Creating Goals With a Robust Digital Strategy | Kirt Manuel

well welcome to the church growth well welcome to the church growth interviews podcast from interviews podcast from interviews podcast from missional marketing i'm bart blair and missional marketing i'm bart blair and missional marketing i'm bart blair and i'm joined as always with my good friend i'm joined as always with my good friend i'm joined as always with my good friend and ministry partner jason hamrock jason and ministry partner jason hamrock jason and ministry partner jason hamrock jason well welcome to the show today hey glad well welcome to the show today hey glad well welcome to the show today hey glad to be here bart to be here bart to be here bart and uh it's been a great season i'm and uh it's been a great season i'm and uh it's been a great season i'm really excited uh really excited uh really excited uh we're coming into the summer months and we're coming into the summer months and we're coming into the summer months and it's been fun for us because we've been it's been fun for us because we've been it's been fun for us because we've been spending spending spending a lot of time working on missional a lot of time working on missional a lot of time working on missional marketing because you know how sometimes marketing because you know how sometimes marketing because you know how sometimes you can work you can work you can work in the business and you're so tight in in the business and you're so tight in in the business and you're so tight in that you that you that you you got to zoom out to kind of work on you got to zoom out to kind of work on you got to zoom out to kind of work on the business you know what i'm talking the business you know what i'm talking the business you know what i'm talking about church about church about church you know what i'm talking about well you know what i'm talking about well you know what i'm talking about well this season we've been spending the this season we've been spending the this season we've been spending the summer of working summer of working summer of working on michigan marketing so super exciting on michigan marketing so super exciting on michigan marketing so super exciting uh uh uh what we're what we're coming up with the what we're what we're coming up with the what we're what we're coming up with the changes we're making changes we're making changes we're making moving staff around and just working moving staff around and just working moving staff around and just working on the businesses it's just really on the businesses it's just really on the businesses it's just really rewarding right now rewarding right now rewarding right now yeah you know i've been uh working with yeah you know i've been uh working with yeah you know i've been uh working with missional marketing on this team for missional marketing on this team for missional marketing on this team for almost three years almost three years almost three years and it's just been really cool to see and it's just been really cool to see and it's just been really cool to see what god what god what god has done in and through our team over has done in and through our team over has done in and through our team over the course of the last few years um the course of the last few years um the course of the last few years um we're hiring we're adding new team we're hiring we're adding new team we're hiring we're adding new team members pretty regularly now members pretty regularly now members pretty regularly now um and i feel like a wiry old veteran um and i feel like a wiry old veteran um and i feel like a wiry old veteran you know it's it's funny because you know it's it's funny because you know it's it's funny because three three years ago like i was trying three three years ago like i was trying three three years ago like i was trying to really get my head around the google to really get my head around the google to really get my head around the google ad grant ad grant ad grant and now i'm the one teaching and and now i'm the one teaching and and now i'm the one teaching and training training training new team members on what the google ad new team members on what the google ad new team members on what the google ad grant is and how it works and and all grant is and how it works and and all grant is and how it works and and all the things that we do to serve and the things that we do to serve and the things that we do to serve and support churches so support churches so support churches so it's a lot of fun it's a great time to it's a lot of fun it's a great time to it's a lot of fun it's a great time to be a part of mission marketing

be a part of mission marketing be a part of mission marketing um it's really cool you know this um it's really cool you know this um it's really cool you know this podcast this podcast has turned out to podcast this podcast has turned out to podcast this podcast has turned out to be a blast when we started this a little be a blast when we started this a little be a blast when we started this a little over a year ago over a year ago over a year ago i wasn't really quite sure how it was i wasn't really quite sure how it was i wasn't really quite sure how it was going to shape up and uh going to shape up and uh going to shape up and uh now we've just had the opportunity to now we've just had the opportunity to now we've just had the opportunity to have some really class have some really class have some really class a guests uh some are people that uh a guests uh some are people that uh a guests uh some are people that uh we're just kind of like knocking on we're just kind of like knocking on we're just kind of like knocking on doors on linkedin doors on linkedin doors on linkedin and other places and going hey we have a and other places and going hey we have a and other places and going hey we have a podcast would you be on it and podcast would you be on it and podcast would you be on it and people are saying yes and then some of people are saying yes and then some of people are saying yes and then some of the people that we have the people that we have the people that we have on the show here are actually uh church on the show here are actually uh church on the show here are actually uh church leaders leaders leaders that we work with and that is the case that we work with and that is the case that we work with and that is the case of the church leader that we're going to of the church leader that we're going to of the church leader that we're going to be interviewing today be interviewing today be interviewing today why don't you introduce kurt yes it is why don't you introduce kurt yes it is why don't you introduce kurt yes it is in fact uh i would say there's a handful in fact uh i would say there's a handful in fact uh i would say there's a handful of our churches that of our churches that of our churches that we get to trial and air things kind of we get to trial and air things kind of we get to trial and air things kind of our r d department we get to work with a our r d department we get to work with a our r d department we get to work with a handful of churches that said handful of churches that said handful of churches that said yes we will be your guinea pig yes we will be your guinea pig yes we will be your guinea pig northwoods northwoods northwoods church in peoria illinois is one of church in peoria illinois is one of church in peoria illinois is one of those churches fantastic those churches fantastic those churches fantastic church led by pastor cal and the kirk's church led by pastor cal and the kirk's church led by pastor cal and the kirk's on their team and kurt's been on their team and kurt's been on their team and kurt's been uh just a friend for a long time uh just a friend for a long time uh just a friend for a long time and a ministry partner for years and and a ministry partner for years and and a ministry partner for years and years and years years and years years and years and uh northwoods the cool thing about and uh northwoods the cool thing about and uh northwoods the cool thing about northwoods is they're just not afraid to northwoods is they're just not afraid to northwoods is they're just not afraid to try things they've just got that posture try things they've just got that posture try things they've just got that posture of going of going of going okay god whatever you have us do we'll okay god whatever you have us do we'll okay god whatever you have us do we'll we'll do it we'll do it we'll do it willingly and so they've done some willingly and so they've done some willingly and so they've done some really cool things digitally really cool things digitally really cool things digitally well kurt is their communications pastor well kurt is their communications pastor well kurt is their communications pastor he's been with the church for a long he's been with the church for a long he's been with the church for a long long time he's going to long time he's going to long time he's going to share his story uh but i'm really share his story uh but i'm really share his story uh but i'm really excited about excited about excited about you hearing from kirk because again this you hearing from kirk because again this you hearing from kirk because again this guy is they're very innovative

guy is they're very innovative guy is they're very innovative they've got a team of of people that are they've got a team of of people that are they've got a team of of people that are passionate about reaching the lost passionate about reaching the lost passionate about reaching the lost and using whatever digital tool uh and using whatever digital tool uh and using whatever digital tool uh is out there to do just that and we get is out there to do just that and we get is out there to do just that and we get to partner with them so to partner with them so to partner with them so it's a fun conversation today yeah it's a fun conversation today yeah it's a fun conversation today yeah northwoods is a is a church that we talk northwoods is a is a church that we talk northwoods is a is a church that we talk a a a lot about behind the scenes uh in our lot about behind the scenes uh in our lot about behind the scenes uh in our own team meetings because own team meetings because own team meetings because as you said they kind of serve as a as you said they kind of serve as a as you said they kind of serve as a little bit of our guinea pigs our r d little bit of our guinea pigs our r d little bit of our guinea pigs our r d department and they're willing to try department and they're willing to try department and they're willing to try new things which has been pretty cool new things which has been pretty cool new things which has been pretty cool and and and and kurt has led the charge uh in a lot and kurt has led the charge uh in a lot and kurt has led the charge uh in a lot of that of that of that frontline digital online stuff uh from frontline digital online stuff uh from frontline digital online stuff uh from northwoods over the years it's pretty northwoods over the years it's pretty northwoods over the years it's pretty neat northwoods is uh neat northwoods is uh neat northwoods is uh i think three campuses now and they're i i think three campuses now and they're i i think three campuses now and they're i think think think yeah i think some people yeah they say yeah i think some people yeah they say yeah i think some people yeah they say about 3 000 people about 3 000 people about 3 000 people in person but about 6 000 people online in person but about 6 000 people online in person but about 6 000 people online each week which each week which each week which those numbers are are pretty substantial those numbers are are pretty substantial those numbers are are pretty substantial and pretty exciting and and pretty exciting and and pretty exciting and yeah well you our listeners our guests yeah well you our listeners our guests yeah well you our listeners our guests are friends are friends are friends here we hope that you enjoy and get a here we hope that you enjoy and get a here we hope that you enjoy and get a lot of great stuff lot of great stuff lot of great stuff out of this interview with kurt manuel out of this interview with kurt manuel out of this interview with kurt manuel well hey kurt thanks so much for joining well hey kurt thanks so much for joining well hey kurt thanks so much for joining jason and me today on the missional jason and me today on the missional jason and me today on the missional marketing church growth interviews marketing church growth interviews marketing church growth interviews podcast podcast podcast really excited to get to know you i we really excited to get to know you i we really excited to get to know you i we were just talking offline just a minute were just talking offline just a minute were just talking offline just a minute ago ago ago i don't really know you much jason knows i don't really know you much jason knows i don't really know you much jason knows you pretty well and uh you pretty well and uh you pretty well and uh i would venture that there are quite a i would venture that there are quite a i would venture that there are quite a few people listening to our podcast or few people listening to our podcast or few people listening to our podcast or watching online who watching online who watching online who probably don't know who you are today probably don't know who you are today probably don't know who you are today but after we're done we're all going to but after we're done we're all going to but after we're done we're all going to know you better thanks for joining us know you better thanks for joining us know you better thanks for joining us glad to be here thanks for asking glad to be here thanks for asking glad to be here thanks for asking awesome well um awesome well um awesome well um why don't you start kurt by just sharing why don't you start kurt by just sharing why don't you start kurt by just sharing a little bit about your ministry history

a little bit about your ministry history a little bit about your ministry history how you got into history how you got into history how you got into history how you got into ministry uh you're a how you got into ministry uh you're a how you got into ministry uh you're a church called northwoods church which is church called northwoods church which is church called northwoods church which is a fantastic church a fantastic church a fantastic church um go ahead and just kind of give us a um go ahead and just kind of give us a um go ahead and just kind of give us a little bit of background on on who you little bit of background on on who you little bit of background on on who you are how you ended up where you are today are how you ended up where you are today are how you ended up where you are today sure i'll be glad to well so personally sure i'll be glad to well so personally sure i'll be glad to well so personally right you know i'm a central illinois right you know i'm a central illinois right you know i'm a central illinois native northwest community church is native northwest community church is native northwest community church is here here here uh headquartered in peoria illinois uh headquartered in peoria illinois uh headquartered in peoria illinois we have campuses around all of central we have campuses around all of central we have campuses around all of central illinois we'll talk a little bit more illinois we'll talk a little bit more illinois we'll talk a little bit more about that in a minute but so i grew up about that in a minute but so i grew up about that in a minute but so i grew up here here here went away to college came back and uh went away to college came back and uh went away to college came back and uh started working in the marketplace you started working in the marketplace you started working in the marketplace you know got involved in uh know got involved in uh know got involved in uh newspapers that was my first area out of newspapers that was my first area out of newspapers that was my first area out of college and then college and then college and then into commercial printing and design and into commercial printing and design and into commercial printing and design and marketing support for businesses and i marketing support for businesses and i marketing support for businesses and i was pretty was pretty was pretty um pretty far from jesus in those days um pretty far from jesus in those days um pretty far from jesus in those days you know and had grown up in the church you know and had grown up in the church you know and had grown up in the church but like a lot of people drifted very but like a lot of people drifted very but like a lot of people drifted very far away far away far away and and this new church was starting up and and this new church was starting up and and this new church was starting up in peoria called northwoods community in peoria called northwoods community in peoria called northwoods community church church church my aunt and uncle were super excited my aunt and uncle were super excited my aunt and uncle were super excited about it they were part of it and they about it they were part of it and they about it they were part of it and they invited me to come along invited me to come along invited me to come along um and i said no and they invited me to um and i said no and they invited me to um and i said no and they invited me to come along come along come along and i said no and then they invited me and i said no and then they invited me and i said no and then they invited me to come along to come along to come along and to meet this gal that that's been and to meet this gal that that's been and to meet this gal that that's been coming with them coming with them coming with them uh to the church who uh i said well okay uh to the church who uh i said well okay uh to the church who uh i said well okay i'll come along i'll come along i'll come along right so i went to church to hang out right so i went to church to hang out right so i went to church to hang out with rachel who with rachel who with rachel who is now my wife of almost 26 years is now my wife of almost 26 years is now my wife of almost 26 years wow so yeah so i really um wow so yeah so i really um wow so yeah so i really um was a product of fruit if you will of

