Telling Your Church's Visual Story | Ben Stapley

when you start empowering and employing when you start empowering and employing the Arts in your church you tap into a the Arts in your church you tap into a the Arts in your church you tap into a volunteer base that is by and large not volunteer base that is by and large not volunteer base that is by and large not tapped into most churches and it tapped into most churches and it tapped into most churches and it releases their gift mix and a changes releases their gift mix and a changes releases their gift mix and a changes culture and it reaches people for Jesus culture and it reaches people for Jesus culture and it reaches people for Jesus so that's my quick sales pitch on why so that's my quick sales pitch on why so that's my quick sales pitch on why people should be using photography people should be using photography people should be using photography welcome to episode number 10060 of the welcome to episode number 10060 of the welcome to episode number 10060 of the missional marketing podcast my name is missional marketing podcast my name is missional marketing podcast my name is Bart Blair and it is my privilege to Bart Blair and it is my privilege to Bart Blair and it is my privilege to welcome you to this week's episode welcome you to this week's episode welcome you to this week's episode thanks for tuning in we have been thanks for tuning in we have been thanks for tuning in we have been producing this podcast since 2020 with producing this podcast since 2020 with producing this podcast since 2020 with the goal of helping churches grow by the goal of helping churches grow by the goal of helping churches grow by leveraging digital marketing and leveraging digital marketing and leveraging digital marketing and effective Communications and if you've effective Communications and if you've effective Communications and if you've been one of those people that's been been one of those people that's been been one of those people that's been listening to this podcast or watching on listening to this podcast or watching on listening to this podcast or watching on our YouTube channel for the last four our YouTube channel for the last four our YouTube channel for the last four plus years thanks for sticking with us plus years thanks for sticking with us plus years thanks for sticking with us we appreciate your loyalty if the show we appreciate your loyalty if the show we appreciate your loyalty if the show is new to you maybe this is your first is new to you maybe this is your first is new to you maybe this is your first time listening or the first time you've time listening or the first time you've time listening or the first time you've listened in a while make sure that you listened in a while make sure that you listened in a while make sure that you subscribe wherever you listen to your subscribe wherever you listen to your subscribe wherever you listen to your favorite podcast so that you don't miss favorite podcast so that you don't miss favorite podcast so that you don't miss any future episodes if you've listened any future episodes if you've listened any future episodes if you've listened to last few episodes one of the things to last few episodes one of the things to last few episodes one of the things that I hope you've taken note of is that that I hope you've taken note of is that that I hope you've taken note of is that we've been promoting a live event that we've been promoting a live event that we've been promoting a live event that we are hosting in September uh our we are hosting in September uh our we are hosting in September uh our sister company the church Communications sister company the church Communications sister company the church Communications Group is technically hosting an event Group is technically hosting an event Group is technically hosting an event called The Church Communications called The Church Communications called The Church Communications conference and all of us on the conference and all of us on the conference and all of us on the missional marketing team well we'll be missional marketing team well we'll be missional marketing team well we'll be there as well I'll be there Jason there as well I'll be there Jason there as well I'll be there Jason Hamrock will be there and uh we hope Hamrock will be there and uh we hope Hamrock will be there and uh we hope that you'll be there as well it'll be that you'll be there as well it'll be that you'll be there as well it'll be September 19th and 20th at Compass September 19th and 20th at Compass September 19th and 20th at Compass church in Dallas Texas technically church in Dallas Texas technically church in Dallas Texas technically cville Texas which is a suburb of Dallas cville Texas which is a suburb of Dallas cville Texas which is a suburb of Dallas and if you click over to the website and if you click over to the website and if you click over to the website church communications.com you can get church communications.com you can get church communications.com you can get all the details you can register there all the details you can register there all the details you can register there and if you're ready to register now

and if you're ready to register now and if you're ready to register now please use the discount code friends please use the discount code friends please use the discount code friends that'll get you a bit of a discount on that'll get you a bit of a discount on that'll get you a bit of a discount on your registration and you can use that your registration and you can use that your registration and you can use that for as many people on your team as you for as many people on your team as you for as many people on your team as you would like to bring well today's would like to bring well today's would like to bring well today's interview is one that I'm really excited interview is one that I'm really excited interview is one that I'm really excited to introduce to you uh the guest that we to introduce to you uh the guest that we to introduce to you uh the guest that we have on this week's show is not a have on this week's show is not a have on this week's show is not a stranger to the show but it has been a stranger to the show but it has been a stranger to the show but it has been a little while since he's been on the show little while since he's been on the show little while since he's been on the show Ben Stapley was on episode 20 or Ben Stapley was on episode 20 or Ben Stapley was on episode 20 or something like that of season two so something like that of season two so something like that of season two so we're going way back a few years ago Ben we're going way back a few years ago Ben we're going way back a few years ago Ben is an executive pastor at a church in is an executive pastor at a church in is an executive pastor at a church in New Jersey uh he's been a creative New Jersey uh he's been a creative New Jersey uh he's been a creative Pastor uh communications director he's Pastor uh communications director he's Pastor uh communications director he's served in a variety of churches served in a variety of churches served in a variety of churches including some very large churches such including some very large churches such including some very large churches such as uh Christ Fellowship in Miami and as uh Christ Fellowship in Miami and as uh Christ Fellowship in Miami and Liquid Church in New Jersey uh he has Liquid Church in New Jersey uh he has Liquid Church in New Jersey uh he has his MD he has his undergraduate degree his MD he has his undergraduate degree his MD he has his undergraduate degree from Moody Bible Institute I believe in from Moody Bible Institute I believe in from Moody Bible Institute I believe in Communications he is just a wealth of Communications he is just a wealth of Communications he is just a wealth of creativity and information and you're creativity and information and you're creativity and information and you're going to get so much out of this episode going to get so much out of this episode going to get so much out of this episode this week we're having a conversation this week we're having a conversation this week we're having a conversation about photography and building a about photography and building a about photography and building a photography team in your church and photography team in your church and photography team in your church and we'll get to that interview here in just we'll get to that interview here in just we'll get to that interview here in just one moment at the time that we're one moment at the time that we're one moment at the time that we're recording this and releasing this you recording this and releasing this you recording this and releasing this you are probably beginning to have are probably beginning to have are probably beginning to have conversations on your team about conversations on your team about conversations on your team about Christmas it's not too early to be Christmas it's not too early to be Christmas it's not too early to be talking about Christmas now it's a talking about Christmas now it's a talking about Christmas now it's a little bit too early to be talking about little bit too early to be talking about little bit too early to be talking about Easter but I'm going to plug the last Easter but I'm going to plug the last Easter but I'm going to plug the last episode that we recorded with Ben a few episode that we recorded with Ben a few episode that we recorded with Ben a few years ago two years ago three years ago years ago two years ago three years ago years ago two years ago three years ago whenever we did that because we were whenever we did that because we were whenever we did that because we were talking about Easter planning and if talking about Easter planning and if talking about Easter planning and if you'll check the show notes of this you'll check the show notes of this you'll check the show notes of this episode you'll link will link to that episode you'll link will link to that episode you'll link will link to that particular episode everything that Ben particular episode everything that Ben particular episode everything that Ben shares about planning for Easter

shares about planning for Easter shares about planning for Easter services also applies to planning for services also applies to planning for services also applies to planning for your Christmas services so as you're your Christmas services so as you're your Christmas services so as you're planning your Christmas season go ahead planning your Christmas season go ahead planning your Christmas season go ahead and jump over there and listen to that and jump over there and listen to that and jump over there and listen to that previous episode well that's all I've previous episode well that's all I've previous episode well that's all I've got as far as an intro is concerned to got as far as an intro is concerned to got as far as an intro is concerned to this particular episode thanks again for this particular episode thanks again for this particular episode thanks again for tuning in here's Jason Hamrock the CEO tuning in here's Jason Hamrock the CEO tuning in here's Jason Hamrock the CEO of missional marketing and our interview of missional marketing and our interview of missional marketing and our interview with Ben with Ben with Ben Stapley well hey Ben uh welcome back to Stapley well hey Ben uh welcome back to Stapley well hey Ben uh welcome back to the show how you doing my friend I'm the show how you doing my friend I'm the show how you doing my friend I'm doing great now that I'm talking with doing great now that I'm talking with doing great now that I'm talking with you guys again I was on once and I was you guys again I was on once and I was you guys again I was on once and I was like did it work was it value add to like did it work was it value add to like did it work was it value add to your guest you've invited me back so yay your guest you've invited me back so yay your guest you've invited me back so yay I'm here again can't wait to to share I'm here again can't wait to to share I'm here again can't wait to to share with your audience and also these with your audience and also these with your audience and also these conversations are always a learning conversations are always a learning conversations are always a learning opportunity I know I'm going to learn opportunity I know I'm going to learn opportunity I know I'm going to learn from you guys as we chat as well so it's from you guys as we chat as well so it's from you guys as we chat as well so it's a win-win for me oh well it's a win-win a win-win for me oh well it's a win-win a win-win for me oh well it's a win-win for us and hopefully it's a win-win for for us and hopefully it's a win-win for for us and hopefully it's a win-win for the users as they listen to this podcast the users as they listen to this podcast the users as they listen to this podcast today so yeah yeah well it's good to today so yeah yeah well it's good to today so yeah yeah well it's good to have you back and I I know you're you're have you back and I I know you're you're have you back and I I know you're you're over there in Jersey you know as you over there in Jersey you know as you over there in Jersey you know as you like to kind of say you just it's it's a like to kind of say you just it's it's a like to kind of say you just it's it's a you kick it to the curb kind of thing you kick it to the curb kind of thing you kick it to the curb kind of thing but you've been in Jersey for what a few but you've been in Jersey for what a few but you've been in Jersey for what a few years now huh yeah so I don't have the years now huh yeah so I don't have the years now huh yeah so I don't have the Jersey accent uh I'm a Canadian but uh Jersey accent uh I'm a Canadian but uh Jersey accent uh I'm a Canadian but uh my wife when we got married she pulled my wife when we got married she pulled my wife when we got married she pulled me down here and I I've had plans to me down here and I I've had plans to me down here and I I've had plans to bring her back up to Canada it's been bring her back up to Canada it's been bring her back up to Canada it's been about 20 years now and I've been about 20 years now and I've been about 20 years now and I've been unsuccessful yet but I I left the unsuccessful yet but I I left the unsuccessful yet but I I left the Northeast I'm kind of wired that way and Northeast I'm kind of wired that way and Northeast I'm kind of wired that way and I love seeing God work in our cold and I love seeing God work in our cold and I love seeing God work in our cold and broken hearts as new jerseyans he can broken hearts as new jerseyans he can broken hearts as new jerseyans he can still do a Prof profound thing even in still do a Prof profound thing even in still do a Prof profound thing even in this state God is on the move I love it

