The Social Internet Threatens The People You Lead | Chris Martin

part of the problem with how we consume part of the problem with how we consume social media is we are not we're simply social media is we are not we're simply social media is we are not we're simply not designed to to consume information not designed to to consume information not designed to to consume information as quickly as we do and I talk about as quickly as we do and I talk about as quickly as we do and I talk about that a bit I think in that same chapter that a bit I think in that same chapter that a bit I think in that same chapter where where where um part of the reason we fall for Miss um part of the reason we fall for Miss um part of the reason we fall for Miss and disinformation isn't because we're and disinformation isn't because we're and disinformation isn't because we're bad people that want to be led astray bad people that want to be led astray bad people that want to be led astray um part of it could be that but part of um part of it could be that but part of um part of it could be that but part of it is we're consuming content far faster it is we're consuming content far faster it is we're consuming content far faster than we can than we can than we can um validate it and so we scroll past the um validate it and so we scroll past the um validate it and so we scroll past the 15 second Tick Tock about something 15 second Tick Tock about something 15 second Tick Tock about something that's going on in the world that's that's going on in the world that's that's going on in the world that's maybe like sort of conspiracy theory in maybe like sort of conspiracy theory in maybe like sort of conspiracy theory in nature and then we come across a link on nature and then we come across a link on nature and then we come across a link on Twitter that kind of reinforces that Twitter that kind of reinforces that Twitter that kind of reinforces that same thing and we read it like oh that's same thing and we read it like oh that's same thing and we read it like oh that's interesting but we never we're consuming interesting but we never we're consuming interesting but we never we're consuming content so quickly that we're just like content so quickly that we're just like content so quickly that we're just like in like going to Golden Corral's buffet in like going to Golden Corral's buffet in like going to Golden Corral's buffet and just stuffing ourselves with food and just stuffing ourselves with food and just stuffing ourselves with food but we're never taking the time to like but we're never taking the time to like but we're never taking the time to like think about if what we're consuming is think about if what we're consuming is think about if what we're consuming is actually right welcome to season three actually right welcome to season three actually right welcome to season three episode 28 of the missional marketing episode 28 of the missional marketing episode 28 of the missional marketing podcast my name is Bart Blair and I'm podcast my name is Bart Blair and I'm podcast my name is Bart Blair and I'm really really excited that you have really really excited that you have really really excited that you have tuned in to this week's episode as tuned in to this week's episode as tuned in to this week's episode as always our podcast is designed to help always our podcast is designed to help always our podcast is designed to help your church grow by leveraging digital your church grow by leveraging digital your church grow by leveraging digital marketing and effective Communications marketing and effective Communications marketing and effective Communications and today on the show we have one of our and today on the show we have one of our and today on the show we have one of our favorite guests Chris Martin uh is I favorite guests Chris Martin uh is I favorite guests Chris Martin uh is I believe in his fourth appearance on our believe in his fourth appearance on our believe in his fourth appearance on our podcast and is releasing his second book podcast and is releasing his second book podcast and is releasing his second book that deals with the topic of the social that deals with the topic of the social that deals with the topic of the social media world and how social media impacts media world and how social media impacts media world and how social media impacts us as individuals and impacts the church us as individuals and impacts the church us as individuals and impacts the church uh as a whole in fact this book is uh as a whole in fact this book is uh as a whole in fact this book is called the wolf in their pockets and it

called the wolf in their pockets and it called the wolf in their pockets and it is a book written to church leaders to is a book written to church leaders to is a book written to church leaders to help them understand how social media help them understand how social media help them understand how social media and how the internet are impacting uh and how the internet are impacting uh and how the internet are impacting uh the discipleship of people in their the discipleship of people in their the discipleship of people in their church and Chris gives some very very church and Chris gives some very very church and Chris gives some very very practical counsel in this book as to how practical counsel in this book as to how practical counsel in this book as to how church leaders can better navigate that church leaders can better navigate that church leaders can better navigate that space and disciple the people in their space and disciple the people in their space and disciple the people in their Church towards better use of the social Church towards better use of the social Church towards better use of the social internet as well as just being better internet as well as just being better internet as well as just being better followers of Jesus this in general Chris followers of Jesus this in general Chris followers of Jesus this in general Chris is always a blast to have on the show is always a blast to have on the show is always a blast to have on the show great guy and I hope that you will great guy and I hope that you will great guy and I hope that you will really appreciate this podcast really appreciate this podcast really appreciate this podcast um if you're enjoying our podcast and um if you're enjoying our podcast and um if you're enjoying our podcast and you haven't yet subscribed we hope that you haven't yet subscribed we hope that you haven't yet subscribed we hope that you will do so wherever it is that you you will do so wherever it is that you you will do so wherever it is that you consume it whether it's on your favorite consume it whether it's on your favorite consume it whether it's on your favorite podcasting app or if you're watching on podcasting app or if you're watching on podcasting app or if you're watching on our YouTube channel and if you haven't our YouTube channel and if you haven't our YouTube channel and if you haven't ever left us a rating or review we'd ever left us a rating or review we'd ever left us a rating or review we'd really appreciate you doing that really appreciate you doing that really appreciate you doing that um just because that helps more people um just because that helps more people um just because that helps more people find the podcast and it also confirms find the podcast and it also confirms find the podcast and it also confirms for us that we're creating content that for us that we're creating content that for us that we're creating content that is helpful for you again thanks for is helpful for you again thanks for is helpful for you again thanks for tuning in to this week's episode and tuning in to this week's episode and tuning in to this week's episode and here is Jason Hamrock the CEO of here is Jason Hamrock the CEO of here is Jason Hamrock the CEO of missional marketing in our conversation missional marketing in our conversation missional marketing in our conversation with Chris Martin with Chris Martin with Chris Martin why Chris welcome back why Chris welcome back why Chris welcome back to the podcast how you doing man to the podcast how you doing man to the podcast how you doing man I'm well how are you guys I'm well how are you guys I'm well how are you guys I'm I'm doing great I think I think this I'm I'm doing great I think I think this I'm I'm doing great I think I think this is your fourth time being back on our on is your fourth time being back on our on is your fourth time being back on our on our show if I remember correctly I I our show if I remember correctly I I our show if I remember correctly I I think you might be right I'm not sure think you might be right I'm not sure think you might be right I'm not sure it's been it's been a handful of times it's been it's been a handful of times it's been it's been a handful of times is that a record am I right now is that a record am I right now is that a record am I right now on our website so we may have to charge on our website so we may have to charge on our website so we may have to charge you I don't know but yeah you I don't know but yeah you I don't know but yeah gonna check your frequent flyer miles

gonna check your frequent flyer miles gonna check your frequent flyer miles here the national marketing podcast yeah here the national marketing podcast yeah here the national marketing podcast yeah it's true no every time we have you on it's true no every time we have you on it's true no every time we have you on we're just super excited because you we're just super excited because you we're just super excited because you come with a wealth of knowledge and this come with a wealth of knowledge and this come with a wealth of knowledge and this show is no different I'm really pumped show is no different I'm really pumped show is no different I'm really pumped about what we're going to talk about and about what we're going to talk about and about what we're going to talk about and uh you got some news on a new release on uh you got some news on a new release on uh you got some news on a new release on a book and that's what we're gonna dig a book and that's what we're gonna dig a book and that's what we're gonna dig into so everybody if you're you're into so everybody if you're you're into so everybody if you're you're listening to this this is going to be listening to this this is going to be listening to this this is going to be incredibly uh important for you to hear incredibly uh important for you to hear incredibly uh important for you to hear this message that we're going to talk this message that we're going to talk this message that we're going to talk about but before we get there Chris about but before we get there Chris about but before we get there Chris let's uh let's give our uh our audience let's uh let's give our uh our audience let's uh let's give our uh our audience for those who are new a little bit about for those who are new a little bit about for those who are new a little bit about you and a little bit about your you and a little bit about your you and a little bit about your background and and just give us some background and and just give us some background and and just give us some insight into your bio insight into your bio insight into your bio sure sure sure um yeah my name's Chris I live just um yeah my name's Chris I live just um yeah my name's Chris I live just outside Nashville Tennessee with my wife outside Nashville Tennessee with my wife outside Nashville Tennessee with my wife and my daughter and our dog and my daughter and our dog and my daughter and our dog um and I spent seven years um and I spent seven years um and I spent seven years um working in various digital marketing um working in various digital marketing um working in various digital marketing capacities at Lifeway Christian capacities at Lifeway Christian capacities at Lifeway Christian resources here in the Nashville area resources here in the Nashville area resources here in the Nashville area um I ran some blogs uh helped some VPS um I ran some blogs uh helped some VPS um I ran some blogs uh helped some VPS like Ed stetzer and Eric Geiger run like Ed stetzer and Eric Geiger run like Ed stetzer and Eric Geiger run their blogs I helped organize and their blogs I helped organize and their blogs I helped organize and Shepherd the dozen or so blogs that all Shepherd the dozen or so blogs that all Shepherd the dozen or so blogs that all the different ministries of LifeWay have the different ministries of LifeWay have the different ministries of LifeWay have and then eventually LED social media and then eventually LED social media and then eventually LED social media strategy at Lifeway strategy at Lifeway strategy at Lifeway um and did that for a bunch of years was um and did that for a bunch of years was um and did that for a bunch of years was there for seven years and then uh kind there for seven years and then uh kind there for seven years and then uh kind of started getting sick of working of started getting sick of working of started getting sick of working specifically in social media all the specifically in social media all the specifically in social media all the time and playing you know PR defense and time and playing you know PR defense and time and playing you know PR defense and all of that it was it was like fighting all of that it was it was like fighting all of that it was it was like fighting fires every day fires every day fires every day um and so uh it was it was it was fun in um and so uh it was it was it was fun in um and so uh it was it was it was fun in some respects but also just super some respects but also just super some respects but also just super draining because it kind of became you

draining because it kind of became you draining because it kind of became you know like who's mad at us online today know like who's mad at us online today know like who's mad at us online today and what do we do about it kind of a and what do we do about it kind of a and what do we do about it kind of a thing thing thing um so I in September 2020 uh changed um so I in September 2020 uh changed um so I in September 2020 uh changed jobs and went to Moody Publishers which jobs and went to Moody Publishers which jobs and went to Moody Publishers which is the publishing arm of Moody Bible is the publishing arm of Moody Bible is the publishing arm of Moody Bible Institute you may have heard of the Institute you may have heard of the Institute you may have heard of the school in downtown Chicago they have school in downtown Chicago they have school in downtown Chicago they have Moody Radio as well and Moody Publishers Moody Radio as well and Moody Publishers Moody Radio as well and Moody Publishers and I work there as I think my official and I work there as I think my official and I work there as I think my official title is a Content marketing editor title is a Content marketing editor title is a Content marketing editor which is doesn't it's like it's kind of which is doesn't it's like it's kind of which is doesn't it's like it's kind of right but it also doesn't mean anything right but it also doesn't mean anything right but it also doesn't mean anything if you don't know the context if you don't know the context if you don't know the context um I help run we created a website when um I help run we created a website when um I help run we created a website when I got there because you know we're a I got there because you know we're a I got there because you know we're a Christian publisher but we weren't Moody Christian publisher but we weren't Moody Christian publisher but we weren't Moody public Moody Publishers was not doing a public Moody Publishers was not doing a public Moody Publishers was not doing a lot on the internet at the time and lot on the internet at the time and lot on the internet at the time and other than just having basic social other than just having basic social other than just having basic social media and they said well what if we just media and they said well what if we just media and they said well what if we just saw ourselves as a publisher as having a saw ourselves as a publisher as having a saw ourselves as a publisher as having a bit broader of a responsibility we're bit broader of a responsibility we're bit broader of a responsibility we're not going to stop publishing books but not going to stop publishing books but not going to stop publishing books but what if we started making some more what if we started making some more what if we started making some more long-form articles available online for long-form articles available online for long-form articles available online for people uh to help not only introduce people uh to help not only introduce people uh to help not only introduce them to our books and yeah we hope that them to our books and yeah we hope that them to our books and yeah we hope that happens but also there are people happens but also there are people happens but also there are people Googling faith and life questions every Googling faith and life questions every Googling faith and life questions every day who are coming across some answers day who are coming across some answers day who are coming across some answers that are probably less than trust free that are probably less than trust free that are probably less than trust free are definitely less than trustworthy are definitely less than trustworthy are definitely less than trustworthy um and the internet's full of helpful um and the internet's full of helpful um and the internet's full of helpful content but it could always use a little content but it could always use a little content but it could always use a little bit more especially when it comes to bit more especially when it comes to bit more especially when it comes to matters of life and faith from a matters of life and faith from a matters of life and faith from a Christian perspective and so Christian perspective and so Christian perspective and so um I run a website called Bible to life um I run a website called Bible to life um I run a website called Bible to life at Moody Publishers that's really at Moody Publishers that's really at Moody Publishers that's really purpose to help anybody Christian or not purpose to help anybody Christian or not purpose to help anybody Christian or not who are looking for answers to their who are looking for answers to their who are looking for answers to their faith questions on the internet and so faith questions on the internet and so faith questions on the internet and so that's what I do with like my day job that's what I do with like my day job that's what I do with like my day job um but I also for fun study social media

