Building a Strong Volunteer Team for Your Church | Dan Reiland

[Music] [Music] you ever start recruiting with a job you ever start recruiting with a job you ever start recruiting with a job description or a task it's just what description or a task it's just what description or a task it's just what it's just what you said Jason it's a it's just what you said Jason it's a it's just what you said Jason it's a it's a vision it's something bigger than it's a vision it's something bigger than it's a vision it's something bigger than you it's a Preferred Future you it's a Preferred Future you it's a Preferred Future my name is Bart Blair this is season my name is Bart Blair this is season my name is Bart Blair this is season three episode 40 of the missional three episode 40 of the missional three episode 40 of the missional marketing podcast thanks for tuning in marketing podcast thanks for tuning in marketing podcast thanks for tuning in to another episode of the show unless to another episode of the show unless to another episode of the show unless 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helpful for you if you think we're helpful for you if you think we're helpful for you if you think we're already knocking it out of the park go already knocking it out of the park go already knocking it out of the park go ahead and tell us that too because well ahead and tell us that too because well ahead and tell us that too because well we like that feedback as well if you've we like that feedback as well if you've we like that feedback as well if you've come here to learn today you're in for a come here to learn today you're in for a come here to learn today you're in for a treat Our Guest second time on our show treat Our Guest second time on our show treat Our Guest second time on our show is Dan Ryland who serves at 12 Stone is Dan Ryland who serves at 12 Stone is Dan Ryland who serves at 12 Stone Church phenomenal church and Dan is just Church phenomenal church and Dan is just Church phenomenal church and Dan is just a phenomenal leader if you don't know a phenomenal leader if you don't know a phenomenal leader if you don't know anything about Dan just Google him anything about Dan just Google him anything about Dan just Google him you'll find probably hundreds of podcast you'll find probably hundreds of podcast you'll find probably hundreds of podcast episodes from around the globe that he episodes from around the globe that he episodes from around the globe that he has been a guest on he isn't a man that has been a guest on he isn't a man that has been a guest on he isn't a man that just seems to have an endless and just seems to have an endless and just seems to have an endless and endless supply of wisdom knowledge and endless supply of wisdom knowledge and endless supply of wisdom knowledge and experience that he shares with us and in experience that he shares with us and in experience that he shares with us and in today's conversation we're going to talk today's conversation we're going to talk today's conversation we're going to talk specifically about building strong specifically about building strong specifically about building strong volunteer teams um this has been a volunteer teams um this has been a volunteer teams um this has been a little bit of a theme in the last few little bit of a theme in the last few little bit of a theme in the last few episodes of our podcast we've been episodes of our podcast we've been episodes of our podcast we've been talking a lot about volunteers and talking a lot about volunteers and talking a lot about volunteers and volunteer teams and even though we know volunteer teams and even though we know volunteer teams and even though we know that most of you who are listening to that most of you who are listening to that most of you who are listening to this podcast are in the communications this podcast are in the communications this podcast are in the communications space we still think that it's important space we still think that it's important space we still think that it's important that you leverage Volunteers in your that you leverage Volunteers in your that you leverage Volunteers in your ministry it's not a natural thing that ministry it's not a natural thing that ministry it's not a natural thing that we often do but you know what if we if a we often do but you know what if we if a we often do but you know what if we if a church hires a children's ministry church hires a children's ministry church hires a children's ministry director or Pastor or student Ministry director or Pastor or student Ministry director or Pastor or student Ministry director or Pastor or an Outreach director or Pastor or an Outreach director or Pastor or an Outreach Ministry director or Pastor there's Ministry director or Pastor there's Ministry director or Pastor there's going to be an expectation that those going to be an expectation that those going to be an expectation that those people would build teams if you are a people would build teams if you are a people would build teams if you are a communications director or a communications director or a communications director or a Communications Pastor you should also Communications Pastor you should also Communications Pastor you should also probably build a team doesn't mean that

probably build a team doesn't mean that probably build a team doesn't mean that you have to have as big a team as maybe you have to have as big a team as maybe you have to have as big a team as maybe the children's ministry team is but you the children's ministry team is but you the children's ministry team is but you could certainly find some people that could certainly find some people that could certainly find some people that could use their gifts and their talents could use their gifts and their talents could use their gifts and their talents and their experiences to help your and their experiences to help your and their experiences to help your communication efforts in your church be communication efforts in your church be communication efforts in your church be stronger and we just want to encourage stronger and we just want to encourage stronger and we just want to encourage you in that and so I think that you're you in that and so I think that you're you in that and so I think that you're going to learn a ton from Dan in this going to learn a ton from Dan in this going to learn a ton from Dan in this podcast episode today uh like I said he podcast episode today uh like I said he podcast episode today uh like I said he is just like he's like a a bottomless is just like he's like a a bottomless is just like he's like a a bottomless pit of knowledge and information and pit of knowledge and information and pit of knowledge and information and wisdom and Leadership the guy's amazing wisdom and Leadership the guy's amazing wisdom and Leadership the guy's amazing I hold him in super high regard I hold him in super high regard I hold him in super high regard um I've got you see my guitar stuff on um I've got you see my guitar stuff on um I've got you see my guitar stuff on the wall back here like Dan has a guitar the wall back here like Dan has a guitar the wall back here like Dan has a guitar collection too that puts most people to collection too that puts most people to collection too that puts most people to shame he's got a lot of guitars although shame he's got a lot of guitars although shame he's got a lot of guitars although we didn't talk about this in episode I I we didn't talk about this in episode I I we didn't talk about this in episode I I know this about Dan he's got a lot of know this about Dan he's got a lot of know this about Dan he's got a lot of guitars he's totally into his guitars guitars he's totally into his guitars guitars he's totally into his guitars that has nothing to do with this week's that has nothing to do with this week's that has nothing to do with this week's episode episode episode um so I'm just going to stop rambling um so I'm just going to stop rambling um so I'm just going to stop rambling and I'm going to turn things over to uh and I'm going to turn things over to uh and I'm going to turn things over to uh Jason Hamrock the CEO of missional Jason Hamrock the CEO of missional Jason Hamrock the CEO of missional marketing and our conversation with Dan marketing and our conversation with Dan marketing and our conversation with Dan Ryland about how to build a strong Ryland about how to build a strong Ryland about how to build a strong volunteer team for your church here's volunteer team for your church here's volunteer team for your church here's our interview our interview our interview hi Dan welcome to the show how you've hi Dan welcome to the show how you've hi Dan welcome to the show how you've been been been good Bart uh it's been a little bit a good Bart uh it's been a little bit a good Bart uh it's been a little bit a little while Bart and Jason I should say little while Bart and Jason I should say little while Bart and Jason I should say but I'm doing great but I'm doing great but I'm doing great um probably the biggest thing since um probably the biggest thing since um probably the biggest thing since we've last connected is my daughter who we've last connected is my daughter who we've last connected is my daughter who has a three-year-old my three-year-old has a three-year-old my three-year-old has a three-year-old my three-year-old granddaughter Enzo who we love also gave granddaughter Enzo who we love also gave granddaughter Enzo who we love also gave recently recently gave birth to recently recently gave birth to recently recently gave birth to identical twin boys so we are having a

identical twin boys so we are having a identical twin boys so we are having a blast the family joke is when we're blast the family joke is when we're blast the family joke is when we're honest we can't tell them apart honest we can't tell them apart honest we can't tell them apart oh congratulations Grandpa thank you oh congratulations Grandpa thank you oh congratulations Grandpa thank you thank you yeah oh wow wow that's that's thank you yeah oh wow wow that's that's thank you yeah oh wow wow that's that's life-changing yeah you go from one to life-changing yeah you go from one to life-changing yeah you go from one to three wow three wow three wow and she has now McKenzie now has three and she has now McKenzie now has three and she has now McKenzie now has three under three and I'm telling you she's under three and I'm telling you she's under three and I'm telling you she's tough I mean feeding two waking two tough I mean feeding two waking two tough I mean feeding two waking two changing to chasing two I mean it's changing to chasing two I mean it's changing to chasing two I mean it's they're seven months old now and oh my they're seven months old now and oh my they're seven months old now and oh my gosh gosh gosh wow the beauty of being a I'm Papa you wow the beauty of being a I'm Papa you wow the beauty of being a I'm Papa you know the beauty of the papa is you hand know the beauty of the papa is you hand know the beauty of the papa is you hand them back and see ya shake them up a them back and see ya shake them up a them back and see ya shake them up a little bit that's awesome well thanks for for being that's awesome well thanks for for being on the show yeah you've been on before on the show yeah you've been on before on the show yeah you've been on before just really love leaning into your just really love leaning into your just really love leaning into your wisdom and your advice and your years of wisdom and your advice and your years of wisdom and your advice and your years of experience in Ministry so I'm excited experience in Ministry so I'm excited experience in Ministry so I'm excited about our our topic today because you about our our topic today because you about our our topic today because you have been around for for a minute I have been around for for a minute I have been around for for a minute I think or two yeah so yeah I think I think or two yeah so yeah I think I think or two yeah so yeah I think I started in the Jurassic era started in the Jurassic era started in the Jurassic era fortunately I still have a lot of life fortunately I still have a lot of life fortunately I still have a lot of life and energy in me and and they're letting and energy in me and and they're letting and energy in me and and they're letting me still be in the game so I'm gonna me still be in the game so I'm gonna me still be in the game so I'm gonna stay in as long as they let me stay in as long as they let me stay in as long as they let me absolutely absolutely so uh for for our absolutely absolutely so uh for for our absolutely absolutely so uh for for our our listeners just give a little bit of our listeners just give a little bit of our listeners just give a little bit of background your story and kind of your background your story and kind of your background your story and kind of your overview of all the different paths overview of all the different paths overview of all the different paths you've worn in Ministry sure sure well you've worn in Ministry sure sure well you've worn in Ministry sure sure well staying on the personal side that's a staying on the personal side that's a staying on the personal side that's a good heart connect been married 42 years good heart connect been married 42 years good heart connect been married 42 years um my lovely wife Patty who everybody um my lovely wife Patty who everybody um my lovely wife Patty who everybody loves they tolerate me they love her loves they tolerate me they love her loves they tolerate me they love her yeah and uh two grown children uh I've

