Innovative Approaches to Digital Ministry | Alan George

[Music] [Music] and I think what's important for and I think what's important for and I think what's important for churches to remember is postco the whole churches to remember is postco the whole churches to remember is postco the whole world as they deal with other Industries world as they deal with other Industries world as they deal with other Industries they've all pivoted and they've all they've all pivoted and they've all they've all pivoted and they've all moved we need to as well we can't keep moved we need to as well we can't keep moved we need to as well we can't keep thinking about a building based strategy thinking about a building based strategy thinking about a building based strategy we need to start thinking about a People we need to start thinking about a People we need to start thinking about a People based based based strategy welcome to episode number 163 strategy welcome to episode number 163 strategy welcome to episode number 163 of the missional marketing podcast my of the missional marketing podcast my of the missional marketing podcast my name is Bart Blair thanks so much for name is Bart Blair thanks so much for name is Bart Blair thanks so much for tuning in into the show if you happen to tuning in into the show if you happen to tuning in into the show if you happen to be new to our podcast we want to be new to our podcast we want to be new to our podcast we want to encourage you to subscribe wherever you encourage you to subscribe wherever you encourage you to subscribe wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts so that listen to your favorite podcasts so that listen to your favorite podcasts so that you don't miss any future episodes and you don't miss any future episodes and you don't miss any future episodes and if you happen to be watching on our if you happen to be watching on our if you happen to be watching on our YouTube channel make sure that you YouTube channel make sure that you YouTube channel make sure that you scroll down and leave a comment we would scroll down and leave a comment we would scroll down and leave a comment we would love to engage with you there you can love to engage with you there you can love to engage with you there you can let us know uh what questions you might let us know uh what questions you might let us know uh what questions you might have or what things that you're learning have or what things that you're learning have or what things that you're learning from the podcast as you listen or watch from the podcast as you listen or watch from the podcast as you listen or watch online uh also if you happen to be new online uh also if you happen to be new online uh also if you happen to be new I've noted this before I'll note it I've noted this before I'll note it I've noted this before I'll note it again it's the 163rd episode we've been again it's the 163rd episode we've been again it's the 163rd episode we've been producing this podcast uh for over four producing this podcast uh for over four producing this podcast uh for over four years now and our goal is to help years now and our goal is to help years now and our goal is to help churches grow by leveraging digital churches grow by leveraging digital churches grow by leveraging digital marketing and effective Communications marketing and effective Communications marketing and effective Communications we've got ton tons and tons of great we've got ton tons and tons of great we've got ton tons and tons of great content interviews and one-off content interviews and one-off content interviews and one-off conversations about different topics uh conversations about different topics uh conversations about different topics uh and would love for you to just scroll and would love for you to just scroll and would love for you to just scroll back through the archive and look for back through the archive and look for back through the archive and look for some things that might be helpful or some things that might be helpful or some things that might be helpful or beneficial for you uh we hope that the beneficial for you uh we hope that the beneficial for you uh we hope that the content that you're uh listening to or content that you're uh listening to or content that you're uh listening to or you're watching uh is blessing you if you're watching uh is blessing you if you're watching uh is blessing you if you have a part in your Church's you have a part in your Church's you have a part in your Church's marketing and Communications uh that's marketing and Communications uh that's marketing and Communications uh that's our goal we we just want to provide some our goal we we just want to provide some our goal we we just want to provide some resources for you here on this podcast resources for you here on this podcast resources for you here on this podcast that'll help you do your role better uh

that'll help you do your role better uh that'll help you do your role better uh so that you can make a greater Kingdom so that you can make a greater Kingdom so that you can make a greater Kingdom impact in your local church well today's impact in your local church well today's impact in your local church well today's guest uh is a repeat guest on our guest uh is a repeat guest on our guest uh is a repeat guest on our podcast we've had a few of those lately podcast we've had a few of those lately podcast we've had a few of those lately this is Alan George Allan used to serve this is Alan George Allan used to serve this is Alan George Allan used to serve on staff at Life Church in Oklahoma uh on staff at Life Church in Oklahoma uh on staff at Life Church in Oklahoma uh he and his wife are still a part of the he and his wife are still a part of the he and his wife are still a part of the church there but he transitioned off to church there but he transitioned off to church there but he transitioned off to do more uh coaching and Consulting um he do more uh coaching and Consulting um he do more uh coaching and Consulting um he is by uh everyone's estimation uh one of is by uh everyone's estimation uh one of is by uh everyone's estimation uh one of the Premier experts in Church online we the Premier experts in Church online we the Premier experts in Church online we actually had Allan on the show uh back actually had Allan on the show uh back actually had Allan on the show uh back in 2020 he was one of our early guests in 2020 he was one of our early guests in 2020 he was one of our early guests as the world was coming out of the as the world was coming out of the as the world was coming out of the pandemic and Church online was a really pandemic and Church online was a really pandemic and Church online was a really big deal um now fast forward four years big deal um now fast forward four years big deal um now fast forward four years and some churches are still pressing and some churches are still pressing and some churches are still pressing into their Church online experience into their Church online experience into their Church online experience where others have maybe taken their foot where others have maybe taken their foot where others have maybe taken their foot off the gas a little bit but Allan has off the gas a little bit but Allan has off the gas a little bit but Allan has some additional resources and some some additional resources and some some additional resources and some training that he's providing for training that he's providing for training that he's providing for churches now to help them really churches now to help them really churches now to help them really leverage Church online and that's what leverage Church online and that's what leverage Church online and that's what we're going to discuss in today's we're going to discuss in today's we're going to discuss in today's conversation you'll also note that uh my conversation you'll also note that uh my conversation you'll also note that uh my regular podcast co-host Jason Hamrock regular podcast co-host Jason Hamrock regular podcast co-host Jason Hamrock who is the CEO of missional marketing is who is the CEO of missional marketing is who is the CEO of missional marketing is not on this episode I brought back my not on this episode I brought back my not on this episode I brought back my good friend and colleague Zack burnau uh good friend and colleague Zack burnau uh good friend and colleague Zack burnau uh to co-host the episode with me uh so to co-host the episode with me uh so to co-host the episode with me uh so that it's not just me uh Zach adds a that it's not just me uh Zach adds a that it's not just me uh Zach adds a different angle and a different flavor different angle and a different flavor different angle and a different flavor of questions and commentary hope that of questions and commentary hope that of questions and commentary hope that you're enjoying it I've enjoyed having you're enjoying it I've enjoyed having you're enjoying it I've enjoyed having Zach as a partner with me on the podcast Zach as a partner with me on the podcast Zach as a partner with me on the podcast lately and uh well I guess that's it lately and uh well I guess that's it lately and uh well I guess that's it that's the update the intro and all I'm that's the update the intro and all I'm that's the update the intro and all I'm going to say to uh lead into this going to say to uh lead into this going to say to uh lead into this particular podcast episode so here's particular podcast episode so here's particular podcast episode so here's Zack burnau and our interview uh with

Zack burnau and our interview uh with Zack burnau and our interview uh with Alan Alan Alan George Well Alan George thank you so George Well Alan George thank you so George Well Alan George thank you so much for coming back to be a guest on much for coming back to be a guest on much for coming back to be a guest on the missional marketing podcast thank the missional marketing podcast thank the missional marketing podcast thank you so much B I'm excited to be here uh you so much B I'm excited to be here uh you so much B I'm excited to be here uh we're we're glad to kind of have a a we're we're glad to kind of have a a we're we're glad to kind of have a a reconnection it's been a couple of years reconnection it's been a couple of years reconnection it's been a couple of years uh since we last spoke since the last uh since we last spoke since the last uh since we last spoke since the last time you were on the missional marketing time you were on the missional marketing time you were on the missional marketing podcast at the the the the last time we podcast at the the the the last time we podcast at the the the the last time we met the world was just coming out of the met the world was just coming out of the met the world was just coming out of the uh covid-19 pandemic Church restrictions uh covid-19 pandemic Church restrictions uh covid-19 pandemic Church restrictions were being lifted we had a really were being lifted we had a really were being lifted we had a really in-depth conversation about uh the in-depth conversation about uh the in-depth conversation about uh the church online space and I'm excited church online space and I'm excited church online space and I'm excited about our conversation today because I about our conversation today because I about our conversation today because I think uh as we were talking before we think uh as we were talking before we think uh as we were talking before we started recording that uh a lot of dust started recording that uh a lot of dust started recording that uh a lot of dust has settled for a lot of churches as it has settled for a lot of churches as it has settled for a lot of churches as it relates to their online Ministry their relates to their online Ministry their relates to their online Ministry their online presence and so what we want to online presence and so what we want to online presence and so what we want to do is lean in with you today about some do is lean in with you today about some do is lean in with you today about some best practices that you're seeing with best practices that you're seeing with best practices that you're seeing with churches and really just help them kind churches and really just help them kind churches and really just help them kind of make sure that they're uh still of make sure that they're uh still of make sure that they're uh still putting the right foot forward when it putting the right foot forward when it putting the right foot forward when it comes to online church and online comes to online church and online comes to online church and online Ministry but before we get into the Ministry but before we get into the Ministry but before we get into the details of all of those things um why details of all of those things um why details of all of those things um why don't you share with our audience a don't you share with our audience a don't you share with our audience a little bit about your background uh your little bit about your background uh your little bit about your background uh your ministry history and how you ended up ministry history and how you ended up ministry history and how you ended up doing what you're doing today yeah thank doing what you're doing today yeah thank doing what you're doing today yeah thank you I'm honored that I get to come back you I'm honored that I get to come back you I'm honored that I get to come back uh and and be with you all and your uh and and be with you all and your uh and and be with you all and your audience um so I am originally from audience um so I am originally from audience um so I am originally from India born and raised in the Middle East India born and raised in the Middle East India born and raised in the Middle East spent most of my life there I moved here spent most of my life there I moved here spent most of my life there I moved here here to the US in here to the US in here to the US in 2004 um I don't know if it's a common 2004 um I don't know if it's a common 2004 um I don't know if it's a common story or not but I met a girl fell in story or not but I met a girl fell in story or not but I met a girl fell in love with her wanted to marry her so love with her wanted to marry her so love with her wanted to marry her so moved here um I started off in corporate

moved here um I started off in corporate moved here um I started off in corporate I'm a pastor's kid so involved in church I'm a pastor's kid so involved in church I'm a pastor's kid so involved in church for pretty much a lot of my life and for pretty much a lot of my life and for pretty much a lot of my life and when I moved here I remember in 2008 when I moved here I remember in 2008 when I moved here I remember in 2008 towards the end of the year our family towards the end of the year our family towards the end of the year our family we were praying for the next year we were praying for the next year we were praying for the next year praying for just God what what do you praying for just God what what do you praying for just God what what do you have in store for us and I remember have in store for us and I remember have in store for us and I remember clearly hearing God said you trust me clearly hearing God said you trust me clearly hearing God said you trust me enough to quit your job and come work enough to quit your job and come work enough to quit your job and come work for me mind you I moved to the US and for me mind you I moved to the US and for me mind you I moved to the US and you know this is like four years after you know this is like four years after you know this is like four years after moving in we're living the American moving in we're living the American moving in we're living the American dream had our first kid we're getting dream had our first kid we're getting dream had our first kid we're getting ready to buy a house and I was like I ready to buy a house and I was like I ready to buy a house and I was like I don't want to quit my job right now I I don't want to quit my job right now I I don't want to quit my job right now I I need I need some money and and secretly need I need some money and and secretly need I need some money and and secretly I think God heard it I was like God you I think God heard it I was like God you I think God heard it I was like God you don't pay that well so I don't know if I don't pay that well so I don't know if I don't pay that well so I don't know if I want to do this right now and long story want to do this right now and long story want to do this right now and long story short I didn't I didn't mention that to short I didn't I didn't mention that to short I didn't I didn't mention that to my wife and on her own she heard the my wife and on her own she heard the my wife and on her own she heard the Lord say the same thing Lord say the same thing Lord say the same thing and so we made the decision for me to and so we made the decision for me to and so we made the decision for me to quit step out into full-time Ministry um quit step out into full-time Ministry um quit step out into full-time Ministry um I was on my own for two years and around I was on my own for two years and around I was on my own for two years and around 2010 is when I joined the team at Life 2010 is when I joined the team at Life 2010 is when I joined the team at Life Church and about six months later my Church and about six months later my Church and about six months later my wife joined the team as well so both of wife joined the team as well so both of wife joined the team as well so both of us got to live out the dream we've us got to live out the dream we've us got to live out the dream we've always had to do ministry together um I always had to do ministry together um I always had to do ministry together um I started off at one of our campuses at started off at one of our campuses at started off at one of our campuses at Life Church and about six months into Life Church and about six months into Life Church and about six months into that role I got offered the position of that role I got offered the position of that role I got offered the position of Church online Pastor that was not my Church online Pastor that was not my Church online Pastor that was not my plan I I'm not a I enjoy digital stuff I plan I I'm not a I enjoy digital stuff I plan I I'm not a I enjoy digital stuff I enjoy the tech world but I'm not a a enjoy the tech world but I'm not a a enjoy the tech world but I'm not a a digital native if if that's the term we digital native if if that's the term we digital native if if that's the term we want to use and so when this opportunity

