How Digital Media and a Global Pandemic are Shaking Up the Local Church | Phil Cooke | S2, Ep3

so for the record i'm not an either or so for the record i'm not an either or guy i believe it's a both and thing i guy i believe it's a both and thing i guy i believe it's a both and thing i think we need to have both tracks you think we need to have both tracks you think we need to have both tracks you know have a great amazing compelling know have a great amazing compelling know have a great amazing compelling service in the building and invite service in the building and invite service in the building and invite people and build that community but at people and build that community but at people and build that community but at the same time we need to have just as a the same time we need to have just as a the same time we need to have just as a compelling compelling compelling online experience hey there friends online experience hey there friends online experience hey there friends welcome to season two episode three of welcome to season two episode three of welcome to season two episode three of the missional marketing church growth the missional marketing church growth the missional marketing church growth interviews podcast bart blair and jason interviews podcast bart blair and jason interviews podcast bart blair and jason hamrock joining you here from hamrock joining you here from hamrock joining you here from frisco texas and frisco texas and frisco texas and somewhere in phoenix are you is your is somewhere in phoenix are you is your is somewhere in phoenix are you is your is your address phoenix proper your address phoenix proper your address phoenix proper one of those actually gilbert so okay one of those actually gilbert so okay one of those actually gilbert so okay but it's but it's but it's huge yeah i mean i could have said huge yeah i mean i could have said huge yeah i mean i could have said dallas but i said frisco because well i dallas but i said frisco because well i dallas but i said frisco because well i live in frisco and i i didn't think you live in frisco and i i didn't think you live in frisco and i i didn't think you lived in phoenix proper you've never lived in phoenix proper you've never lived in phoenix proper you've never invited me to your house but i'll be invited me to your house but i'll be invited me to your house but i'll be there someday um oh you're always there someday um oh you're always there someday um oh you're always invited to bart if you're if you're in invited to bart if you're if you're in invited to bart if you're if you're in the next come on bye okay all right yeah the next come on bye okay all right yeah the next come on bye okay all right yeah elizabeth your wife yeah just come on by elizabeth your wife yeah just come on by elizabeth your wife yeah just come on by yeah i nee i you know you re-tiled your yeah i nee i you know you re-tiled your yeah i nee i you know you re-tiled your whole house last year was it like this whole house last year was it like this whole house last year was it like this time last year you were like tearing out time last year you were like tearing out time last year you were like tearing out all the towel in your house right and all the towel in your house right and all the towel in your house right and you retailed your whole house yeah so i you retailed your whole house yeah so i you retailed your whole house yeah so i haven't had a chance to see all this haven't had a chance to see all this haven't had a chance to see all this beautiful tile i guess that's kind of a beautiful tile i guess that's kind of a beautiful tile i guess that's kind of a common thing when you live in a hot common thing when you live in a hot common thing when you live in a hot climate climate like phoenix people put climate climate like phoenix people put climate climate like phoenix people put like ceramic tile or porcelain tile or like ceramic tile or porcelain tile or like ceramic tile or porcelain tile or whatever on the floor it helps keep your whatever on the floor it helps keep your whatever on the floor it helps keep your house cool yeah house cool yeah house cool yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i have no idea why we're talking yeah i have no idea why we're talking yeah i have no idea why we're talking about that let's talk about our podcast about that let's talk about our podcast about that let's talk about our podcast hey who's our guest today man i am hey who's our guest today man i am hey who's our guest today man i am excited about this one okay phil cook is excited about this one okay phil cook is excited about this one okay phil cook is on the podcast today and and phil is an on the podcast today and and phil is an on the podcast today and and phil is an amazing guy i you know i i've read a lot amazing guy i you know i i've read a lot amazing guy i you know i i've read a lot of phil's books in fact i got one right

of phil's books in fact i got one right of phil's books in fact i got one right here brand branding faith but he's here brand branding faith but he's here brand branding faith but he's written uh one big thing he just came written uh one big thing he just came written uh one big thing he just came out with his latest book maximizing your out with his latest book maximizing your out with his latest book maximizing your influence uh but he's so much more than influence uh but he's so much more than influence uh but he's so much more than that he's a producer he's done all kinds that he's a producer he's done all kinds that he's a producer he's done all kinds of stuff bart can share a little bit of stuff bart can share a little bit of stuff bart can share a little bit about that but i tell you this about that but i tell you this about that but i tell you this conversation with phil he's just a conversation with phil he's just a conversation with phil he's just a genuinely great guy he's such a nice guy genuinely great guy he's such a nice guy genuinely great guy he's such a nice guy and we learned a ton from him we had to and we learned a ton from him we had to and we learned a ton from him we had to stop it because we could have kept going stop it because we could have kept going stop it because we could have kept going on and on and on with phil such a on and on and on with phil such a on and on and on with phil such a generous man so what else has he done generous man so what else has he done generous man so what else has he done that our audience needs to know well that our audience needs to know well that our audience needs to know well we could go on he actually uh he he we could go on he actually uh he he we could go on he actually uh he he actually offered to like hang out with actually offered to like hang out with actually offered to like hang out with me the next time he's in dallas and i am me the next time he's in dallas and i am me the next time he's in dallas and i am 100 percent gonna take him up on that 100 percent gonna take him up on that 100 percent gonna take him up on that because he's just an absolutely cool because he's just an absolutely cool because he's just an absolutely cool cool guy uh phil cook media group and cool guy uh phil cook media group and cool guy uh phil cook media group and his team have they produced content for his team have they produced content for his team have they produced content for um the bible museum in washington dc the um the bible museum in washington dc the um the bible museum in washington dc the american american american bible society jesus film project uh he's bible society jesus film project uh he's bible society jesus film project uh he's done work with dreamworks he's done work done work with dreamworks he's done work done work with dreamworks he's done work with disney like this guy when it comes with disney like this guy when it comes with disney like this guy when it comes to film work and production work he's to film work and production work he's to film work and production work he's legit he is the real deal but what's so legit he is the real deal but what's so legit he is the real deal but what's so cool about phil cook is that even though cool about phil cook is that even though cool about phil cook is that even though he's kind of got this hollywood aura and he's kind of got this hollywood aura and he's kind of got this hollywood aura and this hollywood community that he works this hollywood community that he works this hollywood community that he works in he's totally down to earth and he's in he's totally down to earth and he's in he's totally down to earth and he's totally passionate about the local totally passionate about the local totally passionate about the local church and helping uh church churches church and helping uh church churches church and helping uh church churches church communications professionals and church communications professionals and church communications professionals and church leaders maximize their influence church leaders maximize their influence church leaders maximize their influence in fact that's the name of his latest in fact that's the name of his latest in fact that's the name of his latest book maximize your influence and that is book maximize your influence and that is book maximize your influence and that is what we primarily discussed in our what we primarily discussed in our what we primarily discussed in our conversation with phil cook so phil conversation with phil cook so phil conversation with phil cook so phil thanks if you happen to listen to this

thanks if you happen to listen to this thanks if you happen to listen to this thanks for hanging out with us thanks thanks for hanging out with us thanks thanks for hanging out with us thanks for spending the time with us that you for spending the time with us that you for spending the time with us that you did if you are um listening to our did if you are um listening to our did if you are um listening to our podcast maybe the first time or maybe podcast maybe the first time or maybe podcast maybe the first time or maybe you haven't yet subscribed make sure you you haven't yet subscribed make sure you you haven't yet subscribed make sure you do that on whatever platform that you do that on whatever platform that you do that on whatever platform that you listen to our podcast on make sure that listen to our podcast on make sure that listen to our podcast on make sure that you subscribe so that you don't miss any you subscribe so that you don't miss any you subscribe so that you don't miss any episodes and if you haven't left us a episodes and if you haven't left us a episodes and if you haven't left us a rating or review please do that if you rating or review please do that if you rating or review please do that if you leave us like a really awesome review we leave us like a really awesome review we leave us like a really awesome review we might even we might even read it and might even we might even read it and might even we might even read it and share it with our audience just in case share it with our audience just in case share it with our audience just in case that might matter to you i hear other that might matter to you i hear other that might matter to you i hear other people doing that on their podcast we've people doing that on their podcast we've people doing that on their podcast we've never actually done it so i thought i'd never actually done it so i thought i'd never actually done it so i thought i'd throw that out there i might even you throw that out there i might even you throw that out there i might even you know what know what know what i might even if you leave us a really i might even if you leave us a really i might even if you leave us a really cool review i might get jason to send cool review i might get jason to send cool review i might get jason to send you a t-shirt i'm just saying you know a you a t-shirt i'm just saying you know a you a t-shirt i'm just saying you know a missional marketing t-shirt would that missional marketing t-shirt would that missional marketing t-shirt would that be cool no not the golf shirt the golf be cool no not the golf shirt the golf be cool no not the golf shirt the golf shirts are probably a little pricey for shirts are probably a little pricey for shirts are probably a little pricey for us oh we got some really cool t-shirts us oh we got some really cool t-shirts us oh we got some really cool t-shirts around here so yes because we're we're around here so yes because we're we're around here so yes because we're we're we're a low budget podcast so we can't we're a low budget podcast so we can't we're a low budget podcast so we can't send you really nice gifts but we can send you really nice gifts but we can send you really nice gifts but we can afford a t-shirt um but anyway all that afford a t-shirt um but anyway all that afford a t-shirt um but anyway all that being said uh thanks for tuning in uh being said uh thanks for tuning in uh being said uh thanks for tuning in uh thanks uh for your feedback we love the thanks uh for your feedback we love the thanks uh for your feedback we love the feedback that we're getting on the feedback that we're getting on the feedback that we're getting on the podcast and that you're finding uh what podcast and that you're finding uh what podcast and that you're finding uh what we're producing for you here useful and we're producing for you here useful and we're producing for you here useful and uh this rambling is not useful so i'm uh this rambling is not useful so i'm uh this rambling is not useful so i'm gonna cut it short and just say hey gonna cut it short and just say hey gonna cut it short and just say hey let's listen to this interview with phil let's listen to this interview with phil let's listen to this interview with phil cook cook cook well phil cook it is my pleasure to well phil cook it is my pleasure to well phil cook it is my pleasure to welcome you to the missional marketing welcome you to the missional marketing welcome you to the missional marketing church growth interviews podcast thanks church growth interviews podcast thanks church growth interviews podcast thanks so much for being our guest today hey so much for being our guest today hey so much for being our guest today hey i'm thrilled to be here i'm honored this i'm thrilled to be here i'm honored this i'm thrilled to be here i'm honored this is going to be fun i love talking to is going to be fun i love talking to is going to be fun i love talking to guys that are into media and guys that are into media and guys that are into media and communication stuff so this will be communication stuff so this will be communication stuff so this will be great great great well we're yeah we're delighted to have well we're yeah we're delighted to have well we're yeah we're delighted to have you you know uh most of our audience are you you know uh most of our audience are you you know uh most of our audience are people who are uh church leaders church people who are uh church leaders church people who are uh church leaders church communications professionals um you know