this state God is on the move I love it this state God is on the move I love it well good luck on those plans to to get well good luck on those plans to to get well good luck on those plans to to get her up up north 20 years you're almost her up up north 20 years you're almost her up up north 20 years you're almost there you're like halfway through if there you're like halfway through if there you're like halfway through if you're like Moses just kind of wandering you're like Moses just kind of wandering you're like Moses just kind of wandering [Laughter] [Laughter] [Laughter] around well hey today I'm I'm really around well hey today I'm I'm really around well hey today I'm I'm really pumped about our topic today um and uh pumped about our topic today um and uh pumped about our topic today um and uh it's one that I I have I get to work on it's one that I I have I get to work on it's one that I I have I get to work on and consult and Coach almost almost and consult and Coach almost almost and consult and Coach almost almost every day now um simply because of the every day now um simply because of the every day now um simply because of the role we're playing in with churches but role we're playing in with churches but role we're playing in with churches but today we're going to talk about some today we're going to talk about some today we're going to talk about some volunteer teams and more specifically volunteer teams and more specifically volunteer teams and more specifically with volunteer teams photography you with volunteer teams photography you with volunteer teams photography you know one of those things that it's just know one of those things that it's just know one of those things that it's just such an important component of every such an important component of every such an important component of every church is telling a story because you're church is telling a story because you're church is telling a story because you're you're trying to use that to reach you're trying to use that to reach you're trying to use that to reach people who are not yet a part of your people who are not yet a part of your people who are not yet a part of your church and the church isn't a building church and the church isn't a building church and the church isn't a building it's it's the people and so you capture it's it's the people and so you capture it's it's the people and so you capture that through photog graphy so I'm really that through photog graphy so I'm really that through photog graphy so I'm really excited to to talk about that but you excited to to talk about that but you excited to to talk about that but you know just give us some overview of of know just give us some overview of of know just give us some overview of of your experience with when it comes to your experience with when it comes to your experience with when it comes to you know photograph how how do you you know photograph how how do you you know photograph how how do you recruit people and what's the what's the recruit people and what's the what's the recruit people and what's the what's the purpose behind making sure we collect purpose behind making sure we collect purpose behind making sure we collect good good pictures and what's that story good good pictures and what's that story good good pictures and what's that story we're trying to we're trying to we're trying to tell yeah we can go all over the face on tell yeah we can go all over the face on tell yeah we can go all over the face on this conversation and I expect we this conversation and I expect we this conversation and I expect we probably will which is a good thing but probably will which is a good thing but probably will which is a good thing but I always like to pump the brakes and I always like to pump the brakes and I always like to pump the brakes and start with why why are we even start with why why are we even start with why why are we even interested in graphy is it because interested in graphy is it because interested in graphy is it because Instagram's a big thing and we're Instagram's a big thing and we're Instagram's a big thing and we're supposed to be on that I always start supposed to be on that I always start supposed to be on that I always start with why there's probably three quick with why there's probably three quick with why there's probably three quick why I would say why church should invest why I would say why church should invest why I would say why church should invest in photography in photography teams um

in photography in photography teams um in photography in photography teams um and this is from my perspective it's and this is from my perspective it's and this is from my perspective it's always thinking about the I'm thinking always thinking about the I'm thinking always thinking about the I'm thinking about the outsider first for how do I about the outsider first for how do I about the outsider first for how do I bring those far from Christ closer to bring those far from Christ closer to bring those far from Christ closer to Christ and so the first thing Christ and so the first thing Christ and so the first thing photography does is it shares a story it photography does is it shares a story it photography does is it shares a story it tells what's happening in someone's like tells what's happening in someone's like tells what's happening in someone's like we just had baptisms at our church we just had baptisms at our church we just had baptisms at our church yesterday at summer usually a down yesterday at summer usually a down yesterday at summer usually a down season for us we had 50 people baptis he season for us we had 50 people baptis he season for us we had 50 people baptis he was beautiful and so for me when we take was beautiful and so for me when we take was beautiful and so for me when we take those pictures of people coming out of those pictures of people coming out of those pictures of people coming out of the tub uh water coming down their face the tub uh water coming down their face the tub uh water coming down their face tears coming down their face but joy on tears coming down their face but joy on tears coming down their face but joy on their face yeah they're standing that in their face yeah they're standing that in their face yeah they're standing that in that photo they're saying my life was that photo they're saying my life was that photo they're saying my life was transformed through Jesus when we share transformed through Jesus when we share transformed through Jesus when we share Systematic Theology people can argue Systematic Theology people can argue Systematic Theology people can argue with that uh when we tell you our view with that uh when we tell you our view with that uh when we tell you our view on some moral issue people can that on some moral issue people can that on some moral issue people can that could be okay that could be a could be okay that could be a could be okay that could be a constructive a counterintuitive constructive a counterintuitive constructive a counterintuitive conversation but when I share you my conversation but when I share you my conversation but when I share you my story story story that I was once dead and I'm now alive that I was once dead and I'm now alive that I was once dead and I'm now alive people can't challenge that they see the people can't challenge that they see the people can't challenge that they see the pro in the pudding and sure it shares pro in the pudding and sure it shares pro in the pudding and sure it shares those stories so it's really helpful for those stories so it's really helpful for those stories so it's really helpful for the skeptic the other thing it shows the skeptic the other thing it shows the skeptic the other thing it shows what is expected for a skeptic someone's what is expected for a skeptic someone's what is expected for a skeptic someone's never been to your church again they never been to your church again they never been to your church again they want to see what it's like you say that want to see what it's like you say that want to see what it's like you say that you are a caring place and you are a you are a caring place and you are a you are a caring place and you are a kind Place well are there people are kind Place well are there people are kind Place well are there people are there photos of people in your lobby there photos of people in your lobby there photos of people in your lobby smiling and engaging each other or does smiling and engaging each other or does smiling and engaging each other or does it feel like it's clicks you say you're it feel like it's clicks you say you're it feel like it's clicks you say you're a diverse place I want to see that you a diverse place I want to see that you a diverse place I want to see that you say you are a place that is relevant say you are a place that is relevant say you are a place that is relevant well is it what does your leag pastor well is it what does your leag pastor well is it what does your leag pastor look like do they look like the look like do they look like the look like do they look like the relatable can I relate to this person or relatable can I relate to this person or relatable can I relate to this person or do they look like somebody in an iory do they look like somebody in an iory do they look like somebody in an iory Tower no offense to iory Towers but yeah

Tower no offense to iory Towers but yeah Tower no offense to iory Towers but yeah it shares again for that skeptic it it shares again for that skeptic it it shares again for that skeptic it shares what is going to be expected in shares what is going to be expected in shares what is going to be expected in that environment for people who have no that environment for people who have no that environment for people who have no association with churches they Wonder association with churches they Wonder association with churches they Wonder right are you just going to be asking right are you just going to be asking right are you just going to be asking for money all the time are you guys for money all the time are you guys for money all the time are you guys going to be handling snakes what what is going to be handling snakes what what is going to be handling snakes what what is happening in this service I want to know happening in this service I want to know happening in this service I want to know before I come photos of allow you to before I come photos of allow you to before I come photos of allow you to Showcase what is happening uh and in our Showcase what is happening uh and in our Showcase what is happening uh and in our day and age with all the vehicles to day and age with all the vehicles to day and age with all the vehicles to explore churches uh your your stream explore churches uh your your stream explore churches uh your your stream your social media your website people your social media your website people your social media your website people want to they want to try before they buy want to they want to try before they buy want to they want to try before they buy they want to look at it and see is it they want to look at it and see is it they want to look at it and see is it something that shows value to me before something that shows value to me before something that shows value to me before I go and the last big thing we're going I go and the last big thing we're going I go and the last big thing we're going to get to this conversation but it to get to this conversation but it to get to this conversation but it empowers your volunteers there is a empowers your volunteers there is a empowers your volunteers there is a swath of your congregation that knows swath of your congregation that knows swath of your congregation that knows how to get engaged in church you know I how to get engaged in church you know I how to get engaged in church you know I can sing I can jump on stage I can lead can sing I can jump on stage I can lead can sing I can jump on stage I can lead us discussion I can lead a small group us discussion I can lead a small group us discussion I can lead a small group um or I know how to shake someone's hand um or I know how to shake someone's hand um or I know how to shake someone's hand I can be in the greater team but I'm an I can be in the greater team but I'm an I can be in the greater team but I'm an artist I have a camera I don't feel I artist I have a camera I don't feel I artist I have a camera I don't feel I know where my skills are engaged or used know where my skills are engaged or used know where my skills are engaged or used in this church am I because I have my in this church am I because I have my in this church am I because I have my skill set is different than the typical skill set is different than the typical skill set is different than the typical Church volunteer do I get a chance to Church volunteer do I get a chance to Church volunteer do I get a chance to play or am I can I be in the game or am play or am I can I be in the game or am play or am I can I be in the game or am I on the sidelines when you start I on the sidelines when you start I on the sidelines when you start empowering and employing the Arts in empowering and employing the Arts in empowering and employing the Arts in your church you tap into a volunteer your church you tap into a volunteer your church you tap into a volunteer base that is is by and large not tapped base that is is by and large not tapped base that is is by and large not tapped into most churches and it releases their into most churches and it releases their into most churches and it releases their gift mix and it changes culture and it gift mix and it changes culture and it gift mix and it changes culture and it reaches people for Jesus so that's my reaches people for Jesus so that's my reaches people for Jesus so that's my quick sales pitch on why people should quick sales pitch on why people should quick sales pitch on why people should be using photography yeah well I'm

be using photography yeah well I'm be using photography yeah well I'm excited to unpack those things so tells excited to unpack those things so tells excited to unpack those things so tells a story kind of communicates what's a story kind of communicates what's a story kind of communicates what's expected and then helps recruit expected and then helps recruit expected and then helps recruit volunteers and and what I love about volunteers and and what I love about volunteers and and what I love about what you just said there especially the what you just said there especially the what you just said there especially the first thing photo photos tell a story first thing photo photos tell a story first thing photo photos tell a story because I see myself when I look at your because I see myself when I look at your because I see myself when I look at your website or I look at your social website or I look at your social website or I look at your social channels as that one right I'm the one channels as that one right I'm the one channels as that one right I'm the one that you're and after not the 99 I see that you're and after not the 99 I see that you're and after not the 99 I see myself through that story and what myself through that story and what myself through that story and what you're communicating to me is there's you're communicating to me is there's you're communicating to me is there's Hope on the other side of that and Hope on the other side of that and Hope on the other side of that and that's what I get excited about right that's what I get excited about right that's what I get excited about right because it's Jesus who's going to move because it's Jesus who's going to move because it's Jesus who's going to move us to Redemption and hope and healing us to Redemption and hope and healing us to Redemption and hope and healing and Grace and all that stuff and a photo and Grace and all that stuff and a photo and Grace and all that stuff and a photo can really help communicate that can really help communicate that can really help communicate that extremely well I get goosebumps thinking extremely well I get goosebumps thinking extremely well I get goosebumps thinking about that for for churches I get about that for for churches I get about that for for churches I get excited about that so I've quoted her a excited about that so I've quoted her a excited about that so I've quoted her a hundred times on this podcast episode hundred times on this podcast episode hundred times on this podcast episode since she said it but Amy Cheney said since she said it but Amy Cheney said since she said it but Amy Cheney said people are going to choose your church people are going to choose your church people are going to choose your church because you have the coolest lighting because you have the coolest lighting because you have the coolest lighting system or the best drummer they're going system or the best drummer they're going system or the best drummer they're going to choose your church when they check to choose your church when they check to choose your church when they check out your website and your social media out your website and your social media out your website and your social media channels and they see the eyes of people channels and they see the eyes of people channels and they see the eyes of people whose lives have been changed by Jesus whose lives have been changed by Jesus whose lives have been changed by Jesus and that's that's what they're looking and that's that's what they're looking and that's that's what they're looking for right we're looking for a place for right we're looking for a place for right we're looking for a place where we can experience life change we where we can experience life change we where we can experience life change we might not be able we might not be able might not be able we might not be able might not be able we might not be able to verbalize exactly what we're looking to verbalize exactly what we're looking to verbalize exactly what we're looking for but we know it when we see it and for but we know it when we see it and for but we know it when we see it and when you see it in people whose lives when you see it in people whose lives when you see it in people whose lives have been transformed people who uh have been transformed people who uh have been transformed people who uh through their the the expression on through their the the expression on through their the the expression on their faces and the way that they're uh their faces and the way that they're uh their faces and the way that they're uh relating or engaging with one another in relating or engaging with one another in relating or engaging with one another in great photography uh it can do a lot to great photography uh it can do a lot to great photography uh it can do a lot to bring people who are far from God into bring people who are far from God into bring people who are far from God into the context of your community yeah love