was a product of fruit if you will of was a product of fruit if you will of the ministry here of the church you know the ministry here of the church you know the ministry here of the church you know northwood started in northwood started in northwood started in 1990 um really modeled after the sort of 1990 um really modeled after the sort of 1990 um really modeled after the sort of secret targeted movement you know secret targeted movement you know secret targeted movement you know started by willow creek started by willow creek started by willow creek and did a lot of things you know in in and did a lot of things you know in in and did a lot of things you know in in their shadow their shadow their shadow and really learning from them in in and really learning from them in in and really learning from them in in style style style and how you know method and all of that and how you know method and all of that and how you know method and all of that kind of stuff and so i i was kind of stuff and so i i was kind of stuff and so i i was right in the bullseye of that ministry right in the bullseye of that ministry right in the bullseye of that ministry uh uh uh and feel like you know i was sort of and feel like you know i was sort of and feel like you know i was sort of reconnected to christ in reconnected to christ in reconnected to christ in my life you know redeemed through that my life you know redeemed through that my life you know redeemed through that relationship relationship relationship so really um grateful you know what god so really um grateful you know what god so really um grateful you know what god did did did in those years of my life now northwoods in those years of my life now northwoods in those years of my life now northwoods has grown in transition has grown in transition has grown in transition over the years from you know the secret over the years from you know the secret over the years from you know the secret target ministry target ministry target ministry uh that we started asking but really to uh that we started asking but really to uh that we started asking but really to what we call now you know a holy word what we call now you know a holy word what we call now you know a holy word and spirit church and spirit church and spirit church uh really you know a lot more presence uh really you know a lot more presence uh really you know a lot more presence driven in our services driven in our services driven in our services and um embracing the work of the holy and um embracing the work of the holy and um embracing the work of the holy spirit spirit spirit uh you know i don't want to offend uh you know i don't want to offend uh you know i don't want to offend anyone in the church world right you anyone in the church world right you anyone in the church world right you know but we have know but we have know but we have uh you know evangelical and mainline uh you know evangelical and mainline uh you know evangelical and mainline churches you know maybe over here churches you know maybe over here churches you know maybe over here very strong charismatic churches and very strong charismatic churches and very strong charismatic churches and swinging this way and north we're trying swinging this way and north we're trying swinging this way and north we're trying to to to come down right down in between there come down right down in between there come down right down in between there being you know really solidly grounded being you know really solidly grounded being you know really solidly grounded in the word but also very open to the in the word but also very open to the in the word but also very open to the living work of the holy spirit now living work of the holy spirit now living work of the holy spirit now let me let me get you to back up just a let me let me get you to back up just a let me let me get you to back up just a little bit um so it was what 26 little bit um so it was what 26 little bit um so it was what 26 1990 you said was when the was when the 1990 you said was when the was when the 1990 you said was when the was when the church planted church planted church planted um what what uh identify again the

um what what uh identify again the um what what uh identify again the actual city that the first campus was actual city that the first campus was actual city that the first campus was planted in planted in planted in and and talk a little bit too about uh and and talk a little bit too about uh and and talk a little bit too about uh what that community was like what that community was like what that community was like when in 1990 you were you obviously when in 1990 you were you obviously when in 1990 you were you obviously lived there what was what was that lived there what was what was that lived there what was what was that community like community like community like that's peoria illinois it's pretty much that's peoria illinois it's pretty much that's peoria illinois it's pretty much right smack in the middle of the state right smack in the middle of the state right smack in the middle of the state and uh northwoods campus freedom and uh northwoods campus freedom and uh northwoods campus freedom primary campus still our broadcast primary campus still our broadcast primary campus still our broadcast campus campus campus is here in peoria um peoria is a town of is here in peoria um peoria is a town of is here in peoria um peoria is a town of you know metro area peoria is about you know metro area peoria is about you know metro area peoria is about roughly 300 000 roughly 300 000 roughly 300 000 so it's medium sized you might say so it's medium sized you might say so it's medium sized you might say amanda was a manufacturing community amanda was a manufacturing community amanda was a manufacturing community caterpillar caterpillar caterpillar tractor is headquartered here a lot of tractor is headquartered here a lot of tractor is headquartered here a lot of medical industries so just kind of well medical industries so just kind of well medical industries so just kind of well pure is a real prototypical community pure is a real prototypical community pure is a real prototypical community you know for many many years it was a you know for many many years it was a you know for many many years it was a marketing research marketing research marketing research place right and you've heard the phrase place right and you've heard the phrase place right and you've heard the phrase if it plays in peoria if it plays in peoria if it plays in peoria that idea that the mentality of the that idea that the mentality of the that idea that the mentality of the sentiments of the people here sentiments of the people here sentiments of the people here really are reflective of a sort of mean really are reflective of a sort of mean really are reflective of a sort of mean or average of people you know all around or average of people you know all around or average of people you know all around the country the country the country and and but you know like a lot of and and but you know like a lot of and and but you know like a lot of places in the country a spiritually places in the country a spiritually places in the country a spiritually hungry place you know by hungry place you know by hungry place you know by 1990 you know there's churches 1990 you know there's churches 1990 you know there's churches everywhere but there's still a whole lot everywhere but there's still a whole lot everywhere but there's still a whole lot of people who of people who of people who uh you know they're they're looking for uh you know they're they're looking for uh you know they're they're looking for something more in their lives because something more in their lives because something more in their lives because they're not finding it you know and so they're not finding it you know and so they're not finding it you know and so these secret targeted ministries like these secret targeted ministries like these secret targeted ministries like northwoods really stepped into that gap northwoods really stepped into that gap northwoods really stepped into that gap to provide a place where to provide a place where to provide a place where you know that that that searching could you know that that that searching could you know that that that searching could be done be done be done in a way that didn't have a lot of the in a way that didn't have a lot of the in a way that didn't have a lot of the baggage that the church

baggage that the church baggage that the church had for some people at that time there had for some people at that time there had for some people at that time there was a campaign a phone campaign was a campaign a phone campaign was a campaign a phone campaign actually that was part of the church actually that was part of the church actually that was part of the church planting process and they made planting process and they made planting process and they made tens of thousands of phone calls to tens of thousands of phone calls to tens of thousands of phone calls to people simply asking people simply asking people simply asking do you have a church do you have a home do you have a church do you have a home do you have a church do you have a home church and if so that's wonderful can we church and if so that's wonderful can we church and if so that's wonderful can we pray pray pray for you thank you goodbye if you do not for you thank you goodbye if you do not for you thank you goodbye if you do not you know would you be interested in a you know would you be interested in a you know would you be interested in a church like this church like this church like this and if you if you would be hey we're and if you if you would be hey we're and if you if you would be hey we're going to be starting up here's our going to be starting up here's our going to be starting up here's our opening weekend we'd love for you to opening weekend we'd love for you to opening weekend we'd love for you to come come come and can we pray for you goodbye uh and and can we pray for you goodbye uh and and can we pray for you goodbye uh and those you know 30 plus thousand phone those you know 30 plus thousand phone those you know 30 plus thousand phone calls resulted in opening services of calls resulted in opening services of calls resulted in opening services of just over 300 people just over 300 people just over 300 people and in 1990 march of 1990 the church has and in 1990 march of 1990 the church has and in 1990 march of 1990 the church has you know continued to you know continued to you know continued to climb uh you know since then climb uh you know since then climb uh you know since then uh it's been a really exciting ride you uh it's been a really exciting ride you uh it's been a really exciting ride you know know know my wife and i started together here at my wife and i started together here at my wife and i started together here at the church as i shared a little bit ago the church as i shared a little bit ago the church as i shared a little bit ago in 1994 so we were not here at the very in 1994 so we were not here at the very in 1994 so we were not here at the very beginning beginning beginning um but pretty early on so you found um but pretty early on so you found um but pretty early on so you found yourself volunteering yourself volunteering yourself volunteering what 96 97 and then that turned into a what 96 97 and then that turned into a what 96 97 and then that turned into a staff role staff role staff role in the year 2000 how how did that happen in the year 2000 how how did that happen in the year 2000 how how did that happen uh well i uh well i uh well i you know i asked for it right i was you know i asked for it right i was you know i asked for it right i was really really enjoying really really enjoying really really enjoying uh serving using the gifts that god had uh serving using the gifts that god had uh serving using the gifts that god had given me i given me i given me i at that time was working like i said in at that time was working like i said in at that time was working like i said in newspapers and then moved into newspapers and then moved into newspapers and then moved into commercial printing and commercial printing and commercial printing and graphic support for that and i just graphic support for that and i just graphic support for that and i just approached you know one of the pastors approached you know one of the pastors approached you know one of the pastors here who's still on staff with these here who's still on staff with these here who's still on staff with these offices right behind this wall that's offices right behind this wall that's offices right behind this wall that's behind your head right now behind your head right now behind your head right now and i just said hey you know those

and i just said hey you know those and i just said hey you know those postcards that you're sending out to postcards that you're sending out to postcards that you're sending out to people and stuff like that people and stuff like that people and stuff like that i think i can help with that uh and so i think i can help with that uh and so i think i can help with that uh and so for the next you know what three to four for the next you know what three to four for the next you know what three to four years years years i produced most of the publications that i produced most of the publications that i produced most of the publications that the church created the church created the church created uh that were really primarily used for uh that were really primarily used for uh that were really primarily used for outreach outreach outreach uh and we just did more and more of that uh and we just did more and more of that uh and we just did more and more of that stuff and got to a point where i stuff and got to a point where i stuff and got to a point where i approached approached approached the executive pastor and said hey steve the executive pastor and said hey steve the executive pastor and said hey steve you know you might as well pay me for you know you might as well pay me for you know you might as well pay me for this and uh this and uh this and uh you know i mean joking joke aside right you know i mean joking joke aside right you know i mean joking joke aside right you know they had the you know they had the you know they had the leadership of the church at that point leadership of the church at that point leadership of the church at that point really had reached the decision that really had reached the decision that really had reached the decision that um it's time for us to create a role um it's time for us to create a role um it's time for us to create a role like this like this like this on our staff team and they invited me on our staff team and they invited me on our staff team and they invited me you know you know you know into that which i was thrilled to take into that which i was thrilled to take into that which i was thrilled to take and i've been in here ever since so and i've been in here ever since so and i've been in here ever since so you've been on staff for over 20 years you've been on staff for over 20 years you've been on staff for over 20 years yeah since 2000 yeah so tell us a little yeah since 2000 yeah so tell us a little yeah since 2000 yeah so tell us a little bit about what your role looks like bit about what your role looks like bit about what your role looks like today today today very much different than what it looked very much different than what it looked very much different than what it looked like in 2000 you know like in 2000 you know like in 2000 you know um in the early part of my um in the early part of my um in the early part of my tenure here you know my primary tenure here you know my primary tenure here you know my primary responsibility was you know graphic responsibility was you know graphic responsibility was you know graphic design i was the church design i was the church design i was the church marketing guy really the church graphics marketing guy really the church graphics marketing guy really the church graphics guy yeah and guy yeah and guy yeah and we would venture a little bit into um we would venture a little bit into um we would venture a little bit into um advertising advertising advertising but you know the whole digital realm but you know the whole digital realm but you know the whole digital realm really didn't exist really didn't exist really didn't exist you know when i started here the church you know when i started here the church you know when i started here the church had installed its first had installed its first had installed its first shared 56k modem for the entire shop shared 56k modem for the entire shop shared 56k modem for the entire shop and there was a lot of debate on whether and there was a lot of debate on whether and there was a lot of debate on whether to allow outside to allow outside to allow outside email into the building um and we had a

