How Checklists, Process and Systems Take the Craziness Out of Leading a Church | Michael Lukaszewski

on today's podcast i have michael from on today's podcast i have michael from church church church fuel this organization helps fuel this organization helps fuel this organization helps thousands of churches around the country thousands of churches around the country thousands of churches around the country when it comes to strategic planning when it comes to strategic planning when it comes to strategic planning and budgeting and volunteers and and budgeting and volunteers and and budgeting and volunteers and leadership and they do leadership and they do leadership and they do so many things to help local churches so many things to help local churches so many things to help local churches and they work with small churches and and they work with small churches and and they work with small churches and large large large churches and everybody in between and so churches and everybody in between and so churches and everybody in between and so you're going to learn a lot from michael you're going to learn a lot from michael you're going to learn a lot from michael today enjoy today enjoy today enjoy well hey i am here with michael michael well hey i am here with michael michael well hey i am here with michael michael how you doing today i'm good man how how you doing today i'm good man how how you doing today i'm good man how about you about you about you i can't complain okay well it wouldn't i can't complain okay well it wouldn't i can't complain okay well it wouldn't matter if we did right so yeah matter if we did right so yeah matter if we did right so yeah no one's listening no one cares about no one's listening no one cares about no one's listening no one cares about that everybody's got problems that everybody's got problems that everybody's got problems so true so where are you located you so true so where are you located you so true so where are you located you know i am in uh i'm know i am in uh i'm know i am in uh i'm i'm north of atlanta so uh we moved to i'm north of atlanta so uh we moved to i'm north of atlanta so uh we moved to atlanta back in the mid 2000s actually atlanta back in the mid 2000s actually atlanta back in the mid 2000s actually to start a church to start a church to start a church and and loved it i grew up in florida and and loved it i grew up in florida and and loved it i grew up in florida but we uh we live in atlanta now in our but we uh we live in atlanta now in our but we uh we live in atlanta now in our team team team our team at church fuel um about half of our team at church fuel um about half of our team at church fuel um about half of us are in atlanta and the other half are us are in atlanta and the other half are us are in atlanta and the other half are spread out remote all over the country spread out remote all over the country spread out remote all over the country so so so okay yeah i'm a good southern i'm a good okay yeah i'm a good southern i'm a good okay yeah i'm a good southern i'm a good southerner i guess southerner i guess southerner i guess yeah just like us it seems like more yeah just like us it seems like more yeah just like us it seems like more companies are more companies are more companies are more some physical and mostly virtual these some physical and mostly virtual these some physical and mostly virtual these days anyway they're all over days anyway they're all over days anyway they're all over and it's funny because even before you and it's funny because even before you and it's funny because even before you know kovid showed up we were we were know kovid showed up we were we were know kovid showed up we were we were kind of kind of kind of trending that way anyway um even with an trending that way anyway um even with an trending that way anyway um even with an office people just working from home office people just working from home office people just working from home more efficient more efficient more efficient um like like the mix and the freedom and um like like the mix and the freedom and um like like the mix and the freedom and all that so all that so all that so it worked for us yeah absolutely it worked for us yeah absolutely it worked for us yeah absolutely so you run an organization called church so you run an organization called church so you run an organization called church fuel uh how did church feel get started fuel uh how did church feel get started fuel uh how did church feel get started and explain what you do and why you do

and explain what you do and why you do and explain what you do and why you do it it it yeah thanks for thanks for that question yeah thanks for thanks for that question yeah thanks for thanks for that question um so you know i was i grew up um so you know i was i grew up um so you know i was i grew up um i got my first job at a church when i um i got my first job at a church when i um i got my first job at a church when i was 18 years old i was a freshman at was 18 years old i was a freshman at was 18 years old i was a freshman at florida state university out some florida state university out some florida state university out some church hired me to be their youth pastor church hired me to be their youth pastor church hired me to be their youth pastor so i did youth ministry for a long time so i did youth ministry for a long time so i did youth ministry for a long time and then what brought my and then what brought my and then what brought my my family and i to atlanta in the my family and i to atlanta in the my family and i to atlanta in the mid-2000s was planning a church and so mid-2000s was planning a church and so mid-2000s was planning a church and so we started a church we started a church we started a church uh that was a portable church and met in uh that was a portable church and met in uh that was a portable church and met in a movie theater and the church grew a movie theater and the church grew a movie theater and the church grew really fast um part of it was i think we really fast um part of it was i think we really fast um part of it was i think we were doing a few things were doing a few things were doing a few things a few things well the part the other a few things well the part the other a few things well the part the other part of it was we were the only kind of part of it was we were the only kind of part of it was we were the only kind of church like us church like us church like us in in a town so in the town we were in in in a town so in the town we were in in in a town so in the town we were in and so as the church grew really fast it and so as the church grew really fast it and so as the church grew really fast it kind of exposed a lot of problems that kind of exposed a lot of problems that kind of exposed a lot of problems that we have we have we have under the scenes and it's funny i've under the scenes and it's funny i've under the scenes and it's funny i've talked to so many churches since then talked to so many churches since then talked to so many churches since then it's like yeah everything looks good on it's like yeah everything looks good on it's like yeah everything looks good on the the the on the on the outside but man inside we on the on the outside but man inside we on the on the outside but man inside we were a mess and we were disorganized and were a mess and we were disorganized and were a mess and we were disorganized and we didn't know how to do stuff we didn't know how to do stuff we didn't know how to do stuff and so you know rick warren back in the and so you know rick warren back in the and so you know rick warren back in the day talked about the difference between day talked about the difference between day talked about the difference between a cr a cr a cr a crowd and a church you know and so i a crowd and a church you know and so i a crowd and a church you know and so i realized we had a bunch of people realized we had a bunch of people realized we had a bunch of people we had a bunch of attenders but we we had a bunch of attenders but we we had a bunch of attenders but we didn't really have a good process for didn't really have a good process for didn't really have a good process for making disciples or recruiting making disciples or recruiting making disciples or recruiting volunteers or like managing money volunteers or like managing money volunteers or like managing money and so we we kind of put a pause we hit and so we we kind of put a pause we hit and so we we kind of put a pause we hit a pause button a pause button a pause button and we took several months and said we and we took several months and said we and we took several months and said we got to get this thing organized got to get this thing organized got to get this thing organized and so we started writing down and so we started writing down and so we started writing down checklists we started writing down checklists we started writing down checklists we started writing down processes i read a great book called the processes i read a great book called the processes i read a great book called the checklist manifesto checklist manifesto checklist manifesto and i was like we need to have and i was like we need to have and i was like we need to have checklists and processes and systems for checklists and processes and systems for checklists and processes and systems for stuff so we did we we did all that

