Staffing Trends for Churches Since the Pandemic | Todd Rhoades, Chemistry Staffing

[Music] [Music] uh i would say as a as a general uh i would say as a as a general uh i would say as a as a general as a general rule if you've read any of as a general rule if you've read any of as a general rule if you've read any of the of the secular press the of the secular press the of the secular press um writings on the great resignation um writings on the great resignation um writings on the great resignation i would say that i would say that i would say that just about everything i've read in the just about everything i've read in the just about everything i've read in the secular press secular press secular press it's it amazes me because this isn't it's it amazes me because this isn't it's it amazes me because this isn't always the case about everything that always the case about everything that always the case about everything that we've read in the secular press and the we've read in the secular press and the we've read in the secular press and the great resignation great resignation great resignation is totally the same in the church is totally the same in the church is totally the same in the church so uh it's real it's real in the secular so uh it's real it's real in the secular so uh it's real it's real in the secular i mean i i kind of make the joke i mean i mean i i kind of make the joke i mean i mean i i kind of make the joke i mean in my time i live in a little town in my time i live in a little town in my time i live in a little town called bryan ohio there's sign up on called bryan ohio there's sign up on called bryan ohio there's sign up on burger king outside that says burger king outside that says burger king outside that says interviews on the spot i mean they will interviews on the spot i mean they will interviews on the spot i mean they will they will literally if you walk in there they will literally if you walk in there they will literally if you walk in there and they will take your interview and and they will take your interview and and they will take your interview and they will put you on the on the flame they will put you on the on the flame they will put you on the on the flame griller you know in an hour because griller you know in an hour because griller you know in an hour because they're having trouble finding really they're having trouble finding really they're having trouble finding really good qualified people or you know even good qualified people or you know even good qualified people or you know even for even for burger king for even for burger king for even for burger king hey welcome to the missional marketing hey welcome to the missional marketing hey welcome to the missional marketing podcast i'm bart blair joined by jason podcast i'm bart blair joined by jason podcast i'm bart blair joined by jason hamrock we're glad that you have tuned hamrock we're glad that you have tuned hamrock we're glad that you have tuned into the show today our goal is to help into the show today our goal is to help into the show today our goal is to help your church grow by leveraging digital your church grow by leveraging digital your church grow by leveraging digital marketing and effective communications marketing and effective communications marketing and effective communications and today we've got an interview that we and today we've got an interview that we and today we've got an interview that we want to share with you a little bit want to share with you a little bit want to share with you a little bit different than our normal podcast we're different than our normal podcast we're different than our normal podcast we're not really on the topic of church not really on the topic of church not really on the topic of church communications but something that i communications but something that i communications but something that i think you'll find very very intriguing think you'll find very very intriguing think you'll find very very intriguing jason you want to introduce our guest i jason you want to introduce our guest i jason you want to introduce our guest i do our our guest is todd rhodes todd is do our our guest is todd rhodes todd is do our our guest is todd rhodes todd is the co-founder of chemistry staffing and the co-founder of chemistry staffing and the co-founder of chemistry staffing and we're talking about church staffing and we're talking about church staffing and we're talking about church staffing and it can be a little difficult these days it can be a little difficult these days it can be a little difficult these days uh with the pandemic and all the changes

uh with the pandemic and all the changes uh with the pandemic and all the changes and adjustments that people are making and adjustments that people are making and adjustments that people are making and the demands they're making todd and the demands they're making todd and the demands they're making todd speaks into speaks into speaks into some of the best strategies that you some of the best strategies that you some of the best strategies that you want to take when you're looking to hire want to take when you're looking to hire want to take when you're looking to hire or when somebody comes to you and says or when somebody comes to you and says or when somebody comes to you and says they're leaving your staff what do you they're leaving your staff what do you they're leaving your staff what do you do with that and so uh he really goes in do with that and so uh he really goes in do with that and so uh he really goes in deep and i really like his strategies deep and i really like his strategies deep and i really like his strategies and i think you're going to learn a lot and i think you're going to learn a lot and i think you're going to learn a lot from it from it from it todd is a super smart guy i really todd is a super smart guy i really todd is a super smart guy i really enjoyed our opportunity uh to hang out enjoyed our opportunity uh to hang out enjoyed our opportunity uh to hang out with him today and uh hey if your church with him today and uh hey if your church with him today and uh hey if your church happens to be uh looking for any new happens to be uh looking for any new happens to be uh looking for any new staff reach out to these guys and find staff reach out to these guys and find staff reach out to these guys and find out what they do i think that todd gives out what they do i think that todd gives out what they do i think that todd gives us a pretty good explanation of the way us a pretty good explanation of the way us a pretty good explanation of the way that their processes work but until that their processes work but until that their processes work but until you've you've you've gotten into the middle of it i have i've gotten into the middle of it i have i've gotten into the middle of it i have i've actually used chemistry staffing with actually used chemistry staffing with actually used chemistry staffing with another ministry that i work with to do another ministry that i work with to do another ministry that i work with to do some staffing and they're great guys some staffing and they're great guys some staffing and they're great guys really easy to work with and it's been a really easy to work with and it's been a really easy to work with and it's been a real pleasure and this is not a real pleasure and this is not a real pleasure and this is not a sponsored podcast just so you know all sponsored podcast just so you know all sponsored podcast just so you know all of a sudden it sounds like we're doing a of a sudden it sounds like we're doing a of a sudden it sounds like we're doing a commercial for chemistry staffing we're commercial for chemistry staffing we're commercial for chemistry staffing we're not doing a commercial we are not being not doing a commercial we are not being not doing a commercial we are not being paid to do this promo we just uh we just paid to do this promo we just uh we just paid to do this promo we just uh we just like the guys over there so um hey we like the guys over there so um hey we like the guys over there so um hey we like you too and we really appreciate like you too and we really appreciate like you too and we really appreciate you tuning in to the show um if you find you tuning in to the show um if you find you tuning in to the show um if you find the content that we're creating for you the content that we're creating for you the content that we're creating for you here helpful we would appreciate a here helpful we would appreciate a here helpful we would appreciate a rating and a review wherever you're rating and a review wherever you're rating and a review wherever you're consuming this content if you're consuming this content if you're consuming this content if you're watching on youtube or listening on one watching on youtube or listening on one watching on youtube or listening on one of your favorite podcast channels um hey of your favorite podcast channels um hey of your favorite podcast channels um hey just leave a rating leave a review and just leave a rating leave a review and just leave a rating leave a review and that will help more people find this that will help more people find this that will help more people find this podcast so i'm gonna wrap things up podcast so i'm gonna wrap things up podcast so i'm gonna wrap things up there without any further ado here's our there without any further ado here's our there without any further ado here's our interview with todd rhodes from interview with todd rhodes from interview with todd rhodes from chemistry staffing

chemistry staffing chemistry staffing todd rhodes from chemistry staffing todd rhodes from chemistry staffing todd rhodes from chemistry staffing thanks so much for joining us on the thanks so much for joining us on the thanks so much for joining us on the show today show today show today thank you jason thanks bart thank you jason thanks bart thank you jason thanks bart hey so uh as we often do with our guests hey so uh as we often do with our guests hey so uh as we often do with our guests uh we'd love to hear your story so uh uh we'd love to hear your story so uh uh we'd love to hear your story so uh todd if you'll just take a few minutes todd if you'll just take a few minutes todd if you'll just take a few minutes just kind of just kind of just kind of give us the rundown of your ministry give us the rundown of your ministry give us the rundown of your ministry background uh how you end up in ministry background uh how you end up in ministry background uh how you end up in ministry and ultimately how you ended up at and ultimately how you ended up at and ultimately how you ended up at chemistry staffing chemistry staffing chemistry staffing sure well sure well sure well short story long you want that version short story long you want that version short story long you want that version yes we want we want all the good jews yes we want we want all the good jews yes we want we want all the good jews all the good stuff all the good stuff all the good stuff oh i'll try and compact it down not that oh i'll try and compact it down not that oh i'll try and compact it down not that it's all that great of a story to tell it's all that great of a story to tell it's all that great of a story to tell but uh so i'm an old i'm an old worship but uh so i'm an old i'm an old worship but uh so i'm an old i'm an old worship guy right so um i started uh guy right so um i started uh guy right so um i started uh graduated college with a degree in graduated college with a degree in graduated college with a degree in in broadcasting a minor in music and was in broadcasting a minor in music and was in broadcasting a minor in music and was always passionate about the church always passionate about the church always passionate about the church passionate about worship and music and passionate about worship and music and passionate about worship and music and started started started right out of college as we used to call right out of college as we used to call right out of college as we used to call ourselves ministers of music so that's ourselves ministers of music so that's ourselves ministers of music so that's really dating me really dating me really dating me at this point but uh so i was a worship at this point but uh so i was a worship at this point but uh so i was a worship pastor or a minister of music for about pastor or a minister of music for about pastor or a minister of music for about uh 15 years uh 15 years uh 15 years uh and at that same time i was also uh and at that same time i was also uh and at that same time i was also kind of a computer geek you know again kind of a computer geek you know again kind of a computer geek you know again i'm dating myself back when you guys i'm dating myself back when you guys i'm dating myself back when you guys might not remember but back when al gore might not remember but back when al gore might not remember but back when al gore invented the interwebs invented the interwebs invented the interwebs i was i was um you know kind of piddling i was i was um you know kind of piddling i was i was um you know kind of piddling around with that and really liked it you around with that and really liked it you around with that and really liked it you know i had the compuserve and the aol know i had the compuserve and the aol know i had the compuserve and the aol and the prodigy and and all of that and the prodigy and and all of that and the prodigy and and all of that boy i'm really dating myself but really boy i'm really dating myself but really boy i'm really dating myself but really really kind of loved both both the really kind of loved both both the really kind of loved both both the church and worship um but then also church and worship um but then also church and worship um but then also kind of like the technology end of