the context of your community yeah love the context of your community yeah love that all right so some practical advice that all right so some practical advice that all right so some practical advice you know when we're talking about you know when we're talking about you know when we're talking about building like a photography team what building like a photography team what building like a photography team what what kind of ideas or advice would you what kind of ideas or advice would you what kind of ideas or advice would you give give give somebody I think all your questions I somebody I think all your questions I somebody I think all your questions I have like three points for each of them have like three points for each of them have like three points for each of them so let me give you three points on that so let me give you three points on that so let me give you three points on that I always say uh prepare people um pour I always say uh prepare people um pour I always say uh prepare people um pour into people and then pasture people so into people and then pasture people so into people and then pasture people so prepare people so sometimes uh you join prepare people so sometimes uh you join prepare people so sometimes uh you join the photography team great here's a the photography team great here's a the photography team great here's a camera go well uh what is there a shot camera go well uh what is there a shot camera go well uh what is there a shot list for this event is there is there a list for this event is there is there a list for this event is there is there a flow of the the event so I know what's flow of the the event so I know what's flow of the the event so I know what's happening for a second and uh third happening for a second and uh third happening for a second and uh third think of this wedding photographers know think of this wedding photographers know think of this wedding photographers know what the flow of the event is right so what the flow of the event is right so what the flow of the event is right so they know that the bride's going to walk they know that the bride's going to walk they know that the bride's going to walk down the aisle I need to be at the front down the aisle I need to be at the front down the aisle I need to be at the front to capture that key moment to capture that key moment to capture that key moment um after the toast there's a wedding um after the toast there's a wedding um after the toast there's a wedding cake cut it it's going to be over there cake cut it it's going to be over there cake cut it it's going to be over there I need to position myself there so any I need to position myself there so any I need to position myself there so any photographer who's good knows what the photographer who's good knows what the photographer who's good knows what the event is and they're prepared for it event is and they're prepared for it event is and they're prepared for it sometimes we as Leaders we love to sometimes we as Leaders we love to sometimes we as Leaders we love to recruit people but we don't love to recruit people but we don't love to recruit people but we don't love to empower them as good as we should give empower them as good as we should give empower them as good as we should give them a basic flow of the event and a them a basic flow of the event and a them a basic flow of the event and a basic shotless so um uh recruit them and basic shotless so um uh recruit them and basic shotless so um uh recruit them and you know Empower them with what you're you know Empower them with what you're you know Empower them with what you're doing pour into them sometimes we use we doing pour into them sometimes we use we doing pour into them sometimes we use we we use I was going to say utilize we we use I was going to say utilize we we use I was going to say utilize we utilize and use artists for what we can utilize and use artists for what we can utilize and use artists for what we can get from them but forget to pour into get from them but forget to pour into get from them but forget to pour into them this these are these are teams them this these are these are teams them this these are these are teams these are volunteers these are people these are volunteers these are people these are volunteers these are people that need to be pastored at the day at that need to be pastored at the day at that need to be pastored at the day at the end of the day how are you pouring the end of the day how are you pouring the end of the day how are you pouring into them how are you pouring how are into them how are you pouring how are into them how are you pouring how are you pastoring them are you just

you pastoring them are you just you pastoring them are you just receiving from them or else they getting receiving from them or else they getting receiving from them or else they getting from you quick ways I love to do it is from you quick ways I love to do it is from you quick ways I love to do it is there is there resources that you can there is there resources that you can there is there resources that you can send their ways um maybe you're sending send their ways um maybe you're sending send their ways um maybe you're sending them to a virtual conference where they them to a virtual conference where they them to a virtual conference where they get better maybe you're going to an art get better maybe you're going to an art get better maybe you're going to an art gallery to look at photos from other gallery to look at photos from other gallery to look at photos from other people maybe going on a photo walk as a people maybe going on a photo walk as a people maybe going on a photo walk as a team we're all taking photos of the same team we're all taking photos of the same team we're all taking photos of the same walk and then we're putting it up on the walk and then we're putting it up on the walk and then we're putting it up on the Big Ed wall and oh I love that photo of Big Ed wall and oh I love that photo of Big Ed wall and oh I love that photo of yours and these are ways in which you re yours and these are ways in which you re yours and these are ways in which you re reward your people not just recruit your reward your people not just recruit your reward your people not just recruit your people so think that way as you're people so think that way as you're people so think that way as you're thinking and you're building your teams thinking and you're building your teams thinking and you're building your teams I want to go right there where that I want to go right there where that I want to go right there where that photo walk I got a church that's going photo walk I got a church that's going photo walk I got a church that's going to do that here pretty soon and and to do that here pretty soon and and to do that here pretty soon and and we're sort of I'm helping them we're we're sort of I'm helping them we're we're sort of I'm helping them we're kind of pulling it together so they're kind of pulling it together so they're kind of pulling it together so they're they're inviting people to an early they're inviting people to an early they're inviting people to an early evening like Thursday I think it is GNA evening like Thursday I think it is GNA evening like Thursday I think it is GNA give them Pizza you know because pizza give them Pizza you know because pizza give them Pizza you know because pizza and soda beat them but they're going to and soda beat them but they're going to and soda beat them but they're going to do that photo walk and I'm really do that photo walk and I'm really do that photo walk and I'm really excited about that and that might be excited about that and that might be excited about that and that might be pretty new for our audience toar what pretty new for our audience toar what pretty new for our audience toar what are you talking about a photo walk so are you talking about a photo walk so are you talking about a photo walk so will you dive in a little bit deeper will you dive in a little bit deeper will you dive in a little bit deeper there yeah keep the cookies on the there yeah keep the cookies on the there yeah keep the cookies on the bottom sh thank you for that Jason so so bottom sh thank you for that Jason so so bottom sh thank you for that Jason so so again this is a chance to a reward and again this is a chance to a reward and again this is a chance to a reward and pour into your team so they're pour into your team so they're pour into your team so they're photographers and they have their own photographers and they have their own photographers and they have their own craft but who is helping them grow their craft but who is helping them grow their craft but who is helping them grow their craft when I've with been with a team of craft when I've with been with a team of craft when I've with been with a team of um photographers one of the beautiful um photographers one of the beautiful um photographers one of the beautiful thing is we all see life limited from thing is we all see life limited from thing is we all see life limited from our perspective right and so I see it our perspective right and so I see it our perspective right and so I see it here I don't have your eyes you don't here I don't have your eyes you don't here I don't have your eyes you don't have mine so as we go down a a walk it have mine so as we go down a a walk it have mine so as we go down a a walk it could be a literal Walk we're going on a could be a literal Walk we're going on a could be a literal Walk we're going on a hike or it could be like we're exploring hike or it could be like we're exploring hike or it could be like we're exploring a space like you know a playround what a space like you know a playround what a space like you know a playround what are things that catch your eye and that

are things that catch your eye and that are things that catch your eye and that you want to capture so you would do that you want to capture so you would do that you want to capture so you would do that I would do that other team members would I would do that other team members would I would do that other team members would do that doesn't have to be a long and do that doesn't have to be a long and do that doesn't have to be a long and extensive thing you know a 30 minute extensive thing you know a 30 minute extensive thing you know a 30 minute visit to some decreet Urban environment visit to some decreet Urban environment visit to some decreet Urban environment that it's just like oh man this like that it's just like oh man this like that it's just like oh man this like this visually stunning it could be a this visually stunning it could be a this visually stunning it could be a 60-minute hike whatever is keep that 60-minute hike whatever is keep that 60-minute hike whatever is keep that short keep that experience short where short keep that experience short where short keep that experience short where everyone tries to capture things that everyone tries to capture things that everyone tries to capture things that stand out to them not things that like stand out to them not things that like stand out to them not things that like everyone says oh what really well but everyone says oh what really well but everyone says oh what really well but just things that they how they see life just things that they how they see life just things that they how they see life and then quickly maybe another 30 and then quickly maybe another 30 and then quickly maybe another 30 minutes um edit you curate the content minutes um edit you curate the content minutes um edit you curate the content edit it you know get down your shots and edit it you know get down your shots and edit it you know get down your shots and these are my five top shots five top these are my five top shots five top these are my five top shots five top things I saw from this experience and things I saw from this experience and things I saw from this experience and let's throw them up in the wall and then let's throw them up in the wall and then let's throw them up in the wall and then I get to see how you see life and you I get to see how you see life and you I get to see how you see life and you get to see how I see life and I never get to see how I see life and I never get to see how I see life and I never and and then from a you know so I get to and and then from a you know so I get to and and then from a you know so I get to understand that person better then also understand that person better then also understand that person better then also learn man all your stuff is like low learn man all your stuff is like low learn man all your stuff is like low angled stuff like you love getting below angled stuff like you love getting below angled stuff like you love getting below the subject or you're man all your shots the subject or you're man all your shots the subject or you're man all your shots are wide you you see Life as a canvas are wide you you see Life as a canvas are wide you you see Life as a canvas you see the whole thing or and you're you see the whole thing or and you're you see the whole thing or and you're really macro everything is a it's an ant really macro everything is a it's an ant really macro everything is a it's an ant it's a penny it's you are really detail it's a penny it's you are really detail it's a penny it's you are really detail oriented so you get to know your team oriented so you get to know your team oriented so you get to know your team they get to know you it's just a it's a they get to know you it's just a it's a they get to know you it's just a it's a beautiful exercise of growth beautiful exercise of growth beautiful exercise of growth understanding and pouring into people so understanding and pouring into people so understanding and pouring into people so that you know a photo walk that's that's that you know a photo walk that's that's that you know a photo walk that's that's what we're talking talking about but it what we're talking talking about but it what we're talking talking about but it doesn't even have to be a walk it could doesn't even have to be a walk it could doesn't even have to be a walk it could just be on a just be on a just be on a location I love that yeah yeah all right location I love that yeah yeah all right location I love that yeah yeah all right so okay so maybe do that that that'd be so okay so maybe do that that that'd be so okay so maybe do that that that'd be a good thing to do and in fact I'd a good thing to do and in fact I'd a good thing to do and in fact I'd probably recommend you do that EV every probably recommend you do that EV every probably recommend you do that EV every now and then not just once and call it now and then not just once and call it now and then not just once and call it good like build it into the schedule

