Church Communications Summer To-Do List | Mark MacDonald

[Music] [Music] effective communication rises and falls effective communication rises and falls effective communication rises and falls and how well you know your audience and and how well you know your audience and and how well you know your audience and and oftentimes we get so wrapped up in and oftentimes we get so wrapped up in and oftentimes we get so wrapped up in the busy times with who the congregation the busy times with who the congregation the busy times with who the congregation is is is but god's placed your congregation into but god's placed your congregation into but god's placed your congregation into a community it's it's the feeder ground a community it's it's the feeder ground a community it's it's the feeder ground it's the is the area it's the is the area it's the is the area uh that uh that uh that that you want to to fall in love with that you want to to fall in love with that you want to to fall in love with and be known for love in that community and be known for love in that community and be known for love in that community so so get out into the community and so so get out into the community and so so get out into the community and listen listen listen this is the missional marketing podcast this is the missional marketing podcast this is the missional marketing podcast i'm bart blair joined by jason hamrock i'm bart blair joined by jason hamrock i'm bart blair joined by jason hamrock your coaches your coaches your coaches at missional marketing that's what we do at missional marketing that's what we do at missional marketing that's what we do we coach churches every day we spend we coach churches every day we spend we coach churches every day we spend lots of time on zoom with church leaders lots of time on zoom with church leaders lots of time on zoom with church leaders communications directors pastors communications directors pastors communications directors pastors executive pastors you name it we spend a executive pastors you name it we spend a executive pastors you name it we spend a lot of time on zoom coaching people we lot of time on zoom coaching people we lot of time on zoom coaching people we also spend time on zoom recording also spend time on zoom recording also spend time on zoom recording podcasts we've got a great podcast for podcasts we've got a great podcast for podcasts we've got a great podcast for you today our friend mark mcdonald jason you today our friend mark mcdonald jason you today our friend mark mcdonald jason why don't you tf this episode yeah you why don't you tf this episode yeah you why don't you tf this episode yeah you guys probably know mark he was on the guys probably know mark he was on the guys probably know mark he was on the show earlier um he is the founder of show earlier um he is the founder of show earlier um he is the founder of being known for something and that's a being known for something and that's a being known for something and that's a church branding agency church branding agency church branding agency uh mark has uh he's an author and he uh mark has uh he's an author and he uh mark has uh he's an author and he he's a consultant uh he's he's a good he's a consultant uh he's he's a good he's a consultant uh he's he's a good friend friend friend and so we uh we we talked with march and so we uh we we talked with march and so we uh we we talked with march today because we wanted some insight today because we wanted some insight today because we wanted some insight it's like we're coming up to the summer it's like we're coming up to the summer it's like we're coming up to the summer you know it's it's in may here and so you know it's it's in may here and so you know it's it's in may here and so every church we kind of come after off every church we kind of come after off every church we kind of come after off of easter and you kind of go of easter and you kind of go of easter and you kind of go time to take a break well we're going to

time to take a break well we're going to time to take a break well we're going to challenge that and so we cover five challenge that and so we cover five challenge that and so we cover five steps to to really get ahead things you steps to to really get ahead things you steps to to really get ahead things you can be doing right now that's gonna have can be doing right now that's gonna have can be doing right now that's gonna have huge impact huge impact huge impact into your ministry into your church and into your ministry into your church and into your ministry into your church and so we dive into that so we dive into that so we dive into that it's a great conversation you're gonna it's a great conversation you're gonna it's a great conversation you're gonna really enjoy it really enjoy it really enjoy it mark is really sharp um if you didn't mark is really sharp um if you didn't mark is really sharp um if you didn't see or hear the uh last time he was on see or hear the uh last time he was on see or hear the uh last time he was on our show make sure that you check that our show make sure that you check that our show make sure that you check that out we'll have that in the show notes uh out we'll have that in the show notes uh out we'll have that in the show notes uh it's been one of our more popular uh it's been one of our more popular uh it's been one of our more popular uh episodes uh i think it was it was about episodes uh i think it was it was about episodes uh i think it was it was about brand i think the title of it if i brand i think the title of it if i brand i think the title of it if i recall was uh your your church low your recall was uh your your church low your recall was uh your your church low your low your church brand is more than your low your church brand is more than your low your church brand is more than your logo mark really likes to go deep with a logo mark really likes to go deep with a logo mark really likes to go deep with a church's identity in its community being church's identity in its community being church's identity in its community being more than just the visual identity and i more than just the visual identity and i more than just the visual identity and i really appreciate uh his heart on this really appreciate uh his heart on this really appreciate uh his heart on this whole thing and this was a this was a whole thing and this was a this was a whole thing and this was a this was a really cool conversation so we believe really cool conversation so we believe really cool conversation so we believe that you will benefit from this today that you will benefit from this today that you will benefit from this today and if you do make sure that you share and if you do make sure that you share and if you do make sure that you share it with somebody share it on the socials it with somebody share it on the socials it with somebody share it on the socials ping it to a friend via email or text ping it to a friend via email or text ping it to a friend via email or text message or whatever you think would be message or whatever you think would be message or whatever you think would be uh useful and helpful for them uh we uh useful and helpful for them uh we uh useful and helpful for them uh we would love for more and more people to would love for more and more people to would love for more and more people to find this content especially if you're find this content especially if you're find this content especially if you're finding it helpful and useful as you finding it helpful and useful as you finding it helpful and useful as you lead in your church uh if you're not lead in your church uh if you're not lead in your church uh if you're not subscribed uh on the podcast channel subscribed uh on the podcast channel subscribed uh on the podcast channel that you listen to this to or on our that you listen to this to or on our that you listen to this to or on our youtube channel make sure that you youtube channel make sure that you youtube channel make sure that you subscribe and uh you won't miss any subscribe and uh you won't miss any subscribe and uh you won't miss any other of our awesome upcoming episodes other of our awesome upcoming episodes other of our awesome upcoming episodes uh that's all i got jason thanks so much uh that's all i got jason thanks so much uh that's all i got jason thanks so much for hanging out with me today and uh for hanging out with me today and uh for hanging out with me today and uh here's our interview with mark mcdonald here's our interview with mark mcdonald here's our interview with mark mcdonald from be known for something from be known for something from be known for something mark mcdonald thanks so much for joining

mark mcdonald thanks so much for joining mark mcdonald thanks so much for joining jason and me on the podcast today we're jason and me on the podcast today we're jason and me on the podcast today we're so glad to have you back on the show so glad to have you back on the show so glad to have you back on the show thank you so much for having me back thank you so much for having me back thank you so much for having me back like people who like people who like people who who have me once it's understandable but who have me once it's understandable but who have me once it's understandable but the second time seriously the second time seriously the second time seriously no well we really didn't have much no well we really didn't have much no well we really didn't have much choice um because after after your first choice um because after after your first choice um because after after your first time on the show um time on the show um time on the show um the video version of this podcast your the video version of this podcast your the video version of this podcast your episode is the most episode is the most episode is the most watched watched watched podcast episode on our youtube channel podcast episode on our youtube channel podcast episode on our youtube channel if you can believe that if you can believe that if you can believe that and where is ben stapley jason where and where is ben stapley jason where and where is ben stapley jason where does it is not even close like he's so does it is not even close like he's so does it is not even close like he's so far down i mean there's quite a few far down i mean there's quite a few far down i mean there's quite a few people in between him and mark just people in between him and mark just people in between him and mark just gonna say that wow and like everything gonna say that wow and like everything gonna say that wow and like everything that pops into my mind right now i can't that pops into my mind right now i can't that pops into my mind right now i can't really say out loud but we'll talk about really say out loud but we'll talk about really say out loud but we'll talk about that afterwards okay and now we'll know that afterwards okay and now we'll know that afterwards okay and now we'll know if ben stapley is actually a fan of the if ben stapley is actually a fan of the if ben stapley is actually a fan of the show or not uh we know he's a fan of show or not uh we know he's a fan of show or not uh we know he's a fan of mark mcdonald's he's one of mark mark mcdonald's he's one of mark mark mcdonald's he's one of mark mcdonnell's biggest fans and we're big mcdonnell's biggest fans and we're big mcdonnell's biggest fans and we're big fans too mark for our fans or our fans too mark for our fans or our fans too mark for our fans or our friends our listeners and those who are friends our listeners and those who are friends our listeners and those who are viewing on our youtube channel um who viewing on our youtube channel um who viewing on our youtube channel um who might have missed the last episode or might have missed the last episode or might have missed the last episode or who might not know who you are why don't who might not know who you are why don't who might not know who you are why don't you uh just start by giving us a little you uh just start by giving us a little you uh just start by giving us a little bit of background share a little bit of bit of background share a little bit of bit of background share a little bit of your story how you ended up in ministry your story how you ended up in ministry your story how you ended up in ministry and and how you ended up doing what and and how you ended up doing what and and how you ended up doing what you're doing today you're doing today you're doing today well bart i i mean i just can't believe well bart i i mean i just can't believe well bart i i mean i just can't believe i get to do what i get to do i i'm a i get to do what i get to do i i'm a i get to do what i get to do i i'm a little kid from east coast canada from little kid from east coast canada from little kid from east coast canada from the maritime provinces new brunswick um the maritime provinces new brunswick um the maritime provinces new brunswick um and uh and i mean i grew up in and uh and i mean i grew up in and uh and i mean i grew up in you know large cities of new brunswick

you know large cities of new brunswick you know large cities of new brunswick which aren't really all that large which aren't really all that large which aren't really all that large and and all along i just kept thinking and and all along i just kept thinking and and all along i just kept thinking like how would god ever use me like how would god ever use me like how would god ever use me and i i've always been you know everyone and i i've always been you know everyone and i i've always been you know everyone always says to me so what are you known always says to me so what are you known always says to me so what are you known for well i want to be known for being for well i want to be known for being for well i want to be known for being faithful and and god just opened up door faithful and and god just opened up door faithful and and god just opened up door after door after door after door i ended up as senior creative director i ended up as senior creative director i ended up as senior creative director for one of eastern canada's largest ad for one of eastern canada's largest ad for one of eastern canada's largest ad agencies agencies agencies and then from that we had the and then from that we had the and then from that we had the opportunity to opportunity to opportunity to to to to move to winston-salem north carolina set move to winston-salem north carolina set move to winston-salem north carolina set up an agency for churches um and then up an agency for churches um and then up an agency for churches um and then that that turned into be known for that that turned into be known for that that turned into be known for something agency something agency something agency and and really and and really and and really um when i look back at the way that that um when i look back at the way that that um when i look back at the way that that unfolded you know being the marketing unfolded you know being the marketing unfolded you know being the marketing arm for for several church uh you know arm for for several church uh you know arm for for several church uh you know large networks um they they propelled me large networks um they they propelled me large networks um they they propelled me kind of to the the conference stage and kind of to the the conference stage and kind of to the the conference stage and and i mean it just became fun and i mean it just became fun and i mean it just became fun but the conferences started saying so but the conferences started saying so but the conferences started saying so would you at least write some of this would you at least write some of this would you at least write some of this stuff so i've written over 800 magazine stuff so i've written over 800 magazine stuff so i've written over 800 magazine articles that have been published and articles that have been published and articles that have been published and then from that i wrote the best-selling then from that i wrote the best-selling then from that i wrote the best-selling book be known for something which is book be known for something which is book be known for something which is really the book on that everyone should really the book on that everyone should really the book on that everyone should read about church branding read about church branding read about church branding and then and then and then uh moved from winston-salem to uh moved from winston-salem to uh moved from winston-salem to jacksonville florida where i was the jacksonville florida where i was the jacksonville florida where i was the strategic communications catalyst for strategic communications catalyst for strategic communications catalyst for the florida baptist convention there are the florida baptist convention there are the florida baptist convention there are 3 000 churches and then i'm also the

