Ideas on a Deadline | Phil Cooke

[Music] [Music] talking to airline pilots who told me talking to airline pilots who told me talking to airline pilots who told me you know when they start seeing the end you know when they start seeing the end you know when they start seeing the end of that runway coming up on a takeoff of that runway coming up on a takeoff of that runway coming up on a takeoff they that gets their blood pumping it they that gets their blood pumping it they that gets their blood pumping it gets their adrenaline going they get gets their adrenaline going they get gets their adrenaline going they get really focused and serious and i'm there really focused and serious and i'm there really focused and serious and i'm there i'm the same way creatively when i see i'm the same way creatively when i see i'm the same way creatively when i see that deadline looming out there that deadline looming out there that deadline looming out there i get really really serious so i think i get really really serious so i think i get really really serious so i think the key thing is learn to use deadlines the key thing is learn to use deadlines the key thing is learn to use deadlines in your favor don't be afraid of them in your favor don't be afraid of them in your favor don't be afraid of them don't don't fear them because they i don't don't fear them because they i don't don't fear them because they i think there's a lot of people that think there's a lot of people that think there's a lot of people that deadlines just just the idea deadlines just just the idea deadlines just just the idea that i have a deadline it just they that i have a deadline it just they that i have a deadline it just they freeze up we need to learn to make your freeze up we need to learn to make your freeze up we need to learn to make your deadline a deadline your friend so then deadline a deadline your friend so then deadline a deadline your friend so then you can use it to really jack up your you can use it to really jack up your you can use it to really jack up your creativity to a whole other level creativity to a whole other level creativity to a whole other level well hey there welcome to the missional well hey there welcome to the missional well hey there welcome to the missional marketing podcast i'm bart blair joined marketing podcast i'm bart blair joined marketing podcast i'm bart blair joined by jason hamrock and uh we're grateful by jason hamrock and uh we're grateful by jason hamrock and uh we're grateful that you have tuned into the show today that you have tuned into the show today that you have tuned into the show today we've got a really special one jason you we've got a really special one jason you we've got a really special one jason you want to share about our new guest today want to share about our new guest today want to share about our new guest today our friend phil cook he's back on the our friend phil cook he's back on the our friend phil cook he's back on the show uh phil wrote a book another book show uh phil wrote a book another book show uh phil wrote a book another book because this guy is talented and it's because this guy is talented and it's because this guy is talented and it's ideas on a deadline and as a church ideas on a deadline and as a church ideas on a deadline and as a church staff that's the name of the book ideas staff that's the name of the book ideas staff that's the name of the book ideas on the deadline and as church staff on the deadline and as church staff on the deadline and as church staff we face deadlines we face deadlines we face deadlines all the time right every seven days all the time right every seven days all the time right every seven days every seven days there's a deadline and every seven days there's a deadline and every seven days there's a deadline and so phil kind of breaks down so phil kind of breaks down so phil kind of breaks down um that creative juice that comes at um that creative juice that comes at um that creative juice that comes at that last moment and how do you that last moment and how do you that last moment and how do you capitalize on that right so if you're a capitalize on that right so if you're a capitalize on that right so if you're a creative person or even you're not a creative person or even you're not a creative person or even you're not a creative person we all live in deadlines creative person we all live in deadlines creative person we all live in deadlines how can you be the most effective at how can you be the most effective at how can you be the most effective at that deadline so i'm going to encourage that deadline so i'm going to encourage that deadline so i'm going to encourage you get the book ideas on a deadline and

you get the book ideas on a deadline and you get the book ideas on a deadline and buy it for your whole team but phil this buy it for your whole team but phil this buy it for your whole team but phil this is a great conversation because phil we is a great conversation because phil we is a great conversation because phil we get into the weeds a little bit of how get into the weeds a little bit of how get into the weeds a little bit of how he thinks and how he wrote this book and he thinks and how he wrote this book and he thinks and how he wrote this book and you're it's gonna it's it's fantastic i you're it's gonna it's it's fantastic i you're it's gonna it's it's fantastic i can't wait for you to hear from him can't wait for you to hear from him can't wait for you to hear from him yeah phil is um a prolific producer of yeah phil is um a prolific producer of yeah phil is um a prolific producer of content uh writing producing commercials content uh writing producing commercials content uh writing producing commercials television film uh he's had his hands in television film uh he's had his hands in television film uh he's had his hands in a lot of big projects with a lot of very a lot of big projects with a lot of very a lot of big projects with a lot of very creative very talented people his creative very talented people his creative very talented people his organization the cook media group has organization the cook media group has organization the cook media group has all kinds of projects that they work on all kinds of projects that they work on all kinds of projects that they work on with for-profits and non-profits and with for-profits and non-profits and with for-profits and non-profits and really really honored that he would really really honored that he would really really honored that he would come back to our show for a second time come back to our show for a second time come back to our show for a second time we haven't had a whole lot of uh uh we haven't had a whole lot of uh uh we haven't had a whole lot of uh uh two-time guests but phil is one of them two-time guests but phil is one of them two-time guests but phil is one of them and we're just grateful uh for him and we're just grateful uh for him and we're just grateful uh for him hanging out with us so that we could hanging out with us so that we could hanging out with us so that we could help him uh promote this book which has help him uh promote this book which has help him uh promote this book which has already changed some things for me and already changed some things for me and already changed some things for me and just in terms of my own creativity i'll just in terms of my own creativity i'll just in terms of my own creativity i'll share a little bit about that um in the share a little bit about that um in the share a little bit about that um in the in the interview um we want to thank you in the interview um we want to thank you in the interview um we want to thank you uh our podcast listeners or viewers uh uh our podcast listeners or viewers uh uh our podcast listeners or viewers uh for tuning in whether you're watching for tuning in whether you're watching for tuning in whether you're watching this on youtube or this on youtube or this on youtube or maybe you're listening on your favorite maybe you're listening on your favorite maybe you're listening on your favorite podcast app if you haven't subscribed podcast app if you haven't subscribed podcast app if you haven't subscribed make sure you do that so that you don't make sure you do that so that you don't make sure you do that so that you don't miss any episodes and if you haven't miss any episodes and if you haven't miss any episodes and if you haven't left us a rating or review we'd really left us a rating or review we'd really left us a rating or review we'd really appreciate you doing so it'll just help appreciate you doing so it'll just help appreciate you doing so it'll just help more people find the podcast we know more people find the podcast we know more people find the podcast we know that you have lots of podcasts to choose that you have lots of podcasts to choose that you have lots of podcasts to choose from and the fact that you would let from and the fact that you would let from and the fact that you would let jason and me and our friends come into jason and me and our friends come into jason and me and our friends come into your uh airpods or headphones or car your uh airpods or headphones or car your uh airpods or headphones or car stereo or however you listen we really stereo or however you listen we really stereo or however you listen we really really do appreciate it and uh if you're really do appreciate it and uh if you're really do appreciate it and uh if you're a church communications professional or

a church communications professional or a church communications professional or a church leader and you have any a church leader and you have any a church leader and you have any specific needs about specific needs about specific needs about related to church marketing or church related to church marketing or church related to church marketing or church communications jason and i are always communications jason and i are always communications jason and i are always around to help you you can go to our around to help you you can go to our around to help you you can go to our website nationalmarketing.com website nationalmarketing.com website nationalmarketing.com there's a tab at the top called contact there's a tab at the top called contact there's a tab at the top called contact hit that contact schedule an appointment hit that contact schedule an appointment hit that contact schedule an appointment with one of us and we would be more than with one of us and we would be more than with one of us and we would be more than happy to talk with you about your church happy to talk with you about your church happy to talk with you about your church and your church's needs as it relates to and your church's needs as it relates to and your church's needs as it relates to digital marketing and communications um digital marketing and communications um digital marketing and communications um that's it for commercials uh let's get that's it for commercials uh let's get that's it for commercials uh let's get on with this awesome show here's our on with this awesome show here's our on with this awesome show here's our interview with phil cook phil cook we interview with phil cook phil cook we interview with phil cook phil cook we are so excited to have you back on the are so excited to have you back on the are so excited to have you back on the show today thanks for joining us show today thanks for joining us show today thanks for joining us i'm thrilled to be back we had a great i'm thrilled to be back we had a great i'm thrilled to be back we had a great time last time so i'm looking forward to time last time so i'm looking forward to time last time so i'm looking forward to this this this hey uh this hey uh this hey uh this we this came up pretty quickly uh you've we this came up pretty quickly uh you've we this came up pretty quickly uh you've got a new book out that we're going to got a new book out that we're going to got a new book out that we're going to be having a conversation about here in be having a conversation about here in be having a conversation about here in just a few minutes and kind of dive into just a few minutes and kind of dive into just a few minutes and kind of dive into some of the content of this uh this new some of the content of this uh this new some of the content of this uh this new book um but before we go down that book um but before we go down that book um but before we go down that direction uh for direction uh for direction uh for our folks that are listening or watching our folks that are listening or watching our folks that are listening or watching this who don't have any idea who you are this who don't have any idea who you are this who don't have any idea who you are maybe they don't know phil cook why maybe they don't know phil cook why maybe they don't know phil cook why don't you give us a little bit of your don't you give us a little bit of your don't you give us a little bit of your background your story how you ended up background your story how you ended up background your story how you ended up doing what you're doing today doing what you're doing today doing what you're doing today well i'm a preacher's kid from north well i'm a preacher's kid from north well i'm a preacher's kid from north carolina and i went to college thinking carolina and i went to college thinking carolina and i went to college thinking i would maybe be a music major had no i would maybe be a music major had no i would maybe be a music major had no clue what to do with my life but in high clue what to do with my life but in high clue what to do with my life but in high school i had a bunch of friends that school i had a bunch of friends that school i had a bunch of friends that made little super 8 movies with my dad's made little super 8 movies with my dad's made little super 8 movies with my dad's movie camera back in the day and we made movie camera back in the day and we made movie camera back in the day and we made we made space movies and mafia movies we made space movies and mafia movies we made space movies and mafia movies and all kind of and all kind of and all kind of stupid stuff and stupid stuff and stupid stuff and i took him to college thinking maybe i took him to college thinking maybe i took him to college thinking maybe i'll find some buddies that want to make i'll find some buddies that want to make i'll find some buddies that want to make movies in college never never crossed my movies in college never never crossed my movies in college never never crossed my mind i'd do it for a living and

