The Internet As a Mission Field | Caleb Weidman

[Music] [Music] in almost every case in my experience in almost every case in my experience in almost every case in my experience when we are drawing attention to the when we are drawing attention to the when we are drawing attention to the line between us and them and not drawing line between us and them and not drawing line between us and them and not drawing attention to the attention to the attention to the king we're doing it wrong right so king we're doing it wrong right so king we're doing it wrong right so whenever we're drawing those battle whenever we're drawing those battle whenever we're drawing those battle lines you know the battlefield like we lines you know the battlefield like we lines you know the battlefield like we were talking about we are actively were talking about we are actively were talking about we are actively working in such a way that are defending working in such a way that are defending working in such a way that are defending us but also potentially putting barriers us but also potentially putting barriers us but also potentially putting barriers in front of someone that could be in front of someone that could be in front of someone that could be meeting Jesus and is not my name is Bart meeting Jesus and is not my name is Bart meeting Jesus and is not my name is Bart Blair and you're listening to season 4 Blair and you're listening to season 4 Blair and you're listening to season 4 episode 15 of the missional marketing episode 15 of the missional marketing episode 15 of the missional marketing podcast this is the 139th episode of our podcast this is the 139th episode of our podcast this is the 139th episode of our show which we produce to help churches show which we produce to help churches show which we produce to help churches grow by leveraging digital marketing and grow by leveraging digital marketing and grow by leveraging digital marketing and effective Communications if you happen effective Communications if you happen effective Communications if you happen to be new to the podcast you haven't to be new to the podcast you haven't to be new to the podcast you haven't ever listened before make sure that you ever listened before make sure that you ever listened before make sure that you subscribe wherever you listen to your subscribe wherever you listen to your subscribe wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts so that you don't miss favorite podcasts so that you don't miss favorite podcasts so that you don't miss future episodes we've got some good ones future episodes we've got some good ones future episodes we've got some good ones coming up here in the next few weeks and coming up here in the next few weeks and coming up here in the next few weeks and if you're happen to be watching on our if you're happen to be watching on our if you're happen to be watching on our YouTube channel make sure that you both YouTube channel make sure that you both YouTube channel make sure that you both subscribe and ring the bell so that you subscribe and ring the bell so that you subscribe and ring the bell so that you get notified both about podcast episodes get notified both about podcast episodes get notified both about podcast episodes that we post on the channel but also that we post on the channel but also that we post on the channel but also other content that we post from time to other content that we post from time to other content that we post from time to time that you might be helpful if you're time that you might be helpful if you're time that you might be helpful if you're responsible for your Church's marketing responsible for your Church's marketing responsible for your Church's marketing and Communications efforts um today's and Communications efforts um today's and Communications efforts um today's podcast is an interview that I recently podcast is an interview that I recently podcast is an interview that I recently had the opportunity to do with a young had the opportunity to do with a young had the opportunity to do with a young man named Caleb Weidman I say young man man named Caleb Weidman I say young man man named Caleb Weidman I say young man because he's younger than I am Jason because he's younger than I am Jason because he's younger than I am Jason Hamrock and I are kind of the old guys Hamrock and I are kind of the old guys Hamrock and I are kind of the old guys uh in this space uh Caleb is a young uh in this space uh Caleb is a young uh in this space uh Caleb is a young leader who is also the founder of a leader who is also the founder of a leader who is also the founder of a company called Black bar Caleb spent a company called Black bar Caleb spent a company called Black bar Caleb spent a number of years serving as a number of years serving as a number of years serving as a communications director uh in a church

communications director uh in a church communications director uh in a church and he's going to share his story about and he's going to share his story about and he's going to share his story about how that came to be uh how his gifting how that came to be uh how his gifting how that came to be uh how his gifting enabled him to be a part of a of a large enabled him to be a part of a of a large enabled him to be a part of a of a large successful Church in the Detroit metro successful Church in the Detroit metro successful Church in the Detroit metro area did I say Detroit I meant Detroit I area did I say Detroit I meant Detroit I area did I say Detroit I meant Detroit I I know how to say Detroit it's not I know how to say Detroit it's not I know how to say Detroit it's not Detroit the Detroit metro area and uh Detroit the Detroit metro area and uh Detroit the Detroit metro area and uh he's also going to share how he and his he's also going to share how he and his he's also going to share how he and his his friends got this company black bar his friends got this company black bar his friends got this company black bar started and what their heart is as it started and what their heart is as it started and what their heart is as it relates to helping churches um use relates to helping churches um use relates to helping churches um use creative use digital use media uh to be creative use digital use media uh to be creative use digital use media uh to be more missional in the way that they're more missional in the way that they're more missional in the way that they're reaching their communities for Jesus uh reaching their communities for Jesus uh reaching their communities for Jesus uh Caleb is a young leader but he is a Caleb is a young leader but he is a Caleb is a young leader but he is a great thinker and I really appreciated great thinker and I really appreciated great thinker and I really appreciated this conversation that he and I got to this conversation that he and I got to this conversation that he and I got to have hopefully it will be a blessing to have hopefully it will be a blessing to have hopefully it will be a blessing to you thanks again for tuning in to the you thanks again for tuning in to the you thanks again for tuning in to the missional marketing podcast and here's missional marketing podcast and here's missional marketing podcast and here's my interview with Caleb Weidman from my interview with Caleb Weidman from my interview with Caleb Weidman from blackbar well Caleb I'm really excited blackbar well Caleb I'm really excited blackbar well Caleb I'm really excited to uh welcome you to the missional to uh welcome you to the missional to uh welcome you to the missional marketing podcast today and uh I'm marketing podcast today and uh I'm marketing podcast today and uh I'm expecting an awesome conversation expecting an awesome conversation expecting an awesome conversation because I think you're an awesome guy so because I think you're an awesome guy so because I think you're an awesome guy so welcome welcome to the show yeah thanks welcome welcome to the show yeah thanks welcome welcome to the show yeah thanks for having me I'm super excited to to for having me I'm super excited to to for having me I'm super excited to to talk everything missional marketing I talk everything missional marketing I talk everything missional marketing I definitely it's a big part of my life definitely it's a big part of my life definitely it's a big part of my life and a lot of things I think about and a lot of things I think about and a lot of things I think about regularly so any chance I get to talk regularly so any chance I get to talk regularly so any chance I get to talk about it I'm here for it yeah very cool about it I'm here for it yeah very cool about it I'm here for it yeah very cool you know I uh you are a person that you you know I uh you are a person that you you know I uh you are a person that you know because of the digital world I feel know because of the digital world I feel know because of the digital world I feel like I've known you for a while you have like I've known you for a while you have like I've known you for a while you have known me all for about I don't know 10 known me all for about I don't know 10 known me all for about I don't know 10 minutes uh but I've been I've been I've minutes uh but I've been I've been I've minutes uh but I've been I've been I've been uh following you and the content been uh following you and the content been uh following you and the content that you guys at blackb bar have been that you guys at blackb bar have been that you guys at blackb bar have been creating uh since I don't know at least

creating uh since I don't know at least creating uh since I don't know at least two or three years um and I've sort of two or three years um and I've sort of two or three years um and I've sort of from a distance uh seen what you guys from a distance uh seen what you guys from a distance uh seen what you guys are doing kind of expand and grow and are doing kind of expand and grow and are doing kind of expand and grow and I've I've learned from you and I'm I've I've learned from you and I'm I've I've learned from you and I'm confident that uh those that are uh confident that uh those that are uh confident that uh those that are uh listening to the podcast today are listening to the podcast today are listening to the podcast today are watching on our YouTube channel uh are watching on our YouTube channel uh are watching on our YouTube channel uh are going to have an opportunity to be going to have an opportunity to be going to have an opportunity to be blessed and and learn from you as well blessed and and learn from you as well blessed and and learn from you as well but um before we kind of get into sort but um before we kind of get into sort but um before we kind of get into sort of the the the meat of our conversation of the the the meat of our conversation of the the the meat of our conversation today why don't you tell us a little a today why don't you tell us a little a today why don't you tell us a little a little bit about your story and how you little bit about your story and how you little bit about your story and how you ended up uh where you are today doing ended up uh where you are today doing ended up uh where you are today doing what you're doing today sure yeah I uh what you're doing today sure yeah I uh what you're doing today sure yeah I uh my story is I got very lucky and then I my story is I got very lucky and then I my story is I got very lucky and then I figured out what I love doing early in figured out what I love doing early in figured out what I love doing early in life when I was about 11 years old I was life when I was about 11 years old I was life when I was about 11 years old I was very much a nerd like most of us kind of very much a nerd like most of us kind of very much a nerd like most of us kind of started out uh very into video games was started out uh very into video games was started out uh very into video games was very into Pokemon at the time uh and I very into Pokemon at the time uh and I very into Pokemon at the time uh and I had found out that if I open uh had found out that if I open uh had found out that if I open uh Microsoft Paint on my computer and I go Microsoft Paint on my computer and I go Microsoft Paint on my computer and I go pixel by pixel I could change the color pixel by pixel I could change the color pixel by pixel I could change the color of the Pokémon and change the shape and of the Pokémon and change the shape and of the Pokémon and change the shape and make my own and everything and my dad make my own and everything and my dad make my own and everything and my dad one day came home and saw me doing this one day came home and saw me doing this one day came home and saw me doing this uh and uh he had a very old I believe it uh and uh he had a very old I believe it uh and uh he had a very old I believe it was Photoshop 7 at the time a copy of it was Photoshop 7 at the time a copy of it was Photoshop 7 at the time a copy of it lying around it's like well if you're lying around it's like well if you're lying around it's like well if you're going to waste your time making fake going to waste your time making fake going to waste your time making fake Pokemon at least use a program that's Pokemon at least use a program that's Pokemon at least use a program that's going to be better at it uh and he going to be better at it uh and he going to be better at it uh and he installed uh photoshop on our family installed uh photoshop on our family installed uh photoshop on our family computer and I was instantly obsessed computer and I was instantly obsessed computer and I was instantly obsessed with making stuff uh and spent all of my with making stuff uh and spent all of my with making stuff uh and spent all of my free time creating as often as I can free time creating as often as I can free time creating as often as I can following you know tutorials Photoshop following you know tutorials Photoshop following you know tutorials Photoshop tutorials learning as much as I could tutorials learning as much as I could tutorials learning as much as I could eventually my youth pastor found out eventually my youth pastor found out eventually my youth pastor found out about the stuff I was making and uh

