You Cannot Escape the Influence of the Social Internet | Chris Martin

[Music] [Music] the reason the book feels a bit negative the reason the book feels a bit negative the reason the book feels a bit negative is because i'm i think we're all pretty is because i'm i think we're all pretty is because i'm i think we're all pretty aware of the good of social media like aware of the good of social media like aware of the good of social media like we we all use it those of us who are we we all use it those of us who are we we all use it those of us who are listening to this podcast we all use it listening to this podcast we all use it listening to this podcast we all use it to some extent i think we all like know to some extent i think we all like know to some extent i think we all like know some of the value connecting with some of the value connecting with some of the value connecting with friends or family being entertained friends or family being entertained friends or family being entertained there's nothing wrong with that being there's nothing wrong with that being there's nothing wrong with that being informed or learning um and so i think i informed or learning um and so i think i informed or learning um and so i think i think we all see think we all see think we all see the good of social media in some respect the good of social media in some respect the good of social media in some respect if i wrote a book about here's why if i wrote a book about here's why if i wrote a book about here's why social media is awesome people will be social media is awesome people will be social media is awesome people will be like well you don't need to tell me like like well you don't need to tell me like like well you don't need to tell me like i know why you know i know why i like it i know why you know i know why i like it i know why you know i know why i like it um but i do think there are a lot of um but i do think there are a lot of um but i do think there are a lot of things that we give up when we use things that we give up when we use things that we give up when we use social media i think it may be affecting social media i think it may be affecting social media i think it may be affecting us in some ways we just don't realize us in some ways we just don't realize us in some ways we just don't realize and so because of that i wanted to write and so because of that i wanted to write and so because of that i wanted to write a book that's just kind of a cautionary a book that's just kind of a cautionary a book that's just kind of a cautionary hey let's not use this stuff passively hey let's not use this stuff passively hey let's not use this stuff passively let's use this stuff intentionally let's use this stuff intentionally let's use this stuff intentionally welcome to the missional marketing welcome to the missional marketing welcome to the missional marketing podcast where our goal is to help your podcast where our goal is to help your podcast where our goal is to help your church grow by leveraging digital church grow by leveraging digital church grow by leveraging digital marketing and effective communications marketing and effective communications marketing and effective communications i'm bart blair joined by jason hamrock i'm bart blair joined by jason hamrock i'm bart blair joined by jason hamrock jason thanks for joining me on the show jason thanks for joining me on the show jason thanks for joining me on the show today oh bart pleasure to be here i'm today oh bart pleasure to be here i'm today oh bart pleasure to be here i'm excited about today's podcast because excited about today's podcast because excited about today's podcast because we've got a special one for you uh we've got a special one for you uh we've got a special one for you uh you're gonna love chris martin he wrote you're gonna love chris martin he wrote you're gonna love chris martin he wrote a new book a new book a new book and you're gonna if you're into social and you're gonna if you're into social and you're gonna if you're into social media which you are media which you are media which you are if you're influenced by social media if you're influenced by social media if you're influenced by social media which you are which you are which you are you're gonna love this book now here's you're gonna love this book now here's you're gonna love this book now here's the deal the deal the deal what chris talks about i think from this what chris talks about i think from this what chris talks about i think from this perspective you got to wear the lens of perspective you got to wear the lens of perspective you got to wear the lens of you work for a church and you've got

you work for a church and you've got you work for a church and you've got your congregation who uses social media your congregation who uses social media your congregation who uses social media that's how i've been reading the book that's how i've been reading the book that's how i've been reading the book and so he's going to dig into why he and so he's going to dig into why he and so he's going to dig into why he wrote the book and the benefits of wrote the book and the benefits of wrote the book and the benefits of reading his book i'm excited about it reading his book i'm excited about it reading his book i'm excited about it bart bart bart absolutely it was a phenomenal absolutely it was a phenomenal absolutely it was a phenomenal conversation i'm almost finished with conversation i'm almost finished with conversation i'm almost finished with the book now i had gotten most of the the book now i had gotten most of the the book now i had gotten most of the way through before we recorded this way through before we recorded this way through before we recorded this episode if chris's name is familiar to episode if chris's name is familiar to episode if chris's name is familiar to you it's because this is the third time you it's because this is the third time you it's because this is the third time he's been on our show he's the first he's been on our show he's the first he's been on our show he's the first three-time guest that we've had and three-time guest that we've had and three-time guest that we've had and we've pretty much guaranteed after this we've pretty much guaranteed after this we've pretty much guaranteed after this one there's probably going to be a one there's probably going to be a one there's probably going to be a fourth time so great conversation with fourth time so great conversation with fourth time so great conversation with chris martin we hope that you appreciate chris martin we hope that you appreciate chris martin we hope that you appreciate it uh we appreciate you uh hanging out it uh we appreciate you uh hanging out it uh we appreciate you uh hanging out with us and um listening to or watching with us and um listening to or watching with us and um listening to or watching our podcast if you haven't yet left us a our podcast if you haven't yet left us a our podcast if you haven't yet left us a rating or review we'd really appreciate rating or review we'd really appreciate rating or review we'd really appreciate you doing that it helps more people find you doing that it helps more people find you doing that it helps more people find the podcast so without any further delay the podcast so without any further delay the podcast so without any further delay here's our recent conversation with here's our recent conversation with here's our recent conversation with chris martin the author of terms of chris martin the author of terms of chris martin the author of terms of service the real cost of social media service the real cost of social media service the real cost of social media hey chris martin thanks so much for hey chris martin thanks so much for hey chris martin thanks so much for joining jason and me on the show today joining jason and me on the show today joining jason and me on the show today hey thanks for having me guys it's great hey thanks for having me guys it's great hey thanks for having me guys it's great to be back i've enjoyed being with you to be back i've enjoyed being with you to be back i've enjoyed being with you before and i'm glad to be back here before and i'm glad to be back here before and i'm glad to be back here again yeah uh again yeah uh again yeah uh chris uh you hold the honor of being the chris uh you hold the honor of being the chris uh you hold the honor of being the first guest on our podcast uh to make a first guest on our podcast uh to make a first guest on our podcast uh to make a third appearance uh and uh you know we third appearance uh and uh you know we third appearance uh and uh you know we have very very good reason to have you have very very good reason to have you have very very good reason to have you back on the show today we've introduced back on the show today we've introduced back on the show today we've introduced you the last couple of times with like you the last couple of times with like you the last couple of times with like different job titles today different job titles today different job titles today we're introducing you as the author of a we're introducing you as the author of a we're introducing you as the author of a brand new hot off the presses book brand new hot off the presses book brand new hot off the presses book called terms of service the real cost of

called terms of service the real cost of called terms of service the real cost of social media and we're gonna get into social media and we're gonna get into social media and we're gonna get into the conversation about the book in just the conversation about the book in just the conversation about the book in just a minute uh but why don't you for um our a minute uh but why don't you for um our a minute uh but why don't you for um our listeners who maybe missed the last listeners who maybe missed the last listeners who maybe missed the last great episodes that you were on just great episodes that you were on just great episodes that you were on just give us a quick flyby on your background give us a quick flyby on your background give us a quick flyby on your background and what you do when you're not writing and what you do when you're not writing and what you do when you're not writing great books great books great books yeah yeah so i uh i currently work at yeah yeah so i uh i currently work at yeah yeah so i uh i currently work at moody publishers as a content marketing moody publishers as a content marketing moody publishers as a content marketing editor which means i kind of have a foot editor which means i kind of have a foot editor which means i kind of have a foot in the in the in the editorial space and a foot in the editorial space and a foot in the editorial space and a foot in the marketing space so i get to help edit marketing space so i get to help edit marketing space so i get to help edit some of our books for theology and some of our books for theology and some of our books for theology and um and other various topics of um and other various topics of um and other various topics of not not i'm not a copy editor i'm not uh not not i'm not a copy editor i'm not uh not not i'm not a copy editor i'm not uh editing for punctuation and typos i'm editing for punctuation and typos i'm editing for punctuation and typos i'm not i can catch some of those but i'm not i can catch some of those but i'm not i can catch some of those but i'm not the right guy for that job uh so i not the right guy for that job uh so i not the right guy for that job uh so i because i have an mdiv i do some like because i have an mdiv i do some like because i have an mdiv i do some like theological editing of books and things theological editing of books and things theological editing of books and things like that and then also i help with some like that and then also i help with some like that and then also i help with some marketing efforts specifically at the marketing efforts specifically at the marketing efforts specifically at the top level very content marketing top level very content marketing top level very content marketing level of things so i'm not trying to level of things so i'm not trying to level of things so i'm not trying to sell books per se but just trying to get sell books per se but just trying to get sell books per se but just trying to get the word out about both moody publishers the word out about both moody publishers the word out about both moody publishers and some of our books so and some of our books so and some of our books so actually uh around november of 2021 we actually uh around november of 2021 we actually uh around november of 2021 we launched a new website at moody launched a new website at moody launched a new website at moody publishers called bibletolife.com publishers called bibletolife.com publishers called bibletolife.com and the whole purpose of bible to and the whole purpose of bible to and the whole purpose of bible to life.com is is life.com is is life.com is is us at moody publishers saying hey what us at moody publishers saying hey what us at moody publishers saying hey what if we took some of the content from if we took some of the content from if we took some of the content from these 60 plus books we publish every these 60 plus books we publish every these 60 plus books we publish every year and chopped it up and made it year and chopped it up and made it year and chopped it up and made it available to people who are searching available to people who are searching available to people who are searching the internet for all kinds of questions the internet for all kinds of questions the internet for all kinds of questions and and and and answers about what it means to and answers about what it means to and answers about what it means to follow christ whether they're believers follow christ whether they're believers follow christ whether they're believers pastors even or or people who are pastors even or or people who are pastors even or or people who are seekers and don't know christ but are seekers and don't know christ but are seekers and don't know christ but are looking for spiritual matters on the

