Stop Wasting Your Church Marketing Budget | Jason and Bart

[Music] [Music] We are trying to create disciples. We are trying to create disciples. We are trying to create disciples. What's a disciple? It's an apprentice. What's a disciple? It's an apprentice. What's a disciple? It's an apprentice. Somebody who's following in the Somebody who's following in the Somebody who's following in the footsteps of Jesus, doing what Jesus footsteps of Jesus, doing what Jesus footsteps of Jesus, doing what Jesus did. If that's our goal, then the stuff did. If that's our goal, then the stuff did. If that's our goal, then the stuff we're doing to invite and bring people we're doing to invite and bring people we're doing to invite and bring people should be trackable to say, "Hey, did should be trackable to say, "Hey, did should be trackable to say, "Hey, did did we move the needle on connecting did we move the needle on connecting did we move the needle on connecting with people and inviting them to the with people and inviting them to the with people and inviting them to the point where now they are fully devoted point where now they are fully devoted point where now they are fully devoted like Luke 9:23 people. They're carrying like Luke 9:23 people. They're carrying like Luke 9:23 people. They're carrying the cross daily. Welcome to another the cross daily. Welcome to another the cross daily. Welcome to another episode of the missional marketing episode of the missional marketing episode of the missional marketing podcast. I am Bart Blair, the brand podcast. I am Bart Blair, the brand podcast. I am Bart Blair, the brand director for missional marketing and I director for missional marketing and I director for missional marketing and I am joined by what AI tells me is one of am joined by what AI tells me is one of am joined by what AI tells me is one of the foremost thought leaders in church the foremost thought leaders in church the foremost thought leaders in church marketing and communications, the CEO of marketing and communications, the CEO of marketing and communications, the CEO of missional marketing, Mr. Jason Hamrock. missional marketing, Mr. Jason Hamrock. missional marketing, Mr. Jason Hamrock. How'd you like? Don't believe everything How'd you like? Don't believe everything How'd you like? Don't believe everything you see and read on the internet. Uh you see and read on the internet. Uh you see and read on the internet. Uh yeah, if I mean if AI says you are one yeah, if I mean if AI says you are one yeah, if I mean if AI says you are one of the foremost thought leaders in of the foremost thought leaders in of the foremost thought leaders in church marketing communications, it must church marketing communications, it must church marketing communications, it must be true. You know, we've done a good job be true. You know, we've done a good job be true. You know, we've done a good job of optimizing our website. Apparently, of optimizing our website. Apparently, of optimizing our website. Apparently, we have. We have. And And for some we have. We have. And And for some we have. We have. And And for some reason, everything on our website looks reason, everything on our website looks reason, everything on our website looks like it's been sourced by Jason Hamro.

like it's been sourced by Jason Hamro. like it's been sourced by Jason Hamro. It's all come out of your brain. No, we It's all come out of your brain. No, we It's all come out of your brain. No, we have an amazing, gifted, talented team have an amazing, gifted, talented team have an amazing, gifted, talented team of people who actually make you and me of people who actually make you and me of people who actually make you and me look really good when we're interfacing look really good when we're interfacing look really good when we're interfacing and engaging with churches. Really, and engaging with churches. Really, and engaging with churches. Really, really good. Yes. We have a phenomenal really good. Yes. We have a phenomenal really good. Yes. We have a phenomenal team. So, you know, kudos and credits to team. So, you know, kudos and credits to team. So, you know, kudos and credits to those guys. They know who they are. those guys. They know who they are. those guys. They know who they are. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, for Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, for Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, for those of you who are new to our podcast, those of you who are new to our podcast, those of you who are new to our podcast, uh we produce this podcast really to uh we produce this podcast really to uh we produce this podcast really to help churches grow through leveraging help churches grow through leveraging help churches grow through leveraging digital marketing and effective digital marketing and effective digital marketing and effective communications. We've been producing communications. We've been producing communications. We've been producing this podcast since 2020. Uh we've been a this podcast since 2020. Uh we've been a this podcast since 2020. Uh we've been a little less consistent lately, but man, little less consistent lately, but man, little less consistent lately, but man, we're we're uh we're we're determined to we're we're uh we're we're determined to we're we're uh we're we're determined to hit episode number 200 in the year 2025. hit episode number 200 in the year 2025. hit episode number 200 in the year 2025. I think this is number 169, if I have my I think this is number 169, if I have my I think this is number 169, if I have my number to do correct. And uh we're going number to do correct. And uh we're going number to do correct. And uh we're going to actually do a relatively brief to actually do a relatively brief to actually do a relatively brief conversation today and I'm going to kind conversation today and I'm going to kind conversation today and I'm going to kind of call it a little bit of a follow-up of call it a little bit of a follow-up of call it a little bit of a follow-up from our last episode. So, if you didn't from our last episode. So, if you didn't from our last episode. So, if you didn't listen to last episode, make sure that listen to last episode, make sure that listen to last episode, make sure that you do. We talked about things that make you do. We talked about things that make you do. We talked about things that make a marketing campaign effective and a marketing campaign effective and a marketing campaign effective and different ways to go about approaching different ways to go about approaching different ways to go about approaching marketing marketing campaigns. But I marketing marketing campaigns. But I marketing marketing campaigns. But I sort of had some thoughts. You and I sort of had some thoughts. You and I sort of had some thoughts. You and I were in a meeting this morning. You said were in a meeting this morning. You said were in a meeting this morning. You said some stuff and I was like, oo, you know some stuff and I was like, oo, you know some stuff and I was like, oo, you know what? Jason's right. I'm just going to what? Jason's right. I'm just going to what? Jason's right. I'm just going to kind of throw out a statement here and kind of throw out a statement here and kind of throw out a statement here and then I'm going to kind of interview you then I'm going to kind of interview you then I'm going to kind of interview you on this particular topic. Um, if your on this particular topic. Um, if your on this particular topic. Um, if your church does not have an effective church does not have an effective church does not have an effective in-person engagement or assimilation in-person engagement or assimilation in-person engagement or assimilation strategy, pretty much any marketing strategy, pretty much any marketing strategy, pretty much any marketing campaign that you're going to do is campaign that you're going to do is campaign that you're going to do is ineffective. It's going to be a waste of ineffective. It's going to be a waste of ineffective. It's going to be a waste of money. You could spend a lot of money money. You could spend a lot of money money. You could spend a lot of money marketing to your community, doing marketing to your community, doing marketing to your community, doing digital outreach to your community, and digital outreach to your community, and digital outreach to your community, and actually see those ad campaigns, bring