um but I also for fun study social media um but I also for fun study social media and um not only how it affects us though and um not only how it affects us though and um not only how it affects us though certainly that but also just like what's certainly that but also just like what's certainly that but also just like what's happening on the internet like what are happening on the internet like what are happening on the internet like what are some internet culture things what does some internet culture things what does some internet culture things what does that say about us more broadly like that say about us more broadly like that say about us more broadly like sociologically spiritually I love sociologically spiritually I love sociologically spiritually I love studying that kind of stuff kind of as studying that kind of stuff kind of as studying that kind of stuff kind of as call it an armchair sociologist call it an armchair sociologist call it an armchair sociologist um but it's it's a blast and super um but it's it's a blast and super um but it's it's a blast and super fascinating about just what the internet fascinating about just what the internet fascinating about just what the internet says about us and wrote a book last year says about us and wrote a book last year says about us and wrote a book last year called terms of service that I think one called terms of service that I think one called terms of service that I think one of my four interviews is about of my four interviews is about of my four interviews is about um and that one I've always described um and that one I've always described um and that one I've always described that one that's like kind of like a that one that's like kind of like a that one that's like kind of like a mirror like hey what's social media mirror like hey what's social media mirror like hey what's social media doing to me and what should I do about doing to me and what should I do about doing to me and what should I do about it that was kind of the purpose of that it that was kind of the purpose of that it that was kind of the purpose of that book this one we're talking today is a book this one we're talking today is a book this one we're talking today is a little bit more for leaders and and little bit more for leaders and and little bit more for leaders and and parents even so whether Church leader or parents even so whether Church leader or parents even so whether Church leader or a parent a parent a parent to help answer the question of like okay to help answer the question of like okay to help answer the question of like okay what is social media doing to the people what is social media doing to the people what is social media doing to the people I love and I lead I care about and how I love and I lead I care about and how I love and I lead I care about and how can I better love and disciple and lead can I better love and disciple and lead can I better love and disciple and lead them even as I see social media them even as I see social media them even as I see social media discipling them more than just about discipling them more than just about discipling them more than just about anything and so that's kind of the hope anything and so that's kind of the hope anything and so that's kind of the hope of this and that's borne out of a lot of of this and that's borne out of a lot of of this and that's borne out of a lot of writing and Ministry and other speaking writing and Ministry and other speaking writing and Ministry and other speaking things I do and I heard frankly I heard things I do and I heard frankly I heard things I do and I heard frankly I heard from a lot of pastors after this last from a lot of pastors after this last from a lot of pastors after this last book hey this is a really helpful tool book hey this is a really helpful tool book hey this is a really helpful tool we'd love if you would write one we'd love if you would write one we'd love if you would write one specifically for like pastors and specifically for like pastors and specifically for like pastors and leaders and parents and I said done I'll leaders and parents and I said done I'll leaders and parents and I said done I'll give it a shot and so that's that's kind give it a shot and so that's that's kind give it a shot and so that's that's kind of what this book was born out of more of what this book was born out of more of what this book was born out of more of like a need than anything okay so the of like a need than anything okay so the of like a need than anything okay so the title of the book for everybody to title of the book for everybody to title of the book for everybody to you haven't said it yet is the wolf in you haven't said it yet is the wolf in you haven't said it yet is the wolf in their pockets the wolf in their pockets their pockets the wolf in their pockets their pockets the wolf in their pockets and and like you said it is more of a and and like you said it is more of a and and like you said it is more of a leadership book because your subtitle is leadership book because your subtitle is leadership book because your subtitle is 13 ways the social internet threatens

13 ways the social internet threatens 13 ways the social internet threatens the people you lead we're all leading the people you lead we're all leading the people you lead we're all leading somebody if you're alive you are leading somebody if you're alive you are leading somebody if you're alive you are leading somebody and you're someone of an adult somebody and you're someone of an adult somebody and you're someone of an adult right that could be people at work and right that could be people at work and right that could be people at work and that's probably the main target audience that's probably the main target audience that's probably the main target audience but I want you to speak into that but it but I want you to speak into that but it but I want you to speak into that but it also also could be you know our kids also also could be you know our kids also also could be you know our kids right our spouse it's not that we're right our spouse it's not that we're right our spouse it's not that we're leading our spouse but this would speak leading our spouse but this would speak leading our spouse but this would speak into that as well and so into that as well and so into that as well and so um I guess so you you kind of stated um I guess so you you kind of stated um I guess so you you kind of stated that that pastors were one of the the that that pastors were one of the the that that pastors were one of the the main reasons why you wrote this book main reasons why you wrote this book main reasons why you wrote this book which is which is really important which is which is really important which is which is really important because there's not a lot of content out because there's not a lot of content out because there's not a lot of content out there that there that there that that should inform you and I'm I'm that should inform you and I'm I'm that should inform you and I'm I'm really excited for you to kind of like really excited for you to kind of like really excited for you to kind of like um explain these 13 different chapters um explain these 13 different chapters um explain these 13 different chapters basically on how you structure this so basically on how you structure this so basically on how you structure this so explain a little bit of that and then explain a little bit of that and then explain a little bit of that and then um you know you use the the term stage um you know you use the the term stage um you know you use the the term stage to to describe the entertainment media to to describe the entertainment media to to describe the entertainment media mobile devices explain that term yeah mobile devices explain that term yeah mobile devices explain that term yeah yeah so the book like I said yeah so the book like I said yeah so the book like I said um in terms of service the first one was um in terms of service the first one was um in terms of service the first one was a book that was really if I was ever a book that was really if I was ever a book that was really if I was ever going to write anything on social media going to write anything on social media going to write anything on social media I felt like it was the thing I needed to I felt like it was the thing I needed to I felt like it was the thing I needed to write first like it was sort of a write first like it was sort of a write first like it was sort of a Manifesto on social media like here's Manifesto on social media like here's Manifesto on social media like here's what social media is and here's what what social media is and here's what what social media is and here's what it's doing to us and here's what we can it's doing to us and here's what we can it's doing to us and here's what we can do about that and it was like yeah it do about that and it was like yeah it do about that and it was like yeah it was I it was something I felt I I needed was I it was something I felt I I needed was I it was something I felt I I needed to do this one the wolf in their pockets to do this one the wolf in their pockets to do this one the wolf in their pockets was much more of in my view a response was much more of in my view a response was much more of in my view a response to a need that I continued to hear about to a need that I continued to hear about to a need that I continued to hear about I continued you know there there are I continued you know there there are I continued you know there there are books on like how to engage technology books on like how to engage technology books on like how to engage technology wisely you have Tony reinke's 12 ways

wisely you have Tony reinke's 12 ways wisely you have Tony reinke's 12 ways your phone is changing you you have Andy your phone is changing you you have Andy your phone is changing you you have Andy Crouch's techwise fam family those Crouch's techwise fam family those Crouch's techwise fam family those things are more specific to the things are more specific to the things are more specific to the technology uh phones and and other forms technology uh phones and and other forms technology uh phones and and other forms of technology but I frankly haven't seen of technology but I frankly haven't seen of technology but I frankly haven't seen a ton of uh leadership books around a ton of uh leadership books around a ton of uh leadership books around social media specifically like and and social media specifically like and and social media specifically like and and phones and social media are different uh phones and social media are different uh phones and social media are different uh believe it or not like those believe it or not like those believe it or not like those conversations are different conversations are different conversations are different um and so that's where you know when I um and so that's where you know when I um and so that's where you know when I was hearing so much feedback to the was hearing so much feedback to the was hearing so much feedback to the first book on hey this is helpful would first book on hey this is helpful would first book on hey this is helpful would you do something specifically for you do something specifically for you do something specifically for pastors and lay leaders and it could pastors and lay leaders and it could pastors and lay leaders and it could even apply to parents so I think a even apply to parents so I think a even apply to parents so I think a parenting social media book would have parenting social media book would have parenting social media book would have its own flavor that and that's this is its own flavor that and that's this is its own flavor that and that's this is not that not that not that um and so I said yeah I think you're I um and so I said yeah I think you're I um and so I said yeah I think you're I think you I I was always in dialogue think you I I was always in dialogue think you I I was always in dialogue with a dozen or so pastors as I was with a dozen or so pastors as I was with a dozen or so pastors as I was writing this book and even in the writing this book and even in the writing this book and even in the preparation stages who were like yeah preparation stages who were like yeah preparation stages who were like yeah this is a big need we could really use this is a big need we could really use this is a big need we could really use something and so I mean I I sent out a something and so I mean I I sent out a something and so I mean I I sent out a form to a bunch of pastors before I even form to a bunch of pastors before I even form to a bunch of pastors before I even started writing of like if I were to started writing of like if I were to started writing of like if I were to write a book like this what topics and write a book like this what topics and write a book like this what topics and themes do you think would be necessary themes do you think would be necessary themes do you think would be necessary and it was fascinating to get some and it was fascinating to get some and it was fascinating to get some feedback on that because not if it was feedback on that because not if it was feedback on that because not if it was like oh wow I hadn't thought of that but like oh wow I hadn't thought of that but like oh wow I hadn't thought of that but it was like okay definitely need to it was like okay definitely need to it was like okay definitely need to include that chapter because it was in include that chapter because it was in include that chapter because it was in my mind and six people said that it my mind and six people said that it my mind and six people said that it should be included and so the the table should be included and so the the table should be included and so the the table of contents which is 13 general areas of of contents which is 13 general areas of of contents which is 13 general areas of life that social media May kind of be life that social media May kind of be life that social media May kind of be threatening and poisoning in the lives threatening and poisoning in the lives threatening and poisoning in the lives of people of people of people um was really born out of a lot of um was really born out of a lot of um was really born out of a lot of conversations with pastors and and lay conversations with pastors and and lay conversations with pastors and and lay church leaders who see social media church leaders who see social media church leaders who see social media changing uh and discipling frankly the

changing uh and discipling frankly the changing uh and discipling frankly the people that they love and want to people that they love and want to people that they love and want to disciple and so disciple and so disciple and so um that's how it kind of came about and um that's how it kind of came about and um that's how it kind of came about and so who's yeah who's it for very plainly so who's yeah who's it for very plainly so who's yeah who's it for very plainly is if you are influencing or leading is if you are influencing or leading is if you are influencing or leading people in any capacity naturally pastors people in any capacity naturally pastors people in any capacity naturally pastors fall into that category fall into that category fall into that category um community group leaders and you know um community group leaders and you know um community group leaders and you know lay church leaders but then also like I lay church leaders but then also like I lay church leaders but then also like I think parents can uh benefit from this think parents can uh benefit from this think parents can uh benefit from this um there are a couple of parenting um there are a couple of parenting um there are a couple of parenting specific examples but um while I while I specific examples but um while I while I specific examples but um while I while I think it would be appropriate perhaps think it would be appropriate perhaps think it would be appropriate perhaps for another book to be written on for another book to be written on for another book to be written on parenting and social media this isn't parenting and social media this isn't parenting and social media this isn't that I do think it's probably probably that I do think it's probably probably that I do think it's probably probably seventy percent helpful seventy percent helpful seventy percent helpful um in that in that regard um so so yeah um in that in that regard um so so yeah um in that in that regard um so so yeah that's that's a bit of that and we can that's that's a bit of that and we can that's that's a bit of that and we can get to the stage unless you want to have get to the stage unless you want to have get to the stage unless you want to have a follow-up no well yeah then I want you a follow-up no well yeah then I want you a follow-up no well yeah then I want you to explain like break down how you to explain like break down how you to explain like break down how you actually structure these each pair are actually structure these each pair are actually structure these each pair are each chapter because I think that's each chapter because I think that's each chapter because I think that's that's really insightful yeah yeah yeah that's really insightful yeah yeah yeah that's really insightful yeah yeah yeah so Bart noticed this and he said it so Bart noticed this and he said it so Bart noticed this and he said it we're kind of pre-show discussion and we're kind of pre-show discussion and we're kind of pre-show discussion and it's not you know I think a lot of it's not you know I think a lot of it's not you know I think a lot of authors do this but they don't really authors do this but they don't really authors do this but they don't really talk about it and so it's always fun talk about it and so it's always fun talk about it and so it's always fun when a reader picks up on it if I'm I'm when a reader picks up on it if I'm I'm when a reader picks up on it if I'm I'm I consider myself a pretty efficient I consider myself a pretty efficient I consider myself a pretty efficient writer I shouldn't say that I know that writer I shouldn't say that I know that writer I shouldn't say that I know that I'm pretty efficient right I don't want I'm pretty efficient right I don't want I'm pretty efficient right I don't want to have some sort of false humility like to have some sort of false humility like to have some sort of false humility like um I have other friends who are um I have other friends who are um I have other friends who are professional writers like authors who professional writers like authors who professional writers like authors who say that I am one of the most efficient say that I am one of the most efficient say that I am one of the most efficient writers that they know writers that they know writers that they know um so like I can write a 5 000 word book um so like I can write a 5 000 word book um so like I can write a 5 000 word book chapter in like three hours no problem chapter in like three hours no problem chapter in like three hours no problem so like I'm a pretty efficient author so like I'm a pretty efficient author so like I'm a pretty efficient author and the reason I'm able like one of the and the reason I'm able like one of the and the reason I'm able like one of the ingredients of my efficiency is ingredients of my efficiency is ingredients of my efficiency is um I don't like to mess with the um I don't like to mess with the um I don't like to mess with the structure of a chapter so we're getting