communications professionals um you know communications professionals um you know some in large churches some in very some in large churches some in very some in large churches some in very small churches small churches small churches long-time churches like moody in chicago long-time churches like moody in chicago long-time churches like moody in chicago and brand new church plants in cities and brand new church plants in cities and brand new church plants in cities all over the country i would imagine all over the country i would imagine all over the country i would imagine that many of them probably have heard of that many of them probably have heard of that many of them probably have heard of you maybe they don't know a ton about you maybe they don't know a ton about you maybe they don't know a ton about you why don't you spend a few minutes you why don't you spend a few minutes you why don't you spend a few minutes just sharing your story uh how you got just sharing your story uh how you got just sharing your story uh how you got into the stuff that you're doing today into the stuff that you're doing today into the stuff that you're doing today and actually explain a little bit about and actually explain a little bit about and actually explain a little bit about what you're doing today sure i'm a what you're doing today sure i'm a what you're doing today sure i'm a preacher's kid from charlotte north preacher's kid from charlotte north preacher's kid from charlotte north carolina my dad was a pastor my whole carolina my dad was a pastor my whole carolina my dad was a pastor my whole life i've worked behind the scenes in life i've worked behind the scenes in life i've worked behind the scenes in church church church since i was born i filled millions of since i was born i filled millions of since i was born i filled millions of communion cups i have printed thousands communion cups i have printed thousands communion cups i have printed thousands of bulletins i have i mowed the church of bulletins i have i mowed the church of bulletins i have i mowed the church cemetery for years um cemetery for years um cemetery for years um and when i went to college i didn't know and when i went to college i didn't know and when i went to college i didn't know what i wanted to do i was never felt what i wanted to do i was never felt what i wanted to do i was never felt called to preach um i knew everything called to preach um i knew everything called to preach um i knew everything about church and how it worked but i about church and how it worked but i about church and how it worked but i never felt called to preach so i i just never felt called to preach so i i just never felt called to preach so i i just was a i started college as a music major was a i started college as a music major was a i started college as a music major um because that's what you did back in um because that's what you did back in um because that's what you did back in those days if you were a preacher's kid those days if you were a preacher's kid those days if you were a preacher's kid you played the piano yeah and um but one you played the piano yeah and um but one you played the piano yeah and um but one thing i did is kind of a hobby me and thing i did is kind of a hobby me and thing i did is kind of a hobby me and three or four buddies in high school three or four buddies in high school three or four buddies in high school used to take my dad's super eight movie used to take my dad's super eight movie used to take my dad's super eight movie camera yep that's how old i am and we camera yep that's how old i am and we camera yep that's how old i am and we would go out and make little would go out and make little would go out and make little three-minute movies army movies mafia three-minute movies army movies mafia three-minute movies army movies mafia movies space movies and movies space movies and movies space movies and we just had a great time doing it we we just had a great time doing it we we just had a great time doing it we didn't know anything about it it never didn't know anything about it it never didn't know anything about it it never crossed your mind our mind that you crossed your mind our mind that you crossed your mind our mind that you could do this for a living but we just could do this for a living but we just could do this for a living but we just love doing it so when i went to college love doing it so when i went to college love doing it so when i went to college i thought well i'll take my dad's camera i thought well i'll take my dad's camera i thought well i'll take my dad's camera and i'll take my movies and maybe i'll and i'll take my movies and maybe i'll and i'll take my movies and maybe i'll find some guys in college i'm 1000 1000 find some guys in college i'm 1000 1000 find some guys in college i'm 1000 1000 miles away to college and i thought well miles away to college and i thought well miles away to college and i thought well maybe i'll find some guys that want to maybe i'll find some guys that want to maybe i'll find some guys that want to do that there and literally the first do that there and literally the first do that there and literally the first day i'm unpacking my suitcase and a

day i'm unpacking my suitcase and a day i'm unpacking my suitcase and a couple of my little films rolled out and couple of my little films rolled out and couple of my little films rolled out and a guy across the hall said hey i'm a guy across the hall said hey i'm a guy across the hall said hey i'm taking a film class i can show you how taking a film class i can show you how taking a film class i can show you how to edit those things i didn't i didn't to edit those things i didn't i didn't to edit those things i didn't i didn't even know you could cut film back in even know you could cut film back in even know you could cut film back in those days and so he took me down there those days and so he took me down there those days and so he took me down there and to make a long story story short we and to make a long story story short we and to make a long story story short we worked late into the night working on worked late into the night working on worked late into the night working on one of my little movies and one of my little movies and one of my little movies and i discovered the professor was there he i discovered the professor was there he i discovered the professor was there he was there working on a project of his was there working on a project of his was there working on a project of his own and um as he was leaving late that own and um as he was leaving late that own and um as he was leaving late that night he walked by our little edit table night he walked by our little edit table night he walked by our little edit table and introduced himself and said look and introduced himself and said look and introduced himself and said look i've been watching your little film out i've been watching your little film out i've been watching your little film out of the corner of my eye and he said i've of the corner of my eye and he said i've of the corner of my eye and he said i've got students that have been taken for got students that have been taken for got students that have been taken for two three years of classes and they two three years of classes and they two three years of classes and they don't do this well would you mind if i don't do this well would you mind if i don't do this well would you mind if i showed your film in my class tomorrow so showed your film in my class tomorrow so showed your film in my class tomorrow so i said yeah and if i could sit on the i said yeah and if i could sit on the i said yeah and if i could sit on the back row so the next day i sat on the back row so the next day i sat on the back row so the next day i sat on the back row he showed my little movie and back row he showed my little movie and back row he showed my little movie and trust me it was nothing to scream about trust me it was nothing to scream about trust me it was nothing to scream about but when it was over but when it was over but when it was over the class started talking about it they the class started talking about it they the class started talking about it they started discussing it and i'll tell you started discussing it and i'll tell you started discussing it and i'll tell you something something something a a a idea hit me it was like a revelation idea hit me it was like a revelation idea hit me it was like a revelation like i've never had before or since this like i've never had before or since this like i've never had before or since this crystal clear moment of revelation that crystal clear moment of revelation that crystal clear moment of revelation that if i can do something with a camera that if i can do something with a camera that if i can do something with a camera that makes people talk like this this is what makes people talk like this this is what makes people talk like this this is what i'm supposed to do with my life and i i'm supposed to do with my life and i i'm supposed to do with my life and i literally changed my major that day to literally changed my major that day to literally changed my major that day to film tv communications and i've never film tv communications and i've never film tv communications and i've never looked back and although i've owned looked back and although i've owned looked back and although i've owned commercial companies we've done super commercial companies we've done super commercial companies we've done super bowl commercials we've done all kind of bowl commercials we've done all kind of bowl commercials we've done all kind of secular projects over the years i've secular projects over the years i've secular projects over the years i've always just gravitated toward the church always just gravitated toward the church always just gravitated toward the church because i've always felt the church because i've always felt the church because i've always felt the church needed to understand how to tell their needed to understand how to tell their needed to understand how to tell their story more effectively using media and story more effectively using media and story more effectively using media and so over the years we've worked with most so over the years we've worked with most so over the years we've worked with most major ministry organizations ton of major ministry organizations ton of major ministry organizations ton of effective large churches and small

effective large churches and small effective large churches and small churches as well and it's just churches as well and it's just churches as well and it's just interesting to see how god has used that interesting to see how god has used that interesting to see how god has used that media's come a long way in my long media's come a long way in my long media's come a long way in my long career and uh i'm just thrilled to be a career and uh i'm just thrilled to be a career and uh i'm just thrilled to be a part of it so are you are you doing more part of it so are you are you doing more part of it so are you are you doing more storytelling when you step into these storytelling when you step into these storytelling when you step into these churches and help them out or what's the churches and help them out or what's the churches and help them out or what's the yeah usually when pastors will call us yeah usually when pastors will call us yeah usually when pastors will call us they're fr they're frustrated about they're fr they're frustrated about they're fr they're frustrated about something as you guys probably know something as you guys probably know something as you guys probably know they're frustrated about their their they're frustrated about their their they're frustrated about their their media tele we do a lot of broadcast media tele we do a lot of broadcast media tele we do a lot of broadcast television with clients we do a lot of television with clients we do a lot of television with clients we do a lot of short videos with clients and other short videos with clients and other short videos with clients and other things but you know i've gotten into things but you know i've gotten into things but you know i've gotten into this role where i'm the guy that kind of this role where i'm the guy that kind of this role where i'm the guy that kind of the hub that brings everybody to the the hub that brings everybody to the the hub that brings everybody to the table the the website people the social table the the website people the social table the the website people the social media people the video people the media people the video people the media people the video people the broadcast tv people if that's part of it broadcast tv people if that's part of it broadcast tv people if that's part of it and i just kind of manage the process of and i just kind of manage the process of and i just kind of manage the process of how it goes i am you know i come from how it goes i am you know i come from how it goes i am you know i come from the creative side of the fence i'm a the creative side of the fence i'm a the creative side of the fence i'm a writer and i've been producing forever writer and i've been producing forever writer and i've been producing forever and directing a lot of television but um and directing a lot of television but um and directing a lot of television but um i'm just have kind of grown into a role i'm just have kind of grown into a role i'm just have kind of grown into a role where i kind of become the hub i just where i kind of become the hub i just where i kind of become the hub i just you know i go into a lot of play i go to you know i go into a lot of play i go to you know i go into a lot of play i go to a lot of churches a lot of churches a lot of churches where nobody talks to each other the web where nobody talks to each other the web where nobody talks to each other the web guy is not talking to the social media guy is not talking to the social media guy is not talking to the social media people who aren't talking to the video people who aren't talking to the video people who aren't talking to the video guy who's not talking to the pastor and guy who's not talking to the pastor and guy who's not talking to the pastor and they're all telling different stories they're all telling different stories they're all telling different stories and i've discovered the key is we've got and i've discovered the key is we've got and i've discovered the key is we've got to get them all together on the same to get them all together on the same to get them all together on the same page reflecting the same vision the same page reflecting the same vision the same page reflecting the same vision the same message the same story and when that message the same story and when that message the same story and when that happens incredible things suddenly start happens incredible things suddenly start happens incredible things suddenly start start beginning start beginning start beginning you know you know you know so you've written a lot of books so i so you've written a lot of books so i so you've written a lot of books so i mean if you if you gotta so you gotta mean if you if you gotta so you gotta mean if you if you gotta so you gotta google phil google phil google phil and phil cook with an e on the end right and phil cook with an e on the end right and phil cook with an e on the end right so just so just so just thank you you're going to see all of the

thank you you're going to see all of the thank you you're going to see all of the books you've read you've written a lot books you've read you've written a lot books you've read you've written a lot of great books that have that speak into of great books that have that speak into of great books that have that speak into leadership uh structure all these leadership uh structure all these leadership uh structure all these different things that you're talking different things that you're talking different things that you're talking about in your books where did you gain about in your books where did you gain about in your books where did you gain all that if you're a filmmaker like is all that if you're a filmmaker like is all that if you're a filmmaker like is it just from your years of experience of it just from your years of experience of it just from your years of experience of working in a church a lot of it's working in a church a lot of it's working in a church a lot of it's hitting my head against the wall working hitting my head against the wall working hitting my head against the wall working with churches and ministries over the with churches and ministries over the with churches and ministries over the years i mean literally i started a long years i mean literally i started a long years i mean literally i started a long long time ago i started actually like to long time ago i started actually like to long time ago i started actually like to give you a little secret i started give you a little secret i started give you a little secret i started producing program directing programs for producing program directing programs for producing program directing programs for oral roberts back in the days when oral roberts back in the days when oral roberts back in the days when you'll remember oral billy fulton sheen you'll remember oral billy fulton sheen you'll remember oral billy fulton sheen on the catholic side they were all doing on the catholic side they were all doing on the catholic side they were all doing national television programs and orals national television programs and orals national television programs and orals was the most watched program in america was the most watched program in america was the most watched program in america at the time so um when i was a student at the time so um when i was a student at the time so um when i was a student my freshman year i actually went to oral my freshman year i actually went to oral my freshman year i actually went to oral roberts university and my freshman year roberts university and my freshman year roberts university and my freshman year oral was built a massive studio complex oral was built a massive studio complex oral was built a massive studio complex on the campus at oru on the campus at oru on the campus at oru brought in head of heads of departments brought in head of heads of departments brought in head of heads of departments from nbc and other places in hollywood from nbc and other places in hollywood from nbc and other places in hollywood the director the art director the the director the art director the the director the art director the lighting director lighting director lighting director and i got a i got a job on the crew as a and i got a i got a job on the crew as a and i got a i got a job on the crew as a grip just moving set pieces around and grip just moving set pieces around and grip just moving set pieces around and work my way up to the lighting crew then work my way up to the lighting crew then work my way up to the lighting crew then became a camera operator eventually the became a camera operator eventually the became a camera operator eventually the director i i eventually got a chance to director i i eventually got a chance to director i i eventually got a chance to be the assistant director of the program be the assistant director of the program be the assistant director of the program and then when the director left they and then when the director left they and then when the director left they moved me up into the director's position moved me up into the director's position moved me up into the director's position so um i go all the way back there and so so um i go all the way back there and so so um i go all the way back there and so since that time i've worked with just uh since that time i've worked with just uh since that time i've worked with just uh more ministries and churches and i cared more ministries and churches and i cared more ministries and churches and i cared to admit and seen a lot of changes i to admit and seen a lot of changes i to admit and seen a lot of changes i mean when you think about it a lot of mean when you think about it a lot of mean when you think about it a lot of changes have happened in media during changes have happened in media during changes have happened in media during that time that time that time so a lot of it just comes out from uh so a lot of it just comes out from uh so a lot of it just comes out from uh the agony of working with an awful lot