actually see those ad campaigns, bring actually see those ad campaigns, bring people through your front doors, but people through your front doors, but people through your front doors, but unless you actually have a specific unless you actually have a specific unless you actually have a specific strategy to connect those people into strategy to connect those people into strategy to connect those people into community, there's a very good chance community, there's a very good chance community, there's a very good chance they come in the front door, they go out they come in the front door, they go out they come in the front door, they go out the back door, and you never see them the back door, and you never see them the back door, and you never see them again. So, I know you have this again. So, I know you have this again. So, I know you have this conversation with churches all the time. conversation with churches all the time. conversation with churches all the time. Um, just give me a little bounce back on Um, just give me a little bounce back on Um, just give me a little bounce back on what I just said there. Well, we, you what I just said there. Well, we, you what I just said there. Well, we, you know, you're right. You you can run ad know, you're right. You you can run ad know, you're right. You you can run ad campaigns blindly. Most of us do with campaigns blindly. Most of us do with campaigns blindly. Most of us do with the hope crossing our fingers throwing the hope crossing our fingers throwing the hope crossing our fingers throwing up a prayer that that's going to reap up a prayer that that's going to reap up a prayer that that's going to reap somebody who needs to hear that message somebody who needs to hear that message somebody who needs to hear that message and then they show up to church. We and then they show up to church. We and then they show up to church. We don't know if they showed up. The Lord don't know if they showed up. The Lord don't know if they showed up. The Lord does. We don't know if they showed up to does. We don't know if they showed up to does. We don't know if they showed up to church or not. And we can do that. And church or not. And we can do that. And church or not. And we can do that. And that's that's sometimes that's what we that's that's sometimes that's what we that's that's sometimes that's what we have to because that's what we have to have to because that's what we have to have to because that's what we have to work with. So there's nothing wrong with work with. So there's nothing wrong with work with. So there's nothing wrong with doing that. Please hear me. Don't don't doing that. Please hear me. Don't don't doing that. Please hear me. Don't don't it's not like don't stop spending money it's not like don't stop spending money it's not like don't stop spending money on on digital advertising and that's on on digital advertising and that's on on digital advertising and that's really really really important but what really really really important but what really really really important but what you're getting to is where my heart goes you're getting to is where my heart goes you're getting to is where my heart goes and that is what are we trying to do as and that is what are we trying to do as and that is what are we trying to do as a church now this is a deep question I a church now this is a deep question I a church now this is a deep question I won't go too deep into it but uh we are won't go too deep into it but uh we are won't go too deep into it but uh we are trying to create disciples what's a trying to create disciples what's a trying to create disciples what's a disciple it's an apprentice somebody disciple it's an apprentice somebody disciple it's an apprentice somebody who's following in the footsteps of who's following in the footsteps of who's following in the footsteps of Jesus doing what Jesus did so go read Jesus doing what Jesus did so go read Jesus doing what Jesus did so go read the New Testament go read the gospels if the New Testament go read the gospels if the New Testament go read the gospels if you want to know what Jesus did right He you want to know what Jesus did right He you want to know what Jesus did right He did worship. He prayed. He gave. He did worship. He prayed. He gave. He did worship. He prayed. He gave. He served. I I could go. He was he was in served. I I could go. He was he was in served. I I could go. He was he was in small group. Yeah. Different kind of small group. Yeah. Different kind of small group. Yeah. Different kind of context, but he was in groups, right?

context, but he was in groups, right? context, but he was in groups, right? So, if if if that's our goal, awesome. I So, if if if that's our goal, awesome. I So, if if if that's our goal, awesome. I love that. Okay. That's the target goal. love that. Okay. That's the target goal. love that. Okay. That's the target goal. then the stuff we're doing to invite and then the stuff we're doing to invite and then the stuff we're doing to invite and bring people should be trackable to say, bring people should be trackable to say, bring people should be trackable to say, "Hey, did did we move the needle on "Hey, did did we move the needle on "Hey, did did we move the needle on connecting with people and inviting them connecting with people and inviting them connecting with people and inviting them to the point where now they are fully to the point where now they are fully to the point where now they are fully devoted like Luke 9:23 people, they're devoted like Luke 9:23 people, they're devoted like Luke 9:23 people, they're carrying the cross daily and and that's carrying the cross daily and and that's carrying the cross daily and and that's kind of where my heart goes, my mind kind of where my heart goes, my mind kind of where my heart goes, my mind goes. is I'm going how do we make sure goes. is I'm going how do we make sure goes. is I'm going how do we make sure that we are developing tools and we're that we are developing tools and we're that we are developing tools and we're developing systems that are going to be developing systems that are going to be developing systems that are going to be able to as much as we can track some of able to as much as we can track some of able to as much as we can track some of that movement and that that that gets that movement and that that that gets that movement and that that that gets really interesting because there's a lot really interesting because there's a lot really interesting because there's a lot of great tools we have them that help of great tools we have them that help of great tools we have them that help you see that but you want to make sure you see that but you want to make sure you see that but you want to make sure that you've got a plan and if you don't that you've got a plan and if you don't that you've got a plan and if you don't if you kind of like don't have a plan if you kind of like don't have a plan if you kind of like don't have a plan then how do you know if you're hitting then how do you know if you're hitting then how do you know if you're hitting the the the bullseye? Yeah. Yeah, I think there's bullseye? Yeah. Yeah, I think there's bullseye? Yeah. Yeah, I think there's two there's two sides of this two there's two sides of this two there's two sides of this discussion. One is the technical discussion. One is the technical discussion. One is the technical tracking aspect of it, which is um if we tracking aspect of it, which is um if we tracking aspect of it, which is um if we are getting people in the front doors on are getting people in the front doors on are getting people in the front doors on Sunday, new guests, new people checking Sunday, new guests, new people checking Sunday, new guests, new people checking out our church on a regular basis, out our church on a regular basis, out our church on a regular basis, they're in decision-making mode, they're they're in decision-making mode, they're they're in decision-making mode, they're trying to decide if your church is the trying to decide if your church is the trying to decide if your church is the right fit for them. Number one, we need right fit for them. Number one, we need right fit for them. Number one, we need to have really clear first steps so that to have really clear first steps so that to have really clear first steps so that we can collect their information. And we can collect their information. And we can collect their information. And then we need to have a very um strategic then we need to have a very um strategic then we need to have a very um strategic and well organized process of following and well organized process of following and well organized process of following up with them and creating additional up with them and creating additional up with them and creating additional engagement. The other side of this is engagement. The other side of this is engagement. The other side of this is actually the cultural and the experience