structure of a chapter so we're getting structure of a chapter so we're getting a little bit like inside baseball on a little bit like inside baseball on a little bit like inside baseball on writing it for a second but for for a writing it for a second but for for a writing it for a second but for for a book that isn't meant to be hyper book that isn't meant to be hyper book that isn't meant to be hyper creative or artsy or something you know creative or artsy or something you know creative or artsy or something you know like the stuff I'm doing that's just like the stuff I'm doing that's just like the stuff I'm doing that's just practical get the information out there practical get the information out there practical get the information out there and let people use it however they see and let people use it however they see and let people use it however they see fit is I want to find a skeleton I want fit is I want to find a skeleton I want fit is I want to find a skeleton I want to find a formula that's kind of the to find a formula that's kind of the to find a formula that's kind of the same for every chapter and then just use same for every chapter and then just use same for every chapter and then just use that same formula the whole time that same formula the whole time that same formula the whole time um because I think the reader um because I think the reader um because I think the reader appreciates that because there's a appreciates that because there's a appreciates that because there's a there's a rhythm and like a if there's a there's a rhythm and like a if there's a there's a rhythm and like a if there's a part that they don't find helpful in part that they don't find helpful in part that they don't find helpful in each chapter they can just skip it each chapter they can just skip it each chapter they can just skip it that's fine I'm not offended that's fine I'm not offended that's fine I'm not offended um and so if if the reader can identify um and so if if the reader can identify um and so if if the reader can identify the Rhythm then they can sort of like the Rhythm then they can sort of like the Rhythm then they can sort of like skim around and bounce around to what's skim around and bounce around to what's skim around and bounce around to what's most helpful and as a writer it's most helpful and as a writer it's most helpful and as a writer it's helpful to me because I'm not going into helpful to me because I'm not going into helpful to me because I'm not going into into each chapter thinking oh man how am into each chapter thinking oh man how am into each chapter thinking oh man how am I going to structure this chapter it's I going to structure this chapter it's I going to structure this chapter it's like no I'm going to say problem what like no I'm going to say problem what like no I'm going to say problem what does Scripture say what do we do about does Scripture say what do we do about does Scripture say what do we do about that so to get into the specifics that so to get into the specifics that so to get into the specifics virtually every chapter except actually virtually every chapter except actually virtually every chapter except actually we could talk about this if we want but we could talk about this if we want but we could talk about this if we want but we don't have to the first one does not we don't have to the first one does not we don't have to the first one does not follow this formula and there's a reason follow this formula and there's a reason follow this formula and there's a reason for that for that for that um but all 12 of other chapters not um but all 12 of other chapters not um but all 12 of other chapters not including the intro and epilogue follow including the intro and epilogue follow including the intro and epilogue follow the same formula of hey here's a little the same formula of hey here's a little the same formula of hey here's a little illustration of what social media is illustration of what social media is illustration of what social media is doing to us in this realm and why that's doing to us in this realm and why that's doing to us in this realm and why that's a problem here's what scripture says a problem here's what scripture says a problem here's what scripture says about why that's not good about why that's not good about why that's not good um and then third the third part if you um and then third the third part if you um and then third the third part if you will is uh here's what we as leaders and will is uh here's what we as leaders and will is uh here's what we as leaders and parents and pastors can do to push back parents and pastors can do to push back parents and pastors can do to push back against this sort of malformation that against this sort of malformation that against this sort of malformation that social media is bringing upon the people

social media is bringing upon the people social media is bringing upon the people that we love so problem scripture that we love so problem scripture that we love so problem scripture practical response the first chapter practical response the first chapter practical response the first chapter isn't that way uh because it was part of isn't that way uh because it was part of isn't that way uh because it was part of my proposal and I hadn't settled on a my proposal and I hadn't settled on a my proposal and I hadn't settled on a formula yet and so I the first chapter formula yet and so I the first chapter formula yet and so I the first chapter was good enough and we all liked it that was good enough and we all liked it that was good enough and we all liked it that I was like well I'm not going to go back I was like well I'm not going to go back I was like well I'm not going to go back and shoehorn it into my formula because and shoehorn it into my formula because and shoehorn it into my formula because it's already written for the proposal so it's already written for the proposal so it's already written for the proposal so the first one diverges but then the rest the first one diverges but then the rest the first one diverges but then the rest of it hops right into that formula there of it hops right into that formula there of it hops right into that formula there you go you got you got the Insight scoop you go you got you got the Insight scoop you go you got you got the Insight scoop now yeah right mind Chris yes now yeah right mind Chris yes now yeah right mind Chris yes hey Chris let's let's talk a little bit hey Chris let's let's talk a little bit hey Chris let's let's talk a little bit about uh some of the problems that you about uh some of the problems that you about uh some of the problems that you cite some of the things that people are cite some of the things that people are cite some of the things that people are being discipled in a less than helpful being discipled in a less than helpful being discipled in a less than helpful way one of the things that I noted is is way one of the things that I noted is is way one of the things that I noted is is that you you did some research in that you you did some research in that you you did some research in preparing to write the book and you preparing to write the book and you preparing to write the book and you asked pastors how they believe social asked pastors how they believe social asked pastors how they believe social media has affected their church members media has affected their church members media has affected their church members share a little bit about what you share a little bit about what you share a little bit about what you learned and some of the key things that learned and some of the key things that learned and some of the key things that you came from from that information and you came from from that information and you came from from that information and what kind of stuff made it into the book what kind of stuff made it into the book what kind of stuff made it into the book based on that information yeah uh good question yeah uh good question um um um so I'm not going to remember all of the so I'm not going to remember all of the so I'm not going to remember all of the responses obviously because like I said responses obviously because like I said responses obviously because like I said I was talking to pastors throughout at I was talking to pastors throughout at I was talking to pastors throughout at the beginning it was kind of it almost the beginning it was kind of it almost the beginning it was kind of it almost went down over time like the number like went down over time like the number like went down over time like the number like I talked to I sent out a big old survey I talked to I sent out a big old survey I talked to I sent out a big old survey at the beginning I forget how many to at the beginning I forget how many to at the beginning I forget how many to kind of gauge General topics and then as kind of gauge General topics and then as kind of gauge General topics and then as I moved on you know just because of time I moved on you know just because of time I moved on you know just because of time and such I kind of whittled down to and such I kind of whittled down to and such I kind of whittled down to about a dozen or so pastors that I was about a dozen or so pastors that I was about a dozen or so pastors that I was emailing like I emailed the first draft

emailing like I emailed the first draft emailing like I emailed the first draft of the book too and stuff like that of the book too and stuff like that of the book too and stuff like that um counselors as well like Christian um counselors as well like Christian um counselors as well like Christian counselors because dealing with some counselors because dealing with some counselors because dealing with some anxiety like the uh the chat room anxiety like the uh the chat room anxiety like the uh the chat room anxiety I wanted to have like counselors anxiety I wanted to have like counselors anxiety I wanted to have like counselors eyes on and stuff like that so eyes on and stuff like that so eyes on and stuff like that so um um um the the the without oversimplifying but without also without oversimplifying but without also without oversimplifying but without also listing everything the most common so listing everything the most common so listing everything the most common so I'll say this first I'll say this first I'll say this first every single person every single person every single person who responded to my survey whichever one who responded to my survey whichever one who responded to my survey whichever one it was about topics that should be it was about topics that should be it was about topics that should be included included included I think it was all of them 100 percent I think it was all of them 100 percent I think it was all of them 100 percent said that said that said that conspiracy theories need to be talked conspiracy theories need to be talked conspiracy theories need to be talked about in this book they may Merit their about in this book they may Merit their about in this book they may Merit their own chapter or just a significant own chapter or just a significant own chapter or just a significant portion of a chapter portion of a chapter portion of a chapter but but but like everyone I asked and then I asked like everyone I asked and then I asked like everyone I asked and then I asked them to kind of elaborate or tell a them to kind of elaborate or tell a them to kind of elaborate or tell a story that was Anonymous you know I story that was Anonymous you know I story that was Anonymous you know I wouldn't use the details but I may use wouldn't use the details but I may use wouldn't use the details but I may use generally their story in the book and generally their story in the book and generally their story in the book and there are a few of those in the book there are a few of those in the book there are a few of those in the book um of like why why this issue is um of like why why this issue is um of like why why this issue is important to you important to you important to you and for the uh topic of conspiracy and for the uh topic of conspiracy and for the uh topic of conspiracy theories just theories just theories just story after story if I could make like a story after story if I could make like a story after story if I could make like a mesh image of all of them like fuse them mesh image of all of them like fuse them mesh image of all of them like fuse them all together it's hey I'm a pastor uh all together it's hey I'm a pastor uh all together it's hey I'm a pastor uh I've been pastoring for a long time I've been pastoring for a long time I've been pastoring for a long time maybe have one or two people a year come maybe have one or two people a year come maybe have one or two people a year come up to me after a sermon and bring up up to me after a sermon and bring up up to me after a sermon and bring up some wild either theological or some wild either theological or some wild either theological or current event conspiracy theory slash current event conspiracy theory slash current event conspiracy theory slash wacky Theory to me whether again whether wacky Theory to me whether again whether wacky Theory to me whether again whether theological or world event you know theological or world event you know theological or world event you know usually surrounding the end of the Earth usually surrounding the end of the Earth usually surrounding the end of the Earth or the Antichrist or something like that

or the Antichrist or something like that or the Antichrist or something like that um they said you know I used to have one um they said you know I used to have one um they said you know I used to have one or two people a year or so come up to me or two people a year or so come up to me or two people a year or so come up to me and do that kind of thing and do that kind of thing and do that kind of thing um but they said in the last three or um but they said in the last three or um but they said in the last three or four years they were having like four years they were having like four years they were having like multiple a week come up to them multiple a week come up to them multiple a week come up to them um with like did you hear about that why um with like did you hear about that why um with like did you hear about that why didn't you mention this are you are you didn't you mention this are you are you didn't you mention this are you are you afraid to talk about this are they going afraid to talk about this are they going afraid to talk about this are they going to come get you if you talk about this to come get you if you talk about this to come get you if you talk about this and pastors and pastors and pastors feel I I kind of had a sense that this feel I I kind of had a sense that this feel I I kind of had a sense that this was the case because again I pay was the case because again I pay was the case because again I pay attention to internet culture and I know attention to internet culture and I know attention to internet culture and I know how prevalent like conspiracy theories how prevalent like conspiracy theories how prevalent like conspiracy theories are which that's a loaded term and I'm are which that's a loaded term and I'm are which that's a loaded term and I'm let me say that I'm not trying to like let me say that I'm not trying to like let me say that I'm not trying to like I'm not um trying to like poke fun at I'm not um trying to like poke fun at I'm not um trying to like poke fun at conspiracy theories or stuff like that conspiracy theories or stuff like that conspiracy theories or stuff like that conspiracy theories plainly are just conspiracy theories plainly are just conspiracy theories plainly are just theories of conspiracy theories of conspiracy theories of conspiracy um whether or not they're true some of um whether or not they're true some of um whether or not they're true some of them and may end up panning out to be them and may end up panning out to be them and may end up panning out to be true the point is they're theories about true the point is they're theories about true the point is they're theories about people who are uh creating you know people who are uh creating you know people who are uh creating you know sewing Discord and that sort of thing so sewing Discord and that sort of thing so sewing Discord and that sort of thing so there are plenty of those around any there are plenty of those around any there are plenty of those around any number of world events that have come up number of world events that have come up number of world events that have come up in the last few years and whether or not in the last few years and whether or not in the last few years and whether or not you find yourself agreeing with them we you find yourself agreeing with them we you find yourself agreeing with them we should all maybe agree that pastors should all maybe agree that pastors should all maybe agree that pastors probably shouldn't be uh haranged at the probably shouldn't be uh haranged at the probably shouldn't be uh haranged at the end of sermons to like hey why didn't end of sermons to like hey why didn't end of sermons to like hey why didn't you bring up my pet thing you bring up my pet thing you bring up my pet thing um whatever that is and the general um whatever that is and the general um whatever that is and the general consensus I was getting from well over a consensus I was getting from well over a consensus I was getting from well over a dozen pastors was this is happening dozen pastors was this is happening dozen pastors was this is happening exponentially more than it ever has and exponentially more than it ever has and exponentially more than it ever has and it yeah it's a kind of annoying but B it it yeah it's a kind of annoying but B it it yeah it's a kind of annoying but B it also really troubles me for like the also really troubles me for like the also really troubles me for like the people in my congregation where are they people in my congregation where are they people in my congregation where are they getting the stuff clearly like they're

