Incorporate Empathy Into Church Marketing | Amy Chaney

[Music] [Music] you have to give purpose to every action you have to give purpose to every action you have to give purpose to every action it's not just about showing up it's it's not just about showing up it's it's not just about showing up it's about what you're going to get from it about what you're going to get from it about what you're going to get from it and a lot of church people will bemoan and a lot of church people will bemoan and a lot of church people will bemoan that like you show up for others not for that like you show up for others not for that like you show up for others not for yourself yourself yourself but not all of those if statements were but not all of those if statements were but not all of those if statements were self-centered you know holding a baby in self-centered you know holding a baby in self-centered you know holding a baby in the nursery is not a self-centered the nursery is not a self-centered the nursery is not a self-centered offense statement but you point to the offense statement but you point to the offense statement but you point to the purpose behind that I think any purpose behind that I think any purpose behind that I think any communication that doesn't point in that communication that doesn't point in that communication that doesn't point in that direction is just white noise that's direction is just white noise that's direction is just white noise that's clutter clutter clutter welcome to season three episode eight of welcome to season three episode eight of welcome to season three episode eight of the missional marketing podcast I'm Bart the missional marketing podcast I'm Bart the missional marketing podcast I'm Bart Blair the co-host of the show and I want Blair the co-host of the show and I want Blair the co-host of the show and I want to thank you for tuning in to this to thank you for tuning in to this to thank you for tuning in to this week's episode whatever your seat is on week's episode whatever your seat is on week's episode whatever your seat is on the ministry bus if you have your hands the ministry bus if you have your hands the ministry bus if you have your hands involved in Communications or social involved in Communications or social involved in Communications or social media or marketing or Outreach we media or marketing or Outreach we media or marketing or Outreach we believe that you have one of the most believe that you have one of the most believe that you have one of the most important tasks in the church maybe important tasks in the church maybe important tasks in the church maybe you're a solo senior pastor and you're you're a solo senior pastor and you're you're a solo senior pastor and you're doing all the communications maybe doing all the communications maybe doing all the communications maybe you're the communications director at you're the communications director at you're the communications director at Omega Church a large Church perhaps you Omega Church a large Church perhaps you Omega Church a large Church perhaps you are the youth pastor or the worship are the youth pastor or the worship are the youth pastor or the worship pastor and being the communications pastor and being the communications pastor and being the communications person just also happens to be in those person just also happens to be in those person just also happens to be in those you know all other duties as assigned or you know all other duties as assigned or you know all other duties as assigned or maybe you're a volunteer in your church maybe you're a volunteer in your church maybe you're a volunteer in your church and you're just doing the best that you and you're just doing the best that you and you're just doing the best that you can to come up with time and creative can to come up with time and creative can to come up with time and creative ideas to help your church reach more ideas to help your church reach more ideas to help your church reach more people online it's a really really people online it's a really really people online it's a really really important role sometimes pretty daunting important role sometimes pretty daunting important role sometimes pretty daunting and that's why we do what we do at and that's why we do what we do at and that's why we do what we do at missional marketing it's why we create missional marketing it's why we create missional marketing it's why we create podcasts and all the other blog content podcasts and all the other blog content podcasts and all the other blog content that we have on our website to help you that we have on our website to help you that we have on our website to help you do your job better we believe that you do your job better we believe that you do your job better we believe that you can we believe that all together we can can we believe that all together we can can we believe that all together we can reach teach more people for God's reach teach more people for God's reach teach more people for God's kingdom using all of these digital tools

kingdom using all of these digital tools kingdom using all of these digital tools at our disposal if you've been around at our disposal if you've been around at our disposal if you've been around the church Communications or church the church Communications or church the church Communications or church marketing space for a while you might be marketing space for a while you might be marketing space for a while you might be familiar with the name Kim Meyer Kem familiar with the name Kim Meyer Kem familiar with the name Kim Meyer Kem Meyer was an early Pioneer in the church Meyer was an early Pioneer in the church Meyer was an early Pioneer in the church Communications world she was the church Communications world she was the church Communications world she was the church communications director at Granger communications director at Granger communications director at Granger Community Church in Indiana and she now Community Church in Indiana and she now Community Church in Indiana and she now has her own Consulting Agency company has her own Consulting Agency company has her own Consulting Agency company called chem Meyer and Company and I called chem Meyer and Company and I called chem Meyer and Company and I reached out to cam a few months ago and reached out to cam a few months ago and reached out to cam a few months ago and said hey I think you'd be great guest on said hey I think you'd be great guest on said hey I think you'd be great guest on our show and she said I might be a great our show and she said I might be a great our show and she said I might be a great guest on your show but I've got someone guest on your show but I've got someone guest on your show but I've got someone on my team who I think would be an even on my team who I think would be an even on my team who I think would be an even greater guest on your show and she greater guest on your show and she greater guest on your show and she connected me with one of her colleagues connected me with one of her colleagues connected me with one of her colleagues named Amy Chaney and I met with Amy to named Amy Chaney and I met with Amy to named Amy Chaney and I met with Amy to do just sort of a get to know your call do just sort of a get to know your call do just sort of a get to know your call and I was like blown away at how bright and I was like blown away at how bright and I was like blown away at how bright how sharp how much of a big think Amy how sharp how much of a big think Amy how sharp how much of a big think Amy has in regards to church Communications has in regards to church Communications has in regards to church Communications Church marketing and things that are Church marketing and things that are Church marketing and things that are important in the church world and so we important in the church world and so we important in the church world and so we uh race recently my colleague Jason uh race recently my colleague Jason uh race recently my colleague Jason Hamrock and I sat down and had an Hamrock and I sat down and had an Hamrock and I sat down and had an awesome interview with Amy learned a ton awesome interview with Amy learned a ton awesome interview with Amy learned a ton and we think that you are going to learn and we think that you are going to learn and we think that you are going to learn a ton as well if you're finding this a ton as well if you're finding this a ton as well if you're finding this podcast to be helpful make sure that you podcast to be helpful make sure that you podcast to be helpful make sure that you subscribe wherever you're listening so subscribe wherever you're listening so subscribe wherever you're listening so you don't miss any future episodes if you don't miss any future episodes if you don't miss any future episodes if you're watching on the YouTube channel you're watching on the YouTube channel you're watching on the YouTube channel make sure that you ring the bell so that make sure that you ring the bell so that make sure that you ring the bell so that you get notified about new episodes and you get notified about new episodes and you get notified about new episodes and if you haven't left us a rating a review if you haven't left us a rating a review if you haven't left us a rating a review we'd love for you to do that that would we'd love for you to do that that would we'd love for you to do that that would just help more people find the podcast just help more people find the podcast just help more people find the podcast online and it also gives us feedback online and it also gives us feedback online and it also gives us feedback about things that you're finding about things that you're finding about things that you're finding important and helpful about this podcast important and helpful about this podcast important and helpful about this podcast so thanks again for tuning in to season so thanks again for tuning in to season so thanks again for tuning in to season three episode eight uh here's my three episode eight uh here's my three episode eight uh here's my colleague Jason hemrock an art interview

colleague Jason hemrock an art interview colleague Jason hemrock an art interview with Amy Chaney with Amy Chaney with Amy Chaney well Amy welcome to the podcast glad to well Amy welcome to the podcast glad to well Amy welcome to the podcast glad to uh have you on today how are you uh have you on today how are you uh have you on today how are you I'm doing great I'm glad to be here I'm doing great I'm glad to be here I'm doing great I'm glad to be here thanks for asking me to join you yeah thanks for asking me to join you yeah thanks for asking me to join you yeah and you are uh coming to us from lovely and you are uh coming to us from lovely and you are uh coming to us from lovely Massachusetts in September you're about Massachusetts in September you're about Massachusetts in September you're about to embark on a beautiful part of the of to embark on a beautiful part of the of to embark on a beautiful part of the of your year yes that's correct yes we have your year yes that's correct yes we have your year yes that's correct yes we have one month out of 12. that's really one month out of 12. that's really one month out of 12. that's really magical here in New England and it's magical here in New England and it's magical here in New England and it's October it's over too quickly but it's October it's over too quickly but it's October it's over too quickly but it's worth all the pumpkin spice and Link worth all the pumpkin spice and Link worth all the pumpkin spice and Link peeping magic it's worth it you know peeping magic it's worth it you know peeping magic it's worth it you know this is a tangent but Starbucks you know this is a tangent but Starbucks you know this is a tangent but Starbucks you know they release all this you know pumpkin they release all this you know pumpkin they release all this you know pumpkin you know it's the fall they want to get you know it's the fall they want to get you know it's the fall they want to get sales going on but here in Phoenix when sales going on but here in Phoenix when sales going on but here in Phoenix when it's still well over 100 degrees and it's still well over 100 degrees and it's still well over 100 degrees and you're seeing all that it's just not you're seeing all that it's just not you're seeing all that it's just not magical for us just yeah and I actually magical for us just yeah and I actually magical for us just yeah and I actually will not participate in any of that will not participate in any of that will not participate in any of that nonsense until October 1st it has to nonsense until October 1st it has to nonsense until October 1st it has to remain a short season otherwise you risk remain a short season otherwise you risk remain a short season otherwise you risk like really overdoing it yeah yeah yeah like really overdoing it yeah yeah yeah like really overdoing it yeah yeah yeah no I'm supportive of that oh well so no I'm supportive of that oh well so no I'm supportive of that oh well so glad to have you on the show excited glad to have you on the show excited glad to have you on the show excited about our conversation today for our about our conversation today for our about our conversation today for our audience give us a little background as audience give us a little background as audience give us a little background as to who you are and and uh what you're to who you are and and uh what you're to who you are and and uh what you're doing these days and and we'll just dive doing these days and and we'll just dive doing these days and and we'll just dive in because I'm excited about the topic in because I'm excited about the topic in because I'm excited about the topic we're gonna get into yeah we're gonna get into yeah we're gonna get into yeah uh so I'm I'm allergic to boredom so uh so I'm I'm allergic to boredom so uh so I'm I'm allergic to boredom so I've done a little bit of a lot of I've done a little bit of a lot of I've done a little bit of a lot of things things things um but really the common like through um but really the common like through um but really the common like through line through all the things that I've

