the culture that way and said, create the culture that way and said, "This is how we're going to do things." "This is how we're going to do things." "This is how we're going to do things." You model it and then you start to You model it and then you start to You model it and then you start to reinforce it and do it on a daily basis, reinforce it and do it on a daily basis, reinforce it and do it on a daily basis, a weekly basis. And everyone comes to a weekly basis. And everyone comes to a weekly basis. And everyone comes to expect it. Then they see that this is expect it. Then they see that this is expect it. Then they see that this is the way it is. And they're going to be the way it is. And they're going to be the way it is. And they're going to be exposed whether they can do their job or exposed whether they can do their job or exposed whether they can do their job or not. And if they can't, then the next not. And if they can't, then the next not. And if they can't, then the next conversation is all right, let's find a conversation is all right, let's find a conversation is all right, let's find a role and a position for you that will be role and a position for you that will be role and a position for you that will be best for you and the best for the best for you and the best for the best for you and the best for the organization. And you start having those organization. And you start having those organization. And you start having those conversations. As long as you're conversations. As long as you're conversations. As long as you're willing, you have a great attitude, you willing, you have a great attitude, you willing, you have a great attitude, you give great effort, I'm sure there's some give great effort, I'm sure there's some give great effort, I'm sure there's some role and competency for you, but it role and competency for you, but it role and competency for you, but it might not be this role that you're in

might not be this role that you're in might not be this role that you're in because we can't be our best as an because we can't be our best as an because we can't be our best as an organization. We can't be our best organization. We can't be our best organization. We can't be our best church or our best business if we have church or our best business if we have church or our best business if we have someone in a role that they are not someone in a role that they are not someone in a role that they are not meant for or not skilled in. And you're meant for or not skilled in. And you're meant for or not skilled in. And you're not going to put 150 50 pound person as not going to put 150 50 pound person as not going to put 150 50 pound person as the center of a football team in the the center of a football team in the the center of a football team in the NFL. So you have to have the right skill NFL. So you have to have the right skill NFL. So you have to have the right skill sets and the right talents for each sets and the right talents for each sets and the right talents for each position and and that's the key. So it position and and that's the key. So it position and and that's the key. So it comes down to love and accountability. comes down to love and accountability. comes down to love and accountability. And guess what? And guess what? And guess what? >> If you're a church who modeled this >> If you're a church who modeled this >> If you're a church who modeled this Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, >> grace and truth. So you got to lead with >> grace and truth. So you got to lead with >> grace and truth. So you got to lead with the grace. You got to lead with the love the grace. You got to lead with the love the grace. You got to lead with the love first. Lead with that connection and first. Lead with that connection and first. Lead with that connection and then you lead with the correction and then you lead with the correction and then you lead with the correction and the truth and the challenge. And once the truth and the challenge. And once the truth and the challenge. And once you build the relationship, the love and you build the relationship, the love and you build the relationship, the love and accountability piece is key. There's accountability piece is key. There's accountability piece is key. There's love and encouragement, but there's an love and encouragement, but there's an love and encouragement, but there's an accountability one to the culture, to accountability one to the culture, to accountability one to the culture, to the values, to the principles, and then the values, to the principles, and then the values, to the principles, and then also to our standards of expectations of also to our standards of expectations of also to our standards of expectations of performance. So, you've been in performance. So, you've been in performance. So, you've been in hundreds, if not thousands of locker hundreds, if not thousands of locker hundreds, if not thousands of locker rooms watching everything from world rooms watching everything from world rooms watching everything from world championship teams to teams that are one championship teams to teams that are one championship teams to teams that are one and 16 for the season. You've seen the and 16 for the season. You've seen the and 16 for the season. You've seen the absolute best coach talks in the worst absolute best coach talks in the worst absolute best coach talks in the worst coach talks. I want to focus on the best coach talks. I want to focus on the best coach talks. I want to focus on the best because you're right, people come in because you're right, people come in because you're right, people come in whether it's tell the truth Mondays or whether it's tell the truth Mondays or whether it's tell the truth Mondays or we're going to watch that game film or we're going to watch that game film or we're going to watch that game film or here's why we lost or here's, you know, here's why we lost or here's, you know, here's why we lost or here's, you know, we're going to get to the quarterfinals, we're going to get to the quarterfinals, we're going to get to the quarterfinals, we're not going to get to the finals we're not going to get to the finals we're not going to get to the finals unless we turn it around. When you see unless we turn it around. When you see unless we turn it around. When you see some coach at the top of their game

some coach at the top of their game some coach at the top of their game bringing the best, I love the way you bringing the best, I love the way you bringing the best, I love the way you phrased it. You said calling them up, phrased it. You said calling them up, phrased it. You said calling them up, not calling them out, right? You're not calling them out, right? You're not calling them out, right? You're calling them up. What are they doing? calling them up. What are they doing? calling them up. What are they doing? What are they saying? What does that What are they saying? What does that What are they saying? What does that look like? What does it sound like? look like? What does it sound like? look like? What does it sound like? It's got to be Davos Sweeney pointing It's got to be Davos Sweeney pointing It's got to be Davos Sweeney pointing his team towards the future. The head his team towards the future. The head his team towards the future. The head coach of Clemson football, Dabos coach of Clemson football, Dabos coach of Clemson football, Dabos Sweeney, is unbelievable. Here's Sweeney, is unbelievable. Here's Sweeney, is unbelievable. Here's something I have to share about him, something I have to share about him, something I have to share about him, Gary. We just had our training camp Gary. We just had our training camp Gary. We just had our training camp event where Dabo came and Shawn McVey, event where Dabo came and Shawn McVey, event where Dabo came and Shawn McVey, Eddie George, Trent Dilur, M. Brown, Eddie George, Trent Dilur, M. Brown, Eddie George, Trent Dilur, M. Brown, Kevin Oonnell, the coach of the Vikings, Kevin Oonnell, the coach of the Vikings, Kevin Oonnell, the coach of the Vikings, Cory Close, UCLA women's basketball. It Cory Close, UCLA women's basketball. It Cory Close, UCLA women's basketball. It was this incredible event of all these was this incredible event of all these was this incredible event of all these coaches. And when I got to introduce coaches. And when I got to introduce coaches. And when I got to introduce Dabo, I talked about how years ago, Dabo, I talked about how years ago, Dabo, I talked about how years ago, early on in his coaching, when I showed early on in his coaching, when I showed early on in his coaching, when I showed up to start working with this team, up to start working with this team, up to start working with this team, Sammy Watkins got in trouble with the Sammy Watkins got in trouble with the Sammy Watkins got in trouble with the university. He did some things he university. He did some things he university. He did some things he shouldn't have done. He made a bad shouldn't have done. He made a bad shouldn't have done. He made a bad decision and they had a big game coming decision and they had a big game coming decision and they had a big game coming up against Auburn. It was the first game up against Auburn. It was the first game up against Auburn. It was the first game of the season. And everyone was saying of the season. And everyone was saying of the season. And everyone was saying that Dabau should play Sammy. It was that Dabau should play Sammy. It was that Dabau should play Sammy. It was okay. It wasn't that big of a deal what okay. It wasn't that big of a deal what okay. It wasn't that big of a deal what he did. You should play him. And Davos he did. You should play him. And Davos he did. You should play him. And Davos said, "I'm not playing him. That goes said, "I'm not playing him. That goes said, "I'm not playing him. That goes against my standards. I got to live up against my standards. I got to live up against my standards. I got to live up to our principles and our values of what to our principles and our values of what to our principles and our values of what we do and how we're going to do things we do and how we're going to do things we do and how we're going to do things here with this program. So, I'm not here with this program. So, I'm not here with this program. So, I'm not playing them. If we lose, then we lose.