actually the cultural and the experience actually the cultural and the experience discussion. And this is one where I discussion. And this is one where I discussion. And this is one where I think as a church leadership team you think as a church leadership team you think as a church leadership team you need to sit down and have this need to sit down and have this need to sit down and have this conversation and ask these two conversation and ask these two conversation and ask these two questions. What about a new person's questions. What about a new person's questions. What about a new person's experience in our church on a Sunday experience in our church on a Sunday experience in our church on a Sunday morning would prevent them from coming morning would prevent them from coming morning would prevent them from coming back a second time and be deep and dirty back a second time and be deep and dirty back a second time and be deep and dirty honest with each other? And the second honest with each other? And the second honest with each other? And the second question is, what are the things that we question is, what are the things that we question is, what are the things that we could do could do could do better to get people to want to come better to get people to want to come better to get people to want to come back a second time? It does you no good back a second time? It does you no good back a second time? It does you no good to collect people's personal information to collect people's personal information to collect people's personal information and have a an email sequence and a and have a an email sequence and a and have a an email sequence and a pastor call and all of that personalized pastor call and all of that personalized pastor call and all of that personalized followup if their experience wasn't one followup if their experience wasn't one followup if their experience wasn't one where they felt like there was a place where they felt like there was a place where they felt like there was a place for them. At the same time, if you've for them. At the same time, if you've for them. At the same time, if you've bent over backwards and created this bent over backwards and created this bent over backwards and created this great experience on Sunday morning great experience on Sunday morning great experience on Sunday morning that's hospitable and welcoming and an that's hospitable and welcoming and an that's hospitable and welcoming and an easy on-ramp for unbelieving people or easy on-ramp for unbelieving people or easy on-ramp for unbelieving people or pre-Christian people or dechurched pre-Christian people or dechurched pre-Christian people or dechurched people who are coming back to church and people who are coming back to church and people who are coming back to church and yet you don't have a system and a yet you don't have a system and a yet you don't have a system and a process for connecting with them and process for connecting with them and process for connecting with them and following up, you're missing following up, you're missing following up, you're missing opportunities there. Well, and and and opportunities there. Well, and and and opportunities there. Well, and and and telling them, well, here's the path.

telling them, well, here's the path. telling them, well, here's the path. Yeah. Okay. I have a I probably have a Yeah. Okay. I have a I probably have a Yeah. Okay. I have a I probably have a need. I want to connect with God. I I I need. I want to connect with God. I I I need. I want to connect with God. I I I don't think he knows who I am or I've don't think he knows who I am or I've don't think he knows who I am or I've got kids and I they don't know who he got kids and I they don't know who he got kids and I they don't know who he is. And if if the assimilation path is. And if if the assimilation path is. And if if the assimilation path isn't like, yeah, this is what we're isn't like, yeah, this is what we're isn't like, yeah, this is what we're about. I've got a church and I won't about. I've got a church and I won't about. I've got a church and I won't mention, but if they're listening, mention, but if they're listening, mention, but if they're listening, they'll know who it is. They've got a they'll know who it is. They've got a they'll know who it is. They've got a goal um of having in in the next nine goal um of having in in the next nine goal um of having in in the next nine years, they want to produce years, they want to produce years, they want to produce 10,000 people that are living out their 10,000 people that are living out their 10,000 people that are living out their half of their essentials. They they they half of their essentials. They they they half of their essentials. They they they labeled six essentials, basically six labeled six essentials, basically six labeled six essentials, basically six disciplehip steps. They want 10,000 disciplehip steps. They want 10,000 disciplehip steps. They want 10,000 people in nine years doing at least people in nine years doing at least people in nine years doing at least three of those six. Right now they're at three of those six. Right now they're at three of those six. Right now they're at How many How many do they have How many How many do they have How many How many do they have currently? They have they have about a currently? They have they have about a currently? They have they have about a thousand So about about 3,000 people thousand So about about 3,000 people thousand So about about 3,000 people that attend on a regular basis, but that attend on a regular basis, but that attend on a regular basis, but they've identified a thousand of those they've identified a thousand of those they've identified a thousand of those people are doing three of these six. So people are doing three of these six. So people are doing three of these six. So their goal is I love this because their their goal is I love this because their their goal is I love this because their goal is when you come to this church, goal is when you come to this church, goal is when you come to this church, yes, you can just kind of get lost. You yes, you can just kind of get lost. You yes, you can just kind of get lost. You might been burned out or you might have might been burned out or you might have might been burned out or you might have been hurt by something. So, you can kind been hurt by something. So, you can kind been hurt by something. So, you can kind of get lost and just kind of take it all of get lost and just kind of take it all of get lost and just kind of take it all in. You're not ready to sign me up. I'm in. You're not ready to sign me up. I'm in. You're not ready to sign me up. I'm You're not ready quite there. That's You're not ready quite there. That's You're not ready quite there. That's fine. But at least I know what the path fine. But at least I know what the path fine. But at least I know what the path is. I understand that what you're asking is. I understand that what you're asking is. I understand that what you're asking me to do or you're saying, "Hey, Jason, me to do or you're saying, "Hey, Jason, me to do or you're saying, "Hey, Jason, if you attend our church and you make if you attend our church and you make if you attend our church and you make this your home and your body and your this your home and your body and your this your home and your body and your your your you know, your family, these your your you know, your family, these your your you know, your family, these are the things these are the elements are the things these are the elements are the things these are the elements that if you want to really connect with that if you want to really connect with that if you want to really connect with who God is and what he his plan is for who God is and what he his plan is for who God is and what he his plan is for your life, you will live out these." And your life, you will live out these." And your life, you will live out these." And that's what I like about it because if that's what I like about it because if that's what I like about it because if if I if I had the road map for some

