5 Things That Do Not Belong on Your Church Website | Jason and Bart

We desperately care about people who We desperately care about people who don't know Jesus, who don't go to don't know Jesus, who don't go to don't know Jesus, who don't go to church. That's why we have a website. church. That's why we have a website. church. That's why we have a website. And the and the the website's not the And the and the the website's not the And the and the the website's not the goal. We know this, right? The goal is goal. We know this, right? The goal is goal. We know this, right? The goal is get them into a seat so they can hear get them into a seat so they can hear get them into a seat so they can hear the gospel. Welcome to episode number the gospel. Welcome to episode number the gospel. Welcome to episode number 188 of the Missional Marketing Podcast. 188 of the Missional Marketing Podcast. 188 of the Missional Marketing Podcast. My name is Bart Blair. I'm joined by My name is Bart Blair. I'm joined by My name is Bart Blair. I'm joined by Jason, Jason Hamrock. Like my name on Jason, Jason Hamrock. Like my name on Jason, Jason Hamrock. Like my name on the screen says Bart Blair. Yours just the screen says Bart Blair. Yours just the screen says Bart Blair. Yours just says Jason. You're like Oprah. You're says Jason. You're like Oprah. You're says Jason. You're like Oprah. You're like Oprah. You just go by one name, like Oprah. You just go by one name, like Oprah. You just go by one name, right? right? right? >> Something like that. Uh I I don't know. >> Something like that. Uh I I don't know. >> Something like that. Uh I I don't know. >> I don't know about that, but it's good >> I don't know about that, but it's good >> I don't know about that, but it's good to see you, my friend. to see you, my friend. to see you, my friend. >> It's always good to to see you. Uh we >> It's always good to to see you. Uh we >> It's always good to to see you. Uh we haven't recorded a podcast in a while, haven't recorded a podcast in a while, haven't recorded a podcast in a while, so it's kind of like getting back into so it's kind of like getting back into so it's kind of like getting back into the saddle after being out of the the saddle after being out of the the saddle after being out of the saddle. Although, we've had some time saddle. Although, we've had some time saddle. Although, we've had some time together in person. At the time that together in person. At the time that together in person. At the time that we're recording this, we uh just we're recording this, we uh just we're recording this, we uh just recently completed the 2026 church recently completed the 2026 church recently completed the 2026 church communications conference in Kansas communications conference in Kansas communications conference in Kansas City, which was a blast. Had a great City, which was a blast. Had a great City, which was a blast. Had a great time. How about you? Oh, I had a time. How about you? Oh, I had a time. How about you? Oh, I had a wonderful time. We had phenomenal uh wonderful time. We had phenomenal uh wonderful time. We had phenomenal uh keynote speakers and just you know who keynote speakers and just you know who keynote speakers and just you know who what makes it the best is the attendees what makes it the best is the attendees what makes it the best is the attendees and from all the feedback I got it was and from all the feedback I got it was and from all the feedback I got it was they loved the table talk time to get to they loved the table talk time to get to they loved the table talk time to get to know other people that are serving in know other people that are serving in know other people that are serving in the same seat as they're serving who go the same seat as they're serving who go the same seat as they're serving who go through the same kind of pressures, through the same kind of pressures, through the same kind of pressures, mistakes and wins and it was just fun to mistakes and wins and it was just fun to mistakes and wins and it was just fun to see that you know that that community see that you know that that community see that you know that that community forming before our very eyes. So it was forming before our very eyes. So it was forming before our very eyes. So it was a lot of fun. Yeah, I think that uh when a lot of fun. Yeah, I think that uh when a lot of fun. Yeah, I think that uh when I read some of the feedback from some of I read some of the feedback from some of I read some of the feedback from some of the surveys, I think that people uh in the surveys, I think that people uh in the surveys, I think that people uh in in some cases actually enjoyed uh in some cases actually enjoyed uh in some cases actually enjoyed uh connecting with and having I'll use the connecting with and having I'll use the connecting with and having I'll use the I'll use the church word fellowshipping

I'll use the church word fellowshipping I'll use the church word fellowshipping with one another as much as they did the with one another as much as they did the with one another as much as they did the the the content um and the teaching and the the content um and the teaching and the the content um and the teaching and all the other stuff that we went all the other stuff that we went all the other stuff that we went through. But it was really good. I mean, through. But it was really good. I mean, through. But it was really good. I mean, we've been doing these conferences for a we've been doing these conferences for a we've been doing these conferences for a few years and um we were kind of doing few years and um we were kind of doing few years and um we were kind of doing it with a barebones staff this time, it with a barebones staff this time, it with a barebones staff this time, which created a little bit more work for which created a little bit more work for which created a little bit more work for you and Zach and me. But I think overall you and Zach and me. But I think overall you and Zach and me. But I think overall it was it was one of my favorite it was it was one of my favorite it was it was one of my favorite conferences that we did. So it was conferences that we did. So it was conferences that we did. So it was fantastic. Any of you who are uh fantastic. Any of you who are uh fantastic. Any of you who are uh listening or watching the podcast listening or watching the podcast listening or watching the podcast happened to be attendees. Uh thanks for happened to be attendees. Uh thanks for happened to be attendees. Uh thanks for coming. For those of you who missed it, coming. For those of you who missed it, coming. For those of you who missed it, um well maybe may maybe maybe if we do um well maybe may maybe maybe if we do um well maybe may maybe maybe if we do another one sometime you can come. I do another one sometime you can come. I do another one sometime you can come. I do want to give a quick shout out for want to give a quick shout out for want to give a quick shout out for anybody who's in the Dallas Fort Worth anybody who's in the Dallas Fort Worth anybody who's in the Dallas Fort Worth area. Uh we are hosting a church area. Uh we are hosting a church area. Uh we are hosting a church communications road show in November. I communications road show in November. I communications road show in November. I cannot remember the date off the top of cannot remember the date off the top of cannot remember the date off the top of my head but it's early. It's early in my head but it's early. It's early in my head but it's early. It's early in November and it's going to be at First November and it's going to be at First November and it's going to be at First Baptist Church in Forny, Texas. So, if Baptist Church in Forny, Texas. So, if Baptist Church in Forny, Texas. So, if you happen to be listening or watching you happen to be listening or watching you happen to be listening or watching and you're uh in the Dallas area, uh and you're uh in the Dallas area, uh and you're uh in the Dallas area, uh make sure that you click over to our make sure that you click over to our make sure that you click over to our website uh the churchcommunications.com website uh the churchcommunications.com website uh the churchcommunications.com website, check out the road shows and website, check out the road shows and website, check out the road shows and get registered for that. I'll make sure get registered for that. I'll make sure get registered for that. I'll make sure that there's a a link in the show notes that there's a a link in the show notes that there's a a link in the show notes for that. Jason and I will be uh there for that. Jason and I will be uh there for that. Jason and I will be uh there doing that road show and it's one deep doing that road show and it's one deep doing that road show and it's one deep dive day of all the things that you can dive day of all the things that you can dive day of all the things that you can imagine from a church communications imagine from a church communications imagine from a church communications standpoint, drinking from a fire hose.

standpoint, drinking from a fire hose. standpoint, drinking from a fire hose. Um, but we love doing those events as Um, but we love doing those events as Um, but we love doing those events as well. It's a great opportunity to hang well. It's a great opportunity to hang well. It's a great opportunity to hang out uh with uh some churches that we get out uh with uh some churches that we get out uh with uh some churches that we get to work with and new churches that we to work with and new churches that we to work with and new churches that we haven't yet had an opportunity to serve. haven't yet had an opportunity to serve. haven't yet had an opportunity to serve. >> Anything you want to add about the live >> Anything you want to add about the live >> Anything you want to add about the live events? events? events? >> No, I I they're fantastic. Same thing. >> No, I I they're fantastic. Same thing. >> No, I I they're fantastic. Same thing. We, you know, there things are changing We, you know, there things are changing We, you know, there things are changing so rapidly in the uh in the church so rapidly in the uh in the church so rapidly in the uh in the church communication space and so we try our communication space and so we try our communication space and so we try our best to stay up with the latest and best to stay up with the latest and best to stay up with the latest and greatest uh tools and strategies and greatest uh tools and strategies and greatest uh tools and strategies and bring those to you. And so certainly we bring those to you. And so certainly we bring those to you. And so certainly we we we teach on the fundamentals and the we we teach on the fundamentals and the we we teach on the fundamentals and the foundations but boy if you just sit idly foundations but boy if you just sit idly foundations but boy if you just sit idly and you don't advance uh your strategy and you don't advance uh your strategy and you don't advance uh your strategy especially digitally uh you might suffer especially digitally uh you might suffer especially digitally uh you might suffer a little bit. So come to the road show a little bit. So come to the road show a little bit. So come to the road show because we're going to unpack all kinds because we're going to unpack all kinds because we're going to unpack all kinds of new things even from our last one. of new things even from our last one. of new things even from our last one. It's been a a couple of months or so It's been a a couple of months or so It's been a a couple of months or so maybe three months. And so, um, yeah, we maybe three months. And so, um, yeah, we maybe three months. And so, um, yeah, we we've got new stuff and we're going to we've got new stuff and we're going to we've got new stuff and we're going to be carrying it over from the conference, be carrying it over from the conference, be carrying it over from the conference, but boy, it is so cool to get in front but boy, it is so cool to get in front but boy, it is so cool to get in front of a group for, you know, six or seven of a group for, you know, six or seven of a group for, you know, six or seven hours and just rub shoulders and talk hours and just rub shoulders and talk hours and just rub shoulders and talk strategy and you'll walk away with a lot strategy and you'll walk away with a lot strategy and you'll walk away with a lot of new information.

of new information. of new information. >> Yeah, absolutely. Uh, well, today, uh, >> Yeah, absolutely. Uh, well, today, uh, >> Yeah, absolutely. Uh, well, today, uh, we're that that's enough we're that that's enough we're that that's enough commercializing. I guess it was kind of commercializing. I guess it was kind of commercializing. I guess it was kind of a little bit of a commercial there, but a little bit of a commercial there, but a little bit of a commercial there, but um, we've got some good content for you um, we've got some good content for you um, we've got some good content for you here today. Um, and I I put this outline here today. Um, and I I put this outline here today. Um, and I I put this outline together that we're going to be talking together that we're going to be talking together that we're going to be talking through uh because I we we spend a lot through uh because I we we spend a lot through uh because I we we spend a lot of time looking at church websites and of time looking at church websites and of time looking at church websites and you know there there are some churches you know there there are some churches you know there there are some churches that are super intentional with their that are super intentional with their that are super intentional with their user experience. There are some churches user experience. There are some churches user experience. There are some churches that are super intentional with their uh that are super intentional with their uh that are super intentional with their uh SEO and their GEO, their generative SEO and their GEO, their generative SEO and their GEO, their generative engine optimization. There are some that engine optimization. There are some that engine optimization. There are some that don't have any idea what I'm talking don't have any idea what I'm talking don't have any idea what I'm talking about when it comes to SEO, GEO, or even about when it comes to SEO, GEO, or even about when it comes to SEO, GEO, or even user experience. And uh some of the user experience. And uh some of the user experience. And uh some of the things that we're going to be talking things that we're going to be talking things that we're going to be talking about today are primarily focused on the about today are primarily focused on the about today are primarily focused on the user experience. Although we are going user experience. Although we are going user experience. Although we are going to talk at the end about some things to talk at the end about some things to talk at the end about some things that are more related to the SEO and that are more related to the SEO and that are more related to the SEO and GEO. But I have titled this week's GEO. But I have titled this week's GEO. But I have titled this week's episode five things that do not belong episode five things that do not belong episode five things that do not belong on your church website. Now before we on your church website. Now before we on your church website. Now before we started recording, I gave a little started recording, I gave a little started recording, I gave a little caveat. I said it's not necessarily that caveat. I said it's not necessarily that caveat. I said it's not necessarily that these things don't belong somewhere on these things don't belong somewhere on these things don't belong somewhere on the website, but most of these things the website, but most of these things the website, but most of these things probably do not belong front and center.