playing them. If we lose, then we lose. playing them. If we lose, then we lose. If we win, we're going to win the right If we win, we're going to win the right If we win, we're going to win the right way for the right reasons. And they won way for the right reasons. And they won way for the right reasons. And they won that game. And I truly believe that they that game. And I truly believe that they that game. And I truly believe that they would not have won those national would not have won those national would not have won those national championships if Davo did not make that championships if Davo did not make that championships if Davo did not make that decision right then and there. And decision right then and there. And decision right then and there. And that's the kind of character integrity that's the kind of character integrity that's the kind of character integrity has. Here's another beautiful thing. I has. Here's another beautiful thing. I has. Here's another beautiful thing. I was in the locker room after they lost was in the locker room after they lost was in the locker room after they lost to Texas in this last college football to Texas in this last college football to Texas in this last college football playoffs. and they lost and it was a playoffs. and they lost and it was a playoffs. and they lost and it was a close game. They battled but ultimately close game. They battled but ultimately close game. They battled but ultimately Texas was just was too strong and too Texas was just was too strong and too Texas was just was too strong and too good in many ways. Davo in front of the good in many ways. Davo in front of the good in many ways. Davo in front of the entire team said, "Guys, I am so proud entire team said, "Guys, I am so proud entire team said, "Guys, I am so proud of you seniors. You took us back to the of you seniors. You took us back to the of you seniors. You took us back to the playoffs. You were the most successful playoffs. You were the most successful playoffs. You were the most successful seniors like in the in this program. seniors like in the in this program. seniors like in the in this program. Thank you for all that you've done. We Thank you for all that you've done. We Thank you for all that you've done. We will never forget you and I appreciate will never forget you and I appreciate will never forget you and I appreciate you." And you know what? This was truly you." And you know what? This was truly you." And you know what? This was truly special. Even though he lost, this was special. Even though he lost, this was special. Even though he lost, this was special being here in this battle with special being here in this battle with special being here in this battle with you. And you younger classmen who are you. And you younger classmen who are you. And you younger classmen who are coming back, get ready because we're coming back, get ready because we're coming back, get ready because we're going to be better the next year and going to be better the next year and going to be better the next year and we're going to be focused on what we're we're going to be focused on what we're we're going to be focused on what we're doing. We're going to grow and reach new doing. We're going to grow and reach new doing. We're going to grow and reach new heights. And he painted a picture for heights. And he painted a picture for heights. And he painted a picture for the future. And he pointed them towards the future. And he pointed them towards the future. And he pointed them towards a greater and better vision all in one a greater and better vision all in one a greater and better vision all in one moment. Like these guys are distraught.

moment. Like these guys are distraught. moment. Like these guys are distraught. There are tears coming down their eyes. There are tears coming down their eyes. There are tears coming down their eyes. And he consoled them. He thanked them. And he consoled them. He thanked them. And he consoled them. He thanked them. And then he encouraged them. And then he And then he encouraged them. And then he And then he encouraged them. And then he painted a great picture for the future. painted a great picture for the future. painted a great picture for the future. When they won the national championship When they won the national championship When they won the national championship for Davos's first national championship, for Davos's first national championship, for Davos's first national championship, I was in the locker room after the win I was in the locker room after the win I was in the locker room after the win as well, which was pretty cool. And as well, which was pretty cool. And as well, which was pretty cool. And Davos said, "Guys, you just won a Davos said, "Guys, you just won a Davos said, "Guys, you just won a national championship. I'm so proud of national championship. I'm so proud of national championship. I'm so proud of you, but don't let this be the best you, but don't let this be the best you, but don't let this be the best moment of your life. You go be great moment of your life. You go be great moment of your life. You go be great husbands. You go be great fathers. You husbands. You go be great fathers. You husbands. You go be great fathers. You go create a great future so that you go create a great future so that you go create a great future so that you have better moments in your future than have better moments in your future than have better moments in your future than this." Whoa, you just won a national this." Whoa, you just won a national this." Whoa, you just won a national championship. and he's speaking to who championship. and he's speaking to who championship. and he's speaking to who they are as people and their future. So, they are as people and their future. So, they are as people and their future. So, I would say those are a couple of my I would say those are a couple of my I would say those are a couple of my favorites seeing him speak and what he favorites seeing him speak and what he favorites seeing him speak and what he did and how he said it. did and how he said it. did and how he said it. >> So, what I'm hearing while you describe >> So, what I'm hearing while you describe >> So, what I'm hearing while you describe that is I'm hearing character that is I'm hearing character that is I'm hearing character >> big time integrity. >> big time integrity. >> big time integrity. Character integrity comes from the word Character integrity comes from the word Character integrity comes from the word integer which means whole and complete. integer which means whole and complete. integer which means whole and complete. So, when you have integrity, there's a So, when you have integrity, there's a So, when you have integrity, there's a wholeness and a completeness to you.

wholeness and a completeness to you. wholeness and a completeness to you. You're not defined by your outcome. You're not defined by your outcome. You're not defined by your outcome. You're not defined by your wins and You're not defined by your wins and You're not defined by your wins and losses. You are defined by your losses. You are defined by your losses. You are defined by your character. A narcissist has gaps in character. A narcissist has gaps in character. A narcissist has gaps in their character. Huge gaps. So, there's their character. Huge gaps. So, there's their character. Huge gaps. So, there's a gap between what you say and what you a gap between what you say and what you a gap between what you say and what you do. But with integrity, there's no gap. do. But with integrity, there's no gap. do. But with integrity, there's no gap. There's wholeness and completeness. There's wholeness and completeness. There's wholeness and completeness. >> What I think also what I'm hearing you >> What I think also what I'm hearing you >> What I think also what I'm hearing you in that description say is it feels like in that description say is it feels like in that description say is it feels like Dava Sweeney is building Dava Sweeney is building Dava Sweeney is building people, not just teams. people, not just teams. people, not just teams. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> In other words, you go be dads. you go >> In other words, you go be dads. you go >> In other words, you go be dads. you go be boyfriends, husbands, friends, sons, be boyfriends, husbands, friends, sons, be boyfriends, husbands, friends, sons, do you know do you know do you know >> truly the best leaders and Matt Rule was >> truly the best leaders and Matt Rule was >> truly the best leaders and Matt Rule was also at my training camp event and Matt also at my training camp event and Matt also at my training camp event and Matt Rule talked about this. The measure of a Rule talked about this. The measure of a Rule talked about this. The measure of a success is not necessarily the wins and success is not necessarily the wins and success is not necessarily the wins and losses of that season. It's the future losses of that season. It's the future losses of that season. It's the future that these young men create and the that these young men create and the that these young men create and the families they build and the companies families they build and the companies families they build and the companies that they lead and the organizations that they lead and the organizations that they lead and the organizations that they grow. He pointed that out like that they grow. He pointed that out like that they grow. He pointed that out like it's always about like the people. The it's always about like the people. The it's always about like the people. The best leaders focus on the people that best leaders focus on the people that best leaders focus on the people that then leads to greater power in the then leads to greater power in the then leads to greater power in the future, right? Or greater power in the future, right? Or greater power in the future, right? Or greater power in the present. So it really is about the present. So it really is about the present. So it really is about the people. It's not necessarily even the people. It's not necessarily even the people. It's not necessarily even the position. Like so often we focus on position. Like so often we focus on position. Like so often we focus on titles and positions. No, it's about the titles and positions. No, it's about the titles and positions. No, it's about the people. And when you invest in those people. And when you invest in those people. And when you invest in those people, those people actually become people, those people actually become people, those people actually become better players or better performers in better players or better performers in better players or better performers in your business. I wish more organizations your business. I wish more organizations your business. I wish more organizations got this right. Invest in your people got this right. Invest in your people got this right. Invest in your people and they will perform at a higher level.