good like build it into the schedule good like build it into the schedule because I think you said getting to know because I think you said getting to know because I think you said getting to know your your people and their strengths and your your people and their strengths and your your people and their strengths and and their eye is so important to all and their eye is so important to all and their eye is so important to all that um I think every that um I think every that um I think every Church uh has probably people that are Church uh has probably people that are Church uh has probably people that are artistic in their in their congregation artistic in their in their congregation artistic in their in their congregation just about so talk to me a little bit just about so talk to me a little bit just about so talk to me a little bit about you know who should be on the team about you know who should be on the team about you know who should be on the team and how do you equip them and you know and how do you equip them and you know and how do you equip them and you know what have you done our seen in the what have you done our seen in the what have you done our seen in the past people first of all I always like past people first of all I always like past people first of all I always like to say people that like to have fun to say people that like to have fun to say people that like to have fun getting your photo taken can sometimes getting your photo taken can sometimes getting your photo taken can sometimes be a nerve-wracking experience right I'm be a nerve-wracking experience right I'm be a nerve-wracking experience right I'm looking right now like you know am I in looking right now like you know am I in looking right now like you know am I in frame do I look good for uh for Jason frame do I look good for uh for Jason frame do I look good for uh for Jason and Bart here what what's going on it and Bart here what what's going on it and Bart here what what's going on it could be a nerve-wracking experience and could be a nerve-wracking experience and could be a nerve-wracking experience and so people who know how to make it that so people who know how to make it that so people who know how to make it that that they engage with people and I not that they engage with people and I not that they engage with people and I not this behind a camera but they're almost this behind a camera but they're almost this behind a camera but they're almost like a director they're a they're like a director they're a they're like a director they're a they're interacting with Talent they're interacting with Talent they're interacting with Talent they're directing them they're they're coaching directing them they're they're coaching directing them they're they're coaching them they're celebrating them somebody them they're celebrating them somebody them they're celebrating them somebody knows how to have fun how to engage um knows how to have fun how to engage um knows how to have fun how to engage um somebody else as well and then at the somebody else as well and then at the somebody else as well and then at the end of the day it's um it's I like to end of the day it's um it's I like to end of the day it's um it's I like to say somebody for our line of work your say somebody for our line of work your say somebody for our line of work your church ministry somebody that likes to church ministry somebody that likes to church ministry somebody that likes to take pictures of people instead of take pictures of people instead of take pictures of people instead of things I'll give a quick story as an things I'll give a quick story as an things I'll give a quick story as an example here I was on a I was on a example here I was on a I was on a example here I was on a I was on a overseeing a volunteer team talk team at overseeing a volunteer team talk team at overseeing a volunteer team talk team at a church a church a church and somebody came up to me and they said and somebody came up to me and they said and somebody came up to me and they said hey I would love to join your team I hey I would love to join your team I hey I would love to join your team I said great and they told me a little bit said great and they told me a little bit said great and they told me a little bit more about me and they kind of more about me and they kind of more about me and they kind of underselling themselves and then they underselling themselves and then they underselling themselves and then they finally said yeah I'm a photographer for finally said yeah I'm a photographer for finally said yeah I'm a photographer for National Geographic and the light bulbs National Geographic and the light bulbs National Geographic and the light bulbs went on I was like oh my goodness I was went on I was like oh my goodness I was went on I was like oh my goodness I was salivating like I've landed the ideal salivating like I've landed the ideal salivating like I've landed the ideal candidate for this volunteer team I was

candidate for this volunteer team I was candidate for this volunteer team I was like oh our photos are going to look like oh our photos are going to look like oh our photos are going to look beautiful our website's goingon to be beautiful our website's goingon to be beautiful our website's goingon to be awesome etc etc and that I struggled awesome etc etc and that I struggled awesome etc etc and that I struggled with that volunteer the most because with that volunteer the most because with that volunteer the most because they were a things photographer they did they were a things photographer they did they were a things photographer they did natur um they did uh Landscapes natur um they did uh Landscapes natur um they did uh Landscapes photography and so all their photos were photography and so all their photos were photography and so all their photos were all wide and they were all establishing all wide and they were all establishing all wide and they were all establishing shots and they were all showcasing shots and they were all showcasing shots and they were all showcasing things so when this person went to an things so when this person went to an things so when this person went to an event they would go to you know the the event they would go to you know the the event they would go to you know the the pizza the youth group year end party and pizza the youth group year end party and pizza the youth group year end party and they had great photos of like the the they had great photos of like the the they had great photos of like the the awards handed up to kids and the tables awards handed up to kids and the tables awards handed up to kids and the tables set up with the decorations and like the set up with the decorations and like the set up with the decorations and like the the room before people showed up like the room before people showed up like the room before people showed up like just showing the ambience of that but just showing the ambience of that but just showing the ambience of that but like no photos of actual people like no photos of actual people like no photos of actual people because he wasn't wired that way so when because he wasn't wired that way so when because he wasn't wired that way so when you when you're when you're getting you when you're when you're getting you when you're when you're getting photographers um you know people have to photographers um you know people have to photographers um you know people have to you need to find people that have a you need to find people that have a you need to find people that have a heart for people as well or if not heart for people as well or if not heart for people as well or if not they're going to end up shooting things they're going to end up shooting things they're going to end up shooting things and you're you're you know at the end of and you're you're you know at the end of and you're you're you know at the end of the day you might need a photo of your the day you might need a photo of your the day you might need a photo of your your church building to put on Google your church building to put on Google your church building to put on Google Maps so people know where they're Maps so people know where they're Maps so people know where they're getting those photos are beneficial but getting those photos are beneficial but getting those photos are beneficial but they're the minimal aspect of what they're the minimal aspect of what they're the minimal aspect of what you're trying to do people you're trying you're trying to do people you're trying you're trying to do people you're trying to capture people so get people who are to capture people so get people who are to capture people so get people who are people people people oriented so important yeah I think that oriented so important yeah I think that oriented so important yeah I think that uh yeah communication is kind of pretty uh yeah communication is kind of pretty uh yeah communication is kind of pretty key in all this right especially when key in all this right especially when key in all this right especially when you're going to have an event and you you're going to have an event and you you're going to have an event and you know how you're gonna you just if you're know how you're gonna you just if you're know how you're gonna you just if you're not doing that if you're not not doing that if you're not not doing that if you're not communicating well you're gonna have a communicating well you're gonna have a communicating well you're gonna have a problem so um what's been some of the so problem so um what's been some of the so problem so um what's been some of the so a couple things here because I a lot of a couple things here because I a lot of a couple things here because I a lot of people a lot of churches kind of depends

people a lot of churches kind of depends people a lot of churches kind of depends on size will either hire people or on size will either hire people or on size will either hire people or they'll relay just rely on their they'll relay just rely on their they'll relay just rely on their volunteers so if you're hiring people volunteers so if you're hiring people volunteers so if you're hiring people there's probably some advice you could there's probably some advice you could there's probably some advice you could give but what about how do you how do give but what about how do you how do give but what about how do you how do you recruit them what do you you know you recruit them what do you you know you recruit them what do you you know how do you get them inspired we talked a how do you get them inspired we talked a how do you get them inspired we talked a little bit about that but how do you little bit about that but how do you little bit about that but how do you actually find these people and then I actually find these people and then I actually find these people and then I guess if you're gonna if you're GNA do a guess if you're gonna if you're GNA do a guess if you're gonna if you're GNA do a hired person what would you what kind of hired person what would you what kind of hired person what would you what kind of advice would you give there wow a lot of advice would you give there wow a lot of advice would you give there wow a lot of great questions there let me talk about great questions there let me talk about great questions there let me talk about in terms of let's start with the in terms of let's start with the in terms of let's start with the volunteer model and I'd say most U volunteer model and I'd say most U volunteer model and I'd say most U Middle to small churches should think Middle to small churches should think Middle to small churches should think through a volunteer-based model uh a through a volunteer-based model uh a through a volunteer-based model uh a high-capacity volunteer who has a gift high-capacity volunteer who has a gift high-capacity volunteer who has a gift or just even an ability to lead people or just even an ability to lead people or just even an ability to lead people doesn't it they don't have to be your doesn't it they don't have to be your doesn't it they don't have to be your expert photography they're just a leader expert photography they're just a leader expert photography they're just a leader somebody who knows to engage other somebody who knows to engage other somebody who knows to engage other people to recruit them to to manage the people to recruit them to to manage the people to recruit them to to manage the team now we can get to the but I team now we can get to the but I team now we can get to the but I encourage most churches to think through encourage most churches to think through encourage most churches to think through that uh framework I know for myself I that uh framework I know for myself I that uh framework I know for myself I came on staff first church I was working came on staff first church I was working came on staff first church I was working at and I was over seeing all the at and I was over seeing all the at and I was over seeing all the artistic artistic artistic disciplines uh video graphic design web disciplines uh video graphic design web disciplines uh video graphic design web design stage design all these things and design stage design all these things and design stage design all these things and I I in terms of my doing I as all of us I I in terms of my doing I as all of us I I in terms of my doing I as all of us a bottleneck then the mentor finally a bottleneck then the mentor finally a bottleneck then the mentor finally told me hey you got to stop doing and told me hey you got to stop doing and told me hey you got to stop doing and you cannot launch another platform you you cannot launch another platform you you cannot launch another platform you cannot launch another artistic team cannot launch another artistic team cannot launch another artistic team until you have the volunteer leadership until you have the volunteer leadership until you have the volunteer leadership to do that now it's going to take twice to do that now it's going to take twice to do that now it's going to take twice as long for you to recruit that team as long for you to recruit that team as long for you to recruit that team instead of you doing it yourself you're instead of you doing it yourself you're instead of you doing it yourself you're going to go 10 times farther with them going to go 10 times farther with them going to go 10 times farther with them and so anybody who's listening to this and so anybody who's listening to this and so anybody who's listening to this podcast uh that small mediumsized Church podcast uh that small mediumsized Church podcast uh that small mediumsized Church think that through take twice as long to

think that through take twice as long to think that through take twice as long to launch the team but then go 10 times launch the team but then go 10 times launch the team but then go 10 times farther through volunteerism because if farther through volunteerism because if farther through volunteerism because if not if you're the part-time staff member not if you're the part-time staff member not if you're the part-time staff member the full-time staff member you are going the full-time staff member you are going the full-time staff member you are going to hit your lid as a doer and I would to hit your lid as a doer and I would to hit your lid as a doer and I would say most Believers working in churches say most Believers working in churches say most Believers working in churches should embody what Paul tells Ephesians should embody what Paul tells Ephesians should embody what Paul tells Ephesians the Believers in Ephesians 4:12 we are the Believers in Ephesians 4:12 we are the Believers in Ephesians 4:12 we are here to equip the work of ministry as a here to equip the work of ministry as a here to equip the work of ministry as a staff member my job is to equip the staff member my job is to equip the staff member my job is to equip the people in the congregation to do the to people in the congregation to do the to people in the congregation to do the to do the work of the ministry as much as do the work of the ministry as much as do the work of the ministry as much as possible instead of myself possible instead of myself possible instead of myself professionalizing it and just doing it professionalizing it and just doing it professionalizing it and just doing it so that's my soap box there so that's my so that's my soap box there so that's my so that's my soap box there so that's my recommendation for small medium and recommendation for small medium and recommendation for small medium and large churches in terms of being large churches in terms of being large churches in terms of being volunteers Centric and when it comes to volunteers Centric and when it comes to volunteers Centric and when it comes to how do you find these volunteers there's how do you find these volunteers there's how do you find these volunteers there's three quick ways I do it the first one three quick ways I do it the first one three quick ways I do it the first one is I found that I used to have a t-shirt is I found that I used to have a t-shirt is I found that I used to have a t-shirt for my photographer team it be black and for my photographer team it be black and for my photographer team it be black and it just said like photography on the it just said like photography on the it just said like photography on the front and I stole this from some church front and I stole this from some church front and I stole this from some church it's not me but I saw some church on the it's not me but I saw some church on the it's not me but I saw some church on the back of the shirt unused landscape it back of the shirt unused landscape it back of the shirt unused landscape it said want to join you know email photo said want to join you know email photo said want to join you know email photo at XYZ church I like that was genius and at XYZ church I like that was genius and at XYZ church I like that was genius and I asked them I said you know I came up I asked them I said you know I came up I asked them I said you know I came up from the photo team member I said how from the photo team member I said how from the photo team member I said how many they said all of our leads come many they said all of our leads come many they said all of our leads come from this where it's um sometimes it's from this where it's um sometimes it's from this where it's um sometimes it's the photographer like I didn't know I the photographer like I didn't know I the photographer like I didn't know I could join this I didn't know how to do could join this I didn't know how to do could join this I didn't know how to do it now I'm literally seeing like as a it now I'm literally seeing like as a it now I'm literally seeing like as a photographer a photographers see other photographer a photographers see other photographer a photographers see other photographers you you watch their work photographers you you watch their work photographers you you watch their work you're like okay kind of watch and then you're like okay kind of watch and then you're like okay kind of watch and then now it's it's literally free now it's it's literally free now it's it's literally free advertisement on the back of the T-shirt advertisement on the back of the T-shirt advertisement on the back of the T-shirt brilliant I can actually do this it's brilliant I can actually do this it's brilliant I can actually do this it's that's helpful for photographers for that's helpful for photographers for that's helpful for photographers for parents who have teens that might not be