getting the stuff clearly like they're getting the stuff clearly like they're being discipled by social media so that being discipled by social media so that being discipled by social media so that was the most common by far was the most common by far was the most common by far um and then after that matters of um and then after that matters of um and then after that matters of anxiety anxiety anxiety um especially among like youth ministers um especially among like youth ministers um especially among like youth ministers that I spoke with the stats reflect that that I spoke with the stats reflect that that I spoke with the stats reflect that regarding teenagers and anxiety and regarding teenagers and anxiety and regarding teenagers and anxiety and social media use especially among social media use especially among social media use especially among teenage girls which we may have talked teenage girls which we may have talked teenage girls which we may have talked about before about before about before um and Authority was another big one I'm um and Authority was another big one I'm um and Authority was another big one I'm just looking at the table of contents just looking at the table of contents just looking at the table of contents like this kind of goes hand in hand with like this kind of goes hand in hand with like this kind of goes hand in hand with the conspiracy theorist thing but like the conspiracy theorist thing but like the conspiracy theorist thing but like pastors reported to me of just like pastors reported to me of just like pastors reported to me of just like getting challenged by church members in getting challenged by church members in getting challenged by church members in like some really antagonistic ways that like some really antagonistic ways that like some really antagonistic ways that they had never really had to deal with they had never really had to deal with they had never really had to deal with before before before um basically their Theory and I agree um basically their Theory and I agree um basically their Theory and I agree with their theory is that social media with their theory is that social media with their theory is that social media has made it such that like Authority has made it such that like Authority has made it such that like Authority doesn't matter and anybody can make doesn't matter and anybody can make doesn't matter and anybody can make noise about anything and you know like noise about anything and you know like noise about anything and you know like whether that's like cancel culture or whether that's like cancel culture or whether that's like cancel culture or whatever like if you make enough noise whatever like if you make enough noise whatever like if you make enough noise that we're angry about that we're angry about that we're angry about situation A and you should suffer situation A and you should suffer situation A and you should suffer because of that because of that because of that um pastors are feeling that too um pastors are feeling that too um pastors are feeling that too basically they they feel the ones I basically they they feel the ones I basically they they feel the ones I spoke with spoke with spoke with like maybe their people are being like maybe their people are being like maybe their people are being emboldened by social media that if you emboldened by social media that if you emboldened by social media that if you just get angry enough or get enough just get angry enough or get enough just get angry enough or get enough people with their torches and pitchforks people with their torches and pitchforks people with their torches and pitchforks you can run somebody out I mean look you can run somebody out I mean look you can run somebody out I mean look this isn't new to church this kind of this isn't new to church this kind of this isn't new to church this kind of thing has happened for a while thing has happened for a while thing has happened for a while um but but what the pastors were saying um but but what the pastors were saying um but but what the pastors were saying was like they feel like it's like the was like they feel like it's like the was like they feel like it's like the volume's just been turned up on it like volume's just been turned up on it like volume's just been turned up on it like right like the intensity and the right like the intensity and the right like the intensity and the frequency as being like they're having frequency as being like they're having frequency as being like they're having to deal with problem church members that to deal with problem church members that to deal with problem church members that had never shown any sign of being that

had never shown any sign of being that had never shown any sign of being that way before and so a lot of it was just way before and so a lot of it was just way before and so a lot of it was just generally conflict I mean there's not a generally conflict I mean there's not a generally conflict I mean there's not a conflict specific chapter there is like conflict specific chapter there is like conflict specific chapter there is like a live peaceably chapter but like a live peaceably chapter but like a live peaceably chapter but like generally speaking all of them were generally speaking all of them were generally speaking all of them were falling in that sort of Realm I I one of falling in that sort of Realm I I one of falling in that sort of Realm I I one of the things that stood out to me in one the things that stood out to me in one the things that stood out to me in one of one of the the chapters and I I can't of one of the the chapters and I I can't of one of the the chapters and I I can't remember which one remember which one remember which one um well you talked about uh pastors um well you talked about uh pastors um well you talked about uh pastors citing people I think this kind of goes citing people I think this kind of goes citing people I think this kind of goes to the conspiracy theories people buying to the conspiracy theories people buying to the conspiracy theories people buying into misinformation and disinformation into misinformation and disinformation into misinformation and disinformation and and we we know we've seen you know and and we we know we've seen you know and and we we know we've seen you know the whole fake news thing on the the whole fake news thing on the the whole fake news thing on the internet uh Christians are not the only internet uh Christians are not the only internet uh Christians are not the only people who fall for fake news so let's people who fall for fake news so let's people who fall for fake news so let's be clear on that but pastors have a be clear on that but pastors have a be clear on that but pastors have a direct responsibility to Shepherd the direct responsibility to Shepherd the direct responsibility to Shepherd the people in their congregation people in their congregation people in their congregation um and help them discover truth right uh um and help them discover truth right uh um and help them discover truth right uh truth I heard somebody say this maybe truth I heard somebody say this maybe truth I heard somebody say this maybe this is in your book or maybe I heard this is in your book or maybe I heard this is in your book or maybe I heard somebody else say this that truth is somebody else say this that truth is somebody else say this that truth is stubborn and some way somehow the truth stubborn and some way somehow the truth stubborn and some way somehow the truth will always somehow come out but will always somehow come out but will always somehow come out but sometimes there's a whole lot of mud sometimes there's a whole lot of mud sometimes there's a whole lot of mud that you have to weed through uh in that you have to weed through uh in that you have to weed through uh in order to get to that truth and you know order to get to that truth and you know order to get to that truth and you know just to give a practical example for just to give a practical example for just to give a practical example for those that are listening who might be those that are listening who might be those that are listening who might be passed officers or church leaders you passed officers or church leaders you passed officers or church leaders you know one of the things in that section know one of the things in that section know one of the things in that section of the book that you talked about of the book that you talked about of the book that you talked about misinformation and disinformation you misinformation and disinformation you misinformation and disinformation you know you focus on the fact that as know you focus on the fact that as know you focus on the fact that as Believers we are to focus in on truth Believers we are to focus in on truth Believers we are to focus in on truth and how does a pastor Shepherd their and how does a pastor Shepherd their and how does a pastor Shepherd their congregation to focus on that well your congregation to focus on that well your congregation to focus on that well your advice very simply put is to actually

advice very simply put is to actually advice very simply put is to actually model and encourage more reading of the model and encourage more reading of the model and encourage more reading of the Bible and other sound books that fuel Bible and other sound books that fuel Bible and other sound books that fuel Truth Versus that misinformation or that Truth Versus that misinformation or that Truth Versus that misinformation or that disinformation right creating a culture disinformation right creating a culture disinformation right creating a culture in your church where people actually in your church where people actually in your church where people actually value spending time in God's word and in value spending time in God's word and in value spending time in God's word and in things that support God's word versus things that support God's word versus things that support God's word versus spending more time on the social spending more time on the social spending more time on the social internet and the things that are internet and the things that are internet and the things that are actually fueling just the opposite of actually fueling just the opposite of actually fueling just the opposite of that that's at least that was my that that's at least that was my that that's at least that was my takeaway did I interpret your chapter takeaway did I interpret your chapter takeaway did I interpret your chapter properly yeah yeah and it's not and I properly yeah yeah and it's not and I properly yeah yeah and it's not and I think I I maybe say this once or twice think I I maybe say this once or twice think I I maybe say this once or twice in the book but I like I I think I only in the book but I like I I think I only in the book but I like I I think I only did it once or twice because you could did it once or twice because you could did it once or twice because you could say this throughout is like none of say this throughout is like none of say this throughout is like none of these things are silver bullets so if these things are silver bullets so if these things are silver bullets so if you're looking for a silver bullets any you're looking for a silver bullets any you're looking for a silver bullets any of these things you've found the wrong of these things you've found the wrong of these things you've found the wrong book and I apologize guys good luck book and I apologize guys good luck book and I apologize guys good luck finding one that has that finding one that has that finding one that has that um but like yeah I think um but like yeah I think um but like yeah I think I've been a part of a couple churches I've been a part of a couple churches I've been a part of a couple churches now that have a really robust reading now that have a really robust reading now that have a really robust reading culture as maybe what I call it and and culture as maybe what I call it and and culture as maybe what I call it and and if not what I call it what I should have if not what I call it what I should have if not what I call it what I should have called it like a culture that values called it like a culture that values called it like a culture that values being well read and I mean like what being well read and I mean like what being well read and I mean like what that looks like is I've been a part of that looks like is I've been a part of that looks like is I've been a part of churches that literally have like book churches that literally have like book churches that literally have like book clubs these aren't Bible studies clubs these aren't Bible studies clubs these aren't Bible studies um sometimes they could take place in um sometimes they could take place in um sometimes they could take place in like a Sunday school setting or whatever like a Sunday school setting or whatever like a Sunday school setting or whatever where like and they don't even always where like and they don't even always where like and they don't even always need to be Christian books like maybe need to be Christian books like maybe need to be Christian books like maybe you just read a really helpful book you just read a really helpful book you just read a really helpful book about that has like good cultural about that has like good cultural about that has like good cultural analysis or helps you you have some good analysis or helps you you have some good analysis or helps you you have some good research in it about research in it about research in it about um you know like how how like I think I um you know like how how like I think I um you know like how how like I think I forget I was just thinking of a title forget I was just thinking of a title forget I was just thinking of a title there's like a good study a book that there's like a good study a book that there's like a good study a book that has a ton of studies in it about like has a ton of studies in it about like has a ton of studies in it about like how Boyhood is kind of going away I how Boyhood is kind of going away I how Boyhood is kind of going away I remember reading that with some friends remember reading that with some friends remember reading that with some friends from church and like how helpful and from church and like how helpful and from church and like how helpful and interesting that was like how what do we

interesting that was like how what do we interesting that was like how what do we think about boys becoming men and how's think about boys becoming men and how's think about boys becoming men and how's that changing and and so like that changing and and so like that changing and and so like um I I've always found that if you can um I I've always found that if you can um I I've always found that if you can create a reading culture in your church create a reading culture in your church create a reading culture in your church um where like Hey we're gonna we're um where like Hey we're gonna we're um where like Hey we're gonna we're gonna commit to each other to spend gonna commit to each other to spend gonna commit to each other to spend maybe a little bit more time in slower maybe a little bit more time in slower maybe a little bit more time in slower media like books rather than just going media like books rather than just going media like books rather than just going with the flow and always be scrolling with the flow and always be scrolling with the flow and always be scrolling um then I think that can go a long way um then I think that can go a long way um then I think that can go a long way toward becoming more wise consumers of toward becoming more wise consumers of toward becoming more wise consumers of media because that's like look I use media because that's like look I use media because that's like look I use tick tock uh some people might tick tock uh some people might tick tock uh some people might immediately turn off this podcast immediately turn off this podcast immediately turn off this podcast because they heard I use Tick Tock but because they heard I use Tick Tock but because they heard I use Tick Tock but like it's my favorite social media like it's my favorite social media like it's my favorite social media absence Vine because it embodies the absence Vine because it embodies the absence Vine because it embodies the spirit of Vine so well and Vine is my spirit of Vine so well and Vine is my spirit of Vine so well and Vine is my favorite social media app ever favorite social media app ever favorite social media app ever um but like short form video and like um but like short form video and like um but like short form video and like the kinds of especially like the kinds the kinds of especially like the kinds the kinds of especially like the kinds of Comedy that you can do in like a 30 of Comedy that you can do in like a 30 of Comedy that you can do in like a 30 second video on the Internet is just second video on the Internet is just second video on the Internet is just it's my favorite I love it so much it's my favorite I love it so much it's my favorite I love it so much um but if you aren't careful if you just um but if you aren't careful if you just um but if you aren't careful if you just go with the flow and that's what so much go with the flow and that's what so much go with the flow and that's what so much of this book and my other one were about of this book and my other one were about of this book and my other one were about is like if you just aren't intentional is like if you just aren't intentional is like if you just aren't intentional and you just go with the flow you can and you just go with the flow you can and you just go with the flow you can end up scrolling past either Instagram end up scrolling past either Instagram end up scrolling past either Instagram reels or tick tocks or YouTube videos reels or tick tocks or YouTube videos reels or tick tocks or YouTube videos that start bending toward a sort of that start bending toward a sort of that start bending toward a sort of ideological bent that can go quickly ideological bent that can go quickly ideological bent that can go quickly into miss or disinformation and if you into miss or disinformation and if you into miss or disinformation and if you aren't thinking and you're just riding aren't thinking and you're just riding aren't thinking and you're just riding the waves you can end up in a really bad the waves you can end up in a really bad the waves you can end up in a really bad place really quickly and place really quickly and place really quickly and the way social this is part of what the way social this is part of what the way social this is part of what makes social media so inherently makes social media so inherently makes social media so inherently Insidious now I do think it can be used Insidious now I do think it can be used Insidious now I do think it can be used for good and we I think we've talked for good and we I think we've talked for good and we I think we've talked about that before and we certainly can

