Poke Their Pain: How Churches Can Stop Being Invisible to Their Communities | Mark MacDonald

[Music] [Music] And most churches are invisible to their And most churches are invisible to their And most churches are invisible to their communities not because of poor communities not because of poor communities not because of poor ministry, but it's be because of poor ministry, but it's be because of poor ministry, but it's be because of poor messaging. And so, let's figure out how messaging. And so, let's figure out how messaging. And so, let's figure out how do we how do we re in on our thread and do we how do we re in on our thread and do we how do we re in on our thread and then make sure that that messaging is is then make sure that that messaging is is then make sure that that messaging is is done with a strategy in mind. done with a strategy in mind. done with a strategy in mind. >> Welcome to another episode of the >> Welcome to another episode of the >> Welcome to another episode of the Missional Marketing Podcast. My name is Missional Marketing Podcast. My name is Missional Marketing Podcast. My name is Bart Blair. I'm the co-host of the show Bart Blair. I'm the co-host of the show Bart Blair. I'm the co-host of the show and the brand director for Missional and the brand director for Missional and the brand director for Missional Marketing. It's my pleasure to welcome Marketing. It's my pleasure to welcome Marketing. It's my pleasure to welcome you to this episode. If you happen to be you to this episode. If you happen to be you to this episode. If you happen to be new to our podcast, uh we hope that you new to our podcast, uh we hope that you new to our podcast, uh we hope that you will subscribe wherever you listen to will subscribe wherever you listen to will subscribe wherever you listen to your favorite podcast so that you don't your favorite podcast so that you don't your favorite podcast so that you don't miss any future episodes. We've been miss any future episodes. We've been miss any future episodes. We've been producing this podcast since 2020 to producing this podcast since 2020 to producing this podcast since 2020 to help churches grow by leveraging digital help churches grow by leveraging digital help churches grow by leveraging digital marketing and effective communications. marketing and effective communications. marketing and effective communications. And today, uh, my podcasting partner, And today, uh, my podcasting partner, And today, uh, my podcasting partner, Jason Hamrock, who is the CEO, uh, he Jason Hamrock, who is the CEO, uh, he Jason Hamrock, who is the CEO, uh, he and I had an opportunity to sit down and I had an opportunity to sit down and I had an opportunity to sit down with one of our friends, Mark McDonald, with one of our friends, Mark McDonald, with one of our friends, Mark McDonald, from the agency Be Known for Something, from the agency Be Known for Something, from the agency Be Known for Something, and, uh, have a conversation about, uh, and, uh, have a conversation about, uh, and, uh, have a conversation about, uh, poking people's pain. Uh, it sounds like poking people's pain. Uh, it sounds like poking people's pain. Uh, it sounds like a mean thing to do, but, in the end, I a mean thing to do, but, in the end, I a mean thing to do, but, in the end, I think you'll understand why we want to think you'll understand why we want to think you'll understand why we want to poke people's pain. Mark is actually poke people's pain. Mark is actually poke people's pain. Mark is actually going to be one of the keynote speakers going to be one of the keynote speakers going to be one of the keynote speakers at our upcoming church communications at our upcoming church communications at our upcoming church communications conference that's happening September conference that's happening September conference that's happening September 17th to 19th in Chicago. We talk about 17th to 19th in Chicago. We talk about 17th to 19th in Chicago. We talk about that a little bit on this podcast that a little bit on this podcast that a little bit on this podcast episode. You can also check the show episode. You can also check the show episode. You can also check the show notes of this episode and get all the notes of this episode and get all the notes of this episode and get all the details that you need in order to attend details that you need in order to attend details that you need in order to attend that conference. We hope that you will.

that conference. We hope that you will. that conference. We hope that you will. Uh this will be uh the first time we've Uh this will be uh the first time we've Uh this will be uh the first time we've done a conference in Chicago. We've done done a conference in Chicago. We've done done a conference in Chicago. We've done a road show in Chicago. First time we've a road show in Chicago. First time we've a road show in Chicago. First time we've done a conference there. And we're done a conference there. And we're done a conference there. And we're really looking forward to hanging out really looking forward to hanging out really looking forward to hanging out with a lot of church leaders and with a lot of church leaders and with a lot of church leaders and communications directors from around the communications directors from around the communications directors from around the country uh for a couple of days uh to country uh for a couple of days uh to country uh for a couple of days uh to lean in and learn how we can be more lean in and learn how we can be more lean in and learn how we can be more effective at uh helping our churches effective at uh helping our churches effective at uh helping our churches communicate our message, communicate the communicate our message, communicate the communicate our message, communicate the message of the gospel, and reach more message of the gospel, and reach more message of the gospel, and reach more people in our community for Jesus. Uh people in our community for Jesus. Uh people in our community for Jesus. Uh well, I am uh yeah, I'm going to I'm well, I am uh yeah, I'm going to I'm well, I am uh yeah, I'm going to I'm going to wrap up this intro and get on going to wrap up this intro and get on going to wrap up this intro and get on with the conversation. I hope that with the conversation. I hope that with the conversation. I hope that you'll find it uh super helpful, super you'll find it uh super helpful, super you'll find it uh super helpful, super beneficial. If you do, make sure that beneficial. If you do, make sure that beneficial. If you do, make sure that you share it with a friend. So, without you share it with a friend. So, without you share it with a friend. So, without any further delay, here's Jason Hamrock any further delay, here's Jason Hamrock any further delay, here's Jason Hamrock and my conversation with Mr. Mark and my conversation with Mr. Mark and my conversation with Mr. Mark McDonald. McDonald. McDonald. >> Well, hey Mark. Welcome uh back to the >> Well, hey Mark. Welcome uh back to the >> Well, hey Mark. Welcome uh back to the podcast. How you doing, man? podcast. How you doing, man? podcast. How you doing, man? >> I Things are going so well and I hope >> I Things are going so well and I hope >> I Things are going so well and I hope things are going well for you, too. things are going well for you, too. things are going well for you, too. >> They are. Yeah. It's It's like It's kind >> They are. Yeah. It's It's like It's kind >> They are. Yeah. It's It's like It's kind of like ministry. It never slows down. of like ministry. It never slows down. of like ministry. It never slows down. It's Which is great. Um, but it's it's It's Which is great. Um, but it's it's It's Which is great. Um, but it's it's so fun because here we are the tail end so fun because here we are the tail end so fun because here we are the tail end of summer getting ready for the fall and of summer getting ready for the fall and of summer getting ready for the fall and kind of the winter season and and for kind of the winter season and and for kind of the winter season and and for the church world that means like a fresh the church world that means like a fresh the church world that means like a fresh new ministry year usually. So yeah, do new ministry year usually. So yeah, do new ministry year usually. So yeah, do do you remember like I I can still do you remember like I I can still do you remember like I I can still remember that feeling when you sit down remember that feeling when you sit down remember that feeling when you sit down in in in >> in your first time in your class and you >> in your first time in your class and you >> in your first time in your class and you get to open up a fresh new notebook and get to open up a fresh new notebook and get to open up a fresh new notebook and you get to it's like that feeling of I'm you get to it's like that feeling of I'm you get to it's like that feeling of I'm going to write something on the f the going to write something on the f the going to write something on the f the first page. It's like I want to make

first page. It's like I want to make first page. It's like I want to make sure that it's meaningful and then by sure that it's meaningful and then by sure that it's meaningful and then by the second page you don't care. Yeah, the second page you don't care. Yeah, the second page you don't care. Yeah, that's Yeah, I I definitely remember that's Yeah, I I definitely remember that's Yeah, I I definitely remember those days. Yeah. And and it's it's those days. Yeah. And and it's it's those days. Yeah. And and it's it's interesting because it's like with with interesting because it's like with with interesting because it's like with with ministry, people get excited about the ministry, people get excited about the ministry, people get excited about the summer, their plans, and they get ready summer, their plans, and they get ready summer, their plans, and they get ready to launch in the fall. I got a call to launch in the fall. I got a call to launch in the fall. I got a call today with a church that's doing just today with a church that's doing just today with a church that's doing just that, and they want some advice on how that, and they want some advice on how that, and they want some advice on how do we really increase our small group do we really increase our small group do we really increase our small group attendance. So, it's like a kind of the attendance. So, it's like a kind of the attendance. So, it's like a kind of the same thing. It's like, okay, we're at same thing. It's like, okay, we're at same thing. It's like, okay, we're at the drawing board and how do we how do the drawing board and how do we how do the drawing board and how do we how do we move forward communicating and we move forward communicating and we move forward communicating and growing uh more disciples in our church? growing uh more disciples in our church? growing uh more disciples in our church? So, yeah, it's kind of the same thing, So, yeah, it's kind of the same thing, So, yeah, it's kind of the same thing, just a little bit different. just a little bit different. just a little bit different. >> What's interesting, >> What's interesting, >> What's interesting, >> I was going to say what's interesting to >> I was going to say what's interesting to >> I was going to say what's interesting to me is we're, you know, we're recording me is we're, you know, we're recording me is we're, you know, we're recording this in early August and and our this in early August and and our this in early August and and our audience will be listening to this audience will be listening to this audience will be listening to this sometime in early to mid August as well. sometime in early to mid August as well. sometime in early to mid August as well. And I've been having calls with churches And I've been having calls with churches And I've been having calls with churches and one of the things that has been and one of the things that has been and one of the things that has been really unique this year and maybe last really unique this year and maybe last really unique this year and maybe last is that the schools are starting earlier is that the schools are starting earlier is that the schools are starting earlier and earlier. So, what we used to kind of and earlier. So, what we used to kind of and earlier. So, what we used to kind of classify as summer, kind of that that classify as summer, kind of that that classify as summer, kind of that that June to August, we're having meetings June to August, we're having meetings June to August, we're having meetings here with churches at the end of July here with churches at the end of July here with churches at the end of July and the beginning of June and and and the beginning of June and and and the beginning of June and and they're like, "Well, summer is done."

