Digital Discipleship Strategies for Church Online | Chris Surratt

welcome to the church growth podcast my welcome to the church growth podcast my name is jason hamrock i am your host name is jason hamrock i am your host name is jason hamrock i am your host today today today glad to have you here uh today we're glad to have you here uh today we're glad to have you here uh today we're talking with chris talking with chris talking with chris sarad now chris sarat is a small group sarad now chris sarat is a small group sarad now chris sarat is a small group and discipleship specialist with lifeway and discipleship specialist with lifeway and discipleship specialist with lifeway christian resources christian resources christian resources he's also a ministry consultant with the he's also a ministry consultant with the he's also a ministry consultant with the unstuck group unstuck group unstuck group but in chris's previous roles he is a but in chris's previous roles he is a but in chris's previous roles he is a pastor a leader pastor a leader pastor a leader he's also a husband and and a dad and uh he's also a husband and and a dad and uh he's also a husband and and a dad and uh chris and i talk a lot about how to do chris and i talk a lot about how to do chris and i talk a lot about how to do small small small groups online during this pandemic and groups online during this pandemic and groups online during this pandemic and certainly what's going to happen after certainly what's going to happen after certainly what's going to happen after this this this i hope you enjoy well chris welcome i hope you enjoy well chris welcome i hope you enjoy well chris welcome thanks for for joining me today how you thanks for for joining me today how you thanks for for joining me today how you doing doing doing i'm doing great thanks jason for i'm doing great thanks jason for i'm doing great thanks jason for inviting me yeah inviting me yeah inviting me yeah great hey i want to learn a little bit great hey i want to learn a little bit great hey i want to learn a little bit about you so about you so about you so share with me some of your your ministry share with me some of your your ministry share with me some of your your ministry experience you know how experience you know how experience you know how you ended up as a small group and you ended up as a small group and you ended up as a small group and discipleship specialist at lifeway and discipleship specialist at lifeway and discipleship specialist at lifeway and yeah what's been going on in your world yeah what's been going on in your world yeah what's been going on in your world yeah it's been quite a journey i mean i yeah it's been quite a journey i mean i yeah it's been quite a journey i mean i grew up in the church grew up in the church grew up in the church my dad was a pastor for over 40 years my dad was a pastor for over 40 years my dad was a pastor for over 40 years and a missionary and a missionary and a missionary for a while in india and my uh uncles for a while in india and my uh uncles for a while in india and my uh uncles and cousins and cousins and cousins and uh pretty much everybody in the and uh pretty much everybody in the and uh pretty much everybody in the sarat family is pastoring somewhere sarat family is pastoring somewhere sarat family is pastoring somewhere we uh we joke that if you don't have a we uh we joke that if you don't have a we uh we joke that if you don't have a church near you pastored by a sarah just church near you pastored by a sarah just church near you pastored by a sarah just wait it's coming wait it's coming wait it's coming and we were just talking pretty uh and we were just talking pretty uh and we were just talking pretty uh pre-podcast so you actually live in a pre-podcast so you actually live in a pre-podcast so you actually live in a town where it's a rat town where it's a rat town where it's a rat pasture so you know it's either good or pasture so you know it's either good or pasture so you know it's either good or bad depends on your bad depends on your bad depends on your point of view but yeah so uh church is point of view but yeah so uh church is point of view but yeah so uh church is in my blood for sure and

in my blood for sure and in my blood for sure and started out in ministry as a part-time started out in ministry as a part-time started out in ministry as a part-time youth pastor for my dad while i was in youth pastor for my dad while i was in youth pastor for my dad while i was in college college college um and did that for a few years and then um and did that for a few years and then um and did that for a few years and then ended up moving to ended up moving to ended up moving to south carolina not long after i got south carolina not long after i got south carolina not long after i got married and went on staff married and went on staff married and went on staff at my brother's church and others are at at my brother's church and others are at at my brother's church and others are at seacoast church seacoast church seacoast church in based in charleston south carolina in based in charleston south carolina in based in charleston south carolina and was actually on staff there for and was actually on staff there for and was actually on staff there for about 15 years about 15 years about 15 years and seacoast was one of the first and seacoast was one of the first and seacoast was one of the first churches to go multi-site churches to go multi-site churches to go multi-site we launched our first site in 2002 we launched our first site in 2002 we launched our first site in 2002 and now seacoast has 1415 sites all over and now seacoast has 1415 sites all over and now seacoast has 1415 sites all over south carolina georgia and north south carolina georgia and north south carolina georgia and north carolina carolina carolina so i was there for 15 years and then so i was there for 15 years and then so i was there for 15 years and then actually planted a church in greenville actually planted a church in greenville actually planted a church in greenville south carolina that south carolina that south carolina that became a a campus of became a a campus of became a a campus of of seacoast so it's now seacoast of seacoast so it's now seacoast of seacoast so it's now seacoast greenville greenville greenville and then moved to nashville in 2009 and then moved to nashville in 2009 and then moved to nashville in 2009 to be the executive pastor of ministries to be the executive pastor of ministries to be the executive pastor of ministries at a church called cross point at a church called cross point at a church called cross point which is now multi-site church my wife which is now multi-site church my wife which is now multi-site church my wife and i still attend there and i still attend there and i still attend there but about five or six sites all around but about five or six sites all around but about five or six sites all around nashville and did that for about six nashville and did that for about six nashville and did that for about six years years years and then um lifeway just kind of came and then um lifeway just kind of came and then um lifeway just kind of came out of nowhere i had a friend out of nowhere i had a friend out of nowhere i had a friend who was was there and he asked me if i'd who was was there and he asked me if i'd who was was there and he asked me if i'd be interested in a position be interested in a position be interested in a position and so we talked and didn't require and so we talked and didn't require and so we talked and didn't require moving and moving and moving and i was really looking forward to kind of i was really looking forward to kind of i was really looking forward to kind of working with the big c working with the big c working with the big c church and influencing churches around church and influencing churches around church and influencing churches around the nation and so the nation and so the nation and so took that role and five years later here took that role and five years later here took that role and five years later here i am so it's been

i am so it's been i am so it's been it's been a lot of fun what a journey it's been a lot of fun what a journey it's been a lot of fun what a journey uh well thank you for serving the uh well thank you for serving the uh well thank you for serving the kingdom man it just uh you mentioned kingdom man it just uh you mentioned kingdom man it just uh you mentioned some great churches there some great churches there some great churches there so a lot of us know all about those so a lot of us know all about those so a lot of us know all about those churches so churches so churches so that's pretty awesome before we get to that's pretty awesome before we get to that's pretty awesome before we get to our interview with chris which we're our interview with chris which we're our interview with chris which we're really excited about i got one thing i really excited about i got one thing i really excited about i got one thing i want to share with you want to share with you want to share with you as you're planning out 2021 and what it as you're planning out 2021 and what it as you're planning out 2021 and what it means to actually get into the digital means to actually get into the digital means to actually get into the digital space and space and space and and reach more people online i want to and reach more people online i want to and reach more people online i want to have you consider have you consider have you consider checking out the google ad grant if checking out the google ad grant if checking out the google ad grant if you've not you've not you've not tuned into the google ad grant or you tuned into the google ad grant or you tuned into the google ad grant or you don't know what the google ad grant don't know what the google ad grant don't know what the google ad grant is you got to click on that find our is you got to click on that find our is you got to click on that find our website and learn more about it website and learn more about it website and learn more about it google will give your church donate to google will give your church donate to google will give your church donate to your church your church your church ten thousand dollars of in-kind donation ten thousand dollars of in-kind donation ten thousand dollars of in-kind donation through adwords through adwords through adwords that's a hundred and twenty thousand that's a hundred and twenty thousand that's a hundred and twenty thousand dollars added to your advertising budget dollars added to your advertising budget dollars added to your advertising budget this year and we get to serve and work this year and we get to serve and work this year and we get to serve and work with a lot of churches with a lot of churches with a lot of churches educating and equipping them on how to educating and equipping them on how to educating and equipping them on how to use use use the google ad grant so if it's something the google ad grant so if it's something the google ad grant so if it's something you're interested in check it out you you're interested in check it out you you're interested in check it out you definitely want to use google this year definitely want to use google this year definitely want to use google this year to reach more and more people online to reach more and more people online to reach more and more people online pretty awesome so pretty awesome so pretty awesome so uh okay so prior to the pandemic uh okay so prior to the pandemic uh okay so prior to the pandemic um you know was was digital discipleship um you know was was digital discipleship um you know was was digital discipleship even even even even a thing on anybody's radar because even a thing on anybody's radar because even a thing on anybody's radar because it is now and i want to have you talk a it is now and i want to have you talk a it is now and i want to have you talk a little bit about that but before the little bit about that but before the little bit about that but before the pandemic was that even something that pandemic was that even something that pandemic was that even something that you were talking about you were talking about you were talking about yeah i mean it was a conversation that yeah i mean it was a conversation that yeah i mean it was a conversation that we've been having for a long