parents who have teens that might not be parents who have teens that might not be engaged to church as much as they want engaged to church as much as they want engaged to church as much as they want them to be it's they see that and saying them to be it's they see that and saying them to be it's they see that and saying you are joining that team I'm I'm you are joining that team I'm I'm you are joining that team I'm I'm emailing them right now and getting you emailing them right now and getting you emailing them right now and getting you signed up for thatal team um that's a signed up for thatal team um that's a signed up for thatal team um that's a quick way to do it the other quick ways quick way to do it the other quick ways quick way to do it the other quick ways to do it is um a lot of churches will do to do it is um a lot of churches will do to do it is um a lot of churches will do photo booths Easter Christmas Mother's photo booths Easter Christmas Mother's photo booths Easter Christmas Mother's Day that type of thing and you'll you Day that type of thing and you'll you Day that type of thing and you'll you know people will line up I've watched know people will line up I've watched know people will line up I've watched the great recruitment tool as you watch the great recruitment tool as you watch the great recruitment tool as you watch and you see the person you just watch and you see the person you just watch and you see the person you just watch the line go there because know now what the line go there because know now what the line go there because know now what you have you have a free a SE test of you have you have a free a SE test of you have you have a free a SE test of the photo photographic abilities of your the photo photographic abilities of your the photo photographic abilities of your church yeah and so you'll people come up church yeah and so you'll people come up church yeah and so you'll people come up and they'll you know click and they'll and they'll you know click and they'll and they'll you know click and they'll walk away um or some other people you walk away um or some other people you walk away um or some other people you know they're like hey get in titer you know they're like hey get in titer you know they're like hey get in titer you know come out um let me get down a know come out um let me get down a know come out um let me get down a little bit you're like oh photo team little bit you're like oh photo team little bit you're like oh photo team member right and you're just you're just member right and you're just you're just member right and you're just you're just making Jane photo team member and they making Jane photo team member and they making Jane photo team member and they they might not be on a you know on a they might not be on a you know on a they might not be on a you know on a highend camera you can just see the highend camera you can just see the highend camera you can just see the skill sets with what they're using with skill sets with what they're using with skill sets with what they're using with their phone second way at which and Rec their phone second way at which and Rec their phone second way at which and Rec recruit them and then the last thing is recruit them and then the last thing is recruit them and then the last thing is anytime you have an event going on um anytime you have an event going on um anytime you have an event going on um especially like where parents would want especially like where parents would want especially like where parents would want to naturally take photos say it's your to naturally take photos say it's your to naturally take photos say it's your your Christmas production uh say it's me your Christmas production uh say it's me your Christmas production uh say it's me the VBS all the kids are on stage you the VBS all the kids are on stage you the VBS all the kids are on stage you you now look you don't look on the stage you now look you don't look on the stage you now look you don't look on the stage but you look into the audience and you but you look into the audience and you but you look into the audience and you look to the parents holding the look to the parents holding the look to the parents holding the expensive cameras you spent $22,000 on expensive cameras you spent $22,000 on expensive cameras you spent $22,000 on that camera isn't it a shame that you that camera isn't it a shame that you that camera isn't it a shame that you only pull it out once a year what about only pull it out once a year what about only pull it out once a year what about bringing it up six times a year serving bringing it up six times a year serving bringing it up six times a year serving the kingdom and using that expensive

the kingdom and using that expensive the kingdom and using that expensive camera what would you say so those are camera what would you say so those are camera what would you say so those are like three quick ways that I've like three quick ways that I've like three quick ways that I've recruited for these teams that I found recruited for these teams that I found recruited for these teams that I found them super super instead of just them super super instead of just them super super instead of just standing in the stage right ping more standing in the stage right ping more standing in the stage right ping more volunteers you have to be more proactive volunteers you have to be more proactive volunteers you have to be more proactive but the t-shirts photo booths and then but the t-shirts photo booths and then but the t-shirts photo booths and then looking into your audience to see see looking into your audience to see see looking into your audience to see see who already has expensive camera gear who already has expensive camera gear who already has expensive camera gear are three great ways are three great ways are three great ways to can I comment on the T-shirt thing to can I comment on the T-shirt thing to can I comment on the T-shirt thing for just a second there's a dual benefit for just a second there's a dual benefit for just a second there's a dual benefit to having photography team t-shirts and to having photography team t-shirts and to having photography team t-shirts and that is that you readily identify the that is that you readily identify the that is that you readily identify the people who are walking around taking people who are walking around taking people who are walking around taking photos that they are not some randos in photos that they are not some randos in photos that they are not some randos in your church taking photos of people in your church taking photos of people in your church taking photos of people in the church I actually had a church that the church I actually had a church that the church I actually had a church that did that one time they hired a part-time did that one time they hired a part-time did that one time they hired a part-time staff member who they then gave their staff member who they then gave their staff member who they then gave their DSLR and this person who was new in the DSLR and this person who was new in the DSLR and this person who was new in the church the church was just big enough church the church was just big enough church the church was just big enough that you couldn't really know everyone that you couldn't really know everyone that you couldn't really know everyone but just small enough that a lot of but just small enough that a lot of but just small enough that a lot of people who' been around a while thought people who' been around a while thought people who' been around a while thought that they knew everyone and all of a that they knew everyone and all of a that they knew everyone and all of a sudden on Sunday mornings there's a sudden on Sunday mornings there's a sudden on Sunday mornings there's a strange person that they don't know strange person that they don't know strange person that they don't know walking around with a camera taking walking around with a camera taking walking around with a camera taking everybody's pictures and it it threw everybody's pictures and it it threw everybody's pictures and it it threw some people off some people were a some people off some people were a some people off some people were a little bit disconcerted by it I'm like little bit disconcerted by it I'm like little bit disconcerted by it I'm like they didn't give them a l give her a they didn't give them a l give her a they didn't give them a l give her a lanyard a t-shirt or anything to lanyard a t-shirt or anything to lanyard a t-shirt or anything to identify that she was officially taking identify that she was officially taking identify that she was officially taking photographs for the church so there's a photographs for the church so there's a photographs for the church so there's a dual benefit to having those dual benefit to having those dual benefit to having those t-shirts yeah and it legitimizes t-shirts yeah and it legitimizes t-shirts yeah and it legitimizes whoever's there like if you see someone whoever's there like if you see someone whoever's there like if you see someone up front like could they standing there up front like could they standing there up front like could they standing there that's odd oh I see what they're doing I that's odd oh I see what they're doing I that's odd oh I see what they're doing I they're wearing the lanyard they're they're wearing the lanyard they're they're wearing the lanyard they're wearing the T-shirt I I kind of feel wearing the T-shirt I I kind of feel wearing the T-shirt I I kind of feel like you can get into any if you hold an like you can get into any if you hold an like you can get into any if you hold an expensive camera and you're wearing a

expensive camera and you're wearing a expensive camera and you're wearing a black shirt and it says media on the black shirt and it says media on the black shirt and it says media on the front Emmy Golden Globes Oscars you just front Emmy Golden Globes Oscars you just front Emmy Golden Globes Oscars you just walk right walk right walk right you're I guess you're official right it you're I guess you're official right it you're I guess you're official right it just legitimizes that position just legitimizes that position just legitimizes that position so um speaking of like going over to the so um speaking of like going over to the so um speaking of like going over to the paid you know I that's you probably have paid you know I that's you probably have paid you know I that's you probably have some advice my advice on paid is be some advice my advice on paid is be some advice my advice on paid is be careful who you hire um I've I've careful who you hire um I've I've careful who you hire um I've I've actually had some churches that they've actually had some churches that they've actually had some churches that they've hired a paid professional to come out hired a paid professional to come out hired a paid professional to come out only to find out that if they actually only to find out that if they actually only to find out that if they actually wanted the photos they had to buy the wanted the photos they had to buy the wanted the photos they had to buy the photos H so not you're paying this photos H so not you're paying this photos H so not you're paying this person to come out and shoot they're not person to come out and shoot they're not person to come out and shoot they're not giving you the all the photos you had to giving you the all the photos you had to giving you the all the photos you had to actually purchase the photos which I'm actually purchase the photos which I'm actually purchase the photos which I'm likeing oh my goodness didn't ask the likeing oh my goodness didn't ask the likeing oh my goodness didn't ask the right questions did you no you didn't right questions did you no you didn't right questions did you no you didn't ask the right questions right yeah look ask the right questions right yeah look ask the right questions right yeah look for the pine but you I think you're it's for the pine but you I think you're it's for the pine but you I think you're it's it's helpful Bart because you're kind of it's helpful Bart because you're kind of it's helpful Bart because you're kind of I'm cutting the baby in half here like I'm cutting the baby in half here like I'm cutting the baby in half here like we're we're talking about like a team at we're we're talking about like a team at we're we're talking about like a team at just run of volunteers or like hiring a just run of volunteers or like hiring a just run of volunteers or like hiring a part-time or a full-time staff member to part-time or a full-time staff member to part-time or a full-time staff member to oversee some of this or maybe some oversee some of this or maybe some oversee some of this or maybe some churches around in the middle which I churches around in the middle which I churches around in the middle which I think this is helpful especially when it think this is helpful especially when it think this is helpful especially when it comes to a website where you really need comes to a website where you really need comes to a website where you really need we don't we can't use stock photos we we don't we can't use stock photos we we don't we can't use stock photos we really need great great great photos of really need great great great photos of really need great great great photos of our people and our volunteer base is our people and our volunteer base is our people and our volunteer base is taking good photos but it's not you know taking good photos but it's not you know taking good photos but it's not you know it's kind of Instagram worthy right now it's kind of Instagram worthy right now it's kind of Instagram worthy right now it's not website live here for the next it's not website live here for the next it's not website live here for the next 12 to 18 months worthy we should hire we 12 to 18 months worthy we should hire we 12 to 18 months worthy we should hire we should hire somebody and that's a great should hire somebody and that's a great should hire somebody and that's a great expenditure of investment for a church expenditure of investment for a church expenditure of investment for a church to make that when you find the right to make that when you find the right to make that when you find the right person and read through their contract person and read through their contract person and read through their contract clearly but like hey two you know two clearly but like hey two you know two clearly but like hey two you know two Sunday mornings we're going to pay you