mind i'd do it for a living and mind i'd do it for a living and literally the day i was checking into literally the day i was checking into literally the day i was checking into the dorm i opened my suitcase a couple the dorm i opened my suitcase a couple the dorm i opened my suitcase a couple of the films rolled out and a guy across of the films rolled out and a guy across of the films rolled out and a guy across the hall rod carlson i'll never forget i the hall rod carlson i'll never forget i the hall rod carlson i'll never forget i said hey i'm taking a film class i can said hey i'm taking a film class i can said hey i'm taking a film class i can show you how to edit those how did you show you how to edit those how did you show you how to edit those how did you know you could edit film which made for know you could edit film which made for know you could edit film which made for interesting fight scenes let me tell you interesting fight scenes let me tell you interesting fight scenes let me tell you and um so we went down to the film and um so we went down to the film and um so we went down to the film department that night working on it and department that night working on it and department that night working on it and um as you know it gets late in the um as you know it gets late in the um as you know it gets late in the evening i realized the film evening i realized the film evening i realized the film the head of the film department the the head of the film department the the head of the film department the professor was there working on a project professor was there working on a project professor was there working on a project of his and as he left he walked by our of his and as he left he walked by our of his and as he left he walked by our little console and just introduced little console and just introduced little console and just introduced himself and said hey i've got kids himself and said hey i've got kids himself and said hey i've got kids taking film class for the last two years taking film class for the last two years taking film class for the last two years that don't do this well he said can i that don't do this well he said can i that don't do this well he said can i show your movie in my class show your movie in my class show your movie in my class so i'm sure if i can sit in the back row so i'm sure if i can sit in the back row so i'm sure if i can sit in the back row and so the next day he he showed the and so the next day he he showed the and so the next day he he showed the movie in the class i sat on the back row movie in the class i sat on the back row movie in the class i sat on the back row and here's the interesting thing guys and here's the interesting thing guys and here's the interesting thing guys when he showed the movie at the end of when he showed the movie at the end of when he showed the movie at the end of it and trust me it was nothing to scream it and trust me it was nothing to scream it and trust me it was nothing to scream about it was no great movie but at the about it was no great movie but at the about it was no great movie but at the end people in the class talked about it end people in the class talked about it end people in the class talked about it they discussed it and this thought they discussed it and this thought they discussed it and this thought occurred to me i mean i've never had a occurred to me i mean i've never had a occurred to me i mean i've never had a crystal clear moment of revelation like crystal clear moment of revelation like crystal clear moment of revelation like this before since that if i can do this before since that if i can do this before since that if i can do something with a camera that makes something with a camera that makes something with a camera that makes people talk like this that's what i'm people talk like this that's what i'm people talk like this that's what i'm supposed to do with my life and i supposed to do with my life and i supposed to do with my life and i literally changed my major that day to literally changed my major that day to literally changed my major that day to film and television enrolled and i've film and television enrolled and i've film and television enrolled and i've never looked back and although we've never looked back and although we've never looked back and although we've done movies television programs all kind done movies television programs all kind done movies television programs all kind of stuff our team at cook media group of stuff our team at cook media group of stuff our team at cook media group here in los angeles here in los angeles here in los angeles we uh kind of focus on the the church we uh kind of focus on the the church we uh kind of focus on the the church world we want to help churches ministry world we want to help churches ministry world we want to help churches ministry organizations non-profits we we work organizations non-profits we we work organizations non-profits we we work with big nonprofits like the salvation with big nonprofits like the salvation with big nonprofits like the salvation army or the museum of the bible or army or the museum of the bible or army or the museum of the bible or others and to help them just tell their

others and to help them just tell their others and to help them just tell their story better well you know i'm a i'm story better well you know i'm a i'm story better well you know i'm a i'm essentially a filmmaker i'm a producer essentially a filmmaker i'm a producer essentially a filmmaker i'm a producer and a writer and we want to go in there and a writer and we want to go in there and a writer and we want to go in there and whether it's videos or whatever we and whether it's videos or whatever we and whether it's videos or whatever we want to help them tell their story want to help them tell their story want to help them tell their story better so i just really have a passion i better so i just really have a passion i better so i just really have a passion i think think think not to rant here but i think one of the not to rant here but i think one of the not to rant here but i think one of the big reasons christianity is disappearing big reasons christianity is disappearing big reasons christianity is disappearing from the culture is because we just from the culture is because we just from the culture is because we just don't tell our story well in this don't tell our story well in this don't tell our story well in this digital age we live in which you guys digital age we live in which you guys digital age we live in which you guys know more than anybody and this digital know more than anybody and this digital know more than anybody and this digital age we live in most churches ministry age we live in most churches ministry age we live in most churches ministry organizations organizations organizations just don't know how to tell our story in just don't know how to tell our story in just don't know how to tell our story in that world and so i feel a real real that world and so i feel a real real that world and so i feel a real real passion to go help them really get their passion to go help them really get their passion to go help them really get their story out there because our story could story out there because our story could story out there because our story could change the world wow yeah you i can't change the world wow yeah you i can't change the world wow yeah you i can't wait to talk about this this book that wait to talk about this this book that wait to talk about this this book that you just have released but i you brought you just have released but i you brought you just have released but i you brought me back to days when i was on staff at me back to days when i was on staff at me back to days when i was on staff at my church and my pastor says my church and my pastor says my church and my pastor says we have to make sure we avoid we have to make sure we avoid we have to make sure we avoid these three things because most people these three things because most people these three things because most people when they think about church they think when they think about church they think when they think about church they think it's it's it's boring irrelevant and predictable boring irrelevant and predictable boring irrelevant and predictable and a lot of times they're right and a lot of times they're right and a lot of times they're right yeah true submitted yeah true submitted yeah true submitted but the gospel is anything but but we but the gospel is anything but but we but the gospel is anything but but we have to you know in in terms of have to you know in in terms of have to you know in in terms of sharing or telling the story and making sharing or telling the story and making sharing or telling the story and making it creative and you know it's it creative and you know it's it creative and you know it's god gave us this ability to do that so god gave us this ability to do that so god gave us this ability to do that so we're always challenging churches to we're always challenging churches to we're always challenging churches to think this way so it sounds like that i think this way so it sounds like that i think this way so it sounds like that i mean that was your calling in life mean that was your calling in life mean that was your calling in life and and you've been on this on this path and and you've been on this on this path and and you've been on this on this path ever since i mean yeah when it comes to ever since i mean yeah when it comes to ever since i mean yeah when it comes to creativity talk a little bit about that creativity talk a little bit about that creativity talk a little bit about that like well we've like well we've like well we've we produced programming in about 70 we produced programming in about 70 we produced programming in about 70 countries around the world done a lot of

countries around the world done a lot of countries around the world done a lot of stuff internationally and um got an stuff internationally and um got an stuff internationally and um got an opportunity to work with some great opportunity to work with some great opportunity to work with some great leaders and great organizations and and leaders and great organizations and and leaders and great organizations and and it's just a real honor to be able to to it's just a real honor to be able to to it's just a real honor to be able to to be able to do that um i think that uh be able to do that um i think that uh be able to do that um i think that uh you know you mentioned a great thing you know you mentioned a great thing you know you mentioned a great thing about relevance and and i've always about relevance and and i've always about relevance and and i've always thought the bible's already relevant we thought the bible's already relevant we thought the bible's already relevant we don't have to make it relevant there's don't have to make it relevant there's don't have to make it relevant there's nothing we need to do we just need to nothing we need to do we just need to nothing we need to do we just need to tell that story well and um i think a tell that story well and um i think a tell that story well and um i think a lot of it is about you know it's not lot of it is about you know it's not lot of it is about you know it's not about compromising your theology it's about compromising your theology it's about compromising your theology it's not about watering down what you believe not about watering down what you believe not about watering down what you believe it's just understanding how this culture it's just understanding how this culture it's just understanding how this culture communicates you know the era of paul communicates you know the era of paul communicates you know the era of paul people communicated differently he used people communicated differently he used people communicated differently he used the technology of his day which was the technology of his day which was the technology of his day which was letters to really build the foundation letters to really build the foundation letters to really build the foundation of the church and then or you know along of the church and then or you know along of the church and then or you know along comes 1500 and this obscure monk named comes 1500 and this obscure monk named comes 1500 and this obscure monk named martin luther sees the printing press he martin luther sees the printing press he martin luther sees the printing press he saw the vision of the printing press and saw the vision of the printing press and saw the vision of the printing press and used that to become the most popular used that to become the most popular used that to become the most popular author in the world and so i think author in the world and so i think author in the world and so i think technology can be a powerful tool to technology can be a powerful tool to technology can be a powerful tool to share this story if we understand how to share this story if we understand how to share this story if we understand how to do it we're not afraid to do it so i do it we're not afraid to do it so i do it we're not afraid to do it so i think today in this digital world we think today in this digital world we think today in this digital world we live in it's really changing the rules live in it's really changing the rules live in it's really changing the rules about how we communicate and so we need about how we communicate and so we need about how we communicate and so we need to just understand that and step out to just understand that and step out to just understand that and step out there and get the story out there oh i there and get the story out there oh i there and get the story out there oh i love that okay so you so you it's all love that okay so you so you it's all love that okay so you so you it's all about about about taking the message message we've been taking the message message we've been taking the message message we've been we've been tasked to do that as we've been tasked to do that as we've been tasked to do that as believers and followers believers and followers believers and followers uh being creative is just one of those uh being creative is just one of those uh being creative is just one of those things that you want to do you wrote a things that you want to do you wrote a things that you want to do you wrote a book yeah okay uh ideas on a deadline book yeah okay uh ideas on a deadline book yeah okay uh ideas on a deadline talk a little bit about like talk a little bit about like talk a little bit about like why why this book i mean i i i can't why why this book i mean i i i can't why why this book i mean i i i can't okay i'm gonna stop you okay i guess okay i'm gonna stop you okay i guess okay i'm gonna stop you okay i guess that was seamless self-promotion yeah

that was seamless self-promotion yeah that was seamless self-promotion yeah okay so our listeners our listeners will okay so our listeners our listeners will okay so our listeners our listeners will not get this but those that are watching not get this but those that are watching not get this but those that are watching on youtube on youtube on youtube hold the book up one more time i'll hold hold the book up one more time i'll hold hold the book up one more time i'll hold up one more time yeah so so i downloaded up one more time yeah so so i downloaded up one more time yeah so so i downloaded the book on kindle as soon as i found the book on kindle as soon as i found the book on kindle as soon as i found out it was out out it was out out it was out and i know that there's a lot of work and i know that there's a lot of work and i know that there's a lot of work and research that goes into book covers and research that goes into book covers and research that goes into book covers i saw the book cover i saw the book cover i saw the book cover there is a clock there is a clock there is a clock and there is a panic red and there is a panic red and there is a panic red and my heart literally started racing as and my heart literally started racing as and my heart literally started racing as soon as i saw the cover of the book soon as i saw the cover of the book soon as i saw the cover of the book because that's all right i have had to because that's all right i have had to because that's all right i have had to produce ideas on a deadline produce ideas on a deadline produce ideas on a deadline and all of a sudden i'm like oh my gosh and all of a sudden i'm like oh my gosh and all of a sudden i'm like oh my gosh whoever picked this red color like this whoever picked this red color like this whoever picked this red color like this is i'm i'm i guess it's not a clock it's is i'm i'm i guess it's not a clock it's is i'm i'm i guess it's not a clock it's like a throttle or you know well it's like a throttle or you know well it's like a throttle or you know well it's like a stop it's like a stopwatch like a stop it's like a stopwatch like a stop it's like a stopwatch obviously obviously obviously a stopwatch yeah yeah so i'm like okay a stopwatch yeah yeah so i'm like okay a stopwatch yeah yeah so i'm like okay i'm i'm feeling the anxiety before i i'm i'm feeling the anxiety before i i'm i'm feeling the anxiety before i even started reading even started reading even started reading so sorry so sorry so sorry didn't mean to disrupt you there but i i didn't mean to disrupt you there but i i didn't mean to disrupt you there but i i was i was taken aback when i saw that i was i was taken aback when i saw that i was i was taken aback when i saw that i think we could you know think we could you know think we could you know creativity is a big part of this whole creativity is a big part of this whole creativity is a big part of this whole mix when it comes to telling our story mix when it comes to telling our story mix when it comes to telling our story out there in this culture today i find out there in this culture today i find out there in this culture today i find it i've always thought it interesting it i've always thought it interesting it i've always thought it interesting that you know god i got a phd in that you know god i got a phd in that you know god i got a phd in theology years ago i'll never be a theology years ago i'll never be a theology years ago i'll never be a teacher or anything i don't believe but teacher or anything i don't believe but teacher or anything i don't believe but i just love that world and i love i just love that world and i love i just love that world and i love studying it and and one of the things i studying it and and one of the things i studying it and and one of the things i realized early on was god has a lot of realized early on was god has a lot of realized early on was god has a lot of attributes you know there's a lot of attributes you know there's a lot of attributes you know there's a lot of ways to describe god and a lot of ways to describe god and a lot of ways to describe god and a lot of features about god however it's features about god however it's features about god however it's interesting to me that interesting to me that interesting to me that in the very first verse of the bible he in the very first verse of the bible he in the very first verse of the bible he chose to introduce himself as a creator chose to introduce himself as a creator chose to introduce himself as a creator and so we're made in his image and i and so we're made in his image and i and so we're made in his image and i just think the bar is up there and we just think the bar is up there and we just think the bar is up there and we need to compete we need to step up and

