5 Characteristics of a Great Church Comms Director | Tika Stock

I will say I don't think that, you know, I will say I don't think that, you know, I don't think a communications needs to I don't think a communications needs to I don't think a communications needs to be the most creative person in the room, be the most creative person in the room, be the most creative person in the room, but they need to be able to know the but they need to be able to know the but they need to be able to know the vision or know where we're going and be vision or know where we're going and be vision or know where we're going and be able to let those who are being the able to let those who are being the able to let those who are being the creators to to do it. creators to to do it. creators to to do it. >> Welcome to episode number 187777. >> Welcome to episode number 187777. >> Welcome to episode number 187777. I thought I needed an echo and 187 of I thought I needed an echo and 187 of I thought I needed an echo and 187 of the missional marketing podcast. Uh, the missional marketing podcast. Uh, the missional marketing podcast. Uh, we're Yeah, there's something something we're Yeah, there's something something we're Yeah, there's something something in the air today. I'm not really sure. in the air today. I'm not really sure. in the air today. I'm not really sure. We This is the second start of this We This is the second start of this We This is the second start of this podcast, but we're gonna go. You're both podcast, but we're gonna go. You're both podcast, but we're gonna go. You're both looking at me as if I'm going to start looking at me as if I'm going to start looking at me as if I'm going to start all over and I'm not. This is it. This all over and I'm not. This is it. This all over and I'm not. This is it. This is the real deal. So, welcome to the is the real deal. So, welcome to the is the real deal. So, welcome to the show. My name is Bart Blair. Uh, I get show. My name is Bart Blair. Uh, I get show. My name is Bart Blair. Uh, I get to be on the team at Missional Marketing to be on the team at Missional Marketing to be on the team at Missional Marketing and I get to be the co-host of this and I get to be the co-host of this and I get to be the co-host of this podcast. And it is my privilege to podcast. And it is my privilege to podcast. And it is my privilege to welcome you to this episode. Uh, we've welcome you to this episode. Uh, we've welcome you to this episode. Uh, we've been producing this podcast for over six been producing this podcast for over six been producing this podcast for over six years with a goal of helping churches years with a goal of helping churches years with a goal of helping churches grow by leveraging digital marketing and grow by leveraging digital marketing and grow by leveraging digital marketing and effective communication. Sometimes we effective communication. Sometimes we effective communication. Sometimes we talk about marketing, sometimes we talk talk about marketing, sometimes we talk talk about marketing, sometimes we talk about communications. Today we're going about communications. Today we're going about communications. Today we're going to talk about church communications. In to talk about church communications. In to talk about church communications. In fact, we have a very special guest and a fact, we have a very special guest and a fact, we have a very special guest and a very special episode for you today. Uh very special episode for you today. Uh very special episode for you today. Uh Jason, I'll ping things over to you and Jason, I'll ping things over to you and Jason, I'll ping things over to you and why don't you introduce Tika and you can why don't you introduce Tika and you can why don't you introduce Tika and you can get things rolling.

get things rolling. get things rolling. >> Well, thank you, Bart. Yeah, I'm pumped >> Well, thank you, Bart. Yeah, I'm pumped >> Well, thank you, Bart. Yeah, I'm pumped because uh this I this is something because uh this I this is something because uh this I this is something that's both close and near to and dear that's both close and near to and dear that's both close and near to and dear to my heart and Tika's heart. Uh so to my heart and Tika's heart. Uh so to my heart and Tika's heart. Uh so Tika's on our team. She's one of our Tika's on our team. She's one of our Tika's on our team. She's one of our best coaches when it comes to church best coaches when it comes to church best coaches when it comes to church communications. Some of you who are communications. Some of you who are communications. Some of you who are listening have worked with Tika and listening have worked with Tika and listening have worked with Tika and she's got a oh man a laundry list of she's got a oh man a laundry list of she's got a oh man a laundry list of talent and skills and she's been a comm talent and skills and she's been a comm talent and skills and she's been a comm director. She's worn a lot of hats in director. She's worn a lot of hats in director. She's worn a lot of hats in churches. We all do when we work at churches. We all do when we work at churches. We all do when we work at churches. And uh we're we're pumped to churches. And uh we're we're pumped to churches. And uh we're we're pumped to have her on the on the show today have her on the on the show today have her on the on the show today because we're going to go deeper into because we're going to go deeper into because we're going to go deeper into really what makes a great church really what makes a great church really what makes a great church communications director. And we we've communications director. And we we've communications director. And we we've both sat in that seat and you know we we both sat in that seat and you know we we both sat in that seat and you know we we learned all the stupid tax. We made all learned all the stupid tax. We made all learned all the stupid tax. We made all the mistakes and uh got to got to grow the mistakes and uh got to got to grow the mistakes and uh got to got to grow from it. So Tika, just for our audience from it. So Tika, just for our audience from it. So Tika, just for our audience sake, just share a little bit about you, sake, just share a little bit about you, sake, just share a little bit about you, your family, and your role. your family, and your role. your family, and your role. >> Yeah, I'm Tika. Um, I get the great >> Yeah, I'm Tika. Um, I get the great >> Yeah, I'm Tika. Um, I get the great opportunity to help churches here just opportunity to help churches here just opportunity to help churches here just get to get to get to be, you know, understand their be, you know, understand their be, you know, understand their potential. And so I just get to consult potential. And so I just get to consult potential. And so I just get to consult with them and just help communications with them and just help communications with them and just help communications directors grow. I uh live with my directors grow. I uh live with my directors grow. I uh live with my husband and my 2-year-old right outside husband and my 2-year-old right outside husband and my 2-year-old right outside of Philadelphia. So, uh, we live in the of Philadelphia. So, uh, we live in the of Philadelphia. So, uh, we live in the suburbs now. We used to live in suburbs now. We used to live in suburbs now. We used to live in Philadelphia and, um, now we're living Philadelphia and, um, now we're living Philadelphia and, um, now we're living the suburb life, which is a whole the suburb life, which is a whole the suburb life, which is a whole different ball game than city life. But different ball game than city life. But different ball game than city life. But when I was a comm's director, it was in when I was a comm's director, it was in when I was a comm's director, it was in Philadelphia. And so, I was a comms Philadelphia. And so, I was a comms Philadelphia. And so, I was a comms director for a church there for about director for a church there for about director for a church there for about seven years. And, uh, I had done comms seven years. And, uh, I had done comms seven years. And, uh, I had done comms before that, actually, in more of a

before that, actually, in more of a before that, actually, in more of a hospital setting. And, uh, so, a little hospital setting. And, uh, so, a little hospital setting. And, uh, so, a little bit different, but also you wear lots of bit different, but also you wear lots of bit different, but also you wear lots of different hats in all of the things. And different hats in all of the things. And different hats in all of the things. And so, yeah, that's kind of where I come so, yeah, that's kind of where I come so, yeah, that's kind of where I come from and what I get to do and I love it. from and what I get to do and I love it. from and what I get to do and I love it. >> Yeah, we love having her on our team. >> Yeah, we love having her on our team. >> Yeah, we love having her on our team. She jumped on jumped on our team. We She jumped on jumped on our team. We She jumped on jumped on our team. We were we were blessed to have Tika join were we were blessed to have Tika join were we were blessed to have Tika join us and um it's been fun to watch her us and um it's been fun to watch her us and um it's been fun to watch her just meet with and help churches grow just meet with and help churches grow just meet with and help churches grow and give them we're going to tap into and give them we're going to tap into and give them we're going to tap into this. Give them strategy. give them this. Give them strategy. give them this. Give them strategy. give them structure and and help navigate those structure and and help navigate those structure and and help navigate those waters because it doesn't matter if waters because it doesn't matter if waters because it doesn't matter if you're a you've been a comm director for you're a you've been a comm director for you're a you've been a comm director for 15 or 20 years or 15 or 20 days. We all 15 or 20 years or 15 or 20 days. We all 15 or 20 years or 15 or 20 days. We all need to learn. We all need to be working need to learn. We all need to be working need to learn. We all need to be working on our skill sets. We need to be working on our skill sets. We need to be working on our skill sets. We need to be working on our departments and our strategies on our departments and our strategies on our departments and our strategies and our tools and our team and that and our tools and our team and that and our tools and our team and that never ever stops. So Tika, let's just never ever stops. So Tika, let's just never ever stops. So Tika, let's just let's start with um some strategic let's start with um some strategic let's start with um some strategic things like big picture thinking. What things like big picture thinking. What things like big picture thinking. What are some nuggets that you would share are some nuggets that you would share are some nuggets that you would share to our people listening into this on you to our people listening into this on you to our people listening into this on you know becoming a good to great becoming a know becoming a good to great becoming a know becoming a good to great becoming a great comm's director strategically?

great comm's director strategically? great comm's director strategically? What what what goes through your mind? What what what goes through your mind? What what what goes through your mind? Yeah, this is actually something that um Yeah, this is actually something that um Yeah, this is actually something that um I probably had the hardest time as a I probably had the hardest time as a I probably had the hardest time as a commirector to do because you're in the commirector to do because you're in the commirector to do because you're in the weeds a lot of some of the the things. weeds a lot of some of the the things. weeds a lot of some of the the things. Um you're just kind of trying to get the Um you're just kind of trying to get the Um you're just kind of trying to get the task done, but truly a good comm's task done, but truly a good comm's task done, but truly a good comm's director is going to be, you know, kind director is going to be, you know, kind director is going to be, you know, kind of looking at the big picture. Um of looking at the big picture. Um of looking at the big picture. Um thinking of what the next step's going thinking of what the next step's going thinking of what the next step's going to be. One great example I always tell to be. One great example I always tell to be. One great example I always tell my church is I want you to look at all my church is I want you to look at all my church is I want you to look at all your events for the year and as you're your events for the year and as you're your events for the year and as you're looking at them the one that you're looking at them the one that you're looking at them the one that you're currently working on or promoting what's currently working on or promoting what's currently working on or promoting what's that next step what's that next entry that next step what's that next entry that next step what's that next entry point for someone how are we being point for someone how are we being point for someone how are we being strategic instead of just doing events strategic instead of just doing events strategic instead of just doing events for the sake of events how are we for the sake of events how are we for the sake of events how are we thinking more strategic of oh we have thinking more strategic of oh we have thinking more strategic of oh we have VBS now our next step is going to be VBS now our next step is going to be VBS now our next step is going to be maybe something for families now we have maybe something for families now we have maybe something for families now we have an event for families or we have a men's an event for families or we have a men's an event for families or we have a men's conference or women's conference for the conference or women's conference for the conference or women's conference for the parents to come to. How are we being parents to come to. How are we being parents to come to. How are we being strategic and making sure that our strategic and making sure that our strategic and making sure that our events are kind of in alignment with events are kind of in alignment with events are kind of in alignment with where our church is going, in alignment where our church is going, in alignment where our church is going, in alignment with your mission, in alignment with with your mission, in alignment with with your mission, in alignment with your vision, your disciplehip pathway, your vision, your disciplehip pathway, your vision, your disciplehip pathway, really thinking through all those all really thinking through all those all really thinking through all those all those steps. There can be a tendency to those steps. There can be a tendency to those steps. There can be a tendency to get so deep in the weeds in the week in get so deep in the weeds in the week in get so deep in the weeds in the week in week out stuff that you're marketing, week out stuff that you're marketing, week out stuff that you're marketing, promoting and communicating an event or promoting and communicating an event or promoting and communicating an event or a ministry or an activity and you lose a ministry or an activity and you lose a ministry or an activity and you lose sight of the fact that actually you have sight of the fact that actually you have sight of the fact that actually you have a an an overarching responsibility of a an an overarching responsibility of a an an overarching responsibility of communicating and marketing the church communicating and marketing the church communicating and marketing the church as a whole ministry, right? Because all as a whole ministry, right? Because all as a whole ministry, right? Because all these things need to be working

these things need to be working these things need to be working together. I think that's uh that's together. I think that's uh that's together. I think that's uh that's really insightful. In our last I think really insightful. In our last I think really insightful. In our last I think it was our last episode. It's been a few it was our last episode. It's been a few it was our last episode. It's been a few weeks. Jason actually highlighted this weeks. Jason actually highlighted this weeks. Jason actually highlighted this and Tikica, you and I talked about this, and Tikica, you and I talked about this, and Tikica, you and I talked about this, which is what sort of inspired us which is what sort of inspired us which is what sort of inspired us getting on this call. The last episode getting on this call. The last episode getting on this call. The last episode that we did was about church that we did was about church that we did was about church communications burnout and one of the communications burnout and one of the communications burnout and one of the comments that Jason made in that episode comments that Jason made in that episode comments that Jason made in that episode was that the church communications was that the church communications was that the church communications director or the person who sits in the director or the person who sits in the director or the person who sits in the communications seat is typically the communications seat is typically the communications seat is typically the only person that in the church who has only person that in the church who has only person that in the church who has their eyes on every single event that's their eyes on every single event that's their eyes on every single event that's on the calendar. And so it is a unique on the calendar. And so it is a unique on the calendar. And so it is a unique seat. And Tika and I were talking about seat. And Tika and I were talking about seat. And Tika and I were talking about that and she's like that is so very that and she's like that is so very that and she's like that is so very true. when we started brainstorming true. when we started brainstorming true. when we started brainstorming about different things and I was like oh about different things and I was like oh about different things and I was like oh we need we need to bring this to a we need we need to bring this to a we need we need to bring this to a podcast episode. So that's that's what podcast episode. So that's that's what podcast episode. So that's that's what we're doing today. Uh and just wanted to we're doing today. Uh and just wanted to we're doing today. Uh and just wanted to bring Tika on to share some of her bring Tika on to share some of her bring Tika on to share some of her insights there. So Tika highlighted the insights there. So Tika highlighted the insights there. So Tika highlighted the fact that one of the most important fact that one of the most important fact that one of the most important gifts or skills of a comm's director is gifts or skills of a comm's director is gifts or skills of a comm's director is being a strategic thinker. Big picture being a strategic thinker. Big picture being a strategic thinker. Big picture thinking. Jason, you had something you thinking. Jason, you had something you thinking. Jason, you had something you want to add there? want to add there? want to add there? >> Yeah. Yeah. Um so you just got me >> Yeah. Yeah. Um so you just got me >> Yeah. Yeah. Um so you just got me thinking. I love doing this stuff. Okay. thinking. I love doing this stuff. Okay. thinking. I love doing this stuff. Okay. So you have a working genius. If anybody So you have a working genius. If anybody So you have a working genius. If anybody knows what I'm talking about, Patrick knows what I'm talking about, Patrick knows what I'm talking about, Patrick Lencion, you should look this up. wrote Lencion, you should look this up. wrote Lencion, you should look this up. wrote a book called The Six Working Geniuses.