probably do not belong front and center. probably do not belong front and center. Um, you always talk Jason. Yeah, you you Um, you always talk Jason. Yeah, you you Um, you always talk Jason. Yeah, you you I was gonna say you always talk about I was gonna say you always talk about I was gonna say you always talk about you always talk about our our website you always talk about our our website you always talk about our our website being designed for the one, not for the being designed for the one, not for the being designed for the one, not for the 99. Why don't you expand on that a 99. Why don't you expand on that a 99. Why don't you expand on that a little bit? little bit? little bit? >> Well, exactly. So, I I I think of the >> Well, exactly. So, I I I think of the >> Well, exactly. So, I I I think of the homepage and the top level navbars, you homepage and the top level navbars, you homepage and the top level navbars, you got like four or five different things got like four or five different things got like four or five different things at the top level navbar right there. at the top level navbar right there. at the top level navbar right there. This kind of stuff should stay away from This kind of stuff should stay away from This kind of stuff should stay away from that because that that homepage and that because that that homepage and that because that that homepage and those top level nav bars, that's where those top level nav bars, that's where those top level nav bars, that's where people typically who are unchurched or people typically who are unchurched or people typically who are unchurched or durched, I call them the one, right? the durched, I call them the one, right? the durched, I call them the one, right? the one, not the 99, one, not the 99, one, not the 99, but the one that's those are the people but the one that's those are the people but the one that's those are the people that are crawling around and clicking that are crawling around and clicking that are crawling around and clicking and engaging with the content that you and engaging with the content that you and engaging with the content that you put out there. So, when you start put out there. So, when you start put out there. So, when you start getting really internally focused on getting really internally focused on getting really internally focused on those top level pages and that homepage, those top level pages and that homepage, those top level pages and that homepage, that's that's kind of a big mistake, not that's that's kind of a big mistake, not that's that's kind of a big mistake, not only from a user standpoint, but only from a user standpoint, but only from a user standpoint, but certainly also from an AI standpoint. certainly also from an AI standpoint. certainly also from an AI standpoint. We'll talk about that. We'll talk about that. We'll talk about that. >> Yeah, I I I sort of liken a a church >> Yeah, I I I sort of liken a a church >> Yeah, I I I sort of liken a a church website sometimes can end up like I website sometimes can end up like I website sometimes can end up like I don't know if you have one of these in don't know if you have one of these in don't know if you have one of these in your house. I think most people do. your house. I think most people do. your house. I think most people do. There's a drawer in the kitchen that There's a drawer in the kitchen that There's a drawer in the kitchen that just kind of becomes the catchall for just kind of becomes the catchall for just kind of becomes the catchall for all kinds of things. Yeah. My I I refer all kinds of things. Yeah. My I I refer all kinds of things. Yeah. My I I refer to it as I I refer to it in our house as to it as I I refer to it in our house as to it as I I refer to it in our house as the sin drawer. It's where all the stuff the sin drawer. It's where all the stuff the sin drawer. It's where all the stuff that we can't really find a home for is that we can't really find a home for is that we can't really find a home for is kind of ends up in this one particular kind of ends up in this one particular kind of ends up in this one particular drawer. And it can be really difficult drawer. And it can be really difficult drawer. And it can be really difficult to find what you're looking for in that to find what you're looking for in that to find what you're looking for in that drawer because it can get a little bit drawer because it can get a little bit drawer because it can get a little bit it can get a little bit clunky, a little it can get a little bit clunky, a little it can get a little bit clunky, a little bit full, a little bit over full at bit full, a little bit over full at bit full, a little bit over full at times. And so sometimes when we're not times. And so sometimes when we're not times. And so sometimes when we're not careful with our website, it can end up careful with our website, it can end up careful with our website, it can end up being a bit of a junk drawer. Now, we we

being a bit of a junk drawer. Now, we we being a bit of a junk drawer. Now, we we I think you I you may have even I'm not I think you I you may have even I'm not I think you I you may have even I'm not sure if it was you that said this. sure if it was you that said this. sure if it was you that said this. Somebody talked one time about using Somebody talked one time about using Somebody talked one time about using sort of the footer of your website as sort of the footer of your website as sort of the footer of your website as sort of the junk drawer. All the stuff sort of the junk drawer. All the stuff sort of the junk drawer. All the stuff that you don't necessarily need in your that you don't necessarily need in your that you don't necessarily need in your navbar um or on the on the top of the navbar um or on the on the top of the navbar um or on the on the top of the website, you can use the footer for all website, you can use the footer for all website, you can use the footer for all of that extra stuff. of that extra stuff. of that extra stuff. >> Yeah. I don't know why churches don't >> Yeah. I don't know why churches don't >> Yeah. I don't know why churches don't use a footer more often, you guys. it use a footer more often, you guys. it use a footer more often, you guys. it your people will scroll and they'll get your people will scroll and they'll get your people will scroll and they'll get down to the footer to find what they're down to the footer to find what they're down to the footer to find what they're looking for. Um, we don't use that looking for. Um, we don't use that looking for. Um, we don't use that enough and so if it's important, you enough and so if it's important, you enough and so if it's important, you know, because sometimes leadership says know, because sometimes leadership says know, because sometimes leadership says it has to be on the homepage. Well, it has to be on the homepage. Well, it has to be on the homepage. Well, don't put on the homepage. Put on the don't put on the homepage. Put on the don't put on the homepage. Put on the footer. footer. footer. >> Put it down there in the junk drawer. >> Put it down there in the junk drawer. >> Put it down there in the junk drawer. Put it in there. Solves the problem. Put it in there. Solves the problem. Put it in there. Solves the problem. >> Yeah. So, let's let's talk through some >> Yeah. So, let's let's talk through some >> Yeah. So, let's let's talk through some things that could that sometimes end up things that could that sometimes end up things that could that sometimes end up being uh homepage content that are are being uh homepage content that are are being uh homepage content that are are junk drawer. And the first thing that I junk drawer. And the first thing that I junk drawer. And the first thing that I put on the list is it's the full church put on the list is it's the full church put on the list is it's the full church calendar. calendar. calendar. >> Now, I'm not talking about just like the >> Now, I'm not talking about just like the >> Now, I'm not talking about just like the events or the Sunday services, but I'm events or the Sunday services, but I'm events or the Sunday services, but I'm talking about all the other stuff that talking about all the other stuff that talking about all the other stuff that happens in body life of the church. What happens in body life of the church. What happens in body life of the church. What are some things that you can think of are some things that you can think of are some things that you can think of that fit in that calendar that probably that fit in that calendar that probably that fit in that calendar that probably don't need to be on the homepage?

don't need to be on the homepage? don't need to be on the homepage? >> Yeah. If you're letting the 99 dictate >> Yeah. If you're letting the 99 dictate >> Yeah. If you're letting the 99 dictate what they want to see on the website, what they want to see on the website, what they want to see on the website, you're you're going the wrong way. And you're you're going the wrong way. And you're you're going the wrong way. And so, um, instead, so, um, instead, so, um, instead, especially on the homepage, you should especially on the homepage, you should especially on the homepage, you should only be putting those events that would only be putting those events that would only be putting those events that would be attractional to the unchurched, be attractional to the unchurched, be attractional to the unchurched, dechurched person. dechurched person. dechurched person. Specifically, like kids events. Think Specifically, like kids events. Think Specifically, like kids events. Think about that, right? That Yeah, we want about that, right? That Yeah, we want about that, right? That Yeah, we want you to come. That's an easy entry point. you to come. That's an easy entry point. you to come. That's an easy entry point. Come to our Well, it's it's October, so Come to our Well, it's it's October, so Come to our Well, it's it's October, so Fall Fest is a really popular thing that Fall Fest is a really popular thing that Fall Fest is a really popular thing that should be on the homepage, right? um uh should be on the homepage, right? um uh should be on the homepage, right? um uh things that maybe it's a maybe it's a things that maybe it's a maybe it's a things that maybe it's a maybe it's a ministry like Alpha, you know, our our ministry like Alpha, you know, our our ministry like Alpha, you know, our our church does Alpha. Alpha is great. If church does Alpha. Alpha is great. If church does Alpha. Alpha is great. If you don't know Alpha, it's alpha for you don't know Alpha, it's alpha for you don't know Alpha, it's alpha for it's a it's a it's a kind of a cool it's a it's a it's a kind of a cool it's a it's a it's a kind of a cool class for the uh atheist or agnostic class for the uh atheist or agnostic class for the uh atheist or agnostic people as an evangelistic study. Yeah, people as an evangelistic study. Yeah, people as an evangelistic study. Yeah, >> it's a great it's a great Yes, that's >> it's a great it's a great Yes, that's >> it's a great it's a great Yes, that's for the one, not the 99. But when you for the one, not the 99. But when you for the one, not the 99. But when you have uh the deacon meeting or you have have uh the deacon meeting or you have have uh the deacon meeting or you have all these internal like sometimes I'll all these internal like sometimes I'll all these internal like sometimes I'll see reoccurring meetings and holy cow. see reoccurring meetings and holy cow. see reoccurring meetings and holy cow. So you have 12 weeks of women Bible So you have 12 weeks of women Bible So you have 12 weeks of women Bible study. So all I see is women's every study. So all I see is women's every study. So all I see is women's every single week. I love the Bible study. I single week. I love the Bible study. I single week. I love the Bible study. I just don't think it belongs on the just don't think it belongs on the just don't think it belongs on the homepage because that's not somebody's homepage because that's not somebody's homepage because that's not somebody's first entry point into your church.

first entry point into your church. first entry point into your church. >> Yeah. What we'll often see is just a >> Yeah. What we'll often see is just a >> Yeah. What we'll often see is just a calendar link from the homepage and it calendar link from the homepage and it calendar link from the homepage and it goes to a page that's like an embedded goes to a page that's like an embedded goes to a page that's like an embedded calendar. So you might embed your Google calendar. So you might embed your Google calendar. So you might embed your Google calendar or your facility calendar. And calendar or your facility calendar. And calendar or your facility calendar. And that to me is where it it gets a little that to me is where it it gets a little that to me is where it it gets a little bit cumbersome because your facility may bit cumbersome because your facility may bit cumbersome because your facility may have all kinds of events and activities have all kinds of events and activities have all kinds of events and activities going going on. They don't necessarily going going on. They don't necessarily going going on. They don't necessarily have explanations to them. You know, have explanations to them. You know, have explanations to them. You know, you've got the worship team rehearsal or you've got the worship team rehearsal or you've got the worship team rehearsal or the choir rehearsal and the facilities the choir rehearsal and the facilities the choir rehearsal and the facilities committee meeting and the and the you committee meeting and the and the you committee meeting and the and the you know the deacons meeting and the women's know the deacons meeting and the women's know the deacons meeting and the women's ministry and you have all kinds of ministry and you have all kinds of ministry and you have all kinds of events and all of a sudden I look at the events and all of a sudden I look at the events and all of a sudden I look at the calendar and if I'm an outsider coming calendar and if I'm an outsider coming calendar and if I'm an outsider coming in I'm like this is overwhelming. I in I'm like this is overwhelming. I in I'm like this is overwhelming. I don't even know what half of this stuff don't even know what half of this stuff don't even know what half of this stuff is and what it means. So I would say is and what it means. So I would say is and what it means. So I would say like you just said Jason um we really if like you just said Jason um we really if like you just said Jason um we really if we're going to have a calendar on the we're going to have a calendar on the we're going to have a calendar on the website let's make the calendar be a website let's make the calendar be a website let's make the calendar be a guest centric sort of outward-f facing guest centric sort of outward-f facing guest centric sort of outward-f facing uh calendar so that people who are uh calendar so that people who are uh calendar so that people who are outsiders can learn a little bit more outsiders can learn a little bit more outsiders can learn a little bit more about who we are rather than the fact about who we are rather than the fact about who we are rather than the fact that we're just simply super busy. Now that we're just simply super busy. Now that we're just simply super busy. Now the question that people are going to the question that people are going to the question that people are going to ask is yeah but everybody in our church ask is yeah but everybody in our church ask is yeah but everybody in our church needs access to this calendar. How do we needs access to this calendar. How do we needs access to this calendar. How do we give them access? Well, again, it can give them access? Well, again, it can give them access? Well, again, it can live on your website. It just doesn't live on your website. It just doesn't live on your website. It just doesn't need to be one of the primary nav need to be one of the primary nav need to be one of the primary nav options from your homepage. That's options from your homepage. That's options from your homepage. That's that's that's kind of what I'm getting that's that's kind of what I'm getting that's that's kind of what I'm getting at. That makes sense.