need to compete we need to step up and need to compete we need to step up and raise that bar when it comes to raise that bar when it comes to raise that bar when it comes to creativity because particularly i think creativity because particularly i think creativity because particularly i think if we're going to reach this world we if we're going to reach this world we if we're going to reach this world we live in today this incredibly confused live in today this incredibly confused live in today this incredibly confused distracted culture we're going to need distracted culture we're going to need distracted culture we're going to need to really raise the bar now here's the to really raise the bar now here's the to really raise the bar now here's the reason i wrote there's a lot of great reason i wrote there's a lot of great reason i wrote there's a lot of great creativity books out there i've got a creativity books out there i've got a creativity books out there i've got a library full of them i love reading library full of them i love reading library full of them i love reading about creativity and how people use it about creativity and how people use it about creativity and how people use it but but but one thing i couldn't find that i thought one thing i couldn't find that i thought one thing i couldn't find that i thought was really interesting was a book on how was really interesting was a book on how was really interesting was a book on how to deliver breakthrough ideas when the to deliver breakthrough ideas when the to deliver breakthrough ideas when the clock is ticking when you need ideas the clock is ticking when you need ideas the clock is ticking when you need ideas the most i mean you guys are like me we've most i mean you guys are like me we've most i mean you guys are like me we've always worked in an environment where we always worked in an environment where we always worked in an environment where we had to deliver on a schedule we don't had to deliver on a schedule we don't had to deliver on a schedule we don't have the luxury of sitting on the back have the luxury of sitting on the back have the luxury of sitting on the back porch and doing a watercolor uh or porch and doing a watercolor uh or porch and doing a watercolor uh or writing my diary and writing my diary and writing my diary and you know with no expectation of you know with no expectation of you know with no expectation of publishing or anybody seeing it we publishing or anybody seeing it we publishing or anybody seeing it we actually have to deliver ideas uh you actually have to deliver ideas uh you actually have to deliver ideas uh you know on schedule and so in that world we know on schedule and so in that world we know on schedule and so in that world we have to learn how to harness certain have to learn how to harness certain have to learn how to harness certain techniques that'll create those techniques that'll create those techniques that'll create those breakthrough ideas when we need the most breakthrough ideas when we need the most breakthrough ideas when we need the most and most creative people don't know this and most creative people don't know this and most creative people don't know this they're waiting for this aha moment when they're waiting for this aha moment when they're waiting for this aha moment when the idea gods drop something from heaven the idea gods drop something from heaven the idea gods drop something from heaven on us and we think that's what it's all on us and we think that's what it's all on us and we think that's what it's all about but the truth is there's some about but the truth is there's some about but the truth is there's some really interesting techniques that i've really interesting techniques that i've really interesting techniques that i've used throughout my career i've seen used throughout my career i've seen used throughout my career i've seen other creative people use them i've done other creative people use them i've done other creative people use them i've done some research for the book to figure out some research for the book to figure out some research for the book to figure out how these things work and i think it's how these things work and i think it's how these things work and i think it's just i just really firmly believe i mean just i just really firmly believe i mean just i just really firmly believe i mean i was partners in a commercial company i was partners in a commercial company i was partners in a commercial company years ago and we produced a couple super years ago and we produced a couple super years ago and we produced a couple super bowl commercials and i learned bowl commercials and i learned bowl commercials and i learned i learned early on that the super bowl i learned early on that the super bowl i learned early on that the super bowl is not going to delay their event is not going to delay their event is not going to delay their event because i can't come up with a good idea because i can't come up with a good idea because i can't come up with a good idea for a commercial so for a commercial so for a commercial so we all i've spent my whole career under

we all i've spent my whole career under we all i've spent my whole career under on the clock how do we deliver those on the clock how do we deliver those on the clock how do we deliver those ideas on schedule and that's what i ideas on schedule and that's what i ideas on schedule and that's what i wanted to pour into this book to help wanted to pour into this book to help wanted to pour into this book to help creative people really understand you creative people really understand you creative people really understand you don't have to you don't have to lower don't have to you don't have to lower don't have to you don't have to lower the level of creativity you don't have the level of creativity you don't have the level of creativity you don't have to deliver worse ideas you can deliver to deliver worse ideas you can deliver to deliver worse ideas you can deliver amazing things but still do it on that amazing things but still do it on that amazing things but still do it on that deadline and that's really the most deadline and that's really the most deadline and that's really the most important thing you can possibly learn important thing you can possibly learn important thing you can possibly learn when it comes to creativity so when i when it comes to creativity so when i when it comes to creativity so when i think about this my mind goes because think about this my mind goes because think about this my mind goes because i'm just i'm this way i'm just i'm this way i'm just i'm this way i am i'm pretty creative when i have to i am i'm pretty creative when i have to i am i'm pretty creative when i have to be when it's like okay i got a deadline be when it's like okay i got a deadline be when it's like okay i got a deadline here's the thing that i think a lot of here's the thing that i think a lot of here's the thing that i think a lot of church people i'm speaking on behalf of church people i'm speaking on behalf of church people i'm speaking on behalf of the church right now because every the church right now because every the church right now because every weekend we have a deadline sunday's weekend we have a deadline sunday's weekend we have a deadline sunday's coming right and then you have all these coming right and then you have all these coming right and then you have all these things in between things in between things in between what what's the difference between what what's the difference between what what's the difference between uh finding that sweet spot oh and uh finding that sweet spot oh and uh finding that sweet spot oh and explain the syllabus find that sweet explain the syllabus find that sweet explain the syllabus find that sweet spot where i could be the most creative spot where i could be the most creative spot where i could be the most creative versus procrastinating to get to that versus procrastinating to get to that versus procrastinating to get to that point and then my creative juices kick point and then my creative juices kick point and then my creative juices kick in because i don't know if that's very in because i don't know if that's very in because i don't know if that's very important even though you're right yeah important even though you're right yeah important even though you're right yeah well you're right it's it's interesting well you're right it's it's interesting well you're right it's it's interesting that you're right sundays come with that you're right sundays come with that you're right sundays come with relentless regularity it's just amazing relentless regularity it's just amazing relentless regularity it's just amazing they just keep showing up and whether they just keep showing up and whether they just keep showing up and whether you're a media person or a pastor or a you're a media person or a pastor or a you're a media person or a pastor or a music person music person music person they have to you've got to deliver and they have to you've got to deliver and they have to you've got to deliver and the other interesting thing about the other interesting thing about the other interesting thing about deadlines to me is one one of the books deadlines to me is one one of the books deadlines to me is one one of the books i highlighted in there had the quote uh i highlighted in there had the quote uh i highlighted in there had the quote uh the most important thing you could do is the most important thing you could do is the most important thing you could do is set a deadline and set it early and i do set a deadline and set it early and i do set a deadline and set it early and i do believe in that i don't i'm going to believe in that i don't i'm going to believe in that i don't i'm going to give you a dirty little secret among a give you a dirty little secret among a give you a dirty little secret among a lot of creative people and that is we lot of creative people and that is we lot of creative people and that is we love deadlines because really deadlines love deadlines because really deadlines love deadlines because really deadlines give us boundaries they give us a map give us boundaries they give us a map give us boundaries they give us a map they let us chart the course so suddenly

they let us chart the course so suddenly they let us chart the course so suddenly when i have a deadline i can see okay when i have a deadline i can see okay when i have a deadline i can see okay here's when i have to do my research here's when i have to do my research here's when i have to do my research here's what i have to really pour the here's what i have to really pour the here's what i have to really pour the effort into this here's what i have to effort into this here's what i have to effort into this here's what i have to deliver and even with that i'm going to deliver and even with that i'm going to deliver and even with that i'm going to say you'll identify with this jason even say you'll identify with this jason even say you'll identify with this jason even with that with that with that i don't even start a project till i see i don't even start a project till i see i don't even start a project till i see the deadline looming in the distance i the deadline looming in the distance i the deadline looming in the distance i mean i i don't something about it maybe mean i i don't something about it maybe mean i i don't something about it maybe i'm just supremely lazy but i don't even i'm just supremely lazy but i don't even i'm just supremely lazy but i don't even get going until i see i start getting get going until i see i start getting get going until i see i start getting serious i i in the book i talk about serious i i in the book i talk about serious i i in the book i talk about talking to airline pilots who told me talking to airline pilots who told me talking to airline pilots who told me you know when they start seeing the end you know when they start seeing the end you know when they start seeing the end of that runway coming up on a takeoff of that runway coming up on a takeoff of that runway coming up on a takeoff that gets their blood pumping it gets that gets their blood pumping it gets that gets their blood pumping it gets their adrenaline going they get really their adrenaline going they get really their adrenaline going they get really focused and serious and i'm there i'm focused and serious and i'm there i'm focused and serious and i'm there i'm the same way creatively when i see that the same way creatively when i see that the same way creatively when i see that deadline looming out there uh i get deadline looming out there uh i get deadline looming out there uh i get really really serious so i think the key really really serious so i think the key really really serious so i think the key thing is learn to use deadlines in your thing is learn to use deadlines in your thing is learn to use deadlines in your favor don't be afraid of them favor don't be afraid of them favor don't be afraid of them don't don't fear them because they i don't don't fear them because they i don't don't fear them because they i think there's a lot of people that think there's a lot of people that think there's a lot of people that deadlines just just the idea deadlines just just the idea deadlines just just the idea that i have a deadline it just they that i have a deadline it just they that i have a deadline it just they freeze up we need to learn to make your freeze up we need to learn to make your freeze up we need to learn to make your deadline a deadline your friend so then deadline a deadline your friend so then deadline a deadline your friend so then you could use it to really jack up your you could use it to really jack up your you could use it to really jack up your creativity to a whole nother level creativity to a whole nother level creativity to a whole nother level i want to take a moment to thank you for i want to take a moment to thank you for i want to take a moment to thank you for tuning in to the missional marketing tuning in to the missional marketing tuning in to the missional marketing podcast it's always our goal to help you podcast it's always our goal to help you podcast it's always our goal to help you as a church leader leverage your as a church leader leverage your as a church leader leverage your communications and digital media communications and digital media communications and digital media resources to reach more people for jesus resources to reach more people for jesus resources to reach more people for jesus one of the ways that we help churches do one of the ways that we help churches do one of the ways that we help churches do that is through creating social media that is through creating social media that is through creating social media content from your sunday sermon videos content from your sunday sermon videos content from your sunday sermon videos specifically what we can do for you is specifically what we can do for you is specifically what we can do for you is to create short sermon snippets from 30 to create short sermon snippets from 30 to create short sermon snippets from 30 seconds long to five minutes long seconds long to five minutes long seconds long to five minutes long capturing those mic drop moments that