a book called The Six Working Geniuses. a book called The Six Working Geniuses. Okay, that's a little sidebar. That's a Okay, that's a little sidebar. That's a Okay, that's a little sidebar. That's a free nugget. Go get the book. Read the free nugget. Go get the book. Read the free nugget. Go get the book. Read the book. It's amazing. book. It's amazing. book. It's amazing. >> Not a free book, but it's a free nugget. >> Not a free book, but it's a free nugget. >> Not a free book, but it's a free nugget. >> Go get a free book. >> Go get a free book. >> Go get a free book. >> Not a free book, but a free nugget. Uh >> Not a free book, but a free nugget. Uh >> Not a free book, but a free nugget. Uh it'll tell you you have two working it'll tell you you have two working it'll tell you you have two working geniuses. Now, my working geniuses are geniuses. Now, my working geniuses are geniuses. Now, my working geniuses are different from Tika's working geniuses. different from Tika's working geniuses. different from Tika's working geniuses. Okay, we all have God's given us those, Okay, we all have God's given us those, Okay, we all have God's given us those, you know, skill sets. Um I'm not good at you know, skill sets. Um I'm not good at you know, skill sets. Um I'm not good at tenacity. I'm good at invention and tenacity. I'm good at invention and tenacity. I'm good at invention and wondering. But what t regardless of what wondering. But what t regardless of what wondering. But what t regardless of what your your working genius is, what Tikica your your working genius is, what Tikica your your working genius is, what Tikica is talking about strategically, is talking about strategically, is talking about strategically, everybody can do because you can sit everybody can do because you can sit everybody can do because you can sit down and look at the churchwide calendar down and look at the churchwide calendar down and look at the churchwide calendar and have conversations with your teams, and have conversations with your teams, and have conversations with your teams, you know, your your ministries. I call you know, your your ministries. I call you know, your your ministries. I call those your clients. go have meetings those your clients. go have meetings those your clients. go have meetings with them to understand what they're with them to understand what they're with them to understand what they're wanting to promote and you can get ahead wanting to promote and you can get ahead wanting to promote and you can get ahead instead of just always playing the you instead of just always playing the you instead of just always playing the you know the you're like a you're like a know the you're like a you're like a know the you're like a you're like a like a hamster on a wheel seem every like a hamster on a wheel seem every like a hamster on a wheel seem every week every day you know every week week every day you know every week week every day you know every week Sunday's coming you need to stop back Sunday's coming you need to stop back Sunday's coming you need to stop back sip go back up here to 30,000 feet and sip go back up here to 30,000 feet and sip go back up here to 30,000 feet and go what are we going to be doing this go what are we going to be doing this go what are we going to be doing this month next quarter next year what's that month next quarter next year what's that month next quarter next year what's that look like and I I can't tell you how look like and I I can't tell you how look like and I I can't tell you how many people don't have that ability they many people don't have that ability they many people don't have that ability they just don't do it they I'm so busy or I'm just don't do it they I'm so busy or I'm just don't do it they I'm so busy or I'm a part-timer I don't have the time.

a part-timer I don't have the time. a part-timer I don't have the time. That's just, you know, that's kind of an That's just, you know, that's kind of an That's just, you know, that's kind of an excuse. You have to you have to do that excuse. You have to you have to do that excuse. You have to you have to do that to stay organized. That's being to stay organized. That's being to stay organized. That's being strategic. What's another strategic strategic. What's another strategic strategic. What's another strategic thing that comms directors do to become thing that comms directors do to become thing that comms directors do to become a great comm director? a great comm director? a great comm director? >> That's a great question. I think even >> That's a great question. I think even >> That's a great question. I think even just understanding, just understanding, just understanding, you know, marketing plans or vision, you you know, marketing plans or vision, you you know, marketing plans or vision, you know, like understanding like, okay, know, like understanding like, okay, know, like understanding like, okay, we're understanding the vision passed we're understanding the vision passed we're understanding the vision passed down by the pastor and so how can we down by the pastor and so how can we down by the pastor and so how can we strategically strategically strategically >> kind of take this and weave it through >> kind of take this and weave it through >> kind of take this and weave it through our communication, whether it's how our communication, whether it's how our communication, whether it's how we're speaking or whether it's, you we're speaking or whether it's, you we're speaking or whether it's, you know, we're being really strategic about know, we're being really strategic about know, we're being really strategic about um we're going to be promoting a felt um we're going to be promoting a felt um we're going to be promoting a felt need series, so we're gonna think about, need series, so we're gonna think about, need series, so we're gonna think about, oh, this is coming up. Let's like slowly oh, this is coming up. Let's like slowly oh, this is coming up. Let's like slowly kind of drop some things so people are kind of drop some things so people are kind of drop some things so people are their hearts are prepared when this does their hearts are prepared when this does their hearts are prepared when this does drop. And you're thinking about those drop. And you're thinking about those drop. And you're thinking about those things and you're going through those things and you're going through those things and you're going through those things and you really are kind of things and you really are kind of things and you really are kind of stepping out of the, oh, I have to stepping out of the, oh, I have to stepping out of the, oh, I have to create a graphic. I have to make a create a graphic. I have to make a create a graphic. I have to make a social media post. You're really social media post. You're really social media post. You're really thinking, oh, this is like big picture.

thinking, oh, this is like big picture. thinking, oh, this is like big picture. How can I maybe promote this? Whether How can I maybe promote this? Whether How can I maybe promote this? Whether it's digitally or internally, you know, it's digitally or internally, you know, it's digitally or internally, you know, all of those things. Um really just all of those things. Um really just all of those things. Um really just remembering like the heart of church I remembering like the heart of church I remembering like the heart of church I think. think. think. >> Yeah. Going after the one and helping >> Yeah. Going after the one and helping >> Yeah. Going after the one and helping the 99. Yeah. I've got one. I've got the 99. Yeah. I've got one. I've got the 99. Yeah. I've got one. I've got one. Um we do it here at missional one. Um we do it here at missional one. Um we do it here at missional marketing. We have what's called a marketing. We have what's called a marketing. We have what's called a wildly important goal, a wig. And Bart wildly important goal, a wig. And Bart wildly important goal, a wig. And Bart leads our team to make sure that we're leads our team to make sure that we're leads our team to make sure that we're staying on top of our wig week in and staying on top of our wig week in and staying on top of our wig week in and week out. It's what we do every single week out. It's what we do every single week out. It's what we do every single week. I always encourage churches week. I always encourage churches week. I always encourage churches um it's is it the four execution? So, um it's is it the four execution? So, um it's is it the four execution? So, the four the four the four >> four disciplines of execution. >> four disciplines of execution. >> four disciplines of execution. >> Four disciplines of execution. Another >> Four disciplines of execution. Another >> Four disciplines of execution. Another book. It's not free, but go get it. Um, book. It's not free, but go get it. Um, book. It's not free, but go get it. Um, in that book, they talk about setting in that book, they talk about setting in that book, they talk about setting your setting a goal, a goal that's your setting a goal, a goal that's your setting a goal, a goal that's that's not just easily achievable. that's not just easily achievable. that's not just easily achievable. There's a little bit of a stretch there There's a little bit of a stretch there There's a little bit of a stretch there as a comm's team. You know, I I kind of as a comm's team. You know, I I kind of as a comm's team. You know, I I kind of like to do that for churchwide. I've got like to do that for churchwide. I've got like to do that for churchwide. I've got a church that uh they're trying to a church that uh they're trying to a church that uh they're trying to they're trying to reach a certain amount they're trying to reach a certain amount they're trying to reach a certain amount of first-time guests in a given month. of first-time guests in a given month. of first-time guests in a given month. What a great wig, right? But maybe maybe What a great wig, right? But maybe maybe What a great wig, right? But maybe maybe you might want to put a wildly important you might want to put a wildly important you might want to put a wildly important goal in your team with your department goal in your team with your department goal in your team with your department about what are we trying to strive to about what are we trying to strive to about what are we trying to strive to and achieve every single week and maybe and achieve every single week and maybe and achieve every single week and maybe you look at it from a month or quarterly you look at it from a month or quarterly you look at it from a month or quarterly perspective but having a goal. We don't perspective but having a goal. We don't perspective but having a goal. We don't have goals in mind. We kind of look at have goals in mind. We kind of look at have goals in mind. We kind of look at what the leadership tells us are which what the leadership tells us are which what the leadership tells us are which is good tell but what are your goals as is good tell but what are your goals as is good tell but what are your goals as a team? Do you have any? That right a team? Do you have any? That right a team? Do you have any? That right there would be a great extra set to go there would be a great extra set to go there would be a great extra set to go through to become a great contractor.

through to become a great contractor. through to become a great contractor. >> That's really good. Um so one of the key >> That's really good. Um so one of the key >> That's really good. Um so one of the key characteristics that Tika has identified characteristics that Tika has identified characteristics that Tika has identified as being she and I I just want to as being she and I I just want to as being she and I I just want to clarify this this has been Tika has a clarify this this has been Tika has a clarify this this has been Tika has a decade or more experience in the C doing decade or more experience in the C doing decade or more experience in the C doing communications hospital work medical communications hospital work medical communications hospital work medical work and and and church work. Uh what's work and and and church work. Uh what's work and and and church work. Uh what's really interesting about what we get to really interesting about what we get to really interesting about what we get to do on our missional marketing and church do on our missional marketing and church do on our missional marketing and church communications team is that we actually communications team is that we actually communications team is that we actually get to spend lots and lots of time with get to spend lots and lots of time with get to spend lots and lots of time with other people in the church space. And so other people in the church space. And so other people in the church space. And so uh even even beyond the years that we've uh even even beyond the years that we've uh even even beyond the years that we've been in ministry doing the ministry, we been in ministry doing the ministry, we been in ministry doing the ministry, we have an opportunity to sit alongside have an opportunity to sit alongside have an opportunity to sit alongside other people who are doing it today. other people who are doing it today. other people who are doing it today. Some people who have way more experience Some people who have way more experience Some people who have way more experience than we do and we can learn from them than we do and we can learn from them than we do and we can learn from them and glean from them. And it was and glean from them. And it was and glean from them. And it was interesting because when T and I were interesting because when T and I were interesting because when T and I were having this conversation about, you having this conversation about, you having this conversation about, you know, different church comms directors know, different church comms directors know, different church comms directors that she's coaching or consulting with that she's coaching or consulting with that she's coaching or consulting with or even filling uh in some space with on or even filling uh in some space with on or even filling uh in some space with on when people are on leave or doing doing when people are on leave or doing doing when people are on leave or doing doing other things like that. we started other things like that. we started other things like that. we started talking about, you know, what are the talking about, you know, what are the talking about, you know, what are the key characteristics? What are the things key characteristics? What are the things key characteristics? What are the things that make a great communications that make a great communications that make a great communications director, a great communications director, a great communications director, a great communications director beyond being a graphic director beyond being a graphic director beyond being a graphic designer? Because like that's that's designer? Because like that's that's designer? Because like that's that's like a lot of times it's like like you like a lot of times it's like like you like a lot of times it's like like you can do graphic design, you should be our can do graphic design, you should be our can do graphic design, you should be our communications director or or you have a communications director or or you have a communications director or or you have a degree in English and you can write, you degree in English and you can write, you degree in English and you can write, you should be our communications director.

