Another Awesome Podcast for Churches | Tim Lucas & Lauren Bercarich from Liquid Church, New Jersey

[Music] [Music] so I I really see this as this so I I really see this as this so I I really see this as this opportunity opportunity opportunity um again to rethink our model of um again to rethink our model of um again to rethink our model of ministry where we want to we actually ministry where we want to we actually ministry where we want to we actually want to be agnostic we don't care if want to be agnostic we don't care if want to be agnostic we don't care if people come online or in person because people come online or in person because people come online or in person because we believe one feeds the other I love we believe one feeds the other I love we believe one feeds the other I love that Tim just saying that we're trying that Tim just saying that we're trying that Tim just saying that we're trying to to to um get rid of the idea that there's a um get rid of the idea that there's a um get rid of the idea that there's a hierarchy that physical Trump's digital hierarchy that physical Trump's digital hierarchy that physical Trump's digital which was the way it was pre-covered which was the way it was pre-covered which was the way it was pre-covered that's right we're trying to say hey we that's right we're trying to say hey we that's right we're trying to say hey we just want people to come and know the just want people to come and know the just want people to come and know the gospel and know Jesus and whether that gospel and know Jesus and whether that gospel and know Jesus and whether that happens whether the front door is happens whether the front door is happens whether the front door is digital whether it's physical we don't digital whether it's physical we don't digital whether it's physical we don't care care care hey welcome to season three episode 11 hey welcome to season three episode 11 hey welcome to season three episode 11 of the missional marketing podcast I'm of the missional marketing podcast I'm of the missional marketing podcast I'm Bart Blair and it's my privilege to Bart Blair and it's my privilege to Bart Blair and it's my privilege to welcome you to this week's episode uh if welcome you to this week's episode uh if welcome you to this week's episode uh if you are new to our show we just want to you are new to our show we just want to you are new to our show we just want to let you know that we produce this let you know that we produce this let you know that we produce this podcast for the purpose of helping your podcast for the purpose of helping your podcast for the purpose of helping your church grow by leveraging digital church grow by leveraging digital church grow by leveraging digital marketing and effective Communications marketing and effective Communications marketing and effective Communications uh we know that the bulk of the people uh we know that the bulk of the people uh we know that the bulk of the people who listen to this podcast while not who listen to this podcast while not who listen to this podcast while not exclusively uh are Church Communications exclusively uh are Church Communications exclusively uh are Church Communications directors Church comms professionals or directors Church comms professionals or directors Church comms professionals or church comms volunteers or maybe you church comms volunteers or maybe you church comms volunteers or maybe you serve on a team in a church and serve on a team in a church and serve on a team in a church and Communications and marketing just Communications and marketing just Communications and marketing just happens to fall on your plate we know happens to fall on your plate we know happens to fall on your plate we know that a lot of churches people wear many that a lot of churches people wear many that a lot of churches people wear many many hats and so we hope that you're many hats and so we hope that you're many hats and so we hope that you're finding this podcast helpful with the finding this podcast helpful with the finding this podcast helpful with the content that we're creating for you content that we're creating for you content that we're creating for you every week and if you do make sure that every week and if you do make sure that every week and if you do make sure that you leave us a rating or review wherever you leave us a rating or review wherever you leave us a rating or review wherever you're consuming whether that's on your you're consuming whether that's on your you're consuming whether that's on your favorite podcasting app or on the favorite podcasting app or on the favorite podcasting app or on the YouTube channel and if you are watching YouTube channel and if you are watching YouTube channel and if you are watching on the YouTube channel and you're on the YouTube channel and you're on the YouTube channel and you're subscribed here make sure that you ring subscribed here make sure that you ring subscribed here make sure that you ring the bell so that you don't miss any the bell so that 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future episodes in fact wherever you're future episodes in fact wherever you're listening or watching you should listening or watching you should listening or watching you should subscribe there so that you don't miss subscribe there so that you don't miss subscribe there so that you don't miss any of the great stuff that we're any of the great stuff that we're any of the great stuff that we're creating for you again our privilege to creating for you again our privilege to creating for you again our privilege to to do this podcast one of the things to do this podcast one of the things to do this podcast one of the things that I really enjoyed about doing this that I really enjoyed about doing this that I really enjoyed about doing this podcast over the course of the last two podcast over the course of the last two podcast over the course of the last two and a half years now is the opportunity and a half years now is the opportunity and a half years now is the opportunity that we have to meet a lot of people uh that we have to meet a lot of people uh that we have to meet a lot of people uh who Jason and I look up to and we who Jason and I look up to and we who Jason and I look up to and we respect in Ministry and in marketing uh respect in Ministry and in marketing uh respect in Ministry and in marketing uh and this episode is no exception to that and this episode is no exception to that and this episode is no exception to that in fact I am a little bit bummed because in fact I am a little bit bummed because in fact I am a little bit bummed because now I'm admitted I'm a lot bummed that I now I'm admitted I'm a lot bummed that I now I'm admitted I'm a lot bummed that I didn't get to actually participate in didn't get to actually participate in didn't get to actually participate in this podcast I was having terrible this podcast I was having terrible this podcast I was having terrible internet issues on the day that Jason internet issues on the day that Jason internet issues on the day that Jason and I were scheduled to record this and I were scheduled to record this and I were scheduled to record this interview so it's Jason alone Jason is interview so it's Jason alone Jason is interview so it's Jason alone Jason is the CEO of missional marketing and he is the CEO of missional marketing and he is the CEO of missional marketing and he is my podcast co-host and in this episode my podcast co-host and in this episode my podcast co-host and in this episode he is interviewing uh Pastor Tim Lucas he is interviewing uh Pastor Tim Lucas he is interviewing uh Pastor Tim Lucas uh from liquid church and his new uh from liquid church and his new uh from liquid church and his new podcast co-host Lauren who is the podcast co-host Lauren who is the podcast co-host Lauren who is the communications director at liquid communications director at liquid communications director at liquid they've launched a new podcast called they've launched a new podcast called they've launched a new podcast called The Church changer podcast in fact this The Church changer podcast in fact this The Church changer podcast in fact this is a podcast episode uh introducing you is a podcast episode uh introducing you is a podcast episode uh introducing you to a new podcast and if you don't know to a new podcast and if you don't know to a new podcast and if you don't know Liquid Church in New Jersey Liquid Church in New Jersey Liquid Church in New Jersey Super Creative I would have probably Super Creative I would have probably Super Creative I would have probably fanboyed a little bit on this episode fanboyed a little bit on this episode fanboyed a little bit on this episode because I've been a big liquid church because I've been a big liquid church because I've been a big liquid church and Tim Lucas follower for a long time and Tim Lucas follower for a long time and Tim Lucas follower for a long time in fact when I was pastoring my last in fact when I was pastoring my last in fact when I was pastoring my last church I borrowed a fair bit of content church I borrowed a fair bit of content church I borrowed a fair bit of content from liquid church and when I say from liquid church and when I say from liquid church and when I say borrowed I did it legitimately I borrowed I did it legitimately I borrowed I did it legitimately I actually reached out to their actually reached out to their actually reached out to their Communications team and they sent me Communications team and they sent me Communications team and they sent me graphics and videos and stuff it was graphics and videos and stuff it was graphics and videos and stuff it was pretty awesome I did not get a chance to pretty awesome I did not get a chance to pretty awesome I did not get a chance to be on this podcast but it is a be on this podcast but it is a be on this podcast but it is a phenomenal conversation nonetheless I

phenomenal conversation nonetheless I phenomenal conversation nonetheless I think you're really going to enjoy it think you're really going to enjoy it think you're really going to enjoy it and really appreciate it and make sure and really appreciate it and make sure and really appreciate it and make sure that after you finish listening to this that after you finish listening to this that after you finish listening to this podcast you go and you tune in to the podcast you go and you tune in to the podcast you go and you tune in to the latest episode of church changer and latest episode of church changer and latest episode of church changer and make sure that you subscribe to their make sure that you subscribe to their make sure that you subscribe to their podcast there you won't regret it well podcast there you won't regret it well podcast there you won't regret it well thanks again for tuning in to the thanks again for tuning in to the thanks again for tuning in to the missional marketing podcast we know that missional marketing podcast we know that missional marketing podcast we know that you have a lot of choices about the way you have a lot of choices about the way you have a lot of choices about the way that you spend your time a lot of that you spend your time a lot of that you spend your time a lot of podcasts to choose from and the fact podcasts to choose from and the fact podcasts to choose from and the fact that you would listen to ours we're that you would listen to ours we're that you would listen to ours we're really privileged so thanks again and really privileged so thanks again and really privileged so thanks again and enjoy the show enjoy the show enjoy the show well hey welcome back to the podcast I well hey welcome back to the podcast I well hey welcome back to the podcast I have Pastor Tim and Lauren with liquid have Pastor Tim and Lauren with liquid have Pastor Tim and Lauren with liquid church and I'm excited about our church and I'm excited about our church and I'm excited about our conversation today and what they're conversation today and what they're conversation today and what they're going to bring and what they're going to going to bring and what they're going to going to bring and what they're going to share with us you're going to benefit share with us you're going to benefit share with us you're going to benefit from it a lot so Pastor Tim take a from it a lot so Pastor Tim take a from it a lot so Pastor Tim take a second and just explain to us the story second and just explain to us the story second and just explain to us the story of liquid and where you are today uh of liquid and where you are today uh of liquid and where you are today uh great to be with you Jason yeah so um great to be with you Jason yeah so um great to be with you Jason yeah so um Liquid Church was started in 2007 A.D Liquid Church was started in 2007 A.D Liquid Church was started in 2007 A.D so back in the uh you know early 2000s so back in the uh you know early 2000s so back in the uh you know early 2000s and really I'm The Accidental Church and really I'm The Accidental Church and really I'm The Accidental Church planter I had no formal training as a planter I had no formal training as a planter I had no formal training as a church planter um my wife and I met out church planter um my wife and I met out church planter um my wife and I met out at Wheaton College in Chicago uh where I at Wheaton College in Chicago uh where I at Wheaton College in Chicago uh where I was an English major but they make you was an English major but they make you was an English major but they make you take take take um Bible and theology courses which I um Bible and theology courses which I um Bible and theology courses which I said what will you ever do with that but God has a sense of humor he actually but God has a sense of humor he actually uh I I was an English High School uh I I was an English High School uh I I was an English High School teacher uh for for several years and God teacher uh for for several years and God teacher uh for for several years and God used that kind of in my training to used that kind of in my training to used that kind of in my training to learn how to reach um kind of the Next learn how to reach um kind of the Next learn how to reach um kind of the Next Generation using a combination of Generation using a combination of Generation using a combination of visuals and narrative in Creative