if I if I had the road map for some if I if I had the road map for some people, they're going just what do I people, they're going just what do I people, they're going just what do I need to do? They don't even know. They need to do? They don't even know. They need to do? They don't even know. They don't even read their Bible. They don't don't even read their Bible. They don't don't even read their Bible. They don't even have a Bible, right? So, I I like even have a Bible, right? So, I I like even have a Bible, right? So, I I like what you said there was so good because what you said there was so good because what you said there was so good because they're going to come this Easter, they're going to come this Easter, they're going to come this Easter, right? We're about to get into the right? We're about to get into the right? We're about to get into the Easter. It's like a month away. And Easter. It's like a month away. And Easter. It's like a month away. And what's going to bring them back? Well, what's going to bring them back? Well, what's going to bring them back? Well, obviously there's those intangas like, obviously there's those intangas like, obviously there's those intangas like, "Oh, you guys are really, really "Oh, you guys are really, really "Oh, you guys are really, really friendly and my kids had a great time. friendly and my kids had a great time. friendly and my kids had a great time. It was easy. I mean, the worship was It was easy. I mean, the worship was It was easy. I mean, the worship was really good. That guy who talked, he was really good. That guy who talked, he was really good. That guy who talked, he was really, really good. I think I'll come really, really good. I think I'll come really, really good. I think I'll come back. Right. That's that's really back. Right. That's that's really back. Right. That's that's really important. But I think you also want to important. But I think you also want to important. But I think you also want to communicate where we're going with you, communicate where we're going with you, communicate where we're going with you, you know. Yeah. We work with a lot of you know. Yeah. We work with a lot of you know. Yeah. We work with a lot of churches, especially because we're on churches, especially because we're on churches, especially because we're on the we're kind of at the top of the the we're kind of at the top of the the we're kind of at the top of the funnel connecting with new guests funnel connecting with new guests funnel connecting with new guests outside of the the the context of your outside of the the the context of your outside of the the the context of your church family. And the best churches church family. And the best churches church family. And the best churches that we work with when it comes to that we work with when it comes to that we work with when it comes to building effective marketing campaigns, building effective marketing campaigns, building effective marketing campaigns, they have done the the hard work of they have done the the hard work of they have done the the hard work of creating an avatar or a persona for who creating an avatar or a persona for who creating an avatar or a persona for who in their community they're trying to in their community they're trying to in their community they're trying to reach. Now, I would I would actually say reach. Now, I would I would actually say reach. Now, I would I would actually say that if you as a church have never that if you as a church have never that if you as a church have never actually created the persona for what a actually created the persona for what a actually created the persona for what a growing disciple in your church looks growing disciple in your church looks growing disciple in your church looks like, it's a really great exercise. You like, it's a really great exercise. You like, it's a really great exercise. You were talking about those six essentials were talking about those six essentials were talking about those six essentials that that particular church has put that that particular church has put that that particular church has put together. I think this is a great together. I think this is a great together. I think this is a great exercise. Now, obviously, Jesus is our exercise. Now, obviously, Jesus is our exercise. Now, obviously, Jesus is our model, but none of us are actually going model, but none of us are actually going model, but none of us are actually going to be like Jesus, okay? But we do need to be like Jesus, okay? But we do need to be like Jesus, okay? But we do need to look at sort of the key to look at sort of the key to look at sort of the key characteristics and the habits and the characteristics and the habits and the characteristics and the habits and the uh personal disciplines of the not we're uh personal disciplines of the not we're uh personal disciplines of the not we're not talking elder level or pastor level not talking elder level or pastor level not talking elder level or pastor level disciples here. We're talking about the

disciples here. We're talking about the disciples here. We're talking about the average um the the average disciple in average um the the average disciple in average um the the average disciple in you know, Springfield Community Church, you know, Springfield Community Church, you know, Springfield Community Church, whatever your church is. What are those whatever your church is. What are those whatever your church is. What are those essentials that we see being lived out essentials that we see being lived out essentials that we see being lived out in their lives? And then we need to in their lives? And then we need to in their lives? And then we need to reverse engineer a pathway that goes all reverse engineer a pathway that goes all reverse engineer a pathway that goes all the way back out to that avatar or that the way back out to that avatar or that the way back out to that avatar or that persona from the person in the community persona from the person in the community persona from the person in the community that we're trying to reach, right? And that we're trying to reach, right? And that we're trying to reach, right? And we need to and and I'm really big Jason we need to and and I'm really big Jason we need to and and I'm really big Jason on we want to create a road map for on we want to create a road map for on we want to create a road map for people and I think to some degree people people and I think to some degree people people and I think to some degree people need to know what the destination is but need to know what the destination is but need to know what the destination is but most people don't need to know every pit most people don't need to know every pit most people don't need to know every pit stop or step along the way. They just stop or step along the way. They just stop or step along the way. They just need to know what's next. What's the need to know what's next. What's the need to know what's next. What's the next one thing that you need me to do? next one thing that you need me to do? next one thing that you need me to do? Can you talk a little bit about how some Can you talk a little bit about how some Can you talk a little bit about how some churches that you've worked with have churches that you've worked with have churches that you've worked with have kind of created some of those next step kind of created some of those next step kind of created some of those next step opportunities for for people in their opportunities for for people in their opportunities for for people in their churches? Well, I think it's one of churches? Well, I think it's one of churches? Well, I think it's one of those things where I if you have, you those things where I if you have, you those things where I if you have, you know, let's talk about let's talk about know, let's talk about let's talk about know, let's talk about let's talk about prayer, you know, I mean, that might prayer, you know, I mean, that might prayer, you know, I mean, that might that's a pretty good essential. You were that's a pretty good essential. You were that's a pretty good essential. You were talking to God. Well, you got to teach talking to God. Well, you got to teach talking to God. Well, you got to teach them because most people go, I don't them because most people go, I don't them because most people go, I don't even know how to pray. No, it's it you even know how to pray. No, it's it you even know how to pray. No, it's it you you you it's not about necessarily you you it's not about necessarily you you it's not about necessarily closing your eyes and going and have my closing your eyes and going and have my closing your eyes and going and have my my list of needs. Hey, Lord, keep my list of needs. Hey, Lord, keep my list of needs. Hey, Lord, keep blessing me. You know, that that's not blessing me. You know, that that's not blessing me. You know, that that's not what it's about, right? is teaching them what it's about, right? is teaching them what it's about, right? is teaching them about, hey, man, you could be driving to about, hey, man, you could be driving to about, hey, man, you could be driving to work. Don't close your eyes. Uh, but you work. Don't close your eyes. Uh, but you work. Don't close your eyes. Uh, but you could be talking to God. It's prayer, could be talking to God. It's prayer, could be talking to God. It's prayer, right? So, it's I think it's it's it's right? So, it's I think it's it's it's right? So, it's I think it's it's it's like it's like making it so simple. Like like it's like making it so simple. Like like it's like making it so simple. Like this church has six essentials. And if