should be our communications director. should be our communications director. So beyond those tangible like measurable So beyond those tangible like measurable So beyond those tangible like measurable skills like that, we're really talking skills like that, we're really talking skills like that, we're really talking more about soft skills here. So being a more about soft skills here. So being a more about soft skills here. So being a strategic thinker, uh, having the strategic thinker, uh, having the strategic thinker, uh, having the ability to do big picture thinking is ability to do big picture thinking is ability to do big picture thinking is one of those key characteristics. Tica, one of those key characteristics. Tica, one of those key characteristics. Tica, the second one that you wrote on our the second one that you wrote on our the second one that you wrote on our list here, you're going to have to list here, you're going to have to list here, you're going to have to explain it. And you said that a key explain it. And you said that a key explain it. And you said that a key characteristic of an effective characteristic of an effective characteristic of an effective communications director is someone who communications director is someone who communications director is someone who is empowering. Why don't you unpack that is empowering. Why don't you unpack that is empowering. Why don't you unpack that for us a little bit? Yeah, this one's for us a little bit? Yeah, this one's for us a little bit? Yeah, this one's this one's going to be a tough one for I this one's going to be a tough one for I this one's going to be a tough one for I think a lot of communications directors, think a lot of communications directors, think a lot of communications directors, but um I truly believe that especially but um I truly believe that especially but um I truly believe that especially in the church world, you need to be able in the church world, you need to be able in the church world, you need to be able to empower a team, empower volunteers, to empower a team, empower volunteers, to empower a team, empower volunteers, kind of let go of the reinss a little kind of let go of the reinss a little kind of let go of the reinss a little bit and be able to be that strategic bit and be able to be that strategic bit and be able to be that strategic thinker and and give the vision to thinker and and give the vision to thinker and and give the vision to someone else and allow them to kind of someone else and allow them to kind of someone else and allow them to kind of execute it and kind of go, you know, run execute it and kind of go, you know, run execute it and kind of go, you know, run with it and go with it. And this one's with it and go with it. And this one's with it and go with it. And this one's really hard for a lot of people because really hard for a lot of people because really hard for a lot of people because oh that that graphic might not be 100% oh that that graphic might not be 100% oh that that graphic might not be 100% up to like where you want it or the up to like where you want it or the up to like where you want it or the social media might not be like exactly social media might not be like exactly social media might not be like exactly where you know I could have done that where you know I could have done that where you know I could have done that myself but in the heart of church in the myself but in the heart of church in the myself but in the heart of church in the heart of you know how we want to heart of you know how we want to heart of you know how we want to shepherd and care for people. We really shepherd and care for people. We really shepherd and care for people. We really want to create a space that people can want to create a space that people can want to create a space that people can use their gifts that they can grow in use their gifts that they can grow in use their gifts that they can grow in their gifts they can grow in their their gifts they can grow in their their gifts they can grow in their talents. Um, and so really allowing talents. Um, and so really allowing talents. Um, and so really allowing others to be able to to serve God within others to be able to to serve God within others to be able to to serve God within the gifts that they have as well. And on the gifts that they have as well. And on the gifts that they have as well. And on the other end, as a constructor, you the other end, as a constructor, you the other end, as a constructor, you have enough on your plate. You need to

have enough on your plate. You need to have enough on your plate. You need to let other people do some things, too. let other people do some things, too. let other people do some things, too. Like, you can't do it all. I'm sorry. Like, you can't do it all. I'm sorry. Like, you can't do it all. I'm sorry. But yeah, so empowering some gift to But yeah, so empowering some gift to But yeah, so empowering some gift to yourself. yourself. yourself. >> I had I learned that the hard way. And >> I had I learned that the hard way. And >> I had I learned that the hard way. And you know, I'll never forget what my lead you know, I'll never forget what my lead you know, I'll never forget what my lead pastor said to all of us. If you can't pastor said to all of us. If you can't pastor said to all of us. If you can't delegate, delegate, delegate, um, you're a liability to me. Those who um, you're a liability to me. Those who um, you're a liability to me. Those who can delegate, those are the ones I want can delegate, those are the ones I want can delegate, those are the ones I want to promote because they've learned the to promote because they've learned the to promote because they've learned the art of handing off and letting others art of handing off and letting others art of handing off and letting others rise up. And so, yeah, we've got to set rise up. And so, yeah, we've got to set rise up. And so, yeah, we've got to set aside our perfectionism of like, I would aside our perfectionism of like, I would aside our perfectionism of like, I would tweak that, you know, strategy or I tweak that, you know, strategy or I tweak that, you know, strategy or I would tweak that social media post or would tweak that social media post or would tweak that social media post or that graphic or that video. Come on. It that graphic or that video. Come on. It that graphic or that video. Come on. It I think Craig Rochelle said something I think Craig Rochelle said something I think Craig Rochelle said something about as long as it's good enough, it's about as long as it's good enough, it's about as long as it's good enough, it's good enough. like he has some quote good enough. like he has some quote good enough. like he has some quote about this. I'm going you don't have to about this. I'm going you don't have to about this. I'm going you don't have to have stuff be perfect. If it's decent, have stuff be perfect. If it's decent, have stuff be perfect. If it's decent, let it go, right? You have other things let it go, right? You have other things let it go, right? You have other things to get done. And man, I can't I can't to get done. And man, I can't I can't to get done. And man, I can't I can't double down that quick enough what you double down that quick enough what you double down that quick enough what you just said there, Tikica, because I I had just said there, Tikica, because I I had just said there, Tikica, because I I had a hard time with that. And um I I had to a hard time with that. And um I I had to a hard time with that. And um I I had to learn the art of delegation and let learn the art of delegation and let learn the art of delegation and let other people run with it.

other people run with it. other people run with it. >> I I think there's a cultural problem in >> I I think there's a cultural problem in >> I I think there's a cultural problem in the church where as the communications the church where as the communications the church where as the communications role isn't always viewed as a ministry role isn't always viewed as a ministry role isn't always viewed as a ministry role. And since it's not viewed as a role. And since it's not viewed as a role. And since it's not viewed as a ministry role, you're hired to do. So ministry role, you're hired to do. So ministry role, you're hired to do. So you you never hire a student ministry you you never hire a student ministry you you never hire a student ministry pastor or director and expect them to do pastor or director and expect them to do pastor or director and expect them to do all the work. You expect them to build a all the work. You expect them to build a all the work. You expect them to build a team of volunteers. You don't hire a team of volunteers. You don't hire a team of volunteers. You don't hire a worship pastor and expect them to play worship pastor and expect them to play worship pastor and expect them to play all of the instruments. You expect them all of the instruments. You expect them all of the instruments. You expect them to build a team. Yet we hire someone to to build a team. Yet we hire someone to to build a team. Yet we hire someone to be our communications specialist. And be our communications specialist. And be our communications specialist. And for some reason, we expect them to do for some reason, we expect them to do for some reason, we expect them to do all the stuff. And you know, we've we've all the stuff. And you know, we've we've all the stuff. And you know, we've we've had other uh guests on our our our show had other uh guests on our our our show had other uh guests on our our our show and have talked about this before. um uh and have talked about this before. um uh and have talked about this before. um uh that when you fail to empower people to that when you fail to empower people to that when you fail to empower people to use their creative gifts on your team, use their creative gifts on your team, use their creative gifts on your team, you're actually failing to give people you're actually failing to give people you're actually failing to give people an opportunity to serve the body of an opportunity to serve the body of an opportunity to serve the body of Christ with the gifts and the talents Christ with the gifts and the talents Christ with the gifts and the talents that the Lord has given them. You know, that the Lord has given them. You know, that the Lord has given them. You know, they're not necessarily spiritual gifts. they're not necessarily spiritual gifts. they're not necessarily spiritual gifts. Being able to to write copy or to edit a Being able to to write copy or to edit a Being able to to write copy or to edit a video or to, you know, create creative video or to, you know, create creative video or to, you know, create creative social media post isn't necessarily a social media post isn't necessarily a social media post isn't necessarily a spiritual gift, but sometimes those spiritual gift, but sometimes those spiritual gift, but sometimes those talents are the things that people talents are the things that people talents are the things that people really need to be able to employ in the really need to be able to employ in the really need to be able to employ in the context of the church to really feel context of the church to really feel context of the church to really feel like they have ownership and they're like they have ownership and they're like they have ownership and they're contributing to the overall mission and contributing to the overall mission and contributing to the overall mission and ministry in the church. So that's true.

ministry in the church. So that's true. ministry in the church. So that's true. Empowering is the second characteristic. Empowering is the second characteristic. Empowering is the second characteristic. Um, for the sake of time, I'm going to Um, for the sake of time, I'm going to Um, for the sake of time, I'm going to keep us motoring through here. This one, keep us motoring through here. This one, keep us motoring through here. This one, no one, no one will argue with this one, no one, no one will argue with this one, no one, no one will argue with this one, but a lot of that have a problem with but a lot of that have a problem with but a lot of that have a problem with the next one, and that is that a great the next one, and that is that a great the next one, and that is that a great communications director needs to be communications director needs to be communications director needs to be organized. Organizational skills are a organized. Organizational skills are a organized. Organizational skills are a key characteristic of a kids coms key characteristic of a kids coms key characteristic of a kids coms director. Now, why would you say that, director. Now, why would you say that, director. Now, why would you say that, Tika? Why do you think that's important? Tika? Why do you think that's important? Tika? Why do you think that's important? >> Well, you see, if you're not organized >> Well, you see, if you're not organized >> Well, you see, if you're not organized and 50 events that are flying in are and 50 events that are flying in are and 50 events that are flying in are never going to get done done on time. never going to get done done on time. never going to get done done on time. Yeah. No, it's a I think any comm's Yeah. No, it's a I think any comm's Yeah. No, it's a I think any comm's director knows that organization is director knows that organization is director knows that organization is going to be key for their success. going to be key for their success. going to be key for their success. >> I think a lot of times the problem is it >> I think a lot of times the problem is it >> I think a lot of times the problem is it takes time to get organized sometimes takes time to get organized sometimes takes time to get organized sometimes and having the right tools and having and having the right tools and having and having the right tools and having the right systems in place can be the right systems in place can be the right systems in place can be complicated or you feel like um you know complicated or you feel like um you know complicated or you feel like um you know I just I don't have time to do this. I'm I just I don't have time to do this. I'm I just I don't have time to do this. I'm just going to whatever pops into my head just going to whatever pops into my head just going to whatever pops into my head I'm going to just post it. You know I'm going to just post it. You know I'm going to just post it. You know things like that. Um, but honestly, things like that. Um, but honestly, things like that. Um, but honestly, organization is going to save you in the organization is going to save you in the organization is going to save you in the long run. It's going to help you be long run. It's going to help you be long run. It's going to help you be successful. It's going to allow you successful. It's going to allow you successful. It's going to allow you space to to use, you know, all some of space to to use, you know, all some of space to to use, you know, all some of these other characteristics we're going these other characteristics we're going these other characteristics we're going to talk about. It's going to create to talk about. It's going to create to talk about. It's going to create space for those. Um, and there's just space for those. Um, and there's just space for those. Um, and there's just you're wearing a lot of hats. You're you're wearing a lot of hats. You're you're wearing a lot of hats. You're balancing a lot of plates. You have to balancing a lot of plates. You have to balancing a lot of plates. You have to be organized.

be organized. be organized. >> I'll tell you, I'll tell you, I um I'm >> I'll tell you, I'll tell you, I um I'm >> I'll tell you, I'll tell you, I um I'm not that guy. That's not my giftedness not that guy. That's not my giftedness not that guy. That's not my giftedness is uh being tenacious of getting stuff is uh being tenacious of getting stuff is uh being tenacious of getting stuff done. Right? I I'll I mean I work at it done. Right? I I'll I mean I work at it done. Right? I I'll I mean I work at it and I you know I've learned if you want and I you know I've learned if you want and I you know I've learned if you want to create a habit or break a habit, do to create a habit or break a habit, do to create a habit or break a habit, do it for 30 days or don't do it for 30 it for 30 days or don't do it for 30 it for 30 days or don't do it for 30 days. You want to read your Bible, read days. You want to read your Bible, read days. You want to read your Bible, read your Bible every day for 30 days. It'll your Bible every day for 30 days. It'll your Bible every day for 30 days. It'll start to become a habit. Pray for 30 start to become a habit. Pray for 30 start to become a habit. Pray for 30 days. It'll be stay organized. Look at days. It'll be stay organized. Look at days. It'll be stay organized. Look at your task list every single day for 30 your task list every single day for 30 your task list every single day for 30 straight days and it'll become a habit straight days and it'll become a habit straight days and it'll become a habit for you. Um but another thing you could for you. Um but another thing you could for you. Um but another thing you could do is go ahead and empower somebody who do is go ahead and empower somebody who do is go ahead and empower somebody who can help you stay organized. somebody can help you stay organized. somebody can help you stay organized. somebody who else is like I would I would I'd be who else is like I would I would I'd be who else is like I would I would I'd be like Tikica you're hired because she's like Tikica you're hired because she's like Tikica you're hired because she's phenomenally organized right and I'm not phenomenally organized right and I'm not phenomenally organized right and I'm not and I would empower Tika help us stay and I would empower Tika help us stay and I would empower Tika help us stay organized and that could be a volunteer organized and that could be a volunteer organized and that could be a volunteer it could be a part-time person you know it could be a part-time person you know it could be a part-time person you know could be a contractor that you work with could be a contractor that you work with could be a contractor that you work with if you can get some money to hire a if you can get some money to hire a if you can get some money to hire a contractor even for five hours a week contractor even for five hours a week contractor even for five hours a week somebody who has that skill set I would somebody who has that skill set I would somebody who has that skill set I would I I tried to do I work on it myself but I I tried to do I work on it myself but I I tried to do I work on it myself but I understand I'm not naturally gifted at I understand I'm not naturally gifted at I understand I'm not naturally gifted at at that kind of work, at that kind of work, at that kind of work, >> but I understand it has to get done. So >> but I understand it has to get done. So >> but I understand it has to get done. So there's no if you don't, well, I'm not there's no if you don't, well, I'm not there's no if you don't, well, I'm not really organized, so I'll just No, don't really organized, so I'll just No, don't really organized, so I'll just No, don't just push that aside, get some help, just push that aside, get some help, just push that aside, get some help, empower somebody.

