Strategies to Expand Your Church's Online Reach | Justin Dean | Season 2, Episode 2

and they have the strategy of okay we and they have the strategy of okay we are going to try and reach literally are going to try and reach literally are going to try and reach literally every nation and he's very strategic every nation and he's very strategic every nation and he's very strategic with the way they target that through with the way they target that through with the way they target that through facebook ads to different countries they facebook ads to different countries they facebook ads to different countries they they look at pockets of the world and they look at pockets of the world and they look at pockets of the world and they say okay this little pocket in they say okay this little pocket in they say okay this little pocket in africa we want to reach it africa we want to reach it africa we want to reach it well hey welcome to season two episode well hey welcome to season two episode well hey welcome to season two episode two of the church growth interviews two of the church growth interviews two of the church growth interviews podcast i'm bart blair joined podcast i'm bart blair joined podcast i'm bart blair joined by jason hamrock we are part of the by jason hamrock we are part of the by jason hamrock we are part of the missional marketing team working with missional marketing team working with missional marketing team working with churches all over the united states and churches all over the united states and churches all over the united states and canada and australia we have a church we canada and australia we have a church we canada and australia we have a church we have one church in australia how many have one church in australia how many have one church in australia how many churches we have in australia yet yeah churches we have in australia yet yeah churches we have in australia yet yeah yeah just yeah just yeah just is it really a job when you just love is it really a job when you just love is it really a job when you just love what you do what you do what you do um um um it's a job but i just love the fact that it's a job but i just love the fact that it's a job but i just love the fact that we get to love our job because not we get to love our job because not we get to love our job because not everyone gets to love their job yeah everyone gets to love their job yeah everyone gets to love their job yeah we wake up every morning and we get to we wake up every morning and we get to we wake up every morning and we get to talk with churches and that's so much talk with churches and that's so much talk with churches and that's so much fun we get to learn a lot what's going fun we get to learn a lot what's going fun we get to learn a lot what's going on in the world of the church world and on in the world of the church world and on in the world of the church world and be able to carry that through to other be able to carry that through to other be able to carry that through to other churches and just share experiences churches and just share experiences churches and just share experiences and that's such a such a great gift from and that's such a such a great gift from and that's such a such a great gift from god to us and so we'd love to share that god to us and so we'd love to share that god to us and so we'd love to share that with you with you with you and today uh you're in for a treat and today uh you're in for a treat and today uh you're in for a treat because we got a guy named justin dean because we got a guy named justin dean because we got a guy named justin dean justin's on our podcast today i'm super justin's on our podcast today i'm super justin's on our podcast today i'm super excited about justin's story so you're excited about justin's story so you're excited about justin's story so you're going to recognize justin when i say going to recognize justin when i say going to recognize justin when i say that church conference anybody recognize that church conference anybody recognize that church conference anybody recognize that church conference that's justin that church conference that's justin that church conference that's justin dean's baby he created that started that dean's baby he created that started that dean's baby he created that started that he he he shares where that's going some big plans shares where that's going some big plans shares where that's going some big plans for that church conference but there's for that church conference but there's for that church conference but there's another uh piece of his background you another uh piece of his background you another uh piece of his background you need to know about need to know about need to know about justin was the director of

justin was the director of justin was the director of communications at mars hill church in communications at mars hill church in communications at mars hill church in seattle and if you know the mars hill seattle and if you know the mars hill seattle and if you know the mars hill story went through a little bit of story went through a little bit of story went through a little bit of transition transition transition a number of years ago and uh justin was a number of years ago and uh justin was a number of years ago and uh justin was in the thick of it and he was there's in the thick of it and he was there's in the thick of it and he was there's front center stage and he had to help front center stage and he had to help front center stage and he had to help navigate through that whole season and navigate through that whole season and navigate through that whole season and so he shared some experiences so he shared some experiences so he shared some experiences about his time at mars hill yeah one of about his time at mars hill yeah one of about his time at mars hill yeah one of the things that justin has done for the the things that justin has done for the the things that justin has done for the local church is he's written a book local church is he's written a book local church is he's written a book called the church pr plan pr meaning called the church pr plan pr meaning called the church pr plan pr meaning public relations justin found himself in public relations justin found himself in public relations justin found himself in a situation where he was dealing with a situation where he was dealing with a situation where he was dealing with some public relations issues that some public relations issues that some public relations issues that no church communications leader would no church communications leader would no church communications leader would ever imagine that they would be facing ever imagine that they would be facing ever imagine that they would be facing and so he's navigated those things he's and so he's navigated those things he's and so he's navigated those things he's provided some insight this is another provided some insight this is another provided some insight this is another one of those little i just put this a one of those little i just put this a one of those little i just put this a notch on my belt i i set a goal last notch on my belt i i set a goal last notch on my belt i i set a goal last year to see how many guests we could get year to see how many guests we could get year to see how many guests we could get on our podcast who have also been on the on our podcast who have also been on the on our podcast who have also been on the carrie newhof leadership podcast and and carrie newhof leadership podcast and and carrie newhof leadership podcast and and justin is another one of those so we're justin is another one of those so we're justin is another one of those so we're up to like four or five now i think and up to like four or five now i think and up to like four or five now i think and we've got a few more on the docket of we've got a few more on the docket of we've got a few more on the docket of people who've been on carry people who've been on carry people who've been on carry maybe one day we'll be as big as gary maybe one day we'll be as big as gary maybe one day we'll be as big as gary newhalf well carrie we would love to newhalf well carrie we would love to newhalf well carrie we would love to have you on the podcast let's just say have you on the podcast let's just say have you on the podcast let's just say that i'd love to have carrie on the that i'd love to have carrie on the that i'd love to have carrie on the podcast he's a great guy i actually met podcast he's a great guy i actually met podcast he's a great guy i actually met him one time in orlando great guy i'd him one time in orlando great guy i'd him one time in orlando great guy i'd love to have him on the podcast but love to have him on the podcast but love to have him on the podcast but yeah i've driven i've driven through yeah i've driven i've driven through yeah i've driven i've driven through barry ontario where he where he lives barry ontario where he where he lives barry ontario where he where he lives because i lived in ontario for about 12 because i lived in ontario for about 12 because i lived in ontario for about 12 years but that's the only connection i years but that's the only connection i years but that's the only connection i have with carrie newhof uh anyway hey have with carrie newhof uh anyway hey have with carrie newhof uh anyway hey thank you for tuning in to our podcast thank you for tuning in to our podcast thank you for tuning in to our podcast um this is like i said the second season um this is like i said the second season um this is like i said the second season uh we did 50 episodes in season one and

uh we did 50 episodes in season one and uh we did 50 episodes in season one and this is the second episode of season two this is the second episode of season two this is the second episode of season two i don't know how many episodes we're i don't know how many episodes we're i don't know how many episodes we're gonna do this season but we're getting gonna do this season but we're getting gonna do this season but we're getting things going and if you haven't things going and if you haven't things going and if you haven't subscribed on the platform that you subscribed on the platform that you subscribed on the platform that you listened to or subscribed on our youtube listened to or subscribed on our youtube listened to or subscribed on our youtube channel we hope that you'll do that if channel we hope that you'll do that if channel we hope that you'll do that if you'll subscribe you won't miss a single you'll subscribe you won't miss a single you'll subscribe you won't miss a single episode and if you'll leave us a rating episode and if you'll leave us a rating episode and if you'll leave us a rating and review that'll really help more and review that'll really help more and review that'll really help more people uh find our podcast uh if there's people uh find our podcast uh if there's people uh find our podcast uh if there's anything that we can do to serve you or anything that we can do to serve you or anything that we can do to serve you or serve your church make sure that you serve your church make sure that you serve your church make sure that you reach out to us um and in the meantime reach out to us um and in the meantime reach out to us um and in the meantime uh here's our interview with justin dean uh here's our interview with justin dean uh here's our interview with justin dean hey justin dean thanks so much for hey justin dean thanks so much for hey justin dean thanks so much for hanging out with jason and me today hanging out with jason and me today hanging out with jason and me today we're really excited to get to know you we're really excited to get to know you we're really excited to get to know you yeah hey guys it's a pleasure to be here yeah hey guys it's a pleasure to be here yeah hey guys it's a pleasure to be here thanks for having me thanks for having me thanks for having me well this is that justin dean well this is that justin dean well this is that justin dean that is your url on your website isn't that is your url on your website isn't that is your url on your website isn't it that just it that just it that just dot com yeah dot com yeah dot com yeah justindeen.com of that church conference justindeen.com of that church conference justindeen.com of that church conference and uh just like to keep it simple with and uh just like to keep it simple with and uh just like to keep it simple with the naming you know the naming you know the naming you know clearly concise clearly concise clearly concise i have to tell you i was actually i have to tell you i was actually i have to tell you i was actually thinking about you the other day because thinking about you the other day because thinking about you the other day because i knew we were having this conversation i knew we were having this conversation i knew we were having this conversation coming up today and i was watching shark coming up today and i was watching shark coming up today and i was watching shark tank and uh there was a woman that has tank and uh there was a woman that has tank and uh there was a woman that has this um this um this um insect repellent thing and and the name insect repellent thing and and the name insect repellent thing and and the name of her device is called that bug thing of her device is called that bug thing of her device is called that bug thing and i said hey that's kind of like that and i said hey that's kind of like that and i said hey that's kind of like that justin dean guy that bug's finished i'm justin dean guy that bug's finished i'm justin dean guy that bug's finished i'm gonna send her a cease and desist right gonna send her a cease and desist right gonna send her a cease and desist right now now now right away right away right away very good very good very good well justin thanks again uh for hanging well justin thanks again uh for hanging well justin thanks again uh for hanging out with us why don't you start just by out with us why don't you start just by out with us why don't you start just by uh uh uh telling your story tell us how you got telling your story tell us how you got telling your story tell us how you got into ministry and uh kind of how your into ministry and uh kind of how your into ministry and uh kind of how your journey has led you up to what you're journey has led you up to what you're journey has led you up to what you're doing today

doing today doing today yeah sure yeah that sounds good i uh yeah sure yeah that sounds good i uh yeah sure yeah that sounds good i uh i have a background in marketing i have a background in marketing i have a background in marketing advertising i kind of work for a handful advertising i kind of work for a handful advertising i kind of work for a handful of tech startups and companies that i've of tech startups and companies that i've of tech startups and companies that i've started and started with friends and started and started with friends and started and started with friends and that kind of led me to a point where i that kind of led me to a point where i that kind of led me to a point where i was offered a job was offered a job was offered a job for a company that was for a company that was for a company that was for sale they were trying to sell the for sale they were trying to sell the for sale they were trying to sell the company was a private cable company and company was a private cable company and company was a private cable company and uh they gave us an offer to say hey can uh they gave us an offer to say hey can uh they gave us an offer to say hey can you come to seattle for you come to seattle for you come to seattle for six months help us sell the company um i six months help us sell the company um i six months help us sell the company um i ran marketing for them and helped them ran marketing for them and helped them ran marketing for them and helped them get a lot more subscribers during that get a lot more subscribers during that get a lot more subscribers during that sale sale sale and uh so you know at the time we were and uh so you know at the time we were and uh so you know at the time we were married i think only a year or two um we married i think only a year or two um we married i think only a year or two um we were having our first kid i just were having our first kid i just were having our first kid i just told my wife i was like hey do you want told my wife i was like hey do you want told my wife i was like hey do you want to go on a little adventure to seattle to go on a little adventure to seattle to go on a little adventure to seattle make a little money and have some fun make a little money and have some fun make a little money and have some fun and and and she was like heck yeah let's go so uh she was like heck yeah let's go so uh she was like heck yeah let's go so uh they sent us out there they sent us out there they sent us out there helped sell the company and then we just helped sell the company and then we just helped sell the company and then we just fell in love with the area like we were fell in love with the area like we were fell in love with the area like we were we were going to a great church in we were going to a great church in we were going to a great church in atlanta where we were living and uh but atlanta where we were living and uh but atlanta where we were living and uh but when we got to seattle we started going when we got to seattle we started going when we got to seattle we started going to mars hill church we really started to mars hill church we really started to mars hill church we really started getting plugged in there getting plugged in there getting plugged in there and uh just love the area seattle is and uh just love the area seattle is and uh just love the area seattle is beautiful and uh so when that company beautiful and uh so when that company beautiful and uh so when that company uh sold we decided let's let's stick it uh sold we decided let's let's stick it uh sold we decided let's let's stick it out here and and uh see what's next i out here and and uh see what's next i out here and and uh see what's next i was applying for jobs at like expedia was applying for jobs at like expedia was applying for jobs at like expedia microsoft and all the big tech companies microsoft and all the big tech companies microsoft and all the big tech companies out there out there out there and uh one thing uh led to another our and uh one thing uh led to another our and uh one thing uh led to another our our lead pastor who was at the campus