about the stuff I was making and uh about the stuff I was making and uh asked if I would make some sermon slides asked if I would make some sermon slides asked if I would make some sermon slides asked if I would make some like uh uh asked if I would make some like uh uh asked if I would make some like uh uh Retreat merchandise or like clothes for Retreat merchandise or like clothes for Retreat merchandise or like clothes for for all of the youth to wear and they for all of the youth to wear and they for all of the youth to wear and they all loved it um but the big kind of hit all loved it um but the big kind of hit all loved it um but the big kind of hit for me was uh when I was in high school for me was uh when I was in high school for me was uh when I was in high school the denomination that I'm a part of and the denomination that I'm a part of and the denomination that I'm a part of and still serve in is the Assemblies of God still serve in is the Assemblies of God still serve in is the Assemblies of God they have a uh they have a uh they have a uh a national Fine Arts Festival so it a national Fine Arts Festival so it a national Fine Arts Festival so it doesn't matter if you're big into doesn't matter if you're big into doesn't matter if you're big into singing and a worship team or if you're singing and a worship team or if you're singing and a worship team or if you're into a graphic design photography human into a graphic design photography human into a graphic design photography human video whatever it is you can come and video whatever it is you can come and video whatever it is you can come and you can sort of enter into this festival you can sort of enter into this festival you can sort of enter into this festival and um if you win there's scholarship and um if you win there's scholarship and um if you win there's scholarship money attached to and everything or money attached to and everything or money attached to and everything or whatever and the first year I entered I whatever and the first year I entered I whatever and the first year I entered I stumbled upon third place in the country stumbled upon third place in the country stumbled upon third place in the country and I was like oh maybe I should be and I was like oh maybe I should be and I was like oh maybe I should be doing this like professionally and then doing this like professionally and then doing this like professionally and then the next two years that I was uh in it I the next two years that I was uh in it I the next two years that I was uh in it I managed to uh go first in the country managed to uh go first in the country managed to uh go first in the country for graphic design both years uh and for graphic design both years uh and for graphic design both years uh and that sort of solidified for me the that sort of solidified for me the that sort of solidified for me the calling that I had of like realizing calling that I had of like realizing calling that I had of like realizing that these dumb little nerdy Gifts of that these dumb little nerdy Gifts of that these dumb little nerdy Gifts of you know learning colors and fonts and you know learning colors and fonts and you know learning colors and fonts and whatever at a very young age like that's whatever at a very young age like that's whatever at a very young age like that's that's a Ministry opportunity uh you that's a Ministry opportunity uh you that's a Ministry opportunity uh you don't just have to be good on a worship don't just have to be good on a worship don't just have to be good on a worship team or good at stacking chairs or good team or good at stacking chairs or good team or good at stacking chairs or good at leading a small groups those weird at leading a small groups those weird at leading a small groups those weird things as well can also preach uh it's things as well can also preach uh it's things as well can also preach uh it's just a matter of finding the right just a matter of finding the right just a matter of finding the right opportunities and thank the Lord I had opportunities and thank the Lord I had opportunities and thank the Lord I had youth Pastors in my life and obviously youth Pastors in my life and obviously youth Pastors in my life and obviously my parents and other opportunities to my parents and other opportunities to my parents and other opportunities to discover that early um and I think

discover that early um and I think discover that early um and I think that's really set me up to uh explore that's really set me up to uh explore that's really set me up to uh explore all the different areas of media now and all the different areas of media now and all the different areas of media now and seeing how those can be used as sort of seeing how those can be used as sort of seeing how those can be used as sort of ministry tools whenever possible okay so ministry tools whenever possible okay so ministry tools whenever possible okay so where did you go from being a church where did you go from being a church where did you go from being a church graphic design Champion that's the best graphic design Champion that's the best graphic design Champion that's the best way I know how to put it way I know how to put it way I know how to put it right how how how did you transition right how how how did you transition right how how how did you transition from doing this sort of as a hobby as a from doing this sort of as a hobby as a from doing this sort of as a hobby as a high school student uh to a vocation in high school student uh to a vocation in high school student uh to a vocation in in Ministry what what did that what did in Ministry what what did that what did in Ministry what what did that what did that stage of the journey look like for that stage of the journey look like for that stage of the journey look like for you yeah so uh After High School I went you yeah so uh After High School I went you yeah so uh After High School I went to college uh went to University of to college uh went to University of to college uh went to University of Valley Forge uh and they had a great Valley Forge uh and they had a great Valley Forge uh and they had a great digital media program it was a a digital media program it was a a digital media program it was a a Christian College as well assembl of God Christian College as well assembl of God Christian College as well assembl of God College as well and uh met a lot of College as well and uh met a lot of College as well and uh met a lot of great friends there two of which are great friends there two of which are great friends there two of which are Nick Mayo and Zack Snyder who are uh Nick Mayo and Zack Snyder who are uh Nick Mayo and Zack Snyder who are uh sort of co-owners and my co-hosts on the sort of co-owners and my co-hosts on the sort of co-owners and my co-hosts on the black bar podcast everything there uh black bar podcast everything there uh black bar podcast everything there uh and uh the three of us were actually a and uh the three of us were actually a and uh the three of us were actually a part of ministry and I won't talk about part of ministry and I won't talk about part of ministry and I won't talk about the specifics of the ministry but it was the specifics of the ministry but it was the specifics of the ministry but it was a it was an Arts Ministry uh and for the a it was an Arts Ministry uh and for the a it was an Arts Ministry uh and for the most part it was a music Ministry that most part it was a music Ministry that most part it was a music Ministry that all of these different uh people from all of these different uh people from all of these different uh people from all these different backgrounds some had all these different backgrounds some had all these different backgrounds some had uh like heavy metal backgrounds some had uh like heavy metal backgrounds some had uh like heavy metal backgrounds some had like more typical worship CCM like more typical worship CCM like more typical worship CCM backgrounds somewhere more into like backgrounds somewhere more into like backgrounds somewhere more into like hipop and Latin music and we're all hipop and Latin music and we're all hipop and Latin music and we're all going to come together and just make going to come together and just make going to come together and just make awesome worshipful experiences and play awesome worshipful experiences and play awesome worshipful experiences and play at churches and whatnot and we were at churches and whatnot and we were at churches and whatnot and we were doing that for a number of years and it doing that for a number of years and it doing that for a number of years and it was really great and at one point we had

was really great and at one point we had was really great and at one point we had this this question this thought of like this this question this thought of like this this question this thought of like could the media side of what we do with could the media side of what we do with could the media side of what we do with Nick Zack and I could that also enter Nick Zack and I could that also enter Nick Zack and I could that also enter into the conversation from a Ministry into the conversation from a Ministry into the conversation from a Ministry perspective we brought it to the leader perspective we brought it to the leader perspective we brought it to the leader at the time and what we were told at the time and what we were told at the time and what we were told basically verbatim is that those gifts basically verbatim is that those gifts basically verbatim is that those gifts were for advertis in Ministry they were for advertis in Ministry they were for advertis in Ministry they weren't for ministering themselves right weren't for ministering themselves right weren't for ministering themselves right those are the graphic design or those are the graphic design or those are the graphic design or photography or video is how you tell photography or video is how you tell photography or video is how you tell people where to go to be ministered not people where to go to be ministered not people where to go to be ministered not a tool for Ministry and we were young a tool for Ministry and we were young a tool for Ministry and we were young and dumb and angry at the time uh but we and dumb and angry at the time uh but we and dumb and angry at the time uh but we knew that wasn't right right we knew knew that wasn't right right we knew knew that wasn't right right we knew that answer wasn't correct it had to be that answer wasn't correct it had to be that answer wasn't correct it had to be possible to have a Ministry from media possible to have a Ministry from media possible to have a Ministry from media itself that these tools themselves could itself that these tools themselves could itself that these tools themselves could serve as that and became like an serve as that and became like an serve as that and became like an obsessive quest for the next like almost obsessive quest for the next like almost obsessive quest for the next like almost decade of like what does a like a media decade of like what does a like a media decade of like what does a like a media Ministry look like where we're actually Ministry look like where we're actually Ministry look like where we're actually using these digital tools to minister to using these digital tools to minister to using these digital tools to minister to people and I think there's a hundred people and I think there's a hundred people and I think there's a hundred answers to that questions of what that answers to that questions of what that answers to that questions of what that could look like and I think this podcast could look like and I think this podcast could look like and I think this podcast is very much an answer to that question is very much an answer to that question is very much an answer to that question um uh but for us that first answer was a um uh but for us that first answer was a um uh but for us that first answer was a a a media Ministry is a Ministry for a a media Ministry is a Ministry for a a media Ministry is a Ministry for Church media people uh I don't know many Church media people uh I don't know many Church media people uh I don't know many Church media people that haven't been Church media people that haven't been Church media people that haven't been completely burnt out and wrecked over completely burnt out and wrecked over completely burnt out and wrecked over the course of doing what we do either if the course of doing what we do either if the course of doing what we do either if that's from a volunteer perspective or that's from a volunteer perspective or that's from a volunteer perspective or even if that's like a full-time even if that's like a full-time even if that's like a full-time vocational uh job that sort of thing um

vocational uh job that sort of thing um vocational uh job that sort of thing um it has become and there's probably a it has become and there's probably a it has become and there's probably a hundred different factors for it a a hundred different factors for it a a hundred different factors for it a a spiritually dangerous position to be in spiritually dangerous position to be in spiritually dangerous position to be in um and it is a sector of ministry that I um and it is a sector of ministry that I um and it is a sector of ministry that I don't think enough pastors and ministers don't think enough pastors and ministers don't think enough pastors and ministers are are realizing how dangerous it can are are realizing how dangerous it can are are realizing how dangerous it can be for the people involved in that and be for the people involved in that and be for the people involved in that and we really wanted to step alongside and we really wanted to step alongside and we really wanted to step alongside and say you're not alone those sermon sites say you're not alone those sermon sites say you're not alone those sermon sites that you're getting at you know 11:00 that you're getting at you know 11:00 that you're getting at you know 11:00 p.m. on Saturday that are driving you p.m. on Saturday that are driving you p.m. on Saturday that are driving you crazy uh we've been there before let us crazy uh we've been there before let us crazy uh we've been there before let us help you make your job easier let us help you make your job easier let us help you make your job easier let us help SE what is possible with this to help SE what is possible with this to help SE what is possible with this to help prevent that burnout and hopefully help prevent that burnout and hopefully help prevent that burnout and hopefully sort of raise the level of what is sort of raise the level of what is sort of raise the level of what is possible in uh media Ministry and sort possible in uh media Ministry and sort possible in uh media Ministry and sort of fuel that passion and remind people of fuel that passion and remind people of fuel that passion and remind people what it's all about because it's easy what it's all about because it's easy what it's all about because it's easy sitting behind those computers and sitting behind those computers and sitting behind those computers and behind the cameras or whatever to detach behind the cameras or whatever to detach behind the cameras or whatever to detach yourself from the ministry when we yourself from the ministry when we yourself from the ministry when we realize like this is a part of the realize like this is a part of the realize like this is a part of the ministry it's just as important as other ministry it's just as important as other ministry it's just as important as other other piece every other piece uh so that other piece every other piece uh so that other piece every other piece uh so that that was really sort of the Genesis of that was really sort of the Genesis of that was really sort of the Genesis of what black bar became uh and it's still what black bar became uh and it's still what black bar became uh and it's still something that's very very very close to something that's very very very close to something that's very very very close to all of us now as we continue it so you all of us now as we continue it so you all of us now as we continue it so you know you guys are champions for people know you guys are champions for people know you guys are champions for people who serve in churches in the you know who serve in churches in the you know who serve in churches in the you know visual media Arts Communications uh visual media Arts Communications uh visual media Arts Communications uh graphic design video production you name graphic design video production you name graphic design video production you name it um and I appreciate that about you it um and I appreciate that about you it um and I appreciate that about you you guys um but I think that I need you you guys um but I think that I need you you guys um but I think that I need you to answer this question tell us exactly