empower somebody. empower somebody. >> And if you're not organized and you have >> And if you're not organized and you have >> And if you're not organized and you have a team, you're kind of causing some a team, you're kind of causing some a team, you're kind of causing some tension, you know, like tension, you know, like tension, you know, like >> you have to as a leader, like you do >> you have to as a leader, like you do >> you have to as a leader, like you do have to have some organization. So your have to have some organization. So your have to have some organization. So your team feels like there's some structure team feels like there's some structure team feels like there's some structure and they're cared for and it all just and they're cared for and it all just and they're cared for and it all just >> mad because that's that's becoming a >> mad because that's that's becoming a >> mad because that's that's becoming a great church communication director. great church communication director. great church communication director. >> You don't you don't have this on your >> You don't you don't have this on your >> You don't you don't have this on your you don't have this on your list, but you don't have this on your list, but you don't have this on your list, but I'm going to add this characteristic I'm going to add this characteristic I'm going to add this characteristic because if because if you're not because if because if you're not because if because if you're not self-aware, it's hard for you to self-aware, it's hard for you to self-aware, it's hard for you to recognize when your organizational recognize when your organizational recognize when your organizational skills or your lack of organizational skills or your lack of organizational skills or your lack of organizational skills are actually creating a challenge skills are actually creating a challenge skills are actually creating a challenge or barriers to getting things done well or barriers to getting things done well or barriers to getting things done well in your church. And I don't think it's in your church. And I don't think it's in your church. And I don't think it's really difficult to be strategic if really difficult to be strategic if really difficult to be strategic if you're not organized because when you're you're not organized because when you're you're not organized because when you're when you're looking at building when you're looking at building when you're looking at building strategies, developing strategies, strategies, developing strategies, strategies, developing strategies, especially if you're in a seat where you especially if you're in a seat where you especially if you're in a seat where you have to lead up in order to deploy those have to lead up in order to deploy those have to lead up in order to deploy those strategies. You were talking about strategies. You were talking about strategies. You were talking about events and activities and trying to tie events and activities and trying to tie events and activities and trying to tie them together and having one thing lead them together and having one thing lead them together and having one thing lead to the next. That takes strategic to the next. That takes strategic to the next. That takes strategic thinking, but it also takes thinking, but it also takes thinking, but it also takes organizational skills because if you organizational skills because if you organizational skills because if you don't have the organizational skills, don't have the organizational skills, don't have the organizational skills, you'll never be able to to put the you'll never be able to to put the you'll never be able to to put the pieces in order and get the stuff done pieces in order and get the stuff done pieces in order and get the stuff done in a way and in a time frame that allows in a way and in a time frame that allows in a way and in a time frame that allows you to execute on that strategy. So, but you to execute on that strategy. So, but you to execute on that strategy. So, but then having the self-awareness of then having the self-awareness of then having the self-awareness of knowing where your strengths are and knowing where your strengths are and knowing where your strengths are and where your deficiencies are so that you where your deficiencies are so that you where your deficiencies are so that you can whether it's through paid staff or can whether it's through paid staff or can whether it's through paid staff or bringing on volunteers to to offset your bringing on volunteers to to offset your bringing on volunteers to to offset your maybe your weaknesses there. Um, maybe your weaknesses there. Um, maybe your weaknesses there. Um, self-awareness is key, right? Little nug self-awareness is key, right? Little nug self-awareness is key, right? Little nug another free nugget. If you don't know another free nugget. If you don't know another free nugget. If you don't know if you are self-aware, ask the people if you are self-aware, ask the people if you are self-aware, ask the people you work with.

you work with. you work with. >> Give them permission to tell you the >> Give them permission to tell you the >> Give them permission to tell you the truth. truth. truth. >> Ask ask people who are trustworthy. Yes. >> Ask ask people who are trustworthy. Yes. >> Ask ask people who are trustworthy. Yes. Ask Ask ask the people you trust the Ask Ask ask the people you trust the Ask Ask ask the people you trust the most. most. most. >> Hey, I'm going to interrupt the podcast >> Hey, I'm going to interrupt the podcast >> Hey, I'm going to interrupt the podcast here. I hope that you are enjoying the here. I hope that you are enjoying the here. I hope that you are enjoying the conversation between uh Jason and Tika conversation between uh Jason and Tika conversation between uh Jason and Tika and myself. Um, but I had something that and myself. Um, but I had something that and myself. Um, but I had something that I wanted to jump in and share with you I wanted to jump in and share with you I wanted to jump in and share with you here real quickly. Now, don't don't fast here real quickly. Now, don't don't fast here real quickly. Now, don't don't fast forward and don't skip. This is not an forward and don't skip. This is not an forward and don't skip. This is not an advertisement. Um, it's actually a advertisement. Um, it's actually a advertisement. Um, it's actually a little interview within our interview. little interview within our interview. little interview within our interview. Um, I actually had a recent opportunity Um, I actually had a recent opportunity Um, I actually had a recent opportunity to get on a Zoom call with a pastor uh to get on a Zoom call with a pastor uh to get on a Zoom call with a pastor uh who lives on the complete opposite side who lives on the complete opposite side who lives on the complete opposite side of the planet of me. Uh, his name is of the planet of me. Uh, his name is of the planet of me. Uh, his name is Mark Penrith. And, uh, he happens to be Mark Penrith. And, uh, he happens to be Mark Penrith. And, uh, he happens to be a listener to the Missional Marketing a listener to the Missional Marketing a listener to the Missional Marketing Podcast. And he sent me an email out of Podcast. And he sent me an email out of Podcast. And he sent me an email out of the blue one day saying that he had been the blue one day saying that he had been the blue one day saying that he had been listening to the missional marketing listening to the missional marketing listening to the missional marketing podcast. He'd been implementing the podcast. He'd been implementing the podcast. He'd been implementing the things that he'd been learning in the things that he'd been learning in the things that he'd been learning in the podcast and he was actually seeing some podcast and he was actually seeing some podcast and he was actually seeing some growth in his church. And I thought, growth in his church. And I thought, growth in his church. And I thought, well, let me get on a call with this well, let me get on a call with this well, let me get on a call with this guy, Mark. Uh, see if he's credible, see guy, Mark. Uh, see if he's credible, see guy, Mark. Uh, see if he's credible, see what his story, uh, tells us. And, uh, I what his story, uh, tells us. And, uh, I what his story, uh, tells us. And, uh, I recorded the conversation that we had, recorded the conversation that we had, recorded the conversation that we had, and I wanted to share it with you here.

and I wanted to share it with you here. and I wanted to share it with you here. So, I know this is a little bit of a So, I know this is a little bit of a So, I know this is a little bit of a disruption in terms of the conversation disruption in terms of the conversation disruption in terms of the conversation that we were having with Tika, but I that we were having with Tika, but I that we were having with Tika, but I hope that you will find this to be hope that you will find this to be hope that you will find this to be encouraging and helpful. And hey, if encouraging and helpful. And hey, if encouraging and helpful. And hey, if you're having um, success uh, with the you're having um, success uh, with the you're having um, success uh, with the things that you're implementing in the things that you're implementing in the things that you're implementing in the context of your ministry with uh, context of your ministry with uh, context of your ministry with uh, marketing and communications based on marketing and communications based on marketing and communications based on the things that you're learning, we'd the things that you're learning, we'd the things that you're learning, we'd love to hear from you, too. Anyway, love to hear from you, too. Anyway, love to hear from you, too. Anyway, here's a quick uh little interview with here's a quick uh little interview with here's a quick uh little interview with uh my new friend Mark Penrith. So, uh my new friend Mark Penrith. So, uh my new friend Mark Penrith. So, you're in you're in South Africa. you're in you're in South Africa. you're in you're in South Africa. >> I'm in South Africa. Yeah. So born in >> I'm in South Africa. Yeah. So born in >> I'm in South Africa. Yeah. So born in South Africa, raised in South Africa and South Africa, raised in South Africa and South Africa, raised in South Africa and uh didn't intend to go into ministry but uh didn't intend to go into ministry but uh didn't intend to go into ministry but um after about 15 years in in business um after about 15 years in in business um after about 15 years in in business maybe a little bit longer I felt called maybe a little bit longer I felt called maybe a little bit longer I felt called into the ministry and my wife eventually into the ministry and my wife eventually into the ministry and my wife eventually agreed and uh and so we went into went agreed and uh and so we went into went agreed and uh and so we went into went into ministry and of course you know in into ministry and of course you know in into ministry and of course you know in ministry you don't know what you don't ministry you don't know what you don't ministry you don't know what you don't know and um I mean part of what you know and um I mean part of what you know and um I mean part of what you don't know is how to you know tell the don't know is how to you know tell the don't know is how to you know tell the world who you are and uh and kind of world who you are and uh and kind of world who you are and uh and kind of make your congregation known to your make your congregation known to your make your congregation known to your city. And so I was uh I was I I enjoy city. And so I was uh I was I I enjoy city. And so I was uh I was I I enjoy podcasts, listen to podcasts while I podcasts, listen to podcasts while I podcasts, listen to podcasts while I walk walk my dog and uh I uh I came walk walk my dog and uh I uh I came walk walk my dog and uh I uh I came across your podcast. I think I was across your podcast. I think I was across your podcast. I think I was trying to remember why I originally trying to remember why I originally trying to remember why I originally found missional marketing. you might found missional marketing. you might found missional marketing. you might remember, but did you do an episode on remember, but did you do an episode on remember, but did you do an episode on internal communication kind of like internal communication kind of like internal communication kind of like emailing and um and kind of best emailing and um and kind of best emailing and um and kind of best practices and uh I listened to that practices and uh I listened to that practices and uh I listened to that episode. It was it was really helpful.

episode. It was it was really helpful. episode. It was it was really helpful. Um we ended I ended up well Um we ended I ended up well Um we ended I ended up well as a pastor you you you know how to as a pastor you you you know how to as a pastor you you you know how to preach and you've got some theology and preach and you've got some theology and preach and you've got some theology and you've got uh some dreams and some you've got uh some dreams and some you've got uh some dreams and some vision. Um but but you don't necessarily vision. Um but but you don't necessarily vision. Um but but you don't necessarily know how to speak to the people in your know how to speak to the people in your know how to speak to the people in your church. you don't necessarily know how church. you don't necessarily know how church. you don't necessarily know how to do a website. Um I have some to do a website. Um I have some to do a website. Um I have some technical skills but uh but wasn't too technical skills but uh but wasn't too technical skills but uh but wasn't too sure on on how to go about implementing sure on on how to go about implementing sure on on how to go about implementing them and uh yeah listened to an episode them and uh yeah listened to an episode them and uh yeah listened to an episode on internal marketing. I think it was on internal marketing. I think it was on internal marketing. I think it was internal communication, how to write internal communication, how to write internal communication, how to write better emails and that kind of thing. better emails and that kind of thing. better emails and that kind of thing. and uh yeah, ended up putting using what and uh yeah, ended up putting using what and uh yeah, ended up putting using what you had said, put together a a uh kind you had said, put together a a uh kind you had said, put together a a uh kind of a blogging emailing system, building of a blogging emailing system, building of a blogging emailing system, building up a bit of a database that worked. And up a bit of a database that worked. And up a bit of a database that worked. And then uh yeah, as as I've been as I've then uh yeah, as as I've been as I've then uh yeah, as as I've been as I've been listening to missional marketing, been listening to missional marketing, been listening to missional marketing, I've been applying. So I I think last I've been applying. So I I think last I've been applying. So I I think last week I listened to an episode on like week I listened to an episode on like week I listened to an episode on like move your gift your give button from the move your gift your give button from the move your gift your give button from the top right hand corner and it should be a top right hand corner and it should be a top right hand corner and it should be a visit us button and I was like yeah visit us button and I was like yeah visit us button and I was like yeah actually that makes a lot of sense and actually that makes a lot of sense and actually that makes a lot of sense and uh you spoke about um photos and I was uh you spoke about um photos and I was uh you spoke about um photos and I was like yeah okay we've got a holiday Bible like yeah okay we've got a holiday Bible like yeah okay we've got a holiday Bible club banner let's put some photos of club banner let's put some photos of club banner let's put some photos of people and so after I did that I thought people and so after I did that I thought people and so after I did that I thought I'd just uh drop you a line and say I'd just uh drop you a line and say I'd just uh drop you a line and say thank you very much really appreciate thank you very much really appreciate thank you very much really appreciate the ministry and uh you've been helpful the ministry and uh you've been helpful the ministry and uh you've been helpful to me.

to me. to me. >> Well it's that's it's great for us to >> Well it's that's it's great for us to >> Well it's that's it's great for us to hear. I actually I popped over to your hear. I actually I popped over to your hear. I actually I popped over to your website and it is chalk full of photos. website and it is chalk full of photos. website and it is chalk full of photos. So, I was appreciative of that. I was So, I was appreciative of that. I was So, I was appreciative of that. I was like, "This guy's listening to the like, "This guy's listening to the like, "This guy's listening to the podcast because it is a bunch of podcast because it is a bunch of podcast because it is a bunch of containers of photos." Um, how long have containers of photos." Um, how long have containers of photos." Um, how long have you been serving at the church where you been serving at the church where you been serving at the church where you're leading right now? you're leading right now? you're leading right now? >> So, this is my my third assignment. And >> So, this is my my third assignment. And >> So, this is my my third assignment. And the church that I'm at at the moment, the church that I'm at at the moment, the church that I'm at at the moment, I've been here for two years, just over I've been here for two years, just over I've been here for two years, just over two years. two years. two years. >> I came to a church where the average age >> I came to a church where the average age >> I came to a church where the average age was uh 69. Okay. um maybe about hundred was uh 69. Okay. um maybe about hundred was uh 69. Okay. um maybe about hundred in attendance, faithful, godly people, in attendance, faithful, godly people, in attendance, faithful, godly people, love Jesus, warm congregation. Um I was love Jesus, warm congregation. Um I was love Jesus, warm congregation. Um I was so grateful to come um so grateful to so grateful to come um so grateful to so grateful to come um so grateful to join them. Um but but but realized that join them. Um but but but realized that join them. Um but but but realized that we needed to reach our city and uh um we needed to reach our city and uh um we needed to reach our city and uh um over the last 2 and 1/2 years, God has over the last 2 and 1/2 years, God has over the last 2 and 1/2 years, God has been really kind to us. Um about 2/3 of been really kind to us. Um about 2/3 of been really kind to us. Um about 2/3 of the congregation is now brand new. Um the congregation is now brand new. Um the congregation is now brand new. Um our average age is just under 40. um in our average age is just under 40. um in our average age is just under 40. um in that kind of range and the congregation that kind of range and the congregation that kind of range and the congregation has grown substantially to the point has grown substantially to the point has grown substantially to the point where we dreaming of planting a church.

where we dreaming of planting a church. where we dreaming of planting a church. >> That is amazing. Yeah, you're speaking >> That is amazing. Yeah, you're speaking >> That is amazing. Yeah, you're speaking my love language there. Um so uh so what my love language there. Um so uh so what my love language there. Um so uh so what what was the about what was your weekend what was the about what was your weekend what was the about what was your weekend average weekend attendance when you average weekend attendance when you average weekend attendance when you arrived at the church? arrived at the church? arrived at the church? >> Um the first Sunday uh we we we recorded >> Um the first Sunday uh we we we recorded >> Um the first Sunday uh we we we recorded uh was 120. Um and you know I think off uh was 120. Um and you know I think off uh was 120. Um and you know I think off the back of the co years a church which the back of the co years a church which the back of the co years a church which had aged quite a bit before CO um came had aged quite a bit before CO um came had aged quite a bit before CO um came through CO and um and bounced back in through CO and um and bounced back in through CO and um and bounced back in terms of attendance but never to maybe terms of attendance but never to maybe terms of attendance but never to maybe highs that it had experienced in the highs that it had experienced in the highs that it had experienced in the past um and there had been quite a lot past um and there had been quite a lot past um and there had been quite a lot of attrition of the younger generations of attrition of the younger generations of attrition of the younger generations to the um the more vibrant communities to the um the more vibrant communities to the um the more vibrant communities around us um you know without kind of around us um you know without kind of around us um you know without kind of outing anyone's theological ical outing anyone's theological ical outing anyone's theological ical persuasions, but but maybe churches persuasions, but but maybe churches persuasions, but but maybe churches which had more to offer youth and young which had more to offer youth and young which had more to offer youth and young adults. Um so coming into that I I'm adults. Um so coming into that I I'm adults. Um so coming into that I I'm blessed. I'm the father of three blessed. I'm the father of three blessed. I'm the father of three children. Um a 23y old, a 21-year-old, children. Um a 23y old, a 21-year-old, children. Um a 23y old, a 21-year-old, and a 13year-old. So my my family was and a 13year-old. So my my family was and a 13year-old. So my my family was kind of in the sweet spot, although I kind of in the sweet spot, although I kind of in the sweet spot, although I think the past in the right age is never think the past in the right age is never think the past in the right age is never a silver bullet for change. But um but a silver bullet for change. But um but a silver bullet for change. But um but we we started to attract um young adults we we started to attract um young adults we we started to attract um young adults quite quickly. Um and um and not only quite quickly. Um and um and not only quite quickly. Um and um and not only did we attract them, we we started to did we attract them, we we started to did we attract them, we we started to retain them um off the back of social retain them um off the back of social retain them um off the back of social media, um Facebook, Instagram, uh Google media, um Facebook, Instagram, uh Google media, um Facebook, Instagram, uh Google in particular, uh Google places um or in particular, uh Google places um or in particular, uh Google places um or whatever they call it now, business whatever they call it now, business whatever they call it now, business places or places or places or >> business profile. Yeah.