our lead pastor who was at the campus our lead pastor who was at the campus that we went to at mars hill that we went to at mars hill that we went to at mars hill said hey we could use a guy with like said hey we could use a guy with like said hey we could use a guy with like your corporate marketing experience your corporate marketing experience your corporate marketing experience for the church like that would be for the church like that would be for the church like that would be amazing you should apply we need a amazing you should apply we need a amazing you should apply we need a marketing manager marketing manager marketing manager and uh so kind of went through that and uh so kind of went through that and uh so kind of went through that process process process god really humbled me to to go into god really humbled me to to go into god really humbled me to to go into ministry and kind of leave you know what ministry and kind of leave you know what ministry and kind of leave you know what we were doing and the money we were we were doing and the money we were we were doing and the money we were making and all that making and all that making and all that and uh we just kind of took a leap of and uh we just kind of took a leap of and uh we just kind of took a leap of faith and made it work faith and made it work faith and made it work and ended up running communications uh and ended up running communications uh and ended up running communications uh for marshall church and mark driscoll for marshall church and mark driscoll for marshall church and mark driscoll and everything that uh we were doing out and everything that uh we were doing out and everything that uh we were doing out there for about five years until uh you there for about five years until uh you there for about five years until uh you know unfortunately the the church closed know unfortunately the the church closed know unfortunately the the church closed that's surprising to anybody they can go that's surprising to anybody they can go that's surprising to anybody they can go google it google it google it it's like it's been six years now i feel it's like it's been six years now i feel it's like it's been six years now i feel like i'm i'm just now getting introduced like i'm i'm just now getting introduced like i'm i'm just now getting introduced to people that are like marcel webb to people that are like marcel webb to people that are like marcel webb never even heard of it i'm like okay never even heard of it i'm like okay never even heard of it i'm like okay it's time it's time we move on so it's time it's time we move on so it's time it's time we move on so um that's kind of how i got into um that's kind of how i got into um that's kind of how i got into ministry when that closed uh ministry when that closed uh ministry when that closed uh i ended up starting a conference called i ended up starting a conference called i ended up starting a conference called that church conference that church conference that church conference and been running that for and been running that for and been running that for six years now and uh we actually just six years now and uh we actually just six years now and uh we actually just just announced that uh just announced that uh just announced that uh the conference has been acquired by the conference has been acquired by the conference has been acquired by tithely uh which is a tithely uh which is a tithely uh which is a church technology company and uh i began church technology company and uh i began church technology company and uh i began working for them as their director of working for them as their director of working for them as their director of marketing and um still get to run the marketing and um still get to run the marketing and um still get to run the conference like we're coming back in conference like we're coming back in conference like we're coming back in person with that soon and person with that soon and person with that soon and it's a really exciting uh kind of stuff it's a really exciting uh kind of stuff it's a really exciting uh kind of stuff i'm working on now just building i'm working on now just building i'm working on now just building building church tech tools

building church tech tools building church tech tools and uh still running the conference and and uh still running the conference and and uh still running the conference and staying a part of that community so staying a part of that community so staying a part of that community so i just love love what i'm doing right i just love love what i'm doing right i just love love what i'm doing right now wow now wow now wow so you have what a great story that's so so you have what a great story that's so so you have what a great story that's so cool and congratulations on on that cool and congratulations on on that cool and congratulations on on that because i you know we've tuned into that because i you know we've tuned into that because i you know we've tuned into that church conference and it's to see that church conference and it's to see that church conference and it's to see that it kind of grow and explode is you know it kind of grow and explode is you know it kind of grow and explode is you know thank you god uh for for that yeah um so thank you god uh for for that yeah um so thank you god uh for for that yeah um so some of the so a lot of the work you do some of the so a lot of the work you do some of the so a lot of the work you do is you know it's for communication is you know it's for communication is you know it's for communication directors church communication directors directors church communication directors directors church communication directors you know i'm a former one you're a you know i'm a former one you're a you know i'm a former one you're a former communication director former communication director former communication director um um um so so so tell me about some of the things that tell me about some of the things that tell me about some of the things that you're dealing with these days as you're you're dealing with these days as you're you're dealing with these days as you're working with church communications what working with church communications what working with church communications what are some of the hurdles some of the pain are some of the hurdles some of the pain are some of the hurdles some of the pain points and what have you seen points and what have you seen points and what have you seen like changing over the last 18 months like changing over the last 18 months like changing over the last 18 months yeah i mean yeah i mean yeah i mean you know you know you know especially coming through through coven especially coming through through coven especially coming through through coven and everything we've uh seen with that i and everything we've uh seen with that i and everything we've uh seen with that i mean churches obviously have had to mean churches obviously have had to mean churches obviously have had to embrace uh embrace uh embrace uh live streaming online giving churches live streaming online giving churches live streaming online giving churches who didn't have a great website before who didn't have a great website before who didn't have a great website before like oh man we need a good website we like oh man we need a good website we like oh man we need a good website we need a social media presence and so need a social media presence and so need a social media presence and so that's that's really accelerated a lot that's that's really accelerated a lot that's that's really accelerated a lot of these of these of these uh kind of digital discussions and how uh kind of digital discussions and how uh kind of digital discussions and how do we reach people when we can't meet in do we reach people when we can't meet in do we reach people when we can't meet in our building type of thing and and now our building type of thing and and now our building type of thing and and now we're seeing okay you know everyone for we're seeing okay you know everyone for we're seeing okay you know everyone for the most part is is back meeting in the most part is is back meeting in the most part is is back meeting in person but person but person but they saw all the value in what they were they saw all the value in what they were they saw all the value in what they were doing online so now they're struggling doing online so now they're struggling doing online so now they're struggling to how do we do both we've still only to how do we do both we've still only to how do we do both we've still only got you know four people on staff and no got you know four people on staff and no got you know four people on staff and no money so money so money so you know how do we actually do both and

you know how do we actually do both and you know how do we actually do both and when you're online it opens up a whole when you're online it opens up a whole when you're online it opens up a whole another spectrum of uh another spectrum of uh another spectrum of uh issues it's like okay now we've got issues it's like okay now we've got issues it's like okay now we've got followers and people who watch us who followers and people who watch us who followers and people who watch us who don't even live near the community that don't even live near the community that don't even live near the community that we serve like do we do we have a we serve like do we do we have a we serve like do we do we have a responsibility to to steward those responsibility to to steward those responsibility to to steward those relationships and disciple them or relationships and disciple them or relationships and disciple them or you know it's all just comes down to you know it's all just comes down to you know it's all just comes down to your strategy and mission and vision and your strategy and mission and vision and your strategy and mission and vision and so so so uh i mean that's a lot of the uh i mean that's a lot of the uh i mean that's a lot of the discussions that we're having with discussions that we're having with discussions that we're having with churches now i mean through through the churches now i mean through through the churches now i mean through through the conference and the community we're part conference and the community we're part conference and the community we're part of the resources we put online of the resources we put online of the resources we put online uh through sunday u and and whatnot it's uh through sunday u and and whatnot it's uh through sunday u and and whatnot it's it's uh it all comes down to how do we it's uh it all comes down to how do we it's uh it all comes down to how do we how do we navigate those waters of how do we navigate those waters of how do we navigate those waters of what should we be doing what what's what should we be doing what what's what should we be doing what what's gonna work well what's gonna have the gonna work well what's gonna have the gonna work well what's gonna have the most impact you know for the church most impact you know for the church most impact you know for the church and we're seeing churches do both some and we're seeing churches do both some and we're seeing churches do both some are like hey we're just ditching are like hey we're just ditching are like hey we're just ditching everything we did online and everything we did online and everything we did online and we're going to focus on uh our services we're going to focus on uh our services we're going to focus on uh our services and our local community and uh i think and our local community and uh i think and our local community and uh i think probably the majority of churches are probably the majority of churches are probably the majority of churches are just trying to figure out how to do both just trying to figure out how to do both just trying to figure out how to do both well because they feel like they can't well because they feel like they can't well because they feel like they can't you know kill what they were doing you know kill what they were doing you know kill what they were doing online and online and online and um so we're just walking them um so we're just walking them um so we're just walking them through that because it's gonna be through that because it's gonna be through that because it's gonna be different per church honestly different per church honestly different per church honestly yeah i i've i've experienced just that yeah i i've i've experienced just that yeah i i've i've experienced just that uh they've uh they've uh they've they had to go into the online thing had they had to go into the online thing had they had to go into the online thing had to didn't didn't have a choice right uh to didn't didn't have a choice right uh to didn't didn't have a choice right uh but but now that they're but but now that they're but but now that they're coming back and you know they're back in coming back and you know they're back in coming back and you know they're back in person for the most part although that's person for the most part although that's person for the most part although that's who knows where that's to go right uh who knows where that's to go right uh who knows where that's to go right uh it's it's it's kind of like that the it's it's it's kind of like that the it's it's it's kind of like that the question i always get is

question i always get is question i always get is you know where do we put our resources you know where do we put our resources you know where do we put our resources because because because if we put them in both if we put them in both if we put them in both we're kind of watering down both so we're kind of watering down both so we're kind of watering down both so any ideas or any advice you'd give us any ideas or any advice you'd give us any ideas or any advice you'd give us you know what kind of advice do you give you know what kind of advice do you give you know what kind of advice do you give a church if they ask that kind of a church if they ask that kind of a church if they ask that kind of question question question well like it well like it well like it it can't be it can't be it can't be one or the other right like you can't one or the other right like you can't one or the other right like you can't you can't shut down your in-person you can't shut down your in-person you can't shut down your in-person services and go strictly online well i services and go strictly online well i services and go strictly online well i mean i i do know one church she's mean i i do know one church she's mean i i do know one church she's actually actually actually kind of doing that which is uh which is kind of doing that which is uh which is kind of doing that which is uh which is funny it's like okay i don't know funny it's like okay i don't know funny it's like okay i don't know you know everyone's got their own their you know everyone's got their own their you know everyone's got their own their own vision and and so you go for it but own vision and and so you go for it but own vision and and so you go for it but i think for the majority of churches i think for the majority of churches i think for the majority of churches it's no that's that's just not an option it's no that's that's just not an option it's no that's that's just not an option like you know in-person services like you know in-person services like you know in-person services gathering in person with our local gathering in person with our local gathering in person with our local community however that looks is uh is community however that looks is uh is community however that looks is uh is kind of the key core product that they kind of the key core product that they kind of the key core product that they offer right um offer right um offer right um the advice the advice the advice advice i give is that hey you you saw advice i give is that hey you you saw advice i give is that hey you you saw the value of what you did online the value of what you did online the value of what you did online it's it comes down to it's it comes down to it's it comes down to what are the goals you have what are the what are the goals you have what are the what are the goals you have what are the strategies you have in place um strategies you have in place um strategies you have in place um i wish churches would i wish churches would i wish churches would have the budget discussion more because have the budget discussion more because have the budget discussion more because i still see i still see i still see the kind of same excuses that we don't the kind of same excuses that we don't the kind of same excuses that we don't have the money to do this like we saw have the money to do this like we saw have the money to do this like we saw you know online giving actually went up you know online giving actually went up you know online giving actually went up or plateaued for 99 of churches over or plateaued for 99 of churches over or plateaued for 99 of churches over you know through through covet it's like you know through through covet it's like you know through through covet it's like so that the money's still there so that the money's still there so that the money's still there except you've saved a ton on except you've saved a ton on except you've saved a ton on you know having to do sunday services you know having to do sunday services you know having to do sunday services like we used to do them um you've