looking for spiritual matters on the looking for spiritual matters on the internet what if we internet what if we internet what if we you know people who would never read a you know people who would never read a you know people who would never read a 200 page paperback book what if we took 200 page paperback book what if we took 200 page paperback book what if we took some of these chapters some of these some of these chapters some of these some of these chapters some of these sections of content that are really sections of content that are really sections of content that are really helpful chop them up and put them online helpful chop them up and put them online helpful chop them up and put them online for people to be served by there and so for people to be served by there and so for people to be served by there and so it's really fun during for my day job to it's really fun during for my day job to it's really fun during for my day job to get to get to get to steward book content on the internet in steward book content on the internet in steward book content on the internet in a way that as you guys know and as i'm a way that as you guys know and as i'm a way that as you guys know and as i'm sure will be revealed throughout this sure will be revealed throughout this sure will be revealed throughout this discussion really aligns with my discussion really aligns with my discussion really aligns with my personal interests when i'm not working personal interests when i'm not working personal interests when i'm not working my day job so i love that my day job you my day job so i love that my day job you my day job so i love that my day job you know not that there's anything wrong know not that there's anything wrong know not that there's anything wrong with punching numbers or doing code or with punching numbers or doing code or with punching numbers or doing code or something like that that's all good but something like that that's all good but something like that that's all good but i'm just glad that i get to spend my i'm just glad that i get to spend my i'm just glad that i get to spend my days days days reading through really great books and reading through really great books and reading through really great books and figuring out how can i take how can i figuring out how can i take how can i figuring out how can i take how can i take these three pages and create a cool take these three pages and create a cool take these three pages and create a cool article that would help people as article that would help people as article that would help people as they're searching for why does god allow they're searching for why does god allow they're searching for why does god allow people to suffer or do you have to be people to suffer or do you have to be people to suffer or do you have to be baptized to get to heaven you know i get baptized to get to heaven you know i get baptized to get to heaven you know i get to create online content around stuff to create online content around stuff to create online content around stuff that people are searching for uh and and that people are searching for uh and and that people are searching for uh and and maybe not asking their pastors about as maybe not asking their pastors about as maybe not asking their pastors about as much as they're asking google about so much as they're asking google about so much as they're asking google about so that's what i do for a day job i spent that's what i do for a day job i spent that's what i do for a day job i spent seven years at lifeway christian seven years at lifeway christian seven years at lifeway christian resources resources resources in a number of digital content roles um in a number of digital content roles um in a number of digital content roles um three or four over my seven years there three or four over my seven years there three or four over my seven years there my final job there uh was running their my final job there uh was running their my final job there uh was running their social media social media social media operations so we had roughly 270 social operations so we had roughly 270 social operations so we had roughly 270 social media accounts many of those were media accounts many of those were media accounts many of those were associated with our bookstores which we associated with our bookstores which we associated with our bookstores which we were closing at the time and so i was were closing at the time and so i was were closing at the time and so i was kind of heading up the operation of kind of heading up the operation of kind of heading up the operation of trying to get some of those corralled trying to get some of those corralled trying to get some of those corralled and then i ran the at lifelight handles and then i ran the at lifelight handles and then i ran the at lifelight handles and such so i have a and such so i have a and such so i have a lot of experience running a social lot of experience running a social lot of experience running a social operation and a operation and a operation and a lot of experience also in in just doing lot of experience also in in just doing lot of experience also in in just doing online content so online content so online content so as you guys know as we'll talk about i'm as you guys know as we'll talk about i'm as you guys know as we'll talk about i'm i'm also interested beyond strategy i

i'm also interested beyond strategy i i'm also interested beyond strategy i love the strategy but we've talked love the strategy but we've talked love the strategy but we've talked strategy a lot here but i'm really strategy a lot here but i'm really strategy a lot here but i'm really interested also in the sort of interested also in the sort of interested also in the sort of philosophical underpinnings of like what philosophical underpinnings of like what philosophical underpinnings of like what is this stuff doing to us for good and is this stuff doing to us for good and is this stuff doing to us for good and for bad um and and much of what the book for bad um and and much of what the book for bad um and and much of what the book explores that we'll talk about is maybe explores that we'll talk about is maybe explores that we'll talk about is maybe some of the bad stuff that we either some of the bad stuff that we either some of the bad stuff that we either simply don't know about or that we like simply don't know about or that we like simply don't know about or that we like to ignore because it's a little scary to ignore because it's a little scary to ignore because it's a little scary sometimes sometimes sometimes well thanks for that background chris um well thanks for that background chris um well thanks for that background chris um you know one of the things that i i do you know one of the things that i i do you know one of the things that i i do want to kind of highlight is the fact want to kind of highlight is the fact want to kind of highlight is the fact that um in your time at lifeway and that um in your time at lifeway and that um in your time at lifeway and currently certainly in your current uh currently certainly in your current uh currently certainly in your current uh role role role you have had to use social media as a you have had to use social media as a you have had to use social media as a professional tool and so you've had to professional tool and so you've had to professional tool and so you've had to learn learn learn how it works uh how to leverage it uh to how it works uh how to leverage it uh to how it works uh how to leverage it uh to to gain an audience to build an audience to gain an audience to build an audience to gain an audience to build an audience and then to move an audience towards uh and then to move an audience towards uh and then to move an audience towards uh towards action right that's the ultimate towards action right that's the ultimate towards action right that's the ultimate goal and you know jason and i for the goal and you know jason and i for the goal and you know jason and i for the sake of full disclosure you know we work sake of full disclosure you know we work sake of full disclosure you know we work for a marketing company that uh wants to for a marketing company that uh wants to for a marketing company that uh wants to do the same thing we want to help do the same thing we want to help do the same thing we want to help churches leverage social media and other churches leverage social media and other churches leverage social media and other digital tools digital tools digital tools for the sake of for the sake of for the sake of gaining an audience building an audience gaining an audience building an audience gaining an audience building an audience and moving people towards something now and moving people towards something now and moving people towards something now churches aren't trying to sell something churches aren't trying to sell something churches aren't trying to sell something we're trying to move people towards a we're trying to move people towards a we're trying to move people towards a relationship with jesus relationship with jesus relationship with jesus but you know ultimately the underlying but you know ultimately the underlying but you know ultimately the underlying patterns are are very very similar now patterns are are very very similar now patterns are are very very similar now um you just recently released this book um you just recently released this book um you just recently released this book it's hot off the presses we'll share it's hot off the presses we'll share it's hot off the presses we'll share with our audience at the end of the with our audience at the end of the with our audience at the end of the episode how they can get their hands on episode how they can get their hands on episode how they can get their hands on a copy of it if they're intrigued by the a copy of it if they're intrigued by the a copy of it if they're intrigued by the topic of our conversation today um but i

topic of our conversation today um but i topic of our conversation today um but i you know one of the things that i first you know one of the things that i first you know one of the things that i first started thinking about when you were started thinking about when you were started thinking about when you were telling me about the book was the first telling me about the book was the first telling me about the book was the first thing i started thinking about was that thing i started thinking about was that thing i started thinking about was that movie that came out on netflix a year or movie that came out on netflix a year or movie that came out on netflix a year or two ago the social dilemma right um i two ago the social dilemma right um i two ago the social dilemma right um i don't know many people in fact i don't know many people in fact i don't know many people in fact i remember jason in one of our team remember jason in one of our team remember jason in one of our team meetings telling our entire staff you meetings telling our entire staff you meetings telling our entire staff you all need to go watch the social dilemma all need to go watch the social dilemma all need to go watch the social dilemma and so i was thinking to myself well i and so i was thinking to myself well i and so i was thinking to myself well i wonder if chris is just kind of you know wonder if chris is just kind of you know wonder if chris is just kind of you know rehashing the social dilemma in book rehashing the social dilemma in book rehashing the social dilemma in book form form form from a christian perspective maybe you from a christian perspective maybe you from a christian perspective maybe you are a follower of jesus and i will say are a follower of jesus and i will say are a follower of jesus and i will say this this this the book is not a christian book at the the book is not a christian book at the the book is not a christian book at the same time you do not hide at all the same time you do not hide at all the same time you do not hide at all the fact that you are a person of faith and fact that you are a person of faith and fact that you are a person of faith and you give a few little nudges and you give a few little nudges and you give a few little nudges and indications along the way about how indications along the way about how indications along the way about how followers of jesus ought to respond in followers of jesus ought to respond in followers of jesus ought to respond in the context of the context of the context of social media and the social internet um social media and the social internet um social media and the social internet um but one of the things i wanted to do but one of the things i wanted to do but one of the things i wanted to do jason i jason i jason i i was thinking when we first when i i was thinking when we first when i i was thinking when we first when i first started reading the book i started first started reading the book i started first started reading the book i started thinking about the internet and when the thinking about the internet and when the thinking about the internet and when the internet came into my life i want to ask internet came into my life i want to ask internet came into my life i want to ask you that question you that question you that question do you remember your first experiences do you remember your first experiences do you remember your first experiences online do you remember you know what online do you remember you know what online do you remember you know what what getting on the internet first what getting on the internet first what getting on the internet first looked like for you when you did oh yeah looked like for you when you did oh yeah looked like for you when you did oh yeah yeah i mean we i had just gotten married yeah i mean we i had just gotten married yeah i mean we i had just gotten married and was moved moved to arizona and you and was moved moved to arizona and you and was moved moved to arizona and you know we ordered that dial up thing right know we ordered that dial up thing right know we ordered that dial up thing right and so i remember and so i remember and so i remember doing that and and thought this was doing that and and thought this was doing that and and thought this was pretty cool um and i pretty cool um and i pretty cool um and i i remember thinking how do you build i remember thinking how do you build i remember thinking how do you build this how do you build a website right this how do you build a website right this how do you build a website right and and and and about those those days i started on

and about those those days i started on and about those those days i started on staff at a church and we built our first staff at a church and we built our first staff at a church and we built our first church website it was horrible church website it was horrible church website it was horrible it was so bad it was so bad it was so bad but uh yeah i i remember yeah i remember but uh yeah i i remember yeah i remember but uh yeah i i remember yeah i remember i remember those days very clearly and i remember those days very clearly and i remember those days very clearly and it's like you know you guys that it's like you know you guys that it's like you know you guys that kind of have grown up with kind of have grown up with kind of have grown up with high-speed internet access like that high-speed internet access like that high-speed internet access like that that was not such a thing and that was not such a thing and that was not such a thing and so we actually i remember getting in the so we actually i remember getting in the so we actually i remember getting in the second line a second telephone line just second line a second telephone line just second line a second telephone line just for the internet i don't know if you for the internet i don't know if you for the internet i don't know if you know this is like a real deal because it know this is like a real deal because it know this is like a real deal because it will like will like will like if you're online you're you're consuming if you're online you're you're consuming if you're online you're you're consuming the the telephone line come on the the telephone line come on the the telephone line come on i remember getting that second line and i remember getting that second line and i remember getting that second line and having that come in and my wife's like having that come in and my wife's like having that come in and my wife's like what are you doing like i think we need what are you doing like i think we need what are you doing like i think we need this because we want to be online she's this because we want to be online she's this because we want to be online she's like why like why like why but those those days are i remember but those those days are i remember but those those days are i remember those days perfect this is before kids those days perfect this is before kids those days perfect this is before kids too so too so too so yeah how about you bart yeah how about you bart yeah how about you bart well i'd say as i started reading well i'd say as i started reading well i'd say as i started reading chris's book i started having flashbacks chris's book i started having flashbacks chris's book i started having flashbacks to the first time i got on the internet to the first time i got on the internet to the first time i got on the internet and i can still remember being at my and i can still remember being at my and i can still remember being at my parents house and they bought a home parents house and they bought a home parents house and they bought a home computer and they knew nothing about computer and they knew nothing about computer and they knew nothing about home computers i have no idea this would home computers i have no idea this would home computers i have no idea this would have been 95 have been 95 have been 95 94 95 94 95 94 95 and i still remember pulling the and i still remember pulling the and i still remember pulling the computer out setting it up computer out setting it up computer out setting it up came packaged with an aol disk in it and came packaged with an aol disk in it and came packaged with an aol disk in it and i loaded up disk and i can still i loaded up disk and i can still i loaded up disk and i can still remember the adrenaline rush that i got remember the adrenaline rush that i got remember the adrenaline rush that i got the first time i connected to the the first time i connected to the the first time i connected to the internet and went whoa it was it was internet and went whoa it was it was internet and went whoa it was it was like opening a door to a whole new world