and they will perform at a higher level. and they will perform at a higher level. Great leaders get this. Great leaders get this. Great leaders get this. >> One of my favorite things if a staff >> One of my favorite things if a staff >> One of my favorite things if a staff member leaves, and it doesn't happen member leaves, and it doesn't happen member leaves, and it doesn't happen every time, but once in a while it does every time, but once in a while it does every time, but once in a while it does happen. If they might say, "Hey, we did happen. If they might say, "Hey, we did happen. If they might say, "Hey, we did some amazing work together and I'm so some amazing work together and I'm so some amazing work together and I'm so grateful for the stuff that we're able grateful for the stuff that we're able grateful for the stuff that we're able to do, but I feel like I'm a different to do, but I feel like I'm a different to do, but I feel like I'm a different person. I feel like I'm a better person. person. I feel like I'm a better person. person. I feel like I'm a better person. I feel like I'm better at home. I'm I feel like I'm better at home. I'm I feel like I'm better at home. I'm better in life. I'm better in my faith." better in life. I'm better in my faith." better in life. I'm better in my faith." And that always makes me really, really And that always makes me really, really And that always makes me really, really happy. How do you get that? like if I happy. How do you get that? like if I happy. How do you get that? like if I wanted more of that for for my team in wanted more of that for for my team in wanted more of that for for my team in the future, what do I do to make sure the future, what do I do to make sure the future, what do I do to make sure we're not just like getting downloads we're not just like getting downloads we're not just like getting downloads or, you know, reaching more people or or, you know, reaching more people or or, you know, reaching more people or getting great content out there, but I'm getting great content out there, but I'm getting great content out there, but I'm actually helping people become better actually helping people become better actually helping people become better people, Christ followers, citizens. people, Christ followers, citizens. people, Christ followers, citizens. >> Yeah. Yeah. There has to be disciplehip >> Yeah. Yeah. There has to be disciplehip >> Yeah. Yeah. There has to be disciplehip and there has to be an investment in the and there has to be an investment in the and there has to be an investment in the relationship and in the person and in relationship and in the person and in relationship and in the person and in their growth. A big part of Dabo's their growth. A big part of Dabo's their growth. A big part of Dabo's philosophy is serve their heart, serve philosophy is serve their heart, serve philosophy is serve their heart, serve their talent, serve their growth. He their talent, serve their growth. He their talent, serve their growth. He actually used the carpenter, my book, as actually used the carpenter, my book, as actually used the carpenter, my book, as a framework for his leadership and his a framework for his leadership and his a framework for his leadership and his organization. It's love, serving, care.

organization. It's love, serving, care. organization. It's love, serving, care. So every day with your team, you're So every day with your team, you're So every day with your team, you're loving them and you're serving them and loving them and you're serving them and loving them and you're serving them and you're showing them that you care about you're showing them that you care about you're showing them that you care about them. It's pretty simple when you think them. It's pretty simple when you think them. It's pretty simple when you think about it. It's how Jesus led us and about it. It's how Jesus led us and about it. It's how Jesus led us and modeled leadership for us. So it's about modeled leadership for us. So it's about modeled leadership for us. So it's about the investment. How can you lead someone the investment. How can you lead someone the investment. How can you lead someone if you don't know them? How can you if you don't know them? How can you if you don't know them? How can you motivate someone if you don't know what motivate someone if you don't know what motivate someone if you don't know what motivates them? It always comes down to motivates them? It always comes down to motivates them? It always comes down to relationship. And there are four C's relationship. And there are four C's relationship. And there are four C's that we can all implement to build a that we can all implement to build a that we can all implement to build a better relationships. One, it starts better relationships. One, it starts better relationships. One, it starts with communication. with communication. with communication. And communication shares the same And communication shares the same And communication shares the same etmology as communion or community or etmology as communion or community or etmology as communion or community or commune which means to join with. So the commune which means to join with. So the commune which means to join with. So the goal of communication is to join with. goal of communication is to join with. goal of communication is to join with. So as we communicate Carrie as we So as we communicate Carrie as we So as we communicate Carrie as we communicate with our people our team communicate with our people our team communicate with our people our team members our relationships the goal is to members our relationships the goal is to members our relationships the goal is to join with to create oneness to create join with to create oneness to create join with to create oneness to create connection and then that's the next C connection and then that's the next C connection and then that's the next C which is connect as we connect with which is connect as we connect with which is connect as we connect with people on our team and take the time to people on our team and take the time to people on our team and take the time to connect in a meaningful way that builds connect in a meaningful way that builds connect in a meaningful way that builds a bond of of trust and as you build the a bond of of trust and as you build the a bond of of trust and as you build the bond of trust the relationship bond of trust the relationship bond of trust the relationship strengthens it grows and you become one strengthens it grows and you become one strengthens it grows and you become one instead of two separate people you instead of two separate people you instead of two separate people you become one team. Key for marriages, key become one team. Key for marriages, key become one team. Key for marriages, key for your kids, key for your business for your kids, key for your business for your kids, key for your business associates, your clients. Connection is associates, your clients. Connection is associates, your clients. Connection is is essential. Are we spending time is essential. Are we spending time is essential. Are we spending time together? Are we making time? Are we together? Are we making time? Are we together? Are we making time? Are we finding time to talk about meaningful finding time to talk about meaningful finding time to talk about meaningful things, not surface level things. I tell things, not surface level things. I tell things, not surface level things. I tell leaders all the time, pick one, pick one leaders all the time, pick one, pick one leaders all the time, pick one, pick one person on your team every day and person on your team every day and person on your team every day and connect with that person. Five, 10