at. That makes sense. at. That makes sense. >> Yeah, it depends on the size of your >> Yeah, it depends on the size of your >> Yeah, it depends on the size of your church because I mean, if you have a church because I mean, if you have a church because I mean, if you have a church app, go with the app. If you've church app, go with the app. If you've church app, go with the app. If you've got a church management system, link it got a church management system, link it got a church management system, link it over there. You can have a link or a over there. You can have a link or a over there. You can have a link or a Google Google Sheet or something like Google Google Sheet or something like Google Google Sheet or something like that, you can link off of it. But, as that, you can link off of it. But, as that, you can link off of it. But, as your your point is, don't overwhelm the your your point is, don't overwhelm the your your point is, don't overwhelm the user. You should have uh you know, maybe user. You should have uh you know, maybe user. You should have uh you know, maybe multiple goals, but certainly the top multiple goals, but certainly the top multiple goals, but certainly the top level goal of your website is to attract level goal of your website is to attract level goal of your website is to attract somebody. So they plan their they somebody. So they plan their they somebody. So they plan their they actually sit in a seat. They come to actually sit in a seat. They come to actually sit in a seat. They come to your church, your church, your church, >> right? >> right? >> right? >> And that's the overarching goal of of a >> And that's the overarching goal of of a >> And that's the overarching goal of of a website. It's to reach the one to help website. It's to reach the one to help website. It's to reach the one to help them find their way into a seat. them find their way into a seat. them find their way into a seat. >> Yeah. And so >> Yeah. And so >> Yeah. And so >> Exactly. Yeah. It's use that website to >> Exactly. Yeah. It's use that website to >> Exactly. Yeah. It's use that website to take them on a journey from their first take them on a journey from their first take them on a journey from their first thought to their first visit. Right. thought to their first visit. Right. thought to their first visit. Right. That's that's the goal. Um, second thing That's that's the goal. Um, second thing That's that's the goal. Um, second thing I have on our list here, Jason, uh, I have on our list here, Jason, uh, I have on our list here, Jason, uh, aside from an all church calendar is the aside from an all church calendar is the aside from an all church calendar is the the weekly announcement or weekly the weekly announcement or weekly the weekly announcement or weekly bulletin or announcements in a PDF of bulletin or announcements in a PDF of bulletin or announcements in a PDF of some sort. Um, you know, a lot of some sort. Um, you know, a lot of some sort. Um, you know, a lot of churches have moved away from bulletins. churches have moved away from bulletins. churches have moved away from bulletins. There are still some churches that do There are still some churches that do There are still some churches that do have bulletins. Um, but again, not have bulletins. Um, but again, not have bulletins. Um, but again, not necessarily something that I would be necessarily something that I would be necessarily something that I would be housing on the homepage of the website.

housing on the homepage of the website. housing on the homepage of the website. Um, yeah. You have thoughts on that? Um, yeah. You have thoughts on that? Um, yeah. You have thoughts on that? >> No. Yeah. Exactly. Because, uh, nobody >> No. Yeah. Exactly. Because, uh, nobody >> No. Yeah. Exactly. Because, uh, nobody cares about that outside your church. cares about that outside your church. cares about that outside your church. No, none. So, it's it's now it's noise. No, none. So, it's it's now it's noise. No, none. So, it's it's now it's noise. It's distraction. It's taking the focus It's distraction. It's taking the focus It's distraction. It's taking the focus off what you want them to do. And so, off what you want them to do. And so, off what you want them to do. And so, the 99 matter, of course, they do. I'm the 99 matter, of course, they do. I'm the 99 matter, of course, they do. I'm not saying they don't matter, but not saying they don't matter, but not saying they don't matter, but there's ways that you can get that there's ways that you can get that there's ways that you can get that information to them through, you know, information to them through, you know, information to them through, you know, weekly emails or download on the app or weekly emails or download on the app or weekly emails or download on the app or maybe even like a in the footer, you maybe even like a in the footer, you maybe even like a in the footer, you know, click and it takes you to a hidden know, click and it takes you to a hidden know, click and it takes you to a hidden page. Go for it. Uh but boy I often will page. Go for it. Uh but boy I often will page. Go for it. Uh but boy I often will see right prime real estate like in the see right prime real estate like in the see right prime real estate like in the on the different on the website prime on the different on the website prime on the different on the website prime real estate using attention to get the real estate using attention to get the real estate using attention to get the bulletin wrong audience and I know bulletin wrong audience and I know bulletin wrong audience and I know you're going to have some people going you're going to have some people going you're going to have some people going but Jason you don't understand the 99 but Jason you don't understand the 99 but Jason you don't understand the 99 that goes to our church they make noise that goes to our church they make noise that goes to our church they make noise I understand that I understand that but I understand that I understand that but I understand that I understand that but who is this for and so we want to love who is this for and so we want to love who is this for and so we want to love on them we want to help guide them on on them we want to help guide them on on them we want to help guide them on how they can get access to this but we how they can get access to this but we how they can get access to this but we really need to be mindful and and not really need to be mindful and and not really need to be mindful and and not let uh not let them run how we set up let uh not let them run how we set up let uh not let them run how we set up our website. That's just my thoughts.

our website. That's just my thoughts. our website. That's just my thoughts. >> I've often said uh to church >> I've often said uh to church >> I've often said uh to church communications folks that I I recognize communications folks that I I recognize communications folks that I I recognize that sometimes the pain point that that sometimes the pain point that that sometimes the pain point that you're trying to overcome is the you're trying to overcome is the you're trying to overcome is the complaint that you have on Monday or complaint that you have on Monday or complaint that you have on Monday or Tuesday or Wednesday from someone in the Tuesday or Wednesday from someone in the Tuesday or Wednesday from someone in the church who's emailing you or texting you church who's emailing you or texting you church who's emailing you or texting you or calling you about something that they or calling you about something that they or calling you about something that they didn't feel like you communicated didn't feel like you communicated didn't feel like you communicated correctly or accurately or effectively. correctly or accurately or effectively. correctly or accurately or effectively. But here's the deal. But here's the deal. But here's the deal. >> Under an umbrella of grace, we should be >> Under an umbrella of grace, we should be >> Under an umbrella of grace, we should be able to work through those things. What able to work through those things. What able to work through those things. What you're never going to hear from is the you're never going to hear from is the you're never going to hear from is the person who went to your website, was person who went to your website, was person who went to your website, was confused by what they found on the confused by what they found on the confused by what they found on the website, and decided to try a different website, and decided to try a different website, and decided to try a different church or no church at all rather than church or no church at all rather than church or no church at all rather than trying your church. You never hear from trying your church. You never hear from trying your church. You never hear from that person. So I we want to create a that person. So I we want to create a that person. So I we want to create a user journey for that person so that we user journey for that person so that we user journey for that person so that we hear from them so that we get them to hear from them so that we get them to hear from them so that we get them to plan a visit to fill out a form to let plan a visit to fill out a form to let plan a visit to fill out a form to let us know that they're planning to attend us know that they're planning to attend us know that they're planning to attend the service to pre-register their kids the service to pre-register their kids the service to pre-register their kids to get into some sort of nurturing to get into some sort of nurturing to get into some sort of nurturing relationship that we can move them along relationship that we can move them along relationship that we can move them along that journey uh to get them uh to have that journey uh to get them uh to have that journey uh to get them uh to have their first visit. So I think you know their first visit. So I think you know their first visit. So I think you know different churches do different things.

different churches do different things. different churches do different things. If you've got a bulletin or if you got a If you've got a bulletin or if you got a If you've got a bulletin or if you got a kind of an announcements PDF or kind of an announcements PDF or kind of an announcements PDF or something, I've seen churches that, you something, I've seen churches that, you something, I've seen churches that, you know, where they where they post their know, where they where they post their know, where they where they post their sermons, you know, you've got, you know, sermons, you know, you've got, you know, sermons, you know, you've got, you know, your your sermon from Sunday, October your your sermon from Sunday, October your your sermon from Sunday, October 4th, and you might have a link next to 4th, and you might have a link next to 4th, and you might have a link next to that that says this week's bulletin or that that says this week's bulletin or that that says this week's bulletin or something like that or download the something like that or download the something like that or download the sermon notes or what that whatever sermon notes or what that whatever sermon notes or what that whatever whatever you might do. I I'm not I I whatever you might do. I I'm not I I whatever you might do. I I'm not I I don't have an app at my church. A lot of don't have an app at my church. A lot of don't have an app at my church. A lot of churches do use apps. Uh if you're a churches do use apps. Uh if you're a churches do use apps. Uh if you're a church that uses an app, I would say church that uses an app, I would say church that uses an app, I would say that's probably the primary place that that's probably the primary place that that's probably the primary place that you want those things to live. you want those things to live. you want those things to live. >> Absolutely. Yeah. Um, the next one I put >> Absolutely. Yeah. Um, the next one I put >> Absolutely. Yeah. Um, the next one I put on the list, I I actually I this this is on the list, I I actually I this this is on the list, I I actually I this this is what I saw on a church website that what I saw on a church website that what I saw on a church website that actually made me want to do this actually made me want to do this actually made me want to do this episode. I was on the website with the episode. I was on the website with the episode. I was on the website with the church and in their main nav, they had a church and in their main nav, they had a church and in their main nav, they had a link to their church governance link to their church governance link to their church governance documents. Uh, this is how our leg our documents. Uh, this is how our leg our documents. Uh, this is how our leg our church is legally structured. There's church is legally structured. There's church is legally structured. There's here you can download our bylaws and here you can download our bylaws and here you can download our bylaws and our, you know, every lawyer just said, our, you know, every lawyer just said, our, you know, every lawyer just said, "Amen." "Amen." "Amen." >> And and it was like and it was like, "Oh >> And and it was like and it was like, "Oh >> And and it was like and it was like, "Oh my goodness." Like I in in what universe my goodness." Like I in in what universe my goodness." Like I in in what universe would somebody visiting your church would somebody visiting your church would somebody visiting your church website need this? Oh, by the way, in website need this? Oh, by the way, in website need this? Oh, by the way, in what universe do the people in your what universe do the people in your what universe do the people in your church actually need easy access to that church actually need easy access to that church actually need easy access to that information?

