Improving Your Internal Church Communications | Jason Hamrock & Bart Blair

[Music] [Music] if you are the communication director of if you are the communication director of if you are the communication director of a church of like 10 000 people a church of like 10 000 people a church of like 10 000 people obviously you need to be really obviously you need to be really obviously you need to be really effective in communicating that but effective in communicating that but effective in communicating that but we're talking more about the church of a we're talking more about the church of a we're talking more about the church of a few hundred we just assume that people few hundred we just assume that people few hundred we just assume that people will will know will will know will will know when this event is and how to sign up when this event is and how to sign up when this event is and how to sign up for that and for that and for that and that type of thing so do not assume that type of thing so do not assume that type of thing so do not assume um that people are just gonna um that people are just gonna um that people are just gonna get this through the holy spirit right get this through the holy spirit right get this through the holy spirit right you have to actually communicate it to you have to actually communicate it to you have to actually communicate it to them them them hey this is the missional marketing hey this is the missional marketing hey this is the missional marketing podcast i'm bart blair joined by jason podcast i'm bart blair joined by jason podcast i'm bart blair joined by jason hamrock thanks so much for tuning in hamrock thanks so much for tuning in hamrock thanks so much for tuning in today uh we know that you have a choice today uh we know that you have a choice today uh we know that you have a choice about how you use your time and with a about how you use your time and with a about how you use your time and with a bazillion podcasts that you could bazillion podcasts that you could bazillion podcasts that you could possibly listen to possibly listen to possibly listen to um well we just appreciate you listening um well we just appreciate you listening um well we just appreciate you listening to ours jason are you well today i am to ours jason are you well today i am to ours jason are you well today i am doing great bart i'm excited about our doing great bart i'm excited about our doing great bart i'm excited about our topic today yeah we've got a great topic topic today yeah we've got a great topic topic today yeah we've got a great topic for you today uh we don't have a guest for you today uh we don't have a guest for you today uh we don't have a guest we we are the guests we're the special we we are the guests we're the special we we are the guests we're the special guests on this episode episode whatever guests on this episode episode whatever guests on this episode episode whatever of season two i'm not sure what episode of season two i'm not sure what episode of season two i'm not sure what episode number it is but we're we're in season number it is but we're we're in season number it is but we're we're in season two we're getting close to wrapping up two we're getting close to wrapping up two we're getting close to wrapping up season two and um i just had this idea a season two and um i just had this idea a season two and um i just had this idea a few weeks ago uh based on some few weeks ago uh based on some few weeks ago uh based on some conversations that i've been having with conversations that i've been having with conversations that i've been having with some church communications professionals some church communications professionals some church communications professionals some people that we get to work with um some people that we get to work with um some people that we get to work with um on a pain point a pain point related to on a pain point a pain point related to on a pain point a pain point related to internal church communications you know internal church communications you know internal church communications you know jason you and i default probably to ring jason you and i default probably to ring jason you and i default probably to ring two and ring three as we define our two and ring three as we define our two and ring three as we define our three different rings ring one your three different rings ring one your three different rings ring one your people ring two people in your community people ring two people in your community people ring two people in your community looking for a church ring three people

looking for a church ring three people looking for a church ring three people in your community who aren't looking for in your community who aren't looking for in your community who aren't looking for a church but need a church a church but need a church a church but need a church but this ring one we don't spend a lot but this ring one we don't spend a lot but this ring one we don't spend a lot of time talking about ring one so that's of time talking about ring one so that's of time talking about ring one so that's what we're going to do today we're going what we're going to do today we're going what we're going to do today we're going to talk about how you can improve your to talk about how you can improve your to talk about how you can improve your internal church communications are you internal church communications are you internal church communications are you ready to tackle this conversation let's ready to tackle this conversation let's ready to tackle this conversation let's do it i'm excited okay all right so i'm do it i'm excited okay all right so i'm do it i'm excited okay all right so i'm going to start by defining using my going to start by defining using my going to start by defining using my definition of communications and then definition of communications and then definition of communications and then i'm going to jump in and ask you uh to i'm going to jump in and ask you uh to i'm going to jump in and ask you uh to clarify a few things for us okay clarify a few things for us okay clarify a few things for us okay the way that i define communications is the way that i define communications is the way that i define communications is making sure that people know what making sure that people know what making sure that people know what they're supposed to know and when they're supposed to know and when they're supposed to know and when they're supposed to know it or at least they're supposed to know it or at least they're supposed to know it or at least that's the objective of communications that's the objective of communications that's the objective of communications right making sure that people know what right making sure that people know what right making sure that people know what they're supposed to know they're supposed to know they're supposed to know and when they're supposed to know it and and when they're supposed to know it and and when they're supposed to know it and so a church communications professional so a church communications professional so a church communications professional their responsibility is to discern what their responsibility is to discern what their responsibility is to discern what people need to know people need to know people need to know uh when they're supposed to know it and uh when they're supposed to know it and uh when they're supposed to know it and then on which platforms to distribute then on which platforms to distribute then on which platforms to distribute that content so we're gonna break down a that content so we're gonna break down a that content so we're gonna break down a few of those uh different topics today few of those uh different topics today few of those uh different topics today but before we start getting into more of but before we start getting into more of but before we start getting into more of the the tactical aspects of that the the tactical aspects of that the the tactical aspects of that communication um communication um communication um jason there are a lot of things that jason there are a lot of things that jason there are a lot of things that prevent us from having good and prevent us from having good and prevent us from having good and effective communications in our churches effective communications in our churches effective communications in our churches i just label these as enemies of i just label these as enemies of i just label these as enemies of effective communication effective communication effective communication why don't you go through some of the why don't you go through some of the why don't you go through some of the things that you think would be enemies things that you think would be enemies things that you think would be enemies of effective communication in churches of effective communication in churches of effective communication in churches enemies of effective communication enemies of effective communication enemies of effective communication and churches yeah so you just said what and churches yeah so you just said what and churches yeah so you just said what what people need to know what people need to know what people need to know and when they need to know it what do and when they need to know it what do and when they need to know it what do they need to know when they need to know

they need to know when they need to know they need to know when they need to know it and what is it we're talking about it and what is it we're talking about it and what is it we're talking about things that your church is wanting to things that your church is wanting to things that your church is wanting to communicate based on the strategies that communicate based on the strategies that communicate based on the strategies that your church is wanting to achieve right your church is wanting to achieve right your church is wanting to achieve right so let's just start there and i think so let's just start there and i think so let's just start there and i think sometimes there's yeah there's a there's sometimes there's yeah there's a there's sometimes there's yeah there's a there's a handful of these that i that kind of a handful of these that i that kind of a handful of these that i that kind of go against our thinking number one is go against our thinking number one is go against our thinking number one is assumptions assumptions assumptions assuming people actually know assuming people actually know assuming people actually know when things are supposed to be happening when things are supposed to be happening when things are supposed to be happening you can't assume it it and we're talking you can't assume it it and we're talking you can't assume it it and we're talking obviously it's it's uh people don't obviously it's it's uh people don't obviously it's it's uh people don't assume if you if you are the assume if you if you are the assume if you if you are the communication director of a church of communication director of a church of communication director of a church of like 10 000 people like 10 000 people like 10 000 people obviously you need to be really obviously you need to be really obviously you need to be really effective in communicating that but effective in communicating that but effective in communicating that but we're talking more about the church of a we're talking more about the church of a we're talking more about the church of a few hundred we just assume that people few hundred we just assume that people few hundred we just assume that people will will know will will know will will know when this event is and how to sign up when this event is and how to sign up when this event is and how to sign up for that and for that and for that and that type of thing so do not assume that type of thing so do not assume that type of thing so do not assume that people are just gonna that people are just gonna that people are just gonna get this through the holy spirit right get this through the holy spirit right get this through the holy spirit right you have to actually communicate it to you have to actually communicate it to you have to actually communicate it to them that's the first one um i would say them that's the first one um i would say them that's the first one um i would say another thing that's kind of that goes another thing that's kind of that goes another thing that's kind of that goes against us is maybe competing agendas against us is maybe competing agendas against us is maybe competing agendas um and what i mean by that is often first of all you should take your often first of all you should take your your cues from your lead pastor your cues from your lead pastor your cues from your lead pastor right that lead pastor is saying this is right that lead pastor is saying this is right that lead pastor is saying this is our strategy our strategy our strategy the the the the the the rub on that is and this is what i had to rub on that is and this is what i had to rub on that is and this is what i had to deal with is i had to have a pecking deal with is i had to have a pecking deal with is i had to have a pecking order of what was the most important order of what was the most important order of what was the most important thing to communicate thing to communicate thing to communicate to who and when and why and that pecking to who and when and why and that pecking to who and when and why and that pecking order always went what lead pastor what order always went what lead pastor what order always went what lead pastor what he wanted what my lead pastor wanted yep he wanted what my lead pastor wanted yep he wanted what my lead pastor wanted yep he's the top of the heap he's the top of the heap he's the top of the heap next to that i always just chose the