3 000 churches and then i'm also the 3 000 churches and then i'm also the executive director for center for church executive director for center for church executive director for center for church communication which influences about 10 communication which influences about 10 communication which influences about 10 000 churches across the country 000 churches across the country 000 churches across the country i i can't believe i get to do what i get i i can't believe i get to do what i get i i can't believe i get to do what i get to do to do to do i know it's it's uh it's ministry but i know it's it's uh it's ministry but i know it's it's uh it's ministry but it's like it's like it's like it's just it's joyful you know because it's just it's joyful you know because it's just it's joyful you know because you get you you're in your sweet spot you get you you're in your sweet spot you get you you're in your sweet spot right god's gifted you with specific right god's gifted you with specific right god's gifted you with specific tools and gifts and you're using those tools and gifts and you're using those tools and gifts and you're using those for for his purposes and glory so it's for for his purposes and glory so it's for for his purposes and glory so it's pretty cool well that's what i mean it's pretty cool well that's what i mean it's pretty cool well that's what i mean it's really what we preach so i i try to really what we preach so i i try to really what we preach so i i try to you know if if it comes out of my mouth you know if if it comes out of my mouth you know if if it comes out of my mouth i try to do it myself and uh and i try to do it myself and uh and i try to do it myself and uh and sometimes after i've said things out sometimes after i've said things out sometimes after i've said things out loud i think oh how am i gonna do that loud i think oh how am i gonna do that loud i think oh how am i gonna do that but uh but i really do try to but uh but i really do try to but uh but i really do try to you know stay out of the hypocrite zone you know stay out of the hypocrite zone you know stay out of the hypocrite zone yeah yeah yeah well let's dive into some content um so well let's dive into some content um so well let's dive into some content um so uh some questions for you as you as both uh some questions for you as you as both uh some questions for you as you as both of you know because you have worked in a of you know because you have worked in a of you know because you have worked in a church i worked at a church our church i worked at a church our church i worked at a church our listeners are our likely church staff listeners are our likely church staff listeners are our likely church staff chur we go through seasons right every chur we go through seasons right every chur we go through seasons right every throughout the year there's just throughout the year there's just throughout the year there's just different seasons we move into as a as a different seasons we move into as a as a different seasons we move into as a as a church and as a ministry we're staring church and as a ministry we're staring church and as a ministry we're staring at summer at summer at summer it's right in front of us and as you it's right in front of us and as you it's right in front of us and as you know we can kind of get into that well know we can kind of get into that well know we can kind of get into that well whatever we did last summer we're just whatever we did last summer we're just whatever we did last summer we're just going to repeat that and do it this going to repeat that and do it this going to repeat that and do it this summer and now that may not be too bad summer and now that may not be too bad summer and now that may not be too bad or you know maybe a good thing what are or you know maybe a good thing what are or you know maybe a good thing what are some things that we could do different some things that we could do different some things that we could do different uh what should we be thinking about i uh what should we be thinking about i uh what should we be thinking about i just want to kind of have open dialogue just want to kind of have open dialogue just want to kind of have open dialogue on you know what goes through your head on you know what goes through your head on you know what goes through your head when you think about what ministry when you think about what ministry when you think about what ministry should be doing this summer should be doing this summer should be doing this summer so

so so jason and bart i i feel like we should jason and bart i i feel like we should jason and bart i i feel like we should have been friends a lot longer uh and have been friends a lot longer uh and have been friends a lot longer uh and we've gotten you know a nice connection we've gotten you know a nice connection we've gotten you know a nice connection over the last couple years but i'm kind over the last couple years but i'm kind over the last couple years but i'm kind of interested of interested of interested because in in what you all do because in in what you all do because in in what you all do i mean there is a pace and and we i mean there is a pace and and we i mean there is a pace and and we oftentimes you know we're working with oftentimes you know we're working with oftentimes you know we're working with churches and and there's the busy time churches and and there's the busy time churches and and there's the busy time of the year like of the year like of the year like you know our work pretty much falls away you know our work pretty much falls away you know our work pretty much falls away at christmas time i mean no church ever at christmas time i mean no church ever at christmas time i mean no church ever calls us and says yes we would like an calls us and says yes we would like an calls us and says yes we would like an intensive coaching program right now intensive coaching program right now intensive coaching program right now because they're like no help and then it because they're like no help and then it because they're like no help and then it kind of it reaches oftentimes into kind of it reaches oftentimes into kind of it reaches oftentimes into mother's day mother's day mother's day where where where you know that that's a really big time you know that that's a really big time you know that that's a really big time of the year for for church people yeah of the year for for church people yeah of the year for for church people yeah but then but then but then but then but then but then summer somewhat turns into a lull like summer somewhat turns into a lull like summer somewhat turns into a lull like oh my goodness it's a breather time but oh my goodness it's a breather time but oh my goodness it's a breather time but how about you guys like what what do you how about you guys like what what do you how about you guys like what what do you all do all do all do in the summer that you can't do in the in the summer that you can't do in the in the summer that you can't do in the rest of the year rest of the year rest of the year well i think for us uh because we get to well i think for us uh because we get to well i think for us uh because we get to serve churches we're always given advice serve churches we're always given advice serve churches we're always given advice we coach them up on things they should we coach them up on things they should we coach them up on things they should be doing activities they should be doing be doing activities they should be doing be doing activities they should be doing that that that is it's probably it's probably a level is it's probably it's probably a level is it's probably it's probably a level or a layer underneath your current or a layer underneath your current or a layer underneath your current ministry things right you're probably ministry things right you're probably ministry things right you're probably getting ready for vbs and you're going getting ready for vbs and you're going getting ready for vbs and you're going to get ready for some kind of a back to to get ready for some kind of a back to to get ready for some kind of a back to you know back to school sort of back to you know back to school sort of back to you know back to school sort of back to church fall and then you move into the church fall and then you move into the church fall and then you move into the christian you know you have those christian you know you have those christian you know you have those seasons right well the things that we're seasons right well the things that we're seasons right well the things that we're kind of coaching churches up on

kind of coaching churches up on kind of coaching churches up on is how to is how to is how to build systems that allow you to continue build systems that allow you to continue build systems that allow you to continue to generate content that will generate to generate content that will generate to generate content that will generate more more more leads in terms of helping people that leads in terms of helping people that leads in terms of helping people that find you online so that you can kind of find you online so that you can kind of find you online so that you can kind of keep that that funnel going all the time keep that that funnel going all the time keep that that funnel going all the time and so and so and so it's kind of like looking at the it's kind of like looking at the it's kind of like looking at the churches what their pain point might be churches what their pain point might be churches what their pain point might be and their pain point is how do i pull and their pain point is how do i pull and their pain point is how do i pull off vbs that's not the pain point the off vbs that's not the pain point the off vbs that's not the pain point the pain point is how do i continue to get pain point is how do i continue to get pain point is how do i continue to get more people in seats and reach more more people in seats and reach more more people in seats and reach more people digitally in this you know people digitally in this you know people digitally in this you know post-covet new world we're living in post-covet new world we're living in post-covet new world we're living in what does that look like and so for us what does that look like and so for us what does that look like and so for us it's always trying to coach them on it's always trying to coach them on it's always trying to coach them on things they should be doing things they should be doing things they should be doing that again that's below the surface a that again that's below the surface a that again that's below the surface a little bit but has huge impact into little bit but has huge impact into little bit but has huge impact into how their church can grow how their church can grow how their church can grow when when when you know when somebody's looking for a you know when somebody's looking for a you know when somebody's looking for a church or they're looking for help with church or they're looking for help with church or they're looking for help with a felt need and they find your church ah a felt need and they find your church ah a felt need and they find your church ah jason you're so good at just like jason you're so good at just like jason you're so good at just like like sharing a little bit of what you like sharing a little bit of what you like sharing a little bit of what you have to offer with the church which i'm have to offer with the church which i'm have to offer with the church which i'm glad you got to do that but i was really glad you got to do that but i was really glad you got to do that but i was really talking about talking about talking about taking and pulling back the curtain even taking and pulling back the curtain even taking and pulling back the curtain even more what do you all do in your in your more what do you all do in your in your more what do you all do in your in your organization that you in the summer that organization that you in the summer that organization that you in the summer that you can't do in the rest of the year you can't do in the rest of the year you can't do in the rest of the year oh oh oh strategize plan strategize plan strategize plan right we right we right we we think about we think about we think about what are the new tools we want to be what are the new tools we want to be what are the new tools we want to be working on working on working on uh it allows us to kind of zoom out and uh it allows us to kind of zoom out and uh it allows us to kind of zoom out and go what do we accomplish in the last go what do we accomplish in the last go what do we accomplish in the last stretch the last you know eight to ten stretch the last you know eight to ten stretch the last you know eight to ten months how have we grown or do we need