the agony of working with an awful lot the agony of working with an awful lot of people over the years of people over the years of people over the years it's beautiful and it's a mess at the it's beautiful and it's a mess at the it's beautiful and it's a mess at the same time it is it's yes that's exactly same time it is it's yes that's exactly same time it is it's yes that's exactly right right right so phil you you obviously you work so phil you you obviously you work so phil you you obviously you work hands-on with a lot of churches you've hands-on with a lot of churches you've hands-on with a lot of churches you've got your hands in a lot of different got your hands in a lot of different got your hands in a lot of different things um and we could we could take things um and we could we could take things um and we could we could take this conversation a lot of different this conversation a lot of different this conversation a lot of different directions um directions um directions um obviously you know one of one of the obviously you know one of one of the obviously you know one of one of the things that you you help a lot of church things that you you help a lot of church things that you you help a lot of church with churches with is is communications with churches with is is communications with churches with is is communications um with their production with their um with their production with their um with their production with their media production and a year and a half media production and a year and a half media production and a year and a half ago uh ago uh ago uh you know the world went into covet mode you know the world went into covet mode you know the world went into covet mode and churches had to start making a lot and churches had to start making a lot and churches had to start making a lot of significant changes and pivots of significant changes and pivots of significant changes and pivots additions subtractions you name it um additions subtractions you name it um additions subtractions you name it um why don't you share a little bit with us why don't you share a little bit with us why don't you share a little bit with us about some of the stuff that you were about some of the stuff that you were about some of the stuff that you were doing hands-on to help churches in that doing hands-on to help churches in that doing hands-on to help churches in that transition and then i'd like for you to transition and then i'd like for you to transition and then i'd like for you to also speak into maybe how some of the also speak into maybe how some of the also speak into maybe how some of the things that you've seen change in the things that you've seen change in the things that you've seen change in the church over the course of the last year church over the course of the last year church over the course of the last year and a half might be permanent change and a half might be permanent change and a half might be permanent change that's a great question um that's a great question um that's a great question um you know it's funny we've been working you know it's funny we've been working you know it's funny we've been working with live streaming with churches for with live streaming with churches for with live streaming with churches for many many years long before covet ever many many years long before covet ever many many years long before covet ever you know anybody knew ever ever knew you know anybody knew ever ever knew you know anybody knew ever ever knew about covid and in fact we've had about covid and in fact we've had about covid and in fact we've had multiple churches that we were working multiple churches that we were working multiple churches that we were working with years ago that were making as much with years ago that were making as much with years ago that were making as much as a third of their total financial as a third of their total financial as a third of their total financial income just from their live stream income just from their live stream income just from their live stream audience uh we we've we helped them audience uh we we've we helped them audience uh we we've we helped them tweak their their live stream to where tweak their their live stream to where tweak their their live stream to where the audience really felt engaged the the audience really felt engaged the the audience really felt engaged the pastor respected the audience he talked pastor respected the audience he talked pastor respected the audience he talked to them we've even had a numerous to them we've even had a numerous to them we've even had a numerous churches where in the middle of the churches where in the middle of the churches where in the middle of the praise and worship the pastor will walk praise and worship the pastor will walk praise and worship the pastor will walk off to the side of the stage look at a off to the side of the stage look at a off to the side of the stage look at a camera and welcome the audience and and

camera and welcome the audience and and camera and welcome the audience and and tell them how grateful he is that tell them how grateful he is that tell them how grateful he is that they're part of this and audience you they're part of this and audience you they're part of this and audience you know the the people watching feel like know the the people watching feel like know the the people watching feel like hey this church respects me they they hey this church respects me they they hey this church respects me they they value me and they want to be a part of value me and they want to be a part of value me and they want to be a part of that congregation so we had some great that congregation so we had some great that congregation so we had some great success with live streaming long before success with live streaming long before success with live streaming long before covid but when covid came along and the covid but when covid came along and the covid but when covid came along and the churches started getting locked down i churches started getting locked down i churches started getting locked down i frankly thought we'd be out of business frankly thought we'd be out of business frankly thought we'd be out of business but suddenly we got flooded with calls but suddenly we got flooded with calls but suddenly we got flooded with calls from pastors who had no clue what they from pastors who had no clue what they from pastors who had no clue what they were doing or no idea were doing or no idea were doing or no idea how to live stream or the the ones that how to live stream or the the ones that how to live stream or the the ones that were live streaming how do they take it were live streaming how do they take it were live streaming how do they take it to the next level i i had actually had to the next level i i had actually had to the next level i i had actually had some pastors before the shutdown tell me some pastors before the shutdown tell me some pastors before the shutdown tell me you know phil i don't mind live you know phil i don't mind live you know phil i don't mind live streaming my service but that's not real streaming my service but that's not real streaming my service but that's not real ministry let me tell you when that ministry let me tell you when that ministry let me tell you when that lockdown happened they completely lockdown happened they completely lockdown happened they completely changed their team changed their team changed their team and uh so it didn't we just jumped right and uh so it didn't we just jumped right and uh so it didn't we just jumped right in and it was really interesting i in and it was really interesting i in and it was really interesting i started by watching every sunday during started by watching every sunday during started by watching every sunday during the lockdown i would watch 10 12 maybe the lockdown i would watch 10 12 maybe the lockdown i would watch 10 12 maybe 15 live streams i was just one after 15 live streams i was just one after 15 live streams i was just one after another after another and it was just another after another and it was just another after another and it was just interesting to see how different interesting to see how different interesting to see how different churches were doing it which ones were churches were doing it which ones were churches were doing it which ones were doing it well and which weren't and um doing it well and which weren't and um doing it well and which weren't and um out of that experience and working with out of that experience and working with out of that experience and working with the churches that we work with in fact the churches that we work with in fact the churches that we work with in fact i'll tell you we've we had three i'll tell you we've we had three i'll tell you we've we had three churches during the lockdown that got churches during the lockdown that got churches during the lockdown that got such a great response from their live such a great response from their live such a great response from their live stream they decided to go on broadcast stream they decided to go on broadcast stream they decided to go on broadcast television in their city and so television in their city and so television in their city and so it's just interesting what's come out of it's just interesting what's come out of it's just interesting what's come out of this whole coven thing and so i wrote this whole coven thing and so i wrote this whole coven thing and so i wrote the book maximize your influence out of the book maximize your influence out of the book maximize your influence out of that experience because i started that experience because i started that experience because i started realizing as you well know they don't realizing as you well know they don't realizing as you well know they don't teach pastors communication and media teach pastors communication and media teach pastors communication and media stuff in bible college or seminary and stuff in bible college or seminary and stuff in bible college or seminary and somebody needs to be out there so i

somebody needs to be out there so i somebody needs to be out there so i really wanted to create a reference book really wanted to create a reference book really wanted to create a reference book that every pastor in america could have that every pastor in america could have that every pastor in america could have on his desk that when these issues came on his desk that when these issues came on his desk that when these issues came up and they're not about how to build a up and they're not about how to build a up and they're not about how to build a website or how to set up a social media website or how to set up a social media website or how to set up a social media platform they're more about how to speak platform they're more about how to speak platform they're more about how to speak that language how to talk to your that language how to talk to your that language how to talk to your communications team and really why we communications team and really why we communications team and really why we why we're doing this what's the point of why we're doing this what's the point of why we're doing this what's the point of this so many churches i go into i'm sure this so many churches i go into i'm sure this so many churches i go into i'm sure you've seen this they're they're doing you've seen this they're they're doing you've seen this they're they're doing everything they just don't really have a everything they just don't really have a everything they just don't really have a good idea of why they're doing it or good idea of why they're doing it or good idea of why they're doing it or what the strategy is behind it so that's what the strategy is behind it so that's what the strategy is behind it so that's a big part of why i wrote the book yeah a big part of why i wrote the book yeah a big part of why i wrote the book yeah how to do it well either yeah that's how to do it well either yeah that's how to do it well either yeah that's true that's true i wanna i wanna talk true that's true i wanna i wanna talk true that's true i wanna i wanna talk about the book in just a moment but i i about the book in just a moment but i i about the book in just a moment but i i actually want to get you to i i want to actually want to get you to i i want to actually want to get you to i i want to there's a thread that i want to pull on there's a thread that i want to pull on there's a thread that i want to pull on something that you said just a minute something that you said just a minute something that you said just a minute ago and and you were sharing some of the ago and and you were sharing some of the ago and and you were sharing some of the experience of of of how some churches uh experience of of of how some churches uh experience of of of how some churches uh had built such an on a a strong online had built such an on a a strong online had built such an on a a strong online presence or a broadcast presence presence or a broadcast presence presence or a broadcast presence that a significant amount of their that a significant amount of their that a significant amount of their donation and revenue was coming from donation and revenue was coming from donation and revenue was coming from their online audience their online audience their online audience because they were tailoring their because they were tailoring their because they were tailoring their experience to meet the needs of both the experience to meet the needs of both the experience to meet the needs of both the people in the room and the people online people in the room and the people online people in the room and the people online can you speak can you speak for a minute can you speak can you speak for a minute can you speak can you speak for a minute to just the importance that churches to just the importance that churches to just the importance that churches need to need to need to place place place on creating an experience for the online on creating an experience for the online on creating an experience for the online audience and not just the fly on the audience and not just the fly on the audience and not just the fly on the wall experience for people who are wall experience for people who are wall experience for people who are watching online yeah you know watching online yeah you know watching online yeah you know live streaming is so much more than live streaming is so much more than live streaming is so much more than hanging a little camera from the edge of hanging a little camera from the edge of hanging a little camera from the edge of the balcony um the balcony um the balcony um they're just so many pastors that don't they're just so many pastors that don't they're just so many pastors that don't take that seriously and yet there are

take that seriously and yet there are take that seriously and yet there are people out there watching um the stories people out there watching um the stories people out there watching um the stories we've the success stories we've heard we've the success stories we've heard we've the success stories we've heard during the lockdown have absolutely been during the lockdown have absolutely been during the lockdown have absolutely been amazing we we worked with one church an amazing we we worked with one church an amazing we we worked with one church an african-american church in the south african-american church in the south african-american church in the south 900 members the pastor called me about 900 members the pastor called me about 900 members the pastor called me about six months into the lockdown and said six months into the lockdown and said six months into the lockdown and said you know you know you know before i mean he really embraced this before i mean he really embraced this before i mean he really embraced this and he called me and said before the and he called me and said before the and he called me and said before the lockdown he said we had 28 subscribers lockdown he said we had 28 subscribers lockdown he said we had 28 subscribers to our youtube channel he said now we to our youtube channel he said now we to our youtube channel he said now we have 23 000. he said we have 900 church have 23 000. he said we have 900 church have 23 000. he said we have 900 church members but every sunday members but every sunday members but every sunday 30 to 40 000 people are watching our 30 to 40 000 people are watching our 30 to 40 000 people are watching our live stream and he said live stream and he said live stream and he said up to now he said one and a half million up to now he said one and a half million up to now he said one and a half million people have seen my easter message on people have seen my easter message on people have seen my easter message on youtube he said i'm a pastor so i feel youtube he said i'm a pastor so i feel youtube he said i'm a pastor so i feel guilty saying this but i have no real guilty saying this but i have no real guilty saying this but i have no real desire to go back to our church building desire to go back to our church building desire to go back to our church building he said we're making more of an impact he said we're making more of an impact he said we're making more of an impact online than we've ever made in the online than we've ever made in the online than we've ever made in the history of our church so for the record history of our church so for the record history of our church so for the record i'm not an either or guy i believe it's i'm not an either or guy i believe it's i'm not an either or guy i believe it's a both and thing i think we need to have a both and thing i think we need to have a both and thing i think we need to have both tracks you know have a great both tracks you know have a great both tracks you know have a great amazing compelling service in the amazing compelling service in the amazing compelling service in the building and invite people and build building and invite people and build building and invite people and build that community but at the same time we that community but at the same time we that community but at the same time we need to have just as a compelling need to have just as a compelling need to have just as a compelling online experience craig rochelle at life online experience craig rochelle at life online experience craig rochelle at life church calls it a hybrid and i totally church calls it a hybrid and i totally church calls it a hybrid and i totally agree he wants the live experience on agree he wants the live experience on agree he wants the live experience on the live online experience to be just as the live online experience to be just as the live online experience to be just as compelling as being in the service and i compelling as being in the service and i compelling as being in the service and i i sometimes think of sports you know i sometimes think of sports you know i sometimes think of sports you know football games i'm a big college football games i'm a big college football games i'm a big college football fan and when you go to a football fan and when you go to a football fan and when you go to a stadium to see the game live that's a stadium to see the game live that's a stadium to see the game live that's a thrilling thing and it's wonderful and thrilling thing and it's wonderful and thrilling thing and it's wonderful and it's a you have a great time however it's a you have a great time however it's a you have a great time however there are things when you're at home there are things when you're at home there are things when you're at home watching it on tv you get to see even watching it on tv you get to see even watching it on tv you get to see even more stuff you get to see replays you more stuff you get to see replays you more stuff you get to see replays you get to see in-depth interviews you get get to see in-depth interviews you get get to see in-depth interviews you get to see backgrounds on different players