line through all the things that I've line through all the things that I've done in my career and in my education done in my career and in my education done in my career and in my education has been communication I started off um has been communication I started off um has been communication I started off um as an artist I got my MFA in painting as an artist I got my MFA in painting as an artist I got my MFA in painting um which like now years later I realized um which like now years later I realized um which like now years later I realized was me falling in love with figuring out was me falling in love with figuring out was me falling in love with figuring out new ways to say pretty typical things new ways to say pretty typical things new ways to say pretty typical things um and I use those skills now even um and I use those skills now even um and I use those skills now even though I'm I'm not a painter really though I'm I'm not a painter really though I'm I'm not a painter really anymore but anymore but anymore but um I serve now full time at a Christian um I serve now full time at a Christian um I serve now full time at a Christian School in Lexington Massachusetts School in Lexington Massachusetts School in Lexington Massachusetts Lexington Christian Academy not the one Lexington Christian Academy not the one Lexington Christian Academy not the one in Kentucky the one in Massachusetts to in Kentucky the one in Massachusetts to in Kentucky the one in Massachusetts to get confused all the time get confused all the time get confused all the time um and I work as an administrator here um and I work as an administrator here um and I work as an administrator here and one of my responsibilities is uh the and one of my responsibilities is uh the and one of my responsibilities is uh the running the marketing for our school running the marketing for our school running the marketing for our school and it's a six through 12 program here and it's a six through 12 program here and it's a six through 12 program here that's faith-based and that's faith-based and that's faith-based and I've been here 12 years but in addition I've been here 12 years but in addition I've been here 12 years but in addition to that I also work for Ken Meyer and to that I also work for Ken Meyer and to that I also work for Ken Meyer and Company and Kim Meyer is one of my Company and Kim Meyer is one of my Company and Kim Meyer is one of my heroes I had her like quotes from her heroes I had her like quotes from her heroes I had her like quotes from her book hanging in my office when I worked book hanging in my office when I worked book hanging in my office when I worked for a church a few years ago for a church a few years ago for a church a few years ago and that was before I'd ever met her and and that was before I'd ever met her and and that was before I'd ever met her and so when I got to meet Kim and then so when I got to meet Kim and then so when I got to meet Kim and then eventually began to work with her it was eventually began to work with her it was eventually began to work with her it was like like like quite a thing like a dream come true so quite a thing like a dream come true so quite a thing like a dream come true so to speak to speak to speak um but Kim and I uh and our team we work um but Kim and I uh and our team we work um but Kim and I uh and our team we work with a whole lot of different clients with a whole lot of different clients with a whole lot of different clients many of them are churches though and we

many of them are churches though and we many of them are churches though and we are brand therapists we help churches uh are brand therapists we help churches uh are brand therapists we help churches uh clarify who they are Define their clarify who they are Define their clarify who they are Define their messaging really figure out how to messaging really figure out how to messaging really figure out how to communicate the good stuff that they're communicate the good stuff that they're communicate the good stuff that they're doing more and the and get rid of all doing more and the and get rid of all doing more and the and get rid of all the other clutter that's distracting the other clutter that's distracting the other clutter that's distracting from the ministry work that they're from the ministry work that they're from the ministry work that they're doing so that's super fun work I did a doing so that's super fun work I did a doing so that's super fun work I did a stint uh working for a church as well I stint uh working for a church as well I stint uh working for a church as well I worked for a church for about six years worked for a church for about six years worked for a church for about six years as a communications director an as a communications director an as a communications director an engagement director engagement director engagement director discipleship director I've preached I've discipleship director I've preached I've discipleship director I've preached I've done youth group so if you're working done youth group so if you're working done youth group so if you're working for a church and listening here I for a church and listening here I for a church and listening here I probably did what you do now at some probably did what you do now at some probably did what you do now at some point point point and it is truly a privilege and pleasure and it is truly a privilege and pleasure and it is truly a privilege and pleasure to help to help to help folks spreading the gospel folks spreading the gospel folks spreading the gospel um just do their work a little bit um just do their work a little bit um just do their work a little bit better yes as you know with what Kim and better yes as you know with what Kim and better yes as you know with what Kim and I do together so okay yeah I I'm really I do together so okay yeah I I'm really I do together so okay yeah I I'm really excited to talk about you know how you excited to talk about you know how you excited to talk about you know how you uh helps churches in the States but uh helps churches in the States but uh helps churches in the States but something something caught my attention something something caught my attention something something caught my attention when you said you're when you said you're when you said you're trying to help churches trying to help churches trying to help churches uh you know figure out their brand and uh you know figure out their brand and uh you know figure out their brand and figure out their identity and and be figure out their identity and and be figure out their identity and and be able to articulate that why is it that able to articulate that why is it that able to articulate that why is it that churches struggle with identifying that churches struggle with identifying that churches struggle with identifying that uh their brand and and having too much uh their brand and and having too much uh their brand and and having too much clutter clutter clutter I think a few reasons one of them is an I think a few reasons one of them is an I think a few reasons one of them is an inherent Christian humility I think inherent Christian humility I think inherent Christian humility I think churches are bad at marketing because churches are bad at marketing because churches are bad at marketing because Christians believe bragging is bad and Christians believe bragging is bad and Christians believe bragging is bad and people associate like branding and

people associate like branding and people associate like branding and marketing with being braggadocious and marketing with being braggadocious and marketing with being braggadocious and over the top and selling people things over the top and selling people things over the top and selling people things subversively and I think it's time to subversively and I think it's time to subversively and I think it's time to set that aside I think marketing has set that aside I think marketing has set that aside I think marketing has developed developed developed um well beyond Super Bowl commercials at um well beyond Super Bowl commercials at um well beyond Super Bowl commercials at this point marketing is simply telling this point marketing is simply telling this point marketing is simply telling your story your brand is nothing more your story your brand is nothing more your story your brand is nothing more than your reputation it is the shortcut than your reputation it is the shortcut than your reputation it is the shortcut to getting people in your doors to buy to getting people in your doors to buy to getting people in your doors to buy your product if your business your product if your business your product if your business um I think we've evolved past thinking um I think we've evolved past thinking um I think we've evolved past thinking of marketing as just like of marketing as just like of marketing as just like bragging about who you are and so I bragging about who you are and so I bragging about who you are and so I think that that Christian humility is think that that Christian humility is think that that Christian humility is one of the reasons that churches one of the reasons that churches one of the reasons that churches struggle with it I also think churches struggle with it I also think churches struggle with it I also think churches um one of the beautiful things about the um one of the beautiful things about the um one of the beautiful things about the Christian faith is that there's this Christian faith is that there's this Christian faith is that there's this Unity you know across different Unity you know across different Unity you know across different congregations and I think that congregations and I think that congregations and I think that especially now especially in the kind of especially now especially in the kind of especially now especially in the kind of cultural moment that we find ourselves cultural moment that we find ourselves cultural moment that we find ourselves in the best churches that we work with in the best churches that we work with in the best churches that we work with are trying to find more of that unity are trying to find more of that unity are trying to find more of that unity and are actually like steering and are actually like steering and are actually like steering themselves away from figuring out their themselves away from figuring out their themselves away from figuring out their differentiators which is really you know differentiators which is really you know differentiators which is really you know a key component of marketing is What a key component of marketing is What a key component of marketing is What Makes You Different why would someone Makes You Different why would someone Makes You Different why would someone come to your church instead of the come to your church instead of the come to your church instead of the church down the street and church down the street and church down the street and um the mo the best communities that I um the mo the best communities that I um the mo the best communities that I found out there like we don't care if found out there like we don't care if found out there like we don't care if they go to the church down the street they go to the church down the street they go to the church down the street but we also need people to come to our but we also need people to come to our but we also need people to come to our church and like donate and help us pay church and like donate and help us pay church and like donate and help us pay our bills and our bills and our bills and um balancing that I think in the context um balancing that I think in the context um balancing that I think in the context of really good Ministry can be really

of really good Ministry can be really of really good Ministry can be really tricky tricky tricky um so I think I think there's a lot of um so I think I think there's a lot of um so I think I think there's a lot of fear I guess surrounding branding and fear I guess surrounding branding and fear I guess surrounding branding and marketing in the church space and time marketing in the church space and time marketing in the church space and time and I get to dispel that a little bit and I get to dispel that a little bit and I get to dispel that a little bit yeah yeah I'm with you oh because it it yeah yeah I'm with you oh because it it yeah yeah I'm with you oh because it it really I think churches get in their own really I think churches get in their own really I think churches get in their own way and what they don't realize is way and what they don't realize is way and what they don't realize is everybody everybody everybody if they know you has an opinion about if they know you has an opinion about if they know you has an opinion about you and so you know the question is you and so you know the question is you and so you know the question is going to be you know what what are those going to be you know what what are those going to be you know what what are those people outside your church thinking people outside your church thinking people outside your church thinking about you and how do you control that about you and how do you control that about you and how do you control that narrative what is it you're doing that's narrative what is it you're doing that's narrative what is it you're doing that's going to going to going to build the brand that you want to build build the brand that you want to build build the brand that you want to build so how do you how do you lead churches so how do you how do you lead churches so how do you how do you lead churches through that exercise through that exercise through that exercise um one of the things we tried to one of the things we tried to every church is is that every church is is that every church is is that um essentially what they're marketing um essentially what they're marketing um essentially what they're marketing what their message is is the gospel and what their message is is the gospel and what their message is is the gospel and that is to on some level that is to on some level that is to on some level the same as the church down the street the same as the church down the street the same as the church down the street if they're doing a good job too if they're doing a good job too if they're doing a good job too the thing is that every good story the thing is that every good story the thing is that every good story um um um needs to be told in several different needs to be told in several different needs to be told in several different ways if you've ever had like a favorite ways if you've ever had like a favorite ways if you've ever had like a favorite family you know fairy tale that you know family you know fairy tale that you know family you know fairy tale that you know your your crazy aunt says every time you your your crazy aunt says every time you your your crazy aunt says every time you gather on the table for Thanksgiving you gather on the table for Thanksgiving you gather on the table for Thanksgiving you know it's the same story but it's told know it's the same story but it's told know it's the same story but it's told over and over and over again and it's over and over and over again and it's over and over and over again and it's told in slightly different ways and then told in slightly different ways and then told in slightly different ways and then eventually someone else starts telling eventually someone else starts telling eventually someone else starts telling the story that's the story that's the story that's that's key to how human beings tell that's key to how human beings tell that's key to how human beings tell stories is that sort of like being able