stuff so we did we we did all that stuff so we did we we did all that put it in place and growth did not put it in place and growth did not put it in place and growth did not happen overnight happen overnight happen overnight but what did happen was everybody was but what did happen was everybody was but what did happen was everybody was able to kind of calm down and it took able to kind of calm down and it took able to kind of calm down and it took the crazy out of the crazy out of the crazy out of the church so then as we continued to the church so then as we continued to the church so then as we continued to grow at a healthy pace people started grow at a healthy pace people started grow at a healthy pace people started asking well how'd you do that can we asking well how'd you do that can we asking well how'd you do that can we have that document can we have that document can we have that document can we you know you know how did you do this you know you know how did you do this you know you know how did you do this and so that was really the genesis of and so that was really the genesis of and so that was really the genesis of churchill it was it was the churchill it was it was the churchill it was it was the organizational organizational organizational how do we get the church you know kind how do we get the church you know kind how do we get the church you know kind of streamlined organized of streamlined organized of streamlined organized uh we're not all running around like uh we're not all running around like uh we're not all running around like crazy and so i started churchill about crazy and so i started churchill about crazy and so i started churchill about six years ago six years ago six years ago and really to provide the kind of and really to provide the kind of and really to provide the kind of resources to churches that i wish resources to churches that i wish resources to churches that i wish we had when we were planning a church we had when we were planning a church we had when we were planning a church and so our flavor and so our flavor and so our flavor if you will is kind of operations how to if you will is kind of operations how to if you will is kind of operations how to run the church recruiting volunteers run the church recruiting volunteers run the church recruiting volunteers managing money developing managing money developing managing money developing leaders um you know not so much leaders um you know not so much leaders um you know not so much curriculum or theology and not because curriculum or theology and not because curriculum or theology and not because that's unimportant that's unimportant that's unimportant there's just a lot of great sources for there's just a lot of great sources for there's just a lot of great sources for that but that but that but they're increasingly is becoming more they're increasingly is becoming more they're increasingly is becoming more and more of what we do and that that's a and more of what we do and that that's a and more of what we do and that that's a good thing because we think churches good thing because we think churches good thing because we think churches ought to be ought to be ought to be some of the most well-run organizations some of the most well-run organizations some of the most well-run organizations on the planet because what we do matters on the planet because what we do matters on the planet because what we do matters well it seems so it seems like it's well it seems so it seems like it's well it seems so it seems like it's stuff that uh it's an addition to what stuff that uh it's an addition to what stuff that uh it's an addition to what you don't you don't you don't necessarily learn at seminary yeah these necessarily learn at seminary yeah these necessarily learn at seminary yeah these are all the ins and outs of owning and are all the ins and outs of owning and are all the ins and outs of owning and managing and running a business managing and running a business managing and running a business yeah and it's so it's funny and people's yeah and it's so it's funny and people's yeah and it's so it's funny and people's like this is the stuff you didn't learn like this is the stuff you didn't learn like this is the stuff you didn't learn in seminary and then i think i'm not in seminary and then i think i'm not in seminary and then i think i'm not sure this is the stuff you even sure this is the stuff you even sure this is the stuff you even should learn in seminary because i mean should learn in seminary because i mean should learn in seminary because i mean and i went to seminary and i love my

and i went to seminary and i love my and i went to seminary and i love my bible classes i love my theology bible classes i love my theology bible classes i love my theology classes and i i have a very high regard classes and i i have a very high regard classes and i i have a very high regard for that for pastoral training for that for pastoral training for that for pastoral training but the the the places i think to learn but the the the places i think to learn but the the the places i think to learn business and practices like that are business and practices like that are business and practices like that are from other businesses that are that are from other businesses that are that are from other businesses that are that are doing this doing this doing this and so it's funny we talk to pastors are and so it's funny we talk to pastors are and so it's funny we talk to pastors are like well i didn't realize i was i got like well i didn't realize i was i got like well i didn't realize i was i got into into into running a church and i didn't realize i running a church and i didn't realize i running a church and i didn't realize i had to run a business at the same time had to run a business at the same time had to run a business at the same time and so we say things like there are a and so we say things like there are a and so we say things like there are a lot of things in your church that should lot of things in your church that should lot of things in your church that should not be run like a business not be run like a business not be run like a business a church is not a business but there are a church is not a business but there are a church is not a business but there are some things in your church that should some things in your church that should some things in your church that should be run like a business be run like a business be run like a business because you are at least a business because you are at least a business because you are at least a business right so you're more than a business but right so you're more than a business but right so you're more than a business but you're at least a business you're at least a business you're at least a business and so you hire people you deal with and so you hire people you deal with and so you hire people you deal with payroll you have contracts you have pay payroll you have contracts you have pay payroll you have contracts you have pay a rent or mortgage um you you have a rent or mortgage um you you have a rent or mortgage um you you have systems and processes standard operating systems and processes standard operating systems and processes standard operating procedures and so procedures and so procedures and so we can learn how to do that stuff i we can learn how to do that stuff i we can learn how to do that stuff i didn't know how to do it didn't know how to do it didn't know how to do it i mean i was like a youth pastor so yeah i mean i was like a youth pastor so yeah i mean i was like a youth pastor so yeah you know some i had to learn the hard you know some i had to learn the hard you know some i had to learn the hard way and so if we can help people not way and so if we can help people not way and so if we can help people not learn the hard way that's a win for us learn the hard way that's a win for us learn the hard way that's a win for us okay so that's the that's the okay so that's the that's the okay so that's the that's the the why is like pastors are in this role the why is like pastors are in this role the why is like pastors are in this role they're they're they're it's kind of dysfunctional it seems like it's kind of dysfunctional it seems like it's kind of dysfunctional it seems like it looks great on the outside but the it looks great on the outside but the it looks great on the outside but the inside you're like inside you're like inside you're like craziness going on how do you actually craziness going on how do you actually craziness going on how do you actually help churches help churches help churches yeah so uh again great question so the yeah so uh again great question so the yeah so uh again great question so the core of what we do core of what we do core of what we do is uh we have a membership program is uh we have a membership program is uh we have a membership program called churchfuel called churchfuel called churchfuel and a church typically it's the pastor and a church typically it's the pastor and a church typically it's the pastor you know the pastor with the church you know the pastor with the church you know the pastor with the church credit card will go sign up and join credit card will go sign up and join credit card will go sign up and join and it's we try to keep it very