email into the building um and we had a email into the building um and we had a web page web page web page not a website not a just it was a not a website not a just it was a not a website not a just it was a different world different world different world right and so it was from that place right and so it was from that place right and so it was from that place uh you know just everything it has uh you know just everything it has uh you know just everything it has i could just go through the growth of i could just go through the growth of i could just go through the growth of digital history and say the northwoods digital history and say the northwoods digital history and say the northwoods has has has stepped alongside all of those changes stepped alongside all of those changes stepped alongside all of those changes you know the size of the team has grown you know the size of the team has grown you know the size of the team has grown with those needs as we've opened new with those needs as we've opened new with those needs as we've opened new multi-site campuses multi-site campuses multi-site campuses um you know we serve all of those in the um you know we serve all of those in the um you know we serve all of those in the central services kind of capacity central services kind of capacity central services kind of capacity so we've gone from mostly print focused so we've gone from mostly print focused so we've gone from mostly print focused to now we do hardly any print and it's to now we do hardly any print and it's to now we do hardly any print and it's almost all almost all almost all digital content and digital platforms digital content and digital platforms digital content and digital platforms yeah yeah and and you know that's that's yeah yeah and and you know that's that's yeah yeah and and you know that's that's not a shock to anybody probably not a shock to anybody probably not a shock to anybody probably listening listening listening you know because that's that's just the you know because that's that's just the you know because that's that's just the nature of where things go nature of where things go nature of where things go so yeah um yeah so so yeah um yeah so so yeah um yeah so go ahead go ahead so so right now okay go ahead go ahead so so right now okay go ahead go ahead so so right now okay you know you know you know really all the things that fall under really all the things that fall under really all the things that fall under the umbrella of my team the umbrella of my team the umbrella of my team print digital social online mobile print digital social online mobile print digital social online mobile signage you know internal communications signage you know internal communications signage you know internal communications external communications external communications external communications outreach advertising all of that stuff outreach advertising all of that stuff outreach advertising all of that stuff is part of this one big team is part of this one big team is part of this one big team that i oversee almost all of that and that i oversee almost all of that and that i oversee almost all of that and then jason lee that i mentioned then jason lee that i mentioned then jason lee that i mentioned earlier is a peer of my organization earlier is a peer of my organization earlier is a peer of my organization who also contributes very strongly into who also contributes very strongly into who also contributes very strongly into leadership of some of our real leadership of some of our real leadership of some of our real most innovative things and then i have most innovative things and then i have most innovative things and then i have other direct reports a team other direct reports a team other direct reports a team of uh i have three other direct reports

of uh i have three other direct reports of uh i have three other direct reports that that that really help make all that happen um really help make all that happen um really help make all that happen um and then we have uh really close you and then we have uh really close you and then we have uh really close you know collaborative relationships with know collaborative relationships with know collaborative relationships with other teams you know our media and video other teams you know our media and video other teams you know our media and video teams and our creative art teams teams and our creative art teams teams and our creative art teams and guest services teams and it's and guest services teams and it's and guest services teams and it's it's a pretty exciting environment to be it's a pretty exciting environment to be it's a pretty exciting environment to be in because it's in because it's in because it's we are very collaborative in a lot of we are very collaborative in a lot of we are very collaborative in a lot of our responsibilities kind of cross over our responsibilities kind of cross over our responsibilities kind of cross over into each other's into each other's into each other's fields you know and we try very hard to fields you know and we try very hard to fields you know and we try very hard to sharpen one another and sharpen one another and sharpen one another and pull each other sometimes dragging pull each other sometimes dragging pull each other sometimes dragging kicking and screaming on to the next kicking and screaming on to the next kicking and screaming on to the next level level level we get there so kurt what we get there so kurt what we get there so kurt what has changed for you most substantially has changed for you most substantially has changed for you most substantially over the course of the last year over the course of the last year over the course of the last year in a few months i mean obviously it's in a few months i mean obviously it's in a few months i mean obviously it's it's difficult for us to it's difficult for us to it's difficult for us to kind of look at where church has been kind of look at where church has been kind of look at where church has been for the last you know obviously 20 years for the last you know obviously 20 years for the last you know obviously 20 years you've seen a lot of transition and i'm you've seen a lot of transition and i'm you've seen a lot of transition and i'm sure that sure that sure that the last year to a year and a half has the last year to a year and a half has the last year to a year and a half has um um um you know covet and and and and you know covet and and and and you know covet and and and and everything that we've been through in everything that we've been through in everything that we've been through in the last the last the last 15 months or so has probably accelerated 15 months or so has probably accelerated 15 months or so has probably accelerated a lot of other things in the context of a lot of other things in the context of a lot of other things in the context of the church in your the church in your the church in your digital space and digital ministry what digital space and digital ministry what digital space and digital ministry what are some of the key things that you guys are some of the key things that you guys are some of the key things that you guys at northwoods have done at northwoods have done at northwoods have done to adapt to um current situations uh to adapt to um current situations uh to adapt to um current situations uh what kind of things did you change what kind of things did you change what kind of things did you change during during during uh 2020 that you think you're going to uh 2020 that you think you're going to uh 2020 that you think you're going to keep doing what kind of things did you keep doing what kind of things did you keep doing what kind of things did you what lessons did you learn what kind of what lessons did you learn what kind of what lessons did you learn what kind of things did you things did you things did you start that you wish you hadn't started start that you wish you hadn't started start that you wish you hadn't started and you wish you could go back and undo and you wish you could go back and undo and you wish you could go back and undo just share a little bit of the the just share a little bit of the the just share a little bit of the the highlights and the low lights in the highlights and the low lights in the highlights and the low lights in the last year in a bit

last year in a bit last year in a bit well i think that there there's not a well i think that there there's not a well i think that there there's not a church out there who didn't have at church out there who didn't have at church out there who didn't have at least one conversation saying okay so least one conversation saying okay so least one conversation saying okay so when are things gonna get back to normal when are things gonna get back to normal when are things gonna get back to normal right right right and you know and then of course the and you know and then of course the and you know and then of course the answer to that has really almost become answer to that has really almost become answer to that has really almost become a cliche which is you know a cliche which is you know a cliche which is you know this is the new normal we're not going this is the new normal we're not going this is the new normal we're not going back to those things and back to those things and back to those things and yeah and so you know i would be uh yeah and so you know i would be uh yeah and so you know i would be uh repeating what a lot of other people repeating what a lot of other people repeating what a lot of other people have already said to you know to have already said to you know to have already said to you know to emphasize that point emphasize that point emphasize that point but it is true right you know a lot of but it is true right you know a lot of but it is true right you know a lot of things have changed for sure things have changed for sure things have changed for sure northwoods i think we were blessed to be northwoods i think we were blessed to be northwoods i think we were blessed to be pretty well prepared pretty well prepared pretty well prepared when kovit really came and shut us down when kovit really came and shut us down when kovit really came and shut us down because we were already doing a pretty because we were already doing a pretty because we were already doing a pretty robust online ministry robust online ministry robust online ministry and so we didn't have to invent anything and so we didn't have to invent anything and so we didn't have to invent anything new that we weren't previously doing as new that we weren't previously doing as new that we weren't previously doing as a church a church a church in order to have the technology and the in order to have the technology and the in order to have the technology and the platforms in place platforms in place platforms in place to do uh you know more um to do uh you know more um to do uh you know more um highly focused you know digital highly focused you know digital highly focused you know digital gatherings uh gatherings uh gatherings uh but we had to begin to think differently but we had to begin to think differently but we had to begin to think differently for sure for sure for sure uh it's you know not embarrassed to say uh it's you know not embarrassed to say uh it's you know not embarrassed to say it and it's no secret right that it and it's no secret right that it and it's no secret right that you know my senior years they did not you know my senior years they did not you know my senior years they did not grow up grow up grow up um thinking about the internet first you um thinking about the internet first you um thinking about the internet first you know or thinking about digital know or thinking about digital know or thinking about digital experiences first they experiences first they experiences first they they preach to a room that's what they preach to a room that's what they preach to a room that's what they've always done they've always done they've always done and it's what they know how to do very and it's what they know how to do very and it's what they know how to do very very well and so my team has had to very well and so my team has had to very well and so my team has had to really come alongside them to say okay really come alongside them to say okay really come alongside them to say okay so how's this going to play though on a so how's this going to play though on a so how's this going to play though on a much smaller screen much smaller screen much smaller screen how's this going to feel when i'm how's this going to feel when i'm how's this going to feel when i'm consuming this perhaps on my own or with consuming this perhaps on my own or with consuming this perhaps on my own or with just just just hand people or when i'm participating or

hand people or when i'm participating or hand people or when i'm participating or engaging in this engaging in this engaging in this um you know it's different i can't feel um you know it's different i can't feel um you know it's different i can't feel the thumb of the music the thumb of the music the thumb of the music during worship you know and i can't during worship you know and i can't during worship you know and i can't sense the the sense the the sense the the buzz in the crowd during whatever is buzz in the crowd during whatever is buzz in the crowd during whatever is going on and going on and going on and clearly you need a better sound system clearly you need a better sound system clearly you need a better sound system at home well you're not feeling the at home well you're not feeling the at home well you're not feeling the thumb thumb thumb come on that is so true i should be part come on that is so true i should be part come on that is so true i should be part of of of you know everyone's membership kit in you know everyone's membership kit in you know everyone's membership kit in the church the church the church because my son is a block away in his because my son is a block away in his because my son is a block away in his car and i can feel the thumb so clearly car and i can feel the thumb so clearly car and i can feel the thumb so clearly you're not doing something right that's you're not doing something right that's you're not doing something right that's true i mean we're always missing out on true i mean we're always missing out on true i mean we're always missing out on some opportunity some opportunity some opportunity so you put that there's that that mind so you put that there's that that mind so you put that there's that that mind shift of okay now shift of okay now shift of okay now as we plan sermon series as we plan what as we plan sermon series as we plan what as we plan sermon series as we plan what what service components are going to what service components are going to what service components are going to look like look like look like we have to really stop and think okay we have to really stop and think okay we have to really stop and think okay this is playing to a room this is playing to a room this is playing to a room and to 10 000 other rooms and to 10 000 other rooms and to 10 000 other rooms right and those rooms are much smaller right and those rooms are much smaller right and those rooms are much smaller and they have a different audience and they have a different audience and they have a different audience component and it would be completely a component and it would be completely a component and it would be completely a lie lie lie if i said we're masters of that and that if i said we're masters of that and that if i said we're masters of that and that we always do it well we always do it well we always do it well um you know i it would not be right for um you know i it would not be right for um you know i it would not be right for me to say that that's the first thing me to say that that's the first thing me to say that that's the first thing that senior leadership that senior leadership that senior leadership thinks of um you know or that our thinks of um you know or that our thinks of um you know or that our service plan thinks of service plan thinks of service plan thinks of however we are you know slowly step by however we are you know slowly step by however we are you know slowly step by step step step moving to be more aware of that more moving to be more aware of that more moving to be more aware of that more intentional with it intentional with it intentional with it sometimes we hit a grand slam and other sometimes we hit a grand slam and other sometimes we hit a grand slam and other times we forget that we're even at times we forget that we're even at times we forget that we're even at right that's probably i think the the right that's probably i think the the right that's probably i think the the just sort of the biggest just sort of the biggest just sort of the biggest mind shift that's happened around here mind shift that's happened around here mind shift that's happened around here you know i think that what's happened in

