Do Digital Ads Still Work for Churches | Jason and Bart

There's a reason why, you know, the the There's a reason why, you know, the the digital ad industry is in the billions digital ad industry is in the billions digital ad industry is in the billions of dollars of revenue. Billions. They of dollars of revenue. Billions. They of dollars of revenue. Billions. They wouldn't be spending billions if it wouldn't be spending billions if it wouldn't be spending billions if it wasn't working. So, we know it works. wasn't working. So, we know it works. wasn't working. So, we know it works. Well, this is episode number Well, this is episode number Well, this is episode number 177 of the Missional Marketing Podcast. 177 of the Missional Marketing Podcast. 177 of the Missional Marketing Podcast. I'm Bart Blair, joined by the CEO of I'm Bart Blair, joined by the CEO of I'm Bart Blair, joined by the CEO of Missional Marketing, Mr. Jason Hamrock. Missional Marketing, Mr. Jason Hamrock. Missional Marketing, Mr. Jason Hamrock. Good day to you, Mr. Jason, Good day to you, Mr. Jason, Good day to you, Mr. Jason, >> good day, Bart. It's a great day today. >> good day, Bart. It's a great day today. >> good day, Bart. It's a great day today. I'm excited. I'm excited. I'm excited. >> I would call you Dr. Hamrock, but you're >> I would call you Dr. Hamrock, but you're >> I would call you Dr. Hamrock, but you're not a doctor. But not a doctor. But not a doctor. But >> he plays one on TV. Play one on TV. You >> he plays one on TV. Play one on TV. You >> he plays one on TV. Play one on TV. You could play a doctor on TV. I bet you could play a doctor on TV. I bet you could play a doctor on TV. I bet you could pull that off. could pull that off. could pull that off. >> I could fake that. Yeah, you bet. >> I could fake that. Yeah, you bet. >> I could fake that. Yeah, you bet. >> You could fake that. Yeah, it's it's >> You could fake that. Yeah, it's it's >> You could fake that. Yeah, it's it's it's it's good to be able to hang out it's it's good to be able to hang out it's it's good to be able to hang out with you today. We're going to be uh with you today. We're going to be uh with you today. We're going to be uh talking about something that we talking about something that we talking about something that we absolutely love, which is digital absolutely love, which is digital absolutely love, which is digital marketing. Well, we are missional marketing. Well, we are missional marketing. Well, we are missional marketing. This is the space that we're marketing. This is the space that we're marketing. This is the space that we're in, and we're going to do a little bit in, and we're going to do a little bit in, and we're going to do a little bit of a deep dive on digital ads. If you of a deep dive on digital ads. If you of a deep dive on digital ads. If you happen to be new to the show, uh we've happen to be new to the show, uh we've happen to be new to the show, uh we've been producing this podcast since uh been producing this podcast since uh been producing this podcast since uh 2020, since like right around the time 2020, since like right around the time 2020, since like right around the time that that little thing called the CO 19 that that little thing called the CO 19 that that little thing called the CO 19 pandemic hit. Yeah. We've been producing pandemic hit. Yeah. We've been producing pandemic hit. Yeah. We've been producing the podcast since that time because the podcast since that time because the podcast since that time because we're trying to help churches grow by we're trying to help churches grow by we're trying to help churches grow by leveraging digital marketing and leveraging digital marketing and leveraging digital marketing and effective communication. So many of our effective communication. So many of our effective communication. So many of our episodes are specifically on sort of episodes are specifically on sort of episodes are specifically on sort of that outward-f facing communication, the that outward-f facing communication, the that outward-f facing communication, the marketing, reaching people who don't yet marketing, reaching people who don't yet marketing, reaching people who don't yet know that your church exists or haven't know that your church exists or haven't know that your church exists or haven't yet decided that your church is the yet decided that your church is the yet decided that your church is the right fit for them. Or we might be right fit for them. Or we might be right fit for them. Or we might be talking about things that are related to talking about things that are related to talking about things that are related to your internal communications and how to your internal communications and how to your internal communications and how to have better systems and structures and have better systems and structures and have better systems and structures and processes in place so that you as a processes in place so that you as a processes in place so that you as a communications director or a uh a a

communications director or a uh a a communications director or a uh a a pastor or a wear all kinds of hats in pastor or a wear all kinds of hats in pastor or a wear all kinds of hats in your church kind of person, whatever your church kind of person, whatever your church kind of person, whatever role you play, maybe you're a volunteer, role you play, maybe you're a volunteer, role you play, maybe you're a volunteer, maybe you're on staff, we want to help maybe you're on staff, we want to help maybe you're on staff, we want to help you be better at what you do because we you be better at what you do because we you be better at what you do because we believe that what you do is super super believe that what you do is super super believe that what you do is super super important. We're trying to communicate important. We're trying to communicate important. We're trying to communicate the gospel to people and help them live the gospel to people and help them live the gospel to people and help them live it out. And uh yeah, the role that you it out. And uh yeah, the role that you it out. And uh yeah, the role that you play is critical in that and that's what play is critical in that and that's what play is critical in that and that's what we're here to do. So Jason, we're going we're here to do. So Jason, we're going we're here to do. So Jason, we're going to to to >> record a conversation here uh discussing >> record a conversation here uh discussing >> record a conversation here uh discussing digital ads. In fact, the title of this digital ads. In fact, the title of this digital ads. In fact, the title of this podcast episode is do digital ads still podcast episode is do digital ads still podcast episode is do digital ads still work for churches? We're 2026 now. It's work for churches? We're 2026 now. It's work for churches? We're 2026 now. It's 2026. Is this really something that 2026. Is this really something that 2026. Is this really something that churches should still be spending money churches should still be spending money churches should still be spending money on? We we get this question often. You on? We we get this question often. You on? We we get this question often. You know, we spend thousands of dollars on know, we spend thousands of dollars on know, we spend thousands of dollars on ads every month. We're trying to drive ads every month. We're trying to drive ads every month. We're trying to drive growth in our church. Uh we're just growth in our church. Uh we're just growth in our church. Uh we're just we're just not seeing new visitors come. we're just not seeing new visitors come. we're just not seeing new visitors come. Um Jason, you and I have both spent Um Jason, you and I have both spent Um Jason, you and I have both spent years helping churches run ad campaigns years helping churches run ad campaigns years helping churches run ad campaigns to reach more people for Jesus. The to reach more people for Jesus. The to reach more people for Jesus. The internet is changing. We do know that. internet is changing. We do know that. internet is changing. We do know that. We we've talked about that some. We're We we've talked about that some. We're We we've talked about that some. We're going to be talking about that more. U going to be talking about that more. U going to be talking about that more. U culture is certainly changing. Um so culture is certainly changing. Um so culture is certainly changing. Um so what I want to do is dive into some of what I want to do is dive into some of what I want to do is dive into some of the things that maybe do work. Maybe the things that maybe do work. Maybe the things that maybe do work. Maybe some of the things that don't work.

some of the things that don't work. some of the things that don't work. maybe some of the things that used to maybe some of the things that used to maybe some of the things that used to work that aren't working well anymore or work that aren't working well anymore or work that aren't working well anymore or maybe some new things that churches maybe some new things that churches maybe some new things that churches haven't considered uh but ought to be haven't considered uh but ought to be haven't considered uh but ought to be trying. So, here's where I want to start trying. So, here's where I want to start trying. So, here's where I want to start and I'm going to kind of pitch a and I'm going to kind of pitch a and I'm going to kind of pitch a question to you and get you to kind of question to you and get you to kind of question to you and get you to kind of kind of respond to this. Uh churches kind of respond to this. Uh churches kind of respond to this. Uh churches spending, you know, 500 bucks to $1,000 spending, you know, 500 bucks to $1,000 spending, you know, 500 bucks to $1,000 a month on ads, um barely seeing any new a month on ads, um barely seeing any new a month on ads, um barely seeing any new visitors, just not seeing the needle visitors, just not seeing the needle visitors, just not seeing the needle move where they want the needle moved. move where they want the needle moved. move where they want the needle moved. um is with a budget of 500 bucks to um is with a budget of 500 bucks to um is with a budget of 500 bucks to a,000 bucks is it even worth spending a,000 bucks is it even worth spending a,000 bucks is it even worth spending money on marketing? Talk to that. money on marketing? Talk to that. money on marketing? Talk to that. >> The bottom line answer is yeah, it is. I >> The bottom line answer is yeah, it is. I >> The bottom line answer is yeah, it is. I mean, there's a reason why, you know, mean, there's a reason why, you know, mean, there's a reason why, you know, the the digital ad industry is in the the the digital ad industry is in the the the digital ad industry is in the billions of dollars of revenue. billions of dollars of revenue. billions of dollars of revenue. Billions. They wouldn't be spending Billions. They wouldn't be spending Billions. They wouldn't be spending billions if it wasn't working. So, we billions if it wasn't working. So, we billions if it wasn't working. So, we know it works, right? We know it works know it works, right? We know it works know it works, right? We know it works extremely well. The question though that extremely well. The question though that extremely well. The question though that you're asking me is a great question and you're asking me is a great question and you're asking me is a great question and I get that same kind of question myself I get that same kind of question myself I get that same kind of question myself from churches going, "Yeah, we're from churches going, "Yeah, we're from churches going, "Yeah, we're spending money on this stuff, but we spending money on this stuff, but we spending money on this stuff, but we just don't see." Well, I think there's just don't see." Well, I think there's just don't see." Well, I think there's probably three things that are wrong, probably three things that are wrong, probably three things that are wrong, three things I can identify that we three things I can identify that we three things I can identify that we should look at that could be the reason should look at that could be the reason should look at that could be the reason why this is not working. The first is why this is not working. The first is why this is not working. The first is the platform itself. You know, who are the platform itself. You know, who are the platform itself. You know, who are you t who are you trying to reach? Who you t who are you trying to reach? Who you t who are you trying to reach? Who are you targeting? Because if you just are you targeting? Because if you just are you targeting? Because if you just think, "Oh, I'm going to throw some think, "Oh, I'm going to throw some think, "Oh, I'm going to throw some money at Facebook and hope that gets money at Facebook and hope that gets money at Facebook and hope that gets people to walk through the doors." Yeah.

people to walk through the doors." Yeah. people to walk through the doors." Yeah. I mean, the answer is yes, that can I mean, the answer is yes, that can I mean, the answer is yes, that can work. But y you you better be able to work. But y you you better be able to work. But y you you better be able to spend a lot of money because the people spend a lot of money because the people spend a lot of money because the people who click on those ads in Facebook or in who click on those ads in Facebook or in who click on those ads in Facebook or in Meta are maybe not your target audience. Meta are maybe not your target audience. Meta are maybe not your target audience. Now, Facebook, probably not. Instagram Now, Facebook, probably not. Instagram Now, Facebook, probably not. Instagram could be, you know, it all depends on could be, you know, it all depends on could be, you know, it all depends on who it is in the Google side. It all who it is in the Google side. It all who it is in the Google side. It all depends on the platform you you you depends on the platform you you you depends on the platform you you you choose on who you're trying to reach. So choose on who you're trying to reach. So choose on who you're trying to reach. So that's the first thing and you got to that's the first thing and you got to that's the first thing and you got to dive into what platform is the right dive into what platform is the right dive into what platform is the right platform for who we're trying to reach. platform for who we're trying to reach. platform for who we're trying to reach. Second is the ad itself. Maybe the Second is the ad itself. Maybe the Second is the ad itself. Maybe the content. Maybe what you wrote down for content. Maybe what you wrote down for content. Maybe what you wrote down for the ad headline in the subline there. the ad headline in the subline there. the ad headline in the subline there. Maybe it just isn't hitting. It's not on Maybe it just isn't hitting. It's not on Maybe it just isn't hitting. It's not on point. Maybe it's the image or the video point. Maybe it's the image or the video point. Maybe it's the image or the video you you ch you chose to to run in that you you ch you chose to to run in that you you ch you chose to to run in that ad. That all matters. It's just let's ad. That all matters. It's just let's ad. That all matters. It's just let's just slap something up there and hope it just slap something up there and hope it just slap something up there and hope it works. Not a good strategy. So the works. Not a good strategy. So the works. Not a good strategy. So the actual content and the imagery or the actual content and the imagery or the actual content and the imagery or the video and the ad really really matters. video and the ad really really matters. video and the ad really really matters. So the platform matters, the ad itself So the platform matters, the ad itself So the platform matters, the ad itself matters. And then third, and and maybe matters. And then third, and and maybe matters. And then third, and and maybe this is probably the biggest one because this is probably the biggest one because this is probably the biggest one because you can get clicks, is your website, the you can get clicks, is your website, the you can get clicks, is your website, the landing page that you're sending these landing page that you're sending these landing page that you're sending these people to, does it all look cohesive?