want to use and so when this opportunity want to use and so when this opportunity came about I thought man I like I don't came about I thought man I like I don't came about I thought man I like I don't I don't live online like I am a I don't live online like I am a I don't live online like I am a face-to-face person I loved being in a face-to-face person I loved being in a face-to-face person I loved being in a physical location I loved getting to physical location I loved getting to physical location I loved getting to shake hands and hug people and just shake hands and hug people and just shake hands and hug people and just that's where I wanted to be and so this that's where I wanted to be and so this that's where I wanted to be and so this kind of pivot really caught me off guard kind of pivot really caught me off guard kind of pivot really caught me off guard but when we spent time in prayer I've but when we spent time in prayer I've but when we spent time in prayer I've always had a heart for the world had always had a heart for the world had always had a heart for the world had heart for Global audiences and I felt heart for Global audiences and I felt heart for Global audiences and I felt the Lord say hey here's an opportunity the Lord say hey here's an opportunity the Lord say hey here's an opportunity where at the click of a button you can where at the click of a button you can where at the click of a button you can reach the world and that kind of really reach the world and that kind of really reach the world and that kind of really opened my eyes and I thought that's what opened my eyes and I thought that's what opened my eyes and I thought that's what I want to be a part of and so it was I want to be a part of and so it was I want to be a part of and so it was uncomfortable for sure because that was uncomfortable for sure because that was uncomfortable for sure because that was not my normal audience but um I think not my normal audience but um I think not my normal audience but um I think looking back I could see God's hand in looking back I could see God's hand in looking back I could see God's hand in it so I served in that role for almost it so I served in that role for almost it so I served in that role for almost 10 years all through covid all through 10 years all through covid all through 10 years all through covid all through the pandemic and then towards the end of the pandemic and then towards the end of the pandemic and then towards the end of 2020 again no plans were changing but I 2020 again no plans were changing but I 2020 again no plans were changing but I heard God say again hey your time here heard God say again hey your time here heard God say again hey your time here is done and I was like get thee behind is done and I was like get thee behind is done and I was like get thee behind me Satan because this was home for me um me Satan because this was home for me um me Satan because this was home for me um I didn't want to leave live church I I didn't want to leave live church I I didn't want to leave live church I loved it as my church and I just felt loved it as my church and I just felt loved it as my church and I just felt like God was saying no I want you to like God was saying no I want you to like God was saying no I want you to help other churches figure out how to do help other churches figure out how to do help other churches figure out how to do what you were doing so stepped off the what you were doing so stepped off the what you were doing so stepped off the team um end of 2020 and started team um end of 2020 and started team um end of 2020 and started partnering with churches and pastors to partnering with churches and pastors to partnering with churches and pastors to help them figure out what this digital help them figure out what this digital help them figure out what this digital Ministry look like in their in their Ministry look like in their in their Ministry look like in their in their context Alan thanks for that background context Alan thanks for that background context Alan thanks for that background there uh we're going to link in the show there uh we're going to link in the show there uh we're going to link in the show notes uh to the previous episode that notes uh to the previous episode that notes uh to the previous episode that you were on and and we got into a lot you were on and and we got into a lot you were on and and we got into a lot more of the detail about how your role

more of the detail about how your role more of the detail about how your role at Life Church kind of became a Church at Life Church kind of became a Church at Life Church kind of became a Church online pastor and how that Ministry sort online pastor and how that Ministry sort online pastor and how that Ministry sort of got started and how that was built so of got started and how that was built so of got started and how that was built so for those of you that are watching or for those of you that are watching or for those of you that are watching or listening if you want to know a little listening if you want to know a little listening if you want to know a little bit more of the story about how that all bit more of the story about how that all bit more of the story about how that all came to be uh check out that previous came to be uh check out that previous came to be uh check out that previous episode um as I mentioned earlier the episode um as I mentioned earlier the episode um as I mentioned earlier the last time we had you on the show at you last time we had you on the show at you last time we had you on the show at you were really kind of fresh into uh the were really kind of fresh into uh the were really kind of fresh into uh the season of doing coaching and Consulting season of doing coaching and Consulting season of doing coaching and Consulting for churches we're a couple of years for churches we're a couple of years for churches we're a couple of years down the road past the pandemic where down the road past the pandemic where down the road past the pandemic where you know a lot of churches that didn't you know a lot of churches that didn't you know a lot of churches that didn't have an online presence or a substantial have an online presence or a substantial have an online presence or a substantial online presence sort of really had no online presence sort of really had no online presence sort of really had no choice but to give themselves one and um choice but to give themselves one and um choice but to give themselves one and um now here we are a couple years later and now here we are a couple years later and now here we are a couple years later and or four years later I guess and people or four years later I guess and people or four years later I guess and people are starting to ask the question what is are starting to ask the question what is are starting to ask the question what is the value of this what do we need to do the value of this what do we need to do the value of this what do we need to do with this how do we do we do we Leverage with this how do we do we do we Leverage with this how do we do we do we Leverage this or or not and so why don't you um this or or not and so why don't you um this or or not and so why don't you um share a little bit about some of the share a little bit about some of the share a little bit about some of the experiences that that you've had over experiences that that you've had over experiences that that you've had over the last couple of years as churches the last couple of years as churches the last couple of years as churches have moved away from the full necessity have moved away from the full necessity have moved away from the full necessity of having an online presence to now of having an online presence to now of having an online presence to now seeing it as a space for opportunity for seeing it as a space for opportunity for seeing it as a space for opportunity for missional opportunity and missional missional opportunity and missional missional opportunity and missional engagement yeah you know I part of this engagement yeah you know I part of this engagement yeah you know I part of this I sensed while we were going through I sensed while we were going through I sensed while we were going through covid so hate to bring everyone back to covid so hate to bring everyone back to covid so hate to bring everyone back to that time but when you look back at that that time but when you look back at that that time but when you look back at that time when when all of our locations were time when when all of our locations were time when when all of our locations were shut down in fact it was not just shut down in fact it was not just shut down in fact it was not just churches but it was businesses there was churches but it was businesses there was churches but it was businesses there was a lot going on you you see other a lot going on you you see other a lot going on you you see other Industries beginning to Pivot and Industries beginning to Pivot and Industries beginning to Pivot and because as their physical location was

because as their physical location was because as their physical location was shutting down the ones who were thinking shutting down the ones who were thinking shutting down the ones who were thinking about not necessarily A location-based about not necessarily A location-based about not necessarily A location-based strategy but a people-based strategy you strategy but a people-based strategy you strategy but a people-based strategy you see them thriving because what they did see them thriving because what they did see them thriving because what they did was they didn't build everything around was they didn't build everything around was they didn't build everything around their their location they built their their location they built their their location they built everything around the people that they everything around the people that they everything around the people that they wanted to serve so they changed the way wanted to serve so they changed the way wanted to serve so they changed the way they were meeting the people that they they were meeting the people that they they were meeting the people that they were trying to meet I I think um were trying to meet I I think um were trying to meet I I think um interestingly enough my my sister is interestingly enough my my sister is interestingly enough my my sister is actually teaching at a university and actually teaching at a university and actually teaching at a university and both of us during that time our both of us during that time our both of us during that time our conversations were very similar because conversations were very similar because conversations were very similar because I noticed it was the church and this and I noticed it was the church and this and I noticed it was the church and this and the world of Education the two of them the world of Education the two of them the world of Education the two of them were the only ones at that time that I were the only ones at that time that I were the only ones at that time that I was hearing saying this phrase I can't was hearing saying this phrase I can't was hearing saying this phrase I can't wait to go back to how it was and you wait to go back to how it was and you wait to go back to how it was and you would hear that time and time again would hear that time and time again would hear that time and time again because both of our models education and because both of our models education and because both of our models education and the church was geared around this this the church was geared around this this the church was geared around this this building building based strategy come to building building based strategy come to building building based strategy come to me on a weekend and when you come into me on a weekend and when you come into me on a weekend and when you come into come into my building and walk through come into my building and walk through come into my building and walk through my doors then I'm going to meet you my doors then I'm going to meet you my doors then I'm going to meet you where you're at versus everybody else where you're at versus everybody else where you're at versus everybody else were going okay you can't come to my were going okay you can't come to my were going okay you can't come to my building I'm going to come to you and I building I'm going to come to you and I building I'm going to come to you and I think what's important for churches to think what's important for churches to think what's important for churches to remember is postco the whole world as remember is postco the whole world as remember is postco the whole world as they deal with other Industries they've they deal with other Industries they've they deal with other Industries they've all pivoted and they've all moved we all pivoted and they've all moved we all pivoted and they've all moved we need to as well we can't keep thinking need to as well we can't keep thinking need to as well we can't keep thinking about a building based strategy we need about a building based strategy we need about a building based strategy we need to start thinking about a people-based to start thinking about a people-based to start thinking about a people-based strategy um when oftentimes when we say strategy um when oftentimes when we say strategy um when oftentimes when we say from stage and I've I've said it many

from stage and I've I've said it many from stage and I've I've said it many times as well hey thank you for coming times as well hey thank you for coming times as well hey thank you for coming to church today you know we're glad to church today you know we're glad to church today you know we're glad you're here as your pastor we want you you're here as your pastor we want you you're here as your pastor we want you to know that we want to walk with you to know that we want to walk with you to know that we want to walk with you through life we want to do life with you through life we want to do life with you through life we want to do life with you all of us in some form or the other all of us in some form or the other all of us in some form or the other we've shared that I feel like we've got we've shared that I feel like we've got we've shared that I feel like we've got to now start meaning what we're saying to now start meaning what we're saying to now start meaning what we're saying and what I mean by that is we have the and what I mean by that is we have the and what I mean by that is we have the opportunity to meet people where they're opportunity to meet people where they're opportunity to meet people where they're at but it's not limited to a Saturday or at but it's not limited to a Saturday or at but it's not limited to a Saturday or Sunday service we can meet them Monday Sunday service we can meet them Monday Sunday service we can meet them Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday and so Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday and so Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday and so I think the way we need to start I think the way we need to start I think the way we need to start thinking about digital is this is not thinking about digital is this is not thinking about digital is this is not just about take a service and put it just about take a service and put it just about take a service and put it online it is about meeting people where online it is about meeting people where online it is about meeting people where they're at so from a perspective like if they're at so from a perspective like if they're at so from a perspective like if if you're in Communications if you're in if you're in Communications if you're in if you're in Communications if you're in marketing if you're an online Pastor if marketing if you're an online Pastor if marketing if you're an online Pastor if you're a senior pastor executive pastor you're a senior pastor executive pastor you're a senior pastor executive pastor whatever your role is in fact I would whatever your role is in fact I would whatever your role is in fact I would even say youth teams NextGen all of us even say youth teams NextGen all of us even say youth teams NextGen all of us we need to be thinking different this is we need to be thinking different this is we need to be thinking different this is not a there's a Church online Pastor on not a there's a Church online Pastor on not a there's a Church online Pastor on my on our team and this is their world my on our team and this is their world my on our team and this is their world this needs to be our world because the this needs to be our world because the this needs to be our world because the parents if you're nextg the parents that parents if you're nextg the parents that parents if you're nextg the parents that we're connecting with small groups we're connecting with small groups we're connecting with small groups everybody they only come into our everybody they only come into our everybody they only come into our building once a week but the rest of the building once a week but the rest of the building once a week but the rest of the time they're online how do we build a time they're online how do we build a time they're online how do we build a holistic strategy to meet our people holistic strategy to meet our people holistic strategy to meet our people where they're at that that's how we need where they're at that that's how we need where they're at that that's how we need to start thinking about it yeah Allan to start thinking about it yeah Allan to start thinking about it yeah Allan that's like that's very good Insight that's like that's very good Insight that's like that's very good Insight with covid because I was on staff um with covid because I was on staff um with covid because I was on staff um during covid in the pandemic and that during covid in the pandemic and that during covid in the pandemic and that Although our team was very we got to get Although our team was very we got to get Although our team was very we got to get online um and that's where I found my