>> business profile. Yeah. >> business profile. Yeah. >> Um I think off the off the back of those >> Um I think off the off the back of those >> Um I think off the off the back of those social medias, we we started to really social medias, we we started to really social medias, we we started to really attract people. um worked hard on that attract people. um worked hard on that attract people. um worked hard on that website website website >> and uh and and kind of just really made >> and uh and and kind of just really made >> and uh and and kind of just really made it known to the city around us that um it known to the city around us that um it known to the city around us that um we were conservative evangelical church we were conservative evangelical church we were conservative evangelical church um with the city in mind and um yeah, um with the city in mind and um yeah, um with the city in mind and um yeah, God's been good. God's been good. God's been good. >> Yeah. So, uh you you mentioned in the >> Yeah. So, uh you you mentioned in the >> Yeah. So, uh you you mentioned in the email, although I can't remember the email, although I can't remember the email, although I can't remember the numbers, you said the church has numbers, you said the church has numbers, you said the church has actually grown quite a bit since you've actually grown quite a bit since you've actually grown quite a bit since you've been there. What uh what what's your been there. What uh what what's your been there. What uh what what's your weekend attendance now? weekend attendance now? weekend attendance now? >> Yeah. So, um 250 um >> Yeah. So, um 250 um >> Yeah. So, um 250 um >> and um and our our membership is sitting >> and um and our our membership is sitting >> and um and our our membership is sitting at 195 with about 20 people in the at 195 with about 20 people in the at 195 with about 20 people in the pipeline. Um we we're dreaming of pipeline. Um we we're dreaming of pipeline. Um we we're dreaming of planting when we get to 265 members. So, planting when we get to 265 members. So, planting when we get to 265 members. So, um yeah, in January we we actually put um yeah, in January we we actually put um yeah, in January we we actually put that vision down on paper and presented that vision down on paper and presented that vision down on paper and presented it to the church and got church buying. it to the church and got church buying. it to the church and got church buying. We're a Baptist church, so We're a Baptist church, so We're a Baptist church, so congregational buying. And um uh at that congregational buying. And um uh at that congregational buying. And um uh at that time I think we were about 180 members time I think we were about 180 members time I think we were about 180 members and so yeah about 40 in the last 6 and so yeah about 40 in the last 6 and so yeah about 40 in the last 6 months and if we carry on at that growth months and if we carry on at that growth months and if we carry on at that growth possibly by the end of the year we'll possibly by the end of the year we'll possibly by the end of the year we'll have reached that threshold. There's a have reached that threshold. There's a have reached that threshold. There's a couple of other milestones that we that couple of other milestones that we that couple of other milestones that we that we have planned but uh that that's the we have planned but uh that that's the we have planned but uh that that's the the dream would be to plant in our city the dream would be to plant in our city the dream would be to plant in our city a couple of times.

a couple of times. a couple of times. >> What does the evangelical landscape in >> What does the evangelical landscape in >> What does the evangelical landscape in your part of South Africa look like? your part of South Africa look like? your part of South Africa look like? what what what are what are the things what what what are what are the things what what what are what are the things that you're kind of contending with as a that you're kind of contending with as a that you're kind of contending with as a as a church that's trying to reach the as a church that's trying to reach the as a church that's trying to reach the community? I you know obviously I I community? I you know obviously I I community? I you know obviously I I think most of our listeners, most of our think most of our listeners, most of our think most of our listeners, most of our audience is probably in North America, audience is probably in North America, audience is probably in North America, the United States and Canada. Um what the United States and Canada. Um what the United States and Canada. Um what how would you describe or define kind of how would you describe or define kind of how would you describe or define kind of the evangelical landscape in South the evangelical landscape in South the evangelical landscape in South Africa? Africa? Africa? >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Sure. So um South Africa I think probably So um South Africa I think probably So um South Africa I think probably follows some of the trends in the follows some of the trends in the follows some of the trends in the states. um American culture gets is states. um American culture gets is states. um American culture gets is probably your biggest export. And so um probably your biggest export. And so um probably your biggest export. And so um I I would say um a lot of what you see I I would say um a lot of what you see I I would say um a lot of what you see in the states you would see on South in the states you would see on South in the states you would see on South African shores, but maybe with an African shores, but maybe with an African shores, but maybe with an African context, you know, some things African context, you know, some things African context, you know, some things work and some things don't. Um Africa work and some things don't. Um Africa work and some things don't. Um Africa generally, and I'm I'm not just talking generally, and I'm I'm not just talking generally, and I'm I'm not just talking South Africa, but all the way up has South Africa, but all the way up has South Africa, but all the way up has been heavily influenced by the been heavily influenced by the been heavily influenced by the prosperity gospel. Um and um and and prosperity gospel. Um and um and and prosperity gospel. Um and um and and that's really that's really caused that's really that's really caused that's really that's really caused massive damage on a continent where um massive damage on a continent where um massive damage on a continent where um where there's huge amounts of poverty um where there's huge amounts of poverty um where there's huge amounts of poverty um uh huge amounts of of injustice of every uh huge amounts of of injustice of every uh huge amounts of of injustice of every kind. Um the social uh the prosperity kind. Um the social uh the prosperity kind. Um the social uh the prosperity gospel has certainly caused wre havoc gospel has certainly caused wre havoc gospel has certainly caused wre havoc across the board. Um but at the same across the board. Um but at the same across the board. Um but at the same time um our American friends uh through time um our American friends uh through time um our American friends uh through through organizations like Nine Marks of through organizations like Nine Marks of through organizations like Nine Marks of a Healthy Church, Gospel Coalition, uh a Healthy Church, Gospel Coalition, uh a Healthy Church, Gospel Coalition, uh Grace Community Church and uh an an

Grace Community Church and uh an an Grace Community Church and uh an an organization Grace Advance um have made organization Grace Advance um have made organization Grace Advance um have made huge inroads um in suburban uh township huge inroads um in suburban uh township huge inroads um in suburban uh township uh churches and uh and and I would say uh churches and uh and and I would say uh churches and uh and and I would say that there is some healthy healthy that there is some healthy healthy that there is some healthy healthy evangelical upswing happening in South evangelical upswing happening in South evangelical upswing happening in South Africa. Um when I talk to friends um it Africa. Um when I talk to friends um it Africa. Um when I talk to friends um it it seems that there are a number of it seems that there are a number of it seems that there are a number of conservative churches which people are conservative churches which people are conservative churches which people are flocking to off the back of maybe flocking to off the back of maybe flocking to off the back of maybe disillusionment of the last 20 years. Um disillusionment of the last 20 years. Um disillusionment of the last 20 years. Um kind of big tent Eva arrived I think in kind of big tent Eva arrived I think in kind of big tent Eva arrived I think in about the 1980s 1990s on South African about the 1980s 1990s on South African about the 1980s 1990s on South African shores. um and and people certainly have shores. um and and people certainly have shores. um and and people certainly have flocked to those large um those large flocked to those large um those large flocked to those large um those large kind of uh megaurch style places, but I kind of uh megaurch style places, but I kind of uh megaurch style places, but I would say over the last 10 years there's would say over the last 10 years there's would say over the last 10 years there's a renewed interest in in Bible teaching a renewed interest in in Bible teaching a renewed interest in in Bible teaching expository preaching kind of works and I expository preaching kind of works and I expository preaching kind of works and I would sit in that tribe. would sit in that tribe. would sit in that tribe. >> Sure. Uh what what's the community like >> Sure. Uh what what's the community like >> Sure. Uh what what's the community like that you're actually in? Is it a larger that you're actually in? Is it a larger that you're actually in? Is it a larger community, smaller community, midsize?

community, smaller community, midsize? community, smaller community, midsize? How would how would you describe that? How would how would you describe that? How would how would you describe that? >> Yeah. So if you're aware of South Africa >> Yeah. So if you're aware of South Africa >> Yeah. So if you're aware of South Africa at all, kind of capital city is um at all, kind of capital city is um at all, kind of capital city is um Ptoria and just below Pritoria is a very Ptoria and just below Pritoria is a very Ptoria and just below Pritoria is a very large city, Johannesburg and it's made large city, Johannesburg and it's made large city, Johannesburg and it's made up of multiple metros, all of which are up of multiple metros, all of which are up of multiple metros, all of which are really close to one another. I'm on the really close to one another. I'm on the really close to one another. I'm on the east I'm in the eastern metro. It's east I'm in the eastern metro. It's east I'm in the eastern metro. It's called Iillenni and I'm in a city called called Iillenni and I'm in a city called called Iillenni and I'm in a city called Benoni. Um yeah, I the the the suburb I Benoni. Um yeah, I the the the suburb I Benoni. Um yeah, I the the the suburb I stay in is a guess a white collar stay in is a guess a white collar stay in is a guess a white collar suburb. Um the city itself is quite suburb. Um the city itself is quite suburb. Um the city itself is quite sprawling. So a couple of million sprawling. So a couple of million sprawling. So a couple of million people. Um there are sections of it people. Um there are sections of it people. Um there are sections of it which are impoverished like really which are impoverished like really which are impoverished like really really poor. Um so even in the church really poor. Um so even in the church really poor. Um so even in the church that I serve um there will be folk who that I serve um there will be folk who that I serve um there will be folk who are wealthy by any standard um uh first are wealthy by any standard um uh first are wealthy by any standard um uh first world or uh by by any standard. And then world or uh by by any standard. And then world or uh by by any standard. And then we have folk who are homeless who um who we have folk who are homeless who um who we have folk who are homeless who um who stay down at the local dam and uh come stay down at the local dam and uh come stay down at the local dam and uh come to church on Sundays and uh and uh you to church on Sundays and uh and uh you to church on Sundays and uh and uh you know we involved in supporting them to know we involved in supporting them to know we involved in supporting them to whatever degree we can. Um yeah so so a whatever degree we can. Um yeah so so a whatever degree we can. Um yeah so so a really large cross-section although really large cross-section although really large cross-section although that's quite new for this particular that's quite new for this particular that's quite new for this particular church. I would say 2 years ago it was a church. I would say 2 years ago it was a church. I would say 2 years ago it was a very homogeneous church. Um now 2 years very homogeneous church. Um now 2 years very homogeneous church. Um now 2 years later there's quite a lot more later there's quite a lot more later there's quite a lot more diversity. It's it's starting to reflect diversity. It's it's starting to reflect diversity. It's it's starting to reflect its city um in every increasing measure.

