Learning to Market for Churches in the Digital Age | Peer Jambor

[Music] [Music] in corporate we always have to come up in corporate we always have to come up in corporate we always have to come up with a new product you know we're with a new product you know we're with a new product you know we're looking for a new need looking for a new need looking for a new need um so what's going on in the people what um so what's going on in the people what um so what's going on in the people what need is there let's build the product need is there let's build the product need is there let's build the product for that need and then let's package it for that need and then let's package it for that need and then let's package it and promote it so they will buy it right and promote it so they will buy it right and promote it so they will buy it right now so we as church now so we as church now so we as church we have the same product for 2 000 years we have the same product for 2 000 years we have the same product for 2 000 years it's the gospel it's the gospel it's the gospel and we know everyone has that need and we know everyone has that need and we know everyone has that need so therefore we are a little bit slow so therefore we are a little bit slow so therefore we are a little bit slow sometimes to adapting to how do we need sometimes to adapting to how do we need sometimes to adapting to how do we need to package it you know with with time to package it you know with with time to package it you know with with time changing and with things you know moving changing and with things you know moving changing and with things you know moving on on on hey welcome to the missional marketing hey welcome to the missional marketing hey welcome to the missional marketing podcast my name is bart blair and i am a podcast my name is bart blair and i am a podcast my name is bart blair and i am a coach and digital strategist at mission coach and digital strategist at mission coach and digital strategist at mission marketing joined as always by the ceo marketing joined as always by the ceo marketing joined as always by the ceo and the senior coach the head coach the and the senior coach the head coach the and the senior coach the head coach the big guru coach of missional marketing big guru coach of missional marketing big guru coach of missional marketing and our team jason hamrock hi bart how and our team jason hamrock hi bart how and our team jason hamrock hi bart how you doing today you doing today you doing today jason i'm doing very well uh the end of jason i'm doing very well uh the end of jason i'm doing very well uh the end of a very long day i've been on zoom calls a very long day i've been on zoom calls a very long day i've been on zoom calls uh for about seven hours today so i'm uh for about seven hours today so i'm uh for about seven hours today so i'm ready to be done i think i have one more ready to be done i think i have one more ready to be done i think i have one more after we're finished uh recording this after we're finished uh recording this after we're finished uh recording this interview uh this uh this interview interview uh this uh this interview interview uh this uh this interview intro whatever whatever it is that we're intro whatever whatever it is that we're intro whatever whatever it is that we're doing here there's there's seven hours doing here there's there's seven hours doing here there's there's seven hours of of zoom coming out right there i'm of of zoom coming out right there i'm of of zoom coming out right there i'm kind of zoom fatigued yeah i know i i kind of zoom fatigued yeah i know i i kind of zoom fatigued yeah i know i i hear you i i bet i bet if you're like us hear you i i bet i bet if you're like us hear you i i bet i bet if you're like us like bart and i we we get to spend all like bart and i we we get to spend all like bart and i we we get to spend all day with churches you probably don't do day with churches you probably don't do day with churches you probably don't do that but you're probably on zoom a lot that but you're probably on zoom a lot that but you're probably on zoom a lot with other people other ministries that with other people other ministries that with other people other ministries that you have to work with and and uh it can you have to work with and and uh it can you have to work with and and uh it can get a little tiring but you know i love get a little tiring but you know i love get a little tiring but you know i love the internet because it allows bart and the internet because it allows bart and the internet because it allows bart and i to have these kind of conversations

i to have these kind of conversations i to have these kind of conversations together and with our our guests on our together and with our our guests on our together and with our our guests on our podcast podcast podcast and uh you know that that's such an and uh you know that that's such an and uh you know that that's such an amazing i like to get on airplane we amazing i like to get on airplane we amazing i like to get on airplane we have to go visit people we can just do have to go visit people we can just do have to go visit people we can just do this on zoom on the internet and uh god this on zoom on the internet and uh god this on zoom on the internet and uh god is good yeah did you just hear my phone is good yeah did you just hear my phone is good yeah did you just hear my phone my cell phone that little ding ding ding my cell phone that little ding ding ding my cell phone that little ding ding ding there yeah did you hear that that's there yeah did you hear that that's there yeah did you hear that that's that's my cell phone telling me get that's my cell phone telling me get that's my cell phone telling me get ready for your next zoom call so hey ready for your next zoom call so hey ready for your next zoom call so hey let's let's let's let's introduce the guest that we let's introduce the guest that we let's introduce the guest that we interviewed uh his name is pier jambore interviewed uh his name is pier jambore interviewed uh his name is pier jambore and he is the communications director at and he is the communications director at and he is the communications director at a great church in georgia called 12 a great church in georgia called 12 a great church in georgia called 12 stone stone stone jason and i debated how much intro to jason and i debated how much intro to jason and i debated how much intro to give to this episode because piergo's give to this episode because piergo's give to this episode because piergo's pretty deep uh this guy is is sharp he's pretty deep uh this guy is is sharp he's pretty deep uh this guy is is sharp he's bright uh he comes to the church and bright uh he comes to the church and bright uh he comes to the church and ministry space with a great deal of uh ministry space with a great deal of uh ministry space with a great deal of uh marketplace uh corporate work in terms marketplace uh corporate work in terms marketplace uh corporate work in terms of marketing and communications and um of marketing and communications and um of marketing and communications and um just is a really outside the box thinker just is a really outside the box thinker just is a really outside the box thinker at least outside the box in terms of at least outside the box in terms of at least outside the box in terms of what we typically think of in terms of what we typically think of in terms of what we typically think of in terms of church marketing and church church marketing and church church marketing and church communications um communications um communications um yeah i i you know yeah i i you know yeah i i you know you're gonna love this um you're gonna love this um you're gonna love this um podcast i really want you as you listen podcast i really want you as you listen podcast i really want you as you listen to this thing to kind of think deep to this thing to kind of think deep to this thing to kind of think deep about this about this about this uh the reality is the the you know the uh the reality is the the you know the uh the reality is the the you know the secular world the corporate world secular world the corporate world secular world the corporate world they're always trying to sell you they're always trying to sell you they're always trying to sell you something something something right he brings some of those strategies right he brings some of those strategies right he brings some of those strategies that they're very good at to the to his that they're very good at to the to his that they're very good at to the to his church at 12 stone because what they are church at 12 stone because what they are church at 12 stone because what they are not selling but what they're offering is not selling but what they're offering is not selling but what they're offering is life change it's it's it's the gospel life change it's it's it's the gospel life change it's it's it's the gospel and and he is so focused on that and so

and and he is so focused on that and so and and he is so focused on that and so i just love how he's bringing a lot of i just love how he's bringing a lot of i just love how he's bringing a lot of those strategies into his church those strategies into his church those strategies into his church implementing that and and you're going implementing that and and you're going implementing that and and you're going to learn a lot about i'm really excited to learn a lot about i'm really excited to learn a lot about i'm really excited about it about it about it absolutely we're really privileged to absolutely we're really privileged to absolutely we're really privileged to have had the opportunity to spend time have had the opportunity to spend time have had the opportunity to spend time with uh peer and uh we're thankful thank with uh peer and uh we're thankful thank with uh peer and uh we're thankful thank whoo my voice is cracking we are whoo my voice is cracking we are whoo my voice is cracking we are thankful that he uh decided to be a thankful that he uh decided to be a thankful that he uh decided to be a guest on our podcast all right we better guest on our podcast all right we better guest on our podcast all right we better uh wrap up this intro and and let this uh wrap up this intro and and let this uh wrap up this intro and and let this thing roll so hey if you are a regular thing roll so hey if you are a regular thing roll so hey if you are a regular listener or even if you're not a regular listener or even if you're not a regular listener or even if you're not a regular listener we hope that you subscribe if listener we hope that you subscribe if listener we hope that you subscribe if you find the content that we're you find the content that we're you find the content that we're producing in this podcast to be producing in this podcast to be producing in this podcast to be something that's useful and helpful for something that's useful and helpful for something that's useful and helpful for you wherever you're tuning in whether you wherever you're tuning in whether you wherever you're tuning in whether that's on youtube or that's on youtube or that's on youtube or apple podcast or spotify or google apple podcast or spotify or google apple podcast or spotify or google podcast we hope that you will subscribe podcast we hope that you will subscribe podcast we hope that you will subscribe and if you would do us a great favor and if you would do us a great favor and if you would do us a great favor leave us a rating and review that will leave us a rating and review that will leave us a rating and review that will really help us that will help us know really help us that will help us know really help us that will help us know what we can continue to do more of in what we can continue to do more of in what we can continue to do more of in terms of the types of content that we're terms of the types of content that we're terms of the types of content that we're creating but also it helps more people creating but also it helps more people creating but also it helps more people find the podcast so we'd appreciate it find the podcast so we'd appreciate it find the podcast so we'd appreciate it if you do that and uh i think that's if you do that and uh i think that's if you do that and uh i think that's about it as far as this intro is about it as far as this intro is about it as far as this intro is concerned um pierre jambor from 12 stone concerned um pierre jambor from 12 stone concerned um pierre jambor from 12 stone church we hope that you enjoy this church we hope that you enjoy this church we hope that you enjoy this interview interview interview pierre jambor it is our pleasure to pierre jambor it is our pleasure to pierre jambor it is our pleasure to welcome you to the missional marketing welcome you to the missional marketing welcome you to the missional marketing podcast thanks so much for taking time podcast thanks so much for taking time podcast thanks so much for taking time with us today with us today with us today thank you for having me thank you for having me thank you for having me hey so uh one of the things that we love hey so uh one of the things that we love hey so uh one of the things that we love to do with all of our guests is really to do with all of our guests is really to do with all of our guests is really just to get to know them a little bit just to get to know them a little bit just to get to know them a little bit and we'd love for you to share your and we'd love for you to share your and we'd love for you to share your story your professional story your professional story your professional background your ministry experience and background your ministry experience and background your ministry experience and and how you ended up doing what you're and how you ended up doing what you're and how you ended up doing what you're doing today at 12 stone doing today at 12 stone doing today at 12 stone oh i'd love to share that i love telling