people to, does it all look cohesive? people to, does it all look cohesive? Does it look exciting? Does it does it Does it look exciting? Does it does it Does it look exciting? Does it does it say to me, "Oo, I want to check them say to me, "Oo, I want to check them say to me, "Oo, I want to check them out." Because if there's a if there's a out." Because if there's a if there's a out." Because if there's a if there's a drop in any one of those three, the ad drop in any one of those three, the ad drop in any one of those three, the ad platform, the ad itself, or certainly platform, the ad itself, or certainly platform, the ad itself, or certainly that landing page, which we can get into that landing page, which we can get into that landing page, which we can get into more details. If that isn't on point, more details. If that isn't on point, more details. If that isn't on point, forget it. You know, they're just be forget it. You know, they're just be forget it. You know, they're just be like, eh, they're going to move right like, eh, they're going to move right like, eh, they're going to move right on. on. on. >> Yeah. It's interesting. You know, I >> Yeah. It's interesting. You know, I >> Yeah. It's interesting. You know, I there are so many different examples or there are so many different examples or there are so many different examples or illustrations that I could give for illustrations that I could give for illustrations that I could give for this. Yeah. this. Yeah. this. Yeah. >> Um, you know, but I think about, you >> Um, you know, but I think about, you >> Um, you know, but I think about, you know, how many times have you have you know, how many times have you have you know, how many times have you have you like, I don't know, I don't know if you like, I don't know, I don't know if you like, I don't know, I don't know if you do this, um, but you want to take your do this, um, but you want to take your do this, um, but you want to take your wife out to dinner and you see a wife out to dinner and you see a wife out to dinner and you see a restaurant and from the exterior of the restaurant and from the exterior of the restaurant and from the exterior of the restaurant and like that place looks restaurant and like that place looks restaurant and like that place looks really cool. We should go we should go really cool. We should go we should go really cool. We should go we should go check this place out. And and and it's a check this place out. And and and it's a check this place out. And and and it's a it's a nice idea, you know, you you look it's a nice idea, you know, you you look it's a nice idea, you know, you you look up what the restaurant might be like and up what the restaurant might be like and up what the restaurant might be like and then you go and you have the experience then you go and you have the experience then you go and you have the experience and the experience didn't match up with and the experience didn't match up with and the experience didn't match up with what you thought you were going to get. what you thought you were going to get. what you thought you were going to get. Has that ever happened to you? It It's Has that ever happened to you? It It's Has that ever happened to you? It It's happened to me all the time. happened to me all the time. happened to me all the time. >> Uh, can I tell one little story? So, I >> Uh, can I tell one little story? So, I >> Uh, can I tell one little story? So, I love to take my wife Sarah on a on a love to take my wife Sarah on a on a love to take my wife Sarah on a on a date night. And I'll tell you, I I I date night. And I'll tell you, I I I date night. And I'll tell you, I I I found this this little dive. And when I found this this little dive. And when I found this this little dive. And when I mean dive, mean dive, mean dive, >> dive it, bad part of town in Phoenix, >> dive it, bad part of town in Phoenix, >> dive it, bad part of town in Phoenix, south of Phoenix, uh, horrible looking south of Phoenix, uh, horrible looking south of Phoenix, uh, horrible looking exterior and everything like that. They exterior and everything like that. They exterior and everything like that. They had like 1,600 had like 1,600 had like 1,600 reviews in Google Business Profile.

reviews in Google Business Profile. reviews in Google Business Profile. 1,600. 1,600. 1,600. I'm thinking what? Everybody was saying, I'm thinking what? Everybody was saying, I'm thinking what? Everybody was saying, "Don't let the outside just even begin "Don't let the outside just even begin "Don't let the outside just even begin to explain how good their food is and to explain how good their food is and to explain how good their food is and how great their customer service is." how great their customer service is." how great their customer service is." And so I just read I just read and read And so I just read I just read and read And so I just read I just read and read and read. I'm like, "All right, let's go and read. I'm like, "All right, let's go and read. I'm like, "All right, let's go there. It's our favorite restaurant there. It's our favorite restaurant there. It's our favorite restaurant hands down with if we go to this hands down with if we go to this hands down with if we go to this restaurant, my it's like it's awesome. restaurant, my it's like it's awesome. restaurant, my it's like it's awesome. We've brought so many people, all of our We've brought so many people, all of our We've brought so many people, all of our friends there because the Google friends there because the Google friends there because the Google business profile, the reviews told me business profile, the reviews told me business profile, the reviews told me one thing. The pictures of the food told one thing. The pictures of the food told one thing. The pictures of the food told me one thing. The exterior told me a me one thing. The exterior told me a me one thing. The exterior told me a whole something. I'm glad I didn't just whole something. I'm glad I didn't just whole something. I'm glad I didn't just rely on the exterior. I actually checked rely on the exterior. I actually checked rely on the exterior. I actually checked it out because it it's it's amazing. it out because it it's it's amazing. it out because it it's it's amazing. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] >> Okay, I'm going to try to tie I'm going >> Okay, I'm going to try to tie I'm going >> Okay, I'm going to try to tie I'm going to try to relate that to what I was to try to relate that to what I was to try to relate that to what I was going to say here. But like here's the going to say here. But like here's the going to say here. But like here's the deal. your the ads that you're running, deal. your the ads that you're running, deal. your the ads that you're running, the creative that you're running, the the creative that you're running, the the creative that you're running, the platform that you're running your ads on platform that you're running your ads on platform that you're running your ads on is designed to entice a click, right? We is designed to entice a click, right? We is designed to entice a click, right? We want to get people to the website. want to get people to the website. want to get people to the website. That's really the first impression. It's That's really the first impression. It's That's really the first impression. It's like the exterior of the building. And like the exterior of the building. And like the exterior of the building. And if I'm going to be honest with you, if if I'm going to be honest with you, if if I'm going to be honest with you, if I'm going to open a restaurant, I'm I'm going to open a restaurant, I'm I'm going to open a restaurant, I'm going to do the best that I can to try going to do the best that I can to try going to do the best that I can to try to make sure that the exterior of the to make sure that the exterior of the to make sure that the exterior of the building is appealing so that people do building is appealing so that people do building is appealing so that people do want to try. But want to try. But want to try. But >> when people go in and have the >> when people go in and have the >> when people go in and have the experience, it's the experience that experience, it's the experience that experience, it's the experience that they have there that's going to actually they have there that's going to actually they have there that's going to actually get them to come back or go deeper, get them to come back or go deeper, get them to come back or go deeper, right? And so it's that that landing right? And so it's that that landing right? And so it's that that landing page. We see this as a fail with page. We see this as a fail with page. We see this as a fail with churches all the time. They spend tons churches all the time. They spend tons churches all the time. They spend tons and tons of money to drive traffic to and tons of money to drive traffic to and tons of money to drive traffic to the website, but spend very very little the website, but spend very very little the website, but spend very very little time and energy building a landing page

time and energy building a landing page time and energy building a landing page that really tells the best story and that really tells the best story and that really tells the best story and entices the visitor to the website to entices the visitor to the website to entices the visitor to the website to want to go deeper uh with the church. So want to go deeper uh with the church. So want to go deeper uh with the church. So it is it's all those different things. it is it's all those different things. it is it's all those different things. So, you know, the original question, So, you know, the original question, So, you know, the original question, how, you know, should I be able to how, you know, should I be able to how, you know, should I be able to attract new guests to my church with a attract new guests to my church with a attract new guests to my church with a budget of $500 to $1,000? Yeah, I think budget of $500 to $1,000? Yeah, I think budget of $500 to $1,000? Yeah, I think that the answer to that is is simply that the answer to that is is simply that the answer to that is is simply yes. You could probably do a little bit yes. You could probably do a little bit yes. You could probably do a little bit less. You could certainly do a whole lot less. You could certainly do a whole lot less. You could certainly do a whole lot more. Uh, you and I were on a call more. Uh, you and I were on a call more. Uh, you and I were on a call earlier today and I was explaining that earlier today and I was explaining that earlier today and I was explaining that I had a conversation with a church today I had a conversation with a church today I had a conversation with a church today that had received a grant um to do some that had received a grant um to do some that had received a grant um to do some advertising, some marketing, and I I advertising, some marketing, and I I advertising, some marketing, and I I told them that we would not do their told them that we would not do their told them that we would not do their advertising unless they rebuilt their advertising unless they rebuilt their advertising unless they rebuilt their website. I'm like, I'm not going to let website. I'm like, I'm not going to let website. I'm like, I'm not going to let you spend, you know, the $15,000 that you spend, you know, the $15,000 that you spend, you know, the $15,000 that you have in marketing money to drive you have in marketing money to drive you have in marketing money to drive people to a website that's guaranteed to people to a website that's guaranteed to people to a website that's guaranteed to pretty much not attract anyone to your pretty much not attract anyone to your pretty much not attract anyone to your church. You know, the website doesn't do church. You know, the website doesn't do church. You know, the website doesn't do your church justice. So, um, those are your church justice. So, um, those are your church justice. So, um, those are certainly some good things to consider.