this church has six essentials. And if this church has six essentials. And if you read, you're like, "Oh, that's easy you read, you're like, "Oh, that's easy you read, you're like, "Oh, that's easy to understand." Yeah. Be generous. You to understand." Yeah. Be generous. You to understand." Yeah. Be generous. You know, serve one another. Like, how do I know, serve one another. Like, how do I know, serve one another. Like, how do I serve? Just the the the ins and outs of serve? Just the the the ins and outs of serve? Just the the the ins and outs of what we do as a church. We have a food what we do as a church. We have a food what we do as a church. We have a food pantry. come and, you know, donate some pantry. come and, you know, donate some pantry. come and, you know, donate some food to that or we're going to go get food to that or we're going to go get food to that or we're going to go get some backpacks for the school or we're some backpacks for the school or we're some backpacks for the school or we're going to whatever it is, whatever it is, going to whatever it is, whatever it is, going to whatever it is, whatever it is, right? Just easy, easy stuff. But see, right? Just easy, easy stuff. But see, right? Just easy, easy stuff. But see, here's the thing. Every church probably here's the thing. Every church probably here's the thing. Every church probably listen to this does all this stuff. But listen to this does all this stuff. But listen to this does all this stuff. But it's not really articulated that says it's not really articulated that says it's not really articulated that says these are the ingredients of what these are the ingredients of what these are the ingredients of what creates a disciple. And I think if you creates a disciple. And I think if you creates a disciple. And I think if you can go back to all the way back to can go back to all the way back to can go back to all the way back to somebody who's at the top of the funnel somebody who's at the top of the funnel somebody who's at the top of the funnel who might be just checking you out or who might be just checking you out or who might be just checking you out or maybe they stumbled across something you maybe they stumbled across something you maybe they stumbled across something you offer them like a marriage counseling or offer them like a marriage counseling or offer them like a marriage counseling or something like that and they are so far something like that and they are so far something like that and they are so far from God. They're like, you know, if God from God. They're like, you know, if God from God. They're like, you know, if God knew if he even knew half the stuff I knew if he even knew half the stuff I knew if he even knew half the stuff I did, okay, he knows what you did. He did, okay, he knows what you did. He did, okay, he knows what you did. He still loves you. and and those people still loves you. and and those people still loves you. and and those people right there. We want to just start right there. We want to just start right there. We want to just start planting the seeds that this is what the planting the seeds that this is what the planting the seeds that this is what the path looks like and it's and it's lived path looks like and it's and it's lived path looks like and it's and it's lived out um daily and you don't have to over out um daily and you don't have to over out um daily and you don't have to over complicate it. It's not a check list, complicate it. It's not a check list, complicate it. It's not a check list, right? And we were just talking about right? And we were just talking about right? And we were just talking about this a little bit ago, Bart. You can you this a little bit ago, Bart. You can you this a little bit ago, Bart. You can you can give everybody the ingredients, but can give everybody the ingredients, but can give everybody the ingredients, but you can't cause them to to to cook. They you can't cause them to to to cook. They you can't cause them to to to cook. They can't they can't make the meal and eat can't they can't make the meal and eat can't they can't make the meal and eat it, right? You can give them stuff and it, right? You can give them stuff and it, right? You can give them stuff and it can go into one ear and out the it can go into one ear and out the it can go into one ear and out the other. It can go into their head. If it other. It can go into their head. If it other. It can go into their head. If it doesn't get down to their heart, that's doesn't get down to their heart, that's doesn't get down to their heart, that's on them. That's not on us. But sometimes on them. That's not on us. But sometimes on them. That's not on us. But sometimes we we make it so fuzzy. They don't even we we make it so fuzzy. They don't even we we make it so fuzzy. They don't even know, you know, and they can show up,

know, you know, and they can show up, know, you know, and they can show up, like you said, they can show up and like you said, they can show up and like you said, they can show up and engage and go, "Nah, I'm not coming engage and go, "Nah, I'm not coming engage and go, "Nah, I'm not coming back. They don't know me. They don't back. They don't know me. They don't back. They don't know me. They don't know me. They don't care about me. I'm know me. They don't care about me. I'm know me. They don't care about me. I'm not going to come back here." And that's not going to come back here." And that's not going to come back here." And that's a tragedy because I want them to realize a tragedy because I want them to realize a tragedy because I want them to realize that they are loved. There is a plan. that they are loved. There is a plan. that they are loved. There is a plan. And this is what it looks like here at And this is what it looks like here at And this is what it looks like here at our church. Yeah. I want to comment on our church. Yeah. I want to comment on our church. Yeah. I want to comment on what I see when it comes to these types what I see when it comes to these types what I see when it comes to these types of um engagement pathways. these of um engagement pathways. these of um engagement pathways. these disciplehip pathways. A common mistake disciplehip pathways. A common mistake disciplehip pathways. A common mistake that churches make and then I want you that churches make and then I want you that churches make and then I want you to kind of speak to uh maybe some to kind of speak to uh maybe some to kind of speak to uh maybe some solutions to these problems. Um one of solutions to these problems. Um one of solutions to these problems. Um one of the the steps that we or one of the the the the steps that we or one of the the the the steps that we or one of the the mistakes that we often see churches make mistakes that we often see churches make mistakes that we often see churches make is that they communicate everything to is that they communicate everything to is that they communicate everything to everyone all the time. Yeah. So, you everyone all the time. Yeah. So, you everyone all the time. Yeah. So, you know, one of one of our distinctives in know, one of one of our distinctives in know, one of one of our distinctives in our community is that we want you, you our community is that we want you, you our community is that we want you, you know, serving in a ministry. We want you know, serving in a ministry. We want you know, serving in a ministry. We want you to know your spiritual gifts and we want to know your spiritual gifts and we want to know your spiritual gifts and we want you to leverage your spiritual gifts and you to leverage your spiritual gifts and you to leverage your spiritual gifts and your talents and your experiences to be your talents and your experiences to be your talents and your experiences to be serving in ministry. Uh, if you're a serving in ministry. Uh, if you're a serving in ministry. Uh, if you're a disciple of Jesus, we believe that you disciple of Jesus, we believe that you disciple of Jesus, we believe that you should be baptized. That's a step should be baptized. That's a step should be baptized. That's a step somewhere along the pathway. The somewhere along the pathway. The somewhere along the pathway. The challenge though is that in church challenge though is that in church challenge though is that in church communications, we tend to send the same communications, we tend to send the same communications, we tend to send the same message out to everyone all the time message out to everyone all the time message out to everyone all the time about everything. And so if I'm if I've about everything. And so if I'm if I've about everything. And so if I'm if I've been in the church for a long time, my been in the church for a long time, my been in the church for a long time, my tendency is typically to just tune all tendency is typically to just tune all tendency is typically to just tune all of that out because it's so much all the of that out because it's so much all the of that out because it's so much all the time. If I'm new in the church, it can time. If I'm new in the church, it can time. If I'm new in the church, it can actually be very confusing to me because actually be very confusing to me because actually be very confusing to me because you're sending me mixed messages on what you're sending me mixed messages on what you're sending me mixed messages on what my next step might be. Should it be get my next step might be. Should it be get my next step might be. Should it be get baptized or should I be serving in a baptized or should I be serving in a baptized or should I be serving in a ministry or should I be in a small group ministry or should I be in a small group ministry or should I be in a small group or should like what should I be doing?