next to that i always just chose the next to that i always just chose the weekend weekend weekend services because that gathering is services because that gathering is services because that gathering is pretty important that we communicate to pretty important that we communicate to pretty important that we communicate to those weekend services because that's those weekend services because that's those weekend services because that's where things happen it's our biggest where things happen it's our biggest where things happen it's our biggest fundraiser let's fundraiser let's fundraiser let's you know it's it's how people what you know it's it's how people what you know it's it's how people what people give but it's also our best way people give but it's also our best way people give but it's also our best way that we're leading people to jesus and that we're leading people to jesus and that we're leading people to jesus and discipling them it's one of the it's one discipling them it's one of the it's one discipling them it's one of the it's one of the core ones right then below that of the core ones right then below that of the core ones right then below that you got all the ministries and all the you got all the ministries and all the you got all the ministries and all the events the what we're talking about the events the what we're talking about the events the what we're talking about the competing thing is when when ministries competing thing is when when ministries competing thing is when when ministries are kind of competing with each other are kind of competing with each other are kind of competing with each other right and they don't realize right and they don't realize right and they don't realize we have we have we have you know these things going on and you know these things going on and you know these things going on and you're wanting to do this i'll give you you're wanting to do this i'll give you you're wanting to do this i'll give you a great example small groups small group a great example small groups small group a great example small groups small group pastors typically have a focus on trying pastors typically have a focus on trying pastors typically have a focus on trying to make sure their small group leaders to make sure their small group leaders to make sure their small group leaders are doing what they're wanting to do but are doing what they're wanting to do but are doing what they're wanting to do but then here comes then here comes then here comes oh i don't know oh i don't know oh i don't know maybe it's children's ministries it's maybe it's children's ministries it's maybe it's children's ministries it's going to have a big kind of an event and going to have a big kind of an event and going to have a big kind of an event and they want to connect with the small they want to connect with the small they want to connect with the small group leaders hey we want to communicate group leaders hey we want to communicate group leaders hey we want to communicate to that small group leader about our to that small group leader about our to that small group leader about our event so they can share with their small event so they can share with their small event so they can share with their small groups groups groups competition because they're going to competition because they're going to competition because they're going to want to be speaking into hey we want to want to be speaking into hey we want to want to be speaking into hey we want to connect with your small group leaders connect with your small group leaders connect with your small group leaders and the smart group pastor is going and the smart group pastor is going and the smart group pastor is going no that's no that's no that's i have a i have focus on them i don't i have a i have focus on them i don't i have a i have focus on them i don't want them focusing their attention over want them focusing their attention over want them focusing their attention over here there's some miscon there's some here there's some miscon there's some here there's some miscon there's some misalignment in that right so you got to misalignment in that right so you got to misalignment in that right so you got to make sure you're really clear and you make sure you're really clear and you make sure you're really clear and you have a plan and you're cohesive in that have a plan and you're cohesive in that have a plan and you're cohesive in that that's a probably competing let me just that's a probably competing let me just that's a probably competing let me just comment let me just comment on that one comment let me just comment on that one comment let me just comment on that one note and then you can move on to the note and then you can move on to the note and then you can move on to the next one um next one um next one um it is as a church communications it is as a church communications it is as a church communications professional it can sometimes be very professional it can sometimes be very professional it can sometimes be very very frustrating when every ministry

very frustrating when every ministry very frustrating when every ministry director every ministry leader every director every ministry leader every director every ministry leader every pastor in every department is vying for pastor in every department is vying for pastor in every department is vying for um headline space they want the um headline space they want the um headline space they want the announcement they want the lead line announcement they want the lead line announcement they want the lead line they want more social media content it they want more social media content it they want more social media content it can be frustrating but it's actually a can be frustrating but it's actually a can be frustrating but it's actually a good thing you want your ministry good thing you want your ministry good thing you want your ministry leaders your pastors of all your leaders your pastors of all your leaders your pastors of all your different uh areas of ministry you want different uh areas of ministry you want different uh areas of ministry you want them to be so passionate and so in love them to be so passionate and so in love them to be so passionate and so in love with what they're doing that they think with what they're doing that they think with what they're doing that they think it is the most important ministry in the it is the most important ministry in the it is the most important ministry in the church which is why you need to have church which is why you need to have church which is why you need to have systems and structures in place that systems and structures in place that systems and structures in place that make sure that ministries are aligned make sure that ministries are aligned make sure that ministries are aligned and that that agendas are cooperative and that that agendas are cooperative and that that agendas are cooperative and not competing and so that's just one and not competing and so that's just one and not competing and so that's just one of the little i just wanted to put a of the little i just wanted to put a of the little i just wanted to put a little uh exclamation point on that as little uh exclamation point on that as little uh exclamation point on that as you wrap up that one well that leads me you wrap up that one well that leads me you wrap up that one well that leads me so when you do have like you know every so when you do have like you know every so when you do have like you know every ministry once that ministry once that ministry once that you know that time it's it's it's really you know that time it's it's it's really you know that time it's it's it's really making sure that i think there's i think making sure that i think there's i think making sure that i think there's i think there's another enemy goes against us is there's another enemy goes against us is there's another enemy goes against us is that using the wrong channels to that using the wrong channels to that using the wrong channels to communicate whatever that message might communicate whatever that message might communicate whatever that message might be for that ministry or for that lead be for that ministry or for that lead be for that ministry or for that lead pastor or whatever it all church event pastor or whatever it all church event pastor or whatever it all church event whatever you have to consider the whatever you have to consider the whatever you have to consider the channels that you're using to channels that you're using to channels that you're using to communicate and i think sometimes you communicate and i think sometimes you communicate and i think sometimes you know we go oh let's just get it out know we go oh let's just get it out know we go oh let's just get it out there and everywhere well if you do that there and everywhere well if you do that there and everywhere well if you do that now you got a whole bunch of noise now you got a whole bunch of noise now you got a whole bunch of noise instead of a clearly defined we want you instead of a clearly defined we want you instead of a clearly defined we want you to do this because it goes with the to do this because it goes with the to do this because it goes with the strategy and whatever that might be we strategy and whatever that might be we strategy and whatever that might be we can break that down but i think can break that down but i think can break that down but i think sometimes we we get lost and sometimes we we get lost and sometimes we we get lost and we'll use all of our all of our tools in we'll use all of our all of our tools in we'll use all of our all of our tools in the tool bag for this one event but if the tool bag for this one event but if the tool bag for this one event but if you do that for every single event you do that for every single event you do that for every single event you've just kind of created more noise you've just kind of created more noise you've just kind of created more noise and not necessarily a

and not necessarily a and not necessarily a kind of a cohesive strategy for how kind of a cohesive strategy for how kind of a cohesive strategy for how you're going to reach the people you you're going to reach the people you you're going to reach the people you want to reach when you're supposed to want to reach when you're supposed to want to reach when you're supposed to reach them reach them reach them and then that kind of leads into you and then that kind of leads into you and then that kind of leads into you know hitting the wrong people at the know hitting the wrong people at the know hitting the wrong people at the wrong time right wrong time right wrong time right um i i just i was always kind of a um i i just i was always kind of a um i i just i was always kind of a oh gosh i had to be that person that oh gosh i had to be that person that oh gosh i had to be that person that would stand up and say you're not you're would stand up and say you're not you're would stand up and say you're not you're not getting at this time right so i not getting at this time right so i not getting at this time right so i would get ministries that come to me would get ministries that come to me would get ministries that come to me here we are like we're in may hey we here we are like we're in may hey we here we are like we're in may hey we have an event coming up this have an event coming up this have an event coming up this you know in the fall we want to start you know in the fall we want to start you know in the fall we want to start planting the seeds to planting the seeds to planting the seeds to no we're not going to start planting the no we're not going to start planting the no we're not going to start planting the seeds it doesn't make sense because seeds it doesn't make sense because seeds it doesn't make sense because you're wanting to plant seeds but you you're wanting to plant seeds but you you're wanting to plant seeds but you don't realize there's like three other don't realize there's like three other don't realize there's like three other ministries that stuff going on in the ministries that stuff going on in the ministries that stuff going on in the next few weeks we need to communicate next few weeks we need to communicate next few weeks we need to communicate that that that right not your thing that's coming up so right not your thing that's coming up so right not your thing that's coming up so timing is really important and kind of timing is really important and kind of timing is really important and kind of everything to this and then how you're everything to this and then how you're everything to this and then how you're connecting with with your people connecting with with your people connecting with with your people throughout the week not just on sunday throughout the week not just on sunday throughout the week not just on sunday morning but you got six other days that morning but you got six other days that morning but you got six other days that you can use different channels to you can use different channels to you can use different channels to communicate with them so making sure can communicate with them so making sure can communicate with them so making sure can an enemy of ours can be an enemy of ours can be an enemy of ours can be let's just throw it out there without let's just throw it out there without let's just throw it out there without thinking thinking thinking when we should actually communicate when we should actually communicate when we should actually communicate something to somebody something to somebody something to somebody yeah so let me let me just repeat those yeah so let me let me just repeat those yeah so let me let me just repeat those four points that things that are four points that things that are four points that things that are enemies of effective communication one enemies of effective communication one enemies of effective communication one you highlighted is assumptions assuming you highlighted is assumptions assuming you highlighted is assumptions assuming that people know what's happening or that people know what's happening or that people know what's happening or they they assuming that they know where they they assuming that they know where they they assuming that they know where to get the information uh competing to get the information uh competing to get the information uh competing agendas uh whether it's different agendas uh whether it's different agendas uh whether it's different ministries different ministry leaders ministries different ministry leaders ministries different ministry leaders what have you all kind of fighting for what have you all kind of fighting for what have you all kind of fighting for the same time but not all pushing the the same time but not all pushing the the same time but not all pushing the same rock up the same hill the third same rock up the same hill the third same rock up the same hill the third wrong channels of communication or all wrong channels of communication or all wrong channels of communication or all the channels of communication and you the channels of communication and you the channels of communication and you use the word noise several times