yeah and uh two grown children uh I've yeah and uh two grown children uh I've just mentioned my grandkids so that's just mentioned my grandkids so that's just mentioned my grandkids so that's good matching number of years 42 years good matching number of years 42 years good matching number of years 42 years in Ministry I started when I was 12. in Ministry I started when I was 12. in Ministry I started when I was 12. right right yeah that's right yeah to right right yeah that's right yeah to right right yeah that's right yeah to your question uh I've been a executive your question uh I've been a executive your question uh I've been a executive Pastor basically about 20 years for John Pastor basically about 20 years for John Pastor basically about 20 years for John Maxwell in 20 years for Kevin Myers Maxwell in 20 years for Kevin Myers Maxwell in 20 years for Kevin Myers um and in the middle they're a little um and in the middle they're a little um and in the middle they're a little bit of overlap with with John the enjoy bit of overlap with with John the enjoy bit of overlap with with John the enjoy days traveling the country you know the days traveling the country you know the days traveling the country you know the cassette tapes you know you but just you know a whole host of but just you know a whole host of teaching writing coaching churches teaching writing coaching churches teaching writing coaching churches around the country still get to do that around the country still get to do that around the country still get to do that but my primary second chair role for but my primary second chair role for but my primary second chair role for decades has been executive pastor and of decades has been executive pastor and of decades has been executive pastor and of course you know what that is the leading course you know what that is the leading course you know what that is the leading staff Ministry architecture leadership staff Ministry architecture leadership staff Ministry architecture leadership development uh it's just a fully orbed development uh it's just a fully orbed development uh it's just a fully orbed connection to the church bottom line I connection to the church bottom line I connection to the church bottom line I love the church I'm called and I'm still love the church I'm called and I'm still love the church I'm called and I'm still having a blast having a blast having a blast praise God for that and let's hope it praise God for that and let's hope it praise God for that and let's hope it keeps going on because you bring a lot keeps going on because you bring a lot keeps going on because you bring a lot to the to the table to the to the table to the to the table so the topic I we kind of want to dive so the topic I we kind of want to dive so the topic I we kind of want to dive into today is and there's been a lot of into today is and there's been a lot of into today is and there's been a lot of conversation a lot of noise around this conversation a lot of noise around this conversation a lot of noise around this and that is you know building and and that is you know building and and that is you know building and engaging a volunteer team and uh so you engaging a volunteer team and uh so you engaging a volunteer team and uh so you recently wrote a blog post about it and recently wrote a blog post about it and recently wrote a blog post about it and uh why there's a lot to that that blog uh why there's a lot to that that blog uh why there's a lot to that that blog post we want to kind of dive into but post we want to kind of dive into but post we want to kind of dive into but why is why is why is volunteer teams considered a felt need

volunteer teams considered a felt need volunteer teams considered a felt need for the local church yeah it really is for the local church yeah it really is for the local church yeah it really is uh Bart in a big way I think I think uh Bart in a big way I think I think uh Bart in a big way I think I think we're post covet I I try not to be the we're post covet I I try not to be the we're post covet I I try not to be the guy talking about covet all the time guy talking about covet all the time guy talking about covet all the time well I think we're post called then well I think we're post called then well I think we're post called then churches are growing again it's healthy churches are growing again it's healthy churches are growing again it's healthy there's great need in America in North there's great need in America in North there's great need in America in North America in particular but the effects of America in particular but the effects of America in particular but the effects of it are still real it are still real it are still real uh I don't know a church that doesn't uh I don't know a church that doesn't uh I don't know a church that doesn't feel the the pressure when you consider feel the the pressure when you consider feel the the pressure when you consider the things that have transpired the things that have transpired the things that have transpired um things like you know church and um things like you know church and um things like you know church and church cultures changed uh people view church cultures changed uh people view church cultures changed uh people view their time differently post pandemic their time differently post pandemic their time differently post pandemic um habits have changed we all know that um habits have changed we all know that um habits have changed we all know that church is more an option than a church is more an option than a church is more an option than a lifestyle hybrid Church good thing but lifestyle hybrid Church good thing but lifestyle hybrid Church good thing but it has changed everything families are it has changed everything families are it has changed everything families are busier than ever travel ball but we get busier than ever travel ball but we get busier than ever travel ball but we get it it it um I think Christian culture um I think Christian culture um I think Christian culture has adapted to that hybrid format we has adapted to that hybrid format we has adapted to that hybrid format we were so good at it they go we like it were so good at it they go we like it were so good at it they go we like it and so when you when you translate that and so when you when you translate that and so when you when you translate that to the new and I don't know really what to the new and I don't know really what to the new and I don't know really what the actual number is 1.7 times a month the actual number is 1.7 times a month the actual number is 1.7 times a month 1.4 times a month whatever it is we know 1.4 times a month whatever it is we know 1.4 times a month whatever it is we know it's less it's less it's less um you just you don't you don't have to um you just you don't you don't have to um you just you don't you don't have to do anything more than the math to do anything more than the math to do anything more than the math to realize you've got to have two a minimum realize you've got to have two a minimum realize you've got to have two a minimum of two to three times the volunteers to of two to three times the volunteers to of two to three times the volunteers to put them into teams to cover the put them into teams to cover the put them into teams to cover the rotation as rotation as rotation as 2019 and before 2019 and before 2019 and before that's the pressure that's the pressure that's the pressure yeah so because it does become kind of a

yeah so because it does become kind of a yeah so because it does become kind of a felt need because you're you're dealing felt need because you're you're dealing felt need because you're you're dealing you're telling people who are super busy you're telling people who are super busy you're telling people who are super busy yet you need those volunteers to to you yet you need those volunteers to to you yet you need those volunteers to to you know make the show happen so to speak know make the show happen so to speak know make the show happen so to speak right right and you know and you don't right right and you know and you don't right right and you know and you don't want to fall under the traps and the want to fall under the traps and the want to fall under the traps and the things you don't want to do and making things you don't want to do and making things you don't want to do and making them numbers and just you know filling them numbers and just you know filling them numbers and just you know filling spots and so it's I don't want to spots and so it's I don't want to spots and so it's I don't want to oversimplify because culture is oversimplify because culture is oversimplify because culture is different the church is different we different the church is different we different the church is different we feel things different you see things feel things different you see things feel things different you see things different but but in some ways you could different but but in some ways you could different but but in some ways you could oversimplify and just say the need is oversimplify and just say the need is oversimplify and just say the need is the pressure's Rising because the need the pressure's Rising because the need the pressure's Rising because the need is greater because you need at least is greater because you need at least is greater because you need at least twice as many and that by itself is a twice as many and that by itself is a twice as many and that by itself is a game changer that's that's to answer game changer that's that's to answer game changer that's that's to answer your question that's why there's such a your question that's why there's such a your question that's why there's such a felt need yeah okay all right so I want felt need yeah okay all right so I want felt need yeah okay all right so I want to dive into some points because and I to dive into some points because and I to dive into some points because and I want to make sure I make the statement want to make sure I make the statement want to make sure I make the statement that a lot of our listeners are in the that a lot of our listeners are in the that a lot of our listeners are in the communications you know Department uh communications you know Department uh communications you know Department uh not not not not not not specifically only that but a lot of them specifically only that but a lot of them specifically only that but a lot of them are so you might think to yourself as a are so you might think to yourself as a are so you might think to yourself as a com director well I don't really need com director well I don't really need com director well I don't really need volunteers that's that's for children's volunteers that's that's for children's volunteers that's that's for children's ministry or whatnot and that would be ministry or whatnot and that would be ministry or whatnot and that would be further from the truth that you further from the truth that you further from the truth that you shouldn't be thinking that at all right shouldn't be thinking that at all right shouldn't be thinking that at all right that's that's a myth you you want to that's that's a myth you you want to that's that's a myth you you want to engage volunteers and my biggest take on engage volunteers and my biggest take on engage volunteers and my biggest take on that is because God has gifted people in that is because God has gifted people in that is because God has gifted people in your congregation with tools that you your congregation with tools that you your congregation with tools that you can tap into can tap into can tap into and so from that lens I would like to and so from that lens I would like to and so from that lens I would like to kind of dive into the there's five kind of dive into the there's five kind of dive into the there's five uh points that you make and and you're uh points that you make and and you're uh points that you make and and you're in your in your article and so if we in your in your article and so if we in your in your article and so if we wouldn't mind let's just go three wouldn't mind let's just go three wouldn't mind let's just go three twenties because I think these are twenties because I think these are twenties because I think these are really relevant for obviously people really relevant for obviously people really relevant for obviously people that are in the you know the ministry that are in the you know the ministry that are in the you know the ministry side but people that are in the