or should like what should I be doing? or should like what should I be doing? Can you talk a little bit about how Can you talk a little bit about how Can you talk a little bit about how maybe using um using email, using text maybe using um using email, using text maybe using um using email, using text messaging, using an app, a church might messaging, using an app, a church might messaging, using an app, a church might be able to better develop um a be able to better develop um a be able to better develop um a communication process that allows them communication process that allows them communication process that allows them to customize and tailor the to customize and tailor the to customize and tailor the communication to people where they are communication to people where they are communication to people where they are on the pathway. Oh, it is so critically on the pathway. Oh, it is so critically on the pathway. Oh, it is so critically important that you know who you your important that you know who you your important that you know who you your people are. And your church management people are. And your church management people are. And your church management system is kind of the hub for all that. system is kind of the hub for all that. system is kind of the hub for all that. And if you don't really have that, you And if you don't really have that, you And if you don't really have that, you really need to talk with Barter or really need to talk with Barter or really need to talk with Barter or myself. will help you. We don't do myself. will help you. We don't do myself. will help you. We don't do church management systems, but we will church management systems, but we will church management systems, but we will give you guidance. So, most people have give you guidance. So, most people have give you guidance. So, most people have a church management system where all a church management system where all a church management system where all that data is stored. If you looked at that data is stored. If you looked at that data is stored. If you looked at me, I go to a church and if you looked me, I go to a church and if you looked me, I go to a church and if you looked at me and my family, you would see that at me and my family, you would see that at me and my family, you would see that we attend, that we give, that we serve, we attend, that we give, that we serve, we attend, that we give, that we serve, that we're in a group, that those kinds that we're in a group, that those kinds that we're in a group, that those kinds of things, or we're not, right? You of things, or we're not, right? You of things, or we're not, right? You would see when we were baptized, when we would see when we were baptized, when we would see when we were baptized, when we said yes to Jesus, that kind of stuff. said yes to Jesus, that kind of stuff. said yes to Jesus, that kind of stuff. So, all that's in a church management So, all that's in a church management So, all that's in a church management system. What Bart's saying is you could system. What Bart's saying is you could system. What Bart's saying is you could have specific tools and I we can have specific tools and I we can have specific tools and I we can introduce introduce you to them on how introduce introduce you to them on how introduce introduce you to them on how you can segment like for example if you can segment like for example if you can segment like for example if you're going to have a baptism weekend you're going to have a baptism weekend you're going to have a baptism weekend why on earth would you invite the entire why on earth would you invite the entire why on earth would you invite the entire church on you might announce that we're church on you might announce that we're church on you might announce that we're going to have a baptism weekend but you going to have a baptism weekend but you going to have a baptism weekend but you should have specific messages to people should have specific messages to people should have specific messages to people who have not yet been baptized and why who have not yet been baptized and why who have not yet been baptized and why should you get baptized and don't just should you get baptized and don't just should you get baptized and don't just say hey in two weeks we're going to have say hey in two weeks we're going to have say hey in two weeks we're going to have a baptism weekend if you ever thought a baptism weekend if you ever thought a baptism weekend if you ever thought about being baptized now's your chance I about being baptized now's your chance I about being baptized now's your chance I don't think people are thinking about don't think people are thinking about don't think people are thinking about getting baptized is instead you tell a getting baptized is instead you tell a getting baptized is instead you tell a story. Yo, meet Mike who was this guy.

story. Yo, meet Mike who was this guy. story. Yo, meet Mike who was this guy. He was a biker dude and blah blah blah He was a biker dude and blah blah blah He was a biker dude and blah blah blah blah blah and he gave his life to Jesus blah blah and he gave his life to Jesus blah blah and he gave his life to Jesus and he got dunked. His story is off the and he got dunked. His story is off the and he got dunked. His story is off the hook. It's amazing what God did in his hook. It's amazing what God did in his hook. It's amazing what God did in his life. That is the cool that you can tell life. That is the cool that you can tell life. That is the cool that you can tell a story and then you're inviting people. a story and then you're inviting people. a story and then you're inviting people. Hey, if this is if this is you, you Hey, if this is if this is you, you Hey, if this is if this is you, you haven't been baptized. Be like Mike. haven't been baptized. Be like Mike. haven't been baptized. Be like Mike. That's a slogan. Uh that just came That's a slogan. Uh that just came That's a slogan. Uh that just came out. People are going what are you out. People are going what are you out. People are going what are you talking about? eight people who know talking about? eight people who know talking about? eight people who know what that reference is. I I'm one of what that reference is. I I'm one of what that reference is. I I'm one of them, but there's there's a lot of them, but there's there's a lot of them, but there's there's a lot of people who have no idea what you're people who have no idea what you're people who have no idea what you're talking about. But you have you have you talking about. But you have you have you talking about. But you have you have you can segment your audience if you want to can segment your audience if you want to can segment your audience if you want to reach moms of, you know, kids that are reach moms of, you know, kids that are reach moms of, you know, kids that are like first through third grade or like first through third grade or like first through third grade or something like that. Your church something like that. Your church something like that. Your church management system can help you segment management system can help you segment management system can help you segment that list and then you can have direct that list and then you can have direct that list and then you can have direct communication to them via email or your communication to them via email or your communication to them via email or your or or text messaging or even in the app. or or text messaging or even in the app. or or text messaging or even in the app. Those those tools exist. So, as you get Those those tools exist. So, as you get Those those tools exist. So, as you get new people that come in and they new people that come in and they new people that come in and they selfidentify, you want to learn as much selfidentify, you want to learn as much selfidentify, you want to learn as much as you can about them so that you can as you can about them so that you can as you can about them so that you can help them on their journey and help them on their journey and help them on their journey and communicate with them. Well, and I tell communicate with them. Well, and I tell communicate with them. Well, and I tell you, the churches I work with that are you, the churches I work with that are you, the churches I work with that are doing that, they're engagement is is up doing that, they're engagement is is up doing that, they're engagement is is up and to the right like nobody's business and to the right like nobody's business and to the right like nobody's business because they actually are communicating because they actually are communicating because they actually are communicating a specific message to the right person.