and it's we try to keep it very and it's we try to keep it very affordable and what they get affordable and what they get affordable and what they get right what a church gets for that is right what a church gets for that is right what a church gets for that is really how this helps really how this helps really how this helps is so we create we create online courses is so we create we create online courses is so we create we create online courses and so throughout the year and so throughout the year and so throughout the year we'll release three or four um pretty we'll release three or four um pretty we'll release three or four um pretty pretty in-depth courses pretty in-depth courses pretty in-depth courses on the topics that kind of i just on the topics that kind of i just on the topics that kind of i just described so the described so the described so the leadership stewardship volunteers um leadership stewardship volunteers um leadership stewardship volunteers um managing data managing data managing data you know whatever all you know all these you know whatever all you know all these you know whatever all you know all these different topics and so we'll spend different topics and so we'll spend different topics and so we'll spend several months creating a course getting several months creating a course getting several months creating a course getting experts writing the resources putting experts writing the resources putting experts writing the resources putting together those checklists and stuff together those checklists and stuff together those checklists and stuff and and our community kind of gets those and and our community kind of gets those and and our community kind of gets those and goes through them and and goes through them and and goes through them and and what's what's fascinating is and what's what's fascinating is and what's what's fascinating is covet has actually accelerated for us covet has actually accelerated for us covet has actually accelerated for us the ability for people to interact with the ability for people to interact with the ability for people to interact with this content because it's all digital this content because it's all digital this content because it's all digital and so we'll have pastors at their and so we'll have pastors at their and so we'll have pastors at their office office office in their home at night go through with in their home at night go through with in their home at night go through with their team watch on the zoom call their team watch on the zoom call their team watch on the zoom call together together together and so because this stuff is so easily and so because this stuff is so easily and so because this stuff is so easily distributed um it's actually reaching a distributed um it's actually reaching a distributed um it's actually reaching a wider audience now wider audience now wider audience now and so uh i i certainly don't wish and so uh i i certainly don't wish and so uh i i certainly don't wish anybody just wish to cover it on anybody anybody just wish to cover it on anybody anybody just wish to cover it on anybody we're all sick of it we're all sick of it we're all sick of it but at the same time the virtual um i but at the same time the virtual um i but at the same time the virtual um i don't even like that word virtual but don't even like that word virtual but don't even like that word virtual but the digital kind of distribution model the digital kind of distribution model the digital kind of distribution model um it helps so they consume all those we um it helps so they consume all those we um it helps so they consume all those we have all those courses and then there's have all those courses and then there's have all those courses and then there's resources that you can download resources that you can download resources that you can download templates um we do this thing called templates um we do this thing called templates um we do this thing called labs where we kind of work on little labs where we kind of work on little labs where we kind of work on little projects together projects together projects together and so it's really kind of this cool and so it's really kind of this cool and so it's really kind of this cool combination of a community of pastors combination of a community of pastors combination of a community of pastors that are trying to that are trying to that are trying to grow a healthy church and then just kind grow a healthy church and then just kind grow a healthy church and then just kind of get better of get better of get better info you know professional development

info you know professional development info you know professional development if you will if you will if you will okay so access to different resources i okay so access to different resources i okay so access to different resources i think you mentioned like think you mentioned like think you mentioned like people and systems culture strategic and people and systems culture strategic and people and systems culture strategic and then like then like then like spiritual yeah yeah and so really what spiritual yeah yeah and so really what spiritual yeah yeah and so really what we what we try to do and we what we try to do and we what we try to do and and you guys actually do a good job of and you guys actually do a good job of and you guys actually do a good job of this too is like you we try to identify this too is like you we try to identify this too is like you we try to identify what are the barriers like why where are what are the barriers like why where are what are the barriers like why where are churches getting stuck where are the churches getting stuck where are the churches getting stuck where are the beers where churches are trying to grow beers where churches are trying to grow beers where churches are trying to grow and they're not and they're not and they're not and they're not able to move forward and and they're not able to move forward and and they're not able to move forward and so what's what's funny is so what's what's funny is so what's what's funny is most people throughout the last i don't most people throughout the last i don't most people throughout the last i don't know 10 or 15 years know 10 or 15 years know 10 or 15 years have been saying you got to cast a good have been saying you got to cast a good have been saying you got to cast a good vision you got to cast a vision casper vision you got to cast a vision casper vision you got to cast a vision casper like vision is this miracle cure for all like vision is this miracle cure for all like vision is this miracle cure for all problems problems problems and i can take you to tons of churches and i can take you to tons of churches and i can take you to tons of churches where there are pastors that have great where there are pastors that have great where there are pastors that have great visions for their church and nothing's visions for their church and nothing's visions for their church and nothing's happening happening happening and so vision is not this magic solution and so vision is not this magic solution and so vision is not this magic solution that you know the that you know the that you know the the experts have made it out to be in the experts have made it out to be in the experts have made it out to be in fact vision doesn't even really unite us fact vision doesn't even really unite us fact vision doesn't even really unite us as much as we think it does it's as much as we think it does it's as much as we think it does it's actually the strategy actually the strategy actually the strategy that unites us so for example if you and that unites us so for example if you and that unites us so for example if you and i have like let's say we i have like let's say we i have like let's say we we have a shared vision um to go to we have a shared vision um to go to we have a shared vision um to go to disneyland disneyland disneyland and i want to drive cross country and and i want to drive cross country and and i want to drive cross country and take 14 days and stop at all the take 14 days and stop at all the take 14 days and stop at all the national parks and you want to take a national parks and you want to take a national parks and you want to take a plane ride because it's only 90 minutes plane ride because it's only 90 minutes plane ride because it's only 90 minutes and we we're aligned on the destination and we we're aligned on the destination and we we're aligned on the destination but we're not aligned on the journey and but we're not aligned on the journey and but we're not aligned on the journey and and so we're not we're not united and so and so we're not we're not united and so and so we're not we're not united and so many pastors are like many pastors are like many pastors are like here's the vision we're trying to reach here's the vision we're trying to reach here's the vision we're trying to reach people reach people well you're running people reach people well you're running people reach people well you're running into these roadblocks because vision into these roadblocks because vision into these roadblocks because vision isn't your robot isn't your robot isn't your robot system strategy people culture there are