stories is that sort of like being able stories is that sort of like being able to to tell the same story from various to to tell the same story from various to to tell the same story from various different perspectives different perspectives different perspectives and that is what churches are doing as and that is what churches are doing as and that is what churches are doing as individual congregations individual congregations individual congregations um they're every person has a unique set um they're every person has a unique set um they're every person has a unique set of needs of needs of needs and every individual congregation can't and every individual congregation can't and every individual congregation can't meet all what is it seven eight billion meet all what is it seven eight billion meet all what is it seven eight billion people's needs people's needs people's needs but they can focus on a certain kind of but they can focus on a certain kind of but they can focus on a certain kind of cross-section of needs that are found in cross-section of needs that are found in cross-section of needs that are found in their community their community their community and for that reason because humanity is and for that reason because humanity is and for that reason because humanity is very diverse there need to be different very diverse there need to be different very diverse there need to be different churches telling the gospel in different churches telling the gospel in different churches telling the gospel in different ways expressing their faith in different ways expressing their faith in different ways expressing their faith in different ways engaging with their communities in ways engaging with their communities in ways engaging with their communities in different ways and so their brand is different ways and so their brand is different ways and so their brand is really the really the really the like I said before kind of a shortcut like I said before kind of a shortcut like I said before kind of a shortcut um it is um it is um it is when you're looking at kind of two when you're looking at kind of two when you're looking at kind of two churches in a similar neighborhood your churches in a similar neighborhood your churches in a similar neighborhood your brand is what shortcuts people choosing brand is what shortcuts people choosing brand is what shortcuts people choosing to try yours first it's your reputation to try yours first it's your reputation to try yours first it's your reputation in the community it's the difference in the community it's the difference in the community it's the difference between being a church that's known for between being a church that's known for between being a church that's known for like really like really like really Spirit-filled and expressive worship Spirit-filled and expressive worship Spirit-filled and expressive worship versus a church that's known for all of versus a church that's known for all of versus a church that's known for all of these various kind of service Ministries these various kind of service Ministries these various kind of service Ministries or community service Ministries or community service Ministries or community service Ministries um both we need both um both we need both um both we need both um both are really biblical ways of um both are really biblical ways of um both are really biblical ways of honoring God yeah honoring God yeah honoring God yeah um but you can kind of decide what needs

um but you can kind of decide what needs um but you can kind of decide what needs you're going to fulfill as a community you're going to fulfill as a community you're going to fulfill as a community and then craft your brand from there and then craft your brand from there and then craft your brand from there and that's ultimately helpful for people and that's ultimately helpful for people and that's ultimately helpful for people finding their home that is huge can I finding their home that is huge can I finding their home that is huge can I that's just a follow-up question to that that's just a follow-up question to that that's just a follow-up question to that though okay so you're working we don't though okay so you're working we don't though okay so you're working we don't need to get in too deep into the weeds need to get in too deep into the weeds need to get in too deep into the weeds or or we can it just depends on how or or we can it just depends on how or or we can it just depends on how interesting you find question or not interesting you find question or not interesting you find question or not when you're working with churches and when you're working with churches and when you're working with churches and say you have you said a couple of things say you have you said a couple of things say you have you said a couple of things that I think are a little bit that I think are a little bit that I think are a little bit contradictory so I want you to kind of contradictory so I want you to kind of contradictory so I want you to kind of help me figure this out one you said help me figure this out one you said help me figure this out one you said I think I interpret you just saying that I think I interpret you just saying that I think I interpret you just saying that differentiation in and of itself is not differentiation in and of itself is not differentiation in and of itself is not as important maybe as we think that it as important maybe as we think that it as important maybe as we think that it is but then conversely you said hey we is but then conversely you said hey we is but then conversely you said hey we have two different churches in a in the have two different churches in a in the have two different churches in a in the same community that Express same community that Express same community that Express themselves and communicate the gospel themselves and communicate the gospel themselves and communicate the gospel differently so there is obviously some differently so there is obviously some differently so there is obviously some benefit for differentiation not for the benefit for differentiation not for the benefit for differentiation not for the purpose of competition right that's purpose of competition right that's purpose of competition right that's that's the big difference Coca-Cola and that's the big difference Coca-Cola and that's the big difference Coca-Cola and Pepsi they're trying to differentiate Pepsi they're trying to differentiate Pepsi they're trying to differentiate because they're trying to eat the other because they're trying to eat the other because they're trying to eat the other one alive right they want to take all of one alive right they want to take all of one alive right they want to take all of their customers in the church world their customers in the church world their customers in the church world our differentiation is is really our differentiation is is really our differentiation is is really designed to make sure that we are designed to make sure that we are designed to make sure that we are effectively reaching the people that God effectively reaching the people that God effectively reaching the people that God has called us to reach in the community has called us to reach in the community has called us to reach in the community um when you're walking churches through um when you're walking churches through um when you're walking churches through that process whether you want to call it that process whether you want to call it that process whether you want to call it differentiation or whatever you want to differentiation or whatever you want to differentiation or whatever you want to call it what do you do with them or how call it what do you do with them or how call it what do you do with them or how do you help them explore the community do you help them explore the community do you help them explore the community to do that Community exegesis to to do that Community exegesis to to do that Community exegesis to determine who it is specifically that determine who it is specifically that determine who it is specifically that God is calling them to reach and then

God is calling them to reach and then God is calling them to reach and then how to craft their message around that how to craft their message around that how to craft their message around that does that question make sense it does that question make sense it does that question make sense it absolutely does and I I don't I think absolutely does and I I don't I think absolutely does and I I don't I think differentiation is essential I think differentiation is essential I think differentiation is essential I think it's really important I think some it's really important I think some it's really important I think some church communities church communities church communities are afraid to really go there because are afraid to really go there because are afraid to really go there because they don't want to say that they do that they don't want to say that they do that they don't want to say that they do that they don't do anything every Church they don't do anything every Church they don't do anything every Church wants to be everything to everybody and wants to be everything to everybody and wants to be everything to everybody and they want to find Unity with every other they want to find Unity with every other they want to find Unity with every other church because Unity is like there is church because Unity is like there is church because Unity is like there is this sort of um this sort of um this sort of um this uh resistance I think to really this uh resistance I think to really this uh resistance I think to really digging deep into what your church is digging deep into what your church is digging deep into what your church is doing really really well because they're doing really really well because they're doing really really well because they're afraid of being the church that's not afraid of being the church that's not afraid of being the church that's not doing this other thing over here what if doing this other thing over here what if doing this other thing over here what if the preaching is like mediocre what if the preaching is like mediocre what if the preaching is like mediocre what if the music is off key we don't want to the music is off key we don't want to the music is off key we don't want to not do everything really well and I not do everything really well and I not do everything really well and I think that's dangerous actually so one think that's dangerous actually so one think that's dangerous actually so one of the things that um that we do when we of the things that um that we do when we of the things that um that we do when we walk with churches is walk with churches is walk with churches is we have a process where we create what we have a process where we create what we have a process where we create what we but we have a copywritten uh process we but we have a copywritten uh process we but we have a copywritten uh process to create a brand cue card which is like to create a brand cue card which is like to create a brand cue card which is like a resume uh for your church and it talks a resume uh for your church and it talks a resume uh for your church and it talks about who you are who you serve how you about who you are who you serve how you about who you are who you serve how you do it and what you do do it and what you do do it and what you do and and and one of the really essential parts of one of the really essential parts of one of the really essential parts of this process is doing what's basically this process is doing what's basically this process is doing what's basically like an empathy mapping process of the like an empathy mapping process of the like an empathy mapping process of the people that you're serving or sometimes people that you're serving or sometimes people that you're serving or sometimes the people that you wish you were the people that you wish you were the people that you wish you were serving serving serving because we also wind up working with because we also wind up working with because we also wind up working with lots of churches who have a congregation