we've been having for a long we've been having for a long time but i would say that it was a niche time but i would say that it was a niche time but i would say that it was a niche of discipleship and something that was of discipleship and something that was of discipleship and something that was thought more as thought more as thought more as kind of a temporary bridge for people to kind of a temporary bridge for people to kind of a temporary bridge for people to get connected who get connected who get connected who weren't ready for an in-person group or weren't ready for an in-person group or weren't ready for an in-person group or stepping foot inside the church yet so stepping foot inside the church yet so stepping foot inside the church yet so that was kind of what online that was kind of what online that was kind of what online discipleship or online groups discipleship or online groups discipleship or online groups were thought of i remember having the were thought of i remember having the were thought of i remember having the conversation years and years ago i was conversation years and years ago i was conversation years and years ago i was at a small conference at saddleback at a small conference at saddleback at a small conference at saddleback actually actually actually and they've been a real pioneer when it and they've been a real pioneer when it and they've been a real pioneer when it comes to online small groups saddleback comes to online small groups saddleback comes to online small groups saddleback in california in california in california they've been doing them for like 10 they've been doing them for like 10 they've been doing them for like 10 years something like that years something like that years something like that and we were having a conversation with a and we were having a conversation with a and we were having a conversation with a bunch of groups pastors around a fire bunch of groups pastors around a fire bunch of groups pastors around a fire and we were talking about and we were talking about and we were talking about is are online groups true community is are online groups true community is are online groups true community can we really disciple people in an can we really disciple people in an can we really disciple people in an online forum and the overall majority of online forum and the overall majority of online forum and the overall majority of the group was no the group was no the group was no was that community really can't happen was that community really can't happen was that community really can't happen online online online the discipleship you can only go so far the discipleship you can only go so far the discipleship you can only go so far online and so most of the churches at online and so most of the churches at online and so most of the churches at the time the time the time said no we don't we don't feel like said no we don't we don't feel like said no we don't we don't feel like that's a long-term solution that's a long-term solution that's a long-term solution well fast forward to uh april of this well fast forward to uh april of this well fast forward to uh april of this year when year when year when everything shut down and churches were everything shut down and churches were everything shut down and churches were forced to go online with their worship forced to go online with their worship forced to go online with their worship and their groups and a lot of those same and their groups and a lot of those same and their groups and a lot of those same churches that were in that circle churches that were in that circle churches that were in that circle suddenly launched online groups and i've suddenly launched online groups and i've suddenly launched online groups and i've had conversations with had conversations with had conversations with some of those pastors since and they're some of those pastors since and they're some of those pastors since and they're big believers and they feel like they're big believers and they feel like they're big believers and they feel like they're here to stay to some degree here to stay to some degree here to stay to some degree and we can talk about that a little bit and we can talk about that a little bit and we can talk about that a little bit later but there i believe there's some

later but there i believe there's some later but there i believe there's some limitations limitations limitations to uh what you can do virtually online to uh what you can do virtually online to uh what you can do virtually online when it comes to discipleship when it comes to discipleship when it comes to discipleship but i do think that it's something that but i do think that it's something that but i do think that it's something that uh can work and probably uh can work and probably uh can work and probably is here to stay uh for the future is here to stay uh for the future is here to stay uh for the future so uh give me so so when you say so uh give me so so when you say so uh give me so so when you say it can work in terms of um it can work in terms of um it can work in terms of um having a successful discipleship having a successful discipleship having a successful discipleship process or path of engaging people process or path of engaging people process or path of engaging people um is there is any evidence of that or um is there is any evidence of that or um is there is any evidence of that or is it more like yeah we think we can do is it more like yeah we think we can do is it more like yeah we think we can do this because this because this because um how do you how do you show that um how do you how do you show that um how do you how do you show that people are growing in their faith that people are growing in their faith that people are growing in their faith that they're being discipled they're being discipled they're being discipled yeah in an online experience as opposed yeah in an online experience as opposed yeah in an online experience as opposed to in person to in person to in person yeah well i think that's difficult yeah well i think that's difficult yeah well i think that's difficult whether it's in person whether it's in person whether it's in person or online i mean we can count people or online i mean we can count people or online i mean we can count people that attend that attend that attend groups we can count people that go groups we can count people that go groups we can count people that go through classes but are they really through classes but are they really through classes but are they really growing growing growing are they really being changed you know are they really being changed you know are they really being changed you know that's that's more difficult and that's that's more difficult and that's that's more difficult and there are ways that i think that you can there are ways that i think that you can there are ways that i think that you can look for the fruit we call them look for the fruit we call them look for the fruit we call them signposts of a disciple signposts of a disciple signposts of a disciple at lifeway but you can look for these at lifeway but you can look for these at lifeway but you can look for these signs that people are growing you know signs that people are growing you know signs that people are growing you know obviously are they re obviously are they re obviously are they re reading the word which is kind of a reading the word which is kind of a reading the word which is kind of a catapult for all of the rest of the catapult for all of the rest of the catapult for all of the rest of the disciplines disciplines disciplines you know are they uh serving are they you know are they uh serving are they you know are they uh serving are they giving and but giving and but giving and but whether it's in person or online it's whether it's in person or online it's whether it's in person or online it's difficult to find out whether somebody's difficult to find out whether somebody's difficult to find out whether somebody's really growing really growing really growing just because they're attending doesn't just because they're attending doesn't just because they're attending doesn't mean that they're becoming mean that they're becoming mean that they're becoming disciples right right and so i think you disciples right right and so i think you disciples right right and so i think you have the same issue with both forms but have the same issue with both forms but have the same issue with both forms but what we're seeing is

what we're seeing is what we're seeing is there are a lot of churches especially there are a lot of churches especially there are a lot of churches especially in parts of the country that have been in parts of the country that have been in parts of the country that have been really locked down and have stayed really locked down and have stayed really locked down and have stayed locked down locked down locked down like new york city california like new york city california like new york city california you know oregon those places have been you know oregon those places have been you know oregon those places have been forced to buy forced to buy forced to buy in and keep going with online groups in and keep going with online groups in and keep going with online groups and a lot of those churches are having and a lot of those churches are having and a lot of those churches are having great success with them i was just great success with them i was just great success with them i was just talking to a friend of mine talking to a friend of mine talking to a friend of mine the other day dave enz who's at north the other day dave enz who's at north the other day dave enz who's at north coast in san diego larry osborne's coast in san diego larry osborne's coast in san diego larry osborne's church church church and they have had great success with and they have had great success with and they have had great success with online groups and have launched online groups and have launched online groups and have launched more online groups than than they've had more online groups than than they've had more online groups than than they've had regular groups over the last few months regular groups over the last few months regular groups over the last few months and they're continuing and they're continuing and they're continuing i think the key is i think the key is i think the key is getting creative with your online groups getting creative with your online groups getting creative with your online groups uh having uh having uh having the right expectations for what an the right expectations for what an the right expectations for what an online group can do online group can do online group can do and accomplish and then giving your and accomplish and then giving your and accomplish and then giving your leaders the right tools and training leaders the right tools and training leaders the right tools and training when it comes to leading a successful when it comes to leading a successful when it comes to leading a successful online group because it's not the same online group because it's not the same online group because it's not the same it's not the same as leading a group of it's not the same as leading a group of it's not the same as leading a group of 12 to 16 people in your living room 12 to 16 people in your living room 12 to 16 people in your living room when you're on zoom it's a different when you're on zoom it's a different when you're on zoom it's a different format you know there are different format you know there are different format you know there are different signs there's different body languages signs there's different body languages signs there's different body languages all of these things and so we have to all of these things and so we have to all of these things and so we have to train we have to equip them give them train we have to equip them give them train we have to equip them give them the curriculum has to be different i the curriculum has to be different i the curriculum has to be different i don't think you can just take don't think you can just take don't think you can just take a you know a book and suddenly transfer a you know a book and suddenly transfer a you know a book and suddenly transfer it to online you've got to get creative it to online you've got to get creative it to online you've got to get creative with that but with that but with that but all of that said i think that churches all of that said i think that churches all of that said i think that churches are paving the way are paving the way are paving the way for what could be at least a piece of for what could be at least a piece of for what could be at least a piece of discipleship in the future discipleship in the future discipleship in the future so so yeah thank you and i agree with