visuals and narrative in Creative visuals and narrative in Creative preaching and so we started teaching in preaching and so we started teaching in preaching and so we started teaching in a little Sunday school class of 8 20 a little Sunday school class of 8 20 a little Sunday school class of 8 20 somethings and uh we've been on a rocket somethings and uh we've been on a rocket somethings and uh we've been on a rocket ship ride ever since uh we we have seven ship ride ever since uh we we have seven ship ride ever since uh we we have seven campuses now about 5 000 people in the campuses now about 5 000 people in the campuses now about 5 000 people in the New Jersey metro area so we're right New Jersey metro area so we're right New Jersey metro area so we're right outside of Manhattan and uh it's been a outside of Manhattan and uh it's been a outside of Manhattan and uh it's been a Incredible Journey with Jesus and he's Incredible Journey with Jesus and he's Incredible Journey with Jesus and he's brought along some best friends like brought along some best friends like brought along some best friends like Lauren to speed the mission wow okay Lauren to speed the mission wow okay Lauren to speed the mission wow okay okay Lawrence give our audience a little okay Lawrence give our audience a little okay Lawrence give our audience a little bit of your background yeah sure I'd bit of your background yeah sure I'd bit of your background yeah sure I'd love to love to love to um so I am the digital director at um so I am the digital director at um so I am the digital director at Liquid Church which is a new role for us Liquid Church which is a new role for us Liquid Church which is a new role for us we're continuing to lean more into we're continuing to lean more into we're continuing to lean more into becoming a hybrid Church what does becoming a hybrid Church what does becoming a hybrid Church what does digital Ministry look like for us but digital Ministry look like for us but digital Ministry look like for us but before that my title was communications before that my title was communications before that my title was communications director and I served in that capacity director and I served in that capacity director and I served in that capacity for seven years at liquid but prior to for seven years at liquid but prior to for seven years at liquid but prior to that I was a local news reporter uh for that I was a local news reporter uh for that I was a local news reporter uh for you know you see those people like you know you see those people like you know you see those people like hanging onto the pole in the middle of a hanging onto the pole in the middle of a hanging onto the pole in the middle of a hurricane hurricane hurricane that was me he came into public that was me he came into public that was me he came into public relations and liquid was just my church relations and liquid was just my church relations and liquid was just my church and then you know your campus pastor had and then you know your campus pastor had and then you know your campus pastor had that conversation with you and suddenly that conversation with you and suddenly that conversation with you and suddenly you're working for the church and your you're working for the church and your you're working for the church and your life took a hard right and it's awesome life took a hard right and it's awesome life took a hard right and it's awesome I love that I relate better to your I love that I relate better to your I love that I relate better to your story than your story Pastor okay story than your story Pastor okay story than your story Pastor okay thank you for that okay so Pastor I thank you for that okay so Pastor I thank you for that okay so Pastor I wanna I wanna pick your brain a little wanna I wanna pick your brain a little wanna I wanna pick your brain a little bit about you know coming out of covid bit about you know coming out of covid bit about you know coming out of covid and and whatever that means and uh and and whatever that means and uh and and whatever that means and uh that's different for everybody but that's different for everybody but that's different for everybody but what do you think of when you think of what do you think of when you think of what do you think of when you think of where the future is for liquid and how where the future is for liquid and how where the future is for liquid and how does digital play a role in that and

does digital play a role in that and does digital play a role in that and what goes through your head yeah I think what goes through your head yeah I think what goes through your head yeah I think like a lot of pastors I've been on a like a lot of pastors I've been on a like a lot of pastors I've been on a journey uh Continuum when it comes to journey uh Continuum when it comes to journey uh Continuum when it comes to digital you know we have always had digital you know we have always had digital you know we have always had Church online we were early adopters Church online we were early adopters Church online we were early adopters back in 2008 so we're only a year or two back in 2008 so we're only a year or two back in 2008 so we're only a year or two into the church okay we started Church into the church okay we started Church into the church okay we started Church online campus we we actually brought in online campus we we actually brought in online campus we we actually brought in a guy Dave Adamson who you may know uh a guy Dave Adamson who you may know uh a guy Dave Adamson who you may know uh Ozzy Dave yes Ozzy Dave yes move from Ozzy Dave yes Ozzy Dave yes move from Ozzy Dave yes Ozzy Dave yes move from Australia to New Jersey be the eighth Australia to New Jersey be the eighth Australia to New Jersey be the eighth Church online Pastor in the world but I Church online Pastor in the world but I Church online Pastor in the world but I think candidly it really in my mind as think candidly it really in my mind as think candidly it really in my mind as it is for mostly pastors served as like it is for mostly pastors served as like it is for mostly pastors served as like a backup a backup a backup oh you know most people are going to oh you know most people are going to oh you know most people are going to come in person but if someone was sick come in person but if someone was sick come in person but if someone was sick or they're traveling they may watch or they're traveling they may watch or they're traveling they may watch online and so we really didn't have any online and so we really didn't have any online and so we really didn't have any sort of clear discipleship pathway or sort of clear discipleship pathway or sort of clear discipleship pathway or strategic plan for integrating people strategic plan for integrating people strategic plan for integrating people into the life of the church and um and into the life of the church and um and into the life of the church and um and so you know on a typical Sunday we'd so you know on a typical Sunday we'd so you know on a typical Sunday we'd have thousands in person then you know have thousands in person then you know have thousands in person then you know some hundreds online maybe a thousand some hundreds online maybe a thousand some hundreds online maybe a thousand people but people but people but um again we thought it was just sort of um again we thought it was just sort of um again we thought it was just sort of like that's the backup plan like that's the backup plan like that's the backup plan and now I have moved I find this but and now I have moved I find this but and now I have moved I find this but this way I have a coaching Network and I this way I have a coaching Network and I this way I have a coaching Network and I pulled the guys I said listen tell me pulled the guys I said listen tell me pulled the guys I said listen tell me where you are on the continue when it where you are on the continue when it where you are on the continue when it comes to Church online kind of the comes to Church online kind of the comes to Church online kind of the digital discipleship okay are you an digital discipleship okay are you an digital discipleship okay are you an atheist I don't believe in it agnostic I atheist I don't believe in it agnostic I atheist I don't believe in it agnostic I I'm open but I have some doubts or are I'm open but I have some doubts or are I'm open but I have some doubts or are you an activist you an activist you an activist and it's really and it's really and it's really um a little bit discouraging Jason I um a little bit discouraging Jason I um a little bit discouraging Jason I found a lot of pastors post covid are found a lot of pastors post covid are found a lot of pastors post covid are actually almost going back where they actually almost going back where they actually almost going back where they were open to streaming because hey we were open to streaming because hey we were open to streaming because hey we have no other choice but now they're

have no other choice but now they're have no other choice but now they're like okay it's like a a you know a like okay it's like a a you know a like okay it's like a a you know a short-term missions trip that went bad short-term missions trip that went bad short-term missions trip that went bad can we just get back into the building can we just get back into the building can we just get back into the building that's over and we've moved along I've that's over and we've moved along I've that's over and we've moved along I've moved from um again more of an agnostic moved from um again more of an agnostic moved from um again more of an agnostic where I had some questions can people where I had some questions can people where I had some questions can people really come to know Jesus online but really come to know Jesus online but really come to know Jesus online but more than that be integrated into the more than that be integrated into the more than that be integrated into the life of the church to now more of an life of the church to now more of an life of the church to now more of an activist I believe we are on the hinge activist I believe we are on the hinge activist I believe we are on the hinge point of one of those moments in history point of one of those moments in history point of one of those moments in history where new Communications bring about an where new Communications bring about an where new Communications bring about an explosion and evangelism that wouldn't explosion and evangelism that wouldn't explosion and evangelism that wouldn't have been possible any other way and so have been possible any other way and so have been possible any other way and so to kind of throw my weight behind it you to kind of throw my weight behind it you to kind of throw my weight behind it you know you can say all the great things know you can say all the great things know you can say all the great things about you know what we believe in about you know what we believe in about you know what we believe in digital but it's really until you invest digital but it's really until you invest digital but it's really until you invest your best people and so that's when we your best people and so that's when we your best people and so that's when we asked Lauren if she would accept a asked Lauren if she would accept a asked Lauren if she would accept a promotion to really promotion to really promotion to really um she was a wonderful communications um she was a wonderful communications um she was a wonderful communications director built out our comms Department director built out our comms Department director built out our comms Department over seven years but said hey we need a over seven years but said hey we need a over seven years but said hey we need a three to five year plan to really scale three to five year plan to really scale three to five year plan to really scale digital and build that brand new digital and build that brand new digital and build that brand new department and I thank God she said yes department and I thank God she said yes department and I thank God she said yes Lauren awesome that's some that's a big Lauren awesome that's some that's a big Lauren awesome that's some that's a big tall order tall order tall order um um um what is so tell our audience what that what is so tell our audience what that what is so tell our audience what that looks like in your from your perspective looks like in your from your perspective looks like in your from your perspective on the strategy and how do you measure on the strategy and how do you measure on the strategy and how do you measure discipleship when it comes to an online discipleship when it comes to an online discipleship when it comes to an online community just community just community just peel the onion back a little bit and go peel the onion back a little bit and go peel the onion back a little bit and go deep into that sure I'd love to first I deep into that sure I'd love to first I deep into that sure I'd love to first I want to acknowledge that it can be a bit want to acknowledge that it can be a bit want to acknowledge that it can be a bit overwhelming because there's so much overwhelming because there's so much overwhelming because there's so much that needs to be done that could be done that needs to be done that could be done that needs to be done that could be done there's so many paths to take right and