to answer this question tell us exactly to answer this question tell us exactly what black bar does you've used the name what black bar does you've used the name what black bar does you've used the name several times you have Partners several times you have Partners several times you have Partners extrapolate on that a little bit what is extrapolate on that a little bit what is extrapolate on that a little bit what is black bar let's actually start with this black bar let's actually start with this black bar let's actually start with this what is a black bar like what what why what is a black bar like what what why what is a black bar like what what why why the name what is black bar and then why the name what is black bar and then why the name what is black bar and then what is black bar so unpack that a what is black bar so unpack that a what is black bar so unpack that a little bit yeah yeah so the the before little bit yeah yeah so the the before little bit yeah yeah so the the before black bar started and even continuing black bar started and even continuing black bar started and even continuing today I watched way too much YouTube and today I watched way too much YouTube and today I watched way too much YouTube and Just content in general whenever I'm Just content in general whenever I'm Just content in general whenever I'm working I always have you know a screen working I always have you know a screen working I always have you know a screen on on my side Monitor and I was watching on on my side Monitor and I was watching on on my side Monitor and I was watching people outside of the ministry world uh people outside of the ministry world uh people outside of the ministry world uh people like Linus Tech tips who's a big people like Linus Tech tips who's a big people like Linus Tech tips who's a big Tech YouTuber and Jay's tuens and a Tech YouTuber and Jay's tuens and a Tech YouTuber and Jay's tuens and a hundred other ones that are just making hundred other ones that are just making hundred other ones that are just making content regularly and making it freely content regularly and making it freely content regularly and making it freely available and accessible to anybody available and accessible to anybody available and accessible to anybody who's interested in technology and wants who's interested in technology and wants who's interested in technology and wants to get better at it and then I looked at to get better at it and then I looked at to get better at it and then I looked at the ministry World serving as uh at the the ministry World serving as uh at the the ministry World serving as uh at the time a uh communications director as a time a uh communications director as a time a uh communications director as a church and nearly every single uh sort church and nearly every single uh sort church and nearly every single uh sort of Education option in that space was a of Education option in that space was a of Education option in that space was a paid service right so if you want to get paid service right so if you want to get paid service right so if you want to get good at church graphic design if you good at church graphic design if you good at church graphic design if you want to get church church communication want to get church church communication want to get church church communication video production whatever here's our you video production whatever here's our you video production whatever here's our you know $300 class like we'll give you some know $300 class like we'll give you some know $300 class like we'll give you some some of the good stuff like right but if some of the good stuff like right but if some of the good stuff like right but if you want the really good if you want to you want the really good if you want to you want the really good if you want to get really awesome uh it's all behind a get really awesome uh it's all behind a get really awesome uh it's all behind a pap well and especially with most pap well and especially with most pap well and especially with most churches being 100 or less 100 churches being 100 or less 100 churches being 100 or less 100 congregants or less that throws it way congregants or less that throws it way congregants or less that throws it way outside of the range of what is possible outside of the range of what is possible outside of the range of what is possible most of the time so uh the idea of the most of the time so uh the idea of the most of the time so uh the idea of the name of blackb bar specifically was the

name of blackb bar specifically was the name of blackb bar specifically was the idea of you know when you have like the idea of you know when you have like the idea of you know when you have like the government government government releases uh uh sort of a report on uh releases uh uh sort of a report on uh releases uh uh sort of a report on uh redacted information that had been redacted information that had been redacted information that had been buried for 20 years and all the really buried for 20 years and all the really buried for 20 years and all the really good stuff they black out right and like good stuff they black out right and like good stuff they black out right and like that's not the stuff they're going to that's not the stuff they're going to that's not the stuff they're going to let you see all right we're the black let you see all right we're the black let you see all right we're the black bar we're going to be ripping out all bar we're going to be ripping out all bar we're going to be ripping out all the stuff that was hidden from you and the stuff that was hidden from you and the stuff that was hidden from you and sort of revealing the actual secrets of sort of revealing the actual secrets of sort of revealing the actual secrets of how to do this well that was sort of the how to do this well that was sort of the how to do this well that was sort of the the Genesis behind the name I did not the Genesis behind the name I did not the Genesis behind the name I did not see I did not see that coming at all see I did not see that coming at all see I did not see that coming at all like that wasn't that wasn't what I was like that wasn't that wasn't what I was like that wasn't that wasn't what I was expecting at all okay yeah uh so the the expecting at all okay yeah uh so the the expecting at all okay yeah uh so the the and people have their own theories of and people have their own theories of and people have their own theories of what it is people sometimes they get the what it is people sometimes they get the what it is people sometimes they get the black bars the top of the video or the black bars the top of the video or the black bars the top of the video or the bottom like a letter box or we'll let bottom like a letter box or we'll let bottom like a letter box or we'll let them believe whatever they want if it's them believe whatever they want if it's them believe whatever they want if it's cooler than what we came up with I'll cooler than what we came up with I'll cooler than what we came up with I'll claim it eventually uh but the the claim it eventually uh but the the claim it eventually uh but the the blackb bar sort of serves as two pieces blackb bar sort of serves as two pieces blackb bar sort of serves as two pieces we have the ministry side of blackb bar we have the ministry side of blackb bar we have the ministry side of blackb bar which we do uh sort of a weekly video which we do uh sort of a weekly video which we do uh sort of a weekly video podcast we've created a lot of podcast we've created a lot of podcast we've created a lot of educational material uh on YouTube and educational material uh on YouTube and educational material uh on YouTube and on uh various other like audio like on uh various other like audio like on uh various other like audio like Spotify and podcasting stuff just trying Spotify and podcasting stuff just trying Spotify and podcasting stuff just trying to make it uh get as many resources as to make it uh get as many resources as to make it uh get as many resources as we can as freely available as we can uh we can as freely available as we can uh we can as freely available as we can uh to as many people in church ministry as to as many people in church ministry as to as many people in church ministry as we can um at least in the in the digital we can um at least in the in the digital we can um at least in the in the digital space and then on the other half uh space and then on the other half uh space and then on the other half uh because by definition that doesn't make because by definition that doesn't make because by definition that doesn't make money and we would like to do this money and we would like to do this money and we would like to do this full-time we also have a sort of a media full-time we also have a sort of a media full-time we also have a sort of a media production house uh so an agency where production house uh so an agency where production house uh so an agency where people can come to us either help them people can come to us either help them people can come to us either help them design their logos or help them set set design their logos or help them set set design their logos or help them set set up uh a like a live streaming setup or

up uh a like a live streaming setup or up uh a like a live streaming setup or video or help them with church video or help them with church video or help them with church communication for the most part if there communication for the most part if there communication for the most part if there are pixels involved at one step of the are pixels involved at one step of the are pixels involved at one step of the process we probably have a way to help process we probably have a way to help process we probably have a way to help you uh and uh it's very much our heart you uh and uh it's very much our heart you uh and uh it's very much our heart to help churches either when it comes to to help churches either when it comes to to help churches either when it comes to the training side of that Ministry stuff the training side of that Ministry stuff the training side of that Ministry stuff that we do uh or helping them with that we do uh or helping them with that we do uh or helping them with actually creating the content that they actually creating the content that they actually creating the content that they need to uh Proclaim Jesus to the people need to uh Proclaim Jesus to the people need to uh Proclaim Jesus to the people around them so we're sort of two Hales around them so we're sort of two Hales around them so we're sort of two Hales in that yeah okay so you before we in that yeah okay so you before we in that yeah okay so you before we started recording you and I were talking started recording you and I were talking started recording you and I were talking a little bit about your specific skill a little bit about your specific skill a little bit about your specific skill set and background and and I think you set and background and and I think you set and background and and I think you know a lot of us uh learn just through know a lot of us uh learn just through know a lot of us uh learn just through Ministry to do a lot of different things Ministry to do a lot of different things Ministry to do a lot of different things because we wear many hats especially in because we wear many hats especially in because we wear many hats especially in the the comms director role your the the comms director role your the the comms director role your background primarily as you shared was background primarily as you shared was background primarily as you shared was sort of in graphic design the visual sort of in graphic design the visual sort of in graphic design the visual media side of things you have two other media side of things you have two other media side of things you have two other partners that work with you in black bar partners that work with you in black bar partners that work with you in black bar um who are they and and and what what um who are they and and and what what um who are they and and and what what are sort of their levels of expertise are sort of their levels of expertise are sort of their levels of expertise what what are what are their what are what what are what are their what are what what are what are their what are their giftings yeah uh so both Nick and their giftings yeah uh so both Nick and their giftings yeah uh so both Nick and Zach uh their primary backgrounds are in Zach uh their primary backgrounds are in Zach uh their primary backgrounds are in the world of the world's video in the world of the world's video in the world of the world's video in general uh which of course that's not general uh which of course that's not general uh which of course that's not just the camera that's also the audio just the camera that's also the audio just the camera that's also the audio and animation and all that kind of stuff and animation and all that kind of stuff and animation and all that kind of stuff uh and then live production specifically uh and then live production specifically uh and then live production specifically I have very little live production I have very little live production I have very little live production experience which is sort of comical experience which is sort of comical experience which is sort of comical because uh black bar got it it start in because uh black bar got it it start in because uh black bar got it it start in January of 2020 and in March of 2020 January of 2020 and in March of 2020 January of 2020 and in March of 2020 live production experience became a very live production experience became a very live production experience became a very important part of what we do and I all important part of what we do and I all important part of what we do and I all of a sudden I was teaching people that I of a sudden I was teaching people that I of a sudden I was teaching people that I was learning hurridly to try to like get

was learning hurridly to try to like get was learning hurridly to try to like get out the door uh uh but both of them have out the door uh uh but both of them have out the door uh uh but both of them have a lot of experience in video a lot of experience in video a lot of experience in video specifically I've been working them specifically I've been working them specifically I've been working them since College they've been doing it far since College they've been doing it far since College they've been doing it far before College um uh usually I'm the one before College um uh usually I'm the one before College um uh usually I'm the one sort of animating the titles or helping sort of animating the titles or helping sort of animating the titles or helping coming up with the script or whatever coming up with the script or whatever coming up with the script or whatever and they're the one sort of like and they're the one sort of like and they're the one sort of like executing out that video and and making executing out that video and and making executing out that video and and making it sing and making it awesome uh and it sing and making it awesome uh and it sing and making it awesome uh and then in the live production World both then in the live production World both then in the live production World both of them have experienced tons of of them have experienced tons of of them have experienced tons of experience either on camera but also experience either on camera but also experience either on camera but also from a director position from producer from a director position from producer from a director position from producer standpoint they're all we comp we standpoint they're all we comp we standpoint they're all we comp we complement each other extremely well in complement each other extremely well in complement each other extremely well in what we know and and are able to cover what we know and and are able to cover what we know and and are able to cover sort of a wider range of everything sort of a wider range of everything sort of a wider range of everything Church media professionals usually need Church media professionals usually need Church media professionals usually need to touch yeah you you almost had a to touch yeah you you almost had a to touch yeah you you almost had a Freudian slip there in saying that we Freudian slip there in saying that we Freudian slip there in saying that we complic at each other because we're complic at each other because we're complic at each other because we're three friends who've been working three friends who've been working three friends who've been working together for a really long time we together for a really long time we together for a really long time we compliment each other and we complicate compliment each other and we complicate compliment each other and we complicate each other yeah I know how that goes each other yeah I know how that goes each other yeah I know how that goes that's that's that's that's yeah so you know Caleb you've sat that's yeah so you know Caleb you've sat that's yeah so you know Caleb you've sat in the role of church communications in the role of church communications in the role of church communications director um and so you know most of the director um and so you know most of the director um and so you know most of the people that listen to this podcast or people that listen to this podcast or people that listen to this podcast or watching online are are people who are watching online are are people who are watching online are are people who are currently in that role whether they're a currently in that role whether they're a currently in that role whether they're a volunteer or they're on staff um in your volunteer or they're on staff um in your volunteer or they're on staff um in your experience as a as a church commom experience as a as a church commom experience as a as a church commom director you know what are what are some director you know what are what are some director you know what are what are some of the things that you experienc that um of the things that you experienc that um of the things that you experienc that um that really energized you and excited that really energized you and excited that really energized you and excited you about what you were doing what was you about what you were doing what was you about what you were doing what was the stuff that sort of fueled you as a the stuff that sort of fueled you as a the stuff that sort of fueled you as a as a comms director and and contrast as a comms director and and contrast as a comms director and and contrast that with things that sort of sucked the that with things that sort of sucked the that with things that sort of sucked the life out of you what what were some of life out of you what what were some of life out of you what what were some of the things that were sort of a struggle the things that were sort of a struggle the things that were sort of a struggle for you that's a that's a great question