use the word noise several times use the word noise several times and to quote the great donald miller and to quote the great donald miller and to quote the great donald miller noise is the enemy noise is the enemy we noise is the enemy noise is the enemy we noise is the enemy noise is the enemy we really need to make sure that we're really need to make sure that we're really need to make sure that we're communicating in a way that um we are communicating in a way that um we are communicating in a way that um we are reducing noise so that people can hear reducing noise so that people can hear reducing noise so that people can hear read see exactly what we want them to read see exactly what we want them to read see exactly what we want them to hear read and see and the fourth one the hear read and see and the fourth one the hear read and see and the fourth one the wrong people at the wrong time timing is wrong people at the wrong time timing is wrong people at the wrong time timing is everything we're going to talk a little everything we're going to talk a little everything we're going to talk a little bit about timing here in just a moment bit about timing here in just a moment bit about timing here in just a moment but if i can summarize that but if i can summarize that but if i can summarize that i think it's dave ramsey somebody who i think it's dave ramsey somebody who i think it's dave ramsey somebody who says to be unclear is to be unkind and says to be unclear is to be unkind and says to be unclear is to be unkind and so clarity in communication is really so clarity in communication is really so clarity in communication is really really important to be unclear is to be really important to be unclear is to be really important to be unclear is to be unkind so let's focus on clarity now let unkind so let's focus on clarity now let unkind so let's focus on clarity now let me let me get you to think back way way me let me get you to think back way way me let me get you to think back way way way back in the days before the way back in the days before the way back in the days before the interwebs no i'm serious i'm kidding it interwebs no i'm serious i'm kidding it interwebs no i'm serious i'm kidding it wasn't it wasn't that long ago um but wasn't it wasn't that long ago um but wasn't it wasn't that long ago um but it's been a number of years uh but you it's been a number of years uh but you it's been a number of years uh but you did serve in did serve in did serve in a church as a communications director a church as a communications director a church as a communications director for for for decades dozen years somewhere in that in decades dozen years somewhere in that in decades dozen years somewhere in that in that neighborhood during that neighborhood during that neighborhood during during the prime of your life during the prime of your life during the prime of your life and um your church at the time that you and um your church at the time that you and um your church at the time that you were serving that church it was growing were serving that church it was growing were serving that church it was growing quite rapidly it was a very effective quite rapidly it was a very effective quite rapidly it was a very effective church reaching a lot of people growing church reaching a lot of people growing church reaching a lot of people growing very rapidly and so you were building a very rapidly and so you were building a very rapidly and so you were building a department at the same time that the department at the same time that the department at the same time that the church was growing um what were some of church was growing um what were some of church was growing um what were some of the tactics that you the tactics that you the tactics that you used maybe some lessons that you learned used maybe some lessons that you learned used maybe some lessons that you learned maybe some things that you implemented maybe some things that you implemented maybe some things that you implemented to make sure that communication was to make sure that communication was to make sure that communication was clear and that no assumptions were made clear and that no assumptions were made clear and that no assumptions were made as you were executing your job as a

as you were executing your job as a as you were executing your job as a communications director communications director communications director that's a great question i i had to that's a great question i i had to that's a great question i i had to i had to really we were growing so fast i had to really we were growing so fast i had to really we were growing so fast so we gotta we had our our base our core so we gotta we had our our base our core so we gotta we had our our base our core people which i didn't have to work very people which i didn't have to work very people which i didn't have to work very hard to communicate to them because they hard to communicate to them because they hard to communicate to them because they and i and i intentionally because i knew and i and i intentionally because i knew and i and i intentionally because i knew they're going to search to find what they're going to search to find what they're going to search to find what they're looking for i had to make it they're looking for i had to make it they're looking for i had to make it available available available but it wasn't my my target audience but it wasn't my my target audience but it wasn't my my target audience wasn't our people if that makes sense wasn't our people if that makes sense wasn't our people if that makes sense they already knew they already bought in they already knew they already bought in they already knew they already bought in they're already following there are you they're already following there are you they're already following there are you know know know now i just need to make sure they had now i just need to make sure they had now i just need to make sure they had what they needed and they may have to what they needed and they may have to what they needed and they may have to click a few times to get to what they click a few times to get to what they click a few times to get to what they needed or i might um i might not needed or i might um i might not needed or i might um i might not communicate as frequently as something communicate as frequently as something communicate as frequently as something else what i tried to focus on were else what i tried to focus on were else what i tried to focus on were people that were brand new they needed people that were brand new they needed people that were brand new they needed to know to know to know you know what's this they didn't they you know what's this they didn't they you know what's this they didn't they weren't asking this question but what's weren't asking this question but what's weren't asking this question but what's the strategy around here like i what you the strategy around here like i what you the strategy around here like i what you know what do i do should i serve should know what do i do should i serve should know what do i do should i serve should i get a small group should i just come i get a small group should i just come i get a small group should i just come to a weekend should i you know what to a weekend should i you know what to a weekend should i you know what should i do and the answer is yes should i do and the answer is yes should i do and the answer is yes but the but we had to have some kind of but the but we had to have some kind of but the but we had to have some kind of order of of sequence with that so we order of of sequence with that so we order of of sequence with that so we used all the different mediums it didn't used all the different mediums it didn't used all the different mediums it didn't matter what the mediums were you're matter what the mediums were you're matter what the mediums were you're using right if it's if it's traditional using right if it's if it's traditional using right if it's if it's traditional or it's digital or it's digital or it's digital making sure that you are clear to the making sure that you are clear to the making sure that you are clear to the people who are first visiting your people who are first visiting your people who are first visiting your church to keep that front door wide open church to keep that front door wide open church to keep that front door wide open and making sure that the tools we use and making sure that the tools we use and making sure that the tools we use were effective in their communication were effective in their communication were effective in their communication was really really important but it was really really important but it was really really important but it wasn't me studying that wasn't me studying that wasn't me studying that it was our leadership

it was our leadership it was our leadership our leadership was clearly defining what our leadership was clearly defining what our leadership was clearly defining what what what the strategy was for us to to what what the strategy was for us to to what what the strategy was for us to to follow follow follow and so all i needed to know was and so all i needed to know was and so all i needed to know was what what's important around here and what what's important around here and what what's important around here and when that was communicated to me this is when that was communicated to me this is when that was communicated to me this is what's important around here it made my what's important around here it made my what's important around here it made my job a whole lot easier because it wasn't job a whole lot easier because it wasn't job a whole lot easier because it wasn't just me that was falling in love with just me that was falling in love with just me that was falling in love with the strategies it was all the other the strategies it was all the other the strategies it was all the other ministries that had to fall under the ministries that had to fall under the ministries that had to fall under the same strategies same strategies same strategies so we really for a while it was a lot of so we really for a while it was a lot of so we really for a while it was a lot of competition we were button heads once we competition we were button heads once we competition we were button heads once we figured out that we needed clarity on figured out that we needed clarity on figured out that we needed clarity on from the leadership down of this is what from the leadership down of this is what from the leadership down of this is what we're about as a church it made we're about as a church it made we're about as a church it made building those strategies and those building those strategies and those building those strategies and those communication channels a lot more communication channels a lot more communication channels a lot more effective a lot easier and that's that's effective a lot easier and that's that's effective a lot easier and that's that's what we what we went through i mean it what we what we went through i mean it what we what we went through i mean it wasn't like we we arrived there wasn't like we we arrived there wasn't like we we arrived there overnight we overnight we overnight we we were growing fast because we had a we were growing fast because we had a we were growing fast because we had a really really solid pastor who was really really solid pastor who was really really solid pastor who was amazing at preaching we had a phenomenal amazing at preaching we had a phenomenal amazing at preaching we had a phenomenal worship band and we had great children's worship band and we had great children's worship band and we had great children's ministries and we had nice clean ministries and we had nice clean ministries and we had nice clean facilities we had friendly welcome facilities we had friendly welcome facilities we had friendly welcome people that were our greeters were people that were our greeters were people that were our greeters were really friendly if you got to some of really friendly if you got to some of really friendly if you got to some of those ingredients those ingredients those ingredients you're going to grow i mean it's just you're going to grow i mean it's just you're going to grow i mean it's just you're gonna get more people to come to you're gonna get more people to come to you're gonna get more people to come to your church that's what happened your church that's what happened your church that's what happened that that wasn't anything that the that that wasn't anything that the that that wasn't anything that the communications team did communications team did communications team did but what we wanted to do is when people but what we wanted to do is when people but what we wanted to do is when people would come in we wanted to would come in we wanted to would come in we wanted to communicate to them what we felt like communicate to them what we felt like communicate to them what we felt like this is this is this is this is the strat this is how you get this is the strat this is how you get this is the strat this is how you get plugged in around here because we got plugged in around here because we got plugged in around here because we got that from the leadership down that from the leadership down that from the leadership down and so i think if if you're not in that and so i think if if you're not in that and so i think if if you're not in that space and you're not exactly crystal