there's so many paths to take right and there's so many paths to take right and everybody has limited bandwidth whether everybody has limited bandwidth whether everybody has limited bandwidth whether you're working with paid staff or you're working with paid staff or you're working with paid staff or volunteers so I want to acknowledge that volunteers so I want to acknowledge that volunteers so I want to acknowledge that when I think about our strategy I kind when I think about our strategy I kind when I think about our strategy I kind of break it into different buckets so as of break it into different buckets so as of break it into different buckets so as an overall hybrid Church strategy and I an overall hybrid Church strategy and I an overall hybrid Church strategy and I like to use the word hybrid because I like to use the word hybrid because I like to use the word hybrid because I don't want to think of people in one don't want to think of people in one don't want to think of people in one camp or another like they're either camp or another like they're either camp or another like they're either online or they're in person actually online or they're in person actually online or they're in person actually people are moving fluidly between the people are moving fluidly between the people are moving fluidly between the two spaces and we want to encourage that two spaces and we want to encourage that two spaces and we want to encourage that um I am you know I'm on staff and I'm a um I am you know I'm on staff and I'm a um I am you know I'm on staff and I'm a great example of somebody who leverages great example of somebody who leverages great example of somebody who leverages the hybrid flexibility of what we offer the hybrid flexibility of what we offer the hybrid flexibility of what we offer because I have three small children five because I have three small children five because I have three small children five and under at home and it's not always and under at home and it's not always and under at home and it's not always possible for me to round everybody up possible for me to round everybody up possible for me to round everybody up and get them to a physical space so I and get them to a physical space so I and get them to a physical space so I kind of pick and choose we might do some kind of pick and choose we might do some kind of pick and choose we might do some worship in the house but we're going to worship in the house but we're going to worship in the house but we're going to physically attend the Outreach so first physically attend the Outreach so first physically attend the Outreach so first of all just to paint that picture is of all just to paint that picture is of all just to paint that picture is we're not trying to put people in camps we're not trying to put people in camps we're not trying to put people in camps we think it's a both and strategy where we think it's a both and strategy where we think it's a both and strategy where people are moving between the two spaces people are moving between the two spaces people are moving between the two spaces and then we try to break it into buckets and then we try to break it into buckets and then we try to break it into buckets so one is Church online yes what are you so one is Church online yes what are you so one is Church online yes what are you actually doing in terms of delivering actually doing in terms of delivering actually doing in terms of delivering your Sunday content uh to your audience your Sunday content uh to your audience your Sunday content uh to your audience what does that look like do you have an what does that look like do you have an what does that look like do you have an on-demand strategy what is your live on-demand strategy what is your live on-demand strategy what is your live streaming like on Sunday so that's streaming like on Sunday so that's streaming like on Sunday so that's considering considering considering um service times and platforms and how um service times and platforms and how um service times and platforms and how are you actually caring for those people are you actually caring for those people are you actually caring for those people do you have a dedicated Pastor or your do you have a dedicated Pastor or your do you have a dedicated Pastor or your online campus do you have a campus online campus do you have a campus online campus do you have a campus manager maybe who's helping get them manager maybe who's helping get them manager maybe who's helping get them people into groups and teams so that's

people into groups and teams so that's people into groups and teams so that's one bucket of looking at that but I one bucket of looking at that but I one bucket of looking at that but I think in the past we have thought about think in the past we have thought about think in the past we have thought about anything online is just Church online anything online is just Church online anything online is just Church online like oh it's Church online I have a like oh it's Church online I have a like oh it's Church online I have a digital strategy no no that's just like digital strategy no no that's just like digital strategy no no that's just like you know 60 to 90 minutes on one day of you know 60 to 90 minutes on one day of you know 60 to 90 minutes on one day of the week and so what we really want to the week and so what we really want to the week and so what we really want to be moving toward is seven days of be moving toward is seven days of be moving toward is seven days of discipleship so we are reaching people discipleship so we are reaching people discipleship so we are reaching people 24 7 we have that capacity to do that 24 7 we have that capacity to do that 24 7 we have that capacity to do that and in fact online allows us to do that and in fact online allows us to do that and in fact online allows us to do that better than physical ever can and which better than physical ever can and which better than physical ever can and which is how they work together so well so is how they work together so well so is how they work together so well so other buckets we're looking at are other buckets we're looking at are other buckets we're looking at are um digital content creation right so um digital content creation right so um digital content creation right so what content can we be putting out there what content can we be putting out there what content can we be putting out there that is addressing people's felt needs that is addressing people's felt needs that is addressing people's felt needs so for example if somebody goes to so for example if somebody goes to so for example if somebody goes to Google and they ask a question like how Google and they ask a question like how Google and they ask a question like how can I fix my marriage or marriage can I fix my marriage or marriage can I fix my marriage or marriage counseling marriage support you know counseling marriage support you know counseling marriage support you know maybe we come up in the results because maybe we come up in the results because maybe we come up in the results because we have support groups we have message we have support groups we have message we have support groups we have message series we have a Blog series we have series we have a Blog series we have series we have a Blog series we have video content and so your first video content and so your first video content and so your first experience with us might be by experience with us might be by experience with us might be by experiencing some of our content yeah so experiencing some of our content yeah so experiencing some of our content yeah so that's another bucket that's another bucket that's another bucket um go ahead go ahead no I love that um go ahead go ahead no I love that um go ahead go ahead no I love that because that that speaks into those felt because that that speaks into those felt because that that speaks into those felt need issues and you see you I love your need issues and you see you I love your need issues and you see you I love your hybrid hybrid hybrid um you can bounce back and forth a um you can bounce back and forth a um you can bounce back and forth a little bit because that's just reality little bit because that's just reality little bit because that's just reality now some people can't because they live now some people can't because they live now some people can't because they live like 300 miles away and that's okay so like 300 miles away and that's okay so like 300 miles away and that's okay so you you but you're building around you you but you're building around you you but you're building around You're Building Systems in order to You're Building Systems in order to You're Building Systems in order to engage those people uh and Pastor you've engage those people uh and Pastor you've engage those people uh and Pastor you've really you've not only blessed this but really you've not only blessed this but really you've not only blessed this but you've you've put resources a lot of

you've you've put resources a lot of you've you've put resources a lot of resources behind this because you resources behind this because you resources behind this because you believe in it how believe in it how believe in it how um how can somebody go to their um how can somebody go to their um how can somebody go to their leadership and say we we really need to leadership and say we we really need to leadership and say we we really need to do this what would you say to them to I do this what would you say to them to I do this what would you say to them to I mean what caused you to realize you mean what caused you to realize you mean what caused you to realize you should do this should do this should do this you know the Evangelist God used in my you know the Evangelist God used in my you know the Evangelist God used in my life was a man named Frank Blake the life was a man named Frank Blake the life was a man named Frank Blake the former CEO of Home Depot former CEO of Home Depot former CEO of Home Depot I was actually at a pastor's conference I was actually at a pastor's conference I was actually at a pastor's conference out in Georgia and you know he had a out in Georgia and you know he had a out in Georgia and you know he had a breakout and I thought oh Home Depot you breakout and I thought oh Home Depot you breakout and I thought oh Home Depot you know I I certainly ordered you know know I I certainly ordered you know know I I certainly ordered you know grass seed and fertilizer in the spring grass seed and fertilizer in the spring grass seed and fertilizer in the spring you know and it was amazing he is about you know and it was amazing he is about you know and it was amazing he is about 80 years old but he told the story he's 80 years old but he told the story he's 80 years old but he told the story he's a Believer and involved in church down a Believer and involved in church down a Believer and involved in church down south but he said you know when he took south but he said you know when he took south but he said you know when he took over Home Depot CEO in 2004 over Home Depot CEO in 2004 over Home Depot CEO in 2004 um they were opening one bricks and um they were opening one bricks and um they were opening one bricks and mortar Superstore every other day so can mortar Superstore every other day so can mortar Superstore every other day so can you imagine think like campus expansion you imagine think like campus expansion you imagine think like campus expansion a new store you know 100 000 square feet a new store you know 100 000 square feet a new store you know 100 000 square feet every other day all in on bricks and every other day all in on bricks and every other day all in on bricks and mortar foot traffic mortar foot traffic mortar foot traffic and he said his first decision SEO is to and he said his first decision SEO is to and he said his first decision SEO is to say we're hitting pause on that and say we're hitting pause on that and say we're hitting pause on that and we're going to go all in on digital we're going to go all in on digital we're going to go all in on digital and we said well you know how did that and we said well you know how did that and we said well you know how did that go he said the board wanted to fire me go he said the board wanted to fire me go he said the board wanted to fire me because it it interrupted their minute because it it interrupted their minute because it it interrupted their minute their model right which was we have their model right which was we have their model right which was we have certain amount of foot traffic it's certain amount of foot traffic it's certain amount of foot traffic it's going to cannibalize that we can't bring going to cannibalize that we can't bring going to cannibalize that we can't bring people online but he made a prediction people online but he made a prediction people online but he made a prediction that if we go all in on digital and when that if we go all in on digital and when that if we go all in on digital and when he says all in it's not just the funding he says all in it's not just the funding he says all in it's not just the funding and the resources it's giving your top and the resources it's giving your top and the resources it's giving your top talent so the best Minds in the