like opening a door to a whole new world like opening a door to a whole new world right it was like you know right it was like you know right it was like you know i i i i i i i don't even remember what i did but i i don't even remember what i did but i i don't even remember what i did but i still remember the emotional feeling still remember the emotional feeling still remember the emotional feeling that i had when i actually got on the that i had when i actually got on the that i had when i actually got on the internet and realized i can actually internet and realized i can actually internet and realized i can actually chat with people and talk to people and chat with people and talk to people and chat with people and talk to people and have email and it was it was a very very have email and it was it was a very very have email and it was it was a very very uh it was a very very formidable uh it was a very very formidable uh it was a very very formidable experience i was in like my mid 20s and experience i was in like my mid 20s and experience i was in like my mid 20s and i just remember i just remember the the i just remember i just remember the the i just remember i just remember the the the the adrenaline when those little the the adrenaline when those little the the adrenaline when those little er er sounds started clicking on the on er er sounds started clicking on the on er er sounds started clicking on the on the dial up phone and it was it was the dial up phone and it was it was the dial up phone and it was it was pretty cool i was one of those people pretty cool i was one of those people pretty cool i was one of those people too that too that too that chris mentioned this in the book that chris mentioned this in the book that chris mentioned this in the book that aol they were smart they were like aol they were smart they were like aol they were smart they were like mailing everyone discs right you met the mailing everyone discs right you met the mailing everyone discs right you met the first first first social social social the first social media network was built the first social media network was built the first social media network was built because they were mailing disks to because they were mailing disks to because they were mailing disks to everyone in everyone in everyone in in the world and i remember america in the world and i remember america in the world and i remember america i remember keeping the disks because i i remember keeping the disks because i i remember keeping the disks because i kept thinking well i might need it kept thinking well i might need it kept thinking well i might need it someday and i'd have this collection of someday and i'd have this collection of someday and i'd have this collection of aol discs that had come in the mail like aol discs that had come in the mail like aol discs that had come in the mail like once i wish i would have kept those once i wish i would have kept those once i wish i would have kept those they're probably worth some money just they're probably worth some money just they're probably worth some money just for you know seriously for you know seriously for you know seriously well you could decorate a wall in your well you could decorate a wall in your well you could decorate a wall in your office with them or something you know office with them or something you know office with them or something you know flip them upside down and have some flip them upside down and have some flip them upside down and have some some some some shiny wall but i don't know if there's shiny wall but i don't know if there's shiny wall but i don't know if there's any value in those but that was my that any value in those but that was my that any value in those but that was my that was my first internet experience was my first internet experience was my first internet experience so chris so chris so chris why why why why this topic why this book what what why this topic why this book what what why this topic why this book what what made you made you made you realize you need to sit down and write realize you need to sit down and write realize you need to sit down and write this because you feel like there's a

this because you feel like there's a this because you feel like there's a need out there that people need to hear need out there that people need to hear need out there that people need to hear this and who's the intended audience this and who's the intended audience this and who's the intended audience with this book with this book with this book yeah um first let's start with the yeah um first let's start with the yeah um first let's start with the intended audience so as bart intended audience so as bart intended audience so as bart acknowledged and i'm glad he kind of acknowledged and i'm glad he kind of acknowledged and i'm glad he kind of caught it we did not talk about this in caught it we did not talk about this in caught it we did not talk about this in the pre-show and uh though he didn't we the pre-show and uh though he didn't we the pre-show and uh though he didn't we did have a nice pre-show discussion i did have a nice pre-show discussion i did have a nice pre-show discussion i should say um we didn't talk about it should say um we didn't talk about it should say um we didn't talk about it but i as i was writing it you know i i but i as i was writing it you know i i but i as i was writing it you know i i read so so many of the read so so many of the read so so many of the most most most well-versed and knowledgeable people well-versed and knowledgeable people well-versed and knowledgeable people that i read on matters of the social that i read on matters of the social that i read on matters of the social internet and social media and our internet and social media and our internet and social media and our relationship with it are not believers relationship with it are not believers relationship with it are not believers um and i wanted to write um and i wanted to write um and i wanted to write a a a book book book similar to many of the books i had read similar to many of the books i had read similar to many of the books i had read but with a christian worldview attached but with a christian worldview attached but with a christian worldview attached to it i was not interested in writing to it i was not interested in writing to it i was not interested in writing like a theology of social media if you like a theology of social media if you like a theology of social media if you will yeah um and i wanted to write a will yeah um and i wanted to write a will yeah um and i wanted to write a book that those from a christian book that those from a christian book that those from a christian worldview did not feel like you needed worldview did not feel like you needed worldview did not feel like you needed to share my worldview to be helped by to share my worldview to be helped by to share my worldview to be helped by the book if you will there are a lot of the book if you will there are a lot of the book if you will there are a lot of really helpful christian books out there really helpful christian books out there really helpful christian books out there both on technology and otherwise that if both on technology and otherwise that if both on technology and otherwise that if you aren't a christian like if you don't you aren't a christian like if you don't you aren't a christian like if you don't if you don't share the base worldview if you don't share the base worldview if you don't share the base worldview it's just simply not going to be helpful it's just simply not going to be helpful it's just simply not going to be helpful um i wanted this book to be helpful for um i wanted this book to be helpful for um i wanted this book to be helpful for christians and non-christians alike so christians and non-christians alike so christians and non-christians alike so my world view comes through my world view comes through my world view comes through um because who can really divorce their um because who can really divorce their um because who can really divorce their worldview from something like this but worldview from something like this but worldview from something like this but it's not it's not it's not um my hope is is that somebody could um my hope is is that somebody could um my hope is is that somebody could pick up this book and and feel helped by pick up this book and and feel helped by pick up this book and and feel helped by it regardless of what their faith or it regardless of what their faith or it regardless of what their faith or philosophical backgrounds are um and so philosophical backgrounds are um and so philosophical backgrounds are um and so i'm really glad that bart kind of picked i'm really glad that bart kind of picked i'm really glad that bart kind of picked up on that because that was intentional up on that because that was intentional up on that because that was intentional on my part which is just tricky because

on my part which is just tricky because on my part which is just tricky because you know could i sell more books if i you know could i sell more books if i you know could i sell more books if i made it like made it like made it like you know exclusively christian maybe but you know exclusively christian maybe but you know exclusively christian maybe but i just wanted it to be kind of a i just wanted it to be kind of a i just wanted it to be kind of a missional project in that way um and so missional project in that way um and so missional project in that way um and so the audience is really anybody who uses the audience is really anybody who uses the audience is really anybody who uses social media which is just about all of social media which is just about all of social media which is just about all of us us us um at least anyone listen to this um at least anyone listen to this um at least anyone listen to this podcast surely um and so really it's podcast surely um and so really it's podcast surely um and so really it's anybody who uses social media in fact i anybody who uses social media in fact i anybody who uses social media in fact i mean probably even people who don't use mean probably even people who don't use mean probably even people who don't use social media my grandmother who i social media my grandmother who i social media my grandmother who i mention in the book will probably read mention in the book will probably read mention in the book will probably read this book and only about 20 of it will this book and only about 20 of it will this book and only about 20 of it will make sense i told her on the phone the make sense i told her on the phone the make sense i told her on the phone the other day i told her i said grandma if other day i told her i said grandma if other day i told her i said grandma if you want to read the book that's great i you want to read the book that's great i you want to read the book that's great i said it probably won't make a whole lot said it probably won't make a whole lot said it probably won't make a whole lot of sense to you because she's never used of sense to you because she's never used of sense to you because she's never used the internet period let alone social the internet period let alone social the internet period let alone social media and i said to her i said it media and i said to her i said it media and i said to her i said it probably won't make a whole lot of sense probably won't make a whole lot of sense probably won't make a whole lot of sense but i said if it if it gets confusing but i said if it if it gets confusing but i said if it if it gets confusing anytime you see a social media anytime you see a social media anytime you see a social media term like facebook like she knows what term like facebook like she knows what term like facebook like she knows what they are i said just substitute tv and they are i said just substitute tv and they are i said just substitute tv and it might kind of make sense to you it might kind of make sense to you it might kind of make sense to you because you know she grew up when tv was because you know she grew up when tv was because you know she grew up when tv was really booming yeah and just like just really booming yeah and just like just really booming yeah and just like just like neil postman's book amusing like neil postman's book amusing like neil postman's book amusing ourselves to death a lot of what he says ourselves to death a lot of what he says ourselves to death a lot of what he says about tv applies to social media i think about tv applies to social media i think about tv applies to social media i think a lot of what i say about social media a lot of what i say about social media a lot of what i say about social media could still apply to tv so anyway the could still apply to tv so anyway the could still apply to tv so anyway the book is written for anybody who uses book is written for anybody who uses book is written for anybody who uses social media and kind of sees how it's social media and kind of sees how it's social media and kind of sees how it's impacting all of our lives the reason i impacting all of our lives the reason i impacting all of our lives the reason i wanted to write on it wanted to write on it wanted to write on it is because is because is because the more and more i use social media the more and more i use social media the more and more i use social media professionally and was doing a lot of professionally and was doing a lot of professionally and was doing a lot of strategy and really using it in a sort strategy and really using it in a sort strategy and really using it in a sort of i guess you could say like high of i guess you could say like high of i guess you could say like high octane way um as my you know i was on octane way um as my you know i was on octane way um as my you know i was on social media eight hours a day for my social media eight hours a day for my social media eight hours a day for my job and then also like to use it for job and then also like to use it for job and then also like to use it for personal use to be in to watch youtube personal use to be in to watch youtube personal use to be in to watch youtube videos i thought were good or videos i thought were good or videos i thought were good or informative or i like i'm a video game

informative or i like i'm a video game informative or i like i'm a video game guys so i like watching streamers on guys so i like watching streamers on guys so i like watching streamers on twitch play video games and stuff like twitch play video games and stuff like twitch play video games and stuff like that and so i started but i when i was that and so i started but i when i was that and so i started but i when i was working actually in that final role at working actually in that final role at working actually in that final role at lifeway when i was running social media lifeway when i was running social media lifeway when i was running social media i started asking questions like i started asking questions like i started asking questions like how is this affecting us in ways we how is this affecting us in ways we how is this affecting us in ways we maybe don't realize i read neil maybe don't realize i read neil maybe don't realize i read neil postman's amusing ourselves to death and postman's amusing ourselves to death and postman's amusing ourselves to death and i realized that i realized that i realized that wow this book he wrote in 1985 is a wow this book he wrote in 1985 is a wow this book he wrote in 1985 is a whole lot whole lot whole lot more relevant today than most books more relevant today than most books more relevant today than most books written in 1985 or probably probably written in 1985 or probably probably written in 1985 or probably probably would be on topics like technology and would be on topics like technology and would be on topics like technology and media yeah and it's like i thought to media yeah and it's like i thought to media yeah and it's like i thought to myself i said what if man the first myself i said what if man the first myself i said what if man the first thought was man i wish neil postman was thought was man i wish neil postman was thought was man i wish neil postman was still around today because i'd love to still around today because i'd love to still around today because i'd love to hear what he thinks about where we're at hear what he thinks about where we're at hear what he thinks about where we're at and he he died in 2005 i believe or and he he died in 2005 i believe or and he he died in 2005 i believe or three and so he you can actually find a three and so he you can actually find a three and so he you can actually find a few lectures where he start where he few lectures where he start where he few lectures where he start where he talks about the information super talks about the information super talks about the information super highway because when he was giving the highway because when he was giving the highway because when he was giving the lectures that's what it was still called lectures that's what it was still called lectures that's what it was still called uh that's what it was still commonly uh that's what it was still commonly uh that's what it was still commonly called in conversation um and so we do called in conversation um and so we do called in conversation um and so we do have a few of his thoughts but i was have a few of his thoughts but i was have a few of his thoughts but i was like what if neil postman like what if neil postman like what if neil postman was alive today was alive today was alive today and he could talk about social media and and he could talk about social media and and he could talk about social media and he was a christian i said i think we he was a christian i said i think we he was a christian i said i think we would really benefit from reading would really benefit from reading would really benefit from reading somebody like that somebody like that somebody like that and i couldn't really find many if any and i couldn't really find many if any and i couldn't really find many if any people who were writing like that so i people who were writing like that so i people who were writing like that so i was like was like was like well i think i would like to try to be well i think i would like to try to be well i think i would like to try to be that for people because i would i would that for people because i would i would that for people because i would i would benefit from the research that comes benefit from the research that comes benefit from the research that comes from from from doing all of that and i think others doing all of that and i think others doing all of that and i think others could maybe benefit from having a voice could maybe benefit from having a voice could maybe benefit from having a voice like that today so that's when i set out like that today so that's when i set out like that today so that's when i set out on reading a lot of books around this on reading a lot of books around this on reading a lot of books around this topic and really starting to ask deeper