oh i'd love to share that i love telling oh i'd love to share that i love telling stories i'm a marketer so um it might stories i'm a marketer so um it might stories i'm a marketer so um it might take a little bit time it's really hard take a little bit time it's really hard take a little bit time it's really hard to put my story really in a couple of to put my story really in a couple of to put my story really in a couple of minutes um you will hear a little bit of minutes um you will hear a little bit of minutes um you will hear a little bit of an accent and everything and i'll use an accent and everything and i'll use an accent and everything and i'll use weird words because i'm actually german weird words because i'm actually german weird words because i'm actually german so i was born and raised in germany so i was born and raised in germany so i was born and raised in germany and i relocated here with my family and i relocated here with my family and i relocated here with my family seven years ago to atlanta georgia seven years ago to atlanta georgia seven years ago to atlanta georgia and it's it's a long story i'm i'm a and it's it's a long story i'm i'm a and it's it's a long story i'm i'm a corporate marketer i've been actually in corporate marketer i've been actually in corporate marketer i've been actually in the marketing and corporate marketing the marketing and corporate marketing the marketing and corporate marketing for about 16 years for about 16 years for about 16 years um seven years ago we were um seven years ago we were um seven years ago we were at our home living a good picket fences at our home living a good picket fences at our home living a good picket fences christian life and volunteering at christian life and volunteering at christian life and volunteering at church and church and church and with three small kids in germany and with three small kids in germany and with three small kids in germany and just god kind of had a different plan just god kind of had a different plan just god kind of had a different plan and through many different things and and through many different things and and through many different things and him just saying like hey there's a next him just saying like hey there's a next him just saying like hey there's a next there's a new um there's a new um there's a new um we ended up with seven suitcases and we ended up with seven suitcases and we ended up with seven suitcases and three kids at atlanta airport three kids at atlanta airport three kids at atlanta airport and uh started over in in georgia and uh started over in in georgia and uh started over in in georgia i was still in corporate marketing at i was still in corporate marketing at i was still in corporate marketing at that point um and we had a we also there that point um and we had a we also there that point um and we had a we also there just i had a good career um an i.t just i had a good career um an i.t just i had a good career um an i.t company a global i.t company um company a global i.t company um company a global i.t company um as a cmo there as a cmo there as a cmo there and it's been great and then a couple of and it's been great and then a couple of and it's been great and then a couple of years later somehow years later somehow years later somehow god said this is still not it um and god said this is still not it um and god said this is still not it um and again he was kind of like pointing the again he was kind of like pointing the again he was kind of like pointing the finger and said like finger and said like finger and said like guys when you guys when you guys when you when you started this journey with jesus when you started this journey with jesus when you started this journey with jesus at some point this is not what you at some point this is not what you at some point this is not what you signed up for there's more and and he signed up for there's more and and he signed up for there's more and and he was kind of like pointing fingers and was kind of like pointing fingers and was kind of like pointing fingers and directions and we were actually going to

directions and we were actually going to directions and we were actually going to 12 stone and 12 stone and 12 stone and while he was doing that um charleston while he was doing that um charleston while he was doing that um charleston reached out and said hey do you want to reached out and said hey do you want to reached out and said hey do you want to take that job here at 12 stone and take that job here at 12 stone and take that job here at 12 stone and immediately we were like no but god had it you know had a different but god had it you know had a different idea and he just spoke to us and we just idea and he just spoke to us and we just idea and he just spoke to us and we just knew that's a new thing to do and so knew that's a new thing to do and so knew that's a new thing to do and so about three years ago um we actually about three years ago um we actually about three years ago um we actually started this adventure to go from started this adventure to go from started this adventure to go from corporate marketing into church corporate marketing into church corporate marketing into church marketing marketing marketing that's great well tell us that's great well tell us that's great well tell us we've had uh dan ryland who's also part we've had uh dan ryland who's also part we've had uh dan ryland who's also part of the staff at 12 stone on our podcast of the staff at 12 stone on our podcast of the staff at 12 stone on our podcast before but uh for the folks that are before but uh for the folks that are before but uh for the folks that are listening or are tuning in here and listening or are tuning in here and listening or are tuning in here and watching the video give us a little bit watching the video give us a little bit watching the video give us a little bit of an overview of 12 stone tell us a of an overview of 12 stone tell us a of an overview of 12 stone tell us a little bit about the church and then little bit about the church and then little bit about the church and then kind of tell us about the team that you kind of tell us about the team that you kind of tell us about the team that you lead at 12 stone lead at 12 stone lead at 12 stone um so 12 zone church is about 35 years um so 12 zone church is about 35 years um so 12 zone church is about 35 years old um greater metro atlanta i would say old um greater metro atlanta i would say old um greater metro atlanta i would say a suburbian church a suburbian church a suburbian church so it's not a downtown or inner city so it's not a downtown or inner city so it's not a downtown or inner city church we're in suburbia have seven church we're in suburbia have seven church we're in suburbia have seven campuses there um and of course campuses there um and of course campuses there um and of course online presence especially in covet kind online presence especially in covet kind online presence especially in covet kind of like a little bit more of like a little bit more of like a little bit more um have a big youtube presence um but um have a big youtube presence um but um have a big youtube presence um but seven physical campuses seven physical campuses seven physical campuses and my team so i lead the marketing and and my team so i lead the marketing and and my team so i lead the marketing and communications team i was like to say communications team i was like to say communications team i was like to say that because we also try to do marketing that because we also try to do marketing that because we also try to do marketing not just communication not just communication not just communication um and it's actually i'm i'm really um and it's actually i'm i'm really um and it's actually i'm i'm really grateful to have a team which is grateful to have a team which is grateful to have a team which is um um um i have specialists for different areas i have specialists for different areas i have specialists for different areas social media and physical items

social media and physical items social media and physical items um also website of course um also website of course um also website of course and and and different things where i'm i'm grateful different things where i'm i'm grateful different things where i'm i'm grateful that my team is mainly professionals that my team is mainly professionals that my team is mainly professionals that used to be in corporate that used to be in corporate that used to be in corporate um and um felt a call to ministry at um and um felt a call to ministry at um and um felt a call to ministry at some point actually like me and and and some point actually like me and and and some point actually like me and and and most of my team most of my team most of my team we always had the thought that we were we always had the thought that we were we always had the thought that we were called to ministry but we'd never fit in called to ministry but we'd never fit in called to ministry but we'd never fit in because none of us were like typical because none of us were like typical because none of us were like typical pastors pastors pastors right and we weren't like oh i want to right and we weren't like oh i want to right and we weren't like oh i want to be on a stage and teach or i'm a worship be on a stage and teach or i'm a worship be on a stage and teach or i'm a worship guy or something like that but everyone guy or something like that but everyone guy or something like that but everyone had marketing or social media or you had marketing or social media or you had marketing or social media or you know website or programming um know website or programming um know website or programming um gifts and it just didn't you just didn't gifts and it just didn't you just didn't gifts and it just didn't you just didn't know what to do with it right um but now know what to do with it right um but now know what to do with it right um but now with what's been happening um with the with what's been happening um with the with what's been happening um with the church and in the last you know years church and in the last you know years church and in the last you know years even going digital being online um even going digital being online um even going digital being online um thinking also different a little bit thinking also different a little bit thinking also different a little bit more outside of the box of of the you more outside of the box of of the you more outside of the box of of the you know um what we did before i was like no know um what we did before i was like no know um what we did before i was like no this is this is something where i can this is this is something where i can this is this is something where i can use my gifting you know on a on a use my gifting you know on a on a use my gifting you know on a on a full-time professional basis for the full-time professional basis for the full-time professional basis for the kingdom and that's that's just great i kingdom and that's that's just great i kingdom and that's that's just great i really enjoy that really enjoy that really enjoy that so so so a lot of the people who list this a lot of the people who list this a lot of the people who list this podcast are in communications and and podcast are in communications and and podcast are in communications and and communications church staff we throw out communications church staff we throw out communications church staff we throw out the word marketing without really fully the word marketing without really fully the word marketing without really fully understanding what that means for the understanding what that means for the understanding what that means for the church church church here you know you're in a position where here you know you're in a position where here you know you're in a position where you did this in corporate you did this in corporate you did this in corporate and and i said this in a podcast earlier and and i said this in a podcast earlier and and i said this in a podcast earlier we're so far behind the church is always we're so far behind the church is always we're so far behind the church is always the last one to the to the party when it

the last one to the to the party when it the last one to the to the party when it comes to technology advances or anything comes to technology advances or anything comes to technology advances or anything that the corporate world is doing we're that the corporate world is doing we're that the corporate world is doing we're kind of like we've been talking lately kind of like we've been talking lately kind of like we've been talking lately about gated content churches go on about gated content churches go on about gated content churches go on what's good content you know no it's what's good content you know no it's what's good content you know no it's about generating a lead you know they're about generating a lead you know they're about generating a lead you know they're like what so like what so like what so when you think about marketing when you when you think about marketing when you when you think about marketing when you said that before like you surrounded said that before like you surrounded said that before like you surrounded yourself with people that were yourself with people that were yourself with people that were in the corporate space in marketing in the corporate space in marketing in the corporate space in marketing explain a little bit about what that explain a little bit about what that explain a little bit about what that means what are you talking about there means what are you talking about there means what are you talking about there so when i think about marketing i think so when i think about marketing i think so when i think about marketing i think a little bit more than just promotion a little bit more than just promotion a little bit more than just promotion normally you say the four ps you know normally you say the four ps you know normally you say the four ps you know product price placement and then product price placement and then product price placement and then promotion promotion promotion and and oftentimes when i also talk to and and oftentimes when i also talk to and and oftentimes when i also talk to churches like oh just promote something churches like oh just promote something churches like oh just promote something so make a marketing campaign they so make a marketing campaign they so make a marketing campaign they actually talk about make a promotion actually talk about make a promotion actually talk about make a promotion campaign campaign campaign right um whereas i do think marketing is right um whereas i do think marketing is right um whereas i do think marketing is a little bit more than that it starts a little bit more than that it starts a little bit more than that it starts just a little bit earlier in thinking just a little bit earlier in thinking just a little bit earlier in thinking about about about um who's my target group where am i um who's my target group where am i um who's my target group where am i actually at like we're in suburbia it's actually at like we're in suburbia it's actually at like we're in suburbia it's very different than inner city so we very different than inner city so we very different than inner city so we need to maybe talk different we need to need to maybe talk different we need to need to maybe talk different we need to look different like what's actually how look different like what's actually how look different like what's actually how do we what are the colors we're using do we what are the colors we're using do we what are the colors we're using right what is actually the the brand we right what is actually the the brand we right what is actually the the brand we have what are we known for have what are we known for have what are we known for and that's already starting to go into and that's already starting to go into and that's already starting to go into marketing like what is marketing like what is marketing like what is also i would say what is the actual also i would say what is the actual also i would say what is the actual product we kind of like well the gospel product we kind of like well the gospel product we kind of like well the gospel is what we have right you know but then is what we have right you know but then is what we have right you know but then we have to package the product how do we have to package the product how do we have to package the product how do you package the product the gospel now you package the product the gospel now you package the product the gospel now in a in a space which is a in a in a space which is a in a in a space which is a kind of like post or in the kind of like post or in the kind of like post or in the end phase of covid um suburbia in the