talent so the best Minds in the talent so the best Minds in the organization like a Lauren to say we're organization like a Lauren to say we're organization like a Lauren to say we're going to put behind that believing that going to put behind that believing that going to put behind that believing that actually online will drive on-site actually online will drive on-site actually online will drive on-site traffic and the two do not compete but traffic and the two do not compete but traffic and the two do not compete but actually complement each other actually complement each other actually complement each other and that gamble uh at Home Depot over and that gamble uh at Home Depot over and that gamble uh at Home Depot over the next three years increased their the next three years increased their the next three years increased their foot traffic in store 700 percent foot traffic in store 700 percent foot traffic in store 700 percent so not only did not cannibalize it but so not only did not cannibalize it but so not only did not cannibalize it but they onboarded thousands of new they onboarded thousands of new they onboarded thousands of new customers because recognizing what customers because recognizing what customers because recognizing what people's need states are online people's need states are online people's need states are online um could be a lot more specifics and he um could be a lot more specifics and he um could be a lot more specifics and he had a challenge he said Tim had a challenge he said Tim had a challenge he said Tim I sell faucets I sell faucets I sell faucets you're sharing Faith something far more you're sharing Faith something far more you're sharing Faith something far more eternally important he goes and yet I eternally important he goes and yet I eternally important he goes and yet I don't understand most Church websites don't understand most Church websites don't understand most Church websites because you're answering questions that because you're answering questions that because you're answering questions that you are asking the church the church you you are asking the church the church you you are asking the church the church you got a typical website and it's going to got a typical website and it's going to got a typical website and it's going to be like hey pancake breakfast this be like hey pancake breakfast this be like hey pancake breakfast this Saturday Saturday Saturday here's our you know series for Easter here's our you know series for Easter here's our you know series for Easter but like to your point Lauren when but like to your point Lauren when but like to your point Lauren when somebody says my marriage is going off somebody says my marriage is going off somebody says my marriage is going off the rails I need help the rails I need help the rails I need help we have tremendous amount of content Pat we have tremendous amount of content Pat we have tremendous amount of content Pat but it's archived and buried where but it's archived and buried where but it's archived and buried where nobody can find it nobody can find it nobody can find it and so to say actually what's the kind and so to say actually what's the kind and so to say actually what's the kind of the need state of the customer or of the need state of the customer or of the need state of the customer or where are they hurting in our in where are they hurting in our in where are they hurting in our in Ministry Ministry Ministry um is changing our thinking about that um is changing our thinking about that um is changing our thinking about that and so I I really see this as this and so I I really see this as this and so I I really see this as this opportunity opportunity opportunity um again to rethink our model of um again to rethink our model of um again to rethink our model of ministry where we want to we actually ministry where we want to we actually ministry where we want to we actually want to be agnostic we don't care if want to be agnostic we don't care if want to be agnostic we don't care if people come online or in person because people come online or in person because people come online or in person because we believe one feeds the other I love

we believe one feeds the other I love we believe one feeds the other I love that Tim just saying that we're trying that Tim just saying that we're trying that Tim just saying that we're trying to to to um get rid of the idea that there's a um get rid of the idea that there's a um get rid of the idea that there's a hierarchy that physical trumps digital hierarchy that physical trumps digital hierarchy that physical trumps digital which was the way it was pre-covered which was the way it was pre-covered which was the way it was pre-covered that's right we're trying to say hey we that's right we're trying to say hey we that's right we're trying to say hey we just want people to come and know the just want people to come and know the just want people to come and know the gospel and know Jesus and whether that gospel and know Jesus and whether that gospel and know Jesus and whether that happens whether the front door is happens whether the front door is happens whether the front door is digital whether it's physical we don't digital whether it's physical we don't digital whether it's physical we don't care yeah yeah care yeah yeah care yeah yeah yeah I love that because I look at you yeah I love that because I look at you yeah I love that because I look at you know whenever I talk to churches I think know whenever I talk to churches I think know whenever I talk to churches I think of three different rings of your of three different rings of your of three different rings of your audience So reading one or liquid people audience So reading one or liquid people audience So reading one or liquid people they they go they're in or they're they they go they're in or they're they they go they're in or they're online right but then there's ring two online right but then there's ring two online right but then there's ring two of people looking for a church and then of people looking for a church and then of people looking for a church and then there's a ring three where it's all there's a ring three where it's all there's a ring three where it's all those felt need issues which there's those felt need issues which there's those felt need issues which there's tons of them and Pastor you preach on tons of them and Pastor you preach on tons of them and Pastor you preach on that stuff all the time and and that stuff all the time and and that stuff all the time and and generating the contents half the battle generating the contents half the battle generating the contents half the battle which you're doing and then Lauren's job which you're doing and then Lauren's job which you're doing and then Lauren's job is to take that and and get it out there is to take that and and get it out there is to take that and and get it out there Lauren I you know I'm sure if you're Lauren I you know I'm sure if you're Lauren I you know I'm sure if you're like me which I think we we're a lot of like me which I think we we're a lot of like me which I think we we're a lot of lie because I think we're you know I'm a lie because I think we're you know I'm a lie because I think we're you know I'm a former communication director I get to former communication director I get to former communication director I get to do that now for churches all the time do that now for churches all the time do that now for churches all the time I'm always trying things and failing I'm always trying things and failing I'm always trying things and failing which is good because I don't see it as which is good because I don't see it as which is good because I don't see it as a failure I see it as the next step a failure I see it as the next step a failure I see it as the next step closer to something that's going to closer to something that's going to closer to something that's going to actually work actually work actually work so give it talk to us a little bit about so give it talk to us a little bit about so give it talk to us a little bit about some of your some of your wins and some some of your some of your wins and some some of your some of your wins and some of your losses that you've learned that of your losses that you've learned that of your losses that you've learned that you turn those losses into you know into you turn those losses into you know into you turn those losses into you know into future wins first I I just I love that future wins first I I just I love that future wins first I I just I love that mindset so one of our core values our mindset so one of our core values our mindset so one of our core values our staff values that liquid is Excellence staff values that liquid is Excellence staff values that liquid is Excellence We Believe Excellence honors God and you We Believe Excellence honors God and you We Believe Excellence honors God and you know but sometimes pre-covered I think know but sometimes pre-covered I think know but sometimes pre-covered I think Tim we would lean towards Perfection

Tim we would lean towards Perfection Tim we would lean towards Perfection right we just wanted things to be as right we just wanted things to be as right we just wanted things to be as good as possible and then covet kind of good as possible and then covet kind of good as possible and then covet kind of gave us this one gift they'll say one gave us this one gift they'll say one gave us this one gift they'll say one gift out of it is there was some freedom gift out of it is there was some freedom gift out of it is there was some freedom to experiment try new things and it was to experiment try new things and it was to experiment try new things and it was okay to fail forward it's like you learn okay to fail forward it's like you learn okay to fail forward it's like you learn from every failure and so I really had from every failure and so I really had from every failure and so I really had just adopted that as a standing attitude just adopted that as a standing attitude just adopted that as a standing attitude so we just had so we just had so we just had um a bit of a flop recently we have um a bit of a flop recently we have um a bit of a flop recently we have something where we recruit our members something where we recruit our members something where we recruit our members of our Dream Team that's what we call of our Dream Team that's what we call of our Dream Team that's what we call our volunteers we call them our Dream our volunteers we call them our Dream our volunteers we call them our Dream Team and we have this incredible Expo Team and we have this incredible Expo Team and we have this incredible Expo that has traditionally been a physical that has traditionally been a physical that has traditionally been a physical event so Tim Cass vision his message and event so Tim Cass vision his message and event so Tim Cass vision his message and he cuts the message a little bit short he cuts the message a little bit short he cuts the message a little bit short and then he releases the congregation and then he releases the congregation and then he releases the congregation out into the atrium and they go into out into the atrium and they go into out into the atrium and they go into this experiential event where they get this experiential event where they get this experiential event where they get to experience all of the teens interact to experience all of the teens interact to experience all of the teens interact with team members have this Church's fun with team members have this Church's fun with team members have this Church's fun moment and then in that moment make a moment and then in that moment make a moment and then in that moment make a decision like yeah hey I'm going to sign decision like yeah hey I'm going to sign decision like yeah hey I'm going to sign up to Shadow and take a next step and up to Shadow and take a next step and up to Shadow and take a next step and see what that's like right and we in one see what that's like right and we in one see what that's like right and we in one um day we can convert hundreds of people um day we can convert hundreds of people um day we can convert hundreds of people into a dream team so we're like oh we into a dream team so we're like oh we into a dream team so we're like oh we have to do something like that and the have to do something like that and the have to do something like that and the digital space and so we tried to tell digital space and so we tried to tell digital space and so we tried to tell people after the service to stick along people after the service to stick along people after the service to stick along with us and break out into like Zoom with us and break out into like Zoom with us and break out into like Zoom groups it just didn't a handful of groups it just didn't a handful of groups it just didn't a handful of people came the interactions were people came the interactions were people came the interactions were awkward and weird awkward and weird awkward and weird um now listen I think maybe we got eight um now listen I think maybe we got eight um now listen I think maybe we got eight signups it was like 500 in person and signups it was like 500 in person and signups it was like 500 in person and digitally and everybody's like what a digitally and everybody's like what a digitally and everybody's like what a flop and and be with the team executed flop and and be with the team executed flop and and be with the team executed with Excellency it wasn't because of a