you know i think that what's happened in you know i think that what's happened in the last 15 months is the last 15 months is the last 15 months is is to the church right of the same level is to the church right of the same level is to the church right of the same level of transition of transition of transition for sure that the secret movement was for sure that the secret movement was for sure that the secret movement was you know you know you know 20 or 30 years ago and i've heard some 20 or 30 years ago and i've heard some 20 or 30 years ago and i've heard some people people people say you know well this is really the new say you know well this is really the new say you know well this is really the new gutenberg like well gutenberg like well gutenberg like well you know i don't know we'll see right you know i don't know we'll see right you know i don't know we'll see right because uh because uh because uh it's certainly you know this move to the it's certainly you know this move to the it's certainly you know this move to the digital realms digital realms digital realms for ministry uh certainly has opened for ministry uh certainly has opened for ministry uh certainly has opened doors that never existed before doors that never existed before doors that never existed before and it was allowing people to engage and it was allowing people to engage and it was allowing people to engage with with with the gospel in ways that have never been the gospel in ways that have never been the gospel in ways that have never been possible possible possible before yeah we're just beginning to get before yeah we're just beginning to get before yeah we're just beginning to get our heads around what that means our heads around what that means our heads around what that means yeah you guys are a really creative yeah you guys are a really creative yeah you guys are a really creative bunch and um bunch and um bunch and um for our listeners we get to work closely for our listeners we get to work closely for our listeners we get to work closely with with northwoods and their team with with northwoods and their team with with northwoods and their team and uh we they're part of i guess you and uh we they're part of i guess you and uh we they're part of i guess you could see our could see our could see our r and d department and you know so the r and d department and you know so the r and d department and you know so the things that you're things that you're things that you're talking about are so spot on the way talking about are so spot on the way talking about are so spot on the way that you had to do online church that you had to do online church that you had to do online church but you guys go you're not afraid to and but you guys go you're not afraid to and but you guys go you're not afraid to and you go way deeper than that you go way deeper than that you go way deeper than that and that you're you'll really understand and that you're you'll really understand and that you're you'll really understand pretty clearly pretty clearly pretty clearly now we understand this we have to master now we understand this we have to master now we understand this we have to master it but we understand that it but we understand that it but we understand that you know people are people are searching you know people are people are searching you know people are people are searching for help with felt need issues for help with felt need issues for help with felt need issues true all the time and you guys are true all the time and you guys are true all the time and you guys are recognizing recognizing recognizing hey we can't expect them to come to us hey we can't expect them to come to us hey we can't expect them to come to us into a building or even join us online into a building or even join us online into a building or even join us online we have to go to them digitally can you we have to go to them digitally can you we have to go to them digitally can you speak into like what that looks like for

speak into like what that looks like for speak into like what that looks like for you guys and you guys and you guys and why absolutely you know this is why absolutely you know this is why absolutely you know this is something that my heart beats really something that my heart beats really something that my heart beats really strongly about just because my own strongly about just because my own strongly about just because my own personal journey personal journey personal journey right and uh you know for a long time right and uh you know for a long time right and uh you know for a long time the church the church the church of course has been trying to engage of course has been trying to engage of course has been trying to engage people in conversations about jesus and people in conversations about jesus and people in conversations about jesus and we want to introduce them we want to introduce them we want to introduce them to him yeah and we want them to to him yeah and we want them to to him yeah and we want them to understand understand understand that you know he has the hope that that you know he has the hope that that you know he has the hope that they're looking for he has the they're looking for he has the they're looking for he has the um the things that can you know give um the things that can you know give um the things that can you know give them freedom them freedom them freedom from the from the the pieces of their from the from the the pieces of their from the from the the pieces of their life that are holding them back and he life that are holding them back and he life that are holding them back and he can heal those places of woundedness and can heal those places of woundedness and can heal those places of woundedness and um broken relationships and and you know um broken relationships and and you know um broken relationships and and you know we want that for them and he wants that we want that for them and he wants that we want that for them and he wants that for them for them for them uh but if we're not where they are we uh but if we're not where they are we uh but if we're not where they are we can never have the conversation can never have the conversation can never have the conversation and so where are they well they're and so where are they well they're and so where are they well they're online online online they're on their phones uh they're they're on their phones uh they're they're on their phones uh they're searching google searching google searching google they're on facebook and so as a church they're on facebook and so as a church they're on facebook and so as a church we we we you know we have to go there and you know we have to go there and you know we have to go there and and and meet them and say say hey and and meet them and say say hey and and meet them and say say hey right and one of the ways that we can right and one of the ways that we can right and one of the ways that we can certainly do that certainly do that certainly do that is by trying to understand you know what is by trying to understand you know what is by trying to understand you know what is it that people is it that people is it that people are looking for you know what are the are looking for you know what are the are looking for you know what are the places where they need hope and what you places where they need hope and what you places where they need hope and what you know what sort of places can know what sort of places can know what sort of places can um they find well i try to say you know um they find well i try to say you know um they find well i try to say you know what are what are the ways in which what are what are the ways in which what are what are the ways in which the gospel the the hope fulfilled the gospel the the hope fulfilled the gospel the the hope fulfilled message of jesus can message of jesus can message of jesus can help meet whatever needs they they feel help meet whatever needs they they feel help meet whatever needs they they feel um you know but the best example is this

um you know but the best example is this um you know but the best example is this story that i use story that i use story that i use all the time it's my kind of my favorite all the time it's my kind of my favorite all the time it's my kind of my favorite story about why story about why story about why uh the search engine marketing matters uh the search engine marketing matters uh the search engine marketing matters you know and why you know and why you know and why targeted marketing like facebook really targeted marketing like facebook really targeted marketing like facebook really matters and that's this example so it's matters and that's this example so it's matters and that's this example so it's just hypothetical one that i made up just hypothetical one that i made up just hypothetical one that i made up right right right but this idea that you know there's a but this idea that you know there's a but this idea that you know there's a guy guy guy you know and he's it's two o'clock in you know and he's it's two o'clock in you know and he's it's two o'clock in the morning the morning the morning and he's on his phone and he's on his phone and he's on his phone and he's searching for i and he's searching for i and he's searching for i you know he doesn't know what to search you know he doesn't know what to search you know he doesn't know what to search for and he's entered in there i for and he's entered in there i for and he's entered in there i i think i'm ready for a divorce because i think i'm ready for a divorce because i think i'm ready for a divorce because his marriage has been really really his marriage has been really really his marriage has been really really on the rocks and doesn't know what to do on the rocks and doesn't know what to do on the rocks and doesn't know what to do he searches that and he searches that and he searches that and what he was expecting was a whole bunch what he was expecting was a whole bunch what he was expecting was a whole bunch of divorce lawyers of divorce lawyers of divorce lawyers in his search results but what we're in his search results but what we're in his search results but what we're trying to do is make sure that trying to do is make sure that trying to do is make sure that in that mix highly ranked what he sees in that mix highly ranked what he sees in that mix highly ranked what he sees is you know god can heal your marriage is you know god can heal your marriage is you know god can heal your marriage and and and just get an opportunity just to speak just get an opportunity just to speak just get an opportunity just to speak enough enough enough into him that perhaps he'll click into him that perhaps he'll click into him that perhaps he'll click through through through into you know an article that's into you know an article that's into you know an article that's really you know seeker focused and really you know seeker focused and really you know seeker focused and really helps him to understand that really helps him to understand that really helps him to understand that there is hope that god there is hope that god there is hope that god um can provide to him or perhaps it's a um can provide to him or perhaps it's a um can provide to him or perhaps it's a short video short video short video snippet from a sermon you know it's snippet from a sermon you know it's snippet from a sermon you know it's brief it's inspiring brief it's inspiring brief it's inspiring it's to the point it touches on his felt it's to the point it touches on his felt it's to the point it touches on his felt need need need and it gives him the opportunity to and it gives him the opportunity to and it gives him the opportunity to respond that response might be just respond that response might be just respond that response might be just you know yes please have someone call me you know yes please have someone call me you know yes please have someone call me uh or i'd like to ask some questions uh or i'd like to ask some questions uh or i'd like to ask some questions of a pastor uh i don't know we can come

of a pastor uh i don't know we can come of a pastor uh i don't know we can come up with lots of different you know up with lots of different you know up with lots of different you know action steps that that might be but action steps that that might be but action steps that that might be but that's where missional marketing comes that's where missional marketing comes that's where missional marketing comes in in in that's where our partnership happens that's where our partnership happens that's where our partnership happens because it's because it's because it's just my team we don't have enough time just my team we don't have enough time just my team we don't have enough time and capacity to become and capacity to become and capacity to become you know google and facebook master you know google and facebook master you know google and facebook master marketers marketers marketers uh so we met some people who are right uh so we met some people who are right uh so we met some people who are right let me i want to jump in here because i let me i want to jump in here because i let me i want to jump in here because i i love that story i love that analogy i i love that story i love that analogy i i love that story i love that analogy i use a similar one the one that i always use a similar one the one that i always use a similar one the one that i always share with pastors is i say share with pastors is i say share with pastors is i say you know imagine that the single mom you know imagine that the single mom you know imagine that the single mom who's recently who's recently who's recently divorced uh it's saturday night she's divorced uh it's saturday night she's divorced uh it's saturday night she's put her kids to bed she's sitting on the put her kids to bed she's sitting on the put her kids to bed she's sitting on the couch at 10 30 couch at 10 30 couch at 10 30 having her second or third glass of red having her second or third glass of red having her second or third glass of red wine and she's scrolling through her wine and she's scrolling through her wine and she's scrolling through her phone phone phone whether it's facebook instagram or some whether it's facebook instagram or some whether it's facebook instagram or some other social media platform and she sees other social media platform and she sees other social media platform and she sees an an an ad about finding purpose or finding ad about finding purpose or finding ad about finding purpose or finding meaning in her life meaning in her life meaning in her life and she clicks on it and for and she clicks on it and for and she clicks on it and for decades our call to action decades our call to action decades our call to action for the person that we were trying to for the person that we were trying to for the person that we were trying to reach whether it's the guy that's reach whether it's the guy that's reach whether it's the guy that's googling whether or not it's time for googling whether or not it's time for googling whether or not it's time for him to get a divorce him to get a divorce him to get a divorce or the single mom who's trying to figure or the single mom who's trying to figure or the single mom who's trying to figure out what the purpose of her life is out what the purpose of her life is out what the purpose of her life is our call to action has always been come our call to action has always been come our call to action has always been come to church on sunday to church on sunday to church on sunday come hear our new sermon series that's come hear our new sermon series that's come hear our new sermon series that's always been our call to action always been our call to action always been our call to action and i think that our culture is moving and i think that our culture is moving and i think that our culture is moving into such a into such a into such a post-christian culture that if we're post-christian culture that if we're post-christian culture that if we're expecting people's expecting people's expecting people's first step and first engagement with us first step and first engagement with us first step and first engagement with us to be to show up to be to show up to be to show up on our campus on sunday morning i think