space and you're not exactly crystal space and you're not exactly crystal clear on what that is clear on what that is clear on what that is that could be a little bit of a problem that could be a little bit of a problem that could be a little bit of a problem yeah that's that's really interesting yeah that's that's really interesting yeah that's that's really interesting now you you you use the word strategy now you you you use the word strategy now you you you use the word strategy there i don't know about 28 times and there i don't know about 28 times and there i don't know about 28 times and you're a very strategic thinker and i you're a very strategic thinker and i you're a very strategic thinker and i think that i i lean towards that think that i i lean towards that think that i i lean towards that direction as well we we had a direction as well we we had a direction as well we we had a call with our team of coaches a few call with our team of coaches a few call with our team of coaches a few weeks ago and one of our team members weeks ago and one of our team members weeks ago and one of our team members used this description and i thought it used this description and i thought it used this description and i thought it was gold and i i wanted to wanted to was gold and i i wanted to wanted to was gold and i i wanted to wanted to share it he he used the different he share it he he used the different he share it he he used the different he tried to describe the difference between tried to describe the difference between tried to describe the difference between a church that has a strategic plan a church that has a strategic plan a church that has a strategic plan versus a church that has a buffet model versus a church that has a buffet model versus a church that has a buffet model of ministry right and i just absolutely of ministry right and i just absolutely of ministry right and i just absolutely love that robert shout out to robert love that robert shout out to robert love that robert shout out to robert rizzo on our team who i don't know if he rizzo on our team who i don't know if he rizzo on our team who i don't know if he coined that but that was the language coined that but that was the language coined that but that was the language that he was using and i got a really big that he was using and i got a really big that he was using and i got a really big kick out of that because we do see a lot kick out of that because we do see a lot kick out of that because we do see a lot of churches with buffet-style ministries of churches with buffet-style ministries of churches with buffet-style ministries we've got a whole lot of stuff going on we've got a whole lot of stuff going on we've got a whole lot of stuff going on but it's not all but it's not all but it's not all it's it's not all connected and it's not it's it's not all connected and it's not it's it's not all connected and it's not all moving everyone towards the same end all moving everyone towards the same end all moving everyone towards the same end goal or the same objective yeah my goal or the same objective yeah my goal or the same objective yeah my pastor and you've heard this seen this pastor and you've heard this seen this pastor and you've heard this seen this illustration before we did a thing where illustration before we did a thing where illustration before we did a thing where we set a a a kitchen table on stage and we set a a a kitchen table on stage and we set a a a kitchen table on stage and we had different chairs right we had we had different chairs right we had we had different chairs right we had like a high chair for a baby and then we like a high chair for a baby and then we like a high chair for a baby and then we went you know then you had by the time went you know then you had by the time went you know then you had by the time you got around you had an adult chair you got around you had an adult chair you got around you had an adult chair and he explained that the the the and he explained that the the the and he explained that the the the christian faith is christian faith is christian faith is is not the church's responsibility isn't is not the church's responsibility isn't is not the church's responsibility isn't to feed you the church's responsibility to feed you the church's responsibility to feed you the church's responsibility is to is to is to help you feed yourself help you feed yourself help you feed yourself and why why i say that is sometimes as

and why why i say that is sometimes as and why why i say that is sometimes as churches we if we don't have that here churches we if we don't have that here churches we if we don't have that here it is again that strategy for how are we it is again that strategy for how are we it is again that strategy for how are we discipling people and how are we help discipling people and how are we help discipling people and how are we help first of all how are we helping people first of all how are we helping people first of all how are we helping people understand they're welcome invited here understand they're welcome invited here understand they're welcome invited here and to get the help they're looking for and to get the help they're looking for and to get the help they're looking for and eventually some at some point and eventually some at some point and eventually some at some point they have to deal with the cross they have to deal with the cross they have to deal with the cross right once they make that decision and right once they make that decision and right once they make that decision and they say yes to jesus they say yes to jesus they say yes to jesus now there's a path okay if you have a now there's a path okay if you have a now there's a path okay if you have a bunch of bunch of doors to choose maybe bunch of bunch of doors to choose maybe bunch of bunch of doors to choose maybe that's okay that's okay that's okay but behind that door needs to be but behind that door needs to be but behind that door needs to be a strategy for how you help your your a strategy for how you help your your a strategy for how you help your your people people people become fully followed you know fully become fully followed you know fully become fully followed you know fully developed followers of jesus and that's developed followers of jesus and that's developed followers of jesus and that's a that's a a that's a a that's a that's not a destination that's a that's not a destination that's a that's not a destination that's a journey journey journey and so i think as a communication and so i think as a communication and so i think as a communication director my job was to try and director my job was to try and director my job was to try and figure out how to articulate that figure out how to articulate that figure out how to articulate that right not just we're going to promote right not just we're going to promote right not just we're going to promote this event promote that event yeah this event promote that event yeah this event promote that event yeah that's part of it where you use this that's part of it where you use this that's part of it where you use this channel that channel that channel but channel that channel that channel but channel that channel that channel but go deeper than that and and that's go deeper than that and and that's go deeper than that and and that's that's the goal and that's the role of a that's the goal and that's the role of a that's the goal and that's the role of a communication director is communication director is communication director is again lining through with what our again lining through with what our again lining through with what our mission is what our strategy is and how mission is what our strategy is and how mission is what our strategy is and how we how do we do that so we how do we do that so we how do we do that so i know that helps but i do i appreciate i know that helps but i do i appreciate i know that helps but i do i appreciate robert's robert's robert's yeah we just have this like buffet style yeah we just have this like buffet style yeah we just have this like buffet style there's 30 things to choose just choose there's 30 things to choose just choose there's 30 things to choose just choose one and pick a door and go one and pick a door and go one and pick a door and go yeah i always use that you know yeah i always use that you know yeah i always use that you know cheesecake cafe no offense to the people cheesecake cafe no offense to the people cheesecake cafe no offense to the people at cheesecake cafe but if you ever at cheesecake cafe but if you ever at cheesecake cafe but if you ever cheesecake factory cheesecake factory cheesecake factory cheesecake factory cheesecake factory cheesecake factory yeah you go to cheesecake factory and yeah you go to cheesecake factory and yeah you go to cheesecake factory and the menu is so dense and so thick and the menu is so dense and so thick and the menu is so dense and so thick and there are some people that absolutely there are some people that absolutely there are some people that absolutely love it and there are others of us that

love it and there are others of us that love it and there are others of us that you know you and i went to a cheesecake you know you and i went to a cheesecake you know you and i went to a cheesecake factory one time we were out in factory one time we were out in factory one time we were out in california with one of our church california with one of our church california with one of our church leaders and and i was like oh it's just leaders and and i was like oh it's just leaders and and i was like oh it's just paralyzing to me there's so many paralyzing to me there's so many paralyzing to me there's so many different options and this is this is different options and this is this is different options and this is this is not unique to me i didn't coin this not unique to me i didn't coin this not unique to me i didn't coin this phrase some church leader some book that phrase some church leader some book that phrase some church leader some book that i read or some podcast that i listened i read or some podcast that i listened i read or some podcast that i listened to said really to said really to said really the difference between the strategy and the difference between the strategy and the difference between the strategy and the buffet model of ministry is thinking the buffet model of ministry is thinking the buffet model of ministry is thinking steps versus programs steps versus programs steps versus programs the programmed church is really much the programmed church is really much the programmed church is really much more of a buffet model of ministry more of a buffet model of ministry more of a buffet model of ministry whereas a strategic model is designed to whereas a strategic model is designed to whereas a strategic model is designed to move people along some kind of pathway move people along some kind of pathway move people along some kind of pathway taking steps in their journey with jesus taking steps in their journey with jesus taking steps in their journey with jesus from being a skeptic to being an from being a skeptic to being an from being a skeptic to being an explorer explorer explorer to actually becoming a sacrificial saint to actually becoming a sacrificial saint to actually becoming a sacrificial saint right and moving them along a pathway right and moving them along a pathway right and moving them along a pathway and so as we build a strategy and so as we build a strategy and so as we build a strategy the communication the communication the communication then becomes how do we communicate what then becomes how do we communicate what then becomes how do we communicate what a person's next step is and how to a person's next step is and how to a person's next step is and how to communicate with them how and when to communicate with them how and when to communicate with them how and when to take the next step take the next step take the next step now this leads me to my next question now this leads me to my next question now this leads me to my next question for you if we have a strategy and we for you if we have a strategy and we for you if we have a strategy and we have clear next steps for people there have clear next steps for people there have clear next steps for people there are a variety of different ways that we are a variety of different ways that we are a variety of different ways that we can communicate those things to people can communicate those things to people can communicate those things to people and i i personally and i i personally and i i personally i use this phrase with communications i use this phrase with communications i use this phrase with communications directors and i'm coaching all the time directors and i'm coaching all the time directors and i'm coaching all the time is to say you need to make sure you're is to say you need to make sure you're is to say you need to make sure you're delivering the right message to the delivering the right message to the delivering the right message to the right audience in the right timing on right audience in the right timing on right audience in the right timing on the right platform and it's that on the the right platform and it's that on the the right platform and it's that on the right platform that often seems to right platform that often seems to right platform that often seems to confuse people because you've got

confuse people because you've got confuse people because you've got everything from literally the platform everything from literally the platform everything from literally the platform on sunday morning which is the on sunday morning which is the on sunday morning which is the announcements to email the social the announcements to email the social the announcements to email the social the bulletins to text messages and you know bulletins to text messages and you know bulletins to text messages and you know website and all different things website and all different things website and all different things why don't you take a few minutes to kind why don't you take a few minutes to kind why don't you take a few minutes to kind of drill down on a few of our primary of drill down on a few of our primary of drill down on a few of our primary platforms or mechanisms of communication platforms or mechanisms of communication platforms or mechanisms of communication and talk about what you think the and talk about what you think the and talk about what you think the strengths and the weaknesses are for strengths and the weaknesses are for strengths and the weaknesses are for each of those why don't we start with each of those why don't we start with each of those why don't we start with email because that's one that i think is email because that's one that i think is email because that's one that i think is often undervalued but really important often undervalued but really important often undervalued but really important yeah i'll go through those i'll i'll yeah i'll go through those i'll i'll yeah i'll go through those i'll i'll talk about a mistake we made talk about a mistake we made talk about a mistake we made so i'll be vulnerable here so i'll be vulnerable here so i'll be vulnerable here when i was the communication director at when i was the communication director at when i was the communication director at my church my church my church um um um we used to just we had the pendulum we used to just we had the pendulum we used to just we had the pendulum swung so far to one side that we just swung so far to one side that we just swung so far to one side that we just communicated everything and we had all communicated everything and we had all communicated everything and we had all kinds of kinds of kinds of like print material on our web a digital like print material on our web a digital like print material on our web a digital we had it all we had pre-service slides we had it all we had pre-service slides we had it all we had pre-service slides we had everything and you could get into we had everything and you could get into we had everything and you could get into all kinds of stuff all kinds of stuff all kinds of stuff and and and i think a lot of our people felt like i think a lot of our people felt like i think a lot of our people felt like that was too much noise that was too much noise that was too much noise i said yeah you're probably right we i said yeah you're probably right we i said yeah you're probably right we probably need to probably need to probably need to swing that swing that swing that back a little bit and about the time back a little bit and about the time back a little bit and about the time that i left they had that i left they had that i left they had swung that pendulum swung that pendulum swung that pendulum so far on the other side so far on the other side so far on the other side it was difficult to find anything it was difficult to find anything it was difficult to find anything and and they were not using a lot of and and they were not using a lot of and and they were not using a lot of these tools these tools these tools and they're going nope less is more well and they're going nope less is more well and they're going nope less is more well no it's not sometimes less is just less no it's not sometimes less is just less no it's not sometimes less is just less and you're you're kind of shooting