about that before and we certainly can about that before and we certainly can again hear if if anybody's concerned I again hear if if anybody's concerned I again hear if if anybody's concerned I do think social media can be used for do think social media can be used for do think social media can be used for good but I do think it is inherently good but I do think it is inherently good but I do think it is inherently bent toward bad because it it's part of bent toward bad because it it's part of bent toward bad because it it's part of a sinful world everything is a sinful world everything is a sinful world everything is um is we have to try and and the part of um is we have to try and and the part of um is we have to try and and the part of the problem with how we consume social the problem with how we consume social the problem with how we consume social media is we are not we are simply not media is we are not we are simply not media is we are not we are simply not designed to to consume information as designed to to consume information as designed to to consume information as quickly as we do and I talk about that a quickly as we do and I talk about that a quickly as we do and I talk about that a bit I think in that same chapter where bit I think in that same chapter where bit I think in that same chapter where um part of the reason we fall for Miss um part of the reason we fall for Miss um part of the reason we fall for Miss and disinformation isn't because we're and disinformation isn't because we're and disinformation isn't because we're bad people that want to be led astray bad people that want to be led astray bad people that want to be led astray um part of it could be that but part of um part of it could be that but part of um part of it could be that but part of it is we're consuming content far faster it is we're consuming content far faster it is we're consuming content far faster than we can than we can than we can um validate it and so we scroll past the um validate it and so we scroll past the um validate it and so we scroll past the 15 second Tick Tock about something 15 second Tick Tock about something 15 second Tick Tock about something that's going on in the world that's that's going on in the world that's that's going on in the world that's maybe like sort of conspiracy theory in maybe like sort of conspiracy theory in maybe like sort of conspiracy theory in nature and then we come across a link on nature and then we come across a link on nature and then we come across a link on Twitter that kind of reinforces that Twitter that kind of reinforces that Twitter that kind of reinforces that same thing and we really like oh that's same thing and we really like oh that's same thing and we really like oh that's interesting but we never we're consuming interesting but we never we're consuming interesting but we never we're consuming content so quickly or we're just like in content so quickly or we're just like in content so quickly or we're just like in like going to Golden Corral's buffet and like going to Golden Corral's buffet and like going to Golden Corral's buffet and just stuffing ourselves with food but just stuffing ourselves with food but just stuffing ourselves with food but we're never taking the time to like we're never taking the time to like we're never taking the time to like think about if what we're consuming is think about if what we're consuming is think about if what we're consuming is actually right and so that's I think a actually right and so that's I think a actually right and so that's I think a lot of us become unintentionally lot of us become unintentionally lot of us become unintentionally um um um sort of misdirected by Miss and sort of misdirected by Miss and sort of misdirected by Miss and disinformation rather than being disinformation rather than being disinformation rather than being willfully misdirected though eventually willfully misdirected though eventually willfully misdirected though eventually we what then compounds this is how it we what then compounds this is how it we what then compounds this is how it can get so nasty is it compounds that we can get so nasty is it compounds that we can get so nasty is it compounds that we don't want to be wrong we we're so don't want to be wrong we we're so don't want to be wrong we we're so prideful that we don't want to admit prideful that we don't want to admit prideful that we don't want to admit that we're wrong in our thinking and so that we're wrong in our thinking and so that we're wrong in our thinking and so we just keep kind of spiraling into this we just keep kind of spiraling into this we just keep kind of spiraling into this into this mindset so yeah it seems like

into this mindset so yeah it seems like into this mindset so yeah it seems like to my in my mind when when hearing you to my in my mind when when hearing you to my in my mind when when hearing you talk about that it's it's also a an talk about that it's it's also a an talk about that it's it's also a an issue of relevancy like when you are issue of relevancy like when you are issue of relevancy like when you are seeing some School Board in somebody in seeing some School Board in somebody in seeing some School Board in somebody in some other state you automate you know some other state you automate you know some other state you automate you know something wrong there you automatically something wrong there you automatically something wrong there you automatically go well I wonder if my school board's go well I wonder if my school board's go well I wonder if my school board's doing that and all of a sudden you go doing that and all of a sudden you go doing that and all of a sudden you go down a trail that you that you wouldn't down a trail that you that you wouldn't down a trail that you that you wouldn't ever go down if you didn't have social ever go down if you didn't have social ever go down if you didn't have social media right and so you allow yourself to media right and so you allow yourself to media right and so you allow yourself to get built you know sucked into that get built you know sucked into that get built you know sucked into that where now that's that's like how does where now that's that's like how does where now that's that's like how does that even how is that relevant to my that even how is that relevant to my that even how is that relevant to my life and I'll tell you the Bible is 100 life and I'll tell you the Bible is 100 life and I'll tell you the Bible is 100 relevant to your life so get sucked into relevant to your life so get sucked into relevant to your life so get sucked into that rather and then what's going on in that rather and then what's going on in that rather and then what's going on in some school board or any kind of issue some school board or any kind of issue some school board or any kind of issue you want to talk about I'm sure you you want to talk about I'm sure you you want to talk about I'm sure you would you address that as well yeah it's would you address that as well yeah it's would you address that as well yeah it's really easy for us to get caught up in really easy for us to get caught up in really easy for us to get caught up in things that simply don't matter but we things that simply don't matter but we things that simply don't matter but we think they do because everybody's think they do because everybody's think they do because everybody's talking about them online right um when talking about them online right um when talking about them online right um when really the best thing for us to do would really the best thing for us to do would really the best thing for us to do would be to just like keep our head down and be to just like keep our head down and be to just like keep our head down and like Yeah by all means like invest in like Yeah by all means like invest in like Yeah by all means like invest in your community and pay attention but your community and pay attention but your community and pay attention but just because there's some wacky thing just because there's some wacky thing just because there's some wacky thing happening at some School Board in happening at some School Board in happening at some School Board in Florida it doesn't mean it's going to be Florida it doesn't mean it's going to be Florida it doesn't mean it's going to be happening in yours and you've got to get happening in yours and you've got to get happening in yours and you've got to get all like Vigilant and like no you're all like Vigilant and like no you're all like Vigilant and like no you're just caring about something that like just caring about something that like just caring about something that like you just like feeling something in this you just like feeling something in this you just like feeling something in this case it's feeling mad and it's more case it's feeling mad and it's more case it's feeling mad and it's more interesting than the boring faithfulness interesting than the boring faithfulness interesting than the boring faithfulness of reading scripture or even just of reading scripture or even just of reading scripture or even just reading a book that causes you to slow reading a book that causes you to slow reading a book that causes you to slow down a little bit yeah and I think if down a little bit yeah and I think if down a little bit yeah and I think if I'm leading somebody and I catch on to I'm leading somebody and I catch on to I'm leading somebody and I catch on to that it's an opportunity to you know to that it's an opportunity to you know to that it's an opportunity to you know to have some nuggets to share with them to have some nuggets to share with them to have some nuggets to share with them to say hey don't don't get sucked up into

say hey don't don't get sucked up into say hey don't don't get sucked up into that that's that's a dead end it's that that's that's a dead end it's that that's that's a dead end it's Darkness right instead what you're Darkness right instead what you're Darkness right instead what you're saying is saying is saying is get sucked up in the light in the truth get sucked up in the light in the truth get sucked up in the light in the truth that's actually gonna that's actually gonna that's actually gonna be fuel for your body your mind your be fuel for your body your mind your be fuel for your body your mind your soul and not not this right soul and not not this right soul and not not this right yeah Chris I'm gonna backtrack to yeah Chris I'm gonna backtrack to yeah Chris I'm gonna backtrack to something that you said earlier uh you something that you said earlier uh you something that you said earlier uh you talked a little bit about Authority and talked a little bit about Authority and talked a little bit about Authority and what what what um social media the social internet does um social media the social internet does um social media the social internet does in in relation to the way people view in in relation to the way people view in in relation to the way people view Authority Authority Authority um a couple of things that sort of stuck um a couple of things that sort of stuck um a couple of things that sort of stuck out to me in the book and I'll let you out to me in the book and I'll let you out to me in the book and I'll let you let you comment on them one one of them let you comment on them one one of them let you comment on them one one of them was was was um a story that you tell early in the um a story that you tell early in the um a story that you tell early in the book about a lady who shared something book about a lady who shared something book about a lady who shared something on social media and then when her pastor on social media and then when her pastor on social media and then when her pastor reached out to her to talk to her about reached out to her to talk to her about reached out to her to talk to her about it thinking that maybe she needed some it thinking that maybe she needed some it thinking that maybe she needed some encouragement or maybe she needed some encouragement or maybe she needed some encouragement or maybe she needed some help I can't remember the specific help I can't remember the specific help I can't remember the specific details of the of the story details of the of the story details of the of the story um she was offended because her internet um she was offended because her internet um she was offended because her internet World crossed over into her church world World crossed over into her church world World crossed over into her church world and she had never really intended for and she had never really intended for and she had never really intended for that to happen these two different that to happen these two different that to happen these two different personas and I'm bringing that up in personas and I'm bringing that up in personas and I'm bringing that up in this particular context because I think this particular context because I think this particular context because I think that that also plays into the psyche that that also plays into the psyche that that also plays into the psyche that people have as it relates to that people have as it relates to that people have as it relates to Authority and the way the way that they Authority and the way the way that they Authority and the way the way that they view Authority I'm going to quote you view Authority I'm going to quote you view Authority I'm going to quote you from the book you wrote social media from the book you wrote social media from the book you wrote social media gives everyone a voice and creates an gives everyone a voice and creates an gives everyone a voice and creates an illusion that all voices are equal illusion that all voices are equal illusion that all voices are equal and I think that that's true everybody and I think that that's true everybody and I think that that's true everybody gets online and everybody believes that gets online and everybody believes that gets online and everybody believes that the you know the faster they type or the

the you know the faster they type or the the you know the faster they type or the more caps that they use the the more more caps that they use the the more more caps that they use the the more they'll stand out they'll stand out they'll stand out um why don't you talk a little bit about um why don't you talk a little bit about um why don't you talk a little bit about what you see is the Fallout of this what you see is the Fallout of this what you see is the Fallout of this mindset the way that people view mindset the way that people view mindset the way that people view Authority whether that's Church Authority whether that's Church Authority whether that's Church Authority or any Authority and and and Authority or any Authority and and and Authority or any Authority and and and what some of the downfall is and maybe what some of the downfall is and maybe what some of the downfall is and maybe what some of the antidote might be what some of the antidote might be what some of the antidote might be man man man um this could be um this could be um this could be frankly the thing that undermines the frankly the thing that undermines the frankly the thing that undermines the health of local churches far longer than health of local churches far longer than health of local churches far longer than even a specific issue like conspiracy even a specific issue like conspiracy even a specific issue like conspiracy theories I think all of these things are theories I think all of these things are theories I think all of these things are like woven together and they kind of like woven together and they kind of like woven together and they kind of can't be untangled because you know like can't be untangled because you know like can't be untangled because you know like somebody going down some rabbit hole of somebody going down some rabbit hole of somebody going down some rabbit hole of conspiratorial thinking can end up you conspiratorial thinking can end up you conspiratorial thinking can end up you know undermining the authority and so know undermining the authority and so know undermining the authority and so they all like kind of weave together so they all like kind of weave together so they all like kind of weave together so it's hard to separate them but yeah I it's hard to separate them but yeah I it's hard to separate them but yeah I think like we have an authority crisis think like we have an authority crisis think like we have an authority crisis in culture in general today and in some in culture in general today and in some in culture in general today and in some cases like that's kind of good because cases like that's kind of good because cases like that's kind of good because like like like there's probably been a lot of wrongly there's probably been a lot of wrongly there's probably been a lot of wrongly unchecked Authority for a long time you unchecked Authority for a long time you unchecked Authority for a long time you know I think we've seen that play out know I think we've seen that play out know I think we've seen that play out not only in the church space but but not only in the church space but but not only in the church space but but beyond beyond beyond um of like hey maybe we should be um of like hey maybe we should be um of like hey maybe we should be checking people's Authority a little bit checking people's Authority a little bit checking people's Authority a little bit more not necessarily like in a more not necessarily like in a more not necessarily like in a disrespectful way but I can say like hey disrespectful way but I can say like hey disrespectful way but I can say like hey let's hold them hold like leaders let's hold them hold like leaders let's hold them hold like leaders accountable more I think that's good and accountable more I think that's good and accountable more I think that's good and healthy we shouldn't shy away from that healthy we shouldn't shy away from that healthy we shouldn't shy away from that however what can happen however what can happen however what can happen um is we can very quickly um is we can very quickly um is we can very quickly start to see Authority problems start to see Authority problems start to see Authority problems everywhere and or like everywhere and or like everywhere and or like um um um we can start to accuse people of being