for you that's a that's a great question for you that's a that's a great question um the the uh so I I functionally served um the the uh so I I functionally served um the the uh so I I functionally served as a communications director the name of as a communications director the name of as a communications director the name of the um uh department at the time was the the um uh department at the time was the the um uh department at the time was the mult multimedia and marketing department mult multimedia and marketing department mult multimedia and marketing department uh which is effectively Communications uh which is effectively Communications uh which is effectively Communications but I remember standing in that rule and but I remember standing in that rule and but I remember standing in that rule and previous to that point having mostly previous to that point having mostly previous to that point having mostly just media multimedia experience and now just media multimedia experience and now just media multimedia experience and now I'm also the marketing director and I'm also the marketing director and I'm also the marketing director and realizing how much I have to learn realizing how much I have to learn realizing how much I have to learn because it's not just my job was never because it's not just my job was never because it's not just my job was never just make a good slide it was get people just make a good slide it was get people just make a good slide it was get people to the event and the prettiest slide in to the event and the prettiest slide in to the event and the prettiest slide in the world that doesn't get anybody to the world that doesn't get anybody to the world that doesn't get anybody to the event is still a failure of a slide the event is still a failure of a slide the event is still a failure of a slide right so that transition of mindset was right so that transition of mindset was right so that transition of mindset was important to me uh but in terms of important to me uh but in terms of important to me uh but in terms of things that were like lifegiving and things that were like lifegiving and things that were like lifegiving and exciting for me uh something that I've exciting for me uh something that I've exciting for me uh something that I've always been incredibly careful about is always been incredibly careful about is always been incredibly careful about is uh protecting my uh protecting my uh protecting my inspiration uh so I believe that inspiration uh so I believe that inspiration uh so I believe that generally speaking there's no such thing generally speaking there's no such thing generally speaking there's no such thing as an original idea that every idea that as an original idea that every idea that as an original idea that every idea that I've ever had or you've ever had has I've ever had or you've ever had has I've ever had or you've ever had has been borrowed and tweaked and combined been borrowed and tweaked and combined been borrowed and tweaked and combined from something else we've seen right and from something else we've seen right and from something else we've seen right and uh one of the ways where we can run into uh one of the ways where we can run into uh one of the ways where we can run into issues of being being really derivative issues of being being really derivative issues of being being really derivative or being really copypaste is when we or being really copypaste is when we or being really copypaste is when we continue to pull from the same pool that continue to pull from the same pool that continue to pull from the same pool that we're pouring into so I am very careful we're pouring into so I am very careful we're pouring into so I am very careful about especially when I was working in about especially when I was working in about especially when I was working in in the role at the church I was at not in the role at the church I was at not in the role at the church I was at not looking at any of the other churches of looking at any of the other churches of looking at any of the other churches of similar size uh what they were doing for

similar size uh what they were doing for similar size uh what they were doing for Easter or what they were doing for Easter or what they were doing for Easter or what they were doing for Christmas because I didn't just want to Christmas because I didn't just want to Christmas because I didn't just want to be the next Hillsong with a smaller be the next Hillsong with a smaller be the next Hillsong with a smaller budget right or the next bethl with not budget right or the next bethl with not budget right or the next bethl with not as many resources I wanted to be what at as many resources I wanted to be what at as many resources I wanted to be what at the time Grand Rapids First was supposed the time Grand Rapids First was supposed the time Grand Rapids First was supposed to be for the Grand Rapids area uh so to be for the Grand Rapids area uh so to be for the Grand Rapids area uh so the things that that really excited me the things that that really excited me the things that that really excited me is when we were able to pull off like is when we were able to pull off like is when we were able to pull off like things that weren't just hey have you things that weren't just hey have you things that weren't just hey have you seen whatever this church has done and seen whatever this church has done and seen whatever this church has done and it's been really successful or whatever it's been really successful or whatever it's been really successful or whatever it was when we were able to come up with it was when we were able to come up with it was when we were able to come up with a custom solution for our congregation a custom solution for our congregation a custom solution for our congregation or for our community that really met the or for our community that really met the or for our community that really met the needs of that group and then seeing needs of that group and then seeing needs of that group and then seeing other churches sort of take inspiration other churches sort of take inspiration other churches sort of take inspiration from it and move on from there that was from it and move on from there that was from it and move on from there that was always super like Life Giving To Me of always super like Life Giving To Me of always super like Life Giving To Me of like solving my own problems and not like solving my own problems and not like solving my own problems and not trying to borrow someone else's trying to borrow someone else's trying to borrow someone else's Solutions and seeing if it would kind of Solutions and seeing if it would kind of Solutions and seeing if it would kind of fit uh I think that for the most part fit uh I think that for the most part fit uh I think that for the most part that's sort of an area that churches that's sort of an area that churches that's sort of an area that churches tend to struggle in because they just tend to struggle in because they just tend to struggle in because they just want to look at another church that's want to look at another church that's want to look at another church that's doing it more successfully and Grand doing it more successfully and Grand doing it more successfully and Grand Rapids is not reading and Grand Rapids Rapids is not reading and Grand Rapids Rapids is not reading and Grand Rapids is not New York City Grand Rapids has is not New York City Grand Rapids has is not New York City Grand Rapids has Grand Rapids challenges and Grand Rapids Grand Rapids challenges and Grand Rapids Grand Rapids challenges and Grand Rapids goals and that requires custom thinking goals and that requires custom thinking goals and that requires custom thinking and solutions and and sort of problem and solutions and and sort of problem and solutions and and sort of problem solving and that was always super fun um solving and that was always super fun um solving and that was always super fun um when it came to the things that were when it came to the things that were when it came to the things that were draining on me um uh I think you know draining on me um uh I think you know draining on me um uh I think you know the church that I worked at was a large the church that I worked at was a large the church that I worked at was a large Church um the uh relatively speaking Church um the uh relatively speaking Church um the uh relatively speaking preco numbers is OB is sort of most of

preco numbers is OB is sort of most of preco numbers is OB is sort of most of the time that I served there we were the time that I served there we were the time that I served there we were rocking about 4,000 to 4500 on a Sunday rocking about 4,000 to 4500 on a Sunday rocking about 4,000 to 4500 on a Sunday uh that also mean that it has a uh that also mean that it has a uh that also mean that it has a relatively large staff and that also relatively large staff and that also relatively large staff and that also means that everything you make has like means that everything you make has like means that everything you make has like seven or eight people that need to sign seven or eight people that need to sign seven or eight people that need to sign off on it uh and that wasn't always the off on it uh and that wasn't always the off on it uh and that wasn't always the case and sometimes you can get directly case and sometimes you can get directly case and sometimes you can get directly up to the boss and he signs on it up to the boss and he signs on it up to the boss and he signs on it doesn't matter what anybody else thinks doesn't matter what anybody else thinks doesn't matter what anybody else thinks at that point um but some of the red at that point um but some of the red at that point um but some of the red tape involved at larger churches that tape involved at larger churches that tape involved at larger churches that doesn't exist as much in the smaller doesn't exist as much in the smaller doesn't exist as much in the smaller churches and of course Grass Is Always churches and of course Grass Is Always churches and of course Grass Is Always Greener right there's going to be pros Greener right there's going to be pros Greener right there's going to be pros and cons to every scenario uh but that and cons to every scenario uh but that and cons to every scenario uh but that can always be uh uh deflating especially can always be uh uh deflating especially can always be uh uh deflating especially when there wasn't communication ahead of when there wasn't communication ahead of when there wasn't communication ahead of time to understand uh sort of like make time to understand uh sort of like make time to understand uh sort of like make sure that everybody was on the same page sure that everybody was on the same page sure that everybody was on the same page like everybody had anidea different idea like everybody had anidea different idea like everybody had anidea different idea of what goals we were aiming for I aimed of what goals we were aiming for I aimed of what goals we were aiming for I aimed for something everybody else had a for something everybody else had a for something everybody else had a different picture and now that was all different picture and now that was all different picture and now that was all just time that was wasted uh so it was just time that was wasted uh so it was just time that was wasted uh so it was something that we worked on quite a bit something that we worked on quite a bit something that we worked on quite a bit in some of the later years that I was in some of the later years that I was in some of the later years that I was there making sure before anybody touched there making sure before anybody touched there making sure before anybody touched anything uh before a single Pixel was anything uh before a single Pixel was anything uh before a single Pixel was put in place that we had meetings to put in place that we had meetings to put in place that we had meetings to make sure we were all on the same page make sure we were all on the same page make sure we were all on the same page cuz I I do not want to get strangled by cuz I I do not want to get strangled by cuz I I do not want to get strangled by red tape 80% of the way through the red tape 80% of the way through the red tape 80% of the way through the process when we realize we were off BAS process when we realize we were off BAS process when we realize we were off BAS B from the goal uh so that sort of B from the goal uh so that sort of B from the goal uh so that sort of interdepartmental communication became a interdepartmental communication became a interdepartmental communication became a big uh priority for me and my team yeah big uh priority for me and my team yeah big uh priority for me and my team yeah well thanks for sharing that I think you well thanks for sharing that I think you well thanks for sharing that I think you you both addressed a common pain common you both addressed a common pain common you both addressed a common pain common pain point that a lot of comm's pain point that a lot of comm's pain point that a lot of comm's directors would certainly experience but directors would certainly experience but directors would certainly experience but you also you know hinted a little bit at you also you know hinted a little bit at you also you know hinted a little bit at some of your solution to that and it's some of your solution to that and it's some of your solution to that and it's always communication right it's ironic

always communication right it's ironic always communication right it's ironic that we're in the business of that we're in the business of that we're in the business of communicating uh the church really at communicating uh the church really at communicating uh the church really at the end of the day one of our primary the end of the day one of our primary the end of the day one of our primary function function function is to communicate to communicate the is to communicate to communicate the is to communicate to communicate the gospel and yet internally we can often gospel and yet internally we can often gospel and yet internally we can often struggle with having clear and effective struggle with having clear and effective struggle with having clear and effective communication internally so um sometimes communication internally so um sometimes communication internally so um sometimes it's cultural sometimes it's systematic it's cultural sometimes it's systematic it's cultural sometimes it's systematic and and and structure um but you know and and and structure um but you know and and and structure um but you know sometimes it's just people don't ask the sometimes it's just people don't ask the sometimes it's just people don't ask the right questions uh you know I heard I right questions uh you know I heard I right questions uh you know I heard I heard I heard Pastor Ed Young from heard I heard Pastor Ed Young from heard I heard Pastor Ed Young from Fellowship Church many many years ago Fellowship Church many many years ago Fellowship Church many many years ago when I was still a worship Pastor when I was still a worship Pastor when I was still a worship Pastor creative arts director in the church creative arts director in the church creative arts director in the church that I was in you know talked about the that I was in you know talked about the that I was in you know talked about the power of asking questions and I learned power of asking questions and I learned power of asking questions and I learned early on in my Ministry life that early on in my Ministry life that early on in my Ministry life that especially as a team member of a group especially as a team member of a group especially as a team member of a group of people that were trying to accomplish of people that were trying to accomplish of people that were trying to accomplish something if I wasn't in charge the best something if I wasn't in charge the best something if I wasn't in charge the best thing that I could do to be a part of thing that I could do to be a part of thing that I could do to be a part of the solution was to ask a million the solution was to ask a million the solution was to ask a million questions ask a million questions so questions ask a million questions so questions ask a million questions so that those that are really in charge and that those that are really in charge and that those that are really in charge and who are giving the who are giving the who are giving the direction have had the opportunity to direction have had the opportunity to direction have had the opportunity to really fully flesh out what their really fully flesh out what their really fully flesh out what their thoughts their Vision their direction is thoughts their Vision their direction is thoughts their Vision their direction is going to be so if you're sitting in a in going to be so if you're sitting in a in going to be so if you're sitting in a in a room creatives or Executives and a room creatives or Executives and a room creatives or Executives and you're the creative in the room um ask a you're the creative in the room um ask a you're the creative in the room um ask a million questions write down the answers million questions write down the answers million questions write down the answers and use that to synthesize what you're and use that to synthesize what you're and use that to synthesize what you're doing um Caleb I'm gonna pivot our doing um Caleb I'm gonna pivot our doing um Caleb I'm gonna pivot our conversation a little bit um yeah I had conversation a little bit um yeah I had conversation a little bit um yeah I had something specific that I wanted to to something specific that I wanted to to something specific that I wanted to to chat with you about today um you know as chat with you about today um you know as chat with you about today um you know as a as a comms director it's pretty much a as a comms director it's pretty much a as a comms director it's pretty much impossible to ignore the world of social impossible to ignore the world of social impossible to ignore the world of social media it's just a big part of what media it's just a big part of what media it's just a big part of what churches do people who listen to the