kind of like the technology end of kind of like the technology end of things and i started a website back boy things and i started a website back boy things and i started a website back boy it was like the late 90s uh back when it was like the late 90s uh back when it was like the late 90s uh back when the internet was just getting started it the internet was just getting started it the internet was just getting started it was called was called was called ministerofmusic.com uh and it had all ministerofmusic.com uh and it had all ministerofmusic.com uh and it had all kinds of resources for worship pastors kinds of resources for worship pastors kinds of resources for worship pastors only because i kind of loved only because i kind of loved only because i kind of loved figuring out how to build stuff figuring out how to build stuff figuring out how to build stuff and um there were there were really and um there were there were really and um there were there were really absolutely it's hard to believe but absolutely it's hard to believe but absolutely it's hard to believe but there were no worship resources for there were no worship resources for there were no worship resources for anybody out there no way to connect with anybody out there no way to connect with anybody out there no way to connect with other worship pastors i'm gonna i'm other worship pastors i'm gonna i'm other worship pastors i'm gonna i'm gonna pause you right there i'm gonna gonna pause you right there i'm gonna gonna pause you right there i'm gonna pause right there todd because i don't pause right there todd because i don't pause right there todd because i don't know if you remember when i when i know if you remember when i when i know if you remember when i when i phoned you up about a year or so ago phoned you up about a year or so ago phoned you up about a year or so ago when you know i was connecting with when you know i was connecting with when you know i was connecting with chemistry chemistry chemistry i was like i know this guy and i'm i was like i know this guy and i'm i was like i know this guy and i'm trying to figure out how i know who this trying to figure out how i know who this trying to figure out how i know who this todd rhodes guy is well in the late 90s todd rhodes guy is well in the late 90s todd rhodes guy is well in the late 90s early 2000s i was a worship pastor at a early 2000s i was a worship pastor at a early 2000s i was a worship pastor at a church and somewhere along the line i church and somewhere along the line i church and somewhere along the line i found todd's resources and may have even found todd's resources and may have even found todd's resources and may have even been subscribed to a newsletter or been subscribed to a newsletter or been subscribed to a newsletter or something you did i'm not really sure something you did i'm not really sure something you did i'm not really sure but that was like hey todd rhodes is a but that was like hey todd rhodes is a but that was like hey todd rhodes is a worship leader or a music minister and worship leader or a music minister and worship leader or a music minister and that was that was kind of that that was that was kind of that that was that was kind of that connection connection connection two decades two decades ago oh that's two decades two decades ago oh that's two decades two decades ago oh that's that's crazy that's crazy um that's crazy that's crazy um that's crazy that's crazy um but anyway but anyway but anyway i'm making this story way too long but i'm making this story way too long but i'm making this story way too long but one of the one of the pages i had on one of the one of the pages i had on one of the one of the pages i had on that on the resources page for worship that on the resources page for worship that on the resources page for worship pastors was a church jobs page um where pastors was a church jobs page um where pastors was a church jobs page um where i would you know just i said hey if i would you know just i said hey if i would you know just i said hey if you've got if your church is looking for you've got if your church is looking for you've got if your church is looking for a worship pastor job or you're looking a worship pastor job or you're looking a worship pastor job or you're looking for a new church just let me know and i for a new church just let me know and i for a new church just let me know and i would literally cut and paste it into would literally cut and paste it into would literally cut and paste it into this into this text web page this into this text web page this into this text web page and after about a month of of having and after about a month of of having and after about a month of of having that it was like the most popular page

that it was like the most popular page that it was like the most popular page on on on the whole website so i thought well the whole website so i thought well the whole website so i thought well that's interesting there seems to be a that's interesting there seems to be a that's interesting there seems to be a demand for this even though it's early demand for this even though it's early demand for this even though it's early um i wonder if it works for senior um i wonder if it works for senior um i wonder if it works for senior pastors churches trying to find senior pastors churches trying to find senior pastors churches trying to find senior pastors and youth pastors and all that pastors and youth pastors and all that pastors and youth pastors and all that so i started a website called so i started a website called so i started a website called churchstaffing.com churchstaffing.com churchstaffing.com which is still up and going i i built which is still up and going i i built which is still up and going i i built that website that website that website and managed that website for about six and managed that website for about six and managed that website for about six years years years ended up selling it and it's still you ended up selling it and it's still you ended up selling it and it's still you know with the same owners and they're know with the same owners and they're know with the same owners and they're doing great work and connecting doing great work and connecting doing great work and connecting a lot of churches and church leaders a lot of churches and church leaders a lot of churches and church leaders in their staffing needs in their staffing needs in their staffing needs still today so that was kind of how i still today so that was kind of how i still today so that was kind of how i got into the staffing space got into the staffing space got into the staffing space after i sold church staffing i went and after i sold church staffing i went and after i sold church staffing i went and worked with leadership network uh out of worked with leadership network uh out of worked with leadership network uh out of dallas uh we're working with a lot of a dallas uh we're working with a lot of a dallas uh we're working with a lot of a lot of larger churches around some lot of larger churches around some lot of larger churches around some innovative innovative ministry things innovative innovative ministry things innovative innovative ministry things like multi-site and all different kinds like multi-site and all different kinds like multi-site and all different kinds of ministry things i did that for about of ministry things i did that for about of ministry things i did that for about a dozen years a dozen years a dozen years but i still always had this itch of how but i still always had this itch of how but i still always had this itch of how how can we make staffing how can we make staffing how can we make staffing better in local churches better in local churches better in local churches because i've been on both sides i've because i've been on both sides i've because i've been on both sides i've been on the staff side been on the staff side been on the staff side where i was looking for for roles and where i was looking for for roles and where i was looking for for roles and transitioning in and out of roles i've transitioning in and out of roles i've transitioning in and out of roles i've also been on the on the church board also been on the on the church board also been on the on the church board side on the elder side where you have to side on the elder side where you have to side on the elder side where you have to hire and sometimes let people go hire and sometimes let people go hire and sometimes let people go and i i just know knew and i i just know knew and i i just know knew that the transition time for both that the transition time for both that the transition time for both churches and staff churches and staff churches and staff is just an incredible is just an incredible is just an incredible and incredibly stressful time so and incredibly stressful time so and incredibly stressful time so um i had a good friend matt steen that

um i had a good friend matt steen that um i had a good friend matt steen that uh we started talking about you know uh we started talking about you know uh we started talking about you know there there needs to be there there needs to be there there needs to be maybe some better solutions particularly maybe some better solutions particularly maybe some better solutions particularly for for for small to medium-sized churches that they small to medium-sized churches that they small to medium-sized churches that they can get some outside expertise and help can get some outside expertise and help can get some outside expertise and help in the in the hiring process uh you know in the in the hiring process uh you know in the in the hiring process uh you know there's some some great staffing firms there's some some great staffing firms there's some some great staffing firms out there that that just because of out there that that just because of out there that that just because of their pricing structure and their their their pricing structure and their their their pricing structure and their their model uh it's very expensive for some model uh it's very expensive for some model uh it's very expensive for some small to medium-sized churches they do small to medium-sized churches they do small to medium-sized churches they do really well for large churches so we've really well for large churches so we've really well for large churches so we've decided um let's let's see if there's a decided um let's let's see if there's a decided um let's let's see if there's a way that we can help churches find come way that we can help churches find come way that we can help churches find come alongside churches help them find what alongside churches help them find what alongside churches help them find what we call healthy long-term fits which are we call healthy long-term fits which are we call healthy long-term fits which are we can talk about that a little bit but we can talk about that a little bit but we can talk about that a little bit but five years or more five years or more five years or more is what we think the sweet spot is is what we think the sweet spot is is what we think the sweet spot is which would dramatically increase from which would dramatically increase from which would dramatically increase from what the average is right now so that's what the average is right now so that's what the average is right now so that's kind of how we decide whether or not kind of how we decide whether or not kind of how we decide whether or not we're able to move move the the we're able to move move the the we're able to move move the the measurement a little bit but if we can measurement a little bit but if we can measurement a little bit but if we can if we can help leverage technology and if we can help leverage technology and if we can help leverage technology and come alongside churches to help them to come alongside churches to help them to come alongside churches to help them to be able to find these healthy long-term be able to find these healthy long-term be able to find these healthy long-term fits fits fits and do it at a price that small and and do it at a price that small and and do it at a price that small and medium-sized churches can afford um then medium-sized churches can afford um then medium-sized churches can afford um then we thought we'd give that a go and and we thought we'd give that a go and and we thought we'd give that a go and and see if that's something see if that's something see if that's something that that we could uh kind of help that that we could uh kind of help that that we could uh kind of help churches with and we've been doing this churches with and we've been doing this churches with and we've been doing this is our fifth year is our fifth year is our fifth year so and right now i think we're doing so and right now i think we're doing so and right now i think we're doing almost 70 searches right now um yeah almost 70 searches right now um yeah almost 70 searches right now um yeah we're in the process of starting so uh we're in the process of starting so uh we're in the process of starting so uh god's really blessed it and and we we god's really blessed it and and we we god's really blessed it and and we we just we love we love jesus we love the just we love we love jesus we love the just we love we love jesus we love the church we're a little matt and i are church we're a little matt and i are church we're a little matt and i are both and our team we're all kind of kind