system strategy people culture there are system strategy people culture there are spiritual things at play like you can spiritual things at play like you can spiritual things at play like you can have a great vision have a great vision have a great vision but there are spiritual barriers in but there are spiritual barriers in but there are spiritual barriers in place and so all of our courses and all place and so all of our courses and all place and so all of our courses and all of our resources are kind of designed to of our resources are kind of designed to of our resources are kind of designed to help help help they're the catalysts right they're the they're the catalysts right they're the they're the catalysts right they're the tools to help a pastor tools to help a pastor tools to help a pastor kind of lead their church through that kind of lead their church through that kind of lead their church through that barrier that they're facing hmm barrier that they're facing hmm barrier that they're facing hmm wow yeah and you offer wow yeah and you offer wow yeah and you offer you offer one-to-one coaching then yeah you offer one-to-one coaching then yeah you offer one-to-one coaching then yeah so so so when so when a pastor joins uh they get when so when a pastor joins uh they get when so when a pastor joins uh they get they get immediate access to all these they get immediate access to all these they get immediate access to all these courses all this digital all these courses all this digital all these courses all this digital all these digital resources digital resources digital resources um i think shannon from our team who um i think shannon from our team who um i think shannon from our team who runs our content just added like 40 more runs our content just added like 40 more runs our content just added like 40 more documents to the resource library so documents to the resource library so documents to the resource library so there's i mean there's just a ton of there's i mean there's just a ton of there's i mean there's just a ton of stuff in there but the other thing we do stuff in there but the other thing we do stuff in there but the other thing we do and i actually think this is the secret and i actually think this is the secret and i actually think this is the secret sauce of church deal sauce of church deal sauce of church deal is we have coaches that we that we pay is we have coaches that we that we pay is we have coaches that we that we pay that are basically on call all that are basically on call all that are basically on call all throughout the month throughout the month throughout the month so that anytime somebody is stuck so that anytime somebody is stuck so that anytime somebody is stuck whether it's with our resource or not whether it's with our resource or not whether it's with our resource or not anytime they need just some outside anytime they need just some outside anytime they need just some outside opinion outside advice opinion outside advice opinion outside advice that they can go on the site and book a that they can go on the site and book a that they can go on the site and book a call with one of our coaches call with one of our coaches call with one of our coaches and some of our members will book and some of our members will book and some of our members will book standing calls you know want them once a standing calls you know want them once a standing calls you know want them once a month and just check in month and just check in month and just check in with the same coach some will jump with the same coach some will jump with the same coach some will jump around to different ones around to different ones around to different ones some some will just use it when they get some some will just use it when they get some some will just use it when they get like have a sticky situation so i don't like have a sticky situation so i don't like have a sticky situation so i don't know if i need to know if i need to know if i need to you know make a leadership change or you know make a leadership change or you know make a leadership change or what do i do here and so what do i do here and so what do i do here and so that's all included in membership is that's all included in membership is that's all included in membership is that kind of on demand anytime you need that kind of on demand anytime you need that kind of on demand anytime you need to talk to somebody to talk to somebody to talk to somebody and and for us it kind of makes it real and and for us it kind of makes it real and and for us it kind of makes it real that yes there's a bunch of digital that yes there's a bunch of digital that yes there's a bunch of digital stuff but if you need to talk to a real stuff but if you need to talk to a real stuff but if you need to talk to a real person who is on staff at a church who

person who is on staff at a church who person who is on staff at a church who knows knows knows the church world but doesn't know your the church world but doesn't know your the church world but doesn't know your people and that's important people and that's important people and that's important right because we as pastors we get all right because we as pastors we get all right because we as pastors we get all involved in our involved in our involved in our in our context and sometimes we can't in our context and sometimes we can't in our context and sometimes we can't see force through the trees see force through the trees see force through the trees and that outside opinion comes in and and that outside opinion comes in and and that outside opinion comes in and goes well clearly this is the solution goes well clearly this is the solution goes well clearly this is the solution you're like oh well no kidding i just you're like oh well no kidding i just you're like oh well no kidding i just saw that saw that saw that and it's not that you're dumb it's that and it's not that you're dumb it's that and it's not that you're dumb it's that you're in it and you're in it and you're in it and when we're in it we don't see it all the when we're in it we don't see it all the when we're in it we don't see it all the time so yes we have these coaches time so yes we have these coaches time so yes we have these coaches that'll that'll talk to anybody about that'll that'll talk to anybody about that'll that'll talk to anybody about anything anything anything well not only would it be really good well not only would it be really good well not only would it be really good wisdom it's also wisdom it's also wisdom it's also a safe place for a pastor to to go to a safe place for a pastor to to go to a safe place for a pastor to to go to speak to somebody speak to somebody speak to somebody who understands what they're dealing who understands what they're dealing who understands what they're dealing with but isn't very close to the with but isn't very close to the with but isn't very close to the situation so you you know sometimes you situation so you you know sometimes you situation so you you know sometimes you have those sid have those sid have those sid you don't want anybody else to know this you don't want anybody else to know this you don't want anybody else to know this would be a safe place to would be a safe place to would be a safe place to kind of have a conversation and keep it kind of have a conversation and keep it kind of have a conversation and keep it confidential yeah and like so talking confidential yeah and like so talking confidential yeah and like so talking about team dynamic is a perfect example about team dynamic is a perfect example about team dynamic is a perfect example i mean it's not like you're going to go i mean it's not like you're going to go i mean it's not like you're going to go into a staff meeting and you go hey one into a staff meeting and you go hey one into a staff meeting and you go hey one of you one of you is not going to make of you one of you is not going to make of you one of you is not going to make it one of you is the problem it one of you is the problem it one of you is the problem you know um i mean that's you know um i mean that's you know um i mean that's you have fun staff meeting but probably you have fun staff meeting but probably you have fun staff meeting but probably shouldn't do that so sometimes it's good shouldn't do that so sometimes it's good shouldn't do that so sometimes it's good to talk to somebody about like here's to talk to somebody about like here's to talk to somebody about like here's what's going on here's the dynamic what's going on here's the dynamic what's going on here's the dynamic here's the people here's the people here's the people you know what do you think and the fact you know what do you think and the fact you know what do you think and the fact that it's not just a random that it's not just a random that it's not just a random business coaches somebody who lives and business coaches somebody who lives and business coaches somebody who lives and breathes the church breathes the church breathes the church but not your church yeah they're able to but not your church yeah they're able to but not your church yeah they're able to kind of step back and give some good kind of step back and give some good kind of step back and give some good good counsel and that's i mean that's good counsel and that's i mean that's good counsel and that's i mean that's that's a biblical thing right that's a biblical thing right that's a biblical thing right multitude of advisors right we need to multitude of advisors right we need to multitude of advisors right we need to have we need to have people speaking have we need to have people speaking have we need to have people speaking into us in that way yeah and you've been into us in that way yeah and you've been into us in that way yeah and you've been doing this doing this doing this for so long and you've worked with so