connect with that person. Five, 10 connect with that person. Five, 10 minutes, have a meaningful conversation. minutes, have a meaningful conversation. minutes, have a meaningful conversation. Ask how they're doing, how you Ask how they're doing, how you Ask how they're doing, how you >> what they need from you, how you can >> what they need from you, how you can >> what they need from you, how you can serve them. A simple question, not not serve them. A simple question, not not serve them. A simple question, not not roads, right? Not technically speaking roads, right? Not technically speaking roads, right? Not technically speaking it, but from the heart. How can I help it, but from the heart. How can I help it, but from the heart. How can I help you? What do you need from me? How can you? What do you need from me? How can you? What do you need from me? How can how can I serve you? How can I help you how can I serve you? How can I help you how can I serve you? How can I help you do your job better? Like, I'm here to do your job better? Like, I'm here to do your job better? Like, I'm here to serve you. What does it look like? So, serve you. What does it look like? So, serve you. What does it look like? So, asking those questions is essential to asking those questions is essential to asking those questions is essential to develop the connection and making the develop the connection and making the develop the connection and making the time to connect is key. And then there's time to connect is key. And then there's time to connect is key. And then there's there's the other part of commitment. there's the other part of commitment. there's the other part of commitment. That's the that's the third C. That's the that's the third C. That's the that's the third C. commitment, like letting that person commitment, like letting that person commitment, like letting that person know that you got their back, that you know that you got their back, that you know that you got their back, that you will fight for them, that you will will fight for them, that you will will fight for them, that you will sacrifice for them. My mom was someone sacrifice for them. My mom was someone sacrifice for them. My mom was someone who sacrificed for me. Her last name is who sacrificed for me. Her last name is who sacrificed for me. Her last name is Gordon. That's her maiden name is Gordon. That's her maiden name is Gordon. That's her maiden name is Gordon. We took our mom's maiden name. Gordon. We took our mom's maiden name. Gordon. We took our mom's maiden name. My brother and I after college because My brother and I after college because My brother and I after college because our biological father left when I was a our biological father left when I was a our biological father left when I was a year old. So, he was not committed, but year old. So, he was not committed, but year old. So, he was not committed, but my mom was. So, commitment recognizes my mom was. So, commitment recognizes my mom was. So, commitment recognizes commitment. We took our mom's major. commitment. We took our mom's major. commitment. We took our mom's major. >> But you took that after college. That >> But you took that after college. That >> But you took that after college. That was something I didn't realize. That's was something I didn't realize. That's was something I didn't realize. That's amazing.

amazing. amazing. >> Yeah. We wanted to carry on, you know, >> Yeah. We wanted to carry on, you know, >> Yeah. We wanted to carry on, you know, her commitment, her legacy. She died at her commitment, her legacy. She died at her commitment, her legacy. She died at 59 years old. And so now that Gord name 59 years old. And so now that Gord name 59 years old. And so now that Gord name means even more because every day that I means even more because every day that I means even more because every day that I live, I carry on her legacy, her live, I carry on her legacy, her live, I carry on her legacy, her commitment, and I share it with others. commitment, and I share it with others. commitment, and I share it with others. So commitment is key. And So commitment is key. And So commitment is key. And >> what a beautiful story. >> what a beautiful story. >> what a beautiful story. >> Yeah. If you could commit to your, you >> Yeah. If you could commit to your, you >> Yeah. If you could commit to your, you know, your kids more, like let them know know, your kids more, like let them know know, your kids more, like let them know you're committed to them. My daughter you're committed to them. My daughter you're committed to them. My daughter remembers me bringing food before her remembers me bringing food before her remembers me bringing food before her big games in in lacrosse. I'd always big games in in lacrosse. I'd always big games in in lacrosse. I'd always bring her sandwiches and food up to the bring her sandwiches and food up to the bring her sandwiches and food up to the school and she remembers those moments. school and she remembers those moments. school and she remembers those moments. My son remembers me driving down when he My son remembers me driving down when he My son remembers me driving down when he was at IMG as a tennis player. I was at IMG as a tennis player. I was at IMG as a tennis player. I literally would drive down three and a literally would drive down three and a literally would drive down three and a half hours. I would go to the store, half hours. I would go to the store, half hours. I would go to the store, bring him some food that he needed, and bring him some food that he needed, and bring him some food that he needed, and he would go, "All right, thanks, Dad. he would go, "All right, thanks, Dad. he would go, "All right, thanks, Dad. I'll see you later." And literally, I I'll see you later." And literally, I I'll see you later." And literally, I would drive back the next morning. Like, would drive back the next morning. Like, would drive back the next morning. Like, he wouldn't even want to hang out. he wouldn't even want to hang out. he wouldn't even want to hang out. >> Oh, wow. >> Oh, wow. >> Oh, wow. >> He wouldn't even want to hang out. And I >> He wouldn't even want to hang out. And I >> He wouldn't even want to hang out. And I thought like, "God, really?" But yeah, thought like, "God, really?" But yeah, thought like, "God, really?" But yeah, >> he's in school. He's with his friends, >> he's in school. He's with his friends, >> he's in school. He's with his friends, but he remembers me doing that. And that but he remembers me doing that. And that but he remembers me doing that. And that commitment your team members are going commitment your team members are going commitment your team members are going to remember the things that you did for to remember the things that you did for to remember the things that you did for them and how you serve them. Like them and how you serve them. Like them and how you serve them. Like committing to the vision and mission is committing to the vision and mission is committing to the vision and mission is one thing but are you committed to me one thing but are you committed to me one thing but are you committed to me and I am I committed to you? That's and I am I committed to you? That's and I am I committed to you? That's primal, right? Is there true commitment primal, right? Is there true commitment primal, right? Is there true commitment of safety that I know that if something of safety that I know that if something of safety that I know that if something happens to me, you will have my back. I happens to me, you will have my back. I happens to me, you will have my back. I can honestly say this car, we spent can honestly say this car, we spent can honestly say this car, we spent enough time together. I know this. If enough time together. I know this. If enough time together. I know this. If you were in trouble and you were you were in trouble and you were you were in trouble and you were struggling and you needed help, I know struggling and you needed help, I know struggling and you needed help, I know that I would literally fly and call if that I would literally fly and call if that I would literally fly and call if you said, "Hey, can you get here?" I you said, "Hey, can you get here?" I you said, "Hey, can you get here?" I would. I would. And I know you would do would. I would. And I know you would do would. I would. And I know you would do the same for me.