lots of churches who have a congregation lots of churches who have a congregation that's aging out and they're not that's aging out and they're not that's aging out and they're not replenishing themselves or they're replenishing themselves or they're replenishing themselves or they're they're in the midst of a like healing they're in the midst of a like healing they're in the midst of a like healing from a really toxic or unhealthy season from a really toxic or unhealthy season from a really toxic or unhealthy season or there's something there where they or there's something there where they or there's something there where they want to see their congregation change want to see their congregation change want to see their congregation change actually so an empathy map really walks actually so an empathy map really walks actually so an empathy map really walks through these questions of through these questions of through these questions of you know if you close your eyes and you you know if you close your eyes and you you know if you close your eyes and you imagine someone walking in your door imagine someone walking in your door imagine someone walking in your door where do they sit how do they feel where where do they sit how do they feel where where do they sit how do they feel where did they find you did they find you did they find you did they show up already a Believer or did they show up already a Believer or did they show up already a Believer or did they show up with no idea who Christ did they show up with no idea who Christ did they show up with no idea who Christ was or is are they sad do you like what was or is are they sad do you like what was or is are they sad do you like what are their needs and you kind of like are their needs and you kind of like are their needs and you kind of like walk through and ask ask them these walk through and ask ask them these walk through and ask ask them these questions and they start to paint a questions and they start to paint a questions and they start to paint a picture picture picture of the the people in their midst or the of the the people in their midst or the of the the people in their midst or the people that they're trying to reach and people that they're trying to reach and people that they're trying to reach and then that helps us focus in on what the then that helps us focus in on what the then that helps us focus in on what the most important things are doing are most important things are doing are most important things are doing are a problem we see all the time with a problem we see all the time with a problem we see all the time with churches is that there is sort of like churches is that there is sort of like churches is that there is sort of like event and program they're over event and program they're over event and program they're over performing they're over programmed and performing they're over programmed and performing they're over programmed and they're they're overdoing everything they're they're overdoing everything they're they're overdoing everything there are too many events they're like there are too many events they're like there are too many events they're like shooting at every every angle every time shooting at every every angle every time shooting at every every angle every time someone has a good idea they say yes to someone has a good idea they say yes to someone has a good idea they say yes to it because they don't want to say no to it because they don't want to say no to it because they don't want to say no to any kind of good idea yeah any kind of good idea yeah any kind of good idea yeah um and we often talk about the value of um and we often talk about the value of um and we often talk about the value of sometimes you yes and sometimes you sometimes you yes and sometimes you sometimes you yes and sometimes you bless and you can you can say yes to a bless and you can you can say yes to a bless and you can you can say yes to a really good idea or you can bless really good idea or you can bless really good idea or you can bless someone in doing it on their own and how someone in doing it on their own and how someone in doing it on their own and how do you kind of narrow in on the things

do you kind of narrow in on the things do you kind of narrow in on the things that are going to matter the most to the that are going to matter the most to the that are going to matter the most to the people you described when you closed people you described when you closed people you described when you closed your eyes and you imagined the people your eyes and you imagined the people your eyes and you imagined the people God's called you to serve um God's called you to serve um God's called you to serve um um and that's different than like um and that's different than like um and that's different than like what's something that we can do better what's something that we can do better what's something that we can do better than the church down the street uh that than the church down the street uh that than the church down the street uh that is a very different exercise than one is a very different exercise than one is a very different exercise than one that's more competitive like that that's more competitive like that that's more competitive like that that's more of a spiritual searching that's more of a spiritual searching that's more of a spiritual searching um um um exercise yeah so it tends to be more exercise yeah so it tends to be more exercise yeah so it tends to be more successful because God's involved successful because God's involved successful because God's involved well I think it's important that if well I think it's important that if well I think it's important that if you're a communication director and you you're a communication director and you you're a communication director and you know you just you start staring at that know you just you start staring at that know you just you start staring at that those questions who is it we're actually those questions who is it we're actually those questions who is it we're actually trying to reach and are we reaching them trying to reach and are we reaching them trying to reach and are we reaching them and who's sitting in our seats and what and who's sitting in our seats and what and who's sitting in our seats and what we are what are we about and as a we are what are we about and as a we are what are we about and as a communication director it's communication director it's communication director it's it's not your it's not your it's not your you're not gonna necessarily the senior you're not gonna necessarily the senior you're not gonna necessarily the senior leadership is going to lead that they're leadership is going to lead that they're leadership is going to lead that they're gonna they're gonna be the ones that gonna they're gonna be the ones that gonna they're gonna be the ones that this is what we're about your job as a this is what we're about your job as a this is what we're about your job as a comp director and and help me clarify comp director and and help me clarify comp director and and help me clarify this better Amy your job is a this better Amy your job is a this better Amy your job is a communication director is to understand communication director is to understand communication director is to understand what they're wanting to do and reach and what they're wanting to do and reach and what they're wanting to do and reach and then make sure that we are articulating then make sure that we are articulating then make sure that we are articulating that or the other way around you want to that or the other way around you want to that or the other way around you want to do this but in reality this is what you do this but in reality this is what you do this but in reality this is what you are doing this is who you are reaching are doing this is who you are reaching are doing this is who you are reaching you know is that is that accurate I mean you know is that is that accurate I mean you know is that is that accurate I mean how do you help walk a com director how do you help walk a com director how do you help walk a com director through that kind of exercise yeah a through that kind of exercise yeah a through that kind of exercise yeah a communications director is ultimately communications director is ultimately communications director is ultimately the champion for the brand they're the

the champion for the brand they're the the champion for the brand they're the protector of that person that they protector of that person that they protector of that person that they describe and that empathy mapping describe and that empathy mapping describe and that empathy mapping exercise and we'll often tell them you exercise and we'll often tell them you exercise and we'll often tell them you know we'll in in our processes we'll know we'll in in our processes we'll know we'll in in our processes we'll give them because Kim and I are give them because Kim and I are give them because Kim and I are insistent upon we're not going to just insistent upon we're not going to just insistent upon we're not going to just give you like a description of your give you like a description of your give you like a description of your brand and then say see you later we're brand and then say see you later we're brand and then say see you later we're we're big on walking people through the we're big on walking people through the we're big on walking people through the implementation of what that looks like implementation of what that looks like implementation of what that looks like because that's the hard part it's very because that's the hard part it's very because that's the hard part it's very easy to talk about yourself and it's easy to talk about yourself and it's easy to talk about yourself and it's really hard sometimes to show up in the really hard sometimes to show up in the really hard sometimes to show up in the way that you've promised yourself you're way that you've promised yourself you're way that you've promised yourself you're gonna show up yeah yeah and so the gonna show up yeah yeah and so the gonna show up yeah yeah and so the communications uh director's job is to communications uh director's job is to communications uh director's job is to filter every single thing that your filter every single thing that your filter every single thing that your church is communicating church is communicating church is communicating through the filter of that person that through the filter of that person that through the filter of that person that you define as a team yeah that is that you define as a team yeah that is that you define as a team yeah that is that is something that you searched your soul is something that you searched your soul is something that you searched your soul for that you know God's calling you to for that you know God's calling you to for that you know God's calling you to reach reach reach that means that if you are a that means that if you are a that means that if you are a congregation and in a you know we've congregation and in a you know we've congregation and in a you know we've worked with churches that are full of worked with churches that are full of worked with churches that are full of people who are like kind of people who are like kind of people who are like kind of disillusioned with religion they're disillusioned with religion they're disillusioned with religion they're Skeptics by Nature they're very heady Skeptics by Nature they're very heady Skeptics by Nature they're very heady um um um if you're communicating either in your if you're communicating either in your if you're communicating either in your promotions or your sermons or in your promotions or your sermons or in your promotions or your sermons or in your space this like really uh heavy like space this like really uh heavy like space this like really uh heavy like churchy language and taking for granted churchy language and taking for granted churchy language and taking for granted that people want to go to a small group that people want to go to a small group that people want to go to a small group and know what discipleship is and if and know what discipleship is and if and know what discipleship is and if you're putting the pastor on a pedestal you're putting the pastor on a pedestal you're putting the pastor on a pedestal I mean even like stage height can really

I mean even like stage height can really I mean even like stage height can really matter and how you communicate your matter and how you communicate your matter and how you communicate your priorities as a congregation priorities as a congregation priorities as a congregation you're not necessarily filtering your you're not necessarily filtering your you're not necessarily filtering your communication through the lens of communication through the lens of communication through the lens of someone who's suspicious of you from day someone who's suspicious of you from day someone who's suspicious of you from day one yeah we have other churches who are one yeah we have other churches who are one yeah we have other churches who are full of young families that are busy and full of young families that are busy and full of young families that are busy and if you're packing your calendar with a if you're packing your calendar with a if you're packing your calendar with a bunch of things that they need to get to bunch of things that they need to get to bunch of things that they need to get to to add to their busy lives you know to add to their busy lives you know to add to their busy lives you know you're kind of missing the point you're you're kind of missing the point you're you're kind of missing the point you're not filtering your communication through not filtering your communication through not filtering your communication through the lens of these like overwhelmed young the lens of these like overwhelmed young the lens of these like overwhelmed young families who don't need another thing to families who don't need another thing to families who don't need another thing to attend they need some equipment to attend they need some equipment to attend they need some equipment to survive the life that they're already survive the life that they're already survive the life that they're already kind of treading water in and kind of treading water in and kind of treading water in and um that is something that often like um that is something that often like um that is something that often like your your pastoral staff will forget to your your pastoral staff will forget to your your pastoral staff will forget to do that because you're so kind of in it do that because you're so kind of in it do that because you're so kind of in it you're so you're so you're so um when you're a Visionary you know lead um when you're a Visionary you know lead um when you're a Visionary you know lead Pastor you are you live and breathe all Pastor you are you live and breathe all Pastor you are you live and breathe all of the this language and this whole kind of the this language and this whole kind of the this language and this whole kind of church culture it's a communication of church culture it's a communication of church culture it's a communication director's job to hold the pastor director's job to hold the pastor director's job to hold the pastor accountable accountable accountable to speak to the people they've agreed to to speak to the people they've agreed to to speak to the people they've agreed to speak to speak to speak to hi Bart Blair here I'm the producer of hi Bart Blair here I'm the producer of hi Bart Blair here I'm the producer of missional marketing's church growth missional marketing's church growth missional marketing's church growth interviews podcast on behalf of our interviews podcast on behalf of our interviews podcast on behalf of our entire team we really appreciate you entire team we really appreciate you entire team we really appreciate you tuning in let me ask you a question if tuning in let me ask you a question if tuning in let me ask you a question if you're a church leader or a church you're a church leader or a church you're a church leader or a church Communications professional do you know Communications professional do you know Communications professional do you know how Google sees your Church website in how Google sees your Church website in how Google sees your Church website in other words if people in your community other words if people in your community other words if people in your community were to Google churches near me or best were to Google churches near me or best were to Google churches near me or best Church in my city or good church nearby