churches do people who listen to the churches do people who listen to the missional marketing podcast and those missional marketing podcast and those missional marketing podcast and those churches that I have the privilege of churches that I have the privilege of churches that I have the privilege of coaching will know that um I I'm not a coaching will know that um I I'm not a coaching will know that um I I'm not a huge proponent for uh social media as a huge proponent for uh social media as a huge proponent for uh social media as a Communications tool I personally I I'll Communications tool I personally I I'll Communications tool I personally I I'll I'll just share this with you you don't I'll just share this with you you don't I'll just share this with you you don't know this about me but maybe some of the know this about me but maybe some of the know this about me but maybe some of the listeners do um I think that we put far listeners do um I think that we put far listeners do um I think that we put far more energy and effort into social media more energy and effort into social media more energy and effort into social media content than we actually get on a the content than we actually get on a the content than we actually get on a the return on that investment I don't always return on that investment I don't always return on that investment I don't always think that social media uh is with the think that social media uh is with the think that social media uh is with the juice is worth the squeeze nonetheless juice is worth the squeeze nonetheless juice is worth the squeeze nonetheless nonetheless it is an area that every nonetheless it is an area that every nonetheless it is an area that every comm's director is putting some level of comm's director is putting some level of comm's director is putting some level of focus every church is utilizing social focus every church is utilizing social focus every church is utilizing social media as a way of communicating media as a way of communicating media as a way of communicating communicating their message communicating their message communicating their message communicating the ethos of their Church communicating the ethos of their Church communicating the ethos of their Church um in a recent video I was kind of um in a recent video I was kind of um in a recent video I was kind of scrolling through your Instagram feed scrolling through your Instagram feed scrolling through your Instagram feed and you were at a conference or and you were at a conference or and you were at a conference or something you can kind of give the something you can kind of give the something you can kind of give the context of this if you want to um but context of this if you want to um but context of this if you want to um but you were talking about uh challenging you were talking about uh challenging you were talking about uh challenging those that were in the audience at this those that were in the audience at this those that were in the audience at this conference you were speaking out conference you were speaking out conference you were speaking out speaking at to to think of the internet speaking at to to think of the internet speaking at to to think of the internet and I maybe maybe you're speaking and I maybe maybe you're speaking and I maybe maybe you're speaking specifically about social media but I specifically about social media but I specifically about social media but I know you're talking about the internet know you're talking about the internet know you're talking about the internet uh thinking about the the internet as a uh thinking about the the internet as a uh thinking about the the internet as a mission field as opposed to a mission field as opposed to a mission field as opposed to a battlefield and and maybe I'm just I'm battlefield and and maybe I'm just I'm battlefield and and maybe I'm just I'm I'm inferring the social media piece I'm inferring the social media piece I'm inferring the social media piece because I naturally see social media because I naturally see social media because I naturally see social media platforms as a battlefield but you you platforms as a battlefield but you you platforms as a battlefield but you you know you challenge your audience or know you challenge your audience or know you challenge your audience or encourage your audience to think of of encourage your audience to think of of encourage your audience to think of of the internet as a mission field as the internet as a mission field as the internet as a mission field as opposed to a battlefield talk us through

opposed to a battlefield talk us through opposed to a battlefield talk us through what led you to synthesize a statement what led you to synthesize a statement what led you to synthesize a statement like that what's sort of your heart like that what's sort of your heart like that what's sort of your heart behind that for sure yeah we were uh uh behind that for sure yeah we were uh uh behind that for sure yeah we were uh uh speaking at a conference Nick Zack and I speaking at a conference Nick Zack and I speaking at a conference Nick Zack and I all sort of teamed up together for for all sort of teamed up together for for all sort of teamed up together for for this uh keynote uh talk and uh it was this uh keynote uh talk and uh it was this uh keynote uh talk and uh it was that church conference in Atlanta uh that church conference in Atlanta uh that church conference in Atlanta uh last year in last year in last year in 2022 and we uh earlier in the day were 2022 and we uh earlier in the day were 2022 and we uh earlier in the day were sort of all just hanging out and talking sort of all just hanging out and talking sort of all just hanging out and talking and I was scrolling through Instagram if and I was scrolling through Instagram if and I was scrolling through Instagram if I remember correctly and I I found it I remember correctly and I I found it I remember correctly and I I found it was a video was like a real of some was a video was like a real of some was a video was like a real of some random person that I don't know who it random person that I don't know who it random person that I don't know who it was it was some Christian woman and she was it was some Christian woman and she was it was some Christian woman and she was sort of going on and on about the was sort of going on and on about the was sort of going on and on about the fact that effectively Christians aren't fact that effectively Christians aren't fact that effectively Christians aren't taking enough of a stand online for taking enough of a stand online for taking enough of a stand online for biblical values and that in order to biblical values and that in order to biblical values and that in order to really sort of change the world and like really sort of change the world and like really sort of change the world and like bring it back to you know Christian bring it back to you know Christian bring it back to you know Christian ideals and and all that kind of thing ideals and and all that kind of thing ideals and and all that kind of thing that we need to to find places online to that we need to to find places online to that we need to to find places online to sort of inject ourselves and display sort of inject ourselves and display sort of inject ourselves and display Christian values and then fight for Christian values and then fight for Christian values and then fight for those to exist more or less we're not those to exist more or less we're not those to exist more or less we're not getting in enough fights on the Internet getting in enough fights on the Internet getting in enough fights on the Internet is sort of the vibe that I was getting is sort of the vibe that I was getting is sort of the vibe that I was getting out of this and I out of this and I out of this and I remember watching that and then showing remember watching that and then showing remember watching that and then showing Nick and Zach and being like almost Nick and Zach and being like almost Nick and Zach and being like almost dumbfounded and both of them just their

dumbfounded and both of them just their dumbfounded and both of them just their personalities feel really deflated and personalities feel really deflated and personalities feel really deflated and my personality there's steam starting to my personality there's steam starting to my personality there's steam starting to come out in my ears uh because even like come out in my ears uh because even like come out in my ears uh because even like looking at the comments and seeing like looking at the comments and seeing like looking at the comments and seeing like yeah you're absolutely right that is yeah you're absolutely right that is yeah you're absolutely right that is absolutely the perspective and and of absolutely the perspective and and of absolutely the perspective and and of course I'm not saying that we don't need course I'm not saying that we don't need course I'm not saying that we don't need to like be clear about who we are online to like be clear about who we are online to like be clear about who we are online of what we believe and everything like of what we believe and everything like of what we believe and everything like that that's not what I'm saying um that that's not what I'm saying um that that's not what I'm saying um but you're going to find I would assume but you're going to find I would assume but you're going to find I would assume very few Christians today who became a very few Christians today who became a very few Christians today who became a Christian because of a debate that they Christian because of a debate that they Christian because of a debate that they had with the Christian one point or or had with the Christian one point or or had with the Christian one point or or on the other and especially on the on the other and especially on the on the other and especially on the internet where all nuance and and sort internet where all nuance and and sort internet where all nuance and and sort of uh conversational uh uh agreements of uh conversational uh uh agreements of uh conversational uh uh agreements just go straight out the window and just go straight out the window and just go straight out the window and people are ready to rip each other's people are ready to rip each other's people are ready to rip each other's throat out more often than not um so I I throat out more often than not um so I I throat out more often than not um so I I was reading this through and this was was reading this through and this was was reading this through and this was the morning of that we were supposed to the morning of that we were supposed to the morning of that we were supposed to be uh doing this talk on the idea of of be uh doing this talk on the idea of of be uh doing this talk on the idea of of creating churches developing uh digital creating churches developing uh digital creating churches developing uh digital missionaries sort of what we were missionaries sort of what we were missionaries sort of what we were talking about and realized that this talking about and realized that this talking about and realized that this mindset that I had seen sort of mindset that I had seen sort of mindset that I had seen sort of perpetuated online that is not only in perpetuated online that is not only in perpetuated online that is not only in that Creator space that is absolutely that Creator space that is absolutely that Creator space that is absolutely sort of a mindset that has spread sort of a mindset that has spread sort of a mindset that has spread throughout Christianity in general and throughout Christianity in general and throughout Christianity in general and certainly we are in times where certainly we are in times where certainly we are in times where uh it is a time of conflict in the world uh it is a time of conflict in the world uh it is a time of conflict in the world of ideas and I don't I don't want to get of ideas and I don't I don't want to get of ideas and I don't I don't want to get into all of that kind of stuff um but in into all of that kind of stuff um but in into all of that kind of stuff um but in almost every case in my experience when almost every case in my experience when almost every case in my experience when we are drawing attention to the line we are drawing attention to the line we are drawing attention to the line between us and them and not drawing

between us and them and not drawing between us and them and not drawing attention to the attention to the attention to the king we're doing it wrong right so king we're doing it wrong right so king we're doing it wrong right so whenever we're drawing those battle whenever we're drawing those battle whenever we're drawing those battle lines you know the battlefield like we lines you know the battlefield like we lines you know the battlefield like we were talking about we are actively were talking about we are actively were talking about we are actively working in such a way that are defending working in such a way that are defending working in such a way that are defending us but also potentially putting barriers us but also potentially putting barriers us but also potentially putting barriers in front of someone that could be in front of someone that could be in front of someone that could be meeting Jesus and is not and whenever it meeting Jesus and is not and whenever it meeting Jesus and is not and whenever it is that we were looking at the internet is that we were looking at the internet is that we were looking at the internet instead as a mission field as every instead as a mission field as every instead as a mission field as every single opportunity on social media uh single opportunity on social media uh single opportunity on social media uh every single opportunity you're every single opportunity you're every single opportunity you're scrolling through whether that be scrolling through whether that be scrolling through whether that be Instagram Facebook even YouTube whatever Instagram Facebook even YouTube whatever Instagram Facebook even YouTube whatever it else looking through comment sections it else looking through comment sections it else looking through comment sections and asking God every single step of the and asking God every single step of the and asking God every single step of the way what is some way that I can be uh uh way what is some way that I can be uh uh way what is some way that I can be uh uh that I can minister to someone in this that I can minister to someone in this that I can minister to someone in this space even if it's just a like that room space even if it's just a like that room space even if it's just a like that room that you redecorated was is incredible that you redecorated was is incredible that you redecorated was is incredible you did awesome whatever giving them a you did awesome whatever giving them a you did awesome whatever giving them a like a follow like just tiny little like a follow like just tiny little like a follow like just tiny little things having the option or uh having things having the option or uh having things having the option or uh having the chance to show the chance to show the chance to show Christ love instead of just sort of Christ love instead of just sort of Christ love instead of just sort of enforcing biblical values on people that enforcing biblical values on people that enforcing biblical values on people that haven't signed the contract yet you know haven't signed the contract yet you know haven't signed the contract yet you know uh I think that almost always that's uh I think that almost always that's uh I think that almost always that's going to be a better use of our time uh going to be a better use of our time uh going to be a better use of our time uh than the than the than the opposite you know it reminds me a sermon opposite you know it reminds me a sermon opposite you know it reminds me a sermon I preached at a church a few weeks ago I preached at a church a few weeks ago I preached at a church a few weeks ago um we're preaching I I was preaching on um we're preaching I I was preaching on um we're preaching I I was preaching on on the role of of the priest and in on the role of of the priest and in on the role of of the priest and in First Peter I think it's first Peter 2:9 First Peter I think it's first Peter 2:9 First Peter I think it's first Peter 2:9 um Peter refers to the church those