they're like, "Well, summer is done." they're like, "Well, summer is done." Like, we're already on to the fall. Kids Like, we're already on to the fall. Kids Like, we're already on to the fall. Kids are all back in school. What we used to are all back in school. What we used to are all back in school. What we used to call fall kickoffs are really now kind call fall kickoffs are really now kind call fall kickoffs are really now kind of like of like of like >> end of summer windown fall kickoff sort >> end of summer windown fall kickoff sort >> end of summer windown fall kickoff sort of thing. So, it's a really I'm I'm sure of thing. So, it's a really I'm I'm sure of thing. So, it's a really I'm I'm sure that those that are listening can relate that those that are listening can relate that those that are listening can relate to that very well. You know, hopefully to that very well. You know, hopefully to that very well. You know, hopefully got a break. got a break. got a break. >> What are you finding? What are you >> What are you finding? What are you >> What are you finding? What are you finding? Because in my mind, uh, school finding? Because in my mind, uh, school finding? Because in my mind, uh, school started after Labor Day. That's when we started after Labor Day. That's when we started after Labor Day. That's when we went back. And now when it's going back went back. And now when it's going back went back. And now when it's going back in August, what are you finding? Because in August, what are you finding? Because in August, what are you finding? Because I'm hearing from a lot of pastors that I I'm hearing from a lot of pastors that I I'm hearing from a lot of pastors that I talked to, talked to, talked to, >> they're confused as to whether we still >> they're confused as to whether we still >> they're confused as to whether we still launch in September or whether we launch launch in September or whether we launch launch in September or whether we launch in August now. And a lot of lot of in August now. And a lot of lot of in August now. And a lot of lot of churches are kind of postponing it into churches are kind of postponing it into churches are kind of postponing it into September even though schools are going September even though schools are going September even though schools are going back. What are you guys hearing? back. What are you guys hearing? back. What are you guys hearing? >> A little bit of different. What more >> A little bit of different. What more >> A little bit of different. What more compounds it is if you're a multiacampus compounds it is if you're a multiacampus compounds it is if you're a multiacampus site and you have different campuses in site and you have different campuses in site and you have different campuses in different cities, you might have different cities, you might have different cities, you might have different schedules around the school different schedules around the school different schedules around the school districts. districts. districts. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So I I have I here in Arizona there's >> So I I have I here in Arizona there's >> So I I have I here in Arizona there's schools that started in mid July schools that started in mid July schools that started in mid July >> and then some are starting now.

>> and then some are starting now. >> and then some are starting now. >> And so I think you kind of have to >> And so I think you kind of have to >> And so I think you kind of have to balance that to go when when's just balance that to go when when's just balance that to go when when's just going to be the best. I I do like the going to be the best. I I do like the going to be the best. I I do like the after Labor Day type of thing, but it after Labor Day type of thing, but it after Labor Day type of thing, but it seems to me that most families will kind seems to me that most families will kind seems to me that most families will kind of get into the routine and the rhythm of get into the routine and the rhythm of get into the routine and the rhythm of back to school. So, it's a great of back to school. So, it's a great of back to school. So, it's a great opportunity to kind of figure out that's opportunity to kind of figure out that's opportunity to kind of figure out that's when you want to get them back to when you want to get them back to when you want to get them back to church. You might push an event off till church. You might push an event off till church. You might push an event off till maybe the later August or early maybe the later August or early maybe the later August or early September, but it seems like you just September, but it seems like you just September, but it seems like you just want to be mindful of when do your want to be mindful of when do your want to be mindful of when do your people people people >> kind of get back into their, you know, >> kind of get back into their, you know, >> kind of get back into their, you know, their rhythm of a what we call our fall. their rhythm of a what we call our fall. their rhythm of a what we call our fall. >> Yeah. Mark, you you grew up you grew up >> Yeah. Mark, you you grew up you grew up >> Yeah. Mark, you you grew up you grew up in Canada. I lived in Canada for 20 in Canada. I lived in Canada for 20 in Canada. I lived in Canada for 20 years, and my kids grew up in Canada, years, and my kids grew up in Canada, years, and my kids grew up in Canada, and and the school year in Canada does and and the school year in Canada does and and the school year in Canada does tend to go a little bit later in the tend to go a little bit later in the tend to go a little bit later in the spring, like well into June. In fact, spring, like well into June. In fact, spring, like well into June. In fact, when I lived in Alberta, the kids were when I lived in Alberta, the kids were when I lived in Alberta, the kids were in school almost to the very end of in school almost to the very end of in school almost to the very end of June, and we didn't go back to school June, and we didn't go back to school June, and we didn't go back to school until after Labor Day in September. until after Labor Day in September. until after Labor Day in September. That's I think in in the United States, That's I think in in the United States, That's I think in in the United States, that's that's long past. I think New that's that's long past. I think New that's that's long past. I think New York City and the New York schools still York City and the New York schools still York City and the New York schools still start after Labor Day. that I I still start after Labor Day. that I I still start after Labor Day. that I I still think uh those of us who are adulting, think uh those of us who are adulting, think uh those of us who are adulting, we still even though our kids may be we still even though our kids may be we still even though our kids may be starting in August or even in July, starting in August or even in July, starting in August or even in July, mentally, we still think about that mentally, we still think about that mentally, we still think about that Labor Day weekend as the end of summer.

Labor Day weekend as the end of summer. Labor Day weekend as the end of summer. And so, when I'm coaching churches, I I And so, when I'm coaching churches, I I And so, when I'm coaching churches, I I really try to help them uh try to think really try to help them uh try to think really try to help them uh try to think about the the the mindset of the people about the the the mindset of the people about the the the mindset of the people in their church. I think people still do in their church. I think people still do in their church. I think people still do kind of a last hurrah Labor Day weekend. kind of a last hurrah Labor Day weekend. kind of a last hurrah Labor Day weekend. if they're going to travel, one more if they're going to travel, one more if they're going to travel, one more trip to the lake, one more trip to the trip to the lake, one more trip to the trip to the lake, one more trip to the cottage, whatever it is that they're cottage, whatever it is that they're cottage, whatever it is that they're going to do. So, I'm like, that could be going to do. So, I'm like, that could be going to do. So, I'm like, that could be a rather disruptive weekend. So, if a rather disruptive weekend. So, if a rather disruptive weekend. So, if you're launching a sermon series in the you're launching a sermon series in the you're launching a sermon series in the middle of August, and then you've got middle of August, and then you've got middle of August, and then you've got the Labor Day weekend right in the the Labor Day weekend right in the the Labor Day weekend right in the middle, you might lose momentum for that middle, you might lose momentum for that middle, you might lose momentum for that fall sermon series. So, you know, if you fall sermon series. So, you know, if you fall sermon series. So, you know, if you can package something for August and can package something for August and can package something for August and then kind of, you know, b your time then kind of, you know, b your time then kind of, you know, b your time through the Labor Day weekend and then through the Labor Day weekend and then through the Labor Day weekend and then really start your seasonal push, your really start your seasonal push, your really start your seasonal push, your fall seasonal push after the after the fall seasonal push after the after the fall seasonal push after the after the Labor Day weekend. That's that's the way Labor Day weekend. That's that's the way Labor Day weekend. That's that's the way I tend to coach churches. I tend to coach churches. I tend to coach churches. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And that's probably wise. I I mean, we >> And that's probably wise. I I mean, we >> And that's probably wise. I I mean, we know that COVID kind of interrupted the know that COVID kind of interrupted the know that COVID kind of interrupted the the main routine and and summer kind of the main routine and and summer kind of the main routine and and summer kind of interrupts the main routine. And at a interrupts the main routine. And at a interrupts the main routine. And at a certain point, families are getting back certain point, families are getting back certain point, families are getting back to what is our routine? What are we to what is our routine? What are we to what is our routine? What are we actually going to how are we going to actually going to how are we going to actually going to how are we going to pace ourselves? And how do we make sure pace ourselves? And how do we make sure pace ourselves? And how do we make sure that that we have some regular stuff that that we have some regular stuff that that we have some regular stuff that's going on? And and we just want to that's going on? And and we just want to that's going on? And and we just want to make sure that the church is back in make sure that the church is back in make sure that the church is back in there cuz those people who have somewhat there cuz those people who have somewhat there cuz those people who have somewhat taken a break from from church world taken a break from from church world taken a break from from church world during the summer that as they start during the summer that as they start during the summer that as they start thinking about the the new routine that thinking about the the new routine that thinking about the the new routine that they get into, church just needs to be they get into, church just needs to be they get into, church just needs to be uh part of that conversation.