on our campus on sunday morning i think on our campus on sunday morning i think it demonstrates that we don't really it demonstrates that we don't really it demonstrates that we don't really know the people that we're trying to know the people that we're trying to know the people that we're trying to reach because that's not going to be reach because that's not going to be reach because that's not going to be they weren't looking for a church in the they weren't looking for a church in the they weren't looking for a church in the first place they were looking first place they were looking first place they were looking for help with a problem and we have to for help with a problem and we have to for help with a problem and we have to figure out ways to figure out ways to figure out ways to kind of bridge that gap and kind of bridge that gap and kind of bridge that gap and create easier on-ramps for people just create easier on-ramps for people just create easier on-ramps for people just like jesus did like jesus did like jesus did let's meet the physical need you know let's meet the physical need you know let's meet the physical need you know let's help them solve whatever the let's help them solve whatever the let's help them solve whatever the problem is problem is problem is that they're facing immediately because that they're facing immediately because that they're facing immediately because their spiritual life isn't their spiritual life isn't their spiritual life isn't what's high on their radar it's the what's high on their radar it's the what's high on their radar it's the marriage or marriage or marriage or the parenting situation or the financial the parenting situation or the financial the parenting situation or the financial situation situation situation or their grief fear anxiety hopelessness or their grief fear anxiety hopelessness or their grief fear anxiety hopelessness purposelessness whatever that is purposelessness whatever that is purposelessness whatever that is that's their immediate need and and and that's their immediate need and and and that's their immediate need and and and and we i just think that there's so much and we i just think that there's so much and we i just think that there's so much value in what you guys are doing and how value in what you guys are doing and how value in what you guys are doing and how you're approaching that you're approaching that you're approaching that i applaud you that's pretty cool and i i applaud you that's pretty cool and i i applaud you that's pretty cool and i know that a lot of that has come as a know that a lot of that has come as a know that a lot of that has come as a result result result of just sort of the experimentation in of just sort of the experimentation in of just sort of the experimentation in the partnership um with missional the partnership um with missional the partnership um with missional marketing jason i think you you had a marketing jason i think you you had a marketing jason i think you you had a question it's probably related to that question it's probably related to that question it's probably related to that yeah yeah yeah well no i was gonna say was just for the well no i was gonna say was just for the well no i was gonna say was just for the audience audience audience you know the when you're when we're you know the when you're when we're you know the when you're when we're doing this stuff doing this stuff doing this stuff when we're talking about getting things when we're talking about getting things when we're talking about getting things out and reaching people where they are out and reaching people where they are out and reaching people where they are all we're doing is planting a digital all we're doing is planting a digital all we're doing is planting a digital seed yep seed yep seed yep it's not our job to save them if it's not our job to save them if it's not our job to save them if in fact you know it's the parable of the in fact you know it's the parable of the in fact you know it's the parable of the of the seeds some of that soil you know of the seeds some of that soil you know of the seeds some of that soil you know some of those seeds are going to fall on some of those seeds are going to fall on some of those seeds are going to fall on different types of soil yeah and our different types of soil yeah and our different types of soil yeah and our hope is that hope is that hope is that that guy at two o'clock in the morning

that guy at two o'clock in the morning that guy at two o'clock in the morning will find something and it's just a good will find something and it's just a good will find something and it's just a good enough soil enough soil enough soil and god does something in his heart yeah and god does something in his heart yeah and god does something in his heart yeah that's all we can ask that's all we can that's all we can ask that's all we can that's all we can ask that's all we can do do do god has to play and he does play a huge god has to play and he does play a huge god has to play and he does play a huge part in that part in that part in that so it you know kudos to you guys for so it you know kudos to you guys for so it you know kudos to you guys for actually actually actually scattering those digital seeds and my scattering those digital seeds and my scattering those digital seeds and my challenge to our listeners would be challenge to our listeners would be challenge to our listeners would be if you're not scattering those digital if you're not scattering those digital if you're not scattering those digital seeds you're expecting them to come to seeds you're expecting them to come to seeds you're expecting them to come to the house the house the house you know you're missing out on a huge you know you're missing out on a huge you know you're missing out on a huge opportunity well jason if i can run with opportunity well jason if i can run with opportunity well jason if i can run with that just for a second and say that just for a second and say that just for a second and say uh you know old school advertising uh you know old school advertising uh you know old school advertising television television television newspaper that kind of stuff it really newspaper that kind of stuff it really newspaper that kind of stuff it really literally was scattering the scenes literally was scattering the scenes literally was scattering the scenes right you know we always called the right you know we always called the right you know we always called the shotgun approach because you just can't shotgun approach because you just can't shotgun approach because you just can't get get get very well targeted in who you're trying very well targeted in who you're trying very well targeted in who you're trying to reach but that is so different now to reach but that is so different now to reach but that is so different now you know i mean the whole idea that you know i mean the whole idea that you know i mean the whole idea that you know whether it's on google or you know whether it's on google or you know whether it's on google or facebook or instagram or whatever facebook or instagram or whatever facebook or instagram or whatever that i can so narrowly and carefully that i can so narrowly and carefully that i can so narrowly and carefully define who it is that i'm trying to define who it is that i'm trying to define who it is that i'm trying to reach reach reach um i mean that's just the holy grail um i mean that's just the holy grail um i mean that's just the holy grail of you know what a marketer is looking of you know what a marketer is looking of you know what a marketer is looking for right for right for right and so i look at that and say okay you and so i look at that and say okay you and so i look at that and say okay you know know know who am i trying to reach and i can start who am i trying to reach and i can start who am i trying to reach and i can start to describe that prototypical person to describe that prototypical person to describe that prototypical person uh in in for all of its uh in in for all of its uh in in for all of its um bad right you know facebook will say um bad right you know facebook will say um bad right you know facebook will say okay we have okay we have okay we have here's 400 000 of that person would you here's 400 000 of that person would you here's 400 000 of that person would you like to narrow that down like to narrow that down like to narrow that down you know and so you know hey listen i'm you know and so you know hey listen i'm you know and so you know hey listen i'm just like just like just like the next guy in that you know i'm

the next guy in that you know i'm the next guy in that you know i'm weirded out by weirded out by weirded out by the big brother conspiracy theory you the big brother conspiracy theory you the big brother conspiracy theory you know end times invasive technology stuff know end times invasive technology stuff know end times invasive technology stuff right right right it weirds me out too but i can't stop it it weirds me out too but i can't stop it it weirds me out too but i can't stop it so i'm gonna try to redeem it right so so i'm gonna try to redeem it right so so i'm gonna try to redeem it right so you know you know you know but what's the name of the song right but what's the name of the song right but what's the name of the song right now you know that now you know that now you know that uh we're gonna take what the enemy meant uh we're gonna take what the enemy meant uh we're gonna take what the enemy meant for evil all right for evil all right for evil all right we're going to turn into it oh bart sorry yeah i was i oh bart sorry yeah i was i no yeah i'm here i muted myself i was no yeah i'm here i muted myself i was no yeah i'm here i muted myself i was kurt was on a roll there so i was like i kurt was on a roll there so i was like i kurt was on a roll there so i was like i don't want to do anything to interrupt don't want to do anything to interrupt don't want to do anything to interrupt so i muted myself so i didn't interrupt so i muted myself so i didn't interrupt so i muted myself so i didn't interrupt that was really good i was like i was that was really good i was like i was that was really good i was like i was sitting there i was i was sitting there sitting there i was i was sitting there sitting there i was i was sitting there i was i was listening to you going like i was i was listening to you going like i was i was listening to you going like there's some really good sound bites there's some really good sound bites there's some really good sound bites here with what he's saying right now i here with what he's saying right now i here with what he's saying right now i was just so focused was just so focused was just so focused um so let's rewind a little bit as jason um so let's rewind a little bit as jason um so let's rewind a little bit as jason mentioned we've we've had a partnership mentioned we've we've had a partnership mentioned we've we've had a partnership missional marketing with north woods for missional marketing with north woods for missional marketing with north woods for last uh five years or so uh you guys last uh five years or so uh you guys last uh five years or so uh you guys have consistently invested in things have consistently invested in things have consistently invested in things like local seo like local seo like local seo on-page seo interruptive advertising on-page seo interruptive advertising on-page seo interruptive advertising you've been leveraging the google ad you've been leveraging the google ad you've been leveraging the google ad grant grant grant so talk a little bit about uh just kind so talk a little bit about uh just kind so talk a little bit about uh just kind of the of the of the evolution of the process of how you evolution of the process of how you evolution of the process of how you moved into moved into moved into more of a digital space from the old more of a digital space from the old more of a digital space from the old postcard billboard postcard billboard postcard billboard advertising print advertising um and and advertising print advertising um and and advertising print advertising um and and talk a little bit about talk a little bit about talk a little bit about how you as the guy kind of leading that how you as the guy kind of leading that how you as the guy kind of leading that charge charge charge got your senior leaders on board with got your senior leaders on board with got your senior leaders on board with you you know you've you you know you've you you know you've you talked a little bit about the fact you talked a little bit about the fact you talked a little bit about the fact that you know senior leaders are not as

that you know senior leaders are not as that you know senior leaders are not as i'm a former pastor i'm a former pastor i'm a former pastor myself i pastored for about 17 years and myself i pastored for about 17 years and myself i pastored for about 17 years and there is a paradigm that we as pastors there is a paradigm that we as pastors there is a paradigm that we as pastors have in terms of what church is supposed have in terms of what church is supposed have in terms of what church is supposed to be to be to be and how it's supposed to work and then and how it's supposed to work and then and how it's supposed to work and then when we get dealt when we get dealt when we get dealt cards that tell us that we're gonna have cards that tell us that we're gonna have cards that tell us that we're gonna have to do things differently it's a little to do things differently it's a little to do things differently it's a little hard to get our heads around sometimes hard to get our heads around sometimes hard to get our heads around sometimes so so so you having to kind of lead up your you having to kind of lead up your you having to kind of lead up your leadership to get them on board with leadership to get them on board with leadership to get them on board with digital digital digital just talk a little bit about that just talk a little bit about that just talk a little bit about that process how you got going and and how process how you got going and and how process how you got going and and how you led you led you led up to get your leaders on board with up to get your leaders on board with up to get your leaders on board with what you're doing now sure what you're doing now sure what you're doing now sure well that's a big question and you know well that's a big question and you know well that's a big question and you know quite a journey that we've been on quite a journey that we've been on quite a journey that we've been on i want to back up as just a second bart i want to back up as just a second bart i want to back up as just a second bart and say i think our relationship with and say i think our relationship with and say i think our relationship with missional marketing goes back even missional marketing goes back even missional marketing goes back even further than that further than that further than that into the um old printed business into the um old printed business into the um old printed business director director director yeah and which is out of that is what yeah and which is out of that is what yeah and which is out of that is what you know where all the digital you know where all the digital you know where all the digital firm you know the digital capabilities firm you know the digital capabilities firm you know the digital capabilities really emerged really emerged really emerged and so when we first started that and so when we first started that and so when we first started that relationship relationship relationship the idea behind the directory for us the idea behind the directory for us the idea behind the directory for us that allowed our senior leadership to that allowed our senior leadership to that allowed our senior leadership to really embrace that really embrace that really embrace that was you know here are people in our was you know here are people in our was you know here are people in our church yeah they're entrepreneurs and church yeah they're entrepreneurs and church yeah they're entrepreneurs and business owners and you know but they're business owners and you know but they're business owners and you know but they're out there out there out there they're talking to the people that we're they're talking to the people that we're they're talking to the people that we're trying to meet and they want to see trying to meet and they want to see trying to meet and they want to see themselves as ministers in the themselves as ministers in the themselves as ministers in the marketplace and so that marketplace and so that marketplace and so that vision uh that was the vision behind the vision uh that was the vision behind the vision uh that was the vision behind the you know the business directory you know the business directory you know the business directory that caught hold right and we were that caught hold right and we were that caught hold right and we were definitely fans definitely fans definitely fans of that i think that culturally we of that i think that culturally we of that i think that culturally we entered a season then entered a season then entered a season then where it just was less relevant to have where it just was less relevant to have where it just was less relevant to have a printed directory