like we used to do them um you've like we used to do them um you've you've saved on uh facilities and stuff you've saved on uh facilities and stuff you've saved on uh facilities and stuff like that nobody's going on global like that nobody's going on global like that nobody's going on global missions right now um i know i know a missions right now um i know i know a missions right now um i know i know a church that has like you know a two church that has like you know a two church that has like you know a two million dollar million dollar million dollar global missions budget they haven't sent global missions budget they haven't sent global missions budget they haven't sent anybody in 18 months now but that's anybody in 18 months now but that's anybody in 18 months now but that's still they're still dumping money into still they're still dumping money into still they're still dumping money into that and they're still planning as soon that and they're still planning as soon that and they're still planning as soon as we can we're gonna start sending as we can we're gonna start sending as we can we're gonna start sending people back to africa and these these people back to africa and these these people back to africa and these these little trips it's like okay i get that i little trips it's like okay i get that i little trips it's like okay i get that i understand understand understand um the emphasis on that totally on board um the emphasis on that totally on board um the emphasis on that totally on board with that but you cannot tell me that with that but you cannot tell me that with that but you cannot tell me that you've got a two million dollar global you've got a two million dollar global you've got a two million dollar global admissions budget but you can't spend 10 admissions budget but you can't spend 10 admissions budget but you can't spend 10 grand over here for grand over here for grand over here for you know online uh services online you know online uh services online you know online uh services online engagement social media things like that engagement social media things like that engagement social media things like that it's it's you got to just look at the it's it's you got to just look at the it's it's you got to just look at the priorities because i think no matter priorities because i think no matter priorities because i think no matter what you can do it it doesn't have to be what you can do it it doesn't have to be what you can do it it doesn't have to be fancy fancy fancy beautifully produced stuff right beautifully produced stuff right beautifully produced stuff right you know you know you know our biggest uh our biggest uh our biggest uh suggestion through covert was yeah you suggestion through covert was yeah you suggestion through covert was yeah you got to figure out how to get online got to figure out how to get online got to figure out how to get online doesn't mean you got to go hire a doesn't mean you got to go hire a doesn't mean you got to go hire a production company and all these cameras production company and all these cameras production company and all these cameras like take out your phone and point it at like take out your phone and point it at like take out your phone and point it at your face your face your face um you know we saw churches when they um you know we saw churches when they um you know we saw churches when they were live streaming for the first time were live streaming for the first time were live streaming for the first time or or first time fully or or first time fully or or first time fully uh the pastor would drive on down to the uh the pastor would drive on down to the uh the pastor would drive on down to the empty church turn the lights on stand on empty church turn the lights on stand on empty church turn the lights on stand on the stage and and film himself in front the stage and and film himself in front the stage and and film himself in front of an empty room and that lasted a few of an empty room and that lasted a few of an empty room and that lasted a few weeks before people were like this is weeks before people were like this is weeks before people were like this is weird like we don't want to stare at an weird like we don't want to stare at an weird like we don't want to stare at an empty room like we empty room like we empty room like we we understand what's going on we understand what's going on we understand what's going on and then you saw pastors okay i can stay and then you saw pastors okay i can stay and then you saw pastors okay i can stay at home i can sit on my couch just like at home i can sit on my couch just like at home i can sit on my couch just like you are and be a little more personal

you are and be a little more personal you are and be a little more personal and i can talk directly to the camera and i can talk directly to the camera and i can talk directly to the camera and and know that 100 of the people and and know that 100 of the people and and know that 100 of the people watching are you know watching are you know watching are you know online and you know they kind of adapted online and you know they kind of adapted online and you know they kind of adapted to that and i think that's just what to that and i think that's just what to that and i think that's just what we've got to continue to look at what we've got to continue to look at what we've got to continue to look at what what's that strategy going forward what's that strategy going forward what's that strategy going forward word of how to make that work it doesn't word of how to make that work it doesn't word of how to make that work it doesn't have to be an expensive have to be an expensive have to be an expensive yeah and i think it's also a matter of yeah and i think it's also a matter of yeah and i think it's also a matter of understanding who your audience is on understanding who your audience is on understanding who your audience is on who you're trying to reach and who you're trying to reach and who you're trying to reach and what do they prefer i was just working what do they prefer i was just working what do they prefer i was just working with a church that's in a really wealthy with a church that's in a really wealthy with a church that's in a really wealthy part of town part of town part of town but uh they're older but uh they're older but uh they're older and so you know connecting with younger and so you know connecting with younger and so you know connecting with younger families there are no younger families families there are no younger families families there are no younger families for the most part but the for the most part but the for the most part but the the reality is though that 60 of the the reality is though that 60 of the the reality is though that 60 of the people that live in that community are people that live in that community are people that live in that community are are unchurched don't have faith are unchurched don't have faith are unchurched don't have faith that's where you can reach people right that's where you can reach people right that's where you can reach people right you don't have to get super creative and you don't have to get super creative and you don't have to get super creative and all just understand who your target all just understand who your target all just understand who your target audience is and go for it audience is and go for it audience is and go for it i i i think that's a really important i i i think that's a really important i i i think that's a really important point that you're making there jason i point that you're making there jason i point that you're making there jason i think think think when churches you know 14 15 months ago when churches you know 14 15 months ago when churches you know 14 15 months ago that had never had an online presence that had never had an online presence that had never had an online presence were pivoting to have were pivoting to have were pivoting to have some sort of online engagement some sort of online engagement some sort of online engagement their primary focus was how do we do their primary focus was how do we do their primary focus was how do we do church for our people online church for our people online church for our people online and now we've reached a point where any and now we've reached a point where any and now we've reached a point where any church that's talking about you know church that's talking about you know church that's talking about you know kind of kind of kind of um maybe pulling back on what they're um maybe pulling back on what they're um maybe pulling back on what they're doing online or even killing it all doing online or even killing it all doing online or even killing it all together together together um are completely missing out on the um are completely missing out on the um are completely missing out on the opportunity to repurpose their online opportunity to repurpose their online opportunity to repurpose their online experience for the people that they

experience for the people that they experience for the people that they haven't yet reached and so you know when haven't yet reached and so you know when haven't yet reached and so you know when i hear about a church that has an i hear about a church that has an i hear about a church that has an international missions budget that international missions budget that international missions budget that they're unable to use you know my first they're unable to use you know my first they're unable to use you know my first inclination is can we use some of that inclination is can we use some of that inclination is can we use some of that for local missions and can we actually for local missions and can we actually for local missions and can we actually try to to actually do local missions try to to actually do local missions try to to actually do local missions online you know i was actually looking online you know i was actually looking online you know i was actually looking at some at some at some analytics uh for a church that that we analytics uh for a church that that we analytics uh for a church that that we work with this morning and you know work with this morning and you know work with this morning and you know they're kind of asking questions about they're kind of asking questions about they're kind of asking questions about website engagement and what's happening website engagement and what's happening website engagement and what's happening and and and the the number one driver of traffic to the the number one driver of traffic to the the number one driver of traffic to their website through the google ad their website through the google ad their website through the google ad grant which is something that we manage grant which is something that we manage grant which is something that we manage for them is people googling church for them is people googling church for them is people googling church online and church live streams and so online and church live streams and so online and church live streams and so even though we're 16 17 months into this even though we're 16 17 months into this even though we're 16 17 months into this many many churches most churches i would many many churches most churches i would many many churches most churches i would say probably have some in-person say probably have some in-person say probably have some in-person gathering happening there are still gathering happening there are still gathering happening there are still people googling every single day church people googling every single day church people googling every single day church online or church live stream and online or church live stream and online or church live stream and uh and so it's kind of you know we've uh and so it's kind of you know we've uh and so it's kind of you know we've had to help churches make this pivot had to help churches make this pivot had to help churches make this pivot from seeing their website as solely from seeing their website as solely from seeing their website as solely something as a communication tool for something as a communication tool for something as a communication tool for their own people uh to now saying your their own people uh to now saying your their own people uh to now saying your live stream isn't just for your own live stream isn't just for your own live stream isn't just for your own people it's actually a great opportunity people it's actually a great opportunity people it's actually a great opportunity for you to reach people that don't yet for you to reach people that don't yet for you to reach people that don't yet know you well and honestly like that's a know you well and honestly like that's a know you well and honestly like that's a great point i mean about using it great point i mean about using it great point i mean about using it locally but you can you can even still locally but you can you can even still locally but you can you can even still stay on the same stay on the same stay on the same strategy and mission to use it globally strategy and mission to use it globally strategy and mission to use it globally uh my friend steve fogg who uh my friend steve fogg who uh my friend steve fogg who is from australia i think he's in the uk is from australia i think he's in the uk is from australia i think he's in the uk now somewhere but uh you know he's now somewhere but uh you know he's now somewhere but uh you know he's online pastor for a church

online pastor for a church online pastor for a church and they they have a global and they they have a global and they they have a global mission to reach you know far and wide mission to reach you know far and wide mission to reach you know far and wide and they have a ton of people you know and they have a ton of people you know and they have a ton of people you know hundreds of thousands of people who hundreds of thousands of people who hundreds of thousands of people who watch their watch their watch their live stream live stream live stream every week from all over the world and every week from all over the world and every week from all over the world and they have this strategy of okay we are they have this strategy of okay we are they have this strategy of okay we are going to try and reach literally every going to try and reach literally every going to try and reach literally every nation and he's very strategic with the nation and he's very strategic with the nation and he's very strategic with the way they target that through facebook way they target that through facebook way they target that through facebook ads to different countries they they ads to different countries they they ads to different countries they they look at pockets of the world and they look at pockets of the world and they look at pockets of the world and they say okay this little pocket in africa we say okay this little pocket in africa we say okay this little pocket in africa we want to reach it and it's interesting want to reach it and it's interesting want to reach it and it's interesting like i've actually been to uganda and uh like i've actually been to uganda and uh like i've actually been to uganda and uh the villages that we the villages that we the villages that we visited visited visited you know none of them have uh shoes you know none of them have uh shoes you know none of them have uh shoes their their houses aren't you know are their their houses aren't you know are their their houses aren't you know are kind of just put together with whatever kind of just put together with whatever kind of just put together with whatever materials they could have they walk materials they could have they walk materials they could have they walk forever to get water and food forever to get water and food forever to get water and food but nearly everybody like even the kids but nearly everybody like even the kids but nearly everybody like even the kids had iphones had iphones had iphones you know somehow they prioritized you know somehow they prioritized you know somehow they prioritized getting iphones they have uh you know getting iphones they have uh you know getting iphones they have uh you know chip cards that they chip cards that they chip cards that they they pay for um the service or they get they pay for um the service or they get they pay for um the service or they get them donated from different companies them donated from different companies them donated from different companies and they're all connected they all use and they're all connected they all use and they're all connected they all use whatsapp like i still am in contact with whatsapp like i still am in contact with whatsapp like i still am in contact with people who live there through the people who live there through the people who live there through the whatsapp app but like you can literally whatsapp app but like you can literally whatsapp app but like you can literally target this village that has really no target this village that has really no target this village that has really no internet access they don't even barely internet access they don't even barely internet access they don't even barely have homes or shoes uh but we can have homes or shoes uh but we can have homes or shoes uh but we can they're watching live streams and and they're watching live streams and and they're watching live streams and and it's we can target that and honestly it's we can target that and honestly it's we can target that and honestly for a hundred dollars you could target for a hundred dollars you could target for a hundred dollars you could target that through facebook ads it's not even that through facebook ads it's not even that through facebook ads it's not even like it's that expensive so the tools like it's that expensive so the tools like it's that expensive so the tools are there to reach the the world we