for so long and you've worked with so for so long and you've worked with so many churches i many churches i many churches i i imagine you do not see anything new i imagine you do not see anything new i imagine you do not see anything new like you've seen everything that's like you've seen everything that's like you've seen everything that's that pretty much can happen in a church that pretty much can happen in a church that pretty much can happen in a church you've probably experienced it or you've you've probably experienced it or you've you've probably experienced it or you've coached coached coached somebody through it or your coaches have somebody through it or your coaches have somebody through it or your coaches have coached another church through it coached another church through it coached another church through it which just you know i i mean it's the which just you know i i mean it's the which just you know i i mean it's the same thing when we talk to a lot of same thing when we talk to a lot of same thing when we talk to a lot of churches churches churches it's it's this i never hear of a new it's it's this i never hear of a new it's it's this i never hear of a new problem problem problem it's it's rare you know it's always yup it's it's rare you know it's always yup it's it's rare you know it's always yup okay that's i understand what you're okay that's i understand what you're okay that's i understand what you're doing with dealing with that we can help doing with dealing with that we can help doing with dealing with that we can help you in that in space you in that in space you in that in space and so what would be like what would be and so what would be like what would be and so what would be like what would be one of your most powerful tools that you one of your most powerful tools that you one of your most powerful tools that you guys guys guys offer is it is it the coaching or is offer is it is it the coaching or is offer is it is it the coaching or is there something else that you just see there something else that you just see there something else that you just see churches churches churches really love this tool they use it all really love this tool they use it all really love this tool they use it all the time yeah so the time yeah so the time yeah so i mean all that all you know the i mean all that all you know the i mean all that all you know the coaching is really good the coaching's coaching is really good the coaching's coaching is really good the coaching's helpful but helpful but helpful but but i i think i do have an answer for but i i think i do have an answer for but i i think i do have an answer for that question is so when somebody joins that question is so when somebody joins that question is so when somebody joins we have a course we have a course we have a course called building your ministry plan and called building your ministry plan and called building your ministry plan and it's it's a course that actually helps it's it's a course that actually helps it's it's a course that actually helps people people people um create almost a business plan for the um create almost a business plan for the um create almost a business plan for the church but it's simplified church but it's simplified church but it's simplified and so uh it's just a couple weeks ago i and so uh it's just a couple weeks ago i and so uh it's just a couple weeks ago i was i was searching for church strategic was i was searching for church strategic was i was searching for church strategic plans and i found one that was 67 pages plans and i found one that was 67 pages plans and i found one that was 67 pages long long long and i was like there's no way a 67 page and i was like there's no way a 67 page and i was like there's no way a 67 page plan is going to be even red much less plan is going to be even red much less plan is going to be even red much less followed right followed right followed right yeah it's like crazy so ours is two yeah it's like crazy so ours is two yeah it's like crazy so ours is two pages and so we we walk pages and so we we walk pages and so we we walk a church through these two pages and a church through these two pages and a church through these two pages and page one it gets helps you get real page one it gets helps you get real page one it gets helps you get real clear clear clear on who you are as a church like what's on who you are as a church like what's on who you are as a church like what's your purpose what's your mission what's your purpose what's your mission what's your purpose what's your mission what's your vision your vision your vision what are your what are your values and what are your what are your values and what are your what are your values and we have videos to kind of help guide we have videos to kind of help guide we have videos to kind of help guide people we have examples of churches that

people we have examples of churches that people we have examples of churches that do that well do that well do that well and the second page is all about what and the second page is all about what and the second page is all about what you do what are your programs what are you do what are your programs what are you do what are your programs what are your ministries what are the metrics your ministries what are the metrics your ministries what are the metrics that you're using to know if they're that you're using to know if they're that you're using to know if they're effective effective effective and so overall there's 13 little boxes and so overall there's 13 little boxes and so overall there's 13 little boxes and the boxes are very small and all and the boxes are very small and all and the boxes are very small and all this fits on two pages this fits on two pages this fits on two pages because that's about the capacity of because that's about the capacity of because that's about the capacity of people to understand what's going on people to understand what's going on people to understand what's going on and what we asked all churches to do and and what we asked all churches to do and and what we asked all churches to do and we guide them through the process we guide them through the process we guide them through the process is the first thing we want to do is is the first thing we want to do is is the first thing we want to do is create a draft of this two-page plan create a draft of this two-page plan create a draft of this two-page plan and then from there there's going to be and then from there there's going to be and then from there there's going to be ones that you're like i wasn't sure what ones that you're like i wasn't sure what ones that you're like i wasn't sure what to write in that box or i don't know if to write in that box or i don't know if to write in that box or i don't know if this was right this was right this was right and that's what kind of leads you in and that's what kind of leads you in and that's what kind of leads you in deeper and then we can kind of work on deeper and then we can kind of work on deeper and then we can kind of work on it with the coaches it with the coaches it with the coaches and we have more resources and more and we have more resources and more and we have more resources and more examples but for us that that two-page examples but for us that that two-page examples but for us that that two-page plan plan plan is what what we think about 90 of is what what we think about 90 of is what what we think about 90 of churches should do first churches should do first churches should do first just go ahead and get a draft of that just go ahead and get a draft of that just go ahead and get a draft of that and then let that kind of guide your and then let that kind of guide your and then let that kind of guide your next steps next steps next steps um and again planning solves so many um and again planning solves so many um and again planning solves so many problems problems problems for churches you know oh yeah for churches you know oh yeah for churches you know oh yeah yeah and you know and maybe maybe you'll yeah and you know and maybe maybe you'll yeah and you know and maybe maybe you'll find this to be true and i'd love your find this to be true and i'd love your find this to be true and i'd love your input but it this really is for input but it this really is for input but it this really is for almost any size church and it could be a almost any size church and it could be a almost any size church and it could be a startup church startup church startup church you know they're a church plant uh got you know they're a church plant uh got you know they're a church plant uh got 20 or 30 people and they're 20 or 30 people and they're 20 or 30 people and they're wanting to grow fast or it could be a wanting to grow fast or it could be a wanting to grow fast or it could be a church of a few thousand or maybe even church of a few thousand or maybe even church of a few thousand or maybe even 10 or 15 10 or 15 10 or 15 000 it might just be somebody who's 000 it might just be somebody who's 000 it might just be somebody who's stepping into the new leadership role stepping into the new leadership role stepping into the new leadership role that's right and they're they're in you that's right and they're they're in you that's right and they're they're in you know they are inheriting know they are inheriting know they are inheriting what they inherit it could be good bad what they inherit it could be good bad what they inherit it could be good bad or ugly what they're inheriting