end phase of covid um suburbia in the end phase of covid um suburbia in the south it's very different than i would south it's very different than i would south it's very different than i would package the product probably in germany package the product probably in germany package the product probably in germany so i'm you know that's i'm from so far so i'm you know that's i'm from so far so i'm you know that's i'm from so far away i know like oh this would never away i know like oh this would never away i know like oh this would never work in germany but here yourself that's work in germany but here yourself that's work in germany but here yourself that's amazing this works actually so when you amazing this works actually so when you amazing this works actually so when you think about that in marketing think about that in marketing think about that in marketing um um um there's a lot of what's actually going there's a lot of what's actually going there's a lot of what's actually going on in culture what is the time and space on in culture what is the time and space on in culture what is the time and space you are in right now you are in right now you are in right now and a word i use a lot and i don't know and a word i use a lot and i don't know and a word i use a lot and i don't know if we have time to dig into that is if we have time to dig into that is if we have time to dig into that is zeitgeist it's a german word and it zeitgeist it's a german word and it zeitgeist it's a german word and it means the spirit of the time means the spirit of the time means the spirit of the time so if you want to be a i think effective so if you want to be a i think effective so if you want to be a i think effective marketer you have to think about the marketer you have to think about the marketer you have to think about the site guys the spirit of the time what is site guys the spirit of the time what is site guys the spirit of the time what is happening right now in culture what's happening right now in culture what's happening right now in culture what's going on around us and i'm an exer you going on around us and i'm an exer you going on around us and i'm an exer you know the spirit of the time for me was a know the spirit of the time for me was a know the spirit of the time for me was a lot you know like it's it's heavy metal lot you know like it's it's heavy metal lot you know like it's it's heavy metal you know it's like oh i'm against you know it's like oh i'm against you know it's like oh i'm against everything i want to break something i everything i want to break something i everything i want to break something i want to have freedom and go out there want to have freedom and go out there want to have freedom and go out there you know so there was a different spirit you know so there was a different spirit you know so there was a different spirit of the time of the time of the time millennials came around you know and millennials came around you know and millennials came around you know and there's coldplay and everyone's going there's coldplay and everyone's going there's coldplay and everyone's going hey just have a great experience and i hey just have a great experience and i hey just have a great experience and i actually think that's the part where the actually think that's the part where the actually think that's the part where the mega church actually hit the spirit of mega church actually hit the spirit of mega church actually hit the spirit of the time really well because we built the time really well because we built the time really well because we built great experiences for people and that great experiences for people and that great experiences for people and that was a motivating factor of people alive was a motivating factor of people alive was a motivating factor of people alive at that point i just want a great at that point i just want a great at that point i just want a great experience experience experience but spirit has moved on but spirit has moved on but spirit has moved on so gen z is there and gen z is creating so gen z is there and gen z is creating so gen z is there and gen z is creating that spirit and i believe everyone is that spirit and i believe everyone is that spirit and i believe everyone is affected by that spirit of the time affected by that spirit of the time affected by that spirit of the time everyone alive right now and they're everyone alive right now and they're everyone alive right now and they're about belonging at an impact about belonging at an impact about belonging at an impact so marketing means thinking about that so marketing means thinking about that so marketing means thinking about that oh people are looking for belonging and oh people are looking for belonging and oh people are looking for belonging and impact so how do we as a church create

impact so how do we as a church create impact so how do we as a church create our environment our messaging our our environment our messaging our our environment our messaging our product even our teaching product even our teaching product even our teaching to focus on belonging and impact the to focus on belonging and impact the to focus on belonging and impact the thing people are looking for in this thing people are looking for in this thing people are looking for in this time and space so your department your time and space so your department your time and space so your department your job is really not just job is really not just job is really not just your your little slice because you got your your little slice because you got your your little slice because you got like students and children's and care like students and children's and care like students and children's and care ministry and worship and then ministry and worship and then ministry and worship and then communication you know you're impacting communication you know you're impacting communication you know you're impacting the entire what you might the entire what you might the entire what you might experience or the brand of what happens experience or the brand of what happens experience or the brand of what happens and your job is to say hey guys it's and your job is to say hey guys it's and your job is to say hey guys it's shifted shifted shifted we have to shift as a church if we want we have to shift as a church if we want we have to shift as a church if we want to stay relevant now the gospel is to stay relevant now the gospel is to stay relevant now the gospel is always going to be relevant but the way always going to be relevant but the way always going to be relevant but the way you package it up has to shift and you package it up has to shift and you package it up has to shift and change right yes uh absolutely so i change right yes uh absolutely so i change right yes uh absolutely so i would say marketing there is the lens would say marketing there is the lens would say marketing there is the lens you look through and the lens changes you look through and the lens changes you look through and the lens changes you know but it's a lens you look how do you know but it's a lens you look how do you know but it's a lens you look how do i do kids how do i do students how do i i do kids how do i do students how do i i do kids how do i do students how do i do worship how is it going to feel do worship how is it going to feel do worship how is it going to feel how do we need to change and adapt how do we need to change and adapt how do we need to change and adapt because one thing and that's maybe some because one thing and that's maybe some because one thing and that's maybe some when you ask with the question start when you ask with the question start when you ask with the question start with the question corporate versus with the question corporate versus with the question corporate versus church church church in corporate we always have to come up in corporate we always have to come up in corporate we always have to come up with a new product you know we're with a new product you know we're with a new product you know we're looking for a new need looking for a new need looking for a new need um so what's going on in the people what um so what's going on in the people what um so what's going on in the people what need is there let's build the product need is there let's build the product need is there let's build the product for that need and then let's package it for that need and then let's package it for that need and then let's package it and promote it so they will buy it right and promote it so they will buy it right and promote it so they will buy it right now now now so we as church so we as church so we as church we have the same product for 2 000 years we have the same product for 2 000 years we have the same product for 2 000 years it's the gospel it's the gospel it's the gospel and we know everyone has that need and we know everyone has that need and we know everyone has that need so therefore we are a little bit slow so therefore we are a little bit slow so therefore we are a little bit slow sometimes to adapting to how do we need sometimes to adapting to how do we need sometimes to adapting to how do we need to package it you know with with time to package it you know with with time to package it you know with with time changing and with things you know moving

changing and with things you know moving changing and with things you know moving on because we have the ultimate solution on because we have the ultimate solution on because we have the ultimate solution to every everyone's need right so it to every everyone's need right so it to every everyone's need right so it does fulfill right does fulfill right does fulfill right we know there's a need didn't change for we know there's a need didn't change for we know there's a need didn't change for 2000 years and we know there's a 2000 years and we know there's a 2000 years and we know there's a solution which is jesus christ solution which is jesus christ solution which is jesus christ and that didn't change so we like why and that didn't change so we like why and that didn't change so we like why should we change right um so should we change right um so should we change right um so um um um that's a big difference to that's a big difference to that's a big difference to a corporation which i was like nope this a corporation which i was like nope this a corporation which i was like nope this is not working anymore let's change is not working anymore let's change is not working anymore let's change right blockbuster didn't change you know right blockbuster didn't change you know right blockbuster didn't change you know so see what happens yeah so see what happens yeah so see what happens yeah right um so they had a product there was right um so they had a product there was right um so they had a product there was a need a need a need you know so you know so you know so um you need to go with that a little bit um you need to go with that a little bit um you need to go with that a little bit without changing the gospel without without changing the gospel without without changing the gospel without changing there's a need but how do we changing there's a need but how do we changing there's a need but how do we package it how do we talk in a way that package it how do we talk in a way that package it how do we talk in a way that people today understand it and can people today understand it and can people today understand it and can receive it um which is very different to receive it um which is very different to receive it um which is very different to you in the 80s right oh yeah you in the 80s right oh yeah you in the 80s right oh yeah let me let me press into that a little let me let me press into that a little let me let me press into that a little bit um bit um bit um in your role in your role in your role how do you lead up organizationally to how do you lead up organizationally to how do you lead up organizationally to help the leaders at 12 stone help the leaders at 12 stone help the leaders at 12 stone see the need for the shift or see the see the need for the shift or see the see the need for the shift or see the need for repackaging this age old need for repackaging this age old need for repackaging this age old timeless never changing message um you timeless never changing message um you timeless never changing message um you know how do you how do you lead up in know how do you how do you lead up in know how do you how do you lead up in that how do you help them see what you that how do you help them see what you that how do you help them see what you see to be flexible and to be able to see to be flexible and to be able to see to be flexible and to be able to adapt to adapt to adapt to the zeitgeist the zeitgeist the zeitgeist well done well done well done good use of good use of good use of um um um so i'm fortunate our leadership so i'm fortunate our leadership so i'm fortunate our leadership is so open is so open is so open to be like no we want to reach people