both and our team we're all kind of kind both and our team we're all kind of kind of geeks of geeks of geeks geek out about stuff like that and how geek out about stuff like that and how geek out about stuff like that and how we can merge the technology and and kind we can merge the technology and and kind we can merge the technology and and kind of uh of uh of uh help help churches um help help churches um help help churches um find those good healthy long-term fits find those good healthy long-term fits find those good healthy long-term fits how do you practically how do you do how do you practically how do you do how do you practically how do you do that that that when a church wants to to hire you when a church wants to to hire you when a church wants to to hire you what are they hiring what are they hiring what are they hiring sure well um sure well um sure well um well well well let me let me first say that we think let me let me first say that we think let me let me first say that we think this is kind of goes into our philosophy this is kind of goes into our philosophy this is kind of goes into our philosophy of like i said healthy long-term fits of like i said healthy long-term fits of like i said healthy long-term fits trying to find somebody that can be on trying to find somebody that can be on trying to find somebody that can be on your team at your church for five years your team at your church for five years your team at your church for five years or more okay we think there's five or more okay we think there's five or more okay we think there's five things things things that uh both the church and the that uh both the church and the that uh both the church and the candidate need to agree on okay five candidate need to agree on okay five candidate need to agree on okay five different areas and if you can hit all different areas and if you can hit all different areas and if you can hit all these five areas we think you've got a these five areas we think you've got a these five areas we think you've got a really good shot at being able to have a really good shot at being able to have a really good shot at being able to have a healthy long-term healthy long-term healthy long-term person that will be at your church for person that will be at your church for person that will be at your church for five years or more um four of these we five years or more um four of these we five years or more um four of these we assess for the fifth one is on the assess for the fifth one is on the assess for the fifth one is on the church and the candidate to kind of church and the candidate to kind of church and the candidate to kind of figure out on their own but i'll go over figure out on their own but i'll go over figure out on their own but i'll go over those really really briefly in order for those really really briefly in order for those really really briefly in order for you for your church you for your church you for your church uh to find a healthy long-term fit or if uh to find a healthy long-term fit or if uh to find a healthy long-term fit or if you're if you're a church staff person you're if you're a church staff person you're if you're a church staff person and you're looking um to find a new and you're looking um to find a new and you're looking um to find a new church job you need to have these five church job you need to have these five church job you need to have these five things in common with your new church in things in common with your new church in things in common with your new church in order for you to be a healthy long-term order for you to be a healthy long-term order for you to be a healthy long-term fan first is is theology and we assess fan first is is theology and we assess fan first is is theology and we assess for all of these on the very front end for all of these on the very front end for all of these on the very front end of all of our searches with both the of all of our searches with both the of all of our searches with both the churches and the candidates and i can churches and the candidates and i can churches and the candidates and i can tell you how we do that in a second but tell you how we do that in a second but tell you how we do that in a second but theology we assess for theology we ask theology we assess for theology we ask theology we assess for theology we ask 25 questions on theology uh 25 questions on theology uh 25 questions on theology uh and what we're really trying to do with and what we're really trying to do with and what we're really trying to do with each of these areas is to try and find

each of these areas is to try and find each of these areas is to try and find red flags yellow flags and green flags red flags yellow flags and green flags red flags yellow flags and green flags so like for theology a red flag would be so like for theology a red flag would be so like for theology a red flag would be red flag would be something that you red flag would be something that you red flag would be something that you know if there's a red flag it's probably know if there's a red flag it's probably know if there's a red flag it's probably not going to work not going to work not going to work like if if a church tells us that they like if if a church tells us that they like if if a church tells us that they believe in the virgin birth but a believe in the virgin birth but a believe in the virgin birth but a candidate tells tells us that they don't candidate tells tells us that they don't candidate tells tells us that they don't believe in the virgin birth believe in the virgin birth believe in the virgin birth that's a non-starter it's just it's it's that's a non-starter it's just it's it's that's a non-starter it's just it's it's it's not going to work it's not going to it's not going to work it's not going to it's not going to work it's not going to be a healthy long-term fit be a healthy long-term fit be a healthy long-term fit green flags are easy to find you can you green flags are easy to find you can you green flags are easy to find you can you know you're in agreement the yellow know you're in agreement the yellow know you're in agreement the yellow flags are a lot of times even on flags are a lot of times even on flags are a lot of times even on theology and culture issues theology and culture issues theology and culture issues the yellow flags are sometimes those the yellow flags are sometimes those the yellow flags are sometimes those things that aren't as immediately things that aren't as immediately things that aren't as immediately identifiable identifiable identifiable uh and uh and uh and by by by the process that we use gets kind of the process that we use gets kind of the process that we use gets kind of asked the right questions to get those asked the right questions to get those asked the right questions to get those issues on the table issues on the table issues on the table because yellow flags can go either way because yellow flags can go either way because yellow flags can go either way they can be like oh that's not a big they can be like oh that's not a big they can be like oh that's not a big deal you're going to fit really well deal you're going to fit really well deal you're going to fit really well here or it could be here or it could be here or it could be no that's that's a big enough issue that no that's that's a big enough issue that no that's that's a big enough issue that we need to really discuss it's the we need to really discuss it's the we need to really discuss it's the yellow flag issues honestly yellow flag issues honestly yellow flag issues honestly guys that uh 12 or 18 months in is going guys that uh 12 or 18 months in is going guys that uh 12 or 18 months in is going to have everybody scratching their heads to have everybody scratching their heads to have everybody scratching their heads saying why in the world did we do this saying why in the world did we do this saying why in the world did we do this why did i move my family four states why did i move my family four states why did i move my family four states away to come here to just now find this away to come here to just now find this away to come here to just now find this kind of thing out all right so red flags kind of thing out all right so red flags kind of thing out all right so red flags yellow flags green flags first is yellow flags green flags first is yellow flags green flags first is theology theology theology the second is uh church culture and dna the second is uh church culture and dna the second is uh church culture and dna we asked 25 questions on church culture we asked 25 questions on church culture we asked 25 questions on church culture and dna if there's not a good fit um uh and dna if there's not a good fit um uh and dna if there's not a good fit um uh in in culture wise then it's in in culture wise then it's in in culture wise then it's the chances of there being a healthy the chances of there being a healthy the chances of there being a healthy long-term fit go down the drain really

long-term fit go down the drain really long-term fit go down the drain really quickly quickly quickly so theology church culture dna the third so theology church culture dna the third so theology church culture dna the third one is personality there has to be a one is personality there has to be a one is personality there has to be a personality fit between you and the personality fit between you and the personality fit between you and the church and the team church and the team church and the team and then and then and then fourth is skills and abilities so you fourth is skills and abilities so you fourth is skills and abilities so you need to be able to have need to be able to have need to be able to have uh if you're hiring someone you need to uh if you're hiring someone you need to uh if you're hiring someone you need to be able to they need to be able to have be able to they need to be able to have be able to they need to be able to have the skill set and the experience to do the skill set and the experience to do the skill set and the experience to do the job that you want them to do okay the job that you want them to do okay the job that you want them to do okay so we assess uh on those four things so we assess uh on those four things so we assess uh on those four things uh and the way that we do it is we ask uh and the way that we do it is we ask uh and the way that we do it is we ask every candidate that applies for any of every candidate that applies for any of every candidate that applies for any of our jobs to take these these four our jobs to take these these four our jobs to take these these four assessments assessments assessments uh and then what we do is we also ask uh and then what we do is we also ask uh and then what we do is we also ask the church when we do our onboarding the church when we do our onboarding the church when we do our onboarding with the church with the church with the church take these same assessments and we put take these same assessments and we put take these same assessments and we put them together almost like any harmony them together almost like any harmony them together almost like any harmony kind of a thing if i can say that kind of a thing if i can say that kind of a thing if i can say that without getting sued without getting sued without getting sued by eharmony but put those together and by eharmony but put those together and by eharmony but put those together and that helps us to identify the red flags that helps us to identify the red flags that helps us to identify the red flags yellow flags green flags and helps us to yellow flags green flags and helps us to yellow flags green flags and helps us to know uh with our interview teams um who know uh with our interview teams um who know uh with our interview teams um who we need to start talking to and then we need to start talking to and then we need to start talking to and then we'll start the process we'll go through we'll start the process we'll go through we'll start the process we'll go through up to three uh interviews with uh each up to three uh interviews with uh each up to three uh interviews with uh each candidate to candidate to candidate to for a specific role at a specific church for a specific role at a specific church for a specific role at a specific church and if they and if they and if they pass those three pass those three pass those three you know and again with the assessments you know and again with the assessments you know and again with the assessments and the three interviews and all of our and the three interviews and all of our and the three interviews and all of our interviewers are all ministry interviewers are all ministry interviewers are all ministry um either full-time or retired ministry um either full-time or retired ministry um either full-time or retired ministry folks so it's it's almost like talking folks so it's it's almost like talking folks so it's it's almost like talking shop rather than like a sit-down formal shop rather than like a sit-down formal shop rather than like a sit-down formal interview and it's all done over zoom interview and it's all done over zoom interview and it's all done over zoom yeah but anyway just to wrap that up yeah but anyway just to wrap that up yeah but anyway just to wrap that up those are the four things the fifth those are the four things the fifth those are the four things the fifth thing is chemistry and that's what we thing is chemistry and that's what we thing is chemistry and that's what we tell the church and the candidate hey

tell the church and the candidate hey tell the church and the candidate hey this is boots on the ground this is this is boots on the ground this is this is boots on the ground this is something that you guys have to figure something that you guys have to figure something that you guys have to figure out for yourselves this is um out for yourselves this is um out for yourselves this is um do i do i like the church does my spouse do i do i like the church does my spouse do i do i like the church does my spouse like the church like the church like the church would we go there if we weren't on staff would we go there if we weren't on staff would we go there if we weren't on staff things like that things like that things like that do we fit the team culture are these do we fit the team culture are these do we fit the team culture are these people that i want to not only do people that i want to not only do people that i want to not only do ministry with and work with but do i ministry with and work with but do i ministry with and work with but do i want to do life with these people want to do life with these people want to do life with these people you know if if you're if you're a senior you know if if you're if you're a senior you know if if you're if you're a senior pastor and you're looking to hire pastor and you're looking to hire pastor and you're looking to hire somebody it's it's you know is this somebody it's it's you know is this somebody it's it's you know is this somebody that i not only want to have on somebody that i not only want to have on somebody that i not only want to have on my team and work with at the church but my team and work with at the church but my team and work with at the church but would i want to have them and their would i want to have them and their would i want to have them and their family over to my house on tuesday night family over to my house on tuesday night family over to my house on tuesday night for a barbecue those are the kind of for a barbecue those are the kind of for a barbecue those are the kind of chemistry things that we can do a really chemistry things that we can do a really chemistry things that we can do a really good job we think of assessing for the good job we think of assessing for the good job we think of assessing for the first four things the fifth thing is first four things the fifth thing is first four things the fifth thing is really what you learn when you meet each really what you learn when you meet each really what you learn when you meet each other you sit across the table you sit other you sit across the table you sit other you sit across the table you sit across the dinner table from each other across the dinner table from each other across the dinner table from each other and just figure out okay these these and just figure out okay these these and just figure out okay these these four things seem to match up four things seem to match up four things seem to match up do we have do we have the necessary do we have do we have the necessary do we have do we have the necessary chemistry and relational chemistry and relational chemistry and relational potential to make this really be a potential to make this really be a potential to make this really be a healthy long-term fat well i really like healthy long-term fat well i really like healthy long-term fat well i really like the that approach with with those five the that approach with with those five the that approach with with those five areas and um areas and um areas and um it seems like um this is a question for it seems like um this is a question for it seems like um this is a question for you it seems like you it seems like you it seems like churches will hire within for specific churches will hire within for specific churches will hire within for specific jobs jobs jobs or they'll be looking for or they'll be looking for or they'll be looking for a professional you know like a teaching a professional you know like a teaching a professional you know like a teaching pastor or somebody who plays music pastor or somebody who plays music pastor or somebody who plays music really well or something like that um really well or something like that um really well or something like that um it might be something you're outsourcing it might be something you're outsourcing it might be something you're outsourcing to to bring in somebody from a distance to to bring in somebody from a distance to to bring in somebody from a distance but i think regardless is this your