so so yeah thank you and i agree with so so yeah thank you and i agree with you you you you ca there are limitations in zoom you ca there are limitations in zoom you ca there are limitations in zoom right only one person can really talk right only one person can really talk right only one person can really talk you know otherwise you're talking over you know otherwise you're talking over you know otherwise you're talking over each other and nobody hears anything and each other and nobody hears anything and each other and nobody hears anything and we just understand that in person so we just understand that in person so we just understand that in person so much different what are some of the much different what are some of the much different what are some of the creative things that you guys have been creative things that you guys have been creative things that you guys have been that you've seen evidence of or that that you've seen evidence of or that that you've seen evidence of or that maybe you're helping maybe you're helping maybe you're helping churches understand how do you be churches understand how do you be churches understand how do you be creative in this setting with creative in this setting with creative in this setting with small groups yeah like i said small groups yeah like i said small groups yeah like i said you can't just approach it as we're you can't just approach it as we're you can't just approach it as we're gonna take our in-person group and gonna take our in-person group and gonna take our in-person group and suddenly do it online suddenly do it online suddenly do it online so there are you know there's little so there are you know there's little so there are you know there's little training cues that i think we can learn training cues that i think we can learn training cues that i think we can learn from the business world from the business world from the business world um for instance lifeway has actually um for instance lifeway has actually um for instance lifeway has actually been in the zoom world for been in the zoom world for been in the zoom world for like three or four years i mean we have like three or four years i mean we have like three or four years i mean we have a team member on my team that lives in a team member on my team that lives in a team member on my team that lives in dallas texas has lived there for dallas texas has lived there for dallas texas has lived there for a couple of years and so all of our a couple of years and so all of our a couple of years and so all of our meetings involve meetings involve meetings involve a screen and a people's group of people a screen and a people's group of people a screen and a people's group of people sitting around table so sitting around table so sitting around table so you know we have learned that you have you know we have learned that you have you know we have learned that you have to involve people more that are to involve people more that are to involve people more that are on zoom on the screen you have to call on zoom on the screen you have to call on zoom on the screen you have to call on them on them on them more than you would an in-person group more than you would an in-person group more than you would an in-person group you have to can't just be static you you have to can't just be static you you have to can't just be static you know i've learned this from know i've learned this from know i've learned this from my own group our group went online like my own group our group went online like my own group our group went online like everybody else when everybody else when everybody else when nashville shut down back in march and so nashville shut down back in march and so nashville shut down back in march and so we started doing online meetings we started doing online meetings we started doing online meetings i quickly learned that people aren't i quickly learned that people aren't i quickly learned that people aren't just going to speak up just going to speak up just going to speak up during during a zoom time now if they during during a zoom time now if they during during a zoom time now if they are you don't really want them on the are you don't really want them on the are you don't really want them on the call because they're going to dominate call because they're going to dominate call because they're going to dominate right right right and so you know i learned to hey jason

and so you know i learned to hey jason and so you know i learned to hey jason what do you think about this you know what do you think about this you know what do you think about this you know and to call on somebody and to look for and to call on somebody and to look for and to call on somebody and to look for the body language that they're the body language that they're the body language that they're engaged and so you know i've talked to engaged and so you know i've talked to engaged and so you know i've talked to some groups pastors that have gotten some groups pastors that have gotten some groups pastors that have gotten really creative with really creative with really creative with you know having online communion with you know having online communion with you know having online communion with your group and your group and your group and uh doing ice breakers that work well uh doing ice breakers that work well uh doing ice breakers that work well online like online like online like show us something in your house right show us something in your house right show us something in your house right now that that says something about you now that that says something about you now that that says something about you and so they'll take their zoom camera and so they'll take their zoom camera and so they'll take their zoom camera and you know they'll go find something and you know they'll go find something and you know they'll go find something in their house and this is something in their house and this is something in their house and this is something you'd never be able you'd never be able you'd never be able to do before i was i participated in an to do before i was i participated in an to do before i was i participated in an online online online uh conference where they used a format uh conference where they used a format uh conference where they used a format where you sent people to breakout rooms where you sent people to breakout rooms where you sent people to breakout rooms and they had an icebreaker and they and they had an icebreaker and they and they had an icebreaker and they talked about them for talked about them for talked about them for like four or five minutes and then came like four or five minutes and then came like four or five minutes and then came back to the group and i thought that's a back to the group and i thought that's a back to the group and i thought that's a clever way to use ice breakers clever way to use ice breakers clever way to use ice breakers in a group time because we all use ice in a group time because we all use ice in a group time because we all use ice breakers and it's normally all of us breakers and it's normally all of us breakers and it's normally all of us sitting around sitting around sitting around well on zoom that's not comfortable so well on zoom that's not comfortable so well on zoom that's not comfortable so utilizing breakout rooms for those those utilizing breakout rooms for those those utilizing breakout rooms for those those times also utilizing breakout rooms for times also utilizing breakout rooms for times also utilizing breakout rooms for prayer prayer prayer you know breaking up into three or four you know breaking up into three or four you know breaking up into three or four people within the group so they can pray people within the group so they can pray people within the group so they can pray for certain needs and so yeah i've seen for certain needs and so yeah i've seen for certain needs and so yeah i've seen a lot of just a lot of just a lot of just creative ways to utilize technology creative ways to utilize technology creative ways to utilize technology for discipleship and it's actually kind for discipleship and it's actually kind for discipleship and it's actually kind of exciting of exciting of exciting yeah i agree with that uh i think that's yeah i agree with that uh i think that's yeah i agree with that uh i think that's and and what's cool about that is you and and what's cool about that is you and and what's cool about that is you can can can you can sort of test drive a small group you can sort of test drive a small group you can sort of test drive a small group without without without you know showing up in it being awkward you know showing up in it being awkward you know showing up in it being awkward if it doesn't if it's not a fit for it if it doesn't if it's not a fit for it if it doesn't if it's not a fit for it for a new person for a new person for a new person right or even just kind of watching and

right or even just kind of watching and right or even just kind of watching and being able to see what is a smog being able to see what is a smog being able to see what is a smog really about you know it's i think really about you know it's i think really about you know it's i think there's i think it's just a lot of there's i think it's just a lot of there's i think it's just a lot of benefits especially benefits especially benefits especially for from our world we're always trying for from our world we're always trying for from our world we're always trying to help churches reach unchurched people to help churches reach unchurched people to help churches reach unchurched people and get them connected what a great way and get them connected what a great way and get them connected what a great way to do that to do that to do that especially if it's all if it's a small especially if it's all if it's a small especially if it's all if it's a small group that's has a focus like a divorce group that's has a focus like a divorce group that's has a focus like a divorce recovery or recovery or recovery or addictions or whatever those are addictions or whatever those are addictions or whatever those are fantastic ways to fantastic ways to fantastic ways to get people who are not comfortable going get people who are not comfortable going get people who are not comfortable going to church or being around church people to church or being around church people to church or being around church people but but but hey online they had nothing nothing to hey online they had nothing nothing to hey online they had nothing nothing to lose lose lose it really is i mean i we noticed i do it really is i mean i we noticed i do it really is i mean i we noticed i do some consulting with churches some consulting with churches some consulting with churches and one thing that we've noticed is most and one thing that we've noticed is most and one thing that we've noticed is most people will this is pretty pandemic people will this is pretty pandemic people will this is pretty pandemic but most people will check out the but most people will check out the but most people will check out the church through the website church through the website church through the website at least probably four or five times at least probably four or five times at least probably four or five times before they actually attend before they actually attend before they actually attend a service so why aren't we grabbing them a service so why aren't we grabbing them a service so why aren't we grabbing them when where they are which is checking when where they are which is checking when where they are which is checking out the website so always before out the website so always before out the website so always before you know it would be check out the you know it would be check out the you know it would be check out the website and then come to us website and then come to us website and then come to us come to our worship service go to that come to our worship service go to that come to our worship service go to that group that meets in some home that you group that meets in some home that you group that meets in some home that you you've never met these people you've never met these people you've never met these people you know that was that was our you know that was that was our you know that was that was our invitation well now the invitation is invitation well now the invitation is invitation well now the invitation is click this link click this link click this link click this link to watch a service click click this link to watch a service click click this link to watch a service click this link this link this link to join a small group or to check out a to join a small group or to check out a to join a small group or to check out a small group and i love the language of small group and i love the language of small group and i love the language of you don't have to join why don't you you don't have to join why don't you you don't have to join why don't you just check out this group just check out this group just check out this group it's just a link it's a zoom link and it's just a link it's a zoom link and it's just a link it's a zoom link and you can have groups that are especially you can have groups that are especially you can have groups that are especially designed for that designed for that designed for that and so they're more kind of open to new and so they're more kind of open to new and so they're more kind of open to new people dropping in people dropping in people dropping in getting a taste of what it's like to be