to be like no we want to reach people to be like no we want to reach people for jesus we're not for jesus we're not for jesus we're not stuck on our system we're not stuck on stuck on our system we're not stuck on stuck on our system we're not stuck on how we do it or how we do it or how we do it or um what we do right now we actually um what we do right now we actually um what we do right now we actually we're always on on the lookout for how we're always on on the lookout for how we're always on on the lookout for how how do we reach the most people for how do we reach the most people for how do we reach the most people for jesus jesus jesus um and that's i'm just really fortunate um and that's i'm just really fortunate um and that's i'm just really fortunate to be in a position like that where to be in a position like that where to be in a position like that where they're saying like help us they're saying like help us they're saying like help us help us do this help us do this better help us do this help us do this better help us do this help us do this better um and and that's that's what especially um and and that's that's what especially um and and that's that's what especially in covid was like that's let's be in covid was like that's let's be in covid was like that's let's be innovative let's start thinking new innovative let's start thinking new innovative let's start thinking new let's start doing new things and let's start doing new things and let's start doing new things and um one thing we did in during covet was um one thing we did in during covet was um one thing we did in during covet was we built what we call 12 zone home we built what we call 12 zone home we built what we call 12 zone home so we actually built a so we actually built a so we actually built a a product i would call it a product i would call it a product i would call it which is which is which is not just an online church or someone not just an online church or someone not just an online church or someone watching online at home watching online at home watching online at home but we said no we don't we don't believe but we said no we don't we don't believe but we said no we don't we don't believe that's enough like campuses are great that's enough like campuses are great that's enough like campuses are great you know but campuses are very limited you know but campuses are very limited you know but campuses are very limited and in covet you couldn't go to a campus and in covet you couldn't go to a campus and in covet you couldn't go to a campus so how do you actually have church in a so how do you actually have church in a so how do you actually have church in a smaller environment and then thinking smaller environment and then thinking smaller environment and then thinking about what i just said that zeitgeist of about what i just said that zeitgeist of about what i just said that zeitgeist of belonging and impact so how can you make belonging and impact so how can you make belonging and impact so how can you make a church focused on belonging and impact a church focused on belonging and impact a church focused on belonging and impact so let's start 12 zone home gatherings so let's start 12 zone home gatherings so let's start 12 zone home gatherings all across the country where people all across the country where people all across the country where people actually engage in our worship and in actually engage in our worship and in actually engage in our worship and in our teaching but not alone but in in our teaching but not alone but in in our teaching but not alone but in in gatherings which are led gatherings which are led gatherings which are led so we're coaching and training leaders so we're coaching and training leaders so we're coaching and training leaders all across the country who are meeting all across the country who are meeting all across the country who are meeting with with a group of people in with with a group of people in with with a group of people in bars in coffee shops in living rooms and bars in coffee shops in living rooms and bars in coffee shops in living rooms and it's not just here look watch something

it's not just here look watch something it's not just here look watch something but we're actually coaching we're but we're actually coaching we're but we're actually coaching we're training we're helping them understand training we're helping them understand training we're helping them understand so it's a group that's focused on so it's a group that's focused on so it's a group that's focused on belonging and making impact in their belonging and making impact in their belonging and making impact in their neighborhood neighborhood neighborhood where we with our physical campuses where we with our physical campuses where we with our physical campuses could not reach could not reach could not reach now now now so your leadership embraces this did you so your leadership embraces this did you so your leadership embraces this did you have to educate them or were they have to educate them or were they have to educate them or were they already open to like knowing your already open to like knowing your already open to like knowing your background and knowing what your the background and knowing what your the background and knowing what your the experience you bring and i'm thinking experience you bring and i'm thinking experience you bring and i'm thinking about a lot of the people who listen to about a lot of the people who listen to about a lot of the people who listen to this podcast they're going this podcast they're going this podcast they're going my lead pastor is so focused on this how my lead pastor is so focused on this how my lead pastor is so focused on this how would i ever get to them to explain what would i ever get to them to explain what would i ever get to them to explain what we need to focus on i mean how did that we need to focus on i mean how did that we need to focus on i mean how did that work for you work for you work for you um um um i think it was the reason i was hired i think it was the reason i was hired i think it was the reason i was hired so they so they so they knew me and they knew what i was doing knew me and they knew what i was doing knew me and they knew what i was doing um and i think it was a so we were um and i think it was a so we were um and i think it was a so we were already a mega church at that point already a mega church at that point already a mega church at that point so i think there was an intentional so i think there was an intentional so i think there was an intentional like like like desire to be like no we need to go in desire to be like no we need to go in desire to be like no we need to go in that direction so let's hire someone that direction so let's hire someone that direction so let's hire someone who's been successful outside in who's been successful outside in who's been successful outside in corporate marketing and get that corporate marketing and get that corporate marketing and get that expertise inside so i think i had a foot expertise inside so i think i had a foot expertise inside so i think i had a foot in the door to do that which is not like in the door to do that which is not like in the door to do that which is not like oh i have this brilliant idea how you oh i have this brilliant idea how you oh i have this brilliant idea how you can get your leadership to do this can get your leadership to do this can get your leadership to do this um um um but also it's just i i do think it's but also it's just i i do think it's but also it's just i i do think it's education it's really education there's education it's really education there's education it's really education there's a lot of a lot of a lot of and i rightfully so a senior pastor does and i rightfully so a senior pastor does and i rightfully so a senior pastor does not need to be a marketing professional not need to be a marketing professional not need to be a marketing professional how could he right you know he's how could he right you know he's how could he right you know he's he's so busy and he's he's supposed to he's so busy and he's he's supposed to he's so busy and he's he's supposed to be the guy you know like connecting to

be the guy you know like connecting to be the guy you know like connecting to jesus looking like what's going on what jesus looking like what's going on what jesus looking like what's going on what do i need to teach on what's the heart do i need to teach on what's the heart do i need to teach on what's the heart of this church and pastor people and all of this church and pastor people and all of this church and pastor people and all that that that um um um so if so if so if so i don't expect them to understand so i don't expect them to understand so i don't expect them to understand that i don't expect everyone to be like that i don't expect everyone to be like that i don't expect everyone to be like oh yeah this is this is marketing oh yeah this is this is marketing oh yeah this is this is marketing um and this is how it works so i do um and this is how it works so i do um and this is how it works so i do think there's a lot of education that think there's a lot of education that think there's a lot of education that can be done and can be done and can be done and um um um and it's it's something which is you and it's it's something which is you and it's it's something which is you know when you look at the church we're know when you look at the church we're know when you look at the church we're we're growing and we all have puzzle we're growing and we all have puzzle we're growing and we all have puzzle pieces we're putting together right um pieces we're putting together right um pieces we're putting together right um a couple of decades ago no one would a couple of decades ago no one would a couple of decades ago no one would have thought you can do i.t in a church have thought you can do i.t in a church have thought you can do i.t in a church right now we have great i.t people right now we have great i.t people right now we have great i.t people building all this and making it able to building all this and making it able to building all this and making it able to stream to campuses and online and stream to campuses and online and stream to campuses and online and everything so suddenly i t is part of everything so suddenly i t is part of everything so suddenly i t is part of ministry ministry ministry um then you got you know i got social um then you got you know i got social um then you got you know i got social media going on right now like there's a media going on right now like there's a media going on right now like there's a lot to learn about social media and it's lot to learn about social media and it's lot to learn about social media and it's something new a new thing the church is something new a new thing the church is something new a new thing the church is being educated on you need education how being educated on you need education how being educated on you need education how to use social media um which is um a lot to use social media um which is um a lot to use social media um which is um a lot where what we're trying to figure out where what we're trying to figure out where what we're trying to figure out how to use it well especially because how to use it well especially because how to use it well especially because social media is more social than media social media is more social than media social media is more social than media but we often just put media out right no but we often just put media out right no but we often just put media out right no it's actually about connecting it's it's actually about connecting it's it's actually about connecting it's talking to people it's liking posting talking to people it's liking posting talking to people it's liking posting resharing if you don't answer on social resharing if you don't answer on social resharing if you don't answer on social media to a comment it's kind of like media to a comment it's kind of like media to a comment it's kind of like like a pastor not answering you when you like a pastor not answering you when you like a pastor not answering you when you ask him a question ask him a question ask him a question like we always do that right like if if like we always do that right like if if like we always do that right like if if you're a pastor in a room and you ask a you're a pastor in a room and you ask a you're a pastor in a room and you ask a question and you're always going to say question and you're always going to say question and you're always going to say something back on social media we're something back on social media we're something back on social media we're kind of okay with just putting out our kind of okay with just putting out our kind of okay with just putting out our content and not answering content and not answering content and not answering so there's is really education um where so there's is really education um where so there's is really education um where we have to a little bit catch up with

we have to a little bit catch up with we have to a little bit catch up with what the industry is doing what the industry is doing what the industry is doing um because now we're out there in a um because now we're out there in a um because now we're out there in a world which is world which is world which is um disconnected from people um disconnected from people um disconnected from people and if you're disconnected from people and if you're disconnected from people and if you're disconnected from people we need to we we need to be like oh what we need to we we need to be like oh what we need to we we need to be like oh what did other people do who were just were did other people do who were just were did other people do who were just were there there there i said back i said back i said back normally the gospel is always connected normally the gospel is always connected normally the gospel is always connected to a person right right almost be in to a person right right almost be in to a person right right almost be in relationship so if you're in relationship so if you're in relationship so if you're in relationship and sharing the gospel you relationship and sharing the gospel you relationship and sharing the gospel you have a person you connect to he can have a person you connect to he can have a person you connect to he can answer he can or you see like oh he's answer he can or you see like oh he's answer he can or you see like oh he's not living like that was you know that's not living like that was you know that's not living like that was you know that's a reaction always like wow yeah i want a reaction always like wow yeah i want a reaction always like wow yeah i want to have what he has to have what he has to have what he has but now we have the gospel out there but now we have the gospel out there but now we have the gospel out there without relationship to people without relationship to people without relationship to people so let's learn from the people who've so let's learn from the people who've so let's learn from the people who've been using that been using that been using that um who've been delivering their product um who've been delivering their product um who've been delivering their product without relationship let's learn from without relationship let's learn from without relationship let's learn from them how did they do that how did that them how did they do that how did that them how did they do that how did that work um and then that's how do we then work um and then that's how do we then work um and then that's how do we then bring it back into a relationship bring it back into a relationship bring it back into a relationship interesting interesting interesting we were talking uh before we started we were talking uh before we started we were talking uh before we started recording about the fact that you have recording about the fact that you have recording about the fact that you have this corporate background which this corporate background which this corporate background which you have been kind of sort of you have been kind of sort of you have been kind of sort of transplanted into into the church and transplanted into into the church and transplanted into into the church and into local ministry and i find it very into local ministry and i find it very into local ministry and i find it very intriguing uh the fact that the intriguing uh the fact that the intriguing uh the fact that the leadership at 12 stone went out of their leadership at 12 stone went out of their leadership at 12 stone went out of their way to find a guy who would use terms way to find a guy who would use terms way to find a guy who would use terms like zeitgeist like zeitgeist like zeitgeist in the context of the local church um in the context of the local church um in the context of the local church um because you you don't come across and because you you don't come across and because you you don't come across and even when i was reading your profile you even when i was reading your profile you even when i was reading your profile you know months ago when i was like hey i'm know months ago when i was like hey i'm know months ago when i was like hey i'm going to reach out to peer i'm like this going to reach out to peer i'm like this going to reach out to peer i'm like this is not a guy who has a prototypical is not a guy who has a prototypical is not a guy who has a prototypical church communications background you've church communications background you've church communications background you've done a lot of different things and