side but people that are in the side but people that are in the operation side absolutely and in on the operation side absolutely and in on the operation side absolutely and in on the calm part as well or creative or Tech calm part as well or creative or Tech calm part as well or creative or Tech um sometimes I think going going back to um sometimes I think going going back to um sometimes I think going going back to just the number sometimes certain teams just the number sometimes certain teams just the number sometimes certain teams and departments think you know that's and departments think you know that's and departments think you know that's not really my thing I don't really need not really my thing I don't really need not really my thing I don't really need to go that route I remember having a to go that route I remember having a to go that route I remember having a conversation with somebody in uh in the conversation with somebody in uh in the conversation with somebody in uh in the the and you know the MD the music the the and you know the MD the music the the and you know the MD the music the music development part of uh of the music development part of uh of the music development part of uh of the church and Studio work and all the church and Studio work and all the church and Studio work and all the musicians and they said you know I I musicians and they said you know I I musicians and they said you know I I can't I can't I can't even have can't I can't I can't even have can't I can't I can't even have a volunteer because what I do is way too a volunteer because what I do is way too a volunteer because what I do is way too technical you talk about you know 20 and technical you talk about you know 20 and technical you talk about you know 20 and 30 and 40 and 50 and 100 volunteers he 30 and 40 and 50 and 100 volunteers he 30 and 40 and 50 and 100 volunteers he said I'd be lucky to have once one who said I'd be lucky to have once one who said I'd be lucky to have once one who could do it I do it I said stop stop could do it I do it I said stop stop could do it I do it I said stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop then get one then get one then get one [Music] [Music] [Music] you're you're right you're right they're you're you're right you're right they're you're you're right you're right they're super technical they're Uber skilled but super technical they're Uber skilled but super technical they're Uber skilled but we would never want you to have 12. if we would never want you to have 12. if we would never want you to have 12. if you had one as a game changer two is you had one as a game changer two is you had one as a game changer two is like Nirvana that's an old word so I like Nirvana that's an old word so I like Nirvana that's an old word so I just want to encourage as well for those just want to encourage as well for those just want to encourage as well for those who might not feel like it's your deal who might not feel like it's your deal who might not feel like it's your deal or a thing even in even support Fields or a thing even in even support Fields or a thing even in even support Fields sure it is you just need maybe a more sure it is you just need maybe a more sure it is you just need maybe a more technical skill and there's less of them technical skill and there's less of them technical skill and there's less of them that's okay that's okay that's okay yeah yes yes so through that lens yeah yeah yes yes so through that lens yeah yeah yes yes so through that lens yeah let's go through these five the first let's go through these five the first let's go through these five the first one is one is one is uh the key points is start with a vision uh the key points is start with a vision uh the key points is start with a vision based uh invitation what what do you

based uh invitation what what do you based uh invitation what what do you mean by that yeah uh I think on this one mean by that yeah uh I think on this one mean by that yeah uh I think on this one the vision-based invitation is I think the vision-based invitation is I think the vision-based invitation is I think it starts leadership always starts it starts leadership always starts it starts leadership always starts internally and we have to do our best to internally and we have to do our best to internally and we have to do our best to not allow pressure to get the best of us not allow pressure to get the best of us not allow pressure to get the best of us and pressure you know and so time and and pressure you know and so time and and pressure you know and so time and you know I call it patient pressure or you know I call it patient pressure or you know I call it patient pressure or speed and pressure that often squeezes speed and pressure that often squeezes speed and pressure that often squeezes out of the margins our ability to love out of the margins our ability to love out of the margins our ability to love and care for the people and so it goes and care for the people and so it goes and care for the people and so it goes task it can it goes task oriented task it can it goes task oriented task it can it goes task oriented quickly and when you go task oriented quickly and when you go task oriented quickly and when you go task oriented vision's gone expediency wins the day vision's gone expediency wins the day vision's gone expediency wins the day and and and then you stop doing the and and and then you stop doing the and and and then you stop doing the things that help you be Vision based and things that help you be Vision based and things that help you be Vision based and caring about the people which is you caring about the people which is you caring about the people which is you know you always want to want more for know you always want to want more for know you always want to want more for the people than from the people that's the people than from the people that's the people than from the people that's that's where it starts because it's not that's where it starts because it's not that's where it starts because it's not about you and not about them in a sense about you and not about them in a sense about you and not about them in a sense it's about the bigger vision and and it's about the bigger vision and and it's about the bigger vision and and again watching to be careful that you're again watching to be careful that you're again watching to be careful that you're not desperate because that that pressure not desperate because that that pressure not desperate because that that pressure will leak will leak will leak so here's the big picture I think I went so here's the big picture I think I went so here's the big picture I think I went off in the wood there for a second part off in the wood there for a second part off in the wood there for a second part but there's the big picture to that idea but there's the big picture to that idea but there's the big picture to that idea is a vision-based invitation is a vision-based invitation is a vision-based invitation invites people to participate in invites people to participate in invites people to participate in something larger something larger something larger than they could create or Envision on than they could create or Envision on than they could create or Envision on their own their own their own that's a big deal that's a great that's that's a big deal that's a great that's that's a big deal that's a great that's a great invitation like come be part of a great invitation like come be part of a great invitation like come be part of something that's bigger than you bigger something that's bigger than you bigger something that's bigger than you bigger than me bigger than us and join in on it than me bigger than us and join in on it than me bigger than us and join in on it and and that starts with a vision it's and and that starts with a vision it's and and that starts with a vision it's I'll stop there there's another there I'll stop there there's another there I'll stop there there's another there are some little sub points I would add are some little sub points I would add are some little sub points I would add in but let me stop there for a second in but let me stop there for a second in but let me stop there for a second yeah let me uh let me share something

yeah let me uh let me share something yeah let me uh let me share something with you I actually I heard this quote with you I actually I heard this quote with you I actually I heard this quote this morning and I texted it to myself this morning and I texted it to myself this morning and I texted it to myself so I'm literally going to read it off my so I'm literally going to read it off my so I'm literally going to read it off my phone phone phone um and I think it's appropriate for this um and I think it's appropriate for this um and I think it's appropriate for this part of our conversation it's said by part of our conversation it's said by part of our conversation it's said by some person named Antoine Day Saint X some person named Antoine Day Saint X some person named Antoine Day Saint X pueri I have no idea how to pronounce pueri I have no idea how to pronounce pueri I have no idea how to pronounce this person's name you know you see this person's name you know you see this person's name you know you see you're smart and you know who this you're smart and you know who this you're smart and you know who this person is this is what he said if you person is this is what he said if you person is this is what he said if you want to build a ship Don't drum up want to build a ship Don't drum up want to build a ship Don't drum up people to collect wood and don't and people to collect wood and don't and people to collect wood and don't and sign them tasks and work but rather sign them tasks and work but rather sign them tasks and work but rather teach them to long for the endless teach them to long for the endless teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea I love that isn't immensity of the sea I love that isn't immensity of the sea I love that isn't that awesome that awesome that awesome that's so good that's so good create a that's so good that's so good create a that's so good that's so good create a longing you know I think I think as as longing you know I think I think as as longing you know I think I think as as as church leaders this is so critical is as church leaders this is so critical is as church leaders this is so critical is that we do often see the spreadsheet of that we do often see the spreadsheet of that we do often see the spreadsheet of roles and responsibilities that we need roles and responsibilities that we need roles and responsibilities that we need to fill but beyond that is the to fill but beyond that is the to fill but beyond that is the opportunity to invite people into opportunity to invite people into opportunity to invite people into helping the church accomplish its helping the church accomplish its helping the church accomplish its Mission and people uh there's another Mission and people uh there's another Mission and people uh there's another famous leader that I I once heard famous leader that I I once heard famous leader that I I once heard talking about vision and he said you talking about vision and he said you talking about vision and he said you know people need to see themselves in know people need to see themselves in know people need to see themselves in the future and they need to like what the future and they need to like what the future and they need to like what they see and so as your casting vision they see and so as your casting vision they see and so as your casting vision for people uh you need to cast a vision for people uh you need to cast a vision for people uh you need to cast a vision they need to see themselves in that they need to see themselves in that they need to see themselves in that future and they need to like what they future and they need to like what they future and they need to like what they see and so that's a big part I think of see and so that's a big part I think of see and so that's a big part I think of of rallying volunteers to be more than of rallying volunteers to be more than of rallying volunteers to be more than just bodies that are checking in on just bodies that are checking in on just bodies that are checking in on Planning Center because I'm scheduled Planning Center because I'm scheduled Planning Center because I'm scheduled this week to hold this door or to pour this week to hold this door or to pour this week to hold this door or to pour this coffee or to lead this small group