online um and that's where I found my online um and that's where I found my passion for digital marketing um I even passion for digital marketing um I even passion for digital marketing um I even felt my peers and even my church was we felt my peers and even my church was we felt my peers and even my church was we need to push them online but as you said need to push them online but as you said need to push them online but as you said the reason we should care about online the reason we should care about online the reason we should care about online Ministry is a lot based in like we want Ministry is a lot based in like we want Ministry is a lot based in like we want to reach people where they're at to reach people where they're at to reach people where they're at um and not to sound weird I always talk um and not to sound weird I always talk um and not to sound weird I always talk about it like what's the best way to about it like what's the best way to about it like what's the best way to reach someone when they're sitting on reach someone when they're sitting on reach someone when they're sitting on the toilet scrolling the phone like and the toilet scrolling the phone like and the toilet scrolling the phone like and we miss those very vulnerable spaces a we miss those very vulnerable spaces a we miss those very vulnerable spaces a lot um but it's important so what do you lot um but it's important so what do you lot um but it's important so what do you think are some um mistakes or think are some um mistakes or think are some um mistakes or assumptions that us as pastors or assumptions that us as pastors or assumptions that us as pastors or churches make about online churches make about online churches make about online Ministry I I think like I mentioned Ministry I I think like I mentioned Ministry I I think like I mentioned we've got to go beyond the let's take a we've got to go beyond the let's take a we've got to go beyond the let's take a service and put it online a a lot of service and put it online a a lot of service and put it online a a lot of times when you say Church online or times when you say Church online or times when you say Church online or digital Ministry it's kind of boiled digital Ministry it's kind of boiled digital Ministry it's kind of boiled down to that I'm I'm I'm going to take down to that I'm I'm I'm going to take down to that I'm I'm I'm going to take what's working in my building and I'm what's working in my building and I'm what's working in my building and I'm going to throw it online and I'm going going to throw it online and I'm going going to throw it online and I'm going to put two hosts on there because I to put two hosts on there because I to put two hosts on there because I think it's fun and I'm just gonna think it's fun and I'm just gonna think it's fun and I'm just gonna hopefully it hopefully it hopefully it works this is not that in fact I would works this is not that in fact I would works this is not that in fact I would even say digital Ministry doesn't mean even say digital Ministry doesn't mean even say digital Ministry doesn't mean you have to have an online service you you have to have an online service you you have to have an online service you could have a strategy without an online could have a strategy without an online could have a strategy without an online service that's why we've got to rethink service that's why we've got to rethink service that's why we've got to rethink this thing it's not about putting the this thing it's not about putting the this thing it's not about putting the same because let me back up just a bit same because let me back up just a bit same because let me back up just a bit the online service on the service and the online service on the service and the online service on the service and taking that and putting it online that taking that and putting it online that taking that and putting it online that came out of a building mindset I'm going came out of a building mindset I'm going came out of a building mindset I'm going to I'm G I have a building I need to put to I'm G I have a building I need to put to I'm G I have a building I need to put an event you know together in that an event you know together in that an event you know together in that building and now with online we're just

building and now with online we're just building and now with online we're just taking what works in a building and taking what works in a building and taking what works in a building and throwing it online and then we talk throwing it online and then we talk throwing it online and then we talk about man I'm not I'm not seeing enough about man I'm not I'm not seeing enough about man I'm not I'm not seeing enough engagement I'm not seeing enough of this engagement I'm not seeing enough of this engagement I'm not seeing enough of this well we're not seeing it because we're well we're not seeing it because we're well we're not seeing it because we're not meeting people where we are we're not meeting people where we are we're not meeting people where we are we're expecting them to come to us instead of expecting them to come to us instead of expecting them to come to us instead of us going to them so I think we've got to us going to them so I think we've got to us going to them so I think we've got to kind of not get rid of what we've been kind of not get rid of what we've been kind of not get rid of what we've been doing but take a moment with your doing but take a moment with your doing but take a moment with your executive team with your leadership team executive team with your leadership team executive team with your leadership team to go okay let's revisit who are we as a to go okay let's revisit who are we as a to go okay let's revisit who are we as a church what's our mission a lot of church what's our mission a lot of church what's our mission a lot of mission statements will say man I want mission statements will say man I want mission statements will say man I want to reach people all over the world but to reach people all over the world but to reach people all over the world but when it comes to what they're doing when it comes to what they're doing when it comes to what they're doing they're only reaching people in their they're only reaching people in their they're only reaching people in their Community which one are you are you Community which one are you are you Community which one are you are you reaching people all over the world or reaching people all over the world or reaching people all over the world or are you reaching people in your are you reaching people in your are you reaching people in your community I think even finding Clarity community I think even finding Clarity community I think even finding Clarity to that level is key so starting with to that level is key so starting with to that level is key so starting with your mission who are you as a church your mission who are you as a church your mission who are you as a church what are you trying to do second if all what are you trying to do second if all what are you trying to do second if all you're thinking about is that online you're thinking about is that online you're thinking about is that online service then I think we're missing a service then I think we're missing a service then I think we're missing a huge opportunity I think third is huge opportunity I think third is huge opportunity I think third is getting our our the rest of the teams getting our our the rest of the teams getting our our the rest of the teams involved I'll give you a quick example involved I'll give you a quick example involved I'll give you a quick example uh for years when I was leading our uh for years when I was leading our uh for years when I was leading our church online team we were thinking church online team we were thinking church online team we were thinking about ways to reach the next generation about ways to reach the next generation about ways to reach the next generation and unfortunately we never found a way and unfortunately we never found a way and unfortunately we never found a way that really succeeded or that really that really succeeded or that really that really succeeded or that really worked when covid happened because our worked when covid happened because our worked when covid happened because our buildings were shut down our next gen buildings were shut down our next gen buildings were shut down our next gen team they had time on their hands and so team they had time on their hands and so team they had time on their hands and so they said hey how can we figure out you they said hey how can we figure out you they said hey how can we figure out you know what to do with digital how can we know what to do with digital how can we know what to do with digital how can we help how can we partner and so what what help how can we partner and so what what help how can we partner and so what what happened was our team bought the happened was our team bought the happened was our team bought the expertise of doing Ministry online

expertise of doing Ministry online expertise of doing Ministry online NextGen brought the expertise of doing NextGen brought the expertise of doing NextGen brought the expertise of doing Ministry with NextGen and I'm and they Ministry with NextGen and I'm and they Ministry with NextGen and I'm and they led the initiative and it worked what led the initiative and it worked what led the initiative and it worked what didn't work for us for many years worked didn't work for us for many years worked didn't work for us for many years worked when the nextg team got involved so this when the nextg team got involved so this when the nextg team got involved so this is not about oh I have a Church online is not about oh I have a Church online is not about oh I have a Church online team let them figure it out it's about team let them figure it out it's about team let them figure it out it's about each team thinking of how they could each team thinking of how they could each team thinking of how they could leverage the tools and Technology that's leverage the tools and Technology that's leverage the tools and Technology that's available to them so at least start with available to them so at least start with available to them so at least start with these three and obviously there's more these three and obviously there's more these three and obviously there's more but I think starting with the basis of but I think starting with the basis of but I think starting with the basis of who are we as a church it's got to be who are we as a church it's got to be who are we as a church it's got to be more than an online service how can I more than an online service how can I more than an online service how can I involve all the other teams I think involve all the other teams I think involve all the other teams I think that's a great place for any church to that's a great place for any church to that's a great place for any church to start Ian I'm hear I I hear this often start Ian I'm hear I I hear this often start Ian I'm hear I I hear this often uh a level of frustration on the part of uh a level of frustration on the part of uh a level of frustration on the part of pastors who believe that online pastors who believe that online pastors who believe that online Ministry uh it depletes their weekend Ministry uh it depletes their weekend Ministry uh it depletes their weekend attendance right that if I if and of attendance right that if I if and of attendance right that if I if and of course we're going that that's that's course we're going that that's that's course we're going that that's that's when we're calling an online broadcast when we're calling an online broadcast when we're calling an online broadcast Church online right when all we're doing Church online right when all we're doing Church online right when all we're doing is broadcasting and I was having a is broadcasting and I was having a is broadcasting and I was having a conversation actually early this morning conversation actually early this morning conversation actually early this morning with a friend of mine who's not in with a friend of mine who's not in with a friend of mine who's not in Ministry but it's a guy I've known for Ministry but it's a guy I've known for Ministry but it's a guy I've known for for many many years and he asked me a for many many years and he asked me a for many many years and he asked me a question about Church online and we got question about Church online and we got question about Church online and we got into the conversation I said you know I into the conversation I said you know I into the conversation I said you know I think that reaction when pastors say and think that reaction when pastors say and think that reaction when pastors say and in fact I heard recently of a mega in fact I heard recently of a mega in fact I heard recently of a mega church that's talking about completely church that's talking about completely church that's talking about completely cutting their live stream they're not cutting their live stream they're not cutting their live stream they're not going to do it anymore why because they going to do it anymore why because they going to do it anymore why because they feel like what they're doing is they're feel like what they're doing is they're feel like what they're doing is they're creating a situation where people will creating a situation where people will creating a situation where people will just stay at home and watch church for just stay at home and watch church for just stay at home and watch church for an hour on Sunday and not ever show up an hour on Sunday and not ever show up an hour on Sunday and not ever show up in person and I said I don't think that in person and I said I don't think that in person and I said I don't think that that's the problem I think that that's a

that's the problem I think that that's a that's the problem I think that that's a symptom of the problem I think the real symptom of the problem I think the real symptom of the problem I think the real problem is that the church has created a problem is that the church has created a problem is that the church has created a consumeristic culture in the first place consumeristic culture in the first place consumeristic culture in the first place which communicates to people that the which communicates to people that the which communicates to people that the most important thing and really the only most important thing and really the only most important thing and really the only important thing is that hour on Sunday important thing is that hour on Sunday important thing is that hour on Sunday and therefore whether I do it in person and therefore whether I do it in person and therefore whether I do it in person or I do it online I've checked the box or I do it online I've checked the box or I do it online I've checked the box and that's all I really need to do and and that's all I really need to do and and that's all I really need to do and what I hear you saying Allan is that what I hear you saying Allan is that what I hear you saying Allan is that online Ministry actually is not at all online Ministry actually is not at all online Ministry actually is not at all the hour on Sunday it's everything the hour on Sunday it's everything the hour on Sunday it's everything that's happening in in the 167 other that's happening in in the 167 other that's happening in in the 167 other hours of the week therefore let's double hours of the week therefore let's double hours of the week therefore let's double click on that for a moment what does click on that for a moment what does click on that for a moment what does that look like in practicality when you that look like in practicality when you that look like in practicality when you start talking about you know we can talk start talking about you know we can talk start talking about you know we can talk about high level we we do these things about high level we we do these things about high level we we do these things our children's ministry our nextg our children's ministry our nextg our children's ministry our nextg ministry our discipleship Ministry they ministry our discipleship Ministry they ministry our discipleship Ministry they do these things online what does that do these things online what does that do these things online what does that actually look like what are some actually look like what are some actually look like what are some practical examples of some things that practical examples of some things that practical examples of some things that churches are doing that are actually churches are doing that are actually churches are doing that are actually effective in an online space sure um I effective in an online space sure um I effective in an online space sure um I love I love how you talked about that love I love how you talked about that love I love how you talked about that because I so in our experience this is I because I so in our experience this is I because I so in our experience this is I can only talk about our experience um we can only talk about our experience um we can only talk about our experience um we started doing Church online like service started doing Church online like service started doing Church online like service online in 2006 if you look at the growth online in 2006 if you look at the growth online in 2006 if you look at the growth of Life Church specifically our online of Life Church specifically our online of Life Church specifically our online community grew as well as our physical community grew as well as our physical community grew as well as our physical locations we've been adding physical locations we've been adding physical locations we've been adding physical locations and continue to do so since locations and continue to do so since locations and continue to do so since then so the argument of it's stealing then so the argument of it's stealing then so the argument of it's stealing from you know if you do online it's from you know if you do online it's from you know if you do online it's stealing our people that doesn't stand stealing our people that doesn't stand stealing our people that doesn't stand true at least my experience every time