the same for me. the same for me. >> I would. >> I would. >> I would. >> We're just that kind of people. But I >> We're just that kind of people. But I >> We're just that kind of people. But I know that we would for each other. If know that we would for each other. If know that we would for each other. If someone needed my help, I would be there someone needed my help, I would be there someone needed my help, I would be there in a heartbeat. Not for everybody, but I in a heartbeat. Not for everybody, but I in a heartbeat. Not for everybody, but I know for you. know for you. know for you. >> Yeah. You can't do it for everybody, >> Yeah. You can't do it for everybody, >> Yeah. You can't do it for everybody, >> right? But but there are there are >> right? But but there are there are >> right? But but there are there are people that when you have a commitment, people that when you have a commitment, people that when you have a commitment, you will do that for. So you will fight you will do that for. So you will fight you will do that for. So you will fight for those people. And that last C is is for those people. And that last C is is for those people. And that last C is is care. care. care. Do you do you care about that person? Do you do you care about that person? Do you do you care about that person? And they feel that you care about them And they feel that you care about them And they feel that you care about them and you can tell when someone truly and you can tell when someone truly and you can tell when someone truly cares about you. So, it's making the cares about you. So, it's making the cares about you. So, it's making the time to care. It's making the time to time to care. It's making the time to time to care. It's making the time to commit. Making the time to connect, commit. Making the time to connect, commit. Making the time to connect, making the time to communicate, all key making the time to communicate, all key making the time to communicate, all key parts of building that relationship. parts of building that relationship. parts of building that relationship. >> So, you've set up the tension perfectly. >> So, you've set up the tension perfectly. >> So, you've set up the tension perfectly. There are a lot of church leaders who do There are a lot of church leaders who do There are a lot of church leaders who do that. But you also hinted at this, that that. But you also hinted at this, that that. But you also hinted at this, that sometimes you got to cut someone from sometimes you got to cut someone from sometimes you got to cut someone from your team. your team. your team. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That every once in a while, Yeah. you >> That every once in a while, Yeah. you >> That every once in a while, Yeah. you were last year's player, not this year's were last year's player, not this year's were last year's player, not this year's player. I talked to so many church player. I talked to so many church player. I talked to so many church leaders, we were talking about this leaders, we were talking about this leaders, we were talking about this before we hit record, right? They're in before we hit record, right? They're in before we hit record, right? They're in a growth spurt right now. And the people a growth spurt right now. And the people a growth spurt right now. And the people who are on the team at when they were who are on the team at when they were who are on the team at when they were 200 people on a Sunday, are not quite 200 people on a Sunday, are not quite 200 people on a Sunday, are not quite the right people when they're 700 people the right people when they're 700 people the right people when they're 700 people or 1,700 people on a Sunday. And they're or 1,700 people on a Sunday. And they're or 1,700 people on a Sunday. And they're looking at these loyal, wonderful people looking at these loyal, wonderful people looking at these loyal, wonderful people that have been there. They've had so that have been there. They've had so that have been there. They've had so many foxhole experiences, but they're many foxhole experiences, but they're many foxhole experiences, but they're not the right person for the next not the right person for the next not the right person for the next season. And what happens a lot in the season. And what happens a lot in the season. And what happens a lot in the church world, pastors have good hearts, church world, pastors have good hearts, church world, pastors have good hearts, not all of them do, but a lot of them not all of them do, but a lot of them not all of them do, but a lot of them do, and they're like, "Well, I I could do, and they're like, "Well, I I could do, and they're like, "Well, I I could never fire Carrie. I mean, you just never fire Carrie. I mean, you just never fire Carrie. I mean, you just can't do it. I can't do it. I can't do can't do it. I can't do it. I can't do can't do it. I can't do it. I can't do it." So Carrie stays on the team long it." So Carrie stays on the team long it." So Carrie stays on the team long past his shelf life. Um, talk to that

past his shelf life. Um, talk to that past his shelf life. Um, talk to that church leader. What What's going on church leader. What What's going on church leader. What What's going on there? What are the dynamics? And then there? What are the dynamics? And then there? What are the dynamics? And then when you're that deep, when you're Davos when you're that deep, when you're Davos when you're that deep, when you're Davos Sweeney and you've made a commitment, Sweeney and you've made a commitment, Sweeney and you've made a commitment, but next season you're not coming back, but next season you're not coming back, but next season you're not coming back, how do you handle that? how do you handle that? how do you handle that? There are some people that you know you There are some people that you know you There are some people that you know you have to maintain a commitment to. Dabo's have to maintain a commitment to. Dabo's have to maintain a commitment to. Dabo's quarterback, Kade Clubick, was not quarterback, Kade Clubick, was not quarterback, Kade Clubick, was not playing well two years ago and everyone playing well two years ago and everyone playing well two years ago and everyone was saying Davo should find another was saying Davo should find another was saying Davo should find another quarterback. We're sitting there during quarterback. We're sitting there during quarterback. We're sitting there during training camp and we're even talking training camp and we're even talking training camp and we're even talking about that. Me, Dabau, and Kate. And about that. Me, Dabau, and Kate. And about that. Me, Dabau, and Kate. And Davo says, "I believe in you. other Davo says, "I believe in you. other Davo says, "I believe in you. other people are telling me to get another people are telling me to get another people are telling me to get another quarterback, but I believe in you. Dabo quarterback, but I believe in you. Dabo quarterback, but I believe in you. Dabo said, "Everybody's telling me." And Kate said, "Everybody's telling me." And Kate said, "Everybody's telling me." And Kate goes, "Well, not everybody, coach." And goes, "Well, not everybody, coach." And goes, "Well, not everybody, coach." And Davos said, and Dabo said, "You're Davos said, and Dabo said, "You're Davos said, and Dabo said, "You're right. Your parents have not told me to right. Your parents have not told me to right. Your parents have not told me to do that." It was really funny. It was a do that." It was really funny. It was a do that." It was really funny. It was a funny moment. But I watched Davo's funny moment. But I watched Davo's funny moment. But I watched Davo's commitment to this player. And I commitment to this player. And I commitment to this player. And I thought, "Okay, that's a commitment that thought, "Okay, that's a commitment that thought, "Okay, that's a commitment that is warranted because he believed in the is warranted because he believed in the is warranted because he believed in the potential of what that person could potential of what that person could potential of what that person could become." So, as a pastor, I would say, become." So, as a pastor, I would say, become." So, as a pastor, I would say, "What is that person's potential?"

"What is that person's potential?" "What is that person's potential?" You've got to see what their ceiling is You've got to see what their ceiling is You've got to see what their ceiling is and where their capability is. What can and where their capability is. What can and where their capability is. What can they reach? How high can they grow? And they reach? How high can they grow? And they reach? How high can they grow? And can they actually move past where they can they actually move past where they can they actually move past where they are to where hopefully they can be. If are to where hopefully they can be. If are to where hopefully they can be. If you know in your heart, okay, they're you know in your heart, okay, they're you know in your heart, okay, they're not going to be able to do this job. not going to be able to do this job. not going to be able to do this job. They just don't have the competency. They just don't have the competency. They just don't have the competency. They don't have the skills. It doesn't They don't have the skills. It doesn't They don't have the skills. It doesn't matter how much we train them. matter how much we train them. matter how much we train them. >> Or or that young quarterback, you know, >> Or or that young quarterback, you know, >> Or or that young quarterback, you know, if it's NFL, they're they're 34 now. if it's NFL, they're they're 34 now. if it's NFL, they're they're 34 now. They're not 24. They're not 24. They're not 24. >> Yeah. And and and some guys, they just >> Yeah. And and and some guys, they just >> Yeah. And and and some guys, they just don't have it. you're just they're just don't have it. you're just they're just don't have it. you're just they're just not going to be great in that moment not going to be great in that moment not going to be great in that moment under the lights in that situation or under the lights in that situation or under the lights in that situation or they have a certain skill set that they have a certain skill set that they have a certain skill set that doesn't translate to the NFL. Then then doesn't translate to the NFL. Then then doesn't translate to the NFL. Then then then again for that church person, then again for that church person, then again for that church person, you've got to be honest because here's you've got to be honest because here's you've got to be honest because here's the key. Everyone in your church knows the key. Everyone in your church knows the key. Everyone in your church knows everyone already knows they're not good everyone already knows they're not good everyone already knows they're not good enough. So if you don't do anything, enough. So if you don't do anything, enough. So if you don't do anything, what that says is you care more about what that says is you care more about what that says is you care more about that one person than everyone else on that one person than everyone else on that one person than everyone else on the team. the team. the team. >> And I know Jesus said go after the one.