and you're you're kind of shooting and you're you're kind of shooting yourself in the foot if you don't think yourself in the foot if you don't think yourself in the foot if you don't think that people don't read the stuff and i that people don't read the stuff and i that people don't read the stuff and i think i think that the people that think i think that the people that think i think that the people that stepped in that spot were thinking of stepped in that spot were thinking of stepped in that spot were thinking of themselves 20 something year olds 30 themselves 20 something year olds 30 themselves 20 something year olds 30 something year olds they weren't also something year olds they weren't also something year olds they weren't also thinking about the 40s and the 50s and thinking about the 40s and the 50s and thinking about the 40s and the 50s and 60s you know the older people 60s you know the older people 60s you know the older people like you and me bart and how how that like you and me bart and how how that like you and me bart and how how that affects us and how we can communicate so affects us and how we can communicate so affects us and how we can communicate so i'll just i'll start i i um i'll just i'll start i i um i'll just i'll start i i um when you think about communicating to when you think about communicating to when you think about communicating to ring one your people i still think email ring one your people i still think email ring one your people i still think email is really powerful it's very powerful i is really powerful it's very powerful i is really powerful it's very powerful i mean i mean i mean i i read my email now you might have i read my email now you might have i read my email now you might have multiple email you know like i have multiple email you know like i have multiple email you know like i have multiple email accounts but i still i multiple email accounts but i still i multiple email accounts but i still i still read still read still read if i want to hear from you you're my if i want to hear from you you're my if i want to hear from you you're my church it's like my if i'm why would i church it's like my if i'm why would i church it's like my if i'm why would i give my bank a fake email give my bank a fake email give my bank a fake email you wouldn't do that you that's your you wouldn't do that you that's your you wouldn't do that you that's your bank that's where you do business in the bank that's where you do business in the bank that's where you do business in the same kind of sense same kind of sense same kind of sense my church has my my church has my my church has my most popular email that i look at most popular email that i look at most popular email that i look at because it's my church because it's my church because it's my church right i get my giving statements i get right i get my giving statements i get right i get my giving statements i get notifications all my stuff from from notifications all my stuff from from notifications all my stuff from from that email that email that email right and and i have several emails but right and and i have several emails but right and and i have several emails but i think we if the church wants to get a i think we if the church wants to get a i think we if the church wants to get a hold of me they email me i mean it's hold of me they email me i mean it's hold of me they email me i mean it's just one of those things you still have just one of those things you still have just one of those things you still have an old do you still have an old aol an old do you still have an old aol an old do you still have an old aol email account that you use no i do not email account that you use no i do not email account that you use no i do not okay you might but i don't okay you might but i don't okay you might but i don't i don't okay all right now i think the i don't okay all right now i think the i don't okay all right now i think the second most second most second most uh powerful one i'm gonna switch this up uh powerful one i'm gonna switch this up uh powerful one i'm gonna switch this up a little bit i think is texting a little bit i think is texting a little bit i think is texting because i don't know about all of you because i don't know about all of you because i don't know about all of you but i have one cell phone

but i have one cell phone but i have one cell phone one now some people want to say they one now some people want to say they one now some people want to say they have two or three okay fine whatever i have two or three okay fine whatever i have two or three okay fine whatever i have one and most people have one and if have one and most people have one and if have one and most people have one and if you want to communicate a message to me you want to communicate a message to me you want to communicate a message to me text me text me text me right i'll see it at least i'll see it right i'll see it at least i'll see it right i'll see it at least i'll see it right right right um um um so i think you have to be really so i think you have to be really so i think you have to be really strategic between emails and texts by strategic between emails and texts by strategic between emails and texts by the way if you're talking about the way if you're talking about the way if you're talking about unchurched people are people looking for unchurched people are people looking for unchurched people are people looking for a church that ring to ring three some of a church that ring to ring three some of a church that ring to ring three some of the best stuff you can get is an email the best stuff you can get is an email the best stuff you can get is an email or a cell phone from people who are not or a cell phone from people who are not or a cell phone from people who are not yet part of your church because you can yet part of your church because you can yet part of your church because you can use that as a strategy to connect with use that as a strategy to connect with use that as a strategy to connect with them and invite them eventually right them and invite them eventually right them and invite them eventually right but we're talking about ring one um cell but we're talking about ring one um cell but we're talking about ring one um cell phones and email there's a strategy phones and email there's a strategy phones and email there's a strategy between using those two and i think you between using those two and i think you between using those two and i think you don't you gotta it's you got you have to don't you gotta it's you got you have to don't you gotta it's you got you have to have have have you have to talk about the rules what do you have to talk about the rules what do you have to talk about the rules what do we do what do we don't do we do what do we don't do we do what do we don't do right we don't just blast out everything right we don't just blast out everything right we don't just blast out everything it's not like everybody gets to text i it's not like everybody gets to text i it's not like everybody gets to text i don't receive from my church i don't don't receive from my church i don't don't receive from my church i don't receive everyday attacks from them from receive everyday attacks from them from receive everyday attacks from them from different ministries i would be different ministries i would be different ministries i would be unsubscribing as quick as i possibly unsubscribing as quick as i possibly unsubscribing as quick as i possibly could could could right so you got to be careful in that right so you got to be careful in that right so you got to be careful in that strategy with with with emails and strategy with with with emails and strategy with with with emails and sales sales sales social media social media social media okay okay okay that's an ever-changing thing because that's an ever-changing thing because that's an ever-changing thing because some people are not on social media i i some people are not on social media i i some people are not on social media i i have a facebook page i don't really get have a facebook page i don't really get have a facebook page i don't really get on facebook at all i don't have on facebook at all i don't have on facebook at all i don't have instagram i don't use snapchat i don't instagram i don't use snapchat i don't instagram i don't use snapchat i don't use tik-tok i don't use any of that use tik-tok i don't use any of that use tik-tok i don't use any of that stuff i that's just me right so i think stuff i that's just me right so i think stuff i that's just me right so i think it's important to communicate but don't it's important to communicate but don't it's important to communicate but don't use social media as hey that's how we use social media as hey that's how we use social media as hey that's how we communicate to everybody no you don't

communicate to everybody no you don't communicate to everybody no you don't because not everybody's on social media because not everybody's on social media because not everybody's on social media you've got to be careful what you're you've got to be careful what you're you've got to be careful what you're going to put on social media it's part going to put on social media it's part going to put on social media it's part of a it's a phenomenal strategy to of a it's a phenomenal strategy to of a it's a phenomenal strategy to connect with your people and reach a lot connect with your people and reach a lot connect with your people and reach a lot of people outside your church yeah let of people outside your church yeah let of people outside your church yeah let me let me just double click on on social me let me just double click on on social me let me just double click on on social media for a second i i think it is media for a second i i think it is media for a second i i think it is the most the most the most misunderstood misunderstood misunderstood and and and um misused platform for communication um misused platform for communication um misused platform for communication i believe in the value of social media i believe in the value of social media i believe in the value of social media but i also recognize that there are but i also recognize that there are but i also recognize that there are extreme limitations to what social media extreme limitations to what social media extreme limitations to what social media can do as it relates to communications i can do as it relates to communications i can do as it relates to communications i really don't see personally i don't see really don't see personally i don't see really don't see personally i don't see social media as a communications tool i social media as a communications tool i social media as a communications tool i don't think that the owners founders don't think that the owners founders don't think that the owners founders inventors of social media consider what inventors of social media consider what inventors of social media consider what they have a communication tool it's they have a communication tool it's they have a communication tool it's supposed to be a community engagement supposed to be a community engagement supposed to be a community engagement platform and so i'll just give you a platform and so i'll just give you a platform and so i'll just give you a prime example prime example prime example we have a missile marketing we have a we have a missile marketing we have a we have a missile marketing we have a facebook page with over 24 000 followers facebook page with over 24 000 followers facebook page with over 24 000 followers on our facebook page which by the way if on our facebook page which by the way if on our facebook page which by the way if you're not following our facebook page you're not following our facebook page you're not following our facebook page go to facebook and follow our facebook go to facebook and follow our facebook go to facebook and follow our facebook page we have an instagram account as page we have an instagram account as page we have an instagram account as well well well yeah we yeah we yeah we we post yeah we post content pretty we post yeah we post content pretty we post yeah we post content pretty regularly on our facebook page whether regularly on our facebook page whether regularly on our facebook page whether it's reposts of blogs or quotes from our it's reposts of blogs or quotes from our it's reposts of blogs or quotes from our podcasts or links to a podcast podcasts or links to a podcast podcasts or links to a podcast on average on average on average our 24 000 of our 24 000 followers on our 24 000 of our 24 000 followers on our 24 000 of our 24 000 followers on our facebook page the average post is our facebook page the average post is our facebook page the average post is organically distributed to about 100 to organically distributed to about 100 to organically distributed to about 100 to 120 people 120 people 120 people out of 24 000. so if we were relying on out of 24 000. so if we were relying on out of 24 000. so if we were relying on facebook to communicate to our audience