true at least my experience every time true at least my experience every time I've been to a place where we didn't I've been to a place where we didn't I've been to a place where we didn't have a location just to visit our have a location just to visit our have a location just to visit our community number one question I get is community number one question I get is community number one question I get is hey are you guys starting a location hey are you guys starting a location hey are you guys starting a location here because the ones that are here because the ones that are here because the ones that are passionate about it will always be passionate about it will always be passionate about it will always be passionate about it the ones that are passionate about it the ones that are passionate about it the ones that are your couch potatoes we've got them in your couch potatoes we've got them in your couch potatoes we've got them in our physical buildings as well we're our physical buildings as well we're our physical buildings as well we're just fooling ourselves thinking that just fooling ourselves thinking that just fooling ourselves thinking that they're fully engaged when they're not they're fully engaged when they're not they're fully engaged when they're not that's a whole another conversation um I that's a whole another conversation um I that's a whole another conversation um I I think when you're talking about I think when you're talking about I think when you're talking about practical things now when I said you practical things now when I said you practical things now when I said you don't have to do a service doesn't mean don't have to do a service doesn't mean don't have to do a service doesn't mean you don't need to do it I think you you don't need to do it I think you you don't need to do it I think you still can if that's who you are as a still can if that's who you are as a still can if that's who you are as a church I think a lot of churches right church I think a lot of churches right church I think a lot of churches right now we're just doing what the next now we're just doing what the next now we're just doing what the next church is doing rather than think church is doing rather than think church is doing rather than think thinking about who are we as a church so thinking about who are we as a church so thinking about who are we as a church so I would say starting with that question I would say starting with that question I would say starting with that question of who are we who are we trying to reach of who are we who are we trying to reach of who are we who are we trying to reach if doing an online service fits in your if doing an online service fits in your if doing an online service fits in your strategy and in in your identity as a strategy and in in your identity as a strategy and in in your identity as a church then I would encourage you to do church then I would encourage you to do church then I would encourage you to do it but as you do it one quick practical it but as you do it one quick practical it but as you do it one quick practical thing about the online service and I thing about the online service and I thing about the online service and I mentioned this you know they put Two mentioned this you know they put Two mentioned this you know they put Two Hosts I get the question like should I Hosts I get the question like should I Hosts I get the question like should I have two people or one person should I have two people or one person should I have two people or one person should I film in my Lobby should I film outside I film in my Lobby should I film outside I film in my Lobby should I film outside I I think the answer is yes it depends um I think the answer is yes it depends um I think the answer is yes it depends um the way I'll I'll I'll explain kind of the way I'll I'll I'll explain kind of the way I'll I'll I'll explain kind of why we used to do how what we used to do why we used to do how what we used to do why we used to do how what we used to do back in the day um for for me my focus back in the day um for for me my focus back in the day um for for me my focus was a global audience and so when we was a global audience and so when we was a global audience and so when we were looking at a global audience the were looking at a global audience the were looking at a global audience the more I filmed in a building in one of more I filmed in a building in one of more I filmed in a building in one of our churches or on stage it created the our churches or on stage it created the our churches or on stage it created the sense that what's happening like all the

sense that what's happening like all the sense that what's happening like all the excitement is happening in this building excitement is happening in this building excitement is happening in this building but what I was trying to do globally was but what I was trying to do globally was but what I was trying to do globally was the church is not a building you are the the church is not a building you are the the church is not a building you are the church and so so I wanted the people church and so so I wanted the people church and so so I wanted the people attending my service to feel like even attending my service to feel like even attending my service to feel like even if they're at home or in a coffee shop if they're at home or in a coffee shop if they're at home or in a coffee shop or a group of people have rented a space or a group of people have rented a space or a group of people have rented a space and they're meeting together that's and they're meeting together that's and they're meeting together that's where the church is so I actually almost where the church is so I actually almost where the church is so I actually almost Never filmed in one of our physical Never filmed in one of our physical Never filmed in one of our physical locations um in fact when I thought of locations um in fact when I thought of locations um in fact when I thought of filming as a team we're like well if we filming as a team we're like well if we filming as a team we're like well if we do that people would feel like they're do that people would feel like they're do that people would feel like they're they're they're missing out so for me they're they're missing out so for me they're they're missing out so for me that was the strategy now as a church if that was the strategy now as a church if that was the strategy now as a church if you're thinking I want to drive you're thinking I want to drive you're thinking I want to drive attendance in my physical building then attendance in my physical building then attendance in my physical building then I would film everything in the building I would film everything in the building I would film everything in the building I would film outside I would film in the I would film outside I would film in the I would film outside I would film in the lobby I would film on stage so lobby I would film on stage so lobby I would film on stage so practically you've got to figure out practically you've got to figure out practically you've got to figure out what you want to do whether the question what you want to do whether the question what you want to do whether the question is two people or one both work what are is two people or one both work what are is two people or one both work what are you trying to create for me as a large you trying to create for me as a large you trying to create for me as a large church people already can feel church people already can feel church people already can feel disconnected and so what I wanted to do disconnected and so what I wanted to do disconnected and so what I wanted to do was feel I wanted them to feel like I was feel I wanted them to feel like I was feel I wanted them to feel like I was their Pastor if I wanted them to was their Pastor if I wanted them to was their Pastor if I wanted them to feel that way then I've got to make it feel that way then I've got to make it feel that way then I've got to make it feel like almost like I'm having coffee feel like almost like I'm having coffee feel like almost like I'm having coffee with them so I don't want to do it here with them so I don't want to do it here with them so I don't want to do it here because if I stand up the shot will mess because if I stand up the shot will mess because if I stand up the shot will mess up but if I were if I were on stage I up but if I were if I were on stage I up but if I were if I were on stage I would talk very differently hey guys how would talk very differently hey guys how would talk very differently hey guys how are you doing today I'm so glad that are you doing today I'm so glad that are you doing today I'm so glad that like it would feel distant but like it would feel distant but like it would feel distant but appropriate on stage but if we're appropriate on stage but if we're appropriate on stage but if we're talking face to face I would speak like talking face to face I would speak like talking face to face I would speak like this a lot of times our communicators this a lot of times our communicators this a lot of times our communicators for online will speak as though they're

for online will speak as though they're for online will speak as though they're speaking on stage and I believe that speaking on stage and I believe that speaking on stage and I believe that that's that's not really connecting well that's that's not really connecting well that's that's not really connecting well with your people unless that is the with your people unless that is the with your people unless that is the atmosphere I want to create so if I want atmosphere I want to create so if I want atmosphere I want to create so if I want and I've done two people when we want to and I've done two people when we want to and I've done two people when we want to do something fun or exciting usually do something fun or exciting usually do something fun or exciting usually have two co-hosts so I think a simple have two co-hosts so I think a simple have two co-hosts so I think a simple practical thing for your online service practical thing for your online service practical thing for your online service is identify what you're going after have is identify what you're going after have is identify what you're going after have a clear strategy based on that your a clear strategy based on that your a clear strategy based on that your location matters the number of people location matters the number of people location matters the number of people matters as well when it comes to other matters as well when it comes to other matters as well when it comes to other Ministries and ways to involve them I Ministries and ways to involve them I Ministries and ways to involve them I think small groups is a little bit more think small groups is a little bit more think small groups is a little bit more easier to wrap our minds around because easier to wrap our minds around because easier to wrap our minds around because um a lot of people you know you um a lot of people you know you um a lot of people you know you communicate online you send resources communicate online you send resources communicate online you send resources online but what we noticed was online but what we noticed was online but what we noticed was especially if people didn't attend a especially if people didn't attend a especially if people didn't attend a physical location to go from attending physical location to go from attending physical location to go from attending an online service and then jumping into an online service and then jumping into an online service and then jumping into a small group context that seemed like a a small group context that seemed like a a small group context that seemed like a huge stretch for people because they huge stretch for people because they huge stretch for people because they like the anonymity online but jumping like the anonymity online but jumping like the anonymity online but jumping from that into an intimate six seven from that into an intimate six seven from that into an intimate six seven eight people group and I'm supposed to eight people group and I'm supposed to eight people group and I'm supposed to share my heart we notice just a huge gap share my heart we notice just a huge gap share my heart we notice just a huge gap so a couple of churches have been doing so a couple of churches have been doing so a couple of churches have been doing this now for a while they've introduced this now for a while they've introduced this now for a while they've introduced this idea of cohorts or these really this idea of cohorts or these really this idea of cohorts or these really short kind of come join us for 21 days short kind of come join us for 21 days short kind of come join us for 21 days on how to be a better father a better on how to be a better father a better on how to be a better father a better husband or something like that and husband or something like that and husband or something like that and that's that's not as intimate as a small that's that's not as intimate as a small that's that's not as intimate as a small group but it's not as Anonymous as an group but it's not as Anonymous as an group but it's not as Anonymous as an online service where you don't have to online service where you don't have to online service where you don't have to tell people your name and so I think tell people your name and so I think tell people your name and so I think finding some some ways that people can finding some some ways that people can finding some some ways that people can take the next easiest step again goes

take the next easiest step again goes take the next easiest step again goes back to if I was thinking the way I'm back to if I was thinking the way I'm back to if I was thinking the way I'm thinking around my building I'm thinking thinking around my building I'm thinking thinking around my building I'm thinking come to my church attend on weekend next come to my church attend on weekend next come to my church attend on weekend next thing is small group or serving but for thing is small group or serving but for thing is small group or serving but for someone that's walking into a building someone that's walking into a building someone that's walking into a building they've said yes already like at least they've said yes already like at least they've said yes already like at least 1020 times before they've even walked 1020 times before they've even walked 1020 times before they've even walked into our building they said yes to into our building they said yes to into our building they said yes to waking up yes to getting the kids ready waking up yes to getting the kids ready waking up yes to getting the kids ready yes to driving yes to you know they've yes to driving yes to you know they've yes to driving yes to you know they've said yes so many times online they said yes so many times online they said yes so many times online they haven't said yes to anything they happen haven't said yes to anything they happen haven't said yes to anything they happen to find your link and they're there and to find your link and they're there and to find your link and they're there and asking them to jump from that step to a asking them to jump from that step to a asking them to jump from that step to a small group seems unrealistic so cohort small group seems unrealistic so cohort small group seems unrealistic so cohort is an easy Next Step a lot of churches is an easy Next Step a lot of churches is an easy Next Step a lot of churches do it um there's there's a company do it um there's there's a company do it um there's there's a company called Apollos where they have an app called Apollos where they have an app called Apollos where they have an app that's focused around daily discipleship that's focused around daily discipleship that's focused around daily discipleship and so that's a great resource as well and so that's a great resource as well and so that's a great resource as well um to do something like that so cohorts um to do something like that so cohorts um to do something like that so cohorts would be an option with would be an option with would be an option with NextGen um and I know I'm talking a lot NextGen um and I know I'm talking a lot NextGen um and I know I'm talking a lot but I'll give you one more and then we but I'll give you one more and then we but I'll give you one more and then we can kind of we can kind of pause um can kind of we can kind of pause um can kind of we can kind of pause um something that I would think of is um something that I would think of is um something that I would think of is um and I was actually a a children's Pastor and I was actually a a children's Pastor and I was actually a a children's Pastor for the first six months at Life church for the first six months at Life church for the first six months at Life church so I have very minimal experience but I so I have very minimal experience but I so I have very minimal experience but I have a little bit but I can I can tell have a little bit but I can I can tell have a little bit but I can I can tell you the mindset for me the weekend was you the mindset for me the weekend was you the mindset for me the weekend was focused on the kids focused on the focused on the kids focused on the focused on the kids focused on the volunteers how do I make sure I have an volunteers how do I make sure I have an volunteers how do I make sure I have an experience that is Meaningful for the experience that is Meaningful for the experience that is Meaningful for the kids the children and I have the kids the children and I have the kids the children and I have the volunteers to be able to staff it the volunteers to be able to staff it the volunteers to be able to staff it the second they leave my building I need to second they leave my building I need to second they leave my building I need to change my mindset from children to change my mindset from children to change my mindset from children to parents and so how can I connect with