months how have we grown or do we need months how have we grown or do we need to grow more to grow more to grow more what do we need to kill what do we need to kill what do we need to kill sacred cows and how do we continue to to sacred cows and how do we continue to to sacred cows and how do we continue to to develop and and and develop and and and develop and and and you stay stay true to our core values of you stay stay true to our core values of you stay stay true to our core values of what we want to be as a company and how what we want to be as a company and how what we want to be as a company and how we serve churches it's kind of like we serve churches it's kind of like we serve churches it's kind of like jason you and i jason and i had a half jason you and i jason and i had a half jason you and i jason and i had a half hour conversation this morning we which hour conversation this morning we which hour conversation this morning we which we can't have during christmas and we can't have during christmas and we can't have during christmas and easter because we're easter because we're easter because we're drinking from a fire hose working with drinking from a fire hose working with drinking from a fire hose working with churches that are trying to market their churches that are trying to market their churches that are trying to market their christmas e in easter we had a half hour christmas e in easter we had a half hour christmas e in easter we had a half hour conversation this morning about asking conversation this morning about asking conversation this morning about asking the question the question the question what are the pain points that the what are the pain points that the what are the pain points that the churches were working with are having churches were working with are having churches were working with are having that we haven't yet developed the that we haven't yet developed the that we haven't yet developed the solution for that we need to be the ones solution for that we need to be the ones solution for that we need to be the ones to develop that solution for so we're to develop that solution for so we're to develop that solution for so we're looking at what we're doing i mean i i looking at what we're doing i mean i i looking at what we're doing i mean i i don't want to just repeat everything don't want to just repeat everything don't want to just repeat everything that jason said but we're looking at the that jason said but we're looking at the that jason said but we're looking at the past with an eye to the future and past with an eye to the future and past with an eye to the future and trying to figure out what needs to shift trying to figure out what needs to shift trying to figure out what needs to shift what needs to change what needs to change what needs to change how we can continue building on uh what how we can continue building on uh what how we can continue building on uh what god has already allowed us to do in the god has already allowed us to do in the god has already allowed us to do in the in the current season uh so that we're in the current season uh so that we're in the current season uh so that we're continuing to be fresh and we're continuing to be fresh and we're continuing to be fresh and we're continuing to be innovative and we're continuing to be innovative and we're continuing to be innovative and we're continuing to ex expand our footprint continuing to ex expand our footprint continuing to ex expand our footprint right we we work with churches right we we work with churches right we we work with churches with the hope and the goal that we're with the hope and the goal that we're with the hope and the goal that we're expanding their digital footprint and expanding their digital footprint and expanding their digital footprint and their reach in their communities and their reach in their communities and their reach in their communities and obviously for us internally we want to obviously for us internally we want to obviously for us internally we want to do the same thing we want to make sure do the same thing we want to make sure do the same thing we want to make sure that we're continuing to expand our that we're continuing to expand our that we're continuing to expand our footprint so that we can connect with footprint so that we can connect with footprint so that we can connect with more and more churches and provide them more and more churches and provide them more and more churches and provide them more and more solutions to the problems more and more solutions to the problems more and more solutions to the problems that they're having so it's kind of part that they're having so it's kind of part that they're having so it's kind of part and parcel one in the same it's what we and parcel one in the same it's what we and parcel one in the same it's what we want churches to be doing and it's what

want churches to be doing and it's what want churches to be doing and it's what we ourselves are taking this kind of low we ourselves are taking this kind of low we ourselves are taking this kind of low season uh to evaluate and to do wow so season uh to evaluate and to do wow so season uh to evaluate and to do wow so normally when i'm writing a blog i normally when i'm writing a blog i normally when i'm writing a blog i always think okay i need to do a nice always think okay i need to do a nice always think okay i need to do a nice introduction paragraph well you guys introduction paragraph well you guys introduction paragraph well you guys just gave a perfect introduction just gave a perfect introduction just gave a perfect introduction paragraph because what you said the paragraph because what you said the paragraph because what you said the church needs to be doing at the same church needs to be doing at the same church needs to be doing at the same time and sometimes i think we get caught time and sometimes i think we get caught time and sometimes i think we get caught up in in the whole idea of yes but up in in the whole idea of yes but up in in the whole idea of yes but you all do business we do business but you all do business we do business but you all do business we do business but the church does ministry and but the the church does ministry and but the the church does ministry and but the problem is is that we really need to problem is is that we really need to problem is is that we really need to start looking at ministry and saying start looking at ministry and saying start looking at ministry and saying how do we make sure that we have some how do we make sure that we have some how do we make sure that we have some checks and balances in there checks and balances in there checks and balances in there that that make sure that ministry will that that make sure that ministry will that that make sure that ministry will be ministry in a year's time be ministry in a year's time be ministry in a year's time so so so really what it comes down to is that i really what it comes down to is that i really what it comes down to is that i mean i think that there's just five mean i think that there's just five mean i think that there's just five things that that is a nice process that things that that is a nice process that things that that is a nice process that people can go through people can go through people can go through especially in the church especially in the church especially in the church that that that that are just really absolutely needed that are just really absolutely needed that are just really absolutely needed and you can't do it in a busy time like and you can't do it in a busy time like and you can't do it in a busy time like it's something that when there's a it's something that when there's a it's something that when there's a little bit of a lull little bit of a lull little bit of a lull i think that we all just gotta go oh i think that we all just gotta go oh i think that we all just gotta go oh it's just nice well wake up it's just nice well wake up it's just nice well wake up buttercup buttercup buttercup now's the time that you should be doing now's the time that you should be doing now's the time that you should be doing these five things these five things these five things okay i you got me i want to know what okay i you got me i want to know what okay i you got me i want to know what these five things are these five things are these five things are well i'm a goal-oriented person well i'm a goal-oriented person well i'm a goal-oriented person and and i'm also coming i'm i'm on the

and and i'm also coming i'm i'm on the and and i'm also coming i'm i'm on the end of a cold so just a second end of a cold so just a second end of a cold so just a second there we go there we go there we go um um um and and as a goal-oriented person and and as a goal-oriented person and and as a goal-oriented person uh oftentimes i think that what we need uh oftentimes i think that what we need uh oftentimes i think that what we need to do is just say like i i talked to a to do is just say like i i talked to a to do is just say like i i talked to a pastor yesterday and i said pastor yesterday and i said pastor yesterday and i said so so so if god just rained down blessing on you if god just rained down blessing on you if god just rained down blessing on you right now what would you what would you right now what would you what would you right now what would you what would you dream that your church would look like dream that your church would look like dream that your church would look like and like oftentimes we're so quick to and like oftentimes we're so quick to and like oftentimes we're so quick to say say say well if the lord's willing or well if the lord's willing or well if the lord's willing or you know if if the blessing happened to you know if if the blessing happened to you know if if the blessing happened to come my way well no no what like come my way well no no what like come my way well no no what like like start envisioning that vision and like start envisioning that vision and like start envisioning that vision and that's what we call goals and so you that's what we call goals and so you that's what we call goals and so you just want to make sure that just want to make sure that just want to make sure that you come up with you know challenging you come up with you know challenging you come up with you know challenging things like if you think i okay let's things like if you think i okay let's things like if you think i okay let's come up with some goals that come up with some goals that come up with some goals that i think we can get done i think we can get done i think we can get done be careful because god can do be careful because god can do be careful because god can do exceedingly more abundant above anything exceedingly more abundant above anything exceedingly more abundant above anything we could ever ask or think so make sure we could ever ask or think so make sure we could ever ask or think so make sure you make them really good and you make them really good and you make them really good and challenging make sure that they're challenging make sure that they're challenging make sure that they're motivational things that you want to do motivational things that you want to do motivational things that you want to do but then also make sure it's measurable but then also make sure it's measurable but then also make sure it's measurable so there's my little preamble before i so there's my little preamble before i so there's my little preamble before i get into the five things okay so okay get into the five things okay so okay get into the five things okay so okay number one number one number one get out into your community effective get out into your community effective get out into your community effective communication rises and falls and how communication rises and falls and how communication rises and falls and how well you know your audience and and well you know your audience and and well you know your audience and and oftentimes we get so wrapped up in the oftentimes we get so wrapped up in the oftentimes we get so wrapped up in the busy times with who the congregation is busy times with who the congregation is busy times with who the congregation is but god's placed your congregation into but god's placed your congregation into but god's placed your congregation into a community it's it's the feeder ground

a community it's it's the feeder ground a community it's it's the feeder ground is the is the area is the is the area is the is the area uh that uh that uh that that you want to to fall in love with that you want to to fall in love with that you want to to fall in love with and be known for love in that community and be known for love in that community and be known for love in that community so so get out into the community and so so get out into the community and so so get out into the community and listen listen listen let me let me pause you on that that let me let me pause you on that that let me let me pause you on that that made me think of something that i made me think of something that i made me think of something that i actually was thinking about a little bit actually was thinking about a little bit actually was thinking about a little bit earlier when you were asking the earlier when you were asking the earlier when you were asking the question what would you be doing during question what would you be doing during question what would you be doing during this down season this down season this down season what often tends to happen for churches what often tends to happen for churches what often tends to happen for churches during the summer during the low season during the summer during the low season during the summer during the low season is they assume that there's less is they assume that there's less is they assume that there's less ministry activity to do because the ministry activity to do because the ministry activity to do because the people in their church people in their church people in their church are all checking out going on vacation are all checking out going on vacation are all checking out going on vacation taking holidays kids aren't in school taking holidays kids aren't in school taking holidays kids aren't in school and so weekend attendance numbers tend and so weekend attendance numbers tend and so weekend attendance numbers tend to drop and we don't plan any new to drop and we don't plan any new to drop and we don't plan any new initiatives or do any of our regular initiatives or do any of our regular initiatives or do any of our regular programming because we're taking this programming because we're taking this programming because we're taking this break for summer because our people are break for summer because our people are break for summer because our people are less engaged but the people that you're less engaged but the people that you're less engaged but the people that you're talking about going and listening to talking about going and listening to talking about going and listening to are the people who are not yet connected are the people who are not yet connected are the people who are not yet connected to your church and the reality is is to your church and the reality is is to your church and the reality is is that marriages don't stop failing just that marriages don't stop failing just that marriages don't stop failing just because it's the summer because it's the summer because it's the summer people don't stop experiencing grief and people don't stop experiencing grief and people don't stop experiencing grief and anxiety and loss and financial anxiety and loss and financial anxiety and loss and financial challenges challenges challenges just because it's summer and so we can just because it's summer and so we can just because it's summer and so we can have this tendency sometimes to you know have this tendency sometimes to you know have this tendency sometimes to you know shift in and out of gears based on what shift in and out of gears based on what shift in and out of gears based on what what jason and i refer to as our ring what jason and i refer to as our ring what jason and i refer to as our ring one our primary audience the people who one our primary audience the people who one our primary audience the people who are already part of our church we shift