certainly some good things to consider. certainly some good things to consider. And, uh, yeah, so wrong platform, bad And, uh, yeah, so wrong platform, bad And, uh, yeah, so wrong platform, bad creative equals wasted money. the right creative equals wasted money. the right creative equals wasted money. the right platform with great creative and a you platform with great creative and a you platform with great creative and a you know a bad website is wasted money. know a bad website is wasted money. know a bad website is wasted money. You've got to have all three lined up so You've got to have all three lined up so You've got to have all three lined up so that it works well for you. Uh let me that it works well for you. Uh let me that it works well for you. Uh let me get the next question because you kind get the next question because you kind get the next question because you kind of hinted on this a little bit and that of hinted on this a little bit and that of hinted on this a little bit and that is the platform. What what platforms is the platform. What what platforms is the platform. What what platforms should be churches should churches be should be churches should churches be should be churches should churches be investing in? Uh is it Meta? Is it investing in? Uh is it Meta? Is it investing in? Uh is it Meta? Is it Google? Is it something else? Everybody Google? Is it something else? Everybody Google? Is it something else? Everybody seems to have a different opinion. Uh seems to have a different opinion. Uh seems to have a different opinion. Uh some people are all in on meta. Some some people are all in on meta. Some some people are all in on meta. Some people are all in on Google. What's the people are all in on Google. What's the people are all in on Google. What's the right call for a church that's really right call for a church that's really right call for a church that's really trying to grow? trying to grow? trying to grow? >> Well, it's interesting you you say just >> Well, it's interesting you you say just >> Well, it's interesting you you say just Meta and Google because there's other Meta and Google because there's other Meta and Google because there's other ones. What about Tik Tok or LinkedIn or ones. What about Tik Tok or LinkedIn or ones. What about Tik Tok or LinkedIn or X or you know, we just chose not to X or you know, we just chose not to X or you know, we just chose not to really focus on those as a organization really focus on those as a organization really focus on those as a organization because we don't see the ROI. And not because we don't see the ROI. And not because we don't see the ROI. And not that not that you can't I think if you that not that you can't I think if you that not that you can't I think if you do any kind of advertising there's do any kind of advertising there's do any kind of advertising there's probably some juice you're going to get. probably some juice you're going to get. probably some juice you're going to get. It's just you're trying to get a lot of It's just you're trying to get a lot of It's just you're trying to get a lot of juice for that squeeze. And so we've juice for that squeeze. And so we've juice for that squeeze. And so we've really leaned in on on both Meta and and really leaned in on on both Meta and and really leaned in on on both Meta and and and Google. So we'll just talk about and Google. So we'll just talk about and Google. So we'll just talk about about those two platforms here. You about those two platforms here. You about those two platforms here. You know, in Meta you got Facebook and you know, in Meta you got Facebook and you know, in Meta you got Facebook and you got Instagram. And it's, you know, it's got Instagram. And it's, you know, it's got Instagram. And it's, you know, it's it we've ran I don't tens of thousands it we've ran I don't tens of thousands it we've ran I don't tens of thousands of campaigns and and received millions of campaigns and and received millions of campaigns and and received millions and millions of clicks over the years.

and millions of clicks over the years. and millions of clicks over the years. And I'll tell you the people that on And I'll tell you the people that on And I'll tell you the people that on Facebook that click on those ads are Facebook that click on those ads are Facebook that click on those ads are usually 60 and older women. Just the usually 60 and older women. Just the usually 60 and older women. Just the reality. And that's not a bad thing. reality. And that's not a bad thing. reality. And that's not a bad thing. Maybe they're the decision maker. So if Maybe they're the decision maker. So if Maybe they're the decision maker. So if you're putting together a women's you're putting together a women's you're putting together a women's conference, maybe Facebook's great. I conference, maybe Facebook's great. I conference, maybe Facebook's great. I probably also go Instagram. Instagram probably also go Instagram. Instagram probably also go Instagram. Instagram more more female dominated, just a more more female dominated, just a more more female dominated, just a little bit younger. little bit younger. little bit younger. So you know, Meta tends to be great for So you know, Meta tends to be great for So you know, Meta tends to be great for specific things like uh building specific things like uh building specific things like uh building awareness or or maybe reaching women for awareness or or maybe reaching women for awareness or or maybe reaching women for a women's conference or something like a women's conference or something like a women's conference or something like that. It's great uh like storytelling. that. It's great uh like storytelling. that. It's great uh like storytelling. Um, so yeah, you can I certainly want to Um, so yeah, you can I certainly want to Um, so yeah, you can I certainly want to maybe do both. I'm just It's just a how maybe do both. I'm just It's just a how maybe do both. I'm just It's just a how much budget ratio budget do you spend on much budget ratio budget do you spend on much budget ratio budget do you spend on either platform. If you don't have that either platform. If you don't have that either platform. If you don't have that much money, I probably would lean in much money, I probably would lean in much money, I probably would lean in Google, not necessarily Meta, but maybe Google, not necessarily Meta, but maybe Google, not necessarily Meta, but maybe both of them, you know, then you get both of them, you know, then you get both of them, you know, then you get everybody, right? Uh, but Meta's, you everybody, right? Uh, but Meta's, you everybody, right? Uh, but Meta's, you know, like you you said this and and know, like you you said this and and know, like you you said this and and Meta's audience is aging, [laughter] Meta's audience is aging, [laughter] Meta's audience is aging, [laughter] right? U which, you know, it's right? U which, you know, it's right? U which, you know, it's interesting. It'll be over the next 10 interesting. It'll be over the next 10 interesting. It'll be over the next 10 years. Are those younger people in their years. Are those younger people in their years. Are those younger people in their mid to late 20s or early 30s, are they mid to late 20s or early 30s, are they mid to late 20s or early 30s, are they going to graduate to something like going to graduate to something like going to graduate to something like Facebook?

Facebook? Facebook? I don't know. Something changes when you I don't know. Something changes when you I don't know. Something changes when you start having kids. start having kids. start having kids. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Because your parents are on that >> Because your parents are on that >> Because your parents are on that platform and now you want to. So, uh, platform and now you want to. So, uh, platform and now you want to. So, uh, you were just mentioning your kids will you were just mentioning your kids will you were just mentioning your kids will reach you one way. You're like, reach you one way. You're like, reach you one way. You're like, >> "Yeah, scratch your >> "Yeah, scratch your >> "Yeah, scratch your >> can send me messages in Instagram, which >> can send me messages in Instagram, which >> can send me messages in Instagram, which is weird. I got just text me." Uh they is weird. I got just text me." Uh they is weird. I got just text me." Uh they don't do it a lot, but from time to time don't do it a lot, but from time to time don't do it a lot, but from time to time I get these messages in Instagram like I get these messages in Instagram like I get these messages in Instagram like that would have would have could have that would have would have could have that would have would have could have should have been a text message, but should have been a text message, but should have been a text message, but it's kind of weird that it was an it's kind of weird that it was an it's kind of weird that it was an Instagram message. Instagram message. Instagram message. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So So Meta, you know, Meta is good, but >> So So Meta, you know, Meta is good, but >> So So Meta, you know, Meta is good, but it is it's aging. We know that it's it is it's aging. We know that it's it is it's aging. We know that it's nothing like earthshattering news, nothing like earthshattering news, nothing like earthshattering news, breaking news. We know this. But Google, breaking news. We know this. But Google, breaking news. We know this. But Google, so I I think Google, if you haven't in so I I think Google, if you haven't in so I I think Google, if you haven't in most churches that we talked to, and I most churches that we talked to, and I most churches that we talked to, and I know this is true for you, Bart, that know this is true for you, Bart, that know this is true for you, Bart, that your clients and and the churches we your clients and and the churches we your clients and and the churches we talked to, they don't know a whole lot talked to, they don't know a whole lot talked to, they don't know a whole lot about Google's advertising platforms. about Google's advertising platforms. about Google's advertising platforms. It's a little more complicated. It's It's a little more complicated. It's It's a little more complicated. It's like, which one do I choose? People like, which one do I choose? People like, which one do I choose? People think, "Oh, isn't that just search?" No, think, "Oh, isn't that just search?" No, think, "Oh, isn't that just search?" No, there's a lot more sophisticated there's a lot more sophisticated there's a lot more sophisticated platforms in Google's advertising tool platforms in Google's advertising tool platforms in Google's advertising tool belt than just Google search ads. Um, belt than just Google search ads. Um, belt than just Google search ads. Um, and yes, Google search ads are declining and yes, Google search ads are declining and yes, Google search ads are declining because of AI, but that's a whole because of AI, but that's a whole because of AI, but that's a whole another conversation. But if I were you, another conversation. But if I were you, another conversation. But if I were you, I would show I would choose their I would show I would choose their I would show I would choose their performance max ads, right? That it's performance max ads, right? That it's performance max ads, right? That it's around their AI that helps, you know, around their AI that helps, you know, around their AI that helps, you know, not because you're not just looking for not because you're not just looking for not because you're not just looking for more awareness. You're looking for more awareness. You're looking for more awareness. You're looking for conversions. You're looking for people conversions. You're looking for people conversions. You're looking for people that are going to show up to church.

that are going to show up to church. that are going to show up to church. They're going to walk through the doors. They're going to walk through the doors. They're going to walk through the doors. And that's really what it's built for. And that's really what it's built for. And that's really what it's built for. And so, it's not just engagement. and And so, it's not just engagement. and And so, it's not just engagement. and it's really conversion. So, your cost it's really conversion. So, your cost it's really conversion. So, your cost and what you call a cost per decision, and what you call a cost per decision, and what you call a cost per decision, which I love that um to tends to be which I love that um to tends to be which I love that um to tends to be lower in in in Google because it's a lower in in in Google because it's a lower in in in Google because it's a it's a cheaper platform and you can get it's a cheaper platform and you can get it's a cheaper platform and you can get a bigger bigger reach for the same a bigger bigger reach for the same a bigger bigger reach for the same dollars I think in terms of clicks maybe dollars I think in terms of clicks maybe dollars I think in terms of clicks maybe than the other platforms. Um, and you than the other platforms. Um, and you than the other platforms. Um, and you put this, this is a great bullet point. put this, this is a great bullet point. put this, this is a great bullet point. Think of it this way. Meta is for Think of it this way. Meta is for Think of it this way. Meta is for awareness and storytelling. Google awareness and storytelling. Google awareness and storytelling. Google Performance Max is for growth and um you Performance Max is for growth and um you Performance Max is for growth and um you might want to run a meta ad for like a might want to run a meta ad for like a might want to run a meta ad for like a women's kind of a thing, but then you women's kind of a thing, but then you women's kind of a thing, but then you might want to focus on something like might want to focus on something like might want to focus on something like Google if you're going to try to get Google if you're going to try to get Google if you're going to try to get more conversions to something. more conversions to something. more conversions to something. >> Yeah, I I mean it's I don't have to hide >> Yeah, I I mean it's I don't have to hide >> Yeah, I I mean it's I don't have to hide it. I tend to to to lean more towards it. I tend to to to lean more towards it. I tend to to to lean more towards Google ads than meta ads. Generally Google ads than meta ads. Generally Google ads than meta ads. Generally speaking, I think bang forbuck it's a speaking, I think bang forbuck it's a speaking, I think bang forbuck it's a it's a better way to spend money. I it's a better way to spend money. I it's a better way to spend money. I think churches that have limited budgets think churches that have limited budgets think churches that have limited budgets can stretch their budget further when can stretch their budget further when can stretch their budget further when they're advertising uh in in Google. And they're advertising uh in in Google. And they're advertising uh in in Google. And there are certainly some pluses to the there are certainly some pluses to the there are certainly some pluses to the Meta platform when it comes to drilling Meta platform when it comes to drilling Meta platform when it comes to drilling down on audience and the demographics down on audience and the demographics down on audience and the demographics that you're trying to reach. So, I think that you're trying to reach. So, I think that you're trying to reach. So, I think that you can get a little more exclusive that you can get a little more exclusive that you can get a little more exclusive with who you're targeting in meta ads.