capturing those mic drop moments that capturing those mic drop moments that you really want people to remember we you really want people to remember we you really want people to remember we edit the videos add captions add your edit the videos add captions add your edit the videos add captions add your church branding and then you or we post church branding and then you or we post church branding and then you or we post them to your social media channels them to your social media channels them to your social media channels as a pastor i always love to see my as a pastor i always love to see my as a pastor i always love to see my sermon content live on beyond the sermon content live on beyond the sermon content live on beyond the sundays and i know that's what you value sundays and i know that's what you value sundays and i know that's what you value for your sermons too for your sermons too for your sermons too we offer this service as a monthly we offer this service as a monthly we offer this service as a monthly subscription but we've got a six week subscription but we've got a six week subscription but we've got a six week trial that gives you a chance to see how trial that gives you a chance to see how trial that gives you a chance to see how it works if you'd like more information it works if you'd like more information it works if you'd like more information just shoot me an email at b blair just shoot me an email at b blair just shoot me an email at b blair admissional missionalmarketing.com i'd admissional missionalmarketing.com i'd admissional missionalmarketing.com i'd be glad to meet with you explain the be glad to meet with you explain the be glad to meet with you explain the process and answer any questions that process and answer any questions that process and answer any questions that you have once again thanks for tuning in you have once again thanks for tuning in you have once again thanks for tuning in to our podcast let's get back to the to our podcast let's get back to the to our podcast let's get back to the interview yeah i think i think it's i i interview yeah i think i think it's i i interview yeah i think i think it's i i relate to that because if i'm if i know relate to that because if i'm if i know relate to that because if i'm if i know i'll i'm gonna try to get this done but i'll i'm gonna try to get this done but i'll i'm gonna try to get this done but i really have another week i might use i really have another week i might use i really have another week i might use half my my brain half my my brain half my my brain yeah but to your point if i'm like if yeah but to your point if i'm like if yeah but to your point if i'm like if this thing has got to go out now yeah this thing has got to go out now yeah this thing has got to go out now yeah i'm fully engaged everything is up man i'm fully engaged everything is up man i'm fully engaged everything is up man one of the things one i don't mean erupt one of the things one i don't mean erupt one of the things one i don't mean erupt i'm sorry you get me excited here uh one i'm sorry you get me excited here uh one i'm sorry you get me excited here uh one of the things i talk about in the book of the things i talk about in the book of the things i talk about in the book is a chapter called hold back the flood is a chapter called hold back the flood is a chapter called hold back the flood and i really and the technique there is and i really and the technique there is and i really and the technique there is i wait as long when it comes to writing i wait as long when it comes to writing i wait as long when it comes to writing for instance i wait as long as i for instance i wait as long as i for instance i wait as long as i possibly can before i actually start possibly can before i actually start possibly can before i actually start writing say i have a television script writing say i have a television script writing say i have a television script or a commercial script or something i or a commercial script or something i or a commercial script or something i even though i'm thinking okay this today even though i'm thinking okay this today even though i'm thinking okay this today i've got an open day let me let me work i've got an open day let me let me work i've got an open day let me let me work on that i'll hold it i'll let the on that i'll hold it i'll let the on that i'll hold it i'll let the thoughts bang around in my head i'll do thoughts bang around in my head i'll do thoughts bang around in my head i'll do more research i'll read a little about more research i'll read a little about more research i'll read a little about it i'll think about it reflect on it and it i'll think about it reflect on it and it i'll think about it reflect on it and i finally get to a point where i can't i finally get to a point where i can't i finally get to a point where i can't hold it in any longer and i sit down at hold it in any longer and i sit down at hold it in any longer and i sit down at the laptop and it just pours out of me i

the laptop and it just pours out of me i the laptop and it just pours out of me i honestly believe honestly believe honestly believe people that have writer's block people that have writer's block people that have writer's block in most cases have it because they just in most cases have it because they just in most cases have it because they just start the project too soon they don't start the project too soon they don't start the project too soon they don't have anything to put down yet and so i have anything to put down yet and so i have anything to put down yet and so i really believe that holding off that's really believe that holding off that's really believe that holding off that's another part of the deadline even though another part of the deadline even though another part of the deadline even though it can get scary i try to hold off as it can get scary i try to hold off as it can get scary i try to hold off as long as i can and then when i sit down i long as i can and then when i sit down i long as i can and then when i sit down i just find just find just find i don't i i don't really call myself a i don't i i don't really call myself a i don't i i don't really call myself a writer i call myself a rewriter i just writer i call myself a rewriter i just writer i call myself a rewriter i just get it all let it all flow out get it get it all let it all flow out get it get it all let it all flow out get it down on the page then i'll go back and down on the page then i'll go back and down on the page then i'll go back and reshape it and edit it and change it uh reshape it and edit it and change it uh reshape it and edit it and change it uh very often i'll write two books instead very often i'll write two books instead very often i'll write two books instead of one and just have to throw out half of one and just have to throw out half of one and just have to throw out half of it but that really does help to hold of it but that really does help to hold of it but that really does help to hold back as long as you can back as long as you can back as long as you can what do you think this is gonna this what do you think this is gonna this what do you think this is gonna this book so i we always encourage everybody book so i we always encourage everybody book so i we always encourage everybody we bring on the on the podcast you know we bring on the on the podcast you know we bring on the on the podcast you know especially this kind of a book get the especially this kind of a book get the especially this kind of a book get the book and read the book book and read the book book and read the book what just give us a couple of points on what just give us a couple of points on what just give us a couple of points on like how is this going to help the the like how is this going to help the the like how is this going to help the the communication director who literally has communication director who literally has communication director who literally has tons of deadlines tons of deadlines tons of deadlines i mean throughout or pastors for that i mean throughout or pastors for that i mean throughout or pastors for that matter how's this going to help them matter how's this going to help them matter how's this going to help them how's it gonna equip them how's it gonna equip them how's it gonna equip them i think it'll reduce the terror i think i think it'll reduce the terror i think i think it'll reduce the terror i think it'll reduce the the chaos i i one one it'll reduce the the chaos i i one one it'll reduce the the chaos i i one one of the things i'm encouraging people to of the things i'm encouraging people to of the things i'm encouraging people to do is get a copy of the book for all of do is get a copy of the book for all of do is get a copy of the book for all of your team if you're a communications your team if you're a communications your team if you're a communications director or a creative director media director or a creative director media director or a creative director media director at your church get a copy for director at your church get a copy for director at your church get a copy for your team and treat it like a small your team and treat it like a small your team and treat it like a small group let's just sit down and do little group let's just sit down and do little group let's just sit down and do little classes in it um because these are classes in it um because these are classes in it um because these are techniques that will help everybody do techniques that will help everybody do techniques that will help everybody do better i mean in every church better i mean in every church better i mean in every church everybody's in a little different place everybody's in a little different place everybody's in a little different place creatively and and first of all let me creatively and and first of all let me creatively and and first of all let me say this because i think it's really say this because i think it's really say this because i think it's really important important important there is absolutely you know when i

there is absolutely you know when i there is absolutely you know when i speak like this and it's conferences and speak like this and it's conferences and speak like this and it's conferences and events i'll always get a group of people events i'll always get a group of people events i'll always get a group of people that come up to me later and say well that come up to me later and say well that come up to me later and say well you know phil that's great but i was you know phil that's great but i was you know phil that's great but i was never born creative i'm just not a never born creative i'm just not a never born creative i'm just not a creative person let me tell you creative person let me tell you creative person let me tell you something and for everybody listening to something and for everybody listening to something and for everybody listening to this you need to hear this there is no this you need to hear this there is no this you need to hear this there is no research at all that says some people research at all that says some people research at all that says some people are born creative and some people aren't are born creative and some people aren't are born creative and some people aren't everybody is born creative i mean put a everybody is born creative i mean put a everybody is born creative i mean put a bunch of toddlers together in a room bunch of toddlers together in a room bunch of toddlers together in a room they're all wildly creative but they're all wildly creative but they're all wildly creative but it's like a muscle if we don't use it we it's like a muscle if we don't use it we it's like a muscle if we don't use it we start to lose it and so we all have the start to lose it and so we all have the start to lose it and so we all have the capacity to be more creative so capacity to be more creative so capacity to be more creative so everybody on your team at your church everybody on your team at your church everybody on your team at your church ministry non-profit whatever ministry non-profit whatever ministry non-profit whatever has the capacity to be more creative has the capacity to be more creative has the capacity to be more creative they just need some tools in their hand they just need some tools in their hand they just need some tools in their hand to bring it out when they need it the to bring it out when they need it the to bring it out when they need it the most and that's what the book is about most and that's what the book is about most and that's what the book is about it's really it's really it's really pr very you know it's how to get the pr very you know it's how to get the pr very you know it's how to get the right mindset how to get organized and right mindset how to get organized and right mindset how to get organized and then there's very practical steps you then there's very practical steps you then there's very practical steps you can take that will unlock some things can take that will unlock some things can take that will unlock some things you know the idea so they'll come when you know the idea so they'll come when you know the idea so they'll come when you need them the most when that you need them the most when that you need them the most when that pressure is on and like you say pressure is on and like you say pressure is on and like you say it's relentless you know sunday after it's relentless you know sunday after it's relentless you know sunday after sunday after sunday and then you have sunday after sunday and then you have sunday after sunday and then you have other things you've got you're doing other things you've got you're doing other things you've got you're doing social media all week you're doing social media all week you're doing social media all week you're doing special events the christmas show the special events the christmas show the special events the christmas show the easter show whatever and so i just easter show whatever and so i just easter show whatever and so i just believe that anything you can do that believe that anything you can do that believe that anything you can do that will help you get control of creativity will help you get control of creativity will help you get control of creativity and of course you can't ever truly and of course you can't ever truly and of course you can't ever truly control creativity but let so you can control creativity but let so you can control creativity but let so you can you need to master creativity so it you need to master creativity so it you need to master creativity so it doesn't master you if you can do that doesn't master you if you can do that doesn't master you if you can do that then i think the whole atmosphere the then i think the whole atmosphere the then i think the whole atmosphere the culture changes in fact i have a chapter culture changes in fact i have a chapter culture changes in fact i have a chapter in the book on how to create a creative in the book on how to create a creative in the book on how to create a creative culture i'm just a really big believer culture i'm just a really big believer culture i'm just a really big believer that we can do that and it can change

that we can do that and it can change that we can do that and it can change the attitude of everybody on the team the attitude of everybody on the team the attitude of everybody on the team so i gotta ask how well one more part so i gotta ask how well one more part so i gotta ask how well one more part that i'll pass through how long did it that i'll pass through how long did it that i'll pass through how long did it take you to write the book take you to write the book take you to write the book you know oddly enough not long because you know oddly enough not long because you know oddly enough not long because i've lived this my whole life uh these i've lived this my whole life uh these i've lived this my whole life uh these are things that i've known and i've are things that i've known and i've are things that i've known and i've blogged about some of it you know and i blogged about some of it you know and i blogged about some of it you know and i so what i started doing is pulling the so what i started doing is pulling the so what i started doing is pulling the blogs together and some teachings that blogs together and some teachings that blogs together and some teachings that i'd done and i started to get a shape i'd done and i started to get a shape i'd done and i started to get a shape for the book and see what it was about for the book and see what it was about for the book and see what it was about but what what probably took the longest but what what probably took the longest but what what probably took the longest is i wanted to do some research for is i wanted to do some research for is i wanted to do some research for instance dreaming i've got a probably instance dreaming i've got a probably instance dreaming i've got a probably the longest chapter in the book is on the longest chapter in the book is on the longest chapter in the book is on creativity and dreaming you know do we creativity and dreaming you know do we creativity and dreaming you know do we really good i get ideas uh when we're really good i get ideas uh when we're really good i get ideas uh when we're dreaming you know throughout the bible dreaming you know throughout the bible dreaming you know throughout the bible through other ancient books there's a through other ancient books there's a through other ancient books there's a lot of a lot of references to people lot of a lot of references to people lot of a lot of references to people getting amazing ideas or messages and getting amazing ideas or messages and getting amazing ideas or messages and their dreams it doesn't work that way their dreams it doesn't work that way their dreams it doesn't work that way for me but i do make connections in my for me but i do make connections in my for me but i do make connections in my dreams that start to open up ideas that dreams that start to open up ideas that dreams that start to open up ideas that i'd never thought about in my conscious i'd never thought about in my conscious i'd never thought about in my conscious mind so i i talk a little bit about the mind so i i talk a little bit about the mind so i i talk a little bit about the research that supports that some ideas research that supports that some ideas research that supports that some ideas for how to make that happen more often for how to make that happen more often for how to make that happen more often and so i wanted to do a lot of research and so i wanted to do a lot of research and so i wanted to do a lot of research because there's some interesting because there's some interesting because there's some interesting interesting stuff in fact guys like interesting stuff in fact guys like interesting stuff in fact guys like thomas edison artist salvador dali they thomas edison artist salvador dali they thomas edison artist salvador dali they would actually would actually would actually they studied the power of napping they studied the power of napping they studied the power of napping because really the the most interesting because really the the most interesting because really the the most interesting time to have dreams is in that that time to have dreams is in that that time to have dreams is in that that little murky area right as you're little murky area right as you're little murky area right as you're falling asleep or right as you're waking falling asleep or right as you're waking falling asleep or right as you're waking up and they would actually sit in a up and they would actually sit in a up and they would actually sit in a chair with a couple ball bearings in chair with a couple ball bearings in chair with a couple ball bearings in their hand over a metal plate and they their hand over a metal plate and they their hand over a metal plate and they would sit there and nod off in a nap and would sit there and nod off in a nap and would sit there and nod off in a nap and the minute they relax so much they let the minute they relax so much they let the minute they relax so much they let the balls fall down they would hit that