uh part of that conversation. uh part of that conversation. >> Totally. >> Totally. >> Totally. >> Hey, you know what guys, let me let me >> Hey, you know what guys, let me let me >> Hey, you know what guys, let me let me press pause here for just a second press pause here for just a second press pause here for just a second because we're like already into like 10 because we're like already into like 10 because we're like already into like 10 minutes into this podcast and there may minutes into this podcast and there may minutes into this podcast and there may be people listening to this episode who be people listening to this episode who be people listening to this episode who have no idea who Mark McDonald is. have no idea who Mark McDonald is. have no idea who Mark McDonald is. Actually, they may not have any idea who Actually, they may not have any idea who Actually, they may not have any idea who Bart Blair or Jason Hamrock are either. Bart Blair or Jason Hamrock are either. Bart Blair or Jason Hamrock are either. Um, but yeah, Mark's a longtime friend Um, but yeah, Mark's a longtime friend Um, but yeah, Mark's a longtime friend of the podcast, been on the show of the podcast, been on the show of the podcast, been on the show multiple times. Mark, why don't you like multiple times. Mark, why don't you like multiple times. Mark, why don't you like give us a little bit of your story and give us a little bit of your story and give us a little bit of your story and just share with our audience who you are just share with our audience who you are just share with our audience who you are and what you do. and what you do. and what you do. >> Now, anytime that somebody's recording a >> Now, anytime that somebody's recording a >> Now, anytime that somebody's recording a podcast and they say, "Let's press podcast and they say, "Let's press podcast and they say, "Let's press pause," that always gives that feeling pause," that always gives that feeling pause," that always gives that feeling of, "What have I just said?" of, "What have I just said?" of, "What have I just said?" I am Mark McDonald and I I grew up in I am Mark McDonald and I I grew up in I am Mark McDonald and I I grew up in Canada from New Brunswick and now I live Canada from New Brunswick and now I live Canada from New Brunswick and now I live in Jacksonville, Florida and I am a in Jacksonville, Florida and I am a in Jacksonville, Florida and I am a somewhat new American citizen. Uh but I somewhat new American citizen. Uh but I somewhat new American citizen. Uh but I I run be known for something church I run be known for something church I run be known for something church branding uh company and you know I've branding uh company and you know I've branding uh company and you know I've spent decades helping churches just spent decades helping churches just spent decades helping churches just control what they're known for. control what they're known for. control what they're known for. Sometimes when we leave it to the Sometimes when we leave it to the Sometimes when we leave it to the individual church, we just talk too much individual church, we just talk too much individual church, we just talk too much and and oftenimes people become and and oftenimes people become and and oftenimes people become overwhelmed with all the messages and overwhelmed with all the messages and overwhelmed with all the messages and they just they ignore what doesn't feel they just they ignore what doesn't feel they just they ignore what doesn't feel helpful. So we as a an agency, we help helpful. So we as a an agency, we help helpful. So we as a an agency, we help ministries discover a thread that ministries discover a thread that ministries discover a thread that connects their congregation to their connects their congregation to their connects their congregation to their community.

community. community. uh you know, we've helped thousands of uh you know, we've helped thousands of uh you know, we've helped thousands of churches and uh whether they're small or churches and uh whether they're small or churches and uh whether they're small or all the way up to mega size. Uh but we all the way up to mega size. Uh but we all the way up to mega size. Uh but we help them cut through noise so that help them cut through noise so that help them cut through noise so that people return and become friends with people return and become friends with people return and become friends with the church. the church. the church. >> Yeah, I love that. Yeah, you got a great >> Yeah, I love that. Yeah, you got a great >> Yeah, I love that. Yeah, you got a great a great ministry really. Uh that's a great ministry really. Uh that's a great ministry really. Uh that's really helping a lot of churches. It's really helping a lot of churches. It's really helping a lot of churches. It's it's so cool. So, thanks for thanks for it's so cool. So, thanks for thanks for it's so cool. So, thanks for thanks for being on the podcast. Um you wrote being on the podcast. Um you wrote being on the podcast. Um you wrote something this I want to dive into some something this I want to dive into some something this I want to dive into some stuff. you you said something not too stuff. you you said something not too stuff. you you said something not too long ago uh where you posted you said long ago uh where you posted you said long ago uh where you posted you said your people don't need another sermon your people don't need another sermon your people don't need another sermon they need a better solution they need a better solution they need a better solution and okay that's a big statement people and okay that's a big statement people and okay that's a big statement people don't need another sermon they need don't need another sermon they need don't need another sermon they need another a better solution what what uh another a better solution what what uh another a better solution what what uh what let's unpack that what do you mean what let's unpack that what do you mean what let's unpack that what do you mean by that by that by that >> okay so it's interesting because uh I >> okay so it's interesting because uh I >> okay so it's interesting because uh I get to speak at a bunch of conferences get to speak at a bunch of conferences get to speak at a bunch of conferences I'm speaking at your conference I'm I'm speaking at your conference I'm I'm speaking at your conference I'm really excited about that really excited about that really excited about that >> and and I don't know about you all but >> and and I don't know about you all but >> and and I don't know about you all but when I prepare for what I'm going to when I prepare for what I'm going to when I prepare for what I'm going to say. Oftentimes the Holy Spirit allows say. Oftentimes the Holy Spirit allows say. Oftentimes the Holy Spirit allows me to say some things that I go, "Oh, me to say some things that I go, "Oh, me to say some things that I go, "Oh, that's interesting." And then I have to that's interesting." And then I have to that's interesting." And then I have to unpack that later thinking it is unpack that later thinking it is unpack that later thinking it is actually something that that people need actually something that that people need actually something that that people need to hear. And so to hear. And so to hear. And so that's one of my quote uh graphics. And that's one of my quote uh graphics. And that's one of my quote uh graphics. And if people follow me on on Instagram or if people follow me on on Instagram or if people follow me on on Instagram or or Facebook or LinkedIn or any of those, or Facebook or LinkedIn or any of those, or Facebook or LinkedIn or any of those, they'll see those those quotes. I saw it they'll see those those quotes. I saw it they'll see those those quotes. I saw it on all three, which is what got my on all three, which is what got my on all three, which is what got my attention. I'm like, Mark's trying to attention. I'm like, Mark's trying to attention. I'm like, Mark's trying to stir a pot here of some sort.

stir a pot here of some sort. stir a pot here of some sort. >> Well, you know, it did stir up a >> Well, you know, it did stir up a >> Well, you know, it did stir up a conversation. Um, and I guess that I one conversation. Um, and I guess that I one conversation. Um, and I guess that I one thing that I never want to be known for thing that I never want to be known for thing that I never want to be known for is knocking the church. Um, I love the is knocking the church. Um, I love the is knocking the church. Um, I love the church. I am part of the church and I church. I am part of the church and I church. I am part of the church and I totally support what the church is totally support what the church is totally support what the church is trying to do in the in the uh in their trying to do in the in the uh in their trying to do in the in the uh in their communities. And it's tough and it's communities. And it's tough and it's communities. And it's tough and it's getting harder and harder for things to getting harder and harder for things to getting harder and harder for things to actually break through. And I'm actually break through. And I'm actually break through. And I'm certainly not knocking sermons with that certainly not knocking sermons with that certainly not knocking sermons with that quote, even though it came across that quote, even though it came across that quote, even though it came across that way a little bit at the very beginning. way a little bit at the very beginning. way a little bit at the very beginning. Instead, I'm just trying to challenge Instead, I'm just trying to challenge Instead, I'm just trying to challenge how we actually define success. And I how we actually define success. And I how we actually define success. And I think every church needs to do that. Our think every church needs to do that. Our think every church needs to do that. Our audience is drowning in content. There's audience is drowning in content. There's audience is drowning in content. There's so much content. You know, everyone so much content. You know, everyone so much content. You know, everyone wants to talk about AI right now. AI is wants to talk about AI right now. AI is wants to talk about AI right now. AI is just putting out a whole bunch more just putting out a whole bunch more just putting out a whole bunch more content that we don't have to actually content that we don't have to actually content that we don't have to actually do. So, as that content spewing forth, do. So, as that content spewing forth, do. So, as that content spewing forth, the noise problem that we had before is the noise problem that we had before is the noise problem that we had before is actually growing. Um, and it and what I actually growing. Um, and it and what I actually growing. Um, and it and what I have found is that what most people are have found is that what most people are have found is that what most people are truly craving is a biblical solution to truly craving is a biblical solution to truly craving is a biblical solution to their felt need, not just, you know, their felt need, not just, you know, their felt need, not just, you know, throwing out biblical content and throwing out biblical content and throwing out biblical content and expecting people to actually be expecting people to actually be expecting people to actually be transformed by it. You know, if your transformed by it. You know, if your transformed by it. You know, if your sermon doesn't connect with their Monday

sermon doesn't connect with their Monday sermon doesn't connect with their Monday pain, they'll forget it by Sunday pain, they'll forget it by Sunday pain, they'll forget it by Sunday dinner. dinner. dinner. Absolut 100%. And and just to kind of Absolut 100%. And and just to kind of Absolut 100%. And and just to kind of piggy back on that, it really should piggy back on that, it really should piggy back on that, it really should revolve around helping them become revolve around helping them become revolve around helping them become better followers of Jesus because we better followers of Jesus because we better followers of Jesus because we know that's the solution to every felt know that's the solution to every felt know that's the solution to every felt need issue is if you're a disciple and need issue is if you're a disciple and need issue is if you're a disciple and following him. That doesn't mean that following him. That doesn't mean that following him. That doesn't mean that you're not going to have problems in you're not going to have problems in you're not going to have problems in this world. Okay, that by any stretch, this world. Okay, that by any stretch, this world. Okay, that by any stretch, but you're what you're saying, I think but you're what you're saying, I think but you're what you're saying, I think is the content that what you're teaching is the content that what you're teaching is the content that what you're teaching is the solution is teach them how to is the solution is teach them how to is the solution is teach them how to follow him better. that hits home on follow him better. that hits home on follow him better. that hits home on whatever it is they're dealing with. whatever it is they're dealing with. whatever it is they're dealing with. >> Well, I think that we have to realize >> Well, I think that we have to realize >> Well, I think that we have to realize that information isn't transformation. that information isn't transformation. that information isn't transformation. We need to stop preaching sermons that We need to stop preaching sermons that We need to stop preaching sermons that don't solve anything. don't solve anything. don't solve anything. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's really tricky. It's really it's a >> It's really tricky. It's really it's a >> It's really tricky. It's really it's a really tricky thing. Uh you know, I I I really tricky thing. Uh you know, I I I really tricky thing. Uh you know, I I I had two calls I've had two calls this had two calls I've had two calls this had two calls I've had two calls this week with churches uh that we have the week with churches uh that we have the week with churches uh that we have the opportunity to to serve at Missional opportunity to to serve at Missional opportunity to to serve at Missional Marketing. both of those churches um Marketing. both of those churches um Marketing. both of those churches um they would say that they're distinctive they would say that they're distinctive they would say that they're distinctive in their community is their verse byvere in their community is their verse byvere in their community is their verse byvere expository preaching and so what I and expository preaching and so what I and expository preaching and so what I and that's you know what that's my pre that's you know what that's my pre that's you know what that's my pre preferred method as well is verse byvere preferred method as well is verse byvere preferred method as well is verse byvere expository preaching I'm a I'm a pastor expository preaching I'm a I'm a pastor expository preaching I'm a I'm a pastor I'm a church planter it's what my uh I'm a church planter it's what my uh I'm a church planter it's what my uh group of people that I work with I serve group of people that I work with I serve group of people that I work with I serve with that's what we tend to lean towards with that's what we tend to lean towards with that's what we tend to lean towards not that we don't do topical preaching not that we don't do topical preaching not that we don't do topical preaching sometimes but I think you're you're sometimes but I think you're you're sometimes but I think you're you're right Mark that even within the context right Mark that even within the context right Mark that even within the context context of a verse by verse ex of Jesus context of a verse by verse ex of Jesus context of a verse by verse ex of Jesus and expositional preaching, we still