getting a taste of what it's like to be getting a taste of what it's like to be in a community and maybe they get in a community and maybe they get in a community and maybe they get recommended to another group if there's recommended to another group if there's recommended to another group if there's something that's fitting for them something that's fitting for them something that's fitting for them but just having this open invitation but just having this open invitation but just having this open invitation that's where people are already which that's where people are already which that's where people are already which especially now especially now especially now people are online and checking out your people are online and checking out your people are online and checking out your church that way yeah church that way yeah church that way yeah well i know you don't have a crystal well i know you don't have a crystal well i know you don't have a crystal ball to look into the future but ball to look into the future but ball to look into the future but uh being a church lead you know a church uh being a church lead you know a church uh being a church lead you know a church staff leader and now you're staff leader and now you're staff leader and now you're consulting with churches when you think consulting with churches when you think consulting with churches when you think about the future um about the future um about the future um and where where we're going where is the and where where we're going where is the and where where we're going where is the church going to go church going to go church going to go when it comes to this discipleship thing when it comes to this discipleship thing when it comes to this discipleship thing and onboarding people and onboarding people and onboarding people is it a hybrid of the two do you or do is it a hybrid of the two do you or do is it a hybrid of the two do you or do you think more church is going to you think more church is going to you think more church is going to gravitate more towards online and that gravitate more towards online and that gravitate more towards online and that being the best way to engage people or being the best way to engage people or being the best way to engage people or what's your i mean or we can go back to what's your i mean or we can go back to what's your i mean or we can go back to in person and yeah in person and yeah in person and yeah i think it's all of the above i i really i think it's all of the above i i really i think it's all of the above i i really do do do um but i do think that if you think that um but i do think that if you think that um but i do think that if you think that the vaccines are going to come the vaccines are going to come the vaccines are going to come and everything's going to go back to the and everything's going to go back to the and everything's going to go back to the way it was i don't way it was i don't way it was i don't believe that's the way it's going to be believe that's the way it's going to be believe that's the way it's going to be i don't think we can just flip the i don't think we can just flip the i don't think we can just flip the switch switch switch and things are back because people have and things are back because people have and things are back because people have new habits new habits new habits you know i i have new habits you know i you know i i have new habits you know i you know i i have new habits you know i don't i don't go into the office anymore don't i don't go into the office anymore don't i don't go into the office anymore i work from home i work from home i work from home and so my entire morning routine looks and so my entire morning routine looks and so my entire morning routine looks different different different than it did nine months ago people have than it did nine months ago people have than it did nine months ago people have those same habit changes when it comes those same habit changes when it comes those same habit changes when it comes to to to going to a group attending church you going to a group attending church you going to a group attending church you know barna did some research know barna did some research know barna did some research that 30 of of people have that 30 of of people have that 30 of of people have quit attending church since the since

quit attending church since the since quit attending church since the since the crisis has the crisis has the crisis has begun and so i think a lot of that is begun and so i think a lot of that is begun and so i think a lot of that is just habits people have drifted we're just habits people have drifted we're just habits people have drifted we're seeing drift seeing drift seeing drift away from church drift away from away from church drift away from away from church drift away from discipleship and so we're going to need discipleship and so we're going to need discipleship and so we're going to need a wide net a wide net a wide net to be able to get people back and to get to be able to get people back and to get to be able to get people back and to get them back them back them back where they need to be so when it comes where they need to be so when it comes where they need to be so when it comes to groups to groups to groups do i think online is the future for do i think online is the future for do i think online is the future for every church no not necessarily i think every church no not necessarily i think every church no not necessarily i think a lot of it depends on a lot of it depends on a lot of it depends on where you are in the country right um where you are in the country right um where you are in the country right um for instance i have a good friend who's for instance i have a good friend who's for instance i have a good friend who's at a large church at a large church at a large church in texas in dallas they launched a lot in texas in dallas they launched a lot in texas in dallas they launched a lot of online groups at the beginning of of online groups at the beginning of of online groups at the beginning of this had some success this had some success this had some success texas open back up they don't have any texas open back up they don't have any texas open back up they don't have any online groups anymore nobody wants to do online groups anymore nobody wants to do online groups anymore nobody wants to do online groups because online groups because online groups because there's no restrictions to it and so there's no restrictions to it and so there's no restrictions to it and so they they they and they didn't really have a more of a and they didn't really have a more of a and they didn't really have a more of a national international reach national international reach national international reach and so they've pretty much gone back to and so they've pretty much gone back to and so they've pretty much gone back to in person with some modifications in person with some modifications in person with some modifications now i have friends in california who now i have friends in california who now i have friends in california who have have have had great success with online groups i i had great success with online groups i i had great success with online groups i i work with one church work with one church work with one church in california that has had great success in california that has had great success in california that has had great success with international groups they have more with international groups they have more with international groups they have more of an international of an international of an international known ministry and so they obviously are known ministry and so they obviously are known ministry and so they obviously are going to continue that that's going to going to continue that that's going to going to continue that that's going to be a part of who they are be a part of who they are be a part of who they are but i'm guessing they will have but i'm guessing they will have but i'm guessing they will have in-person groups so there'll be some in-person groups so there'll be some in-person groups so there'll be some type type type of hybrid i think even when it comes to of hybrid i think even when it comes to of hybrid i think even when it comes to uh uh uh maybe sunday school classes classes that maybe sunday school classes classes that maybe sunday school classes classes that meet at church during sunday meet at church during sunday meet at church during sunday they're going to need to think about they're going to need to think about they're going to need to think about those who are not ready to come back those who are not ready to come back those who are not ready to come back can they make their classes hybrid can can they make their classes hybrid can can they make their classes hybrid can they have you know a zoom

they have you know a zoom they have you know a zoom camera within the class so people who camera within the class so people who camera within the class so people who are not ready who are older maybe are not ready who are older maybe are not ready who are older maybe they can still attend they can still be they can still attend they can still be they can still attend they can still be a part of the class a part of the class a part of the class and so all of these things i think we're and so all of these things i think we're and so all of these things i think we're gonna have to think gonna have to think gonna have to think you know not just flip the switch we're you know not just flip the switch we're you know not just flip the switch we're back but how wide of a net can we throw back but how wide of a net can we throw back but how wide of a net can we throw out there out there out there we've got amazing tools that we've now we've got amazing tools that we've now we've got amazing tools that we've now discovered learn how to use discovered learn how to use discovered learn how to use now how can we focus them and reach now how can we focus them and reach now how can we focus them and reach people in a different way people in a different way people in a different way yeah i i agree with you i actually think yeah i i agree with you i actually think yeah i i agree with you i actually think it's it's uh it's it's uh it's it's uh it's enhances uh and just speaking with it's enhances uh and just speaking with it's enhances uh and just speaking with the church the church the church earlier you know i said hey before kovid earlier you know i said hey before kovid earlier you know i said hey before kovid your attendance was like what 1.5 times your attendance was like what 1.5 times your attendance was like what 1.5 times a month of family would attend on a month of family would attend on a month of family would attend on average average average and now you're getting that family to and now you're getting that family to and now you're getting that family to come once a month but they're maybe come once a month but they're maybe come once a month but they're maybe watching two or three other weekends watching two or three other weekends watching two or three other weekends right so they're really much more right so they're really much more right so they're really much more engaged just not in person engaged just not in person engaged just not in person and he's like yeah you're right that's and he's like yeah you're right that's and he's like yeah you're right that's actually i'm like you wouldn't want to actually i'm like you wouldn't want to actually i'm like you wouldn't want to go back to the 1.5 go back to the 1.5 go back to the 1.5 you want to try and grow it to like two you want to try and grow it to like two you want to try and grow it to like two or three or three or three or even greater and so this is a way to or even greater and so this is a way to or even greater and so this is a way to do that and do that and do that and i kind of agree with you i think there's i kind of agree with you i think there's i kind of agree with you i think there's a hybrid between the two and uh a hybrid between the two and uh a hybrid between the two and uh just being creative on how you might be just being creative on how you might be just being creative on how you might be able to able to able to engage people um yeah we've seen that in engage people um yeah we've seen that in engage people um yeah we've seen that in our family our our family our our family our we have actually attended online church we have actually attended online church we have actually attended online church since this all started since this all started since this all started um nashville was crazy because right um nashville was crazy because right um nashville was crazy because right before the pandemic hit here we had a before the pandemic hit here we had a before the pandemic hit here we had a tornado that actually came through our tornado that actually came through our tornado that actually came through our city hit my neighborhood city hit my neighborhood city hit my neighborhood i'm in germantown which is right i'm in germantown which is right i'm in germantown which is right downtown took out our downtown took out our downtown took out our main campus of the church that we we