Church in my city or good church nearby Church in my city or good church nearby do you know where your Church website do you know where your Church website do you know where your Church website would show up in those search results would show up in those search results would show up in those search results at the top maybe or somewhere in the at the top maybe or somewhere in the at the top maybe or somewhere in the middle or somewhere on page four you middle or somewhere on page four you middle or somewhere on page four you know there's a common misunderstanding know there's a common misunderstanding know there's a common misunderstanding that if we simply build a great website that if we simply build a great website that if we simply build a great website and we launch it that Google will and we launch it that Google will and we launch it that Google will somehow work its magic and people will somehow work its magic and people will somehow work its magic and people will find Us online but there's a bit more find Us online but there's a bit more find Us online but there's a bit more Art and Science to making sure that your Art and Science to making sure that your Art and Science to making sure that your Church website shows up in the top of Church website shows up in the top of Church website shows up in the top of those search results and that science is those search results and that science is those search results and that science is called local SEO or local search engine called local SEO or local search engine called local SEO or local search engine optimization in additional marketing optimization in additional marketing optimization in additional marketing local SEO is one of the core services local SEO is one of the core services local SEO is one of the core services that we provide for churches all across that we provide for churches all across that we provide for churches all across the United States and Canada we'd love the United States and Canada we'd love the United States and Canada we'd love to help you if you'd like to learn more to help you if you'd like to learn more to help you if you'd like to learn more click to our website at click to our website at click to our website at missionalmarketing.com and follow the missionalmarketing.com and follow the missionalmarketing.com and follow the link at the top of the page that says link at the top of the page that says link at the top of the page that says Church SEO you can request a free local Church SEO you can request a free local Church SEO you can request a free local SEO report to see how your church is SEO report to see how your church is SEO report to see how your church is showing up in Google these days and you showing up in Google these days and you showing up in Google these days and you can schedule an appointment to talk with can schedule an appointment to talk with can schedule an appointment to talk with Jason or with me or with one of our Jason or with me or with one of our Jason or with me or with one of our other digital strategists to help you other digital strategists to help you other digital strategists to help you decide whether or not a local SEO boost decide whether or not a local SEO boost decide whether or not a local SEO boost is right for your church hey again we is right for your church hey again we is right for your church hey again we appreciate you tuning in to our podcast appreciate you tuning in to our podcast appreciate you tuning in to our podcast and we look forward to the opportunity and we look forward to the opportunity and we look forward to the opportunity to serving you in your church and to serving you in your church and to serving you in your church and reaching more people for Jesus now back reaching more people for Jesus now back reaching more people for Jesus now back to the show to the show to the show Let's uh let's talk about you have a Let's uh let's talk about you have a Let's uh let's talk about you have a unique role because you're in a school unique role because you're in a school unique role because you're in a school and you get to interact with kids and and you get to interact with kids and and you get to interact with kids and parents all day long those same kids and parents all day long those same kids and parents all day long those same kids and parents that churches are trying to parents that churches are trying to parents that churches are trying to reach right that's right so talk to us a reach right that's right so talk to us a reach right that's right so talk to us a little bit about you know what are little bit about you know what are little bit about you know what are families struggling with and and how can families struggling with and and how can families struggling with and and how can how can churches how can we learn from

how can churches how can we learn from how can churches how can we learn from you on what on how to connect with you on what on how to connect with you on what on how to connect with families families families yeah we here at our school that we're a yeah we here at our school that we're a yeah we here at our school that we're a grade 6 through 12 school yeah and so grade 6 through 12 school yeah and so grade 6 through 12 school yeah and so middle school and high school age kids middle school and high school age kids middle school and high school age kids who just walked through a pandemic who just walked through a pandemic who just walked through a pandemic and it's been a wild ride these last few and it's been a wild ride these last few and it's been a wild ride these last few years years years um um um but one of the things we reflect on as but one of the things we reflect on as but one of the things we reflect on as as Educators is that we have this as Educators is that we have this as Educators is that we have this opportunity and we're a Christian School opportunity and we're a Christian School opportunity and we're a Christian School so we're we have this opportunity also so we're we have this opportunity also so we're we have this opportunity also to communicate the gospel in the context to communicate the gospel in the context to communicate the gospel in the context of students learning of students learning of students learning five days a week five days a week five days a week nine months a year nine months a year nine months a year every single day for eight hours every single day for eight hours every single day for eight hours and we we often will say you know what and we we often will say you know what and we we often will say you know what would the youth pastor down the street would the youth pastor down the street would the youth pastor down the street give give give to have eight hours five days a week you to have eight hours five days a week you to have eight hours five days a week you know to communicate it might overwhelm know to communicate it might overwhelm know to communicate it might overwhelm them as well like unique opportunity them as well like unique opportunity them as well like unique opportunity right where when you're working in a right where when you're working in a right where when you're working in a church I mean whether it's adults or church I mean whether it's adults or church I mean whether it's adults or kids whatever it is you get like an hour kids whatever it is you get like an hour kids whatever it is you get like an hour a week if you're lucky a week if you're lucky a week if you're lucky and for most people regular Church and for most people regular Church and for most people regular Church attendance you know is once a month even attendance you know is once a month even attendance you know is once a month even now it's really it's changed you have now it's really it's changed you have now it's really it's changed you have such a limited window to communicate and such a limited window to communicate and such a limited window to communicate and so there's this sort of like frantic so there's this sort of like frantic so there's this sort of like frantic pressure pressure pressure whereas where we are we can kind of slow whereas where we are we can kind of slow whereas where we are we can kind of slow down and we can we can take things a down and we can we can take things a down and we can we can take things a little bit we can scaffold things a little bit we can scaffold things a little bit we can scaffold things a little bit differently and that's a little bit differently and that's a little bit differently and that's a privilege privilege privilege um but one of the things that we've um but one of the things that we've um but one of the things that we've really noticed especially as a Christian

really noticed especially as a Christian really noticed especially as a Christian School is we have we serve a lot of School is we have we serve a lot of School is we have we serve a lot of Christian families who five years ago Christian families who five years ago Christian families who five years ago our kids came in to school they knew our kids came in to school they knew our kids came in to school they knew they knew what Chapel was going to look they knew what Chapel was going to look they knew what Chapel was going to look like they knew how to worship you know like they knew how to worship you know like they knew how to worship you know they they were going to church every they they were going to church every they they were going to church every week they attended youth group every week they attended youth group every week they attended youth group every Wednesday Wednesday Wednesday and that stopped for two solid years and that stopped for two solid years and that stopped for two solid years and has picked up really only in a and has picked up really only in a and has picked up really only in a limited way the momentum was lost limited way the momentum was lost limited way the momentum was lost and so as I speak to parents and so as I speak to parents and so as I speak to parents um in addition to marketing I'm also in um in addition to marketing I'm also in um in addition to marketing I'm also in charge of the student life and sort of charge of the student life and sort of charge of the student life and sort of the social emotional threads of things the social emotional threads of things the social emotional threads of things in our school and as I talk to parents in our school and as I talk to parents in our school and as I talk to parents they're they're they're they're feeling alone in in raising they're feeling alone in in raising they're feeling alone in in raising their kids in faith where they had all their kids in faith where they had all their kids in faith where they had all of this kind of built-in support that of this kind of built-in support that of this kind of built-in support that the village has thinned out right like the village has thinned out right like the village has thinned out right like it takes a village to raise a child and it takes a village to raise a child and it takes a village to raise a child and the village has thinned out youth the village has thinned out youth the village has thinned out youth Ministries even like years of play Ministries even like years of play Ministries even like years of play groups with younger kids groups with younger kids groups with younger kids were lost and these every parent's lost were lost and these every parent's lost were lost and these every parent's lost all the time no parents know what all the time no parents know what all the time no parents know what they're really doing right but but they're really doing right but but they're really doing right but but especially now since that Village is so especially now since that Village is so especially now since that Village is so much smaller parents are looking around much smaller parents are looking around much smaller parents are looking around just desperate for equipment just desperate for equipment just desperate for equipment simple equipment how do I how do I pray simple equipment how do I how do I pray simple equipment how do I how do I pray with my kids around the dinner table with my kids around the dinner table with my kids around the dinner table because none of us know how to do it because none of us know how to do it because none of us know how to do it like the things that we took for granted like the things that we took for granted like the things that we took for granted as you know you and I were growing up as you know you and I were growing up as you know you and I were growing up um are just really different for

um are just really different for um are just really different for families today and they're competing families today and they're competing families today and they're competing with things like Tick Tock and you know with things like Tick Tock and you know with things like Tick Tock and you know social media that social media that social media that take attention in a really different way take attention in a really different way take attention in a really different way and we've lost momentum a little bit on and we've lost momentum a little bit on and we've lost momentum a little bit on the development of young people and the development of young people and the development of young people and parents need equipment they need help parents need equipment they need help parents need equipment they need help um so um so um so churches are in a really unique position churches are in a really unique position churches are in a really unique position to provide that and I think we ought to to provide that and I think we ought to to provide that and I think we ought to be folding that into Our Brands probably be folding that into Our Brands probably be folding that into Our Brands probably as churches a little bit more directly as churches a little bit more directly as churches a little bit more directly yeah I often well often 100 of the time yeah I often well often 100 of the time yeah I often well often 100 of the time we get to work with a lot of churches so we get to work with a lot of churches so we get to work with a lot of churches so I always say that content is King in I always say that content is King in I always say that content is King in this you have to be you are generating this you have to be you are generating this you have to be you are generating content church but you've got to content church but you've got to content church but you've got to continue to be generating content that continue to be generating content that continue to be generating content that is needed is needed is needed you know and so and making it available you know and so and making it available you know and so and making it available available for people available for people available for people um and so the churches that do that um and so the churches that do that um and so the churches that do that effectively I think they're they gotta effectively I think they're they gotta effectively I think they're they gotta leg up on get connecting with those leg up on get connecting with those leg up on get connecting with those families those unchurch and Detroit families those unchurch and Detroit families those unchurch and Detroit families or even the church families it families or even the church families it families or even the church families it doesn't really matter any family they're doesn't really matter any family they're doesn't really matter any family they're all they're all struggling it doesn't all they're all struggling it doesn't all they're all struggling it doesn't matter you know what that looks like and matter you know what that looks like and matter you know what that looks like and so you've got to be uh you've got to be so you've got to be uh you've got to be so you've got to be uh you've got to be really good at generating content from really good at generating content from really good at generating content from my opinion I don't yeah but not just any my opinion I don't yeah but not just any my opinion I don't yeah but not just any content you have to be really good at content you have to be really good at content you have to be really good at generating content that solves a problem generating content that solves a problem generating content that solves a problem that's right and every piece of content that's right and every piece of content that's right and every piece of content has to be the full story which is not has to be the full story which is not has to be the full story which is not what churches are used to doing as they what churches are used to doing as they what churches are used to doing as they push out content you're used to pushing push out content you're used to pushing push out content you're used to pushing out just like a little sliver of the