um Peter refers to the church those um Peter refers to the church those Jesus followers that he was writing to Jesus followers that he was writing to Jesus followers that he was writing to as a royal priesthood which you know we as a royal priesthood which you know we as a royal priesthood which you know we flash back to the moment at Mount Si flash back to the moment at Mount Si flash back to the moment at Mount Si when God is basically having kind of when God is basically having kind of when God is basically having kind of this wedding ceremony with the Israelite this wedding ceremony with the Israelite this wedding ceremony with the Israelite people that who have just come out of people that who have just come out of people that who have just come out of slavery you know he says you are a slavery you know he says you are a slavery you know he says you are a kingdom of priests and I started you kingdom of priests and I started you kingdom of priests and I started you know sort of trying to digest and know sort of trying to digest and know sort of trying to digest and understand what the role of the priest understand what the role of the priest understand what the role of the priest was and what that means for us as was and what that means for us as was and what that means for us as followers of Jesus today and your followers of Jesus today and your followers of Jesus today and your comments here really highlight something comments here really highlight something comments here really highlight something that God convicted me of while I was that God convicted me of while I was that God convicted me of while I was writing that sermon and that is that a writing that sermon and that is that a writing that sermon and that is that a priest's one of the one of the priest's priest's one of the one of the priest's priest's one of the one of the priest's primary roles is to help people navigate primary roles is to help people navigate primary roles is to help people navigate their atonement and it's hard it's hard their atonement and it's hard it's hard their atonement and it's hard it's hard to help people navigate their atonement to help people navigate their atonement to help people navigate their atonement to see where they are in relation to God to see where they are in relation to God to see where they are in relation to God and to walk alongside them and help them and to walk alongside them and help them and to walk alongside them and help them come to a place where they know when come to a place where they know when come to a place where they know when they are right with God it's a lot they are right with God it's a lot they are right with God it's a lot easier to pray play the role of prophet easier to pray play the role of prophet easier to pray play the role of prophet what does the prophet do well the what does the prophet do well the what does the prophet do well the prophet stands at up front and points at prophet stands at up front and points at prophet stands at up front and points at everybody and says you're wrong you're everybody and says you're wrong you're everybody and says you're wrong you're wrong you're wrong you're wrong this is wrong you're wrong you're wrong this is wrong you're wrong you're wrong this is what God's word says and you're all what God's word says and you're all what God's word says and you're all wrong and so our default posture I think wrong and so our default posture I think wrong and so our default posture I think as as as Christians can sometimes be as as as Christians can sometimes be as as as Christians can sometimes be that Prophet that Prophet posture which that Prophet that Prophet posture which that Prophet that Prophet posture which is what we see on social media so often is what we see on social media so often is what we see on social media so often right it's pointing out this is what right it's pointing out this is what right it's pointing out this is what God's truth says and this is how you are God's truth says and this is how you are God's truth says and this is how you are wrong rather than being that that priest wrong rather than being that that priest wrong rather than being that that priest which is a mediator and a person who's which is a mediator and a person who's which is a mediator and a person who's supposed to be helping people navigate supposed to be helping people navigate supposed to be helping people navigate their atonement so sorry I didn't mean

their atonement so sorry I didn't mean their atonement so sorry I didn't mean to get into a sermon here but when to get into a sermon here but when to get into a sermon here but when you're talking about that that was that you're talking about that that was that you're talking about that that was that was sort of the the the those were the was sort of the the the those were the was sort of the the the those were the thoughts that kind of came came to my thoughts that kind of came came to my thoughts that kind of came came to my head I I totally agree I was in a head I I totally agree I was in a head I I totally agree I was in a similar environment a couple months ago similar environment a couple months ago similar environment a couple months ago and and did a short talk and I I Ed the and and did a short talk and I I Ed the and and did a short talk and I I Ed the illustration of sort of the moment that illustration of sort of the moment that illustration of sort of the moment that you get saved and you know job is you get saved and you know job is you get saved and you know job is started to build the kingdom of heaven started to build the kingdom of heaven started to build the kingdom of heaven and we're given a stack of bricks and and we're given a stack of bricks and and we're given a stack of bricks and every day you have the option to build every day you have the option to build every day you have the option to build walls or build Bridges and there's a lot walls or build Bridges and there's a lot walls or build Bridges and there's a lot of people building walls right now of people building walls right now of people building walls right now making it harder and harder and drawing making it harder and harder and drawing making it harder and harder and drawing attention right to those lines of this attention right to those lines of this attention right to those lines of this you got to do this this and this you you got to do this this and this you you got to do this this and this you can't live like this this this in order can't live like this this this in order can't live like this this this in order to meet my king I would rather than meet to meet my king I would rather than meet to meet my king I would rather than meet the king first and he can help them the king first and he can help them the king first and he can help them through that and sure I we could be through that and sure I we could be through that and sure I we could be along for that that Journey but I want along for that that Journey but I want along for that that Journey but I want to make it as easy as possible people to make it as easy as possible people to make it as easy as possible people for people to know Jesus and I believe for people to know Jesus and I believe for people to know Jesus and I believe in the power of the Holy Spirit to help in the power of the Holy Spirit to help in the power of the Holy Spirit to help transform those lives after that uh so I transform those lives after that uh so I transform those lives after that uh so I just I don't think this is a New Concept just I don't think this is a New Concept just I don't think this is a New Concept I just want to bring that idea also to I just want to bring that idea also to I just want to bring that idea also to the internet where people are happy to the internet where people are happy to the internet where people are happy to rip each other's heads off for having a rip each other's heads off for having a rip each other's heads off for having a different opinion about nearly anything different opinion about nearly anything different opinion about nearly anything these days there are some people that these days there are some people that these days there are some people that are not using the bricks to build are not using the bricks to build are not using the bricks to build anything they're literally just throwing anything they're literally just throwing anything they're literally just throwing the bricks they're throwing yes for sure the bricks they're throwing yes for sure the bricks they're throwing yes for sure Bri don't do that either okay so so Bri don't do that either okay so so Bri don't do that either okay so so let's let's expand on sort of this let's let's expand on sort of this let's let's expand on sort of this concept this idea bringing it back to concept this idea bringing it back to concept this idea bringing it back to sort of you know website social media sort of you know website social media sort of you know website social media online online online communication if we're going to think of communication if we're going to think of communication if we're going to think of ourselves as being digital missionaries

ourselves as being digital missionaries ourselves as being digital missionaries of using the internet or viewing the of using the internet or viewing the of using the internet or viewing the internet as a mission field how do you internet as a mission field how do you internet as a mission field how do you think that that should inform the way think that that should inform the way think that that should inform the way that let's talk let's talk corporately I that let's talk let's talk corporately I that let's talk let's talk corporately I mean a lot of what you're experiencing mean a lot of what you're experiencing mean a lot of what you're experiencing and you're seeing is probably more on a and you're seeing is probably more on a and you're seeing is probably more on a personal level but I think yeah from personal level but I think yeah from personal level but I think yeah from from a corporate standpoint again from a corporate standpoint again from a corporate standpoint again because most of the people that are because most of the people that are because most of the people that are listening to this they're responsible listening to this they're responsible listening to this they're responsible for their Church's online presence y if for their Church's online presence y if for their Church's online presence y if they're responsible for their Church's they're responsible for their Church's they're responsible for their Church's online presence and they're going to online presence and they're going to online presence and they're going to view the internet as a mission field how view the internet as a mission field how view the internet as a mission field how does this inform the way that we use our does this inform the way that we use our does this inform the way that we use our digital media online social media digital media online social media digital media online social media channels and otherwise what what kind of channels and otherwise what what kind of channels and otherwise what what kind of advice and coaching would you give advice and coaching would you give advice and coaching would you give someone there for sure I I have a a someone there for sure I I have a a someone there for sure I I have a a different opinion on this than most of different opinion on this than most of different opinion on this than most of the other people that I've sort of the other people that I've sort of the other people that I've sort of spoken to in this space but I think that spoken to in this space but I think that spoken to in this space but I think that in es especially for social media well I in es especially for social media well I in es especially for social media well I don't think it's especially for social don't think it's especially for social don't think it's especially for social media uh the less corporate we can be in media uh the less corporate we can be in media uh the less corporate we can be in these sort of sort of developing these sort of sort of developing these sort of sort of developing relationships and getting to know relationships and getting to know relationships and getting to know especially people in our community especially people in our community especially people in our community outside of our churches the better uh so outside of our churches the better uh so outside of our churches the better uh so when it comes to engaging a community when it comes to engaging a community when it comes to engaging a community online specifically with the intention online specifically with the intention online specifically with the intention of evangelism the more personalized it of evangelism the more personalized it of evangelism the more personalized it can be is better and therefore if Our can be is better and therefore if Our can be is better and therefore if Our intention is to do that we should be intention is to do that we should be intention is to do that we should be spending less time on making sure our spending less time on making sure our spending less time on making sure our Church's social media platform is has as Church's social media platform is has as Church's social media platform is has as many likes or followers or engagement as many likes or followers or engagement as many likes or followers or engagement as it possibly can which is not necessarily it possibly can which is not necessarily it possibly can which is not necessarily A Bad Thing uh and spend more time train A Bad Thing uh and spend more time train A Bad Thing uh and spend more time train training members of our congregation to training members of our congregation to training members of our congregation to individually be ambassadors for Christ individually be ambassadors for Christ individually be ambassadors for Christ and our church to the specific areas of

and our church to the specific areas of and our church to the specific areas of the internet that they're in that we're the internet that they're in that we're the internet that they're in that we're not in right that our pastor is not in not in right that our pastor is not in not in right that our pastor is not in necessarily uh so we've talked about necessarily uh so we've talked about necessarily uh so we've talked about this concept of of the digital this concept of of the digital this concept of of the digital missionary a lot on our platform um uh missionary a lot on our platform um uh missionary a lot on our platform um uh the the Genesis of of it being really uh the the Genesis of of it being really uh the the Genesis of of it being really uh sort of three steps and sort of training sort of three steps and sort of training sort of three steps and sort of training individual members of your church to do individual members of your church to do individual members of your church to do the three step steps so the three steps the three step steps so the three steps the three step steps so the three steps the first one being uh identify your the first one being uh identify your the first one being uh identify your audience which is finding sort of a audience which is finding sort of a audience which is finding sort of a unique group of people that you have unique group of people that you have unique group of people that you have access to online that maybe other access to online that maybe other access to online that maybe other members of your church or uh uh members of your church or uh uh members of your church or uh uh congregation or whatever don't uh the congregation or whatever don't uh the congregation or whatever don't uh the second one is identifying with your second one is identifying with your second one is identifying with your audience which might mean creating audience which might mean creating audience which might mean creating content in that space it might mean just content in that space it might mean just content in that space it might mean just engaging with communities there that are engaging with communities there that are engaging with communities there that are already there regularly and continuing already there regularly and continuing already there regularly and continuing to talk and chat with people and figure to talk and chat with people and figure to talk and chat with people and figure out what that is and the third step out what that is and the third step out what that is and the third step being just ID identifying what your being just ID identifying what your being just ID identifying what your audience needs and you might not know audience needs and you might not know audience needs and you might not know that right at the very beginning and that right at the very beginning and that right at the very beginning and their need might not be an inherently their need might not be an inherently their need might not be an inherently spiritual thing necessarily but I mean spiritual thing necessarily but I mean spiritual thing necessarily but I mean Jesus washed people's feet and although Jesus washed people's feet and although Jesus washed people's feet and although we kind of carry a lot of spiritual we kind of carry a lot of spiritual we kind of carry a lot of spiritual meaning with that at the time that was meaning with that at the time that was meaning with that at the time that was just a thing that like servants did just a thing that like servants did just a thing that like servants did right that was just a way to serve the right that was just a way to serve the right that was just a way to serve the community uh so for me the story that community uh so for me the story that community uh so for me the story that I've sort of shared in the past and the I've sort of shared in the past and the I've sort of shared in the past and the sort of model that we've stum stumbled sort of model that we've stum stumbled sort of model that we've stum stumbled along uh a hand full of years ago along uh a hand full of years ago along uh a hand full of years ago actually in 2019 early in 2020 I got actually in 2019 early in 2020 I got actually in 2019 early in 2020 I got extremely into this hobby of um buying extremely into this hobby of um buying extremely into this hobby of um buying uh Nerf guns uh off of the shelf and