>> And I know Jesus said go after the one. >> And I know Jesus said go after the one. This is different. We're not talking This is different. We're not talking This is different. We're not talking about leading them to Christ. We're about leading them to Christ. We're about leading them to Christ. We're talking about them performing. Andy talking about them performing. Andy talking about them performing. Andy Stanley said it best. He said, Stanley said it best. He said, Stanley said it best. He said, "Don't hire a ministry. Have a "Don't hire a ministry. Have a "Don't hire a ministry. Have a ministry." ministry." ministry." >> You're not supposed to hire a ministry >> You're not supposed to hire a ministry >> You're not supposed to hire a ministry if you're a church. You got to hire if you're a church. You got to hire if you're a church. You got to hire talented people who could do their jobs talented people who could do their jobs talented people who could do their jobs well so that you could live the mission well so that you could live the mission well so that you could live the mission and vision of your church, of your and vision of your church, of your and vision of your church, of your organization. And if someone is holding organization. And if someone is holding organization. And if someone is holding you back from that, you're not truly you back from that, you're not truly you back from that, you're not truly honoring what God has created you and honoring what God has created you and honoring what God has created you and your organization for. But I'm also your organization for. But I'm also your organization for. But I'm also saying, I'm not sure you have to fire saying, I'm not sure you have to fire saying, I'm not sure you have to fire that person. You can really truly find that person. You can really truly find that person. You can really truly find another role for them. And this is where another role for them. And this is where another role for them. And this is where communication comes in. It's about you communication comes in. It's about you communication comes in. It's about you communicating with that person upfront. communicating with that person upfront. communicating with that person upfront. You communicating with the team. You You communicating with the team. You You communicating with the team. You identifying the challenges, the issues, identifying the challenges, the issues, identifying the challenges, the issues, and the needs, and then talking to that and the needs, and then talking to that and the needs, and then talking to that person. Say, "Okay, here's our person. Say, "Okay, here's our person. Say, "Okay, here's our situation. here's what we need. Here's situation. here's what we need. Here's situation. here's what we need. Here's where you are. I want to keep you. We where you are. I want to keep you. We where you are. I want to keep you. We have to find the right position for you, have to find the right position for you, have to find the right position for you, but it's not in this position any but it's not in this position any but it's not in this position any longer. And you have those longer. And you have those longer. And you have those conversations. And they may be hard conversations. And they may be hard conversations. And they may be hard initially, but you've built up the initially, but you've built up the initially, but you've built up the relationship. You've built up the trust.

relationship. You've built up the trust. relationship. You've built up the trust. That person knows that you're doing this That person knows that you're doing this That person knows that you're doing this because you have to, not necessarily because you have to, not necessarily because you have to, not necessarily because you want to. And that truly will because you want to. And that truly will because you want to. And that truly will will make you a stronger leader for that will make you a stronger leader for that will make you a stronger leader for that person and for everyone else. And person and for everyone else. And person and for everyone else. And Carrie, I know this well because I've Carrie, I know this well because I've Carrie, I know this well because I've had to do this. I've had to have these had to do this. I've had to have these had to do this. I've had to have these conversations with various team members conversations with various team members conversations with various team members and I never had anyone get angry. I said and I never had anyone get angry. I said and I never had anyone get angry. I said in a way that they understood. I told in a way that they understood. I told in a way that they understood. I told them the truth and explained it and they them the truth and explained it and they them the truth and explained it and they understood, but I knew that my team understood, but I knew that my team understood, but I knew that my team members knew and were looking to see members knew and were looking to see members knew and were looking to see what I would do. what I would do. what I would do. >> Yeah, that's eventually on you if you're >> Yeah, that's eventually on you if you're >> Yeah, that's eventually on you if you're the one harboring the incompetence or the one harboring the incompetence or the one harboring the incompetence or the lack of motivation. But you're kind the lack of motivation. But you're kind the lack of motivation. But you're kind of back to tell the truth Monday, right? of back to tell the truth Monday, right? of back to tell the truth Monday, right? You just got to live and tell the truth You just got to live and tell the truth You just got to live and tell the truth Monday. Monday. Monday. >> Love and truth. Love, it's so simple. >> Love and truth. Love, it's so simple. >> Love and truth. Love, it's so simple. Love and truth. You love the person, but Love and truth. You love the person, but Love and truth. You love the person, but you got to speak the truth. And that you got to speak the truth. And that you got to speak the truth. And that will make you better. That will make the will make you better. That will make the will make you better. That will make the team better. It makes everyone better. team better. It makes everyone better. team better. It makes everyone better. >> All right, one or two more questions. >> All right, one or two more questions. >> All right, one or two more questions. Man, this time's flying. Um, lot of Man, this time's flying. Um, lot of Man, this time's flying. Um, lot of church leaders, and this is just a church leaders, and this is just a church leaders, and this is just a conversation of the moment right now, conversation of the moment right now, conversation of the moment right now, have used the metaphor of family for have used the metaphor of family for have used the metaphor of family for their church staff. We're a big family their church staff. We're a big family their church staff. We're a big family here, you know, and they've been here, you know, and they've been here, you know, and they've been together for years, and now some of the together for years, and now some of the together for years, and now some of the players aren't working out. How do you players aren't working out. How do you players aren't working out. How do you fire family? You can't fire your mother.