and expositional preaching, we still and expositional preaching, we still have to figure out what the application have to figure out what the application have to figure out what the application is because it's not enough for us to is because it's not enough for us to is because it's not enough for us to just be knowers of the word. As James just be knowers of the word. As James just be knowers of the word. As James says, we need to be doers of the word. says, we need to be doers of the word. says, we need to be doers of the word. And you can't do the word if you don't And you can't do the word if you don't And you can't do the word if you don't understand why the Greek words matter. understand why the Greek words matter. understand why the Greek words matter. You know, we can go through it verse by You know, we can go through it verse by You know, we can go through it verse by verse, word by word, you know, Greek, verse, word by word, you know, Greek, verse, word by word, you know, Greek, uh, you know, conjugate conjugate the uh, you know, conjugate conjugate the uh, you know, conjugate conjugate the verbs and all that stuff that we do. Um, verbs and all that stuff that we do. Um, verbs and all that stuff that we do. Um, but if it doesn't lead to life change, but if it doesn't lead to life change, but if it doesn't lead to life change, if it doesn't lead to the transformation if it doesn't lead to the transformation if it doesn't lead to the transformation that you just alluded to, uh, we're that you just alluded to, uh, we're that you just alluded to, uh, we're really we're really I think we're really really we're really I think we're really really we're really I think we're really shortelling number one, what scripture shortelling number one, what scripture shortelling number one, what scripture is actually able to do in our lives. And is actually able to do in our lives. And is actually able to do in our lives. And secondly, we shortch change the people secondly, we shortch change the people secondly, we shortch change the people in our churches who are coming not just in our churches who are coming not just in our churches who are coming not just to walk out the door with a few more to walk out the door with a few more to walk out the door with a few more Bible nerd nuggets in their back pocket, Bible nerd nuggets in their back pocket, Bible nerd nuggets in their back pocket, but to actually experience God in a way but to actually experience God in a way but to actually experience God in a way that transforms and changes their lives. that transforms and changes their lives. that transforms and changes their lives. Well, and it's interesting because uh Well, and it's interesting because uh Well, and it's interesting because uh sometimes we're biblical nerds. Like we sometimes we're biblical nerds. Like we sometimes we're biblical nerds. Like we love getting into the etmologies and all love getting into the etmologies and all love getting into the etmologies and all of the, you know, Greek and Hebrew and of the, you know, Greek and Hebrew and of the, you know, Greek and Hebrew and and and like what's the historical and and like what's the historical and and like what's the historical values of all of this stuff, but the values of all of this stuff, but the values of all of this stuff, but the average person in your pews clouds over average person in your pews clouds over average person in your pews clouds over if you don't tie that to some type of a if you don't tie that to some type of a if you don't tie that to some type of a felt need. you know, oftentimes, felt need. you know, oftentimes, felt need. you know, oftentimes, um, you know, we're we're doing the um, you know, we're we're doing the um, you know, we're we're doing the research to figure out who the community research to figure out who the community research to figure out who the community is that the church is trying to, uh, you is that the church is trying to, uh, you is that the church is trying to, uh, you know, to relate to. And what we often know, to relate to. And what we often know, to relate to. And what we often times find is that the congregation is times find is that the congregation is times find is that the congregation is oftenimes much older than their oftenimes much older than their oftenimes much older than their community. and we're inviting the

community. and we're inviting the community. and we're inviting the community to come in and they're they're community to come in and they're they're community to come in and they're they're walking into the room and they're just walking into the room and they're just walking into the room and they're just thinking so it's just so much older than thinking so it's just so much older than thinking so it's just so much older than me. So they don't feel like that they're me. So they don't feel like that they're me. So they don't feel like that they're part of that. So oftenimes pastors say part of that. So oftenimes pastors say part of that. So oftenimes pastors say to me, "So to me, "So to me, "So what do I do? I'm older than the what do I do? I'm older than the what do I do? I'm older than the community. community. community. How do I relate to those people?" And How do I relate to those people?" And How do I relate to those people?" And oftenimes what it means is that they oftenimes what it means is that they oftenimes what it means is that they need to start uh telling stories about need to start uh telling stories about need to start uh telling stories about their not their own life uh stage but their not their own life uh stage but their not their own life uh stage but the life stage of the community. So if the life stage of the community. So if the life stage of the community. So if you're expecting to reach 30somes, you're expecting to reach 30somes, you're expecting to reach 30somes, you've got to tell stories that relate you've got to tell stories that relate you've got to tell stories that relate to 30somes. So if you're constantly to 30somes. So if you're constantly to 30somes. So if you're constantly talking about your grandchildren or your talking about your grandchildren or your talking about your grandchildren or your greatg grandandchildren, the 30somes are greatg grandandchildren, the 30somes are greatg grandandchildren, the 30somes are going, I don't even know what that going, I don't even know what that going, I don't even know what that means. that's that doesn't relate to me means. that's that doesn't relate to me means. that's that doesn't relate to me at all. And and there's where when we're at all. And and there's where when we're at all. And and there's where when we're when we're preaching and and I I when we're preaching and and I I when we're preaching and and I I normally stay far far away from telling normally stay far far away from telling normally stay far far away from telling a preacher how to preach. So So this is a preacher how to preach. So So this is a preacher how to preach. So So this is like me just crossing the line. Thank like me just crossing the line. Thank like me just crossing the line. Thank you very much. But but what when when you very much. But but what when when you very much. But but what when when people are preaching the the worst type people are preaching the the worst type people are preaching the the worst type of sermons as a communications person of sermons as a communications person of sermons as a communications person sitting in the pew is when after you sitting in the pew is when after you sitting in the pew is when after you know 30 40 50 minutes of hearing all know 30 40 50 minutes of hearing all know 30 40 50 minutes of hearing all what the Bible says the pastor says so what the Bible says the pastor says so what the Bible says the pastor says so let's apply this to our lives and the let's apply this to our lives and the let's apply this to our lives and the last five minutes is what what actually

last five minutes is what what actually last five minutes is what what actually interests me it's instead we need to interests me it's instead we need to interests me it's instead we need to integrate our stories we need to integrate our stories we need to integrate our stories we need to integrate the the solution to the felt integrate the the solution to the felt integrate the the solution to the felt need all the way through scripture so need all the way through scripture so need all the way through scripture so that people understand that this is for that people understand that this is for that people understand that this is for me. You know, our our main formula here me. You know, our our main formula here me. You know, our our main formula here at Be Known for Something is say their at Be Known for Something is say their at Be Known for Something is say their name, speak their pain, solutions to name, speak their pain, solutions to name, speak their pain, solutions to proclaim. If you don't say their name proclaim. If you don't say their name proclaim. If you don't say their name first and then speak their pain that first and then speak their pain that first and then speak their pain that you're actually you're trying to solve, you're actually you're trying to solve, you're actually you're trying to solve, people don't understand that the people don't understand that the people don't understand that the solution is for them. So, we have to solution is for them. So, we have to solution is for them. So, we have to make sure that that we have to rightsize make sure that that we have to rightsize make sure that that we have to rightsize it. It's almost like we need to start it. It's almost like we need to start it. It's almost like we need to start with the application and and what we with the application and and what we with the application and and what we would say is poke the pain. like figure would say is poke the pain. like figure would say is poke the pain. like figure out what is it that they're dealing with out what is it that they're dealing with out what is it that they're dealing with and just poke it so that someone goes, and just poke it so that someone goes, and just poke it so that someone goes, "Oh my goodness, it's true." It's like "Oh my goodness, it's true." It's like "Oh my goodness, it's true." It's like the It's like those old info commercials the It's like those old info commercials the It's like those old info commercials where it's like, "Do you have problems where it's like, "Do you have problems where it's like, "Do you have problems flipping an egg?" And like the person's flipping an egg?" And like the person's flipping an egg?" And like the person's flipping them all over the place and flipping them all over the place and flipping them all over the place and it's like, "You know what? I think I it's like, "You know what? I think I it's like, "You know what? I think I have a problem flipping an egg." And and have a problem flipping an egg." And and have a problem flipping an egg." And and the thing is is that by poking that the thing is is that by poking that the thing is is that by poking that pain, the people in the pews go, "You pain, the people in the pews go, "You pain, the people in the pews go, "You know what? That is an issue that I'm know what? That is an issue that I'm know what? That is an issue that I'm dealing with." And then when the pastor dealing with." And then when the pastor dealing with." And then when the pastor says, "So let's look at scripture. Let's says, "So let's look at scripture. Let's says, "So let's look at scripture. Let's figure out how we can solve that."