are there to reach the the world we are there to reach the the world we don't have to physically send a uh you don't have to physically send a uh you don't have to physically send a uh you know a team of 10 people and spend 100 know a team of 10 people and spend 100 know a team of 10 people and spend 100 grand to go and do that for you know a grand to go and do that for you know a grand to go and do that for you know a week we could do it every day week we could do it every day week we could do it every day all throughout the year and it really all throughout the year and it really all throughout the year and it really doesn't cost that much money you know doesn't cost that much money you know doesn't cost that much money you know hey bart blair here i'm the producer of hey bart blair here i'm the producer of hey bart blair here i'm the producer of missional marketing's church growth missional marketing's church growth missional marketing's church growth interviews podcast thanks so much for interviews podcast thanks so much for interviews podcast thanks so much for tuning in tuning in tuning in additional marketing we're passionate additional marketing we're passionate additional marketing we're passionate about helping churches reach more people about helping churches reach more people about helping churches reach more people for jesus online and one of the ways for jesus online and one of the ways for jesus online and one of the ways that we do that is by helping churches that we do that is by helping churches that we do that is by helping churches acquire more new visitors to their acquire more new visitors to their acquire more new visitors to their website utilizing the google ad grant website utilizing the google ad grant website utilizing the google ad grant google offers qualifying non-profits google offers qualifying non-profits google offers qualifying non-profits including churches up to ten thousand including churches up to ten thousand including churches up to ten thousand dollars a month in advertising that dollars a month in advertising that dollars a month in advertising that means that you as a church could be means that you as a church could be means that you as a church could be using google as one of your primary using google as one of your primary using google as one of your primary digital outreach strategies to digital outreach strategies to digital outreach strategies to communicate the gospel and reach more communicate the gospel and reach more communicate the gospel and reach more people in your community if you'd like people in your community if you'd like people in your community if you'd like to learn more visit our website to learn more visit our website to learn more visit our website admissionalmarketing.com admissionalmarketing.com admissionalmarketing.com and click the link at the top of the and click the link at the top of the and click the link at the top of the page that says google grant we'd love an page that says google grant we'd love an page that says google grant we'd love an opportunity to partner with you in your opportunity to partner with you in your opportunity to partner with you in your mission to build god's kingdom here on mission to build god's kingdom here on mission to build god's kingdom here on earth well thanks again for listening to earth well thanks again for listening to earth well thanks again for listening to our podcast and now back to the show uh our podcast and now back to the show uh our podcast and now back to the show uh okay so i'm going to turn the corner a okay so i'm going to turn the corner a okay so i'm going to turn the corner a little bit here so you have you have you little bit here so you have you have you little bit here so you have you have you wrote a book wrote a book wrote a book uh you got a lot of experience as a uh you got a lot of experience as a uh you got a lot of experience as a communication director you got this communication director you got this communication director you got this amazing conference uh amazing conference uh amazing conference uh between you and me we i think we know between you and me we i think we know between you and me we i think we know the answer this but i'm really curious the answer this but i'm really curious the answer this but i'm really curious to hear what you have to say about it to hear what you have to say about it to hear what you have to say about it but what you know a lot of the people but what you know a lot of the people but what you know a lot of the people that listen to this this podcast that listen to this this podcast that listen to this this podcast are in church communications either you are in church communications either you are in church communications either you know they're they're the director or know they're they're the director or know they're they're the director or they do some kind of uh you know social they do some kind of uh you know social they do some kind of uh you know social media or marketing or they media or marketing or they media or marketing or they build web or whatever they do for their

build web or whatever they do for their build web or whatever they do for their church church church yeah what would you say are some of the yeah what would you say are some of the yeah what would you say are some of the the key skill sets the key skill sets the key skill sets that you need to possess that every that you need to possess that every that you need to possess that every church communication church communication church communication person should be developing person should be developing person should be developing especially these days right especially these days right especially these days right yeah i mean you know you guys know this yeah i mean you know you guys know this yeah i mean you know you guys know this well with what you do but i think in well with what you do but i think in well with what you do but i think in general a church communications person general a church communications person general a church communications person uh they really need to be marketing uh they really need to be marketing uh they really need to be marketing professionals you know it's more than professionals you know it's more than professionals you know it's more than just updating the just updating the just updating the the bulletin or helping you know the bulletin or helping you know the bulletin or helping you know distribute the sermon each week it it's distribute the sermon each week it it's distribute the sermon each week it it's content creation it's content marketing content creation it's content marketing content creation it's content marketing it's social media public relations it's social media public relations it's social media public relations crisis management definitely comes into crisis management definitely comes into crisis management definitely comes into it you don't wanna put that on the back it you don't wanna put that on the back it you don't wanna put that on the back burner been there uh advertising burner been there uh advertising burner been there uh advertising promotion uh like you've gotta dabble promotion uh like you've gotta dabble promotion uh like you've gotta dabble in all of that uh at the very least and in all of that uh at the very least and in all of that uh at the very least and churches are just they're so far behind churches are just they're so far behind churches are just they're so far behind on this stuff still uh it's definitely on this stuff still uh it's definitely on this stuff still uh it's definitely come a long way but um come a long way but um come a long way but um you know churches pastors are one of the you know churches pastors are one of the you know churches pastors are one of the best content creators out there we've best content creators out there we've best content creators out there we've got weekly sermon content we've got uh got weekly sermon content we've got uh got weekly sermon content we've got uh recurring events uh almost every week recurring events uh almost every week recurring events uh almost every week and and season uh you got ministries you and and season uh you got ministries you and and season uh you got ministries you got classes got classes got classes uh it's all consistent it's all weekly uh it's all consistent it's all weekly uh it's all consistent it's all weekly but hardly anyone is is using that but hardly anyone is is using that but hardly anyone is is using that content to reach more people it's all content to reach more people it's all content to reach more people it's all about sunday morning and it's like man about sunday morning and it's like man about sunday morning and it's like man we have all this content that we're we have all this content that we're we have all this content that we're already producing already producing already producing uh what can we do that how can we create uh what can we do that how can we create uh what can we do that how can we create lead magnets out of that how can we lead magnets out of that how can we lead magnets out of that how can we optimize it for content marketing and optimize it for content marketing and optimize it for content marketing and seo and pick up those searches and use

seo and pick up those searches and use seo and pick up those searches and use the google grant to to accelerate that the google grant to to accelerate that the google grant to to accelerate that um there's just so much opportunity and um there's just so much opportunity and um there's just so much opportunity and churches churches churches um just really aren't focusing their um just really aren't focusing their um just really aren't focusing their people and resources people and resources people and resources on this like a business would and uh and on this like a business would and uh and on this like a business would and uh and they're so so afraid of even being they're so so afraid of even being they're so so afraid of even being looked at as a business that they're looked at as a business that they're looked at as a business that they're they're scared to jump into it um but i they're scared to jump into it um but i they're scared to jump into it um but i think they could really think they could really think they could really really have some big wins if their really have some big wins if their really have some big wins if their communications people were empowered and communications people were empowered and communications people were empowered and equipped and equipped and equipped and educated to just really be you know a educated to just really be you know a educated to just really be you know a full-on marketing director like full-on marketing director like full-on marketing director like communications in my mind should almost communications in my mind should almost communications in my mind should almost follow follow follow fall under marketing fall under marketing fall under marketing absolutely yeah i i would agree with you absolutely yeah i i would agree with you absolutely yeah i i would agree with you in fact you you went there with my next in fact you you went there with my next in fact you you went there with my next question which was really how does an question which was really how does an question which was really how does an executive team kind of support that well executive team kind of support that well executive team kind of support that well you support it through first of all you support it through first of all you support it through first of all budget we've already talked about that i budget we've already talked about that i budget we've already talked about that i mean you can't do this without any money mean you can't do this without any money mean you can't do this without any money you have to invest money but resources you have to invest money but resources you have to invest money but resources like you know people a technology like you know people a technology like you know people a technology vendors you know it's not like you have vendors you know it's not like you have vendors you know it's not like you have to hire a whole huge staff there's so to hire a whole huge staff there's so to hire a whole huge staff there's so many people out there like you and i many people out there like you and i many people out there like you and i that we do this for a living and so you that we do this for a living and so you that we do this for a living and so you know a little bit of a budget will go a know a little bit of a budget will go a know a little bit of a budget will go a long way when you hire an expert who can long way when you hire an expert who can long way when you hire an expert who can who can go deep with you on that you who can go deep with you on that you who can go deep with you on that you know so i think those are those are know so i think those are those are know so i think those are those are other important aspects yeah i mean you other important aspects yeah i mean you other important aspects yeah i mean you can't can't can't so often too often we see so often too often we see so often too often we see uh you know okay who who who's in charge uh you know okay who who who's in charge uh you know okay who who who's in charge of your website oh the the worship of your website oh the the worship of your website oh the the worship pastor you know he doesn't really pastor you know he doesn't really pastor you know he doesn't really do much he's got some extra time through do much he's got some extra time through do much he's got some extra time through the throughout the week he he manages the throughout the week he he manages the throughout the week he he manages the the website because he's 25 and that

the the website because he's 25 and that the the website because he's 25 and that made sense you know this made sense you know this made sense you know this it's like and uh or you know the the it's like and uh or you know the the it's like and uh or you know the the admin or the secretary or whoever is in admin or the secretary or whoever is in admin or the secretary or whoever is in charge of the bulletin and the messaging charge of the bulletin and the messaging charge of the bulletin and the messaging and updating things and it's like okay i and updating things and it's like okay i and updating things and it's like okay i get it like it get it like it get it like it at some point at some point at some point you've got to just have people do the you've got to just have people do the you've got to just have people do the work i get it but you can't like that work i get it but you can't like that work i get it but you can't like that can't be a a bigger picture thing like can't be a a bigger picture thing like can't be a a bigger picture thing like you need a communications person you you need a communications person you you need a communications person you need a marketing person you need to have need a marketing person you need to have need a marketing person you need to have somebody somebody somebody owning this stuff and making uh use of owning this stuff and making uh use of owning this stuff and making uh use of it because there's there's honestly just it because there's there's honestly just it because there's there's honestly just way too much opportunity uh that the way too much opportunity uh that the way too much opportunity uh that the church is is just leaving on the table church is is just leaving on the table church is is just leaving on the table yeah i think a lot of church yeah i think a lot of church yeah i think a lot of church communications people or even if they're communications people or even if they're communications people or even if they're just a part-time communications person just a part-time communications person just a part-time communications person they're not even really sure where to they're not even really sure where to they're not even really sure where to look for resources and for help and you look for resources and for help and you look for resources and for help and you know we're we're we're big fans of uh know we're we're we're big fans of uh know we're we're we're big fans of uh you know katie allred and kenny zhang you know katie allred and kenny zhang you know katie allred and kenny zhang and the you know church communications and the you know church communications and the you know church communications team and greg atkins greg atkinson's team and greg atkins greg atkinson's team and greg atkins greg atkinson's groups on you know social media and groups on you know social media and groups on you know social media and there's a lot of inside the church there's a lot of inside the church there's a lot of inside the church resources and even the stuff that you do resources and even the stuff that you do resources and even the stuff that you do is great for inside the church but i'll is great for inside the church but i'll is great for inside the church but i'll be honest with you everything i know be honest with you everything i know be honest with you everything i know about marketing i learned on hubspot about marketing i learned on hubspot about marketing i learned on hubspot you know i'm a hubspot youtube guy i you know i'm a hubspot youtube guy i you know i'm a hubspot youtube guy i just i'm like i need to learn something just i'm like i need to learn something just i'm like i need to learn something if it's not a free tutorial or lesson on if it's not a free tutorial or lesson on if it's not a free tutorial or lesson on hubspot i go to youtube and then i'm hubspot i go to youtube and then i'm hubspot i go to youtube and then i'm just taking what i'm learning there just taking what i'm learning there just taking what i'm learning there and trying to apply it in the context of and trying to apply it in the context of and trying to apply it in the context of the local church you know you talked the local church you know you talked the local church you know you talked about about about you know lead generators and repurposing you know lead generators and repurposing you know lead generators and repurposing content and that's something that i've content and that's something that i've content and that's something that i've been kind of preaching at churches here been kind of preaching at churches here been kind of preaching at churches here for the last couple of years and going