to see backgrounds on different players to see backgrounds on different players so both experiences need to be so both experiences need to be so both experiences need to be absolutely maxed out to make it absolutely maxed out to make it absolutely maxed out to make it effective and for the record i'll tell effective and for the record i'll tell effective and for the record i'll tell you in my experience i'm i'm believing you in my experience i'm i'm believing you in my experience i'm i'm believing that that that we'll have a significant number of we'll have a significant number of we'll have a significant number of people that will probably cut back in people that will probably cut back in people that will probably cut back in person worship one sunday a month maybe person worship one sunday a month maybe person worship one sunday a month maybe two sundays a month and stay at home and two sundays a month and stay at home and two sundays a month and stay at home and watch i've i've had a lot of pastors watch i've i've had a lot of pastors watch i've i've had a lot of pastors tell me phil i spent almost two years tell me phil i spent almost two years tell me phil i spent almost two years telling people how awesome online telling people how awesome online telling people how awesome online worship is how in the world am i ever worship is how in the world am i ever worship is how in the world am i ever going to get them back in the church um going to get them back in the church um going to get them back in the church um my first response is if that's all that my first response is if that's all that my first response is if that's all that gets them in you you've got bigger gets them in you you've got bigger gets them in you you've got bigger problems if they just watch stuff then problems if they just watch stuff then problems if they just watch stuff then they're you got bigger problems than they're you got bigger problems than they're you got bigger problems than that but the second thing is you need to that but the second thing is you need to that but the second thing is you need to make that online experience uh make that online experience uh make that online experience uh compelling in fact this is not the time compelling in fact this is not the time compelling in fact this is not the time for for what it's worth this is not the for for what it's worth this is not the for for what it's worth this is not the time to take your foot off the gas when time to take your foot off the gas when time to take your foot off the gas when it comes to your live stream i think it comes to your live stream i think it comes to your live stream i think it's going to be more important than it's going to be more important than it's going to be more important than ever as we go into the future yeah it's ever as we go into the future yeah it's ever as we go into the future yeah it's really important that you say that really important that you say that really important that you say that because i because i because i you know be before covet the sacred cow you know be before covet the sacred cow you know be before covet the sacred cow was getting them into the room and yeah was getting them into the room and yeah was getting them into the room and yeah rightfully so it's like your biggest rightfully so it's like your biggest rightfully so it's like your biggest giving you know it all happens right giving you know it all happens right giving you know it all happens right there there there covet happens now they're online and it covet happens now they're online and it covet happens now they're online and it is interesting to hear churches go yeah is interesting to hear churches go yeah is interesting to hear churches go yeah we're really cutting back on the online we're really cutting back on the online we're really cutting back on the online because we can get back in person yeah because we can get back in person yeah because we can get back in person yeah why are you why are you lifting that why are you why are you lifting that why are you why are you lifting that sacred cow back up like sacred cow back up like sacred cow back up like come on they need to tune in and talk to come on they need to tune in and talk to come on they need to tune in and talk to you because you because you because it's uh like what you were saying there it's uh like what you were saying there it's uh like what you were saying there and the the amount of like a small and the the amount of like a small and the the amount of like a small church yeah church yeah church yeah but t you know preaching the gospel and but t you know preaching the gospel and but t you know preaching the gospel and using media to convey a message and it's using media to convey a message and it's using media to convey a message and it's exploding well you know for the record exploding well you know for the record exploding well you know for the record let me just say that when it comes to let me just say that when it comes to let me just say that when it comes to small churches um don't think you can't

small churches um don't think you can't small churches um don't think you can't do this because you'll have a 10 man do this because you'll have a 10 man do this because you'll have a 10 man communication team or five cameras or communication team or five cameras or communication team or five cameras or more more more everybody today has a studio in their everybody today has a studio in their everybody today has a studio in their pocket i mean literally in their pocket pocket i mean literally in their pocket pocket i mean literally in their pocket there are two feature film festivals in there are two feature film festivals in there are two feature film festivals in america now for movies for feature films america now for movies for feature films america now for movies for feature films shot on iphones in fact i have a friend shot on iphones in fact i have a friend shot on iphones in fact i have a friend who's a a camera operator she's a who's a a camera operator she's a who's a a camera operator she's a director of photography and she's built director of photography and she's built director of photography and she's built her whole business around filming all of her whole business around filming all of her whole business around filming all of her projects on an iphone she's got this her projects on an iphone she's got this her projects on an iphone she's got this amazing rig that she uses and slaps the amazing rig that she uses and slaps the amazing rig that she uses and slaps the iphone in there and she shoots on that iphone in there and she shoots on that iphone in there and she shoots on that so the truth is so the truth is so the truth is you have no excuse anymore there's no you have no excuse anymore there's no you have no excuse anymore there's no reason even with no budget just pull reason even with no budget just pull reason even with no budget just pull your phone out and you can do some your phone out and you can do some your phone out and you can do some really remarkable things really remarkable things really remarkable things i want to take a moment to thank you for i want to take a moment to thank you for i want to take a moment to thank you for tuning in to the missional marketing tuning in to the missional marketing tuning in to the missional marketing podcast it's always our goal to help you podcast it's always our goal to help you podcast it's always our goal to help you as a church leader leverage your as a church leader leverage your as a church leader leverage your communications and digital media communications and digital media communications and digital media resources to reach more people for jesus resources to reach more people for jesus resources to reach more people for jesus one of the ways that we help churches do one of the ways that we help churches do one of the ways that we help churches do that is through creating social media that is through creating social media that is through creating social media content from your sunday sermon videos content from your sunday sermon videos content from your sunday sermon videos specifically what we can do for you is specifically what we can do for you is specifically what we can do for you is to create short sermon snippets from 30 to create short sermon snippets from 30 to create short sermon snippets from 30 seconds long to five minutes long seconds long to five minutes long seconds long to five minutes long capturing those mic drop moments that capturing those mic drop moments that capturing those mic drop moments that you really want people to remember we you really want people to remember we you really want people to remember we edit the videos add captions add your edit the videos add captions add your edit the videos add captions add your church branding and then you or we post church branding and then you or we post church branding and then you or we post them to your social media channels them to your social media channels them to your social media channels as a pastor i always love to see my as a pastor i always love to see my as a pastor i always love to see my sermon content live on beyond the sermon content live on beyond the sermon content live on beyond the sundays and i know that's what you value sundays and i know that's what you value sundays and i know that's what you value for your sermons too for your sermons too for your sermons too we offer this service as a monthly we offer this service as a monthly we offer this service as a monthly subscription but we've got a six week subscription but we've got a six week subscription but we've got a six week trial that gives you a chance to see how trial that gives you a chance to see how trial that gives you a chance to see how it works if you'd like more information it works if you'd like more information it works if you'd like more information just shoot me an email at beblair

just shoot me an email at beblair just shoot me an email at beblair missionalmarketing.com i'd be glad to missionalmarketing.com i'd be glad to missionalmarketing.com i'd be glad to meet with you explain the process and meet with you explain the process and meet with you explain the process and answer any questions that you have once answer any questions that you have once answer any questions that you have once again thanks for tuning in to our again thanks for tuning in to our again thanks for tuning in to our podcast let's get back to the interview podcast let's get back to the interview podcast let's get back to the interview i i will i will testify as a pastor i i will i will testify as a pastor i i will i will testify as a pastor myself i i have to say you know there's myself i i have to say you know there's myself i i have to say you know there's really nothing for me that can replace really nothing for me that can replace really nothing for me that can replace or replicate the incarnational or replicate the incarnational or replicate the incarnational experience of the church body being experience of the church body being experience of the church body being together but i will speak from together but i will speak from together but i will speak from from firsthand that you know from firsthand that you know from firsthand that you know as a pastor even before we were you know as a pastor even before we were you know as a pastor even before we were you know really able to pull out all the stops on really able to pull out all the stops on really able to pull out all the stops on a church online type of experience yeah a church online type of experience yeah a church online type of experience yeah between my 12 year old son operating a between my 12 year old son operating a between my 12 year old son operating a camera and my son-in-law who's going to camera and my son-in-law who's going to camera and my son-in-law who's going to be editing this podcast be editing this podcast be editing this podcast the two of them the two of them the two of them we were posting content online which led we were posting content online which led we were posting content online which led to people finding our content online to people finding our content online to people finding our content online engaging in new relationship and engaging in new relationship and engaging in new relationship and actually having incarnational connection actually having incarnational connection actually having incarnational connection at some point it wasn't overnight in one at some point it wasn't overnight in one at some point it wasn't overnight in one case and i tell this story over and over case and i tell this story over and over case and i tell this story over and over again so i won't tell the story now but again so i won't tell the story now but again so i won't tell the story now but it was a full year i had a couple tell it was a full year i had a couple tell it was a full year i had a couple tell me they'd been watching online before me they'd been watching online before me they'd been watching online before they ever took the chance of stepping they ever took the chance of stepping they ever took the chance of stepping into the space yeah where we were into the space yeah where we were into the space yeah where we were meeting in person but once they did it meeting in person but once they did it meeting in person but once they did it was a life-changing experience for them was a life-changing experience for them was a life-changing experience for them and that life change started not the and that life change started not the and that life change started not the minute they walked in the door but when minute they walked in the door but when minute they walked in the door but when they discovered our teaching online and they discovered our teaching online and they discovered our teaching online and began to engage with us online so began to engage with us online so began to engage with us online so you're right i think it's it's part of you're right i think it's it's part of you're right i think it's it's part of it's just part of what we have to see as it's just part of what we have to see as it's just part of what we have to see as a holistic ministry effort now it it

a holistic ministry effort now it it a holistic ministry effort now it it can't all be in person it can't all be can't all be in person it can't all be can't all be in person it can't all be in line we have to figure out how to in line we have to figure out how to in line we have to figure out how to make those two things work together uh make those two things work together uh make those two things work together uh for the sake of the kingdom and for for the sake of the kingdom and for for the sake of the kingdom and for people who are far from god that's people who are far from god that's people who are far from god that's really good you know one of the most really good you know one of the most really good you know one of the most exciting things i'm seeing that kind of exciting things i'm seeing that kind of exciting things i'm seeing that kind of gets my blood pumping is the number of gets my blood pumping is the number of gets my blood pumping is the number of pastors who are saying you know this you pastors who are saying you know this you pastors who are saying you know this you know i have i i was telling this story know i have i i was telling this story know i have i i was telling this story recently that i have a friend who was a recently that i have a friend who was a recently that i have a friend who was a baseball player he got hit in the head baseball player he got hit in the head baseball player he got hit in the head with a line drive and everybody panicked with a line drive and everybody panicked with a line drive and everybody panicked and um he it knocked him out and they and um he it knocked him out and they and um he it knocked him out and they rushed him to the hospital and they did rushed him to the hospital and they did rushed him to the hospital and they did a cat scan and they they did all the a cat scan and they they did all the a cat scan and they they did all the procedures and stuff and realized you procedures and stuff and realized you procedures and stuff and realized you know eventually he came to and he was know eventually he came to and he was know eventually he came to and he was okay and there was no problem from that okay and there was no problem from that okay and there was no problem from that basket that baseball hit however the cat basket that baseball hit however the cat basket that baseball hit however the cat scan discovered he had a tiny tumor deep scan discovered he had a tiny tumor deep scan discovered he had a tiny tumor deep into his brain and the doctor said into his brain and the doctor said into his brain and the doctor said they found it early only because the they found it early only because the they found it early only because the baseball hit and he did the cat scan baseball hit and he did the cat scan baseball hit and he did the cat scan they found it early enough that they they found it early enough that they they found it early enough that they could take it out and the doctor said could take it out and the doctor said could take it out and the doctor said any later it would have grown to a place any later it would have grown to a place any later it would have grown to a place and where it was located they could have and where it was located they could have and where it was located they could have never taken it out and it would have never taken it out and it would have never taken it out and it would have killed him and um i often think covet is killed him and um i often think covet is killed him and um i often think covet is that baseball just slamming right into that baseball just slamming right into that baseball just slamming right into our head here um because it's showing us our head here um because it's showing us our head here um because it's showing us new ways of doing things it's shaking us new ways of doing things it's shaking us new ways of doing things it's shaking us up and making us look at things up and making us look at things up and making us look at things differently i've had so many pastors differently i've had so many pastors differently i've had so many pastors tell me you know now that i've started tell me you know now that i've started tell me you know now that i've started live streaming i realize we've been live streaming i realize we've been live streaming i realize we've been doing church the same way for two or doing church the same way for two or doing church the same way for two or three hundred years i mean we may have three hundred years i mean we may have three hundred years i mean we may have switched to contemporary music but our switched to contemporary music but our switched to contemporary music but our order of service is pretty much the same order of service is pretty much the same order of service is pretty much the same we're still in a sanctuary we're doing we're still in a sanctuary we're doing we're still in a sanctuary we're doing this right most of the things we do is this right most of the things we do is this right most of the things we do is almost identical in our lifetime and far almost identical in our lifetime and far almost identical in our lifetime and far beyond and so i'm seeing pastors for beyond and so i'm seeing pastors for beyond and so i'm seeing pastors for instance there's a group of pastors that instance there's a group of pastors that instance there's a group of pastors that are kind of following a catholic daily