out just like a little sliver of the out just like a little sliver of the Bible yeah which is just a tiny little Bible yeah which is just a tiny little Bible yeah which is just a tiny little piece that's what Sunday is it's just piece that's what Sunday is it's just piece that's what Sunday is it's just like a little tiny piece but parents as like a little tiny piece but parents as like a little tiny piece but parents as they're scrolling through if they if they're scrolling through if they if they're scrolling through if they if they see something that doesn't they see something that doesn't they see something that doesn't immediately connect to their biggest immediately connect to their biggest immediately connect to their biggest problem which is how do I raise these problem which is how do I raise these problem which is how do I raise these kids to know and love Jesus kids to know and love Jesus kids to know and love Jesus and keep them safe if they don't see and keep them safe if they don't see and keep them safe if they don't see that immediate connection that immediate connection that immediate connection you know they're they're too overwhelmed you know they're they're too overwhelmed you know they're they're too overwhelmed to draw that connection themselves so I to draw that connection themselves so I to draw that connection themselves so I think churches should be reaching out to think churches should be reaching out to think churches should be reaching out to every educator in their congregations every educator in their congregations every educator in their congregations and talking to them about how to deliver and talking to them about how to deliver and talking to them about how to deliver instruction how do you scaffold help how instruction how do you scaffold help how instruction how do you scaffold help how do you scaffold do you scaffold do you scaffold connections between this idea and this connections between this idea and this connections between this idea and this idea that's what teachers do and I think idea that's what teachers do and I think idea that's what teachers do and I think I think that needs to come into church I think that needs to come into church I think that needs to come into church content a heck of a lot more in these content a heck of a lot more in these content a heck of a lot more in these next couple of years as we all together next couple of years as we all together next couple of years as we all together recover you know yeah and it's changed recover you know yeah and it's changed recover you know yeah and it's changed so much since uh the pandemic and you so much since uh the pandemic and you so much since uh the pandemic and you know I mean some states and obviously know I mean some states and obviously know I mean some states and obviously are way ahead in other states and all are way ahead in other states and all are way ahead in other states and all that kind of stuff but I think just the that kind of stuff but I think just the that kind of stuff but I think just the kids coming out of that it's not like kids coming out of that it's not like kids coming out of that it's not like they recovered quickly and so they're they recovered quickly and so they're they recovered quickly and so they're still recovering yeah yeah and I mean no still recovering yeah yeah and I mean no still recovering yeah yeah and I mean no go ahead I was gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna go ahead I was gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna go ahead I was gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna get a little bit more practical on this get a little bit more practical on this get a little bit more practical on this particular topic okay and I'm gonna I'm particular topic okay and I'm gonna I'm particular topic okay and I'm gonna I'm gonna get practical with a really weird gonna get practical with a really weird gonna get practical with a really weird scenario okay tonight in the middle of scenario okay tonight in the middle of scenario okay tonight in the middle of the night you wake up there's an angel the night you wake up there's an angel the night you wake up there's an angel in your room and the angel says Amy in your room and the angel says Amy in your room and the angel says Amy you're no longer gonna work with Kim and you're no longer gonna work with Kim and you're no longer gonna work with Kim and you're no longer working at the school you're no longer working at the school you're no longer working at the school you're going to be a church you're going to be a church you're going to be a church communications director okay knowing

communications director okay knowing communications director okay knowing everything that you know with all the everything that you know with all the everything that you know with all the things that you've just shared now you things that you've just shared now you things that you've just shared now you find yourself literally sitting in the find yourself literally sitting in the find yourself literally sitting in the seat of a communications director in a seat of a communications director in a seat of a communications director in a church how are you going to lead in your church how are you going to lead in your church how are you going to lead in your church lead up the leadership to to the church lead up the leadership to to the church lead up the leadership to to the leadership in your church to actually do leadership in your church to actually do leadership in your church to actually do what you just said what you just said what you just said um because what you said is is important um because what you said is is important um because what you said is is important and I think anyone and everyone who's and I think anyone and everyone who's and I think anyone and everyone who's listening to it they're all going to listening to it they're all going to listening to it they're all going to agree with you but being able to agree with you but being able to agree with you but being able to actually put legs to that is going to be actually put legs to that is going to be actually put legs to that is going to be much more complicated than just much more complicated than just much more complicated than just acknowledging that it's something that acknowledging that it's something that acknowledging that it's something that needs to happen needs to happen needs to happen yeah yeah yeah I would become as repetitious as I would become as repetitious as I would become as repetitious as possible about if then statements possible about if then statements possible about if then statements every time my pastor opened his mouth every time my pastor opened his mouth every time my pastor opened his mouth I'd say if that then what I'd say if that then what I'd say if that then what if that then what if that then what if that then what if then statements are that's like a if then statements are that's like a if then statements are that's like a math concept but but that is math concept but but that is math concept but but that is that is what people need they need to that is what people need they need to that is what people need they need to see then what so what why does this see then what so what why does this see then what so what why does this matter how is this actually going to matter how is this actually going to matter how is this actually going to help my life help my life help my life and I think as a communications director and I think as a communications director and I think as a communications director structuring every message as an if then structuring every message as an if then structuring every message as an if then statement statement statement as something that literally connects to as something that literally connects to as something that literally connects to this to a solution to a problem this to a solution to a problem this to a solution to a problem has to be every sermon it has to be has to be every sermon it has to be has to be every sermon it has to be every promotion it has to be every every promotion it has to be every every promotion it has to be every social media post it has to be every social media post it has to be every social media post it has to be every um every host spot from stage if you um every host spot from stage if you um every host spot from stage if you come to this women's retreat then come to this women's retreat then come to this women's retreat then you will make two new friends and we're you will make two new friends and we're you will make two new friends and we're all lonely and so we can use some more

all lonely and so we can use some more all lonely and so we can use some more friends if you friends if you friends if you bring a dish to the potluck bring a dish to the potluck bring a dish to the potluck then we will give you free child care then we will give you free child care then we will give you free child care while you get some just time with other while you get some just time with other while you get some just time with other grown-ups you know if you hold a baby in grown-ups you know if you hold a baby in grown-ups you know if you hold a baby in the nursery and help serve the church the nursery and help serve the church the nursery and help serve the church then you are giving the gift to young then you are giving the gift to young then you are giving the gift to young parents to go and be able to listen to parents to go and be able to listen to parents to go and be able to listen to the message in the in the service and the message in the in the service and the message in the in the service and possibly possibly possibly disrupting like generational disrupting like generational disrupting like generational things that have been holding this things that have been holding this things that have been holding this family back for years and years and family back for years and years and family back for years and years and years years years um you have to give purpose to every um you have to give purpose to every um you have to give purpose to every action it's not just about showing up action it's not just about showing up action it's not just about showing up it's about what you're going to get from it's about what you're going to get from it's about what you're going to get from it and a lot of church people will it and a lot of church people will it and a lot of church people will bemoan that like you show up for others bemoan that like you show up for others bemoan that like you show up for others not for yourself not for yourself not for yourself but not all of those if statements were but not all of those if statements were but not all of those if statements were self-centered you know holding a baby in self-centered you know holding a baby in self-centered you know holding a baby in the nursery is not a self-centered the nursery is not a self-centered the nursery is not a self-centered offense statement but you point to the offense statement but you point to the offense statement but you point to the purpose behind that I think any purpose behind that I think any purpose behind that I think any communication that doesn't point in that communication that doesn't point in that communication that doesn't point in that direction is just white noise that's direction is just white noise that's direction is just white noise that's clutter clutter clutter um um um I love that and if you invite your I love that and if you invite your I love that and if you invite your friend and bring him to church then friend and bring him to church then friend and bring him to church then you'll see God do some amazing things you'll see God do some amazing things you'll see God do some amazing things that's right that's love that okay just so you know I'm love that okay just so you know I'm satisfied with that answer so we can satisfied with that answer so we can satisfied with that answer so we can move on Jason you want to move on I was move on Jason you want to move on I was move on Jason you want to move on I was satisfied if that happens let me know satisfied if that happens let me know satisfied if that happens let me know um the angel yeah um the angel yeah um the angel yeah okay let's okay let's okay let's let's we have a couple more things that let's we have a couple more things that let's we have a couple more things that we're running out of time um I'm kind of we're running out of time um I'm kind of we're running out of time um I'm kind of curious about the obstacles you know