or ugly what they're inheriting or ugly what they're inheriting so so who would be i guess talk about so so who would be i guess talk about so so who would be i guess talk about the target audience of the target audience of the target audience of of church feel because you have of church feel because you have of church feel because you have thousands of churches that subscribe and thousands of churches that subscribe and thousands of churches that subscribe and use use use church fuel which is amazing what does church fuel which is amazing what does church fuel which is amazing what does that look like and who's the that look like and who's the that look like and who's the who is the target church for europe yeah who is the target church for europe yeah who is the target church for europe yeah so that's a really good question we did so that's a really good question we did so that's a really good question we did we actually did some demographic study we actually did some demographic study we actually did some demographic study about about about i don't know it's probably been a little i don't know it's probably been a little i don't know it's probably been a little more than a year ago maybe 18 months ago more than a year ago maybe 18 months ago more than a year ago maybe 18 months ago it feels like 100 years now right and it feels like 100 years now right and it feels like 100 years now right and you start talking about a year ago you start talking about a year ago you start talking about a year ago um but so all all sizes it's crazy so um but so all all sizes it's crazy so um but so all all sizes it's crazy so all sizes all sizes all sizes all denominations you know all rural all denominations you know all rural all denominations you know all rural city um city um city um you know all you know all over the place you know all you know all over the place you know all you know all over the place but the common denominator and it's but the common denominator and it's but the common denominator and it's really a psychographic not a demographic really a psychographic not a demographic really a psychographic not a demographic the common denominator is the church is the common denominator is the church is the common denominator is the church is trying to reach new people trying to reach new people trying to reach new people and i know that seems like warren our and i know that seems like warren our and i know that seems like warren our church is trying to reach new people church is trying to reach new people church is trying to reach new people but you and i know they're so they're but you and i know they're so they're but you and i know they're so they're not that's right you know some churches not that's right you know some churches not that's right you know some churches are very content to keep are very content to keep are very content to keep you know their members happy and um you know their members happy and um you know their members happy and um i mean and that's that's it that is a i mean and that's that's it that is a i mean and that's that's it that is a par a part of church that we need to par a part of church that we need to par a part of church that we need to wrestle with wrestle with wrestle with but the common denominator for us it's but the common denominator for us it's but the common denominator for us it's churches and leaders churches and leaders churches and leaders whether it's a solo pastor we i had a whether it's a solo pastor we i had a whether it's a solo pastor we i had a pastor joined last week pastor joined last week pastor joined last week he's the only person on staff 35 people he's the only person on staff 35 people he's the only person on staff 35 people in their church in their church in their church and he's like is this good is this going and he's like is this good is this going and he's like is this good is this going to work for me to work for me to work for me and the the answer is yes and the the answer is yes and the the answer is yes because he's trying to reach new people because he's trying to reach new people because he's trying to reach new people he's trying he's trying he's trying to do some things he's not just willing to do some things he's not just willing to do some things he's not just willing to sit around and blame culture and to sit around and blame culture and to sit around and blame culture and nobody goes to church anymore nobody goes to church anymore nobody goes to church anymore blah blah blah blah so whether it's a blah blah blah blah so whether it's a blah blah blah blah so whether it's a smaller church or a normal size church

smaller church or a normal size church smaller church or a normal size church or a big church or whatever or a big church or whatever or a big church or whatever it's are we trying to reach uh people it's are we trying to reach uh people it's are we trying to reach uh people that's the common denominator because uh that's the common denominator because uh that's the common denominator because uh that that that that really is that mission that unites that really is that mission that unites that really is that mission that unites so many types of churches so you might so many types of churches so you might so many types of churches so you might be be be a lutheran church you might be a baptist a lutheran church you might be a baptist a lutheran church you might be a baptist church you might be a two-year-old church you might be a two-year-old church you might be a two-year-old non-denominational church non-denominational church non-denominational church but if you are trying to to reach you but if you are trying to to reach you but if you are trying to to reach you know people know people know people then this will help you yeah yeah and it then this will help you yeah yeah and it then this will help you yeah yeah and it seems like seems like seems like you know uh so we're talking about this you know uh so we're talking about this you know uh so we're talking about this pandemic we're pandemic we're pandemic we're here we are almost at the end of the here we are almost at the end of the here we are almost at the end of the year of 2021 um year of 2021 um year of 2021 um our 2020 getting ready to get into 2021 our 2020 getting ready to get into 2021 our 2020 getting ready to get into 2021 and it can't come quick enough probably and it can't come quick enough probably and it can't come quick enough probably uh but what have you uh but what have you uh but what have you you know what have you seen happen in you know what have you seen happen in you know what have you seen happen in the church the church the church over the last eight to ten months over the last eight to ten months over the last eight to ten months yeah um so i've seen the acceleration of yeah um so i've seen the acceleration of yeah um so i've seen the acceleration of a lot of what was already in motion a lot of what was already in motion a lot of what was already in motion right and so i distinctly remember back right and so i distinctly remember back right and so i distinctly remember back in march in march in march um the church we go to at atlanta was um the church we go to at atlanta was um the church we go to at atlanta was one of the first one of the first one of the first churches that i remember canceling you churches that i remember canceling you churches that i remember canceling you know canceling services or not having know canceling services or not having know canceling services or not having you know in-person services and they you know in-person services and they you know in-person services and they were one of the earlier churches to were one of the earlier churches to were one of the earlier churches to say we're staying we're staying online say we're staying we're staying online say we're staying we're staying online through the end of the year through the end of the year through the end of the year um and it's a it's a it's a big church um and it's a it's a it's a big church um and it's a it's a it's a big church but but but you know a lot of churches have ebbed you know a lot of churches have ebbed you know a lot of churches have ebbed inflows flowed through that right we've inflows flowed through that right we've inflows flowed through that right we've started we've met in person we've not started we've met in person we've not started we've met in person we've not you know you know you know so churches are all over the place um so churches are all over the place um so churches are all over the place um because of their unique contexts because of their unique contexts because of their unique contexts very locals things at play but here's very locals things at play but here's very locals things at play but here's what i've seen happen what i've seen happen what i've seen happen is this digital shift it was already