information? information? >> I bet the analytics say you don't get >> I bet the analytics say you don't get >> I bet the analytics say you don't get any clicks. any clicks. any clicks. >> Yeah, it's probably not high. It's it's >> Yeah, it's probably not high. It's it's >> Yeah, it's probably not high. It's it's just it's not high value content on the just it's not high value content on the just it's not high value content on the website. Now, I it's it's very rare that website. Now, I it's it's very rare that website. Now, I it's it's very rare that I have seen this on a church's website, I have seen this on a church's website, I have seen this on a church's website, but every once in a while I do see it on but every once in a while I do see it on but every once in a while I do see it on a church website. So, you know, a church website. So, you know, a church website. So, you know, >> yeah, I've got some ideas, though. You >> yeah, I've got some ideas, though. You >> yeah, I've got some ideas, though. You know, when I think of governance know, when I think of governance know, when I think of governance documents, absolutely like insider documents, absolutely like insider documents, absolutely like insider stuff, you know, maybe maybe behind some stuff, you know, maybe maybe behind some stuff, you know, maybe maybe behind some password protected thing or something, password protected thing or something, password protected thing or something, some link in the footer, go to the junk some link in the footer, go to the junk some link in the footer, go to the junk drawer, click on, you know, call it drawer, click on, you know, call it drawer, click on, you know, call it something else, they can get to it. But something else, they can get to it. But something else, they can get to it. But it does beg the question of I I will it does beg the question of I I will it does beg the question of I I will often go to church websites and I'll see often go to church websites and I'll see often go to church websites and I'll see what we believe what we believe what we believe >> and they've got enough content on there >> and they've got enough content on there >> and they've got enough content on there to put together a 20page PDF document. to put together a 20page PDF document. to put together a 20page PDF document. And it's like, guys, And it's like, guys, And it's like, guys, this website is for the one uh who's this website is for the one uh who's this website is for the one uh who's unchurched or dechurched, okay? You need unchurched or dechurched, okay? You need unchurched or dechurched, okay? You need to explain what you're about, who you to explain what you're about, who you to explain what you're about, who you follow, what you know, we read, we teach follow, what you know, we read, we teach follow, what you know, we read, we teach the Bible, we follow Jesus, and you want the Bible, we follow Jesus, and you want the Bible, we follow Jesus, and you want to explain some of that. But if you go to explain some of that. But if you go to explain some of that. But if you go so deep into Bart, you you would know so deep into Bart, you you would know so deep into Bart, you you would know this language. You go so deep into your this language. You go so deep into your this language. You go so deep into your into your doctrine that they it's just into your doctrine that they it's just into your doctrine that they it's just like right it'd be right over their like right it'd be right over their like right it'd be right over their heads. Now you're missing it. Now you're heads. Now you're missing it. Now you're heads. Now you're missing it. Now you're going a little bit too far in my going a little bit too far in my going a little bit too far in my opinion. Now if somebody's got opinion. Now if somebody's got opinion. Now if somebody's got questions, absolutely have a little link questions, absolutely have a little link questions, absolutely have a little link in there. Want to talk to our pastor in there. Want to talk to our pastor in there. Want to talk to our pastor about anything else that you want to about anything else that you want to about anything else that you want to know about? We'd love to have a know about? We'd love to have a know about? We'd love to have a conversation with you. That's not the conversation with you. That's not the conversation with you. That's not the target because people looking at that's target because people looking at that's target because people looking at that's probably believers who have moved to the

probably believers who have moved to the probably believers who have moved to the area, right? They maybe have some deeper area, right? They maybe have some deeper area, right? They maybe have some deeper questions about what it is you believe questions about what it is you believe questions about what it is you believe and what you teach. But keep it high and what you teach. But keep it high and what you teach. But keep it high level, biblical. Keep it high level, but level, biblical. Keep it high level, but level, biblical. Keep it high level, but keep it in words and language that keep it in words and language that keep it in words and language that somebody who doesn't go to church will somebody who doesn't go to church will somebody who doesn't go to church will understand what sets you apart, why you understand what sets you apart, why you understand what sets you apart, why you believe what you believe. believe what you believe. believe what you believe. >> Yeah. I've got I've got a couple of >> Yeah. I've got I've got a couple of >> Yeah. I've got I've got a couple of ideas here, and the these are actually ideas here, and the these are actually ideas here, and the these are actually things that I have I have done. Um I things that I have I have done. Um I things that I have I have done. Um I want to have my my my doctrine, my want to have my my my doctrine, my want to have my my my doctrine, my primary beliefs on an easy to find page. primary beliefs on an easy to find page. primary beliefs on an easy to find page. Yeah, I do want to I want them to be um Yeah, I do want to I want them to be um Yeah, I do want to I want them to be um short synthesized statements that cover, short synthesized statements that cover, short synthesized statements that cover, you know, my 8 10 12 14 primary pieces you know, my 8 10 12 14 primary pieces you know, my 8 10 12 14 primary pieces of doctrine, but I also want to have a of doctrine, but I also want to have a of doctrine, but I also want to have a downloadable version of the complete downloadable version of the complete downloadable version of the complete doctrinal statement. doctrinal statement. doctrinal statement. >> That's a great idea >> That's a great idea >> That's a great idea >> for the person who might be coming from >> for the person who might be coming from >> for the person who might be coming from another church who's unfamiliar with our another church who's unfamiliar with our another church who's unfamiliar with our denomination or our fellowship and wants denomination or our fellowship and wants denomination or our fellowship and wants to know a little bit more. They they to know a little bit more. They they to know a little bit more. They they maybe they need to know about our maybe they need to know about our maybe they need to know about our esquetology or they need to know a esquetology or they need to know a esquetology or they need to know a little bit more about our siology and little bit more about our siology and little bit more about our siology and that's okay. It's not website content, that's okay. It's not website content, that's okay. It's not website content, but it's accessible through that beliefs but it's accessible through that beliefs but it's accessible through that beliefs page. But here's the other thing that I page. But here's the other thing that I page. But here's the other thing that I would double down on. Um, almost every would double down on. Um, almost every would double down on. Um, almost every key point in your doctrinal statement, key point in your doctrinal statement, key point in your doctrinal statement, like such as, you know, what your church like such as, you know, what your church like such as, you know, what your church believes about salvation or what your believes about salvation or what your believes about salvation or what your church believes about Jesus or what your church believes about Jesus or what your church believes about Jesus or what your church believes about the Holy Spirit or church believes about the Holy Spirit or church believes about the Holy Spirit or sign gifts or what any of those things, sign gifts or what any of those things, sign gifts or what any of those things, >> whatever. Every one of those honestly >> whatever. Every one of those honestly >> whatever. Every one of those honestly deserves its own unique page. And this deserves its own unique page. And this deserves its own unique page. And this is where I go with that. I would say, is where I go with that. I would say, is where I go with that. I would say, "What does Grace Community Church

"What does Grace Community Church "What does Grace Community Church believe about Jesus?" That's the page. believe about Jesus?" That's the page. believe about Jesus?" That's the page. Now, it doesn't have to be a main nav Now, it doesn't have to be a main nav Now, it doesn't have to be a main nav page, but you can link to it from your page, but you can link to it from your page, but you can link to it from your doctrine page, and you can write a whole doctrine page, and you can write a whole doctrine page, and you can write a whole article answering the question, "What article answering the question, "What article answering the question, "What does Grace Community Church in does Grace Community Church in does Grace Community Church in Springfield, Illinois believe about Springfield, Illinois believe about Springfield, Illinois believe about Jesus?" "What does Grace Community Jesus?" "What does Grace Community Jesus?" "What does Grace Community Church in Springfield, Illinois believe Church in Springfield, Illinois believe Church in Springfield, Illinois believe about baptism?" And then you can write about baptism?" And then you can write about baptism?" And then you can write these pages because this actually helps these pages because this actually helps these pages because this actually helps with your SEO and your GEO, right? And with your SEO and your GEO, right? And with your SEO and your GEO, right? And on those pages, you put a little FAQ. on those pages, you put a little FAQ. on those pages, you put a little FAQ. What are some of the common things that What are some of the common things that What are some of the common things that people might misunderstand about the people might misunderstand about the people might misunderstand about the Holy Spirit? What are things that, you Holy Spirit? What are things that, you Holy Spirit? What are things that, you know, that I need to know about know, that I need to know about know, that I need to know about salvation if I'm going to attend Grace salvation if I'm going to attend Grace salvation if I'm going to attend Grace Community Church in Springfield, Community Church in Springfield, Community Church in Springfield, Illinois? You can put some FAQs on those Illinois? You can put some FAQs on those Illinois? You can put some FAQs on those pages and actually do yourself a huge pages and actually do yourself a huge pages and actually do yourself a huge favor by having great content that large favor by having great content that large favor by having great content that large language models and search engines can language models and search engines can language models and search engines can find. But this but these are three pages find. But this but these are three pages find. But this but these are three pages deep. This is not straight off the deep. This is not straight off the deep. This is not straight off the homepage. This is from my homepage. What homepage. This is from my homepage. What homepage. This is from my homepage. What do we believe? Hey, here's some basic do we believe? Hey, here's some basic do we believe? Hey, here's some basic here's some basic information. But if here's some basic information. But if here's some basic information. But if you want to learn more, click on this. you want to learn more, click on this. you want to learn more, click on this. Boom. Takes me to another page that Boom. Takes me to another page that Boom. Takes me to another page that says, "What does Grace Community Church says, "What does Grace Community Church says, "What does Grace Community Church believe about Jesus?" Now, we have a believe about Jesus?" Now, we have a believe about Jesus?" Now, we have a whole page on what we believe about whole page on what we believe about whole page on what we believe about Jesus, why it's important, scripture Jesus, why it's important, scripture Jesus, why it's important, scripture references, and the whole nine yards.

references, and the whole nine yards. references, and the whole nine yards. What do you think of that idea? What do you think of that idea? What do you think of that idea? >> Yeah, you're hitting on ex what we >> Yeah, you're hitting on ex what we >> Yeah, you're hitting on ex what we teach. What we teach, guys. It's teach. What we teach, guys. It's teach. What we teach, guys. It's content. Content is king. lowercase key content. Content is king. lowercase key content. Content is king. lowercase key K. Yeah, content is king, not the king. K. Yeah, content is king, not the king. K. Yeah, content is king, not the king. And so lack of content and you can't And so lack of content and you can't And so lack of content and you can't have like have like have like >> 12 different things on one page. You're >> 12 different things on one page. You're >> 12 different things on one page. You're not helping the when we say AI, we're not helping the when we say AI, we're not helping the when we say AI, we're not talking about you using AI. We're not talking about you using AI. We're not talking about you using AI. We're talking about people out there using AI talking about people out there using AI talking about people out there using AI like Claude, Chad, GPT, Gemini, and you like Claude, Chad, GPT, Gemini, and you like Claude, Chad, GPT, Gemini, and you know, Google AI overview, right? know, Google AI overview, right? know, Google AI overview, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That's they're they're using those to >> That's they're they're using those to >> That's they're they're using those to find answers to questions they're find answers to questions they're find answers to questions they're asking. And even if they go to Google asking. And even if they go to Google asking. And even if they go to Google anymore, it's more of a conversation. anymore, it's more of a conversation. anymore, it's more of a conversation. And and when you have that kind of you And and when you have that kind of you And and when you have that kind of you have that kind of content on your have that kind of content on your have that kind of content on your website that's strategically put on website that's strategically put on website that's strategically put on there, now you have a half a chance of there, now you have a half a chance of there, now you have a half a chance of showing up when somebody in Springfield, showing up when somebody in Springfield, showing up when somebody in Springfield, Illinois, I think you said, types in, Illinois, I think you said, types in, Illinois, I think you said, types in, "How do I follow Jesus?" "How do I follow Jesus?" "How do I follow Jesus?" And you've got content about how to And you've got content about how to And you've got content about how to follow Jesus. But in in a full page, you follow Jesus. But in in a full page, you follow Jesus. But in in a full page, you are way more likely to be sourced and are way more likely to be sourced and are way more likely to be sourced and cited versus you have a thing. what does cited versus you have a thing. what does cited versus you have a thing. what does Grace Community believe? And then Grace Community believe? And then Grace Community believe? And then there's just one little sentence there.