topic and really starting to ask deeper topic and really starting to ask deeper questions like how is this affecting us questions like how is this affecting us questions like how is this affecting us in ways we don't realize and and i've in ways we don't realize and and i've in ways we don't realize and and i've said this in conversation with you guys said this in conversation with you guys said this in conversation with you guys and and and on other podcasts i've done for this on other podcasts i've done for this on other podcasts i've done for this book um book um book um the book is not anti-social media now the book is not anti-social media now the book is not anti-social media now it's quite negative and if you look at it's quite negative and if you look at it's quite negative and if you look at the cover it's a bunch of the cover it's a bunch of the cover it's a bunch of smiley faces making up a frowny face so smiley faces making up a frowny face so smiley faces making up a frowny face so it looks like it may be quite a it looks like it may be quite a it looks like it may be quite a depressing book um but i think the depressing book um but i think the depressing book um but i think the reason the book feels a bit negative reason the book feels a bit negative reason the book feels a bit negative is because i'm i think we're all pretty is because i'm i think we're all pretty is because i'm i think we're all pretty aware of the good of social media like aware of the good of social media like aware of the good of social media like we we all use it those of us who are we we all use it those of us who are we we all use it those of us who are listening to this podcast we all use it listening to this podcast we all use it listening to this podcast we all use it to some extent i think we all like know to some extent i think we all like know to some extent i think we all like know some of the value connecting with some of the value connecting with some of the value connecting with friends or family being entertained friends or family being entertained friends or family being entertained there's nothing wrong with that being there's nothing wrong with that being there's nothing wrong with that being informed or learning um and so i think i informed or learning um and so i think i informed or learning um and so i think i think we all see the good of social think we all see the good of social think we all see the good of social media in some respect if i wrote a book media in some respect if i wrote a book media in some respect if i wrote a book about here's why social media is awesome about here's why social media is awesome about here's why social media is awesome people will be like well you don't need people will be like well you don't need people will be like well you don't need to tell me like i know why you know i to tell me like i know why you know i to tell me like i know why you know i know why i like it um but i do think know why i like it um but i do think know why i like it um but i do think there are there are there are a lot of things that we give up when we a lot of things that we give up when we a lot of things that we give up when we use social media i think it may be use social media i think it may be use social media i think it may be affecting us in some ways we just don't affecting us in some ways we just don't affecting us in some ways we just don't realize realize realize and so because of that i wanted to write and so because of that i wanted to write and so because of that i wanted to write a book that's just kind of a cautionary a book that's just kind of a cautionary a book that's just kind of a cautionary hey hey hey let's not use this stuff passively let's let's not use this stuff passively let's let's not use this stuff passively let's use this stuff intentionally um and and use this stuff intentionally um and and use this stuff intentionally um and and recognize that because it's kind of bent recognize that because it's kind of bent recognize that because it's kind of bent towards sin and destruction we need to towards sin and destruction we need to towards sin and destruction we need to make some concerted effort to not let it make some concerted effort to not let it make some concerted effort to not let it suck us in to using it for suck us in to using it for suck us in to using it for self-promotion or outright sin in other self-promotion or outright sin in other self-promotion or outright sin in other ways ways ways getting angry with people and fighting

getting angry with people and fighting getting angry with people and fighting and so the whole book the whole premise and so the whole book the whole premise and so the whole book the whole premise is kind of is kind of is kind of these tools were made to serve us and my these tools were made to serve us and my these tools were made to serve us and my fear is we've really come to serve these fear is we've really come to serve these fear is we've really come to serve these tools and what can we do to make that tools and what can we do to make that tools and what can we do to make that not the case so yeah that's kind of the not the case so yeah that's kind of the not the case so yeah that's kind of the impetus yeah i i you know impetus yeah i i you know impetus yeah i i you know so for our our audience i i watch the so for our our audience i i watch the so for our our audience i i watch the social dilemma you you probably have if social dilemma you you probably have if social dilemma you you probably have if you haven't you haven't you haven't check it out check it out check it out and i told my team you got to go watch and i told my team you got to go watch and i told my team you got to go watch this this this i'm going to say the same thing about i'm going to say the same thing about i'm going to say the same thing about your book your book your book because reading it i'm going okay this because reading it i'm going okay this because reading it i'm going okay this is good stuff but here's my question for is good stuff but here's my question for is good stuff but here's my question for you because through that lens of we you you because through that lens of we you you because through that lens of we you know most people listen this podcast know most people listen this podcast know most people listen this podcast work in the church work in the church work in the church um um um first of all first of all first of all people you want to read this because you people you want to read this because you people you want to read this because you want to be equipped and you want want to be equipped and you want want to be equipped and you want knowledge knowledge knowledge it's like the bible you should be it's like the bible you should be it's like the bible you should be reading your bible you know it's like a reading your bible you know it's like a reading your bible you know it's like a good thing to do good thing to do good thing to do um you should be you should read this um you should be you should read this um you should be you should read this book but i want to i'm curious from your book but i want to i'm curious from your book but i want to i'm curious from your perspective kiss chris how do we how perspective kiss chris how do we how perspective kiss chris how do we how does somebody who reads this book who does somebody who reads this book who does somebody who reads this book who works at a church works at a church works at a church how can they use that in their ministry how can they use that in their ministry how can they use that in their ministry what advice would you give somebody what advice would you give somebody what advice would you give somebody that's that's that's you know thinking about okay if i buy you know thinking about okay if i buy you know thinking about okay if i buy this book and read this book i'll use it this book and read this book i'll use it this book and read this book i'll use it personally great but how can i use it in personally great but how can i use it in personally great but how can i use it in my my my in my church in my church in my church yeah sure i would hope i think i have a yeah sure i would hope i think i have a yeah sure i would hope i think i have a thought on that on how it could be best thought on that on how it could be best thought on that on how it could be best used but first i want to mention social used but first i want to mention social used but first i want to mention social dilemma we talked about it a couple of dilemma we talked about it a couple of dilemma we talked about it a couple of times times times i remember when i watched that i think i remember when i watched that i think i remember when i watched that i think it was like fall like labor day 2020ish it was like fall like labor day 2020ish it was like fall like labor day 2020ish but at least when i watched it i forget but at least when i watched it i forget but at least when i watched it i forget when it came out yeah yeah when it came out yeah yeah when it came out yeah yeah but that's that's roughly when i watched but that's that's roughly when i watched but that's that's roughly when i watched it and i remember

it and i remember it and i remember i i was finishing the manuscript for i i was finishing the manuscript for i i was finishing the manuscript for terms of service when i watched it like terms of service when i watched it like terms of service when i watched it like i was in the last chapter and i was like i was in the last chapter and i was like i was in the last chapter and i was like i i i the they made a movie for my book the they made a movie for my book the they made a movie for my book already like i don't need to write the already like i don't need to write the already like i don't need to write the book the book everybody's gonna book the book everybody's gonna book the book everybody's gonna everybody's gonna feel like everybody's gonna feel like everybody's gonna feel like yeah everybody's gonna feel like i just yeah everybody's gonna feel like i just yeah everybody's gonna feel like i just watched the social dilemma and wrote a watched the social dilemma and wrote a watched the social dilemma and wrote a book version because literally like five book version because literally like five book version because literally like five or six of the people that they interview or six of the people that they interview or six of the people that they interview are the most commonly cited people in are the most commonly cited people in are the most commonly cited people in this book this book this book but i had already done it and i was like but i had already done it and i was like but i had already done it and i was like like the whole time i don't know if you like the whole time i don't know if you like the whole time i don't know if you guys have ever seen the leonardo guys have ever seen the leonardo guys have ever seen the leonardo dicaprio meme where he's like sitting in dicaprio meme where he's like sitting in dicaprio meme where he's like sitting in i think it's from wolf of wall street or i think it's from wolf of wall street or i think it's from wolf of wall street or something like that where he's like something like that where he's like something like that where he's like sitting in front of a tv and he's like sitting in front of a tv and he's like sitting in front of a tv and he's like pointing at the tv like he recognizes pointing at the tv like he recognizes pointing at the tv like he recognizes someone i'm like watching the social someone i'm like watching the social someone i'm like watching the social dilemma with my wife and i'm like i'm dilemma with my wife and i'm like i'm dilemma with my wife and i'm like i'm like i know that person wait i know that like i know that person wait i know that like i know that person wait i know that i've read that i've never i'd never hear i've read that i've never i'd never hear i've read that i've never i'd never hear that i never heard them talk before but that i never heard them talk before but that i never heard them talk before but had read their books and i was like oh i had read their books and i was like oh i had read their books and i was like oh i know that person they're real um so know that person they're real um so know that person they're real um so anyway that was just kind of a funny anyway that was just kind of a funny anyway that was just kind of a funny experience i had um experience i had um experience i had um hey bart blair here i'm the producer of hey bart blair here i'm the producer of hey bart blair here i'm the producer of missional marketing's church growth missional marketing's church growth missional marketing's church growth interviews podcast thanks so much for interviews podcast thanks so much for interviews podcast thanks so much for tuning in admissional marketing we're tuning in admissional marketing we're tuning in admissional marketing we're passionate about helping churches reach passionate about helping churches reach passionate about helping churches reach more people for jesus online and one of more people for jesus online and one of more people for jesus online and one of the ways that we do that is by helping the ways that we do that is by helping the ways that we do that is by helping churches acquire more new visitors to churches acquire more new visitors to churches acquire more new visitors to their website utilizing the google ad their website utilizing the google ad their website utilizing the google ad grant google offers qualifying grant google offers qualifying grant google offers qualifying non-profits including churches up to ten non-profits including churches up to ten non-profits including churches up to ten thousand dollars a month in advertising thousand dollars a month in advertising thousand dollars a month in advertising that means that you as a church could be that means that you as a church could be that means that you as a church could be using google as one of your primary using google as one of your primary using google as one of your primary digital outreach strategies to digital outreach strategies to digital outreach strategies to communicate the gospel and reach more communicate the gospel and reach more communicate the gospel and reach more people in your community if you'd like people in your community if you'd like people in your community if you'd like to learn more visit our website at to learn more visit our website at to learn more visit our website at missionalmarketing.com missionalmarketing.com missionalmarketing.com and click the link at the top of the