main campus of the church that we we main campus of the church that we we serve and attend serve and attend serve and attend and so they couldn't have services and so they couldn't have services and so they couldn't have services whether pandemic or not for a long time whether pandemic or not for a long time whether pandemic or not for a long time and so they started doing online and so they started doing online and so they started doing online and so we we've been attending online and so we we've been attending online and so we we've been attending online since we attend every single week we since we attend every single week we since we attend every single week we watch watch watch 10 o'clock to 11 o'clock what's amazing 10 o'clock to 11 o'clock what's amazing 10 o'clock to 11 o'clock what's amazing is is is um we watch as a family i have two girls um we watch as a family i have two girls um we watch as a family i have two girls one that's 22 one the 17 one that's 22 one the 17 one that's 22 one the 17 and they're both doing school from home and they're both doing school from home and they're both doing school from home right now and we have a conversation right now and we have a conversation right now and we have a conversation immediately following the service that immediately following the service that immediately following the service that we never had before we never had before we never had before because we're sitting on our couch and because we're sitting on our couch and because we're sitting on our couch and so we'll sit there and talk for 15 20 so we'll sit there and talk for 15 20 so we'll sit there and talk for 15 20 minutes minutes minutes about the message well pre-pandemic about the message well pre-pandemic about the message well pre-pandemic we we tend a large church so trying to we we tend a large church so trying to we we tend a large church so trying to get out get out get out to our car was an ordeal trying to get to our car was an ordeal trying to get to our car was an ordeal trying to get out of the parking lot was an out of the parking lot was an out of the parking lot was an ordeal which restaurant are we going to ordeal which restaurant are we going to ordeal which restaurant are we going to go to for lunch by the time you get to go to for lunch by the time you get to go to for lunch by the time you get to lunch you've forgotten what the message lunch you've forgotten what the message lunch you've forgotten what the message was was was [Laughter] [Laughter] [Laughter] i actually you know i miss worshiping i actually you know i miss worshiping i actually you know i miss worshiping with people i'll be honest i'll go back with people i'll be honest i'll go back with people i'll be honest i'll go back to that i do want to worship with people to that i do want to worship with people to that i do want to worship with people but there has been something added to but there has been something added to but there has been something added to our family discipleship our family discipleship our family discipleship with the online experience that i with the online experience that i with the online experience that i wouldn't have expected wouldn't have expected wouldn't have expected i i'm the same way chris i have two i i'm the same way chris i have two i i'm the same way chris i have two teenage boys teenage boys teenage boys and so for the longest time we would and so for the longest time we would and so for the longest time we would just chill in the family room just chill in the family room just chill in the family room and talk you know what what'd you think and talk you know what what'd you think and talk you know what what'd you think when he said that or when he said that or when he said that or would you get out of this and that was would you get out of this and that was would you get out of this and that was some of the best some of the best some of the best moments that we've ever had because just moments that we've ever had because just moments that we've ever had because just like you said we're we're too busy going like you said we're we're too busy going like you said we're we're too busy going we got to get out of here we got to get out of here we got to get out of here got plans for sunday and and my oldest got plans for sunday and and my oldest got plans for sunday and and my oldest drive so it's like okay he's going off drive so it's like okay he's going off drive so it's like okay he's going off to his car to his car to his car and we're going after our car and now we

and we're going after our car and now we and we're going after our car and now we can actually do that you know and can actually do that you know and can actually do that you know and we are actually going back to in person we are actually going back to in person we are actually going back to in person a little bit but a little bit but a little bit but we're walking away as we drive home we're walking away as we drive home we're walking away as we drive home going okay what are two things that you going okay what are two things that you going okay what are two things that you learned let's talk learned let's talk learned let's talk so they know that those questions are so they know that those questions are so they know that those questions are gonna come from mom and dad and we're gonna come from mom and dad and we're gonna come from mom and dad and we're gonna share gonna share gonna share just something we've never really done just something we've never really done just something we've never really done before because we're in such a race to before because we're in such a race to before because we're in such a race to get onto our day and so i i yeah i get onto our day and so i i yeah i get onto our day and so i i yeah i and i also think uh i was always hoping and i also think uh i was always hoping and i also think uh i was always hoping our church would our church would our church would in the online experience say okay in the online experience say okay in the online experience say okay parents we're going to hand it off to parents we're going to hand it off to parents we're going to hand it off to you you you right and give you some things to talk right and give you some things to talk right and give you some things to talk about as a group about as a group about as a group even if it's a family or even a small even if it's a family or even a small even if it's a family or even a small group you don't have to just watch and group you don't have to just watch and group you don't have to just watch and then turn it off and then turn it off and then turn it off and walk away you can still have some more walk away you can still have some more walk away you can still have some more almost like a continued small group almost like a continued small group almost like a continued small group yeah i've seen some churches do that yeah i've seen some churches do that yeah i've seen some churches do that well they'll put well they'll put well they'll put some discussion questions following the some discussion questions following the some discussion questions following the message and i think that's brilliant i message and i think that's brilliant i message and i think that's brilliant i mean that's just mean that's just mean that's just again that's grabbing people where they again that's grabbing people where they again that's grabbing people where they are when they're are when they're are when they're watching also i think something that's watching also i think something that's watching also i think something that's smart is a lot of churches in our smart is a lot of churches in our smart is a lot of churches in our churches do it are churches do it are churches do it are is doing this is producing a different is doing this is producing a different is doing this is producing a different experience for online experience for online experience for online than they are in person yeah and so we than they are in person yeah and so we than they are in person yeah and so we have pre-produced worship have pre-produced worship have pre-produced worship because honestly when you watch services because honestly when you watch services because honestly when you watch services online pre-pandemic online pre-pandemic online pre-pandemic i mean the message was fine but the i mean the message was fine but the i mean the message was fine but the worship never comes through worship never comes through worship never comes through no it's never great even in nashville no it's never great even in nashville no it's never great even in nashville where the music is unbelievable where the music is unbelievable where the music is unbelievable it's just not the same so they produce it's just not the same so they produce it's just not the same so they produce pre-produced worship pre-produced worship pre-produced worship um the message is actually taught for um the message is actually taught for um the message is actually taught for the online audience it's not just the online audience it's not just the online audience it's not just our pastor sitting on stage and i think our pastor sitting on stage and i think our pastor sitting on stage and i think that's really smart