its city um in every increasing measure. its city um in every increasing measure. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And that might be a kind of a missional >> And that might be a kind of a missional >> And that might be a kind of a missional a missional um uh distinctive thing. a missional um uh distinctive thing. a missional um uh distinctive thing. >> Yeah. No, no, I totally get that. Um let >> Yeah. No, no, I totally get that. Um let >> Yeah. No, no, I totally get that. Um let let's go back to just maybe for a couple let's go back to just maybe for a couple let's go back to just maybe for a couple of minutes some of the things that some of minutes some of the things that some of minutes some of the things that some of the things that you've learned from of the things that you've learned from of the things that you've learned from listening to the podcast that you've listening to the podcast that you've listening to the podcast that you've found to be really helpful as it relates found to be really helpful as it relates found to be really helpful as it relates to leveraging your digital presence and to leveraging your digital presence and to leveraging your digital presence and reaching the demographic and the reaching the demographic and the reaching the demographic and the generation of the the community that you generation of the the community that you generation of the the community that you think you want to reach. Any any think you want to reach. Any any think you want to reach. Any any particular things stand out? You talked particular things stand out? You talked particular things stand out? You talked about updating photos on the website, about updating photos on the website, about updating photos on the website, using your Google business profile. using your Google business profile. using your Google business profile. Those are things that we harp on a lot. Those are things that we harp on a lot. Those are things that we harp on a lot. So, uh, if anybody's listened to our So, uh, if anybody's listened to our So, uh, if anybody's listened to our podcast for more than, uh, like 7 podcast for more than, uh, like 7 podcast for more than, uh, like 7 minutes, they've probably heard minutes, they've probably heard minutes, they've probably heard multiple, uh, multiple times that they multiple, uh, multiple times that they multiple, uh, multiple times that they need to be doing that. And our our need to be doing that. And our our need to be doing that. And our our church partners, the ones that we meet church partners, the ones that we meet church partners, the ones that we meet with on a regular basis, they get that with on a regular basis, they get that with on a regular basis, they get that all the time as well. Um, anything else all the time as well. Um, anything else all the time as well. Um, anything else stand out to you that that has been stand out to you that that has been stand out to you that that has been particularly helpful? particularly helpful? particularly helpful? >> So, um, in terms of people arriving >> So, um, in terms of people arriving >> So, um, in terms of people arriving through our doors, like on any given through our doors, like on any given through our doors, like on any given Sunday, we we have multiple families Sunday, we we have multiple families Sunday, we we have multiple families visiting. almost all of them hit Google visiting. almost all of them hit Google visiting. almost all of them hit Google first and then through Google hit our first and then through Google hit our first and then through Google hit our website and so a website which is um website and so a website which is um website and so a website which is um focused on kind of visitor first if that focused on kind of visitor first if that focused on kind of visitor first if that makes sense uh rather than insider makes sense uh rather than insider makes sense uh rather than insider language with an insider focus that's language with an insider focus that's language with an insider focus that's been really helpful um for us to think been really helpful um for us to think been really helpful um for us to think through and we've we've I've done a lot through and we've we've I've done a lot through and we've we've I've done a lot of work and that was a bit of change for of work and that was a bit of change for of work and that was a bit of change for me cuz I think when I first put a me cuz I think when I first put a me cuz I think when I first put a website together for a church I thought website together for a church I thought website together for a church I thought of members that had been there forever of members that had been there forever of members that had been there forever first um but but we've we've tried to first um but but we've we've tried to first um but but we've we've tried to tailor the website to those who are

tailor the website to those who are tailor the website to those who are checking us out for the first time. Um I checking us out for the first time. Um I checking us out for the first time. Um I would say um uh the idea of of images um would say um uh the idea of of images um would say um uh the idea of of images um lots of photos of real people in real lots of photos of real people in real lots of photos of real people in real services. So um we've we've stopped services. So um we've we've stopped services. So um we've we've stopped putting um a lot of kind of invites to I putting um a lot of kind of invites to I putting um a lot of kind of invites to I don't know bring in shares. I guess you don't know bring in shares. I guess you don't know bring in shares. I guess you guys might call it potluck. Um but uh guys might call it potluck. Um but uh guys might call it potluck. Um but uh we've stopped putting our invites onto we've stopped putting our invites onto we've stopped putting our invites onto our social medias. In fact, we purged our social medias. In fact, we purged our social medias. In fact, we purged our social medias of all of that kind of our social medias of all of that kind of our social medias of all of that kind of stuff and we now post maybe four or five stuff and we now post maybe four or five stuff and we now post maybe four or five photos from each Sunday. So, there's a photos from each Sunday. So, there's a photos from each Sunday. So, there's a growing catalog of photos of of our growing catalog of photos of of our growing catalog of photos of of our services uh online. That's been really services uh online. That's been really services uh online. That's been really really helpful. Um, and then the simple really helpful. Um, and then the simple really helpful. Um, and then the simple stuff that you guys speak about often, stuff that you guys speak about often, stuff that you guys speak about often, just making sure that your information just making sure that your information just making sure that your information is up to date, service times are right is up to date, service times are right is up to date, service times are right and visible. um uh uh you know, how how and visible. um uh uh you know, how how and visible. um uh uh you know, how how to how to find find the place, the to how to find find the place, the to how to find find the place, the address, um all of those kinds of things address, um all of those kinds of things address, um all of those kinds of things which are which are now fairly which are which are now fairly which are which are now fairly self-evident to me that they work. Um self-evident to me that they work. Um self-evident to me that they work. Um but but maybe when I when I when I but but maybe when I when I when I but but maybe when I when I when I started looking at the website, it started looking at the website, it started looking at the website, it wasn't as obvious. And so those kinds of wasn't as obvious. And so those kinds of wasn't as obvious. And so those kinds of things have been really really helpful.

things have been really really helpful. things have been really really helpful. >> I hope that you found that conversation >> I hope that you found that conversation >> I hope that you found that conversation to be encouraging. I certainly did. And to be encouraging. I certainly did. And to be encouraging. I certainly did. And uh yeah, we well well let's get back to uh yeah, we well well let's get back to uh yeah, we well well let's get back to uh our regularly scheduled program uh uh our regularly scheduled program uh uh our regularly scheduled program uh with Jason and Tika. All right, next one with Jason and Tika. All right, next one with Jason and Tika. All right, next one on the list and this is the one that I on the list and this is the one that I on the list and this is the one that I think everybody would have probably said think everybody would have probably said think everybody would have probably said should be number one, but you know, for should be number one, but you know, for should be number one, but you know, for whatever reason, you made it number four whatever reason, you made it number four whatever reason, you made it number four on list. I don't know if these are in in on list. I don't know if these are in in on list. I don't know if these are in in any particular pegging here, but uh the any particular pegging here, but uh the any particular pegging here, but uh the next one is creative. A great next one is creative. A great next one is creative. A great communications director needs to be communications director needs to be communications director needs to be creative. Uh what what what kind of creative. Uh what what what kind of creative. Uh what what what kind of creativity are you talking about here? creativity are you talking about here? creativity are you talking about here? Well, I will say I don't think that, you Well, I will say I don't think that, you Well, I will say I don't think that, you know, I don't think a communications know, I don't think a communications know, I don't think a communications needs to be the most creative person in needs to be the most creative person in needs to be the most creative person in the room, but I think there needs to be the room, but I think there needs to be the room, but I think there needs to be some kind of creativity. Uh just even some kind of creativity. Uh just even some kind of creativity. Uh just even thinking of of you know thinking of how thinking of of you know thinking of how thinking of of you know thinking of how to do things maybe a little differently to do things maybe a little differently to do things maybe a little differently or even from a you know design or even from a you know design or even from a you know design photography standpoint being able they photography standpoint being able they photography standpoint being able they might not be the best designer or might not be the best designer or might not be the best designer or photographer but they need to be able to photographer but they need to be able to photographer but they need to be able to know the vision or know where we're know the vision or know where we're know the vision or know where we're going and be able to let those who are going and be able to let those who are going and be able to let those who are being the creators to to do it. Um, I being the creators to to do it. Um, I being the creators to to do it. Um, I had some very talented graphic designers had some very talented graphic designers had some very talented graphic designers that I oversaw and they were way better that I oversaw and they were way better that I oversaw and they were way better at designing than I was, but I was able at designing than I was, but I was able at designing than I was, but I was able to give the vision, give the critique, to give the vision, give the critique, to give the vision, give the critique, make those adjustments. I un, you know, make those adjustments. I un, you know, make those adjustments. I un, you know, creative, but they had way better skills creative, but they had way better skills creative, but they had way better skills than I did. Um, than I did. Um, than I did. Um, >> I would agree with that because I think >> I would agree with that because I think >> I would agree with that because I think part of the part sometimes the part of part of the part sometimes the part of part of the part sometimes the part of the church's problem is we're we're a a the church's problem is we're we're a a the church's problem is we're we're a a house of brands and not a branded house.

house of brands and not a branded house. house of brands and not a branded house. And you as the comm director, you need And you as the comm director, you need And you as the comm director, you need to advocate to have a branded house, not to advocate to have a branded house, not to advocate to have a branded house, not a whole bunch of brands inside your a whole bunch of brands inside your a whole bunch of brands inside your house. You won't get the momentum that house. You won't get the momentum that house. You won't get the momentum that other I see other churches have when other I see other churches have when other I see other churches have when they have a branded house. And sometimes they have a branded house. And sometimes they have a branded house. And sometimes when I think of creative, I don't when I think of creative, I don't when I think of creative, I don't necessarily always think about a design necessarily always think about a design necessarily always think about a design per se, but momentum, per se, but momentum, per se, but momentum, you know, having strategy, momentum, and you know, having strategy, momentum, and you know, having strategy, momentum, and this is where we're trying to head. This this is where we're trying to head. This this is where we're trying to head. This is what we're trying to accomplish. And is what we're trying to accomplish. And is what we're trying to accomplish. And that's all part of that creative that's all part of that creative that's all part of that creative environment. So, yeah, I, you know, I environment. So, yeah, I, you know, I environment. So, yeah, I, you know, I think I think all three of us are think I think all three of us are think I think all three of us are creative, um, in a sense, right? God's creative, um, in a sense, right? God's creative, um, in a sense, right? God's given us different levels of creativity. given us different levels of creativity. given us different levels of creativity. Um, and I think we we're all Well, Um, and I think we we're all Well, Um, and I think we we're all Well, Tikica, you're way better than us. But Tikica, you're way better than us. But Tikica, you're way better than us. But graphic design, I mean, I I have an eye graphic design, I mean, I I have an eye graphic design, I mean, I I have an eye for graphic design. So does Bart. And for graphic design. So does Bart. And for graphic design. So does Bart. And you are a professional graphic design you are a professional graphic design you are a professional graphic design person. God's giving you those tools. person. God's giving you those tools. person. God's giving you those tools. But I think we have to have some level But I think we have to have some level But I think we have to have some level of that because that's just that's of that because that's just that's of that because that's just that's required. You can't just be absent of required. You can't just be absent of required. You can't just be absent of that. And if you are absent of that, you that. And if you are absent of that, you that. And if you are absent of that, you need to be strategic in how you how do need to be strategic in how you how do need to be strategic in how you how do you get around that Earl? Because I you get around that Earl? Because I you get around that Earl? Because I agree with you. Got to have that idea of agree with you. Got to have that idea of agree with you. Got to have that idea of creativity that comes from the Lord.

creativity that comes from the Lord. creativity that comes from the Lord. >> Yeah. And even just the spa, sorry, >> Yeah. And even just the spa, sorry, >> Yeah. And even just the spa, sorry, Lord. Um even just the space for Lord. Um even just the space for Lord. Um even just the space for creativity, right? Like event planning. creativity, right? Like event planning. creativity, right? Like event planning. I love a good creative meeting where we I love a good creative meeting where we I love a good creative meeting where we can just blue sky. Sky's the limit. can just blue sky. Sky's the limit. can just blue sky. Sky's the limit. Let's have this space to just be Let's have this space to just be Let's have this space to just be creative. You don't always get that creative. You don't always get that creative. You don't always get that again because you're trying to get again because you're trying to get again because you're trying to get things done. You're just trying to do things done. You're just trying to do things done. You're just trying to do the tabs. But having space to just be the tabs. But having space to just be the tabs. But having space to just be creative, bring people in who are creative, bring people in who are creative, bring people in who are creatives that can kind of just think creatives that can kind of just think creatives that can kind of just think and dream is really exciting. They don't and dream is really exciting. They don't and dream is really exciting. They don't always have to be the one that executes always have to be the one that executes always have to be the one that executes the thing, but they can be in this space the thing, but they can be in this space the thing, but they can be in this space to kind of um you know, let's make this to kind of um you know, let's make this to kind of um you know, let's make this better. Let's think of all these better. Let's think of all these better. Let's think of all these different options that we can can do. Um different options that we can can do. Um different options that we can can do. Um and that's another opportunity. and that's another opportunity. and that's another opportunity. >> Yeah, I was going to say we had um uh >> Yeah, I was going to say we had um uh >> Yeah, I was going to say we had um uh Tyler Mount from Providence Church, the Tyler Mount from Providence Church, the Tyler Mount from Providence Church, the pastor of creative engagement. I think pastor of creative engagement. I think pastor of creative engagement. I think that's his his title and we had it on that's his his title and we had it on that's his his title and we had it on our show. Actually, by the time this our show. Actually, by the time this our show. Actually, by the time this podcast episode drops, I found out today podcast episode drops, I found out today podcast episode drops, I found out today that Tyler is is moving to a new church that Tyler is is moving to a new church that Tyler is is moving to a new church in Atlanta. So, I just found out that in Atlanta. So, I just found out that in Atlanta. So, I just found out that today. So, Tyler, if Congratulations, today. So, Tyler, if Congratulations, today. So, Tyler, if Congratulations, Tyler, congratulations on a new Tyler, congratulations on a new Tyler, congratulations on a new opportunity. I'm sure that Providence is opportunity. I'm sure that Providence is opportunity. I'm sure that Providence is going to miss you a ton. Uh anyway, uh going to miss you a ton. Uh anyway, uh going to miss you a ton. Uh anyway, uh one of the things that Tyler said on our one of the things that Tyler said on our one of the things that Tyler said on our episode when we when we recorded was he episode when we when we recorded was he episode when we when we recorded was he said, "I'm not a graphic designer, but I said, "I'm not a graphic designer, but I said, "I'm not a graphic designer, but I know good graphic design when I see it."