are already part of our church we shift are already part of our church we shift gears based on what our own gears based on what our own gears based on what our own congregation's needs and wants and congregation's needs and wants and congregation's needs and wants and apparent participation level is going to apparent participation level is going to apparent participation level is going to be be be without really considering the fact that without really considering the fact that without really considering the fact that there are still there are still there are still many many ministry opportunities in the many many ministry opportunities in the many many ministry opportunities in the community for people who haven't yet community for people who haven't yet community for people who haven't yet connected with our church so um i just connected with our church so um i just connected with our church so um i just wanted to jump on what you were saying wanted to jump on what you were saying wanted to jump on what you were saying there because i thought it was pretty there because i thought it was pretty there because i thought it was pretty insightful well and it's interesting insightful well and it's interesting insightful well and it's interesting because because because um um um a church just has to decide are you a a church just has to decide are you a a church just has to decide are you a church for the church or are you the church for the church or are you the church for the church or are you the church for the unchurched and and the church for the unchurched and and the church for the unchurched and and the unchurched is outside of your walls if unchurched is outside of your walls if unchurched is outside of your walls if you're only concentrating inside you'll you're only concentrating inside you'll you're only concentrating inside you'll almost always go into decline and you almost always go into decline and you almost always go into decline and you have to start looking outside because have to start looking outside because have to start looking outside because you know we do a lot of demographic you know we do a lot of demographic you know we do a lot of demographic studies of areas and it's usually a studies of areas and it's usually a studies of areas and it's usually a third or third third a third of the third or third third a third of the third or third third a third of the people in your community have no people in your community have no people in your community have no connection to any church nor do they connection to any church nor do they connection to any church nor do they want any connection to any church want any connection to any church want any connection to any church another third has had connection but another third has had connection but another third has had connection but have uh have decided that they don't have uh have decided that they don't have uh have decided that they don't want a connection anymore with a church want a connection anymore with a church want a connection anymore with a church and then the other third who and then the other third who and then the other third who are regular attenders which we all know are regular attenders which we all know are regular attenders which we all know means every day oh no every week uh no means every day oh no every week uh no means every day oh no every week uh no uh uh uh like one or two times a month like it's like one or two times a month like it's like one or two times a month like it's just it's like maybe 20 times a year but just it's like maybe 20 times a year but just it's like maybe 20 times a year but most of them are just creasters they go most of them are just creasters they go most of them are just creasters they go christmas in easter time yeah and so christmas in easter time yeah and so christmas in easter time yeah and so so that's one third so if you just want so that's one third so if you just want so that's one third so if you just want to be a church

to be a church to be a church for the fully committed believer well for the fully committed believer well for the fully committed believer well you have a very very small group of you have a very very small group of you have a very very small group of people that you're going to be talking people that you're going to be talking people that you're going to be talking to and i believe that we're to go out to and i believe that we're to go out to and i believe that we're to go out into the world and make disciples and into the world and make disciples and into the world and make disciples and and that's the other two thirds we've and that's the other two thirds we've and that's the other two thirds we've got to figure out so why did they lose got to figure out so why did they lose got to figure out so why did they lose interest in us how did the church screw interest in us how did the church screw interest in us how did the church screw them them them can i say that word yeah can i say that word yeah can i say that word yeah mess with them in the past mess with them in the past mess with them in the past and then uh without the beeping tool i and then uh without the beeping tool i and then uh without the beeping tool i told you we were going to have to beat told you we were going to have to beat told you we were going to have to beat you in this podcast you in this podcast you in this podcast man and we thought it was going to be man and we thought it was going to be man and we thought it was going to be for jason for jason for jason um um um the the interesting thing though i mean the the interesting thing though i mean the the interesting thing though i mean we need to figure out they have needs we need to figure out they have needs we need to figure out they have needs concerns and goals and we've got to concerns and goals and we've got to concerns and goals and we've got to define those things and say so how do we define those things and say so how do we define those things and say so how do we get them to pay attention to their get them to pay attention to their get them to pay attention to their church again and you can't do it unless church again and you can't do it unless church again and you can't do it unless you start talking to them you start talking to them you start talking to them well well well yeah i need to go a step deeper than yeah i need to go a step deeper than yeah i need to go a step deeper than that i don't think the first step is that i don't think the first step is that i don't think the first step is them coming to church right that we know them coming to church right that we know them coming to church right that we know that the first step might just be some that the first step might just be some that the first step might just be some kind of online engagement or maybe some kind of online engagement or maybe some kind of online engagement or maybe some kind of a fun event that you did kind of a fun event that you did kind of a fun event that you did somewhere else in a park or something somewhere else in a park or something somewhere else in a park or something like that right that relationship has to like that right that relationship has to like that right that relationship has to start there and over time let god bring start there and over time let god bring start there and over time let god bring it together it together it together absolutely and and what's interesting absolutely and and what's interesting absolutely and and what's interesting that i found so so we do focus groups that i found so so we do focus groups that i found so so we do focus groups you know we go in to a church and we you know we go in to a church and we you know we go in to a church and we pull out demographic groups and we talk pull out demographic groups and we talk pull out demographic groups and we talk to them and then we always ask for a to them and then we always ask for a to them and then we always ask for a community group some people a group of community group some people a group of community group some people a group of people from your community who don't go

people from your community who don't go people from your community who don't go to any church at all to any church at all to any church at all and and and and and and oftentimes churches go you know what oftentimes churches go you know what oftentimes churches go you know what it's just invaluable information like we it's just invaluable information like we it's just invaluable information like we just couldn't believe what you got out just couldn't believe what you got out just couldn't believe what you got out of them but every time that any person of them but every time that any person of them but every time that any person in the church like the people who are in the church like the people who are in the church like the people who are listening to this anytime you're talking listening to this anytime you're talking listening to this anytime you're talking to an unchurched person or to an unchurched person or to an unchurched person or somebody who goes to another church it's somebody who goes to another church it's somebody who goes to another church it's an informal focus group you should just an informal focus group you should just an informal focus group you should just constantly have your regular questions constantly have your regular questions constantly have your regular questions that you asked that you asked that you asked ask them and then ask them and then ask them and then listen to their answers and when listen to their answers and when listen to their answers and when somebody you know when i sit down on the somebody you know when i sit down on the somebody you know when i sit down on the flight and somebody's next to me and i flight and somebody's next to me and i flight and somebody's next to me and i mean we just have that you know let's mean we just have that you know let's mean we just have that you know let's strike up a conversation strike up a conversation strike up a conversation uh i oftentimes uh i oftentimes uh i oftentimes will will try to get like so have you will will try to get like so have you will will try to get like so have you have you ever gone to church have you ever gone to church have you ever gone to church and they'll like that's a pretty and they'll like that's a pretty and they'll like that's a pretty softball question and if they go no softball question and if they go no softball question and if they go no no he's like why like you know do you go no he's like why like you know do you go no he's like why like you know do you go to church i said yeah i kind of do i you to church i said yeah i kind of do i you to church i said yeah i kind of do i you know i i go every week like people know i i go every week like people know i i go every week like people people's minds are blown that i would people's minds are blown that i would people's minds are blown that i would give up a sunday and like the give up a sunday and like the give up a sunday and like the as as as soon as they are soon as they are soon as they are blowing their minds i'll say so what do blowing their minds i'll say so what do blowing their minds i'll say so what do you normally do on sunday and like be you normally do on sunday and like be you normally do on sunday and like be like almost every single time people say like almost every single time people say like almost every single time people say that's my family day that's my family day that's my family day for them to go to church is to give up a for them to go to church is to give up a for them to go to church is to give up a family day so we've got to figure out as family day so we've got to figure out as family day so we've got to figure out as a church how do we make sure that

a church how do we make sure that a church how do we make sure that that we have family time that we have family time that we have family time so that someone can come in and so that someone can come in and so that someone can come in and experience it as a family where experience it as a family where experience it as a family where oftentimes when someone walks through oftentimes when someone walks through oftentimes when someone walks through the door it's like oh you have children the door it's like oh you have children the door it's like oh you have children they can go here and students can go they can go here and students can go they can go here and students can go here and parents you can go here but yet here and parents you can go here but yet here and parents you can go here but yet what i see as the perception in the what i see as the perception in the what i see as the perception in the community is oftentimes they want to do community is oftentimes they want to do community is oftentimes they want to do something together something together something together yeah and and i that's something we need yeah and and i that's something we need yeah and and i that's something we need to fix i think in the church to fix i think in the church to fix i think in the church hey bart blair here i'm the producer of hey bart blair here i'm the producer of hey bart blair here i'm the producer of missional marketing's church growth missional marketing's church growth missional marketing's church growth interviews podcast thanks so much for interviews podcast thanks so much for interviews podcast thanks so much for tuning in additional marketing we're tuning in additional marketing we're tuning in additional marketing we're passionate about helping churches reach passionate about helping churches reach passionate about helping churches reach more people for jesus online and one of more people for jesus online and one of more people for jesus online and one of the ways that we do that is by helping the ways that we do that is by helping the ways that we do that is by helping churches acquire more new visitors to churches acquire more new visitors to churches acquire more new visitors to their website utilizing the google ad their website utilizing the google ad their website utilizing the google ad grant google offers qualifying grant google offers qualifying grant google offers qualifying non-profits including churches up to ten non-profits including churches up to ten non-profits including churches up to ten thousand dollars a month in advertising thousand dollars a month in advertising thousand dollars a month in advertising that means that you as a church could be that means that you as a church could be that means that you as a church could be using google as one of your primary using google as one of your primary using google as one of your primary digital outreach strategies to digital outreach strategies to digital outreach strategies to communicate the gospel and reach more communicate the gospel and reach more communicate the gospel and reach more people in your community people in your community people in your community if you'd like to learn more visit our if you'd like to learn more visit our if you'd like to learn more visit our website admissionalmarketing.com website admissionalmarketing.com website admissionalmarketing.com and click the link at the top of the and click the link at the top of the and click the link at the top of the page that says google grant we'd love an page that says google grant we'd love an page that says google grant we'd love an opportunity to partner with you in your opportunity to partner with you in your opportunity to partner with you in your mission to build god's kingdom here on mission to build god's kingdom here on mission to build god's kingdom here on earth well thanks again for listening to earth well thanks again for listening to earth well thanks again for listening to our podcast and now back to the show so our podcast and now back to the show so our podcast and now back to the show so you said mark first point is to get out you said mark first point is to get out you said mark first point is to get out into your community and listen into your community and listen into your community and listen and part of listening requires asking and part of listening requires asking and part of listening requires asking questions and that's what you just questions and that's what you just questions and that's what you just shared that you did and just because i shared that you did and just because i shared that you did and just because i want to prove that want to prove that want to prove that this is a biblical this is a biblical this is a biblical jesus like thing to do jesus like thing to do jesus like thing to do in the gospels it is recorded with jesus