with who you're targeting in meta ads. with who you're targeting in meta ads. The problem though is that anyone who The problem though is that anyone who The problem though is that anyone who sees a meta ad must have a Meta account, sees a meta ad must have a Meta account, sees a meta ad must have a Meta account, either Instagram or Facebook. either Instagram or Facebook. either Instagram or Facebook. >> Yeah. and you are at the mercy of them >> Yeah. and you are at the mercy of them >> Yeah. and you are at the mercy of them being on the platform in a on a being on the platform in a on a being on the platform in a on a consistent basis in the season in which consistent basis in the season in which consistent basis in the season in which you're running the ads whereas Google is you're running the ads whereas Google is you're running the ads whereas Google is all the place all over the place all the place all over the place all the place all over the place everywhere every every day. I had a call everywhere every every day. I had a call everywhere every every day. I had a call with I had a call with a pastor this with I had a call with a pastor this with I had a call with a pastor this morning who we were talking about Google morning who we were talking about Google morning who we were talking about Google ads and he said, you know, uh my wife ads and he said, you know, uh my wife ads and he said, you know, uh my wife and I we're really just we're and I we're really just we're and I we're really just we're uncomfortable with Google, so we've uncomfortable with Google, so we've uncomfortable with Google, so we've started using Duck DuckGo as our started using Duck DuckGo as our started using Duck DuckGo as our browser. Uh is there any way for us to browser. Uh is there any way for us to browser. Uh is there any way for us to advertise on another platform that's not advertise on another platform that's not advertise on another platform that's not Google? I'm like, well, yes, but here's Google? I'm like, well, yes, but here's Google? I'm like, well, yes, but here's the thing. The vast majority of the the thing. The vast majority of the the thing. The vast majority of the audience that you're still that you're audience that you're still that you're audience that you're still that you're trying to reach, number one, they're trying to reach, number one, they're trying to reach, number one, they're still using Google, but here's the other still using Google, but here's the other still using Google, but here's the other thing. But here's the other thing, okay? thing. But here's the other thing, okay? thing. But here's the other thing, okay? You can use duck.go. I use I pulled it You can use duck.go. I use I pulled it You can use duck.go. I use I pulled it up as an example. I said, "Okay, let's up as an example. I said, "Okay, let's up as an example. I said, "Okay, let's use duck.go as the browser and let's go use duck.go as the browser and let's go use duck.go as the browser and let's go to churchleaders.com. to churchleaders.com. to churchleaders.com. I want you to go to churchleaders.com I want you to go to churchleaders.com I want you to go to churchleaders.com and notice that every single page there and notice that every single page there and notice that every single page there are ads." Do you know where those ads are ads." Do you know where those ads are ads." Do you know where those ads are coming from? They're Google display are coming from? They're Google display are coming from? They're Google display ads. So, you can say you don't want to ads. So, you can say you don't want to ads. So, you can say you don't want to advertise on Google. You don't want to advertise on Google. You don't want to advertise on Google. You don't want to use Google. You want to run away and use Google. You want to run away and use Google. You want to run away and hide from Google. But right now, you hide from Google. But right now, you hide from Google. But right now, you still can't hide from Google. You're still can't hide from Google. You're still can't hide from Google. You're getting inundated with ads from Google.

getting inundated with ads from Google. getting inundated with ads from Google. whether you're using your goo a Google whether you're using your goo a Google whether you're using your goo a Google browser or Gmail or not. So I just say, browser or Gmail or not. So I just say, browser or Gmail or not. So I just say, hey, let's take advantage of the hey, let's take advantage of the hey, let's take advantage of the platform. It's everywhere all the time. platform. It's everywhere all the time. platform. It's everywhere all the time. Uh even what's funny, you mentioned uh Uh even what's funny, you mentioned uh Uh even what's funny, you mentioned uh advertising on the platform formerly advertising on the platform formerly advertising on the platform formerly known as Twitter, now called X. Uh when known as Twitter, now called X. Uh when known as Twitter, now called X. Uh when we run Google display ads, I will pull a we run Google display ads, I will pull a we run Google display ads, I will pull a an ad placement report for some of the an ad placement report for some of the an ad placement report for some of the churches that I work with, and we get churches that I work with, and we get churches that I work with, and we get Google display ads placed in the X app. Google display ads placed in the X app. Google display ads placed in the X app. So, if you're using the Twitter app on So, if you're using the Twitter app on So, if you're using the Twitter app on your phone, sometimes the ads that you your phone, sometimes the ads that you your phone, sometimes the ads that you see in the app are actually Google see in the app are actually Google see in the app are actually Google display ads. They're not even display ads. They're not even display ads. They're not even Twitter-based ads or Xbased ads. So, the Twitter-based ads or Xbased ads. So, the Twitter-based ads or Xbased ads. So, the irony is Google's everywhere. And you irony is Google's everywhere. And you irony is Google's everywhere. And you don't have to have a social platform. don't have to have a social platform. don't have to have a social platform. And, you know, we've said this before, And, you know, we've said this before, And, you know, we've said this before, we talk about this at our road shows. If we talk about this at our road shows. If we talk about this at our road shows. If you are looking to reach young men, you are looking to reach young men, you are looking to reach young men, YouTube is the place to be. YouTube is YouTube is the place to be. YouTube is YouTube is the place to be. YouTube is where you're going to reach young men. where you're going to reach young men. where you're going to reach young men. And you can get placements on YouTube And you can get placements on YouTube And you can get placements on YouTube using Google Performance Max ads and using Google Performance Max ads and using Google Performance Max ads and Google display ads. You can also run you Google display ads. You can also run you Google display ads. You can also run you YouTube specific ad campaigns. We don't YouTube specific ad campaigns. We don't YouTube specific ad campaigns. We don't always recommend that as a primary uh always recommend that as a primary uh always recommend that as a primary uh advertising platform for churches. Uh advertising platform for churches. Uh advertising platform for churches. Uh but you can get ad placements in YouTube but you can get ad placements in YouTube but you can get ad placements in YouTube uh using Google Display and Google uh using Google Display and Google uh using Google Display and Google Performance Max and that's definitely Performance Max and that's definitely Performance Max and that's definitely worth it I think. So okay, worth it I think. So okay, worth it I think. So okay, >> next question which is actually probably >> next question which is actually probably >> next question which is actually probably going to dive a little bit deeper into going to dive a little bit deeper into going to dive a little bit deeper into something that we we've already talked something that we we've already talked something that we we've already talked about a little bit here. Uh, but let's about a little bit here. Uh, but let's about a little bit here. Uh, but let's say a church is running ads. We're we're say a church is running ads. We're we're say a church is running ads. We're we're running ads and we're actually getting running ads and we're actually getting running ads and we're actually getting clicks. We're getting clicks from our clicks. We're getting clicks from our clicks. We're getting clicks from our Google ads.

Google ads. Google ads. >> It's working, >> It's working, >> It's working, >> but well, it's only halfway working >> but well, it's only halfway working >> but well, it's only halfway working because we're getting eyes on our because we're getting eyes on our because we're getting eyes on our website, but we're not actually getting website, but we're not actually getting website, but we're not actually getting people to walk through the doors. Like, people to walk through the doors. Like, people to walk through the doors. Like, people are not the these new visitors on people are not the these new visitors on people are not the these new visitors on our website are not translating to new our website are not translating to new our website are not translating to new visitors on our campus. What's the real visitors on our campus. What's the real visitors on our campus. What's the real problem here, Jason? What am I doing problem here, Jason? What am I doing problem here, Jason? What am I doing wrong? wrong? wrong? >> Man, that's such a great That's a great >> Man, that's such a great That's a great >> Man, that's such a great That's a great question because uh it it's it's true. question because uh it it's it's true. question because uh it it's it's true. We we know that these things work to We we know that these things work to We we know that these things work to generate traffic. Um and and you you put generate traffic. Um and and you you put generate traffic. Um and and you you put time and effort, you got the right time and effort, you got the right time and effort, you got the right platform, you got the right messaging, platform, you got the right messaging, platform, you got the right messaging, you got the right, you know, right image you got the right, you know, right image you got the right, you know, right image or video, they click. Now they're on or video, they click. Now they're on or video, they click. Now they're on your website and then they have a your website and then they have a your website and then they have a kind of experience. kind of experience. kind of experience. >> What's going on? Well, here's the thing >> What's going on? Well, here's the thing >> What's going on? Well, here's the thing that I always tell churches, and they're that I always tell churches, and they're that I always tell churches, and they're they're kind of like dumbfounded or they're kind of like dumbfounded or they're kind of like dumbfounded or surprised by this, but you have to surprised by this, but you have to surprised by this, but you have to understand wherever you're sending understand wherever you're sending understand wherever you're sending somebody to, and chances are it's it's a somebody to, and chances are it's it's a somebody to, and chances are it's it's a landing page of some sort, that is that landing page of some sort, that is that landing page of some sort, that is that user's homepage experience.

user's homepage experience. user's homepage experience. So often, this is just my experience of So often, this is just my experience of So often, this is just my experience of checking out landing pages. I'll give checking out landing pages. I'll give checking out landing pages. I'll give them my coaching two cents. Be like, them my coaching two cents. Be like, them my coaching two cents. Be like, this is such insider language. It's this is such insider language. It's this is such insider language. It's almost like you expect I should know almost like you expect I should know almost like you expect I should know what you're telling me. Yet, you got to what you're telling me. Yet, you got to what you're telling me. Yet, you got to understand that these clicks are coming understand that these clicks are coming understand that these clicks are coming from anybody that probably isn't aware from anybody that probably isn't aware from anybody that probably isn't aware of who you are, but you you peaked their of who you are, but you you peaked their of who you are, but you you peaked their interest. They clicked and now they're interest. They clicked and now they're interest. They clicked and now they're on your landing page. I see a lot of on your landing page. I see a lot of on your landing page. I see a lot of either lacking information or insider either lacking information or insider either lacking information or insider information and you just kind of lost information and you just kind of lost information and you just kind of lost me. So, you know, our website in general me. So, you know, our website in general me. So, you know, our website in general is like a whole another topic of is like a whole another topic of is like a whole another topic of building a website that's actually going building a website that's actually going building a website that's actually going to speak to the one over the 99, if that to speak to the one over the 99, if that to speak to the one over the 99, if that makes sense. And and you really need to makes sense. And and you really need to makes sense. And and you really need to talk to that person and have uh there's talk to that person and have uh there's talk to that person and have uh there's a lot I could talk about this, but you a lot I could talk about this, but you a lot I could talk about this, but you got to have really great engaging got to have really great engaging got to have really great engaging content. You got to answer the question content. You got to answer the question content. You got to answer the question that they're asking, and you got to make that they're asking, and you got to make that they're asking, and you got to make it feel like I want to be a part of it feel like I want to be a part of it feel like I want to be a part of that. Those people look different. So, that. Those people look different. So, that. Those people look different. So, just a couple of of points here. Usually just a couple of of points here. Usually just a couple of of points here. Usually I don't have a very clear call to I don't have a very clear call to I don't have a very clear call to action, a a button, you know, plan plan action, a a button, you know, plan plan action, a a button, you know, plan plan your visit. Um or I don't I don't see an your visit. Um or I don't I don't see an your visit. Um or I don't I don't see an FAQ that it goes into detail like do I FAQ that it goes into detail like do I FAQ that it goes into detail like do I bring my kids? What do I wear? How long bring my kids? What do I wear? How long bring my kids? What do I wear? How long is the service? Where are you located?