Sunday mornings we're going to pay you Sunday mornings we're going to pay you $1,000 $2,000 whatever it is and we $1,000 $2,000 whatever it is and we $1,000 $2,000 whatever it is and we expect this photoshot list that's a expect this photoshot list that's a expect this photoshot list that's a great especially for the website wise great especially for the website wise great especially for the website wise investment for any size Church well can investment for any size Church well can investment for any size Church well can I ask you a question you you've I ask you a question you you've I ask you a question you you've mentioned photoshot lists you did that mentioned photoshot lists you did that mentioned photoshot lists you did that in the very early part of the the in the very early part of the the in the very early part of the the episode and and our conversation and you episode and and our conversation and you episode and and our conversation and you just mentioned it again can you for for just mentioned it again can you for for just mentioned it again can you for for those that have never put together a those that have never put together a those that have never put together a photography shot list I'm a photography shot list I'm a photography shot list I'm a communications director uh let's speak communications director uh let's speak communications director uh let's speak specifically maybe to someone who's um specifically maybe to someone who's um specifically maybe to someone who's um thinking about a website redesign if you thinking about a website redesign if you thinking about a website redesign if you are going to put together a shot list are going to put together a shot list are going to put together a shot list for a photographer whether that's paid for a photographer whether that's paid for a photographer whether that's paid or volunteer uh what does that look like or volunteer uh what does that look like or volunteer uh what does that look like what what are you putting together what what what are you putting together what what what are you putting together what are you providing that are you providing that are you providing that photographer first thing I would say is photographer first thing I would say is photographer first thing I would say is smiled get as many Smiles you can almost smiled get as many Smiles you can almost smiled get as many Smiles you can almost every photo someone should be smiling um every photo someone should be smiling um every photo someone should be smiling um uh um make this is and man we're going uh um make this is and man we're going uh um make this is and man we're going get into the weeds already um show ad U get into the weeds already um show ad U get into the weeds already um show ad U accurately show the diversity within accurately show the diversity within accurately show the diversity within your church so another words if you are your church so another words if you are your church so another words if you are predominantly this and you have a small predominantly this and you have a small predominantly this and you have a small section of this don't over and flate section of this don't over and flate section of this don't over and flate that and and do a bait and switch people that and and do a bait and switch people that and and do a bait and switch people feel insulted by that and so and feel insulted by that and so and feel insulted by that and so and whatever the this and the that are whatever the this and the that are whatever the this and the that are fairly accurately represent that and fairly accurately represent that and fairly accurately represent that and don't try to overinflate who you don't try to overinflate who you don't try to overinflate who you currently are now you now you may be currently are now you now you may be currently are now you now you may be aspirational and we're we're we're aspirational and we're we're we're aspirational and we're we're we're trying to Target this demographic that trying to Target this demographic that trying to Target this demographic that we're underrepresented in and so you we're underrepresented in and so you we're underrepresented in and so you might skew that up don't try to do a might skew that up don't try to do a might skew that up don't try to do a 50/50 or 9010 again feels like a bait

50/50 or 9010 again feels like a bait 50/50 or 9010 again feels like a bait and switch especially for the 10% that and switch especially for the 10% that and switch especially for the 10% that show up and saying this is not what you show up and saying this is not what you show up and saying this is not what you showcase you you're something that is showcase you you're something that is showcase you you're something that is not accurate um make again make sure not accurate um make again make sure not accurate um make again make sure it's more people based than thing based it's more people based than thing based it's more people based than thing based you may have a beautiful Cafe I don't you may have a beautiful Cafe I don't you may have a beautiful Cafe I don't necessarily want to see it I want to see necessarily want to see it I want to see necessarily want to see it I want to see the people at the cafe drinking the the people at the cafe drinking the the people at the cafe drinking the coffee um make sure it's at the end of coffee um make sure it's at the end of coffee um make sure it's at the end of the day make sure it's about the people the day make sure it's about the people the day make sure it's about the people you're trying to serve more than the you're trying to serve more than the you're trying to serve more than the people doing the serving so your staff people doing the serving so your staff people doing the serving so your staff are phenomenal that's great your lead are phenomenal that's great your lead are phenomenal that's great your lead Pastor phenomenal they should be on Pastor phenomenal they should be on Pastor phenomenal they should be on there to some degree don't overemphasize there to some degree don't overemphasize there to some degree don't overemphasize who they are and we emphasize your who they are and we emphasize your who they are and we emphasize your target audience who that you're trying target audience who that you're trying target audience who that you're trying to reach um and I'm say like try um the to reach um and I'm say like try um the to reach um and I'm say like try um the other thing too I've said this before is other thing too I've said this before is other thing too I've said this before is don't just shoot the beautiful people don't just shoot the beautiful people don't just shoot the beautiful people and so if I were you know if you were a and so if I were you know if you were a and so if I were you know if you were a church you probably wouldn't naturally church you probably wouldn't naturally church you probably wouldn't naturally shoot me I'm not you know I'm never shoot me I'm not you know I'm never shoot me I'm not you know I'm never going to make 's most handsome man of going to make 's most handsome man of going to make 's most handsome man of the year award and that's okay but the year award and that's okay but the year award and that's okay but sometimes because most of our content is sometimes because most of our content is sometimes because most of our content is so curated and our world puts such an so curated and our world puts such an so curated and our world puts such an emphasis on physical Beauty sometimes to emphasis on physical Beauty sometimes to emphasis on physical Beauty sometimes to be honest we overemphasize that and and be honest we overemphasize that and and be honest we overemphasize that and and and so now everyone should should be and so now everyone should should be and so now everyone should should be shot the most complimentary way in which shot the most complimentary way in which shot the most complimentary way in which you can in which you highlighting the you can in which you highlighting the you can in which you highlighting the natural beauty Beauty but don't to shoot natural beauty Beauty but don't to shoot natural beauty Beauty but don't to shoot the Attractive people in your church the Attractive people in your church the Attractive people in your church again it feels like a bait and switch again it feels like a bait and switch again it feels like a bait and switch feels false and it is not Kingdom Minded feels false and it is not Kingdom Minded feels false and it is not Kingdom Minded that is not how Jesus pursued us he did that is not how Jesus pursued us he did that is not how Jesus pursued us he did not just pursued people with uh brains not just pursued people with uh brains not just pursued people with uh brains bucks and Brawn he just did the bucks and Brawn he just did the bucks and Brawn he just did the influential people in our world he he influential people in our world he he influential people in our world he he attracted um everybody and so make sure

attracted um everybody and so make sure attracted um everybody and so make sure that your website showcase some of that that your website showcase some of that that your website showcase some of that stuff yeah I when I rebuild websites I I stuff yeah I when I rebuild websites I I stuff yeah I when I rebuild websites I I try to try to try to coach the church we're building their coach the church we're building their coach the church we're building their website on to say I want to have that website on to say I want to have that website on to say I want to have that authentic experience online to in person authentic experience online to in person authentic experience online to in person I don't want there to be I want I don't want there to be I want I don't want there to be I want consistency I want a flow if you see an consistency I want a flow if you see an consistency I want a flow if you see an experience on the website when you come experience on the website when you come experience on the website when you come in person you should have that same in person you should have that same in person you should have that same experience like you said don't bait and experience like you said don't bait and experience like you said don't bait and switch me that's that's just wrong switch me that's that's just wrong switch me that's that's just wrong you're you're gonna offend more people you're you're gonna offend more people you're you're gonna offend more people than than not so um okay I want to keep than than not so um okay I want to keep than than not so um okay I want to keep going here because there I got more going here because there I got more going here because there I got more stuff more questions to ask you about stuff more questions to ask you about stuff more questions to ask you about stuff uh stuff uh stuff uh give me your advice on two things cover give me your advice on two things cover give me your advice on two things cover kind of two things one would be you know kind of two things one would be you know kind of two things one would be you know what's a what's your best approach to what's a what's your best approach to what's a what's your best approach to organizing And archiving photos because organizing And archiving photos because organizing And archiving photos because I think sometimes they can I we're so I think sometimes they can I we're so I think sometimes they can I we're so guilty that we take pictures they're guilty that we take pictures they're guilty that we take pictures they're everywhere and it's they they're now everywhere and it's they they're now everywhere and it's they they're now they're trying to find every closet that they're trying to find every closet that they're trying to find every closet that they got photos in you know digital they got photos in you know digital they got photos in you know digital closet so to speak um so how do you closet so to speak um so how do you closet so to speak um so how do you organize and then when it comes to photo organize and then when it comes to photo organize and then when it comes to photo releases I think a lot of churches will releases I think a lot of churches will releases I think a lot of churches will ask me like do you do we get people to ask me like do you do we get people to ask me like do you do we get people to sign because we're going to user picture sign because we're going to user picture sign because we're going to user picture so could you speak into those two areas so could you speak into those two areas so could you speak into those two areas y now we're getting to the sexy stuff y now we're getting to the sexy stuff y now we're getting to the sexy stuff photo release forms oh my goodness this photo release forms oh my goodness this photo release forms oh my goodness this is this is the stuff that our viewers is this is the stuff that our viewers is this is the stuff that our viewers came to hear but important I love it I came to hear but important I love it I came to hear but important I love it I love it um so so a couple things that love it um so so a couple things that love it um so so a couple things that you're you picking up the Rock and kind you're you picking up the Rock and kind you're you picking up the Rock and kind of looking at the worms wriggling of looking at the worms wriggling of looking at the worms wriggling underneath this is not this is not the underneath this is not this is not the underneath this is not this is not the exciting stuff but it's the important exciting stuff but it's the important exciting stuff but it's the important stuff where a lot of photo teams fall

stuff where a lot of photo teams fall stuff where a lot of photo teams fall short in terms of the the storing the short in terms of the the storing the short in terms of the the storing the archiving and then the releases so when archiving and then the releases so when archiving and then the releases so when it comes to the the archiving the first it comes to the the archiving the first it comes to the the archiving the first I'm going to work backwards forward I'm going to work backwards forward I'm going to work backwards forward before we even get there what is the before we even get there what is the before we even get there what is the expectation for your photographers expectation for your photographers expectation for your photographers couple things I'd always say is for them couple things I'd always say is for them couple things I'd always say is for them um never do a shoo and dump so your um never do a shoo and dump so your um never do a shoo and dump so your volunteers shoot and then they dump all volunteers shoot and then they dump all volunteers shoot and then they dump all their photos onto somebody else no no no their photos onto somebody else no no no their photos onto somebody else no no no each individual photo photographer each individual photo photographer each individual photo photographer should curate and edit their own work should curate and edit their own work should curate and edit their own work first of all because they know when first of all because they know when first of all because they know when they're shooting you know they know they're shooting you know they know they're shooting you know they know which moments were great and they which moments were great and they which moments were great and they already know what that is so have that already know what that is so have that already know what that is so have that expectation for your volunteers it's a expectation for your volunteers it's a expectation for your volunteers it's a it's two-hour commitment you're only it's two-hour commitment you're only it's two-hour commitment you're only shooting for one hour and then you you shooting for one hour and then you you shooting for one hour and then you you have to stop and then the next hour you have to stop and then the next hour you have to stop and then the next hour you um you curate and edit your work then um you curate and edit your work then um you curate and edit your work then you upload it so what's the expectation you upload it so what's the expectation you upload it so what's the expectation maybe it's you know give me your give me maybe it's you know give me your give me maybe it's you know give me your give me what you think your 50 all your 50 best what you think your 50 all your 50 best what you think your 50 all your 50 best shots are but then give me another shots are but then give me another shots are but then give me another folder just your 10 highlight photos so folder just your 10 highlight photos so folder just your 10 highlight photos so if I got multiple photographers going on if I got multiple photographers going on if I got multiple photographers going on I can I could have all their photos that I can I could have all their photos that I can I could have all their photos that are decent but then if I need real quick are decent but then if I need real quick are decent but then if I need real quick access to stuff I have I have all and I access to stuff I have I have all and I access to stuff I have I have all and I have their highlights um and when it have their highlights um and when it have their highlights um and when it comes to the highlights I want their raw comes to the highlights I want their raw comes to the highlights I want their raw in case I want to come back and work in case I want to come back and work in case I want to come back and work with that and then I want whatever with that and then I want whatever with that and then I want whatever they've edited and dumped me in a JPEG they've edited and dumped me in a JPEG they've edited and dumped me in a JPEG so that's that's the expectation with so that's that's the expectation with so that's that's the expectation with the team members when it comes to the team members when it comes to the team members when it comes to platforms platforms are pretty they're platforms platforms are pretty they're platforms platforms are pretty they're not ubiquitous there's pros and cons not ubiquitous there's pros and cons not ubiquitous there's pros and cons each I wouldn't necessarily spend the each I wouldn't necessarily spend the each I wouldn't necessarily spend the time to highlight each of those and time to highlight each of those and time to highlight each of those and argue each of those I I would argue more argue each of those I I would argue more argue each of those I I would argue more so consistency whatever you're on um