a specific message to the right person. a specific message to the right person. Then there's some you just get it to Then there's some you just get it to Then there's some you just get it to everybody, right? Because it's all everybody, right? Because it's all everybody, right? Because it's all churchwide. But boy, breaking it down churchwide. But boy, breaking it down churchwide. But boy, breaking it down and making sure that's like comm's 101 and making sure that's like comm's 101 and making sure that's like comm's 101 to have a really really targeted message to have a really really targeted message to have a really really targeted message to that right audience. Yeah. I you to that right audience. Yeah. I you to that right audience. Yeah. I you know, every church leader can probably know, every church leader can probably know, every church leader can probably relate to this example that I'm going to relate to this example that I'm going to relate to this example that I'm going to give. Um children's ministry director give. Um children's ministry director give. Um children's ministry director comes to me, pastor, whatever, and says, comes to me, pastor, whatever, and says, comes to me, pastor, whatever, and says, "I need some volunteers. Can you "I need some volunteers. Can you "I need some volunteers. Can you announce on Sunday that we need announce on Sunday that we need announce on Sunday that we need volunteers for children's ministry?" And volunteers for children's ministry?" And volunteers for children's ministry?" And so pastor gets up on stage on Sunday so pastor gets up on stage on Sunday so pastor gets up on stage on Sunday morning and makes an announcement. We morning and makes an announcement. We morning and makes an announcement. We need volunteers for children's ministry. need volunteers for children's ministry. need volunteers for children's ministry. And usually that results in about And usually that results in about And usually that results in about nothing. No one signs up for children's nothing. No one signs up for children's nothing. No one signs up for children's ministry. Now, the opposite would be the ministry. Now, the opposite would be the ministry. Now, the opposite would be the most effective way, which is the most effective way, which is the most effective way, which is the children's ministry director children's ministry director children's ministry director specifically takes a list of people that specifically takes a list of people that specifically takes a list of people that they know could be really, really good they know could be really, really good they know could be really, really good gifts to that ministry and goes and taps gifts to that ministry and goes and taps gifts to that ministry and goes and taps people on the shoulder and says, "Hey, people on the shoulder and says, "Hey, people on the shoulder and says, "Hey, I'm having an interest meeting for I'm having an interest meeting for I'm having an interest meeting for people who might be interested in people who might be interested in people who might be interested in serving in the children's ministry. serving in the children's ministry. serving in the children's ministry. Would you come to that interest meeting Would you come to that interest meeting Would you come to that interest meeting just to hear? I'm not asking you to make just to hear? I'm not asking you to make just to hear? I'm not asking you to make a commitment to serve in the ministry, a commitment to serve in the ministry, a commitment to serve in the ministry, but just come to the lunch. Now, you get but just come to the lunch. Now, you get but just come to the lunch. Now, you get five, six, seven people that come to five, six, seven people that come to five, six, seven people that come to that lunch. They've had a personal tap that lunch. They've had a personal tap that lunch. They've had a personal tap on the shoulder from either the on the shoulder from either the on the shoulder from either the children's ministry director or someone children's ministry director or someone children's ministry director or someone who serves in that ministry. You're who serves in that ministry. You're who serves in that ministry. You're going to have some of those people that going to have some of those people that going to have some of those people that are going to show up, and a few of them are going to show up, and a few of them are going to show up, and a few of them are going to actually say yes, because are going to actually say yes, because are going to actually say yes, because that personal connection is so powerful.

that personal connection is so powerful. that personal connection is so powerful. What we're talking about is kind of a What we're talking about is kind of a What we're talking about is kind of a middle ground. It's a little less middle ground. It's a little less middle ground. It's a little less personal, but it's far less generic than personal, but it's far less generic than personal, but it's far less generic than the platform announcement, which is the platform announcement, which is the platform announcement, which is utilizing targeted email, targeted text utilizing targeted email, targeted text utilizing targeted email, targeted text messaging, or targeted app engagement messaging, or targeted app engagement messaging, or targeted app engagement that sends direct messaging to people that sends direct messaging to people that sends direct messaging to people who you think, hey, our church who you think, hey, our church who you think, hey, our church management software says number one, you management software says number one, you management software says number one, you aren't serving in a ministry. We're not aren't serving in a ministry. We're not aren't serving in a ministry. We're not verbalizing this, but this is this is verbalizing this, but this is this is verbalizing this, but this is this is what we're saying on the back end. Our what we're saying on the back end. Our what we're saying on the back end. Our church management software says you're church management software says you're church management software says you're not serving in a ministry. It says that not serving in a ministry. It says that not serving in a ministry. It says that you are a disciple of Jesus who has been you are a disciple of Jesus who has been you are a disciple of Jesus who has been baptized and that you have interests in baptized and that you have interests in baptized and that you have interests in arts, crafts, and painting or music and arts, crafts, and painting or music and arts, crafts, and painting or music and theater or whatever your interests are. theater or whatever your interests are. theater or whatever your interests are. We're gonna segment an audience with We're gonna segment an audience with We're gonna segment an audience with those people and send a message to them those people and send a message to them those people and send a message to them that again probably starts with telling that again probably starts with telling that again probably starts with telling a story about how some life of a child a story about how some life of a child a story about how some life of a child was impacted by their children's was impacted by their children's was impacted by their children's ministry small group leader or the the ministry small group leader or the the ministry small group leader or the the the youth ministry worship leader or the youth ministry worship leader or the youth ministry worship leader or whoever it is, right? Tell that story to whoever it is, right? Tell that story to whoever it is, right? Tell that story to really heighten the level of engagement really heighten the level of engagement really heighten the level of engagement and the possibility that people will and the possibility that people will and the possibility that people will take their next step. When my son was in take their next step. When my son was in take their next step. When my son was in elementary school, I served along the elementary school, I served along the elementary school, I served along the way in the different grade groups. And I way in the different grade groups. And I way in the different grade groups. And I always thought we could easily get other always thought we could easily get other always thought we could easily get other dads. We could send a a a tech an email dads. We could send a a a tech an email dads. We could send a a a tech an email that says, "Hey, Jason, CJ needs you in that says, "Hey, Jason, CJ needs you in that says, "Hey, Jason, CJ needs you in his Sunday school class and his buddies his Sunday school class and his buddies his Sunday school class and his buddies because he needs an adult leader." And because he needs an adult leader." And because he needs an adult leader." And like you're like you're leading your like you're like you're leading your like you're like you're leading your son. Spend time with him on on Sunday son. Spend time with him on on Sunday son. Spend time with him on on Sunday with him and his his friends who need