figure out how we can solve that." figure out how we can solve that." People go, I do have that problem. I do People go, I do have that problem. I do People go, I do have that problem. I do need that. Or to use the analogy of the need that. Or to use the analogy of the need that. Or to use the analogy of the commercial, I do have a problem flipping commercial, I do have a problem flipping commercial, I do have a problem flipping the egg. I need that pan that helps me the egg. I need that pan that helps me the egg. I need that pan that helps me flip an egg. You know, and that's the flip an egg. You know, and that's the flip an egg. You know, and that's the way that that's the way our brains work. way that that's the way our brains work. way that that's the way our brains work. We just need to make sure that we We just need to make sure that we We just need to make sure that we integrate the solution in with the the integrate the solution in with the the integrate the solution in with the the problems. I really like that a lot. So problems. I really like that a lot. So problems. I really like that a lot. So poking the pain because as a So this is poking the pain because as a So this is poking the pain because as a So this is mostly comm directors who listen to our mostly comm directors who listen to our mostly comm directors who listen to our podcast and people in the communication podcast and people in the communication podcast and people in the communication space. Um not all but a lot of them. So space. Um not all but a lot of them. So space. Um not all but a lot of them. So So if you're listening to this then Mark So if you're listening to this then Mark So if you're listening to this then Mark tell us. Okay. So you you know the tell us. Okay. So you you know the tell us. Okay. So you you know the poster kind of poked the pain or the poster kind of poked the pain or the poster kind of poked the pain or the pastor poked the the pain a little bit pastor poked the the pain a little bit pastor poked the the pain a little bit poster uh and and gave us some poster uh and and gave us some poster uh and and gave us some solutions. So as a comms person what do solutions. So as a comms person what do solutions. So as a comms person what do you do with that? you do with that? you do with that? So So So as a comms person we need to advocate as a comms person we need to advocate as a comms person we need to advocate for our audience. So we need to um for our audience. So we need to um for our audience. So we need to um whatever is happening in communications whatever is happening in communications whatever is happening in communications things that you can control and things things that you can control and things things that you can control and things that you can't control. You need to be that you can't control. You need to be that you can't control. You need to be aware of whether the connection has been aware of whether the connection has been aware of whether the connection has been made with the the audience. If if you made with the the audience. If if you made with the the audience. If if you truly love the way that God wants us to truly love the way that God wants us to truly love the way that God wants us to love, Jesus said we'll be known for our love, Jesus said we'll be known for our love, Jesus said we'll be known for our love one towards another. If we truly love one towards another. If we truly love one towards another. If we truly love, then we will be conscious love, then we will be conscious love, then we will be conscious constantly of the pains, the needs, constantly of the pains, the needs, constantly of the pains, the needs, concerns, and goals of the people in our

concerns, and goals of the people in our concerns, and goals of the people in our pews as well as the people in our pews as well as the people in our pews as well as the people in our community. So you need to be really community. So you need to be really community. So you need to be really aware of how does it come across to aware of how does it come across to aware of how does it come across to those people who who are just looking those people who who are just looking those people who who are just looking for a better solution. And if if the for a better solution. And if if the for a better solution. And if if the pastor doesn't necessarily do that, you pastor doesn't necessarily do that, you pastor doesn't necessarily do that, you need to lovingly come alongside of him need to lovingly come alongside of him need to lovingly come alongside of him and say, "I love your application at the and say, "I love your application at the and say, "I love your application at the end of the sermon. I'm scared that end of the sermon. I'm scared that end of the sermon. I'm scared that people will miss it because they've people will miss it because they've people will miss it because they've zoned out because of all the stuff zoned out because of all the stuff zoned out because of all the stuff before it." just to have that before it." just to have that before it." just to have that conversation. If you can't have that conversation. If you can't have that conversation. If you can't have that conversation, then the things that you conversation, then the things that you conversation, then the things that you can control like your social media posts can control like your social media posts can control like your social media posts or your emails, uh make the connection or your emails, uh make the connection or your emails, uh make the connection so that when you take the snippet of the so that when you take the snippet of the so that when you take the snippet of the sermon, make the connection in your post sermon, make the connection in your post sermon, make the connection in your post and then push the video. um and and and then push the video. um and and and then push the video. um and and allow people to understand that this is allow people to understand that this is allow people to understand that this is a pain that you're experiencing and a pain that you're experiencing and a pain that you're experiencing and here's how our pastor was able to solve here's how our pastor was able to solve here's how our pastor was able to solve it using uh God's word.

it using uh God's word. it using uh God's word. >> I love that. So, that is so powerful. If >> I love that. So, that is so powerful. If >> I love that. So, that is so powerful. If we can kind of get in the habit and the we can kind of get in the habit and the we can kind of get in the habit and the the rhythms of doing that every week the rhythms of doing that every week the rhythms of doing that every week would be great, but we understand it's would be great, but we understand it's would be great, but we understand it's probably not every week, but close to probably not every week, but close to probably not every week, but close to it. And what I love about that is it. And what I love about that is it. And what I love about that is marrying that with what our mandate is marrying that with what our mandate is marrying that with what our mandate is as a church. our mandate is to go and as a church. our mandate is to go and as a church. our mandate is to go and create disciples. And so if you think create disciples. And so if you think create disciples. And so if you think about well what at your church what does about well what at your church what does about well what at your church what does a disciple look like? And you're having a disciple look like? And you're having a disciple look like? And you're having these solutions that your pastor is these solutions that your pastor is these solutions that your pastor is bringing to the table to the bringing to the table to the bringing to the table to the conversation to the sermon. You can conversation to the sermon. You can conversation to the sermon. You can bridge those together and out of that bridge those together and out of that bridge those together and out of that you're going to get a lot of fruit you're going to get a lot of fruit you're going to get a lot of fruit because like you said, you can't cause because like you said, you can't cause because like you said, you can't cause people to drink the water. You can give people to drink the water. You can give people to drink the water. You can give them a cup and say this is going to be them a cup and say this is going to be them a cup and say this is going to be really good for you. This is going to really good for you. This is going to really good for you. This is going to help you in your pain. We're poking the help you in your pain. We're poking the help you in your pain. We're poking the pain. You're identifying it. We can't pain. You're identifying it. We can't pain. You're identifying it. We can't solve that for you. You have to solve solve that for you. You have to solve solve that for you. You have to solve that for yourself. Right. But here's the that for yourself. Right. But here's the that for yourself. Right. But here's the ingredients is go do it. Exactly. And ingredients is go do it. Exactly. And ingredients is go do it. Exactly. And and we have to understand what we can and we have to understand what we can and we have to understand what we can control and what we can't control. And control and what we can't control. And control and what we can't control. And and every person any churchcom that is and every person any churchcom that is and every person any churchcom that is listening right now knows what they listening right now knows what they listening right now knows what they can't control. And and what we need to can't control. And and what we need to can't control. And and what we need to figure out is how can we do it better figure out is how can we do it better figure out is how can we do it better with the things that we can control. And with the things that we can control. And with the things that we can control. And with that win that oftenimes will with that win that oftenimes will with that win that oftenimes will happen, uh the pastor will will will happen, uh the pastor will will will happen, uh the pastor will will will listen just a little longer to you when listen just a little longer to you when listen just a little longer to you when you say, "So what if you did this?" Um you say, "So what if you did this?" Um you say, "So what if you did this?" Um and and become uh masters of your trade.

and and become uh masters of your trade. and and become uh masters of your trade. Make sure that you understand uh the Make sure that you understand uh the Make sure that you understand uh the complexities that the pastor is going complexities that the pastor is going complexities that the pastor is going through and and he wants to preach God's through and and he wants to preach God's through and and he wants to preach God's word. We know that God's word will not word. We know that God's word will not word. We know that God's word will not come back void, but it needs to be come back void, but it needs to be come back void, but it needs to be heard. And and the problem is is that heard. And and the problem is is that heard. And and the problem is is that often times um churches are just talking often times um churches are just talking often times um churches are just talking far too much and not concentrating on far too much and not concentrating on far too much and not concentrating on one direct area that the that the church one direct area that the that the church one direct area that the that the church and the congre or the community actually and the congre or the community actually and the congre or the community actually wants to hear. wants to hear. wants to hear. >> Can I Oh, go ahead. Go ahead, Jason. >> Can I Oh, go ahead. Go ahead, Jason. >> Can I Oh, go ahead. Go ahead, Jason. >> I was going to say, how do you know if >> I was going to say, how do you know if >> I was going to say, how do you know if you're winning? you're winning? you're winning? [Music] [Music] [Music] Well, Well, Well, and there's where uh I think all three and there's where uh I think all three and there's where uh I think all three of us could probably talk to this of us could probably talk to this of us could probably talk to this because everyone wants to know what the because everyone wants to know what the because everyone wants to know what the return on investment is, return on investment is, return on investment is, >> whether they're winning, and what metric >> whether they're winning, and what metric >> whether they're winning, and what metric do we use? And that's like a total other do we use? And that's like a total other do we use? And that's like a total other uh you know discussion that we we uh you know discussion that we we uh you know discussion that we we probably as a church as a local church probably as a church as a local church probably as a church as a local church especially if you're in the the second especially if you're in the the second especially if you're in the the second seat like most communications people are seat like most communications people are seat like most communications people are you need to know what metric your pastor you need to know what metric your pastor you need to know what metric your pastor as the person in the in the lead seat of as the person in the in the lead seat of as the person in the in the lead seat of your church. What metric do they your church. What metric do they your church. What metric do they actually uh care about as success? So, actually uh care about as success? So, actually uh care about as success? So, it's a great question and every it's a great question and every it's a great question and every churchcom should probably say to their churchcom should probably say to their churchcom should probably say to their senior pastor, are there a business of senior pastor, are there a business of senior pastor, are there a business of men or somebody who they report to, what