but i think regardless is this your but i think regardless is this your experience regardless if you're hiring experience regardless if you're hiring experience regardless if you're hiring within within your own congregation or within within your own congregation or within within your own congregation or looking out you probably won't apply looking out you probably won't apply looking out you probably won't apply those those those those same principles to that candidate those same principles to that candidate those same principles to that candidate right that makes sense yeah and actually right that makes sense yeah and actually right that makes sense yeah and actually we we offer a service for churches that we we offer a service for churches that we we offer a service for churches that are doing their so churches can hire us are doing their so churches can hire us are doing their so churches can hire us to do run that whole process do the to do run that whole process do the to do run that whole process do the whole marketing thing and you know of whole marketing thing and you know of whole marketing thing and you know of all their positions find all the all their positions find all the all their positions find all the candidates all that kind of thing candidates all that kind of thing candidates all that kind of thing also if churches are doing it on their also if churches are doing it on their also if churches are doing it on their own own own uh the biggest fear churches have uh the biggest fear churches have uh the biggest fear churches have whether they're hiring an internal whether they're hiring an internal whether they're hiring an internal candidate or an external candidate when candidate or an external candidate when candidate or an external candidate when they're doing it on their own is we they're doing it on their own is we they're doing it on their own is we don't want to goof this thing up yeah don't want to goof this thing up yeah don't want to goof this thing up yeah right we don't want to make a bad hire right we don't want to make a bad hire right we don't want to make a bad hire so one of the things we offer is it's so one of the things we offer is it's so one of the things we offer is it's called a final fit assessment which is called a final fit assessment which is called a final fit assessment which is essentially everything we do with the essentially everything we do with the essentially everything we do with the assessments and the interview process assessments and the interview process assessments and the interview process but it comes at the tail end of you know but it comes at the tail end of you know but it comes at the tail end of you know so if you're doing a search for a new so if you're doing a search for a new so if you're doing a search for a new youth pastor and you find your final two youth pastor and you find your final two youth pastor and you find your final two guys and you just want an outside set of guys and you just want an outside set of guys and you just want an outside set of eyes and ears on it eyes and ears on it eyes and ears on it you can hire us to come in and you know you can hire us to come in and you know you can hire us to come in and you know it takes about eight to ten days it takes about eight to ten days it takes about eight to ten days but we actually do the we run through but we actually do the we run through but we actually do the we run through the assessment with the church find out the assessment with the church find out the assessment with the church find out exactly what you're looking for find out exactly what you're looking for find out exactly what you're looking for find out all the theology and the culture and all all the theology and the culture and all all the theology and the culture and all that kind of stuff then we take those that kind of stuff then we take those that kind of stuff then we take those two candidates and we run them through two candidates and we run them through two candidates and we run them through that assessment process run them through that assessment process run them through that assessment process run them through our interview process and then come back our interview process and then come back our interview process and then come back and give the church kind of a final and give the church kind of a final and give the church kind of a final report and say report and say report and say you know here's here's what our you know here's here's what our you know here's here's what our assessment is you know as as kind of assessment is you know as as kind of assessment is you know as as kind of outside professionals that don't have a outside professionals that don't have a outside professionals that don't have a dog in your fight dog in your fight dog in your fight and maybe here and this is i think and maybe here and this is i think and maybe here and this is i think what's the most valuable on this for the what's the most valuable on this for the what's the most valuable on this for the church in in this situation is here are church in in this situation is here are church in in this situation is here are some of the yellows that we maybe some of the yellows that we maybe some of the yellows that we maybe discovered that you didn't see

discovered that you didn't see discovered that you didn't see and before you know you really like and before you know you really like and before you know you really like these this person or these two people these this person or these two people these this person or these two people before you make an offer to them here before you make an offer to them here before you make an offer to them here are a couple of conversations that it are a couple of conversations that it are a couple of conversations that it would probably be wise for you to have would probably be wise for you to have would probably be wise for you to have and just make sure that you know 12 18 and just make sure that you know 12 18 and just make sure that you know 12 18 months down the road these yellows that months down the road these yellows that months down the road these yellows that we've kind of identified don't become a we've kind of identified don't become a we've kind of identified don't become a deal breaker yeah yeah deal breaker yeah yeah deal breaker yeah yeah so and on the internal thing we we so and on the internal thing we we so and on the internal thing we we we encourage i mean this seems kind of we encourage i mean this seems kind of we encourage i mean this seems kind of backwards for a staffing company but we backwards for a staffing company but we backwards for a staffing company but we love internal hires internal hires have love internal hires internal hires have love internal hires internal hires have a lot of you know a lot of you know a lot of you know it doesn't help us pay our mortgage um it doesn't help us pay our mortgage um it doesn't help us pay our mortgage um but internal hires a lot of times for but internal hires a lot of times for but internal hires a lot of times for churches not always but a lot of times churches not always but a lot of times churches not always but a lot of times you you can knock a couple of those four you you can knock a couple of those four you you can knock a couple of those four right off the bat right right because right off the bat right right because right off the bat right right because they're already aligned with you they're already aligned with you they're already aligned with you theologically yeah they're already theologically yeah they're already theologically yeah they're already aligned with you culturally you know aligned with you culturally you know aligned with you culturally you know they're they're they're very well might they're they're they're very well might they're they're they're very well might be the chemistry and you kind of they're be the chemistry and you kind of they're be the chemistry and you kind of they're a known commodity you kind of know what a known commodity you kind of know what a known commodity you kind of know what you're getting the biggest reason more you're getting the biggest reason more you're getting the biggest reason more people more churches don't hire people more churches don't hire people more churches don't hire internally is because they they think in internally is because they they think in internally is because they they think in their head their head their head i need to have a professional it's like i need to have a professional it's like i need to have a professional it's like if you've if you've got in if you have a if you've if you've got in if you have a if you've if you've got in if you have a good discipleship program and a good good discipleship program and a good good discipleship program and a good mentoring program in your church and mentoring program in your church and mentoring program in your church and you've got a volunteer that's hitting it you've got a volunteer that's hitting it you've got a volunteer that's hitting it out of the park out of the park out of the park man those can be those can turn into man those can be those can turn into man those can be those can turn into really really great team members really really great team members really really great team members speaking of um maybe misunderstanding speaking of um maybe misunderstanding speaking of um maybe misunderstanding why why why why do churches or what are some of the why do churches or what are some of the why do churches or what are some of the misconceptions of hiring a firm like you misconceptions of hiring a firm like you misconceptions of hiring a firm like you guys to step in and help us find our guys to step in and help us find our guys to step in and help us find our next next next valuable candidate right our next valuable candidate right our next valuable candidate right our next valuable employee versus valuable employee versus valuable employee versus us doing on our own what are some of

us doing on our own what are some of us doing on our own what are some of those those those mis understandings that churches have mis understandings that churches have mis understandings that churches have well i mean i think well i mean i think well i mean i think i think the biggest the biggest i think the biggest the biggest i think the biggest the biggest concern is that it's going to cost us concern is that it's going to cost us concern is that it's going to cost us way too much money way too much money way too much money that we just don't have it budgeted and that we just don't have it budgeted and that we just don't have it budgeted and and i can tell you this and i can tell you this and i can tell you this whether you go with a firm or whether whether you go with a firm or whether whether you go with a firm or whether you do it internally it's going to cost you do it internally it's going to cost you do it internally it's going to cost some money some money some money and chances are you didn't have that and chances are you didn't have that and chances are you didn't have that money budgeted money budgeted money budgeted right now you know you don't usually you right now you know you don't usually you right now you know you don't usually you don't usually uh uh budget for those don't usually uh uh budget for those don't usually uh uh budget for those those knocks on your door at ten o'clock those knocks on your door at ten o'clock those knocks on your door at ten o'clock in the morning when somebody says hey in the morning when somebody says hey in the morning when somebody says hey i'm leaving i'm leaving i'm leaving um um um one of the things that again that makes one of the things that again that makes one of the things that again that makes us unique is that uh our our pl our us unique is that uh our our pl our us unique is that uh our our pl our pricing structure is different than some pricing structure is different than some pricing structure is different than some of the other firms we're kind of a flat of the other firms we're kind of a flat of the other firms we're kind of a flat rate and we like i said we leverage rate and we like i said we leverage rate and we like i said we leverage technology so all of our we're not technology so all of our we're not technology so all of our we're not hopping on planes and flying across the hopping on planes and flying across the hopping on planes and flying across the country to to visit you or candidates country to to visit you or candidates country to to visit you or candidates uh which which can really uh which which can really uh which which can really make the cost much more much more make the cost much more much more make the cost much more much more expensive expensive expensive so we can we can help bring the price so we can we can help bring the price so we can we can help bring the price down but a lot of people are surprised down but a lot of people are surprised down but a lot of people are surprised that um that it's not nearly as that um that it's not nearly as that um that it's not nearly as expensive at least with chemistry as expensive at least with chemistry as expensive at least with chemistry as what it is with some of the other firms what it is with some of the other firms what it is with some of the other firms a couple of the other things is is a couple of the other things is is a couple of the other things is is sometimes people think that you know if sometimes people think that you know if sometimes people think that you know if you hire if you're hiring a search firm you hire if you're hiring a search firm you hire if you're hiring a search firm that um it's just you know it's gonna be that um it's just you know it's gonna be that um it's just you know it's gonna be two weeks and we'll have our person two weeks and we'll have our person two weeks and we'll have our person and that and we might be talking about and that and we might be talking about and that and we might be talking about this here in the in the next part but uh this here in the in the next part but uh this here in the in the next part but uh particularly out of covid things have particularly out of covid things have particularly out of covid things have changed a lot it's very much a