in the gospels it is recorded with jesus in the gospels it is recorded with jesus asking 307 different questions asking 307 different questions asking 307 different questions people ask jesus 140 different questions people ask jesus 140 different questions people ask jesus 140 different questions and and and 181 of those 184 181 of those 184 181 of those 184 times times times he responded by asking another question he responded by asking another question he responded by asking another question the clue here the key here is the clue here the key here is the clue here the key here is asking questions and then listening and asking questions and then listening and asking questions and then listening and then asking more questions and then then asking more questions and then then asking more questions and then listening i think it's i think you're listening i think it's i think you're listening i think it's i think you're you're hitting the nail pretty hard on you're hitting the nail pretty hard on you're hitting the nail pretty hard on the head there that if we want to have the head there that if we want to have the head there that if we want to have an effective life-changing community an effective life-changing community an effective life-changing community impacting church impacting church impacting church it really needs to start with knowing it really needs to start with knowing it really needs to start with knowing and understanding our community their and understanding our community their and understanding our community their needs needs needs their their their cultural aspirations their personal and cultural aspirations their personal and cultural aspirations their personal and family aspirations we don't need to family aspirations we don't need to family aspirations we don't need to cater to them but we definitely need to cater to them but we definitely need to cater to them but we definitely need to know them and be sensitive to where they know them and be sensitive to where they know them and be sensitive to where they are if we ever expect to be able to are if we ever expect to be able to are if we ever expect to be able to reach them and ultimately bart i mean reach them and ultimately bart i mean reach them and ultimately bart i mean you understand this i mean you understand this i mean you understand this i mean in this communication world that we live in this communication world that we live in this communication world that we live in i mean we call them personas which is in i mean we call them personas which is in i mean we call them personas which is just a stereotypical description of a just a stereotypical description of a just a stereotypical description of a group of people well group of people well group of people well if we're to go into the highways and if we're to go into the highways and if we're to go into the highways and byways and compel them to come in we byways and compel them to come in we byways and compel them to come in we need to we need to know what would need to we need to know what would need to we need to know what would compet what is compelling to them compet what is compelling to them compet what is compelling to them so so the goal of number one is that so so the goal of number one is that so so the goal of number one is that you need to to clarify who your persona you need to to clarify who your persona you need to to clarify who your persona is is is who what their needs concerns and goals who what their needs concerns and goals who what their needs concerns and goals are what would a solution to their needs are what would a solution to their needs are what would a solution to their needs and concerns be and what would a path to and concerns be and what would a path to and concerns be and what would a path to a goal be

a goal be a goal be and then which is the most prominent as and then which is the most prominent as and then which is the most prominent as you talk to more and more people you talk to more and more people you talk to more and more people what rises to the top all the time and what rises to the top all the time and what rises to the top all the time and if your church can figure out how they if your church can figure out how they if your church can figure out how they can become known for something that's a can become known for something that's a can become known for something that's a solution to a need or concern or a path solution to a need or concern or a path solution to a need or concern or a path to a goal people will go i to a goal people will go i to a goal people will go i didn't expect to get it from a church didn't expect to get it from a church didn't expect to get it from a church but that's what i'm looking for yeah but that's what i'm looking for yeah but that's what i'm looking for yeah um um um all right okay number one we got the all right okay number one we got the all right okay number one we got the first one what's the second one first one what's the second one first one what's the second one yeah and this is usually when i think oh yeah and this is usually when i think oh yeah and this is usually when i think oh my goodness we're only at one ah my goodness we're only at one ah my goodness we're only at one ah okay so two is it sounds crazy but okay so two is it sounds crazy but okay so two is it sounds crazy but but really what we've been talking about but really what we've been talking about but really what we've been talking about based upon audience based upon the based upon audience based upon the based upon audience based upon the community are you known for the right community are you known for the right community are you known for the right things and if you're not then number two things and if you're not then number two things and if you're not then number two is talk to your pastor is talk to your pastor is talk to your pastor and consider a rebrand like you just and consider a rebrand like you just and consider a rebrand like you just have to say okay so if our current brand have to say okay so if our current brand have to say okay so if our current brand is not working i.e you're reducing in is not working i.e you're reducing in is not working i.e you're reducing in numbers you're in in decline or numbers you're in in decline or numbers you're in in decline or stagnation stagnation stagnation then then it might be time for you to then then it might be time for you to then then it might be time for you to rebrand and that sounds scary that is rebrand and that sounds scary that is rebrand and that sounds scary that is not just changing your logo this is not just changing your logo this is not just changing your logo this is changing the perception of your church changing the perception of your church changing the perception of your church so that how do we become known for so that how do we become known for so that how do we become known for something that's relevant and needed in something that's relevant and needed in something that's relevant and needed in this community and so this community and so this community and so you just need to do whatever it takes to you just need to do whatever it takes to you just need to do whatever it takes to reconnect to that community okay double reconnect to that community okay double reconnect to that community okay double click double click you gotta stop sorry click double click you gotta stop sorry click double click you gotta stop sorry jason jason jason go ahead jason when you've talked to

go ahead jason when you've talked to go ahead jason when you've talked to churches about what it means to build a churches about what it means to build a churches about what it means to build a rebrand just give us a couple of rebrand just give us a couple of rebrand just give us a couple of insights on like does that mean hey insights on like does that mean hey insights on like does that mean hey gather all the leadership team or even gather all the leadership team or even gather all the leadership team or even gather the elders we're going to talk gather the elders we're going to talk gather the elders we're going to talk strategy we're going to we're going to strategy we're going to we're going to strategy we're going to we're going to talk about our core values we're going talk about our core values we're going talk about our core values we're going to talk about what we are mandated to do to talk about what we are mandated to do to talk about what we are mandated to do or how do you lead them through that i or how do you lead them through that i or how do you lead them through that i think he i think what he means jason is think he i think what he means jason is think he i think what he means jason is you need to you need to you need to design a new logo by committee that's design a new logo by committee that's design a new logo by committee that's what you need to do that's what what you need to do that's what what you need to do that's what rebranding the church is right it's rebranding the church is right it's rebranding the church is right it's designing a new logo by committee okay designing a new logo by committee okay designing a new logo by committee okay so you're gonna get more views on this so you're gonna get more views on this so you're gonna get more views on this as i throw up in front of the camera as i throw up in front of the camera as i throw up in front of the camera okay so no that is not what we're okay so no that is not what we're okay so no that is not what we're talking about and in fact jason you just talking about and in fact jason you just talking about and in fact jason you just you just hit a sore point which i could you just hit a sore point which i could you just hit a sore point which i could go off on but go off on but go off on but that whole mission vision values like we that whole mission vision values like we that whole mission vision values like we all in the church world everybody wants all in the church world everybody wants all in the church world everybody wants to talk about our what's your mission to talk about our what's your mission to talk about our what's your mission what's your vision what's your values what's your vision what's your values what's your vision what's your values all of those things are so navel-gazing all of those things are so navel-gazing all of those things are so navel-gazing like you're just staring at your belly like you're just staring at your belly like you're just staring at your belly button and you're talking about so what button and you're talking about so what button and you're talking about so what me what does it mean to be our church me what does it mean to be our church me what does it mean to be our church how do we do ministry how do let's just how do we do ministry how do let's just how do we do ministry how do let's just talk about me me me me me the problem is talk about me me me me me the problem is talk about me me me me me the problem is is that we've got to start making it is that we've got to start making it is that we've got to start making it about them them them them so so you've about them them them them so so you've about them them them them so so you've got to take your mission vision and got to take your mission vision and got to take your mission vision and value which are important i'll give them value which are important i'll give them value which are important i'll give them that and you probably want to make sure that and you probably want to make sure that and you probably want to make sure you have those things so that people who you have those things so that people who you have those things so that people who become fully committed members in your become fully committed members in your become fully committed members in your church understand why church understand why church understand why what makes your church a church but what makes your church a church but what makes your church a church but you've got to convert that into an you've got to convert that into an you've got to convert that into an external thread which you know we call

external thread which you know we call external thread which you know we call it you know we call it a communication it you know we call it a communication it you know we call it a communication thread it's it's a traditional brand thread it's it's a traditional brand thread it's it's a traditional brand positioning statement if everyone is positioning statement if everyone is positioning statement if everyone is saying we're about the same which every saying we're about the same which every saying we're about the same which every mission vision values mission vision values mission vision values like like like convince me otherwise is pretty much the convince me otherwise is pretty much the convince me otherwise is pretty much the same it's kind of scriptural and same it's kind of scriptural and same it's kind of scriptural and scripture makes it really clear and scripture makes it really clear and scripture makes it really clear and everyone everyone everyone you know everyone rotates around the you know everyone rotates around the you know everyone rotates around the different wording around all of it but different wording around all of it but different wording around all of it but but if everyone is the same no one will but if everyone is the same no one will but if everyone is the same no one will make a choice if if you can be different make a choice if if you can be different make a choice if if you can be different if you can be positioned differently if you can be positioned differently if you can be positioned differently from all the other people that are out from all the other people that are out from all the other people that are out there and that you speak directly to the there and that you speak directly to the there and that you speak directly to the the audience that you're trying to reach the audience that you're trying to reach the audience that you're trying to reach and you're actually different and you're actually different and you're actually different then then people will know you for then then people will know you for then then people will know you for something different and that's that's something different and that's that's something different and that's that's where you need to like whether where you need to like whether where you need to like whether whether you hire somebody like you guys whether you hire somebody like you guys whether you hire somebody like you guys or whether you hire someone like us or or whether you hire someone like us or or whether you hire someone like us or our team or if you pick up my book uh our team or if you pick up my book uh our team or if you pick up my book uh amazon.com amazon.com amazon.com and number two amazon bestseller that uh and number two amazon bestseller that uh and number two amazon bestseller that uh it walks you through the whole process it walks you through the whole process it walks you through the whole process of how do you become known for something of how do you become known for something of how do you become known for something that's relevant and needed and every that's relevant and needed and every that's relevant and needed and every chapter ends with some questions to to chapter ends with some questions to to chapter ends with some questions to to move them forward or we do this crazy move them forward or we do this crazy move them forward or we do this crazy thing called the the brand retreat where thing called the the brand retreat where thing called the the brand retreat where we come in and for three days we meet we come in and for three days we meet we come in and for three days we meet with the leadership of the church and at with the leadership of the church and at with the leadership of the church and at the end of the three days we have a the end of the three days we have a the end of the three days we have a thread we've defined personas and we've thread we've defined personas and we've thread we've defined personas and we've we have a start of a communication