is the service? Where are you located? is the service? Where are you located? What's the service times? Um do should What's the service times? Um do should What's the service times? Um do should what what should I expect? Do I need to what what should I expect? Do I need to what what should I expect? Do I need to give? Where do I park? You know, stuff give? Where do I park? You know, stuff give? Where do I park? You know, stuff that we just go, "Well, duh." because that we just go, "Well, duh." because that we just go, "Well, duh." because we've been church people for so long, we've been church people for so long, we've been church people for so long, especially at our church that we're especially at our church that we're especially at our church that we're working in. Sometimes it's hard to put working in. Sometimes it's hard to put working in. Sometimes it's hard to put yourself into the the shoes of somebody yourself into the the shoes of somebody yourself into the the shoes of somebody who's maybe never been to church. By the who's maybe never been to church. By the who's maybe never been to church. By the way, that's a pretty large growing way, that's a pretty large growing way, that's a pretty large growing segment of our of our United States segment of our of our United States segment of our of our United States population. People who are we call them population. People who are we call them population. People who are we call them unchurched or dechurched. People who unchurched or dechurched. People who unchurched or dechurched. People who have never been to church except for have never been to church except for have never been to church except for maybe a funeral or a wedding. They've maybe a funeral or a wedding. They've maybe a funeral or a wedding. They've never been to church. Yet we see that never been to church. Yet we see that never been to church. Yet we see that young men specifically talk about young men specifically talk about young men specifically talk about YouTube are the fastest growing segment YouTube are the fastest growing segment YouTube are the fastest growing segment of people coming to faith and wanting of people coming to faith and wanting of people coming to faith and wanting answers. And so you talk when I talk to answers. And so you talk when I talk to answers. And so you talk when I talk to churches that we serve. I'll be like, churches that we serve. I'll be like, churches that we serve. I'll be like, you know, who's coming your church? All you know, who's coming your church? All you know, who's coming your church? All these young people are coming to our these young people are coming to our these young people are coming to our church, man. They are hungry for truth. church, man. They are hungry for truth. church, man. They are hungry for truth. Are they are they church? No, they're Are they are they church? No, they're Are they are they church? No, they're not church. Their parents don't go to not church. Their parents don't go to not church. Their parents don't go to church, so they don't go to church. So church, so they don't go to church. So church, so they don't go to church. So if they're checking you out, man, you if they're checking you out, man, you if they're checking you out, man, you really really want to speak to them and really really want to speak to them and really really want to speak to them and and make them the hero of their story and make them the hero of their story and make them the hero of their story that you can help them. You've got a bit that you can help them. You've got a bit that you can help them. You've got a bit you it's the benefit statement. You've you it's the benefit statement. You've you it's the benefit statement. You've got something for them and you want to got something for them and you want to got something for them and you want to give them clear call to actions on what give them clear call to actions on what give them clear call to actions on what they should do next. That's I mean they should do next. That's I mean they should do next. That's I mean there's more to that. You're you're there's more to that. You're you're there's more to that. You're you're going to give me some advice.

going to give me some advice. going to give me some advice. >> Well, yeah. I actually I'm going to >> Well, yeah. I actually I'm going to >> Well, yeah. I actually I'm going to actually ask you to follow up on actually ask you to follow up on actually ask you to follow up on something that you said a few minutes something that you said a few minutes something that you said a few minutes ago. You use the term conversions and in ago. You use the term conversions and in ago. You use the term conversions and in the church world the word conversion the church world the word conversion the church world the word conversion means one thing. Uh we're we're talking means one thing. Uh we're we're talking means one thing. Uh we're we're talking about websites and advertising about websites and advertising about websites and advertising conversion is something else. I want you conversion is something else. I want you conversion is something else. I want you to do two things. One I want you to kind to do two things. One I want you to kind to do two things. One I want you to kind of define what you mean when you say of define what you mean when you say of define what you mean when you say conversion and how do we measure conversion and how do we measure conversion and how do we measure conversions on a website related to an conversions on a website related to an conversions on a website related to an ad campaign? And secondly, you've ad campaign? And secondly, you've ad campaign? And secondly, you've already kind of hit on this but let's already kind of hit on this but let's already kind of hit on this but let's get a little bit more explicit. What are get a little bit more explicit. What are get a little bit more explicit. What are the things that actually kill the things that actually kill the things that actually kill conversions? What things on a website conversions? What things on a website conversions? What things on a website will actually kill conversions and will actually kill conversions and will actually kill conversions and actually stop the flow of someone moving actually stop the flow of someone moving actually stop the flow of someone moving through my website to explore and to through my website to explore and to through my website to explore and to find the things that I want them to find the things that I want them to find the things that I want them to find? find? find? >> Well, I mean, uh, slow load speeds, >> Well, I mean, uh, slow load speeds, >> Well, I mean, uh, slow load speeds, >> you know, um, information >> you know, um, information >> you know, um, information >> before you get before you get there, >> before you get before you get there, >> before you get before you get there, define what a conversion is. What is a define what a conversion is. What is a define what a conversion is. What is a what is a conversion? I mean, so in what is a conversion? I mean, so in what is a conversion? I mean, so in Google world, a conversion would be, you Google world, a conversion would be, you Google world, a conversion would be, you know, they they clicked on something, know, they they clicked on something, know, they they clicked on something, they stayed on the page long enough, they stayed on the page long enough, they stayed on the page long enough, they maybe they filled out a form. they maybe they filled out a form. they maybe they filled out a form. There's there's an action that the user There's there's an action that the user There's there's an action that the user took that creates a conversion. Just took that creates a conversion. Just took that creates a conversion. Just think of the marketplace. A conversion think of the marketplace. A conversion think of the marketplace. A conversion was somebody entered their credit card, was somebody entered their credit card, was somebody entered their credit card, hit pay now, right? And a and a hit pay now, right? And a and a hit pay now, right? And a and a conversion happened, a transaction conversion happened, a transaction conversion happened, a transaction happened. Um, I love your but what you happened. Um, I love your but what you happened. Um, I love your but what you helped uh lots of churches with is, hey, helped uh lots of churches with is, hey, helped uh lots of churches with is, hey, let us send you an email on what you can let us send you an email on what you can let us send you an email on what you can expect on your first visit. Just enter expect on your first visit. Just enter expect on your first visit. Just enter your email address and hit submit. If your email address and hit submit. If your email address and hit submit. If they do that, that's a conversion. They they do that, that's a conversion. They they do that, that's a conversion. They convert it. They there's a a transfer of convert it. They there's a a transfer of convert it. They there's a a transfer of information. That's when I talk about a

information. That's when I talk about a information. That's when I talk about a conversion. conversion. conversion. >> Yeah. And on a and on a side note there, >> Yeah. And on a and on a side note there, >> Yeah. And on a and on a side note there, when we build Google ad campaigns for when we build Google ad campaigns for when we build Google ad campaigns for churches, one of the things that churches, one of the things that churches, one of the things that actually helps the Google ad campaigns actually helps the Google ad campaigns actually helps the Google ad campaigns perform well is we use a platform called perform well is we use a platform called perform well is we use a platform called Google Tag Manager and we program in Google Tag Manager and we program in Google Tag Manager and we program in Google Tag Manager the things that we Google Tag Manager the things that we Google Tag Manager the things that we want the user to be clicking on. Not want the user to be clicking on. Not want the user to be clicking on. Not every user needs to click on every every user needs to click on every every user needs to click on every button. So we have very specific things button. So we have very specific things button. So we have very specific things on the landing page, the homepage, or on the landing page, the homepage, or on the landing page, the homepage, or the event landing page. And we're the event landing page. And we're the event landing page. And we're telling Google when a person because telling Google when a person because telling Google when a person because we're not selling a product. Google we're not selling a product. Google we're not selling a product. Google doesn't know if we're winning from their doesn't know if we're winning from their doesn't know if we're winning from their ads. No. So Google knows we're winning ads. No. So Google knows we're winning ads. No. So Google knows we're winning when we say, "Hey, there's a plan a when we say, "Hey, there's a plan a when we say, "Hey, there's a plan a visit button or there's an I'm new visit button or there's an I'm new visit button or there's an I'm new button or there's a watch on demand button or there's a watch on demand button or there's a watch on demand button." And when someone clicks on button." And when someone clicks on button." And when someone clicks on that, it triggers this Google tag that that, it triggers this Google tag that that, it triggers this Google tag that says, "Oh, that's a win." Okay. early says, "Oh, that's a win." Okay. early says, "Oh, that's a win." Okay. early in. in. in. >> So, so when somebody of the, you know, >> So, so when somebody of the, you know, >> So, so when somebody of the, you know, somebody clicks on this ad and they land somebody clicks on this ad and they land somebody clicks on this ad and they land on this page, this is how we know on this page, this is how we know on this page, this is how we know they're winning. And so, Google is they're winning. And so, Google is they're winning. And so, Google is monitoring those things as it's monitoring those things as it's monitoring those things as it's delivering ads and it's trying to use is delivering ads and it's trying to use is delivering ads and it's trying to use is trying to use AI to better place the ads trying to use AI to better place the ads trying to use AI to better place the ads in front of people who are a going to in front of people who are a going to in front of people who are a going to click the ad and b then convert when click the ad and b then convert when click the ad and b then convert when they get to the website. Right? So, that they get to the website. Right? So, that they get to the website. Right? So, that that's how it's using these things. So, that's how it's using these things. So, that's how it's using these things. So, you know, so we talk about conversions you know, so we talk about conversions you know, so we talk about conversions or engagements. That's another way to to or engagements. That's another way to to or engagements. That's another way to to say it. It's a measurable action on the say it. It's a measurable action on the say it. It's a measurable action on the website. What are the things that cause website. What are the things that cause website. What are the things that cause that process to break down? You you said that process to break down? You you said that process to break down? You you said a low a slow load speed was one of

a low a slow load speed was one of a low a slow load speed was one of >> confusion on the page. It's not >> confusion on the page. It's not >> confusion on the page. It's not organized very well. It's very dry. organized very well. It's very dry. organized very well. It's very dry. You're not telling a story. I mean, You're not telling a story. I mean, You're not telling a story. I mean, there you know, there's a lot of reasons there you know, there's a lot of reasons there you know, there's a lot of reasons why. Well, you don't even have tag why. Well, you don't even have tag why. Well, you don't even have tag manager loaded. So, Google's kind of manager loaded. So, Google's kind of manager loaded. So, Google's kind of like in the dark. They don't really like in the dark. They don't really like in the dark. They don't really know. You know, you got seven know. You know, you got seven know. You know, you got seven opportunities. Well, if you give me opportunities. Well, if you give me opportunities. Well, if you give me seven, I'm gonna pick zero. But if you seven, I'm gonna pick zero. But if you seven, I'm gonna pick zero. But if you give me one or two, I'll I'll probably give me one or two, I'll I'll probably give me one or two, I'll I'll probably pick one or the other. Very simple. And pick one or the other. Very simple. And pick one or the other. Very simple. And and don't put give on that landing page. and don't put give on that landing page. and don't put give on that landing page. Hey, welcome to our church. Give. Hey, welcome to our church. Give. Hey, welcome to our church. Give. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] Don't do that. That's an insider. That's Don't do that. That's an insider. That's Don't do that. That's an insider. That's for the 99, right? for the 99, right? for the 99, right? >> That can be that can be in your bottom >> That can be that can be in your bottom >> That can be that can be in your bottom menu and you can make it the biggest menu and you can make it the biggest menu and you can make it the biggest button you want. Just put it at the button you want. Just put it at the button you want. Just put it at the bottom of the page rather than the top bottom of the page rather than the top bottom of the page rather than the top of the page. of the page. of the page. >> Yeah. And I see I I I but you know >> Yeah. And I see I I I but you know >> Yeah. And I see I I I but you know giving is an act of worship which is a giving is an act of worship which is a giving is an act of worship which is a disciplehip thing. Yes. But our goal disciplehip thing. Yes. But our goal disciplehip thing. Yes. But our goal isn't to get them to give. Our goal is isn't to get them to give. Our goal is isn't to get them to give. Our goal is to get them to click and engage so that to get them to click and engage so that to get them to click and engage so that they show up. Is that if you think about they show up. Is that if you think about they show up. Is that if you think about a funnel the very very bottom of the a funnel the very very bottom of the a funnel the very very bottom of the funnel at the very very very very bottom funnel at the very very very very bottom funnel at the very very very very bottom of the funnel is if they're not a of the funnel is if they're not a of the funnel is if they're not a follower of Jesus, we want them to have follower of Jesus, we want them to have follower of Jesus, we want them to have said yes and now they're on the said yes and now they're on the said yes and now they're on the disciplehip journey. That's way further disciplehip journey. That's way further disciplehip journey. That's way further down the funnel. We're way up here down the funnel. We're way up here down the funnel. We're way up here towards the top of the funnel to say towards the top of the funnel to say towards the top of the funnel to say we're trying to gain lots of awareness we're trying to gain lots of awareness we're trying to gain lots of awareness about your church to get some people to about your church to get some people to about your church to get some people to click. You just got some clicks. Now click. You just got some clicks. Now click. You just got some clicks. Now they're on their website right there.