changed a lot it's very much a changed a lot it's very much a candidate's market things have changed a candidate's market things have changed a candidate's market things have changed a lot when it comes to how churches are lot when it comes to how churches are lot when it comes to how churches are hiring and it's changed a lot from our hiring and it's changed a lot from our hiring and it's changed a lot from our perspective as to what candidates are perspective as to what candidates are perspective as to what candidates are looking for looking for looking for and those kind of things so a lot of and those kind of things so a lot of and those kind of things so a lot of times churches will call us and they're times churches will call us and they're times churches will call us and they're they're kind of looking for a unicorn they're kind of looking for a unicorn they're kind of looking for a unicorn you know hey we've been trying to find you know hey we've been trying to find you know hey we've been trying to find this you know 18 to 20 year old uh this you know 18 to 20 year old uh this you know 18 to 20 year old uh hispanic uh worship pastor who does not hispanic uh worship pastor who does not hispanic uh worship pastor who does not like hillsong but likes bethel and you like hillsong but likes bethel and you like hillsong but likes bethel and you know know know is not married but is engaged and you is not married but is engaged and you is not married but is engaged and you know know know a lot of a lot of different filters on a lot of a lot of different filters on a lot of a lot of different filters on there there there and uh you know and uh you know and uh you know the the more filters you put the the more filters you put the the more filters you put uh the longer your search can take not uh the longer your search can take not uh the longer your search can take not always but a lot of times it can take always but a lot of times it can take always but a lot of times it can take longer longer longer but that's just general advice as to but that's just general advice as to but that's just general advice as to whether you're hiring a firm or whether whether you're hiring a firm or whether whether you're hiring a firm or whether you're doing that search on your own you're doing that search on your own you're doing that search on your own what what's some of those trends that what what's some of those trends that what what's some of those trends that you're seeing i mean i i the great you're seeing i mean i i the great you're seeing i mean i i the great resignation comes to mind resignation comes to mind resignation comes to mind what else is out there that that you're what else is out there that that you're what else is out there that that you're having to deal with that having to deal with that having to deal with that the church in a sense you're taking that the church in a sense you're taking that the church in a sense you're taking that burden from the church so to speak to to burden from the church so to speak to to burden from the church so to speak to to deal with those issues what are some of deal with those issues what are some of deal with those issues what are some of those sure those sure those sure sure well um and we can mention this at sure well um and we can mention this at sure well um and we can mention this at the end but if you go to the end but if you go to the end but if you go to chemistrystaffing.com chemistrystaffing.com chemistrystaffing.com great resignation we've actually written great resignation we've actually written great resignation we've actually written uh it's about a 30-page pdf that have uh it's about a 30-page pdf that have uh it's about a 30-page pdf that have kind of all of our findings kind of all of our findings kind of all of our findings and it's really and it's really and it's really some of the only work that i've seen some of the only work that i've seen some of the only work that i've seen published published published on the great resignation specifically as on the great resignation specifically as on the great resignation specifically as it applies to the church i'm sure it applies to the church i'm sure it applies to the church i'm sure there's others out there but this is there's others out there but this is there's others out there but this is something that we've kind of had a front something that we've kind of had a front something that we've kind of had a front front door seat to see some of these

front door seat to see some of these front door seat to see some of these trends trends trends and tons of things have happened and tons of things have happened and tons of things have happened uh i would say as a as a general uh i would say as a as a general uh i would say as a as a general as a general rule if you've read any of as a general rule if you've read any of as a general rule if you've read any of the of the secular press the of the secular press the of the secular press um writings on the great resignation um writings on the great resignation um writings on the great resignation i would say that i would say that i would say that just about everything i've read in the just about everything i've read in the just about everything i've read in the secular press secular press secular press it's it amazes me because this isn't it's it amazes me because this isn't it's it amazes me because this isn't always the case about everything that always the case about everything that always the case about everything that we've read in the secular press and the we've read in the secular press and the we've read in the secular press and the great resignation great resignation great resignation is totally the same in the church is totally the same in the church is totally the same in the church so uh it's real it's real in the secular so uh it's real it's real in the secular so uh it's real it's real in the secular i mean i i kind of make the joke i mean i mean i i kind of make the joke i mean i mean i i kind of make the joke i mean in my time i live in a little town in my time i live in a little town in my time i live in a little town called bryan ohio there's sign up on called bryan ohio there's sign up on called bryan ohio there's sign up on burger king outside that says burger king outside that says burger king outside that says interviews on the spot i mean they will interviews on the spot i mean they will interviews on the spot i mean they will they will literally if you walk in there they will literally if you walk in there they will literally if you walk in there and they will take your interview and and they will take your interview and and they will take your interview and they will put you on the on the flame they will put you on the on the flame they will put you on the on the flame griller you know in an hour because griller you know in an hour because griller you know in an hour because they're having trouble finding really they're having trouble finding really they're having trouble finding really good qualified people or you know even good qualified people or you know even good qualified people or you know even for even for burger king yeah uh we're for even for burger king yeah uh we're for even for burger king yeah uh we're we're seeing the same thing in churches we're seeing the same thing in churches we're seeing the same thing in churches so right now so right now so right now um um um lots of churches are hiring lots of churches are hiring lots of churches are hiring and there's less candidates so it's very and there's less candidates so it's very and there's less candidates so it's very much a candidate's market much a candidate's market much a candidate's market i want to take a moment to thank you for i want to take a moment to thank you for i want to take a moment to thank you for tuning into the missional marketing tuning into the missional marketing tuning into the missional marketing podcast it's always our goal to help you podcast it's always our goal to help you podcast it's always our goal to help you as a church leader leverage your as a church leader leverage your as a church leader leverage your communications and digital media communications and digital media communications and digital media resources to reach more people for jesus resources to reach more people for jesus resources to reach more people for jesus one of the ways that we help churches do one of the ways that we help churches do one of the ways that we help churches do that is through creating social media that is through creating social media that is through creating social media content from your sunday sermon videos content from your sunday sermon videos content from your sunday sermon videos specifically what we can do for you is specifically what we can do for you is specifically what we can do for you is to create short sermon snippets from 30

to create short sermon snippets from 30 to create short sermon snippets from 30 seconds long to five minutes long seconds long to five minutes long seconds long to five minutes long capturing those mic drop moments that capturing those mic drop moments that capturing those mic drop moments that you really want people to remember we you really want people to remember we you really want people to remember we edit the videos add captions add your edit the videos add captions add your edit the videos add captions add your church branding and then you or we post church branding and then you or we post church branding and then you or we post them to your social media channels them to your social media channels them to your social media channels as a pastor i always love to see my as a pastor i always love to see my as a pastor i always love to see my sermon content live on beyond the sermon content live on beyond the sermon content live on beyond the sundays and i know that's what you value sundays and i know that's what you value sundays and i know that's what you value for your sermons too for your sermons too for your sermons too we offer this service as a monthly we offer this service as a monthly we offer this service as a monthly subscription but we've got a six week subscription but we've got a six week subscription but we've got a six week trial that gives you a chance to see how trial that gives you a chance to see how trial that gives you a chance to see how it works if you'd like more information it works if you'd like more information it works if you'd like more information just shoot me an email at b blair just shoot me an email at b blair just shoot me an email at b blair missional missionalmarketing.com i'd be missional missionalmarketing.com i'd be missional missionalmarketing.com i'd be glad to meet with you explain the glad to meet with you explain the glad to meet with you explain the process and answer any questions that process and answer any questions that process and answer any questions that you have once again thanks for tuning in you have once again thanks for tuning in you have once again thanks for tuning in to our podcast let's get back to the to our podcast let's get back to the to our podcast let's get back to the interview interview interview um um um some of the some of the trends we've some of the some of the trends we've some of the some of the trends we've seen as to why there are less candidates seen as to why there are less candidates seen as to why there are less candidates and and um and and um and and um there there are there are less there there are there are less there there are there are less candidates and then there are less candidates and then there are less candidates and then there are less candidates i'll explain that there are candidates i'll explain that there are candidates i'll explain that there are less candidates on the top you take off less candidates on the top you take off less candidates on the top you take off a top layer of what the candidate pool a top layer of what the candidate pool a top layer of what the candidate pool was say to early 2020 was say to early 2020 was say to early 2020 take off a top tier of people that have take off a top tier of people that have take off a top tier of people that have just gotten out of the ministry just gotten out of the ministry just gotten out of the ministry that have just gone through coven and that have just gone through coven and that have just gone through coven and they're just they're they're just they're they're just they're we see this all across the board we see we see this all across the board we see we see this all across the board we see it with senior pastors particularly my it with senior pastors particularly my it with senior pastors particularly my age age age even late 40s even late 40s even late 40s late 50s late 50s late 50s that we're looking at succession plans that we're looking at succession plans that we're looking at succession plans in early 2020 figured they had five or in early 2020 figured they had five or in early 2020 figured they had five or ten more years in them uh got through ten more years in them uh got through ten more years in them uh got through covid covid covid and it just have decided and it just have decided and it just have decided yeah i think it's time uh and two yeah i think it's time uh and two yeah i think it's time uh and two reasons we're hearing there is number reasons we're hearing there is number reasons we're hearing there is number one i'm just tired i'm just i'm just