a printed directory a printed directory and so we moved into the digital and so we moved into the digital and so we moved into the digital directory realm and but the same directory realm and but the same directory realm and but the same mentality was accessible to leadership mentality was accessible to leadership mentality was accessible to leadership right they could say okay yeah we get right they could say okay yeah we get right they could say okay yeah we get that right because they themselves were that right because they themselves were that right because they themselves were moving along moving along moving along with the culture albeit they're not on with the culture albeit they're not on with the culture albeit they're not on the front end of the bell curve they're the front end of the bell curve they're the front end of the bell curve they're on the back end of the belt on the back end of the belt on the back end of the belt right but um and so you know initially right but um and so you know initially right but um and so you know initially in our early relationship they were in our early relationship they were in our early relationship they were aware aware aware of the of the name missional marketing of the of the name missional marketing of the of the name missional marketing and they're aware of the language and they're aware of the language and they're aware of the language of you know doing things digitally um of you know doing things digitally um of you know doing things digitally um but you know not necessarily what they but you know not necessarily what they but you know not necessarily what they would be thinking of as would be thinking of as would be thinking of as a first step for anything that we do a first step for anything that we do a first step for anything that we do and so so now fast forward to and so so now fast forward to and so so now fast forward to conversations beginning about you know conversations beginning about you know conversations beginning about you know hey we can actually hey we can actually hey we can actually do more than just your business do more than just your business do more than just your business directory digitally let's talk about directory digitally let's talk about directory digitally let's talk about how we can help you um get into the how we can help you um get into the how we can help you um get into the google ad google ad google ad networks and you know get into you know networks and you know get into you know networks and you know get into you know facebook was really just getting rolling facebook was really just getting rolling facebook was really just getting rolling at that time at that time at that time you know missional marketing has been you know missional marketing has been you know missional marketing has been discovering the territory and discovering the territory and discovering the territory and in sort of taking us along for the ride in sort of taking us along for the ride in sort of taking us along for the ride and and and we really you know we weren't equipped we really you know we weren't equipped we really you know we weren't equipped with enough resource on our own as a with enough resource on our own as a with enough resource on our own as a church church church to do that kind of discovery um but you to do that kind of discovery um but you to do that kind of discovery um but you guys have been positioned in a way where guys have been positioned in a way where guys have been positioned in a way where you're serving the whole kingdom right you're serving the whole kingdom right you're serving the whole kingdom right you know you're being able to sort of you know you're being able to sort of you know you're being able to sort of pool resources from a variety of local pool resources from a variety of local pool resources from a variety of local congregations congregations congregations and really uh deploy them in a way that and really uh deploy them in a way that and really uh deploy them in a way that we can you know we can we can you know we can we can you know we can literally come along for the ride literally come along for the ride literally come along for the ride so now next step forward you're asking

so now next step forward you're asking so now next step forward you're asking so you know does senior leadership now so you know does senior leadership now so you know does senior leadership now fully embrace this and do they totally fully embrace this and do they totally fully embrace this and do they totally understand what's going on and understand what's going on and understand what's going on and no they don't but that's my job right is no they don't but that's my job right is no they don't but that's my job right is that that that each year kind of roll the ball forward each year kind of roll the ball forward each year kind of roll the ball forward a little bit a little bit a little bit right you know and make sure that i i right you know and make sure that i i right you know and make sure that i i show them hey here's what's happening show them hey here's what's happening show them hey here's what's happening here's the results of this money that here's the results of this money that here's the results of this money that we've been spending we've been spending we've been spending and the numbers of people who are being and the numbers of people who are being and the numbers of people who are being ministered to ministered to ministered to their their reading um things you know their their reading um things you know their their reading um things you know or they're watching or they're watching or they're watching or they're listening to these this or they're listening to these this or they're listening to these this message that we're trying to get out message that we're trying to get out message that we're trying to get out variety different ways it doesn't mean variety different ways it doesn't mean variety different ways it doesn't mean they sat down and they watched the they sat down and they watched the they sat down and they watched the entire sermon right it doesn't mean entire sermon right it doesn't mean entire sermon right it doesn't mean they're they're they're you know quote unquote but in the seat you know quote unquote but in the seat you know quote unquote but in the seat can i say that on your podcast can i say that on your podcast can i say that on your podcast yep um you know the measurements are yep um you know the measurements are yep um you know the measurements are different different different right but the goal is the same it's right but the goal is the same it's right but the goal is the same it's engagement it's relationship with engagement it's relationship with engagement it's relationship with with them um and so they with them um and so they with them um and so they you know leadership understands that uh you know leadership understands that uh you know leadership understands that uh but it is true right that it's that just but it is true right that it's that just but it is true right that it's that just because they understand it doesn't mean because they understand it doesn't mean because they understand it doesn't mean they're super thrilled about it or that they're super thrilled about it or that they're super thrilled about it or that we we we you know we move uh rapidly in that you know we move uh rapidly in that you know we move uh rapidly in that direction there's there's a lot of direction there's there's a lot of direction there's there's a lot of um so they don't give you every dollar um so they don't give you every dollar um so they don't give you every dollar you ask for to spend they don't give you you ask for to spend they don't give you you ask for to spend they don't give you every dollar you ask for to spend every dollar you ask for to spend every dollar you ask for to spend no not exactly you know but they have no not exactly you know but they have no not exactly you know but they have been quite generous to be honest been quite generous to be honest been quite generous to be honest um you know we have spent a significant um you know we have spent a significant um you know we have spent a significant amount of money with missional marketing amount of money with missional marketing amount of money with missional marketing but it's because the vision is so but it's because the vision is so but it's because the vision is so powerful in my opinion the idea that we powerful in my opinion the idea that we powerful in my opinion the idea that we can meet people where they are can meet people where they are can meet people where they are and that we can continue to get better

and that we can continue to get better and that we can continue to get better at at at inviting them and inspiring them into a inviting them and inspiring them into a inviting them and inspiring them into a next step next step next step that's what's so huge right i would say that's what's so huge right i would say that's what's so huge right i would say that it's a fair thing that it's a fair thing that it's a fair thing to say that northwoods is nowhere near to say that northwoods is nowhere near to say that northwoods is nowhere near 100 100 100 optimizing the potential of what optimizing the potential of what optimizing the potential of what what could be done through the google what could be done through the google what could be done through the google grants and things like that grants and things like that grants and things like that but at least we're starting and we i but at least we're starting and we i but at least we're starting and we i see there's a huge amount of potential see there's a huge amount of potential see there's a huge amount of potential that i can convince my leaders that i can convince my leaders that i can convince my leaders of that potential and they're willing to of that potential and they're willing to of that potential and they're willing to invest invest invest i want to take a moment to thank you for i want to take a moment to thank you for i want to take a moment to thank you for tuning in to the missional marketing tuning in to the missional marketing tuning in to the missional marketing podcast podcast podcast it's always our goal to help you as a it's always our goal to help you as a it's always our goal to help you as a church leader leverage your church leader leverage your church leader leverage your communications and digital media communications and digital media communications and digital media resources to reach more people for jesus resources to reach more people for jesus resources to reach more people for jesus one of the ways that we help churches do one of the ways that we help churches do one of the ways that we help churches do that is through creating social media that is through creating social media that is through creating social media content from your sunday sermon content from your sunday sermon content from your sunday sermon videos specifically what we can do for videos specifically what we can do for videos specifically what we can do for you is to create short sermon snippets you is to create short sermon snippets you is to create short sermon snippets from 30 seconds long to five minutes from 30 seconds long to five minutes from 30 seconds long to five minutes long long long capturing those mic drop moments that capturing those mic drop moments that capturing those mic drop moments that you really want people to remember you really want people to remember you really want people to remember we edit the videos add captions add your we edit the videos add captions add your we edit the videos add captions add your church branding church branding church branding and then you or we post them to your and then you or we post them to your and then you or we post them to your social media channels social media channels social media channels as a pastor i always love to see my as a pastor i always love to see my as a pastor i always love to see my sermon content live on beyond the sermon content live on beyond the sermon content live on beyond the sundays sundays sundays and i know that's what you value for and i know that's what you value for and i know that's what you value for your sermons too we offer this service your sermons too we offer this service your sermons too we offer this service as a monthly subscription but we've got as a monthly subscription but we've got as a monthly subscription but we've got a six week trial that gives you a chance a six week trial that gives you a chance a six week trial that gives you a chance to see how it works to see how it works to see how it works if you'd like more information just if you'd like more information just if you'd like more information just shoot me an email at beblair shoot me an email at beblair shoot me an email at beblair missionalmarketing.com i'd be glad to missionalmarketing.com i'd be glad to missionalmarketing.com i'd be glad to meet with you explain the process and meet with you explain the process and meet with you explain the process and answer any questions that you have answer any questions that you have answer any questions that you have once again thanks for tuning in to our once again thanks for tuning in to our once again thanks for tuning in to our podcast let's get back to the interview

podcast let's get back to the interview podcast let's get back to the interview so kurt uh as we were saying like so kurt uh as we were saying like so kurt uh as we were saying like there's there's there's uh every church is on some kind of a uh every church is on some kind of a uh every church is on some kind of a level with this already they're on level with this already they're on level with this already they're on some part of the spectrum some churches some part of the spectrum some churches some part of the spectrum some churches are way way down the path like they are way way down the path like they are way way down the path like they embrace embrace embrace you know digital technology and it not you know digital technology and it not you know digital technology and it not just you know just you know just you know to have their sunday sermon or service to have their sunday sermon or service to have their sunday sermon or service but they actually use it to reach all but they actually use it to reach all but they actually use it to reach all kinds of people and they're going really kinds of people and they're going really kinds of people and they're going really really deep really deep really deep other churches and a lot of these are on other churches and a lot of these are on other churches and a lot of these are on this side of it they haven't even this side of it they haven't even this side of it they haven't even started yet started yet started yet maybe they've boosted the facebook posts maybe they've boosted the facebook posts maybe they've boosted the facebook posts here and there you know that kind of a here and there you know that kind of a here and there you know that kind of a thing but they've never really thing but they've never really thing but they've never really rolled up their sleeves and got to work rolled up their sleeves and got to work rolled up their sleeves and got to work in using digital tools to reach people in using digital tools to reach people in using digital tools to reach people at two o'clock in the morning at two o'clock in the morning at two o'clock in the morning what would you say to those people like what would you say to those people like what would you say to those people like uh how do you get started what should uh how do you get started what should uh how do you get started what should you do um well okay so here's what i would say um well okay so here's what i would say and that is you need to start you can and that is you need to start you can and that is you need to start you can start small start small start small you don't have to start with trying to you don't have to start with trying to you don't have to start with trying to invite everyone in the world invite everyone in the world invite everyone in the world right because you cannot invite everyone right because you cannot invite everyone right because you cannot invite everyone in the world in the world in the world but the second thing is while you're but the second thing is while you're but the second thing is while you're letting those systems and processes do letting those systems and processes do letting those systems and processes do the work that they are good to do the work that they are good to do the work that they are good to do it's important i believe to take the it's important i believe to take the it's important i believe to take the time to make sure that you're prepared time to make sure that you're prepared time to make sure that you're prepared to receive the people that may come to receive the people that may come to receive the people that may come through that through that through that the worst case scenario in my mind is the worst case scenario in my mind is the worst case scenario in my mind is someone responds to an ad someone responds to an ad someone responds to an ad they click through with a need they need they click through with a need they need they click through with a need they need someone and you're not there someone and you're not there someone and you're not there now does that mean you have to be 24 7