are kind of following a catholic daily are kind of following a catholic daily mass and model and what they're doing is mass and model and what they're doing is mass and model and what they're doing is every morning at seven o'clock they're every morning at seven o'clock they're every morning at seven o'clock they're having a group of people that they do having a group of people that they do having a group of people that they do ministry and worship and teaching to ministry and worship and teaching to ministry and worship and teaching to online on a facebook group and one online on a facebook group and one online on a facebook group and one pastor i know in florida has three or pastor i know in florida has three or pastor i know in florida has three or four hundred people every morning that four hundred people every morning that four hundred people every morning that meet him at seven a.m monday through meet him at seven a.m monday through meet him at seven a.m monday through friday and then three or four thousand friday and then three or four thousand friday and then three or four thousand will watch it replay it over the course will watch it replay it over the course will watch it replay it over the course of the day of the day of the day another pastor is has been doing another pastor is has been doing another pastor is has been doing communion for 340 days in a row communion for 340 days in a row communion for 340 days in a row one pastor i talked to at the big church one pastor i talked to at the big church one pastor i talked to at the big church in the south is um he's going to in the south is um he's going to in the south is um he's going to continue live streaming for three continue live streaming for three continue live streaming for three sundays even though they don't have to sundays even though they don't have to sundays even though they don't have to he's gonna keep live streaming for three he's gonna keep live streaming for three he's gonna keep live streaming for three sundays a month and then the fourth sundays a month and then the fourth sundays a month and then the fourth weekend on friday night they're gonna weekend on friday night they're gonna weekend on friday night they're gonna have a big worship concert on saturday have a big worship concert on saturday have a big worship concert on saturday the congregation is going into the the congregation is going into the the congregation is going into the streets to do heavy-duty ministry to streets to do heavy-duty ministry to streets to do heavy-duty ministry to people and then they'll have a big people and then they'll have a big people and then they'll have a big blowout worship service in their church blowout worship service in their church blowout worship service in their church so whether you like those ideas or not so whether you like those ideas or not so whether you like those ideas or not it's really interesting to me that it's really interesting to me that it's really interesting to me that pastors are suddenly thinking hey why pastors are suddenly thinking hey why pastors are suddenly thinking hey why don't we keep doing this the same old don't we keep doing this the same old don't we keep doing this the same old way maybe it's time to shake things up way maybe it's time to shake things up way maybe it's time to shake things up and look for other ways that we can and look for other ways that we can and look for other ways that we can share the gospel in a more powerful way share the gospel in a more powerful way share the gospel in a more powerful way with people so i i think that's really with people so i i think that's really with people so i i think that's really fascinating to me fascinating to me fascinating to me yeah yeah yeah love it uh we could talk about that all love it uh we could talk about that all love it uh we could talk about that all day long but i do want to get to the day long but i do want to get to the day long but i do want to get to the book jason jason book jason jason book jason jason help us transition into a conversation help us transition into a conversation help us transition into a conversation about the book now yeah so you know you about the book now yeah so you know you about the book now yeah so you know you kind of mentioned who you wrote the book kind of mentioned who you wrote the book kind of mentioned who you wrote the book for right yeah in fact i think it's you for right yeah in fact i think it's you for right yeah in fact i think it's you know it's it's uh you know you know any know it's it's uh you know you know any know it's it's uh you know you know any church staff i mean honestly you need to church staff i mean honestly you need to church staff i mean honestly you need to get your hands on this book and read it get your hands on this book and read it get your hands on this book and read it maximizing your influence that's the maximizing your influence that's the maximizing your influence that's the name of your influence

[Laughter] [Laughter] hey there's multiple multiple ways you hey there's multiple multiple ways you hey there's multiple multiple ways you get your hands on this book get your hands on this book get your hands on this book um so you're so you can communication um so you're so you can communication um so you're so you can communication directors and i'm a former communication directors and i'm a former communication directors and i'm a former communication director so and i get to talk with director so and i get to talk with director so and i get to talk with communication directors all day long and communication directors all day long and communication directors all day long and it's it's a joy it's it's a joy it's it's a joy uh they're the second most influential uh they're the second most influential uh they're the second most influential person in the church yeah person in the church yeah person in the church yeah explain explain explain well the fact is it's a human well the fact is it's a human well the fact is it's a human communication direct you know it's funny communication direct you know it's funny communication direct you know it's funny um most churches a lot of churches i've um most churches a lot of churches i've um most churches a lot of churches i've been into over the years the been into over the years the been into over the years the communication director isn't even communication director isn't even communication director isn't even allowed to seat at the table it's just allowed to seat at the table it's just allowed to seat at the table it's just funny that uh everybody's in there the funny that uh everybody's in there the funny that uh everybody's in there the youth director is there the pastor has a youth director is there the pastor has a youth director is there the pastor has a staff meeting everybody comes but the staff meeting everybody comes but the staff meeting everybody comes but the media our communication guys are just media our communication guys are just media our communication guys are just kind of left in the wind and yet kind of left in the wind and yet kind of left in the wind and yet it's the communication team that's it's the communication team that's it's the communication team that's responsible for taking out that pastor's responsible for taking out that pastor's responsible for taking out that pastor's message and getting it far beyond the message and getting it far beyond the message and getting it far beyond the walls of the church to hundreds walls of the church to hundreds walls of the church to hundreds thousands potentially millions of people thousands potentially millions of people thousands potentially millions of people out there so i'll tell you what in the out there so i'll tell you what in the out there so i'll tell you what in the churches that i work with that are doing churches that i work with that are doing churches that i work with that are doing some amazing things and incredibly some amazing things and incredibly some amazing things and incredibly effective in almost every case effective in almost every case effective in almost every case the communication director is probably the communication director is probably the communication director is probably the second most influential person in the second most influential person in the second most influential person in the church certainly an executive pastor the church certainly an executive pastor the church certainly an executive pastor runs the place and that's all important runs the place and that's all important runs the place and that's all important and really great but i'll tell you that and really great but i'll tell you that and really great but i'll tell you that communications director job is to really communications director job is to really communications director job is to really enhance the message that pastor shares enhance the message that pastor shares enhance the message that pastor shares which means they have to be in close which means they have to be in close which means they have to be in close communication they have to be on the communication they have to be on the communication they have to be on the same wavelength they need to be talking same wavelength they need to be talking same wavelength they need to be talking back and forth with suggestions going back and forth with suggestions going back and forth with suggestions going back and forth so i just think that we back and forth so i just think that we back and forth so i just think that we don't realize just how important that don't realize just how important that don't realize just how important that communication director's role really is communication director's role really is communication director's role really is in a church setting well you're my new in a church setting well you're my new in a church setting well you're my new favorite person favorite person favorite person and you know what and probably a lot of

and you know what and probably a lot of and you know what and probably a lot of people listening to this podcast are people listening to this podcast are people listening to this podcast are going yes i should get my senior pastor going yes i should get my senior pastor going yes i should get my senior pastor and my executive pastor well let me give and my executive pastor well let me give and my executive pastor well let me give you a listen to this podcast let me give you a listen to this podcast let me give you a listen to this podcast let me give you a tip real quick here jason um a lot you a tip real quick here jason um a lot you a tip real quick here jason um a lot of a lot of these communication of a lot of these communication of a lot of these communication directors will tell me particularly directors will tell me particularly directors will tell me particularly media guys will tell me you know the media guys will tell me you know the media guys will tell me you know the pastor doesn't listen to me he didn't pastor doesn't listen to me he didn't pastor doesn't listen to me he didn't meet with me he's not you know we we meet with me he's not you know we we meet with me he's not you know we we never get together on stuff well the never get together on stuff well the never get together on stuff well the problem is in most cases the problem is in most cases the problem is in most cases the communication person or the media person communication person or the media person communication person or the media person is is is speaking their language when they go to speaking their language when they go to speaking their language when they go to a pastor let me tell you a pastor could a pastor let me tell you a pastor could a pastor let me tell you a pastor could care less about sound levels he could care less about sound levels he could care less about sound levels he could care less about light levels he doesn't care less about light levels he doesn't care less about light levels he doesn't care about video edits he doesn't care care about video edits he doesn't care care about video edits he doesn't care about any of that technical stuff or about any of that technical stuff or about any of that technical stuff or what it takes to build a website he what it takes to build a website he what it takes to build a website he doesn't care about analytics all a doesn't care about analytics all a doesn't care about analytics all a pastor cares about his mission he cares pastor cares about his mission he cares pastor cares about his mission he cares about ministry so we i always i'm about ministry so we i always i'm about ministry so we i always i'm telling telling telling media guys and communication guys look media guys and communication guys look media guys and communication guys look speak the pastor's language and suddenly speak the pastor's language and suddenly speak the pastor's language and suddenly you're going to find out he's your best you're going to find out he's your best you're going to find out he's your best friend and the other thing too is feed friend and the other thing too is feed friend and the other thing too is feed him ideas you should be constantly him ideas you should be constantly him ideas you should be constantly feeding the pastor and the teaching team feeding the pastor and the teaching team feeding the pastor and the teaching team ideas you do those two things and ideas you do those two things and ideas you do those two things and suddenly you'll be their best friend suddenly you'll be their best friend suddenly you'll be their best friend yeah yeah yeah yeah so so so this morning this is very yeah so so so this morning this is very yeah so so so this morning this is very interesting um i i interesting um i i interesting um i i walk most mornings you know three or walk most mornings you know three or walk most mornings you know three or four or five miles and i listen to four or five miles and i listen to four or five miles and i listen to podcasts and i have a long list of podcasts and i have a long list of podcasts and i have a long list of podcasts that i listen to and i'm podcasts that i listen to and i'm podcasts that i listen to and i'm usually i don't know weeks behind as usually i don't know weeks behind as usually i don't know weeks behind as they're populating my phone and they're populating my phone and they're populating my phone and ironically this morning i took off for ironically this morning i took off for ironically this morning i took off for my walk and here i hear an interview my walk and here i hear an interview my walk and here i hear an interview with phil cook and katie allred on the with phil cook and katie allred on the with phil cook and katie allred on the church communications podcast and i'm church communications podcast and i'm church communications podcast and i'm like oh this is great i'm going to like oh this is great i'm going to like oh this is great i'm going to listen to phil talk about his book listen to phil talk about his book listen to phil talk about his book before i interview him about his book

before i interview him about his book before i interview him about his book one of the things that you talked about one of the things that you talked about one of the things that you talked about with katie and you did write about in with katie and you did write about in with katie and you did write about in the book but you really you really flesh the book but you really you really flesh the book but you really you really flesh this out really well in your interview this out really well in your interview this out really well in your interview in the interview that she did with you in the interview that she did with you in the interview that she did with you uh was on the centrality of the church's uh was on the centrality of the church's uh was on the centrality of the church's website the importance of the church's website the importance of the church's website the importance of the church's website in relation to social media and website in relation to social media and website in relation to social media and other means of communication can you other means of communication can you other means of communication can you talk for a few minutes about why you talk for a few minutes about why you talk for a few minutes about why you think the church website is so important think the church website is so important think the church website is so important yeah i really feel like that the church yeah i really feel like that the church yeah i really feel like that the church website is the hub of everything a website is the hub of everything a website is the hub of everything a church does it's interesting that when church does it's interesting that when church does it's interesting that when social media really exploded and became social media really exploded and became social media really exploded and became so popular suddenly churches got on so popular suddenly churches got on so popular suddenly churches got on board with instagram or facebook or board with instagram or facebook or board with instagram or facebook or twitter and other platforms and they twitter and other platforms and they twitter and other platforms and they kind of left their website behind but kind of left their website behind but kind of left their website behind but the truth is as we've seen in the last the truth is as we've seen in the last the truth is as we've seen in the last year or two year or two year or two social media platforms can censor you social media platforms can censor you social media platforms can censor you they can delete you at a minute's notice they can delete you at a minute's notice they can delete you at a minute's notice and everything you've built over all and everything you've built over all and everything you've built over all those years is suddenly gone and yet those years is suddenly gone and yet those years is suddenly gone and yet your website is on a server which your website is on a server which your website is on a server which hopefully is going to keep you on for a hopefully is going to keep you on for a hopefully is going to keep you on for a long long time your live stream sits on long long time your live stream sits on long long time your live stream sits on your church website so many things you your church website so many things you your church website so many things you do is on your website and i have do is on your website and i have do is on your website and i have discovered discovered discovered that the vast majority of churches that the vast majority of churches that the vast majority of churches vast majority of potential you know one vast majority of potential you know one vast majority of potential you know one of the things i i'm sorry i'm not saying of the things i i'm sorry i'm not saying of the things i i'm sorry i'm not saying this very well but one of the potential this very well but one of the potential this very well but one of the potential mistakes church churches make is uh they mistakes church churches make is uh they mistakes church churches make is uh they don't realize that the vast vast vast don't realize that the vast vast vast don't realize that the vast vast vast majority of people will check them out majority of people will check them out majority of people will check them out online before they go visit the church online before they go visit the church online before they go visit the church and so i want your website to rock and so i want your website to rock and so i want your website to rock that's number one but number two you're that's number one but number two you're that's number one but number two you're trust me you're trust me you're trust me you're nobody at your church ever checks your nobody at your church ever checks your nobody at your church ever checks your church website i mean your church church website i mean your church church website i mean your church members know who the pastor is they know