one i'm just tired i'm just i'm just one i'm just tired i'm just i'm just burned out and tired and i don't have burned out and tired and i don't have burned out and tired and i don't have the energy uh and the second is the energy uh and the second is the energy uh and the second is um ministry has changed so much um ministry has changed so much um ministry has changed so much that i i don't think i'm the right that i i don't think i'm the right that i i don't think i'm the right person person person to make the changes for that i know need to make the changes for that i know need to make the changes for that i know need to be made in my church coming out of to be made in my church coming out of to be made in my church coming out of covid so so that takes off a number of covid so so that takes off a number of covid so so that takes off a number of senior pastors senior pastors senior pastors from the market the market from the market the market from the market the market um we've we've especially seen it too um we've we've especially seen it too um we've we've especially seen it too with uh with student ministry and with uh with student ministry and with uh with student ministry and worship and and kids and family uh that worship and and kids and family uh that worship and and kids and family uh that sounds like a pretty wide swath but sounds like a pretty wide swath but sounds like a pretty wide swath but those those children's youth kids those those children's youth kids those those children's youth kids um um um have been the ones that have really have been the ones that have really have been the ones that have really suffered a lot suffered a lot suffered a lot under covet it's just been ministry has under covet it's just been ministry has under covet it's just been ministry has changed their job descriptions have changed their job descriptions have changed their job descriptions have changed 18 different times changed 18 different times changed 18 different times you know they can't they can't make a you know they can't they can't make a you know they can't they can't make a good decision to save their life because good decision to save their life because good decision to save their life because whatever decision they make they take whatever decision they make they take whatever decision they make they take off somebody else off somebody else off somebody else so a lot of those people and honestly so a lot of those people and honestly so a lot of those people and honestly some of those support staff people were some of those support staff people were some of those support staff people were making 35 40 000 a year not getting paid making 35 40 000 a year not getting paid making 35 40 000 a year not getting paid really well and all of a sudden really well and all of a sudden really well and all of a sudden during cover they didn't have to go into during cover they didn't have to go into during cover they didn't have to go into church on the weekends um and they found church on the weekends um and they found church on the weekends um and they found out that they can they can go work at out that they can they can go work at out that they can they can go work at fedex a nine to five job make as much fedex a nine to five job make as much fedex a nine to five job make as much money with full benefits and be home money with full benefits and be home money with full benefits and be home every night with their kids every night with their kids every night with their kids and some of them at least for a season and some of them at least for a season and some of them at least for a season are doing that so you've got that whole are doing that so you've got that whole are doing that so you've got that whole top tier top tier top tier of people that have that are just out of people that have that are just out of people that have that are just out and then you've got the people that are and then you've got the people that are and then you've got the people that are still in still in still in that are just they're just kicked in the that are just they're just kicked in the that are just they're just kicked in the kicked in the face yeah i mean they just

kicked in the face yeah i mean they just kicked in the face yeah i mean they just gotten all the i i the way i describe it gotten all the i i the way i describe it gotten all the i i the way i describe it guys is that everybody that we've talked guys is that everybody that we've talked guys is that everybody that we've talked to to to i've not talked to one person in the i've not talked to one person in the i've not talked to one person in the last last last 18 months two years that says i'm not 18 months two years that says i'm not 18 months two years that says i'm not tired this has been a tough season tired this has been a tough season tired this has been a tough season um but everybody seems to be on a um but everybody seems to be on a um but everybody seems to be on a spectrum somewhere from i'm tired spectrum somewhere from i'm tired spectrum somewhere from i'm tired to i'm i'm burned out to i'm i'm burned out to i'm i'm burned out to i'm angry to i'm angry to i'm angry or i'm bitter or i'm bitter or i'm bitter um and at one point last year guys and um and at one point last year guys and um and at one point last year guys and we talked to candidates all day long we talked to candidates all day long we talked to candidates all day long every day it was almost a third of the every day it was almost a third of the every day it was almost a third of the candidates that we talked to candidates that we talked to candidates that we talked to that were that were that were um um um i don't want this to sound horrible but i don't want this to sound horrible but i don't want this to sound horrible but just not just not just not we didn't feel comfortable passing them we didn't feel comfortable passing them we didn't feel comfortable passing them on to a church right now because they're on to a church right now because they're on to a church right now because they're just they're not it's tired it's okay just they're not it's tired it's okay just they're not it's tired it's okay you can recover from tired burned out um you can recover from tired burned out um you can recover from tired burned out um you know you might need a little bit of you know you might need a little bit of you know you might need a little bit of rest time yeah if you're angry but i rest time yeah if you're angry but i rest time yeah if you're angry but i mean the number of people that were mean the number of people that were mean the number of people that were angry and bitter angry and bitter angry and bitter coming out of covet was just through the coming out of covet was just through the coming out of covet was just through the roof it's getting better roof it's getting better roof it's getting better it's getting better it's getting better it's getting better as of the first of this year but the as of the first of this year but the as of the first of this year but the number the number of pastors and pastors number the number of pastors and pastors number the number of pastors and pastors and and support teams that we talked to and and support teams that we talked to and and support teams that we talked to that were just angry and bitter and that were just angry and bitter and that were just angry and bitter and people that had that said my kids don't people that had that said my kids don't people that had that said my kids don't have anything to do with the church have anything to do with the church have anything to do with the church or my wife has not been to church in six or my wife has not been to church in six or my wife has not been to church in six months because months because months because of of conflict of of conflict of of conflict that has just really increased and and that has just really increased and and that has just really increased and and that's one of the things i think that by that's one of the things i think that by that's one of the things i think that by hiring a firm whether it's us or another

hiring a firm whether it's us or another hiring a firm whether it's us or another firm that that kind of talks with firm that that kind of talks with firm that that kind of talks with candidates more often that that's one of candidates more often that that's one of candidates more often that that's one of the benefits is being able to the benefits is being able to the benefits is being able to uh have a firm that can kind of weed out uh have a firm that can kind of weed out uh have a firm that can kind of weed out some of those because we're pretty good some of those because we're pretty good some of those because we're pretty good at sniffing that stuff out at sniffing that stuff out at sniffing that stuff out uh and our approach is we want to coach uh and our approach is we want to coach uh and our approach is we want to coach candidates as much as we can through candidates as much as we can through candidates as much as we can through that so we have a lot of conversations that so we have a lot of conversations that so we have a lot of conversations about man you just about man you just about man you just you're just beat up a little beat up you're just beat up a little beat up you're just beat up a little beat up right now and they're like yeah man i am right now and they're like yeah man i am right now and they're like yeah man i am it's like you know god's got a call on it's like you know god's got a call on it's like you know god's got a call on your life your life your life but uh maybe you need to take three but uh maybe you need to take three but uh maybe you need to take three months off and months off and months off and go go take that fedex job go go take that fedex job go go take that fedex job go love on your wife go love on your go love on your wife go love on your go love on your wife go love on your family and and family and and family and and and uh you know the call will still be and uh you know the call will still be and uh you know the call will still be there come back and talk to us in three there come back and talk to us in three there come back and talk to us in three months because months because months because we don't we don't want to send we don't we don't want to send we don't we don't want to send candidates to churches that are taking a candidates to churches that are taking a candidates to churches that are taking a lot of baggage with them or that they're lot of baggage with them or that they're lot of baggage with them or that they're angry or burnt because they're just angry or burnt because they're just angry or burnt because they're just going to take their issues to the new going to take their issues to the new going to take their issues to the new church church church you know that's something that's really you know that's something that's really you know that's something that's really interesting because interesting because interesting because they're not going to be maybe as they're not going to be maybe as they're not going to be maybe as transparent with their new boss as they transparent with their new boss as they transparent with their new boss as they would with you you know and so that's would with you you know and so that's would with you you know and so that's that's something to really consider if that's something to really consider if that's something to really consider if if you're looking to hire which we are if you're looking to hire which we are if you're looking to hire which we are seeing that all over the place we talked seeing that all over the place we talked seeing that all over the place we talked a lot of churches and a lot of churches and a lot of churches and people are leaving and it's kind of people are leaving and it's kind of people are leaving and it's kind of opened a door for us because we provide opened a door for us because we provide opened a door for us because we provide some solutions to their especially when some solutions to their especially when some solutions to their especially when it comes to communications to their it comes to communications to their it comes to communications to their communications staffing communications staffing communications staffing pains we can kind of step in and help pains we can kind of step in and help pains we can kind of step in and help out uh but we're seeing that all over out uh but we're seeing that all over out uh but we're seeing that all over the place and so you know that does that the place and so you know that does that the place and so you know that does that makes sense before you pull the trigger makes sense before you pull the trigger makes sense before you pull the trigger and hire somebody and hire somebody and hire somebody go through those proper steps and go through those proper steps and go through those proper steps and channels to make sure you're not hiring channels to make sure you're not hiring channels to make sure you're not hiring a potential 12 to 18 months issue