the balls fall down they would hit that the balls fall down they would hit that plate and it would jolt them back awake plate and it would jolt them back awake plate and it would jolt them back awake and they would make notes about what and they would make notes about what and they would make notes about what were they dreaming during that little were they dreaming during that little were they dreaming during that little just fraction of a moment's time and so just fraction of a moment's time and so just fraction of a moment's time and so there's some interesting stories out there's some interesting stories out there's some interesting stories out there of what people have done to try to there of what people have done to try to there of what people have done to try to unlock the power of dreams and i just unlock the power of dreams and i just unlock the power of dreams and i just think uh that was probably the most think uh that was probably the most think uh that was probably the most fascinating part of the book fascinating part of the book fascinating part of the book it's interesting well i'm gonna kind of it's interesting well i'm gonna kind of it's interesting well i'm gonna kind of revert back to something that you were revert back to something that you were revert back to something that you were talking about before jason asked asked talking about before jason asked asked talking about before jason asked asked his last question you were talking about his last question you were talking about his last question you were talking about creating a culture of creativity and creating a culture of creativity and creating a culture of creativity and i'll tell you that one of the things i'll tell you that one of the things i'll tell you that one of the things that i noted from the book although that i noted from the book although that i noted from the book although the title of the book is ideas on a the title of the book is ideas on a the title of the book is ideas on a deadline deadline deadline it could have it could have it could have simply simply simply been something like ideas like really been something like ideas like really been something like ideas like really the book as a whole the book as a whole the book as a whole if i were to sum it up to someone is to if i were to sum it up to someone is to if i were to sum it up to someone is to say say say it's a book with a whole lot of it's a book with a whole lot of it's a book with a whole lot of practical practical practical tips and tools tips and tools tips and tools that you can use that you can use that you can use to basically discipline your life in a to basically discipline your life in a to basically discipline your life in a way that you way that you way that you are creative when you need to be are creative when you need to be are creative when you need to be creative you know i've been still i was creative you know i've been still i was creative you know i've been still i was i was the creative arts director for a i was the creative arts director for a i was the creative arts director for a church in the toronto area for about 10 church in the toronto area for about 10 church in the toronto area for about 10 years and i can still remember my senior years and i can still remember my senior years and i can still remember my senior pastor saying to me one time on your pastor saying to me one time on your pastor saying to me one time on your mark get set mark get set mark get set write something funny you know like write something funny you know like write something funny you know like no pressure there right but no pressure there right but no pressure there right but as i read through really more than as i read through really more than as i read through really more than probably the second half of the book it probably the second half of the book it probably the second half of the book it really starts getting into things like really starts getting into things like really starts getting into things like you know developing habits and patterns you know developing habits and patterns you know developing habits and patterns and foundational things in your life so and foundational things in your life so and foundational things in your life so that when you are in a situation where that when you are in a situation where that when you are in a situation where you need to pull from the creative pool you need to pull from the creative pool you need to pull from the creative pool of your mind your life experience you're of your mind your life experience you're of your mind your life experience you're prepared for that and i thought that was

prepared for that and i thought that was prepared for that and i thought that was really i thought that was really really really i thought that was really really really i thought that was really really fascinating i've seen it about it in fascinating i've seen it about it in fascinating i've seen it about it in terms of you know my wife and i we're terms of you know my wife and i we're terms of you know my wife and i we're building a home building a home building a home and and and we have on on the home that we're we have on on the home that we're we have on on the home that we're building we've extended the patio pretty building we've extended the patio pretty building we've extended the patio pretty significantly we've got this right now significantly we've got this right now significantly we've got this right now the home is about 60 done we have this the home is about 60 done we have this the home is about 60 done we have this great big giant concrete slab in the great big giant concrete slab in the great big giant concrete slab in the backyard we really have no idea what backyard we really have no idea what backyard we really have no idea what we're going to put on it what the we're going to put on it what the we're going to put on it what the furniture is going to look like what the furniture is going to look like what the furniture is going to look like what the purple will look like maybe build a purple will look like maybe build a purple will look like maybe build a little outdoor kitchen we really don't little outdoor kitchen we really don't little outdoor kitchen we really don't know because we haven't gotten to the know because we haven't gotten to the know because we haven't gotten to the place where we can exercise that place where we can exercise that place where we can exercise that creativity but we've got the foundation creativity but we've got the foundation creativity but we've got the foundation there the foundation is there and since there the foundation is there and since there the foundation is there and since the foundation is there we can actually the foundation is there we can actually the foundation is there we can actually do something do something do something on it once we get to that place and so on it once we get to that place and so on it once we get to that place and so much of what you you share in the book much of what you you share in the book much of what you you share in the book is really just building these routines is really just building these routines is really just building these routines and these rhythms and these disciplines and these rhythms and these disciplines and these rhythms and these disciplines in your life to in your life to in your life to capitalize on the fact that you are a capitalize on the fact that you are a capitalize on the fact that you are a creative person so that when it's time creative person so that when it's time creative person so that when it's time to pull from the bag of tricks you're to pull from the bag of tricks you're to pull from the bag of tricks you're ready to do that yeah so i do have a ready to do that yeah so i do have a ready to do that yeah so i do have a question coming out of that statement question coming out of that statement question coming out of that statement as you you said that a lot of what you as you you said that a lot of what you as you you said that a lot of what you were writing down were things that you were writing down were things that you were writing down were things that you were just kind of looking at your own were just kind of looking at your own were just kind of looking at your own personal patterns and the way that you personal patterns and the way that you personal patterns and the way that you have found yourself to exercise have found yourself to exercise have found yourself to exercise creativity over the years um as you as creativity over the years um as you as creativity over the years um as you as you've been ex you know being a creative you've been ex you know being a creative you've been ex you know being a creative person were there any things that you person were there any things that you person were there any things that you discovered as you were writing that you discovered as you were writing that you discovered as you were writing that you were not really conscious of in terms of were not really conscious of in terms of were not really conscious of in terms of oh i've been doing this all along and i oh i've been doing this all along and i oh i've been doing this all along and i didn't even realize i was doing this didn't even realize i was doing this didn't even realize i was doing this until i actually started writing the until i actually started writing the until i actually started writing the book and i realized there are some book and i realized there are some book and i realized there are some disciplines and some things that i've disciplines and some things that i've disciplines and some things that i've developed that helped me in my

developed that helped me in my developed that helped me in my creativity and i didn't even realize it creativity and i didn't even realize it creativity and i didn't even realize it well yeah uh one of the chapters is on well yeah uh one of the chapters is on well yeah uh one of the chapters is on uh you know the power of a good walk one uh you know the power of a good walk one uh you know the power of a good walk one of the things that i've done for years of the things that i've done for years of the things that i've done for years is love to walk i was a runner in high is love to walk i was a runner in high is love to walk i was a runner in high school and um i just we live a block school and um i just we live a block school and um i just we live a block from the the uh the mountains here in from the the uh the mountains here in from the the uh the mountains here in los angeles and um los angeles and um los angeles and um we just my wife kathleen and i very we just my wife kathleen and i very we just my wife kathleen and i very often will just take the dog up and often will just take the dog up and often will just take the dog up and we'll go walking up through the trails we'll go walking up through the trails we'll go walking up through the trails and the mountains up behind our house and the mountains up behind our house and the mountains up behind our house and i just love that and and what's and i just love that and and what's and i just love that and and what's interesting was i i just did it without interesting was i i just did it without interesting was i i just did it without thinking i i didn't realize it was a thinking i i didn't realize it was a thinking i i didn't realize it was a great deal but i started studying it and great deal but i started studying it and great deal but i started studying it and i and i discovered from i and i discovered from i and i discovered from theologians like soren kierkegaard to theologians like soren kierkegaard to theologians like soren kierkegaard to beethoven to all kinds of people beethoven to all kinds of people beethoven to all kinds of people throughout history rousseau all these throughout history rousseau all these throughout history rousseau all these people love to walk they just love to people love to walk they just love to people love to walk they just love to walk kierkegaard is a great example he walk kierkegaard is a great example he walk kierkegaard is a great example he would get up in the morning and write would get up in the morning and write would get up in the morning and write like crazy and then spend the afternoon like crazy and then spend the afternoon like crazy and then spend the afternoon walking and reflecting on what he'd been walking and reflecting on what he'd been walking and reflecting on what he'd been writing writing writing charles dickens i was in london a few charles dickens i was in london a few charles dickens i was in london a few years ago and i picked up a little book years ago and i picked up a little book years ago and i picked up a little book called night walks that charles dickens called night walks that charles dickens called night walks that charles dickens had written and he apparently went had written and he apparently went had written and he apparently went through a period of insomnia quite a through a period of insomnia quite a through a period of insomnia quite a long period of insomnia when he was long period of insomnia when he was long period of insomnia when he was writing and of course writing and of course writing and of course dickens is one of the most prolific dickens is one of the most prolific dickens is one of the most prolific authors in history the volume of books authors in history the volume of books authors in history the volume of books he wrote was remarkable but he had this he wrote was remarkable but he had this he wrote was remarkable but he had this period of insomnia and he would get up period of insomnia and he would get up period of insomnia and he would get up in the middle of the night and go in the middle of the night and go in the middle of the night and go walking around the streets of downtown walking around the streets of downtown walking around the streets of downtown london and looking back a lot of london and looking back a lot of london and looking back a lot of literary critics and historians will say literary critics and historians will say literary critics and historians will say that many of his most amazing characters that many of his most amazing characters that many of his most amazing characters that he created are people he probably that he created are people he probably that he created are people he probably saw out on the streets in the middle of saw out on the streets in the middle of saw out on the streets in the middle of the night drunk people you know people the night drunk people you know people the night drunk people you know people coming home late workers all kind of