men or somebody who they report to, what men or somebody who they report to, what do you want as a win here? Is it more do you want as a win here? Is it more do you want as a win here? Is it more numbers? Is it more disciplehip? Is it numbers? Is it more disciplehip? Is it numbers? Is it more disciplehip? Is it more whatever it is? And and that's what more whatever it is? And and that's what more whatever it is? And and that's what you need to just constantly be aware of. you need to just constantly be aware of. you need to just constantly be aware of. Um, how do we how do we bring this up to Um, how do we how do we bring this up to Um, how do we how do we bring this up to a point where it is measurable and it is a point where it is measurable and it is a point where it is measurable and it is actually growing? actually growing? actually growing? >> Mark, can I can I get you Sorry, Jason. >> Mark, can I can I get you Sorry, Jason. >> Mark, can I can I get you Sorry, Jason. I I'm dying to focus a little bit more I I'm dying to focus a little bit more I I'm dying to focus a little bit more on this poke the pain thing. And I I'd on this poke the pain thing. And I I'd on this poke the pain thing. And I I'd love for you to zoom out a little bit love for you to zoom out a little bit love for you to zoom out a little bit from the context of the sermon only. And from the context of the sermon only. And from the context of the sermon only. And again, speaking to a church again, speaking to a church again, speaking to a church communications director, I know that communications director, I know that communications director, I know that this is probably right up your alley this is probably right up your alley this is probably right up your alley with the way that you guys work with with the way that you guys work with with the way that you guys work with churches to try to find their thread and churches to try to find their thread and churches to try to find their thread and what they're known for. But as as we what they're known for. But as as we what they're known for. But as as we zoom out and we think about all of our zoom out and we think about all of our zoom out and we think about all of our marketing and communications and digital marketing and communications and digital marketing and communications and digital strategies as a whole, our website, the strategies as a whole, our website, the strategies as a whole, our website, the language that we use, uh our marketing language that we use, uh our marketing language that we use, uh our marketing initiatives, how do you how do you initiatives, how do you how do you initiatives, how do you how do you implement that poke the pain concept in implement that poke the pain concept in implement that poke the pain concept in in in a broader scale? Not just from the in in a broader scale? Not just from the in in a broader scale? Not just from the sermon standpoint, but hey, we're a sermon standpoint, but hey, we're a sermon standpoint, but hey, we're a church that's here to ultimately help church that's here to ultimately help church that's here to ultimately help you solve a problem. Now, the problem we you solve a problem. Now, the problem we you solve a problem. Now, the problem we ultimately want to solve is the one that ultimately want to solve is the one that ultimately want to solve is the one that you're disconnected from God because of you're disconnected from God because of you're disconnected from God because of sin. And we want to see you reconciled sin. And we want to see you reconciled sin. And we want to see you reconciled to God through Jesus, but but that might to God through Jesus, but but that might to God through Jesus, but but that might not be the pain that you're feeling day not be the pain that you're feeling day not be the pain that you're feeling day in and day out, although it's it it's in and day out, although it's it it's in and day out, although it's it it's it's the one that we ultimately want to it's the one that we ultimately want to it's the one that we ultimately want to solve. How do you work with a church and solve. How do you work with a church and solve. How do you work with a church and say, "Poke the pain." What's the pain of say, "Poke the pain." What's the pain of say, "Poke the pain." What's the pain of your community? How do you poke that

your community? How do you poke that your community? How do you poke that pain? How do you make that part of your pain? How do you make that part of your pain? How do you make that part of your bigger messaging as a whole? bigger messaging as a whole? bigger messaging as a whole? Well, first of all, we have to Well, first of all, we have to Well, first of all, we have to understand uh who our audience is and understand uh who our audience is and understand uh who our audience is and and effective communication rises and and effective communication rises and and effective communication rises and falls on how well you know your falls on how well you know your falls on how well you know your audience. But Jesus then calls us to not audience. But Jesus then calls us to not audience. But Jesus then calls us to not just know them but to love them. And so just know them but to love them. And so just know them but to love them. And so we need to have the knowledge. So that's we need to have the knowledge. So that's we need to have the knowledge. So that's usually a demographic study. What we usually a demographic study. What we usually a demographic study. What we would do is we would, you know, create would do is we would, you know, create would do is we would, you know, create where we believe your reach area is, not where we believe your reach area is, not where we believe your reach area is, not because it's what we think, but it's because it's what we think, but it's because it's what we think, but it's where your people are actually coming where your people are actually coming where your people are actually coming from. And then, uh, you know, remove the from. And then, uh, you know, remove the from. And then, uh, you know, remove the outliers, figure out where the main outliers, figure out where the main outliers, figure out where the main clustering is, and then look at that clustering is, and then look at that clustering is, and then look at that awful amount of demographic information awful amount of demographic information awful amount of demographic information that comes out of it, but then put it that comes out of it, but then put it that comes out of it, but then put it through the prism of how can we love through the prism of how can we love through the prism of how can we love these people? How do we fall in love these people? How do we fall in love these people? How do we fall in love with their pain points? And and the joy with their pain points? And and the joy with their pain points? And and the joy of it all is that often times because we of it all is that often times because we of it all is that often times because we come from that reach area, we have the come from that reach area, we have the come from that reach area, we have the same pain points. So the the best same pain points. So the the best same pain points. So the the best connector between a congregation and a connector between a congregation and a connector between a congregation and a community or the pastor and the community or the pastor and the community or the pastor and the community or the church commun um we've gone through a lot of those um we've gone through a lot of those pain points ourselves and scripture has pain points ourselves and scripture has pain points ourselves and scripture has helped us. So if we can make that helped us. So if we can make that helped us. So if we can make that connection, it will connect a whole lot connection, it will connect a whole lot connection, it will connect a whole lot better. Like if So let me just back that better. Like if So let me just back that better. Like if So let me just back that up a little bit. If we make the

up a little bit. If we make the up a little bit. If we make the connection of I know what you're feeling connection of I know what you're feeling connection of I know what you're feeling because I've been there, people will because I've been there, people will because I've been there, people will lean in and if you say, "And here's how lean in and if you say, "And here's how lean in and if you say, "And here's how I was able to overcome that." or here's I was able to overcome that." or here's I was able to overcome that." or here's how I was able to reach the goal that how I was able to reach the goal that how I was able to reach the goal that you're trying to reach and you're not you're trying to reach and you're not you're trying to reach and you're not being successful, but I was successful being successful, but I was successful being successful, but I was successful and here's what scripture says that and here's what scripture says that and here's what scripture says that helped me along that path. They will helped me along that path. They will helped me along that path. They will lean in so much more than if you just lean in so much more than if you just lean in so much more than if you just spew forth scripture and say, "Well, spew forth scripture and say, "Well, spew forth scripture and say, "Well, like if you all follow this, you'll just like if you all follow this, you'll just like if you all follow this, you'll just have a better life." Like they just have a better life." Like they just have a better life." Like they just won't listen to it at all. And I think won't listen to it at all. And I think won't listen to it at all. And I think that um that most times uh we we want to that um that most times uh we we want to that um that most times uh we we want to have this overly religious message first have this overly religious message first have this overly religious message first as a church and and then we wonder why as a church and and then we wonder why as a church and and then we wonder why the community doesn't want to come. It's the community doesn't want to come. It's the community doesn't want to come. It's not like, you know, we understand that not like, you know, we understand that not like, you know, we understand that Jesus is the answer to everything that Jesus is the answer to everything that Jesus is the answer to everything that they're dealing with, but they're not they're dealing with, but they're not they're dealing with, but they're not waking up in the morning, waking up in the morning, waking up in the morning, I need to get ready for life. Oh my I need to get ready for life. Oh my I need to get ready for life. Oh my goodness, if only I had Jesus. And the goodness, if only I had Jesus. And the goodness, if only I had Jesus. And the problem is is that we're we're speaking problem is is that we're we're speaking problem is is that we're we're speaking solutions to people who don't know that solutions to people who don't know that solutions to people who don't know that they need them. So, we need to lean into they need them. So, we need to lean into they need them. So, we need to lean into their pain points first and their felt their pain points first and their felt their pain points first and their felt needs and then give them the solution needs and then give them the solution needs and then give them the solution and they'll listen a whole lot longer.

and they'll listen a whole lot longer. and they'll listen a whole lot longer. >> I love that. I And I do agree with you >> I love that. I And I do agree with you >> I love that. I And I do agree with you 100%. It starts with the person in the 100%. It starts with the person in the 100%. It starts with the person in the lead seat and then you you surround that lead seat and then you you surround that lead seat and then you you surround that with testimonies of other people who are with testimonies of other people who are with testimonies of other people who are just like you who have who share their just like you who have who share their just like you who have who share their experience, share their pain, but then experience, share their pain, but then experience, share their pain, but then they say, "Here's how we got through they say, "Here's how we got through they say, "Here's how we got through that because as I'm watching that, I see that because as I'm watching that, I see that because as I'm watching that, I see the hope. Wait, they were able to get the hope. Wait, they were able to get the hope. Wait, they were able to get through that mess and come out the other through that mess and come out the other through that mess and come out the other end. I want that for my life, too, and end. I want that for my life, too, and end. I want that for my life, too, and my family." Well, in fact, we've added my family." Well, in fact, we've added my family." Well, in fact, we've added to our formula for the very first time to our formula for the very first time to our formula for the very first time ever. always say their name, speak their ever. always say their name, speak their ever. always say their name, speak their pain, solutions to proclaim, pain, solutions to proclaim, pain, solutions to proclaim, and then show the gain. So, we wanted to and then show the gain. So, we wanted to and then show the gain. So, we wanted to keep it as a rhyme, but the show the keep it as a rhyme, but the show the keep it as a rhyme, but the show the gain is our testimonials. So, when gain is our testimonials. So, when gain is our testimonials. So, when people if we can control the story to people if we can control the story to people if we can control the story to because most people can't talk because most people can't talk because most people can't talk succinctly. So, videotape it, edit it, succinctly. So, videotape it, edit it, succinctly. So, videotape it, edit it, make sure that it's set up, that they make sure that it's set up, that they make sure that it's set up, that they establish who they are. So you know what establish who they are. So you know what establish who they are. So you know what as a young parent and then as soon as as a young parent and then as soon as as a young parent and then as soon as they say young parent that's say their they say young parent that's say their they say young parent that's say their name then speak their pain. Oh my name then speak their pain. Oh my name then speak their pain. Oh my goodness, I have always struggled with goodness, I have always struggled with goodness, I have always struggled with whatever it is and then have them whatever it is and then have them whatever it is and then have them actually say, but I found the solution actually say, but I found the solution actually say, but I found the solution and it was through our church ministries and it was through our church ministries and it was through our church ministries that helped me in my disciplehip process that helped me in my disciplehip process that helped me in my disciplehip process that allowed me and then the show the that allowed me and then the show the that allowed me and then the show the gain get them to talk about how how it