there's just one little sentence there. there's just one little sentence there. We believe in that Jesus is God. Like We believe in that Jesus is God. Like We believe in that Jesus is God. Like that's not enough content because it's that's not enough content because it's that's not enough content because it's it's it's kind of mingled with all the it's it's kind of mingled with all the it's it's kind of mingled with all the other content. So yeah, great other content. So yeah, great other content. So yeah, great >> when you're writing and when you're >> when you're writing and when you're >> when you're writing and when you're writing for the large language models, writing for the large language models, writing for the large language models, you want to think um lots of questions you want to think um lots of questions you want to think um lots of questions and very concise, direct answers because and very concise, direct answers because and very concise, direct answers because that's what they're looking for. It's, that's what they're looking for. It's, that's what they're looking for. It's, you know, in the old days, in the old you know, in the old days, in the old you know, in the old days, in the old days, like a year ago, you'd go to days, like a year ago, you'd go to days, like a year ago, you'd go to Google and Google would just send you to Google and Google would just send you to Google and Google would just send you to a web page and make you go figure it out a web page and make you go figure it out a web page and make you go figure it out on your own. Now, if I search what does, on your own. Now, if I search what does, on your own. Now, if I search what does, you know, Grace Community Church in you know, Grace Community Church in you know, Grace Community Church in Springfield think of believe about Jesus Springfield think of believe about Jesus Springfield think of believe about Jesus or think of believe about the Bible, or think of believe about the Bible, or think of believe about the Bible, it's looking for a short synthesized it's looking for a short synthesized it's looking for a short synthesized answer that it can basically just answer that it can basically just answer that it can basically just regurgitate for you. So, it doesn't want regurgitate for you. So, it doesn't want regurgitate for you. So, it doesn't want to, believe it or not, AI doesn't want to, believe it or not, AI doesn't want to, believe it or not, AI doesn't want to have to think. It doesn't want to to have to think. It doesn't want to to have to think. It doesn't want to have to extrapolate the information and have to extrapolate the information and have to extrapolate the information and summarize it itself. It wants you to summarize it itself. It wants you to summarize it itself. It wants you to summarize for it. So, that's the way summarize for it. So, that's the way summarize for it. So, that's the way that I would approach those pages. lots that I would approach those pages. lots that I would approach those pages. lots of questions using H1 and H2 headings of questions using H1 and H2 headings of questions using H1 and H2 headings for the primary questions that people for the primary questions that people for the primary questions that people are asking and then short succinct are asking and then short succinct are asking and then short succinct bite-size answers that give the AI model bite-size answers that give the AI model bite-size answers that give the AI model a really clear uh piece of information a really clear uh piece of information a really clear uh piece of information that it can return to the user. So, hey, that it can return to the user. So, hey, that it can return to the user. So, hey, we we we digress a little bit there. We we we we digress a little bit there. We we we we digress a little bit there. We got more into what you should have on got more into what you should have on got more into what you should have on your website than what you shouldn't.

your website than what you shouldn't. your website than what you shouldn't. The next one, um, number four, something The next one, um, number four, something The next one, um, number four, something you probably shouldn't have on your you probably shouldn't have on your you probably shouldn't have on your website or at least upfront center is website or at least upfront center is website or at least upfront center is memberonly tools and forms, things like memberonly tools and forms, things like memberonly tools and forms, things like facility requests, volunteer scheduling, facility requests, volunteer scheduling, facility requests, volunteer scheduling, uh, prayer chain loginins, um, giving uh, prayer chain loginins, um, giving uh, prayer chain loginins, um, giving statements that people can download. I statements that people can download. I statements that people can download. I mean, that's probably pretty rare, but, mean, that's probably pretty rare, but, mean, that's probably pretty rare, but, you know, there are all kinds of things you know, there are all kinds of things you know, there are all kinds of things that churches have that are more insider that churches have that are more insider that churches have that are more insider focused. Um, we don't necessarily want focused. Um, we don't necessarily want focused. Um, we don't necessarily want to be leading with those things. Any to be leading with those things. Any to be leading with those things. Any thoughts on that, Jason? Yeah, I I I thoughts on that, Jason? Yeah, I I I thoughts on that, Jason? Yeah, I I I don't know. This is just me. I I don't don't know. This is just me. I I don't don't know. This is just me. I I don't like the word membership when it comes like the word membership when it comes like the word membership when it comes to the church. to the church. to the church. Yeah. I mean, I I can go on about this, Yeah. I mean, I I can go on about this, Yeah. I mean, I I can go on about this, but you know, that's just so exclusive but you know, that's just so exclusive but you know, that's just so exclusive and oh, I'm not a member. I don't belong and oh, I'm not a member. I don't belong and oh, I'm not a member. I don't belong there. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. there. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. there. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's that's not the that's not the way That's that's not the that's not the way That's that's not the that's not the way God thinks. So, I'm you got to be really God thinks. So, I'm you got to be really God thinks. So, I'm you got to be really mindful, guys. Now, if you have mindful, guys. Now, if you have mindful, guys. Now, if you have memberships, I get that, you know, you memberships, I get that, you know, you memberships, I get that, you know, you you become a member of church and all you become a member of church and all you become a member of church and all that kind of stuff. and we have, you that kind of stuff. and we have, you that kind of stuff. and we have, you know, traditions and all that stuff's know, traditions and all that stuff's know, traditions and all that stuff's important. I would just be really important. I would just be really important. I would just be really careful, especially if I'm looking at careful, especially if I'm looking at careful, especially if I'm looking at your homepage above the fold and I'm your homepage above the fold and I'm your homepage above the fold and I'm looking at the top right and I see looking at the top right and I see looking at the top right and I see member members as a link. That's such a member members as a link. That's such a member members as a link. That's such a turnoff in my opinion because I I'm turnoff in my opinion because I I'm turnoff in my opinion because I I'm like, "Oh, I guess I don't I don't like, "Oh, I guess I don't I don't like, "Oh, I guess I don't I don't belong there. I guess I'll move on belong there. I guess I'll move on belong there. I guess I'll move on because, you know, they have something because, you know, they have something because, you know, they have something for members only." I'm just being for members only." I'm just being for members only." I'm just being mindful of that. So, I'd be careful mindful of that. So, I'd be careful mindful of that. So, I'd be careful about what I put there. you know, about what I put there. you know, about what I put there. you know, there's nothing wrong with having a link there's nothing wrong with having a link there's nothing wrong with having a link about, you know, for tools and forms and about, you know, for tools and forms and about, you know, for tools and forms and stuff like that. Absolutely. Maybe put stuff like that. Absolutely. Maybe put stuff like that. Absolutely. Maybe put in the footer and be careful about what in the footer and be careful about what in the footer and be careful about what the what words you use. Um, simply

the what words you use. Um, simply the what words you use. Um, simply because I don't want to feel like, oh, because I don't want to feel like, oh, because I don't want to feel like, oh, you don't belong. It's hidden you don't belong. It's hidden you don't belong. It's hidden information and so we're kind of keeping information and so we're kind of keeping information and so we're kind of keeping stuff away from somebody. I just think stuff away from somebody. I just think stuff away from somebody. I just think we got to be really careful about that. we got to be really careful about that. we got to be really careful about that. >> Yeah. I mean, not not to get into the >> Yeah. I mean, not not to get into the >> Yeah. I mean, not not to get into the debate on membership because I actually debate on membership because I actually debate on membership because I actually am I'm a proponent for church am I'm a proponent for church am I'm a proponent for church membership. I I I love covenantal membership. I I I love covenantal membership. I I I love covenantal relationships that churches and and the relationships that churches and and the relationships that churches and and the people in the church body form with one people in the church body form with one people in the church body form with one another. It's really more about the the another. It's really more about the the another. It's really more about the the front-facing visibility of that. Because front-facing visibility of that. Because front-facing visibility of that. Because what we're not trying to do with our what we're not trying to do with our what we're not trying to do with our church website is to create an insider church website is to create an insider church website is to create an insider outsider kind of um mindset that that outsider kind of um mindset that that outsider kind of um mindset that that says right you are not in or you are says right you are not in or you are says right you are not in or you are out. Uh we really want to present you out. Uh we really want to present you out. Uh we really want to present you know roll out red carpet. You are know roll out red carpet. You are know roll out red carpet. You are welcome to come and explore, ask welcome to come and explore, ask welcome to come and explore, ask questions. uh you know find your questions. uh you know find your questions. uh you know find your community, find your way to God. Um you community, find your way to God. Um you community, find your way to God. Um you know I I mean on when it comes to know I I mean on when it comes to know I I mean on when it comes to language I typically don't like to use language I typically don't like to use language I typically don't like to use the word worship on the homepage of the the word worship on the homepage of the the word worship on the homepage of the website. Why? Because the one doesn't website. Why? Because the one doesn't website. Why? Because the one doesn't typically worship. 99 do. We're going to typically worship. 99 do. We're going to typically worship. 99 do. We're going to get together and we're going to worship get together and we're going to worship get together and we're going to worship every single Sunday. But I'm not every single Sunday. But I'm not every single Sunday. But I'm not inviting lost people to come and worship inviting lost people to come and worship inviting lost people to come and worship with us. I'm inviting lost people to with us. I'm inviting lost people to with us. I'm inviting lost people to come and explore with us to uh to to come and explore with us to uh to to come and explore with us to uh to to grow in their faith to form community to grow in their faith to form community to grow in their faith to form community to find God. I'm not inviting them to come find God. I'm not inviting them to come find God. I'm not inviting them to come and worship because well non-Christian and worship because well non-Christian and worship because well non-Christian people don't worship well they don't people don't worship well they don't people don't worship well they don't worship the same thing we worship we all worship the same thing we worship we all worship the same thing we worship we all worship something right so that kind of worship something right so that kind of worship something right so that kind of language yeah I I think that the the language yeah I I think that the the language yeah I I think that the the bigger point there is is the language bigger point there is is the language bigger point there is is the language that you're putting around that you're putting around that you're putting around I've seen I've seen one church that just

I've seen I've seen one church that just I've seen I've seen one church that just uh where their members they have a login uh where their members they have a login uh where their members they have a login to their um uh their church management to their um uh their church management to their um uh their church management software like their profile or something software like their profile or something software like their profile or something and instead of putting member login it and instead of putting member login it and instead of putting member login it just has a little thing in the footer just has a little thing in the footer just has a little thing in the footer that says you're a church login. That's that says you're a church login. That's that says you're a church login. That's all it says is your church login and all it says is your church login and all it says is your church login and that's fine. And if I click on that and that's fine. And if I click on that and that's fine. And if I click on that and I don't have a login, maybe I email the I don't have a login, maybe I email the I don't have a login, maybe I email the church and go, well, how can I get one church and go, well, how can I get one church and go, well, how can I get one of these, right? How do how do I get one of these, right? How do how do I get one of these, right? How do how do I get one of these login and what's what's behind of these login and what's what's behind of these login and what's what's behind there, right? I don't have that. So, I there, right? I don't have that. So, I there, right? I don't have that. So, I think it it does the lang language and think it it does the lang language and think it it does the lang language and the words that you use do matter. Um, the words that you use do matter. Um, the words that you use do matter. Um, >> y >> y >> y >> number five on our list, the last thing, >> number five on our list, the last thing, >> number five on our list, the last thing, this is just a pet peeve of mine and this is just a pet peeve of mine and this is just a pet peeve of mine and this one came up the other day as well this one came up the other day as well this one came up the other day as well because uh I was I was uh looking at a because uh I was I was uh looking at a because uh I was I was uh looking at a church with our colleague TA Tika and uh church with our colleague TA Tika and uh church with our colleague TA Tika and uh this this came up on on on the first this this came up on on on the first this this came up on on on the first conversation that I I I had with her conversation that I I I had with her conversation that I I I had with her about this particular church and that is about this particular church and that is about this particular church and that is a homepage click that takes people off a homepage click that takes people off a homepage click that takes people off of your website. Um, and and most of your website. Um, and and most of your website. Um, and and most churches don't think about this, but you churches don't think about this, but you churches don't think about this, but you have a registration or you have a sign have a registration or you have a sign have a registration or you have a sign up or you have something on the homepage up or you have something on the homepage up or you have something on the homepage that immediately takes them off of your that immediately takes them off of your that immediately takes them off of your domain and onto another domain. Uh, why domain and onto another domain. Uh, why domain and onto another domain. Uh, why don't you speak to speak to that for a don't you speak to speak to that for a don't you speak to speak to that for a second, Jason?