coming home late workers all kind of coming home late workers all kind of people in the middle of the night that people in the middle of the night that people in the middle of the night that he saw so i've always been a big time he saw so i've always been a big time he saw so i've always been a big time walker and i i just have not realized walker and i i just have not realized walker and i i just have not realized until i wrote the book how many other until i wrote the book how many other until i wrote the book how many other people people people benefit from walking and here's an benefit from walking and here's an benefit from walking and here's an interesting thing one of the things i interesting thing one of the things i interesting thing one of the things i discovered research indicates that the discovered research indicates that the discovered research indicates that the great thing about walking is when you do great thing about walking is when you do great thing about walking is when you do it in the country it in the country it in the country you're it's you're looking at what's you're it's you're looking at what's you're it's you're looking at what's called a soft view you're seeing trees called a soft view you're seeing trees called a soft view you're seeing trees and shrubs and grass and that kind of and shrubs and grass and that kind of and shrubs and grass and that kind of you're not focusing on anything you're you're not focusing on anything you're you're not focusing on anything you're not concentrating on anything it allows not concentrating on anything it allows not concentrating on anything it allows your mind to really wander and that's your mind to really wander and that's your mind to really wander and that's when the creative sparks start to happen when the creative sparks start to happen when the creative sparks start to happen by contrast if you're in the city my by contrast if you're in the city my by contrast if you're in the city my daughter bailey lives in ma in brooklyn daughter bailey lives in ma in brooklyn daughter bailey lives in ma in brooklyn in new york she's a musician and i'll go in new york she's a musician and i'll go in new york she's a musician and i'll go visit bailey and we'll go walking all visit bailey and we'll go walking all visit bailey and we'll go walking all over new york over new york over new york but it's a different environment for me but it's a different environment for me but it's a different environment for me it's buildings it's cops in the street it's buildings it's cops in the street it's buildings it's cops in the street it's tourists it's all kind of stuff it's tourists it's all kind of stuff it's tourists it's all kind of stuff shop windows that i want to look in and shop windows that i want to look in and shop windows that i want to look in and i'm making i'm making i'm making i'm focusing too much there and i don't i'm focusing too much there and i don't i'm focusing too much there and i don't have those creative ideas in that have those creative ideas in that have those creative ideas in that environment so you need to get to a environment so you need to get to a environment so you need to get to a place where you and and maybe if bailey place where you and and maybe if bailey place where you and and maybe if bailey would do it because she lives there would do it because she lives there would do it because she lives there maybe she doesn't focus on all that maybe she doesn't focus on all that maybe she doesn't focus on all that stuff and she could let her mind wander stuff and she could let her mind wander stuff and she could let her mind wander there too so the point is find a place there too so the point is find a place there too so the point is find a place where you can walk where you can really where you can walk where you can really where you can walk where you can really let your mind wander and not concentrate let your mind wander and not concentrate let your mind wander and not concentrate don't be thinking about the project that don't be thinking about the project that don't be thinking about the project that failed don't be consciously thinking failed don't be consciously thinking failed don't be consciously thinking about this or that or that you know that about this or that or that you know that about this or that or that you know that boyfriend that jilted you whatever just boyfriend that jilted you whatever just boyfriend that jilted you whatever just let your mind wander and reflect that's let your mind wander and reflect that's let your mind wander and reflect that's when the sparks start happening when when the sparks start happening when when the sparks start happening when you're out there taking a walk it's it's you're out there taking a walk it's it's you're out there taking a walk it's it's a i'll tell you if you study walking a i'll tell you if you study walking a i'll tell you if you study walking throughout history writers like rebecca throughout history writers like rebecca throughout history writers like rebecca soldit and others have written a lot of soldit and others have written a lot of soldit and others have written a lot of books about walking it's a it's one of

books about walking it's a it's one of books about walking it's a it's one of the most powerful tools creative people the most powerful tools creative people the most powerful tools creative people have ever used have ever used have ever used so so uh i love that i think we should so so uh i love that i think we should so so uh i love that i think we should just let's do it afterwards just let's do it afterwards just let's do it afterwards let's just press pause and go take a let's just press pause and go take a let's just press pause and go take a walk we'll go for a walk walk we'll go for a walk walk we'll go for a walk see you in an hour if we do that right see you in an hour if we do that right see you in an hour if we do that right now maybe the end of the podcast will be now maybe the end of the podcast will be now maybe the end of the podcast will be better than the first half of the vlog better than the first half of the vlog better than the first half of the vlog who knows who knows who knows so i have a question for you though so i have a question for you though so i have a question for you though how can digital tools how can digital tools how can digital tools support somebody when it comes to the support somebody when it comes to the support somebody when it comes to the creative process what have you found creative process what have you found creative process what have you found anything that anything that anything that i mean you know stepping aside taking a i mean you know stepping aside taking a i mean you know stepping aside taking a nap going on a walk that's really good nap going on a walk that's really good nap going on a walk that's really good for your body for your for your mind and for your body for your for your mind and for your body for your for your mind and for your soul for creative juices how for your soul for creative juices how for your soul for creative juices how does technology play a part in this does technology play a part in this does technology play a part in this technology is an important part you know technology is an important part you know technology is an important part you know early in the book when i talk about the early in the book when i talk about the early in the book when i talk about the mindset we really do have to get mindset we really do have to get mindset we really do have to get organized one of the great challenges organized one of the great challenges organized one of the great challenges creative people face is we're busy we do creative people face is we're busy we do creative people face is we're busy we do a lot of stuff and we have to get you a lot of stuff and we have to get you a lot of stuff and we have to get you know i'm not i'm not big on the cult of know i'm not i'm not big on the cult of know i'm not i'm not big on the cult of productivity um i i love being productivity um i i love being productivity um i i love being productive i've got four or five you productive i've got four or five you productive i've got four or five you know to-do list apps task managers on my know to-do list apps task managers on my know to-do list apps task managers on my computer i've i even invented i created computer i've i even invented i created computer i've i even invented i created a print notebook uh called the uh the a print notebook uh called the uh the a print notebook uh called the uh the ultimate creative planner a number of ultimate creative planner a number of ultimate creative planner a number of years ago because i couldn't find the years ago because i couldn't find the years ago because i couldn't find the right print notebook i wanted and i just right print notebook i wanted and i just right print notebook i wanted and i just created it and so i'm big on that created it and so i'm big on that created it and so i'm big on that however there are people that get way however there are people that get way however there are people that get way way way too much into the whole way way too much into the whole way way too much into the whole productivity thing i work early in my productivity thing i work early in my productivity thing i work early in my career i worked with a guy who literally career i worked with a guy who literally career i worked with a guy who literally spent the first two hours of every day spent the first two hours of every day spent the first two hours of every day just putting his two to-do lists just putting his two to-do lists just putting his two to-do lists together he never actually accomplished together he never actually accomplished together he never actually accomplished anything but he had an amazing to-do anything but he had an amazing to-do anything but he had an amazing to-do list

list list and i've learned that some people can be and i've learned that some people can be and i've learned that some people can be so productive it doesn't leave room for so productive it doesn't leave room for so productive it doesn't leave room for creativity so the way i use apps i use creativity so the way i use apps i use creativity so the way i use apps i use you know i use an app called things for you know i use an app called things for you know i use an app called things for instance by a company called cultured instance by a company called cultured instance by a company called cultured code and you can use other things code and you can use other things code and you can use other things microsoft to do microsoft to do microsoft to do todoist there's all kind of to do apps todoist there's all kind of to do apps todoist there's all kind of to do apps out there i use mine as more of an idea out there i use mine as more of an idea out there i use mine as more of an idea vault when i get an idea about something vault when i get an idea about something vault when i get an idea about something i'll throw it in there because as da you i'll throw it in there because as da you i'll throw it in there because as da you know know know a lot of experts have said it's a lot of experts have said it's a lot of experts have said it's the key thing with productivity is you the key thing with productivity is you the key thing with productivity is you got to get it out of your head and get got to get it out of your head and get got to get it out of your head and get it on paper you want to free up your it on paper you want to free up your it on paper you want to free up your brain to think about what's important brain to think about what's important brain to think about what's important not that list of things you're supposed not that list of things you're supposed not that list of things you're supposed to be doing tomorrow so we start by to be doing tomorrow so we start by to be doing tomorrow so we start by getting organized and if we can get getting organized and if we can get getting organized and if we can get organized it starts to create margin it organized it starts to create margin it organized it starts to create margin it gives us a little freedom a little time gives us a little freedom a little time gives us a little freedom a little time out there that helps us start devoting out there that helps us start devoting out there that helps us start devoting to creative work i just think many to creative work i just think many to creative work i just think many people aren't creative because they people aren't creative because they people aren't creative because they don't they have a scheduled time to be don't they have a scheduled time to be don't they have a scheduled time to be created and you have to schedule that created and you have to schedule that created and you have to schedule that just like you do something else so just like you do something else so just like you do something else so digital tools are powerful for that i digital tools are powerful for that i digital tools are powerful for that i also think you know writing things also think you know writing things also think you know writing things different tools for writing i use different tools for writing i use different tools for writing i use scrivener in my my blogging in my book scrivener in my my blogging in my book scrivener in my my blogging in my book writing it's a powerful writing tool writing it's a powerful writing tool writing it's a powerful writing tool that take it's just so much easier than that take it's just so much easier than that take it's just so much easier than doing in a word or doing it in pages it doing in a word or doing it in pages it doing in a word or doing it in pages it just really helps me reshape and form just really helps me reshape and form just really helps me reshape and form things and jot it down fast there's so things and jot it down fast there's so things and jot it down fast there's so many tools like that that if we can many tools like that that if we can many tools like that that if we can learn to master those they really do learn to master those they really do learn to master those they really do make a difference but most of it makes make a difference but most of it makes make a difference but most of it makes the difference in time saving which the difference in time saving which the difference in time saving which leaves me more time to reflect and by leaves me more time to reflect and by leaves me more time to reflect and by the way on that subject the way on that subject the way on that subject most of the best ideas i've ever had most of the best ideas i've ever had most of the best ideas i've ever had have come in moments when i was bored

have come in moments when i was bored have come in moments when i was bored out of my mind out of my mind out of my mind and i think that if we can learn to and i think that if we can learn to and i think that if we can learn to harness those moments you know we have harness those moments you know we have harness those moments you know we have this thing that we carry around called a this thing that we carry around called a this thing that we carry around called a phone phone phone and when we're in line at the grocery and when we're in line at the grocery and when we're in line at the grocery store or when we're waiting at the store or when we're waiting at the store or when we're waiting at the doctor's office what do we do we pull doctor's office what do we do we pull doctor's office what do we do we pull this thing out shirt you know waiting this thing out shirt you know waiting this thing out shirt you know waiting for church to start we pull this thing for church to start we pull this thing for church to start we pull this thing out and start flipping through instagram out and start flipping through instagram out and start flipping through instagram or looking at our email the truth is in or looking at our email the truth is in or looking at our email the truth is in those moments if we could just stop and those moments if we could just stop and those moments if we could just stop and reflect think look around reflect think look around reflect think look around put down the phone put down the phone put down the phone you'd be amazed that the ideas will you'd be amazed that the ideas will you'd be amazed that the ideas will suddenly that will suddenly start suddenly that will suddenly start suddenly that will suddenly start percolating i just think that percolating i just think that percolating i just think that waiting for church services to start waiting for church services to start waiting for church services to start waiting for a movie to start waiting in waiting for a movie to start waiting in waiting for a movie to start waiting in the doctor's office those were places the doctor's office those were places the doctor's office those were places where i had amazing ideas so i always where i had amazing ideas so i always where i had amazing ideas so i always carry a notepad and paper with me i've carry a notepad and paper with me i've carry a notepad and paper with me i've jot it down like crazy because you never jot it down like crazy because you never jot it down like crazy because you never know when those things will happen know when those things will happen know when those things will happen yeah for me it's probably taking a yeah for me it's probably taking a yeah for me it's probably taking a shower i tell barbara yeah shower i tell barbara yeah shower i tell barbara yeah he wrote about he wrote him yes he wrote he wrote about he wrote him yes he wrote he wrote about he wrote him yes he wrote about taking his shower i'm a shower guy about taking his shower i'm a shower guy about taking his shower i'm a shower guy totally yeah let me let me comment there jason yeah let me let me comment there jason you asked about technology and phil you you asked about technology and phil you you asked about technology and phil you were just talking about taking walk and were just talking about taking walk and were just talking about taking walk and so i'll just i've you know been reading so i'll just i've you know been reading so i'll just i've you know been reading phil's book i'm almost done didn't quite phil's book i'm almost done didn't quite phil's book i'm almost done didn't quite get to the end before before we had this get to the end before before we had this get to the end before before we had this podcast but one of the things that he podcast but one of the things that he podcast but one of the things that he wrote in the book that i read a few days wrote in the book that i read a few days wrote in the book that i read a few days ago was ideas are the most fragile ago was ideas are the most fragile ago was ideas are the most fragile things in the world if you don't write things in the world if you don't write things in the world if you don't write them down they'll completely disappear them down they'll completely disappear them down they'll completely disappear yeah and i yeah and i yeah and i read that section of the book read that section of the book read that section of the book a few days ago a few days ago a few days ago and then i went out for a walk because i and then i went out for a walk because i and then i went out for a walk because i was taking a walk that morning and one was taking a walk that morning and one was taking a walk that morning and one of my ministry colleagues a guy that