so consistency whatever you're on um so consistency whatever you're on um stay try to consistent to that the work stay try to consistent to that the work stay try to consistent to that the work to migrate from one to another is pretty to migrate from one to another is pretty to migrate from one to another is pretty pretty laborious yeah um and then it's pretty laborious yeah um and then it's pretty laborious yeah um and then it's and then the other thing is might feel a and then the other thing is might feel a and then the other thing is might feel a little um little old school I'm still a little um little old school I'm still a little um little old school I'm still a physical backup guy myself that I've physical backup guy myself that I've physical backup guy myself that I've just heard I haven't experienced it I just heard I haven't experienced it I just heard I haven't experienced it I heard the horror stories that we lost it heard the horror stories that we lost it heard the horror stories that we lost it all in this cloud-based service and then all in this cloud-based service and then all in this cloud-based service and then it's all gone and so I always still back it's all gone and so I always still back it's all gone and so I always still back things up uh when it comes to the the things up uh when it comes to the the things up uh when it comes to the the hard drive um and then the other thing hard drive um and then the other thing hard drive um and then the other thing too is in ter of that consistency B too is in ter of that consistency B too is in ter of that consistency B consistent with your your naming consistent with your your naming consistent with your your naming structure and your filing structure you structure and your filing structure you structure and your filing structure you could do it you know year month week I could do it you know year month week I could do it you know year month week I like to do it event based so or Ministry like to do it event based so or Ministry like to do it event based so or Ministry based so you know we have photos in our based so you know we have photos in our based so you know we have photos in our um you know all Church events we have um you know all Church events we have um you know all Church events we have you know Christmas Men's Ministry you know Christmas Men's Ministry you know Christmas Men's Ministry women's ministry youth children and then women's ministry youth children and then women's ministry youth children and then that breaks up so within the children we that breaks up so within the children we that breaks up so within the children we have your VBS you have your weekly have your VBS you have your weekly have your VBS you have your weekly Sunday school you have your your sports Sunday school you have your your sports Sunday school you have your your sports Ministry whatever it is I like to go not Ministry whatever it is I like to go not Ministry whatever it is I like to go not through chronologically but based upon through chronologically but based upon through chronologically but based upon many Street areas just having that very many Street areas just having that very many Street areas just having that very consistent so when you go back okay I consistent so when you go back okay I consistent so when you go back okay I want to go back to 2018 and then it's want to go back to 2018 and then it's want to go back to 2018 and then it's like really clear how to find that photo like really clear how to find that photo like really clear how to find that photo instead of just like it's a f folder instead of just like it's a f folder instead of just like it's a f folder folder with all the f photos from 2018 folder with all the f photos from 2018 folder with all the f photos from 2018 and no file structure Ah that's that's a and no file structure Ah that's that's a and no file structure Ah that's that's a that's that is a recipe for disaster that's that is a recipe for disaster that's that is a recipe for disaster when you want to go back to try to when you want to go back to try to when you want to go back to try to access some stuff so the name of the access some stuff so the name of the access some stuff so the name of the game is consistency there are some game is consistency there are some game is consistency there are some platforms now that I mean if you're platforms now that I mean if you're platforms now that I mean if you're going to use like you know Google drive going to use like you know Google drive going to use like you know Google drive or share file or something like that or share file or something like that or share file or something like that it's it's it is you have to kind of

it's it's it is you have to kind of it's it's it is you have to kind of create your own structures there are create your own structures there are create your own structures there are some platforms that are subscription some platforms that are subscription some platforms that are subscription based now where all your photographers based now where all your photographers based now where all your photographers can share and you can actually add tags can share and you can actually add tags can share and you can actually add tags to your photos so you could literally to your photos so you could literally to your photos so you could literally add like tags which are like volunteers add like tags which are like volunteers add like tags which are like volunteers Sunday morning men you can add as many Sunday morning men you can add as many Sunday morning men you can add as many tags as you want so that when you're tags as you want so that when you're tags as you want so that when you're actually looking for a photo you can actually looking for a photo you can actually looking for a photo you can search by the tags and uh and get a search by the tags and uh and get a search by the tags and uh and get a wider variety of photos that might have wider variety of photos that might have wider variety of photos that might have been taken you know over a six week or been taken you know over a six week or been taken you know over a six week or six month time period but all men who six month time period but all men who six month time period but all men who are volunteers right or you know men are volunteers right or you know men are volunteers right or you know men over 40 or something of that nature but over 40 or something of that nature but over 40 or something of that nature but you can create tags in those platforms you can create tags in those platforms you can create tags in those platforms which I think is super helpful let me which I think is super helpful let me which I think is super helpful let me push back there for a second B like to push back there for a second B like to push back there for a second B like to me like if my in terms of what I've seen me like if my in terms of what I've seen me like if my in terms of what I've seen volunteers like doing like they're going volunteers like doing like they're going volunteers like doing like they're going to love taking photos they're gonna to love taking photos they're gonna to love taking photos they're gonna they're going to love it they're they're going to love it they're they're going to love it they're probably going to like editing they're probably going to like editing they're probably going to like editing they're GNA be okay with creating folder GNA be okay with creating folder GNA be okay with creating folder structure I am struggled to get people structure I am struggled to get people structure I am struggled to get people to tag like I hear that I've never been to tag like I hear that I've never been to tag like I hear that I've never been able to do that successfully Maybe just able to do that successfully Maybe just able to do that successfully Maybe just by a lack of leadership but have you by a lack of leadership but have you by a lack of leadership but have you seen have you seen people oh I can't seen have you seen people oh I can't seen have you seen people oh I can't wait to tag these photos I usually see wait to tag these photos I usually see wait to tag these photos I usually see volunteers tap out if I if I can get a volunteers tap out if I if I can get a volunteers tap out if I if I can get a good folder structure I'm okay with that good folder structure I'm okay with that good folder structure I'm okay with that however here's another person you can however here's another person you can however here's another person you can add to your photography team who isn't a add to your photography team who isn't a add to your photography team who isn't a photographer someone who's strongly photographer someone who's strongly photographer someone who's strongly administrative who would love to sit administrative who would love to sit administrative who would love to sit down in those folders the weeks after down in those folders the weeks after down in those folders the weeks after all the photos get dumped and go through all the photos get dumped and go through all the photos get dumped and go through them and tag all the photos so invite them and tag all the photos so invite them and tag all the photos so invite somebody else to be a part of your team somebody else to be a part of your team somebody else to be a part of your team who's got a high Administration gift but who's got a high Administration gift but who's got a high Administration gift but maybe who isn't a photographer there you maybe who isn't a photographer there you maybe who isn't a photographer there you go there solv that problem yeah I think

go there solv that problem yeah I think go there solv that problem yeah I think about the I can't I can't even remember about the I can't I can't even remember about the I can't I can't even remember what I last month let alone six months what I last month let alone six months what I last month let alone six months or a year ago so my advice is think or a year ago so my advice is think or a year ago so my advice is think about you in the future what you're about you in the future what you're about you in the future what you're looking for but then also think about looking for but then also think about looking for but then also think about your replacement somebody else who's your replacement somebody else who's your replacement somebody else who's gonna be sitting in your seat whenever gonna be sitting in your seat whenever gonna be sitting in your seat whenever that is and you're going to put them in that is and you're going to put them in that is and you're going to put them in a in a bind if you don't take the extra a in a bind if you don't take the extra a in a bind if you don't take the extra steps and do what you know both of you steps and do what you know both of you steps and do what you know both of you guys are saying and maybe it is a a guys are saying and maybe it is a a guys are saying and maybe it is a a volunteer assistant versus the actual volunteer assistant versus the actual volunteer assistant versus the actual team but boy that structure I tell you team but boy that structure I tell you team but boy that structure I tell you it with with with not only photos but it with with with not only photos but it with with with not only photos but also also also videos is a huge gift to yourself and to videos is a huge gift to yourself and to videos is a huge gift to yourself and to the Future you in that seat so yes why the Future you in that seat so yes why the Future you in that seat so yes why don't you speak to about some photo don't you speak to about some photo don't you speak to about some photo releases so three quick three things releases so three quick three things releases so three quick three things here don't ask your photographers to be here don't ask your photographers to be here don't ask your photographers to be handing out releases and trying to do handing out releases and trying to do handing out releases and trying to do that they're there to get photos not that they're there to get photos not that they're there to get photos not releases so don't give that releases so don't give that releases so don't give that responsibility to your photographer two responsibility to your photographer two responsibility to your photographer two other quick ways to handle that first of other quick ways to handle that first of other quick ways to handle that first of all put make sure that is on the your all put make sure that is on the your all put make sure that is on the your kids ministry intake form so anyone kids ministry intake form so anyone kids ministry intake form so anyone who's signing their kids into the who's signing their kids into the who's signing their kids into the children's ministry for the first time children's ministry for the first time children's ministry for the first time is going to be signing some type of is going to be signing some type of is going to be signing some type of release form saying I released my kid release form saying I released my kid release form saying I released my kid into your care app on there very clearly into your care app on there very clearly into your care app on there very clearly not hit it in like size six spot on the not hit it in like size six spot on the not hit it in like size six spot on the very bottom but very clearly put it on very bottom but very clearly put it on very bottom but very clearly put it on there as a bullet point is a photo there as a bullet point is a photo there as a bullet point is a photo release form that I release the church release form that I release the church release form that I release the church to take photos of my children for to take photos of my children for to take photos of my children for promotional purposes um again I say it promotional purposes um again I say it promotional purposes um again I say it very clearly because 99 out of 100 very clearly because 99 out of 100 very clearly because 99 out of 100 people are going to say yeah sure I've people are going to say yeah sure I've people are going to say yeah sure I've seen you guys take it you're you're very seen you guys take it you're you're very seen you guys take it you're you're very tactful um you know you're not doing