parents and so how can I connect with parents and so how can I connect with parents I can leverage technology I can parents I can leverage technology I can parents I can leverage technology I can send them the verse for the week I can send them the verse for the week I can send them the verse for the week I can send send them questions that they can send send them questions that they can send send them questions that they can ask during the dinner table it can be an ask during the dinner table it can be an ask during the dinner table it can be an email it can be many of those things and email it can be many of those things and email it can be many of those things and I'll like the most impactful thing for I'll like the most impactful thing for I'll like the most impactful thing for me was when my I believe my son so I've me was when my I believe my son so I've me was when my I believe my son so I've got three kids when my son was moving got three kids when my son was moving got three kids when my son was moving into Middle School um they go all three into Middle School um they go all three into Middle School um they go all three of my kids go to public school Bart I of my kids go to public school Bart I of my kids go to public school Bart I got an email from my public school got an email from my public school got an email from my public school saying hey your son is getting ready to saying hey your son is getting ready to saying hey your son is getting ready to move into Middle School you know just move into Middle School you know just move into Middle School you know just want you to know at this age their their want you to know at this age their their want you to know at this age their their brains are still developing their body's brains are still developing their body's brains are still developing their body's changing as parents you might be changing as parents you might be changing as parents you might be wondering how do I answer these wondering how do I answer these wondering how do I answer these questions as a school we want you to questions as a school we want you to questions as a school we want you to know we're here for you I read that know we're here for you I read that know we're here for you I read that email and I was like a public school is email and I was like a public school is email and I was like a public school is emailing me and helping me raise my kids emailing me and helping me raise my kids emailing me and helping me raise my kids better than my church is better than I better than my church is better than I better than my church is better than I was with my parents and that just messed was with my parents and that just messed was with my parents and that just messed me up and so I think we know the ages of me up and so I think we know the ages of me up and so I think we know the ages of our kids we know when they're moving to our kids we know when they're moving to our kids we know when they're moving to next grade we know what's happening in next grade we know what's happening in next grade we know what's happening in their life how can we be proactively their life how can we be proactively their life how can we be proactively thinking about these life stages and thinking about these life stages and thinking about these life stages and thinking how do I equip my parents thinking how do I equip my parents thinking how do I equip my parents parents how do I equip them because I'm parents how do I equip them because I'm parents how do I equip them because I'm I'm a pastor at a church and I'm still I'm a pastor at a church and I'm still I'm a pastor at a church and I'm still like I have to go online to figure out like I have to go online to figure out like I have to go online to figure out how do I have this talk with my son or how do I have this talk with my son or how do I have this talk with my son or this dog with my two daughters and so if this dog with my two daughters and so if this dog with my two daughters and so if I as a pastor of having those questions I as a pastor of having those questions I as a pastor of having those questions imagine our families in our churches and imagine our families in our churches and imagine our families in our churches and so those are three different ways that so those are three different ways that so those are three different ways that we could practically meet people where we could practically meet people where we could practically meet people where they're at leveraging technology yeah they're at leveraging technology yeah they're at leveraging technology yeah Alan that's a good Insight I think um

Alan that's a good Insight I think um Alan that's a good Insight I think um even for our listeners and even myself even for our listeners and even myself even for our listeners and even myself I'm like trying to digest the fact that I'm like trying to digest the fact that I'm like trying to digest the fact that I'm not live streaming potentially my I'm not live streaming potentially my I'm not live streaming potentially my Sunday morning like it's like then what Sunday morning like it's like then what Sunday morning like it's like then what am I what content am I giving um but you am I what content am I giving um but you am I what content am I giving um but you mentioned about almost knowing your why mentioned about almost knowing your why mentioned about almost knowing your why that is important because there are um that is important because there are um that is important because there are um missional marketing we partner and serve missional marketing we partner and serve missional marketing we partner and serve with a lot of churches of of various with a lot of churches of of various with a lot of churches of of various sizes and some of them their goal is we sizes and some of them their goal is we sizes and some of them their goal is we need people in person we want to be able need people in person we want to be able need people in person we want to be able to shake their hand that's that's their to shake their hand that's that's their to shake their hand that's that's their charm that is what makes them who they charm that is what makes them who they charm that is what makes them who they are but there's also some of churches are but there's also some of churches are but there's also some of churches that they want to have a further Global that they want to have a further Global that they want to have a further Global reach so being aware of why we're doing reach so being aware of why we're doing reach so being aware of why we're doing what we're doing because we do fall into what we're doing because we do fall into what we're doing because we do fall into that trap a lot of times of I want to do that trap a lot of times of I want to do that trap a lot of times of I want to do what Life Life Church is doing I want to what Life Life Church is doing I want to what Life Life Church is doing I want to do what elevation is doing and we just do what elevation is doing and we just do what elevation is doing and we just blur ourselves um you gave some really blur ourselves um you gave some really blur ourselves um you gave some really good practical applications of like how good practical applications of like how good practical applications of like how to make your small group online and even to make your small group online and even to make your small group online and even um your NextGen Ministry what do you um your NextGen Ministry what do you um your NextGen Ministry what do you think are some good Alternatives that if think are some good Alternatives that if think are some good Alternatives that if a church maybe can't do live streaming a church maybe can't do live streaming a church maybe can't do live streaming on a Sunday morning really well but they on a Sunday morning really well but they on a Sunday morning really well but they want to be able to engage an audience want to be able to engage an audience want to be able to engage an audience for a Sunday Morning Experience what are for a Sunday Morning Experience what are for a Sunday Morning Experience what are some good alternatives for that well I some good alternatives for that well I some good alternatives for that well I think most churches today do social think most churches today do social think most churches today do social media um and I think social media I mean media um and I think social media I mean media um and I think social media I mean it's free um I think we sometimes it's free um I think we sometimes it's free um I think we sometimes overthink social media and we look at overthink social media and we look at overthink social media and we look at social media as this digital um social media as this digital um social media as this digital um advertising board or you know it's all advertising board or you know it's all advertising board or you know it's all about let me just tell people what's about let me just tell people what's about let me just tell people what's going on people don't connect with

going on people don't connect with going on people don't connect with announcements uh I hate to break it to announcements uh I hate to break it to announcements uh I hate to break it to everybody that does announcements um in everybody that does announcements um in everybody that does announcements um in fact I think we should get rid of the fact I think we should get rid of the fact I think we should get rid of the word announcements because when we think word announcements because when we think word announcements because when we think about announcements to me so I I travel about announcements to me so I I travel about announcements to me so I I travel a little bit and when I'm on a plane um a little bit and when I'm on a plane um a little bit and when I'm on a plane um as you guys know you know usually the as you guys know you know usually the as you guys know you know usually the steward or the stewards will come and steward or the stewards will come and steward or the stewards will come and say something and hardly ever I mean say something and hardly ever I mean say something and hardly ever I mean I've got my headphones on I am trying to I've got my headphones on I am trying to I've got my headphones on I am trying to block out what they're what they're block out what they're what they're block out what they're what they're saying because I know what they're going saying because I know what they're going saying because I know what they're going to say and I've heard it a million times to say and I've heard it a million times to say and I've heard it a million times I'm sorry I know I'm supposed to listen I'm sorry I know I'm supposed to listen I'm sorry I know I'm supposed to listen to it I'm I'm I apologize you email Bart to it I'm I'm I apologize you email Bart to it I'm I'm I apologize you email Bart about all that but um I I I'm just being about all that but um I I I'm just being about all that but um I I I'm just being try I don't listen to it however every try I don't listen to it however every try I don't listen to it however every time the captain comes online and and time the captain comes online and and time the captain comes online and and chances most of the times I've heard it chances most of the times I've heard it chances most of the times I've heard it the steward or the stewards they're very the steward or the stewards they're very the steward or the stewards they're very clear over the over whatever like the clear over the over whatever like the clear over the over whatever like the you know the speakers but the captain you know the speakers but the captain you know the speakers but the captain you can hardly ever hear her voice or you can hardly ever hear her voice or you can hardly ever hear her voice or his voice and it's kind of mumbled but I his voice and it's kind of mumbled but I his voice and it's kind of mumbled but I I will immediately take off my I will immediately take off my I will immediately take off my headphones because I want to hear what headphones because I want to hear what headphones because I want to hear what the captain's saying because the captain the captain's saying because the captain the captain's saying because the captain will tell me are they going to be bump will tell me are they going to be bump will tell me are they going to be bump on the way am I going to get there on on the way am I going to get there on on the way am I going to get there on time is there is everything and that's time is there is everything and that's time is there is everything and that's important I think if we if we need to important I think if we if we need to important I think if we if we need to quit announcements to me is like what quit announcements to me is like what quit announcements to me is like what the steart or stewards does now if you the steart or stewards does now if you the steart or stewards does now if you can make it fun it's different you know can make it fun it's different you know can make it fun it's different you know there are all those people that do that there are all those people that do that there are all those people that do that but people know when they're hearing the but people know when they're hearing the but people know when they're hearing the same thing and if if so if your social same thing and if if so if your social same thing and if if so if your social media feed is the same thing they're media feed is the same thing they're media feed is the same thing they're going to get bored if your social media going to get bored if your social media going to get bored if your social media feed is authentic and they have the feed is authentic and they have the feed is authentic and they have the opportunity to get to know you I think

opportunity to get to know you I think opportunity to get to know you I think that's a g change I'll give you another that's a g change I'll give you another that's a g change I'll give you another example when we were doing um when when example when we were doing um when when example when we were doing um when when Co was happening a lot of churches had Co was happening a lot of churches had Co was happening a lot of churches had shut down many people went to social shut down many people went to social shut down many people went to social media and they were having these back media and they were having these back media and they were having these back porch Bible studies and sharing their porch Bible studies and sharing their porch Bible studies and sharing their heart you saw engagement go through the heart you saw engagement go through the heart you saw engagement go through the roof sad part is when Co shut down all roof sad part is when Co shut down all roof sad part is when Co shut down all the online people continued to do what the online people continued to do what the online people continued to do what they were doing but all the physical they were doing but all the physical they were doing but all the physical people that had you know physical people that had you know physical people that had you know physical location people that had used online location people that had used online location people that had used online they went back to their stages yeah they went back to their stages yeah they went back to their stages yeah because it's like oh now people are because it's like oh now people are because it's like oh now people are coming back to me so I don't I don't coming back to me so I don't I don't coming back to me so I don't I don't need to do it anymore what they forget need to do it anymore what they forget need to do it anymore what they forget is many of them have said that while is many of them have said that while is many of them have said that while they were online more people felt they were online more people felt they were online more people felt connected to them then than they felt connected to them then than they felt connected to them then than they felt connected to their Pastor while their connected to their Pastor while their connected to their Pastor while their Pastor was purely on stage and so if you Pastor was purely on stage and so if you Pastor was purely on stage and so if you want to make your big church feel small want to make your big church feel small want to make your big church feel small here's your opportunity if you want to here's your opportunity if you want to here's your opportunity if you want to make your small Church feel big then do make your small Church feel big then do make your small Church feel big then do the big flashy whatever thing no one's the big flashy whatever thing no one's the big flashy whatever thing no one's going to connect with you but if that's going to connect with you but if that's going to connect with you but if that's what you want go ahead and do that but what you want go ahead and do that but what you want go ahead and do that but if you want connection if you want connection if you want connection then you've got to rethink the way that then you've got to rethink the way that then you've got to rethink the way that you're doing social media at least and you're doing social media at least and you're doing social media at least and this is purely speaking social media this is purely speaking social media this is purely speaking social media there's many other ways we can do it but there's many other ways we can do it but there's many other ways we can do it but I think that's an easy free available I think that's an easy free available I think that's an easy free available for everybody kind of next step alen for everybody kind of next step alen for everybody kind of next step alen outside of social media do you see any outside of social media do you see any outside of social media do you see any churches using any you mentioned Apollo churches using any you mentioned Apollo churches using any you mentioned Apollo uh app earlier and we're familiar with uh app earlier and we're familiar with uh app earlier and we're familiar with them and and have some church partners them and and have some church partners them and and have some church partners that we work with that use their use that we work with that use their use that we work with that use their use their tool are there any other um Tools their tool are there any other um Tools their tool are there any other um Tools digital tools digital things that you