that's really smart that's really smart because they're speaking to an audience because they're speaking to an audience because they're speaking to an audience that has obviously grown that has obviously grown that has obviously grown in the last nine months and probably in the last nine months and probably in the last nine months and probably isn't going away anytime soon isn't going away anytime soon isn't going away anytime soon well and and what we like to do and tell well and and what we like to do and tell well and and what we like to do and tell churches is hey churches is hey churches is hey just because you're a week removed that just because you're a week removed that just because you're a week removed that message can live on message can live on message can live on you've got all these weeks and all this you've got all these weeks and all this you've got all these weeks and all this amazing content amazing content amazing content get it out there right so so people get it out there right so so people get it out there right so so people could watch on demand could watch on demand could watch on demand on their own time from a sermon from on their own time from a sermon from on their own time from a sermon from three months ago three months ago three months ago you know in the old days pre coveted you know in the old days pre coveted you know in the old days pre coveted they would just put it online and they would just put it online and they would just put it online and eventually eventually eventually people would not watch it because it people would not watch it because it people would not watch it because it gets so far down the page on the website gets so far down the page on the website gets so far down the page on the website but if they think differently they can but if they think differently they can but if they think differently they can use it and use google to help use it and use google to help use it and use google to help push it out there that's that's what push it out there that's that's what push it out there that's that's what we'd like to teach so we'd like to teach so we'd like to teach so exactly i was talking to a pastor this exactly i was talking to a pastor this exactly i was talking to a pastor this is a few months ago is a few months ago is a few months ago and he was only they were only streaming and he was only they were only streaming and he was only they were only streaming it during the hour that they were having it during the hour that they were having it during the hour that they were having service service service i said you are missing because i don't i said you are missing because i don't i said you are missing because i don't know about you but we never watch a tv know about you but we never watch a tv know about you but we never watch a tv show when it actually airs anymore show when it actually airs anymore show when it actually airs anymore almost never who does that no because almost never who does that no because almost never who does that no because you have to sit through commercials you have to sit through commercials you have to sit through commercials yeah you know and you have to plan your yeah you know and you have to plan your yeah you know and you have to plan your night around it we always watch either night around it we always watch either night around it we always watch either later later later another day well that's how people are another day well that's how people are another day well that's how people are are going to be with church services are going to be with church services are going to be with church services so if you're not giving them multiple so if you're not giving them multiple so if you're not giving them multiple opportunities on youtube you're missing opportunities on youtube you're missing opportunities on youtube you're missing a lot of people that to me is a uh a lot of people that to me is a uh a lot of people that to me is a uh they're coming off of they're coming off of they're coming off of a a position of fear that if we a a position of fear that if we a a position of fear that if we create this great online experience no create this great online experience no create this great online experience no one's going to show up in person one's going to show up in person one's going to show up in person i'm like we we serve a bigger god than i'm like we we serve a bigger god than i'm like we we serve a bigger god than that you know we have to recognize that you know we have to recognize that you know we have to recognize things are changing and he things are changing and he things are changing and he he's behind something here and so i

he's behind something here and so i he's behind something here and so i guess i just always push back on that a guess i just always push back on that a guess i just always push back on that a little bit for pastors go now little bit for pastors go now little bit for pastors go now have a bigger picture have some have have a bigger picture have some have have a bigger picture have some have some faith some faith some faith that your church is going to continue to that your church is going to continue to that your church is going to continue to to grow and expand to grow and expand to grow and expand uh either in person or online hopefully uh either in person or online hopefully uh either in person or online hopefully the same thing the same thing the same thing yeah and same thing with online yeah and same thing with online yeah and same thing with online discipleship i think there has been discipleship i think there has been discipleship i think there has been fear that we can't disciple people fear that we can't disciple people fear that we can't disciple people online online online that it's a surface medium um that it's a surface medium um that it's a surface medium um people are not going to grow or change people are not going to grow or change people are not going to grow or change well we have seen proof now over the well we have seen proof now over the well we have seen proof now over the last nine months that that's not true last nine months that that's not true last nine months that that's not true that people can grow and be discipled that people can grow and be discipled that people can grow and be discipled online so don't be afraid of it online so don't be afraid of it online so don't be afraid of it have that as an option well you know you have that as an option well you know you have that as an option well you know you said that earlier and what i what came said that earlier and what i what came said that earlier and what i what came to my mind was to my mind was to my mind was well the onus is on you well the onus is on you well the onus is on you it's not my job as a pastor to help you it's not my job as a pastor to help you it's not my job as a pastor to help you grow in your faith grow in your faith grow in your faith i got to give you tools so you can grow i got to give you tools so you can grow i got to give you tools so you can grow in your faith it's on you it's in your faith it's on you it's in your faith it's on you it's own your faith you know that's that's own your faith you know that's that's own your faith you know that's that's never going to change never going to change never going to change rather if you're in person or online or rather if you're in person or online or rather if you're in person or online or wherever wherever wherever that you have to own your faith but as that you have to own your faith but as that you have to own your faith but as churches give them these tools churches give them these tools churches give them these tools and these creative methods about how to and these creative methods about how to and these creative methods about how to how to do that how to do that how to do that it still goes to reading praying serving it still goes to reading praying serving it still goes to reading praying serving giving giving giving you know all this it's not it's not a you know all this it's not it's not a you know all this it's not it's not a mystery we understand what it what it mystery we understand what it what it mystery we understand what it what it means to means to means to to follow and uh discipleship doesn't to follow and uh discipleship doesn't to follow and uh discipleship doesn't really change but the method on how you really change but the method on how you really change but the method on how you maybe deliver it does maybe deliver it does maybe deliver it does exactly that's good so so uh exactly that's good so so uh exactly that's good so so uh tell me a little bit about like who who tell me a little bit about like who who tell me a little bit about like who who are you learning from these days like are you learning from these days like are you learning from these days like what books are you reading or what books are you reading or what books are you reading or what podcasts i mean you're doing a lot what podcasts i mean you're doing a lot what podcasts i mean you're doing a lot you're you're absorbing a lot and you're

you're you're absorbing a lot and you're you're you're absorbing a lot and you're now teaching what's something that now teaching what's something that now teaching what's something that you're doing to continue to learn you're doing to continue to learn you're doing to continue to learn yeah always trying to learn i think most yeah always trying to learn i think most yeah always trying to learn i think most of my learnings right now honestly are of my learnings right now honestly are of my learnings right now honestly are from local church practitioners that i'm from local church practitioners that i'm from local church practitioners that i'm talking to talking to talking to because they are the ones that are in because they are the ones that are in because they are the ones that are in the trenches yeah the trenches yeah the trenches yeah um you know i see a lot of and i do some um you know i see a lot of and i do some um you know i see a lot of and i do some of this as well but i see a lot of of this as well but i see a lot of of this as well but i see a lot of people saying this is how you get people saying this is how you get people saying this is how you get through covid through covid through covid this is how you grow your church through this is how you grow your church through this is how you grow your church through a pandemic a pandemic a pandemic i don't think any of us were around for i don't think any of us were around for i don't think any of us were around for the last one in 1918 the last one in 1918 the last one in 1918 1919 so i don't think we really know 1919 so i don't think we really know 1919 so i don't think we really know you know i think the ones that are you know i think the ones that are you know i think the ones that are figuring it out are the ones that are figuring it out are the ones that are figuring it out are the ones that are doing it doing it doing it and on the ground and so i'm learning a and on the ground and so i'm learning a and on the ground and so i'm learning a lot from lot from lot from from those guys i mean like i said from those guys i mean like i said from those guys i mean like i said earlier my friend dave ends earlier my friend dave ends earlier my friend dave ends just talking to him in california and just talking to him in california and just talking to him in california and what they're going through and they're what they're going through and they're what they're going through and they're doing some creative stuff doing some creative stuff doing some creative stuff got another friend in manhattan at got another friend in manhattan at got another friend in manhattan at church of the city uh church of the city uh church of the city uh new york city and you know they new york city and you know they new york city and you know they obviously have had a very tough obviously have had a very tough obviously have had a very tough experience but they have experience but they have experience but they have grown their groups through the last uh grown their groups through the last uh grown their groups through the last uh nine months they're reaching people that nine months they're reaching people that nine months they're reaching people that they would have never reached before they would have never reached before they would have never reached before they're reaching people that were on they're reaching people that were on they're reaching people that were on broadway that broadway that broadway that had careers on broadway and suddenly had careers on broadway and suddenly had careers on broadway and suddenly lost everything lost everything lost everything kind of like a nashville in the music kind of like a nashville in the music kind of like a nashville in the music business here and they were looking for business here and they were looking for business here and they were looking for something and so they started reaching something and so they started reaching something and so they started reaching out to the church out to the church out to the church and joining groups and wanting something and joining groups and wanting something and joining groups and wanting something so you know i'm learning from so you know i'm learning from so you know i'm learning from from them i've not got another friend in from them i've not got another friend in from them i've not got another friend in chicago chicago chicago that has been able to grow the ministry that has been able to grow the ministry that has been able to grow the ministry there and so really there and so really there and so really that's who i'm learning from or the that's who i'm learning from or the that's who i'm learning from or the people that are in the trenches