we have a start of a communication we have a start of a communication strategy or you can hire another agency strategy or you can hire another agency strategy or you can hire another agency like i mean this is not about be known like i mean this is not about be known like i mean this is not about be known for something by any stretch because for something by any stretch because for something by any stretch because there's so many good people that are out there's so many good people that are out there's so many good people that are out there that will help you with the there that will help you with the there that will help you with the rebrand but you can also do it yourself rebrand but you can also do it yourself rebrand but you can also do it yourself by using some tools like the the book by using some tools like the the book by using some tools like the the book you know for something you know for something you know for something good stuff good stuff good stuff yeah i think you're hitting on something yeah i think you're hitting on something yeah i think you're hitting on something that's just super super important and that's just super super important and that's just super super important and you know when it comes to branding you know when it comes to branding you know when it comes to branding this was basically what the podcast was this was basically what the podcast was this was basically what the podcast was all about that you and jason had the all about that you and jason had the all about that you and jason had the conversation before is that we as as conversation before is that we as as conversation before is that we as as communicators especially since so many communicators especially since so many communicators especially since so many of us are visual right i mean i i don't of us are visual right i mean i i don't of us are visual right i mean i i don't know many communications directors who know many communications directors who know many communications directors who didn't start out in some level of didn't start out in some level of didn't start out in some level of graphic design and marketing and and graphic design and marketing and and graphic design and marketing and and were visual and so we so were visual and so we so were visual and so we so lean into the visual components as who lean into the visual components as who lean into the visual components as who of who we are to actually be the of who we are to actually be the of who we are to actually be the identifiers of our brand and uh mark i i identifiers of our brand and uh mark i i identifiers of our brand and uh mark i i don't know you well but i do don't know you well but i do don't know you well but i do really appreciate the emphasis that you really appreciate the emphasis that you really appreciate the emphasis that you place on the brand being more tied to place on the brand being more tied to place on the brand being more tied to what people believe about us think about what people believe about us think about what people believe about us think about us and say about us than what we say us and say about us than what we say us and say about us than what we say about ourselves because it really about ourselves because it really about ourselves because it really doesn't matter what we say about doesn't matter what we say about doesn't matter what we say about ourselves if the people in our community ourselves if the people in our community ourselves if the people in our community are not uh echoing those sentiments or are not uh echoing those sentiments or are not uh echoing those sentiments or if they have a completely idea a if they have a completely idea a if they have a completely idea a different idea about who we are and different idea about who we are and different idea about who we are and what our purpose is in the community so what our purpose is in the community so what our purpose is in the community so before before covid more than 4 000 before before covid more than 4 000 before before covid more than 4 000 evangelical churches close their doors

evangelical churches close their doors evangelical churches close their doors every year every year every year and i would dare say that many of them and i would dare say that many of them and i would dare say that many of them had really good mission vision and had really good mission vision and had really good mission vision and values values values but they just weren't living them out but they just weren't living them out but they just weren't living them out and that's the problem and that's the problem and that's the problem lifting lifting lifting yeah and it is not converting it it yeah and it is not converting it it yeah and it is not converting it it feels very internal so that the average feels very internal so that the average feels very internal so that the average person like if you have make mature person like if you have make mature person like if you have make mature multiplied disciples for jesus christ is multiplied disciples for jesus christ is multiplied disciples for jesus christ is your you know your big vision well no your you know your big vision well no your you know your big vision well no one in your community in that two-thirds one in your community in that two-thirds one in your community in that two-thirds group is waking up this morning saying group is waking up this morning saying group is waking up this morning saying man if only i could make mature man if only i could make mature man if only i could make mature multiplied disciples for jesus christ multiplied disciples for jesus christ multiplied disciples for jesus christ like it's an internal like it's an internal like it's an internal language that needs to be converted to language that needs to be converted to language that needs to be converted to what is the benefit for the person what is the benefit for the person what is the benefit for the person that's listening to it that's listening to it that's listening to it absolutely uh that was that was point absolutely uh that was that was point absolutely uh that was that was point sorry we man we got to keep going here sorry we man we got to keep going here sorry we man we got to keep going here because we have we have three more we because we have we have three more we because we have we have three more we okay each one of these probably could okay each one of these probably could okay each one of these probably could have been a podcast episode we don't have been a podcast episode we don't have been a podcast episode we don't have time to do that so uh number one have time to do that so uh number one have time to do that so uh number one get out in your community and listen get out in your community and listen get out in your community and listen number two if you're a communications number two if you're a communications number two if you're a communications director leader if you're an executive director leader if you're an executive director leader if you're an executive pastor talk to your senior pastor about pastor talk to your senior pastor about pastor talk to your senior pastor about a rebrand and then lean in to some other a rebrand and then lean in to some other a rebrand and then lean in to some other voices like mark or others who can help voices like mark or others who can help voices like mark or others who can help you figure out what steps and process you figure out what steps and process you figure out what steps and process you need to go through to do that you need to go through to do that you need to go through to do that rebrand process what is our third thing rebrand process what is our third thing rebrand process what is our third thing to consider as we go into the summer to consider as we go into the summer to consider as we go into the summer mark okay and this one should be a very mark okay and this one should be a very mark okay and this one should be a very quick one i mean just it's exactly what quick one i mean just it's exactly what quick one i mean just it's exactly what we were talking about at the very we were talking about at the very we were talking about at the very beginning beginning beginning look at your past year look at your past year look at your past year and decide what have we done right

and decide what have we done right and decide what have we done right what have we done really wrong what have we done really wrong what have we done really wrong or what's in between or what's in between or what's in between and and was it stuff that was out of our and and was it stuff that was out of our and and was it stuff that was out of our control control control and what could we control and that's and what could we control and that's and what could we control and that's what we call strategy so what we call strategy so what we call strategy so you just gotta look it's like look at you just gotta look it's like look at you just gotta look it's like look at the past year the past year the past year and look ahead to your next year and say and look ahead to your next year and say and look ahead to your next year and say so how are we going to do it differently so how are we going to do it differently so how are we going to do it differently i mean that should be a scary word for i mean that should be a scary word for i mean that should be a scary word for every church every church every church like like like maybe maybe maybe the way you've always done things is not the way you've always done things is not the way you've always done things is not the right way and and i don't say that the right way and and i don't say that the right way and and i don't say that with too much mocking but there's a lot with too much mocking but there's a lot with too much mocking but there's a lot of mocking that i just like through on of mocking that i just like through on of mocking that i just like through on to that to that to that i do it all the time i'll say you know i do it all the time i'll say you know i do it all the time i'll say you know you gotta like i always ask churches you gotta like i always ask churches you gotta like i always ask churches what are those sacred cows what are they what are those sacred cows what are they what are those sacred cows what are they you know that you just can't live you know that you just can't live you know that you just can't live without and i get i usually get those without and i get i usually get those without and i get i usually get those from the lead pastor always wants to do from the lead pastor always wants to do from the lead pastor always wants to do this this this how do you know it's working he doesn't how do you know it's working he doesn't how do you know it's working he doesn't he just has a feeling that it's working he just has a feeling that it's working he just has a feeling that it's working yeah yeah that's usually where all i'll yeah yeah that's usually where all i'll yeah yeah that's usually where all i'll camp out so let's talk about that yeah camp out so let's talk about that yeah camp out so let's talk about that yeah and that it goes back to and that it goes back to and that it goes back to like be setting goals that are like be setting goals that are like be setting goals that are measurable so that you know whether it's measurable so that you know whether it's measurable so that you know whether it's it's succeeded or failed and and it's succeeded or failed and and it's succeeded or failed and and oftentimes people go oh i i would hate oftentimes people go oh i i would hate oftentimes people go oh i i would hate to like declare my to like declare my to like declare my my goal that that is like you know this my goal that that is like you know this my goal that that is like you know this year we're going to double our social year we're going to double our social year we're going to double our social media followers because as soon as you media followers because as soon as you media followers because as soon as you say it then you i think everybody says say it then you i think everybody says say it then you i think everybody says oh my goodness i'm going to lose my job oh my goodness i'm going to lose my job oh my goodness i'm going to lose my job because i'm going to tell everybody because i'm going to tell everybody because i'm going to tell everybody we're going to double it and then if we we're going to double it and then if we we're going to double it and then if we don't double it then i'm going to be don't double it then i'm going to be don't double it then i'm going to be axed well the problem is is that

axed well the problem is is that axed well the problem is is that oftentimes we just say so let's just try oftentimes we just say so let's just try oftentimes we just say so let's just try to improve our social media and then at to improve our social media and then at to improve our social media and then at the end of the year you go so has the the end of the year you go so has the the end of the year you go so has the social media improved and the person social media improved and the person social media improved and the person who's trying to get a raise says who's trying to get a raise says who's trying to get a raise says uh uh uh yes yes oh my goodness let me tell you yes yes oh my goodness let me tell you yes yes oh my goodness let me tell you and spin everything as positive as and spin everything as positive as and spin everything as positive as possible possible possible but the thing is on this side looking but the thing is on this side looking but the thing is on this side looking forward into your next year you've got forward into your next year you've got forward into your next year you've got to to to take some god sized leaps and say here's take some god sized leaps and say here's take some god sized leaps and say here's what we really need to accomplish based what we really need to accomplish based what we really need to accomplish based upon some failures of the past i love upon some failures of the past i love upon some failures of the past i love helping churches especially helping churches especially helping churches especially communication directors create a a communication directors create a a communication directors create a a budget because they'll ask us budget because they'll ask us budget because they'll ask us can you help us right yeah i i need to i can you help us right yeah i i need to i can you help us right yeah i i need to i need to submit my budget for the year need to submit my budget for the year need to submit my budget for the year what do you think i should do so i put what do you think i should do so i put what do you think i should do so i put on my communication director hat and i on my communication director hat and i on my communication director hat and i go go go let's talk about that what i try to let's talk about that what i try to let's talk about that what i try to plant in their heads is don't think just plant in their heads is don't think just plant in their heads is don't think just this year this year this year go to your leadership who are go to your leadership who are go to your leadership who are business-minded especially the elders business-minded especially the elders business-minded especially the elders probably business leaders and have like probably business leaders and have like probably business leaders and have like a three-year plan a five-year plan and a three-year plan a five-year plan and a three-year plan a five-year plan and this is what you want this year and this is what you want this year and this is what you want this year and here's how i'm gonna measure the results here's how i'm gonna measure the results here's how i'm gonna measure the results here's how i think the roi is going to here's how i think the roi is going to here's how i think the roi is going to play out but i have a big long-term play out but i have a big long-term play out but i have a big long-term i mean that's going to speak volumes i mean that's going to speak volumes i mean that's going to speak volumes into into into them going them going them going blessing you are not blessing you based blessing you are not blessing you based blessing you are not blessing you based on what your vision is for for your team on what your vision is for for your team on what your vision is for for your team that's scary that's scary that's scary but it's also very strategic yeah and but it's also very strategic yeah and but it's also very strategic yeah and it's interesting because the church it's interesting because the church it's interesting because the church loves to tell the person in the pew that loves to tell the person in the pew that loves to tell the person in the pew that when they say so should i tithe on net when they say so should i tithe on net when they say so should i tithe on net or on gross the church quickly says