we can start to accuse people of being we can start to accuse people of being bad leaders abusive leaders when really bad leaders abusive leaders when really bad leaders abusive leaders when really we just like don't like their style or we just like don't like their style or we just like don't like their style or something like that and I think that's something like that and I think that's something like that and I think that's where like where like where like um this can get really bad really um this can get really bad really um this can get really bad really quickly so like a perfect example I quickly so like a perfect example I quickly so like a perfect example I mentioned this in the book and I'm not mentioned this in the book and I'm not mentioned this in the book and I'm not going to go too deep into it because it going to go too deep into it because it going to go too deep into it because it may even make some people upset may even make some people upset may even make some people upset listening but like when CT did the whole listening but like when CT did the whole listening but like when CT did the whole rise and fall of Mars Hill podcast which rise and fall of Mars Hill podcast which rise and fall of Mars Hill podcast which is a very well done podcast and as one is a very well done podcast and as one is a very well done podcast and as one who is influenced by Pastor Mark who is influenced by Pastor Mark who is influenced by Pastor Mark Driscoll a lot like I resounded with so Driscoll a lot like I resounded with so Driscoll a lot like I resounded with so much of what was going on and the and much of what was going on and the and much of what was going on and the and the stuff that was talked about there the stuff that was talked about there the stuff that was talked about there however however however um I what I saw on the internet just um I what I saw on the internet just um I what I saw on the internet just like anecdotally what I saw was I saw a like anecdotally what I saw was I saw a like anecdotally what I saw was I saw a lot of people like listening to that lot of people like listening to that lot of people like listening to that podcast which was like a helpful sort of podcast which was like a helpful sort of podcast which was like a helpful sort of like hey let's try to avoid problems of like hey let's try to avoid problems of like hey let's try to avoid problems of authority moving forward authority moving forward authority moving forward um whether or not you liked it or um whether or not you liked it or um whether or not you liked it or disliked it it was it was helpful at disliked it it was it was helpful at disliked it it was it was helpful at least on a baseline in that regard least on a baseline in that regard least on a baseline in that regard um however I saw some people kind of um however I saw some people kind of um however I saw some people kind of like like like who would listen to that and then who would listen to that and then who would listen to that and then wrongfully start to like question their wrongfully start to like question their wrongfully start to like question their leaders as though like they were guilty leaders as though like they were guilty leaders as though like they were guilty of the crimes they were listening to of the crimes they were listening to of the crimes they were listening to yeah like the crime the the leadership yeah like the crime the the leadership yeah like the crime the the leadership crimes that they were listening to on crimes that they were listening to on crimes that they were listening to on this podcast and I think we can it's this podcast and I think we can it's this podcast and I think we can it's kind of like the people who get obsessed kind of like the people who get obsessed kind of like the people who get obsessed with murder mystery podcasts and then with murder mystery podcasts and then with murder mystery podcasts and then start like trying to become detectives start like trying to become detectives start like trying to become detectives in their in their town or whatever like in their in their town or whatever like in their in their town or whatever like like I think I think we can start to like I think I think we can start to like I think I think we can start to um we can take this train a little too um we can take this train a little too um we can take this train a little too far where hey yeah let's let's like far where hey yeah let's let's like far where hey yeah let's let's like check Authority let's keep things in check Authority let's keep things in check Authority let's keep things in check like let's make sure that people

check like let's make sure that people check like let's make sure that people aren't just running rampant and abusing aren't just running rampant and abusing aren't just running rampant and abusing their positions of leadership however their positions of leadership however their positions of leadership however like there are more faithful leaders like there are more faithful leaders like there are more faithful leaders than not I think maybe I'm wrong but I than not I think maybe I'm wrong but I than not I think maybe I'm wrong but I think like we should probably not be think like we should probably not be think like we should probably not be holding like every leader in our local holding like every leader in our local holding like every leader in our local Church's feet to the fire just because Church's feet to the fire just because Church's feet to the fire just because they do like one thing we don't like or they do like one thing we don't like or they do like one thing we don't like or one thing they do rubs us the wrong way one thing they do rubs us the wrong way one thing they do rubs us the wrong way it's like hey oh like if you just go to it's like hey oh like if you just go to it's like hey oh like if you just go to them and say hey the way you said that them and say hey the way you said that them and say hey the way you said that really hurt like hurt me I thought that really hurt like hurt me I thought that really hurt like hurt me I thought that was hurtful they'll probably like was hurtful they'll probably like was hurtful they'll probably like apologize for it and say I'll try not to apologize for it and say I'll try not to apologize for it and say I'll try not to do it again but if you like if you like do it again but if you like if you like do it again but if you like if you like you know how could they do this they're you know how could they do this they're you know how could they do this they're an abusive leader I just think it's very an abusive leader I just think it's very an abusive leader I just think it's very easy to become very accusatorial today easy to become very accusatorial today easy to become very accusatorial today because nobody likes Authority because because nobody likes Authority because because nobody likes Authority because the internet has really flattened the internet has really flattened the internet has really flattened everything and I think there's everything and I think there's everything and I think there's tremendous power in that and we should tremendous power in that and we should tremendous power in that and we should be very careful about how we wield it so be very careful about how we wield it so be very careful about how we wield it so those are some general thoughts I think those are some general thoughts I think those are some general thoughts I think I only partially answered your question I only partially answered your question I only partially answered your question but yeah well that's good yeah I was I but yeah well that's good yeah I was I but yeah well that's good yeah I was I was just gonna I mean when you're saying was just gonna I mean when you're saying was just gonna I mean when you're saying that that's a perfect example of what we that that's a perfect example of what we that that's a perfect example of what we of why we let stuff come in and we think of why we let stuff come in and we think of why we let stuff come in and we think how do we apply this to our own how do we apply this to our own how do we apply this to our own situation and and maybe you shouldn't situation and and maybe you shouldn't situation and and maybe you shouldn't and you should always leave lean to the and you should always leave lean to the and you should always leave lean to the holy spirit to guide you in some of that holy spirit to guide you in some of that holy spirit to guide you in some of that thinking right always because he's you thinking right always because he's you thinking right always because he's you know you're not going to be led astray know you're not going to be led astray know you're not going to be led astray but to your point you can't just turn a but to your point you can't just turn a but to your point you can't just turn a blind eye yeah yeah and I think you blind eye yeah yeah and I think you blind eye yeah yeah and I think you asked about maybe uh Bart like Solutions asked about maybe uh Bart like Solutions asked about maybe uh Bart like Solutions um again these aren't I don't see as a um again these aren't I don't see as a um again these aren't I don't see as a silver bullets but like silver bullets but like silver bullets but like um one of the things I say right away as um one of the things I say right away as um one of the things I say right away as like a practical solution for pastors like a practical solution for pastors like a practical solution for pastors and church leaders is assume no one and church leaders is assume no one and church leaders is assume no one trusts you now I don't say that I think

trusts you now I don't say that I think trusts you now I don't say that I think I say this in a book like I don't mean I say this in a book like I don't mean I say this in a book like I don't mean to advise you to be paranoid like don't to advise you to be paranoid like don't to advise you to be paranoid like don't be like ah no one trust me like I have be like ah no one trust me like I have be like ah no one trust me like I have to be defensive all the time not like to be defensive all the time not like to be defensive all the time not like that but like I I think I say this again that but like I I think I say this again that but like I I think I say this again I I say these things and write these I I say these things and write these I I say these things and write these things so many times I forget where what things so many times I forget where what things so many times I forget where what I say where but I say where but I say where but um like imagine if I think of things a um like imagine if I think of things a um like imagine if I think of things a lot on a scale of like zero like lot on a scale of like zero like lot on a scale of like zero like negative three to positive three just negative three to positive three just negative three to positive three just like in life you know like if zero is like in life you know like if zero is like in life you know like if zero is like neutral positive three is like like neutral positive three is like like neutral positive three is like awesome and negative three is awful awesome and negative three is awful awesome and negative three is awful imagine I think a lot of pastors and imagine I think a lot of pastors and imagine I think a lot of pastors and church leaders today assume that when it church leaders today assume that when it church leaders today assume that when it comes to how people in their comes to how people in their comes to how people in their congregation and or their communities congregation and or their communities congregation and or their communities view them regarding like trust in their view them regarding like trust in their view them regarding like trust in their position that like they're at like at position that like they're at like at position that like they're at like at least a positive too like people in our least a positive too like people in our least a positive too like people in our community like me or in our church they community like me or in our church they community like me or in our church they trust me that's why they're here they trust me that's why they're here they trust me that's why they're here they wouldn't be here if they didn't and that wouldn't be here if they didn't and that wouldn't be here if they didn't and that that may be true but that was certainly that may be true but that was certainly that may be true but that was certainly more true I would say like 30 years ago more true I would say like 30 years ago more true I would say like 30 years ago like when churches and Christians were like when churches and Christians were like when churches and Christians were in a lot less scrutiny than maybe they in a lot less scrutiny than maybe they in a lot less scrutiny than maybe they are today are today are today um I think it would be more effective if um I think it would be more effective if um I think it would be more effective if pastors and church leaders operated as pastors and church leaders operated as pastors and church leaders operated as though their trust score was more like a though their trust score was more like a though their trust score was more like a zero or a negative one negative two and zero or a negative one negative two and zero or a negative one negative two and assume that you have to build trust with assume that you have to build trust with assume that you have to build trust with people all the time like you should people all the time like you should people all the time like you should always be filling the Trust Bank if you always be filling the Trust Bank if you always be filling the Trust Bank if you will rather than assuming that it's will rather than assuming that it's will rather than assuming that it's already full to the brim I think that already full to the brim I think that already full to the brim I think that way if you just assume people don't way if you just assume people don't way if you just assume people don't trust you again not to a point of trust you again not to a point of trust you again not to a point of paranoia where like oh I gotta watch my paranoia where like oh I gotta watch my paranoia where like oh I gotta watch my back but more of a like I need to back but more of a like I need to back but more of a like I need to actively build trust actively build trust actively build trust that can go a long way toward getting that can go a long way toward getting that can go a long way toward getting people to trust you because a lot of

people to trust you because a lot of people to trust you because a lot of people even if they grew up in the people even if they grew up in the people even if they grew up in the church might be coming to your church church might be coming to your church church might be coming to your church because the last years they were at had because the last years they were at had because the last years they were at had an awful leadership situation so I think an awful leadership situation so I think an awful leadership situation so I think a lot of pastors would serve themselves a lot of pastors would serve themselves a lot of pastors would serve themselves and ultimately their congregation better and ultimately their congregation better and ultimately their congregation better if they just didn't presume trust and if they just didn't presume trust and if they just didn't presume trust and went in with more of a I'm going to went in with more of a I'm going to went in with more of a I'm going to always be trying to build trust with always be trying to build trust with always be trying to build trust with people rather than acting like I have it people rather than acting like I have it people rather than acting like I have it all the time so that's I I list a couple all the time so that's I I list a couple all the time so that's I I list a couple of other Solutions but that that's just of other Solutions but that that's just of other Solutions but that that's just one possible solution that I think would one possible solution that I think would one possible solution that I think would be effective be effective be effective um okay I'm gonna ask you one last um okay I'm gonna ask you one last um okay I'm gonna ask you one last question and then we're gonna we're question and then we're gonna we're question and then we're gonna we're gonna land the plane and you alluded to gonna land the plane and you alluded to gonna land the plane and you alluded to this earlier because we have talked this earlier because we have talked this earlier because we have talked about in our previous conversations about in our previous conversations about in our previous conversations about how churches can and should be about how churches can and should be about how churches can and should be using the internet and social media in using the internet and social media in using the internet and social media in particular particular particular um in this book you highlight so many um in this book you highlight so many um in this book you highlight so many things that are disruptive to the health things that are disruptive to the health things that are disruptive to the health and the growth of a follower of Jesus and the growth of a follower of Jesus and the growth of a follower of Jesus um how other than reading the book and um how other than reading the book and um how other than reading the book and following everything that you prescribe following everything that you prescribe following everything that you prescribe pastors to do over 13 chapters you know pastors to do over 13 chapters you know pastors to do over 13 chapters you know are we as a church are we doing more are we as a church are we doing more are we as a church are we doing more damage than good by continuing to use damage than good by continuing to use damage than good by continuing to use social media or do you see that there social media or do you see that there social media or do you see that there are constructive and productive ways are constructive and productive ways are constructive and productive ways that we can use social platforms to that we can use social platforms to that we can use social platforms to better disciple people is the internet better disciple people is the internet better disciple people is the internet like it is it something we should be like it is it something we should be like it is it something we should be fighting against should we be advocating fighting against should we be advocating fighting against should we be advocating for uh let me let me give you a little for uh let me let me give you a little for uh let me let me give you a little example I remember in 2020 when the example I remember in 2020 when the example I remember in 2020 when the whole world shut down whole world shut down whole world shut down um I actually had a moment several um I actually had a moment several um I actually had a moment several months into the pandemic where I got a months into the pandemic where I got a months into the pandemic where I got a little bit irritated because every