facebook to communicate to our audience facebook to communicate to our audience organizationally no one would ever know organizationally no one would ever know organizationally no one would ever know anything and they certainly wouldn't anything and they certainly wouldn't anything and they certainly wouldn't know it in the timing that we needed it know it in the timing that we needed it know it in the timing that we needed it to be in now this doesn't mean that you to be in now this doesn't mean that you to be in now this doesn't mean that you ignore social media it means that you ignore social media it means that you ignore social media it means that you just need to have realistic expectations just need to have realistic expectations just need to have realistic expectations for what you can accomplish with social for what you can accomplish with social for what you can accomplish with social media i believe that you have to have an media i believe that you have to have an media i believe that you have to have an active social media platform i think active social media platform i think active social media platform i think it's important to be regularly posting it's important to be regularly posting it's important to be regularly posting content relevant content content that content relevant content content that content relevant content content that really helps people understand who you really helps people understand who you really helps people understand who you are and how you as a church can move the are and how you as a church can move the are and how you as a church can move the needle in their lives but needle in their lives but needle in their lives but um you have to understand the um you have to understand the um you have to understand the limitations as it relates to posting limitations as it relates to posting limitations as it relates to posting events and activities and registration events and activities and registration events and activities and registration links and things for your ring one links and things for your ring one links and things for your ring one audience because you're you're assuming audience because you're you're assuming audience because you're you're assuming here's a problem with communications here's a problem with communications here's a problem with communications you're assuming that your audience is you're assuming that your audience is you're assuming that your audience is going to be on facebook that facebook is going to be on facebook that facebook is going to be on facebook that facebook is going to deliver your post to their feed going to deliver your post to their feed going to deliver your post to their feed and that they're going to see it and and that they're going to see it and and that they're going to see it and respond in the time of the timing that respond in the time of the timing that respond in the time of the timing that you want them to and that's one of the you want them to and that's one of the you want them to and that's one of the biggest assumptions that i think that biggest assumptions that i think that biggest assumptions that i think that can kill communications as it relates to can kill communications as it relates to can kill communications as it relates to social yeah i think there's a good uh social yeah i think there's a good uh social yeah i think there's a good uh rule of thumb rule of thumb rule of thumb you don't own your facebook page you don't own your facebook page you don't own your facebook page facebook owns your facebook page you facebook owns your facebook page you facebook owns your facebook page you don't own your instagram page you don't don't own your instagram page you don't don't own your instagram page you don't own your google my business page own your google my business page own your google my business page they all do they all do they all do you own your website you own your website you own your website and your website is controlled by you and your website is controlled by you and your website is controlled by you and if you choose not to pay your and if you choose not to pay your and if you choose not to pay your hosting bill it'll come down but it's hosting bill it'll come down but it's hosting bill it'll come down but it's yours those emails that you have yours those emails that you have yours those emails that you have you've collected you've collected you've collected well they're not your emails but you get well they're not your emails but you get well they're not your emails but you get what i'm saying nobody can kind of take what i'm saying nobody can kind of take what i'm saying nobody can kind of take that away from you it's it's what you've

that away from you it's it's what you've that away from you it's it's what you've you they've opted in to receive your you they've opted in to receive your you they've opted in to receive your emails you only emails you only emails you only send an control send an control send an control to somebody that's going to be delivered to somebody that's going to be delivered to somebody that's going to be delivered right text messages you send a text to right text messages you send a text to right text messages you send a text to somebody it's going to be delivered you somebody it's going to be delivered you somebody it's going to be delivered you post something on social media maybe or post something on social media maybe or post something on social media maybe or maybe not so don't have that assumption maybe not so don't have that assumption maybe not so don't have that assumption like you said like you said like you said it's not your property your website your it's not your property your website your it's not your property your website your emails your soul or your text messaging emails your soul or your text messaging emails your soul or your text messaging those are things that you can control those are things that you can control those are things that you can control and so utilize those tools as a way to and so utilize those tools as a way to and so utilize those tools as a way to communicate to your bring one audience communicate to your bring one audience communicate to your bring one audience okay let's talk about a couple of other okay let's talk about a couple of other okay let's talk about a couple of other things that you do own things that you do own things that you do own but these are only things that really but these are only things that really but these are only things that really impact those that are physically in impact those that are physically in impact those that are physically in attendance on sunday or i guess maybe attendance on sunday or i guess maybe attendance on sunday or i guess maybe they're they're watching online and they're they're watching online and they're they're watching online and that's bulletin and announcements let's that's bulletin and announcements let's that's bulletin and announcements let's talk a little bit about how you talk a little bit about how you talk a little bit about how you prioritize bulletin content for bulletin prioritize bulletin content for bulletin prioritize bulletin content for bulletin what do you see of value in a church what do you see of value in a church what do you see of value in a church having a bulletin these days and how do having a bulletin these days and how do having a bulletin these days and how do you prioritize announcements in the you prioritize announcements in the you prioritize announcements in the context of the church as it relates to context of the church as it relates to context of the church as it relates to you know communications effective you know communications effective you know communications effective communication well bulletin back in the communication well bulletin back in the communication well bulletin back in the day it was always at least when we were day it was always at least when we were day it was always at least when we were doing it was because you know our our doing it was because you know our our doing it was because you know our our pastor was going through an outline and pastor was going through an outline and pastor was going through an outline and so it was kind of fill in the blanks you so it was kind of fill in the blanks you so it was kind of fill in the blanks you could write with pens there are pencils could write with pens there are pencils could write with pens there are pencils in the back and the cue backs you could in the back and the cue backs you could in the back and the cue backs you could write stuff you know that kind of thing write stuff you know that kind of thing write stuff you know that kind of thing that's all changed right with the with that's all changed right with the with that's all changed right with the with apps and and just going that route and apps and and just going that route and apps and and just going that route and when covet happened everybody stopped when covet happened everybody stopped when covet happened everybody stopped because nobody's coming so they they're because nobody's coming so they they're because nobody's coming so they they're able to kill that sacred cow a little able to kill that sacred cow a little able to kill that sacred cow a little bit um i still think bit um i still think bit um i still think i i like the idea of an outline so i i like the idea of an outline so i i like the idea of an outline so that's i'm not going to talk about that that's i'm not going to talk about that that's i'm not going to talk about that but from the standpoint of a

but from the standpoint of a but from the standpoint of a bulletin i think it's overkill i bulletin i think it's overkill i bulletin i think it's overkill i wouldn't have a bulletin what i would wouldn't have a bulletin what i would wouldn't have a bulletin what i would replace that with though replace that with though replace that with though are invitation cards are invitation cards are invitation cards things that because think about this things that because think about this things that because think about this like like like if you want to communicate something i if you want to communicate something i if you want to communicate something i don't think you need to hand somebody a don't think you need to hand somebody a don't think you need to hand somebody a piece of paper direct to communicate it piece of paper direct to communicate it piece of paper direct to communicate it it can be said it can there's lots of it can be said it can there's lots of it can be said it can there's lots of different channels to communicate things different channels to communicate things different channels to communicate things we'll talk about that we'll talk about that we'll talk about that um that's just expensive um that's just expensive um that's just expensive and and by the way printing has and and by the way printing has and and by the way printing has gone way high in this era we are with gone way high in this era we are with gone way high in this era we are with inflation so inflation so inflation so i think you should get rid of the i think you should get rid of the i think you should get rid of the bulletin right and replace it with tools bulletin right and replace it with tools bulletin right and replace it with tools that you can give to your people to that you can give to your people to that you can give to your people to further your mission of inviting and further your mission of inviting and further your mission of inviting and bringing more people bringing more people bringing more people in my opinion so in my opinion so in my opinion so i love little cards that you know like i love little cards that you know like i love little cards that you know like uh literally we used to do this all the uh literally we used to do this all the uh literally we used to do this all the time we'd have an event or something time we'd have an event or something time we'd have an event or something we're gonna invite somebody to i'd we're gonna invite somebody to i'd we're gonna invite somebody to i'd literally mirror it so like a literally mirror it so like a literally mirror it so like a five by five or something like that card five by five or something like that card five by five or something like that card or something like that perfect right or something like that perfect right or something like that perfect right down the middle so it's identical down the middle so it's identical down the middle so it's identical information on this side to this side information on this side to this side information on this side to this side and we literally would say we would tear and we literally would say we would tear and we literally would say we would tear that and say this one's yours it goes on that and say this one's yours it goes on that and say this one's yours it goes on your fridge remember to come this one your fridge remember to come this one your fridge remember to come this one goes to that person that's on your mind goes to that person that's on your mind goes to that person that's on your mind that on your heart that you want to that on your heart that you want to that on your heart that you want to invite that neighbor that co-worker that invite that neighbor that co-worker that invite that neighbor that co-worker that relative that enemy whoever it is right relative that enemy whoever it is right relative that enemy whoever it is right you're going to take that card and go you're going to take that card and go you're going to take that card and go invite them and bring them to this thing invite them and bring them to this thing invite them and bring them to this thing and i think and i think and i think too many churches only do that like once too many churches only do that like once too many churches only do that like once or twice a year that's not how you or twice a year that's not how you or twice a year that's not how you condition condition condition you condition by doing it all the time you condition by doing it all the time you condition by doing it all the time and you get your congregation in the in and you get your congregation in the in and you get your congregation in the in the habit of this is what we do as a the habit of this is what we do as a the habit of this is what we do as a church we always invite and bring people