members know who the pastor is they know members know who the pastor is they know where the church is located they know where the church is located they know where the church is located they know when the christmas pageant's coming up when the christmas pageant's coming up when the christmas pageant's coming up they don't ever go to your website but they don't ever go to your website but they don't ever go to your website but virtually all of potential new visitors virtually all of potential new visitors virtually all of potential new visitors will check the site before they come and will check the site before they come and will check the site before they come and visit which means your website needs to visit which means your website needs to visit which means your website needs to really be focused on what it would take really be focused on what it would take really be focused on what it would take to get somebody to make that step to to get somebody to make that step to to get somebody to make that step to come and actually visit so i i just am a come and actually visit so i i just am a come and actually visit so i i just am a big believer that the the website is the big believer that the the website is the big believer that the the website is the central focus of everything you do you central focus of everything you do you central focus of everything you do you can have your social media on your can have your social media on your can have your social media on your website you can do so many other short website you can do so many other short website you can do so many other short videos sermon content another thing i videos sermon content another thing i videos sermon content another thing i mean i think youtube channels and things mean i think youtube channels and things mean i think youtube channels and things like that are really critical but i just like that are really critical but i just like that are really critical but i just think that it all starts with a church think that it all starts with a church think that it all starts with a church website and goes out from there well website and goes out from there well website and goes out from there well that's that's that's that's that's that's that kind of talk we do all the time that kind of talk we do all the time that kind of talk we do all the time with churches so it's really good to with churches so it's really good to with churches so it's really good to have a guy like phil cook back up what have a guy like phil cook back up what have a guy like phil cook back up what we tell churches every day and that's we tell churches every day and that's we tell churches every day and that's your website it's a growing your website it's a growing your website it's a growing thing and you it's not made for your thing and you it's not made for your thing and you it's not made for your people people people yeah that's so true and there's a reason yeah that's so true and there's a reason yeah that's so true and there's a reason we call them web surfers and not web we call them web surfers and not web we call them web surfers and not web readers so the pastor's biography should readers so the pastor's biography should readers so the pastor's biography should not be four pages long let me just tell not be four pages long let me just tell not be four pages long let me just tell you um everything needs to be cut way you um everything needs to be cut way you um everything needs to be cut way way down because people just gloss over way down because people just gloss over way down because people just gloss over stuff and make it simple easy to find stuff and make it simple easy to find stuff and make it simple easy to find the statistics of you know the the statistics of you know the the statistics of you know the statistics are overwhelming of the statistics are overwhelming of the statistics are overwhelming of the number of people that if they can't find number of people that if they can't find number of people that if they can't find it within a matter of seconds they'll it within a matter of seconds they'll it within a matter of seconds they'll move on so whatever you want them to do move on so whatever you want them to do move on so whatever you want them to do grease the skids that's one of the grease the skids that's one of the grease the skids that's one of the frustrating things about live streaming frustrating things about live streaming frustrating things about live streaming i went to some websites during the i went to some websites during the i went to some websites during the lockdown it took me five six seven lockdown it took me five six seven lockdown it took me five six seven clicks seven different pages before i clicks seven different pages before i clicks seven different pages before i could finally get to their website let could finally get to their website let could finally get to their website let me tell you put it out there on the home me tell you put it out there on the home me tell you put it out there on the home page get it out front on sundays because

page get it out front on sundays because page get it out front on sundays because that's where it needs to be make it easy that's where it needs to be make it easy that's where it needs to be make it easy for people yep one click yeah for people yep one click yeah for people yep one click yeah okay so one of the things that i okay so one of the things that i okay so one of the things that i highlighted in your book uh as i was highlighted in your book uh as i was highlighted in your book uh as i was reading it was something that you didn't reading it was something that you didn't reading it was something that you didn't say say say you copied from somebody else which is you copied from somebody else which is you copied from somebody else which is the smartest thing i do the smartest thing i do the smartest thing i do sign of a great leader one of your one sign of a great leader one of your one sign of a great leader one of your one of your staff one of your staff members of your staff one of your staff members of your staff one of your staff members i i i i did not write down who it was i i i i did not write down who it was i i i i did not write down who it was but hopefully you remember the quote you but hopefully you remember the quote you but hopefully you remember the quote you quoted this quoted this quoted this she said i believe it was a a female on she said i believe it was a a female on she said i believe it was a a female on your team said what holds many your team said what holds many your team said what holds many organizations back is simply being organizations back is simply being organizations back is simply being afraid of failure because others are afraid of failure because others are afraid of failure because others are watching watching watching yeah i'm assuming you agree with that yeah i'm assuming you agree with that yeah i'm assuming you agree with that statement since you you since you used statement since you you since you used statement since you you since you used it in your book even though you didn't it in your book even though you didn't it in your book even though you didn't say it that's that's done don say it that's that's done don say it that's that's done don don nicole baldwin who is really don nicole baldwin who is really don nicole baldwin who is really brilliant at this stuff i mean she's brilliant at this stuff i mean she's brilliant at this stuff i mean she's absolutely brilliant and she was the absolutely brilliant and she was the absolutely brilliant and she was the communication director at willow creek communication director at willow creek communication director at willow creek church back in their heyday she left church back in their heyday she left church back in their heyday she left them to go launch veggie tales them to go launch veggie tales them to go launch veggie tales nationwide to lead the team that did nationwide to lead the team that did nationwide to lead the team that did that and um more recently she's been that and um more recently she's been that and um more recently she's been with us for about working with us for with us for about working with us for with us for about working with us for about 12 years and she's she's just about 12 years and she's she's just about 12 years and she's she's just brilliant she's exactly right say the brilliant she's exactly right say the brilliant she's exactly right say the quote again because i think it's worth quote again because i think it's worth quote again because i think it's worth people listening people listening people listening what holds many organizations back is what holds many organizations back is what holds many organizations back is simply being afraid of failure because simply being afraid of failure because simply being afraid of failure because others are watching others are watching others are watching yeah oh man and and i'll highlight this yeah oh man and and i'll highlight this yeah oh man and and i'll highlight this too others are watching because we're too others are watching because we're too others are watching because we're putting it all online now right i mean putting it all online now right i mean putting it all online now right i mean it's all online and so the risk the risk it's all online and so the risk the risk it's all online and so the risk the risk is high but the reward i think is also is high but the reward i think is also is high but the reward i think is also high um high um high um yeah well you know there's a lot of

yeah well you know there's a lot of yeah well you know there's a lot of leadership teaching out there about leadership teaching out there about leadership teaching out there about learning from your mistakes you know learning from your mistakes you know learning from your mistakes you know pushing the limits constantly failing um pushing the limits constantly failing um pushing the limits constantly failing um i don't believe in a culture of failure i don't believe in a culture of failure i don't believe in a culture of failure but i do believe if you're not failing but i do believe if you're not failing but i do believe if you're not failing every once in a while you're not pushing every once in a while you're not pushing every once in a while you're not pushing hard enough and she's exactly right we hard enough and she's exactly right we hard enough and she's exactly right we all we're so worried about what other all we're so worried about what other all we're so worried about what other people think and i actually think the people think and i actually think the people think and i actually think the greatest sin short of maybe pride might greatest sin short of maybe pride might greatest sin short of maybe pride might be comparison and that probably is an be comparison and that probably is an be comparison and that probably is an offshoot of pride offshoot of pride offshoot of pride we're just constantly trying to look so we're just constantly trying to look so we're just constantly trying to look so good in front of everybody else and i good in front of everybody else and i good in front of everybody else and i think what the irony of all that is think what the irony of all that is think what the irony of all that is one thing i've discovered online one thing i've discovered online one thing i've discovered online particularly with social media is the particularly with social media is the particularly with social media is the very thing that makes you makes people very thing that makes you makes people very thing that makes you makes people want to connect with you want to connect with you want to connect with you is your imperfections they want to see is your imperfections they want to see is your imperfections they want to see your authentic real self and so if we're your authentic real self and so if we're your authentic real self and so if we're constantly projecting this theme of how constantly projecting this theme of how constantly projecting this theme of how awesome we are people that that turns awesome we are people that that turns awesome we are people that that turns people off really really quick i was people off really really quick i was people off really really quick i was talking to someone this morning about talking to someone this morning about talking to someone this morning about how pastors underbrag on social media how pastors underbrag on social media how pastors underbrag on social media you know when when a pastoral post you know when when a pastoral post you know when when a pastoral post praise god we had 5 000 cars in the praise god we had 5 000 cars in the praise god we had 5 000 cars in the parking lot today god's really moving at parking lot today god's really moving at parking lot today god's really moving at this church you know it's just kind of this church you know it's just kind of this church you know it's just kind of patting yourself in the back without patting yourself in the back without patting yourself in the back without sounding like it um people know people sounding like it um people know people sounding like it um people know people know so i think be real don't be afraid know so i think be real don't be afraid know so i think be real don't be afraid to show your mistakes i think very often to show your mistakes i think very often to show your mistakes i think very often that's the thing the most important that's the thing the most important that's the thing the most important thing to get people to want to connect thing to get people to want to connect thing to get people to want to connect with you yeah with you yeah with you yeah yeah you write in the book you write in yeah you write in the book you write in yeah you write in the book you write in the book and you cite uh you version and the book and you cite uh you version and the book and you cite uh you version and life church's development of you version life church's development of you version life church's development of you version as you know a pivotal aspect of online as you know a pivotal aspect of online as you know a pivotal aspect of online and digital media and bobby greenwald and digital media and bobby greenwald and digital media and bobby greenwald talks about the fact that the youversion talks about the fact that the youversion talks about the fact that the youversion bible app came out of a failure like bible app came out of a failure like bible app came out of a failure like they yeah they had a completely they yeah they had a completely they yeah they had a completely different plan for what it was going to

different plan for what it was going to different plan for what it was going to be and uh and youversion came out of a be and uh and youversion came out of a be and uh and youversion came out of a failure i i need to fail at something failure i i need to fail at something failure i i need to fail at something like that that bounces that i mean that like that that bounces that i mean that like that that bounces that i mean that ball that ball bounced high sorry i'm choking to death because sorry i'm choking to death because that's so funny you know what the one of that's so funny you know what the one of that's so funny you know what the one of the great things about craig rochelle is the great things about craig rochelle is the great things about craig rochelle is that he's virtually created he and bobby that he's virtually created he and bobby that he's virtually created he and bobby have virtually created our a research have virtually created our a research have virtually created our a research and development division at life church and development division at life church and development division at life church i mean they have a team of guys that's i mean they have a team of guys that's i mean they have a team of guys that's all they do is try stuff and see if it all they do is try stuff and see if it all they do is try stuff and see if it works or not throw it up against the works or not throw it up against the works or not throw it up against the wall and i wish more churches had that wall and i wish more churches had that wall and i wish more churches had that spirit we're never going to push the spirit we're never going to push the spirit we're never going to push the envelope very far if we're not out there envelope very far if we're not out there envelope very far if we're not out there trying new things trying new things trying new things and yet i still you you in all after all and yet i still you you in all after all and yet i still you you in all after all the years i've been doing this i still the years i've been doing this i still the years i've been doing this i still hear but phil that's the way we've hear but phil that's the way we've hear but phil that's the way we've always done it and i just want to jump always done it and i just want to jump always done it and i just want to jump out of window whenever i hear that out of window whenever i hear that out of window whenever i hear that because it drives me nuts so i'm a big because it drives me nuts so i'm a big because it drives me nuts so i'm a big believer in allowing your team enough believer in allowing your team enough believer in allowing your team enough rope to hang themselves let them go out rope to hang themselves let them go out rope to hang themselves let them go out there and try it let's see what happens there and try it let's see what happens there and try it let's see what happens and go from there and go from there and go from there every business that's successful has every business that's successful has every business that's successful has been there yeah right been there yeah right been there yeah right true yeah true yeah true yeah so you know oregon organizationally you so you know oregon organizationally you so you know oregon organizationally you know we work with we work with hundreds know we work with we work with hundreds know we work with we work with hundreds of churches across the country and and of churches across the country and and of churches across the country and and and we offer paid services to churches and we offer paid services to churches and we offer paid services to churches that need them because we want to help that need them because we want to help that need them because we want to help them get better at what they do but one them get better at what they do but one them get better at what they do but one of the things that jason has really led of the things that jason has really led of the things that jason has really led our organization well in our organization well in our organization well in is helping our team members really see is helping our team members really see is helping our team members really see themselves as coaches and cheerleaders themselves as coaches and cheerleaders themselves as coaches and cheerleaders first and so when we're working with first and so when we're working with first and so when we're working with churches churches churches we give away far more teaching training we give away far more teaching training we give away far more teaching training and coaching than we ever charge