little bit irritated because every little bit irritated because every single time I went on to social media single time I went on to social media single time I went on to social media all I was seeing was really bad Church all I was seeing was really bad Church all I was seeing was really bad Church stuff being put out online whether it stuff being put out online whether it stuff being put out online whether it was videos live streams social media was videos live streams social media was videos live streams social media content like like like my social media content like like like my social media content like like like my social media feed blew up with church related stuff feed blew up with church related stuff feed blew up with church related stuff because I'm in the church world have because I'm in the church world have because I'm in the church world have lots and lots of friends who are pastors lots and lots of friends who are pastors lots and lots of friends who are pastors are in Ministry and that's just kind of are in Ministry and that's just kind of are in Ministry and that's just kind of the stuff in my feed and I was having a the stuff in my feed and I was having a the stuff in my feed and I was having a conversation with a friend of mine who's conversation with a friend of mine who's conversation with a friend of mine who's a pastor in Florida and I said you know a pastor in Florida and I said you know a pastor in Florida and I said you know I just I'm just sick and tired of going I just I'm just sick and tired of going I just I'm just sick and tired of going on social media and seeing all of this on social media and seeing all of this on social media and seeing all of this church stuff all the time I don't know church stuff all the time I don't know church stuff all the time I don't know what it was about my spirit that day and what it was about my spirit that day and what it was about my spirit that day and he looked at me he goes I think it's he looked at me he goes I think it's he looked at me he goes I think it's awesome it's like Jesus is on the awesome it's like Jesus is on the awesome it's like Jesus is on the internet more than he's ever been on the internet more than he's ever been on the internet more than he's ever been on the internet okay so I walked away from that internet okay so I walked away from that internet okay so I walked away from that conversation somewhat convicted because conversation somewhat convicted because conversation somewhat convicted because he was right it was more Jesus and my he was right it was more Jesus and my he was right it was more Jesus and my social media feed than I'd ever really social media feed than I'd ever really social media feed than I'd ever really seen but what are we as church leaders seen but what are we as church leaders seen but what are we as church leaders as pastors I mean Jason and I you know as pastors I mean Jason and I you know as pastors I mean Jason and I you know we're working with churches every day on we're working with churches every day on we're working with churches every day on how to how to how to leverage their their digital presence leverage their their digital presence leverage their their digital presence and their social media for more and their social media for more and their social media for more effective reach in their Community effective reach in their Community effective reach in their Community evangelism discipleship just give us evangelism discipleship just give us evangelism discipleship just give us some thoughts that you have that might some thoughts that you have that might some thoughts that you have that might be General encouragement or maybe even be General encouragement or maybe even be General encouragement or maybe even some guidelines for churches that are some guidelines for churches that are some guidelines for churches that are trying to navigate this space trying to navigate this space trying to navigate this space yeah that's a great question and so what yeah that's a great question and so what yeah that's a great question and so what I would say is I would say is I would say is um um um it's not uh doing more damage by trying it's not uh doing more damage by trying it's not uh doing more damage by trying to use social media to help people again to use social media to help people again to use social media to help people again I've said this on I think with you guys I've said this on I think with you guys I've said this on I think with you guys in the past and I'll say it here again in the past and I'll say it here again in the past and I'll say it here again just so I'm crystal clear I'm not just so I'm crystal clear I'm not just so I'm crystal clear I'm not anti-social media I've written now two anti-social media I've written now two anti-social media I've written now two books about the the problems with social

books about the the problems with social books about the the problems with social media and our relationship with it not media and our relationship with it not media and our relationship with it not because I think it's all bad but because because I think it's all bad but because because I think it's all bad but because I think we're all pretty well aware of I think we're all pretty well aware of I think we're all pretty well aware of the the goods or the things that we like the the goods or the things that we like the the goods or the things that we like and nobody needs to write about like and nobody needs to write about like and nobody needs to write about like here's what social media is great it's here's what social media is great it's here's what social media is great it's like yeah no we're all pretty aware like yeah no we're all pretty aware like yeah no we're all pretty aware that's why we're on it two and a half that's why we're on it two and a half that's why we're on it two and a half hours a day on average hours a day on average hours a day on average um but the I wrote two books about the um but the I wrote two books about the um but the I wrote two books about the ills because I think we often ignore ills because I think we often ignore ills because I think we often ignore them so a lot of folks will just assume them so a lot of folks will just assume them so a lot of folks will just assume that like I think social media is all that like I think social media is all that like I think social media is all bad think I'm a hypocrite because I use bad think I'm a hypocrite because I use bad think I'm a hypocrite because I use it and I'm like no listen I've said all it and I'm like no listen I've said all it and I'm like no listen I've said all the time I don't think it's all bad I the time I don't think it's all bad I the time I don't think it's all bad I just think it requires us to use it much just think it requires us to use it much just think it requires us to use it much more intentionally than we do we often more intentionally than we do we often more intentionally than we do we often just let social media happen to us just let social media happen to us just let social media happen to us rather than grabbing our relationship rather than grabbing our relationship rather than grabbing our relationship with it by the horns and using it in an with it by the horns and using it in an with it by the horns and using it in an intentional way and so let me let me say intentional way and so let me let me say intentional way and so let me let me say that I I'm not anti at all either that I I'm not anti at all either that I I'm not anti at all either individually or for churches and individually or for churches and individually or for churches and Ministries to be using it I do think it Ministries to be using it I do think it Ministries to be using it I do think it just takes a lot of work to push back just takes a lot of work to push back just takes a lot of work to push back against the the wrong ways that can be against the the wrong ways that can be against the the wrong ways that can be used and we have to work all we have to used and we have to work all we have to used and we have to work all we have to just be vigilant is the best way I know just be vigilant is the best way I know just be vigilant is the best way I know how to describe that just like always be how to describe that just like always be how to describe that just like always be ready to to be pushing back against the ready to to be pushing back against the ready to to be pushing back against the darkness and injecting the light so I darkness and injecting the light so I darkness and injecting the light so I think it can be done I think it's very think it can be done I think it's very think it can be done I think it's very good the the like caution slash good the the like caution slash good the the like caution slash guardrail I would give for a church I guardrail I would give for a church I guardrail I would give for a church I can think of only one off the top of my can think of only one off the top of my can think of only one off the top of my head head head um but it's an important one to me and um but it's an important one to me and um but it's an important one to me and you guys may disagree and that's fine you guys may disagree and that's fine you guys may disagree and that's fine because different people have different because different people have different because different people have different ways about going I don't think this is ways about going I don't think this is ways about going I don't think this is not a it's not like a make or break not a it's not like a make or break not a it's not like a make or break issue for me but it's something that I'm issue for me but it's something that I'm issue for me but it's something that I'm kind of that I care about kind of that I care about kind of that I care about um is that I don't think a church I um is that I don't think a church I um is that I don't think a church I don't think anything a church does on don't think anything a church does on don't think anything a church does on the internet period the internet period the internet period especially on social media should especially on social media should especially on social media should um require someone

um require someone um require someone how do I phrase this I don't think a how do I phrase this I don't think a how do I phrase this I don't think a church should do anything on social church should do anything on social church should do anything on social media that causes a congregate to feel media that causes a congregate to feel media that causes a congregate to feel like they need to be on social media to like they need to be on social media to like they need to be on social media to participate in the life of the local participate in the life of the local participate in the life of the local church so like I can't think of an church so like I can't think of an church so like I can't think of an example what that is there might be some example what that is there might be some example what that is there might be some but like I but like I but like I I believe social media should always be I believe social media should always be I believe social media should always be a supplemental part of a Church's a supplemental part of a Church's a supplemental part of a Church's Ministry never like a Cornerstone of a Ministry never like a Cornerstone of a Ministry never like a Cornerstone of a Church's Ministry I don't know if that Church's Ministry I don't know if that Church's Ministry I don't know if that makes sense but like makes sense but like makes sense but like um uh I don't want a church to be like um uh I don't want a church to be like um uh I don't want a church to be like only offering certain things online and only offering certain things online and only offering certain things online and specifically on social media that specifically on social media that specifically on social media that someone may feel like they're not being someone may feel like they're not being someone may feel like they're not being adequately ministered to because they adequately ministered to because they adequately ministered to because they don't have and use social media out of a don't have and use social media out of a don't have and use social media out of a conviction or just because they don't conviction or just because they don't conviction or just because they don't feel like it or whatever because I I feel like it or whatever because I I feel like it or whatever because I I truly do think at its core social media truly do think at its core social media truly do think at its core social media is a great trivialization machine Neil is a great trivialization machine Neil is a great trivialization machine Neil Postman used to say this about the TV Postman used to say this about the TV Postman used to say this about the TV and I do think social media makes very and I do think social media makes very and I do think social media makes very deep things very trivial often and so deep things very trivial often and so deep things very trivial often and so that's something we need to be careful that's something we need to be careful that's something we need to be careful of as Christians creating content online of as Christians creating content online of as Christians creating content online is that we don't like trivialize the is that we don't like trivialize the is that we don't like trivialize the good news and all the implications of good news and all the implications of good news and all the implications of the good news because that's sort of the good news because that's sort of the good news because that's sort of like the medium almost inherently makes like the medium almost inherently makes like the medium almost inherently makes it feel trivial to a lot of it just it feel trivial to a lot of it just it feel trivial to a lot of it just makes it feel like content because they makes it feel like content because they makes it feel like content because they swipe from an encouraging clip from a swipe from an encouraging clip from a swipe from an encouraging clip from a sermon on Tick Tock to a goofy bit I'm a sermon on Tick Tock to a goofy bit I'm a sermon on Tick Tock to a goofy bit I'm a stand-up comedian in like a 15 second stand-up comedian in like a 15 second stand-up comedian in like a 15 second time span and it's just like should time span and it's just like should time span and it's just like should those two things be living right next to those two things be living right next to those two things be living right next to each other and be consumed right you each other and be consumed right you each other and be consumed right you know like like does that it can make it know like like does that it can make it know like like does that it can make it can sometimes feel like you like wipe can sometimes feel like you like wipe can sometimes feel like you like wipe the shiny reverence off of the sermon

the shiny reverence off of the sermon the shiny reverence off of the sermon clip when you watch the Chris Rock clip clip when you watch the Chris Rock clip clip when you watch the Chris Rock clip right after or whatever so right after or whatever so right after or whatever so um so I do think like we should be aware um so I do think like we should be aware um so I do think like we should be aware of those things and be cautious about of those things and be cautious about of those things and be cautious about these things and always these things and always these things and always just churches please always make just churches please always make just churches please always make anything you do on social media be anything you do on social media be anything you do on social media be supplemental to your incarnational work supplemental to your incarnational work supplemental to your incarnational work with people rather than like don't don't with people rather than like don't don't with people rather than like don't don't like gatekeep any part of your ministry like gatekeep any part of your ministry like gatekeep any part of your ministry behind some sort of social media or even behind some sort of social media or even behind some sort of social media or even broadly internet usage that would that broadly internet usage that would that broadly internet usage that would that would be the thing that I could hey would be the thing that I could hey would be the thing that I could hey people have different people have online people have different people have online people have different people have online campuses or whatever and hey look if campuses or whatever and hey look if campuses or whatever and hey look if you're that's fine I I'm not going to you're that's fine I I'm not going to you're that's fine I I'm not going to tell people how to do church but I would tell people how to do church but I would tell people how to do church but I would just say like be very careful about any just say like be very careful about any just say like be very careful about any time you're replacing an incarnational time you're replacing an incarnational time you're replacing an incarnational experience with a virtual experience you experience with a virtual experience you experience with a virtual experience you may be unintentionally trivializing may be unintentionally trivializing may be unintentionally trivializing something something something that you don't want to be trivializing that you don't want to be trivializing that you don't want to be trivializing very well said yeah I I you you're very well said yeah I I you you're very well said yeah I I you you're talking about like talking about like talking about like don't put your small group of curriculum don't put your small group of curriculum don't put your small group of curriculum on Facebook yeah yeah yeah I would have on Facebook yeah yeah yeah I would have on Facebook yeah yeah yeah I would have that would be a bad idea I would avoid that would be a bad idea I would avoid that would be a bad idea I would avoid that yeah no like you want to email like that yeah no like you want to email like that yeah no like you want to email like a PDF or something I'm not saying like a PDF or something I'm not saying like a PDF or something I'm not saying like all again technology and social media all again technology and social media all again technology and social media are very different are very different are very different um but like making it so like hey make um but like making it so like hey make um but like making it so like hey make sure you open a Facebook account so you sure you open a Facebook account so you sure you open a Facebook account so you can join us for small group on Thursdays again during like if you're doing that again during like if you're doing that during coven you're feeling convicted during coven you're feeling convicted during coven you're feeling convicted look covid wasn't a unique circumstance look covid wasn't a unique circumstance look covid wasn't a unique circumstance for everybody like uh or whatever but um for everybody like uh or whatever but um for everybody like uh or whatever but um but like now that we're able to largely