or on gross the church quickly says or on gross the church quickly says well it depends on how much blessing you well it depends on how much blessing you well it depends on how much blessing you want like do you feel that you want to want like do you feel that you want to want like do you feel that you want to blah blah blah all that stuff well blah blah blah all that stuff well blah blah blah all that stuff well when setting budgets oftentimes when setting budgets oftentimes when setting budgets oftentimes the budget's the reason why things the budget's the reason why things the budget's the reason why things aren't achieved in the church so set as aren't achieved in the church so set as aren't achieved in the church so set as much budget as possible and just make much budget as possible and just make much budget as possible and just make sure that there's return on investment sure that there's return on investment sure that there's return on investment and and the thing is that requires goals and and the thing is that requires goals and and the thing is that requires goals and they have to be measurable and you and they have to be measurable and you and they have to be measurable and you have to make sure that have to make sure that have to make sure that you know what you're throwing money at you know what you're throwing money at you know what you're throwing money at is actually working yeah i'm a big fan is actually working yeah i'm a big fan is actually working yeah i'm a big fan of will mancini's horizon storyline of will mancini's horizon storyline of will mancini's horizon storyline which really which really which really gives clarity for churches on how to gives clarity for churches on how to gives clarity for churches on how to create multiple year create multiple year create multiple year strategies and plans for a long-term strategies and plans for a long-term strategies and plans for a long-term vision and vision and vision and one thing that i think is really one thing that i think is really one thing that i think is really important to kind of piggyback on what important to kind of piggyback on what important to kind of piggyback on what jason is saying is that it's almost jason is saying is that it's almost jason is saying is that it's almost impossible for a church communications impossible for a church communications impossible for a church communications director to really set effective goals director to really set effective goals director to really set effective goals and strategies that will be overall wins and strategies that will be overall wins and strategies that will be overall wins for the church for the church for the church if the church itself does not have if the church itself does not have if the church itself does not have clarity on where it's headed and what clarity on where it's headed and what clarity on where it's headed and what its ultimate goals and plans are because its ultimate goals and plans are because its ultimate goals and plans are because everything the communications director everything the communications director everything the communications director is doing ought to be is doing ought to be is doing ought to be working to move the needle on the working to move the needle on the working to move the needle on the church's overarching goals right so it's church's overarching goals right so it's church's overarching goals right so it's one thing for the communications one thing for the communications one thing for the communications director to set goals in a vacuum and director to set goals in a vacuum and director to set goals in a vacuum and say i want to double social media and i say i want to double social media and i say i want to double social media and i want to have this kind of open rate on want to have this kind of open rate on want to have this kind of open rate on my emails and i want to do this well my emails and i want to do this well my emails and i want to do this well that's all well and good but in the end that's all well and good but in the end that's all well and good but in the end how is that helping the church as a how is that helping the church as a how is that helping the church as a whole whole whole make new disciples and how do we how do make new disciples and how do we how do make new disciples and how do we how do we tie those things together so i think

we tie those things together so i think we tie those things together so i think you know whether it's budgeting or you know whether it's budgeting or you know whether it's budgeting or setting goals setting objectives setting goals setting objectives setting goals setting objectives whatever your role is in the church whatever your role is in the church whatever your role is in the church you need to do your best to try to align you need to do your best to try to align you need to do your best to try to align it with the church's overarching goals it with the church's overarching goals it with the church's overarching goals and and and if you're if you're if you're going to your leaders and they are going to your leaders and they are going to your leaders and they are unclear about what their goals are and unclear about what their goals are and unclear about what their goals are and where the church is is headed this is an where the church is is headed this is an where the church is is headed this is an opportunity for you to lead up and opportunity for you to lead up and opportunity for you to lead up and really try to influence them and help really try to influence them and help really try to influence them and help them see that what you want to do is to them see that what you want to do is to them see that what you want to do is to help the church succeed but we as a help the church succeed but we as a help the church succeed but we as a church need to define what success means church need to define what success means church need to define what success means for us and that's why number two is talk for us and that's why number two is talk for us and that's why number two is talk to your pastor because your pastor has to your pastor because your pastor has to your pastor because your pastor has to set the vision to set the vision to set the vision as a communications person your goal is as a communications person your goal is as a communications person your goal is to advocate for audience so to advocate for audience so to advocate for audience so so so so oftentimes people you know when i'm oftentimes people you know when i'm oftentimes people you know when i'm saying you got to develop your thread saying you got to develop your thread saying you got to develop your thread the communications person says i can't the communications person says i can't the communications person says i can't develop my thread because that has to develop my thread because that has to develop my thread because that has to come from above me that's above my pay come from above me that's above my pay come from above me that's above my pay grade and it is above grade and it is above grade and it is above most communications people's pay grade most communications people's pay grade most communications people's pay grade because most pastors because most pastors because most pastors uh uh uh have not put the communications person have not put the communications person have not put the communications person in a lead in a lead in a lead uh uh uh you know leadership position you know leadership position you know leadership position so that they can set you know set the so that they can set you know set the so that they can set you know set the vision so you've got to come in in line vision so you've got to come in in line vision so you've got to come in in line and support and and motivate your pastor and support and and motivate your pastor and support and and motivate your pastor by saying by saying by saying what's your vision how do we convert what's your vision how do we convert what's your vision how do we convert that to a thread and then here's some that to a thread and then here's some that to a thread and then here's some strategies so that we can make sure that strategies so that we can make sure that strategies so that we can make sure that that you will achieve that that you will achieve that that you will achieve that yeah cool

yeah cool yeah cool okay let's talk about the fourth one okay let's talk about the fourth one okay let's talk about the fourth one because we covered the three of them because we covered the three of them because we covered the three of them last one was assess your past year and last one was assess your past year and last one was assess your past year and plan your upcoming year to the strategy plan your upcoming year to the strategy plan your upcoming year to the strategy what's number four yes and that what's number four yes and that what's number four yes and that that last one was supposed to be very that last one was supposed to be very that last one was supposed to be very quick and this next one i'm gonna try as quick and this next one i'm gonna try as quick and this next one i'm gonna try as much as possible to make this as quick much as possible to make this as quick much as possible to make this as quick as possible but number four as possible but number four as possible but number four is is is if you don't have anything on your plate if you don't have anything on your plate if you don't have anything on your plate right now work on your website right now work on your website right now work on your website uh most church websites suck like uh most church websites suck like uh most church websites suck like they're just so bad they're they're not they're just so bad they're they're not they're just so bad they're they're not giving people like we do a bunch of giving people like we do a bunch of giving people like we do a bunch of focus groups and the number one thing focus groups and the number one thing focus groups and the number one thing that people say is that people say is that people say is i've been to the website i don't know i've been to the website i don't know i've been to the website i don't know whether it's up to date or i've been to whether it's up to date or i've been to whether it's up to date or i've been to the website and i can't seem to find the website and i can't seem to find the website and i can't seem to find anything and so if if you find anything and so if if you find anything and so if if you find your church in that in that world where your church in that in that world where your church in that in that world where people are calling or saying people are calling or saying people are calling or saying uh yeah i need information about and you uh yeah i need information about and you uh yeah i need information about and you say well you just go to the website and say well you just go to the website and say well you just go to the website and they're like i can't find it on your they're like i can't find it on your they're like i can't find it on your website it's because your website sucks website it's because your website sucks website it's because your website sucks like it's to a point where i just work like it's to a point where i just work like it's to a point where i just work on it and get really good at seo content on it and get really good at seo content on it and get really good at seo content so organization is really key make sure so organization is really key make sure so organization is really key make sure you have the you know nadas like about you have the you know nadas like about you have the you know nadas like about six things in your main menu make sure six things in your main menu make sure six things in your main menu make sure that they're in the right order from that they're in the right order from that they're in the right order from left prioritize to the right left prioritize to the right left prioritize to the right uh and then make sure things are uh and then make sure things are uh and then make sure things are rise to the top of your page so give rise to the top of your page so give rise to the top of your page so give overarching information at the top of overarching information at the top of overarching information at the top of your page and then get more uh more

your page and then get more uh more your page and then get more uh more specific as you go down the page specific as you go down the page specific as you go down the page but then also make sure that all of your but then also make sure that all of your but then also make sure that all of your content is set up so that google becomes content is set up so that google becomes content is set up so that google becomes your biggest evangelist you want to make your biggest evangelist you want to make your biggest evangelist you want to make sure that that search engine sure that that search engine sure that that search engine optimization principles optimization principles optimization principles and i mean i can get really granular and i mean i can get really granular and i mean i can get really granular here um here um here um and oh there's just so many cool things and oh there's just so many cool things and oh there's just so many cool things that are out there that are out there that are out there really good tools that are free to really good tools that are free to really good tools that are free to to everyone who's listening to make sure to everyone who's listening to make sure to everyone who's listening to make sure that the content's right on your page that the content's right on your page that the content's right on your page can i just go into one like the one that can i just go into one like the one that can i just go into one like the one that i just discovered yeah i just discovered yeah i just discovered yeah okay so okay so okay so so if your page is so if your page is so if your page is about um about um about um awana awana awana which is a sub brand which no one in which is a sub brand which no one in which is a sub brand which no one in their right mind would ever in their their right mind would ever in their their right mind would ever in their community say well my kids just need community say well my kids just need community say well my kids just need awana awana awana so instead if you think about it think so instead if you think about it think so instead if you think about it think about what would they be googling to about what would they be googling to about what would they be googling to find it so find it so find it so uh children's program uh children's program uh children's program would probably be that thing would probably be that thing would probably be that thing so instead of calling it a wanna call a so instead of calling it a wanna call a so instead of calling it a wanna call a children's program then introduce that children's program then introduce that children's program then introduce that it's called one in our in our church but it's called one in our in our church but it's called one in our in our church but go to google.com go to google.com go to google.com and put in children's program and put in children's program and put in children's program and what it does is it knows all the and what it does is it knows all the and what it does is it knows all the people in your world in your community people in your world in your community people in your world in your community who are googling things about children's who are googling things about children's who are googling things about children's programs programs programs and what it'll do is you know how it and what it'll do is you know how it and what it'll do is you know how it gives you that little drop down gives you that little drop down gives you that little drop down and oftentimes it's just worded a little and oftentimes it's just worded a little and oftentimes it's just worded a little bit different and and go with