church we always invite and bring people church we always invite and bring people right but you got to give them tools right but you got to give them tools right but you got to give them tools digital tools yes but i think a physical digital tools yes but i think a physical digital tools yes but i think a physical physical tool i love that when our physical tool i love that when our physical tool i love that when our church does that for us because i church does that for us because i church does that for us because i literally walk across the street or all literally walk across the street or all literally walk across the street or all the fights and i'll be like hey i want the fights and i'll be like hey i want the fights and i'll be like hey i want to give this to you right i'd love to to give this to you right i'd love to to give this to you right i'd love to invite you you know they may or may not invite you you know they may or may not invite you you know they may or may not come but it's an easy it's an easy tool come but it's an easy it's an easy tool come but it's an easy it's an easy tool yeah so yeah so yeah so i'm not a big fan of using bulletins i i'm not a big fan of using bulletins i i'm not a big fan of using bulletins i mean i'm a big fan of using print mean i'm a big fan of using print mean i'm a big fan of using print material in the in the building in the material in the in the building in the material in the in the building in the worship service to help further our our worship service to help further our our worship service to help further our our ministry can i can i'm going to pause ministry can i can i'm going to pause ministry can i can i'm going to pause you on that for just one second um i you on that for just one second um i you on that for just one second um i might disagree with you a little bit might disagree with you a little bit might disagree with you a little bit depending on the context you and i agree depending on the context you and i agree depending on the context you and i agree on like 99 percent of things that on like 99 percent of things that on like 99 percent of things that relates to this stuff but i will tell relates to this stuff but i will tell relates to this stuff but i will tell you that you that you that your your most of your ministry your your most of your ministry your your most of your ministry background has been spent in very large background has been spent in very large background has been spent in very large churches most of mine has been in church churches most of mine has been in church churches most of mine has been in church plants smaller churches or what i would plants smaller churches or what i would plants smaller churches or what i would call normal-sized churches and and i call normal-sized churches and and i call normal-sized churches and and i still have the opportunity to do still have the opportunity to do still have the opportunity to do coaching with a lot of normal-sized coaching with a lot of normal-sized coaching with a lot of normal-sized churches around the country churches around the country churches around the country i i i do see in some cases value in a printed do see in some cases value in a printed do see in some cases value in a printed bulletin bulletin bulletin if your church is consistently seeing if your church is consistently seeing if your church is consistently seeing new people on a regular basis and you're new people on a regular basis and you're new people on a regular basis and you're a smaller church or a normal-sized a smaller church or a normal-sized a smaller church or a normal-sized church that can actually encapsulate in church that can actually encapsulate in church that can actually encapsulate in a bulletin the primary next steps in a bulletin the primary next steps in a bulletin the primary next steps in engagement opportunities for a person engagement opportunities for a person engagement opportunities for a person who's new who's new who's new your people will not typically read the your people will not typically read the your people will not typically read the bulletin and you can give everyone a bulletin and you can give everyone a bulletin and you can give everyone a bulletin when they come in every week bulletin when they come in every week bulletin when they come in every week but new people are looking for a place but new people are looking for a place but new people are looking for a place to hide and one of the best places for to hide and one of the best places for to hide and one of the best places for them to hide is to walk into your

them to hide is to walk into your them to hide is to walk into your worship center your sanctuary your you worship center your sanctuary your you worship center your sanctuary your you know auditorium find a seat somewhere know auditorium find a seat somewhere know auditorium find a seat somewhere towards the back and off to the side and towards the back and off to the side and towards the back and off to the side and bury their face in a bulletin for five bury their face in a bulletin for five bury their face in a bulletin for five minutes and read all the content that's minutes and read all the content that's minutes and read all the content that's in there so that you don't come and talk in there so that you don't come and talk in there so that you don't come and talk to them a lot of new people are looking to them a lot of new people are looking to them a lot of new people are looking for that opportunity and so for that opportunity and so for that opportunity and so in my last church that i pastored it was in my last church that i pastored it was in my last church that i pastored it was a church plant and we we printed a a church plant and we we printed a a church plant and we we printed a bulletin every single week but we knew bulletin every single week but we knew bulletin every single week but we knew for three straight years we had new for three straight years we had new for three straight years we had new people every single sunday and we viewed people every single sunday and we viewed people every single sunday and we viewed the bulletin the bulletin the bulletin as a promotional piece for new people it as a promotional piece for new people it as a promotional piece for new people it wasn't a bulletin so that our ring won wasn't a bulletin so that our ring won wasn't a bulletin so that our ring won people who were already ring warners it people who were already ring warners it people who were already ring warners it was for the ring tours who were taking was for the ring tours who were taking was for the ring tours who were taking the brave step of attending one of our the brave step of attending one of our the brave step of attending one of our worship services and so everything that worship services and so everything that worship services and so everything that was in the bulletin was written through was in the bulletin was written through was in the bulletin was written through the lens or through the filter of a the lens or through the filter of a the lens or through the filter of a person who didn't yet know our church so person who didn't yet know our church so person who didn't yet know our church so in a sense i think it's it which i'm in a sense i think it's it which i'm in a sense i think it's it which i'm totally cool that it sort of turns into totally cool that it sort of turns into totally cool that it sort of turns into somewhat of a brochure about your church somewhat of a brochure about your church somewhat of a brochure about your church so it's not really a so it's not really a so it's not really a it's sort of a bolt and i guess it could it's sort of a bolt and i guess it could it's sort of a bolt and i guess it could be printed each week it's totally up to be printed each week it's totally up to be printed each week it's totally up to you yeah um but you're right i think if you yeah um but you're right i think if you yeah um but you're right i think if it's intention if it's intentions are it's intention if it's intentions are it's intention if it's intentions are for new people to take that next step or for new people to take that next step or for new people to take that next step or to learn what the what the next step is to learn what the what the next step is to learn what the what the next step is i'm all for it yeah okay i'm all for it yeah okay i'm all for it yeah okay we have like two minutes left before we have like two minutes left before we have like two minutes left before we're gonna stop this and i have two we're gonna stop this and i have two we're gonna stop this and i have two more questions for you one of them is more questions for you one of them is more questions for you one of them is related one of them is related to related one of them is related to related one of them is related to something i kind of pitched in that last something i kind of pitched in that last something i kind of pitched in that last question which is announcements what question which is announcements what question which is announcements what gets announced on sunday morning from gets announced on sunday morning from gets announced on sunday morning from the platform oh gosh

the platform oh gosh the platform oh gosh well i you know um i think the biggest well i you know um i think the biggest well i you know um i think the biggest mistake you make is when you have like mistake you make is when you have like mistake you make is when you have like seven things to run by you today church seven things to run by you today church seven things to run by you today church i heard nothing right instead i think it i heard nothing right instead i think it i heard nothing right instead i think it should be one or two and then it's got should be one or two and then it's got should be one or two and then it's got to be i think it should impact the whole to be i think it should impact the whole to be i think it should impact the whole room room room and be very focused on that um maddie and be very focused on that um maddie and be very focused on that um maddie one of our coaches taught this where she one of our coaches taught this where she one of our coaches taught this where she used to used to used to you know ministers came and said to her you know ministers came and said to her you know ministers came and said to her hey we want to have an all church hey we want to have an all church hey we want to have an all church announcement for our our event and announcement for our our event and announcement for our our event and maddie's like you want to reach all maddie's like you want to reach all maddie's like you want to reach all these people to funnel down to get like these people to funnel down to get like these people to funnel down to get like you know 30 people to your event you know 30 people to your event you know 30 people to your event and she would just shake her and go no and she would just shake her and go no and she would just shake her and go no we're not going to do that we're going we're not going to do that we're going we're not going to do that we're going to turn that funnel upside down we're to turn that funnel upside down we're to turn that funnel upside down we're going to take we're going to impact the going to take we're going to impact the going to take we're going to impact the 30 people that that are tied to your 30 people that that are tied to your 30 people that that are tied to your ministry to to double to 60 ministry to to double to 60 ministry to to double to 60 right you don't do that through right you don't do that through right you don't do that through announcements to the whole church you announcements to the whole church you announcements to the whole church you don't announce everything otherwise you don't announce everything otherwise you don't announce everything otherwise you are just a bunch of noise you want to be are just a bunch of noise you want to be are just a bunch of noise you want to be really strategic in what is that even really strategic in what is that even really strategic in what is that even that's going to reach most of this room that's going to reach most of this room that's going to reach most of this room and is an outreach event to bring and is an outreach event to bring and is an outreach event to bring somebody with them somebody with them somebody with them that's my opinion on a verbal that's my opinion on a verbal that's my opinion on a verbal announcement when you talk about announcement when you talk about announcement when you talk about pre-service slides that's maybe a little pre-service slides that's maybe a little pre-service slides that's maybe a little different a little bit more open that's different a little bit more open that's different a little bit more open that's just kind of a rotating thing but when just kind of a rotating thing but when just kind of a rotating thing but when it comes to a on the stage announcement it comes to a on the stage announcement it comes to a on the stage announcement you know if the league pastor wants to you know if the league pastor wants to you know if the league pastor wants to announce it hey get out of his way announce it hey get out of his way announce it hey get out of his way because he's going to make the because he's going to make the because he's going to make the announcement no matter what you're going announcement no matter what you're going announcement no matter what you're going to support that but if it's up to you to to support that but if it's up to you to to support that but if it's up to you to decide what should we talk about decide what should we talk about decide what should we talk about in that sense less is a whole lot more i in that sense less is a whole lot more i in that sense less is a whole lot more i i like this here's my philosophy and i like this here's my philosophy and i like this here's my philosophy and that is that is that is one announcement gets made every single