a potential 12 to 18 months issue a potential 12 to 18 months issue nobody wants that nobody wants that nobody wants that yeah and and honestly you hit on a good yeah and and honestly you hit on a good yeah and and honestly you hit on a good point there jason as far as um point there jason as far as um point there jason as far as um since we're not the church since we're not the church since we're not the church and since since our interviewers as i and since since our interviewers as i and since since our interviewers as i said are kind of said are kind of said are kind of they're we're pastors we're pastors and they're we're pastors we're pastors and they're we're pastors we're pastors and youth pastors and student pastors youth pastors and student pastors youth pastors and student pastors you know we all have full-time jobs most you know we all have full-time jobs most you know we all have full-time jobs most of us have full-time jobs um in ministry of us have full-time jobs um in ministry of us have full-time jobs um in ministry so so so um um um people people kind of open up to us a people people kind of open up to us a people people kind of open up to us a little bit more than they would to a little bit more than they would to a little bit more than they would to a church church church and they also allow us to speak in a and they also allow us to speak in a and they also allow us to speak in a little bit more so we can you know a lot little bit more so we can you know a lot little bit more so we can you know a lot of times during our interviews we'll say of times during our interviews we'll say of times during our interviews we'll say hey can i take off my interview and put hey can i take off my interview and put hey can i take off my interview and put on my coaching hat so that we can have on my coaching hat so that we can have on my coaching hat so that we can have those kind of conversations that you as those kind of conversations that you as those kind of conversations that you as a church employer a church employer a church employer you know that's that's just not what you you know that's that's just not what you you know that's that's just not what you do during an interview usually normally do during an interview usually normally do during an interview usually normally yeah yeah are you sure you want to take yeah yeah are you sure you want to take yeah yeah are you sure you want to take your family and move across the country your family and move across the country your family and move across the country for this job like you know yeah wearing for this job like you know yeah wearing for this job like you know yeah wearing a friend i do that often with uh with a friend i do that often with uh with a friend i do that often with uh with our staff it'll i'll be i'll wear your our staff it'll i'll be i'll wear your our staff it'll i'll be i'll wear your boss hat but then i'll just put on my boss hat but then i'll just put on my boss hat but then i'll just put on my friend hat let's have a conversation friend hat let's have a conversation friend hat let's have a conversation about this you know yep which i think is about this you know yep which i think is about this you know yep which i think is healthy to do yeah yep exactly healthy to do yeah yep exactly healthy to do yeah yep exactly yeah one of one of the other just really yeah one of one of the other just really yeah one of one of the other just really quick one of the other things that we've quick one of the other things that we've quick one of the other things that we've noticed that that might be of interest noticed that that might be of interest noticed that that might be of interest um to those that are they're listening um to those that are they're listening um to those that are they're listening is um is um is um it used to be pre-coveted that you could it used to be pre-coveted that you could it used to be pre-coveted that you could um you know whether you're using church um you know whether you're using church um you know whether you're using church staffing.com or a website to kind of put staffing.com or a website to kind of put staffing.com or a website to kind of put out you could do a national search if out you could do a national search if out you could do a national search if you're looking for a student ministry you're looking for a student ministry you're looking for a student ministry you could do a national search and you you could do a national search and you you could do a national search and you can still do that can still do that can still do that what covett has done from the candidate what covett has done from the candidate what covett has done from the candidate side of things is it is really side of things is it is really side of things is it is really not in every case but in a lot of cases

not in every case but in a lot of cases not in every case but in a lot of cases restricted restricted restricted geographically uh where people are geographically uh where people are geographically uh where people are willing to go and here's here's why i willing to go and here's here's why i willing to go and here's here's why i think this is happening because i've think this is happening because i've think this is happening because i've heard this story happen quite often is heard this story happen quite often is heard this story happen quite often is that during during 2020 when all those that during during 2020 when all those that during during 2020 when all those shutdowns happened shutdowns happened shutdowns happened particularly younger candidates or particularly younger candidates or particularly younger candidates or candidates with with younger kids and candidates with with younger kids and candidates with with younger kids and families um families um families um that were maybe spread out you know that were maybe spread out you know that were maybe spread out you know eight states away from their family eight states away from their family eight states away from their family they missed thanksgiving that year they missed thanksgiving that year they missed thanksgiving that year they missed christmas that year because they missed christmas that year because they missed christmas that year because they couldn't travel because of all the they couldn't travel because of all the they couldn't travel because of all the travel restrictions and when all the travel restrictions and when all the travel restrictions and when all the restrictions kind of went away and they restrictions kind of went away and they restrictions kind of went away and they started you know the fog started to started you know the fog started to started you know the fog started to clear and they're like clear and they're like clear and they're like uh you know i'm looking at maybe moving uh you know i'm looking at maybe moving uh you know i'm looking at maybe moving to a different ministry to a different ministry to a different ministry one of one of the filters that they had one of one of the filters that they had one of one of the filters that they had that maybe wouldn't have been there two that maybe wouldn't have been there two that maybe wouldn't have been there two years prior years prior years prior was i want to move back closer to home was i want to move back closer to home was i want to move back closer to home so we're getting a lot more of so we're getting a lot more of so we're getting a lot more of you know i want to be within a day's you know i want to be within a day's you know i want to be within a day's drive of tallahassee or i want to be drive of tallahassee or i want to be drive of tallahassee or i want to be within a couple hours of within a couple hours of within a couple hours of of you know columbus of you know columbus of you know columbus um so um so um so so really if if you've not if you're if so really if if you've not if you're if so really if if you've not if you're if you're a church and you've not hired for you're a church and you've not hired for you're a church and you've not hired for a couple of years that might be one a couple of years that might be one a couple of years that might be one thing that you really notice is much thing that you really notice is much thing that you really notice is much different is a national search different is a national search different is a national search maybe this time around maybe much more maybe this time around maybe much more maybe this time around maybe much more regional or even much more local than regional or even much more local than regional or even much more local than what it was couple years ago just what it was couple years ago just what it was couple years ago just because people are because people are because people are are just a little more picky as to where are just a little more picky as to where are just a little more picky as to where they can go and because of all the they can go and because of all the they can go and because of all the things happen it's been a perfect storm things happen it's been a perfect storm things happen it's been a perfect storm with that great resignation with that great resignation with that great resignation um um um it's a candidate's market so if they it's a candidate's market so if they it's a candidate's market so if they want to be within two hours of want to be within two hours of want to be within two hours of tallahassee

tallahassee tallahassee you know they'll wait until there's you know they'll wait until there's you know they'll wait until there's something two hours from tallahassee something two hours from tallahassee something two hours from tallahassee because that that job will pop up because that that job will pop up because that that job will pop up relatively soon usually interesting relatively soon usually interesting relatively soon usually interesting yeah yeah yeah that's very fascinating todd and uh i that's very fascinating todd and uh i that's very fascinating todd and uh i think you know you've highlighted a few think you know you've highlighted a few think you know you've highlighted a few things that i had i had questions about things that i had i had questions about things that i had i had questions about particularly the kind of this particularly the kind of this particularly the kind of this the regionalism of where people are the regionalism of where people are the regionalism of where people are wanting to go um you know you you and i wanting to go um you know you you and i wanting to go um you know you you and i had met a while back another ministry had met a while back another ministry had met a while back another ministry that i work with has has brought in that i work with has has brought in that i work with has has brought in chemistry staffing to to help us with chemistry staffing to to help us with chemistry staffing to to help us with some searches and that has been probably some searches and that has been probably some searches and that has been probably one of the um one of the um one of the um has been one of the most frustrating has been one of the most frustrating has been one of the most frustrating things for me is that i know there's things for me is that i know there's things for me is that i know there's some great candidates out there but they some great candidates out there but they some great candidates out there but they like they want to live in this county in like they want to live in this county in like they want to live in this county in this state and it does make it a lot this state and it does make it a lot this state and it does make it a lot more it makes it a lot more complicated more it makes it a lot more complicated more it makes it a lot more complicated uh when you don't have the the you know uh when you don't have the the you know uh when you don't have the the you know the full breadth of the country uh to the full breadth of the country uh to the full breadth of the country uh to choose from but i also i've also talked choose from but i also i've also talked choose from but i also i've also talked to guys in ministry who are actively to guys in ministry who are actively to guys in ministry who are actively trying to get out of a state trying to get out of a state trying to get out of a state because of the way that the state had because of the way that the state had because of the way that the state had managed coven right there's political managed coven right there's political managed coven right there's political things going on in states and in regions things going on in states and in regions things going on in states and in regions and pastors are going i'm not done with and pastors are going i'm not done with and pastors are going i'm not done with ministry but i'm done with ministry here ministry but i'm done with ministry here ministry but i'm done with ministry here i can't do it here anymore i'm sure i can't do it here anymore i'm sure i can't do it here anymore i'm sure you're seeing some of that it actually you're seeing some of that it actually you're seeing some of that it actually does it works both ways and and it it's does it works both ways and and it it's does it works both ways and and it it's it's larger than just geography it's larger than just geography it's larger than just geography and and some of this may be generational and and some of this may be generational and and some of this may be generational but i think a lot of it is coveted but i think a lot of it is coveted but i think a lot of it is coveted driven driven driven is that um is that um is that um there's there's there's there's just a change there's just a change there's just a change in the way people many people define

in the way people many people define in the way people many people define calling calling calling right so i'm old enough to know you know right so i'm old enough to know you know right so i'm old enough to know you know my generation calling was my generation calling was my generation calling was many times you know hey i'll go wherever many times you know hey i'll go wherever many times you know hey i'll go wherever god wants me to go and i'll do whatever god wants me to go and i'll do whatever god wants me to go and i'll do whatever god wants me to do god wants me to do god wants me to do um and and i'm going to be a pastor for um and and i'm going to be a pastor for um and and i'm going to be a pastor for the rest of my life those kind of things the rest of my life those kind of things the rest of my life those kind of things were kind of your your calling right you were kind of your your calling right you were kind of your your calling right you knew that you were going to be in this knew that you were going to be in this knew that you were going to be in this type of a role somewhere wherever god type of a role somewhere wherever god type of a role somewhere wherever god called you to be well the calling called you to be well the calling called you to be well the calling calling today and particularly out of calling today and particularly out of calling today and particularly out of cove but we've seen this shift cove but we've seen this shift cove but we've seen this shift it's it's it's shifting to more it's it's it's shifting to more it's it's it's shifting to more geographical like yeah i want to be a geographical like yeah i want to be a geographical like yeah i want to be a pastor uh but i want to be a pastor in pastor uh but i want to be a pastor in pastor uh but i want to be a pastor in florida or i want to be a pastor here or florida or i want to be a pastor here or florida or i want to be a pastor here or here but not here or here but not here or here but not here or this swath this swath this swath but it's also but it's also but it's also it's also kind of a you know it's also kind of a you know it's also kind of a you know god has called me to serve him it god has called me to serve him it god has called me to serve him it doesn't necessarily have to be as a doesn't necessarily have to be as a doesn't necessarily have to be as a pastor or a worship pastor it could be pastor or a worship pastor it could be pastor or a worship pastor it could be as in a non-profit as in a non-profit as in a non-profit it could be it could be i could fulfill it could be it could be i could fulfill it could be it could be i could fulfill my calling working at fedex my calling working at fedex my calling working at fedex okay so that's just a different kind of okay so that's just a different kind of okay so that's just a different kind of definition that we're seeing compared to definition that we're seeing compared to definition that we're seeing compared to what we did maybe 15 20 25 years ago and what we did maybe 15 20 25 years ago and what we did maybe 15 20 25 years ago and i'm not saying that's horrible i'm just i'm not saying that's horrible i'm just i'm not saying that's horrible i'm just saying saying saying it's it's changed it's changing it's it's changed it's changing it's it's changed it's changing particularly with a lot of younger particularly with a lot of younger particularly with a lot of younger candidates um candidates um candidates um it's it's been a perfect storm in a lot it's it's been a perfect storm in a lot it's it's been a perfect storm in a lot of ways i've talked to of ways i've talked to of ways i've talked to a couple of a couple of a couple of christian college and seminary christian college and seminary christian college and seminary professors in the past couple weeks professors in the past couple weeks professors in the past couple weeks that have all said you know first of all that have all said you know first of all that have all said you know first of all our are they wouldn't say this our are they wouldn't say this our are they wouldn't say this necessarily uh publicly but the number necessarily uh publicly but the number necessarily uh publicly but the number of students that we have is down the