bit different and and go with bit different and and go with google's words not with what you think google's words not with what you think google's words not with what you think it should be that's right yeah and and it should be that's right yeah and and it should be that's right yeah and and then the other really cool tip here is then the other really cool tip here is then the other really cool tip here is just you know how they gives you all the just you know how they gives you all the just you know how they gives you all the websites you possibly might want in websites you possibly might want in websites you possibly might want in google in the google search keep google in the google search keep google in the google search keep scrolling you probably have to like scrolling you probably have to like scrolling you probably have to like swipe two or three times swipe two or three times swipe two or three times halfway down you're gonna see related halfway down you're gonna see related halfway down you're gonna see related searches and people also ask people also searches and people also ask people also searches and people also ask people also ask are all the questions that someone ask are all the questions that someone ask are all the questions that someone puts with a question mark about that puts with a question mark about that puts with a question mark about that topic and you better answer those topic and you better answer those topic and you better answer those questions so if you have an faq or if questions so if you have an faq or if questions so if you have an faq or if you have a an area at the bottom of your you have a an area at the bottom of your you have a an area at the bottom of your page page page that you should have where you're that you should have where you're that you should have where you're answering questions about the answering questions about the answering questions about the information on the page go with what information on the page go with what information on the page go with what google has and if you supply the google has and if you supply the google has and if you supply the information really well and use the information really well and use the information really well and use the exact words that google has suggested exact words that google has suggested exact words that google has suggested then google will love you yup you'll then google will love you yup you'll then google will love you yup you'll show up yep so i mean we can we can show up yep so i mean we can we can show up yep so i mean we can we can cover that with so many to like cover that with so many to like cover that with so many to like celebrate recovery right nobody searches celebrate recovery right nobody searches celebrate recovery right nobody searches that outside the church world it's that outside the church world it's that outside the church world it's addiction recovery or addiction support addiction recovery or addiction support addiction recovery or addiction support support groups that kind of a thing it's support groups that kind of a thing it's support groups that kind of a thing it's just yeah that plays out that's that's just yeah that plays out that's that's just yeah that plays out that's that's been phenomenal advice be working on been phenomenal advice be working on been phenomenal advice be working on your website throughout the summer jason your website throughout the summer jason your website throughout the summer jason and i recorded there's a video on our and i recorded there's a video on our and i recorded there's a video on our youtube channel i'll ask randall to uh youtube channel i'll ask randall to uh youtube channel i'll ask randall to uh link it in the in the show notes uh but link it in the in the show notes uh but link it in the in the show notes uh but we have a video that we recorded it we have a video that we recorded it we have a video that we recorded it might have been a podcast or it might might have been a podcast or it might might have been a podcast or it might have just been something we did offhand have just been something we did offhand have just been something we did offhand which was um four things to rethink

which was um four things to rethink which was um four things to rethink about your church website about your church website about your church website uh one of the things that i want to uh one of the things that i want to uh one of the things that i want to emphasize before we move on to the fifth emphasize before we move on to the fifth emphasize before we move on to the fifth and final point is more than likely if and final point is more than likely if and final point is more than likely if you look at your analytics you will see you look at your analytics you will see you look at your analytics you will see that that that somewhere between 60 and 90 somewhere between 60 and 90 somewhere between 60 and 90 of your website traffic is new visitor of your website traffic is new visitor of your website traffic is new visitor meaning it's people who don't yet know meaning it's people who don't yet know meaning it's people who don't yet know you therefore the way that you organize you therefore the way that you organize you therefore the way that you organize your content on your website needs to be your content on your website needs to be your content on your website needs to be done through the filter of the person done through the filter of the person done through the filter of the person who doesn't have any context of who you who doesn't have any context of who you who doesn't have any context of who you are or what you're all about so are or what you're all about so are or what you're all about so everything above the fold meaning everything above the fold meaning everything above the fold meaning basically everything you see on the basically everything you see on the basically everything you see on the screen when the website first loads screen when the website first loads screen when the website first loads needs to be focused on the person who's needs to be focused on the person who's needs to be focused on the person who's come to your website who simply doesn't come to your website who simply doesn't come to your website who simply doesn't know who you are or what you're about know who you are or what you're about know who you are or what you're about there needs to be there needs to be there needs to be clear calls to action clear calls to action clear calls to action for the person for the person for the person who's trying to learn more about who you who's trying to learn more about who you who's trying to learn more about who you are and what you offer them and so using are and what you offer them and so using are and what you offer them and so using using language that is both friendly to using language that is both friendly to using language that is both friendly to google but also friendly to the outsider google but also friendly to the outsider google but also friendly to the outsider of your church not using all of your of your church not using all of your of your church not using all of your insider lingo insider language program insider lingo insider language program insider lingo insider language program names if that doesn't mean anything to names if that doesn't mean anything to names if that doesn't mean anything to anybody outside the church it's not anybody outside the church it's not anybody outside the church it's not useful on your website at least not useful on your website at least not useful on your website at least not above the fold on the home page so above the fold on the home page so above the fold on the home page so there's my soapbox there's my soapbox there's my soapbox a little stamp on that if your mission a little stamp on that if your mission a little stamp on that if your mission statement is on your home page remove it statement is on your home page remove it statement is on your home page remove it nobody cares about your mission nobody cares about your mission nobody cares about your mission statement other than you instead replace statement other than you instead replace statement other than you instead replace it with a benefit statement for why they it with a benefit statement for why they it with a benefit statement for why they should come to your church i'm feeling should come to your church i'm feeling should come to your church i'm feeling the spirit the spirit the spirit here we go here we go here we go all right let the spirit lead you mark

all right let the spirit lead you mark all right let the spirit lead you mark point number five you'll you'll post point number five you'll you'll post point number five you'll you'll post this on youtube and it will randomly this on youtube and it will randomly this on youtube and it will randomly choose this one picture of me with my choose this one picture of me with my choose this one picture of me with my hands off that stuff hands off that stuff hands off that stuff it doesn't have to randomly do it i can it doesn't have to randomly do it i can it doesn't have to randomly do it i can choose that myself and i might just do choose that myself and i might just do choose that myself and i might just do so yeah you put ben stapley's picture up so yeah you put ben stapley's picture up so yeah you put ben stapley's picture up um okay so um okay so um okay so five the last one hallelujah everyone five the last one hallelujah everyone five the last one hallelujah everyone everyone who's listening is like get to everyone who's listening is like get to everyone who's listening is like get to the last one so i can stop listening the last one so i can stop listening the last one so i can stop listening okay so okay so okay so five five five is is is social media will suck the life out of social media will suck the life out of social media will suck the life out of you and especially during really busy you and especially during really busy you and especially during really busy times so number five is create evergreen times so number five is create evergreen times so number five is create evergreen content that you can post anytime content that you can post anytime content that you can post anytime so it's the stuff like so it's the stuff like so it's the stuff like here at binom for something i mean we're here at binom for something i mean we're here at binom for something i mean we're posting you know for something posting you know for something posting you know for something statements all the time statements all the time statements all the time any time any one of us uh get one that any time any one of us uh get one that any time any one of us uh get one that pops into our heads where we're at a pops into our heads where we're at a pops into our heads where we're at a conference or we're reading a book or conference or we're reading a book or conference or we're reading a book or we're doing something and it's like oh we're doing something and it's like oh we're doing something and it's like oh yeah you should be known for this not yeah you should be known for this not yeah you should be known for this not this or you should have this or you this or you should have this or you this or you should have this or you don't want to be known for this like all don't want to be known for this like all don't want to be known for this like all of those be known for something of those be known for something of those be known for something statements we have a google doc that we statements we have a google doc that we statements we have a google doc that we all go in and we just all go in and we just all go in and we just flood those like we have we have flood those like we have we have flood those like we have we have hundreds of those hundreds of those hundreds of those all listed there and then all listed there and then all listed there and then hey our graphic designer anytime that hey our graphic designer anytime that hey our graphic designer anytime that they're like i am in between projects they're like i am in between projects they're like i am in between projects what can i do oh yeah let's do a what can i do oh yeah let's do a what can i do oh yeah let's do a graphic for one of those be known for graphic for one of those be known for graphic for one of those be known for something statements they can be used

something statements they can be used something statements they can be used anytime and then the person who anytime and then the person who anytime and then the person who schedules all of our social media schedules all of our social media schedules all of our social media if they think uh i'm looking for a if they think uh i'm looking for a if they think uh i'm looking for a graphic and i don't know what else we graphic and i don't know what else we graphic and i don't know what else we can do here's a hole then all they do is can do here's a hole then all they do is can do here's a hole then all they do is okay so it's coming in the summer uh okay so it's coming in the summer uh okay so it's coming in the summer uh maybe i should search to be known for maybe i should search to be known for maybe i should search to be known for something for summer or for lull or something for summer or for lull or something for summer or for lull or vacation or or living or something like vacation or or living or something like vacation or or living or something like that so that they can draw on that stuff that so that they can draw on that stuff that so that they can draw on that stuff churches need an evergreen library that churches need an evergreen library that churches need an evergreen library that is just available to them to fill in is just available to them to fill in is just available to them to fill in some of the gaps some of the gaps some of the gaps that is excellent that is that is that is excellent that is that is that is excellent that is that is excellent uh mark excellent uh mark excellent uh mark i'd love to expound on that a little bit i'd love to expound on that a little bit i'd love to expound on that a little bit more but we're going to go ahead and more but we're going to go ahead and more but we're going to go ahead and wrap things up you did uh write a blog wrap things up you did uh write a blog wrap things up you did uh write a blog post or someone on your team wrote a post or someone on your team wrote a post or someone on your team wrote a blog post kind of focused on this blog post kind of focused on this blog post kind of focused on this particular content we'll link to that in particular content we'll link to that in particular content we'll link to that in the show notes um as we wrap things up the show notes um as we wrap things up the show notes um as we wrap things up here today uh any parting shots anything here today uh any parting shots anything here today uh any parting shots anything that you just want to leave our audience that you just want to leave our audience that you just want to leave our audience with before we with before we with before we bid farewell bid farewell bid farewell and i know this is gonna sound like uh and i know this is gonna sound like uh and i know this is gonna sound like uh me pandering just a little bit but me pandering just a little bit but me pandering just a little bit but take time for you take time for you take time for you uh you you've just come through a really uh you you've just come through a really uh you you've just come through a really really busy time really busy time really busy time and and you know and and you know and and you know i'm i'm a driven person i am a i'm i'm a driven person i am a i'm i'm a driven person i am a goal-oriented person and i i love work i goal-oriented person and i i love work i goal-oriented person and i i love work i work far too much but i really really work far too much but i really really work far too much but i really really love it um and many of you are the exact love it um and many of you are the exact love it um and many of you are the exact same way but make sure you're taking the same way but make sure you're taking the same way but make sure you're taking the time for your spouse for your family for

time for your spouse for your family for time for your spouse for your family for you you you and just make sure that you're staying and just make sure that you're staying and just make sure that you're staying in the word in the word in the word and feeding yourself spiritually as well and feeding yourself spiritually as well and feeding yourself spiritually as well awesome advice awesome advice awesome advice hey thanks so much for being on the show hey thanks so much for being on the show hey thanks so much for being on the show really appreciate it and i'm quite really appreciate it and i'm quite really appreciate it and i'm quite confident we'll do it again mark confident we'll do it again mark confident we'll do it again mark macdonald be known for something