this coffee or to lead this small group this coffee or to lead this small group in children's ministry or what have you in children's ministry or what have you in children's ministry or what have you but people who get how their but people who get how their but people who get how their participation really helps the church participation really helps the church participation really helps the church accomplish it's Mission and fulfill its accomplish it's Mission and fulfill its accomplish it's Mission and fulfill its vision for the future absolutely and you vision for the future absolutely and you vision for the future absolutely and you said it so well so poetically I mean it said it so well so poetically I mean it said it so well so poetically I mean it was great and I think that that was great and I think that that was great and I think that that practical translation is is you know you practical translation is is you know you practical translation is is you know you never start recruiting I'll use that never start recruiting I'll use that never start recruiting I'll use that word but let me qualify that in a second word but let me qualify that in a second word but let me qualify that in a second that's not always a great word you ever that's not always a great word you ever that's not always a great word you ever start recruiting with a job description start recruiting with a job description start recruiting with a job description or a task it's just what it's just what or a task it's just what it's just what or a task it's just what it's just what you said Jason it's a it's a vision it's you said Jason it's a it's a vision it's you said Jason it's a it's a vision it's something bigger than you it's a something bigger than you it's a something bigger than you it's a preferred future I think I think I preferred future I think I think I preferred future I think I think I should make a comment on recruiting I should make a comment on recruiting I should make a comment on recruiting I might use the word inviting that's a might use the word inviting that's a might use the word inviting that's a better word I still like to throw in better word I still like to throw in better word I still like to throw in recruiting Because that's the honest recruiting Because that's the honest recruiting Because that's the honest word but I I realize that's not word but I I realize that's not word but I I realize that's not acceptable it's kind of an old word you acceptable it's kind of an old word you acceptable it's kind of an old word you know but I like it I think some leaders know but I like it I think some leaders know but I like it I think some leaders like it because it's honest and it and like it because it's honest and it and like it because it's honest and it and it assumes you're closing you're not it assumes you're closing you're not it assumes you're closing you're not going hey you know come join us if you going hey you know come join us if you going hey you know come join us if you feel like it whatever you know it's feel like it whatever you know it's feel like it whatever you know it's really like no God's got a place for you really like no God's got a place for you really like no God's got a place for you we want you we'd love to see you step we want you we'd love to see you step we want you we'd love to see you step into it now agenda but God's agenda for into it now agenda but God's agenda for into it now agenda but God's agenda for you and that's when it becomes big when you and that's when it becomes big when you and that's when it becomes big when it's the vision it's about what God has it's the vision it's about what God has it's the vision it's about what God has for them all of those things combined for them all of those things combined for them all of those things combined well that's the that's the second point well that's the that's the second point well that's the that's the second point then is to be aware of any potential then is to be aware of any potential then is to be aware of any potential hindrances to recruiting so hindrances to recruiting so hindrances to recruiting so give us a couple what does that mean and give us a couple what does that mean and give us a couple what does that mean and what would those be what would those be what would those be there's a lot I think I've made all the

there's a lot I think I've made all the there's a lot I think I've made all the mistakes over over many years and and mistakes over over many years and and mistakes over over many years and and and and and um uh but I think I think well here's um uh but I think I think well here's um uh but I think I think well here's the one that that I have fallen uh the one that that I have fallen uh the one that that I have fallen uh guilty of many many times is guilty of many many times is guilty of many many times is I think oh they're so busy I don't want I think oh they're so busy I don't want I think oh they're so busy I don't want to bother them and and to bother them and and to bother them and and I'm robbing them and I've had to learn I'm robbing them and I've had to learn I'm robbing them and I've had to learn over the years I'm robbing them of of a over the years I'm robbing them of of a over the years I'm robbing them of of a of an invitation I'm robbing them of of an invitation I'm robbing them of of an invitation I'm robbing them of something God's designed and I had to something God's designed and I had to something God's designed and I had to sort of get over bothering them they're sort of get over bothering them they're sort of get over bothering them they're not I'm not bothering them at all and if not I'm not bothering them at all and if not I'm not bothering them at all and if if I do it in a grace-filled way a if I do it in a grace-filled way a if I do it in a grace-filled way a gracious way an inviting way uh an gracious way an inviting way uh an gracious way an inviting way uh an attractive way they have their freedom attractive way they have their freedom attractive way they have their freedom to say no I I had to learn to let them to say no I I had to learn to let them to say no I I had to learn to let them say no how silly was I that I was saying say no how silly was I that I was saying say no how silly was I that I was saying no for them yeah by by saying I don't no for them yeah by by saying I don't no for them yeah by by saying I don't want to bother them another one is want to bother them another one is want to bother them another one is failing to see their potential and I'm failing to see their potential and I'm failing to see their potential and I'm probably stronger than that one I do I probably stronger than that one I do I probably stronger than that one I do I think I do see people's potential but think I do see people's potential but think I do see people's potential but but some of the listeners might they but some of the listeners might they but some of the listeners might they might they might size them up you know might they might size them up you know might they might size them up you know judge a book by the cover they might judge a book by the cover they might judge a book by the cover they might kind of miss something there because kind of miss something there because kind of miss something there because they didn't see the potential that comes they didn't see the potential that comes they didn't see the potential that comes from training or some who have been very from training or some who have been very from training or some who have been very honest about insecurities another one honest about insecurities another one honest about insecurities another one would be a fear of being turned down would be a fear of being turned down would be a fear of being turned down they just they just don't want to be they just they just don't want to be they just they just don't want to be turned down I think a couple more this turned down I think a couple more this turned down I think a couple more this one is a little bit of an indictment on one is a little bit of an indictment on one is a little bit of an indictment on some of us but let's just be honest with some of us but let's just be honest with some of us but let's just be honest with it is that pattern or the history of it is that pattern or the history of it is that pattern or the history of invite and abandon invite and abandon invite and abandon I think sometimes we bring them in they

I think sometimes we bring them in they I think sometimes we bring them in they say yes we sign them up we say here you say yes we sign them up we say here you say yes we sign them up we say here you go and we're gone and and it's not I go and we're gone and and it's not I go and we're gone and and it's not I don't mean it to indict something like don't mean it to indict something like don't mean it to indict something like from the Dark Side it's because they're from the Dark Side it's because they're from the Dark Side it's because they're so leaders so busy they run to the next so leaders so busy they run to the next so leaders so busy they run to the next but that's why there's you know systems but that's why there's you know systems but that's why there's you know systems and different things in place to help us and different things in place to help us and different things in place to help us make sure we're caring for the team I'll make sure we're caring for the team I'll make sure we're caring for the team I'll give one more uh inviting or recruiting give one more uh inviting or recruiting give one more uh inviting or recruiting or I like discovering helping people or I like discovering helping people or I like discovering helping people discover their place on the team the discover their place on the team the discover their place on the team the same people over and over again because same people over and over again because same people over and over again because they're easy and they say yes they're easy and they say yes they're easy and they say yes and we really there's plenty of people and we really there's plenty of people and we really there's plenty of people out there we just need to go ask them to out there we just need to go ask them to out there we just need to go ask them to allow us to come alongside and help them allow us to come alongside and help them allow us to come alongside and help them discover what God's got in mind hey Bart discover what God's got in mind hey Bart discover what God's got in mind hey Bart Blair here I'm the producer of missional Blair here I'm the producer of missional Blair here I'm the producer of missional marketing's church growth interviews marketing's church growth interviews marketing's church growth interviews podcast thanks so much for tuning in podcast thanks so much for tuning in podcast thanks so much for tuning in additional marketing we're passionate additional marketing we're passionate additional marketing we're passionate about helping churches reach more people about helping churches reach more people about helping churches reach more people for Jesus online and one of the ways for Jesus online and one of the ways for Jesus online and one of the ways that we do that is by helping churches that we do that is by helping churches that we do that is by helping churches acquire more new visitors to their acquire more new visitors to their acquire more new visitors to their website utilizing the Google ad Grant website utilizing the Google ad Grant website utilizing the Google ad Grant Google offers qualifying non-profits Google offers qualifying non-profits Google offers qualifying non-profits including churches up to ten thousand including churches up to ten thousand including churches up to ten thousand dollars a month in advertising that dollars a month in advertising that dollars a month in advertising that means that you as a church could be means that you as a church could be means that you as a church could be using Google as one of your primary using Google as one of your primary using Google as one of your primary digital Outreach strategies to digital Outreach strategies to digital Outreach strategies to communicate the gospel and reach more communicate the gospel and reach more communicate the gospel and reach more people in your community if you'd like people in your community if you'd like people in your community if you'd like to learn more visit our website to learn more visit our website to learn more visit our website admissionalmarketing.com and click the admissionalmarketing.com and click the admissionalmarketing.com and click the link at the top of the page that says link at the top of the page that says link at the top of the page that says Google Grant we'd love an opportunity to Google Grant we'd love an opportunity to Google Grant we'd love an opportunity to partner with you in your mission to partner with you in your mission to partner with you in your mission to build God's kingdom here on Earth well build God's kingdom here on Earth well build God's kingdom here on Earth well thanks again for listening to our thanks again for listening to our thanks again for listening to our podcast and now back to the show

podcast and now back to the show podcast and now back to the show you said just a second ago there though you said just a second ago there though you said just a second ago there though it's like easy to like set it and forget it's like easy to like set it and forget it's like easy to like set it and forget it almost as a leader like yeah so your it almost as a leader like yeah so your it almost as a leader like yeah so your your third one is make a personal your third one is make a personal your third one is make a personal investment I'm I'm kind of guessing investment I'm I'm kind of guessing investment I'm I'm kind of guessing that's into the people yes absolutely that's into the people yes absolutely that's into the people yes absolutely absolutely and I think there's a process absolutely and I think there's a process absolutely and I think there's a process both in the process of having somebody both in the process of having somebody both in the process of having somebody discover and join a team uh and then discover and join a team uh and then discover and join a team uh and then when they're in there and then when when they're in there and then when when they're in there and then when they're getting on the team and then they're getting on the team and then they're getting on the team and then staying in there's really three you know staying in there's really three you know staying in there's really three you know specific kinds of Investments the specific kinds of Investments the specific kinds of Investments the investment to pour enough time into them investment to pour enough time into them investment to pour enough time into them to get to know them to get to know them to get to know them to care about them as an individual to to care about them as an individual to to care about them as an individual to uh uh and then actually you know what uh uh and then actually you know what uh uh and then actually you know what you might call for a staff member you might call for a staff member you might call for a staff member onboarding or you have to onboard onboarding or you have to onboard onboarding or you have to onboard everybody you know and to do that in a everybody you know and to do that in a everybody you know and to do that in a in a legitimate fulfilling uh you know in a legitimate fulfilling uh you know in a legitimate fulfilling uh you know it covers all the bases right and then it covers all the bases right and then it covers all the bases right and then there's ongoing training so there is a there's ongoing training so there is a there's ongoing training so there is a personal investment it takes time they personal investment it takes time they personal investment it takes time they need to know you care and that's where need to know you care and that's where need to know you care and that's where it starts on a side note how often like if you had on a side note how often like if you had to tell your one of your staff people to tell your one of your staff people to tell your one of your staff people that that lean on volunteers a lot what that that lean on volunteers a lot what that that lean on volunteers a lot what would you say how much time should they would you say how much time should they would you say how much time should they spend investing into Volunteers versus spend investing into Volunteers versus spend investing into Volunteers versus actually programming actually programming actually programming that's a tough question to answer Bart that's a tough question to answer Bart that's a tough question to answer Bart because I I think you there's a because I I think you there's a because I I think you there's a cumulative effect on two sides of the cumulative effect on two sides of the cumulative effect on two sides of the spectrum one is spectrum one is spectrum one is um the cumulative it's almost like a um the cumulative it's almost like a um the cumulative it's almost like a bank account the longer you put invest