is this digital shift it was already is this digital shift it was already happening happening happening it was already happening it just made us it was already happening it just made us it was already happening it just made us do it quicker than we do it quicker than we do it quicker than we than we wanted to so in march or april a than we wanted to so in march or april a than we wanted to so in march or april a lot of churches who have never live lot of churches who have never live lot of churches who have never live streamed anything streamed anything streamed anything very like in a period of a week figured very like in a period of a week figured very like in a period of a week figured out like oh no out like oh no out like oh no uh we can't meet in the building on uh we can't meet in the building on uh we can't meet in the building on sunday sunday sunday so let's let's you know stick an iphone so let's let's you know stick an iphone so let's let's you know stick an iphone on a on a on a on a tripod that we got at best buy and on a tripod that we got at best buy and on a tripod that we got at best buy and facebook live this service facebook live this service facebook live this service and so that was a shift right that was and so that was a shift right that was and so that was a shift right that was just an immediate like we don't have just an immediate like we don't have just an immediate like we don't have another choice we have to do this another choice we have to do this another choice we have to do this but that's a very dramatic example but but that's a very dramatic example but but that's a very dramatic example but what we share online what we share online what we share online how we position our church how we talk how we position our church how we talk how we position our church how we talk about our church how we talk about about our church how we talk about about our church how we talk about inviting people to church inviting people to church inviting people to church i mean everything has shifted and i mean everything has shifted and i mean everything has shifted and it shifted out of necessity and what it shifted out of necessity and what it shifted out of necessity and what happened in the first two or three happened in the first two or three happened in the first two or three months months months is churches made quick decisions as we is churches made quick decisions as we is churches made quick decisions as we should have should have should have like we got to get this going by this like we got to get this going by this like we got to get this going by this week let's let's figure it out week let's let's figure it out week let's let's figure it out um people give with envelopes by um people give with envelopes by um people give with envelopes by via check you know we can't do that via check you know we can't do that via check you know we can't do that anymore because we don't have a service anymore because we don't have a service anymore because we don't have a service let's very quickly let's like let's very quickly let's like let's very quickly let's like like make it happen well now like make it happen well now like make it happen well now now we're eight nine ten months into now we're eight nine ten months into now we're eight nine ten months into this or whatever we're going all right this or whatever we're going all right this or whatever we're going all right did the decisions we made did the decisions we made did the decisions we made quickly were those the right decisions quickly were those the right decisions quickly were those the right decisions tactically right did we sign up for the tactically right did we sign up for the tactically right did we sign up for the right service did we right service did we right service did we do we put our doctor we repurpose our do we put our doctor we repurpose our do we put our doctor we repurpose our dollars in the right way because we're dollars in the right way because we're dollars in the right way because we're realizing that this is not just a realizing that this is not just a realizing that this is not just a immediate shift and then we'll go back immediate shift and then we'll go back immediate shift and then we'll go back and this is the new the new way right so and this is the new the new way right so and this is the new the new way right so i think covet accelerated trends and i think covet accelerated trends and i think covet accelerated trends and shifts that were already happening shifts that were already happening shifts that were already happening and churches that just make gathering or

and churches that just make gathering or and churches that just make gathering or regathering and getting back to normal regathering and getting back to normal regathering and getting back to normal are gonna are gonna are gonna are gonna are gonna are gonna are gonna lose in this churches that are gonna lose in this churches that are gonna lose in this churches that embrace embrace embrace the shift and strategy and saying things the shift and strategy and saying things the shift and strategy and saying things have changed the our purpose hasn't have changed the our purpose hasn't have changed the our purpose hasn't changed changed changed we're here to make disciples but how we we're here to make disciples but how we we're here to make disciples but how we do that is changing and and do that is changing and and do that is changing and and and those who embrace that i think will and those who embrace that i think will and those who embrace that i think will win yeah win yeah win yeah you know you speak to uh when things got you know you speak to uh when things got you know you speak to uh when things got shut down there's a shut down there's a shut down there's a we work with a lot of churches that rent we work with a lot of churches that rent we work with a lot of churches that rent a facility a facility a facility that can no longer rent that facility so that can no longer rent that facility so that can no longer rent that facility so they they they literally are uh kind of going back to literally are uh kind of going back to literally are uh kind of going back to the drawing board and figuring out okay the drawing board and figuring out okay the drawing board and figuring out okay we'll just keep doing this thing but we'll just keep doing this thing but we'll just keep doing this thing but then we're gonna have to have a relaunch then we're gonna have to have a relaunch then we're gonna have to have a relaunch at some point yeah at some point yeah at some point yeah it feels like that two-page strategic it feels like that two-page strategic it feels like that two-page strategic plan is plan is plan is should be right up if you don't have should be right up if you don't have should be right up if you don't have that church like that thing alone would that church like that thing alone would that church like that thing alone would probably probably probably do you wonders to help you get in the do you wonders to help you get in the do you wonders to help you get in the right right direction and if you had one right right direction and if you had one right right direction and if you had one it's all wrong now you know so it's like it's all wrong now you know so it's like it's all wrong now you know so it's like it's all but you know i think i think it's all but you know i think i think it's all but you know i think i think even like i know a lot of what you guys even like i know a lot of what you guys even like i know a lot of what you guys do for churches and how y'all do for churches and how y'all do for churches and how y'all serve churches um so a lot of tactics serve churches um so a lot of tactics serve churches um so a lot of tactics that we're doing have changed that we're doing have changed that we're doing have changed but here's the thing before covenant but here's the thing before covenant but here's the thing before covenant after coven people are still going to after coven people are still going to after coven people are still going to google searching for stuff google searching for stuff google searching for stuff right that's right so i mean whoever's right that's right so i mean whoever's right that's right so i mean whoever's listening or watching this i mean just listening or watching this i mean just listening or watching this i mean just type in type in type in go to open up google and type in the go to open up google and type in the go to open up google and type in the name of your city and the word divorce name of your city and the word divorce name of your city and the word divorce and see what comes up and what's going and see what comes up and what's going and see what comes up and what's going to come up is a bunch of divorce to come up is a bunch of divorce to come up is a bunch of divorce attorneys attorneys attorneys well people before kovid were searching well people before kovid were searching well people before kovid were searching for help for divorce for help for divorce for help for divorce after covert are going to be searching after covert are going to be searching after covert are going to be searching for that's going to be a big problem