digital tools digital things that you digital tools digital things that you see churches using innovatively to build see churches using innovatively to build see churches using innovatively to build their online community um I know some their online community um I know some their online community um I know some Churches have started to experiment with Churches have started to experiment with Churches have started to experiment with Discord which you know for some of our Discord which you know for some of our Discord which you know for some of our listeners or viewers on YouTube they're listeners or viewers on YouTube they're listeners or viewers on YouTube they're like I don't know what a Discord is well like I don't know what a Discord is well like I don't know what a Discord is well that you know anything that you can that you know anything that you can that you know anything that you can speak into that you've seen other speak into that you've seen other speak into that you've seen other churches doing you know and and this is churches doing you know and and this is churches doing you know and and this is where you'll see the the non-technical where you'll see the the non-technical where you'll see the the non-technical side of me for me I've always leaned side of me for me I've always leaned side of me for me I've always leaned towards the Pastoral perspective or the towards the Pastoral perspective or the towards the Pastoral perspective or the people's side and so that's where for me people's side and so that's where for me people's side and so that's where for me it always starts with what am I trying it always starts with what am I trying it always starts with what am I trying to accomplish if I start there I'll to accomplish if I start there I'll to accomplish if I start there I'll figure out a tool that fits that cause figure out a tool that fits that cause figure out a tool that fits that cause um I think Discord is a great tool I um I think Discord is a great tool I um I think Discord is a great tool I think Slack's a great tool I think think Slack's a great tool I think think Slack's a great tool I think they're all great tools but I think they're all great tools but I think they're all great tools but I think Discord will reach a particular type of Discord will reach a particular type of Discord will reach a particular type of audience slack will reach a different audience slack will reach a different audience slack will reach a different type of audience your Apollo's app would type of audience your Apollo's app would type of audience your Apollo's app would reach a different type of audience so I reach a different type of audience so I reach a different type of audience so I think if someone's tempted to go start think if someone's tempted to go start think if someone's tempted to go start something don't look at the tool first something don't look at the tool first something don't look at the tool first with be my advice look at what you're with be my advice look at what you're with be my advice look at what you're trying to accomplish and then identify trying to accomplish and then identify trying to accomplish and then identify the right tool it's the interesting the right tool it's the interesting the right tool it's the interesting thing is we do this in almost every thing is we do this in almost every thing is we do this in almost every other area of our life if I'm trying to other area of our life if I'm trying to other area of our life if I'm trying to I know you live in Dallas and Zach I know you live in Dallas and Zach I know you live in Dallas and Zach you're in Philly if I if if if Bart and you're in Philly if I if if if Bart and you're in Philly if I if if if Bart and I wanted to go visit you Zach we're both I wanted to go visit you Zach we're both I wanted to go visit you Zach we're both going to figure out okay from Dallas I going to figure out okay from Dallas I going to figure out okay from Dallas I could probably drive to Dallas and if we could probably drive to Dallas and if we could probably drive to Dallas and if we want we can fly together to Philly but want we can fly together to Philly but want we can fly together to Philly but we will figure out our strategy based on we will figure out our strategy based on we will figure out our strategy based on the destination we want to go the destination we want to go the destination we want to go when it comes to online Ministry I don't

when it comes to online Ministry I don't when it comes to online Ministry I don't know why we throw that out the window we know why we throw that out the window we know why we throw that out the window we go oh what's this church doing I'm just go oh what's this church doing I'm just go oh what's this church doing I'm just okay Discord let's just do Discord and okay Discord let's just do Discord and okay Discord let's just do Discord and then we get frustrated when discord's then we get frustrated when discord's then we get frustrated when discord's not working because a church might be not working because a church might be not working because a church might be using Discord to reach a specific Gaming using Discord to reach a specific Gaming using Discord to reach a specific Gaming Community or somebody else and so I I Community or somebody else and so I I Community or somebody else and so I I would always encourage teams to First would always encourage teams to First would always encourage teams to First figure out what are you trying to figure out what are you trying to figure out what are you trying to accomplish what goal are you trying to accomplish what goal are you trying to accomplish what goal are you trying to figure out how to do then once you've figure out how to do then once you've figure out how to do then once you've identify that what's the right tool that identify that what's the right tool that identify that what's the right tool that can help you accomplish that go that can help you accomplish that go that can help you accomplish that go that would be the kind of way of thinking would be the kind of way of thinking would be the kind of way of thinking that I would go after ladies and that I would go after ladies and that I would go after ladies and gentlemen that was worth the price of gentlemen that was worth the price of gentlemen that was worth the price of admission right there that yeah I think admission right there that yeah I think admission right there that yeah I think you're right I I think we do have a you're right I I think we do have a you're right I I think we do have a tendency sometimes to to chase the shiny tendency sometimes to to chase the shiny tendency sometimes to to chase the shiny things right we see something that things right we see something that things right we see something that someone else is doing or we hear about someone else is doing or we hear about someone else is doing or we hear about something and we jump on the bandwagon something and we jump on the bandwagon something and we jump on the bandwagon because we want to use it um Zach I because we want to use it um Zach I because we want to use it um Zach I think you made an interesting point just think you made an interesting point just think you made an interesting point just a few minutes ago in in that not all a few minutes ago in in that not all a few minutes ago in in that not all churches we've talked about this a churches we've talked about this a churches we've talked about this a little bit to some degree little bit to some degree little bit to some degree a lot of churches do an online worship a lot of churches do an online worship a lot of churches do an online worship experience not all of them are good experience not all of them are good experience not all of them are good sometimes your online experience sometimes your online experience sometimes your online experience actually hurts you more than it helps actually hurts you more than it helps actually hurts you more than it helps you especially as it relates to reaching you especially as it relates to reaching you especially as it relates to reaching unchurched or pre-charged pre-christian unchurched or pre-charged pre-christian unchurched or pre-charged pre-christian people right uh you know my home church people right uh you know my home church people right uh you know my home church here in the Dallas Fort Worth area has a here in the Dallas Fort Worth area has a here in the Dallas Fort Worth area has a live stream that is television quality live stream that is television quality live stream that is television quality broadcast I led worship at a small rural broadcast I led worship at a small rural broadcast I led worship at a small rural church yesterday church yesterday church yesterday that broadcast on Facebook and I went

that broadcast on Facebook and I went that broadcast on Facebook and I went back and watched a little bit of the back and watched a little bit of the back and watched a little bit of the live stream after the fact and you know live stream after the fact and you know live stream after the fact and you know it's no offense to to them they're doing it's no offense to to them they're doing it's no offense to to them they're doing the best they have with the tools that the best they have with the tools that the best they have with the tools that they have but you know the the audio they have but you know the the audio they have but you know the the audio compression was not good the video compression was not good the video compression was not good the video quality was okay um they're never going quality was okay um they're never going quality was okay um they're never going to compete with a large medicate church to compete with a large medicate church to compete with a large medicate church that has you know all you know a that has you know all you know a that has you know all you know a multi-million dollar um setup so back multi-million dollar um setup so back multi-million dollar um setup so back let's let's back up the truck on Zach's let's let's back up the truck on Zach's let's let's back up the truck on Zach's previous question which was okay if I'm previous question which was okay if I'm previous question which was okay if I'm not going to do Church online as that not going to do Church online as that not going to do Church online as that main entry point for Sunday morning what main entry point for Sunday morning what main entry point for Sunday morning what do I do as a main entry point to connect do I do as a main entry point to connect do I do as a main entry point to connect with people online if that's if if it's with people online if that's if if it's with people online if that's if if it's not hey get them to watch my service not hey get them to watch my service not hey get them to watch my service online and then take a Next Step from online and then take a Next Step from online and then take a Next Step from there what are some things that I can do there what are some things that I can do there what are some things that I can do that actually start relationships with that actually start relationships with that actually start relationships with people online so that I can begin to people online so that I can begin to people online so that I can begin to actually do evangelism or disciple them actually do evangelism or disciple them actually do evangelism or disciple them online without being dependent on that online without being dependent on that online without being dependent on that live stream yeah um live stream yeah um live stream yeah um which audience are we talking to are we which audience are we talking to are we which audience are we talking to are we talking to the unchurch or are we talking to the unchurch or are we talking to the unchurch or are we talking talking talking to people that are looking for a church to people that are looking for a church to people that are looking for a church who who are we talking to that's a good who who are we talking to that's a good who who are we talking to that's a good question I tell you what anybody who question I tell you what anybody who question I tell you what anybody who knows me knows I'm always going to knows me knows I'm always going to knows me knows I'm always going to default first to the people who don't default first to the people who don't default first to the people who don't yet know Jesus right like I'm like okay yet know Jesus right like I'm like okay yet know Jesus right like I'm like okay there's two components here yes I there's two components here yes I there's two components here yes I understand we need to grow disciples to understand we need to grow disciples to understand we need to grow disciples to be like Jesus but we can't grow be like Jesus but we can't grow be like Jesus but we can't grow disciples to be like Jesus if we're not disciples to be like Jesus if we're not disciples to be like Jesus if we're not making disciples who don't yet know making disciples who don't yet know making disciples who don't yet know Jesus so why don't we start there what Jesus so why don't we start there what Jesus so why don't we start there what what are some things that we can do what are some things that we can do what are some things that we can do evangelistically and then we can kind of evangelistically and then we can kind of evangelistically and then we can kind of talk a little bit more about the talk a little bit more about the talk a little bit more about the discipleship side of that and and this

discipleship side of that and and this discipleship side of that and and this is the tricky part it's like so you is the tricky part it's like so you is the tricky part it's like so you brought two churches you've got a you brought two churches you've got a you brought two churches you've got a you know large church that's got you know know large church that's got you know know large church that's got you know mil you know whatever they've got mil you know whatever they've got mil you know whatever they've got they're really set up well and then they're really set up well and then they're really set up well and then you've got a rural church I think the you've got a rural church I think the you've got a rural church I think the struggle is trying to figure out if I struggle is trying to figure out if I struggle is trying to figure out if I was in the rural community what's the was in the rural community what's the was in the rural community what's the best way to reach that rural community best way to reach that rural community best way to reach that rural community versus if I was in Dallas what's the versus if I was in Dallas what's the versus if I was in Dallas what's the best way to reach the people in Dallas I best way to reach the people in Dallas I best way to reach the people in Dallas I think that would I and I it's hard to think that would I and I it's hard to think that would I and I it's hard to give a blanket answer because I don't give a blanket answer because I don't give a blanket answer because I don't know the rural community Dallas I can know the rural community Dallas I can know the rural community Dallas I can kind of figure out just because I'm more kind of figure out just because I'm more kind of figure out just because I'm more living in that space um i' also just a living in that space um i' also just a living in that space um i' also just a quick little Rabbit Trail if you're quick little Rabbit Trail if you're quick little Rabbit Trail if you're looking at a large church and this is looking at a large church and this is looking at a large church and this is not all large churches but a lot of not all large churches but a lot of not all large churches but a lot of times large churches are doing what times large churches are doing what times large churches are doing what they're doing because that's easy to do they're doing because that's easy to do they're doing because that's easy to do um to Pivot when you're in a large um to Pivot when you're in a large um to Pivot when you're in a large church is very difficult because you've church is very difficult because you've church is very difficult because you've got Staffing you've got structure you've got Staffing you've got structure you've got Staffing you've got structure you've got all of of that's set up a certain got all of of that's set up a certain got all of of that's set up a certain way if you want to do the most latest way if you want to do the most latest way if you want to do the most latest Innovative thing most of them can't Innovative thing most of them can't Innovative thing most of them can't because they don't have they don't have because they don't have they don't have because they don't have they don't have extra resources to throw there we think extra resources to throw there we think extra resources to throw there we think large churches can do whatever they want large churches can do whatever they want large churches can do whatever they want a lot of times it's harder to turn a big a lot of times it's harder to turn a big a lot of times it's harder to turn a big ship than it is to turn a little ship than it is to turn a little ship than it is to turn a little speedboat around so if you're a small speedboat around so if you're a small speedboat around so if you're a small church I actually would say you have an church I actually would say you have an church I actually would say you have an advantage so that's just a little little advantage so that's just a little little advantage so that's just a little little little thing there if if I was in D if I little thing there if if I was in D if I little thing there if if I was in D if I was living in the Dallas area can we do was living in the Dallas area can we do was living in the Dallas area can we do Dallas because I'm not familiar with the Dallas because I'm not familiar with the Dallas because I'm not familiar with the rural I I think like there's a church in rural I I think like there's a church in rural I I think like there's a church in in the Dallas Fort Worth area called in the Dallas Fort Worth area called in the Dallas Fort Worth area called Chase Oaks um incredible Church they're