of my ministry colleagues a guy that of my ministry colleagues a guy that i've been doing ministry with for a long i've been doing ministry with for a long i've been doing ministry with for a long time we've we've been talking about time we've we've been talking about time we've we've been talking about co-writing a book together and we set a co-writing a book together and we set a co-writing a book together and we set a goal in 2022 to get the first draft of goal in 2022 to get the first draft of goal in 2022 to get the first draft of that book done and of course we're in that book done and of course we're in that book done and of course we're in june at the time we're recording this june at the time we're recording this june at the time we're recording this podcast and we have done zip zeros podcast and we have done zip zeros podcast and we have done zip zeros and so i read that and i've got that and so i read that and i've got that and so i read that and i've got that processing in my head processing in my head processing in my head ideas are fragile they'll disappear if ideas are fragile they'll disappear if ideas are fragile they'll disappear if we don't write them down i'm taking the we don't write them down i'm taking the we don't write them down i'm taking the walk i pull out my phone i pull up my walk i pull out my phone i pull up my walk i pull out my phone i pull up my evernote app and i literally dictated evernote app and i literally dictated evernote app and i literally dictated the first chapter of the book i've known the first chapter of the book i've known the first chapter of the book i've known for a while kind of the direction that for a while kind of the direction that for a while kind of the direction that we were going to go in terms of the we were going to go in terms of the we were going to go in terms of the opening and how we were going to present opening and how we were going to present opening and how we were going to present you know the the opening of the content you know the the opening of the content you know the the opening of the content and so i came home from my walk that day and so i came home from my walk that day and so i came home from my walk that day and i have the first draft of the first and i have the first draft of the first and i have the first draft of the first chapter of the book done and so i used chapter of the book done and so i used chapter of the book done and so i used both walking and technology at the same both walking and technology at the same both walking and technology at the same time and uh inspired by ideas on a time and uh inspired by ideas on a time and uh inspired by ideas on a deadline i i don't have a deadline i deadline i i don't have a deadline i deadline i i don't have a deadline i guess i sort of do kind of it's a soft guess i sort of do kind of it's a soft guess i sort of do kind of it's a soft deadline but uh there's there's my deadline but uh there's there's my deadline but uh there's there's my example of walking creativity and example of walking creativity and example of walking creativity and digital tools all together digital tools all together digital tools all together that's really good i love that in fact that's really good i love that in fact that's really good i love that in fact you know it's funny in in the book you you know it's funny in in the book you you know it's funny in in the book you know you mentioned a minute ago know you mentioned a minute ago know you mentioned a minute ago what part of the book have i been doing what part of the book have i been doing what part of the book have i been doing without realizing it for years and and without realizing it for years and and without realizing it for years and and writing it down is probably another big writing it down is probably another big writing it down is probably another big one because i've for i've got literally one because i've for i've got literally one because i've for i've got literally boxes of notebooks i've got boxes of boxes of notebooks i've got boxes of boxes of notebooks i've got boxes of notes that i've i've kept since college notes that i've i've kept since college notes that i've i've kept since college and um you know anytime because early on and um you know anytime because early on and um you know anytime because early on in my career i didn't have the money i in my career i didn't have the money i in my career i didn't have the money i didn't have the team to do great stuff didn't have the team to do great stuff didn't have the team to do great stuff on film or television but as i got older

on film or television but as i got older on film or television but as i got older i started getting the budget and the i started getting the budget and the i started getting the budget and the team and the access and the resources team and the access and the resources team and the access and the resources and so i i go back through those and so i i go back through those and so i i go back through those notebooks regularly seeing about what i notebooks regularly seeing about what i notebooks regularly seeing about what i thought of 20 years ago and maybe thought of 20 years ago and maybe thought of 20 years ago and maybe there's something in there there that there's something in there there that there's something in there there that could work and i learned this principle could work and i learned this principle could work and i learned this principle years ago i talked in the book i was at years ago i talked in the book i was at years ago i talked in the book i was at a christmas party and i met a very a christmas party and i met a very a christmas party and i met a very successful businessman from south africa successful businessman from south africa successful businessman from south africa and a group of us were talking to him and a group of us were talking to him and a group of us were talking to him and you know i have the spiritual gift and you know i have the spiritual gift and you know i have the spiritual gift of asking asking what everybody else is of asking asking what everybody else is of asking asking what everybody else is thinking so i just said hey how did you thinking so i just said hey how did you thinking so i just said hey how did you get your money and he said well it's get your money and he said well it's get your money and he said well it's interesting you ask and he told the interesting you ask and he told the interesting you ask and he told the story about going shopping with his wife story about going shopping with his wife story about going shopping with his wife and he got bored after a couple hours and he got bored after a couple hours and he got bored after a couple hours and he sat on a bench in a mall while and he sat on a bench in a mall while and he sat on a bench in a mall while she went into one more like you know one she went into one more like you know one she went into one more like you know one last women's store to look at dresses last women's store to look at dresses last women's store to look at dresses and he said i started watching teenagers and he said i started watching teenagers and he said i started watching teenagers on their phones and he said this was on their phones and he said this was on their phones and he said this was back in the the flip phone days and he back in the the flip phone days and he back in the the flip phone days and he said this idea hit me out of the blue said this idea hit me out of the blue said this idea hit me out of the blue what if they could download their what if they could download their what if they could download their favorite songs and use those as favorite songs and use those as favorite songs and use those as ringtones on their phone he said i ringtones on their phone he said i ringtones on their phone he said i thought that was a good idea so i pulled thought that was a good idea so i pulled thought that was a good idea so i pulled a pin out of my pocket i scrounged a pin out of my pocket i scrounged a pin out of my pocket i scrounged around i found a brochure on the bench around i found a brochure on the bench around i found a brochure on the bench wrote the idea down wrote the idea down wrote the idea down put it in my coat pocket and as i was put it in my coat pocket and as i was put it in my coat pocket and as i was doing it my wife called me into the doing it my wife called me into the doing it my wife called me into the store to look at a dress store to look at a dress store to look at a dress he said so i put it in my pocket and he said so i put it in my pocket and he said so i put it in my pocket and promptly forgot all about it he said six promptly forgot all about it he said six promptly forgot all about it he said six months went by i went to the closet months went by i went to the closet months went by i went to the closet pulled out that jacket reached in the pulled out that jacket reached in the pulled out that jacket reached in the pocket and behold found that note and he pocket and behold found that note and he pocket and behold found that note and he said i thought said i thought said i thought i remembered that night at the mall and i remembered that night at the mall and i remembered that night at the mall and i realized this is a good idea i need to i realized this is a good idea i need to i realized this is a good idea i need to do something about this so he said i i do something about this so he said i i do something about this so he said i i got the rights to five songs i built a got the rights to five songs i built a got the rights to five songs i built a little computer server made a deal with little computer server made a deal with little computer server made a deal with a local cell phone company and he said a local cell phone company and he said a local cell phone company and he said literally within two years i sold that

literally within two years i sold that literally within two years i sold that company for 70 million dollars and company for 70 million dollars and company for 70 million dollars and that's he looked at me at the party and that's he looked at me at the party and that's he looked at me at the party and he said but phil you need to understand he said but phil you need to understand he said but phil you need to understand had i not written that idea down i would had i not written that idea down i would had i not written that idea down i would have completely forgot about it so that have completely forgot about it so that have completely forgot about it so that was 170 million dollar idea that only was 170 million dollar idea that only was 170 million dollar idea that only happened because he wrote it down so happened because he wrote it down so happened because he wrote it down so i'll tell you since that party you'll i'll tell you since that party you'll i'll tell you since that party you'll never catch me without notepads in my my never catch me without notepads in my my never catch me without notepads in my my pocket i got a couple note-taking apps pocket i got a couple note-taking apps pocket i got a couple note-taking apps on my iphone i've got a notebook i carry on my iphone i've got a notebook i carry on my iphone i've got a notebook i carry in my briefcase you just never know in my briefcase you just never know in my briefcase you just never know where that where that where that idea that where god could drop that idea idea that where god could drop that idea idea that where god could drop that idea that could change the world on you you that could change the world on you you that could change the world on you you need to be able to write it down need to be able to write it down need to be able to write it down wow that's phenomenal that's phenomenal wow that's phenomenal that's phenomenal wow that's phenomenal that's phenomenal hey phil before we wrap things up i'm hey phil before we wrap things up i'm hey phil before we wrap things up i'm going to i want to lead you a little bit going to i want to lead you a little bit going to i want to lead you a little bit in our conversation um based on in our conversation um based on in our conversation um based on something that you just said you know something that you just said you know something that you just said you know you talked about just the trajectory of you talked about just the trajectory of you talked about just the trajectory of your own personal career your own personal career your own personal career you've gone from simply being a creator you've gone from simply being a creator you've gone from simply being a creator who creates to actually now being an who creates to actually now being an who creates to actually now being an organizational leader where you have organizational leader where you have organizational leader where you have staff and you have people and you have staff and you have people and you have staff and you have people and you have budgets and you have not just personal budgets and you have not just personal budgets and you have not just personal deadlines but you have organizational deadlines but you have organizational deadlines but you have organizational deadlines sure you know a lot of the deadlines sure you know a lot of the deadlines sure you know a lot of the people that listen to our podcast are people that listen to our podcast are people that listen to our podcast are leading teams or they're leading leading teams or they're leading leading teams or they're leading churches and they're dealing with a lot churches and they're dealing with a lot churches and they're dealing with a lot of the same complexity that of the same complexity that of the same complexity that that you know you are probably you know that you know you are probably you know that you know you are probably you know uh having to deal with but they're also uh having to deal with but they're also uh having to deal with but they're also creative artistic people and so i think creative artistic people and so i think creative artistic people and so i think sometimes there's a challenge there for sometimes there's a challenge there for sometimes there's a challenge there for creative artistic people to also be able creative artistic people to also be able creative artistic people to also be able to manage uh and lead others and manage to manage uh and lead others and manage to manage uh and lead others and manage organizational stuff organizational stuff organizational stuff how do you how do you how do you manage your own personal time in your