they're on their website right there. they're on their website right there. They're determining, do I want to take They're determining, do I want to take They're determining, do I want to take the next step and actually show up, the next step and actually show up, the next step and actually show up, right? And that's a big hurdle for a lot right? And that's a big hurdle for a lot right? And that's a big hurdle for a lot of people because the website is going of people because the website is going of people because the website is going to inform the website's no longer, we to inform the website's no longer, we to inform the website's no longer, we said this earlier, it's not the front said this earlier, it's not the front said this earlier, it's not the front porch, it's not the driveway. Um, a guy porch, it's not the driveway. Um, a guy porch, it's not the driveway. Um, a guy named Josh who's a coach says it's the named Josh who's a coach says it's the named Josh who's a coach says it's the foyer. I think it's actually the living foyer. I think it's actually the living foyer. I think it's actually the living room. Our website is now like the living room. Our website is now like the living room. Our website is now like the living room or the foyer of our church. They're room or the foyer of our church. They're room or the foyer of our church. They're inside the they're inside of our house. inside the they're inside of our house. inside the they're inside of our house. They can see, they can watch a pastor, They can see, they can watch a pastor, They can see, they can watch a pastor, they can engage with you, they can crawl they can engage with you, they can crawl they can engage with you, they can crawl all kinds of stuff on your website. Now, all kinds of stuff on your website. Now, all kinds of stuff on your website. Now, the goal is to get them into the kitchen the goal is to get them into the kitchen the goal is to get them into the kitchen table, which is we call that weekend table, which is we call that weekend table, which is we call that weekend worship. We want them sitting at the worship. We want them sitting at the worship. We want them sitting at the table, engage with us in worship. That's table, engage with us in worship. That's table, engage with us in worship. That's the ultimate because at that point, they the ultimate because at that point, they the ultimate because at that point, they can hear the gospel and then they're on can hear the gospel and then they're on can hear the gospel and then they're on their way. But a lot of times it just their way. But a lot of times it just their way. But a lot of times it just falls flat or it dies on that landing falls flat or it dies on that landing falls flat or it dies on that landing page on the website. And by the way, page on the website. And by the way, page on the website. And by the way, it's just not that landing page. It's it's just not that landing page. It's it's just not that landing page. It's the rest of the website. the rest of the website. the rest of the website. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Cuz they're going to start clicking >> Cuz they're going to start clicking >> Cuz they're going to start clicking around and go, do I like what these guys around and go, do I like what these guys around and go, do I like what these guys I have, you know, three little kids, I have, you know, three little kids, I have, you know, three little kids, maybe. Do I do they offer great stuff maybe. Do I do they offer great stuff maybe. Do I do they offer great stuff for my kids or are my kids going to be for my kids or are my kids going to be for my kids or are my kids going to be bored? I don't want to be the guy who bored? I don't want to be the guy who bored? I don't want to be the guy who says, "Mom, dad, do we have to go back says, "Mom, dad, do we have to go back says, "Mom, dad, do we have to go back to that church? It was boring." You to that church? It was boring." You to that church? It was boring." You they're never coming back if that's what they're never coming back if that's what they're never coming back if that's what happens. Right.

happens. Right. happens. Right. >> Yeah. And so you want to have a website >> Yeah. And so you want to have a website >> Yeah. And so you want to have a website experience that absolutely matches experience that absolutely matches experience that absolutely matches what's going to take place in person, what's going to take place in person, what's going to take place in person, but that website experience has to be but that website experience has to be but that website experience has to be really engaging. And you just got to really engaging. And you just got to really engaging. And you just got to think through it's a strategy. You just think through it's a strategy. You just think through it's a strategy. You just got to think through it. Um you've we got to think through it. Um you've we got to think through it. Um you've we well we have by default we talk a lot well we have by default we talk a lot well we have by default we talk a lot about Google. Um but let's not let's not about Google. Um but let's not let's not about Google. Um but let's not let's not ignore meta. Let's talk a little bit. ignore meta. Let's talk a little bit. ignore meta. Let's talk a little bit. You you know talked about you know a You you know talked about you know a You you know talked about you know a women's event. Um, when is meta women's event. Um, when is meta women's event. Um, when is meta advertising actually the right call for advertising actually the right call for advertising actually the right call for a church? What, you know, I don't I a church? What, you know, I don't I a church? What, you know, I don't I don't want to give the impression that don't want to give the impression that don't want to give the impression that meta is bad and it never works. Um, when meta is bad and it never works. Um, when meta is bad and it never works. Um, when should a church when should a church should a church when should a church should a church when should a church employ meta advertising in their in employ meta advertising in their in employ meta advertising in their in their plan? their plan? their plan? >> Um, well, I I mean, I think it's when >> Um, well, I I mean, I think it's when >> Um, well, I I mean, I think it's when it's you you want to build messaging, it's you you want to build messaging, it's you you want to build messaging, brand awareness. It's it's great. You brand awareness. It's it's great. You brand awareness. It's it's great. You can you can have really solid videos can you can have really solid videos can you can have really solid videos that showcase you you probably put that that showcase you you probably put that that showcase you you probably put that on on on meta now, right? You're on on on meta now, right? You're on on on meta now, right? You're constantly posting your your content on constantly posting your your content on constantly posting your your content on Meta for engagement, right? That that's Meta for engagement, right? That that's Meta for engagement, right? That that's really great. If you're going to spend really great. If you're going to spend really great. If you're going to spend some money in Meta, specifically some money in Meta, specifically some money in Meta, specifically Facebook, then maybe it is something Facebook, then maybe it is something Facebook, then maybe it is something like a more women focused event. And if like a more women focused event. And if like a more women focused event. And if you're doing a car show, probably not you're doing a car show, probably not you're doing a car show, probably not the right platform. Unless unless you the right platform. Unless unless you the right platform. Unless unless you want to like, "Hey ladies, we have want to like, "Hey ladies, we have want to like, "Hey ladies, we have something for your men. A car show, you something for your men. A car show, you something for your men. A car show, you know, click here to learn and bring him know, click here to learn and bring him know, click here to learn and bring him to the car show. He'll he'll love you to the car show. He'll he'll love you to the car show. He'll he'll love you for the whole week, you know, kind of a for the whole week, you know, kind of a for the whole week, you know, kind of a thing, right? I mean, you got to have thing, right? I mean, you got to have thing, right? I mean, you got to have messaging that's going to focus on messaging that's going to focus on messaging that's going to focus on reaching women because that's who's

reaching women because that's who's reaching women because that's who's mostly engaging mostly engaging mostly engaging in Facebook and in Instagram. So to me in Facebook and in Instagram. So to me in Facebook and in Instagram. So to me the the the focus would be on those the the the focus would be on those the the the focus would be on those kinds of highlevel events or maybe some kinds of highlevel events or maybe some kinds of highlevel events or maybe some brand awareness about our messaging. You brand awareness about our messaging. You brand awareness about our messaging. You know I we always do sermon clips. You know I we always do sermon clips. You know I we always do sermon clips. You know we were always telling churches know we were always telling churches know we were always telling churches they do them these sermon clips. Great. they do them these sermon clips. Great. they do them these sermon clips. Great. You could put them out there on You could put them out there on You could put them out there on Facebook. Now do you want to boost them? Facebook. Now do you want to boost them? Facebook. Now do you want to boost them? I don't know. Bart, you could probably I don't know. Bart, you could probably I don't know. Bart, you could probably speak into what's the, you know, do we speak into what's the, you know, do we speak into what's the, you know, do we want to spend money boosting something want to spend money boosting something want to spend money boosting something or do we want to run a a, you know, a a or do we want to run a a, you know, a a or do we want to run a a, you know, a a campaign that's going to be exclusive to campaign that's going to be exclusive to campaign that's going to be exclusive to reaching the whole area and driving reaching the whole area and driving reaching the whole area and driving tricks? tricks? tricks? >> Yeah, I I think, you know, I'm going to >> Yeah, I I think, you know, I'm going to >> Yeah, I I think, you know, I'm going to speak anecdotally because it's been so speak anecdotally because it's been so speak anecdotally because it's been so long since I boosted anything, okay? long since I boosted anything, okay? long since I boosted anything, okay? Because I stopped boosting stuff a long Because I stopped boosting stuff a long Because I stopped boosting stuff a long time ago and started building ads. Um time ago and started building ads. Um time ago and started building ads. Um the the understanding and the experience the the understanding and the experience the the understanding and the experience that I've had is that boosting a post or that I've had is that boosting a post or that I've had is that boosting a post or boosting content that you're posting boosting content that you're posting boosting content that you're posting organically can really be helpful in organically can really be helpful in organically can really be helpful in terms of driving engagement for that terms of driving engagement for that terms of driving engagement for that piece of content and potentially even piece of content and potentially even piece of content and potentially even increasing followers to your social increasing followers to your social increasing followers to your social platform. So boosting something on uh platform. So boosting something on uh platform. So boosting something on uh Instagram, boosting something on Instagram, boosting something on Instagram, boosting something on Facebook will increase the engagement Facebook will increase the engagement Facebook will increase the engagement and it'll get more subscribers, more and it'll get more subscribers, more and it'll get more subscribers, more likes, right? If you want more likes and likes, right? If you want more likes and likes, right? If you want more likes and you want more followers, that's the way you want more followers, that's the way you want more followers, that's the way to do it. Uh if you want people to click to do it. Uh if you want people to click to do it. Uh if you want people to click on something and take action, running an on something and take action, running an on something and take action, running an ad is going to be far more effective. Um ad is going to be far more effective. Um ad is going to be far more effective. Um it's just a better Here's another

it's just a better Here's another it's just a better Here's another example. Uh you can boost content on example. Uh you can boost content on example. Uh you can boost content on your YouTube channel. Boosting content your YouTube channel. Boosting content your YouTube channel. Boosting content on your YouTube channel will increase on your YouTube channel will increase on your YouTube channel will increase the the the watches, the amount of time the the the watches, the amount of time the the the watches, the amount of time watched, the engagement, and the number watched, the engagement, and the number watched, the engagement, and the number of subscribers to your channel. But I of subscribers to your channel. But I of subscribers to your channel. But I can almost guarantee you it will not can almost guarantee you it will not can almost guarantee you it will not drive anyone to your website to check drive anyone to your website to check drive anyone to your website to check out your church. But you can run ads in out your church. But you can run ads in out your church. But you can run ads in the YouTube platform that actually drive the YouTube platform that actually drive the YouTube platform that actually drive traffic to your website. Probably not a traffic to your website. Probably not a traffic to your website. Probably not a lot of traffic. That's probably the lot of traffic. That's probably the lot of traffic. That's probably the least effective platform for driving least effective platform for driving least effective platform for driving website traffic, but website traffic, but website traffic, but >> it's not a great target audience. >> it's not a great target audience. >> it's not a great target audience. >> Yeah. But it's a different but it's a >> Yeah. But it's a different but it's a >> Yeah. But it's a different but it's a different platform. Um, you know, I different platform. Um, you know, I different platform. Um, you know, I would say this again is only through would say this again is only through would say this again is only through looking at experiences that I've had looking at experiences that I've had looking at experiences that I've had with different churches that I've worked with different churches that I've worked with different churches that I've worked with. I think that meta campaigns tend with. I think that meta campaigns tend with. I think that meta campaigns tend to work better in small to midsize to work better in small to midsize to work better in small to midsize communities rather than larger cities communities rather than larger cities communities rather than larger cities and urban centers. Um, when you're in a and urban centers. Um, when you're in a and urban centers. Um, when you're in a smaller community, word of mouth smaller community, word of mouth smaller community, word of mouth marketing is really, really huge. marketing is really, really huge. marketing is really, really huge. >> Yeah. And when you're in a smaller >> Yeah. And when you're in a smaller >> Yeah. And when you're in a smaller community and the vast majority of the community and the vast majority of the community and the vast majority of the women in your community are on Meta, women in your community are on Meta, women in your community are on Meta, there's the greatest way of getting word there's the greatest way of getting word there's the greatest way of getting word of mouth out there because when all the of mouth out there because when all the of mouth out there because when all the women in your community know what's women in your community know what's women in your community know what's going on, everybody know what's going going on, everybody know what's going going on, everybody know what's going knows what's going on. So if you're in a knows what's going on. So if you're in a knows what's going on. So if you're in a town of 5,000 or 15,000 or 35,000 town of 5,000 or 15,000 or 35,000 town of 5,000 or 15,000 or 35,000 people, I think that the that Facebook people, I think that the that Facebook people, I think that the that Facebook is a great uh partner to word of mouth is a great uh partner to word of mouth is a great uh partner to word of mouth marketing. If you're in an urban center marketing. If you're in an urban center marketing. If you're in an urban center like a Dallas or a Chicago or a New York like a Dallas or a Chicago or a New York like a Dallas or a Chicago or a New York or San Francisco, I don't know that meta