bank account the longer you put invest bank account the longer you put invest it in the more that time multiplies and it in the more that time multiplies and it in the more that time multiplies and you don't have to spend as much time you don't have to spend as much time you don't have to spend as much time they know you they trust you there's a they know you they trust you there's a they know you they trust you there's a bank account there's a relational Equity bank account there's a relational Equity bank account there's a relational Equity that's established that's that's from us that's established that's that's from us that's established that's that's from us to them and then from I don't want to to them and then from I don't want to to them and then from I don't want to say then uh that sounds terrible but the say then uh that sounds terrible but the say then uh that sounds terrible but the investment of time up front can diminish investment of time up front can diminish investment of time up front can diminish some uh because of that Equity that's some uh because of that Equity that's some uh because of that Equity that's developed on the other side uh it's developed on the other side uh it's developed on the other side uh it's their level of maturity as they mature their level of maturity as they mature their level of maturity as they mature as they understand as they as they as they understand as they as they as they understand as they as they realize it's not all about me someone realize it's not all about me someone realize it's not all about me someone doesn't have to be by me all the time at doesn't have to be by me all the time at doesn't have to be by me all the time at some point I'm going to go uh find and some point I'm going to go uh find and some point I'm going to go uh find and help other people join the team between help other people join the team between help other people join the team between the two of those the level of time is the two of those the level of time is the two of those the level of time is still there it still has to be kept up still there it still has to be kept up still there it still has to be kept up but it's the the points of contact can but it's the the points of contact can but it's the the points of contact can be briefer and farther apart and still be briefer and farther apart and still be briefer and farther apart and still just as meaningful you know years down just as meaningful you know years down just as meaningful you know years down the months and years down the road where the months and years down the road where the months and years down the road where up front the investment is pretty hefty up front the investment is pretty hefty up front the investment is pretty hefty I don't know that I can give or actually I don't know that I can give or actually I don't know that I can give or actually a formula because every Everybody every a formula because every Everybody every a formula because every Everybody every church is different but but it's more up church is different but but it's more up church is different but but it's more up front for sure front for sure front for sure we just recently you know I mentioned I we just recently you know I mentioned I we just recently you know I mentioned I think before we started recording that think before we started recording that think before we started recording that we'd recently uh interviewed a friend of we'd recently uh interviewed a friend of we'd recently uh interviewed a friend of ours named Marianne Sibley who coaches ours named Marianne Sibley who coaches ours named Marianne Sibley who coaches churches and and works with them to help churches and and works with them to help churches and and works with them to help develop their their volunteer teams and develop their their volunteer teams and develop their their volunteer teams and one of the things that she really has a one of the things that she really has a one of the things that she really has a heart for making sure that churches do heart for making sure that churches do heart for making sure that churches do is that volunteer leaders those that are is that volunteer leaders those that are is that volunteer leaders those that are leading leading leading see their role as being more than just a

see their role as being more than just a see their role as being more than just a get the task done leader but to see get the task done leader but to see get the task done leader but to see people actually growing in their faith people actually growing in their faith people actually growing in their faith Journey the re As Leaders The reason we Journey the re As Leaders The reason we Journey the re As Leaders The reason we should want people serving in our church should want people serving in our church should want people serving in our church is not just to help us get the job done is not just to help us get the job done is not just to help us get the job done because it's good for them to be using because it's good for them to be using because it's good for them to be using their gifts and their talents in the their gifts and their talents in the their gifts and their talents in the context of ministry I mean that's the context of ministry I mean that's the context of ministry I mean that's the way that God has has wired us and made way that God has has wired us and made way that God has has wired us and made us and so as a leader of volunteers us and so as a leader of volunteers us and so as a leader of volunteers whether you're a staff member leading whether you're a staff member leading whether you're a staff member leading volunteers or you're a volunteer volunteers or you're a volunteer volunteers or you're a volunteer yourself leading other volunteers yourself leading other volunteers yourself leading other volunteers there's a shepherding responsibility a there's a shepherding responsibility a there's a shepherding responsibility a shepherding aspect that you you have and shepherding aspect that you you have and shepherding aspect that you you have and I think that in and of itself is what I think that in and of itself is what I think that in and of itself is what will really demonstrate your commitment will really demonstrate your commitment will really demonstrate your commitment to them and it actually I think it makes to them and it actually I think it makes to them and it actually I think it makes for healthier teams and it makes for for healthier teams and it makes for for healthier teams and it makes for more longevity in people's ability and more longevity in people's ability and more longevity in people's ability and willingness uh to stay with the team willingness uh to stay with the team willingness uh to stay with the team that they've been asked to join that they've been asked to join that they've been asked to join no no question no question yep no no question no question yep no no question no question yep okay so now the fourth one uh We've okay so now the fourth one uh We've okay so now the fourth one uh We've covered three so far the fourth one is covered three so far the fourth one is covered three so far the fourth one is make training a top priority how do you make training a top priority how do you make training a top priority how do you do that yes I love this question I'm a do that yes I love this question I'm a do that yes I love this question I'm a trainer at heart I love to I love it trainer at heart I love to I love it trainer at heart I love to I love it both the clipping and developing side we both the clipping and developing side we both the clipping and developing side we actually stopped there for a second we actually stopped there for a second we actually stopped there for a second we have to give extra stuff that's not in have to give extra stuff that's not in have to give extra stuff that's not in the post right the post right the post right um I think it's important in this Arena um I think it's important in this Arena um I think it's important in this Arena to distinguish the difference between to distinguish the difference between to distinguish the difference between equipping and developing and and equipping and developing and and equipping and developing and and equipping is you can build a great equipping is you can build a great equipping is you can build a great church on equipping I think Legacy church on equipping I think Legacy church on equipping I think Legacy churches include developing a couple of churches include developing a couple of churches include developing a couple of simple differences are it could be

simple differences are it could be simple differences are it could be trains people for a very specific trains people for a very specific trains people for a very specific Ministry task you know and Usher how to Ministry task you know and Usher how to Ministry task you know and Usher how to do CPR a small group leader how to lead do CPR a small group leader how to lead do CPR a small group leader how to lead a great discussion it's you're training a great discussion it's you're training a great discussion it's you're training for a specific task development pours for a specific task development pours for a specific task development pours into the individual so they're a bigger into the individual so they're a bigger into the individual so they're a bigger better stronger person the the clippings better stronger person the the clippings better stronger person the the clippings of transaction you know you you uh I'll of transaction you know you you uh I'll of transaction you know you you uh I'll train you how to do this if you'll do train you how to do this if you'll do train you how to do this if you'll do this nothing wrong with that and then a this nothing wrong with that and then a this nothing wrong with that and then a development is more of a gift development is more of a gift development is more of a gift um equipping is based on the church's um equipping is based on the church's um equipping is based on the church's agenda obviously great the vision the agenda obviously great the vision the agenda obviously great the vision the great commission development's based on great commission development's based on great commission development's based on the person's agenda what do they need the person's agenda what do they need the person's agenda what do they need where are they going you can see the where are they going you can see the where are they going you can see the difference and obviously there's a blend difference and obviously there's a blend difference and obviously there's a blend and blur between the two but smart and blur between the two but smart and blur between the two but smart churches know the difference to make churches know the difference to make churches know the difference to make sure they have both sure they have both sure they have both equipping environments and developmental equipping environments and developmental equipping environments and developmental because they're completely different in because they're completely different in because they're completely different in nature they feel different they look nature they feel different they look nature they feel different they look different all that kind of a thing but different all that kind of a thing but different all that kind of a thing but both both groups I mean both both groups I mean both both groups I mean the group of pre the people need both the group of pre the people need both the group of pre the people need both they just need them at the right times they just need them at the right times they just need them at the right times and and they're in their right in the and and they're in their right in the and and they're in their right in the right way so back to the topic of right way so back to the topic of right way so back to the topic of training overall training overall training overall uh people want to be successful they uh people want to be successful they uh people want to be successful they want to win want to win want to win and and I think volunteer teams want to and and I think volunteer teams want to and and I think volunteer teams want to win in the same way I mean when I'm win in the same way I mean when I'm win in the same way I mean when I'm rooting here for the the Braves or the rooting here for the the Braves or the rooting here for the the Braves or the Falcons I think I don't know if they're Falcons I think I don't know if they're Falcons I think I don't know if they're going to win but we sure want them to going to win but we sure want them to going to win but we sure want them to win right I mean you know and and people win right I mean you know and and people win right I mean you know and and people are the same way and and I think right are the same way and and I think right are the same way and and I think right underneath that we can't expect we can't