manage your own personal time in your manage your own personal time in your own disciplines as you lead an own disciplines as you lead an own disciplines as you lead an organization and you lead your staff and organization and you lead your staff and organization and you lead your staff and you lead your team versus the amount of you lead your team versus the amount of you lead your team versus the amount of time that you're able to give to sort of time that you're able to give to sort of time that you're able to give to sort of your creative processes and the things your creative processes and the things your creative processes and the things that have really made you that have really made you that have really made you successful in your career successful in your career successful in your career that's a great question and you're right that's a great question and you're right that's a great question and you're right it's different but from being a creative it's different but from being a creative it's different but from being a creative person to being a creative leader uh person to being a creative leader uh person to being a creative leader uh certainly i've learned from both but certainly i've learned from both but certainly i've learned from both but there's a great book out there called there's a great book out there called there's a great book out there called the e-myth it's been out for quite some the e-myth it's been out for quite some the e-myth it's been out for quite some time and the whole premise of that book time and the whole premise of that book time and the whole premise of that book is is is you may be the best electrician in your you may be the best electrician in your you may be the best electrician in your city and so you figure why am i working city and so you figure why am i working city and so you figure why am i working for these idiots i'll start my own for these idiots i'll start my own for these idiots i'll start my own company and then you go out and start company and then you go out and start company and then you go out and start the company but you don't know anything the company but you don't know anything the company but you don't know anything about sales you don't know anything about sales you don't know anything about sales you don't know anything about marketing you don't know anything about marketing you don't know anything about marketing you don't know anything about stocking the supply room you don't about stocking the supply room you don't about stocking the supply room you don't know anything about customer service so know anything about customer service so know anything about customer service so it is a whole different world from the it is a whole different world from the it is a whole different world from the time you become a creative person to time you become a creative person to time you become a creative person to become a creative leader and the truth become a creative leader and the truth become a creative leader and the truth is there's not much leadership stuff out is there's not much leadership stuff out is there's not much leadership stuff out there particularly when it comes to there particularly when it comes to there particularly when it comes to leading creative teams and i think that leading creative teams and i think that leading creative teams and i think that i wrestle i've wrestled with that for a i wrestle i've wrestled with that for a i wrestle i've wrestled with that for a long time and i've studied it i've read long time and i've studied it i've read long time and i've studied it i've read and i've you know i go to people like and i've you know i go to people like and i've you know i go to people like john maxwell for advice and and i i have john maxwell for advice and and i i have john maxwell for advice and and i i have the uh the privilege of being in the uh the privilege of being in the uh the privilege of being in hollywood here where i get to meet a lot hollywood here where i get to meet a lot hollywood here where i get to meet a lot of people who are the heads of studios of people who are the heads of studios of people who are the heads of studios heads of production companies and um i heads of production companies and um i heads of production companies and um i was at the producers guild of america was at the producers guild of america was at the producers guild of america conference i'm a member of that group uh conference i'm a member of that group uh conference i'm a member of that group uh just this past weekend and got to hear just this past weekend and got to hear just this past weekend and got to hear from some of the best producers in the from some of the best producers in the from some of the best producers in the country about how they they lead their country about how they they lead their country about how they they lead their teams and so you know i just encourage teams and so you know i just encourage teams and so you know i just encourage people listening to be in the game people listening to be in the game people listening to be in the game always be learning you know one of the always be learning you know one of the always be learning you know one of the things i discovered in my research for things i discovered in my research for things i discovered in my research for the book the book the book is that

is that is that we we we you don't lose creativity as you get you don't lose creativity as you get you don't lose creativity as you get older there's research that indicates we older there's research that indicates we older there's research that indicates we look at creativity from a different look at creativity from a different look at creativity from a different perspective we do it in a different way perspective we do it in a different way perspective we do it in a different way but there's no research out there at all but there's no research out there at all but there's no research out there at all that we get less creative as we get that we get less creative as we get that we get less creative as we get older you know and it bugs me in older you know and it bugs me in older you know and it bugs me in churches because i'll go to leadership churches because i'll go to leadership churches because i'll go to leadership team meetings at churches and everybody team meetings at churches and everybody team meetings at churches and everybody around the table is 20 or 30 years old around the table is 20 or 30 years old around the table is 20 or 30 years old and i'm glad i'm thrilled that young and i'm glad i'm thrilled that young and i'm glad i'm thrilled that young people are getting involved but i wonder people are getting involved but i wonder people are getting involved but i wonder how many older people got pushed out to how many older people got pushed out to how many older people got pushed out to make that happen so if you're a pastor make that happen so if you're a pastor make that happen so if you're a pastor if you're a leader i just encourage you if you're a leader i just encourage you if you're a leader i just encourage you older people have older people have older people have they may be taking a little different they may be taking a little different they may be taking a little different perspective but if they're staying in perspective but if they're staying in perspective but if they're staying in the game if they're reading if they're the game if they're reading if they're the game if they're reading if they're studying if they're engaging and growing studying if they're engaging and growing studying if they're engaging and growing there's absolutely no reason why they there's absolutely no reason why they there's absolutely no reason why they can't be an incredibly productive and can't be an incredibly productive and can't be an incredibly productive and creative part of your team and i say to creative part of your team and i say to creative part of your team and i say to creative people who are getting older creative people who are getting older creative people who are getting older don't step back automatically don't just don't step back automatically don't just don't step back automatically don't just assume and defer to those younger people assume and defer to those younger people assume and defer to those younger people in the room because you do have in the room because you do have in the room because you do have experience as long as you stay active experience as long as you stay active experience as long as you stay active you know that's the problem with older you know that's the problem with older you know that's the problem with older people sometimes they just start slowing people sometimes they just start slowing people sometimes they just start slowing down and giving up they just start down and giving up they just start down and giving up they just start stepping back of their own accord but as stepping back of their own accord but as stepping back of their own accord but as long as they're willing to stay engaged long as they're willing to stay engaged long as they're willing to stay engaged and grow there's no reason older people and grow there's no reason older people and grow there's no reason older people can't be just as creative as anybody can't be just as creative as anybody can't be just as creative as anybody else in the book i talk about a number else in the book i talk about a number else in the book i talk about a number of artists who are active in their 70s of artists who are active in their 70s of artists who are active in their 70s 80s and even 90s so there's no reason to 80s and even 90s so there's no reason to 80s and even 90s so there's no reason to do that so i think that being a creative do that so i think that being a creative do that so i think that being a creative leader if there's anything i'd like to leader if there's anything i'd like to leader if there's anything i'd like to probably focus the rest of my career on probably focus the rest of my career on probably focus the rest of my career on is helping is helping is helping people lead creative people because i do people lead creative people because i do people lead creative people because i do think it's so incredibly important

it is yeah that's absolutely right it is yeah that's absolutely right thanks for thanks for letting me thanks for thanks for letting me thanks for thanks for letting me indulging me with that question indulging me with that question indulging me with that question we probably need to uh to wrap things up we probably need to uh to wrap things up we probably need to uh to wrap things up here jason i wanted to throw things back here jason i wanted to throw things back here jason i wanted to throw things back over to you one more time if you had any over to you one more time if you had any over to you one more time if you had any questions or any final thoughts that you questions or any final thoughts that you questions or any final thoughts that you wanted to share as we uh as we wrap up wanted to share as we uh as we wrap up wanted to share as we uh as we wrap up the show today well no i i want to go the show today well no i i want to go the show today well no i i want to go back to what phil said earlier i think back to what phil said earlier i think back to what phil said earlier i think you know as a team so this is to the you know as a team so this is to the you know as a team so this is to the churches churches churches buy this book for all your team members buy this book for all your team members buy this book for all your team members it's one thing for you to read it but it's one thing for you to read it but it's one thing for you to read it but now you're on an island now you're on an island now you're on an island of yourself so get everybody on your of yourself so get everybody on your of yourself so get everybody on your team to read this book and now you guys team to read this book and now you guys team to read this book and now you guys can all move down the same same path can all move down the same same path can all move down the same same path together because i it is a struggle with together because i it is a struggle with together because i it is a struggle with churches i'm consulting with the church churches i'm consulting with the church churches i'm consulting with the church right now and we're trying to get their right now and we're trying to get their right now and we're trying to get their their pastors to to share stories of their pastors to to share stories of their pastors to to share stories of changed lives changed lives changed lives they all have them yeah but to get them they all have them yeah but to get them they all have them yeah but to get them to give us that those names of those to give us that those names of those to give us that those names of those changed is so changed is so changed is so hard so wow we got to create a deadline hard so wow we got to create a deadline hard so wow we got to create a deadline because you are not staying in there so because you are not staying in there so because you are not staying in there so i i just i'm a huge fan phil you are oh i i just i'm a huge fan phil you are oh i i just i'm a huge fan phil you are oh thank you you're very kind you're gifted thank you you're very kind you're gifted thank you you're very kind you're gifted thanks for sharing your time with us thanks for sharing your time with us thanks for sharing your time with us today i can't wait to to see what this today i can't wait to to see what this today i can't wait to to see what this book's going to do for for the church book's going to do for for the church book's going to do for for the church well thanks for giving me this platform well thanks for giving me this platform well thanks for giving me this platform that's just fun i want to add one thing that's just fun i want to add one thing that's just fun i want to add one thing to what jason said not only will it be to what jason said not only will it be to what jason said not only will it be good for you as a creative person to good for you as a creative person to good for you as a creative person to read this book with your team but read this book with your team but read this book with your team but chances are after you read this book as chances are after you read this book as chances are after you read this book as a creative person you're probably going a creative person you're probably going a creative person you're probably going to develop some new patterns and some to develop some new patterns and some to develop some new patterns and some new habits new habits new habits which other people might think are weird which other people might think are weird which other people might think are weird and if you all read the book together and if you all read the book together and if you all read the book together then everyone will understand why you're then everyone will understand why you're then everyone will understand why you're so weird so great point great don't make so weird so great point great don't make so weird so great point great don't make sense sense sense never thought of it that way but that never thought of it that way but that never thought of it that way but that makes sense yeah hey phil thank you

makes sense yeah hey phil thank you makes sense yeah hey phil thank you again uh for joining us on the show again uh for joining us on the show again uh for joining us on the show today um if out where where can people today um if out where where can people today um if out where where can people get the book tell us where they can get get the book tell us where they can get get the book tell us where they can get the book and where the book is available the book and where the book is available the book and where the book is available book is available everywhere you get book is available everywhere you get book is available everywhere you get certainly at amazon barnes and noble certainly at amazon barnes and noble certainly at amazon barnes and noble wherever but there we have a site that wherever but there we have a site that wherever but there we have a site that we created called we created called we created called called ideas on a deadline dot com and called ideas on a deadline dot com and called ideas on a deadline dot com and we we have a little non-profit we built we we have a little non-profit we built we we have a little non-profit we built a number of years ago called the a number of years ago called the a number of years ago called the influence lab you can go to influence lab you can go to influence lab you can go to influencelab.com and we created it influencelab.com and we created it influencelab.com and we created it because i don't know about you guys but because i don't know about you guys but because i don't know about you guys but we get so many requests from christians we get so many requests from christians we get so many requests from christians internationally to come and teach them internationally to come and teach them internationally to come and teach them about media the hunger is just amazing about media the hunger is just amazing about media the hunger is just amazing and so we've been funding these projects and so we've been funding these projects and so we've been funding these projects for years by ourselves and we thought for years by ourselves and we thought for years by ourselves and we thought let's launch a little non-profit to let's launch a little non-profit to let's launch a little non-profit to encourage people to give and support encourage people to give and support encourage people to give and support that effort because if we could get the that effort because if we could get the that effort because if we could get the church internationally using digital church internationally using digital church internationally using digital media more effectively can can be media more effectively can can be media more effectively can can be amazing and we've done sessions in the amazing and we've done sessions in the amazing and we've done sessions in the middle east and russia and south america middle east and russia and south america middle east and russia and south america and africa and india it's just been and africa and india it's just been and africa and india it's just been really remarkable so if you you can go really remarkable so if you you can go really remarkable so if you you can go to ideas on a deadline.com or to ideas on a deadline.com or to ideas on a deadline.com or influencelab.com and if you want to make influencelab.com and if you want to make influencelab.com and if you want to make a little donation a little donation a little donation there to get the book we'll also send there to get the book we'll also send there to get the book we'll also send you some bonus resources some teaching you some bonus resources some teaching you some bonus resources some teaching resources in addition to the book that i resources in addition to the book that i resources in addition to the book that i think will really help you so but you think will really help you so but you think will really help you so but you can get it anywhere you feel comfortable can get it anywhere you feel comfortable can get it anywhere you feel comfortable and order it right away and i'd be and order it right away and i'd be and order it right away and i'd be grateful grateful grateful bill cook the book is called ideas on a bill cook the book is called ideas on a bill cook the book is called ideas on a deadline thanks again for being on the deadline thanks again for being on the deadline thanks again for being on the missional marketing podcast thank you missional marketing podcast thank you missional marketing podcast thank you guys