Chase Oaks um incredible Church they're Chase Oaks um incredible Church they're doing a lot of things multi-site Church doing a lot of things multi-site Church doing a lot of things multi-site Church what they've done is they're doing what they've done is they're doing what they've done is they're doing something really interesting again um if something really interesting again um if something really interesting again um if we're trying to think of a digital we're trying to think of a digital we're trying to think of a digital strategy I wouldn't start with the strategy I wouldn't start with the strategy I wouldn't start with the digital strategy I'd start with who the digital strategy I'd start with who the digital strategy I'd start with who the church is and what they're trying to do church is and what they're trying to do church is and what they're trying to do and so one thing that they're trying to and so one thing that they're trying to and so one thing that they're trying to do is they started this new initiative do is they started this new initiative do is they started this new initiative called um the the the the good called um the the the the good called um the the the the good Collective um I'm probably messing up Collective um I'm probably messing up Collective um I'm probably messing up the name but it's basically they've got the name but it's basically they've got the name but it's basically they've got a coffee shop they've all and not your a coffee shop they've all and not your a coffee shop they've all and not your typical Church coffee shop it's like an typical Church coffee shop it's like an typical Church coffee shop it's like an outside location coffee shop it's got outside location coffee shop it's got outside location coffee shop it's got pickle ball courts they've got pickle pickle ball courts they've got pickle pickle ball courts they've got pickle ball courts they've got a basketball ball courts they've got a basketball ball courts they've got a basketball court they've actually got a community court they've actually got a community court they've actually got a community center where you can it's like a pantry center where you can it's like a pantry center where you can it's like a pantry but then they've also got another space but then they've also got another space but then they've also got another space where they do ESL they teach you how to where they do ESL they teach you how to where they do ESL they teach you how to speak English they've got you know speak English they've got you know speak English they've got you know practical work rated stuff and I asked practical work rated stuff and I asked practical work rated stuff and I asked them like training people for jobs and them like training people for jobs and them like training people for jobs and things and I asked them like hey what things and I asked them like hey what things and I asked them like hey what what's what's your goal what's your win what's what's your goal what's your win what's what's your goal what's your win and I fully expected them to say oh and I fully expected them to say oh and I fully expected them to say oh every person that comes here we're going every person that comes here we're going every person that comes here we're going to take them to church and it's going to to take them to church and it's going to to take them to church and it's going to lead in attendance and they actually lead in attendance and they actually lead in attendance and they actually their goals weren't related to their goals weren't related to their goals weren't related to attendance and I sat there and I'm going attendance and I sat there and I'm going attendance and I sat there and I'm going like here's a church that's building a like here's a church that's building a like here's a church that's building a strategy not based on their Auditorium strategy not based on their Auditorium strategy not based on their Auditorium but it's based on the community that but it's based on the community that but it's based on the community that they live in and so for the coffee shop they live in and so for the coffee shop they live in and so for the coffee shop for example they've partnered with other for example they've partnered with other for example they've partnered with other influencers in the area that are around influencers in the area that are around influencers in the area that are around pickle ball stuff and coffee and food pickle ball stuff and coffee and food pickle ball stuff and coffee and food and things like that and they're and things like that and they're and things like that and they're figuring out Partnerships to post and figuring out Partnerships to post and figuring out Partnerships to post and bring awareness to the coffee shop you bring awareness to the coffee shop you bring awareness to the coffee shop you have to do a little bit of digging which have to do a little bit of digging which have to do a little bit of digging which will then help you figure out oh this is

will then help you figure out oh this is will then help you figure out oh this is Chase Oaks doing this but in my mind I Chase Oaks doing this but in my mind I Chase Oaks doing this but in my mind I thought man they're authentically trying thought man they're authentically trying thought man they're authentically trying to reach their Community without just to reach their Community without just to reach their Community without just focusing on attendance they want to focusing on attendance they want to focusing on attendance they want to focus on their people now there is an focus on their people now there is an focus on their people now there is an attendance strategy and all that so like attendance strategy and all that so like attendance strategy and all that so like don't get me wrong it's there but don't get me wrong it's there but don't get me wrong it's there but they're approaching it very very they're approaching it very very they're approaching it very very differently um I I know differently um I I know differently um I I know there there are a few other churches there there are a few other churches there there are a few other churches that I'm aware of I think Willow Creek that I'm aware of I think Willow Creek that I'm aware of I think Willow Creek is trying to do something similar right is trying to do something similar right is trying to do something similar right now and now and now and so I think there are ways to do this so I think there are ways to do this so I think there are ways to do this based on the community that you're based on the community that you're based on the community that you're living in and who you are as a church living in and who you are as a church living in and who you are as a church now a church could hear the strategy and now a church could hear the strategy and now a church could hear the strategy and go we're going to do what Chase Oaks is go we're going to do what Chase Oaks is go we're going to do what Chase Oaks is doing I wouldn't recommend that because doing I wouldn't recommend that because doing I wouldn't recommend that because if you're not Chase Oaks don't do it if you're not Chase Oaks don't do it if you're not Chase Oaks don't do it you've got to be true to who you are you've got to be true to who you are you've got to be true to who you are true to what God has placed in your true to what God has placed in your true to what God has placed in your heart so that's one so now when you have heart so that's one so now when you have heart so that's one so now when you have that strategy you want to layer your that strategy you want to layer your that strategy you want to layer your digital strategy based on that existing digital strategy based on that existing digital strategy based on that existing strategy I wouldn't create a digital strategy I wouldn't create a digital strategy I wouldn't create a digital strategy just for the heck of it I would strategy just for the heck of it I would strategy just for the heck of it I would create a digital strategy that matches create a digital strategy that matches create a digital strategy that matches who you are in person and so that's what who you are in person and so that's what who you are in person and so that's what they're doing does that help yeah let me they're doing does that help yeah let me they're doing does that help yeah let me let me speak to that a little bit let me speak to that a little bit let me speak to that a little bit because CH Chase hoax is one of our our because CH Chase hoax is one of our our because CH Chase hoax is one of our our uh Partners at missional marketing and uh Partners at missional marketing and uh Partners at missional marketing and so I I know what they're doing very very so I I know what they're doing very very so I I know what they're doing very very well so you're right they have their well so you're right they have their well so you're right they have their local good initiative local good Center local good initiative local good Center local good initiative local good Center uh but here's the other thing that they uh but here's the other thing that they uh but here's the other thing that they have done amazingly well is they have have done amazingly well is they have have done amazingly well is they have they have tons of content on their they have tons of content on their they have tons of content on their website that is felt need based content website that is felt need based content website that is felt need based content uh blog content all optimized for search uh blog content all optimized for search uh blog content all optimized for search so they get boatloads of organic traffic

so they get boatloads of organic traffic so they get boatloads of organic traffic to their website from people who are to their website from people who are to their website from people who are looking for answers to real life looking for answers to real life looking for answers to real life questions they come to the website and questions they come to the website and questions they come to the website and then even on some of those blog posts then even on some of those blog posts then even on some of those blog posts and on their website they have lead and on their website they have lead and on their website they have lead generation content that allows them to generation content that allows them to generation content that allows them to grab people's names and email addresses grab people's names and email addresses grab people's names and email addresses so that they can then communicate to so that they can then communicate to so that they can then communicate to them more about the local good them more about the local good them more about the local good initiatives and the other things that initiatives and the other things that initiatives and the other things that they're doing yeah I think in the grand they're doing yeah I think in the grand they're doing yeah I think in the grand scheme of things most roads are probably scheme of things most roads are probably scheme of things most roads are probably going to lead to an in-person on campus going to lead to an in-person on campus going to lead to an in-person on campus um experience at one of their locations um experience at one of their locations um experience at one of their locations but you're right it's not when you engag but you're right it's not when you engag but you're right it's not when you engag with Chase Oaks it doesn't feel like with Chase Oaks it doesn't feel like with Chase Oaks it doesn't feel like it's if you're not in person online it's if you're not in person online it's if you're not in person online you're you don't matter right if you're you're you don't matter right if you're you're you don't matter right if you're not if you're not in person you don't not if you're not in person you don't not if you're not in person you don't matter we can have a relationship online matter we can have a relationship online matter we can have a relationship online and nurture that relationship for a and nurture that relationship for a and nurture that relationship for a season until you have enough trust in us season until you have enough trust in us season until you have enough trust in us to actually show up at an inperson to actually show up at an inperson to actually show up at an inperson engagement so it's it's a really good engagement so it's it's a really good engagement so it's it's a really good example I'm glad you're part of that one example I'm glad you're part of that one example I'm glad you're part of that one and I think sometimes the mistake and and I think sometimes the mistake and and I think sometimes the mistake and I've made this so this is not pointing I've made this so this is not pointing I've made this so this is not pointing fingers at anybody else I've made this fingers at anybody else I've made this fingers at anybody else I've made this in my mind because the goals that I had in my mind because the goals that I had in my mind because the goals that I had the numbers that I was trying to focus the numbers that I was trying to focus the numbers that I was trying to focus on a lot of it was attendance on a lot of it was attendance on a lot of it was attendance unfortunately no matter what someone was unfortunately no matter what someone was unfortunately no matter what someone was going through my answer to them was going through my answer to them was going through my answer to them was always come to church yeah and sometimes always come to church yeah and sometimes always come to church yeah and sometimes that is the right answer but sometimes that is the right answer but sometimes that is the right answer but sometimes that's not the right answer sometimes that's not the right answer sometimes that's not the right answer sometimes it's spending one more conversation with it's spending one more conversation with it's spending one more conversation with them or spending time in prayer and them or spending time in prayer and them or spending time in prayer and maybe coming into a 600 800,000 seat maybe coming into a 600 800,000 seat maybe coming into a 600 800,000 seat Auditorium is not the right Next Step Auditorium is not the right Next Step Auditorium is not the right Next Step for them in that moment and so for me

for them in that moment and so for me for them in that moment and so for me unfortunately I had numbers and goals unfortunately I had numbers and goals unfortunately I had numbers and goals that I was focused on and so every that I was focused on and so every that I was focused on and so every conversation man my marriage is conversation man my marriage is conversation man my marriage is struggling hey you know what um I think struggling hey you know what um I think struggling hey you know what um I think the next step for you is come to church the next step for you is come to church the next step for you is come to church hey um I'm I'm struggling with my young hey um I'm I'm struggling with my young hey um I'm I'm struggling with my young adult child hey I think you know next adult child hey I think you know next adult child hey I think you know next step is come to church and I say I mean step is come to church and I say I mean step is come to church and I say I mean I I say this laughingly but I mean I I say this laughingly but I mean I I say this laughingly but I mean that's honestly it was with good that's honestly it was with good that's honestly it was with good intention but I was but my priority I intention but I was but my priority I intention but I was but my priority I think when I look back was more I need think when I look back was more I need think when I look back was more I need to I we're this is the mission that we to I we're this is the mission that we to I we're this is the mission that we have it's I need to bring people to have it's I need to bring people to have it's I need to bring people to church and it's a good Mission and it's church and it's a good Mission and it's church and it's a good Mission and it's it's a valuable important Mission it's a valuable important Mission it's a valuable important Mission because that's where the gospel is because that's where the gospel is because that's where the gospel is preached that's where a lot of life preached that's where a lot of life preached that's where a lot of life change happens but not everyone is ready change happens but not everyone is ready change happens but not everyone is ready for that as their next step it might be for that as their next step it might be for that as their next step it might be their fifth or sixth or seventh but but their fifth or sixth or seventh but but their fifth or sixth or seventh but but in order for me to figure out what their in order for me to figure out what their in order for me to figure out what their next step is I need to listen and so the next step is I need to listen and so the next step is I need to listen and so the same thing is present online I had I I same thing is present online I had I I same thing is present online I had I I had so many people reach out to me on had so many people reach out to me on had so many people reach out to me on social media not because they knew I was social media not because they knew I was social media not because they knew I was a Life Church Pastor it's because they a Life Church Pastor it's because they a Life Church Pastor it's because they they just saw some of my post and they they just saw some of my post and they they just saw some of my post and they were encouraged by it and so they would were encouraged by it and so they would were encouraged by it and so they would just reach out and say hey I I are you a just reach out and say hey I I are you a just reach out and say hey I I are you a pastor or in some cases they'd say hey pastor or in some cases they'd say hey pastor or in some cases they'd say hey are you religious because they didn't are you religious because they didn't are you religious because they didn't know how to like they didn't understand know how to like they didn't understand know how to like they didn't understand the world of Christianity and this and the world of Christianity and this and the world of Christianity and this and they just share their heart and when I they just share their heart and when I they just share their heart and when I would read these posts I mean imagine would read these posts I mean imagine would read these posts I mean imagine how lonely someone is to where they had how lonely someone is to where they had how lonely someone is to where they had no one else in the whole world they no one else in the whole world they no one else in the whole world they could share what they're struggling with