with him and his his friends who need with him and his his friends who need who need a leader. We absolutely need who need a leader. We absolutely need who need a leader. We absolutely need some help here because we're growing too some help here because we're growing too some help here because we're growing too fast. you know, it's like, oh yeah, I fast. you know, it's like, oh yeah, I fast. you know, it's like, oh yeah, I could really spend some time with my son could really spend some time with my son could really spend some time with my son and his buddies in the fourth or fifth and his buddies in the fourth or fifth and his buddies in the fourth or fifth or sixth grade boys classroom and and or sixth grade boys classroom and and or sixth grade boys classroom and and you know, ju give an hour a week. That's you know, ju give an hour a week. That's you know, ju give an hour a week. That's not a very big demand on my on my not a very big demand on my on my not a very big demand on my on my schedule. It's on Sunday, right? So, you schedule. It's on Sunday, right? So, you schedule. It's on Sunday, right? So, you could be kind of creative in that could be kind of creative in that could be kind of creative in that messaging, but your point is first of messaging, but your point is first of messaging, but your point is first of all, you got to have the you got to be all, you got to have the you got to be all, you got to have the you got to be able to identify the list. Then you can able to identify the list. Then you can able to identify the list. Then you can kind of get creative on what that what kind of get creative on what that what kind of get creative on what that what that message should be. It should always that message should be. It should always that message should be. It should always be through the through the context of be through the through the context of be through the through the context of the story. the story. the story. Yeah. Now, to rewind to where we started Yeah. Now, to rewind to where we started Yeah. Now, to rewind to where we started this conversation, which is you're this conversation, which is you're this conversation, which is you're probably wasting your money if you're probably wasting your money if you're probably wasting your money if you're marketing inviting people to come to marketing inviting people to come to marketing inviting people to come to your church and you don't have a clear your church and you don't have a clear your church and you don't have a clear and specific way to help them take their and specific way to help them take their and specific way to help them take their first steps and their next steps. And first steps and their next steps. And first steps and their next steps. And obviously again going back to it obviously again going back to it obviously again going back to it culturally you need to make sure that culturally you need to make sure that culturally you need to make sure that culturally your weekend worship culturally your weekend worship culturally your weekend worship experience is one that's full of experience is one that's full of experience is one that's full of hospitality that it's an easy on-ramp hospitality that it's an easy on-ramp hospitality that it's an easy on-ramp for people who are far from God who are for people who are far from God who are for people who are far from God who are kicking the tires of faith for the very kicking the tires of faith for the very kicking the tires of faith for the very first time or maybe they're just new in first time or maybe they're just new in first time or maybe they're just new in the community and they're looking for the community and they're looking for the community and they're looking for their new spiritual home their new their their new spiritual home their new their their new spiritual home their new their new church family. But the second thing new church family. But the second thing new church family. But the second thing is you have to have a system and a is you have to have a system and a is you have to have a system and a process for number one getting their process for number one getting their process for number one getting their information and number two communicating information and number two communicating information and number two communicating to them in an effective and consistent to them in an effective and consistent to them in an effective and consistent way that helps them know and understand way that helps them know and understand way that helps them know and understand what their next steps need to be. And so what their next steps need to be. And so what their next steps need to be. And so um that's kind of where we started.

um that's kind of where we started. um that's kind of where we started. That's kind of where we'll end. Do you That's kind of where we'll end. Do you That's kind of where we'll end. Do you have any parting shots on this before we have any parting shots on this before we have any parting shots on this before we wrap this episode up? No. But if you wrap this episode up? No. But if you wrap this episode up? No. But if you are wondering how you even how do I even are wondering how you even how do I even are wondering how you even how do I even do that? You know, reach out to us. We do that? You know, reach out to us. We do that? You know, reach out to us. We love to talk with churches and explain love to talk with churches and explain love to talk with churches and explain and go deeper because, you know, it's and go deeper because, you know, it's and go deeper because, you know, it's it's all personalized based on what it's all personalized based on what it's all personalized based on what tools you have and what your leadership tools you have and what your leadership tools you have and what your leadership is trying to accomplish. And those are is trying to accomplish. And those are is trying to accomplish. And those are great questions to ask and just kind of great questions to ask and just kind of great questions to ask and just kind of throw around. So, I'd say schedule some throw around. So, I'd say schedule some throw around. So, I'd say schedule some time with Bart or myself or any one of time with Bart or myself or any one of time with Bart or myself or any one of our coaches and we can help lead through our coaches and we can help lead through our coaches and we can help lead through that that conversation. Yeah. If you're that that conversation. Yeah. If you're that that conversation. Yeah. If you're a partner church with missional a partner church with missional a partner church with missional marketing, you already have a coach and marketing, you already have a coach and marketing, you already have a coach and you can engage with your coach and say, you can engage with your coach and say, you can engage with your coach and say, "Hey, I listened to this episode and can "Hey, I listened to this episode and can "Hey, I listened to this episode and can you get me on a call with Bart or Jason you get me on a call with Bart or Jason you get me on a call with Bart or Jason to talk about this?" and they'd be happy to talk about this?" and they'd be happy to talk about this?" and they'd be happy to do that. If you're not a partner to do that. If you're not a partner to do that. If you're not a partner church with missional marketing and you church with missional marketing and you church with missional marketing and you don't use our services, shame on you. don't use our services, shame on you. don't use our services, shame on you. No, I'm just kidding. No shame on you. No, I'm just kidding. No shame on you. No, I'm just kidding. No shame on you. Uh go to our website, Uh go to our website, Uh go to our website, missionalmarketing.com, and you can missionalmarketing.com, and you can missionalmarketing.com, and you can actually schedule a call and just put in actually schedule a call and just put in actually schedule a call and just put in the notes. Uh I think you can directly the notes. Uh I think you can directly the notes. Uh I think you can directly schedule a call with Jason and maybe you schedule a call with Jason and maybe you schedule a call with Jason and maybe you get Jason or maybe you get me. Uh I know get Jason or maybe you get me. Uh I know get Jason or maybe you get me. Uh I know I'm I'm not the one of the foremost I'm I'm not the one of the foremost I'm I'm not the one of the foremost thought leaders in church communications thought leaders in church communications thought leaders in church communications and marketing uh because AI didn't say and marketing uh because AI didn't say and marketing uh because AI didn't say so, but I'd be happy to get on that call so, but I'd be happy to get on that call so, but I'd be happy to get on that call and help out as well. Uh hey, if you and help out as well. Uh hey, if you and help out as well. Uh hey, if you made it to the end of this episode, we made it to the end of this episode, we made it to the end of this episode, we thank you so much for sticking with us.

thank you so much for sticking with us. thank you so much for sticking with us. Uh this was a little bit abbreviated Uh this was a little bit abbreviated Uh this was a little bit abbreviated compared to what our usual episodes are. compared to what our usual episodes are. compared to what our usual episodes are. If you haven't yet subscribed wherever If you haven't yet subscribed wherever If you haven't yet subscribed wherever you listen to your favorite podcast, you listen to your favorite podcast, you listen to your favorite podcast, make sure that you do that. If you're make sure that you do that. If you're make sure that you do that. If you're watching on our YouTube channel, make watching on our YouTube channel, make watching on our YouTube channel, make sure you give us a thumbs up. You can sure you give us a thumbs up. You can sure you give us a thumbs up. You can leave a comment there. We love to engage leave a comment there. We love to engage leave a comment there. We love to engage with you. Otherwise, until we get to our with you. Otherwise, until we get to our with you. Otherwise, until we get to our next uh episode, I'm Bart Blair with next uh episode, I'm Bart Blair with next uh episode, I'm Bart Blair with Jason Hamrock. See you later. See you. Jason Hamrock. See you later. See you. Jason Hamrock. See you later. See you. [Music]