gain get them to talk about how how it gain get them to talk about how how it changed their life. the things that they changed their life. the things that they changed their life. the things that they were struggling with, now they've were struggling with, now they've were struggling with, now they've overcome them through the hope of Jesus overcome them through the hope of Jesus overcome them through the hope of Jesus Christ, through the through the Christ, through the through the Christ, through the through the ministries of this church. And if we can ministries of this church. And if we can ministries of this church. And if we can show that and use them effectively, show that and use them effectively, show that and use them effectively, stories will break through so much stories will break through so much stories will break through so much faster than anything that a pastor would faster than anything that a pastor would faster than anything that a pastor would ever say in a sermon. ever say in a sermon. ever say in a sermon. >> Oh, I love that. Well, I I get really >> Oh, I love that. Well, I I get really >> Oh, I love that. Well, I I get really excited to hear just listening to you excited to hear just listening to you excited to hear just listening to you talk because we're going to be together talk because we're going to be together talk because we're going to be together in September. And so if you're listening in September. And so if you're listening in September. And so if you're listening to this, uh, if you don't know, we've to this, uh, if you don't know, we've to this, uh, if you don't know, we've got a church communications conference got a church communications conference got a church communications conference coming up September 17th, 18th, and coming up September 17th, 18th, and coming up September 17th, 18th, and 19th. Mark's going to be there, Bart's 19th. Mark's going to be there, Bart's 19th. Mark's going to be there, Bart's going to be there, I'm going to be going to be there, I'm going to be going to be there, I'm going to be there, and a whole bunch of other there, and a whole bunch of other there, and a whole bunch of other people. And we're going to dive deeper people. And we're going to dive deeper people. And we're going to dive deeper into this. And really what we're the into this. And really what we're the into this. And really what we're the theme of the conference is built with theme of the conference is built with theme of the conference is built with purpose. Everything Mark's saying here purpose. Everything Mark's saying here purpose. Everything Mark's saying here is a strategy. You got to build this is a strategy. You got to build this is a strategy. You got to build this with purpose. If you don't have a with purpose. If you don't have a with purpose. If you don't have a purpose or a strategy, you're kind of purpose or a strategy, you're kind of purpose or a strategy, you're kind of just doing church like most other you're just doing church like most other you're just doing church like most other you're just kind of going week to week to week.

just kind of going week to week to week. just kind of going week to week to week. Oh, the fall's here and then oh, Oh, the fall's here and then oh, Oh, the fall's here and then oh, Christmas is here and then oh, new year, Christmas is here and then oh, new year, Christmas is here and then oh, new year, Easter. You're you're just on this Easter. You're you're just on this Easter. You're you're just on this merrygo round. Build it with purpose. merrygo round. Build it with purpose. merrygo round. Build it with purpose. Mark, tell us a little bit about uh how Mark, tell us a little bit about uh how Mark, tell us a little bit about uh how excited you are, what you're looking excited you are, what you're looking excited you are, what you're looking forward to in the coming to the to be a forward to in the coming to the to be a forward to in the coming to the to be a keynote speaker at the conference. You keynote speaker at the conference. You keynote speaker at the conference. You know, anytime that I get into a room know, anytime that I get into a room know, anytime that I get into a room with people who are like-minded, we're with people who are like-minded, we're with people who are like-minded, we're all trying to figure this out. Church all trying to figure this out. Church all trying to figure this out. Church communications changing so much. There's communications changing so much. There's communications changing so much. There's so many changes that are happening. In so many changes that are happening. In so many changes that are happening. In fact, fact, fact, with the advent of AI, I know that with the advent of AI, I know that with the advent of AI, I know that that's going to kind of get woven that's going to kind of get woven that's going to kind of get woven through everything that we talk about, through everything that we talk about, through everything that we talk about, but ultimately we need to figure out but ultimately we need to figure out but ultimately we need to figure out what is that framework that our church what is that framework that our church what is that framework that our church is known for. what is it that will is known for. what is it that will is known for. what is it that will actually bring them through the doors? actually bring them through the doors? actually bring them through the doors? Because we all want to have whatever Because we all want to have whatever Because we all want to have whatever that metric is, we want to help increase that metric is, we want to help increase that metric is, we want to help increase that and and have success. So, uh, one that and and have success. So, uh, one that and and have success. So, uh, one of the sessions that I'm going to be of the sessions that I'm going to be of the sessions that I'm going to be speaking on, uh, fortunately, I looked speaking on, uh, fortunately, I looked speaking on, uh, fortunately, I looked it up beforehand because it's around the it up beforehand because it's around the it up beforehand because it's around the corner, but sometimes don't always corner, but sometimes don't always corner, but sometimes don't always remember if they don't know you, they remember if they don't know you, they remember if they don't know you, they won't come. and and how do we as won't come. and and how do we as won't come. and and how do we as communicators figure out what they do communicators figure out what they do communicators figure out what they do need to know? How do we tell the right need to know? How do we tell the right need to know? How do we tell the right stories so that everything that we're stories so that everything that we're stories so that everything that we're doing isn't just a oneoff that's gone doing isn't just a oneoff that's gone doing isn't just a oneoff that's gone done and gone. Instead, let's let's done and gone. Instead, let's let's done and gone. Instead, let's let's figure out how do we create the content

figure out how do we create the content figure out how do we create the content that builds and invests on each other so that builds and invests on each other so that builds and invests on each other so that the the community over time will that the the community over time will that the the community over time will actually know who you are and say, you actually know who you are and say, you actually know who you are and say, you know, I didn't expect to get that from a know, I didn't expect to get that from a know, I didn't expect to get that from a church, but that's what I need. And church, but that's what I need. And church, but that's what I need. And that's where evangelism kicks in, that that's where evangelism kicks in, that that's where evangelism kicks in, that we can have them actually come in, we can have them actually come in, we can have them actually come in, share them with them some solution that share them with them some solution that share them with them some solution that will actually lead to the gospel. will actually lead to the gospel. will actually lead to the gospel. >> Yeah, I'm really I'm really I'm really >> Yeah, I'm really I'm really I'm really >> Yeah, I'm really I'm really I'm really excited about this. We we've actually excited about this. We we've actually excited about this. We we've actually broken it down into like three different broken it down into like three different broken it down into like three different sort of sections. Um, and and this will sort of sections. Um, and and this will sort of sections. Um, and and this will make a lot of sense when you're at the make a lot of sense when you're at the make a lot of sense when you're at the conference, but you know, building conference, but you know, building conference, but you know, building awareness, awareness of awareness, awareness of awareness, awareness of people in your community know you exist people in your community know you exist people in your community know you exist because there's a building there, but because there's a building there, but because there's a building there, but they don't know you at all. They just they don't know you at all. They just they don't know you at all. They just know there's a building right there with know there's a building right there with know there's a building right there with your name on it. Perhaps they remember your name on it. Perhaps they remember your name on it. Perhaps they remember your name. They know nothing else. And your name. They know nothing else. And your name. They know nothing else. And so we want to build a better awareness so we want to build a better awareness so we want to build a better awareness strategy just thing that you're saying strategy just thing that you're saying strategy just thing that you're saying that when they realize that they're in a that when they realize that they're in a that when they realize that they're in a situation in a felty type of situation situation in a felty type of situation situation in a felty type of situation they maybe and this is the Holy Spirit's they maybe and this is the Holy Spirit's they maybe and this is the Holy Spirit's got to work with us on this one they got to work with us on this one they got to work with us on this one they will remember you go oh that church will remember you go oh that church will remember you go oh that church right it's exactly so how do you how do right it's exactly so how do you how do right it's exactly so how do you how do you solve that for them and help them you solve that for them and help them you solve that for them and help them build a So we're going to talk about build a So we're going to talk about build a So we're going to talk about awareness and that moves them to awareness and that moves them to awareness and that moves them to actually attending your church which is actually attending your church which is actually attending your church which is a whole another section that leads to a whole another section that leads to a whole another section that leads to action. A whole because your whole point action. A whole because your whole point action. A whole because your whole point is to love them. Jesus said, "Go a new is to love them. Jesus said, "Go a new is to love them. Jesus said, "Go a new command I give you, love one another and

command I give you, love one another and command I give you, love one another and then go make new disciples." Pretty then go make new disciples." Pretty then go make new disciples." Pretty simple stuff, but we've complicated the simple stuff, but we've complicated the simple stuff, but we've complicated the crud out of it, right? As churches. crud out of it, right? As churches. crud out of it, right? As churches. >> Yes. And and most churches are invisible >> Yes. And and most churches are invisible >> Yes. And and most churches are invisible to their communities, not because of to their communities, not because of to their communities, not because of poor ministry, but it's be because of poor ministry, but it's be because of poor ministry, but it's be because of poor messaging. And so let's figure out poor messaging. And so let's figure out poor messaging. And so let's figure out how do we how do we re in on our thread how do we how do we re in on our thread how do we how do we re in on our thread and then make sure that that messaging and then make sure that that messaging and then make sure that that messaging is is done with a strategy in mind. is is done with a strategy in mind. is is done with a strategy in mind. >> Oh, I'm I'm I'm so excited. I this is >> Oh, I'm I'm I'm so excited. I this is >> Oh, I'm I'm I'm so excited. I this is going to I I I'm really really pumped going to I I I'm really really pumped going to I I I'm really really pumped because I look at in this dawn dawning because I look at in this dawn dawning because I look at in this dawn dawning era of AI, AI isn't solving problems. era of AI, AI isn't solving problems. era of AI, AI isn't solving problems. It's just going to help you maybe do a It's just going to help you maybe do a It's just going to help you maybe do a little more efficiently. you still got a little more efficiently. you still got a little more efficiently. you still got a problem and that's what you're going to problem and that's what you're going to problem and that's what you're going to get a solution or strategy through the get a solution or strategy through the get a solution or strategy through the conference. And so if you don't have conference. And so if you don't have conference. And so if you don't have that, you got to sign up. You can go to that, you got to sign up. You can go to that, you got to sign up. You can go to churchcommunications.com, churchcommunications.com, churchcommunications.com, register today. It's again September register today. It's again September register today. It's again September 17th, 18th, and 19th, and we're going to 17th, 18th, and 19th, and we're going to 17th, 18th, and 19th, and we're going to be in Chicago. That'll be a fun time to be in Chicago. That'll be a fun time to be in Chicago. That'll be a fun time to be in Chicago. be in Chicago. be in Chicago. >> Yeah. And those of you who are listening >> Yeah. And those of you who are listening >> Yeah. And those of you who are listening and maybe the September conference in and maybe the September conference in and maybe the September conference in Chicago is not uh something that you are Chicago is not uh something that you are Chicago is not uh something that you are able to do. We also have some road shows able to do. We also have some road shows able to do. We also have some road shows coming up this fall in San Antonio and coming up this fall in San Antonio and coming up this fall in San Antonio and Houston and where else Jason?