done a lot of different things and done a lot of different things and obviously obviously obviously you know you probably had to make some you know you probably had to make some you know you probably had to make some adaptation personally in terms of adaptation personally in terms of adaptation personally in terms of how you how you how you lead and how you uh manage lead and how you uh manage lead and how you uh manage communications in the context of uh communications in the context of uh communications in the context of uh of the church and one of the things that of the church and one of the things that of the church and one of the things that it is is always very different is that it is is always very different is that it is is always very different is that in the local church we place a large in the local church we place a large in the local church we place a large emphasis on both internal communications emphasis on both internal communications emphasis on both internal communications as well as external communications or as well as external communications or as well as external communications or internal marketing versus external internal marketing versus external internal marketing versus external marketing in the corporate environment marketing in the corporate environment marketing in the corporate environment that those are often very very different that those are often very very different that those are often very very different things right you might have a things right you might have a things right you might have a communications department whose focus is communications department whose focus is communications department whose focus is making sure that staff and employees and making sure that staff and employees and making sure that staff and employees and people within the company know what's people within the company know what's people within the company know what's going on and know what they need to know going on and know what they need to know going on and know what they need to know but the people that are doing the but the people that are doing the but the people that are doing the external marketing external marketing external marketing it's a completely different department it's a completely different department it's a completely different department with completely different objectives and with completely different objectives and with completely different objectives and a completely different budget but inside a completely different budget but inside a completely different budget but inside the church it tends to be the same team the church it tends to be the same team the church it tends to be the same team of people so as you lead the of people so as you lead the of people so as you lead the communications efforts at 12 stone both communications efforts at 12 stone both communications efforts at 12 stone both internal and external how do you internal and external how do you internal and external how do you prioritize those things and and you can prioritize those things and and you can prioritize those things and and you can you can get as granular as as you want you can get as granular as as you want you can get as granular as as you want to in terms of you know how you how you to in terms of you know how you how you to in terms of you know how you how you have built and design your team have built and design your team have built and design your team to focus on internal versus external to focus on internal versus external to focus on internal versus external communications maybe how you budget communications maybe how you budget communications maybe how you budget differently for internal versus external differently for internal versus external differently for internal versus external but i would just like to hear your but i would just like to hear your but i would just like to hear your thought process on you know when you thought process on you know when you thought process on you know when you have initiatives coming up in the have initiatives coming up in the have initiatives coming up in the context of the church uh how you think context of the church uh how you think context of the church uh how you think about your own church body and the 12 about your own church body and the 12 about your own church body and the 12 stone family and what's important to stone family and what's important to stone family and what's important to communicate and how you're communicating communicate and how you're communicating communicate and how you're communicating to them versus what you're trying to to them versus what you're trying to to them versus what you're trying to communicate outside the context of the

communicate outside the context of the communicate outside the context of the church and the people that you're trying church and the people that you're trying church and the people that you're trying to reach to reach to reach yeah yeah yeah um that's a good question i would i um that's a good question i would i um that's a good question i would i would start with would start with would start with i like communication to be i like communication to be i like communication to be very focused very focused very focused um so we try to be as focused as um so we try to be as focused as um so we try to be as focused as possible in communication um i possible in communication um i possible in communication um i i'm a very big fan of simplicity clarity i'm a very big fan of simplicity clarity i'm a very big fan of simplicity clarity and alignment so if you get and alignment so if you get and alignment so if you get a simple thing you know it's very and a simple thing you know it's very and a simple thing you know it's very and it's very clear to understand you need it's very clear to understand you need it's very clear to understand you need to align it across all all things you're to align it across all all things you're to align it across all all things you're kind of doing kind of doing kind of doing um when i think about external versus um when i think about external versus um when i think about external versus internal internal internal i more think about i more think about i more think about promotion versus promotion versus promotion versus account management account management account management so in in a corporation like internal so in in a corporation like internal so in in a corporation like internal what you you would call internal like what you you would call internal like what you you would call internal like your congregation like those are your your congregation like those are your your congregation like those are your those are your key accounts right in in those are your key accounts right in in those are your key accounts right in in a normal corporation so you manage those a normal corporation so you manage those a normal corporation so you manage those accounts you want to keep them informed accounts you want to keep them informed accounts you want to keep them informed and you want to keep them um felt cared and you want to keep them um felt cared and you want to keep them um felt cared for but you don't need to tell them for but you don't need to tell them for but you don't need to tell them about everything you're doing about everything you're doing about everything you're doing because they're part of your system because they're part of your system because they're part of your system um versus um versus um versus external what i would call promotion external what i would call promotion external what i would call promotion um is do you want new people to see it um is do you want new people to see it um is do you want new people to see it so i think those those are the two so i think those those are the two so i think those those are the two distinct things i would say like one is distinct things i would say like one is distinct things i would say like one is more actually key account management and more actually key account management and more actually key account management and key account management in key account management in key account management in in the corporate world is often very in the corporate world is often very in the corporate world is often very relational relational relational so um like if you have your key accounts so um like if you have your key accounts so um like if you have your key accounts you don't just send them an email and you don't just send them an email and you don't just send them an email and that's it um so it's more like how do we that's it um so it's more like how do we that's it um so it's more like how do we how do we build also a system of of how do we build also a system of of how do we build also a system of of one-to-one communication how do we get

one-to-one communication how do we get one-to-one communication how do we get people together how do we talk how are people together how do we talk how are people together how do we talk how are we not just um giving out more and more we not just um giving out more and more we not just um giving out more and more information um i don't think that's very information um i don't think that's very information um i don't think that's very helpful helpful helpful um so for me the internal communication um so for me the internal communication um so for me the internal communication is very much built around actual um is very much built around actual um is very much built around actual um engagement one-on-one person to person engagement one-on-one person to person engagement one-on-one person to person so if so if so if you want to go back why am i saying that you want to go back why am i saying that you want to go back why am i saying that um i try to lead off values versus um i try to lead off values versus um i try to lead off values versus opinion and my values are based out of opinion and my values are based out of opinion and my values are based out of something like zeitgeist we talked about something like zeitgeist we talked about something like zeitgeist we talked about um the zeitgeist as when we think about um the zeitgeist as when we think about um the zeitgeist as when we think about belonging and impact belonging and impact belonging and impact um one of the things that has changed in um one of the things that has changed in um one of the things that has changed in the zeitgeist is that i would say people the zeitgeist is that i would say people the zeitgeist is that i would say people are are are valuing time over stuff valuing time over stuff valuing time over stuff um so if you have a value and this is a um so if you have a value and this is a um so if you have a value and this is a value we go after which is time over value we go after which is time over value we go after which is time over stuff stuff stuff it's like okay how can we make it um it's like okay how can we make it um it's like okay how can we make it um instead of let's have another mug or instead of let's have another mug or instead of let's have another mug or another you know like some swag or another you know like some swag or another you know like some swag or whatever it is give them stuff or just whatever it is give them stuff or just whatever it is give them stuff or just give them another email or another um give them another email or another um give them another email or another um bulletin that's actually hey actually bulletin that's actually hey actually bulletin that's actually hey actually have a coffee with them have a coffee with them have a coffee with them right you know it's like give them time right you know it's like give them time right you know it's like give them time give them five minutes is way more give them five minutes is way more give them five minutes is way more impactful than giving them another email impactful than giving them another email impactful than giving them another email or another something especially because or another something especially because or another something especially because these are your people these are your people these are your people don't treat them like they're new don't treat them like they're new don't treat them like they're new customers you have to somehow get into customers you have to somehow get into customers you have to somehow get into your system no they're your people your system no they're your people your system no they're your people they're you know like give time over they're you know like give time over they're you know like give time over stuff that's like a focus i would say stuff that's like a focus i would say stuff that's like a focus i would say which we put as a value out for the