and coaching than we ever charge and coaching than we ever charge churches for and and so much of that is churches for and and so much of that is churches for and and so much of that is because because because what churches church leaders what churches church leaders what churches church leaders communications directors communications directors communications directors what they need to know is really so much what they need to know is really so much what they need to know is really so much of it is at their fingertips and so much of it is at their fingertips and so much of it is at their fingertips and so much of it is free and accessible to them and of it is free and accessible to them and of it is free and accessible to them and one of the chapters that you wrote in one of the chapters that you wrote in one of the chapters that you wrote in the book is about non-budget marketing the book is about non-budget marketing the book is about non-budget marketing and promotion there are ways for and promotion there are ways for and promotion there are ways for churches to actually market themselves churches to actually market themselves churches to actually market themselves promote themselves to do outreach promote themselves to do outreach promote themselves to do outreach without having to throw a lot of dollars without having to throw a lot of dollars without having to throw a lot of dollars behind it why don't you spend a few behind it why don't you spend a few behind it why don't you spend a few minutes just talking about some of the minutes just talking about some of the minutes just talking about some of the things that you've seen churches do or things that you've seen churches do or things that you've seen churches do or that you would encourage churches to do that you would encourage churches to do that you would encourage churches to do to capitalize on the resources that are to capitalize on the resources that are to capitalize on the resources that are available that they don't have to pay available that they don't have to pay available that they don't have to pay for well i learned that principle years for well i learned that principle years for well i learned that principle years and years and years ago when we first and years and years ago when we first and years and years ago when we first came to los angeles many many years ago came to los angeles many many years ago came to los angeles many many years ago our pastor was jack hayford church on our pastor was jack hayford church on our pastor was jack hayford church on the way here in los angeles and he's the way here in los angeles and he's the way here in los angeles and he's just the protestant pope as far as i'm just the protestant pope as far as i'm just the protestant pope as far as i'm concerned i just adore jack and he's concerned i just adore jack and he's concerned i just adore jack and he's long since been retired from ministry long since been retired from ministry long since been retired from ministry but when he launched church on the way but when he launched church on the way but when he launched church on the way probably 50 years ago now 40 or 50 years probably 50 years ago now 40 or 50 years probably 50 years ago now 40 or 50 years ago when he first in that first few ago when he first in that first few ago when he first in that first few years of launching the church he called years of launching the church he called years of launching the church he called up the religion editor of the los up the religion editor of the los up the religion editor of the los angeles times and said i'd like to take angeles times and said i'd like to take angeles times and said i'd like to take you to lunch so they went to lunch and you to lunch so they went to lunch and you to lunch so they went to lunch and jack said look i know you're having to jack said look i know you're having to jack said look i know you're having to cover every religious faith every or you cover every religious faith every or you cover every religious faith every or you know every religious group there is and know every religious group there is and know every religious group there is and you're probably overwhelmed he said i'll you're probably overwhelmed he said i'll you're probably overwhelmed he said i'll tell you what i would be happy to put my tell you what i would be happy to put my tell you what i would be happy to put my staff at your disposal anytime you need staff at your disposal anytime you need staff at your disposal anytime you need them if you need research if you need to them if you need research if you need to them if you need research if you need to have questions or if you just want to have questions or if you just want to have questions or if you just want to find out about some things or maybe find out about some things or maybe find out about some things or maybe network with somebody you give me a call network with somebody you give me a call network with somebody you give me a call here's my phone give me a call anytime here's my phone give me a call anytime here's my phone give me a call anytime well let me tell you since that time

well let me tell you since that time well let me tell you since that time jack hayford has been quoted in the los jack hayford has been quoted in the los jack hayford has been quoted in the los angeles times probably hundreds of times angeles times probably hundreds of times angeles times probably hundreds of times more than anybody in the history of the more than anybody in the history of the more than anybody in the history of the world and it's only because he offered world and it's only because he offered world and it's only because he offered that so many years ago hasn't paid a that so many years ago hasn't paid a that so many years ago hasn't paid a penny for it and yet he's probably penny for it and yet he's probably penny for it and yet he's probably gotten millions of dollars worth of gotten millions of dollars worth of gotten millions of dollars worth of advertising locally in the la times so advertising locally in the la times so advertising locally in the la times so there's so many ways you can reach out there's so many ways you can reach out there's so many ways you can reach out to people today most newspapers don't to people today most newspapers don't to people today most newspapers don't have a religion editor anymore but have a religion editor anymore but have a religion editor anymore but there's ways you can reach out to the there's ways you can reach out to the there's ways you can reach out to the local television newspaper other media local television newspaper other media local television newspaper other media sources there's lots of things you can sources there's lots of things you can sources there's lots of things you can do plus blogs and things like that we do plus blogs and things like that we do plus blogs and things like that we don't advertise our team at cook media don't advertise our team at cook media don't advertise our team at cook media group probably much like you guys we group probably much like you guys we group probably much like you guys we don't ever advertise and it's mostly don't ever advertise and it's mostly don't ever advertise and it's mostly word of mouth because we're out there word of mouth because we're out there word of mouth because we're out there constantly making connections with constantly making connections with constantly making connections with people so i just think that there's so people so i just think that there's so people so i just think that there's so much we can do much we can do much we can do i think many pastors and communication i think many pastors and communication i think many pastors and communication directors media directors get hung up on directors media directors get hung up on directors media directors get hung up on the fact that i don't have a massive the fact that i don't have a massive the fact that i don't have a massive budget well let me tell you there's budget well let me tell you there's budget well let me tell you there's there's a lot of things you could do there's a lot of things you could do there's a lot of things you could do without a budget and the other issue without a budget and the other issue without a budget and the other issue along this line is volunteers along this line is volunteers along this line is volunteers over and over i'm in meetings with over and over i'm in meetings with over and over i'm in meetings with churches that say well we can't do what churches that say well we can't do what churches that say well we can't do what elevation church does or life church or elevation church does or life church or elevation church does or life church or hillsong does because they have a huge hillsong does because they have a huge hillsong does because they have a huge highly paid staff well no they don't i i highly paid staff well no they don't i i highly paid staff well no they don't i i was in a meeting the other day and we was in a meeting the other day and we was in a meeting the other day and we were talking about steven furtick at were talking about steven furtick at were talking about steven furtick at elevation and i i texted his television elevation and i i texted his television elevation and i i texted his television director and i said how many of your director and i said how many of your director and i said how many of your camera crew and your your whole tv camera crew and your your whole tv camera crew and your your whole tv production team are paid he said one guy production team are paid he said one guy production team are paid he said one guy just one guy everybody else is volunteer just one guy everybody else is volunteer just one guy everybody else is volunteer if you'll take the time to train your if you'll take the time to train your if you'll take the time to train your volunteers you'd be stunned at how much volunteers you'd be stunned at how much volunteers you'd be stunned at how much you can learn from them and how much you you can learn from them and how much you you can learn from them and how much you can get them to do stuff it's really can get them to do stuff it's really can get them to do stuff it's really quite remarkable and let me say one last

quite remarkable and let me say one last quite remarkable and let me say one last thing and is that is uh thing and is that is uh thing and is that is uh who goes to your church uh ken foreman a who goes to your church uh ken foreman a who goes to your church uh ken foreman a pastor up in san jose pastor up in san jose pastor up in san jose i went to college with him a number of i went to college with him a number of i went to college with him a number of years ago years ago years ago he was thinking you know what i really he was thinking you know what i really he was thinking you know what i really don't know what my church members do for don't know what my church members do for don't know what my church members do for a living so he literally did a survey a living so he literally did a survey a living so he literally did a survey and he discovered they had something and he discovered they had something and he discovered they had something like 18 dentists in his church so he got like 18 dentists in his church so he got like 18 dentists in his church so he got him over to his house one night and said him over to his house one night and said him over to his house one night and said guys what can we do and they launched a guys what can we do and they launched a guys what can we do and they launched a ministry that today is the largest free ministry that today is the largest free ministry that today is the largest free dental clinic in the entire san dental clinic in the entire san dental clinic in the entire san francisco bay area it's been featured on francisco bay area it's been featured on francisco bay area it's been featured on usa today and usa today on abc on nbc in usa today and usa today on abc on nbc in usa today and usa today on abc on nbc in fact usa network sent me up there to do fact usa network sent me up there to do fact usa network sent me up there to do a story about it for the usa network no a story about it for the usa network no a story about it for the usa network no christian sources these are all secular christian sources these are all secular christian sources these are all secular sources that are blown away by how sources that are blown away by how sources that are blown away by how extensive this free dental clinic is up extensive this free dental clinic is up extensive this free dental clinic is up there and it all started from just there and it all started from just there and it all started from just finding out who goes to your church what finding out who goes to your church what finding out who goes to your church what do they do for a living another church do they do for a living another church do they do for a living another church in vancouver did the same thing and in vancouver did the same thing and in vancouver did the same thing and discovered they had discovered they had discovered they had tons of beauticians in their church hair tons of beauticians in their church hair tons of beauticians in their church hair stylist and they launched a ministry to stylist and they launched a ministry to stylist and they launched a ministry to homeless women in the vancouver area homeless women in the vancouver area homeless women in the vancouver area helping him do makeovers because they helping him do makeovers because they helping him do makeovers because they said boy i tell you do a makeover with a said boy i tell you do a makeover with a said boy i tell you do a makeover with a homeless woman it completely changes her homeless woman it completely changes her homeless woman it completely changes her perspective and so just finding out what perspective and so just finding out what perspective and so just finding out what your people do how to mobilize your people do how to mobilize your people do how to mobilize volunteers you can do some remarkable volunteers you can do some remarkable volunteers you can do some remarkable remarkable things well at my church when remarkable things well at my church when remarkable things well at my church when we went from one campus to two campuses we went from one campus to two campuses we went from one campus to two campuses this is a while ago that's a big deal this is a while ago that's a big deal this is a while ago that's a big deal like because you have to figure out like because you have to figure out like because you have to figure out broadcast broadcast broadcast unbeknownst to us sitting in our unbeknownst to us sitting in our unbeknownst to us sitting in our congregation a member of our church was congregation a member of our church was congregation a member of our church was the producer for arizona diamondback the producer for arizona diamondback the producer for arizona diamondback baseball baseball baseball i think maybe he has an idea on how to i think maybe he has an idea on how to i think maybe he has an idea on how to take this from one to two campuses no