second, Jason? second, Jason? >> Probably the biggest one is uh watch. >> Probably the biggest one is uh watch. >> Probably the biggest one is uh watch. You know, you take them over to YouTube You know, you take them over to YouTube You know, you take them over to YouTube so they can watch the sermon. The so they can watch the sermon. The so they can watch the sermon. The problem with that guys is problem with that guys is problem with that guys is you're you're taking them away from your you're you're taking them away from your you're you're taking them away from your website and and what you know Google and website and and what you know Google and website and and what you know Google and other uh search engines are looking at other uh search engines are looking at other uh search engines are looking at in LLMs is time on site is how much time in LLMs is time on site is how much time in LLMs is time on site is how much time do people spend on your on your site. do people spend on your on your site. do people spend on your on your site. How many times are they clicking around? How many times are they clicking around? How many times are they clicking around? We call those conversions. And so if We call those conversions. And so if We call those conversions. And so if you're going to remove somebody from you're going to remove somebody from you're going to remove somebody from your website over to watch your sermon your website over to watch your sermon your website over to watch your sermon or like an Eventbrite or something like or like an Eventbrite or something like or like an Eventbrite or something like that, just be really careful about that that, just be really careful about that that, just be really careful about that because I I would not do that. I would because I I would not do that. I would because I I would not do that. I would try to keep them on our site. Embed the try to keep them on our site. Embed the try to keep them on our site. Embed the YouTube video on on a page, right? Um YouTube video on on a page, right? Um YouTube video on on a page, right? Um find a different form perhaps. Not that find a different form perhaps. Not that find a different form perhaps. Not that you can't have an Eventbrite uh for you can't have an Eventbrite uh for you can't have an Eventbrite uh for something else like you know that's a something else like you know that's a something else like you know that's a different conversation. But my I think different conversation. But my I think different conversation. But my I think your point is and our point here is that your point is and our point here is that your point is and our point here is that you don't want to you don't want to you don't want to you don't want to you don't want to you don't want to intentionally be removing people from intentionally be removing people from intentionally be removing people from your website. That is not a good your website. That is not a good your website. That is not a good practice. It should never happen. And practice. It should never happen. And practice. It should never happen. And you're kicking yourself and you're you're kicking yourself and you're you're kicking yourself and you're cutting down your domain authority and cutting down your domain authority and cutting down your domain authority and you're cutting down your attraction from you're cutting down your attraction from you're cutting down your attraction from Google and other LLMs because they look Google and other LLMs because they look Google and other LLMs because they look at your site and say, "Yeah, you're at your site and say, "Yeah, you're at your site and say, "Yeah, you're pretty irrelevant. You only have like 5 pretty irrelevant. You only have like 5 pretty irrelevant. You only have like 5 seconds people on your and they keep seconds people on your and they keep seconds people on your and they keep bouncing. They keep going off of your bouncing. They keep going off of your bouncing. They keep going off of your site. So, just be mindful about that.

site. So, just be mindful about that. site. So, just be mindful about that. Um, you know, I I'm there's lots of Um, you know, I I'm there's lots of Um, you know, I I'm there's lots of different ways and strategies to keep different ways and strategies to keep different ways and strategies to keep people on your site and get them people on your site and get them people on your site and get them clicking. And that's the goal is to get clicking. And that's the goal is to get clicking. And that's the goal is to get them into a seat or to feed them. Feed them into a seat or to feed them. Feed them into a seat or to feed them. Feed them on your website. Don't feed them them on your website. Don't feed them them on your website. Don't feed them over in YouTube where then shiny ball over in YouTube where then shiny ball over in YouTube where then shiny ball syndrome happens and they start seeing syndrome happens and they start seeing syndrome happens and they start seeing like, you know, a kitty dancing around. like, you know, a kitty dancing around. like, you know, a kitty dancing around. So, they go click on that. Now, they're So, they go click on that. Now, they're So, they go click on that. Now, they're off of your sermon. off of your sermon. off of your sermon. >> That's a good point. That's such a good >> That's a good point. That's such a good >> That's a good point. That's such a good point. Like, oh, so I'm I'm an point. Like, oh, so I'm I'm an point. Like, oh, so I'm I'm an Eventbrite guy and anybody who's ever Eventbrite guy and anybody who's ever Eventbrite guy and anybody who's ever worked with me knows that I say, "Hey, worked with me knows that I say, "Hey, worked with me knows that I say, "Hey, if you're having an event and it's open if you're having an event and it's open if you're having an event and it's open to the community, you should post it on to the community, you should post it on to the community, you should post it on Eventbrite and you should I we just we Eventbrite and you should I we just we Eventbrite and you should I we just we just host an event at my church." And we just host an event at my church." And we just host an event at my church." And we ran ads and the ads go to a landing page ran ads and the ads go to a landing page ran ads and the ads go to a landing page and the landing page tells you that you and the landing page tells you that you and the landing page tells you that you have to register with Eventbrite to get have to register with Eventbrite to get have to register with Eventbrite to get your tickets. Now, you can embed the your tickets. Now, you can embed the your tickets. Now, you can embed the Eventbrite form into your website. It's Eventbrite form into your website. It's Eventbrite form into your website. It's kind of clunky. It's not very kind of clunky. It's not very kind of clunky. It's not very attractive, but here's the deal. If I attractive, but here's the deal. If I attractive, but here's the deal. If I send people over to Eventbrite, they send people over to Eventbrite, they send people over to Eventbrite, they might go, "Oh, I wonder what else is might go, "Oh, I wonder what else is might go, "Oh, I wonder what else is going on in my community at this time." going on in my community at this time." going on in my community at this time." And so they start searching around on And so they start searching around on And so they start searching around on Eventbrite and the next thing you know, Eventbrite and the next thing you know, Eventbrite and the next thing you know, they forgot about the ad that they they forgot about the ad that they they forgot about the ad that they clicked to get to your page to learn clicked to get to your page to learn clicked to get to your page to learn about your event because they found about your event because they found about your event because they found something that looks and sounds a lot something that looks and sounds a lot something that looks and sounds a lot better than your event on Eventbrite.

better than your event on Eventbrite. better than your event on Eventbrite. Um, the one that we see often is Um, the one that we see often is Um, the one that we see often is churches will I get to the homepage and churches will I get to the homepage and churches will I get to the homepage and there's a button that says plan a visit there's a button that says plan a visit there's a button that says plan a visit >> and I hit the plan a visit button and it >> and I hit the plan a visit button and it >> and I hit the plan a visit button and it immediately takes me over to a planning immediately takes me over to a planning immediately takes me over to a planning center form where they're asking you to center form where they're asking you to center form where they're asking you to fill stuff out and it's never brand it's fill stuff out and it's never brand it's fill stuff out and it's never brand it's never branded for your church. It's it's never branded for your church. It's it's never branded for your church. It's it's never it you can embed those or do never it you can embed those or do never it you can embed those or do popups or something of that nature. Now, popups or something of that nature. Now, popups or something of that nature. Now, if if you if you want people to plan a if if you if you want people to plan a if if you if you want people to plan a visit for starters, you should have a visit for starters, you should have a visit for starters, you should have a plan a visit page. So that first click plan a visit page. So that first click plan a visit page. So that first click should actually take them to another should actually take them to another should actually take them to another page on your website that gives them page on your website that gives them page on your website that gives them more information about their first time more information about their first time more information about their first time experience with your church. And then if experience with your church. And then if experience with your church. And then if you need to have a form or you want to you need to have a form or you want to you need to have a form or you want to have a form that people fill out to let have a form that people fill out to let have a form that people fill out to let you know that they're coming or to you know that they're coming or to you know that they're coming or to receive a previsit email or something of receive a previsit email or something of receive a previsit email or something of that nature, then you can use your that nature, then you can use your that nature, then you can use your church management software form to do church management software form to do church management software form to do that. Now, personally, I don't I use an that. Now, personally, I don't I use an that. Now, personally, I don't I use an embedded form in our PLA website embedded form in our PLA website embedded form in our PLA website platform because I don't want every platform because I don't want every platform because I don't want every person that comes to the website who person that comes to the website who person that comes to the website who fills out a form to end up in my church fills out a form to end up in my church fills out a form to end up in my church management software because they may not management software because they may not management software because they may not actually ever show up. And so now, if I actually ever show up. And so now, if I actually ever show up. And so now, if I I mean, I we use a we use a call to I mean, I we use a we use a call to I mean, I we use a we use a call to action on our church website that's let action on our church website that's let action on our church website that's let us send you a previsit email. You and I us send you a previsit email. You and I us send you a previsit email. You and I have talked about this before have talked about this before have talked about this before >> and we get these forms filled out every >> and we get these forms filled out every >> and we get these forms filled out every single week. And actually, I would say single week. And actually, I would say single week. And actually, I would say probably about a third to half of the probably about a third to half of the probably about a third to half of the people who fill out the form actually people who fill out the form actually people who fill out the form actually show up on a Sunday. Which means if over show up on a Sunday. Which means if over show up on a Sunday. Which means if over the course of the last couple of months, the course of the last couple of months, the course of the last couple of months, I'm getting, you know, three, four, five I'm getting, you know, three, four, five I'm getting, you know, three, four, five of these a week and I've added maybe 20 of these a week and I've added maybe 20 of these a week and I've added maybe 20 or 30 new contacts into my church or 30 new contacts into my church or 30 new contacts into my church management software, but only half of management software, but only half of management software, but only half of those people have ever showed up. Why am those people have ever showed up. Why am those people have ever showed up. Why am I continuing to add people into my

I continuing to add people into my I continuing to add people into my church management software who haven't church management software who haven't church management software who haven't ever actually attended my church? So, I ever actually attended my church? So, I ever actually attended my church? So, I just use a separate form. I have it just use a separate form. I have it just use a separate form. I have it APIed to an email platform. So that if APIed to an email platform. So that if APIed to an email platform. So that if they fill out that form on my website, they fill out that form on my website, they fill out that form on my website, it goes right to our email platform that it goes right to our email platform that it goes right to our email platform that fires off their previsit email and a fires off their previsit email and a fires off their previsit email and a previsit text. Right. That's the way previsit text. Right. That's the way previsit text. Right. That's the way that we have that structured. So it that we have that structured. So it that we have that structured. So it keeps them on my website rather than keeps them on my website rather than keeps them on my website rather than taking them somewhere else to fill out taking them somewhere else to fill out taking them somewhere else to fill out that form. that form. that form. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yeah. Um well, but okay, we've we've >> Yeah. Um well, but okay, we've we've >> Yeah. Um well, but okay, we've we've talked about a lot of things that talked about a lot of things that talked about a lot of things that shouldn't be on your church website. shouldn't be on your church website. shouldn't be on your church website. We've talked about a few things that We've talked about a few things that We've talked about a few things that should be on your church website. Let's should be on your church website. Let's should be on your church website. Let's go back to sort of our basics. Like what go back to sort of our basics. Like what go back to sort of our basics. Like what are the primary things, Jason, that if are the primary things, Jason, that if are the primary things, Jason, that if I'm going to go and do an audit on my I'm going to go and do an audit on my I'm going to go and do an audit on my website, what are the things that I need website, what are the things that I need website, what are the things that I need to be able to readily see, identify, and to be able to readily see, identify, and to be able to readily see, identify, and find within the first few seconds that find within the first few seconds that find within the first few seconds that I'm on the website? I'm on the website? I'm on the website? >> Well, I'll go through this little little >> Well, I'll go through this little little >> Well, I'll go through this little little list because it's a really good list. list because it's a really good list. list because it's a really good list. I'm also going to say this. I think it's I'm also going to say this. I think it's I'm also going to say this. I think it's really important, guys, you hear me loud really important, guys, you hear me loud really important, guys, you hear me loud and clear that content and clear that content and clear that content matters. matters. matters. content that uh SEO, you know, Google content that uh SEO, you know, Google content that uh SEO, you know, Google and Bing and Yahoo and LLMs can crawl.