fire family? You can't fire your mother. fire family? You can't fire your mother. you can't fire your sister, right? Is you can't fire your sister, right? Is you can't fire your sister, right? Is that a helpful metaphor when you're in that a helpful metaphor when you're in that a helpful metaphor when you're in the corporate workplace? Or do you think the corporate workplace? Or do you think the corporate workplace? Or do you think it's a lot better just to say, "Hey, it's a lot better just to say, "Hey, it's a lot better just to say, "Hey, we're a team." Cuz team members move in we're a team." Cuz team members move in we're a team." Cuz team members move in and move out. Family members are kind of and move out. Family members are kind of and move out. Family members are kind of there forever. Any thoughts in a church there forever. Any thoughts in a church there forever. Any thoughts in a church context or a nonprofit context about context or a nonprofit context about context or a nonprofit context about family versus team is the primary family versus team is the primary family versus team is the primary metaphor. metaphor. metaphor. >> If you want a family and you want to >> If you want a family and you want to >> If you want a family and you want to call it a family, just make sure it's a call it a family, just make sure it's a call it a family, just make sure it's a functional family, not a dysfunctional functional family, not a dysfunctional functional family, not a dysfunctional family. family. family. A lot of times like I want a family. A lot of times like I want a family. A lot of times like I want a family. We're a family. No, we're a We're a family. No, we're a We're a family. No, we're a dysfunctional family. dysfunctional family. dysfunctional family. So, so one it's about recognizing family So, so one it's about recognizing family So, so one it's about recognizing family and team. I I had a great leader say we and team. I I had a great leader say we and team. I I had a great leader say we are a great family, but we need to be a are a great family, but we need to be a are a great family, but we need to be a better team. Which meant they had a lot better team. Which meant they had a lot better team. Which meant they had a lot of love and support, a lot of love and of love and support, a lot of love and of love and support, a lot of love and support, unconditional love, but they support, unconditional love, but they support, unconditional love, but they needed to challenge each other. needed to challenge each other. needed to challenge each other. Challenge each other to make each other Challenge each other to make each other Challenge each other to make each other better. This was a billion dollar better. This was a billion dollar better. This was a billion dollar company, multi-billion dollar company company, multi-billion dollar company company, multi-billion dollar company that ran like a big family, but they had that ran like a big family, but they had that ran like a big family, but they had to add accountability. So they brought to add accountability. So they brought to add accountability. So they brought me in to talk about love and me in to talk about love and me in to talk about love and accountability under positive accountability under positive accountability under positive leadership. It was really cool because leadership. It was really cool because leadership. It was really cool because this company had operated for so many this company had operated for so many this company had operated for so many years in this way of family. Now they years in this way of family. Now they years in this way of family. Now they had metrics and there was performance had metrics and there was performance had metrics and there was performance and there was accountability and they and there was accountability and they and there was accountability and they didn't know how to deal with it. So we didn't know how to deal with it. So we didn't know how to deal with it. So we we talked about it. It was so we talked about it. It was so we talked about it. It was so interesting. Very much like a church.

interesting. Very much like a church. interesting. Very much like a church. >> So you got to be both. It is about being >> So you got to be both. It is about being >> So you got to be both. It is about being a family a family a family >> and a team. Now the family is the love >> and a team. Now the family is the love >> and a team. Now the family is the love we have for each other. That's never we have for each other. That's never we have for each other. That's never going to go away. We're going to love going to go away. We're going to love going to go away. We're going to love each other and support each other. And each other and support each other. And each other and support each other. And guess what? If you don't work here guess what? If you don't work here guess what? If you don't work here anymore, we still want to love on you anymore, we still want to love on you anymore, we still want to love on you and support you. You may not just be the and support you. You may not just be the and support you. You may not just be the right person for this job, but we right person for this job, but we right person for this job, but we consider you a member of our family consider you a member of our family consider you a member of our family because we're always going to love you. because we're always going to love you. because we're always going to love you. You may not be in the team, but you'll You may not be in the team, but you'll You may not be in the team, but you'll be a member of my family. And that's be a member of my family. And that's be a member of my family. And that's different. Carrie, I walked in one day different. Carrie, I walked in one day different. Carrie, I walked in one day and and and >> my my son's girlfriend is my social >> my my son's girlfriend is my social >> my my son's girlfriend is my social media coordinator. My son works for our media coordinator. My son works for our media coordinator. My son works for our company and he was he's doing sales. And company and he was he's doing sales. And company and he was he's doing sales. And they were both not doing their jobs. So, they were both not doing their jobs. So, they were both not doing their jobs. So, I walk in and I could tell right away by I walk in and I could tell right away by I walk in and I could tell right away by the way and my New Yorkness came out and the way and my New Yorkness came out and the way and my New Yorkness came out and I came this the accountability came out. I came this the accountability came out. I came this the accountability came out. I said, "I want you guys to know I love I said, "I want you guys to know I love I said, "I want you guys to know I love you guys." I said, "I love you. You're you guys." I said, "I love you. You're you guys." I said, "I love you. You're my family, but I will fire my family my family, but I will fire my family my family, but I will fire my family right now is what I said. I will fire right now is what I said. I will fire right now is what I said. I will fire you guys." I go, "I have no problem you guys." I go, "I have no problem you guys." I go, "I have no problem firing my family is what I said." And firing my family is what I said." And firing my family is what I said." And you could tell their eyes like open. I'm you could tell their eyes like open. I'm you could tell their eyes like open. I'm like, "I will fire my family." and and like, "I will fire my family." and and like, "I will fire my family." and and they got scared very quickly because I they got scared very quickly because I they got scared very quickly because I told them like I will fi fire you from told them like I will fi fire you from told them like I will fi fire you from your job but you will always be my your job but you will always be my your job but you will always be my family and I will always love you but I family and I will always love you but I family and I will always love you but I may not have you work with me or for me may not have you work with me or for me may not have you work with me or for me anymore and I think that's the anymore and I think that's the anymore and I think that's the difference. Does that make sense? You difference. Does that make sense? You difference. Does that make sense? You know what? I've never heard that. And know what? I've never heard that. And know what? I've never heard that. And you're right. The church is one of those you're right. The church is one of those you're right. The church is one of those rare organizations where you can leave rare organizations where you can leave rare organizations where you can leave the team but still be part of the the team but still be part of the the team but still be part of the family. Because if you have a thousand family. Because if you have a thousand family. Because if you have a thousand people at your church and 10 staff, 15 people at your church and 10 staff, 15 people at your church and 10 staff, 15 staff, great. You can be part of the staff, great. You can be part of the staff, great. You can be part of the family. You're just not part of the

family. You're just not part of the family. You're just not part of the team. I think that might be my new team. I think that might be my new team. I think that might be my new answer. TM John Gordon moving forward. answer. TM John Gordon moving forward. answer. TM John Gordon moving forward. Okay, last question for you. This has Okay, last question for you. This has Okay, last question for you. This has been so helpful. This is exactly what been so helpful. This is exactly what been so helpful. This is exactly what our audience needs right now. What our audience needs right now. What our audience needs right now. What breaks your heart when you see leaders breaks your heart when you see leaders breaks your heart when you see leaders with their team and you're like, "Oh my with their team and you're like, "Oh my with their team and you're like, "Oh my goodness." When you see how they run goodness." When you see how they run goodness." When you see how they run their team, what's what's the one thing their team, what's what's the one thing their team, what's what's the one thing that's on your heart that's like, "Guys, that's on your heart that's like, "Guys, that's on your heart that's like, "Guys, just stop." What breaks my heart is leaders that are What breaks my heart is leaders that are more focused on themselves than their more focused on themselves than their more focused on themselves than their team. That they're not self-aware. team. That they're not self-aware. team. That they're not self-aware. That they will talk a great game from That they will talk a great game from That they will talk a great game from stage, but they won't live and breathe stage, but they won't live and breathe stage, but they won't live and breathe it. And so their team is actually it. And so their team is actually it. And so their team is actually operating and living in fear and they're operating and living in fear and they're operating and living in fear and they're not feeling the love of their leader. not feeling the love of their leader. not feeling the love of their leader. I for years when I was younger, my wife I for years when I was younger, my wife I for years when I was younger, my wife was like, "You're great out in the was like, "You're great out in the was like, "You're great out in the world, but yet we get the brunt of your world, but yet we get the brunt of your world, but yet we get the brunt of your negativity. This is before I became a negativity. This is before I became a negativity. This is before I became a Christian and a follower of Jesus." And Christian and a follower of Jesus." And Christian and a follower of Jesus." And it was a great moment for me to to it was a great moment for me to to it was a great moment for me to to change to know I wanted to be the same change to know I wanted to be the same change to know I wanted to be the same person with my family, even better with person with my family, even better with person with my family, even better with my family than I am out in the world.