curious about the obstacles you know curious about the obstacles you know those common obstacles those common obstacles those common obstacles um that churches you know go through um that churches you know go through um that churches you know go through that you put together a few few ideas that you put together a few few ideas that you put together a few few ideas there yeah there yeah there yeah I think common the most common obstacle I think common the most common obstacle I think common the most common obstacle that I encounter with church staffs I that I encounter with church staffs I that I encounter with church staffs I mean especially communication mean especially communication mean especially communication Specialists but I think anyone can fall Specialists but I think anyone can fall Specialists but I think anyone can fall you know victim to this is over over you know victim to this is over over you know victim to this is over over performance and burnout I think that performance and burnout I think that performance and burnout I think that weirdly weirdly weirdly um we try to we see a bunch of unhappy um we try to we see a bunch of unhappy um we try to we see a bunch of unhappy people you know church has become this people you know church has become this people you know church has become this hospital for sad people over these last hospital for sad people over these last hospital for sad people over these last few years there's been a lot of struggle few years there's been a lot of struggle few years there's been a lot of struggle and we're all these like fantastic and we're all these like fantastic and we're all these like fantastic um marthas um marthas um marthas for all these really helpful people just for all these really helpful people just for all these really helpful people just like oh we'll throw a celebration over like oh we'll throw a celebration over like oh we'll throw a celebration over here and we'll focus on the growth and here and we'll focus on the growth and here and we'll focus on the growth and goodness going over here and then goodness going over here and then goodness going over here and then there'll be an opportunity to serve over there'll be an opportunity to serve over there'll be an opportunity to serve over here and there'll be a party this time here and there'll be a party this time here and there'll be a party this time and a celebration this time and all this and a celebration this time and all this and a celebration this time and all this group and that group group and that group group and that group and I often will say two churches or and I often will say two churches or and I often will say two churches or like two humans in my life because I like two humans in my life because I like two humans in my life because I think this is a human problem think this is a human problem think this is a human problem make some space and then resist don't make some space and then resist don't make some space and then resist don't fill it make some space and don't fill fill it make some space and don't fill fill it make some space and don't fill it what happens if you do fewer things it what happens if you do fewer things it what happens if you do fewer things and wait for people to tell you what and wait for people to tell you what and wait for people to tell you what their needs are so then you can be there their needs are so then you can be there their needs are so then you can be there to meet those needs to meet those needs to meet those needs not with a bunch of noise or a bunch of not with a bunch of noise or a bunch of not with a bunch of noise or a bunch of things that only kind of have to get things that only kind of have to get things that only kind of have to get there that are going to wind up there that are going to wind up there that are going to wind up disappointing people but

disappointing people but disappointing people but clear some space for the people around clear some space for the people around clear some space for the people around you to tell you what they need and then you to tell you what they need and then you to tell you what they need and then meet that need meet that need meet that need um first of all you'll be less burnt out um first of all you'll be less burnt out um first of all you'll be less burnt out but you'll you'll also fail less not but you'll you'll also fail less not but you'll you'll also fail less not just because you're doing less but just because you're doing less but just because you're doing less but because you actually get that input that because you actually get that input that because you actually get that input that you need to actually be more effective I'm going to share just a personal I'm going to share just a personal little story as it relates to that little story as it relates to that little story as it relates to that because I I think because I I think because I I think there's somebody watching or listening there's somebody watching or listening there's somebody watching or listening to this podcast that will be able to to this podcast that will be able to to this podcast that will be able to relate to my story and what you just relate to my story and what you just relate to my story and what you just said and um my first Ministry role was said and um my first Ministry role was said and um my first Ministry role was as a communication I'm sorry a worship as a communication I'm sorry a worship as a communication I'm sorry a worship pastor and creative director in a church pastor and creative director in a church pastor and creative director in a church um I've never actually been a um I've never actually been a um I've never actually been a communications director at a church I communications director at a church I communications director at a church I was worship Pastor creative director and was worship Pastor creative director and was worship Pastor creative director and I had I had a season of burnout I didn't I had I had a season of burnout I didn't I had I had a season of burnout I didn't realize what it was when it was realize what it was when it was realize what it was when it was happening reflecting on it years later I happening reflecting on it years later I happening reflecting on it years later I realized that I had hit a wall but realized that I had hit a wall but realized that I had hit a wall but I remember I remember I remember one season uh in our early married life one season uh in our early married life one season uh in our early married life with my wife we had three neighbors that with my wife we had three neighbors that with my wife we had three neighbors that had three tragedies uh we had a son that had three tragedies uh we had a son that had three tragedies uh we had a son that a lady whose son attempted suicide we a lady whose son attempted suicide we a lady whose son attempted suicide we had a lady whose husband passed away and had a lady whose husband passed away and had a lady whose husband passed away and we had a family whose son had a tumor on we had a family whose son had a tumor on we had a family whose son had a tumor on his brain and I remember my wife looking his brain and I remember my wife looking his brain and I remember my wife looking at me one day when we got in our car on at me one day when we got in our car on at me one day when we got in our car on our way to the church building for yet our way to the church building for yet our way to the church building for yet one more event that the church was doing one more event that the church was doing one more event that the church was doing and she looked at me with tears in her

and she looked at me with tears in her and she looked at me with tears in her eyes and said I'm so sick and tired of eyes and said I'm so sick and tired of eyes and said I'm so sick and tired of going to church we don't have time to be going to church we don't have time to be going to church we don't have time to be church for the people right here in our church for the people right here in our church for the people right here in our neighborhood yeah it was an incredibly neighborhood yeah it was an incredibly neighborhood yeah it was an incredibly convicting moment for me as a church convicting moment for me as a church convicting moment for me as a church leader who was actually one of the leader who was actually one of the leader who was actually one of the people responsible for so much of that people responsible for so much of that people responsible for so much of that programming I didn't realize what it was programming I didn't realize what it was programming I didn't realize what it was doing to my soul I didn't realize what doing to my soul I didn't realize what doing to my soul I didn't realize what it was doing to my life I didn't realize it was doing to my life I didn't realize it was doing to my life I didn't realize what it was doing to my wife and I and what it was doing to my wife and I and what it was doing to my wife and I and until that moment I didn't realize how until that moment I didn't realize how until that moment I didn't realize how much it was separate me from where God much it was separate me from where God much it was separate me from where God had put me the neighbors God had given had put me the neighbors God had given had put me the neighbors God had given me and the opportunity that I had to me and the opportunity that I had to me and the opportunity that I had to actually be Jesus incarnate uh with skin actually be Jesus incarnate uh with skin actually be Jesus incarnate uh with skin on with those people right there in my on with those people right there in my on with those people right there in my own neighborhood so own neighborhood so own neighborhood so um we have worked really diligently as a um we have worked really diligently as a um we have worked really diligently as a family as a couple as a family since family as a couple as a family since family as a couple as a family since then to not over program ourselves and then to not over program ourselves and then to not over program ourselves and even as a church leader I've been very even as a church leader I've been very even as a church leader I've been very very self-conscious about that but I as very self-conscious about that but I as very self-conscious about that but I as you said that that was the first thing you said that that was the first thing you said that that was the first thing that came to my mind and I just thought that came to my mind and I just thought that came to my mind and I just thought I wanted to share that because I it was I wanted to share that because I it was I wanted to share that because I it was such a personal deep life-changing such a personal deep life-changing such a personal deep life-changing experience for us if I can save somebody experience for us if I can save somebody experience for us if I can save somebody else from having to experience what we else from having to experience what we else from having to experience what we did or to just acknowledge where they did or to just acknowledge where they did or to just acknowledge where they are and realize that change needs to are and realize that change needs to are and realize that change needs to happen it's too easy to over program in happen it's too easy to over program in happen it's too easy to over program in the church yeah and over communication the church yeah and over communication the church yeah and over communication is a thing too I think that is a thing too I think that is a thing too I think that communications director Specialists communications director Specialists communications director Specialists coordinators coordinators coordinators are I mean you you get into that role are I mean you you get into that role are I mean you you get into that role because you're good at filling space because you're good at filling space because you're good at filling space you're good at writing stuff you're good you're good at writing stuff you're good you're good at writing stuff you're good at saying stuff you're good at stepping

at saying stuff you're good at stepping at saying stuff you're good at stepping on stage and giving a promotion or an on stage and giving a promotion or an on stage and giving a promotion or an announcement announcement announcement um you're not good at leaving empty um you're not good at leaving empty um you're not good at leaving empty space probably it's hard to be good at space probably it's hard to be good at space probably it's hard to be good at both things and so that's a both things and so that's a both things and so that's a counter-intuitive call I think to counter-intuitive call I think to counter-intuitive call I think to Communications people to Communications people to Communications people to be slower to speak actually be slower to speak actually be slower to speak actually um I also think kind of like a related um I also think kind of like a related um I also think kind of like a related obstacle that a lot of communications obstacle that a lot of communications obstacle that a lot of communications directors especially tired ones directors especially tired ones directors especially tired ones especially understaffed ones bump up especially understaffed ones bump up especially understaffed ones bump up against is misdefining um Communications for promotion um Communications for promotion and this is something that chem has has and this is something that chem has has and this is something that chem has has communicated beautifully in her book and communicated beautifully in her book and communicated beautifully in her book and who who who um has helped me really see this clearly um has helped me really see this clearly um has helped me really see this clearly even like as I reflect back on my time even like as I reflect back on my time even like as I reflect back on my time as a church communications director is as a church communications director is as a church communications director is communication sometimes is everything communication sometimes is everything communication sometimes is everything but the words but the words but the words communication is not always promotions communication is not always promotions communication is not always promotions we talk about Communications as being we talk about Communications as being we talk about Communications as being like the circulatory system like the circulatory system like the circulatory system of your heartbeat your identity why you of your heartbeat your identity why you of your heartbeat your identity why you exist if your heart you know is like exist if your heart you know is like exist if your heart you know is like your brand your heartbeat is who you are your brand your heartbeat is who you are your brand your heartbeat is who you are and your DNA as a church your and your DNA as a church your and your DNA as a church your Communications is what pumps that DNA Communications is what pumps that DNA Communications is what pumps that DNA into every other part of the church body into every other part of the church body into every other part of the church body Ministry congregation Ministry congregation Ministry congregation and a body can live without promotions