and Bing and Yahoo and LLMs can crawl. and Bing and Yahoo and LLMs can crawl. So, around here, we we kind of preach So, around here, we we kind of preach So, around here, we we kind of preach the idea that you want to have a minimum the idea that you want to have a minimum the idea that you want to have a minimum of 1500 words on your website, on your of 1500 words on your website, on your of 1500 words on your website, on your homepage of your website. People go, homepage of your website. People go, homepage of your website. People go, "What?" Yeah, because content matters. "What?" Yeah, because content matters. "What?" Yeah, because content matters. And if if you don't believe Bart and I, And if if you don't believe Bart and I, And if if you don't believe Bart and I, just go do some research, right? Go ask. just go do some research, right? Go ask. just go do some research, right? Go ask. It matters. Go ask AI what AI wants. I'm It matters. Go ask AI what AI wants. I'm It matters. Go ask AI what AI wants. I'm telling you. So, you know, just some telling you. So, you know, just some telling you. So, you know, just some things obviously that is really easy for things obviously that is really easy for things obviously that is really easy for me to find. So, it's for the user and me to find. So, it's for the user and me to find. So, it's for the user and it's for, you know, SEO and GEO it's for, you know, SEO and GEO it's for, you know, SEO and GEO purposes. Service times, right? purposes. Service times, right? purposes. Service times, right? Obviously, put in your service times, Obviously, put in your service times, Obviously, put in your service times, your location. Oh my goodness. You you your location. Oh my goodness. You you your location. Oh my goodness. You you sometimes you have to literally I have sometimes you have to literally I have sometimes you have to literally I have to search for where you're located. Come to search for where you're located. Come to search for where you're located. Come on. I should be right there where I can on. I should be right there where I can on. I should be right there where I can see service times, how location, and see service times, how location, and see service times, how location, and maybe direct get directions. click, maybe direct get directions. click, maybe direct get directions. click, which is okay because it's going to take which is okay because it's going to take which is okay because it's going to take you over to Google Maps. Okay, that's you over to Google Maps. Okay, that's you over to Google Maps. Okay, that's fine. I'm looking for service times. I'm fine. I'm looking for service times. I'm fine. I'm looking for service times. I'm looking for location and parking. Where looking for location and parking. Where looking for location and parking. Where do I park? We have parking that's on do I park? We have parking that's on do I park? We have parking that's on campus. Or maybe some of you all have campus. Or maybe some of you all have campus. Or maybe some of you all have >> like I I go to a church that has parking >> like I I go to a church that has parking >> like I I go to a church that has parking issues, right? So, sometimes you have issues, right? So, sometimes you have issues, right? So, sometimes you have shuttles. So, you have to explain that shuttles. So, you have to explain that shuttles. So, you have to explain that what to expect, you know, on your first what to expect, you know, on your first what to expect, you know, on your first visit, including like a link to kids visit, including like a link to kids visit, including like a link to kids check-in, right? For those moms who want check-in, right? For those moms who want check-in, right? For those moms who want to come and make sure they don't want to to come and make sure they don't want to to come and make sure they don't want to come and miss so much, pre-check your come and miss so much, pre-check your come and miss so much, pre-check your kids in, make that super duper easy. As kids in, make that super duper easy. As kids in, make that super duper easy. As Bart Yuri talked about, like a planning Bart Yuri talked about, like a planning Bart Yuri talked about, like a planning center form, try to keep them on your center form, try to keep them on your center form, try to keep them on your website. Um, probably the most important website. Um, probably the most important website. Um, probably the most important one I think is having a plan your visit one I think is having a plan your visit one I think is having a plan your visit form and just do yourself a favor, okay?

form and just do yourself a favor, okay? form and just do yourself a favor, okay? Um, go check out, you know, different Um, go check out, you know, different Um, go check out, you know, different companies like credit card companies, companies like credit card companies, companies like credit card companies, insurance companies. When you go to insurance companies. When you go to insurance companies. When you go to those companies, they want you to do one those companies, they want you to do one those companies, they want you to do one thing. They don't give you all kinds of thing. They don't give you all kinds of thing. They don't give you all kinds of options. They want you to do one thing. options. They want you to do one thing. options. They want you to do one thing. They want you to sign up to get their They want you to sign up to get their They want you to sign up to get their credit card or sign up to get insurance. credit card or sign up to get insurance. credit card or sign up to get insurance. Just start the form. They just want you. Just start the form. They just want you. Just start the form. They just want you. We got to think that kind of mindset. We We got to think that kind of mindset. We We got to think that kind of mindset. We really want you in person. We can't wait really want you in person. We can't wait really want you in person. We can't wait to meet you. We can't wait to have you to meet you. We can't wait to have you to meet you. We can't wait to have you come to our church and experience life come to our church and experience life come to our church and experience life and hope and peace, right? And so I and hope and peace, right? And so I and hope and peace, right? And so I would be making the plan your visit form would be making the plan your visit form would be making the plan your visit form loud and clear throughout the whole f loud and clear throughout the whole f loud and clear throughout the whole f you know the whole page of the homepage. you know the whole page of the homepage. you know the whole page of the homepage. Um who we are and what we believe. I Um who we are and what we believe. I Um who we are and what we believe. I think that's really really important. think that's really really important. think that's really really important. There's a lot of confusion. Here's the There's a lot of confusion. Here's the There's a lot of confusion. Here's the you've said this Bart and I'd love it you've said this Bart and I'd love it you've said this Bart and I'd love it when you say this. We assume you as a when you say this. We assume you as a when you say this. We assume you as a new person walk through the doors are new person walk through the doors are new person walk through the doors are already believers. You say this in the already believers. You say this in the already believers. You say this in the in in the in the road shows and I just I in in the in the road shows and I just I in in the in the road shows and I just I lean in because he'll say we have this lean in because he'll say we have this lean in because he'll say we have this problem thinking you're just like me. problem thinking you're just like me. problem thinking you're just like me. Welcome to our church. you believe Jesus Welcome to our church. you believe Jesus Welcome to our church. you believe Jesus just like I do. No, that's not true.

just like I do. No, that's not true. just like I do. No, that's not true. Right? They're they're they're maybe Right? They're they're they're maybe Right? They're they're they're maybe smiling, but they inside they're like, smiling, but they inside they're like, smiling, but they inside they're like, "I have no clue who God is. I've never "I have no clue who God is. I've never "I have no clue who God is. I've never been to church before." And so, I think been to church before." And so, I think been to church before." And so, I think on our website, you know, in short, on our website, you know, in short, on our website, you know, in short, really nice bite-sized pieces, just who really nice bite-sized pieces, just who really nice bite-sized pieces, just who we are and what we believe. I I love we are and what we believe. I I love we are and what we believe. I I love talking about um having a sermon, even talking about um having a sermon, even talking about um having a sermon, even having a last week's message or sermon having a last week's message or sermon having a last week's message or sermon clips. How many churches do, you know, clips. How many churches do, you know, clips. How many churches do, you know, the short clips they put on social the short clips they put on social the short clips they put on social media? Put those on your website from media? Put those on your website from media? Put those on your website from time to time. If it's a really great time to time. If it's a really great time to time. If it's a really great nugget, it's like a, you know, mic drop nugget, it's like a, you know, mic drop nugget, it's like a, you know, mic drop moment your pastor just said, put that moment your pastor just said, put that moment your pastor just said, put that to your homepage. Let somebody get a to your homepage. Let somebody get a to your homepage. Let somebody get a taste, a 30- secondond taste of what taste, a 30- secondond taste of what taste, a 30- secondond taste of what your pastors like to preach. I think your pastors like to preach. I think your pastors like to preach. I think that goes a long way because they're that goes a long way because they're that goes a long way because they're like, "Oh, I liked what he had to say. I like, "Oh, I liked what he had to say. I like, "Oh, I liked what he had to say. I think I want to show up." Right? Um, and think I want to show up." Right? Um, and think I want to show up." Right? Um, and then probably the last one you put here then probably the last one you put here then probably the last one you put here is clear next steps. Just make don't is clear next steps. Just make don't is clear next steps. Just make don't make me think. make me think. make me think. >> Great book. Great book. I read years >> Great book. Great book. I read years >> Great book. Great book. I read years ago. Don't make me think. If you cause ago. Don't make me think. If you cause ago. Don't make me think. If you cause me to have to start thinking, me to have to start thinking, me to have to start thinking, you've lost me. Right? So, it's clear you've lost me. Right? So, it's clear you've lost me. Right? So, it's clear next steps, you know. Um, we tend to put next steps, you know. Um, we tend to put next steps, you know. Um, we tend to put like we want you to, you know, um, do like we want you to, you know, um, do like we want you to, you know, um, do this, this, and this. Oh, okay. But this, this, and this. Oh, okay. But this, this, and this. Oh, okay. But you're making me think which one do I do you're making me think which one do I do you're making me think which one do I do first? In fact, I'll see a first step first? In fact, I'll see a first step first? In fact, I'll see a first step and a next step. Well, what?

and a next step. Well, what? and a next step. Well, what? I'm not sure what step I'm on. Am I on I'm not sure what step I'm on. Am I on I'm not sure what step I'm on. Am I on my first step or is this my next step? my first step or is this my next step? my first step or is this my next step? How many churches have a first step and How many churches have a first step and How many churches have a first step and a next step in the navbar? What? What a next step in the navbar? What? What a next step in the navbar? What? What are you? You're confusing me. So, I are you? You're confusing me. So, I are you? You're confusing me. So, I think just what belongs I'd clear next think just what belongs I'd clear next think just what belongs I'd clear next steps and make it super simple. steps and make it super simple. steps and make it super simple. >> Yeah, I agree with that. I, you know, we >> Yeah, I agree with that. I, you know, we >> Yeah, I agree with that. I, you know, we we we see this often um where churches we we see this often um where churches we we see this often um where churches are using a theme uh whether it's a are using a theme uh whether it's a are using a theme uh whether it's a WordPress theme or something from WordPress theme or something from WordPress theme or something from Squarespace or something and their theme Squarespace or something and their theme Squarespace or something and their theme has built in multiple calls to action has built in multiple calls to action has built in multiple calls to action above the fold. And so, you might see above the fold. And so, you might see above the fold. And so, you might see three different CTAs. One is plan a three different CTAs. One is plan a three different CTAs. One is plan a visit, the other one is watch live, and visit, the other one is watch live, and visit, the other one is watch live, and the next one is watch sermons. the next one is watch sermons. the next one is watch sermons. And if I'm if I'm honest with you, like And if I'm if I'm honest with you, like And if I'm if I'm honest with you, like what do I really want a person to do? what do I really want a person to do? what do I really want a person to do? Well, I want them to plan their visit. I Well, I want them to plan their visit. I Well, I want them to plan their visit. I want them to show up in person want them to show up in person want them to show up in person >> and see and see. Yeah. >> and see and see. Yeah. >> and see and see. Yeah. >> I mean, I I think yes, we recognize that >> I mean, I I think yes, we recognize that >> I mean, I I think yes, we recognize that most people are probably not going to most people are probably not going to most people are probably not going to show up in person for a first-time visit show up in person for a first-time visit show up in person for a first-time visit without probably watching a sermon or without probably watching a sermon or without probably watching a sermon or listening to a sermon online. But I listening to a sermon online. But I listening to a sermon online. But I think that that can be in the navbar think that that can be in the navbar think that that can be in the navbar without being the primary call to without being the primary call to without being the primary call to action. Um, and so I I just, yeah, action. Um, and so I I just, yeah, action. Um, and so I I just, yeah, simple first step, simple first step, simple first step, >> simple next step, whatever you're going >> simple next step, whatever you're going >> simple next step, whatever you're going to to call it. Uh, but just make sure to to call it. Uh, but just make sure to to call it. Uh, but just make sure that you you just look at your website that you you just look at your website that you you just look at your website from an outsider standpoint. You know, from an outsider standpoint. You know, from an outsider standpoint. You know, think about the neighbor that you have think about the neighbor that you have think about the neighbor that you have who's far from God who you'd love to who's far from God who you'd love to who's far from God who you'd love to have come to your church and go to the have come to your church and go to the have come to your church and go to the website and look with their lens and website and look with their lens and website and look with their lens and say, "What would they see? How would say, "What would they see? How would say, "What would they see? How would they interpret this? Am I making it easy they interpret this? Am I making it easy they interpret this? Am I making it easy for them?" And if you're not, then fix for them?" And if you're not, then fix for them?" And if you're not, then fix it. You know, a lot of churches will