and click the link at the top of the and click the link at the top of the page that says google grant we'd love an page that says google grant we'd love an page that says google grant we'd love an opportunity to partner with you in your opportunity to partner with you in your opportunity to partner with you in your mission to build god's kingdom here on mission to build god's kingdom here on mission to build god's kingdom here on earth well thanks again for listening to earth well thanks again for listening to earth well thanks again for listening to our podcast and now back to the show so our podcast and now back to the show so our podcast and now back to the show so yeah how's this helpful for churches yeah how's this helpful for churches yeah how's this helpful for churches like or like how my a pastor or church like or like how my a pastor or church like or like how my a pastor or church leader who's listening find this like as leader who's listening find this like as leader who's listening find this like as an actual resource i mean i would i wish an actual resource i mean i would i wish an actual resource i mean i would i wish and maybe if it sells well enough we and maybe if it sells well enough we and maybe if it sells well enough we could do this i'd love for there to be a could do this i'd love for there to be a could do this i'd love for there to be a sort of study resource affiliated with sort of study resource affiliated with sort of study resource affiliated with this because i think i think it could be this because i think i think it could be this because i think i think it could be helpful you know just to create a sort helpful you know just to create a sort helpful you know just to create a sort of workbook of sorts but how i would use of workbook of sorts but how i would use of workbook of sorts but how i would use it um and perhaps i will at some point it um and perhaps i will at some point it um and perhaps i will at some point how i would use it is how i would use it is how i would use it is um in a small group setting perhaps even um in a small group setting perhaps even um in a small group setting perhaps even a sunday school setting a sunday school setting a sunday school setting assign the book to everyone to read um assign the book to everyone to read um assign the book to everyone to read um and perhaps you meet weekly as a small and perhaps you meet weekly as a small and perhaps you meet weekly as a small group like my community group i lead a group like my community group i lead a group like my community group i lead a community group we meet weekly community group we meet weekly community group we meet weekly or if you have a sunday school class or if you have a sunday school class or if you have a sunday school class that meets weekly assign a chapter a that meets weekly assign a chapter a that meets weekly assign a chapter a week you read the chapter for homework week you read the chapter for homework week you read the chapter for homework you come back maybe maybe two chapters you come back maybe maybe two chapters you come back maybe maybe two chapters because some of them are quite short because some of them are quite short because some of them are quite short you read the chapter during the week and you read the chapter during the week and you read the chapter during the week and you know as the as the leader because i you know as the as the leader because i you know as the as the leader because i did not create any discussion questions did not create any discussion questions did not create any discussion questions because it simply wasn't in our heads as because it simply wasn't in our heads as because it simply wasn't in our heads as we were creating the manuscript you we were creating the manuscript you we were creating the manuscript you could create some discussion questions could create some discussion questions could create some discussion questions yourself as the leader of your small yourself as the leader of your small yourself as the leader of your small group or sunday school class um and come group or sunday school class um and come group or sunday school class um and come back every sunday morning or back every sunday morning or back every sunday morning or at your community group on tuesday at your community group on tuesday at your community group on tuesday nights or something like that and nights or something like that and nights or something like that and discuss what you read because i think discuss what you read because i think discuss what you read because i think that a book like this truly is best read that a book like this truly is best read that a book like this truly is best read in community with other people um in community with other people um in community with other people um because you because you because you you can learn from their reflections on you can learn from their reflections on you can learn from their reflections on it everybody has a different experience it everybody has a different experience it everybody has a different experience with social media that's part of what with social media that's part of what with social media that's part of what kind of makes it cool and unique

kind of makes it cool and unique kind of makes it cool and unique and so i think every i think it's and so i think every i think it's and so i think every i think it's like i think this frankly does make a like i think this frankly does make a like i think this frankly does make a good book club book um and i don't say good book club book um and i don't say good book club book um and i don't say that because that would sell more books that because that would sell more books that because that would sell more books per se i suppose everybody could read it per se i suppose everybody could read it per se i suppose everybody could read it on their own but i think it it is a book on their own but i think it it is a book on their own but i think it it is a book that mer in a topic that merits that mer in a topic that merits that mer in a topic that merits discussion and hearing from other people discussion and hearing from other people discussion and hearing from other people and hearing from other people's and hearing from other people's and hearing from other people's experiences experiences experiences and i think also that would be a good and i think also that would be a good and i think also that would be a good application of one of the principles of application of one of the principles of application of one of the principles of a later chapter about building community a later chapter about building community a later chapter about building community with people and establishing with people and establishing with people and establishing accountability i think establishing accountability i think establishing accountability i think establishing accountability for social media use accountability for social media use accountability for social media use meaning just having a friend who can meaning just having a friend who can meaning just having a friend who can call you out if you're acting a fool in call you out if you're acting a fool in call you out if you're acting a fool in the facebook comments section or the facebook comments section or the facebook comments section or something like that um i think you could something like that um i think you could something like that um i think you could even if you're discussing terms of even if you're discussing terms of even if you're discussing terms of service in a group with people a small service in a group with people a small service in a group with people a small group or otherwise that could kind of group or otherwise that could kind of group or otherwise that could kind of become your group of accountability become your group of accountability become your group of accountability friends who have permission to call you friends who have permission to call you friends who have permission to call you out if they see you acting foolish you out if they see you acting foolish you out if they see you acting foolish you know so that's how if i were if i were know so that's how if i were if i were know so that's how if i were if i were in that situation that's probably the in that situation that's probably the in that situation that's probably the best way that i would use it i mean our best way that i would use it i mean our best way that i would use it i mean our family doesn't really use social media family doesn't really use social media family doesn't really use social media at all is linked in social media that's at all is linked in social media that's at all is linked in social media that's probably the only thing i'm on right my probably the only thing i'm on right my probably the only thing i'm on right my kids don't use them my wife doesn't use kids don't use them my wife doesn't use kids don't use them my wife doesn't use it but social me it's still it's like it but social me it's still it's like it but social me it's still it's like oxygen it's not going away and we don't oxygen it's not going away and we don't oxygen it's not going away and we don't you know it's oxygen needed to stay you know it's oxygen needed to stay you know it's oxygen needed to stay alive but it's not going away and and so alive but it's not going away and and so alive but it's not going away and and so yet that's why i think it's so important yet that's why i think it's so important yet that's why i think it's so important for churches in particular that you for churches in particular that you for churches in particular that you should really you need to address this should really you need to address this should really you need to address this and no doubt and no doubt and no doubt some churches that we just talked about some churches that we just talked about some churches that we just talked about have literally gone in extreme to say we have literally gone in extreme to say we have literally gone in extreme to say we don't even want to we're not even going don't even want to we're not even going don't even want to we're not even going to have social media we're going to take to have social media we're going to take to have social media we're going to take it out of our yeah but really your it out of our yeah but really your it out of our yeah but really your congregation isn't they're still being congregation isn't they're still being congregation isn't they're still being bombarded they're still using it so why bombarded they're still using it so why bombarded they're still using it so why don't you address it

don't you address it don't you address it i guess that's my but i i really i like i guess that's my but i i really i like i guess that's my but i i really i like your approach there to say to have it your approach there to say to have it your approach there to say to have it like kind of a small group setting so as like kind of a small group setting so as like kind of a small group setting so as a pastor myself what i realized is that a pastor myself what i realized is that a pastor myself what i realized is that even though i don't want to necessarily even though i don't want to necessarily even though i don't want to necessarily be discipled by social media and the be discipled by social media and the be discipled by social media and the social internet social internet social internet the people that i am shepherding are the people that i am shepherding are the people that i am shepherding are being discipled by those things and i being discipled by those things and i being discipled by those things and i can i can bury my head in the sand and can i can bury my head in the sand and can i can bury my head in the sand and say social media bad i'm not going to say social media bad i'm not going to say social media bad i'm not going to play with it i'm not going to use it or play with it i'm not going to use it or play with it i'm not going to use it or i can really try to tune in to know and i can really try to tune in to know and i can really try to tune in to know and to understand the sociological impacts to understand the sociological impacts to understand the sociological impacts of social media so that i can better of social media so that i can better of social media so that i can better shepherd and lead the people that god shepherd and lead the people that god shepherd and lead the people that god has called me to lead as a pastor and i has called me to lead as a pastor and i has called me to lead as a pastor and i think that's you know think that's you know think that's you know i think i think i think one of the things that you cite early in one of the things that you cite early in one of the things that you cite early in the book chris is that you know you can the book chris is that you know you can the book chris is that you know you can get off of social media you can delete get off of social media you can delete get off of social media you can delete all the apps off of your phone you can all the apps off of your phone you can all the apps off of your phone you can you know cancel all of your accounts you know cancel all of your accounts you know cancel all of your accounts but you can't but you can't but you can't get away from the fact that social media get away from the fact that social media get away from the fact that social media is still shaping our culture it's is still shaping our culture it's is still shaping our culture it's shaping our world it will shape the next shaping our world it will shape the next shaping our world it will shape the next political election regardless of what political election regardless of what political election regardless of what facebook and twitter try to do or claim facebook and twitter try to do or claim facebook and twitter try to do or claim they're doing so that it won't it will they're doing so that it won't it will they're doing so that it won't it will and so you know i think it's just like and so you know i think it's just like and so you know i think it's just like anything you know the apostle paul says anything you know the apostle paul says anything you know the apostle paul says you know all things are permissible but you know all things are permissible but you know all things are permissible but i want to make sure that i'm in control i want to make sure that i'm in control i want to make sure that i'm in control of things things can't control me right of things things can't control me right of things things can't control me right i i need to be in control of these i i need to be in control of these i i need to be in control of these things and i think that there's danger things and i think that there's danger things and i think that there's danger of social media reshaping of social media reshaping of social media reshaping um how we behave uh one of the things um how we behave uh one of the things um how we behave uh one of the things again i want to highlight again i want to highlight again i want to highlight that you wrote in the book is the fact

that you wrote in the book is the fact that you wrote in the book is the fact that you that you that you you pinpoint the fact that social media you pinpoint the fact that social media you pinpoint the fact that social media is a is a is a is a is a is a place where people seem to be shaping place where people seem to be shaping place where people seem to be shaping their self-identity their self-worth their self-identity their self-worth their self-identity their self-worth their self-value their self-value their self-value and we expect the world to go to worldly and we expect the world to go to worldly and we expect the world to go to worldly places to do that but as followers of places to do that but as followers of places to do that but as followers of jesus our identity jesus our identity jesus our identity is first as sons and daughters of our is first as sons and daughters of our is first as sons and daughters of our heavenly father as redeemed children as heavenly father as redeemed children as heavenly father as redeemed children as co-heirs with jesus christ that's our co-heirs with jesus christ that's our co-heirs with jesus christ that's our identity and we need to be very very identity and we need to be very very identity and we need to be very very cautious and set up real clear cautious and set up real clear cautious and set up real clear boundaries for ourselves that we don't boundaries for ourselves that we don't boundaries for ourselves that we don't lose lose lose touch touch touch that identity that identity that identity by by by what we get wrapped up in on tick tock what we get wrapped up in on tick tock what we get wrapped up in on tick tock or instagram reels or whatever it is or instagram reels or whatever it is or instagram reels or whatever it is that's that's that's getting us the likes and the dopamine getting us the likes and the dopamine getting us the likes and the dopamine hits that we tend to keep going back for hits that we tend to keep going back for hits that we tend to keep going back for so i'll get off my soapbox now and let so i'll get off my soapbox now and let so i'll get off my soapbox now and let chris talk some more anything you want chris talk some more anything you want chris talk some more anything you want to comment on there chris to comment on there chris to comment on there chris yeah no i agree uh i think that's all yeah no i agree uh i think that's all yeah no i agree uh i think that's all that's all right um one of the i was that's all right um one of the i was that's all right um one of the i was trying to find the exact quote as you trying to find the exact quote as you trying to find the exact quote as you were talking there in the in the were talking there in the in the were talking there in the in the manuscript um one of the best quotes manuscript um one of the best quotes manuscript um one of the best quotes that i've heard on social media in the that i've heard on social media in the that i've heard on social media in the last couple of years and it's um last couple of years and it's um last couple of years and it's um it's from bo burnham who's a a comedian it's from bo burnham who's a a comedian it's from bo burnham who's a a comedian um and and i can't um and and i can't um and and i can't i've joked about this a couple times i i've joked about this a couple times i i've joked about this a couple times i can't officially recommend his comedy can't officially recommend his comedy can't officially recommend his comedy specials because they're quite vulgar so specials because they're quite vulgar so specials because they're quite vulgar so uh know that i can't officially uh know that i can't officially uh know that i can't officially recommend them but he's he's one of the recommend them but he's he's one of the recommend them but he's he's one of the most incisive and insightful most incisive and insightful most incisive and insightful observers of modern culture around um