for the last couple of years and going for the last couple of years and going you know you know you know personal data that email address is far personal data that email address is far personal data that email address is far more valuable than you know you know more valuable than you know you know more valuable than you know you know your email list is the most important your email list is the most important your email list is the most important tool that you have that you're not tool that you have that you're not tool that you have that you're not effectively using what kinds of things effectively using what kinds of things effectively using what kinds of things can we learn about what's happening in can we learn about what's happening in can we learn about what's happening in in the the in the the in the the non-church marketing world that we can non-church marketing world that we can non-church marketing world that we can leverage to initiate and build leverage to initiate and build leverage to initiate and build relationships with people for the relationships with people for the relationships with people for the kingdom and uh i think there's just a kingdom and uh i think there's just a kingdom and uh i think there's just a world of resources out there that world of resources out there that world of resources out there that churches can and should tap into yeah i churches can and should tap into yeah i churches can and should tap into yeah i mean you know mean you know mean you know you put out you put out you put out they've discovered okay we need to be they've discovered okay we need to be they've discovered okay we need to be online we need to be advertising but online we need to be advertising but online we need to be advertising but then it all comes down to you know come then it all comes down to you know come then it all comes down to you know come to church on sunday that's the message i to church on sunday that's the message i to church on sunday that's the message i keep putting out or come to this next keep putting out or come to this next keep putting out or come to this next event and event and event and i think what would be more effective is i think what would be more effective is i think what would be more effective is okay spend spend some resources and time okay spend spend some resources and time okay spend spend some resources and time to build to build to build uh like a lead magnet ebook of uh you uh like a lead magnet ebook of uh you uh like a lead magnet ebook of uh you know i don't know the seven know i don't know the seven know i don't know the seven uh seven fun things to do in x city you uh seven fun things to do in x city you uh seven fun things to do in x city you know whatever city you're in like how know whatever city you're in like how know whatever city you're in like how easy would it be to put that together easy would it be to put that together easy would it be to put that together something like you know the top 10 something like you know the top 10 something like you know the top 10 restaurants in next city or whatever restaurants in next city or whatever restaurants in next city or whatever have that as a download run a facebook have that as a download run a facebook have that as a download run a facebook ad for 50 bucks where people can ad for 50 bucks where people can ad for 50 bucks where people can download that they got to put in their download that they got to put in their download that they got to put in their email to get it now you've got their email to get it now you've got their email to get it now you've got their email address you can start sending them email address you can start sending them email address you can start sending them uh you know different content a weekly uh you know different content a weekly uh you know different content a weekly newsletter or something like that um you newsletter or something like that um you newsletter or something like that um you know it all can be very subtle just you know it all can be very subtle just you know it all can be very subtle just you know brought to you by put together by know brought to you by put together by know brought to you by put together by you know hope baptist church or whatever you know hope baptist church or whatever you know hope baptist church or whatever right um like i don't know like that's right um like i don't know like that's right um like i don't know like that's you know one example there's so much you you know one example there's so much you you know one example there's so much you can you can do along those lines of

can you can do along those lines of can you can do along those lines of let's try to bring value to the let's try to bring value to the let's try to bring value to the community through the content that we community through the content that we community through the content that we put out um don't just post your put out um don't just post your put out um don't just post your hour-long sermon break it up into a clip hour-long sermon break it up into a clip hour-long sermon break it up into a clip on different different topics and put on different different topics and put on different different topics and put that out that out that out and just provide value try to capture and just provide value try to capture and just provide value try to capture those emails and then just start those emails and then just start those emails and then just start continuing the conversation with people continuing the conversation with people continuing the conversation with people and they're going to keep consuming your and they're going to keep consuming your and they're going to keep consuming your content they're going to come to church content they're going to come to church content they're going to come to church you know you may may end up helping them you know you may may end up helping them you know you may may end up helping them find another church near them and i find another church near them and i find another church near them and i think that's fine it's like isn't that think that's fine it's like isn't that think that's fine it's like isn't that kind of kind of kind of the broader vision anyway like yeah the broader vision anyway like yeah the broader vision anyway like yeah we're all on the same team we're all on the same team we're all on the same team yeah yeah yeah yeah and i think it's uh i always kind yeah and i think it's uh i always kind yeah and i think it's uh i always kind of paint the picture of if you got this of paint the picture of if you got this of paint the picture of if you got this bullseye you know on the target yeah we bullseye you know on the target yeah we bullseye you know on the target yeah we want to hit the bullseye because the want to hit the bullseye because the want to hit the bullseye because the bullseye might be there you know they bullseye might be there you know they bullseye might be there you know they they've accepted jesus they're following they've accepted jesus they're following they've accepted jesus they're following him and they're they're doing at your him and they're they're doing at your him and they're they're doing at your church like they're bought in and church like they're bought in and church like they're bought in and they're you know being discipled all they're you know being discipled all they're you know being discipled all that yeah but you can't expect that to that yeah but you can't expect that to that yeah but you can't expect that to be that every single time sometimes be that every single time sometimes be that every single time sometimes they're way out on the on the fray on they're way out on the on the fray on they're way out on the on the fray on the outs edges right because they've got the outs edges right because they've got the outs edges right because they've got a a a a problem with their marriage or a problem with their marriage or a problem with their marriage or something and if you can just speak into something and if you can just speak into something and if you can just speak into and help them hey and help them hey and help them hey awesome of course you want to try to awesome of course you want to try to awesome of course you want to try to lead them closer and closer and closer lead them closer and closer and closer lead them closer and closer and closer but but but that actually i think so many churches that actually i think so many churches that actually i think so many churches think just get to the bull's-eye well think just get to the bull's-eye well think just get to the bull's-eye well and we're and we're and we're it's because we're measuring the wrong it's because we're measuring the wrong it's because we're measuring the wrong things and we're being asked to measure things and we're being asked to measure things and we're being asked to measure the wrong things the lead pastor is the wrong things the lead pastor is the wrong things the lead pastor is saying saying saying you know hey there's only 100 people on you know hey there's only 100 people on you know hey there's only 100 people on sundays nobody's coming back after covid sundays nobody's coming back after covid sundays nobody's coming back after covid like everything's a failure we need to like everything's a failure we need to like everything's a failure we need to kick up you know communications kick up you know communications kick up you know communications marketing get more people marketing get more people marketing get more people here on sunday and it's like okay that's

here on sunday and it's like okay that's here on sunday and it's like okay that's that's a goal sure that that's that's that's a goal sure that that's that's that's a goal sure that that's that's something that is important i understand something that is important i understand something that is important i understand that but what if what if i give you a that but what if what if i give you a that but what if what if i give you a report every week as a you know pretend report every week as a you know pretend report every week as a you know pretend you're lead pastor i'm a communications you're lead pastor i'm a communications you're lead pastor i'm a communications guy i'm giving you a report every week guy i'm giving you a report every week guy i'm giving you a report every week okay yeah we we had a hundred people okay yeah we we had a hundred people okay yeah we we had a hundred people there on sunday that's not great we used there on sunday that's not great we used there on sunday that's not great we used to have 500 but look at these next to have 500 but look at these next to have 500 but look at these next metrics because of what we're doing metrics because of what we're doing metrics because of what we're doing online online online 47 people declared that they got saved 47 people declared that they got saved 47 people declared that they got saved uh two people were talking about their uh two people were talking about their uh two people were talking about their marriage problems and we were able to marriage problems and we were able to marriage problems and we were able to connect them with the counselor this guy connect them with the counselor this guy connect them with the counselor this guy facebook messaged us and was about to facebook messaged us and was about to facebook messaged us and was about to commit suicide but we were able to talk commit suicide but we were able to talk commit suicide but we were able to talk to him and a pastor went out and had to him and a pastor went out and had to him and a pastor went out and had coffee with him like if if you got a coffee with him like if if you got a coffee with him like if if you got a report like that as a lead pastor you'd report like that as a lead pastor you'd report like that as a lead pastor you'd be like oh my gosh we're doing we're be like oh my gosh we're doing we're be like oh my gosh we're doing we're doing amazing doing amazing doing amazing like god is moving great things are like god is moving great things are like god is moving great things are happening through this church who cares happening through this church who cares happening through this church who cares if we only have a hundred people on if we only have a hundred people on if we only have a hundred people on sunday right you would begin to see okay sunday right you would begin to see okay sunday right you would begin to see okay we maybe we should just dump everything we maybe we should just dump everything we maybe we should just dump everything into online and put more resources into online and put more resources into online and put more resources behind that because that's where we're behind that because that's where we're behind that because that's where we're seeing the fruit problem is nobody's seeing the fruit problem is nobody's seeing the fruit problem is nobody's creating reports like that nobody's creating reports like that nobody's creating reports like that nobody's measuring that stuff nobody's being measuring that stuff nobody's being measuring that stuff nobody's being equipped or authorized to even equipped or authorized to even equipped or authorized to even uh you know create reports like that and uh you know create reports like that and uh you know create reports like that and i think that that's where we're really i think that that's where we're really i think that that's where we're really really missing out on a ton of really missing out on a ton of really missing out on a ton of opportunity oh i think i think there's opportunity oh i think i think there's opportunity oh i think i think there's some i think there's some generational some i think there's some generational some i think there's some generational challenge there as well and i'll say you challenge there as well and i'll say you challenge there as well and i'll say you know i'm i'm i'm you know i'm i'm 51 um know i'm i'm i'm you know i'm i'm 51 um know i'm i'm i'm you know i'm i'm 51 um i'm not you know a digital native uh i i'm not you know a digital native uh i i'm not you know a digital native uh i am a former pastor and am a former pastor and am a former pastor and i will tell you and and prior to uh i will tell you and and prior to uh i will tell you and and prior to uh going into ministry i was in the going into ministry i was in the going into ministry i was in the performing arts so i was a musician and