people that are in the trenches people that are in the trenches doing the work inner testing and doing the work inner testing and doing the work inner testing and experimenting experimenting experimenting and figuring out what works and what and figuring out what works and what and figuring out what works and what doesn't work and let's go forward and doesn't work and let's go forward and doesn't work and let's go forward and then hopefully i'm able to then hopefully i'm able to then hopefully i'm able to synthesize that a little bit through my synthesize that a little bit through my synthesize that a little bit through my podcast and share it with the people podcast and share it with the people podcast and share it with the people around me but yeah that's my around me but yeah that's my around me but yeah that's my relationship with relationship with relationship with church leaders has grown definitely church leaders has grown definitely church leaders has grown definitely during this pandemic and i'm during this pandemic and i'm during this pandemic and i'm so thankful for it and then you know i'm so thankful for it and then you know i'm so thankful for it and then you know i'm i'm reading different books there's a i'm reading different books there's a i'm reading different books there's a book that book that book that has really influenced me that was has really influenced me that was has really influenced me that was written pre-pandemic but it feels like written pre-pandemic but it feels like written pre-pandemic but it feels like uh it could have been written right in uh it could have been written right in uh it could have been written right in the middle of it and that's um the middle of it and that's um the middle of it and that's um how do you canoe over a mountain or how do you canoe over a mountain or how do you canoe over a mountain or canoeing over mountains and it's canoeing over mountains and it's canoeing over mountains and it's about the story of lewis and clark when about the story of lewis and clark when about the story of lewis and clark when they sat they sat they sat out and they thought they're going to be out and they thought they're going to be out and they thought they're going to be able to canoe all the way across able to canoe all the way across able to canoe all the way across america to the other side and they hit america to the other side and they hit america to the other side and they hit this thing called the rocky mountains this thing called the rocky mountains this thing called the rocky mountains and suddenly they figured out okay we and suddenly they figured out okay we and suddenly they figured out okay we got to do something different got to do something different got to do something different and so they literally burned and chopped and so they literally burned and chopped and so they literally burned and chopped up their canoes up their canoes up their canoes found some horses and became mountain found some horses and became mountain found some horses and became mountain climbers and climbed over the mountains climbers and climbed over the mountains climbers and climbed over the mountains to the other side to get to the pacific to the other side to get to the pacific to the other side to get to the pacific and what a beautiful picture of what and what a beautiful picture of what and what a beautiful picture of what we're doing right now we're doing right now we're doing right now we've hit the rocky mountains kovid 19 we've hit the rocky mountains kovid 19 we've hit the rocky mountains kovid 19 has shut down has shut down has shut down the old ways of doing things you know the old ways of doing things you know the old ways of doing things you know and we can either hope that we'll and we can either hope that we'll and we can either hope that we'll eventually be able to canoe uphill and eventually be able to canoe uphill and eventually be able to canoe uphill and over the mountains over the mountains over the mountains or we can find new methods and find our or we can find new methods and find our or we can find new methods and find our horses horses horses and so that's been a good influence on and so that's been a good influence on and so that's been a good influence on me as well oh me as well oh me as well oh i gotta agree with you too i i'm we i gotta agree with you too i i'm we i gotta agree with you too i i'm we talking a lot of churches i'm listening talking a lot of churches i'm listening talking a lot of churches i'm listening to what pastors it doesn't matter what to what pastors it doesn't matter what to what pastors it doesn't matter what size of church you're in i mean we're

size of church you're in i mean we're size of church you're in i mean we're all on the same page here right there all on the same page here right there all on the same page here right there are no experts we're all just trying to are no experts we're all just trying to are no experts we're all just trying to learn it learn it learn it i was really encouraged by a small i was really encouraged by a small i was really encouraged by a small church in texas church in texas church in texas that they did a men's ministry uh like a that they did a men's ministry uh like a that they did a men's ministry uh like a men's men's men's uh instead of a men's conference where uh instead of a men's conference where uh instead of a men's conference where they'd go away for you know weekend they they'd go away for you know weekend they they'd go away for you know weekend they decided let's get together for decided let's get together for decided let's get together for for one day and let's have a big for one day and let's have a big for one day and let's have a big challenge for the full challenge for the full challenge for the full week every day they had things they had week every day they had things they had week every day they had things they had to do and they had to record themselves to do and they had to record themselves to do and they had to record themselves doing it and send it to the you know doing it and send it to the you know doing it and send it to the you know send it to the to the group send it to the to the group send it to the to the group and they they just that thing exploded and they they just that thing exploded and they they just that thing exploded they got more and more guys coming by they got more and more guys coming by they got more and more guys coming by and they were actually giving away and they were actually giving away and they were actually giving away prizes and having a lot of fun with it prizes and having a lot of fun with it prizes and having a lot of fun with it it turned out to be an it turned out to be an it turned out to be an amazing guy experience and something amazing guy experience and something amazing guy experience and something that they would have never thought to do that they would have never thought to do that they would have never thought to do before the pandemic and and so just before the pandemic and and so just before the pandemic and and so just you're going wow you're going wow you're going wow he goes yeah we just tried it we we he goes yeah we just tried it we we he goes yeah we just tried it we we might we didn't know if we're gonna fail might we didn't know if we're gonna fail might we didn't know if we're gonna fail we didn't we didn't know but we were we didn't we didn't know but we were we didn't we didn't know but we were just gonna try it just gonna try it just gonna try it and i'm like those are the those are the and i'm like those are the those are the and i'm like those are the those are the kind of the heroes the experts if you kind of the heroes the experts if you kind of the heroes the experts if you will because they're in the grind right will because they're in the grind right will because they're in the grind right now now now and they're learning and then sharing and they're learning and then sharing and they're learning and then sharing that with others hey this works and that with others hey this works and that with others hey this works and don't do this and don't do this and don't do this and that's how we're going to get through that's how we're going to get through that's how we're going to get through this i think exactly i this i think exactly i this i think exactly i the churches that seem to be having some the churches that seem to be having some the churches that seem to be having some success and success and success and growing in in areas during this so the growing in in areas during this so the growing in in areas during this so the churches that churches that churches that annie stanley has said this instead of annie stanley has said this instead of annie stanley has said this instead of focusing on what you can't do let's focusing on what you can't do let's focusing on what you can't do let's focus on what we can do focus on what we can do focus on what we can do and so they're looking at for instance and so they're looking at for instance and so they're looking at for instance saddleback in southern california saddleback in southern california saddleback in southern california they decided we can serve so we can they decided we can serve so we can they decided we can serve so we can serve our community there's a lot of serve our community there's a lot of serve our community there's a lot of people hurting they're out of work people hurting they're out of work people hurting they're out of work and so they actually became the largest

and so they actually became the largest and so they actually became the largest food bank in southern california food bank in southern california food bank in southern california totally served by small groups serving totally served by small groups serving totally served by small groups serving their community their community their community just because they said we can serve we just because they said we can serve we just because they said we can serve we can do that we may not be able to meet can do that we may not be able to meet can do that we may not be able to meet in homes we may not be able to do what in homes we may not be able to do what in homes we may not be able to do what we used to but we can go out and serve we used to but we can go out and serve we used to but we can go out and serve and those are the churches and those are the churches and those are the churches and that's who i'm learning from yeah and that's who i'm learning from yeah and that's who i'm learning from yeah yeah that's amazing yeah that's amazing yeah that's amazing well tell me a little bit about the the well tell me a little bit about the the well tell me a little bit about the the podcast that you co-host podcast that you co-host podcast that you co-host yeah it's called group answers i co-host yeah it's called group answers i co-host yeah it's called group answers i co-host it with a friend of mine at lifeway it with a friend of mine at lifeway it with a friend of mine at lifeway brian daniel brian daniel brian daniel and we've been doing it for about four and we've been doing it for about four and we've been doing it for about four four and a half years and it's just a four and a half years and it's just a four and a half years and it's just a lot of fun and it's lot of fun and it's lot of fun and it's it's for equipping and training group it's for equipping and training group it's for equipping and training group leaders leaders leaders group pastors in just different methods group pastors in just different methods group pastors in just different methods and ways of discipleship and really i and ways of discipleship and really i and ways of discipleship and really i see ourselves right now as a mouthpiece see ourselves right now as a mouthpiece see ourselves right now as a mouthpiece for for for all of the churches that are out there all of the churches that are out there all of the churches that are out there that we get to talk to that we get to talk to that we get to talk to in our position and so we interview a in our position and so we interview a in our position and so we interview a lot of lot of lot of groups pastors i'll have an interview groups pastors i'll have an interview groups pastors i'll have an interview coming up coming up coming up the first week of january with three one the first week of january with three one the first week of january with three one from california one from chicago one from california one from chicago one from california one from chicago one from new york from new york from new york just saying what have we learned and just saying what have we learned and just saying what have we learned and what are you going to continue what are you going to continue what are you going to continue doing over the next you know few months doing over the next you know few months doing over the next you know few months that you've learned from the last year that you've learned from the last year that you've learned from the last year and so we do a lot of that and it's fun and so we do a lot of that and it's fun and so we do a lot of that and it's fun we try to have fun with it we think we try to have fun with it we think we try to have fun with it we think we're funny we're funny we're funny we're probably not but at least at least we're probably not but at least at least we're probably not but at least at least we we we we have fun with it so yeah group we have fun with it so yeah group we have fun with it so yeah group answers it drops every week answers it drops every week answers it drops every week um normally on wednesdays okay how do um normally on wednesdays okay how do um normally on wednesdays okay how do people people people subscribe to that where do they go subscribe to that where do they go subscribe to that where do they go anywhere that you listen podcasts we're anywhere that you listen podcasts we're anywhere that you listen podcasts we're on on on obviously itunes spotify google play obviously itunes spotify google play obviously itunes spotify google play just search for group