take this from one to two campuses no take this from one to two campuses no kidding no kidding so you're a you're kidding no kidding so you're a you're kidding no kidding so you're a you're absolutely right you have no idea who's absolutely right you have no idea who's absolutely right you have no idea who's sitting in your congregation yeah it's sitting in your congregation yeah it's sitting in your congregation yeah it's just amazing just amazing just amazing that is a really good point um well that is a really good point um well that is a really good point um well let's uh let's let's uh let's let's uh let's kind of bring things to a close here we kind of bring things to a close here we kind of bring things to a close here we we could go on forever there's actually we could go on forever there's actually we could go on forever there's actually a whole other list of questions that i a whole other list of questions that i a whole other list of questions that i wanted to talk to you and hopefully wanted to talk to you and hopefully wanted to talk to you and hopefully we've made a good impression and we can we've made a good impression and we can we've made a good impression and we can sorry i've been i've been ranting i sorry i've been i've been ranting i sorry i've been i've been ranting i apologize no no apologize no no apologize no no yeah this has been fantastic um but yeah yeah this has been fantastic um but yeah yeah this has been fantastic um but yeah they're i mean i've got a note sheet they're i mean i've got a note sheet they're i mean i've got a note sheet here but i've got a whole other set of here but i've got a whole other set of here but i've got a whole other set of questions and things that i wanted to questions and things that i wanted to questions and things that i wanted to talk to you about and i knew we weren't talk to you about and i knew we weren't talk to you about and i knew we weren't going to get to them in this in this going to get to them in this in this going to get to them in this in this time that we had together today so um time that we had together today so um time that we had together today so um maybe we can do it again sometime um why maybe we can do it again sometime um why maybe we can do it again sometime um why don't you share with us like what's next don't you share with us like what's next don't you share with us like what's next for phil cook what are the things that for phil cook what are the things that for phil cook what are the things that you have coming up on the horizon and you have coming up on the horizon and you have coming up on the horizon and what are some things that we can be what are some things that we can be what are some things that we can be looking for from you looking for from you looking for from you well you know it's funny the thing that well you know it's funny the thing that well you know it's funny the thing that really gets my blood pumping is v is really gets my blood pumping is v is really gets my blood pumping is v is ministries and churches that have a ministries and churches that have a ministries and churches that have a [Music] [Music] [Music] real vision for something different we real vision for something different we real vision for something different we got a call a few years ago from a small got a call a few years ago from a small got a call a few years ago from a small ministry one woman ministry in atlanta ministry one woman ministry in atlanta ministry one woman ministry in atlanta and white and she asked me to come in and white and she asked me to come in and white and she asked me to come in and just talk to her about branding her and just talk to her about branding her and just talk to her about branding her ministry kind of repositioning it to ministry kind of repositioning it to ministry kind of repositioning it to help her launch and it she was so small help her launch and it she was so small help her launch and it she was so small i didn't i didn't want to do it and my i didn't i didn't want to do it and my i didn't i didn't want to do it and my wife taught wife taught wife taught me into it and we go down there we met me into it and we go down there we met me into it and we go down there we met with her and we ended up building her with her and we ended up building her with her and we ended up building her you know redoing her website you know redoing her website you know redoing her website renaming her ministry completely renaming her ministry completely renaming her ministry completely changing everything about it she has a changing everything about it she has a changing everything about it she has a passion for teaching the bible to passion for teaching the bible to passion for teaching the bible to at-risk women so she was having she was at-risk women so she was having she was at-risk women so she was having she was training teachers to go into the cook training teachers to go into the cook training teachers to go into the cook county prison system jail system there

county prison system jail system there county prison system jail system there in atlanta and teach the bible to these in atlanta and teach the bible to these in atlanta and teach the bible to these women who were women who were women who were be you know battered women be you know battered women be you know battered women uh addicted people who had been addicted uh addicted people who had been addicted uh addicted people who had been addicted to drugs and alcohol people women who to drugs and alcohol people women who to drugs and alcohol people women who were in prison and we did some research were in prison and we did some research were in prison and we did some research and we found out that uh she she had a and we found out that uh she she had a and we found out that uh she she had a real she's she's a brilliant writer she real she's she's a brilliant writer she real she's she's a brilliant writer she decided she wanted to make a study bible decided she wanted to make a study bible decided she wanted to make a study bible with all her study notes in it for these with all her study notes in it for these with all her study notes in it for these women and um so we started researching women and um so we started researching women and um so we started researching and discovered hey if you're running and discovered hey if you're running and discovered hey if you're running from a husband who's beaten you for the from a husband who's beaten you for the from a husband who's beaten you for the last few years you're just taking the last few years you're just taking the last few years you're just taking the clothes on your back maybe your kids you clothes on your back maybe your kids you clothes on your back maybe your kids you don't have time for a big thick study don't have time for a big thick study don't have time for a big thick study bible lugging that around and so we bible lugging that around and so we bible lugging that around and so we decided everybody's got a phone and even decided everybody's got a phone and even decided everybody's got a phone and even in prison they have phones so maybe we in prison they have phones so maybe we in prison they have phones so maybe we start making an app to use on phones or start making an app to use on phones or start making an app to use on phones or digital tablets and digital tablets and digital tablets and then we discovered that then we discovered that then we discovered that women who have been beaten by men for women who have been beaten by men for women who have been beaten by men for the last six or eight years the last the last six or eight years the last the last six or eight years the last thing in the world they want to hear is thing in the world they want to hear is thing in the world they want to hear is the bible read by a man's voice the bible read by a man's voice the bible read by a man's voice and so we started looking for and so we started looking for and so we started looking for apps you know bible apps the bible apps you know bible apps the bible apps you know bible apps the bible recordings with women and there were recordings with women and there were recordings with women and there were none nobody had ever recorded the bible none nobody had ever recorded the bible none nobody had ever recorded the bible entirely with women's voices so we did entirely with women's voices so we did entirely with women's voices so we did it we did the whole project the entire it we did the whole project the entire it we did the whole project the entire bible we did it out here in a big studio bible we did it out here in a big studio bible we did it out here in a big studio here in los angeles and it's up courage here in los angeles and it's up courage here in los angeles and it's up courage for life is the name of the the ministry for life is the name of the the ministry for life is the name of the the ministry and uh right now that app is on about 68 and uh right now that app is on about 68 and uh right now that app is on about 68 digital tablets uh on 68 000 digital digital tablets uh on 68 000 digital digital tablets uh on 68 000 digital tablets in the prison systems in tablets in the prison systems in tablets in the prison systems in missouri uh georgia and i think it's missouri uh georgia and i think it's missouri uh georgia and i think it's moving into alabama and now we're moving into alabama and now we're moving into alabama and now we're working on the same thing in a spanish working on the same thing in a spanish working on the same thing in a spanish version so just you know ministries that version so just you know ministries that version so just you know ministries that are open to trying new things just

are open to trying new things just are open to trying new things just really interest me and she was just really interest me and she was just really interest me and she was just willing to say okay let's look at the willing to say okay let's look at the willing to say okay let's look at the research let's see what's working what's research let's see what's working what's research let's see what's working what's not working and let's try something not working and let's try something not working and let's try something different and as a result we ended up different and as a result we ended up different and as a result we ended up with the first audio bible ever recorded with the first audio bible ever recorded with the first audio bible ever recorded with entirely women's voices so it's not with entirely women's voices so it's not with entirely women's voices so it's not my normal television thing it's not our my normal television thing it's not our my normal television thing it's not our normal video thing but it was just a normal video thing but it was just a normal video thing but it was just a fascinating thing and it's made such a fascinating thing and it's made such a fascinating thing and it's made such a huge the white house now has their huge the white house now has their huge the white house now has their prison uh the team that's working on prison uh the team that's working on prison uh the team that's working on prison reform they're looking at it to prison reform they're looking at it to prison reform they're looking at it to see how they could use it because it's see how they could use it because it's see how they could use it because it's made such an impact out there so it's made such an impact out there so it's made such an impact out there so it's just i'm just constantly fascinated with just i'm just constantly fascinated with just i'm just constantly fascinated with ministry leaders that have a real vision ministry leaders that have a real vision ministry leaders that have a real vision well and the point there is listen to well and the point there is listen to well and the point there is listen to your wife well yeah your wife well yeah your wife well yeah that's for sure yeah kathleen's a lot that's for sure yeah kathleen's a lot that's for sure yeah kathleen's a lot smarter than me there's no question smarter than me there's no question smarter than me there's no question about that so that's a good point good about that so that's a good point good about that so that's a good point good point point point phil that's really neat i appreciate you phil that's really neat i appreciate you phil that's really neat i appreciate you sharing that with us because you know i sharing that with us because you know i sharing that with us because you know i mean obviously mean obviously mean obviously when when someone writes books and you when when someone writes books and you when when someone writes books and you read their books you kind of get a feel read their books you kind of get a feel read their books you kind of get a feel or you think you get a feel for who that or you think you get a feel for who that or you think you get a feel for who that person is and of course we we see your person is and of course we we see your person is and of course we we see your media we see your production we see the media we see your production we see the media we see your production we see the stories that you tell and of course you stories that you tell and of course you stories that you tell and of course you know you kind of know you kind of know you kind of make some assumptions and draw some make some assumptions and draw some make some assumptions and draw some conclusions but you know sharing that conclusions but you know sharing that conclusions but you know sharing that story right there thanks to kathleen um story right there thanks to kathleen um story right there thanks to kathleen um that's just gold that's just absolutely that's just gold that's just absolutely that's just gold that's just absolutely that's absolutely thank you that's absolutely thank you that's absolutely thank you hey phil thank you so much for spending hey phil thank you so much for spending hey phil thank you so much for spending the time with us today if um if any of the time with us today if um if any of the time with us today if um if any of our listeners or video watchers are our listeners or video watchers are our listeners or video watchers are interested in finding out more about interested in finding out more about interested in finding out more about what you're doing or they want to what you're doing or they want to what you're doing or they want to connect with you what are the best ways connect with you what are the best ways connect with you what are the best ways for them well the hub for me is for them well the hub for me is for them well the hub for me is philcook.com that's my blog and you can philcook.com that's my blog and you can philcook.com that's my blog and you can find my social media there i'm at find my social media there i'm at find my social media there i'm at philcook with an e on instagram twitter philcook with an e on instagram twitter philcook with an e on instagram twitter and phil cook on on social on facebook

and phil cook on on social on facebook and phil cook on on social on facebook but my blog is really everything starts but my blog is really everything starts but my blog is really everything starts there and you can reach out to me from there and you can reach out to me from there and you can reach out to me from the blog if you have questions or the blog if you have questions or the blog if you have questions or something you want to run by me feel something you want to run by me feel something you want to run by me feel free to do it you can do it through my free to do it you can do it through my free to do it you can do it through my blog so check out philcook.com you can blog so check out philcook.com you can blog so check out philcook.com you can order the book from there if you want to order the book from there if you want to order the book from there if you want to there's so many options there so that'd there's so many options there so that'd there's so many options there so that'd be the place be the place be the place hey this is kind of a side note and if hey this is kind of a side note and if hey this is kind of a side note and if i'm wrong you can correct me but i heard i'm wrong you can correct me but i heard i'm wrong you can correct me but i heard this when you were interviewed by katie this when you were interviewed by katie this when you were interviewed by katie did you start a non-profit did you start a non-profit did you start a non-profit yeah yeah yeah that that is kind of connected with the that that is kind of connected with the that that is kind of connected with the book in some way i'm sorry book in some way i'm sorry book in some way i'm sorry you guys would actually love this um you guys would actually love this um you guys would actually love this um we've been inundated over the years with we've been inundated over the years with we've been inundated over the years with uh uh uh people christians reaching out people christians reaching out people christians reaching out internationally people in africa asia internationally people in africa asia internationally people in africa asia south america wanting to have media south america wanting to have media south america wanting to have media training they want to know how do i use training they want to know how do i use training they want to know how do i use short films and social media to really short films and social media to really short films and social media to really reach the lost uh in our area and so reach the lost uh in our area and so reach the lost uh in our area and so we've had a couple of things where we've we've had a couple of things where we've we've had a couple of things where we've taken groups from hollywood high level taken groups from hollywood high level taken groups from hollywood high level christians in the industry directors of christians in the industry directors of christians in the industry directors of photography producers screenwriters photography producers screenwriters photography producers screenwriters social media experts we've taken teams social media experts we've taken teams social media experts we've taken teams we took one team to cairo did a week we took one team to cairo did a week we took one team to cairo did a week training with a church there that's training with a church there that's training with a church there that's producing eight um 80 hours of broadcast producing eight um 80 hours of broadcast producing eight um 80 hours of broadcast television beamed into the muslim world television beamed into the muslim world television beamed into the muslim world via satellite via satellite via satellite and we were just paying for it ourselves and we were just paying for it ourselves and we were just paying for it ourselves and um so we finally that was beginning and um so we finally that was beginning and um so we finally that was beginning to be a struggle so we've got so many to be a struggle so we've got so many to be a struggle so we've got so many requests we launched a non-profit called requests we launched a non-profit called requests we launched a non-profit called the influence lab you can check it out the influence lab you can check it out the influence lab you can check it out at influencelab.com at influencelab.com at influencelab.com and um that we just use it to kind of and um that we just use it to kind of and um that we just use it to kind of raise enough money to help us continue raise enough money to help us continue raise enough money to help us continue that work of teaching international that work of teaching international that work of teaching international folks how to use media for the gospel folks how to use media for the gospel folks how to use media for the gospel and you can actually go to

and you can actually go to and you can actually go to influencematters.com order my book do a influencematters.com order my book do a influencematters.com order my book do a donation there i'll autograph it for you donation there i'll autograph it for you donation there i'll autograph it for you and um and that would be a great way to and um and that would be a great way to and um and that would be a great way to donate to the influence lab and get a donate to the influence lab and get a donate to the influence lab and get a copy of the book so influencematters.com copy of the book so influencematters.com copy of the book so influencematters.com would be that place thank you for asking would be that place thank you for asking would be that place thank you for asking about that by the way about that by the way about that by the way you're very welcome i'm glad that i did you're very welcome i'm glad that i did you're very welcome i'm glad that i did that's awesome we really appreciate you that's awesome we really appreciate you that's awesome we really appreciate you thanks again for spending the time with thanks again for spending the time with thanks again for spending the time with us today phil it's been great history us today phil it's been great history us today phil it's been great history appreciate it appreciate it appreciate it [Music]