underneath that we can't expect we can't underneath that we can't expect we can't assume I should say we can't assume that assume I should say we can't assume that assume I should say we can't assume that volunteers one know what we expect and volunteers one know what we expect and volunteers one know what we expect and or that they know how or that they know how or that they know how it might something might be simple to it might something might be simple to it might something might be simple to the leader but it doesn't mean they know the leader but it doesn't mean they know the leader but it doesn't mean they know how and it doesn't mean they know what how and it doesn't mean they know what how and it doesn't mean they know what you expect them to do so that's at the you expect them to do so that's at the you expect them to do so that's at the top of top of top of um training right underneath the fact um training right underneath the fact um training right underneath the fact that you care and that they know it that you care and that they know it that you care and that they know it I think there's some things a couple of I think there's some things a couple of I think there's some things a couple of three points that help training be three points that help training be three points that help training be um um um worth going to so if we can beat blood I worth going to so if we can beat blood I worth going to so if we can beat blood I think one of the worst things we can do think one of the worst things we can do think one of the worst things we can do is have somebody volunteer other times is have somebody volunteer other times is have somebody volunteer other times show up show they care say hey count on show up show they care say hey count on show up show they care say hey count on me I want to help I want to be part of me I want to help I want to be part of me I want to help I want to be part of this Grand Vision and they show up and this Grand Vision and they show up and this Grand Vision and they show up and if we're ill-prepared the room's a mess if we're ill-prepared the room's a mess if we're ill-prepared the room's a mess the coffee's cold the the the training the coffee's cold the the the training the coffee's cold the the the training isn't relevant I think that's isn't relevant I think that's isn't relevant I think that's disrespectful I I think we should we I disrespectful I I think we should we I disrespectful I I think we should we I always call it you know oh this is always call it you know oh this is always call it you know oh this is old-fashioned term but you know for old-fashioned term but you know for old-fashioned term but you know for linen and Fork linen and four color you linen and Fork linen and four color you linen and Fork linen and four color you know you want to it just ought to be know you want to it just ought to be know you want to it just ought to be really well done not necessarily taking really well done not necessarily taking really well done not necessarily taking too much time but well done things like too much time but well done things like too much time but well done things like this this this relevant it ought to be relevant if if relevant it ought to be relevant if if relevant it ought to be relevant if if you're using this same training you were you're using this same training you were you're using this same training you were using in 2017 or 20 you know freshen it using in 2017 or 20 you know freshen it using in 2017 or 20 you know freshen it up you know make sure it's relevant the up you know make sure it's relevant the up you know make sure it's relevant the things we said and taught 2019 to 2023 things we said and taught 2019 to 2023 things we said and taught 2019 to 2023 they shouldn't be the same words they they shouldn't be the same words they they shouldn't be the same words they shouldn't be the same style it's not the shouldn't be the same style it's not the shouldn't be the same style it's not the same another one is practical

same another one is practical same another one is practical I think people really want us and this I think people really want us and this I think people really want us and this is where I I have a lot of flaws because is where I I have a lot of flaws because is where I I have a lot of flaws because I I teach leadership based a lot on I I teach leadership based a lot on I I teach leadership based a lot on principle but more the longer I do this principle but more the longer I do this principle but more the longer I do this the more I know that just just talk the more I know that just just talk the more I know that just just talk about how you do it speak directly into about how you do it speak directly into about how you do it speak directly into the actual responsibilities is so the actual responsibilities is so the actual responsibilities is so appreciated and and one more is appreciated and and one more is appreciated and and one more is inspirational inspirational inspirational and it's again once like we've talked to and it's again once like we've talked to and it's again once like we've talked to all three of us all four of us there's all three of us all four of us there's all three of us all four of us there's all three of us I counted three people all three of us I counted three people all three of us I counted three people but I'm one of the people but I'm one of the people but I'm one of the people I'm good at math yeah make it stop yeah I'm good at math yeah make it stop yeah I'm good at math yeah make it stop yeah there's a there's there's uh there's a there's there's uh there's a there's there's uh it's really important to not just start it's really important to not just start it's really important to not just start with the vision but keep reminding of with the vision but keep reminding of with the vision but keep reminding of the vision and and remind of the the vision and and remind of the the vision and and remind of the progress of the vision and of course we progress of the vision and of course we progress of the vision and of course we know how to do that tell stories of know how to do that tell stories of know how to do that tell stories of change lives that you know after change lives that you know after change lives that you know after equipping and training and all that's equipping and training and all that's equipping and training and all that's going on then there's briefer huddles going on then there's briefer huddles going on then there's briefer huddles that you know go on throughout the year that you know go on throughout the year that you know go on throughout the year for you know quick connects and for you know quick connects and for you know quick connects and communication what's happening what's communication what's happening what's communication what's happening what's changed how we do it in those moments changed how we do it in those moments changed how we do it in those moments we've got to tell stories to keep them we've got to tell stories to keep them we've got to tell stories to keep them like oh my gosh like oh my gosh like oh my gosh it's working you know so yeah I love it's working you know so yeah I love it's working you know so yeah I love that I love that training because it's that I love that training because it's that I love that training because it's not just training on how to do the job not just training on how to do the job not just training on how to do the job but it's the bigger vision of why we do but it's the bigger vision of why we do but it's the bigger vision of why we do this job and what we're doing is a this job and what we're doing is a this job and what we're doing is a movement of a church and what we're movement of a church and what we're movement of a church and what we're doing is movement of God in people's doing is movement of God in people's doing is movement of God in people's lives I love that and I think we just lives I love that and I think we just lives I love that and I think we just tend to gloss over that tend to gloss over that tend to gloss over that um a lot because of time you know it's

um a lot because of time you know it's um a lot because of time you know it's time people every everybody's busy yeah time people every everybody's busy yeah time people every everybody's busy yeah yeah well our tendency as trainers is to yeah well our tendency as trainers is to yeah well our tendency as trainers is to focus on the what and the how and not focus on the what and the how and not focus on the what and the how and not enough on the why and I think it goes enough on the why and I think it goes enough on the why and I think it goes back to point number one which is well back to point number one which is well back to point number one which is well you've invited people to be a part of you've invited people to be a part of you've invited people to be a part of this team based on a vision that you've this team based on a vision that you've this team based on a vision that you've cast for them and as you're training cast for them and as you're training cast for them and as you're training them you need to continue to keep the them you need to continue to keep the them you need to continue to keep the vision in front of them and using those vision in front of them and using those vision in front of them and using those training opportunities you know you you training opportunities you know you you training opportunities you know you you mentioned telling the stories of life mentioned telling the stories of life mentioned telling the stories of life change and Jason just about gave you an change and Jason just about gave you an change and Jason just about gave you an amen he was he was there but yeah yeah I amen he was he was there but yeah yeah I amen he was he was there but yeah yeah I mean telling telling stories of people mean telling telling stories of people mean telling telling stories of people whose lives have been impacted by the whose lives have been impacted by the whose lives have been impacted by the ministry by the volunteers by the ministry by the volunteers by the ministry by the volunteers by the engagement and I think that that's you engagement and I think that that's you engagement and I think that that's you know again keeping Vision in front of know again keeping Vision in front of know again keeping Vision in front of people should be part of the training people should be part of the training people should be part of the training not just the nuts and bolts of how to not just the nuts and bolts of how to not just the nuts and bolts of how to get the job done get the job done get the job done yeah absolutely yeah yeah absolutely yeah yeah absolutely yeah oh so good oh I love that training top oh so good oh I love that training top oh so good oh I love that training top priority start with priority start with priority start with the why the why the why why are we doing this okay uh okay why are we doing this okay uh okay why are we doing this okay uh okay number five number five just recognize number five number five just recognize number five number five just recognize the value of systems okay this is the value of systems okay this is the value of systems okay this is something I'm not very strong I'm something I'm not very strong I'm something I'm not very strong I'm located but there's other people who are located but there's other people who are located but there's other people who are really good talk to us about the value really good talk to us about the value really good talk to us about the value of systems value of systems well I'm in of systems value of systems well I'm in of systems value of systems well I'm in your Club Bart because I'm I'm pretty your Club Bart because I'm I'm pretty your Club Bart because I'm I'm pretty good at designing them I'm a little bit good at designing them I'm a little bit good at designing them I'm a little bit more on the people development side of more on the people development side of more on the people development side of the Arena but I've grown to respect uh the Arena but I've grown to respect uh the Arena but I've grown to respect uh systems for a lot of reasons so let's systems for a lot of reasons so let's systems for a lot of reasons so let's jump in you know I think first of all jump in you know I think first of all jump in you know I think first of all sometimes we sort of resist systems