or San Francisco, I don't know that meta or San Francisco, I don't know that meta advertising is is typically on a broad advertising is is typically on a broad advertising is is typically on a broad scale going to help you so much. Now, scale going to help you so much. Now, scale going to help you so much. Now, working with churches in larger cities, working with churches in larger cities, working with churches in larger cities, when we run big scale campaigns such as when we run big scale campaigns such as when we run big scale campaigns such as a Christmas campaign or an Easter a Christmas campaign or an Easter a Christmas campaign or an Easter campaign at the time that you and I that campaign at the time that you and I that campaign at the time that you and I that the time that this is this episode is is the time that this is this episode is is the time that this is this episode is is released, we're in deep in the throws of released, we're in deep in the throws of released, we're in deep in the throws of planning Easter marketing campaigns for planning Easter marketing campaigns for planning Easter marketing campaigns for churches this spring. And we'll be churches this spring. And we'll be churches this spring. And we'll be running some large-scale ad campaigns running some large-scale ad campaigns running some large-scale ad campaigns for churches in all platforms, Facebook, for churches in all platforms, Facebook, for churches in all platforms, Facebook, Instagram, uh Google, and even some in Instagram, uh Google, and even some in Instagram, uh Google, and even some in YouTube. And the goal there is everyone YouTube. And the goal there is everyone YouTube. And the goal there is everyone gets an invitation to join the life gets an invitation to join the life gets an invitation to join the life raft, right? Like we don't want to leave raft, right? Like we don't want to leave raft, right? Like we don't want to leave anybody out. If you only target Google, anybody out. If you only target Google, anybody out. If you only target Google, then there are going to be some people then there are going to be some people then there are going to be some people that probably don't see your ads. If you that probably don't see your ads. If you that probably don't see your ads. If you only target the meta platforms, there's only target the meta platforms, there's only target the meta platforms, there's definitely going to be a lot of people definitely going to be a lot of people definitely going to be a lot of people in your community that don't see your in your community that don't see your in your community that don't see your ads. If you do both, you're hitting ads. If you do both, you're hitting ads. If you do both, you're hitting everybody from 18 to 85, men and women, everybody from 18 to 85, men and women, everybody from 18 to 85, men and women, and uh you have a much better chance of and uh you have a much better chance of and uh you have a much better chance of making sure that everybody knows about making sure that everybody knows about making sure that everybody knows about what you're offering to your community.

what you're offering to your community. what you're offering to your community. >> Yeah. And and and I think that you want >> Yeah. And and and I think that you want >> Yeah. And and and I think that you want to have a good strategy. Um and we're to have a good strategy. Um and we're to have a good strategy. Um and we're going to talk about some like going to talk about some like going to talk about some like stewardship stuff, like what what should stewardship stuff, like what what should stewardship stuff, like what what should you do next, but you really want to have you do next, but you really want to have you do next, but you really want to have like I I've never heard of a church say, like I I've never heard of a church say, like I I've never heard of a church say, you know, we're we're a aging church. you know, we're we're a aging church. you know, we're we're a aging church. We're in our 70s and we're wanting to We're in our 70s and we're wanting to We're in our 70s and we're wanting to reach 75 year olds. reach 75 year olds. reach 75 year olds. that unless maybe in Florida there's that unless maybe in Florida there's that unless maybe in Florida there's there's certain communities in Florida there's certain communities in Florida there's certain communities in Florida [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] where they're retiring communities. where they're retiring communities. where they're retiring communities. Okay, we'll set that aside. Most of the Okay, we'll set that aside. Most of the Okay, we'll set that aside. Most of the country is trying to reach younger country is trying to reach younger country is trying to reach younger families like right, you're trying to families like right, you're trying to families like right, you're trying to reach younger families. So, you you want reach younger families. So, you you want reach younger families. So, you you want to be on on on platforms that are going to be on on on platforms that are going to be on on on platforms that are going to reach these younger families. I will to reach these younger families. I will to reach these younger families. I will say this, I usually tell a church this say this, I usually tell a church this say this, I usually tell a church this kind of strategy as we talk about maybe kind of strategy as we talk about maybe kind of strategy as we talk about maybe some how to be a better steward is some how to be a better steward is some how to be a better steward is usually you have a budget, right? usually you have a budget, right? usually you have a budget, right? Anybody who's hearing my voice, you Anybody who's hearing my voice, you Anybody who's hearing my voice, you you're thinking in your head right now, you're thinking in your head right now, you're thinking in your head right now, okay, yeah, this is kind of my budget. okay, yeah, this is kind of my budget. okay, yeah, this is kind of my budget. If you don't go, well, I have a budget. If you don't go, well, I have a budget. If you don't go, well, I have a budget. You don't know what it is, go ask or or You don't know what it is, go ask or or You don't know what it is, go ask or or pull pull up the your your overall pull pull up the your your overall pull pull up the your your overall church, your communications budget, church, your communications budget, church, your communications budget, figure out how much do I have for figure out how much do I have for figure out how much do I have for digital advertising and then build a digital advertising and then build a digital advertising and then build a strategy. So, one of the things that I strategy. So, one of the things that I strategy. So, one of the things that I know that you talk about this all the know that you talk about this all the know that you talk about this all the time, Bart, is um I love Pmax ads for time, Bart, is um I love Pmax ads for time, Bart, is um I love Pmax ads for kind of a evergreen, always running ad kind of a evergreen, always running ad kind of a evergreen, always running ad campaign that never stops. You don't campaign that never stops. You don't campaign that never stops. You don't start it and stop. You just let it run.

start it and stop. You just let it run. start it and stop. You just let it run. Now, you can swap out stuff a as the Now, you can swap out stuff a as the Now, you can swap out stuff a as the year goes on, but you always want it to year goes on, but you always want it to year goes on, but you always want it to run because Google's built in such a way run because Google's built in such a way run because Google's built in such a way when you have all of the dials tuned in. when you have all of the dials tuned in. when you have all of the dials tuned in. You got your tag manager working right, You got your tag manager working right, You got your tag manager working right, analytics are working right, you got the analytics are working right, you got the analytics are working right, you got the landing pages that's really honed in, landing pages that's really honed in, landing pages that's really honed in, this thing will will produce. You don't this thing will will produce. You don't this thing will will produce. You don't ever want to stop it. But you don't have ever want to stop it. But you don't have ever want to stop it. But you don't have to spend tons of money. But you know, to spend tons of money. But you know, to spend tons of money. But you know, you can talk about the budget, $100, you can talk about the budget, $100, you can talk about the budget, $100, $200, $300 a month kind of a thing that $200, $300 a month kind of a thing that $200, $300 a month kind of a thing that never stops from a evergreen type of never stops from a evergreen type of never stops from a evergreen type of thing for Pmax. Awesome. And then you thing for Pmax. Awesome. And then you thing for Pmax. Awesome. And then you got your special kinds of things. And got your special kinds of things. And got your special kinds of things. And here's some information. Here's just here's some information. Here's just here's some information. Here's just some some nuggets of truth. We always some some nuggets of truth. We always some some nuggets of truth. We always run Christmas ads. We always run Easter run Christmas ads. We always run Easter run Christmas ads. We always run Easter ads because those are the two biggest ads because those are the two biggest ads because those are the two biggest holiday not call two biggest events of holiday not call two biggest events of holiday not call two biggest events of our Christian faith, right? So we we our Christian faith, right? So we we our Christian faith, right? So we we always promote Christmas and Easter, but always promote Christmas and Easter, but always promote Christmas and Easter, but guess what? Every other church is also guess what? Every other church is also guess what? Every other church is also promoting Christmas and Easter. So you promoting Christmas and Easter. So you promoting Christmas and Easter. So you kind of have to do it, right? And a lot kind of have to do it, right? And a lot kind of have to do it, right? And a lot of people will come to church if of people will come to church if of people will come to church if invited. And so you got to do it. But invited. And so you got to do it. But invited. And so you got to do it. But here's the deal. There's other things here's the deal. There's other things here's the deal. There's other things going on in your church. And this is the going on in your church. And this is the going on in your church. And this is the question I ask. What's that other thing question I ask. What's that other thing question I ask. What's that other thing that you guys are doing? Maybe you do a that you guys are doing? Maybe you do a that you guys are doing? Maybe you do a fall kickoff. Maybe you've got some kind fall kickoff. Maybe you've got some kind fall kickoff. Maybe you've got some kind of a women's conference that's like in of a women's conference that's like in of a women's conference that's like in June when nobody else is doing anything.

June when nobody else is doing anything. June when nobody else is doing anything. Maybe you have an event, a marriage Maybe you have an event, a marriage Maybe you have an event, a marriage series coming up in in February where a series coming up in in February where a series coming up in in February where a lot of other churches are not lot of other churches are not lot of other churches are not advertising. Those are the times that advertising. Those are the times that advertising. Those are the times that you'd want to run that. Hey, let's run a you'd want to run that. Hey, let's run a you'd want to run that. Hey, let's run a Meta campaign and a Google campaign Meta campaign and a Google campaign Meta campaign and a Google campaign because we want to reach everybody, because we want to reach everybody, because we want to reach everybody, invite everybody to this event. If it's invite everybody to this event. If it's invite everybody to this event. If it's a women's conference, heavy Facebook a women's conference, heavy Facebook a women's conference, heavy Facebook obviously, but if there's something obviously, but if there's something obviously, but if there's something going on that you uh you know is for the going on that you uh you know is for the going on that you uh you know is for the whole community that no other church is whole community that no other church is whole community that no other church is doing, those are the those are the doing, those are the those are the doing, those are the those are the moments and those are the times usually moments and those are the times usually moments and those are the times usually maybe a big anniversary and have a huge maybe a big anniversary and have a huge maybe a big anniversary and have a huge picnic and we're going to have bounce picnic and we're going to have bounce picnic and we're going to have bounce houses and we're going to have a houses and we're going to have a houses and we're going to have a carnival and a petting zoo. Awesome. carnival and a petting zoo. Awesome. carnival and a petting zoo. Awesome. You're when are you doing that? We're You're when are you doing that? We're You're when are you doing that? We're doing that in September. Perfect. doing that in September. Perfect. doing that in September. Perfect. Advertise that. put your eggs in that Advertise that. put your eggs in that Advertise that. put your eggs in that one because nobody else is probably one because nobody else is probably one because nobody else is probably advertising in the church world for some advertising in the church world for some advertising in the church world for some kind of an event. kind of an event. kind of an event. >> Yeah, we've man, we've covered a lot of >> Yeah, we've man, we've covered a lot of >> Yeah, we've man, we've covered a lot of things. There are a few other bullet things. There are a few other bullet things. There are a few other bullet points on here that I wanted to get to points on here that I wanted to get to points on here that I wanted to get to that I think we'll just put off to that I think we'll just put off to that I think we'll just put off to another uh to another episode for another uh to another episode for another uh to another episode for another day, another time, but I want to another day, another time, but I want to another day, another time, but I want to kind of land the plane and tie a little kind of land the plane and tie a little kind of land the plane and tie a little bow on on this particular episode. Just bow on on this particular episode. Just bow on on this particular episode. Just a couple of points of emphasis. You a couple of points of emphasis. You a couple of points of emphasis. You talked a lot about Google Performance talked a lot about Google Performance talked a lot about Google Performance Max ads. Um I think I think you're Max ads. Um I think I think you're Max ads. Um I think I think you're right. I think to be a good steward of right. I think to be a good steward of right. I think to be a good steward of your resources. Google Performance Max your resources. Google Performance Max your resources. Google Performance Max ads are one of the best ad types that ads are one of the best ad types that ads are one of the best ad types that we're seeing churches utilize. They're we're seeing churches utilize. They're we're seeing churches utilize. They're not specifically great for one-off not specifically great for one-off not specifically great for one-off events, but for evergreen ongoing uh ad events, but for evergreen ongoing uh ad events, but for evergreen ongoing uh ad an ad type, they are really good. And an ad type, they are really good. And an ad type, they are really good. And when put together with a good Google Tag when put together with a good Google Tag when put together with a good Google Tag Manager strategy, um I think they can Manager strategy, um I think they can Manager strategy, um I think they can really produce really good results. On