with Excellency it wasn't because of a with Excellency it wasn't because of a lack of preparation they executed with lack of preparation they executed with lack of preparation they executed with Excellence it just didn't work in that Excellence it just didn't work in that Excellence it just didn't work in that space and I think hey okay we learned we space and I think hey okay we learned we space and I think hey okay we learned we learned it's a flop and now we know we learned it's a flop and now we know we learned it's a flop and now we know we have to recreate it and do something have to recreate it and do something have to recreate it and do something different the next time around and different the next time around and different the next time around and rethink things so I would just give rethink things so I would just give rethink things so I would just give people people people you have permission you have my you have permission you have my you have permission you have my permission go out there try things it's permission go out there try things it's permission go out there try things it's okay if you fail okay if you fail okay if you fail hi Bart Blair here I'm the producer of hi Bart Blair here I'm the producer of hi Bart Blair here I'm the producer of missional marketing's church growth missional marketing's church growth missional marketing's church growth interviews podcast on behalf of our interviews podcast on behalf of our interviews podcast on behalf of our entire team we really appreciate you entire team we really appreciate you entire team we really appreciate you tuning in let me ask you a question if tuning in let me ask you a question if tuning in let me ask you a question if you're a church leader or a church you're a church leader or a church you're a church leader or a church Communications professional do you know Communications professional do you know Communications professional do you know how Google sees your Church website in how Google sees your Church website in how Google sees your Church website in other words if people in your community other words if people in your community other words if people in your community were to Google churches near me or best were to Google churches near me or best were to Google churches near me or best Church in my city or good church nearby Church in my city or good church nearby Church in my city or good church nearby do you know where your Church website do you know where your Church website do you know where your Church website would show up in those search results would show up in those search results would show up in those search results at the top maybe or somewhere in the at the top maybe or somewhere in the at the top maybe or somewhere in the middle or somewhere on page four you middle or somewhere on page four you middle or somewhere on page four you know there's a common misunderstanding know there's a common misunderstanding know there's a common misunderstanding that if we simply build a great website that if we simply build a great website that if we simply build a great website and we launch it that Google will and we launch it that Google will and we launch it that Google will somehow work its magic and people will somehow work its magic and people will somehow work its magic and people will find Us online but there's a bit more find Us online but there's a bit more find Us online but there's a bit more Art and Science to making sure that your Art and Science to making sure that your Art and Science to making sure that your Church website shows up in the top of Church website shows up in the top of Church website shows up in the top of those search results and that science is those search results and that science is those search results and that science is called local SEO or local search engine called local SEO or local search engine called local SEO or local search engine optimization in additional marketing optimization in additional marketing optimization in additional marketing local SEO is one of the core services local SEO is one of the core services local SEO is one of the core services that we provide for churches all across that we provide for churches all across that we provide for churches all across the United States and Canada we'd love the United States and Canada we'd love the United States and Canada we'd love to help you if you'd like to learn more to help you if you'd like to learn more to help you if you'd like to learn more click to our website at click to our website at click to our website at missionalmarketing.com and follow the missionalmarketing.com and follow the missionalmarketing.com and follow the link at the top of the page that says

link at the top of the page that says link at the top of the page that says Church SEO you can request a free local Church SEO you can request a free local Church SEO you can request a free local SEO report to see how your church is SEO report to see how your church is SEO report to see how your church is showing up in Google these days and you showing up in Google these days and you showing up in Google these days and you can schedule an appointment to talk with can schedule an appointment to talk with can schedule an appointment to talk with Jason or with me or with one of our Jason or with me or with one of our Jason or with me or with one of our other digital strategists to help you other digital strategists to help you other digital strategists to help you decide whether or not a local SEO boost decide whether or not a local SEO boost decide whether or not a local SEO boost is right for your church hey again we is right for your church hey again we is right for your church hey again we appreciate you tuning in to our podcast appreciate you tuning in to our podcast appreciate you tuning in to our podcast and we look forward to the opportunity and we look forward to the opportunity and we look forward to the opportunity to serving you in your church and to serving you in your church and to serving you in your church and reaching more people for Jesus now reaching more people for Jesus now reaching more people for Jesus now now to the show oh I love that mentality now to the show oh I love that mentality now to the show oh I love that mentality too because I think I think sometimes too because I think I think sometimes too because I think I think sometimes we're so afraid yeah a failure and um we're so afraid yeah a failure and um we're so afraid yeah a failure and um that really just it holds back any type that really just it holds back any type that really just it holds back any type of growth at all right and and I think of growth at all right and and I think of growth at all right and and I think sometimes well Pastor Tim we're going to sometimes well Pastor Tim we're going to sometimes well Pastor Tim we're going to be more vulnerable we go well the job be more vulnerable we go well the job be more vulnerable we go well the job security is I've got to have a security is I've got to have a security is I've got to have a successful event successful event successful event otherwise you know I may not be here and otherwise you know I may not be here and otherwise you know I may not be here and I think that to have that freedom right I think that to have that freedom right I think that to have that freedom right to say no no no no no no it's okay to to say no no no no no no it's okay to to say no no no no no no it's okay to fail because we're going to fail forward fail because we're going to fail forward fail because we're going to fail forward oh yeah yeah and we're on the bleeding oh yeah yeah and we're on the bleeding oh yeah yeah and we're on the bleeding edge right I mean right now it's like edge right I mean right now it's like edge right I mean right now it's like you know Amazon back in 2001. I think you know Amazon back in 2001. I think you know Amazon back in 2001. I think there's something here but we can't even there's something here but we can't even there's something here but we can't even vaguely imagine what that became in by vaguely imagine what that became in by vaguely imagine what that became in by 2020. I think the same thing even again 2020. I think the same thing even again 2020. I think the same thing even again the way that we are even talking now the way that we are even talking now the way that we are even talking now right we even make a distinction between right we even make a distinction between right we even make a distinction between Church online and church on site you Church online and church on site you Church online and church on site you know digital physical my kids do not know digital physical my kids do not know digital physical my kids do not make this distinction like they think make this distinction like they think make this distinction like they think that's the funniest thing that I would that's the funniest thing that I would that's the funniest thing that I would refer to it online as if they have refer to it online as if they have refer to it online as if they have friends who are online and some are in friends who are online and some are in friends who are online and some are in person they're like they're just my person they're like they're just my person they're like they're just my friends friends friends um and that's because we're our age um and that's because we're our age um and that's because we're our age right generationally we're immigrants

right generationally we're immigrants right generationally we're immigrants but they're natives they have grown up but they're natives they have grown up but they're natives they have grown up with a eight inch glowing rectangle in with a eight inch glowing rectangle in with a eight inch glowing rectangle in front of their face for the last 18 front of their face for the last 18 front of their face for the last 18 years and so when I think like okay when years and so when I think like okay when years and so when I think like okay when they come of age when we hand the reins they come of age when we hand the reins they come of age when we hand the reins over and in 10 years Laura I think of over and in 10 years Laura I think of over and in 10 years Laura I think of your children right you know under the your children right you know under the your children right you know under the age of five it's like oh my goodness age of five it's like oh my goodness age of five it's like oh my goodness think of 20 years from now think of 20 years from now think of 20 years from now um there will not these tensions that um there will not these tensions that um there will not these tensions that we're wrestling through and stumbling we're wrestling through and stumbling we're wrestling through and stumbling through the Merc and the the mire so through the Merc and the the mire so through the Merc and the the mire so many of them will be resolved I do think many of them will be resolved I do think many of them will be resolved I do think largely by the marketplace largely by the marketplace largely by the marketplace um the church I don't know if you have um the church I don't know if you have um the church I don't know if you have found that Jason but it just seems the found that Jason but it just seems the found that Jason but it just seems the church is often 20 30 years behind the church is often 20 30 years behind the church is often 20 30 years behind the marketplace which is light years in marketplace which is light years in marketplace which is light years in digital you might as well just be at digital you might as well just be at digital you might as well just be at least one age yeah that's it and that's least one age yeah that's it and that's least one age yeah that's it and that's why Frank Blake really resonated with me why Frank Blake really resonated with me why Frank Blake really resonated with me because I thought wow you know they're because I thought wow you know they're because I thought wow you know they're figuring this out and not all of that figuring this out and not all of that figuring this out and not all of that transfers obviously church is not in you transfers obviously church is not in you transfers obviously church is not in you know a business or an organization we're know a business or an organization we're know a business or an organization we're an organism it's more organic but people an organism it's more organic but people an organism it's more organic but people now when you remove friction and give now when you remove friction and give now when you remove friction and give them the opportunity to move fluidly them the opportunity to move fluidly them the opportunity to move fluidly back between two they never go back so back between two they never go back so back between two they never go back so when I you know hear guys kind of you when I you know hear guys kind of you when I you know hear guys kind of you know just kind of be moaning and saying know just kind of be moaning and saying know just kind of be moaning and saying oh man you know people won't volunteer oh man you know people won't volunteer oh man you know people won't volunteer as much or they're not as it's like as much or they're not as it's like as much or they're not as it's like standing against a tsunami with a standing against a tsunami with a standing against a tsunami with a toothpick of you know back you know you toothpick of you know back you know you toothpick of you know back you know you go back to this digital tsunami of go back to this digital tsunami of go back to this digital tsunami of change that's coming it's like the horse change that's coming it's like the horse change that's coming it's like the horse is out of the barn and it Surfs Up so is out of the barn and it Surfs Up so is out of the barn and it Surfs Up so let's get our surfboards and surf what let's get our surfboards and surf what let's get our surfboards and surf what God's doing embrace it or you're gonna God's doing embrace it or you're gonna God's doing embrace it or you're gonna eventually die eventually die eventually die you know your church is going to close you know your church is going to close you know your church is going to close down we've had so many conversation

down we've had so many conversation down we've had so many conversation churches going they're trying to figure churches going they're trying to figure churches going they're trying to figure out how to grow younger but they won't out how to grow younger but they won't out how to grow younger but they won't do what you're doing they won't take do what you're doing they won't take do what you're doing they won't take those risks and put the put the those risks and put the put the those risks and put the put the resources the money behind it so resources the money behind it so resources the money behind it so fascinating it's really good advice I fascinating it's really good advice I fascinating it's really good advice I think for anybody listening to this is think for anybody listening to this is think for anybody listening to this is you've gotta your leadership has to make you've gotta your leadership has to make you've gotta your leadership has to make that call right they've got to put the that call right they've got to put the that call right they've got to put the put everything behind it I do think put everything behind it I do think put everything behind it I do think that's one of the biggest challenges that's one of the biggest challenges that's one of the biggest challenges people face is some members of an people face is some members of an people face is some members of an organization they might be on board with organization they might be on board with organization they might be on board with this but without the senior leadership this but without the senior leadership this but without the senior leadership giving the digital Ministry it's giving the digital Ministry it's giving the digital Ministry it's blessing they're really they have their blessing they're really they have their blessing they're really they have their hands tied right you need organizational hands tied right you need organizational hands tied right you need organizational alignment you need resourcing you need alignment you need resourcing you need alignment you need resourcing you need Staffing like you know and I say to Staffing like you know and I say to Staffing like you know and I say to everybody hey it's okay to fail well I I everybody hey it's okay to fail well I I everybody hey it's okay to fail well I I wouldn't be saying that if Tim was wouldn't be saying that if Tim was wouldn't be saying that if Tim was saying no it's not right he's my boss so saying no it's not right he's my boss so saying no it's not right he's my boss so you need to have the senior leadership you need to have the senior leadership you need to have the senior leadership on board and then they actually help to on board and then they actually help to on board and then they actually help to cast that vision for the entire cast that vision for the entire cast that vision for the entire organization so we can move forward organization so we can move forward organization so we can move forward together as opposed to having this together as opposed to having this together as opposed to having this friction even internally oh it frees you friction even internally oh it frees you friction even internally oh it frees you up for sure okay let's turn the corner up for sure okay let's turn the corner up for sure okay let's turn the corner let's talk about this chain Church let's talk about this chain Church let's talk about this chain Church changer podcast changer podcast changer podcast tell me tell me a little bit about that tell me tell me a little bit about that tell me tell me a little bit about that yeah so so you know um we have a yeah so so you know um we have a yeah so so you know um we have a Ministry that really is more oriented to Ministry that really is more oriented to Ministry that really is more oriented to just serving the local church just serving the local church just serving the local church um we've just found at liquid we've had um we've just found at liquid we've had um we've just found at liquid we've had again we're in the Northeast and uh you again we're in the Northeast and uh you again we're in the Northeast and uh you know you have a name like liquid church know you have a name like liquid church know you have a name like liquid church it's kind of an odd name people think it's kind of an odd name people think it's kind of an odd name people think you're a cult or a drinking fraternity you're a cult or a drinking fraternity you're a cult or a drinking fraternity but we named it liquid for a simple but we named it liquid for a simple but we named it liquid for a simple reason Jesus calls himself The Living