performing arts so i was a musician and performing arts so i was a musician and an actor and so uh an actor and so uh an actor and so uh there is something i i did some you know there is something i i did some you know there is something i i did some you know some some some video works and you know television film video works and you know television film video works and you know television film type stuff early in my professional type stuff early in my professional type stuff early in my professional career i never loved that as much as i career i never loved that as much as i career i never loved that as much as i loved being on stage in front of people loved being on stage in front of people loved being on stage in front of people and that translated to years later being and that translated to years later being and that translated to years later being a worship leader and eventually a senior a worship leader and eventually a senior a worship leader and eventually a senior pastor and preaching in front of a crowd pastor and preaching in front of a crowd pastor and preaching in front of a crowd is a completely different experience is a completely different experience is a completely different experience than preaching to a camera and i'm than preaching to a camera and i'm than preaching to a camera and i'm watching now and i'm seeing younger watching now and i'm seeing younger watching now and i'm seeing younger pastors embrace pastors embrace pastors embrace youtube and embrace you know the whole youtube and embrace you know the whole youtube and embrace you know the whole video piece at a much greater level than video piece at a much greater level than video piece at a much greater level than those of us who are a little you know a those of us who are a little you know a those of us who are a little you know a little older and so i see that there's little older and so i see that there's little older and so i see that there's there's some generational things there there's some generational things there there's some generational things there that we're still kind of pushing up that we're still kind of pushing up that we're still kind of pushing up against and trying to help churches with against and trying to help churches with against and trying to help churches with an older executive team and when i say an older executive team and when i say an older executive team and when i say older they could be in their late 40s older they could be in their late 40s older they could be in their late 40s and 50s like me they're not necessarily and 50s like me they're not necessarily and 50s like me they're not necessarily old i don't think i'm old if i'm old old i don't think i'm old if i'm old old i don't think i'm old if i'm old jason's old uh so jason's old uh so jason's old uh so so you know i don't consider myself an so you know i don't consider myself an so you know i don't consider myself an old guy but generationally you know when old guy but generationally you know when old guy but generationally you know when i'm working with church planters that i'm working with church planters that i'm working with church planters that are you know 28 29 30 years old and they are you know 28 29 30 years old and they are you know 28 29 30 years old and they are digital natives they they don't are digital natives they they don't are digital natives they they don't remember not having a cell phone it's a remember not having a cell phone it's a remember not having a cell phone it's a completely different uh it's a completely different uh it's a completely different uh it's a completely different ball of axe completely different ball of axe completely different ball of axe yeah no i that's a really great point i yeah no i that's a really great point i yeah no i that's a really great point i think you're you're right on and we've think you're you're right on and we've think you're you're right on and we've got to navigate those got to navigate those got to navigate those type of things but type of things but type of things but you know it that's where you know it that's where you know it that's where that's where we really needed you know that's where we really needed you know that's where we really needed you know guys like like me and you guys need to guys like like me and you guys need to guys like like me and you guys need to really really really drive that home with the senior leader

drive that home with the senior leader drive that home with the senior leader uh you know the the older crowd that's uh you know the the older crowd that's uh you know the the older crowd that's kind of still doing things the the way kind of still doing things the the way kind of still doing things the the way we always have we always have we always have um you know a lot of what we do is just um you know a lot of what we do is just um you know a lot of what we do is just trying to turn that conversation around trying to turn that conversation around trying to turn that conversation around and show the the value of what can be and show the the value of what can be and show the the value of what can be done and it comes down to literally done and it comes down to literally done and it comes down to literally creating reports like that should show creating reports like that should show creating reports like that should show the data like you show a lead past or the data like you show a lead past or the data like you show a lead past or something like that that's when it comes something like that that's when it comes something like that that's when it comes down to that's all they care about and down to that's all they care about and down to that's all they care about and you've got to dig in and think why do you've got to dig in and think why do you've got to dig in and think why do they care so much about filling the they care so much about filling the they care so much about filling the seats on sunday it's because they want seats on sunday it's because they want seats on sunday it's because they want to see lives transformed they want to to see lives transformed they want to to see lives transformed they want to see see see people come to christ they want to see people come to christ they want to see people come to christ they want to see people get baptized they have an people get baptized they have an people get baptized they have an emphasis on the sacraments and that's emphasis on the sacraments and that's emphasis on the sacraments and that's very important we understand that very important we understand that very important we understand that biblically so how do everything that i biblically so how do everything that i biblically so how do everything that i want to do digitally how can that want to do digitally how can that want to do digitally how can that support that instead of you know butt up support that instead of you know butt up support that instead of you know butt up against it and just working with them in against it and just working with them in against it and just working with them in that way but showing the data to show that way but showing the data to show that way but showing the data to show hey this is what we can actually hey this is what we can actually hey this is what we can actually do um and then going from there and if do um and then going from there and if do um and then going from there and if it comes down to nope we don't want to it comes down to nope we don't want to it comes down to nope we don't want to do any of that i don't care that we i do any of that i don't care that we i do any of that i don't care that we i don't care that 47 people got saved don't care that 47 people got saved don't care that 47 people got saved online we want them to get saved in our online we want them to get saved in our online we want them to get saved in our church church church then it's a different conversation and then it's a different conversation and then it's a different conversation and yeah i find a yeah i find a yeah i find a church with a different leader you might church with a different leader you might church with a different leader you might be looking for a new job yeah be looking for a new job yeah be looking for a new job yeah so so you guys so uh so so you guys so uh so so you guys so uh let's go back to mars hill you you know let's go back to mars hill you you know let's go back to mars hill you you know you guys were doing church online back you guys were doing church online back you guys were doing church online back in the day way before the big wave in the day way before the big wave in the day way before the big wave what kind of things would you what kind of things would you what kind of things would you what would you have changed now or or what would you have changed now or or what would you have changed now or or what kind of advice can you give knowing what kind of advice can you give knowing what kind of advice can you give knowing what you know what you know what you know yeah i mean we definitely focused on uh yeah i mean we definitely focused on uh yeah i mean we definitely focused on uh church online a ton we were we were one

church online a ton we were we were one church online a ton we were we were one of the first churches to to really of the first churches to to really of the first churches to to really to really do that i mean even early on to really do that i mean even early on to really do that i mean even early on before my time there um you know before my time there um you know before my time there um you know if not the first one of the first church if not the first one of the first church if not the first one of the first church i know i know i know larry osborne was very involved now larry osborne was very involved now larry osborne was very involved now north coast and uh even uh at uh bill north coast and uh even uh at uh bill north coast and uh even uh at uh bill hybel's church i mean there was all kind hybel's church i mean there was all kind hybel's church i mean there was all kind of influences there and so of influences there and so of influences there and so um i mean 90 of like what my department um i mean 90 of like what my department um i mean 90 of like what my department did was was support our online efforts did was was support our online efforts did was was support our online efforts um we reached a massive um we reached a massive um we reached a massive audience all over the world so i i think audience all over the world so i i think audience all over the world so i i think the the key you know again for churches the the key you know again for churches the the key you know again for churches is just focusing on it prioritizing it is just focusing on it prioritizing it is just focusing on it prioritizing it you can't just you can't just you can't just wait for that influence or an audience wait for that influence or an audience wait for that influence or an audience to to happen you have to deliberately go to to happen you have to deliberately go to to happen you have to deliberately go after that we we certainly had after that we we certainly had after that we we certainly had put a ton behind making that happen um i put a ton behind making that happen um i put a ton behind making that happen um i think where we got in trouble or think where we got in trouble or think where we got in trouble or struggled was just how to differentiate struggled was just how to differentiate struggled was just how to differentiate between uh like our global uh between uh like our global uh between uh like our global uh online audience and our local churches online audience and our local churches online audience and our local churches and so and so and so it was almost like two different visions it was almost like two different visions it was almost like two different visions or two different missions we were very or two different missions we were very or two different missions we were very much all about the local church getting much all about the local church getting much all about the local church getting people people people uh into church but we love being able to uh into church but we love being able to uh into church but we love being able to influence the world and reach people influence the world and reach people influence the world and reach people uh you know with great biblical content uh you know with great biblical content uh you know with great biblical content in so many different countries we in so many different countries we in so many different countries we literally had literally had literally had uh uh uh when we when we first started tracking i when we when we first started tracking i when we when we first started tracking i remember this because we weren't even remember this because we weren't even remember this because we weren't even tracking it and we built all these tools tracking it and we built all these tools tracking it and we built all these tools to track it and we were just watching to track it and we were just watching to track it and we were just watching week after week how many people were week after week how many people were week after week how many people were actually engaging on our website uh actually engaging on our website uh actually engaging on our website uh watching these videos um you know just

watching these videos um you know just watching these videos um you know just the recordings of the sermons and we the recordings of the sermons and we the recordings of the sermons and we were we were getting consistently were we were getting consistently were we were getting consistently uh 250 000 people uh watching the uh 250 000 people uh watching the uh 250 000 people uh watching the sermons every week from all over the sermons every week from all over the sermons every week from all over the world it was just insane like churches world it was just insane like churches world it was just insane like churches even today just don't even even today just don't even even today just don't even touch that like it's it's crazy how many touch that like it's it's crazy how many touch that like it's it's crazy how many people people people uh were engaging with that content and uh were engaging with that content and uh were engaging with that content and so so so um you know we we took that and we we um you know we we took that and we we um you know we we took that and we we planted churches with that um and tried planted churches with that um and tried planted churches with that um and tried to kind of combine these missions but we to kind of combine these missions but we to kind of combine these missions but we didn't have that plan didn't have that plan didn't have that plan uh when we began and so i think that's uh when we began and so i think that's uh when we began and so i think that's where where it struggled the messaging where where it struggled the messaging where where it struggled the messaging struggled all of our marketing struggled struggled all of our marketing struggled struggled all of our marketing struggled with it and with it and with it and and uh it became a mess but what we did and uh it became a mess but what we did and uh it became a mess but what we did is we kind of looked at okay who who's is we kind of looked at okay who who's is we kind of looked at okay who who's been watching us online and where are been watching us online and where are been watching us online and where are they where are they located they where are they located they where are they located uh where are they consuming that content uh where are they consuming that content uh where are they consuming that content we would narrow it down by location and we would narrow it down by location and we would narrow it down by location and what we saw that a ton of people uh like what we saw that a ton of people uh like what we saw that a ton of people uh like for example our portland campus when we for example our portland campus when we for example our portland campus when we launched that church launched that church launched that church we saw that a ton of people were we saw that a ton of people were we saw that a ton of people were watching watching watching every week consistently from the every week consistently from the every week consistently from the portland oregon area and so we started a portland oregon area and so we started a portland oregon area and so we started a team down in portland team down in portland team down in portland and we made plans uh you know for that and we made plans uh you know for that and we made plans uh you know for that and we said okay you know we're we're and we said okay you know we're we're and we said okay you know we're we're going to send a we're going to train up going to send a we're going to train up going to send a we're going to train up a lead pastor we're going to send him a lead pastor we're going to send him a lead pastor we're going to send him down there he's going to start down there he's going to start down there he's going to start uh by getting these people into home uh by getting these people into home uh by getting these people into home community groups and so we put the community groups and so we put the community groups and so we put the message out there hey we're starting message out there hey we're starting message out there hey we're starting community groups in the portland area community groups in the portland area community groups in the portland area they used they would meet weekly and we they used they would meet weekly and we they used they would meet weekly and we said okay when we get 100 said okay when we get 100 said okay when we get 100 100 people