my family than I am out in the world. my family than I am out in the world. So, I want your team as a leader to to So, I want your team as a leader to to So, I want your team as a leader to to be able to talk great about you. You be able to talk great about you. You be able to talk great about you. You don't want the congregation to think don't want the congregation to think don't want the congregation to think you're awesome and your team is scared you're awesome and your team is scared you're awesome and your team is scared of you. That's that's the scary part. of you. That's that's the scary part. of you. That's that's the scary part. >> And you do see that you get behind a lot >> And you do see that you get behind a lot >> And you do see that you get behind a lot of closed door. of closed door. of closed door. >> You see that behind a lot of closed >> You see that behind a lot of closed >> You see that behind a lot of closed doors that that there's there's no doors that that there's there's no doors that that there's there's no alignment between the who the person on alignment between the who the person on alignment between the who the person on stage is and who the person is off stage is and who the person is off stage is and who the person is off stage. So, what breaks my heart is that stage. So, what breaks my heart is that stage. So, what breaks my heart is that just and leaders in general, leaders in just and leaders in general, leaders in just and leaders in general, leaders in in business that they're not willing to in business that they're not willing to in business that they're not willing to change. they're they're full of fear and change. they're they're full of fear and change. they're they're full of fear and they're not willing to lead from a a they're not willing to lead from a a they're not willing to lead from a a position of of love and and faith. And position of of love and and faith. And position of of love and and faith. And if you do that, if you empower your if you do that, if you empower your if you do that, if you empower your team, they will perform at a higher team, they will perform at a higher team, they will perform at a higher level. If you set it up the right way, level. If you set it up the right way, level. If you set it up the right way, you don't have to lead with fear. You you don't have to lead with fear. You you don't have to lead with fear. You have to lead with lead with have to lead with lead with have to lead with lead with accountability and love and standards accountability and love and standards accountability and love and standards like we talked about. And it makes your like we talked about. And it makes your like we talked about. And it makes your leadership so much easier. Whenever I leadership so much easier. Whenever I leadership so much easier. Whenever I have an issue with a team or a team have an issue with a team or a team have an issue with a team or a team member, I always have to look at myself member, I always have to look at myself member, I always have to look at myself first. Did I not set this up the right first. Did I not set this up the right first. Did I not set this up the right way? and did I create an environment way? and did I create an environment way? and did I create an environment that didn't allow it to produce fruit? that didn't allow it to produce fruit? that didn't allow it to produce fruit? And usually if I set things up the right And usually if I set things up the right And usually if I set things up the right way, it works great. If I set things up way, it works great. If I set things up way, it works great. If I set things up the wrong way, then I have to now go the wrong way, then I have to now go the wrong way, then I have to now go back and say, "Hey, I messed up here.

back and say, "Hey, I messed up here. back and say, "Hey, I messed up here. Let's let's let's talk about this Let's let's let's talk about this Let's let's let's talk about this situation issue and get on the right situation issue and get on the right situation issue and get on the right footing going forward." So, I think footing going forward." So, I think footing going forward." So, I think that's too true. No, you're absolutely that's too true. No, you're absolutely that's too true. No, you're absolutely right. Well, there's a lot in the new right. Well, there's a lot in the new right. Well, there's a lot in the new book. It's a parable, too. If you enjoy book. It's a parable, too. If you enjoy book. It's a parable, too. If you enjoy parable books, uh really, really good. parable books, uh really, really good. parable books, uh really, really good. It's called the seven commitments of a It's called the seven commitments of a It's called the seven commitments of a great team. I think it's going to help a great team. I think it's going to help a great team. I think it's going to help a lot of leaders. John, it's available lot of leaders. John, it's available lot of leaders. John, it's available everywhere. If there's a website or everywhere. If there's a website or everywhere. If there's a website or social media um channel you want to social media um channel you want to social media um channel you want to direct people to, where would you direct direct people to, where would you direct direct people to, where would you direct people to? people to? people to? >> Sure. It's sevencommmitments.com. The >> Sure. It's sevencommmitments.com. The >> Sure. It's sevencommmitments.com. The number seven and then commitments.com. number seven and then commitments.com. number seven and then commitments.com. We got a bunch of resources. We got an We got a bunch of resources. We got an We got a bunch of resources. We got an action plan for you to implement this. action plan for you to implement this. action plan for you to implement this. >> And you mentioned the checklist, right? >> And you mentioned the checklist, right? >> And you mentioned the checklist, right? >> Yeah, the checklist. Our goal is just to >> Yeah, the checklist. Our goal is just to >> Yeah, the checklist. Our goal is just to help you build a stronger, more united, help you build a stronger, more united, help you build a stronger, more united, connected team. That's why I wrote the connected team. That's why I wrote the connected team. That's why I wrote the book. I wanted teams to be connected book. I wanted teams to be connected book. I wanted teams to be connected committed. I saw the power of that. I committed. I saw the power of that. I committed. I saw the power of that. I see so many teams that are not see so many teams that are not see so many teams that are not committed, not connected. And I know committed, not connected. And I know committed, not connected. And I know that this is a book that's going to help that this is a book that's going to help that this is a book that's going to help you and your team become stronger. And you and your team become stronger. And you and your team become stronger. And you can also do this with your family, you can also do this with your family, you can also do this with your family, too, which is really cool. If you too, which is really cool. If you too, which is really cool. If you actually apply these seven commitments actually apply these seven commitments actually apply these seven commitments to your family, you'll see great fruit to your family, you'll see great fruit to your family, you'll see great fruit as well. Well, I'll tell you, there have as well. Well, I'll tell you, there have as well. Well, I'll tell you, there have been very few leaders I've interviewed been very few leaders I've interviewed been very few leaders I've interviewed who have been in as many team situations who have been in as many team situations who have been in as many team situations as you have been over your lifetime, as you have been over your lifetime, as you have been over your lifetime, your career, and still going. And like your career, and still going. And like your career, and still going. And like what a rare vantage point to be able to what a rare vantage point to be able to what a rare vantage point to be able to offer insights and a lot of stuff offer insights and a lot of stuff offer insights and a lot of stuff clicked in my mind over these last 40 clicked in my mind over these last 40 clicked in my mind over these last 40 minutes or so. So 45. Can't thank you minutes or so. So 45. Can't thank you minutes or so. So 45. Can't thank you enough, John. Till next time. Appreciate enough, John. Till next time. Appreciate enough, John. Till next time. Appreciate you so much.

you so much. you so much. >> Appreciate you, Carrie. Thanks so much.