uh Nerf guns uh off of the shelf and uh Nerf guns uh off of the shelf and then modifying them to shoot like way then modifying them to shoot like way then modifying them to shoot like way harder than they ever should and my harder than they ever should and my harder than they ever should and my drywall right so like a typical Nerf gun drywall right so like a typical Nerf gun drywall right so like a typical Nerf gun shoots like 75 ft per second mine were shoots like 75 ft per second mine were shoots like 75 ft per second mine were shooting about 300 it was leaving wels shooting about 300 it was leaving wels shooting about 300 it was leaving wels it was incredible it was so much fun uh it was incredible it was so much fun uh it was incredible it was so much fun uh but it it turns out that there's this but it it turns out that there's this but it it turns out that there's this whole community of online of people whole community of online of people whole community of online of people online who do this whole thing and online who do this whole thing and online who do this whole thing and there's even there's even there's even a whole bunch of groups of other a whole bunch of groups of other a whole bunch of groups of other manchildren who will get together and manchildren who will get together and manchildren who will get together and have these like little uh like almost have these like little uh like almost have these like little uh like almost like a a airsoft club or whatever were like a a airsoft club or whatever were like a a airsoft club or whatever were local and they'll shoot each other with local and they'll shoot each other with local and they'll shoot each other with these things that they've made right and these things that they've made right and these things that they've made right and I had found a group that was localized I had found a group that was localized I had found a group that was localized to Grand Rapids uh that was meeting on to Grand Rapids uh that was meeting on to Grand Rapids uh that was meeting on Discord specifically to talk back and Discord specifically to talk back and Discord specifically to talk back and forth and uh sort of they wanted to set forth and uh sort of they wanted to set forth and uh sort of they wanted to set up a a game and they had not done it yet up a a game and they had not done it yet up a a game and they had not done it yet so I joined this group hoping to shoot so I joined this group hoping to shoot so I joined this group hoping to shoot people with my Nerf guns I had no people with my Nerf guns I had no people with my Nerf guns I had no intention of necessarily doing Ministry intention of necessarily doing Ministry intention of necessarily doing Ministry in it but I had unintentionally in it but I had unintentionally in it but I had unintentionally identified an audience that I had access identified an audience that I had access identified an audience that I had access to that my senior pastor wasn't right to that my senior pastor wasn't right to that my senior pastor wasn't right he's not going to be joining that he's not going to be joining that he's not going to be joining that anytime soon and then I spent a month or anytime soon and then I spent a month or anytime soon and then I spent a month or two just getting to know the people that two just getting to know the people that two just getting to know the people that were in there talking about the springs were in there talking about the springs were in there talking about the springs that we were putting in our blasters or that we were putting in our blasters or that we were putting in our blasters or the motors that we were using and going the motors that we were using and going the motors that we were using and going back and forth about 3D printing and back and forth about 3D printing and back and forth about 3D printing and sort of learning about who they were and sort of learning about who they were and sort of learning about who they were and where they lived and and what they did where they lived and and what they did where they lived and and what they did for work and just becoming a part of for work and just becoming a part of for work and just becoming a part of that community and getting to know these that community and getting to know these that community and getting to know these guys most of which were my age and guys most of which were my age and guys most of which were my age and around the sort of same stage of life um around the sort of same stage of life um around the sort of same stage of life um um and just becoming friends and then um and just becoming friends and then um and just becoming friends and then the last thing identifying what your the last thing identifying what your the last thing identifying what your audience needs they needed two things audience needs they needed two things audience needs they needed two things the first one was a place to play this

the first one was a place to play this the first one was a place to play this game because running around with things game because running around with things game because running around with things that look like guns in a public park and that look like guns in a public park and that look like guns in a public park and shooting at each other is a bad idea and shooting at each other is a bad idea and shooting at each other is a bad idea and a great way to get shot uh the second a great way to get shot uh the second a great way to get shot uh the second thing they really wanted was a logo uh thing they really wanted was a logo uh thing they really wanted was a logo uh and it turns out that a I worked at a and it turns out that a I worked at a and it turns out that a I worked at a relatively large church that had a relatively large church that had a relatively large church that had a recreational facility that they sort of recreational facility that they sort of recreational facility that they sort of rent out and let the community use all rent out and let the community use all rent out and let the community use all the time and I at that time had been a the time and I at that time had been a the time and I at that time had been a graphic designer for 15 years so in a graphic designer for 15 years so in a graphic designer for 15 years so in a matter of like a week I had solved both matter of like a week I had solved both matter of like a week I had solved both of these problems and they were over the of these problems and they were over the of these problems and they were over the moon excit they made me a chair on their moon excit they made me a chair on their moon excit they made me a chair on their Nerf board which I didn't even know was Nerf board which I didn't even know was Nerf board which I didn't even know was an option right um but then all of a an option right um but then all of a an option right um but then all of a sudden you know they saw the address of sudden you know they saw the address of sudden you know they saw the address of the church and they they look it up oh the church and they they look it up oh the church and they they look it up oh they realize it's a church and now all they realize it's a church and now all they realize it's a church and now all of these conversations start coming up of these conversations start coming up of these conversations start coming up of like uh questions of like many of like uh questions of like many of like uh questions of like many experiences about their faith in the experiences about their faith in the experiences about their faith in the past someone asking me like hey like am past someone asking me like hey like am past someone asking me like hey like am I allowed to wear ripped jeans right I allowed to wear ripped jeans right I allowed to wear ripped jeans right like uh uh like I haven't been baptized like uh uh like I haven't been baptized like uh uh like I haven't been baptized will I be allowed on the premises if I will I be allowed on the premises if I will I be allowed on the premises if I if I get shot and it hurts am I allowed if I get shot and it hurts am I allowed if I get shot and it hurts am I allowed to swear or they going to kick me out to swear or they going to kick me out to swear or they going to kick me out right which like all of these are silly right which like all of these are silly right which like all of these are silly little question but all of a sudden tiny little question but all of a sudden tiny little question but all of a sudden tiny little opportunities to have spiritual little opportunities to have spiritual little opportunities to have spiritual conversations with people that started conversations with people that started conversations with people that started as just we wanted we had the same Hobby as just we wanted we had the same Hobby as just we wanted we had the same Hobby in mind right and all of a sudden all in mind right and all of a sudden all in mind right and all of a sudden all these opportunities started opening up these opportunities started opening up these opportunities started opening up to have these conversations with these to have these conversations with these to have these conversations with these guys and minister to them in ways that guys and minister to them in ways that guys and minister to them in ways that uh never would have been possible in uh never would have been possible in uh never would have been possible in like an inperson count I never would like an inperson count I never would like an inperson count I never would have met these guys otherwise right and

have met these guys otherwise right and have met these guys otherwise right and so when we talk about um trying to find so when we talk about um trying to find so when we talk about um trying to find ways to minister to people online from a ways to minister to people online from a ways to minister to people online from a corporate standpoint I think personally corporate standpoint I think personally corporate standpoint I think personally that the best way to go about doing that that the best way to go about doing that that the best way to go about doing that is to find people at your church who is to find people at your church who is to find people at your church who already have an understanding of how the already have an understanding of how the already have an understanding of how the digital space Works whether that be digital space Works whether that be digital space Works whether that be social media or whatever and train them social media or whatever and train them social media or whatever and train them in exactly those steps of identifying in exactly those steps of identifying in exactly those steps of identifying your audience identifying with your your audience identifying with your your audience identifying with your audience identify what they need uh and audience identify what they need uh and audience identify what they need uh and I think eventually building a platform I think eventually building a platform I think eventually building a platform for all of the people they manage to for all of the people they manage to for all of the people they manage to minister to to sort of come together and minister to to sort of come together and minister to to sort of come together and build your online church out of that out build your online church out of that out build your online church out of that out of people who started online people who of people who started online people who of people who started online people who like were ministered to online and then like were ministered to online and then like were ministered to online and then instead of the opposite way where I instead of the opposite way where I instead of the opposite way where I we're going to as the Church staff try we're going to as the Church staff try we're going to as the Church staff try to pull people online and then to pull people online and then to pull people online and then eventually we'll find like some random eventually we'll find like some random eventually we'll find like some random nerd that like that's okay with sitting nerd that like that's okay with sitting nerd that like that's okay with sitting in Facebook comments for the whole in Facebook comments for the whole in Facebook comments for the whole service um to sort of respond to them or service um to sort of respond to them or service um to sort of respond to them or whatever I I think that that's a way whatever I I think that that's a way whatever I I think that that's a way more natural way of doing it and and I more natural way of doing it and and I more natural way of doing it and and I think it's a much more effective way at think it's a much more effective way at think it's a much more effective way at reaching people online individually reaching people online individually reaching people online individually rather than just paying Facebook to rather than just paying Facebook to rather than just paying Facebook to promote my you know easter event another promote my you know easter event another promote my you know easter event another $30 to reach another 15 more people or $30 to reach another 15 more people or $30 to reach another 15 more people or whatever whatever whatever yeah that is a very interesting it's a yeah that is a very interesting it's a yeah that is a very interesting it's a very interesting point I'm reminded of 1 very interesting point I'm reminded of 1 very interesting point I'm reminded of 1 Corinthians 10:31 that says whatever you Corinthians 10:31 that says whatever you Corinthians 10:31 that says whatever you do whether you eat drink or whatever do do whether you eat drink or whatever do do whether you eat drink or whatever do it all for the glory of God right so it all for the glory of God right so it all for the glory of God right so whether that's shooting people with Nerf whether that's shooting people with Nerf whether that's shooting people with Nerf guns for God's glory or right sharing