now does that mean you have to be 24 7 now does that mean you have to be 24 7 online you know i'm ready to take a chat online you know i'm ready to take a chat online you know i'm ready to take a chat from somebody no i'm not saying that from somebody no i'm not saying that from somebody no i'm not saying that i'm just saying have a process have i'm just saying have a process have i'm just saying have a process have thought it through thought it through thought it through for you know this is going to be for you know this is going to be for you know this is going to be incoming ministry incoming ministry incoming ministry opportunity this is an on-ramp to opportunity this is an on-ramp to opportunity this is an on-ramp to engagement with me engagement with me engagement with me and my church and the jesus that i and my church and the jesus that i and my church and the jesus that i represent that represent that represent that i want to introduce them for to i want to introduce them for to i want to introduce them for to introduce them to introduce them to introduce them to um so i really need to get uh prepared um so i really need to get uh prepared um so i really need to get uh prepared for that you may already have ministries for that you may already have ministries for that you may already have ministries in place that are that all you have to in place that are that all you have to in place that are that all you have to do is just sort of do is just sort of do is just sort of introduce and hand off maybe you have introduce and hand off maybe you have introduce and hand off maybe you have ministries that won't fit and you need ministries that won't fit and you need ministries that won't fit and you need to retool those to retool those to retool those move them and change up who's doing what move them and change up who's doing what move them and change up who's doing what or maybe you have to build some new or maybe you have to build some new or maybe you have to build some new stuff you don't have to do stuff you don't have to do stuff you don't have to do any of that overnight all at once any of that overnight all at once any of that overnight all at once you can take steps you know as small as you can take steps you know as small as you can take steps you know as small as you need to you need to you need to but you need to take steps yeah oh i but you need to take steps yeah oh i but you need to take steps yeah oh i that's such a great answer uh because i that's such a great answer uh because i that's such a great answer uh because i think sometimes we think think sometimes we think think sometimes we think we need to be like life church really we need to be like life church really we need to be like life church really you know you know you know you just need to start somewhere i i get you just need to start somewhere i i get you just need to start somewhere i i get to talk with a lot of churches and sort to talk with a lot of churches and sort to talk with a lot of churches and sort of consult them of consult them of consult them and just and and tell them just do this and just and and tell them just do this and just and and tell them just do this do this one thing just start there do this one thing just start there do this one thing just start there you know and it's usually painting the you know and it's usually painting the you know and it's usually painting the picture of picture of picture of you know you got some really good you know you got some really good you know you got some really good ministry in your church but ministry in your church but ministry in your church but people are not neces who don't know you people are not neces who don't know you people are not neces who don't know you are not necessarily going to be like oh are not necessarily going to be like oh are not necessarily going to be like oh i'll show up to i'll show up to i'll show up to a seven o'clock wednesday evening thing a seven o'clock wednesday evening thing a seven o'clock wednesday evening thing to share with a bunch of people i don't to share with a bunch of people i don't to share with a bunch of people i don't know about all my baggage like that's know about all my baggage like that's know about all my baggage like that's you know some people might be ready for

you know some people might be ready for you know some people might be ready for that most people won't that most people won't that most people won't so you like you said you have to kind of so you like you said you have to kind of so you like you said you have to kind of be ready to receive them be ready to receive them be ready to receive them and offer them advice and counsel and and offer them advice and counsel and and offer them advice and counsel and just just just love on them and just start with one love on them and just start with one love on them and just start with one felt need and go felt need and go felt need and go and grow from there you know and that's and grow from there you know and that's and grow from there you know and that's something you guys have done something you guys have done something you guys have done sure yeah kurt you said you said sure yeah kurt you said you said sure yeah kurt you said you said something you said something earlier something you said something earlier something you said something earlier in our conversation about you know in our conversation about you know in our conversation about you know whether or not people were saying people whether or not people were saying people whether or not people were saying people were saying were saying were saying like this is the new gutenberg right like this is the new gutenberg right like this is the new gutenberg right we're at kind of this this pivotal place we're at kind of this this pivotal place we're at kind of this this pivotal place and i don't know that i would go so far and i don't know that i would go so far and i don't know that i would go so far as to say that you know as to say that you know as to say that you know that this transformation of our that this transformation of our that this transformation of our church world and ministry focus is that church world and ministry focus is that church world and ministry focus is that significant significant significant i will say there was a day and time i will say there was a day and time i will say there was a day and time where churches first started installing where churches first started installing where churches first started installing sound systems and microphones and i sound systems and microphones and i sound systems and microphones and i don't know the history of that don't know the history of that don't know the history of that but i would guess that there was but i would guess that there was but i would guess that there was probably some controversy because we are probably some controversy because we are probably some controversy because we are the church and we do tend the church and we do tend the church and we do tend to adapt slowly to technology right but to adapt slowly to technology right but to adapt slowly to technology right but that was a technology that was a technology that was a technology that actually changed the way that a that actually changed the way that a that actually changed the way that a preacher or a pastor preacher or a pastor preacher or a pastor was communicating to a crowd where you was communicating to a crowd where you was communicating to a crowd where you now you can gather in a building instead now you can gather in a building instead now you can gather in a building instead of you know only being able to of you know only being able to of you know only being able to communicate to a couple of hundred communicate to a couple of hundred communicate to a couple of hundred people you can now communicate to people you can now communicate to people you can now communicate to thousands of people thousands of people thousands of people you know uh billy graham you know uh you know uh billy graham you know uh you know uh billy graham you know uh one of the he spoke to this crowd in one of the he spoke to this crowd in one of the he spoke to this crowd in korea that was over korea that was over korea that was over a million people and it was at the time a million people and it was at the time a million people and it was at the time the largest the largest the largest gathering of like the largest gathering gathering of like the largest gathering gathering of like the largest gathering of of of people in one specific event or people in one specific event or people in one specific event or something like that something like that something like that and that wouldn't have been possible

and that wouldn't have been possible and that wouldn't have been possible without a microphone and a sound system without a microphone and a sound system without a microphone and a sound system like like like i mean we're talking like i guess 1960s i mean we're talking like i guess 1960s i mean we're talking like i guess 1960s probably probably probably um must have been some sound system for um must have been some sound system for um must have been some sound system for the for the 1960s the for the 1960s the for the 1960s probably just borrowed the the who's probably just borrowed the the who's probably just borrowed the the who's sound system sound system sound system you know for for that whatever but but you know for for that whatever but but you know for for that whatever but but that was a change in technology and now that was a change in technology and now that was a change in technology and now what i would say is that digital media what i would say is that digital media what i would say is that digital media is kind of like a new microphone is kind of like a new microphone is kind of like a new microphone what it's really enabling us to do is what it's really enabling us to do is what it's really enabling us to do is amplify our voice amplify our voice amplify our voice amplify our reach expand our digital amplify our reach expand our digital amplify our reach expand our digital footprint footprint footprint expand our footprint of reach so that we expand our footprint of reach so that we expand our footprint of reach so that we can actually connect with more people can actually connect with more people can actually connect with more people online and online and online and you know to your point uh if you don't you know to your point uh if you don't you know to your point uh if you don't do it now if you don't do something now do it now if you don't do something now do it now if you don't do something now the people that you're trying to reach the people that you're trying to reach the people that you're trying to reach you just won't be able to reach them you just won't be able to reach them you just won't be able to reach them because they're all on the internet because they're all on the internet because they're all on the internet everybody's on the internet even my 70 everybody's on the internet even my 70 everybody's on the internet even my 70 some year old mother spends a lot of some year old mother spends a lot of some year old mother spends a lot of time on the internet time on the internet time on the internet and uh so it is just a reality it's and uh so it is just a reality it's and uh so it is just a reality it's something that you just have to something that you just have to something that you just have to have to dip your toes in the water and have to dip your toes in the water and have to dip your toes in the water and start somewhere start somewhere start somewhere well imagine if you were a church right well imagine if you were a church right well imagine if you were a church right now installing a sound system now installing a sound system now installing a sound system and that you're in that you're doing and that you're in that you're doing and that you're in that you're doing that with the thought in your mind that that with the thought in your mind that that with the thought in your mind that this is going to help us reach people this is going to help us reach people this is going to help us reach people well i mean we can almost laugh at that well i mean we can almost laugh at that well i mean we can almost laugh at that right now and say right now and say right now and say what do you what do you mean right it's what do you what do you mean right it's what do you what do you mean right it's just an episode so if just an episode so if just an episode so if five years from now you're saying hey five years from now you're saying hey five years from now you're saying hey we're going to get on facebook we're going to get on facebook we're going to get on facebook so right who cares right so so right who cares right so so right who cares right so it's you know we can't get so far behind it's you know we can't get so far behind it's you know we can't get so far behind that the culture leaves us behind that the culture leaves us behind that the culture leaves us behind in fact we want to be racing with the in fact we want to be racing with the in fact we want to be racing with the culture so that we can culture so that we can culture so that we can shape it and influence you know shape it and influence you know shape it and influence you know image yeah the two things that you made