know good graphic design when I see it." know good graphic design when I see it." And I think that's part of the creative And I think that's part of the creative And I think that's part of the creative eye, the creative mind is is being able eye, the creative mind is is being able eye, the creative mind is is being able to to to recognize it, to see it, and as to to to recognize it, to see it, and as to to to recognize it, to see it, and as you said, Tikica, to be able to give the you said, Tikica, to be able to give the you said, Tikica, to be able to give the feedback that your other creatives uh feedback that your other creatives uh feedback that your other creatives uh need to help accomplish the vision that need to help accomplish the vision that need to help accomplish the vision that you and your leadership team are are you and your leadership team are are you and your leadership team are are trying to, you know, trying to trying to, you know, trying to trying to, you know, trying to accomplish. And and creativity comes in accomplish. And and creativity comes in accomplish. And and creativity comes in so many different ways, right? You can so many different ways, right? You can so many different ways, right? You can be a creative writer, you can be a be a creative writer, you can be a be a creative writer, you can be a creative thinker, you can be an creative thinker, you can be an creative thinker, you can be an ideiator, you can you can sure, you can ideiator, you can you can sure, you can ideiator, you can you can sure, you can be a graphic designer or a filmmaker. be a graphic designer or a filmmaker. be a graphic designer or a filmmaker. you're a great photographer as well. you're a great photographer as well. you're a great photographer as well. Like I I have cameras, but the photos Like I I have cameras, but the photos Like I I have cameras, but the photos that I take don't look as good as the that I take don't look as good as the that I take don't look as good as the photos you take. Part of that is just photos you take. Part of that is just photos you take. Part of that is just technical skill, and part of it is just technical skill, and part of it is just technical skill, and part of it is just having an eye for how you how you frame having an eye for how you how you frame having an eye for how you how you frame a photo. Um, so creativity comes in a a photo. Um, so creativity comes in a a photo. Um, so creativity comes in a lot of different ways, but certainly lot of different ways, but certainly lot of different ways, but certainly creativity is a big part of being in the creativity is a big part of being in the creativity is a big part of being in the role of of a communications director. role of of a communications director. role of of a communications director. Otherwise, you're really probably more Otherwise, you're really probably more Otherwise, you're really probably more of an administrator than you are a a of an administrator than you are a a of an administrator than you are a a create or like a a create a create or like a a create a create or like a a create a communications director, right? And communications director, right? And communications director, right? And there's there's a room for that spot on there's there's a room for that spot on there's there's a room for that spot on the church. Maybe you're listening to the church. Maybe you're listening to the church. Maybe you're listening to this podcast and you're thinking, "Well, this podcast and you're thinking, "Well, this podcast and you're thinking, "Well, I'm not really a creative person, but I'm not really a creative person, but I'm not really a creative person, but I'm really good at getting the stuff I'm really good at getting the stuff I'm really good at getting the stuff done." This is not meant as a criticism done." This is not meant as a criticism done." This is not meant as a criticism at all if you're not necessarily a at all if you're not necessarily a at all if you're not necessarily a highly crit uh creative person because, highly crit uh creative person because, highly crit uh creative person because, well, sometimes creative people have a well, sometimes creative people have a well, sometimes creative people have a harder time getting stuff done and they harder time getting stuff done and they harder time getting stuff done and they need people on their team that can get need people on their team that can get need people on their team that can get the stuff done. So, don't take that as a the stuff done. So, don't take that as a the stuff done. So, don't take that as a as a knock. It's just a reality of of of as a knock. It's just a reality of of of as a knock. It's just a reality of of of really, especially if you're a midsize really, especially if you're a midsize really, especially if you're a midsize or larger church, being able to have or larger church, being able to have or larger church, being able to have those creative skills uh can really be a those creative skills uh can really be a those creative skills uh can really be a benefit to your team. Um, the last uh benefit to your team. Um, the last uh benefit to your team. Um, the last uh the last one here, which I actually the last one here, which I actually the last one here, which I actually think I mean they're all I think really

think I mean they're all I think really think I mean they're all I think really important, but this last characteristic important, but this last characteristic important, but this last characteristic that you put here, I think is is not that you put here, I think is is not that you put here, I think is is not just true of a communications director. just true of a communications director. just true of a communications director. It's actually true of anyone who serves It's actually true of anyone who serves It's actually true of anyone who serves on a church staff. Okay. Uh, and that is on a church staff. Okay. Uh, and that is on a church staff. Okay. Uh, and that is that Tika says an effective comms that Tika says an effective comms that Tika says an effective comms director needs to be adaptable. director needs to be adaptable. director needs to be adaptable. Adaptable. And I would say that really Adaptable. And I would say that really Adaptable. And I would say that really applies to anybody who's not a church applies to anybody who's not a church applies to anybody who's not a church staff. You need to be adaptable. But why staff. You need to be adaptable. But why staff. You need to be adaptable. But why don't you talk a little bit about why don't you talk a little bit about why don't you talk a little bit about why you think that's so important for a you think that's so important for a you think that's so important for a communications director? Yeah, I think communications director? Yeah, I think communications director? Yeah, I think being adaptable is so important and it's being adaptable is so important and it's being adaptable is so important and it's hard sometimes when if you're being hard sometimes when if you're being hard sometimes when if you're being strategic and you have a plan and you strategic and you have a plan and you strategic and you have a plan and you have things are going and then something have things are going and then something have things are going and then something changes that can be really hard for some changes that can be really hard for some changes that can be really hard for some people and some comms directors and people and some comms directors and people and some comms directors and sometimes you just have to give that sometimes you just have to give that sometimes you just have to give that frustration to God and you got to be frustration to God and you got to be frustration to God and you got to be adaptable. You got to have space for adaptable. You got to have space for adaptable. You got to have space for changes. Things change. Now, if things changes. Things change. Now, if things changes. Things change. Now, if things are changing like all the time, maybe are changing like all the time, maybe are changing like all the time, maybe you might have need to have a you might have need to have a you might have need to have a conversation with someone. There's a conversation with someone. There's a conversation with someone. There's a difference. You know, there's a difference. You know, there's a difference. You know, there's a difference there. But, you know, there's difference there. But, you know, there's difference there. But, you know, there's space for um if you're planning well and space for um if you're planning well and space for um if you're planning well and maybe a really big awesome God maybe a really big awesome God maybe a really big awesome God opportunity comes to your church, be opportunity comes to your church, be opportunity comes to your church, be adaptable. Let's do this thing. Let's adaptable. Let's do this thing. Let's adaptable. Let's do this thing. Let's get this thing going. Um COVID was an get this thing going. Um COVID was an get this thing going. Um COVID was an amazing example of how to be adaptable.

amazing example of how to be adaptable. amazing example of how to be adaptable. That was probably most of us found out That was probably most of us found out That was probably most of us found out if we were good at, you know, if we were good at, you know, if we were good at, you know, transitioning. I always think of the um transitioning. I always think of the um transitioning. I always think of the um the friends episode with the couch and the friends episode with the couch and the friends episode with the couch and pivoting and them yelling pivot. That's pivoting and them yelling pivot. That's pivoting and them yelling pivot. That's what comes to my mind every single time. what comes to my mind every single time. what comes to my mind every single time. Um but just being able to pivot, adapt. Um but just being able to pivot, adapt. Um but just being able to pivot, adapt. It's church. Like just it's we got to It's church. Like just it's we got to It's church. Like just it's we got to take it down a little bit. It's church. take it down a little bit. It's church. take it down a little bit. It's church. Like we're doing this for Jesus. Like Like we're doing this for Jesus. Like Like we're doing this for Jesus. Like let some things go. Don't hold on things let some things go. Don't hold on things let some things go. Don't hold on things too tight. um and just allow kind of, too tight. um and just allow kind of, too tight. um and just allow kind of, you know, things to to happen and work you know, things to to happen and work you know, things to to happen and work if they need to. if they need to. if they need to. >> What great advice. I um I would I love >> What great advice. I um I would I love >> What great advice. I um I would I love that word. I'd also frame another word that word. I'd also frame another word that word. I'd also frame another word right next to it called a being a right next to it called a being a right next to it called a being a servant leader. servant leader. servant leader. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> we're all called to be servant leaders >> we're all called to be servant leaders >> we're all called to be servant leaders and we're all called to extend grace and we're all called to extend grace and we're all called to extend grace when grace is needed. And sometimes, you when grace is needed. And sometimes, you when grace is needed. And sometimes, you know, we're it's the ministries we serve know, we're it's the ministries we serve know, we're it's the ministries we serve and I saw myself as they're my clients and I saw myself as they're my clients and I saw myself as they're my clients and and I need to take care of them. and and I need to take care of them. and and I need to take care of them. And, you know, of course, my lead pastor And, you know, of course, my lead pastor And, you know, of course, my lead pastor was my number one client, but I worked was my number one client, but I worked was my number one client, but I worked the the way down the list of everybody the the way down the list of everybody the the way down the list of everybody and everybody mattered. Everybody and everybody mattered. Everybody and everybody mattered. Everybody mattered. Um, and so I just wanted to be mattered. Um, and so I just wanted to be mattered. Um, and so I just wanted to be a servant leader to all. And sometimes I a servant leader to all. And sometimes I a servant leader to all. And sometimes I had to like, had to like, had to like, you know, swallow my pride a little bit you know, swallow my pride a little bit you know, swallow my pride a little bit or certainly apologize when I mess up or certainly apologize when I mess up or certainly apologize when I mess up because that happened a lot. I'd stumble because that happened a lot. I'd stumble because that happened a lot. I'd stumble over myself. But when they messed up or over myself. But when they messed up or over myself. But when they messed up or they changed things, instead of getting they changed things, instead of getting they changed things, instead of getting all, you know, puffy and and arrogant all, you know, puffy and and arrogant all, you know, puffy and and arrogant and, you know, use wrong language and and, you know, use wrong language and and, you know, use wrong language and those thoughts, man, I just had to say,

those thoughts, man, I just had to say, those thoughts, man, I just had to say, I'm a servant leader. It's going to be I'm a servant leader. It's going to be I'm a servant leader. It's going to be okay. God's still in control and the the okay. God's still in control and the the okay. God's still in control and the the event will go on or whatever will event will go on or whatever will event will go on or whatever will happen, it'll happen. It's fine. Jesus happen, it'll happen. It's fine. Jesus happen, it'll happen. It's fine. Jesus is still king. But I say sometimes if is still king. But I say sometimes if is still king. But I say sometimes if you're not if you get in the heated you're not if you get in the heated you're not if you get in the heated moment you say stuff or you send an moment you say stuff or you send an moment you say stuff or you send an email that you do not you would regret email that you do not you would regret email that you do not you would regret that just check yourself check yourself that just check yourself check yourself that just check yourself check yourself and that just comes with a posture I and that just comes with a posture I and that just comes with a posture I think always working on it some of us think always working on it some of us think always working on it some of us have a have the giftedness of always have a have the giftedness of always have a have the giftedness of always doing that and some of us not so much we doing that and some of us not so much we doing that and some of us not so much we need to work on it and uh self-awareness need to work on it and uh self-awareness need to work on it and uh self-awareness is probably probably one of those things is probably probably one of those things is probably probably one of those things as well it all wraps in a bow but yeah as well it all wraps in a bow but yeah as well it all wraps in a bow but yeah that I like that I like that word that I like that I like that word that I like that I like that word >> you're not a doormat, but you do need to >> you're not a doormat, but you do need to >> you're not a doormat, but you do need to be adaptable. be adaptable. be adaptable. >> Yeah. Uh, you know, be Yeah. I mean, our >> Yeah. Uh, you know, be Yeah. I mean, our >> Yeah. Uh, you know, be Yeah. I mean, our goal is to see our church grow sometimes goal is to see our church grow sometimes goal is to see our church grow sometimes that, you know, different seasons of that, you know, different seasons of that, you know, different seasons of growth look differently in different growth look differently in different growth look differently in different churches, right? Yeah. churches, right? Yeah. churches, right? Yeah. >> Um, but as the church grows, as it >> Um, but as the church grows, as it >> Um, but as the church grows, as it expands, um, as the community around us expands, um, as the community around us expands, um, as the community around us that we're trying to reach changes and that we're trying to reach changes and that we're trying to reach changes and morphs, um, adaptability is going to be morphs, um, adaptability is going to be morphs, um, adaptability is going to be huge. You can't expect to be doing the huge. You can't expect to be doing the huge. You can't expect to be doing the same thing the same way all the time.

same thing the same way all the time. same thing the same way all the time. Um, we're not making widgets here. We're Um, we're not making widgets here. We're Um, we're not making widgets here. We're dealing with people. And when you're dealing with people. And when you're dealing with people. And when you're dealing with people, we're also dealing dealing with people, we're also dealing dealing with people, we're also dealing with platforms that we don't control, with platforms that we don't control, with platforms that we don't control, right? A big part of of what you do as a right? A big part of of what you do as a right? A big part of of what you do as a communications director is is built communications director is is built communications director is is built around like social media platforms and around like social media platforms and around like social media platforms and and and and YouTube and and and and and and YouTube and and and and and and YouTube and and and platforms that you don't have a whole platforms that you don't have a whole platforms that you don't have a whole lot of control over. So, adaptability is lot of control over. So, adaptability is lot of control over. So, adaptability is important. Uh, you're dealing with important. Uh, you're dealing with important. Uh, you're dealing with cultural shifts and cultural changes and cultural shifts and cultural changes and cultural shifts and cultural changes and the way that people receive different the way that people receive different the way that people receive different messaging in in different times, right? messaging in in different times, right? messaging in in different times, right? and and as you're writing copy and and and and as you're writing copy and and and and as you're writing copy and and doing communications from an external doing communications from an external doing communications from an external standpoint, you've got to be adaptable. standpoint, you've got to be adaptable. standpoint, you've got to be adaptable. And then, of course, there are things And then, of course, there are things And then, of course, there are things internally that sometimes change in your internally that sometimes change in your internally that sometimes change in your church. I've got a couple of churches church. I've got a couple of churches church. I've got a couple of churches that I'm working with right now that are that I'm working with right now that are that I'm working with right now that are going through significant uh leadership going through significant uh leadership going through significant uh leadership transitions. We have retiring pastors transitions. We have retiring pastors transitions. We have retiring pastors who have been longtime beloved pastors, who have been longtime beloved pastors, who have been longtime beloved pastors, and the culture of the church is going and the culture of the church is going and the culture of the church is going to change internally as they bring on to change internally as they bring on to change internally as they bring on new leaders. And they're going to have new leaders. And they're going to have new leaders. And they're going to have to start working with a new leader. and to start working with a new leader. and to start working with a new leader. and adaptability is going to be one of the adaptability is going to be one of the adaptability is going to be one of the key elements, one of the key key elements, one of the key key elements, one of the key characteristics that they bring to characteristics that they bring to characteristics that they bring to ensuring that they can bring that new ensuring that they can bring that new ensuring that they can bring that new pastor's vision uh to life in the pastor's vision uh to life in the pastor's vision uh to life in the context of the church. So, uh a really context of the church. So, uh a really context of the church. So, uh a really important word here from from Tika important word here from from Tika important word here from from Tika today, those five characteristics in today, those five characteristics in today, those five characteristics in case you missed them are being if you case you missed them are being if you case you missed them are being if you want to be a great comms director, you want to be a great comms director, you want to be a great comms director, you got to be strategic, you got to be got to be strategic, you got to be got to be strategic, you got to be empowering, you got to be organized, you empowering, you got to be organized, you empowering, you got to be organized, you got to be creative, and you got to be got to be creative, and you got to be got to be creative, and you got to be adaptable. Now, I'm going to wrap this adaptable. Now, I'm going to wrap this adaptable. Now, I'm going to wrap this up, but I want to give both of you an up, but I want to give both of you an up, but I want to give both of you an opportunity to have a last word to our opportunity to have a last word to our opportunity to have a last word to our audience today. We'll start with you, audience today. We'll start with you, audience today. We'll start with you, Jason, and then we'll finish with Miss Jason, and then we'll finish with Miss Jason, and then we'll finish with Miss Tikka.