guns for God's glory or right sharing guns for God's glory or right sharing your life and sharing your story on your life and sharing your story on your life and sharing your story on social media I I think that you're on to social media I I think that you're on to social media I I think that you're on to something there I think that people I do something there I think that people I do something there I think that people I do I do evangelism training in churches I do evangelism training in churches I do evangelism training in churches sometimes and I I realize that even as sometimes and I I realize that even as sometimes and I I realize that even as I'm sitting here listening to you share I'm sitting here listening to you share I'm sitting here listening to you share this story that this story that this story that there's a missing component even to the there's a missing component even to the there's a missing component even to the evangelism training that I do which is evangelism training that I do which is evangelism training that I do which is helping people understand how to even helping people understand how to even helping people understand how to even leverage their own personal social media leverage their own personal social media leverage their own personal social media accounts and their own online digital accounts and their own online digital accounts and their own online digital presence right um to be ambassadors for presence right um to be ambassadors for presence right um to be ambassadors for for Jesus online because I don't I think for Jesus online because I don't I think for Jesus online because I don't I think most people are thinking about that most people are thinking about that most people are thinking about that naturally we expect our pastor to uh we naturally we expect our pastor to uh we naturally we expect our pastor to uh we expect our church leaders to but we may expect our church leaders to but we may expect our church leaders to but we may not always realize that we have reach not always realize that we have reach not always realize that we have reach and connection with people that the and connection with people that the and connection with people that the church leaders and the pastors never do church leaders and the pastors never do church leaders and the pastors never do you know my church that I used to Pastor you know my church that I used to Pastor you know my church that I used to Pastor uh we used to print postcards uh for our uh we used to print postcards uh for our uh we used to print postcards uh for our sermon series or our events and we sermon series or our events and we sermon series or our events and we didn't mail them you know that's is kind didn't mail them you know that's is kind didn't mail them you know that's is kind of old school there was a time there was of old school there was a time there was of old school there was a time there was a time and I was mailing like 30 or a time and I was mailing like 30 or a time and I was mailing like 30 or 40,000 postcards for every event pre pre 40,000 postcards for every event pre pre 40,000 postcards for every event pre pre Facebook and internet marketing but I Facebook and internet marketing but I Facebook and internet marketing but I would print these postcards and I would would print these postcards and I would would print these postcards and I would stand up front of the church and say stand up front of the church and say stand up front of the church and say okay everybody got one of these okay everybody got one of these okay everybody got one of these postcards when you came in today this postcards when you came in today this postcards when you came in today this isn't for you this is for someone that isn't for you this is for someone that isn't for you this is for someone that you know that I don't know because you you know that I don't know because you you know that I don't know because you have reach that I don't have the ability have reach that I don't have the ability have reach that I don't have the ability to reach and I think that if people to reach and I think that if people to reach and I think that if people realize that their own personal social realize that their own personal social realize that their own personal social presence their own personal social presence their own personal social presence their own personal social accounts can actually be an amazing accounts can actually be an amazing accounts can actually be an amazing conduit um an amazing tool for the conduit um an amazing tool for the conduit um an amazing tool for the gospel without being preachy right I gospel without being preachy right I gospel without being preachy right I think one of the other things that you think one of the other things that you think one of the other things that you said that really resonated with me was said that really resonated with me was said that really resonated with me was you created a situation and an

you created a situation and an you created a situation and an environment that got people to ask environment that got people to ask environment that got people to ask questions that you then got to answer questions that you then got to answer questions that you then got to answer and I think for the church as a whole we and I think for the church as a whole we and I think for the church as a whole we have a problem with trying to answer have a problem with trying to answer have a problem with trying to answer questions that no one's actually asking questions that no one's actually asking questions that no one's actually asking because we don't listen well enough to because we don't listen well enough to because we don't listen well enough to know what people really need to have know what people really need to have know what people really need to have answered and I think it really it really answered and I think it really it really answered and I think it really it really bodess well for us to be people who bodess well for us to be people who bodess well for us to be people who again listen well so that we can know again listen well so that we can know again listen well so that we can know what people are asking so that we can what people are asking so that we can what people are asking so that we can ask better questions and get better ask better questions and get better ask better questions and get better answers um cayb we're just about out of answers um cayb we're just about out of answers um cayb we're just about out of time I want to give our audience an time I want to give our audience an time I want to give our audience an opportunity to um kind of know how they opportunity to um kind of know how they opportunity to um kind of know how they can connect with you how they can watch can connect with you how they can watch can connect with you how they can watch the content that you guys are creating I the content that you guys are creating I the content that you guys are creating I for me I appreciate you hanging out with for me I appreciate you hanging out with for me I appreciate you hanging out with me today it's been a really cool me today it's been a really cool me today it's been a really cool conversation uh very pretty much what I conversation uh very pretty much what I conversation uh very pretty much what I would expect it just because I've would expect it just because I've would expect it just because I've listened to enough of the stuff that you listened to enough of the stuff that you listened to enough of the stuff that you do that I knew it was going to be uh do that I knew it was going to be uh do that I knew it was going to be uh somewhat uh cerebral in terms of your somewhat uh cerebral in terms of your somewhat uh cerebral in terms of your approach to a lot of things a digital approach to a lot of things a digital approach to a lot of things a digital you're a creative guy you're a great you're a creative guy you're a great you're a creative guy you're a great thinker um and I really like the way thinker um and I really like the way thinker um and I really like the way that you express yourself your thoughts that you express yourself your thoughts that you express yourself your thoughts your experiences and I can tell that you your experiences and I can tell that you your experiences and I can tell that you love Jesus and you want to help people love Jesus and you want to help people love Jesus and you want to help people that don't know Jesus find Jesus too so that don't know Jesus find Jesus too so that don't know Jesus find Jesus too so that that uh that really means a lot to that that uh that really means a lot to that that uh that really means a lot to me and I appreciate you hanging out with me and I appreciate you hanging out with me and I appreciate you hanging out with us um as we wrap things up here today us um as we wrap things up here today us um as we wrap things up here today where can people connect with you online where can people connect with you online where can people connect with you online how can they find black bar content how can they find black bar content how can they find black bar content where do they go yeah you can find us on where do they go yeah you can find us on where do they go yeah you can find us on YouTube you search blackb bar spelled YouTube you search blackb bar spelled YouTube you search blackb bar spelled out all the way or out all the way or out all the way or blkb or also on Instagram at BL K.B if blkb or also on Instagram at BL K.B if blkb or also on Instagram at BL K.B if you want some smaller Snippets of the you want some smaller Snippets of the you want some smaller Snippets of the conversation we have uh but the main

conversation we have uh but the main conversation we have uh but the main place that we hang out we have uh the place that we hang out we have uh the place that we hang out we have uh the black bar Discord uh which you can find black bar Discord uh which you can find black bar Discord uh which you can find on our website which is blkb it's it's a on our website which is blkb it's it's a on our website which is blkb it's it's a theme that we we got going on there uh theme that we we got going on there uh theme that we we got going on there uh but our Discord we've got at this point but our Discord we've got at this point but our Discord we've got at this point thousands of Church media people and thousands of Church media people and thousands of Church media people and marketing and Communications and marketing and Communications and marketing and Communications and creative people people who do it creative people people who do it creative people people who do it full-time people do it volunteer people full-time people do it volunteer people full-time people do it volunteer people do it incredibly professionally and do it incredibly professionally and do it incredibly professionally and people who do it very not professionally people who do it very not professionally people who do it very not professionally and we're all in there helping each and we're all in there helping each and we're all in there helping each other get better at what we do and other get better at what we do and other get better at what we do and helping each other stay healthy at the helping each other stay healthy at the helping each other stay healthy at the same time uh and it's really been one of same time uh and it's really been one of same time uh and it's really been one of the biggest successes of black bar is the biggest successes of black bar is the biggest successes of black bar is just building a community that allows just building a community that allows just building a community that allows people to be honest and and and sort of people to be honest and and and sort of people to be honest and and and sort of have that lifegiving sort of have that lifegiving sort of have that lifegiving sort of relationship with people who've been relationship with people who've been relationship with people who've been through the same sort of garbage uh uh through the same sort of garbage uh uh through the same sort of garbage uh uh that they have uh because sort of like I that they have uh because sort of like I that they have uh because sort of like I talked about the beginning that this is talked about the beginning that this is talked about the beginning that this is a spiritually dangerous position to be a spiritually dangerous position to be a spiritually dangerous position to be in the world of marketing Communications in the world of marketing Communications in the world of marketing Communications and Tech in the church and if you're not and Tech in the church and if you're not and Tech in the church and if you're not taking intentional steps at at taking intentional steps at at taking intentional steps at at protecting your spiritual health and protecting your spiritual health and protecting your spiritual health and your mental health you will burn out and your mental health you will burn out and your mental health you will burn out and I have too many friends that have burned I have too many friends that have burned I have too many friends that have burned their way out of Faith uh I've even been their way out of Faith uh I've even been their way out of Faith uh I've even been close to it at at points in my journey close to it at at points in my journey close to it at at points in my journey and I want to prevent as many of that uh and I want to prevent as many of that uh and I want to prevent as many of that uh as much of that happening as possible so as much of that happening as possible so as much of that happening as possible so you can find us on our Discord on you can find us on our Discord on you can find us on our Discord on YouTube uh or just about anywhere else YouTube uh or just about anywhere else YouTube uh or just about anywhere else that you listen to podcasts thank you that you listen to podcasts thank you that you listen to podcasts thank you Caleb uh I I will say this uh until I Caleb uh I I will say this uh until I Caleb uh I I will say this uh until I started listening to your podcast I had started listening to your podcast I had started listening to your podcast I had no idea what a Discord was sure cons no idea what a Discord was sure cons no idea what a Discord was sure cons consequently I've actually had churches consequently I've actually had churches consequently I've actually had churches from time to time ask me if Discord was

from time to time ask me if Discord was from time to time ask me if Discord was something that they could potentially something that they could potentially something that they could potentially use and I'm like I have no idea go join use and I'm like I have no idea go join use and I'm like I have no idea go join this group black bar they have this this group black bar they have this this group black bar they have this Discord thing I don't have any idea how Discord thing I don't have any idea how Discord thing I don't have any idea how it works if any of you are listening to it works if any of you are listening to it works if any of you are listening to this and you've never been in a Discord this and you've never been in a Discord this and you've never been in a Discord before you can go join one and see what before you can go join one and see what before you can go join one and see what it's like and maybe it's something that it's like and maybe it's something that it's like and maybe it's something that you can actually repurpose The you can actually repurpose The you can actually repurpose The Experience somewhere else uh but at the Experience somewhere else uh but at the Experience somewhere else uh but at the very least it sounds like a great very least it sounds like a great very least it sounds like a great Community to connect in just uh to be Community to connect in just uh to be Community to connect in just uh to be encouraged to be blessed to be supported encouraged to be blessed to be supported encouraged to be blessed to be supported and in what you're doing uh Caleb thanks and in what you're doing uh Caleb thanks and in what you're doing uh Caleb thanks again uh for hanging out with me today again uh for hanging out with me today again uh for hanging out with me today uh for those of you who have made it all uh for those of you who have made it all uh for those of you who have made it all the way here to the end of the podcast the way here to the end of the podcast the way here to the end of the podcast we applaud you Caleb and I both applaud we applaud you Caleb and I both applaud we applaud you Caleb and I both applaud you uh and we want to yeah we want to you uh and we want to yeah we want to you uh and we want to yeah we want to remind you that if if you haven't remind you that if if you haven't remind you that if if you haven't subscribed wherever you're listening subscribed wherever you're listening subscribed wherever you're listening make sure that you do that leave us a make sure that you do that leave us a make sure that you do that leave us a rating or review if you're on the rating or review if you're on the rating or review if you're on the YouTube channel uh as we always do uh YouTube channel uh as we always do uh YouTube channel uh as we always do uh the very top comment uh on the YouTube the very top comment uh on the YouTube the very top comment uh on the YouTube video is a question and we would love to video is a question and we would love to video is a question and we would love to engage with you on that YouTube channel engage with you on that YouTube channel engage with you on that YouTube channel it's pinned to the top so check out that it's pinned to the top so check out that it's pinned to the top so check out that question answer that question love to question answer that question love to question answer that question love to engage with you there Caleb once again engage with you there Caleb once again engage with you there Caleb once again thanks for being on the show man yeah thanks for being on the show man yeah thanks for being on the show man yeah thanks for having me super