sometimes we sort of resist systems sometimes we sort of resist systems because they don't feel or sound because they don't feel or sound because they don't feel or sound spiritual and and we think the spirit spiritual and and we think the spirit spiritual and and we think the spirit and system competes but experience and system competes but experience and system competes but experience system do not compete at all systems system do not compete at all systems system do not compete at all systems just Elevate the spirit's freedom to just Elevate the spirit's freedom to just Elevate the spirit's freedom to move farther and faster really and so we move farther and faster really and so we move farther and faster really and so we actually become more effective when we actually become more effective when we actually become more effective when we learn how to work with systems and also learn how to work with systems and also learn how to work with systems and also I think sometimes in my experience I think sometimes in my experience I think sometimes in my experience especially in larger churches we tend to especially in larger churches we tend to especially in larger churches we tend to over complicate our notion of what a over complicate our notion of what a over complicate our notion of what a system is system is system is the the truth of a good system is the the truth of a good system is the the truth of a good system is they're actually simple at their most they're actually simple at their most they're actually simple at their most basic functional functionality they're basic functional functionality they're basic functional functionality they're they make things simple and they are they make things simple and they are they make things simple and they are simple if they're not simple and they simple if they're not simple and they simple if they're not simple and they make things more complicated you got a make things more complicated you got a make things more complicated you got a lousy system you know it's fighting the lousy system you know it's fighting the lousy system you know it's fighting the very thing it's supposed to do so here's very thing it's supposed to do so here's very thing it's supposed to do so here's some of the valuable benefits that maybe some of the valuable benefits that maybe some of the valuable benefits that maybe you can test your systems with one is you can test your systems with one is you can test your systems with one is that systems help you stay focused on that systems help you stay focused on that systems help you stay focused on next steps next steps next steps they're not just a circular thing a busy they're not just a circular thing a busy they're not just a circular thing a busy thing and an endless thing you know thing and an endless thing you know thing and an endless thing you know everybody ought to know the direction everybody ought to know the direction everybody ought to know the direction they're headed you know in the church I they're headed you know in the church I they're headed you know in the church I don't care if you're 150 people 100 don't care if you're 150 people 100 don't care if you're 150 people 100 people or 10 000 people yeah what's the people or 10 000 people yeah what's the people or 10 000 people yeah what's the direction toward maturity what's the direction toward maturity what's the direction toward maturity what's the direct personal maturity what's the direct personal maturity what's the direct personal maturity what's the direction toward direction toward direction toward um Vision accomplishment together um Vision accomplishment together um Vision accomplishment together individual and corporate and then what's individual and corporate and then what's individual and corporate and then what's the next step what's the next step the next step what's the next step the next step what's the next step sometimes people say well I've I've come sometimes people say well I've I've come sometimes people say well I've I've come to the end of the pipeline I'm already a to the end of the pipeline I'm already a to the end of the pipeline I'm already a leader I'm on you know what's the next leader I'm on you know what's the next leader I'm on you know what's the next when you when you think and I don't when you when you think and I don't when you when you think and I don't think anybody's ever arrived but if you think anybody's ever arrived but if you think anybody's ever arrived but if you think you do all right let's just go

think you do all right let's just go think you do all right let's just go there for a second you let there's there for a second you let there's there for a second you let there's nowhere else to go nowhere else to go nowhere else to go um and I get that on a practical level um and I get that on a practical level um and I get that on a practical level well then okay let's accept that for a well then okay let's accept that for a well then okay let's accept that for a moment sort of then there's the next moment sort of then there's the next moment sort of then there's the next person that needs to be reached and the person that needs to be reached and the person that needs to be reached and the next person that needs to be reached and next person that needs to be reached and next person that needs to be reached and the next per just what's the next step the next per just what's the next step the next per just what's the next step here's another one systems help you here's another one systems help you here's another one systems help you follow up more consistently follow up more consistently follow up more consistently the longer I lead the more I mean the the longer I lead the more I mean the the longer I lead the more I mean the more I believe in the power of the Holy more I believe in the power of the Holy more I believe in the power of the Holy Spirit and prayer and vision and all of Spirit and prayer and vision and all of Spirit and prayer and vision and all of that because it's so important to bring that because it's so important to bring that because it's so important to bring hope hope hope the more I also believe that churches the more I also believe that churches the more I also believe that churches that win over the Long Haul other that win over the Long Haul other that win over the Long Haul other churches that get blocking and tackling churches that get blocking and tackling churches that get blocking and tackling the churches that are consistent in the the churches that are consistent in the the churches that are consistent in the fundamentals of execution they just show fundamentals of execution they just show fundamentals of execution they just show up and do it and start get over up and do it and start get over up and do it and start get over ourselves about I'm bored it's not about ourselves about I'm bored it's not about ourselves about I'm bored it's not about us being bored it's about us helping us being bored it's about us helping us being bored it's about us helping people and so I admit it I get more people and so I admit it I get more people and so I admit it I get more teaching the same talk or doing the same teaching the same talk or doing the same teaching the same talk or doing the same thing but it's not about me it's about thing but it's not about me it's about thing but it's not about me it's about us together in a system helping the next us together in a system helping the next us together in a system helping the next person and so being consistent in those person and so being consistent in those person and so being consistent in those things helps uh engagement it helps things helps uh engagement it helps things helps uh engagement it helps training it helps communication it helps training it helps communication it helps training it helps communication it helps the outcomes the outcomes the outcomes um one more I would I would toss out and um one more I would I would toss out and um one more I would I would toss out and we can talk about it if you want is the we can talk about it if you want is the we can talk about it if you want is the systems help us scale systems help us scale systems help us scale uh the volunteer base uh the volunteer base uh the volunteer base that's just a fact where you might be a that's just a fact where you might be a that's just a fact where you might be a skilled recruiter or inviter or you pick skilled recruiter or inviter or you pick skilled recruiter or inviter or you pick the word that you like you might be the word that you like you might be the word that you like you might be really skilled at it but you have a

really skilled at it but you have a really skilled at it but you have a limit everybody has a limit you can only limit everybody has a limit you can only limit everybody has a limit you can only do so many where systems help you move do so many where systems help you move do so many where systems help you move from from from um bringing one on the team or 10 on the um bringing one on the team or 10 on the um bringing one on the team or 10 on the team to Bringing 50 on the team or a team to Bringing 50 on the team or a team to Bringing 50 on the team or a hundred on the team and systems are hundred on the team and systems are hundred on the team and systems are really your friend if they'll if you you really your friend if they'll if you you really your friend if they'll if you you know you still have to keep them warm know you still have to keep them warm know you still have to keep them warm and keep them having elegant human and keep them having elegant human and keep them having elegant human nature to them but but there's they just nature to them but but there's they just nature to them but but there's they just help you reach more people at some well help you reach more people at some well help you reach more people at some well and I think number four does kind of and I think number four does kind of and I think number four does kind of combine with number five because not combine with number five because not combine with number five because not everybody learns at the same speed or everybody learns at the same speed or everybody learns at the same speed or capacity as you might right you're capacity as you might right you're capacity as you might right you're training people you have to recognize training people you have to recognize training people you have to recognize that constantly training them on the that constantly training them on the that constantly training them on the systems is pretty important you know systems is pretty important you know systems is pretty important you know um I've learned that a lot right I have um I've learned that a lot right I have um I've learned that a lot right I have to be trained a lot on certain things to be trained a lot on certain things to be trained a lot on certain things because I'm just not gifted but I'm also because I'm just not gifted but I'm also because I'm just not gifted but I'm also I'm gifting other areas that other I'm gifting other areas that other I'm gifting other areas that other people aren't so there's that people aren't so there's that people aren't so there's that recognition of it where you're recognition of it where you're recognition of it where you're constantly training that's that's constantly training that's that's constantly training that's that's important my HR our HR Director would be important my HR our HR Director would be important my HR our HR Director would be Barb we love her to ask you we were Barb we love her to ask you we were Barb we love her to ask you we were laughing right now she has retrained me laughing right now she has retrained me laughing right now she has retrained me so many times I'm embarrassed to say it so many times I'm embarrassed to say it so many times I'm embarrassed to say it in our paycom system for the health care in our paycom system for the health care in our paycom system for the health care thing and the HSA card she's going damn thing and the HSA card she's going damn thing and the HSA card she's going damn the cows know how to do this what is the cows know how to do this what is the cows know how to do this what is wrong with you you know and I'm sorry I wrong with you you know and I'm sorry I wrong with you you know and I'm sorry I don't get it you know and so that's your don't get it you know and so that's your don't get it you know and so that's your heart yeah exactly exactly exactly but heart yeah exactly exactly exactly but heart yeah exactly exactly exactly but but then again I'm really pretty good at but then again I'm really pretty good at but then again I'm really pretty good at some other things so you're so right some other things so you're so right some other things so you're so right some people just need some people just need some people just need a little more help that's right never a little more help that's right never a little more help that's right never let up on it yeah yeah

let up on it yeah yeah let up on it yeah yeah Dan is there anything that we haven't Dan is there anything that we haven't Dan is there anything that we haven't asked you today that you wish we would asked you today that you wish we would asked you today that you wish we would have asked you have asked you have asked you oh how how do I comb my awesome flock of oh how how do I comb my awesome flock of oh how how do I comb my awesome flock of hair I don't know um hair I don't know um hair I don't know um uh you know there's one thing if we have uh you know there's one thing if we have uh you know there's one thing if we have a minute I would throw into the mix uh a minute I would throw into the mix uh a minute I would throw into the mix uh sure because it speaks to the bigger sure because it speaks to the bigger sure because it speaks to the bigger picture of the most practical element picture of the most practical element picture of the most practical element which is the feeling of pressure you which is the feeling of pressure you which is the feeling of pressure you know patient pressure and that is where know patient pressure and that is where know patient pressure and that is where we teach our team is the concept of we teach our team is the concept of we teach our team is the concept of right sizing right sizing right sizing um you know if you we teach the right um you know if you we teach the right um you know if you we teach the right size problems and and to right size size problems and and to right size size problems and and to right size problems because if you look at a problems because if you look at a problems because if you look at a problem and think it's insurmountable problem and think it's insurmountable problem and think it's insurmountable it's insurmountable if you look at a it's insurmountable if you look at a it's insurmountable if you look at a problem and you think I can't do it you problem and you think I can't do it you problem and you think I can't do it you you can't do it and and so we call that you can't do it and and so we call that you can't do it and and so we call that supersizing a problem rather than right supersizing a problem rather than right supersizing a problem rather than right sizing it and so it begins with giving sizing it and so it begins with giving sizing it and so it begins with giving definition uh tell a story now this one definition uh tell a story now this one definition uh tell a story now this one is Mark you as mentioned earlier it is is Mark you as mentioned earlier it is is Mark you as mentioned earlier it is it is more in the more common area it is more in the more common area it is more in the more common area particularly in children's ministry but particularly in children's ministry but particularly in children's ministry but we can adapt this in any direction like we can adapt this in any direction like we can adapt this in any direction like we talked about the music tech guy okay we talked about the music tech guy okay we talked about the music tech guy okay you don't need five but you need one you you don't need five but you need one you you don't need five but you need one you know that's right sizing uh in in this know that's right sizing uh in in this know that's right sizing uh in in this case it was coming up on Easter and this case it was coming up on Easter and this case it was coming up on Easter and this really quite gifted and wonderful really quite gifted and wonderful really quite gifted and wonderful children's director was just in a panic children's director was just in a panic children's director was just in a panic it was three weeks to Easter and and it was three weeks to Easter and and it was three weeks to Easter and and there's a I had I get all these there's a I had I get all these there's a I had I get all these volunteers I need all these volunteers I volunteers I need all these volunteers I volunteers I need all these volunteers I I I need a ton of volunteers and I said I I need a ton of volunteers and I said I I need a ton of volunteers and I said I said okay just you know take a breath