observers of modern culture around um observers of modern culture around um and he's he's a comedian that frankly and he's he's a comedian that frankly and he's he's a comedian that frankly that's uh ironically became very popular that's uh ironically became very popular that's uh ironically became very popular on youtube when youtube first started he on youtube when youtube first started he on youtube when youtube first started he and i are about the same age so he's and i are about the same age so he's and i are about the same age so he's roughly 31 and so he was creating roughly 31 and so he was creating roughly 31 and so he was creating youtube videos back in like oh seven youtube videos back in like oh seven youtube videos back in like oh seven like when youtube was first getting like when youtube was first getting like when youtube was first getting started and that's that's how he became started and that's that's how he became started and that's that's how he became they were like comedy songs also quite they were like comedy songs also quite they were like comedy songs also quite vulgar but then he became uh he's been a vulgar but then he became uh he's been a vulgar but then he became uh he's been a director a stand-up comedian and like a director a stand-up comedian and like a director a stand-up comedian and like a writer for for programs writer for for programs writer for for programs and um he he created the uh the movie and um he he created the uh the movie and um he he created the uh the movie eighth grade which kind of depicts the eighth grade which kind of depicts the eighth grade which kind of depicts the modern eighth grade experience small modern eighth grade experience small modern eighth grade experience small note on that that movie is very profound note on that that movie is very profound note on that that movie is very profound and and a fascinating and very accurate and and a fascinating and very accurate and and a fascinating and very accurate look into what it's like to be an eighth look into what it's like to be an eighth look into what it's like to be an eighth grader in our modern times like with the grader in our modern times like with the grader in our modern times like with the social internet and things like that and social internet and things like that and social internet and things like that and he he he he narratively because it's not a he narratively because it's not a he narratively because it's not a documentary like it's a movie um he documentary like it's a movie um he documentary like it's a movie um he depicts very accurately what it's like depicts very accurately what it's like depicts very accurately what it's like to be a middle schooler with social to be a middle schooler with social to be a middle schooler with social media in your pocket all the time and media in your pocket all the time and media in your pocket all the time and all the actors who are all the eighth all the actors who are all the eighth all the actors who are all the eighth graders in the movie are actually eighth graders in the movie are actually eighth graders in the movie are actually eighth graders and graders and graders and um what's what's ironic about that movie um what's what's ironic about that movie um what's what's ironic about that movie it's very good i think you can stream it it's very good i think you can stream it it's very good i think you can stream it wherever you want to stream stuff um wherever you want to stream stuff um wherever you want to stream stuff um he what's ironic about that movie is he what's ironic about that movie is he what's ironic about that movie is it's rated r it's rated r it's rated r and so an eighth grader theoretically and so an eighth grader theoretically and so an eighth grader theoretically could not go view a movie that i think could not go view a movie that i think could not go view a movie that i think pretty accurately depicts the eighth pretty accurately depicts the eighth pretty accurately depicts the eighth grade experience right isn't that kind grade experience right isn't that kind grade experience right isn't that kind of funny like yeah the eighth the eighth of funny like yeah the eighth the eighth of funny like yeah the eighth the eighth grade experience in 2022 is is quite grade experience in 2022 is is quite grade experience in 2022 is is quite rated r frankly um but anyway so he says rated r frankly um but anyway so he says rated r frankly um but anyway so he says in as he was doing a um in as he was doing a um in as he was doing a um as he as he as he was he created a netflix special during

was he created a netflix special during was he created a netflix special during the pandemic uh it's called inside the pandemic uh it's called inside the pandemic uh it's called inside and and and he says during that netflix special he he says during that netflix special he he says during that netflix special he says the non-digital world says the non-digital world says the non-digital world is merely a theatrical space is merely a theatrical space is merely a theatrical space in which one stages and records content in which one stages and records content in which one stages and records content for the much more real much more vital for the much more real much more vital for the much more real much more vital digital space digital space digital space and one of my greatest concerns and one and one of my greatest concerns and one and one of my greatest concerns and one of the reasons this netflix special did of the reasons this netflix special did of the reasons this netflix special did not come out uh before i wrote this book not come out uh before i wrote this book not come out uh before i wrote this book but he that really captures one of my but he that really captures one of my but he that really captures one of my biggest concerns in biggest concerns in biggest concerns in my writing of this book is that my writing of this book is that my writing of this book is that many of us have started to live our many of us have started to live our many of us have started to live our lives as though the online experience is lives as though the online experience is lives as though the online experience is our primary form of existence and our our primary form of existence and our our primary form of existence and our offline experience our offline lives are offline experience our offline lives are offline experience our offline lives are downstream of what happens on the downstream of what happens on the downstream of what happens on the internet because it used to be you guys internet because it used to be you guys internet because it used to be you guys are old enough to remember as we are old enough to remember as we are old enough to remember as we described our first experiences with the described our first experiences with the described our first experiences with the internet mine was when i was in the internet mine was when i was in the internet mine was when i was in the first grade logging onto aol instant first grade logging onto aol instant first grade logging onto aol instant messenger messenger messenger um and and um and and um and and you know we all have our own first you know we all have our own first you know we all have our own first experiences but we've all been around experiences but we've all been around experiences but we've all been around long enough to remember those early long enough to remember those early long enough to remember those early times it used to be that the internet times it used to be that the internet times it used to be that the internet was a sort of reflection of what was a sort of reflection of what was a sort of reflection of what happened offline happened offline happened offline like there was a whole lot of culture like there was a whole lot of culture like there was a whole lot of culture being created on the internet it was being created on the internet it was being created on the internet it was kind of a reflection of popular culture kind of a reflection of popular culture kind of a reflection of popular culture of offline today we all know of offline today we all know of offline today we all know that that that plenty of culture is created on the plenty of culture is created on the plenty of culture is created on the internet and that it really flows the internet and that it really flows the internet and that it really flows the water flows the opposite way there's a water flows the opposite way there's a water flows the opposite way there's a lot of culture that's created online lot of culture that's created online lot of culture that's created online that then flows downstream to our that then flows downstream to our that then flows downstream to our offline existence if you doubt this just offline existence if you doubt this just offline existence if you doubt this just ask yourself how many times you've heard

ask yourself how many times you've heard ask yourself how many times you've heard your local or world news program of your local or world news program of your local or world news program of choice cover what a politician does on choice cover what a politician does on choice cover what a politician does on social media in the last five years social media in the last five years social media in the last five years right like you want to talk about right like you want to talk about right like you want to talk about culture streaming downstream to offline culture streaming downstream to offline culture streaming downstream to offline life i mean that's a perfect example um life i mean that's a perfect example um life i mean that's a perfect example um and so one of my biggest concerns is and so one of my biggest concerns is and so one of my biggest concerns is that that that we start to view our offline lives here we start to view our offline lives here we start to view our offline lives here the real embodied space as a means sort the real embodied space as a means sort the real embodied space as a means sort of a mine to farm content for who we of a mine to farm content for who we of a mine to farm content for who we want to create ourselves to be on the want to create ourselves to be on the want to create ourselves to be on the internet um and so that's a big concern internet um and so that's a big concern internet um and so that's a big concern of mine and kind of a trend that i mean of mine and kind of a trend that i mean of mine and kind of a trend that i mean just look how many people like vacation just look how many people like vacation just look how many people like vacation to places just for the content like to places just for the content like to places just for the content like there are people who will go to national there are people who will go to national there are people who will go to national parks and be more obsessed with getting parks and be more obsessed with getting parks and be more obsessed with getting the content than actually enjoying the the content than actually enjoying the the content than actually enjoying the scenery for itself or like how many scenery for itself or like how many scenery for itself or like how many weddings have you been to in the last weddings have you been to in the last weddings have you been to in the last two or three years that didn't have an two or three years that didn't have an two or three years that didn't have an instagram hashtag attached to them instagram hashtag attached to them instagram hashtag attached to them there's nothing wrong with that i'm just there's nothing wrong with that i'm just there's nothing wrong with that i'm just saying like a lot of our saying like a lot of our saying like a lot of our offline experiences are being offline experiences are being offline experiences are being formed to be consumed as content and i formed to be consumed as content and i formed to be consumed as content and i think that could think that could think that could in some ways already has but could in some ways already has but could in some ways already has but could become a problem down the road and so i become a problem down the road and so i become a problem down the road and so i think that's something we should be think that's something we should be think that's something we should be aware of aware of aware of and again not to say that all social and again not to say that all social and again not to say that all social media bad never use social media but media bad never use social media but media bad never use social media but it's more of just like an awareness like it's more of just like an awareness like it's more of just like an awareness like be present enjoy your offline life be present enjoy your offline life be present enjoy your offline life because if you because if you because if you if you start to live for the internet i if you start to live for the internet i if you start to live for the internet i mean we all know how that could start to mean we all know how that could start to mean we all know how that could start to go sideways pretty quickly go sideways pretty quickly go sideways pretty quickly yeah yeah yeah yeah it's like yeah i the wedding thing yeah it's like yeah i the wedding thing yeah it's like yeah i the wedding thing made so much sense to me because i have made so much sense to me because i have made so much sense to me because i have been to weddings that were basically been to weddings that were basically been to weddings that were basically designed to be

designed to be designed to be an online experience right the wedding an online experience right the wedding an online experience right the wedding wasn't primarily wasn't primarily wasn't primarily for for for the people who were there in person the people who were there in person the people who were there in person the wedding was set up and designed so the wedding was set up and designed so the wedding was set up and designed so that it could be instagrammed really that it could be instagrammed really that it could be instagrammed really really well and get lots of likes and really well and get lots of likes and really well and get lots of likes and lots of shares and lots of comments and lots of shares and lots of comments and lots of shares and lots of comments and that's a very very interesting that's a very very interesting that's a very very interesting dude it's pretty crazy stuff yeah dude it's pretty crazy stuff yeah dude it's pretty crazy stuff yeah there's a marriage happening after that there's a marriage happening after that there's a marriage happening after that you know you might want to invest you know you might want to invest you know you might want to invest right right yeah right right yeah right right yeah yeah i wonder how many f i wonder how yeah i wonder how many f i wonder how yeah i wonder how many f i wonder how many photo booths there were at weddings many photo booths there were at weddings many photo booths there were at weddings before like 2012. before like 2012. before like 2012. were there as many i don't know were there as many i don't know were there as many i don't know i don't know that's a good question i don't know that's a good question i don't know that's a good question that's about when i started to go to that's about when i started to go to that's about when i started to go to weddings but photo booths are you gotta weddings but photo booths are you gotta weddings but photo booths are you gotta do it for the gram man you gotta do it do it for the gram man you gotta do it do it for the gram man you gotta do it for the gram as they say ours was you for the gram as they say ours was you for the gram as they say ours was you know the the little know the the little know the the little portable like you know you had to wind portable like you know you had to wind portable like you know you had to wind it up and take a picture we had a bunch it up and take a picture we had a bunch it up and take a picture we had a bunch of those was that your favorite yeah of those was that your favorite yeah of those was that your favorite yeah yeah the disposable yeah you'd get the yeah the disposable yeah you'd get the yeah the disposable yeah you'd get the disposable disposable disposable cameras that would go on all the tables cameras that would go on all the tables cameras that would go on all the tables yeah so those are those are coming back yeah so those are those are coming back yeah so those are those are coming back in fashion so as in fashion so as in fashion so as as the tides are starting to shift as the tides are starting to shift as the tides are starting to shift um um um more people are doing that again first more people are doing that again first more people are doing that again first of all there are more like physical of all there are more like physical of all there are more like physical cameras being sold than there have been cameras being sold than there have been cameras being sold than there have been recent like in recent years and i think recent like in recent years and i think recent like in recent years and i think i i might be speaking at a term my i i might be speaking at a term my i i might be speaking at a term my brother's wedding is actually later this brother's wedding is actually later this brother's wedding is actually later this spring i think they're putting those at spring i think they're putting those at spring i think they're putting those at all the tables oh really yeah yeah to all the tables oh really yeah yeah to all the tables oh really yeah yeah to create a sort of like physical you know create a sort of like physical you know create a sort of like physical you know memento and that sort of thing so anyway memento and that sort of thing so anyway memento and that sort of thing so anyway it's funny how you say that be careful it's funny how you say that be careful it's funny how you say that be careful because you only get like 20 clicks so because you only get like 20 clicks so because you only get like 20 clicks so you're right right you just keep you're right right you just keep you're right right you just keep yeah it's not it's not like your phone