really produce really good results. On really produce really good results. On the flip side, Jason, one of the things the flip side, Jason, one of the things the flip side, Jason, one of the things that we we've talked about a lot is the that we we've talked about a lot is the that we we've talked about a lot is the quality of website, the quality of quality of website, the quality of quality of website, the quality of landing page. um you know what whatever landing page. um you know what whatever landing page. um you know what whatever ad types you're running, if you don't ad types you're running, if you don't ad types you're running, if you don't have a good landing page or a good have a good landing page or a good have a good landing page or a good website with a good website strategy to website with a good website strategy to website with a good website strategy to drive your traffic to, it can really drive your traffic to, it can really drive your traffic to, it can really adversely affect the results of your adversely affect the results of your adversely affect the results of your promotions and your marketing campaign. promotions and your marketing campaign. promotions and your marketing campaign. Um so, you know, rather than kind of Um so, you know, rather than kind of Um so, you know, rather than kind of camping out on this any further, do you camping out on this any further, do you camping out on this any further, do you have any real parting shots uh as it have any real parting shots uh as it have any real parting shots uh as it relates to websites? Um, anything relates to websites? Um, anything relates to websites? Um, anything anything else that you wanted to add anything else that you wanted to add anything else that you wanted to add there? there? there? >> Yeah. Well, uh, first thing, get some >> Yeah. Well, uh, first thing, get some >> Yeah. Well, uh, first thing, get some get some help and some knowledge. You get some help and some knowledge. You get some help and some knowledge. You know, h have somebody speak into your know, h have somebody speak into your know, h have somebody speak into your website on your behalf. And and we do website on your behalf. And and we do website on your behalf. And and we do that. We do that a lot. We'll run a that. We do that a lot. We'll run a that. We do that a lot. We'll run a website audit of a church that's website audit of a church that's website audit of a church that's complimentary. You just have to schedule complimentary. You just have to schedule complimentary. You just have to schedule a call with with myself or Bart or one a call with with myself or Bart or one a call with with myself or Bart or one of our coaches and and we'll run an of our coaches and and we'll run an of our coaches and and we'll run an audit of your website and we'll tell you audit of your website and we'll tell you audit of your website and we'll tell you the good, the bad, and the ugly. Mhm.

the good, the bad, and the ugly. Mhm. the good, the bad, and the ugly. Mhm. >> Because if you don't if you don't know, >> Because if you don't if you don't know, >> Because if you don't if you don't know, you're just not aware, how [snorts] are you're just not aware, how [snorts] are you're just not aware, how [snorts] are you ever going to have a a strategy to you ever going to have a a strategy to you ever going to have a a strategy to improve? So, knowledge and education is improve? So, knowledge and education is improve? So, knowledge and education is is half of the problem here, right? And is half of the problem here, right? And is half of the problem here, right? And we've got answers for you. And the other we've got answers for you. And the other we've got answers for you. And the other half is now let's roll up our sleeves half is now let's roll up our sleeves half is now let's roll up our sleeves and do something. That might be you do and do something. That might be you do and do something. That might be you do it on your own. That might be you hire it on your own. That might be you hire it on your own. That might be you hire somebody like us or another another somebody like us or another another somebody like us or another another group. Regardless, the goal is to have a group. Regardless, the goal is to have a group. Regardless, the goal is to have a strategic strategic strategic uh really wellbuilt, uh really wellbuilt, uh really wellbuilt, maintained, and and and organized maintained, and and and organized maintained, and and and organized website that actually moves the needle. website that actually moves the needle. website that actually moves the needle. Because if you're going to spend money Because if you're going to spend money Because if you're going to spend money on advertising, yet it's a kind of a on advertising, yet it's a kind of a on advertising, yet it's a kind of a cruddy experience, you are not being a cruddy experience, you are not being a cruddy experience, you are not being a good steward of the money that people good steward of the money that people good steward of the money that people from their hard-earned money their bank from their hard-earned money their bank from their hard-earned money their bank account gave to the church. They tithed account gave to the church. They tithed account gave to the church. They tithed and gave money to the church. You've and gave money to the church. You've and gave money to the church. You've been entrusted to spend that money. been entrusted to spend that money. been entrusted to spend that money. Well, I mean, you just said it earlier, Well, I mean, you just said it earlier, Well, I mean, you just said it earlier, Bart. A church says, "We want to spend Bart. A church says, "We want to spend Bart. A church says, "We want to spend money." You're going, "No, because just money." You're going, "No, because just money." You're going, "No, because just I mean, I'm speaking on behalf of Bart. I mean, I'm speaking on behalf of Bart. I mean, I'm speaking on behalf of Bart. We have to be good stewards of the We have to be good stewards of the We have to be good stewards of the dollars as well, right? So, if we see dollars as well, right? So, if we see dollars as well, right? So, if we see something and a church wants to spend something and a church wants to spend something and a church wants to spend money with us and we're going, "This money with us and we're going, "This money with us and we're going, "This looks awkward. I'm not taking your looks awkward. I'm not taking your looks awkward. I'm not taking your money." Uh-uh. We report to Jesus just money." Uh-uh. We report to Jesus just money." Uh-uh. We report to Jesus just like you do. [laughter] like you do. [laughter] like you do. [laughter] So, we we have to be good stewards. You So, we we have to be good stewards. You So, we we have to be good stewards. You have to be good steward. So, you have to be good steward. So, you have to be good steward. So, you definitely want to get educated, get definitely want to get educated, get definitely want to get educated, get organized, have us run an audit for you, organized, have us run an audit for you, organized, have us run an audit for you, and help you understand what you need to and help you understand what you need to and help you understand what you need to do so that you can confidently spend do so that you can confidently spend do so that you can confidently spend money and start to see more people money and start to see more people money and start to see more people walking through the doors of your

walking through the doors of your walking through the doors of your church. That's the goal. church. That's the goal. church. That's the goal. >> Yeah, absolutely. Appreciate that. Yeah. >> Yeah, absolutely. Appreciate that. Yeah. >> Yeah, absolutely. Appreciate that. Yeah. And like I said, we we we can set you up And like I said, we we we can set you up And like I said, we we we can set you up with a uh um a one-on-one call with one with a uh um a one-on-one call with one with a uh um a one-on-one call with one of our coaches who will just kind of of our coaches who will just kind of of our coaches who will just kind of walk through your website and do a basic walk through your website and do a basic walk through your website and do a basic audit for you. We do have a more audit for you. We do have a more audit for you. We do have a more in-depth audit uh that we can do. uh in-depth audit uh that we can do. uh in-depth audit uh that we can do. uh that's more of a paid service that can that's more of a paid service that can that's more of a paid service that can do a little bit more SEO and generative do a little bit more SEO and generative do a little bit more SEO and generative engine optimization. Uh there's no engine optimization. Uh there's no engine optimization. Uh there's no obligation to do that. We just want to obligation to do that. We just want to obligation to do that. We just want to be helpful for you. Uh we're confident be helpful for you. Uh we're confident be helpful for you. Uh we're confident that if we can help you, uh then you can that if we can help you, uh then you can that if we can help you, uh then you can better manage your resources when it better manage your resources when it better manage your resources when it comes to digital marketing and digital comes to digital marketing and digital comes to digital marketing and digital outreach and ultimately God's kingdom outreach and ultimately God's kingdom outreach and ultimately God's kingdom will be expanded and your community will will be expanded and your community will will be expanded and your community will be blessed. Go click over to be blessed. Go click over to be blessed. Go click over to missionalmarketing.com missionalmarketing.com missionalmarketing.com and you can uh schedule a meeting. and you can uh schedule a meeting. and you can uh schedule a meeting. There's a a link on there uh to get in There's a a link on there uh to get in There's a a link on there uh to get in touch with us. And I think your face is touch with us. And I think your face is touch with us. And I think your face is on there. People can actually schedule a on there. People can actually schedule a on there. People can actually schedule a meeting with you. They might not get meeting with you. They might not get meeting with you. They might not get you. They can try you. They can try you. They can try >> face. >> face. >> face. >> Yeah. Get past the face that the that >> Yeah. Get past the face that the that >> Yeah. Get past the face that the that Yeah. Just, you know, it's a good face, Yeah. Just, you know, it's a good face, Yeah. Just, you know, it's a good face, Jason. Uh yeah. Uh yeah, they might not Jason. Uh yeah. Uh yeah, they might not Jason. Uh yeah. Uh yeah, they might not get you. They might click on your face get you. They might click on your face get you. They might click on your face and set something up. They might get one and set something up. They might get one and set something up. They might get one of our other coaches, but man, we've got of our other coaches, but man, we've got of our other coaches, but man, we've got some really talented coaches on our team some really talented coaches on our team some really talented coaches on our team that can can help out with that, and we that can can help out with that, and we that can can help out with that, and we would love to do that. Um hey, that's would love to do that. Um hey, that's would love to do that. Um hey, that's all we've got for the 177th episode of all we've got for the 177th episode of all we've got for the 177th episode of the Missional Marketing Podcast. If you the Missional Marketing Podcast. If you the Missional Marketing Podcast. If you made it all the way here to the end, made it all the way here to the end, made it all the way here to the end, thanks for sticking with us. We just thanks for sticking with us. We just thanks for sticking with us. We just want to remind you to subscribe wherever want to remind you to subscribe wherever want to remind you to subscribe wherever you listen to your favorite podcast so you listen to your favorite podcast so you listen to your favorite podcast so that you don't miss any future episodes.

that you don't miss any future episodes. that you don't miss any future episodes. And if you think that this episode will And if you think that this episode will And if you think that this episode will be helpful for someone that you know, be helpful for someone that you know, be helpful for someone that you know, please send them a link, [music] share please send them a link, [music] share please send them a link, [music] share the love. God bless and we'll see you the love. God bless and we'll see you the love. God bless and we'll see you next time. >> [music] >> [music] [bell]