one announcement gets made every single one announcement gets made every single week for sure and that is the first step week for sure and that is the first step week for sure and that is the first step for new people i want that gets for new people i want that gets for new people i want that gets announced every single week so if you do announced every single week so if you do announced every single week so if you do pizza with the pastor or starting point pizza with the pastor or starting point pizza with the pastor or starting point or next steps or whatever it is every or next steps or whatever it is every or next steps or whatever it is every single week single week single week and then the only other announcement and then the only other announcement and then the only other announcement that gets made every single week is that gets made every single week is that gets made every single week is something that is a church-wide we need something that is a church-wide we need something that is a church-wide we need everyone to know and to participate with everyone to know and to participate with everyone to know and to participate with a call to action a call to action a call to action any other announcements if they can't be any other announcements if they can't be any other announcements if they can't be incorporated in the sermon are probably incorporated in the sermon are probably incorporated in the sermon are probably not connected to the mission and the not connected to the mission and the not connected to the mission and the vision of the church and the strategy of vision of the church and the strategy of vision of the church and the strategy of the church like i i like to do that a the church like i i like to do that a the church like i i like to do that a lot when i would preach i would often lot when i would preach i would often lot when i would preach i would often okay we really have a couple of things okay we really have a couple of things okay we really have a couple of things that we need to announce hey small that we need to announce hey small that we need to announce hey small groups we have small groups starting up groups we have small groups starting up groups we have small groups starting up it really could be a church-wide it really could be a church-wide it really could be a church-wide announcement that we're starting small announcement that we're starting small announcement that we're starting small groups or i can build that in as a call groups or i can build that in as a call groups or i can build that in as a call to action in my sermon to make sure that to action in my sermon to make sure that to action in my sermon to make sure that everybody knows that your your everybody knows that your your everybody knows that your your action item from this week's teaching is action item from this week's teaching is action item from this week's teaching is to get engaged in community it's to join to get engaged in community it's to join to get engaged in community it's to join a small group it's to find a small group it's to find a small group it's to find accountability and that's this is how accountability and that's this is how accountability and that's this is how we're going to do that so i'm a one we're going to do that so i'm a one we're going to do that so i'm a one announcement a week guy yeah and that announcement a week guy yeah and that announcement a week guy yeah and that one announcement one announcement one announcement is for new people who are trying to is for new people who are trying to is for new people who are trying to figure out what their next step is i figure out what their next step is i figure out what their next step is i totally agree with that totally agree with that totally agree with that we got to wrap up but i got one more we got to wrap up but i got one more we got to wrap up but i got one more question and and you've already alluded question and and you've already alluded question and and you've already alluded to this a little bit and that is the to this a little bit and that is the to this a little bit and that is the timing of things as they get timing of things as they get timing of things as they get communicated you said hey you had a communicated you said hey you had a communicated you said hey you had a ministry leader that wanted to promote ministry leader that wanted to promote ministry leader that wanted to promote something in may or june for something something in may or june for something something in may or june for something that was going to happen in the fall we that was going to happen in the fall we that was going to happen in the fall we want to plant the seed so people know want to plant the seed so people know want to plant the seed so people know that it's coming all right give us a that it's coming all right give us a that it's coming all right give us a quick overview of what you think the

quick overview of what you think the quick overview of what you think the right timing is for most church right timing is for most church right timing is for most church initiatives and ministry initiatives oh initiatives and ministry initiatives oh initiatives and ministry initiatives oh several weeks out you know three three several weeks out you know three three several weeks out you know three three two to three to four weeks out is really two to three to four weeks out is really two to three to four weeks out is really when you're starting to communicate when you're starting to communicate when you're starting to communicate things that are going to come up things that are going to come up things that are going to come up obviously if you have like obviously if you have like obviously if you have like now your registrations for you know now your registrations for you know now your registrations for you know summer camps are coming up right so you summer camps are coming up right so you summer camps are coming up right so you probably should have been communicating probably should have been communicating probably should have been communicating summer camp registration back in like summer camp registration back in like summer camp registration back in like march you have an early bird march you have an early bird march you have an early bird deadline and you have like you know then deadline and you have like you know then deadline and you have like you know then the rates go up so you want to the rates go up so you want to the rates go up so you want to communicate those kinds of things but if communicate those kinds of things but if communicate those kinds of things but if it's an event you know you're going to it's an event you know you're going to it's an event you know you're going to have um uh i'm new here class kind of a have um uh i'm new here class kind of a have um uh i'm new here class kind of a thing you might want to do that two thing you might want to do that two thing you might want to do that two weeks out right and then do it another weeks out right and then do it another weeks out right and then do it another week out and you're kind of there in week out and you're kind of there in week out and you're kind of there in that space so i i think it depends on that space so i i think it depends on that space so i i think it depends on the size and the reach if you're going the size and the reach if you're going the size and the reach if you're going to have a like a fall festival you know to have a like a fall festival you know to have a like a fall festival you know that's going to be october 31st let's that's going to be october 31st let's that's going to be october 31st let's see where it's going to do it then when see where it's going to do it then when see where it's going to do it then when you're going to start communicating that you're going to start communicating that you're going to start communicating that probably around the first week of probably around the first week of probably around the first week of october you're going to start talking october you're going to start talking october you're going to start talking about hey save the day we're going to about hey save the day we're going to about hey save the day we're going to have this thing and make sure you bring have this thing and make sure you bring have this thing and make sure you bring a friend this is what we need we need to a friend this is what we need we need to a friend this is what we need we need to bring candy or whatever it is it's like bring candy or whatever it is it's like bring candy or whatever it is it's like three to four weeks out is typically the three to four weeks out is typically the three to four weeks out is typically the all church kind of things if it's a all church kind of things if it's a all church kind of things if it's a ministry thing it's usually like two to ministry thing it's usually like two to ministry thing it's usually like two to three weeks out i don't think most three weeks out i don't think most three weeks out i don't think most people plan their personal calendars and people plan their personal calendars and people plan their personal calendars and their personal lives any further out their personal lives any further out their personal lives any further out than that unless it's a big vacation or than that unless it's a big vacation or than that unless it's a big vacation or something right uh i've always operated something right uh i've always operated something right uh i've always operated on the uh six four two rule on the uh six four two rule on the uh six four two rule six weeks out it's in print and in email six weeks out it's in print and in email six weeks out it's in print and in email four weeks out it starts getting verbal four weeks out it starts getting verbal four weeks out it starts getting verbal announcement in two weeks out we started announcement in two weeks out we started announcement in two weeks out we started costing people about it because we want costing people about it because we want costing people about it because we want to make sure that everybody knows right to make sure that everybody knows right to make sure that everybody knows right so 642. put it in print make sure it's

so 642. put it in print make sure it's so 642. put it in print make sure it's on your website if you're printing a on your website if you're printing a on your website if you're printing a bulletin make sure it's in the bulletin bulletin make sure it's in the bulletin bulletin make sure it's in the bulletin six weeks out you don't need to start six weeks out you don't need to start six weeks out you don't need to start verbally communicating it until probably verbally communicating it until probably verbally communicating it until probably four weeks out and even that can four weeks out and even that can four weeks out and even that can probably go to three weeks out two weeks probably go to three weeks out two weeks probably go to three weeks out two weeks out it's gotta be everywhere it's social out it's gotta be everywhere it's social out it's gotta be everywhere it's social email you know newsletter email you know newsletter email you know newsletter printed bulletin sunday announcements printed bulletin sunday announcements printed bulletin sunday announcements whatever it is that you're you're trying whatever it is that you're you're trying whatever it is that you're you're trying to do if it's a large scale event like to do if it's a large scale event like to do if it's a large scale event like that yeah if you use a thing like asana that yeah if you use a thing like asana that yeah if you use a thing like asana as it's like a management tool project as it's like a management tool project as it's like a management tool project manager you can you can outline all that manager you can you can outline all that manager you can you can outline all that stuff and you now you know every single stuff and you now you know every single stuff and you now you know every single week okay what are we putting in there week okay what are we putting in there week okay what are we putting in there what's coming up and you can start what's coming up and you can start what's coming up and you can start filling that in it makes a lot easier to filling that in it makes a lot easier to filling that in it makes a lot easier to manage it yeah using a project manage it yeah using a project manage it yeah using a project management tool like asana we use asana management tool like asana we use asana management tool like asana we use asana we like kasana slack you can use base we like kasana slack you can use base we like kasana slack you can use base camp camp camp yeah yeah yeah yeah implement some sort of tool and yeah implement some sort of tool and yeah implement some sort of tool and some sort of strategy for mapping that some sort of strategy for mapping that some sort of strategy for mapping that stuff out and um you'll do a lot better stuff out and um you'll do a lot better stuff out and um you'll do a lot better in managing and maintaining effective in managing and maintaining effective in managing and maintaining effective communications uh jason this has been a communications uh jason this has been a communications uh jason this has been a great conversation thanks for taking the great conversation thanks for taking the great conversation thanks for taking the time with me today um for those of you time with me today um for those of you time with me today um for those of you who are tuning in to the podcast maybe who are tuning in to the podcast maybe who are tuning in to the podcast maybe this is your first time or maybe you've this is your first time or maybe you've this is your first time or maybe you've been listening for a while if you been listening for a while if you been listening for a while if you haven't left us a rating or review haven't left us a rating or review haven't left us a rating or review wherever you're consuming this content wherever you're consuming this content wherever you're consuming this content uh we'd absolutely love for you to do uh we'd absolutely love for you to do uh we'd absolutely love for you to do that it'll help more people find the that it'll help more people find the that it'll help more people find the podcast and uh if you haven't subscribed podcast and uh if you haven't subscribed podcast and uh if you haven't subscribed make sure that you do that that way you make sure that you do that that way you make sure that you do that that way you don't miss any future episodes we've don't miss any future episodes we've don't miss any future episodes we've still got a few more episodes in the can still got a few more episodes in the can still got a few more episodes in the can here for season two some of them are here for season two some of them are here for season two some of them are really good some really great leaders really good some really great leaders really good some really great leaders that we're excited to introduce you to that we're excited to introduce you to that we're excited to introduce you to so uh once again thanks for tuning in if so uh once again thanks for tuning in if so uh once again thanks for tuning in if there's anything that jason and i can do there's anything that jason and i can do there's anything that jason and i can do to serve you uh there's a link in the to serve you uh there's a link in the to serve you uh there's a link in the show notes about how you can contact us

show notes about how you can contact us show notes about how you can contact us personally thanks jason thank you personally thanks jason thank you personally thanks jason thank you [Music]