just search for group just search for group answers and uh it should pop up okay answers and uh it should pop up okay answers and uh it should pop up okay and then um you've written some books and then um you've written some books and then um you've written some books yeah yeah yeah so tell me a little bit about your so tell me a little bit about your so tell me a little bit about your latest book sure latest book sure latest book sure um latest books called leading small um latest books called leading small um latest books called leading small groups groups groups and i wrote it because i felt like there and i wrote it because i felt like there and i wrote it because i felt like there was a need was a need was a need out there for potential group leaders out there for potential group leaders out there for potential group leaders that just needed a resource for how do i that just needed a resource for how do i that just needed a resource for how do i gather people you know how do i even gather people you know how do i even gather people you know how do i even invite people to my group invite people to my group invite people to my group how do i launch a group well because how do i launch a group well because how do i launch a group well because that's a big part of success that's a big part of success that's a big part of success is can we launch large or can we launch is can we launch large or can we launch is can we launch large or can we launch watch well watch well watch well and then how do i actually lead and so i and then how do i actually lead and so i and then how do i actually lead and so i have a section on have a section on have a section on you know hospitality and authenticity you know hospitality and authenticity you know hospitality and authenticity and serving and all these things that and serving and all these things that and serving and all these things that come in come in come in to leading and then a part that i don't to leading and then a part that i don't to leading and then a part that i don't see a lot of small groups move to is see a lot of small groups move to is see a lot of small groups move to is multiplication how do i multiplication how do i multiplication how do i multiply and multiply disciples by multiply and multiply disciples by multiply and multiply disciples by multiplying groups multiplying groups multiplying groups and so i wrote that book it's not a long and so i wrote that book it's not a long and so i wrote that book it's not a long book it's about 150 pages but i wanted book it's about 150 pages but i wanted book it's about 150 pages but i wanted a group's pastor or groups church leader a group's pastor or groups church leader a group's pastor or groups church leader to be able to hand it to their to be able to hand it to their to be able to hand it to their their leaders and say here's a handbook their leaders and say here's a handbook their leaders and say here's a handbook whatever stage that you're in whether whatever stage that you're in whether whatever stage that you're in whether you're just you're just you're just thinking about maybe i should start a thinking about maybe i should start a thinking about maybe i should start a small group or maybe you're just small group or maybe you're just small group or maybe you're just starting to lead how do i lead better starting to lead how do i lead better starting to lead how do i lead better or maybe you're at that point where you or maybe you're at that point where you or maybe you're at that point where you need to think about how do i multiply so need to think about how do i multiply so need to think about how do i multiply so i can create i can create i can create disciples who create disciples and they disciples who create disciples and they disciples who create disciples and they can just hand it to them can just hand it to them can just hand it to them and and use that book and so yeah that and and use that book and so yeah that and and use that book and so yeah that came out last year came out last year came out last year and uh it's been fun to watch a lot of and uh it's been fun to watch a lot of and uh it's been fun to watch a lot of churches have bought it for all their churches have bought it for all their churches have bought it for all their leaders and leaders and leaders and given it out to all their leaders and

given it out to all their leaders and given it out to all their leaders and and i just pray it's been helpful and i just pray it's been helpful and i just pray it's been helpful well what a timely book because i think well what a timely book because i think well what a timely book because i think um um um pastors if you're watching this and and pastors if you're watching this and and pastors if you're watching this and and now your responsibilities online pastor now your responsibilities online pastor now your responsibilities online pastor probably small groups falls under that a probably small groups falls under that a probably small groups falls under that a little bit of an element of it little bit of an element of it little bit of an element of it and so what a great book to get in your and so what a great book to get in your and so what a great book to get in your hands so that you can hands so that you can hands so that you can be creative as well on how to have a be creative as well on how to have a be creative as well on how to have a digital online small group and digital online small group and digital online small group and uh you can't just go about it the same uh you can't just go about it the same uh you can't just go about it the same way as chris was saying so you got to be way as chris was saying so you got to be way as chris was saying so you got to be a little more creative in that a little more creative in that a little more creative in that yeah and i've ridden quite a bit over yeah and i've ridden quite a bit over yeah and i've ridden quite a bit over the last several months on how to the last several months on how to the last several months on how to specifically take the principles specifically take the principles specifically take the principles and apply them to online groups so you and apply them to online groups so you and apply them to online groups so you can find those can find those can find those at our blog at lifeway.com groups at our blog at lifeway.com groups at our blog at lifeway.com groups if you want to just updated and then the if you want to just updated and then the if you want to just updated and then the podcast we also talk a lot about podcast we also talk a lot about podcast we also talk a lot about how do you successfully lead an online how do you successfully lead an online how do you successfully lead an online group great group great group great well chris i appreciate your time and well chris i appreciate your time and well chris i appreciate your time and your insight your wisdom your insight your wisdom your insight your wisdom um thank you for for just sharing with um thank you for for just sharing with um thank you for for just sharing with us today and and giving us us today and and giving us us today and and giving us some something to go on so i appreciate some something to go on so i appreciate some something to go on so i appreciate your time man your time man your time man absolutely enjoyed it thanks for absolutely enjoyed it thanks for absolutely enjoyed it thanks for inviting me all right take care inviting me all right take care inviting me all right take care well hey chris thank you so much for well hey chris thank you so much for well hey chris thank you so much for your time today your time today your time today hey we learned a few thing or two didn't hey we learned a few thing or two didn't hey we learned a few thing or two didn't we uh there's some we uh there's some we uh there's some great things that churches are doing in great things that churches are doing in great things that churches are doing in terms of how they're getting better at terms of how they're getting better at terms of how they're getting better at doing doing doing small groups and discipleship online small groups and discipleship online small groups and discipleship online so i would encourage you to check so i would encourage you to check so i would encourage you to check chris's uh podcast out go to lifeway chris's uh podcast out go to lifeway chris's uh podcast out go to lifeway christian resources and um tune into him christian resources and um tune into him christian resources and um tune into him and if if you know somebody that does and if if you know somebody that does and if if you know somebody that does oversee small groups that's maybe not

oversee small groups that's maybe not oversee small groups that's maybe not your area your area your area send them this podcast so that they can send them this podcast so that they can send them this podcast so that they can listen and get connected to chris as listen and get connected to chris as listen and get connected to chris as well well well we're in this together and we're trying we're in this together and we're trying we're in this together and we're trying to get better at it i i to get better at it i i to get better at it i i really appreciate leaders like chris really appreciate leaders like chris really appreciate leaders like chris that are that are that are learning from you learning from you learning from you and what's working what's not working and what's working what's not working and what's working what's not working and how to get better we're in this and how to get better we're in this and how to get better we're in this together we're on the same team together we're on the same team together we're on the same team we're trying to progress and and reach we're trying to progress and and reach we're trying to progress and and reach more people so more people so more people so hope you enjoyed this podcast and until hope you enjoyed this podcast and until hope you enjoyed this podcast and until next time god bless and take care