reason Jesus calls himself The Living reason Jesus calls himself The Living Water so we just believe hey church Water so we just believe hey church Water so we just believe hey church should be refreshing we're in a very should be refreshing we're in a very should be refreshing we're in a very spiritually dry place but there's a lot spiritually dry place but there's a lot spiritually dry place but there's a lot of thirsty people and so as we've of thirsty people and so as we've of thirsty people and so as we've reached a lot about how over half of our reached a lot about how over half of our reached a lot about how over half of our congregation actually we've baptized congregation actually we've baptized congregation actually we've baptized about 2 700 people uh in the life of our about 2 700 people uh in the life of our about 2 700 people uh in the life of our church and so we have a lot of new church and so we have a lot of new church and so we have a lot of new Believers Believers Believers um and so what other churches come to us um and so what other churches come to us um and so what other churches come to us and say hey we want to reach our and say hey we want to reach our and say hey we want to reach our neighborhoods our community in the neighborhoods our community in the neighborhoods our community in the northeast or in Boston or wherever it is northeast or in Boston or wherever it is northeast or in Boston or wherever it is um we said wow we're getting a lot of um we said wow we're getting a lot of um we said wow we're getting a lot of these requests and we're learning from these requests and we're learning from these requests and we're learning from each other sharing best practices and so each other sharing best practices and so each other sharing best practices and so we said you know can we we're we said you know can we we're we said you know can we we're non-denominational could we just kind of non-denominational could we just kind of non-denominational could we just kind of start a little bit of an informal start a little bit of an informal start a little bit of an informal Network and so we started out with a Network and so we started out with a Network and so we started out with a coaching network uh where I meet with coaching network uh where I meet with coaching network uh where I meet with lead pastors once a month over nine lead pastors once a month over nine lead pastors once a month over nine months kind of drilling down on some of months kind of drilling down on some of months kind of drilling down on some of these systems the evangelism system and these systems the evangelism system and these systems the evangelism system and stimulation all these these things and stimulation all these these things and stimulation all these these things and um and what that kind of developed as we um and what that kind of developed as we um and what that kind of developed as we said boy there's a lot of content and said boy there's a lot of content and said boy there's a lot of content and there's a lot of demand for it and so there's a lot of demand for it and so there's a lot of demand for it and so then we said Lauren what if we did a then we said Lauren what if we did a then we said Lauren what if we did a podcast and use your incredible skills podcast and use your incredible skills podcast and use your incredible skills as a former journalist and and host and as a former journalist and and host and as a former journalist and and host and she's you've got an amazing radio voice she's you've got an amazing radio voice she's you've got an amazing radio voice and so Lauren uh said I'm up for that and so Lauren uh said I'm up for that and so Lauren uh said I'm up for that challenge and so it's been thrilling the challenge and so it's been thrilling the challenge and so it's been thrilling the church changer podcast when did what did church changer podcast when did what did church changer podcast when did what did we launch it Lauren it's it's really we launch it Lauren it's it's really we launch it Lauren it's it's really launched in April of this year so we're launched in April of this year so we're launched in April of this year so we're still in season one okay um I think we still in season one okay um I think we still in season one okay um I think we just we just recorded episode eight just we just recorded episode eight just we just recorded episode eight we're doing one a month right now and we're doing one a month right now and we're doing one a month right now and it's been a ton of fun I absolutely love it's been a ton of fun I absolutely love it's been a ton of fun I absolutely love this this is something definitely we're this this is something definitely we're this this is something definitely we're going to be continuing with yeah we had going to be continuing with yeah we had going to be continuing with yeah we had Dave Adamson on last a few weeks ago and

Dave Adamson on last a few weeks ago and Dave Adamson on last a few weeks ago and again interviewing him kind of about his again interviewing him kind of about his again interviewing him kind of about his book meta Church yep which is really book meta Church yep which is really book meta Church yep which is really kind of like the digital discipleship kind of like the digital discipleship kind of like the digital discipleship Bible as far as I'm concerned it's very Bible as far as I'm concerned it's very Bible as far as I'm concerned it's very comprehensive it's for churches of any comprehensive it's for churches of any comprehensive it's for churches of any size size size um again because it's not about having um again because it's not about having um again because it's not about having and I think that's important caveat and I think that's important caveat and I think that's important caveat right Jason is right Jason is right Jason is um yes you want the full weight ideally um yes you want the full weight ideally um yes you want the full weight ideally of leadership behind it putting of leadership behind it putting of leadership behind it putting resources Financial Staffing but the resources Financial Staffing but the resources Financial Staffing but the reality is hey most churches are a reality is hey most churches are a reality is hey most churches are a single pastor and maybe a part-time single pastor and maybe a part-time single pastor and maybe a part-time worship leader is also you know doing worship leader is also you know doing worship leader is also you know doing the youth ministry right we don't have the youth ministry right we don't have the youth ministry right we don't have those kind of production level right those kind of production level right those kind of production level right highly personal beats highly produced highly personal beats highly produced highly personal beats highly produced any day of the week and so it was so any day of the week and so it was so any day of the week and so it was so fascinating interviewing Dave because he fascinating interviewing Dave because he fascinating interviewing Dave because he was saying he was talking with a pastor was saying he was talking with a pastor was saying he was talking with a pastor who was really bemoaning said you know who was really bemoaning said you know who was really bemoaning said you know we put our live stream on Facebook we we put our live stream on Facebook we we put our live stream on Facebook we got 20 views and he was feeling got 20 views and he was feeling got 20 views and he was feeling discouraged and he said just live stream discouraged and he said just live stream discouraged and he said just live stream when you're taking your dog for walk when you're taking your dog for walk when you're taking your dog for walk live stream on YouTube and pray for live stream on YouTube and pray for live stream on YouTube and pray for people and he said all right so he took people and he said all right so he took people and he said all right so he took his dog for a walk and sure enough says his dog for a walk and sure enough says his dog for a walk and sure enough says you know I'm feeling a little you know I'm feeling a little you know I'm feeling a little discouraged honestly right now during discouraged honestly right now during discouraged honestly right now during covid and you know people not reaching covid and you know people not reaching covid and you know people not reaching and if I'm feeling a little bit and if I'm feeling a little bit and if I'm feeling a little bit discouraged you probably are too how can discouraged you probably are too how can discouraged you probably are too how can I pray for you and basically walk this I pray for you and basically walk this I pray for you and basically walk this dog for 45 minutes and people log on and dog for 45 minutes and people log on and dog for 45 minutes and people log on and it was like oh hey Lauren how we pray it was like oh hey Lauren how we pray it was like oh hey Lauren how we pray for you oh your kids let me pray right for you oh your kids let me pray right for you oh your kids let me pray right now for Lauren Jason how can we and he now for Lauren Jason how can we and he now for Lauren Jason how can we and he just kind of did that live wakes up the just kind of did that live wakes up the just kind of did that live wakes up the next day his YouTube live stream had next day his YouTube live stream had next day his YouTube live stream had been viewed 17 been viewed 17 been viewed 17 000 times 000 times 000 times and the lesson out of that that we and the lesson out of that that we and the lesson out of that that we learned again through this church learned again through this church learned again through this church changer interview changer interview changer interview is that not only does highly personal