but like now that we're able to largely but like now that we're able to largely gather together and such at least for gather together and such at least for gather together and such at least for the time being the time being the time being um I would say uh like yeah don't don't um I would say uh like yeah don't don't um I would say uh like yeah don't don't keep that stuff behind these platforms keep that stuff behind these platforms keep that stuff behind these platforms right I think what you're saying is that right I think what you're saying is that right I think what you're saying is that you know as you consume social media you know as you consume social media you know as you consume social media be on your guard yeah don't let it be on your guard yeah don't let it be on your guard yeah don't let it consume you yeah and as you pour into consume you yeah and as you pour into consume you yeah and as you pour into social media social media social media okay do more of that that's great okay do more of that that's great okay do more of that that's great because if there's an absence of light because if there's an absence of light because if there's an absence of light there's Darkness so right that's good there's Darkness so right that's good there's Darkness so right that's good you know it's and have a balance of the you know it's and have a balance of the you know it's and have a balance of the two I think what you're saying yeah two I think what you're saying yeah two I think what you're saying yeah and I think I think local churches using and I think I think local churches using and I think I think local churches using social media to like social media to like social media to like keep up with people and like like for keep up with people and like like for keep up with people and like like for Fellowship as much as teaching is really Fellowship as much as teaching is really Fellowship as much as teaching is really great like again because great like again because great like again because I'm not saying like posting certain I I'm not saying like posting certain I I'm not saying like posting certain I keep saying this like I'm not saying keep saying this like I'm not saying keep saying this like I'm not saying posting sermon Clips on social media is posting sermon Clips on social media is posting sermon Clips on social media is bad I've encouraged churches to do it in bad I've encouraged churches to do it in bad I've encouraged churches to do it in my con in my consultations with them but my con in my consultations with them but my con in my consultations with them but I think like social media is even more I think like social media is even more I think like social media is even more effective as a means of getting people effective as a means of getting people effective as a means of getting people together in in a Facebook group to keep together in in a Facebook group to keep together in in a Facebook group to keep up with each other or to like we have a up with each other or to like we have a up with each other or to like we have a ma like a young mom's Facebook group at ma like a young mom's Facebook group at ma like a young mom's Facebook group at my church like that kind of thing is is my church like that kind of thing is is my church like that kind of thing is is great I think that's very helpful great I think that's very helpful great I think that's very helpful um I think that's an even better use um I think that's an even better use um I think that's an even better use than just like posting content of your than just like posting content of your than just like posting content of your pastor randomly I think that's great but pastor randomly I think that's great but pastor randomly I think that's great but it's like I think the other thing where it's like I think the other thing where it's like I think the other thing where you're like helping people make and keep you're like helping people make and keep you're like helping people make and keep connections is even an even more connections is even an even more connections is even an even more effective use of it I think so too yeah effective use of it I think so too yeah effective use of it I think so too yeah yeah the whole the whole point I mean yeah the whole the whole point I mean yeah the whole the whole point I mean you we we see this on Twitter and I know you we we see this on Twitter and I know you we we see this on Twitter and I know Chris you're pretty active on on Twitter Chris you're pretty active on on Twitter Chris you're pretty active on on Twitter that's probably your social channel of that's probably your social channel of that's probably your social channel of choice yes for posting yeah yeah and so

choice yes for posting yeah yeah and so choice yes for posting yeah yeah and so so you know I spent a little bit of time so you know I spent a little bit of time so you know I spent a little bit of time on Twitter we know that Twitter really on Twitter we know that Twitter really on Twitter we know that Twitter really doesn't work for like organizations and doesn't work for like organizations and doesn't work for like organizations and businesses it's really intended to be businesses it's really intended to be businesses it's really intended to be for personal use and in churches have for personal use and in churches have for personal use and in churches have really tried to leverage the business really tried to leverage the business really tried to leverage the business side of Facebook and Instagram to side of Facebook and Instagram to side of Facebook and Instagram to promote corporate stuff but I think that promote corporate stuff but I think that promote corporate stuff but I think that if we really think about social media if we really think about social media if we really think about social media and what it is really intended to do is and what it is really intended to do is and what it is really intended to do is to be a social platform where it's to be a social platform where it's to be a social platform where it's people engaging with people I remember people engaging with people I remember people engaging with people I remember during the pandemic I can't remember during the pandemic I can't remember during the pandemic I can't remember which church it was which church it was which church it was um I think it was somebody that Jason um I think it was somebody that Jason um I think it was somebody that Jason and I had on podcast at some point two and I had on podcast at some point two and I had on podcast at some point two and a half years ago where they talked and a half years ago where they talked and a half years ago where they talked about the fact that one of the practices about the fact that one of the practices about the fact that one of the practices that they got into during the pandemic that they got into during the pandemic that they got into during the pandemic was once a week having all of their was once a week having all of their was once a week having all of their staff get on their social media staff get on their social media staff get on their social media platforms and go and comment and like platforms and go and comment and like platforms and go and comment and like the posts and the content that was being the posts and the content that was being the posts and the content that was being shared by people in their congregation shared by people in their congregation shared by people in their congregation as an encouragement to basically say we as an encouragement to basically say we as an encouragement to basically say we see you we see that you're there we see see you we see that you're there we see see you we see that you're there we see what you're posting you just posted what you're posting you just posted what you're posting you just posted pictures of your kids soccer game or you pictures of your kids soccer game or you pictures of your kids soccer game or you know the the meal that you ate at the know the the meal that you ate at the know the the meal that you ate at the local Diner or whatever just you know local Diner or whatever just you know local Diner or whatever just you know comment on it share it like it and and I comment on it share it like it and and I comment on it share it like it and and I think the idea of using social media think the idea of using social media think the idea of using social media more on that personal level is more more on that personal level is more more on that personal level is more impactful than the corporate posture not impactful than the corporate posture not impactful than the corporate posture not that churches can't and shouldn't be that churches can't and shouldn't be that churches can't and shouldn't be using it from a corporate standpoint I using it from a corporate standpoint I using it from a corporate standpoint I mean that's you know it's a big part of mean that's you know it's a big part of mean that's you know it's a big part of their their front door or the presence their their front door or the presence their their front door or the presence that they create online where people who

that they create online where people who that they create online where people who are not part of their church are going are not part of their church are going are not part of their church are going to check them out you know somebody who to check them out you know somebody who to check them out you know somebody who doesn't go to your church they're going doesn't go to your church they're going doesn't go to your church they're going to check out your Facebook page your to check out your Facebook page your to check out your Facebook page your Instagram if you've got a tick tock Instagram if you've got a tick tock Instagram if you've got a tick tock they're gonna check out your Tick Tock they're gonna check out your Tick Tock they're gonna check out your Tick Tock and and it's important that you have an and and it's important that you have an and and it's important that you have an active and and whole presence there but active and and whole presence there but active and and whole presence there but not to put all the eggs in that basket I not to put all the eggs in that basket I not to put all the eggs in that basket I think is yeah it's important yeah think is yeah it's important yeah think is yeah it's important yeah totally I think that's great totally I think that's great totally I think that's great okay let's wrap this up we are recording okay let's wrap this up we are recording okay let's wrap this up we are recording this podcast episode on March 6th 2023 this podcast episode on March 6th 2023 this podcast episode on March 6th 2023 and the date that the book launches is and the date that the book launches is and the date that the book launches is what Chris March 7th tomorrow what Chris March 7th tomorrow what Chris March 7th tomorrow tomorrow so by the time this we're gonna tomorrow so by the time this we're gonna tomorrow so by the time this we're gonna push this episode out on Friday of this push this episode out on Friday of this push this episode out on Friday of this week so uh two days three days three week so uh two days three days three week so uh two days three days three three days after this podcast comes out three days after this podcast comes out three days after this podcast comes out the or before this podcast comes out the the or before this podcast comes out the the or before this podcast comes out the book will be available so if you're book will be available so if you're book will be available so if you're listening to this live and in real time listening to this live and in real time listening to this live and in real time or at least on the week that it comes or at least on the week that it comes or at least on the week that it comes out you can go and buy the book Chris out you can go and buy the book Chris out you can go and buy the book Chris where can people find the book where can people find the book where can people find the book yeah uh Amazon really anywhere you yeah uh Amazon really anywhere you yeah uh Amazon really anywhere you anywhere you like to buy books you anywhere you like to buy books you anywhere you like to buy books you should be able to find it uh should be able to find it uh should be able to find it uh christianbook.com Amazon christianbook.com Amazon christianbook.com Amazon moodypublishers.com moodypublishers.com moodypublishers.com moodypublishers.com I've been told I may moodypublishers.com I've been told I may moodypublishers.com I've been told I may have the best price you're probably have the best price you're probably have the best price you're probably going to pay shipping however if you if going to pay shipping however if you if going to pay shipping however if you if you're listening in your past you're you're listening in your past you're you're listening in your past you're like hey I want to buy 10 of these for like hey I want to buy 10 of these for like hey I want to buy 10 of these for my church leaders or whatever you my church leaders or whatever you my church leaders or whatever you probably will get a better deal at probably will get a better deal at probably will get a better deal at Publishers than Amazon so just I've I've Publishers than Amazon so just I've I've Publishers than Amazon so just I've I've been told that that bulk sales are maybe been told that that bulk sales are maybe been told that that bulk sales are maybe better at the Moody Publishers website better at the Moody Publishers website better at the Moody Publishers website than on Amazon there's a little Pro tip than on Amazon there's a little Pro tip than on Amazon there's a little Pro tip for you but for you but for you but um but yeah anywhere it doesn't matter um but yeah anywhere it doesn't matter um but yeah anywhere it doesn't matter to me where you get them to me where you get them to me where you get them um and uh yeah I would I would love to

um and uh yeah I would I would love to um and uh yeah I would I would love to uh I would love to help as many people uh I would love to help as many people uh I would love to help as many people as possible you know I'm under No as possible you know I'm under No as possible you know I'm under No Illusion I'm ever going to be a Illusion I'm ever going to be a Illusion I'm ever going to be a best-selling author but I I'm just about best-selling author but I I'm just about best-selling author but I I'm just about this one especially like I said the this one especially like I said the this one especially like I said the first one was when I felt like I needed first one was when I felt like I needed first one was when I felt like I needed to write this one it really does feel to write this one it really does feel to write this one it really does feel like a response to a need that was like a response to a need that was like a response to a need that was communicated to me so my hope is that communicated to me so my hope is that communicated to me so my hope is that for any pastors and parents uh leaders for any pastors and parents uh leaders for any pastors and parents uh leaders of other kinds who recognize that social of other kinds who recognize that social of other kinds who recognize that social media is the chief discipler of the media is the chief discipler of the media is the chief discipler of the people that they care about the chief people that they care about the chief people that they care about the chief world view shaper in in the people that world view shaper in in the people that world view shaper in in the people that they Love's lives they Love's lives they Love's lives um that they would take this and maybe um that they would take this and maybe um that they would take this and maybe be helped by it so that's kind of the be helped by it so that's kind of the be helped by it so that's kind of the hope hope hope okay so it's available in print and okay so it's available in print and okay so it's available in print and digitally yeah yeah in the next week or two often yeah in the next week or two often audiobooks if you're not like you know a audiobooks if you're not like you know a audiobooks if you're not like you know a New York Times bestseller uh your New York Times bestseller uh your New York Times bestseller uh your audiobook will sometimes lag a week or audiobook will sometimes lag a week or audiobook will sometimes lag a week or two after the pub date so my two after the pub date so my two after the pub date so my understanding is in the next couple of understanding is in the next couple of understanding is in the next couple of weeks the audiobook will be available weeks the audiobook will be available weeks the audiobook will be available okay and that's read by Matthew okay and that's read by Matthew okay and that's read by Matthew McConaughey yeah no no I almost I I McConaughey yeah no no I almost I I McConaughey yeah no no I almost I I wanted to try out for it but uh but they wanted to try out for it but uh but they wanted to try out for it but uh but they required you to like edit and stuff required you to like edit and stuff required you to like edit and stuff yourself so they no I listened I got to yourself so they no I listened I got to yourself so they no I listened I got to give input on who read it and I think we give input on who read it and I think we give input on who read it and I think we picked a good one so he should be good picked a good one so he should be good picked a good one so he should be good okay okay but it's not Matthew okay okay but it's not Matthew okay okay but it's not Matthew McConaughey unfortunately not no all McConaughey unfortunately not no all McConaughey unfortunately not no all right you you might could have sold more right you you might could have sold more right you you might could have sold more copies if you could have gotten him to copies if you could have gotten him to copies if you could have gotten him to read it but probably I think it'll cost read it but probably I think it'll cost read it but probably I think it'll cost me more money than I have but yeah me more money than I have but yeah me more money than I have but yeah that's true uh Chris I I think it's a that's true uh Chris I I think it's a that's true uh Chris I I think it's a great book great book great book um I'm about 60 70 of the way through

um I'm about 60 70 of the way through um I'm about 60 70 of the way through and I'm looking forward to finishing it and I'm looking forward to finishing it and I'm looking forward to finishing it up and recommending to pastors and up and recommending to pastors and up and recommending to pastors and church leaders that I know and uh we church leaders that I know and uh we church leaders that I know and uh we really appreciate you being on our show really appreciate you being on our show really appreciate you being on our show once again yeah thanks hey you know uh once again yeah thanks hey you know uh once again yeah thanks hey you know uh whenever you guys just need your your whenever you guys just need your your whenever you guys just need your your reigning Champion to come in you just reigning Champion to come in you just reigning Champion to come in you just give me a call I'm on the leaderboard give me a call I'm on the leaderboard give me a call I'm on the leaderboard you need to make a leaderboard right now you need to make a leaderboard right now you need to make a leaderboard right now I I'm basically a part owner of this I I'm basically a part owner of this I I'm basically a part owner of this podcast at this point so I get like a podcast at this point so I get like a podcast at this point so I get like a voting share I think we need a voting share I think we need a voting share I think we need a leaderboard leaderboard leaderboard of appearances not necessarily quality of appearances not necessarily quality of appearances not necessarily quality of appearances but number of appearances but number of appearances but number yeah thanks Chris sure