Houston and where else Jason? Houston and where else Jason? >> We're going to be in LA. Um and yeah, by >> We're going to be in LA. Um and yeah, by >> We're going to be in LA. Um and yeah, by the time this drops, we'll have already the time this drops, we'll have already the time this drops, we'll have already been in Columbus, Ohio and up in the been in Columbus, Ohio and up in the been in Columbus, Ohio and up in the Detroit area. So that happens this Detroit area. So that happens this Detroit area. So that happens this month. month. month. >> Yeah. So click over to >> Yeah. So click over to >> Yeah. So click over to churchcommunications.com churchcommunications.com churchcommunications.com and you can find information about the and you can find information about the and you can find information about the conference as well as the road show. conference as well as the road show. conference as well as the road show. Mark, any parting shots before we land Mark, any parting shots before we land Mark, any parting shots before we land this plane? this plane? this plane? >> Oh my goodness. So, um, we're doing an >> Oh my goodness. So, um, we're doing an >> Oh my goodness. So, um, we're doing an eternal work, eternal work, eternal work, but don't do it in a way that your but don't do it in a way that your but don't do it in a way that your message gets lost. I I mean, people are message gets lost. I I mean, people are message gets lost. I I mean, people are searching for something that actually searching for something that actually searching for something that actually works, that better solution. We need to works, that better solution. We need to works, that better solution. We need to be known for delivering it. It it's, be known for delivering it. It it's, be known for delivering it. It it's, you know, it's one of those crazy things you know, it's one of those crazy things you know, it's one of those crazy things that we need to solve what their felt that we need to solve what their felt that we need to solve what their felt needs are and then make them realize needs are and then make them realize needs are and then make them realize that the gospel is the ultimate better that the gospel is the ultimate better that the gospel is the ultimate better solution. That's that's what we're solution. That's that's what we're solution. That's that's what we're called to do. So, I I I've dedicated my called to do. So, I I I've dedicated my called to do. So, I I I've dedicated my life to it. I know you guys have life to it. I know you guys have life to it. I know you guys have dedicated your life to it. We want to dedicated your life to it. We want to dedicated your life to it. We want to help you and and I would certainly love help you and and I would certainly love help you and and I would certainly love to meet you in Chicago coming up here at to meet you in Chicago coming up here at to meet you in Chicago coming up here at this conference.

this conference. this conference. >> If you're a pastor, go you a parting >> If you're a pastor, go you a parting >> If you're a pastor, go you a parting shot, too. Okay, Jason. shot, too. Okay, Jason. shot, too. Okay, Jason. >> I do. I do. I do. And it's this we're >> I do. I do. I do. And it's this we're >> I do. I do. I do. And it's this we're kind of talking about, you know, really kind of talking about, you know, really kind of talking about, you know, really Mark's just he's just laying it on kind Mark's just he's just laying it on kind Mark's just he's just laying it on kind of strategy. You got to be able to, you of strategy. You got to be able to, you of strategy. You got to be able to, you know, speak that you he he just know, speak that you he he just know, speak that you he he just mentioned that. What I want to talk my mentioned that. What I want to talk my mentioned that. What I want to talk my parting shot is our math parting shot is our math parting shot is our math doesn't equal God's math. Our math is 1 doesn't equal God's math. Our math is 1 doesn't equal God's math. Our math is 1 plus 1 equals two. God's math is no, you plus 1 equals two. God's math is no, you plus 1 equals two. God's math is no, you just plant a seed and watch me do what I just plant a seed and watch me do what I just plant a seed and watch me do what I do. And for some reason, you know, when do. And for some reason, you know, when do. And for some reason, you know, when we think about um yeah, if we invest we think about um yeah, if we invest we think about um yeah, if we invest this, we're going to get this return. this, we're going to get this return. this, we're going to get this return. No, no, no, no. If God's in it, that No, no, no, no. If God's in it, that No, no, no, no. If God's in it, that returns could be like abundantly more returns could be like abundantly more returns could be like abundantly more than we could possibly imagine. And so than we could possibly imagine. And so than we could possibly imagine. And so that so you can't do this void of the that so you can't do this void of the that so you can't do this void of the Holy Spirit because the is when God's in Holy Spirit because the is when God's in Holy Spirit because the is when God's in your strategy, he's the one who your strategy, he's the one who your strategy, he's the one who multiplies it. We don't. And so that my multiplies it. We don't. And so that my multiplies it. We don't. And so that my parting shot is don't think about math parting shot is don't think about math parting shot is don't think about math in terms if I do this, I'll get this. in terms if I do this, I'll get this. in terms if I do this, I'll get this. Uh-uh. It's not our math. It's his math. Uh-uh. It's not our math. It's his math. Uh-uh. It's not our math. It's his math. Completely different mathematical Completely different mathematical Completely different mathematical system.

system. system. >> Well said. >> Well said. >> Well said. >> Thank you for that, Jason. Uh, for those >> Thank you for that, Jason. Uh, for those >> Thank you for that, Jason. Uh, for those of you who've made it all the way to the of you who've made it all the way to the of you who've made it all the way to the end of this podcast episode, hope it's end of this podcast episode, hope it's end of this podcast episode, hope it's been enlightening for you. Um, if you been enlightening for you. Um, if you been enlightening for you. Um, if you haven't ever subscribed, wherever you haven't ever subscribed, wherever you haven't ever subscribed, wherever you listen to your favorite podcast, please listen to your favorite podcast, please listen to your favorite podcast, please make sure that you do that. Uh, we're make sure that you do that. Uh, we're make sure that you do that. Uh, we're not always as consistent as we would not always as consistent as we would not always as consistent as we would like to be in getting these episodes like to be in getting these episodes like to be in getting these episodes dropped. So, at least if you subscribe, dropped. So, at least if you subscribe, dropped. So, at least if you subscribe, when we do drop an episode, it will get when we do drop an episode, it will get when we do drop an episode, it will get delivered to your mobile device. You delivered to your mobile device. You delivered to your mobile device. You don't have to think about it. If you're don't have to think about it. If you're don't have to think about it. If you're watching on our YouTube channel, make watching on our YouTube channel, make watching on our YouTube channel, make sure that you subscribe there. And, uh, sure that you subscribe there. And, uh, sure that you subscribe there. And, uh, if you haven't ever left us a rating or if you haven't ever left us a rating or if you haven't ever left us a rating or a review, please do that. Uh we'll put a review, please do that. Uh we'll put a review, please do that. Uh we'll put all the information about uh the all the information about uh the all the information about uh the conference uh in the show notes here as conference uh in the show notes here as conference uh in the show notes here as well as a discount code. I'll throw a well as a discount code. I'll throw a well as a discount code. I'll throw a discount code in there. So for those of discount code in there. So for those of discount code in there. So for those of you who are podcast listeners, we'll you who are podcast listeners, we'll you who are podcast listeners, we'll give you a little bit of a little bit of give you a little bit of a little bit of give you a little bit of a little bit of a of a of a discount uh to make it a a of a of a discount uh to make it a a of a of a discount uh to make it a little more affordable for you and your little more affordable for you and your little more affordable for you and your team. And uh we'll also have all of team. And uh we'll also have all of team. And uh we'll also have all of Mark's contact information and his team Mark's contact information and his team Mark's contact information and his team at Be Known for Something. Uh he's very at Be Known for Something. Uh he's very at Be Known for Something. Uh he's very active on social media, so we'll put all active on social media, so we'll put all active on social media, so we'll put all of his socials there. Uh, you can check of his socials there. Uh, you can check of his socials there. Uh, you can check out his website, follow him on LinkedIn out his website, follow him on LinkedIn out his website, follow him on LinkedIn or or X or Facebook or Insta, anywhere. or or X or Facebook or Insta, anywhere. or or X or Facebook or Insta, anywhere. I mean, the man is everywhere.

I mean, the man is everywhere. I mean, the man is everywhere. >> I even I even have Pinterest. If you >> I even I even have Pinterest. If you >> I even I even have Pinterest. If you want to if you want to follow my boards want to if you want to follow my boards want to if you want to follow my boards on Pinterest, I you can see some really on Pinterest, I you can see some really on Pinterest, I you can see some really cool designs. cool designs. cool designs. >> All right. I'll be working on some >> All right. I'll be working on some >> All right. I'll be working on some Pinterest jokes for the conference in Pinterest jokes for the conference in Pinterest jokes for the conference in Chicago. Well, thanks again on behalf of Chicago. Well, thanks again on behalf of Chicago. Well, thanks again on behalf of Mark and Jason. I'm Bart Blair. Thanks Mark and Jason. I'm Bart Blair. Thanks Mark and Jason. I'm Bart Blair. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the for tuning in to another episode of the for tuning in to another episode of the Missional Marketing Podcast.