is that not only does highly personal is that not only does highly personal always be highly produced when you think always be highly produced when you think always be highly produced when you think of broadcast the beauty of the internet of broadcast the beauty of the internet of broadcast the beauty of the internet is actually the ability to narrow cast is actually the ability to narrow cast is actually the ability to narrow cast yeah the hyper local in your ability to yeah the hyper local in your ability to yeah the hyper local in your ability to reach your neighborhood your community reach your neighborhood your community reach your neighborhood your community so you know just to encourage your so you know just to encourage your so you know just to encourage your listeners and and those pastors who are listeners and and those pastors who are listeners and and those pastors who are out there say oh you know I I can't out there say oh you know I I can't out there say oh you know I I can't start with all that start really small start with all that start really small start with all that start really small you know your community best you have you know your community best you have you know your community best you have something that you know Craig Rochelle something that you know Craig Rochelle something that you know Craig Rochelle Andy Stanley you know Tim Lucas anybody Andy Stanley you know Tim Lucas anybody Andy Stanley you know Tim Lucas anybody else God put you there and equipped and else God put you there and equipped and else God put you there and equipped and anointed you to do that and so I I think anointed you to do that and so I I think anointed you to do that and so I I think that's going to be part of the future that's going to be part of the future that's going to be part of the future it's not the broadcast like hey let's it's not the broadcast like hey let's it's not the broadcast like hey let's reach you know all the you know the reach you know all the you know the reach you know all the you know the states we're on the East Coast let's states we're on the East Coast let's states we're on the East Coast let's reach everybody on the west coast I reach everybody on the west coast I reach everybody on the west coast I think it's like hyper localized how can think it's like hyper localized how can think it's like hyper localized how can we use a digital strategy to complement we use a digital strategy to complement we use a digital strategy to complement our in-person strategy and really our in-person strategy and really our in-person strategy and really saturate our cities for Christ yeah I saturate our cities for Christ yeah I saturate our cities for Christ yeah I always do the uh upside down funnel always do the uh upside down funnel always do the uh upside down funnel right if you if you reach just a few right if you if you reach just a few right if you if you reach just a few people and I have a pastor friend of people and I have a pastor friend of people and I have a pastor friend of mine who he and his wife mine who he and his wife mine who he and his wife all not every day almost every day all not every day almost every day all not every day almost every day they'll just they'll take an hour and they'll just they'll take an hour and they'll just they'll take an hour and they'll they'll boost a post on Facebook they'll they'll boost a post on Facebook they'll they'll boost a post on Facebook to say we want to pray for you right now to say we want to pray for you right now to say we want to pray for you right now so he gets a prayer request from so he gets a prayer request from so he gets a prayer request from somebody they actually record he and his somebody they actually record he and his somebody they actually record he and his wife record it yes and send it to them wife record it yes and send it to them wife record it yes and send it to them and it's instant feedback so now they and it's instant feedback so now they and it's instant feedback so now they have a dialogue and now they're they're have a dialogue and now they're they're have a dialogue and now they're they're ministering to somebody and they invite ministering to somebody and they invite ministering to somebody and they invite them to church I mean I'm like them to church I mean I'm like them to church I mean I'm like brilliant amazing right you spent 20 brilliant amazing right you spent 20 brilliant amazing right you spent 20 bucks it's it's high touch high tech bucks it's it's high touch high tech bucks it's it's high touch high tech right it's not one replacing the other

right it's not one replacing the other right it's not one replacing the other one is really fueling the other yeah so one is really fueling the other yeah so one is really fueling the other yeah so our heart with church changer Jason we our heart with church changer Jason we our heart with church changer Jason we just really want to be super practical just really want to be super practical just really want to be super practical so you know there are a lot of podcasts so you know there are a lot of podcasts so you know there are a lot of podcasts out there that um coach on leadership out there that um coach on leadership out there that um coach on leadership some are inspiration focused we really some are inspiration focused we really some are inspiration focused we really want to get super practical so people want to get super practical so people want to get super practical so people could listen to a podcast and then could listen to a podcast and then could listen to a podcast and then actually have learnings they could actually have learnings they could actually have learnings they could Implement that week so we try to pair it Implement that week so we try to pair it Implement that week so we try to pair it with our leader guide I call it show with our leader guide I call it show with our leader guide I call it show notes on steroids just we try to give notes on steroids just we try to give notes on steroids just we try to give away templates and links and samples away templates and links and samples away templates and links and samples just so we really want to equip people I just so we really want to equip people I just so we really want to equip people I think that's our heart okay so so what think that's our heart okay so so what think that's our heart okay so so what what what uh what's the next six months what what uh what's the next six months what what uh what's the next six months look like for the podcast look like for the podcast look like for the podcast sure so yesterday we just recorded how sure so yesterday we just recorded how sure so yesterday we just recorded how to crush a year-end Christmas offering to crush a year-end Christmas offering to crush a year-end Christmas offering and uh you know most in church world and uh you know most in church world and uh you know most in church world most people realize hey 20 of your most people realize hey 20 of your most people realize hey 20 of your budget comes the last four weeks of the budget comes the last four weeks of the budget comes the last four weeks of the year and you know a lot of pastors hey year and you know a lot of pastors hey year and you know a lot of pastors hey think here's our strategy fingers think here's our strategy fingers think here's our strategy fingers crossed praying we finished wrong and of crossed praying we finished wrong and of crossed praying we finished wrong and of course right prayer is always a first course right prayer is always a first course right prayer is always a first party but we find the Holy Spirit shows party but we find the Holy Spirit shows party but we find the Holy Spirit shows up when there's prayer and planning uh up when there's prayer and planning uh up when there's prayer and planning uh particularly months in advance and so um particularly months in advance and so um particularly months in advance and so um Lauren you you always would push me in Lauren you you always would push me in Lauren you you always would push me in this you would I'd see it I'd see an this you would I'd see it I'd see an this you would I'd see it I'd see an invitation from Lauren in my calendar invitation from Lauren in my calendar invitation from Lauren in my calendar summer Yeah Christmas in July and I summer Yeah Christmas in July and I summer Yeah Christmas in July and I would walk into the meeting and Lauren's would walk into the meeting and Lauren's would walk into the meeting and Lauren's you know got her you know Santa Claus you know got her you know Santa Claus you know got her you know Santa Claus Mariah Carey hat on you know Mariah Carey hat on you know Mariah Carey hat on you know it's Christmas in July and we're it's Christmas in July and we're it's Christmas in July and we're planning for December and I'm like planning for December and I'm like planning for December and I'm like really what do we really but it's really what do we really but it's really what do we really but it's remarkable the level of forethought and

remarkable the level of forethought and remarkable the level of forethought and care you can put in care you can put in care you can put in um earlier on we find the Holy Spirit um earlier on we find the Holy Spirit um earlier on we find the Holy Spirit just puts his hand on that and so what just puts his hand on that and so what just puts his hand on that and so what we did is we kind of did um an interview we did is we kind of did um an interview we did is we kind of did um an interview with some pastors who've been through with some pastors who've been through with some pastors who've been through the church changer coach Network the church changer coach Network the church changer coach Network and saw their year in giving you know and saw their year in giving you know and saw their year in giving you know they were trying to raise 180 000 and they were trying to raise 180 000 and they were trying to raise 180 000 and were able to do 360 were able to do 360 were able to do 360 000 because they stopped seeing it as 000 because they stopped seeing it as 000 because they stopped seeing it as fundraising but more of a faith-raising fundraising but more of a faith-raising fundraising but more of a faith-raising journey for the congregation so journey for the congregation so journey for the congregation so participation exactly so that's that's participation exactly so that's that's participation exactly so that's that's one of the things that we're doing one of the things that we're doing one of the things that we're doing Lauren you can probably speak to the Lauren you can probably speak to the Lauren you can probably speak to the editorial calendar for the next few editorial calendar for the next few editorial calendar for the next few months yeah and then we're we're talking months yeah and then we're we're talking months yeah and then we're we're talking about how to turn a new guest into a about how to turn a new guest into a about how to turn a new guest into a regular attention regular attention regular attention we have an interview scheduled with a we have an interview scheduled with a we have an interview scheduled with a wonderful gentleman art Pereira we're wonderful gentleman art Pereira we're wonderful gentleman art Pereira we're going to talk about discipling the lgbtq going to talk about discipling the lgbtq going to talk about discipling the lgbtq plus community and loving them well in plus community and loving them well in plus community and loving them well in the church so we've got a lot of new the church so we've got a lot of new the church so we've got a lot of new things coming up and trying to you know things coming up and trying to you know things coming up and trying to you know make sure that every month touches on make sure that every month touches on make sure that every month touches on something different but that really something different but that really something different but that really applies to everybody in Ministry you applies to everybody in Ministry you applies to everybody in Ministry you don't have to be a lead Pastor for the don't have to be a lead Pastor for the don't have to be a lead Pastor for the content to be applicable to you yeah oh content to be applicable to you yeah oh content to be applicable to you yeah oh I love that what a gift to the church I love that what a gift to the church I love that what a gift to the church community community community you guys have a huge heart well a lot you guys have a huge heart well a lot you guys have a huge heart well a lot like you said Jason a lot of it is just like you said Jason a lot of it is just like you said Jason a lot of it is just sharing your failures let's save you if we could because it let's save you if we could because it really is a lot of it is I find God's uh really is a lot of it is I find God's uh really is a lot of it is I find God's uh God's our plan a is not is rarely God's God's our plan a is not is rarely God's God's our plan a is not is rarely God's plan a and in fact usually we have to plan a and in fact usually we have to plan a and in fact usually we have to fail at plan A B and C before we get to

fail at plan A B and C before we get to fail at plan A B and C before we get to God's plan a so we're always like can we God's plan a so we're always like can we God's plan a so we're always like can we fail as quickly as possible we can get fail as quickly as possible we can get fail as quickly as possible we can get there you got it you got it I'm with you there you got it you got it I'm with you there you got it you got it I'm with you I'm with you well how do people tune I'm with you well how do people tune I'm with you well how do people tune into the podcast into the podcast into the podcast give all the information on that give all the information on that give all the information on that absolutely so if you wanted to go to our absolutely so if you wanted to go to our absolutely so if you wanted to go to our website it's churchchanger.com or website it's churchchanger.com or website it's churchchanger.com or churchchanger.com podcast will get you churchchanger.com podcast will get you churchchanger.com podcast will get you right there all our content is there but right there all our content is there but right there all our content is there but of course we're everywhere that people of course we're everywhere that people of course we're everywhere that people listen to their podcast you can find us listen to their podcast you can find us listen to their podcast you can find us on Apple Spotify Google wherever people on Apple Spotify Google wherever people on Apple Spotify Google wherever people enjoy listening to podcasts they can enjoy listening to podcasts they can enjoy listening to podcasts they can find it there and if somebody wants to find it there and if somebody wants to find it there and if somebody wants to shoot us an email I'm answering all the shoot us an email I'm answering all the shoot us an email I'm answering all the emails uh so info churchchanger.com if emails uh so info churchchanger.com if emails uh so info churchchanger.com if you have a question for me please reach you have a question for me please reach you have a question for me please reach out I love that's what's so exciting you out I love that's what's so exciting you out I love that's what's so exciting you know when you launch a podcast of course know when you launch a podcast of course know when you launch a podcast of course you're like how many people listened um you're like how many people listened um you're like how many people listened um let me check the downloads but the most let me check the downloads but the most let me check the downloads but the most exciting part is when I have those exciting part is when I have those exciting part is when I have those one-on-one conversations with people and one-on-one conversations with people and one-on-one conversations with people and they reach out because something spoke they reach out because something spoke they reach out because something spoke to them or they have a question or they to them or they have a question or they to them or they have a question or they want a little bit more information or want a little bit more information or want a little bit more information or we're kind of relating on something that we're kind of relating on something that we're kind of relating on something that is so much fun yeah okay well before we is so much fun yeah okay well before we is so much fun yeah okay well before we wind this down and end it I'm going to wind this down and end it I'm going to wind this down and end it I'm going to ask you each to give us kind of a ask you each to give us kind of a ask you each to give us kind of a lasting thought or comment I'll start to lasting thought or comment I'll start to lasting thought or comment I'll start to give you a second here to think of one give you a second here to think of one give you a second here to think of one but you know what comes out of Mind but you know what comes out of Mind but you know what comes out of Mind church is that we're all on the same church is that we're all on the same church is that we're all on the same team yeah we have one mission is make team yeah we have one mission is make team yeah we have one mission is make Jesus famous and we want people to know Jesus famous and we want people to know Jesus famous and we want people to know and follow him and so I think utilizing and follow him and so I think utilizing and follow him and so I think utilizing a lot of these techniques that liquid a lot of these techniques that liquid a lot of these techniques that liquid churches is doing and plus other churches is doing and plus other churches is doing and plus other churches are that are doing this to to churches are that are doing this to to churches are that are doing this to to kind of I like the hybrid model and kind of I like the hybrid model and kind of I like the hybrid model and that's really where our our you know