of students that we have is down the of students that we have is down the number of students that we're attracting number of students that we're attracting number of students that we're attracting to our ministry programs is down but the to our ministry programs is down but the to our ministry programs is down but the other thing i thought found was really other thing i thought found was really other thing i thought found was really interesting was that a good majority of interesting was that a good majority of interesting was that a good majority of of students that are currently in of students that are currently in of students that are currently in christian colleges in ministry programs christian colleges in ministry programs christian colleges in ministry programs like student ministry programs those like student ministry programs those like student ministry programs those kind of things it's not their goal to kind of things it's not their goal to kind of things it's not their goal to work in a church they want to go out and work in a church they want to go out and work in a church they want to go out and they want to work for a non-profit or they want to work for a non-profit or they want to work for a non-profit or they want to go and work for a they want to go and work for a they want to go and work for a youth you know some kind of youth for youth you know some kind of youth for youth you know some kind of youth for christ or christ or christ or or or or you know some some other kind of uh you know some some other kind of uh you know some some other kind of uh thing outside the church but they don't thing outside the church but they don't thing outside the church but they don't ever see themselves necessarily ever see themselves necessarily ever see themselves necessarily going into being a youth pastor or or a going into being a youth pastor or or a going into being a youth pastor or or a staff person on a church staff so it's staff person on a church staff so it's staff person on a church staff so it's really interesting really interesting really interesting times are changing yeah times are changing yeah times are changing yeah yeah for sure uh yeah this has been a yeah for sure uh yeah this has been a yeah for sure uh yeah this has been a great conversation todd um before we great conversation todd um before we great conversation todd um before we sign off and point people to uh where sign off and point people to uh where sign off and point people to uh where they can connect with you where they can they can connect with you where they can they can connect with you where they can find this uh uh this uh 30 page document find this uh uh this uh 30 page document find this uh uh this uh 30 page document you said a 30 page document on the you said a 30 page document on the you said a 30 page document on the ground wow yeah okay so you're ahead of ground wow yeah okay so you're ahead of ground wow yeah okay so you're ahead of barna on this that's pretty impressive barna on this that's pretty impressive barna on this that's pretty impressive i don't know about that but i don't know about that but i don't know about that but yeah so uh so before we point people yeah so uh so before we point people yeah so uh so before we point people that direction um is there anything that that direction um is there anything that that direction um is there anything that you wish that we had asked you today uh you wish that we had asked you today uh you wish that we had asked you today uh regarding church uh staffing hiring the regarding church uh staffing hiring the regarding church uh staffing hiring the search process anything that we didn't search process anything that we didn't search process anything that we didn't ask you that you think we should have ask you that you think we should have ask you that you think we should have asked you asked you asked you no no no not really uh not really uh not really uh parting parting thoughts though i would parting parting thoughts though i would parting parting thoughts though i would say that say that say that if you're a church that's searching for if you're a church that's searching for if you're a church that's searching for staff member

staff member staff member um just realize kind of when you're going just realize kind of when you're going into the search that first of all god's into the search that first of all god's into the search that first of all god's not surprised by your need not surprised by your need not surprised by your need right and uh he's not surprised at all right and uh he's not surprised at all right and uh he's not surprised at all um um um the thing is we don't know what we don't the thing is we don't know what we don't the thing is we don't know what we don't we only see in part we don't see the we only see in part we don't see the we only see in part we don't see the full right full right full right so i would just ask you as you as you so i would just ask you as you as you so i would just ask you as you as you come in contact with candidates and come in contact with candidates and come in contact with candidates and people that you're interested and people people that you're interested and people people that you're interested and people that that apply that you're not that that apply that you're not that that apply that you're not interested in interested in interested in um be kind and gracious um be kind and gracious um be kind and gracious uh churches many times cannot be very uh churches many times cannot be very uh churches many times cannot be very good and you guys are in this space so good and you guys are in this space so good and you guys are in this space so you know this um you know this um you know this um not not great at communication sometimes not not great at communication sometimes not not great at communication sometimes and job searches are one of those areas and job searches are one of those areas and job searches are one of those areas and it's not the church's fault it's not and it's not the church's fault it's not and it's not the church's fault it's not like anybody says no i'm just gonna wake like anybody says no i'm just gonna wake like anybody says no i'm just gonna wake up and i'm gonna i'm just gonna not up and i'm gonna i'm just gonna not up and i'm gonna i'm just gonna not communicate with anybody that applies communicate with anybody that applies communicate with anybody that applies but um but um but um when you cut when when you're in talks when you cut when when you're in talks when you cut when when you're in talks or contact with a candidate this is or contact with a candidate this is or contact with a candidate this is somebody that's somebody that's somebody that's in the process of transitioning out of in the process of transitioning out of in the process of transitioning out of one ministry which is their life and one ministry which is their life and one ministry which is their life and their their livelihood and chances are their their livelihood and chances are their their livelihood and chances are all of their their relationships and all of their their relationships and all of their their relationships and their their their everything is kind of invested in their everything is kind of invested in their everything is kind of invested in their current church so this is some are some current church so this is some are some current church so this is some are some are coming out of great healthy are coming out of great healthy are coming out of great healthy ministries some are coming out of really ministries some are coming out of really ministries some are coming out of really bad situations but regardless when bad situations but regardless when bad situations but regardless when you're talking to these people it's a you're talking to these people it's a you're talking to these people it's a really stressful time so be gracious and really stressful time so be gracious and really stressful time so be gracious and kind to them kind to them kind to them [Music] [Music] [Music] whenever you can whenever you can whenever you can make sure you communicate well with them make sure you communicate well with them make sure you communicate well with them we hear from candidates all the time you we hear from candidates all the time you we hear from candidates all the time you know i applied to 30 churches and didn't

know i applied to 30 churches and didn't know i applied to 30 churches and didn't hear back from anybody and that happens hear back from anybody and that happens hear back from anybody and that happens quite often you know whenever you're quite often you know whenever you're quite often you know whenever you're whenever you're looking for somebody and whenever you're looking for somebody and whenever you're looking for somebody and you get a resume at least you get a resume at least you get a resume at least pop them an email back that says hey we pop them an email back that says hey we pop them an email back that says hey we got it and we're going to take a look at got it and we're going to take a look at got it and we're going to take a look at it those kind of things are just really it those kind of things are just really it those kind of things are just really important but uh when when they're not important but uh when when they're not important but uh when when they're not there they're they're just soul sucking there they're they're just soul sucking there they're they're just soul sucking for the for the person that's going for the for the person that's going for the for the person that's going through an already really tough through an already really tough through an already really tough transitional time so transitional time so transitional time so um and realizing that that you and your um and realizing that that you and your um and realizing that that you and your church are going through a tough time church are going through a tough time church are going through a tough time too you're having to fill holes and and too you're having to fill holes and and too you're having to fill holes and and uh corral volunteers and and fill things uh corral volunteers and and fill things uh corral volunteers and and fill things that were maybe normally done by a by a that were maybe normally done by a by a that were maybe normally done by a by a full-time staff person full-time staff person full-time staff person um um um but uh yeah but uh yeah but uh yeah that would be that would be the one that would be that would be the one that would be that would be the one thing just just be kind and gracious thing just just be kind and gracious thing just just be kind and gracious because every it's it's been tough on because every it's it's been tough on because every it's it's been tough on everybody the last couple years everybody the last couple years everybody the last couple years everybody's tired everybody's tired everybody's tired yeah for sure well todd thanks so much yeah for sure well todd thanks so much yeah for sure well todd thanks so much uh for taking the time with us today i uh for taking the time with us today i uh for taking the time with us today i know that you you've got a road trip know that you you've got a road trip know that you you've got a road trip ahead of you this afternoon so we ahead of you this afternoon so we ahead of you this afternoon so we appreciate you squeezing us in appreciate you squeezing us in appreciate you squeezing us in if our audience our listeners or our if our audience our listeners or our if our audience our listeners or our viewers want to connect with you what's viewers want to connect with you what's viewers want to connect with you what's the best way for them to do that the best way for them to do that the best way for them to do that sure you can pop me an email and i reply sure you can pop me an email and i reply sure you can pop me an email and i reply to all my emails believe it or not to all my emails believe it or not to all my emails believe it or not todd todd.roads r-h-o-a-d-e-s todd todd.roads r-h-o-a-d-e-s todd todd.roads r-h-o-a-d-e-s chemistry staffing and that great resignation and that great resignation download it's free download you can get download it's free download you can get download it's free download you can get that at chemistrystaffing.com that at chemistrystaffing.com that at chemistrystaffing.com great resignation great resignation great resignation and i think there'd be some and i think there'd be some and i think there'd be some good information if you're if you're good information if you're if you're good information if you're if you're interested in some of the things that interested in some of the things that interested in some of the things that we're seeing we're seeing we're seeing um um um particularly in the past year 18 months

particularly in the past year 18 months particularly in the past year 18 months uh that document really tries to lay out uh that document really tries to lay out uh that document really tries to lay out some of the things that we're seeing if some of the things that we're seeing if some of the things that we're seeing if if you're in the in the process of if you're in the in the process of if you're in the in the process of starting to hire somebody for your starting to hire somebody for your starting to hire somebody for your search yeah yeah that's great search yeah yeah that's great search yeah yeah that's great thanks todd appreciate you being on the thanks todd appreciate you being on the thanks todd appreciate you being on the show today thank you show today thank you show today thank you [Music]