100 people 100 people meeting regularly in person in their meeting regularly in person in their meeting regularly in person in their homes watching the sermon discussing the homes watching the sermon discussing the homes watching the sermon discussing the questions then we'll plant the church questions then we'll plant the church questions then we'll plant the church there that happened pretty quick then it there that happened pretty quick then it there that happened pretty quick then it was okay then we rented a school and was okay then we rented a school and was okay then we rented a school and planted the church and then we bought a planted the church and then we bought a planted the church and then we bought a building planted church and so we did building planted church and so we did building planted church and so we did that over and over that over and over that over and over five or six times with each campus just five or six times with each campus just five or six times with each campus just looking at our online looking at our online looking at our online uh you know audience and saying well uh you know audience and saying well uh you know audience and saying well this is this is where we're gonna plant this is this is where we're gonna plant this is this is where we're gonna plant next because we already have next because we already have next because we already have uh basically a church going there uh basically a church going there uh basically a church going there already we just need a building to get already we just need a building to get already we just need a building to get them in and we knew that we weren't them in and we knew that we weren't them in and we knew that we weren't pulling from other pulling from other pulling from other churches because these people were churches because these people were churches because these people were already engaging consistently with our already engaging consistently with our already engaging consistently with our content and so content and so content and so you know i think what as far as like you know i think what as far as like you know i think what as far as like what i would do differently kind of what i would do differently kind of what i would do differently kind of looking back now um i think we looking back now um i think we looking back now um i think we we i would have slowed down um like we we i would have slowed down um like we we i would have slowed down um like we had had had somewhat of a plan somewhat of a plan somewhat of a plan uh but at the same time like we were one uh but at the same time like we were one uh but at the same time like we were one of the only churches doing it the only of the only churches doing it the only of the only churches doing it the only church doing it on on that scale or with church doing it on on that scale or with church doing it on on that scale or with that that that you know much resources behind it plenty you know much resources behind it plenty you know much resources behind it plenty of churches at the time were live of churches at the time were live of churches at the time were live streaming or you know putting their streaming or you know putting their streaming or you know putting their sermons online but you know not in the sermons online but you know not in the sermons online but you know not in the way we were doing like we were a content way we were doing like we were a content way we were doing like we were a content machine with that stuff and so machine with that stuff and so machine with that stuff and so um a lot of pressure just to get that um a lot of pressure just to get that um a lot of pressure just to get that out and keep it up um and uh out and keep it up um and uh out and keep it up um and uh i mean we had no examples to look at we i mean we had no examples to look at we i mean we had no examples to look at we we were really trying to figure it out we were really trying to figure it out we were really trying to figure it out as we go and and uh as we go and and uh as we go and and uh you know like i said the the messaging you know like i said the the messaging you know like i said the the messaging uh got very confusing very controversial uh got very confusing very controversial uh got very confusing very controversial because we we called it our global because we we called it our global because we we called it our global audience but then we also had like our audience but then we also had like our audience but then we also had like our global fund for missions and

global fund for missions and global fund for missions and people were like wait what are we giving people were like wait what are we giving people were like wait what are we giving to and and it just got weird to and and it just got weird to and and it just got weird and so you know we had a million and so you know we had a million and so you know we had a million different things going on at the same different things going on at the same different things going on at the same time music label and books and time music label and books and time music label and books and uh uh uh someone decided to start a full-on someone decided to start a full-on someone decided to start a full-on accredited bible college in the middle accredited bible college in the middle accredited bible college in the middle of it all and uh so i would just say of it all and uh so i would just say of it all and uh so i would just say like if i look back i would slow it down like if i look back i would slow it down like if i look back i would slow it down plan it out have much more purpose and plan it out have much more purpose and plan it out have much more purpose and clarity with what we're doing with our clarity with what we're doing with our clarity with what we're doing with our online audience and how that you know online audience and how that you know online audience and how that you know kind of folds into kind of folds into kind of folds into our grander vision and and missions that our grander vision and and missions that our grander vision and and missions that we can just you know steward and we can just you know steward and we can just you know steward and influence those people influence those people influence those people uh with some purpose uh with some purpose uh with some purpose yeah that's good advice for yeah that's good advice for yeah that's good advice for any business yeah not just the church any business yeah not just the church any business yeah not just the church world world world many ministry or for-profit business so many ministry or for-profit business so many ministry or for-profit business so yeah um so um so i muted myself i was trying to talk i i i muted myself i was trying to talk i i i muted myself i was trying to talk i i i muted myself uh i don't do that very i muted myself uh i don't do that very i muted myself uh i don't do that very often i i was just saying that there is often i i was just saying that there is often i i was just saying that there is this tension i think between this tension i think between this tension i think between what we see in churches wanting to go what we see in churches wanting to go what we see in churches wanting to go too fast and churches not wanting to put too fast and churches not wanting to put too fast and churches not wanting to put enough enough enough gas you know in the in the machine right gas you know in the in the machine right gas you know in the in the machine right right there's that there is that tension right there's that there is that tension right there's that there is that tension um you have some you know obviously you um you have some you know obviously you um you have some you know obviously you were you were working under a a leader were you were working under a a leader were you were working under a a leader who at this point looks like he was a who at this point looks like he was a who at this point looks like he was a very driven leader uh driven to do very driven leader uh driven to do very driven leader uh driven to do things and and there are leaders out things and and there are leaders out things and and there are leaders out there that are you know driven to make there that are you know driven to make there that are you know driven to make the biggest splash and the biggest the biggest splash and the biggest the biggest splash and the biggest impact they can and as fast as they can

impact they can and as fast as they can impact they can and as fast as they can and then there are others that maybe and then there are others that maybe and then there are others that maybe underestimate the impact they could have underestimate the impact they could have underestimate the impact they could have if they would actually leverage the if they would actually leverage the if they would actually leverage the gifts and the talents that they have gifts and the talents that they have gifts and the talents that they have along with digital media um and and i along with digital media um and and i along with digital media um and and i love hearing stories uh uh jason and i love hearing stories uh uh jason and i love hearing stories uh uh jason and i are friends with um are friends with um are friends with um the team that uh run 95 network and they the team that uh run 95 network and they the team that uh run 95 network and they have a podcast and even just this week have a podcast and even just this week have a podcast and even just this week uh uh they featured a guest from a small uh uh they featured a guest from a small uh uh they featured a guest from a small church in oklahoma who's uh leveraging church in oklahoma who's uh leveraging church in oklahoma who's uh leveraging online media to to launch a a a online media to to launch a a a online media to to launch a a a discipleship uh pathway for for new discipleship uh pathway for for new discipleship uh pathway for for new christians and i kind of download it and christians and i kind of download it and christians and i kind of download it and i'm kind of going through it and you i'm kind of going through it and you i'm kind of going through it and you know it's it's not a highly produced know it's it's not a highly produced know it's it's not a highly produced high budget thing but it's super well high budget thing but it's super well high budget thing but it's super well done and super practical and here's a done and super practical and here's a done and super practical and here's a small church pastor in a community in small church pastor in a community in small church pastor in a community in oklahoma uh who's leveraging the oklahoma uh who's leveraging the oklahoma uh who's leveraging the internet to help people grow in their internet to help people grow in their internet to help people grow in their faith in jesus and faith in jesus and faith in jesus and you know i wouldn't even say he's you know i wouldn't even say he's you know i wouldn't even say he's necessarily a super driven leader not necessarily a super driven leader not necessarily a super driven leader not from what i can hear but he's got gifts from what i can hear but he's got gifts from what i can hear but he's got gifts and he's got a calling and he's using and he's got a calling and he's using and he's got a calling and he's using the internet in addition to his local the internet in addition to his local the internet in addition to his local church to leverage that and so that's church to leverage that and so that's church to leverage that and so that's that tension that we're always kind of that tension that we're always kind of that tension that we're always kind of working in where you say you don't want working in where you say you don't want working in where you say you don't want to go too far too fast uh but at the to go too far too fast uh but at the to go too far too fast uh but at the same time you want to make sure that same time you want to make sure that same time you want to make sure that you're you're being a good steward of you're you're being a good steward of you're you're being a good steward of the gifts and the resources that you do the gifts and the resources that you do the gifts and the resources that you do have and leveraging those tools for the have and leveraging those tools for the have and leveraging those tools for the kingdom and i think it's it's looking kingdom and i think it's it's looking kingdom and i think it's it's looking the at the motivations behind it too the at the motivations behind it too the at the motivations behind it too like you don't want to go too slow out like you don't want to go too slow out like you don't want to go too slow out of fear of fear of fear or uh you know because you just don't or uh you know because you just don't or uh you know because you just don't know what you're getting into know what you're getting into know what you're getting into um like you've got to find that that

um like you've got to find that that um like you've got to find that that good rhythm for good rhythm for good rhythm for um you know that what fits for you and um you know that what fits for you and um you know that what fits for you and the resources that you have but the resources that you have but the resources that you have but uh don't don't by any means just don't uh don't don't by any means just don't uh don't don't by any means just don't do this stuff because you don't know how do this stuff because you don't know how do this stuff because you don't know how to do it like figure it out to do it like figure it out to do it like figure it out and uh look at look at what others are and uh look at look at what others are and uh look at look at what others are doing um i mean the beauty of it now is doing um i mean the beauty of it now is doing um i mean the beauty of it now is there's plenty of examples of all this there's plenty of examples of all this there's plenty of examples of all this stuff stuff stuff um there's plenty to figure out and um there's plenty to figure out and um there's plenty to figure out and plenty to innovate but um like we've plenty to innovate but um like we've plenty to innovate but um like we've been doing this a while now so like been doing this a while now so like been doing this a while now so like there's there's some templates out there there's there's some templates out there there's there's some templates out there that you can use that you can use that you can use well justin we're kind of coming to the well justin we're kind of coming to the well justin we're kind of coming to the close of our time here today so i just close of our time here today so i just close of our time here today so i just want to kind of wrap up with a couple of want to kind of wrap up with a couple of want to kind of wrap up with a couple of questions now you know you're living in questions now you know you're living in questions now you know you're living in the you live in the woods of northern the you live in the woods of northern the you live in the woods of northern georgia uh your internet actually is georgia uh your internet actually is georgia uh your internet actually is pretty good you know when you tell me pretty good you know when you tell me pretty good you know when you tell me where you're living i was like man i where you're living i was like man i where you're living i was like man i hope i hope that we can sustain this hope i hope that we can sustain this hope i hope that we can sustain this today is a good day for the internet today is a good day for the internet today is a good day for the internet it's definitely hit or miss out here it's definitely hit or miss out here it's definitely hit or miss out here yeah you're living out in the sticks uh yeah you're living out in the sticks uh yeah you're living out in the sticks uh and uh so i'm i'm guessing that you know and uh so i'm i'm guessing that you know and uh so i'm i'm guessing that you know by nature of the the work that you do by nature of the the work that you do by nature of the the work that you do and by nature the fact that you live in and by nature the fact that you live in and by nature the fact that you live in the middle of the woods that you the middle of the woods that you the middle of the woods that you probably spend a fair bit of time on the probably spend a fair bit of time on the probably spend a fair bit of time on the internet uh you know how what is it what internet uh you know how what is it what internet uh you know how what is it what does your social media life look like does your social media life look like does your social media life look like you spend much time on social media and you spend much time on social media and you spend much time on social media and if you do like who do you follow who are if you do like who do you follow who are if you do like who do you follow who are you connected with who are you learning you connected with who are you learning you connected with who are you learning from online from online from online well uh well uh well uh i'll i'll put aside the category of uh i'll i'll put aside the category of uh i'll i'll put aside the category of uh politics so i mean that's definitely politics so i mean that's definitely politics so i mean that's definitely takes up a lot of time these days uh takes up a lot of time these days uh takes up a lot of time these days uh very into politics but when it comes to very into politics but when it comes to very into politics but when it comes to uh context what we're talking about i i uh context what we're talking about i i uh context what we're talking about i i would say would say would say um um um uh ryan wakefield the the church