it. You know, a lot of churches will it. You know, a lot of churches will launch websites. This is again something launch websites. This is again something launch websites. This is again something it's frustrating to me. A church will it's frustrating to me. A church will it's frustrating to me. A church will spend time, money, effort, energy, and spend time, money, effort, energy, and spend time, money, effort, energy, and launch a website and then pretend that launch a website and then pretend that launch a website and then pretend that it's done and it's static and they can't it's done and it's static and they can't it's done and it's static and they can't actually improve upon it. And what we do actually improve upon it. And what we do actually improve upon it. And what we do with churches often is that we we go and with churches often is that we we go and with churches often is that we we go and we look under the hood. We look at the we look under the hood. We look at the we look under the hood. We look at the Google Analytics. We see what Google Analytics. We see what Google Analytics. We see what engagements people are clicking on or engagements people are clicking on or engagements people are clicking on or what they're not. And then we say, what they're not. And then we say, what they're not. And then we say, "Let's make changes. Let's make "Let's make changes. Let's make "Let's make changes. Let's make improvements." Think about your website improvements." Think about your website improvements." Think about your website as a living organism and something that as a living organism and something that as a living organism and something that you need to be constantly tweaking and you need to be constantly tweaking and you need to be constantly tweaking and making improvements on, not something making improvements on, not something making improvements on, not something that you just launch and forget about. that you just launch and forget about. that you just launch and forget about. It's it's not a print. It's not print It's it's not a print. It's not print It's it's not a print. It's not print material, right? I mean, you and I have material, right? I mean, you and I have material, right? I mean, you and I have both we have both printed many many both we have both printed many many both we have both printed many many church brochures and many many postcards church brochures and many many postcards church brochures and many many postcards and things like that. Once that's and things like that. Once that's and things like that. Once that's printed, like you can't do anything with printed, like you can't do anything with printed, like you can't do anything with it, but your website is not printed. It it, but your website is not printed. It it, but your website is not printed. It is actually alive and you can actually is actually alive and you can actually is actually alive and you can actually massage it. you can do things to it to massage it. you can do things to it to massage it. you can do things to it to make it improve both the user experience make it improve both the user experience make it improve both the user experience as well as the optimization for SEO and as well as the optimization for SEO and as well as the optimization for SEO and GEO. GEO. GEO. >> Yeah, let me let me piggyback on that >> Yeah, let me let me piggyback on that >> Yeah, let me let me piggyback on that for just a second. You said something for just a second. You said something for just a second. You said something was really key and that is from the lens was really key and that is from the lens was really key and that is from the lens of an unchurched dechurched person, of an unchurched dechurched person, of an unchurched dechurched person, fresh set of eyes. take a look at your fresh set of eyes. take a look at your fresh set of eyes. take a look at your website. Try and you know, find some website. Try and you know, find some website. Try and you know, find some people. Maybe you got a buddy who people. Maybe you got a buddy who people. Maybe you got a buddy who doesn't go to your church, right? Or a doesn't go to your church, right? Or a doesn't go to your church, right? Or a neighbor and say, "Hey, I'm this is what neighbor and say, "Hey, I'm this is what neighbor and say, "Hey, I'm this is what I do for a living. I don't know if you I do for a living. I don't know if you I do for a living. I don't know if you know this, but I work for this church."

know this, but I work for this church." know this, but I work for this church." And say, "Would you mind, you know, I And say, "Would you mind, you know, I And say, "Would you mind, you know, I just had a friend who did that for me in just had a friend who did that for me in just had a friend who did that for me in in his business." He's like, "Can you in his business." He's like, "Can you in his business." He's like, "Can you take a a look at my at our web at my take a a look at my at our web at my take a a look at my at our web at my website?" I'm like, "Sure, no problem. website?" I'm like, "Sure, no problem. website?" I'm like, "Sure, no problem. Because I don't I don't know anything Because I don't I don't know anything Because I don't I don't know anything about what you do." and and just give about what you do." and and just give about what you do." and and just give that honest feedback because I think that honest feedback because I think that honest feedback because I think that's so important that we we look at that's so important that we we look at that's so important that we we look at our website with a fresh set of eyes our website with a fresh set of eyes our website with a fresh set of eyes focused on our target audience. So if focused on our target audience. So if focused on our target audience. So if your target audience is a 99, okay, no your target audience is a 99, okay, no your target audience is a 99, okay, no problem. That's my next point is you got problem. That's my next point is you got problem. That's my next point is you got to figure out your culture. You know to figure out your culture. You know to figure out your culture. You know your culture. You got to kind of what your culture. You got to kind of what your culture. You got to kind of what fits with your culture, what doesn't fit fits with your culture, what doesn't fit fits with your culture, what doesn't fit with your culture. So we're we're saying with your culture. So we're we're saying with your culture. So we're we're saying stuff that's just kind of as natural to stuff that's just kind of as natural to stuff that's just kind of as natural to go after the one. But I also understand go after the one. But I also understand go after the one. But I also understand that you don't always control exactly that you don't always control exactly that you don't always control exactly how things get set on your website. Your how things get set on your website. Your how things get set on your website. Your your your executive team does or your your your executive team does or your your your executive team does or your boss does, whoever that might be. So boss does, whoever that might be. So boss does, whoever that might be. So common sense has to be a part of this. common sense has to be a part of this. common sense has to be a part of this. But I just think it's important that we But I just think it's important that we But I just think it's important that we we we take that we take that time to we we take that we take that time to we we take that we take that time to look at our website objectively and go look at our website objectively and go look at our website objectively and go are we are we in unintentionally pushing are we are we in unintentionally pushing are we are we in unintentionally pushing people away or or confusing people or or people away or or confusing people or or people away or or confusing people or or uh you know are we so insider focused uh you know are we so insider focused uh you know are we so insider focused that you know we have sacred cows around that you know we have sacred cows around that you know we have sacred cows around here and we can't change things be here and we can't change things be here and we can't change things be because of so and so did something 20 because of so and so did something 20 because of so and so did something 20 years ago and that can never change. you years ago and that can never change. you years ago and that can never change. you know, maybe it's time to revisit some of know, maybe it's time to revisit some of know, maybe it's time to revisit some of that stuff because we desperately care that stuff because we desperately care that stuff because we desperately care about people who don't know Jesus, who about people who don't know Jesus, who about people who don't know Jesus, who don't go to church. That's why we have a don't go to church. That's why we have a don't go to church. That's why we have a website and the and and the website's website and the and and the website's website and the and and the website's not the goal. We know this, right? The

not the goal. We know this, right? The not the goal. We know this, right? The goal is get them into a seat so they can goal is get them into a seat so they can goal is get them into a seat so they can hear the gospel. But I will say that I hear the gospel. But I will say that I hear the gospel. But I will say that I think a lot of people land on your think a lot of people land on your think a lot of people land on your websites with other felt needs. We call websites with other felt needs. We call websites with other felt needs. We call those ring three. You know, Bart and I those ring three. You know, Bart and I those ring three. You know, Bart and I have talked about this a lot. People have talked about this a lot. People have talked about this a lot. People that are struggling with marriage that are struggling with marriage that are struggling with marriage problems or addictions or grief or problems or addictions or grief or problems or addictions or grief or they're lying on your website because they're lying on your website because they're lying on your website because they have faith. They have a faith they have faith. They have a faith they have faith. They have a faith crisis. they they're looking for help. crisis. they they're looking for help. crisis. they they're looking for help. So maybe their first thing is you want So maybe their first thing is you want So maybe their first thing is you want to talk to a pastor, we'd love to to talk to a pastor, we'd love to to talk to a pastor, we'd love to connect with you and help you navigate connect with you and help you navigate connect with you and help you navigate what what you're going through. God what what you're going through. God what what you're going through. God loves you. He he's not turning his back loves you. He he's not turning his back loves you. He he's not turning his back on you. We won't either. Come talk to on you. We won't either. Come talk to on you. We won't either. Come talk to us. So just I don't know, take that that us. So just I don't know, take that that us. So just I don't know, take that that that approach and just through that that approach and just through that that approach and just through that lens. Um re-evaluate your website. I lens. Um re-evaluate your website. I lens. Um re-evaluate your website. I think that'll be a really healthy thing think that'll be a really healthy thing think that'll be a really healthy thing to do here in October. to do here in October. to do here in October. >> Yeah. Um I think that's uh a great place >> Yeah. Um I think that's uh a great place >> Yeah. Um I think that's uh a great place to to land this. I should probably to to land this. I should probably to to land this. I should probably mention that uh we do have a free audit mention that uh we do have a free audit mention that uh we do have a free audit that you can actually get of your that you can actually get of your that you can actually get of your website. It's not necessarily going to website. It's not necessarily going to website. It's not necessarily going to walk through the user experience, which walk through the user experience, which walk through the user experience, which is really what this episode has been is really what this episode has been is really what this episode has been focused on, but it will actually do an focused on, but it will actually do an focused on, but it will actually do an audit your website from an SEO and a audit your website from an SEO and a audit your website from an SEO and a generative engine optimization, like how generative engine optimization, like how generative engine optimization, like how is your church actually showing up in is your church actually showing up in is your church actually showing up in searches? Is it able to be found um by searches? Is it able to be found um by searches? Is it able to be found um by AI? And uh you we'll link to it uh in AI? And uh you we'll link to it uh in AI? And uh you we'll link to it uh in the show notes of the podcast episode the show notes of the podcast episode the show notes of the podcast episode here. Uh you can click over and get that here. Uh you can click over and get that here. Uh you can click over and get that free audit. And uh there's no obligation free audit. And uh there's no obligation free audit. And uh there's no obligation to that. It's just something that we to that. It's just something that we to that. It's just something that we want to be able to provide for churches want to be able to provide for churches want to be able to provide for churches to help them uh make the changes to to help them uh make the changes to to help them uh make the changes to their website that they need to given their website that they need to given their website that they need to given the pace at which the internet is the pace at which the internet is the pace at which the internet is changing, which is crazy fast. So, um changing, which is crazy fast. So, um changing, which is crazy fast. So, um hey, we're going to call this one done.

hey, we're going to call this one done. hey, we're going to call this one done. Jason, thanks so much for hanging out Jason, thanks so much for hanging out Jason, thanks so much for hanging out with me today. Uh for those of you who with me today. Uh for those of you who with me today. Uh for those of you who have made it all the way here to the end have made it all the way here to the end have made it all the way here to the end of this episode, thank you for hanging of this episode, thank you for hanging of this episode, thank you for hanging out with us as well. If you haven't yet out with us as well. If you haven't yet out with us as well. If you haven't yet subscribed wherever you listen to your subscribed wherever you listen to your subscribed wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts, uh please be sure favorite podcasts, uh please be sure favorite podcasts, uh please be sure that you do that. We're not always super that you do that. We're not always super that you do that. We're not always super consistent with uh the delivery of these consistent with uh the delivery of these consistent with uh the delivery of these podcast episodes. And so if you're podcast episodes. And so if you're podcast episodes. And so if you're subscribed, uh it'll automatically get subscribed, uh it'll automatically get subscribed, uh it'll automatically get uh downloaded to whatever platform uh downloaded to whatever platform uh downloaded to whatever platform you're uh listening to this podcast on you're uh listening to this podcast on you're uh listening to this podcast on or if you're watching on our YouTube or if you're watching on our YouTube or if you're watching on our YouTube channel, uh be sure that you subscribe channel, uh be sure that you subscribe channel, uh be sure that you subscribe and ring the bell there uh so that you and ring the bell there uh so that you and ring the bell there uh so that you get notified when we have new episodes. get notified when we have new episodes. get notified when we have new episodes. Uh on behalf of Jason, I'm Bart. Thanks Uh on behalf of Jason, I'm Bart. Thanks Uh on behalf of Jason, I'm Bart. Thanks again for tuning in. We'll see you next again for tuning in. We'll see you next again for tuning in. We'll see you next time.