which we put as a value out for the which we put as a value out for the internal communication internal communication internal communication wow wow wow um and so how do you um so what's the um and so how do you um so what's the um and so how do you um so what's the strategy on on strategy on on strategy on on communicating to the staff and maybe communicating to the staff and maybe communicating to the staff and maybe volunteers that it's about time volunteers that it's about time volunteers that it's about time not not not something else how do you how do you something else how do you how do you something else how do you how do you implement that implement that implement that how you give time over stuff or how do how you give time over stuff or how do how you give time over stuff or how do you you you um so one is um so one is um so one is education again it's like guys let's education again it's like guys let's education again it's like guys let's this is a value we're putting out this is a value we're putting out this is a value we're putting out um let's let's get together as a staff um let's let's get together as a staff um let's let's get together as a staff and we're going to emphasize time over and we're going to emphasize time over and we're going to emphasize time over stuff so it's more important to stuff so it's more important to stuff so it's more important to reach five people personally with five reach five people personally with five reach five people personally with five minutes than to reach 50 people with minutes than to reach 50 people with minutes than to reach 50 people with something unpersonal something unpersonal something unpersonal um um um so because in the end you're going to so because in the end you're going to so because in the end you're going to have a trickle-down effect because if have a trickle-down effect because if have a trickle-down effect because if you care well for five people they're you care well for five people they're you care well for five people they're gonna care well for five people they're gonna care well for five people they're gonna care well for five people they're gonna care well for five people versus gonna care well for five people versus gonna care well for five people versus if you care not well for 50 people you if you care not well for 50 people you if you care not well for 50 people you didn't reach anyone yeah so if people didn't reach anyone yeah so if people didn't reach anyone yeah so if people are actually looking for something are actually looking for something are actually looking for something personal belonging right if um it's personal belonging right if um it's personal belonging right if um it's it's it's the reason why and this is it's it's the reason why and this is it's it's the reason why and this is you're gonna laugh about this one but you're gonna laugh about this one but you're gonna laugh about this one but this is kind of like the reason why this is kind of like the reason why this is kind of like the reason why twitter works twitter works twitter works i say one thing to my five friends i say one thing to my five friends i say one thing to my five friends they trust me they retweet it they trust me they retweet it they trust me they retweet it to five of their friends to five of their friends to five of their friends those five friends they don't even know those five friends they don't even know those five friends they don't even know me me me but they retweet my thing because but they retweet my thing because but they retweet my thing because someone who they trust someone who they trust someone who they trust said that too and trusted me and that said that too and trusted me and that said that too and trusted me and that goes on

goes on goes on so if so if so if it's a bit slower it's a bit slower it's a bit slower and belong in an impact is not mass and belong in an impact is not mass and belong in an impact is not mass marketable marketable marketable but actually what you need to do is you but actually what you need to do is you but actually what you need to do is you need to care for five people who care need to care for five people who care need to care for five people who care for five people who care for five people for five people who care for five people for five people who care for five people and that's a way and that's a way and that's a way better way to care for your congregation better way to care for your congregation better way to care for your congregation than just to blast them with than just to blast them with than just to blast them with stuff yeah is that is that that kind of stuff yeah is that is that that kind of stuff yeah is that is that that kind of little bit yeah it does i mean it's it's little bit yeah it does i mean it's it's little bit yeah it does i mean it's it's a yeah a yeah a yeah that's quotable pure that's quotable i that's quotable pure that's quotable i that's quotable pure that's quotable i like that a lot i i i'm going to use like that a lot i i i'm going to use like that a lot i i i'm going to use that one okay go ahead and that's that one okay go ahead and that's that one okay go ahead and that's ministry that's ministry right there ministry that's ministry right there ministry that's ministry right there yeah and it's loving on people yeah i yeah and it's loving on people yeah i yeah and it's loving on people yeah i think that's a good point you make jason think that's a good point you make jason think that's a good point you make jason because you know one of the things that because you know one of the things that because you know one of the things that you you were hitting on a minute ago you you were hitting on a minute ago you you were hitting on a minute ago here is the fact that you know we have here is the fact that you know we have here is the fact that you know we have i.t in the church now and you have all i.t in the church now and you have all i.t in the church now and you have all this team of people who have these gifts this team of people who have these gifts this team of people who have these gifts and these talents and these abilities and these talents and these abilities and these talents and these abilities that they felt called to ministry but that they felt called to ministry but that they felt called to ministry but how do i use them in the context of how do i use them in the context of how do i use them in the context of ministry um and i'm thinking back jason ministry um and i'm thinking back jason ministry um and i'm thinking back jason to the conversation that we had with uh to the conversation that we had with uh to the conversation that we had with uh caitlyn van wager wagner at watermark caitlyn van wager wagner at watermark caitlyn van wager wagner at watermark and and and just this framework of understanding just this framework of understanding just this framework of understanding that communications that communications that communications and marketing is ministry and the more and marketing is ministry and the more and marketing is ministry and the more personal we can make it the more personal we can make it the more personal we can make it the more we can realize that it's not just about we can realize that it's not just about we can realize that it's not just about social media posts and youtube videos social media posts and youtube videos social media posts and youtube videos and pieces of printed material that and pieces of printed material that and pieces of printed material that we're mailing out or handing out but we're mailing out or handing out but we're mailing out or handing out but there's actually people on the other there's actually people on the other there's actually people on the other side of that whose stories matter side of that whose stories matter side of that whose stories matter people who jesus died for and who jesus people who jesus died for and who jesus people who jesus died for and who jesus is now calling us to connect with in is now calling us to connect with in is now calling us to connect with in some way to help them in their spiritual some way to help them in their spiritual some way to help them in their spiritual journey it really changes the

journey it really changes the journey it really changes the perspective on on what we're doing and perspective on on what we're doing and perspective on on what we're doing and why we're doing what we're doing it's why we're doing what we're doing it's why we're doing what we're doing it's not all about clicks to the website not all about clicks to the website not all about clicks to the website right right right i love that i love that i love that relationship is the product relationship is the product relationship is the product because it's the gospel it's what jesus because it's the gospel it's what jesus because it's the gospel it's what jesus did for us is what god it's it is the did for us is what god it's it is the did for us is what god it's it is the product and so i love yeah it's like you product and so i love yeah it's like you product and so i love yeah it's like you we get so focused on oh we got to get we get so focused on oh we got to get we get so focused on oh we got to get people into our christmas eve or we got people into our christmas eve or we got people into our christmas eve or we got to get them into our you know harvest to get them into our you know harvest to get them into our you know harvest festival event or whatever which is fine festival event or whatever which is fine festival event or whatever which is fine but if you don't have that relationship but if you don't have that relationship but if you don't have that relationship element element element you're failing you're failing you're failing right because that's that is right because that's that is right because that's that is ministry that's the gospel wow yes and i ministry that's the gospel wow yes and i ministry that's the gospel wow yes and i i would say i completely agree even what i would say i completely agree even what i would say i completely agree even what you said um for us i have a social media you said um for us i have a social media you said um for us i have a social media pastor pastor pastor you know it's like that that's what he you know it's like that that's what he you know it's like that that's what he does he's a social media pastor he's not does he's a social media pastor he's not does he's a social media pastor he's not a content poster right that's that's not a content poster right that's that's not a content poster right that's that's not what he's doing he's actually pastoring what he's doing he's actually pastoring what he's doing he's actually pastoring people and when you think about it more people and when you think about it more people and when you think about it more and and this is how how we talk about it and and this is how how we talk about it and and this is how how we talk about it too like more people will see this post too like more people will see this post too like more people will see this post and actually listen to the senior and actually listen to the senior and actually listen to the senior pastor's sermon pastor's sermon pastor's sermon [Music] [Music] [Music] and it's it's just it's just what and it's it's just it's just what and it's it's just it's just what happens so happens so happens so as much thought needs to go into this as much thought needs to go into this as much thought needs to go into this and there needs to be as much engagement and there needs to be as much engagement and there needs to be as much engagement and how are we doing this and and how are we doing this and and how are we doing this and um um um a thing we always say is like let's do a thing we always say is like let's do a thing we always say is like let's do less but better you know let's make a less but better you know let's make a less but better you know let's make a post which really makes sense which post which really makes sense which post which really makes sense which engages people and we talk about it and engages people and we talk about it and engages people and we talk about it and then kind of what i said before then then kind of what i said before then then kind of what i said before then people comment and you have to reply people comment and you have to reply people comment and you have to reply right and people do this and you have to right and people do this and you have to right and people do this and you have to share their content and then you share their content and then you share their content and then you actually build a ministry out of this

actually build a ministry out of this actually build a ministry out of this where it's like no we're talking to where it's like no we're talking to where it's like no we're talking to people we're spending time with people people we're spending time with people people we're spending time with people we're not just giving them even we're not just giving them even we're not just giving them even digitally right you know but it's we're digitally right you know but it's we're digitally right you know but it's we're still spending time with them and often still spending time with them and often still spending time with them and often they have a question and we take them they have a question and we take them they have a question and we take them off into off into off into um um um and just direct message so we can we can and just direct message so we can we can and just direct message so we can we can answer the questions so it doesn't answer the questions so it doesn't answer the questions so it doesn't explode on you know like on the post and explode on you know like on the post and explode on you know like on the post and um so we actually always try to do that um so we actually always try to do that um so we actually always try to do that and that often that also takes out a lot and that often that also takes out a lot and that often that also takes out a lot of hostility because we're actually of hostility because we're actually of hostility because we're actually talking to people because someone's talking to people because someone's talking to people because someone's actually there there's time spent into actually there there's time spent into actually there there's time spent into it whether it's just stuff put out there it whether it's just stuff put out there it whether it's just stuff put out there and this is like yeah just listen to it and this is like yeah just listen to it and this is like yeah just listen to it or watch it or something like that or watch it or something like that or watch it or something like that um and that way like you said it becomes um and that way like you said it becomes um and that way like you said it becomes ministry ministry ministry instead of oh it's just um kind of like instead of oh it's just um kind of like instead of oh it's just um kind of like something i give to a ministry something i give to a ministry something i give to a ministry so you so you learned a ton in the so you so you learned a ton in the so you so you learned a ton in the secular world corporate world secular world corporate world secular world corporate world and then you you hop into this ministry and then you you hop into this ministry and then you you hop into this ministry world world world um running this department what's been um running this department what's been um running this department what's been kind of one of the biggest things you've kind of one of the biggest things you've kind of one of the biggest things you've had to overcome or your greatest had to overcome or your greatest had to overcome or your greatest challenge that you're you're facing and challenge that you're you're facing and challenge that you're you're facing and have you overcome it have you overcome it have you overcome it um um um eight challenge i face is because i've eight challenge i face is because i've eight challenge i face is because i've done corporate marketing for so long i done corporate marketing for so long i done corporate marketing for so long i just always want to do it just always want to do it just always want to do it bigger and more and give it out there bigger and more and give it out there bigger and more and give it out there and kind of like and then i have to put and kind of like and then i have to put and kind of like and then i have to put myself back into the values like what myself back into the values like what myself back into the values like what i'm actually doing here i'm not trying i'm actually doing here i'm not trying i'm actually doing here i'm not trying to manipulate people into liking what to manipulate people into liking what to manipulate people into liking what i'm doing i'm doing i'm doing as a church let's not try to do that as a church let's not try to do that as a church let's not try to do that let's try to actually reach people