uh ryan wakefield the the church uh ryan wakefield the the church marketing university doesn't get enough marketing university doesn't get enough marketing university doesn't get enough credit the guys guy's a machine putting credit the guys guy's a machine putting credit the guys guy's a machine putting out amazing content for for churches and out amazing content for for churches and out amazing content for for churches and stuff oh a lot of what what ryan does stuff oh a lot of what what ryan does stuff oh a lot of what what ryan does um phil cook is another good follow just um phil cook is another good follow just um phil cook is another good follow just uh uh uh informative but also very fun um you informative but also very fun um you informative but also very fun um you know he's a he's a great guy to follow know he's a he's a great guy to follow know he's a he's a great guy to follow and then um there's a group of guys uh and then um there's a group of guys uh and then um there's a group of guys uh they call themselves black bar they call themselves black bar they call themselves black bar they're doing amazing they're doing amazing they're doing amazing youtube videos very very practical the youtube videos very very practical the youtube videos very very practical the well-produced well-produced well-produced uh great videos they just reached like uh great videos they just reached like uh great videos they just reached like 10 000 subscribers on youtube and 10 000 subscribers on youtube and 10 000 subscribers on youtube and they're growing like crazy and i love they're growing like crazy and i love they're growing like crazy and i love those guys we're actually trying to get those guys we're actually trying to get those guys we're actually trying to get them come out to the conference and do them come out to the conference and do them come out to the conference and do some workshops because some workshops because some workshops because um just you know i i love when people um just you know i i love when people um just you know i i love when people focus on this practical focus on this practical focus on this practical communications and marketing and communications and marketing and communications and marketing and production kind of content because the production kind of content because the production kind of content because the church needs a ton of help with it church needs a ton of help with it church needs a ton of help with it there's a lot of leadership high level there's a lot of leadership high level there's a lot of leadership high level stuff for pastors and not a lot for stuff for pastors and not a lot for stuff for pastors and not a lot for people kind of in the trenches doing it people kind of in the trenches doing it people kind of in the trenches doing it um and so they're they're just rocking um and so they're they're just rocking um and so they're they're just rocking it with that kind of content so it with that kind of content so it with that kind of content so yeah i mean that's that's stuff i'm yeah i mean that's that's stuff i'm yeah i mean that's that's stuff i'm paying attention to uh guys like malachi paying attention to uh guys like malachi paying attention to uh guys like malachi o'brien uh former sbc uh vice president o'brien uh former sbc uh vice president o'brien uh former sbc uh vice president and uh just a great you know marketer and uh just a great you know marketer and uh just a great you know marketer helping out churches very very helping out churches very very helping out churches very very inspirational stuff so inspirational stuff so inspirational stuff so um yeah i mean actually if you go to um yeah i mean actually if you go to um yeah i mean actually if you go to like my twitter uh so my i'm at like my twitter uh so my i'm at like my twitter uh so my i'm at justinjin justinjin justinjin if you click on my twitter list i've got if you click on my twitter list i've got if you click on my twitter list i've got a bunch of a bunch of a bunch of lists that people can follow of uh of lists that people can follow of uh of lists that people can follow of uh of all these guys all these guys all these guys i will echo we we actually have phil

i will echo we we actually have phil i will echo we we actually have phil cook coming up on the podcast here in a cook coming up on the podcast here in a cook coming up on the podcast here in a couple of weeks so we're excited about couple of weeks so we're excited about couple of weeks so we're excited about having a conversation with him and uh having a conversation with him and uh having a conversation with him and uh i'm gonna reach out to the black bar i'm gonna reach out to the black bar i'm gonna reach out to the black bar guys i've actually been watching their guys i've actually been watching their guys i've actually been watching their youtube videos and stealing some stuff youtube videos and stealing some stuff youtube videos and stealing some stuff it's really really good the stuff that it's really really good the stuff that it's really really good the stuff that they're the stuff that they're doing is they're the stuff that they're doing is they're the stuff that they're doing is really good it's different right it's a really good it's different right it's a really good it's different right it's a it's uh they're very creative in both uh it's uh they're very creative in both uh it's uh they're very creative in both uh they're very practical in terms of what they're very practical in terms of what they're very practical in terms of what they're teaching but really creative in they're teaching but really creative in they're teaching but really creative in terms of the way that they present it so terms of the way that they present it so terms of the way that they present it so i really yeah they're very it's like i really yeah they're very it's like i really yeah they're very it's like entertaining uh i mean you know they're entertaining uh i mean you know they're entertaining uh i mean you know they're the they're they've got to be young i the they're they've got to be young i the they're they've got to be young i mean they're they're the youtube mean they're they're the youtube mean they're they're the youtube generation that's it's just gonna be generation that's it's just gonna be generation that's it's just gonna be amazing to see actually over the next 10 amazing to see actually over the next 10 amazing to see actually over the next 10 20 years 20 years 20 years this next generation creating content this next generation creating content this next generation creating content for the church like that because it's for the church like that because it's for the church like that because it's it's just going to keep getting better it's just going to keep getting better it's just going to keep getting better it's already surpassed like i look at it's already surpassed like i look at it's already surpassed like i look at the guys at black part i'm just like i i the guys at black part i'm just like i i the guys at black part i'm just like i i can't do that like i can't do that like i can't do that like i i'm not going to become the youtube i'm not going to become the youtube i'm not going to become the youtube personality that uh personality that uh personality that uh that these guys are it's just uh i'm too that these guys are it's just uh i'm too that these guys are it's just uh i'm too old yeah old yeah old yeah just to spend the time figuring out what just to spend the time figuring out what just to spend the time figuring out what gear i need to set up in my office to gear i need to set up in my office to gear i need to set up in my office to make my videos look like their videos make my videos look like their videos make my videos look like their videos look i'm just happy my i'm just happy look i'm just happy my i'm just happy look i'm just happy my i'm just happy i'm not blurry right now i'm in this i'm not blurry right now i'm in this i'm not blurry right now i'm in this yeah yeah yeah in fact am i in fact am i in fact am i no no the camera the camera has stayed no no the camera the camera has stayed no no the camera the camera has stayed in focus the camera's staying focused in focus the camera's staying focused in focus the camera's staying focused but yeah i totally get what you mean but yeah i totally get what you mean but yeah i totally get what you mean so you mentioned twitter you gave us so you mentioned twitter you gave us so you mentioned twitter you gave us your twitter handle uh what other ways your twitter handle uh what other ways your twitter handle uh what other ways that people can connect with you if they that people can connect with you if they that people can connect with you if they want more information about the want more information about the want more information about the conference or just wanted to connect conference or just wanted to connect conference or just wanted to connect with you about some of the other stuff with you about some of the other stuff with you about some of the other stuff that you're doing that you're doing that you're doing yeah i mean you can find the conference yeah i mean you can find the conference yeah i mean you can find the conference at thatce.com at thatce.com at thatce.com i think by the time this this is out i think by the time this this is out i think by the time this this is out we'll have uh you know the announcement we'll have uh you know the announcement we'll have uh you know the announcement of what we're doing next coming back in of what we're doing next coming back in of what we're doing next coming back in person uh next year in 2022 and it's

person uh next year in 2022 and it's person uh next year in 2022 and it's going to be huge we got a great lineup going to be huge we got a great lineup going to be huge we got a great lineup of speakers so um cc.com to sign up for of speakers so um cc.com to sign up for of speakers so um cc.com to sign up for that we'll have live streaming as well that we'll have live streaming as well that we'll have live streaming as well if you can't make it or don't want to if you can't make it or don't want to if you can't make it or don't want to and uh just you know to follow me you and uh just you know to follow me you and uh just you know to follow me you can go to that justindeen.com and kind can go to that justindeen.com and kind can go to that justindeen.com and kind of find links to everything you can find of find links to everything you can find of find links to everything you can find my book and stuff on there so my book and stuff on there so my book and stuff on there so that's probably the best best place to that's probably the best best place to that's probably the best best place to go to find everything yeah really cool go to find everything yeah really cool go to find everything yeah really cool jason you want the last word well yeah jason you want the last word well yeah jason you want the last word well yeah no just work it's been fun uh getting to no just work it's been fun uh getting to no just work it's been fun uh getting to know you and and the and what god's know you and and the and what god's know you and and the and what god's doing through you doing through you doing through you and your ministry and um i love i love i and your ministry and um i love i love i and your ministry and um i love i love i love when god is doing some cool stuff love when god is doing some cool stuff love when god is doing some cool stuff and you just you see and you just you see and you just you see what's happening and what's happening and what's happening and it's just you're you're uh it's just you're you're uh it's just you're you're uh yeah you're you're really kind of a cool yeah you're you're really kind of a cool yeah you're you're really kind of a cool thing for people to tune into so thing for people to tune into so thing for people to tune into so um if you haven't checked out that um if you haven't checked out that um if you haven't checked out that church conference you gotta go check it church conference you gotta go check it church conference you gotta go check it out out out and and i think there's so many things and and i think there's so many things and and i think there's so many things that uh you know we're all we're all on that uh you know we're all we're all on that uh you know we're all we're all on the same team the same team the same team right we have one goal right we have one goal right we have one goal you know and and just uh you know and and just uh you know and and just uh that's what i tell churches all the time that's what i tell churches all the time that's what i tell churches all the time it's all about great commission focused it's all about great commission focused it's all about great commission focused trying to expand reach more people for trying to expand reach more people for trying to expand reach more people for for jesus and let people know there is for jesus and let people know there is for jesus and let people know there is hope hope hope in a really really sick world that we're in a really really sick world that we're in a really really sick world that we're in right now so in right now so in right now so thanks for all the ministry you're doing thanks for all the ministry you're doing thanks for all the ministry you're doing we really appreciate that we really appreciate that we really appreciate that no and and i love you guys i'm glad the no and and i love you guys i'm glad the no and and i love you guys i'm glad the uh the podcast is uh is gearing back up uh the podcast is uh is gearing back up uh the podcast is uh is gearing back up and yeah um just uh appreciate what you and yeah um just uh appreciate what you and yeah um just uh appreciate what you guys do that you know i feel like guys do that you know i feel like guys do that you know i feel like there's a lot of there's a lot of there's a lot of church consultants and companies and

church consultants and companies and church consultants and companies and agencies and agencies and agencies and i feel like half of them are you know i feel like half of them are you know i feel like half of them are you know might not have the best motivations and might not have the best motivations and might not have the best motivations and we kind of always got to work against we kind of always got to work against we kind of always got to work against the the the stigma of just people trying to earn stigma of just people trying to earn stigma of just people trying to earn money in the church world and then money in the church world and then money in the church world and then there's guys like you who are like there's guys like you who are like there's guys like you who are like you're literally just trying to help you're literally just trying to help you're literally just trying to help like you know we we could go do this for like you know we we could go do this for like you know we we could go do this for businesses and actually make money if we businesses and actually make money if we businesses and actually make money if we wanted if we cared about that like but wanted if we cared about that like but wanted if we cared about that like but we care about the church we care about we care about the church we care about we care about the church we care about growing the kingdom we care about growing the kingdom we care about growing the kingdom we care about spreading the gospel and and we just see spreading the gospel and and we just see spreading the gospel and and we just see an opportunity to help um churches do an opportunity to help um churches do an opportunity to help um churches do that better because they they need a lot that better because they they need a lot that better because they they need a lot of help and so of help and so of help and so just i love that we're on the same team just i love that we're on the same team just i love that we're on the same team you guys are great you guys are great you guys are great we said this earlier god's got a sense we said this earlier god's got a sense we said this earlier god's got a sense of humor because i wasn't planning on of humor because i wasn't planning on of humor because i wasn't planning on working at a church you weren't planning working at a church you weren't planning working at a church you weren't planning on working in high school i was most voted least in high school i was most voted least likely to ever work in a church likely to ever work in a church likely to ever work in a church [Laughter] [Laughter] [Laughter] it's amazing that it's amazing i was it's amazing that it's amazing i was it's amazing that it's amazing i was voted least likely to go to church well justin thanks again thanks again well justin thanks again thanks again for your time today we really appreciate for your time today we really appreciate for your time today we really appreciate you being on the show yeah thanks guys you being on the show yeah thanks guys you being on the show yeah thanks guys [Music]