image yeah the two things that you made image yeah the two things that you made me think of when you were speaking there me think of when you were speaking there me think of when you were speaking there is is is you mentioned life church right and you mentioned life church right and you mentioned life church right and you're right we can't all be you're right we can't all be you're right we can't all be craig rochelle right and but he's built craig rochelle right and but he's built craig rochelle right and but he's built an incredible an incredible an incredible organization that has really organization that has really organization that has really set their heart and their mind and their set their heart and their mind and their set their heart and their mind and their money to money to money to building the kingdom by redeeming and building the kingdom by redeeming and building the kingdom by redeeming and leveraging technology for that so i i leveraging technology for that so i i leveraging technology for that so i i praise them and i thank them praise them and i thank them praise them and i thank them for how much we've learned from them and for how much we've learned from them and for how much we've learned from them and we use the church online platform every we use the church online platform every we use the church online platform every single week right you know that's a free single week right you know that's a free single week right you know that's a free gift they give to the community gift they give to the community gift they give to the community yeah i use the youversion bible app yeah i use the youversion bible app yeah i use the youversion bible app every day every day you have every day every day you have every day every day you have millions and millions others yeah but i millions and millions others yeah but i millions and millions others yeah but i think one huge thing that's been think one huge thing that's been think one huge thing that's been happening happening happening and especially with this whole realm of and especially with this whole realm of and especially with this whole realm of digital ministry digital ministry digital ministry um is that the actual goal um is that the actual goal um is that the actual goal is changing okay if as a church you're is changing okay if as a church you're is changing okay if as a church you're entering into entering into entering into work with missional marketing or you work with missional marketing or you work with missional marketing or you know online ministry or anything like know online ministry or anything like know online ministry or anything like that and your goal that and your goal that and your goal is to get people into your building and is to get people into your building and is to get people into your building and into a seat into a seat into a seat that's the wrong goal right it's not how that's the wrong goal right it's not how that's the wrong goal right it's not how it works it's not what it's going to do it works it's not what it's going to do it works it's not what it's going to do best best best the goal is to engage with them in some the goal is to engage with them in some the goal is to engage with them in some kind of relationship if it's as minimal kind of relationship if it's as minimal kind of relationship if it's as minimal as a chat as a chat as a chat or as extensive you know as a phone call or as extensive you know as a phone call or as extensive you know as a phone call or repeated phone calls or or repeated phone calls or or repeated phone calls or or emails whatever it is you're engaging or emails whatever it is you're engaging or emails whatever it is you're engaging in some kind of a relationship with them in some kind of a relationship with them in some kind of a relationship with them so that they're taking next steps you so that they're taking next steps you so that they're taking next steps you know you're inviting them and walking know you're inviting them and walking know you're inviting them and walking with them with them with them a little bit closer to jesus and they a little bit closer to jesus and they a little bit closer to jesus and they may never may never may never actually come and sit in your church

actually come and sit in your church actually come and sit in your church but you can still minister to them it's but you can still minister to them it's but you can still minister to them it's a huge tension in the church right a huge tension in the church right a huge tension in the church right because they also because they also because they also you know they're maybe they're not you know they're maybe they're not you know they're maybe they're not putting something in the offering plate putting something in the offering plate putting something in the offering plate as you pass it by as you pass it by as you pass it by but there are solutions for that too so but there are solutions for that too so but there are solutions for that too so yeah that's all that's another podcast yeah that's all that's another podcast yeah that's all that's another podcast [Laughter] [Laughter] [Laughter] so kurt other than life church uh what so kurt other than life church uh what so kurt other than life church uh what other churches what other other churches what other other churches what other uh churches or church leaders or uh churches or church leaders or uh churches or church leaders or ministries are you looking to ministries are you looking to ministries are you looking to that and aside from missional marketing that and aside from missional marketing that and aside from missional marketing i think you've plugged us well thank you i think you've plugged us well thank you i think you've plugged us well thank you and we and we and we again we appreciate the partnership it again we appreciate the partnership it again we appreciate the partnership it is our podcast so it's only fair that we is our podcast so it's only fair that we is our podcast so it's only fair that we can't can't can't um but uh you know aside from missional um but uh you know aside from missional um but uh you know aside from missional marketing and aside from life church marketing and aside from life church marketing and aside from life church um you know who else are you looking to um you know who else are you looking to um you know who else are you looking to who are you learning from who are you learning from who are you learning from to develop your online ministry and to to develop your online ministry and to to develop your online ministry and to continue to expand your reach online continue to expand your reach online continue to expand your reach online you know that's actually a tougher you know that's actually a tougher you know that's actually a tougher question to to answer question to to answer question to to answer than than you might think in fact it's than than you might think in fact it's than than you might think in fact it's in in my notes that i in in my notes that i in in my notes that i i was thinking through as i prepared for i was thinking through as i prepared for i was thinking through as i prepared for this it's the only one that has just one this it's the only one that has just one this it's the only one that has just one little thing little thing little thing and that's because you know i really and that's because you know i really and that's because you know i really feel like that's an ongoing conversation feel like that's an ongoing conversation feel like that's an ongoing conversation and there is something to learn from so and there is something to learn from so and there is something to learn from so many people many people many people that are out there the thing that has that are out there the thing that has that are out there the thing that has been the most powerful for me been the most powerful for me been the most powerful for me personally is being involved in things personally is being involved in things personally is being involved in things like the church iep roundtable which is like the church iep roundtable which is like the church iep roundtable which is you know their you know their you know their church network whatever they call it you church network whatever they call it you church network whatever they call it you know it's a you know know it's a you know know it's a you know global or national and global collective global or national and global collective global or national and global collective of of of like-minded you know technically-minded like-minded you know technically-minded like-minded you know technically-minded people it's kind of a church nerd fest people it's kind of a church nerd fest people it's kind of a church nerd fest right and but it's awesome because it's right and but it's awesome because it's right and but it's awesome because it's all kinds of people who really

all kinds of people who really all kinds of people who really understand this idea that technology understand this idea that technology understand this idea that technology is the conduit to people it's the next is the conduit to people it's the next is the conduit to people it's the next on-rate it's the next road on-rate it's the next road on-rate it's the next road and so there are dozens and dozens of and so there are dozens and dozens of and so there are dozens and dozens of what i would consider what i would consider what i would consider thought leaders in an organization like thought leaders in an organization like thought leaders in an organization like that that they may that that they may that that they may maybe don't have their own podcast maybe don't have their own podcast maybe don't have their own podcast they're not going to have a book you they're not going to have a book you they're not going to have a book you know know know they're not a well-known name but the they're not a well-known name but the they're not a well-known name but the networking and resourcing that happens networking and resourcing that happens networking and resourcing that happens in an organization like that in an organization like that in an organization like that is huge because everybody's avid readers is huge because everybody's avid readers is huge because everybody's avid readers right and i had i heard right and i had i heard right and i had i heard rich birch say this when i heard carrie rich birch say this when i heard carrie rich birch say this when i heard carrie newhoff i read this thing that he wrote newhoff i read this thing that he wrote newhoff i read this thing that he wrote right you know right you know right you know and literally that list could be dozens and literally that list could be dozens and literally that list could be dozens and dozens of people and dozens of people and dozens of people long and we learn from each and every long and we learn from each and every long and we learn from each and every single one of them single one of them single one of them uh i don't feel like we're in a place uh i don't feel like we're in a place uh i don't feel like we're in a place these days at least northwoods we're not these days at least northwoods we're not these days at least northwoods we're not right where we're looking to right where we're looking to right where we're looking to one group you know like we were looking one group you know like we were looking one group you know like we were looking at the willow creek when we started at the willow creek when we started at the willow creek when we started many years ago as the person we're many years ago as the person we're many years ago as the person we're trying to emulate them trying to emulate them trying to emulate them you know we're learning from life church you know we're learning from life church you know we're learning from life church i mean they're you know i mean they're you know i mean they're you know they're amazing but we're not trying to they're amazing but we're not trying to they're amazing but we're not trying to be life church we're not trying to be life church we're not trying to be life church we're not trying to emulate them we're trying to emulate them we're trying to emulate them we're trying to learn how they address their specific learn how they address their specific learn how they address their specific environment their specific ministry call environment their specific ministry call environment their specific ministry call and utilizing the tools that were and utilizing the tools that were and utilizing the tools that were available to them available to them available to them to do it the best way that they possibly to do it the best way that they possibly to do it the best way that they possibly could that's what we're trying to do could that's what we're trying to do could that's what we're trying to do where god has put where god has put where god has put us and we're trying to learn everything us and we're trying to learn everything us and we're trying to learn everything we can from as many people as possible we can from as many people as possible we can from as many people as possible um we're learning from a lot of other um we're learning from a lot of other um we're learning from a lot of other people's mistakes people's mistakes people's mistakes we're learning from a lot of our own we're learning from a lot of our own we're learning from a lot of our own mistakes for sure

mistakes for sure mistakes for sure um but that's the beauty of digital um but that's the beauty of digital um but that's the beauty of digital right you know right you know right you know you didn't print 42 000 copies of your you didn't print 42 000 copies of your you didn't print 42 000 copies of your digital of your mistake digital of your mistake digital of your mistake right you know you just right you know you just right you know you just every time somebody makes a comment every time somebody makes a comment every time somebody makes a comment about that i remember the about that i remember the about that i remember the postcard that i printed for my church postcard that i printed for my church postcard that i printed for my church and right before they got mailed i and right before they got mailed i and right before they got mailed i realized the phone number realized the phone number realized the phone number on the postcard was my own home phone on the postcard was my own home phone on the postcard was my own home phone number number number well done 10 000 postcards well done 10 000 postcards well done 10 000 postcards about to be mailed out for a church about to be mailed out for a church about to be mailed out for a church event with oh shoot event with oh shoot event with oh shoot that's my own personal home phone number that's my own personal home phone number that's my own personal home phone number i don't know if anybody would have i don't know if anybody would have i don't know if anybody would have called called called again that was the shot those were back again that was the shot those were back again that was the shot those were back in the days when it was the shotgun in the days when it was the shotgun in the days when it was the shotgun approach we had no idea if anyone was approach we had no idea if anyone was approach we had no idea if anyone was even looking at the postcards even looking at the postcards even looking at the postcards but my wife was a little concerned that but my wife was a little concerned that but my wife was a little concerned that i'm about to mail out ten thousand i'm about to mail out ten thousand i'm about to mail out ten thousand postcards with our homes postcards with our homes postcards with our homes so well yeah hey as we wrap up here kurt so well yeah hey as we wrap up here kurt so well yeah hey as we wrap up here kurt i i i just want to say thanks again for taking just want to say thanks again for taking just want to say thanks again for taking the time with us it's been it's been an the time with us it's been it's been an the time with us it's been it's been an honor to be able to partner with north honor to be able to partner with north honor to be able to partner with north woods and and we really appreciate you woods and and we really appreciate you woods and and we really appreciate you coming and hanging out with us on the coming and hanging out with us on the coming and hanging out with us on the on the show today um how can people on the show today um how can people on the show today um how can people reach you if they want to just kind of reach you if they want to just kind of reach you if they want to just kind of pick your brain and dig a little bit pick your brain and dig a little bit pick your brain and dig a little bit deeper into some of the things that you deeper into some of the things that you deeper into some of the things that you guys are doing to leverage your digital guys are doing to leverage your digital guys are doing to leverage your digital tools yeah easiest way northwoods.church tools yeah easiest way northwoods.church tools yeah easiest way northwoods.church our website our website our website i'm in the staff listing it's you know i'm in the staff listing it's you know i'm in the staff listing it's you know super easy or it's you know kurt.manuel super easy or it's you know kurt.manuel super easy or it's you know kurt.manuel at northwoods.church at northwoods.church at northwoods.church uh but my name is spelled k-i-r-t go uh but my name is spelled k-i-r-t go uh but my name is spelled k-i-r-t go go figure i mean i don't even know the go figure i mean i don't even know the go figure i mean i don't even know the story of why but story of why but story of why but it's awesome okay well we'll make sure it's awesome okay well we'll make sure it's awesome okay well we'll make sure that we'll we'll make sure that we spell that we'll we'll make sure that we spell that we'll we'll make sure that we spell it right everywhere we print it it right everywhere we print it it right everywhere we print it um and we will uh put the put your um and we will uh put the put your um and we will uh put the put your contact information in the show notes

contact information in the show notes contact information in the show notes for anybody we can put your home phone for anybody we can put your home phone for anybody we can put your home phone number on there if you'd like us to number on there if you'd like us to number on there if you'd like us to please yeah let's go ahead and do that please yeah let's go ahead and do that please yeah let's go ahead and do that thanks again kurt it has been a real thanks again kurt it has been a real thanks again kurt it has been a real pleasure today thanks for uh hanging out pleasure today thanks for uh hanging out pleasure today thanks for uh hanging out with us with us with us glad to thank you thanks buddy