that's really where our our you know that's really where our our you know where it's going uh we're already there where it's going uh we're already there where it's going uh we're already there with with big boxes Like Home Depot and with with big boxes Like Home Depot and with with big boxes Like Home Depot and everything everything we experience it's everything everything we experience it's everything everything we experience it's all about just you know we've shopped all about just you know we've shopped all about just you know we've shopped sometimes we go to the grocery store sometimes we go to the grocery store sometimes we go to the grocery store other times we're on Amazon other times we're on Amazon other times we're on Amazon yeah you know it doesn't mean that the yeah you know it doesn't mean that the yeah you know it doesn't mean that the church has to be in person only or church has to be in person only or church has to be in person only or online only there is a hybrid to the two online only there is a hybrid to the two online only there is a hybrid to the two and the church that can understand that and the church that can understand that and the church that can understand that and pivot to that is going to find and pivot to that is going to find and pivot to that is going to find themselves in a more successful place themselves in a more successful place themselves in a more successful place um but it definitely is the spirit um but it definitely is the spirit um but it definitely is the spirit leading us so Pastor Tim give us your leading us so Pastor Tim give us your leading us so Pastor Tim give us your your kind of your parting shot on your kind of your parting shot on your kind of your parting shot on on uh what What's a good nugget we need on uh what What's a good nugget we need on uh what What's a good nugget we need to take away with yeah I'm right with to take away with yeah I'm right with to take away with yeah I'm right with you I would just Echo that you know I you I would just Echo that you know I you I would just Echo that you know I would encourage and challenge pastors to would encourage and challenge pastors to would encourage and challenge pastors to put away their binary bias right either put away their binary bias right either put away their binary bias right either or uh you know physical or digital or or uh you know physical or digital or or uh you know physical or digital or it's a both hand and when you get the it's a both hand and when you get the it's a both hand and when you get the both and it really moves you out of that both and it really moves you out of that both and it really moves you out of that corrosive mentality that it's a corrosive mentality that it's a corrosive mentality that it's a competition that they actually competition that they actually competition that they actually complement each other and I think that's complement each other and I think that's complement each other and I think that's a metaphor for the larger Kingdom that's a metaphor for the larger Kingdom that's a metaphor for the larger Kingdom that's the heart behind Church changer you know the heart behind Church changer you know the heart behind Church changer you know we sign off every podcast we say hey we sign off every podcast we say hey we sign off every podcast we say hey change is inevitable irrelevance is not change is inevitable irrelevance is not change is inevitable irrelevance is not so let's put aside our egos and our so let's put aside our egos and our so let's put aside our egos and our logos and do something great for God logos and do something great for God logos and do something great for God together I think when we do that um I'm together I think when we do that um I'm together I think when we do that um I'm very bullish on the future of the church very bullish on the future of the church very bullish on the future of the church uh you know it has survived so many uh you know it has survived so many uh you know it has survived so many things and in fact whenever there's been things and in fact whenever there's been things and in fact whenever there's been a technological invention from the a technological invention from the a technological invention from the printing press you know to the the printing press you know to the the printing press you know to the the bleeding edge letter writing of Paul's bleeding edge letter writing of Paul's bleeding edge letter writing of Paul's day day day [Laughter]

[Laughter] [Laughter] um you know the church has flourished so um you know the church has flourished so um you know the church has flourished so yes right now we are in a season that I yes right now we are in a season that I yes right now we are in a season that I think has uh people there's some think has uh people there's some think has uh people there's some confusion there there's a little bit of confusion there there's a little bit of confusion there there's a little bit of um just just feeling you know um just just feeling you know um just just feeling you know disoriented disorientation can be good disoriented disorientation can be good disoriented disorientation can be good uh that's how we're kind of leaning into uh that's how we're kind of leaning into uh that's how we're kind of leaning into it now I'm preaching to myself here by it now I'm preaching to myself here by it now I'm preaching to myself here by the way the way the way I have to preach that to myself every I have to preach that to myself every I have to preach that to myself every day so I'd encourage the pastors preach day so I'd encourage the pastors preach day so I'd encourage the pastors preach it to yourself convert your own heart it to yourself convert your own heart it to yourself convert your own heart before you go out and try to convert before you go out and try to convert before you go out and try to convert your staff or anybody else oh that's your staff or anybody else oh that's your staff or anybody else oh that's awesome awesome awesome um so I Tim my my dovetails on yours um so I Tim my my dovetails on yours um so I Tim my my dovetails on yours that tail end I would say I'm very that tail end I would say I'm very that tail end I would say I'm very optimistic optimistic optimistic I feel very encouraged about the season I feel very encouraged about the season I feel very encouraged about the season that we're in which I think a lot of that we're in which I think a lot of that we're in which I think a lot of people they feel down they feel weary people they feel down they feel weary people they feel down they feel weary they don't like the direction things are they don't like the direction things are they don't like the direction things are headed and if they could just get back headed and if they could just get back headed and if they could just get back to 2019 that would be wonderful right so to 2019 that would be wonderful right so to 2019 that would be wonderful right so we're still lamenting what we've lost we're still lamenting what we've lost we're still lamenting what we've lost and haven't been able to move past that and haven't been able to move past that and haven't been able to move past that and I would just say this season is and I would just say this season is and I would just say this season is filled with so much opportunity and that filled with so much opportunity and that filled with so much opportunity and that is reason to be optimistic the idea that is reason to be optimistic the idea that is reason to be optimistic the idea that we could go out into all the world in a we could go out into all the world in a we could go out into all the world in a second with our message is incredible so second with our message is incredible so second with our message is incredible so don't be fearful of Technology think don't be fearful of Technology think don't be fearful of Technology think about the ways that it could serve you about the ways that it could serve you about the ways that it could serve you and even if you're a small local church and even if you're a small local church and even if you're a small local church you can serve your neighbors and your you can serve your neighbors and your you can serve your neighbors and your community using technology so think community using technology so think community using technology so think about the idea that we can serve people about the idea that we can serve people about the idea that we can serve people seven days a week so I would tell people seven days a week so I would tell people seven days a week so I would tell people at this point try to turn that corner of

at this point try to turn that corner of at this point try to turn that corner of lamenting what we've lost and focus on lamenting what we've lost and focus on lamenting what we've lost and focus on the opportunity that we're afforded the opportunity that we're afforded the opportunity that we're afforded right now and if you kind of get that right now and if you kind of get that right now and if you kind of get that um optimistic Spirit it will really fuel um optimistic Spirit it will really fuel um optimistic Spirit it will really fuel you moving forward oh I love that you moving forward oh I love that you moving forward oh I love that thought and I think it's I think it's thought and I think it's I think it's thought and I think it's I think it's contagious contagious contagious it is yes yeah you get your and you get it is yes yeah you get your and you get it is yes yeah you get your and you get your some of your congregation behind it your some of your congregation behind it your some of your congregation behind it it just there's a there's a movement of it just there's a there's a movement of it just there's a there's a movement of momentum that can't be denied and it's momentum that can't be denied and it's momentum that can't be denied and it's it's the spirit leading us it's the spirit leading us it's the spirit leading us absolutely and and you get to feel that absolutely and and you get to feel that absolutely and and you get to feel that too like when Tim is optimistic he gets too like when Tim is optimistic he gets too like when Tim is optimistic he gets Nest that down and it trickles down to Nest that down and it trickles down to Nest that down and it trickles down to the whole staff too so think about that the whole staff too so think about that the whole staff too so think about that for your organization as well for your organization as well for your organization as well great advice well I I appreciate you great advice well I I appreciate you great advice well I I appreciate you guys thank you so much for carving out a guys thank you so much for carving out a guys thank you so much for carving out a few minutes I know you guys have a lot few minutes I know you guys have a lot few minutes I know you guys have a lot on your plate so this has been very uh on your plate so this has been very uh on your plate so this has been very uh rewarding for me and I know our rewarding for me and I know our rewarding for me and I know our listeners as well so thank you we're so listeners as well so thank you we're so listeners as well so thank you we're so glad Jason has been a joy to visit with glad Jason has been a joy to visit with glad Jason has been a joy to visit with you and we think the world of the you and we think the world of the you and we think the world of the missional marketing family and thank you missional marketing family and thank you missional marketing family and thank you for being a thought leader as well for for being a thought leader as well for for being a thought leader as well for the global Church yeah the global Church yeah the global Church yeah much fun thank you for having