let's try to actually reach people let's try to actually reach people for jesus for jesus for jesus how do we go like instead of just going how do we go like instead of just going how do we go like instead of just going more and more and more let's be like no more and more and more let's be like no more and more and more let's be like no let's go deeper deeper deeper how do you let's go deeper deeper deeper how do you let's go deeper deeper deeper how do you build relationships how do we build relationships how do we build relationships how do we find a way to find a way to find a way to um have um have um have even more digital ministries you know even more digital ministries you know even more digital ministries you know like online social media but also our like online social media but also our like online social media but also our on-site ministries how do we use it to on-site ministries how do we use it to on-site ministries how do we use it to get deeper into something instead of get deeper into something instead of get deeper into something instead of just having a successful promotional just having a successful promotional just having a successful promotional marketing campaign right that that's marketing campaign right that that's marketing campaign right that that's kind of like something marketers can kind of like something marketers can kind of like something marketers can build but is that really what we're build but is that really what we're build but is that really what we're supposed to be doing yeah um and that's supposed to be doing yeah um and that's supposed to be doing yeah um and that's a question that that is there and i'm i a question that that is there and i'm i a question that that is there and i'm i think a challenge for me and i just i think a challenge for me and i just i think a challenge for me and i just i i'm what i like to work on and what's i'm what i like to work on and what's i'm what i like to work on and what's also an opportunity is also an opportunity is also an opportunity is um a phrase what we've been talking about a phrase what we've been talking about is like how is like how is like how let's get to a point let's get to a point let's get to a point um where we never point but we're always um where we never point but we're always um where we never point but we're always present present present so what we do a lot as churches and when so what we do a lot as churches and when so what we do a lot as churches and when i because that's something i see we i because that's something i see we i because that's something i see we always point people towards something always point people towards something always point people towards something come on sunday go to this course come on sunday go to this course come on sunday go to this course um um um but but but people have a immediate need people have a immediate need people have a immediate need where you need to be present to help where you need to be present to help where you need to be present to help them them them um um um so what i've seen for instance like we so what i've seen for instance like we so what i've seen for instance like we post um most of the people who have post um most of the people who have post um most of the people who have problems with anxiety and maybe even problems with anxiety and maybe even problems with anxiety and maybe even suicide never have that during our suicide never have that during our suicide never have that during our office hours office hours office hours they have that at midnight right they have that at midnight right they have that at midnight right um so they go to our website maybe they um so they go to our website maybe they um so they go to our website maybe they find us and then we say come on sunday

find us and then we say come on sunday find us and then we say come on sunday call us tomorrow um we might get back to call us tomorrow um we might get back to call us tomorrow um we might get back to you um something like that but needs are you um something like that but needs are you um something like that but needs are immediate immediate immediate yeah yeah yeah but we always point so how do we as but we always point so how do we as but we always point so how do we as markers as church as communicators how markers as church as communicators how markers as church as communicators how do we get to a point where we do we get to a point where we do we get to a point where we never point but we're always present that's quotable that's quotable yeah yeah yeah that's really good that's really good that's really good that's really good that's really good that's really good it is it's a really good point i think it is it's a really good point i think it is it's a really good point i think that you know we we can as a church we that you know we we can as a church we that you know we we can as a church we can become so can become so can become so sunday morning centric sunday morning centric sunday morning centric that everything that we're trying to do that everything that we're trying to do that everything that we're trying to do is is aimed at driving people to a is is aimed at driving people to a is is aimed at driving people to a 60-minute 70-minute experience 60-minute 70-minute experience 60-minute 70-minute experience engagement on a sunday morning when the engagement on a sunday morning when the engagement on a sunday morning when the reality is the people most of the people reality is the people most of the people reality is the people most of the people that god has called us to reach who are that god has called us to reach who are that god has called us to reach who are not yet reached not yet reached not yet reached they're looking for they're looking for they're looking for a whole lot of other stuff that has a whole lot of other stuff that has a whole lot of other stuff that has nothing to do with what takes place in nothing to do with what takes place in nothing to do with what takes place in an hour on a sunday morning they weren't an hour on a sunday morning they weren't an hour on a sunday morning they weren't really looking for a place to go listen really looking for a place to go listen really looking for a place to go listen to a live band on sunday morning they to a live band on sunday morning they to a live band on sunday morning they weren't really looking to go and listen weren't really looking to go and listen weren't really looking to go and listen to some guy talk for 30 or 40 minutes to some guy talk for 30 or 40 minutes to some guy talk for 30 or 40 minutes about some person that they're really about some person that they're really about some person that they're really not familiar with who lived 2000 years not familiar with who lived 2000 years not familiar with who lived 2000 years ago they're looking for relationship and ago they're looking for relationship and ago they're looking for relationship and and and and solutions to immediate needs and solutions to immediate needs and solutions to immediate needs and ultimately we want to connect people to ultimately we want to connect people to ultimately we want to connect people to the person and the the the and the person and the the the and the person and the the the and to the person jesus and to to lead them to the person jesus and to to lead them to the person jesus and to to lead them towards a saving faith in jesus but just towards a saving faith in jesus but just towards a saving faith in jesus but just like jesus a lot of times we have to like jesus a lot of times we have to like jesus a lot of times we have to address other needs before we can get

address other needs before we can get address other needs before we can get their attention for their spiritual their attention for their spiritual their attention for their spiritual needs and um needs and um needs and um and we have to be willing just as jesus and we have to be willing just as jesus and we have to be willing just as jesus was to help people with those immediate was to help people with those immediate was to help people with those immediate needs and those felt needs and needs and those felt needs and needs and those felt needs and understand that they might not choose to understand that they might not choose to understand that they might not choose to be with us they might actually choose to be with us they might actually choose to be with us they might actually choose to move on in another in another direction move on in another in another direction move on in another in another direction and that's just the reality of people and that's just the reality of people and that's just the reality of people and ministry um we have a couple more and ministry um we have a couple more and ministry um we have a couple more minutes here oh go ahead you have minutes here oh go ahead you have minutes here oh go ahead you have something to add to that just kind of do something to add to that just kind of do something to add to that just kind of do that so i i there's something where that so i i there's something where that so i i there's something where um we're often trying to get people to um we're often trying to get people to um we're often trying to get people to where the message and the gospel is where the message and the gospel is where the message and the gospel is instead of getting the message the instead of getting the message the instead of getting the message the gospel out to where the people are gospel out to where the people are gospel out to where the people are um and that's a little bit like like um and that's a little bit like like um and that's a little bit like like like how do we solve that problem as like how do we solve that problem as like how do we solve that problem as marketers as com as communication that marketers as com as communication that marketers as com as communication that you know and in our ministries um and i you know and in our ministries um and i you know and in our ministries um and i mentioned something like false on home mentioned something like false on home mentioned something like false on home or other thing like how do we actually or other thing like how do we actually or other thing like how do we actually do a shift from do a shift from do a shift from inward to outward inward to outward inward to outward right where we're like no let's let's right where we're like no let's let's right where we're like no let's let's get us because we're the carriers of the get us because we're the carriers of the get us because we're the carriers of the message with our product which is the message with our product which is the message with our product which is the gospel and the saving grace two people gospel and the saving grace two people gospel and the saving grace two people instead of trying always to get people instead of trying always to get people instead of trying always to get people to us to us to us yeah that's really good yeah that's really good yeah that's really good um a couple minutes left and i have one um a couple minutes left and i have one um a couple minutes left and i have one particular question we might have some particular question we might have some particular question we might have some follow-ups on this but i i i want to follow-ups on this but i i i want to follow-ups on this but i i i want to know you know one of the things that we know you know one of the things that we know you know one of the things that we note is that in the local church note is that in the local church note is that in the local church a lot of times uh people a lot of times uh people a lot of times uh people when they're trying to develop a when they're trying to develop a when they're trying to develop a communication strategy or social media communication strategy or social media communication strategy or social media strategy they simply look at other strategy they simply look at other strategy they simply look at other churches and see what other churches are churches and see what other churches are churches and see what other churches are doing and they they try to extrapolate

doing and they they try to extrapolate doing and they they try to extrapolate from what they see other people doing from what they see other people doing from what they see other people doing online online online and try to uh either imitate or develop and try to uh either imitate or develop and try to uh either imitate or develop something on their own out of that um something on their own out of that um something on their own out of that um you came to the 12 stone team with quite you came to the 12 stone team with quite you came to the 12 stone team with quite a bit of marketing and communications a bit of marketing and communications a bit of marketing and communications experience i'm curious to know who it is experience i'm curious to know who it is experience i'm curious to know who it is these days that that you're learning these days that that you're learning these days that that you're learning from who do you look to to learn from from who do you look to to learn from from who do you look to to learn from both inside the church outside the both inside the church outside the both inside the church outside the church or maybe what were some of the church or maybe what were some of the church or maybe what were some of the things that as you were learning even in things that as you were learning even in things that as you were learning even in the in the marketplace prior to being in the in the marketplace prior to being in the in the marketplace prior to being in ministry who are some of the people that ministry who are some of the people that ministry who are some of the people that you were looking to and learning from as you were looking to and learning from as you were looking to and learning from as you were developing your skills as a you were developing your skills as a you were developing your skills as a marketer marketer marketer so my all-time favorite is seth godin so my all-time favorite is seth godin so my all-time favorite is seth godin um he's just my favorite i just can't is um he's just my favorite i just can't is um he's just my favorite i just can't is and and and i i learn a lot from him and i i still i i i learn a lot from him and i i still i i i learn a lot from him and i i still i still do um i just love to follow him still do um i just love to follow him still do um i just love to follow him and he's also a little bit more ethereal and he's also a little bit more ethereal and he's also a little bit more ethereal maybe not as hands-on as some would like maybe not as hands-on as some would like maybe not as hands-on as some would like to be but i i like thinking it's um is to be but i i like thinking it's um is to be but i i like thinking it's um is i think it just broadens your horizon um i think it just broadens your horizon um i think it just broadens your horizon um to get into that um i do love simon to get into that um i do love simon to get into that um i do love simon sinek i think he's amazing yeah i love sinek i think he's amazing yeah i love sinek i think he's amazing yeah i love listening to him listening to him listening to him and kind of what i do too is i have a and kind of what i do too is i have a and kind of what i do too is i have a little i call it a marketing council little i call it a marketing council little i call it a marketing council um just a marketing professionals um who um just a marketing professionals um who um just a marketing professionals um who are not in the church world but still in are not in the church world but still in are not in the church world but still in the corporate world um who i meet on a the corporate world um who i meet on a the corporate world um who i meet on a regular basis with um just to keep me regular basis with um just to keep me regular basis with um just to keep me sharp you know and and just you know sharp you know and and just you know sharp you know and and just you know i've i've i've you get all blinders at some point you get all blinders at some point you get all blinders at some point because you know now it's almost three because you know now it's almost three because you know now it's almost three years and years and years and um there's some things but i want to um there's some things but i want to um there's some things but i want to stay cutting edge and and they have to stay cutting edge and and they have to stay cutting edge and and they have to be cutting edge and and so just just to