yeah it's not it's not like your phone yeah it's not it's not like your phone you just upload to the cloud so you you just upload to the cloud so you you just upload to the cloud so you clear more space clear more space clear more space right now guys guys i'm not that young right now guys guys i'm not that young right now guys guys i'm not that young like i remember like i remember like i remember well you are i have a i have a step well you are i have a i have a step well you are i have a i have a step daughter the same age as you so i yeah daughter the same age as you so i yeah daughter the same age as you so i yeah i'm feeling old right now hey i wanted i'm feeling old right now hey i wanted i'm feeling old right now hey i wanted to highlight one of my one of my to highlight one of my one of my to highlight one of my one of my favorite quotes i've highlighted a bunch favorite quotes i've highlighted a bunch favorite quotes i've highlighted a bunch of stuff and i'm i'm gonna i'm gonna of stuff and i'm i'm gonna i'm gonna of stuff and i'm i'm gonna i'm gonna share it online share it online share it online i'm gonna share it on my social media i'm gonna share it on my social media i'm gonna share it on my social media accounts uh you know what i i shared accounts uh you know what i i shared accounts uh you know what i i shared before we started recording that um i before we started recording that um i before we started recording that um i used social media used social media used social media as a way of really trying to share the as a way of really trying to share the as a way of really trying to share the hope that i have in jesus i don't scroll hope that i have in jesus i don't scroll hope that i have in jesus i don't scroll a lot on social media and this these are a lot on social media and this these are a lot on social media and this these are some of these have been recent changes some of these have been recent changes some of these have been recent changes i've made in my own personal social i've made in my own personal social i've made in my own personal social media habits so i share media habits so i share media habits so i share and i you know but my older son just and i you know but my older son just and i you know but my older son just graduated from graduated from graduated from army boot camp and we took photos and it army boot camp and we took photos and it army boot camp and we took photos and it was a it was a shareable experience for was a it was a shareable experience for was a it was a shareable experience for us um and a lot of friends and family us um and a lot of friends and family us um and a lot of friends and family from around the world wanted to see what from around the world wanted to see what from around the world wanted to see what was going on and so we shared some was going on and so we shared some was going on and so we shared some instagram and some facebook photos of instagram and some facebook photos of instagram and some facebook photos of that experience but i don't spend a that experience but i don't spend a that experience but i don't spend a whole lot of time uh scrolling but one whole lot of time uh scrolling but one whole lot of time uh scrolling but one of the things that you you said um wrote of the things that you you said um wrote of the things that you you said um wrote in the book that kind of made me pause in the book that kind of made me pause in the book that kind of made me pause and start thinking and start thinking and start thinking not just about the social media not just about the social media not just about the social media implications but i think the implications but i think the implications but i think the implications as a whole in our culture implications as a whole in our culture implications as a whole in our culture today this was the quote i'm pretty sure today this was the quote i'm pretty sure today this was the quote i'm pretty sure this was you and not you quoting someone this was you and not you quoting someone this was you and not you quoting someone else else else many of us are addicted to the social many of us are addicted to the social many of us are addicted to the social internet because we are addicted to

internet because we are addicted to internet because we are addicted to attention and affirmation attention and affirmation attention and affirmation actually i can confirm that was you actually i can confirm that was you actually i can confirm that was you because you're the only person in the because you're the only person in the because you're the only person in the book that uses the term social internet book that uses the term social internet book that uses the term social internet so it was you chris martin said this so it was you chris martin said this so it was you chris martin said this many of us are addicted to the social many of us are addicted to the social many of us are addicted to the social internet because we are addicted to internet because we are addicted to internet because we are addicted to attention and affirmation and i think attention and affirmation and i think attention and affirmation and i think when i read that when i read that when i read that what i realized is that that is not a what i realized is that that is not a what i realized is that that is not a new phenomenon that is something i think new phenomenon that is something i think new phenomenon that is something i think that is you know as old as man that is you know as old as man that is you know as old as man has existed on this planet but what has existed on this planet but what has existed on this planet but what social media and the internet social media and the internet social media and the internet has done has done has done is it's amplified it it's given us a is it's amplified it it's given us a is it's amplified it it's given us a different place and a different different place and a different different place and a different mechanism out of which to seek that mechanism out of which to seek that mechanism out of which to seek that attention and that affirmation and maybe attention and that affirmation and maybe attention and that affirmation and maybe that's the piece that's kind of gotten that's the piece that's kind of gotten that's the piece that's kind of gotten out of control and warped it i think out of control and warped it i think out of control and warped it i think it's also warped people's young peoples it's also warped people's young peoples it's also warped people's young peoples as they've grown up their identity as they've grown up their identity as they've grown up their identity and and and i have seen i have seen i have seen personally families that have had kids personally families that have had kids personally families that have had kids that have gone down a path they would that have gone down a path they would that have gone down a path they would never have gone down if they didn't have never have gone down if they didn't have never have gone down if they didn't have this phone in their hand this phone in their hand this phone in their hand and they're glued to it and they're glued to it and they're glued to it consuming the things that social media consuming the things that social media consuming the things that social media was given to them was given to them was given to them and so i what's your response to that i and so i what's your response to that i and so i what's your response to that i mean i knew you talked about that so mean i knew you talked about that so mean i knew you talked about that so that quote that quote that quote give us some some background your give us some some background your give us some some background your thoughts between about i mean it's it's thoughts between about i mean it's it's thoughts between about i mean it's it's like it's like it's like it's you know you know you know like you said bart like you said bart like you said bart wanting attention wanting affirmation is wanting attention wanting affirmation is wanting attention wanting affirmation is nothing new nothing new nothing new um um um but wanting something and having access

but wanting something and having access but wanting something and having access to it to it to it are are different things um and and how are are different things um and and how are are different things um and and how we access what we desperately want we access what we desperately want we access what we desperately want matters so i think take like this isn't matters so i think take like this isn't matters so i think take like this isn't like a one-to-one example because like a one-to-one example because like a one-to-one example because they're quite different but take like they're quite different but take like they're quite different but take like alcohol as an example um somebody who alcohol as an example um somebody who alcohol as an example um somebody who wants alcohol wants alcohol wants alcohol but doesn't have it on their person at but doesn't have it on their person at but doesn't have it on their person at all times there are some hoops and all times there are some hoops and all times there are some hoops and obstacles you have to go through to obstacles you have to go through to obstacles you have to go through to actually consume alcohol you have to go actually consume alcohol you have to go actually consume alcohol you have to go to your local liquor store or grocery to your local liquor store or grocery to your local liquor store or grocery store to con to purchase the kind of store to con to purchase the kind of store to con to purchase the kind of alcohol you you want you need to be of a alcohol you you want you need to be of a alcohol you you want you need to be of a certain age um you need to be able to certain age um you need to be able to certain age um you need to be able to get there and get home there are some get there and get home there are some get there and get home there are some steps that it takes to steps that it takes to steps that it takes to to access what you want and then consume to access what you want and then consume to access what you want and then consume what it is that you want alcohol being what it is that you want alcohol being what it is that you want alcohol being the example here and in the same way the the example here and in the same way the the example here and in the same way the kind of parallel here alcohol regardless kind of parallel here alcohol regardless kind of parallel here alcohol regardless taking sin or morality out of it because taking sin or morality out of it because taking sin or morality out of it because there are different perspectives on what there are different perspectives on what there are different perspectives on what it is and is not permissible as far as it is and is not permissible as far as it is and is not permissible as far as what scripture says but from a what scripture says but from a what scripture says but from a non-christian just kind of human non-christian just kind of human non-christian just kind of human perspective alcohol and moderation is perspective alcohol and moderation is perspective alcohol and moderation is acceptable culturally alcohol in in acceptable culturally alcohol in in acceptable culturally alcohol in in excess amounts is excess amounts is excess amounts is drunkenness and and can lead to all drunkenness and and can lead to all drunkenness and and can lead to all kinds of issues and even you know is kinds of issues and even you know is kinds of issues and even you know is illegal if you go try and drive illegal if you go try and drive illegal if you go try and drive somewhere right and so so that is somewhere right and so so that is somewhere right and so so that is something that you can want but if you something that you can want but if you something that you can want but if you have limited access to have limited access to have limited access to it's harder for it to become a problem it's harder for it to become a problem it's harder for it to become a problem now if you gave everyone access to now if you gave everyone access to now if you gave everyone access to alcohol 24 7 in their pocket you could alcohol 24 7 in their pocket you could alcohol 24 7 in their pocket you could just magically make alcohol appear into just magically make alcohol appear into just magically make alcohol appear into their pocket at any time their pocket at any time their pocket at any time i think it's fair to say you may have a i think it's fair to say you may have a i think it's fair to say you may have a little bit more common problem with little bit more common problem with little bit more common problem with alcoholism right because there are fewer

alcoholism right because there are fewer alcoholism right because there are fewer obstacles to be able to access the obstacles to be able to access the obstacles to be able to access the alcohol you have to go to the grocery alcohol you have to go to the grocery alcohol you have to go to the grocery store you don't have to be 21. um there store you don't have to be 21. um there store you don't have to be 21. um there you don't have to spend money for it um you don't have to spend money for it um you don't have to spend money for it um in the same way we can we can be in the same way we can we can be in the same way we can we can be addicted to attention and effort we can addicted to attention and effort we can addicted to attention and effort we can want attention and affirmation want attention and affirmation want attention and affirmation but if we if you drop something into our but if we if you drop something into our but if we if you drop something into our pockets this magic box with a screen on pockets this magic box with a screen on pockets this magic box with a screen on it where we can access it at all times it where we can access it at all times it where we can access it at all times 24 7 with no restraint age-wise or 24 7 with no restraint age-wise or 24 7 with no restraint age-wise or whatever else cost is very cheap once whatever else cost is very cheap once whatever else cost is very cheap once you buy the phone in fact it's free on you buy the phone in fact it's free on you buy the phone in fact it's free on these social media platforms these social media platforms these social media platforms you're more likely to engage in that you're more likely to engage in that you're more likely to engage in that addiction and that lust for attention addiction and that lust for attention addiction and that lust for attention and affirmation than if you had to go to and affirmation than if you had to go to and affirmation than if you had to go to a social function you know pre-social a social function you know pre-social a social function you know pre-social media you had to like actually go to a media you had to like actually go to a media you had to like actually go to a social function or go talk to your social function or go talk to your social function or go talk to your neighbors if you're looking for neighbors if you're looking for neighbors if you're looking for affirmation and attention it's a lot affirmation and attention it's a lot affirmation and attention it's a lot harder to get it whereas right now you harder to get it whereas right now you harder to get it whereas right now you just pull it out of your pocket and do just pull it out of your pocket and do just pull it out of your pocket and do whatever it is you need to do to get whatever it is you need to do to get whatever it is you need to do to get attention and affirmation does that make attention and affirmation does that make attention and affirmation does that make sense so i think that sense so i think that sense so i think that the the sort of insertion of it into our the the sort of insertion of it into our the the sort of insertion of it into our pockets and the accessibility of it 24 7 pockets and the accessibility of it 24 7 pockets and the accessibility of it 24 7 uh takes our addiction to it to a whole uh takes our addiction to it to a whole uh takes our addiction to it to a whole another level another level another level which will which will which will cause all kinds of destruction cause all kinds of destruction cause all kinds of destruction marriages marriages marriages yeah parent the family unit i mean let yeah parent the family unit i mean let yeah parent the family unit i mean let me add one one note here and i say this me add one one note here and i say this me add one one note here and i say this i don't know if i say it in the book i don't know if i say it in the book i don't know if i say it in the book quite like this or not i think i do quite like this or not i think i do quite like this or not i think i do um um um there's nothing wrong with like wanting there's nothing wrong with like wanting there's nothing wrong with like wanting to connect with people online or even to connect with people online or even to connect with people online or even like wanting to get attention or like wanting to get attention or like wanting to get attention or affirmation like affirmation is a good affirmation like affirmation is a good affirmation like affirmation is a good thing to want thing to want thing to want but i think what makes affirmation and but i think what makes affirmation and but i think what makes affirmation and attention on the internet so appealing