for that's going to be a big problem for that's going to be a big problem why can't our church show up in that why can't our church show up in that why can't our church show up in that area why aren't churches showing up in area why aren't churches showing up in area why aren't churches showing up in the search results the search results the search results rather than just divorce attorneys and rather than just divorce attorneys and rather than just divorce attorneys and so that has been that's a perfect so that has been that's a perfect so that has been that's a perfect example of that was an opportunity example of that was an opportunity example of that was an opportunity pre-coven pre-coven pre-coven it's just it's a it's just a big it's just it's a it's just a big it's just it's a it's just a big opportunity after covid opportunity after covid opportunity after covid it's the churches that realize that and it's the churches that realize that and it's the churches that realize that and go you know what we're going to show up go you know what we're going to show up go you know what we're going to show up in that digital environment in that digital environment in that digital environment and not just hope that anybody who's and not just hope that anybody who's and not just hope that anybody who's going through going through going through tough times is going to find out our tough times is going to find out our tough times is going to find out our church service you know so it's being church service you know so it's being church service you know so it's being intentional intentional intentional yeah love it all right so how so yeah love it all right so how so yeah love it all right so how so how do churches they can go to how do churches they can go to how do churches they can go to churchfuel.com um churchfuel.com um churchfuel.com um pick up a subscription and it's if pick up a subscription and it's if pick up a subscription and it's if you've made it such an easy way to get you've made it such an easy way to get you've made it such an easy way to get engaged and the price points really low engaged and the price points really low engaged and the price points really low as well so talk a little bit about that as well so talk a little bit about that as well so talk a little bit about that yeah i mean so it's a monthly deal yeah i mean so it's a monthly deal yeah i mean so it's a monthly deal but we don't do any contracts so but we don't do any contracts so but we don't do any contracts so literally you can join for a month check literally you can join for a month check literally you can join for a month check it all out and go nope this is not what it all out and go nope this is not what it all out and go nope this is not what i thought and you can cancel i thought and you can cancel i thought and you can cancel right from the from the portal you don't right from the from the portal you don't right from the from the portal you don't have to call anybody you know to cancel have to call anybody you know to cancel have to call anybody you know to cancel i always hate it when i sign up for i always hate it when i sign up for i always hate it when i sign up for stuff stuff stuff oh yeah like oh you made it easy to sign oh yeah like oh you made it easy to sign oh yeah like oh you made it easy to sign up but to cancel you need to fax over up but to cancel you need to fax over up but to cancel you need to fax over right now right now right now you know the letter anyway you go to you know the letter anyway you go to you know the letter anyway you go to churchfuel.com and you can sign up churchfuel.com and you can sign up churchfuel.com and you can sign up and and you you can start with that and and you you can start with that and and you you can start with that two-page plan that building your two-page plan that building your two-page plan that building your ministry planning course is there ministry planning course is there ministry planning course is there uh you can see the resources uh you can uh you can see the resources uh you can uh you can see the resources uh you can see all that stuff see all that stuff see all that stuff and you can stay as long as you want you and you can stay as long as you want you and you can stay as long as you want you know our our members tend to stay for a know our our members tend to stay for a know our our members tend to stay for a long time long time long time because they really feel a sense of because they really feel a sense of because they really feel a sense of community and they community and they community and they you know they meet some of the coaches you know they meet some of the coaches you know they meet some of the coaches and they meet some other people and they and they meet some other people and they and they meet some other people and they realize hey for realize hey for realize hey for for you know less than the cost of i

for you know less than the cost of i for you know less than the cost of i don't know a lot of things that we spend don't know a lot of things that we spend don't know a lot of things that we spend money on in church money on in church money on in church that i can have actually a support that i can have actually a support that i can have actually a support system to system to system to to help going forward um yeah so it's to help going forward um yeah so it's to help going forward um yeah so it's you just you just sign up and get you just you just sign up and get you just you just sign up and get started right away and started right away and started right away and we'll start helping you yeah love it we'll start helping you yeah love it we'll start helping you yeah love it love it love it love it all right church you've heard it from all right church you've heard it from all right church you've heard it from the man here uh you gotta go take the man here uh you gotta go take the man here uh you gotta go take advantage of this uh i i talked a lot of advantage of this uh i i talked a lot of advantage of this uh i i talked a lot of churches that use church fuel churches that use church fuel churches that use church fuel uh thousands of churches do it's a great uh thousands of churches do it's a great uh thousands of churches do it's a great resource it's a very affordable resource resource it's a very affordable resource resource it's a very affordable resource and uh if you're dealing with i mean and uh if you're dealing with i mean and uh if you're dealing with i mean what church isn't dealing with some kind what church isn't dealing with some kind what church isn't dealing with some kind of an issue of an issue of an issue right and so getting the subscription right and so getting the subscription right and so getting the subscription just to learn get connected to a coach just to learn get connected to a coach just to learn get connected to a coach of i mean come on that's of i mean come on that's of i mean come on that's that's like a no-brainer to me so man i that's like a no-brainer to me so man i that's like a no-brainer to me so man i know sometimes i get stuck and i'm like know sometimes i get stuck and i'm like know sometimes i get stuck and i'm like who should i i'm going to call one of who should i i'm going to call one of who should i i'm going to call one of our coaches and ask them our coaches and ask them our coaches and ask them a question the question you know it's a question the question you know it's a question the question you know it's great that's what they're there for they great that's what they're there for they great that's what they're there for they love it yeah what a great resource love it yeah what a great resource love it yeah what a great resource so well thank you so much michael so well thank you so much michael so well thank you so much michael appreciate you appreciate church fuel appreciate you appreciate church fuel appreciate you appreciate church fuel and uh glad to have you today man thank and uh glad to have you today man thank and uh glad to have you today man thank you absolutely man thanks for having me you absolutely man thanks for having me you absolutely man thanks for having me appreciate it appreciate it appreciate it all right we'll talk to you soon okay all right we'll talk to you soon okay all right we'll talk to you soon okay church church church we just learned from michael what church we just learned from michael what church we just learned from michael what church fuel fuel fuel is all about and how they're helping is all about and how they're helping is all about and how they're helping countless pastors in churches today countless pastors in churches today countless pastors in churches today and i encourage you to go check them out and i encourage you to go check them out and i encourage you to go check them out churchfuel.com churchfuel.com churchfuel.com and sign up uh for their their platform and sign up uh for their their platform and sign up uh for their their platform it's it's it's it's cost effective as michael said it's cost effective as michael said it's cost effective as michael said there's no contracts there's no contracts there's no contracts you get to actually speak to a coach you get to actually speak to a coach you get to actually speak to a coach another pastor another pastor another pastor who will help you when you're dealing who will help you when you're dealing who will help you when you're dealing with things like

with things like with things like staffing issues or budgeting issues or staffing issues or budgeting issues or staffing issues or budgeting issues or you just have questions and you you want you just have questions and you you want you just have questions and you you want to keep that conversation confidential to keep that conversation confidential to keep that conversation confidential church fuel it's a great platform so i church fuel it's a great platform so i church fuel it's a great platform so i highly encourage you go do that highly encourage you go do that highly encourage you go do that until next time god bless and take care