could share what they're struggling with could share what they're struggling with to and they have to find some random guy to and they have to find some random guy to and they have to find some random guy on Instagram or Facebook to to share on Instagram or Facebook to to share on Instagram or Facebook to to share what they're going through hoping to what they're going through hoping to what they're going through hoping to hear a word of encouragement and to me hear a word of encouragement and to me hear a word of encouragement and to me that that would just break my heart and that that would just break my heart and that that would just break my heart and so so it it is not as complicated as so so it it is not as complicated as so so it it is not as complicated as sometimes we think it's just are you sometimes we think it's just are you sometimes we think it's just are you willing to meet people where they're at willing to meet people where they're at willing to meet people where they're at put aside our agenda and let our agenda put aside our agenda and let our agenda put aside our agenda and let our agenda be people first man I think you would be people first man I think you would be people first man I think you would see Ministry opportunities in every see Ministry opportunities in every see Ministry opportunities in every conversation that can come our conversation that can come our conversation that can come our way wow uh man I'm looking at the clock way wow uh man I'm looking at the clock way wow uh man I'm looking at the clock here and we're running out of time and here and we're running out of time and here and we're running out of time and we really didn't even get to what I we really didn't even get to what I we really didn't even get to what I really wanted to talk about today so let really wanted to talk about today so let really wanted to talk about today so let Sor top my my stories are like Sor top my my stories are like Sor top my my stories are like longwinded my answ are long it's been longwinded my answ are long it's been longwinded my answ are long it's been excellent um Alan one of the things we excellent um Alan one of the things we excellent um Alan one of the things we did want to talk about today is an did want to talk about today is an did want to talk about today is an online course that you have available online course that you have available online course that you have available for people who are wanting to strengthen for people who are wanting to strengthen for people who are wanting to strengthen their online Ministry the course is their online Ministry the course is their online Ministry the course is called online as it is in heaven uh why called online as it is in heaven uh why called online as it is in heaven uh why don't you give us an overview of what don't you give us an overview of what don't you give us an overview of what what a person could expect if they what a person could expect if they what a person could expect if they decided to engage with this online decided to engage with this online decided to engage with this online curriculum that you have yeah I thank curriculum that you have yeah I thank curriculum that you have yeah I thank you for mentioning that um for me this you for mentioning that um for me this you for mentioning that um for me this course it is especially as I started course it is especially as I started course it is especially as I started helping churches and pastors I notice a helping churches and pastors I notice a helping churches and pastors I notice a lot of questions that people were asking lot of questions that people were asking lot of questions that people were asking whether you're from a small small church whether you're from a small small church whether you're from a small small church or big church mediumsized however you or big church mediumsized however you or big church mediumsized however you want to look at it I think there are want to look at it I think there are want to look at it I think there are some foundational things that we need to some foundational things that we need to some foundational things that we need to understand when it comes to some of the understand when it comes to some of the understand when it comes to some of the things that we talked about like what do things that we talked about like what do things that we talked about like what do I do if I want to do an online service I do if I want to do an online service I do if I want to do an online service how should I think about it how do I how should I think about it how do I how should I think about it how do I figure out you know volunteers how do I

figure out you know volunteers how do I figure out you know volunteers how do I think about small groups how do I think think about small groups how do I think think about small groups how do I think about volunteers what data should I be about volunteers what data should I be about volunteers what data should I be looking at should I do marketing stuff looking at should I do marketing stuff looking at should I do marketing stuff um I even have one lesson that talks um I even have one lesson that talks um I even have one lesson that talks about camera communication because I about camera communication because I about camera communication because I think that's important as well and so think that's important as well and so think that's important as well and so essentially what the course is it's 10 essentially what the course is it's 10 essentially what the course is it's 10 lessons that take you through all of lessons that take you through all of lessons that take you through all of these topics and then it gives you an these topics and then it gives you an these topics and then it gives you an opportunity for you and if you're going opportunity for you and if you're going opportunity for you and if you're going through it with your team for you to set through it with your team for you to set through it with your team for you to set uh an appointment with me and we'll take uh an appointment with me and we'll take uh an appointment with me and we'll take an hour hour and a half and we'll just an hour hour and a half and we'll just an hour hour and a half and we'll just handle all the questions that you've had handle all the questions that you've had handle all the questions that you've had as you've gone through this course in my as you've gone through this course in my as you've gone through this course in my mind I haven't seen another course out mind I haven't seen another course out mind I haven't seen another course out there like this it's it's it's one of there like this it's it's it's one of there like this it's it's it's one of the best courses and resources out there the best courses and resources out there the best courses and resources out there for anybody that's trying to figure for anybody that's trying to figure for anybody that's trying to figure online Ministry and if you've been been online Ministry and if you've been been online Ministry and if you've been been doing online Ministry but maybe you've doing online Ministry but maybe you've doing online Ministry but maybe you've been doing it the way like I I talked to been doing it the way like I I talked to been doing it the way like I I talked to a church the other day and the guy he a church the other day and the guy he a church the other day and the guy he was the third Church online pastor and I was the third Church online pastor and I was the third Church online pastor and I asked him a few questions so why do you asked him a few questions so why do you asked him a few questions so why do you do this he's like uh because this is how do this he's like uh because this is how do this he's like uh because this is how we always do it okay what about this uh we always do it okay what about this uh we always do it okay what about this uh the previous guy did it okay well what the previous guy did it okay well what the previous guy did it okay well what about and it's like okay bro like you about and it's like okay bro like you about and it's like okay bro like you need to have some like you need you need to have some like you need you need to have some like you need you can't just do what somebody else did can't just do what somebody else did can't just do what somebody else did you've got to know why you're doing it you've got to know why you're doing it you've got to know why you're doing it and so if you've got a team member staff and so if you've got a team member staff and so if you've got a team member staff member that's either new or have been in member that's either new or have been in member that's either new or have been in this role for a while but you need to this role for a while but you need to this role for a while but you need to hit that reset button I think this is a hit that reset button I think this is a hit that reset button I think this is a course that's critical for anybody course that's critical for anybody course that's critical for anybody that's in that role to help you figure that's in that role to help you figure that's in that role to help you figure out what your strategy for this day and out what your strategy for this day and out what your strategy for this day and age needs to be when it comes to digital age needs to be when it comes to digital age needs to be when it comes to digital Ministry and Allan where can people Ministry and Allan where can people Ministry and Allan where can people connect with you to get your course and connect with you to get your course and connect with you to get your course and um be able to connect with you in a

um be able to connect with you in a um be able to connect with you in a meeting um best place is Allen v meeting um best place is Allen v meeting um best place is Allen v george.com um I've also got an george.com um I've also got an george.com um I've also got an opportunity where people can set up a opportunity where people can set up a opportunity where people can set up a meeting with me there and request a Time meeting with me there and request a Time meeting with me there and request a Time figure out a time slot and things like figure out a time slot and things like figure out a time slot and things like that that's the best place to start I've that that's the best place to start I've that that's the best place to start I've got a few blog posts there that talk got a few blog posts there that talk got a few blog posts there that talk about some of these topics as well U but about some of these topics as well U but about some of these topics as well U but you'll find the course there you'll find you'll find the course there you'll find you'll find the course there you'll find all of that there I've got also got a all of that there I've got also got a all of that there I've got also got a free uh PDF kind of uh ebook available free uh PDF kind of uh ebook available free uh PDF kind of uh ebook available uh if if for some if they're interested uh if if for some if they're interested uh if if for some if they're interested Allen vorge docomo link to that in the Allen vorge docomo link to that in the Allen vorge docomo link to that in the show notes for any of you who are show notes for any of you who are show notes for any of you who are interested in checking that out Allan we interested in checking that out Allan we interested in checking that out Allan we really do appreciate you uh taking the really do appreciate you uh taking the really do appreciate you uh taking the time out of your schedule uh to hang out time out of your schedule uh to hang out time out of your schedule uh to hang out with us and to share with our audience with us and to share with our audience with us and to share with our audience uh any parting words for our listeners uh any parting words for our listeners uh any parting words for our listeners before we we wrap this up before we we wrap this up before we we wrap this up today I if if there's one common threat today I if if there's one common threat today I if if there's one common threat I've seen in most conversations it's I've seen in most conversations it's I've seen in most conversations it's people always thinking about strategy people always thinking about strategy people always thinking about strategy first instead of thinking about their first instead of thinking about their first instead of thinking about their why start with your why even if you've why start with your why even if you've why start with your why even if you've been a church that's been doing it for a been a church that's been doing it for a been a church that's been doing it for a while go back look at your why identify while go back look at your why identify while go back look at your why identify get that clear in your heart why do we get that clear in your heart why do we get that clear in your heart why do we exist who are we here to exist for and exist who are we here to exist for and exist who are we here to exist for and and what do we want them to feel think and what do we want them to feel think and what do we want them to feel think what's that next step we want to do have what's that next step we want to do have what's that next step we want to do have Clarity in that space first and it Clarity in that space first and it Clarity in that space first and it always helps to have an outside voice always helps to have an outside voice always helps to have an outside voice kind of help you navigate those kind of help you navigate those kind of help you navigate those conversations so I'll be happy to do conversations so I'll be happy to do conversations so I'll be happy to do that for any church or any leader that's that for any church or any leader that's that for any church or any leader that's interested and then then build your interested and then then build your interested and then then build your strategy from there so that would strategy from there so that would strategy from there so that would be advice that I would give Bart Zack be advice that I would give Bart Zack be advice that I would give Bart Zack thank you so much for the opportunity

thank you so much for the opportunity thank you so much for the opportunity I'm I'm extremely passionate about all I'm I'm extremely passionate about all I'm I'm extremely passionate about all the things that you guys are doing as the things that you guys are doing as the things that you guys are doing as well to help grow the kingdom help well to help grow the kingdom help well to help grow the kingdom help churches meet meet their communities churches meet meet their communities churches meet meet their communities better and connect with them better so I better and connect with them better so I better and connect with them better so I love what you guys are doing uh thank love what you guys are doing uh thank love what you guys are doing uh thank you so much for all that you do as well you so much for all that you do as well you so much for all that you do as well thank you Alan and thanks Zach for thank you Alan and thanks Zach for thank you Alan and thanks Zach for sitting in for Mr Hamrock today and for sitting in for Mr Hamrock today and for sitting in for Mr Hamrock today and for those of you who've actually made it all those of you who've actually made it all those of you who've actually made it all the way to the end of this episode the way to the end of this episode the way to the end of this episode congratulations I wish I had a prize for congratulations I wish I had a prize for congratulations I wish I had a prize for you I don't the prize was just great you I don't the prize was just great you I don't the prize was just great content hopefully you found this to be content hopefully you found this to be content hopefully you found this to be very useful if your church has an online very useful if your church has an online very useful if your church has an online Pastor or someone who is interested in Pastor or someone who is interested in Pastor or someone who is interested in maybe developing a Ministry online for maybe developing a Ministry online for maybe developing a Ministry online for your church make sure that you share your church make sure that you share your church make sure that you share this episode with them and if you this episode with them and if you this episode with them and if you haven't yet subscribed wherever you haven't yet subscribed wherever you haven't yet subscribed wherever you listen to your favorite podcast make listen to your favorite podcast make listen to your favorite podcast make sure that you do that so you don't miss sure that you do that so you don't miss sure that you do that so you don't miss any future future episodes until the any future future episodes until the any future future episodes until the next time I'm Bart Blair thanks again next time I'm Bart Blair thanks again next time I'm Bart Blair thanks again for tuning in to the missional marketing for tuning in to the missional marketing for tuning in to the missional marketing podcast podcast podcast [Applause]