tactful um you know you're not doing tactful um you know you're not doing anything that I'm I'm concerned about anything that I'm I'm concerned about anything that I'm I'm concerned about now the one person who doesn't he says now the one person who doesn't he says now the one person who doesn't he says I'm not going to do that and this is an I'm not going to do that and this is an I'm not going to do that and this is an this is a hill they want to die on well this is a hill they want to die on well this is a hill they want to die on well at that point you can say thank you for at that point you can say thank you for at that point you can say thank you for expressing that we will make sure not to expressing that we will make sure not to expressing that we will make sure not to take photos of your children and then take photos of your children and then take photos of your children and then you can just make sure that your you can just make sure that your you can just make sure that your photographers are aware this is this one photographers are aware this is this one photographers are aware this is this one sh you know don't take photos of that or sh you know don't take photos of that or sh you know don't take photos of that or if it even the inconspicuously got taken if it even the inconspicuously got taken if it even the inconspicuously got taken up then your communication team in terms up then your communication team in terms up then your communication team in terms of marketing and just if you ever see a of marketing and just if you ever see a of marketing and just if you ever see a photo the Shelf make sure the parents photo the Shelf make sure the parents photo the Shelf make sure the parents have not given us permission to use them have not given us permission to use them have not given us permission to use them for fellow or purposes let's honor that for fellow or purposes let's honor that for fellow or purposes let's honor that so that's the quick that's the first you so that's the quick that's the first you so that's the quick that's the first you haven't done that do that next week let haven't done that do that next week let haven't done that do that next week let me comment on that real quick let me let me comment on that real quick let me let me comment on that real quick let me let me comment on that really quick man me comment on that really quick man me comment on that really quick man because I've actually seen churches because I've actually seen churches because I've actually seen churches large churches do this and because you large churches do this and because you large churches do this and because you don't know all the people it can be a don't know all the people it can be a don't know all the people it can be a little bit tricky one of the churches little bit tricky one of the churches little bit tricky one of the churches that I was working with the way that that I was working with the way that that I was working with the way that they were dealing with that was um when they were dealing with that was um when they were dealing with that was um when they printed out the name badges for the they printed out the name badges for the they printed out the name badges for the kids there would be like a purple dot on kids there would be like a purple dot on kids there would be like a purple dot on on the kid's name badge who was a no on the kid's name badge who was a no on the kid's name badge who was a no photography allowed kid so you know you photography allowed kid so you know you photography allowed kid so you know you might have had out of 50 or 60 or 70 might have had out of 50 or 60 or 70 might have had out of 50 or 60 or 70 kids in your children's ministry there kids in your children's ministry there kids in your children's ministry there might have been four or five that you might have been four or five that you might have been four or five that you didn't have releases for and if they had didn't have releases for and if they had didn't have releases for and if they had a purple dot on their name tag those a purple dot on their name tag those a purple dot on their name tag those kids were out you didn't take photos of kids were out you didn't take photos of kids were out you didn't take photos of those kids so it was a very simple those kids so it was a very simple those kids so it was a very simple solution kid didn't know why they had a solution kid didn't know why they had a solution kid didn't know why they had a purple dot but the photographers did purple dot but the photographers did purple dot but the photographers did yeah and the other thing too is this is yeah and the other thing too is this is yeah and the other thing too is this is this is an opportunity it's a it's this is an opportunity it's a it's this is an opportunity it's a it's almost a pastoral and discipleship almost a pastoral and discipleship almost a pastoral and discipleship opportunity where if a parent comes like opportunity where if a parent comes like opportunity where if a parent comes like some you know some you know some you know sometimes somebody may be coming in with sometimes somebody may be coming in with sometimes somebody may be coming in with a with an I'm trying to be graceful

a with an I'm trying to be graceful a with an I'm trying to be graceful here maybe they're struggling with a here maybe they're struggling with a here maybe they're struggling with a high level of fear and anxiety in their high level of fear and anxiety in their high level of fear and anxiety in their lives and said so even like even before lives and said so even like even before lives and said so even like even before if someone doesn't check the box tell me if someone doesn't check the box tell me if someone doesn't check the box tell me why not what what's going on in your why not what what's going on in your why not what what's going on in your life what what what is happening in your life what what what is happening in your life what what what is happening in your life what what are you seeing around you life what what are you seeing around you life what what are you seeing around you how can I walk you through this and and how can I walk you through this and and how can I walk you through this and and possibly helping relieve some the fears possibly helping relieve some the fears possibly helping relieve some the fears and the tensions that you and like to be and the tensions that you and like to be and the tensions that you and like to be frank to be honest like I would I would frank to be honest like I would I would frank to be honest like I would I would hate to have to do the VBS group photo hate to have to do the VBS group photo hate to have to do the VBS group photo they say Okay Jane and John uh please they say Okay Jane and John uh please they say Okay Jane and John uh please step out with the photo step out with the photo step out with the photo lineup Mom and Dad don't want it you lineup Mom and Dad don't want it you lineup Mom and Dad don't want it you know um so just like help me honor you know um so just like help me honor you know um so just like help me honor you help me honor your children um you know help me honor your children um you know help me honor your children um you know and we can tell you some boundaries that and we can tell you some boundaries that and we can tell you some boundaries that we have like you know what we do a um we we have like you know what we do a um we we have like you know what we do a um we do a water day at the end of BBS and do a water day at the end of BBS and do a water day at the end of BBS and kids we don't take any photos for that kids we don't take any photos for that kids we don't take any photos for that we just like really clear that is just we just like really clear that is just we just like really clear that is just it's unnecessary for us so we have a it's unnecessary for us so we have a it's unnecessary for us so we have a number of standards that we hold to that number of standards that we hold to that number of standards that we hold to that we want to make sure that you feel your we want to make sure that you feel your we want to make sure that you feel your kids are super kids are super kids are super yeah and then the other quick the quick yeah and then the other quick the quick yeah and then the other quick the quick one to cover your your butts a little one to cover your your butts a little one to cover your your butts a little more laely is to have someone at your more laely is to have someone at your more laely is to have someone at your welcome center your welcome desk that welcome center your welcome desk that welcome center your welcome desk that information section on a plard doesn't information section on a plard doesn't information section on a plard doesn't have to be a wall mount but again it have to be a wall mount but again it have to be a wall mount but again it shouldn't be like a postcard size shouldn't be like a postcard size shouldn't be like a postcard size something that says hey you know we um something that says hey you know we um something that says hey you know we um upon stepping on our premises uh we uh upon stepping on our premises uh we uh upon stepping on our premises uh we uh you have Grant you're granting us um you have Grant you're granting us um you have Grant you're granting us um permission to take photos and videos of permission to take photos and videos of permission to take photos and videos of you and to use for promotional purposes you and to use for promotional purposes you and to use for promotional purposes down the road and so it's a publicly down the road and so it's a publicly down the road and so it's a publicly space it's a public shared space space it's a public shared space space it's a public shared space from what I'm aware of Legally that from what I'm aware of Legally that from what I'm aware of Legally that covers your butt but it's also telling covers your butt but it's also telling covers your butt but it's also telling people that as well and then you could people that as well and then you could people that as well and then you could always hearen back to that in terms of always hearen back to that in terms of always hearen back to that in terms of someone says hey I I never gave

someone says hey I I never gave someone says hey I I never gave permission I never signed my kid in like permission I never signed my kid in like permission I never signed my kid in like hey everybody comes on we have this sign hey everybody comes on we have this sign hey everybody comes on we have this sign here that recognizes that that that's here that recognizes that that that's here that recognizes that that that's attention for you uh we're still going attention for you uh we're still going attention for you uh we're still going to Showcase what God is doing here down to Showcase what God is doing here down to Showcase what God is doing here down the road we're not going to stop that the road we're not going to stop that the road we're not going to stop that but that's part of our standard but that's part of our standard but that's part of our standard here well Ben we we gotta land this here well Ben we we gotta land this here well Ben we we gotta land this playing this has playing this has playing this has been a fantastic topic because every been a fantastic topic because every been a fantastic topic because every every church has this going on in their every church has this going on in their every church has this going on in their church so they there's some advice and church so they there's some advice and church so they there's some advice and wisdom in this podcast today you wrote a wisdom in this podcast today you wrote a wisdom in this podcast today you wrote a few blogs on this so we'll add those to few blogs on this so we'll add those to few blogs on this so we'll add those to the show notes so that people that want the show notes so that people that want the show notes so that people that want to maybe go deeper um Can can dive into to maybe go deeper um Can can dive into to maybe go deeper um Can can dive into those blogs that you put time and effort those blogs that you put time and effort those blogs that you put time and effort into so so thanks for for sharing those into so so thanks for for sharing those into so so thanks for for sharing those if anybody's got some questions they'd if anybody's got some questions they'd if anybody's got some questions they'd like to just run by you how what's the like to just run by you how what's the like to just run by you how what's the best way to get a hold of you yeah you best way to get a hold of you yeah you best way to get a hold of you yeah you go to Ben staple.com all my contact info go to Ben staple.com all my contact info go to Ben staple.com all my contact info is there and you can access some of the is there and you can access some of the is there and you can access some of the content there and uh that's the best way content there and uh that's the best way content there and uh that's the best way to reach out to me and figure out what to reach out to me and figure out what to reach out to me and figure out what God is doing in my life and how I could God is doing in my life and how I could God is doing in my life and how I could possibly help what he's doing in your possibly help what he's doing in your possibly help what he's doing in your life as well yeah yeah Ben thanks so life as well yeah yeah Ben thanks so life as well yeah yeah Ben thanks so much uh it's been too long since we have much uh it's been too long since we have much uh it's been too long since we have had you on the show before which um you had you on the show before which um you had you on the show before which um you know I I mentioned earlier that will know I I mentioned earlier that will know I I mentioned earlier that will link to your previous episode uh in our link to your previous episode uh in our link to your previous episode uh in our in our show notes um I've shared that in our show notes um I've shared that in our show notes um I've shared that episode with lots of people I think we episode with lots of people I think we episode with lots of people I think we were talking about preparing for Easter were talking about preparing for Easter were talking about preparing for Easter planning for Easter at the time that planning for Easter at the time that planning for Easter at the time that this episode comes out people ought to this episode comes out people ought to this episode comes out people ought to be planning for Christmas and all of the be planning for Christmas and all of the be planning for Christmas and all of the same rules apply therefore uh go listen same rules apply therefore uh go listen same rules apply therefore uh go listen to that episode as well and get yourself to that episode as well and get yourself to that episode as well and get yourself ready for Christmas uh for those of you ready for Christmas uh for those of you ready for Christmas uh for those of you who have made it all the way here to the

who have made it all the way here to the who have made it all the way here to the end of this episode we appreciate you end of this episode we appreciate you end of this episode we appreciate you sticking with us uh if you haven't yet sticking with us uh if you haven't yet sticking with us uh if you haven't yet subscribed wherever you're listening to subscribed wherever you're listening to subscribed wherever you're listening to your favorite podcasts make sure that your favorite podcasts make sure that your favorite podcasts make sure that you do that and if you're watching on you do that and if you're watching on you do that and if you're watching on our YouTube channel we' love to engage our YouTube channel we' love to engage our YouTube channel we' love to engage with you there uh so leave us a comment with you there uh so leave us a comment with you there uh so leave us a comment and uh we would just love to have some and uh we would just love to have some and uh we would just love to have some dialogue about this topic or whatever dialogue about this topic or whatever dialogue about this topic or whatever else is uh on your mind thanks again Ben else is uh on your mind thanks again Ben else is uh on your mind thanks again Ben we appreciate you brother thanks for we appreciate you brother thanks for we appreciate you brother thanks for having me guys