attention on the internet so appealing attention on the internet so appealing versus like community and real in like versus like community and real in like versus like community and real in like real offline existence real offline existence real offline existence is is is when you search out feelings of love and when you search out feelings of love and when you search out feelings of love and affirmation and attention online affirmation and attention online affirmation and attention online we all want that and and on the internet we all want that and and on the internet we all want that and and on the internet you can get it at a very low cost you can get it at a very low cost you can get it at a very low cost i think all of us want to feel loved and i think all of us want to feel loved and i think all of us want to feel loved and affirmed but a lot of us are really affirmed but a lot of us are really affirmed but a lot of us are really afraid of being deeply and truly known afraid of being deeply and truly known afraid of being deeply and truly known tim keller talks about this a little bit tim keller talks about this a little bit tim keller talks about this a little bit in the meaning of marriage his book on in the meaning of marriage his book on in the meaning of marriage his book on marriage that a lot of couples these marriage that a lot of couples these marriage that a lot of couples these days read for for premarital counseling days read for for premarital counseling days read for for premarital counseling um he talks about this in regard to um he talks about this in regard to um he talks about this in regard to marriage but i think it applies to our marriage but i think it applies to our marriage but i think it applies to our relationship with social media as well relationship with social media as well relationship with social media as well the social internet and our relationship the social internet and our relationship the social internet and our relationship with social media with social media with social media provides provides provides us with the ability us with the ability us with the ability to feel feelings of love and affirmation to feel feelings of love and affirmation to feel feelings of love and affirmation because of the way people give us because of the way people give us because of the way people give us attention attention attention and it allows us to protect ourselves and it allows us to protect ourselves and it allows us to protect ourselves from feeling vulnerable and and the from feeling vulnerable and and the from feeling vulnerable and and the vulnerability that comes with intimacy vulnerability that comes with intimacy vulnerability that comes with intimacy we want to feel love but a lot of us are we want to feel love but a lot of us are we want to feel love but a lot of us are really afraid of being truly known and really afraid of being truly known and really afraid of being truly known and when you're in offline community say in when you're in offline community say in when you're in offline community say in a church small group or even just going a church small group or even just going a church small group or even just going to sunday church services to sunday church services to sunday church services the level of inter the opportunity for the level of inter the opportunity for the level of inter the opportunity for intimacy and being truly known is much intimacy and being truly known is much intimacy and being truly known is much more prevalent and you're more likely to more prevalent and you're more likely to more prevalent and you're more likely to get into a deeper relationship with the get into a deeper relationship with the get into a deeper relationship with the people in your offline embodied people in your offline embodied people in your offline embodied community than you are with people who community than you are with people who community than you are with people who follow you on twitter or you're follow you on twitter or you're follow you on twitter or you're connected with on linkedin connected with on linkedin connected with on linkedin and so and so and so i think what social media does for us is i think what social media does for us is i think what social media does for us is it gives us this sort of feeling of it gives us this sort of feeling of it gives us this sort of feeling of being loved without the fear of being

being loved without the fear of being being loved without the fear of being known and i think that over time it gets known and i think that over time it gets known and i think that over time it gets to what you said jason it gets to to what you said jason it gets to to what you said jason it gets to a serious place of unhealth where we're a serious place of unhealth where we're a serious place of unhealth where we're constantly chasing this feeling of constantly chasing this feeling of constantly chasing this feeling of affirmation and we're never willing to affirmation and we're never willing to affirmation and we're never willing to open ourselves up to people because open ourselves up to people because open ourselves up to people because we're afraid of the vulnerability that we're afraid of the vulnerability that we're afraid of the vulnerability that comes with that and we didn't know we comes with that and we didn't know we comes with that and we didn't know we got there got there got there yep yep yep yeah yeah yeah it's creep right it just kind of you it's creep right it just kind of you it's creep right it just kind of you creep into it nobody nobody creep into it nobody nobody creep into it nobody nobody plans their way into destructive plans their way into destructive plans their way into destructive behavior right you you creep into it and behavior right you you creep into it and behavior right you you creep into it and uh a lot of times it in especially in uh a lot of times it in especially in uh a lot of times it in especially in the case of i think cultural things that the case of i think cultural things that the case of i think cultural things that have become cultural norms like the use have become cultural norms like the use have become cultural norms like the use of social media and the way that it's of social media and the way that it's of social media and the way that it's used is that we just kind of get used is that we just kind of get used is that we just kind of get swept up in swept up in swept up in the flow of culture in that push in that the flow of culture in that push in that the flow of culture in that push in that tide and the next thing we know we're tide and the next thing we know we're tide and the next thing we know we're neck deep in it or maybe over our heads neck deep in it or maybe over our heads neck deep in it or maybe over our heads in it and it's really difficult to get in it and it's really difficult to get in it and it's really difficult to get out of out of out of chris this has been a phenomenal chris this has been a phenomenal chris this has been a phenomenal conversation conversation conversation i'm really i'm really i'm really just i told you before we started just i told you before we started just i told you before we started recording that i think the book is not recording that i think the book is not recording that i think the book is not just content rich but it's very well just content rich but it's very well just content rich but it's very well written and i just appreciate written and i just appreciate written and i just appreciate you you you offering to hang out with jason and me offering to hang out with jason and me offering to hang out with jason and me again uh you said hey i'll come back on again uh you said hey i'll come back on again uh you said hey i'll come back on the show again and i said we'll have you the show again and i said we'll have you the show again and i said we'll have you on the show again and you say well i'm on the show again and you say well i'm on the show again and you say well i'm writing a book you want to do that writing a book you want to do that writing a book you want to do that absolutely we really appreciate you uh absolutely we really appreciate you uh absolutely we really appreciate you uh giving of your time uh we hope that giving of your time uh we hope that giving of your time uh we hope that those who are our friends and our those who are our friends and our those who are our friends and our listeners and our audience listeners and our audience listeners and our audience will uh will we hope they'll buy the will uh will we hope they'll buy the will uh will we hope they'll buy the book uh we hope that it will become a

book uh we hope that it will become a book uh we hope that it will become a resource a tool uh that churches that resource a tool uh that churches that resource a tool uh that churches that followers of jesus will use as much as followers of jesus will use as much as followers of jesus will use as much as anything to just have a greater anything to just have a greater anything to just have a greater awareness awareness awareness of how social media is impacting their of how social media is impacting their of how social media is impacting their lives whether they're actively using it lives whether they're actively using it lives whether they're actively using it or they're just watching the world or they're just watching the world or they're just watching the world around them use it um can you tell our around them use it um can you tell our around them use it um can you tell our friends where they can get the book friends where they can get the book friends where they can get the book sure uh you can get it i think generally sure uh you can get it i think generally sure uh you can get it i think generally wherever you like to buy books um you wherever you like to buy books um you wherever you like to buy books um you can get it on amazon obviously there's a can get it on amazon obviously there's a can get it on amazon obviously there's a kindle edition there's an audible kindle edition there's an audible kindle edition there's an audible edition that i think jason can attest is edition that i think jason can attest is edition that i think jason can attest is quite well done i i am not the reader of quite well done i i am not the reader of quite well done i i am not the reader of it so i'm not pumping myself up here but it so i'm not pumping myself up here but it so i'm not pumping myself up here but i i listened to example and i thought i i listened to example and i thought i i listened to example and i thought the reader was pretty good excellent so the reader was pretty good excellent so the reader was pretty good excellent so there's there's an audible edition if there's there's an audible edition if there's there's an audible edition if that's how you like to do books i used that's how you like to do books i used that's how you like to do books i used to i a small aside i used to love to do to i a small aside i used to love to do to i a small aside i used to love to do audible books when i was commuting every audible books when i was commuting every audible books when i was commuting every day but i have like now i have like 10 day but i have like now i have like 10 day but i have like now i have like 10 on my virtual audible shelf that i on my virtual audible shelf that i on my virtual audible shelf that i haven't really been able to read because haven't really been able to read because haven't really been able to read because i'm never commuting or anything um so uh i'm never commuting or anything um so uh i'm never commuting or anything um so uh so anyway audible kindle amazon and then so anyway audible kindle amazon and then so anyway audible kindle amazon and then barnes and noble if you're old school barnes and noble if you're old school barnes and noble if you're old school like that or uh it's on lifeway.com like that or uh it's on lifeway.com like that or uh it's on lifeway.com because b h of lifeway publish it because b h of lifeway publish it because b h of lifeway publish it christianbook.com so honestly if i were christianbook.com so honestly if i were christianbook.com so honestly if i were you go wherever you can get the best you go wherever you can get the best you go wherever you can get the best price because it doesn't really matter price because it doesn't really matter price because it doesn't really matter i actually think that i uh i think that i actually think that i uh i think that i actually think that i uh i think that on the b h page they link to all the on the b h page they link to all the on the b h page they link to all the different places that you can that you different places that you can that you different places that you can that you can purchase it so we will link the b h can purchase it so we will link the b h can purchase it so we will link the b h link in our show notes um and on our link in our show notes um and on our link in our show notes um and on our youtube channel so that people want to youtube channel so that people want to youtube channel so that people want to check that out they can um check that out they can um check that out they can um chris martin once again we're really chris martin once again we're really chris martin once again we're really grateful for you uh joining us on the grateful for you uh joining us on the grateful for you uh joining us on the show today and uh we just wish you all

show today and uh we just wish you all show today and uh we just wish you all the best with this book hope that it is the best with this book hope that it is the best with this book hope that it is the first of many to come the first of many to come the first of many to come thank you so much guys i love joining thank you so much guys i love joining thank you so much guys i love joining you it's really fun and i know we you it's really fun and i know we you it's really fun and i know we usually talk strategy so it's fun to usually talk strategy so it's fun to usually talk strategy so it's fun to talk a little something different this talk a little something different this talk a little something different this time and hopefully i'll get to be the time and hopefully i'll get to be the time and hopefully i'll get to be the first person ever to be on first person ever to be on first person ever to be on four times sometime in the future that'd four times sometime in the future that'd four times sometime in the future that'd be fun