be cutting edge and and so just just to be cutting edge and and so just just to keep me focused on that that's something keep me focused on that that's something keep me focused on that that's something um i would recommend people doing just um i would recommend people doing just um i would recommend people doing just just find marketing professionals and just find marketing professionals and just find marketing professionals and find find find outside of the church but also some outside of the church but also some outside of the church but also some inside the church you know where it's inside the church you know where it's inside the church you know where it's just like how do you build a little just like how do you build a little just like how do you build a little network of people um maybe churches network of people um maybe churches network of people um maybe churches similar similar similar size or similar who are on a similar size or similar who are on a similar size or similar who are on a similar stage and um and build a little network stage and um and build a little network stage and um and build a little network of those and find help from them of those and find help from them of those and find help from them um to actually grow together because um to actually grow together because um to actually grow together because again we all just have a few puzzle again we all just have a few puzzle again we all just have a few puzzle pieces you know and we all need to put pieces you know and we all need to put pieces you know and we all need to put them together them together them together um so we can get the maximum out of it um so we can get the maximum out of it um so we can get the maximum out of it okay let me let me follow up that okay let me let me follow up that okay let me let me follow up that question then with a seth godinism question then with a seth godinism question then with a seth godinism as you look to the future of 12 stone as you look to the future of 12 stone as you look to the future of 12 stone maybe this next year or in the next maybe this next year or in the next maybe this next year or in the next couple of years do you have a purple cow couple of years do you have a purple cow couple of years do you have a purple cow do you have something on the horizon do you have something on the horizon do you have something on the horizon that you're looking at and saying like that you're looking at and saying like that you're looking at and saying like this is going to be that thing that this is going to be that thing that this is going to be that thing that we're going to do that we're putting a we're going to do that we're putting a we're going to do that we're putting a lot of energy and effort to that's going lot of energy and effort to that's going lot of energy and effort to that's going to be a great opportunity for us to to be a great opportunity for us to to be a great opportunity for us to connect with people who don't yet even connect with people who don't yet even connect with people who don't yet even know that we exist what kind of know that we exist what kind of know that we exist what kind of opportunities are you are you seeing for opportunities are you are you seeing for opportunities are you are you seeing for 12 stone in terms of your own marketing 12 stone in terms of your own marketing 12 stone in terms of your own marketing efforts and communication and social efforts and communication and social efforts and communication and social media or what what whatever you want to media or what what whatever you want to media or what what whatever you want to extrapolate on yeah so i i'm i mentioned extrapolate on yeah so i i'm i mentioned extrapolate on yeah so i i'm i mentioned 12 home and for me this is really 12 home and for me this is really 12 home and for me this is really something i i believe which can work something i i believe which can work something i i believe which can work and and be some a a version of church in and and be some a a version of church in and and be some a a version of church in the future that can really work well the future that can really work well the future that can really work well um it is the idea of um reaching people um it is the idea of um reaching people um it is the idea of um reaching people um through even the digital medium which um through even the digital medium which um through even the digital medium which which we are which we are which we are um but we're not leaving them digitally um but we're not leaving them digitally um but we're not leaving them digitally we're actually connecting them to a

we're actually connecting them to a we're actually connecting them to a leader in their area we're not trying to leader in their area we're not trying to leader in their area we're not trying to get people into a get people into a get people into a um big building or a campus um we're um big building or a campus um we're um big building or a campus um we're actually actually actually in the neighborhoods because we're in the neighborhoods because we're in the neighborhoods because we're focused on making impact in the focused on making impact in the focused on making impact in the neighborhood so we have people let's say neighborhood so we have people let's say neighborhood so we have people let's say in in one of our 12 zone home gatherings in in one of our 12 zone home gatherings in in one of our 12 zone home gatherings it's a cafe in a downtown area and just it's a cafe in a downtown area and just it's a cafe in a downtown area and just sunday mornings people walk by the cafe sunday mornings people walk by the cafe sunday mornings people walk by the cafe and come in to get a coffee but they're and come in to get a coffee but they're and come in to get a coffee but they're not open for business they're open for not open for business they're open for not open for business they're open for church church church and it's like oh great you know like and it's like oh great you know like and it's like oh great you know like here's a free coffee for you actually here's a free coffee for you actually here's a free coffee for you actually and we're just listening to a sermon and and we're just listening to a sermon and and we're just listening to a sermon and or worshiping you know like do you want or worshiping you know like do you want or worshiping you know like do you want to join it's very different um to to to join it's very different um to to to join it's very different um to to like you have to make the effort to like you have to make the effort to like you have to make the effort to actually show up at a physical campus actually show up at a physical campus actually show up at a physical campus which doesn't mean a physical campus which doesn't mean a physical campus which doesn't mean a physical campus isn't right and we're still going to isn't right and we're still going to isn't right and we're still going to invest in those and and invest in those and and invest in those and and um i believe in those but also there's a um i believe in those but also there's a um i believe in those but also there's a different type of person different type of person different type of person who we want to target with a different who we want to target with a different who we want to target with a different persona um who's persona um who's persona um who's maybe not doing that he wasn't even maybe not doing that he wasn't even maybe not doing that he wasn't even looking but now we're in a downtown area looking but now we're in a downtown area looking but now we're in a downtown area in a living room in an apartment complex in a living room in an apartment complex in a living room in an apartment complex and he's like what's going on here you and he's like what's going on here you and he's like what's going on here you know it's like oh we're doing actually know it's like oh we're doing actually know it's like oh we're doing actually church church church um and i think there's a lot um of blue um and i think there's a lot um of blue um and i think there's a lot um of blue water water water out there where we can be like this is out there where we can be like this is out there where we can be like this is it's still lead we have leaders we coach it's still lead we have leaders we coach it's still lead we have leaders we coach them we train them we go there we get them we train them we go there we get them we train them we go there we get reports on how how's it going what's um reports on how how's it going what's um reports on how how's it going what's um what are your issues what are problems what are your issues what are problems what are your issues what are problems how can we help how can we help how can we help um and but there's there's a lot of blue um and but there's there's a lot of blue um and but there's there's a lot of blue water that i see water that i see water that i see um um um when i think into that direction of 12 when i think into that direction of 12 when i think into that direction of 12 stone home having stone home having stone home having church in homes everywhere around the

church in homes everywhere around the church in homes everywhere around the country that are still resourced very country that are still resourced very country that are still resourced very well well well um from the um um from the um um from the um you know our mega church great teaching you know our mega church great teaching you know our mega church great teaching you know great worship we all have that you know great worship we all have that you know great worship we all have that so the actual pastor at a 12-home so the actual pastor at a 12-home so the actual pastor at a 12-home gathering doesn't have to recruit gathering doesn't have to recruit gathering doesn't have to recruit volunteers and you know get his get a volunteers and you know get his get a volunteers and you know get his get a worship team together and think about worship team together and think about worship team together and think about how i'm going to teach and what am i how i'm going to teach and what am i how i'm going to teach and what am i going to say all that's taken care of so going to say all that's taken care of so going to say all that's taken care of so the pastor actually has time to pastor the pastor actually has time to pastor the pastor actually has time to pastor wow wow wow well peter thanks so much uh for taking well peter thanks so much uh for taking well peter thanks so much uh for taking the time to be on the show with us today the time to be on the show with us today the time to be on the show with us today this has been very insightful we one of this has been very insightful we one of this has been very insightful we one of the things i do like to highlight in the things i do like to highlight in the things i do like to highlight in each of our episodes is when a guest each of our episodes is when a guest each of our episodes is when a guest uses a term or language that no one has uses a term or language that no one has uses a term or language that no one has used before and zeitgeist is it for this used before and zeitgeist is it for this used before and zeitgeist is it for this episode in 18 18 months of podcasting you're the in 18 18 months of podcasting you're the first um you're also the first first um you're also the first first um you're also the first german-born guest we've had second from german-born guest we've had second from german-born guest we've had second from 12 stone but the first german board so 12 stone but the first german board so 12 stone but the first german board so we appreciate you taking the time with we appreciate you taking the time with we appreciate you taking the time with us today if our listeners or our viewers us today if our listeners or our viewers us today if our listeners or our viewers had any follow-up questions or would had any follow-up questions or would had any follow-up questions or would like to connect with you in in some way like to connect with you in in some way like to connect with you in in some way what's what's the best way for them to what's what's the best way for them to what's what's the best way for them to do that do that do that um you can just send me an email at um you can just send me an email at um you can just send me an email at peer.jambor twelstone.com or you can peer.jambor twelstone.com or you can peer.jambor twelstone.com or you can just text me at and 404-997-8812 the answer all right and 404-997-8812 the answer all right that's hurt can't get much more personal that's hurt can't get much more personal that's hurt can't get much more personal than that we'll make sure that that's uh than that we'll make sure that that's uh than that we'll make sure that that's uh linked in the show notes and uh once linked in the show notes and uh once linked in the show notes and uh once again pierre thanks so much for hanging again pierre thanks so much for hanging again pierre thanks so much for hanging out with us today absolutely my pleasure out with us today absolutely my pleasure out with us today absolutely my pleasure [Music]