and a body can live without promotions and a body can live without promotions that's external stuff that's external stuff that's external stuff but a body can't live without pumping but a body can't live without pumping but a body can't live without pumping that that that that that that heartbeat heartbeat heartbeat through the rest of the body through the rest of the body through the rest of the body so Church Communications actually isn't so Church Communications actually isn't so Church Communications actually isn't so much and even Church marketing isn't so much and even Church marketing isn't so much and even Church marketing isn't so much so much so much um telling people where to park for the um telling people where to park for the um telling people where to park for the Easter Service Easter Service Easter Service Church Communications is helping people Church Communications is helping people Church Communications is helping people see themselves see themselves see themselves in this like larger organism that's in this like larger organism that's in this like larger organism that's doing holy stuff that is doing holy stuff that is doing holy stuff that is part of Christ that is Christ's literal part of Christ that is Christ's literal part of Christ that is Christ's literal body body body um and then in your special unique kind um and then in your special unique kind um and then in your special unique kind of way Communications is sometimes of way Communications is sometimes of way Communications is sometimes everything other than the words it's how everything other than the words it's how everything other than the words it's how you set up the space it's whether there you set up the space it's whether there you set up the space it's whether there are empty seats at the table ready to be are empty seats at the table ready to be are empty seats at the table ready to be filled it's whether there's space filled it's whether there's space filled it's whether there's space so I think Communications folks in so I think Communications folks in so I think Communications folks in churches are making a huge mistake churches are making a huge mistake churches are making a huge mistake they're miscommunicating they're tone they're miscommunicating they're tone they're miscommunicating they're tone deaf when they're over communicating deaf when they're over communicating deaf when they're over communicating over programming and just sort of like over programming and just sort of like over programming and just sort of like shouting information out that are like shouting information out that are like shouting information out that are like details about parking and that's why you details about parking and that's why you details about parking and that's why you have people show up saying I never know have people show up saying I never know have people show up saying I never know what's going on even though you've sent what's going on even though you've sent what's going on even though you've sent 400 emails with all the details 400 emails with all the details 400 emails with all the details because they don't need you to remind because they don't need you to remind because they don't need you to remind them where to park again they need to them where to park again they need to them where to park again they need to they need to experience the reason they they need to experience the reason they they need to experience the reason they would ever want to show up in the first would ever want to show up in the first would ever want to show up in the first place that's Church communication

place that's Church communication place that's Church communication yeah and how it enter and how it um yeah and how it enter and how it um yeah and how it enter and how it um right helps you and your family yourself right helps you and your family yourself right helps you and your family yourself right and you know you go back to the right and you know you go back to the right and you know you go back to the story brand story brand story brand died where you want to be the hero of died where you want to be the hero of died where you want to be the hero of your own story the church is there to your own story the church is there to your own story the church is there to guide you right if then statements right guide you right if then statements right guide you right if then statements right yeah not exactly how-to statements this yeah not exactly how-to statements this yeah not exactly how-to statements this is not the how-to statements are that's is not the how-to statements are that's is not the how-to statements are that's just gonna go in one ear and out the just gonna go in one ear and out the just gonna go in one ear and out the other if then statements that's a other if then statements that's a other if then statements that's a transformation story even if the little transformation story even if the little transformation story even if the little one and that's the whole point of what one and that's the whole point of what one and that's the whole point of what churches are doing is transformation so churches are doing is transformation so churches are doing is transformation so yeah so I think like if that's my thesis yeah so I think like if that's my thesis yeah so I think like if that's my thesis statement if then hey we are we are we are at the end of hey we are we are we are at the end of our time uh that's actually a great our time uh that's actually a great our time uh that's actually a great place I think for us to land but I do place I think for us to land but I do place I think for us to land but I do want to give you Amy a parting shot if want to give you Amy a parting shot if want to give you Amy a parting shot if there's any one last thing one last there's any one last thing one last there's any one last thing one last nugget other than if then that you want nugget other than if then that you want nugget other than if then that you want to leave with our listeners our viewers to leave with our listeners our viewers to leave with our listeners our viewers um anything else that you want to share um anything else that you want to share um anything else that you want to share um just encouragement I think that there um just encouragement I think that there um just encouragement I think that there is there is no such thing as a is there is no such thing as a is there is no such thing as a communications director at a church who communications director at a church who communications director at a church who isn't um overwhelmed and burnt out to isn't um overwhelmed and burnt out to isn't um overwhelmed and burnt out to some degree and number one you're not some degree and number one you're not some degree and number one you're not alone and number two there's not no way alone and number two there's not no way alone and number two there's not no way out I think that just take to heart this out I think that just take to heart this out I think that just take to heart this idea that maybe it's the space you leave idea that maybe it's the space you leave idea that maybe it's the space you leave that communicates the most depth

that communicates the most depth that communicates the most depth um and that doesn't mean stop showing up um and that doesn't mean stop showing up um and that doesn't mean stop showing up to work by the way that just means being to work by the way that just means being to work by the way that just means being a little bit more careful about what a little bit more careful about what a little bit more careful about what space you're feeling and what space space you're feeling and what space space you're feeling and what space you're leaving open for God to do some you're leaving open for God to do some you're leaving open for God to do some work in maybe through other people work in maybe through other people work in maybe through other people um but that it can get better you're um but that it can get better you're um but that it can get better you're it's not just a terrible job you know it it's not just a terrible job you know it it's not just a terrible job you know it is a great job and it is an important is a great job and it is an important is a great job and it is an important job and it is in some ways one of the job and it is in some ways one of the job and it is in some ways one of the most essential jobs in in the church and most essential jobs in in the church and most essential jobs in in the church and um there are ways to make it um there are ways to make it um there are ways to make it work if you're tired there are ways work if you're tired there are ways work if you're tired there are ways there's no doubt it's complex there there's no doubt it's complex there there's no doubt it's complex there there's no doubt that it's complex and there's no doubt that it's complex and there's no doubt that it's complex and it's not the same in any two churches it's not the same in any two churches it's not the same in any two churches and that's one of the things that makes and that's one of the things that makes and that's one of the things that makes it a very unique role in the local it a very unique role in the local it a very unique role in the local church you know a guy who serves in church you know a guy who serves in church you know a guy who serves in student Ministry or a gal who is a student Ministry or a gal who is a student Ministry or a gal who is a children's ministry director a lot of children's ministry director a lot of children's ministry director a lot of times you can move from one church and times you can move from one church and times you can move from one church and one environment to another and you know one environment to another and you know one environment to another and you know a significant percentage of what you're a significant percentage of what you're a significant percentage of what you're doing is transferable doing is transferable doing is transferable um in terms of the way that you're um in terms of the way that you're um in terms of the way that you're reaching people in the way you're reaching people in the way you're reaching people in the way you're discipling people but every discipling people but every discipling people but every Communications is really Communications is really Communications is really it's so deeply tied to the brand of the it's so deeply tied to the brand of the it's so deeply tied to the brand of the church the ethos of the church the church the ethos of the church the church the ethos of the church the culture and the values of the church and culture and the values of the church and culture and the values of the church and in every different environment it takes in every different environment it takes in every different environment it takes on a different shape and it requires a on a different shape and it requires a on a different shape and it requires a different level some of the some of the different level some of the some of the different level some of the some of the skill sets are obviously basic skill skill sets are obviously basic skill skill sets are obviously basic skill sets but then there's also some some sets but then there's also some some sets but then there's also some some Nuance there that uh is it has to be Nuance there that uh is it has to be Nuance there that uh is it has to be adaptable uh from from Context to adaptable uh from from Context to adaptable uh from from Context to context so it isn't it isn't easy and we

context so it isn't it isn't easy and we context so it isn't it isn't easy and we we love the communications directors we love the communications directors we love the communications directors that we get to work with they're all that we get to work with they're all that we get to work with they're all different you know I six Zoom calls different you know I six Zoom calls different you know I six Zoom calls today with six different Communications today with six different Communications today with six different Communications directors sticks completely different directors sticks completely different directors sticks completely different churches with six completely different churches with six completely different churches with six completely different um sets of needs and challenges to help um sets of needs and challenges to help um sets of needs and challenges to help them overcome so what I love about what them overcome so what I love about what them overcome so what I love about what I get to do I know Jason feels the same I get to do I know Jason feels the same I get to do I know Jason feels the same way way way um and uh and I'm sure that you do as um and uh and I'm sure that you do as um and uh and I'm sure that you do as well and speaking of which you do get a well and speaking of which you do get a well and speaking of which you do get a chance to work with a lot of churches if chance to work with a lot of churches if chance to work with a lot of churches if some of our listeners want to connect some of our listeners want to connect some of our listeners want to connect with you if they want to find out more with you if they want to find out more with you if they want to find out more about what you and the team at Kim and about what you and the team at Kim and about what you and the team at Kim and Company do uh how can they how can they Company do uh how can they how can they Company do uh how can they how can they find you find you find you we would love to invite them to find us we would love to invite them to find us we would love to invite them to find us on our website at on our website at on our website at www.commeyer.com www.commeyer.com www.commeyer.com Fastpass okay and you make it onto a Fastpass okay and you make it onto a Fastpass okay and you make it onto a priority list that will get a phone call priority list that will get a phone call priority list that will get a phone call from us and and maybe some some good from us and and maybe some some good from us and and maybe some some good advice along the way but we would love advice along the way but we would love advice along the way but we would love to meet people and it's chem Kem to meet people and it's chem Kem to meet people and it's chem Kem yep Meyer m-e-y-e-r Amy thanks so much for joining us on the Amy thanks so much for joining us on the podcast today it's been great to get to podcast today it's been great to get to podcast today it's been great to get to know you better and uh just appreciate know you better and uh just appreciate know you better and uh just appreciate all your insights I'm confident that our all your insights I'm confident that our all your insights I'm confident that our listeners our viewers have learned listeners our viewers have learned listeners our viewers have learned something today that they can put to something today that they can put to something today that they can put to practice this week practice this week practice this week thank you thanks for having me this was thank you thanks for having me this was thank you thanks for having me this was fun