Tikka. Tikka. >> Oh, boy. Uh, you know, um, the these are >> Oh, boy. Uh, you know, um, the these are >> Oh, boy. Uh, you know, um, the these are the kinds of traits that the kinds of traits that the kinds of traits that you you really want to sink into if you you you really want to sink into if you you you really want to sink into if you want to become want to become want to become a great communications uh, director. And a great communications uh, director. And a great communications uh, director. And that's not going to happen overnight. that's not going to happen overnight. that's not going to happen overnight. And it's not going to you're not going And it's not going to you're not going And it's not going to you're not going to naturally get there. I think you've to naturally get there. I think you've to naturally get there. I think you've got to really work towards it and the got to really work towards it and the got to really work towards it and the Lord calls us to serve him with Lord calls us to serve him with Lord calls us to serve him with excellence. Now that that's as you know excellence. Now that that's as you know excellence. Now that that's as you know that's all subjective to you know define that's all subjective to you know define that's all subjective to you know define excellence. It's what you do. You try excellence. It's what you do. You try excellence. It's what you do. You try your best type of a thing. Um I I would your best type of a thing. Um I I would your best type of a thing. Um I I would say just in a last parting shot come to say just in a last parting shot come to say just in a last parting shot come to our conference in the end of September. our conference in the end of September. our conference in the end of September. We've got a church communications We've got a church communications We've got a church communications conference in Kansas City. We're going conference in Kansas City. We're going conference in Kansas City. We're going to dive into this stuff. You're going to to dive into this stuff. You're going to to dive into this stuff. You're going to be surrounded by other comm directors be surrounded by other comm directors be surrounded by other comm directors who are going to love on you but you can who are going to love on you but you can who are going to love on you but you can build relationships with them and build relationships with them and build relationships with them and they'll tell you truth, right? because they'll tell you truth, right? because they'll tell you truth, right? because you want to you you want to share truth you want to you you want to share truth you want to you you want to share truth with them. So, uh register for the with them. So, uh register for the with them. So, uh register for the church communications conference. We're church communications conference. We're church communications conference. We're really pumped to get that put on. It's really pumped to get that put on. It's really pumped to get that put on. It's uh September 23rd to the 25th in Kansas uh September 23rd to the 25th in Kansas uh September 23rd to the 25th in Kansas City.

City. City. >> Tica, your parting shot. >> Tica, your parting shot. >> Tica, your parting shot. >> Oh my goodness. I think you know >> Oh my goodness. I think you know >> Oh my goodness. I think you know ministry is a calling. You have to be ministry is a calling. You have to be ministry is a calling. You have to be called to do ministry and um there's a called to do ministry and um there's a called to do ministry and um there's a lot that goes into it, but I just want lot that goes into it, but I just want lot that goes into it, but I just want to remind all my communers like you're to remind all my communers like you're to remind all my communers like you're called. You're here, you know, for a called. You're here, you know, for a called. You're here, you know, for a reason. You got this. and just, you reason. You got this. and just, you reason. You got this. and just, you know, surround yourself with find other know, surround yourself with find other know, surround yourself with find other constructors and networks and just constructors and networks and just constructors and networks and just really sometimes it's a little really sometimes it's a little really sometimes it's a little isolating. It can feel like you're in a isolating. It can feel like you're in a isolating. It can feel like you're in a little bit of a silo. And so, you know, little bit of a silo. And so, you know, little bit of a silo. And so, you know, just be able to kind of surround just be able to kind of surround just be able to kind of surround yourself by other people who will yourself by other people who will yourself by other people who will understand you and just be able to kind understand you and just be able to kind understand you and just be able to kind of help speak life into you as well. of help speak life into you as well. of help speak life into you as well. But, you got this. You're you're doing a But, you got this. You're you're doing a But, you got this. You're you're doing a great job. Now, you can just kind of great job. Now, you can just kind of great job. Now, you can just kind of >> get a little better. >> get a little better. >> get a little better. >> I'm gonna I'm gonna give I'm gonna give >> I'm gonna I'm gonna give I'm gonna give >> I'm gonna I'm gonna give I'm gonna give you all homework. Okay. Here's here's you all homework. Okay. Here's here's you all homework. Okay. Here's here's your homework. I'm I'm going to your homework. I'm I'm going to your homework. I'm I'm going to recommend another book and which is also recommend another book and which is also recommend another book and which is also not free. Um there's a book that Ken not free. Um there's a book that Ken not free. Um there's a book that Ken Coleman wrote called The Proximity Coleman wrote called The Proximity Coleman wrote called The Proximity Principle. And in in the book, he really Principle. And in in the book, he really Principle. And in in the book, he really talks about how if you want to change, talks about how if you want to change, talks about how if you want to change, if you want to grow, if there's certain if you want to grow, if there's certain if you want to grow, if there's certain elements of your your life and your elements of your your life and your elements of your your life and your character that you want to see morphed, character that you want to see morphed, character that you want to see morphed, one of the best ways to do that is spend one of the best ways to do that is spend one of the best ways to do that is spend time around people who embody those time around people who embody those time around people who embody those things. And so if you're not necessarily things. And so if you're not necessarily things. And so if you're not necessarily naturally a strategic thinker or if naturally a strategic thinker or if naturally a strategic thinker or if you're not the most organized person or you're not the most organized person or you're not the most organized person or any of these other characteristics, make any of these other characteristics, make any of these other characteristics, make a list of the people who you think a list of the people who you think a list of the people who you think embody that and then figure out how you embody that and then figure out how you embody that and then figure out how you can spend more time with them. Uh can spend more time with them. Uh can spend more time with them. Uh because if if if if you see somebody because if if if if you see somebody because if if if if you see somebody who's really strategic in their thinking who's really strategic in their thinking who's really strategic in their thinking and you can spend more time with them and you can spend more time with them and you can spend more time with them and you can have them actually mentor and you can have them actually mentor and you can have them actually mentor you and they don't even have to be a

you and they don't even have to be a you and they don't even have to be a comm's director. They can be anybody comm's director. They can be anybody comm's director. They can be anybody that you know in your life who embodies that you know in your life who embodies that you know in your life who embodies these characteristics. spend more time these characteristics. spend more time these characteristics. spend more time with those people and you'll have an with those people and you'll have an with those people and you'll have an opportunity to to grow in those areas. opportunity to to grow in those areas. opportunity to to grow in those areas. Now, I'm gonna actually shout out one Now, I'm gonna actually shout out one Now, I'm gonna actually shout out one more book and um it's called uh Reaching more book and um it's called uh Reaching more book and um it's called uh Reaching the One. Now, Jason, you and I, we're the One. Now, Jason, you and I, we're the One. Now, Jason, you and I, we're really good marketers, but we've really good marketers, but we've really good marketers, but we've actually been really terrible actually been really terrible actually been really terrible self-promoters. Uh Jason and I released self-promoters. Uh Jason and I released self-promoters. Uh Jason and I released a book this summer uh called Reaching a book this summer uh called Reaching a book this summer uh called Reaching the One, a guide to digital outreach and the One, a guide to digital outreach and the One, a guide to digital outreach and evangelism for the local church. Now, if evangelism for the local church. Now, if evangelism for the local church. Now, if you want to buy a copy, you can go over you want to buy a copy, you can go over you want to buy a copy, you can go over to Amazon and and and and you can find to Amazon and and and and you can find to Amazon and and and and you can find this there. We'll link to it in the show this there. We'll link to it in the show this there. We'll link to it in the show notes show notes. But if if you want a notes show notes. But if if you want a notes show notes. But if if you want a free copy, come to our conference free copy, come to our conference free copy, come to our conference because everybody who comes to our because everybody who comes to our because everybody who comes to our church communications conference will church communications conference will church communications conference will have an opportunity to be given a book have an opportunity to be given a book have an opportunity to be given a book and Jason might even autograph it for and Jason might even autograph it for and Jason might even autograph it for you. Uh I I don't know. Uh we'll see you. Uh I I don't know. Uh we'll see you. Uh I I don't know. Uh we'll see that might be worth something someday or that might be worth something someday or that might be worth something someday or or not. But um the feedback that we've or not. But um the feedback that we've or not. But um the feedback that we've gotten on the book so far has been that gotten on the book so far has been that gotten on the book so far has been that it's been really really helpful for the it's been really really helpful for the it's been really really helpful for the people who have had an opportunity uh to people who have had an opportunity uh to people who have had an opportunity uh to read it. Uh which at this point hasn't read it. Uh which at this point hasn't read it. Uh which at this point hasn't been a whole lot of people because we been a whole lot of people because we been a whole lot of people because we haven't really done a whole lot to haven't really done a whole lot to haven't really done a whole lot to promote it. We've given away a lot of promote it. We've given away a lot of promote it. We've given away a lot of copies but uh and we want to give one to copies but uh and we want to give one to copies but uh and we want to give one to you. So, if you come to the Church you. So, if you come to the Church you. So, if you come to the Church Communications Conference September 23rd Communications Conference September 23rd Communications Conference September 23rd to 25th, uh we'll meet you there and to 25th, uh we'll meet you there and to 25th, uh we'll meet you there and we'll give you a copy of the book. Now, we'll give you a copy of the book. Now, we'll give you a copy of the book. Now, we know that as this podcast is uh being we know that as this podcast is uh being we know that as this podcast is uh being released, this episode is being released, this episode is being released, this episode is being released, it's you're probably pretty released, it's you're probably pretty released, it's you're probably pretty tight on time. If you happen to live in tight on time. If you happen to live in tight on time. If you happen to live in the greater Kansas City area, say within the greater Kansas City area, say within the greater Kansas City area, say within a couple of hours drive away, we a couple of hours drive away, we a couple of hours drive away, we actually do have a one-day pass actually do have a one-day pass actually do have a one-day pass available for the conference, which will available for the conference, which will available for the conference, which will be on the Thursday, which is the 24th.

be on the Thursday, which is the 24th. be on the Thursday, which is the 24th. We have an evening event on Wednesday We have an evening event on Wednesday We have an evening event on Wednesday the 23rd, all day on Thursday the 24th, the 23rd, all day on Thursday the 24th, the 23rd, all day on Thursday the 24th, and then a half day on Friday the 25th. and then a half day on Friday the 25th. and then a half day on Friday the 25th. So, if you just want to come in and out So, if you just want to come in and out So, if you just want to come in and out for the one day, um, because you're for the one day, um, because you're for the one day, um, because you're within driving distance, you can do that within driving distance, you can do that within driving distance, you can do that there. The all the information is on our there. The all the information is on our there. The all the information is on our website, churchcommunications.com, website, churchcommunications.com, website, churchcommunications.com, um, or you can fire us a note, an email, um, or you can fire us a note, an email, um, or you can fire us a note, an email, or give us a call, and we'll help you or give us a call, and we'll help you or give us a call, and we'll help you out in whatever way we can point you in out in whatever way we can point you in out in whatever way we can point you in the right direction. Um, Tikica, so glad the right direction. Um, Tikica, so glad the right direction. Um, Tikica, so glad you're on our team. Thanks for being on you're on our team. Thanks for being on you're on our team. Thanks for being on the show today. For those of you who the show today. For those of you who the show today. For those of you who made it all the way here to the end, made it all the way here to the end, made it all the way here to the end, thank you. This has been episode number thank you. This has been episode number thank you. This has been episode number 187777. 187777. 187777. There's the echo. It comes back every There's the echo. It comes back every There's the echo. It comes back every time I say it. Um, and just a reminder, time I say it. Um, and just a reminder, time I say it. Um, and just a reminder, uh, that we are are we are incredibly uh, that we are are we are incredibly uh, that we are are we are incredibly inconsistent with releasing podcast inconsistent with releasing podcast inconsistent with releasing podcast episodes. Um, but we're trying to do episodes. Um, but we're trying to do episodes. Um, but we're trying to do better. But because we're inconsistent, better. But because we're inconsistent, better. But because we're inconsistent, it'd be a really good idea for you to it'd be a really good idea for you to it'd be a really good idea for you to subscribe wherever you listen to your subscribe wherever you listen to your subscribe wherever you listen to your favorite podcast so that you don't miss favorite podcast so that you don't miss favorite podcast so that you don't miss any future episodes. Because if we go a any future episodes. Because if we go a any future episodes. Because if we go a week or two without one, you might week or two without one, you might week or two without one, you might forget we exist. But if you have forget we exist. But if you have forget we exist. But if you have subscribed, then you know your Spotify subscribed, then you know your Spotify subscribed, then you know your Spotify or your Apple podcast or wherever you or your Apple podcast or wherever you or your Apple podcast or wherever you listen, it'll automatically download it listen, it'll automatically download it listen, it'll automatically download it to your phone, so you won't miss any to your phone, so you won't miss any to your phone, so you won't miss any future episodes. Uh so we hope that future episodes. Uh so we hope that future episodes. Uh so we hope that you'll do that. Uh thanks for tuning in you'll do that. Uh thanks for tuning in you'll do that. Uh thanks for tuning in to the show and we'll see you all the to the show and we'll see you all the to the show and we'll see you all the next time.