I said okay just you know take a breath I said okay just you know take a breath how many do you need I need a ton I need how many do you need I need a ton I need how many do you need I need a ton I need to you know I said all right what I want to you know I said all right what I want to you know I said all right what I want you to do I want to just take an hour you to do I want to just take an hour you to do I want to just take an hour take a day come back I want you to count take a day come back I want you to count take a day come back I want you to count I want you to go count how many you need I want you to go count how many you need I want you to go count how many you need and they kind of the person looked at me and they kind of the person looked at me and they kind of the person looked at me like like like okay you know and so they did that came okay you know and so they did that came okay you know and so they did that came back and they had a number of 20 and I back and they had a number of 20 and I back and they had a number of 20 and I said fantastic all right you need 20 said fantastic all right you need 20 said fantastic all right you need 20 volunteers to make to fill in everything volunteers to make to fill in everything volunteers to make to fill in everything for Easter all the services yes I said for Easter all the services yes I said for Easter all the services yes I said can you recruit 20 in three weeks no can you recruit 20 in three weeks no can you recruit 20 in three weeks no okay you know I said can you recruit 15. okay you know I said can you recruit 15. okay you know I said can you recruit 15. and I think a no is coming out again and I think a no is coming out again and I think a no is coming out again again I think there was still again I think there was still again I think there was still frustration in there another Noah's frustration in there another Noah's frustration in there another Noah's coming out so I said all right I'll keep coming out so I said all right I'll keep coming out so I said all right I'll keep the right size you're going can you do the right size you're going can you do the right size you're going can you do 15 and I jumped in said meaning one a 15 and I jumped in said meaning one a 15 and I jumped in said meaning one a day five days a week two days off for day five days a week two days off for day five days a week two days off for three weeks three weeks three weeks yes I can and then and then then you yes I can and then and then then you yes I can and then and then then you think well wait a minute there was 20 think well wait a minute there was 20 think well wait a minute there was 20 that's only 15. so I said do you have a that's only 15. so I said do you have a that's only 15. so I said do you have a high capacity volunteer or two high capacity volunteer or two high capacity volunteer or two who could go recruit five people for you who could go recruit five people for you who could go recruit five people for you in three weeks in three weeks in three weeks yes I can that's right sizing and we we yes I can that's right sizing and we we yes I can that's right sizing and we we have we've helped so many people stop have we've helped so many people stop have we've helped so many people stop panicking what's the real need break it panicking what's the real need break it panicking what's the real need break it down into pieces figure it out and they

down into pieces figure it out and they down into pieces figure it out and they go I can do this go I can do this go I can do this um so uh that that was worth the price um so uh that that was worth the price um so uh that that was worth the price of admission right there of admission right there of admission right there that was fantastic I'm glad I'm glad we that was fantastic I'm glad I'm glad we that was fantastic I'm glad I'm glad we we didn't ask the question that you we didn't ask the question that you we didn't ask the question that you wanted us to ask but we asked you what wanted us to ask but we asked you what wanted us to ask but we asked you what question we should be asking because I question we should be asking because I question we should be asking because I think that was good that was that was think that was good that was that was think that was good that was that was fantastic maybe you'll have to uh uh say fantastic maybe you'll have to uh uh say fantastic maybe you'll have to uh uh say something up front so they'll listen all something up front so they'll listen all something up front so they'll listen all the way to the end the way to the end the way to the end I'm gonna tell them Dan said you better I'm gonna tell them Dan said you better I'm gonna tell them Dan said you better listen to the very end okay listen to the very end okay listen to the very end okay Dan said that's right Dan said that's right Dan said that's right well Jason you want to tie things up well Jason you want to tie things up well Jason you want to tie things up here yeah no just I so appreciate your here yeah no just I so appreciate your here yeah no just I so appreciate your wisdom and wisdom and wisdom and um the fact that you just you care about um the fact that you just you care about um the fact that you just you care about obviously about God and the kingdom and obviously about God and the kingdom and obviously about God and the kingdom and the church and and moving it forward as the church and and moving it forward as the church and and moving it forward as you sort of you know give it you know you sort of you know give it you know you sort of you know give it you know you sort of wind down your career a you sort of wind down your career a you sort of wind down your career a little bit there as as we were talking little bit there as as we were talking little bit there as as we were talking about before and uh yeah you're just you about before and uh yeah you're just you about before and uh yeah you're just you just have all this knowledge and so just have all this knowledge and so just have all this knowledge and so thank you very much for coming on this thank you very much for coming on this thank you very much for coming on this podcast sharing some of that in-depth podcast sharing some of that in-depth podcast sharing some of that in-depth knowledge that you have and just we knowledge that you have and just we knowledge that you have and just we really appreciate you appreciate it really appreciate you appreciate it really appreciate you appreciate it that's very kind and I I quite enjoy that's very kind and I I quite enjoy that's very kind and I I quite enjoy both of you and and uh what you're doing both of you and and uh what you're doing both of you and and uh what you're doing and I know it's extra time effort and and I know it's extra time effort and and I know it's extra time effort and effort and energy that you really don't effort and energy that you really don't effort and energy that you really don't have to do so thank you for helping the have to do so thank you for helping the have to do so thank you for helping the kingdom move forward and uh kingdom move forward and uh kingdom move forward and uh and you know what's really really funny and you know what's really really funny and you know what's really really funny um and if we go over time you can clip um and if we go over time you can clip um and if we go over time you can clip this out that's okay but but uh it's this out that's okay but but uh it's this out that's okay but but uh it's interesting as I quite as I supposedly

interesting as I quite as I supposedly interesting as I quite as I supposedly wind down a bit a little less a little wind down a bit a little less a little wind down a bit a little less a little less time at the church for a couple less time at the church for a couple less time at the church for a couple more years and more time into my more years and more time into my more years and more time into my coaching and Consulting here's the funny coaching and Consulting here's the funny coaching and Consulting here's the funny thing my calendar is Fuller now than thing my calendar is Fuller now than thing my calendar is Fuller now than ever and I'm loving it but let me tell ever and I'm loving it but let me tell ever and I'm loving it but let me tell you something that you two might be able you something that you two might be able you something that you two might be able to look forward to maybe any anybody to look forward to maybe any anybody to look forward to maybe any anybody listening you can here's the difference listening you can here's the difference listening you can here's the difference and it's just it's like it's like oh my and it's just it's like it's like oh my and it's just it's like it's like oh my gosh I'm born again so for 40 years my gosh I'm born again so for 40 years my gosh I'm born again so for 40 years my calendar has been filled essentially by calendar has been filled essentially by calendar has been filled essentially by other people other people other people now it's full and over full but I'm now it's full and over full but I'm now it's full and over full but I'm feeling good and I'm telling you there's feeling good and I'm telling you there's feeling good and I'm telling you there's something about that that's just like something about that that's just like something about that that's just like here we go this is awesome so I'm I'm here we go this is awesome so I'm I'm here we go this is awesome so I'm I'm enjoying Ministry a different phase and enjoying Ministry a different phase and enjoying Ministry a different phase and I'm loving it but thank you again for I'm loving it but thank you again for I'm loving it but thank you again for the invite oh well you're welcome we the invite oh well you're welcome we the invite oh well you're welcome we can't wait to have you back on the show can't wait to have you back on the show can't wait to have you back on the show yeah that's awesome thank you Dan hey yeah that's awesome thank you Dan hey yeah that's awesome thank you Dan hey thank you for tuning in to this week's thank you for tuning in to this week's thank you for tuning in to this week's episode of the missional marketing episode of the missional marketing episode of the missional marketing podcast podcast podcast um as I always mention if you haven't um as I always mention if you haven't um as I always mention if you haven't subscribed wherever you're listening or subscribed wherever you're listening or subscribed wherever you're listening or if you're watching on our YouTube if you're watching on our YouTube if you're watching on our YouTube channel make sure that you do that and channel make sure that you do that and channel make sure that you do that and hey wouldn't this be a great episode for hey wouldn't this be a great episode for hey wouldn't this be a great episode for you to leave us a five-star review or a you to leave us a five-star review or a you to leave us a five-star review or a four-star review we're not interested in four-star review we're not interested in four-star review we're not interested in one two or three just the fours and one two or three just the fours and one two or three just the fours and fives fives fives um or you can leave us some comments on um or you can leave us some comments on um or you can leave us some comments on our YouTube channel if you found this our YouTube channel if you found this our YouTube channel if you found this content to be helpful would love to content to be helpful would love to content to be helpful would love to dialogue with you there dialogue with you there dialogue with you there um and on behalf of uh Dan and Jason I'm um and on behalf of uh Dan and Jason I'm um and on behalf of uh Dan and Jason I'm Bart and we're out of here Bart and we're out of here Bart and we're out of here thank you